MMA Fighting - The MMA Hour - Episode 246

Episode Date: September 8, 2014

Featuring Luke Thomas, Thiago Silva, Henry Cejudo, Anthony Johnson, Stephan Bonnar, Muhammed Lawal, and Wanderlei Silva's lawyer Ross Goodman. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hello again, everyone. I'm Ariel Hawani inside our New York City studio following a very busy weekend in the world of mixed martial arts. I like this weekend very much because, you know, they had that Friday event. Foxwoods, Connecticut. Beautiful drive Thursday morning from my apartment in Brooklyn to Foxwoods, two and a half hours or so, no traffic. It was very nice. Event on Friday, and everyone seemed to have a bit of a pep in their step because of the whole Bel-Tor UFC thing. There was some buzz in the air. And then I went home Saturday morning and had a very nice weekend. So I like that. More, basically what I'm trying to

say is more Northeast Friday shows, they would be great. And great ones. I mean, we had some great fights. On Friday at Foxwoods, Bell Tour was entertaining in their own right. But the main card at Foxwoods, and by the way, if you've never been to an event there, and I know they don't hold a lot, I do suggest checking it out because the venue is so small, it only holds around 4,000, but it's an intimate 4,000, and you can hear everything. Like, Ray Longo, Matt, Sarah, cornering, you can hear them. You can hear the punches. You can hear when the fighters go to the mat.

It's pretty cool. And the media was like right up against the cage. So I suggest checking it out if they do go back to Foxwoods at any point of the future. So we have a lot to discuss. It was a very busy week since, of course, we last spoke on Tuesday of last week. And a lot has happened over the weekend. A lot coming up this weekend. UFC, Bellator, 1FC, World Series of Fighting, RFA, Cage Warriors, Bama, all have events this weekend.

They're going to all be overshadowed by Floyd Mayweather, but they still all have events. So we have a lot to get to. Who's joining us on today's show? All right. Round 345. We'll take your questions and comments. Hit us up, as always, using. the hashtag the MMA hour, leave a question or comment in the comment section below.

Round 325, we're going inside the vault. Got a fun one this week, one that has been talked about for many, many years, so looking forward to that one. 305, we're going to talk to Vanderley Silva's lawyer, Ross Goodman. You know Ross Goodman, if you follow this sport closely. He has represented a lot of MMA fighters, most notably perhaps Nick Diaz a few years back when he was suspended for a second time due to marijuana metabolites found in his system. And back of the day, actually, he was one of the owners of WFA when they tried to revive that organization.

Also, the son of former Las Vegas mayor, Oscar Goodman, and current Las Vegas mayor, Caroline Goodman. How about that? 245, we'll talk to King Mulawal, big win for him over Dustin Jacoby. This past Friday at Bell Tour 123, kid. 225, we'll talk to Stefan Bonner about that bizarre scene inside the cage on, Friday with Justin McCulley and Tito Ortiz and just him signing with Bellator now, leaving the UFC, coming out of retirement, all that stuff. 225, Stefan Bonner will join us. At 205, we'll talk to Anthony Rumble Johnson. Is he going to fight Alexander Gustafson? It seems like the mauler has taken

the bait. We'll see if it actually happens right now. Not official, but all signs point to yes, I would think. So we'll talk to Anthony about that and just his resurrection as a UFC light heavyweight as of late. 145, we're going to talk to Henry Sehudo in his first interview since he failed to make wait at UFC 177 two weekends ago, and his UFC debut was supposed to be his UFC debut, never happened. He, of course, is the 2008 Olympic gold medalist in freestyle wrestling, and at 125, we're going to talk to Tiago Silva, who all of a sudden is back in the UFC. Charges dropped stemming from an incident back in early February. He was supposed to fight once, injured his knee, and late last week, we got the word that all charges were dropped because his ex-wife was uncooperative

and apparently has fled the country and now charges dropped. Not acquitted, charges dropped. UFC decided to re-sign him afterwards. So we'll talk to him about that at 125. But first, let us go to the Skype machine and welcome in colleague of mine over at MMAfighting.com. There he is, in full effect, the beard himself, about to go on vacation. So he was so kind to join us to talk about what has been a very busy weekend in MMA, and he's not going to be with us on the beat this week. So we wanted to get his thoughts. Luke, how are you?

I'm good, and thank you for having me. I'll have to warn you. I am at home, and my dogs are asleep. Uh-oh. But they wake up. I can't promise you this will be a calm scene. Just never know. But they should be good.

I've drugged them. Will they wake up at the sound of your voice? Are they those kind of dogs? No, no. They're all right. They're good to go right now. Are you on vacation right now? Technically, technically, but I still have a couple of editorial duties that haven't finished yet,

but I don't like get on a plane until Wednesday. I guess I'm in like half vacation mode, half, whatever, but it's technically my vacation day. Where are we going on Wednesday? Istanbul. Wow. Wow. That's cool. Yeah, well, you know, wife's going to get pregnant this year, I think.

so. Look at you. Kind of putting the cart before the horse there, no? I mean, gutty, like, you know? Yeah, maybe. But I just mean, like, you're going to go and see cool things. Unless you can't be transparent, obviously, but it's a little bit more relaxed if it's just doing your wife.

And by the way, I don't know if you got the memo or not, but there are no vacations in me. There's like 900 events happening this weekend. What do you think of that? I mean, you're going to miss all of them. How are you going to live? I think this very conversation that I have more work to do, and I'm talking to you on your show on my vacation day

is evidence that your thesis is correct. All right. Well, let's talk about this past weekend. We had Invict on Saturday. Of course, UFC Bell Tour on Friday. Early word is that the UFC won, maybe the overnight ratings, but we'll see how it all shakes out. But forget about all that.

As far as the product is concerned, who's the big winner this weekend, in your opinion? Well, it's hard to even compare them. Not just because of the stature, one versus two, in terms of the organizational ranking, if there were such a thing, but because they're so bizarrely different. I mean, we're not really even evaluating the same kind of thing.

Certainly, you would say that the UFC had a great weekend, main event delivered. Early indications are that they did win in the ratings. Lots of different winners came out of that show that you can really use. I thought Jacques, Ray is really going to be a guy they can move forward to keep that middleweight division hot. I think a lot of people are interested now

in seeing him against, assumably. or I should say presumably Chris Wydenman. I was a little bummed about what happened to Justin Skagans, but he's still very early in his career. So I would say that the UFC won pretty big. But with Bellator, it's like I don't even really know what, I don't even know what that was, much less how to grade it. I do think that they came close in the ratings was a good thing,

but ultimately I wouldn't, I don't want to overextend the analysis to say that because it was relatively close, that therefore we can read heavily into it. I don't think that's the way to do it. Plus, you know, it was a different product, on a basically different time, a very different kind of channel. So I would say this, listen, Invicta 1 in their own way, lots of positives about it, some negatives too, which I'm sure we'll get to.

With Bellator, we're talking about it in a way that we never really did with Rebony's product, even if I have some other major issues with it. And the UFC put on a pretty fantastic fight night. So if you're an MMA fan and an MMA company, lots of things to look to to say, this went well for us. So let's stick with the UFC first. It seems like right now no word exactly. what they're going to do with Jacques-Carray.

Will they have him sit on the sidelines for three months until the Wydeman-Belford fight happens? Does he fight someone else? If you're Joe Silva, what do you do with him? You would have to think that Jacques-Are is next. You would have to think that, so where he's ranked in the division kind of matters, what he's done in terms of a resume kind of matters.

He's also not getting a younger. He kind of want to push it. And if Wydenman wins in a way that I think some people think you will, now that he's facing TNT Vitor Belvoir, it opens the door to I think a lot of people after watching what Jacques Garay did against Musassi and maybe other matches too

but really against Musassi they're thinking okay this guy has a legitimate chance to beat Chris Wyman not just that it'd be kind of a hot match between a champion and a guy who's sort of making a name for himself in the division it's like wow you know I think he can stuff Wyman's takedowns and I think if you want to get his own

and I think he could take Wyatman's back and he could out grapple him on the mat and I think there's a real things you could point to and sell a championship match but beyond that though I would get You just never know with these matchmakers anymore. You never know which way the things are going to turn. So, for example, you have Romero versus Kennedy coming up.

What if one of those guys has just a balls-out amazing performance? You would say, well, hold on. This guy moves to the front of the line. Already Kennedy is sort of, I think, in the same place or near or even above, Gagard Musassi. Let's also not forget, it is two months away, but you have Rockhold versus Bisping. Again, let's assume Rockhold does interesting things there. Let's also assume for just a second that maybe Chris Wydenman, wins such a way where he has to get further physical therapy

or has some kind of injury that's not traumatic or longstanding, but just coordinates timelines. For me, I wouldn't quite call out a sweepstakes. I would say that Jacques-Rae certainly is the front of the line. Lots you can do with that. But I would not also discount those two matchups, Romero v. Kennedy and Bisping v. Rockhold. If the winner wins in such a dramatic, amazing, compelling way,

I would at least open the door to the possibility they could leapfrog ahead of him. So a lot of big ifs, and you mentioned Rockhold Bisping. UFC made that fight official on Friday right before the Foxwood show. And yes, I'm going to take credit for that fight happening because they were leaning towards it. And Dana told me backstage, as I said on this show, that it was the stupidest thing he's ever heard me say when I said that was the bigger fight, Rockhold Bisping. And then a few days later, they make the fight. So, in your opinion, was that the right fight to make?

Rockhold Bisping and not Rockhold Machita or even wait to see what happened with Jacques Grey and do that rematch. I can see how apt, like if you lived, if you just brought an alien to Earth and you sort of show them the rankings and their resumes without really a whole lot of footage or certainly knowing the context of their relationships, you would say, well, yes, this is, I mean, yes, Machia is coming up of a loss, but certainly he looked quite capable against Moidman. It's looked very good at middleweight. Why not do that match with Rockhold? It's not a crazy idea. It's just that in the world in which we live, Bisping Rockhold, it's completely. a no-brainer. First of all, I'm a man censored. Get a plug. And I remember Michael Bisping during the commercial break looking over me going, I don't know if I should have said that and then smiled about it. So he went ahead and said it anyway. That particular bond, if you want to call it that, that they have, Bisping and Rockhold, it's simply absurd to sort of make, to do away with it. When the fight game, a lot of promotional matchmaking is working with

what the wind is at your back, right? It's sort of taking what they give you, nicely packaging it. It's not about forcing things together if you can avoid it. This is one where you don't have to avoid it. They're in similar positions now, particularly with Bispings, very convincing one over Cungley. Again, Rockold's done pretty well in his career, but, you know, that lost to Vitor was bad. He had looked nice against Tim Bouch, but he still got some work to do too. So even from a credibility standpoint, they're in pretty similar positions. And then when you have that extra animosity, which seems very organic, by the way, and longstanding. It's been going on for years now. It would simply be ridiculous to overrun that, so of course it's the right match to make.

Somewhat of a shocker in the co-main event when, you know, Ben Rothwell comes out and doesn't look great. I mean, to me, Overeem was winning early on. We thought that he had broken his forearm, but word comes out now that it wasn't broken, but he still had it, you know, in some kind of like splint afterwards. And once again, you know, Overeem looks good early, and then for whatever reason he fades and gets knocked out. What do you do with Alistair O'Reem now if you're at the UFC? You can't get rid of him because he would be hugely valuable to Viacom, right? Because you could give him one of those glory slash Bellator deals. There's good matchups for him in Belator. We just saw Lavar Johnson versus Czech Congo. LeVar would be another one. Although, crazily enough, I wouldn't rule out

the possibility of LeVar winning. But this is what you have with Alster Overeem. It's not that he's not a Supreme technician. The things he has shown in his kickboxing career and in his MMA career, he is capable of greatness. These are not flukes or accidents or these rare moments of inspiration. He is a better fighter than these guys. But these guys,

particularly some of the Dutch guys you're seeing also now with Melvin Manhoff, a lot of the way they train and a lot of the way they fight, the chickens are coming home to roost. These guys who have for a long time lived on the sword and died by it too. And that was okay when you're in your 20s a little bit. They're a little bit longer in the tooth now, not old certainly, but

older and older in a way where you're getting knocked out a lot of light heavy weight and a lot of heavyweight, it sort of makes it exponentially worse, even though you may be 31 or 32 or something like that, still physically capable of doing things. But I don't want to be one of these guys like, wow, their chin is gone. I still think that they have a decent ability to absorb damage. Remember, a lot of success at high-level mixed martial arts is not just being a good technician, but I often point to someone like Jonathan Goulet, a very, very credible talent, a guy well-rounded, but simply didn't have an ability to absorb punishment. I think a lot of people don't realize these guys you get to the UFC level,

yes, they're very good technicians, they're very good athletes, but part of their success is predicated on their ability to absorb damage. And once that has been compromised a little bit, and again, I think you're seeing a lot of these Dutch guys, also these Dutch guys who went back and forth between kickboxing and MMA. It hurts you. It hurts you bad. So I still think that he's valuable to them on the roster. I think they may renegotiate his contract at some point to lower the cost,

or maybe not because obviously Belator would match it or take it from him or whatever the case may be. But you have to book him. I saw some people saying Brendan Schaub, I agree. I think it's a good fight for both guys at this point in time. And it makes a lot of sense. Yeah, I actually like that fight as well. Former teammate of Overeem's over at the Black Zillions, Tiago Silva, he'll be joining us in a few. What do you make of the UFC resigning him after charges were dropped again, not acquitted, hasn't fought anywhere else? he's had some issues in the past with PDs and whatnot, and of course, you know, all this stuff, which is, you know, the details I came out that he was accused of, you know, pretty strong stuff. What do you make of this decision?

It's funny, you're asking that on the day where the second Ray Rice video was released and there was outrage. Now, obviously, the Ray Rice situation is different in a number of ways. The NFL courting him and doing this press conference, the light punishment, the actual video evidence of what appears to be quite obvious criminal misconduct. him being a superstar athlete. Tiago Silva, obviously a big deal in our world, but maybe doesn't have quite the crossover appeal that someone like Ray Rice does. But nevertheless, you just sort of see, I don't know, I can understand the argument that, well, listen, he was,

all the charges were dropped. If you ever watched the first 48, which is a show I'm obsessed with, they often say after they arrest somebody who seems to be quite clearly guilty, they say charges are often dropped or reduced after the fact for all kinds of reasons. He was not put before a jury of his peers. This was let go because the investigation petered out. And it petered out because the main witness to it decided not to cooperate. And what reasons for that?

I don't know. So it's true that he doesn't have any criminal record as related to that major incident. But I would just say in a day and age where sensitivity to these kinds of issues are growing in a good and healthy way, right, respect for women, respect for domestic violence. And again, we don't know what he did or didn't do. but I would just say that the mere appearance of impropriety, the mere idea that you're courting a guy who had these issues surrounding him may not be the best idea going forward. Certainly they got their own ideas about things.

I understand Dana-Wy believes in the power of forgiveness. It's his organization to do with it, but it seems awfully risky and inviting the kind of scrutiny that you could do without. Let's move over to Bellator. Also held an event Friday in Connecticut, just nine miles away from the UFC event. and the big story that everyone was talking about wasn't pit bull winning the belt,

defeating Pat Kern in a great fight. It was the scene in the cage between Stefan Bonner and Tito Ortiz and of course Justin McCulley's showing up with two masks on. Scott Koker was in the middle of it. Rich Chow was in the middle of it. You know, they were all there. And I got to say, before I get your take, and my question will obviously be, what did you think of all of this, but I got to get prof.

regardless of what you thought of the whole thing, Jimmy Smith holding onto that microphone in his line afterwards where he said, I still got the mic as everyone's kind of digesting this. He was the star, the hero of that whole bizarre scene.

But let me ask you, what do you think of that? The way they set it up, you know, with the mask and all that and what he said to Tito, Tito's response, I know you're a big pro wrestling fan, so I can't wait to hear what you had to say.

Well, first of all, I love Jimmy Smith. I think he's the most underrated commentator, color commentator in MMA. And he already gets a lot of props, which tells him something. Yeah, I would rather Bob for Apples in the Lake of Fire than watch that again. That was, what do you even call that, you know? Here's what I would say, man. Listen, personally speaking, it's pretty clear where I stand.

You know, I'm not the consumer of that product, that kind of product anyway. The question is not whether Ariel Hawani or Luke Thomas or everyone in the MMA media really understands it or gets it. is whether it works, and by that I mean, are they capable of, A, delivering continued ratings, B, allowing the shine that a Bonner Ortiz have to then transfer onto your Will Brooks's and your Michael Chandler's, and then also about whether or not this preserves the integrity of the product. Those are sort of the three things you have to wonder about. In terms of evaluating that, it's far too early to tell whether it will work. The best analysis I've seen thus far, and because he wrote a post about it

that incorporates all the disparate views. Kevin Ioli was not a big fan of it. I think our own Dave Meltzer was sort of underwhelmed by it too. Others, the M.M.A. Media, thought it was good. Nate Wilcox, the Robilly Elba had a pretty great post about it. And his basic argument is that, look, what are they supposed to do with this fight?

It has benefit for them for Spike in terms of drawing ratings. You can't sell Ortiz v. Bonner as like, you know, Fador versus Krokop in their primes. It just doesn't work. That's not the kind of fight. have here. You have to find some alternative mechanism. And moreover, because they went head to head

with UFC on that night in the way that they did, they had a clearly differentiated product, and they were able to place themselves. We were like, why are they going head to head with UFC? This is the one thing I'd say that they actually did right. When you have a different time slot with a different product on a bigger channel, one, you don't make it about UFC versus Bellatory. You make it about Spike versus Fox Sports One, which is a much more winnable battle. But secondly, when you do that, you already have all the MMA fans already there. They're on Twitter. They're watching TV. All you do is give them to flip a little bit. So the question is sort of a long-ranging one. Will this work for Bellator? Jury is still very much out. I don't have the answer for you.

Personally speaking, boy, not the show for me. What do you make of their decision to go head to head with the UFC's debut in Mexico now? all indications are that they won't actually go head to head with Kane against Kane versus Verdoom the fight won't last that long but they're on the same night they'll probably go head to head with the prelims but a lot of the attention a lot of the media I mean that's a big heavyweight title fight that's Kane Velasquez in Mexico Verdum a credible challenger what do you make of that call yeah that was interesting to me too because again I think it's I don't think it you should first of all I don't think you should go head to head with UFC all the time but again

Here's what I think they're thinking. So this Friday, I believe there's another Bellator show. Joey Belatran is going to fight Emmanuel Newton. That's incredible. I mean, it's kind of a crazy fight, but it's not a sideshow in the way that Bonner versus Ortiz is anyway, right? I mean, people are wondering why Emmanuel Newton's having to defend this title against in this particular way, but it's still a title defense. There's still something to that, at least a little bit. But again, I think what Coker's think it is, all right, to your point, big heavyweight fight,

the return of Kane Velazquez, the entry into Mexico, there's going to be a ton of MMA fans online already. Plus, as we know, a lot of folks don't realize this. You know, when a UFC show comes on and maybe has less ratings than a Belator show, we still do better traffic because the Fox Sports One shows, those are all MMA fans. Spike gets a lot of people who may just be Spike fans or people flip it through the channel, some MMA fans, obviously. I think what they're thinking is we're going to get what we get already, but just by

being Spike. Let's see what we can get from the MTAor from the MMA side of things because UFC is bringing everyone to television on that night. Now that's a tough task to do it. They're going to have to be careful about it, but I don't think it's the craziest idea. Let's bounce over to Saturday night

and Invicta returned finally. They made their debut on FightPass. And, you know, with Invicta, it's always very, you know, everyone's always positive. And it's almost like, oh, how dare you ever criticize Invicta? You know, they're doing their thing and they're growing, and they obviously have some great fighters and marketable stars. Unfortunately, once again, stream issues kind of, you know,

is the big story afterwards with, I guess the explanation was that they went past their DVR a lot of time and good on the UFC for giving out a discount to anyone who, you know, signed up for this, they'll give a 10% off the next pay-per-view that you purchase online. But what would you think of the actual product itself? I mean, for Invicta, again, back in Kansas City, I personally think they need to move around a little bit and try to, you know, do the Holly Home way where you know you go do all right this the star is from albuquerque try to sell some tickets there but what do you think of the actual products i know you covered it and watched it from start to finish uh invicta's return and debut on fight pass on saturday to your point about the lack of criticism

around invicta i think there's a pretty clear reason for that i do not in any way not to say that they aren't but i don't view them as a for-profit entity out to make money and put on the best mma shows that they can i do i do look to them to put on the best ms shows that they can i look at them very much, and it's just my own perception, I look at them very much as a nonprofit trying to fix the problems in women's mixed martial arts, an organization whose sole purpose may not necessarily be revenue generation, but making sure women's MMA is treated fairly, and therefore building up divisions, finding contenders, and giving women's the kind of opportunities that they lack. It's almost like an agency devoted to making sure women's MMA has a place on a regional

scene that they otherwise wouldn't get. That, to me, frankly, is not a profit-draft. mission. It's an important one. It's the right one. But we applaud them because they're almost doing the Lord's work in a way. As for the product itself on this Saturday, except for the main event, which, again, Michelle Waterson looked good. Stream issues aside, she was, I mean, absolutely battering Tomata from Pillar to Post. I thought the rest of the car was pretty good. A couple of things that I noticed, by the way. Two women they found from Mexico who looked sensational. They found in a pro debut, JJ Aldrich, who looked, I thought, amazing for her pro debut. They debut the lightweight class. Now, it didn't go so well for Veronica Rothenhausler. But in other words,

they gave you two title fights. And by the way, the co-made event, a catcher con con con pa, looked, I mean, dude, if you didn't see that fight in the fourth round, she basically lost 10-8 to Stephanie Eggig and then came back, found a way to pass guard and set up a nasty dars choke, which took her a second to finish, and she had to adjust position to get, which is very hard to do, by the way, and got her title, the vacant strawweight title. So for me, two title fights, a lot of fantastic up-encomers, debuting a new weight class, a lot to really enjoy stream issues notwithstanding. And women's MMA very much in the forefront,

tough 20 debuts this Wednesday on Fox Sports One. And a lot of people interested, obviously, for the simple reason that a champion will be crowned, as is the tagline of the whole entire season. Scale of 1 to 10, how interested are you? I know you're going away and all, but are you going to try to watch every single episode leading up to the finale here?

I'm going to watch every single one. I don't think I've said that in how I can't even possibly remember. Yeah, man, like for me, again, there's a reality show like this does a lot of things for the UFC in the case of the ultimate fighter of Latin America, which I've also been watching. But, you know, the level of fights there are what they are. It's not particularly compelling in that way. But I just sort of want to see how the show is presented to the Latino audiences out in Central and Latin America, South America, I should say. But for this one, dude, the level of fighting is high. It's high. So for me, you get to be back in. Now, it's when I say

me, I don't mean an NBA journalist exactly. I mean a guy who's a, well, quote-unquote hardcore M.A. fan who's seen it all and, and it takes something else for me to get up and watch something like that. I don't really particularly care per se for drama, even if I can communicate to you that it has down the line promotional value. Yeah, I want to see good fights. And you've got excellent, excellent talent here. A lot of the women who are on, by the way, this in Victor Cage on the Victi Cage on Saturday, they lost fights to a lot of the women who are on this season of the reality show, not least the which was Joanne Calderwood. Catch a con con con con pa couldn't do a thing to her, and Joanne Calderwood's going to be on this reality

show. So for me, it's like, you want, you want to want me to watch your show? Give me a reason to watch as a hardcore fan, and their answer is good. We'll give you high-level mixed martial arts for me, one of the best weight classes that women have to offer, and we're going to put a title on the line at the end of the show. Sold. Last thing before I go,

or I let you go, and I'm putting you on the spot here, I'm testing your knowledge of the product right now. As I mentioned, it's a very busy weekend coming up. UFC, Bellator, 1FC, World Series of Fighting, Cage Warriors, Bama, I mean, Alyssa goes on and on.

