MMA Fighting - The MMA Hour - Episode 287

Episode Date: June 22, 2015

Ariel Helwani speaks to Dan Henderson, Gilbert Melendez, Makwan Amirkhani, Rafael Cordeiro, Michael Chandler, Joe Schilling, and John Pollock. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Logan, everyone. I'm Mario Hawani. Inside our New York City studio, a beautiful day here in New York City. Summer is finally here. Everyone's in such a good mood. I am in a great mood, although I am under the weather. Who, am I under the weather? I believe it was New York Rick himself, who got me sick last week.

fighting it, my friends. I am fighting through it. I'm fighting through it like Kimbo's Slice, fighting through a Ken Chammrock rear naked choke. That's what's happening here. I guarantee at the end of this show, I will not have a voice. But you know what?

I would rather be nowhere else in the world than right here right now talking mixed martial arts with all of you because what an entertaining weekend we had in the world of MMA. Before we get to all of that, I want to wish all the fathers out there.

A happy belated Father's Day. I hope you had a great day with your family, your loved ones, your kids, your wife, girlfriend, whatever, a belated happy Father's Day to all the great dads who are a fan of this show, supporters of this show. And also, an early happy birthday to Mama Nose. Mama Nose turning 36 years young on Wednesday. Happy birthday to her. Now, speaking of that entertaining weekend in MMA, what a weekend it was, it started Friday.

Beltaire 138 in St. Louis, Kimbo Slice fighting through a rear naked choke. Who knew Kimbo Slice had that kind of sub-defense? What a strange match that was, and I can't tell you how many people who typically don't talk to me about MMA over the past 48 hours have come up to me and said,

so I saw that Kimbo Slice fight on Friday, asking me a whole array of weird questions about it, but it certainly caught the attention of a lot of people. On a quiet night in sports, of course, they dodged a major bullet with the Golden State Warriors finishing the NBA finals in game six. So they dodged that major bullet. They were pretty much alone on Friday.

Kimbo Slice somehow, some way, defeating Ken Shamrock. We'll get into that, of course, later on the show. And then Saturday afternoon in Berlin, Germany, Yawanna Janjacheck continues to prove that she is the breakout star of 2015, continues to prove that she is as dominant a champion as there is right now in MMA, she completely annihilated Jessica Peney and what a performance it was. In the cage, as far as the fighting was concerned, post-fight interview was just as entertaining.

If you ask me, she is a lot of fun to watch, and that was a fun card in Berlin as well. So we have a lot to get to on today's show. Another busy weekend coming up. Before we get to today's rundown, let me remind you that today's episode of the M&M. MMA Hour is presented by NOS. There they are. Do something epic. Go make your mark on the world. Hashtag with this Noss I will.

Follow them on Twitter at NOS Energy Drink. Okay, who's joining us on today's episode of the MMA hour? Well, before we get to who's joining us, I remind you once again that we will take your questions and comments at around 3.30. Head us up using the hashtag the MMA hour. Also, I want to take some phone calls today. So we have some time. The number to call is 1-888-4-8-8-8-8.

48-4074. 1-8-48-4-1-8-407-4. 305, we're going to talk to Makwan Amirakani. Big win for him. He called it. Emotional win as well. We'll talk to him at 305. 245. We'll talk to Joe Schilling. He returns at Bellator 139 on Friday. We'll talk to Michael Chandler, who had a great win. First win in almost two years on Friday. We'll talk to him at 225. 205. We're going to talk to Gilbert Melendez. He's back in action. July 15th. He's going to fight Ally Quinta. 145, we're going to talk to Hafeel Cordero, head coach over at King's MMA. He turned Fabio Verduem and Hafele do Sanjos

into UFC champions. 125, we're going to talk to John Pollack, who, of course, will help us break down everything that happened this past weekend from the Kimbo-Slicse win to Patricia Pitbull's comeback win to the dominant, one-sided wins for the likes of Michael Chandler and Daniel

Daniel Strauss, also to a degree Bobby Lashley, who's an interesting story in his own right. And then what happened Saturday in Berlin as well. So we'll talk to the fight network's John Pollock at around 125, excuse me. And at 1 o'clock, we're going to be joined by Dan Henderson. One o'clock is right now. So we should be joined by him in a matter of moments. Of course, the last time we saw Dan Henderson in action was around three weeks ago in New Orleans. speaking of turning back the clock, Hendo did that and then some. People were counting him out.

People were ready to write the final chapter in his career. And he goes out there at 44 years young and obliterates Tim Boch in just 28 seconds. It was a great performance. It was a great win. Everyone's still very excited about it. So we are honored to have him on the show for just a couple minutes here. We're talking, of course, to Dan Henderson, first up on the MMA hour. Dan, how are you? Good. How are you doing? I'm doing great. Congratulations on the win. Is the victory tour over? I feel like you've been traveling all

over the place since that big win. Are you done? Almost. Yeah, I'd had a little family vacation for myself and then a family vacation right away. So usually it's up to schedule things like that and, bless I know I've got a fight. So I usually schedule them right after a fight. Well, you certainly deserved it. And you schedule those vacations win or lose, right? I mean, if things don't go your way, you're still going to go on them, still enjoy life.

Yeah, I mean, the family still wants to go on vacation. It's not, you know, not all dependent on winning and losing. But I'm sure you enjoy them more after a big win like that. Oh, absolutely. It was a much better vacation after a win like that than a loss for sure. You have had so many great wins in your career. Of course, you're one of the legends, first ballot hall famer, et cetera, et cetera.

And this wasn't the most high profile fight. You know, there was no belt at stake and all that stuff. It was a fight night show in New Orleans. But would you say, considering all the talk about you being at the end of the road and all that, for you to come out and win in 28 seconds and prove that you are still very much a player in this sport, was this one of the more gratifying wins of your entire career? I wouldn't say it my entire career, but yeah, I was very gratifying.

find, you know, kind of, you know, I guess something to prove myself as well as, you know, fans or anyone else that had doubt. But, you know, I'm still able to compete with the top guys in the sport. You know, I know that Tim Burch wasn't, you know, ranked as high as some other guys that I fought, but, you know, he's dangerous. And, yeah, I don't think he's been stopped like that before. so. When you say something...

It was nice to fish like that. When you say something to proof yourself, did you start to let all the critics and doubters get to you a little bit? No, but, you know, it's... My age is getting up there. You know, I know that I've had to change certain things with training and, you know, just to make sure I'm still doing the right things and with training, with learning,

and, you know, I felt great this fight. And, you know, it was good to have changed up some coaches in the last year, so it's been a very positive change. What's the biggest thing you change in training? Well, I just had to do less of certain things to not beat my body up as much and still be able to get my cardio and some good sparring in. Yeah, that's the biggest thing. And then, like I said, changing up coaches has definitely been a positive thing as well.

You have such a calm, cool, and collected demeanor. Your disposition is great. And all these people asking questions leading up to your fight about, you know, whether you should retire. Now, you have a great ability to just, you know, shrug them off. Deep down, does that stuff ever bother you, that talk? No, not at all, actually. So, I mean... It's amazing.

I don't have the ability to shrug it off, but it's just... I know what I'm capable of doing, and, you know, to get out there and do it is a good thing, you know, when I know I'm capable of doing something, and I'm actually able to go out there and do it was great. You know, which I wasn't able to do in my fight against Missossia. I mean, I felt great then, and just had some bad luck that day. And, you know, I felt like I didn't get a chance to fight, you know. So it was good to be able to go out there and do what I know I'm capable of doing. But when you have all these people almost trying to push you out the door and you know that you feel good

and you know that you're still, you know, a player and that you're doing well in training, you never want to blow up, you never want to tell people, can you just give me a chance to prove myself? Have you forgotten what I've done? That never comes to mind? No, I mean, because it is, I've been in the sport a long time, and the sport is based on your last performance is what most people, remember and uh you know i haven't had the best uh best of luck with fights and and the best of outcomes the last couple years so you know i understand where they're coming from you know so it wasn't like uh i wasn't expecting that but at the same time i know that uh we don't care of all doing

and you know i believe in myself so that's the biggest thing My favorite part of the whole fight wasn't the actual win, the knockout, all that stuff. It was your celebration afterwards, the big scream that you let out. It looked to me, and correct me if I'm wrong, like there was some relief there, but also jubilation as well. I mean, you are always very happy when you win, but this seemed a little more. Am I accurate or am I off here? Well, I don't know. You might be accurate.

Yeah, I mean, it's a relief to have the fight go the way you planned and expected and hope and, you know, with all the naysayers involved as well, it was probably a little extra relief there, but, you know, I think it's not that often that I've had that explosive and quick of a knockout. So I think all that had a part in being a little bit of an extra celebratory. So it was nice. What's it like being a pro fighter and you prepare for all these. weeks, months for a fight. You get in there. Your adrenaline is going

crazy. Your hype, all that stuff. The crowd is going nights. And it ends in 28 seconds. Do you feel like you were fulfilled or do you feel afterwards when you get to the locker room like you still have something to get out? No. I mean, the outcome is what fulfills you, I guess. And, you know,

I've had my share of wars and battles and long fights and, you know, I'll take as many as these short ones as I can. you know, it's a lot easier that way. Yeah. Did you mess up your hand in the fight? I was a little bit sore,

I think I might have just sprained my thumb a little bit, and it's completely better now. I'm actually going to be sparring in practice today, so... Oh, wow. So no real break. I mean, two weeks later, three weeks later, you're right back at it. Yeah, I just got back into town last night,

actually. I haven't been home since before my fight, so... Um, got back last night, or Saturday night, I should say, and then, yeah, I'll be back just today. No major injuries to report from the fight. Nope, nothing at all. Just, you know, had a little bit of a sore thumb, but it was fine. Does that mean you want to get right back in there?

Yeah, I mean, I'll probably, uh, want to get back in there October, November, have a fight again. Who comes to mind? What is it? Uh, I don't know. I think, you know, the two guys I'd like to fight, I guess, would be Vitor and Masasi. Masasi, you know, not for any other reason other than I felt like they didn't get to fight him. And Vitor, I just, yeah, it'd be nice to fight him in the States without his doctor as the head of the Athletic Commission. Right.

Have you expressed that to the UFC? Not yet. I mean, I just got back into town, so I really haven't really given up much, much thought, or even worried about it, you know, but, you know, I felt a little bit of bothered over the last couple weeks, and, you know, I think that those are two guys, I think the fans would like to see as well.

Did you watch Vitor's fight against Chris Wyman, and were you shocked at how different he looked? Yeah, you know, physically he looked quite a bit differently, you know, is, you know, stamina went away pretty quick as well. So, yeah, and I'm sure he works hard, but, you know, so do I. But, you know, I don't know, my body hasn't changed in 10 years. So I'm not exactly sure what was making his body change like that, but it wasn't the same thing I was doing.

Did you notice after your fight that Tim Kennedy kind of, propositioned you, said he wanted to fight you in front of the troops later on this year. Did you see that? Do you have any interest in that? Yeah, I think I saw that. Yeah, I wasn't overly interested in fighting him. I liked him. You know, he represents a sport well,

and, you know, I just don't think it would be an exciting of a fight for the fans. How come? Just with his style. in mine and it doesn't, I don't know. You know, and like I said, I kind of wanted to either have a rubber match with Vitor or actually be able to fight in selfie. There's this groundswell of support and enthusiasm over the idea of you versus Bisping 2 at UFC 200.

Are you interested in that at all? because it's hard to recreate what you did to him at UFC 100, but do you think that's something that would be fun? No, I mean, I have, you know, no desire to even, I don't even think it's worth doing to have a rematch with him, you know, and I could never top what I did the last time. Yeah. You know, so why diminish that?

I mean, even if I knocked him out again, it wouldn't be nearly as gratified. five to the fans as the first time. So, yeah, and it's fun for me to kind of have him know that he'll never be able to make up for that or change in it. You like that idea. Why give him the opportunity? Yeah, why not? Yeah.

How many fights left do you have on your contract? Is it three now? I've got two left. Two left. So we'll see what happens with these two fights and then go from there. I'm not sure what will happen after those two fights. But it's getting closer to the end, that's for sure. Well, I remember seeing an interview with you on UFC tonight,

and you said you had three more fights going into the Tim Boch fight on your contract, and you said that you wanted to finish out the contract, and then that'll be it. But now that you look so good in this fight, have you started to rethink that? No, I still have the same thoughts. And I said it could possibly be it, which, you know, it still could be it after two more. We'll see.

It's just a matter how things play out. And, you know, what kind of job opportunities I have afterwards, obviously I want to still stay in the sport and, you know, help build the sport even more than what it's become and still coach. So, you know, we'll see. Other than coaching, of course, you own a gym in California, Other than that, do you have any ideas?

Do you think you'll be doing more that we don't know about? Anything that comes to mind? No, we'll see. You know, I really haven't given it detailed a lot, but, you know, I don't... You know, obviously it's something I need to speak to BFC about and see what we'll come up with. When you got in...

When I decided to retire, but we'll see. When you got into this crazy... sport in 97. Did you think you'd fight for almost 20 years into your mid-40s? Was that part of the plan? Oh, not at all. You know, I had fought, I think, my first pride fight and told the media that I'll probably be doing it for about a year.

I had no goals in the sport other than to make a little bit of money and move on. And, you know, within that time, I'd basically fallen in love to sport and really love. the challenge of it and, you know, learning new things, and I'm still learning new things, you know, 17 years later.

So, you know, it's, you know, something that I'm, that I'm happy to have been a part of the growth of the sport and, and to watch the sport,

you know, really change into a sport, an actual sport now, and it's been people consider a sport. So, yeah, it's been, good evolution to be a part of.

Do you have any idea what you would have done if this wasn't available to you? I don't know. Either coach or, yeah, I was going to, I was accepted and didn't go into chiropractic school, but that was one of the plans that I was

going to maybe do. You know, it's fun. Every time you post a picture, especially, you know, after a win, a celebratory moment, you know, you're, you know, you obviously, you look like you're in your mid-40s, you've been through a lot of wars. You're there with your team, your family, your wife. I love looking at the comments because it feels like you are this inspirational hero for middle-aged men. Like they want to live vicariously through you. You're like

the toughest man in the world. You know, you go into a cage, you beat people up in your mid-40s. You have a beautiful wife. You have a great team behind you. Do you view yourself that way as well? Like, you get the sense that a lot of these, you know, kids could look up to you, 20-year-olds. That's all cool. And I'm sure they show you a lot of respect. but in particular now to middle-aged men, you seem to be the ultimate hero to them. Do you get that sense as well? Yeah, a little bit.

I mean, I'll get more and more comments like that, you know, in person talking to people, hey, I'm your age, I'm around your age, and, you know, I just love how you're representing us old guys, however they said. And, you know, I do get that sense quite a bit more the last few years, you know, especially the older I get, I'm sure, you know, that will happen even more.

What do you make of all the changes that are happening in the sport come next month, the Reebok deal, the drug testing and all that? Are you in favor of all these changes? Who would have thought in 97 that this would be a part of the UFC? Well, I'm absolutely in favor of the drug testing. You know, I've been wanting or going for for years. You know, it's good that it's finally here. doing it

at some level. Yeah, I'm undecided about to re-bock deal as of yet. You know, I don't think it's you know, quite the best model that they've come up with

as far as the pay structure goes on that. And a lot of... Most of the fighters will be taking a pay cut to where we bought. Would you take one as well? Would you be taking one? Yeah. Of course.

Okay. So it's a wait-and-see approach on that front. Yeah, for sure. Two last quick things. I saw in a picture that you were hanging out with former wrestling star Chuck Palumbo. What's your connection to him? Oh, my agent represents him, and we had launch, and good dude. And, you know, we're probably going to do a little bit of stuff for his TV show.

at some point. What shows that? He's got a show called The Lord of the Car Hordes. Okay. And, you know, it's actually a pretty interesting show, pretty neat, and they go in and build a car out of

one of their cars that somebody has in their junkyard. We're planning on building over years and just kept on it and never did it. You know, they show off a bunch of the old one. Other stuff, a lot of the guys your heart and make enough money to build his dream power. Wow, okay. And one last thing I just wanted to know, do you have an update on your teammate Tarek Safedine?

It seems like he's been battling injuries. Have you seen him? I know you just got back to the gym, but do you have any idea if he has weathered the injury storm at this point? You know, I think he's slowly getting back in there and training more and more. So hopefully that's the end of his injuries. I know that he was. wanting to be careful coming back and go slowly. He's been doing more grappling than anything to try and not hurt things.

But, yeah, I'll know more today when I get into practice. All right. Well, again, congratulations, Dan. Appreciate the time very much. It was inspirational stuff. One of the great moments of this past year your win over Tim Boch.

I wish you all the best in the coming fights. I'm sure I'll talk to you soon. And again, thank you for the time. And good luck in sparring today. All right, thanks very. I appreciate it. All right, we'll talk to you soon. There he is. The one and only, the incomparable Dan Henderson. What a win for him on June 6th in New Orleans.

Turning back the clock, as we said, a signature win for him. Never quite did it like that before, and now it has injected some new life into his legendary career. I like to use the term first ballot hall of famer. I mean, I don't even know if that really exists in this sport, But if there is ever a MMA Hall of Fame, now that the UFC Hall of Fame is cleaning up its act, Dan Henderson has a place in there 100%. I don't care if he never wins the UFC title.

He has done enough two-time two-division champion in pride. And, I mean, just his longevity and his fights. I mean, a part of one of the greatest fights of all time against Shogun Huah, UFC 139, on maybe the greatest night in M.A. history, if you remember, that was the same night as Michael Chandler versus Eddie Alvarez. So the resume is as extensive as it gets. It's as legendary as it gets. And I like a world, even though, you know, look, you could say, hey, you don't want the guy to get hurt. You'd maybe like to see him go out on a high note. It's a better world when the legends like Dan Henderson are winning and doing it, you know, at the highest level.

And we don't have to see them get knocked out and have to talk about, you know, oh, you know, should they retire? Is it time? Those are uncomfortable discussions. And no one likes to have them, especially when dealing with the legends. So thank you very much to Dan Henderson. And now it is time to move along. Let us rewind. Let's talk about this weekend.

There is so much that went on this weekend. What an entertaining weekend it was. Belator on Friday. of course before the event on Friday in St. Louis, they announced a hybrid show with Glory. On September 19th in San Jose, there's going to be a cage and a kickboxing ring inside the SAP Center. It's going to be like old-school WCW War Games. There's going to be some Bellator MMA fights. There's going to be some glory kickboxing matches.

It's going to be all under the Bellator slash Glory umbrella. They're calling it dynamite. It's back at the SAP Center. So Coker goes back. A special shout out to an unnamed Bellator PR official, who, when I broke this news on Thursday, was quick to tell me and the colleagues that were in St. Louis covering the event for M.A.Fighting.com that I was wrong. Of course, as I said to him, I was not wrong. Perhaps the story was missing a few details here and there. And that's a whole other story for a different day, but I was 100% not wrong. And I want to give him a special shout out because, in this business when you tell someone that you're wrong. That's pretty much the biggest insult you can give a reporter. And I've never been wrong and I don't plan on being wrong. So I didn't appreciate that text message,

but that's a different discussion for a different day and probably a private one. For now, let us move along and welcome in our next guest. He is my good Canadian friend. He is in Toronto, Ontario. He is one of the voices and faces of the Fight Network in Canada who are killing it with their UFC coverage and combat sports coverage in general.

I'm talking about John Pollock, Joe Poe, is in the house right now. John, how are you? Ariel Hawani. I feel whenever you have me on the show, I always get you in those mood. The last time I was on, it was right after CM Punk was announced officially by the UFC, and then what a little tidbit there for everybody taking us behind the scenes of Ariel Hawani's life. I love it. Hey, you know what I'm talking about. You can't just throw around the you're wrong

when in fact you're not wrong. You can't throw that out. That's just completely irresponsible, right? Am I right? Well, I think it's a lot of times It's just it's a pride thing Where it's like we want to break our own news And sometimes it gets out And believe me, that exists In both facets as I look at both professional wrestling

And mixed martial arts But yes, I don't want to bore our listeners With our little lives But yeah, lots from this past weekend To take away with not the least of which was The announcement which Ariel Hawani broke Yes, well that's I wasn't even going to bring that part

up. I hate that sort of thing, but the accusation pissed me off. Anyway, let's go in order. Let's start with Friday. Let's start with the announcement. Do you like this? Do you think this is a smart thing for Bellator, partnering with Glory, a hybrid show on Spike TV, back in San Jose, the one-night tournament, light heavyweight contenders, the title fight, Tito Ortiz, Liam McGarry. Do you like what they presented to the public on Friday? I like anything that is different that is at least going to garner some interest from fans. I think that this more than anything is kind of trying to prop up glory to an extent, which, I mean, most people that watch the shows very much enjoy them, but they haven't found the volume of viewers at this point to make it a product that is crossing through. So I think very much glory is going to be piggybacking off of Bellator for this particular event.

And on Bellator's side of things, it's all in the stars that they can get onto this card. And I think we're seeing that with the rollout of the announcement of who's in this tournament and then couple of things. coupling that with Joe Schilling and Paul Daly on the glory side of things, that the hope is that this is going to bring in a lot of bellatory eyes, a lot of glory eyes, and hopefully a lot of cross-pollination where both are going to leave with more viewers. That would probably be the ultimate hope of this event on September 19th. And you can make the case that the two most exciting fighters that were announced on Friday are the ones who are competing in the glory matches, right? Paul Daly and Joe Schilling and kickboxing I think is great. I mean, of course,

I'm a big fan of watching Lee McGee and some of the others, but I think this is definitely a plus for Glory to be associated with an MMA brand so you're going to get MMA people talking about you, have Koker talking about you. It's good for their curating. It's good for what they're trying to do and trying to get their name out there to as many combat sports fans as possible, not just kickboxing fans. Now, am I the only one? I have to believe that you thought a war games as well, right? There's only two rings, not three, like back in the day in WCW, but this is WCWSK, right? No, this is a complete tribute to Dusty Road. I think we can break it down as easily as

that is an influence here from South Coker. So, okay, so then they have that announcement, and I think it's great when everyone's talking about you and all eyes are on you to announce what's next, and then they go into the fight. What did you make? You know, it feels like, okay, they're getting into their groove as to what the tent poll events, quote, unquote, will look like. What did you make of the entrances, you know, the ramp, the stage, the video board, just the presentation as far as Belator is concerned. Do you like what they're doing?

