MMA Fighting - The MMA Hour - Episode 205

Episode Date: August 26, 2014

Featuring Benson Henderson, Diego Sanchez, Muhammed Lawal, Cole Miller, Michael Chandler, Marc Goddard, Emanuel Newton, and Steve Carl. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hello again, everyone. Boy, do we have a show plan for you today? Coming off a weekend where the UFC, Bellator, and World Series of fighting, not to mention a bunch of other organizations, held events. The big news, of course, was something that happened outside of the arena, outside of the cage on Friday afternoon, MMA Fighting.com first broke that Titor Tis is injured, injured his neck and training out of the once known as Belltor pay-per-view, now a free card on Spike TV.

Rampage Jackson not fighting this coming Saturday night. The new main event is Michael Chandler versus Eddie Alvarez. This created a crazy atmosphere on Friday afternoon as far as the MMA news world is concerned and it was a very interesting story to cover, and it's one that is really developing, but as you've heard me say on this show many a times, it is a blessing in disguise because that should have never been a pay-per-view to begin with.

And it almost feels like now that I think about it, and we'll get into this later on, it almost feels like this black cloud is gone from Bellator. Ever since that fight was announced, Tito Rampage, people, every time they talked about Bellator, even if it was a great thing, they had to talk about that fight and how ridiculous it was, especially the fact that it was main eventing their pay-per-view,

over the likes of Michael Chandler and Eddie Alvarez, Pat Curran, King Moe, etc. And you'd see it all over the cages and whatnot. Now it's gone, and now it's a free show on Spike. It went from a show that could get 10,000 buys on pay-per-view. Now it's going to get, in my opinion, 1 to 1.5 million viewers on Spike TV, a blessing in disguise. We won't talk about the money that was lost, but still, as far as the actual product is concerned, a blessing in disguise.

So with that backdrop set, let us talk about, today's show. We are talking, of course, about all kinds of MMA on this show, not just that particular news story. In the back, we're being joined by Mr. New York, Rick, by Will the Thrill, who is still mourning the loss of one Andrew Craig on Saturday afternoon in England, very much outclassed by Luke Barnett, but he'll live to fight another day, in my opinion. And, of course, we're being joined by Alfred Buskill somewhere. Actually, Buskill is right over there, right in my sight line, but, of course, not doing anything related to the show. going to be joining us on this particular episode of the MMA hour. Well, in the third hour, of course,

we want to hear from you. Hit us up using the hashtag the MMA hour. Leave questions, comments in the post below. We like to hear from you, especially on the website. We're showing you love. I've had to beat New York Rick over the head with a stick telling him to show some love to the website. He is finally listening to me. At 305, Mark Goddard, who was in the middle of that whole Melvin Galard, Ross Pearson controversial knee incident on Saturday afternoon in England, he'll stop by.

The referee, of course, he will stop by to explain all that and talk about some other stuff. Diego Sanchez, of course, involved in that amazing fight of the year candidate. Was it the fight of the century? I'm not sure about that,

but certainly fight of the year. Last Saturday, UFC 166 in Houston, he'll stop by a 245. 225, we're talking to Cole Miller, who, in my opinion, had the post-fight interview of the weekend, calling out the Eurofighters, calling out the Eurofans, and calling out Colin McGrubber.

And then he ran off into the sunset. It was great stuff at a call as he defeated Andy Ogle. Saturday afternoon in Manchester. We'll talk to him at around 225. 205. The brand new World Series of Fighting Walterweight Champion, Steve Carl, will stop by an amazing finish, a controversial finish, a great story. He defeated Josh Berkman, choked him unconscious.

We'll talk to him about that at 205. 145 Benson Henderson, the now former UFC lightweight champion, will stop by to talk about his loss to Anthony Pettis and what's next for him. And at around 125, we will talk to Emmanuel Newton who faces King Moloal for the interim, the Bellator light heavyweight title this Saturday, live and free on Spike. But first, let us go to the man who is headlining, and rightfully so, Saturday's event on Spike TV, Bellator. They were supposed to have their pay for you, as I said. It's not happening, and now, as it should have been all along, Michael Chandler v. Eddie Avres is the headlining act, and we're talking to the Bellator Lightway Champion. Michael Chandler, right now, right here on the MMA hour.

Michael, how are you? Oh, doing good. Doing good. How are you? I'm doing great. So how did you find out about this crazy turn of events on Friday? My manager called me. He had heard from Tim, the president of Belator, over there,

And just kind of got it figured out. There was some rumors going around. Certain people heard some certain things. And I was wondering, and then sure enough, got a call from my manager. And I'm just excited to fight on Spike TV as the main event. Are you more excited to be fighting for free on Spike TV than you were to be fighting on pay-per-view, your pay-per-view debut? You know, I don't know. I mean, to me, it's just another fight.

It's the same exact thing. go in and fight and, you know, not worry about the outside pressures, the outside, the outside, the outside, you know, stuff going on. Obviously, over the last couple days, there's been some crazy change and shift and what's going on. And now, you know, now the promos have to change and this and that. But we pretty much got everything done as far as the filming and the promos and all the stuff that, you know, the Bellator would be kind of up in my face, kind of messing with. my training with, we kind of got all that done.

They just kind of need to shift some stuff around as far as promos go, probably, and change it all that Chandler-Avarez instead of Cito and Rampage. But the same exact thing to me. And, you know, more than anything, it's a win for the fans. It's a great card, great card for you on Spike. So that's a lot better than pay-per-view for a lot of fans, you know. At any point were you told that they were considering canceling the card? No, because, no, because I only had one conversation with the manager,

and he said, hey, this is what it is. There's no pay-per-view. It's live free on Spike. And, you know, luckily, luckily I didn't have to go through that, man, because I would have been, you know, it would have been the second time this year that that would have happened. You know, it's a crazy sport, you know. These kinds of things happen. Fights get canceled. Fipes get postponed. The guys get hurt. You know, it's a crazy sport at times. And you just have to, you have to be able to take that step back and take a deep breath and not look too deep into it and not act like. you know, the world is ending if something bad does happen because, you know, this isn't the first time that a pay-per-view has been canceled, and it won't be the last. I can assure you that. So luckily, I didn't have to go through any kind of that kind of stuff waiting to see if I was actually going to fight November 2nd or not.

Financially, do you lose out on anything due to the fact that this isn't a pay-per-view and on the flip side, do you gain anything now that you're the main event? No. No, I don't lose out on anything. I can't really talk about it, I'm sure, but me and my manager have structured it to where we get compensated well no matter what. So it's a good situation. And, you know, it's one of those deals where, like I said, it doesn't matter. You know, the money and the win and where it is is secondary, all that matters is step into that cage and giving the fans what they want what you wanted.

You know, I was sitting in Albuquerque, New Mexico about ready to fight Dave Rickles. and, you know, as it always does, the me versus Alvarez got brought up, and you said it was a fight that you thought would help my career and a fight that you wanted to see, so that fight is happening, and I'll do this thing, you know. Wow, so you did it just for me. I did it just for you, you know. No, no, but I do, you know, I do remember that.

I was like, well, it's a coincidence, you know, we're doing an interview again, and, you know, we kind of had that talk, as I always do, you know, I'm always going to, I've always had to talk about, you know, a rematch with Alvarez, and now it's finally happened. And so after this, maybe I won't have to talk about them as much anymore, but we'll see. Well, you know, I don't care what organization, if anyone says to you that this isn't the, one of the most anticipated fights of 2013, they're absolutely lying through their teeth.

It's a huge fight, and that's why I believe this is a blessing in disguise, and that's why I would get so fired up when I would talk about this pay-per-view, because to me, you'd want this fight to be seen by as many people as possible. And I just don't know if Belator is at the point right now where they can be charging people, you know, 50 or so dollars to buy pay-per-view when you are essentially a TV company. Spike TV Viacom, they're in the TV business. This fight now, in my opinion, could get one to 1.5 million viewers, maybe even more on Saturday night. So why cut that audience so dramatically? Do you agree that it is a blessing in disguise that it is now free so that everyone can see what you guys will do on Saturday night as opposed to maybe 10 to 50, maybe 100,000 people? Yeah, you know, I mean, first and foremost, it's a huge blessing to the MMA community, the fans, anybody who wants to just, you know, turn it on Spike TV and watch the fights, you know, instead of actually having to go through the cable company and buying it and doing all that kind of stuff, you know, it's a huge blessing for them. And for me, yeah, too, I remember the first, the first time we kicked off on Spike. It was me versus Rick Hahn headlining that card, and we topped out at like almost like right out of a million views, basically. And with the amount of hits that this fight has gotten on YouTube, it's got 1.3 million hits on YouTube.

So there's been a ton of people who have seen the fight on YouTube from start to finish and realized how good of a fight it was. So with a fight that's had that many views on YouTube, I would imagine we will definitely be able to easily hit a million. you know, so we'll see. And it's exciting. And that's a lot of eyeballs. And, you know, it doesn't change the fact that, you know, I'm ready to go out there. And you've got a guy like myself who's ready to fight Eddie, and you got Eddie who's ready to fight.

And we're both prepared and willing to lay it all on the line as we did in the first fight. So it's exciting. And Spike TV is a big platform to be on. So I'm excited to do it. You're a good guy. You're a class act. But honestly, be honest with me right now. Were you annoyed, secretly, deep down,

were you annoyed that Rampage and Tito were headlining over you? No, man. I think if I wasn't just so easy-going and kind of, you have to try your hardest to look at the situation, how an adult, a normal-thinking adult would look at a situation. Yes, I think the fight that was most interesting was me and Alvarez. I think the fight that had the most on the line was me and Alvarez. I think the fight that had the most potential to put on the best show that night with me and Alvarez.

But at the same time, man, you know, say what you want about Teo on Rampage. They were pioneers of the sport. They're still some of the biggest names in this sport, not necessarily in their relevancy in the light heavyweight division or middleweight division, whatever division they're in. But I don't follow them way that much as far as they're big guys. They're bigger than me, that's for sure. So whatever they are, 205. But if you look at the situation. I just try to look at it like, man, it doesn't change a dang thing.

You know, it's, yeah, I agree with a lot of people that, you know, maybe mine and Alraza fight was probably a little bit more, a little bit more interesting. But at the end of the day, Belator knows what they're doing, Spike TV, Kevin K, they know what they're doing. So it's one of those things where I just sit back, train my butt off during training can to go out there and perform. So I have been told from numerous very good sources that the deal is this.

So obviously Eddie came back. He had that court issue. Essentially wanted to go to the UFC, couldn't. Now he's back in Belator, and obviously seems very fired up for this fight, and he gets a chance to avenge the loss. But I've been told that if he wins, he has to fight you again, defend the title.

If he loses, he is free to go. Have you been told the same? I have not. I think, you know, it's, you know, like you said, just rumors or, you know, you might have some good sources or whatnot, but I try to stay out. of the media as much as possible.

I try to stay out of your guys' websites and the rumors and this and that. That's all very nice. Well, you know, especially right now, you know, when I'm training, you know,

when I'm sitting in the office, you know, the two months after this fight and hanging out on the couch and just doing some maintenance, I'll read about what's going on and who said what about who and whatnot. But,

you know, I don't know. Like you said, they're just rumors. possibly, but, you know, obviously, I'm sure, you know, Bellator, it's not in their best interest to tell me. So I just sit back and train and we'll see what happens after this fight. You know, it's an interesting fight no matter what, so we'll see what happens after. Part of the reason why I love this fight so much, and I'm told this will be played up in the preview

videos that are to come out this week, is that it feels very much like Eddie's this kind of outsider who, in many ways, doesn't want to be there and was brought back, and you are the face of Bellator in my opinion, and there's this issue there and the way he talks about Bjorn Rebney and, you know, him kind of trying to, you know, go in there and take that belt and leave with it and all this stuff. And they're actually playing this up. Do you view the fight this way? I know you say you don't like to get involved in all of that, but I mean, it's impossible to ignore what's happening here. The guy wanted to leave. He's back. He's fighting you. When he talks, there's so much emotion and passion coming out of his voice. This is a very personal fight, and it's not just personal

between you and him. It's personal between Eddie and Bellator. Are you viewing yourself as like the Bellator guy that's coming to stop him from stealing the belt? No, absolutely not. I'm looking at myself as just myself, and I've trained my butt off, and I'm going to go out there and beat him again, you know, and it's unfortunate. It's unfortunate that he has a fight going on outside of this fight. I'm just so blessed with the way my life is, with who I have in my life, my management, my friends, my family, my supporters, you know, I have no other fights going on outside of my life. And it's so easy to take that kind of stuff for granted.

But so many people are fighting so many different things. This obviously is a business issue, basically. It's contract disputes and it's this and that. But, I mean, people are dealing with crazy things, family issues, deaths, and all that kind of stuff. You know, it's crazy to think what people are going through outside of their fights, you know, And I just feel really blessed to be able to just be able to, you know, focus on my training and really just go into that cage and fight, fight Eddie with a clear conscience and no regrets whatsoever.

And nothing weighing heavy on my mind. And it's unfortunate if that is weighing heavy on his mind, which I don't see how it couldn't be. But, you know, we'll see how he responds, how he reacts, whether his, you know, high level of emotions helps him or hurts him or whatnot. But we'll see. were only six days away, so it'll be fun. Do you think that will all be to his detriment?

Do you think that he is battling too much and is coming into this fight too emotional, with too big of a chip on his shoulder? You know, you never know. I mean, I'm not the kind of guy who thrives in that kind of situation. You know, I'm not the kind of guy. You're never going to hear me say, oh, they thought I couldn't do it, so I'm going to prove them all wrong, or they want me to lose or this and that, because I just think that's kind of a small,

in person talking too highly of the situation or making a situation, you know, bigger than it actually has to be. You know, the reality of every, the reality of this sport is if you work hard and you try to become the best person you possibly can be and you surround yourself with the best people possible, good things have no, you have no choice but for good things to happen. And that's really what I've kind of, that's really been the cornerstone of my fight career so far. And, and that's what I've done.

And, you know, you can't, it's not easy. It's impossible for me to get into Eddie's mind and know whether or not he is the kind of guy who needs haters or he needs some kind of extra, quote-unquote, fuel to the fire. But for me, the opportunity that I have in front of me, the blessing that I have of being well and able to fight in this sport in front of a million fans on Spike TV, that's enough fuel for my fire to wake up every morning, train my tail off and go out there and really be. try to get the most I can out of this sport. But can you honestly say that this feels the same as the Rickles fight? I mean, I know every fight you say it's the same, but this is much different than that fight, right? Or some of your other fights between, you know, now and winning the belt.

This is different, right? Um, it doesn't feel any different, really? Wow, that's shocking. Maybe it should. I mean, what's the big deal? You know, it's not even, I'm not even fighting. I didn't, I don't, I don't, when I step into that cage, I'm not fighting. I'm not fighting Dave Rickles, I'm not fighting Eddie Alvarez,

or I'm not fighting a guy with this ranking or that many years in this sport or this or that. It's another man, my size, around my height with around the same skill set as I do. And I'm just, you know, I mean, that's the way I look at this sport. You know, it's, I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing, but it's working so far. You know, I mean, it's, yeah, it's great. It's great that, you know, you guys view Eddie as a, as a, quote unquote better opponent than say Dave Rickles or

Rick Hall, but at the end of the day, he's just another man with two arms and two legs. My size, I'm going to go out there and freaking put on a show. It's unbelievable I commend you. I tip my cab. I'm not trying to get it out of you, but it's just an amazing thing because I'm an emotional guy, and I can't imagine going into a fight like this

and just thinking it's another fight. Didn't you, Spike TV president, Kevin Kaye, said on Friday that they shot something where you guys watched the fight together. Did I understand that correctly? Yeah, I think that airs tonight. Yeah, I think it airs tonight at midnight. If you're watching this live Monday night at midnight,

which is technically Tuesday morning, midnight East Coast time. What was that like? What was it like sitting down with the guy and actually watching the fight? Fight that you beat him. Well, we didn't sit down together. Oh, okay, okay. Yeah. So, I mean, that would have been wild.

That would be kind of cool. Yeah, that was kind of cool. As you know, I trained with Dominic. That was cool when him and Uriah did it. And I don't know if it was you or John Anick in between or whatever, but that was kind of funny, but we didn't, we didn't do it like that. It was, it was me and a camera crew here, right here in my, in my little apartment, and then him and the camera crew, wherever he watched the fight, and it'll be a back and forth.

And I'm sure you'll see the same scenes, like maybe when I first dropped him in the first round, they asked me a question, my input on that situation, and they're going to ask him his input on that situation, and then back and forth throughout the whole fight. And it'll be an interesting, a very interesting glimpse into, a lot of the questions that a lot of fans have had throughout, you know, the last two years watching that fight, man, I wonder how he felt during this situation. Man, I wonder what was going into his mind after that third round after he just got his face beat in for two and a half minutes. You know, I wonder what was going through Eddie's mind after he got dropped the second time and you'll actually know what was going to our minds because, you know, we're right there and it's a candid little interview and it should be cool. Do you view yourself as the face of Beltaire right now?

I mean, I don't know. I mean, I don't really know how to answer that question. It's hard for me, you know, if I just said, yeah, then I feel like I'm being an arrogant punk, you know. So I don't know. You know, I think I'm just trying to do my job, go out there and freaking smash people and put on good, good performances. And I hope Bellator uses me as much as possible.

But I would say I'm, you know, one of the guys on one of the top guys on the roster, you know. and they're continuing to sign more and more guys. So it's getting deeper and deeper, and it's exciting for me because I want to freaking just continue to fight. I want to continue for them to put guys in front of me. Well, they give us little clues. If you watch a Bell Tour on Spike, there's a Dave & Buster's commercial that airs a lot.

What was that like? You're sitting there. I'm sure it's not just one take, and you're there, a shirt off, belt there, and there's regular folks. And, you know, you're reserved. you're not the kind of like, you know, look at me attention-seeking type. What was it like doing that commercial?

Yeah, the first one, have you seen the second one? So the, okay, we're actually playing one as we speak right now where it's you and the couple. Is that the first or the second one? Is my shirt off? Yeah, your shirt's off in this one. That was the first one. And that was, yeah, that was awkward because we got to this Dave and Buster's at about four in the morning in New York.

And then we were shooting all the way until about noon or one in the afternoon, or like two or three in the afternoon, and about noon, people started coming in, and I'm sitting there, M&A gloves, felt over my shoulder, shirt off, little kids running around, looking at me like, what's his grown man, walking there with no shirt on? So it was a little bit awkward, but it was, it was cool, you know, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're, they're fun little David Buster's commercials. And, yeah, you know, the second one was actually cooler. I actually had a, uh, a couple more lines and, uh, it was, it was, it was cool.

and my shirt was on, which is a plus. But, you know, I'm hoping to continue this relationship with Dakin Busters and keep on doing more commercials, so we'll see. All right, let's put you on the spot. It was arguably the fight of the year. In my opinion, it was the fight. Actually, I should say it was the night of the year, because, as some may remember,

your fight happened at the same time as Shogun v. Hendo, an amazing night, November of 2011. This time around, Saturday, Long Beach, California. Are you envisioning an ending? Do you feel something coming? Yeah, I mean, there's no, I mean, in my mind with my confidence, there's no doubt in my mind that I'm going to finish them, and it's not going to be as entertaining as the last time, hopefully.

You know, my goal is that it's hopefully not as entertaining as the last fight, unfortunately for the fans, but, you know, the goal is get in there and show you guys how much I've improved over the last two years. But, you know, I watched that first fight, I see a lot of mistakes. I think my speed, my power, just my overall cage awareness has gotten a ton better. So I want to go out there and put my hands on them, put them in a fight, put the pressure on them, not let them breathe for however many minutes, we're in there, and get the finish.

By the way, to prepare for this fight, how many times did you watch the first fight? Only like once or twice maybe. I mean, there's not a ton. I mean, in my mind, I don't think there's a ton. that you can really watch. I mean, I, you know, or a ton that you can really benefit from. I have a great coaching staff here, you know, Eric Del Friero, who corners a ton of big-named guys now because we have so many great guys here at Alliance.

He watches the film, and my grappling coach Neil Melanson watches the film, and my boxing coach, Adrian Melinda, as they watch, they all watch the film and have come back and kind of, we've worked on certain little things and tweak little things. watch out for this, and let's capitalize on this. And I think this, this, this, and this is going to work. And let's focus on that kind of stuff. But really, you know, more than anything, you know, not for the technique, but for just the overall, overall, a little bit of a pat on my back,

you know, a little bit more of a confidence to be able to see him break in the fourth round, to see me not break in the third round. You know, as there's an exercise that you can, that you should, that I think you should do as an athlete. and you should write down everything, every great moment that you've had in your sport, whether it be competition, whether it be practice, whether it be outside the practice room, and make a mental highlight reel and play certain things over in your head. And just to kind of show you where you've come.

And, you know, that's definitely all my mental highlight reel. So every now and then I'll go back and watch it and just see the ending mainly and fighting back from that third round and going into the fourth. land in a big right hand and then mounting them and finish them. I haven't watched it a ton, but that's definitely a elemental highlight real. Can I wait. We're six days away. As of right now, it's Bellator 106, 9 p.m. Eastern on Spike TV. The people's main event is now the real main event. It's Mike Chandler versus Eddie Alvarez, too, for the Belator Lightweight Championship. Always a pleasure, Mike. Best of luck to you. Can't wait for the fight. And thanks for stopping by. Great to talk to you

for a few minutes here. Absolutely. Great to talk to you, too. And I will we'll see you on the next one. All right, there he is. Michael Chandler, the Beltor Lightweight Champion. It is the headlining act, and it goes down Saturday night on Spike TV. No longer is there Titor Ortiz versus Rampage Jackson.

No longer is there Vinicius Caros versus Czech Congo. And now it's all about Michael Chandler versus Eddie Alvers 2. King Mo Llewal versus Emmanuel Newton for the interim Light Heavyweight Championship. Pat Curran versus Daniel Strauss for the featherweight title.

There's also the Fightmaster Attorney finale, so a much better offering, in my opinion. One that makes a whole lot more sense for everyone involved. Saturday night on Spike TV. Now I mentioned the main event, there is the co-main event. As I just alluded to, it's King Moe. We had him on the show a couple weeks ago facing our guests at this time. Emmanuel Noon, he stops by the May hour.

Emmanuel, how are you? Pretty good. How are you doing this morning? I'm doing great. Thank you for stopping by. So this is a very interesting night coming up on Saturday for Belator, for you, for the entire sport. and I'll ask you some of the same questions I just asked Michael Chandler.

Do you feel like it was a blessing in disguise that this show turned into a free show from a pay-per-view? Yeah, I mean, definitely for sponsors and for the fans, you know, because not all people can afford, especially now where the way our economy is and everything, you know, to pay for.

I mean, I don't know how much bell is always going. I mean, what was $40, 60 bucks on whatever it is, you know, to see the show, you know? So definitely, being on spice. you know, I think it's going to make a lot of the fans happy. And do you feel like now, I said earlier, it felt like a lot of people were just, for whatever reason, not feeling the Rampage Jackson and Titor T's fight,

and now it feels like these are the fights that we really wanted, and we don't have to kind of deal with that other stuff, the promotion, all that. Do you feel like this is the card that should have always been presented as the top card of the year for Bellator? Yeah, I mean, definitely, definitely. I think Rampage and Tito would have been a plush, you know, I think, you know,

especially for them doing pay for them, doing pay-per-view, you got to have, you know, those big names, you know, those guys that have been fighting, you know, that have had the URC belts and stuff like that, you know, to sell the pay-per-view, but, you know, I think for Spike, you know, like this is, you know, we are, you know, we are, you know, we are the guys that have been fighting in the tournaments and the guys have been, you know, fighting for the belts. And so, yeah, so definitely, this is what, uh, the spike card, you know, is definitely, I think, uh, is what needs to be, what needed to be done, you know, with rampage of you

falling off. I think we definitely needed to revert back to spike 100%. So there are obviously a lot of big moments this year and the year is not done, but back in February, you're spinning back fist knockout of King Moe. One of the moments of 2013, it was a very surprising moment

to many, and since then a lot of people have been wanting to see this rematch. It has become somewhat personal. It seems like King Moe is very heated and it has said a lot about you going into this fight, and he claims you've said some about him, but I'm wondering from your perspective, do you feel like he has crossed the line at any point?

Yeah, I should have, you know, it's not like moat with my enemy, you know, we, you know, we've flown our plane before, you know, we've eaten with each other before, you know, and I've never said anything bad about this man, you know, everything, anything that I've said, you know, is, you know, it's often, I think it's been kind of irrelevant and true, you know, he's, you know, like I say, he's coffee, he's copy, I say he's arrogant, he is arrogant, you know, I say he's a self-reclaimed king. He's a self-proclaimed king, you know. So, I mean, it's not like I'm going out of the way and saying I'm going to punish him like Hannibal

Elector or, you know, or that I'm feminine, or that he's feminine, you know, anything like that. You know, I think that he's really pushed your boundaries. But that's just moat. And at the same time, you know, I don't let it bother me, I don't really get under my skin. I mean, I'm kind of amazed at some of the thing he says. Like, wow, like, you know, going that far, you know, having him said anything, you know, and then calling me a black-skinned head and saying that I'm talking trash and he's going to shut my mouth. I'm like, I haven't said anything, you know, I have nothing against the man.

