MMA Fighting - The MMA Hour - Episode 197

Episode Date: August 25, 2014

Featuring Glover Teixeira, Herb Dean, Joseph Benavidez, Joe Warren, Malki Kawa, John Hackleman, and Dave Meltzer. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Labor Day. What Labor Day? We're here. We don't take days off. We can't take a day off. There's a new UFC lightweight champion. His name is Anthony Pedison. Let's take a look at the champion's mantle behind me.

As you can see, there he is. There's a new king in town. King of Milwaukee is now the king of the U.S. 155ers. And as you can see, Benson is on the ground. Injured arm and all. Great job there by New York, Rick. It was a great week for the Ultimate Fighting Championship. Two events. I went from New York to Philadelphia to Indianapolis, a couple days there. Indianapolis to Atlanta, to Milwaukee. A few days there with a bunch of bikers. And now here we are back in New York City for the MMA are presented by our good friends at Fox Sports One.

They're back on the team. They liked us so much that they are back. And speaking of Fox Sports One, a huge night coming up in just a couple of nights. Wednesday night for Fox Sports One for the UFC. It all begins with UFC Fight Night. A great card headline by Glover Tashire versus Ryan Bader. Joseph Benavides versus Jucierge for Miga. And don't forget, this one New York Rick has been buzzing about since it was announced.

Hanaldo Jacques Jesusa versus Yushina Okami Now that action kicks off It is 7 to 10 p.m. Eastern Also the prelims are also going on on Fox Sports Once you could sit back and relax There's a pre-fight show at 5 o'clock Then you can watch

The prelims from 6 to 7 No, pre-fight show at 4 o'clock Prelims from 5 to 7, 7 to 10 Main Card And then beginning at 10 p.m. Eastern It is the debut of the 18 season of the Ultimate Fighter to the Ultimate Fighter has come to Fox Sports One, my friends. Of course, you know by now the first ever co-ed cast, Rhonda Rousey versus Misha Tate.

That's the coaches. And we've got some female bantam weights, some male bantam weights. And I got to tell you, I saw the first episode a couple weeks ago. And by now, you know, if you've watched a show long enough, you know that I'm not, I've been a little sour on the Ultimate Fighter, but I was captivated for the first, for the first episode, two hours straight, the fights to get into the house. The great thing is we know a lot about these fighters, in particular the female fighters, names that we know about, are going to be fighting to be into the house. So it's one that I'm really looking forward to.

It kicks off 10 p.m. Eastern this Wednesday on Fox Sports 1. Do not miss it. We'll be talking about that a little later on in the show. We appreciate them being a part of the show once again. Okay, so who is joining us this week? Well, in the third hour, we want to hear from you. Hit us up using the hashtag the MMA hour. Leave questions in the post below. What do you want to talk about? UFC 164, Anthony Pettis submitting Benson in the first round. You want to talk about Frank Mear losing to Josh Barnett controversially, was it? We'll talk about it. How about Chad Mendez?

How about Dustin? How about Carlos Condit? It feels like that was 10 years ago. But he won on Wednesday against Martin Catman, Kelvin Gasolum, looking very good. Or if you want to talk about Wednesday's show, Ultimate Fighter, just hit us up. Also, at around 305, we'll be talking to Malkikawa, the manager to the stars. He had a busy week last week, manager to the likes of... Carlos Condit, Clay Grida, Frank Meier, Benson.

Saturday wasn't a great night for him, but we'll talk to him about all those things and other things. Now, Herb Dean was the referee for the main event, and it was an interesting one because Pettus pretty much ended the fight. Heard the verbal tap stopped, and three seconds later, the crowd realized what had just happened. Herb Dean was there. We're going to talk to him about that and a lot of other things. Bellator returns on Friday, and Joe Warren is back in action. Joe Warren, of course, was on the 4th. Fightmaster's show. He faces Nick Kirk on Friday, Belator 98, the first round of their bantamweight tournament.

So we'll talk to Joe Warren, the baddest man on the planet, one of the more colorful characters on the Belator roster. Joseph Benevarez, I just spoke about him. He'll be facing Jucierge Formiga on Wednesday, a very important 125-pound bout. He'll be joining us from Bello Horizanch at around 205. That's in Brazil, by the way. Glover Tshara, he'll also be joining us at around 145, talk about his fight against Ryan Bader and a potential title shot hanging in the air over there in Brazil. And then his longtime coach and the coach to likes of Cort McGee, Stephen Seiler, and of course, a guy by the name of Chuck Liddell, John Hackleman. I've wanted to have John Hackerman on the show for a long time. He'll be joining us at 125. But first, let us go to the phone.

No, let us go to the Skype machine and welcome in the veteran. MMA journalist, the OG, as I like to call me, godfather of mixed martial arts journalism and professional wrestling, of course. Dave Meltzer of the Wrestling Observer Newsletter and of course MMAfighting.com. Dave, how are you? I'm good. How are you doing, Ariel? I'll be quick.

I want to make mention that the Bellator show is Saturday this week. It's Friday every other week. Oh, really? Yeah. I actually just made my plans because I wanted to do something on Saturday night. And then I realized that, in fact, I'm watching Bellator Saturday night. So there you go. Why are they doing that?

I think it's because it's the finals of the Fightmaster, and historically on Spike, the finals have always been on Saturday night. That's the only answer I can give because, yeah, it's a Friday night thing every week except for week one when it's Saturday. You would think that you would want to kick off the new season on the night that you run constantly, but that is not the case. Very confusing. Since we're talking about it, let's get into that off the top here, even though obviously the bigger story was 164. Fightmaster. Disaster? We'll come back. How do you label Fightmaster, given the ratings? I mean, because they own the company, I think there's a chance that will come back. If it was any other show, no, it wouldn't. The ratings were, yeah, borderline disaster. The early numbers were bad. They had a couple of weeks. I think that by second, third, you know, the couple of weeks early when they were having the fighters picked the coaches.

I think that was really good. The first episode came off. week, I mean, in the numbers, but I think it was very well critically acclaimed and the word of mouth was really strong and they replayed a bunch of times. So weeks two and three did well and it looked like it was growing, but then when it went to the, what I would call the ultimate fighter format where you just had the fights and less in-house drama, the ratings nose dived. And, you know, eventually they had to move it to Thursday. They moved it out of prime time. they used to show a lot of replays of it early in the season, you know, to get, you know, in prime time. And they pulled those because it was hurting the prime time average of the station. Because, you know, Spike average is about a million viewers, 900,000 viewers in prime time.

It's not a bad number. And when you've got a show that's delivering, you know, 450, you want to get it out of prime time, especially at first run. So I don't know that there won't be a second season, but I would be, it wouldn't shock me that there's not. And if it was, like I said, if they didn't own the company, I would say almost 100% there wouldn't be a second season. In your opinion, is the problem, the format, the lack of stars, lack of promotion, the fact that they're fighting in a tournament to get into a tournament, what do you think is the issue? Or is it really just that the ultimate fighter is the ultimate fighter, this resembles the ultimate fighter a little too much. And fans have enough ultimate fighting, quote-unquote, reality shows out there where they don't want another one. I think all the above, but I mean, the two key things I think is number one.

I think there's so much MMA on television with stars fighting that watching fights with people that you don't know is not very enticing. And the idea of an MMA reality show, it's, you know, I don't think, you know, even Ultimate Fighter itself is a struggle now. I think the people really are burned out on the idea in this country of, you know, those fights. because I think part of it is if Ultimate Fighter had led in recent years to the guy's who wins Ultimate Fighter comes in and within two, three fights ends up in a championship position or you get some Forrest Griffin's or, you know,

people like in the early years that walked out of that thing, Bissing, you know, they came in the stars, I think that there would be some momentum to the thing, but now when you've had your, your Court McGee's, and it's no knock on Court McGee's a good fire, and he'd a great fight the other night. Yeah. But he's not a big star.

He didn't walk in. And so it's kind of like you're watching a bunch of unknowns that who knows if they'll ever do anything. And we've got so much television anyway that I think that that hurt. And then when you get rid of it's Bell to our secondary promotion doing the same thing, ultimately the viewers decided. And because, again, when I watch Fightmaster, when I watch most episodes, I liked it. And I really liked the first three. But, you know, once you got in episode four, I could see, I could really see it's like, you know,

this is too much like Ultimate Fighter. and they remove the in-house drama. So it's just guys that, you know, training for a fight. But in the end, it's unknown fighters in an empty building with no announcing. And we can watch known fighters in a full building with announcing every week. So what's the, you know, your audience is very limited. Okay, let's talk about the big news over the weekend. Of course, Anthony Pettis is the new UFC lightweight champion.

A great moment on many different levels. But I want to get your story. How did you react when you saw this? because I was there in the arena, and honestly, there was like a three-second delay before the crowd actually realized what had happened. What was your take on the whole situation, the verbal tap? Well, obviously, we couldn't hear it, and obviously we didn't see a tap, but at the same time, I could see that Henderson was in trouble.

But, I mean, you know, the thing on it, which I guess would be strange is, you know, there's some guys, you know, and I would say like 85% of the guys in that situation, you're kind of thinking, uh-oh, he's in trouble, it's over. And with Benson Henderson, because I've seen him in, you know, in all these fights, It's 30 different submissions, and he always gets out. I was really not thinking that this was going to end it. It was just like, you know, Benson never taps. He always gets out of it.

And so when it ended like that, it was, I would say, two to three seconds, probably two seconds where it was like, did something happen? I didn't see a tap. And it was like, yeah, you know, because it was Benson and it was like, when he was in there, I didn't, you know, it's like I saw. it was a good arm bar, I just never believed that he was going to tap to it. So, yeah. You could tell Dana White is very high on Pettus, talks about his look.

Like sometimes he lets us come into his little promoter world. Doesn't like to talk about this stuff often, but you could tell he's very high on the prospect of Pettus being a legitimate star. Do you think he can be a GSP type of draw with his personality, with his look, with, of course, what he does in the cage? Can he take the lightweight division into a terrorist? where it's starting to become a pay-per-view draw, because let's be honest, it hasn't been that for a very long time.

Yeah, big question. I think that, you know, to be a GSP, you don't just be a good-looking guy and win a championship, and you're a GSP. I mean, it takes time. And in that division, it's like for me to go and assume that he's going to now reel off, you know, five more first-round knockouts.

And if he does, yes, he will be, especially if he's got good, solid contenders coming up. you know, you got to watch it play out how long he's going to retain the title. I mean, he's looked great his last, I guess, what's been three fights now. Yeah. Which really looked like a killer. So, you know, the potential's there. But it is within any champion, I think.

I think it was really good for, it was really good that it happened in Milwaukee, I think, for him. Because I kind of wrote in the story today, the, I feel that like there are some things in every city. And I'm not talking about MMA, but in sports in every city that people remember forever. And even though it wasn't like it was a full house or anything like that, I think that the idea of this guy winning in his hometown is going to be like one of those sports moments in that city that the people remember. Because, you know, it's, it's, things like that don't happen in Milwaukee all the time. I know you weren't there, but are you surprised there wasn't a full house? Because I think, you know, I was expecting. It's a hometown guy rematch,

big weekend. Of course, there was a lot going on with all the Harley-Davidson. and stuff, but are you surprised by, you know, I don't know if they saw it on, you saw it on TV, but the cheap seats were empty. It wasn't, it wasn't so much the expensive seats, the upper deck was empty. Did that surprise you? And given the gate as well, it was okay, but it wasn't anything to really write home about, right? I didn't know the makeup of the crowd. I knew, what I knew is, is that I didn't know the advance, which when I don't know the advance, I always think that that's trouble. But if you had told me the diner, I mean, I mean, so I was not expecting a full house, but I thought that like when it was over,

I was kind of disappointed in the sense that, I mean, what's more perfect than a hometown guy going for a championship and having a very legitimate shot at winning? I mean, he was, you know, I mean, I don't know what the odds were on the day of the show, but I mean, I know that, you know, all the way going through, I thought this was a, I thought this was a very tough fight to pick, you know, more than most. But, you know, he certainly had a chance and I did pick him to win. And, you know, what's, you know, like I said, you know, what's better than a guy in his hometown who started his career in his hometown,

who still lives in his hometown, still trains in his hometown. It's not like he left it from Vegas or anything like that, going for the World Championship. And yeah, so in that sense, I've had a couple of people from Milwaukee give me reasons. One said that they thought that the pricing structure was too expensive, but if you're telling me that the cheap seats are the ones that weren't full, then that's not the answer. And the other one was that there was so much going on with the Harley-Davidson weekend

that, you know, that that hurt it actually. So I don't know. I don't live there. But I was like you, I thought with that dynamic, that dynamic should pretty much fill a building, I would think. And what was interesting about the Harley Davidson crowd, it was a very old crowd. It was like a 50, 60-year-old crowd.

So maybe going into it, they thought, all right, this crowd will bleed into the event on Saturday night, but really it didn't seem like your typical UFC crowd. Now, you talked about the contenders, and what's always exciting when there's a new, champion. All of a sudden, you have a long list of contenders because he hasn't gone through everyone. You got guys like T.J. Grant. Josh Thompson, of course, Gilbert is still there, Gilbert Melendez. And then there's the big super fight. He asked for it after the fight.

Anthony Pettis versus Jose Aldo. They're going back and forth. If you're Joe Silva, what do you do with Anthony Pettis next? I think, you know, I think we have to wait for the knee because I think if he's okay and he can fight in like, say, four months, I go with Aldo. I think that's the biggest fight. It's the most intriguing fight. But I mean, if he's going to be on the shelf for like nine months. I think at that point, you know, you're going to have so many contenders backlogged. And Aldo's going to have to fight other people. So who knows, you know, if Aldo would even be, you know, still champion.

So then you, I would say play it by, you know, play it by ear and then go with, again, I guess Grant, because he was the one who was going to get this shot before he got hurt. I think he's sort of at the top of the line. If Melendez goes and just destroys Sanchez or if Tom, you know, I think maybe then at that point coming out of it, you see. see who has the most momentum. But if Pettus is okay, I say Aldo. So if you do Pettus versus Aldo, do you make it for a title,

or do you just make it maybe a 150-pound superfight and they both keep their belts afterwards? As far as the weight goes, I would, in a best-case scenario, I think the key is asking Aldo. Is Aldo interested in that lightweight title? If he is, I would say 155 for the lightweight title. because, I mean, I think that he's proven he's a good enough fighter to where he can, you know, get it. And if he can beat Pettus, obviously he's a very worthy 155-pound champion.

And then if he, you know, then I guess you would have him vacate 145 at that point. If he's not interested in that, yeah, you could do it at 150. That would be fair. I wouldn't have Pettus going in challenge for the 145 title now. I think that's, that doesn't make any sense. Does it hurt the featherweight division to have Aldo vacate it? A little bit. Yeah, but I mean, he's only vacating if he wins the title.

Right. So then it, you know, so I don't think it hurts the division that much because it almost says that, hey, look, the guy who won this belt was good enough to win that other belt. And, and again, there's a lot of really good featherweights out there that, you know, I mean, Chad Mendez, Sir, you know, I watched it, when we watched him again this weekend, Chad Mendez is a guy who really could be like a superstar if there was no Aldo. Because I think if there was no Aldo, he probably would have been champion, what, 18 months, two years ago, and had run all of these big knockout wins in a row in championship matches instead of in, you know, so-called like number one contender matches.

So, you know, you've got him, and Cub Swanson has got a nice following, and, you know, I mean, his fights have been really entertaining. So, you know, there's, Ramos, obviously, already deserves a championship match. So there's very worthy guys in that division. you know, if, like, if we go in the thing where Aldo goes and actually beats Pettis, which is, which, you know, if that happens, you know, you've got worthy champions and, you know, worthy potential champions and very worthy challenges in that division anyway. Now that the Benson-Henderson lightweight title reign, at least his first one, is over, you look back on it from the controversial win over Edgar in Japan, the controversial rematch,

the dominant win over Nate Diaz, the recent controversial win over Gilbert Melendez. I think history will treat Benson-Henderson lightweight champion. How will people view that? Hopefully pretty good. I think that they should view it as a guy who was skilled in all areas, great stamina, and was able to pull out very close fights, which is a talent, which is a talent. I, you know, honestly, I did think Edgar won the second, not the first. And I, you know, I guess I thought that Gilbert Melendez won that match too, but that was, I think

that was in because people were pretty split on that and I sensed them maybe more for um for a benson but um you know he gave you great fights it's that's that's what i would say and he was a very good champion i was surprised he lost the way he did and he's always been an exciting fighter i mean dating back to the wec days with seroni and the other pedis fight and all the way through so i think that you know he should be you know respected as a a very very worthy uh champion who's had a knack for exciting fights and give you a lot of thrills. One of the more competitive guys in MMA, I'm looking forward to seeing him return. Now, what did you think of the stoppage in the Barnett-Mere fight, good or bad?

I mean, I thought it was slightly early. I wasn't outraged by it or anything like that. And I have been criticized by people for even saying slightly early. But, you know, watching it, I would say I think 95% that MIR wasn't going to get out of that jam and it was probably only a few seconds from a, I mean, very few seconds from a legitimate stoppage. So it wasn't an outrageous one. I would like to have seen, you know, again,

I like to see the guy get the chance to get out of it, even if the odds are against it. And, you know, Mir was right in the sense that, you know, his fight with, his fight with Lesnar and his fight with Nogara, both could have been stopped, and history would view him very differently if both of those things had happened, the first fight with Lesnar. And also, what was the other one?

the Lesnar Shane Carwin fight for the most famous one. I mean, so we've seen situations like this where the guy, many, many times where a guy in that situation not only gets out of it but actually turns around and wins. So I'd have liked for him to have gotten that chance. But I wasn't outraged by it, but yes, I thought it was a little early. Not to mention very recently Travis Brown and Alistair Overim. Now, what would you do with Barnett? because, you know, he wasn't in a, you know, some kind of war.

He's healthy. And I know there's a title fight happening October 19th in Houston. I'd like to see them do maybe on that 20th anniversary show, which is lacking some star power right now. Of course, at the top, it's good. But you'd think they want to stack the deck. Maybe Verdume versus Barnett on that show to crown the number one contender. Verdoom has just been too inactive, in my opinion.

What do you think? Like it. Like it. I think, you know, and I guess you're right in the sense, that or or something with Travis Brown. But yeah, I mean, Verdun, my guess is the top contender. I mean, the thing with Barnett is he did lose to Cormier

and he did lose every round of that fight. So I hate to move him into that championship picture ahead of Travis Brown, whose only loss was in a match where his knee blew out. But he really did look good in this fight. So I do like to see, I'd like to see him get one more big win. And one more big win, yeah, he'd be in that picture.

And no, I wouldn't be opposed to that fight at all. Now, finally, let's end on this, Dave, because on Wednesday, it's UFC Fight Night 28. It's in Brazil, it's headline by Glover Tosherr versus Ryan Bader. That caps off a stretch of seven days, three UFC events. And, of course, later on, it's the debut of the Ultimate Fighter on Fox Sports One. Given the ratings last Wednesday, given what we saw on Saturday, and then, of course, we're going to see something happen on Wednesday, and we'll get maybe a better sense of what the ratings,

at least initially, will be on Fox Sports 1. What do you make of these stacked fight weeks here? When you have three cards in a week, two cards in a week, two free ones, one pay-per-view. Is this a smart move by the UFC and company? Well, you know what? It's Fox Sports move. You know, I mean, we're in a situation where TV's paying the freight now

and they're going to want a lot of product because UFC is great product for that station. I think it's too much for you. UFC itself. I only know as a fan, I mean, I look forward to UFC. Yeah. And Wednesday, this past Wednesday, it was one of those things where I was in this mood of, you know what? It's like, there's a big show on Saturday that I'm looking forward to. And this was a good card. I enjoyed the whole card. But I wasn't, I didn't have that buzz the night before and the buzz when I woke up that, hey, it's UFC day on Wednesday that I usually

have. And I, I think on this coming Wednesday, I'm going to have it for the ultimate fight for the show itself because the first show of the season, and that's been hyped. I think that we're really going to have an interesting couple of weeks, I think about three weeks down the line, because whatever the rating is that the Glover-Teshara-Bater fight does, that doesn't really mean anything to me. It's just a show, okay? But Ultimate Fighter, this is a season that could do big ratings. I think it would do good ratings on FX, I think would have done, you know, great ratings historically if it had been earlier. If it does good ratings, then I say everything is healthy. If it does weak, numbers, and it would be weak numbers because it's a new station, then I don't know what to say

in a sense that, because again, even with this station, this station's going to grow. And sometimes when I look at like the ratings, like the first night, you know, the first night ratings were so freaking great. I mean, it blew me away. I didn't expect numbers anywhere close to that, as you know, when you sent them to me. I was blown away by those numbers. Now, you know, Wednesday's numbers was the, I don't know say the opposite, because it was good numbers. It was not even good. It was very strong numbers for the station. But the thing I looked at was Condit and Camman. I remember, you know, I was in Nashville for that fight. And Condit's so much of a bigger star now. And I looked up those Nashville ratings. And it was, it was, you know, 1.9 million

viewers. And this was 800,000 viewers. And it's like, holy, that's a big drop when it's, this is a bigger fight to me than the first one was. And that kind of scared me. But that's a network, but that's a network that's been around for years, as opposed to one that was around for two weeks. Right. Well, of course. Of course. The point is that when it comes to like everything, I mean, we're probably a good 18 months away from being able to evaluate anything when it comes to one. Because, you know, we don't know, you know, again, it's a two-week-old thing. And then the first night did have that a lot of hype into the first night, but it's not something that people, you know, are regularly watching that station yet. So I feel that that perhaps we're going to have 18 months of growing pains. And the rousy tape thing, is great for that station because I think it's going to give them a show on Wednesday night that people are going to tune into. Now, is it going to be a million and a half people tune in?

Probably not. If it's, if it's 800,000, I think that the station probably will like it because for a new station, that's a great, great number. But again, like if that was on an established station, you know, I think the Rousie Tate season could have done big numbers. And, you know, it's a game, you know, we're running a marathon here when it comes to that station. And the first, you know, the first year, it's going to be growing pains, I guess, is the right that way put it. I'm looking forward to it. I'm very curious to seeing how this all plays out. And honestly,

I'm excited for a show on a Wednesday. I like the midday cards, and I like the top three fights on this card, so it'll be interesting to monitor. Dave, great stuff as always. Thank you so much for stopping by. Always love having you on the show and love reading your stuff. Thank you. Okay, thanks, Ariel. Anytime. There he is. The great Dave Meltzer. Follow him on Twitter.com slash Dave Meltzer W-O-N is his Twitter handle.

