MMA Fighting - The MMA Hour - Episode 243

Episode Date: August 18, 2014

Featuring Scott Coker, Din Thomas, Danny Castillo, Josh Barnett, and Krzysztof Soszynski. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love?

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Hello again, everyone. I'm Ariel Hawani. Inside our New York City studio, we have a big show plan for all of you back home or wherever you may be on this beautiful mid-August Monday afternoon here in New York City. Maybe the morning where you are, maybe the evening where you are, or like one of our guests and maybe early Tuesday morning. Who knows? That's the beauty of this world we live in.

So the UFC had another event on Saturday. It was in Maine. It was UFC Fight Night headlined by Ryan Bader versus Ovinst St. Peru. Of course, Ryan Bader winning that fight. Not the most exciting affair. The undercard, you know, it's interesting. A lot of us, including myself, criticized the UFC for not putting Zach McCovsky versus U.S.

For Miga, Sarah McMahon versus Lauren Murphy. on the main card, and those fights kind of ended up being duds. And the fights that we criticize them for putting on the main card, fights like Jack May versus Sean Jordan, Alan Jobin versus Seth Buzinski, Tiago Tavares versus Robbie Peralta, those fights ended up being great. So maybe we don't know what the hell we're talking about. Maybe we should just shut this whole thing down and go home. What do you say?

I mean, really. In any event, we're not going to do that because we have a fun show planned, as I said. Looking forward to getting into it with all of you. Let's run it down, all right? 345. We're going to take your questions and comments. Hit us up using the hashtag the MMA hour. Leave a question or comment in the comment section below.

There is, as always, a lot to talk about in the world of MMA these days. You guys like Inside the Vault. I like it too. We're going to keep it going. Thank you for all the feedback last week about it. enjoyed that trip down memory lane, and we're going to do it for the foreseeable future. It seemed like everyone liked it. It was a unanimous hit. So that will be back at around 325. We'll go inside the vault and look at a classic

MMAFighting.com. Interview this one from back in the day before we were MMAfighting.com. And this one also, like last week's, a no-brainer, a good one, one that helped put us on the map. At around 305, we're going to talk to Christoph Soshensky. He is a now former UFC fighter, former MMA fighter. He made it official on Friday on Access TV. He officially announced his retirement, had some troubling things to say about his current health status. And I want to talk to him about, you know, where he goes from here, what happened, why he's retiring now and all that good stuff. Interesting note, by the way, Christoph, when he was on, Here Comes the Boom, playing that character that fought Kevin James in the big UFC fight. Kevin James's character made it to the UFC. I believe Twitter has told me this, that. that that event was UFC 176, the ill-fated UFC 176, the event that never happened. At 2.45, we're going to talk to Josh Barnett. Last week, of course, he won at MetaMor's. The Meta-Morres heavyweight champion, although I don't think he received the belt.

And now I want to know when the heck is he returning to the UFC. When's he going to fight again? What's taking him so long? Last time he fought was late December of last year, his loss to Travis Brown, and he seems healthy, whoops, he seems healthy, so why isn't he fighting? We'll find out. Danny Castillo will stop by at 225.

He's fighting Tony Ferguson at UFC 177. He's now in the quote-unquote co-main event after the UFC moved Demetrius Johnson versus Chris Carrioso to UFC 178. Of course, last time we talked to, that card was still being headlined by John Jones versus Daniel Cormier. And now, so sad, the fight is taking place

January 3rd after John Jones injured his meniscus and ankle head surgery on Thursday. Kind of a bummer. So as a result, Danny Castillo, Tony Ferguson gets bumped to the quote-unquote co-mate event. At 205, we're going to talk to Dean Thomas, who is in Macau. As I said, it's Tuesday morning over there. He's in Macau with Tyron Woodley, and he is a former UFC fighter who has now turned to coaching, but more specifically a scout. He has a scouting program.

People can hire him to scout their opponents. Very interesting stuff. And one of his clients is Tyrone Woodley. And of course, Tyron Woodley is fighting Dung Young Kim Saturday, Macau. So he's over there with him. I'm curious to hear what he has to say about this business that he is trying to get off the ground. And then at 120, we're going to be joined by the new Bellator president, Scott Coker, in his first extended interview since he took over that job, replacing

Bjorne Rebney. Remember, it wasn't all that long ago. News came out that he would be replacing Bjorn Rebony, did that conference call, which wasn't the biggest success, because he didn't have a lot of answers. I'm told he has answers. I'm told we're not going to hear. We'll hit you up in a couple weeks. So I'm excited to talk to Scott. First extended interview since taking over as Bellator president. But first, let us go to the Skype machine and welcome in our colleague over at MMAfighting.com. The one, the only Chuck Mindenhall, who was in attendance on Saturday

in Bangor, Maine for UFC Fight Night. Chuck, how are you? Good. What's happening, my friend? Oh, nothing much. Just another Monday afternoon here in New York. Let's get this thing over with so I can get on to Scott Coker, man. Good stuff.

I appreciate you coming on, as always. So you were in Maine. What was it like? The UFC's debut in Maine. What was the scene like? What was the buzz like? Tell us. It was pretty good. You know, it's a small building,

I don't know. It was sort of a strange event. It was kind of cool for me to go up to Maine. I got to go to Lewiston where, you know, the Ollie, Sunny Liston thing had happened in the Phantom Punch and all that, kind of went through there. It was like a historic five. It's just like a town time forgot now.

But, you know, just knowing that that happened there and things like that. It was kind of cool. Josh Nation was the guy who kind of reminded me of that fact when I was up there. So that was kind of fun. But the fights themselves, you know, it was, I thought they were pretty good. It was interesting that we had. had all decisions early on, then it went into this, like, uh, Reckomode with all these TKOs and

chaos. It was a lot of fun. The vibe was really good. They really loved Tim Bosh. It was like the first time I think I'd ever seen him get a standing O, you know, as he came out. And people were just, you know, when he, when he came back and one of that, that place was, uh, was going crazy. So, uh, that was really kind of cool to see that. Kind of funny, though, right? I mean, we were on the M.M.A. beat on Thursday. And we were criticizing the UFC quite heavily for putting Mokovsky Formiga and McMahon, Murphy on the undercard, and those fights ended up being duds compared to the fights

they put on the main card, right? They did. Particularly, you know, it was, McMahon, particularly, I really wanted to see that fight on the main card, and the way that one played out was just, you know, people were really, it was quiet in there during that fight, and McMahon just

was doing what she does, but just not a lot of offense from the top. It was actually it looked like Murphy was getting more offense from the bottom. It was just, that type of fight. I mean, you sort of suspect that could happen, but ultimately, yeah, both those fights ended up not sort of living up to, I think, what we thought they were going to be. So do you think that A, Murphy should have won that fight, and B, Formiga should be the number one contender at 125? You know, I was going back and forth

on them. I was surprised that more people weren't sort of blown up about the Murphy thing, because, you know, obviously, like I saw Mike, Mike Bone was there, and he was kind of posting the stats as we were going. And it was interesting because you saw her with the volume from the bottom and staying busy. She was the one, the more offensive fighter. But that's a tricky one. I still probably would have given it to McMahon because it was her fight. She was still putting

Murphy into, you know, on the ground and into the danger areas. But it was tough. That was one of those ones like Doc Hamilton teaches to those guys when they're, you know, what to be looking for. If a person's on their back doesn't necessarily mean they're losing, etc. So I remember Miguel Torres that time. There was

that big controversy, those type of things. But I think I still would have went McMahon on the fight old ultimately. And as far as for Miga, yeah, maybe. I mean, he kind of like, you know, he slipped against Benavides and that's up. He's looked really good. I mean, and you're considering that Chris Carrioso is the guy who's up there right now. Yeah, I would, I would say that he could be the number one contender. At least, you know, at least he's got some buzz behind his name, I guess, a little bit. Yeah. And it kind of makes you wonder, like, they really rush Sarah McMahon, right? I mean, you think about where her stock is at now.

And sure, it was, it was pretty high going into the Rousie fight, but I think that was just because of her credentials as an Olympian. She hadn't really, you know, evolved or, you know, matured as an MMA fighter. And now you see her now against someone who's obviously not at the level of Ron Rousey. She was the invictive champion. But it would have been nice if they waited like three or four more fights to give her that fight, right? It's clear now that it was a little too soon. And the conspiracy theory is, obviously, there's like this whole faction of people who think that they protect Ron Rout.

UFC protects Ronda Rousey and stuff. And therefore, you're going to put a legit threat like Sarah McMahon in earlier while she's still a little greener. But at the same time, you know, I talked to Sarah McMahon about that. And she didn't feel like the timing was off. So why should anybody else? She thought that she was ready for that shot, you know, whatever. I think now it's like it's good for her, you know, 33 years old to sort of have a goal to get back there. And ultimately, you know, given, you know, the relative dearth of, you know, consenders in that division.

of where we, you know, how some of the bigger names that we want to see are not even in the UFC, I mean, yet. So, you know, ultimately maybe she gets back there, and then it becomes a bigger fight the second time through. Let's talk about Gray Maynard, because I think that was one of the big stories of the weekend. You wrote, as always, a great article about him after the fight on Sunday on MMAFinding.com, just talking about, you know, whether or not this could be the end. I mean, that's three brutal losses in a row, and then when you couple the Frankie Edgar knockout, which I think really started at all with those losses. I mean, this is a very tough stretch for a guy who at one time was so close to being the UFC lightweight champion. After this particular loss, the shots he took,

the shots he has taken, do you think it's time for him to walk away? I think it is. It's really tough with Great Manor. I mean, obviously, you've talked to Great Manor. You know what a great guy is. He's actually one of those guys who's very personal with the media. I spent some time with him in Vegas for a fight cover story I did back in 2011, met his mom, met his dogs, met his wife. You know, you go around and you see how he you know how much he uh how passionate he is about the fight game you know he takes care of himself outside of it um eats right all that stuff it's it's hard to see a guy go through that uh so ultimately when it happens it doesn't you know it adds that sort of asterisk to the whole thing where you're like you're on eggshells watching a guy like that he's coming off

with some brutal knockouts everybody's wondering about his chin is he going to be able to hold up uh and you get this kind of fight where suddenly he's supposed to be fighting somebody else who's not necessarily a big threat to knock him out. And then he's fighting Ross Pearson, who is, I thought, a threat to knock him out. And it obviously played out that way. It became an eggshell affair for me. I was watching it, and you're like,

here's one of those ones that reminded me of maybe when Rich Franklin was fighting Chuck Liddell, one of those type of fights really like, you know, if he gets touched on the chin, he's going to go down, and sure enough, that's what happened. And same thing in this fight, you just felt like a matter of time. You wanted to see him if he took a big

hit, how he'd respond. He It looked like he took at least a good shot or two in the first round. He was really mixing up his attack, I thought, was trying to incorporate his wrestling. Sort of, it looked like he was getting out of the way of big punches and stuff like that. But ultimately when he get caught, you see him that stare that he has. It's just too familiar. He's sort of just parting wits going down. I love Graham Maynard, but, yeah, if I was him at 35 years old, kind of the trajectory of things have happened, I would walk away.

That's tough too with Gray Manard. This is a guy who that's all he knows is fighting. Three years old, he starts wrestling. His father is a collegiate wrestler. He's named after Gray Simons, from Lock Haven back in the 1960s. Every single thing about him is the fight game. And for him to have to make that decision at 35 years old and step away, especially on the sort of downward spiral he's on, really tough. But I think that if I was him, that's what I do.

But, you know, it's far be it for me to make that call for. You know, we've had these situations. come up before and Dana White has asked in the post-fight scrums, do you think that this guy should retire? Will you ask him to retire? And of course, he was asked this question about Gray Maynard. And he didn't come out like he has in the past about other people. He said he'll talk to him. But, you know, he was kind of making a case for him, saying that he's a relatively young guy, et cetera, et cetera. Were you surprised by that? I was a little bit, but I was a little bit because we've seen Dana really, you know, see somebody

not like Chuck Liddell, he was begging him to stop. BJ Penny had no problem. You know, you see him sort of intervening, actually, with guys' careers a little bit, persuading them to step away. It seemed like he was kind of given Gray Maynard a little bit more of a leeway in the matter, but he did say he would talk to him. Maybe he hadn't fully processed it. But I tell you what, I know Graham Maynard was taking the brain stuff very seriously.

He had been checked out, like the UFC had sent him to South Dakota to kind of be checked up on at the Sanford Medical Center out there and just go through a battery of neurological tests make sure he was fit to fight. And they deemed he was. But obviously, like, you know, his reaction time and everything else is just a little slower than it has been.

I know he really did start falling in love with boxing. He was a very, he's an officiator on boxing. He was showing me all of his, you know, boxing collections back when I visited him in 2011. I just don't think that, I don't think he has it anymore, you know. and maybe Dana when he speaks to him will come to that realization as well. You know, you can't help but feel for the guy. So close to getting that title on two occasions, right?

I mean, he was so close to that second fight against Frankie. The third fight as well, he had a great first round, and, you know, I just can't imagine how hard it is to come to that realization when you were that close to tasting gold. He was even in the running when Frankie Edgar had fought Veach. He was fighting Nate Diaz at the time, and he was in the running to get that shot against BJ Penn, you know? So it's like you could go back even further to where he was,

you know, close. He just hovered around that position forever. He's like the perennial number one contender and to sort of go out like that. It's rough. It's always rough. The fight game is cruel that way. But, you know, that's sort of, the fact that you could fail, you know, is part of the allure. Failure, you know, failure is part of the allure. So I think that that's one of those things that, you know, he just goes down in the same way that so many others do. I mean, Ultimately, that's where the fight path ends for most fighters is they start to lose it and they have to walk away. The beauty, in a sense, of the fight game as well is that you say how cruel it can be and it can be. It was very cruel to Ross Pearson not that long ago, and now here he is, triumphant and looks.

You know what I mean? It's just, it's amazing how things can change. By the way, you really like that Matt Veach-Frank-Edgar fight. You bring it up all the time. Why do you like it so much? I still find it like a great hurdle. Well, we always have these arguments about this person deserve a title shot. And you always go back to the Matt Veach thing.

Sure. And look at Frank Yeager. I mean, he's still up there. So it was, you know, did he deserved it or he did good things when he got there. Although some, very good point. Some people forget that he was supposed to fight Kurt Pellegrino on that card. Right. Who was on a role, he pulled out, Veach stepped in.

So, you know, these things happen in M.MA. So let's talk about the main event. You know, Ryan Bader wins. The kind of fight that he usually wins. He usually wins those fights and then he has trouble when he gets to the top. But to me, it felt like one of those fights that, For the most part, the UFC's decision to make all main events five rounds has benefited them. We've seen some great fights.

This one felt like it didn't need to be five rounds, right? This is the exact problem I had with it when they announced they were going to do all five-round main events. Besides the obvious thing, if guys get, you know, if guys are a late replacement or something is not trained for five-round. They have to shuffle things. All of a sudden, you're in a five-round fight. The obvious sort of logistics that go into it, there are always going to be the potential for duds where people don't want to, you know, Three rounds seems like an excruciating long time to watch two guys do what they were doing the other night. Five rounds, that was bizarre.

We were past 1 o'clock in Maine, and the place was alternately drunk and quiet. I mean, it was very odd in there. By the time it sort of got to that point, it was just, it started taking on a surreal vibe. But ultimately, yeah, I still think that they should, it shouldn't be as universal as it is, especially with the amount of cards they're doing. I think it should be more of a case-by-case basis on those types of things. What do you do with the Ryan Bader? Because to me, the obvious thing was him versus Anthony Johnson.

Once we found out that Gus Simpson was hurt and Cormier and Jones were going to fight in September. But now that they're fighting in January, it sounds like Dana White wants to do Gustafsson versus Anthony Johnson. That's what he alluded to. So Bader kind of feels like the odd man out for a second. He does, and it's weird. You know, Ryan Bader, we've talked about. Ron Bader before, but I mean, he's one of those guys who sort of wins this type of fight. He wins against OSPs.

He wins this kind of fight. You want to see what he can do against somebody's not Machita, not Glover-Teshirea. You know, like these guys that have, he gets those big hurdles. He loses those fights. Tito Ortiz, the legend Tito Ortiz would beat him that time. Yes. But I almost, in a bizarre way, because he needs to sort of clear a hurdle, and you look at the, if you look at the UFC rankings, you know, Dan Henderson is right there.

Dan Anderson needs a fight. Bader said he's going to go and check out, like, you know, see what his injuries are, kind of alluded to he might want to be on that December 13th card, the next Fox card in Phoenix. I don't know. That to me seems like it sort of makes sense. I know Dan Henderson's coming off a loss,

but he had a win prior to that. I know a lot of people are sort of suspect as to where he's at, but when a guy like Bader is sort of trying to clear a hurdle against a known guy, a guy who's up there in that strata, why not Dan Henderson? I mean, a guy like that, and the fight to me is a little bit interesting, too, when you kind of contemplated. So I wouldn't mind seeing that fight. Wow, I wasn't even thinking of that.

That wasn't even- Did I blow your mind? Look at you, playing matchmaker. All right, how about this one? Well, as we're talking about matches being made, of course, John Jones, Cormney not happening in September. And, oh, is he gone? What happened? Chuck Mindenhall just dropped the mic.

Blew my mind and walked away. I just wanted to ask him a couple more questions. that was very Chuck-esque. We'll get him back here in a second, and in a minute we're going to be... Oh, there you are. You just dropped the mic. You blew my mind and walked away. I don't know. You froze? I thought we lost each other. I just wanted to ask, you know, they didn't necessarily replace John Jones and Corme. That fight is irreplaceable. But they added Donald Serroney versus Bobby Green, and then they made Mazvedal v. James Krause.

they've sort of beefed up UFC 178 a little bit and shuffled the deck because Masvedal was supposed to fight Bobby Green. Are you happy with this? Does this make you feel a little better than 178? Do those fights do anything for you? I like the Bobby Green Soroni fight. I mean, you look at where Bobby Green has been what it's kind of been able to do. He keeps knocking off guys that people don't think he's going to be on the knockoff.

I mean, to me, that's a fun fight. I don't know if it necessarily – the problem isn't necessarily them sort of fortifying those guys. within those ranks a little bit. It's more just the, you know, the expectation what was going to be sort of the fall out of that and the crater-sized hole that leaves to fill up. I guess it makes it a little sweeter. That fight's more intriguing to me than what was going on before. But they'd also sort of dangled at one point that Eddie Alvarez against Seroni, things

like that. So I feel like we continuously are just sort of hedging on our disappointment on these things. But at the same time, I do like the fight better. I don't know how much it adds to it ultimately, but it's, it's, it's still a little better. You know, this weekend there are two UFC cards. And a lot more easy to digest, in my opinion, because there's a very early one in Macau,

and then there's later, you know, later on that night in Tulsa. I love, by the way, those early morning ones because I could wake up and just, you know, Saturday morning. It's very nice. The sun is rising. Your son wakes up early anyway. Oh, man. Half my day is over by the time that card starts at 6.30.

Top four fights, obviously, Bisping Lee, and then Woodley, Dung Young Kim. And then in Tulsa, Dosangos versus Benson, me, and Pyle, of all those four fights, which one interests you most? Probably the Benson-Henderson fight. Wow. Why? Yeah. I don't know.

I mean, he just, he looked good his last time out. It looked, you know, he seemed like he had a little edge to him. I don't know. It's just, this is an interesting stylistic matchup. I just think it would be a good fight. That's all. I mean, it just seems like it just has that. I think it's going to be an interesting fight when there's.

in there. That's the only reason. But I guess the Kung Lee fights, it seems like, every couple of years. So it's sort of like, I guess it's like, it's an attraction. There's a little bit of a novelty to see him fight. And then Bisping, obviously, being sort of in a must win situation. So I guess that would be up there too. All right. Well, it happens this Saturday, double header for the UFC, another one of those rare Saturdays where they're in

one part of the world and then another part of the world on Fox Sports One. Great stuff. As always, Chuck. appreciate it. We'll see you Thursday for the M.A. B. All right, guys. All right, there he is. Chuck Mindenhall of M.AFighting.com. Check out his article on Gray Maynard. Great stuff. He posted it yesterday about where the veteran goes from here. All right. Let us move along. As I mentioned, it wasn't all that long ago. Scott Coker became the new president of Bellator. Shocking news. Replaced Bjorn Rebney. Of course, he has been around the fight game for quite some time. The brains. The, the,

the father figure behind the Strike Force organization, and he has been promoting combat sports for a very long time, and a lot of people thought that this was a huge coup for Bellator. And he hasn't really talked to the media, and trust me, I've been trying for a very long time, been trying to get him on this show, but he's been laying low, building things up, shuffling the deck, making some big signings,

and hopefully we'll get some more answers to those questions, because right here, right now on the MMA hour, Scott Coker, the president of Belator, tour joins us right now on the show. Scott, you there? I'm here, Ariel. Wow, it is great to hear from you. How are you? I'm doing great. Thank you so much for joining us. We obviously have a lot to talk about, but I just want to know, I mean, a few weeks into the job now, what's it like? How are things going? Boy, I mean, we're working really hard. I mean, it's been a lot of fun. It's kind of been a whirlwind. I feel like I jumped on a train that's going 300 miles an hour. And, you know,

The difference between the strike force and or building strike force and coming on to Bellatory, it's strike force, we kind of built it as we went. And it was a comfortable pace, and we had a small operation. And this opportunity, really, when I jumped on, it was like I was on vacation, I was on vacation in San Diego. And then the next day, I was in MTV offices or Vicom offices in Santa Monica. And I don't think I've unpacked my suitcase since I came on board almost two months ago. And it's amazing. It's actually been exactly two months since they announced that you were the new president. And it seemed like as far as, you know, the media reports were concerned, it all happened very quickly. But honestly, like, when did it start? I mean, when did they first reach out to? Because I know your deal was Zufa expired in March. And then this deal was announced in June. So just three months alone, I know it didn't start right away. How long did the whole thing take to actually unfold? I mean, I would say this. There's probably several opportunities that came my way while I was.

of still in the contract. And I told me, he said, look, I'm employed by the USC, and I don't even want to have a conversation, and this is my date that I'll be free. And so right around that time, I started getting calls and started examining opportunities. And really, it was kind of, it was kind of like a, I don't want to say a last-minute decision, but I was literally sitting in San Diego, like I said, and then I just said, you know what, I'm going to do this. Wow. But prior to that, you know, I got to meet Kevin Kay, who really,

as a fantastic executive and really got to know him, got to like him, feeling the vibe, and feeling his commitment behind mixed martial arts and feeling his commitment behind Bellator. And then I got to be some of the Viacom guys in New York, and not just from a Spike TV commitment, but also from, you know, the parent company commitment is behind this product. And so I started saying, you know what, with our know-how of how to build fights and build fighters and do arena events and do big shows and put on fights that I think fans want to see, which I think that's what we did in our past company. You know, bringing that expertise over here, along with their TV platform,

you know, I think we could have done something great. And so I was sitting in San Diego, and I just literally woke up on a Sunday and said, you know what, I'm going to do this. And retirement is overrated, so don't go anywhere, Ariel, because you're talking, there's more to do. So you were bored? And, you know, this has been a big journey for me. I've been in the fight business promoting fights since 1985.