What's the one fight people have to watch this weekend? And don't say Mayweather. First of all, that Mayweather fight is terrible. Can we just say that right now? Like, I don't care about seeing that at all. Boy, that's a good question. And you are putting me on the spot. I would say, and I could be wrong about this,

is it Mark Hunt-Roy Nelson this weekend? No. No? Is that two weekends from now? Yep. Ha-ho. I will confess ignorance. I'm checked out mentally. What about Bigfoot Arlofsky? Oh, God. I don't care about it. I'll just speak personally. It's not, that's not up my alley.

I was there for the first one, and it was a drubbing. Maybe it'll be different the second time, but no, that doesn't particularly interest me. What about Liam? Liam McGreary. Learie. McGee, excuse me. He's an interesting guy. Liam McGee is one of these guys who ever paid attention to Beltaur, one of the greater fines they found under the previous regime. super heavy-handed, lightweight, very explosive. He's an interesting guy to watch, but I wouldn't say that that Belator show blows me over either. Paul Daly, in action. On the Bama show?

Yeah. Yeah. I'll wait for him to get back to Bellator. Marlon Marius against Cody Bollinger. Yeah, that's okay. Rice is going to run over. Basically, there's not much to be excited about. There's a whole lot of nothing is what you're saying.

I would say it's a whole lot of nothing. But again, for me, man, it's like, to your point, there's a lot to juggle. I'm kind of mentally checked out. I'm heading to Turkey anyway. I haven't even looked at it. So again, the biggest fire of the weekend is Mayweather, and it's, I mean, a rematch that's going to do nothing. I mean, I could be wrong.

Maybe my Donna surprises him, but if it's in like the first one, it's going to be pretty non-competitive. All right. Appreciate the time. Enjoy your time off. Thank you, as always. He is Luke Thomas.

Check him out on Twitter. SBN, Luke Thomas is his handle. Thanks a lot, Luke. We'll talk to you soon. Yeah, thanks for embarrassing me when the last question. I appreciate it. No problem. There he is.

Luke Thomas. You know, it is. interesting weekend. You know, it's, there's a lot, there's a lot going on, but there's nothing that really jumps out at you as the must-see show of the weekend, or at least the must-see fight at the weekend. Like I said, one-fc, it's not one of their big ones. And UFC, it's a fight-pass-only show. It's on Saturday night. RFA is back. They've got a title fight. But there's nothing that jumps out as like, we're going to have a hard time finding the people's main event of this weekend. this past weekend was fun. I enjoyed it. All right, in a minute, and we'll talk more about

all that stuff later on. I'm assuming some of you will have questions about it. In a minute, we're going to be joined by Tiago Silva. We just talked about him. As you may recall, February 6th incident over at the Pablo Popovich Mixed Martial Arts Academy in Oakland Park, Florida. That is where his, I believe now ex-wife train. And he was accused of going over there and threatening his wife, Anne Popovich, who allegedly were in a relationship. There was a four-hour standoff at his home. SWAT team had to arrive. He was eventually taken into custody after he was tasered.

Initially, he was charged with two counts of felony attempted murder, murder, but later on it was downgraded to two counts of aggravated assault with a firearm. All that dropped this past week when, his wife did not cooperate. The main witness was uncooperative and apparently according to some of the reports first reported by TMZ she may have even fled the country. They've had some issues in the past as well and when this first came out in early February, Tiago Sovo was immediately released by the UFC and Dana White actually said that he would never fight in the UFC again. But after this came out and all charges were dropped.

The UFC welcomed him back on Friday. We don't know when he will debut just yet, but he is back in the UFC. So now let us go back to the Skype machine and welcome back, Mr. Tiago Silva, who's joining us for you the magic of Skype. Tiago, how are you? Hey, hi. I'm good, anew. I'm doing well.

Thank you very much for joining us. So there's a lot to get to here. So let's get right into it. First things first, are you surprised that the UFC resigned you so quickly? You never fought outside the organization. You've been through a lot over the last few months. Were you surprised when you got the word that you were coming back to the UFC right away? No, to be honest, I'm just glad, you know, the truth just came up, came out, you know, and they trust me, you know.

They knew I didn't do nothing, so they gave my job back. So I'm very glad for this. So you mentioned that the truth came out, but did anything come out? because there was no trial, you know, there was no jury involved, there was nothing. I mean, the charges were just dropped. They never actually moved forward with all of this. So do we actually know the truth of what happened? Because the truth is they didn't find no proofs, you know.

I never point any gun to my ex-wife, you know, I never tried her, you know. Everything she said was a lie. So that's the true, you know. And they stay, they couldn't prove, you know, another thing. So that's the truth. Where is your ex-wife now? I don't know. Good question.

I don't know. Since I got out of the jail, you know, I didn't talk to her anymore. You know, we don't have contact. I really don't know where she. And you are officially divorced? Yes. Do you have any idea why she did not cooperate and why she just fled the country and didn't pursue this at all?

No, and to be honest, I don't want to know. You know, that's the past. the past is the past for me. I just want to move forward and think about my new life, you know, my train, you know, so my fights and that's it, you know, just move forward. I don't want to think about the past anymore. Well, if you don't mind, I just want to ask you a few things about it because this is your first time doing an interview and I think there are a lot of questions. Can you tell us your side of the story of what happened on February 6th because, you know, that was big. I want to talk about that, you know. I'm here to talk about my professional fights, you know.

my comeback to the UFC, but I really don't want to talk about my professional life, you know. I think that's not cool for me. You know, I don't want to, I don't want to work with this anymore, you know? Sure. I'm done with that. But this could be a good opportunity to sort of clean the slate, right? They do nothing, you know. She said I point a gun to her.

I tried her. I didn't buy any guy. I didn't try her, you know. I want a divorce. She wanted money. I don't want to give the money. She sent me up. That's the truth, you know?

Really? Okay. So, so you've never had any. kind of a physical incident or anything with your wife? Just wanted the divorce. You know, I don't want to stay with the girl anymore. She won a lot. She asked me a lot of money to sign the divorce.

I said, no, she signed me up. That's it. And then it led to all of that. I mean, that was pretty intense stuff. You were tasered, right? Were you not tasers? Yes. Yeah.

20 SWAT guys in front of my house. But when you put it out there, like, she just wanted money, you want a divorce, usually, you know, that stuff happens a lot. Usually it doesn't end in tasering and in standoffs and things. like that. So how did it get to that point? How did it escalate to such a high level? I think they were, they are, they are afraid of me, you know, because I'm a fighter. I'm a professional fighter, you know. And she said I was like a crazy, you know, out of my mind, you know, some stuff like that, you know. And how long were you in jail for? For 30 days. What was that like?

It was like, you know, like a, like a, like a, how can I say like a, like a, like a gas station bathroom? Yes. Imagine you live 30 days inside the gastration bathroom. That's the jail. Not fun. Yeah. But, you know, it's really not fun, but I had a lot of support, you know, my manager, Glenn

Robson, he was there, you know, to visit me. You know, I have my friends, you know, going by. Yeah, I have a lot of, I have a lot of support, you know, to help me, you know. So, yeah, I did 30 days, you know, it wasn't funny, you know, but I did it. Why 30 days? Why did they keep you there that long and not allow you to leave earlier if, you know, as you say, you didn't do anything? I don't know.

That's the weird part, you know, because I think it was a good publicity, you know, to the city to keep me in jail. know, something like that. So I think was, I don't know, it's a good question, too, you know. The only thing I know I did 30 days, I want to get out. What were you thinking while you were there? I mean, you know, you're a high-level fighter.

You fought in the major leagues of MMA all over the place, all over the world, on TV, et cetera. What were you thinking? Did you think you were done? Did you think your career was over? Your life was over? I mean, how does someone process just being in a jail like that, as you describe it, like a gas station bathroom?

How did you deal with all of that? I had just to be patient, you know, because I knew the truth, but I couldn't do nothing, you know, about it. So I just be patient, you know. I sit tight and I waited. That's it. You mentioned your manager. Go ahead. There's nothing to do about it, you know, at this time.

You've got to be patient, you know. Otherwise you get crazy because you're locked up, you know. Yeah. Were you alone? Patient. Yes. They didn't put you with any other inmate. No.

They put in like a spank. special unit, you know. Why? They don't, I don't know. They said it was danger to stay with like a regular, like where people's, you know, like one more than one guy, you know, at the same cell, you know, something like that. But anyways, you know, some bullshit. You mentioned your manager, Glenn Robinson, came to visit you.

First, you know, what was that like for him to still support you throughout all this? And who else came to visit you? You know, I know that the first time you were in court, a lot of your teammates came and wanted to testify on your behalf and say what kind of a guy you were and all that. So who supported you through this? A lot of friends, you know, they come to visit me. They send letters, you know. And the guy who most went there was Glenn, you know, Glenn and my lawyers, you know, Frank. They were there all the time, you know, to help me out.

And, yeah, but I had a lot of support, you know. Did you think that this might spell the end of your MMA career? Not at all because I need the true. Like I said, I had to be patient, you know. There's nothing to do it, you know? You got to be patient. You know, you don't want to think stupid things, you know. If you know the true, you know, the truth is going to come up.

It's very simple, you know. You know, as I mentioned, Dana White said that you will never fight in the UFC again. Obviously, you're back now. but when you heard that, what was your reaction? I knew he, I think if I was on his position, I would do the same, you know what I mean? Because he didn't know what's going on, you know? So I didn't blame him, you know, like I said, I had to be patient. What else?

What else to do with? Nothing. You know, this decision to bring you back, the UFC has been criticized by some for it because, you know, people say the charges were dropped. You were never actually acquitted. So what do you say to those people who say that, look, the witness did not cooperate, and that's why you were, you know, let go. You're a free man now and all charges dropped, but you weren't actually found by jury to be

innocent of all the charges. What do you say to those people? I don't have nothing to say, you know, that's my personal life. I don't care of people think about it, you know what I mean? I'm just going to move forward. I'm going to come back to my train, you know, do what I have to do, train hard, and be people's inside the cage. That's what I do.

You know, I don't care what people think, to be honest. honest. But does it bother you a little bit? Since you say that you know the truth and you didn't do anything, would you have preferred it go to the jury and all that because then the truth would have come out, you would have been acquitted. This way, there still leaves some doubt. To be honest, I didn't prefer nothing. I just want to get my name clean, you know, clear and restart my life. That's it. I don't care if I need to go to the judge you or if they drop the cage, you know. It's done. It's done anyways. It's not going to change it for me, you know. like your name is clear now? Yes. Very 100%. You know, you were supposed to fight, not that long ago, but you pulled out due to a knee injury. What happened? Yeah, I was training with my teammates and I threw like a hard kick and my knee like I start to pop out, you know, and I start to feel from that day I started to feel my knee very stable, you know. I was just moving around and my knee was popping out. So I decided to go to the doctor. and he said I tore the ACL.

Oh. So I tried to keep training, you know, to do some therapy, but it was very bad. So I decided to have a surgery, you know. So I just had a surgery like four weeks ago. And I'm still doing the rehab, you know. And the doctor said probably I'm going to be able to fight by the beginning of the next year, you know, February, January. You know, we don't know yet exactly when, but I'm still in the rehab, you know. very intensive every day to get back fast. So you'll probably be out for the rest of 2013.

That's for certain, right? Yeah, I need to keep focus on the rehab, you know. I'm really still doing good right now because I had a surgery a month ago. And I'm doing a lot of exercise, you know. I'm supposed to do like a stand, eight, ten weeks, you know. So I'm doing very well. Did you see Matt Mitrione give you a shout out on Friday? Did you watch that?

Yeah, at first. I was watching him, you know. He did an excellent job, you know. He fought very well, you know, very solid, you know. He's a good guy. I love him. He's my teammate. He's my brother.

I'm wondering, do you have any kind of a relationship with Pablo Pavavich now? Do you talk to him? Do you know him? No, I don't have any relationship. I don't want to have it, you know. I'm cool. I just want to move forward. How are you in your relationship?

your personal life now. Do you feel like you're in a stable place? You're happy? I'm very happy. I have a girlfriend, you know. She's pregnant. I'm going to have a daughter and that's here. Congratulations. Thank you. So my life is very good right now and right now and I'm way better because I have my job back, you know. Right. I'm back on UFC. I'm going to be able to keep my work, you know. So yeah, I'm going to do my, but like I said, I'm going to do my best right now. I'm going to train hard, keep you folks in the rehab, and then next year, you know, you guys can see a new Tiago Super coming back, stronger, faster, you know, and I'm ready to fight anyone. Did you talk to anyone in the UFC?

Like, did they want to speak to you before they resigned you, like Dana White or Joe Silva, Lorenzo Fertita, then you can speak to? Yeah, I'm just waiting for Glenn, you know, to... Do you want to talk to them? Of course I want to talk to them, you know. So, but right now it's not up to me, you know. I got a, I need to wait, you know, Glenn, you know, just to do everything right, you know, do the right way, to set up the meaning, you know. But, yeah, I'm very excited to talk with him for sure.

You know how things are in the public. I mean, even when something happens to you, it's hard to shed those labels. So are you afraid that it's going to, you know, take some work to get people to forget about this and to move on and not bring this up or not associate you with domestic violence and things like that? Are you concerned about that? Not, not at all. You know, like I said, you know, I don't care what people think. I'm going to do my job. I'm going to keep folks on my train.

And that's it, you know. They will forget. They always do. Well, sometimes no. I mean, sometimes it's hard to shed those things, you know? Yeah, exactly. No, and another thing, I can't control exactly. I just can't control what I do.

I cannot control other people, you know? Right. So they can't see whatever they want. But like I said, I'll be ready next year, you know, healthy, you know, stronger and fighting hard, like always I do. Has all of this, and, you know, especially being in jail for 30 days, has it changed you as a person? Because let's be honest, the last few years for you, there's been some ups and downs, you know. It's a suspension from the UFC, this incident, whether it happened or not, whatever.

A lot has happened to you. It's been somewhat tumultuous for you. Have you changed as a person? Are you a different guy now? Yeah, for sure. you know, when you're locked down, you have a lot of more time to think about things, you know. But, you know, you always learn, you know,

when bad things happen, you know, you always have something to learn. So, yeah, for sure. So what did you learn? I learned to don't trust people, so trust girls. That's a lesson. I'm joking. No, you know, you know, I just,

with everything bad happened to me, you know, I saw who really are my friends, you know, the good friends who stay with me, you know, the people who got away, you know. So, yeah, you know, it's a lot of stops, you know. Do you feel like you have matured as a person? Do you feel like, okay, you look back at some things you can pinpoint that you put yourself in bad situations, you made mistakes? Yeah, yeah. I learned to think better before you do things, you know. Right.

Think more about it, you know. what would you do differently from the past be more patient you know and I don't know I don't know a bad situation I don't know what's safe is there and my last thing to you is is there anything that you have to do as a result like are they making you go to you know some kind of anger management

or something is there anything you have to do or is this drop it I have my my full life back I don't need to go anywhere I don't need to say nothing to nobody you know I just need to live my life. I need to train hard and get my new better. Thank you, Tiago. Appreciate it very much.

And congratulations on resigning with the UFC. Thank you. All right. All right. There he is. Tiago Silva, joining us from Florida, joining us from the Blacksillians camp, stating quite confidently that none of that happened

and that, you know, obviously he is a free man now. Again, was not acquitted. of the charges, but all charges were dropped. He says he doesn't know where his now ex-wife is, doesn't know why she dropped the charges, but that's where things stand for Tiago Silva. And he may not care about the public, but sometimes these things happen where, you know,

the public, they're going to hold on to things. They're not going to forget. He may not care about, you know, what people think of him, but it's hard to shed those labels. It's hard to forget what was written. It's hard to forget what was charged. It's hard to forget the police report. It's hard to forget the images being handcuffed.

It's hard to forget those things. And I think it's going to take a lot of work to get people to forget those things. You can be defiant. You can be somewhat dismissive of it all, but that's just the world we live in, especially when there's, there are accusations that, you know, are pretty serious. So it's going to be interesting to see how that is dealt with and how the public, once this

becomes a reality, once he actually returns to the UFC, how this is dealt with. For now, we move along, and we welcome in a man who was supposed to make his UFC debut this, no, not this past weekend, two weekends ago. In Sacramento, California, it was UFC 177. and a lot of people were excited about the 2008 Olympic gold medalist in freestyle wrestling, Henry Sohudo, part of that famed 2008 wrestling team making his UFC debut. He went undefeated on the regional scene, so to speak, and he was just moments away from weighing in when we got the news that he would not be weighing in, that due to medical reasons, he was out of UFC 177.

And, of course, wanted to talk to him about that and his future and many more things. So very happy that right now Henry Sohudo is joining us via the phone. Henry, are you there? Yes, I'm here. How are you doing, Ariel? I'm doing great. Thank you so much for joining us. So, obviously, a lot to talk about. First things first. You know, I believe this is the first time that you're doing an interview since then. So they said that there were medical reasons.

And, of course, your manager has talked about, you know, the nausea and the cramping and everything you've dealt with as far as trying to make that 125-pound weight limit. How are you feeling physically right now? How is your health? No, physically, physically I'm good. I'm good now. I feel good. I feel strong.

During the weight cut, everything was good. I had gone down on 1.30 that night before Wayne's. I mean, that was only, you know, four pounds away from, you know, for my goal. And just that night it was just, I just had severe cramping. I couldn't, I just, I couldn't sleep. And every, every 10 minutes ago, I had crampings going on on my back and on my thigh, on my foot, just pretty much every part of my body. It's not that I'm fat.

It's not that I'm, you know, I'm overweight. I'm just, you know, I'm very lean, and my body was just pretty much just kind of taking a toll. And this happened a couple times already, so I've always thought I could get down because I've had my whole life getting down to, you know, 125. But it's, you know, it's a little different. I'm much older. A lot of people don't realize that at the age of the time, 21 I was, you know, I've been making that same

way since high school. You know, they're winning pretty much the same. So it just, it took a toll on the area. Like, I'm very, I'm very disappointed in myself, you know, that it took a while for me to kind of start snapping back into the year. I'm still a little disappointed. I mean, I don't want to call it depression,

but, you know, very sad because I want to compete. I'm a competitor. I love to compete, you know. In the year, 2013, I mean, I fought six times, you know, in less than a year. And I fought four times in two and a half months. You know, I love to compete. I love to fight.

It's just, I think my body is just grown. And I think if I ever do decide to make 125 or if they ever allow me, it had to be more science involved into my weight cuts because it can't just be toughness and strong and will-minded because that's going to put me in a coffin. And people that know me realize. I come from a Mexican background. Obviously, I'm American.

But I'm willing to go to death. You know, I'm going to go through death, man, you know, for a lot of things. And, but maybe not quite. Maybe that's not true. Anyways, that night it just scared me a little bit. I was hard for me to get up, to be quite honest with you. Just a lot of cramping.

It wasn't no dehydration. I had to say it's just a lot of cramping it and I couldn't wait until 4 o'clock you know no sleep nausea a little bit of error anybody that's cut weight or anybody that knows me you don't get to understand that I will push myself

to the limit until I feel like something's ready to snap or if I go to sleep I may not wake up and that's just how I felt it was pretty much you know it's pretty much you know me or it was pretty much me or the sport of MMA.

My coach just made the executive decision to take me to go with an IV and we went and we talked to the USC and they had saw how I look like and my muscles were twitching and they just made a decision that just

you know pull out of the fight. At what point in the process because I had heard that earlier in the week, you arrived in Sacramento at around 137 pounds, you got down to 130, which is just four pounds, but obviously, you know, once you're down to the nitty-gritty, every pound, you know, could be a nightmare. But at what point did you start to feel that pain, that serious cramping and the nausea and everything? Yeah, I think as soon as I got back to the hotel, I think what happened, Ariel, was I can sit in my father of the best weight cutters, probably in the world.

I think if anybody can cut as much weight as I can't in the span of an hour and a half, you can't think I'm crazy. I mean, I've done 14 pounds an hour and a half. I can't do that no more. It's that cut that I did was 14 pounds. You know, it's about investing a lot of water. But I think the problem with that weight could was the fact that I drank distilled water, my last cut.

so because I think there's still water and I was pretty much I was just pulling liquid out of my body I had no minerals so my head started hurting I thought my head needed water and that you know that was that was number one my head was hurting and my lips started

so much turning purple and yeah I think next time I'll take a picture for anything ever happened but you know I did a lot of weight that did a little too too much I pushed myself hard

hard. You can ask Staticorpi, people that have been there and that have done that. You know, people that know me. And I just, I can't, I can't do that. I can't do those cuts. I've been spoiled with the sport of mixed martial arts. We get, you know, we get more than

24 hours before we compete. And on wrestling, we only got, you know, 12 hours, and then we were competing. The sport of mixed martial arts, you know, we get a lot of time. And I just realized a lot of mistakes that I've been making. My training's fine. my mind's fine.

Everything that I do, I do that 110%. I train seven to eight hours a day. You know, I've been changing this sport like I achieved the Olympics. And, you know, to me it's just disappointing, man. I'm really, I'm really down to myself. I've, you know, I've just been kind of in my room just pretty much just kind of just thank you, man. It sucks, so I don't want to come out for a bit. But, you know, I'm starting to snap out of it and realizing that, you know, my goal is to become a world champion.

and I know if I put that same amount of work that I didn't rest in that, that I want to have the same results. I just have to get science involved and maybe lean my muscle out a little bit more because I can't just pull water out no more like I used to. I'm not 21 no more. You know, I'm 27, about to be 28. Things change. My body changed.

I have a really heavy muscle. If you look back on my pictures from my photo shoot, you'll realize that. I have really heavy muscle. I mean, I'm cut. it's not it has nothing to do with that I'm fat or where I'm eating wrong because everything that I did I did right I think it's more of actually leaning and shaving out the muscle if I ever make 125 pounds I mean by the time I weigh in at 125 or 128 when I've been fighting catch weight I mean I was you know I was getting I was I was pretty much fighting a 155 pounds that's what I weighed you know I'm a big kid I won 25 I'm a really really big kid and I feel it

I recover very well. My body's in shape. Everything's right. It's just, uh, my training's right. It's just my weight. It's just my weight. It's not the same. No more.

I'm not 21. And that's what, and that's what bums me out. You know, obviously this isn't the first time that you've missed weight. Um, it's happened a couple times before.

And, you know, let's forget about everything that you did as an amateur wrestler. But do you have any idea the kind of trauma you have put your body through over the last couple years trying to make this way, then sometimes failing to do so. I mean, there could be some serious stuff going on. Do you have any idea? Not really.

And that's what I'm talking about science, Ariel. Yeah. I've, uh, it's, oh, you just gotta suck it up. It's your mind. Like, no, man, like, never has my mind ever given up on me. It's always in my body. Those couple times, it's always in my body.