I loved it. I thought the production instantly grabs you as a viewer that this is a major league production. More than anything, when you're watching these tent poll events, and I go back to the one in November as the best comparison point, you're watching these shows. And I don't think that the average viewer is instantly thinking of UFC. It's got its own identity that Bellator has now established for itself with the elaborate entrances. I love just having even the arch above to tie it in for the local flavor. I thought that was a nice little touch.

And just presenting your fighters as these larger-than-life figures, which I think the stage really brings out, which the videos accentuate. and it was a show that was building and building towards this main event that for all the criticism at God and praise at God, conversely, people wanted to see this. For whatever reasons, positive or negative, they did want to see that main event, and that's what everything was building towards. So I think the production has been a home run from the organization.

It sets itself apart, and it's a distinct feel that for a lot of hardcore fans that are watching UFC every single weekend, different is very good. I'm a big fan of Bel-Tor matchmaker Rich Chow as a person. I like him very much. I called this card a Rich Chow special, a Strike Force special. Known commodity, known fighter against unknown commodity, unknown fighter, a chance to, I mean, I'm not going to go as far as to say it was Maple Leaf Wrestling back in the day if you catch my drift. But, I mean, this was very much, you know, even like if you look at the last time Strike Force was in St. Louis,

all great fit. Oh, what happened to John Pollock? Did he disagree with my, uh, my, my, uh, my. Rich Chow assessment. Anyway, I'll continue with that as we get John back on the phone. You know, you had these fights where it was Daniel Strauss against to the Bellator audience, and I'd imagine to most MMA fans against unknown fighter. You have Michael Chandler, who, of course, we all know that.

You know, we all know that he's, you know, former champion, all that stuff, great fight, against unknown fighter. Bobby Lashley while James Thompson was injured, and we have to note that against unknown fighter. I mean, these were all, and even to a degree pit bull who was supposed to fight Georgie Carcannion against a relatively unknown fighter. All resulted in finishes, all resulted in great fights,

all resulted in, you know, entertainment, if you will. But it was very reminiscent of early days, you know, strike force on showtime when they were trying to, you know, pit these matchups. There's a big difference, though, which we'll get to in a second, but I just want to ask John, who is back, I believe. John, are you there? Yes, yeah, sorry about that.

Did you feel like this was, as I said, this was a Rich Chow, a strike force special? You know, pit your known commodity against an unknown, prop them up, get everyone excited. Oh, this was great, this is great. But really, when you strip it down, these were fights designed to make your, quote, unquote, known commodity, known fighter win. Did you feel like it was that? It wasn't a very competitive card. No, I think most people going into this card, I mean, There were heavy favorites going into this, and it was a great showcase for a lot of these fighters,

such as your Daniel Strauss's Michael Chandler. I mean, this guy came off. If you have never watched Michael Chandler before this night, he came off like a superstar in front of that crowd. It was a fantastic reaction, and by the end of it, you wanted to see this guy go after that lightweight championship again. And that's kind of the problem I think they're having at 155 and 145 is that you're looking at, you know, the third go-around for some of these fights, but it was a great showcase. I think even Bobby Lashley, for what that was,

it was, you know, he came in, and thus far every pet that's been put in front of him, he's passed thus far in Bellator. So I thought a really great showcase of fighters that you want to now create new fights for and that the audience wants to take that next step, and that was throughout the card. Last thing before we get to the big one, Kimbo v. Shamrock,

You mentioned last year. I wasn't going to bring him up. You know, I got to say, he's not doing it for me. I don't know where it is. Like, he is the nicest guy. I mean, you talk to him, he is such a nice, humble, soft-spoken guy. But his fights to me just don't, I see no, I see no real breakout talent there. I don't see him becoming the face of this organization.

I don't see him becoming that, obviously, he's not going to be Brock Lesnar, but I don't, when I see him, I don't get excited for his fights. There's something about his fights that just don't do it for me. What about you? Well, I thought on Friday, I mean, just his ability to just throw Dan Charles around throughout the duration of their fight. I mean, I thought it kept people's interest. I mean, I've seen some god-awful Bobby Lashley fights. If you want to go look up the John Ott performance, I mean, one of the worst fights you're going to see.

I think that his conditioning has come quite a long way since that stage where he's not tiring himself out and was essentially losing fights that he should have won at the time. I don't see this guy in terms of the automatic comparison. that so many make is, of course, Brock Lesnar. I mean, that's just an unfair comparison of what to expect from a Bobby Lashley. He doesn't have that same charisma.

He doesn't have that same style. But in that Bellator heavyweight division, I mean, it's a pretty dormant division at this point. I mean, zero questions about Battali Minnikov and when this guy's going to... It's been over a year since we've seen this guy fight. So I think that heavyweight division is looking for a spark, and it's a division that, you know,

there isn't a giant depth to that heavyweight division. And Bobby Lash is at least someone that has come along that against the right opponent you can showcase him against and taking that next step forward is kind of what they're facing at this point where he's going to be against the likes of your Alexander Volkovs, your Czech congos, and taking that next step, which that's going to be a question mark if he can take that next step. Are you as bothered as I am by all this Kimbo- Shamrock fight-fixing,

work, fight, all that stuff. I mean, I think this is a pretty ludicrous talking point. What do you make of it? I mean, yeah, I see all the discussion about it. I didn't think twice about it watching on Friday. I mean, I think that I know it's a really fun conspiracy to jump on board and kind of just, well, if that happened, then this must have happened. And I think if you just connect the dots, I mean, we're used to watching elite level mixed martial arts. and that fight was anything but it was bad mixed martial arts, which is going to look as it did on Friday night. And, I mean, to just, you know, entertain the notion that this would have been a worked fight, to add up the risk and what they would be putting at stake for a worked fight to get the desired outcome,

I mean, what does a win or a loss for either of those individuals mean in 2015? nothing at all versus the risk of what you would be doing in terms of creating fraud essentially on your broadcast partner's outlet on Spike TV I mean it's just I don't know it just kind of ends there I mean I can't really

dive too deep into the conspiracy theory because it's just it makes no sense it's a felony it's crazy and and look they bring it upon themselves to a degree when you know they have the entrance and road warrior animals out there and it does look very pro wrestling. And you know, when they tie up, you know, if you want to look for things, you can look for things. But when you see Kimbo Slice nail Kent Shamrock with those punches and cutting them open, there's nothing worked involved there. I mean, it's a very ridiculous thing. You nailed it.

It was bad MMA. And, you know, I saw a lot of media members kind of cheerleading for it. And to me, I hate this term. I hate this term. But it's really the term that comes to mind when I think of this fight. It is what it is. It was what it was. reminds me of Dennis Green back in the day. Kimbo's Sliced Kent Shamrock at this stage of their careers, their respective careers, they are who we thought they were. I mean, it was nothing more. What did you expect from it? And then look at what happened. I mean, what did we, do we think it was going to be like some epic three-round war? No, it was going to be slow, sloppy MMA, and that's what it turned out to be. Now, I was surprised Kimbo got out of that submission hold, I mean, especially when

when Shamrock, you know, flattened him out and had him belly down, I was shocked that he got out of it. In fact, I started to tweet, you know, started to type up my tweet that Shamrock had submitted him. And I thought for a second that Kimbo Slice actually tapped, and I'll get to that in a second. I think what it was, really, and this might sound crazy. I think this was the really bad MMA version of Frank Trigg, Matt Hughes, too.

Remember that? He had him in a rear naked choke. His arms got tired. He got up, and then he got his ass whoop in the fight ended. It was a crazy turn of events, but it was not fixed. And I think anyone who says that is, I mean, I guess as the kids say, you're just being a hater. It wasn't fixed. It was bad.

It was sloppy. It was all of stuff, but it wasn't fixed. Please, let's stop this. Well, I think that, you know, the ultimate lesson of Kimbo's slice in my, you know, in my history book, the mixed martial arts was not everybody, but a lot. The narrative right after the Seth Petravelli loss was, well, Kimbo's done. He's finally lost in the genies out of the bottle. and that was anything but the accurate assessment of that because he came back on Ultimate Fighter

and was as big as star as ever, drew as big as ever, and did monstrous numbers on that season of the Ultimate Fighter. And here we are, some eight years later, and still promoters feel that there is still water in the well of the Kimball's Slice vehicle that they decided to get upon this past Friday night.

Yeah, I mean, I'm really curious to see what the ratings do. I've had a lot of people, as I said at the top of the show, come up to me and say, hey, watch that fight. And the first question, without a doubt, the first question that they asked me is, was that rigged, was that fixed, which is kind of funny. I think people who get all hoity-toity about was this good for MMA, bad for MMA, I really think that ship has sailed. I think we've kind of reached a point where, you know, a fight like that is not going to kill

MMA. It's not going to hurt. If they fixed it, it might really hurt the sport. But just like bad MMA involving two old guys is not going to hurt the UFC. It's not going to hurt the growth of the sport outside. I think people need to relax about all that. is not 2007. But I did ask Big John McCarthy, your old pal, about the tap.

Because I thought, did you think that at one point Kimbo tap? Because I definitely thought when he had him belly down, there was a quick tap. What do you think? You know, I saw the file going around everywhere, people zeroing in on that. But, I mean, to me, a tap has always, it's got to be more than one. Yeah. Because, you know, there could be always the guy is just trying to simply base on the hand. So I never looked at it as he was trying to get out of the fight at that particular time.

But I saw certainly a lot of focus on that. And even at one point it seemed like his body went limp for a second. Hey, you know, give a lot of credit. And I've heard this from a few people afterwards. Kimbo was so adamant. Kimbo really hates this guy from what I'm told, and it's 100% true. And he was not going to tap him. I mean, he despises Ken Chammrock, I think to a degree because Ken is responsible for his big loss.

I mean, if he didn't pull out of that fight, maybe none of this happens to him. in Elite X-C. So I think he really hates the idea of Kent Chamrock. So this is what Big John told me just earlier today. I asked him about that, you know, single tap, and he said, we talked about it in the back before the fight. Kimbo said he was not going to tap. So I went over what would make me stop the fight. His hands came out during the choke, but he would have had to have made a more continuous motion for me to say he was actually tapping. In my opinion, that was a fighter contemplating tapping and then working through it. So very interesting stuff there for from Big John, and obviously he made the right call.

Kimbo wins. He fights through it. A lot of heart shown, in my opinion. Say what you want about the guy. He was close to being done and was able to figure things out and knock out Ken Chamrock. I think they do Kimbo versus Herschel Walker next. That's the obvious fight that gets them all the attention they want. That's what they need. What do you think? What do you do with Kimbo Slice?

Well, it's a very, very small pool of which to draw from of what you are going to do with Kimbo Slice at this point and how much you can utilize this particular fighter. He has to be booked in a very unique set of circumstances because I think we'd be naive to think that this fight is not going to do appreciably higher numbers than Bellator has posted this entire year. And Herschel Walker is kind of in that very limited pool of fighters that you can put together with Kimbo that are, A, going to have that ability to garner interest

and also a fight that Kimbo Slice is going to have a hope against. So, I mean, it's almost a separate division that Bellator has now created. Yes, exactly. So that's what we're talking about now, where Ken Shamrock and Hoyce Gracie is all of a sudden a discussion point rather than something that's just the punchline to a joke in 2015. These are fights that Belator believes that they can promote in such a way that there's not going to be that backlash.

But also, I believe Stockoker also with the knowledge that there's all, There's always the limit that the certain attraction that these fighters present, there is a limit to go and time them out in such a way that you're not overwhelming people with these fights to where they do lose their luster. But Kimball-Fleiss and Herschel Walker is kind of the fight that you look at at this point. And, I mean, he's younger than Ken Shamrock. And I would actually, I would favor Herschel Walker in that fight. Here's the biggest difference between Bellator in 2015, led by Scott Coker and Strike Force in 2010. led by Scott Coker. There are a lot of similarities. But if you look back at Strikeforce, they never went this route. And when Scott Coker, he just celebrated his one-year anniversary with Belator, you know, I said last year, I said, I think we need to give him two years to kind of figure this out and give it his own identity, the identity that he wants. But if you look back at Strike Force, they never went this route. They never went old man route. They never went like, you know, crazy freak show route. You know, they had Frank Shamrock versus Nick Diaz. They had fun fights. You know, they went after Fador and all that stuff.

Alster Overeign, they brought him back. But all the fights kind of were, you know, they were fun, they were passable, they were entertaining, they made sense to a degree. If we're going to go down this, you know, one or two, oh, we lost them again, if we're going to go down this route of, you know, Shamrock versus Gracie 3 and Kimbo versus Herschel and, you know, who else can they bring out? I mean, there's a whole bunch of old guys that they could bring out, I'm sure of it. now you start to hurt yourself as a promotion. Now you're just, I mean, look, to a degree, I know you want to get ratings, I know, but how many of those people who came up to me, you know, in the last two days, asked me about Mike Chandler? How many of them asked me about Patricia Pitbull? How many of them asked me about Daniel Strauss? You know what the answer is? None of them. So the ratings are great, and people talking about you is great, good or bad, I guess. But what's the trickle-down effect there? John, you back?

I am here, I'm really sorry. No problem, no problem. Every time you disagree with me, you just leave. It's fine. I was saying, I don't know. I put this Belator, PR guy right next to you. Yeah, that's right. So what I was saying was, this isn't Strike Force 2010

because they never went the cheap route. You know, they never went like Kimbo versus, you know, even when Herschel fought for them, they didn't put him in the main event, but I can guarantee you Herschel would be in the main event if he fought Kimbo. So my point is they could only do this so much, because after a while, you really start to hurt the brand, in my opinion.

Yeah, well, I mean, the object of any promotion is to give the fights the public wants. And it was a real referendum last November when the amount of people tuned in for Tito Ortiz and Stefan Bonner, as they did. That fight received way more criticism than this particular go-around. And the public voted. We like these kinds of fights. And I think that that vote is going to come down in the same favor when that number comes. out later today for this fight. So it's always going to be a balancing act of responding to the public and being able to

give them something they want with the audience accepting these novelty fights on a consistent basis. And that's ultimately what they're going to have to ride. Delo Tor doesn't have a whole lot of options in 2015 because go back to the landscape of 2011. Strike Force was drawing from a vastly different array of fighters. They were able to promote a lot of different fighters. you were able to create a lot of arguments about strike force fighters and how they would fare in the UFC. There's a lot less depth now in 2015 where you do have to go this route to differentiate yourself from the UFC,

and this is one way to reach that mass audience. Yeah, I just don't know if they can sustain it. I think that this bubble will burst sooner rather than later. Now, let's transition before I let you go to Saturday. In my opinion, Yohanna Yon Jacek is the breakout star. of the year, even if, you know, she doesn't fight again this year, I have a hard time seeing anyone surpassing her. Such an entertaining fighter, so great on the mic. I mean, everything about her, she is perfect as champion of the strawweight division. And, you know, you add to the fact that

she's European, so it's great for that market as well. I mean, everything about her is just a home run. What did you make of her performance on Saturday? And, you know, is it time to, you know, give her a bit more of a push? I mean, honestly, they push her pretty well, but look, she's an incredibly talented and charismatic fight. She oozes confidence, and that's really fun. She reminds me of Connor in that sense where she calls her shot, and she backs it up, of course, she is a champion. I can't be higher on her.

What do you think? Well, I mean, you talk about the push, and I know you are very much a transplanted Canadian in the U.S. This was the first title fight we ever aired on the Fight Network this past Saturday, clearly giving her that big promotional push with the Fight Network muscle behind it. I thought that Yana Young J. Chek's performance

was tremendous. on Saturday, and to that point, you know, Fight Network in Canada, fight pass for everybody else, I was all on board with her being placed on this platform because what was the one theme that was never brought up this past week? It was, can Yohanna Young Jacek draw in a main event? I mean, throwing her on the paper review would have been throwing this fight to the wolves for everybody to go after. I mean, that's become now consistent narrative with Demetrius Johnson,

and I think it's somewhat tainted this extremely talented performer. They didn't put that pressure on the strawates in this instance with fight pass. So I think that's allowed everyone to kind of just focus on this rising star in a new division. And she looked outstanding on Saturday and has come into our own as this unique personality. You have a great contenders fight coming up in August for her next challenger. And it seems that the pieces are coming into place for this division. So do you agree that Claudia Gedelia versus Jessica Aguilar should be the number one contender fight? 100%. I can't think of any other fight that could possibly produce your next challenger other than that one. That is the obvious fight to create your next challenger at 115 pounds.

I do wonder when we will see her again. I spoke to her co-manager Shuharata today. He told me that she fractured her thumb, and it's a pretty bad fracture. She might need surgery, so that might delay her return. She mentioned that she's going to be in New York next week for the big Reebok announcement. going to have all the UFC champions here. But that was a really fun card. That was a really fun card, I thought, and it was one that kind of flew under the radar. I love the fight pass cards because they fly by. There's no filler. I think John Gooden and Dan Hardy do a really nice job of representing that part of the world, and they give those broadcasts a unique voice. There were some breakout performances, I thought. Arnold Allen comes to mine. Of course, our guy, Makwan Amir Kani comes to any other performance that we should mention before we close the book on

UFC Berlin as far as our discussion is concerned. I think the fight that most kind of just got overshadowed this weekend was Nicholas Baxter and Noah Dlahat. I thought that was a great fight on the undercard portion. Just a dominant opening round from Baxter and then LaHott comes back with what I felt

was it was a 10-8 round in the second and then kind of both a little bit more tired in the third, but that was an excellent fight. I would argue that was fight of the night where Yana Yom Jacek, it was a great performance from her. But I look at a fight of the night as both fighters have those peeps within those 15 minutes. And in the case of Noad Lahat, I mean, I scored the fight a draw, but I mean, not a huge disagreement with how it turned out.

I just thought that was a fantastic fight. And kind of on these weekends where there's so many different talking points, that one I thought kind of fell under the radar. Couldn't agree more. I love fights where every round is its own story, and I thought watching the first round, oh, man, he's in trouble. comes back with that dominant second. I do agree it was either a draw. I mean, I know some people were very upset about it. Whatever. It was a great fight, and it should have won, fight of the night,

in my opinion. And it wasn't touched on all that much on the broadcast, but we discussed it last week, much of the chagrin of some. Noad Lahat coming back to Berlin as a proud Israeli was a very emotional moment for me. And I know my family loved it as well. A pretty cool story. If you are a Jewish MMA fan. I'll put it that way. John, great stuff, as always. Thank you very much for the time. You can catch them on the Fight Network. Also, live audio wrestling, a slew of podcasts.

Get the feed. The Twitter feed is I am John Pollock, at the Fight Network, is the other feed. How many podcasts do you host at this point? 48. 50. 50. Okay, perfect. I found that.

Thank you very much for the time, John. They about equal in the cumulative amount. Stop it. Stop it. It comes close to your show each month. Stop it. Stop it. Thank you, John.

All right. We'll talk you for you in Ariel. There is. John Pollack of the Fight Network, joining us from Toronto, Ontario, Canada. Okay, let's move along. You know, I was talking about year-end awards and saying how Ioanna Young-Jech is the breakout star of the year.

She might get more than that when it's all said and done in 2015. In my opinion, it's going to be very hard for anyone to win the Coach of the Year award at this point. If your name is not Master Hafeel Cordero, I mean, it's going to be virtually impossible. What this man has done in the last six months, let alone what he's done in the last couple years with his fighters over at King's MMA.

Nothing short of remarkable. Hafele Dosangos is UFC lightweight champion. He won that belt in March. Fabrice O'Roodoom is the undisputed UFC heavyweight champion. He won that belt last week in Mexico City. It's amazing stuff, and we are honored that he is joining us on the phone. For the first time here on the MMA hour, we're talking to Master Hafeel Cordero, the head coach over at King's MMA right here on the MAA hour.

Master, how are you? Good, man. I'm so excited. Talk with you. It's a pleasure to talk with you. Thank you for all kind of words, man. Appreciate. The pleasure is ours.

So have you come down from that big win in Mexico? Because I know it was very emotional. I know it was very exciting for all of you. Have you come back down to Earth? Yeah, I try. I try. I try. So it was a great week.

You know, we know how hard we work for this moment. And now, I've got an opportunity to show for everybody how hard you work here. in the Kingdom and me. It's a well-deserved, man. For everything he's done, it's like to sport. When you found out that Kane was only coming two weeks before the fight, and you guys had been there for so long, you know,

dating back to UFC 180 and now 188, did you think, okay, we got this guy? Yeah, for one side, yeah, because it's really hard to train down. I hold meat for Fabriz. I spy with him, maybe two or two times, and I almost die. But at the same time, the people have to know. know what to do inside the camps and all. And then we moved the first fight when Fabrizio fought against Mark Hunt.

We went there for two months. At this time, we went there for 35 days. And I can't tell. It's really, like, Christians just got in shape two weeks before the fight. Two weeks just to, you know, to adapt. The doubt should. And then after then, it's just about the technique. And it was hard.

So I believe for sure, Kane felt there'll be the altitude, but at the same time, Fabrice was prepared for everything, and he proved inside how hard he worked inside. How hard did he stand up? And I believe he'd stand up, make a difference more than altitude. So do you get bothered when you hear people say, oh, Kane wasn't himself because of the altitude, because of the layoff? He didn't come there early enough.

Does that make you feel like people are not giving Fabricio his credit? Credit. Yeah, you feel. you think about Fabrice beat Treves, people say oh, Treve is no good at all. Fabio beat Marcant, oh, Marcant so-so.

And we meet Minotel. Ah, Minotel is old now. You know, people try and find skills all the time. I think, you know, when we lost here, we work hard to change the results for the next fight. I think everybody has to do this.