And it's kind of taking me all over the place through, you know, kickboxing before MMA was legal to working for K-1, working for Strike Force MMA as far as, you know, building, you know, the first MMA company to do it in California before 06 wasn't legal. And then, you know, then working for, selling to ZUFA, working with ZUFA for three years. and I just thought that, hey, this is, all the pieces are in place here. And I think that I could add a lot of value.

And the staff here is amazing. They're very good at what they do. And together, we're going to go and create some big events. You know, all that being said, I was surprised when this was made official because I always knew you were coming back to combat sports, kickboxing, MMA, something. You were going to do something. I didn't think that you were done. But I had the feeling that you would try to build your own thing because you've always kind

of been your own boss. I know you've worked for others or you've had partners and whatnot, but I didn't see you going into a situation, which, let's be honest, there were some issues. From a PR standpoint, there were some disgruntled fighters. The fans felt one way or the other about Beltoir. I mean, there was a lot of work to do. And as you mentioned, it's like a speeding train. You had to just jump on. I mean, did you ever think, you know, maybe I'm just going to go do my own thing? This is very tempting, but those are some major shoes that you had to fill and do so in a very quick time. I mean, you had like a month later, you had your first show, and now here there's like a 12-week season coming up. Did it not entice you to start your own thing as opposed to doing this at one point? You know, and I think you and I talk about it.

Yeah. And I think that, yeah, that was definitely an option, and I had several opportunities. But honestly, it was really Kevin Kay that said, look, we really want you to. to come and help us get this thing going into the next level. And, you know, here's what we can do and here's what we can, you know, bring as far as television and this is who we are. And the more I got to really know who they are, I said, you know what, this is, this might be that one opportunity in time that, you know, could make a difference.

And sometimes those magic opportunities you have to pull the trigger or, you know, it could affect the whole MMA industry, you know, forever. I mean, you know, there's, there's tremendous opportunity with VICOM, all their assets, Spike TV, And think about the commitment of Spike, you know, behind mixed martial arts. You know, they were the partner to tough and all those great fights that we saw, you know, on Spike back in the day with UFC. I mean, you know, they did their half. And so now they're wanting to stay in the fight business and stay committed to M.A. And you know what?

I just thought it was a great fit. Is it a lot of work? Yes. It's like I said, it's like I said, it's like jumping on a train that's going 300 miles an hour. But, you know how it is. I mean, this is something that I think that, you know, I'm built for. And, you know, when you talk about the fighters and all these challenges, we're going to fix those.

And, you know, it's going to take time. And when I think about the possibilities and what this fighter roster can look like in 18 months compared to what it looks like today, I can guarantee you it's not going to be the same, it's not going to be the same picture. And I think that we're going to build some more fighters from the ground up. I think we're very good star identifiers, star builders. And then, you know, as some free agents become available, then, you know, we'll probably acquire some free agents, you know, from time to time.

And that's how we're going to build our roster. And that's how we did the last time. And I think that that's exactly what we'll do this time. Thus far, has it been tougher than you expected? I think the tough thing was getting off a golf course and then going right to work. Yeah. I mean, honestly, it was like, really, I was down there vacationing in San Diego. And then all of a sudden now, two days later, I'm in vacuum offices, and then here we go.

A day later, I'm in front of, you know, the entire staff here at Bellator. That really it's pretty amazing what they've accomplished and how hard they work. Because if you think about, you know, going week to week to week to week for 12 weeks, that's a grind. And they did it. And so, you know, I'm proud to be working with these guys. And, you know, when you talk about fighters, I mean, you know what, it's always, the same story. I mean, you're talking about the producer and the talent, right?

There's always going to be some issues between producer or the production company and talent. And that's just not in this industry. It's in every industry. But I think that we're good at handling those situations, and we're going to continue dealing with that.

But we're not the only league in the MA that has to deal with that. And people deal with it and then just move forward. So that's what we're going to do. I have some other big picture questions for you, want to put them on hold because there's some nitty gritty stuff that we've been dying to know about and hopefully you can provide some answers here. The big one right off the top, in my opinion, is what's going on with Eddie Alvarez? I mean, there were some rumors that the UFC was trying to

book him to fight at UFC 178. Of course, that can't happen because as long as he's a Bellator fighter, he can't go and fight for someone else. And of course, we know about the history between Bjorn and him, and it's obviously been going on and on for quite some time now. He got injured, was supposed to fight not that long ago. I mean, we just want to know, is there a future for Eddie Alvarez and Bellator? Is he going to fight one more time? There's one fight left on that contract, or are you going to part ways

with him and just, you know, wash your hands of the situation and try to move on in a positive way? Well, I tell you, Eddie's a great kid. I sat down with him one time, and basically he told me all the challenges he had with, you know, the past regime. And, you know, I told he got

it. He's, you know, he is a great kid. He's a great kid, he's a great fighter, he definitely had a bad taste in his mouth on a lot of different levels, and when he told me what happened, I said, you know, I don't blame you, it's totally understand, but right now, you know, where it's at today is

you know, he's still a fighter on the contract with Belltor. I know that lawyers are involved, and that's something that happened way before I came on this company, and so you know, right now I don't have an update for you on that. So you still want to keep him on the roster? You still think that there's a chance to work with him?

Well, I think that at the end of the day, a guy like Eddie, if he comes here and he fights great, and we're not going to, but on the other hand, too, if we have to rely on one athlete to make or break a company, we're not going to focus on that either. So, you know, I wish I had more to discuss about Eddie, but honestly, Errol at this point, when lawyers are involved, you know, you want to get two lawyers in a room, then, you know, it just takes a long time to get stuff done. I had heard that there are a lot of people in the company pushing to just wash your hands of the situation. Good for PR, good for morale.

He doesn't want to be there. He only has one fight left, and he's the champion. He can walk away with the belt. So, you know, if he doesn't want to resign, just move on at this point. There's a lot at stake. And that it was all basically, you know, it came down to you. You're the president. Is that accurate?

Well, I think that there's a lot of things to play because, you know, we're a television property. but, you know, it's not just one person's decision. I mean, it's going to be a collective decision. But like I said, you know, I wish I had an answer for you. And it goes back to, you know, there's other people involved. And, you know, at this point, lawyers are talking to lawyers, and that's just worth that. Okay. If you were a betting man, would you say he fights that last fight for Belator and maybe beyond?

I don't bet, so I can answer. But what do you think? What's your gut say? I don't know. What is your gut say, Er. Well, you know, I don't know. Honestly, what I said was, if he's not going to resign, I think it's better for you guys to move on because, you know, why take the risk of having your champion walk away to another organization? And this reminds me to a degree of the Jake Shield situation.

You know, he was your champion, but you got ahead of the situation and said, all right, we're not going to resign him. There's no future there. So we're just going to put it out there and move on, as opposed to him getting up and going and you kind of being left like, oh, gosh, what do we do now? We have a vacant title. You know what I mean? Well, I would say this. I think all the options are open at this table. at this time.

And, you know, I think we'll probably have an update for you by the end of the week. Okay. Really? By the, that's soon? Yeah, we're not going to waste time here at Bellator. Okay. You announced that you're back in the women's MMA business. You have been in the women's MMA business for a long time,

but Bellator, last year they got rid of their final division, and now here we are. We're back, and we're back at 145, which is interesting because, of course, that division is not in the UFC, and it's not a major division for Invicta. Why are you getting back into the women's M.A. business? I think that if you look at our past,

we've always believed in female fighting. I mean, whether it was back in the kickboxing days on ESPN, we were the first company, well, not we, but, you know, I was the first person to do female fighting in the state of California in mixed martial arts, which was the Corona versus Elena Maxwell fight. And then, you know, we did some big fights.

I mean, Rhonda fought for strike force. And at the end of the day, I believe in it. that, look, this is something that, you know, we were the pioneers behind female mixed martial arts. And we were the pioneers of females fighting and kickboxing in California. And so it just seems like such a natural fit. And we started getting contacted by some of the top camps around the world and saying, hey, you know, Marlis is available. She would like to come. And then Julia Budd became available.

And right now I know that we're talking to two other girls right now that hopefully we'll have on board. soon. Oh, who are they? Well, I can't tell us. I can't say. Okay, all right. Top, top secret. But I'm serious, no, but I'm serious, no, Aero. You know, we've always believed in it.

I always thought that, look, I grew up in a martial arts school, and next to you would be, you know, kids and females and everybody's trained together. And I just think that, you know, there's, it shouldn't be separated. And I think that, you know, we set the tone. We set the, you know, the precedent. And then look with, look how popular it's become. today. I mean, female fighting is, you know, it's definitely proven that it can have star power and can draw big gates and big ratings. And at the end of the day, I really believe that the female division will be a needle mover for us. Are you sticking with just 145, or will you be adding

other divisions? We're going to add another division, but that might be in the next three or four months, and it'll be in a lighter weight. Which one? I can't say. Okay. So since you bring in the 145 is obviously the two biggest names you know them very well you you promoted that fight cyborg and gina is it true that you have had some talks with genus camp about bringing her to bellator we've had uh one one quick conversation with um brett and and scott and uh and that was it and it was just one quick conversation and you know there was nothing really made of it and i think that gina wants to fight at 35 okay uh and as far a cyborg uh we we haven't talked to her because she's on the contract fighting in the victim, but if she ever becomes available, then we'll have a conversation

with her. So it doesn't seem like Gina to Beltaur is going to happen. 135 would mean going to the UFC, right? Well, we don't have a 135 division, and, you know, I can't say what she's going to do or what she's not going to do because, you know, she's got commitments for films and she's very busy, and, you know, she has a good acting career, so, you know, it's going to be really up to her and her schedule. Okay.

You know, you have this season starting on September 5th, and to me, you have a season, you know, it kind of feels a little lame duck because you say 18 months I want to see what happens this season was already in place and it doesn't seem like it's the vision that you have for the future going week to week to week

is that accurate? I mean once this season is over are you going to go to a more traditional strike force like schedule? Well, first of all I disagree with you on the lame duck fight because look at the September 5th card. I mean we have fights on there that you know that will

you know that every that every hardcore fan will want to see, as well as the casual fan, we'll want to see, with, you know, Kern and Pitbull and, and then,

you know, King Mo and Czech Congo, and then, you know, running off with Bobby Lashley, I think our TV, our TV side of that card is going to be a fantastic card. So,

you know, I think it's going to be, that fight card right there, what could have been an old fight, a strike force fight card. But going into next year, yeah, we're going to take a step back,

and we're not going to go week to week to week to week. I think it's very difficult to promote and be an effective promoter, especially on the live event side, to go week-to-week like that. So we're going to take a step back. We're going to go to a format that does fights. We're going to do fights once a month. And then three or four times a year, we're going to do big tent pole events, which will be in the bigger arenas and have all the top needle movers on there.

So does that mean around 15 or so events, or the three or so events? Is that part of the 12? We're going to have 16 events next year. 16. Now, when you mention those events, are any of those pay-per-view? Right now, we're going to go into, we're going to bring it back to Spike TV, and we had a conversation about that with Kevin the other day, and we both agreed that, look, let's put them in front of 100 million homes, potential households, and let's grow this property on Spike.

Will there be a time for pay-per-view? Yes. I think the last pay-per-view was fantastic. I think the ratings or the buy rates are great. But, you know, when you can have, you know, 100,000, 200,000, 300,000 people watching your product, why not have a million five or, you know, three million people watching your product? To me, it's going to be an ad sales-driven product and sponsorship-driven product.

And, you know, I think that that's a way to go for us in the near future. Are the tournaments done? No, absolutely not. you know, you know I love tournaments. You were the first guy who sent that heavyweight tournament to. Yes, I know, but not this frequently where it gets all confusing. There's like two contender. I mean, it was getting to be a lot to handle.

Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, here's what comes down to. We'll put on the tournaments when we're ready. But what that tournament looks like, I'm going to leave it open because I'm going to keep our options open. You know we did that fantastic heavyweight Grand Prix. Yeah. But we also did the tournament that Misha. Tate won, which was a four female tournament all the same night, as well as the one that

we did in San Jose with the middleweights all in one night. So we've done in many different ways, and I've got to sit down with Kevin and everybody here in the office and we'll decide what that tournament looks like. But to say we're getting out of the tournament business, I would say is incorrect, but we will have maybe a different look, a different feel, to what we're going to do as far as tournaments in the future of this company. So only when it is warranted, when it's a big deal, not just

to create the next contend. You don't have to, basically don't have to win a tournament to get a title shot anymore. That is correct. We're going to be the star building and put on big superfight business. Speaking of which, are you interested in Kimbo-Slice? Am I interested in Kimbo-Sle-Sleash? You know what? I think that there was a conversation

that one of our matchmakers had with him, but I think he's pretty much done. I think he's retired. I'm not sure what his position is, but I don't think that there was any interest. Two of your biggest names, Rampage Jackson Titori's, Rampage seemed a little lukewarm on you when the news first came out. Have you had a chance to talk to him, patch things up,

and what do you think is next for him? Well, you know what? He doesn't have a fight scheduled right now. He told me that he street Googled me, and he's checking me out. It seems like you have a good rep, right? It seems like the results came up well. I'm getting street cred now. Yeah, look at you.

Who would have funk it? But at the end of the day, you know what? I'm getting to know him, and you know what? It's been an interesting conversation, and the guy has a lot of us played right now. He just opened a new gym, and he's got all these other business opportunities, and he's a brand in itself. But we'll have that conversation when the time is right about getting him back in the cage. Okay, so you think, though, that he will fight for you. Like, he's not going anywhere, right?

Yeah, he's not going anywhere. What about Tito? Tito's great. He's in Thailand training right now. You love Tito, right? Yeah, Tito and I've had a good relationship for a long time. So he's in Thailand training right now, and we actually don't have the fight set date set for him either yet, but hopefully we'll have something to announce in the next week or so.

What about the opponent? Same thing. His fight's not set. Oh, okay. You know, you guys, you were very quick to release War Machine after. everything that happened with him, which you deserve, I think, a lot of credit for that. You needed to do that. Was that a no-brainer?

Did you guys have a discussion to maybe wait and see what happens? What was the thought process there and releasing him right away before all the details even came out? Yeah, I mean, I was getting details. Okay. Probably a little quicker than some people, but, you know, when we saw what happened, you know, we said that's it. We're not going to be associated with that. and, you know, I feel for his girlfriend,

and, you know, I think they just caught him yesterday or the day before. Friday. So I think that, you know, he's got a lot of other things to worry about other than fighting. And, you know, that's pretty much what I have to say. What are you going to do about the whole Will Chandler, Michael, oh, Will Chandler, Will Brooks, Michael Chandler, and Eddie is a part of that picture as well. That's the whole lightweight title picture.

What are you going to do there? once we figure out the eddie piece of this then we'll figure out the other part of that so it could go

a couple different ways but right now we can't make one move or another until you know we figure this other part out

but like I said I think that that that's something that will happen you know hopefully this week you know speaking of which

we had always heard from managers from fighters off the record people talking the morale seemed very low it seemed like

a lot of people just for whatever reason weren't a fan of working for Bjorn Rebney. What was your take? When you started to take the temperature of the roster, of the office, of the employees, were you shocked to hear about how unhappy people were, how unhappy they were working for this guy,

doing deals with him? I mean, what was the like coming in? They were replacing, because that's why I thought this was so interesting. You have a very good reputation. You're the kind of promoter, which is somewhat rare in combat sports, where people seem to want to root for you and see you succeed. And one of the things that I thought was holding back

from a PR perspective from a, you know, a perspective of wanting to root for the company was Bjorn, people just, for whatever reason, didn't like the guys. So what was it like when you actually started to hear the war stories from behind the scenes? You know, there's definitely some war stories here, but, you know, I can't really comment on that because I didn't know Bjorn. I never met him. You know, we had that one incident with, uh, when he had Eddie and he called me on the Gilbert Melendez thing. Yes. Which I would probably handle differently, but it is what it is and you know I'm not going to worry about that and when I when I came in here I just wanted to the staff know look there's tremendous opportunity here and you know we know we know what we're

doing you guys know what you're doing Spike TV knows what it's doing together we're going to go do this and you know it changed the philosophy of maybe how we all worked it changed the dynamics of how we all worked together but you know it's it's something that I didn't even think about I just looked at like an opportunity because with Spike TV saying look you know Kevin K. pretty much saying, hey, look, you know, we want you to run this thing, and we believe in you, and here's the parameters of what we can't do what we can't do, and here's the budgets, go do your thing. And I said, fantastic, you know, turn me loose.

Because the one thing I can guarantee, you know, you know where to find Spike, you know where to find Spike, MMA, I mean Spike TV, you know where to find Bellator. It's on Spike TV every Friday night at 9 o'clock. and the one thing the spike is the Bellator will always have is you know it'll have a TV deal as long as Viacom wants to have it because they own the network. So to me it was reassuring. I said, okay, these guys are committed.

They want to double down, sort of speak, on MMA, and then now it's my job to go push this train forward. Bjorn reach out to you when this all happened. I mean, this was his baby, and it's got to be tough. good or bad person, it's got to be tough to see it go away to someone else, right? You know, he didn't. And I'll tell you, I would love to have a conversation if you ever wanted to have one. I'd just tell them, you know, from my perspective.

But let's talk about this. I mean, you know, hey, I sold strike force to the U.S.C. Yeah. And there's no more strike force, right? And so that, you know, it makes me sad in a lot of different ways. But in this situation, at least he could always be the founder of Bellator, and it will continue to live and thrive and has, you know, great ownership that own networks. And, you know, I think with our know how here, we're going to push us to the next level

and he'll have something to be proud about, you know, for years to come. By the way, I've been dying to talk to you since your contract expired with Zufa because when you were doing those, you know, when strike forces being run by Zufa, it was very tough to speak to you because you knew that we couldn't really talk about everything and your hands were somewhat tied. But now looking back from when it was announced that the company was being sold and you had to work for them for three years and they kind of turned your strike force into something else, how difficult was that for you?

Would you have preferred to just walk away and not be involved with the new strike force? Did that add insult to injury? No, not at all. I don't look at it like that. I mean, to me, I think the hardest part of the company was the dismantlement of the fighter roster. And then also, you know, the staff, the staff leaving. I think those are the two hard things. And, you know, it takes a long time to put that fighter roster together.

And I think we had an amazing, I mean, look at who's fighting in the UFC today. I mean, a lot of their top talent is guys that came up through a strike force. Or there were our stars that are fighting over there. So, you know, to me, it's a validation and not an insult as to what we did, what we accomplished, and, you know, what's happening today. and, you know, we're going to bring that over here, and we're going to bring that philosophy over here, and we're going to build it over here.

Was there any talk of you sticking around after the contract expired and working in some capacity with them? No, there was not. Were you happy about that? I would say this. I think that, you know, they have a very good operation. They know what they're doing. They're very smart people, and they're very good to me, Ariel.

They did everything they said they were going to do. They did, and they honored their word on every front. And so, you know, I felt good about that. But, you know, I live in the Bay Area, and, you know, they operate everything in Las Vegas. And it just, and I wasn't going to move. And there was just really, I mean, we all do, I think, at the end of the day that, you know, after the three years was over, that, you know, I was going to stay in the Bay Area. And they're going to keep doing their thing. And who knew at that point what I really wanted to do.

So, you know, I would say that's kind of the picture of how it went down. Is Belator moving to the Bay Area? Beltor is not moving to Bay Area Okay Beltor is here in Orange County And we have these palatial offices You should come down a visit sometime It's amazing

You know back to the day I wasn't really I wasn't invited I wasn't a favorite of Bjorn So this is the first for me To be actually invited Well you should come down Because these offices are amazing

I walked in here and I said Holy moly these These offices are like Five times as big as Strike Force offices And they're palatial It's one of the nicest Buildings in Of any MMA company

That I've been to So how are you going to do? as far as, you know, your roots are home, Bay Area, companies in California, you know, in Southern California, what are you going to do? Well, it's an hour flight. Okay. And I just been commuting back and forth. All right.

And I'm down here Monday through Thursday and come home for the weekends. Okay. And, you know, that's kind of how I've been doing it for the last two months. You brought in Rich Chow, who I'm a very big fan of. He's a matchmaker. And Sam Kaplan, he announced that his contract has expired. Are you bringing in any other former strike? force employees?

Right now, no. That's it. The staff that you see here is the staff that will be here. And I thought Rich was a great opportunity for us to pick him up and have him and bring his brain trust to this company. And Kerry, who's been with us for 15 years, she's very good at what she does. So she's going to be a part of this. But there's a lot of good people here.

a hardworking people here. So this is where it's at. I'm working out of Irvine, California. And like I said, it's an hour flight. It's like a commute to San Francisco. If I was driving, I had to work in San Francisco from San Jose. It'd be an hour drive, and so it's pretty much the same type of commute. There's a fighter on the roster named Frodo Kasbulayev.

I don't know if you're familiar with his situation, but he actually tweeted to me late last week saying that he'd like to be released because he hasn't been able to fight due to visa issues, and he was supposed to get a title shot, et cetera, et cetera. Are you familiar with his story? Will he be released? Yes, I'm familiar with the story. And, you know, it was actually something that was brought to my attention

probably a month before he came out and was asking for the release. And here's my thought on it. We're looking to see if we can fix the visa situation and really find out, you know, if there's absolutely no way that he can come into America. And, you know, once we figure that out, then we'll make a decision based on that information provided by the government. your next fight card is September 5th and that's the same night as a UFC also taking place in the same state 10 miles apart mohigan sun for Bellator and

and Foxwoods for the UFC what do you make of this situation and interestingly enough I just want to know you guys announced recently that you were moving back the start time to knock on side with the main card of the UFC did you do that because you don't want to be combative or confrontational or did you think that was I mean what what what is the thinking there in terms of moving? moving it back, and also being in the same state on the same day as the UFC? Well, boy, there's a lot of different questions in that one sentence. So let's start with...

Let's start with the start time. Why did you move it back? Yeah, that was a television decision. Okay. So, you know, that was something that Spike TV wanted to do, and I think it's great. It's going to be a good show. We'll get started an hour earlier. Yeah. And it's... I think that now the fans can see both shows. And I think that it'll be a great night of action for MMA fans, you know, tuning in.

Did Belator go to Connecticut on the same day to go head to head with the UFC? Or if they didn't, do you believe the UFC did this to go head to head with Belator? You know what? I just believe it's a scheduling issue. Look, we both have businesses to run. I believe that, from what I understand, Belator had already done the deal. But what they didn't know was, and this was before. I got here. But what they did know

was the UFC was talking to Foxwood. So I think it's just a coincidence. But what I want to know, Aero, is which one are you going to go to? Oh, wow. Look at you putting me on the spot. Well, it is a Fox Sports One event, and I do work proudly for Fox Sports One, so maybe unfortunately for you, fortunately for me,

I will be at Foxwoods covering the UFC event. How do you feel about that? We can always sneak over. Yeah. Oh, you're going to do a sneak attack. Like the old WCW? Oh, well, I don't know. How about you come to the UFC event afterwards? I'm sure they'd welcome you with open arms. Well, you know what? That's something that if I,

if, you know, after the press conference and, you know, if we don't have any other meetings and then I can think of it, hey, that event looks like a Strike Force event to me. Yeah. Gagher Mosashi fighting, Jacaree, Alice Rovee fighting, Ben Wathwell. Yeah. You know, it looks like

a part of my old regime there. I like that you still keep tabs on the UFC. Of course. I mean, look, I'm a fan. I love martial arts. And to me, It was something that, you know, why wouldn't I? They've got great fighters. They've got great fights, and I'm a fan. I buy the pay-per-views.

