MMA Fighting - The MMA Hour - Episode 434

Episode Date: May 14, 2018

Ariel Helwani recaps the weekend in MMA (00:06:12), then speaks to Chuck Liddell (00:26:32) in studio, Ryan Bader (01:19:26), Dustin Poirier (01:34:55), Eddie Alvarez (01:49:11), Chael Sonnen (02:15:09), Demian Maia (02:52:29), Raquel Pennington (03:01:18), Israel Adesanya (03:22:39), Mackenzie Dern (03:40:47), Jason Kutz (04:02:32), and NewYorkRic for The MMA [After] Hour featuring Ric's Picks (04:31:05) and the answers to your questions (05:14:14). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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A mixed martial arts hour. in your life on this Monday, May 14, 2018. Hello again, everyone. I'm Mario Hawani back inside our New York City studio. Hope you had a lovely weekend. And of course, a belated, happy Mother's Day to all the lovely mothers out there, including my own, who watches the show each and every week. She does not miss a second, a minute of the program.

All six hours, our most loyal fans. She can beat each and every one of them. you in an MMA trivia contest right now. No preparation needed. So of course, happy Mother's Day to her. And of course, I love her very much. Happy Mother's Day to my own wife, my grandmother, my mother-in-law. All the mothers I know, the most amazing human beings on this planet. And a happy Mother's Day to all the mothers out there. Not just the MMA fan mothers, but all the mothers out there. They deserve praise as well. So I hope you had a nice Mother's Day on Sunday if you celebrate that sort of thing. Of course, as far as combat sports is concerned, what a weekend. What a Saturday night.

Holy smokes. Every second, there was something going on. And it wasn't just like a night where there was a lot of things going on. There was a lot of great things going on. There was a lot of exciting things going on. There were finishes. There were, you know, amazing feats of athleticism. Sometimes there were some upsets. There were some incredible knockouts. Saturday night was one of the best, nights of the year thus far in 2018. It started with some glory action. Then we had Lomachenko Linares, which I attended. And a lot of you made me feel very bad about that, but I don't regret the decision. It was incredible to watch that fight in person at Madison Square Garden. What a crowd, what a fight. Lomachenko now the youngest boxer to win three belts. Knocked down in the middle

of the fight. Lanaris was game, comes back in the 10th and finishes him with a brutal liver shot that you feel it when you see it. What a great fight that was. It was really cool to be there. Michael Conlon was on the card, good friend of one, Connor McGregor and Michaela Mayer, the former U.S. Olympian. So that was a great card. And then we had Beltor 199 and UFC 224 going on somewhat at the same time. 224 ended maybe an hour or so later. But on those two cards, It was just back and forth. Oh, here's Iron Pico with a crazy knockout. And there's Leonardo Machita with a recreation of the UFC 126 knockout, Anderson Silver versus Vitor Belfer.

It's so much going on on Saturday. So much to discuss, so much to digest. It is a fun time to be an MMA fan. And, of course, the train continues to roll along with this weekend's action in Chile. And then we've got Liverpool. Never a dull moment. So let me run down today's lineup and then I want to talk. a bit about what transpired at the very end of the night, like the last thing that we saw,

almost the last thing that we saw at UFC 224. First, here's the lineup today, 505, MMA after hour, you know the drill. We'll answer your questions. Look at your comments. Check in with New York Rick, Rick's picks, all that and more. Check us out, live.com.com slash MMA fighting. At 445, we're going to be joined by Raquel Pennington to talk about what happened on Saturday night. hold that thought. I'll get to Raquel in a second, but very much appreciate the fact that she will be on the program. 425 will talk to McKenzie Dern. You know by now, McKenzie Dern won on Saturday. She defeated Amanda Cooper, and it was controversial because she missed weight by seven pounds. And then she obviously looked much bigger come fight night. And then she ended up winning via pretty dominant submission. she knocked her down

took him out submitted her McKenzie Dern is a fighter she just needs to get the weight cutting thing down we'll talk to her about all that and more at 425 at 405 we'll talk to Israel Adesania the last style bender

who of course is now headlining the tough finale on July 6th against one Brad Tavares we've talked about this fight for the last couple weeks about the psychology behind it the matchmaking all that and more so we'll get his thoughts on it all

at 4.05 at 3405 at 345. Damien Maya will join us. Always great to talk to Damian Maya. We'll talk to him about his fight on Saturday against one Kamarouzman. Of course, you know by now he is the guy who replaced Santiago Ponzanibio in that fight in Chile, the UFC's first event in Santiago, Chile. So it's now Maya versus Usman. We'll talk to Maya who just landed in Chile. I like saying Chile, because I used to say Chile and then a lot of you got mad, so now I say Chile. 305. We're going to be joined by Chal Suna him talked to him about the Bellator Grand Prix, talked to him about fighting Fyodor Emilienenko and all of the things under the sun.

245, we'll talk to Eddie Alvarez, who, as you may have heard, is going to be headlining UFC on Fox 30 on July 28th against one Dustin Porriere. And then at 225 or 230, we'll talk to Porriere. So we'll get both guys back to back because there was a lot of drama surrounding that fight last week. 2.15, we'll talk to Ryan Bader about his big win on Saturday in the main event of Beltoor 199. The last first round fight of the Belator Heavyweight Grand Prix.

We'll talk to Bader about the 15 second knockout. And now having to face Matt Matrione in the second round, he of course is still the light heavyweight champion of Beltoir, but going for that heavyweight title. And then at 125, we'll be joined by Chuck Liddell in studio. The legend, the ice man. One of the most recognizable faces in the history of the sport. We'll be here in studio.

talk about so many things that's going on in his life. He's in the news very much these days. Joining us in the flesh, Chuck Liddell. How exciting is that? One of the greatest in-studio guests that we've ever had on this show. So that's at 125. But first, I want to talk about the end of UFC 224. And in particular, the break in the action between the fourth and fifth round.

So by now you probably know that Amanda Nunes retained her title on Saturday. She is still the reigning defending UFC women's bantamway champion. and she defeated Raquel Pennington via TKO in the fifth round. And you may have heard that there was some controversy en route to that fifth round finish. If you are unfamiliar with what I'm talking about, I want to play the clip, courtesy of our friends over at BT Sport, so that we're all cut up, caught up. We all know exactly what we're talking about here because this has been debated,

and I think it's a fascinating debate. And I think it's a really interesting thing about our sport and our culture. it's something that has come up a lot but never quite like this so I want to play the quick clip and then we're going to come back and break it all down obviously I have some pretty strong feelings

about it all but first here's that moment in between the fourth and fifth round on Saturday night she's done she's done just told her coach she's done

we're going to be smart don't put yourself at risk you see everything She's throwing. You see it on them. You see everything. Come on, girl. I know it hurts. I know her. Let's power through this. Let's power through this. Let's believe. All right? Change your mindset. Change your mindset. Let's just throw everything we got. Throw everything we got. We'll recover later. We'll recover later. Throw everything we got. This is something that people are going to be talking about next week one way or the other. Perhaps Raquel Pennington's nose is broken. She told her corner she was done.

Yep. I want to be done. Those were her exact words. I'm done. perhaps trying to live to fight another day, so to speak, or prevent further damage. But her corner evidently wanted her to continue. And here's round five. Great job there by John Anick. Great job there by Jimmy Smith. Most importantly, great job there by the production crew to capture those pictures and that audio. Again, quote, I'm done.

I want to be done. Not, I think I'm done. I'm not sure if I got anything left. Help me out. I'm done. I want to. be done. Before we talk about this, let's make something very, very, very clear here. Nothing that transpired in that moment speaks negatively, in my opinion, and I do believe, in your opinion,

as well, it should be this case, on the kind of fighter that Raquel Pennington is. In my opinion, Raquel Pennington is the epitome of a fighter, not just in the cage, but out of the cage as well. You may have heard her talk about, I think, on this show, and on other outlets as well. she has recovered from a broken back that she suffered when she was a youngster. She recovered from a very serious ATV injury that she suffered just like six months ago. This fight had to be postponed because of that injury. She talked about those injuries on this show. This isn't a person who has a history of quitting, who has a reputation of quitting.

So let's just throw that out there. I don't think that anything that happened there is an indictment on her and any troll out there that wants to say that she's a quitter, that she couldn't come out in the fifth round that she wanted out. That's absolutely ludicrous. I was very bothered when I saw this transpire on Saturday. I would go as far as to say I was disgusted by it. And I'm happy that we're not doing the show on a Saturday night and that we're doing it on a Monday because I probably would have been a hell of a lot more fired up. I felt the same on Sunday morning, of course, almost two days later. I've calmed down a little bit. But I was very bothered by what happened there for several reasons. Most importantly, Raquel Pennington said that she was done.

She said, I'm done, I want to be done. In my opinion, in that moment, the fight should have been stopped. In my opinion, when you have a fighter who is that proud, who is that tough, who is that confident, heading into the fifth round, says I'm done, you need to listen to her. As her corner, I do believe that your job is obviously there to teach her, to guide her, to set the game plan, to do the right things, to help her to win the fight. It's also your duty, in my opinion, to protect her. And when the going gets tough, and when the going gets tough, and when, And when they're so focused on the fight and when they can't really see above the fray, it is your job from afar to say, let's lift a fight another day. And when she says, I'm done, I want to be done. I believe that is not up for debate. If she would have said, I think I'm done, I don't know if I have anything left in me. Okay, now there's an opening. There was no opening there.

And what really bothered me about that exchange was this. When she said that, in my opinion, and I just want to say, I have polled at least 10 of the best coaches in this sport because I've seen a lot of people say like, oh, you've never been a coach, you've never been a fighter, you don't know what it takes. I have reached out to 10 or so

of the best coaches in this sport. And I've talked to them off the record because I don't think that it needs to be on the record because, let's be honest, peers don't like to criticize their fellow peers. I'm the same way with journalists. I don't like to talk about, you know, what other journalists do negatively.

There are times when you speak up, but for the most part, there's a fraternity and I get it and I respect it. But every single one of those coaches, told me the same thing. Look, the relationship is different. It's not my place. I don't want to weigh in on a relationship between a coach and a fighter. That's their business. However, if I hear I'm done, I want to be done, unequivocally, the fight is over. And to me, the number one thing that should have happened when she uttered those words from her coaches, they needed to respond.

Why? Is everything okay? Are you hurt? What's wrong? If she doesn't really have an answer for that, In my opinion, and again, I've been polling people and talking because I want to have it right. The proper course of action is, all right, give me a minute. Give me 60 seconds. Let's go out there and try to accomplish this. Let's go out there and try to score a take down. We see an opening here. We see an opening there. Let's do X, Y, and Z. If that doesn't happen, or if things get worse, as they did, let's pull the plug. Let's throw in the towel. Let's tell the corner inspector.

Let's notify the official. I'm giving you 60 seconds to turn this thing around. I don't want you to take more damage. That did not happen. What happened? What happened was no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Dig down deep. Give it all you got.