It's not just about, you know. You have your head coach, you know what to do. I think they don't plan well what to do because a lot of people felt the altitude but there's no excuse you know, altitude is for both

not just for one guy it's for both you know so that's it when did you first start working with Verdu I started with him eight years ago and I was in shoot box in 2007

2007 and as soon he showed up I moved to the United States and I work with him just for three months and then I moved to the United States and soon as I move here and here, follow me and then we keep to today so he's going to be 80 years together

almost married Yeah So you started working with him When he was 29 years old then And now here he is 37 And he finally becomes a UFC champion Honestly Did you think that he would be able to turn into the fighter

That he is today And become UFC champion Because no one predicted this back then Yeah, he is 37 years old And I believe he is the best moment His career is now And he has become professional No, before he was good

But now he worked more and more Become more professional He works to stand up Everything, every day, every day He put his jiu-sitsu to the side To learn about a stand-up fight And he, you know, he You know

I'm so proud of him For everything He does, so he's work to the United States he just lost his contract with the UFC the FC release his contract and then here he's just training, train, train, train and then he signed with strike force

as soon as he starts he's signing with strike force and money was little, little, little low, low, low. But he said, it's my opportunity to show for all how hard I work I'm going to sign this contract. Does it matter what happens in the future,

I'm going to do that. What I have to do in today is the award champ. So he improved a lot, not just about money, but how hard he can work to improve his game and all. So he told me after the fight that he would like to fight

Kane next to give him a rematch in Las Vegas. What do you want for him next? It's hard to say, now it's really hard to say names, because I believe Kane deserves rematch because his history as a champion, you know, was great. He did the things inside the Heavyweight Division.

Nobody did yet. But if Abnish, now he's going to start building his history inside the Heavyweight Division. But if somebody has to fight, I believe he's a game, you know, he deserves. I'm okay with rematch, no problem. So everything that he does inside Heavad Division, I believe he deserves rematch. But I don't fight nothing. you know yeah

I put in UFC hands but you know whatever I see the size a bit too you'll be ready for that when do you want to go ahead

remember one time I think we one time I think once with you I say for me Fed was the man

inside have British Vision Fed was the man to Fabricio be in and now I can say

King was the man before Until Fabioio beat him, Ken was the man inside the UFC. And Fabio beat both. So I believe Fabrice now, he's step on the future,

he's step on the top now. So I think it's the future amount. Do you think he's the greatest heavyweight of all time already? It's really hard to say that. It looks like arrogant to say that, but I believe he is almost there. When do you want him to return? When do you want him to return to action?

To fight again. Fabricius? Yeah. He have a couple of injuries now. He got a six-month, substantial, six months. I believe he has to wait since he's in Kankoum, with his wife and his daughters, and I believe next week he's back. He's on his back, we want to know how long do you want to stay out.

He has a couple of injuries. He's knee, hurt, he'll be his three. So we have to know now So you've worked with some of the greatest of all time Anderson Silva Vandrelei Silva Shogun Huah Now Hafao dosangos Fabrice Radoum is there one

fighter and the work you did with that fighter That you are most proud of A lot of names I started working with those guys Since the beginning Valet since the beginning his career Shogun is one of my favorites I can tell

But Shrgun started to train with me with 16 years old and then Bright champion UFC champion you know I'm not with him when he

he was UFC champion but the feeling is the same so I believe all those guys but when the Laysho went from this show

three guys is really special for me will you work with Shogun before his fight in Rio in August he's here he and the king that I may now

I want to start his train coming up and he live here now he moved with his family as Fabrice did in the past so he did now he moved here with all family and we work hard every day work hard, work hard

he know he he has to be Moghera he has to do what he has to do and if you went back to the top I think it's going to be his first step now and he trained a lot for them

what about how things have ended for Vandrele Silva Does that make you sad that his career has ended this way, at least for now? What I wish in the future, they can, you know, sit with DFC and talk and try, make everything, you know, work together and fix everything. This is what I'm looking for in the future. They can sit and talk. But they have his own side. Yes, he has on side.

So I think they have to sit and, you know, fix everything. I think it's a best for both, you know. Do you think he'll fight again? I don't know, man. Now he just He traveled all over the world to do seminars And he wants to spend his brain Fight team

And I believe that his focus Now it's just about seminars And it's about his own brain So maybe in the future Nobody knows But for now I think his focus It's just a seminar And now that you have these two champions

And like I said You're doing so well as a coach Are you getting a lot of fighters saying they want to come to Kings? Are you having to turn down fighters? Because the team seems relatively small. You know, what kind of attention are you getting from people within MMA? Yeah, there's a lot of people now. I want to come to Kings.

I want to train with you guys. It's really good. I'm happy for them. But at some time, I have my team here. The guys work together for a long long long time. And we have a good energy here. You know, more than the Zeus, we have. have a bandage around here with the atmosphere.

They train hard every day. They spark hard. People come in a way to have spying and sparring at the gym. They sparring hard, man. As a fight, you know, people think it's fight. If I caught your dog right after, I can, you know, a couple more fights when the guy's sparring in the gym. This is our atmosphere.

It's really hard to be building an atmosphere like there. And I'm cool with that. I'm cool with my team. and cool, I think we did a great job until now. And if more people want to help, for sure it's more than welcome, but they have to

follow the system. You know, it's followed the system, everybody's more than welcome. But, you know, a shooter box legendary for their sparring, and now with people talking about injuries, brain injuries, head injuries, all kinds of injuries, have you changed

the way you get the fighters to prepare in particular with the sparring, or is it the same way as it was back in the Shooterbox days. When you back Shooterbox days was spying everything. So after practice, sparring, after practice, some days just kick, some days just boxing,

some days, some days, some days, some days, you know, but always spy off the class. I take a little bit. Day-to-day,

they sparring two times a week. And, but in another days, we work hard. there's a fight. So they almost spy every day, but nobody could see it back when we shot the box back on the day.

So they spy hard two times a week. I think it's enough, two times a week. And that's it. It's the way. By the way, you know what? Go ahead, sir. But you have to spar. You have to spa.

People all, I don't want to spy. I don't know. You have to spa. It's better you fix your fighters inside the gym, and fix the side of the octagon. Sometimes people I don't like spar, but if you want to train here, you have to know you want to spar hard,

and I want to feel how you react. In bad situations, in a good situation. Because in a good situation, everybody's a chap. I don't have to, you know, to back and throw the back, bad situation. This is going to show how,

how about, this is going to be about how hard. Let me see how hard. Right. You know, when Anderson's, Silva came out with his book a couple of years ago. He told a story about getting into an argument with you and then grabbing a shotgun and waiting for you and then a friend of his

convinced him to let it go. And you didn't know about this story, right? What was your reaction when you read about this? I say, man, so I don't know why he said that because I don't know if the history is true or not because if the guy said that in the book and keep coming in my gym. So, or he has... three or four, five personalities or it's crazy. Because if you say down the book and keep coming in my gym, something happened, you know, because I don't remember people come with a gun,

my gym, with fans, blah, blah, blah. I don't remember this history. So it's really good to sell books, but in the reality, the reality's different, you know. I don't remember this history. And a lot of history is put in the book, I could remember. And people around him back in the days don't remember true.

Uh-huh. What I can say about this, you know, when you have the light over you, you can say whatever. One, people, you believe. But when the people know the truth, the truth sometimes is really different when you put the paper. So what I can tell about that, if he say, what does he say, and keep coming to my gym, or it's really fake, or it's not true what he says. What's your relationship like with him now? Just for hello, I don't have a relationship with him.

I wish all the best for him, but we don't have a relationship. After the book, my relationship with him, that. Okay. Because, you know, how can I act? I'm not a fake guy. I can act like nothing to happen. So I wish all the best for him, but I don't have any relationship with him. Do you think he has ruined his legacy with what happened?

No, I understand what is he did inside the office? man, he's going to stay at that forever. You know, he's a legend. The best of all the time. I believe in the other stuff is a good, you know. And inside the octagon, the best of all the time. Outside the octagon is hard to judge

because nobody knows what has happened in the real life. I can't tell because they made my name. So I just, I just answered because he said my name. So he's saying my name. He says something. I say it's not true. What did he say inside the book. For sure, I slapped his face.

Why? Because he had no respect me. He came in a little arrogant. He said, he wants to fight against me, the way he talked with me. And I slapped his face. But, you know, it's something man against man. The way he came against me was man against me. It's not something, you know, guns and my friend holds me.

I would try to kill him. No, no. It's just Hollywood. It's Hollywood. Too much mood. Do you have to do that now? Like, when's the last time you had to slap a fighter because he was getting too arrogant?

No more. No more. No more. I was 20 years old in Brazil, you know. My generation was, you know, back in the days, was everybody like that, you know, people. Back in the days on the gym was everything to defend your gym, to defend your place.

Back in 20 years, 22 years ago, we killed or die for the gym. And today is different wars, Japan, we can say, oh, let's go, let's fight, let's do this now. And I don't allow my students to do it, and that's it. It's not fair. Okay, my last question for you, and this has been great. Thank you so much for the time.

It seems like Rafael Dosanjos is going to fight Soroni again, his first title defense. Do you like this matchup? I mean, it was a pretty one-sided fight when they fought in Indianapolis a couple of years ago. Do you like this matchup for him? and do you think that it will happen in December? Is it looking like December will be when he returns? I think it's good fight.

Siruan deserves. You know, we respect to kid a lot. Always respectful guy, you know. Never say nothing against Grafah, you know. With respect what I think he deserves. That's for sure. It's a good match, you know. I'll be prepared for the fight all more time.

And, you know, try to do everything to keep the belts. We respect to run a lot. You know how hard he works. he's a warrior. He's a real warrior. We look forward to this fight. It's going to be a great fight. And you think it'll be in December? We don't know yet. Because Haffa knows, start training yet. He talks with me a lot.

He has to talk with his doctor, Dr. Kipitin. And you have to see how long you have to take for this fight. Okay. Well, for now, Hafel, I thank you so much for the time. Parabenz. Congratulations on all your success. It's always such a pleasure to see your smiling face. You're always in such a great mood at the events. And I'm very happy for you and your team and the success that you've had. So again, congratulations.

And thank you very much for the time. It was great to have you on the show. Thank you again. Very great. I want to say, a pleasure to talk with you. And I always follow you. I know how hard you work.

You understand about martial arts. It's not just about fight. You understand about martial arts. You make everything. easy, Wendy West with opportunity. Thank you very much.

I appreciate it. Appreciate it. God bless you guys. All right, there he is. Master Hafeel Cordero. My choice on June 22nd for the 2015

coach of the year. What a year it has been for him. He has two UFC champions now. He's got some rising stars in the likes of Beniel Darius, Jake Allenberger, back on track now, working once again with Shogun Hua,

has worked with Liotr Machita who's fighting this weekend. It's an amazing run for him, and a great guy and representative of the sport. Okay, let's move along. Of course, at UFC 188, it was headlined by Fabrice Verduem versus Kane Velasquez. Verdum won the belt. The co-mate event was Gilbert Melendez versus Eddie Alvarez,

a very, very close fight, and interesting to note that a couple days after that fight happened, the UFC announced that Gilbert Melendez was getting right back in there. He was going to fight on one month's notice. He was going to be replacing Bobby Green against ally Quinta, July 15th in San Diego, California. Very interesting fight. Very interesting piece of news. So we wanted to have Gilbert on the show to talk about that.

Gilbert, how are you? Doing great. Are you doing there? I'm doing great. So are we over Mexico yet, or are you still harping on it a little bit? No, man, I slept well that night. You know, I feel pretty good about it all. You know, I feel like, you know, I wanted some good damage.

A little disappointed. I feel like Alpitude defeated me. I couldn't really let go a little. But, no, I slept good that night, and, you know, and yeah, I'm all right. I'm back on track. I was okay. You know, I've had other losses, you know, like, Pettus, you know, it kind of beat me legitimately. That was hard to deal with, you know what I mean?

And something like this is, you know, I still feel like I was a winner, so I slept good. How early did you get to Mexico, and in hindsight, do you wish you got there even earlier? You know, I wish I could have been there a month earlier. I wish I had a budget and pay that I can fly out of all my training partners. But, I mean, you know, realistically, you can't just get out there five or six weeks earlier. I mean, maybe Fabrizio did it. Yeah. But it would have to fly all my partners, my coaches, who actually had the business at the gym.

And it just didn't make sense. So I did go to Tahoe about, I think it was a total in altitude of 14 days. I was in Tahoe for about nine days before I went to Mexico City. And, you know, I was altitude total for about, you know, two weeks. Did I completely adjust? No, did I feel like it helped a little bit? It did. You know, but I'll fight at night, I definitely felt a difference that I've never felt before.

Have you watched the fight since it happened? You know, I think I saw like a cheap blue leg once, and I couldn't really get a clear shot. So, uh, no, I haven't really watched it, to be honest. They don't hook you guys up with like a link or something

to rewatch it? Maybe. I don't know. I just didn't ask for it or nothing like that. I haven't seen it yet. I'm wondering if you still believe, though, I mean, based on what you've seen, what you've heard, do you believe that you did enough to win the fight? You know, it's, it's, I could, I totally understand how I could have lost the fight.

I think I lost the third round. I thought I won the first round, you know, better than any other round. And, uh, and I did watch the bootleg, and I feel like I did watch, I did win the second round. I got taken down at the end, but I pretty much popped back up. do nothing with it. And I get sick of people telling me, well, the takedown, Gil. And I'm like, all right, well, what do you mean by that, you know?

And what is it take down and what did you do effectively with it? So, you know, at the end of the day, like, I understand how I lost the sport cards, all people watch it. But it's a lot more complex than the takedown, you know. It's a lot more than that in the sport. And it's the ultimate fighting championship, not the ultimate takedown championship, you know. and, you know, I thought like I controlled the center of the octagon and landed some jabs and, you know, was trying to control the center.

And but I do see, I feel like altitude got to me and Eddie push harder and that third and could have stilled the second with a takedown if it means that much. But, yeah, I could see how I lost that fight. But I feel like I definitely won the fight with just damage and being control. Whatever issue you may have had with Eddie, is it over or do you still feel some link angering animosity or whatever towards him. You know, I haven't, you know, afterwards, you know, he, you know, shook my hand. It was very respectful.

And, you know, no, I don't have no animosity. You know, I mean, you know, you've seen some stuff that bothered me, you know, but afterwards he was cool. He respected me and sent out a nice sweet and stuff. You know, I just, you know, I hope it's genuine. You know, I just, you know, maybe tomorrow he's seen something else again. But as for now, we're okay. You know, and I'm just, you know, it is what it is,

and maybe our paths across again. I hope you don't mind me sharing this story, but I did see you after the fight, and it really stuck with me because it was such a sincere, honest moment where you said that you were afraid that you wouldn't be ranked in the top five, maybe even the top 10, if my memory serves me correctly after the fight. And as you may recall, I assured you that anyone who doesn't put you in the top five or 10 is completely out of their mind,

and I kind of guess that you would remain in the fight. the top five or ten, and now here you are still in the top five. Were you sweating that? Were you really nervous about that? Because I thought, I was shocked, but it was nice to see a fighter actually acknowledge the rankings that it means something, especially considering the fact that you had been in the top five, top ten for so long. Yeah, you know, I've just been in the sport for years, you know, like 13 years I've been

fighting out, and I've been relevant and top for a long time, and you fight to be the best. You really do. You fight to be the best. At least that's been my goals and to compete with. with the best and to be recognized as one of the best. And, you know, I just don't, you know, it's just a thing you take pride in. And, you know, and you always want to, you want to be relevant. You know, you don't want to fight in the sport when you're not relevant and you're not

one of the best. You know, to me that's the time to step away or to reevaluate, you know. And, you know, I just, you know, I fight to be good. You know, I don't fight just to fight. You know, I fight to win. And I fight to represent my team, represent my family. And, you know, and yeah, it would be a bummer not to be, you know, one of the best in the world or just not fighting the best out there

and going that direction. Well, so you're still in the top five and you're getting right back in there. When were you called? When were you approached about stepping in on a month's notice to fight ally Quinta? You know, Redall hit me up, like on, I believe, on a Tuesday. And he kind of like, hey, you know, the answer is probably no, but Joe Silva bought this up and, you know, do you want to fight

Allied Tinket July 15th? You know, I said, hey, you know, I'm probably 80, 20, no, but let me think about it and talk about it my teammates, my family, and my friends and everything. So, so I thought about it and, you know, I feel like, you know,

I worked really hard to get in shape. I felt extremely healthy after my fight. It didn't really take much damage. It did get cut on my head. I'm not spinning elbow at the end, but, you know, it's the first time. a long time on a fight, you're just like, well, I feel perfectly fine. And it's such a hassle to get out of shape, get back in shape for a 10-week camp, and jump back in there.

So, you know, it's the chance for me to make the money, and I feel like I'm in great shape, and why not? You know, why not? This is a, I'm not getting any younger, and, you know, these are the things we all thought together as a team, you know, to talk to my wife and my teammates and everything, and, you know, it was the why not. I'm in shape. I'm good. Let's just keep the ball rolling. So Al is ranked 13th right now, and he's on a roll, but again, he's not in the top five or even top 10.

Had he been in the top five if he's one of those big names right now, would you have not taken this fight? In other words, did you take it because you felt, all right, you know, I'm on a different level than this guy, and this is a fight that I should win? No, I would have taken with anybody as long as it wasn't a five-rounder. Oh, wow. I was like, I'm in shape for 15 minutes, let's do it. You know, again, I'm in shape to fight. And I think Al's a tough guy. You know, he's a guy that I feel like, you know,

he's one of those guys I might as well get now before he gets even better. He's actually one of the up-and-comers I've been keeping an eye on. I think he's, you know, I really respect his style. I think he fights with a lot of heart. And, you know, he's similar to, not similar to Eddie, but, you know, he's a striker, shooter. Just kind of made sense. You know, I don't think he's a walk in the park, that's for sure.

I mean, no one is nowadays. I'm challenging everyone that wants to probably found a vision from, you know, from 1 to 20, you know, is a tough dude and can have a good night on any night, you know? So, no, I think it's definitely a challenge, you know, but again, I'm just not getting any younger. And, you know, I just kind of want to get out there and, you know, and get some fights. I feel like your other job as a TV analyst helps you make these decisions to a degree because, you know, I don't know if you've ever, you know, worked a I acquit a fight, but you have to be up to speed and do your homework on these guys,

in particular your own division, because a lot of people are asking you about that. Did that help? Like, did you know exactly who he was, what he's done, what he's done in his last few fights, how he looks, because you're a TV analyst as well? Oh, for sure. And, you know, even before I was an analyst, I just, that was just, you know, I'm always looking at my division in the up-and-comers, you know,

and you're like, oh, here comes another up-and-comer. You know, I saw him against Ross Pearson, I think against Mazadol. You know, those were good fights. I was pretty impressed. And, yeah, man, you know, I like his style, and I was able to, you know, catch the item. I see him against Lausanne. He messed up LaZan. That was his last fight, right, Joe LaVan?

No, he beat, he beat Mazvedal in April. I remember that he had the controversial fight. Okay, okay, okay. Yeah, no, I did see that one as well, and he barked at the crowd. I thought that was pretty hilarious. That was pretty hilarious as well. Yeah, I like his style, man. I really do.

I like the match up. I do respect the kid. And, you know, and I've seen him quite a bit, and I knew he was a tough up-and-comer. And, you know, and I think he's going to be around for a while, you know. And I think he's a guy who fights as well. You know, and I like guys who are going to try to fight, you know, and, you know, I hope he's in the center of the octagon and will make it a good one. Had you won that fight in Mexico, is it safe to say you wouldn't come back on such short notice?

No, no, actually, that was kind of my goal. Oh, my goal was to kind of, if I was healthy and I won't. I was going to try to turn it around quick. You know, I don't know about this quick, but I was going to try to turn it around quick, you know. I didn't win, but the healthy part was there, you know, the healthy part was there. And, you know, and, yeah, I would love, I want to keep it going right now. You know, to be honest, so like I said, I can imagine getting out of shape and doing it all over again and everything. It feels good to be healthy and to be able to, you know, to be able to jump right back in.

You know, a lot of times I think fighters really want to do that. Like, we want to do that. It's just like some of the wars we go through, our bodies don't allow us to, you know. And we would love to fight every month and collect paychecks. Except, you know, we take a lot of punishment. And it was just one of these times where I was like, all right, you know, I'm healthy. I'm going to bounce back in. And, you know, the fight gods were good to at least keep me healthy.

And I want to bounce back in and, you know, get paid. Do you take any kind of vacation or break from the gym, or do you go right back in there? You know, I watched the war. years win the championship. Yes. You know, that Tuesday night, you know, at a little local bar at my buddies, you know, had some beers and, you know, watched Jedi mind tricks that night, hung out, you know, spent the time with my wife and my daughter.

And, you know, I set to that fight on Wednesday. And I think, you know, I ran Wednesday night and was on the gym Thursday night, you know, twice a day and the gym Friday, Saturday and Sunday. And just right back at it, man, you know, just, you know, whatever, three weeks of our training, I could keep it going. It's no biggie. But, you know, I have a little downtime. I'll have a little downtime and relax, but no, I'm going to just stay in the gym.

And I was going to finish on this since you bring them up. I'm a huge basketball fan. I'm in awe of the Warriors. I love that series. You're in the Bay Area. You're in San Francisco. What's it like over there? How happy is everyone? Are they hysteric? What was the celebration like? I

believe I read there was no, you know, rioting. There were no crime. Nothing like that, which is a beautiful thing. You see that too often these days when a team wins, especially after such a long time. What was it like being in the Bay Area when they won the title? It was great, man. The Bay Area is on fire. It's such a progressive city.