Still. Still, so you're very different than the guy you succeeded, because Bjorn said he no longer bought the paper views. Yeah, I don't believe in that. Look, this is a martial arts industry, and we're all contributing into this industry as a whole. And, you know, believe me, having Spike TV and Vicon behind martial arts and, you know, having 150 people on the fighter roster

and supporting all the people that are working here. I mean, you're helping the industry, and really, to me, this has been a lifelong martial arts journey. And, you know, I'm proud to continue it and be, you know, with Spike TV and Bellator. It's going to be, I think, a great opportunity. I think we're going to create a big impact. And, you know, it's something that in 18 months,

months, two years, you'll see a much, much different property. Five more quick minutes with you. Let me ask you this. If you were in charge, would you have handled the Ben Ascreen situation the way it was handled? Would you have let him go? You know, I don't know all the details on that, but, you know, so I really can't comment, but so I'm not, I don't. Will you try to get him back when he's a free agent? Are you interested in him? I think I think I had to talk to Rich and Zach and see what the situation is. Because Honestly, I know, I've seen a fight a couple of times, but I haven't followed his whole career that much. And I know he's over at 1FC, and he seems to be happy there, so I wish him luck.

Do you know when Paul Daly will return? Yes, Paul, pending his September 12th fight in London, if he's okay, we're going to be fighting him in mid-November here in America. Do you know against two? Come on, give us something. I can tell you the fight that I'd like to put together. Okay, tell us, tell us. You know, we had a conversation with Melvin Madoff about dropping down in weight. So I'd like to put Madoff versus Daly together.

But isn't Madoff fighting Doug Marshall? Yeah, so if he doesn't get hurt, Paul doesn't get hurt, he'll put that fight together. Okay, interesting. You know who I'm really high on? I enjoy this man very much. He's also another Englishman, Michael Page. You know this guy? MVP.

Very exciting. you're going to return? You know what? I'd have to talk to Rich and get back to you, but soon I call him the Michael Jackson of MS. He is very entertaining. I like him. He had a great performance. He's very entertaining. Those are the fighters that I love, and those are the fighters that we try to book in Strike Force fighters that had character, fighters that had personalities, fighters that we could build off of. And, you know, I'm looking forward to getting him back in the cage and for him to grow and prospering. in our league and become a star.

Who's on the Scott Coker free agent wish list? If you can go out and put these guys on your roster and secure them and build with them the company, who would that be? Well, my first free agent I'd sign is Arrow Hawani. Yeah, well, I don't know if my services are available. He could invite Anthony here in the office. Oh, I would take Anthony down. I would lay the smackdown on Anthony.

Although he's got a great beard, I'll give him that. No, I mean, you know what? How I look at it is maybe a little different than some other people because to me it's not, you know, you could be a great fighter, but, you know, we want you to be a great entertainer as well. We're looking for personalities. We're looking for characters. And we're looking for some of the best talent in the world. So as free agents become available, we're going to talk to them, but we're not going to be, you know, getting involved in any kind of conversations before that. Would you be interested in Mayhem Miller?

Boy, that's a touchy. That takes me right back to the CBS event. Yeah, yeah, that's true. Boy, I'm starting to shake over here. Well, you know, he said he's coming back, and he does have a history with Viacom. I know he's very controversial, but... You know, I'll tell you, it's worth a conversation. Okay.

Because, you know, everybody deserves to have a second chance, but, you know, he's a great fighter, believe me. It's just, I just hope he's okay. And if he's okay, then, you know, we could take a more serious step. But the first step would be, you know, is he okay? That's really what it comes down to. Okay, here's my final question. After peppering you with questions for the last 40 minutes, and I appreciate the time very much.

A few weeks ago, on this very show, we had a guy by the name of Paul Heyman on the show. You know him, right? Yes. He told us a fascinating story about meeting you, doing some, he was going to do some PR for your Grand Prix show in New Jersey. And in that conversation, he said that he told you that he thought the UFC was going to try to buy the organization,

and he said that you got spooked, quote unquote, and then just kind of fell off the face of the earth, didn't contact him, and you really haven't talked since. Why is that? What happened between you and Paul? Because you guys had a relationship. Yeah, Paul, we're going to hire Paul to do marketing efforts in New York, and I like Paul, and he's doing, he actually did some amazing stuff with EA sports.

Yep. He did those pieces with Cungley and Frank Shamrock, and I think that Fador was, was part of that. But he did some great work. And so we're going to hire him. And then we started talking. And what he said on your show is absolutely correct. And to me, at that point, we were already down the road with Zufi, and I was like, oh, is there a leak going on here? I told my partners about it. And, you know, they just

said, hey, you need to step back. And that's what I did. But I do a phone call. Paul, I apologize. I owe you a call. And the next cream barbecues on me. Yes, you were at a Korean barbecue restaurant. You remember that. He mentioned that. You can come to the next one. I wasn't invited. I got some great cream barbecue. Okay, fair enough. Scott, we have taken up all your time.

Thank you very much. Good luck with everything. The next Bellator event, September 5th. Very close to here in Connecticut at the Mohegan Sun. Keep us posted on Eddie Avres. You left us hanging with that one, so we're still going to pepper you with questions, but we look forward to seeing what you're going to do

in the next 18 months to two years with Bellator, and I think you're the man for the job. So best of luck to you. We wish you well. And we hope that now you can come on the show more often, like the old days because we've missed you. Well, I tell you, I appreciate that and I will. And I'm going to tell you one thing, Errol,

I got a top secret thing that I'm working on, just like that heavyweight tournament. Yeah? The idea that I share with you. Yes. But I'm not going to share with you until I see you a person. I'll show you on my iPad. Fair enough.

And you know I can keep a secret, right? Pardon me? You know I can keep a secret. Yes. I do know that you did keep that secret, so I have to give it to you. All right. I appreciate it. Thank you, Scott. All the best.

All right, buddy. All right, there he is. Scott Coker, the president of Bellator MMA stopping by, was hoping to gain some kind of clarity on the whole Eddie Alvarez situation, but it sounds like the end might be near. In the sense that we might know, will he have a future? Will he not have a future with Belator? I think it's time to figure that situation out.

I mean, what is taking so long, right? It sounds like he's close to being 100% that he's healthy, so what is taking so long? Let's just know if the guy's going to fight one more time or not. But you have to understand, I mean, jumping into a situation like that, when you got contracts, people unhappy, you got this season, 12-week season, which seems like a hellacious amount of fights to book in a very short amount of time. You have to understand that, I get it. It takes some time. That to me seems like the biggest one. But interesting stuff. Doesn't seem like he's all that interested in Kimbo's Slice. It doesn't seem like Gina is going over there.

So hopefully you found that that was educational enough. And it's good to hear from Scott. It's been a while. All right. Let us move along. The UFC is back in Macau this Saturday. It's an early start, 6.30 a.m. on the fight pass.

That's the prelims. And then the main card is also on fight pass. And that kicks off at 9 a.m. Eastern time. Now, the main event is Michael Bisping versus a guy that Scott Koker knows very well, Kung Lee, and the co-main event. And this in my opinion, I know it's very critical of the word co-main event. This in my opinion is the – this is a proper co-main event. You can call this a co-main event, in my opinion.

This is Dung Young Kim, who is coming off that great win over John Hathaway in March against Tyron Woodley. Now, Tyrone Woodley last fought in June, so not that long ago. ago. He fought Rory McDonald, if you recall, in Vancouver, British Columbia at UFC 174, and he lost that fight. And a lot of people thought that a win over Rory could put him maybe one win away afterwards from being the top contender in the 170-pound division. It was not a great performance by Tyron Woodley. And afterwards, UFC President Dana White even said that he thought that he choked in the fight. Why do I bring all this up? Well, one of the guys who is a part of the first, of team Tyrone Woodley is a guy by the name of Dean Thomas. Dean Thomas retired from mixed

martial arts not that long ago. He last fought in April of 2013, lost to Georgie Carcannian at Legacy Fighting Championships 19. And this is a guy who've been in the UFC. He has had a pretty solid career. I mean, made his MMA debut back in 1998. And he retired after UFC 168 saying that What he saw happen to Anderson Silva and Josh Barnett put a light on in his mind, you know, I don't want that to happen to me. I don't want to get brutally knocked out. I don't want to see my leg snap. I want to go out on my terms.

So what he did was start a scouting service, if you will, where fighters can hire him to say, all right, I'm fighting Fighter X next week. I want you to give me, or not next week, maybe in a couple months. I want you to give me a scouting report on this guy. The same thing that you would see in other sports. Baseball scouts, you'll send out a guy to scout a prospect, an opponent, et cetera, et cetera. So he wanted to be in many ways like a Mike Dolce for scouting. Fighters hire him, and he would put together the report to help you train for the fight,

maybe even be in your corner. And thus far, it seems to be doing quite well for him. One of his clients is Dean, excuse me, is Tyron Woodley, and he's in Macau with him right now, getting ready for that fight on Saturday, and he's joining us via The Magic of Skype, where it is very late or early, depending on your sleeping habits. There he is right there. Dean Thomas, joining us from beautiful Macau, China. Dean, how are you?

I'm good, man. What's going on? Hey, I really appreciate you coming on the show. It's 2 a.m. Tuesday morning in Macau. How tired are you right now? I'm not that tired. You know, my sleeping pattern has been jacked up for a while now because I spent a lot of time in Germany and being in the States and now I'm here in Asia. So I'm used to kind of just being around and not really sleeping on any type of set pattern anyway.

Okay, well, I appreciate that very much. How was Macau, by the way? I saw you tweeting about Hong Kong. It seems like you're a big fan. I mean, what's it like being there? And is there any kind of buzz for the U? I mean, gigantic place, millions and millions of people. What kind of buzz is there for the UFC?

Well, right now, you know, we just got here in Hong Kong. The buzz for the UFC hasn't really been, I haven't really seen it yet. But just being here in Hong Kong is crazy. Like, I've never seen any place like this. Like, to me it makes New York City look like a small city. I mean, it's just buildings, like the height and how they expand, the buildings is just, is massive. I've never seen anything like this. I'm sure that we go to Macau.

Wednesday, and that's what the UFC is. Okay. So I'm sure that the buzz will be a little, a little bit more intense, the closer we get to Macau. Okay. My apologies, I thought you were in Macau already. You're in Hong Kong now. Good to know. Great view and back of you. We appreciate that very much. So you're with Tyron Woodley, and, you know, I want to get into his fight specifically in a second. But it wasn't all that long ago that you announced that you were retiring and that you were going to start this scouting service, if you will, where fighters can, you know, approach you, hire you to put together a scouting report. And I found this to be fascinating. Few months in, how's it going this far? Do you have a lot of clients? Do you feel like this is benefiting fighters? Is your track record proving to be a good one? I mean, what's going on with it? How is it progressing? Man, you know, I think it's a great service.

The track record is proven, you know, I've won a lot more fights than we've lost. And the fights that we've lost, I can pretty much pinpoint why, you know, maybe the guy just wasn't able to do it. Maybe he didn't listen to the report and was thinking on his own like, you know, good, you know, I'm better than this guy,

just naturally better. And sometimes that's the case. Sometimes guys can be naturally better and just win fights just on being better, more physical. But the reality is that if you're smarter and you know what's going – It's like playing cards and knowing what the other guy's got in his hands. So – and the reason why we came up with this idea of me and Roli Delgado was the fact that Roli told me he was scouted once and got knocked out because of it. And then when I looked at my career, I realized that, you know, I was losing because guys were scouting me. So, and I wasn't really doing much about it.

So, you know, I think that the service that we offer is great. I don't think there's anybody who watches more film than me when it comes to watching a guy and studying and breaking a guy down. I watch, you know, just watch fights over and over different guys and put together the game plan for guys and help them out. Right now, the majority of my clients are ATT guys just because, you know, they know me and they trust me. And I think that that might have been an issue, actually, is that most guys probably wouldn't want to be. put trust in an outside source. But because I'm an outside source, I think it's even more beneficial because I'm going to be impartial and I'm going to tell you like it is. So you're not affiliated with the ATT guys. In other words, if I'm fighting a guy who's not a client of yours but

is a member of ATT, you'll still take the job? Or is that weird? I don't know. I don't think I would scout an ATT guy. I couldn't do that. Okay. That's the only thing that I kind of stay away from his scouting ATT guys or I don't scout guys that I've already worked for. Yeah. So like I worked for Jordan Mean. I actually did his report

for Jordan Mean against Hernani Perpetuo and I wouldn't scout him for Tiago Alvas actually when Tiago was scheduled to fight. And Tiago is a good friend of mine but I wouldn't do that to Jordan Meen for that reason. But won't that prove to be troublesome

in the future because the more clients you get the more fights you start to scout, but that's going to start knocking off a lot of people off the list, right? Yeah. I think by that time I may have moved on to another business. Okay. All right, fair enough. But for now, I'm having a good time with it.

And after doing this and watching fights and studying, I'm a lot better, a lot better of a coach now because of it. And are you in their corner all the time, or sometimes you just give the scouting report and then walk away? The majority of times I just give the scouting report and walk away. way and I leave it up to them or to coach if they want me to add on to it I will I don't have a problem with that a lot of the guys that I work with in Germany Daniel wichel for example I coached I did scouting reports for him through the whole featherweight tournament which he just

decimated everybody in it but I didn't go to any of the fights I worked with him and I did the reports for him and all the fights he made them look easy so break it down for me let's say I'm fighter X I'm going to fight at UFC 182 and if few months and I come to you. I'm not fighting an ATT guy. I've, you know, I'm not fighting a guy that you've worked with before. A fresh, you know, a clean slate here. And I say, Dean, I want you to prepare a scouting report on my opponent, Mr. Y. What are you giving me? How long does it take for you to put this together? And what am I getting in return from you? What I'll do is I'll take the opponent and I'll watch as many videos as I can of him as far as fights, interviews,

I'll research his background, what his mentality is like, and I'll let you know how tough of a person he is. And then I go through all his fights. I look for, I mean, I go back as far as I can because the one thing I know about fighting is that bad habits are hard to break. And some people say, oh, yeah, the fights from five years ago aren't relevant, but they're very relevant because if a guy's been making a mistake for the last five years, it's very unlikely that he's going to be able to correct that within the next couple of months. So I go back as far as I can all fights, and I watch each fight, you know, sometimes. up to four times over and over and over and then I go through and I have a template that we use kind of a blueprint that Roli Delgado came up with on just questions that we answer and just different things that we look for when it comes to the fight so the guys can prepare better and then you know depending on what service you all that you want to get sometimes we come up with the game plan for you sometimes you don't want that or sometimes and sometimes I even make videos to help you with different things. drills and exercises that you can use in order to prepare. Wow, that's very interesting.

Now, who are your clients right now? Can you tell us, I don't know if you want to keep any of them a secret, but who are the ones that you can actually share? Well, recently I've been working. I did work a lot with Robbie. I did Robbie's last couple of fights. Oh. Obviously, Tyrant. I did Merced Bectic.

I've been working with Cole Miller. Jordanian? Yeah, Jordanian. I did the guys from MMA spirit in Germany. And a couple of the other guys, you know, some guys would prefer me not to say anything just so that our opponents don't get all nervous. But these guys that I just named off aren't really too concerned with that. Are you expensive? Right now I'm actually doing Gleeks and Chee-Bow.

I'm going to do a Peter Holman for Gleeks and Chee-Bow. And also what we do too is, and I'm pretty sure you're aware of the report that what's his name, Lawrence Ken Shaw. I think that's his name on Tyron Woodley. We actually do those two where we look at, say, your fighter X, and you want to report doing on you to see what your opponents are looking at. Oh, interesting. We actually, well, yeah. So, you know, in Tyrant's case, I mean, it actually, you know, my hat's off to those guys.

I mean, they had him figured out. I mean, obviously that wasn't the game plan. But like I said, some bad habits are hard to break. So that was kind of a wake-up call for him to say, you know what, I can't fight like this no more. Are you expensive? Are we expensive? Yeah. No, I don't think so. I mean, in the grand

scheme of things, I mean, if you're an amateur fighter, it's probably going to be expensive for you, but for like a UFC guy who's making you know, five digits, it's not expensive at all. Okay, so let's talk about Tyron. I mean, as I mentioned, he's coming off a loss. It's a very important fight for him because he was so close

to really being in that select top contender category. And, you know, Dana White, you know, he doesn't mince words. He said that he thought he choked in that fight against Roy McDonald. And it didn't seem like your typical Tyron Woodley fight, at least the fights that we've seen out of him for the last few going into that fight against Rory. So what went wrong?

From a scouting perspective, from a coach perspective, what went wrong there in Vancouver? Well, first of all, like I said before, I think that Rory and him, they did a good job of scouting him on basically on how he fights for the most part. They did a really good job, you know, scouting him and really shutting him down. That obviously wasn't the game plan. I think what it came down to was when it came time to perform what we wanted to perform. He just wasn't there. I mean, I think Tyrant, more than anything else, is he's a performer and an artist.

And sometimes you're an artist, you need that motivation to perform that best of your ability. And he wasn't able to it around. You know, Tyrant isn't the type of guy like, you know, a Matt Brown, Robbie Lawler, who just, you know, those guys would be fighting in the street if they didn't have this opportunity to fight in a cage.

Tyrant's not that type. He's an athlete and a performer. And he just wasn't able to perform. He just wasn't his night. Did you think that there was a channel? Like, did this totally blow you away the performance that he had? Or did you think that this maybe was a bad matchup for Roy? Were you afraid that this, excuse me for Tyron against Roy?

Were you afraid that this might happen? No, I wasn't afraid it would happen. I thought it was a great matchup for Tyrant. I still think that Tyrant is a better fight. I think that on any given night, when Tyron performs at the best of his ability, I think he's the best Walter weight in the world. It's just a matter of him showing up and doing it and proving it to himself. And sometimes he can overthink things.

And like any other fighter, you know, sometimes we'd find him. think a little too much or sometimes we let the pressure get to us. You know, Dana White, he's a tough boss to us for it. I mean, he puts a lot of pressure on you. And, you know, if you're not that type of guy like the Matt Brown, you know, Clay Greta type guy who just doesn't care about how you look, then, you know, it can sometimes have an effect on your performance. How long have you guys been in Asia for?

We got in Asia on last Wednesday. Is that enough time to get acclimated to the time? difference in your opinion? Like I said, my time has been screwed up, so I really don't know how long it takes to get acclimated to any one area right now. I would, but, you know, but when I used to fight, you know, the first couple times I fought in Japan, I never was really acclimated, but, you know, when it's time for that walkout, you don't even think about the time.

It's not like something you go, oh, you start yawning and go, you know what, I'm tired. I want to go to bed. I think that by the time the fight comes the adrenaline and Bert yells out, we roll us. You know, time doesn't matter. That's all irrelevant. But as a coach, you're not concerned at all. I mean, he's going to be fighting at around 10 a.m. You know, here on the East Coast, 9 a.m. where he's from in the Central Times Zone.

So is there any concern about that? No, that's not really going to be a concern of mine. I think that, in fact, you know, tyrants used to getting them workouts in in the morning like that. So I don't think that's going to be an issue. So what's the breakdown on Dung Young Kim? You're the guy. I'm sure you did a report. Give us the goods.

Yeah. You know, to think, the funny thing about it was I start, actually I work with, you know, every chance I get, I try to work with Hector when he allows me to. But I started studying Dung Young Kim for Hector. Oh, wow. And I was actually studying him during the time the Tyron was fighting Rory. So I've been studying Dung Young Kim for a long time. And he has evolved as a fighter as most fighters do. But the thing about him is he's gotten a lot more reckless and a little bit more unpredictable.

but, you know, there's a lot of holes and there's going to be a lot of opportunities for Tyron to take advantage of. And again, I think this is a good match-up for Tyron. And I don't think Dunyong Kim should make it out the second round. Wow. How do you see it ending? I think Tyron's going to knock him out. Now, what kind of holes?

Obviously, it seems like his striking is suspect, in your opinion. What kind of holes do you see? Well, he's got, you know, he just gets a little wild. and reckless. And I think he's at the point now in his career where he is definitely trying to fight more for the fans and the audience and he wants to really try to promote himself as a, as a entertainer and a scrappy fighter. And he's done a good job of it. I mean, the way he fought John Hathaway and Eric Silva, I mean, he went right at those guys, but he was very reckless and he left a lot, he left a lot of openings for himself. And then I think tyrant's going to be able to capitalize on.

We've worked on a lot of different ways to get inside and how to do things. And, you know, it should be, you know, but Dungan Kim is dangerous, though. I mean, don't get me wrong. I can't take nothing away from him. He is a Jewish fighter. I mean, it's evident in his record. He's 19 and 2. He's beating a lot of good guys.

But, like I said, he knows how to win, but he leaves a lot of openings. Fight Pass must be great for you. Now you have everything there. Do you subscribe to that? Oh, of course. Yeah, that was the first thing I did when, you know, Once I realized how much footage is on FightPass, I just, and I'm pretty much on Fight Pass all day long. It's funny, because if you would have done this like three years ago, I feel like it would have been a lot harder because the UFC made their clips very hard to find if someone would upload it, they would delete it.

They would make it very difficult. So this, I don't know if this job could actually happen unless you get your fighter to request the footage from the UFC, but now it's just all at your fingertips. You know what I mean? it must have been it must have been almost impossible for a fight like when you were fighting and of course

the internet wasn't where it was today but it was hard back then to find footage on your opponent right? Oh yeah I mean it was very difficult the UFC makes it kind of easy they used to make it

and they would give you the footage and up until recently they just started making everybody do fight pass but they would give you the footage but even with the footage that they give you they give you like a certain amount of times that you were able to actually

upload the footage. So it was difficult to get it. They would give you a lot of stuff, but it was difficult to get it. Especially like for younger fighters, too, that have them fought on the UFC, you know, when some of these guys could reach out to me

and say, hey, can you help me out with, you know, so-and-so, you know, I'm not at that high of a level, and I help them out. And finding footage on guys is tough sometimes. So it does make the job kind of hard. Are you officially done with MMA? You'll never fight again.

I want to say that. Oh, in fact, yeah. Yeah, I want to say, yeah, I want to say that. The problem is, is it every time I go somewhere and I start training, like I was training with, we were out here with Ben Ascran, and I'm training with him, and I'm like, man, I want to train, I want to fight again, but then I just, by the nighttime,

or at least the next morning when I wake up and I can't get out of bed, I go, what was I thinking? I don't even know what I was thinking. Why was I thinking about ever fighting again? But the itch is still there? Sometimes. Sometimes I still get the itch because I look at these guys. and, you know, they have an opportunity that I don't think that I had when I was coming up.