I'm just like, hey, dad, look, I'm doing a salt bath. And, you know, the test is probably about 150 degrees. and I mean, I'm Fahrenheit, I'm sorry, and I'm sitting, and I'm laying in the shower, and it's just no weight coming off and nothing crapping into the intestines.

I understand that it's, like I said, I'm going to go back to science. I bet my body has been through a lot. It's been through a lot, and I think it's time to, you know, to get a little smarter about things and, you know, not be so, you know, I'm not cut so much, so much weight at, you know, at a short period of time.

Things are going to change, and, you know, I'm already talking to, you know, good nutritionists, which I've been doing. But even switching that, I'm just completely just changing my whole model. And when I was at the training center, we had, they had, did, like, a whole body analysis on me. And they had tested, like, the bone density. They did a whole skin fold. and they did a whole analysis on or my weight should come off from. So we did that before I decided to come back to the sport of wrestling.

And that helped me out. So I had thought about maybe doing the same thing and going back to Colorado Springs and getting that analysis done to actually be very specific on how I can shape this muscle down. Again, I'm not here to make excuses and anything like that. You can look at the pictures before my fight and you will notice, man, that I have very, I got heavy muscle. I'm very short, but I have very solid big legs and big shoulders, huge back, and I have to be able to, again, for 125 pounds, and I have to be able to shave into that muscle

in order for me to make. Because believe me, I can go through so much in Beijing. I was on the verge of passing out, but the next day I recovered very well. and that's something that, you know, my use and just the will to win has allowed me to, you know, to be successful. So it's just about making, it's just about being smart, making a weight, and the recovery is no big deal for me. I want to be strong. You know, as you know, making weight in a fight is half the battle. If you can't make the weight, sometimes the fight doesn't happen, you lose a percentage of your purse, etc.

So every fighter is held under the same kind of scrutiny, and they're criticized the same. way to a degree when you don't make weight. But it's it's somewhat shocking to see an Olympic gold medalist, A, because there aren't a lot of them, you would have just been the third in UFC history to compete inside the octagon. And you know, you make it that far. You win the gold medal in the Olympics in wrestling. You think that you have this down to a science. Do you feel that pressure? You know, no one maybe looks at what's going on in your day-to-day life, you're growing, things of that nature, and you're kind of competing at around the same weight, just, you know, three and a half pounds more. Do you feel the pressure? Wow, an Olympic gold medalist, you must

must make weight. And if you don't, there's more scrutiny to come. I mean, yeah, that comes with the territory, you know, pressure. But, man, I've been having pressure my whole life, Ariel. Like, this isn't, you know, this isn't my first rodeo. I mean, I've had a chance to compete. You know, in the middle of Times Square, and I ran in Russia, you know, stadiums full of people, cameras, lights, whatever you want to call it. I'm used to that. I'm accustomed to that.

I embrace pressure. Pressure actually helps me. I don't care. You can have cameras on my face, whatever. I know what I have to do. And that's it. And that's what I'm saying. That's what I'm kind of kicking myself in the butt here.

You know, I'm an Olympic caliber athlete. And I'm not making weight. It just looks bad. Sounds bad. And, you know, there's nobody to blame but myself. I'm ready to find my technique is sharp. I took my time with the sport. I did amateur boxing for three years.

I won the copper, the guy who wanted the golden gloves in Arizona. I really took my time, and I understand the science of the game, understand that it's a sport that mixed martial arts is not wrestling no more. And for me to allow myself to not make way, man, it's just, I would just have to, you know,

blame myself and go back to the drawing. board and and and and and see what we can do but as of now it's I'm taking Dana White to offer and I want to find I 135 and you know wherever they have available for me I won 35 all fight um are you done fighting at flyway um I wouldn't see I am I think I have to build the USC's trust um and I would I would love for them to give me a second chance but I would obviously I would like to prove myself to a fight yeah before I ever decided to go back because I'm sick of the area. I'd love to compete.

I was continuing, you know, wrestling. And I was getting about, you know, 50 to 60 matches per year international. So my body was accustomed to that. And I thought I don't want to get bored with them in Maine. Just fight, you know, once or twice a year. I want to fight it any time that I possibly can if I'm healthy. And because every match I get better, every single match I get better. How much you weigh right now?

Like, what's your normal walking around? around way. Well, right now, I took this whole week off. I know typically I'm actually about one, I'm actually about 145. Okay. But I'm solid. I work hard. I do, I run hard. I mean, I do a, you know, I did three and a half miles and 20 minutes. You know, I try to simulate a flight. I mean, I'm in shape. I mean, I got abs. I'm probably one of the, the few Mexicans in the whole that has, you know. You know, it's just a lot of, and the main has built a lot of more, a lot of muscle on me.

A lot of, you know, throwing knees. I love throwing knees, you know, the whole, you know, the whole boxing more tie is really building my shoulders and back. So I know it has to deal with muscle. A lot of people would say, well, it's nutrition. It's like, no, I did everything right. I ate nothing but dreams. It's, it's now, I think, at this age, is now shaving into my muscle.

So, so right now you're going to take the U.S. C's offer, you're going to go up to 135. Do you feel like you are at a disadvantage at 135? Is that why you drop down to 125? Or is there any other reason why you put your body through this? No, no, no, no, not at all. If it's 25, 35, 35, 45, 55, 55. A lot of that does have to deal with, you know, a lot of that is, you know, with the will.

If you've got the will to win, if you've got the skill, there's no reason why I should have won. Okay. I just felt like at 25, my plan was, you know, I, like, spar with some, with some kids. Why I wait is out of my gym, and, you know, it's not fair. Let me put it to you that way, at 125 pounds. I'm a lot stronger than these guys. I feel like I do feel like I have an advantage, a big advantage. I feel anybody that's ever rolled with me, understand.

I feel like I'm very strong for my weight class. I just thought it, you know, I go down 25, you know, become a world champion and then eventually move up and challenge the guy at 35. I was told by one person that after you were pulled from the fight, like early morning on Friday, two Fridays ago, that you got on a plane and you left, you went home. You didn't even stick around or anything. Is that true? No, no, not at all. We talked to the USC. We talked to them. I think I saw my conditions. They agree with you that it was time to pull out. Yeah. Absolutely did. I not want to show faith. Not really. What I wanted to do is getting IV. and stuck around in Sacramento,

got an IV, and that same night, that same day, I just didn't want to be around media. Did you consider retiring? I might have said something stupid. Oh, very delirious. I think if you cut away before, I challenge you to cut 10 pounds.

Okay. And just 10, that's it. And then try to do a phone interview with somebody. Yeah, I bet. We'll see some crazy stuff come out of your mouth. You still want to fight, right? You still want to fight? Absolutely.

Absolutely, man. I love to compete. I love to fight. And this right here I have taken, it's very personal to me now. It's very personal to what's happened. Yeah, obviously, I want to apologize to everybody. I want to first apologize to USC. My opponent is Scott Jorgensen.

My family, friends, and anybody. in the mixed martial arts world. I will be back. I'm going to be a slave to the sport of mixed martial arts and I will show myself and the people that I am a champion. And hopefully someday I can

convince the UFC if they allow me to come down to flyway and give you a chance. They can throw anybody at me. I'm more than ready. Do you think that there's a lesson here because, as you know, Hannah Brown missed weight that same day,

and, you know, quite frankly, took some of the spotlight, the negative spotlight away from you because it was a title fight and whatnot. And, you know, this past weekend, we saw Charles Levera misweight. I mean, if done incorrectly, you know, guys can get seriously hurt, you know, and worse. You've been through it. You've cut weight more than most MMA fighters because of what you've had to do in the Olympics. And before that, what's the lesson here? What should youngsters not do when trying to?

to cut weight. And, you know, we got Anthony Johnson coming up next. This is a guy who's fighting a 205 now, fought at heavyweight. He was pushing himself to 170 and, you know, missed weight as well, like you. So what's the lesson here? Yeah, I think it's funny, but I can tell you, maybe he can't. Yeah.

I would, I wouldn't so much, I think now the way I look at it, I feel like I've always been right here. You know, and maybe that is a problem with me. I'm doing too much weight in a short time, but I often see fighters that are cutting too much weight and they're pretty much expanding the weight cut.

So by the time they're way in holding the wake up for about a week or two weeks, you know, they're dead for the fight. So, I mean, my whole thing would probably come down to science. I would have to say, find yourself, you know, a good nutritionist, you know, just be smart about it. I know people have this a lot of use, but, man, from every bad experience, you know, you gain wisdom. I want to allow this to make me a wiser person. And I'm not making the mistakes again.

I can believe it. It is a crappy film. It is a crappy film. I knowing how much attention I've gotten. You know, USA Today did articles. You know, I've got so much media attention. And, you know, it just sucks. There's no other way to put it, man.

I'm bummed out. But it's personal now because of that. I'm becoming literally, you know, a slave to my... my sport and I will be back. Yeah, you mentioned being somewhat depressed and just being, you know, in your room alone. You know, what's your mental state right now? I mean, do you feel like you're snapping out of it or do you still need some more time? What's this been like for you?

Yeah, you know, it's good for you to go through some of these emotions because it allows you that you don't want to go to this no more. You don't want to feel like this, man. You really don't. It's horrible. You know, it's just, I'm snapping out of it now, but I'm good to go. I told myself, well, I'm taking a whole week off,

letting my body recover because I train hard, and I want to make sure my body recovered in every way, shape, and form. And, you know, today is going to be my first day working out. And it's just a feel to the fire. That's the only way I can, you know, it's the only way I see it, and that's the only way you should see it, because if not, it's going to eat you alive, especially in my situation.

you want to fight next. Man, I want to fight as soon as possible. Whatever the U.S.U, you know, they're the dictators here. And again, I want to apologize to them. I want to apologize to all you guys. That's not likely, even though it's happened a couple times. It's, I know it's hard, man. I'm like a, I know it's slack.

By the way, what do you make of, you know, when this news came out, I don't know if you know or maybe you heard afterwards, the legacy Twitter tweeting out a smiley face and Mick Maynard saying he's questioned whether or not you want to do this if you have the hard and whatnot

what do you make of that after you left those guys? No, it was looking personal I don't get on social media to be honest with you I really don't but again

everybody's in everything has motivated me everything has has pretty much has kicked me in the ass and that's how I really are like I'm willing to get back on my feet and train hard, even harder than I've ever had.

That's all. It has nothing to do with that. I think that's something that makes me as soon as anybody from Legacy. But, you know, I have to do with the science of the body. And I have to become smarter. That's how there is to it. All right. Well, I wish you the best.

Happy to hear that you're okay as far as your health is concerned. And, you know, I wish you success at 135. and hopefully you can put this all behind you and go on a bit of a run. I know a lot of people were very excited about you making your UFC debut, and we didn't get to see that. So hopefully once you are healthy and ready to go mentally and physically, and you can cut that way correctly, hopefully we can see you in there sooner rather than later.

Really appreciate the time, Henry. All the best. No, food. Thank you, I appreciate it. I appreciate you in the USC again. I want to apologize. But I'll be back. I'll be back and I'll be ready.

I promise you that. That's right now at Bantamette. That's a whole thing. I can promise you. I promise you. I will come back strong. Thank you, Henry. Appreciate it. All right. Thank you, guys. There he is. Henry Sehudo stopping by. And I think being quite honest about his issues, and I think the right call, obviously, at this time, is to go down to, or move up to 135. He is a guy who won the Olympic gold medal at 121.5. So he's only fighting, you know,

three and a half, if need be, four and a half pounds. Is that right? Yeah, more than that, from when he was competing several years ago, 2008 Olympics. And you get older and things change, your body changes. And he is short. There's no doubt about that. As he mentioned, he is 5'4. He says he's around 145 now. So we'll see how he does at 135 in the UFC because that was the offer that the UFC gave him.

They said, either you're going to fight at 135 or you're getting cut. and I think the smart move is to take the offer. So we're supposed to be joined by Anthony Johnson in a minute here, but apparently there's been some kind of miscommunication. So we're trying to get him. And of course, Anthony Johnson coming off two straight wins now in the UFC. Talk about a guy who knows a thing or two about weight cutting issues. That would be Anthony Johnson.

Remember, this is a guy who fought Charlie Brennam, who's now fighting at 150. He fought him at 170 pounds back at, I believe it was UFC on versus 6 in October of 2011. And, you know, not that long ago, Anthony Johnson fought at heavyweight in World Series of Fighting, defeating Andrei Alovsky. And now he's fighting at 205. Big win over Phil Davis at UFC 172. Knocked out Hosgerio Nogera in a matter of seconds. that was at UFC on Fox in late July back in San Jose, California. And now he's been involved in a bit of a back and forth with Alexander Gustafin,

who originally said that he did not want to fight anyone until he got his shot at the title. Remember, Alexander Guston was supposed to fight John Jones. First, they were supposed to fight August 30th, and then, September 27th, then he got injured, and then DC moved in, then John Jones got injured. Now that fight is happening January 3rd, and it screwed up Alexander Gusterson's plans. He had the title shot. It was the much-anticipated rematch, and they were on the cover of EA sports and all that good stuff. Once John Jones got injured, it delayed things. So here's Alexander Gustafsson saying, well, what now? Well, I'm going to wait.

Well, the UFC has a lot of shows, and there are a lot of big fights, and typically that that doesn't go over very well. And typically someone's going to call you out, and it's hard to not take the bait. And this is exactly what happened, because by addressing it, Gusufsen, for better or worse, you know, poured more gasoline on the fire.

Tyron Woodley has put out the blueprint how to deal with these situations. Ignore it. Don't talk about it. Hector Lombard wants to fight me. I don't want to fight him for whatever reason. I'm just not going to say anything about it. Maybe a tweet here or there.

but Gusterson was talking on things on Facebook and there were messages and things like that and that just got things going and that just got people wanting to see the fight more and more and by trying to dismiss it publicly

it only in my opinion made things worse for him and now everyone wants to see the fight I think what makes the most sense is to have the fight on January 3rd is the co-main event of Jones versus DC then you can have some kind of tournament

one-night tournament right the best four light heavyweights in the UFC there's no doubt about that Jones versus DC title fight main event Johnson versus Gustafsson co-main event brilliant so it's interesting because Anthony Johnson we were trying to get him to take some kind of bait after the Phil Davis win after the nogera win saying no I'm not calling anyone out I'm not going that route anymore I'm not doing it I'm just going to let the UFC decide. I'm going to let them play matchmaker. That's not my job. My job is to come here and win. And then all of a sudden, John Jones, D.C. happens. Delayed. Gusterson's there. Everyone's

talking about it. And all that went by the wayside. So we'll see if the fight actually makes sense. But it seems like it's going too much like we thought the Bisping versus Rockhold fight made a lot of sense. And it was shocking to me that they would go with the Bisping excuse me with Rockhold versus Machita shocking what

this fight two years in the making I mean I talked about it at length last week and finally cooler heads prevailed late last week when they booked the fight

is happening November 8th in Australia which is a bit of a weird location for the fight to happen although Bisping does have some ties to Australia and he's fought there

before UFC 127 of course the infamous Jorge Rivera fight where he spat on the ground afterwards and the illegal knee but

Rivera recovered. Eventually, the fight was won by Michael Bisping, and he was a draw there, no doubt about it. It's a fight pass card, so it's not on Fox Sports 1, which is somewhat interesting. And it's also on the same day as another show, November 8th in Brazil announced last week, Shogun Huah versus Jimmy Manoa. The bigger fight, in my opinion, of the two, and the fight that will garner more interest is the fight pass one. Luke Rockhold versus Bisping. That is an intense rivalry that's only going to be worse by the time November 8th rolls around. But they made the right call. There's no doubt about that.

Now, afterwards, you know, I mentioned, you know, I'd really love to see the Jacaree Rockhold rematch and potentially as a number one contender fight, but the fight has already been made. There are so many shows, and who knows, if Rockhold wins and if his prediction comes true where he does win in the first round, then maybe. he will get Jacari after all. Because the tough part about Jacqueray right now is timing is key. As we talked about last week,

and what seems to be the case with so many guys these days, with so many shows, you think about a guy like Cub Swanson, you may have done enough to warrant a title shot, but because you're not fighting around the same time as the championship fight, you're going to be forced to fight someone else. To remain active because they need you, because you are a draw because you're a top contender, it's hard to sit on the sidelines and wait.

And so Chris Wyden and Vitor Belford are fighting on December 6th. That's going to be three months after Jacques Re last fought. It's going to be tough to keep them on the sidelines. Who do they put them up against is as big of a question. But right now I think it's going to be tough to keep them on the sidelines. We'll see what happens, though. Crazier things have happened in MMA. So we'll see what happens there.

And I do commend the UFC for making that fight because that was the fight to make. It was a no-brainer. There's never been a bigger no-brainer than that fight, especially when given the options. And I was told that it was the craziest thing. I said the culmination of that feud after years of trash talk and how both of them can sell fights would have been greater than the culmination for Luke Rockhold of a win over Liora Machita.

Machita higher ranked, I know. Better resume, former champion, but that just would have been, especially on Fight Pass, would have been just another Fight Pass show that would get some attention and just kind of come and go, and that's pretty much it.

You know, you know what I mean? You know those shows. This one will be a bigger deal. No doubt about it, they made the right call. All right, let's go to the phone lines now and welcome in the aforementioned Anthony Rumble Johnson. Anthony, are you there?

What up, dude? Good to hear from you. Thank you for joining us. So I've been talking a lot about you and Gussifson as we were waiting for you to join us and I said you played it perfectly. You know, by dismissing you publicly, he kind of took the bait

and made things worse for himself where people wanted to see the fight because you guys were going back and forth. Was this part of your plan to get him to try to respond, to get him to go back and forth so that he is forced to take this fight? No, it was never a plan.

You know, I just, you know, wanted a yes or no to the fight, you know? But with him not respond, finding, it just pretty much pissed me off. But it was surprising to me because we've asked you after your last two great wins in the UFC, who do you want to fight, who do you want to fight, try to make this fight, that fight, and you were not taking any bait. I mean, you wanted nothing to do with Matchmaker. And then all of a sudden, you're asking for Gustafson. So what changed?

No, I just, you know, I just got to the point, you know, I was just sitting back thinking, and I was like, you know what, I really want to test my skills and see what level I'm at. you know, Gus gave John a run for his money, you know, the toughest fight John has ever had. And, you know, everybody's either has a fight lined up or they're injured. And the only people in the top five that don't have a fight is me and Gus. So I'm like, why not? Why not just do it for the fans and just see what we can do? You know what I'm saying?

So Gus says he's, you know, one of the best in the world. And I feel like I'm one of the best in the world. so why not just do it and just see what happens. That was it. It's not even about fighting a, if it was the number of contender, some people have said that to me it's just really about seeing what level I'm really at. So is the fight happening? Is it official?

Are you fighting Dustin? I haven't signed anything, so I don't know. You know what I mean? I have no idea. I hope that happens, you know. It's just, I just want to challenge myself against this guy. So hopefully he says, like, just an official, yes, and let's do this, instead of like, you know, oh, I'm saying the UFC's hand now, you don't make it happen.

No, let's say, okay, agree to it and do it. But you would agree that all signs point to it kind of, I mean, at this point, I mean, he did make that message. I'm sure you saw the comments about, okay, I'll do it, it's in the UFC's hands. Dana White has said he likes to fight. I mean, it would be somewhat surprising at this point if he gets booked against someone else, right? Yeah, yeah, but knowing this game, it wouldn't surprise me at the same time

if he did get booked to fight somebody else. How do you feel like you match up against him? Do you feel like he's better than you in any part of the game, or do you think you're better than him at all aspects? He's tough. You know, he's, you know, tall, of course, and he moves a lot. I mean, he's a good fighter.

But I see him better than me. No, I don't see anybody better than me. but he's not easy by any means necessary. So like I said, I just want to go in there and see what level I'm really. I see if I'm really capable of doing the things that I think I can do. Would you agree that a win over Gussifson would make you the number one contender that you should get a title shot after that if you beat him? Like I said, for me to fight him isn't about number one contenders.

It's just about seeing what level I'm at if I'm really one of the top guys. You know what I mean? That's a true, you know, that's a true, I guess, testament to myself to see if I'm really as good as people I am and really as good as I think I am.

Did he personally offend you at all? I mean, do you feel like this is personal now because at first he was, you know, insinuating that maybe this is not your time, that you're not on his level, that's the playground stuff and all that. I mean, that you have... To me, that's what made it personal.

That's what made it personal, you know, with him saying that you know, he doesn't have to be impressed with me, but saying that, you know, I need a few more fights to get to him or something like that. I'm like, in my opinion, I'm like, dude, nobody knew who you were until you fought John. You know, you were just an average Joe

just like me until you fought John. You gave John a great fight. Now the whole world knows who you are. You're like an overnight celebrity. That's what happens when you, you know, go out and fight the asshole. But don't try and belittle me and make it seem like, you know, you didn't win.

Don't make it seem like you're the champion. You can say that those type of thing. So that kind of got to me You know what I mean? Like he's just You know The head hunter when he is And he lost to the head hunter

Do you think he lost that fight? There are some who think he actually won the fight It was close It was close Me personally I thought he won I definitely thought he won But it wasn't like A long shot

It was close But I thought he won You thought he won really Because I thought he lost You thought he won though I thought he won Really Yeah but it was

You know it was You know what I mean? It was that close of a fight, but, you know, John did what he had to do when he won. He convinced the judge that he's the real challenge. Do you agree that it makes most sense in a perfect

world to have that as the co-main event of the Jones DC fight? I mean, you could do like a little mini four-man tournament thing, right? I mean, that's perfect, right? No, it doesn't make perfect sense. I want to fight before the year is over with. Oh, okay. I want to eat with my family on Christmas,

you know what I'm saying? No, it doesn't make perfect sense. I want to be able to fight. You know, I know, in December. So what? They don't have a main event for Phoenix, right? Right, that's true.

Why not do it, do it then? He's talking about, you know, January and stuff like that. I know, dude, let's play and get it over. You got plenty in time. Let's do it. And I haven't been disrespectful to Gus. You know, we're both professionals and what fighters and stuff like that.

I haven't crossed a line with them and saying that rude about him. I was about to, but I didn't. Oh, what were you going to say? attention, I ain't going to tell you. Okay. All right, you know, but it is what it is. You know, hopefully before the year is over with, you know,

and if we don't, it is what it is. And hopefully we do fight, period. But if you don't, and life goes on, I'm not going to cry about it, you know, and all that. But let's just be clear, if they offer you January 3rd or sometime in January if he gets his wish, you'll still take the fight, right? Yeah, I still take it, but I want to fight again before the years over it. I don't care who it is. Oh, really?

Yeah So They can put me in a pre-lamp for all right I can I just want to fight again Why do you want to fight so badly Any particular reason? I just want to stay active

I want to stay busy You know Each fight You can't do anything But get better and better You know So that's what I want to do I am happy

And not to say I mean you've done everything Correct since coming back To the UFC You've been a model citizen A model fighter You've been great with everyone It's nice to see that

The old Anthony back a little bit I mean It was getting to be A little bit vanilla, if you know what I mean? The old anthony, you mean the old anthony. Well, you know, you got a little edge now. You got a little pep in your step.

You're calling them out. You're going after a guy. Before, you were too nice, you know? I mean, I'm still the same guy. You know, now I just want to test myself even more. Yeah. You know, and, you know, I'm better than anybody that's, you know, lower than me. But, you know, I just want to rank guys that are supposedly better than me.