I mean, it's just, you know, with all the tech stuff going on and, you know, the economy as well, they're building like ants out here and, you know, the Giants are winning, you know, and now the Warriors win. It was huge for everybody. You know, it's 40 years since they won. You know, I'm not a big poser, so I'm not the biggest,

you know, basketball base. I'm a specialist. train on fighting, but I love the morale here and the energy in the city. And yeah, man, it just adds to what's going on in this great city. So there's a lot going on out here. And it was fun. It was, it was pretty positive. A little bit of fireworks out there. I was in the pandewine area, so they're popping for fireworks and stuff. But everyone seemed to be good and enjoy themselves. And you have a gym in San Francisco. And sometimes I've heard from some people like they start the gym and then, man, it becomes this, it becomes a real financial burden. has it been good to you the gym?

Are you happy that you have a gym there? Yeah, no, it's been great. It's been very good. You know, I got about 350 members, you know, give or take, it comes and goes, you know, and a great part of San Francisco, 7,000 square facility, and, you know, for the most of the time,

it's jam-packed, you know, we're basically, you know, plateauing in a positive way. And, yeah, man, I enjoy it, you know. You know, my work helps me run it. You know, my dad helps out. It provides my, you know, my buddies with jobs to teach and they do private. And, you know, it's definitely a big community and we all contribute.

And it's awesome. You know, that's more than a gym. It's like a little club out there. So I think, yeah, it's been good for me. It's a good business. Okay, last question. And thank you very much for the time. We appreciate it.

I'm wondering, I know how much it meant to you to fight in Mexico. It didn't go your way. And one of the big talking points coming out of that event was, you know, the altitude and how it affected so many of the fighters, including, as you said, yourself and Kane Velasquez. Do you still want to go back there? Do you still have any aspirations to get a win in Mexico City, or now that you did it once,

are you done with that experience? You know, it would have to be different circumstances. You know, I'd have to find a serious sponsor who would want to really house me out there and to really make it happen, you know. And, you know, I did the research on it a little bit more, and, you know, I would definitely want to give another try. You know, I just would like to do it the right way out there.

And it's definitely tough. It's definitely tough. And I think, you know, it's something that, you know, I should have considered a little more and looked into a lot more and really thought about. But, yeah, it doesn't mean I'm scared to go back there. If the price is right and everything's right, as far as their line, I would definitely go back. All right. That is good to hear.

I love that card in San Diego, somewhat flying under the radar because it's right after UFC 189. but it's a very interesting loaded card, and I love the fact for the old-timers, Gilbert Melendez and Josh Thompson on the same card, but not fighting each other in California, I think, is a lot of fun as well. So kudos to you for taking the fight on short notice, Gil, and best of luck in training, of course, best of luck in the fight. All right, there he is.

Gilbert Melendez joining us from San Francisco, home of the 2015 NBA world champion Golden State Warriors. And as I said, kudos to him. Ally Quinta searching for an opponent. I think Gilbert Melendez was on his wish list, but I honestly don't believe that he thought that he was going to get Gilbert. That's the best case scenario by far. You go from fighting Bobby Green, you know, no knock on him,

just, you know, ranked 11th. And now you're fighting number five, who fought for the UFC belt, who's a former strike force champion, who's very well known. It's a huge opportunity for Ally Quinta, the biggest of his career, bigger than when he fought in the finals of Tough Live. And as I said, that card July 15th in San Diego is really a good one.

Frank Meir versus Todd Duffy is an interesting fight in the heavyweight division. I Quinta Melendez, Thompson Ferguson, Jorgensen, Mani Gamburion. How about Holly Home against Marion Renaud? There are a ton of great fights. I like that car. And that's a Wednesday night. A very busy stretch coming up for the UFC. All right.

Let's go back to the Bellator talk. as I mentioned on Friday, Beltor's back in St. Louis, Beltor 138. We were talking to John Pollock about this. Everyone, of course, talking about Kimbo and Shamrock and the spectacle that that was. But the man who really kicked things off,

the man who came across, in my opinion, as the biggest star of the entire night. It's our next guest. Right now we're talking to Michael Chandler via the Magic of Skype, who is still in Missouri. Look at him, living large over there. On the lake, where are we, Michael Chandler right now?

We are in beautiful Columbia, Missouri. I'm at my father-in-law's ranch here. He's got about 60 acres. Wow. Some horses, zebra, zebra, hanging out. You got zebra over there? One zebra. Yeah, one zebra.

His name is Zeb. Holy moly. That's amazing. I know. I actually wanted it. We were trying to figure out. I wanted to bring you over there and show you a real-life zebra here in Missouri, but he's roaming the fields.

Wait, so are zebra common over there? Is that something you buy and bring over? Has that happened? No, absolutely not. No, my father-in-law, they like exotic animals. They have a snow fox over there in the back. They got, of course, dogs and cats and stuff. Horses, a zebra.

They had a monkey at one time before my wife was born. So it's kind of a hobby of theirs, and they like animals. Wow, it looks like paradise. I'm sure you're enjoying it, especially after picking up your first win since July of 2013. I had to go back and look at your record. I couldn't believe it was that long. I mean, is that amazing to you? How much did you miss that feeling?

I missed it a lot, and I didn't really realize how much I missed it until the fight was over. I actually saw on Twitter, I don't know if it's accurate enough, but somebody counted it out, and it was 688 days that I went without a win. And, you know, I come from that wrestling background where I can lose three matches in a row, five matches in a row, but I get another opportunity one week from now to kind of get things back rolling again. But in the sport of MMA, obviously, you take damage, you need to do hard training camps, and you have to take two months, three months, five months off. And, you know, you get in a nice little stretch of losses there.

And before you know it, you're 688 days deep, but luckily, I still got a smile on my face. So what were you feeling going into that fight? Because I think on paper, everyone was confident you'd win, but there was some pressure on your shoulders. And this, you know, new Bellator, you had to get back on track. You're fighting in your home state. you're kicking off the show. I think there was some pressure on your shoulders, despite the fact that it was a somewhat favorable matchup

in your direction. Were you feeling that pressure going into the fight? I was, you know, and I think I felt more pressure in the past. And I think, you know, when you're fighting with that pressure, you're fighting, you know, not within your strengths or you're unconfident, you're not confident in certain aspects of your training or you're a game plan or this or you're that, you have a tendency to put that pressure put that pressure on yourself and you know people use that

word pressure in all my interviews they use the word pressure they use the phrase back up against the wall they use you know do or die those kinds of things and i tried not to think about that kind of stuff because at the end of the day it's just me and another man locked into a cage just like it's been since day one uh had a phenomenal training camp switching things up and i'm more confident than i've ever been i'm actually the best fighter that i've ever been so going into this fight i just tried to focus on that and, you know, not put too much pressure on the situation. And thank God it's over and I got the win. And then I got to enjoy the fact that it was in St. Louis.

And there was a ton of people that came out. I got to enjoy all that after the fact. But during it all, I tried to kind of compartmentalize it. I actually, like, held my ears during the whole walkout before I walked out because the song was emotional and the cheers were loud. And it was St. Louis where I was born and raised. So it was definitely an emotional situation. Before we get to that walkout, because it was pretty special, what did you switch up leading up to the fight?

You said you switched some things in training. I did. Neil Malanson is my grappling coach since day one, all the way since I was in Ed Extreme Gator. He's been at Alliance the last couple of years. He took over my training. He was my head coached, set up every single workout for me. We figured out how long and with who we were going to work out and all that kind of stuff. And took some days off and went some days extra hot.

hard and it was a perfect, perfect training camp. I didn't over train. I didn't under train. It was just right. I was ready to fight for 15 minutes with my foot on the gas pedal if I had to. So he did a great job kind of spearheading my training camp. And then I also got back with my old boxing coach Gil Martinez from the very beginning extreme couture days. And we're back and we picked up right where we left off. And I think the improvements you saw in my striking and the composure and just the crisp boxing, that's all Gilmar. Or Gilmartine's, Tina's boxing and I'm excited to get back to Vegas or have him out ASAP and keep working. So how did that work? So you were in Vegas for this camp?

No, I was in San Diego, 75% of it, 80% of it. I did spend, I think, two weeks in Vegas. And I also brought Gill out for about four or five days during training camp. And, you know, just kind of piecing it together and just, you know, doing the best with what I had. So I'm assuming you chose that entrance song, right? I did, yeah. So I love the soft woman voice, whatever it is. I'm coming home. And then meshed it with the 300 violin orchestra.

And this is a little known fact that not many people know. You know the sports sitter theme. Dun-na-da-da-da-da-da-na. Yeah. The guy who wrote that works for Bellator. Really? So I contacted him. His name is John Colby.

And we mesh that together. And it honestly exceeded my expectations tenfold. So it was awesome. Yeah, because I was going to ask, like, you said you were closing your ears, but as you were walking out, it didn't seem like you were closing your ears. What was your reaction when you saw the whole thing with the arch and the whole production? What are you thinking? Yeah, no, before I try not to get too emotional because, you know, you got me talking on the overhead things. They're doing like the buildup thing.

I was just kind of closing my ears, talking to myself for that. But then once I got out there, then it was like, okay, let's embrace this thing. You look to your left. People are going crazy. To your right, people are going crazy. The Scott Tray Center was passed. from the beginning of my fight, you know. So it was amazing.

And it was just awesome. I didn't really get to see the full production until I've gone back and watched it. Okay. With the St. Louis skyline and how the arch kind of went across and lined up with the actual physical arch that was there on the walk. And it was, I mean, I've heard some people say some negative things on Twitter and whatnot, but my gosh, how do you not enjoy that kind of cool entrance stuff? If you were there in the crowd, you loved it.

I mean, I've heard tears, I've heard goosebumps, I've heard chills, I've heard butterflies, all kind of mixing emotions from a bunch of different people because of that walkout. So when you look at that and then you compare that to, you know, you've been in Bellator for quite some time now, you look back at the old era. I mean, is it safe to say that you are a huge fan of the new era and everything that they're doing? I absolutely am. I mean, they're doing these big events. Obviously, you're not going to see it in every event, but these big tent pole events that they're doing.

and it's awesome. And these screens, I think, are like 20 foot by 13 foot. And the music, the sound, I mean, bigger venues means bigger sound systems, which just means more emotion. We're emotional creatures, you know. So if you can, the more emotion you can pack into that arena and into the stadiums or whatever they were using, the better the fights are going to be, the better the experience is going to be.

So hate on it all you want from the, you know, watching it on Spike TV kind of perception, but in the actual crowd, if you're actually in there in the arena, it's cool, really cool. And what about the matchup? I mean, was there anything that concerned you about the matchup, or did you feel like you had this in the back from the get-go? I mean, confidence is a huge thing for me. I mean, I always try to think that I have it in the bag from the get-go. Obviously, with every single fight that I've looked at,

I see holes in guys' games, and I saw holes in Derek Campos' game. But at the end of the day, he's had 19 fights before me. he's had a lot of a lot of wins fought some tough guys and he's a tough tough guy I knew I mean you saw I hit him with that right hand dropped him hit him with like 23 hammer fists and I only know this

because when went back and watched it my dad started count one two three four and he kind of like 23 hammer fist you know and then he still got up through a knee and he was right back in my face he's a tough tough guy he's very tough mentally and physically his cardio was was nonstop so I knew

I was going to have to put him in a situation where he had no choice but to tap or go to sleep. And luckily, you know, I was able to do that with a, you know, a Neil Malanson famous choke that I've used, you know, probably six times in my career already. So it's good. I was just talking about the night that, uh, you beat Eddie Alvarez, same night as Hendo Shogun, in my opinion, one of the greatest nights in MMA history. This wasn't for a belt. It wasn't the main event. But is it possible that considering the layoff, considering how long it's been since you won, considering the fact that you were in your home? state, is it possible that this was the greatest moment of your career, or is the title win

still the best? Man, I would have to say it actually is the greatest moment of my career, and not because of, it's not even because of it was in St. Louis, and the crowd was packed, and it was very emotional, or it wasn't the fact that I went out and I dominated, it was just the fact that I fought, I would be happy with my performance, you know, even when I beat Alvarez, I wasn't necessarily happy with my performance. Obviously, the last 68 days we just said that I've been training and fighting and I lost a couple of fights, I'm not happy with my performance. And the more and more I realize this sport is not about being perfect.

This sport is not about being flawless and not having any losses. And, you know, it's about digging deep. And it's about moving forward through adversity like I've had to do over these last three losses. And people love to see a comeback story. People love to see somebody who was in a bad. situation who was down and out down in the valley and came out and you know just persevered and kind of that's that was the culmination of what it was the other night of just kind of you know being down on myself sometimes wondering man how how how have I fallen from where I was to where I am now and

then now just being able to build back up it's it's definitely an emotional situation it's awesome and I feel I really do feel like I'm the best mixed martial artist I've ever been more skilled than I've ever been and now I'm more confident than I've ever been. So I'm excited to get back in there. I want to stay busy. I already told Scott Coker. I'm healthy and I'm ready to get back in there, ASAP, and continue this road.

And I will be the champion very soon. You nailed it because I think more so than in boxing, which is the closest sport to compare, I think MMA fans, and the media maybe in general as well, we're more forgiving when it comes to losses. Like, if you have a bad loss and come right back and do what you did on Friday, everyone forgets about those losses. In boxing, it feels like they harp on them longer.

It's hard to, you have to almost win four or five to get back to where you were. And I think in MMA, it's exactly how you described it. So, you know, you mentioned the ups and downs. Your last fight against Will Brooks, it was a bizarre ending. It was almost like it was like jarring to watch. How long did it take for you to actually get over that and start focusing on the future? A while, man. And I think just maturing as a person and as a person,

athlete, during your losses or during your bad performances, you've got to go back and you have to acknowledge them. You have to say, hey, I did X, Y, and Z wrong, but you acknowledge them and you don't harp on them. And you don't want to believe. I don't want to go out there and believe that I can, you know, get flash kind of T-KOed like that at any given time. I choose to forget about that. Obviously, it's fighting anything can happen. But you try to forget about those things or even forget that I had a bad performance because I did have a bad performance. My performance two nights ago, if I, if I would have fought Will Brooks two nights ago, I would have won hands down, no Fins or Buds, I'm 100% confident in that. But where I was at that point in time,

mentally and physically as far as game planning skills and just fighting a certain way, I wasn't where I needed to be. So, you know, I try not to harp on it too much. I try to acknowledge it and say, hey, I'm not perfect, but I'm excited to work hard and work my way back up and improve and I've improved so many in so many different ways and and I feel like I've improved tenfold as a fighter. So it's exciting to move forward and I got my mental highlight reel on my head of all the things that I have accomplished in the sport and why I got into the sport and and the people that reach out to me and say I'm an inspiration and I'm a motivation and I get them pumped up about fighting and I'm my favorite fighter. Those kinds of things where you don't let it

get to your head. You don't get a big ego about it. But it's okay to have a healthy amount of pride. It's okay to look at yourself as somebody who deserves greatness, as somebody who deserves great things. And that's really what I'm all about. And if I can go out and put smile on people's faces and give them goosebumps and entertain them for a night and hopefully for the next 10 years or however long to get the fight, you know, that's my calling on my life. And I'm just excited to continue this road. Did you work with a mental coach? You

mentioned that word a lot. Did you work with a psychologist or anything like that? I did a little bit in San Diego. Not a ton, though, I think more than anything, it was more self, it was just, it was, it was, it was more self-motivating. I read a lot of books, you know, hopping on YouTube and listening to motivational speakers and, and, and spending time and prayer and realizing why I got into the sport. I didn't just get into the sport because, like, oh, I like fighting and you can make money at it. You know, I felt like, I prayed about it a lot. I felt like there was a calling on my life to get into the sport. And somewhere along the way you can forget that

And you can forget that this sport isn't about me It's not about my wins and losses It's about the byproduct of the performances that I put on And how I can touch people and reach people Through what I'm doing So that's really kind of what I'm focusing on these days And you know, it showed the other night And I'm very blessed to be able to get all out there

And put on a good performance And I can't wait to do it again Do you have any sense as to how many fights it's going to take How many wins for you to get another shot at the title no i mean uh we'll see i mean obviously like we talked about earlier man the new the new spike with scott cocker and how well they work with spike um and how well they work with spike is is they know what they're doing and they're putting on big shows and they're uh they're getting big ratings and and they're putting together good fights so if it's one more fight and in the title i'm happy

with that if it's five more fights in the title you know i'm willing to work my way up i said it the other day in the interview, I don't necessarily deserve to be looked at like the best light weight in the world by guys like yourself or even the casual fan. I have some losses. I have some bad performances. But you're not going to stop me from knowing and thinking that I'm the best light weight in the world. And I know I'm going to get back to that. It's just going to take the right kind of trading, right kind of training, right kind of game plan, the right people in my life. Stay sharp mentally, stay sharp physically. And like I said, there's no doubt in my mind. I'm going to have that title around my waist in the future.

considering that you are one of the very best fighters in the world, I'm wondering what you thought of the main event. I mean, you know, you showed the very best that MMA has to offer, and whether or not you thought the main event was entertaining, I don't think that was the best MMA has to offer as far as skill. What did you make of that? That was the main event. That's what everyone's talking about.

What did you make of that? You hit the nail on the head, and at the end of the day, it is about athletic prowess, and it's a competition, but it's also the entertainment business, you know, so you look at it from both sides. And then,

no, from a skill standpoint, I watched it cage side, and I was like, yeah, you know, that's a little slow, that was a slow punch,

that was a slow takedown. How did you not finish that rear naked shows? Oh, wow, you just got knocked out, and you're going to feel that for the next six months, Ken,

you know, so it definitely wasn't the best skill that M&A had to offer, but their big names, it has the backstory, it had the buildup. I think they really do, hate each other. You got Kimbo,

who's kind of that rough, that rough kind of guy who fought on the streets, and you got Ken, who's a legendary sport and broken legs and stuff. So they could sell the fight, and it was interesting. But skill-wise, no, it definitely wasn't up there with what the best of the MMA has to offer. But, you know, we'll see what the ratings work.

And at the end of the day, I can, I'll be very happy if they come out and they had a great night of viewership, and, you know, Spike TV saw me go out and do it and have a great performance. And it just goes a show the faith that Bellator has in me and how much they care about me and my career to put me on that card and have it in St. It was my hometown and is great. Are you comfortable with them continuing to do this to build their brand and get as many viewers as possible, or do you think

they should only do it, you know, for the interim here to get off the ground? But at some point, that kind of stuff has to stop. Yeah, I mean, so if we sit here and say, hey, if Bellator needs to grow as a brand. Do they continue to do it? I think they continue to do it a little bit. But if you look at the other organizations, that maybe the ones that have been around for 20 years, they kind of have some similar situations,

like a Gabriel Gonzaga and a crow cop coming out of retirement. In my opinion, those guys are a lot more skilled than what we saw two nights ago, a lot more skilled. And they have a backstory. But it's still got that little bit of a spectacle over skill look to it. you know, but man, at the end of the day, I try to focus on just becoming the best fighter I can be and being that, being one of those guys

who's looked at like, okay, he's legit. He's not here for the talk. He's not here for the spectacles. He's not here for the show. He's here to come in, win competitions, and get out, you know. And then let the rest of the stuff kind of, you know, let me piggyback on the rest of that kind of stuff to build my brand, to build my name and keep working towards the title, you know.

Fair enough. Last thing, I saw an instant. Instagram post, courtesy of you about you and your dad. You were seeing next to your dad, obviously very timely with Father's Day being yesterday. Was he in your corner? And, you know, obviously, I mean, it's a silly question on its surface. Why does your father mean so much to you? But you wrote so beautifully about your father and what he means to you. Tell us about that connection. Yeah, I think my dad, to me, is a, he's just a symbol of hard work and dedication. I mean, if there was one thing, that describes my dad and sums him up, it's hard work.

I mean, the guy has woken up at 5 a.m. every single morning since I've been born, and he straps on his work boots, and he goes to work, and he goes out of town. If he has to, he stays in town if he has to. So for me, I feel like I'm carrying on the Chandler name by being the hardest guy in the sparring room, by being the hardest guy, hardest working guy in the gym, you know? So that's what he means to me, as well as he's the hardest working guy I know, but he's also the goofiest guy I know. So he keeps the mood light.

I try not to make this sport more stressful or more of a, you know, more of a pressure situation than it has to be. You know, he'll be back in the back with me and I'll be warming up and he'll crack a joke or I'll look over him and I'll see that big smile or, you know, he'll come up and we'll high five or we'll hang out or we'll just tell a joke. And it's, you know, sometimes you want to be a little bit more serious, but a lot of times you need that comic release. You need that, that just grassroots like, man,

that this guy is taking care of me since the beginning of my life, and I wouldn't be here without him and without his hard work and without him being a good role model. So that's what he's always meant to me, and that's why he's in my corner and he has been in my corner, and about 90% of my fight he's only not been in my corner a couple of them. So that's what he is to me, and he's got his suit coat, and he's got a blessed on his suit coat,

and he's got his monster sticker, and he just, he loves it, man. He's a man, and he's a man that I aspire to be like, and I just hope I can work as hard in this sport as he has worked in his entire life, and I'll be doing pretty darn good. Well, that is great, and it's great that you were able to do that on Father's Day weekend and get back on track. One of the very best people in M.MA, one of my favorites, Michael Chandler. It was such a nice moment to see you pick up that win in your home state.

Congratulations. Enjoy your time in Paradise over there, and we look forward to talking to you very soon. Good luck in your next fight. I'm sure we'll talk to you then. Yes, sir. Thanks for having me, I'll see you. All right, there he is. As I said, a true class act, one of the good guys in this sport, and you can't help but feel

happy for him getting back on track. The last time he won, as I mentioned, July 31st, 2013, picked up a win over David Rickles, and after that he lost to Eddie Alvarez and then Will Brooks twice. He defeated Derek Campos on Friday in The Lou. Bang. We'll stick with the Bellator theme here for a second, because our next... next guest is competing this weekend, Bell Tour 139. He was a man who was talked about on Friday before the event, because when Scott Coker and Company announced their hybrid show with Glory, they announced that Joe Schilling, even though he has a fight coming up on Friday,

is actually going to be competing on that card. The rare situation where your next fight is announced before your actual next fight. They didn't announce who he will be fighting on September 19th in a kickboxing match, but we do know that he will be competing this Friday at Bellator 139 against Hisaki Cato. That is taking place at the Kansas Star Arena in Kansas USA. And now he is joining us a lot to talk to Joe Schilling about. He is joining us via the magic of Skype. So let's go right back to it.