Don't get me wrong, I had my opportunities, but I think that they're in a unique position now to make a lot more money and get a lot more exposure than I even had when I was coming up. And I look at them and I go, you know what, I wish I could have fought those guys in my prime posted now. Maybe you could get that myorgia fight. I know. I know I could get that because he can't fight a lit. Man, you ever think about that? mean, that was so close to happening. Yeah, every once in a while I think about, you know, the opportunity that I have for that. You know, it was so close to happening.

And I will, you know what really made me mad about that? Was it, you know, that would have been like the first time an MMA fighter fought a big-time boxer. It didn't happen. And then, like, two months later, Randy Couture chokes out James Tony and Randy Cotor gets all the credit for established, you know, MMA's dominance over boxing. That should have been me. I'm still mad and ran. That should have been me.

What about the dance after the Jeremy Stevens fight? Do people still talk to you about that? And can you do the dance for us very quickly? I can do the dance. Let me take. Ariel, you know, I've had a tremendous career. You know, I've fought, you know, since the late 90s. I fought the best of the best, you know, BJ, Matt Sera, all these guys.

And the one thing I'm most known for is that stupid dance. It's crazy. I don't know, I can't shake it, but I'm going to do the dance for you. Oh, yeah. I'm going to do it for you. Yeah, I'm going to do it for you. I call it the chills. It was inspired by Samuel L. Jackson and Jungle Fever when he, when he was trying to tell

his mama where he did with the TV, when he said he smoked TV. He said, I smoke the TV, Mama. Oh, yes. There it is. There it is. Are you in the lobby of the hotel right now? Yeah, I'm in the hotel lobby. I'm guessing there aren't a lot of people.

there at 2.23 a.m., right? Or are there a lot of people looking at you, like, you're weird? It wouldn't matter if it was, actually, because I don't care. You break it out on the dance four, too, at the club? Oh, I got a whole list of things I do at the club. Oh, really? A repertoire. When I was in Germany, me and Stefan Puts, who just recently won his MMA fight, or M1 Global Fight, and Rush St. Peter, to Russia, we were taking dance classes for like two months. For what?

just the well he was using it to uh you know because he he wanted to help build the coordination in his body you know make him a little lighter on his feet and i just decided to go with him you know i figured it be a place you know go hang out meet people in germany and uh we was taking the dance hall classes regga tone and hip-hop for like two months wow so when i go to the club now y'all better watch out because i'm tearing it up he was doing it for the coordination you were doing it for the ladies That's right. Yeah, yeah. And I ain't want to say it like that, but essentially that's what it comes down to.

And has it been helping? Not really. Okay. Because, you know, I'm an A. A. A. A, I'm a Mac anyway. You're a Mac? Yeah, I'm a player. I'm a true player from the Himalaya anyway. I heard that you're actually, I heard you're not a player you just crush a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I'm not a player. I just crush a lot. That's right. All right, so you gave us, it's hard to transition from that, to be honest, but I'll give it the old college try. So after Tyron Woodley, who's on your plate? Who's on your next fight? Oh, wow. Like I said, I'm doing Peter Holman for Gleason Chee-Bow. Then I just have to wait for the phone call. What's that?

Wait for the phone call. Yeah, wait for the, well, you know, like I said, ATT guys, they always reach out to me. So, you know, whichever big fight they have coming up, you know, they always come to me and say, hey, we need you to watch this guy or so on and so forth. I was really, actually, the fight I did for, I did Bobby Green for, uh. Josh Thompson? No, no, no, I did Bobby Green for, um, oh, I can't think of his name now. Which fight?

Uh, not the, he had, they, they were supposed to fight, but they just, they just canceled it. Oh, uh, well, he was supposed to fight, uh, let's see, Abel Trujillo? No, no, no, no, no, no. My, my friend, I can't think of his name now. I hate when I have a blank like this. George Mazzvedo, yeah, Mazzvedo. Oh, okay. I did Bobby Green for Mazzvedo.

Yeah. And, uh, they can't, then they just switched the opponent, but I thought that was going to be a great fight. I thought it was going to be even a better fight than now Bobby Green is fighting. Donald Seroni. So, Seroni, if you're out there listening, you want to buy the report, I already got it done for you. Oh, there you go. That's cool. How much it costs?

I'll give it to him for $500. All right. Wow. That's pretty cheap. If he wanted, I give him for $500. That's pretty cheap. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. How many pages is the report?

About eight pages. Okay. Let me ask you two last things. Jordan Meen is fighting this weekend. You said that you've worked with him. Did you scout Mike Pyle? No, I didn't. I think what happened was Jordan Meen, when he was supposed to fight Tiago Alves,

well, one, first off, Jordan Me is a hard guy to get a hold of. Okay. You know, he has limited access, like he has, like, no phone, like his email, he never. So after I worked with him on Hernani Perpetual, I kind of lost contact with him, and then he was supposed to fight Tiago Alves, and I reached him to let him know that, hey, listen, you know, I do not, you know, I didn't want him to feel like, You know, I was going to, you know, try to dime him out, so I reached out to him. But I never heard back from him.

So, you know, if you're listening to this now, Jordan, you know what I'm saying? You my boy, I would never dime you out. And if you need help when any other opponents reach out to me. You should go through his dad. That's who I go through to try to get a hold of him. Oh, do you? Yeah. You know, Lee?

No, I don't, I met him a few times, but I don't know. Oh, that's the guy to go. I'll give you his number. Yeah, yeah. Give me his number because I just want to let him know, you know, I don't ever, I won't ever dime him out because, you know, I consider him a friend and, you know, he's cool. All right. Well, this was great.

I wish you the best of luck in the fight, of course, this Saturday, Tyrone Woodley versus Dung and Kim, and with your growing business. I think it's a great idea, and I hope that maybe we helped you out as far as getting some new business. If Donald Stoney does, in fact, contact you, I want 10%, all right? Yeah, man, I got your back, man. Listen, so Donald, because he's taking your 10%, charge now is $5.50. Okay. No, I'm just kidding.

Ariel, man, I appreciate it, man. I hope to see you around, man. I appreciate you having me on the show and give me some love, man, and keeping me alive in this game. For sure. And all the best to you guys, and thank you so much.

I know your clock is all messed up, but, you know, 2 a.m. is 2 a.m. So I appreciate it very much. Thanks a lot for stopping by. Thanks, man. I see you soon. All right, there he is. Dean Thomas.

In Hong Kong, getting ready for Tyron Woodley versus Dung Young Kim, main event, Kung Lee versus Michael Bisping. You want the main card? I'll give you the main card. Really important fight for all four of those guys at the top. I think the guy who has the most pressure on him is Michael Bispen coming off that loss to Tim Kennedy in April. I mean,

if he loses to Cungley, who hasn't fought in almost two years, remember the last time Cungley fought was when he knocked out Rich Franklin in November of 2012. It's been a while. And Bisping is coming off that loss, questions about his health. Question about, obviously, is I. Questions about whether or not he is still relevant at 185. He'll always be relevant. But to me, the story of Michael Bisping is, I hate to use the word tragic because you don't want, I mean, there are a lot of tragedies happening in this world.

And, you know, this is just sports at the end of the day. But for a guy to be that popular, I think he might be the most, I don't even think. I know. He is the most popular fighter in UFC history to never get a title shot. Never. You know, there are guys who were popular who got title fights and lost, who never held a UFC belt. But in my opinion, Michael Bisping is the most popular fighter in UFC history to never even get a title shot. And you can certainly say that he deserved it at certain points.

Remember, he fought some guys who, you know, now we know we're on TRT. Actually, three of his highest profile losses came to TRT guys. Dan Henderson, Chal Sondon, Vitor Belfort, all of those fights could have maybe produced a title shot. And he fought in a division and in an era that really, I mean, let's be honest, in that era, guys like Tallis Lately has got title shots. Patrick Cote got title shots. You know, Damien Maya at one point got a title shot. Michael Bisping just couldn't, for whatever reason, every time he got to that big fight, couldn't get over the hump. and now you look at where he's at in his career, you have to wonder if he is ever going to get that tell shot.

So in my opinion of all the guys fighting on Saturday, whether it's in Macau or Tulsa, Oklahoma, that's the biggest fight right there. There's the most at stake right there for Michael Bisping. In a minute, we're going to be joined by Danny Castillo. He fights at UFC 177. That is rapidly approaching. It's in less than two weeks.

It's in Sacramento. The headlining act is T.J. Dillishaw v. Hennon Brown, And, you know, I have to make a confession because I said that the UFC made a mistake in booking T.J. Dilloshaw versus Hennon Burrow. And I still believe that they rush that rematch. I still believe that in a perfect world, they should have tried to have Barow, fight a couple of fights outside of the title, build them up. And then Dillishat does his thing. If you're a main champion, build him up. and then they meet, and I think the rematch would have meant a lot more.

That's how it's traditionally done. So I still believe that that was a mistake. But again, look, I was saying that it was a mistake to put those fights on the undercard this past weekend, and they proved to be not as exciting as the main card fights. Why do I bring this up? Well, UFC 177 is rapidly approaching. It just lost its co-main event. Demetius Johnson, Chris Carrioso, it's going.

to, it has been moved to UFC 178, and fans aren't feeling the buzz, fans aren't, you know, feeling the excitement. And now you could say, well, hey, the Burau-Dillishaw fight is a lot bigger than Dillashaw versus Halfel of Sonsal, so maybe it was better to keep that fight as the immediate rematch

as opposed to doing Dillashaw versus a Sonsal because I don't think they would have generated, at least there's a story to be told. There's a bigger story to be told in that fight than Carrioso Johnson, than even a bunch of other main events. So now, given the way things have unfolded, I actually think it made sense.

Short-term, maybe not long-term, but short-term, with the paper-view coming up, I think it actually makes more sense to do that fight. In any event, the co-main event, the new co-main event, is Tony Ferguson versus a man who's very excited to be fighting in his hometown, very excited that he has been pushed up the card, our guest at this time.

Mr. Last Call himself, Danny Castillo. And there he is, right there via the magic of Skype. Big smile on his face. Danny, how are you? I'm great. How are you? I'm doing great. So, you know, this is an interesting one.

And, you know, you know me, I tell it like it is. This, you know, this news came out and the UFC called it a co-main event. And I said, well, is this really a co-main event? I know that you've been approached about this because you responded to the haters with a Z on Twitter. What's your response to people who say, well, this isn't really a co-main event. This is just the second to last fight on the card. I don't know, man.

I don't really care. You know, this is going to be my 19th fight with Zufa. I've heard it all. You name it. I mean, I heard about how I suck, how I'm boring, how I'm a terrible fighter, this and that. It doesn't really matter because they made me a co-main event. So, I mean, people just got to get used to it.

and they just got to wait for the fight. If, you know, if it's a boring fight, then that gives them the ammunition to cry about and complain about it. But until then, they have no idea. Some of the fights that have been matched up, that were potential, like Barnburn, have been boring, you know. So I think because of what this fight, the implications that this fights brings for Tony and I,

it's going to make for a good fight. what was your reaction when you guys yes and um you know uh my last fight at home was was was fight of the night so um you know i get to fight there's just extra incentives you know for me and um and it's just like when i'm at home i feel like i can fight better than than anywhere else so um you know we're just going to have to see we're 12 days away and um i'm really excited about it uh honestly you know um you know um you you know, getting better each fight. And you can't really say that for a lot of people, but throughout my 18 fights in ZUFA, each fight I've gotten better and better. And there's no one

that can debate that. If you can debate that, then, you know, I think you're crazy because I've constantly improved every time I come out there. I'm a better one way or another. And it's going to show exactly the same thing August 30th. Couldn't agree with you more, not just saying that because you're here. anyone who watched you in WEC, and I remember watching a lot of your fights in WEC, you're a completely different fighter now, so you've certainly come a long way. What was your reaction when you got the call that you were going to be in the co-main event slot, if you will, in your hometown of all places? Well, the funny thing about the sport is you never get a call. I've never got a call.

I've been on two cards that have been canceled. I've never got a call. I've checked my Twitter and was updated via Twitter, but I never got a call about any of it. In fact, I got a text from John Morgan who was like, congratulations, man, I'm super happy for you. You know, this is everything you've worked for, and, you know, I can't wait to see you fight. And then, of course, I jumped, I saw a bunch of alerts on my phone. I jumped on to Twitter, and sure enough, you know, it was all over the net that I was the co-main event.

So it was an awesome feeling. I had a great day of practice. It was our sparring day, actually. So, you know, that week was phenomenal in training. It was actually the best week I've had. And the last 12 weeks I've been training for 176 and 177. So it was just, I get to fight in my hometown. And they canceled the car.

They helped me to Sacramento. on. I was so fired up about it. Then Jones got hurt, and then they both got me to co-made advantage. It's just like... What a crazy ride. He waited to end the story, but with a knockout, with a knockout finish. So I'm looking to put a story buck into this crazy story, you know? It's just, it's just been great news after great news, and I can't wait to get in there. Yeah, that's crazy. So no one called you to tell you that 176 was canceled. You just found out when the news came out? Yeah, the same with John Jones and Hendo back then. I'm not sure what number of

of that was. 151. Yeah, 51. Yeah, no one just found out via Twitter. So, you know, that's just the way it works. You know, once it's it and it's all over the net. The Skype connection isn't great. You mind if we call you on your phone?

Yeah, for sure. We're going to call you on your cell phone because the Skype connection is a little wonky and want to hear what Danny Castillo has to say. That is actually fascinating. I want to look this up while we get them on the phone here because I think Danny Castillo might be a trivia answer. Danny Castillo might be the only guy to fight, or at least be scheduled to fight on both cards that were canceled

in the only two cards that were officially canceled in UFC history. I'm looking at who was on 151. Now let's go to UFC 176. This is fascinating. Two years apart, Danny Castillo back then was supposed to fight Michael Johnson and

UFC 176 he was supposed to fight Tony Ferguson most of these guys weren't even in the UFC back then. Yeah. Wait? They were Abel Trujillo. Oh, Abel Trujillo.

He was on both. Abel Trujillo was supposed to fight Tim Means at UFC 151 and at UFC 1756 he was supposed to fight Bobby Green. Tony Ferguson? to? Well, this is just riveting. Anyhow. He doesn't get that award. Not the only guy, but one of just a couple. By the way, our friends at Fight Metric letting me know that Michael Bisping is

tied with Glysson Tee-Bow for the most UFC wins without earning a title shot. 14. How about that? See what I'm saying? Danny, you there? Yeah, I'm here. So in case you're wondering, I was just looking up because you brought up a great point. U.S.C. 151, 176, the only cards that were officially canceled after being announced by the UFC. Only two men were on both cards. You know who the other one was? Yeah. Well, I was kind of worried. I was like, man, this doesn't look good. Joe Silva and Dana Wier are going to book me for another fight if these fights keep being canceled. And then someone said, Abe Trujillo? Yeah, that's it. Yeah. So I thought that you were going to be the Grim Reaper,

but it's you and Abel Trujillo. Still a pretty, weird distinction to have. So it all works out for you because you get moved to your hometown and you're fighting Tony Ferguson. And here you are on the co-mate event. And it's very interesting because the last time you were on my show, we were talking about, you know, fight pass and all that stuff. And if you were punished, are you feeling the love now?

Do you feel like after knocking out Charlie Brennam in very impressive fashion that maybe you're back in the good graces of the UFC? Yeah. You know, it's, you know, the sport could be. extremely frustrating at sometimes, you know, for several different reasons. And, I mean, one of the reasons is communication, I believe, is a huge reason why it's frustrating for me because I get everything secondhand, either from my manager, Lex, or, you know, through Twitter.

You know, so it's like I've never really, actually I've never really talked to Dana Wyatt or had a sit-down conversation with him or anything like that. and Joe Silva, like I do see him at after parties and stuff like that, but it's more, it's never business. You know, it's all, you know, how are you doing? It's usually when one of my teammates' fights or something like that is when I talk to him. So, you know, that's, you know, them bumping me to co-main event means that they appreciate the last fight that I had here in Sack. And they know that, you know, I'm a big draw in my hometown, and they appreciate the hard work. And that's just the way I look at it.

It could be totally wrong. But I try to take the positives out of everything, and that's what I'm taking from this. So, okay, so right now you're getting ready for this fight. It's happening in Sacramento, and it's very interesting at Team Alpha Mail because much was made of the fact that Bang Ludwig was going to leave the team

after the Dillishaw fight on May 24th. But from following you on Twitter and Instagram and other fighters as well, it seems like you still work with Bang Ludwig, right? Will he be in your corner for this? fight? Oh, yeah, of course. So what happened there? Well, he came back and he

was going to train Chad and myself for 176. You know, the card got canceled. And then right before that, I believe before the card got canceled, they announced

TJ's rematch. So you know, he stayed for that and he's just been here. He's not here full time, but he's here Monday through Thursday. In fact, he flies in today. He'll run practice at 2.30. And then I'll work with him Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, one-on-one. And then he runs a couple of practices. He runs a sparring on Wednesday, and he runs some striking classes throughout the week. So, you know, I'm getting like eight to ten hours with him weekly. He leaves on Friday and goes to see his family. He's still trying to

work out his own academy in Colorado. But right now, it doesn't seem like it's been a huge change. You know, he's still here. He's a huge part of the team. And despite what the media says or, you know, what other people say is,

you know, there's no beef between anyone on the team and bang. There's no beep between your eye or anything. Like, you could, if you walked into the gym, you'd have no idea that there was ever a problem at all. Did you work with Martin Catman while he was there, and will you work with him if and or when he comes back? Well, I didn't really get a chance,

because after my fight, he came in, and I took some time off, but Bang was still here. So I wasn't really trying to take away from Martin. Not that I think that he's less of a coach than Bang, but Coach Bang and I have a chemistry, and, you know, we mesh well together. So while he was here, I was just like, you know, I'll work with Matt. I mean, if Martin's going to be the coach, I'll have him for a while. But, you know, why the opportunity presents itself, I'm going to work with Bang every day

while he's here until he leaves because he was still, you know, his kids were still in school. And until he was still here until he was still here until the lease on his place. place was up and everything. So I work with him, you know, so I didn't really work with Mount Martin too much. Although I did a couple practice with them, and I will say that you know, for being a striker, his wrestling

is really clean. He's a great wrestler. So speaking of solid strikers, Tony Ferguson has looked very good as of late since coming back from that injury. What have you made of him? Are you impressed with what he's been doing and what's the key to beating him in your opinion?

I'm impressed with anyone in the U.S. see. Okay. The guy he knocked out, not so much. You know, I'm not taking anything away from Tony Ferguson. I mean, he displayed power in his hands. He's a great striker, but that guy had his hands down the whole time, and he was flat-footed. That guy didn't impress me. Katsunori Kokuno, you're talking about, right? I guess that's his name. I don't know. The guy would just

Did they got his hands down that Tony Ferguson knocked out in the first round? His last fight, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. You know, he's talented. He poses a bunch of different problems, his length. You know, again, he has power in his hands.

He's a purple belt under 10th Planet Jitsu. You know, he has a win over some solid bet. he's Edwards, and he's tough. You know, but everyone is tough. I mean, if you go down the list of fighters, I mean, I can compare him to a bunch of fighters. I could say that, you know, height, stature-wise, it's the same as Tim Meen. Striking, I feel like Anthony Angequanty's a better stricken than him. I feel like Edson Barbosa is a better striker than him.

Jiu-Jitsu-wise, man, I fought a ton of guys, man, and it's all been in the big show. Six years I've been with the company Zupa. You know, eight fights in the WEC, 10 with the UFC. In the WEC, I fought Dustin Porre. I fought Cowboy Soroni. I fought Anthony Pettis. I fought Ricardo Lammis. You know, I fought a bunch of people that, that,

that are talented fighters, you know. I don't think that he's going to bring anything I haven't seen. All right. Looking forward to it. Danny, congratulations on getting that great showcase spot on the upcoming pay-per-view in your hometown UFC 177. It takes place in less than two weeks, not this Saturday, next Saturday at the Sleep Train Arena,

formerly known as the Arco Arena in Sacramento, California. Danny Castillo v. Tony Ferguson. Of course, the main event is Danny's teammate, T.J. Dillishaw, defending his bantamweight title for the first time against Hennon Brown. Looking forward to it, we will be there. Thank you very much for the time. Good luck in the final days of training, and we'll see you in Sacramento.

Thanks so much. I appreciate it. All right, there he is. Last call, Danny Castillo, stopping by talking about his fight on August 30th in Sacramento, of course. All right, let's move along now and go back to the Skype Machine for one of our favorites on the show, my client, the one and only now sporting a beard coming off his big win. this past, not this past, two Saturdays ago at MetaMoris. He is the MetaMoros heavyweight champion.

You want to say something, Josh? There he is. Yes? Where's the belt, by the way? I mean, all my actions do all the talking for me, my friend. You know, it's difficult to go out there when you don't have your right-hand man. You don't have Errol Helwani with the cane or the bag of gold as needed. I mean, it's difficult to face some of the greatest athletes in the world on the Metamores.

map or any map for that matter. Yeah. You know, it's sometimes the difference could be just a little distraction of the referee or, I don't know, simply me a roll of Nichols. That's true. You can. Yes. Yeah, I, I soldiered on.

And I was still able to, to get the victory, become the metamorphous heavyweight champion of the world and be the first person to submit Dean Lister in 16 years. Did they give you a belt? They did not. Although I hear there is an idea for some sort of monumental, well, look, put it this way. I asked Halleck if their heavyweight title award is substantial enough that I could defend myself from a home invasion. And he said yes. Yes, I could cavitate someone's skull with it.

So it gets my form of approval. I mean, I would have been happy if he just gave me a giant knife like this. But I already have one, well, more than one. So, you know. Wow. You can get. It seems a little cheap to not give you a belt, right? I mean, come on.

When do you become the heavyweight champion and not get a belt? You know, these are the things that the manager are supposed to. Yes, I could have brought it. That's right. That's true. Where was I a couple weekends ago? You could have at least stole it from one of my rivals. Yeah, that's true.

Speaking of which, you were at SummerSlam last night, right? I was. What was it like? Slam-orific. Wrestletastic. It was pretty cool. We, myself, Colleen and Colleen Schneider,

we jammed out and watched the festivities. It was, there was some good matches there that night. I thought Seth Rollins and, man, I'm out of it for so long. That match was fantastic. That one was actually,

probably one of the highlight. probably the highlight as far as just straight wrestling went. And then Dean Ambrose and Seth Rollins, that was the one that I enjoyed the most as far as wrestling content. But watching Brock, suplexed, John Cena, 87,000 times, you know, I'm not a John Cena fan, so I didn't mind much.

And you're a Brock fan? Because I saw you say that you'd wipe the floor with him not that long ago. I would wipe the floor with him. It was the statement was, Paul Heyman said that at 100%, without any diverticulitis or anything bothering him, that there was nobody out there that could touch him in the MMA arena.

And I just simply said, I wouldn't have touched him. I would have crushed him. And that's an absolute truth. That is the fact. And it's a good thing he's in the WWE. Otherwise, you know. But then again, I suppose I could make my way over there if that's what's necessary to go ahead and finally get a piece of Brock Lesnar.