So these guys feel better than me, according to the ranking. why not try and see what I can do against me. Just like somebody in number 10, whoever's at number 10 probably want to fight somebody else in the top 10 or top 5 or something, you know what I'm saying? It's all about one of the better stuff and test their skills.

Do you feel like you were at championship level already? If something happens to D.C. or Jones, you can step in there. You're at that level right now? I definitely take my chances. Yeah. I'd have that much confidence in myself, you know? your story is amazing again because you used to fight a 170 now knocking guys out at 205 it's very rare

you don't see this happen sometimes you see guys go up one-way class but not a jump like that and you know as you know lately there have been a lot of mishaps as far as wayans are concerned is there anything any kind of advice you could tell these guys i mean there's some bad stuff going on and it could be very serious and very harmful to their health and you're that perfect example of just listen to your body and don't try to kill yourself to make weight what can you you tell these guys? Yeah, exactly what you say. Listen to your body.

Take advice, of course, you know, from people like me and guys who cut weight. It's not worth it. You know what I mean? You want to live to fight another day. You don't want to damn their kids. You don't have one fighting. You know what I'm saying?

You want to go in that fight healthy and strong and able to do what you want to be able to do, you know? Never, you know, just don't push yourself too hard. But I'm not in a little bit of hurting yourself. Do young fighters come up to you and ask you for advice? Never. Never. Never. Never.

Crazy. Why? Are you surprised by that? I guess, you know, people, since I've made weight the last two years, you know, people don't want to ask me anymore. When I was fighting 170, people used to ask me all the time, like, how do you make 170? You know what I'm saying? Now that I'm fighting 205, nobody ever asking me how do I make 205? they asked me how did I make 170? I'm like, by the grace of God, that was the only way. Do you think you were ever close to dying?

No, I don't think I was ever close to dying, but I damn sure felt like I wanted to die a couple of times. Wow. By the way, I got to ask you, what do you think of over him getting knocked out on Friday? I mean, it is where it is. He looks, to me. He looked fast. He looked at first, you know. But I think he always... he starts that way, you know, real crisp and then gets too comfortable and, you know,

so that all that happens. But a lot of people saying, you know, he got knocked out. It wasn't that you got knocked out. You know, when you get knocked out, you straight up drop. He got hit in the temple and, you know, that messed him up. You know, so it wasn't like he got knocked out cold. He just got caught and got surprised, and it is what it is. It happened all the time in the end of me.

Do you think he should stick around in UFC? Is he UFC worthy? I think he's still one of the top heavy weights in the world, in my opinion. You know, I don't think they're going to get rid of him. I mean, he's still going to sell tickets. People want to see him either win or either lose. You know what I'm saying? It's not like when Anderson was fighting or GSP was fighting, you know, and Chuck was fighting.

Well, you know, they wanted to see those guys dominate somebody. they don't, with him, they want to see him almost getting beat up now, you know what I'm saying? Because just of, you know, things he's done and things he's said or whatever, you know, got caught up with and stuff like, you know, just changed the view of people for him. You don't really want to fight him, though, right? I'll fight him, I don't care.

That makes no sense for you, though. Like a black movie. Right. It doesn't make sense, but they have to. Right, that's true. So why not? To me, it's just a fight. If I want to see it, I'm down to, but, you know what I'm saying?

I ain't know it to any fight. You'd go up to heavyway, right? You'd go back up? Would I go up to heavyway? Yeah, I mean him at a catchway. He said he was, what, 2.10 or something like that? I don't think that was the truth. Well, I doubt it was the truth, too.

Yeah. I think it was just to get everybody talking, which he did. Right. But if he really could go down to, if he wanted to meet me a time, 225, let's do it, or whatever. 220, I'd do that. We made it 2.30 on the doubt. If he was down that far, you know, let's do it.

You know, even if our father missed a dangerous fight, he still got weapons that's crazy. He was hitting Ben with some crazy knees. You know what I mean? But, I mean, he's a dangerous fighter still, but I definitely test him. He was doing the old John Jones kick to the knee. Did you see that?

Yeah, yeah, and that's what I'm saying. He looked different, for sure. I can tell him being at Greg Jackson's, you know, changed him a little bit, but it takes me for the better, in my opinion. Oh, wow. Some props.

I didn't expect that. Yeah, I mean, like I said, I don't have anything against him as a fighter. I think he's a beast when it comes to fighting. My things were other personal stuff. You know what I'm saying?

It was never his ability to fight. It was never that. So I like, I like support him as a fight. When I go out and whoops and ass, dude, do what you do? You know what I'm saying? Give the fans what they want to see. making money, go live life.

But other than that, you know what I'm saying? That's when I had an issue with him. And, you know, I read his comment about jealousy. Dude, there is nothing in the world I'm jealous about him. Nothing. You know what I'm saying? So I don't know where he gets the jealousy stuff from. You know what I'm saying?

So if he feels that way, he feels like somebody really want to be jealous of him, then all righty, you keep thinking that. Well, next up for you, hopefully, it's the fight that I think a lot of people want to see. You versus Alexander Gustafsson around the same time, maybe not on the same date, but around the same time as Jones versus D.C. By the way, one last question before we let you go, Jones, D.C., who are you picking? I don't know, man, it's a tough fight, you know. You got to pick one? I really want to pick D.C. for some reason.

Oh, wow. And John is a champion, but it ain't going to be easy. John is super tough. It wouldn't surprise me if John won, but for some reason, I just want D.C. to win. All right. Good luck getting the fight. Good job getting to this point as far as the fight is concerned, and I'm looking forward to seeing if the UFC actually does it. I think it makes a lot of sense. Appreciate the time, Anthony. Thank you.

All right, there he is. Anthony Rumble Johnson, one of the top contenders in the UFC's light heavyweight division. All right, let's move along. Speaking of light heavyweights, Stefan Bonner, former UFC fighter, current UFC Hall of Famer, now a member of the Belator MMA team, and on November 15th, he is going to face Tito Ortiz in a grudge match that has been building for quite some time as well.

It was in the spotlight on Friday at the Mohegan Sun in Connecticut. We'll talk about that and a whole lot more with the American Psycho right now, Stefan Bonner. Stefan, how are you? Pretty good. What's going on? Well, we got a lot to talk about, and I actually want to work backwards here.

We'll get to Friday in a second. First things first, why did you decide to come out of retirement and why with Bellator? Of course, you are synonymous with the UFC. You help revive the UFC with your fight with Forrest Griffin. Dana White always said you'll always have a place in the UFC, etc., etc. You know the story everyone else does. Why come out of retirement and do so with Belator right now, the number two organization in North America? Honestly, I had no desire to fight again.

I was happily retired. I got approached about the idea and said I wasn't interested. And then I got approached again and said, well, what if I could get your first fight with Tito? And I said, oh, my God, like, not only is that like the kind of fight I dreamed of, but on a personal level. I mean, I don't care for the guy. We got a lot of mutual friends, and he's done a lot of rotten things to people. So he said, you know what? And I'm jaded, too.

You know, Ben retired, didn't go out of the sport the way I wanted to. And, yeah, I got a little chip on my shoulder. So I'm like, that's perfect, man. Like, let's make that fight. And I'm just excited, motivated for that. I really, like, no one else really excited me like that. And, yeah, I ran that idea over with Dana. I got this crazy offer.

What do you think? And he goes, yeah, well, I hope you kick his ass, and I hope you make a lot of money. I was like, all right, then. No resistance at all. None. Did that surprise you? Kind of at first, but then, you know, I know about his relationship with Tito

and how it's been over the years. So, you know, he's pretty passionate about wanting to fight him. And I think he's pretty passionate about seeing him get his ass kick. So, voila. But perhaps more so, I mean, you're Stefan Bonner, Hall of Famer, the guy on Tough One, Forrest Griffin, and going to Bellator and going to the former home, Spike TV. He had no issues with that.

None whatsoever. Did you have some reservations at first? As far as between me and him, none of whatsoever. Did you have reservations? Yeah. Yeah, I did. I was kind of like, oh, boy, you know, like, I'm not going to burn my bridge with the UFC. You know, I got a good relationship with those guys.

They still do stuff for them. You know, I consider it like a family kind of. You know, I'm in the Hall of Fame. And, like, I wouldn't want to burn that bridge. And so that's why I ran an idea over with him first. And, hey, once he was okay with that, it was like, I couldn't find a reason not to do it. If he would have said, I'm not okay with it, but ultimately you're a grown man and do whatever you want. But for the record, I'm not okay with it.

Would you have done it? If he said, like, yeah, if you do this, you're going to jeopardize your relationship with us. Like, yeah, I probably wouldn't. Is this a one-off for you, or are you back? I don't know. I got one thing on my mind, and that's Tito Ortiz, really, you know? And just, I'm not thinking past him at all, you know? Who knows?

If I go out there, kick his ass, make a lot of money, and get another huge profile fight main event. Like, yeah, I mean, that's something I'd consider. But right now, yeah, I'm not going to think. about anybody else, but Cheetah-O-R-Teefe. What kind of shape are you in? I'm getting there. I mean, just push a little harder every day.

I started training like a month ago, and, you know, got a couple months of the fight, so I should be good to go. So, go ahead. I thought for, like, what, over 10 years, so it's not like I forgot how to fight. Just need to get polished, get in shape, and be ready. So the last time, of course, we saw you in action was UFC 153 against Anderson Silva. Shortly thereafter, you were to do. tired. What have you been doing since then?

Gay trading. And how's that going? I love it. I love it. There's nothing else like it. It's also like a ticket to freedom, you know? You're always so concerned with, oh, you know, I want to keep my job. I got to behave well. I want to get, you know, hired to do stuff and blah, blah, blah, blah. And now it's like I could just be myself because I don't give a damn.

I don't need a kid to anyone's ass. I don't need to fight for the money. I'm doing this because of my disdain for Tito Ortiz. That's pretty much it. Like, yeah, I know that every day I could go read the markets in real time and make decisions. And really, it's not like I'm saying I'm awesome. But no, I mean, I've been doing it a year and a half now, and I've been able to control my risks. So when I didn't know what I was doing, I didn't blow my account because I was playing small potatoes.

And now that I am, I'm still playing small potatoes and building the accounts slowly. And that's the key to it. It's like the best quote I heard on is, is you don't want to go broke before you hit your learning curve. It's just like everything else. I remember after, I'm in a great program, Open Trader, or Open Traders, the educational site and E-mini player is the room I'm in. And really, they teach it so good, like nobody else,

because I thought out, like, good educators. It took me a while to find them. And really, after, like, four or five months of, going through this school and I still suck and it was so frustrating. I was piss and moaning my friend like, well, I'm trying so hard because I wasn't just like

trading during the day. That's all I did. Like I get done with training, just go to the gym, get a little sweat, do something to energize me, then come back and just study for hours and hours. And seriously, like, for four or five months and I'm still sucking it, but I was still frustrated. It's like, how long do it take you to get your black belt? I'm like, oh, shit.

How long after Carlos and Grace who moved to the Chicago? did it take you to get awesome? What about after you move to Chicago six months later? I'm like, God, actually, no. You know, it took me a couple of years, you know, under his tutel and they get good. And that's the same thing.

It's like anything else. You pick up a guitar, it's going to take a little while to get good. You go to a new country to learn a foreign language. It's going to take at least six months to a year. And that really helped me. I was getting discouraged, and I'm like, you know what? Keep playing small potatoes. If I do lose, keep losing, I'll be losing small.

and just keep learning. If I learn the language, you learn to read the market in real time, and that's pretty much the bottom line. And finally, by the last three months, I've been pretty consistent, and it's just a great feeling that, oh, my God, it's like I'm finally learning to read. So is this all on hold now as you prepare for this fight, or can you do both? I don't know. I just, I actually, oh, man, I just had a great short trade today, closed out,

and I got in the position from the long side, and it was like, screw you, I got to go to the gym, I got to do Ariel's show, I don't want to be distracted. I closed it out, and I just checked the market before you call them that popped up. So I actually, you know, it costs me money. But the beauty of it is the golden hours to trade are, I'm in the West Coast, so Pacific's time. The market's open at 630, and those first two hours from 630 to 830 is what all the magic happened. So there are a lot of good professional traders who only trade the first couple hours in the morning and do great. And then really, that's where all the money is made.

After that, everything really flows down. It's usually like slow and balanced up until the last hour of the day. Then some crazy stuff happened. So it's really comes down the first two hours from the last hour. And, hey, none of my training starts until like either 10 a.m. or noon. So I'm always going to have those first couple hours in the morning. Great. Okay.

So they announce your signing. You're in Bellator. There's the quotes about Tito and whatnot. It seems like all signs pointing in that direction. But then we get to Friday. Mohican's son, you're brought into the cage alongside a man who is wearing a mask. Later we find out, he's wearing two masks, actually, and it's Justin McCully. They bring in Tito Ortiz as well.

You know, you say what you have to say. You unmasked Justin, although I don't think you ever identified him, but everyone kind of knew who he was, at least those in the hardcore MMA community. Tito pushes you. There's a bit of a melee, et cetera. We'll get to all of that. But how much did Scott Coker and Bellator know about it? Because from what I'm hearing, they say they don't know. They didn't know anything about it.

They didn't know about the masked man. I can't believe people are this stupid. There's people with all these conspiracy theories that sat like, you know, Scott Bellator had a shoulder on. That was his first Bellator that he was the president of. You know, he had a lot of stuff going on. This was part of it. Hey, let's bring Barron Tito out.

And the way our contract works is we go out to do stuff. We get a plus one. Let's bring them in the ring, announce the fight, ask a question to each guy. People think, like, they got us all over the whole. office together with Spike TV and the Bellator brass, me and Tito, and plan out this elaborate plan, you know? No.

Like, no one knew I was training with Justin McCulley or I'd been training with him the last couple weeks and he was here in Vegas. Like, nobody knew that, you know? I mean, come on. I'm a guy who just adores guys like Andy Kaufman or Borat that pulls fast ones on people. And really, I wanted to pull something on Tito. You know, personally, that dissain for him is completely. And that's the reason I didn't introduce Justin McCulley because it really didn't matter to the crowd.

It was for Tito. It was for Tito to see, look, this guy knows you really well, and he's got a lot of dirt on you, and he's in my corner. And like, ha, ha, Tito, that was for him. You know, I was pulling this on Tito, you know, and I lived for stuff like this. When they said they were going to do this, I was like, oh, my God, like, I excited me. I told Justin, like, what should we do? And I'm like, I know exactly what I'm going to say.

And I have my reasons for saying that, too. That's true, you know? Like, man, my former manager, Wayne Harriman, great guy, great guy. Like, he has such a great relationship with Dana. Remember when Dana White said Tito Ortiz will never get back in the UFC and done with him? He is a goner. Then all of a sudden, hey, a mutual friend got us to sit down and hash out our differences. And magically, Gio got back in the UFC and made some ridiculous paydays.

and then, of course, tried to screw Wayne on the money that's going to pay him. Wayne finally got it out of him, and then Gino comes back to him and says, you owe me that. I was alone. Pay me back to that. And on Dana's video log,

they showed Wayne, because he negotiated John Jones's deal, too. And Gito put some slander out there about him. And, I mean, these examples go all on and on. Like, you know, guys that have been his friends for a long, long time, like 10, 15 years. I'm not going to go into particulars, but even Tiki, like, said, man, you know, he's not a good dude. Like, he's done some shady shit.

I'm not going to get into honor respect for Tiki. But it's like, what? That's been your friends for, like, so long, you know? Like, he screwed you over, too, yeah. And Justin McCulley, you know, same thing. When I met him in 2003, a jungle fight. He had been trained with TIL for years. He helped him for so many of his camps.

And every camp, the same story. Okay, dude, I'll give you this much money after my fight. And he always shorted him. And he's forgive him and do his next camp and help him out. And another friend here in Vegas, he's been on Cheetos nuts for years. He's a friend of mine. And I always give him shit. Why do you like that guy so much?

Like, he's selfish. He doesn't care about you. No, no, he's my boy. He's my boy, man. I'm like, does he ever pay to you for helping him train for a fight? No, but that's cool. He's my boy. I'm helping him out.

And then for this fight with Shulmanko. He was out there for like six weeks away from his kids, wait from his family. Hey, it's Tito paying you. No, but it's cool. He's my boy. He's my boy. And then I hear from a man Tito's kind of dick, man

Dude's worth like $15 million And, you know We meet him up at the club He's got a table and then it hits me up for money And this is like a routine thing he does Hits the guy made him throwing a hundred bucks And comes back around and he'll give me more money Give me another 50

And after a Simago fight Same thing happened He was back in Vegas And I was talking home He's like, fucking Tito man Maybe fucking pay him For being at his table you know and I'm like man it's such a dick move you know like why he's still friends with

oh he's my boy he's my boy and then he was back in L.A. I get a call from what's gone. I'm in L.A. Oh, you're seeing Tito? Man, no, screw Tito. The hell with Tito. Like, whoa, where did this come out of? Like, you know how he always charges me for bottles at that club in Vegas? Well, I found out from the manager of the club that he was getting those bottles out this whole time. So not only is this guy going, giving his bloods, and tears helping him get ready and not getting paid. But Tito actually took profits off of him when he gets comp table somewhere. And all these stories tell the same thing, the reflections in character.

And it shows that, I mean, this guy is just full of this ego-dominated self-absorption, which makes me sick. Like, he's had a lot of people who's recognized his talent over there's and come out and help them. And I've heard this story over and over like a broken record. And there's some jealousy in there, too. I know all about him. I even know growing up his whole story with us. He wasn't the best student.

He was struggling in school. And the wrestling coach at his gym found him, took him under his wig. Peter's dad wasn't really there for him. This guy was like a father figure. Help him, you know? And he just knew he was the struggling student. It would help him, you know, get along past his school. He ends up getting a full right scholarship for his wrestling abilities.

And, I mean, yeah, I'm like, I'm jealous of that. I was always the average kid. I could pass my classes. I got season B. and stuff, but if I know any mean skips, they're saying athletically. You know, the coaches, you know, always say stuff to my brother like, you should kick your brother's ass more toughing him up. Isn't that probably be like I kick his ass all the time?

You know, buddy, you're going to lose your varsity spot today. May's going to challenge you, you know? And it's like, I don't know. And I always saw, man, if I had something like that, if I had people coming in to support me and help me, there's no way I'd screw him over. And I finally got that in my early 20s with Carlson Gracie. It was like, finally, man. someone who took me under his wing and taught me,

and was that guy that I always wanted. And Carlson, too, like, would he appreciate anything more than was hard? You know, he has his Carlson Gracie sweatshirt with roosters on it, and you think, oh, that's brutal cockpipes. But he's like, oh, no, someone who's tremendous hard. That's what he loves seeing. He'd have, like, super fights where guys would have grappling matches, like, at the end of class, they would be, like, white belts,

and he just loved doing it to see you have more heart in determination. That's what he loved about me. He took me under his wing, and I got that. And you could go around. You could ask guys like Miguel Torres or Forrest, Alex Schoenauer, Mark Eligrani, or Duke Rufus. Go ask him about me if I ever screwed him over. And I haven't made a fraction as much money Tito has in his career.

None of those guys will say a bad thing about me. And, yeah, that's why I have a problem with Tito. Are you happy with the way it all unfolded? Oh, it's perfectly. You liked it, okay? Because some, some said, too pro wrestling, we don't want this crap in MMA, the mask, all this, the back and forth, going, you know, talking about personal stuff. It was, it was mixed reviews, right?

I mean, you would agree with that, but are you happy with it? For sure, I knew that. I knew that was a risk. I knew that. I'm like, you know, I'm coming out, like, I don't like this guy for one. I'm not going to play nice anymore. You see, like, I love doing the interviews and doing funny stuff on them, but I've never, like, went after someone like this, Because I never really had to.

I never really disliked anyone I thought like this. And now I do. And I have that opportunity to. And I'm not going to blow it. And I know, man, people are going to be so mad at me. You know, like, oh, I'm disrespecting to you, though. And that's, you know, low and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But it's like, you know what?

Like my job, for one, is to be honest with myself and how I feel about this guy. For two, it is get eyes tuning into this fight. And hey, say what you want. Say you hated that or you think it was all staged by Bellator and whatnot. I walked in there with Justin McCulley. He had a mask on. That was the first time I ever met Scott Coker in person. And he looked at me, he goes, what the hell?

The people from Spike TV looked at me to go, what the hell? And I'm like, what are we going to do in there? He's like, well, Jimmy's just going to ask you each one question. How long do you got? Well, how long do you need? I'm like, just 30, 45 seconds. Can I have that? He's like, yeah.

And he looked at me just shaking his head. And I'm like, don't want. worry. It's all going to make sense at the end. That's all out of the point. Just trust me. He goes, all right. They didn't ask you who that was? They didn't ask you who's the guy? No. They had no idea who it was. And the funny thing was, there was a bunch of people that knew

Justin, and Justin knew them, and he's behind a mask. Like, oh, God, I want to say hi to this guy. But I can't let the cat on the bag just yet. But they didn't say, like, you can't bring this guy in. I mean, we need to know who's in our cage. They didn't have any problem with that? No. I mean, he's my plus one. That's my guy. You're about to bring someone?

all made sense. Trust me. And they took a chance, you know? They took a chance and let me do what I planned on doing. And thank God they did, because I love the way. I love the look on Cheeto's face, you know. He's sitting there thinking, you know, I'm just yada yada, yada, make it, you know, going to talk a little smack, and then he sees Justin, and then he gets pissed off.

Then I bring up Jen, and then he gets really pissed off. And that's what I want. I even told Scott, hey, what's going too far? I'm not going to punch him or anything, but pushing shoving, he's like, well, you know, like, it's up to the commission, you might get fine and whatnot. I was just thinking my head, man, I don't want to be the one to push him. But, you know, I know as soon as I unveil Justin and bring up Jenna, he's going to snap. And it works perfectly.

Did they say anything to you afterwards about it? Like, did they say, oh, we didn't like that there was a melee? You know, was there any feedback from Scott or Spike or anyone involved? Honestly, after that, I hadn't talked to, I didn't talk to a, to Scott. Actually, after that, Tito was so hidden fuming, they wanted to break us up, so they took us back in the production room

away from them. That's where we watched the Chandler fight. And then after that, we just flip back away out of the arena. And so, yeah, I knew, like, they probably wouldn't be crazy about it, but, you know, I did find out During that, Stone I pulled on to, you know, the, I was, number one trending on Twitter in the North America continent.

And then also, there are a couple versions of this posted online. One of them is up to a quarter of a million views already. The other one has over 100,000 views. There's a couple other that are around the 5 to 10,000 mark. So say what you want, hate me, whatnot, but that was my goal. To piss Tito off and to get people's up. eyes on this, and I did that. What do you make of the decision to go head-to-head with the Velascus-Radume fight?

I mean, it's not going to go head-to-head with the fight, but the card it will be going head-to-head with as far as that night, same night all that said. You know, I had no idea. We actually, they were saying November 7th or 14th, and it wasn't until I got there that I found out it was the 15th. And, I mean, honestly, I was surprised. I think it's pretty balzy, you know? That's a big, balsy move by a...

Yeah, by Bolitor. Well, I mean, we'll see, man. It's not my decision. I'm not an executive. I just have to go in there and do my job. And my job is not to really go in there and win a fight. I want to go beat Tito up, you know? That's my goal.

That's my goal. He's going to try to hold me down for dear life and make this fight boring. But my goal in this fight is not to allow Cheeto to make it a boring fight. Is there more of this stuff to come? More Andy Kaufman-esque pranks, antics? We're just getting started. When did Justin McCully reach out to you? When did this start?