You know him, of course, from MMA Fighting and the Wrestling Observer Newsletter. We were just talking about it. Wednesday is a very big night for the UFC and Fox Sports 1. Pre-fight show at 4 p.m. Eastern. Pre-lims at 5 p.m. Eastern. But they're on Fox Sports 1. You don't have to change a channel. And then the main card 7 to 10,

headline by Glover to Share versus Ryan Bader. And then it is the premiere of the Ultimate Fighter season 18. Misha Tate versus Rhonda Rousey. Eight women, eight men in the house, and Wednesday's show will be a two-hour premiere where a whole bunch of fighters will be fighting to get into the house. 32 in total, they'll whittle it down to 16, 8 and 8. It's going to be great. Looking forward to it. I've seen the first episode, and trust me, you want to watch it.

Here's a little more on the very first episode of the Ultimate Fighter on Fox Sports One. I go from this quiet girl into this rage when I get in the ring. I want to be the best in the world and compete with the best in the world. They talk about opportunity knocking. This is it. I wasn't my mom's little princess. For the first time, men and women live, train, and fight side by side. Coached by Rhonda Rousie and Alicia Tate.

The Ultimate Fighter premieres Wednesday on its new home. Fox Sports One. All right, there it is. Trust me, what's interesting about this one, guys, is that... I hear myself, by the way. Oh, there you go. We know these women. We've heard of them.

A lot of them you've seen before, Invicta, Strike Force, other organizations. And in my opinion, the big story coming out of it was how I was a lot more intrigued in the women than I was in the men. So it's going to be interesting. It's this Wednesday, once again, 10 p.m. Eastern Time on Fox Sports 1. That is eight straight hours of UFC action when you consider the pre-fight show at 4. all the way to the end of the ultimate fighter on Wednesday. The first night of Rush Ashana, how nice is the UFC in Fox Sports One to put all this great UFC action when we know, or at least they know,

that all us Jews will be home, eating, with our family, and then we can just sit on the couch and watch some UFC. Isn't it great? So considerate. Love it. All right. In a second, we're going to be joined by the master of the pit. The pit master, John Hackleman.

He, of course, trains the likes of Glover Toshera, Court McGee, has been there with Steven Sout. The Pitt has a location in Utah as well as in California, and you know him. He was side by side with Chuck Liddell for many years as Chuck Liddell was the king of the UFC light heavyweight division. So looking forward to having John Hackleman, one of the more interesting characters in our sport. He will not be in Brazil with Glover to Chera, which is interesting. We're going to talk to him about that. And then in around 15 minutes or so, Glover himself will be stopping by to talk about the big fight against Ryan Bader. And if you recall, right after UFC 163, Marshall's Elasnik, who is the sort of head of the Brazil territory,

used to be the head of the United Kingdom. You've seen him at the press conferences and whatnot. He said that he was told that if Glover Tashire looks impressive in victory on Wednesday, he will get the next crack at the light heavyweight title. So a lot at stake for Glover in his home country of Brazil. Let us go to the Skype machine now and welcome in Mr. Hackleman. John, are you there you? Hey.

How are you? Yes, I am. I'm right here. Are we? Oh, there he is. Oh, there he is. John. Good to have you on the show.

I've been wanting to have you on for a very long time. So as I mentioned, you are not in Brazil, right? No. I'm here in California. How come you're not with your guy, Glover over there? Glover's good right now. He's in good hands and he's got Pedro with him and he's got Steve with him. And it was just, you know, between me going to court, Ramsey's and everything,

and then just the way it worked out, we're fine just doing it this way for this fight. I remember talking to you last year and you were telling me how you love being with your guys and grooming these guys and all that, but you don't particularly love to travel. You're not a big fan of traveling, right? No, I hate traveling, actually. And Glover knows that. And, yeah. So, yeah, I hate traveling.

It gives me anxiety. Really? Yet you still do it. I do it, yeah. And I would have been on this trip. Like, if it was a different situation, different fight. But we all got together and agreed that this, for this fight, he's going to be fine with, you know, Pedro's his, you know,

one of his main guys, and Steve, you know, is one of his main guys. And, you know, it's just, we figured this one is going to be a good one. You know, he's got everything together for this one. And if he really needed me there, I would go. But I think he knows how much I hate the travel. And he's actually being very nice to me, and I appreciate that. What's it going to be luck for you come Wednesday night? You're sitting at home watching this, and that's your guy, and it's a huge fight for him.

And, you know, you're used to talking to him beforehand. Do you think it'll be hard for you? Do you think you'll be, you know, all tied up in knots? Yeah, I think it'll actually be a lot harder for me than it will for him. Because he's a lot cooler before a fight. He already has his game plan set and everything's, you know, working perfectly. He's got, you know, one of the best wrestlers, you know, anywhere working with him right now and one of the best coaches anywhere working with him right now.

So I think he's going to be focused. and going and I'm going and I'm going to be spinning like a friggin' top. I always am there anyway. You know how I get so, you know, I heard a funny story. Well, not recently. I remember reading or maybe you told me about the way you met Glover. You were actually cornering against him, right? Correct, yes.

His first fight and the guy's first fight. It was one of my guys' first fight. Eric Schwartz And it was his first fight And they fought at Tachi Palace In California Old site of the WEC And

We just really liked him And it was a really tough fight He ended up losing But It was a really tough fight We just saw something in him That we really liked And we went into the dress room after

Just to tell him What a great guy We thought he was and what a great fighter he's going to be someday. And we all just kind of started chatting. And next to you know, he asked if he could join the team. For that stretch, though, when he was going through the visa issues and all that, was it frustrating for you guys because he had such potential,

he just couldn't realize it here. Yeah, I mean, to be honest, and, you know, I've always been like this, and it's probably not the greatest thing in the world. But I don't really care about the potential, you know, that wasn't why we were. for me, I was just missing him as a person and being one of my guys more than fighting and the potential. You know, I just like being around my guys, you know. And so that really bothered me.

And I knew he wanted to come back. And I knew for him, he loved fighting so much. And he, you know, the window isn't exactly the biggest window in the world for any, you know, occupation. So we knew that. But he was keeping really busy. in Brazil he had a lot of good fights there he was working with Pedro Rizzo I mean you can't get much better than that

higher end so I mean things just happen to work out fall in place perfectly while he was there you know so you know he had sports he had you know Pedro Rizzo so while he was there he wasn't wasting any time that's for sure you talk about your guys you're perhaps

most famously known for you know being there alongside Chuck Liddell for all those years and And when Chuck retired, isn't it true that you kind of thought that, you know, that would be it for you as far as traveling the world and cornering these guys, like that you would kind of sail off into the sunset and do your own thing in California as well? Yeah, actually, that was a deal Chuck and I made. I was going to still train the guys because I love to be around the guys and train them and watch them grow. But the traveling, I hate, and then I hate just being in that corner and the nervousness. and, you know, I've been doing this for so long.

It just, it gets to me. You know, I get, I break down after fights and stuff, and I just, just don't like that part of it. But Chuck became Chuck Liddell, and he just, you know, he, you know, he, you know, he apologized. You know, I know, I promise, but, hey, you know, he's got so much other things going on right now. So, you know, I got, I got left hanging, hold in the bag, but what a good bag I've

God. I mean, I got guys, you know, I got some of the greatest guys, not just fighters, but people that I'm training and martial artists. You know, so I'm really, as much as I, you know, didn't want to do it, I'm, you know, I came out to be really lucky in the group that I have. So I wouldn't change a thing. So what exactly was the deal that you had with Chuck? Oh, he was, that when he retired from actually fighting, he likes to travel, and he loves to help me train the guy. and he loves to be in corners, mainly to argue with judges, if you've ever seen him do that, and referees. So he was going to take over the traveling part of the team. So, like, you know, we would train him together, and maybe I would focus on that part.

But when it was time for them to go to their fight, he was going to go with them. And you could stay back home. And I could stay with the dogs and my gym and a Royo Grande, California. and travel when I want, like to go see my mom in Hawaii or, you know, go to L.A. and hang out at Venice Beach. But, you know, Chuck turned into a celebrity, so he just doesn't have the time to do it. Now, does he spend time at the gym and does he help guys,

or he doesn't even have time for that anymore? No, he's part of it, but he's in L.A. Are you getting emotional on us? John? No. I don't never start that again. No, but Chuck is in L.A.

And he's, you know, he's focusing right now on the UFC, you know, his, what he does for them and his, you know, his, you know, his career. And that's going to be, it's just being Chuck Ladell, basically. You know, and that's, it's a career in itself

right now. And he's handling it so well. and he lives in a beautiful home and he's got his family and he's a serious family guy. And so that's what he's doing. And he just, he couldn't do the traveling with the guys, but he's still part of their training. Like he goes down and does work with Glover and he's a very important part of, you know, you know, Corp. McGee and everybody. And he'll do anything that the pit needs him to do.

But he's got to, you know, he's got to do what he's got to do right now. now, and that's how we understand that. He's still the most loyal, you know, guy that you could ever have on your team. Ever have a quiet moment with him? And he's like, man, I have one more in me. I'd like to do this one more time. He might think that, but he knows that I'm the wrong guy to say that to. Why is that?

Because I would, it would upset me if he said that, and he knows that. And he doesn't, he has as many as he. He wants left in him, but he knows that he's made his mark and he's done all he has to do in MMA, and he's going on from there. So he knows that. He better know that. You mentioned Cort McGee. He looked fantastic on Wednesday against Robert Whitaker.

Why has he looked so good at 170? What's been the difference for him there? My excellent training. Yeah, I figured. I figured. He was a strong 85er. I mean, this guy can deadlift almost 620 pounds. I mean, he can row, I mean, you guys don't know rowing times,

but he can row world-class rowing times. He runs, you know, a sub-six mile. You know, he's just, I mean, the guy is a beast. I mean, he's doing backflips. I mean, he's so athletic that he's just, you know, and strong. But I just wasn't seeing the size. I mean, as strong as he was at 85, I think. he's stronger than anyone, you know.

He's heavyweight strong, but he just didn't have the size, the physicality. I mean, so he was being a little bit, you know, pushed around a little more than he should have. Even with all his strength, he just didn't have the actual poundage behind him. So I thought he'd be better off at 70. We talked about it.

I gave him a trial to come down, and it worked out well, so we jumped in, and now he's, he woke up three pounds over, weighing, morning. Wow. Three pounds. So, I mean, he has a, you know, he's really, you know, dialed in on his diet, you know, he's got the, you know, perfecting athletes and he's working with them.

And so it's just working well for him. And 70 is his weight, yeah. It's kind of interesting because I feel like for a while I would see you at events just with Chuck and then, you know, things were quiet, but now I feel like I see you at every event. Glover, Stephen Seiler, Court McGee, Ramsey. Where has this influx of talent come from? Well, a lot of it is just, it's just, you know, it's just like the pit guys. And then we got the Utah pit guys who have influx, you know, infused a lot of people.

And we're coming together, it was a really good, you know, synergetic. union. We got, you know, Jason Merglich over at the pit elevated in Utah, and our systems, you know, when we brought our guys together, his and mine, it seems to really boost them up. I mean, he does a great job in running that, you know, that camp over there at, you know, or in Utah, and then just a little bit of infusion of my pit stuff, and it seemed to really work well for these guys, so you're going to see a lot more of them. But he holds down the fort there. I got to say that Jason does hold down the fort.

And then I'm just like the, I don't know what I am. I'm like the consultant or something. I'm just the grandfather. Well, you're doing a great job. And again, back to Glover, a big fight for him on Wednesday. And potentially, you know, if he wins and looks good, he's going to get a title shot. Do you like this matchup for him? I was listening to Chale's son on Saturday.

He doesn't like the matchup for him. He likes it for Ryan Bader. You obviously being there with Glover, do you like it? Yeah, I love Chale, and Chale is a... I think Chelle is a phenomenal athlete personality, superstar aura. Yeah. But let's not forget, he picked Whitaker over court. Oh, uh-oh.

Yeah. So, I mean, so, I mean, as good as his fighting is and his, and his, and his, and his, promoting himself, which is unbelievable, and he backs it up with great fighting, his picking winners is good. And I like the match up a lot. I liked it a lot more than I did the Samoan kid they brought in. Yeah, Tehuna. What? James Tehuna. I did not like that match at all for Glover. I knew Glover could beat him in every aspect.

He just seemed a little more dangerous than Bader. Even though Bader is more well-rounded, he's a bigger name, so there's a bigger, you know, there's a bigger pot to be won. But I do like the matchup for Glover. I just think Glover has too much power, too much punching. His wrestling defense is good enough to thwart any of, you know, Bader's attempts. I'm sure Bayer's going to try to keep it standing just to lull go over into some kind of comfort like it's going to be standing, and then he's going to go in for shots. But I think Glover's a little too sharp for that, and it just hits too hard.

It's just, you know, he hits too hard, basically. And if he does end up on his back, he's going to get right back up. And, you know, he's a world-class jujitsu black belt. And I just don't see a scenario. where Bader's going to come out on top of this one. Well, John, in a matter of seconds, we're actually going to be talking to Glover from Brazil. So we will send him your best,

and we wish you guys the best of luck on Wednesday, and enjoy your time at home. It must be interesting to watch a fight like this at home. Thanks for stopping by. Really great having you on the show. All right, thanks for doing a great job representing MMA. Thank you very much, John. Means a lot coming from you.

There he is. John Hackleman stopping by from the pit, and they are doing well as of late. On Wednesday, Court McGee did such a great job against Robert Whitaker. Fantastic striking and just poured it on him as far as, you know, the jab and everything else he did on his feet. And then this coming Wednesday, week later, Glover versus Bader in Bella Hortizant. Glover, to share, what a story. Remember, he most recently defeated James Tahuna at UFC 160, started his career two and two.

Since then, he's won 19 in a row. He's 21 and 2 going into this fight. And for a while, as we talked about in the interview with John, he couldn't fight in the United States due to visa issues. He was stuck in Brazil. Finally makes his UFC debut at UFC 146 Memorial Day weekend of last year. And since then, he has won four in a row in the UFC. Submitted Kyle Kingsbury in a minute and 53 seconds via armed triangle choke.

That was a very impressive debut against a tough guy in Kingsbury. he comes back against Fabio Maldonado at 153. That was also in Brazil in October of last year. And then a big one for him was defeating Rampage Jackson. Went the distance, but it was a very one-sided fight. Beat Rampage at UFC on Fox 6 in January in Chicago. And then most recently, UFC 160, James DeHuna, choked him out via guillotine at just two minutes and 38 seconds of the first round.

And if you recall after that fight, Glover and Mike Tyson, had a nice little moment in the cage. Glover Toshera has said in many interviews that he has always looked up to Mike Tyson. Mike Tyson was the guy that he used to watch as a kid and having Mike there, cage side alongside Dana White, as he had this performance,

which led him to get this number one contender fight, essentially, was a big one. You could see how emotional it was. He was like a kid in a candy story. He was more excited about meeting Mike in the cage that night than doing what he just did to James Tuhuna, winning via guillotine choke at 2 minutes and 38. second. And, you know, a lot of the tension because this has been all about Glover, potentially

getting that title shot, it's been about Glover, it's been about the Brazilian coming back home and all that stuff. But let's not ignore Ryan Bader. Remember, the last time we saw Bader in action, he submitted Vladimir Matuschenko in just 50 seconds via Gieti Choka, a very similar ending to the one that Glover had against James Tuhuna, but a much quicker one, just 50 seconds. and if I recall correctly, reading at the time via our friends at Fight Metric, that was the quickest submission in light heavyweight history. A very impressive performance and one that he needed after the knockout loss to Leodomachita. They were supposed to actually fight in May of this past year on that UFC 160 card,

but Bader got injured and had to pull out, so UFC obviously liked the matchup and decided to do it all over again. They haven't really said what's at stake for Bader, but, you know, if I'm someone like Daniel Cormier, I'm probably rooting for Bader in this fight because it would seem unlikely unless, because think about it, if Gustafson wins and it's something controversial, even if it's something quick, even if it's a decision, you have to think that John Jones is going to get an immediate rematch. So even, you know, why I bring that up, Bader already lost to John Jones, it's going to be tough to get him that rematch because, John Jones beat him rather convincingly.

So even if Bader wins and Gustafsson wins, I don't see, even though that's a fresh matchup, I don't see that fight happening anytime soon. And remember, prior to the Maitushenko fight, he had lost to Machita and is essentially what, since the Jones fight, one, two, three, three and three in his last six fights, beat Jason Brill's, of course, beat Rampage Jackson in Japan at UFC 144, and now he's getting the shot. to get over the 500 mark after the Vladimir Maichieko was a fight. So, you know, I think he's certainly a top 10 fighter.

And this arguably is the first time that Glover is fighting a top 10 fighter in the UFC. I guess Rampage was sort of on the fringe of being a top 10 fighter. And I think at the time, back in January, I had it maybe as number 10, even though he was going into that fight, a loser in his last two. It was obviously the biggest fight that Glover had had. But this one is a guy that most people can see. to be in the top 10, a guy who beat Rampage last February, coming off the win over Matt Yushenko. So this is really his first, in five fights in UFC, his first top 10 fight. And that's

what makes it so important. But it seems to me, like, with the emergence of, you know, Kormier and some other guys at 205, he can't just win on Saturday, excuse me, on Wednesday. He has to win impressively. Finish or just look the way he has looked in his first four UFC fights. So looking forward to having him on. We should have him on any second now, I believe. He is joining us via Bello Arrezanche in Brazil. And then right after Glover, via, I think, the same Skype account. Thanks to the UFC for that, we will be joined by Joseph Benevarez, who is there as well.

He's getting ready for Jucier Formiga. Oh, now I'm being told by New York Creek that it won't be Skype for either. But they will be joining us, right? I guess he's busy right now. Yes. Any minute now. I guess the connection over there isn't great. But, you know, phone, Skype, it's all the same.

We just want to hear from the guys. So flyweight fight. How about the flyweight fight on Saturday between Tim Elliott and Louis Gaudenow? I think a lot of people were picking Gowdano going into that fight, but perhaps the time off, the injuries going into the fight just didn't seem like himself. And Tim Elliott picked up a big one. It'll be interesting to see. what they do with Demetrius next because he doesn't have a fight lined up yet and there's no

clear cut number one contender. I think Benavides will get one eventually if he keeps on winning even though he lost to Johnson. But, you know, there's some, there's some fresh faces out there. Dowell Montague has signed with the UFC. He'll be facing John Dodson in Houston on October 19th at UFC 166. If Formiga wins, that could be a potential opponent. And then Tim Elliott with his beard, looking like Goat Boy in Milwaukee with a very big win over Luis Gaudenow on Saturday. A lot of stories on Saturday where I felt like guys took a very big step. Mendez had a very big win. Porre had a very big win.

Rothwell just needed a win to survive. Barnett, of course. Anytime you win the UFC, it's a big step. But Lim on the undercard. How about Glyson T. Bow? winning over Jamie Varner. The one that I was really impressed with Ally Quinta coming back after a long layoff, defeating Ryan Couture.

So some good stuff, and I presume we will talk about that when we get your questions. But first, let us go to the phone lines and welcome in the aforementioned Glover to share via Brazil. Glover, are you there? Yes, I am, man. How are you doing? I'm doing great. Thank you so much for joining us. You know, we just had your coach, John Hackleman, on the show, via Skype.

He's in California. and we were talking about him not being there with you in Brazil. He claims that he's going to be very nervous on Wednesday, and you're not the kind of guy to get very nervous before the fights. But is it strange for you not having John there for this fight? Yeah, man, you know, John was like going through a lot of flight, and I know he would come here, of course, you know, John's his own. He's like my dad.

I'll ask him anything to do it, but I was training with Pedro. I was in a good company. I told him about it. age, and don't worry about it. Pedro's going to go with me and the other guys from ATT. So he was okay about it, you know. So, you know, I feel good right now. But, yeah, I didn't want to get him through all the stuff.

He was going to, like, two or three fights, like last week. And this side of that I think he was in, I don't know, Indiana. Uh-huh. Come to Brazil is going to be too much, you know. and when you say Pedro Hizzo, right? Yes, yes, Pedro Hizzo, yeah. We were also talking to John about, you know, your time away from fighting here in the United States. Of course, this fight's happening in Brazil.

And you finally got the opportunity to come over to the UFC, perhaps a little later than you wanted. But also a little later in your life. At some point, were you just starting to think that, you know what, you know, and here we are, you're very close to getting a towel shot, you were thinking, you know, maybe I won't get that UFC shot. And I have to come to terms with that. I may have to just fight overseas, and that will be my MMA career. Did you ever think that it was close to happening that way for you?

Yeah, I don't know, man. You know, when you go down, you know, have hard times in your life. You always think, you know, those things, too. But always, most of the time I was thinking, I say, like, 85% of the time, I was thinking, like, positive, you know, that I will get that shot one day.

They just just met of time. And, you know, you work hard, and you fight like Chuck told me at one time. I just keep fighting everybody, man. It's going to happen sooner or later. And look at me, I mean, you know, I don't say time lost, but all the time not getting UFC after I get in the UFC, I've got to fight every three, three or four months, you know.

It's going to be my fifth fight in a year and a half. Yeah. What's been the secret for you? A lot of guys, especially at your size, aren't that active. How have you been able to squeeze in so many fights in such a short amount of time? You know, I just do right training partner, training, training, right? I mean, you can't, I mean, you get injuries. It's one thing that, like, you know, it happens in camp.

I mean, it's a bad luck, I guess, you know. I mean, anyone can have that like. If I could drive around the street, you know, it can get in a car accident. But, like, you know, when you train hard, but, like, you train with the right training partner, be really careful, and I've been successful so far, so it's great. Do you even remember the last time you lost the fight? No, thank God no, man. You know, it was in 2005.

It was against Ed Herman. But do you even remember what it felt like to lose? Yeah, man, I mean, I felt, I remember that fight. I was so tired. And I was like, I can't, I remember one time in the second round, I got his back, and I couldn't choke him out because I was so tired. And I promise, like, self, I'll never get tired again in a fight. And after there, just keep training hard, you know.

And when I get the opportunity now, I'm strong, and I'm going to finish this guy, you know. So what did you do to change your cardio, to make it better? You got to train right. You know, I'm a hard worker all the time, but, like, the thing is, like, I think that fight I make a weight all better. You know, it was my third fight, I believe. Fourth fight. Yeah, fourth fight. So, you know, you always learning with the stuff, and I was, like, two or three years training in MMA.

So I was not cutting weight right, but right now, just like I do a lot of spying, you know, like a lot of wrestling. And I do condition or like a CrossFit style, like John Say CrossFit. So we do like full fighting, you know what I mean, wrestling and we do some condition and wrestle again and punching the pads, the bag, you know, so all like mix. But, you know, you got to be careful so we don't over train. I think I'm doing all right, man. You're doing very well, and you mentioned that you want to finish Ryan Bader. Of course, there's a lot at stake for you in this fight.