So, yeah, definitely, he definitely talking trash. He's telling a lot of crap, but, you know, but, I mean, that's just smoke. You know, that's how he's how he's never to knock out like that before. So I'm sure at the same time, a lot of it is, I don't see, he's a little confused, you know, by me, you know, by my style of fighting, by my, my, my, my way I live my life, you know, by my personality. I don't think he understands it, especially with me being a black gentleman, you know, I'm not, you know, like, rap, and I don't walk around on big headphones on my head. And, you know, I don't, you know, run my mouth just like a lot of other black fighters do what most black fighters do, you know. I'm just, I'm not in me. It's ever going to be in me.

I come from, you know, I come from the South Bay, you know, I was born and raised in Torrance, you know. So, you know, I surf, I swam, you know, I was, I was a lifeguard, you know, like I was, you know, I don't know anything you can call me whitewash. But, yeah, I mean, that's, I'm just, I just, I prefer to, to, to, to, to, to, you know, I surf, I'm just, to, to, to, you know, be more of a, you know, more respectful gentlemen, and, you know, I'm not, not running my mouth about things. Because I'll run your mouth, man, and then, you know, things don't work out, like, you know, like you plan on them working out, just like this Saturday, I'm going to take them a lot again, you know, you can make sure yourself look a lot more,

you know, even more ignorant, you know. Does it bother you that in 2013 when, you know, sometimes people get upset, you know, you think about when analysts talk about draft picks and they're always like, oh, they try to use these words and people get upset. criticized for it. Oh, he's athletic. He's this and that. And some people say, well, why don't you just say that he's black? Why don't you just, you know, why are you trying to high would you feel? And then when it's a fight, a big fight between two black athletes and then it comes down to something like that, the black skinhead thing.

And as you mentioned, you know, your background's different than his. Does it bother you that it has to come to that, that it even gets brought up in, in promotion for a fight between two high-level black athletes? No, I don't know, because it's true, you know, I mean, the black athletes, you know, like we're, I think we are blessed, you know, I mean, you look at, you know, know, the NFL, you look at, you know, the NBA, you know, you look at any sport, you know, the dominating race is black. Not saying, you know, that we're better than, you know,

than, you know, than the other race. But I'm saying, like, we are, you know, like, I want to say, you know, we're blessed. I mean, it's kind of, it kind of sucks to say, you know, but, I mean, all the years of slavery, you know, it's like, you know, they bred us, you know. They bred us to be these, these amazing athletes, you know. So, you know, from all the years of working on the field

and doing all these things. So, and I really think it's true, you know. I mean, so, no, I mean, we work just as hard as the next, you know, but I think we are a little more, a little more, you know, we have more gifts, you know, because of all the, all the things that we went through, you know, during the slavery years, and, you know, I mean, people shouldn't complain about it because, you know, look what we've done for us now, you know, so for sure. I mean, I doesn't really bother me that much because I think a lot of this is true,

a lot of stereotypes are true, and, yeah, that's pretty much it, I guess. So tell me about your background. Your nickname is the hardcore kid. You say you're not like, you know, the rap type with the big headphones. You're into, what is it, like punk music, right? I mean, that's a big part of who you are, right? Yeah, the hardcore scene. Yeah, I mean, I lost both my parents pretty early.

You know, I lost my dad when I was, when he was 10. And I lost my mom when I was 16. And after my mom passed, you know, I really kind of just fell off the deep end. You know, I was going down that road of, you know, the rap and the, you know, gangsters and, you know, and, you know, I was a tagger and, you know, and getting into a lot of trouble, you know, and then, but I always have had that love for harder music, you know, so, you know, so I start hanging out with a group of guys, you know, they were called hardcore kids, you know, and they were like, okay, you know, we'll come, you know, come to a show

with us, so I ended up going to a show, and it was like nothing I've ever seen, you know, I've been to, you know, regular old mosh pitch, you know, like, but, you know, the shows I go to, they're not going to be at a warp tour, an Ozfest, you know, they're not going to be a man. strange shows, you know, you're not going to get any of the bands that I listen to, you know, unless you know hardcore or you are in the punk scene, you know, you're, you know, an underground scene, you're not going to know, you know, any of the bands that I name off, you know. So, yeah, just our way of life is different, you know, our style of dressing, you know,

you know, we're like, oh, you know, when we go to show the artist or, you know, straight-edge kids, you know, we don't drink, we don't smoke, you know, we just go and enjoy the music and enjoy the way of life that we've, that we've grown up on, you know, but, you know, at a time, you know, when I was really going through it and really struggling, to keep my head above water, you know, and my mom passed away, you know, and I was kind of by myself. I didn't really have any, you know, any mentors or anybody to, you know, anybody to guide me, you know, hardcore definitely stepped in,

and I think it definitely got me out of a lot of trouble and really changed my life. And obviously you can't speak for him, but why do you think he would call you and are more your fans, black skinheads? Why would you say that? Because that's just ignorance, because he doesn't understand. He figures that, oh, if you listen to heavy music, then you're just some heavy metal freaking black skinhead. you know, skinhead, freaking supremacist, you know, guy,

but it's not like that, you know, there are other kind of music than just regular metal, our regular old, alternative rock, or blah, blah, you know, there's hardcore, you know, there's punk rock, you know, there's a, you know, and a majority of the kids in L.A., you know, the majority of the hardcore kids in L.A., you know, are Mexican, you know, like, it's like, you know, that I live down here, you know, we're predominantly, you know,

a Latin racist, you know, so, so, so, you know, all, and all the show they go to, you know, and all the half of the band, you know, I'm Mexican kids, you know, but it's like, but there are other blacks, there are, there are white people, you know, and it's just a mixture, but, you know, there's no hate, there's no, you know, I'm better than you, or, you know, I'm skinhead, you know, we're all, we're all the same, you know, we're all just, you know, we're all kind of outcasts, you know, we all have, you know, have, you know, have lost the parents or having had our parents around, you know, or, you know, we're just different, you know,

so, so we found hardcore, you know, we found each other, and, you know, we're just, you, my friends and my family, you know, because, you know, I really don't have a family, you know, It's, you know, after all with my mom and dad, you know, I mean, I have my sisters and stuff like that. But I kind of, you know, I kind of went off my own when I was 16, you know, luckily I had a good friend, you know, and I was able to move out and, you know, and I've been on my own literally since I was 16 years old, you know. And if it wasn't for my friend, you know, especially after my motorcycle accident and a lot of things I've been through my life, you know, you know, it wasn't for my friend, you know, having my back and my friends, you know, me being able to crash on their couches, you know, for three months here, foreman and say, you know, my friend's and their parents, you know, I'd be, you know, I'd be homeless, you know, so,

yeah, so, but a lot of those friends are hardcore kids, you know, so my friends are my family, and the reason why is because of the hardcore, so I praise God every day for allowing me to be a part of the scene. I want to play you a quick clip of him on our show just a few weeks back. He was very fired up, and, you know, we've had Moe on the show before, but it seemed like he was coming into this fight with a major chip on his shoulder. I just want to play this clip for you and then get your response, all right? Here we go. Here's Moe on the, on the M.M.A.R.

Straight up. If you're going to be trying to act all brand new and shit, oh, Moe would act more, I'm not saying. I didn't say, I didn't say nothing respectful to them. And I was trying to be cool because I figured, hey, we train together in the past and I respect them. Well, I don't respect them. Well, I don't respect them more. If you could be like that, you keep it 100, you know what I'm saying? If you'll be you, be you, be you at all times. Don't be fake.

You'll see me. You can see me at the gym. You can see me at my crib. You can see me in Dallas. You can see wherever. New York. I'm all. always me. You know what I'm saying? I don't turn on and turn off. I'm always me.

And the man, I'm doing trying to stop like, oh, Moe's trying to be cocky and he got what he deserves. I'm trying to play up these motherfuckers, man. Fuck him. Fuck him and fuck everybody else that rides with me. That's how I see it. He's getting the ass with November 2nd. It's definitely going down. I'm going to fuck him up. So you hear that. Other than the typical pre-fight, you know, trash talk, does it, does it bug you? When you hear someone talk about you like that? I mean, one, I've never talked about them, even now when we've been talking, you know. Is he not a cocky? Is he not cocky? Is Mo not cocky? Is Mo not cocky? Is Mo not cocky? Is Moe not Is Moe not going to say, you know, F you know to somebody, you know, and stuff like that?

Like I've never said anything bad about the man. You know, I never, when I knocked him out, I never, I never said, hey, yes, if you get Moe, you know, blah, blah, blah, you know, he was like, you caught me and I was like, you know, he caught me and I was like, you know, you got caught. It's the name of the game. You know, you're standing bang. you know, it's puncher's chan. But I've never said anything bad about the matter. I've said anything bad about them or even talking. I say it's cocky. Is he not cocky? You know, I mean, but that's just, that's just his style, you know? You know, anybody that walks out with a crown on their head, you know, it's cocky.

You know, it's just a shit, you know, it's not like, you know, it was a city of people or a state or a country of people that voted you to be the king, you know? You know, this is in England, you know, it's like you yourself, if you're self-proclaimed king. I mean, I understand it's your style. I have nothing against it. I have no problem with that, you know? But it's like, but that that right there shows cockiness to me, you know, that you can say, I'm the king, you know, okay, you're the king, you know,

that's fine, you know, but that's cocky, you know, I would never call myself a king, the only king I have, you know, the kingdom of heaven, you know, and, you know, and I never will, you know, I only bow down to one man, I mean, well, to one being, you know, and that's my God, Lord God Jesus Christ, you know. So, I mean, I, but I've never talked to have about the man, I've never, I was never fake, this has always been me. I'm not fake at all, you know, I tell you, I tell you how it is, you know, like, I have no reason to freaking play it to anybody or, this is my, personality, you know? So, uh, so, I mean, he's, I don't even know to say about this, man,

I mean, I'm just, I'm just happy that it's happened on Saturday, so then after everything said and done, I want to hear his mouth again. He told, he told us that you walked up to him in the sauna and said, quote, uh, N-word, I'm coming for you. Is that true? What? That's what he said. No? Not accurate. It hurts me right there, man. That really does. Because you don't use that kind of language, you feel like that's not, I, I don't. I don't. Even when I do see super ghetto individuals, you know, like, like super just loud and just, you know, just gangster, gangster, gangster. I call him knick-knogs. You know, it's like, but it's not like I have anything against, against, you know, I can't, why, if anything, if I would expect, I wouldn't say that to anybody, because if I would go up and say to somebody or somebody would just come up and say that to me, hey, I'm coming for even if he was black, you get punched in the face and the sauna, you know what I mean? it's like why

like why would even say that like I remember we're in a sauna and I was just like and I just said I remember what I said I never said any word I'm coming for you I just said you know

maybe I said something like you know it's gonna be a fight you know but I mean it's like I would you know all respect if anything

I walk to my opponents and be like all respect you know this is business you know because it is you know it's a business

I have nothing against any of my opponents I don't want I always pray before I come out and I always say hey please allow my point

without having any injuries, you know, serious injury, you know, to fight, but, you know, I know they got to go home with their family, you know, I know they got to go back to training so they can, you know, get back in the ring and make their, make their living, you know. So, I mean, why would I come up and say that to somebody? So just by him saying that, it just showed me how much I'm in his head. That and that did he, is, now he's delusional to me, you know? Like, I was in there with, even if Dressie War, I was in that he's fighting on the same night, that he's fighting on the same night,

which is kind of ironic, you know, that me and Jesse once again, you know, are fighting on the same night, you know, that he, that I'd knock Moe out, you know? So, I mean, there's just a lot of things that are coming into play right now, you know, just with signs that I'm getting envisioned that I'm getting, you know, I truly believe that

that I'm ordained for this, you know, I truly believe that God put Moe on my path again, you know, to prove a point, you know, and that in that, he would say, one that he would say, F me, like, it's just, I don't understand why, when I haven't said anything bad about the man, you know. It's saying, like, he won't, everybody's saying,

oh, Moe saying this and Moe saying that. I still say the same thing. He's caught the arrogant. He's self-proclaimed King, and now he's delusional. That's one more madding, but these are all things that everybody else can see, you know? It's not like, you know, it's not like I'm just talking out of my ass, you know? Everybody else can see this, you know? Is it not true?

He's arrogant, you know, did I knock him out before? You know, it's not a chance that it could happen again. It's like, why would you talk so much crap? I mean, like, I understand, you know, he would be, you know, you don't say that, you know, lucky punch, you know, that, you know, and whatever, you know, but I mean, at least, you know, at least, you know, you least got to do it, that I did do it, and there's always a chance of it happening again. I'm only going to get more, more tactical and more, you know, awkward, and my style is only

going to get, it's only going to get better, you know, I thought like I haven't gotten better since the last time we fought, so, you know, if anything, you know, like, hey, I'm coming, I'm coming back to get them, I want revenge, you know, saying F you, and just run it in my mind, I just don't understand them. And I really don't. So I just think I confuse him, you know, the way I live, he's so used to, you know, if you're black, then you've got to be good. You know, I think he's just used to that, you know, he's used to, you know, if you're black,

hey, you know this rapper, oh, I know that rapper, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, I don't know the, I don't know what rapper. I don't listen to it. The only thing that I listen to are hardcore, classic rock, and then the station that I listen to my car listen to Christian music, fish up, you know, like in that, you know, it's all just, you know, praise music, you know, I just, I don't, I don't want to listen to something in music about, you know, money and hoes and, you know, and doing whatever it takes to get the money and then drugs and Molly and, you know, I think it's been in our generation.

You know, I truly think it is, you know, the music now, you know, the rap music now, at least back in the day, you know, you know, the big and small than Tupac, you know, in the old school, you know, it was about, you know, hey, I'm from the hood, hey, you know, this is my life, it's understandable, but now I think that, you know, the disrespect of women and, you know, and just using a drug and do anything you've got to do to get your money, whether it's, you know, still cheat or kill. You know, it's sad now, you know, and I just think he's confused that I'm not from that into that kind of music, but I'm not, you know, for what, man?

It hurts my soul. It hurts my spirit to listen to that kind of stuff. So I just, I mean, I have to him to say that I said, what do you say? If you nigger, I'm coming to get you. Is that what he said to us was you went up to him in the, in the sauna and said, N word, I'm coming to get you. And obviously, I can understand just listening to you right now, just how passion you got after hearing that. I just want to ask you two more things, and then we'll let you go,

and we appreciate the time very much. This has been very enlightening for us, and thank you, Emmanuel. What's your response when he says that you, you know, you threw the spinning back fist trying to run away? Like, it was, you know, he used the feminine line. Of course, he, he backtracked a little bit, said, had you thrown it in Victor FC like, he'd be eating out of a tube up until this point, but it was kind of just like you threw it, hoping for the best while running away. Your response? If I threw it running away, how did I catch you a midder? How do I catch her emitter?

You know, say if I'm running, you know, obviously, you know, he would have fell flat on his face, you know, or on the side of his head or, you know, however he would have landed. But I called him, you know, it had nothing to do with him. I threw the overhand right. He threw his hook. I saw where his hip was out of the corner in my eye. And I'm like, you know what, hey, you know, this is the time to throw it.

So I threw it and he was there. You know, I knew, I looked at his eyes when I landed. I put the picture over my Twitter, you know. I was looking directly in his eyes when I threw it You know if I'm running away You know One I wouldn't have called him And two I wouldn't have been looking at his eyes

But that's just my style You know And I think I think I have one of the most awkward styles in MMA And I'm going to show it even more on Saturday You know I'm going to show even more About how awkward my style is And how an orthodox I am So you know he can talk his crap

He can say whatever he wants But you know I'm glad the fight's coming So then all that can be said and done And I mean I just I won't have to hear this anymore because I've never, I've never had opponents be so disrespectful, you know, to me, you know, and running out so much when I'm not that kind of individual. Anybody, I have no enemy.

You know, I'm one of those guys where everybody's my friend, you know, I have no enemies. Nobody dislikes me. I never hear anybody say, oh, I know Emmanuel is an asshole or Emmanuel is this or Emmanuel's this or he's a good guy, you know. Like I'm sure I have my fault just like everybody else does, you know, but I try to make sure that I treat everybody with just a respect I don't want to be treated, you know, I mean, like it says in the Bible, you know, like, do on the others, you know? So, I mean, they want them to do them to you and live by the sword. So, you know, if you live by running your mouth and talking trash, you know,

then you know, you're going to get shut up. You know, if, you know, if you live by, you know, treating people like crap and being disrespectful, you know, then people are going to be that way back to you. So, you know, but I'm another thing I do that I turn the other cheek. So, but, you know, for this one, I'm not turning that cheek, you know. I'm coming forward and I'm coming to blast them. So let's get this done. Emmanuel, this has been great.

Thank you so much for stopping by. Great to talk to you and best of luck on Saturday. I can't wait for this fight. I think I'm a little more excited now after talking to you. It's Belator 106, and it's Saturday night 9 p.m. live and free on Spike TV. Best of luck, and thanks for stopping by. All right. Thanks for having me, guys.

There he is. The hardcore kid, Manuel Nudon. Fired up, it sounds. King Moe said a lot. There's a lot that's been said back and forth, and they're going to settle it on Saturday and a great rematch on Spike TV. Okay, let's move along. We spoke to the Beltor Lightweight Champion to start off the show.

Let us talk to the man who was once the UFC Lightweight Champion, and we haven't heard from him in a very long time, very happy that he's joining us right now on the MMA hour. He is Benson Henderson. Benson, how are you? Hey, what's up, I'm doing pretty good, man. I got no complaints, you know? Well, it's great to hear from you.

And, Amy, I've scoured the internets and media and whatnot, and I don't think you've really talked to anyone unless I miss something. Anything of note come out from you since the fight against Anthony on August 31st. Obviously, it didn't go your way, and you were very upset. We know how emotional you are. Any particular reason why you just kind of shut off? You were obviously active on Twitter, but no media, you just kind of stayed out of the limelight

for the last two months. Was that done on purpose? No, I want to say done on purpose. I think it's just a matter of, you know, getting back in the gym, not being too focused on doing media and all that sort of stuff. My focus is just on being in the gym and getting better, I guess. How long did it take you or are you not over?

it yet. I mean, do you still think about that fight a lot? No, to be honest, I guess I don't think about the fight a lot. I do think about me getting it back. I think about how I'm going to get it back and work my butt off to make sure I do get it back. My belt, that is, or Anthony Pence's belt now that he has it. My goal now is just to, you know, get the belt back. You know, just focus on that, I guess. I don't think about the rematch with the pedestal too much.

I think about looking forward and getting the back. And so reports came out afterwards that you injured your arm, but it wasn't too serious. Tell us exactly what happened and how you're feeling now. Yeah, I injured actually the same ligament that pitcher is injured when they have Tommy John surgery or whatever ligament. that is, I have a super medical term for it, and I don't know how to repeat it, to be honest. But whatever ligament that is, I injured that one. It wasn't torn. It was, I guess, a slight tear or whatever it's called.

And surgery was not required. One doctor recommended surgery. The other doctor, the specialist I saw here in Phoenix, did not recommend surgery. He said it could heal over time. He said a lot of times with athletes who, you know, beat the bodies up a lot, when they have an MRI, doctors look at the area of the body where they have the MRI. And they say, oh, man, it's a lot of damage here. It looks really beat up. It looks, you know, really old.

But it's from the years of activity. It's from, you know, me being wrestling since I was, you know, a teenager and using my body hard. So it looks pretty bad, but it's not really that bad. But then if a doctor who's not a special to look at it, sometimes they can think it's, oh, that's all from just the one injury. It's not all just from the one injury, though. The actual injury itself wasn't too bad. I take some time off. I do rehab.

Make sure you have a rehab been there. I was able to compete since then, and elbows good. Okay, we will get to the competing in a second, but I just want to finish up about that fight because the scene was very surreal, watching it all go down, because no one, including it seemed, the referee, Herb Dean, knew exactly what happened, but he let go, and this has come to light, obviously, recently with Husseemar Paul Harris not letting go. From your perspective, did you verbally tap, did you yell, are you surprised he let go? What exactly happened there? Because it seems like only you and him know.

Oh, yeah. I know there was very much, I know there are a lot of questions about that. It's pretty interesting. For all the guys who do Jiu-Jitsu, guys who have to go around, we know, you know, like, somebody taps, they say tap or they tap their leg, but the referee can't see it. Like, there's a lot of mutual respect, you know, among fighters, among Jiu-Jitsu players, you know, someone taps and the refs you see it. Like, I'm going to be, you know, they're going to be mad enough to let go and not crank it and break something. I'm going to be mad enough to admit. Yeah, I said tap.

I'm not going to act like I didn't say tap because no one else thought or anything like that. But yeah, I think I said tap and I could barely move my other hand, my free hand. It wasn't really that free. It was trapped with my other arm. But I think I could barely lightly tap with that hand. And I also said tap that it felt that he saw it, he heard it. And, you know, being a good dude that he is, he let go. Herb didn't see it, I guess.

I didn't realize that. But yeah, he let go. It was a good stoppage on Anthony's Park. You know, shows what kind of competitor he is, what kind of guy he is, to not, you know, go keep cranking on it after I tap. But are you surprised? Because you're Bendo. You know, we know that fight against Saroni.

I mean, you don't tap to anything. Are you surprised he got you? I always say, yes, I am surprised, but not because I can't be tapped. I get tapped in the gym. The thing people don't realize is, you know, like everyone taps, you get to a good, solid submission, guys switch up and yada, yeah, yeah, yeah, all that stuff. But now, the submission was tight, it was there. I'm not surprised I got caught in the UFC fight by a two arm lock, that's for sure.

But, no, I've been caught in my gym plenty times. I do jujitsu tournaments pretty regularly. You caught in judicious tournaments all the time? Well, not all the time. I think I've been caught twice in the past, like that. four years or something. But I do get caught. It happens. So I guess I'm not too surprised as being caught because, you know, it happens. I am surprised, yeah, that you would say I lost the MMA fight due to Armour. That's pretty surprising. Of all the ways for me to lose a fight,

I would have never guessed that. Some people were saying, you know, this is the first time that you walked out in the Ghee, the Black Belt. Did you think about that after the fact? And are you a superstitious guy where in the future you won't come out wearing that? you did get tapped in this fight. Oh, I haven't thought about that either. No, I'm not really too superstitious. I would say I'm the exact opposite of superstitious. If something works for me because I wore these socks,

I make sure the next time I don't wear those socks. Wow. I tell my buddies, oh, yeah, he was a friend with Hoise Gracie. And every time he went to a Hoys Gracie fight, Hoyce lost. So he refused to go. one of my fights. I bought him tickets and said, hey, you are coming to this fight

and made sure he came to the fight. I saw anything that's superstitious and I lost because of this reason. I won because of this reason. I don't believe any of that. I make sure the very next fight I either do it or don't do it the opposite way to make sure I have no superstitions.

That is the complete opposite of me. I commend you for being like that. By the way, I'm worried if you have some kind of fire in your house, you won't be able to be notified because it sounds like your fire alarm is out. Is that accurate? It is needing a battery replacement. I actually replaced it once,

but then kept going off. I don't know what to do now. Now I'm confused. I'm like, oh, I already took the battery and replaced it. And it's still going off. I think maybe I need to replace it again and hit the reset button or something like that. But, no, a lot of people bringing that up during the interview, so I just wanted to... Oh, nice. It's funny. I guess I'm

I... I'm just so used to it now. I don't and I'll hear it. By the way, why'd you keep the beard in the fight? And only that, why'd you braid your hair too? Well, to me, that part I have thought about, the hair I thought about, because I caught so much flack, I guess, so much from you guys, the media, from friends, from friends of my friends, and blah, blah, blah,

like, everybody, oh, you got to braid your hair. Every time you move your hair off the way, you get hit, and yada, yada, yada. I was like, oh, well, I guess we can try. I'm always on a constant personal quest to be a better fighter to improve myself. You know, I thought I could, from what everyone's saying, maybe I'll be a better fighter if I put the hair back and I won't have the hair in my face anymore. And if that makes me just a little bit better,

I will stole away my ego and braid the hair up and try and be a better fighter that way. And obviously, it didn't work. I was like, I have to get that. That's why I don't do superstitions. so for your next fight what are you going with I have no idea we'll see okay

might be braided back might not be have you started to think about your next fight we have a little bit my team and I my coach Sean Krause we uh we started thinking about

seeing who would who makes sense to quote unquote call out or whatever I don't exactly understand. I don't exactly agree with, you know, like, people always say, oh, you got to call who you want to fight next and say, you know, I want to beat this guy up because he's so ugly, and I want to beat this guy out of

him, so let's fight. Like, that's almost contrived and made up, and people can sense that, you know, like the fans can sense that. It's not real. You have just talking for the sake of talking, but, you know, fans know me also now. They know that every time I fight, I bring it. It's going to be an entertaining, good fight.

So I'll need to make something up and say, oh, I want to fight this guy, because his breath smells so bad. You know, like, no. But that being said, we're not quite sure who makes the most sense to match up against who we want to, you know, ask to fight next. We're kind of leaning towards Hafeld Dosanos. We think it would be a good fight with him.

Entertaining. A good fight, I think the matchup works well for us. I don't know if anybody has scheduled yet or not. He doesn't. He doesn't? At least publicly he doesn't. Yeah, I think maybe that might work. But I was going to ask your opinion, Errol, who do you think?

What is your opinion? If you've always asked me in my opinion, I always say, I don't care, I'll fight anybody. That is a true case. But I do agree with Chale Thonan. It is better to have a name. Somebody you say, you want to fight next. I'm not going to, you know, go so low as to say, I want to view up because he's so ugly. But I think Raphael Delfianz would be a good matchup.

he's a tough fighter. He's on a like four or five fight windstreet. I'm sure you can confirm that or tell me if I'm wrong. Yeah, but yeah, I think it'd be a good matchup. But who do you think? Who else is out there you think makes sense, Ariel? Okay. Who are the fans think?

