MMA Fighting - The MMA Hour - Episode 285

Episode Date: June 8, 2015

Featuring Ryan Bader, Ben Rothwell, Travis Tygart, Ovince Saint Preux, Javier Mendez, Luke Barnatt, Cathal Pendred, Darren Till, and Brian Ebersole. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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The Mixed Martial Arts Hour back in your life on this Monday, June 8th, 2000. And 15. Hello again, everyone. I'm Ariel Halwani. Inside our New York City studio is on my headphones. Weird way to start the show. I'm sitting on the cord of my headphones, and it's like dragging down my headphones. But it's okay.

I will fight through it, just like an MMA fighter. in adversity. Dealing with adversity. Well, it's great to be here, everyone, by the way. My name is Ariel. I think I said that at the top, but I was totally thrown off. Another Monday show, a pack show for all of you,

looking forward to talking about some mixed martial arts, a jam-pack show, nine guests on today's show, and of course, one of the big stories of the past weekend. The Return of Dan Henderson. You talk about turning back the clock. You throw that turn around all the time in sports, right? Turning back the clock. Dan Henderson, my friends,

he turned back the clock. Knocking out Tim Boch in a matter of seconds. Unbelievable. Everyone, including most of the media, counting him out. We're talking about how are they going to get rid of this guy? How's he going to sail off into the sunset? He's talking about three more fights.

Everyone's wishing that they can find some kind of way to stop giving him fights. And Dan Henderson, everything he's done, 44 years young, shows up in New Orleans, Louisiana, and knocks out Tim Boch. in 28 seconds. 28 seconds for Dan Henderson.

That's turning back the clock. The last time he had a victory of that nature, knockout. In less than a minute, September 25th, 2005, Pride Bushido 9. He defeated Rio Chonan. And now all of a sudden we all looked very dumb. And I think what I learned from all of that was, look, at this stage in the game,

you don't have to fight the killers. It reminds me of BJ Penn. I never really thought BJ Penn had to. to retire when he did, but he was fighting the best of the best. There's no shame in fighting the 15th ranked or 20th rank guy. What's wrong with that? And maybe that's where Dan Henderson is at right now. We'll see what happens. Not trying to get too crazy here, but he certainly shut up a lot of people on Saturday night in New Orleans. And what a show it was. A lot of fun to watch. It flew by, in fact, my good friends over at Fight Metric Tell me, the event tied the modern era record for most

First round stoppages was seven. Among UFC events with exactly 12 fights, it was the fourth shortest such event at 79 minutes and 28 seconds. The others, Fight Night 32, Buffford v. Henderson, UFC 146, JDS versus Mere, Fight Night 14, Anderson versus James Irvin, and the tough finale won. This is modern era only, but it certainly flew by.

It was a lot of fun to watch, and there were some big performances, Ben Rothwell, who we'll talk about in a second here. Wow. I don't know what I was most impressed by. The submission, the post-fight interview, the hand gestures, the chest hair, that was amazing stuff. And the car just top to bottom, breakout performances, dominant wins, eye-opening wins, a lot of fun to watch Saturday night in New Orleans.

And, of course, now we look ahead to Mexico City, UFC 188, the much-anticipated Kane Velazquez versus Fabrice O Verduem, title unification bout, which has completely flown under the radar, and the people's main event, of all people's main event, I mean, really, this, whoops, this is what the people's main event is all about, Gilbert Melendez versus Eddie Alvarez,

to crown the people's champion, the underground king, if you will, two guys who have been fighting in different organizations for so many years who have been talking about fighting. In fact, they did so on this show five years ago, and now finally we're going to see that fight. What a great matchup.

Co-made event. Fun card in Mexico City, I'll be over there, looking forward to that as well. So we have a lot to discuss, as always, on today's show. As I said, we have nine guests, and I remind you that today's episode of the M.A. is presented by NOS. Do something epic.

Go make your mark on the world. Hashtag with this Noss I will. Follow them on Twitter. At NOS Energy Drink. So today's rundown is as follows. Around 4 o'clock, we'll take your questions and comments. You know the drill by now.

Do what you got to do. 4 o'clock as well, we'll go inside the vault. 4.05 questions, 4 o'clock inside the vault. 345, the newly retired Brian Ebersol, who retired right after his loss on Saturday night. We'll join us. Remember last week on the show Inside the Vault, we looked at his post-fight interview after UFC 127.

His UFC debut in his adopted home country of Australia, very emotional. So he called to quits on Saturday night. I don't want to talk to him about that. 325 will talk to a call Penderd. He faces Dodger. Saturday night in Mexico, he's already there. And Dodger Montano is a very popular guy.

When I went to Mexico for UFC 180, he probably was the most popular guy on the entire card. Now, no cane on the card, but this is like some kind of rock, pop star, TV star. He dresses like one as well. Very interesting. and also interesting is that, or maybe baffling, is that this fight is happening on the fight past prelims.

Surprised to see that. 305, the aforementioned Ben Rothwell will stop by. What a great win for him. Where does he go from here? We'll talk all about that with him. 245. We're going to talk to Javier Mendez, who is also in Mexico right now.

Preview Velasquez v. Verdum. Kane's first fight in 20 months. Also, other AKA-related news. Darren Till, who looks so good in his UFC debut, Less than two weeks ago, took the fight on 10 days notice. He is a cocky one. He's a lot of fun. He has an amazing liver-pudlian

Portuguese accent. I believe it's scouser. Is that the right way of saying it's scouser? Anyway, he has this amazing English-slash-portuguese accent. He pulls it off very well. I'm looking forward to talking to Darren Till, 205, Ovenst St. Peru is going to stop by. big fight, August 8th, against Glover Tashara in his home state, Tennessee, big draw over there.

Travis Tiger will stop by, wow, what a big guess this is. I am so excited for 145. He is the CEO of the United States Anti-Doping Agency. Gigantic news on Wednesday. UFC partnering with USADA, independent drug testing. This is as big as it gets. And Travis Tigard, a man who you may have heard of if you're a sports fan, the man who really led the charge in banning Lance Armstrong. from cycling and exposing Lance Armstrong as the cheater that he was will join us at 145. He is now in charge of cleaning up MMA. Amazing. Can't wait to talk to Travis at 145.

And 125, Ryan Bader will stop by. He was passed over for a title shot. Amazingly. Now it's going to Alexander Gustafin, and I should reiterate. I have nothing against Alex. I'm happy for the guy, but I thought Ryan did enough. We'll talk to him about that at 125. First, though, let us go to the phone lines and welcome in our very first

guest of the day. This man unfortunately received some bad news late last week released from the UFC after his loss to Mark Munoz's friend of the show. I know he will bounce back. He'll find a home very soon. We want to talk to him about that news and what is next. His name Luke, are you there?

I am. How are you in? Luke, thank you very much for the time. When did you find out that you were released from the UFC? Last week, about a day before I announced it on my Instagram, so I can't remember exactly what it was because I'm a bit all over the place, but yeah, last week at some point. And what was your reaction when you found out? I wasn't surprised, you know, I completely expected it.

After the last three fights I've had, I was, you know, I had a glimmering hope in the back of my mind that they might take into account the short, Strickland fight that was not really a loss. But, you know, it's a fight business, and I've lost three in a row, so I had to go. I know. You don't have a manager right now. right? No, I do have a manager. I do, and then a guy named Tom Banks. He works for me and Okay. I love Tom. I deal directly with the UFC and with Joe and all the fight-related

stuff. He just works on spotships and everything else that I do. Right, okay, and Tom is probably going to think that was a shot at him. What I meant was, I was under the impression that you were the one that dealt with the UFC for this kind of stuff, fight bookings, et cetera. So what I was getting at was, and by the way, I love Tom, great guy, a snazzy dresser. You were the one that got the call, right? It was someone from the UFC that called you to tell you the news. Yeah, Joe gave me a ring. He emailed me, told me to link him, and I gave him a call. I spoke to him directly, yeah. And did you try to, you know, make a case for, you know, the Strickland fight and some other performances, or did you just take it and said, all right, well?

No, no, no, I didn't make a case for myself, you know. If the UFC aren't interested and they think I need to go away and went some fights or, you know, I'm not going to beg for my job. I understand, like, where they're at and they have 600-plus fighters on the roster, and you can't go out and losing fights, you know. I completely accepted the news, and like I said, I expected it. So when Joe told me, we had a little chat about it, and that was that. So since this news came out, it really was released to the public on Thursday. What kind of reaction did you receive from fans, other people, and the community, etc?

Oh, a fantastic response, you know, from the fans especially, but also just, you know, people who work for the UFC, you know, I'm not only to name anyone, but like people across from people who are working in the media to working in the office to every aspect of the UFC. They all got in contact with me, wished me well and said it. They were sad to see me go, you know, and it was really, really nice, you know. I had a lot of fans on Twitter and Instagram and everything like that, message me and Facebook. So it was really, really nice, and I was actually quite surprised at the response at how much of a response I got. Do you want to keep fighting?

Oh, of course. You know, of course, I, uh, it's disappointing to be, um, let go by the UFC. But at the same time, if you look at my career, I started in Smarth, when I was 21 years old, I never did anything. anything else before that. So I didn't do boxing, tie boxing, anything. I just went into MMA. It was only

six years ago. Within six years, I, you know, had to fight. It's turned pro in 2011 in September and got to the UFC faster than anyone I know. You know, I got there very, very quickly and had a good little run. And I think, to be honest, it was just a bit too early for me. I think I, I did it all very quickly, and I took to it quite well. And, you know, I went through the ultimate fight to process, which was great as well. And I've had some good experiences within the UFC, but if I had, I feel like now, where I'm at right now in my career, I'm 27 years old,

and I'm just getting into my stride with it, or, you know, just really piecing it all together. And I think one, two more fights, and I would have been, I would have been ready to really make a run. But, you know, it's, timing is, is key in this sport. And I feel like if I go away, you know, refocus, recalculate myself and come back,

and I think I'll be stronger than ever. So in hindsight, do you wish that you didn't try out for the ultimate fighter and gotten into the UFC when you did? Oh, absolutely not. No, no, no. I don't regret a thing I've done. I think I've had a fantastic journey.

And getting left by the UFC, a lot of people see it as failure, and, you know, he's failing in a certain aspect. But you can't look. It's not like a negative thing for me. I think it's just a part of the journey. It's something I need to do. I need to go through.

You know, I had fixed fights. So I feel like I definitely won four. of those fights, they're at the highest level in the UFC, so I'm very happy with what I've done. I'm very happy with the last three years with the UFC, I've gone through the ultimate fighter, the people I've met, the contacts I've made,

I know more about the sport now than I ever would have known before, and it's really opened my eyes to a lot of things, and I'm proud of myself, I'm proud of what I've achieved, and like I said, I started sports six years ago. So in six years, I've done great things, and I've been to great places. I've traveled the world. I've fought on three different continents

for the UFC. And I feel like I've really been a good ambassador for them across Europe and all over. So I'm very, very proud of it. And I wouldn't change it for anything. And I've tasted what I want to do. I've tasted my dream. And I just need to make sure I get back there. You know, so it's just another path for me.

First three fights in the UFC, very impressive, two finishes, one decision win. And then, of course, you had the two split decision losses and most recently unanimous decision to Mark Munoz. What was the difference between the first three fights? and the last three fights, it felt to me like in the first three, you were oozing confidence. I mean, in particular, those last two wins,

you looked very good and very confident in your abilities. I remember, you know, there's that one fight in particular where you celebrated like three times, and those could have been all, you know, deemed victories and stoppages. But then maybe it felt like things changed along the way. What changed? Well, you know, I've been, I've had a lot of change, a lot of gone through,

but mainly in my poor team, but I was training with when I had post victories. It kind of fell apart around me. So a lot of the guys that I was training with and fighting with retired or moved on or moved. And the team that was with at the tsunami gym dissipated some such. And I had to start searching for a new home.

So that's when I made the move to Alliance Mixed Martial Arts. And the facility and the training at Alliance is far superior to what I had before. You know, it's a different level to where I was training before. when it comes to just raw talent, skills and coaching. You know, it's just a much more professional outfit. But I didn't have the base that I had.

I didn't have the home that I had. I've been living out of a suitcase chasing my dream for the last, you know, year and a half, moving around, not being settled. And I think having that, along with not having my team around me, has had a negative effect on me. Looking back again in hindsight at the time, you never really realize it. But I feel like having a strong base and a strong foundation

and being somewhere all the time is very, very helpful. Right now I'm constantly moving around and having, I'm moving around, but I don't have the funds like the money that you have when you're up there in the UFC to bring people with me and to bring coaches with me and to be, you know, completely settled. So I feel like that's one of the things I'll definitely take into account now. I'm not looking to jump back into a fight straight away. You know, I'm getting married in 11 months, 11 weeks. And, you know, after that, I've got other things to do.

And I just want to get completely settled, find a home. No matter where it is in the world, it doesn't need to be next to the best gym in the world. Or the best, you know, I just have a tight-knit group around me, get training. And, you know, and really find that home again. I think that's what I've been missing for the last year. So you're going to leave San Diego now? I'm leaving today. Oh.

I have to fly home. It's, you know, there's nothing from Black. I'm not going to fight for a little while. I'm getting mad in 11 weeks, so we thought it was best to get back, get back to see the family, get ready for the wedding. I've got my passion party to go to, all that sort of stuff. So, yeah, we're out of here today, and then, you know, I'll definitely come back here for portions of my camp, but I won't be moving around so much. I want to find a place, settle in that one place, and then maybe come out here for four weeks, five weeks before fight. Maybe, you know, it will depend on where I'm going to be.

I'm fighting who I'm fighting and what's going on, you know. So we haven't talked to you since the Mark Runez fight. We had you on the show before the fight. And, you know, what a moment. Everyone seemed so happy for Mark. It was a great post-fight speech. But I was one of them for sure. It even got me emotional.

But I couldn't help but feel sorry for you to a degree that you had to be in that, you know, situation that position. That was a tough spot to be in. Not only is Mark universally loved and this was his last fight, but it was also taking place in the Philippines. He's a huge star there. everyone was cheering for him. That was a tough environment for, you know,

was a very important fight for you. How tough in hindsight was it? I mean, did you feel, did you feel any of that? Could you feel that the entire nation was going against you, that everyone in the MMA community seemed to be rooting against you? Did that mess with you at all? I definitely felt it. Like you said, everyone was rooting for Mark,

but I don't think it mess with me one bit. You know, I think it mess with Mark. I think Mark, it really ignited Mark, and he bought it. I like everybody in the sport I haven't got a bad word to say about Mark Gagnos and I think he's a great guy and he's done great things for the sport and you know

I was really going after that fight you know I obviously I needed it as you can tell because now I've been released and I knew that going in you know and I really went after the fight and I put on a performance I'm happy you know obviously I lost and I lost pretty handedly

you know I lost and I think two of the three rounds I still haven't watched it back so that's just from memory but you know he came alive in that fight and really come up me like he hasn't in past performances and I think that was due to the fact

that it was his last fight and it was in the Philippines and I underestimated those sorts of things going to the fight I didn't even really think about them I just thought you know it was going to be my fight and I was going to take it

the way I wanted to take it and I made a few mistakes in the fight and he capitalized on them and that's that's fighting but I'm happy with that fight because Mark he brought it to me he gave me a fight

you know, at the end of the day, he'd come at me, and he hit me, and he hit me hard, and he kept coming and kept coming and kept coming. You know, unlike my other two fights in the UFC where the guys have been running. They've been running away from me. I don't mind being in a fight a war like that with Mark and losing. That doesn't bother me.

You know, I got to show some of my skills. I got to show my heart, and I got to give it everything I have. And it wasn't good enough that day. So, you know, that is the sport that we're in. You can't win every fight. So I'm happy with that. I'm happy with the fight.

I'm happy with the experience in the Philippines. And, you know, when you move on, on. You know, that's what we do. Why haven't you watched it? I haven't been able to. Okay. I've been trying to. I can't find a, obviously I was in the Philippines, so I didn't have it on, like, record

or anything. I haven't been home to my actual home yet. I've been back to San Diego. And it's not on Fire Pass yet, so I've been looking on fire pass, and it's not been on there. Oh. And I just, I haven't been able to see it. So to start with, I didn't watch it.

Obviously, the fight happened. and then I was in the Philippines for two weeks with my fiancé. We went a whole day. And I just didn't want to watch, because as soon as I watched the fight, a lot of things come up. So I just wanted to leave it alone and enjoy my holiday and then watch it when I got home and start training and working on some of the things that happened in the fight.

But now it's not available to watch. One of my favorite things about MMA is to look at the Twitter feeds of the two guys who just fought a few hours later. And sometimes, you know, we got this a couple times, on that card, you'll see an interaction between the two. A lot of respect, compliments, and your situation was no different. You had very nice things to say about Mark.

There's a picture of both of you together. What did you say to him after the fight, and what did he say to you? He said, from memory, he said, man, you're one tough kid, I think is what he said. He hit me hard a lot of times to the fight, and I just kept coming and coming, but we just spoke, you know,

I met Mark quite a few times, spoke to him quite a few times, I spoke to him about, obviously, his gym situation, he left his gym, what he was going to do, he stayed in the Philippines for a couple of weeks with his family, and he had like 250 of his family at the fight, distant relatives. So, you know, he had a good time afterwards and got to see a lot of people. And, you know, I just shook his hand and said, you know, thanks for the opportunity, thanks for everything he's done for the sport. And, you know, I'm sure, like I said, like I said in my tweet, you know, he's looking forward now to changing his life and looking off

his kids and he's going to take his kid trying to get him a wrestling scholarship, so you know, I was like, good luck with that, and I hope everything goes well for him. I would imagine, you know, the state of English MMA, as far as promotions

go, is kind of in a weird spot right now. There aren't as many as there were a few years ago, but there are still some who are, you know, popping up, Bama comes to mind, etc. Cage Warriors seems to be very much in a state of transition if they even exist at all. Have any of those reached out to you yet because I would imagine that you'd be a perfect fit for those

to kind of get back on track. Yeah, I mean, like you said, the thing that's going on with Cage was in some sort of transition. They were the outfit in Europe because they were putting on so many shows and so many high-level guys and et cetera, et cetera, so they would have been a good option. But Bama have, well, I'm obviously powered in my hand. So before I even announced that I had been dismissed from USC, I contacted quite a few guys. Bama was one of them. I don't know Jude Samuel said,

the matchmaker I know him very, very well. We've trained together, and he's a good friend of mine, so I've contacted him, see if there's anything we could do. But the dates right now, for me, I'm, you know, like I said,

I'm a bit all over the place, and I'm moving back home to England, I'm getting married in 11 weeks, you know, Bama's next show, we'll have a show this weekend, but I think following that, it's September 19th,

which is, like, three weeks after my wedding. It's my fiance's birthday, you know, all these sort of thing, and it just doesn't really work for me at the moment. So later on that, I think it's October or November, and that might just be too long for Bama, you know, because there's other options out there

and if they come forward with a good enough offer. So it's complicated at the moment. I'm just weighing up all my options. I'm getting all of the offers in, and I'm going to pick the best one that suits me the best. You know, one of the great things about not being with the UFC is you have a little bit more power. You know, you're a bit more, you have more choice.

It's up to you. You're the fighter. you're the boss. When you're with the UFC, it doesn't really work like that, you know. You wait for the phone, and if it calls it, it's great.

If it rings, it's great. But when you're outside the UFC, you have a bit more power, so, you know, I'm going to negotiate my way through and try and find the best option for me. I'm looking to fight pretty much late October,

November, because of the wedding. So I want to get settled, get training, and then look to fight then. You know, and it's, obviously, there's Bellator out there as well,

which is looking to expand, their UK market and it's one of those options with Bellator like I've watched the promotion I like the promotion a lot of guys that train out Alliance are in the promotion obviously Phil Davis being the newest member but we also have Michael Chandler

who sort of two of their biggest names so that could suit me very very well but it's one of those things that once you go with Bellator do you really have a chance to get back for the UFC I know things have changed a little bit now but I just I don't know

but if Bellator offer me and offer that you know really really suits me and I feel like can benefit my life moving forward then I think Bellator would be the way I go if not I really want to fight for the UFC

so I'll look to fight like you said on Bama or there's loads of little promotions out there that would want me so I look to get the best offer and the best fight go in and rack up some wins and get back to the UFC

and honestly if you can't fight on that October, if it just doesn't make sense for you, Bama, you can throw my name into the hat of people that would love to see you do more TV work. I thought you were fantastic when you moonlighted for us in January

in Sweden, perhaps as a color commentator for one of these events. I'd love to see you do more of that. You're a very smart analyst when it comes to breaking down the fights and just offering your views. So we'd love to see that out of you in addition to whatever fighting is coming your way as well. Last thing for you, Luke,

and again, we appreciate the time. I know you have a doctor's appointment, and I really appreciate you. By the way, are you healthy, or did something happen to you in the fight? Are you still banged up? I'm 100% healthy. I'm absolutely fine if I have to get checked off by the doctor.

I have, I believe, a fractured orbital. Oh, wow. Or a part of my face. To be honest, when they told me, I'm just completely ignored it. But it's an orbital or my cheekbone or something like that that had a very slight hairline fracture in it. so I had an 180-day suspension

and I need to get it checked off to make sure that I can fight again. Oh, wow. And it should double-check and it's not infected as well, but I'm absolutely fine. Okay, well, that is good to hear. I just want to know before we let you go,

right now, the story isn't over, but when I say your time in the UFC, what was the highlight? What sticks out? There's a lot, but I think for me now, it's fighting, it was fighting in London

against Matt Nelson, and the walkout for me, fighting in London. I had the O-2, someone I'd always wanted to fight, and I got to walk out in front of the English fans and get a big cheer and put on a great performance and get a knockout in the first round. And I think that was one of the many highlights that I think, but that's the one that comes to mind right now.

Well, I look forward to many more. You're a class act, Luke. I wish you the best. I'm sorry to hear that this happened. I know a lot of people were upset about it, but have no doubt that you'll bounce back. For now, good luck with the doctor's appointment. good luck in your travels back home.

Good luck with the wedding. And keep us posted on what's next for you. We appreciate it. Thank you very much. Have a great show. All right. There he is. Luke Barnott's stopping by.

Now a free agent looking for work. Fun guy, fun guy to watch. He's had a bit of a, you know, a bit of a stumble here. A little bit of a roadblock. But as they say, the road to success is always under construction. So for Luke Barnett, currently under construction, looking forward to seeing how he rebounds.

All right, let's move along. Big news last week was that on UFC tonight on Fox Sports 1, Wednesday night, Dana White was on, and he told Daniel Cormier essentially to his face, screen to face, that Ryan Bader wasn't next for him, that it would be Alexander Gusseson. The same Alexander Gustafin, who was coming off a loss, a knockout loss to Anthony Johnson.

Didn't go into it all that much, but he said that that's what they were looking at. had to have Ryan Bader on to talk about this. We had him on not that long ago prior to UFC 187. We spoke to him after the altercation, if you will, at the post-fight press conference. It seemed like a no-brainer at the time, but that doesn't appear to be the case right now.