He is a wrestler, and I think a lot of people are expecting him to try to wrestle you. How much time did you spend wrestling in this training camp? You know, man, same time I spend all my other fights, you know. I train with a great wrestler. You know, Steve Marquois over here also is going to be in my corner. He's one of the best American restaurants. There's actually Olympics and everything.

But, you know, I train a lot of wrestling for all my fights, and I train a lot of stand-up. You've got to be ready for everything, man, because it's one of those things. Like, you prepare for the guys his strongest, like, let's see, so focused on Ryan Bader's wrestling, and he comes down with the great hands and, you know, beat me and his weakness.

So I can't think that way. I just got to be focused on everything, you know. Is your mindset going into this fight that you can't? just win to get that title shot, you have to do something impressive? Because it seemed like that's what they were saying when they made the announcement. Yeah, you know, I believe so, and, you know, I think so. I think I have to go over there and prove I'm ready for that title shot. You know, can not go and do a boring fight.

That's true, you know. It was like, I think, Dan O'I say something. And Chuck is to tell me all the time. If you want to win fans and if you want to get, you know, know, get a fight, like get to the title, go over there and excite the fans, you know, improve and show yourself you can beat this guy. You can beat them impressive, you know? So I try all the time, you know.

Just the way I've been fighting, and I go and I go to trying to finish all my fights. It doesn't matter of way, you know, I try for knockout, but if I see the open, I definitely go for submission. So John Jones is fighting Gustafson in three weeks. Are you rooting for him to win so that you can fight the champ, the guy who's been so dominant for so long? Yeah, I mean, you know, that fight, it's kind of hard for me to say it, because Stavson work hard, you want that title. But in a way, yeah, I mean, if John Jones win, it would be better for me.

If I have to fight the champion, be fighting John Jones because he has a bigger name. He's been in a, you know, it's kind of like Wydenden beat Anderson Silver, you know, it was good for him, not just, you know, somebody go now and beat Wydenman. It's not the same thing, you know what I mean. How many more years do you want to do this for? You're 33 now. I don't know, man.

I think like Vandalee told me one time, like I told him, I'm 33, actually, but like 32, three going off 44. But he said, like, he was joking around one time. And I was like, yeah, man, he's like, he's young. You're going to be a champion and everything. He said, yeah, I'm not that young. He's like, yeah, but you don't have a lot of Myers on, you know. Like, you know, I think he'd pretend like, you know, like Von der Leigh, he's 35 or 36.

I think, but he is, that guy's been, like, in a lot of fights, you know? So it's kind of like, I don't know, maybe six more years. Okay. Well, that's a good amount. And you're originally from Minajadais, right? Yes, I am. Is that close to Belloosa? Are you going to have a lot of family and friends at the fight?

Yeah, all my sister and friends are going to come here, you know, they are not a lot of people because it's a little far. It's like a three and a half, four hours driving. Okay. But, yeah, all my family is going to be. and my cousins and just my dad and my mom are going to stay home, you know. They're kind of old, so... But they'll watch it on TV.

Yeah, my dad watch. My mom probably watch after the fact, you know, after the fight. She doesn't want to see you get punched. No, not at all. Glover, I know... She can't take the adrenaline, you know, watching the expectation of the fight. She can't wait. Can't do it.

Yes, mothers are like that. I know we have to go, so I'll let you go, but thank you so much for stopping by, and good luck to you. I can't wait for it this Wednesday. Glover Tashara versus Ryan Bader. If Glover looks good and picks up a big win, he could very well be next in the UFC light heavyweight division. Best of luck to you, Glover.

Thank you, man. Thank you. There he is. Glover Tashara, and I think he's actually going to pass the phone from what I'm told from New York Rick to Joseph Benavitas. Is that right, New York, Rick? That is correct. So he didn't hang up right now, right?

Joseph's just going to pop in any second now? Wow, this is fun. So there you have it. at Glover Tosher, Ryan Bader, main event Wednesday. I've talked about Benavides and Formiga. That's the third big fight on the card. The other one, as I mentioned at the top, Jacare versus Okami at 185.

Huge fight in the middleweight division. Jacaray looked very good in his debut in the Octagon back in May against Chris Komosi, another fight in Brazil. And this is a guy, of course, former Strike Force middleweight champion, getting his toughest test, arguably the toughest test of his career. and that's no knock on Luke Rockhold. He lost a new Luke Rockhold. But you beat, you beat Yusinokami, especially Yusinokami, the guy who likes to ground and pound and all that stuff, big, tough, middleweight. You beat him with Jiu-Jitsu with what Jokre is so good at. That would be impressive.

You submit Yushenokami. Does Yushenokami ever been submitted? That was kind of me throwing it out there, hoping New York Rick had the stat. But we haven't developed him into a stat boy just yet. Okay, the phone situation. Ushin Thunder Okami, has he ever been submitted? Lost to Tim Boch via TKO, Anderson Silva TKO, of course, Chelsunin decision, Rich Franklin decision, Jake Shields, decision, Fara Nico Vitalis, but decision, Amar Suloyev, TKO, and that's it. Never been submitted. How about that?

I haven't heard a lot of people talk about that going into this fight. The name of the arena, by the way, on Wednesday is Journalista Felipe Drummond Stadium. So based off that, it correct me from wrong, I feel like the stadium is named after a journalist, which makes me wonder why a stadium hasn't been named after me. And I feel like I've contributed a lot to not just this sport, but all sports in general, society, maybe not in the U.S., but certainly in my hometown of Montreal, a journalist. I think Joe Robbie in Miami, Joe Robbie Stadium, I think Joe Robbie was a journalist. So there is hope.

To Felipe Drew Montes. Is it Drew Mont or is it Drummond? He doesn't appear to have his own Wikipedia page. The arena itself has its own Wikipedia page. but how about that? The Menejera State Government actually owns the arena. By the way, we have a second here. Want to send our condolences to the family of Tommy Morrison, the famous boxer Tommy Gunn, the Duke.

Rest in peace to him, died today this morning. Born in 1969, passes away in 2013. We send our condolences to his family. A very colorful character, obviously had a checkered history, but one that was certainly very well known in the world of boxing. And actually, once competed in a mixed martial arts fight, a quasi-mixed martial arts fight, he does have, I believe, a Sherdog Wikipedia page or a Fightfinder page.

But it was, there was like the rules were a little off. But he did touch the world of MMA briefly, a few years back. So we send our best and our condolences to the family of Tommy Morrison. Let us move along and welcome in Mr. Joseph Benevitas from Brazil. Joseph, are you there? Hey, what's up, Ariel? Hey, how are you?

Good. Good. I just found out about the Tommy Morrison just right now when you said it. Get out. On my show. I had no idea when you were saying that. I was like, what? Tommy Morrison, what was he talking about? And then when you said he passed away it. Yeah. That RIP Tommy Gun. Yeah. He also touched the wall.

World of Phenema, Rocky 5. Of course, of course. Good country there. Yeah, I forgot about that. That's right. It was good stuff. Yeah, very sad. And, again, we wish our best to his family.

So, Joseph, you're in Brazil. How's it treating you over there? How long have you been there? I've been here since I lost track of days here. Saturday morning. Okay. Yeah, because the morning of the fight. Who stayed up and watched the fights in Milwaukee, which were outstanding.

But yeah, it's good, man. I'm happy to be here. You know, it was just me, Lance Palmer, and my girlfriend came in. So that was good. And then the whole crew is kind of arriving today now with the fight's done. I got my other cornerman, Jimmy Gifford in here, Christiano Marcella, who came from his Brazil. He's come help me out and hang out. So, yeah, man, we're having a good time.

And, you know, the weight's good. It is a little different. I heard, you know, people say, you're going to be able to have the food and stuff that you're used to, just a little thing. So I brought a lot of my food and was prepared like a true professional. Wow. And then I found some other stuff at the grocery store down here, which was the circus, but it was awesome.

And so, yeah, everything is cool, man. It's awesome to be here and, you know, discovering and different cultures and everything. So just all leading up to the fight. Can't wait to fight for the fans here. By the way, I'm a little concerned. Have they kidnapped you over there? Why are you whispering? I don't know.

I'm not. Am I whispering? It sounds like you're trying not to be heard. I did an interview earlier and someone said it sounded like I was talking to a girl in my bed at one. Yeah, it does. It was like one in the morning. It is very sensual. Okay.

I think there's, well, we're in a media room. Okay. Other interviews going on. Okay. Okay. And I guess I'm just, yeah. It's very thoughtful of you. Yeah.

All right. Well, let's do this. I'll turn it up with you. No, no, no. It's okay. I was just concerned that someone had kidnapped you and you were trying to tell us something by whispering, but you couldn't tell us, of course, because you didn't want to piss off. You know what I mean?

I was just, why, by the way, why? I'm looking out. Thank you. Why is the supermarket a circus? It was just, like, it was just crazy. Like, it was, like, Saturday night. Like, it was, like, the place to be. It was just awesome.

Like, the lines were so long. Like, the produce was just everywhere, like, on the floor, wilted on tables. Like, it was just, it was just good times. And, like, it was just, like, we had no idea any of the stuff, you know? So, like, I said, glad we brought some of the stuff that I needed, like for cutting this weekend because none of the stuff is really what we were used to. Yeah.

But also the supermarket, you know, it was like a Walmart. It had your shoes, your clothes, and it was just cool. And just the lines were super long. It seemed like everyone in the world was there. Have you gone your hands on some assayee? I don't know if that helps or hurts the weight cut, but it's fantastic. Oh, yeah, it's the best, yeah. I haven't had any here yet, you know, probably not right now before the weight cut.

actually could help. I mean, you know, it's pretty good. It's just fruit, you know, digestion and everything. But, you know, I haven't had to got my hands on any... I'm a little... I get to taste in Brazil and some in Rio when I was there two years ago. Yes. Which is awesome. So we're definitely on the hunt for it here. I have it, my cornerman and everything.

When I was in Rio, when I was in Rio last month, I had it six times in 72 hours. I remember you saying some about that, how you were obsessed with it. Yes, a little bit. Yeah. so good. You know, you can, like, make your own. They sell, like, the stuff that, I mean, it's probably not as good. It's not the same. I tried. I actually bought a blender specifically to do that. It's just not the same.

They got to say. Yeah, it's not the same. You mentioned the team. Why isn't the now-famous coach Bang Ludwig going to be there with you? Oh, so the thing with Dwayne is his wife is actually expecting their third child. Oh, wow. Any day now. Okay. And it was pretty much due around the time, like,

of the fight. So he literally went to, Chad's fight for one day to corner him, like, wasn't there for fight week to stay home. And then, you know, he told me months ahead of time that, hey, like, that's around the time my child's do, you know, means a lot to me. And I was like, hey, you know, like, the work's going to be done in the gym anyway. You know, that's how we kind of look at it. You know, the work's going to be done in the gym. We did everything we could do to prepare for the fight. You know, now it's time to come out here and do it, you know, but, you know, that's important. We actually missed the birth of his last child for a fight, and, you know, he said that wasn't exactly something you want to do again.

Yeah. And, you know, I definitely respect that. Like I said, I mean, the work's done in the gym, you know. If worse came to worse, I could come down here by myself. I'm the one fighting. I know I would know what to do. You know what I mean? So thankfully, I still have a great group of people around me, and I've had, like, Dwayne, preparing me for the last two months, you know?

So we're all set, man. And you see Chad do what he did on Saturday, and he's looked so good as of late night. I keep asking every alpha male guy before his fights, but I believe, correct me from wrong, you guys are undefeated with Bang as coach, right? Yes, and the UFC, I think we're 12 and 0 or 11. Now that you're up, now that it's your turn at bat. I mean, do you guys think, you don't want to be the guy?

I mean, you always want to win, of course, but this is an amazing street going on here. Yeah, it's definitely, it's amazing. And not only the wins, but I think the way the wins are happening says that much more. Like, you can see improvement. You know, I mean, like Gwita had never been stopped by punches before, you know,

and, you know, now Chad has four knockouts in a row, you know, since Wayne came. I think my striking looked as good as it's ever been. In my last fight, T.J. Dillishaw, who people knows, the rest of there's two knockouts in a row. So, you know, I think these are fights, you know, maybe we would have won

whatever, but I think the way we're doing it has been, you know, remarkable in itself. So, yeah, man, we're on an awesome street. Obviously, I never want to lose anyway, but, you know, that has, you know, that's more motivation and confidence, if anything. Like, I see my teammates going out there. We're doing the same thing, the same practices every day.

And, you know, we really grow, like, a certain belief in the system that you're training. Like, that's everything, you know, on this sport, you know, the confidence and the belief. And, you know, we go out there and we have a belief in the system, the coaching, the structure, the team that we're doing. So it even makes that even more so when you see, you know, your team may go out there and get the knockout the night before. So, you know, I think after that, I tweeted, like, thanks for the inspiration, because that's really what it did.

Like, when I saw Chad knock the guy out, I'm like, my turn, you know, I was just super inspired by it. It's like he's passing the baton to you now to do something great. But can you feel a difference in the team, something going on in the training, the mood, the confidence? Now, you know, post-bang and pre-bus. bang, but was there something missing pre-bang? Oh, my God.

Like, structure was missing, like, coach was missing. Like, the simple things like that, like, that people take for granted, like, a coach, structure and practices, having someone, like, break down the guy you're fighting and, you know, prepare you for that fight, like, you know, according to what the guy does, like game planning, you know, pretty much, like, the simple things that every single team and coach does are things we didn't really have. And, you know, we were basically trained hard and we're fighters, coaching fighters, would get done with practice and be like, hey, you felt good, man.

But, like, there was no, you know, nothing after that, you know, as far as breaking down fights and just the structure of the practices and the leadership. So, you know, Duane came in, you know, brought the structure and it was, like, like I said, the belief really more than anything. Like, yes, there's all the small things and the, like, very intricate detailed, like things I could talk about that, you know, it probably bore people just, like, the technique-wise, like the footwork and the angles and stuff and the combinations that he's helping us with, and that those are things that I don't have to talk about.

I think you can see in the fight. But the other things he's brought, like I said, is just really the belief and the confidence in the system, you know, the leadership, you know, is definitely something we needed at the team before Dwayne came in. You know, now that he has it, you know, we're all just riding, you know, the confidence and the wave of wins here. So I think that's definitely what's changed. But, you know, for the most part, when people ask me, like, what's changed? It's just having a coach has changed. And then the fact that that coach has really gone above and beyond and works as hard as us

and is his skilled and knowledgeable as Dwayne, you know, has just been amazing. By the way, when Faber gets sort of the credit for calling him to be a part of the team, but did he ask you guys, do you like this guy, do you want me to reach out to him? What was the process there? Yeah, yeah. You know, we were always, we were kind of looking and, you know, we all kind of, to throw our ideas out. He texted Dwayne. And yeah, he asked, he said, hey, Duane Ludwig in mind. And we're like, yeah, that sounds cool. Like, that'd be awesome,

you know, and, like, it seemed like perfect timing. Like, everything with how it's worked out. It's just been perfect timing. So it's perfect timing. He said, you know, we're going to have him come down and the whole day, like a few practices. So Dwayne actually came down, checked out Sacramento, checked out the area. You know, made sure he meshed with the team, and we meshed with him. And he ran us through a few practices. And we just loved. his passion and energy and obviously his technique and skills and knowledge, like, right off the bat and we're like, you know, that's going to work. And, you know, we all kind of agreed that that's the guy we need in here.

And like I said, man, the rest is still, I guess, right in itself. You know, it seems like a lot of people want to push you into the title picture. And even after your first one post Mighty Mouse, they were taught, you know, after you beat Ian McCall, you're kind of saying, you know, you take it, but you, you, you, you, you, you'll take your time as well. And after the last one as well, maybe a little more aggressive, but the same sort of thing.

Win over Formiga. Will you be asking for a title shot? Do you feel like that's the thing that makes most sense? Yeah. You know, I think regardless, it's not something I'm going to ask for. It's something if I deserve it, then I'll get it.

And, you know, and I'd definitely be willing to take it. Like, literally, after my fight with McCall, I wasn't really, like, even willing to take it. I was just like, if they want me to, like, I literally don't want to. It's too soon. I'm still improving as a fight.

fighter, I would just be rushing things and make the same mistake I did, you know, at 135. And, like, at that point, Dwayne just came in, too, I felt like I had a lot to work on and improve on, and that really changed as a fighter. So literally, at that point, I didn't even want to. Now I'm still at the point where I'm not going to ask for something, you know, it's like, ultimately it's not really up to me anyway. So if I deserve the title fight, then, you know, I'll get it. Other than that, I'm just going to go out there, you know, fight as good as I can, you know,

try to put on good performances and, you know, let him know that I'm obviously, willing to do it. And, you know, it would be great. It would be fun anytime I get to go out there and fight a guy like Mighty Mouse who has beat me and is also a great fighter, you know, for the world title. Yeah, you know, it's awesome and I think I can be ready. But, you know, like I said, it's not someone I'm going to ask for because if I deserve it, I'm going to get it. And I don't deserve it, then I won't get it. Are you surprised by how well Mighty Mouse is doing as champion? No, I'm not, I'm not surprised at all. I mean, if you look up to my fight, you know, I felt like he was improving every single fight, and he's just continuing to do that.

You know, as a fighter, you know, really, you know, I guess find himself as a fighter and just getting better and better, you know, find himself in the weight class and his style and, you know, a fighting and everything. And, you know, after I fought him, I knew, you know, he was a great fight. Well, I knew before, you know, I was a fan of Mighty Mouse since the first time I saw him when he fought Brad Pickett in the W. And all the way through. And, like, you've just seen him literally in every single fight in the double. WEC and the UFC and the UFC

like improve and you know so I think he's just getting to the point you know where he's an awesome fighter and he's one of the best in the world I think pound for pound

so it really doesn't surprise me at all because I think the first time anybody saw my mouth he knew the kid had something special you know and now he's just fine-tuning those things and yeah you know he's a great champion and you know it'd be awesome to get back there and with him again

but you know I think it's it's really a matter of time. I don't know when it's going to be, but if I keep doing my job and being the best fighter, I can be, you know, it's going to happen. But, yeah, I'm not surprised at all about how great he's been doing. The reason I ask is when the tournament was first announced, it felt to me like he was kind of the guy that people least expected to win the whole thing.

And now, of course, he's proven his worth. I mean, submitting Maraga and the fifth and all that stuff, but he wasn't the favorite. So I was wondering if the experts like you guys, were you thinking that he would be the guy to get past McCall and all that stuff? And it appears as though you were. Yeah, honestly, I mean, I do feel like probably a lot of people thought I was going to win, whatever. And, you know, then McCall was there at the number one featherweight.

But me personally, I thought I was going to meet, at the whole time I thought I was going to meet Demetri's Johnson. I was more surprised at how good McCall did in their first fight, you know, than anything. But, like, when it started, I was like, all right, mighty mouse on that side. I'm on this side, like that's who I'm going to meet in the finals. And that's what I thought. I know a lot of people were sold on the call, you know, being the number one guy in the world, and I think he went out there and fought, you know, like it, the first, the first fight. But after that, like I said, it's just a matter of Mighty Mouse adapting, you know,

and like he was good then, and he just gets better and better, you know, every fight he really adapts. And I think one thing he does excellent. He goes out there and execute all the time. You know, nothing really gets to me. never stirs far away from his game plan and what his coaches are saying, you know, he goes out there and he just executes, you know, fights well, and I know he's very calm and just relax the fight week. So, you know, he just has all the things it takes to be a champion. I definitely thought I'd meet him in the finals. And there it was, and it was kind of crazy because when I fought

McCall after, you know, I think a lot of people didn't realize that could have been, you know, a world-tile fight as well as close in one as well. So, you know, I think the weight class is only getting stronger. wasn't a part of that tournament, but for a long time, he was considered, you know, the top guy in the weight class, you know, even before Flywitz really talked about, of course, he McCall beat him, and then he became the top guy before the UFC or WC ever even, you know, hinted that they were interested in the flywights. And in the UFC, I mean, he started off not great, obviously the loss to Dotson, came back against Chris Carrioso, solid decision win. What do you make of Formiga as a

UFC fighter. Is he one of those guys, in your opinion, that, you know, we see a lot of these guys on the local circuit doing very well once they get to the UFC for whatever reason it doesn't translate, or do you think he is a top-level guy at 125? Top-level, as in, yeah, like top five, you know, top 10, always going to be there to contend, you know, as far as making a run of the title, you know, I mean, I don't know. I don't know if I can see him, you know, doing that as if you have just, from what I've seen, you know, I mean, and if you look at it, he's lost to, you know,

some of the top guys already that are right there at that level that are like that you need to beat to get into the top two, top three in the world, you know, being his lost to Dawson and McCall, you know, and it looks like they beat him pretty handly. I mean, with Dawson, you never know, because there wasn't too much during that fight going on, and Dawson can stop a fight with one punch any time, and that's what he did. So there wasn't much actual, I guess, you know, fighting in that fight. And then with McCall, you know, McCall's one of the best guys in the world, and you've seen him fight the best guys in the world.

And, you know, he had a good fight with Formiga, too. You know, so I think he's going to continue to prove in the UFC, continue to improve in the UFC. You know, he looked good in his last fight. You know, people don't realize also how tough the guy he beat Chris Carioso is. You know, this guy went to a split decision with Michael McDonald, had some other really tough fight, very durable guy as well. So, you know, he's tough, but, you know, it's becoming.

down to this, you know, can you beat one of the top guys, like one of the bigger names that being McCall, Dawson, you know, one of the guys that you know are at the top of the division. And I'm out there to prove that you can't on Wednesday, so. How do you see it playing out? You know, I see it being a good fight, you know, I'm definitely going to always be going for the finish, and, you know, my fight I always see is just being exciting and active, you know, that's what I always try to go out there.

And sometimes, to my fault, you know, I'll just get a little, too crazy, too reckless, or not worry, or execute as well as I could have, because I always want to go for the finish and, you know, take chances and everything. So, you know, I'm going to continue to do that. That's why fight, you know, I'm going to go out there and put on a good fight, but I think you're going to see, you know, just a lot of people said my last fight was probably my best. I've looked like stand-up and controlled and relax, and I think you're just going to see that even better.

Like, that was my best stand-up fight maybe, and I think I've improved, you know, 50%, you know, since then, you know, I feel really good. And it's almost the same matchup as my last fight, too, if you think about it. Him and Uyana are pretty much the same fighter. Like, for me, it's like Uyna Oiyama 2.0. I'm just going to have to go out there to be a little faster. You know, the only advantage he's going to really have is on top of me on the ground. If we go to the ground, I'm on top, I still think I'll have the advantage.

You know, even though he's a great jihitsu player, if we go out of the ground, I'm on top. I'll be good. So, you know, I definitely see me just being faster and having a better pace on him until I finish him. It'd be great to submit him in Brazil and submit another black belt. But, you know, I'll take the win however I can get it. Two last quick things, and we appreciate the time very much, Joseph. Of course. You know, I don't know.