I know you're online right now, and you get tons of replies and questions from the fans. What do they think? Who think they met is a good matchup? Okay, so here's the thing. You know, often there's this theory out there that the UFC doesn't like to book a guy coming off a loss against, a guy who's on a winning streak, but I think your case is different. You hadn't lost in a long time.

You were the champion, so you get to play by different rules. I like the Dosayno's fight a lot. I also like you versus Habib Narragamadov, and he's been doing some great things. If we're going to stick to the whole, has to fight a guy who's coming off a loss, I think you versus Gray Maynard could be an interesting fight, two guys trying to get back in the wind calm. And then the other one that's out there that I think a lot of people would be interested in, including myself, is the Gilbert Melendez rematch because it was so close the first time. what I'm thinking for you. I'd be happy personally with any of those options. I'll see. You have a, was that four guys? Three guys, you think?

Yeah. That could be possible. Yeah, I will admit. My initial impression is Gilbert. I'm not really too interested in rematches. I'm kind of, I'm kind of, I mean, giving my title back, I'll take any rematch. I'll fight anybody ten times. Doesn't matter. get you get my belt back. But not really too interested in rematches, like the drive, the desires, I guess not quite there, or what I want to call it. So not really too interested in rematches.

Other than that, you know, those other guys I haven't bought yet, so, you know, sounds good to me on any of those guys who they want to match me up against next. I think Dosano's of all of them. Oh, no, Khabib's undefeated, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, Khabi is undefeet. defeated. I think he'd be a good matchup.

We don't know if he's young, like, if, you know, like, he's a right. Ideally, John and I, John Cox, my coach, we were saying, like, who is going to be the best matchup to get

the towel shot again the quickest way. What is the quickest route? We're thinking, okay, well, we can either, you know, kind of not relax, but, like, you know, kind of take a breather and take two or three fights to get a towel shot back, like, you know, kind of improve our skills, get better, take her time and get a

towel try back, or we can, you know, ask to go get it and, you know, have the quickest survival possible back to the towel shot. And, you know, we both agree. Like, I want that. I think I'm not in, like, physically I'm fine. I'm not, I'm a pretty mentally strong. person, believe it or not. But I'm not like too shaking up about losing to peddice. I lost to pedis.

That's how on lock it happens. Do I still believe, you know, I'm a better fighter? Absolutely. Do I want to face off against him and to prove that? Absolutely I do. So I want to get back to the talent shot right away. That being said, we want the quickest path back to it. I don't care about the path of least resistance as long as the quickest path.

So that being said, you know, we're really used to things. Joe Sulla, Daniel, like Sean Shelby, those guys are pretty good at their job. They're pretty good at matchmaking. They're pretty good at promoting fights. That's what they do. They're pretty good at it. But that being said, you know, we talk to those same names around John and I. We deal with a hot-up of those finals because he's coming off a four-five fight-fight win streak.

He's looking pretty good. He's looking really tough. We heard his name for a long time now. We thought the timing would be right that he'd maybe be ready. The other thing is I am getting married, and I want to – the fight has to match, you know, work with my schedule, I guess, to speak. I'm always at the whim and will of my bosses, the UFC.

I fight one of if they tell me to. I go to here. I go to, you know, Mexico City on 22 hours notice. I go, you know, wherever they need to go. For this one time, I'm saying, you know, have to be not my schedule, obviously, but timing needs to work out for me. So we're looking to fight in early February sometimes. The other thing I was wondering was whether it should be pay-per-view or whether it should be free TV.

I'm always little bit by it. I love free TV. I love fight on free TV. I love fight on Fox. Just more people watch you. Yep. In pay-per-view, like, you know, it's only like, you know, 500,000, 600,000, who tune-ins. But I just like free TV lies.

We're talking millions of eyeballs eyeballs compared to a couple hundred thousand of eyeballs. And Fox is a – I love being on Fox. You know, great people, great network. Exposures just, you know, pretty good. So that's the other thing. Like, what do we ask for? Do we ask for a pay-per-view? Do we ask for a free TV card?

I'm leaning towards a free TV card. So we've got to, you know, first of all, make sure, you know, that UFC has a card that's available that we would like. The thing is that unless you're getting pay-per-view points, I feel like some people are blinded by the allure of pay-per-view, but I agree with you. You should fight on free TV. More people can see you.

That's why I was talking about this Bellator show coming up. I mean, they're going to have like 10,000 people buying that pay-per-view as opposed to like 1.5 million watching on Spike. If you're a fighter, you'd rather, at the end of the day, more people watching unless you get the points. Now, this is also what I'm wondering. You know, Dana White said after, as long as Anthony is the champion, it's going to be tough to give you a third shot at him.

He said it's going to take a very long time to get you there. So are you rooting for Josh Thompson to beat him? Is that what you want? No, not at all. It is what it is. Those two guys are going to fight. Whoever is going to win is going to win. The person who deserves the win is going to win.

No, you know, fluptus and, you know, anti-commoner, on lock. I'm not going to say it's a fluke. I'm not going to say he got lucky or anything. I'm saying he caught me, he caught me. So whatever's going to happen is going to be decided by those two guys in the ring. I don't really care what happens. I want a towel shot again. I'm going to work off to get there. I know it's going to be nothing about hard work, sweat. A lot of more times me getting punched in the face, a lot more times me getting kicked, a lot more times me doing what I do. We have a pretty good performance for success. You know, previously in my youth secret to get to a If I got to do it again, if I got to have another seven fights in a row, eight fights in a row,

kind of sucks, but whatever. Let's get started right now. Let's get started in February, you know. It is what it is. Dana White, same, you know, if the head has a belt, it's hard for me to get a rematch. We'll see about that. It's my job to convince him otherwise, and I'll do my convincing inside the octagon, not with my words, you know. That's the kind of guy.

am. I'll change his mind. Believe me. I will change his mind. But it's not going to be by doing my talking. I'm not by good of a talker. I'm not by chill-stone. I wish I was. I wish I could. I wish I could do that, but I'm not that good. I will change his mind, though, inside that locked him. I'm going to have him to be a believer. How much does it bug you that you can't get the Anderson record, at least right now? Because that seemed to be something that really was a goal of yours. You brought it up all the time. Oh, yeah. That definitely sucks. You know, again, And that's what happens in life. A lot of times, you know, you have this goal.

You dedicate yourself to it. You make all the sacrifices. You do everything you're supposed to do. You bust your butt. You train hard. You train hard. You know, people who do jitutes. People who do wrestling tournaments.

They train the butt off, but there's only one person who takes first. ADCC, some of the best top grapplers' submission guys in the world. And all these guys are multiple times. will champion, just absolute beast. There's only going to be one winner, you know, one guy who gets a gold medal. The other guys, that's life. That's what happens, you know.

So for me, you know, that's what it is. It's life that happens. And I will, you know, do what I got to do. I will take it in a positive note. I'll man up. Say, yeah, I lost it sucks. I can't get Anderson's record.

I train my butt off, and I was working hard. for it. Probably now, it's kind of looking like an outside chance that I can get it. But, you know, that's life sometimes. Sometimes you work your butt off

and you don't get it. That's what happens, man. That's life. You mentioned ADCC. You were just there. You were in China last week. And correct me if I'm wrong,

you won one match and then lost the second, right? Yep. I won my first match. Man, I shouldn't remember the guy's name. I always forget it. Those vigilanteam's always Give me a...

His name was Leonardo Nogera. Actually, I'm told by my fiance. Tough, tough, first match. Guy was, I guess, the Brazilian national champ. He won the ADCC trials in Brazil. He submitted everybody by guillotine. Very, very guillotine happy.

I won that match on point, 11-0. Had him in a couple of close submissions. She had me in a couple close submission attempts of guillotine. everybody end up winning 11-0. My second match, I did lose by submission to Ocavio Sousa. I remember his name. He's a tough guy. Pretty good.

Pretty good, definitely, you know, a good competitor. He ended up taking second place. He ended up catching me in a Uma Plata to Arm Bar for everybody who knows what auma plata is. And that's how you lost. And then you're out of the tournament. and how did the people treat you over there? I was really cool.

The ADC organization, they were awesome. They were great. They all did their jobs very well. I guess I'm a little bit biased. I'm used to the UFC, I guess. I'm used to the UFC treatment. I'm used to, you know, I'm a little bit biased, but I think the best organization in the world,

they have things run to achieve. I'm talking about organized. You're supposed to be. here at this time. You've got to be here at this time. They let you know like two weeks in advance where you're supposed to be and what you're supposed to be doing. They even tell you how you're supposed to be dressed. Oh, yeah. Like, it's going to be

kind of cold to make sure you do this. Or if you're kind of warm to make sure you do this. Make sure you have enough workout clothes for here. Like UFC as an organization, top notch, top notch. ADCCC, I got some use of the UFC, so ADCC, it took me a while you used to it. There wasn't a whole lot of instructions. Wasn't a whole lot of

guidance or help or anything. But, you know, that's how it goes. And by the way, now that you're no longer the champion at least for now, would you consider going up to 170? I told Dana. I was texting them before. Actually, I asked his opinion on fighting on free TV or fight on pay-per-view. I hit him up, like, maybe two weeks ago, I texted him,

and he told me he likes free TV. He said as a brand, giving your name out there, being seen in front of you, a bunch of eyeballs. He likes free TV. I was a guy. I agree to say, oh, yeah, me too.

I, I've always thought that for free TV. But that being said, yeah, it was, you know, it was good. Wait,

wait, you're not answering the question. What about 170? Oh, yeah. No, I told, I told Dan,

my dad, yeah, I told Dan that I would be willing to go up to 170, not as a permanent fixture at 170, but to get a couple of fights.

Kind of like how many deals did. Right. Before to just, you know, not have to worry about the weight cuts too much. For me, that's always the hardest part of me fighting is getting down the weight. So if I had to go out 170, I think I'd be okay with that, you know, not for superfighting, because that's probably off the table right now, but just to go up there, maybe help the UFC out. Somebody gets hurt late notice replacement or something like that. I have no problem making 170.

I can make $170 probably on, like, you know, a day. notice, two days notice. So, you know, that being said, I would help out the UFC and take 175 if they needed a late-nilist replacement. Well, Benson, good to hear from you. And by the way, we didn't get to this because I don't want it to be awkward. It's your first time back on the show, you know, you kind of ducking me in the whole basketball game thing. And, you know, my mom saying that she would, you know, do a jit-to match against your mom on the undercard. I mean, it's just getting, it's getting a little awkward now that you're just kind of ducking all of us at this point. So, you know that I go, you did say, you did say, you said, if you lose to me, you'll

retire, right? If I lose to you and I give a basketball, I will retire from the UFC. Wow. Oh, Juanita, you are so ugly. I'm going to beat the ugly out of you. There it is. There it is. Well, you know I go to almost all the events. You better bring your basketball shoes. I'm bringing my basketball shoes. And my mama, she's down. Let's do it. Sign them up. They can be the main event for pay-review.

Look, you know I go. Polani versus Mama Henderson. Hey, I think that would be fantastic, and your mom would probably do pretty damn well against my mom. But here's the thing. I go to most of the event, so it's up to you to tell me in advance. I'm going to go to this event. You know, you're cornering guys and whatnot.

Sometimes we don't know if you're going to be there as a guest fighter. So you tell me and I will be there. And, you know, I just want to know where to do the announcement where to have the press conference for your retirement because it's going to be a very sad day that I'm going to have to end your great career on such short notice. All right, let's do it. Let's do it. I'm going to let you know. A lot of times it's such late notice, I don't realize I'm going to the U.S.

I don't realize I'm going to the U.S.C. until, like, two hours before or the day before, and the UFT says, hey, we need you to go to this, you know, UFC. event. I always, of course, say yes. All I hear are excuses right now, Benson, all right? Just you're throwing it. You're going to be the second person I call. I'm going to come off. I'll say, tell her, let her know, and then I'm going to call you and let you know. In the words of the Rock, just bring you.

it, Benson. Just bring in no more excuses. Just get ready for that future career outside of fighting because it's about to that your current career is about to end. Thank you so much, Benson. Thanks for stopping by. Great to hear from you. And looking forward to your turn. Most importantly, I think it's going to be a great thing to see. I think so on, I appreciate the time now.

There he is. Benson, Smooth Henderson, stopping by the former UFC lightweight champion. Can't wait to meet him on the basketball court. Okay, let's move along. Big news on Saturday night. WSOF, World Series of Fighting. they crowned their first ever Walterway champion. His name is Steve Carl, and he joins us right now on the MMA hour.

Steve, how are you? I'm doing pretty good, I'm excited to be here. Well, pretty good. You're the champ. You're the first ever champion in this organization. I'm assuming a little better than pretty good. Well, I'm feeling a little sore, a little beat up right now, but yeah, I'm doing good.

Okay, I want to talk to you about the finish. It was obviously a tremendous finish you submitted Berkman. He has looked so good. as of late, and a lot of people were counting you out in this fight. But it was somewhat controversial only because the referee, Troy Waugh, for whatever reason, didn't see the taps. And I'm assuming had he stepped in there, Josh wouldn't have been left unconscious. Unfortunately, he got in there late and he went to sleep.

Now, what I'm wondering is, did you feel the taps? And if so, why didn't you just let go? Like, you know, this pet of Benson-Henderson situation, we were talking about 164, Husse Marepaul-Hires has received some criticism for not letting go. Why didn't you let go? Well, first off, the difference was I had Josh in a choke, not in a submission. In a choke, you just go to sleep, and you know when your opponent goes to sleep, then you can let go. In a submission, if you don't let go, you're going to hurt him, you're going to injure him.

That was the big difference there, and my job as a fighter is to not let go until the rep pulls me off and it comes to a choke. I saw both of the taps. His first tap was on my chest. The second tap was on my stomach. The first tap, he didn't really tap too hard. It was like two little taps of his hands, and I immediately told the rep he tapped. But I didn't let go. I kept the submission on.

He tapped his second time, and then I felt him go limp, and I immediately said he's out. The ref checked his arm, and when the ref checked his arm, I let go because I knew immediately he was out. The rep never grabbed me or anything. He immediately waved the fight off. Were you expecting that? Were you expecting that? Were you expecting to submit him like that? If you were told me that I was going to choke Josh Berkman out in the fourth round going into this fight,

I would have told you you're crazy because I didn't think I had a fourth round in me coming into that fight. Why is that? Because of what you said happened leading up to the fight, the hospital visit the back injury? Absolutely. I didn't feel like I could go four rounds. I didn't think I had the cardio. The only game plan I really had was, you know, to finish him off early. But within the first minute of the fight, as soon as we got a hold of each other,

I knew I couldn't go muscle and muscle with him because I would wear out too fast. So what exactly happened to your back? And it was two weeks before the fight. Two weeks before the fight is when I finally hurt it enough to go to the emergency room. It was about five weeks before the fight happened. I was weightlifting, and I thought I'd just pull. my back deadlifting and I didn't think a whole lot of it you know I had this big fight coming up I had to train for so I just kept training I kept trying to push through the pain but it kept getting

worse and worse and uh the last three or four weeks of training it wasn't even training it was you know just barely trying to get workouts in trying to get my cardio going uh I'd go in and work out like three rounds it would hurt so bad I'd have to stop and uh you know finally it went It went so bad that I had to have help taking my jock strap off in the locker room because I couldn't bend down far enough to get my underwear and my jock off. And I'm like, all right, I had to go to the emergency room. I got to get help. And so I did.

And then I started seeing physical therapist and I told them, you know, making wheelchair to me to this cage, I'm going to take the fight no matter what. And they said, well, your best bet to take this fight is you need to rest. until the fight, you just have to rest it, not use it at all. So that's what I did. So you didn't do anything for the last two weeks? No, I went and I rehabbed it, did a bunch of different workouts. Yeah, a week before the fight, I could not twist far enough to throw a full punch or a full kick.

Wow. I've trained for eight years in this sport, and I knew that I could get in there, I could do it. But my biggest fear was to end up in the championship rounds, the fourth or fifth rounds, and just have no energy. And that's where I found myself. But luckily enough, I was able to hold together and get the finish. How did you feel physically in the locker room before the fight?

And then in the middle of the fight, I mean, how much pain were you in? Before the fight, it wasn't a whole lot of pain. I had rested it. I had got a lot of movement back. It was still hurt You know I got torn muscles

And my lower back And that Definitely uncomfortable It hurts Right now I'm in a lot of pain I'm back to being Where I was a couple weeks ago

It hurts really bad But In the locker room I was I was nervous You know I haven't been nervous In my last fights at all

And I I knew mentally I wasn't where I needed to be In that fight I didn't Mentally feel like I was who I wanted to be, but I knew I wasn't going to quit. During the fight, I thought I had already lost because I was so tired.

I was exhausted. I hadn't felt that tired in a fight my entire career, but I was not going to stop until he made me. Fights kept coming. It's interesting that you say that you were nervous because a lot of the talk going into this fight was how you battled your issues with nerves leading up to your fights and how you felt early on in your career, like you were only fighting at 10% because you used to get so scared going into your fights, and for whatever reason you've been able to conquer this fear,

and thus we see this amazing winning streak. You're now championing your organization. Did you get nervous on Saturday night about the idea that you were actually getting nervous? Did those old feelings start to mess with your mind? It wasn't the old feelings. It was the new feelings. You know, biggest fight of my life and the least physical. conditioned I've ever been walking into a fight. You know, if I try to play poker without a full deck. I was, yeah, I was just kind of, the whole situation just was overwhelming me a little

bit, but I did a good job of trying to remain calm and get myself through it. but I yeah I did not feel the confidence I did not feel the you know the inner strength that I have had in my last fights I you know

I felt like a shell of myself when I was standing in there a lot of people say that they they battle anxiety and they're able to overcome it and sometimes you don't really believe them the proof is in the pudding here I mean the streak that you're on

how you're looking submitting guys it's right there and it's right there and it coincides with when you say you stop getting so nervous before your fights. How are you able to overcome this? You've got to believe in yourself. Self-belief is the most powerful thing I think anybody can possess. And if you don't believe in yourself, then you're not going to be able to achieve things.

If you truly believe that you can accomplish something, you're going to make it 100 times easier than if you walk in there thinking there's no way I can do this. Because guess what? You're going to fulfill that prophecy, and you're not going to be able to do it. and I realized, you know, the biggest thing hold me back was myself. And once I lifted up that barrier, it just became so much easier.

Now do you feel as though you're completely cured of this? Yes, can you hear me? Yeah, yeah. Sorry. Do you feel as though you're completely cured of this issue with anxiety before your fights? For the most part, but obviously that wasn't quite the case on Saturday,

but I don't feel like like Saturday was a regular fight for me. I'm really excited to defend this title because I know I'm going to come back and I'm going to be in the best physical shape I ever have been and whoever I'm fighting is going to see this last fight and not think a whole lot. So it's going to be great for me to get back out there 100% and show everybody what I can really do. You know, we can't sit here and say like, you know,

being the WSOF welterweight champion is like being the UFC Worldterweight Champion. that just wouldn't be fair, and I think you would agree with that. But to be a champion, to be the first champion of the organization you're fighting in, to get that recognition, to be on this streak, for a guy who, you know, some fans may recall from Bellator, but then you kind of disappeared for a bit, what does this mean for you? Does this, you know, were there times where you, you know, question your place in the sport?

Were there times where you didn't want to, you know, continue fighting, or you thought maybe you should do something else? Just being a champion now on a nationally recognized elite, on a platform like NBC Sports Network, does it do anything extra than just being, you know, a champion would do for a fighter? Yeah, I mean, it feels great, and I'm in a great position.

But as a person, it doesn't really change me a whole lot. And there was a time when I thought I didn't want to do this sport and I wanted to move on. And that was the beginning of my streak here. I made a choice. You know, if I'm going to continue to do this, then I'm going to do it.

I'm not going to, you know, let all my fears and all that stuff hold me back. And being able to be the first champion for World Series of fighting is huge. And it really hasn't sunk in yet. Like, honestly, I was so exhausted during that fight that the only thing I felt when the fight was over was disappointment. Because I thought the fight was horrible. Because I was so tired during the whole thing, I didn't think that the fight went that great. but after watching, I'm not too

angry with the performance. I just really want to get out there and defend that title and, you know, make a highlight reel out of the next one. Do you think you'll need surgery on the back? No, I went and got an MRI the week of the fight

because I wanted to make sure I wouldn't end up paralyzed or in worse condition afterwards. It was just a bulging disc and torn muscles. through therapy and everything I can have that all healed This streak that you're on

I believe it's what seven in a row all via submission Is there Are you going for this Like are you trying to continue this streak With submission wins Is that something that you're shooting for? No

Finishes Period is what I'm shooting for I'm a big advocate About finishing fights Because there's too many fighters nowadays That go out there Trying to win trying to go out there and just win the round, score points.

When that's not what a fight's about. The fights about going in there and dominating your opponent and putting them in a position where they can't continue. And I think all fights should be finished. I mean, don't get me wrong, there are fights that go all the rounds and are really exciting and they're fun to watch. But when you watch a wrestler go in there and just out-wrestle somebody for three rounds, that's a boring fight.

And I don't want to be that fighter. So this streak started in December of 2011. Around that time, after you left Belator, you were kind of, you had a foot out the door, you were thinking about leaving the sport? Yeah, a little bit. Why is that? I was thinking about leaving it,

but then I thought, and I was like, you know, what else am I going to do? Why did you want to leave, though? Why were you thinking of leaving? Because of my performance in Bellator, you know. I never wanted to be a fighter. I just got into the sport just to be more confident myself. And then I got in my car accident.

The doctors told me, you'll never be able to fight again. You're not going to be able to play sports. But I knew I was good, and I knew I could reach a top level. And then when I got to an organization that was, you know, on an upper level, I was scared. And all the feelings that I was trying to get over with or get over by getting into the sport, we're all there, and they were overwhelming. And, yeah, it just kind of made me want to give up and quit.

But, you know, that's when I made the conscious decision to just allow myself to do it. Well, a good thing that you didn't quit because now you're on a roll. Do you think that they're going to give you John Fitch next? I would think that that would be their number one pick, but I'm ready to fight whoever they throw at me. and do you think you'll be out for an extended period of time because of the back? No, no. I'm going to rest it up for a couple weeks, try to stay away from the gym, stay away from working it out,

and I'm going to continue the rehab that I've been doing the last couple weeks. I'm going to continue seeing all the doctors and all the physical therapists that I've been working with. Those guys are great. I mean, not only do they get me to the fight, but I won the fight, and it's because of those guys. and I'm going to continue working with them guys for the next couple months and I'm going to be ready to go better than ever

Well it's a great story congratulations Steve That was a long day of fighting on Saturday with the UFC event and then WSOF And you capped it off very nicely with a great submission win Congratulations on being the first WSOF champion And very much looking forward to your next fight continued success to you Thank you and I really appreciate having Or you having me on the show it's a real honor Oh my pleasure

Thank you so much. Best of luck in your next fight and beyond as well. We'll talk to you soon. Thanks. There he is. The first ever World Series of fighting, Walterweight champion, 170 pounds, of course. Steve Carl, if you have not seen that fight,

the ending is something to behold, especially considering how good Josh Berkman looked leading up to that point. Looking forward to seeing what's next for him. Perhaps John Fitch, who really in some ways turned back the clock on Saturday. He was in very much, need of a victory and definitely lost the first round, had his back against the wall,

came out second and third, and won his fight against Marcel Alfaya. So that could be the next fight for Steve Carl. Okay, let's move along. I mentioned Saturday was a very busy day. I sat in front of the television, my friends, for almost 12 hours, watched every single fight, every single UFC, every single WSOF fight, the 12, no, the 22 in total 11 hours and change. And it was a lot of fun. And in my opinion, one of the highlights of Saturday, afternoon, and night, and definitely the highlight when you talk about post-fight interviews, was what Cole Miller did inside the Octagon in England after he beat And Diego. The performance was spectacular. The sweep to the arm bar, unbelievable. But I love that stuff afterwards. And we got him on the phone right now to talk

about it and a whole lot more. Cole, how are you? Thanks for having me. My dad, you are a beast for watching that much in a minute one day. Well, thank you. By the way, are you under the water? What's going on over there? I can't really hear you all that well. Under the water? Hmm. I make an adjustment. Okay. It sounds like, it sounds a little robot-like your voice. All right. Can you hear me any better?

Much better. Okay, perfect. Great. So, yes, I enjoyed it very much. And as I said to you privately, your post-fight interview was fantastic. All of it was fantastic. Calling out the Eurofighters in Europe. and then what you said about Connor McGregor, Colin McGruber, I believe you referred to him as, when did you come up with the idea that this is something that you want to say and just ignore Joe Rogan's question, say what you had to say and then walk off. When did that come to mind?

I guess it was fight week, but, you know, as far as like the whole issue that I had and some of the stuff that I went over, you know, with the more extended. interview with the media in the back. That was obviously all, you know, stuff that I had been thinking on for quite some time. But some people say that stuff, like you said in the back, a lot of people don't have the presence of mind to just ignore Joe in the cage, say what they have to say, and then walk off.

I mean, it's very Chal-Sun-and-esque, but this came from the heart, and you could tell that this wasn't some kind of script that you thought of. You were just, you know, you were trying to rile them up, but you had something that you wanted to say. How did you even remember after a fight like that to say, okay, I got to do this right now, and then walk up, do the whole thing, and not just do it in the back where less people are watching.