But I tell you what, given the lesser, given the devil, between the two evils of John Cena and Brock Lesnar, I'm going for Brock Lesnar. Why, are you interested in going to WWE? Is that what you're saying? I'm interested in taking on anybody anywhere at any time. And, you know, it would be it in IGF or New Japan in the past or WWE, UFC, wherever I got to go to get a hold of whoever is supposedly the toughest guy in the block, then you know what? Have fistful travel.

Did you ever have any serious talks with WW in your entire career? I don't think you can ever really seriously talk to WWE. I think everything's at least a little bit of a work. Yeah, well, that's true. By the way, I couldn't help but notice that a good friend, or at least I think she is still a good friend of yours, Shana Bazeler, was in the front row on TV with Ronda Rousey, rocking the four, all that stuff.

And based on your tweets, it seemed like you were kind of high up. I mean, what's going on here? We were in the VIP section, whatever that means. But for me, it's not a big deal. You know, I've lived that life. And, you know, I'm one of the boys. So for her and all our friends to be down there and get to mark out and be ringside. And that's a cool experience for them.

And she's actually, I'm covered in sweat right now because I just came from, they're still over there. Shana's over there. Colleen Schneider, Lori. all these Caitlin Young, a bunch of people I'm working with, they're training right now. So you disrupted my training session so that I could come on this show of yours and deliver my prophetic words of wisdom to the people of today. Well, I appreciate it. Did you go backstage?

No. You didn't know. You don't do that. Not, I mean, not only when necessary, really. I've been there, done that. I know the guys I know I know. Let me ask you this. those women have been taking a lot of heat for calling themselves the four horsewoman

and they haven't been all that successful. Of course, outside of Ronda Rousey, Marina Shafir losing recently, Jessman Duke on a bit of a streak. Shana yet to compete in the UFC officially and get that official first win, although she is fighting in less than two weeks. As a pro wrestling historian, what do you make of them using that four horsewoman name when, of course, the four horse men were a classic and legendary

team in the world of pro wrestling. Well, they didn't start off classic and legendary. They started off as just four schmows coming together, trying to make a name for themselves. And they didn't win all the time. And as much as you have Arne Anderson's, you also have Oli's. So every now and again, even the great must fall. But it's the determination of greatness is how they arise again. So I personally think it's pretty badass to call themselves the four horse women.

and that sort of ingenuity and just interest, that's something that's lacking in MMA in general. I'm not saying you need to take your cues from pro wrestling's past, but do something out there to make yourself stand out, unless you're just totally fine with being a generic, homogenized, disposable fighter that you could get pretty much anywhere It throws all the same techniques, looks the same, talks the same, and has the same comments to make every time they walk out there.

And if you're okay with that, then, you know, everybody's also okay with you just disappearing and being replaced by somebody else. Will you be in Chana's corner? Yes. Yeah, I'll be cornering, I've been training Shana for her upcoming bout against Betch Corrette, right? Yeah, betch, betch. There's no C in it, but it's a betch. Yeah, it's Portuguese.

I don't know what's going on. Yeah, no lo and I understand. But she's been training real hard. Caitlin Young just moved out here. She's joined our crew. Caitlin, I mean, Colleen Schneider's been helping Shana get ready, Shohei MMO. We've got a whole crew of great competitors and fighters

all trying to make sure that Shannon goes out there and comes out with the W and, you know, puts an end to any talk of the four horsewomen, not being up to snuff. So let's get back to Meta Morris. I love what you did. I love what you wore. I just loved the whole thing because it felt like for the first time, this rather young promotion no longer became a Gracie infomercial. You know what I mean? It always felt like, okay, this is a Gracie, the BJJ. This guy came in. He said he was doing catch wrestling. He was honoring the past. I mean, it was just everything that you did there. And then you topped it all off with the amazing submission against a guy, as you mentioned, who hadn't been submitted in 16 years. How much did you enjoy the whole thing? I mean, the whole problem. The whole problem. from doing the throwback outfit, getting it all together, to just being on that stage with a lot of luminaries watching to getting to finish. I mean, that just seemed like a great day in the life of

Josh Barnett. Man, it was some kind of experience, Ariel. I mean, to put it in a way, to put it in a way that you could really understand Ariel. It's like getting a thumb in the right place at the right time for you. It's just really like that. And I understand the, you. I understand the, the comment about it is seeming like a Gracie infomercial. I do understand that. But honestly, there's opportunities. And when those opportunities present themselves,

when you've got that critical moment to create a big shift, the only thing you can do is just go through that window. So for me, I remember all the talk of Metamorphor's 3 and just thought, how cool would that be? How much would it put people on their heads if, you know, I walk out pro wrestling trunks, shoes on, a robe, the whole deal, and take it back to to the old school days of Frank Gotch, Carl Gotch, Billy Robinson, Inoki, Lufez, those kind of guys.

And bring it full circle back to grappling, or professional grappling, real roots. And I didn't really know any, you know, I called Judo Gene. He was busy. I made a call to Rick Flair, but I couldn't get anything past Woo. So it was really just left to me. That would have been amazing, you coming out with Judo Gene. Can you tell us via Skype, I mean, in a very short way, how you pulled off the submission? With just seconds remaining? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, it's a great riding position that had an arm position from basic wrestling. But there's a great diaphragm, crush, choke from that point. position and by I knew it was something that I had in reserve if need be, especially if I can tire him out and wear him out and break him down. And if time was getting short, it was something I could go to. And I knew I if I passed guard got that position, I could feel him breathing hard being fatigued. I slipped my arm under his head and sat through. And as soon as I locked it in, I just kept cinching it tighter and tighter until I got the tap. Did you know when you locked it in, Did you know right away that he was done?

The first initial escape attempt, you know, we started moving around a little bit, but when he rocked one direction, we came back the other. My arm got tighter, and I really, I felt that he's going to, he's going to give up. Were you aware how much time was left? Oh, yeah. Okay. I looked up with that. If I remember right, there was a monitor showing at some point.

I looked up and saw the time. Wow. It was like either you do it now or you don't. ever do it at all. Now, did they give you any grief about wearing the shoes? I mean, does that give you an advantage in any way? Other than having an incredibly dashing outfit and being color-coordinated? I don't know. I mean, to be honest, you know, I've seen a lot of slack, or a lot, not slack, a lot of fire from what I'm assuming, the jihitsu community online after the fact.

Okay. In terms of saying things like, oh, well, he's just, it was because he was big. And by the way, I don't know what our weights were on the night of the event. I don't think Dean was 220. He felt bigger than that. And that's very, in any case, he's still a heavy weight. I'm not sure what I weighed, but 250-ish, who knows what. It's because I'm big.

It was because, oh, the shoes were, now they gave me grip. whereas before, with the talk of me wearing shoes, everyone thought I was a madman because I was just giving Dean Lister basically a total license to tear my feet off and throw them into the second row. But when that didn't happen, now of a sudden, well, how can we figure out a way to, you know,

and in the end, you know, I went out there to represent catch, not to be against Jiu-Jitsu, but just to represent who I am and where I come from, what my foundations are, and to show it to the world, them to show just some different philosophies and ideologies when it comes to wrestling. But, you know, it's not anti. However, you know, all there's all this.

Oh, well, well, let's bring in this person. Let's see how he does against that guy. Well, he'll get smoked. Right. It's just, all right, whatever. I'm sure someone's going to step up, but they're going to limp out. So Halle Gracie kind of put you on the spot in a weird way. He shows up and he's like, oh, there's a guy out there.

I won't say his name. Will you do this again? Really putting you on the spot. I mean, are you going to do this again? Hey, Pop. possibilities are there. I did this one and it just matters how things lying up, man. My schedule has been just insane as of the last six months and finding the time to do things. Often it's often. It's just a matter of how how things just work out happenstance. So the possibility

is there. I wouldn't mind going back and showing the power of professional wrestling again. But as far as being put on the spot, I didn't feel it. It just felt like a promotional moment. And the emotions are running high, and people are, you've got their attention, so give him something to talk about. As for Halleck's delivery, he's a little stiff on campus, that's all. I don't really take any offense by it. Was he talking about Buccecha? I don't know, maybe, I guess. I imagine that the whole audience was full of heavyweight Brazilian to some degree.

Right. So here's my issue with you. Now let's get down to it. Oh, your issue with me. My issue. This is your third time. on my show, it might even be the fourth time in 2014 since your fight against Travis Brown.

And you did tell us at one point in February you suffered an injury, you were doing a movie, Steven Segal, then Meta Morris. Clearly, you're healthy now because you just competed and looked fantastic. And in my opinion, that really raised your stock. You were back in the mix, people excited about you, you're coming off a great win over a legend, et cetera, et cetera.

When do you get a fight again? When are you going to fight again? Why isn't your name ever mentioned? There aren't that many heavyweights. Certainly the UFC can use you, in my opinion. You're a great name. You've done a lot, former champion. When are you going to fight?

You know, every day is a fight, Ariel. It's a fight to get out of bed. It's a fight to make my coffee. This is a mystery to me. Every time we talk about, okay, who's next for this guy? This guy, everyone's like, what about Josh Barnett? Where is he? Is he done?

What's going on? When's this guy going to fight again? Far from done, as we can see with Metamora. It's, you know, I still got the, still got the go. But, I mean, to be honest, like I said, I've been so incredibly busy with so many opportunities right now that it's hard to find the chance to even make something like that happen. You know, I have, speaking of movies, I've got more film. I've got a set of films to shoot even towards the end of the year. And, you know, they don't happen real quick, if you know what I mean.

Right. So you think you're done? You're not going to fight for this year? This year's out of the game? No, no. Well, I mean, it's hard to say, but it looks tough. And being as busy as I am with all the projects I've been involved in, I've got, I'm doing another, we've already done one at Pitchfork Fast.

We're going to be doing another one at FYF in L.A. here, August 23rd and 24th, for Rayvan sunglasses and the order of never high promotion they're doing. stuff like that, these movies coming up over in, that I believe are going to be shot in Eastern Europe. Mattom Morris, the podcast, Josh Menorke's the World, I've got a pretty full plate, and I mean, it takes care of me quite well. But as you see, the fire is still there. I'm training every day.

I got done training. I trained my students in the morning. I lift. I still hit the gym. I got Tony Nelson, two-time NCAA heavyweight champion and just a total mountain of a man. He's like 64, 286 and ripped. And he's going to come here to Southern California

to run some camps for the kids at Brea High School and any of the other kids that want to come down. I'm going to teach on Thursday to show him some catch and to help with their wrestling as well. And he's going to be coming into CSW to learn a little bit of catch wrestling for me and help me sharpen up my wrestling game. slash probably try and pull my head off my shoulders.

But, you know, hey, that's cool. Would you be okay if you never fought again? No, I don't think I'd be okay with that. I'd probably have to at least throw a beer in somebody's face and call their mother a whore. Is that a possibility? I mean, are you just maybe too busy? Oh, I've done it before.

You know, I mean, I don't like to brag about that kind of thing. But is it possible that you just have too many stuff, you know, too much stuff outside of the sport these days to, you know, make it work? worth your while to, you know, it's brutal, right? I mean, you got to go in there, you fight, you get punch in the face. It is. It's brutal. And if you're not as fired up for it as you need to be, if you're not as focused as you need

to be, it's not the kind of support you want to be involved in. And that can be a real issue. So when it comes to fighting, you choose one or the other when it's that time. But, I mean, I don't have to go back to fighting. I can do everything else. I mean, there's no monetary necessity to fight with all my other projects. But fighting is a love. It's a passion and it's a necessity.

I don't get to fight forever. I can still be making movies well after my fighting career is over. But you get the one opportunity to fight and then that's gone. So I want to make the most of that. And I do have plans and intentions and I still have the desire to get it in the to get back in the ring. I just, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't upend my whole life at the moment to do one while the other is going so well.

I know I can make it work, but it doesn't seem to be right at the moment. Has UFC, you know, brought you or your management team any interesting fights that you're like, hmm, this is, or maybe they haven't, and maybe that's why you haven't been enticed? Just a few local thumb wrestling matches, a couple of pillow fights. and one very heated game with Twister with Joe Silva, which you would think I'd have a great advantage by being so much longer, but he's quite flexible. I swear the kid must do yoga or something.

What about this guy Jared Rochalte who tweeted to you this morning? We aren't getting any younger, and I'm looking for a high-profile fight. You're the best available UFC 180, question mark, respectfully. What are your thoughts? Jared Rochall, his manager telling me last week that they would like to fight you as well. Well, it's interesting because, again, not enough compliments. I think I need more compliments to boost my ego.

At the very least, tell me how cool my shirt is after watching the M&A hour. Brand new stuff, Josh Barnett, Warmaster's shirt designed by Dan Penosian. Wow. The Urban Barbarian and for sale on Nawhaza.com, I believe. How do you spell that? Ney slash Waza. I don't know, N-E-W-A-Z-A. Okay.

N-E-W-A-Z-A. Newayza Apparel. It could even be Na-Wazza Apparel.com. I'm a moron. That's just a... That was a great plug, by the way. Wrong website. I can't even pronounce it.

Yes, go ahead. But, yeah, well, here's the thing. When you, in Western M-A culture, let's say, I guess we're mainly talking about America. People don't call folks out. that they don't think, unless you're Japanese, and the Japanese will call out someone that they don't even believe they should be in the ring with. They just want the honor of the opportunity to even get their nose plowed across their face by them.

When it comes to the UFC and Western MMA, you don't call people out that you don't think you can beat. So clearly, Jake's manager and likely are Jared. Jared's manager and all the people around him, am I saying that's Jared Rochall? Jared, yeah, yeah, yeah. Jared, they must have talked it into him that, that he somehow can defeat me in the ring. And I mean, it's unusual for someone to actually call me out for once. But, I mean, well, I guess if there was the possibility to make that fight, I would show the whole world exactly why I'm not the one to call out.

So you're open to it. You're open to it. But I do appreciate the fact that he respectfully asked for the fight. and if he really just wants to get in there and test himself, or even if he thinks he can beat me. I mean, nobody gets anywhere in fighting by sitting around not trying to fight people. So you're actually open to it? Look, man, I'm here to fight folks.

I'm not here to talk about them. I'm not here to make origami cranes with them. Okay. But I am here to kick ass and take names. I wouldn't have any problem putting Rochalt on my belt. how many more years do you want to fight for tell i'm done i have no idea what that what that litmus is and when i hit it i'll know it uh but before that you really can't think in in uh finality in that way it'll just it'll just remove your ability to push your yourself to the the furthest

limits that you can reach and uh you know it's something it's something to be said even for that person that is so ignorant of their own ability or where they should be or how, you know, their skill versus how far they've made it. But, you know, dogged determination is, is damn important in fighting. And in this case, it's a dogged determination to go out there and fight for as much as I can and do as much as I can with it without thinking about, you know, the end of the line. Give us your gut feeling. When do you think you'll fight again? Oh, I don't know, maybe a little bit after lunch. I mean, this morning was a pretty rough.

We miss you. We miss you. Yeah, I don't know, man. It's hard to say. To be perfectly honest, doesn't seem like all too quickly. That's a bummer. It is. I understand.

I feel your sadness. Yeah. It's something that it just seems to seep out through the screen and right into my lap. But don't worry, I'll take great care of your melancholy. I will coddle it and keep it warm, feed it, and help it to grow until the point that it turns into crippling depression. And then I will go to therapy with you. All right. Well, I was hoping for some good news, but it sounds like the Josh Barnett drought.

It's fantastic news. Your client, Mr. Hawanian. Listen, if you are truly my client, I'd like to see you fight again. as well. You are, if you are truly my client, I'd like to see you fight again, and that means you are obeying my advice. I'm just a Russian machine. I go, I destroy. I don't know the English talk of go a client.

I just smash. USSR. Congratulations on the win. Good luck in Sacramento. I'll see you there. And let us know. If you have any news regarding fighting. Thank you.

We'll see you soon. Thank you, Josh. Appreciate it. Good job with the magic cards, by the way. Well done. Oh, thank you. That was a lot of fun. Tune into Josh Bernardich Conquers the World. People out there, iTunes, SoundCloud, and some Fox Sports.com. Josh L. Barnett on Twitter and Instagram for all my other zany shenanigans. There he is. The one and only Josh Barnett. Thank you, Josh. The Warmaster stopping by. So interesting stuff there. It sounds like he'd be interested in the Rochell fight, but it doesn't sound like he's coming back anytime. soon. Weird. All right. Let's move along one more guests to go. And on Friday, as I mentioned, on Axis TV, Christoph Sosinski was on Inside MMA and officially announced that he was retiring from the sport. Now, obviously he hadn't fought in quite some time, and there was some talk that he was walking away from the sport, but he never really made it official until Friday. And in that interview on Inside MMA, had some very interesting things to say about his career and where he's at right

now as far as his health is concerned. So I wanted to have him on the show to talk about all that and much more. So we got Christoph on the line right now, right here on the MMA hour. Christoph, how are you? I'm doing well. How are you doing, sir? I'm doing great. Thank you very much for joining us. So as I mentioned, on Friday, you officially announced that you were done with the MMA as far as fighting is concerned. And the last time you fought was December of 2011. Why did it take you so long to officially say you're done? I'm not really sure. You know, I think within my inner circle of my family and my friends, we all knew that

I was done. Just, you know, everybody on, whether it's on Facebook or Twitter, always keeps asking me, are you fighting again? Are you fighting again? And I guess it was just that time where I was, okay, I'd just let everybody know what's going on. And on top of that, I also saw the T.J. Grant article about having some issues with post- concussion stuff, and I just kind of wanted to give my take on what's going on with me,

so maybe if you read it, he, you know, we'll maybe listen and then think about, you know, fighting again. When you lost to Igor Prokriech at UFC 140 back in December of 2011, December 10th in Toronto, did you know after that fight that you were done? No, actually, no. I actually wanted to have one more fight. I knew that my career was coming down to an end, and it was because of my knees, not because of my head.

having 18 surgeries and knowing how bad they were for my camp with Igor, I just wanted out that one 10th, 10th fight in the UFC. That was the goal. The goal was to get the 10 fights in the UFC. And I got to 9, and I really wanted that last one. And when I took the six months off after the Eagle fight, I called up Joe Silva, and I asked him if he can put me on a card. And he offered me a fight in Australia in December of 2012.

I accepted the fight. I had the contract. I signed it. We were ready to go. And then, yeah, just had that first little light sparring session with a 155-pounder. And, yeah, just things didn't go as well as they should. And my brain literally told me, I don't want this anymore. And that's when I kind of can't realize that, hey, there's something going on with me.

And then throughout those six months, you know, I mean, things were happening where I was kind of, you know, very forgetting things and just displacing things, getting frustrated with things, learning my words and stuff like that. But I didn't really think how much over it. You know, I thought, okay, no big deal. We'll just deal with it and hopefully it will get better. And then I sent out an email to the UFC and then, you know, Dana White called me right back and they were really worried. And, you know, he basically right there in the spot in that conversation we had over the phone just told me we're going to retire you.

And we're going to send you over to Vegas to get all your head done and head tests done. And that's what I did. What did those tests reveal? Everything was fine. The test revealed that my memory is not very good. I had a memory test. It was a memory test in the computer. You got to follow certain pictures and all this stuff.

And I didn't do as well as I should have. But as far as like cat scans go and all CT scans and all that stuff, everything was good. There was no issues there. See, in the Eagle fight from what the doctor told me, I've only watched that fight one time. And I took six shots right to the temple after I got dropped. And when I spoke with the doctor who was on inside MMA,

he says, well, that's the exact spot where, you know, the brain focuses on memory. And he says that's probably the reason why you're having some issues with your memory. As far as everything else goes, as far as, you know, equilibrium and dizziness and all that stuff, I'm perfectly fine. I've never really had any of those issues. I thought one little late dizzy spell a few months back, but it wasn't nothing serious. Slate back down for five minutes before, got back up and everything was fine.

But it was just the memory stuff. And he told me, so the doc said, he said that's the perfect spot. You got hit. That's probably where the memory's part of the brain is. and that's what happened. So how is your memory these days? It's the same as it's been over the last two and a half years. You know, I forget things.

I don't remember much of, you know, what happened two days ago. Even I remember much what happened yesterday. My wife and I always, you know, have conversations. Even today, I asked her a question that I already asked her yesterday, and as you actually said, you already told you this already yesterday. I didn't remember. So it's just those little small things that, like I said in an interview that you take for granted that you kind of miss out on.

and it's everything else is fine. You know, I do tend to read a lot more now, so my vocabulary is getting better and growing. But as far as the whole, you know, short-term memory stuff that what I did yesterday, the day before, just questions, kind of kind of countdowns when I teach classes, and I'm counting back to, you know, 8, 6, 4, 2,

you know, I'll mess that up from time to time. And just sometimes I'll even say, you know, two words at the same exact time that just makes no, make no sense. And it just, yeah, it's just weird, you know. I'll be speaking with somebody, and then all of a sudden I'll just completely blank out. I'll just start thinking about something completely else. I'm looking at him. I'm listening to the conversation, but I just completely tune out.

It's all things like that that just kind of bother me and try to understand, like, what's going on with my brain and why is it doing that? Have you been told that it's going to get worse? No, no. I spoke with the doctor yesterday. I'm on Friday. I'm on Saturday. He says, as long as I'm doing what I'm doing, as long as I'm kind of focusing on, playing, you know, just still learning and still reading more.

And I even started doing these memory puzzle games and on the computer and all this other stuff. I took the TV out of the house and no much as much TV as I used to. And just kind of focus more on, you know, keeping my brain busy and occupied rather than just let's do nothing and just watch TV and stuff like that. So, you know, it's not getting any worse. I haven't been told it's going to get worse, but it hasn't gotten any better. I feel like my vocabulary has gotten better from reading books and stuff like that. as far as the memory goes, I'm having a still a hard time with the short-term memory stuff. Looking back, do you feel like you fought too long that you should have retired sooner?

No, not at all. You know, this has happened in a fight. It didn't, you know, I wasn't experiencing these symptoms before this fight. It's just one of those things that happens in a fight. I definitely should have, you know, taking care of my knees a little better. But as far as the head goes, I was perfectly fine before that fight. It's just one of those things where, you know, he just take too many shots and, you know, hit me in the right spot. And, yeah, I just have to deal with it.

It's just part of the game. I understand it. And, you know, I'm just, just wanted to let everybody know what was up and that, hey, if you are having some head issues, and I'm sure I'm not the only one in the sport having head issues that you should really listen to your head. And to your brain was telling. So since this came out, and, you know, we don't hear these stories. too often in MMA since this came out on Friday. Did you hear from other fighters who reached out and said,

thank you, or can you give me some advice to anyone reach out to? Actually, I did. I had an email from a fighter who, you know, not as high level as well as of the UFC or anything like that, but he basically said, thank you very much and that he understands where I'm coming from because he's dealing with the same thing. So that's a fighter that reached out to me.

I've had a lot of guys just say that they're, they're just very happy that finding someone. somebody had, you know, who's experiencing these things actually had said something because, you know, it's probably one of the hardest things I've ever done, you know. The last thing I wanted to do was tell the world that, hey, I'm happy some head trouble. That isn't, you know, that's, you know, I want to probably look upon us being a dumb guy or anything like that. And that was definitely tough.