You've probably heard of this. You follow the sport very much. But foreigners don't seem to do very well in Brazil. Have you thought of this, and do you have any idea why this has? happens. Yeah, that's funny. You know, a lot of people have mentioned it. And to me, like, I just try to be as optimistic as possible, which you kind of have to

when it comes to this fighting stuff. And it's like, since the odds aren't very good against me, I kind of look at it. I have to look at it in the way as, like, hey, none of those guys were me. You know, like, none of those guys were me or Formiga. So it doesn't really matter. You know, it's like, it's like this is the first time me and him have fought. It doesn't matter what anyone else has done. Like, this is the first time me in Formiga Fond, 50, 50, whatever.

On the other hand, you know, I'd be optimistic if, like, Americans were killing it down here. I'd be like, oh, yeah, we always come down and win, and, like, the same thing's going to happen. But, you know, you've got to look at it as, like, none of those other fights were me and him. This is the first time it's going to happen. So, like, that has nothing to do with me. And, like, that basically has no chance or way that it could possibly affect me because it wasn't me. know. So that's kind of how I'm looking at it. Good way to look at it. I was asking you about this via text, but I got to bring it up now. I mean, you know I am a fan of your poems and you disappointed.

No poem for this fight? Nothing? Nothing going on? No, no. You know, what it usually, I think I sent you one last time after my last fight, like the gluttony one as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The entertainer was big, which I want to put out. You know, I'll do some stuff, but it's not always things that you like, you need to share with people either. Sure. But anyway, you know what I feel is my thing?

As far as, like, the poetry and anything, like, Joby Awards, the Jiu-Jitsu, like, manifesto that I wrote a while back is, like, it's like, during my fight, I'm so consumed, like, physically, you know? Yeah. And after my fight is when I can relax and, like, my creativity can kind of come out. And, like, I can more think. So, like, every time any of that happened, it's been, like, after my fights where, like, you know, my mind, I guess, is free to do other things, you know?

Because other than that, I'm totally consumed by the fight and, like, everything going on with that. You know what I mean? So, like, anytime, like, when I did the Jobi Awards and I thought of that, like, I'd never think of stuff like that when I'm fighting because I'm only thinking of fighting, but when I'm done and I can relax and, like, be creative, that's when, like, I came up with the Jobi Awards when I wrote the poems, like, when I did the jojitsu thing where I, like, stayed up all night writing, like, a mad scientist and, like, bringing wrinkled papers into the gym and asking my teammates if it was funny, like, like, stuff like that is stuff I can, like, concentrate and just, I kind of just naturally do

after fights when I, like, am not 100% applying myself to training. All right, so what you're saying is we may get one afterwards. Is that what you're telling me? There's a chance? Okay, we may. Yeah. By the way, are you over the spurs loss in June? I know you're a big spurs guy.

Yeah, I mean, I'm over it, you know? I mean, but I mean, it will still bug me. Like, if I think about it, like, for weeks after, I would be driving and just be, like, totally happy and content, and then I'd just be like, damn it. And I'm like, someone would be like, what's the matter? I'm just thinking. Yeah.

Like the Spurs, that was the same thing I did for the Tile Fight, like, things like that. But, you know, I'm over it. You know, no one even thought they'd get that far, really. And they did good. I think it didn't have really anything to do. Like, it didn't, like, tarnish the legacy of the Spurs or Dunk. or anything. I mean, obviously five would have been good, and it hurt because they were so close, especially in the game six. But, you get over.

Man, get over things like that, I guess. I'm a huge Knicks fan, and I do the exact, like, when they were eliminated, we don't have as great a history as you, but I have that same, like, I'm having a good day, and then I think about it, and then I get so sad all of a sudden. Yeah, like just walking or driving. Yeah, go ahead. That's so close. Ray Allen, that three, why? Why couldn't they even get the rebatt? Oh, my God.

Horrible. Not even that. The Miss free throws before. Oh, yes. Every corner wouldn't have even mattered if the, like, there's just so many things that could happen. Well, that one hurt. And the thing was, they were, like, so close and, like, no one thought they were

going to be there and even get the five, you know, like, yeah. I've never been a Spurs guy. And by the way, for our international fans, we're not talking about the soccer team. We're talking about the San Antonio Spurs NBA team. I've never been a Spurs guy, but I really respected them after that. they were just so likable, kind of the older team, hardworking, and I just hate the heat so much that I was really sad. I can't imagine how you were feeling.

I was really sad. Yeah, I was pretty hardbroken. You know what? I think this series actually did a lot for the Spurs. I feel before that, even though they had the four titles, it wasn't at that magnitude where they were playing a team like the Heat. So, like, it didn't really matter, and people kind of saw the sport as Spurs as like a boring team

and maybe didn't pay attention to them in the finals because they weren't playing someone like the heat, but just the fact that they were playing the heat and LeBron James, and we almost grew more fans just from the peer hatred of LeBron through the nation, you know what I mean, and got people rooting for them. And in that process, you know, got people realizing, you know, how great of a basketball team they are. So, you know, it wasn't a total loss, I guess.

But, you know, that's how I kind of felt like they never got that much publicity in their other finals, you know, because they weren't playing, you know, someone like the heat and the bronze. So, you know, it was good. You know, hopefully you can muster up something next year. I only bring it up to get you fired up for Wednesday. I'm looking forward to it very much.

You versus Formiga, a huge fight on Fox Sports One. It's this Wednesday. Don't forget about it. Main Card 7 p.m. Eastern. A very important fight in the flyweight division. Always great having you on the show, Joseph, and good luck on Wednesday. Appreciate it, Arrow. Thanks.

All right, there he is. Mr. Jiu-Jitsu himself stopping by. A huge San Antonio Spurs fan. I had to bring it. up. I'm not even a Spurs guy and I'm still not over it. I so wanted them to lose. But there you have it. It will be interesting if he finishes the fight like he did back in April. If you were called the famous Men Venetus Shah card, if he's able to do that again, does he get the title shot? Or they look to bring in a fresh face, a Tim Elliott, a Montague. Some of these guys who haven't

had a shot yet. Who else would be out there at 1.25 who hasn't fought for the belt. Dodson has fought for the belt. McCall has fought Mr. Johnson. Most recently, Moraga, fought. There's Linneker, but I don't think he's going to get the title shot. He has to fight Phil Harris first. Those would be the guys.

Lindnerker probably would have gotten the shot if he made weight his last fight last month, but fortunately he didn't, so he's going to fight Phil Harris again. Okay, it's not just about the UFC this week. Belator returns on Saturday, and part of the card is the first round of their Bantamweight tournament, and the baddest man on the planet is going to be a part of it, and he, of course, was a coach on Fightmaster, on Spike TV. You'll have the finals as well. We were, of course, talking about Joe Warren, who joins us on the phone right now. Joe, how are you? good thanks for having me guys good to have you and right off the top i have a message via twitter from one scott jorgensen who tells me to tell you what's up joey see you soon and call a friend once in a while what's that supposed to mean are you want to forget your friends no no you know it's it's it's it's fight camp for me and he's uh you know scottie scottie's at home we're on this uh we both used uh the same train we use the same coach mark montoya and we're

like best friends, so he messes with me. So, you know, with friends, if he doesn't, if he don't call him back 10 minutes after he calls, he gets caught hurt. Oh. You know what I mean? I said it's no problem, but I told him now that he's a 125 or he can't talk shit to me anymore. Oh, is Scott Jorgensen dropping down? I think that's news. Yeah, it is news, and I'll be the first one to say it. He's, uh, he walks around 138 right now. He's going to have that belt soon in the next year. Wow. Well, we were just talking about the flyweight division. That throws a very interesting wrench into it all. So he's dropping down to 125. Look at you breaking news on our show.

Yeah, yeah. You know, it's the Bellator guy. Always breaking news. Well, let's talk about you. First off, Fightmaster. How did you like the experience? Oh, I mean, you can't ask for any better situation to have a show with

the four guys, me, Greg, Randy, and Frank. I mean, we all get along real well. They're all, you know, veterans of the sport for me to be able get thrown in there with that group of coaches and experts and professionals. It was an honor for me. Now, at first glance, you look at the coaches, as you mentioned, Greg, Frank, Randy, and

then you, I mean, I know you're not going to take offense to this, but as far as coaching is concerned, you don't have the resume that they do. So did you feel a little bit like, all right, I need to prove my worth here. I need to prove to the guys, the fighters. You know, I have a better resume than they do. You know, I've been on the Olympics. Uh-oh. We lost him just when he was about to lay the smackdown.

Joe, are you still there? Recruited to the University of Michigan Division I school and had the top tier coaches, moved to Olympic Training Center and was coached. So I believe that I've been coached by the best my whole life and I've been coaching also. I own a wrestling gym in Denver, the Rhinel Sport Gallery, and I do a lot of coaching. I coached the Olympic team last summer in London for wrestling. And so, you know, I do do a lot of coaching. I'm like, I'm pretty confident with my coaching just because I'm still in the athletic field. You know, I'm still a competitor.

I believe I can bring a lot of the now-time fighting techniques and training to the table instead of a lot of these coaches that, you know, do all their coaching from the sideline instead of the back, you know. So it's just, I believe hopefully if we get an opportunity to do another season, I believe I get my hands on some talented athletes and I believe I win that thing. So you think that right now, regardless of what happened on the show, resume, you are a better coach than Greg Jackson, Randy Kitu of Frank Chimerach. Well, you know me, I'm going to say that, but I'm not. You know, there are better MMA coaches, okay?

I'm just, you know, I'm extremely confident in my ability to think, so sometimes I'm overconfident. But I definitely have not even the same kind of skill level in MMA as they do. And at a certain point you think you do, and then you sit down and you work with these guys. And there's so much knowledge going through Greg's mind and through Frank and Randy's mind. I mean, Randy was a captain of mine on Olympic team when I moved to the Olympic Training Center. So him, Dan Henderson, Matt Linlin, they were all my guys that I looked up to on the team. So it was a comfortable situation.

It was like a big brother. But I was able to work with Greg Jackson for this camp. for this fight. You know, Frank Shamrock's my business manager, and Randy's a good friend of mine. So I was able to keep everything right at home for this camp. It was comfortable. Well, a few interesting things there. First off, so you trained with Greg Jackson for this fight?

Yep, yep. I trained down in New Mexico for probably a month of this camp. Went down there three times for a week and a half each. A lot of muscle memory. You got to, you know, remember still in my fourth year of fighting. and, or, yeah, fourth year shit. And a lot of muscle memories starting to come around right now. I'm feeling like I'm on that teeter, totter edge,

and I actually understand all the situations in fighting. And so for me to sit back and have one of these veterans and legends teach me the little teeny, little corner steps and positioning that I wasn't understanding before, it was, you know, it's priceless. And that was your first time with Greg, so I'm assuming this all happened due to your relationship. on the show? Yes. Greg and I were good friends from the UFC,

you know, sitting backstage with Scottie and stuff, just meeting each other. He's always wanted me to come down and from the show kind of just

blossom the relationship to help me coach. So my coach, Mark Montoya, and me, we went to Randy's gym, Frank's gym, I mean, Randy's Jim,

Greg's gym, Scottie's Jim. We traveled around a lot to try to, you know, do as much as I could for this camp. And now Frank Shamrock is your business manager.

Is that correct? Oh, yeah, man. He's one of the most knowledgeable fighters or ex-fighters or ex-champs that still make money. There's not a lot of them that do. You know, he's in the entertainment field. He's extremely smart. He's got every contact I've ever seen. And I'm in this transition phase right now between fighting and, you know, color commentator

and doing things like what you're doing right now, you know. So I need a... somebody in between there that could help me make that transition into the television into whatever theatrical, whatever I was going to do, but still understand that I had some more fighting in me. So he was open-minded to taking a step forward, and he's helped me a lot. He's got a lot of things out straight. I'm making some money.

Now it's been a good fit. So you're 36 right now. Have you thought about how long you want to do this for? Yeah, I want to make one more run at this, man. And I believe I'm strongest. I've never been hurt. You know, I've never had an injury. I've never, you know, I've had a few hard knockouts,

but, you know, that just comes with the game. I believe, you know, I've got a good, hard two years in me if I want to. I would like to, you know, finish this year here with a belt and then reevaluate what's going to happen. You know, I'm open-minded to understand that this is a young man's game, and I'm getting kind of old. I believe I'm still 100%, but let's be realistic in the next few years.

That'll probably be fading off. So I'm trying to move my way into, you know, something different color commentating, maybe some news reporting to something like you guys. It seems like a little more fun to get punched in the face. So you win the tournament. You fight Dantus, right? What do you think of him?

I beat the hell out of Dantes, is what you meant to say. Right. And then I take that belt. No, he's a young stud, man. You've got to get excited about Bellator champions. You know, they're young, explosive, very exciting champs, you know, a majority of all the Bellator champs. But he's a young guy.

He's had his chin tested also. I mean, he comes from extremely good camp. You know, I'm not in a position to talk a lot of shit about him yet. I want one point at a time. Let me get through these fights. Sure. But I have a feeling in the next few months here. I'll be talking a lot of shit.

So we'll have another conversation. So you said the majority of Bellator champions are like that. What were you trying to say there? Who isn't? Well, you know, we're wrestlers. All of Bellator champions are wrestlers, man, the majority of us. And, well, it used to be. So we're not always the fun of me, Ben, you know, fight.

You can say that. But, I mean, if you want to talk about Ben Astrid, I mean, he's extremely humiliating. to people right now. He beats people from the into their life. I mean, the Russian he just beat was, I believe, one of the toughest fighters I've seen in a long, long time. And he beat him like he was like a little girl, like a little

show. It was bad. And, you know, the overpower guy like that, I'm open-minded to see what's going to happen with that, where he's going to be, where's what's going to happen, and I believe I don't know if anyone can stop him in the first place. It doesn't matter where he's going to be.

Will you be sad if he leaves Belator? Yeah, I would be. Ben's a good friend of mine. I'm a Bellator guy, you know. But Ben's a champion, man. He's looking to win as many belts as he can, and I believe that his eyes might be set on those next belts. I fight for money. He might fight a little more pride. So, you know, it all depends. You say you're a Bellator guy, and this is a very interesting time, obviously, this rivalry brewing between Bellator and UFC. Do you guys talk about that? I mean, you're a Belator guy. Scott's a UFC. guy. When you're at the events, you guys want to try to do the best show possible to get that momentum going. Is this something you think about as a quote-unquote bellator guy? No, I mean, I wanted to be a UFC champ. That was what the plan was once I started fighting. Actually, I didn't even have that plan. I just, that's what was, the UFC was the biggest thing at the time. I used fighting as a job. You know, it's a job for me. It's, you know, I wrestled

for the U.S. and the Olympic team and won world championships. That was for pride. for me, and I fight for money and for my family. And so I kind of got a different feeling about fighting than a lot of other people. They're trying to go out there, like Scotty's fighting for his life. You want to have belt so bad he can taste it. You know, I want to make sure I can take care of my family through the next year. You know, so it's a different mindset. I believe I'm just a different kind of athlete.

I'm an athlete that won at my sport before I came to mixed martial arts. And I believe I'm a little older right now, but I believe I'm as young as anyone. one in mixed martial arts when I'm in the cage. I feel, you know, explosive and excited about it. So I'm just saying I'm a Bellator guy, just meaning, you know, I started with Bellator. I came from Dream, flew back from Dream and signed with Bellator in this first season still. So I've been with Bellator since, you know, the first season. So that's why I'm a Belator guy.

I'm kind of locked down, man. I see myself as the Bellator spokesman and the guy. I'm really, really comfortable with every UFC guy there is. You know, I respect the crap out of them. But, you know, when it comes down to it, I'm always going to have Belvoir shirt on and be talking a little shit on a little shit on Spike. And instead of, in the UFC banner. But I'm always there.

I always do you at the yes. I'm the loudest guy in the corner. Yes, it's very entertaining. I wish they had a, you know, a camera just for you. But speaking of the money, do you feel like you make enough as a current? current Bellator fighter. Do you feel like you make enough to provide for your family? Yeah, you know, I'm making the cool

thing about Bellator and the reason I like going with them, you know, why Team Quest and Heath and Dan Henderson, they kind of push me that way. Actually, you know, who pushed me to Belator is Uriah. Hmm. Uriah Faber? He said, yep, yep. I was training

Uriah and Joseph B.S. and those guys they were going to fight Kidi Amamoto. And then they told them told me I was going to fight them and I got a call from Erya saying that they know how to beat this guy, that Joseph was supposed to fight him, and why don't you come out? So I just flew out to Sacramento for a month and a half before the fight

and, you know, learned how to fight from the alpha male guys. I believe they're some tough, tough boys, you know. So for those guys to teach me how to beat Kid Yamamoto and get into that situation, it's just, you know, those guys when I came back to California, They told, you know, I talked to him a little bit about Bjorn and Bellator. Remember, Bellator was paying a lot of money back then for those first belts. And so, you know, he said if someone's going to put a lot of money into you and push your brands,

you know, the UFC right now, they're going to give me a low, low budget, you know, the contract budget. And then, you know, Bellator was able to give me a little bit more and give me the opportunity of outside of the cage, you know, some color commentating. television, stuff like that, and they've stood by their promises. Everything they've offered me, they've given me. You know, Bjorn, he takes it kind of hard on the chin, but everything he's offered me and everything he's put in front of me, I've had to go and get, but he's given it to me,

and he's given me the opportunity. So, you know, they haven't really screwed me at all yet. So that's why I say I'm a Bellator guy. Interesting time for Olympic Wrestling, of course. What are the chances Joe Warren makes a run for 2016? Yeah, it's a cash, baby. If they want to pay me, I'll wrestle. I'll be happy to go win another world championship.

But let's be realistic. You know, the reason I started fighting was because the U.S. Olympic Committee couldn't pay me enough to wrestle. You know, I had two babies. I was having babies and, you know, things like that. And, you know, I had to support the family. So it was a little better to jump in a cage. But I think, I don't know about Olympic run for me, but in 2014, in Vegas, the world championships are here.

And, you know, I'm, I'm kind of excited to maybe go win one more world championship in the U.S. You're going to try to do it? I don't know. You know, you know me. I'm constantly trying to do shit. Last year, I was, I was, last year I lost my belt, and I got knocked out almost dead by Kern. And he, and I wrestled two weeks later in Olympic team trials and lost in the semis. It was real disappointing.

I thought I'd make that team. So, you know, I just keep a lot of things. Oh, I'm open-minded. I'm training hard. I'm in great shape. You're baddest man on a planet. No one could beat me. I don't believe anyone if you can.

Ken, so I just think that I'm the safest on a wrestling mat. I definitely will wrestle this year. I'll wrestle in Madison Square Garden, December 1st. I'll wrestle. I'm not sure who yet. I said I'd wrestle anybody. I was wrestling in Penn State. It'll be a big wrestling event.

December 1st, I'm going to wrestle there, maybe wrestle in the victory fighting championships in Oklahoma, I mean, Omaha, Nebraska, the 25th October. Just kind of, you know, I'm trying to do as much as I can with wrestling right now if I can. You know, we've been, Frank and me have been doing a lot of state of Olympic wrestling camps, and just trying to do anything I can to try to put my head out there to help, you know, save this sport a little bit. And for the record, you're still cool with calling yourself the baddest man on the, the planet, even though, you know, you mentioned the current fight, some other, you know, why come

on? You can't be, you got to be the baddest man. Just not win or lose, you know, I mean, you got to be able to come back from stuff, you know. You know, the measure of a champion is how we can pull himself back up after something rough. You know, and I think you see a lot of those, it's fighters, you know, rough rounds and they come back and win stuff. So I just, that was a saying that kind of came around for me to psych myself up, you know,

in the corner before I'd go out in a wrestling match. You know, it started back in like seventh grade where I was the best one, 103 founder in the state of Michigan and no one could beat me. And it just kept escalating into the baddest man on the planet. So I just got to use that for, you know, motivation, talking myself, you know, trying to get myself ready for these fights. motivate myself. I love it. And always love talking to you, love watching

you fight. This Saturday, Joe Warren returns to action. The Bellator Bantamway Tournament opening round. It's 8 p.m. Eastern on Spike TV, Bellator 98. The headlining act is Alexander Schlomenko against Brett Cooper. Joe, good luck to you. We'll talk to you very soon. Looking forward to the fight.

Thank you very much, and please, anytime I can help, just give me a call. Thank you so much. Great guy. Joe Warren stopping by. The, quote, baddest man on the planet returning to action on on Saturday. Always great talking to him. I love here. We didn't really get a chance to get into it. But just about selling yourself. Look, you lost a fight. You're still the baddest man. Why not? Talk some smack. Get people into you and into your brand. Very smart. And honestly, I feel like a lot of fighters can learn a thing or two from Mr. Joe Warren. So good stuff out of him.

Looking forward to seeing him back in action on Saturday. Okay. Very excited about our next guest. the best in the biz, one of the best in the biz, whatever you want to call him. He is one of the most, if not the most recognizable referees in the sport today, somewhat of a pioneer when it comes to MMA refereeing. And he was in the cage on Saturday night when Anthony Pettis submitted Benson Henderson in the first round via Arm Bar. Of course, I'm talking about the great Herb Dean. And he joins us on the line right now.

Herb, how are you? I'm great, especially after that introduction. Of course. I speak the truth. I speak the truth, my friend. So you were there in Milwaukee on Saturday. What a bizarre evening. What a bizarre main event because I was in the crowd. I stepped into the crowd. Usually I'm in the back as you saw me on Saturday. Just to take it all in. And honestly, along with the crowd, there was like a two, three second beat where no one really knew what had happened. No one knew that Benson-Henerson verbally tapped. What was your tape? You were ready. there you had the best scene in the house. Explain to me what you saw and then when you realized that he had tapped in, or at least verbally. Okay, well, you know, I saw him,

he put on, you know, he locked the arm bar on and, you know, he, uh, Ben was, you know, trying to defend it, you know, he was reaching across and then, you know, he went a belly down. I was moving to try to get into a better position. And at that time, that's when, that's when the tap came and he got up and, you know, he got up and immediately started celebrating. And I guess it was, you know, as far as for people not knowing exactly what happened, is usually because they're used to seeing me actually grabbed the guy and then wave it off.

But he got up so quick as soon as the tap came that, you know, I didn't get a chance to do that, you know. Did you hear the verbal tap? You know what? I heard someone saying tap. And, you know, I'm not sure if that was Ben-Sane or Petit Sane tap. But I heard the tap, so I'm let go, and, you know, Ben, it definitely tapped. Do you advise people in that position?