And he's in his car right now. Joe, how are you? I'm doing well. How are you doing? Are you in Florida? I'm still in Florida. Are you driving right now, or are you parked? No, I'm parked.

I'm parked. Okay, I appreciate it. Thank you for the time. So is this kind of, I mean, I don't know if this is common for you, but you're, like I said, your next fight is announced before your actual next fight. They announced you to be fighting on that September 19th card. Did you know that it was going to work out that way? Yeah, I had a pretty good idea that it was going to be, it was going to work out that way.

I've known about the dynamite show for a few months now, and I'm really excited. about it. It's actually my third or fourth fight in a row that they've announced my next fight before I got in the ring for this one. So it's kind of normal for me right now. It's been a really busy year and you know, I love it. So I was under the impression that you were going to give this MMA thing

a go, at least for now, but they announced that you'll be fighting in the kickboxing portion of the hybrid show September 19th. Why is that? You know, when they need a high-level kickboxer in this country, I'm the guy they call. I'm the man for the job, so to speak. Yeah, I'm definitely

I'm down here at American Top Team. I've been training really hard, trying to get as good as I can at MMA and learn all the things I need to learn. And I'm definitely 100% training, trying to get better at MMA, and that's my future. But, yeah, I love kickboxing. And what a great event to be on. So I'm excited about it. Of course, your base is California.

Why did you choose ATT in Florida? I was actually, well, King Moe is a good friend of mine. It's been trying to get me to come here for a long, long time. I mean, for wrestling and take down defense, who better training partner could you ask for, you know? And Tiago Alves brought me out for a few weeks for his, for sparring, for his fight with Carlos Condon. And it was just such high-level training and so many great training partners. I just stayed. And I brought my boxing coach out with me.

And, yeah, I've been going hard out here at ATT. And you're actually moving. You're leaving California. You're going to move to Florida full-time? Um, you know, I think that's something that'll happen in the future. I'm definitely not something I'm, uh, completely prepared for right away. But, uh, yeah, I think I will in the future be spending my, my MMA training camps here. And, you know, properties definitely a lot cheaper here, school systems. It's, uh, it's, uh, it's nice. I think, uh, you know, I'm always going to have life in California, but it just seems like at this point anyway, it's a lot cheaper and more affordable to live here and, and fly to California to, uh, you know, I still own my gym there. I still have some stuff going on over there. How difficult was it to be away from your family on Father's Day?

It was real tough, man. It was actually both of my sons were our May birthdays, and I missed both their birthdays, and then Father's Day. It was not awesome. Yeah. I saw you were writing about it on Instagram. So how did you put it in the back of your mind? How did you not harp on it?

Or did you? Me and I hurt on it a little bit. You know, I talked to him a lot on FaceTime, and, you know, it's been rough. But the back of my mind, it makes me feel like, you know, these are the things that the champion does to get better. You know, this is, you know, no one can say I'm not giving it 100% putting myself in an uncomfortable position, so to speak. And, you know, that makes me proud. And that, you know, you got to say yesterday, you know, I'm gone today to make it better tomorrow. That's really how I feel about it.

though, to miss the birthdays and the Father's Day? I mean, you want to be the best, but, you know, is it, is, you know, is it worth that price? I think at this point it is, you know, I missed a fifth birthday and ninth, you know, I'll be there for the rest of them. You know, I'm sure it's just one birthday. Father's Day is really my day anyway. You know, I'm the only one that really missed out on that. Yeah. They still got spoiled rotten for their birthdays, and, you know, we were FaceTiming while they were at.

Toys Rass picking out their presence. And, you know, they had a really good birthday. So I don't think, they didn't seem to mind at all. It's just me. Of course. And last question on this, just, you know, because as a father, I can relate. Do they understand where you are? Like, do they understand, like, where's dad?

Do they get why you have to be away from them right now to prepare for your job? Do they get that at this point? Yeah, I think they get it. And they've had to deal with it for a long time. You know, they understand it. And, you know, when I come home or after I fight, I always spoil them and take them shopping. And, you know, they're very spoiled kids. They understand this is what I do.

And they know I have fights coming up. My oldest is, he's nine and he's really not into the whole fighting thing. I don't know if it's just his personality. I know he was at one of my fights where I lost my knockout and I kind of got to him. He really just hates the fighting thing. He supports me in it. He knows that's what I do. but he's just not a big fan of it.

My youngest, Jackson's five, and he knows all my opponents. He's at the fight, standing on the chair, cheering, and he was really upset the last fight when he realized that I had lost. He was pretty upset about it. He still talks about how bad the judges were, which is kind of fun.

But, yeah, he's both real supportive, and she's very supportive as well, so I'm blessed to have a great family. Are they coming to this fight? No, not going to come to this one. You know, it's the fights in Kansas, and I'm sure you can rent late. You know, when you're buying one plane ticket, it's one thing, but when you start buying like three and four, you know,

we used to go home to Ohio to visit my family every Christmas. And I was like, you know what, you guys only have my mom and my stepdad. You guys come to us because it's too expensive for us to fly all the way back there. So they'll be at home watching it. Dave & Busters is a sponsor for Spike and for Bellator. So they always give them a bunch of free games. tickets and they watch the fight live at Dave & Buster, so he takes care of him.

So they're excited about that. So you mentioned your last fight, which was obviously a controversial decision. Did that make you at any point rethink this whole MMA thing? Like, gosh, you know, to lose a fight like that, it's very hard to do that in kickboxing. And I know it's so frustrating for you. Did you ever say that for a moment, like,

oh, to hell with this, I'm going to go back to the other stuff? I mean, probably for a brief moment, but it was really more just like this irritation factor. and it makes me want to get that much better. It made me take a step back and look at my training situation and the training partners I have in L.A. And, you know, my L.A. training camps is really kickboxing-based.

You know, I bounce around and I try to go to Jiu-Sattsu classes here and there, but it's a kickboxing-based camp that I have. And being an American top team, it was, you know, 40 top-level pros on the mat every single day. You know, I'm learning how to wrestle by Olympic wrestlers. I'm doing jiu-jitsu with black boats, and all of those guys have MMA, you know, serious MMA fights, and there's seven different coaches.

You know, it was just a lot of attention, and it was really, you know, I learned a lot more in a really short period of time, I think, in comparison to where it would have been. And I think that, you know, I hate losing. I hate losing it really, I take losing really bad. And, you know, it seems like every time I have a setback or something like that, I really make a dramatic change,

and that's what makes me better. And that's why I was here at America Top Team, and that's why I was missing my kids' birthdays. And that's why I'm going to do well this weekend. How long did it take for you to get over the loss? Still, I woke up this morning. It still bothered me, to be honest with you. I still don't believe that I lost the fight.

I think that if you win a fight by nullifying a fight from happening, like your whole objective was so that nobody fought that night, I think that's a crappy way to win a fight. I don't think that having three judges and all of them have different scorecards and the one deciding judge has all three rounds for the other guy after I dropped him and broke his jaw and was doing all the damage. I don't feel like that was a real loss in my mind. But I look at it as a kickboxer, not even a wrestler, a kickboxer was able to hold me down and stop the fight from happening. That's something that I need to work on. There's definitely things that I need to improve on, which is why I'm here and why I'm making those changes.

What was up with that whole thing between you and Phil Barone after the fight? What was that? I really don't know where it came from. I know where I came from. Phil Barone, no one was ever talking about Phil. He's kind of irrelevant at this point. And he saw an opportunity to try to get some hype and attention. And, you know, I was after the fight, it went out with my buddies.

And, you know, we're at the bar having a few drinks. My Twitter and my Instagram just explodes. and it's Phil Barone running his mouth and saying all the shit. At first it was like comical. And then he sent a message, a text message to a mutual friend of ours. And I mean, guy that I know and he knows. And he's like, show this to Joe. And it was like all of this like end bombs and like all of this like racial crap that he was writing.

It was like super negative. And I shared it on Twitter for a couple days. I just took it down because it was just so negative. But, you know, I really got under my skin. You know, my kids are half black. My fiance is half black. You know, I'm very not racist at all. And he was saying a lot of, like, ignorant, racial shit.

And, you know, he said he wanted to fight me. And Glory had a fight two, three weeks later from the day that he started doing that. So I said, okay, you want to fight me? Let's fight in glory in three weeks. He'll take an easy paycheck. And Glory offered him the fight. He turned down the fight. He said he would only fight me where there wasn't an athletic commission.

Really? You said that? Yeah. He's like, oh, I'm not going to fight you in California, Nevada. let's do it overseas or somewhere, you know, there's athletic commission because he knew he wasn't going to pass a drug test. It's like, really it's just a big joke. You know, he hasn't won a fight in like 10 years.

His record's like he's lost 10 out of his last 12 fights. And then he just keeps bringing it up, bringing it up trying to create more attention for himself. And now you're bringing it up. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Okay, okay, I'm sorry. By the way, do you have a Beltor and Glory contract at this point? I do.

Wow. You're one of the lucky ones. So how does it work? Does, like, for the hybrid show, does Bellator ask you, do you want to do Glory? Or did Glory ask you for it? Like, how did that work? Like, where you decided which one you were going to do? I've always understood this as being a Bellator promotion.

Okay. I didn't realize that Glory was a part of it until they announced it. Okay. I believe that it's still a Bellator promotion and that Glory is sponsoring the event or something like that. But as far as I know, it was a Bellator event that Bellator wanted to do. And Glory is involved with it as well. My personal opinion I told my manager today is if I'm under contract for both of them, shouldn't I get paid by both of them for, you know, it's a Bellator event and I'm representing Glory.

Yeah. What's up with that? Two-page X to be yet? I don't know. We're going to see what happens. He told me I was delusional. I believe the exact words he used. Yeah, I think it's going to be a great event.

You know, growing up, I was like a dream come true to me to fight for glory in like a World Grand Prix setting. That was what I grew up watching was the K-1 Grand Prix, you know. And, you know, I was fortunate enough to win and be the first American to ever win one, which was awesome. And then now they're doing a dynamite show, you know, I throw back to the K1 dynamite. So it's, you know, the Scott Coker era is really exciting. And, you know, I'm proud to be a part of it.

Do you know who you're fighting on September 19th? I don't know who I'm fighting yet. I don't think they have an opponent yet. I imagine it would be a really good kickboxer. You know, if Raphael Colvaro wants to do what he said he was going to do in the last fight and stand with me for over many rounds, that would be an interesting fight in my mind. But I don't care. And what about Friday, Cato?

What do you know about him and what do you expect from him? I really don't know a whole lot about him. He's got a, I know he's left-handed and he's 6'1. He's got three or four knockouts on his record. And he comes from like a really, an interesting style of karate I'd never seen before. You know, the amateur fights that I saw online were he was wearing a ghee and went MMA gloves

and they had like a helmet on. But it was karate, but they were fighting basically MMA. So I don't really know what to expect. You would think karate would be a stand-up guy, but especially after the last fight, I just think that anybody that says they're going to stand up with me is just blowing smoke. Eventually they're going to try to get me to the ground,

which, you know, is understandable. You know, if I could have taken Melvin to the ground, you know, I probably would have. If I thought I was confident enough that I could, you know, get them down there. But, you know, I expect him to be aggressive and I'd probably look to get the fight to the ground at some point. And, you know, I'm looking for a high-level MMA fight. So now that you're with ATT, how many times you're going to shoot on him on Friday? We'll see. Wow.

It might happen. Wow. That will be a shocker in its own right. Was it weird? But I promise you, I promise the world. If I ever shoot on anybody, I will not lay there and hold them down the whole round. If I take them down, I'm looking to finish the fight as a fight should be done. Fair enough.

Was it we're not training with your buddies, you know, the Diaz brothers, you know, all those guys you've been training with for so long? You were a big part of their camp. You helped Nick, of course, trained for his fight. Was it we're not being with them for this camp? Not really. I think, you know, it worked out, you know, the Nick's fight and my fight with Melvin was We were kind of around the same time period, but, you know, Nick's not really training that I'm aware of right now. He's hanging out. He's doing this thing.

I think I haven't spoke with Nate. I know Nate was helping out go a lot, which that was kind of weird. I wasn't there to help those guys. But, you know, it was a really good training camp for me out here. I've never had so many coaches and training partners, you know. You can have really good training partners, but I feel like you learn a lot more when someone's like telling you what to do. instead of you learning while you're getting your ass kicked. With Nick and Nate, you know, they tell me stuff,

but for the most part, it's hard sparring and, you know, you learn the hard way. So it was really nice having so many high-level coaches being like, Joe, that was stupid. You should have done this, this, and this, you know. So it's been really great. I'm really grateful and happy to be down there at ATT. They really helped me out a lot.

Final thing, who's going to be in your corner on Friday? My coach, Mark Camaro, and my other stand-up coach, Mani Martinez, and Mowlo Wal. Oh, wow, that's interesting. And for the glory fight, will you have, will you do the camp at ATT as well? We were just thinking about that. You know, I think I'll probably stay in L.A. for the kickboxing? For the dynamite.

Yeah, the kickboxing show. Just because my, you know, I have a lot of really good training partners. And when it comes to kickboxing, I think, you know, the Yard Muitai and Los Angeles is where I want to be for that. Pleasure to have you on the show. once again, Joe, I'm looking forward to the fight very much. It's always fun to watch your fight. Even the last one I know it was frustrating for you and a lot of your fans, but there's always this excitement and, you know, this anticipation involving your fights

because you think something can end and moments notice, you know, like the Melvin Manhoff fight. So I wish you the best. Good luck, and we'll talk to you very soon. Thanks, Earl. Thanks for having me out, man. Take care of you. All right, there he is. Joe Schilling, big fight for him on Friday.

Bellator 139. Appreciate him, by the way. I should have mentioned this, Tim, when he was on the phone. I appreciate him stopping the middle of the road to talk to us. Very nice of him. Always fun to watch Mr. Stitch him up, Joe Schilling. And let me just... So that's this Friday.

That's on Spike TV. One more guest to go on this particular show. And by the way, I remind you that this week we want to take some phone calls. We want to hear from you. It's been a while since we did that. So after our last guests, we're going to go inside the vault and then we'll hopefully, if there's anyone who really wants to bring it and say something half intelligent, we'll take some calls. 1-88-4-1-8-4-18-4074.

1-88-4-1-8-4074. The number is on the post if you are watching this live. But as I mentioned, we have one guest to go. His name is Makwan Amir Kani. He was on the show just a few weeks ago. You talk about one of the breakout stars of 2015. He is certainly in that discussion as well. He was on this show, as I said, a couple of weeks ago,

and he was very confident in what he was going to do to Massio Fullen at UFC Berlin. Remember, he said that if the fight went to the second round, he was going to bow down to Fullen. He said, bet the house on a first round finish. Remember all that? Incredibly confident. his UFC debut back in January in Stockholm, Sweden did not last very long. It was just eight seconds long.

He won via flying knee. He returned on Saturday in Berlin and looked just as impressive. On Saturday, he won via rear naked choke in a minute and 41 seconds. In fact, I saw my friend Mike Bond tweet today that he is the first featherweight in UFC history to win a fight without landing a single punch in the fight. a single punch. It was a great performance, a great post-fight interview, very emotional.

We had to have him back on the show. Always loved talking to this man. Mr. Finland is joining us right now via the magic of Skype. There he is. Mr. Finland himself, Makwan Amir Khani. Congratulations, my friend. Thank you. Thank you so much.

Did you know that? You're the first featherweight in UFC history to win a fight without landing a single punch. But didn't I knock out Andy Ogo? Well, I guess a single strike, I should say. Okay. That's great.

You're not very impressed. No. I'm, uh, I put some new goals, so. Was that one of them? No, no. But, uh, I don't want to get, I don't want to, I don't want to, somebody ruined this, uh, cute face, so. Well, what a moment it was.

It was a great win for you. It was an emotional one, as I said, and you were very confident. You called it. You said that if the fight went to the second round, you were going to bow down to this man. Of course, it didn't happen. You finished him. Everyone who bet on you won a lot of money. But did you think it would go like that, a submission?

Were you expecting that, a quick submission? No, it was another technique. But I don't want to say it now. What was the technique? because I will do it in the next fight. Really? This is a secret technique. Yeah, it's like so dangerous. Whoever comes and grapple with me, it's like, you can't stop me.

It comes so naturally. Like Reza was laughing one day. We were in a grappling session. Yeah. He was in a turtle position and he was singing, actually. And after like 10 seconds, the choke was so deep. He just tapped me with the two fingers. He didn't want that anybody sees it.

So then I was like, no way. I don't let you go before you tap. I was in All-Stars three months. I couldn't submit a resa. So it was a really good moment. Just a few weeks before a fight, you can tap, make a resa. up. Then I knew I'm ready for this fight. It was a confidence booster, as they say.

Yes. But you know, when you got him down, he fought it for a little bit. I mean, you had it. He was fighting. He was trying to grab your arm. You had one arm under his chin, but, you know, he lasted at least 20 seconds with you and, you know, the body lock and very, very, very close to finishing him. Were you surprised at how long he actually fought it off? Not actually because my grappling coach Alan Finfo, he told me you are in his back, you are not in a hurry.

Just go for it like do one step at the time and it will eventually come. when you are at someone's back, there is no way that they can escape. And it was just a matter of time when I just get a good rear naked choke. And when I took him down, I said, yes, he's down and that's it. Now it's my area. And I knew that it will be a really short fight after that when I took him down. So he didn't land any punches or strikes on you as well, right? So you're now two fights in the UFC

and no one has actually touched you, essentially. No one has hit you. This is a pretty good thing. Yeah, and I have, I don't actually remember, do I have 13 or 14 fights, but I have got only one punch to my face. In your entire career. Yeah, I swear.

You can look at all my fight. It's only one punch, and it didn't hurt or anything, but my nose was bleeding, and I just took him down after that punch. How long ago was that? It was just one fight before Stockholm, even. Okay. According to Sherdog, which is kind of the official record keeper, you're 12 and 2, so you have 14 fights. Okay, great. Good to know. Yes. So if someone didn't see our interview last month, they maybe wouldn't understand why you were so emotional afterwards. But when you, you know, you started crying, you were talking about your mother, it was very obvious to me that, you know, because you hadn't talked to her for so long, you're away from your family. This was all of that emotion, you know, all those nerves, the whole buildup of the fight coming out in front of the world. Is that what, you know, that was, is that why you were so emotional after the fight? Yeah, you saw me. I was a totally different.

Yeah. You told me I'm mad or angry and no it was just because I took myself away from the people who I like who has been taking care of me for so long and been there always so it was it wasn't easy to move to another country and be there alone for beginning so then I knew that uh you know it'd be terrible to do that such a what they call it. What is the word? Urauss. Sacrifice. Yes. And then you lose. So I was so happy that hard work paid off. But are you willing to keep doing that? Because it seemed like it was, you know, a lot of stress on you.

You're going to keep doing that. Yeah. I'm going to go back and train with the mad dog. So you're going to go live in the gym. You're not going to talk to your family. for the entire training camp, you're going to do the whole thing all over again? No, I have this Thai boxing coach. He's like really smart guy.

He's a world champion. And he said to me that after my fight, he wrote four papers where it was like analyzing me what I should train. And he was really satisfied with

training at the All-Stars. Every time when I came back to my train at my hometown, he always saw the difference and he said definitely just need to go and keep doing the same thing. And then he said every time when you come and visit your family, I can hold minutes and pass for you for two times in a day. And he explains everything in a way that I understand it, like in a best way. that's why I love to come and train with him because otherwise same kind of training nearest close place would be probably in Thailand.

But, you know, when you're in Sweden again training with All-Stars and your mother calls you, are you going to pick up the phone this time? Yeah, of course. Now I'm going to... Because that was... That fight was more important than a fight in a stock. because like people were doubting and I told you and I told everybody else that I want to end this fight in the first round really fast just to get people to my side in my country, Finland,

and let all the Kurds know that they have a new role model. Are you sensing that? Are you getting a lot of people from Kurdistan from Finland writing you saying that they look up to you that they notice what you're doing? Yeah, now it's much better. It was, let's say, maybe two, three times more stuff in the news than Stockholm flight. And people love the show in Berlin, and I'm still wondering, where is my bonus money. I was going to ask you about that.

You were pretty vocal. Were you shocked when you found out you didn't win the bonus? Yeah, because they are paying me to do a good show. I'm still keeping the hope that Dana White will call me. You think maybe they'll take care of you under the table? You know, sometimes they take care of fighters. Yeah. No, UFC is good.

It's good. They took really good care of me when I went to Berlin. When I came out from the airport, in front of the airport, there was this new, like so new and nice Mercedes picking me up. The driver was nice and he was like, man, if you need some drink, just push that button so it will make it cold. And then I was all the way to the hotel. I was just touching all kinds of buttons. There was like so many things that you could do with that car and it was funny.

There was TV and everything. And then I opened the window and I was screaming when I went to the hotel. And then my coach said to me that this is why I say that you are a perfect guy for this kind of business. You are enjoying everything. Yeah. Why were you screaming, though? Because you were excited? Yeah, because I knew that it started Tuesday and I knew that this will end.

in a best way. And you've now fought twice in the UFC. Have you ever actually talked to Dana White? Because he wasn't at your fight in Sweden either. No. But he did tweet about you. Huh? Yeah, that was nice.

That was nice. But what's up? Why is he avoiding you? I don't know. Maybe he has something special plan for me. You said that that's your last goal. I saw you write that on Twitter. Your last goal is to meet Dana White.

That's it. You're done after that? Yeah, it's like actually, I have made things that I can, when I'm older and I have kids, I can tell these things to my kids and I don't need to lie. It's true stories. So there are stories to tell to my future kids, but I just want to meet Danowit to so I can signature this and say I was there

and it's Dana White that when he tweeted about me immediately I was thinking Dwayne Johnson must see this tweet too La Roa your big rock fan? Yeah definitely

he was like when he smiles he without smiling too so I love that that actor and that guy So, yeah, that was the first thing that went through my mind. How did you feel about crying in front of everyone? Are you okay with that?