So let's talk to Ryan about all of this. Ryan, are you there? I'm here. How are you doing? I'm doing great. When did you find out that the UFC was leaning in the direction of Alexander Gustafin as opposed to you? Well, I actually I gave Dana-Wy to call

When was it last Friday or I can't remember which I talked to him And he just kind of asked him I said hey, just be honest Let me know what's going on You know, I want to know where we're headed As far as little fighting next If we're getting a title shot

And he told me that I kind of looking at Rashad and I And that Gus said They're looking at Custin putting him in there for the title So it was surprising for me definitely, you know, and then seeing it come out and just really talked about them saying that they're targeting that. It's definitely surprising. What was your reaction? Like, what did you say to him? Because, you know, now we're several

days removed, so I'm sure you've calmed down a little bit. But when you were first told that that Alexander Guston coming off a knockout loss was getting the title shot, how did you react? Well, when I talked to Dana, I just kept pleading my case on why I should get it. And I just didn't think it made sense. You know, you got a guy. off a knockout lot to the guy that just got submitted, you know, and he's one or two in the last three fight. I got a four-fight win streak

going on. I've been fighting top 10 caliber guys. You know, Gus is a great fighter. He's awesome. But he just doesn't deserve that shot right now. Coming off a loss like that. And you told that to Dana. What was his response? He, uh, that whole

the whole thing, conversation with Dana is just basically me, you know, kind of in my case, and um, he didn't kind of telling, you know, Gus deserves it, and he's had a couple chances, and we need to put him in there. So, I mean, that was pretty much it. You know, I can't remember the whole conversation, but it was just, you know, I was just surprised and kind of just keep telling him why I deserve it.

But, you know, at the end of the day, I'm not going to cry about it. It is what it is. Whether whoever has to fight next, whether it's a shot or anything, you know, go out there and beat them. They can't deny me after that. Correct me if I'm wrong here. when you found out that Daniel Cormier was being taken out of your fight to go fight Anthony Johnson to UFC 187 and you told the world you want a title shot

and you certainly had a case to make there, were you told if you sit out, if you don't take any other fights on June 6th or maybe a month or two later, that you would be getting a title shot? No, I never told that, no. But you took that chance? What's that? Did you take that chance? Did you say, look, I'm not going to accept any fight, Glover, or whatever,

because I want to take the chance. I want to be there ready for the winner of the 187 title fight? We did say that. We wanted to fight the winner of Cormier. Yeah, we didn't definitely say that. And we were never to offer any fights or anything like that either. So, you know, we were waiting. We showed up as a fight.

I wanted to see kind of see, obviously, what was going to happen in that fight, and they'd go forward with there. And, you know, a couple weeks went by. And like I said, I picked up a phone called Dana, and then, you know, that's where I figured that out a couple days before. got released to the public. And so, you know, for us right now, that was the post in January, wanted to fight Cormier in June.

Obviously, that didn't happen. And so, you know, now it's more months off here, just waiting and waiting, you know. It looks like a fight for shot. You know, that's an awesome fight. We like that fight. Obviously, we like the title shot. But, you know, we'll see what happens. They get to, you know, they say the targeting Justin.

So, who knows, maybe people can get in the U.S.D. and turn it around. Yeah, well, it seems like you have a lot of people backing you on this. I'm wondering if you now regret not fighting this past weekend in New Orleans, just to remain active, because who knows? I mean, Rashad told me that he's hoping to return in September, but you never know. Maybe there's no slot. You know, he's coming off a knee injury.

Do you wish you kind of took a fight against a Glover just to remain active? Oh, absolutely. You know, I'm watching those fights where I was supposed to be fighting, you know. Yeah, but in fact, I do wish I took a fight, you know. You know, that being said, the title shots don't come around that often. You know, so we took that chance and, you know, seeing if we could get that and it kind of backfired. But, you know, we're in a good position right now regardless.

Like I said, you know, I want to win streak here to find tough guys. The next fight is going to be one of those, you know, top five kind of guys like a red shot probably. And then after that, and then, yeah, you know, I go out there and beat him. I don't think you can deny it at all. but I do wish I was fighting and staying active. Did they tell you that? Did they tell you that, you know, Rashad is the guy who makes sense, that's what they want, and that if you beat him,

there'll be no denying you a title shot? No, they didn't say that. They, you know, basically kind of the same thing, you know, looking at Rashad and myself fighting in September, whenever he comes back, and that was pretty much it, you know. And, you know, go out there and beat him, and you got a strong case. you know, that's what was told to me. So all we can do here is just sitting wait, and, you know, I just keep training and wish I would have fought, you know, Saturday, but we kind of rolled the dice, and it didn't happen.

I know you said that they never told you you were getting the tell shot, but after what happened at the Post-Fight press conference, I mean, that little incident there has almost a million views on our YouTube page and many others as well. Did you kind of think you had it in the bag? Yeah, I did, to be honest, you know. you know, we were supposed to fight already. You know, I was good enough to fight him then. Why not now? And so that's kind of how I'm looking at it. You know, you never know.

But, you know, my team and I really thought we had that. So it's definitely, you know, it's disappointed, but I'm not going to hear and cry about it. And all I can do is just go prove myself more. Did that take a lot out of you? Because what made it so special, what made it so unique, was that we've never really seen you do something like that. you know, what happened at the press conference.

Did you say to yourself, all right, I need to do something drastic here to get everyone's attention, to get everyone on this bandwagon. Was that a hard thing for you to pull off? Well, it wasn't a fabricator. It wasn't, you know, no, no. I'm not implying that. Yeah, yeah, no. You know, it got to be fired up, and I've never, you know, felt disrespected like that

in, you know, from an opponent before fights or anything. And so that's where that was kind of coming from. Did it help? a little, but in the end it didn't. You know, so, you know, we're sitting here without a title fight, and Gus Sin dot it. So, you know, I was fired up at Cormier and had some animosity, but now it looks like we're not going to,

we're not going to obviously fight for the title, and we'll see down the road. So I've got to move on either think about somebody else or Rashad or my next opponent and just move past that whole deal. Do you think Cormier is happy about this, that he doesn't have to fight you and has to fight, you know, a guy who's known for his striking? You know, I thought I matched up really will for me

and give him a problem that other people haven't really given up. I don't know. I think he can go in there and beat just and use his wrestling, so I definitely felt that I was a more dangerous fight for sure. So do you think that this is something that maybe he was campaigning for behind the scenes? No, I mean, he went out there and won the belt. He's going to fight for, for whoever, you know, and I'm sure he wanted to fight me.

You know, we've had some words and, you know, got heated a little bit. So I don't think he's out there, you know, campaigning just for Gus or anything like that. He was just kind of given to him and, you know, what can you do? He's a champ, and so he was where we fight next. What do you think this says about, you know, the state of title shots in the UFC? Do you think this is, you know, a real black guy that a guy who, you know, has won four in a row, has passed up for a guy who's coming off a knockout?

or do you understand to a degree why they want to do this? Because, you know, D.C. wins. You have that rematch with Jones. Gus wins. You have that rematch with Jones. Do you think that's what it's all about or do you think that there's another reason for this?

You know, coming from our background as wrestlers, you know, we go out there and winning is everything. So we kind of approach it like that and approach this as a sport. But at the end of the day, also you have to look at it is an entertainment business also. So, you know, so for me, like, do I understand? Kind of, but, you know, for me going forward, it's like, do I go out there and not use what I'm the best at, you know, usually wrestling?

Doug Walker and just, you know, stand and bang with everybody and have those fights now. Because is that what they want to say? I know people want to see that, but is that going to get you the title shot, even coming off a losses and everything? So it's kind of a kind of puts you, you know, as a fighter in a weird little place because, you know, you've been in everything to us, but at the same time, you know, you're going to have exciting fights and, you know, keep pushing it in that way. And, you know, it's obvious now, you know, you get a title shot coming off of a loss and, you know, one and two and last three fights. And like I said, he's an awesome fighter, no doubt about it. But at this particular time, he doesn't deserve his title shot.

So do you think you will fight differently? Let's say it is against Rashad. And, you know, that kind of reminds me of the Phil Davis matchup, although, you know, Rashad beat him. And I think a lot of people would say that he's a better Army fighter. Who knows how he, you know, rebounds from this long layoff. But do you now have to change the way you fight in order to get a title shot, in your opinion? Maybe.

You know, it sucks. But, yeah, maybe I go out there and take more chances and open up. Or I know I can. I've shown it in other fights. but, you know, and maybe that is what is needed. You know, go out there and not only beat Rashad, but, you know, make an exciting fight. So it may a little bit. It may just, you know, I'll go out there and take some more chances.

Do you have any idea when this fight may happen? Like, did they give you a better time frame than what I was given, Rashad? I was just waiting on, waiting on Rashad, you know. Coming out at knee surgery, so they said September or October, you know, And that's a little ways off. You know, we're supposed to fight here in June, and I live up to my obligations. You know, I told me to go, what could I do?

And now I'm waiting longer and longer. So it kind of sucks to be in the spot right now, but we'll make the best bit. Like I said, I'm not going to cry about it. Just put in the work and look forward to if it's Rashad or whoever. What kind of reaction have you seen, or have you even looked at it? I don't know.

You weren't very active on Twitter when all this happened. And have you seen people trying to stick up for you and make the case on your behalf? I've certainly seen it, but I'm wondering what you've seen. No, definitely. You know, on my Twitter and all that and in the media, you know, people definitely have my back. And I think they kind of see through the whole thing of, you know, they don't see how Gus can get this shot. I think he even did an article something that he was surprised that he got the shot. He had no idea.

Yeah. Yeah, so there are people rallying around a little bit, but I don't know if that's enough to change their mind on this particular title shot. When you found out, did you have to take a break from MMA for a second, like mentally, where you kind of, you know, so mad that you just, you didn't want to think about the sport for a second? Because I would imagine you worked so hard to get to the position that you were in, and I know it's weird circumstances.

We can't forget the fact that John, you know, is on hiatus, whatever, and new champion. But, you know, I thought I would have bet a lot of money after what happened at that press conference that you were getting that title shot. How do you process all of that? You know, it sucked. Like you said, I stayed off social media. Just kind of shut down on MNA for a little while, you know,

I was a little jaded for a couple of days there. But like I said, I'm not going to cry about it. What can I do? But just to keep proving myself. I thought we had it. I've been thinking about Kormnay for a long time now. You're supposed to fight here in June. You know, I knew about that fight, you know, three, four months ago.

You know, the back gets pulled. But then I'm thinking I'm fighting him again for a title shot this time, and then they throw Gusin. So, yeah, I was a little jaded a little bit. You know, still am, but what can I do? Yeah. Do you think that if your win over Phil Davis was more dominant, one-sided, not even a finish, but just more one-sided that you had gotten in the shot, or do you think that Gususon, because of the history of Jones, was going to get it regardless?

you know I don't know now looking at it you go out there and dominate Phil Davis and like I said make it more a lot of exciting fight and then then maybe maybe they didn't get in there but you know I don't know if there's other plans that they want you know they want customers in there

in case Jones comes back and you know you can sell that fight or you can sell the Cornwall Jones fight also you know so yeah I'm not going to lie it sucks yeah Safe to say that you're rooting for DC, though. Is that the fight that you want eventually? Yeah, I would love to fight D.C.

We're supposed to schedule to fight a couple times, and I've watched so much tape on him. I've, you know, coaches dissected him the whole deal, and so I definitely like him to go out there and win. I beat Rashad or whatnot, and then I get the next shot. Have you seen him parading with the belt? Is any of that annoying you? I haven't even paid attention now.

Has he been? Yeah, I mean, he's happy. be in, I can't blame him, but I was wondering if, given your history and what happened, if that was getting under your skin at all. Because he continued, even on UFC tonight, when Rashad said that he wanted to fight you, he said, of course, you're the easiest guy in the division. He went back to that line. He's thrown that line out a lot, yep. I, you know, I kind of just set off when I stopped thinking about him after the whole deal with the, with guests getting it. You know, I just kind of moved on. I'm not going to keep bickering with them if it's for nothing.

Right. Final thing for you, and we appreciate the time very much. I'm wondering if you have a deadline in your mind. Like if Rashad can't come back by certain time, are you just going to take any kind of fight just to remain active? You have to make money, right? It's your job. Yeah, of course, yeah.

I mean, if Rashad can come back in September, that would be perfect. Okay. I think that's the earliest he can. So September would be good. But you never know. He's had two knee surgeries there. What happens? We're going through to get hurt again.

I would definitely step in there and just fight a fight just to get paid, just to stay active. And it doesn't matter who it is. All right. Well, we wish you the best of luck and really commend you on how you're dealing with all of this. Because, you know, again, I think a lot of people, including myself, were surprised. And also, again, nothing against Alex, as you mentioned, great guy, great fighter. It just seemed like, you know, you win four in a row, you lose your last via knockout. It's kind of a no-brainer.

But we've learned countless times over that sometimes no-brain. in MMA aren't exactly no-brainers. There are different factors involved. But I commend you on how you are dealing with all this, and I wish you the best of luck if you do fight Rashad, and best of luck in trying to get that title shot sooner rather than later. Thanks, I appreciate it.

All right, there he is. Ryan Bader stopping by. Great stuff from him. A tough spot, but he is certainly dealing with it as well as he can. I mean, you don't want to come out and start complaining and pouting. I mean, no one ever really takes to that very well. but I certainly

was surprised and I saw some people after talking about it on the MA beat saying, you know, why are you hating on Alexander Gustafin? I am not hating on Alexander Gustafin. I have a lot of respect.

I think he's a tremendous fighter and I understand why you want to put him in the position of potentially fighting John Jones as soon as possible. Let's not forget he was supposed to fight John Jones not that long ago

unfortunately for him he got injured. And then D.C. came in and then we got the fight after, you know, John suffered that knee injury. We got it in January. He was supposed to get that title shot. We know this. And a lot of people thought he was going to get it after their first fight. He took a fight against Jimmy Manoa, waited, and unfortunately for him, he got injured. I have a lot of respect for him. I love that fight. That was one of my favorite fights of all time. The first Jones, gustus and fight, the only Jones, gustus and fight. But I think, you know, and when we've seen this before, let's not pretend that we haven't seen people coming off of losses get title shots. We've seen this before.

Frankie Edgar got it. Misha Tate got it. Nick Diaz got it. That's just in the last few years. But none of those were, you know, brutally knocked out, viciously knocked out in the first round. I know, I know Misha, you know, she was finished, but it was a pretty close fight up until that point. And, you know, to be honest, I mean, she made a case for it. You know, she made a case for the stoppage being early. I want to say hello, by the way, to Daniel Kormier, who's telling me that he's watching the show from Mexico right now as we speak. Hello, D.C., hello, D.C., hola, how'stas? I invited him to call in, but I guess it's too expensive to call on from Mexico. In any event, Gus was losing the first round. I just thought they're going to give him a fight,

perhaps against the Rashad Evans, try to get him back on track, and then the winner of that fight makes total sense. I mean, Rashad rematch, you know, Bay, Excuse me, Gustafin, if he wins, I mean, it makes a lot of sense. Just after what happened between Bader and D.C., the post-fight press conference, I just thought, wow, this is perfect. You can't buy that kind of promotion. It was perfect. You never know how these things go, as I said, and you never know how these things will end up. Crazier things have happened.

People get injured along the way. Guys pull out. Who knows? Ryan Bader has put himself in that spot. He's put himself in that conversation, which is just. is something he hasn't done in the past. So now he appears to be one fight away, barring a John Jones comeback, that could set things back a little bit.

And he's certainly knocking on that door if someone pulls out. Kudos to him, though, for the way he's handling all of this. All right, let us move along. As I said, on the top of the show, I am so very excited to speak to our next guest because, A, we've been trying to have him on the show for quite some time, but B, he is a part of, in my opinion, one of the most important announcements in the history of MMA.

Now, I know fans tend to get excited or at least more excited about this guy fighting this guy. But if you ask me, and probably any other media member, not only is this somewhat of a surreal development, it's incredibly important for the future of the sport. As I said at the top of the show on Wednesday, the UFC announced that they were partnering with USADA, United States Anti-Doping Agency, to independently take over all their anti-doping efforts.

And this is a huge unprecedented deal as far as North American sports go, in particular, ones that are privately funded. And so with that in mind, we wanted to talk to the CEO of Usada, Mr. Travis Tigard, to speak about all this, where we go from here, how this all came about, and then some.

One of the most important figures in the history of anti-doping, as far as sports are concerned, and one of the most powerful men in sports, period, really appreciate his time. Travis joins us right now from Colorado. Travis, are you there? I sure am, Ariel. Thanks for having me, and thanks for those overly kind words. Oh, this is very exciting, and thank you very much for the time once again. I'd like to start at the beginning. When did the conversation, the dialogue between Usada and yourself start with UFC?

You know, it's funny. I go back to just a chance dinner I was at where, a couple of UFC fighters were also there. And I didn't, you know, Usada obviously didn't know a whole lot about the sport at all. But had a chance to speak to the fighters and had a, you know, a good conversation about the sport and what was going on in the sport. And the fighters at that point, and this was April of 2013, I guess, you know, expressed, you know,

the desire to ensure that, you know, they continue to have a level playing field and have the best preventers. regulation in place and they were a little worried, I think, with the myriad of different rules that applied to the different states and whether you're licensed in this state or that state, some of the state's commissions didn't have rules like they did in Nevada, and of course, Nevada was continuing to try to figure out how to move theirs forward to provide even a greater playing field, level playing field for athletes in a drug-free field. So it was really, I think, started around those conversations, and then,

A few fighters had come to us, both in the sport of boxing but also in the MMA context, and just said, look, we're not, we don't have all the confidence in the state commissions to do this, particularly when we have athletes training outside of the country. So is that something that you saw that would be interested in? And, you know, at the heart of it, we're here for athletes. And while it is a new sport for us, you know, we've got 48 plus sports that fall under our Olympic program roughly, we're in it for athletes, and we've got a sense that in addition to the sport wanting to take proactive steps to ensure the drug-free competition continued to go into the future, that these athletes, their rights were protected. And so it really dates, I think, to about April 2013, at least in my mind.

So when you first started thinking about the potential of working with the UFC trying to clean up the sport, et cetera, how much did you know about mixed martial arts? and in particular the UFC, and in particular, some of the anti-doping issues that they've had in the past. Yeah, we obviously knew about the sport. And in fact, it's interesting, you know, a number of our Olympic wrestlers, judo athletes, taekwondo athletes, boxers who fall under our program will eventually find them themselves going into UFC. And it's at some level a professional offering for a lot of those athletes. So, you know, the nature of the sport, the competition, combat, the physicality of it, the training, the way, and all of that is very similar to some of the sports that we currently run and have overseen since we started back in 2000.

So there's not a whole lot of difference, I think, from that perspective and running the operation. But listen, we're just, you know, our heart is for clean athletes, and we really believe and firmly believe, whether it's Olympic sport, professional sport, where athletes' rights aren't protect. You know, I said to the group of UFC athletes that I met the day before the press conference last week, I had them all raise their hand if they go into the ring to lose, and not one of them raised their hand. And then I asked them, well, okay, of course you don't go in the ring to lose. How many of you go in there to win, and every one of them raised their hand? And then I asked, well, you know, how fair would it be if your opponent had paid the referee or the umpire to call the match, regardless of what happened in the cage and the octagon to call the match in favor of the other fighter.

And every one of them raised their hand, and that would be totally unfair. And that's no different than this anti-doping drug issue. You don't, you know, there are game-changing differences that athletes can have by virtue of the drug program that could potentially be on. And it's no different than putting a concrete, you know, block in the glove to fight or having a ref called about in favor of the other person, just because they got paid off regardless of the outcome. And we firmly believe that that is the biggest injustice that can happen in a sport.

Not fair to sports fans, not fair to those that want to end up gambling on these sports, and certainly not fair, most importantly, to the individual athlete who steps into that ring with the hope that the rules are going to be enforced fairly and that they have an equal chance to work hard, to be talented, and ultimately win based on all the rules that exist. back in February, the UFC held the press conference sort of detailing their expectations and their plans to clean up the sport come July,

but they didn't announce any partnerships. This was a lot more concrete this past Wednesday. When did the dialogue begin? All right, we're actually going to get into business here. Did they reach out to you guys? Did you reach out to them after seeing the press conference? And when did it all wrap up? When did you come to terms on this partnership

that was announced on Wednesday? You know, I don't know. I want to say we had, you know, You know, maybe last in the fall, you know, we had some conversations. And I think if memory serves me and I just don't have a clear recollection of it. But I think we had a – I think we were doing about privately with the fighters. And through that, maybe the fighters introduced us to the UFC or maybe the UFC reached out. I just, again, I just don't remember.

But I know we talked last fall and sort of helped me, you know, explain who we are, what we do, why it's so important, why them having a top-down program makes all the sense in the world and how they could do it and do it right, and the importance of independence and transparency and just really trying to help educate them on the stuff we live with day in and day out. And obviously they saw the issues and knew that for both the short-term and the long-term success, being proactive on this issue made all the sense in the world. and putting in preventative mechanisms to ensure the integrity of their competition makes all the sense for the long-term viability of the sport.

And I think you have to give them a ton of credit for being willing to have that conversation. And I think we met with their offices in Vegas twice. They came out here. This was all in the last year, beginning of this year. Then we had numerous phone calls. And then once they hired Jeff Nibitsky, that to me was the first, huge step and, you know, putting action behind the talk because, you know, in those private meetings, I'm not going to go into all the detail, but they certainly led us to believe they were serious

about putting in the best program that they could. I think when they went out and hired Jeff Novitsky, a man, many people know, but, you know, utmost integrity, who similarly has a passion for clean sport and clean athletes, you know, a dogged pursuer of the truth defending the rights of clean athletes. I think that to me was an indication that they're going to put in the best program and change the culture and ensure that clean athletes have an opportunity to be successful. And knowing what Jeff did in baseball and seeing where baseball is here today, I think it's a huge opportunity for them. And once that happened, you know, we've known Jeff for a few, several years now since our first interaction back in, you know, 2003 or so around the Balco investigation.

and we were excited about the opportunity to working with him to help the athletes of this sport ensure that their rights are protected going forward. So it really all came together in earnest with rules and lower-level discussions of the complexities and appreciate, you know, given the licensing and given in some countries they're self-governed, there's a host of issues that are going to have to be overcome, and they've taken, I think, a bold and courageous step and putting a stake in the ground to say, look, we're going to, we're going to do our best to overcome those issues. A lot of them might be out of our control, you know, the state rules and how the interaction between the UFC anti-doping policy and the state

rules might ultimately play out in certain circumstances and other issues around that coordination. but they've taken a bold step to say we're going to do it. In April of 2011, you told writers this. You said, quote, not only are they not WADA code compliant, the UFC, they have fought tooth and nail not to have any principles of the WADA code. It's a joke that they claim they are trying to protect their sport with WADA policies. Make no mistake, rules that apply to the UFC and the states are horrific in comparison to the WADA code. Do you still feel that way a couple months before this deal kicks in?

And did you have, as a result of these comments, any reservations about partnering with them? You know, listen, I think, I mean, the states are a myriad of different rules, and you get outside of the U.S., you know, when I say states, I mean, the state licensing commissions. So there's just a myriad of different rules and regulations that apply. And that's unfair from harmonization and consistency, a uniform policy that, you know, mainly puts athletes in a really difficult position that they may not know, you know, what's allowed for, what's not allowed for, whether sanctions are going to be

recognized or not, whether the sanctions are a sufficient deterrent to keep people away from these drugs to begin with, whether it's, you know, a three-month suspension for steroid in some jurisdictions versus, you know, Nevada taking a lead and possibly moving up to three years for particular substances. So I don't think that's changed a whole lot, although I think you have seen Nevada and thank goodness for their leadership moving, you know, their policies and the direction of actually given athletes an opportunity to participate clean and having hoped that they can win being clean. You know, listen, it really came down to three things for us.