Let's say your showtime in the dominant position. Do you advise him to let go, or should they wait for you to break it up? I think that people should always wait for me to touch him. Huh. Even if he says he heard a pop, all that stuff, you got to do what you got to do. Exactly. So was... I wouldn't, you know, just to be on a safe shot, I wouldn't advise a fighter to get up

unless the referee and stuff. So, you know, obviously it all worked out, and Benson didn't complain or protest, but it was kind of, you know, it could have been a very big mistake on his part to let go and start celebrating, right? Well, you know, I mean, it all worked out for, you know, I mean, but I think that people are sitting, you know, we've had situations where guys stopped fighting and, you know, the referee has not stopped the fight and, you know, then they have to start fighting again. So, you know, we definitely don't want situations like that, especially in championship fight. Did you have to ask Benson, did you tap? Was that you who said tap or was that Anthony? Did you have to make sure that it was the right call? I did not check in at the winner, after it.

I knew it was the right call. Yeah, okay. The arm bar was on tight. The arm was going. You know, I knew the tap was coming and, you know, it was definitely, the arm bar was definitely done. Was that one of the more unique finishes for a big UFC main event that you've been a part of? Yeah, I mean, I don't think I've seen.

a lot of, you know, first round main event arm bar finishes, you know, submission finishes. So that was, that was, I mean, yeah, it wasn't what we were expecting, right? Yeah, especially for a guy who's never been submitted before. He's a black belt now, walks into the cage, wearing the black belt, and then finally get submitted,

doesn't, you know, unable to tap, or watching it right now. Just a, just a strange, a strange way to end, and then the crowd finally reacts. After a couple seconds, their hometown guy is now the champion. And I was talking to you about this on Saturday. You still, I mean, you've been doing this for so long, and so many of these guys have obviously been in fights where you've been the referee, but you still have to go into the back and talk to them before each fight. What do you say to them now?

You've done this for so long. They've heard it from you for so long. What do you say to them now? Well, you know, I used to, even just lately, I just started changing up. You know, guys who I see all the time, I just go back there and make sure, you know, that they are familiar with all the rules that there is. There's not any question they have come up because, you know, as long as long as. As long as we've been doing this, there's always some little question that can come up or, you know, often it's about, you know, maybe they have maybe something in particular about their opponent or maybe something they've been working on. I just want some clarification.

And then I always just make sure, and that's pretty much the same thing. I want them to know what to expect for me, so want them to know what my commands are. And when I say those instructions, I want them to know what I expect out of them. And that's basically my same spill. You probably heard it before. I go back and I tell the guys, when I say fight back, this is what I'm expecting. That means I'm thinking about stopping your fight and give me some excuse to let you stay in there. Show me something.

The main thing also I want to make sure they know before I stand them up. I'm going to talk to them first. If I say work, it means I'm going to stand you up. At that time, I want big shots where I want you to advance your position. And, you know, I'm not looking for body, body head or look like you're up against the fence working for the take down. If at that time you want to take down, it's time to burn some matches. didn't get it. When you talk to the guys, how many of them raise concerns, ask questions, or because they're in the zone at that point, are they just kind of listening to you,

and then, you know, they let you go and not really bring up anything? Well, I try to get back there, I try to get back there before they, before they, you know, are about to walk out. So most of the time, I mean, every event I go to, someone will ask me something, someone will talk to me about something. Most of the guys don't, but it will, I mean, it will be, one or two will have something to say. Do they ever say, I'm concerned because this guy does this certain thing, and I feel like it's illegal? They say that a lot. Okay, and then you have to go talk to the other guy to figure out, and then you have to go back to the original guy to tell him what he said? How does that work?

I don't have to, I don't go and talk to someone because someone's concerned about something. Okay. Because, you know, I don't want someone to get the impression that, okay, they, you know, they've gotten to the referee, you know what I mean? I'm not going to go and talk to someone just because, you know, I already know the rules. The rules are the same every time I do them. And so those are the rules I'm going to enforce. So I don't make any special enforcement because one fighter requested.

Yeah, that's a good point. I mean, you just have to, you know, be aware of everything. But so what I do is I'll clarify. So let's say they say, well, I'm worried about this. I'm worried about his elbow to the back of the head. Guys are doing this elbow, da-da-da. So then what I'll do is I'll go over and clarify what exactly is the back of the head and, you know, what is maybe, might be a borderline elbow and what wouldn't be, and what exactly I'm going to call and what's not going to be called, you know.

Do you usually find out on fight night which fights will be reffing, right? You don't know beforehand, usually? I usually find out on fight night. Sometimes lately I've found out a little bit beforehand, you know, different commissions do it differently. So, you know, sometimes they'll send me something and, you know, it shows the assignment already. Most of the time, though, I find out when you get there. If you know beforehand, will you study those fighters that you'll be reffing to get a sense for their tendencies, or do you prefer not to do that? Well, I mean, sometimes I usually don't.

I mean, I do like to know, I mean, sometimes having some knowledge of the fighters helps you. But at the same time, you know, my job should be the same. I should try to have consistent criteria so that it shouldn't rely on, you know, knowing the fighter. but at the same time knowing the fighter does help like that Frank Mirr drops really fast like you know he got caught with that

you know he when he falls he kind of falls fat you know what I mean yeah I've seen drop like that before but you know he also tends to get it back together you know what do you think of that stoppage I mean the thing I was like

I mean you know I want to say it was a bad stop because you know I mean he was definitely hurt you know I mean, if I'm going to raise it on a scale of 1 to 10, I'm not going to say it. You know, it was the best textbook stop. You know what I mean?

Maybe he could have turned a corner, but he was the one in there, and he's going to and saw him fall. So, I mean, I don't think it was something that should have got booed, but, you know, people did want to see the fight. You say a textbook stop, and this has been talked about, you know, obviously on Saturday it was talked about, but we saw Travis Brown. You know, he came back, and then he knocked out over him. We saw it with Lesner and Carwood.

We've seen it many times before. What is a textbook stoppage? When do you know you have to go in there and stop the fight? And when do you give the guy the benefit of the doubt? Well, I mean, every situation is different. I mean, my job is to, and every stop is different. My job is to keep these guys from receiving any unnecessary injuries because the fight is done.

If someone's unconscious, of course, they can't fight back, and you have to be sure they're unconscious because we make these split-second call. You know, and you, and so that's... That's, you know, your job to go on and do it, especially with, you know, but you've got to be careful when you stop it when someone falls. You know, if I see somebody fall face forward, I'm going to stop the fight, you know. I mean, or if I see someone fall, they fall backwards, I'm going to, and I see them fall and I see their hands open and fall straight back. And if someone's coming in to throw another punch, they obviously didn't fall into a defensive position. They're not going to get their arms up in time to stop that other punch.

they, you know, they fell back and they're still unconscious, I'm going to stop it. If I see someone get dazed and on the way down, their body is starting to try to respond. They're trying to come into a defensive position. Then I'm going to see if they can work it out and work through. And everyone is different. Are you a big talker in the cage? You like to talk to the guys? I do.

I try to talk. I try to talk. I mean, I prefer to talk than interfere. So if I see things that look like they could be low blows, you know, I try to give guys. warning because, I mean, taking a point is huge in a three-round fight. So, I try to do whatever I can to avoid that.

If it's talking to the guys, say, well, watch this, watch that, or, you know, hey, I'm going to, you know, I need you to work, you know, so that I don't have to stand you up. Fight back. I mean, you know what I mean? I need you to show me that you want to fight. So, yeah, so there's all, or even warning,

like, let's say, you know, I've taken a point for someone because of a file they committed, and sometimes, some of the fighters still seem somewhat confused as to what sometimes may be, you know, an illegal elbow and whatnot and what's not. You know, sometimes I see these guys, and now they're throwing an elbow and then the guy looks a little confused. I'll let him know.

That's good. That's, you know, so, yeah, there's a lot of different reasons to talk inside the cage. What percentage, in your opinion, of the referees out there right now that we see at the UFC events, Belvoir, all that stuff, that are being used state-to-state, know the full unified rules of MMA. In your opinion, what percentage? Well, I think they, I hope they all do. I think they do. I think at one time,

you know, it was a little bit, there were a few guys who didn't know the full unified rules. They knew the fouls and they didn't, you know, but they're I believe they're worse. But I think lately at this point, everyone knows the rules. There are clinics, there are, and that's something that's been really getting better,

is because the athletic commissions are making sure the guys have to go through clinics and things like that. People do know the full world. You have a clinic coming up, right, November? Yeah, I do, November 8th and 9th in Pasadena, California. It's a good thing. I'm really excited about it. My last one was great. There are 20 people there.

People came from all over the world. I had a guy from Dubai, a guy came out from Australia, Malaysia, guys from Brazil. I had a guy from Germany. I think that guy from Germany was probably the most prepared student I've ever had. Wow. The guy, I swear, he had, I'm not exaggerating.

I think he had hundreds of questions for me, all written down. Wow. And in class, he got to the point where, you know, and perhaps just one more question for you. And then it would be one more. And then finally, because he had so many questions, you know, I had the meeting for, I met in Rhodeswood.

next day. He and another one, there's a black bone, came up in Brazil, so we went to my school, and we moved around, and then we hung out for an hour, and he broke out his notepad and fired question after question after question, and then we went to lunch the next day, question after question after question. So it was good for me to have somebody asked that many questions. And how many people usually show up for these? Usually I have 10, about 10 to 12. That's what I usually cut it off at, but since I knew I hadn't done one for a while, I knew there's going to be a, you know, a little bit bigger response. I made sure I had more people there to help me out so that I could do it with 20 people.

Okay. So, sorry, for the one coming up in November, where can people sign up or learn more about it? Herdeen.com. Okay. Go Herddeen.com. It's on the website. And, you know, it gives them all the information. The sooner you sign up, the better it is because I send out study materials before here.

Oh, really? What kind of study materials are you talking about? Well, I make sure that they get the unified rules and that they get all the, they get all the, They get all the stuff that I use in the course. That way they can make sure that they learn things, that they have questions to ask when they show up, you know. And this is a two-day... Go ahead.

Yeah. Okay, so, you know, there's some things we send out. Like, you know, there's different things that... Different officials have written over the years, even stuff from boxing and kickboxing, you know, like someone might have written. You know, there's one thing I use is a paper called The Art of Comparative, judging comparative damage and things like that.

So, you know, give them... Yeah, so stuff like that. they get those things before here. So this is a two-day seminar. How do they pass? And then if they do pass, what happens? Can they just go and ref any event? Yeah, okay.

So what is, it's a two-day seminar. The first day is everything that judges and referees both need to know. Okay. The second day is all referee-specific. You know, so if you're a referee, you're going to do judging also because referees are expected to be able to judge. And then also the first day we do that, and then we go over about results.

We go over, you know, what should be a 10-8 much to be a 10-9. We watch a lot of fights. And then, you know, I make sure that they understand the unified rules and how to use the scoring criteria. And then after that, my favorite part is we do some technique screening. So we want to make sure that people who are doing this actually know the sport, you know, we don't want to win. You know, a lot of times people watch it on TV and they've been watching it at the beginning. They believe that they understand exactly how the, you know, the techniques you're done. And you need to know it at a detailed level. So you need to have actually trained. So,

what happens is guys teach me technique, and I videotape it. Okay. And then, uh, it, huh? And then when, when it's done, like, do they have to pass some kind of test? Yeah, there's a written test. Oh, okay. And that technique screening is also part of the test because, you know, people get in there and they actually try to start making up techniques.

But, yeah, they, they, they, they, uh, there's a test, make sure that they understand the rules and, uh, and then make sure they understand the sport. And then after you pass the test, you can actually, there's a shadow event. as part of the course. So on the second day, there's an amateur fight. I take the guys out to an amateur fight. Those who did pass actually get some experience by refereeing and judging at that match. Oh, wow.

You know, you mentioned... Go ahead. So that they do get a license for doing amateur if you pass. Okay. How does someone become pro? Well, it depends on where they're at. And in California, you have to do a certain amount of amateur matches. And then, you know, you get reviewed.

and then you apply for a pro license, and they look at it, and if there's a need for another pro, then you get higher. You mentioned the scoring. Can you explain, in a short amount of words, what's the difference between a 10-8 and 10-9? I feel like, you know, on Wednesday in Indianapolis, we saw a couple 10-8s, and some of them I think we're right, but it just seems so inconsistent.

And, of course, 10-7 is like a unicorn. Tell us. Right. Yeah, and I think it's difficult to say. I mean, because what... I guess what you want to say, because, you know, there used to be... We used to say the D word, but we don't say that anymore.

So you want to see someone being effective. So that means that you... I have to interrupt. I have to interrupt. The D word is damage? Yeah. And why can't you say that anymore? Well, I mean, I just said it, but...

Okay. But, you know, that's just not the way that we're... That we're valuing. And when someone is being effective as to what we use. Why... Why this... Why was this change important to make? You know what?

I wasn't there when they changed it, so I really don't know exactly the detail of. But I guess they believe that, you know, this is a better word. Okay, okay. Continue. Better word, whatever reason, you know. And I think so. Basically, to get a 10-8, you need to control the pace. You need to control the fight, and you need to be effective.

if you need to be at some point, you know, a good example. I mean, an easy way to say it, if it looks like the referee is going to stop the fight at some time or another and the guys dominating throughout the round controlling the round, then that should be a 10-A. We don't want people to continue to get the same amount of credit. that when there's, you know, let's say there's a round where someone just barely squeaks by. And then there's a round where someone dominates someone from beginning to the end of the round. You know, those guys are still getting the same amount of credit.

So you have a situation where somebody wins around strongly. And then his opponent barely squeaks the round by, I mean, where it might have, the difference might have been two jabs, and they're getting the same reward, the same result. Do you like the 10 point must system? You know, I think the thing about it, I think that people need to talk more so that, yeah, I think there isn't a need for more 10-8s. I think if we start doing that, then I think the system, you know, could be good. But right now, as it is, we need to start using it differently. You need to start being more 10-8s.

Now, how do you feel about 10-10s or half-points, which have been dabbled with? Well, the half-point system, they tried to give that, and that's basically, I mean, the half-point system would be, I guess, the same, in a sense, you might get the same response from using the half-point system as if people were giving more 10-8s. We just need people to start using you know, the rule,

the measurements a little bit differently. You can't just give 10-9 for everything. When's the last time you judged? I judged probably a few months ago. Okay, and you were about to say something about I'm assuming the 10-10? How do you feel about that?

Well, the 10-10, your job is to be able to see some difference, but I think if you honestly can't see a difference, I don't think that you should make up and just arbitrary to get, I mean, just toss it out to, you know, a 10-9 to someone when you don't see a difference between them. So I think a 10-10 is what you should do. Yeah, no one uses 10-10s. They're very rare. Yeah, and it should be. You know, if you can't see a difference, you know, have you ever watched around when you just could not see a difference? Right. Yeah. Yeah, I think you should, you know, I think you should

tell the truth. A lot of people who are newer fans may not know this about you, but you've been a part of many MMA fights, not as a referee, but as an actual fighter. Why'd you stop fighting? Well, you know, I got into refereeing the sport because I, you know,

I enjoy the sport. I, you know, I used to kickbox, and then one of the guys was in my kickboxing gym, you know, James, you know, and I've been into the sports since then. I trained with Larry Lammas, who was also a referee, and that time I started referee. And so, I mean, I fight because, you know, I enjoy doing it. And it's, I miss doing it. But at the same time, I'm not the greatest fighter in the world. You know what I mean? I'm,

you know, I'm average and I do it for fun. And also, you know, quote, frame here, I do it because it makes me a better person, you know what I mean? I grow from each fight. And so, you know, that's why I did it. The reason why I stopped is because our sport has grown up enough now where It's a conflict of interest. It's considered it's a perceived conflict of interest for the referees to fight. I don't know. I'm not going to choose one or the other. I'm definitely going to...

Yeah, I don't know if I agree with that, though. Do you agree with that? That it's a conflict? You know, I don't agree that we should be policed that way. I think that they should leave it up to us to make the right choices. What's the difference? How is it a conflict? I can understand maybe if you work for the UFC, if you're fighting for the UFC,

but if you're fighting on a local show, is that what they're thinking? Like, you don't want to fight for the promoter? It's all... Well, no, it all spreads, I guess. You know, you can't just say because a sport is bigger than just the UFC. Sure, sure. So let's say I fight somebody at a local show, and then I end up refereeing him later on in the UFC. Yeah.

So maybe that's what they're looking out for, or maybe I fight somebody at a local show, and then later on down the road, one of the guys he trains, because maybe he doesn't fight anymore, but one of the guys he trains, there and they could say, well, maybe you did this because, you know, that guy beat you back then or blah, blah, blah. Nah, I could see that. But if it wasn't a conflict, would you still fight? Oh, I would continue to do it, yeah.

Yeah. I enjoy it. That'd be fun. How about a referee versus referee fight, like you versus Merguillata? Well, I definitely don't want to fight big damn Margarita. I mean, but, you know, I don't think he can make heavyweight, so, okay. Because I think the man weighs about 300 pounds. Yeah, he's a big boy.

I'm sure you've shaken his hand. I mean, his paws are massive. By the way, I wanted to ask you one of the things about rules that have been changed. What do you think about the three-point stance thing where guys are going down to avoid the knee? They've talked about outlying that. What's your take on that? Well, they have changes. I think they've changed.

And it's something that the referees were already doing. Yeah. You know, if somebody intentionally did that to draw a foul, you know, you could choose to enforce that or not, you know what I mean? And so, I mean, and I've done that before where someone did that and then looked at me like, hey, I've been filed. And I'm like, well, I'm not here to help you win your fights. I'm not here, you know, to help you for you to draw a foul, you know.

So we don't want people to push in the rules that way. So now they've just written it. So it's not referee making a, you know. making that decision on their own. All right, that makes sense. I feel like I could talk to you for an hour about this stuff, but we do have to go, Herb. This was a lot of fun. Thanks for stopping by.

Tell us one more time. It's Herbdeen.com. It's a great website. You updated all the time with your travels and people you meet along the way. Herbdeen.com, that's where they go to sign up for the camp, and then it's early November in California, right? Exactly. Thank you.

You summed it up. November 8th and 9th in Pasadena, California. It's the Herb Dean MMA referee camp. A lot of people complain about the refs. A lot of people, you know, have their two cents. We'll go out there and learn about it from the best in the biz, Herb Dean. Yeah, it was a good time. We do it at my school at the Fight Academy.

And, you know, stop by and train, too, you know. Great. Thank you so much, Herb. Always a pleasure. We'll talk to you soon. Thank you. There he is. Herb Dean, the man with the dreadlocks stopping by.

He was there on Saturday night in the main event. And he didn't have to do much to stop it because Anthony Pettis just did it for him. But interesting, he says, technically, Anthony should have waited for him. Bento could have gotten seriously injured as a result of that. So I guess you got to give Anthony props, kind of like Brian Stan, not throwing that extra punch against Alessio Sokara. In Sweden, he heard a pop and he let go. Now, speaking of Benson and Frank Meir, we talked about, and we also talked about Carlos Condit, one thing all these men and many others have in common is that they have the honor of being managed by this man.

Oh, Malki Kawa, look at that. In front of the white backdrop, just chilling like it ain't no thing. Well, you know, thank you for the introduction area, but it's more like I have the honor of representing them. You know what I mean? I don't want to get it twisted here, but... Sure. Are you at like a Miami white party?

What's going on with that backdrop? No, that's my headboard to my bed guy. Wow, your bed? You're just chilling. It's a Labor Day. I thought you don't take days off. I don't, but what happened is there's a bad thunderstorm. And because of this show, which threw a big wrench in my plans today, I was at the office, power went out, and I came all the way home just to, uh...

Wow. Just to get, you know, just to get on the show, make sure I committed to what I told you I was going to do, so... It looks like you just woke up. No, at all, man. I've just been, what do you call it? I've been still recovering from this stupid Saturday night, man. It was the worst night I think professionally I've had in my entire career. Okay, so let's get into it. Benson, Frank, Clay Guida, anyone else on the card? That was it.

0 for 3. So would you say it was the worst night for you? Yeah, it definitely was. The reason why, it's not because it's not like I've never had three guys losing a card before. I don't think that's the issue for me. What was the issue for me is that you tell me that a guy who's never been knocked out professionally in his career is going to get knocked out. A guy who, we all know, is pretty much unsubmittable if that really exists out there and get submitted. And, you know, in the championship fight.

And then, you know, Frank's fight with the whole early stoppage and all that. It was just one of those things were just an emotional nightmare for me. And, you know, it was probably the worst night I think I've had as a manager so far. And you were there with your wonderful daughter. How did she react to all this? Who's a huge MMA fan? She's still can't get over. She told me today.

She's like, Daddy, is it a night? Am I in a nightmare? I mean, is this really happened? Did it really go like that? Did Penn really get submitted? And I'm like, yeah, she did. And she can't believe it either. She's, you know, she's a huge fan.

She likes all the fighters. She loves them all, but she's got her favorites, and she's got ones that she doesn't like, and she's taking it pretty hard as well. Let's start from the top. Benson, how's his arm? Any update? Not yet. I should know something hopefully by the end of today. I know that they were hoping to get him to memorize

and x-rays yesterday, and I don't know if that happens. I think it's either happening today or tomorrow. He did a good job of covering it up, but we know he's a very emotional and tense guy, and you could see in his eyes that he did have a good cry backstage. How did he handle it all? I think he handled it as best as anybody could. I think, you know, he definitely had his moment backstage.

I sat there and I watched it. I think that was probably one of the things also that really got me is because I've never really felt so helpless as a manager before. You know, a lot of things can happen, whether it's the UFC or fans or, you know, something that may come up. You know, I dealt with, like, you know, John's DUI, this, that, the other. And, you know, we always been able to do something about it, you know. And this was the one time that I kind of sat there and watched them and just didn't know what to do.

I didn't know if I should say something, not say something, you know, do you say, you know, great job, better luck next time. Do you say, hey, you know, not your night? I mean, what do you do? You know what I mean? I just said there and it broke my heart. I couldn't, you know, couldn't help or watch that. But I also at the same time watched a guy kind of say, okay, this happened. It's time to go, move on from this.

And I'm going to come back on a vengeance. and he did this once before. And, you know, the first fight I worked with him was the Pettist fight in W.C. The same thing happened, and he came back from it where you saw what happened to Boecheck and Jim Miller. You know what I mean? Respectively, he went in and he dominated those guys. And I just really, I kind of feel sorry for whoever's going to fight next because I know that this guy is going to end up taking it all out on whoever is next. He's going to prove a point.

I think he's going to come back and he's going to make a run for it again. What would you like to see him do next? Who would you like to see him fight? Well, I think my conversation with the UFC is going to be, whoever is in line, you know, Ben would like to fight them. So whoever it is next is my thing. Because I think if we can get Ben, you know, because Dana came out already and said that, you know, that he doesn't see them rematch. Yeah. Well, if it goes out and knocks out or submits three or four of the supposed number one contenders, then I think he can't be denied.