Are you upset that you showed that much emotion? No, actually, I don't care. You know, Ariel, that I don't care what people think. That's true. If I want to show my feelings to somebody, it doesn't matter how many people. people are watching and in the other hand it was a good thing because maybe it's a kind of example to young people to appreciate that you have you have parents and they took you made you to this life it's I get a lot of good messages to my inbox and to my

fan page about that from the young people So it made me kind of happy that people saw that I didn't fake. It was a great moment to me. How did you even find your mother in that Pax Stadium? How did you know where she was? Come on. I fought in Stockholm. There was 30,000 people.

Then I was like, come on, this place, I have to find it. It can't be hard. Did you see her leading up to the fight, or was that the first time you actually saw her? That was the first time. And then I went to my hotel after the fight and I didn't, I haven't seen my mom. Actually, I made this for you. My mom and my family, they are waiting outside in a car.

They came from Germany today. And I'm at my friend's place. And I don't care about them. And, uh... They're waiting for you right now. No, I'm here. I'm waiting. I told my mom,

and I'm going to do this interview. Then I come downstairs. Oh, wow. I appreciate that. That's very nice for you. So we won't keep you much longer. But by the way, isn't it like 10.30 almost there in Finland? Yeah.

They came 10 o'clock, so... But don't worry. Okay. I want, so they can wait. But it looks like it's very sunny in back of you, or is that something else? Is that the sun? Yeah, welcome to Finn.

It's that sunny right now at 10.30? Does the sun go down? Wow. No, the sun doesn't go down. It's really light here. 24 hours a day? It never goes down. Yeah, no. In the summertime, it's like this. That's amazing. What a life. Yeah. It's a great country with nature. It's like really great. It's a...

And we have a really long winter, and the summer is short, but then we respect the sun more. We don't go to the shadows. What's the best thing about all this? Like, is there a message that you received from someone, you know, a famous person writing to, a fan writing to something that your family said? Is there something that as a result of all the success that you've had that has really made this, you know, truly almost unimaginable? Well, probably must be the Finnish people because my last name is not so Finnish, not the first name. And I still hold the two flags. And in Finland, in Stockholm, they were hard to admit that I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a,

I'm fighting out of Finland and there's nothing that you guys can change. And this fight, it was like I got my respect from everybody and there were only good things where I saw from news and then people were actually like, they were standing behind me. And if somebody wrote something that he's not finished, there was like other Finnish people commenting that he's more finished than anyone else. And you know, kill Arman? I don't think so. Armand Alizad, he was on this TV show.

He wrote a nice story to his Facebook in Finnish that. Wow. Yeah, how can somebody do to say that Macon is not finished after doing that what he did in Berlin? so it was nice. So what's next now? Do we want a bigger opponent, a bigger name, do we want to fight in the USA? What do you want?

How much I trained to this fight? It was like three months. And like I said, when I made a result up, I knew that I'm getting better every day. And after this fight, I knew that all these guys, Actually, there's no limits. And I was looking at myself at the mirror and asking myself that can I be a good opponent to guys like top 15 in the world? And yeah, I can be.

And now I just want to train and get much better. Then I'm going to make Dennis Schiver retire. that's what you want Dennis Siever he's coming off a loss now a couple losses I feel like you're I don't care

I want Dennis Siever why do you want Dennis Seaver so bad I don't know it's when I just saw him fighting against McGregor I told two of my manager

said I can beat this guy and nobody said that you can beat beat him but they were quiet they didn't say anything now I feel that like

oh It's like that. You guys don't believe me. Then I'm going after a receiver. Okay. But the UFC will decide who I'm going to fight, and I just say yes. If it's not a receiver in the next fight,

then eventually I will fight him. And it seemed like you had a good connection with the champion. Yawani Yon Jacek. You guys were talking at the press conference, two European fighters doing well. What do you make of her? Yeah, there was a short. mini document about me and he wrote to me that I really liked your document and we were

she said here she's really glad that we fight in the same night and we were talking and it was nice to have a training law room in at the hotel in there was he was in the same room so it was nice to train each other and we have a same like a wear sponsor who made a t-shirt for us to Berlin and we felt that we are in the same team and she's a nice girl

and a really good fighter and actually amazing fighter and it was nothing but we are friends only yes of course of course by the way are you are you taken man or are you still playing the field now that you bring it up Actually, I became so hungry with this UFC. I forgot all the girls.

Oh, wow. I swear, all I want to do is eat, train, and sleep. Everybody said that I always say, hey, after this fight, if you win, you need to take vacation. And I told myself, I'm going to take vacation after this fight, and I was working so hard for this. But now I feel. should be in a training tomorrow five o'clock and i'm gonna probably be there so fighting is your wife fighting is your girlfriend yeah yeah it's it's going that way i didn't uh you know when people

a day inspire like inspire you by saying uh good things about your fights you become more hungry and you just want more and by the way and i i could totally i mean understand that i can't relate to it because I've never been in a fight myself, but it makes sense. I like the fact that, I believe your father's name was on your banner, right? And you pointed to it. Yes.

What do you think he would say about all this? His son now doing so well and becoming popular all over the world, representing his country, two countries. Do you ever think what he would say about all of this? You know, when we were kids, and me and two of my brothers, we went to wrestling competition.

And when we came back, he always said, so who was a lion and who was the high end? And always somebody didn't lift, after one who didn't lift hand. Right. Because I always lost. And now I can say that I was lying. So he is, I'm pretty sure he's proud. That's beautiful. That's great.

very happy for you, Makwan. Continued success. You're doing amazing stuff. Truly, one of the fun stories of the year. I mean, who saw this coming? I mean, really out of nowhere. And now here you are just annihilating people in the UFC. I'm really curious to see what they do with you next. Where you fight, who you fight, and keep on smiling. You know, I appreciated the intensity of your last interview, but it's nice to see that smile back again and that you're happy and enjoy the win. So congratulations to you and your family, and we'll talk to very soon. Okay. There he is. Makwan Amirkani, one of the true rising stars in the UFC. A great story, and it's always fun when these stories sort of come out of nowhere. It's a lot of fun. It's a lot of fun.

You know, who knew about Makwan Amirkani prior to Stockholm in January? I mean, really, it's amazing. And now what he's fought, a combined minute and 49 seconds, no one's landed a strike on him. You know, he's incredibly confident, incredibly charismatic, entertaining. He's emotional. This is a lot of fun. I love when these stories emerge, when these fighters emerge. It's the beauty of our sport. So thank you very much to him.

Congratulations to him and his family. That does it for today's interviews. Now let's go inside the vault. I spoke about this interview last week. We ran out of time, and I still think it's apropos. It's October 4th, 2008, of course, a date that will live in, infamy. That was the date of the first Kimbo

Slice Kent Shamrock fight. That was not to be. That was the Elite XE Heat Show and Sunrise Florida. That was the show that was airing on CBS. It was supposed to be Kimbo versus Shamrock. It was supposed to be the main event. And

well, all eyes were on Florida because this was a big rivalry that was going to play out on broadcast television. Of course, you know the story by now, a couple hours before, the event, Ken Shamrock mysteriously cuts himself. They then announce on broadcast television Jimmy Lennon Jr. does that Shamrock is out and in is a man named Seth Petrazzellie of the Ultimate Fighter

Fame who's supposed to fight Aaron Rosa on that card. He steps in on what? A couple hours notice. You know the story goes in there and knocks out Kimbo's Slice in a matter of seconds. Well, after that fight in Sunrise, I spoke to our old pal Scala, Jared Shaw, whose name emerged last week. He was in that finally documentary that Spike put out that sort of Barker show about the fight. Some people were wondering if he'd show up. I actually texted him. I didn't hear back. But I conducted a somewhat memorable interview with Mr. Scala, Mr. Jared Shaw, who was kind of known as Kimbo's handler slash promoter slash hypeman slash PR guy. He had a very famous reaction to the loss. And his reaction to the the whole evening was very memorable to say the least. It ended up being the last show for Elite X-Cee. They folded shortly thereafter. It was a chance to catch up with a man who had just

essentially seen his whole MMA world come crashing down. He didn't admit it at the time, but everyone thought that way, and it was pretty clear after what happened to Kimbo in a matter of seconds in that cage in Sunrise, Florida. So let's go inside the vault now. Let's go back to October 4, 2008, and take a look at my... post-fight interview with the one and only Scala, Jared Shaw. Ariel Hall at the ElitexC post-fight press conference, and I'm being joined by Jared Shaw. Jared, a ton to talk to you about, but let's start at the top. Kimbo Slice loses Seth Petrazzelli. Is this your worst nightmare? No, not at all. I think it's some people's

dreams come true. Maybe some Kimbo fans' nightmares for me. It's just another day in the organization. Seth Petrazzellie, you know, he had the opportunity of a lifetime. It knocked. He answered it. Modern Rocky Balboa, you know, he's a very promotable guy. Everybody in this sport is promotable. Just because Kimbo Slice may have been at the top for us, doesn't mean the whole time we weren't gathering all our other nuts. So now we have fantastic fighters. And we have plenty of stars up here, as you saw, guys like Benji Radick had a tremendous knockout today. We have an incredibly deep 185-pound division, so obviously he'll be there. I'm not going to run down the rock thing yet. We'll talk about it. But on Petrazzelli, you know, he's a name

now in the heavyweight division or in the light heavyweight division. He can fight in both, which is great for us because Rafael Féjao Calcante is there. You know, hey, I saw a guy in the audience today with some blonde hair. He's an interesting guy. And obviously, Kimbo Slice is going to be back. You know, again, it's not something that I consider catastrophic. There are a lot of circumstances there, obviously. This is a guy taking a fight on basically two hours notice,

has never seen tape on the fighter before. So, hey, knockouts happen. I mean, that's what makes this game great. You know what I mean? Like surprises every day. Clear something up for me because we were doing the live chat on M. M-M-A-rated.com and people were saying that they saw you during the replay screen. No. Is that true? I didn't see it, but clear something up.

What I went and said to the ref was they needed to look at the video because from my eyesight, it looked like a second illegal blow to the head was the second punch. I just want fair mixed martial arts. You know what I'm saying? Either way, that Petrazzelli, that first punch, that landed clear. That busted Kimball Slice up. That dropped him. You know, there's no no in that. That's real. I'm happy to Seth Petrazzelli one. I just want to make sure we have the right decisions at all time. Again, I always say, like the last time, I think, when we spoke in July on a CBS, from a rest point of view, you never know what's going on. The action is so quick.

What I could say, I could say no or yes, and it doesn't matter because, hey, it's his decision. But I think the camp's going to review the tape anyway, and if they want to protest it, they'll protest it. And from a promoter standpoint, where do you go from here? Because obviously Kimbo Slic, he was your top dog. How do you kind of put him back there in the spotlight at the top? and let fans know that this guy is legit, and he's someone that we should consider a top heavyweight in the sport? I mean, I think fans think he's legit anyway.

He has that it factor, that mystique about him. There's no doubt he's a prolific puncher. You know, what MMA champion you can point me to hasn't lost. You know, in the world. BJ Penn is the greatest fighter in the world, in my opinion, better than Fador, and he has many losses. So losses happen, and Kimbo will be back. You know, the thing Kimbo can learn from tonight is, you know,

not that he wasn't prepared for Seth Petrazzelli, but hey, he can suffer a defeat and come back from it, and that's what he'll learn. And Kimbo Slice, you heard him up here, you know what I'm saying? Like, all MMA fans, it bothers me because I'm not sticking up for Kimbo. You guys should just really like him, because at the end of the day, Kimbo Slice thanked everybody up here and said it's Seth Petrazzelli's time now.

He didn't come in here and demand a rematch. He didn't talk about what we just talked about a second punch to the back of the head. He accepted his defeat. He shook the man's hand, and he thanked them all in front of you. If people fans can't respect him, that out there, then I don't really know what fans want. But for us, at Elite XC, there's only way to go is up. I mean, I thought this was a fantastic night of fights, really did,

top to bottom, some of the greatest mixed martial artists in the world today fought on this car. The Jake Shield's fight was tremendous. Arlofsky's fight was trying to, the girls, girl fighting should no longer be called girl fighting. It should just be called fighting. Because without a doubt, girls bring it, just like guys do. So to me, I thought this was a really successful night. And at the end of the day, we got another star. And maybe we got some drama there, you know. I'm sure everybody wants to see a rematch with six weeks built up and see, hey, what was going on with Kimbo? I don't even know. All right. Let me quickly ask you, Ken Shamrock, are you still interested in having him be a part

of your company? I mean, something like this happening at the last minute and almost blowing up the whole card, your thoughts on that? Yeah, I mean, for me, that's tough right now because, you know, I'm honest. That's what I hope people understand that when I speak, it's always honesty. And with Ken Shamrock, I just don't really know right now. if he found a way out or he actually had an accident happen. Do you believe that? Do you believe that he actually was trying to get out of the fight? I'm just saying I don't know what to believe because I do know that there was a cut,

a laceration. Yes, 100% over his left eye. I saw it with my own eyes. The commission came in and they definitely said we could not go with this fight. And that's what would help hold us back from everybody for so long, the press. We were trying to figure out, hey, we hadn't seen Kenya. Is the cut real? Is the psychological warfare against Kimbo?

You know, hey, you know, at the end of the day, the guy is a showman and a great fighter. So you never know what's going to happen. And at the end of the day, the laceration was there. They said there's no fight, but I didn't see how the laceration happened. And you've got to take a fighter's word for it. To me, I don't know if all fighters fight and spar as hard as they fight the same day. I spoke to Tito, and he told me he does. So I'm going to side on thinking that fighters do that.

Maybe some don't. But for right now, I just don't really know what to think about that. I mean, you know, there's some interesting fights out there for Ken, but we've got to have Ken fight. Any truth to the rumor that he asked for more money at the last minute to actually fight? No, that definitely never happened. We never even had an opportunity, if that was some ploy, to even discuss it. It was literally, he came in, we ushered him right into a dressing room. The Florida Commission was right there.

They took a look at him. He wanted to go. His personal doctor said it wasn't a go who was a neurosurgeon, and the commissioner looked at him and said, I can't let this laceration. going, he was just defeated, and I walked out of the room. There's nothing to discuss. Final question. As I entered the press conference today, someone said to me, there is one very happy man in this world right now.

I responded, Seth Petrazzelli. He actually said Dana White. How do you respond to that? I don't know what he could be happy about. I mean, this was a fantastic card. We're players, buddy. You know what I'm saying? I said in my comments already on Dana, you know.

He wants to use derogatory remarks. He only makes himself look stupid. All right. Well, a tough night for Elitex. see kind of turned out interesting at the end of the day not a tough night at all for EliteXE. Maybe some tough situations to go, but at the end

of the day what I wish everyone would take away from this is we put on the event. We didn't send fans home packing. Kimbo didn't not fight. He didn't have to. We made it happen. And it was a great night of fights, and hopefully the ratings are great on CBS. I mean, you were in here with the attendance. You could talk to your fans. The attendance was fantastic. The pop was out there.

I mean, I've thought it was a really great fight. I don't think for a second. It was a tough night for us. I just think it's another day in the promotional field of combat sports. Thanks for the time, Jared. Absolutely, Ariel. Who doesn't miss Jared Shaw? I miss Scala.

And it's interesting to note that Seth Petrazelli was in attendance on Friday. Apparently, according to some tweets and reports, he stormed the cage, claiming that Kimbo Slice tapped and wants a rematch and all that stuff. I guess they could go that route. I mean, I think that's definitely a viable route. I mean, obviously they're in the Kimbo business now, and there's some legs behind it because he won. If he didn't win, it would have been tough.

He definitely didn't appear to be in the best shape of his career, that's for sure. Of course, he's a lot older. And you can make jokes and you could say everything that you want about the fight and how sloppy it was, how old they look. But you've got to give the guy credit. He did fight through that, and I don't believe that there was any funny business, hokey-pokey stuff. I think he just really hates Ken Shamrocky.

and didn't want to tap him. And he beat him up. He knocked him out. And now he can move on with his life. So there's Jared Shaw back in October of 2008. It's so much fun to look back at where we were. And Jared Shaw talking about Dana White and Gina Carrano and Seth Petrazzelli and where we are now. I'll never forget that night. It was a very memorable one for me. I actually broke the news. I was sitting there with all the journalists. And I remember emailing them the news that Ken Shamrock was out and there was no Twitter back then so everyone was scrambling

and then that interview we also interviewed Petrazzelli I remember I was working with a shooter in Florida and they were horrendous it was a huge pain in the ass I remember uploading the videos after the event and Chris Cyborg it was like 4 a.m. at this point and Chris Cyborg walked into the business center

after taking a shower her hair was wet she had just won that night as well and I was just sitting in the business center a tiny business center next to Chris Cyborg. She was checking her email. And that was somewhat surreal. And then the following week, I got married. So remember all the time for me.

And then I remember Elite XC going under while I was on my honeymoon in Israel. What a time it was. But I'll say this. I was re-watching that interview and then we'll move along. I'll say this. I will always, always be thankful for the Elite XCs, the IFLs, the strike forces, the afflictions of the world. Because again, back then in 2008, when I was working, for MMA rated, the UFC wouldn't credential me. And I don't believe if I was the same person

trying to make it as an MMA journalist in 2015, given the landscape, I don't think I'd get very far, to be honest, if I'm not credentialed by the UFC. And the UFC is a much different operation now, as far as their PR team is concerned, and a lot more fair. And, you know, back then it was just ridiculous the way. I mean, I couldn't even get credentialed as a member of the Versus.com team, the broadcast partner of the UFC, excuse me, of the WC, which they also then started airing some UFC events later on. How crazy is that? And so those organizations, EliteXC and Strike Force and the IFL and Affliction,

they gave, and those events were rather notable. CBS, Showtime, people were talking about them. They had big names. Thank God for them. Because if they weren't around, I mean, who knows? It would have just been a dream. I'm really grateful to the, you know, as much as we may make fun of the Jared Chows of the world. Without them, I really don't think any of this would have been possible.

So I feel compelled to mention that. Okay. One more thing before I get to the calls, by the way, my friend Michael Carroll of Fightmetric, correct in me, the stat as far as Makwana Mirkani is concerned, is first UFC featherweight to not throw a strike, and win a fight. To not throw a strike and win a fight. Masio Fuland landed a strike

and Yogo landed zero. So that's the official stat for Mr. Makwan Amir Kani. Okay, let's go to some calls. I'm glad people stepped up. Let's see if they actually are good calls. First, let's go to Brian in Maryland. Brian, are you there?

I am here. What's going on? Hey, buddy. How you doing? I'm good. What's on your mind? Well, I'm still, you know, talking about the Kimbo and Shamrock's fight. I'm still not sure the legitimacy of the fight. Why? I know you, well, considering Ken Shamrock's ability and grappling, I mean, he's well known for his submission, you know, submission game. How does it exist?

I mean, okay, we'll talk about his age in a minute, obviously, but he has a guy. that he's a guy flattened out on his stomach with barely any training in submission fighting besides for maybe, you know, minor defense. And he doesn't manage to submit him. I mean, and just the way he had his hands, like, it's like he was just rubbing Kimbo's bald head for some odd reason. He just, it was weird. It was honestly really weird, how that's.

fight played out. Obviously, it was perfect for Bellator, considering Ken is a 51-year-old guy. But I was listening to the Joe Rogan companion with Brendan Schaub, and Shab did mention that a 51-year-old fighter is a little bit different than a 51-year-old, you know, regular, you know, regular person, considering how much, you know, damage they take over the years. So maybe, I don't know, It just seems odd to me. I mean, I know you're all up in arms about it and stuff like that. Trust me. I'm not up in arms.

I think, like I said earlier, it was what it was. It was a nice rating stink for Bellator. It's not going to last very long. And it's somewhat unfortunate that that steals the headlines because that wasn't big-time MMA. That wasn't Major League MMA. But, you know, I get it. People like freak shows.

People like spectacles. I get it. I'm fine with it. But if you look at the finish, I mean, so what do you think? You think that that Kent said to him, And let's all forget, Ken Chimerach is a 51 world, as you said, who had not fought since 2010, who had not won since October of 2010, who was obviously on the decline. I mean, if this opportunity didn't present itself, I'd be pretty surprised if he ever fought again.

And so you think that they decided to come together to throw this fight for whatever reason, and of course they could be in on it and strike force, excuse me, Beltor, could be in the dark. And then Ken is going to agree to actually get punched in the first. face several times gets split open all for, you know, for a few bucks. I don't know. I mean, look, he was living in a trailer and nothing's impossible and he does have the pro wrestling background. But if you're going to throw a fight, why throw it like that? Why not have them, you know, reverse and then have Kimbo submit him or ground and pound, something like that? I mean, he was legit. Did you see those punches at the end of the fight?

Oh, I don't disagree. The ending was real. So what? Knocking was, knock him out for sure. So what's the fix? and loosened the choke. I mean, it was kind of sketchy. I don't know. I think it's real that they don't like each other, and they wanted to fight. Kimba said, fuck this guy.

I'm just going to be, you know, if I get out of this, I'm going to just, you know, whip his ass, and that's what he did. I like the fight regardless, but I'm still, you know, there's still a question. You just never know the truth, period. You never know the truth, period,

regardless of, you know, what said on the internet or what Scott Kirkker said or anybody. Of course. Well, I appreciate the comment. I appreciate the insight. That freak show. We got, you know, Connor McGregor and Jose Otto coming up.

Obviously, it's going to be a huge fight. But I think people are just not giving Hall of Jose Otto the respect he deserves. I mean, considering his resume, I mean, he beat Uriah Faber. He beat Mendez twice. I mean, he beat Frankie Edgar and Ricardo Lama. It's right there.

Gregor's never touched that type of competition ever. Well, of course he's been champion for a long longer. For some reason, I think the stuff that McGregor does takes the belt from the desk and the pawns Aldo. There's no way that gets into his head. I mean, he's too experienced to let that happen, in my opinion. I mean, I just wanted to get your thoughts on that. I mean, do you think people are just looking past Aldo? No, I don't understand he's champions, but...