Well, I mean, we only have such a small window, you know, and, you know, Joe has those questions that he's going to ask you, and sometimes it's really difficult for you to try to make the point when you wanted to make while still answering the questions that he has for you, which, you know, he has to come up with while watching the fight. So it's always good to have an idea. you know, of something along the lines of that you want to say after the fight. So I pretty much just kind of had something that I wanted to say.

And then after the fight, it kind of just all came out. I said, you know, I said what I wanted to say. And then I was like, all right, time we get out of here. Yeah, and what was it like? Because that shot of you walking out to booze, it was great. I mean, it's the stuff that I think combat sports is all about, that you need this kind of stuff. And now people want to see you either win your next fight or get your ass kick,

but they are emotionally invested in you. What were some of the things that you were hearing from the Manchester England crowd? Well, what's funny is, you know, I'm over there and I'm fighting a guy from England, and when I walked out, I was getting booed to. So these people want to boo me, and then after I win, they want me to say,

so happy to be here in Manchester and fight for you guys. Go United. They want me to say some crap like that after they just got through booing me and cheering me in my walk out and cheering for the other guy during my walkout, you know? And they'll be like, oh, no person. We were just, you know, going for our guy,

but then they want to get offended when I say something about, you know, a couple of fighters from their continent. Did you catch any insults on your way out? Oh, yeah. I got a couple of FUs. One guy, I swear he had to have had somebody holding on to his ankles. He would lean in so far over the band to stick a middle finger in my face.

Were you tempted to say anything back or do something back? No, of course not. No, okay. I've got restraint. Come on. Okay, all right. Well, I didn't know. You know, emotions were very high.

Was this, you know, obviously you had something you wanted to say and we'll get to the actual message. But, you know, last few fights you've been kind of up and down, and it seems like, you know, you're kind of stuck, you know, in the prelims for a while here. Did you feel like you needed to do something to get your face and name out there? Because now, you know, you were one of the guys that everyone was talking about after this show with some big names. Did you feel like you had to do this? Well, I mean, I knew I had to win. As you said, I've kind of been up and down, but I've been up and down because of what some 50 and 60-year-old judges have said about my fights.

You know, if you actually went back and looked at them, as far as I'm concerned, this is four wins in a row. You know, I lost a split decision to a Californian in California against NAMFAN. You know, I thought I won that fight. And then, you know, I beat Bart Pallashevsky. And then, you know, I thought I won that one that was, and so did the media. Everybody, in fact, Dana White, Lorenzo Fertita, everybody came back and told me what was up. I read all the play-by plays of the media against my fight against May and Gambarian.

And, you know, they all said that I won the fight, and then I won every round of the fight. So as far as I'm concerned, I had momentum going into this fight. these people want to say that I lost, you know, in quotation marks, but, you know, I'm the one doing all the damage and nobody's hurting me. And, you know, it's kind of hard, you know, when these judges don't want to give you any love, but they're not qualified, they're not even qualified to be making the calls that they're making. And that's kind of disgusting. And that's really unfortunate in our sport because it changes the whole landscape of our sport. because when you have unqualified people judging mixed martial arts, it changes the way that mixed martial arts is actually fought

because fighters are now adjusting their styles to please people that don't know anything about our sport and coaches are training their fighters to please these people that don't know anything about our sport, right? Very well said, yes, absolutely. Yes, and for now instead of, and people want to, you know, think that oh, he's just bitching or complaining because he hasn't won these fights in her. And while I'm like, look, you can keep all these decisions.

I'm a martial artist, you know, and I walk out with my head high. I fight my kind of fight. You know, so if this, you know, this guy that's buddies with somebody else that's buddies of a governor says that how well stuff I, I really, I truly don't care. I really want, I want my win purse, you know, of course, you know, that's why I'm in here. I'm trying to do this as a profession and get paid, but I've got my head at hell high. You know, I go in there with my style trying to look for finishes nonstop the entire fight and do damage to my opponents. But most of all, I love this sport.

I really do. And I want to see it make progress. I don't want to see it regress. And with the judging and mixed harsh arts and with how coaches are coaching the fighters and how fighters are, you know, manipulating and molding their styles to please people that know nothing about it. It makes a sport regress. And that's really unfortunate. And it's something that I've been seeing for all of the five, and it really makes me sad. You know, since making his UFC debut back in April, Connor McGregor has become somewhat of, you know, a megastar here.

I mean, everyone's talking about him. Everyone enjoys what he has to say, his interviews, and he's been calling everyone out. But the Featherweights haven't really been calling him out until what you did on Saturday night happened in England. So you called him, call him a grouber, you call him a show pony after the fact. Why have you been so bothered with what Connor has been doing since entering the U.S. UFC. Thank you for asking me that. Okay. Because most people, they want to say, you put words into my mouth and they don't want to say, why did you, why did you ask that? You know, so thank you for asking me that question. Um, you know, like you said that, he came out and he called

everybody else out. Two of those people he called out are my, my teammates, uh, Nick Lentz and Dustin the Diamond Porier, you know, and, and that, that offends me. You know, you, you, you, you, This guy, he comes in, you know, he beats a real tough game opponent, and Marcus Brimich and finishes him in good fashion. And his next fight, he fights a real tough guy, guy, I respect a lot, Max Holloway. But people were talking about how great he looked. You didn't finish a 21-year-old kid with eight MMA fights. And now people are talking about you getting the fight for the belt and fighting top ten.

and you're going to call out two people that train on my team, that are my homies? Nah. You know, you don't get this, skip all that after not finishing a 21-year-old kid with A-M-A ballots, and then just skip and get the fight, Dustin Poirier and Nicklinson, and then talk crap on these guys, man, because those guys will murder you. Why do you think people are so enamored by him? I mean, we've had him on the show. He's very entertaining.

But why do you think he had... Well, he's awesome. Right. He's awesome. He's a good fighter. He's super charismatic. you know, and I think that he has a style that fans want to see. You know, clearly, I think that he's a good fighter,

but do I think that he deserves to be getting flown here and there and get to just skip to the front of the line? No, not at all. You think he's overrated? I think that he needs to be tested. That's all I think. I don't know if he's overrated. That's the problem, is that I don't think that he,

you know, he gets to earn, you know, after two fights, and, you know, he don't even have two finishes in the UFC, and he gets to just jump to the front of the line and fight these top-name guys. You know, you need to be tested and be tested by a real season fighter. Did you see his tweet response to you? Yeah, just a few minutes ago. It was pretty good.

So he wrote, Welcome Abord, Cole Miller. I'm now sponsoring his 16th Facebook fight, my logo beyond his chin, his payment is this tweet. So it sounds like he's taking the bait. You think this fight is actually going to happen? I mean, I would like to see it happen. I think that I'm the kind of guy that can give him problems. You know, I obviously have a wealth of experience in the octagon.

I'm a Brazilian-Jivisian black belt. If you look at, you know, the list of all the opponents that he's faced, he's never faced anyone like me. And did you have a chance, you know, Dana White was there, a lot of UFC movers and shakers. Did you have a chance to talk to them about this? He's injured right now, but maybe, you know, it sounds like March, April, he might be ready. Did they say they liked your idea?

Because it actually, it makes a ton of sense. I mean, it's a great matchup, and it's the right kind of fight, I think, for both of you at this stage in your careers. Right, thank you. But, no, I didn't get to talk with anybody, unfortunately. You know, after the fights, we were taken back to the hotel, and I just, I pretty much just packed and was getting ready to get on out of there. I had a really hard week with the weight cut and the fight itself. So I was trying to go home.

I will get to the wake-cut in a second, but can you imagine it sounds like they're saving him for Dublin. You versus him in Dublin, you talk about, you know, a hostile territory. That would be insane. Would you relish something like that going in there and fighting their guy in Dublin, Ireland? Sure, yeah, I mean, like, that's not something that I would be intimidated by or afraid of. I'll fight an English guy in England. I'll fight an Irish guy in Ireland. But this is an Andiogo.

With all due respect, Andiogo, this is Andy Ogle in Manchester. This is a guy who's like their national hero. I mean, that could be, really, that could be like the co-main event. That could be the main event in Ireland, and it would sell out. Again, this would be my 40th, or, like, that would be my 41st mixed martial arts. It wouldn't intimidate me in the least. You know, I would jump at the opportunity to do something like that. You know, I'm not really scared of that kind of something of that kind of magnitude.

You mentioned the weight cut. On Friday, and correct me from wrong, it didn't seem like you were in very good shape. I mean, your face was very, you know, sunken in. Even when Dana White, you know, asked to shake your hand or, you know, extended his hand, it just seemed like you weren't quite there. Is it accurate to say that that was a very bad wake? cutting. If so, why? Yeah, I had an extremely hard weight cut.

I think that I had everything down the past few times I was cutting weight. I had a great, I had a really solid cut for Nantam, but for Bart Pajoskian and for Manigaburi, and I had phenomenal weight cuts. But, you know, unfortunately, I got sick. I guess it was Tuesday or Wednesday. I guess that would have been about nine or ten days before the belt in Manchester. I got really sick. So how tough was it?

I mean, how much weight did you have to cut in 24 hours before? How much were you struggling? That making the weight was one of the most impressive things that I have ever done in my mixed martial arts career. Wow. I felt that I was probably close to death or organ failure or some sort of serious. thing. Really? That bad.

So, I mean, in hindsight, you won, but was it, was it not smart for you to fight? No, definitely not. Definitely not smart for me to have fought that. But that's my profession. I don't ask anybody to feel sorry for me. And, you know, I always say that, you know, in life that we're judged by two things, by other people and by ourselves. And that's what we've done and what we should have done.

And, you know, so basically that just means that all we have is our actions. And I'm not going to sit back and think later on that, you know, I should have done this or should have done that. I signed a contract meaning, you know, I should make the wait. So I made the weight despite, you know, the hardships that I was enduring and going through. And then, you know, even if that did happen, I should fight and I should come out with the win. And so I tried my test. Even though I didn't feel like I performed my best, you know, I went in there. And I did the best that I could.

And leading up to that point, while you were cutting weight, anyone around you, your teammates, coaches, did they tell you that they don't think you should fight? You know, considering the shape that you were in and you say you were close to death, I mean, that's serious stuff. I thought I thought I was, you know, I was really close to some sort of serious thing, I think. And they didn't say anything to me, but I definitely saw it in everybody's eyes. They were watching me very closely. And why 145? I mean, I thought that you looked great at 155. Why do you feel like 145 is best for you? I think at 155 with some of the guys at that size and that weight, I was just, you know, I wasn't strong. You know, in the clench, you know, in the body lock with guys having me up against defense.

And unfortunately, I feel like that's where a majority of mixed martial arts is fought these days. So if I felt extremely weak there, I was contemplating fighting at 145 pounds, which is where I fought my entire career until I won the ultimate fighter. A lot of people don't know that, but I had never fought at 155 until the ultimate fighter show. You know, I just wanted to jump at that opportunity at, you know, fighting in the UFC. But before that, my dream was to be shoot a world champ. You know, that was the extent of, you know, what someone could accomplish at 145 pounds. And that was really all I wanted to do is my life and career. And then when I had the opportunity up on the ultimate fighter at 155 pounds, I was like, oh, okay, I'll use it.

I'll do this so I can fight in the UFC. But, you know, I started winning some fights. And I was like, all right, well, I'll make 155 pounds my own. But, you know, just training with 155 pounds on a daily basis, you know, the weight that they walk at, that's not my weight. You know, I simply just wasn't a 155er. And so, you know, after enduring that for a couple of years from the bouts that I had,

and I realized where it was, I was weak, I thought it would be much easier to just move down to 145 pounds and make that a strength. It's so amazing to hear you say that it shows how much the sport has evolved and even how long you've been in the sports say that you wanted to be the Shuto 145-pound champion, not even WEC.

And to think that now, you know, someone could be a 125-pound champion, someone could be a women's champion in the UFC. That's an amazing quote. So to me, the highlight, you know, one of the highlights was obviously the interview, but from a sport perspective, the sweep to the arm bar was, you know, something that you can watch a thousand times and just be in awe of it. I mean, that's one of the true, I mean, that's something that you could put on

an MMA highlight reel and just being awe of it every single time you watch it. Can you explain to us in words how you pulled that off? Yeah, you know, I don't mean to too much. own horn, but when I do seminars, I show the sweep all the time. And this is something that I do in training, not just the sweep, but that sweep and then into that same exact arm bar transition. I call it the clown sweep because when you do it, you're clowning somebody. You know, but... It's like a posterized.

Right. So when you just, you know, control the grips on somebody like that and they are throwing their hips into your guard, that's a common position that you get into. especially in mixed martial arts, some guys are pressing their hips forward like that and getting ready to unload some serious ground and pound either with their punches or their elbows. And like I always say, I'm a martial artist, not a fighter. I don't always try to get back up to the feet and do what the judges want to see. I try to just kind of go with the flow.

So just use their own momentum against them, and, you know, just watch them fall over your head. Unbelievable. It was amazing. Joe Rogan was fawning, as you can imagine. You know, you also, you made some, you made some, headlines going into the fight and as of late about sponsorship and, you know, and not being where it once was. How do you feel about it now?

Where do you stand with your sponsors? Well, with my sponsors, I feel great. I just feel that, you know, with a lot of the people that, you know, I was approaching or that my management was approaching and that I was communicating with, it was rather unprofessional. And if somebody tells me that this is all that they can offer me, Or, you know, like, let's say a company was like, oh, you know, since your fights on Facebook, all we can offer you is gear right now. There's no way for us to really figure out, you know, if we can achieve, you know, any sort of return of investment, blah, blah, blah.

Then I would go, okay, you know, thanks for your offer or no thank you. I'll get back to you in the future. But these people just go silent when they hear that, you know, your fight is on a Facebook pre-limp, and they don't want to communicate with my manager or call them back or email them. And this is still a small community, but, you know, the one thing that I try to always say about myself is I'm a professional, you know, and I'm respectful with the people that I communicate with inside this port because it's still, you know, a small niche community. If you know that, you know, how small in this community this really is. And you see these people all the time.

And, you know, so I always try to be professional with these people, the fighters, you know, the UFC staff, the media, and, you know, to have these people not call you back and do these things is really unprofessional. And since I, you know, said, you know, saying something about the sponsorships, so many fighters have come up to me and thanked me, you know, for bringing that into the media and to the attention. I know you're in Chicago. I know you're a fan of CM Punk, the best in the world, as am I. I'm wondering, did he inspire you to do that post-fight interview the way he speaks the way he drops pipe bombs and whatnot? Maybe he had some sort of influence, but it definitely wasn't direct.

I'm a huge pro-restling fan. I'm a huge DM-punk fan. You know, it was probably on my mind a little bit, but there was no particular interview that I was watching it to get ready or to get pumped up for that belt. It's great. It was like Andy Kaufman, you know, just running out there and hearing the booze in it. It was great, and it was something that I think kind of, I don't know, you may not agree, but I feel like it has sort of re-energized your careers.

As far as the way the fans are viewing you, like even now on my Twitter, there are some fans who want to see you get your ass kicked in your next fight. There are some fans who are saying they love what you're saying, but they care, and I think that's important at this point. Oh, good. I'm glad. It worked. It worked, my friend.

I hope you keep doing it. And, okay, so next up, you want to wait for Connor, you want to wait for him to get healthy and you want to fight him next? Is that the plan? I want to work as often as possible. So if I can fight, you know, before the end of the year or January, wait for him in March or April, whatever he wants to do, you know, I'll talk to the USC and figure this thing out and see if that's, you know, something they want to see or if the fans want to see. But, you know, I'm down to fight in Ireland.

And by the way, one last thing, because we talked about the judges of Manny Gabrian, where do you stand with, I know you protested that loss to Manny? Is that going to happen? it done? Oh, I already did my phone conference with them. They told me that they would notify me in writing of their official decision. I haven't been home to collect any sort of mail since I've been out of the country, so maybe they had let me know something already, but I'm not really sure. But I did notice on their agenda for things to bring up in their future meetings of the commission. They are bringing up several points that I made in my protest against Campos.

agree. And so it would be very interesting if they decide not to overrule the decision, but to make changes in their rulebook with all of the issues that I brought up with how things went down in Boston. I can see how that would definitely piss you off. But at least you got back on the winning track officially. I know you didn't consider that a loss, but officially in the record books, you're back on the winning track, made headlines afterwards a great night for you in Manchester. Congratulations on the win. Congratulations on what you did afterwards. I want to see that fight. So I would will try my best to push for it here. Always great to talk to you, Cole.

Enjoy the win afterwards. All right, there you all. Thanks very much for having me. There he is. Cole Miller stopping by. Great stuff out of him. Really enjoyed. If you didn't hear it, if you didn't see it, post-fight interview, you can figure it out from now. It was very short, just ripping on the Eurofighters,

ripping on Connor McGregor, walking off, and then Connor with a great tweet. That's great stuff. And it makes sense for both of them at this stage of their careers. It makes total sense to have that fight. can you imagine in Ireland? That would be amazing. It would be amazing.

Okay, let's move along. Speaking of amazing, not this past Saturday, Saturday night before UFC 166, candidate for fight of the year, Diego Sanchez versus Gilbert Melendez in Houston, Texas. And now we've got the dream on the line.

Diego Sanchez joining us right now in the MMA hour. Diego, how are you? Doing good, doing good. You got me? Can you hear me good? I can hear you perfectly, my friend. Okay, so what's it been like?

It's been nine days since the fight. you know, how many people are coming up to you, even though it was a loss officially, but for what you guys did inside that cage in Houston, how many people are coming up to you talking to you about the fight? Are you still kind of basking in all of it? You know, I'm just, I'm just living, and I just was enjoying the moment,

and, you know, I truly loved to fight. I really love it, and that's why I make those fights, because, you know, after I went through all these injuries, I kind of realized, all right, you know, look, I'm not going to be able to fight forever, So, you know, I got to just soak it all in. And every time I get attached to the canvas on my feet, you need to embrace it, leave it all in the cage and go for it.

And so, no, I'm just really, really embracing it, loving it. You know, it's nice. You know, the fans out here, the Novel Kirkke, especially, they really have my back, and they're just, they're just really excited that everybody's like, I've gotten more respect and more fan love from this loss than any of my victories in my career. Wow, really, that's an amazing thing to say because you've had some big wins. How are you feeling? I mean, that was a massive cut that you had above your eye.

Physically, how are you feeling? You know, I'm feeling just fine. Honestly, like, at 155, I just, I'm so big durable at that weight class. It's ridiculous. Like, you know, after all my experience at 185 and 170, I feel like when I fight at 155 now, that I've came into myself as a fighter that I just I feel indestructible I feel like they can't hurt me

at once it's the fire in and yeah the cut was a good cut and it was a clean elbow it was like it was just a very very clean sharp elbow right on the eye bone and so you know there was there was no space for that tissue to go and it's sliced right through it but uh anyway

yeah my cut through I just actually took my stitches out myself while I was waiting for you to call I was like I gotta take these things out what yourself Yeah, I could like, I'm like, I'm like, I hear a little faster than a normal person. I, I'd imagine, you know, with all the good nutrition and, and just, just being in the best shape of my life, I feel I heal a little faster than a normal person. So the doctor told me 10 days. I waited nine days and I got how to take them out.

I was like, you know, they were starting to itch and I was like, I got to get these things out. So I took them, I just took them out myself and clean you up real good. him and I had a great surgeon, let me tell you, he was awesome. He wasn't just some little doctor. He was a real life surgeon, and he gave me stitches on the inside. He gave me stitches from the outside, and I mean, he cleaned me up real good, and I expect to just heal up really well from this fight. As everybody's seen, you know, I had that nasty gas on that gash when I fought BPJPN at 107,

and everybody was like, oh, that cuts always going to open up, and oh yeah, that's the worst cut I ever seen, and like, now people look at me like, what happened at? You know how it's caught from that. Like, and so I know how to take really well good care of my cuts

and my lacerations. You know, obviously, you know, look at Martin Katman, I had seven cuts on my face or laugh, and I recover well from it and all my cuts heal, like, really good, and so I'm not worried about this cut. It's going to heal fast. And I'm going to, I'm going to

I want to get back into training and back into that octagon as soon as possible. Like I said, you know, I'm not getting any younger, so I want to capitalize on the time that I do have left in my career. And so, yeah, the cut's good. One thing, my thumb, my thumb's a little injured. I was cracking him with that right hook. And I don't know, like the first metacarpone, the first metacarpal in my thumb, it might be fractional. I'm going to go to the doctor tomorrow I get it checked out but

I'm pretty sure it feels like there might be a fracture there I'm hoping there's not of course but it feels like it might be fractured you know you told me after the fight and by the way I hope the thumb is not fractured and it feels better and I have to thank you for doing

that interview with us because that was one of the highlights of my career just being there next to you too and seeing how thankful you were to each other and how respectful it was just an amazing moment one that I'll never forget so I thank you for that. You told me you thought it should have been a draw. Do you still feel that way? Have you watched the fight? How do you score now?

You know what? I do. I do. I feel like, yeah, he got me with a good cut, and he was doing some good counter-striking, but I feel like I didn't get no points for any of my takedowns. You know, so be it, he got up pretty quick, but I took him

down, I took his back, I had a dominant positions. I don't feel like I got any points to that. And I was finding a lot of body kicks. I was trying, I knew how tough skill but Melendous was, and I was chopping on that tree. I was chopping on that tree, and I was just kept chopping at that tree, chopping at that tree, and eventually that tree was going to go down, and that's where I felt. I just felt like I kind of got screwed over, and in the doctor coming into check my cut.

Yeah, it was a bad cut. I understand, but with my style, every second is, like, pivotal and vital in my style. That's why I have such good conditioning. I push a high pace and I get guys tired. That's my style right there. That's the nightmare. That's what the nightmare is. When you're getting tired and I'm like, what the hell?

That guy just keeps coming and he keeps like, what this guy is eating? I don't know. He's crazy. And so, yeah, and if you notice, like, whenever he had to come check my gut, he was getting little breaks. And that was saying, expected me too because I felt like I was chopping at that tree and I felt like I was wearing him down. He came in, he came in excellent shape.

Gilbert Melendez is known for good conditioning too, but I felt like I was a fighter that was in better condition and was pushing the pace and coming forward. And I felt like I was I was working harder to get the W. And I thought it was closer. I thought it was closer than being around in a decision. I thought it was a drop, honestly, with me dropping him in the third round. because it was a clean drop. Like, you know, you can watch it on slow motion, and he's out on his feet. It is basically like a knockout, and he wakes back up.

He even said it. He's like, I blacked out. He's like, I don't remember. I blacked out because he was knocked out. He was knocked out on his seat. And, you know, he was dazed after that. And I give all the props to go over Melendez. He's an awesome warrior.

And I really truly feel that he's the number of, I feel he's the pound for pound at lightweight, the toughest guy, because he's durable, he has conditioning, there's good striking, and he has good wrestling, good jihitsu defense. The dude's one of the top guys. I feel he is the top guy, and I felt like I got in there with the top guy, and I showed more heart, and I pushed more, and I showed that, you know, I belong in the top of this division, and that, you know what, if it would have been five rounds, I had happened that tree. I hit that body in that third round. I had hit his body so many times and he was going down. I had him

going down and he was going down. Yeah, it would be fascinating to see what would have happened if the fight was a five-round fight. I know you would love to have had that happen. You know, so at end of the day, it's a loss and I think a lot of people will still, you know, talk about it for many years

and we'll love to see the rematch. But I've heard you mention the nightmare now a few times. Does that mean that the dream is no more? Should we now refer to you as Diego the Nightmare Sanchez? No, I, you know, it, you know, because in our reality, it's, it's the dream outside the cage, and when I get into that cage, you know, yeah, I'm going to, the nightmare's still going to be, but watch it was like, but it was like, gee, that was all nightmare. That was all nightmare. I was going crazy in the back afterwards, and, you know, the nightmare is still always going to be in there for my enemies, because that's what it's going to be. It's going to be a nightmare for them, and I'm going to be the nightmare for them. And so that's, that's, that's going to, that's going to be with me forever.

And everybody, you know, in the sport, and especially in the UFC with the company, they all feel like, you're still the nightmare. Like, you know, they're all telling me that all the time. But, yeah, no, the dream still, the dream still lives, and I will fulfill the dream, and the dream is to win the world title, to win the lightweight world title. And I'm not going to give up on that dream. Nobody could, I don't care if haters, naysayers, I'm not giving up on my dream. And I prove that I have the skills and I still have the fight and the heart in my tank to get out there and compete with the best and beat the best.

And I feel like, you know, Gilbert, he didn't, I lost the fight, but I was not a beat man. I was cut and I was still coming forward. And I was ready to keep going. I was ready to fight. I embraced that part of the fight. And when I get cut, it only makes me meaner. I get crazy when I get close. I love me.

It's an amazing thing to see. And usually after a fight like that, how it works is fighters kind of disappear for a little bit off social media and whatnot, and then they kind of reappear. But you were right at it afterwards, and you never really left. And your name has been brought up a lot. And you speak about the haters and whatnot. First, let's talk about Connor McGregor, and then we'll get to Melvin Galard. I want to play you something that Connor McGregor said about you last week, late last week in England, and then I want to get your response, okay?

Okay. Here we go. Here's Connor McGregor talking about Diego Sanchez. Diego Sanchez keep talking shit. So I'd like to, you know, and plus, it's an easy fight. I like easy money. It's my favorite. I'm too defensively intelligent.