Like, I've hung out with him over the years and that, and then when he found out, when I first got this offer, he had been in Vegas, and, like, I talked to him about it, and she was just so excited. Oh, my God, dude. I've helped Tito for years get ready for fights. I know everything about them. Like, please let me help you.

Get ready for this fight. And, you know, the guy did a good job with him. Tito won a lot of fights with Justin's just in this corner. Move on top. And if anyone knows Tito Ortiz, it's Justin McCoy. Also from the psychological aspect, I think it's a good idea. So he will be in your corner, right? Yes.

And the root, I mean, you were called the root of this issue. I mean, you talked about all the things you don't like about him, but when did you really hate this guy? I remember there was a video interview that you did with your Australian friend at the Expo where you talked about wanting to fight a bit. At that point, you had already retired. You were about to be inducted and all that stuff. When was the first time you realized that you really hate this guy and want to fight him?

Probably. UFC 33. What happened? Way back in, what was that, 97 or 98 maybe? 33, I believe, was like 2001. Was it that late? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.

That's right. That was their first show back on pay-per-view. It was a big deal. Yeah. September 2001. Because I was graduated from Purdue and lived in the city of Chicago. Okay. So I've always been, you know, since UFC won.

I love this sport. You know, it's been the coolest thing I've ever seen. And, man, and the hardest thing was convincing all my friends it was this school. So finally, 2001, you know, I started training. And I mean, I'm thinking I had my first fight later in 2001. So I was just really getting into it and started boxing and thinking about fighting. And UFC's finally back on pay-per-view. Cool, I have people over for this.

Order the pay-per-view. Have everyone throwing five bucks because, you know, I've always been poor, you know? I mean, now I do all right in that. But growing up in that, like, you know, I didn't come from a rich family, and I had to pay everything my own way. And then, yeah, I'm having a UFC pay-per-view. and all my friends come over, chip in a little. Help me pay for it.

And so, yeah, everyone threw in five bucks, and we get to the, you know, first the card totally sucked. It's not totally Cito's fault. Was it shitty? These fights were shitty. But we thought, oh, my God, Cito or Cia is the main event. Defend this title against Matashenko. This is going to be a good one.

And it just sucked. It was just the boring-a-shit fight. And I had people at the end of it. They were giving me crap. Like, you like this crap? Well, I was just like, they called all my fucking. like they should call it ultimate land on each other

this is stupid man give me my $5 back and I actually had to pay people back and then Cito afterwards won and got oh yeah one and he did his little grave dinner whatnot and all that stupid stuff and

I was just like God really like he's proud of that performance that just disgust me and I remember telling people then like you'll see I'm going to do this someday and I'm going to show you how cool this sport is I'll show you how cool this sport is. And I did.

Honestly, Tito was headlined the main events of the pay-per-views before Ultimate Fighter 1. He was on all the big fights. And go talk to Dana Lorenzo. They were ready to sell the UFC. They were losing money. It was going under. It was a sinking ship. So I had to step up alongside Forest and save them.

Save them from selling this organization. Save it from extinction. So in a way, Cheeto was taking the sport under, and we stepped up and hit a home run and got people back on board. So if anything, he should be thanking me. He wouldn't have been coaches of those other seasons' ultimate fighter. He wouldn't have got those fights against Ken Shamrock that he beat easily and made a lot of money. That's another thing, too. And Ken Shamrock's on Twitter telling me to have some respect.

Tell me to have some respect for Tito Ortiz. Hey, Ken, this is the same guy who'd be able to. guy, night skirt, went in the corner, started giving you the middle finger. You were telling him, show some respect, show some respect. This is the guy that after he beat you, put on a shirt that said, I killed Kenny. That's so disrespectful.

Really? And you're going to stick up for him? I don't understand that. Let's end on this stuff. And, you know, I remember we talked to you after UFC 153, you were obviously very disappointed in the result. And, of course, afterwards, tested positive for PEDs. And, you know, you had your side of the story,

but it was a very unceremonious exit. That was the lowest point. That was the worst thing I ever went through. I mean, oh, that just sucked, too. Oh, remember, like, what was it in February? We were doing the show together. You were with Dana? He's like, what's next for Stefan?

And Dana's like, well, Stefan, honestly, I thought it was retirement. You know, we came and we talked about it. Yeah, I went in there like a baby. I begged him, like, for the big fight. So let me coach the show with Forrest. So let me do all that. and no, it wasn't going to happen.

Give it up, man, you know, give it up. It's not going to happen. Not getting the big fights. And then we kind of did. We come to the conclusion I should hang it up. In March, I have in my email a letter from them saying, you know, like this is like your retirement letter and blah, blah, blah, blah. It was a retirement letter.

Kind of condoning that I'm not going to be fighting for them again, right? Right. And then, yeah. And then, freaking what, in like August or something, I get a call to go and train Bigteef. It was a big 280-pounder. Then a guy at my gym always helps me get ready for fights. Carl Posma is a big 280-pounder.

I haven't been in the gym. I'm weak skinny. I went and got some stem cell procedures on my knees and just took a lot of time off, and I'm like, crap. I get injured. I'm really injury-prone. So it was like, you know what? I got a month until I have to leave and go train with Dave.

Right? When I get back from that, I'll be helping Carl. So, yeah. I don't have to be worried about getting drug tested anymore. I'm going to do steroids. I'm going to do a cycle of steroids. My goal to get big and strong. I'm going to eat a lot, lift heavy weights, and don't got to worry about my cardio,

don't got to worry about making weight. And, hey, you know, don't got to worry about getting drug tested. So, like, that's what I did. I mean, I never thought I'd fight again. And by the time I got that call, like, I had been off them for a couple weeks. So I was like, oh, man, now I just worked on my cardio. and freaking diet really good and be ready for this fight. And, hey, I beat Anderson Silva.

Shipped out of my system. I'm going to rule the world. Completely blew up in my face. And, of course, you know, was the worst thing that ever happened to me. It was the closest to often myself I've ever been. And it just sucked. Yeah. So, so anyways, what was my point?

Well, my question was, is this part... Yeah, that's why I'm so jaded now. Is that part of the reason why you're coming back? You don't want to end on that note. Well, I mean, definitely. That's a terrible way to go out. It really is. And I mean, it's for a while.

I couldn't even watch it. Like, I start watching the UFC or fighting and just get depressed. So, I mean, I just, and I couldn't even go on Twitter. Like, the only, for about a year. I only use Twitter for, you know, a couple guys I followed. to regarding the stock market, how the markets are doing and whatnot, and their insights. And other than that, like, every time I post anything outside of that, you know, people would call me a cheater and a piece of shit. It's just, you know, something you don't want to have to deal with it.

You don't want to be sitting there defending yourself, like, you know, for, so I didn't even. I'd go, like, months without tweeting. And when I'd actually go months without tweeting, because I just checked some of the other people I cared about, terms of the reason of the market to their reads and what they're getting from it and maybe ask them a question so yeah i mean i just stayed off away from that all together it was uh yeah it was hard you know like you know every time you turn around uh you know people are are ripping on you and and saying that shit about you so it was hard to deal with yeah really um well stephan uh welcome back uh good luck in the fight good luck in preparing for for tito and uh i i

I look forward to what more you have in store. You said we're just getting started. So can we be expecting this on a weekly basis? How is the stuff going to get rolled out? What's that? You said we're just getting started as far as the antics, the material on Tito, the promotional tools that you will use to sell this fight.

So when's it going to get rolled out the next one? I haven't thought of anything yet. Oh, okay. It's like they're going to have us probably on shows together going face-to-face back and forth. I mean, it's a hot topic. They want to build its fight. They're going to have us do stuff together, and, you know, I'm going to have to come up with some good material.

But, yeah, if you think Scott Coker and Spike TV is writing this material, you're nuts. What do you think they really came out and said, okay, Stefan, why don't you talk shit about his ex-gena, and then have him call you guys drug addicts, which is actually complete slander. I mean, I got crap about slandering him. Like, he called me a drug addict. Like, really? Where did you get that one from? Well, I mean, I think he's referring to the positive test, right?

That's, I don't know. Drug addict to me means, like, you know, someone doing recreational drugs. Mac and crack and all that. Right. All right, well, again, best of luck. Thank you so much for coming on the show. And good luck in the fight. Looking forward to it, November 15th in San Diego, California.

Thank you, Stefan. We'll talk to you soon. Thanks, bye. There he is. Stefan Bonner joining us. Okay, let's move along now because we're a little bit late. Let's go to our next guest, King Mo Llewal, big win over Dustin Jacoby in this new era for Bellator. He joins us right now via the phone. King Mo, how are you? Chill-in, man.

What's so much? Well, congratulations on the win. I got to ask you, you were there. What did you make of that whole scene in the cage between Stefan Bonner and Tito Ortiz? I said, you know what? I didn't know what the hell was going on. I saw a dude with the mask on. And I thought it was a magician guy.

You know what I'm talking about the magician guy that, because of the secrets of, like, magic? Oh, yeah. I thought, man, I was like, what is that magician guy doing in the rain? And all of a sudden, like, you know, it takes a mask out. And the guy makes a face, like,

you know who I am? And everyone was like, who is that guy? And I was like, they do it was familiar, but he has cornrows. Who is that? And then backstage, somebody says,

Jeff McCull has like, that is him. I'm like, why the hell has you got corn rolls? I'm like, what the hell is doing in the cage?

You know, I got, you know, I got some point where I just got confused. I know what's going on and I was like, you know what?

So I would cut my rap sauce. This is weird. I think that, I do, I do itself like. Yeah. I understand it. I think that pretty much

sums up how everyone felt about the whole thing. I'm wondering as a member of the team, and part of this new era and you're obviously happy and we'll get to that. Did you think that was a bad look?

Did you think that that was kind of a little too much? That was too much pro wrestling. And we've talked about pro wrestling and you're all about showmanship and all that, but was that not the right direction, in your opinion? Well, you know what? When it comes down to it, it doesn't matter what people would do.

Because people are mind made up. You know, Coburg could announce it not to fight and then people would be like, that's lame. Piot could have punched Bonner and they could have a all-out fist fight, and people would be like, you know what, that stage, Bellator paid those two guys that punched you in the face.

It makes no difference, you know what I'm saying? Like, people are going to be negative or positive. You know, I don't know what they say because we don't pay attention, you know. I know that people are going to say, you know, that's so bellatory, it stays, blah, blah, blah, but I don't know. You know, I know what in stage,

because I can see how Coakranen were acting, you know what I'm saying? And I know what it stays because I don't think anyone would be. wanted a mascot to be in the cage to start an outbreak, you know what I'm saying? Or, you know, some sort of, like, you know, some ruckus. But I don't know. To me, it's just weird.

It made no sense. But you know what? Like, Seth a bond of the commas cycle for a reason. He just does things like the way you want to do it. So, my hat's out to him. Other than that, and what was it like for you? This was your first fight under the new regime. You know Scott Koker well.

You fought firm in Strike Force. Last time you fought, there was all this other stuff going on between you and Bjorn. pay-per-view, rampage, this time around. Did it feel like a different organization? Was this just a huge breath of fresh air for you? Everything felt different, man. Especially the cage. You know, I could move.

I can move on how I wanted to move. I could cut. Wouldn't know slide. And you see all the fights. People, like, you know, people, you know, they're a good fight. You know what's not? You know, people out there are banging. You know, it was a good card.

You know, everybody, everybody fought hard with great crowd. You know, so, you know, it was cool. I enjoyed myself. What did you make of the way they sold your fight? I mean, I thought it's great, you know, take down that fourth wall, do that more often, especially when you're trying to compete with the UFC, talk about the stuff that everyone else is talking about, and in the past, you know, they wouldn't talk about that, like the Eddie Alvarez situation.

They made a whole promo about you accusing him of being a dick rider and explaining the term and all that stuff. I mean, I got to admit, I didn't expect that to happen, but I give him a problem. props for doing it. Were you surprised that they went there? You know, I was real surprised

but the same time I was happy because I don't think people are still talking about but then if they watched it, they're like,

man, it doesn't make sense. But now people are, the term I, you know, the term has been out there right, and people are

misused it again, you know, saying, like, you know, I put it out there to where it was and that's what I felt like

the Mioram was doing at the time. And really, everybody, everybody thought that, but now everybody's just,

using it like, you know, loosely. You know, if you're, you know, if you're, you know, cause for a dick ride, he has to have to have the facts and be real about it. You still don't throw it out there and say they're a dick rider and they really ain't. So what is the real definition?

What's the right way to use it? Like, okay, it's like to say, um, for instance, um, you know, I was going to fight and the junkyard dog. And you're like, man, well, the junked dog,

uh, he hit so hard. It's so hard. so quick, so strong. He can't stop his headbutt. Man, the dance, he could dance so good. Oh, man, you see his white boots. Oh, man, his chain-thel shiny.

Oh, man. Excessive chilling, you're dick riding. That's what the big riding. Excessive chilling. That's big riding. Whose idea was it to put that together? Do you know? I have no idea, but it kind of threw me out because, you know,

I live on watching a TV, and if I do watch TV, it's like reality TV. Like, well, in hip-hop in New York, loving hip-hop is Orlando, real house size of Atlanta, real house size of, you know. You watch that? Big brother. Oh, yeah, bad girls club.

I love that stuff, man. Like, naked and afraid. I almost got away with it. All that weird stuff, but I liked it. But, you know, someone told me that, like, no, your promo thing was pretty cool. I was like, what you mean? Like, yeah, he talked about dick rides and this and that.

I'm like, for real. I still ain't seen it yet. I'm going to be real with you. I still ain't seen it yet. What? You really haven't. No. Why? Because I was busy watching Rubber and Hip Hop Atlanta on for other shows.

Come on, man. It's a two-minute clip. You can watch it on your phone. No, no, listen. You watch Rubber and Hip Hopin, Atlanta. I've never even heard of it. See, Steve Jay, listen, you've watched Stevie J.

It's the best thing on TV right now. He's the best thing on TV. Johnwood, Hernandez, Mimi, real scrappy, you know, Rashida, Kurt. I love that show. I love it. That is Nigger Turtles.

I watch NIGA Turtles. Ninja Turtles? No, N-I-G-G-A-T turtles. What's that? Get to watch it, man. It's like the best thing ever, man. You get to watch it. Nigger Turtles, go YouTube, and type in Nigger Turtles.

It's amazing. That's not on TV, though, right? No, no, no. It's on YouTube. Okay. It's great, yeah. Yeah, you have to watch it. Okay, but here's my point.

You're on YouTube. it's a two and a half minute clip you're not curious at all to check it out to see what they made about you I'm gonna be real sure I'll watch them about me I really not watch them about me I kind of I I know I know what I do I know what I said so what's the point of watching it yeah well just to see how they put it together you know yeah but I know I know what I said and you know people it's like this I can say like the urge is blue and it's green and whatever and people but most stupid I mean like you know the urge is circular you know circular most stupid.

There's people like most on point. So regardless, I know I'm gonna get like, um, different views on stuff, so it doesn't matter. I know people are either love it or hate it. So I ain't know what to expect. Was this past weekend the first time you saw Coker since you fought firm in Strike Force? Second time.

I saw him, uh, I saw him at the Temeckler show. Oh, that's right. Okay. What was your, what was your reaction when you found out that he was the guy that was chosen to be in charge? I started tap dancing Just some backflips You know I'm checking and john

I did everything I was happy man I went outside Screamed Like he'll come into America Yeah I'm like I love this country

You know what I'm saying You know what I'm saying You Yeah Yes Yes So cute I was like that man

I was like yeah I felt like that Man with that When I started screaming And yelling I felt great man It was good It was something

I felt like You feel like this I feel happy myself but I felt more happy for the people that worked with them because I know people came to me and was like, Mo,

oh man, what you said about Beyond was on point I had to work with him. I don't know how he had to deal with them but I had to deal with them every day, blah, blah, blah. I know people,

I feel like them. And I felt bad for some of the people and look at Eddie Alvarez. Look, he's in a great situation now. He got to deal with him. He got his release. He's happy. He loves to get paved.

He's a chance to, you know, put on a good show, playing on a good fight versus a Charoni. You know, wanted, you know what I'm saying? That's cool. Did you have any idea that he was on the outs? Like, when you did all that stuff before the rampage fight, were you trying

to put that public pressure on Spike on Viacom to get rid of him? Did you know that he was kind of on thin ice? But there are rumors, but the thing is, I feel like, you know, he might have been, but no one knew for sure there are rumors, but more than anything, like, I think that

you know, the way it was looking, like, I think that you know, Spike TV ain't dumb. If I come home, I figured that it was going to be sooner or later when he was getting through. What did you think of your performance on Friday? You had a few changes in opponent. You end up with Dustin Jacoby, former UFC glory fighter kickboxer. You beat him in the second round. What do you think of it?

It was cool. Like, first round, like, you know, I was out there, you know, whatever. Second round, I stopped him, you know, whatever. I just, you know, I got a little while. But the thing is, like, you know, I was trying to make it up. Because, you know, last time I was in Connecticut, you know, I fought, and it was a terrible fight because I was slipping and Vaz was slipping. So I was like, you know what?

This is the first time I was like, you know what? At the first time I was like, you know what? So slippery, I'm going to decisionable. Because I'm like, man, like, I'm slipping. He's stripping. I'm like, I'm playing smart. And they started booing me, which they could boo me, whatever. So when I come back, they start booing me, but I was like, you know what?

I'm going to make sure, you know, if they boom me, boom me because what I do after the fight. but they didn't get booed me during the fight. The last time they booed me during the fight. So I was like, they could boo me, but they had to be for my celebration, not for the way I fight. Speaking of your celebration, after you defeated him,

you went on the mat and you were kind of, I guess, mimicking someone who's swimming or diving, and then you did what appeared to be the DX crotch chop. And at first I was like, all right, I don't really understand the first part. I get the second part. You're kind of telling them to suck it. But then as I'm texting with you,

every time there's a signature, it says the dive team. So I'm assuming that you're referring to that. So let's talk about the diving. What is that all about? What's the dive team and what were you doing in the cage? Okay, first, let me do it. Well, I go in the cage, I do a diamond cutter.

Shout to my boy, EDP, you know what I'm saying? And VE.P. Yoga. I do a domic cutter, I'm going to go in. That's my new thing now. Okay. Now the dive team is about, it's a group, it's pretty much team thirsty. We're thirsty. We're not that thirsty no more because we're actually, we're actually going places,

so we're not thirsty. But the thing is we're diving. We die. I have been here first to eight challenges. And every challenge with no fear. You know what I'm saying? We're willing to swim the sharks. Now, if you're scared, you jump in feet first.

When you die, you get tipped up in a body bag, feet first, you know what I'm saying? We try to live. We go in here first and go hard. That's how we do things, the die team. A-K-T die team. We got the die team up as AK. We're worldwide, man. Who's a member of this team?

It's pretty much same people's Team Thirsty. Okay, okay. saying? Yeah. But I got my upsy, I got my, I got my offshoot branch down there at ATT, you know what I'm saying? George Mastodal, I repeat, George Mastodal is not part of the team, he never will be. I can't accept

him. Why? Yeah, man, Sandbag nations? Never. At Kobe Cumberton, definitely. You know, he's my capos. You know what I'm saying? Kobe is part of the diet team. Brian Harris, you know, he's a straight coach, part of the

team. A boy, John Heyman, A.k.a. heart-knit part of it, you know what I'm saying? We're only kind of deep down American top teams. So, do you have an issue with Mosvedo? Yes. I'll call with him, but now, he got his own clip called the Sandbag Nation.

You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, it's hard to explain, like, while me and my members of the Dodd team, we're going hard, training hard, there'll be, like, you know, taking big wider breaks, sitting around. He's sandbagging, you know what I'm saying? call him

Sanbag Nation. Right. He's the SB Nation. Oh, whoa. Wait a second. I know. I work for SB Nation.

Well, you work for S&A, you work for Mazzalo? Because Natchel is part of the SB Nation. Are you trying to take a shot at my parent company now? No,

I'm just talking about basketball. All right, all right. San Bagan. And what's up with the DX crotch chop? Oh, because there's boring me, man.

So I was like, y'all can suck you like DX say. I love DX. You know what I said? My boy, shout out for my boy, Sean Wallabon, I met him for the first time in San Diego. That's my dog, you know what I'm saying?

Hopefully we can do some independent shows together because, you know, Xbox's my dog, man. Let me tell you something. When I met him, I was like, Xbox. You know, black people, we love you. He's like, I know, man. He's like, let me tell you something. I got so many hood passes just to be an Xbox.

He's like, I was in the wrong place and the wrong time and people will see me. Like, oh, you're Xbox. I'm going to let you slide. That's my dog. Man, shout out to Xbox, you know what I'm saying? If y'all follow my Twitter, too, Xbox go real hard. Just...

And Gangrel. Gangrel go hard, too. And by the... Man, you're dropping some names. Just make sure you don't get that Xbox heat. You don't want that kind of heat. Oh, yeah, I heard about the Xbox heat. You know what I...

You know what I'm saying? I know what the Xbox heat, but I won't be getting it. All right, all right. I'm just, I'm a little worried. By the way, who makes sense for you next? now that there's no more tournaments anything like that who does King Moe want to fight

I don't know I don't really care man you know I'm a money waiter you know what I just fight for the money Are you really going down to 185 It's a option I'm down to do that I actually wait in a 202

you know what I mean to weigh in it 202 I actually wait in that light so I can make 185 it's not a big deal do you like that they're doing just 16 shows next year no more tournament.

It's reminiscent of, you know, the old Strike Force days. Do you like that better than what they had now? The seasons and all that. Yeah, because it's like this. Quality means nothing. Quality means a lot more. It's like this. Say you got 100 females, right?

And they all look like threes and twos. I would have six jobs to 100 threes and twos. You feel I'm saying? Yeah. So it's like this, like, that's why I think you may have made them wire it down

you know what I'm saying even to the point like I'm not nothing to see you see because they're doing their thing but back

the day you know what I saw with us watching it I remember when a USC that would come on and you know somebody person that was rich

but you know what how about this I'm gonna order the event Mo Pitching $5 hey y'all pitching 5 so and so

someone's been the pizza hey oh boy being the soda we're gonna have these people come through and it'd be like 50 people though

at some of my career, blasting events. But now they've got so many events going on. Even those were last year had a lot of many events going on. You got the point where I'm going to be real with you. I try to watch the big. That's the point where I forget it as long because I'm watching something else.

Are you still going to do the broadcasting for Invicta? I know you couldn't do it this weekend, but are you still doing that? I hope so. If I can't, you know, I'm still a big supporter of Invicta because Invicta puts on quality. Right. Great shows. Chan, Nat, I know what she's doing. Them girls go out there.

other routes and many each other, you know, for that ruthless. When do you want to fight again? I'll fight next month. Next month. Yeah, man, we have the map. It looks like this, man. For the love of money. Like bone goes to home, you say. For the love of money.