I don't think people are looking past them. I think some are buying into the hype, but I think the hype is very real. I think anyone who discredits McGregor at this point is just fooling themselves. Look at all the people he has defeated in the UFC. He's 5 and 0 in the UFC. All still very relevant fighters. Look at Max Holloway as of late. Look at Dustin Porriere as of late.

All still in the UFC is still very relevant. He annihilated all of them except for Holloway, which, you know, of course, he suffered a torn ACL in the middle of the fight, still dominated him. Yeah, I understand. Some will say he didn't fight Frankie Edgar. He didn't fight Chad Mendez. but that would be actually stupid for the UFC at this point. Look at all the money he is generating. Look at all the hype.

Look at all the buzz. Why would they have risk, A, a fight against those tough fighters before he gets a shot at the title. B, guys who have already lost to Joseo. So if they beat him, if they beat McGregor, you're going to have to do a rematch. It's bad business. Yes, you have to understand the way this whole game works.

It's bad business. Everything they've done with McGregor, honestly, you can't really nitpick anything from debuting him in Europe to bringing him to bringing him to Boston, then to Ireland, putting him on that pay-per-view that was supposed to be a big one with Jones and Cormion, and then of course putting him back in Boston. Everything they've done

along the way, and then the world tour and the Embedits has been perfect. They have not messed us up one second. It's been an absolute home run. I'm not saying they messed up. I don't think they messed up. I think it was just, what they did was perfect, obviously, because they don't want McGregor to lose, period.

I think they wanted to beat all in, too, but shit, I just lost my train of thought. Well, I will I will use that as my out here because we have to run, but I appreciate the call. Great call. So you did well, and I thank you for the time, my friend. All right, there he is.

Brian from Maryland is, that's a good way to start things off. So now I'm starting to gain a little more trust in the callers. Let's see if we can keep it going. Frankie. Oh, no, he wants to talk about Frankie. Aaron in L.A. is up next. Aaron, are you there? Yes, I'm here.

How's it going, are you? Hey, man, what's up? Oh, you know, it's just in my mouth, energy, you know. Oh, yeah. Well done. My question about, I really don't think it's smart for Frankie Edgar to say, oh, I'm going to sit there and demand my title shot after this fight. Honestly, this fight is huge.

We all know it. I got so many people, some of my friends are all looking forward to this fight. This fight's going to be a big of the year, no doubt. but we don't, odds are the way it's going to turn out, just how dominant Frankie Edgar, I mean, Jose Aldo is champion, and how much shit Conn McGregor talks. There's going to be a rematch.

That being said, why not challenge Chad Mendez, who, if you want to base on, you're only as good as your last performance, Frankie's fight with Uriah was, I'm not going to say lackluster, I enjoyed it, but if you went on Twitter, a lot of people didn't like it. But then you look at Chad's last fight, He annihilated Ricardo Lama. Something that no one was able to do in the UFC.

I think why not challenge Chad Mendes? Take them out if you really believe you're the number one contender and then fight for the title. I just want to know you and New York Ricks' opinion on that. You want New York Ricks opinion, really? Come on. No, I will get his opinion in a second. I say that it's the smart thing to do.

It gets people talking. It lets the world and the UFC know you want that title shot. So I don't expect him to say anything less. But I will agree if McGregor wins, you have to do the immediate rematch. If McGregor loses, I think Edgar gets the shot. So I don't think, I mean, that's definitely a possibility. I don't think it's the craziest thing in the world. If McGregor loses on July 11th.

You would have to lose by a complete knockout, right? Because why, he's not the champion? He's not the champion. He's not the champion, though. He's not the champion. So I don't think a guy who loses to the champion, unless it's some big controversy, deserves an immediate rematch. Mr. New York, Rick, what do you think? See, this is what happens.

People ask him questions. He's on the phone. It's hard for him to multitask like that. But honestly, if McGregor wins, excuse me, if he loses, he should not get an immediate rematch unless there's some kind of huge controversy. All right, my friend? I agree. I agree. Thank you for the call.

I appreciate it. That's pretty good stuff. That's two for two. How about that? A lot of people are going to be there, International Fight Week. Frankie Edgar wants a title shot. Johnny Hendricks wants a title shot.

A few more stats about Saturday night in Berlin. 126 to 25. Significant strikes in favor of Yohanna Yom Jacek. Her plus 101 significant strike differential is the second largest in UFC championship history. The greatest differential in a title fight belongs to Rich Franklin for his... Come on. This is Michael Carroll writing this.

His demolition of Ariel Hawani's favorite fight, David Lozzo at UFC 58, Franklin went plus 106. Oh, another call. How about that? Matthew in Toronto. Matthew, are you there? I am. How are you, Ariel? I'm great.

What's up, man? Hey, first of all, I just wanted to say, I'm in Toronto. I'm originally from Montreal, and I am a huge expo fan. So I just wanted to thank you on behalf of representing them and having that in your Twitter avatar and everything. That is completely awesome. My question to you is regarding Claudia Goodella. Yes. Well, we saw her prove herself against Juana in their fight last year and with a close split decision.

But my question is besides Claudia, who could potentially fight her again with a win when she's fighting in the next few weeks, who is the dark horse that you see in the woman's strawweight division? besides Claudia, who is the dark horse that you see to be the next not only legitimate contender but true threat to Yawanna. We see Tisha Torres who is unbeaten, but she wasn't not convincing in Mexico. We have Paige Van Zandt who, while she's very marketable and has the Reebok sponsorship, may not have proved herself tremendously in the cage. So I just wanted to get your opinion on who you see in the division

as the next legitimate challenger and threat besides Claudia Godella. Well, I appreciate the call, and it's great to hear from a fellow Montreal and a fellow Montreal Expos fan. That is awesome. I love the accent. I will say this. You fail to mention Jessica Aguilar, who's the one who's fighting Claudia Gedelia,

who I think is one of the very best straw weights in the world. She's the former WSOF champion who just signed with the UFC. She'll be fighting Claudia on August 1st. I think if she wins 100%, she deserves a title shot. I do think that while the rankings in the 115-pound division are kind of, I mean, right now I kind of think they're all over the point. place and I'm not sure if they're actually great indicators of where everyone truly is, I do think that there is a big gap between the champion and the rest. I do think that Yawanna is really that much

better than everyone else. That being said, to answer your question, other names that I'm still keeping an eye on, I think that Rose Nama Yunus is still someone who's developing. I think she's very young, but I still think that at some point she can realize her potential and eventually fight for a title. I think it's a little early with Paige, of course, she's doing well. I'm not ready to count out Joanne Calderwood just yet. I think she's very good. And another name who, I don't know if she'll ever be a champion, but I think she's very tough. She's a gritty fighter.

And, you know, she could climb the ranks. We'll see how far she gets is Randem Marcos. Another fellow Canadian, I think she's very good as well. But I really think that after Claudio Guadalia and the Aguilar fight, there's a bit of a gap there between the rest and Yuana. And by the way, I love that. I think that's

great for the division. I think it's great to have a cocky, confident champion who's going to go out there, back up her talk, finish her opponents. Great on the mic. I mean, she's perfect for that developing division right now. They couldn't have asked for anything better. I definitely agree.

Thank you for your input. And I just wanted to say the only issue that I have with, Joanna, as impressive she is on the feet, is the fact that, you know, she's proved herself against Carla, and she's proved herself now against Jessica Peney. But the problem is she's really good with her take-down defense, but we haven't seen her use any of her jihitsu. So what I'm worried about is whether it's Claudia Gidea.

Della or Jessica Aguilar or even a future contender, if Paige Van Dan can prove herself or Randemarko, my issue is the fact that if someone can get her to the ground successfully, what happens from there? Because although she's been so impressive, even as of this past weekend, what happens when she gets to the ground? Will she be tested?

Because when you look at someone like Ronda Rousey, she has the pedigree on the ground, and because of Edmund, her striking obviously has come to this new, found great level. So will we see that being tested in Yawanna's game? will we see someone take her down and what will be the result? How about that take-down defense? Everyone said that Carlos Sparza was going to take her down, and look what happened there against a high-level wrestler,

as far as these straw weights are concerned. So honestly, I don't have those doubts. I think, I like those comparisons. Dana White tweeted some video of her and Chuck Ladell, you know, these clips spliced together, and it was a lot of fun. And actually, the finish of the Asparza fight was actually rather reminiscent of one of those Tito-R-Tis wins. they've got a star and it's great that she's European and she

really gets it. She was great on the mic afterwards. I appreciate the call my friend. Thank you very much. Thank you Ariel and thanks for representing the Expos and thank you for representing Montreal and Canada and all the best. All right. I wanted to get my flag here but I didn't realize that they actually tied it up which is a smart thing to do. Okay one more phone call. This is great. One of these days I'd love to do an all phone call show. Can we actually pull that off? I think we can. I'd love to do that. One more phone call.

It's our good friend Bill Steinmetz from Las Vegas, the fight capital of the world. Bill, are you there? I am here, sir. How are you doing? You are the man, Bull. What's on your mind? I'm just excited to be speaking with the charizmetically gifted mention of the man himself.

Wow. How about that? What I wanted to talk to you about was the, well, first give you props on the interview with Connor last week. That was just awesome. I was just sitting there listening to it on my way home from work and thought, Ariel Hohan yet again impresses with a great interview, so great work with that, bud. Thank you. My question is, reference that interview.

It kind of sparked a little bit of a historical thought in my mind about when we're talking about Chale possibly taking over for Dana later on and taking over that role. And then we heard Connor talking about getting into business with EBC and working with them. So I just want to kind of get your thoughts on Connor stepping into that role of that Dane White role. if you thought that would ever happen, and if so, would he do well? Oh, man. I mean, that's really down the line. You know,

there are often rumors about the UFC being sold and all this stuff, and I have a hard time, Dana White, in his early 40s, even if, like, let's say I'm some billionaire, let's say I'm some hedge fund, whatever, and I want to buy the UFC. I'm only buying the UFC if Dana White is still on board. Dana White is the face of the UFC. And, you know, maybe he's sick of this.

If he is, showing really any signs of that, it still feels when he talked to him privately, publicly, that he still very much loves the fight game and I have a hard time seeing him walk away. So I think any talk of anyone replacing him, of course, you know, things can happen in life. But right now with him, you know, healthy and still loving the sport and having that joie de vivre for the sport, I really have a hard time seeing anyone replace him. And if anyone did replace him, to me, the first, the obvious one would be Lorenzo Furtita. You have to have someone who, you know, all the fighters respect.

You know, you see what happens when Dana's not there, the wayans, the press conferences, you know, the fighters start acting a little crazy. I don't know if a guy as polarizing as Connor McGregor, and he's very young. I mean, he has a whole career ahead of him, and we hope that we'll see him fight for the next 10, 15 years. I don't think a guy like Connor, I can't foresee that happening. I also can't foresee a guy like Chale with his history now sliding into a role like that for the UFC, maybe for another promotion, but not for the UFC. I think a true promoter. And also, this is something that you have to remember. And this is something that a lot of other promotions don't understand.

A promoter, a face, can't just be a guy who speaks well. I mean, let's be honest. Scott Coker, when he's out there, you know, doing those interviews and he's on stage at the event, he's not the best speaker. He's not the most eloquent speaker. But people have to believe that the figurehead, the promoter, can A-promote, but also that he actually is making those calls behind the scenes, that he's hiring and firing, that he's making fights, that he's signed.

We have to believe what happened when Scott Coker was the head of strike force, but Zufo is running the show. His interviews became pretty much useless. You know, towards the end of WEC, we knew who was running the show. The interviews became useless, and we've seen this with other promotions as well. You need to have a face who's, A, you know, good in interviews, charismatic, but also that, most importantly, people believe is actually making decisions. And, you know, it's like, you know, when Glory wants to put a Bill Goldberg as the figurehead, It's not just about coming out there and standing on the dais and, you know, making fights and talking about them. It's about actually believing the media believes, the fans believe that this guy is an actual wheeler and dealer.

This is the guy who's actually, you know, making a difference. That's why people love hearing from Dana because they believe that he's the one, you know, telling them what's going on behind the scenes. So it can't just be a guy that they put in there. It actually has to be a person who has influence behind the scenes who's actually making these decisions. You get what I'm saying? I totally get what you're saying. You know, it's probably partially, I'm guilty of some. some wishful thinking.

It just seems with the globalization, and we see with all the different events that he's having a lot of other people step out and take that role for him, because let's be honest, you can't be everywhere. Yeah. So, I mean, I guess the fan boy in me says,

maybe Connor will step into some sort of media type role later on down the line, especially with, you know, how much they're spreading around the world. So great point. Thank you, sir. Appreciate it. Great to speak to you. By the way, before I let you go,

and that's a good point as well, but I'd like to think of Connor as a fight, for at least the time being. Yeah, I shouldn't sell his time short. Yes. Hey, you know, we're sponsored by Noss. As you know, that sponsorship is, at least for now, I believe, coming to an end in the next couple of weeks.

We appreciate their support very much. And a couple of weeks ago, our good friend Ash, who is a longtime supporter of the show, we hooked her up with some GSP signed gloves. And this has been New York and I's plan from the beginning. We said it was a no-brain, when we got two GSP signed gloves. We were going to give them to Ash,

and the other pair we were going to give to you. And I'm so happy that you actually called in. We didn't even plan this. I'm holding your gloves right here, signed by the man himself, George St. Pierre, Noss Energy Drink, Hayabusa gloves. You have been such a great fan

and supporter of the show. You actually hooked us up with presents way back when to New York Rick and I. He gave us the edible arrangements, all that stuff. So nothing would make us happier than to give you these pair of gloves signed by GSP,

to thank you for. everything you've done for us. You give us a lot of, you know, support and confidence, and we appreciate that very much. We appreciate your fandom and your listenership and your viewership. So, Bill, these are yours. These are coming your way. Hey, you guys are awesome.

And yet again, the mention of a man, Ariel Hawani. And let's not forget New York, Rick, whose birthday is coming up in a few weeks. Let's not forget about that. Throw them under the bus there. But thank you so much, guys. It means a lot to me. Okay, we'll hook you up soon. Thank you, Bill.

Hey, hey, you bet. Take care of them. All right. there you have it. MMA hour making people's dreams come true each and every day. New York Rick, when's your birthday? Coming up on August 1st. What the hell? My birthday is before yours. Where's my mention? I think it's because we're friends on Facebook, so... Okay. But that's a great moment. That is a great moment right there. And we'd even plan that, but we did plan to give him the gloves. We did. We didn't plan on him calling, so that was perfect. Love that. Okay, we've got to get to questions and all that stuff.

But let's weigh in. What do you think about all this fight fixing stuff? Do you agree with me? Do you disagree? No, I agree with you. I think, you know, there's no, what's the motivation? What's the reason to make? Well, you can understand the motivation.

It's better for them to have Kimbo win. I mean, that's obvious, right? How much better? I think it's bad. I think Kimbo's a bigger star to the mainstream, to the masses. But to the point where you fix it? I mean, it really does. I don't think, I don't think that there's really that much of a benefit.

It's, you know, if, if ever. there was any time to do it, I don't think this fight is the one. This is not the one. Like, if you're trying to build somebody up, it's not going to be Kimbo. You know, if you're in the business of, and I'm by no means saying that anybody who we're talking about here is in that business because I really don't believe that. If you're in the business of fixing fights, you would think that it would be for somebody who you could really build on.

And whereas Kimbo Slices, you know, at this point, I think it would be in, you know, big name fights and not so much of a, uh, uh, uh, uh, a contender. So it really just doesn't make sense, in my opinion. I agree. Why this one? Why this one? It's essentially the question.

So I think we can put that to bed, yeah? I mean, I don't think it's going to go to bed with us talking about it here. I really hope. I mean, I saw Vice write something about the anatomy of a, come on, what is that? I love Jack Slack, but I don't know. Did you read that article? I did. What was that?

He was not advocating that it was. Okay. What was he doing? A fix. He was kind of breaking down what a fix might look like. Okay. You know, why somebody would fix the fight using historical references. But never insinuated that this was a fix? Well, he analyzes it and says that, you know, there's objective things that may make it look that way. But I think the end conclusion is that it really wouldn't make too much sense, similar to what I'm saying.

So who brought that up earlier? Oh, maybe, who brought that up earlier that it was on Vice? Was it Pollack? Maybe. I don't know. Anyway. Silly talk. Let's move on. Let's move on. Yohanna Yanjachic has developed enough popular.

Oh, I'm sorry. Has she developed enough popularity to headline a paper review? She's the total package, and if she gets put on a paper review event with two title fights, I wouldn't complain if she was put in the main event, despite being the lighter weight class. So, UFC Facewop, big fan. Yes. I think she is must-see TV. I don't think anyone would argue with that right now.

But what I would do with Yohanna would be essentially what they haven't been doing with Demetrius. It's... Oh, I think I just plug my headphones. I would pair her up with a Chris Widman... Ronda Rousey? I was going to get to the Rousey thing in a second. Because you remember I was one who said that I would put her in the co-main event of UFC 190 against Claudia Godelia before all this happened,

before the Augustus and injury and she fought in Berlin, which ended up being fine. She came across like a star, was great for fight pass, I had no problem with her placement on that card. But yes, the Ronda Rousey main event, co-main event scenario would be absolutely perfect. That to me, and look, now the timing might work because of the fractured thumb and because Rousey's fighting in August, maybe they'll fight end of the year or something like that. I think that's the most ideal scenario for her next,

and they seem to have a great relationship, but I'm not quite sure she can headline a pay-per-view on her own just yet. In fact, I would drop the whole title fights only on paper-view, and we're seeing that change a little bit this summer with this fight and then the Dillishov fight on Fox. You know, I don't mind having her on Big Fox. I mean, that would be something as well, or even on FS1 and have a million people watch her.

But she is definitely a star in the making, and I think she only becomes more popular, and I think it's great that she's not an American. You know, if she was American, it would lessen, I think, her impact, the impact that she's going to have. I think the fact that she's a European champion really will make her into even a bigger star, in my opinion. From our friend Jason Jones, besides Mark Munoz's post-fight speech earlier this year,

I've never felt more emotion and more pride in being a diehard MMA fan than I felt after Macwan Ameriqani's post-fight speech. The respect he showed toward his mother is why I truly believe that some fighters are the best people on the planet. My question is how far you see Amir Khani making it in the fight game, and who would you like to see him fight next? You know, he's such an interesting guy because, like Yohana, a ton of confidence, calls his shots. I mean, he really, there's this new breed of fighter now, very much like Connor, and I hate always having to compare people to Connor, but he kind of started this thing where he wasn't the first one to be confident, but it's like these

fighters that are coming out, these young mixed martial artists are coming out and And just, and maybe it's the European thing. I don't know what it is. All three of them are European. Just oozing, charisma and confidence. And just, you know, you can't look away when they fight. And Makwan is one of those guys. He's great.

I know some people don't really get his demeanor and might not like his interviews. I love him. You know, of course, witnessed the fact that I have him on the show all the time now. But I think he's very talented. But let's see. You know, he's fought two guys. One is no longer in the UFC. I think they're bringing him along slowly.

I'm very curious to see what they do with him next. I'm not in favor of the Dennis Siever fight. I don't think that makes a lot of sense for both him and Seaver, to be honest. But I see him being a player in this division. He claims who had never been punched, or only been punched once in his entire career, 14 fights. That's a pretty amazing stat. I still don't know how far he can go.

I think it's a little too early to say that. I mean, it's impossible, right? Yeah, I mean. But he's, if there's a break, When we talk about breakout stars again in the year, he's on that short list. Absolutely. Excuse me.

Kimbo, where does he go from here? Is it only super fights from now on? Kimbo said as an older fighter, he'll only take big fights that makes sense. Who do you think Kimbo should fight next? I'm not interested in the James Thompson fight. I heard people talk about that. To me, the two fights that make the most sense off the bat,

the Petrazzelli rematch, which I don't love because it feels like it's, it's too much like backward stuff. You know, like, we, we already dealt with October 4th. He fought, he fought, Ken, enough of that. Let's move forward. To me, the fight that gets him the most attention is Herschel Walker.

Herschel Walker told Luke Thomas this past weekend that he wants to fight again. He's interested in fighting again. Of course, he's friends with Scott Coker. He was there. That's the fight that's going to get them on SportsCenter. Everyone's going to talk about it. I don't know if it's, you know, for the right reasons,

I don't think it will be high-level MMA, but I think that's the fight that gets them the most at a Kimbo slice at this point. Do you agree? I'm cool with the Petrazzelli fight. I mean, it's always going to be looking back. Every Kimbo fight is going to be some kind of retrospective. Well, in a way, yeah, because it's Herschel walker,

you're turning back the clock, it's old-timers. Let's just get the Petra-Zelli one over with. You want that first? Yeah. How do you feel about the whole Kimbo thing? like this whole movement going on right now. Good. You're fine with it.

Yeah. I mean, if people are going to watch, then people are going to... Did you feel like there was a lot of cheerleading going on? In what, from what camp? The media?

Chear, meaning cheering for Kimbo? Yeah, it was just weird. Routing for his success? Just rooting, like, rooting for this whole thing. I don't know. It was like,

I was very... I wouldn't be surprised. I mean, I get that, I get that... The USC's the big, you know, people are held.

promotions are held to different standards. And what that told me was the standards at which a lot of the media hold Bellator to is actually not that very high. And I don't think it's fair to say, well, if this fight happened in the UFC, they would receive a lot of criticism because the UFC should receive criticism

for putting on a fight like that because they are the top dog. But I just couldn't believe how many people were actually like almost fanboying over this fight. No? It felt weird to me. I don't know.