Come on. And then this is the best one. This is the one that really doesn't sit well with me. We'll recover later. What exactly does will recover later mean? We'll recover later. What if she suffers a fatal injury? What if she suffers a broken face?

What if she suffers a broken eye socket? What if she suffers a broken nose? Are you staying up with her at night to drain her nose? Are you getting that surgery to? There's no will recover later. There's X, Y, and Z, let's do this. And if it doesn't happen, okay, I'll listen to you. That's, I don't even think it should have gone to that point.

Let's be very clear. I think when she said that, pull the plug and that's it. but if you're that confident that something could get turned around here, how about that? But to just let her go out there against her will, she says, I'm done, I'm done, and you say no, and we'll recover later, to me is just reckless. It's negligent. Here's your fighter who's entrusting you to be in her corner to protect her and to guide her, and she's telling you I want to be out. She doesn't consult with you when she taps. She doesn't consult with you when the referee steps in, but in this case, she's consulting with you, and you're not letting her get out. And then I hear people

saying, if she really wanted out, if she really wanted out, she should have notified the ref herself. Really? She should have notified the ref herself. This is a proud fighter. Notice she gets up, turns around, puts her back to the camera, and tells her, coach, I want to be done. There's a reason for that. She doesn't want the world to see that. These are incredibly proud human beings. We cannot put ourselves in their shoes. They think unlike any of us. I've said this a million times on the show. They possess DNA that none of us possess. They are incredibly tough, incredibly proud, I agree with T-Sertoras. They're the one percenters. But if you really want to be out and you say that you're out, that should mean something because of how tough they are.

You don't want to be waving off a referee. You feel embarrassed. I get it. But you're relying on your coach to bail you. You're relying on your coach to get you out of that situation. And they didn't get her out of that situation. That's why she stads up and turns around and almost whispers it to her coach. I want to be done. She reiterates it. And they say no. And they don't even offer an They don't offer a path to turn things around. They don't offer her, okay, any kind of negotiation. Give me a minute. Let's do this. If that doesn't happen, I'll come in and stop the fight. But just give me this because we'll regret it forever. None of that. It was no, no, no, no, no. Let's dig down deep. Give it all you got. There's no advice there. There's no actual technical advice

there. What is the point of that? She's not in the position to be getting like, you know, some raw, raw speech at that point. She wants out. To me, It is your job to protect her. Yes, it's your job to get her to, you know, the best place where she can win. But it's also your job to protect her. She wanted out at that point. And guess what? We can say all day long that, hey, what if she hit a Hail Mary?

What would we be saying about her coach then if she hit a Hell Mary? If she actually went out there and won the fight and turned things around. Well, guess what? We know what happened. That did not happen. So our initial reaction when we saw this happen, oh my gosh, she wants out. They don't want to let her out. This is a problem.

Guess what? Those initial feelings were confirmed when not that long after she lost VATCO and took in more damage. And I saw what Tisha Torres wrote. And I'm really, really glad that we could speak to Raquel today. And I want to hear from her. I want to get her side. I don't expect them in this moment to throw anyone under the bus. They are fighters.

They are unlike us. The coaches should be above that. The coaches should see that their fighter wants out. You say to me, what if she has a lot? a history of this? Well, first of all, she doesn't have a history of this because we've never seen this from her. But what if she has a history of this? Well, if our relationship here is that you are always trying to convince your fighter to continue fighting when they want out, well, maybe this isn't the best relationship. Maybe this isn't going on the way that it should be going on. I know that

there are fighters who get nervous who you want to push to the fifth round, who you want to dig down a little deeper and sparring things like that. I know that goes on in gyms all across the world every single day. This is different. This was a person who was beat up, who was broken, and we don't know what else was going on inside of her. She wanted out. You know how hard it was for her to say that? And there is nothing wrong with that. Four rounds, you went up there against the best, the queen of that division, who has been in some of the greatest fighters of all time at 135.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with it. But the problem is, in MMA, there's this taboo culture of you're a quitter. Oh, you can't quit. Oh, Connor McGregor tapped out of UFC 196. He's a quitter. He's a coward. He's scum. Holly, home didn't tap out. She's a warrior. She went out on her shield. No, live to fight another day. It doesn't matter. You lost. It's okay. She's 29 years young. You don't think that she'll be back? She just won four in a row against four very tough opponents. She just retired Misha Tate. You don't think she'll be back. Reinvent yourself. Go back to the drawing board. And like this idea that she'll never get another title shot. Well, what kind of faith do you have in your fighter? What kind of faith do we have in her abilities? It is a taboo thing.

our sport to quit, whether it's in the fight or on the stool. I mean, just look at Roberto Duran in boxing. Now, in boxing, this is way more prevalent. In boxing, for some reason, it's not as taboo. One of the reasons for that, in my opinion, is the pay structure, which I've talked about on this show many times. The pay structure in the UFC, and for the most part, in the entire sport, is antiquated. It's the old pay structure when the Fertitas brought the company and said, look, we need to get motivated fighters. We need to put it on a show. So let's dangle this carrot, show money, let's dangle that carrot, win money. That doesn't work. That does not work anymore.

These fighters are the cream of the crop. They are the best athletes in the world. They deserve to know how much they are making when they step foot in that cage. And I believe that it is an impossible burden to put on their shoulders, their corner shoulders, and the fighters to a degree, that essentially, if you pull the plug on this fight, if you throw in the towel, you are robbing your fighter of 50% of their purse. that has to come into play. I will believe that until my days are done here.

That comes into play because what happens in 10 years when they say, I could have thrown a hell, Mary, you rob me of that money. You rob me of that glory. Well, if you know that you're making X amount, flat, win or lose, it's not quite the same. There's not that same kind of burden. That's not the case in boxing. And I feel like that's why you don't see this as much as boxing.

And when you do see it, well, again, talking about this taboo culture, look at Roberto Duran, no must. That has stuck with him forever. He's had great moments before and since, and that still sticks with him. So everyone looks down on the person who says no mas. This wasn't even the same thing as no mas, but still, I get that. No fighter wants to utter those words. No fighter wants to say I'm done.

She did that. That takes courage. That takes knowing your limits, knowing that there's nothing left. And she turns around and whispers it to her coach. The coach needs to listen. The coach is, there are four of them in that corner, and I'm not looking to put them on blast. They're all very good people. I just think that they failed her in that moment.

They were not doing her a favor by sending her out there. She suffered more injuries, more damage as a result of that decision. They wanted her to continue because they were afraid that in 10 years she would regret it. Well, guess what? This could have been a lot worse, and she would have regretted it way worse. I told you I was done. Now you're doing something that takes courage, throwing in the towel, pulling the plug, saying no mask, saying I'm done, and you live to fight another day.

let's go back to the drawing board and let's get a few more victories and get back in the title picture. This clip has been brought up. I want to play very quickly. This is Mexico City. This is Nate Marquard versus Kelvin Gaslam. This is Trevor Whitman talking to Nate Marquard. Look at how this is done. Look how Whitman handled this situation. This is the blueprint. This is how it should be done. This is how the relationship should be between coach and fighter, in my opinion. And this is what essentially should have happened on Saturday night. Here's the clip. Hey, Doc, I want a doctorate.

The doctor is going to take a look. Look at me, baby. At named Mark Ford. May, look at me? I'm nothing to that. Okay, it's over. It's over. Stop it.

Yeah. I'm glad to stop it. Yeah. He's done. He's done. Please stop it. You're done, bro. It's done.

Trevor Whitman saying it's over. That's a great job by Trevor Lippman. That's a guy who cares about his fighter. Absolutely. Nate said I got nothing left. He said I'm stopping it immediately. He didn't hesitate for a second. I mean, it could have easily been stopped during one of those earlier exchanges. I have nothing left. You know how much courage that takes? You know how hard that is for Nate Marquard to say that? I have nothing left. Whitman asks him. He confirms. He asks him again. And let's stop. You know how much more respect I have for those two? After seeing that, it gives me chill seeing that. I'm done. I want to be done.

listen to him, listen to her, move on. She is too tough for her own good. We know this about fighters. They are a rare breed. Live to fight another day. And if you're going to try to convince her to stay, ask her why she wants to be done. Ask her why she wants out. Ask her what's wrong. And then say maybe, here's a minute. Let's do something. Let's do this and that. Whatever they think is the best path to turning this damn thing around, which by the way, she was down on everyone's scorecard, only one judge gave her the second round. That was it. All the other judges gave it to Amanda Nunes. She needed a finish in that fifth. Was she really getting that finish? She was broken. She was done and there's nothing wrong with that. You just went 20 minutes with the best fighter at 135.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Live to fight another day. Why did you say, no, no, no, no, no, no. Why did you say, we'll recover later? Why did you say, give me everything you got? She was giving you everything she got. And she was done. She said it herself. That took a lot of guts. And so I was so bothered when I saw that. And I see that it's a very, you know, it's a very polarizing decision. I see that it's a very controversial decision.

I see a lot of people weighing in on both sides of the fence. And I understand when you tell me I've never been a coach, I've never been a fighter. But to me, it's pretty darn black and white. If a fighter says I'm done in the biggest fight of their life, listen to the fighter. Because look what happened in the fifth round. she probably was thinking these things earlier. But to get to that point, to actually verbalize it,

to turn around, to not show her mouth moving to the camera, to say it to her coach in the back, takes a lot. And in my opinion, they failed her. And I was really bothered by it. And I'm still bothered by it. You need to listen to your fighter.

You need to have faith in her. You need to tell her, we'll live to fight another day. We won't get more injuries here. You're super tough. I'm super proud of you. And that's it. Move on.

So anyways, it's a fascinating thing. do believe that the pay comes into play subconsciously that's that's that's on their mind there's no doubt about it this is a fighter who had not fought in 18 months who's been through a lot injuries and whatnot and I do believe that this sort of

you know this the stigma that is put upon fighters who want out is is outdated it's antiquated and it needs to be removed this this just bleed you know mindset in our sport if you don't go out on your shield if you're not a warrior no it's hey, to live to fight another day, it's not going your way. And it takes a lot of courage for a coach

to do that when the fighter doesn't want to do it. I get that. You're put in a very tough spot and I think that's truly where the pay thing comes into play. But if the fighter actually tells you, I cannot think of another scenario where a fighter says I'm done and the coach is forced her to go out there and then you saw, you know, what happened in the fifth. I cannot recall seeing that. And I know we probably miss a lot of these interactions. So kudos on the UFC for actually airing it and for going back to it. but what happened in that moment with Mark Ward and Whitman needed to happen in that title fight. And so I hope that Raquel Pennington didn't suffer more injuries

is okay and we'll be able to live to fight another day. But in my opinion, they put her in an impossible position and I do believe it was reckless and it was negligent. And to not even ask her why and to not even offer her any advice, to not even give her any technical advice, a game plan of sorts. It's like, to me, it reminds me of LeBron James twisting his ankle.