But I felt like it was one of those things where I just wanted to come out and let everybody know this wasn't a plea for help or anything like that. This wasn't, you know, me try and get back to the line light or anything like that. I just reading those articles by T.J. Grant and then just hearing some more issues with guys is dealing with with head troubles and just look at all the other sports like NFL and all that stuff. I just wanted to let everybody know what is up and that this stuff is serious. And if anybody's out there who does is having some some of these troubles like I am, then you know, they should definitely listen to their head and listen to their body and,

you know, possibly at that time to kind of move on and do something else. The UFC, as you may know, teamed up with a bunch of other different promoters in MMA and boxing for this Cleveland Clinic study, you know, to observe you know, the trauma that athletes, you know, will take and develop from being in combat sports. Are you going to be a part of this at all? If that's something that they want me to do, then I'll definitely be a part of that 100%. Okay, so they haven't reached out to you. You haven't done anything with it. Yeah, and I haven't done any kind of study or anything like that with, or haven't met anybody

with from any kind of study, you know? Do you feel like the UFC took care of you? Absolutely. They definitely took care of me, you know. they even painting my purse for Sydney, Australia, that like that didn't happen, they, uh, they pulled me over to Las Vegas for a day and a half of, of complete, you know, complete

physical, I mean, uh, neurology exams, um, the CT scans and all that stuff. And, uh, they didn't have to do any of that stuff. And, uh, and I definitely thank him for, for doing that. And, uh, even, even now, just doing what I do, you know, I'm still with the company. I work for the UFC gym. I love my job. I get to pass on knowledge. I get to pass on knowledge to

students and I get to get to help. their coaches learn how to how to train our students. So it's an amazing opportunity for me to kind of move on as well. And so be a part of being in the White and I, whenever we see each other at the UFC gym, we always talk, we always tell. You know, he always tells me how proudies of me of moving on after my career and stuff like that. So it's always been good. What exactly do you do at the gym in which location are you at?

Well, I'm the director of mixed martial arts for the company. So basically what I do is we have the ultimate program, which is our mixed martial arts program. And I travel right now, I'm currently out of UFC Jim Torrance, but I travel around to all the other gyms in California and North America as far as New York. And I basically make sure that the program that we provide is, you know, is the right program, that we're teaching it the right way,

that, you know, if we're saying it's kickboxing, we're actually teaching kickboxing, it's boxing, it's boxing, it's boxing, it's MMA, it's some intensity to the program that we're teaching. So it's a little job. I'm very passionate about teaching. I've always been told that I'm a better coach than I am a fighter. So just kind of moving on and just focusing on that. I've always loved it.

I still trained. I train Carlos Breza, who is in the ultimate fighter house right now. I trained Cheetah as well. I'm getting out of her to his last two fights, a shrinking condition. So it's amazing to see these fighters coming to our gym and training there. Speaking of training other people, I was told that Hollywood mogul, as I call him, the actor from Pitch Perfect friend of the show, Skylar Aston, is one of your students as well, is that correct?

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I've met Austin a few months back, and he came in through the gym and wanted to do some padwork and wanted to get his strength and conditioning up. He's interested in doing some more, he's very interested in doing an action movie. So, yeah, we started talking and hanging out, and, you know, we talk a lot, we have fun, and, you know, he was even talking about possibly having me all. one of his episodes of his of his TV show, as his path coach and stuff like that. So, yeah, no, he's an awesome guy. We're having fun.

And, yeah, I just, I just like the fact that, you know, gets tapped on this knowledge to you, to, to, all these people. It's amazing. How's your acting career going? You were, of course, you know that you were, you were in here comes the boom, and you know that event that you competed against Kevin James was UFC 176 that ended up being canceled? Did you know that?

I did not know that, no. That's crazy, right? How's the acting career going? I think career is going Not too bad You know Ever since here comes The boom

I've done four other movies I've had my very first Uh Uh Lead role I guess you can say I was the lead bad guy In a movie called Taps

Uh It did go straight to DVD It was a smaller budget movie You know I got up myself on a poster I have speaking lines A lot of fight scenes I don't have a knife scene

And a gun scene Um It's been a lot of fun It's nice to do something different You know I feel like I'm living like that American That life You know

That dream that living that American Dream You know like moving from Poland into Canada. I've met for the last week's here spending my time in California and just living in beautiful sunny California. And having to do movies, I'm working on DJing. I'm going to have my first gig by the end of this year.

The DJ, you know, just having all these things of these fun things that I can do. And on top of that, you know, just have a great job with the UFC company. It's just been an amazing journey for me. What kind of a DJ are you? You know what? I'm huge into German bass, the fast and the hard stuff. So I play a lot of German base.

I have some of the pioneers of German base in California kind of being my coaches, and I'm learning how to scratch, I'm learning how to mix, I'm learning how to beat match, I'm learning all that stuff, and it's just been having a lot of fun with it, and these guys have been very supported of me. I get to meet some of the best German-based DJs on the planet out of California,

and just passing our knowledge to me and helping me out. It's been amazing. You know, the last time you're on my show was back in 2011, and you said some very interesting stuff that people still talk to me about today. on that show, you said that you believe that 85 to 96% of MMA fighters were on some kind of PD. And now this is a gigantic story. People weren't talking about it as much back then. Now you see what happens with GSP retiring and all these guys getting popped.

Do you think it's worse now? I'll just say I told you. Yeah, you did tell me. Wow. Absolutely. You know what? It's right in MMA. It's every sport out there.

You know what I mean? Think about it. If you were told as an athlete that, hey, I have something for you. that's going to make you bigger, faster, stronger, and better. And it's undetectable in the body. And it's only going to cost you a little bit of money, but it's going to get you to where you want to be. Are you not going to take that stuff?

Well, you might get caught, right? Well, you might, but... Yeah. There's no guarantee. As long as you pass, as long as you do what I tell you, you're going to be able to be okay. People are going to take that. And that's what it is.

It's just part of the game. It's part of being sports, part of being an athlete. It's in our blood to be better. and to get to the number one spot in the world at anything that we do. So it's a hard thing for a lot of athletes to say no to, and a lot of them don't. And it's just the way it works. Do you think it's worse now? I think it's the same.

I've said it before. You know what I mean? I said 80%, 92, 90%, whatever it was. Right. The same thing. I don't think it's worse. It's always been there. We're finally understanding why.

We're finally doing the better testing now. you know, when you start testing for HGH and EPO and all this stuff, and before you were just testing for testosterone, well, then that's the difference. Now you're testing for all these things that MMA, the sport of MNAs about. MMA is about testosterone. It's more about endurance training than anything else. Well, endurance is EPO and a bunch of other these things, growth hormone and all this stuff, GH and all that stuff.

So those are the things that you're going to test for us are the things we're going to find in the body. So before you know she wasn't testing for the things, now they are, and that's why they're finding these guys being on. Do you think they're doing a good enough job of weeding out the, cheaters? Oh, slowly, for sure. It's not going to happen overnight, but, you know, I'm really liking the fact that they're, they're not telling anybody when the tests are happening, that you're showing up at your

door and giving you a test. I think that's awesome. That's fantastic. That's the best way to do it. Because you can, you can, you don't have to have a fight to take a test. And I like that. I like the fact that it can show up at any time to your place. And whether it's your, you're having a fight in six months, whether you just had a fight

and you're doing that. I think that's fantastic. That's the best way to do it. Let me ask you two last things. let you go. Is there any lesson that younger fighters can learn from you about, you know, treating your brain with the utmost care? You know, sometimes guys, we hear about the suspensions that you're on, you know, these suspensions after fights, you have to rest after you have an injury, but you guys are sparring and who knows the kinds of concussions or injuries that you're

suffering there and then you're coming back, you know, a few days later or fighting a week later. I mean, what can a fighter do to take care? I mean, it's a brutal thing. It's a lot of trauma that you're you're absorbing for an entire career, but what can fighters do to avoid memory loss and, you know, sometimes even worse? I think I think you should start with just the training alone. Just make sure that you're, if you are sparring, you're wearing headgear, and then you have a proper mouthpiece. I think that's a really big important thing.

I'll be honest with you, I rarely wore hit gear during my days of training. And I mean, we're going head-to-to-to-to-to-to-to with Dan Anderson, and we're going to toe-to-to-to-to- with Mark Munoz. And I'm going total tone with the team that team Tompkins guys, you know, Sam Stout and Hordeca and all those guys, and everybody, all those guys hits hard. So I think that all starts with just taking care of your head first. It's putting that, getting that proper mouthpiece from the dentist,

spending that $100, $100,000 and getting that proper mouthpiece, getting that a really good head gear that protects you everywhere, and that you actually wear it all the time. Another thing is I also find that a lot of these guys are sparring almost on a daily basis. I remember my time's at Team Quest, and we used to literally beat the crap out of each other on a daily basis. um, uh, you know, had sparring matches in the morning. Real MMA sparring match in the morning with small gloves.

You had sparring in the evenings and stuff like that. And, and, and, you know, I understand it. I get it. It was, it was a lot of fun. I had a blast. It made me, maybe a bigger, stronger, tougher person. But I think that definitely takes a toll on your body after a while. And I think guys should just really focus a little more on the technique aspect and focusing on the, on the, on the, and then the, and then the, and then the MAs, the DJJ stuff, the striking

stuff separately. And then once, you know, once or twice a week only go into the, the, the, the, go to your gym and in a spa. We're seeing a situation now with Gray Maynard where he's getting knocked out frequently and it wasn't happening before, and I'm wondering if Dana White didn't say you're retired today, would you have kept on fighting?

Do fighters need someone to tell them it's over? Sometimes they definitely do. I definitely think that, you know, if you've been knocked out two, three, four times in a row or four, three, four, five times in a row in the last, you know, five, six, seven fights, I think that's definitely an issue right there. And that's a red light right there

for you to actually think about if you should not be kind of moving on and doing something else. It's very tough for anybody to be told or if you can think about, you know, moving away from something that you truly love and you're passionate about it. And it's providing for your family.

Like, you know, I look at Mark Wunos, for example. You know, he got a really bad elbow from Chris Wyman and they got dropped and took a lot of shots after he got knocked out right after that. And he got a head kick. and got knocked out right there. Then he had a really tough fight. His last fight against Monsassey, didn't do so well,

and then he just signed a new contract with the UFC. You know, it's a friend of mine. I worry about him. I texted him, I ask him how your head is and all this stuff, how you're feeling. It's one of those things where, you know, you're looking from the outside in, it's like, I want to tell this guy, just like, listen, hey, you have a family. You have you have three kids. You know what I mean?

You've got to think about your future and stuff like that. And I know UFC pays your bills and the fighting pays your bills, but sometimes it's that time you've got to think of us, get back and say, hey, what else can I do to make this money? Is this really all I have? Because, you know, those little things, man, that I'm forgetting. It's hard, and I want to remember my son's name when I'm, you know, when I'm 50 years old, 60 years old, and I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to do that.

You never know. You think he should retire? Do I think Mark Munoz should retire? Yeah. I don't know. You know, it's definitely his decision, but I think he's close. I think as a friend, I won't. about him and I know he's an amazing, amazing wrestling coach and he's got such an amazing

gym over there and a family he has. I think he should solely start thinking about, you know, possibly moving out to something bigger and better because, you know, one more knockout, one more thing like that and what he's been through over the last, you know, three-four fights, it could definitely hurt him somehow. Okay, last question. Favorite moment of your career? Favorite moment of your career? I got two of them. So the first one was Montreal. That was an amazing experience for me fighting in Canada in front of, you know, 22,000 fans beating Brian Stan and then winning by the Camara. And even that, that thing that I did at the end with the Camara would have pointed back was part of the, part of the, what they call? Part of the video game.

So that little Camaro sign that I did after I beat him. So that was awesome. And I had a chance to walk out to a Polish song in Germany. And I heard a whole bunch of Polish people singing it with me. And that was definitely one of my happiest moments. I got to see my grandparents after flew to Poland and all that stuff. So those two would be two of the most memorable experiences. And my two wars with Stefan Bonner were amazing as well.

So I have so many that, you know, but those are by far my two favorite moments. Yeah, great, great stuff. And you represented Canada very well. As, you know, I know you are called the Polish experiment, but you represented Manitoba and now, of course, the great state of California. So congratulations on a great career, Christoph. I commend you for coming out there. Even though it took you a couple of years to do it,

I commend you for, you know, letting the cat out of the bag and letting us know that your career is over, but it's important to talk about this stuff. And I think you're a great role model in that sense. And great to see that you're still a part of MMA and teaching the younger fighters and even Hollywood actors. How about that? And having a fine acting career of your own. So all the best, you, Christoph. I wish you the best as far as your health and career is concerned, post-fighting.

And keep us posted on everything you're doing. I know you're on Twitter and whatnot, but, you know, always good to hear from you. and I wish you all the best. Absolutely. Thank you so much for your time, man. I appreciate it. All right, there he is. The Polish experiment himself,

Christoph Soshensky, a fine UFC career also fought in the IFL for many years, even had a cup of coffee in Strike Force. Fought Mike Kyle to a draw at Strike Force Shamrock v. Gracie, the first ever Strike Force event. Fought for a while at TKO, which was a Quebec-based organization, and even though he last fought in December of 2011, it has been some time almost three years.

Good to hear him come out and talk about why he walked away from the sport and good on the UFC for taking care of him and telling him the time has come. It's amazing. I kind of forgot about that Bryant-Stand win. That's a pretty good one. He had a solid winning streak there after the loss to Ben Rothwell. One, one, two, three, four, five, six in a row. Interestingly enough, the first event that I was ever credentialed for, he competed on. December 15th, 2007.

I was credentialed as a writer for jaripark.com. The website was one month old, and I went to HDNet fights, reckless abandon. That was in Dallas, Texas, American Airlines Arena. He fought Robert Viega. and he won via DQ because Vygas refused to fight. He was laying on his back. That show was headlined by Mayhem Miller versus Tim Kennedy, and also Frank Trigg was on the card.

That was when HG Nets, they had decided they were going to promote their own shows, and then quickly decided that they're not going to do that. They're just going to team up with other promoters and air the fights. I actually forgot that he was on that card as well. And I always appreciated the fact that they credentialed me. with not a lot of experience under my belt. And that is a great segue, my friends,

to week two of our Inside the Vault. We're calling this segment Inside the Vault because we go inside the MMAfighting.com Vault for a look at a classic interview. Now, last week I said that the interview that we aired with Dana White, UFC 112 post-fight, Anderson Silva acting all crazy,

was a no-brainer. And this one that we're looking at this week is also a no-brainer, because back in 2009, you know, I was just a young buck trying to work my way up and get noticed and do my thing. And I had just started working for AOL.com. And of course, I was working for Fan House, which is no longer with us. But that was a great opportunity. And, you know, when opportunities would come up here in the New York area, I would go out and do interviews. You know, there were less MMA events back then. So there were more opportunities to do. do stuff locally, and that included stuff outside of mixed martial arts.

I did a fun video at Madison Square Garden interviewing the Nick City dancers. They were trying out to be the Nick City dancers, I think for the 2009-2010 season. I went to Steve Nash's charity soccer game on the Lower East Side and interviewed a bunch of athletes there. And another event that I attended was a press conference at Yankee Stadium. for the upcoming Manny Pachiao versus Miguel Cotto fight. And what was interesting about this press conference was that they were holding it at Yankee Stadium, even though the fight wasn't taking place at Yankee Stadium, but it was just kind of a big deal,

and it was kind of a sign of things to come in a way. People were wondering, well, does this mean that they're going to start holding a events at Yankee Stadium, which they used to do back in the good old days. Now, I was at the media event covering it, as I said, for Fanhouse.com. And I was coming there as an MMA guy and maybe, you know, with an MMA bias or MMA slant, if you will. And this was a hot topic because later on that month, September of 2009, boxing and MMA were going head to head, boxing in the U.S.

UFC were going head to head. There was going to be UFC 103. What date was I believe? If memory serves me correct, I think it was September 19th. Is that correct? Was it September? Yeah, it was. Wow.

That's unbelievable. September 19th, it was headlined by Rich Franklin versus Vito Belfort that was taking place in Dallas, Texas, also the American Airlines Arena Center. Arena is in Miami. And that same night, Floyd Mayweather was fighting Juan Manuel Marquez. And this was significant because it was a very big deal to have two big pay-per-view events going on at the same time.

Now, the boxing match was obviously a bigger deal because it was Mayweather, but there was some talk back and forth, who would do better, who would suffer as a result. Dana White put out a video, Mayweather talked about it, et cetera, et cetera. And this was happening in 19 days. So it was a very big deal. It was a hot topic. The UFC going up against Floyd Mayweather and who would win, right? So I was at this media event on September 10, 2009, and I see Bob Aram. Now, Bob Aram is, in case you don't know, he is a long-time boxing promoter from Top Rank and CEO of Top Rank,

and he's been doing this for years and years and years. I mean, the guy has had an amazing career as far as boxing promotion is concerned. Never was the biggest MMA fan, but never really ruffled feathers. I mean, Dana White kind of always got under his skin, but never really really. ruffled feathers like he did when I interviewed him at Yankee Stadium. We started off talking about boxing coming to Yankee Stadium, what had happened, then UFC going head to head with a boxing event, and then he just got into his thoughts on MMA. And this was pretty shocking stuff. Shocking stuff, and it was picked up all over the place and got us some attention, did some

interviews after the fact and whatnot. And I always kind of regretted the way I handled the situation because I felt I interjected my own opinion a little too much. And then sometimes I kind of felt like maybe I should have been a little tougher on old Bob Aram. But in any event, this is the interview. This is the second week of Inside the Vault. This is the one that we're going to look at, September 10, 2009, me interviewing Bob Aram at Yankee Stadium, 19 days before the UFC went head-to-head with Floyd Mayweather. And Bob Aram, out of nowhere, gave us some very bizarre.

bizarre thoughts on mixed martial arts. Not a fan, and it picked up a lot of press. A lot of attention came as a result of this interview. So here it is me interviewing Bob Aram at Yankee Stadium. Fanhouse.com at Yankee Stadium for the Mani Pakel-Megel Cotto press conference, and we're being joined by top-ranked Bob Aram. And Bob, this is a very exciting event for New Yorkers to have a press conference here in Yankee Stadium. Do you think we'll ever see the day that we'll see a big fight here?

Yeah, I think that one of the reasons we had the press conference here in Yankee Stadium, is it's a precursor for a big, big event here at the stadium. Nothing would be better for boxing. It would be great to come back to Yankee Stadium and to do a big event. And I can't wait, and we're going to do it next year. Really? Is that the plan? That's the plan.

Maybe the winner of the Mayweather-Marcus fight fighting the winner of this fight? I don't think so. But certainly a big fight is going to happen. next year and it will happen at Yankee Stadium. Do you think that those two winners will face off or are there just too many hurdles involved? You know, I really can't tell. I mean, let's see who wins and then we'll see.

I mean, you know, Marquez is more predictable than Mayweather. So if Manny wins and Marquez wins, the drum beats or roll for a Manny Marquez fight, which would be a real possibility. If Mayweather wins against either of these guys, he's just a problem and a headcase, and it would be very, very difficult to put a match together. I'd like to get your take on something a good friend of yours

U.S.C. President Dana White said recently. He said, you know, no one wants to see Mayweather fight Marquez. People want to see Pachial fight Mayweather. And as you know, boxing and UFC are going head-to-head next weekend, you know, UFC 103 against the Mayweather fight. Do you think at some point boxing is going to have to make a fight like that? And because of the competition from MMA and more specifically the UFC, have to give the fans the fights involving these megastars?

Well, Pachiao and Koto is the best fight that can be made from an action standpoint. Mayweather is a tremendous talent. The real problem with Mayweather is, we used to call it years ago, a fighter who stinks his opponent out. He doesn't engage. He's a great defensive fighter. People don't want to spend money watching a defensive fighter. That's the problem.

Now, it may very well be that a Pakey on Mayweather fight can be built up and people can talk about it, but in my heart and heart, I know, this will be like a hunter running around a ring looking for a deer. And that's not boxing. I mean, Mayweather will not engage his opponent. And that makes a stinking fight. And if people are being asked to spend $50 to watch it on pay-per-view, I can see they would have a reluctance.

Now, when Shrewie did big numbers, when he fought Oscar, but it was Oscar, and he conned the people. I'm going to go out, and I'm going to knock him out. People know Mayweather now. They know the son of a gun doesn't fight. He's a fight scared. Now, that's okay. I don't want it to demean it.

If this was like a pitcher, you know, who had a great curveball and struck everybody out so there was no action, it would be great. But he's a boxer, and he has to entertain. and Mayweather does not entertain. Outside the ring, yeah, he shoots up cars, he does other things like that, and he entertains. But in the ring, he's not an entertaining fighter.

So do you think that fight will bomb on pay-per-view, the Mayweather fight? I have no idea how the fight is going to do on pay-per-view. I have no idea whether the UFC fight that Dana is putting on will hurt it. For me, I look at the UFC audience and the boxing audience as being two different audiences entirely. Our audience in boxing is ethnic, Hispanic, Filipino, Puerto Rican, Mexican, and the hardcore boxing fan who can't watch, like me, can't watch UFC. UFC are a bunch of skinhead white guys watching people in the ring who also look like skinhead white guys

I take offense to that just for someone who covers the sport I'm not a skinhead I'm actually a Jew I'm not a white guy so nothing like that in MMA and you don't have any tattoos no tattoos and a lot of people I know in MMA don't have tattoos 90% of the people in the audience wear tattoos I don't care that's up to them but those aren't people that would have any

interest at any time in boxing. They wouldn't. They wouldn't. The only guy they might want to see is Kelly Pavlik. I think we would disagree on that. Let's quickly switch gears here for a second. Are you concerned at all with, and do you think, I mean, smiling, or I don't know if you're smiling at him, but it seems like a pretty brash thing to say about the sport. I mean, really, if they're two separate, why even take the shot? Because for me and people like me, it is not something that they ever care to see. They've watched it. It's. It's. It's. horrible, guys rolling around like homosexuals on the ground. I mean, it is not a sport that shows great, great talent. The guys who throw punches can't throw a punch to save their ass. When the

punches land, the guys have no chins. These are not like boxes. They are not trained like boxes. Can you really say that about a sport that's generating 1.7 million pay-per-views for UFC 100 and getting over a million for UFC 101? I mean, clearly, unless everyone is mistaken, and everyone thinks that this is a disgusting sport, something's wrong with our society, right? Well, something's wrong with your math, because there ain't no way that that's a pay-per-view generated anything like the numbers that you gave me and that they put out. I know what the numbers are.

What did they do? The numbers were south of one million. For 100? Yes. Really? Yes. So they're off by 700 or so thousand? Who's to check?

They're not a public company. Who's to check? All right, let's quickly switch gears here for a thing because I think we'll disagree on this for a while. Are you concerned at all with the controversy around where Manny Pachia is going to train and some of the distractions? Is that something on your mind leading into this fight?