So the reality of it is, you know, whoever the number one guy is just to keep you go after them. Same thing we did when we first came to the UFC. It was like, all right, who do you want us to fight? I think Boecheck was available. Then Jim Miller was the number one guy. And it was Clay. And then, you know, he got the title shot. So.

But are you disappointed? Dana said what he said, that right now, I mean, foreseeable future doesn't look like he'll get a third shot because he lost to him twice. I mean, it's a little disappointing to say that, but I can understand where he's coming from with it. I don't necessarily agree with it. The first loss was in another organization. It was a long time ago. You know what I mean?

Ben was undefeated in the UFC at 7-0. And the reality of it has Ben made a mistake in the fight. got caught and hats off the pettus because i mean you know like i said if you would have told me ben was getting submitted i'd have told you you know that you were crazy and if this was a five-round fight like last time and he won this decision you know i probably wouldn't be so you know hurt by the by the thing but it was just one of those devastating nights and hats off the peddiss again because you know he did it but um i i just think that at the end of the day when you can't deny somebody you can't deny somebody you know what i mean it's not like we're asking

the fight you know lower level 155 pounds i'm talking about you know everybody in the top five you know what i mean somebody he's going to want to fight and and i'll get right back there. So if it gets to the point where, you know, they find the number one guy to fight. I'm like, let's say TJ gets the next fight, or even Aldo. If Aldo fights him at whatever weight class, you know what I mean, there's got to be fights out there that Ben can have. You know what I mean? He's, you know, he tied the record for the most defenses with BJ Penn. So it puts him up there as one of the all-time greats in that division. You can't take that away from him. I don't care what, you know, the fights were. So if he goes back out there and goes on another

tear, I mean, I think he gets the, he gets the opportunity to, to revenge him. Why did he decide to braid his hair? I think it was just most people, you know, we're telling him he should get the hair out of his face. And the last fight with Gilbert, you know, I think he got punched. Gilbert kind of timed every time he would go fix his hair. Yeah. And he hit him every time it seemed like he went to go fix it, he'd catch him.

So it just got to the point that, you know, we felt like maybe every time somebody also threw a punch, he'd put his head back or move his head one way or another, the hair would go flying, and it made a lot of these fights look a lot closer than they really were. Because if you go back and watch these fights, a lot of the ones that are all, this is crazy, split decision, this and that, and the other, they're really, in my opinion, you know, even at every single fight that I've been at, sitting around stands, people will tell you the Frankie fight, both of them, the Gilbert Melinda's fight. I sat there and called each decision exactly as the way a lot of these judges saw it, some four rounds to one, some three rounds to two, but it wasn't, in my opinion, that close.

You know what I mean? I thought he beat most guys. I don't think anybody did anything to beat him, so, and it showed in people's faces, faces. He came out of every fight without a marker scratch on his face. What do you think of the stoppage in the mere Barnett fight? Too early? Yeah, it was too early. It was definitely too early. You know, talking to Frank, Frank was completely aware and conscious of what was going on. He wasn't, you know, rocked. He didn't want to get hit again.

Frank wanted this fight to go to the ground. I think, you know, at some point Frank wanted to go to the ground. So he took that knee. Instead of putting a hand down, he says that he kind of like jumped down, you know, and landed on all fours. So he wouldn't get there again. But then when you, which, whether that's true or not, if Barnett comes and throws at least one punch

and the referee stops it without Frank doing anything, then I could say, okay, well look, you threw a punch and then happened, but he didn't even throw a punch, he just got down there, and he immediately went to stop the fight. And that same referee actually came into the locker room and gave Frank and the team a speech about how he's not squirmish and that he will let the fight go, you know what I mean,

so that these guys will get an opportunity to fight and they better, you know, respond because he will let it go. If they're sitting there trying to defend and fight back, he'll let it go. He's not going to just stop the fight. And he went exactly against everything he said. That's three in a row for Frank. Do you still think he wants to fight? Yes, he definitely wants to fight.

You know what sucks? Frank has actually improved. He's actually gotten better, and he hasn't had an opportunity to really show it. And that's where I think is the frustration that's amongst everyone on this team, including Frank. We had a long conversation yesterday, and he told me, he says, you know, what sucks is that my cardio is better. I'm actually in the best shape I've ever been in my life. I'm working on techniques that I've never worked on before. I've got a better arsenal stuff,

and I have yet to be able to show it. Even in this fight with Barnett, you know what I mean? There's certain things that I should have done differently. And I allowed myself to get caught in that same, you know, trap. And it's like, you know, it's kind of just waiting for him not to kind of just execute. You know what I mean? But, you know, we'll see what happens.

I just, I think that he's going to have, he has a couple more fights in him. You know, if you look at his career, he doesn't have 40 fights. You know what I mean? He's relatively, you know, for a guy as long as he's been in this game, doesn't have that many fights compared to everyone else. So I think he just, you know, we'll try to look for a fight for him and see if we can get him back in the cage as soon as possible and then turn around and, you know, and see what happens.

UFC's going to bring him back, though, right? I mean, it's crazy to even think that they wouldn't. Yeah, I would hope not. I mean, I would hope so. I think that's what's going to happen. You know, no one said anything to me. I haven't spoken to anyone. Labor Day, obviously, so tomorrow I'll get on the phone.

I mean, I don't even know if anybody will be around tomorrow. I got to see if I can get a hold of Joe and Dana and them, but I don't know if they're going to Brazil or who's going to Brazil. But I'll figure it out by the end of the week for sure. Labor Day. How about these slackers taking off the day? You know, you don't take off. Dude, I'm proud of you.

I'm proud of you. You're in the show on Labor Day on Monday. Yeah. It's pretty good stuff. Yeah, that's right. Clay Guida. What do you think? Do you think he gets another shot?

Because I got the impression that this was a very important one for him after the last fight was controversial of the mainter fight they didn't like. Do you think he gets another shot? And will it be at 145? I don't know. That's something that, you know, the team's going to discuss this week. We'll figure it out. But you know, I think he does get a different other shot. I mean, you know, Arrow, it's so funny how in MMA were only as good as our last fights. But before the Great Maynard fight, everybody loved watching Clay.

He came out there. He always put on a show. The guy stayed busy. You know what I mean? Do we forget the Clay, Guida? Ben Henderson fight on Fox. You know, a year or so ago, when the very first Fox won or a year and a half ago, when they stole the show and everybody was pissed that they weren't on the main card and stuff like that. I mean, this is a guy that can fight, and he brings it. it every single time. And I think he's a force,

the 145-pound weight class. And for as long as he wants to fight, I think he deserves another shot. I mean, it goes to show you how good Chad Mendez is. He knocked out a guy who's never been knocked out in 40-something fights, man.

You know what I mean? Think about that for a second. And I've always said it too. Chad Mendez to me is a great fighter. I think that kid definitely is money, and I think that kid's going to go on to do great things. But not to take anything away from Clay.

The fight wasn't boring. I thought they both kept very busy. And I thought actually his game plan was working pretty well. I mean, it got to the point where, you know, Chad was beating him by taking him down. You know what I mean? It wasn't really a domination up top.

I thought he was in there. They were swinging. And then eventually he got caught and Chad's got enough power to finish people. That's off to Chad Mendez. That was his 44th professional fight. First time he had been K-O'd or T-KO. So, you know, obviously a great feat for Chad Mendez. It feels like it was like, you know, 10 years ago after what happened on Saturday. But on Wednesday of last week, Carlos Condit had a massive win.

such an impressive dominant win over Martin Campman. And then everyone, you know, you lose two in a row, you win one, and then we start talking about title shots. Realistically, I don't think that's going to happen. What do you think they'll do with Carlos next? Well, I think Carlos definitely is going to fight somebody who's a number one contender somewhere. He has to.

I don't know anyone else that realistically is that guy, especially after that win over Martin Camden. So I think most of the top 170 ponderers are booked right now, and we'll see what happens. But, you know, my thing is that, If Johnny Hendricks wins the belt, I think that, you know, definitely Carlos can make a statement

to getting in there and fighting Johnny Hendricks. I don't think anybody doubts that if that fight would have went five rounds, that Carl would probably end up finishing Johnny. And it was a really good fight as well. Yeah, but think about this. It's like Anderson, if Johnny beats George, George is probably getting a rematch.

If Alexander beats John Jones, John Jones is probably getting a rematch. You know what I mean? No, you're probably, listen. You're probably absolutely right. And I wouldn't be upset if that happened. But then again, remember, let's say George gets hurt. If Johnny knocks him out

if something happens He gets hurt Then I would think That Carlos is the guy If George beats Johnny I would think that Carlos needs one more Big win over somebody

I mean listen Here's the bottom line I don't think if Rory MacDonald Beats Robbie Loller He gets the next shot At George And let's say he doesn't want to fight George That whole scenario starts happening

Then one You know what I mean I think you get that rematch To happen between Carlos and Rory For the number one spot And if Carlos beats him And beats him impressively

Then I think that you You know We can argue A fight for the minute I mean Here's the thing Although the George St. Pierre fight with Carlos

was, you know, at the end of it all, one-sided in Georgia's favor, it really was a great fight. I think it was the best fight Carlos has been in, I mean, I'm sorry, that Georgia's been in over the last two years, you could say, the most exciting out of all of them, maybe more than that. Yeah. Could we agree on that? Sure. So why wouldn't you do that? I mean, if the guy goes in trains and, you know, is getting better at his stuff and George's

out there training, doing his thing, I think people would actually buy the Carlos Condit, George St. Pierre rematch, especially if Carlos shows that he can, you know, help defend that take down a little bit more. and knock out some more of the big-name guys in that division. The Malkikawa Empire has grown recently. I was going to ask you about if you're happy with your stable of fighters or if you're on the prow, and then I quickly remember that your stable has grown recently

due to a partnership, right? Yes. What's that partnership? With who? I did a strategic partnership with the VFD guys, John Fosco and Elie Desha, because those guys, what they did, what they concentrate on,

primarily is marketing. And a big aspect of these fighters pay is sponsorship. And the sponsorship market in the last year, year and a half has pretty much dwindled down the drain. So there's two, you know, there's two sides to the business. There's the UFC side where you've got to go out and recruit guys, do contracts, all that stuff,

set the fights and, you know, the whole nine. And then there's the marketing side of it. And when you have a stable of guys, especially guys like John Jones and Ben Henderson and Carlos Condit and Frank Mears that require more time and more effort, to pay attention to, then you've got a whole group of other guys that are still coming up, that are top ten contenders, or that are in the, you know, on the verge of becoming something that need a certain amount of attention, especially when it comes to marketing them to the sponsors

and to the different, you know, companies out there. So these guys are really good at what they do. When you look around the MMA landscape, they've got a very ingenious way of doing stuff. They go to the corporations, and what they do is try to snatch up the budget of the corporation to be the exclusive person to that corporation. So, for example, they represent muscle farm. So all those muscle farm sponsorships you see in the Octagon, they're the ones to do it. Same thing with Safe Auto and a couple other companies.

So now, you know, it makes it easier. I can, you know, I have, you know, a partnership to where, all right, X, Y, Z guys fighting today, you know, we need this, this, this, this, and this. And these guys just turn on and make it happen. Not only that, now I've picked up their clients, I managed their clients and go and get them, you know, the best UFC contracts out there because I'm the only managers out there getting those type of deals right now. So that being said, you know what I mean?

It just kind of works out perfect for our roster, both of our rosters, but mainly, you know what I mean, to all the fighters in the UFC now, because if they were to come to our company, they would automatically have a lot of these sponsorships that we control the budgets for. And, you know, having my client list now something that they can market, they can go to corporations be like, hey, look, this is what we can do, and here's the guys that you can have.

And a lot of companies looking at, like, wait, hold on a second. You know what I mean? We want to be associated with Ben Henderson, Carlos Condit, John Jones, this guy and that guy you know what i mean so it just helps everything out just strengthens the team all the way across the board so which fighters are we talking about here who's now part of the team Travis brown uh clay guida eric Perez uh Derek brunson and i think that's about it those are the four new guys that came on were you checking texts there or something yeah i'm working on my phone sorry buddy breaking news

what do you got yeah what do you got tell you come on you come on the show you get breaking news you get news, the least you could do is actually share the news with us. No one's watching. It's Labor Day. Yeah, but it's not breaking news, though. It's not. It was breaking news like that. I'll say, not in your world. My world is breaking news. Hmm. It doesn't sound very interesting. Now, you made, you took a little shot at your fellow managers. You're the only guy that can get these contracts. Why do you think that is? Why are you getting better deals for your clients in your opinion than these other guys? I just think I understand it a little bit better than these guys. You see, Ariel, our business is strictly set up on crying and completely.

complaining and, you know, we need to get the unions and we need to do this and we need to do that. Nobody goes and puts time into the research and the effort and to really understand how the system works. And I think that at the, you know, when I sit down and I look at it, the guys I have around me, the teammates that I have that are very friendly with the UFC, that Dana and Lorenzo respect and like and deal with before me and after me and the whole nine. You know what I mean? I'm able to sit down with them and show them certain things and certain things. And then they're able to sit down and tell me the same stuff and I understand it. And I think that's where, you know, I'm able to get certain, you know, things across to them, and they get things across to me where I grasp it. I go figure out what they need.

And then at the end of the day, they figure out what I need, and it just makes it happen. So a lot of the fighters, you know what I mean, are taking care of. And, you know, when I did that article a couple weeks back about the whole Bellator thing, everybody's like, oh, you know, he's kissing the UFC's ass on that. And the reality of it is, you know, people can think what they want. But me and Dana aren't best of friends. It's not like we're having dinner out there every week. And we're talking about, you know, the biggest moves out there. We're really not.

It's just I think there's a mutual respect. You know what I mean? I respect what they've done. I respect what they do. I understand why they do the things they do. Instead of trying to fight it because it just sounds right to do that. You know what I mean? I work with it and I make it work to where my fighters benefit from it all the way across the board.

And that's why I think that when you sit down and look at it, there's only a few guys out there that are really, you know, massively paid, right? And you look at it, you think across your top of your head, John Jones, George St. Pierre, Anderson Silva. After that, realistically, there's, you know, who else? And that's where, you know, I've kind of stepped in and I've kind of bridged that gap for the Carlos Condits, the Ben Henderson's, you know what I mean? The Frank Mears. I mean, listen, Frank Mears was in this business

way before I got into this business. And he'll tell you that the best contract he ever had was when I met him, going into that fight with Junior for the belt. But this guy held the belt before two times, right? And, I mean, I don't want to get into what the contract got, but he got things in this contract he never got before. Like what?

And, you know, his pay went up. I mean, just things, just general. Well, you can't just throw it. it out there. You've got to tell us what we're talking about here. Whatever, I can't, because I don't want to, you know, I don't want to sit here and destroy things for a listen. What if a fighter is listening to this? If a fighter's listening

and they sit here and say, well, hell, you know, what's Frank getting that I'm not? Then have them call me and I'll tell them. But I'm not going to put it out there because obviously that fighter's not happy with his manager. Put it like this. My fighters are happy because they know you're getting their stuff maximized. When they're not, when they're not happy, it's because there's a problem, whether it's with me or anyone. So

for a lot of fighters sometimes, you know what I mean? Some guys, if you got to understand, you see, when I look at the whole scope of our industry most managers are paying their fighters to be with them I'm not so when a guy is with a guy and he's making you know 30 and 30 and he's the number one contender right and there's no you know there's no other side money

there's no other performance bonuses or whatever it is that hasn't been negotiated my guys are getting that the ones who deserve it are getting it so if a fighter's sitting there and he's with another guy and I'm telling you this out publicly that they can make more money or they can do things that I can do things other managers can't

and they don't, you know, switch or to come over, it's not because they don't want to make more money, it's because they're stuck. And that's why I've always told fighters, don't sign contracts with managers, well, you're in there for years because there's no point. But if you're taking money from them, then you're stuck, and that's what happens.

You basically let a manager off the line. That's why when all this union talk, let's get a union and stuff, these managers haven't worked hard to sit here and change anything. They haven't gone out and tried to make more money for their guys. They'd rather have somebody else do it. That's what the union does. Why would a manager pay a fighter to, you know, to have him represent him?

I don't know, but that's what a lot of them do. That's what a lot of them do. In that case, do fighters come up to you and ask you for money? And if so, what do you say? I don't. Like if someone says, oh, I heard this guy in my gym is getting, you know, X amount to be with this guy, why don't you pay me? If I don't pay John Jones, why would I pay you? And there's nobody in this sport that's bigger than John Jones.

How much is he making for his fight against Gustafson? A lot. What are we talking? ballpark most ever does it go up every fight i'll put it like this i'll put it to like this john jones's last contract that we did for him um is an NFL style contract what does that mean guaranteed money you know what i mean he's got bonuses he's got you know the stuff in there and when you add it all up at the end of his term i mean john will be in in double digits you know what i mean you'll be up in the double digit seven figure range i mean eight figure range almost you know i mean so it's like

there's a lot of money there and you know again it's what i'm trying to tell you it's i i i I think that, you know, he's a singular guy. I think him, guys like George Anderson, they're the ones who are probably going to be at the top of the pay scale. And I think there's a lot of other guys, you know, that are looking up to them. And I think those are the ones that when they win belts and get out there and start selling fights and, you know, their drawing and pay-per-views will make some good money if they've got the right team and can present it correctly to the UFC. Do you refuse to work with Bellator? Yeah.

Why? I won't do it. Why? You know, look, I want to make it clear. I want to set the record straight on Belator. It's not that I don't like the fact that another promotion has come up or that another promotion is out there trying to do fights. I think that's great.

I work with the RFA, CFA, MFA, legacy fighting out of Houston, so many promotions that I've dealt with. And when I've talked to the fighters that I've had come from Belator or that go to Belator or that have been on the United States, or that I've been on the legacy, they've all told me that they like it better at the smaller regional shows, like Beloit like Legacy or like CFA

or whatever than they do at Bellatory. I talk to managers who tell me, you know, after that article came out, you're absolutely right. I've got this guy who hasn't fought for a whole year. They've given one fight and he hasn't fought for the rest of the year. He's got one fight this entire year. Was your guy hurt?

No. Sitting guys down, you get to the fights. It's not taking care of the way the UFC does. It's not as professionally done as the UFC does it. And there's a lot of issues also because there's a lot of things, a lot of statements they'll make, a lot of deals that they'll try to make with you, and then they'll try to go back on them. There's a lot of underhanded stuff that has happened. So my experiences with Dana and Lorenzo are very simple.

There's things that they've said we'll do without it being on a piece of paper, without a contract, and it gets done. Every single time, I haven't had one thing that they said that they would do that they've taken back. I don't care what it is. Even after UFC 151 cancellation with John Jones when they were pissed off with him, if he promised John he was going to do something, he still stuck to his word. And I have to give it to him. And the day that he doesn't, it'll be the day that I come out, as far as my experience is a concern. And I will say the same thing about him, as I said, with Beorn. You know, I represented Hector Lombard in Bellator.

And, you know, Hector was, at the time, I guess, their biggest signing besides Eddie Alvarez. And there was a lot of things where he could fight and other promotions and this and that. And he'd tell me, yeah, no problem, get permission. Then I'd get a contract with an extension on it. Things we didn't discuss. Things that, you know, that we did discuss. I'm sorry that he just threw in there. And then, you know, it would be a turn into a fight.

I've watched fighters, you know, requests for tickets in places that were not sold out and be like not going to get it, have them buy it. I mean, it's for family members. Three extra tickets, four extra tickets. You know, I mean, these are just little minor things that I personally experienced, right? Well, then now you look at it, you know, I'm not mad at them for the Eddie Alvarez situation. I think they did the right thing. I think that Eddie Alvers was their guy. They built him up.

You know, it was a start before, but, you know, they also put him on the stage. He had a huge fight with Chandler. He went into the whole thing. I just think that, you know, it's just typical. Hey, we'll let him go if he wants to go. He went and got an offer, hoping that they would just let him go because he wanted to go. He was up front. I want to leave.

They said no. They decided to turn it into a mess. And that's what they're about. So when you have those type of people as the people you're going to work with, to me, I would rather not do business with that guy. It's as simple as that. Now, Sam Kaplan, he's a good dude. Everything he's ever told, one of my guys in my office or whatever it is, you know,

has come to pass. He's been good. Everybody that works there, you know, I don't know everybody. So I'm assuming that they're good people. But, you know, my experience is just the one time that I had a guy there, a big name guy there that was working there, it just wasn't a pleasant situation for me. Promising sponsors, not coming through, doing this, doing that,

and it created a problem between me and my client, and I'm just not up for that. And honestly, even if something happened tomorrow, where one of my guys, you know, left the UFC or was in a situation where they were like Tito or a rampage and they were upset, it would be, you know, my brother would have to go do the deal. I'm just not going to do it.

I just don't want to be involved with it. To me, Bellator is like the CFL. It's like a different league. They have a different structure, different way of doing things, And you have a choice. When you're an NFL agent, if you want to represent CFL guys, you can. And if you don't want to, you don't have to. And that's the position that I'm taking.

It's not that I don't want to ever do business with other promotions. I do business with many. Belator is one I choose not to do business with. If Eddie Alvarez called me today and said, hey, and you know the beef I've had with Authentic and the Black Zillions and all that, right? If he called me and said, hey, I want to pee with you, and I want you to come handle my stuff, I would tell him that I couldn't personally do it. I would just pass.

I'd be like, have my brother or somebody else in my office do it. I don't do it. I won't do it like that. I won't make the call. I won't call them. I won't do with it. I don't really want to be a guy that represents Bellator guys. And a lot of the fighters that I know don't want to work at Bellator. They're just there because it's the option they have. They get into it. They get stuck. And then, you know, they want somebody to save them.

And I choose not to. If you're going to sign with Bellator, understand that it's the same thing with signing with the UFC. You're going to be there for a while. You're going to have a contract and you need to honor the contract. And that's your choice. And if you want to be a Belator fighter, with all means, you know what I'm saying? Go ahead and do what you do. But I just won't be the guy that goes in and works with.

I just don't want to. I don't want to deal with those issues that come with dealing with Belator. And that's my personal opinion. Recently, we've seen Ed Sores, you know, go and work with RFA, Ali Abdel Aziz, another manager, works for World Series of Fighting. You have the gift of the gab. Has anyone approached you about being a promoter, working for a promotion? And if so, would you consider it? And even if not, would you consider it?

You know, listen, I've had a lot of people come up to me and ask me about being a promoter. And it's funny because the ones that do, I look at them, I say, well, they're smart. because I think that the only manager in this industry that has the gift of gab to be a promoter is me. And that's just me patting myself on the back. But I really believe that. I think that there's no one else that can go out and promote a fight the way I probably could. But I've always chosen not to do it. The right opportunity hasn't come by.