Milwaukee wants out. Tyrone Luce says, no, let's call a time out. LeBron, I need you to give me everything you got, as opposed to like calling a play and actually trying to figure this thing out. The time for Rarra speeches was over. She wanted out, let her out. So we'll talk about this throughout the show. I'm curious to hear what our other guests think about it. It's a fascinating thing, and there's so much more to discuss as it pertains to the rest of the week in MMA, Yeir Rodriguez, getting cut out of the blue from the UFC. There's Belator 199, as I said. The rest of 224 was fantastic. It was one of the best cards of the year, in my opinion. Tied for the most finishes in the modern era. Ties the Rockhold Bisping fight in Sydney. So much going on. But we will

put a little pin in all of that because I do believe joining us in a matter of seconds here in studio. One of the greatest ever, the face of MMA for so many years. A living legend, Chuck Liddell is here. Let me take these off because I need to get ready for the Iceman. Joe, you can bring in the ice man. This is so exciting. It's rare that we get someone of this stature in studio, and I can't thank him enough. There he is. The one and only Chuck Liddell is in the house. Chuck, how are you? What a pleasure. What an honor it is to have you here. Thanks so much. So you're somewhere. You know, the guys who there's a rampage. I know I have you somewhere, but they may not have put you out today. I'm sorry. Don't you have one of these coming out? I got one coming out. Is it out yet? Is it out yet? No. No. No. Actually, yeah. I see they just started pre-selling today. Oh, really? Wow. Okay.

Well, it would have been nice to have one on the table. Well, I don't have it. Okay. If I thought about it, I would have brought it. It's okay. Just the fact that you're here. That's not bad, right? Yeah.

Thanks for doing this. I really appreciate it. Thanks for having me. Yeah, this is great. We have a lot to discuss. But first, why are you in New York? Robin Hood Foundation charity event tonight. The biggest, largest poverty,

combat in poverty, charity in New York. Really? And you're affiliated with them? Well, yeah, I'm coming out for the event. It's the biggest event in the year. Okay. And what is it? Just like a black tie thing. They raise a lot of money, that sort of thing. I was told it's not black tie. Okay, maybe not black tie. But it is that kind of thing. Okay, maybe V-neck. Yeah, maybe. I'm going to put a suit on tonight.

Is this a topic that is near and dear to your heart? Well, I mean, it's a great call. Yeah. You know, it's not something that, you know, take white, you know, they'd help them people out. Yeah. Well, that's very cool of you. And cool of you to come in because you didn't come as much as I would like to think that you flew in to be on my show. The fact that you squeezed me in means a lot. So thank you.

I don't know how much you heard of what we were talking about. I was listening out there. You were listening. Okay. Did you watch the fight on Saturday? Yes, I did. I did. I would love to get your thoughts.

I got a fight passed. So I watched it on my phone. Well done. I watched on my phone while I was out, actually. I would love to get your thoughts on this. So I don't need to bring you up to speed. You saw what happened between the fourth and fifth. What did you make of what happened there and the coach's decision not to stop the fight?

I was really surprised. I mean, I like to give people a benefit of doubt. They have a relationship. I don't know how their thing goes. And I'm the type of guy. I don't ever want you to stop my fight. But then again, John, if I came to the corner and I was in, you know, like Nate's condition, I came to corner and said, no, please don't stop it. John would be like, it's over.

Yeah. Yeah, I don't know, man. It just, she's not, you know, literally like a, she's not a slick submission person or like a super power puncher. I mean, she's already lost four rounds. She's not, the chance of her winning that. And then she asks, she's not,

she's known for being tough. Yes. She is tough. Man, she, all heart. And, you know, she asked to be out. I mean, it's not like, there's something wrong. Obviously, there's something wrong. She turned around, like you said, turn around and said,

and please let me out and get me out of here, and he told her to go back and do it. And if your coach tells you go back in, I know I'm not a type of, okay, my coach said, I got to go, I like, screw it, I guess, let's go. Right. And I would have gone back. You know, so it's, it's, I don't think it was the right decision,

but I'm not, not them, I'm not in his shoes, but, and sometimes it's at that moment, you know, you're, it's all those emotions and stuff, but it's, you know, you got to protect. the fighter. You said something that's pretty interesting. Too tough for their own good. Yeah. You said something, you never wanted John to, you know, call off the fight. But if you told John to call off the fight and he didn't, isn't that problematic? Would you have been mad at him after? Why did you listen to me, John?

I know. You would never hurt me complain. I mean, I'm John, you know, me and John been together for a long time. And, you know, if he thought it was a better idea for me to fight, okay, I guess I guess I wasn't thinking right. I wasn't fighting, I fight some more. But it would never happen. that way with John. I mean, John, John was more concerned about me than... Sure. If you told him, I'm done, he's listening to you. He know, if I tell him, if I complain about it, about being hurt, he knows something's wrong. Right.

You know, if I call, he's like, wait, do we need to get the ambulance? Why is Chuck complaining about being hurt? Exactly. So if I came to the corner and said, hey, John, I'm done, he'd be, okay, what happened? He'd be, okay, what happened? What happened? Why are you, why are you done? What, what's going on? What happened? Exactly. The fact that they just dismissed it and said, let's dig down deep and we'll cover later, to me, feels very reckless. Yeah, well, it's how hard is it for a fighter to say that? It's so hard, right? Say I'm done. Yeah, I don't think I could. But yeah, never said that, right?

Yeah, never, no. And I don't think I never want to, but, you know, I'm another one of those guys may be too dumb for our own good sometimes. But, yeah, it's tough. It's tough to watch. I mean, she's taking a beat, it's one of those fights. So I've seen quite a few fights. though over the time. I'm going, man, can someone get him out of there? I mean, he's just taking too much beating.

Just, can his corner, why does his corner stop this? This is, it's over. It's just, he doesn't need to get hit 10 more times.

Don't wait for the ref to stop. But hey, he's done. Man, someone, I jump over, jump in the ring. Get him off of him. Right.

Why do you think there's such this stigma attached to like quitting? Like, well, it's not the bad thing, right? Lift the fight another day. Don't go through all that damage. Well,

now we're going to get in a different thing. I go through the damage. I mean, but that's not the way you got to fight. That's what the corner's for. That's what I'm making the decision.

Yes. Outside of you can't, your mentality, our mentality. If I'm deciding whether or not I'm going to quit or not in a fight, it's, you're in the wrong place.

You're the wrong job, wrong business. I go out there, I'm fighting. You know, I'm doing everything I can to beat you no matter what's going on, how much damage I'm taking,

no matter what I'm doing. I'm still, if I can think to fight, if I can think to tap I can think to get out of where I'm at so I'm still going right now there's times when guys are still going through the motions

and aren't all there I mean I've done I've had street fights back in the day where I dropped the guy he got back up with his hands up and I go to hit him again I'm like wait a minute oh he's not even here so he's all right

you know so there are times when people are like that you know so you know and that's why I think like his corners should stop it Like, he's taking, you know, 10, 20 more shots when he's just not there. He's just not even, he's trying to defend himself out of habit, you know, but he's not even protecting. He doesn't even know what he was doing.

Have you ever been in a situation where you wanted to say I'm done, but you just couldn't bring yourself to saying those words, so you just kept going? It's never crossed my mind. It's never crossed my mind. It's never to tap. I mean, here, don't get me wrong. There's nothing wrong when it's happened. I, well, chokes.

Yeah. Like, I think a choke, if I can think to tap, I can think to try to get out of it. Really? So you, as far as the choke goes. You would advocate no tapping. To choke it. Really? I mean, but there's neck, neck cranks different.

Like, some of those chokes are neck cranks too. Yeah. Arm bars. Break your heart. Yeah. Any, anything, submissions, live to fight another day. You blow that elbow, you might never be the same. Right.

You blow that knee. You got knee surgery. It's not, that's just not, it's part of it. sport you got caught you made a mistake finish it's over but yeah I mean but that thing about thinking to quit it's okay to quit it's not okay to quit never is I never it's never okay for my guy to quit but it is okay for me to stop the fight right hey you're as a as a coach I can stop it anytime I stopped it on a guy one time he was standing there stood there for two rounds banging with this guy just taking a beating just tough kid to me getting destroyed

And if he and I'd wrestle with the other guy like a couple weeks before. If you take him down, you're going to submit him. If you don't take it, you came in the corner, I said, you don't take a shot in the first two minutes of this round. A legit honest shot, I'm going to throw the towel in. He went out there and exchanged punches for two minutes and I threw the towel. Oh, really? That's it. It's over. Get off the mat. Yeah.

You know, I just wasn't going to watch him take that abuse for nobody to lose a fight. Right. I mean, and you're not even trying to win. If you're not trying to win anything, I'm not going to watch it. So that was my job as a coach. And it was to tell my, I was also my, I had a team at a time. So it's to tell them the same thing. I tell you something, you need to do it.

Yes. And it's for your safety. I don't, I'm not going to watch you take a beating like that. Right. For no reason, especially when I know you can take this guy down and submit them. And that's my problem. They didn't even offer any kind of advice. They didn't say.

Well, I had that too. I heard that one too. I'm like, well, okay. you're trying to fire back up. But if you're going to say that, no, no, we're going to fight. But say something. Yes. It's kind of like I think someone mentioned about in Khabib's fight where the corner.

And I like those guys, but then they're telling him, hey, man, you've got to go back to taking him down. I get that, but okay, where's the setup? How is he supposed to do that? Sure. Why don't you tell him to push him back up against the cage and take him down? Because he's taking him down easy against the cage and stop doing an outside shot from outside. Yeah. But they didn't give me any advice.

and you've got to go back to taking him down. Well, give him some advice. But same thing in there. Give her some, okay, if you're going to make her fight still, give her some advice. Give her some things to work on. Hey, if you've got some great way you think she's going to win, give it to her.

Of course. Otherwise. Hey, that overhand rights there. I know it. You can get it. Go in there and do this, this, it's there. It's there. I see it. That's why I'm going to put you back. Go out there and try this at least for me, and then we can stop it or whatever.

Instead, what do we get? Dig down deep. We'll recover later. What? So you're just going out there to get her head smashed in and look what that ended up happening, right? Right. Worse injuries.

And what's that proof for that nothing? Nothing. I mean, you can take a beating? I mean, she's, and don't get me wrong. She is tough, man. No one questions that. And, you know, and sent back out there, and she's, okay. I have to go back out and went out there and fought, man.