I'm too smooth. I'm too, you know, he's not going to hit. I'll tell you right now he wouldn't hit me once. He wouldn't land one shot. And I'm in Gil made him miss and capitalized, but I'm a little bit more clinical. You know, he will hit air and hit the floor. You know, you can trust me on that. And plus, the guy's about two punches away from, you know what I'm, he's slurring his speech and all.

I'm worried about the guy. Before I fight him, I want to see his medical reports. I don't want to be the guy leaving him getting fed through a tube, wearing a nappy for the rest of his life. I mean, so. But like I said, it's easy money, and money's my favorite. Well, those are strong words from Connor McGregor. What's your response, Diego? There's a lot that he said there.

You know, this guy, this guy is just, I don't know, man. You know what? The guy's good for the sport. because he brings Ireland and those Ireland fans like they're diehard. Anybody that's Irish, they're like so diehard for this guy.

And, and it's cool. It's good for it. It branches out of our sport to another area of the world. And it's good for the company and the dude got the big mouth. And this all started, this all started when he put out a treat

that was like, like, just disrespecting all of the top 145ers in the world. And I was just like, this is, is ridiculous. Like, nobody's even going to, going to, like, talk back to him. You know, it's like, dude, put this dude in his, somebody got to put this dude in his

place because he's just, he's just a little mouth. And the crazy thing about it is he really believes his own height. And it's like, dude, I put out a tweet, I tell him, like, okay, notable victories. Who are they? Who are your notable victories? Okay, who are your notable fights? Um, okay. All right.

Who are these guys that beat you? You know, you got losses on your record. And you're acting like you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, like, dude, like, like, come on. Like, why do you think you're freaking Superman when you, when you ain't done it? You got to walk to walk before you could talk to talk. He didn't walk the walk.

He fought, like, like, two fights in UFC. Yep. And he's freaking champion? I think it's a bunch of crap. And for the guy who come and disrespect a guy like me, and I didn't disrespect him. I just told him how it was. I'm like, look, man, what have you done?

Like, you're going to talk shit about my friends. You're going to talk shit about guys like, you know, guys like all the guys. All the guys. All the guys. You're talking shit about Chad Menda. Chad Mendes will eat you 50 for lunch. Like, this guy will eat you for lunch. You have not proved that you could wrestle.

You have not have not proved. that you're legitimate on the ground? You have not proved that what are you going to do when you got a Diego Sanchez on top of you, ground and pounding you? You have not proved that you are equivalent to that situation? Come on.

It's like, it's a bunch of crap. The guy's a bunch of crap, really, honestly. And like, yeah, like, now the dude's coming off of an injury and he's like, I'm going to do, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-go. I'll fight you. I like easy money. I like easy money, money, money, money, money. Oh, money and my service.

Well, you know what? I don't fight for... I'm not about the money. I'm about being a warrior. I'm about getting in there and putting it down for my legacy for what I was born to do. I fight. I ain't a little punk about money. I'm humble when it comes fast up.

You know what? And this dude, he's going to get humbled. He's going to get humbled. And you know what? If our past crossed eventually, and that's what the matchmakers in the UFC really want to do. and if this guy actually I doubt that UFC would let that even happen

honestly because it's like come on you know if there's money in this guy he can he could bring a crowd to Ireland and somewhat Europe so yeah no they're gonna they're gonna give him nobody like me who's just going to destroy this guy

come on it doesn't make from a business standpoint of view and so like it's but the dude's eventually going to get it someone's going to get him. You know, Ricardo Lama's, I like to see Ricardo Lama's get on top of this guy

and put a real beating on him. You know, even my boy Cubs, any of the top guys at 145 are vicious. And this dude, Connor McGregor, he's good, and he's got a lot of talent,

but has he been in the worst? Has he been tested? Has he been pushed? Has he fought a guy who he hits with with his best shot and it doesn't do nothing to the guy and the guy just keeps coming forward? No. Has the guy fought a black belt jihitsu world champion level fighter?

No. Has the guy fought a Division I wrestler? No. So whatever this guy thinks he's super, man, he needs to get off his high horse and just be cool, be humble, man. And it's all good. He wants to be the bad guy. Let him be the bad guy because, you know what? he's going to deal with that for the rest of his career

and people are going to hate him for it and he can have all his Ireland and that's his Ireland and awesome and no disrespect to Ireland or the Irish people like they're awesome people and they really really have their people's backs. They have his back and I admire that I think it's awesome

I think that's cool that they're so hardcore for their people but it's like dude like just what are the facts And that's what I want to know. I want to know what are the facts. What's this dude's facts? And what about what about what he said about you and slurring your speech and stuff? The guy's taking pot shots.

He's taking pot shots. Like, we're not a professional. I'm a warrior. That's what I do. I'm a warrior. I'm a fighter. That's what I do. It's what I was born to do.

It's where I'm best at. You know, yeah, I can improve always in speech and try to get my go to speech classes and get my speech impediments down on and go to toastmasters and do this and do that and try to become analysts. But look, I'm not trying to be that guy on Fox Sports and analyst. I'm trying to be the guy putting down some of the best fights in UFC history. I'm trying to be the guy who's going to win that world title and shut everybody up and live the dream. That's my dream.

And so, you know, he could talk shit if he wants to talk shit, but he can go to a speech class and learn how to get an English accent or, or, an American accent or whatever the hell he wants to do, but he's just talking crap, and he's really irrelevant to me and my situation. If the UFC wants me to beat him up, I would do it for the UFC. I would do anything for the company. They know that I'm a company man. I've been with this company and this organization for nine years.

I fight. I never hold back in my fights, and if they want me to step in there and shut up a little pipsqueak like him, I would love to do it. But you're okay, right? I mean, there's nothing going on there with the speech and all that. Oh, I'm absolutely awesome. Okay. All right.

Just checking because when he brought that up, that started to get people talking, analyzing, and whatnot. And how about Melvin Galard? Did he used to drop you all the time in practice? Oh, my God. This guy, too. These guys want to run their mouths. And it's just, and you know what it is,

it's all because they want attention. You know, they see a guy. like me fighting my ass off in the cage, getting all the fans' attention because even in the loss, people talked more about me than Gilbert Melendos because it was my heart. It was my heart that made that fight great. If it wasn't for my heart and me coming forward and making and going for it, I fight wouldn't have been what it was. It was my heart that made that great. And these guys see that and they see the attention that I'm getting. And they're like, oh, let's try to like, I don't don't talk. They try to talk

away into the spotlight. But Melbourne Goward, no, you know, I was cool with him and Goulart until he said that. It's like, come on. You know, and maybe he was, maybe he was, he was, he was upset because whenever he fought Donald Ferone, like, in training

camp, like, the guy, here's the thing with Melvin, okay? Okay. A guy's an awesome athlete. He's really like, he's really good. He's really explosive. He's really fast, but the dude got a questionable chin. I'm telling

you, I think everybody in the gym drop him. I've dropped him two times with the straight left. And that's truth. I ain't even, I'm not even lying. The guy got a questionable chant. Joe Stevenson dropped him with a jab. I think

Joe goes on dropped him with a jab. The guy has a, he doesn't have an iron chin like me. And for him to say that he dropped me all time is a bunch of bullshit, because you could ask Michael John, you could ask Greg Jackson, you could ask anybody in the gym that is actually there, the coaches.

And they'll tell you, I don't, I don't, they're going to say, I don't remember the last time I saw Diego get dropped, but yeah, you know, I'll tell you who dropped me on. Ablon, he dropped me with a body drop, he and me with a liver kick. Yeah, that was like the hardest ever got kicked in my life. But, yeah, no, I don't get dropped very much.

You know, if it is something, it's usually something like a body kick like that or something, but anyway that's part of the sport but for him to say he drops me all the time that is the biggest untrue bullshit that I have ever heard in my life and

and I feel sorry for I feel really feel sorry for Melvin that he has to drop that low to bring himself up or try to bring himself up because it really makes him look stupid because he's lying and

it's just really stupid I feel sorry for him the guy I think the guy's lost, you know, because he can't find a camp. He's here. He's there. He's picking up his bags and moving from, from Albuquerque to Houston to Dallas to Denver to now top team. And the guy got a lot of talent, but I don't know if what would make him want to talk about me like that. So here's the thing.

Connor is 1-45er. He's out for a while. Melvin, I think that's a fight some people would want to see. He's fighting Ross Pearson again. When you do come back, when you're ready to come back, who does Diego Sanchez want to fight? Really, I just want to fight whoever Joe Silva really puts me up against because, you know, he's the one who really makes the decision

when it comes to that, matchmaking and stuff. But I like a fight with Nate Diaz. I really like that fight. I still would like to be the first one to beat both the Diaz brothers. I think that would be a good little something. add to my resume. Or maybe the winner of his fight because he has a fight

coming up against Gray Maynard, right? If they would put that together and... Or the loser. The winner or the loser. But preferably, of course, I would want the winner.

Sure. So we'll see, we'll see what they do. We'll see, we'll see what they do. There's that fight. Eventually I want to fight Gilbert Melendez again. That's the fight that I really want

the most. I want more rounds. I want to go at it again with him, and that's the fight that I really want the most. But, you know, obviously, I'm a man, and I know that I have to earn that fight. I have to work my way up and get back up there. Then there's also the loser of the title fight. So, you know, the loser of Pettis and the punk, you know, that might be a fight I might be interested in. I would like to fight

Khabib, I think that would be a great fight. That would be tremendous. Yeah, that's... Does he have a fight? He does not. He does not. He wants to fight February 1st in Newark, but no opponent yet. Hmm.

All right. That's, I like that fight. I think that would be a great fight. I think our styles match up really well, and the dude's undefeated, and I think I I think I really like that fight. That's one of the ones that I'm starting to, I've been giving it some thought, and I like the way our styles match up. The guy's a great wrestler, but I have really, really good take-down defense,

and I'm a good scrambler, so, you know, and if he was to take me down, it wouldn't be like, I move, like, I move. When I get taken down, I'm moving, I'm moving, I'm moving, I don't stop moving, and it would be a fun fight to test him and see what he's, see what he's all about, out and he's willing to get in there in exchange, I think, too. So that's a fight that I'm looking at him. Of course, I got to heal up. And we'll see, like I said, there's that fight.

There's so many good fights. There's so many good fights in the 155-pound division that I can't go wrong. I'm going to get a good fight. Diego, you never disappoint, my friend. In the cage, out of the cage, interviews, always a treat to talk to you. And I must say, I tried. I tried my hardest because I knew you were coming on. the show. I tried my hardest to get Daniel Bryan to come on to surprise you and talk about the whole

yes phenomenon, but still no luck. I actually think that right now what he's doing is gimmick infringement. At first it was cool, but the fact that he won't acknowledge you, the fact that he won't even come on a show and talk to you and won't return your calls or text, to me is insulting. And I think it's time that we actually take this up with the appropriate people because you started that. That's your thing. And now he's taking and stealing it and not respecting the people that got him to where he is today. That, that pisses me off, and it's disrespectful, and I don't think that you should stand for it. Well, thank you. Thank you, Ariel, for having my back, and we'll have to look into that. We might have to figure that situation out. But for now, you know, to all my fans

out there, I just, I love you guys, and I'm good. I'm a warrior. I'm healing up. I'm healthy, and I'm in the best place in my life right now, so just expect me to be back as soon as possible. I want to get in there and give you guys another good fight, and don't believe the counter-hike. It's just the hype. That's all it is. Thank you, Diego. Talk to you soon.

All right. Bye-bye. There he is. Diego Sanchez, one-of-a-kind. And that is true. I did try to get Daniel Bryan on the show. I tried many different avenues, and you can guess probably a couple of them,

and no luck. How about that? Okay, let's move along and welcome in. I'm excited about this one because it was controversial. Everyone was talking about it on Saturday, the Ross Pearson, Melvin Galard finish, and then right after the fact, they booked a rematch for March 8th in London. Well, no one knows about this whole situation better than our guest at this time.

He was the referee in the fight. He was right there. He made the call. He's one of the very best in the business. His name is Mark Goddard, and he joins us right now in the MMA hour. Mark, how are you? Hello, everyone. How are you in?

I'm doing great. So, as I've said, many times on this show, you know, we can disagree about a whole lot of things from the scoring system in M. MMA referees and whatnot, I still believe that MMA referees have the toughest job in sports because a lot of it is split second and refereeing in general split second calls. But I mean, there's a lot of judgment calls here or there. You're being scrutinized. You often don't have the help of replay whatnot, et cetera, et cetera. You know the drill. On Saturday, you had a very tough call to make. And it appears as though after even watching it a million times, we can't

even figure it out, but you probably made the right call. I want to talk to you about the call. I want to talk to you about how you came to that conclusion. 48 hours later, was it the right call, in your opinion, to end the fight when you did and rule that knee an illegal one by Melvin Galard? Absolutely. I'm 100% confident in the action of took, you know? I mean, even on the replays, you know, you could hear me because obviously, you know,

we're mic'd up, and you can hear me talk about the second knee. It wasn't the first knee that Melvin delivered. It was actually the second knee, and it was a second knee that opened up the cup. I saw it. I saw Ross his hand was, and when I say hand, I mean his palm, his entire hand. It wasn't, you know, what would be used to before with the fingertips and playing the game, as me and a couple of other rest will allude to. This was a deliberate action in terms of Ross making himself safe,

putting his forehand down on the mat. The knee came in, connected with the forehead. That's what caused the cut, and that's exactly what I saw, and that's why I stopped the fight at that time to deal with it. So you don't believe that Ross was trying to play around like other fighters have in the past. That was actually the position that he was in. Yes, I don't think of it. Look, if a fighter is in danger of being, they know what they're afforded to do.

If you want to be a damn fighter, be a damn fighter. You go down to one knee, put your hand flat. what I won't do, what I won't allow, and some fighters will testify, is if you're going to start playing the fingertip game, because that is playing the game. If you want to be afforded the protection of a downfighter, then become a downfighter. And quite clearly, to me, that's what Ross, that's what Ross Pearson did. When the first knee came in, he could see the danger of a repeated knee,

he put his hand flat on the knee, and unfortunately, as it was being entirely accidental, or Melvin didn't have time to see that and he didn't have time to react but I had to do what I had to do. So let's just say that just his fingertips were touching the mat. What would you have done at that point? Knees still hits, connects all that,

but it's not the full palm. You think he's playing the game because right now the rule is not illegal, right? They want to make it illegal, but it's not illegal. No, that's correct. It's not illegal. It was actually recently discussed in a recent ABC

meeting and convention. And what the wording was, what came out of the meeting was, they understand that it goes on, but the defining factor, the closing factor came, that it's up to the referee. So the referee's discretion to call

whether a fighter was playing the game or not. And it kind of goes back to what I was saying before. You know, it's difficult enough as a referee. And I understand, you know, I've been in the position of the fight, it's been in, I understand it too from that side. and it's clear to me when a fighter is playing the game. If he's looking at his opponent and he's playing the fingertip game,

he may put it down once, he lifts it back and he does it again. If he does that, I'll actually say to the fighter, I had a very recent episode in Cage Warriors, funnily enough, with a British fighter, but I will afford you all the protection you require and under the rules, if you do become a damn fighter. If you stay in that position and show me something that is a little bit left field of that, you're somewhere in the middle ground. Unfortunately, I can't protect you as we should.

So, okay, so right now it's not officially illegal, but you'd like to see becoming illegal, right? You know, I'm not too sure about it being committed. I think they've handled it quite well. I mean in terms of the rest discretion Look you could do that with it There's many rules that you could go into And try and dissect them further And this, that and you know

There's a lot of people You know I mean well where did we go with this If a fighter, you know, a down fighter And a lot of people again There's a bit of misconception People think it's a three point rule It's not a three point rule

I could be a down fighter with two points of them Anything other than the soles of my feet, I could have one foot in the air, one foot on the mat, and one palm flat on the mat. I'm still a down fighter. So there's a lot of misconception there. I don't think, you know, putting a bit of thought into it and trying to understand how we'd make that move illegal, I think we'll still come back to where we are at the moment. I think the referees' experience and the referee's discretion on seeing what the fighter is doing in front of him, I'm pretty happy. where that's at right now. Can you explain why the fight was ruled in no contest?

If Melvin threw the illegal shot, it lands, injures his opponent. Why isn't Ross Pearson the winner? Because it was very clear to me. I actually explained this to someone else prior. When Melvin threw, he actually threw two knees in quick succession as everyone saw. So it wasn't like a position where he'd knocked the fighter down and then followed it. he'd had time to adjust his position, he'd had time to think about what he was going to do next. It was very clear to me that Melvin delivered the two knees in quick succession,

and he didn't have time to assess or see the position of Ross Pearson. Ross his hand went down, the second knee connected, and I think it was only fair and only just on both parties to rule it in no contest. There was certainly no, in my mind, intention from Melvin there to file his opponent, to fail his opponent intentionally, and there was certainly no intention in my mind that Ross was playing the game. He was trying to be afforded the protection

of being a down fighter. Were you allowed to watch the replay? I'm allowed to watch the replay. Of course, you know, it's on the screen, the same thing, anyone else, but here's the point. I've already made my call. I've already made my decision,

and you'll see if you, again, you know, we're still marked up at this point. It may have been picked up. on the mic. I'm not sure on the broadcast, but you'll see me go outside the cage. I get a Mark Ratner and I tell him my decision. So Mark, I'm ruling at a no contest. I'm deeming that as an unintentional foul, and that's what I'm sticking to. That's what I'm going to do. I can watch it a million times afterwards, Ariel, but at that point, there's no going back for me. I've already made my call. I know what I saw, and I'm 100% comfortable with my decision.

I guess my question was, can you watch the replay and then make your call, or do you have to make your call on the spot? You know, it's this whole thing about video replays in M&A. Are they useful? Are they not? And sometimes I'm on the fence. You know, I think the obvious answer is yes, because, you know, there is things that we'll miss were human beings.

Sometimes something could happen on the blind side of us. We can't take the word of someone on the outside or someone from, from an opposing camp or the fighters' camp himself. So I think video replays do have their place in MMA, certainly when there's a lot at stake. But in this instance, as I say, I saw exactly what I saw. I already knew what the outcome was,

already knew by the motion of the fighter and the way that the fight was progressing, that it was an unintentional foul. I'd made my mind up. I'd made my mind up. And I was also, that's why I stopped the fight. I think there was confusion all around because when I stopped it,

I think Ross actually thought, he believed I was stopping it in terms of, you know, a TKO. I could see the confusion on his face. I think Melvin, I didn't see it at that point. I think he reeled off thinking that he'd won the fight. But you hear me quite quickly say, no, no, no, the fight's not over.

And then I call in the doctor because I saw the cut open up. I've made my call at that point. Went out to see Mark Ratna, and that's where we are. It seems like every event there's something controversial to talk about as far as judging, refereeing is concerned. It's obviously a tough job. What's it like for you?

I mean, after the fact, I know you're active on social media. You have all these people criticizing, weighing in, they don't really know what they're talking about. How do you handle that? It is what it is. Ariel, you know, referees in any sport, it's not just exclusive to combat sports. and certainly not MMA. Referees, by and large, that's the position you're in. You're under criticism.

You're under spot, you know, you're under the spotlight and you're under fire. You know, we're not, we're human beings at the end of the day. And we have to make split second calls, you know, in a heartbeat. But it's not for everyone. That's quite clear. You know, if you can't handle the pressure and you can't handle the realities of what it's like to be a referee on the biggest stage in the MMA world, I think that becomes apparent quite quickly.

You know, it does take a certain bit of getting used to, but, you know, I always keep saying to people, I'm big and ugly enough to understand and take it. It's part and parcel of what we do. A lot of people might not know this, but you have fought before. According to Sherdog, your record is 7, 6 and 1. Why get into MMA refereeing?

It's pretty much a thankless job. I mean, you can make a hundred, hundred great calls. You screw up once. You're the worst person in the world. Exactly right that is. But that's human nature, you know. And like I say, it's not exclusive to, you know, to mix martial arts. I think it's the same in any sport. Yeah, I mean, my journey into being a referee was, it was by accident almost. There was a show in the UK that I was due to fight on. I got injured. Couldn't fight. And they got let down by a referee.

And I was asked to step in last minute. I didn't really have time to say no. I didn't have time to think about it. I just went in there and the rest is history, as I say, you know, something that I took to. I had a lot of comfort from the fighters at the time as well. That's something I remember quite distinctly. You know, they seemed very comfortable because obviously they knew me from the circuit

and they knew my face as a fighter and it just seemed to fit. and I guess I was in the right place at the right time. Is this your full-time job? It's not, no. Contrary to popular belief, it's not my full-time job. You know, I'm quite like the separation. I'm sorry? What is?

I work in contracting day-to-day. Okay. Building services contracting. You know, I have a full-time job. And I quite like the separation, to be honest. You know, I mean, I love what I do. I mean, I've been involved in this sport from a very early age and, you know, a very early time in the UK. And I've been involved in many facets.

And like I said, you know, fortunately, you know, I love what I do. But also like that separation. I'm not sure that, you know, maybe the will come a day when being a referee could be a full-time role. But until then, I'm happy with the way things are at the moment. What do you think is the biggest issue plaguing MMA officiating right now? I mean, a lot of people lately have been talking about, you know, a lot of refs give out warnings, but they don't take away points. Like, you can cheat, you can hold a fence three, four times, you still don't get a point taken away, low blows, all that stuff. What's your take on what the biggest issue is right now, or what's not being called correctly as far as MMA officiating is concerned?

Yeah, I mean, that's a fair point, pardon, point, you know, about referees taking points and this, that, and you know, the, you know, the, you know, There's a lot of things that are under the spotlight. And I have to say, you know, I'm just saying it from a referees point of view, of course, people may not agree, but is there a problem with officials in mixed martial arts? Maybe. Is it as big as what people make out? Definitely not. I really don't think it is, you know.

And I just think, you know, after every major event, there always seems to be a talking point. But again, that goes back hand in hand to what we do. When I do a seminar for referees and judges, I can't have said the same. Judges are probably under fighting more. And I kind of say the same thing. You know, if you imagine that if we had a magic wand, then I could say, right, from this moment on,

every single person involved in MMA, whether he be a fan, a judge, etc., etc., we agree with every round scored in every fight and every decision. Can you imagine that? Because I can't. I think it would be a pretty boring world, you know? Right. But getting back to the point of, you know, you're going back to, you know,

taking points from fighters. You know, taking a point from a fighter is, it can be a fight-defining thing. And, of course, it's just, and, you know, there's reasoning for that. You know, I do take points from fighters. You know, eventually, if they're not listening to me, oh, they are breaking the rules, or they're doing something a little bit more flagrant. But again, I think, you know, if I tell a fighter to not do a certain thing, whether it be two or three times,

I just try and assess it as a whole, you know. I guess the point I'm trying to make is I have to be sure in my mind that what that fighter is doing is adversely affecting the outcome of that fight. And sometimes, you know, it doesn't seem to, but a lot of people will jump on the fact that it does. And particularly things like fenscrubs, you know, they're very inherent. if somebody clearly, you know, two hands and grabs the fence and alters, I had one recently in Brazil with the Leo Santos Patilino fight.

And again, I didn't take a point. And the reason I didn't take a point was it was the first time he actually committed a foul. It was the first time he grabbed the fence. He gained top position because of it. I stopped the fight. I stood them back up. I told him what he did.

and I negated the advantage that he got. So for me, that was enough at that point to leave it there. But someone gets, you know, hit below the equator. I mean, oftentimes we don't see a point taken away. And even if it happens a couple times, they separate them. I'm not saying it's anything you do, but I just want to get your expertise on this. I mean, it's like in another sport, you know, in pro football, or even in European football, you know, you go off sides, you're penalized for that.

How are you penalized for hitting someone under the, you know, below the belt? If anything, it will sometimes help you later on in the fight because the fighter, you know, gets rushed. He goes back in there. He's not 100%. And then often you see them lose. I mean, there's no other way but to take away a point to kind of equal things out, no? I can understand exactly what you'll say. I mean, I'll speak for myself here.

Sure. And, you know, I'm actually the low blow issue. If a fighter connects with it I mean, I'm trying to think in all the standards of fights I've been involved with I don't think I've ever deemed a low blow intentional

If something happens It's a low blow We'll stop the fight We'll deal with it Let the fight to recover it Et cetera I'll warn the fighter If it happens a second time

I will stop the fight There again And I'll say to the fighter I did it with Brian Stan And sorry it was Yeah Brian Stan versus Van der Le Silver It was the second time He done it

Now again everybody knows who Brian Stan is and how he fights. There's no way in God's earth does he do these things intentionally? But what actually said to him was, I put the idea then into the fighter's mind. I would say to him, look, please think about your technique. I can't tell him not to do something, but I try and plant the seed into his mind.

Look, you're throwing an inside leg kick twice and you've connected with a cup twice. Nothing's going to change. If you then done that a third time, I would have no option but to step in a... and take a point. So three times, three shots below the belt. Yeah.

Look, another point I make on low blows, people always, it's very easy to blame the fighter who threw the kick. But what happens when the fighter throws the kick and his opponent moves forward? He caused the blow to land on the cup, you know? Yeah. There's little things like that.