I don't think it was any more than Tito Bonner, to be honest. I thought I felt a similar... People just want to see a successful MMA promotion other than the UFC, and I think Bellator has proven that they can be successful. Yeah, I don't know if that's where I'm going. I don't remember the Ortiz Bonner... I think it was pretty similar. Well, because it was the same night as UFC 180,

so I was covering that event in Mexico. I wasn't really paying attention to Twitter as much. Sure. And I think I echo what John Pollock said. it's nice. It does remind me of the Strike Force feel where it's different. It sounds different. It looks different. You know, those Belator events back in the day with the tournaments, it was so hard to keep track of. They all blended into each other. They were happening every week. It's, coincidentally, there's another Belator event this week, but it just all kind of felt like noise. What is this? Now it very much feels like Strike Force, especially with Skokker, with Scott Koker leading the way. But I still, you know, I still believe that if you look back at Strike Force, Force back of the day, they never went this route. You know, they always put on legitimate fights. Now, there were a lot of, at times, mismatches and whatnot, but it was always names.

It was not like really turning back the clock. And even if they put a Herschel on the card, he wasn't the main event. I think they could only do this for so long. And then at some point, hopefully I would think that cheerleading will turn. For now, I'm fine with it. Like I said, it is what it is. They are who we thought they were. But I don't think you could do this forever.

And September 19th proves that they're not going to do it, at least for the interim. Let's see what happens the one after that. September 19th is perfect because it's completely different. It's something the UFC would never do. It's a one-night tournament. It's a kickboxing match. I mean, that couldn't be more different. And that's the stuff.

That's what I want to see more out of them. Well, and also a guy like a Phil Davis can help to change that tide and, you know, some of the wrestling talent that they've been signing. You know, this may not be the permanent fix. This may just be the thing that gets them to that. that next level. Yes, but again, did you have a lot of people talking to you about that fight on Friday? Did you

have people who know that you, you know, are a fan or work in MMA to a certain degree? Oh, were they saying, oh, are you watching Kimbo Shamrock? Or did you see Kimbo Shamrock? After the fact. That's a good question. Did I have people? No, not really. I had a ton. I had a ton. And the first question, like I said, was

that I received was, was that fixed? And then I started asking them, just because I was curious about other things on the card, and they didn't really remember anything. So no one was talking about Daniel Strauss. This idea that there's a trickle-down effect doesn't always work that way. You know what I mean?

How many of those people are going to watch this Friday's Bell Tour event? You know what I'm saying? People always find that big event, that freak show that, you know, that can't miss spectacle, especially in the age of social media. Word gets around rather quickly. Like last night, I went on Twitter quickly, and I saw people talking about the U.S. Open.

And I don't watch golf. Jordan Spieth was coming down to the wire, so I go check it out. It's almost like a group text with all your friends. People always find out about this stuff. But I don't know if there's that trickle-down effect. I don't know if a lot of those people are going back to Bellator on Friday or you're going to check out the

next Daniel Strauss fight. Well, you're presenting a nice segue. This one is about a different fight on that card. Did you see how sternly Big John was looking at Patricio Pitbull at the end of the first round, the fight could have easily been stopped. Big John is certainly among the best refs, but I think even he took a few seconds during the

confusion to decide which way to go there. Crazy how in this sport you can essentially go from being a second away from being champion to a knockout loss. That's in the case of Daniel Weishel. How did you feel about the situation as the events unfolded? I will be honest, as I was watching it, I thought the fight was over as well. And when it was clear that it wasn't, it reminded me of the Tim Kennedy-Yole-Romero fight. I think in his mind, Daniel Weichel thought, I'm done.

I won. I'm the champion. and then I think he had to then come to terms with the idea of, holy moly, I got to go back there for a second round, and you go from thinking that you're finally a champion to having to continue fighting, much like the Kenny Romero. The belt wasn't on the line, but it was very reminiscent of that.

You know, who am I to nitpick, the big John McCarthy, but I thought he could have been a little more expressive towards Daniel about what was going on. His back was turned towards him, and he was telling him to get out of the way, and he was almost communicating with Pitbull, but it was very unclear, and the announcers as well,

I noted on Twitter that it reminded me of Patrick Kane's 2010 game-winning goal, Stanley Cup winning goal, when the announcers didn't even realize what was going on. And that's what the case, you know, that's what it seemed like, at least to me, on Friday. So, I don't know, it all kind of felt. It was the right call, without a doubt, when they replayed it.

It was clear that he stepped in, you know, after the bell. but it definitely seemed confusing. And I would say that it messed up Daniel. I mean, I think that it was clear that afterwards he kind of let his guard down and had to get back up for it. And that reminded me of Kennedy Romero. Speaking of that hybrid dynamite show, do you guys think it's a good idea for them?

I assume this is Bellator to do shows like this, or do you think they should just focus on one or the other? I predict it's a huge mistake, and it's the last they ever do. do one thing, Belator, MMA, and stay on it and focus on that. So he thinks that this is not... Why is it a mistake? I don't know. I mean, everyone's entitled to their opinion. Losing focus essentially is his... Why? They have Ortiz versus Liam McGeery.

They have a one-night tournament involving four of their biggest names. And they're going to add other fights as well. They have Paul Daly. Look, Joe Schilling said something that was very telling. he'd even know it was a glory show. So that kind of feels like Belator is really calling the shots here. And that was the case. You got that impression from the press conference.

I think that this is very much a showcase for some of Belator's best fighters in a different kind of setting. In a one-night tournament in kickboxing, daily and chilling as kickboxers is entertaining stuff. Belator has to try and put on the most different kind of show possible. And if that involves a ramp, if that involves big screens, you know, back in the day, Strike Force Elite Exceed, they would put on women's fights. Well, that's not the case. You can't do that these days because the UFC has 135 and 115, in my opinion, the two best women divisions. So what else can you do? You could put on these freak show fights. You could put on one-night tournaments. You could put on hybrid shows. You have to be creative, especially in this day and age, which wasn't the case back then five years ago, with so many UFC on TV.

It's essentially every single day of the week. So I think it's great. And the story of Coker coming back to San Jose is great as well. I really am surprised to hear anyone say this is a, quote, unquote, huge mistake before it actually even happens. The one-night tournament, Phil Davis, King Moe, Emmanuel Newton, Linton Vassel. Who wins the tournament, in your opinion? Hmm, that's a good question. Or even if, you know, let's not predict a winner, but who do you think is the favorite going into this tournament?

Well, I'm very curious to see how they actually match up the fighters. They didn't announce that. Absolutely. Which is interesting. Like, do they go... See, I wouldn't do King Mo Newton 3 right off the bat. Do you agree? I would not do that either.

So do you go... Then I think, like, Vassel, Mo, Davis Newton? Is that... Is Newton too tough for Davis right off the bat? Do you go Moe Vassel? I think that's what you have to do, though. You don't go Davis-Moe, right? Yeah, I guess you have to do that.

You can't go Davis-Moe, right? You can't go Davis Moe and you can't go Newton Mo. Exactly. So I guess the most ideal scenario is Davis Newton, Moe Vassel, and I think Davis

and Moe advance. And I think that's a really interesting fight. And plus you have the whole tournament component. You know, who's banged up from their first fight? Who doesn't like this? What's not to like? I love the one-night tournament.

And also, I really like McGeeery and Ortiz. It was funny when they did that interview with Tito and McGiri. And McGiri was almost too complimentary of Tito. And Tito was like, wait a thing. I got to sell this thing. I got to show that I hate this guy. And then all of a sudden, you know, he said something like he was going to bring the belt back to America. And, of course, McGiri lives here in New York City.

And then he was like, what's up with this guy? And then you could tell that, all right, the respect started to go away. That was pretty funny. I enjoyed that. Okay, 25. the Coca-Cola Pepsi thing? It's a little bit lengthy. Well, let's recap it. You don't have to say it word for word?

Basically, this person is comparing the UFC to Coca-Cola and Bellator to Pepsi, saying that Coca-Cola was dominant over Pepsi, but then Pepsi threatened Coca-Cola in the U.S. while Coca-Cola was focusing on global expansion. And they feel that there's a parallel. here. So the UFC focusing on global expansion and Pepsi

aka Bellator gaining market share in the U.S. I think it's a little early for that. But we're just going back to the Strike Force days. And what that means is a number two in North America, based

in North America, trying to be different. And I think Scott Koker and company will tell you they're not trying to be the UFC. They're not ashamed of putting on a Kimbo- Shamron rock fight. They're trying to do what they can to make up for lost time. They had their roster taken away from them, and they were out of the game for several years. Koker and his team, and now they're trying to be a number two here. And that's really good for everyone. You know,

that's obviously, you know, it's good for the fighters. I think it's good for the UFC. I think it's good for Bellator. It's good for Spike TV. It's good for Fox. Competition historically has always been good for everyone involved. And this discussion is good as well. I think it raises everyone's game. UFC Fight Night Hollywood. Are you surprised that the card didn't get canceled due to several fighters having to pull out because of visa issues?

No, because first off, we don't know how many tickets it sold. But, you know, Machita Romero, to me, was the fight. It didn't make a lot of sense having the Tough Brazil finals, a show that was an airing here in the United States, unless you're watching it on Fight Pass, happened in Florida as well. Machita Romero is at a venue like the hard rock. I haven't looked at the ticket prices, I'll be honest.

I can't imagine that they're astronomical like they would be in Las Vegas. That's a pretty cool fight. That's worth the price of admission, in my opinion. Now, I have a problem with Machita coming back so soon, I'll be honest. And I just feel kind of weird about it two months after the beat down from Luke Rockhold, but there's enough going on there

that, you know, these, you know, canceling a fight, screws up Fox Sports One, it screws up their partners, screws up tickets sales, screws up the venue, screws up the fighters, screws up the fighters, screws up the fighters, and it's not that easy. Like, it's even harder when it's pay-per-view, but it's still pretty damn hard, and pulling the plug and just erasing the whole thing is really a last resort thing. And the main event still intact is good enough. Sorry. Hennon Burrow's new teeth and his new haircut. Did you guys, do you guys, do you guys I'm sorry, think this will make him a more marketable UFC champion in Brazil, the USA, and around the world.

Should he win back the belt from T.J. Dillowsha. New teeth? I saw a new haircut. Oh, yeah, for sure he's got new chompers. What's going on? You didn't see the picture of him on M.MA fighting? I saw Guillermo Cruz tweet something, but I didn't notice... Oh, yeah. Really?

How do they look? Looks great. Nice new smile on Henan Borough right there. Oh, I see. what happened what do you do I don't know obviously he did something yeah got a little work done pearly whites

yeah well here's the big test like Pitbull who will have on the show soon trying to speak English that's a big deal like JDS like Machita Hannah Brown and Aldo are like the only

Brazilian big name fighters left who haven't at least tried to speak English to the public it's time to try right you got to do that That's the thing that makes the world of difference. Yes, not the teeth, not the haircut. I think this will have some effect.

I think it'll be pretty good. I think it will. You got to speak to the people, even if it's broken English. Like, look at Yohanna. Her English isn't great. I mean, it's... Oh, come on. Her English is good.

No, her English is good, but it's not the best English. But honestly, sometimes that makes it even better because they can't really sugarcoat what they're saying. It's actually as, you know, it's as truthful as it can be because they only know how to speak like that. I mean, they're using the most bare-bones vocabulary possible, and that makes for better interviews. That's why I love talking to them. I wouldn't change anything about her. Don't get me wrong.

All I'm saying is the effort goes a long way, I think, for the people to connect with you. So I'd like to see them make that effort. Dana White, The Tooth, and Matt Serra in a crazy reality show. What can you tell us about this new reality show, Delight, starring Nick the Tooth, Matt Sarah, Dana White, and others. Tell us absolutely everything you know, please. I can't wait to see it.

it sure to be wildly entertaining. What do you got? James Glory. Honestly, I know that they are taping in in Atlanta this week, and I know who's shooting it. I know what the plan is, but I can't tell you anything. There you go, James Glory. I was surprised that Dano talked about it on his Periscope chat,

but this is one that I was told off the record, so I can't go there. Get nothing. Nothing. Last one from the website, from a Korean fan, disgruntled. I can't believe there has basically been no coverage on Stung Gun Kim after U.S.

187. This guy's number seven in the Murderers Division, welterweight, won five of his last six fights, 11 wins in the U.S.C, including ones against Eric Silva and Matt Brown. He and Rory sent Nate Diaz down to lightweight. He recently beat Berkman, who beat John Fitch in dominant fashion.

I think Stung Gunn deserves discussion in the top five, in or, I'm sorry, he deserves discussion in a fight against the top five opponent for example with Hendricks or the loser of the title fight. What do you think? Wow. High praise.

How about the returning Tarek Safedin? Kim is 7. Safedine is 8. He's on the comeback trail. I think that makes more sense. I think he has a point. I'd be okay with Stung gun getting someone above him. No, no.

Hendrix's got to fight Woodley, or get the towel shot because he was promised that. Woodley can't fight Kim. he already beat him. Kim can't fight Carlos Condit. He was coming off win because they already fought. Matt Brown, they already fought. I think 7-8 makes a lot of sense.

I mean, let's not forget. A less than a year ago, he was knocked out viciously. Yeah, and in that time, he's done some pretty good work. Where Safedine's been on the shelf. What's wrong with 7 versus 8? I don't love it. He's on a one-fight winning streak. I don't love it.

All right. I'm kind of with him. Okay. I'm rooting for the stun gun here. For what? to get a shot above 7. Fair enough. What the hell?

Since when did Twitter start doing this? Oh gosh. You see that? What, ads? Yeah, like promoted tweets on the side here. Well, I don't know, but I saw this question from our friend, Sean. Will the UFC be keeping a close eye on Andy Lee's outdoor stadium fight we have future Croke Park event.

Now, this is a homer question if I ever saw one. Andy Lee's fight isn't taking place at Croke Park, A. B, I mean, you really think that the UFC needs to pay attention to Andy Lee's boxing match. We've been through the Croke Park thing. Croke Park thing is there's a curfew at play here, and they can only put the event at a certain time, and it doesn't really work out for North American time zones. So I think that's the issue, but I don't think this,

the success of this event hinges on, or the UFC's decision, I should say, to put an event finally in Croke Park hinges on the success of that event. I do think if Connemagrager wins and is successful, it will eventually happen. By the way, I should give a shout out because he went out of his way to let me know about this. Our good pal Shamatkar Sandu sent me an email, an email to today letting me know that the London Underground, did you hear this, is going 24 hours come September, which I think it will make it just the second subway system in the world behind New York's own to be a 24-hour running service. And he was saying that this will help

future London shows if they want to cater to the North American audience because before it was a big problem that people couldn't get home at a, you know, like if the show went past 2 a.m., they wouldn't be able to get home, this could change things. That's perfect. This European thing. I love that. Everything is done for us. Yes.

That was the reason. That was it. Okay. This person with the handle, MMA hour, which is interesting. And the M.A. Fighting logo, yeah. Weird.

If MMA doesn't get legalized in New York, will Wydman v. Rockhold be the headliner of U.S. 191. Oh. In September, I don't see that happening. Chris Wydenman's wife is going to give birth around that time, and I would be very surprised if he fights on September 5th. Speaking of New York, that's a good segue.

The clock is ticking, as we said, but as you probably know by now, the calendar has been extended, and it could go into, well, they're off today, but it could go into Wednesday. A lot of people are zeroing in on Tuesday for the big day. A lot of people are very confident. I still feel like

something's going to happen at the 11th hour Don't be a pessimist. I know it's not a pessimist. I'm trying to be a realist. I'm not trying to jinx the situation because we're so damn close. You know, everyone seems to be confident. Anthony Morelli,

who is a very powerful person in the assembly and a big proponent of this bill is confident. UFC is confident. Everyone seems to be confident, but I'm not trying to put the cart before the horse. All I'm saying is tomorrow could be a very, very, very very, very, very exciting day as far as

MMA New York is concerned. That's it. We're done. We're done. By the way, I want to start a new thing on the show because sometimes I feel like I forget things. It's called the best of the rest. I'm just running down a few things that we may have missed on today's show, okay? How about the gift exchange between Yowana and Jessica Pina?

Very interesting. Maybe the worst stare down in UFC history. What was going on there? I mean, it was just so damn awkward. Like, take the necklace. What happened was they overthought it. It was too much involvement. You got to make it simpler.

Yonah saying, who's next to the camera? Unbelievable. Marek, Taitzumov. Roger Huerta's own. I saw Roger Huerta in Sweden. And he was so high on this man as a 170-pounder. He is really someone that continues to impress me. So remember that name.

Also, speaking of people who are high on a younger fighter, Arnold Allen, remember that name. He made his UFC debut on Saturday. Luke Barnott has been glowing about this man. He has a great backstory as well, someone who we hope to get on the show in the near future. Arnold Allen, the next new prospect, young prospect out of England. What did you think?

Did you watch the show on Saturday? I did. Who'd you score the Lahad Backstrom fight for? I thought for Backstrom. But, I mean, you know, I don't have a problem when a guy who has a 10-8 round, you know, gets a win. You know what I mean? Like, it's one of these closer fights, but, like, he had a more dominant round. So for me, it almost, like, negates that and kind of, but I think, in my opinion, the proper score for that fight is a draw.

But I think that if the guy who had the most dominant round in the fight wins, I'm not too mad about it, to be honest. No, me neither. I think a draw was probably the most fair. I mean, the third round was kind of, it seemed like they were done. But what a fun first two rounds, right? Oh, yeah. I'm surprised they didn't win fight of the night. That type of stuff always, like, is weird.

It goes to hire people higher up on the card most of the time. There's all kinds of reasons why, you know, they may not win that. And again, props to John Gooden and Dan Hardy. I'm really enjoying their commentary. It's a lot of fun when they're doing shows. Are you as down on Bobby Lashley as I am? No. Okay.

I thought he threw that guy around like a sack. A pack of potatoes, he did fine. Something's missing there. It's certainly not the look. It's certainly not the personality. I think he's a charming guy once he gets on camera, and I think he's got a good smile. Like, everything about him, you know, screams Star.

I just think his style is not, you know, all that exciting, but there's ways to overcome that. And I think he's got the rest of the package, for sure. Dana White said last week that it's down to Andrei Arlowski or Steppe Miochich, who gets the title fight against Verdume. It's going to be Arloff. It's no-brainer. Sorry. What do you do with Miotchitz then?

Hoping wins his next fight and there you have another contender. No, I mean, who's the opponent? Is it Kane or is that too risky? That's a risk. That's quite a risk there. Kane's coming back, you know, looking for blood. I wouldn't throw Steepay in there with Kane if I was trying to... There's no right answer. This is really a tough situation then for the guy. I think you give him... You give him somebody who he can beat. Yeah, man. Who? Brown coming up. coming off a loss?

Maybe. Just somebody who, you know, you assume he can beat, even if it's not somebody who, you know, you might consider worthy of a title contender, just because people are not going to remember that that was the one right before he got to fight. People already feel like he deserves it, so why not give him a layup

and then kind of stick him in there after Arlovski and Verdum fight. Hmm. I think it's tough. I think you have to go with Kane if you don't give them the title shot. That's, I think that would be a mistake. That would be a big mistake.

All right. And finally, just a nod to World Series of Fighting. They locked up three of their champions, David Branch, Justin Gachy, Marlon Marais. I think it's interesting. I mean, I think all their champions are very good. The divisions aren't as fleshed out as you'd like in their young. But those champions, Husse-Maripal-Haris at 170, 185, David Branch.

135, Marlon Marais, 145, Lance Palmer, 155, Justin Gachie. It's a solid crop of champions. Belator is back on Friday, as I said, Belator 139, Czech Congo versus Alexander Volkov,

John Alessio versus David Rickles. Pat Curran returns against Emmanuel Sanchez and, of course, Joe Schilling versus Hisaki Cato. And then on Saturday, the UFC is back in Hollywood, Florida. They are not canceling the card.

It's Leonardo Machita versus Joel Romero, other notables on the card, Eddie Gordon, Lorenz Larkin fighting, and how about Steve Bosse, finally getting that UFC debut, that card airing on Fox Sports 1 on Saturday night. That is it for us. We're done. You can hit my music. MMA beat back this week as well.

A familiar face who we may have not seen in quite some time, or may have. May have not? May have. We'll find out. Anyway, that particular person joining the panel Thursday afternoon, that's at 1 p.m. Eastern time. So like I said, to recap, I thought a very entertaining weekend in MMA. You had both opposites of the spectrum on display.

You had the pageantry and the freak show nature of Kimbo-Sleiss versus Kent Shammar. Rock, and then you had very, very high-level MMA in Yuan Yewajchev on Saturday. Something for everyone, as they say, and just another fun weekend in the sport we all love so very much. I want to thank Dan Henderson for stopping by. Great to hear from him. And also interesting to hear his take on what he wants next and who he wants next. No Tim Kennedy, no Michael Bisping. Interesting stuff.

Of course, Bissping back in action in July against Taurus latest. Thank you very much to John Pollock. and his mangled phone, bad phone connection. Great insight from him, as always. Thank you very much to Hapel Cordero. Congratulations to him on all success as of late. Thank you very much to the one and only. Gilbert Melendez.

Told you that throat was going to die by the end of the show. Good luck to him, July 15th. Michael Chandler, thank you very much to him. Congratulations on the win. Joe Schilling. Thank you very much to him. Good luck on Friday. And congratulations to Makwan, Amir Kani,

on his big win Saturday in Berlin. We'll see you next week. Until then, I say, somebody else. I'm Nilai Patel, editor-in-chief The Verge, and Decoder is my show about big ideas and other problems. We've talked a lot about generative AI on the show lately, which is a very big idea that is causing quite a few problems. And one thing we keep hearing about over and over again is that generative AI is causing a lot of problems in schools. There are a lot of people out there, including many of the listeners of this show who email us, who are worried about the obvious problem, students using chat GPT to cheat on assignments.

But when our team went and poked at the story, they found that the issues in education with AI go a lot deeper to the very philosophy of education itself. If this technology becomes more ubiquitous, we'll have courses created by AI, graded by AI, with submissions from students, absolutely generated by AI. So it begs the question, what are we even doing here in higher ed? This episode is presented by Salesforce. support for this show comes from Chase. If you're a fan of women's sports, you're always looking for ways to get closer to the action. And your Chase card can get you exactly that.

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