That's impressive, but she didn't. Have you ever been in a situation where you corner someone and they said I wanted out and you forced them to go back? back in? Oh, no. No. No. That's not. I mean, at that point, I mean, especially if you're looking at something like that, at that point, they're, you know, it's, I mean, I would let, I would actually let them go back out. If my, my guy asked me to go back out, I, I, I would, no, I would let him, and I disagree, I, I, I would, I probably let them go. As long as they're talking to me, if they're loose, talking to me, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, they're like, I don't know, you know,

I'm not going to, but if they're, man, please, let me, I, I can do something. I got, I got, I got this, what can I do better, let me figure something out, then I would definitely have to let him do it. But that's the situation where you're like, okay, give me a minute, do X, Y, and Z, and then nothing happens, you're getting beat down more, now we're done, right? Yeah, well, and if he gets that,

that's where you make the decision. If he's out there and he's just taking a beating again and guys on top of him hitting him, and he's just trying to hold on and getting punched, you know, it's all, I mean, it's a tough sport. And it is, and it is what we do. And to some extent, you've got to let guys take a chance, because there's some guys, I've seen this guys,

I mean, he got to stop that earlier, but I've seen fights when Frankie Agrior's had a bunch of fights where he looked like he could have been, they could have stopped that fight for a while, and he came back and won it. The difference of those fights, Frankie didn't go back to his corner until his bunch of them done. Oh, no, that's totally different than these fights.

We're talking about something else. She actually verbalized it. Yeah, no, no, at that point too, yeah, and it's not, and it's a decision. Yeah, she was ready to go. Fascinating topic, though, right? Yeah, but it is, you know, and it's something that not everyone has a lot of experience. And it's like you were saying, I think earlier I was listening out there, you're talking about, you know, if it's, it's not, not everybody's that way, but if it's 50-50, it's half your purse.

Yeah. You're thinking, man, it's just going to. Okay, so I always bring this up and people get mad at me when I bring this up. This comes into play, right? I believe that that pay structure system from the days that you were fighting when Lorenzo and Frank took over the sport and they said, okay, we're going to give you X amount to show and then X amount to win. they were trying to motivate you guys to put on a show, right? That's just the way it was in MMA. But that shouldn't be the case anymore, right?

You guys deserve to know what you're getting when you step foot in that cage, in that ring, like boxers do. Well, I don't know. If that's, if, okay, what's the difference? If it's 50 and 50 or 75, I'll take 50 and 50 every day long. What about just 100? Oh, I take the 100. Yeah, that's right. I mean, but if there's the, if the choice is that, if you got, if you're, if it's you and me,

We're both even fighters. Yeah, yeah. And they got 150 grand a pass. 50, 50 and 50, or I'll bet on me all day long. But that's what makes you unique, right? You guys are a little different. You have confidence that none of us have in ourselves. Like, you're on a different level.

Yeah, and, but that... You're always going to bet on yourself. And that's the thing. Like, a lot of guys, you know, I think they asked the fighters, they want them to stop the bonuses and spread the money out across the board of the smaller. at the lower fighters. Yeah.

And I'm going to say, no. Well, of course. No, I want that bonus. I want a chance at that bonus. I want that big money. Well, yeah, some people are making more money off the bonus than they are in the fight itself. Right. So that's their golden goose.

But to me, if you're putting that burden on a corner where they're thinking, God, she's making a hundred to show and a hundred to win, I don't want to be the one to take that hundred away from her. But if she's making a flat fee, that doesn't come into play at all. Right? That's why I feel like you see it more in boxing, because in boxing, there's no show-win structure. It's just one amount of money. You show up, you fight, and you give it your all.

And if you don't got it, live to fight another day. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, let me talk to you about some other things because we don't have a lot of time with you here. This is very exciting. You're very much in the news these days. It's unbelievable. I turn on TMZ and there you are with Oscar Delahoya, Golden...

By the way, were you at the fight on Saturday at MSG? I was looking for you because Oscar was there. I thought maybe you guys were buddies, the Lomachenko fight? I know. You weren't there. Okay. Why did you meet with Oscar? What did you guys talk about?

What could you tell us? Well, we talked to me. Tito seems to want to fight me again. We're talking about partnering up with Golden Boy and doing it that way. It's an option right now, and we're hoping it's one that we're meeting and we're working on it, so we'll see. So did he reach out to you, or did you reach out to him to try to set this up? I was talking about trying to fight him a little bit. We've been going back and forth for a while.

It started, you know, and honestly really just started with us at a charity event just facing off. And I actually told him I was going to post something and say something. And I said, why not? It was all I posted. And then he, like, popped, he, like, lipped off like he does. And so I went back at him. It was kind of fun. Just could make fun of him.

But then he apologized for that. And then since then it's been going back and forth a little bit. And now he says he really wants to fight me. I think he thinks he can win. When you see him at a charity event, are you guys cool or is it a little contentious? I'm always cool. I'm, I'm a mellow with him.

I mean, I don't care anymore. I don't care about him. I mean, I don't like him. Yeah. I don't think he's a good person, but that is what it is. But we're at a charity event. I mean, I can be civil with anybody.

Right. You know, we don't have anything, any animosity really that way. But, yeah, I mean, I'd love to beat him up again. I mean, it's one of those things. It's a one thing I've been asked more since I retired than anything. Can you just beat him up one more time?

People never get tired to see him and he hit him. So when you meet with Oscar, is he interested? Very. Very. Does he want to start his own MMA promotion, or does he just want to do this one-off and help you guys out? You know, when we had the meeting, I didn't know if he was just doing the one-off. I thought he was talking about doing a one-off, and we got an interview with it, and he was like, yeah, I want to start an M.A.

So we haven't had any further talks on that yet, but we will be talking. And to be clear, your conversation was about you competing in this event, not you being a face, a promoter, a suit, so to speak. I think that might be something we might be going down the road. But initially it's you competing. Yes, initially it's me competing. Is Tito the only guy you would fight? He's not the only guy I'd fight. I'm the only guy he'd fight, he'd fight, he says. Interesting. Okay.

Did you see what he said a couple days ago? I'm out of retirement, I'm back? Yeah, to fight me. Yeah. I think he thinks, I think he said, he thinks because Dana, Dana doesn't want to put the fight together that he thinks, Dana thinks he can beat me. That's what, interesting.

I think he's trying to convince himself he can beat me, I think. Does this mean that you are officially out of retirement? You are open for business? You want to fight again? You will fight again. I will fight again, yeah. You will fight again. Yeah.

It makes sense, yeah. Does it hinge on Tito's participation? No, it does not hinge on Tito's participation. Okay. Why are you fighting again? Why have you made this decision? I miss it. I never stopped missing it.

And I kind of hadn't really thought about it much. And then when he brought it up and we got started getting going, and I started training and started doing stuff again, getting ready to try to take this on, it made me go, you know what? Because what if he pulls out? Am I not going to fight? Am I going to do all this and not fight?

Oh, no, we got to have somebody to, back it up and if it doesn't work out with him I'm gonna give him a shot. It'll be somebody else. You know, one of the guys from my past probably, most likely, and we'll see where I'm at. When would you like to fight again? Like what's the time? We're talking about November. November-ish.

Okay. How close are you to actually signing this deal with Golda Boy to fight Tito? Like how far along? You know, I haven't talked to the lawyers in a little bit, so we'll see. There's all, you know, when you get something like that, there's three sets of lawyers working on it, so. Is it fair to say it's like past the preliminary stage? I mean, I don't know what stage it's in.

We'll see. It's a real thing, though. It's a real thing. It's a real thing. They're working on it. Any venues discussed? We haven't talked. We talked about figure out where we can do it.

They're looking into them now. Okay. Safe to say, West Coast? West Coast. Probably California or Vegas. Makes the most sense, right? Considering how popular you guys are there. Dana White said recently, he'd be so happy for you if you're involved with Oscar,

but from a business standpoint, not from a fighting. standpoint. Has he reached out to you to try to convince you not to do this? Not yet. No. I haven't heard from him yet. Are you expecting that? I don't know. I don't know if he will. I think he said his piece in public. Yeah. How did you feel about his peace that he said? I don't know. It's his opinion. It's how he feels. That's okay with me. You're entitled to your opinion and what you think. I mean, everybody's entitled to their opinion. You know, if I can't fight, if I don't feel like I can perform or go out there and perform, I wouldn't.

But I feel like I can still perform, especially enough to beat Tito. So I'll be ready. There's a part of you say, look, you asked me to retire, you gave me a job, you let me go from the job. With all due respect. With all due respect, yeah, leave it alone. Leave me alone. Yeah. You know, you promise something to me for a long time and it's gone.

So it's, but it's, it's not even that. It's like I was, I, I want to fight. Yeah. I miss everything. Everyone always has me, man, this must be a lot better in fighting. I'm like, no, no, I still, that was my favorite thing. My wife asked me, how do you like doing that? I always ask me that all the time.

I still miss it. I miss everything that goes with it, the good and the bad. Everything that goes with it. Everything that good, the bad, I miss all of it. I mean, I'm just hanging out of the gym, going, working out every day. You know, it's, it's, it's, it's fun to me. Was there a process to get to that decision? I'm going to do X, Y, and Z.

I have to go see X, Y, Z doctor, something. I'm going to train for X amount of time, and then I'm going to decide if I'm back. Did you do that? Yes. Okay. There was like, you know, hey man, it sounds, if he's going to talk like that, if he's thinking about, let me see, let me get back in the gym and see what I'm doing,

I wasn't not in the gym. Don't get me wrong. Right. You might get back in the gym. Give me back rolling again. Let me get back, you know. Like a mini training camp. Like a mini training camp, yeah.

You know, getting in and doing stuff at a little higher level than I've been doing, rather than just messing around here and there. And I'd still go, I'd still go work out with, like, I'd help Glover get ready for a couple of fights. I still do stuff here and there, but I just wasn't doing it consistently. So, yeah, I just got back in the gym and started doing some stuff consistently and started feeling okay, yeah, things are moving again. Your longtime coach, John Hackleman, very close friend of yours,

I'm assuming he knows about this. Oh, yeah, he knows. Did you ask his opinion? Or did you just tell him? I know his opinion. What is his opinion? He'd rather I didn't. Okay.

But, you know, but he'd rather I didn't for a long time. I mean, he'd rather. Even before you retired, right? Even before I retired, yeah. I mean, he just, you know, he, he, you know, I think he didn't like it as much as I do. Like when he fought, he felt like he had to and he was doing it for different reasons. I love what I do. I love being out there.

I love fighting. So, you know, as long as I'm still competitive and as long as people still want to watch me, I don't mind fight. Considering he feels that way, will he be coaching you, cornering you in this fight? Yeah, I would be surprised if he didn't. Okay. I mean, it's options there for him. I mean, if he doesn't want to, I will understand.

I mean, you know, we're still family. Yeah. So, you know, I understand if he doesn't want to do it, it's okay. But I think he's going to do okay if you want to, like he did before, if you want to do it. I'm with you. He'd rather be there helping than not. Do you think if you were still UFC employee doing the ambassador stuff,

these feelings would go away a little bit because you had a little more security? You're kind of a part of the sport, but not quite. Or do you think that once you were let go, that's when the feelings really came? Well, no, I don't think it had anything to being let go. I think if I was still with them,

I think I would have been busy doing other things, and it would have been kind of not. But, you know, when I'm out, okay, now what I'm doing for work and doing other things for work, I say, I go, I'm home, and I don't really like this. You know, I like, I like fighting. I like training. I like, you know, it's more fun, you know. Your age right now? 48.