That's true. Well, Mo, good to hear from you. Congratulations on the win. Enjoyed it. Enjoyed the celebration afterwards and your explanation of it today. And happy to hear that you are happy, that you're in a happy place, that there are no more controversies or issues with the

promoter and things like that, it's good to see. So I appreciate you coming on and wish you all the best, as always. Appreciate it, man. All right, there he is. The one and only King Mohammed Llewal, joining us, big win for him, getting back on track against Dustin Jacoby this past Friday. Okay, one more guest to go and let us go to the Skype machine and welcome in the lawyer for Vandrelay Silva. This man, if you follow mixed martial arts, you've surely heard his name, read about him, you know of him. He has represented the likes of Van der Leis, Silva, Nick Diaz, and many others. And at one time, brief period, was a promoter of mixed martial arts. Of course, I'm talking about Ross Goodman, who is also the son of former

Las Vegas mayor, Oscar Goodman and current Las Vegas mayor Caroline Goodman, correct? I'm right? You got it. Yeah, they happen to be my parents. Yes. Wow. That is exciting stuff. Okay, so So first off, thank you so much, Ross, for coming on the show. We have a lot to talk about, so let's get right into it. What is the current status of the Evangelized Silva case, if you will, in Nevada? We know about what they've said, your response, and recently they've responded, and you've responded, and there's a hearing coming up in late September. Where do we stand right now for just the casual fan that doesn't get all this stuff?

We're looking forward to having that hearing, and looking forward to making those arguments in a public forum, and hopefully we can prevail to common sense with respect to the commissioners. This issue can't be more black and white. I think obviously everybody understands that you have to consent, you have to be a licensee, before anybody can take any sort of action against you. It's a basic premise of due process. and the chapter under which the commission Oh,

may have lost them. Ross? Now, let's call him back. Lost them there. We'll give the Skype one more shot. If not, we'll just call him on the phone. He is in Las Vegas right now. As you may recall, the Nevada Athletic Commission

asked Van der LeSilva to take a random drug test on May 24th prior to his fight. at UFC 175 against Chelsun, which obviously never came to fruition, and they claimed that he did not take the test. In fact, quote-to-quote, ran away from the test. It later came out that he was not a licensed fighter in the state of Nevada at the time. And in short, as he was beginning to, oh, there he is. Ross, you back? Back. Okay. We'll fight through that. If not, we'll just call you on the phone. But right now, the connection is crystal clear. So you were saying, you were saying that he has to be a licensed fighter essentially, right, to punish it.

Listen, everybody I think understands the fact that you can't discipline somebody who is not licensed before you. It's as plain as that. The actual complaint alleges that Van der Leigh violated their drug policy. And if you look in the statute, if you look at the section that they're trying to discipline Vanillae under it clearly states that you have to be a licensee. You know, I've read everything involved with this. particular issue. And they do say, I want to get your response to this. It says, this is, this is

from their response to you, opposing your opposition, essentially, saying, a licensure is not a prerequisite to discipline. There is express statutory authority in Nevada revised statute, chapter 467, to discipline, quote, unquote, a person, even if the person's conduct does not relate to a contest or exhibition of unarmed combat. They later said, this has been promoted, this fight was promoted, he was doing press conferences, he was doing interviews. Everyone knew that this fight was happening July 5th, Las Vegas, UFC 175. So in essence, the licensure was just, you know, a formality. It was about to happen. What is your response to that? Okay, let's just call them. This is we can't do this every time. Good to see him, though, on the, on the Skype machine.

They, they later on said if the, if the Nevada legislature intended for the commission to hear disciplinary cases against licensees only, they could just as easily have replaced the phrase, quote, disciplinary action against a person, end quote, to quote, disciplinary action against a licensee. Moreover, the section of the Nevada Administrative Code that Silva says deprives the commission of jurisdiction, uses the term licensee and the term unarmed combatant. So in essence, Mr. Goodman is saying that you have to be a licensee in order for Nevada to punish you in any way if you fail a drug test or refuse to take a drug test. And they are saying, no, it's licensee or a quote-unquote person or

unarmed combatant. So I think that's the issue at play here. And the hearing that we were talking about is happening later on in September, I believe it's September 23rd. And this case, which is, you know, one of the many unfortunate aspects of this case is that, you know, the Vitor Belfort situation has been resolved. He is fighting December 6th. The Chil-Sunnan situation has been resolved. He received a two-year suspension. The Vandali Silva situation continues to drag on and on. both of those issues, Belford and, well, Belford started a little earlier, but it all came to light around the same time, and the sun and situation happened at exactly the same time. They have been resolved.

So you wonder how long this is going to continue, especially when, you know, you got guys like Dan Henderson asking to fight Vanderlei Silva again, and he is obviously still a name in this sport and still somewhat of a draw, and you wonder how long this thing will drag on. So it's an interesting one because Nevada, you can. say made the same mistake with Vitor Belford. Vitor Belfort was not a licensed fighter when they asked him to take a drug test that Friday morning in February in Las Vegas prior to the World MMA Awards. But he did take the drug test and they didn't release the results, but he didn't have to. He was not required to do so. So I believe we have Ross on the phone now. Ross, you there?

I'm back. Thank you. Okay. I know this is going to work. All right. So I was pretty much giving both sides. here, but when Nevada says that, look, it's not just licensee, it's, quote, unarmed combatant, quote, a person related to a contest. When they are promoting a fight happening on July 5th, UFC 175, there's a press conference, there's interviews, all this stuff. Yes, he isn't licensed just yet, but all signs are pointing in that direction and it's a formality.

What's the response to that? Because everyone was assuming, including the UFC, that this fight was going to happen. Well, I think you said formality. Dana said technicality, but it makes all the difference in the world. It specifically says, it expressly says that you have to be a licensee. It's as plain and simple as that. The opposition that you're referring to where Chris Eccles takes a position, there's express statutory authority to say otherwise, there's not.

He doesn't cite anything. He takes one section out of context. says, quote, a person, end quote. First of all, before I even explain that, if you took that at faith value, then what he's saying is that the commission would have authority, lawful authority to discipline anybody that's a person. That on his face is absurd. That's a reasonable.

If you look at the actual statute where he took that from, the statute is a licensing statute, and it talks about persons pursuant to the statute. You have to read everything in context. And when you look at all the rules that I've cited to in both my motion and reply, it talks about who those persons pursuant to the chapter are. Who are they? They're contestants, promoters, ring officials. Those people must be licensed before they commission. There is no statute which talks about that they can discipline somebody because they're a person.

Why did Vanderlae Silva run away from the test? Why didn't he say, look, I'm not licensed, I don't have to take this? Why didn't he say that to them if this is the stance that you guys are taking? Well, I think it caught everybody off guard because the commission really doesn't do random tests on people who aren't licensed before them. They do random tests on people who are licensed before the commission. And in fact, as you know, in our last conversation, I told you, if you just go up on their website. And if you look at their formal policy on drug testing, they publish it on their own website. It's directed to the notices to licensees, all licensees. It doesn't say non-licensees.

I mean, so if you're going to randomly test somebody, that presumes that that person is licensed before the commission. You can show up at any time you want, but you can't show up and you don't have the authority, Ariel, which is really what the issue is. So how can Van der Leigh didn't say what he said? He was shocked. He was caught off guard with somebody showing up, even though he didn't sign about agreement with the UFC yet at that point, and he wasn't a licensee. So instead of trying to accuse Vandalay, I think the issue should be how come the commission

is pursuing something, which is on his face clearly. Clearly wrong, taking action against somebody who's not licensed before them. What they should do is take this as a learning lesson and go ahead and make future agreements or amend the rules to try and prevent that from happening. For example, saying to the UFC, if you're going to, before you can promote somebody on a card, you have to have them sign about agreement and you have to concurrently have that person, test or submit to a drug test. And that resolves all those issues.

But because there's a gap in the area, don't violate basic due process by trying to take action against a non-licensee. At a hearing on June 17th in your statement, this is the first time that this was discussed at a Nevada hearing just a couple of months ago. You said that he was taking diuretics. You said that the reason for this was to minimize inflammation. because he had suffered an injury earlier. And as you know, diuretics are illegal.

So wouldn't that be an admission of taking a banned substance? No, because if you look at WADA's prohibited list, it talks about prohibited substances out of competition and in competition. But even somebody like WADA, the World Anti-Doping Agency, requires those people to be tested signed on as an athlete or be a member of the organization. So the same rule would apply here. You know, Van der Leigh should have been a licensee in front of the commission before the commission tried to submit him or have him do a drug test. The fact that he was taking a prohibited substance is of no moment now, even under a warrant.

WADA because he was not licensed. So are you saying that there was a chance Vanderlay would not fight on July 5th? No, I'm not saying that at all, but he was intending to fight though. And had they done a drug test, then we would have seen what the results were. I mean, you know, there's no evidence or information.

You know, let's just, the elephant in the room is this, is that people are going to assume that he was taking diuretics for some other purpose. When the evidence is really, he was taking diuretics for the sole purpose of trying to minimize the inflammation because he was moved from one card to another card because of his broken wrist. There was no evidence and no suggestion that he was doing it for some sort of performance enhancing purpose.

And that's kind of what we're looking at. It doesn't make it any better, but he was taking it out of competition, not licensed, trying to reduce the inflammation. But what exactly is out of competition? Because as you know, I mean, WADA, they oversee many different sports. And in the UFC, it's a little different because if you're on the roster, you're fair game if you're healthy. And of course, you have to sign a ballot agreement and you have to be licensed to fight in a state.

But, you know, this came up with the Chal Sondon situation as well, at a competition and, you know, in competition. Well, he was preparing to fight. I mean, that test was supposed to happen on May 24th. The fight was July 5th. I would assume he was training to fight on July 5th, even though he had yet to sign about agreement. I was at the press conference

when they announced the tickets being on sale. He was on the poster. So can you really say that that was out of competition? We can because he just said it yourself, Ariel. Unlike Chale and other people, he had not signed a bout agreement. He was not under contract, and he was not a licensee, unlike the other people that you just mentioned. So why was he on the poster?

Why was he at the press conference? Well, but that does not then equate it, magically equate it, into having the commission to have authority over somebody. It doesn't say that in the statute. You can go submit, have somebody submit to a test because they potentially are going to fight on a feature card. If the regulations said that, then he would be fair game. You just can't make it so because we're a rule, you know, an agency of rules. And so, you know, again, everybody's trying to shift the blame here, shift the purpose on the

Vandalay when it's the commission who is clearly exceeding a statutory jurisdiction. I would agree with you if it said, if they went back to the legislature and the legislature said, we're going to amend the rules, and we want everybody to be on notice, if you're going to be promoted for an event, then we consider you and you're consenting to jurisdiction. But it doesn't say that, Ariel. And so, therefore, if the commission is going to act, the commission, the only way the commission can act is exceed its jurisdiction and specifically exceed its jurisdiction with the statute that is trying to discipline vandalay under, which clearly says you need to be a licensee.

Do you have any idea why he didn't sign a bad agreement yet and why he didn't apply for a license yet when the fight was just, you know, a month and change away? No. I don't know what the circumstances were regarding. that. At that June 17th hearing where you first made your comments and they brought out, you know, the sample collector who ran through his timeline of events, how come you didn't bring up this simple fact? I mean, this is the basis of your argument that he wasn't a licensed fighter in Nevada. How come you didn't mention that then? Well, because it was never asked. In fact, Ariel,

it was dialed as an informational hearing. Van der Leigh wasn't even properly served with a subpoena. but Van der Leigh wanted to cooperate. And so do we. And we wanted to go to this informational hearing and explain exactly what happened, not believing that it was going to result in a disciplinary complaint because we knew that they didn't have jurisdiction. Had they had jurisdiction,

then they could have simply charge them with the disciplinary complaint at that point because subsection 5 says, that if you fail to submit to a test, then you're in violation of the statute. But they didn't do that because they didn't have jurisdiction, and they still don't have jurisdiction. Were you surprised that they did this, that they went to drug test someone randomly who was not licensed after the Vitor Belfort situation, which left, you know, the water's a little murky because they couldn't announce his drug test results because he wasn't licensed. He didn't have to take the test. You know the whole story there. Were you surprised that they did this a second time?

Well, I mean, you know, not that many people really challenge what the commission does. And this is such a clear-cut issue where because of what you just said, we believe that we have to take this position. And we have to, if the commission comes back and says, you know what, we disagree with you with respect to the jurisdiction, even though it says it on the face of the statute, then we're going to have to run it up the flagpole and go to an unbiased, judge, who will look and see if it says anywhere in the statute, you can go ahead and order somebody who's not licensed before you to submit to a drug test. And a judge is going to determine that there's nothing in there that gives the commission jurisdiction to do so, so then they're going to reverse what the commission does if, in fact, they don't grant my motion to dismiss.

So do you think that he will be sidelined for a while, or do you think that, you think that come September 23rd, this is, you know, this will be dismissed and Vannelly's civil will be free to fight? No, because I believe that because the commission is pursuing the hearing and because they haven't contacted me and try to resolve the issue, that they're not going to go forward to the commission hearing and say, you know what, we agree with you, Mr. Goodman. So I think it's a formality. I think it's a foregone conclusion that they're just going to discipline him under this statute, which says,

that you need to be a licensee. And then at that point, I'm going to have to file an appeal in front of the district court here in Las Vegas and have an unbiased judge, take a look at it and show that you have to be licensed and reversed at that point. But it's a shame it needs to go that far. This is a very simple issue. They should just learn from it and not go forward with the disciplinary complaint because they don't have jurisdiction. Do you think the commission is biased? I think they're biased in a sense that they believe that you can tell from their opposition.

I mean, it's one and the same. The AG's office represents the commission. They have a deputy AG on the commission. Chris Eccles talks with Bob Bennett and talks with Francisco all the time. So they're kind of one in the same. It's not, I mean, even though technically you can separate them in practice are one in the same. So the fact that they're not acquiescing to that very clear statutory provision and trying to come up with stuff in their opposition, which, to be honest with you, is nonsensical. It's not supported by anything.

Leads me to believe that they're just going to go forward with it, like a bull in a China shop, and then force vandalay and myself to appeal them to a real judge. So let's say what you just predicted happens, like how long does this? whole thing, like for someone that doesn't know and you have to go to the, you know, the district court and all that, how long does this thing play out? I mean, is his career now going to be on ice for a year or two years? How long do these things take to actually, you know, come to a resolution? Well, when I did it with Nick Diaz, you're supposed to file, or you're required to file what's called the petition of judicial review, which is the appeal I'm kind of talking about within 30 days of the final findings of fact in their order.

So that happens pretty quickly, and then a judge needs to set a briefing schedule. So like with Diaz, we were in front of a judge within, I think, two, three months. Oh, okay. So it can happen. It can happen very quickly. But in the interim, there's nothing preventing Van der Leigh from going into any other jurisdiction and getting a license. because at the end of the day, he's never been denied a license.

And even if you go forward with it, and let's say that we lose on the appeal, the only thing that's happened is he's been disciplined. He's never been denied a license. So if he can go into, you know, if he wants to fight in Toronto, this is all subject to the UFC allowing it to happen. But if he fights in any other jurisdiction and he submits a license, it's not like that commission is going to deny it because he hasn't been denied before. What they're probably going to do is have them take a test, and if he tests negative,

then there should be no obstacle in preventing that commission from issuing a license. But as you know, I mean, if there's one thing I've learned in this board, if someone has an issue in Nevada, the UFC probably not going to book them because that is their home base and they want to make sure that everything is okay in Nevada. That's usually been the way they've done things. By the way, you mentioned Nick. Also recently, Chale Sondon hired you when, it seemed like Nevada was going to stop him from competing at Meta Morris.

He did end up competing. Is that whole issue done with, or do you think that Nevada will try to punish him for doing that? Well, I hope they wouldn't retaliate against them. I mean, it was very clear. Francisco came out in a video interview and said that Nogi, which is exactly what he performed in at MetaMoros, Snoky Jiu-Jitsu was not part of the two-year suspension. And that would be reasonable because a commission only has jurisdiction to regulate boxing, kickboxing, and MMA.

So I thought it was an unusual position that Francisco was taking, and, you know, ultimately I'm hoping that Chale is going to be able to continue to compete in Jiu-Jitsu tournaments with no further, you know, reaction from the commission. Why are you the go-to guy as far as all these fighters are concerned, these big names? Why do they always go to Ross Goodman? Why does your name always pop up? Why are you that guy that they always come to? Well, Ariel, if you know me, I don't like to talk about myself.

You'd have to ask them. Is that really your answer? I just wanted to know, why do they all come to you? Is it just because you're that good? Or, I mean, is there another reason? Is it because of your history in MMA with WFA? Is there a reason for this? Well, I clearly have a.

history in MMA with the WFA. I've been in contact with other fighters. And so I just think it's somebody, you know, I'm happy to do it. I think I understand how the commission works as well as anybody does here. And I think I'm good at it, which is why fighters keep on coming back and, you know, asking me to represent them. Any plans on getting back into MMA as far as promoting is concerned. No, I enjoy watching the fights, and, you know, that's it. I enjoy helping the fighters out as much as I can, and I'll just practice long. All right.

Well, best of luck with... You know, I'll let Lorenzo and Dana promote the UFC, which are obviously very good at doing. Right, and you are very good at doing what you do. Best of luck with the Vanuilai Silva case. Hopefully it ends sooner rather than later. We can get some sort of resolution and move on, and I wish you... I wish you the best with your career, and maybe one of these days we can have you on to talk about that crazy time in your life with WFA and selling it and all that stuff. That was a wild time in the sport of mixed martial arts.

Well, I'd be happy to. Thank you for having me, and I think that the Vanillae issue will be resolved shortly. All right. Thank you, Ross. Appreciate it. Thank you. There is. Ross Goodman, the lawyer for one Van der Leigh Silva has represented several MMA fighters in the great state of Nevada.

And this is an interesting one. you know, on paper, it might seem like it's cut and dry, but, man, it seems like both sides are not going to relent. So we'll see how long this thing actually drags out. The next chapter is later on this month in Nevada. So we'll see. All right, that does it for today's interviews. What a interesting show that was. I felt like at times I was a shrink.

I was a prosecutor. I was, I don't know, is a mix of emotions today on the show. And Jim. I'm exhausted, but we have a lot more to do. And now we're going to go Inside the Vault, my friends. And this week's edition of Inside the Vault is a classic one from back in July of 2008. July 17, 2008, I'm in Los Angeles working for the late great MMA rated.com just a couple of days before the very first affliction event, affliction band.

One of the big events on that card, of course, was Andre. Arlowski versus Ben Rothwell. And the reason I thought about this particular interview this week was obviously because Arlowski is fighting Bigfoot Silva this Saturday. And Ben Rothwell just knocked out or stopped Alster Overeem on Friday. So they're very much in the news these days. So anyhow, I get to the, I think it was like a Marriott, some kind of hotel there in Los Angeles where they were holding this big press conference.

big to-do. Fador Emilianenko was there. Tim Sylvia, you know the card. And the event was happening at the Honda Center in Anaheim, California that Saturday. Coincidentally, the UFC ended up putting on a last-minute show, headlined by Anderson Silva versus James Irvin, which somewhat reminiscent of this past weekend, but it was a lot different. They were coming after him. They put together this show kind of quickly when there weren't, you know, as many UFC events back then, and they went head-to-head with the pay-per-view. Big issue with affliction. They were banned from the UFC, ended up dissolving. That's a whole other story for a different day. But leading up to that fight, Tim Sylvia, obviously fighting in the main event, as I mentioned, there was an issue brewing

between Arlovski and Sylvia. And of course, they had fought in the past in the UFC. Well, Arlowski's now ex-girlfriend, a model by the name of Patricia McCullough, had been in the news because she showed up to an event with Tim Sylvia. She had shown up to events in the past with Arlofsky, or maybe didn't show up to the event, but she was sitting next to him. And I had actually done some interviews with her. Back in the day, I used to write to people on MySpace.

That's how I would get my interviews for jerrypark.com, the interview website that I had launched my first undertaking, as far as MMA journalism is concerned. And I did some interviews, and we talked about this a little bit, and I thought it was somewhat interesting, considering their path and their past, and of course that they had these two fights scheduled on the same fight card, so they were linked once again. And I asked And Jarolowski about this.

I asked him about this. It was a little soap opera. I'm not going to lie. I asked him what he thought about this, about the rumors that Tim Sylvia was in a relationship with his now ex-girlfriend. And that resulted in a phrase, a response that probably got me more attention as far as a journalist is concerned than anything I had done up into that point. I'd only been doing this for less than a year. Start in October of 2007, this is July 2008. But his response was picked up by all the blogs, all the forums, all that stuff. And even resulted in T-shirts being made, signs at events. and many other wild stuff.

So first, let's hear from Andrei Arlowski back in July of 2008, July 17, 2008, to be exact. And then I'll tell you about the aftermath. Here it is, me, Andrea Arlowski, six years ago. Arielmarated.com being joined by Andre the Pitbull Arlowski, Andre, Saturday night, you against Big Ben Rothwell. How are you feeling just a couple of days out? I'm very excited. I'm ready for the Friday. How has life after the UFC been treating you so far?

You know what I'm not even thinking about because I was busy with my training and I can tell you after July 19th. Do you feel different? I mean, you know, in the last year you fought against Jake O'Brien. They put you on the ground. You know, put here one of the top dogs, one of the big draws on the card. Do you feel loved more now? Be honest, it's not really matter for me. I'm on a paper view or not.

But yeah, of course, I'm very excited. and I fought for you in the air almost eight years. It was a tough decision for me, but now I'm with affliction and I'm going on and I'm cool. Big Ben Rothwell is a guy who, you know, blew through the heavyweight division in the IFL. Now he's coming over and fighting a top 10, you know,

fighters such as yourself. Do you think that maybe his record was a little padded there because of some of the competition he faced in the IFL? We will have an answer on July 19th, but I can tell you he's a tough guy, he's strong, he's, he's, he's good, He's a good striker and I trained for this fight really hard and we found out who's better in July 19s. You talk about that training, you've enlisted the help of Freddie Roach, the world-famous boxing trainer.

I give you much props for that because I think it's a long time coming that an M.M.A. fighter goes into the boxing world and gets some help with striking. How has it been working with Freddie thus far? Uh-oh. It was very excited. I spent three weeks in LA and he, he, he helps me a lot, but I'm still trying with my boxing coaching. in Chicago, Mike Garcia, and I have great team, great trainers. So I'm happy. He'll be in your corner right on Saturday.

He will. And we've heard some rumors that you're going to be going into the world of boxing, but then we heard that it's not for sure yet. September 13th. Are you, in fact, going to be trying your hand at the sport of boxing? No, guys. First thing, first of all, I have to fight on July 19th, and we'll find out after. But it's something you're thinking about.

We'll see. Okay, I got to ask you this final question, though, because there was a lot of talk online. I'm sure you know about it. Tim Sylvia and your former. former ex-girlfriend. What was up with all that stuff? You know what I'm not interested and it's his business and if he did something with him, I just want to ask you, a team house taste my PPP, okay?

All right. I'll talk about Tim Silver. It was a little soap opera, right? I don't care. All right. Well, strong words from Andreilovsky. Clearly your mind is focused on Saturday night. Absolutely.

Best of luck. My fight and then July 19th again, Man Russell. Well, we may be seeing the return of the Pernolovsky. seeing the return of the pit bull on Saturday. Best of luck to you and continue success. Thank you. So there you have it. The infamous phrase.