I mean, the action behind the words, and we saw that from the leadership, and we saw that from the rules that they've developed, and to them hiring, which, again, I think, is action, not words, hiring Jeff Novitsky, who, you know, is just a superstar for clean athletes, was really important to us and most importantly for us in deciding to be involved with this program obviously in addition to what the policy itself looked like was just this is going to help clean athletes and at the end of the day we're about clean athletes we want to protect clean athletes

and we fight hard and take on ugly dirty situations sometimes to protect the rights of clean athletes and and that's what we're here to do and we're thrilled to be given the opportunity to do that for the athletes of this sport, many of which, as I mentioned earlier, you know, came under our jurisdiction in the past and are now participating at a pro level with these sports. When you partner up with the Olympics, if you would partner up with the NBA, NFL, etc., you know, you're dealing with a league, there's a commissioner, a group of owners. This is a little different. There's essentially, you know, one ownership group.

It's a lot of people like to compare the UFC to the NFL, which I don't think is very fair because they're really one team as opposed to a group of 30. And, you know, this is an independent anti-doping policy, but at the end of the day, they are paying for it. So is it inaccurate to say that it's independent? And do you have any reservations about working for, you know, a private ownership group that is funding this? Yeah, listen, I think from an independent standpoint, it's absolutely independent in the sense that, you know, they've been removed from all involvement of the key areas of the application of the policy. So, as I said at the press conference, it's the old system of the Foxcar and henhouse is not the case anymore. They've removed themselves.

And we, you know, we weren't going to be involved with a program if, you know, the sport continued to decide all the material things that make an independent program independent or not. And that includes, you know, who is tested. So they have no involvement with that. You know, what is tested for? So when we go out to test, are we doing blood, are we doing urine? And are we doing both? Are we then doing special analysis on those samples when a person is tested? So, you know, not going out of competition, no advance notice, or critically important aspects of an independent program.

And who decides that is key. And that's us as the National Anti-Doping Organization, not the sport. We, as a National Anti-Doping Organization, evaluate the test results, including the athlete biological passport. You know, it's us that hosts the whistleblower line. And so what, you know, athletes in UFC and coaches and athlete support personnel, what they can know is if they call our, you know, 877 plate clean line, which I would encourage all of them to do, pick up the phone and call us. And this is not going to go to UFC.

They're by agreement. They have no right, and we will not be providing any information to them of, you know, the whistleblower line that comes to us. but we will take that information. And just like we did in Balco or in the U.S. Postal Services case, we're going to handle it appropriately. We're going to devote the resources that we decide to whether it's testing, whether it's doing research, whether it's retesting, whether it's investigations.

All that is done by us as the independent organization. We decide who and when to investigate and to open investigations. We then decide when a particular case is broad, whether or not it contains a positive test or not. And then maybe most importantly, the decision of sanctioning is totally removed from sport. And this is where that tension, you know, do you think Bud Sealy back in the day really wanted to, you know, sanction Mark McGuire and Sammy Sosa for their use of performance-enhancing drugs when they were going on the home run chase? Well, no, because it's counter to their business obligation, which is to put fans in the seats and raise TV revenue. that's not our obligation.

We don't want sports to fail, obviously, but we're here to protect clean athletes' rights, and if we have to bring discipline, we will fairly and evaluate the discipline and apply it to that particular athlete if they've violated the rules. And whether Slance Armstrong and gets a lifetime ban, which is totally appropriate, or a weekend warrior who maybe gets a three-month suspension for something that was a non-intentional, non-hardcore doping product, we're going to fairly apply the rules no matter the level of the athlete or what that athlete means to that particular sport. And that's the element of independence that I don't think you see.

For sure, you don't see in any other professional sport in North America, but similarly, I don't think you see that necessarily across the world either. Is this a term deal? I mean, it's like a five-year deal, 10-year deal. Is there an end to this deal? Yeah, there's definitely an end to it. You know, I think it's a multi-year deal, I'll just say that. Okay.

Okay. And a multi-year agreement and really broad strokes on, you know, basically all these functions are USADA and we're not involved with these functions. And let's say, you know, in a 365-day period, how much money do you think will be devoted to this? How much will it cost? You know, I think one of the principles at UFC announced that, you know, listen, I think it's a significant and important investment. on their part, both into the rights of the clean athletes, but also the health and safety of the clean athletes as well, ultimately to the brand itself, I think. Because I don't think people out there want to see, you know, sport that's not human competition.

And we could talk philosophically all you want about why anti-doping programs are important. You know, certainly in a combat sport, health and safety has to be paramount. But I don't think there's a marketplace, because I think we see it today. And I guess some sports, maybe professional bodybuilding has open categories. That's not what this is. And I don't think mainstream sports fans, and certainly not sports fans, I don't believe, of UFC, want to see sport that's not played by the rules that are in place and that's not done on a human natural ability versus who can find the best chemist to give you all these illegal chemicals,

is where it just becomes a circus, a freak show, not true athletic competition. So I think from a brand standpoint, it's going to ultimately benefit them in the long term. But it certainly is a significant investment. I guess what I'd say also, we're a not-for-profit organization, and as such we provide, you know, we have an independent audit that's done. We provide Congress a review of our annual report and our financials, have tax filings, and certainly any of the information flowing from this contract will be included in all of those, when we do those on a routine basis, you know, every year.

You know, there are some people in combat sports, I think of Andy Foster, who's the head of the California State Athletic Commission, who believe that weight cutting is actually a bigger problem than PED use. And I'm wondering if USADA will take a look at the problems involved of weight cutting. It's a very serious and potentially dangerous thing, and in particular the use of IVs, because from what I understand, the use of IVs to rehydrate, which is done. very often on every single card before every single fight is banned as far as the WADA code is concerned will you guys look at that are you only dealing with anti-doping no though what's important to remember is that the WADA list is

the list of prohibited substances so those you know are the what most people consider the drugs the performance enhancing drugs but it's also the prohibited substance and methods and there are certain methods like an IV infusion that you just mentioned, or gene doping, or autologous or homologous blood transfusion, where you, you know, take someone else's blood in advance of about, and it gives you, you know, oxygen-carrying capacity and recovery capacity and all sorts of benefits. It would be, by the way, game-changing benefits. So the IVs are allowed under certain circumstances under the WADA prohibited list.

You know, if you're in a hospital, clinic, having surgery, you know, if you need it outside of those, you have to apply for a T-U-E. It's not, as you just indicated, not prohibited in most of the, or any that we're aware of licensing commission. So there's going to be some education, obviously, around that. The purpose for it was to ensure, and you may have, I don't know how closely you followed our investigation in cycling, but you saw it used a lot in cycling because putting a bag of saline over a 50-millimeter, for example, which is the rule, you know, would potentially mask or alter the blood testing that was done. And there were examples in there where they would, you know,

athletes would put a bag of saline in their arm when they saw the blood collectors coming to collect their blood, you know, and they just delay reporting for 15 minutes. So that was really the purpose behind the rule. So there's going to be some education around that and ensure that, you know, where athletes do need it, if it's in, you know, an area that's not allowed. it's not in one of those other settings that they go through the TUE process, and those are going to be, as always, and we've had dozens of those applied for over the years

since it became on the list and prohibited in certain circumstances. But certainly education around both the drug list as well as the prohibit method list, like the IVs, is going to be a key part of rolling this program out and ensuring that the athletes are fully aware of what the rules are and how to comply with those rules so that there's no sort of. unintentional type violations because that's not why we're here. We're here to stop those who are intentionally cheating with dangerous performance-enhancing drugs that rob their competitors of their rights under the rules.

Again, if you would have partnered up with one of the major sports league, there would have been a process where the Players Association would have to agree to the terms, etc., etc., you know that drill. The UFC is a lot different and some have brought up, well, why weren't the fighters allowed to at least see these terms, beforehand agreed to them. Would you have preferred if that was the case or are you comfortable with the way things are in our sport? No, well, I think there was, you know, there was significant input from athletes, both through

the UFC process. But we, you know, we had a number of athletes reach out to us when this first got started and, you know, and keep in mind, many of the athletes have been under a WADA-level program run by us in the past. And, you know, we heard only support for it. And look, at the of the day, maybe there's a short-term painful process for some athletes, and I understand that, given that the rules basically, you know, it was somewhat of a free-for-all in certain areas up until now, particularly where there weren't licensing boards or, you know, those that had good programs in place. But if you want your rights to be protected and you're not going to try to cheat, you're a competitor, but it's going to come down. The ballot results are going to be

based on your hard work and your talent, then there's no reason once we fully, you know, explain and educate about this process and the benefits of as a competitor of this process, there's no reason you're going to be upset at all. In fact, as I said at the press conference, I think it's a day, you know, there are a few days to celebrate within anti-doving. Yeah. This is certainly a day for UFC fighters who value clean sport and their own health. It's certainly a day for them to celebrate. Would you like to see the commissions, in particular, Nevada, they came out with these drastic rule changes that are going to come into effect in September.

Would you like to see them get on the same page as the ones you guys outline at the press conference so there's uniformity? Do you think that will happen? Will you try to approach these commissions and say, look, this is what we had, this is our experience, this is what we think is fair? let's all try to get on the same playing field? You know, we're absolutely on the same team, right? You know, if they care about health and safety and the integrity competition, which I know they do, and we've interacted enough with, you know, the current chairman and so the commissioners there and the executive director in Nevada specifically, we're absolutely on the same team.

We've got to, you know, certainly sit down and we have. We've had ongoing conversations. You know, if those guidelines that were passed or agreed to end up becoming part of the regulations, which, you know, is a rulemaking process, so, you know, we'll see if they do. You know, we're obviously going to follow those where fighters are licensed in that state. You know, the issue for the UFC is around the world, those rules don't apply around the world, and there are other jurisdictions, both in the U.S. that have much weaker rules, and no ability, for example, to collect blood, no ability to enforce other sanctions, all these types of issues

that don't create a level good, you know, drug-free playing field for their athletes and with the inconsistency. So the idea is to have it consistent, but that's going to obviously take some time. We want to need a strong working relationship with them, and we're going to, you know, immediately begin working with those commissions as best we possibly can. And look, I'm overly hopeful that we'll get it to a point similar to some of the, you know, private bouts or boxing fights that we've done in those states. in the past that, you know, will be able to, you know, come to a good place for both sets to ultimately protect the integrity of the competition in those states and the rights of the fighters.

Two last quick questions, and I really appreciate the time. Thank you once again. How many people will be working on this? Like, what kind of undertaking is this for your team? Do you have to hire new people? Do you have any sense as to how many will be devoted to the UFC process? You know, it's an expansive process. And, obviously, Obviously, with the testing athletes living around the world, you know, 550 plus athletes will ultimately fall into the pool. And we're going to be utilizing, you know, we've already had great conversations. And, for example, with our counterparts down in Brazil, you know, a new lab is coming up, gaining accreditation down there.

So the concept is and how we do this with our Olympic program where we have international athletes who live around the world, you know, we tap into the resources. and our partnerships through independent anti-doping organizations in those countries, through the WADA accredited lab system where there's 30 plus around the world. So in-house, we're obviously going to have staff here devoted to it full-time, and there'll be a few of those, but mainly having that network of collection officers as well as laboratories, you know, are literally around the world. A lot of that current structure exists, so it will ultimately come down to how. how we distribute the 2,700, you know, plus tests in a smart strategic fashion of ultimately

where, you know, the biggest ground forces, so to speak, are going to have to be up and run. And then, of course, I mentioned the whistleblower line earlier. You know, that will depend on a lot, how, you know, frequently people pick up the phone and calls and the investigative capacity. We have current investigators at work on our Olympic program. obviously, you know, the legal team that works on our Olympic program, but we'll have to, you know, continue to ensure that we've got adequate resources to handle all that. And as I said, you know, I would encourage people listening today to pick up the phone and call us out.

The real-time information about what's going on in the sport for us to whether test, you know, monies to research, to open investigations is critically important from a deterrent, but, you know, also a detection standpoint. because we don't want athletes to feel like or athlete support personnel that they can somehow, evade testing or otherwise use products that maybe they don't believe are being tested for to give us maximum deterrence. And final thing, and this is a bit of a curveball out of left field, is it true you met with Lance Armstrong recently and is there any chance of his band being reversed? I had to ask. I'm a sports guy.

I don't believe everything you read, but there's a lot you can read out there that you can't. believe. That sounds like a non-answer to me. You know, we haven't been shy since really the beginning that we hope, we wanted Lance to come in and sit down with us, and we continue to hope that, you know, he gets to the point where he can be fully truthful with us

and answer all of our questions. And that'll be good for him and that'll be good for the sport. I think there are, if he, you know, gets to that point. And I think he's there, if not getting, awfully close. I think a lot of good can ultimately come from it. It doesn't mean any reductions or any of that's going to happen. But look, at the end of the day, you know, athletes are, the doping offenses shouldn't destroy their lives. And whether they compete again is a totally separate question. But if people can continue to provide inspiration and have a story of redemption,

then that's something we've always been in favor of. Fair enough. I had to try. I hope you can appreciate it. I appreciate it. This is fascinating. Yes, absolutely. This is fascinating stuff. I appreciate it. I look forward to seeing how it all unfolds. Good luck to you guys.

Again, very exciting for a lot of us in the media who've been talking about this for quite some time. So I wish you guys nothing but the best. And hopefully in maybe a year or so, we can have you back on the show to talk about how this is all going. Absolutely. Love to do it. Thanks for your time.

All right, there he is. Travis Tiger, the CEO of the United States Anti-Doping Agency. Very interesting comment. on the state of anti-doping in MMA and the future as they begin their partnership in July. Let's move along. One of the people, by the way, who was in attendance in Las Vegas last week at that athlete summit that they were calling is our next guest. Ovin Saint-Pru has a big fight coming up August 8th in Nashville, Tennessee. Wanted to have him on the show for a long time, and now we finally got him.

OSP, are you there? Yes, sir, I'm here. Thank you for the time. I apologize for the delay. I appreciate your patience. You were there, right, last week? Did you get a chance to hear, Travis? He was talking about meeting some athletes.

I'm wondering if you were one of them. Yeah, I was there, and it was actually pretty good. Just kind of, this time around with the athlete summit is almost on a one-on-one basis type of deal, just a small group of guys and our ladies there so they can sit down and talk to us about it, which it was quite interesting. They actually introduced the new drug policy towards us and stuff,

and I'm pretty much love what I heard. So you're one of those who say that, you know, look, this is all great. Because, yeah, I saw some people complaining, which to me was very strange. You know, you guys couldn't. And I get it. I understand that, you know, everyone wants the players, the fighters, to have a say. But I don't see many drawbacks from this. If you're a clean athlete, why would you care, right?

Yeah, that's true. I mean, I tell people, too, when I was, even in a collegial level, when I got drug tested, it's easy to do it that way just because you get everybody. the one roof. Everybody's in the same town. But, you know, we do this as a professional sport. So it's kind of hard. It's kind of hard to have, especially with mixed martial arts.

You get other sports like football, they do direct testing too. But, you know, then primarily all the football players stay within the 20-mile radius of the stadium, so it's easier to track those guys down. But mixed martial arts is a sport that, you know, with our athletes, we have to, you know, drop them down because we technically from all over the world. Right. So the way they go on the body, they're doing the best situation they can by going about going about it. You know, the situation where we have to download an app and put out address and stuff like that.

You see, that didn't bother me at all. I mean, if you're looking for me, I won't be hard to find. I mean, if I'm not in town, you just tell me where to go. And, you know, I go ahead and do that. So, because, you know, it's one of them things where they're doing everything they need to do to keep the sport clean. and, you know, that's the number one thing is to keep the sport clean. I find that this is a very interesting time for the sport and its history with this coming up, with the Reebok deal coming up.

There's a lot of changes. They're doing stuff to help you guys as far as, you know, injury prevention and whatnot. How much did you take away? What did you take away from this summit? Because I feel like, you know, in the past it's all about, you know, taxes and media training, all very important things. But now there are some, like, monumental shifts happening in the sport. Did you find that it was super enlightening for you to be there, one of the 50 people chosen?

It definitely was just because it was beneficiary. It lets you know where the UFC is going and the UFC is trying to go. As in just because of within the sport, a lot of people, it's funny. Like a lot of people want that winning niche. And I think a lot of the performance aspect about it end up coming through, I guess to use in a, you know, sports performance drugs

end up coming from, you know, improper training and overtrained. Mixed martial arts is still a fairly new sport. With that being, you know, fairly new, it can lead it to a lot of injuries. And, you know, if you have somebody in your ear, like, okay, I'm hurt, I've got to get ready for the fight. And, you know, we have fighters, we don't have a lot of money at all. And we have a fight.

Somebody come up to you and be like, I can give you something that can possibly help you out. you know, a guy might say, yeah. So, but doing the proper, but going back to, you know, what they just introduces to, you know, exos and stuff, that's tremendous. Because how many athletes do you know going to gym, don't warm up, don't have a good efficient workout, but, you know, the most biggest thing, the biggest thing about warming up is the actual cooldown of the workout.

A lot of athletes don't. I'm guilty of that myself. I go in a way, I go, and I'll do a five, ten-minute warm up. And then, you know, I'm going almost full go. I never really cool down. And they started hitting points about that. And what we do put a lot of stress and strenuous thing within our body, okay, depending how you take care of it.

So my philosophy is, you know, I can spend 66%. I can spend, you know, two-thirds of a time in the gym breaking myself down, but at least one-third of that, I've got to spend on, you know, recovery, which is, I mean, recovery can be easily as, you know, the ice path, the Hibonbury Chamber for me. seeing a deep tissue massage, getting a deep tissue massage, chiropractor. But also, recovery can be, for me, is recognizing when I'm over-training. I'm over-training, I just tell myself, you know, I need to take a dare-or-two out of the gym. That dare-a-to is not going to do anything but makes you better when you get back to the jail.

You know, you're on a role as of late, and it's so much fun to watch your progression as a fighter. Every time you fight, I'm reminded of the fact that you kind of debuted undercard of a Strike Force Nashville card. So it's funny that you're going back to Nashville now, but back in Strike Force, as you know, they would put a lot of local guys, you would be the one selling the tickets, and especially you in Tennessee. But even after that fight,

even after that win, which was an impressive one, a 47-second TKO win, you still had to bounce around a little bit until you really found your home with Strike Force. Is this all still kind of surreal for you that you're actually, you know, making a living as a pro UFC fighter, top-ranked, main eventing shows now?

Because for a while, I mean, I had a great conversation with your coach, Joey Zonar where he was telling me, like, you were taking fights that you shouldn't have been taken. You were kind of 500 in your career. It really looked like you were having a hard time finding a home and really getting on that right path. Has the novelty worn off, or is it still very much surreal where you're at right now just a few years later? You know, it's kind of, I wouldn't say it worn off. It's still a little surreal within itself, just because there's been plenty of times now where, you know, I'm just around

and people randomly come up to you and want to talk. And I'm like, you know, They'll start having a typical conversation with me. Yeah, me, I have no problem talking to anybody. I'll talk to anybody. But, you know, the way people, you're fighting, you in the USC and stuff, their eyes just lit up. And it's kind of what I have when I played football at UT. It's pretty much surreal. And, you know, it's definitely been a blessing.

It was just one of them things, too, where, you know, at a point of my career, like when you said, I actually had a record under 500. That was three and four. And that was just due for the simple fact that I was just taking fights I should never been taken in my career, you know. We didn't do. I mean, for my gym and I, a lot of it had to do with a lot of learning process and stuff.

I was the first profile to come out of there, you know. That was the first one to basically do everything out of the gym. So everything was like a trial and there with me. So that's why the guy that I actually training within my gym right now. you don't have to go through that type of deal. But, you know, at the end, everything worked out to be perfectly. I'm the number six ranked like heavyweight in the world right now and fighting the best old possession in the world too.

And your main eventing, your next fight is a main event. It's in Nashville, as I said, it's August 8 against Glover-Teshire. At one time, Joey told me he wanted to have you fight Rampage Jackson. Obviously, that's not happening, and it didn't really seem like they were all that interested. Were you disappointed when you didn't get that fight next? Not necessarily. I mean, you know, Rampage has his reason and the U.S.

has their reason, too. And, you know, for, you know, for, I guess, reputation or for just, you know, brand-wise, that fight with Rampage would have been probably better just because, you know, if he talked about particularly fighters within the past 10 decades, if you mean five fighters, you know, Rampage is probably one of those fighters. But at the end of the day, you know, my eyes is on the belt. and, you know, Glover had been there before, and he's just one of the guys that I've got to go through to actually get my, to get, for me to get a shot. And given the fact that the 205 Division is freaking wide open right now, who knows what happened within the next year.

So a little more than a year ago, you made evented your first UFC show against Ryan Bader, who we had on the show around an hour or so ago. And I feel like this is a chance for you to write that wrong because obviously, so you lost that fight, but now here you are getting to do it in Tennessee, which might bring more pressure on your shoulders, but it's a great way to forget about what happened a year ago. Do you view this fight the same way? Because that was your big coming out party. That was your big chance to main events against, you know, obviously a veteran of the sport. And let's be honest, it wasn't a great performance. I mean, it was pretty one-sided. Do you view this fight as that? It was. But, you know, I went back and looked at the fight, and it was

one-sided, but those times everything could have easily changed my way. And it's one of the things where just because of that, it just, it actually, this loss actually didn't make good because I kind of end up resenting myself.

Like, I told myself, I told a lot of people, people who were like, you know, you look sluggish, I didn't feel myself at all. I did not. You know, my training wasn't going like I wanted it to go. I was BS. and threw out my training and my whole training and so. And I just got off the, I just fought in the, actually we fought in the same card in Vancouver.

Right. And from that fight, we literally flew in the town Sunday, Monday morning. I'm getting the phone call saying I'm fighting data in Bangor. And of course there's a main event fight, so I'm going to take it. So, you know, that within itself is just a big learning experience. So, you know, I went back to doing everything. I tried, I didn't do it. I stopped doing everything that I was previously doing.

Wow. You know, I was doing a lot of, a lot of new stuff when I fought Bader. So I just went back to the basics. I went back to the boxing gym. I got my timing back on point. I felt my time was off. And all of that showed when I actually fought a, all of that showed when I fought a show gun. You know, my timing was perfect.

When I fought Cummings, my time was perfect. And my wrestling show when I fought Cummings, too. Comes in a two-time All-American. People are always going to tell me what I'm going to do about the takedown. I'm not worried about the takedown. I'm supposed to get taken down.

Now, the question is, is he going to be able to hold me down? I mean, he wasn't too successful at that. So even with Bader, previously all the guys that I fought were primarily strikers. I didn't have to worry about a wrestling. Bader comes around. He's a wrestler.

I'm not worried about nothing. You know, I'm into myself right now because, you know, I'm, what, 4 and 0, 5, and O in the UFC. I'm kind of into myself. I'm not worried about it. I'm good. Yeah. And he took me down, and that taught me a lot.