48. Do you have any health concerns? Not, not. I mean, I always am, I'm blessed for how well I feel for being, being 48. Yeah, and all the fights. fighting for about 20 years. Right. Will you go through any tests

just to make sure everything's okay? I have to go through everything anyway. They've got all extra tests for the commission anyway, for being older. Right. Have you done those yet or not yet? I have not done them all,

but we are in process of doing them so before we finish everything. What does it like to actually say in the open to the public that I'm back? Like after all this time to actually be back? Not to say, you know,

I have the it, but you're back. You said you're fighting. What does that feel like? Does it feel like a weight lifted off? Do you feel like you're back or are you only really back once you fight? I think I'm still waiting for something to get signed and be ready to go. Like I still, because I've always been that way.

I don't get truly excited about something until I feel it's inevitable. I mean, until I feel like it's already lined up and ready to go. But, you know, because now there's not a date. Once there's a date and there's something, I want, I need something concrete to really get excited about. but I'm pretty excited. You know how fans are, sometimes we're selfish in the sense that we want to keep memories of you a certain way, right? Like, we want the good days, right? We want the knockouts.

Of course. And we're telling you how to, like, no one's telling me what to do with my life. But for some reason, we feel like we can tell you what to do with your life. And, you know, I respect that. You know, and it doesn't bother me. I mean, there's plenty of people telling me, please state, you know, you're doing this. They're doing that. Please stay.

And yeah, hey, if you don't like it, don't watch. I mean, it's okay. I mean, you know, if you don't like it, don't watch, go watch the old films of me. It's okay. It's okay with me. What do you hear more of? We want to see you back, or we'd rather you didn't. We love you, but we'd rather you didn't.

I get both. You get both. I get both. I mean, it's pretty, pretty, I get a little more people want to, but there's quite a few that, you know, say that, you know, we love you, but we don't want to see. We don't want to see this anymore. Do something else. So, and I, like I said, I don't, I don't harbor any. bad feelings towards those people,

they're just, they're worried. They're concerned. Some of the concern, and some of them, you know, just, they want to remember the guy the way he was. What did your wife say about this, most importantly?

Most importantly, yes. She supports what I decided to do. Okay. Did she try to convince you otherwise? She asked for a long time, if she wanted to do this, are you sure? Like, she doesn't want to put any bad influence on me,

like, or any influence, make me feel like she made my decision for me. She knows I have to make the decision because she doesn't want, same thing, I don't want her to feel like she was, like, she wanted me to blame her. I would never, I would never do that, but she's real careful that I don't,

I don't have any pressure. Right. But we're good either way. So, you know, she's good with me either way. She'll support me as long, either way I go. Did she raise concerns? She's, you know, not any specific ones. I mean, you're always worried about you're getting hurt or getting, you know, that. But it is what it is.

I remember I was at the fight against Rich Franklin, UFC 115. Did you think that night that you would be back at some point? Did you, you know, everyone was saying, this is it, and I know Dana said that, but did you never accept that? You know, no, I, at that point, I, you know, been, you know, I hadn't gone back and seen that fight, but, you know, it's just one of those things I, I couldn't figure out, and I didn't want to change my style, really, and I was being a little stubborn with changing my style a little bit, and I just couldn't take a punch the way

I used to, I mean, he used to be able to hit me in head with a brick, and I wouldn't fit it, it wouldn't hurt me. Although I look back at that fight, I think the headbutts would got me, and that it had nothing to do with getting punched, one partly had something to be there you're going to punch, but I think I want to put my head on them. It was, I don't remember anything after that. But, yeah, it just, you know, it's, this is what it is, you know. So are you saying you will change your style now? Well, I mean, I'm making adjustments, yeah, but it'll still be a lot similar,

but I made a lot of adjustments, and you have to. You know, you've got to make some adjustments to things. You know, and I used to beg you to hit me so I could, so I can land punches. I can exchange with you. Now I'm working on landing those punches without making you. Okay. Without doing the exchanging. But, yeah, I've made a lot of adjustments to what I do, and we'll see.

What is it about Tito that makes you want to fight this guy once again? You know, it's just, it's just, he's easy to get up for. He's easy to get, you know, except my fans and no one gets tired of me hitting him. I mean, I've already beat him twice. and but as far as anybody out there that you could ask people

he would come out he'd come out on top by a large margin if Tito doesn't come to the table if that doesn't come to fruition is there anyone that comes to mine anyone else that you'd love to fight maybe someone who you haven't beaten before

well I did say I wouldn't mind fighting jail I mean for me that's style is an easy fight and he's got a big mouth and likes to run. He's good at selling fights. So you do like that fight?

I do like it, yeah. So there was a report that came out a couple months ago that you were very close on the verge of signing a deal with Bellator. Was that true? No. No, we talked to him, and that just, you know, this kind of went nowhere. Did they ever make you an offer?

No. Oh, really? At that point, they hadn't made me an offer at all. Are you going to talk to them now about this? We're talking to them too. Okay. Wow. So it's not just Delahoya.

Yeah. You're a free agent. Yeah. Is there any chance this happens in the UFC? I don't think so. Okay. I mean, I'm pretty sure Dana's dead set against it. That's right.

Do you have a preference? But you don't know. Sure. I don't know. You never know. They might change his mind. I mean, shoot, they got, what's name, Sam Punk fighting another guy that's own one.

I mean, two O and one guys fighting the UFC. Ever think you'd see that? UFC caliber means something different these days, right? I guess. I guess with that. I mean, I just thought that doesn't, I don't understand that. That doesn't sit well with you. It doesn't say well with me because for me as a fan, I mean, the UFC is the NFL,

the top of the sport. So the top of the food chain and the best fighters in the world. The end all the deal. And I don't mind you bringing in like a Brock Russner to fight a real guy. You know, Brock's a tough man. and he bought him in right up to fight, but he's fighting real UFC caliber guys. But to bring in another guy that's 0-1-1

to fight the guy just so you could have his name value from somewhere else, I mean, that's too much of the circus for me. You mentioned that you watched the fight on your phone, on fight pass. Are you still a big fan? You still watching all the fights? Oh, yeah, I'm still a big fan of fights. I always will be.

How do you feel about the state of the UFC right now? You're so closely linked to that promotion forever, right? How do you feel about it? Do you like it? I mean, I like it. I mean, there's a lot of great fighters out there. I mean, it's a great... I think I was talking to you about this before,

but, like, for me, like, as a fan, you really want one big organization, you know, and all the fighters to be in it. I mean, remember back in the day when it was UFC in Pride, Now it's just, you know, the best guys here and then everyone had to guess who's the best to make a, it's almost like a pound for pound ranking. Right. Randomly picking who would fit in the best in the world.

So for fans, I think it's best to have like one big league. Yeah. You know, big league, and then you get the best guys in the world and all in the one league. Yeah. You know, but I think with that, if you're going to have that, you really need a union, you know, because they need to be, get a higher percentage of what's brought in for all the fighters. Yeah. But, I mean, for fighters, I mean, it'd be more like, you know, like the boxing model.

Yeah. Would be the better, better model for, but that, now, you got to remember for that, that's better for the top end guys. That's better for your main events and for having that home run at the end of your career. I don't know that the boxing model is better across the board for fighters. I remember back in the day, I'm not a big boxing. I don't know a bunch about their money, how they spread it out. But from what I understood, the undercard was making almost nothing.

Still on box, big boxing cards. But you have a promoter who's trying to build your career up a certain way, as opposed to kind of being like, you know what I mean? Yeah, I get it. But because there's that home run, you've got a lot of guys willing to put money into you. If you make to the top of the UFC, there's no guarantee that you're making big money, right? Right. Rquel Pennington is not living off what she made on Saturday night.

Right. Right. Of course not. Neither is a man in the union is probably. Yeah, and they're not retiring on it for sure. Yeah. You are in favor of a union if there's one dominant league. If there's one, they need a seat at the table, they need to get a higher percentage of the earnings.

Right. I think so. That's as a fighter. Now, as a fan, because as a fan, I really want all my, I want all my fighters in the same place. And I want the best guys fighting the best guys. And I don't want, I don't want a guy, two-on-one guys fighting on my cart.

Right. Waste and space on my cart. That's a fight fan. I understand the business side of that too, but it is what it is. You think we'll ever see a union? I think stay the way they are now

where the UFC is the dominant league. They have 95% of the best fighters in the world. You know, I don't know. I haven't done enough homework on that to tell you, but yeah, I don't know if there will be, but something's going to change eventually. You think so.

It would be another. It's like everything else in this border. It will keep evolving. Were you blown away by that number when they sold it $4.025 billion? Oh, man, good for that, man. You know, I always look at it this way. You know, Frank Lorenzo and Dana Haddoncom bought the UFC for $2 million and sunk whatever 40-some-odd million into it

before they started. We wouldn't be here today. Yeah. I wouldn't be sitting there talking to you. I wouldn't be here. No one would care. Yeah, no one would care. I remember back then we were.

trying to, we were begging the Boston Globe to put us in the leisure sections. You know, it was like we were going around trying to get people to do anything, to cover us anywhere, you know, take and get an interview anywhere. Yeah. You know. Remember they had to hire Carmen Elektra to do media and stuff? Right. Yeah, of course, yeah.

Yeah, it was the first real photo shoot. I think I did with her. That was pretty funny. Crazy. The levels that they had to go now, of course. Have you talked to Lorenzo? I haven't talked about a while. In a while, right?

Do you have a preference where you go, where you fight? Like, do you want, like, would you like to talk to Scott Coker and do business with him? Do you have a preference, or do you just want the best deal and that's it? I want the best deal, as far as fighting goes. And for me, yeah, I want the best deal. Fans can see it. That's all. Do you want a one-off, or are you in this for a few?

It would all depend on how my performance is. But in your mind, like, if you win this fight. My mind, to be honest, in my mind, I'd like to be honest, in my mind, I'd like to to like fight two two good warm up fights and I'd like a shot at John John Jones What?

I'm serious I'd like a shot out of Really? We'll see Why John Jones? I just match styles Can I tell you This blows my mind

You know why? Do you remember UFC 172 Glover to sheriff fought John Jones in Baltimore Right? That week I don't know if you remember this But you and John went back and forth

I was working for Fox Sports at the time and they asked me to ask you backstage. I remember he got in trouble for it. Did I get in trouble? Dana came after me. Like, I've never seen him come after me. Oh, yeah. Don't you ever ask Chuck that kind of question, you know?