No, absolutely not. Manny Pachow decided he wanted to train back in Baguio. Unfortunately, he can train most of the time in the U.S. because of tax reasons. And so Freddie and the camp are moving to Baguio after the two. and he'll be back in the United States four weeks in front of the fight. Okay, and final question, just can't get over it.

Have you ever been to an MMA fight before? Yeah, it's terrible. Terrible. Terrible. You would never... These are all my friends. The Fratitas, you know, their father, the late father who died, was a very close friend of mine. Dana White, I admire.

These guys have done a marvelous job promoting UFC. They've done extremely well. All hats off to them. But for me, it's junk. It's garbage. Any part of you a little bit upset because of how good they're doing is that's why you're taking the shot? No, I love the way they have shown us because of how well they've been doing in certain aspects to make us adapt. They do an unbelievable job on advertising on the internet.

We're following that. They do an unbelievable job in the arena with music and so forth and steaming up the crowd. We're trying to duplicate it. duplicated. They are great promoters. They are really sensational promoters and they're really good guys. So I give them all the kudos and all the credit for what they've done. There's no knock on them. These are good class guys who've really built a terrific business. But for me, MMA is garbage and junk. That's how I feel. And I would think that the majority of people in my generation would feel the same.

And that's probably the problem, right? Maybe. Your generation isn't buying the pay-per-views. Well, neither are the Mexicans and neither are the Filipinos and neither are the blacks. Well, that remains to be seen. Thanks for the time, Bob.

All right. There's Bob Aram. Back in 2009, if you're wondering, Mani Pacquo ended up winning that fight via TKO against Miguel Koto in November. And as I mentioned, this received a lot of attention and the UFC even used it as part of one of their promos to hype the UFC on Fox number one event in November of 2011.

They took this clip and they actually did a pretty good job even though they didn't ask for my permission. But it was wild to see this thing spread like wildfire because, you know, back then just trying to make a name as I mentioned and Fanhouse wasn't really known for, you know, our big video interviews and it just got picked up everywhere. Of course, when you compare MMA to homosexual activity and calling all the fighter skinheads and all this stuff, I mean, it was just very outlandish. And if you're wondering, Mayweather did generate a higher gate and sold more pay-per-views, although we don't know 100% how many pay-per-views it sold because, at least the UFC event, because they don't make this public. public, as Bob mentioned in his interview, that was also very interesting, him saying that they were lying about the UFC 100 by rate, although the UFC never actually admitted how many pay-per-views, even though it has been reported that it did around 1.6, 1.7. They never actually admitted how many it did. He said it did south of a million. Kind of sounds like these days with Bellator and the UFC. In any event, a fun look back at one of the more wild interviews. And that's, you know, what I was talking about before we went into the interview. when you're thrown a curveball like that early on, you know, I went to the next question

and then I was thinking, wait a second, I got a stick on this. So I went back to it and, you know, it was a big surprise and to hear him talk like that and to get a curveball like that. So I look back at that interview and think, man, I really kind of messed that one up and fumbled the ball. But it was one that I'll never forget. at Yankee Stadium, no less.

Thank you very much to Bob Aram. All right, hope you enjoyed it, and I hope you continue to enjoy this segment. And now it is time to answer some questions before we go home. Do we have some questions, Mr. New York, Rick? We have questions. We got answers. Hopefully we also have answers.

Ooh, that's a shot. At who? Mr. Coker? No. I think it was a good shot. That wasn't even... Well, I was told... I was told that we were going to have answers,

and quite frankly, I don't know if we got that many. I feel a little bit like I was sold some... What do they call those things? Wolf tickets? Right? I mean, am I crazy here or what? You are not crazy. Okay.

But that was not where I was going with that, but I do... Well, it was a job. Well, done. Wolf tickets, indeed. Okay, let's start with Gray Manor. this person says, I thought Gray Maynard looked good on Saturday night, the best I've seen him look since Frankie, yet it's quite clear his chin just isn't what it once was. Do you share the thought that it's probably time for him to hang up the gloves? And after contemplating retirement due to head trauma, should he even have gotten back in there in the first place? Well, that's a tough one to answer the second question. But I do think it's time. You know, again, I've said this before. I feel weird. I don't think it's our place to do it. You ask me a question, I'll answer it. I do think it's time. If I was a loved one, of Great Maynard, you know, he's not, you know, a young buck. No spring chicken. Thirty-five years old,

been through a lot, has been competing for a very long time outside of MMA. This guy who obviously was a great collegiate wrestler and all that stuff didn't take, you know, the head trauma that he takes today, but he's been through a lot. He's been an athlete for a very long time. And when you suffer three straight knockouts like that, when you also throw in the fact that he was brutally knocked out by Frankie Edgar, which I think kind of started all of this, that picture that we have right over there, UFC 136, it's just too much. And you hear what Christoph Soshensky was talking about, memory loss, and he's lucky if it's just that, if it ends at memory loss, there's a whole lot worse that you can develop over time with this, you know, this is a brutal sport. You take a lot of

strikes to the head, and sometimes you don't know when to say when, and it just gets really, really worse. So if I was a loved one of Grey Maynard, I would say enough is enough. There's no point. And you got feel for him because Fabricio Camus, who was his original opponent, is a much less, how should I put this, he's a less dangerous fighter than Ross Pearson. Pearson has developed into a solid striker, and he looked great in this fight. His boxing looked very good, and he was able to put away Grey Maynard. I don't think many people thought Fabricio Comusch would do the same. And, and, he looked, and That's a big step up in competition as well, in my opinion. So I liked what they were doing with Fabiichia.

I thought they were bringing Gray back slowly. Things change. You get put in the fight against Ross Pearson, who had a lot to prove coming up that controversial loss to Diego Sanchez, not that long ago. And now you get knocked out again. I think it's time. You asked me my opinion. I think it's time.

Am I going to go out campaign? It's ultimately his decision. But if you ask me, no more. No mas. I do agree, though. that he looked good. The game plan looked good. He was mixing it up. Yeah. Yeah, but it's like, you know, Chuck Liddell looked good before he got knocked out by Rich Franklin. I'm not trying to argue that that's a reason why, that's a reason why he should stick around and take more brain damage,

but it does put to rest. Like, I personally thought that he didn't look great in these last couple of fights where he was getting knocked out, where it was a case where he looked sloppy and then got caught. In this one, I thought he looked on point. He looked sharp, but his chin just doesn't can't hold up anymore. That's the thing. It doesn't seem like he could take a punch like he used to, and that's, you know, it's not, this is not the first time we've seen this before.

You know, Chuck Ladell used to take a lot of punches, and the guy was, you know, iron chin, and then towards the end, this just happens. I think it happened maybe a little sooner than most expected with Gray, because he was so dominant for a long time in the UFC, and, you know, he was undefeated until that Frankie Edgar loss. Well, it wasn't gradual, is the thing.

It happened overnight. Frankie Eager knocked him out, and that was it. I really think that was the beginning. We'll never know for sure. But that not... You remember that knockout of UFC 136? It was just so flush, bang, when he nailed him, and then he fell up against the cage.

And again, as we were saying with Chuck, he was so close. UFC 125, he was so close to becoming champion. Ends in a draw. 136 starts out unbelievably well, loses the fight via knockout. So you understand why he's trying to recapture that glory. But again, he's moving around, right?

He went from Extreme Couture to AKA. Now he's at Power MMA. He's searching for something, and I just don't know if it's there anymore. Really nice guy. Always been great to us. You know, always happy to see him, talk to him, all that stuff. But, you know, for his own well-being,

there are people around them, in my opinion, who have to say, enough is enough. Our next question is about Ryan Bader. Can Ryan Bader ever be more than a light-heavy-weight gatekeeper? Is there anyone in the top five that you think he could get a win over? This lists Gustafson, Cormi, Tashara, Evans, and Anthony Johnson.

Personally, I have no interest in the anticipated Rumble versus Bader fight. If Phil Davis couldn't keep him on the mat, I don't see Bader having much of a hope. That's in regard to Rumble. Yeah, and they're not including John Jones because they're going with the UFC route here with the rankings where they don't include them in the top 10, although I do include the champion in the top 10. Anyhow, of those guys, I think he has the best chance against maybe Tashara, maybe. but I don't see it. I don't see it right now.

I'd rather see Rumble versus Gustafson, but I don't know if this comes up. I would have no problem with Gustafsson saying thanks but no thanks and waiting for the winner. Now he'll have to be out for a very long time and that sucks for him and everyone involved, but he had the title shot and it's so hard to get that title shot and Rumble Johnson isn't a guy that you're just going to walk right through

so I can understand why he'll say thanks but no, thanks. If that is the case, I think the only fight that really makes sense is rumble versus Bader next. But do I think that he is going to be a champion? Have I seen that out of him as of late? Unfortunately not. I think he'll always be a very tough out. I think he'll be right there. He's not quite a gatekeeper because I think a gatekeeper is usually lower. I mean, obviously a win over Bader means a lot, but I kind of view him a step above a gatekeeper if that even exists. So what is the gate exactly? Well, no, I mean, if you beat, if you, if you beat, you beat Ryan, but I think there are other people who are, I don't know. I just, I don't, I think he's like

almost a picture perfect definition of, I don't like the gaykeeper term. I like the litmus test term. He is a litmus test. If you beat Ryan Bader, you're ready for the big time. Okay, but that's, you're not. That's the same thing. I don't like that term. I just don't like the term. That's fine by me. I have no problem with you not liking the term. Um, I also think there's kind of this thing where if somebody gets that label of gaykeeper or people think of them in that regard, they think that it's a waste of time to kind of give them that that next step up, which I don't necessarily agree with. I think if, you know, Ryan Bader continues to earn that next step up,

then he needs to get the next fight. Whether you think he's capable of beating the people in that echelon or not. No, no, he's still, yeah, of course. You know what I mean? Because I feel like people, when you get like a Bisbing, for example, they have no interest in seeing him continue to progress because they say once he gets there, it's a waste of time he's going to choke.

But whatever the case may be, I think that that's kind of like a misguided way to look at it. I think Bader has earned every time he's gotten close to the top, he's earned that ascension, and I think that he will continue to do that. And I think he's not a super young prospect anymore, but I don't think the book is written on Ryan Bader's career where he can't change something around.

And I think he could be competitive with some of these guys. You know, I got to say, I don't mind the Rashad Evans fight. I think that's a fine fight. I think that makes more sense than Dan Henderson one that Chuck brought up, right? Yeah. What the heck was that? Rashad Evans coming back because that'd be a good fight. Ryan Bader said he has a couple injuries.

So, I mean, maybe he comes back at December show in Phoenix because he's from there. That might be a little too soon. That's only three months away. Or maybe four months away. Rashad hoping to come back into the year, early next year. I think that actually makes a lot of sense. Yeah, and Bader is always dangerous with his power.

You know, he tends to be more of a wrestler than a pocket puncher when he gets to that level right before the title shot. But he's always dangerous, and I think the book is not completely written on Ryan Bader. It's not written, but if you ask me right now, does he beat those guys mention?

Sure, I mean, he's not going to be the favorite over any of those. Guys, that's a given. Okay, our next question about Kung Lee's new body. Ariel, what are your thoughts on Kung Lee's new body? I've recently seen a picture where he resembles a prime Vitor Belfort. What does Bisbing have to do to catch a break in MMA? You know, I didn't even think of that.

I have a picture. I have it. So this is, this is what he is referring to. Kung Lee posted this to Instagram yesterday. My word. Look at that. Holy moly. Will says it's chipped.

It's what? Photoshop. He can see the pixels. I'd love to see a, you know, a before and after. I don't have the before picture. But let's just say he wasn't that ripped and vast. If you want me to sit here and say like, oh, look, this guy's on steroids. I mean, I can't make that accusation.

I think that's what they want you to say, but what do you like? He looks incredible. He looks to be in the best shape of his life, or at least in his fighting career as of late. Holy moly. he is fighting in China but look the UFC catches a lot of people and TRT is no longer allowed the UFC I mean my king

my king fought in Ireland there's no commission there they caught him last last week and they cut him although I will say that was a tough finale type of fight so there's a good chance my king would have been cut anyway but let's not take anything away from it I thought they sent the right message

and kudos to them for giving Cahal Pendrad the bonus. Now, back to Kong, he looks to be in incredible shape. I mean, what more can you say? I can't accuse him of anything. He has been, you know, he said he's healthy for the first time in a long time, which can definitely contribute to that. He's also, what is he? Like, 42? I think that's, I mean, that sounds right. I'm not sure

exactly how we'll do this. He's up there. I mean, what can you say? How does Michael Bisming look? He is, uh, 42. Born May 25th, 19, 72. Nailed it. To look like that at 42 is, remarkable. And here's the thing. In this day and age, if you look like that and if you get better as time goes on, enough people have ruined it for the rest to where the first reaction is you're a

cheater. Yeah. That's just the way it is. That's the way it is in sports. So I don't blame anyone for saying that. I just can't say that. Yeah. Nobody can say definitively until, you know, the test has failed or the test has passed. Next question. There has been little to no promotion of U.S. fight night Henderson versus Dos Anjos. Why is that? It airs the same date as UFC Macau, but at a later time. Don't you two feel that a card headline by a former UFC champion would be permit to some good exposure or at least some commercials?

I had to go to UFC.com to even learn that UFC Henderson versus Dosanjos was even happening. Well, you know, I got to say I'm more interested in the Macau card than the Tulsa card. I mean, the top two fights in Macau to me are more interesting. And I really enjoy watching Benson-Henderson fight, especially after the win that he had over Rustam Javilov not that long ago. Was it early June in Albuquerque? I mean, I think he's an interesting spot because he's lost already twice to Anthony Pettis, but he's still arguably the second best guy in the division. And in my opinion, he's always fun to watch, even though some people think his style is boring sometimes,

or he just squeaks out decisions. I really enjoy watching him fight. Dosandos is a little nondescript. You know, I don't get as excited about it. He doesn't really sell his fights all that much. And, you know, look, there's more buzz for Bisping versus Lee, because Bisping and Lee sell their fights very well. Lee, as we mentioned earlier, is an attraction.

And Bisping, I mean, he's a quote machine. He's all over the place. He has like eight feuds lined up after this fight, win or lose. But that's not a product of UFC promotion. I don't really think the UFC is doing a. better job promoting one over the other. Do you see more about Bissping and Lee? I mean, maybe a little bit.

They do push the fight pass cards a little more because, well, A, I think that the ones coming up are a little better. And Bisping Lee are just big names. Yeah. And then Woodley, Dung-Yung Kim is a very important fight at 170. So, and that market is, you know, that market is obviously a lot more important to them than Tulsa, Oklahoma, even though it's their debut there.

I just think that's a better card. I mean, at least at the top. So, I don't know. I thought the Tulsa card was okay when it had Jordan Meehan and Brandon Thatch. That was a great fight. Mike Pyle versus Damian Maya. Then you had three solid fights, but they lost both Maya and Thatch, so they had to combine the two fights and make it Mian versus Pyle.

And then, you know, the main event is just one of those fights where it's like Benson just keeps, he has to keep winning to remain relevant and to remain at the top. But how far can he go as long as Pettus is the champion? And also he's fighting so. much and Pettis hasn't fought until long. It's just, the lightweight division is kind of weird right now. And both guys aren't, you know, they're not trash talkers. They're not going out of their way to sell the fight while Bispin and Lee have done a very good job of that, in my opinion. So I think that's, that's, that's what you're seeing here. I don't think the UFC is favoring

one card over the other. This one's a little bit. And by the way, it's hard enough to promote one fight card, you know, back to back. You know, so many, you know that between August 16th, this past weekend, and I believe October 11th, There's a UFC card every single weekend, at least one. I believe there's 10 and 8 weeks. That's like a full Bellator season. You know, I always said, UFC doesn't even do that.

The UFC does that now. That's amazing. Eight weeks, 10 fight cards. So we have two this weekend. This one's a bit lengthy, so bear with me. Is Alistair Overeem a bad sparring partner? Anthony Rebel Johnson is one of the best fighters in the world, no doubt. But his recent accusation of Alistair Overeem,

hurting people on purpose seems to be accurate, but hard to believe. Overeem never seemed like that type of person from listening to interviews with him that he would intentionally hurt someone outside of competition on purpose. Do you believe Rumble Johnson's accusation is true? Fellow Blacksillion teammate Gilbert Burns also said Overeem hurt Gudo in Sanch on purpose. While I'm not sure what to believe on this scenario, one thing is true. The accident hurt the U.S.C.'s biggest super fight between Daniel Cormier and John Jones. It's a true bummer to have to wait until January 3rd to see this awesome contest of two of the greatest

current generation MMA fighters. I mean, it's hard to say. And a nice sell job at the end there. It's hard to say, you know, that's just a couple of examples. And I think he was considered a bad training partner at the Black Zillions

for the most part because he just didn't train with the other guys. Like he kept to himself, he did his own thing. And I know the comments that he's talking about, but I think that was more of the issue.

From what I read and heard, it seems like it was just a freak accident this happens all the time. So I don't think it's necessarily fair to label Alster Overeigny of a bad teammate, bad training partner, etc. I think you'd have to talk to his coaches to really find out about that. And it seemed like up until this point, everything was rosy, was a great honeymoon period happening in Albuquerque between Alistair Overeign and the rest of the team at Jackson Winklejohn. So I'll chalk this one up to a freak accident. We weren't there. So how can I really comment on it? I mean, somebody called and asked. John Jones didn't call him out.

or throw him under the bus. Somebody called and asked about Jackson's as a camp in terms of people getting hurt in training for Rashad, didn't he get his leg rolled over, John Jones now. Is there something that we can glean from, you know, just going hard and sparring at that camp? Nothing different. I mean, Jones isn't a guy who's pulled out of a lot of fights.

I think all the camps go hard. I mean, there have been times where it has been brought up that the space is very small there and guys bump into each other and that's what happened with Rashad. But the good news is they're expanding to a bigger space. And I think that's a big problem in MMA. Like you have guys in boxing, everyone's there for the Floyd Mayweather camp. Everything revolves around him. In MMA, there are eight other guys with big fights coming up and then in the small gym and they're all wrestling.

sometimes it's amazing to watch. Like, they're out there on the mat doing their thing, wrestling and all that, and they could easily bump. I was there, when I was at Albuquerque doing that UFC Tonight thing in April, it was unbelievable. I was at the gym there. It was unbelievable to see how many big-name fighters were training so close to each other. A disaster could have happened at any moment.

So I think that's a little weird in our sport. And obviously, our sport's a little different because you're using all parts of your body. body to train and that is a little troublesome because it leads to more injuries. You're not just in boxing, you're using your hands for the most part. And you can get knocked down and all that, but you don't see guys, you know, tearing their meniscus like you do in MMA. No one's going at your legs. Yeah. So it's tough. It's a weird thing. You can't, you know, like, how do you prepare for a fight if you don't go 100%? You just got to be a little smarter and be aware of your surroundings and not train in these packed gems where guys are rolling into you.

But I don't know. I mean, I'm not going to call John Jones reckless or Jackson guys reckless or Overeem reckless. Sometimes these things happen in MMA, as Gus Johnson once said. That's your second Gus Johnson drop with a death. It's a great out. Next question. This person started to notice more and more often with the latest example being the

Fight Night 47 post-fight interview. When Dana gets a question from a reporter that he doesn't like or is annoyed by, he says something along the lines of, you're getting Ariel Holwani on me, buddy. What do you think is the reason for this jab at you or your thoughts in general about him doing that? I love it. What a compliment.

That means it's a good question, right? I saw him do this at the UFN 47, I guess it was. Let's call them Fight Night Main. It's a lot easier to remember. He did that when asked a question by young Mike Bonn of MMAJunkey.com. And I think Mike is doing a fantastic job. I think he asks great questions.

He's persistent. He knows the right questions to ask. And I think he asked Dana, if I recall correctly, why did they move Demetrius Johnson from 177 to 178? Why did they pick that fight? I don't think it's a bad question. Why did you pick that fight? It was already on the card.

Were there any other fights in play? You know, what was on the table? And Dana kind of looked at him like he had three heads and said, you know, now you're getting Ariel. wanting on me, buddy. That was a stupid question because he was the champion. Well, I think, you know, there's a little more to it. He didn't do great as a headlining act in his last pay-per-view, UFC 174. He was already on one show and to move him, you know, that creates a domino effect. I mean, I think it's a very valid question. So if that is the response that comes to mind when

you are asked a valid question in a sea of BS questions or softball questions or fluff questions or, you know, just giggling questions and all that. If that's the response that comes to mind while you are being thrown, you know, like, compliment and softball after softball, I'll take it every day. And yeah, I love it. Better to say my name than someone else's name, right? If that's what comes to mind, if that's the connection that has made, cool. Good on Mike Bond. Our next question, what do you make of Dina complaining about the media's label?

of War Machine as ex-UFC fighter, quote-un-unquote, shouldn't this be expected of the mainstream media as the UFC is the NBA, NFL, MLB of MMA? Well, you know, I get what he was saying to a degree. Now, obviously, it's incorrect to label Josh Crispy a UFC fighter because he's no longer in the UFC. But you can certainly label him as an ex-UFC fighter, much like you can label War Machine an ex-UFC fighter.

Now, what he was saying was, He was a current Belator fighter. So why aren't they calling him a Belator fighter? Well, obviously, UFC is a thousand times bigger than Belator. It's been around longer. People know what that term is. People know the organization. It means a lot more to say ex-UFC fighter than current Belator fighter.

I have no problem with labeling him an ex-UFC fighter. Now, what you should mention is ex-UFC fighter and current Belator fighter. I think that's, you know, the most accurate way of describing the guy. but if a news organization is going to call, see, if I was running, well, M.M.M.A.Fundi.com, we wouldn't make the headline XUFC because we're up with the news and everything. I mean, we know that it has been a while since War Machine fought in the UFC and was on the Ultimate Fighter.

If I was running a random news organization, like the Associated Press, and they don't know who War Machine is, they don't know who Bellator is, I would have no problem with saying, UFC fighter did so and so. But at MMAfighting.com, I can only speak for ourselves. We didn't label him as an ex-UFC in the headlines or anything like that. I mean, that seems like a stretch, right? I mean, he hasn't fought there in multiple years.

He's fought for numerous organizations since then, including most recently Beltoe, which in our world is a big deal because we cover the sport day-to-day basis. But if he's talking about the job... general media that was covering this story, and there was a lot of them covering. I couldn't believe how many people started covering this story, calling him ex-UFC fighter. It's just a way to describe a guy and to gain people's attention and to also tell people about, you know, in a nutshell, who this man is. Same way if you play, look, they call Brendan Schaub an ex-N-Fel player. They call Matt Mitri-owned an ex-NFL player. You know, they call these guys who had a cup of coffee in the

NFL, ex-NFL players. The UFC I'm talking about. So that's just the way it is. I mean, I can understand him trying to remove himself from the situation or wash their hands at the situation, but this is done in every media story involving every player, every athlete who had a cup of coffee in any organization. Well, I mean, also, if you want the positive rub of UFC being synonymous with MMA, this is the negative side that's going to naturally come with it.

and I imagine that, you know, the UFC wants to be MMA or, you know, the equivalent in most of the general public's mind. So you have to take the negative with it as well. Yeah, they want websites on the, what are those things called? Like the navigation bar, they want it to say UFC as opposed to MMA. And of course, I'm sure they'd rather you just cover the UFC, but the point is, even if you had that cup of coffee, you're still an ex-UFC fighter. Now, if you just completely ignore the fact that he is Bellator, all that, that is a little weak, but you can't expect these other news organizations that never, I mean, real, you know, major, not just sports news, CNN, you can't expect him to start listing all these organizations that he fought for.