Got with a wrestling coach, John Labrondé, and we worked. We drilled. We drilled, we're constantly drilling, and that mess with that wrestling mentality started coming back, so when that started happening, that's when everything started clicking in the law cylinders for me. It's just like, my wrestling is, my wrestling is not the best, but at the same time, it gets the job done. So, you know, it's one of them things where, you know, a lot of fighters, they have

tremendous wrestling, like, obviously, like, watching, you know, Jones and the Johnson fight, you know, Johnson, not Jones, but, Corby and Johnson fight. Yeah. Watching that fight showed me a lot. Corme got caught, and when he got caught, he just wore Anthony down with the wrestling. and when he did that, Anthony really didn't have anything else. So just learning from experience, you just, when you get out of a situation, my biggest thing is, you know, you can probably, you know, taught me in certain areas,

but, you know, even striking aspect of it. Shogun apparently I had one of the best striking, you know. In Shogun, in case, he came at me too aggressively. I want you to do that. So that's my, that's when I shone is when you come at me too aggressively. You know, people, if people, I was a little, disappointed when they were

starting categorizing Shogun and I experienced the ad but it said he had knockout power over myself and you know I tell people

hands down in the two or five way class I'm probably hands down has the most knockout power as considering my hands and feet wow that's a bold statement

would you say at this point that's the greatest moment of your sporting career thus far going to Brazil and knocking out Shogun in a matter of seconds knocking him out and being the only fighter

to ever knock him out in the first round Definitely. What was that scene like? Like, what was the atmosphere like? Did you think that they would ride or was it too late? It was like 4 o'clock in the morning. I'm not going to lie. I wasn't a little nervous.

I was a slight nervous. But that environment in particular was crazy. You know, the Brazilian fab, they'll let you know what they're rooting for and I was definitely in the opposite side of the spectrum. But, you know, just that fight alone, that's probably the quietest I ever heard, you know, an arena. Like, I was yelling so loud.

I actually told myself to, okay, stop yelling because I'm yelling too loud. But, you know, usually I don't hear my coach at all. In this particular time, my coach Eric Turner, you know, he was yelling so loud. He was just like, oh, wow, I can hear everything you're saying right now. Did you see those gifts of him slipping on the skateboard afterwards online? You know, I was crazy about that. Somebody actually sent me that video, and I literally had to look at that video probably at least, I want to say at least,

I want to say four different times before I realized it was happening. And I was like, oh, it's just a knockout. And then after that, I showed him my training, I was like, hey, Eric, he threw a skateboard in the fight. And he was like, what are you talking about? He looked at it about four different times, too. And then I had a point out on him. So you don't see the skateboard right there?

But he thought that was pretty funny. That's great. By the way, do we have a couple more minutes with you? I can tell you're a little busy. Are we cool? Oh, no, no, no, no, no. We're fine. Okay, cool.

Just a few more questions I had for you. You were talking about the upper echelon guys. In your opinion, how far away are you from those guys? You know, like I said, the two-five ways left right now, it's wide open. Yeah. And, you know, with that, I fight Glover. This is no telling what's going to happen. You know, the beauty about the UFC is you don't have to be in the top.

You don't have to be in the top, you know. You don't have to have a number one contendist spot in order to do. fight for the title. It's primarily like Dana say, whatever the fight the fans want to see, that's the fight he's going to give him. So, even when even with the

fight against Cormier, a lot of people throw my name out there. And I was like, if the opportunity presented itself, I'll take the fight, but at the same time, he's just like, the fans want to see, good knockouts, and apparently I'm one of the favorites of knocking people out. It's just one of them things

where I get this fight, and I think I need one more fight and I should be good. Depending how I finish this fight, it might be after this fight. So, you know, I'm not hoping for anything, but at the same time, you know, I'm just going to go out there. Like I said, I don't care how long it takes me. It can be two years from now. It can be, you know, three months from now. You know, I'm definitely working my way up, and I'm climbing up that ladder, and that's what I'm going to continue doing.

Are you such a big deal in Tennessee to the point where you're, think you'll sell out the Bridgestone Arena? I don't know. We'll find out. You know, it's just like a lot of people know me throughout the state of Tennessee, or whether it's playing football football university of Tennessee or whether it's me currently, you know, doing everything I'm doing within the year six. A lot of people know me, so it should be quite interesting.

You know, I got a lot of friends that I went to college with us at UT. I mean, out of UT and in Nashville. You know, you got Memphis two hours away from Nashville, Knoxville, and out of half, two hours away from Nashville. You know, Atlanta's the right down the road. So I know I'm going to have a lot of friends and family, a lot of friends and family there, but I might also have a lot of, you know, E.T. fans there, too.

So if I can, I'll try to get Coach Jones to come in to come to the fights. But I'm trying to see if I can persuade him to come to the fights. By the way, were you interested? Were you introduced to MMA while you were at U.T or before that? I was actually introduced, actually, when I got through college. Oh, even after? Yeah, even after college, probably about two years after college. I just didn't need something to keep me in shape,

and just got introduced. Actually, I thought it was going to be kickboxing, but they ended up being MFA. I didn't want to fight at first, and, you know, my trainer, my trainer to this day, my trainer convinced me to fight. It kind of convinced me to fight the way I'm, think about it now. He kind of tricked me. What?

How do you do that? Man, when I first started to fight in, the state of Tennessee, mixed martial arts wasn't regulated. So I had to take my fights out of his sake. So my first MMA fight, four-ounce gloves. But when we were training, I was like, look, Eric, I don't want to get hit. And he told me, look, you're not going to get hit. If you get hit, it's not going to be hard. at all.

No, like, no, there's small gloves, but I didn't realize when he told me that. Because I was tired. I wasn't thinking. I was just, I was basically my training. I was doing the column where you ask you people rotated on you beat you. He stood me up. He looked at me. He told me, shell up, put my arms up, and he had some 18-ounce boxing gloves on

and, you know, hit me in the side. When he hit me, he hit me pretty hard. And I was like, oh, that's not too bad. He was like, that's the hardest you're going to get hit. And I, it did nothing. and kind of clicked into my head until the fight. I remember being in the cage, and when I was in the cage, I was like, these are not 18-outs gloves.

These are four-house gloves, and they look even smaller than four-out. And that's when I started looking at my, I was like, well, it's too late to turn around now. And I got my first win, an hour after the fight was over. My hands still shaking. Wow. So that kind of, yeah, that kind of did it for me. It's just like, I think this is what I want to do. right now.

So basically stuck with it. And I was just fortunate enough to have, like, good people around me. I started out my amateur career really good. My first, you know, five, six fights, my first five, six pro fights didn't start too well. But I got with my strength of conditioning coach, Nate Hoffmeister, and everything kind of basically skyrocketed from there. But to them, even the, even strike force, when I first fought for them in Nashville, they were kind of iffy about taking me, you know,

putting me on that car just because at that time I had a 500 record. But they put up my record, and they was like, what was he doing fighting these guys earlier on his career? And they're just fortunate they put me on that card when that happened, put on the show. And from there, everything just kind of blew up. I think I went that year, I went on, I think in the span of the year, I went out on an eight-fight Wednesday.

And it was excited. to this day, I tell people, like, you know, having three fights for seven weeks, a lot of people was like, wow, that's it. Okay, I had, you know, a fight every other week. I had three fights for seven weeks, you know, that been televised, and I won all three fights, and every, each fight didn't like, you know, you know, it was, uh, St. Louis and, uh, and St. Louis, they went to, you know, I actually was St. Air Force in Jackson,

challenges card in St. Louis and Nashville, Tennessee. Right. And I tell him my up. And after that, I told my trainer, I was like, I don't ever want to do that a year.

But still, he's just like, I think I'm the only fighter to ever done. Do that. And they have all three-five back. They actually didn't tell us soon. It's one of the great stories

in MMA, watching your rise, especially from where you came, you know, just a 500 fighter on a Strike Force undercard. Now here you are about to main event, your second UFC show in Tennessee against Glover to Cher.

I can't wait for it. I really enjoyed this conversation, and we could probably go a lot longer, but our time is up. Thank you so much, O'Vince. I wish you the best, and I can't wait for that fight. I think it's a lot of fun. It's a lot of fun to see you main event to show in Tennessee. Appreciate the time. We'll talk to you soon.

Thank you. Thank you for having me. All right, there he is. Ovinst, St. Peru, OSP, they call him. What a great story. He has a big fight coming up, and, you know, really, one of the better stories in MMA, his unexpected rise to main event status, contender status, and the UFC's, light heavyweight division. All right, let's move along now. You talk about a great story. A lot of

people were asking me after last weekend's UFC show in Brazil, May 30th, to get our next guest on the show ASAP, they wanted to hear from Darren Till for many reasons. Great performance, but also his post-fight interview was so entertaining to hear a guy with his accent. He's from Liverpool, England. Speaking Portuguese was entertaining in its own right and somewhat eye-opening. ever heard a take on Portuguese like that before. He's 13-0, picked up a big win over Wendell Olvera. As I mentioned, less than two weeks ago, a knockout second round victory for Darren Till, so we had to get him on the show to find out more about this, man.

I have a feeling he is a fascinating individual, wanted to talk to him right away. Darren, are you there? Yeah, I'm here. You okay. I'm doing great. Thank you very much for the time. Where are you right now? You're in Brazil, right?

No. Yeah, I'm just in Brazil at the moment So a few years ago, when was it? 2012, 2011, you left England to move to Brazil You have not... When was it? 28th of December 2012 2012

You have not been back since, right? No, I haven't left. Why is that? Why didn't you go back home to visit your family? Because I'm chasing a dream And until I achieve it, I got to just stay full focused on what I'm trying to live. Why did you leave in the first place?

Because, you know, there was a lot of destruction there for me. You know, I wasn't able to chase my dream properly and my family didn't support me. And, you know, I just wanted to get away and just be totally focused on being the best and coming to Brazil. I've managed to really focus on what I want. You said your family did not support you?

They didn't want you to do this? No, it's not. Like, my dad, he would give me support, but my, you know, my mom would always tell me, like, darling, you need to go get a proper job, and this fighting stuff isn't going to wear to you. You know, you need to stop it and that. And it was just never the support, you know, like, I needed, I just wanted to be alone from all. I didn't want to hear that, you know what I mean? So up to now, I hope I've proved my family long.

Well, have they conceded that point? Have you talked to them, especially since you made your UFC debut in won and looked so good? have they admitted that they were wrong? No, of course, but I always speak to my family. Like, we've never, like, had any bad blood together, but it's just like, you know, they never truly understood. I could be one of the best. Like, they always thought it was just, you know,

a kid chasing a silly old dream that he couldn't achieve that. They didn't, they didn't ever see me in the gym grind and out of the workouts or they didn't fully understand. until I come to Brazil and I started knocking people out and then they fully understood like, oh my God, maybe I saw and all, you know, maybe that until can be the best. And now they understand.

Did they watch your UFC debut? Yeah, everybody, the support's been unbelievable. I didn't expect it. I think 50% of the whole of England, watch my fighting, 50% of the whole of Brazil, just supporting me, you know what I mean? So when you got to Brazil, did you speak Portuguese? Did you know anything about the language?

Sorry, I didn't catch that? When you got to Brazil, did you know anything about Portuguese? Did you know how to speak Portuguese at all? When I got to Brazil? Yeah. No, I didn't even know how to say hi. I love it. I love that you're fluent in Portuguese now.

I think that would make you very popular and endearing to the Brazilian people, right? Well, of course. I respect the equity in their language. You know, some guys here make jokes that I speak better

than some of the people who live here. And you met your wife who is Brazilian as well during this time away from home, correct? Yeah, well, my initial, my initial point

was to come here for six months and to get a feel of the life here. And in this six months, all what happened, I had two fights. I met, I met my girl and why in the six-month time limit, she got pregnant.

So at this point, there was no going back home. It was, you know, it was like, I was going to say it. It was like another struggle to make me more focused and change the dream even more when she got pregnant, you know, and to be more of a man. How did you support your family? I mean, I'm assuming you're not making a lot those early days. How are you making money? Well, when I was here, I'd saved up enough for the six months. And then I think it was in the fourth month.

There was four months mark that she got pregnant. And then I really just said, well, what can I do? What talents I have? And obviously, I've been fighting my Thai since I was 10 years and age. So I, Brazilian's love my Thai. So I said, okay, I'm going to go out there and start teaching private classes in my Thai. And I've managed to build myself up to 10 students now who pay personal classes with you. and it keeps me living okay.

I can pay my bills. I can pay all of the school fees for my daughter and make sure that my family have a good life here as well as chasing this dream to be the best. I was reading your UFC bio, and in that bio it said that you started fighting as a teenager in order to, quote, beat people up. Is that accurate?

No, that whole bio was not written by me. That whole bio was written by a guy from one of one, one from the gym, he was speaking to the UFC at the time because I didn't have contact. I think I can't remember it in the week of the fight. You know, it was a lot of, I was going around to get medicals and lose weight. And I think he just said any old thing to them, but that wasn't me. Okay, because the other thing is it asks, do you have any heroes and you list yourself? The answer is myself.

Is that not true? That's actually true. I don't have any heroes. If I were to say, it would be me. Wow, you never looked up to anyone I've had my Grandad's been You know, I've always watched films

I love the Rocky films But, you know I want to create myself around me I don't want to create myself About anyone Because I can't be like the next I'm going to be the next I'm going to be the next down and tell

So, you know I can't look up to everyone I have to look to myself And be the best I can make You come across as a very confident young man Is it accurate to say that, you know, despite the fact that you're just won and on the UFC, you took a a final short notice, you consider yourself one of the very best welter weights in the world

right now already? Well, you know, I did an interview usually, and the guy was asking, like, about the same question. I told the guy said, I would say, I would never challenge a guy like, he's a champion now, Bobby Waller, right now, because I'm in no position to do that. That would just be disrespectful. That guy completely, you know what I mean? Like, you know, that guy's way.

whole life. He's been fighting since I was in NAPIS. I wouldn't do that. So at the moment, I'm just, I'm a nobody in the next. My conscience, you know, I have to tell myself every day that I am the best. So to that question, yeah, I am the best welter in the world. You took the fight on short notice, just 10 days notice. And of course, when you're in your position, especially someone who moved away and you're living in Brazil and all that, and the fights in Brazil, so that must have helped to a degree. Did you have any reservations? Because, you know, sometimes the call doesn't come. You, you were, you were, ready to go right away?

No, I was ready. I just fought two weeks before that fight. I just captured the Brazilian title in Brazil. I was the Brazilian champion against a very good fighter. He's a shootbox guy. He's very tough. And they call him to fight this guy, Wendell. And Wendell was actually ranked number one in Brazil for a good few years.

He, you know, he destroyed guys in Brazil. And I knew I could knock him out. I knew he could beat him. I knew he couldn't take the down. And, you know, he's too slow. there was no way he could have handled me. And still, I didn't get to show my full potential. Obviously, I've already said it would be dressed.

You know, I wasn't nervous. I'm not going to like. You know, I was scared, obviously, like everybody is. But I knew that I could go in there and I could finish him. And it was easy to finish him. It was easy. Yeah, it was easy. It wasn't hard. I loved your reaction when you did finish him, though, because for a second,

it almost seemed like you couldn't believe like it was actually over. Like, you actually did what you were dreaming of doing. Did you have that reaction? know after the fact, but it was like almost like you couldn't believe it. Yeah, well, I exactly had that record because I think after the second level, you know, I don't know if the referee, like, clocked on to it, but he was, he was like completely out. I'm not going to stop until I know the first come in, but then after the third and then the fourth one missed, I'm like, I was thinking, I'm a man, if you need to stop this

or I'm going to destroy this guy's face, so I sort of stood up and I was like, you know, just waiting for the rest of jumping. I knew he was going to trip, but I was sort of unsure. I don't know how the rest was seeing it, you know what I mean? And then you kissed your cornerman. Is that not accurate? No, I don't know what I'm saying? It looks like a kiss. I think I did kiss him on the lips.

Like, I don't know. I hope my girlfriend doesn't get jealous about that. No, that's fine. I don't think, I mean, you're a very happy man, but it did look like a very nice embrace that you two had. Well, my coach over here, myself, obviously my coach back in New Colin, we have like a great race

he said you know what I mean he kisses everybody who's on the team before every train and after everything he kisses on the side of the chief and Marcelo de way he's he's a 100% guy you know I mean

I have total respect for him and total respect from my coach calling back home because without them to guys I don't know what I'd be doing you know what I mean maybe I wouldn't listen to my mom and I'd be working at a 9 to 5 job now that I would hate

so you know I can only just funked them for it. And what about all this talk that you have a tattoo of Paige Van Zant on your arm? I mean, this is crazy stuff. Let's set the record straight here. It's not Paige Van Zandt.

It's the mother of your child, right? Is she your wife or your girlfriend? Yeah, the mother of my child. It's not Paige Van Zandt's the mother of my child. You know, I think I did an interview stuff. It's just a nice remembrance. I don't know what I was going through my head when I was done it for. I was just like, yeah, you know, I ain't going to buy it any present.

I'm just going to put a tattoo on me. I just see if she likes it. She doesn't split her totally because then I'll have to make her into a devil top to you all night. Did she like it? What was her reaction when she saw it? She cried. She cried. She cried.

She loved it. Because, you know, she's, I don't know. I say to people, I don't know what she's still doing with me. Like, you know, I'm a crazy little guy. She's the most loveliest person I've ever met in my life. Wow. So you don't regret it. I mean, do you think it's a little weird to have a big face on your arm?

No. I don't care. No. No, I don't care. I honestly don't care. So, you know, the biggest question I received... Go ahead, sorry. Sorry, no, you can skip.

Sorry, I was finished. I was saying the biggest question that I received after your fight, because a lot of the English fans were very excited about your performance was, and then they stated it this way. All right, that's all well and good, but you need to find out the answer to this question. This is the most important question for us. Is he a red or is he a blue?

Yeah, I see this on Twitter. I used to play football, and I was good football. but I'm a red. Okay. So that means you are a supporter of the Liverpool Football Club, right? Yeah, I'm a supporter. Yeah, they've been my team since I was a kid, so I'm a red, yeah. You're not a supporter of Everton.

This is a big rivalry in Liverpool. I'm assuming a lot of people are asking you this. A lot of people are going to be like, oh, I can't believe he's a red because it's a big rivalry. You know, I'm a red pool. I don't really give, I don't give two shit about the football. You're done with that. Yeah, you know, it makes me angry when I see football players taking a lot of money home

and fight with the children to pay the bill, so I'm not really bothered about football anymore. Why do they call you Liverpoolian scousers? Sorry, my... What? Isn't a nickname for people from Liverpool as a scouser? I hope I'm pronouncing it correctly. Yeah, I'm a scouser.

It's the tone of my voice. I'm a scouser. What does that mean, scouser? It's from years back, years and years and years ago It's actually, it's together with the Irish descendants In Liverpool who are Irish descendants You know what I mean And when everybody came to Liverpool

They would make this I don't know how you guys would say A kind of Spoo You know what's Spoo? Spoo And Liverpool they would make They would put like these different kinds And like dumplings

And be beaten it and the name of the street, it was called a pan of a cows, and that's where we got our name from. Wow, that's amazing. And obviously because we're all, like, everyone here's the scouts are like, like, cheeky, you know what I mean? They have a cheeky tone to the voice. They're very cheeky characters, Scouts.

Everybody likes, you know what I mean? Do you miss home? Sorry? Do you miss your home in Liverpool? Do you miss your family, your friends? Yeah, I miss my family, I miss my friends. you know, I want to live between both Wales, obviously, three Wales, because I want to have, I want to be able to train in America, Brazil, and England.

You know, I'm going to plan to go back. At the moment, you know, this fight for me, I just don't want to remember this fight from last night. It's all for me it's not sufficient anymore. I just started back on training today, you know, I've got to just, I have to be the best, I have to be trained, I have to be focused. So, for me to go back, maybe I would lose a bit of focus. I don't know.

So here for me in Brazil, I know a lot of Brazilians go to America, but Brazil, for me, is a place to stay. When do you want to fight again? And do you have any idea against who? I don't. If Joe's still asking me to fight tomorrow, I'll fight. I don't care if you ask me to fight in three months. I want to fight it soon.

Obviously, I want to have a long camp. I just want to be in good shape. training shape-wise and strong. So they call me the fight in like three months. I'm ready, and I'm going there to knock someone else. But if they ask me to go fight out, yeah, I'll go there, and I'll knock someone else again. It doesn't matter, you know what I mean?

I caught you saying camp and then correcting yourself because you have said that you don't believe in training camps, right? No, I don't believe in training camps. You know, I think the guy always has to be involved, and I've been allowed a lot of fighters. I know I'm only 22, but I have got like 12 years experience already. and I've had a lot of fights. But I see fighters who have fights

and then take three months off to go and eat lots of junk and drink and not evolve on this time. So I believe after every fight, I think the maximum is two weeks. And I think you shouldn't be back to the trail, but you should definitely be back in the gym working on weaknesses and evolve.

And you can never stop evolving, you know what I mean? So I don't, my camp is all year round. Obviously, Christmas comes, you know, two weeks off, absolutely good times. Obviously, this fight last night. I had the whole week off to recover and, you know, just cheer with my day because I had to see her. But the camp is all, you know, and I have to be evolving, you know what I mean. So you made your amateur debut in 2010, and obviously you haven't lost amateur professional.

I'm wondering prior to that, was there a guy, like, were you a Bispin guy? Were you a guy like, oh, I want to follow this career path? I want to, I want to be like this guy. I want to fight like this guy. Are you really one of those people who doesn't look up to anyone, doesn't try to emulate anyone? You're your own person. You know, because anyone who I ever looked up to do or I ever admired, I want to be better and I wanted to beat them. So I always remember when I lived in Thailand, there was a Thailand guy, his name, his Godson, he's a beast.

He's an absolute beast, but he was in my way question. He is, like, admired all over there. But I always remember, like, admire him just thinking, I want to beat, I want to, I want to knock this guy out. So I just didn't have that hard. anyone who's at a goal, I just told I want to fight them and I want to be back with them, see if I come, you know what I mean? You're not out of a disrespect,

because that's the way I am. I have to be the best, so I admire myself. I respect it. I think that, I think I respect it. I also wouldn't be surprised, by the way, if the UFC comes to England in the near future, especially near where you're from, if they put you on that card, and that's going to be interesting.

That'll almost be a reason for you to come back home and, you know, reconnect with me. maybe some of your family members. I think that would be a fascinating story. Of course. Right? I mean, what a story that would be? Oh, my God.

That would be amazing. We do have an arena in the little. I know it's small. I think it's 15,000. But I can guarantee if the UFC did go there. You know, whether it would be from me or somebody, that place would go crazy. Like, Scouts, they are true, true supporters. Like, I can guarantee Dana would be saying, well, I ain't saying on this.

Because they are true supporters. Yeah, a lot. A lot of them... You know, I don't know. Yeah, a lot of them were saying, we must have you on the show. You must... They're very excited about you, and I'm sure for you, it's been somewhat, you know, crazy, right? I mean, all of a sudden, you know, you're fighting these local shows in Brazil,

and all of a sudden you're in the UFC, and people are very excited about you. Of course, it's, you know, since last year, I can't believe... I'm not going to say we like change, but the way, you know, people... It's just, it's crazy. It's like you get to the UFC, you know, a lot of things do change. and people are like, the people are, I've never used Twitter. I'm like, no, this week I've been on Twitter all week. Guys were asking me if I can get on the guard to go card.