He was protective of you. Oh, yeah. But, you know, but it's silly, man. I just, I think style, like, I mean, in my prime, I think I would have matched up with him perfect. And right now you still think. But right now, I don't know, but I like to take a shot at it. So that's the pot at the end of the rainbow for you?

But if we get there, we'll see. But again, I'll be evaluating the whole way there, but we'll see. Wow. Is Jay Glazer a part of this? Part of what? Your training camp. Are you working with them? Oh, Jay, I'm always working with Jay down there.

Yeah, unbreakable, right? Out there working out. It's fun, a great place to work out. Yeah. And, yeah, I'm always, we and Jay always mess around. You, Demi Lovato, you get all the superstars in your corner, right? You ever work with her? No, I haven't.

Okay, but I know she hangs out there. I've seen her and I'm working out. Yeah, yeah. Wow, John Jones, you just blew my mind. Wow. What do you make of what he's done over the last couple years in terms of the drug tests and all that? Do you feel like his legacy's been tarnished?

You know, he's made some mistakes to have taken some bad advice, I think. I mean, he was such a great athlete doing so great. I don't know why he would have decided to start doing that stuff. You believe him when he says he didn't know? I mean, I mean, I haven't talked to him.

I haven't done it. I got no information. But like in general, when I hear, hear that stuff. I mean, usually most of the guys that come up with that, those kind of thing are full of me. Yeah. It's not, I mean, yeah, tainted

something, okay. I mean, how much, I mean, what was Tadent Cialis, the first one or something? I mean, how much was actually in there make you pop for a test? I mean, there'd have to be quite a bit in there, wouldn't there? Not just a little bit that was leaked in there.

Is he the greatest light heavyweight of all time, in your opinion? Or are you? But that's, oh, I'm always going to save me. I still think I would have been in my prime. Yeah. So, but, I mean, he dominated the weight, the weight class like no one else has. How do you feel about Cormier? Because I actually feel like Cormier is underappreciated.

I feel like he's one of the greatest. He's great. He's dominated his problem is John Jones. Yeah. I mean, even though there's an asterisk on the second fight. Yeah, but that's, and that's his problems. And that's one thing about John. You know, he was getting big.

I think Cormier could have won. a fight, but John's always explosive. He's got explosive strikes and blows him. When he fought the maller. Yeah, I like that. Spinning Backfist, changed that fight. Yep, yep. Although I still think that fight should have been a draw.

Interesting. That's how you scored it. Yeah. Interesting. But that would, he would retain his title, but I thought it was a draw. When you told Hackleman about this, John Jones thing? No, I haven't talked to him about that. Oh, really? Okay. He'll hear that. Hi, John. Yeah.

So we're going Tito, maybe a couple. So we're a little Tito and then someone else and then John? One or two other ones after that. Wow. If I'm... Who else? Maybe a Vanderle? Yeah, Van der Le. Man, that's a possibility.

Any of those guys. And then it'll be how I feel. I mean, maybe I don't, maybe I go, hey, you know what? I can't. I'm not there. This isn't it. But if I'm feeling good, if I'm still feeling good at that time, I would be, I have to have in the, but I need that in the back of my mind, you know, to train for fights and get

ready and do this. Yeah. And I got to be working for something, a high goal. I can't, if I'm just, oh, I just want to get to this fight and get through and retire again. I'll just want to make a money fight. I can't, I won't train right for it. I need to be trained to try to make, to get to where I can beat John. If I'm doing that, these fights aren't going to be a problem.

I got you. For sure. Yeah. You know the fight game is filled with stories like you in the sense that it's very hard to say goodbye, right? It's like a drug. You want to be there. Ali, I mean, everyone. It's like it's almost more, your story is more common than the other ones who say goodbye.

and never come back. There are a few who said goodbye, like a Lennox Lewis said goodbye and never came back, but those are few and far between. What do you say to the people out there who are worried? You know, I'm so worried about me.

I'm responsible for myself. You have no concerns about what this could do to you in 20, 30 years, health-wise. 20-30 years, I'll be 80. Yeah. Okay. That's a good life.

That's a pretty good life. But, you know, No, I'm not worried. I'm not worried about what it's going to do. I'm taking it. I'm taking some shots. I've done my time, but I'm not worried about it. I feel good.

I feel great about fighting. How are you in the gym? How do you feel? Like, how's your quickness? How's your reaction time? Yeah. You know, it's coming back pretty good, so I'm excited. Have you sparred yet?

A little bit, yeah. Yeah, and how's that? Good. Yeah. Timing is going to take a little while. Sure. Get there where I wanted to be, but I'm, I'm, I've been really. I've been real happy with stuff the way things are working.

And would you fight at 205 or would you just fight? 205. Yeah? Could I ask how much do you weigh? 225. Oh, that's not bad. That's kind of like you're walking around weight. Yeah, that's better.

I mean, I walk around. I diet down. Cut them weight. I mean, I only like to cut like eight or ten pounds of water. And then, I don't know what's wrong with people now is this cutting, having the problem. What do you think about this? I don't understand. Mackenzie Dern had problems.

I don't know if you saw that. That's not even a problem. To me, that's disrespect. I mean, you show up seven pounds over, you didn't even try. You think so? Yeah, you didn't try. I mean, I heard her complain. Oh, I missed the plane.

Remember, though, the first UFC I was in, the UFC 17. Yeah? They flew us in the day of wands. Wow. So they used to fly us in the day of wands. So I'm on my connection. I put my plastics on and I started running. The poor bastard sitting next to me.

Oh, my gosh. It's got to sit down to me sweating in my plastics. So I get off because I landed and went straight to weigh-ins. And they actually, I think they did a thing where I was, I was, was, like close to weight or something, because I was running. But I just, I was late to weigh-ins because of the plane.

Wow. So I got there and I went and made my weight and got on it. But it's, oh, it's also funny because first UFC, right? Yeah. I've made the big time, right? I mean, I'm a wrestler. I've made weight a bunch of times.

We go in there and we go in and it's a bathroom scale. Wow. Like, not like a digital bathroom skill. It is one of those ones that's a little. Oh, no way. I'm like, do I kind of wait for this? I'm like, I got on it, and then I get off, and they go, hey, knowing Hernandez is two pounds over, is that okay?

I looked at him and I go, on that scale? Yeah. I mean, you lean one way or the other, it's like 10 pounds. Can you get them back on here? I'll show him how to be on the other weight. I'm like, yeah, on that scale, he's fine, we're good. I was so funny. I was so shocked back then.

You know, back then of Louisiana, it was a bathroom scale. I'm like, you're serious? You're doing Wands on a bathroom scale? You never miss weight, right? No. Did you ever come super close? It's missing. I was, I was just right close.

I was really good at coming right on. The only time, okay, the only time I had to go back and do more weight was after Ultimate Fighter when I fought Randy. So I get on this, I found out during the Ultimate Fighter that you had a pound allowance. I was like, shit, we get pound allowance. I didn't know that. I never knew it. Well, that's awesome. So I got down to 206, right?

Yeah. So I get up on the scale, and I get up on the scale of the 206 against, you're over him. I don't know we get a patent allowance. He goes, not for title fights. Ah, damn. They didn't tell you that part.

I'll be right back. Yeah. I mean, but I just went in the sauna and I was done, I was done cutting weight and I was done like 15 minutes. So there's like some crazy stories. Ryia Hall had a heart attack, they said, he fainted. Have you ever experienced anything like that? I don't get it.

I've been all my years of wrestling. I actually called Uriya, Abram was talking to him about like, like, what is, I mean, are you guys doing something different nowadays? Yeah. Am I, I, I'm missing a memo here? You guys doing something weird? And there's more resources available to them.

But he's like, no, these guys just don't know how to cut. I mean, it's like, I mean, I've never, I never saw it. I mean, wrestling and fighting. I didn't, until just recently, I mean, it was probably 30 years of competing that I never saw any of this stuff happened. Is it possible that they're trying to go one-way class down to try to be bigger on fight night? and maybe you were fighting closer.

Like, would you fight at $1.85? I've lost, I bought $1.95. Yeah. And I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I won up, it was 19.5 pounds in one day. And a day of weighing. I weighed in. One day. I, I, I waited at, well, I started the night before, but that, but in 24 hours, I lost.

Which fight was that? Pre-UFC? Steve Heath. Okay. Wow. And it was, but it was, they made me weighing at 12 noon, and I fought it. at 8 o'clock that night, 8.30. Same day.

Same day. Geez. Well, I think they were doing that because I think he usually fought at 185s and he was fighting me at 195. And that we're a meeting. But yeah, he wanted me day of winning.

I said, okay. I remember UFC 37 and a half. Yeah. Remember that one? Oh, yeah. Vitor Belford on Fox Sports. Yeah. The first main event to air

on cable television. Now we're, you know, the sport is. It was the main event in air. It was one fight day. It was one fight, yes. It was the best damn sports show, that's right. And now here's Vitor retiring. You see that?

Oh, yeah. What is he going through on this Monday? What are the feelings? You wake up and you're done. It is a weird thing to be done. Like when you've been competing your whole life, and I don't know if it's even sunk in yet that, because it took me a while for that to sink in.

When you lose a fight, when you're expecting, you know, I always felt bad for, like, I can let down my team and my people and my friends and friends. family. I feel bad about that. And they don't know what to say to you. And you can see that in their face and it's like, ah, man, it's all right. You know, everything's cool. But like, actually, when you retire, it's a little, it's a little weird, like, for a while. I mean, I got through it. It took me a little bit, but it's really weird because all of a sudden you've had something to look forward to something you're training for, something, some big goal, guiding goal, your whole life.

since I was a kid, since I was wrestling or football or whatever, I had the next game, the next competition, the next meet. And now all of a sudden you don't. There's nothing you really have to do. I didn't have to, you know, I don't have to do anything. And that's a weird feeling not to have that guide. And then you're kind of, because then you don't have that guiding. Yeah.

You know, that one thing that's always guiding you. And it's your identity, right? That's who you are. You're a fighter. I don't think you lose that identity. As a fighter, like you're still a fighter. Yeah. I mean, I stays with you.

You're always going to be a fighter. Always going to be a martial artist. That's part of me. When were you your happiest? Like, would you remember the moment that you were the happiest as a fighter? You know, I don't think you see me more excited after I knock someone out. Yeah. Is there a particular one that meant more to you than the others?

I don't know than any of them meant more. Okay. I got, but I mean, if I, I'd always say if I put a gun to my head, it was knocking my any out the first time, because it was a vengeance of loss and winning the title finally. And I've been searching for so long. But, yeah, I don't, I don't think, they're all, you know, all those, every knockout was just as exciting.

You watch a lot of them? Do you go back? I don't very often. I think if it comes on TV, I'll watch it, check it out. I mean, what is that like? I show my kids, I show my kids that highlights sometimes. You have young kids, right? Yeah.