The biggest is the UFC and he fought for them. He's an ex-UFC fighter. But again, MMA websites, I don't think they should say ex-UFC fighter in the headline because it's been a while. Our next question, you may or may not have heard this. Thoughts on Chale's interview on The Talk is Jericho podcast last week. And do you think we will see the bad guy back in broadcasting for the USC? Or for Fox, because he wasn't actually. I did hear it.

And I must say that I was very impressed by a couple things. A, I thought Jericho did a very good job. These wrestlers are surprising me. Much like Stone Cold, I thought he asked great questions and great follow-ups and listening. very well. I kind of thought that he buried the lead, to be honest. I mean, they got into all the drug and commissioned stuff a little later on, but, you know, he's not a journalist, and they were kind of catching up on how they met, and their backgrounds, and, you know, the stuff that they had in common and all that stuff. But all that being said, I thought he did a great job. And what I

liked most about it was, I thought it was like a K-Fabe Chales-Sun in an interview. And if you don't know what I mean, this is what I mean. It felt like for the first time in a very, long time, that was the real Chelsunnan. Remember, on this show and many others, Chal Sondon said that he never watched pro wrestling. On the Jim Rome show, famously before UFC 117, he said that that wasn't him

who said that Lance Armstrong gave himself cancer. He finally admitted to a lot of things that he had been fibbing about for a very long time. It felt like the gimmick had been dropped. Now, there were a few other things that I think he was stretching a little bit, but for the most part, it felt

like we were getting the real Chal Sondon. It felt like he was in a good place. I was almost somewhat shocked by not how, I don't want to dismissive is not the right word, but it just felt like he was unaffected by everything. Yeah, it's just two years. And, you know, I'm going to try out for the Olympics maybe and do this and that. It's just, to me, it's like, wow, spending two years, maybe your reputation has been, you know, dragged through the mud and you lost your job with the UFC as far as broadcasting is concerned. A lot of bad things have happened, have happened to Chale Sondon as of late. It seemed like he was still the same old positive chale. You got to give him credit for that. And I want to hear more of that. And most interesting

was the fact that he said, if I could give anyone a piece of advice, come clean. People are a lot more apologetic if you just come clean right off the bat. And I wish he took his own advice because I believe that if you would have, if you would have came clean right off the bat the first time and was less confrontational, I think he might still have a job with Fox. But he didn't do that. And good to hear that he learned from his mistakes. And I just thought he was very truthful and honest and for the most part. And it was a fun conversation between two guys who obviously respected each other a lot. So if you haven't heard it, I highly recommend checking it out.

Yeah, this is the Chale that I like to hear. Much more than the gimmicky. Yeah, I listened to it. It was good. And I'm not, you know, I like Chale's schick and I'm all about him hyping up fights. But I much like when I much prefer when he pulls back the curtain and, you know, speaks candidly on things like this. And that's what makes Chale so interesting,

is that he has this kind of on-off switch where right after he loses, he can assess his fight in an objective way and kind of talk about his performance and talk about what went wrong in a way that a lot of people can't. And in this case, he talked about being busted for illegal substances and talked about it very candidly.

And that's why I like Chale so much. And now we will move on to the Twitter portion of the show. Yeah, he needs to go that route more often these days now to as he starts to, oh gosh, excuse me. As he starts to rehabilitate his image, people are very, they're very open to this kind of thing. They're very sympathetic. When you come out and say, I messed up, that's what he should have done the first time. It's unfortunate that he didn't. and it's...

I feel like he's... I feel like he's kind of bulletproof, though. Like, he can mess up so many times nobody's ever... Man, that was pretty bad, but the commission, they gave him out. The commission made him sympathetic.

By trying to stop him from doing the Mennemorous thing, all of a sudden, El Sondon became like, oh, poor Chal Sennan, they're stopping him from making a living. He became the good guy again. It's unbelievable. Yeah, every...

I feel like the main thing for Chal Sondon is everybody who's had a personal interaction with him kind of has a, a story, and it's usually a positive one. He's a very likable guy. That he's so likable, and, you know, it makes him almost bulletproof, no matter what happens professionally. It's amazing.

His spin on things is just amazing. Yeah. Okay, first question from Twitter. Where do you rank Tim Boch among the best homecoming performances? Hmm. It's pretty good. I mean, Tim Boch hasn't always been associated with Maine, and he's fought out of Washington, Pennsylvania.

Like when I think Tim Boch actually just learned, I mean, he's not Mr. Maine, you know what I mean? Like GSP is Mr. Montreal. You heard he got a big pop from Chuck, though. Chuck said he was there. No, no, no, I know that. But there's some other guys who comes to mind. I'm trying to think here.

You know, the Albuquerque guys got big pops. Connor McGregor got a big pop. Connor, there you go. I mean, it's tough for me to think of these in the third hour. But you know what I'm saying? What made it great was the comeback. You know, the comeback was great. The finish was great. And then everyone rose to their feet and everyone gave him a great ovation and showering him with all this love. And not quite up until that point. I mean, the night was getting off to a slow start. It started to pick up at the main card. But I think people were really hoping to erupt for a nice moment. And with him starting off a bit slow and getting rocked and coming back with a dramatic win like that, it was great. So it's up there. But I never really associated him with Maine and, you know, being the great fighter. I mean, Mike Brown, when I think of Maine, I think of Mike Brown and Tim Sylvia. I think of Mike Brown first, to be

honest, even though Tim Sylvia was known as the maniac, because Mike Brown always talked about wanting to fight in Maine, and that was the dream of his. Unfortunately, it didn't come to fruition. So that's who I think about. But after learning about him and his connection to Maine and all that stuff and then getting this and the reaction, yeah, it was great, but I wouldn't put it up there. our next question hypothetically of brock came back after winning last night at summer slam would you say he would be more popular than the first stint hmm that's a good question i think he'd be super popular he's very popular now

but i don't know if w w e is as popular today as it was back then and i don't know if the ufc is as popular today as it was back then maybe the ufc is definitely more mainstream more shows but as you saw with the John Jones Cormei thing, when a big thing happens, it gets picked up. I think it's tough to say. I mean, it was so new and the novelty of this guy coming from pro wrestling, leaving WWE at his peak, the way he left WWE, tried out for the NFL, it came to the UFC 1 and 0. I mean, all that just made it all that more interesting. We've seen him in the UFC. It's not as fresh. I think he would be very well received. I don't know if it would be as big. Also, let's not forget.

The Frank Mier rivalry was great because Mier beat him. They had a tremendous back and forth. UFC 100. I mean, a lot of things, the stars aligned for Brock Lester. And he deserved, and he was a big part of it, but it was almost right place at the right time. If Brock Lester enters the UFC as a 1-0 fighter today, I don't even know if he gets the title.

I don't know if he gets that far. I think the talent pool in the UFC, even at heavyweight, which may be its most shallow division, is a lot better today than it was just a few years ago. I did not watch wrestling at the time when Brock was entering. Was he like at the top of the game when he came over? Yeah, he was champion, all that stuff. Headline WrestleMania.

He was a big deal. So it's like his popularity then and now would be like equivalent. It's not like he because I, he was a bigger deal on WW back then because he was more, he was not more relevant, but he had more dates, like he was a bigger part of the show. Now he wrestled,

I mean, the last time he wrestled was WrestleMania, right? So it's been a while. He only works a certain amount of dates. Back then, he was on every week and all that stuff. You know, so he was more, he was seen more, more visible. That's the word I'm looking for. He was more visible. Okay.

This is less of a question, but I know we have beaten this horse today. death, but you have to bring up UFC 177 is so bad that it's on Groupon today. Okay, so I have a confession to make. I don't really know what Groupon is. Okay, so let's look at the page. So here's Groupon. Do you know what Groupon is?

Can you explain this to me? So Groupon is a website where you register, and they send you deals that, or, you know, offers that are local to your area to purchase at a reduced rate. So let's say it's like 10 kayaking. sessions. Instead of paying whatever that price is directly to the vendor, you can buy it from Groupon for a discount. So in this case, it looks like the discount is 31% off the face value of UFC tickets to...

Wow. And this isn't something that happens often? I mean, the reason it might not happen is because it's considered a discount item at that point. Like, if you can't sell it, then that's really. when it goes on Groupon. So that's why I imagine that it's a big deal. Well, I got to say, I'm surprised because Dill Shaw is from Sacramento and he is the champion. I don't know. What's the question? Or is it more of a statement? It was more of a, it was a statement,

but I guess the question that's implied is like, are ticket sales that bad? Yeah, I haven't looked into the ticket sales. It's not something I usually do. I mean, you usually hear about Buzz and things like that, you know, around this time before a fight. But I am surprised, if this is an indication that tickets sales are bad, I am surprised to hear that because I thought, even though it wasn't the most stack card in UFC history, I mean, that's clear. No one will tell you otherwise with a straight face. I mean, it's still a big deal. The guy is a champion. First guy from Sacramento. You'd think that's a big deal locally, right? That's why they moved this card from Vegas to Sacramento. It may not be an indicator of that because you don't know how many of these are available.

sure um you need to have more context and more details to to make any inference off this um but i do think it is rare i don't think i've ever heard of ufc tickets on groupon i feel like i could be wrong maybe maybe that's happened i could be wrong i feel like i've heard that before but it's like people seem to be talking about it much more in this case yeah of course people always trying to look oh wait it's ufc 177 my bad uh people always try to jump on that stuff i mean let's be honest not a great cart. It's not stacked. Yeah. It's not 178. It just isn't.

You know, that's why I put, you know, I said it to him, I don't consider Tony Ferguson. I don't think Tony Ferguson versus Danny Castillo should be called a co-main event. To me, a co-main event means... Oh, no, not this again. Yes, but it's true. You disagree? I'll say the same thing I said last time. Did I say this last

time? You and I had a back and forth about this. Who cares what it's called? It's the co-main event because it's the second to last fight on the card. But that's not right. What do you mean that's not right? Who cares, like, what it's called? I care because not all co-main events are created equally.

That's, yeah, but not all main events are created equally. It's the main event because it's the last fight. It's the co-main event because it's the second to last fight. Okay, let me ask you this. Given the UFC's history in the last couple years, if Barrow-Dillishaw fell through. Okay, yep. Would Castillo Ferguson be a suitable main event?

I don't think people would pay for that on pay for that on pay-per-view. No. They would cancel it. Yeah. So how is it a co-made event? Okay, but so any card that you can... So your barometer is if the co-main event can't fill in as a replacement main event, I don't think there are any of those anymore.

I don't think those exist anymore. No, yeah, I think there are. UFC 175 Rousey Davis bless you I mean that's that's one let's let's open up this month

okay let's look at the past UFC's right yeah let's go through the last couple of paper views well UFC 174 was I think you could have gotten away with Kormier Henderson I think there's a legit co-main event Okay, so the What was that, 173, right?

What was the main event on 173? Brow Dillshaw. So that falls through. Cormier-Henderson. They continue with the pay-per-view? Yeah. Okay, what about 172? Well, that was Anthony Johnson

versus Phil Davis. It's fine. That's a co-main event. My point is, that's a big enough fight. It's important to this division. 171. What was that? That was a great card, actually.

actually, 171. It was, right? Yeah. Hendricks Lawler, Woodley Condit. I don't see... That's a co-main event. I see a different... I certainly, I'm not going to argue with you...

Rashad Kormier. That was the fight, right? That's a co-main event. I'm not going to argue that this fight is equivalent to those fights. Aldolama's... But what I'm saying is the degree, the magnitude, the degree of magnitude between them is not different in the... Where it deserves a different label of some sort.

It's the same... Rousy Tate, co-main event. Sonnen Evans, co-main event. Yeah. You feel me? Castillo. Cormi Nelson, co-main event. I'm going one by one here.

So, okay, so what's the threshold? At first, you said it was if they sell a pay-per-view, if the main fight falls out. And now, obviously, as we're going through these, these guys would not all the fights you just listed would be able to carry a pay-per-view. It's just if it's a big fight, you know what I mean? If it's just like, oh, this fight is, important is big, big name. You know, it's like you can't,

I can't describe, the UFC is different now. There's, yeah. The UFC is just different. Why do they have to call it a co-main event? Why can't they just say? Look, if they took it out tomorrow yeah, I'm not going to be rallying in the streets for the replacement, for the return of co-main event. But that's just a title that's assigned to it right now.

And it just has to, that's the way it is. Fine, I'll drop it. Is that what you're saying? You want me to drop it? No, but we did. Like we did. We did the, the, the, the, the, the, the, it's the term, the misuse of the term co-main event? I mean, do we have to institute the official people's main event? Like, now do you have to come on board and point out what is the true second best fight or first best even?

Sometimes, look, that's why I got into all this people's main event stuff, because sometimes the co-main event just wasn't up to snuff. Do you want to know what the people's main event for 177 is? Is that what you're asking? I should start announcing the people's main event on the MAR. Okay. it is you ready well to me i really like the basler betch koha fights that's people's main event those obvious one that one could determine the number one contender for all we know right so now is

that a co-main event let's say that was the second's last fight i thought that was going to be the co-main event yes did you not think so i don't care about co-main event well your loss um you know i got to say though if it did though would you would you would you feel like it was any different in terms of the Ferguson Castillo. Look, it doesn't even matter. They're all three-round fights. Who cares where they're at? You know, I was getting people who were asking me,

oh, man, I can't believe Soroni v. Green is the co-main event, and they just bumped down Connor versus Dustin Porier. Who cares? What's the difference? Wait a minute. Who cares? Wait, wait, wait, hold on. Maybe it's too, we're too deep into the show.

That's what I'm saying about the co-main event. No, no, no, no. Look, the point is, I would be okay with either of those fights being co-main event because Theroni... Oh, so now they're... Oh, those two are both worthy. Yeah, those are good fights. Okay, that's fair. I understand.

I understand. Those two are both worthy of being in. Oh, he should be so pissed. Okay, okay. I cares about that. All I'm saying is, if you got nothing, don't call it a co-main event. But I just want to say about UFC 177. I know it's a little thin.

But there are some interesting stories, Henry Sehu. Hugo making his UFC debut. I like that against Scott Jorgensen. But if this was a fight pass card, it would have fit right in. I mean, I'm not a fight night. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. Joe Soto, and by the way, a lot of these are undercard fights. Joe Soto making his UFC debut, former Belator champion.

Brunson versus Larkin, I'm down with that. Yeah. Ramsey Nijim versus Carlos Diego Ferreira, undefeated, or Fahe. And I like the bitch guy. It's unfortunate. Even though the Demetrius fight was a little wonky, it was like, all right. It legitimized it. Yeah, it legitimized it.

Yeah. Cool. We got two cards coming up this weekend. Oh, that's it. That's it. Okay, let's look at the odds. Do you want to do it? No, you do it.

Okay. Well, or have you seen them? No. Not yet. What do you mean? Not yet. Are you going to look at them right now? No, I'm going to look at them eventually.

But you don't know. I have not seen them. Can I trust you? can either trust me or not trust me. I don't really... Okay, here we go. Kung Lee, Michael Bisping. I'm picking the favorites.

Yes. Same deal? Yeah. Michael Bisbing, for sure. Yeah. Minus 256, Lee plus 274. What do you think of that? This is about right, actually.

I mean, it's hard to say. I mean, we just saw how Kung looks. He looks incredible right now, so who knows how, you know, that'll affect performance. But I think that's about right. Tyron Woodley versus Dungan Kim. I'm going to go with Woodley. No? No, no.

I said, mm-hmm. Oh. But yeah, it has to be close because stun guns is still one of the top guys in that division. Minus 135, Woodley, Kim plus 127. So very close. Yeah. I'd say that's about to pick them. I like both of those fights a lot.

Those are great fights. Only on track pass. Okay, that's it for Macau. Nothing else. What, really? Yeah, let's go to Tulsa, though. A bunch. Okay.

Chris Heatherly versus Ben Saunders, the returning Ben Saunders. Kill a B. Minus 3.41 for Saunders plus $2.99 for Heatherly. Aaron Phillips versus Matt Hobar. Oh, geez. I don't remember how either of them performed in their last U.S. fight, so I'm going to go, I think, with Hobar.

Yep. Minus 201 versus plus 185. Benil Darius versus Tony Martin. Darius. Yep. Minus 110 versus plus 103. Neil Magny. That's close.

That's a really close fight. Yeah. Neil Magny versus Alex Garcia. Like Alex Garcia? Yeah. I think Garcia. he proved that he had the gas tank to go three rounds. So that was a good performance for him last time.

I think that he'll be the favorite. Correct. Minus 141 versus plus 128. Also close. Another close one. Chas Skelly versus Tom Ninnamaki. I remember being impressed by Skelly. I don't remember if he won or lost.

I think he won, but like it was a close fight last time. So I think Nini Maki will be the favorite though. Correct. minus 136 versus plus 123. I like that fight. Yeah, that is good fight. I like Ninnamaki. Interesting trend developing here.

I'll get to in a second. James Vic, he's back, versus Walmere Lazaro. I don't know who Lazaro is. Has he fought in the UFC? I don't think so. I guess I'm going to go with Vic then. Let me just see here.

Man, it's been a while since Vic fought. It's really been, it's been almost exactly a year. Remember he had that great win, the first FS1 show. Yeah, Lazaro has won a whole bunch in a row. Holy moly. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, eleven. Last fought for a shoot at Brazil. Wow.

So who are you picking? I said Vic just because he's fought in the UFC. I don't know enough. Yeah, Vic 147 and Lazaro plus 135. Max Hall, oh wait, this fight got canceled. Max Hall. I think I just saw this, right? Bechtick, right?

Yeah. Let me see here. UFC News, I think, tweeted it earlier. Mirzad, Bechtik out of UFC Fight Night with an injury. C.C. steps in to fight Holloway, making his UFC debut. Clay collard. so I guess there are no odds for that. I know nothing about clay collar. So we'll skip that one. That's Max Holloway returning. Okay, here we go. The top three.

Talas Ladies versus Francis Caramont. That's a weird one because Carmon's stock is down and latest has looked pretty good. I'm going to go Dallas. First and correct. Is it close? Yeah, it's close. 147 for Carmel and Talis Ladies plus 135. I can dig that.

I can drive with that. So that's one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, seven in a row. I'm including the Holloway one, which got canceled. That were all in the 100s. Oh, wow. I mean, you know, that's good matchmaking right there. That's a good fight card. Now, obviously, it comes with the caveat that the odds makers are not, you know,

always right and that's not indicative of how close the fights actually are but typically it's a pretty decent guideline so that means that hopefully that these will be some you know really close exciting fights i wonder i wonder how many of these odds makers have actually seen these guys i mean i just if that's your job you you have got to be watching the tape yeah um otherwise Because let's say you're an odds maker and you haven't watched the tape and you set that line Whoever you're setting that line for is going to lose money when the people who have watched the tape end up betting on your bad line. Right, right, right. So let's say I put Kung Lee as a minus 1,000 favorite over Michael Bisping and then everybody starts betting on Bisbing.

You're going to lose that whoever you set that for is going to lose money. So, I mean, there would be really no excuse if you haven't watched. the tape on on these guys. Okay, finally, Benson Henderson versus Hafeel dos angios. Uh, Benson. Yeah. Benson minus 293, Dosangos plus 285. That was it?

Is there not another fight on this car? Um, there might be. But yeah, like I said, I don't think so, actually. Like I said, it got kind of killed by the fact that Mian versus that. That's a great. Yeah, that is a fun one. And Pyle versus Maya was great as well. So that was a solid top three.

Wait, so aren't, isn't Pyle still fighting on this card? Yeah, we already, oh yeah. We didn't do that one. Oh, sorry, I skipped one, my bad. Yeah, you're right. What, what the heck happened? Meen versus Pyle. Did you see the odds?

No. This is interesting. I'm guessing Mian, but maybe. Close, though. Minus 194, Pyle plus 175. I mean Pyle's man Pyle had a really good street going then he kind of got back to the up and down that he had leading into it so we'll see but I mean Jordan Mian I think he's a legit prospect I think he's going to come out and have a good performance let me ask you something when you go to

this best fight odds website did we actually do them all because now I'm going to actually go to the we're done when you click on a guy's name and then it tells you like all his past fights it just tells you the odds but it doesn't tell you if you want or not or does it and I'm missing No, it doesn't. It's kind of weird, right? Then you want to look at the record? Yeah, I guess you have to open Wikipedia as well. It's annoying.

Just put a W next to his name. You know what? If your name... I could be wrong, but let me just double-check this. If your name is on top, you won the fight. Oh, you think? And if your name is on bottom... Well, I just don't know that.

No, that's BS. I mean, look at it. I know, but you'd have to know enough about the fights. No, I don't think so because didn't he... Okay, let's look here. Benson beat Habilov. He beat Thompson. He lost to Pettis.

He beat Melendez. He beat Dez. He beat Edgar. I think that might just be the... No, I think that's accurate. Okay, so I'm looking at Mike Pyle, right? Chris Wilson is on top and Pyle beat him. Well, well, there goes that then. Yeah.

All right. Well, that's their problem. problem. So yeah, I guess there is there's not a way to see who did end up winning that fight. Silly. All right, well, that does it. Two UFC fights this weekend

and there's also Titan on Friday. Mike Reachey versus George Sutteropoulos and also there's RFA on Friday. So a busy week in the world of MMA and I'm sure a lot of other

news by the time we talk to you again. on Monday next week. You can hit my music. There. Well, a fun show this week. I want to thank everyone who tuned in. I want to thank everyone who stopped by. Thank you very much to Chuck Mindenhall

for offering his thoughts and opinions on UFC Fight Night Main. Thank you very much, you Scott Coker. Great to talk to Scott. And best of luck to him as he enters this new chapter in his life. Bill to returning September 5th on Spike TV. Thank you very much to Dean Thomas for stopping by,

early morning for him or late night for him. I'm guessing it was a late night. He probably had three or four more nights at the club in Hong Kong doing his thing. But I appreciate him stopping by, and best of luck to Tyron Woodley this Saturday against Danyang Kim. Thank you very much to Danny Castillo. Good luck to him at UFC 177. I'll be there.

No UFC for me. weekend no Tulsa, no Macau, but I'll be at 177. I'll also be at Foxwoods a few days later. Thank you very much to Josh Barnett, even though you made me a little sad. Doesn't seem like he's coming back anytime soon. Best of luck to him and whatever the hell he's doing. And thank you very much to Christoph Soshensky. Best of luck to him post-fighting. And glad to hear that his health issues aren't all that serious. Of course, memory loss very serious, but at least right now not suffering from anything else and we wish him the best as he embarks on life after fighting. Thank you to everyone who tuned in. If you missed anything, check it out. iTunes Stitcher, MAPFIN.com.

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