It's not something I'm going to get myself involved in. There is a big conflict of interest for me in that because, you know, I managed fighters. And to be a promoter, you know what I mean? It's really two different hats you have to wear. And I think that's the situation that Dana found himself in. one minute he was a manager and the next minute he's a promoter, you know, and I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing yet. But if the right situation came up, I'd probably do it. I would like to test it one day and see how it goes.

I could have done the RFA. I mean, I want you understand, the owner of the RFA is a partner of mine and is a business associate of mine and we do business together on the management side of stuff. You know what I mean? But as far as the actual promotion part, it wasn't something that I wanted to do. It's not something that I wanted to do right then. Now it's something that I, you know, I'd take a look at, but it's not, again, I've been, I've offered. been offered it. I passed on a lot of it. It would just have to be the right fit and the right strategy. A lot of these promoters also, they don't get it. They think it's just, let's go throw

a fight, and we're going to make all this money, and it's not really the way it works. The business is really tough on the promotion side. It's not easy at all. Let's end on this, because we're running out of time. You mentioned the sponsorships, that it's very weak. Why is it weak? What has happened? I remember not too long ago, guys were being sponsored very well, and now I see guys, you saw on Wednesday guys wearing UFC shirt to ask them about that they're like, well, we don't have any sponsors, this is all we can wear.

Where have all the sponsors gone in MMA in your opinion? Well, you know, because I don't know a lot of people are probably expecting well, the UFC taxed them and it ruined it and all that stuff. But I mean, if $50,000 hurt a sponsor to the point that they are out of it, then they shouldn't have been there in the first place. So the reality of it is I just think that the market itself

has begun to dry up. I think that that whole fade and fad of the MMA T-shirt craze is gone. I don't think people want to put those type of stuff on. And I don't think anybody has really understood how to come in and really market to the open market and make some money off of MMA the way they used to be. I think people, you know, got into it because it was cool. There's a lot of issues, Ariel, a lot of issues. A lot of these, man, when you talk to a lot of these sponsors, a lot of times, man, they get pissed off with the managers and the people in it.

Because, you know, they'll come into a business and it's like, all right, how much do I sponsor this? guy with 10,000 bucks. First guy that gets there is going to make all the money, right? He's going to hit him over the head. And then the next guy will call him. Like, well, you got John Jones for how much? Well, I'll give you 10 guys for half that price. And then before you know it, then that comes down.

And then little by little, they start, you know, slashing their budgets. And then little by little, it's even more. They take away. They take away. And then before you know it, they're on everybody, but it's not really a lot of money. And then they spend all this money, right? Whether it's a lot or a little, whatever it is. They put on a lot of guys and they have all their invoices come in.

Then they can't keep up with this guy or that guy. Then this guy didn't put the logo here. You know what I mean? All these little testy little things that happen because it's an unprofessional business and the way stuff gets done. Them guys get irritated. Then managers screw them over.

Then they lie. Then they realize, wait a second. What did I really do? I stuck my logo on a guy. I didn't sell anything. And I did it again the next day. I still didn't sell anything. I did it again the next day and I still didn't sell anything.

And they want me to keep doing this. Then the guy figures out and says, no, I'm not doing this anymore. The $50,000 sponsor, It's tax to me. When you think about it, if you go into NASCAR, you've got to pay millions. You go into the NFL. You can't even get on the uniforms, right?

But to sponsor the league or whatever it is, it's millions. And it's not the way it's done in the UFC. You get more bang for your buck there. So when these guys come in and they've got to pay 50 grand, when you think about 50,000 bucks, I want you to understand this for a second, because this is what bothers me about this whole, oh, if they do the sponsor tax, they take away from the guy. A $5,000 sponsorship is bullshit at the end of the day.

The fact that right now you've got fighters taking things for $500, bucks, $1,500 for a spot, is horrible. It's horrific, okay? But $50,000 is something that an NFL guy would get just for them to put his face on their website. He would never wear the stuff to a game. He would have, you know, a deal with Nike or somebody else. So if Head Rush wanted to go get a football player, right, he would be in his clothing deal

or equipment deal that he would get from Nike or Adidas or Reebok or whoever it is, right? And that's what he would, is his main training stuff and his wing. So the lifestyle stuff is to put that in. So you've got to do photo shoots and all that stuff with him. He would get 50, 60 grand for that. So realistically, if you put $50,000 on a tax to the UFC, that's one fighter's annual contract. Well, a lot of these companies are like, oh, they're charged us 50 grand,

so we're not going to do it. And by the way, the UFC is willing to split those payments up. So it's not like for some companies, well, I don't have the money. They're willing to split it up. So if you can't do it, Ariel, at the end of the day, then you've got no business sponsoring. I don't want to do business with that guy. He doesn't really have money, and then it's going to be a paper chase.

and I don't want to be after that. So I don't know where all the sponsors have technically gone. There's still some very good ones in there, and there's still some in there that are doing very well and that will probably continue to do well, and then don't just do MMA. And that's the reason why I did the deal I did with Fosco and Ellie at VFD Sports because we're out there and we're pitching different companies,

and you're going to see that we're bringing, we have a couple right now that we're going to announce in a couple weeks that we're going to bring to the table. And it's going to start bringing back sponsors to MMA because I've made it to where I'm going to be able to concentrate on what I do, and I've got a whole team that is going to go out and do that one aspect, which MMA really definitely needs it. And, you know, if a fighter's with us, they're going to benefit from it greatly and the most

from it. It's the only thing that we can do. I just think a lot of managers sit around. They're watching the fights. Oh, if they got this guy, let me call them, and they're just trying to, and then so what happens is a lot of, we'll give it to you for a thousand bucks, we'll do a five, and they'll take it. And so fighters are not making money, and that's the problem.

And, and, listen, on that note, people are thinking when Nike comes in, Adidas, Rebock, whoever comes in, if they do a legal, deal with the UFC, where they're the sponsors of the UFC, you can kiss all the other sponsors as far as clothing sponsors to go away. They'll be gone. They'll no longer be allowed in the UFC. So instead of seeing guys walking around with UFC shirts and stuff like that, they'll probably be walking around with whatever sponsor that the league has. You get it just like the NFL, just like basketball, just like baseball. So all these people like, oh, you know, one day we'll get this and one day will get that. You will, but there's only going to be a handful of guys that'll get paid.

Everybody else will get an equipment deal where they'll get their clothing and that'll be that. And imagine that then will be fighters will lose out on that guaranteed money that they got just for wearing a t-shirt that now they won't even have anymore. And that's how it goes. That's how it is in the NFL, basketball, baseball. But as this sport continues to grow and get to that point, that's basically what will happen. Very interesting times. And Dana White has talked about potential deals with Nike Reeboks. So it'll be interesting to see how that all shakes out.

Thank you so much, Malki. Great stuff as always. He's very opinionated. He's very active on social media. Twitter.com slash Malki Kawa. If you want to ask him anything about the sports, the business side of things. Always great to get your knowledge,

even though it seemed like you were clearly preoccupied with something else on your phone because you kept looking off to the side. I'll forget that. It's Labor Day in Miami. It's thunderstorming outside, and I'm getting pictures of people at the beach. Oh.

And it's pretty funny, right? It's a little bit more interesting than talking to everything on a Monday. Wow. All right. Well. Who's in my life, guy? Yeah, and you have a...

You've got a row of dudes right there with the TVAs with their shirts off. I want you to understand that's the MMA culture, right? So that's what you do. You sit there and you stare at that and look at that.

I mean, I choose not to do that until the actual fight day. You know what I mean? The rest of my time I'm busy working, trying to create opportunities for these guys. Making party buses. I saw on your Instagram you got a party bus for this weekend.

Look at you. I read those hashtags by the way. Very strange. Listen, Syracuse sucks. I can't wait until we go against Syracuse or any New York school if there is in New York.

But the University of Miami is making a comeback. There was a Muhammad Adi of college football team back in the 80s and 90s. It's all about the year. Maybe don't ever forget that. This Saturday, the Hurricanes versus Florida, I will be there in the party bus and it will be live.

Promise you that. One day I hope to be invited to the party bus. Thank you, Maliki. You're invited. Oh, wow. Listen, it would be an honor, bro. The one thing you and I do have in common, the only thing you and I have in common is that we like sneakers.

And I have a pretty means team collection. and so do you. Other than that, there really is very little. All right, thanks so much for stopping by. Pleasure as always. Thank you, sir, for having me. Malki Kawa, first round management has a new stable fighters. Congratulations to him.

A tough night for him on Saturday, but we appreciate him stopping by. Okay, a little time to waste here, as Malki took up a lot of our time there. As I mentioned, Wednesday is another UFC, UFC Fight Night 28, and Mama knows is on the comeback trail. Now, how did she do on Saturday and Wednesday of last week? Well, on Saturday, she went 3 and 2, and on Wednesday, 3 and 3.

So to say that she's cooled off a little bit, I think it would be fair. I think it would be fair. You know, give her this. She has yet to go under 500. She, you know, she went 3 and 2 on Saturday, 3 and 3 on Wednesday, yet to go under 500. 500. And I think this fight card on Wednesday signals the end of a crazy stretch for the UFC.

Let's see how things shake out after Wednesday. Now, New York, Rick, I know you try not to monitor these things, but we had a conversation about it earlier. Do you know what her record is right now? Her record is 17 to 9. It's not bad. Of course, you know, like I said, first one was undefeated,

then one loss, so she's cooled off a little bit, right? Would you say that? Sure. You don't have to be. You don't have to be so rude about it. By the way, have you gained some weight that I didn't mean to bring this up, but it seems like you got a little, no? Gained some weight. A week after, whoa.

There's nothing here. Is this the first time you wear a V-neck? No, maybe on the show. Well, that's what I meant. Yeah, probably on the show. God, I'm so fucking shiny right now. You just swore. Yeah.

That's not cool. Shiny. Look at me. It's so hot back here. It is hot. Yeah. The building on a holiday, they don't put the air conditioning, right? Yep.

Unfortunately for us. But we're still working. Of course. No one else is here, a bunch of slackers. So let's just recap Wednesday. She picked Tavares over McDaniel. She did not pick Mitsugaki over Perez. She did not pick McGee over Whitaker.

At that point, I was getting frantic text messages because she, at that point, was what one and two, picked Gasolum over Menon-Sont, did not pick Soroni. Well, she picked Soroni to be Dosangos, and then, and by the way, it is Dos Santos, so I was right last week. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, rewind. I'm just kidding. There we go. And then she picked, of course, Carl's Condit, so three and three.

And then on Saturday, a bit of a better night, although it did start off a little bit dicey for her. She, well, actually, no, she picked Porier to be Coke, did not pick. pick Rothwell-Vri-Vrera, picked Mendez over Guida, did not pick Barnett over Mir, and then picked Pettus over Henderson. So that's 3-2. He says 17-9. I have her picks right here. Anything you want to say about, oh, we got some breaking news here over the wire, Mr. New York, Rick.

You ready for it? Let's go. What the heck? Well, this is very weird. This is the strangest thing I've ever. received. I just received an email from the company training mask. You familiar with training mask? Yeah, they're the ones who make the ones for fighters who are training. Okay, so the subject of this email is Sean Shirk announces retirement from UFC. Now, this is interesting for two reasons.

Retirement from UFC or retirement from MMA? Definitely interesting, for sure. But anyway, I click on the email, and this is what it says. You're invited to the 15th annual Women's Business Association Gala. Please join us for an evening of cocktails, dinner, and dancing to celebrate another successful year of the Women's Business Association.

What the heck? Well, Sean Shirk's retirement sounds like a lot of fun. Well, hopefully we'll get another email about that. I'll update you. Anything you want to say about Wednesday or Saturday? How did you do? Do you make any side bets?

Anything at all? You kind of weighed in on something. of them. What were you thinking? Yeah, I did pretty well. I mean, I picked most of the guys correctly. I had conned it. I did say I was leaning toward Dos Anjos. Cort McGee was the one I was saying was definitely the underdog to take most consideration of because, I mean, Whitaker just didn't have the experience, I thought, in that one. So that one I got right.

It seems like you're focusing on all the ones you got right. Well, because I got a lot right. You did? That's just how it goes. How did you do? In terms of just my own bets. The only ones I put down were McGee and there was somebody on the undercard, but I'm forgetting who it was.

On Wednesday? What about Saturday? Yeah. On Saturday, I put down some on Pettis because I was drumming that bandwagon. I figured unofficially you would, you know, just want to compete against my mom so you'd make your own picks and then see, you know, that would be the smart thing to do because then you could have come back here and said, oh, she did three and two. I did five and no, and look at this. I dated it.

Well, I could do that, but I don't want to disrespect your mother. This is her time. Well, she just texted me, thanks for rubbing it in. She clearly feels like you're passive, aggressively rubbing it in. This is her time to shine. I'm not going to step all over that. Sure. But on Saturday, I was definitely saying Porier was a good underdog to look at. He won. Of course. Barnett. I saw that fight much more lopside. Yeah, I saw that fight further away from the line than it was. It was a pretty close line. Barnett was only, he was less than a two-to-one favorite.

And I thought that he was going to be absolutely in control of Mir and he showed that he was. How much you love watching Porriet fight just because he looks like you so much? And do you think he looks like you? A lot of people were tweeting me. How are you tweeting right now when you're in the cage? I like watching Porriet fight because when you do a Google search, for Dustin Porreier and boring, you get no results. Wow. Look at that. Who said that one?

Who did you steal that from? Who did I? Wait a minute. Let's talk about that later. Okay. We'll talk about stealing later. Really? Yeah, we will. Okay.

But yeah, who doesn't like watching Porier fight? Even when he loses, it's an incredible fight. What was it, Korean zombie? Cubs Swanson. This one with Coke. Yeah, there's no such thing as a boring Dustin Porreier fight. Okay, so Wednesday we have another UFC. There are six main card fights, and these are my mother's picks.

Are you ready for them? Let's hear. Okay, well, let's start with the... Let's start with the main event. She picked Glover-Teshirea to beat Ryan Bader. How do you feel about that? I like that. I think that's mortal luck.

Actually, yeah, I like it, though. She picked Jacques-Raisusa over Okami. I don't even have to ask you about that. She picked Joseph Benavides over Jucierf Formiga. Yep. She picked Francisco Trinaldo over Peter Halman. Yep. Break it down for me.

Yep. Yep. She picked Sapo Natal, the great Saponatal of the Brooklyn branch of the Hentel of the Hentel Gracie Academy over Tor Trong. Yep. Yeah. And finally she picked a guy I'm excited about a newcomer to the flyweight division, Ali Bagotinov over Marcos Venisius.

Yep. Yep. So she's gone chalk. Is it? These are all favorites. Uh-oh. Some bigger than others. But as I said before, that's worked out for her in the past.

The biggest favorite is Joey B. Minus 550. Wow. Really? For Miga at plus 4. 25. I don't necessarily even think that's surprising just because of how good Joey B really is. And the only fight he's lost recently is the one where he looked a little out of sorts against Mighty Mouse, but I think he's almost unstoppable at that weight class. And while for Amiga is really

good, I see this being relatively easy for Joey B. So I like her pick, but I don't like betting on it at those odds. Will you bet on any of these? Uh, yeah, I'm probably going to have some kind of bet on jaccherey, whether it's inside the distance. He's a minus 270 favorite and Okami is plus 230. It's an interesting one. You think he submits him? I bet can you get like some kind of prop bet on if he'll submit him? I think that'll be interesting.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. In fact, the odds might be out for that. Really? Jokeree by submission is plus 250. So you can get a little bit of money. That's fascinating. Now, will you do it? made a lot of money betting on Okami because he tends to be the underdog.

He comes into almost every fight being the underdog, but this is one that I'm going to have to shy away from Akami. Let me see inside the distance because I also think he could knock Okami out. Could you do via sub and via inside the distance? Or is that the same thing? It's the same. Inside the distance is plus 175, meaning it pays a little less, but you get the sub or the knockout. But could you make a parlay? where it's Jacqueray via submission and Jacqueray.

You can't parlay prop bets on the same fight. That's annoying. So, yeah, definitely Jacqueray in that one. If anybody hasn't seen the show before, I think Jokkeray could take out anybody in the division, including the champs. I think that he might be the best guy in the division. Wait, wait.

Are there two champions right now? Are you considering the answer to the championship? I guess I am. Wow, wow. Talk about disrespect. That was a mental fire right day. Wow. Was he sharing the title?

Can't get any respect, Wydenman. Yeah, that's, that was, that was terrible right there. That was, and you're a Wydenman guy. I think that he could take, I think that he could take out Silva or Wydenman. I'm that high on Jacaray. And Glover got this? Glover's got it. Minus 440 seems a little high.

Bader's always dangerous, and at plus 350, you might want to look at it if, you know, there's a, let me see the line on. K.O. You can get Bader by K.O. at plus 650. Bater, I'm sorry, not Bader, rather. Glover has shown that he can get his chin touched a little bit, so

Bader has the power to put him out. If you think it's worth taking a risk, might maybe lay a small bet on that, but Glover has the all-around game to definitely control Bader. Trinaldo, that guy was super impressive

in his last fight against Mike Rio. Yeah, Peter Harmon is a newcomer. He hasn't lost since, like... I don't know enough about him. I looked into him a little bit. I don't really know enough about him, but I know that Trinaldo's grappling is incredible. And his transitions, and when he slapped on that arm triangle, the guy is really impressive. So I can't really evaluate the line not knowing enough about his opponent, but I really like Trinaldo as a fighter overall. Trong and Sapo minus 260 for the favorite Sapo. I like him in this fight.

I haven't been that impressed by Thor. He's been okay. But I think Sapo's overall game is really good. He's very well-rounded. The only fight he's lost in his last five or six, I believe, is the one to Andrew Craig, where he kind of started taunting and took his foot off the pedal. Yeah, that was bad. Otherwise, he would have won five or six in a row, something like that.

And I think he can continue his impressive streak here. And then there's Ali Bagotinov who's a Samba champion coming from Russia. He doesn't have any UFC fights, right? No, no, this is his debut. Typically, guys with Sambo experience are usually pretty good. Yes. So I would lean toward him, especially how accomplished he is as a grappler, but I don't know enough about him to make a determination in terms of betting.

Well, at least you're honest. sure I'm not going to lie to the people and make them spend their harder in money but yeah typically Samba guys are really good making that transition to MMA it's a functional kind of grappling well to recap Ali Bagatinoffi Natal Francisco Trinaldo Joseph Benavides Jacques Jekore Seza and Glover Tashara those are the mama nose picks and this is a big one you know it's Russia Shana night I'll be there watching with her I will not be in Brazil I'll be in Montreal And I think there's a lot of pressure.

Would you say 17 and 9? That's correct. Yeah. You know, we may have to make some hard decisions after this. Who knows? Wow. You know, listen. And the following week, no, in two weeks.

You know, by the way, there's Bellator on Saturday for you. There's World Series of Fighting. You know, if you want to get back into this, let me know. To recap, on Wednesday, the coverage, it starts, excuse me, at 4 o'clock. Eastern Time with the pre-fight show on Fox Sports 1, then preliminary card, preliminary card a prelims, I'll call them, at 5 p.m. Eastern Time, that's on Fox Sports 1. And then the main card at 7 p.m. Eastern Time, also on Fox Sports 1, headlining act, Bader, Tashara, and then at 10 o'clock, it is the debut of the Ultimate

Ultimate Fighter Season 18, Misha Tate versus Rhonda Rousey, two-hour special. The 32 fighters will compete 16, entering the house. Eight men, eight women, 135 pounds. Check it out Wednesday on Fox Sports. Uno, one. All right, let's get some questions and then get the heck out of here. We got questions. We do have questions.

Let's start with the website ones. Let me get those loaded out. How hot is it in that front room over there? It's a little hot. Oh, breaking news number two. UFC veteran Sean the Muscle Shark, Shirk, is retiring from the UFC. at age 40 and after an extraordinary 14-year career, Sean Shirk is retiring from the UFC with a 38, 4-1 record,

but will always be remembered as a UFC lightweight champion. Sean Shirk, again, has wrote to the UFC as a wrestler at the age of seven. Any quotes from Sean? No, no quotes. Shirk's career accomplishments include UFC Lightweight Champion, three Friday the Night Awards, undefeated in Pride, FC, and Chirk was one of the only. only two UFC Lightweight Champions to compete in privacy.

Wow. After retirement, Shirk plans to maintain his involvement at training masks while coaching MMA and teaching seminars. Shirk is also continuing a successful career in real estate investment. Congratulations, Sean Shirk. I think any quick thoughts on Sean Shirk? I think at the end of the day, he will be remembered as a champion, but also somewhat controversial, right? He was, you know, he had the big issue in California stripped of the title. B.J. Penn comes in, fights Joe Stevenson, and then he fights Shirk at,

UFC 84. Remember that fight when Joe fought BJ in England? They didn't really acknowledge it. It was kind of a weird situation. He fought it and got the suspension reduced, but still I think that's something that people always remember him for, right? I agree

with you, and I feel like he had an opportunity to really, like, put that behind him. But he just couldn't stay healthy and couldn't compete. He couldn't get that fight to just, you know, keep moving forward. And that's unfortunate because I thought he was a really good fighter.

Great wrestler. Pretty decent hands, even though his notoriously short arms. But yeah, controversial figure, for sure. And I wish him the best. Well, that's nice. It's good to know that you wish him the best. All right, let's go to the questions. First question.

Tough 18, Rhonda versus Misha. Are you looking forward to the new Tough series? Very much so. Wow. What a nice transition for everything I was saying. you weren't listening, although this was at 8.11 a.m. I'm looking forward to it. Like I said, I have been down on tough. One of the reasons why I don't watch Fightmaster is because I get enough out of it in the tough world, but it just felt like it was getting stale. Same old, same old. And yes, at the end of the day, this is the same format, but the introduction of the women, again, a lot of

them we know already really makes it interesting for me. And the dynamic between Ronda and Misha, they hate each other so much. You'll see from the promos from the first episode, there's a lot of tension. It's very interesting. It's compelling. Now, get back at me, you know, episode four, five, and then we'll see, you know, how I feel. But right now I'm very excited about it. And I think this, this is the perfect dynamic women, men in the house, coaches, all that stuff to give this thing, a shot in the arm because it very much needed that. It looks great. It was shot beautifully. It looks fantastic. And I just, this is the reason why I've always wanted to see the comeback season again. I want people in the house that I care about that I know. And that's happening here with the

women. So I'm a lot more interested in it. Our next question about Josh Barnett. What was it like interviewing Josh after his fight with Mir? He genuinely seemed happy to see you and talk to you. I know you're a reporter and try not to sound biased in the fight business, but it was cool seeing him have success again in the octagon and opening up to the media for some fun, quotable outbursts. You know, it's a very good question. I actually saw Josh at the press conference on Thursday, and it gave me a hug, and it was very nice. And Josh is one of these guys who is very focused and intense, and you see from his quotes and all that stuff in his interviews. But he seemed genuinely happy to be there. And that's why I asked him that question about hard time. in the post-fight interview because I thought maybe the hard times were over.