I got a four-year-old boy, six-year-old girl. Does coming back... Their ages, especially the younger ones, your comeback, are they coming into play? Or like, you want them to see you fight? I want, you know, I want them to see me trained to fight. I want them to see... And I want to, you know, and I kind of,

but I kind of changed that up a little while ago. I was starting to kind of seeing, like, I was... I don't want to see the guy that just relax it on the couch, not having to do anything, making decisions. Like, I want them to see... the guy that became a champion, the guy that work ethic, the how hard I train, and how I live my life that way. I mean, I do that. I do that all the time anyway, but I also wanted to see how hard I work.

I want them to see Daddy. You still haven't watched the Franklin fight? Oh, I have now, yeah. I hadn't watched it. I didn't watch it for a long time. Okay. Do you think you'll even go back and watch any old fights, whether it's you or Tito if you do this, or is this a, fresh start for you. Are you starting from scratch?

I'll go back and look at a few and try to see some things, but I think it's more moving forward for me. I'm watching my sparring. I'm going to video teams on my sparring and kind of watch some of the stuff I do. Kind of break myself

down like I do other people. So in your mind of prediction, November, you versus Tito 3? Do you think it goes down? I think it goes down now. Wow. And under what banner? You think it's with Oscar?

I'm actually, that's what I'm pulling for right now. That's what you want. You like Oscar's vibe. Yeah, they're very excited about it. I think we can make it work. Wow. That is surreal. Yeah.

U.T. O and Oscar. And we're going to see how the boxing, the boxing way it works for fighting. It would be like that. Yeah. And would it be a hybrid card or just strictly MMA? This M.A. Would it be on pay-per-view?

Yes. Wow. What do you think a card like that draws with you and Tito at the top in this day and age? I'm open a lot, but we'll see. Yeah. You think it breaks the 100, Mark, because that's always been sort of the threshold for non-use and pay-per-views. I think it'll break down 100K for sure. Wow. I think that's for sure.

Do you know how far along they are with Tito? I think they're moving pretty pretty much. Because he just posted on Thursday, on Friday. He's back. He's in. You saw that, right? He wants to do it. It's making everything work between everybody. And he's free from Bellator.

Yes. No ties. Yes, he's free. So, and it's one of those things. It's going to happen. I think it's going to happen. And I think, I think we can do it. I think part of it is Golden Boy knows.

Other promotions I've had a hard time with Paperview, though. That's one of the reasons it excites me is, Golden Boy is not going to get involved. They're not going to be excited by getting involved, unless they think they can make the pay-pavit too. Sure. And, you know, they seem to think they can do it. So, so I'm, that excites me too.

And it always worries me, it always worries me when I, if someone just off the cuff wanted to do their own MMA show and they wanted to do a paper before us and try to get it, I would be a lot more worried. I think a Golden Boy, they know what they're doing. If this was a football field, you know how football works?

Like, what yard line would you be on with a touchdown being signed, sealed and delivered? Are you on the 10-yard line, the one-yard line? How close are we to actually scoring a touchdown here? You know, I'd have to talk to my lawyers to see. I haven't talked to them.

I talked to them. It would be in last week. Okay. And they've had a couple meetings since then. When would you start your training camp? Like the serious training. Oh, the real fight camp probably be October. It would be October.

If it's end of November. Yeah. It'll be October, September, if it's in the beginning. When you turn 49? December. Okay. So you'd be 48. So I'll be 48.

I won't turn 49 yet. Amazing. Well, I can't thank you enough. I know you have to get back and get ready for tonight's event. This has been a huge thrill for me. And thank you for coming and talking. and breaking this news. I mean, you're back. Chuck Liddell's back. I'm back. The Iceman is back. Holy smokes. Congratulations on that. And good luck in getting the deal done. Please keep us posted.

Oh, thank you very much. Yeah, this has been great. Thank you so much, Chuck. All the best to you and your family. Good luck with everything. And hopefully we'll talk to you soon. All right, all the best. There he is. The Iceman Chuck Ladell. What a thrill that was. What an honor. One of the faces of this sport. This sport was built off that man's shoulders and his fists. One of the greatest moments in the history of MMA. He's been a part of a lot of them. And you just heard it right there. Chuck Adele says that he is back. I got to say, I didn't expect him to say that he was back. I thought he would come on and talk a little bit about, you know, I'm interested.

We're talking. Chuck Ledell says he is back. Chuck Ledell is back. Chuck Ledell says that he is going to fight Tito Ortiz in around November. And he's hoping it's with Oscar Della Holbro. and Golden Boy, and then he's hoping to fight John Jones. That's a lot to digest, my friends. Thought we'd come on here and talk about Raquel Pennington and whatnot. Chuck Adele says, I got some other information for you. Thank you very much to Chuck for coming in. What an honor.

What a huge privilege to talk to him face to face. It's been a while since I talked to him face to face. Not an easy man to get in touch with, but I really appreciate his time. I really appreciate him doing that. And of course, I really appreciate him breaking that news on the program. All right, let's move along to our next guest. He had a phenomenal night on Saturday in the last fight of the first round of the Belator

Light Heavyweight, no, excuse me, heavyweight Grand Prix. He is the Belator Light Heavyweight Champion. His name is Ryan Darth Bader, and what a performance for him on Saturday night. He knocks out King Mo Llewal in just 15 seconds. 15 seconds. He now moves on to fight Matt Matrione. Ryan Bader

joins us on the phone. Ryan, are you there? I'm here. What's going on? Hey, Ryan, I don't know if you heard that, but Chuck Liddell's back. I did hear that. That's awesome. You're okay with that? What did you say? October? He's hoping for November against Tito Ortiz, and he's hoping to team up with Oscar

Delahoya to do it. How do you feel about this? As a light heavyweight, this is your division. He could be coming after you. No, I love it. You know, you're one of those guys when I was coming up. I was wrestling. and we'd see him at at ASU and we go wrestle Cal Paul and he'd be there. So he's always, I've always been a huge fan

you know, and he's definitely, you think about MMA, it's him, you know, and so, yeah, I mean, to see him come back and if he wants to fight, and obviously he does and to be able to do that at, what is he, 48, 49 years old? Yeah. You know the fight game, though.

I mean, everyone faces this in the fight game. It's hard to say goodbye. Is there any part of you that says this might not be safe? You know, every fighter I feel like faces this decision, right? When to say when, when to say goodbye. He is 48, right? Yeah, it's up to him, though, you know? Yeah.

He's a competitor. You know, everybody knows that about Chuck Waddell. He's going to go out there, you know, and put it out on the line. And I just kind of feel it's if, you know, if he's missing something and he wants to get in there I feel like, Cheetos is a good opponent to do that with.

They're both a little older and the legends of the sport, you know. But I feel like it's up to him. It's his decision. If you want to go out there and yeah, he's older, he's 40 to 8, you know, and fighting is not a healthy sport, you know, especially when you're older. But, you know, he obviously wants to come back. He wants to do that. He wants to test himself.

He misses that competition. So I feel like it should just be a good. on his shoulders and let him make that decision. Yeah, all right. Well, that's his situation to deal with. Let's talk about your situation. What a performance, what a win, 15 seconds. I always wonder with those fights, you build up to them, you prepare, they're on your

mind for so long, and then it just goes that quickly. It's happy, and I know it's a great moment. You're thrilled, but is a part of you, like, unfulfilled? Like, did you want to get more out of your system? No, well, you know, when I was earlier in my career, like, oh, man, you know, if something happened like that, you kind of want to, you miss going, you know, the three rounds or having a war or something like that. But nowadays, especially in this tournament, where we're going to be fighting pretty quickly again to get in there and get out unscathed without any injuries. It's always a good day.

So I thought that was going to happen. I thought in that fight I was willing to take a little punishment to give some because I felt like I couldn't withstand what he had. And I felt like, like, like, connected with him. I'd be able to put him down. And then obviously there's a first punch. I'll show 15 seconds. Nowadays, I'll take that and come out healthy and ready to go on to the next one. This was a fight that I don't know if a lot of people realized was somewhat of a rematch.

You guys fought over a decade ago in wrestling. Was it personal at all for you? Did you draw on the feelings that you had? Because you don't need me to tell you this, but that was somewhat one-sided back then when you competed, right? In wrestling? Oh, completely, yeah. It's embarrassing. You know,

especially if you get, if you can get pinned, it's like getting caught with a point of trash. He'd be me by 15 points. Yeah. That's the worst thing that can happen, right? But no, I wasn't thinking about that at going on that.

The only thing I took from that is how good of an athlete he was and is, you know, and so, you know, that was so long ago. You know, I've had, you know,

fights with Phil Davis, he beat me in college, too. And it feels like, best forever now. You know, it's cool to compete. And we've been competing against each other almost, you know, 18 years. And the only thing I really took from that is how good he, remembering how good he really is and to be ready for that.

How much do you enjoy this process? You didn't have to cut any weight. Was that just a nice little weight off your shoulders? Yeah, I might get spoiled. You know, so I got to eat the whole time usually on Wednesday and Thursday. kind of coming in and I'm pulling at least 15 pounds out of my body on Thursday and Friday morning. You know, and that's kind of watching my weight and get down Wednesday and then being prepared for the hard cut. You know, I'll probably lose 10 pounds in like 25 minutes or an hour.

Like, you know, I take a little wetter and like taking a bath and then in the morning Friday I get three or four pounds off and so did not have to do that. I was excited to see how I felt in the cage, you know, it was like you're saying, it's too quick there even, you know, go with me that. But I felt great all week, and it just one, you know, that took away one stressor from the whole week. Any chance you're done with light heavyweight since this went so well for you? No, you know, I want to keep, I want to get the heavyweight belt and I want to defend both,

10% and then figure out where I go. So I go out there, in my next two fights, get the heavyweight belt. you know, there might be an intriguing fight at heavyweight that I might want to, you know, want to fight or down at light heavy weight. So you could have passed out there to that kind of there, but, you know, I want to get both belts. I want to defend both belts and kind of see where I go from there. And if that means that they have to fight for an interim belt at light heavyweight, then so be it. You know, it just depends on getting that heavyweight belt and seeing what fight is, makes the most sense. And could you say, like, did you actually feel stronger in there?

Did you feel better? Like, did you feel like that was the best version of you because you didn't have to deal with weight cutting at all? Well, yeah, I've never not cut weight. Wrestling and fighting, it's always, you know, I've always cut weight for the competition. You know, so, yeah, it's got to do something. When you're pulling that water weight out,

and then you're trying to rehydrate it in 24 hours, you know. The biggest thing I think was my legs, you know, because we worked out hard, not hard, but we work out every day, and then a hard weight cut. It takes the legs on the benefit. So I just remember one thing I did notice, my legs felt strong, felt like they were underneath me, and when you cut weight a little bit of your legs, they don't feel weak, but they just feel not normal. And so that was the biggest thing. And I was just, I think nerve-wise, I was a little better, too.

like I said, just taking away that stressor of cutting weight. Fight week was perfect, and then before the fight, it just felt great. So everything came together. You've now won 10 of your last 11. Your last two fights, very dominant finishes. You're undefeated, of course, in Bellator. How much does the way things ended in the UFC fuel you to prove them wrong, to prove that you should have gotten a title shot,

that you should have been considered to fight Daniel Cormier, that you should have gotten at least one shot in the history of your time there, that they misused you, that they maybe didn't appreciate you. How much has that come into play as you continue to, you know, roll through everyone in Bellator here?