If I can, you know, if there's going to come to the drive card, answer these questions. Obviously, it's just crazy, man. It's just, the UFC is a place to be. It's just, it's unbelievable. And, you know, I'm going to have a long career in New Jersey. I'm in now, and I ain't going back out. There's no way.

There's no way. Well, Darren, great to meet you for the first time. Congratulations on your success up until this point. What a debut for you. A great story. I really love this story, and I wish you nothing but the best to both you and your family in the future.

It's going to be a lot of fun to watch you as a fighter in the UFC. Again, thank you for the time, and we'll talk to you soon. Thanks for the support. Okay, bye, anytime. There he is. Darren Till, joining us from Brazil, just picked up his first win in the UFC.

A guy to watch, a name to remember, no doubt about that. Looking forward to watching him grow inside the octagon. All right, let's move along. as I mentioned, UFC 188. Amir five days away. We are five days away from finally seeing the return of Kane Velazquez. He has not fought in 20 months, 20 months.

And finally, he is going to fight Fabrice Over Doom to unify the UFC heavyweight title. Javier Mendez, head coach, owner of the American Kickboxing Academy, is already in Mexico. In fact, I think Kane ditched him for the day. Let's talk to Javier, and maybe he's a little lonely, so he's, very excited about this interview. Haveyer, are you there? Yes, I'm here, and thank you. You made my day.

Did he ditch you? Isn't he in L.A. right now? Yes, he's in L.A. doing, you know, whatever he has to do to get the interest going on these fights, whatever the U.S. he has him doing. I'm sure it's an all-day affair, so, you know, him and Fabrice are out there, you know, doing their little interviews. So what are you doing, just roaming the streets of Mexico City? Yeah, I've been roaming the streets of Mexico City looking to get, you know,

seeing if I can get in trouble and things like that, but it's been very peaceful here, you know. It's actually very nice, you know, I was pleasantly surprised. How long have you been there for? We've been here on Sunday, May 31st, so that puts us at, what, eighth day now today? Yeah. I think it's eight days, yes. And, you know, typically, let's say when you have, you know, Cormier fighting or Josh Thompson-Khabi, I mean, you don't have to go to a place, you know, within the United States or Canada two or so weeks beforehand. Tough for you to leave the gym and be there for all this time?

Yeah, you know, it does at times get really tough, but the only saving grace for me is that everybody knows how close Kane and I are. So when I have to leave for Kane, I think the majority of the team is okay with it. Okay. You know, although I try not to, you know, ignore anyone, you know, no, no, no, no, no, what's going on there? Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, please, sorry. Yeah, no, I'm in a service, right. I wish I understood, uh, I wish I understood Spanish. Okay, thank you.

Sorry, Ariel, my Spanish is getting better. Yeah, I was super impressed. Wow, what were you talking about? I know. Hey, I'm more impressed with myself all the time. I'm going, son of a bitch. I actually, I'm getting good at this. Where were you born, by the way?

I was born here. That's the sad part. Yeah. Don't laugh about that, though, okay? So this is a homecoming for you, right? Well, you know, I kind of look at the U.S. is my home, but, but, But I take pride in the fact that I'm Mexican. But, but U.S. is my home.

That's where my old life has been. I'm proud to be a Mexican. But, you know, honestly, I'm an American more than I am Mexican. Do you still a family there? And I am proud to be Mexican. Do you still a family there? If I do, I don't know. Okay.

You know, it's funny that they're in L.A. And Verdum, I believe, is in Miami doing media, because I've talked a little bit about this, but now, you know, it obviously comes to light. I feel like this card has really flown under the radar, possibly because there have been so many fights as of lights and big ones, UFC 187, which you were a part of, of course, for Daniel Cormier. This is a big deal.

This, to me, is one of the most fascinating UFC heavyweight title fights ever, period. And it's the return of Kane. It's 20 months in the making. I mean, I don't need to sell you on this fight, but do you kind of feel like this one is kind of crept up on people and really not gotten the attention that it deserves? Oh, 100% It's crept under the radar

And, you know, let's face it, Ariel, it's because he hasn't fought in a while And people are not believers That he's actually going to be fighting, so, you know, there's a lot of interest lost in that And rightfully so, you know, until he can come back and continue to fight healthy And do what he's been doing,

then people have faith, but right now, you know, 70% are getting faith in himself, but I'm sure 30% are still going on air Is he going to make the fight? Well, see, you know, and you can't really blame the faith. fans, that's what fans do, you know.

You know, it's not personal. It's just, it's a sport, you know, and I feel very good about this fight, but, you know, I can understand why there's not as much attention. I have said that if someone doesn't have a fight booked or, you know, just doesn't defend their title in a 365-day period that UFC needs to move on. I know that probably wouldn't make you very happy, but I'll own up to it. I'll tell it to your face, or at least over the phone. Am I crazy for thinking that?

No, you're not crazy for thinking that. And my only thought on that is, you know, as long as when the champion is healed, he's able to fight for that title again, I think that that would be fair. I 100% think that would be fair. I don't think it's unfair to say that because, you know, a champion is supposed to be representing the UFC or the world, and it's supposed to be defended it once or twice a year. It's if you're not defending it, then, you know, I can't disagree with it. Sure, it's not a good thing for me to know if my champion is no longer a champion.

but I think it's fair. I mean, I think it's fair. As long as, like I said, when he's healthy, he gets to fight for the title. Like example, John Jones, you know, unfortunately for him and the demons he has to deal with, the poor guy has to get his act together. But when he comes back, he shouldn't have to fight anybody but the champion because he was the rightful champion before he left, you know? I agree.

So he should, without a doubt, no matter who it is, when he comes back, whether it's five years, 10 years, I think he gets a crack at the title because he never lost. it to the fight. He lost it outside of the fight. And that being said, Daniel Cormier, by no doubt, is 100% the real champion because it's just like when Muhammad Ali, when they tripped him of his title because he refused to go join the forces, you know? And does that make the person that took it when Ali, when they stripped it from him, not the real champion? Of course, that guy was the real champion. But Ali got to fight for it when he got back.

I love how this all of a sudden turned into the D.C. defensive. We'll get to him him in a second. But I get, I love it. I appreciate. I get how you work sometimes. I appreciate that very much. So everyone who's ever trained or been in the same gym as Kane speaks of him glowingly, says he has cardio for days, he's a beast, he never gets tired, he's so strong. I mean, really, they talk about him like he's a freak of nature. And I'm assuming at some point, you know, that all comes back, you know, even if you're away for quite some time, you'll get that back. But how has the mental side of things taken a toll on him to be out of the, to be out of for so long before that last fight in Mexico

to have to pull out, go under the knife once again. Was that the real challenge here to get him back, focused, and believing in himself? Because I would imagine that there were some mental roadblocks there along the way. Well, the thing with Kane is he's very quiet. He doesn't tell you how he feels. You've got to bring

it out of him. So I've had little chats with him about it and I've said, you know, I know it's got to burn you up, you know, wanting to get back in there, he goes, you know it does. But he doesn't voice-ly, he doesn't vote, he's not vocal about it. He's very quiet about it, but he definitely, he definitely, definitely hurts him and he definitely, he definitely wants to be out there fighting, because he loves to compete. He, you know, he loves to win. He loves to

compete, and he loves to win, and that's what he loves to do, and until he, that desire to stop competing and stop winning, with as long as I still with him, that guy's still going to beat up everybody. You know, you told Dave Meltzer recently of MMAFighting.com that Verdume has no chance against Kane, and I'm curious, obviously you're confident and you've every right to be. But I feel like this is his toughest test as heavyweight champion, considering how good Verdum is on the ground. You take him down off his back. He's very good. He's turned into a fantastic striker, a much more all-around fighter than he once was. Why do you feel like he has zero chance against your guy? Well, by saying zero chance, it's not really an actual

statement, true statement. I would say he has little chance. You know, the bottom line is, from when I reviewed the Mark Hunt fight, Mark Hunt was beating him on the stand-up. The first round thrashing him somewhat on the ground. What was you submitting Mark Hunt? Is Mark Hunt some great jiu-suitz guide? No. Why was Mark Hunt able to do what he's able to do with him? Because Mark Hunt's a tough fighter, you know, and Cain's above that as far as the grappling area, and as far as the arsenal that Cain has is by far higher than just about anybody

in the division. On top of the fact that nobody can deal with the pressure that Cain puts on everybody, Nobody could. Even when I have him go light, five rounds, Ariel, they can't handle it. The guys are like, after two rounds, they're like huffing and puffing. Like, son of a bitch, just can't get this guy off of me. And we're talking light. We're not talking about all out. Right. So how are you going to deal with that in a real fight?

Here's this guy who's going to continue. That's his game. And like I told him, I said, you know, Kane, I want you to continue. We're going to continue to build pressure on people until we can find someone that can change that. Then we'll change our plan. But right now there isn't nobody out there that can stop that pressure. sure. And you know what? Outside of JDS and JDS has got a while before the fans will believe in that, that to me is still the second toughest son of a gun out there. And I think JDS could be a great champion in his own right if King Velasquez wasn't around.

So you think as far as challenges are concerned, this is below JDS? Oh, for me, yes. For me, 100% yes. When every time we fought JDS, man, my mind was going, oh, crap, okay, I can't screw up. I got to be on point. I got to make sure we don't screw up because one move with that guy and you're out. And all three fights I was that way. The first one was the most nerve-wracking because, you know, he couldn't wrestle. But even regardless of that, regardless of whether he couldn't wrestle, JDS, you know, hey, he still landed that shot. We can't forget that. And I'll never forget how great of a fighter JDS is.

And I'm sorry, but, you know, Fabricio's good. And I don't take nothing away from him. He's really, really good. But he's not JDS. And there's no one out there, in my opinion, that I see that it's at the level of JDS. There isn't. So you guys...

That's from my perspective. Sure, of course, and we respect that. You came early to Mexico. For Doom has been there for quite some time. What's the, you know, what's the transition like? The altitude, all that. I mean, does it take a few days to really get used to it? Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. I mean, yeah, originally I told him, okay, we need to go in early. He goes, nah. Nah, no, no, no. We're going early. He goes, no, I go, yes, you are. You're going early. He goes, no, I go, yes, you are.

And he goes, oh, no. All right, then goes, I'll go at least 14 days earlier ago. All right, we need at least 21 days, but all right, I'll take, I'll take, because you're special in your cardio, I'll take 14 days. And you know what? It's a good thing we did because it, that altitude is going to kill you if you're here five weeks before. I feel sorry for those guys that haven't been traded in high altitude.

They come down here. Five weeks, five days out, oh, man, second, third round, oh, boy, they're going to be in trouble. So will this not be cardio cane? this will be cardio cane because regardless he always has it amazing yeah you know that's something you can't take away from him it's not like he goes out there and

he does a ton of cardio he's just he's got the lung capacity of a marathon runner a little guy that's what he has you know he's got the drive he's got the drive like a Terminator you know it just doesn't stop it's amazing when you talk about the greatest fighters currently and of all time his name is left out as you mentioned because he hasn't been as active

that's one of the great travesties i think of the last few that we just haven't seen him in his prime. Is Kane Velasca's injury prone or just had bad luck? Well, let's just look at it different ways, okay? It could be considered bad luck. It could be considered that maybe we need to get better as coaches, like Dana stated. And I think that Dana was correct and some of what he was saying because we as coaches owe it to our fighters to pay attention more.

And, you know, now I have somebody with me that's an ace in the whole. that I didn't have before in Tony Castro, who understands the body and he's, uh, Kane's personal trainer and powerlifting coach. And he looks at him. He pays attention. He'll tell me, Tony, say, hey, Kane's a little tired. This. Cain's needs this.

And you know what I do? I take the clue from the professional and I work around it. Before I didn't have that. So, you know, Dana is, you know, making those statements. I thought that was wonderful. And if anybody looks at it as negative, then they turned the negative into a positive instead of a positive. I looked at the negative and turned into a great positive,

so I was very thankful for the comments that he made because it actually, you know, it made me look at things harder and it made me pay more attention, you know, and I should be because these kids are their careers, you know. We need to watch them and we need to care for them, and I'm the head coach, you know, it's my responsibility to look at these things and have these kids and sit down and talk to them. So, no, it's a really good thing.

And so, you know, it's unfortunate for Kane. I mean, two of the fights he had his injuries were in the, fight itself. So, I mean, what can you say? I mean, you know, he got injured in the Brock Lesnar fight the one shoulder and he got hurt in the JDS fight and the other one. And then the other one where he screwed up his knee, you know, I had a professional, supposedly a professional football conditioning guy that was showing me, hey, Hob, I got these drills and, you know, they'll really work. We do it in football, pro football, this and that. So I'm sitting on the ring with Hershal Walker talking, not paying attention. And Hershal Walker says, hey, Hobb, you know,

the drill they're doing there, it's not good for the knee. I go, what? And all of a sudden, as soon as he said that, I hear this, ah, there goes Kane's knees. So I'm like, you know, so again, you know, injury prone, stupidity. So you can call me stupid for sure because, you know, I should inquired more about the specifics of what they were doing. And but now, you know, I'm on track. I keep learning all the time. So it's a lot of everything.

Will you do less sparring? D.C. said he sparred 40 rounds with Kane in the three weeks leading up to the Anthony Johnson fight. Is that too much? Well, D.C. did some hard sparring, but he did a lot of sparring, too. So it all depended on his body. If D.C. was ready to go, you know, 15 rounds that week, let's say, then he would go 15 rounds. But we didn't. We didn't. We didn't do that. We listened to D.C.'s body. At D.C., how do you feel today? What do you want to do?

He goes, oh, you know, I can do three rounds, and I'll do two rounds. Like, okay, that's what we do. What do you want to do today? Oh, I want to go five. Okay. But listen, I don't just listen to him. I look at his body, too, because it's not like I listen to them and we just do what they say, no. I have to say, no, you're not. No, you're not. You're only doing this. And sometimes I have to fight with my guys.

Literally, I have to tell them, shut the F up. You're doing what I'm asking you to do. And it does happen. You know, but, you know, I do leave it up to them, but if I notice their bodies beat up or something, I won't leave it up to them. You know, I've been that way forever. What do you make of the decision to go with Alexander Gustafson

for D.C. as opposed to Ryan Bader? I think it sucks for Ryan Bader. Ryan Bader's earned that shot. I think that nobody else has earned that shot. I think he's earned it, and I think he should be the guy, but I'm not the one calling the shots, you know, and I think hopefully Ryan gets a favorable fight, and then he'll get the shot because I think that he deserves it.

You know, I think he deserves that shot. I think he's worked for it. I think his record speaks for itself. And I think Gustafsson, yeah, no granted, you know, Gustafsson, you know, he probably will get another shot too, or he's getting it, but I'm saying that I thought Ryan Bader deserved that shot. And just out of curiosity, what has Daniel Cormier, UFC light heavyweight champion, been to hang out with, to be in the gym? Has he turned into another guy?

Is he stuffing it in everyone's face? Is he insufferable? What's it like? Well, I haven't really seen that because that's true. In Mexico. That's right. But I would say, I will tell you this, I would say 100% he's going to stuff it in the guy's faces. Yeah, for sure.

He's going to take every chance to rub it in everybody's face because that's who he is. I mean, he's a jokester. He doesn't mean it. He's a great team captain, and, you know, there's never a dull moment when he's in the gym, but he's never a dull moment. Chabeev Naramagh Madov, another one of your big stars. How's his rehab going? Do you have any idea?

It's going good. You know, he's just had a baby. Not he, his wife just had a baby, and he's very happy. So everything's going good. And his other training partners, Islam, they just fought on the same card. D.C. Fadde. That kid's, he's the next blue chipper coming out. that it's going to be a star.

And, you know, they're doing great. He's doing great. You know, he'll be coming back to the rehab in Vegas, and then he'll be training with us for a little bit. They're going back home. And then when he gets the word on, when the U.S. he wants him to fight, and they'll go, he'll get ready for the fight.

You know, you mentioned Habib and Islam, and, of course, you have Luke Rockhold, who's now getting a title shot in D.C. and C. and C. The future for A.K.A. is incredibly bright. But was there a time, you know, towards the end, with Fitch and Kostchek and Swick and all those guys where you were wondering like where where where where are we going to keep this thing going were you ever worried about that?

I'm always worried about that. I'm worried about that still now. I really know that we're set we're already set for at least another three four years right but I'm worried about the next five six years. I want to do this the rest of my life. I don't consider this work it's more love so I'm always constantly looking out or trying to build a next young guy that that's got that potential that that in other words that that that that that gem that doesn't know he's a gem and then polish him up and you know I can't make anybody a champion but I can definitely identify a champion and put him in the right right areas where he needs to work so yes I'm always constantly looking

for that next one because I'm not I'm not just focusing on these guys I'm looking for the next one so I always continue to do that so you're very confident going into this 188 main event are you as confident when when when when Rockhold fights Wydenman uh I'm I'm More confident than ever with this one. Yeah. With which one? Rockhold? I'm very confident with Rockhold, but, but, but, Widenen is another animal.

Come on, dude. That guy is unbelievable. He is, that guy's got everything, too. He's got wrestling. He's got stand-up. He's got mental. He's got cardio. What doesn't, what doesn't Wydenman have?

Yeah. He's, come on, that guy is badass. So, you know, I'm not putting Fabricio and then Rockhold in the in a category. No, I'm not. Okay. The only guy I put in that category is JDS. Okay. That's the only one of them.

And that people get upset about that soft luck. That's the way I feel. I think JDS is still a great fighter. And I think he's still the greatest challenge for Kane Belasquez. As long as Kane is where he's at and JDS is still fighting, that's still the, right now, from everybody I see, that's the biggest challenge. But unfortunately, it's going to take a while for people to buy into that. But that's my belief. Okay, let's go on the record before we let you go.

Are you going to get some tacos, burritos? What do we got? Did you eat already? It's only 215. Oh, you know, I first, when I came over here, I thought, hey, yeah, Mexican food sucks, you know, because in the U.S. So I'm like, going, and Kay's like going, dude, you're crazy. Some of the best food I go, bullshit, that sucks. And guess what?

You can't stop. I'm the idiot. I'm the idiot. Kane's right. It's awesome food over here. It's not like over there in the States where it's the chips and the salt mouth. Whole entirely different. I was blown away.

I go, what an idiot I was. What are you guys doing training in the, I see these pictures on your, on your Twitter. the way, your Twitter is my favorite Twitter feed in MMA because you're constantly retweeting MMA fighting articles, so we appreciate that greatly. But what are these gyms that you guys are training in? They look like they're a movie set, like

of an old gym. Yeah, it's one of our guys that used to come train with us, Juan Phoenix. He's got a union mat. It's his own gym, and he says, and I wanted a private place where no we can get private training. And so when we got there, I was like

looking around and go, holy shit, this is definitely Spartan all the way. And Kane loved it. The guys loved it. They loved the atmosphere and this hardcore training. It's legit. Some people were thinking that, oh, it's Bush, it's just a prank. No, no, we were training there. We were training there, and

it was incredible for us because we had all the privacy we wanted, and we were able to do we want, but you also had to be very careful because one wrong move, and you can get hurt there because you'll land in the cement or something. Yeah. Okay, let's go on the record. How does Kane win? Well, I can't predict how he's going to win.

I can just tell you this. He's going to win every round. It's either going to stop him or he's going to beat him of his life. He's never going to get beat. If he makes five rounds, he's going to get beat up worse than JDS. I tell you that. I say that and it will happen. Wow.

Now I'm even more excited. It's a fight worth talking about, and I'm surprised it's not getting more attention. I hope that changes in the coming days. Can't wait to get to Mexico. Can't wait to be there. Can't wait to take it all in. it's going to be a great atmosphere when King Velasca has finally returns. Have you are. Thank you so much for the time.

I know you're very busy on this Monday over there. You've got a pack schedule, so I appreciate you you fitting us in, and we'll see you very soon. Again, good luck in the fight, and thanks for coming on today. Can I plug somebody? Go ahead. Plug away. I want to plug away affliction. Tracy has for hooked me up with the great clothing. I didn't have to buy any clothes to come to Mexico. So thank you, Tracy.

Wonderful. I appreciate that as well. All right. Thank you very much. Have your on. Good luck to you guys. All right. Bye-bye. There he is. Javier Mendez, owner, head coach over at the American Kickboxing Academy. Huge night coming up for them. Saturday night, UFC 188, title versus title, Kane Velasquez versus Fabrice Radium. All right, let's move along. One of the very big stories, and speaking of the heavyweight division,

happened this past Saturday in New Orleans. Wow, everyone was talking about not only what Ben Rothwell did heading into the cage on Saturday night, not only what he did in the cage as far as the choke of Matt Matreone, but what he did after as well, his point. Post-fight interview was one for the ages. I have watched it over and over again. I can't get enough. Every time I watch it, I noticed something else that I just love.

So we had to get him on the show, had to talk to Big Ben, and now he joins us online, number one. Ben, how are you? There it is. The familiar laugh. It is good to have you. Congratulations on the win. He's starting this already?

Yeah, I'm starting this. Fuck it. Yeah, let's go. Let's do it. Amazing. You, okay, let's... J.Vierre Mendes, yeah, it's go I got to hear him a few mixed comments.

JDS still is the only threat to Keenha. All right. Joking itself. Are you pissed off about that? I'm not pissed off. I laugh. It's funny. It's, uh, it's whatever.

It's like, that's wishful thinking. He's hoping that that's Keynes-on challenge. It's not. And, you know, is a guy tough? Sure. But I think that he's definitely got his hands full with, uh, you know, Verdume. Verdum's going to bring some chance.

challenges to him. Regardless, it doesn't matter to me. Let's see what happens after July 1st and the advanced testing start kicking him. Let's see if he still fights the same way he still has. I doubt it. Are you implying that Kane is using PEDs? I'm not implying anything. I'm just saying I don't believe the heavy division is going to look the same

after Zahaw at July 1st. Now, if anybody takes offense to that, maybe they got to look at themselves and look at the problems. Me, I'm ready. So I'm very excited. And that's why I'm so confident that I'm going to have the title by next year. Where is this confident? I mean, you sound like a different fighter now.

You were always confident. You've had a great career, but you are, you are coming full force. Where is this coming from? Well, I mean, when Anderson Silva tested positive, something, a seed inside of me, I guess, opened up. Something changed dramatically in my life. I guess I was, like, so upset and so enraged at the same time. It was like, I knew it. I knew it all along. And it just came, it was true. And this sad secret about these heroes that we look up to, these guys that we believe so much in, it is just it is that it is that.

It's the fact that these guys are doing anything they've got to do to win, and they're not real. And things are going to change. So you're coming to clean up the sport. Yeah, things are going to change. And I feel like we've been let down for so long. And people are all, Ben, Rob, you did this and this, and this, and that. Hey, whatever, 2012.

mine was a prescription you have seen knew about it and the things were what it was and I don't regret anything because I had to go through that because now that I went through that I'm scrutinized 10 times more than anybody else so I know where I'm at and

you know I beat I beat over him you know here it was I think one of the big things they gave me that fight is because people thought I was going to be a tomato can because I had to come off of TRT well thank God I only did it for a short period of time I don't think it got to a me as much as it did say Vitor.