Whatever happens next, anything can happen. But he got back to the UFC. He got a win. He looked very impressive, very aggressive, very good on his feet, finishing a guy like Frank Mear. I mean, you can make a case for him looking, considering the opponent, that was probably the best he looked since pride. You know, he had some wins before that, but against like a top 10 guy.

And that's why I asked the question, because he seemed to be in a really good place. It was very happy. He was grinding. We had a little moment. We were dancing. He didn't give me the post-fight promo that he promised or hinted at, but it was fun nonetheless. It was very good to see him.

And I want to see him fight for Doom. I think that's a fight that makes a lot of sense. And I think they could do it pretty soon, maybe November, and then the winner fights for the belt. It's good to have Josh Barnett back. Definitely agree. One of the best characters. All right, next question.

What are your thoughts on Ben's third, this is Ben Rothwell, by the way, Ben's third round finish, considering his cardio issues that have plagued him in his, excuse me, him his entire career. Do you think TRT has made Ben

into a drastically better fighter, similar to Vitor? I don't know if I can comment on the TRT stuff. You know, if you saw a post-fight interview for MMA fighting, he talked about changing his camp,

changing his diet, changing the way he trains, and that's why his, his cardio, which is notoriously weak, or has been notoriously weak, was very good in this fight. I mean, he got a third round finish against a guy like Brandon Vera, who, by the way, looked very big. I still don't think Brandon Vera at heavyweight is the right call. I thought he was better at 205.

But I don't know if it's the TRT. You know, he hasn't really talked about that all that much, and I would feel uncomfortable weighing in on that and how it has a affected him, but that was a must win. I think if Ben would have lost, he may have been gone, and I'm curious to see what they will do with Brandon Vera because that was a very important win for both of those guys, and Rothwell got it. Good for him. He's always had, you know, he's always had a lot of potential, but maybe the cardio has been an issue and hasn't really translated into the, you know, top-level UFC fighter that we thought he was going to be when he was so dominant in the IFL, had a little run and affliction and all that stuff, but that was an important win.

our next question is from twitter what's next for pettus can he be the next multi-weight champion if you were to go down and fight aldo see i don't i personally i don't i'll say this i want him to fight aldo next because there's there's heat there it's obviously a very intriguing fight it's exciting fight i think they're the two most exciting fighters in m m mb but why not just do it for the 150 pound belt and by that i mean just the king of of the 150 pounders? Fake belt. Why does it have to be for one of their belts? I don't want to see Aldo relinquish the title at 145. I don't want to see Pettus do it. And I think if you do it at a catchweight, it doesn't hurt them in their respective weight classes when they go back. So why don't

just do it out of a catchway? 150, we meet in the middle, may the best man win. And I think that's fine. I'm not opposed to that. I like that. Why does it have to be for a belt? Because if one guy wins the title, then you're keeping the other. If Aldo goes up and relinquishes the title beforehand, then maybe. But if we're doing it belt for belt, then one of the titles is going to be hung up for a while. And it's all fair to those guys. Now, speaking of fair and a fair world, I think that Aldo should fight Lamas and Pettus should fight Grant. But I could see, this is a tough one to pass up right now. They booked it once. They teased it. They hyped it. There's a great picture of them on the beach in Rio. It's tough. And we may find out, remember Cona McGregor, we didn't think he was

seriously injured, now he's out for 10 months. So the knee is going to dictate a lot. By the time some of you listen to this, we may know more about the knee. If it's not serious, you may have to get it out of the way. And remember, Aldo is also injured, but it sounds like he can get better pretty soon. But if it is serious, then, you know, T.J. and Lamas, all those guys, it's tough to make them wait so long. Next question. Did Bendo look past Pettis with his talk of breaking Silva's record Superfights with GSP and Aldo?

I mean, he'd be the best one to answer that question, but I don't think so. He's been talking about that stuff for a while. And he's been talking about GSP. He's been talking about breaking Anderson's record. Something just seemed off from the beard, which I love the beer, but it just seemed off. The beard, to the hair

being braided, to the black belt. It was just, I watched that submission a bunch of times last night. and, you know, sometimes it's one of these guys who has his number. Mike Brown, your eye of favor, who knows what was going on going into that fight. It started off all right. You know, they're up against the cage, those calf kicks that Joe Rogan was raving about. It started off okay, but then those kicks to the body, you could tell, those really hurt him.

You could see on his face that those really hurt him. And then Pettis goes for the Capoeira. kick gets taken down and off his back with the beautiful arm bar where he had, I think it was, was it, yeah, he submitted him, you know, via his right arm, but he had his left arm trapped, or vice versa, but he had one of his arms trapped, which made it so tough to tap A, B, get out of, and it was just, it was very impressive. So he would be the best one to answer that, but I don't think him talking about that stuff meant that he was looking past. Pettis was talking about some of that stuff as well.

And he didn't look past him. Our next question is, what's next for Benson? Dos Anjos, Maynard, Healy, and Nirmagammeida? Is that? I always messed up. He could have just said, Habib. He gave you the out. Yeah, but people might not know who Habib is.

They don't? Who else is named Habib? All right. Habib. It's a good question. Dosanos is, or Dosangos. I still find a weird that we've been calling him Dosanos. all this time and all of a sudden he fights in the co-mate event and his name has been changed.

Maybe no one told us, but it's just very jarring. You know, I can't just adapt like that. It's like Jose Aldo and Jose Aldo, although he told us about the new pronunciation earlier on after the Mike Brown fight. Back to the question, you know, there's one name there that I wasn't thinking about. Gray Maynard has nothing going on now. Here's the thing. Gray Maynard hasn't fought since May and he's looking for a fight, so I think the timing isn't going to work out there.

But that fight makes a lot of sense. That fight makes a ton of sense. And, you know, we don't know about Benson's arm how serious it is, but I love that fight. I don't think it's going to happen next, though, just because of the timing. I don't think Dosangios is going to get, or Dosangos, excuse me,

is going to get Benson because he's on a winning streak. He's on five in a row. Although five in a row and then a loss to the champion, it is a little different. So maybe. maybe because I don't view Dosangos as a guy who's really knocking on the door he's not very colorful he's missing kind of that big knockout I don't see it happening don't Seroni no he beat him twice that's not going to happen the loser maybe of

a healy versus Habib maybe that will happen I could see that that'd be very interesting but I think it's too early that's the answer it's too early just lost injured arm let's see what happens our next question. Where do you rank Benson Henderson's UFC lightweight title reign compared to BJ Penn's and Frankie Eggers? It's a very good question, kind of what I asked Meltzer about. I mean, he deserves props. You know, tied BJ's record for most successful title defenses at 155, beat Frankie Edgar, who beat BJ Penn. It's up there. You know, you could say he was missing that finish. Edgar had it against Maynard at 136. But he's He was dominant against Nate Diaz. I think what's going to hurt him is some of those controversial decisions. Melendez, the second Edgar fight.

If I have to rank it, I'd probably go BJ, Frankie, Benson. And I know Benson beat Frankie, but I think they were more dominant. And Frankie beating BJ in his prime means a lot to me. I agree with that order for sure. just because of the quality of finish and the quality of dominance. BJ Penn was the most dominant during his title run. He was going out and finishing guys and just wiping the floor with them. Frankie was still eking out decisions, albeit a lot of times he was in control of the entire fight.

For example, in the second BJ Penn fight. He completely controlled BJ. but then even underneath that is Benson where he's most of the time a lot of people thought he lost some of those fights. So I think, you know, the quality of how good you look doing it is what comes into play here. And BJ definitely was the most dominant during his run. And Benson was probably the least. That said, the numbers don't lie. And his run was as impressive statistically as, as, as, as.

anybody's. Absolutely. And that's another one. Walks to the cage wearing the black belt, gets submitted, so close to beating BJ Penn's record, which is an impressive one in a very loaded division, doesn't get it. You could see in his eyes. Everyone remembers in Glendale. He was crying at the press conference. You could see in his eyes in Milwaukee on Saturday at the press for that he had been crying, and it means a lot. And I always shy away from this stuff. I hate saying it, but I do feel like he's going to come back very strong. He's one of those guys who's so intense, so competitive. I'm very much looking forward to seeing him come back. And if Pettus is still the champion after three, four fights, I'd be down to see it again.

I'm not so down, but I definitely think. Pettus beat him twice. There's really nothing I need to see anymore. That's true. He beat him years ago on points, and now he finished him. There's nothing really that I feel like I didn't see between the. those two. All right. Great enough. Our next question.

I still feel robbed from the early stoppage of Mirr Barnett. Would you like to see a rematch? No. I get what you're saying, but he was very dominant. And I kind of want to see Barnett move on.

I don't think you could sell a fight based off of a... It wasn't the most controversial. It was early, but I don't think it was crazy early. I mean, he had been dropped, and he looked a little out of it. And yes, he drops that way, as Herb Dean said, but I don't think it warrants a rematch.

Excuse me. Go ahead. You want to say that? I was just going to say, on this point, a lot of people are saying, you know, he wasn't in a bad point. Not that people were saying he wasn't in a bad way. Everybody acknowledges that he was not in a favorable position. But a lot of people are saying, you know, you got to give him that chance. So you've got to give him that opportunity.

And to a certain extent, I agree. But to a certain extent, I don't agree. Namely that Frank Muir, specifically, that this fighter that we're talking about has been in this position before. And it didn't end well. And it never has ended well from that position. We know how he reacts in that position. And a lot of people complained that the Karwin fight went on way too long. and he wasn't completely out in that one until the very end

but it's just unnecessary punishment there's no reason to see if he can escape from that because he was not able to defend himself at that exact point that the fight was stopped Barnett could have landed a few more shots and completely put him out but we don't really need to see that and I feel like Barnett wanted to but that's not something I'm interested in seeing I don't want to see a guy you know get seriously injured and Dana White

was comparing it to Frankie Edgar because he had an objection with the stoppage and he was saying you know we've seen Frankie on his last legs and then come back and fight well Frankie Edgar has that capability we've seen that in the past and you have to give a little more rope to a guy who has shown that ability to come back in the past and mere I don't think had that and didn't have it on Saturday so I had no problem with the stoppage and I think that the only possible outcome that would have been unnecessary punishment. Absolutely. So I have no problem with it. Well said, I want to see Barnett move along.

I want to see him fight for Doom or another top guy. And I certainly don't think Frank Mears should be cut. I think that's crazy. Still draw, so what? Lost to Dos Santos, lost to Cormier, lost to Barnett. You could do a lot worse. He deserves to be there. He's done enough.

But I want to see Barnett move along. Our next question, when will team Alpha Male ever lose a non-title fight again? even Castillo can now beat guys regularly. I mean, I can't predict that. I just know the next one is Benavides. He's fighting for Miga. Interesting fight coming up in October. T.J. Dillashaw against Hafele-Sonsal.

That's a huge fight at 135. Finally, T.J. Dillashaw getting a big fight on a big stage. It's in Brazil. Not saying he's going to lose that one. I think he's actually going to win. But they're on a roll. Now, I want to see them in a title fight. Let's see.

That's always been their Achilles heel. How do they respond in those big moments? I mean, right now it's September 1st. Three months left in the year. Is there any doubt that, you know, Bangal Ludwig is the coach of the year? There's no doubt, right? The coach of the year. There's no other contender.

I mean, even if they lose a couple here or there, he still probably deserves it. I see this guy backstage. He has such positive energy. He's buzzing before the fights. You think he's actually going to go out there and fight. He's a great coach. He's done wonders for them. And sometimes coaches get too much credit.

sometimes we harp on coaches and we talk about them too much. In this case, I think he deserves all the credit. He's really brought them together and has really closed up some of those holes. I can't predict when they're going to lose another non-title fight, and I don't think it's going to happen soon with the Benavitas fight and the Dilichoff fight. Our next question, Rothwell called out Brown, who isn't interested. Do you agree that Rothwell versus Barnett would be a great matchup? Nah, I think Barnett is a little past Ben Rothwell.

Marathwell Brown is okay. We were supposed to see that Fox 4 last year. I don't think they're going to do that fight either. And to your question, I don't think it could happen, but I think Barnett deserves a bigger opponent. Definitely agree there. Next question. Who's the biggest winner and loser after Saturday?

Biggest winner has to be Anthony Pettus. Looks so good, got the title and his home title. I mean, how can you beat that? And by the way, what a moment. One of the best moments of the year, probably the best. I mean, that Instagram picture that he posted, putting the title on his father's grave, going out, not at the club, not partying, stopped at the grave, put the title there. His fathered who was murdered when he was a youngster, early 2000s in Milwaukee.

The fact that he got to do that at home, give a shout out to the upper deck. If you haven't seen that picture on his Instagram, it will actually make you quite emotional. At least it did for me. It was a very nice, very nice picture. Biggest loser, I mean, I could, honestly, I could say Benson, but that seems too easy. I think it's got to be Vera, no? I think it's got to be Clay Guida. Really?

Yeah. Why is that? I mean, no one was really predicting him to beat Mendez. but I just think that he's just fallen off, you know, and, you know, he was such a fan favorite, and I don't think he has that same aura. Even when he lost, it was exciting. He had his moments. I don't think being at 145 helps him.

I just think Vera really needed a win there. And because he's been bouncing around divisions. People have been souring on him. You know, we've heard that he's in the best shape of his life every time. And I just think that he really needed to make a statement again. a guy who hasn't, you know, been an elite contender. Rathwell is not the biggest name, so it was kind of a fight that was here. You can prove that you're worthy of your spot, and I don't think he passed.

That's fair. I think it was strange to go up. He just doesn't look like a heavyweight. It just seemed like, to me, on the surface, not a smart move. But, yeah, I guess there are a lot of winners, a lot of losers, but those are the ones that come to mind. Yep. and by the way Clay Guida saw me

after the press conference on Thursday we had a little thing back and forth apologize, said he misunderstood the question I apologize for messing up a little bit there's no beef there so sorry to disappoint everyone next question Raphael Dos Anjos is on a four-fight

win streak after outstriking There you go After outstriking Donald Serroney Who do you see next for him? Maynard Miller Well I don't see him getting Maynard he's coming off loss.

So is Miller, by the way. How about the winner of Pat Healy and Nirmagamadov? Because they're fighting. You've got to think about the timing, too. I just don't see them giving Maynard a guy who's won five in a row. He's done enough, so is Miller. But I think with Healy and Nirmagamatov fighting just later on this month in Toronto, timing works out perfectly.

Plus that's an awesome fight. It was a great fight. Our next question, what is your take on the Atila Vey-Vay-Belotor situation? Oh, yeah. If you missed it, Attila Vey did an interview in Slovakian-slash-Polish, where he claims to not be injured, and he says that Bellator asked him to step aside so they can book King Moe v. Emmanuel Noon 2 for their paper of November 2nd. Now, Bellator has come out, and there's an article on our site written by Luke Thomas, where they have a statement, and they have a medical report saying that he is in fact injured.

This medical report is from April. He maintains that he is not injured. I know Luke reached out to Belator and wanted to know why it was from April and what's the latest, but I don't think that he has heard from them yet. I mean, a lot of people suspected this. I hate to say it and this stuff happens. A lot of people say, well, how is this any different than T.J. Grant? And how is this any different than Katzengano?

How about this? Katzengano and T.J. Grant both claim that they're injured. This guy's saying he's not injured. So that's the difference. Who's going to blame Belator for making the King Moe versus Noon 2 fight? No one, because it's a bigger fight. It's the most interesting fight they could do at 205. But it does suck that one guy, the guy, the champion is saying that I was asked to step aside and they're claiming that I'm injured. Ugly situation. Some suspected it. Didn't really want to bring it up. He brings it up. Now we can't sit here and call anyone a liar. All I'm going to say is Belator made the right move. They put on the right fight. Their silly tournament made them do this for an interim title because

King Mo won the tournament and all that nonsense. So, you know, what is this fight all about? But I think they should have just made this kind of a number one contender fight and moved on. Newton gets a rematch against Vey or King Moe, you know, beats him and and gets to fight Atelvet, and then no one would have criticized them. But because they made it for a title and made it for an interim title, they opened themselves up to this. Our next question, has the culinary union contacted you in regards to making hardworking employees such as Buzzkill work on Labor Day?

A few things that's interesting about this comment here. Why only Buzzkill? Why are they so concerned about Buzzkill? Do they think that he is the least hardworking of the bunch as he walks by here and has no idea that we're talking about him. What do you make of this? Why are they concerned about you? Why aren't they concerned about me?

It's a very good question. I do suspect that they will contact me pretty soon. I mean, there he is, walking by. There's no idea we're talking about him. Maybe he knows now. He knows. He's very upset. He was so mad.

He was trying to convince me not. Buzzkill, you're in there now. Anything you want to say about this? If you missed it, has the Culinary Union contact me in regards to making hardworking employees such as you, Buzzkill, work on Labor Day. Your thoughts? No comment. That's all. We see you in the background there.

He has no comment. Listen, I speak for him. I represent him. My client has no comment. People want to hear from you. Oh, he said something. What do you say? Tell him. I don't have the headphones on.

Tell him, we want to hear a comment. What's being said, but I see the question here. Yep. Are you, do you feel like this is a fair question? Talking about working on Labor Day. New York, we try to please the people here, and that's number one priority. Everything else is secondary. Wow.

So it sounds like he is happy to be working on Labor Day. Ask him if he's happy. He loves it. He loves it. Are you, he can't hear you in New York Creek? To be working on Labor Day. Sure. Very definitive answer.

Newark, you didn't get the whole, he can't hear us thing, right? You kept moving off to the side, but he can't hear me talking to him. The speakers are down in here because we don't want the feedback. Well, there you have it. Buzzkill is happy. He heard from the man himself. But will we hear from the culinary union that remains to be seen? Now let's bring up.

Wow. This is a question? No, this is not a question. This is a tweet. I was very good from somebody named New York Rick. Yes. This is a tweet. From Saturday night, see the timestamp, 12.15 a.m.

That's East Coast time. It says, Petis hit him with the shot heard around the world last. time and the shot heard by nobody this time. Does that bring anything to mind when you hear those words? Yes. I wanted to bring this up. I was watching, I wasn't at the scrum, but I was watching the post-fight scrum and a Russian reporter said that she saw this very interesting tweet. Dana White had no idea what she was saying, but I had a feeling that she stole it from you. Is that what you mean? That's also true. But I was watching, I was watching the post-fight show. Now you're lying. Now you're lying. Now you're lying to make yourself look better.

If you want to say something, say you know the story, but don't say you were watching when you were. So I was watching the Post Fight show on Fox Sports 2. This is a lie. And I saw you on the panel, and I thought, oh, great, there's my buddy Ariel. He's on the panel. Finally. He's going to get a chance to speak his piece. Ratings.

And you definitely, I say you encapsulated the night rather well. Oh, thanks. You did well. Thank you. But then at the very end of your time speaking, you said something to the effect. effect of, actually, I can't even, you butchered it so poorly so badly that I don't even know what you said anymore. But you said something very, very close to what I said. And a lot of people tweeted me that they think that Ariel Halwani is stealing. No. Stealing my lines. That's what they

say. It's not true. You didn't watch it. You have no idea. Our buddy Anthony is saying no one cares that New York Rick has to work on Labor Day. That's what I have to say about this accusation. You're accusing me on my own show on the air. I'm not accusing. I'm saying the people came to me. Which we all know, we all know, you're a Photoshop master. How do I know you didn't change the time? It's possible. I am very good.

I'm not very good. That's a pretty easy fix. Yeah, let's... Look at that, 39 retweets. 19 favorites. 19 people thought that this was such a good tweet that they wanted to keep this on their timeline forever. I think it should be 20. I think Ariel Hawani also liked it.

There was a good one. It was a good one. Yeah, that's it. We're done. We're done? wrapped. Happy Labor Day, everybody. Yes. And happy back to school. As a wise man, Billy Madison once said, back to school, back to school to prove to Dad that I'm not a fool. I got my shoes tied tight, my lunch all packed,

I hope I don't get in a fight. Remember that? Billy Madison. Never heard that. Oh, really? Well, yeah, happy Labor Day, everyone. Thanks for stopping by. You can hit my music, Alfred. Bang. A nice Labor Day. Let me tell you, there's no place I'd rather spend Labor Day after being in Indianapolis, Milwaukee, five flights total, than right here with you guys in this sweltering studio. We're all losing weight. We want to be like the fighters.

Benevita has to lose weight. Joe Warren has to lose weight. We're going to lose weight. That's how much we love doing this show. And we had to be here. I mean, let's be honest. Anthony Pettis is the new UFC lightweight champion you saw it right there. Now interestingly enough, there's no Dos Santos guy in back of Kane.

Maybe that will come soon. Anyway, we want to thank Dave Meltzer for stopping by. I always appreciate his insight. The OG, the godfather of MMA journalism. John Hackleman, good luck to him in the pit as Glover Tashara meets Ryan Bader. This Wednesday, UFC Fight Night 28. Also, good luck to Glover. Good luck to Joseph Benavides against Formiga.

Good luck to Joe Warren against Nick Kirk, Beltor 98 on Saturday. Thank you so much to Herb Dean. That was fascinating. loved hearing from Herb Dean. Thank you for stopping by, and thank you very much to Makkawa for stopping by as well. I want to thank all the fans who sent in questions, all of you who checked out the show on Labor Day here in the U.S. and Canada, and anyone watching overseas. Check us out, replay iTunes Stitcher. And thank you so much to the good people at Fox Sports One.

Remember, the Ultimate Fighter, it returns on Wednesday. This Wednesday, following UFC Fight Night 28, it goes from 4 to 10. That's UFC coverage, then Ultimate Fighter 10 to 12. Sports One, thank you so much for being a part of the family once again here on the MMA hour. Until then, we will see you next Monday, same time and place. To all the good people, listeners, peace. Support for this show comes from Volkswagen. As the U.S. gets ready to host soccer's biggest moment on a worldwide stage,

Volkswagen is helping people discover new turfs and new ways to play the beautiful game right here in the U.S. From deaf and power wheelchair soccer to beach and futsal, Volkswagen is actively supporting all the communities and teams within the U.S. soccer ecosystem. They're supporting talent from across the U.S. soccer extended national teams and are focused on helping to give these less widely known forms of soccer a platform moving forward. From the pitch to the sand and everything in between, welcome to our turf. Support for this show comes from Chase. If you're a fan of women's sports, you're always looking for ways to get closer to the action. and your Chase card can get you exactly that.

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