What a genuine, what a fan may see, what someone observing may see, see at the time. He will just see the fight to throw a kick and it lands in the cup. But the ref has to take in the peripheral sense as well. You know, we have to watch what his opponent's doing because if he moved forward at the exact same time as he threw the inside kick, he caused it to land, you know? There's many variables. And I just want to be sure that you know, particularly something like that, you know, if I'm going to take

a way of point, you know, for low blows, I have to be pretty sure that that fight is disregarding what I'm saying. He's disregarding his opponent. And, you know, it's not too often. We'll see that happen. It's a difficult one. And that is why I think you guys have the toughest job in sports. Final thing, Mark, and this has been great.

Thank you so much for stopping by. We know that, you know, oftentimes, like in England, you guys, you know, when you're working there, the UFC for a UFC event, they will regulate the shows. They don't necessarily want to, but it's all part of the evolution of the sport and whatnot. We also know that in the UK, They've set up something called Safe MMA where they're trying to get the government involved,

but for now this is kind of the regulatory body. How is that panning out thus far? And what's the difference when you're doing a local Cage Warriors' Bamma show as opposed to a UFC show? Do you notice differences in terms of how you're treated as a referee, the preparation, the organization, all that stuff? So it's kind of a two-parter here at Endoff. Yeah, I mean, obviously, you know, when the UFC comes to time, you know, Everybody knows that, inverted, commas, self-regulation. Obviously, on the smaller regional shows, it's exactly the same there.

It's self-regulation. We don't have athletic conditions. We don't have a recognized governing body in the United Kingdom for mixed martial arts. There has been some very positive movements in the past 12 months. Safe MMA was one that you picked on there. That was actually an initiative that I was involved with from its conception. And to me, any form of regulation for me as a former fighter and a referee, the first thing I ever want to start with is fighter safety.

And that's what Safe and NMA was. That was the concept. That was the idea behind it. It's not a regulatory buddy. That's something else that's happening outside of Safe NMA. What we wanted to do was get a baseline level marker for fighter safety. You said was. Why are you referring to it in the past tense?

Is it no longer around? What does I refer to in the past tense? You said that's what Safe MMA was as opposed to is. I beg your pardon. Very good. Very good. Well spotted. No, it's certainly not past tense.

Safe MMA is here. It's present and it's now. Okay. Safe MMA is. Okay, fair enough. Safe MMA is not a governing body. It is a benchmark we set up to try and ensure a minimum safety standard for competing fighters, blood tests, pre-fight medicals, post-fight medicals,

etc., upholding suspensions, all the things that governing bodies throughout other parts of the world and you guys understand with state athletic control, it's all the things that we were devoid of in the UK. That's what's safe and amaze and that's how it's operating at the moment. So we've got the three, at the time it was the three largest promotions together because My idea was, look, we can come up with this concept, we can come up with this idea, but unless we get the promotions on board from day one, we may find it very difficult to take it to market. And, you know, touch wood, that's how it happened, that's how it involved. The guys all got behind it.

They supported it, and that's how it was launched. Well, Mark, like I said, you had a tough call to make. I think you made the right call. I think some of your peers have come out, most notably Big John McCarthy. which, you know, I don't think you need his, you know, his voter confidence, but he's been around. He is a guy who's been doing this for many years. I saw him tweet recently that he agreed with your call. In my opinion, you're one of the very best in this game, regardless of Europe, North America, et cetera, et cetera.

So it's always great when you're out there officiating a fight. Keep it up. And thank you so much for stopping by. It's been great talking to you. I appreciate that. And thank you for having me. There he is. Mark Goddard's stopping by.

Tough call to make on Saturday night. But he did make the right call as a result. Ross Pearson, Melvin Galard, they will be fighting again, March 8th in London, that taking place at the O2 Arena. Okay, let us move along. We actually have one more guest to go. We didn't think we were going to have a guess. We thought we were going to end with Mark Goddard, but in the middle of this very show, King Mohal texted me and said he wanted to come on the show. And of course, we will give him that opportunity. We love talking to King Mo. King Mo, are you there? Man, you know I'm here, man. What's up?

Well, how are you? So, of course, you were on the show. just a couple of weeks ago, and then an hour or so ago, you texted me, you said, you wanted to come on. So honestly, you didn't say why, I didn't ask you why,

but I said, yes, sure. What do you want to say? Well, why are you on the show? Well, here's the thing, right? You know, I didn't get a chance

to listen to them. The black skinhead was on the show earlier. Try to fake the funk. So my boy, he hit me up on the text and was like, man,

he's trying to try to go win on, you try to say that he never said this, never said that. Well, I'm going to put it out there. 100, You get talked to M.A. Junkie. He was trying to bash me on Junkie.

He was Twitter thugging. He was Facebook thugging. Trying to say that he was knocked up by Jacob Noe and Seth Rethazelli. The dude's fake, man. You know what I'm saying? I think that when he came to me and said, I'm coming for you, nigger, in the sauna. I think that maybe when I put it out there, his skinhead, you know, colleagues, the ones that like the punk rock, not the racist skinheads,

but the punk rock skinheads probably got mad after trying to act like he's, you know, urban, you know what I'm saying? Because the way he is, he's fake, man. He tries to put off a good guy, but he's just like me. Except with his colleagues, the skinhead punk walkers, you know what I'm saying, he tries to act different. I got to say, you know me. Sure.

I keep 100. I keep 100, so I'm not going to lie about nothing. Yeah, and no one's calling you lie. He got, he was, he had to take a deep breath. He, it seemed like he got very emotional when I told him about that. He was so hurt that you. would say that he used that word. It really seemed to bother him.

And it made me question. I mean, I'm not calling you a liar, but it made me question, you know, what the real story is here. But you were saying, hey, I put it up my dad daddy. If you want, you can call my brother. My brother was a son. And my brother's like, my brother Bull was like, man, he doesn't sound right saying niggas.

Because he said, I'm coming for you, niggers. And I was like, I just brushed it off, like, whatever, whatever. And then we start talking about people at the gym at Rain. She had Rain's doing. But other than that, the thing. dude can't lie. I'll say, I'll pick down my dead daddy, and my whole family, on everything. That's what he said. He could try to stunting cap. But if you want, he'd call my brother up. He wasn't necessarily with me.

And the whole thing about, you know, being fake and all that. I mean, I must admit he came off pretty well in the interview. I mean, he really had very nice things to say. I mean, he said, he said this, you're arrogant, you're cocky, and you're a self-proclaimed king. And then he added a fourth one. He said he's been saying that all about you, you know, about you throughout this whole time, those three things. Now he's adding delusional, if memory serves me, correct, because of what you said.

Here's the thing, right. I never gave myself the name King Melma. My brother Cammy Barzini did. The wrestling coached the American top team just the fact that when I used to wrestle overseas, the crowd loved me, he said, you're the king of the crowd. I was like, cool. I wrote with that.

She said, go to Japan and say I'm a drug dealer because I said they want me to do. So I was like, I was a king to be, anybody can be king, we're all kings. And two, I'm arrogant and khaki. Nah, I'm a little bit arrogant and khaki, Because when it comes out to it, when we train hard and you're, it's time for the fight, you have to be arrogant and cocky.

You're not going in there saying, hey, I'm going to give them all. And no one's like that. No fighters like that. Fighters, when it's time to go and fight in the cage, you're arrogant and cocky. Self-centered because everything's around you. You train hard. You take time for yourself. Every team is built around you.

So for him to say that, that's cool. He's the same way. All fighters, we're all athletes that go out there to compete are all somewhat arrogant and cocky and self-centered. It's the truth. John Smith, I'll learn this from John Smith. John Smith said, Mo, if you want to be Olympic champion, he has to be cocky, arrogant, and self-centered. You have to make

sure you get what you need, get to be selfish. And John Smith did it. And he's a two-time Olympic champion, you know what I'm saying, four-time world champion. So I heard it from him. Kevin Jackson, that's how it goes. That's the truth. You can ask every athlete he'll tell you, that's how it is.

He also implied to me. At this point, he's just almost, he can't wait to get in there, fight you, and then just kind of end this talk, you know, once and for good. Of course, you're coming in there with revenge. You want to avenge that loss, but do you feel the same way? Are you looking forward to not having to talk about this guy? Or do you think if you win, you might have to fight him a third time? I don't know.

I don't care. You know, the thing is, the only reason why, I don't care. I don't care. I don't care to fight him to fight him ten times. Don't mean it's to me. The only reason why I started, the one reason why this came to where it was, because the deal was talking trash about me after, after one, saying that I was acting away towards

him where I wasn't. You know, when it came down to it, I was respectful towards him because Antonio McKee, I like Antonio. And Antonio will change with him, and I mean the name, and we were cool. We actually ate nachos. We got by him by him and we sat by each other, and we were talking. We were cool. So I had no reason to go off on him. But after he won, then he's trying

to say that I'm this and I'm not. When I'd never brought his name up until he started talking about me. You know what I'm saying? I don't think about that dude on a daily basis, but he went on Facebook. He cast Mike Cogan, because Mike Cogan was like, man, male's talking about, you can get knocked up, but no, and I'm overrated, this and that. That's what Mike Cogan told me.

And when I'm a junkie, and the junkie board's like, yeah, he's trying to go on, and you talk about you, too. So I'm seeing this, but he can go do research on all the interviews before we fight. I never said one thing about him negative. He could say, he says, I said, I was a broken man, and, you know, I'm old, and I'm being worn down and he's, he said about me, but when it came to what I said about him, I said nothing about it because he's an orthodox, and he has a quick, like an awkward style.

That's all I said about him, nothing else. I didn't say one bad thing about Emmanuel until now. The black skin is getting his ass whoop on the second. Mark my words. Since you reached out to us, King Moe, you know, we had him on the show, you reached out, brought you on, I thought it would be fair, and, you know, I said earlier that I was looking forward to this fight very much.

I am now looking forward to it all that much more. I, you know, love the passion. We have a manual on the phone right now. Is there anything you guys want to say to each other, other. He's on the phone right now. He just responded to Manuel to what you said earlier. King Moe, is there anything you want to say to him? No, you tell me. Hey, Mayor, Kimmer Hunter, the sauna, man. Go, come on. No, no, you're right, Mom. You're right, Mom.

You're right, Mom. You're right. I apologize. I apologize because Jesse was in there with us, and I kind of thought, I mean, I said it more to joking me away, brother. I didn't say to it any disrespect away. No, no, but you're right. It's not bad thing you said. It's not bad thing you said. It's cool. Not the same. You said it's going to come up for me. That's all. No, no. You didn't. No, no. You did. You did. No, no, no, you're right. I did say that. I did say, I'm coming for you. But it wasn't like, I didn't, like, recollect it because it wasn't in, like, you know, it wasn't like a mean way. I'm coming for you.

What's up, you know? So, Mo, you know, I've always, I respect for you. I've never told Cogan that you were, that you were overrated. I think you're an amazing fighter, brother. I think, you know, your resting is top of your hands or your, your, your, the way, your style, you know, I think, you know, like, you know, like, freaking, I'm ready for a good fight, brother. I never, I never said that you're overrated.

I never had that said anything bad about you. If anything, Cogan was the one, your manager was the one that came up to Antonio and said, oh, you want the white handkerchief an hour later for your man with tears after Moops his ass. And I was just like, wow, you know, Cogan wasn't running talking shit. And I'd never, I'd never say anything bad about you, brother. You know, we'd chill in the airport, you know, before when we were going to the summit in Florida, you know, we had our nachos, you know, we did our things. I have no disrespect for you, brother.

You know, just like when Leota and Mark fought the other day, you know, and then we ought to put Mark down, you know, and after, you know, it was no disrespect. It was all respectful. I feel the same way about you, brother, you know, for him, we're both, we're both. We're both black men. You know, we both have gone through the struggle. You know, like, I know you've had your struggle. I've had my struggle.

You know, and there's no disrespect coming into this fight, brother. You know, you know, it's just all business, and you know that. So, I mean, and then you, I'm not a black skinhead. You know, I've never, I've never talked about you. I don't talk about any of my opponents, you know. I have nothing bad to say, man. I think you are. I think you are cocky.

I mean, but that's just your personality, you know. Like, I'm a very passive individual, you know. I am a very passive man. I'm the kind of guy that walk away from a problem. I mean, you're the kind of guy that's like, what's up? You can get into problems face, you know what I mean? It's just, we're just different personalities, but I have nothing against you, Mo. And when we get down on Saturday, it's all going to be business.

I don't want it to be any animosity at the way end. I don't want it to be any animosity when we go in the ring, you know. I mean, obviously, you know, when we try to take you to his head off, you know, but not in the bad way. It's all business, brother. I have no disrespect for you for you. I have nothing but good feelings for you, bro, and I wish you the best of luck on Saturday night, you know? What do you say to that, King Moe?

I don't know, man. Really, it don't matter. like this, to me, it's definitely going down November 2nd. And I'm going to take my words back. You're a black skinhead, though. Skinheads the muffler is like a pump rocket hardcore. You're a black skinhead. So I'm going to take me what I said back.

Definitely November 2nd, definitely going down. Y'all tune in the Spike TV and watch this amazing fight. All right. I'm down with it. I'm down with it. I'm down with it. Let's do it. All right.

We'll leave it at that. Thanks so much, guys. We appreciate you stopping by. Can't wait for the fight on Saturday. I'm sure. Take care. Bye. Thanks, Mo.

Damn. That was intense. All right. Saturday night on Spike TV, 9 p.m. King Moe Emmanuel Newton. Tell me you're not more interested in that fight. New York, Rick, say something. Very interested in that fight.

What the heck was that? That was intense. That was wild. He can't even say anything. He's just nodding his head. That's all you got. That was insane. Well, you know, I got to say,

what's up? I gotta say a few things. King Moe came on and he called him out and props to Newton for actually saying, you know what? It actually did happen. Because when he said it, when I said it to him, it seemed like he really got emotional. Like he was really upset about that. But he actually did say it. Yeah. So props him for admitting that. Also props to King Mo for not, you know, because then I, what happens in those situations, like I take it back, you'd be like, like, oh, I take it back. King Mo didn't take back his skinhead comment. He's like, no, screw that. This fight has some real animosity, some real heat. I'm, I was excited about this fight regardless because, you know, the first one was set up for King Mo to like kind of walk over him and and he didn't. And now, you know, we're going to get to see a rematch. And I think that was exciting enough, but, you know, there seems to be some real actual tension between them. gosh, I mean, think about this.

And now this is a good segue into, you know, what I've been saying on this show for quite some time. It was the worst of ideas to make this show a pay-per-view from the beginning, even with Tito and Rampage. With Tito and Rampage, it could have gotten over $2 million. Imagine if you have a fight like this with genuine hatred, genuine beef, whatever discomfort, Eddie and Michael Chandler at the top,

Pat Curran, who many can see, considered to be a top 10 featherweight against Strauss, a rematch. You got these great fights. This is the best card in Belator's history, and they were putting it on paper view where they would not have gone over 10,000 views or buys, in my opinion. Now, it's free. It's for the public. I am genuinely excited for Saturday night. Like, this is great. This is great stuff. Titles are on the line. There's issues there. The fights make sense. It was a blessing in disguise. Do you not agree? I do agree. That said, I would have been, I personally would have been watching anyway. But I do agree that this card being presented for free is a much better opportunity than...

Some of the comments. Go ahead. Sorry. I'm not laughing at you. I'm laughing. It's the comments of my Twitter. Okay. I lost my train of thought. Oh, yeah. It being free... It was like $50. Yeah. It's a better... It's a better opportunity. For sure. If it would have been Rampage Tito in the main event, they could have gotten, in my opinion, like comparable to what some of the UFC's heyday would have gotten. And that's what I understand.

Spike is a TV company. That's what they do. They put on TV shows. They don't put on pay-per-views. The ICOM doesn't put on pay-per-views. So what was the point? I never understood it from the jump, but, I mean, I think that, you know, they stumbled into something good and that's fine. Who do you want to see Rampage fight? Does anyone ask me about this?

Probably at some point. There's not a lot of options. You know what I think should happen? What do you think? Atila Vague. This is the perfect way to make him fight for the belt and skip the entire tournament. And then he fights the winner of Mo versus Newton. There's a story there with obviously King Mo. If Newton wins, great. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I don't read the tweets or something.

People are G-chatting me. I can't, I can't. It's just inappropriate. Yeah. That's it. That's all you're going to weigh in on? You're really like throwing me off here. You got to take the punches and keep going.

This is me just trying to mess with you. This is, imagine you were like a professional broadcaster, which you are to a degree here, but you know what I'm saying with a producer like talking in your ear. You have to ignore what's going on around you. You have to say your point and keep your head moving.

Yeah. Someone wrote to me, I won't say who. If you could only see my computer, someone wrote to me, I won't say who. I too. I too try to get past the radio.

I get to it. Okay, let's move. Hey, are you going to? going to weigh in on this fight card because this is actually the best fight card that you can actually bet? The Bellator? Yeah. Yeah. I, uh, are there lines for this? I think there's a few out. The main event, let's be honest, most of the cards, we actually think that they're very one-sided. But the main event, I mean, tell me, there, there aren't 10 people in the world where you can find 10 people consecutively who think one guy's going to win that fight.

Michael Chandler's a decent favorite. He is? He's minus 2.25. That was very high-pitched. Oh, that's not that big. And I thought you meant like... Well, that's over 2 to 1. That's decent. Nah, I could see that. Alvarez is plus 185. And then King Moe in the rematch is minus 600 to Newton plus 400.

Wow. That's... I'm trying to remember what the last one was. Let me see. I think I can look that up. You can? Yeah, yeah. What do you think about Eddie?

The last one closed. Newton was plus 484. and King Moe was minus 850. So it's not even that far off from the last one. Wow, so they're completely throwing out the first fight. It's like it never happened. Yeah, I think that's how the line opened. No, a little bit different.

But the public and the people setting the odds seemed to think it was kind of fluky. What about Kern and Strauss? No line for that one. Really? That's interesting. Not yet. I'm sure Kern will be the favorite.

Who are you picking in the Alvarez? his fight? Or I should say Chandler. You are? Finish? I think so. I think that right now Chandler is a top 10 lightweight in the world. Of course. You actually had to contemplate that? Yeah, because we aren't seeing him against UFC caliber guys. But it's like a Gilbert Melendez situation. And Gilbert probably fought better competition with the Josh Thompson's of the world, but you see it there. undoubtedly. But I'm thinking he might get the finish.

Right now, he looks almost unbeatable. So I'd like to see him get a stoppage. But, I mean, it wouldn't surprise me. I always say this. I say this every time when I'm kind of sitting on the fence. But it wouldn't surprise me to see Alvarez win, but I think that right now Chandler has to be the favorite, for sure. And he is in the betting lines.

No other fights, right? Not like the... No, those are the only two lines that are out. Can we talk about Saturday for a second? Mom and O's when five and one. That's two straight events. How about we do the fan calls first and then we'll jump into that. Oh, I forgot there was a caller.

We got two callers. Oh, we do. Yep. Oh, we got a caller in Denmark. Should have told me this earlier. Guys been waiting on me? I did tell you this earlier. Well, I mean, while we're talking here.

You could have interrupted my... Your giggle fit? Yes. Morton in Denmark on line one. How are you, my friend? How do you say hello in Danish? Yes. You say hi in Danish. Hi, okay. I think I could get that one. Don't worry about putting me on hold for that long. It's all right. I know you like to go on a ramp, so. Yes, I do. How are you, Morton? What's up?

I'm good, man. I'm just sitting here, calm Monday evening, or actually not so calm. There's a storm going on in Denmark and like lots of stuff flying around. Oh, no. It's calmed down for a while now, at least. Man, is there anything better than, you know, hunkering down in your house, apartment, wherever, during a storm on a Monday night, end of the first day of the week, listening to this show? Anything better than that? Probably not, right? Not anything that I can think of now. Well, I'm happy to hear it.

What's on... I'm the only guy in the house that's nerdy enough to listen to him. Nerdy enough. So I'm sitting in my room alone. Nerdy enough. Yeah, I don't know. I don't think that's anything wrong with being a nerd or at least a pet. about M.A.

Of course. I mean, hey, those other people in your house, they miss that epic exchange between King Moe and Emmanuel Newton. They can't talk about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, and Diego Sanchez, come on, man.

That dude is just crazy. This might be one of my favorite shows ever. He's just so far out of everything he says, you know. So what's on your mind? Yeah, I actually had two questions for you. The first one is about But we have a few guys from Denmark already fighting in the international scene. We have Martin Camden, of course, in the UFC and Michael Parlo now in the final of the middleweight tournament in Belvoir.

Yes. We have this other guy. His name is Nicholas Delby. He had a fight a couple of weeks ago, first round knockout. He's 11 and 0 now, I think with six finishes or so. He's like this really calm guy who lets his... is fights through the talking, you know, not like the Conner McGregor type. Yes, yes.

So my question, I guess, is just what would your advice be for maybe someone like me as a fan or even as him as a fighter to get Dana White's or Joe Silver's attention? I mean, they're coming to Europe for like so many times during the next year, they already said. So someone like you, man, you must have some advice you can give to get their attention. Well, I'm sure. I'm sure they have managers, right? Yeah, yeah, definitely. If he has a good manager...

It's only turned down a contract from Belltor as far as I know. Okay, well, yeah, so if he has a manager... That means that they want to make it, you know, and get in the UFC. If he has a manager, I'm assuming that he has Joe Silva's email address. I'm not going to say it here publicly, but I'm assuming that he has a way of contact. But that's the guy to contact. That's the guy to contact. below 155, then you have to contact Sean Shelby.

But they tell me, like, those guys are unbelievable. They have all these documents and everything. They put all their future, like, because this is the thing. It's such a fascinating job. If a guy gets injured, they have to be able to tap into a database of sorts. And it's not the most, it's not the craziest database. But they have to go and say, okay, who's available, who's reached out to me, who's a prospect, who do I, you know, view highly and things like that nature.

So they go into that. and they have all these emails, all these files. He told me one time that he used, you know, back in the day, he had all these tapes in his office, but now he just has YouTube clips and things of that nature. So I'm guessing that they have contacted him, and that's the way to go. I mean, other than that, Dana, you know,

you can tweet him all you want, but Joe Silva and Sean Shelby are the ones that are going to make those signings. Yeah, definitely. Has there ever been a Danish... Has there ever been a Danish... Sure, but has there ever been a Danish fighter in the UFC? Yeah, Martin Kampman, of course.

Oh, my Lord. This is what happens. Come on, man. Oh, my gosh. After three hours of doing the show, my mind, I feel like I've taken like a hundred shots to the head. So yes, of course. Martin Kampman.

Well, how's he treated over there? How's he viewed? How's he viewed? Do people get excited for his fights? Does he get treated like a big star? Not at all, man. He doesn't get, have the recognition he deserves, that's for sure. he was on the front page of, what was it, one of the three newspapers in the city

when he got knocked out by Johnny Hendricks, but I think that was probably the only time he's ever been. But, of course, that was a contender fight as well, so it was kind of an important fight, but not really anyone I know, unless I've told them about him, knows who he is. Of course, there's an amazing that knows, but that's not really the kind of guys that I, yeah. Yeah. All right, what's your second question? This one is actually both for you and Rick

and even for all the guys in the back I wanted to know how you guys react when you see one of those holy S moments you know in the UFC something unbelievable happening in front of your eyes are you like one of the guys who just sit completely in disbelief or do you just jump out of the couch and start shouting at the television

I just want to know how you guys react when you see something like that? Well, I'll answer first only because there are different times. You know, like sometimes I'm in the arena, sometimes I'm backstage, sometimes I'm home. I mean, there are different moments and different scenarios, different environments. So like when I'm in the arena, I was in the arena when Chris Wyman knocked out Anderson Silva. You've got to be composed. You're, you know, in the public eye.

You can't be, you know, jumping around, high-fiving people. When I'm backstage, just watching with, you know, the crew and we usually watch on a monitor that's, you know, that big, very small. You know, there's a lot of like, holy shitballs, wow, oh my God. And you're like, what? Wow. Wow. Like, you'll say, wow.

And I'll say that a lot of times. I'm a big wow guy. When I'm home, it's a little different. Like, I remember when Matt, Sarah knocked out GSP, I'll never forget this. And I was just a fan at that point. I just was, I was frozen. Literally, I was frozen until after the pay-per-view was over. and it was just like this thing on the screen that said,

thank you for ordering from the pay-per-view provider. I was just frozen. I couldn't move. But now when I'm like when Machita knocks out at Munoz, I'm like, wow, wow, wow. But, you know, I'm still always in that kind of journalist mode, so I don't go too crazy. I don't have favorites.

I don't high-five people. It's just when you see something spectacular, human nature is to just, you know, react to it. But I, you know, I'm not a robot, so I still have those fan instincts. but I always try to keep it together. One guy who I know who doesn't keep it together is Mr. New York Rick. The guy gets rattled just when I laugh. So how do you react, Mr. Rick, when...

I react kind of like Joe Silva. Oh, yes. I'm kind of like living on the edge of that moment, and then when it happens, I'm just like exploding with whatever emotion I feel as appropriate at that time. I'll jump out of my seat, I'll be like... And something crazy. But yeah, I'm not one of those people who tries to like keep reserved or anything like that. I like to let my emotions go when I'm seeing something like that.

Middle Easy did a great post with Joe Silver's reactions to fights, like top ten reactions. It's amazing. Okay, so then my follow-up is, how do you react? I'm assuming you're a crazy type. Like, you stand on your couch, you make backflips, things like that, right? Well, the Jones got to swim by it. I definitely did.

I mean, I was shadow boxing in my living room. That was crazy, man. In the Scandinavian, I mean, that was. I thought he won the fight as well, you know, but that was, even just thinking about it now, it just gets me pumped, you know. Sure, sure. But it's like a few ones. I mean, the Frank Yedga knocking out Grey Maynard in the third fight, I mean.