I mean, look at Bigfoot Silva. He came off, and the guy is a shell of himself. He don't look anything like he did before. He's a standing punching bag. You're going to see that with a lot of the guys that, you know, having to change their lives and come off of it. And I think they gave me

over and thinking the same thing. I was going to be a standing punching bag. And I kind of surprised everybody, oh, this guy's still got some fight left on him. No, I don't have some fight left in me. I have the fight. Okay? I'm, I'm The greatest threat to all the heavyweights in division right now. Do you feel like you still have to answer for that positive test,

the elevated levels of testosterone, or do you think people have forgotten about it at this point? No, I don't know. I mean, it is what it is. It's permanent. I'm never going to forget. Yeah. You know, that's my scar to look at and remind myself of what I've gone through. Because it's not about that, for me, what's so powerful about it isn't that I went through it. It's that I've come back from it. You know, before the last fight, I said, I beat this.

and people are like, oh, whatever. Well, now here it is. Two wins later, you know, looking better than I've ever looked in my life. Yes, I beat it. I'm something more because the mental capacity it took to overcome it is what's made me. You know, it is not an easy thing to go off of them, come back and to do it. And that's what I'm saying. You're going to see so many guys fail from it.

And when July 1st kicks off, those guys that have been lucky, they know how to work the system, and they've gotten away with it. Well, now that they're going to be randomly tested, even when they don't have a fight. Dude, people are scared. they're pissing themselves. This is going to change things. And, you know, and then you're going to threaten a two, three-year suspension. That's this career ending.

And if you look at the heavyweight division, especially, we're all in our 30s. It's beautiful watching it. The heavyweight division is a mature group of guys. Like, that's what it takes to be in this division. So you lose two, three years. Your career is over. You know, so things are going to change. And for me to overcome my mishaps, yeah, it's very powerful.

immensely stronger than I've ever been in my whole life. So when I talk to you right now, I kind of understand where you were coming from on Saturday, and in particular your walkout, you were wearing this black robe. I mean, have you turned to the dark side? Is that where this is all headed? I mean, did... Let me explain my entrance song. It's something to me.

Okay. You know, the entrance song was a very big deal to me, the cloak, but I want the dark presence. Yeah, you know, some people are like referring to me, like the Undertaker-type character. I'm like, yeah, I feel like we're fighting. Like, this is serious. This isn't, I'm not coming out to club music and all this is a party. I'm coming to smash somebody. Like, somebody might could put on a stretcher.

Like, God forbid it, but, like, I've had fights in my career where people were like, this sport needs to be banned because I've beaten a man down so bad. Like, this is serious. This is not a game. This is not W. This is not scripted. All right, Vince McMahon, and I'd say, okay, Ben, you get to win tonight. Blah, blah, blah.

No. Man, M. Trem was trying to take my head off. Like, I could have gotten smashed and, you know, but a joke, no. I put my cloak on, and I came out to that song, and I had to be a bad motherfucker, okay, because there was no script. I had to be who I am,

and I had to believe in myself, and I mean, it happened, and it took a lot of nuts to do what I did, because you didn't know what was going to happen. And it's a different level. So when he shot in on you in the fight, what were you thinking? He's never gone for a take down in his career,

and you capitalized, and you turn the tables very quickly, and I know it's very quick, but what were you thinking? Well, it's just that you said it. It happened so quick. It wasn't time to think. It was just a reaction of instinct of this is done.

Like, this is over. Soon as my hip got away from them and I flattened him, it was over. You know, so, I mean, that's all I am. On the ground, I mean, I'm excited. It's one of those things where it's like an awesome cup secret, but also I listen to Brian Stan and the commentating, And, like, yeah, I guess my well-round-in-ness is starting to come out there.

People are starting to like, oh, I guess there's more to this guy than just striking. Yeah, like, if the fight hits the ground, I'm going to end it. Oh, it bends on his back. I'm going to end you. I'm on top. I feel bad for you, period. If it's on the feet, oh, people thought matronos controlling the fight. I mean, there's one picture on the Internet.

There's no pictures of me getting hit. There's a picture of me, like, his jaws out of place with one right hand. And that's why he went first shot. Why did he go first shot? Because I punched you in the face. Your game plan changes then. You know, that's fear. I punched fear into your brain.

So now what? I want you to do something stupid. So for the record, that was a go-go choke. You were quick to correct a lot of people, including myself, online. And you also said, everyone talking shit has never been put in one period. So did you feel like people weren't really get, like, did you get the impression that people were thinking it was just a lucky choke? No, they have no idea. Yeah, it's a go-go choke.

It's Portuguese for Adam's Apple. Yeah. And, yeah, it's directly on the windpipe. And it's a Luis's choke. I mean, a lot of people don't even know, oh, it's this choke. It's it, no, it's not a kill. It's nothing.

It's not like anything you guys ever seen, and it's vicious. Like, he was, I mean, you've seen how he tapped. You know, he's not a weak man. You know, Matron's one of the best in the world, too. That tap is, like, you think you're going to die. You know, if Kenny Floreen was kind of giving him grief, I heard it, like,

Oh, he taps so quick, and he goes, no, Kenny, let me put you in it, and you're going to tap quicker than Matt did. If I put the choke on him, I might pop his head off, literally. So it's a vicious choke, and, you know, it's a kind of choke where Matt's probably drinking smoothies for the next couple days. Wow. Yeah, it's vicious. The post-fight interview was amazing, and it has been shared and passed around over and over again.

Did you prepare that speech, if you want to call it, that answer, or was that off the cuff? No, people are all It was scripted No, because I paused for a minute I was, I was, it's original, you know It's like Dramatic effect Come in my head

Yeah, did I have some of these ideas in my head Of course I mean, you just have to Obviously I'm eight weeks getting in there For this fight Yeah, I have a plan You know But it still is

You know, it all It's kind of rolled off my tongue You know, it's like yeah Could have been better? Of course When he came back to ask him more questions Yes, I should have grabbed the mic And dropped it on the floor

walked out of it. Yes, that's what I should do. But, you know, it's original and it wasn't perfect. And it's, you know, nothing I'm going to do is perfect. But that's okay. That's why life is great, you know. Well, I don't know if it could have got it. I loved everything about it. And I'm not just saying that. I'm, I'm wondering if you were annoyed, he went back. Like, were you hoping that was the walk off? And then when he came back... I was me, I was my fault. I should have, soon as I said, I have nothing left to say. That's what I meant. I had nothing left to say, and I should have walked out of the page. But, well, it just is what it is. And what was So you did the lot. He made up for it, though.

He made up for it because he goes, go get back to Raffle on the main. Yeah, nice fun. I pulled my gym up all week. And he made up for us. I wasn't mad at him. That was cool. They talked up my gym.

So I was very appreciative of that. The gym, as you can see, I don't just own a gym. I teach the classes. You can see that it's a lot to do with my transition as well. I'm transcending into a master. And it's all part of the equation. And then you shared that laugh with us,

and you did something with your hands. What was that? As you watch all my recent fights, that's my trademark. What does it mean? What does it represent? I'm right-handed, and I bring my hand,

I snap my left hand to the sky. It's my left hand is my mind. I've watched me knocked up burning shot, you've watched me crush people with my left hand. That's my mind. I'm anodextrous because I've used my mind. It's my power. You know, it's my direct,

that's my spirit, and that's why I raise it high. And what about the laugh? I mean, are you an evil person right now? So back to that, the whole we got on our tangent here. Sure. So I came out to that with the cloak and everything like that. In Dracula, yeah, you know the songs from the movie Dracula, Bramstroke's Dracula.

That's the entrance song for Van Helsen. Okay. He's a monster slayer. I am in the ring with monsters. These are the scariest human beings on the planet. I'm slain. So that's what that's about. Ah, okay.

And did it take you some time to, come to that realization because you weren't always this way. No. No, my coach is very happy because he he like believed in me. When you first started training in 2011, 2011, he believed in me so much. He's just, he could see me when I was training. He's like, you know, I didn't have that where I wasn't fighting the way I train. And I've reached that point. I was in there and I'm very calm. I'm very ready to do what I do because I can now, I fight the way I train.

And that's important. and that's a whole other level of confidence. I saw you call out Dana White on Twitter as well. You said you were waiting for that phone call. What do you want him to tell you? I just want to talk to him. About what? I talked to Joel Silva,

and Joe Selva said it's even hard for him to talk to Dana White. So Dana White's a bigger star than all of us, you know. You don't have time for any of us. I don't even think you watched the UFC that fight. I don't think you watched it. No. So it's funny. Does that bother you?

I don't know. I don't care. I felt jipped. I didn't get Dana White wasn't there. Joe Sovo wasn't there. I felt jiped though. And these fights are a big, yeah,

Joel Rogan wasn't there. These fights are a big deal. The three stars of the UFC weren't even there. So I kind of felt jipped. What about me? I wasn't there either. What the hell? Yeah,

I don't see, nor are telling you. Yeah, you're right. John Morgan was literally the only one asking this question at the press conference. That's like the lamest press conference of all time. Well, let's tell the world.

world if they weren't there. I mean, what, in fact, do you want next? What do you want Dana White to offer you? Perfect world. Dondri Lovsky fight, for sure. Why not the title fight? I think that's going to be more Joe Silva. I know, who knows? I don't know. It's all. I don't know who does so the tights at this point in time. But

I want to talk to Dana White because I want to be at the UFC Fan Expo. And I'm looking at these list of people that aren't even know who they are. I mean, you might, you know, the girl, but there's like, you've got the champions coming. You got some of the veterans, Maddieu's and Chuck with awesome. Then there's some group of People, I don't even know who they are, and they're signing.

Like, really? And they didn't invite you? No, and I want to be there. I like, I want to be there for the fans, you know? Wow. They're trying to get autographs and stuff on me. Dude, the night of the fight, like, this is also, I've embraced my alter ego. Like, I'm, I get in that octagon.

I'm somebody different. I really am. People are like, you're crazy. Yes, I'm crazy. I'm, you see what I'm doing? I'm getting in and against, you know, some of the scariest people on the planet. Yes, I'm crazy. But right now, talking to you, I like to be better off the flow.

I enjoy talking. Social media is awesome, you know, because, you know, we get to interact and spread the word of the sport. But being able to shake hands and sign autographs means a lot more to me. I feel like then I get to personally get to meet me and know what really go about. And, you know, I get some of those opportunities. And the UFC Fan Expo is a great place to be. And UFC just kind of don't give a shit, I guess, well, I mean.

I don't know. Well, I feel like that's going to change now because I think a lot, lot of people are excited about you. And how about all the fellow fighter? I mean, you had D.C., you had Wyatman tweet about you. I saw a bunch of guys. DC and Wyman, dude, that was awesome. I tell you, motivating to me is that.

Yeah. Mad Hume in 2010, I only got to spend two weeks with him. He forever changed the course of my career and me as a martial artist. So big props to Matt Hume because he unlocked some things being mentally about myself and my training and believing to myself. and he says every champion has to find something. To be a champion, it isn't about your coaches, isn't about your training, it's about you. What are you going to be?

So I really, that stuck with me forever. But he said something also. He's like, when you fight, he's like, you want to impress the everyday fan, or do you want to impress the other fighters that do what you do and know what you go through? I'm like, absolutely. So the fact that I'm earning respect to the champs,

that's very motivating, you know, and I'm very, very motivating. I kind of gave some grief to the media in the press conference, But you guys have come back. You guys are writing some really cool stuff about me. And I'll tell you, either way, I went. You guys talk trash on me.

I'm going to get motivated. These news stories, they're very motivating to me as well. Because I want to come back in the next fight. I mean it. You have seen nothing yet. I 100% believe that. And just wait. I've only got my last two fights.

I only got to fight for two minutes each. All right? So I believe Andre's come, give me a fight. Come on, Andre, give me the fight. I did him wrong when we fought last time. He fought a child, you know, a scared child. Now he's going to fight something else. You're going to fight the best I've ever been,

and I expect him to be fully healthy. I want to fight the best that he's got, and it'll be a great show for the fans. Yeah, it's amazing. You've gone from maybe Ignore to now your immediate darling. I think a lot of people, again, are excited to see you fight again. Why aren't you asking for a title shot? You don't think you've done enough?

You'd like one more and then the title shot? Yeah, I just think it's right. I mean, I was ranked 9th, whatever the rankings are, they are what they are. Stipei had a string of wins And yeah, he lost a decision And a five-round epic war against junior Which he might have, you know, he'll rewatching, maybe he even wins that in the decision

Yeah Comes back, destroys Mark Hunt I'm not coming to step on his toes I feel like the man's earned his right to fight The next title fight Me and Andre have kind of just came out of nowhere We both kind of three-fight win streak It just makes sense to me

I feel like let him do his thing And hopefully he wins a title I'll come fight him after I, you know, deal with Andre. Are you hoping? I'm not like, well, I don't kind of, I don't like to say things like whatever. It's like, no, I'm going to win the title, then whoever I'm going to fight, I'm going to beat. So it is what it is. But are you hoping that JDS, excuse me, that Verdume beats Kane on Saturday because you fought him in 104?

He finished you. Like, would it be hard to get people behind that fight rematch because you fought him back at UFC 104? Absolutely not. I mean, we're at a different stage. I mean, I feel like Keynes, Cain, this is my opinion. I watched him. You know, he does his thing. I'm a completely different animal.

I'm, you know, I'm just completely different. So I think it makes her a lot more exciting because people are like, well, what's going to happen this time? And, you know, the ref, we all know it was a poor stoppage. I was getting him up on the cage. It was a horrible stoppage. But he was clearly dominating. There was no argument for me. It was a shit fight for me.

I did not put out a good performance. But I'm not who I am now either. I have lack of skills or lack of everything at that point in time. And it was a lot, man, because it did. The fight changed me, too. You know, that fight alone, I came back and I started fighting different. So I went through a lot ups and downs, and I think I could definitely promote a hell of a fight if he wins

and whatever happens in the next few fights, and if he's the one I'm going to fight for the title for, I'll promote it. You know, I'll get some more of the, my dragorism going on here. and I'll get the voice out there and talk. I haven't talked too much these last few fights, because there's no point. Sure, sure.

I had to win these fights to getting these positions. Now I'm getting closer. I can talk a little more, but I need to win the next one, and then I'll really freak out. Freak out is a funny way of putting it, but just, you know, a word to the wise, that's all well and good,

and I love it more than anyone, but it's got to be authentic. Don't forget about, you know, I think on Saturday it was very authentic. don't go off that path, all right? I agree 100%. Because everybody wanted the dance. The dance was authentic.

It was... I didn't even know I was going to do it. The dance was... At least I had thought about it. Like, hey, I'm like, they're going to interview me after when this fight. So I did think about it. Sure.

Like, I'm going to get interviewed. That's fine. I did not want to get up and be like, all right, thank you, Jesus. Oh, thank you. I trained hard. I'll fight anybody. You know, like, come on.

Nobody listens. So like me or hate me, I got you to listen, period. And the dance was, like, I agree. It was like, everybody was like, where was the dance? I'm like, the dance happened. So next time around, it's, you know, I'm going to keep you guessing. It's definitely, I like the trend that I'm creating.

And so it is, what am I going to do next? How I don't even know. So better watch. I hate myself for saying this, but Ben Rothwell fights have become, as Forrest Gump once said, like a box of chocolates, right? Forrest Gump, thanks. No, I mean, you never know what you're going to get. I love that.

You never know what you're going to get. You've kept us on our toes. It's been, wow, what a fun ride. This has been, this reintroduction of Ben Rothwell. You stole the show on Saturday night, my friend, and I'm looking forward to what's next for you. Thank you very much. Congrats on a fantastic performance. You know, all around, from the walkout to the fight, to the post-fight interview.

I mean, you nailed it. That was a grand slam, if you asked me. And good luck getting that Andre Arlofski fight. Yeah, and hey, you also, so bad, given the, the UFC some grief and open gear, you know, get your fans to get some grief. Get me at that expo for the fans. Give them some grief, too, like, yeah, we need to show my walkout next time. Yeah.

You know, like, like, like, that, yeah, the walkout definitely is just turning me, and it turns me into who I am, and I think you need to get shown. So, all right. Maybe the next fight, we need to put on paper review so we can show it. Okay, I'll talk to them. All right, my man. Thank you, Ben. Appreciate it.

Thank you. You have a good one. Big Ben Rothwell, taking the heavyweight division by storm. Great stuff from him. him so entertaining. I loved everything about it on Saturday night. All right, let's move along. Let's go back to UFC 188. Let's go back to Mexico. One of the intriguing fights on the card this Saturday actually takes place on the fight past prelims. Augusto Dodger Montagno, who as I mentioned at the top of the show, very popular in Mexico, some kind of rock slash pop star.

He wears leather vests. He's got a mohawk. He's just a fun character that everyone seems to love. over there is fighting Ireland's own Cahall Pendred. And Mr. Pendred joins us via the magic of Skype right now from his hotel room in Mexico City. Cahill, how are you? I'm very good, Ariel. How are you? I'm doing great. Thank you very much for the time. You've been in Mexico for quite some time, right? Yeah, nearly six weeks now at this stage. It came out very early. I was here for the first time in April. I was brought out for a press tour with the UFC

and it was actually a blessing in the skies at the time. We got to do it. with a training with Gilmolendez when we were here and I kind of noticed the effect of the altitude so I decided you know I when I first got the fight I was planning on doing the whole you know sleeping intense thing and you know wearing masks

but looking into it and coming here I decided there's no there's nothing like to replicate altitude like actually just coming here and training it so came out brought my whole team out here got a house got settled out in the gym and did my training camp here So if you didn't come early for that press tour, do you think you wouldn't have come this early?

I was planning on coming out two weeks early anyway. Okay. But when I came out here and I got to experience that bit of training, you know, when your heart rate starts going, you just, when you're not used to it, you're kind of sucking for air, you know, taking deeper breaths in or near Uziwood. so I really took note once I did that training session with Gilmela-Lendez and I said, right, I'm just going to bring my whole team over here, well, mouth the team and do my training camp here. You know, obviously it cost me a lot of money and a lot of sacrifice had to come away from home. But I look at it as an investment as my fourth fight in the UFC.

I don't want to cut any corners. I want to get my fourth win out of my fourth fight and keep moving up. early portion of your staying in Mexico you didn't have your head coach John Kavanaugh there he was famously at the Mac Mansion in Las Vegas with Connor McGregor was that tough for you

not really I'm an experienced pro at this stage and I was with a lot of other experienced pros we know what to do day and day out it's great to have John here to give you your little tips here and there but we know how to

organize a training session we had our own time John set us the timetable, what sessions we were doing and what days, and we just stuck to that, and we got some phenomenal training. I've probably got some of the best training I've ever done in my life over here with a great team and no distractions here. It's kind of like we've done camps in Iceland. It was quite like that.

You're away from home. There's nothing to focus on other than training and on the fight. All the fires that were here had their own. So they were dieting as well. It makes things easier. There was no cookies lying around the house or other temptations. like that. It was a great camp, couldn't

went better. Are you surprised that this fight is on the fight-pass prelims? Yeah, I was shocked when I saw it up because I was brought out here in April and I remember the kind of PR team looking after me when I was here, I was on the main card

and the guy in fighting Dodger made his debut in the last UFC Mexico card and he was on the main card. So I took it nearly for granted that it was on it. It makes no odds to me. At the end of the day, I just got to go in there

and fight my fight. I'm really looking forward to putting in a really spectacular performance. Yeah, I've three fights and three wins in the UFC, but I still feel like I've shown nowhere near to my best abilities in the UFC, which, you know, it's frustrating, but it says a lot that I'm going

in there and I'm not fighting to my own standards and I'm still winning. So I think I'll go in there and put on the performance that I deserve to myself, you know, that I owe to myself, I think I'm going to turn some heads. Do you think this particular placement on the card is a result of what happened in your last fight, somewhat controversial win? Again, famously right after Dana White and Joe Rogan were on television saying that they disagreed with the judge's decision. Do you feel like this,

you know, for lack of a better word, it shouldn't be placed this way, but for lack of a better word, again, that this is kind of your punishment for that performance? Yeah, it could be that the tart slipped into my mind, but I'm not thinking about it. out of because it's something that's out of my control. Whether I'm fighting the main event or the opening fight in the night, I was to go in there and do the same job and that's all I focus on.

It's all that's in my control is turning up, fight night and fighting to the best of my ability. So that's all I'm staying on. All these other different variables are just that. They make no difference to me. I'm not in control of them.

It's just going to be another fight, another win for me. It doesn't matter where I'm. I'm on the car. What was the aftermath like of that fight back in January? Because at the end of the day, you fought the fight. You didn't pick yourself as the winner. Three judges did, right?

I mean, you're not the one who came out and declared yourself the winner. But from when I gathered, it seemed like you received a lot of the hate for it. Is that accurate? Yeah, big time. I'd never seen anything like it before. I got a fair bit of stick, you know, obviously on social media. social media is a great tool as a fighter to promote yourself

but on the other end of stick you can when you're getting criticism you're subjected to it all but you know I learned a lot from that performance I was bitterly disappointed with that performance afterwards

as soon as the bell went for the third round I was really disappointed but I was never in question that I had lost the fight I believe I had won the fight and three independent judges who were sitting around the octagon

not beside each other thought the same thing I didn't I didn't make the decision in the end they did but yeah there was definitely a lot of slack I got from the fans have you ever watched the broadcast again

and if so were you bothered that immediately after is a very unique situation that Rogan and Dana were standing there saying that they thought you lost yeah that was very annoying and even watching the broadcast itself.

I thought Joe, who I'm a big fan of, I just thought he was very critical of me the whole time throughout the fight even when I was doing as well.

He kept mentioning what I was doing wrong and he kept mentioning what my opponent was doing well. Even in the third round, at one point I was taking my opponent down

and he was talking about how tired and bad my cardio was as I was taking my opponent down. There was a lot of negative comments and he's in a position where he can can sway people's mind.

So, you know, I felt that may have had an effect on it. And then definitely afterwards when he came out and said it was a complete robbery, you know, I completely disagree with him. I don't even know where he's coming from there, to be honest, because, you know, it was a close fight, but to call it a robbery, I think, is way off the mark. You look at the statistics, I outstruck my pond.

I hit him more times than he hit me. Yes, his look better than, you know, his strikes were, look more beautiful than mine but that's never the way I've fought I'm not spectacular in any area you look at some of my teammates like Connor McGregor he's in my opinion the best striker in

MMA you look at Connor Nelson in my opinion the best rocker in MMA they're spectacular in their areas I'm not spectacular in any area I'm a product of hard work that's all I know anything I've ever done well in my life or succeeded in it's just because it worked

hard and that's how that's how I have achieved success in my MMA career. I work hard when it comes to the preparation for the fight. I ensure that I work so hard that I know that my opponent can't be working that hard. When it comes to the fight itself, I make sure that I outwork my opponent in every area. It doesn't matter if he's a Golden Gloves boxing champion, and he's a better striker than me. I will outwork him.

I will hit him more times than he hits me. If it's an NCAA Division I wrestler, I will take them down more time. times than they take me. They might have better technique, but I will do it. I've made a career out of this. I've been fighting guys who've been doing this longer than me, my whole career. That's just all I know. So with all that in mind, considering the performance and the feedback and the criticism, are you entering this fight with a huge chip on your shoulder? Do you have something to prove on Saturday night? You know, I will prove something on Saturday night, but that's not in my mind. That will just be a result of my performance that I'm focusing on. The, you know,

I don't have a chip in my shoulder. You know, people, sports fans are entitled to our opinion. That's what being a sports fan is about, whether you're a basketball fan, a baseball fan, a football fan. You have an opinion on it. You may have never played the sport in your life, but you have an opinion on it. It's the same with MMA. Like, 99% of the criticism I got would have been from people who have never stepped foot in the gym. But that's okay.