Now, what was so interesting about all of that, in fact, he tried to get me kicked out of the press conference. Here I am, wide-eyed, a newbie. Tried to get me kicked out of the press conference for asking this question. And thankfully, the affliction PR people did not oblige. And they said, no, he's not getting kicked out. Would you be nuts? But they were very mad.

at me. They were very mad that I asked this question. In fact, I saw them around the hotel because I was staying at the same hotel as the fighters, and I was always getting the stink eye. But lo and behold, things started to get a little interesting afterwards. Why? Well, I noticed one day that on Andre Arlowski's website, he was selling a t-shirt with the phrase, with his face on it, he was going to events, throwing them out to the crowd. They were actually profiting from all this. So they went from being pissed at me to actually liking it, which I was fine with, made me happy. Interestingly enough, a couple days later, I was still in Orange County, a couple days later, before the event. Actually, maybe it wasn't even a couple days later.

Maybe it was a day later, something like that. It was before the fight still. The girl in question, Patricia McCullough, was still there. And this interview came out and it was big news. So I went to a gym to meet her to get the follow-up interview, and she happened to be there with a guy. who was her, I guess he was her fiance at the time. All of a sudden, she had a fiance. And I did an interview with both of them, and she was sitting on his lap, but was at this gym. He was a huge guy, gigantic, like three times my size and many, many muscles. And we did this interview. And one of the

first questions I asked was, what's your response to this, to this line? And he did not like that very much. In fact, he picked her up. He said, I'm done with this. I don't know. I don't I don't even know why he was in the interview, to be honest, but anyhow. And got very upset and kicked me out of the gym, started yelling at me, kick me out of the gym. I went outside, and I was like, oh, my God, what the heck just happened? This guy's three times my size. He's very intimidating. Went outside, started yelling at me some more, yada, yada, yada.

They ended up not being engaged anymore. I think she has a very happy life now, and she has a kid, and she's married to an MLS player. But that was pretty intense. You got very mad at me. And it all culminated at UFC 91. If you watch that fight, Brock Lester versus Randy Couture, the main event, when Brock Lester comes out of the tunnel in Las Vegas, there is someone holding a sign above his head with the words,

House Tastes My Peepee. It's a true story. I've talked to Andrei Lovsky about this. We've had a laugh. We've talked about it and reminisced. It was a fun time in our lives. And, yeah, that was one of the interviews that I think helped put me on the map. How about that?

not exactly, you know, something to be proud of talking about things of that nature. And you can see I got a little flustered afterwards because I wasn't expecting him to say that, but I'll never forget it. House Tastes My Peepee. In fact, Sam Kaplan was one of the first to actually give that video interview some play on his website, five ounces of pain. And it was a pretty wild time. The Brock Lesnar thing kind of blew my mind when it happened actually with someone

was holding the sign at a UFC title fight. And then we kind of ran with it for a little bit on the site. Like we did House Tastes My Predictions and things like that. And then I guess it kind of ran its course. If you recall, And Jarolofsky won that fight. He defeated Ben Rothwell. In fact, it was in the midst of a very impressive run for And Jarolofsky. Because that win was his one, two, three, fourth in a row.

He won via knockout. ended up finishing Roy Nelson in his next fight, and then he would go on to fight Fyodor Emilianenko, got knocked out January of 2009, then he was stuck in a bit of a skid. He had lost then four in a row, and since then he's rebounded a little bit. His only loss has been to Anthony Johnson in the span of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 fights. Of course, many people, including himself, think that, you know, He lost to Brendan Chob and his return to the UFC at UFC 174. And wouldn't you know it back in August of 2012, he fought Tim Sylvia at one FC.

It ended up in a no contest because there was a kick landed to a grounded opponent. But prior to that fight, I remember when he walked into the workout room, he yelled out, House Tastes My Peepee. So it still lives on until this day. That does it for Inside the Vault. Now let us take some questions and comments. I love that interview. Do you recall it?

I do. It's the House Tastes My PPP interview. What do you mean? What do you mean? That is the House Tastes My PPP interview. Yes. I said, that's what it is. How could I forget it?

Oh, I thought you said it mirrors. No. Oh, okay. It is. Okay. The House Tastes My PPP. Well, it's good to hear from you. What's up?

It was a very busy weekend in the world of a maid. Does anyone have any questions? about it. No. Nothing. That's it. We could go home. Done. Fantastic. Music will? Okay, first question. What are your thoughts on the Bonner Tito Scuffle on Saturday? This is in quote scuffle. In my opinion, it only further tarnishes the reputation of Bellator and the new Scott Coker regime. I don't know about that. I mean, look, I think a lot of people take MMA way too seriously in the sense that, look, if someone gets hurt, if someone gets injured cutting weight or seriously injured in a fight, things of that nature. I mean, this is serious stuff. Let's not kid ourselves. These guys are going into a cage, first cutting

a crap load of weight, then adding on that weight, which is, in some cases, very unhealthy. And then going into a cage and punching each other, four-ounce gloves, it's all very serious. However, I think people take the other stuff, the promotion stuff, a little too serious. They take everything around it a little too serious. Like, relax. MMA is not going down the tubes. MMA is not being flushed down. M.M.A. is not dying. Beltaur's not dying. This was just a PR stunt that, let's be honest, was hokey.

The whole thing was hokey. You know, Stefan says that it was all for Tito, I guess, but I mean, if it was all for Tito, then text him this stuff. I mean, this is for everyone. This is to try to get people to buy the fight. The fact that McCulley wasn't identified, the fact that he's not really that big of a name

and he's not recognizable to the casual fan. It just, it all fell flat. And also the fact that Bellator has done this before with Moen Rampage. We've seen the scuffles. We've seen Scott Coker be a part of some scuffles, right? I mean, Strike 4 is not him in particular, but his organizations. People are a little tired of it. You know, this doesn't happen every day in Bellator. It doesn't happen every day in MMA, but it all feels a little too hokey for them. So to me, my, my, take on it is, all right, you know, they're attempting to create a name for themselves. It would have been fine without the pushing and shoving. I do actually believe that they really don't like each

other, but I think they're putting on the, you know, I don't like you and I'm going to promote this hat. And that doesn't feel authentic to people. People like when it's just two people who hate each other. Look, that's why the Jones DC leaked video was so great, because no one was watching. And wow, they actually hate each other. And they were going back and forth. and it was great. This was like, all right, okay, fine, you hate each other? We could believe that. But the mask, well, the two masks and the name calling and the low blows, it feels a little too contrived. It's too manufactured. So that was my take on it. But come on, with all the stuff that happened on Friday, the funny thing is, is that everyone complains about it, but yet they're all

talking about it. Jacare won. Rothwell with a great win. Mitreone with a great win. Lozon Keesa with a great fight. Pitpo wins the title. No one's talking about that. No one's commenting on that. So who's the problem here? Well, the large majority of our questions and comments were about that. Right. My question is, what's the harm? Is anybody who is planning to tune into this fight really going, I can't believe they did this, I'm not tuning in? I don't think that there's really any risk of losing people who were already intending to watch it. So why not? Go for it. Take a shot. I mean, Now, obviously, every week you don't want to have some kind of planned kind of stunt. Right.

But why not take the shot? It could end up being great. And this one some people enjoyed. Some people didn't. But I don't think there's any adverse effect, to be honest. Yeah, I think it could turn off some people. I'm more interested in the fact that they're going head to head with UFC 181. That to me is, oh, no, sorry, 180.

that to me is the most interesting part of this whole thing. And they're not going to go head to head again with that fight, but with the prelims and all of that. Who's it turning off, to be honest? I don't know. If you're watching Bellator already, it's not like, yeah, it's not like you're going to tune out just because of that. When I saw, at least in my opinion,

when I was reading the play-by-play, because I was in Connecticut, I was at Foxwoods for UFC, so I didn't watch it, I was reading the play-up play-up, it's like, wow, this sounds like the worst thing, because the way people were describing it was like, this is an abomination. This is the end of Bellator as we know it.

And then I saw it and I was like, well, this is just kind of lame. But it's not, it didn't bother me. I wasn't offended by it. It was just like, they didn't have to do this. I'd rather see a great video package about the,

you know, like that rant that Bonner went on. Which would get more attention. Right. This, 100% this. So then, this is the right call, right? But no, no, I'm not saying, look,

I had no problem. Again, I was not offended. I didn't feel like going on a rant. I didn't feel like doing this whole investigative piece. I just like chuckled. I was like, really. And also Bonner's delivery was kind of funny. Like, I found it more comical than anything.

And the best thing about it was Jimmy Smith holding onto the mic. And then at the end, the only thing he said was, but I still got the mic. I mean, it just felt like, it was just like, you know, it was hard to take serious. And you would hate, you hate to see that overshadow, you know, the Scott Coker error or anything involved in MMA as far as the real fights are concerned and the real rivalries and all that stuff. But look, look at the way people respond. Yeah. So clearly. attention. Yeah. Our next question. We'll see if the ratings, you know, equal out, right? You'll see

if the ratings, if this results in a big rating, if everyone's paying attention or is it just like internet stuff? Yep. Next question. Fador versus Cotor, is it possible? There have been rumors of Fador versus Cotor and Bellator. I never listened to Fador rumors. However, this is different. Unlike Dana, Coker is willing to co-promote and Randy almost left the UFC to pursue this fight. It all comes down to Fador, if Fader would be willing to step back in the cage. Do you think this fight is a possibility and thoughts on the matchup? No. I saw when the question was asked, I saw the scrum with Scott Coker.

No. Randy Couture is doing Dancing with the Stars. He's not fighting. He may even be 50 years old already. And I don't think Fader is fighting. And if Scott Coker has learned anything from his past, I would hope he would learn that to break the bank, with Fador doesn't necessarily result in riches, right? I mean, they broke the bank to have Fador come to strike force.

But do you think the situation would be the same? I don't imagine that Fader has the same. Yeah, well, not cheap, obviously. What's in it for him? You know, like, he doesn't. I'd be interested in this fight. This is one of those classic. Oh, sure, sure, yeah.

I mean, come on, Fader. Look, all these fights. I would be interested in Brock returning or, you know, like, these names. Yeah, but Brock Star is very bright right now. No, I'm just saying, like, these names who are maybe past their prime or left on a sour note, I mean, there's still big names, so you'll still watch. You're still interested in them. There's very few of those in MMA.

Couture or Fader, I mean, you could say that those are, if you have a Mount Rushmore, you can make the case for those two guys being one of the four faces, right? So you'd have to watch. If Hoist Gracie came back tomorrow, I would watch it because he's Hoist Gracie. So that's what they have to gain. But it doesn't, first of all, we're not. everyone, A, B, they shouldn't be going out there and breaking the bank on, you know, these signings that are going to be short-term signings. It's one thing to break the bank on, you know,

John Jones, if he's a free agent. It's another thing to do so, a guy who's 50 years old, another guy who hasn't fought for several years and is coming off, you know, some bad losses. But all that, I saw the clip, and this is, this happens all the time. Someone asks a question, someone gives like a ho-hum response, and then people write articles about it. Listen to what he said. he said, you know, I know, someone just brought it out of nowhere. They pulled it out of their ass. And he's like, well, I think Couture's, you know, retired and Fador were talking to M1 about some stuff. I mean, it was not very promising. So I don't even think it's worth discussing. I agree with that. I don't think that this should be the long-term strategy. But I also don't think that it would be breaking the bank. I don't think that they can demand that kind of money that would make it, quote-unquote, breaking the bank. have you seen what they've asked for in the past or what they turned down in the past? I mean, it's a different scenario. But if you're going to come out of retirement, you're probably going to do so for a lot of money.

And you probably don't have a lower self-worth, right? Yeah, but that's just a real. Of course, fighters who are in a 20-fight losing streak aren't going to have a lower self-worth. But the people who are negotiating the contract on his behalf realize that his star is slightly less dim. Of course. They're not very reasonable people. They turned down. He was going to be able to walk into the cage with an M1 global logo and all this of

like unprecedented stuff. He was the guy at the time. Yeah. It's not the same. We're not living in that time. You really think Randy Gator is going to fight? That's the bigger one. I can see Fador coming back before Randy.

That's the least surprising part. I bet you could get Randy in the cage pretty easily. Really? He's just one of those guys. Is he, though? Just because he's doing dancing with the stars and doing movies doesn't mean... He's 51.

So? He's almost as old as tomato. I think you could get him to do it. I don't know. I really don't. I don't think he's happening. We're wasting too much time on this. Our next question, how do you feel?

What are your thoughts on the smaller size octagon? Do you believe it encourages more action? And do you think it should be used more often? I do. And I do. Listen to Matt Mitreone at the Post-Fipe Press conference. He actually doesn't like it because he says it changes the way he fights, and it's actually one of the first questions he asks when he accepts a fight.

Oh, is this going to be a smaller or bigger cage? But I think the proof is in the pudding. I mean, Fightnomics. Reed Coon. He's on Twitter. Fightnomics is his handle. He's posted some fascinating stuff on his website and on Twitter. The statistics, smaller cage versus larger cage.

And more often than not, these smaller cage events result in more finishers. more exciting fights? Yes. I'm not arguing with the numbers. Oh. But are more finishes necessarily what... Well, that's what I said. More exciting fights.

Well, look, here's the thing. Here's the thing. We can't ignore the fact that the first half of the card, there were nine fights on the card because one fell off. So the first half of the card, there were all decisions, but they were smaller weight classes. Then, once you got into Iaquinta, 155, Lozon 155

Lewis Mitreone heavyweight Rothwell Overeum heavyweight and then the main event was 185 they were all finishes so I don't know

what that means this could all very well be a coincidence but I got excited when I found out that the smaller cage was going to be used for two heavyweight fights

which is very rare because it has been mostly used for WEC in those smaller shows like at the palms or whatever and there aren't that many heavyweight fights and there were two back to back with some heavy hitters I got excited

It's certainly not a coincidence. That much is very clear. But I don't necessarily want to see Leodomachita in a smaller cage. I want to see him with room to operate and do what he does and circle. And there are a lot of fighters like that. I don't necessarily feel that the smaller cage and more finishes, which is at this point the statistics are definitely in on that. It does lead to more finishes.

But I'm not sure that that's necessarily what I want to see out of every fight. I don't want to see the best fights. I want to see them as exciting as possible. And also the translation of stats becomes murky. This guy is on an X-fight win streak with all these finishes. Yeah, but maybe four of those are in a smaller cage, and the other guys haven't been in a smaller cage. Do you want to see it?

Should it be used more often? Yes. Right? My answer is, I don't care. I think that it should be uniform. To be honest, I think that there should be a uniform size, whether it's smaller or bigger. I think that it should be uniform for every fight.

Sometimes it's tougher because they go in smaller venues. So they make the smaller one the one. Use a smaller cage in the other venues. But let's say you're in a big venue. Let's say you're at the Rogers Center and you have a smaller cage. I mean, it's not that big of a difference. That shouldn't dictate the... You know, in boxing, there are different sizes as well.

Yeah, but boxing's different because the ring cuts off your movement anyway. Certainly size will matter, but in the UFC, a big part of it, is being able to circle away from your opponent up against the cage. And it makes guys who are tougher to corral and tougher to catch more effective. Now, when you decrease the size of the cage, their movements are stifled a bit. And I'm not sure that that's necessarily good. But I'd much rather have it be uniform, even if it's the smaller cage, than it be two different size cages.

I don't mind it because sometimes you have to deal with the elements. look at baseball. All ballparks aren't the same size, not the same dimensions. You got to deal with it. Fenway Park, Green Monster, low-fair. I mean, I guess you're right. I mean, a home run in one park is worth the same as a home run in another park. That might be the first time you said, I guess you're right. You're correct. You couldn't definitively say it. You had to say, I guess. You can just say, you know what, you're right. No, that was, that was a valid point. I was about to make the analogy before and say all baseballs are the same size and all batch of the same size, but it's a much more apt to talk about the stadiums, which are different sizes.

So, yeah, it's a good, it's a good point, but my preference is for a uniform size. Now, of course, you could have said all basketball courts, all football fields, they're the same size, but you blew it. All right, let's move along. Okay, I disagree with you now. Our next question, what is next for the demolition man? That's Alistair Overeem. The Reams run in the UFC has been painfully disappointing, given the lofty expectations

that surrounded his entry into the U.S. What matchup makes sense for him next? Should he get his walking papers? Should he team up with Vitor to incorporate pure TNT-fueled demolition back into his fighting style? It's a bummer because had he won, a fight against JDS would have been great. I mean, they've been talking about each other.

It would have made all the sense in the world. Now, you know, I tell you what's another fight that makes sense, but it's not going to happen is Travis Brown. What am I talking about Travis Brown? He fought him already. I was just thinking a guy who comes down with a loss. look I think Luke nailed it on this one Brendan Schaubb fight right

coming off a loss that's a good fight I like that it really makes a lot of sense but now aren't it I guess Shob is not exclusively Jackson's but no no he just fought Arlovsky oh you're right

but but the bigger question is should he still be in the UFC and I do think he should still be in the UFC he's still a big name and in this day and age this is what's going to happen if they release him and he signs with Bellator, which you know he would, who's he going to fight? He'll be knocking guys out left and right.

And all of a sudden, everyone's going to say he's the greatest in the world, this and that, you don't want that to happen. So you keep him around, and I still think that there are fights for him in the heavyweight division. They need Alistair Overeign. Look, he lost Ben Rothwell. He's no schlub. I mean, he's had his ups and downs, but he's a former IFL heavyweight champion. He's had some big wins. It's a kind of fight. Like, he didn't look horrible. He looked horrible. He looked good early on. He got caught. He lost. I'm not saying it was a great night for us to over him. That was bad. That was disastrous. But all that being said, you want to see how he does, you know, another camp, getting more comfortable

at Jackson's. And there are still some fights. Brendan Schaub's coming off a loss. He doesn't have an opponent. I actually spoke to him before this weekend's fights. And I said, you know, who are they talking about? He said, all I can say is we're looking closely at the fights this weekend. So clearly there was something there. Obviously, it's not Mitrione. Derek Lewis, maybe, I can assure you, Brendan Chob wants the Alistair Overeign fight. Now it's a question of whether or not they're going to keep him around.

Dana-Oy was very non-committal, surprisingly non-committal in the post-fight interview when I was asking about him. So we'll see, my guess is they keep them around. Our next question. Play matchmaker. What's next, in your opinions, for the four heavyweights on last Friday's card?

Rothwell, Mitriome, overing we just talked about, and Lewis. By the way, someone just wrote to me, someone just asked me Big Nog versus Alistair, no way. MMA mad. I don't want to see that. Right? Yeah, I would be okay with not seeing Big Nog fight again.

Yeah. Okay. Matchmaker. Rothwell. Big win. Yes, big win. But coming off, suspension. Well, there's a couple that come.

mind. You know, it would be kind of fun. Roy Nelson. They had a nice little rivalry. Of course, he's fighting in two weeks, but the timing kind of works out. If he wins against Mark Hunt, that would be fun. Mark Hunt would be fun. The other one that comes to mind, even though he's coming off a loss, is Travis Brown. Mitrione. You know, Mitrione versus Overeem would be interesting because of their history with the Blacksilians. I don't know if they would do it, though. why not Mitroen's not even in the top 15 I'm not

You know Where's Overeign? Overeign right now is 7 Should he be Yeah I think so I don't think anybody would have a problem With Mitrione Overeem

I don't think Shob is necessarily So much higher He did beat Mitriome But that's By the way Let's not play the MMA math game Right Overeem right now

ranked above Hunt And Nelson I don't know if these are the newest I said should he be, you said yeah. Well, I didn't realize those guys were blown. So Mitrione, Mitrione's an interesting one. I think that's the one to make. Really?

Out of all the options. That's a great fight. Not Shab. I wouldn't be mad at either of those. I think Shab should be higher than Mitrione, certainly because of that win over him. And I think if he's offered it, he should be the one to take the overreem fight. but I think Mitrione versus Overim is a great fight as well

Not too soon for Mitrione? No, come on I don't know Mitrione's been up there before He's fought against Roy Nelson I mean You know that was Did he fight against Roy Nelson?

Yeah, he got knocked out in the first round Oh yeah It wasn't a great showing But you know he's been That was kind of cobbled together though Yeah he's been in some big fights I don't think And I think he would want it for sure

I think Matt Mitrione is one of the more talented guys who at certain times has just not looked great but I think in terms of pure talent and his abilities I think he's super super talented and I think a fight with Overeem could definitely bring something good out of him yeah no I mean I would like to see it I just don't know if you know they shop over him is a great fight too you know it'll be fun um soa Palleli against Derek Lewis, speaking of the last time. Ooh, I like that. That one didn't even cross my mind.

Yeah. All right. In a small cage. In a small cage. Yes, for sure. This next question, very broad. Does Tiago Silva deserve to be back in the UFC? Oh my.

If I were in charge, I wouldn't have brought him back right now. I would not have. You know, I just think there's a lot there. And again, he was not acquitted. Charges were dropped, you know. So you don't. want to call him guilty because, look, he was not charged. A court of law, jury of his peers did not charge him, right, with anything. But all that being said, I do still feel a little

uneasy about it being dropped as opposed to it going through the whole due process, court of law, blah, blah, blah. I just, it just, it feels too fresh. In this day and age, I just don't know if it's worth, you know, the scrutiny and the criticism that the U.S. who will receive. Look, I commend the U.S. UFC for saying, hey, this guy deserves to make a living. He was not charged. The charges were dropped, et cetera, et cetera. We fired him last. And, you know, all that has happened since then. He hasn't fought anywhere else. So I commend them for having an open mind. But considering what was, you know, being thrown out there, what he was being accused of, considering all of that and his past,

as far as PEDs are concerned, there's a lot of baggage there. And I just, I just don't think I would have gone that route. Our next question asks about that as well, but not in the same sense. What makes sense now for Tiago Silva? So now that he is back in the UFC, with Tiago Silva returning, what makes sense for him now? He's coming up with, his last two wins were over Fézhael and Hamel. He needs to climb the ladder again and fight a guy like OSP, or do you think he's already there to fight big fights like Rumble, Bader, and Machita. I don't think he's there. And again, he's out for quite some time, knee surgery. So if he just had that recently, it's going to be a while. So let's see. Let's see when he comes back,

who's around. But I wouldn't put him in that upper echelon. Also makes this all very interesting, right? I mean, he's going to be up for a while. Why were they so quick to resign him? And that's thought to say, like, everyone has, you know, the right to be innocent until proven guilty, but I just think it would have been nice to, you know, have him go out, fight a couple of shows, like most people. This stuff happens in sports. You get accused. Things happen.

Well, what I find most interesting is that they were in a rush to cut him. They were in a rush to cut him and sign him. Right. Before the jury, you know. That was the right move, in my opinion. Maybe that was the right move. but it would seem odd that they'd be so quick to cut him without the facts of the case being presented

and then sign him because the facts of the case didn't have an opportunity to be presented. It's very strange that the reason they cut him so quickly is also the reason they brought him back so quickly. Right. I mean, this stuff is very common in sports because you don't want people to say, well, UFC fighter, you know, we want to make it very clear that we're releasing this guy,

we're cutting ties, all that stuff. So this is what happens all. the time. But then let that lie for a while. Don't sign him back so quickly. It's just very strange. Absolutely. It was strange. There's a guy on Twitter saying, you know, like, oh, are you going to interview War Machine next?

Well, there's a big difference between War Machine and Tiago Silva. It's not the same at all. Well, first of all, there's evidence of what War Machine did to his girlfriend. I mean, there's pictures. And yes, there's her account. And I'm sure there's both sides of the story. but, or you'd like to at least, I don't know, you know what I mean.