And I also think about Frank Meir when he reversed Noggera and broke his arm. And sometimes, you know, I watch these shows at 5 in the morning, and I live in an apartment building. I have to wake some people up when I'm shouting like this. and I can't help myself, man. I love that. I love the idea of people all over the world and different time zones going nuts,

the holy shit moments, like Emmanuel Newton spinning backfisting King, yeah, yeah, yeah. Moments like that, you're like, wow. I had to watch a replay that one, though. Oh, but yeah. That was nuts. Anyway, man, we got to go.

I appreciate the call very much. Thank you so much for waiting and being patient and keep supporting those Danish fighters. That's great. I love that. I will, man. And it's an awesome show. You just keep doing a great job as well and not keep listening. Okay. Thank you so much. That means a lot to me. We appreciate it. That is a morning in Denmark stopping by.

Okay, we have one more caller. It's Patrick in Houston who, last week, stopped by to sing the praises of one will the thrill and then disappeared on us. I'm assuming he has returned to talk about Andrew Craig. Is that true? Patrick. How you doing? Hey, how you doing? Yes, sir. How are you doing? You're back. Can you hear me? I can hear you.

Oh, cool. Yes. What do you have to say? Sorry, for some reason my phone died or, I was like cut off, but it's a bad reception in this building, so I apologize for that. Okay. So where were we? Are we actually going to pick up this conversation from a week ago? You know, I tell you, in New York.

Rick, such a good producer, but call screen are not the best? What's on what's on your mind? No, I was just talking about once. I still want to talk about 166. I mean, how amazing. It was amazing. You know, the whole card was. And, you know,

that, for that, I worked backstage. I think that was your question to me. Oh, yes. Now I remember. So, I was talking you that the whole week, but anyway, yeah, I, They basically worked this side job that basically just kind of just helps out, basically,

with the lighting and the sound and basically putting up the kit of the octagon and everything. Oh, wow. Just a cool experience overall. Well, that is cool. I mean, I think we were there. So we were there to like five or six in the morning, you know, to undo everything, the whole show. So it was actually a great experience.

So. First time doing it? It was cool. Actually, I basically picked up picking shoes the show on. Oh, wow. And so I'm like, I basically got this job basically just for the UFC, basically. Just to do one UFC every two years? Well, that's why I told Dana.

I talked to Dana afterwards because, Dana, you have to come back to people. Oh, no, we're coming back. Just so I can keep this job. I guess I'll just. Yeah. But, yeah, I mean, it's, man, it was just, What's so cool being back there, the way ends, and just seeing all the guys. You know, you see everything on TV, you know, you hear a bottom, and I'm just a big fan.

I just love being back there, and, you know, and, man, it was just amazing. And to top it off, I was able to talk to you and get into the show, so that you make it even special. Well, I appreciate it. And Will, do you want to say anything to your number one fan? Hey, I just, you know what? what's my, I guess my whole thing about that, was that, hey, you know, when you're at a different city, you need to bring the guys down.

I should do a live show from Houston or live show from different, you know, different cities. I would love to do that. We've thrown around that idea. Oh, I think he's coming. Here he is. Houston's own. Hey, thanks for calling him, but also Ariel.

Yeah, what's, I mean, you go to all these shows, we don't get airfare? What's the deal with that? Well, we could talk to Buzzkill about that. He's usually the one that puts, Kaibosh. I feel like you sound pretty good every show. That's true.

Except for the shows from the stream. Thanks once, I believe. Thanks once, really. By the way, how did we pronounce your last name, Will? I've been meaning to ask you that. Really, it's just B, and then it sounds like you're throwing up behind it. But it's Bukama, or if you're actually in Holland, it's Balcoma. Oh, really?

Yep. I didn't know you were Dutch. Yeah, a quarter Dutch. Wow. That's why you're such a big Over-Rame fan. Bingo. There we go. Oh, we learned.

Well, and because I went to middle school with him. By the way, did anyone ever tell you look exactly like Andrew Craig? Is that a Houston thing? Yeah, it's the water. Yeah. Are you upset that he lost? Yeah. Why not?

Did you watch it? No. You didn't. All right. I watched Beetlejuice. That's exactly why when the previous caller called, I didn't ask Alfred and Will, how they react to MMA fights. The most MMA action they've seen is the highlights that we air on this show. Although Alfred, back in the day, used to be a big pro wrestling fan.

I learned that recently. Anyway, my man, we got to go, we got to answer some questions, but I appreciate you calling back. Hey, I have one question. I have one question. Okay. Hey, what do you think, do you think Hector Limbar, how do you think he's going to do in that weight class?

170? I think this is, I think this is, I don't know about champ, but, I mean, that's one fight. I think this is the right weight class for him. He should have been in this weight class. long ago, different fighting in Belator's middleweight division as opposed to the UFC's middleweight division. He looks a lot better.

Still has his quickness, still has his punching power. I'm excited to see who they match him up against next. I mean, there are a lot of good options for him at 170. 170 is great. As is 185. Holy moly, 185 with Machita now, it's great. So I think he's going to do well. I don't know if he'll be a champion, but I think

he'll do well. I think he's like the modern-day Mike Tyson. I think the guy just has so much power, has the look, has the has everything. I mean, the packets. So he's a nice guy. He's a nice guy backstage also. He is. They're all nice guys. He's just, he's, I think, 170 is, and he looks good.

So I think he's going to, he's going to do some damage in that late, wait class to stay there. All right. Thank you, Patrick. Appreciate it. Call back anytime. I appreciate it, Ariel. I'll see you the next, I'll see you next time in Houston. Okay. H-town, baby. Represent. Thank you. So, oh, and New York Rick hangs up on him. How rude.

So anyway. Actually, that was Homeboy Will. That was Homeboy Will. Unbelievable. So my mom went five and one. She went four and one at UFC. Yep, she only lost out on Sakara.

Yeah, but Giyard is a no contest. Well, I mean, it's semantics at this point. That is? No. I feel like the difference between a win and a no contest is quite large. So what is it? Four and one? Yeah, what happens on that case is it just gets squashed, like, as if it didn't happen.

All right, so four and one, back-to-back shows. Yeah, good showing. Did any underdogs win on the main card? Yes. Oh, the Sakara fight? The Sakara fight. The Sakara fight. Sakara was a favorite.

I mean, a lot of times if it's a veteran versus a guy who, you know, hasn't shown anything in the UFC yet, the line will be like that. But it was actually relatively close, if I remember, correct me. Let me look it up. It closed with Sakara being a minus one. 175 favorite. And Mussoke was plus 165. Okay. Not huge.

So it wasn't a big favorite. But then the rest, Linneker was a favorite. Mm-hmm. Big. Machita was a favorite. Yep. I'm assuming Manuel was the favorite. Yep.

Ross Gellard never happened. And there's one more that happened. Park, Norman Park. Yes. Who's the favorite in that? Park was the favorite. All right. Well, still four and one.

Stop trying to discredit her. And she gets the weekend off. She gets the weekend off. Beltor, but this is your time to shine. I mean, are you going to do anything about this? This is the biggest card. I think there's going to be some bets for this one. It might be big, go big.

I mean, be cutting down. Do like a massive parlay, just for fun. But then the bad thing about the- Man, I wish Jason High was fighting. The bad thing about the parlay is that if you lose your first fight, I mean, it could be the biggest one of all-time. time you lose the first fight, then it's no fun. Correct.

Mini parlays. Anyway, let's answer some questions. Cool. Let me bring up the ones from the website. All right. What the? What's going? Oh, there they are.

That was in reference to your home. Oh, my singing. I mean, look, after the three hour mark, all bets are off. I will lose it. I mean, Martin Kampman. Yeah, that was bad. That was bad. That was bad.

You don't understand. Okay. You know, when I'm done with this show on a Monday, I am so hungry because I'm talking for so long. I mean, the amount of calories that I'm burning just sitting here. But also, my butt is really numb because I've just been sitting in a chair for like four hours. It's a very tough thing. I don't think people understand the sacrifice that I make every Monday doing this show. Yeah.

Will says when. But it is kind of tough. You're making kind of light of it. You're joking a little bit. But, I mean, sitting there. sitting there, but I love it. Okay, first question. UFC's middleweight division.

Yes. Since Leoto dropped down to 185, it seems like middleweight contenders are all Anderson Silva's friends or fighters he fought before. If Anderson wins on December 28th, what do you think will happen? There's a second part. On the other hand, who is next for the title

shot with a Widman win? My guess is Vitor, but I really want to see Jacqueray versus Wydeen too. Who wrote this? You? there are many different things here because if Anderson wins they might do a third fight right away maybe so that that that that that's one little you know caveat that you have to think about if Wyman wins he's not going to get a third fight and it seems like I mean when you think about it just just wins over Luke Rockhold coming into the UFC and Michael Bisping and then let's

just say he beats Dan Henderson because if he loses not getting the shot Vito Belfort would deserve it. Dana White really seems to like the Liotto Machita idea. And I like that idea. There's that issue there. If you remember, Vitor Belfort took the fight at UFC 152, wore a t-shirt in Portuguese that said, you know, essentially your son doesn't back away from a fight. And Liotto was bothered by that because he turned down the fight on short notice. There's an issue there. They want to fight each other. That fight would be massive in somewhere like Brazil. But I would feel like it's weird not giving Vitor the shot. So I think what you have to do is if Wydenman wins, you have to do Vitor Weidman.

And then Liotto versus Jacare is the next fight. Pretty simple, right? I like that. But then there's the other weird thing. Again, Liotto has to fight someone that he's friendly with. Jacaray has trained with, you know, the Black House team and whatnot. So I agree with that, but I don't think it's the same kind of thing that Anderson. And Jokorei have been saying, or Machita and Anderson have been saying,

I don't think they would not fight being Jokore and Machita. Okay. Even though you asked them? I mean, it's like the, yeah, I asked them. It's like the Munoz thing. Sure, sure, sure. As far as I understand. And look, after, I mean, other than fighting Anderson, I mean, he's very close with Munoz.

They're training together two days prior. If he took that fight, it's going to be hard to say, well, I don't want to fight. Jacare then. I mean, he already set the standard. So I'm just saying it would be another one of those weird fights. But can we just talk about Leonardo Machita for a second about A, how classy is, all his interviews. I mean, just hit that side of him, not

throwing that extra punch, his hair cut. I mean, the quaff that he was sporting with the gold chain at the weigh-ins. I mean, something about him at 185 just makes him seem almost angelic. He's very handsome. And the sportsmanship that he showed on, it was just, it was a really beautiful

thing. And then the dinner with the scarf, the randy couture scarf at the dinner. Afterwards, he paid for it. It was just very nice. What I'm seeing here is you're more interested in his fashion choices. No, the whole thing. The fighting. The whole thing. The whole thing was beautiful.

Machita is one of the very best in the world at 185 or 205. And his style presents problems that there's not really ever going to be a guy who just completely dominates him. Save for, you know, the Shogun knockout and the Jones choke. guys beat him by decision. He's very tough to make look bad. And the main thing about him is that he'll have one fight where people are like, oh, he's the most boring guy in the world, and then he does something like what he did on Saturday,

and you forget all about that. For a guy who everybody hates his style, he has quite an impressive highlight knockout reel. Yeah. I'm always a fan of Leota Machita. Also, Jacari. Shout out to the boy. Next question.

Lindaker and his future. If John Linneker hooks up with Dolce and gets his weight cutting problems under control, how far do you think he can go in the flyway division? And do you think he stands a chance against the likes of the amazingly tough Dodson and Mighty Mouse or should he have a couple more fights on weight to see where he stands?

No love for Benavitas. I think Benavides is up there as well. He's obviously very good. I was talking to someone. Oh, yeah. I think it was Alex Davis who I was talking to. These Brazilian fighters, I mean, especially someone like him,

obviously having trouble with the weight cut, and he's lucky that the UFC apparently is keeping him around. That's three missed weight cuts in five fights. That's unbelievable. He's very talented, very talented, great puncher, obviously, finisher at flyweight. It's all great things, but he needs to make that weight. And I think a fight against Dotson would make total sense next with the winner fighting for the belt. But the UFC can't trust him unless he's making weight. And, you know, one fight, let's say he makes weight in that fight, and then fights for the title next. I mean, the last time that happened was Travis Luter,

and that's a major black eye on the fight if the fight turns into a non-title fight. Because if the opponent misses weight, then the fight turns into a non-title fight. That's what happened at UFC 67 with Travis Luter and Anderson Silva. So if he's working with Dolce, if he moves to the U.S. and trains with the American top team, you start to feel a little more comfortable about the whole situation. I'd love to see him remain at 125 because he adds an interesting element to the division but if you can't make weight

I mean they have to assess it they have to do a test cut and see if they can do it properly and like I said earlier at this point it's Dolce's reputation on the line if Linnaker misses weight again he's already missed the weight three times but if he misses weight with Dolce it's more of a blow to Dolce and he knows that and he'll do everything you can to make him hit that

125 mark he'll make weight if Dolce is in his corner Oh, stop it with that. Shout out, Mike Dolje. Next question. Jimmy Manawa. After Saturday night, who is next for him?

I was thinking Fabio Maldonado, but I've also heard Tiago Silva mentioned. Who do you think we'd be... Excuse me, who do you think would be best for Jimmy next? That's a good question. Dana White wants to see him on pay-per-view. He deserves to be on pay-per-view. I asked his manager, Alex McMahon, about if he'd have any troubles fighting in the U.S. outside of England and anything like that

because of his previous criminal record, which he talked to us about many moons ago. He said no, so that's good to know. You know, I definitely think that Gustafsson, Nogera, makes total sense. I don't know if someone asked me about that, but if you haven't read Chuck Minnhal's article about this, which was posted on Sunday on MMA fighting,

he nails it better than I could have ever nailed it. And he used also the term Brillzillion, which was fantastic. But that's the fight for so many reasons. That's the only fight that they can make for Gus of Sin. the only fight that makes sense. And then I think Davis should fight Daniel Kormier next.

So now the question is, Jimmy Manoa, is he on that level? You know, maybe the winner of the Tehuna Shogun fight, something like that, makes sense. Tiago Silva makes sense? Maldonado, I guess he makes sense as well. Those are all good fights. I like those.

I mean, I don't think he's on the level of year, like the Gustavson. No, no, no, no. Daniel Cormier, Phil Davis, I don't think he's up there yet. No. A guy like Maldonado or Tiago Silva will be good. Yeah. Next question.

First, Euro champ. With the recent influx of talented European fighters, who do you think will be the first to wear UFC gold? Adlon Amagov, Connor McGregor, Gunner Nelson, or Jimmy Manoa. I keep contacting Gunner Nelson's father, who is also his manager about his whereabouts. You know, he had the knee injury and he's coming back and doesn't get back to me. Don't forget about Gustafson. He's in the mix there, right?

He was so close. I'd say go outside of just these guys, because, I mean, there's probably Normaga made off. There's plenty of guys outside of these ones. And also, it wouldn't be the first ever. Rolowski, Basruten, they've also been UFC champions. Do I have to pick one?

I have to go on the record right now. I'm going to sit. say Connor McGregor only because his division of the ones out there is the most shallow and he has a quicker rise to the title and then all bets are off when you make it to the title fight. So I'll say Connor McGregor. I'd probably be inclined to agree also because of the two division thing because he's comfortable fighting in two different divisions. He can move up and down and get multiple shots if it doesn't work out in one of the weight classes. Yeah, but Gustafsson has to be considered the frontrunner right now.

Sure. It's the closest to it. He almost did it already. Sure. Something he did. Next question. Oh, true. True enough.

Gustafson and Littlenod. What are your thoughts on having this fight in London and not Sweden? A lot of Swedes are pretty disappointed. We don't get to see Alex here. Kind of strange. It's one of those cases I think where the UFC has to plug a hole as opposed to booking around a fight. but you would think that if he was a star before fighting in Sweden, he'd be a gigantic megastar, you know, in this fight.

So kind of strange, but I'm assuming a lot of Swedish fans will come and support. And they said that they're going to go to Malmo, right? Malmo, Sweden, they're going to go there. I mean, I don't think that they're going to do the Jones fight there if they both win, of course. And it's so funny how they always say, like, oh, yeah, he's going to fight for the title next. You can fight John Jones. I mean, you do realize he has to get by, No, Garrier. and Joneses goodbye to Shera too.

But that's almost why, I mean, this is the reason why I think this fight makes all the sense in the world. It's a test, but it's not a Daniel Cormier-like test. And it's a fight you can get away with. He's coming off a win over Rashad Evans, Little Nog is. So it's just, it's a perfect fight. And Gustafsson should be favorite going into that fight. But yeah, I could see why you'd be pissed,

but it's just one of those things. Sometimes this happens in this day and age in the UFC. they have holes to fill and they want to put a big European star their first event of this this run in Europe, this six events stretch next year, you've got to put Gustafson in it.

You were mentioning Little Nag, beating Rashad and that's kind of like, you know, the trap that that Rashad faced. He was, you know, supposed to walk over Little Nag and be on his way to a title shot.

Yep. So Gustafson, you know, it's not, It's not a lock. It's not short. Yeah. And Rashad was in a different place, though, because he was coming back, thinking of retirement. He had just lost to John Jones. So a much different place. I mean, yes, it's a different kind of loss to John Jones, if you know what I'm saying. That was a demoralizing loss. Yeah. Gustafsson and his stock rose. But yeah, it's the exact same spot if you just look at it on paper. Here's our next question. Chale in Brazil. Chale's MMA resume should be enough to have anyone in the world wanting to learn from him. But of all the places, Brazil seems to be the last place. Besides the obvious,

is concerned for chale safety. Do you think there will be a struggle for chale to have anyone out of Brazil want to be on his team and willing to learn from him? No, but I do think that it should be Brazil versus the U.S. or Brazil versus the world. I don't think he'll have any security problems. I don't think anyone's going to try to kill him or anything crazy to him. But I think for the actual reality show, and we talked about this at length on the MMA beat, I think for the reality show, it has to be Chale with Team USA. I think that will make the emotions higher and the stakes higher and all that stuff. Chale coaching. Brazilians would be a lot of fun, though.

But how's it going to communicate with them? I think there are too many issues there from a production standpoint. So that's what I would do. I don't think there's going to be any issues. But it's fascinating. It certainly Trump's BJ and Frankie. It does. I mean, it's just fascinating. Chale living in Brazil is a reality show in itself.

That's fascinating in itself. Chale actually hanging out in Brazil is great television. It's going to be very interesting to see how they do this next year with both shows, one being a Brazilian show, when, you know, obviously the American flagship show, how they're not going to step on each other's toes.

It's going to be very interesting to see. I don't know. I have a sneaking suspicion that chale's not going to really be chale in the house. He's that guy who, you know, I'm here to coach. So I think that he's going to kind of be a reserved, you know, tamer chale. No way. And I don't think that it's going to be that interesting TV, honestly. No, no, no, no.

He, this is a showman. This is a guy who last week, out of nowhere, I was just thinking about this this morning. If there's one guy, it's like every week he's involved in another story. Like just, you know, he goes to England to coroner Luke Barnott, and he's doing a scrum. And he's like, yeah, I'm going to reach out to Anderson Silva to be an assistant coach. Of course, that's not going to happen.

He probably won't even reach out to him, honestly. But people eat it up, they love it. And he keeps himself in the news. He's a showman. He gets it. He's brilliant. Agreed. But that's chale.

That's Chale having a microphone in his face, and that's Chale's time. I think that he's very respectful and understanding of the fact that this show is to showcase the fighters. Although it showcases the coaches, I think that he's one of those guys who has a good sense of what he's there to accomplish, which is to teach the fighters. And I don't think he's going to be that same outspoken chale. That's just my suspicion. He could completely flip the script on what I'm thinking and be the chale that, you know, most people love the sound bite, uh, spitting chale. Um, but I don't think that that's what we're going to see in my opinion. He takes this whole coaching role very seriously. I get what

you're trying to say. But, uh, I think he recognizes the moment. But I mean, look, look at the John Jones series. That was supposed to be, you know, the most violent and these guys are, hate each other. And this one's a little different though. I agree. Yeah. But I also, that's, that's how I think chale's going to handle it. Well, look, we're talking about tough Brazil. Did we ever talk about the first two? Let's see. I mean, I'm going to watch no matter what. Did you watch the first two?

I did not watch the first two in tough results. No. Next question. Tito again, question mark. Did Bellator risk too much putting all their chips on Tito, who is very injury-prone, and should they have had a replacement ready for the scenario for either guy? I'm dying to see what either guy has left, even if it's not against each other. They should have had a replacement scenario, but I still think the right move was to

move to spike. But it's unfortunate that Rampage can't fight. I think he should have fought it till a vague. I mean, that's the fight. You clearly bypass the whole tournament nonsense. You get him a title fight, and he could be the champion, and then he fights the winner of Newton and Rampage. It only makes sense.

And that's what it should have happened, especially after Attila said that he was healthy enough to fight. So, you know, yes, they should have had a replacement. I agree with Dave Doyle. I don't think Tito should fight anymore. He's too banged up. That's the reason why he told us he was retiring. You're talking about neck injuries.

you've done enough in this sport, why even risk it at this point? Rampage claims to be in good shape and there aren't a ton of options out there at 205 firm in Belator. So you had a perfect outlet to then just bang, putting in the Tileve who's the light heavyweight champion,

how many people even know who he is. You make that fight, but you make it on Spike TV and you try to get a million and a half, two million viewers. By the way, have you seen Rampage for real? I have not. Now I got to tell you, I watch a lot of television.

These days, not as much as before, being a father and all. And I actually know the people who produce that show. That might be, honestly, that might be the worst TV show I've ever seen in my life. I watched the second episode. I mean, I was blown away. It's acting on a reality show, which is bad enough. Sure. The whole premise of the second episode was them.

getting concerned that he wasn't training. He's not training at all, and they're getting concerned. He goes to me Warren G to do some rap song. I mean, I was like, I thought it was a joke. I thought there was like, there was a reality show within a reality show and someone was filming me watching this because it was unbelievably bad, horrendously bad. It was shockingly bad.

But, I mean, I guess, would it be more interesting if he was like in the gym training? I feel like the aspect of him not training is kind of like. Oh, God. God, no way. That's how you're getting me excited for the return of Rampage Jackson that he's not training. Look, I'm just trying to play devil's advocate here. No, there's other ways to hype a fight.

And I'm sure your account is relatively accurate. There's other ways to hype a fight. And these guys are good at production. I mean... I'll say this. The promo didn't get me interested in watching. I didn't see any promos, and that's why I guess I watched it. But there was one cool thing that they did.

The guy who lives with Rampage and is his training partner, they were looking for him. They couldn't find him because he went to go record this song with Warren G. I'm a huge fan of. And it was kind of weird to see him there,

but it was like, don't even get me started on that part. But anyway, and the guy, while eating dinner in the house, was talking to the crew and asking the crew

if they knew where Rampage was. Then he got pissed and he was like, oh, you film an empty room. Now, that was kind of like breaking the fourth wall because you usually don't see the subjects talk to the cameraman,

the crew and all that. But honestly, I don't even know if that was legit. It was, it was, it was so clever that I think it was planned, if you know what I'm saying. There you go. Not good. Our next question, Eddie Alvarez. We had a lot like this, so you'll get the general gist. Do you think it's good or bad for Alvarez what's happening with the pay-per-view? The paper view got canceled, so I guess it gives Alvarez ammunition next time he goes to court against Bellator, or does it put him in the same place he was before? Okay. One more time about

the Eddie Alvarez thing. I've told it to you. Everyone who's coming out and saying that's not true, you don't know the facts, these are the facts. It's a two-fight deal. If he wins, he has to fight Chandler a third time. If he loses, he can leave. He's paid a certain amount for the first fight plus a bonus, certain amount for the second fight plus a bonus. There's no pay-per-view deal involved. There's no cut. So he has no ammunition. Doesn't matter at this point. That's the settlement. They went back, thought of a new deal, settled on this. There's an out-frewing. for him at some point.

Win two fights and you're gone. Lose this fight and you're gone. He's not going to throw the fight. That's for damn sure. And move on. But there's no ammunition. There's nothing to go back to court with. Just because it's on pay-per-view,

he wasn't getting points, anything like that. This is better for him. More people are going to see him fight. At the end of the day, that's a win. We touched on this earlier. How do you rank Chandler? Bjorn calls him the best lightweight

in the sport. How do you see him stacking up against the UFC and other competition? He's in my top 10, that's for sure. I totally agree with you. It's hard to truly make him number one and call him the Michael Jordan of the lightweights or whatever the hell Bjorn called him

because he hasn't fought, you know, top 10 competition. This is the top 10 fight. That's why I'm so excited. And it's one of the few top 10 fights he can get. I'd like to see these guys fight a best of seven if I could, but it wouldn't make sense and I doubt Eddie Alvarez would like it. Mike might like it because he has a long-term deal. But he's in my top 10.

Where exactly my top 10? I can't recall. but I'd say I think I'm usually inclined to put him, you know, six to ten. And partially because he doesn't fight the top competition, if he was in the UFC, I think he would be up there with the Pettuses and the Bensens and the Gilberts and those guys. He's that damn good. He is truly very good. And if you're not watching him because you're not a Belator fan, you're missing out.