I'm not going to worry about that. I wouldn't be in the position I am today if there weren't fans. And that's what they're entitled to, their opinion. So, you know, it's part of being a professional athlete. And if you can't deal with that, then you shouldn't be a professional athlete. So, you know, I'm very grateful for the fact that I make a living doing this and that people are talking about. If they weren't talking about it, I wouldn't be making a living about living doing this.

You know, right before this interview, I saw an article pop up on MMAJunkey.com. And the headline is why does everyone hate Cahall Pendred? Does everyone hate you? That's the first I heard. I actually did that interview last week with an Irish reporter, and he just texted me today. I haven't seen the article yet. Yeah, Tom Rooney.

He's a nice guy. He's done articles on me for years now. He's a nice guy and a good writer. He knows his stuff. But that wasn't him. He said that wasn't him. That was MMA junkie's idea. I said to him, here, listen, I'm not going to share it.

to be honest, because I don't want to make it look like that I'm concerned about people. I have my haters, just like all professional athletes do. And that's just part of the game. So here you are fighting on this card, you know, June 13th in Mexico. And of course, you know, all eyes, the entire country, very excited about July 11th, Connor McGregor's title fight. Then after that, there's Scotland. Were you surprised that they put you on the Mexico card and not, you know, the July 11th card or even maybe the Scotland card?

yeah I didn't know about the Scotland I wasn't the Scotland card I don't think had been announced I've known about this fight for a while

but I thought I would maybe be on the July 11 card I wasn't I wasn't sure you never know with the UFC it's it's never up to you they just tell you

where you fight I don't know if other fighters turn down fights or not but I just when I'm told an opponent on the venue that's just

given that that's what's happening and I got the call about Mexico City and it's actually something I'm excited about. I've never, you know, I've been on the other end of it where I'm the hometown guy and that's fun. I love to do it, but, you know, I'm all about

different experiences in this game and I'm feeling different energies and, you know, I've been cheered walking out to a fight. I'm looking forward to what if there are few booze, I'm sure there will be just 22,000 Mexican fans going to be there on Saturday night. I'm sure I'm going to be getting booed, but I'm looking forward to that. It's part of the game.

and I feel privileged to be able to experience it. We just had Ben Rothwell on the show, and he used the term McGregorism. And you know, Connor has taken the sport by storm, people, you know, try to copy him and all that stuff. Do you get people because of your friendship and because you train with them and because of how different you are? Do you get a lot of people saying to you like, oh, why don't you be more like Connor? Why don't you talk more? Why don't you sell more? Does that get annoying?

Yeah, it does. I was getting up for a lot for a while and you know my simple response is that Connor is not putting on anything Connor is Connor he's the way he is in an interview with you or anyone else is exactly the way he would

speak to me or anyone in the gym that's just Connor he's been like that since day one and I think that's the important thing is to just be true to yourself and be who you are the way I'm speaking to you now is the way I always am and I don't want to be someone else

but I don't want to play a character or play a role you look at guys and you can see it it's quite evident because guys have seen you know Conor's success how quickly he's rose and everything that's come with that and they think that his

this persona they think it's something he's put on and they're trying to emulate that and you know it's you can see through it and I think it comes across bad but Connor it works because that's him

and I think that's the way the way it is you you got to be yourself. That's the only way it will work. Where will you be on July 11th? I'm thinking I'll be in Vegas. It's going to be a historic night for MMA,

for Irish MMA, the first Irish UFC champion. So I'd like to be there alongside my team. You know, Connor's fighting, Gundie's fighting as well. So I'm looking to be there. More importantly, where will your mother be on Saturday night?

She'll be glued to a laptop, I'm sure. She won't be there. She's not making the trip? No, because even with the laptop on, she probably won't even watch the fight sometimes. You know, it closes her eyes and turns around. I'm pretty sure she's done that in a lot

of fights. She goes to the last fight in Boston. She's paying money to go over to Boston. And staying in hotels and everything and then she's not actually watching the fight so I told her, look, stay at home you're wasting money to come watch

a fight that you're not actually watching so she'll sit at home and not watch it on five pass. How do you beat Dodger? I beat him anyway. I want to. I think he's a I think it's a really exciting fight because he's aggressive.

He's what you would imagine a Mexican fighter to be. You know, they're famous for their boxing heritage and their boxing, the Mexican boxers are always being very aggressive and passionate

and that's exactly the way he fights well I think that plays into my hand I'm the fighter that likes to you know step into the middle

and go go from the start but I believe I'm better than them in every facet of the game I think the most important difference between us is we both have

impressive records we delve a bit deeper into them I think the level of competition we've both faced is drastically different you look at the guys

I've fought, not just in the UFC, but a long time before I was in the UFC, I was fighting high, high level guys, you know, UFC veterans, private veterans, BJ black belts, all the way up. Like I said, I've always been fighting guys who are technically better than me, but I believe I'm technically better than him everywhere, and I have that intensity and that career that I've built to lean on that experience that he doesn't have. Well, I am most certainly looking forward to it. On the one hand, I kind of feel like it's a very smart move because you're very popular, he's very popular.

I was blown away by how popular he was when I was there for his UFC debut. So maybe it's smart to put these kinds of fights on Fight Pass to get people to get some subscriptions. Who knows? Sometimes these days guys are on the prelims when they should be on the pay. The times have changed. So I wouldn't take it as too much of an offense. But I'm looking forward to it very much on Saturday.

UFC 188, the return of Carl Pendred. We appreciate the time very much, my friend. Best of luck to you, and thanks for taking some time out to be on the show today. Thanks, Harold. It's good to see you still have the videos going. I taught you to pack those in. Which ones? Which ones?

The Skype video. Oh, yes, that's right. That's right. You know, sometimes not everyone takes, you know, that extra step to get their face on the show. So I appreciate you doing it at a hotel here. I mean, it looks like a nice hotel, but sometimes the connection isn't great. So, yes, we want to do Skype with everyone, but not everyone has those capabilities or are smart enough, whatever. you are always very good at that, so I appreciate it very much.

It's only for the good-looking fighter. Exactly, exactly. You want to show it off. Thank you, Carl. We'll see you soon. Thanks, Ari. Talk to you soon. There he is.

Call Pendred. Ireland's own, the pride of Ireland fighting this Saturday against Gusto, Dodger, Montagno. Big fight. UFC Fight Pass. Maybe it is a smart thing. Maybe they have to put these fights on UFC Fight Pass to get people to buy those subscriptions, right? I mean, it makes sense.

Sort of like how they put a Uriah Faber fight on the FS1 prelims. Get people to watch FS1. This is one that you can kind of move around. The end of the day, what's the difference between third fight, fourth fight? Not a horrible idea. Not a bad idea at all, to be honest with you. So that takes place to the Saturday UFC 188. All right, one more interview to go. And we're saving this one for a man who said goodbye to MMA, at least active. MMA. Saturday night in New Orleans,

Brian Ebersol, Twas, the white Anderson Silva, announced his retirement after, what a long career, an amazing career, a career that span many years, many continents, many different fight organizations. End of the day, he walks away with a

51 win, 51 win, 17 loss, one draw, one no contest record. He made his UFC debut, UFC 127. In fact, on this very show last week, side of the vault, we replayed his post-fight interview at UFC 127. Very emotional stuff. It's one I'll never forget. On Saturday night, following his loss to Omari Akmedov, he announced his retirement from active MMA competition, so we wanted to have him on the show to discuss that and where he goes from here. We're talking to Brian Embersol right now. Brian, how are you?

Hey, good afternoon. I'm doing well. Well, thank you very much for the time. Congratulations on a fine career. You have a lot to be proud of. When did you decide that this was it for you? going into this fight, my ultimate hope was to finish out the year of fighting, and that was the plan, finish year strong, hopefully get two more wins and go out on a high note. Like most guys would love to write their final chapter. I'd like to have finished at 193 November in Melbourne. You know, got a bit of a history there in Australia. I spent a lot of time there.

and my closest training team as far as my UFC career, especially. The recent years has been a team from Melbourne. So they've been very fitting to finish up camp with them, celebrate with them, and be on the card with a couple of other guys I know, like the Ben 10 U.Ns of the world, which just made his debut not long ago

and he's probably looking to get on that card as well. So, yeah, I tried to write a fairy tale ending and just didn't quite happen. And I wasn't going to ask the UFC to put me back out. for one more fight if I wasn't to be 100%. If I can't play the way I want to play, I don't want to play at all. I don't want to kind of disparage the sport

and in myself really going out there at less than 100%. What kind of knee injury did you suffer in the fight? You know, I've had kind of a similar issue with MCL before. I had a knee surgery back in 1999. In 2008, I thought Hector Lombard. I felt very sharp, you know, persistent

pain throughout that fight, especially like half guard and guard locking his legs out and stretching them out. And, you know, the same thing was going on a little bit of miscancer, some bit of the strain and pain. And, you know, I took a kick or two. I know I split once or twice on a canvas, pivoting for kicks and trying to bounce in it out just wasn't working throughout the whole, you know, back half of the first round. So, yeah, I don't know what the MRI is going to say.

My knee when I touch, it's really hot right now. It's a fair bit swollen. And we'll see what the professionals have to say. I just know it wasn't right. It wasn't made 100%. Obviously, hindsight 2020, but you kind of wish you retired after the John Howard fight. That was a win for you.

That wouldn't have been terrible. That wouldn't have been terrible. I could have walked away happy. I nearly retired after the rich story fight. But, you know, rehab and whatnot went fairly well. I didn't want to jump to any conclusion, being emotional. I've had a pretty good career, but I did have some goals left that I hope to reach. And, you know, some of the bigger fights crack in the top 10 at my division, things like that.

So I took my time. We have went fairly well. I was out in Thailand and I was able to get my back healthy again. And, yeah, I decided to come back for a little while longer. So I think I've stressed myself almost with the width. You know, I think I could take some time off and probably still fight. again, but to be fair, living with the pain and training stressfully through camps while you're hurt, taking two and three days off to ride in the lyrical and not do martial arts

training at a time. It doesn't be you mentally sharp and prepared to go in there and really, you know, fight it out with some people that are in the U.S. state. So what are you going to do now? What's your full-time job going to be? I want to be old for a little while. You're only 34. I'm old and sport. in years maybe. Yeah, I'm definitely going to stay with the sport as far as a coach in some capacity.

I don't know, I might pick up a Microsoft, study some of your tapes and try to hone my craft there, you know, an MMA-hour type job or something on ESPN or Fox Sports would be amazing. But we'll see what really happens. I've invested my money in real estate so far, and I'll continue to do that and hopefully set up at least my retirement. I don't know if the UFD's retirement plan for the fighters is not existing. Not saying that as a knock. We don't have a 401K.

So that's what I've tried to do for myself to create kind of a cash flow and an ongoing situation that I could leverage as a retirement plan. So, you know, that's definitely going to take some time and some effort and a bit of learning and some trust there. I'm not sure if I'll ever be kind of the first. flip it or flop kind of guy. I'll love it or leave it. I don't know if I'll be able to renovate a whole house myself.

But in the end, yeah, that'll definitely be a side project. But I really love to stay involved in the sport. And I just don't know when or where exactly how I'm going to do that. So I know at one point you were coaching teaching over in Thailand. Is that no longer the case? Tiger Muay Thai has been a part of my training camps and just a part of my martial journey for goodness, seven years now. And I worked there during the calendar years of 2013 and 2014 as a full-time

coach. This year I decided not to go back because I've settled in the U.S. So just as far as family, and I've lived overseas for 10 years, in a way from Illinois for quite a long time. I moved to California after college. So getting closer to family was kind of a big goal for me to get back to the U.S. I'm married now, so wanting to settle down. and get a bit of stability instead of traveling, you know, every two and three months, played a big role. And I find myself on the panhandle of Florida down here in Pensacola. Wow.

We're just driving from New Orleans now, actually. We're in lower Alabama, I think. And, yeah, we'll see what opportunity is present themselves. You know, I bought a house or two out here, so we'll get to work on those in the next couple weeks. And, yeah, as far as a coaching role or a job, I'll save my time with that. and just see what's best for me. You mentioned afterwards that you, quote, unquote, cheated the system. And at first someone would say, like, wow, Brian Ebersol was on drugs, what's going on?

That's what you think of when you think of cheating the system. But that's not what you meant, right? No, not at all. My wrestle was about five years old. I wanted to be a wrestling coach. So first I kind of said I cheated the system was the fact that I was able to travel and coach wrestling in martial arts gym. I didn't get my degree in college. I came close.

but I left to California to train with Javier Mendez, who I believe he just had on. Yep. He was probably talking about Kane being unbeatable and whatnot in a big fight this weekend. So I went up there and trained with Crazy Bob Cook, Dwayne Vinkin was the manager, you know, Javier, the kickboxing guy. And, you know, when I got out, I got out that way, I moved to Australia. So I said, living overseas for quite a while,

but being able to teach without getting my degree, without being a teacher in high school, which would be a original plan. I feel I cheated a sister bit. I kind of took that side door into a coaching role. And as far as, you know, athletics go, I was never an Olympic guy. I was never going to make the Olympic team

or anything like that. But I was able to stay a wrestler, you know, into my 30s, which I shouldn't have been wrestling at 22 years old, like most guys. So that's kind of what I meant by Cheeses for now. Okay. And, you know, you're part of that old school era.

you made your MMA debut back in 2000. As I said, you walk away from the sport, 51, 17, 1, and 1. I mean, it's really amazing, 70 pro fights. Do you think that those days are over where we'll see guys with, you know, 51 wins, 50, 60 wins? I feel like we're not going to see that anymore for, you know, various reasons. And I'm wondering if A, you agree and if B, why? Well, I definitely got to agree.

I mean, definitely part of a different era. After my flight, I was on Bourbon Street, having a Ben-Yet, and Bonnie Cox came up to me and, you know, paid his respect and said hello. And he's a guy that's returned my emails over my career and very thankful to have had some insights and stuff from him. But he kind of compared me to Joe Dirk from because you guys have almost an identical record except for, you know, I think one fight in one of those three columns, you know, and funny stories I was supposed to fight Joe before I moved to Australia in the ISL. That's a fight that couldn't happen due to a suspension for cartwheel kicking and having a bit of fun as I'm known

to do in the cage. Right. So even his story being from Canada, I mean, it's not exactly the same part of the country, not even the same country. So here's stories of that generation all over North America and probably, you know, farther expands, guys fighting on the local circuit, fighting every two to four weeks, you know, yeah, you have a few fights back out on you, but for the most part, people show up and actually compete. Those days, I think, are gone.

You get guys, I think, that are a bit disillusioned, or sorry, delusional, whether it's with the sport. They don't understand really what the sport's about, what it offers, or they're, you know, a bit delusional about their own path and place in the sport, but they get two, three fights in, and they start managing their career. As if you have something to manage at that point, that could be called a career when you have three fights. You know, you guys that don't want to fight this guy for this reason and what back then we just fought. The Robbie Lawlers of the world Show up to your fight

You might not even be there You might be there corner in someone And you might take a fight You know it's kind of the half gloves A little travel And there are still like that But they're usually not the most talented ones These days the guys with the talent

Really seem to be sitting back You guys like Dancoe I'm not saying he did this But he got to the UFC at like 5 and 0 Or at least in the strike force You know, King Velasquez was I think 2 and 0 before you got in the UFC and again, that was because no one wanted to fight it.

But he had offers, I'm sure, put out to really talented guys with 10 fights that didn't want to fight him. So those guys that are talking about that aren't of that same breed. They aren't just to go challenge yourself, take the fight and trust the path. Now that you can walk away and look back on your career and I know it's very fresh, is it safe to say that 127, that moment taking that fight on short notice? in Australia of all places beating Chris Lytle who was streaking

best moment of your career? You know, you could take away some of the taglines as far as the highlights of that. Just having that as my debut was going to rank that up in the top three as far as memorable moments or memorable weekends of my career.

You added the win that the fact that it was over a guy like Chris Lytle. He added the financial factor, the bonus, which is two ways. It's the recognition that it was outstanding fight. And obviously the fact that I could pay out my student loans from college that I didn't finish

and take some of the financial pressure off myself and continue training the right way to move forward. Yeah, that night definitely probably the pinnacle. I'll never forget. It went downhill from there. Right, right, right. I'll never forget you saying afterwards in a quite emotional state saying, you know, you no longer have to explain to people what you do.

You're a UFC fighter. You don't have to explain to them that, yeah, you do Eminem, but you're not in the UFC. Do you remember that in the locker room? I'll never forget that. Oh, absolutely, absolutely. And again, that was kind of a collective statement. You know, I mean, one of the first guys where it actually hit me,

and I had to think about it was when I heard Gilbert Melendez do an interview. And, you know, he was fighting for one of the bigger organizations. I think it was still a strike force. But he just wasn't in the UFC, and, you know, he'd have to answer to that calling card all the time, all your M.A. I thought you don't fight the UFC. and he's like, well, that doesn't affect my pay. It doesn't affect my level of competition at this stage.

It just means I don't work for that company. You know, Samsung, Apple, that's how he felt about it. You know, he's a technician. You know, he's an educated guy doing his thing or a talented guy doing his thing, and that's how I felt all these years. But because the UFC is, you know, synonymous with the sport, and a lot of people call it by UFC, like you trained UFC. Yeah.

So unless you work for that company, like it said, there's a bit of derision going on, and people didn't really think you were doing it at a high level whatsoever. And how about if you could take something back? Would it be, you know, that whole period with the accusations of the fixed fight with Shannon Rich? Is that the black eye on your career that you wish you could take back? No, Shannon Rich did that to 150 guys. You know, I got caught up in his reputation somehow, and it's a bit frustrating. Like, I thought Shannon four years before that, three years before that,

I beat him. And it wasn't a hard fight. And I realized watching film and all that after. And even from chatting with Shannon, he's a heel hook, arm bar and bar guy. And he throws some spinning kicks. If he doesn't hit you with any of that, he's not going to beat you because he'll give up.

Because he's got to fight the next night for the next weekend. And he doesn't want to get tired, nor does he want to get hurt. And that's just the truth. The guy's only been out of the first round, I think, three times in his whole career. You know, so again, he's done that to many guys, is getting suspended for it. That truly at the time, that chapped my ass, that burned, that hurt,

that threw my life into turmoil. But as it stands, it gave me one of the greatest gifts. That was the gift to go travel. Really used my passport. I became a coach over Australia. On another level that I would have been able to achieve at that early time in the U.S., but they don't have wrestling in school,

they'll be able to go to martial arts gyms. I feel kind of a neat role that not many other guys were filling. And, you know, I guess the biggest of all I met my life over there. Yeah. That fight in itself set off, again, at the time, you know, ball-minded short-term,

a terrible set of circumstances for me. But bigger picture, pretty happy about it. So, yeah, the plan. The plan wasn't the plan. It didn't go to plan. But all went well. Do you think at one point, maybe when you're 40 years old,

45, 50, you'll bust out the harrow, for old times sake, because I would imagine you're not going to keep doing it. I mean, when we see you at the way and you've got a full chest of hair. But do you think at some point you'll get that itch and you'll break it out? I'll probably have the ability to pull it out of a pretty hairy guy. Sure. So it's always going to be there and I'll be able to do it as a bit of a laugh any time I want. Maybe if they come up with like a master's division, I can come back like Maurice Smith

and fight another older fella, you know, maybe get a Josh Tod's. check when we'll go 45, come back and put pillows on and have a good wrestle about it. Already you're talking about a comeback. You're a classic fighter. You're already thinking about the comeback. I had to give you that angle. Of course I am. You always think about it.

Always think about it. Is there a chance you think you'll fight again? Oh, I doubt it. To be honest, I'd love to go do something like Meta Morris. I'm a grappler. I love grappling. I love wrestling. That's my passion. That's what I like to do. And if I could have won't,

more fights being a grappling heavy fighter. I would have as you get to the higher levels. You've got to strike with people. Everyone's grappling kind of caught up in the last decade, I would say. A lot of gaps closed that wrestlers were able to take advantage of and people got better with defensive wrestling and jiu-jitsu. You know, I love the art of Muay Thai and kickboxing, but that's not my first love.

That was something I liked and something I had to do. So if I can continue wrestling and competing like that, that would be fantastic. All right, final question for you for now and again. We appreciate the time on your drive home. As someone who's been around the sport for a long time, 15 years, like I said, 70 pro fights, you've been around the block, you fought all over the world. Right now is a very interesting time in the history of our sport.

A lot of transition from the drug testing, Reebok, all this stuff, in particular what's going on in the UFC. Are you happy with the way the sport is evolving? Are you happy with where it's headed? Do you like, you know, comparing now to 2000, when you made your debut, it's an eternity in our sport. It's not like in the NBA, things haven't changed all that much. If you look at fights in 2000, you compare it to now, you look at where the organization is compared to back then,

completely different. When you walk away now, when you go off into the sunset, are you happy with where it's headed or do you have your reservations? Well, it's definitely, you know, pretty neat to see all the ways in which the sport has grown, and that's for the industry and the people within it, and it's made it better for them, giving them some more stability, some big shows happening more often, things like that. So obviously for fans, they've got a lot more access to athletes.

There's more athletes being marketed, more athletes on TV, more autographs that are worth chasing, things like that. So it's an exciting time, obviously, with all that growth. The one reservation I do have, and you know, you mentioned, you know, the Reebok thing and obviously the sponsors are being cut out, things like that. to the athlete. The one thing that doesn't excite me so far is the philosophy of how it's being grown in the sense that all the plans

and all the direction are coming pretty much from one head table. And it's not a situation where we have a player's union or something like that that speaks on a collective behalf of the athlete and helps implement some of the things that we would like to say to make the sport better or more fair.

So that would be ideal If the fighters really did have a voice The athletes, you know, the employees We're not really employees We're 1099 We're independent contractors But it would be nice to kind of See the athletes

I guess go out to the negotiating table To really give you up this big eye That's been built and grown Over the last decade Do you think that'll ever happen Do you want to help make that happen? If I could help make that happen my effort would surely be there.

I don't know if I'm the guy that can, you know, coordinate that. I don't know who is, you know, out there trying to do that kind of stuff. You know, but for what I hear from a lot of the athletes right now, they all feel separated. They don't really feel like they know each other. I don't have emails for but five guys on the roster. There's, you know, 585 guys fighting for the UFC. So if anyone's going to bring them together and get them in one conversation,

it's going to be a lot of work to do that. But right now it seems like a situation where we're all very divided and UFC can easily conquer and move forward and implement their game plan without much say from us, whether we agree or disagree, whether we like or we don't like it. So I won't really weigh in on whether what they're doing is fantastic or whether it's well received by us or not. It's just a fact that, you know, I think a lot of guys feel that us not having a unified voice or even a voice at all at the negotiating table with a bit of us today.

Well, Brian, congratulations. Like I said, on a fine career. You had some great moments. You introduced the world to the cartwheel kick, as you mentioned, the harrow and some great fights as well. Again, I'll never forget, 127, that moment, that short-noticed fight against a streaking Chris Lytle. A lot of fun to watch you. And wow, you've really done it all. You've been all over the world. You fought for almost every organization. It's an amazing career, one certainly to be proud of. And you also introduced me to that crazy fan on Twitter, who, who stalked me and harassed me for several weeks leading up to fight. I hope he's happy wherever he is. Although he's disappeared. I don't know where he's been. Yes? My unofficial and I'm solicited PR manager, Jeff Winchell, huh?