There's usually three sides to his story, but there's actual evidence of physical harm, disgusting harm that he inflicted on her. In the Tiago Silva case, there isn't that, and that's a problem. So that's why someone's saying, like, I mean, I think, I don't think by having him on, I'm telling you right now, I don't agree with the decision,

but I was still curious to talk to him and hear what he had to say, and I had no idea, by the way, which was kind of a bummer, or a big bummer, that he was going to go with the whole, I don't want to talk about my past. What did you think I was going to talk to you about? If you want to talk about your past, you don't have a fight, you got injured. Well, what's the point of being here? No one told me that beforehand. So that's, you know, that's a bummer. But all that to say in response to this question, I think he still needs to climb the ladder. And I mean, he's been off for a while. It still needs to be seen a little bit. Yeah.

When he's ready, things like that. As you said multiple times in the last couple of weeks, timing is very important with the matchmaking. Yeah. Okay. Now we're moving on to Twitter. Our first question. Thoughts on Olivera not getting paid. Thinking back to last week's discussion, getting ill is out of his control, isn't it?

Well, you know, I don't know. This is a tough one. This really is a tough one. again off the bat kudos they paid lenz show and win plus they gave him the 20% which is pretty amazing for lence without having to fight you know here's the thing people are equating it to like stephen struv right stephen struv got his show money even though he pulled out of the fight against matrione just minutes before the fight well here's the difference in my opinion very similar right on on the surface very similar The difference in my opinion is this.

Stephen's True have made weight. He made it official. But at the 11th hour, he got sick. He couldn't fight. And this has happened before. Hennon Burrell, Charles Wolvera, did not make weight. They didn't even show. As far as the definition of show, you have to actually show up to fight.

They didn't even do that. Now, Lentz agreed to take the fight, said he'll take it. No problem. He'll get 20%. He didn't have to. have to say that. At that point, he could have said no, but he did. More power to him. But that's the difference. Same thing with Henry Sehudo. You know what I mean? I do. So that's the big difference. Well, the other differences, as I said last week, Stefan Struve had a history of

health issues and this was out of his control, whereas I feel the dangers of a weight cut and, you know, maybe the infection or what was, it wasn't an infection, it was a virus. What was the circumstance with Olivera? Yeah, that's it. That prevented him from cutting weight. That's correct? Well, that's what he says. Okay, whatever the case may be, if there's a virus that's preventing you from cutting weight,

then it's time to not cut weight. Or in the opposite case, if the cutting weight in the converse, if the cutting weight caused you to get the virus, then it's time to not be cutting weight. Stefan Strove made weight, was ready to fight, was ready to walk out, and something unfortunate happened. The UFC is not oblivious to this and helped him out by paying his show money. If Olivera had made weight the day before and then could not walk out to the cage because he contracted a virus, I imagine that the UFC would have paid him his show money.

Now, I'm not 100% certain, but I think that in cases like this, they've typically been very good about that. It's not the same case. We just have to get over this idea that the UFC is always going to pay these guys their show money for doing something that seems risky. And Olavera cutting weight, having a virus and still trying to cut weight, he should have pulled out of the fight beforehand then. He should have said, I can't fight and pulled out.

He tried to make weight. He couldn't. That's the end of the story. And by the way, all cases aren't created equal. It's not the same. Like, someone's bringing up to me now, Tim Means. Remember Tim Means slipped, hit his head prior to his fight against Abel Trujillo, UFC on Fox, I believe it was five in Seattle. Couldn't go to the way-ins, couldn't weigh-ins, couldn't weigh in, was pulled from the fight. I just think that's a little different. Was he paid show money?

He was paid. So, but it's different, in my opinion, because he got injured. All signs, at least what we were told, pointed to him making. weight, no problem. This is what we're told. I just don't think you could have a blanket rule. Well, I don't necessarily agree with that. How can you have a blanket rule? No, no. I don't think you should have a blanket rule. I'm saying I think Tim Means probably should not have been paid to show money because that's a very, that's a very similar case to Henan Burrow where he couldn't make weight. He hurt himself in the process of making weight and couldn't show up. I don't necessarily think that he should have been paid his show money. Now, I don't... By the way, here's the thing. Here's

the thing about Henan Burrow, by the way. That's what Novo Niao has said. You notice the UFC does not confirm that. You know what I mean? This is their story. I think there's a, if you really smacked his head to that, I don't know if they'd put him on live TV. You get what I'm trying to say?

I don't know if everyone involved believes that that's why he didn't fight. Well, whatever the case is, I think that people should not be so upset about the fighters not getting their show money. Certainly, we want the fighters in the sport to make a look. living, but they have to do their job. If you don't do your job, are you going to get paid? Whoever, you know, whatever schlub out there is doing a nine to five that's not fighting, if you mess up at your job, you're not getting paid.

It's as simple as that. And half the job is making weight the day before. And again, I just don't, like, there's nothing that says they have to give Nick Lentz's win money. There's nothing that says they have to give them 20% of a purse that doesn't exist. But if I show up to fight and, you know, you know, you know, you know, it's a Thursday, and I go to the gym, you know, and I slip because someone pours some water on the ground, and I break my ankle, God forbid, and I'm in the UFC, you know, I'm a guy in the UFC.

And I think it's the right thing for the UFC to pay me to show my, I mean, they don't have to, but that's a crummy situation. And that's what I think the Timene's situation was. That's what I don't think happened here. That's what I don't think happened with Borough. You get what I'm trying to say? I mean, I'm okay with them looking. at every situation and saying, all right, what do we feel is the best thing to do here? What's the most fair thing to do? And look, they paid Lentz and then some, and they decided to look, this guy didn't even make weight, and maybe he should have told us earlier.

Look, if he had a viral infection, did he tell them earlier? There's got to be reasons that they're not, you know, being 100% open about. We're not going to pay him. To put a bow on this, big weight cuts should not be, should just not be. be done. It should, people should be fighting at weight, weights closer to their natural weight. And then this will eliminate all these problems. Nobody will have to worry. You're inherently taking a risk when you cut that much weight that you're not going to make it. If a virus, you know, whatever the circumstances may be, if this virus stopped you from making weight,

then you shouldn't be cutting that much weight. Because if one thing or whatever the circumstances are, stop you from doing your job properly, then you should be. be fighting at a different weight class. And the weight should not be... I just don't understand that people are like, you see, they're such scumbags. I feel the opposite. What do you mean?

What do he do to deserve being paid? He flew out there. He didn't make weight. Paying Nick Lentz is the evidence that they're not scumbags. And people will jump on any opportunity to hate on them, but this is not one. Paying fighters who do their job

is not one of the problems with the USC. It's not cool. cool to agree with them. But... Eff it. Our next question. I find doctor stoppage is confusing. Kiyasa versus Lozon fight got stopped, but Uriah Hall still fought with a broken toe. Thoughts. Again, all situations, all commissions not created equally.

Dana White said afterwards he thought that if we were in Nevada on that night, that they would have let it go. You know, every doctor, every person, that's what I was trying to talk about last week. I mean, this sport is so subjective on so many levels, from the stuff we were just talking about, to this stuff, to referee stoppages. I mean, there's so much to even the way they weigh the guys in. I mean, there's just so much that's subjective in this sport. And this is another one of those cases. I mean, on paper, that looked like a pretty, on the surface. I mean, you look at that thing, that was pretty gross.

But was it enough to stop the fight? I don't know. I'm not a doctor. I wasn't in there. So it was unfortunate. The fight was great. they still won fight of the night but I'd love to see it again

I was enjoying every second of that fight really enjoyed it but who am I to disagree with the doctor? You know, by the way, I'm not so sure I agree with them allowing the Uriahaw fight to continue, right? You've come around. What did I say? At the time you said you loved it

it was the greatest thing ever, I said did I? That fight should have been stopped. I don't remember. They should not have let him fight with a broken toe. Yeah. That should have been under the dog. I said that 100%.

I had to plead with you for the sake of health that you agree that that fight should have been stopped. But in any case, I think that fight should have been stopped. I think the Kiesa-Losan fight should have been stopped. It's unfortunate, but that's just what happened. But how do we know? We don't know what the hell we're talking about.

We don't know like where our cut is and how bad is. Well, the cut was right over his eye. The idea is that he can't continue fighting properly. And also there's long-term health risk. and that cut was very bad. The doctor determined so. The doctor determined that it was bad. I have no problem with the stoppage.

It's unfortunate for Kiyasa because he said, and it was pretty clear, that he still had fight left in him. But if fights can be stopped on a cut, which they can, then there's no problem with that stoppage. Do you agree that fight should have been stopped? Yeah, I had no problem with it. I was an outrage. I didn't think it was a bad call.

I just, from my vantage point, who am I to say, like, you know, what's a bad cut? What's a good cut? You know, I just know it's a cut, and it looked like it was bad, but the doctor is the one actually looking at this stuff. And so that's what I'm saying, like, we can't say, like, oh, but this fight was stopped and this fight wasn't stopped. I just don't think that there, you can do that. You can't make that comparison. Our next question with the UFC record 13 bonuses. This is like of the night performance, blah, blah, blah.

And being one of the most exciting fighters is Joe Lozahn, a few. future UFC Hall of Famer. I don't know. I mean, never fought... What? You think he is? 100%. What?

100%. 100%. Never fought for a belt. It doesn't matter. Just because he won... It's the UFC Hall of Fame. It's not the MMA Hall of Fame. Yes, I get it.

Just because he wants subjective bonuses? My thing is not based on the 13 bonuses. That's certainly a feather in his cap. So what's a base on? That he's fought so long and so. well for the UFC and fought I believe that he's he's ever even been in like a number one contender fight with all due respect love Joe Lozahn I hate to even say anything negative about him especially now in his life but I mean I think that the in my case the the definition of a

Hall of Famer has been changed has been altered when the tough cast went in and when you know Bonner and Griffin went in the Hall of Fame is not something where you're analyzing it on It's not baseball, where you can just look at stats and say, this guy's in, this guy's out. I think that, as I said, with Diego Sanchez and with Kenny Florian and Joe Lozahn, these guys have been the face of the company and have represented it really well. I don't even know if he's at great fights. I think he's at that level, and I say Joe Lozahn belongs in the UFC Hall of Fame. Now, if at a certain point, there becomes a new MMA Hall of Fame where career wins and things are much more heavily.

weighted. The significance of certain wins are much more heavily weighted. That would change my opinion. But as it stands, Joe Lozahn belongs in the UFC Hall of Fame. Again, hate to say anything negative, but I disagree. How did you land on Diego Sanchez? Were you pro or con? I don't remember us having this discussion.

Did we have it? But if you asked me right now... I think it was more brief, but I don't think so. Okay? No. I get why they did Bonner. And again, I've said it a thousand times, the UFC Hall of Fame is no different than, you know, the Buffalo Bill's Wall of Fame. Right. It's just there who they love and guys that mean something to them and who have been a part of typically the Zoufa era, et cetera, et cetera. Who embodies that? More than Diego Sanchez and Joe Lozon. I feel like those guys are, you know, if they expand the Hall of Fame to something where they're inducting, you know, six, seven guys, a year. year like WW does or even baseball NFL, maybe those guys will sneak in. But when I think of guys

who are sure-fire Hallfamers fighting in the current era, Joe Lozahn does not come to mind. He just doesn't. He may be a People's Hall of Famer. He's a great fan favorite. I mean, that was the people's main event. I hate the fact that I'm actually saying anything negative and you're forcing me to do this. But I mean, come on. Hall of Fame, you got to fight at least a number one contender fight to be considered, in my opinion. It's not just about getting bonus. Remember, some of those fights he lost. Tisk, tisk. Next question.

What's your take on the Ben Asgren Inside MMA interview? Kind of rude to cut him off when he was making valid points. A thousand percent rude. Not kind of rude or kind of rude. Quite frankly, I was shocked by it. You invite someone onto your show. You disagree with his stance. It's not like he was saying, like, you know, racist stuff or sexist stuff.

He was just saying, you know, quite frankly, things that he has said before, on this show. So this was not news per se. But yet, you know, I understand why he was on the show. And you simply disagree with his stance. You're going to cut him off and kind of browbeat him. What was that? I was shocked. I couldn't believe it. I thought that was very unprofessional. And I've just never seen an interview conducted that way. You just don't, you don't agree with the guys. You're just going to cut him off. And not only that, kick him off the show. It's one thing to cut him off and say, okay, let's switch topics. I don't want to get into this. But you kick him off the show. You end the interview. And then he goes, you can't end the interview.

And he goes, we just did. All I'm going to say is, I thought that that was incredibly unprofessional. And I'm not surprised. I mean, outside of, you know, if it was rude or whatever else on an objective level, Ben Ascgren's a quote machine. Don't you kind of want him to keep going? and, you know, make your interview notable because he said X or Y or whatever the case may be, I feel like you're, you can get good stuff out of Ben Ascran. Letting him continue would have probably been the best. Now, certainly it's drawn more attention because of the circumstances,

but I don't think you're necessarily weighing that option at the time and considering that, you know, cutting him off will be the way to get this more views. but I think that letting Ben Askeran to continue and give the quotes that we know that he's capable and ready and willing at any time to give, I think that probably would have been the best course of action. I mean, how big of an ego do you have? And why are you so passionate about this?

I mean, just talking about UFC and one FC, it's like it's not like he was out there, you know, ranting and raving about the cable channel. Yeah, it was a little weird. It was incredibly bizarre. And again, I say not surprised because let's be honest. Even as recently as Friday, for whatever reason, those guys over there haven't been too kind to me from day one, including spreading lies that were brought to light on this show from Pat Militich and disparaging my name and things of that nature. And I don't like talking about other media.

I hate the fact that we're even talking about this and had to talk about low-life media last week. but I've got to tell it like it is. Not surprised, unprofessional, and if I were Ben Ascran, I wouldn't even entertain the idea of going back there. Speaking of Ben Ascran, can Ben Ascran keep his mouth shut long enough to get into the USC to prove how good he is?

You know what? Call me crazy, but I don't think this hurts him. Dana White explicitly said it doesn't hurt him. I really don't think it hurts him. The guy knows how to promote himself, and maybe sometimes he's a little too aggressive maybe. But he's generating a lot of interest for himself in one FC

when, let's be honest, those events don't get that much interest. I mean, it's hard to generate that much press here stateside, right? Or North American side. And he does a fantastic job. And most of the stuff that he is getting pressed for is when he talks about the UFC, so there's a connection there. And, you know, they are the major leagues. But he does a great job.

and there is something to be said for that, you know, that friction. I know people hate when you bring it up, but that's what Stone Cold Steve Austin and Vince McMahon was all about. And it wasn't about him punching him, but wasn't that? It was the employee telling it like it is to the employer. And that's what he's creating right here. Does it result in a contract? Who knows? I did notice Dana White telling a fan on Twitter saying, like, how many fights.

Someone asked him recently, after our. show and after some of the other tweets and things like that. How many fights does he need? Like two or three or something like that? And Dana wrote back 54. So maybe he's changed his stance since then. If he truly wants to be in the UFC, you know, maybe you can lay back. But I get the impression that he really doesn't care. He wants to fight the best. But I think at the end of the day, he doesn't really care. He doesn't care. He won't cry or he won't feel like his career is incomplete if he can't get the deal. I think the competitor in him wants to fight the best, but I think he feels for whatever reason that he's doing a deal with the devil if he actually makes this deal.

Well, I think his stance has always been, I want what I'm worth, and he feels he hasn't been offered what he's worth yet. But I think that this is not a barrier to entry to the UFC, I don't think. I think it's actually only positive for him at this moment because it's creating more attention for Ben Ascran and it's good for Ben Ascran, which is in turn good for the UFC. they were to sign him as, you know, contrary to what you may think it is because he's talking negatively about the UFC, but by doing that, he's increasing his star and should the UFC sign him, they would be getting a bigger, a bigger name, a bigger star. But I do think that if the UFC was to sign him and he continued like this, or even if he didn't continue like this, and he either lost went on a losing streak or anything like that, they could, they would not be able to cut him fast enough.

I think that this would come back to bite him later. It wouldn't be a barrier to entry into the UFC, but I think it would be the reason he would get the fastest ticket you've ever seen out of the UFC. But hey, that means he's no longer worth anything to them. He's just now when he's hot. Exactly. When he needs the UFC to be behind him,

then that would be where this would come back to bite him. Agreed. The next question, I believe this is a little bit cheeky, in your, according to your standards, is the Bellator lightweight title rematch between Will Brooks and Michael Chandler and apropos co-main event? Of course, face swap. Is that 100% though? I think they... Is it just positioned that way on the poster? I think that's just, I don't know. I'd like to think that Scott Coker and Rich Chow and everyone involved know that a title fight should always be last. So I'm going to hold out hope that they put the title fight last. If not, then we'll address this.

But yes, it would be apropos because it's a damn title fight, and it should be last. So it should be a main event. You get it? But do you bump it up to something higher than co-main event? No, no, no. Because the co-main event, as I said, many a times, if the main event fell off, would it be an appropriate main event? And this would.

Absolutely, because it should be the main event. But is it a better fight than the main event, and therefore should it have an even sexier title? No, now you're just talking crazy. The main co-event. By the way, before I get to the next question, I just want to go back to the Ascran thing for a second and why I feel so passionate and weird about talking about it

because if you recall, prior to UFC on Fox 2, Chale Sunnan went on a bit of a rant about this host, right? And a couple of days later, a reporter for this channel came up to me and was very upset about this, even though, again, another case of me getting, you know, heat for what someone says to me. So, you know, I was like, oh, wow, I didn't, you know, I had nothing to do with it. But, you know, I'm going to write to this guy and apologize if it feels like I played any part in it. So I actually wrote a long email apologizing and saying, you know, I have respect and all this stuff.

And I didn't know Chale would go on this rant and all this stuff. Didn't even get a response back. Not only that, this guy went on Moro Rinaloa's show and called me a hack later on. And then people in the network have gone around spreading lies and disparaging my name and just being complete, you know, unprofessional colleagues, if you want to call them. Because I do consider everyone in the media core colleague. Absolutely unprofessional and just not very nice, not kind, and downright jealous, in my opinion. And, again, even quite recently. So I don't have respect for those kind of people.

And I certainly don't have respect. Even if they're not nice to me, I don't respect for unprofessional people, particularly when it comes to interviews, which I feel so passionately about to treat a guest like that, I think is uncalled for. So that's where I'm coming from there. This is our final question.

Ariel, what's in the Black Spider-Anderson Silva box in the studio? Wow. You know what? I feel like you're going to be disappointed. I think we've shown this before. I think it's also been open, but it's always a good time to, you know, refresh people's memory. Wait a second.

There's a problem here, my friends. There's a problem here. You hear me? We have a problem. What is the problem? Because Ed Soros gave me this. He gave me this box. Anderson Silva, you see you right there?

He gave me this box. And inside this box, for the last three, four years, there has been a watch in here. An Anderson Silva, a limited edition watch. There is no more watches. Do you see that? Where is the watch? Do you have any idea?

Unbelievable. No, no, no, I'm being honest right now. No, I don't. Someone stole my watch. Possibly, or it could just possibly be somewhere else, but... I'm pissed off. Who stole my watch? The answer is there is nothing in the box.

There's nothing in the box. There should be an instance of a watch, and I'm sick and tired of this shit. People are stealing my stuff. Who stole it? Unbelievable. I want to know. Do you know? I don't know, but we're going to start an investigation.

You think I'm joking? I'm not. not joking. Will? No idea. Well, I'm very upset. I'm very upset. There's probably Buzzkill. This guy...

He hasn't been seen in a while. This guy caused a lot of problems, Fraser, because I would never notice. What does that say that you would have never noticed? Well, because I thought it was safe and sound. I'm pissed off. There was a great watch in here, and I should have taken it home. Well, now you know.

Way to end the show in a sour note, Frazier. First, we have to talk about... What's up? Cable Access TV, and now you've got to... Oh. I thought you were about to talk about Invicta or upcoming fights or something. Okay, let's run through upcoming fights before we go and end this show on a positive note. There is a litany of events this weekend.

None of them have odds. The heck. Okay, there's only one fight that has odds. You ready for it? Oh, you're going to ask me? There's only one fight. Yeah, shoot, which one? Arlowski Bigfoot.

Oh, Bigfoot's going to be a favorite. How big? In the two to two and a half range? Nope, three and a half. Oh, that's pretty big. Yeah. That's even bigger. I thought he'd be a favorite, a sizable favorite.

That's bigger than even I expected. I don't know if I necessarily... It's kind of weird. It's not like he knocked him out last time, right? It was a decision, if I remember correctly. You know, it's weird. Bigfoot, who was suspended after the Hunt fight, is actually returning before Mark Hunt.

It is a week, but it's still significant. Let's see. Bigfoot beat Arlofsky back in 2010, so this is quite a while ago by decision. Yeah, I'm not so sure about that one. I was so sure that the odds are right on that. So you're saying bet on Arlofsky? I don't know if I'm saying bed on Arloffsky?

I don't know if I'm saying that. It's hard for me to really think anything positively after the shop performance. It wasn't a great one. But I don't think that Arlovsky's much worse now than he was in 2010. I mean, it's possible he's better. So I don't think that the odds are necessarily right. But I don't know if I'd throw down. It's dog or pass for me on that one.

Anyhow, fight pass 545, undercard, main card, 8 p.m. Eastern time. Ephrains Escadero makes his return to the UFC that night. That's the Saturday. Also this Saturday World Series of fighting 13, Marlon Marais versus Cody Bollinger, in a 140-pound catchweight fight after Josh Hill pulled out. I actually met Frankie Perez on Friday, who's fighting the first fight of that main card. That's on NBCSN, prelims 6 o'clock Eastern, NBCSN, 9 p.m. Eastern. Also, as I mentioned earlier, Bellator, another event, Manuel Noon versus Joey Beltran for the

light heavyweight title, Kelly Undinson versus Liam McGee, who has become somewhat of a can't-miss prospect. Ryan Couture also makes his Bellator debut, 7 p.m. Eastern time, prelims, main card, 9 p.m. and also one FC is back and RFA is back and RFA is back and Cage Warriors is back and Bama starring one Paul Daley is back as well on Saturday. So a very busy weekend of MMA action and also the MMA beat is back this Thursday right here on MMAfighting.com. All right, we're going to go now. You can't my music.

Well, I appreciate everyone tuning in. Thanks for all the questions, comments. Thank you for your listener and viewership. Thank you very much to Luke Thomas. We're stopping by. Thank you very much to Tiago Silva. Thank you very much to Henry Sehudo. Very interesting stuff out of him.

And good luck to him as he now embarks on a bantamweight UFC career. Thank you very much to Anthony Rumble Johnson, even though you were late. Good stuff out of him, as always. Thank you very much to Stefan Bonner. Appreciate his insight. Fascinating. And good luck to him against Tito Ortiz, November 15th, San Diego, Cali, A thank you very much to King Mollowal, and congratulations to him, and the rest of Team Dive.

I'm still not sure if he was making a crack at SB Nation. It sounded like he was. But anyway, only love for King Mow. Looking forward to his next fight. Thank you very much also to Ross Goodman for stopping by and good luck with the Vanderlei Silva Case. What will you be watching this weekend? A lot of choices, including a boxing pay-per-view.

Why are all these people going up against that Mayweather fight? It seems strange to me. But anyhow, we'll talk about all of that and a whole lot more. Same time next week. So I hope you will join us. If you missed anything, check it out, iTunes, MbFaFindon.com, Stitcher, all that good stuff. Until next week, I say Pesh. Show my day.

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