And trust me, trust me, if you never watch Belator, and you'd be surprised how many people do not watch it. You'd be surprised how many people write to me that, you know, for whatever reason, they're their UFC fans and you may hate what they do and just watch this fight this is going to be an amazing fight this if this is a bad fight I'll come here next week and apologize for wasting your Saturday night

I cannot wait for this fight they're both amazing this is one of the few fights that Bell of Tor can put on between two top 10 guys legitimate yeah no I'm I've been very excited for this fight in terms of ranking Chandler I kind of just echo your sentiment.

Until we see him against UFC guys, I can't really get an accurate gauge on him. But I'll say this, his style translates well. Much like Gilbert style translates. Once we do see him in there, I mean, if we do see him in there, I think that he'll be able to compete and definitely be near the top like he is now.

Because his style carries. is over. Regardless of the level of competition, it may be, he might be having tougher fights, but that doesn't mean that he can't keep winning and achieving the same success he had before. Yeah. Next question. WSOF versus Bellator. Considering the ambitions of both Belator and WSOF with their respective TV deals and expansion plans, which promotion do you think will be the bigger entity in three years time? I still have to go with Belator only because they have the deeper pockets. Viacom is Viacom. World Series of Fighting does not.

have those kind of pockets. I'll tell you, though, World Series of Fighting Number Six was their best show to date. Justin Gachie looked amazing, and they're really building a star on him. Marlon Marais looked amazing. Once again, getting a finish. I love that they put him in the co-main event. The John Fitch fight might have been the fight of the day. I mean, him coming back with his back to the wall, and the first round that he had, which was horrendous, comes back with the second and third that he had, wins that fight, tremendous stuff. And then the Carl finish defeating Berkman, his story. That was a great show. There were no cheap fights, no gimmick fights, no true one-sided beat downs, although, you know, maybe you could say the Mariah's fight was

kind of one-sided. But other than that, I mean, I mean, everyone thought that Fitch was, you know, getting served a cupcake. Well, he almost lost the fight. So I really like that show. But to answer the question, VICOM's involved. And, you know, hopefully they don't make decisions like putting other fights on pay-per-view, at least for now. But as far as their backing is concerned, I mean, ticket sales for WSOF aren't great thus far. And WSOF really needs to stick to one locale. They need to listen to what or watch what Strike Force did.

Just stick to one corner of the world. Start doing more casino shows, get paid for your events and all that stuff. Because you're going all over the place. You're going to Canada. You're going to Japan now. You're going to these markets that aren't actually good markets. Forget about, you know, at WSOF, they're not good for the U.S. UFC, Florida, most recently, you need to just put on great fights and stick to the best market

arena that you can get and stop trying to expand and going all over the place. I will say, though, it was good that their undercard featured a lot of Floridians because if you were watching the undercard stream, as I was on Saturday before my eyes exploded out of my head, a lot of the undercard guys were getting big cheers. And that's what the undercard guys do. you put local guys on the undercard and then people buy the tickets and they stick around for the main card

but you have to cater to the local audience you can't just bring in guys from Vegas and Ohio and Europe to be on your undercard you're not the UFC try to sell tickets again to answer the question you have to go to the Beltor at least for now

next question is UFC fight for the troops three is UFC fight for the troops three the worst card on paper in the last 10 years the worst card on paper Well, should I do the whole Dana White? You can't judge a card before it actually happens. You can judge it on paper.

Sure. Okay, worst card on paper. Okay, let's look at the card here. I mean, obviously, I know what the main event is and the co-main event. Are we going top to bottom? Is that what he's asking? Yeah, I imagine so. Tim Kennedy, Sapanital.

I mean, look, it's not a great main event. Everyone, I mean, this is not the kind of star power that you expect from a UFC main event, but the original main event was the Otomachita versus Tim Kennedy. which was interesting. And remember, Tim Kennedy, his history is in the military, and the show is called Fight for the Troops. No tickets are being sold for this show. It is for the troops.

So you have to put Tim Kennedy up there. And the main event, it makes sense. Alexis Davis versus Liz Karmouche is a great fight. Everyone talking about Jessica and Drage on Saturday, what that fight told me against Rosie Sexton was that Liz Karmouche is the most underrated fighter in the UFC's Bantamweight Division, women's bantamweight division.

Without a doubt. Liz Karmouche does not get the respect that she deserves. Davis beat Sexton in her first fight. I'm curious to see how Davis does because I think she was very nervous for that first fight. Yo-Romero is coming off a crazy finish flying knee back in April against Honey Marks. It's an okay fight.

How about this one? Mazvedal versus Jabilov. That's a great fight. That's a tremendous fight. That should be higher up on the card. Other fights that I think are interesting, Bobby Green versus James Krause, George Rup versus Francisco Rivera is good.

Bermudas versus Siler. on Dami versus Noons, this is not the worst card. It might be shadowed, overshadowed by the fact that the main event is weak, but the rest of the fights are very interesting, in my opinion. Larkin Komosi, Medeiros versus Yves Edwards, Seth Dazzinsky's fighting on the card, he's always good, the Polish pistola. I mean, yeah, is it, you have to understand there's a tier system here, right? There's the pay-per-views, there's the Fox cards, there's fight nights.

This is a charity show. It's a charity show for the UFC. They're going to a base in Fort Campbell, Kentucky, and they're bringing five, four, nine, 13 fights for the troops. It's not the kind of card that I think we should sit here and really criticize. I also think, objectively, it's not really the worst. There have been some bad ones. Honestly, some of those cards in Brazil are way worse than this.

Yeah, where there's like 30 unknown guys. I have no problem with this card. I think a lot of the fights are very interesting, and I think there's a lot of fan favorites on there. Mazvedal Habulov is tremendous. Bermudez. Bermudez coming off the fight of the year. Potential.

I have no beef with this card. I think it's okay. Bobby Green, James Krause? King Bobby Green. We haven't seen him since the Vokman fight. That feels like it was like 30 years ago. I want to see it. Yeah.

Which of the following was the biggest surprise to you and why? Yoto's head kick at UFC Fight Night 30. Berkman being on the receiving end of the choke of Steve Carl. Bellator is scrapping the paper view. or WS-O-F ending, I don't even know what that means, but going to Japan. God, what a busy weekend,

I'm just going to say that, well, the biggest story was obviously the Bellator story. I'm still going to say them scrapping because everyone's like, I remember when I tweeted the news and broke the story, people were acting like,

oh, of course that happened, of course, who didn't see that coming? BS. I mean, I don't see anyone who's out there predicting that the show was not going to go from a pay-per-view to a spike card that it was just going

to get changed or someone's going to get injured. Of course, you know that Tito's injury prone, but no one was out there actually predicting it. That was a crazy moment. You know, that was chaotic. That was a crazy way to end the week. So I'll go with number three. You could have predicted all those happening. I mean, WSWF going to Japan. I mean, I don't know, that didn't really set the world on fire. I mean, they just made an announcement. I mean, but it is surprising. Is it surprising? it's a partnership with the pancreas. It's like what they're doing over in Canada with, I believe it's AFC over there.

It's just a partnership. It's, I mean, once they actually make a card, and I guess Okami should fight on that card, you would think, but the whole thing was poorly executed. There was just some guys standing next to Ray Cepho, and you didn't really understand. They didn't explain the pancreas thing. He was from pancreas.

He was wearing a pancreas jacket, but they didn't explain the deal. It was very strange. Yeah. Number one wasn't really surprising at all. No, I mean, you could have predicted that. You could have predicted Carl submitting Berkman. It's not like it was GSP.

Yeah, I guess by default. It's three. This question about legalizing MMA in Norway. The Norwegian MMA Association is trying to legalize MMA in Norway, but they are faced with enormous critics. One of them even said, is it ethical to punch an opponent who is on the bottom? It's illegal in kickboxing, Brazilian jiu-jitsu, grappling, etc. As a journalist, how would you answer and come with a counter argument? Seem they couldn't come with a good counter argument.

Is it ethical to punch an opponent, basically to strike a man while he's down? I mean, there's no standing eight count. Sure. You're striking somebody who's vulnerable. I mean, at this point, all you have to say is the proof is in the pudding, right? I mean, how many UFC fights have there been? High-level MMA fights and there never been a serious injury or death? I would say that, look, in a perfect world, it has been proven that it can be done, like

Lyotamachita, not throwing that extra punch. But even so, a guy coming, getting up and saying, yeah, I'm okay, and getting knocked down three times and getting repeated blows to the head is way worse than what happens there. It doesn't look good. Aesthetically, it doesn't look good. It's obviously not the greatest thing in the world to happen, but it's way worse what happens in boxing, in my opinion. That's what I was going to say. Aesthetically, it's, it's, it's, it's so. against our human nature to want to see somebody, you know, chase another guy to the ground and hurt him while he's already hurt. But in terms of, you know, guys standing up being rocked and still getting an eight count and then letting them continue to take that punishment is definitely not, you know, more humane, isn't more ethical. The sport is regulated in a way that's proven to be effective.

And by the way, more often than not, a lot of these guys, they're like, can you go? can you continue? The guy's like, you know, you could tell us you can't continue, and they still let him continue. Well, I mean, we've had some episodes of that in MMA lately. In Houston, people were complaining about the doctor coming in and saying, can you see my fingers? And, you know, that was it.

That was the entire test. So just in all combat sports, there's going to be, you know, people who are adverse to it. MMA doesn't have the same, you know, history that boxing does. It's more established. but the proof is in the pudding. MMA is safe enough now that there's really no argument against it. We've said the proof is in the pudding a lot on this show. Do you realize it makes me not putting up from you?

Next question. Do you feel we sufficiently address that? Sure. Last question from the website. Was that a sneeze or a cough? That was a cough. Okay. What are you guys going to dress up for as for Halloween?

I'm sorry. So our good friend Bandit Octopus asked me about my son, which is a lot more interesting than me. It really cares about me. And I appreciate her asking about my son very much. So I've never been much of a... I mean, when I was like 10 years old, I used to love Halloween. But these days, especially as a father, I get more of a kick out of it. I bought my son like three different outfits.

One is a full-body costume, Bugs Bunny, where, you know, it's like full-body. like he's actual bunny. He doesn't like the head part of it very much because he has to wear this thing where it's a bunny face, bug bunny's face over his head. He doesn't love that. Last year he was a lion, I believe it was. We also bought him a pirate outfit.

I was going to buy him, what's the name of the Star Wars guy? Yoda. Yoda, that would have been hilarious, but I kind of felt bad. I felt like people would be laughing at him. He doesn't deserve that. But I don't know.

I'm not really going to go, you know, I don't really go to those, you know, those young swinger sexy parties where people are dressed up as, you know. Those young swinger sexy parties. Yeah, those, those, the slutty nurses and whatnot. I don't really do that thing. Do you do that stuff? Not really. Not really, but you might do it. I mean, I'll go to a party.

Yeah. What are you going to dress up as? A full onesie Bugs Bunny, coincidentally. That would be amazing. Come by for a pick. Yeah, I don't know. I usually freestyle it, come up with something last minute. You know, we're taping the MMA beat on a Thursday this week, which is Halloween,

but it's airing. It's going to be posted on a Friday, so I think it would be weird, but I thought of us all. No, no, no, costumes. Really? Yeah. Mandatory. You want to see Jeff Wagenheim in a costume? He said he was going to dress up as Chuck Mindenhall. First of all, that's amazing, and you just gave it away.

Now I'm mad about that. Oh, I'm sorry. Second of all, he could just be like some kind of surfer dude or something with a Hawaiian shirt. Luke's not going to be on. It'd be actually funny if we all. dressed up as each other. Well, I mean, you already, you already kibosh that one by giving it away. But that would have been amazing.

Well, no, I would have to tell Chuck. Yeah, but you don't have to tell the audience. Now everybody's clued into this. Yeah, but people are going to want to see it. And it would have been great if, you know, Chuck doesn't have the end seat. Somebody else is sitting in his seat wearing the hat. I could just wear my promotional malpractice t-shirt. And be Luke.

And be Luke. So who's going to host, though? Well, I mean, let's be honest. Oh. Mm-mm-mm. Okay, that was it for the website. Let's go to the Twitter questions. Happy Halloween, everyone.

Next season's starting on Wednesday. Very excited about that. October 30th, Milwaukee. I think a new Uncle Drew video came out today. Cleveland Cavaliers, Kyrie Irving, where he dresses up as the old man and goes to the basketball court. Oh my God, I just got the best idea. What?

I got the best idea. Okay. Don't say it if it's really that good. Well, it's pretty good, but I have to say it. For M.A. Beat Halloween edition, I will dress up as New York Rick so you can finally appear on the show. I love it. I have to give props to Will on that one. He just wrote it to me on G-Chad. That is incredible. He finally earns his keep on the show. That would be hilarious. I dress up as New York.

I mean, you're going to need some lessons. I'll teach you. Amazing. We'll have to give you some swag infusion. Sure, sure. Okay. First question from the website. Do you think we'll see T. Doris fight again? His body is clearly sending him a message, but will he listen? I don't know about that. I can't really speak for him.

I tried to get him on the show, but didn't return any of my text. Rampage sent me a GIF. Is it a GIF or GIF? I always messed this up. It's actually GIF, according to the guy who created it. But we'll say GIF because it sounds better, and that's my stance on it. So anyway, GIF. Did he do it?

No. Yeah, he said he's going to talk on Monday, but I don't see any interview or anything up here on his Twitter. Anyway, I think he should retire just from a health standpoint, just for his own future, his kid's future, all that stuff. I think he should retire. Will he listen? Only God knows.

Next question. Do you think the U.S.C. should pull a Bellator, 106. I'm sorry. I didn't continue that, for certain events, meaning I suppose that this means pull them from a pay-per-view to a free card. Man, that's not an easy thing to do, you know, and I asked that question on the conference call. You can't just be like, you know, I don't feel like, you know, putting this year. And especially now with, you know, Fox Sports One involved and there's live events and all that stuff, you can't just pull the plug.

Plus, you can't piss off the satellite and pay-per-view providers, cable providers. There's a lot at stake there. There's advertising, all that stuff. You can't do it. You just can't. So sometimes you just have to take it on the chin. That's why this was such a big deal. It's not just like being like, you know what, on second thought, we're going to make this a free show.

It doesn't work that way. A lot of people involved. Next question. With his performance on Saturday as a middleweight, where do you rank Machita in the division? It's a very good question. Right now, after beating Mark Munoz? Well, I got Wyman 1, Anderson 2, Vitor's up there. Is he above Jacqueray?

You know my answer. He's not above Jacqueray? The UFC rankings have him at five, but we all know those are a little wacky. Who's four? Bisping. Wow. Is he above Bissing? That'd be a great fight.

That would be a great fight. That fight right there. That is a good fight. Once the last time Bisping beat a top tenor? Belcher was kind of in the top ten. Well, Belcher was surging at the time you beat him. No, no. Belcher was coming off the loss to Yushinokami. Remember him?

Yeah. Oh, I didn't remember him. Yeah. That's right. But before that, that was the one loss? Before that, that's when he had been in Paul Harris. The rail, the Belter train. Right.

Okay. He's pretty, he's in the four or five right now, I'd say. He's above the Carmel's and the Phillies of the world. You know, there's obviously the weirdness of the Chal Sunn situation, because he still should be up there, even though he's moonlighting as a light heavyweight. But he's in that mix, I'd say, for now. I agree with that. Ken, this is an interesting one, Ken Pearson takes some blame for the knee.

He seemed to be touching the canvas tactically rather than out of need. I mean, listen to what Mark Goddard said. He doesn't believe it. So, I mean, yeah, I think that a lot of guys do that, but, you know, how can I see? The referee just came on and said that he didn't think that he was doing it, um, tactically, as you say. So I, from my perspective, honestly, I couldn't even see it. There was the scroll thing at the bottom. I couldn't even see the hand. The best guy to ask, that's why I wanted to have him on the show, was Mark Goddard.

I couldn't even see his hand. It was cut off. But I do think in those cases, more often than not, guys are doing it tactically. And, hey, if you can do it, do it. Until they change the rules, I disagree with Mark. They should change the rule. It shouldn't be up to their discretion. It should be 100% outlawed.

But it's also, it's a hard thing to police. How do you know when someone's actually doing it to be, you know, to, you know, to kind of play around, or they're actually doing it because that's the way they fell, that's where their body is at that moment. It's tough. Well, that's true of a lot of the rules, though. I mean, is it possible that a guy has intentionally kicked somebody below the belt before? But, you know, oh, it was an accident? Because it's very rare that you see somebody called on an intentional groin kick, but it has to happen. There has to be a time where somebody's trying to use it to get an advantage.

Same thing with finger poking. I mean, there's a very. always going to be subjectivity and there's always going to be the referee is going to either need to make a call or we have to take everything out of their hands completely. That rule in particular, I think that, you know, it would be much easier to make that one an objective, here's the rule on it, you're allowed to knee in the head from, you know, from this point forward. I think that that's an easy change, but we can't completely outlaw referees having to make a call. They're going to have to. Yeah. I like that he cleared up the whole three-point stance thing. It doesn't have to be a three-point stance. Yep.

Next question. Do you agree, disagree with Rogan's commentary during the Rosie Sexton prelim that the fight should have been stopped? This person disagrees. I don't. I don't think it should have been stopped. Do you think it should have been stopped? She was never dropped.

I mean, of course, you can be out on your feet. But I don't know. You could say a lot in these cases. was it because she was a woman? You know, was it because what happened on 166? But I never got the feeling, and I don't know if I'm crazy for feeling this way, I never got the feeling that I'm watching an uncomfortable sporting event, an uncomfortable sporting match, an uncomfortable fight,

where one person is being completely outmatched, and she has no chance to come back, and this is actually a detriment to her. I never got that feeling. I was never queasy about it. I did get that feeling. Okay. But I still think that it's in her hands, in her corner's hands, to take her out of that fight.

There was never a point where you were like, right there, right there, they should end the fight. I don't think there was a point in the Junior Dos Santos-Ca-Valaska's fight that you can point to before, you know, he completely passed out, that there was a point that you could have stopped that one. I don't think that that's... The knee at the end of the first hit her head, because it seemed like afterwards she had a massive bump on her head,

But people were telling me after I said it that it was her shoulder. I don't remember. It was the one where she was grounded, right? Yeah. If anything, I don't remember. I thought that was illegal. But I really didn't. I really didn't think that it should have been stopped.

And, you know, she never really had a moment where she came back to kind of justify this. But I never really truly felt uncomfortable. She's been in the sport a long time. And I don't know. Give her the benefit of the doubt, I guess. Sometimes, I mean, Dana says this. Sometimes fighters are too tough for their own good. and it's true.

I think that Rosie would have been the one who gets most hurt by the fact that the referee stops the fight. She wouldn't want it. Otherwise, she would have given up. And you have to respect her heart and her professional opinion that she can still win this fight. Yeah, but, you know, I'm not going to listen to her on that front because, you know, what is she going to say? Oh, the fight should have been stopped. You know what I mean? She's not going to say that.

But watching it, I never felt uncomfortable. If she did, she would have stopped it. There were 10-8s. Well, after the fact, she's not going to say, you know what, in hindsight, they should have stopped that fight. I mean, it would be awesome if she did. And she's probably one of the few that would be honest about it. But I don't think she would say it. I guess my feeling in general is if the fighter wants out, that's when it's time.

Yeah, but no fighter wants to quit. No one wants to tap. So the corner, her corner? Somebody whose responsibility it is. Someone has to know her and recognize. that this is just not going to end well, and there's no chance of coming back. Someone has to do it, but it's tough. Someone brought this up to me last week that a lot of the cornermen out there are so young in our sport

and it's not like these old grizzle guys who have been around the fight game for so long that they don't recognize these things, and they think like a fighter, as opposed to as a coach, mentor, father figure, et cetera. And they're kind of like, oh, I don't want the fight to be stopped. Why would I want a fight to be stopped as opposed to like in boxing where these guys are like 50, 60 years old, and they think about long term and whatnot. It's a very interesting thing. Yeah, and it's tough because as I said, I did feel that.

I did feel that she was completely outmatched and there was no way she was going to win that fight and do anything other than take unnecessary damage. So essentially what I'm saying is I wanted her to take unnecessary damage, which makes me a little uncomfortable. So I'm not, I mean, it's a tough thing. Do you feel that way because she's a woman? No. Okay. I felt that way because it was a situation where somebody was completely outclassed and doing nothing but sustaining blows that are going to either affect her. down the line or possibly affect her down the line.

And I felt the same way in the junior, excuse me, in the junior dosanto's fight, but I also wouldn't have wanted to stop that until the moment it was stopped. So it's, it puts me in a position where I'm not sure exactly what to do or how I feel. Well, that just makes me upset. Next question. With the emergence of the bantamweight women, is it too late for a lot of these veterans? Basically, their last chance to make it. Well, you saw that on the Ultimate Fighter, Tala Rosa.

You saw Tanya Avenger lose. Shana Basler has lost. Yeah, it sucks, but they're getting a chance. At least at the end of the day, they could fight in the UFC. And also in the Rosie Sexton fight, I mean, she's not a 135er. She should probably be fighting at 125 or 115. And 115's a good division. Maybe one day they'll bring that in.

But, you know, at least they're getting a chance to fight in the UFC, and I think they'll take that chance. But yeah, for some of them, look, for some of them, it would have been better if it was around in 2010 or 2009, 2008. But Women's in a Maze in a lot better place today. So for the betterment of the entire sport, it came at the right time. It's a lot deeper than we thought it was, or at least Dana White thought it was. Here's our last question. Cole Miller turned heel and called out all of Europe after his win.

What other fighters could you see turning heel? Oh, my God. Everyone could turn heel. I mean, can you imagine Chris Wyden after beating Anderson, you know, sticking it up to Brazil and saying, I'm not that religious after all, you know, or something like that? How about GSP? Oh, how about GSP beating Johnny Hendricks in Las Vegas and saying this is the last time I'm fighting in the U.S.?

I hate America? You all smell. Here's toilet paper, and this is what you should do with it. I'm going back to Canada. How about something like that? That'd be interesting, but I don't think that the heel turn has to be necessarily, you know, nationalistic or nationalistic. It's always cheap, it works.

Yeah, I don't know. I liked it, though. Okay, like, can you imagine a Mark Munoz heel turn? We're talking before this fight, but he's like, we were never friends. I would have ripped your head off. I'm better than you. I beat you up all the time in practice. I always go easy on you.

Like, a Mark Munoz, like, you need a really nice guy. You know what I mean? Then it's like, wow, that is a true heel turn. Cole Miller's a really nice guy. That was amazing, that interview. That was great. And the fact that this is what has to happen. Rogan asks the question.

You ignore the question. You say what you have to say. You insult some people and then you just walk off. You know, he can't drop the mic, but just walking off is almost better. Like, Rogan's standing there. He doesn't know what hit him. It's great. It was amazing.

I loved it. I want to see that fight. Do you agree? Do you want to see that fight? Cole and Connor? Yeah. I mean, everybody's calling out Connor. I mean, he's got to start a cue.

Yeah, but a lot of people aren't at 145. Cole versus Connor, also considering where they're at, Cole's a veteran, it's been around a long time, you know, Connor will be coming back from an injury, so you can't throw them in there with like a Poria or something. That fight legitimately, maybe people won't get all excited on TV, that could sell out an arena and Ireland, no doubt about it. Do you agree? Am I crazy?

No, you're not crazy. And Cole definitely put himself in a good position together. Oh, yeah. Can you imagine the environment? I got to tell you, I don't care if it's, if it's Don Frye versus Mark Coleman in the main event of whenever the U.S. he goes to Ireland. I don't care if it's...

First of all, that'd be awesome. Well, it would be awesome, but you know what I'm trying to say. I don't care if it's you versus Will. I will be there. I need to be there. Those fans are just unbelievable. They're really amazing. Listen, Will.

Yeah. I'm not going to cut a promo. That was it. That was it. All right. We have approached the four plus hour mark. So I think that means it's time to go. I'm enjoying it.

My shoes are off. I don't know if you can see. We can smell. Look at that. shoes are off. I'm just chilling. I could go another four hours. Anyone else got a question? All right, you can hit my music. What a fun show. It's one of my favorite shows.

I really enjoyed it. I like those shows that kind of surprise us. You know what I'm saying? You know, you get to talk to people for the first time, hear their stories, Manuel Newton, Steve Carl. It's fun. I enjoyed it. And we got a big weekend coming up.

Coming off a big weekend, this train is not going to stop, my friends. The mixed martial arts train is alive and well. It's picking up people all across the world, and every weekend there's something to look forward to. And we're just getting started. November is nuts. I'm going to three events myself in November. Fight for the troops, 167, tough finale,

Sacramento in December, and then, of course, UFC 168, and a great year. One of the best years in recent history, in my opinion. Maybe the best. We'll see what happens. Still many good fights to go. Okay, let me say my thank yous and get out of here. Michael Chandler, thank you very much.

Good luck against Eddie Alvers. Cannot wait for that this Saturday, 9 p.m. Eastern, six in the West, although on Spike TV, I think that you have to weigh, tape delay. Oh, that's horrible. I hope they don't do that. Anyway, best of luck, can't wait for that, Beltor 106. Manuel Newton, good luck to him. Thank you for coming back on the show and talking to King Moe.

Best of luck to both of them. Best of luck to Benson and his return whenever it is. And best of luck against me on the basketball court. And then best of luck in your future endeavors after I retire you from the sport. Congratulations to Steve Carl, winning the WSOF. title on Saturday night. Cole Miller, great stuff out of him. Congrats on his big win. Diego Sanchez, legend as always. Thank you so much to him. Mark Goddard, great stuff as well. And thank you to all of you for your questions, comments, all that good stuff. You missed the show. Check it out on

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