There he is. Do you know this man? I've gotten a few messages from him. I get left two weeks than you, so it's easier to remember details like that. Yes, he loves you. Wow. That guy...

Yeah, he's persistent for last few weeks one day. Yes, well, we made it happen. It was after the fight, but, you know, interesting to talk. to you at this stage. Again, thank you very much for the time. Congrats on a great career, and I'm sure we'll talk to you very soon. All right. Thank you very much. Cheers, Ariel. Brian Ebersoll is stopping by, retiring after his 70th pro fight, 51, 17, 1-1. A fine career, as I said, some great moments, and always

an entertaining guy, has been there, has done it all, 34 years old. He says goodbye to active MMA competition, although, like any other fighter already, he's talking about his comeback. How about All right, we are running out of time, a very long show as far as interviews are concerned, nine interviews, and we went a little over time, so we are up against it. And I have made the executive decision to say goodbye to Inside the Vault, because I want to get your questions and comments. Inside the Vault this week was going to be the clip of Eddie Alvarez and, it was actually Eddie Alvarez calling into the show. No, no, no, excuse me. It was October of 2010. Scott Coker was a guest on this show. Eddie Alvarez called in to try to make the fight between Coker and Bjorn to try to make the Melendez-Alvarez fight a reality. Eddie was with Bellator, Gilbert was with Strikeforce, and it was a great moment in the history of our show.

In fact, the countdown to UFC 188 that just aired last night on FS1, it's online. You can see it on MAPFrient.com, actually used that clip in the countdown. And as I mentioned on Twitter, that's everything that I wanted Faber Edgar to be. That's the buildup that that fight needed. they did a fantastic job building up Alvarez Melendez. They showed old interviews, old clips. These are guys that have been talking about fighting each other for five years, much like Faber and Edgar.

They didn't do one of those for that fight. And they nailed it with Melendez and Alvarez. So that was inside the vault. I was going to replay that. I tweeted it last week. You probably saw it if you're watching the show. If not, just type in Eddie Alvarez, Gilbert, Melendez, Scott Coker on YouTube, and the MMA hour and the clip comes up.

I cannot wait for that fight. I'm very excited. And that's another fight that I think deserves a lot more attention than it is getting. For now, though, let us welcome in Mr. New York, Rick. Are you there? I'm here.

What up? Hello, hello. I feel like usually we talk earlier in the show and I apologize for not getting too sooner, but I had a lot of people I needed to talk to. It was very busy week. Yeah, I think we did a solid show. I don't think anybody's going to be mad about getting more content.

But you have some breaking news. We can go 10 minutes longer. Is that true? I've got the green light. Wow. How about that? While you're doing your job, I'm doing my job behind the scenes getting us that extra 10 minutes. Well, I appreciate it. Let's get to the questions. Okay.

On Saturday night, the smaller-sized octagon was used and there were a lot of exciting finishes. This seems to be becoming a bit of a trend on nights the smaller octagon is used. Do you believe this to be just a coincidence or is it fair to conclude the smaller cage, which provides less room for movement, forces fighters to engage much more often, which leads to more finishes and exciting fights? if this is the case, do you think there is any chance we see the smaller cage used more often or perhaps even a change in the size of what is considered to be the normal size cage? Well, Lamont 18, it is not a coincidence, it is not a freak thing.

You need to follow a man by the name of Reid Kuhn on Twitter. His Twitter handle is at Fightnomics, and he has written a pretty lengthy and detailed article, post, whatever you want to call it in this day and age, on the full-size UFC Octagon, versus the small UFC octagon and the finishing rate. In short, when they use the big one, and I believe the big one is 30 feet and the smaller one is 25 feet, if I'm not mistaken. Anyway, the finishing rate and the big one is 48%.

Smaller one is 60%. Pretty significant. Anyway, he writes a long article. He tweeted recently if you go on his Twitter page at Fightnomics, he has a complete breakdown of why the smaller cage leads to more finishes. By the way, I do think it is important

to tell the fighters beforehand. I think it does change the fight. Matt Matrione has been very vocal about this. I don't think he's going to use that in his excuse, but I think it's an important thing to note. If we're up to me, as a fan, if we can get more fights like Saturday night, of course, I'd love to see the smaller cage.

I could see some other people saying, wait a second, you want more violence, you want more knockouts, you know, in this day and age where we talk about head trauma and all that stuff. But look, we're watching MMA and seeing finishes, more fun. than seeing decisions. That's just the nature of this beast.

And also finishes don't necessarily mean knockouts. Right. You can get a submission as well. More often than not, as was the case in W.C. Where they used the smaller cage, it leads to more exciting fights. So I'm all for it. Maybe live it doesn't make for a better experience because it's a smaller playing field.

But on TV, it's 100% better, especially with the heavyweights. The greatest bet you can make, if you find out there's a small cage, look at every single heavyweight, fight, parlay them, and you'll make money that they won't go the distance. 100%. Yeah, I think, I mean, I almost don't see why not just switch to the smaller cage. I mean, I'm sure there will be some fighters who, you know, are more known for their footwork and being elusive and, you know, avoiding damage that might be upset by it, but I think they'd adapt

and I think that the smaller cage leads to more exciting fights. So let's just get the smaller cage in there. 100% agree. y'all must have forgot yes what's next for dan henderson yes this is becoming a real thing and i know you hate it like you hate all my things p m e y'all must have forgot but this i mean after handel's win let me clarify i love pm e i don't like i don't like it being dictated no no the people speak oh okay by the way i love it everyone's like oh it's dustin poria yancey medeiros first of all if you look at the pm e rule book if you miss wait see this is where you lose me first of all second of the second of

of all, did we not get the most entertaining, exciting fight at a Rothwell-Mittreon? I mean, look at what we're talking about here. So just listen to me. I'm never wrong. I am never wrong when it comes to PME suggestions or picking the fight that should be the PME. Just trust me. I know what you want better than you know what you want.

Anyway, Dan Henderson, wow, amazing. There might have never been or will ever be a better, y'all must have forgot, recipient or candidate than Dan Henderson. What's next for him? Do you agree with me, by the way, with what I said at the beginning of the show? What this taught me was, much like your guy, BJ Penn, the older guys, the legends, the future Hall of Famers, they don't have to fight the top five guys all the time. I feel like sometimes we're too quick to kick these guys out of the UFC because we're losing to the legit top five guys. What's wrong with Dan Henderson fighting the Tim Boaches of the world or, you know, someone in the top 20,

top 15? I'm down with that. If he can beat those guys, that's cool. And then let's see what happens. But, you know, when you see him fight these legit top five fighters and they lose much like BJ Penn, of course they're not going to look at their best because they're, A, a lot older than them, and they're just not as good at this point. They've been through a lot more. So I think that this might have opened our eyes to that. Well, no, it's a fine line to walk because they have to be complicit in that as well. I don't think Dan Henderson has aspirations to continue to fight the same level of talent for the rest of his career. He's in his mind, This is me guessing here, but guessing based on how many fighters are, he thinks that this is the first step in getting back to another win and getting back to a title. Nobody hangs around just to fight the mid-level guys. They want the eventual goal is to get a title shot, otherwise they're going to retire. So I think that unless the fighters become complicit in this and realize that that's the kind of level of competition that they can sustain, it's never going to be that way.

You know, I saw a lot of people talking about the Michael Bisping fight, and that's a great idea, but are we forgetting that he has a fight? He's booked. He's fighting next month. Now, if he wins, we could talk about that. I don't think Henderson's coming back anytime soon, but it's always very weird to me when people make, you know, their fantasy matchmaker stuff, and they just dismiss the fact.

Well, people just want to see that one so badly. Yeah, but he has to fight Talsallis, which is a very tough fight. Of course, I'd love to see the Bisping rematch. I mean, I think at this point, fun fights for Henderson, you know, let's just make fun fights. fights for him, you know, even a rematch against Belfort. I know that goes against everything I just said top three, but quite honestly, I don't think Belfort in this day and age is still going to be top three for very much longer. And also, and call me crazy here, are you against like a Robert

Whitaker type of fight, a younger guy ranked around the same coming up, trying to make a name for himself? If Henderson win, wow, you can really hang with young guys. If not, you potentially made a new star on Robert Wittaker. What's wrong with that? Fine with it. Perfectly fine with it. But you typically You typically like the legend versus legend fights. Well, yes, just because I think they're the most, like, I'll be honest, I think Robert Whitaker would beat him relatively easily. All right. I think he'd be able to avoid the punch, but, you know, many have tried and many have failed. So I'm sure, I mean, Henderson always has a chance just because the power is still there.

But I'd prefer, I'd much prefer to see him fight somebody who's more of a veteran and somebody who's closer to his. his station. Bottom line, it was a wonderful moment. It made us all shut up about the retirement stuff. And you can see... I mean, I still don't want to see him fight, to be honest. Well, you know, I mean, just for now, look, if you would have lost that fight, it would have been a much different tone here on this show. It was nice, regardless of what you may think, and I agree, it would be the best case scenario, he says goodbye right now. You know, he does what Brian Ebersol said he wishes he would have done. But I will say it was cool seeing Hendo, celebrate, being happy. it, he's a legend. I wish that, you know, for his own sake, health that if he, if he needs to take that time, I wish he does it. But it was a nice moment. You can't deny that. No, I mean,

it's much better than the alternative. Let's see a happy hendo, but, I mean, anytime now, please. Yes. Next heavyweight number one contender, is it steep Amioch, is it Andre Arlowski, or is it Ben Rothwell? And if Fabricio Verduem beats, beats Cane Velasquez decisively, wouldn't Junior dos Santos bypass all of them and get next in line? Look, if Verdum wins, I wouldn't be a game, a rematch because I want to see how it happens, but I think Kane, to a degree, deserves that. Now, I disagree with Ben Rothwell. I'd like to see Arlofsky get the title shot. I've said this on the show before, and I want to see Miyoch-fight fight Rothwell as the number one contender fight. Though Santos still kind of up in the air with his injuries, whenever he returns, I want to see him

fight Alistair Overeem. All of a sudden, heavyweight has become interesting. Credit to Rothwell, even if Mitrium would have won, he would have made it interesting. Arlofsky's return has been completely out of nowhere, and that's been a lot of fun to watch as well. Miochich as well, I think is still very much a player. But if I'm booking it, let's just say Cain wins. Have Your Mendez is correct, and boy, is he confident. I would do Kane versus Arlovsky, Rothwell versus Mioch, JDS versus Overeem. All right, let's move quickly. We got 10 minutes. Did Annick ruin or enhance the shockmaster moment with Ben Rothwell? I like that. Shockmaster. Even I know that one. Yeah, that's a classic. Tom Lawler did it once at the Wayne.

initially I was like, oh man, you know, look, my number one rule, I hate criticizing fellow members of the media or, you know, TV people. It's a tough thing. You're on the spot. It's live TV. Very few people really understand. I don't even understand. I've never been in that spot before. It's a very hard thing to do. And he does a fantastic job. In the moment, I was like, wow, I wish he would have walked off. Kind of like the Daniel Cormier thing. But he wasn't very decisive in the way he did it, you know, and who knows who's talking in John's ear. But now that it all unfolded and I've had a chance to rewatch it a thousand times, it just makes the whole thing even better. The fact that he wasn't ready for it, he does the little like what, and he's like trying to think about what he's going to say now, his answers, the change in his demeanor. I loved it.

And let's go on the record right now. You hated it, right? It was bad. That is shocking to me. Not into it. Can you people not have fun? Can we not just have fun? It makes you cringe.

It's not fun. That's fun. Cringing is fun. Yes. This is a man finding. himself coming into his own. This is a fun thing. I love this.

Come on. Everything about it. That interview, you didn't think that was entertaining? He's an incredibly entertaining guy. Depends on what you mean by entertainment. I mean, it was so bad it was good, I guess, but it was so bad.

But that's good. No. Hey, look, like he said, it got people talking, right? And I'm not putting any blame on Anick. Rothwell should have grabbed the mic and dropped it, just like he said. He said that to you on the show.

Sure, sure. That's what he should have done. Yeah, I'm not blaming it. But it got people talking about Ben Rothwell in 2015. So at the end of the day, he did what he had to do. And shout out to the guy

who last week told me I say, ended the day too much. I think I may have cut back on this show. I'm trying. If Verdoom meets Kane on Saturday, he will have wins over two guys

who are looked at as the best heavy weights of all time in Kane and Fador. Do you think a win puts Verdome into the talk of the best heavy weight of all time? Wow, that's a good question. Yeah, I guess it does.

His resume is pretty impressive. Yeah. One of those guys who, we kind of left for dead, knocked out by JDS, UFC 90. Remember that? JDS with that full head of hair. Although it was LeBron-esque, the head of hair, right? I mean, there were some patches.

It was receding, but he's... Sure. It was thick and luscious. Well, he didn't go the hair plug route. Are you trying to take shots at it? No, I'm just saying. I'm just calling it like I see it. Yes, I would have to agree.

Yes, he does go into that discussion. UFC champion, heavyweight champion. Haven't been many of those. He's looked amazing. returning to the UFC, beat Fedor, first guy to do it officially, or I guess unofficially, but really officially in all our books. So yeah. I 100% agree. There's a conversation to be had there if he can pull that off. Now, that depends on which cane Velasquez is there. If we get a healthy cane, then yeah, that's a hell of a kind of accomplishment. Greatest heavyweight of all

time right now. Fyodor. Kane. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Okay, interim titles. Just curious to know your thoughts on the need for interim titles. If Kane is to win this coming weekend, Verdume will forever be known as never being the real champion, where Cormier will always be a part of the line of heavyweight champions, whether we agree with it or not.

It's a shame for Vodum, I'm sorry, and past their interim champions such as Carlos Condon to not have the same recognition as Daniel Cormier. Interim titles were needed in the past, but is now the time to get rid of them and only grant that an official championship matchup after a champion has. been inactive for over a year, or has this qualified him, such as John, himself, such as John Jones? Well, you know my stance. If you're not fighting for a year, if you don't have a fight booked, you should be stripped, right? But how do you feel about just dropping interim titles altogether?

Just, you're the champ. Well, here's the thing. If you get injured in six months, seven months, eight months, then you shouldn't be stripped. But if you're going to be gone for 20 months, 15 months, 17 months, then, yes, you should be stripped. So, so basically, if, let's say, okay, let's say Cain fights right now. want to put it on him. Let's say Mr. X fights Mr. Y on Saturday and he becomes the champion. And then he gets, he has a fight booked for October, but he gets injured in September. Well, you shouldn't put an

interim title fight. But if he gets injured again and he can't fight until, you know, August or September next year, then at that point, you need to strip it and make it an official fight, an official title fight. I understand why they do interim because you want to bill it as a title fight, you want to sell it on pay-per-view, and the title versus title fight means, like, a lot more. But think about this. Is Verdume going into this fight as the interim because once the champion is back, there's no more interim. That placeholder is gone. So it really kind of isn't champion versus champion in a weird way if we're going to get technical. I'm okay with it if...

Well, I think that's his point. He's saying, or she, but it does say Miguel, is saying that there's no use for the interim title. Or that designation. From a marketing perspective, from a promotional perspective, you need that because Hunt versus Verdeen. For Doom doesn't have the same ring to it as heavyweight title fight. You get what I'm saying? Of course. But then let's just call everything a title fight.

Well, I was in favor of that, by the way. But sometimes they bring them in a little early. I don't know. It's all very weird. All I'm saying is, bottom line, if you can't fight within a year, they need to give it to someone else. And I agree with Javier, when you're ready to come back, you get the title fight without a doubt.

What are your thoughts on the UFC booking Kormier Gustafin when Gustafin is coming off a loss, and Bader is on a windstreet? especially after the Cormier-Bader fight was gaining a bit of traction. Is it safe to assume the UFC is doing this to guarantee there is a big fight for John Jones for return to? I think that's the line of thinking. I've talked about this at length on MMA beat. I think that this was, you know, from a pure sport standpoint,

not the right call. And when you throw in the fact that Bader did a great job in selling the fight, press conference, all that stuff, I would have liked to see him get it. But I understand why they're doing it. I understand it's no knock on Gustafson. look, I understand that they want to put themselves in the best spot possible for the John Jones return fight, big John Jones return fight, and Bader Jones 2 doesn't do the same kind of thing as Gustafson Jones 2. I get it.

But from a pure athletic standpoint, if we want to consider this, you know, real sport, the guy on a four-fight winning streak deserves it more than the guy who just got knocked out. I don't see how you can argue that. Gilbert Melendez and Eddie Alvarez's fight has been years in the making. Yes. It is a fight between two exciting and super tough fighters. Is it being overlooked as a potential classic or just a victim of being on the same card as the heavyweight unification showdown?

Talk about why you're excited for this battle. I am so excited for this fight because we've been legitimately talking about it for five years and maybe even more than that. Two guys who were champions in different organizations who at one time, many considered to be top two, top three, number one. They have a history. Remember those two interviews earlier this year

where they were going back and forth? Eddie was calling him like a cheerleader and all this stuff. I mean, these guys don't like. each other. It's great. You got a Melendez versus an Alvarez fighting in Mexico. You can't beat this kind of thing. Alvarez needs to get back on track. Melendez needs to get back on track. You know, do they still have it at this stage in their career? It's flying under the radar. It's going to be fantastic. We'll be talking about it this time next week on this show about how great, how much fun it was. And I suspect come Wednesday, Thursday, it will ramp up and we'll recognize that

we've been sleeping on something. And why are we sleeping on it? There's just too much going on. I mean, we really have five days to get ready for these fights at this point, and it's hard to look ahead. So now it's time for 188, and now we can start getting excited about it. The guest we had on today, Darren Till, because of Till and Dealing himself to Brazilian fans, do you think that Till has the potential to be a British and Brazilian poster boy? He's brilliant.

Yes, he should fight in England and Brazil as much as possible. I'm a big fan of what he's doing. Great story, too. Great accent. Love that Liverpool accent. Okay, we're going to move on to Twitter. First question, who do you think was the breakout star of Fight Night New Orleans? Personally, thought it was Brian Ortega.

Hmm. That's a good question. Is it weird to say Ben Rothwell? No. I think that's fair. I mean, that was a breakout performance in the sense that like... I think there was a momentum there with the dance and everybody kind of... Look, there was a lot going on on Saturday. We have to talk about Dustin Poirier, fantastic performance. he continues to look great. The move to 155 has served them very well. Brian Ortega, Tiago Tavares, was an amazing, exciting,

just a jam-packed action fight. A lot of fun to watch. Anthony Burchack, knocking out Joe Soto in a little over 90 seconds, incredible as well, and I'm excited about Birchak and the UFC. Francisco Rivera coming off, you know, the eye injury, a player, a name to remember at 135. Sean Jordan getting back on track. Chris Wade is a guy that I'm excited about.

Big Knicks fan as well, so much props to him. Joe Proctor had a nice buzzer, beat, or win. So there were a lot of great performances. You know, not the biggest names, but young guns who are climbing the ladder, all of those were breakout to a degree. Can't really pinpoint one. I'm going to go with Brian. I think that performance was pretty special.

For a guy who it looked like was probably down to, oh, no, actually, I think the score cards came out and it was a draw going into that third round. I think it was 1919. and 2018 for Ortega and 2018 for Tavares. So hell of a performance in that third round. Who should be next for Poree? You were just speaking about him. And which of these three post-fight interviews is the best?

Cormier's, Wiedmans, or Rathwells? Oh, I can't. I just can't. I can't pick that. Too tough. Who's next for Porea? Porre. Who, it's tough because I don't.

look at these names in the top 15 and they would kind of be taking a step back. Like, I Quinta Green, that winner, should he take a step forward? Maybe that one. I like that fight, but I think... The jury Barbosa winner? Yeah, something like that. Yeah. Cormier's was the best.

Yeah. All right. That's it, I think. That's it for... Oh, no, wait. Here we go. Does Henry Sehudo deserve a title shot with a win over Chico Camus? Wow, what a great question.

what a great question to end on. This is a fight that is incredibly important. Very interesting as well. This is the featured fight on the FS1 prelims. It's this Saturday. And I was talking about this on UFC tonight last week. Is it possible that Henry Sehudo can sneak in and get that title shot? No one seems to want it.

No one's grabbed that brass ring in the flyweight division. You know, if he wins and does so impressively, it's going to be hard to deny him because, again, as I said, no one has grabbed it, but I don't want to see him get it this soon. I think he needs one or two more fights. I want him to be at his best when he fights for the belt. So if it was up to me at this point, I would just go, I would just go with John Dodson. Sell the fight, get the rivalry out of the way. That's the fight, but I'm really looking forward to it. There are some interesting fights on this card. Kelvin Gaslin making the move up to 185. He was forced to go up to 185 against Nate Marquart.

Is this do or die for Nate Marquart? Charles Rosa is a name to remember as well. He's looked very good in the UFC against Yehira Rodriguez, who's a big star. He was on tough Latin America. Angela Hill versus Tisha Torres. Ephrine Escadero returning to Mexico as well. Again, this one's sleeping. This one's on the radar.

It's a sleeper card, but in many ways, it's more interesting than 180 than their debut in Mexico. So I'm excited about it. I'll be there, full force. No Lucha Libre for me this time, but...

I will be there on Wednesday. What's the pick? What's the pick to click on Saturday? You got something for us? Let's take a look real quick, betting odds. Anything that jumps out? No, maybe Eddie Alvarez. He's an underdog to Gilbert Melendez.

That might be an interesting one. Wow. I don't know. If I think anything, I'll tweet it. Wow. What a tease. What a tease that is? Yeah, follow me on Twitter and then maybe you'll get some picks.

All right. That does it. We're out of time. You can hit my music. Fitting music, right? A little salsa. They dance to this stuff in Mexico, don't they? I think so.

It has a little, you know. Can't wait. By the way, I can't wait to hear Kane's walkout song. I mean, I'm assuming he's kept the same one. It's not going to change. change it at this point. Walk out with a flag over his fist. Amazing. Of course, I have to thank our good friends over at NOS Energy for supporting the show once again. Thank you very much to them for sponsoring the MMA hour. Follow them on Twitter at NOS Energy Drink. Find a NOS near you at

at find NOS.com. Hashtag with this NOS I will follow them on Twitter at NOS Energy Drink once again. They do great work. UFC 188, five days away, my friends. It's amazing. Dan Henderson, great job. All right, forget about you. Let's move on to the next one. That's the way it goes in today's day and age.

I want to thank everyone who stopped by. I want to thank everyone who tuned in. I want to thank Luke Barnat. Best of luck to him. Good luck in his future endeavors. Best of luck to Ryan Bader as well. And obviously getting that fight against Rashad Evans. And thank you very much to him for coming on to talk about

a pretty big bummer. All the best to Travis Tygart. Great hearing from him as well. The CEO of the United States Anti-Doping Agency. Great stuff from OSPO, Vince Prue. Good luck to him. Darren Till. Best of luck to him.

Javier Mendez. Good luck on Saturday. Ben Roppo. Great stuff. Congratulations. Best of luck to Hal Pendred. And finally, happy trails to Brian Ebersol. Congrats on a great career.

We'll see you next week. Peace, I, Mario. Support for this show comes from Odu. Running a business is hard enough. So why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? Introducing Odu. It's the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all-in-one fully integrated platform that makes your work easier,

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