You know, at the beginning there was a little bit, but now I'm so far just removed and gone from that. I don't even think about it anymore. I don't know what that. Belator's done nothing but amazing. Great experience every time I go, you know, to the five, five week, everybody that's involved in that promotion.

and they're just great people. And there's a respect matcher that there's both ways there too. And so literally, I'm not even, it doesn't really cross my mind anymore. You know, yeah, I wish I got a chance. You know, all I wanted in the UFC was a chance to prove myself, you know. And so I'm in where I want to be. I'm in the, you know, my mind's right physically and the best have ever been. And so I'm happy where I'm at.

and then coming over here and, you know, fighting for the title, fighting a nasty square garden first fight, and then being able to do a heavyweight Grand Prix. You know, a lot of people are talking about Bellator, and I think we're definitely moving in the right direction, and it's going to be big. So you're going from finding a guy who has since announced that he's going down to 185 to a true blue heavyweight,

a guy who has been heavyweight his entire career. any size concerns there? Well, yeah, I mean, this is, I'm entering this heavy tournament right now. You know, uh,

Mo is probably the smallest guy that would fall. You know, so, uh, we kept everything the same. I'll put on maybe a little size, but I want to keep what makes me,

what makes me win, makes me good, my cardio, being fast, and each one's a big guy, and he's fast. And he turns a friend of mine, um,

you know, he's a great fighter. He moves well. Uh, his striking is, some of the best in the headweight division. I got to go in there and do what I do. You know, his weaknesses

or what I do best? And so I look to exploit those. But yeah, I'm definitely stepping up in the heavyweight division with him for sure. How much do you expect to weigh in that fight? I'm pretty much going to be around 230 for this whole tournament. I went in at 325. I was just me getting up in the morning, just going to the scale and

weighing in. And my boyfriend. body's kind of used to fight leak, basically. You know, it'll start shedding, you know, three or four pounds without doing anything, just kind of preparing because whether it's routine, whatever, it knows, you know, usually in tight and weight. I don't know, 230, 235, but like I said, I want to, wait a, I don't want to go in there and fight at a weight that I'm not used to fighting that. I want to be in there.

2.30, I'm used to sparring. I'm used to fighting that. I'm fast. My cardio's on point. And, you know, I don't want to go wait for weight with a guy like Mitriot. He's taller. He's bigger. So going there, like I said, do what I do best.

Considering the other three fighters left in the tournament, do you consider yourself the favorite? I consider myself the favorite right at the beginning. You know, I believe in myself. And I can and I am going to win this tournament, you know, at the very beginning. And so for me, it's, you know, it's fun to look at, you know, take a, bridge-eye view and look at this bracket and potential matchups and all that, but, you know, you just got to keep your head down. You know, I had no.

That was my focus. I thought it was one of the tougher matchups for me in this tournament and got that job done. Now I move on. I'm fighting a true heavyweight. And, you know, and then go out there, win that fight, and you're in the finals, and you're fighting against, you know,

either fatal or a challenge. And that fight, for me, is a toss-up. I don't know who's going to win that fight. So it's kind of it's I approach it like a you know you go into a national to the wrestling tournament You look at it. It's kind of daunting we just go out there and handle the business one match of time All of a sudden you're in the semize so um that's kind of adjunct up in and uh um i know that's in this thing and so as i was that right from the beginning you before we knew any names i was we go out there and win it do you have any idea when that fight happens have they told you a time frame

I've heard September or October and I believe they're trying to do both semis on the same night is what I've you know hearsay what I've heard

I like that I think that makes a lot of sense right? I definitely make sense you know you have both the semifinals you match them up get them in the cage afterwards

and then I heard potentially in January for the finals one last thing before I let you go Ryan I know you were busy on Saturday but maybe you have your finger on the pulse. Have you seen all the controversies surrounding what happened in the main event of the UFC fight between Raquel Pennington and her corner?

No, and for me. Put me in and what happened. Okay, well, it really, it kind of needs to be seen, but I'm just trying to get the pulse of, you know, obviously people who I respect to actually compete in the sport. Fourth and fifth round, she's losing all four rounds. She turns to her corner before the fifth round and says, I'm done. I want to be done. And her corner says, no, no, no, no, let's go back out there. Give me all you got. We'll recover later. Doesn't offer any sort of technical advice. Doesn't offer a sort of negotiation. Hey, give me a minute. Let's try to do this. Accomplish this. And then if not, I'll throw in the towel. It just says, no, I want you to go back out there. I have a problem with this.

This bothered me. I felt weird about it. I feel like they failed her as a corner. And I just wanted to know what you thought about that. If you've ever been in a situation like that, you've ever been in a situation like that or if you're watching that and you see a fighter say I'm done because I know all heart it is for a fighter to actually verbalize that and say it and the corner essentially says no we want you to go back out there is that problematic yeah uh I'm kind of I can't see both sides with that I've cornered um a lot and I've quartered two guys and uh one guy in particular he was just tired and he's like I'm done you know he's my new year I'm like hey you're good you know let's go back out there um there's a fine line there though and I think that's

it needs to be that relationship where you know those corners know that fighter and that fighter knows the corners where if I'm in a fight and if I tell my corners I'm done they know I'm done you know but at the same time it's fine mine when yeah you're getting beat up there's no it doesn't look like you're going to win

and you're going to be you know giving some positive impression I don't know what happened because I didn't watch it yeah you got this you got one round just get out there and you know it want them to feel like they, you know, fail themselves also. Because you look back after a fight, you're like, oh, I just tired. I should have went out there.

So it's a fine line there, and I can see, you know, being a corner, I can see take just go out there and get this done. We've got one round up. But I did not see that whole situation, so I don't know how bad if she was getting beat up or anything like that, you know, but for me, if I tell my corner, I'm done, they know that physically or whatever it is, I'm done and get me out of there. You know, so it's a relationship with your corner. And I don't know if she has that.

You know, I've had a corner been where I'm not really close with, and they just kind of, you know, I need an extra guy. But, yeah, so it's a phone line. And I don't know that whole situation, though. Fair enough. Well, I appreciate you weighing in, of course. Appreciate you coming on on this Monday. Congratulations on the Great Victory.

I would imagine one of the most memorable of your career thus far, and what a career it has been defeating someone like Kingmo in just 15 seconds is amazing. So enjoy it. Congratulations. And then, of course, good luck in the, next round against Matt Mitrione. Thank you, Ryan. Yeah, thank you. Appreciate it. All right, there he is. Ryan, Darth Bader, moving on in the Beltor Heavyweight Grand Prix.

Great stuff from him on Saturday. Now, let's move along to another person I'd love to get his take on what happened Saturday, in addition to all the comings and goings in his life, because he was very much in the news this past week. Let's say hello now to Dustin Porey, who is joining us via the magic of Skype. There he is. Dustin, how are you? Good. What's going on, bro? Okay, Dustin. So you are another one of those guys. Epitome of a fighter, one of the toughest human beings that I've ever come across in my life. You possess DNA that I would never even dream of possessing. Did you watch what happened on Saturday? And if so, I'd love to get your take on that exchange between the fourth and fifth round. Yeah, I watched it. I'm kind of on the fence about it. They know her better than I know her. I just heard the guy before me talking to you saying that his coaches know him. If he says, you know, I need out, something's wrong. Like, if I say that to Mike Brown and Daya and Tiago Alves, they know my legs broken, my hands.

My mind, something's bad. And, you know, just the mindset of a fighter, you don't, I don't know, man, it's a tough position to be in as a coach. I don't know. I don't know what I would have done. If, you know, I just cornered some guys this last weekend. And I don't know if they would have came up to me and said, I can't fight. fight anymore, I probably would have threw in the towel, you know? Right.

If your mind's not in it, you're going to go out there and get injured, for real. Right, which is what happened to her, right? I mean, she appeared to get even more injured. So I felt a little weird watching that. Just thinking about saying the words, I want out, I'm done, you know, you've lost. So you don't want to, she's already taking a little bit of damage. But maybe they know her, maybe, you know, she, I don't know. Maybe she in practice does the same thing.

don't want to finish this round and she goes, I don't know. It's different for everybody. But if I say it, something bad happened. Have you ever been on the verge of saying something like that? But it just, because I know how difficult that is for a fighter to actually say. No, I've never really during a fight had any, you know, broken noses and cracked hands and stuff like that. But I've never had any serious injury that would make me say that. Okay. You know, like, yeah, yeah. I know guys who like tear quads or tear an ACL in the fight and they you know, when your body is not responding, you know, you can only do more damage at that point. That's when the corner should step in.

I think there's a lot of pressure on you guys because I think that there's this stigma attached to saying something like that, which I think is ludicrous. The fact that you even step in there as your career and fight on a daily basis, on a nightly basis is courageous in its own right. So I feel like men and women are scared to say that because they don't want to feel embarrassed or be ashamed. Do you think less of a fighter who says something like that? man you know like heart is something you can't teach if a fighter's breaking in there breaking in fights you know i don't know you know every time a fight gets rough they're going to break that's what fighting is it's going to be uncomfortable it's going to be rough you're going to bleed you're going to have to dig down that's what fighting is to me you know i

expect that feeling i expect those things to happen when i fight like this last fight with gaethe i expected there was going to be some ups and downs in the rounds and i would have to just persevere. That's what fighting is. So me, if I say something like that, something is drastically wrong with my body. So let's talk about you now because the UFC actually just officially announced it. It's you versus Eddie

Alvarez, July 28th in Calgary, UFC on Fox 30. What a roller coaster it has been to get to the second fight. Even dating back to last year, which it's amazing, yesterday was the one-year anniversary of that fight. But let's fast forward to very recently. You were clear that you would be open. to it. You even said, I'm giving you a deadline. If you don't accept, I'm out. And then he accepts. But then your team told myself and other media, we're not in. And then they said, all right,

we're in. What happened in those 2448 hours where you put out the deadline? He accepts and you say you're not in. And then you're eventually in. What happened there? Could you explain it to us? Did we lose you? Someone may have called them. Oh, there he is. Oh, I think he just came back. Dustin, are you there? What's going on? Oh yeah, there you are. Did you hear my question? I heard the beginning of it.

What was it? It was essentially, I recall you tweeting there's a deadline. I recall you saying that you've accepted the fight, but only to a certain point. Then the deadline obviously passed. He accepted. And then your management said, we're not in. And then eventually you were in. So could you tell us what happened there?

What happened with the deadline? And then what happened with him accepting? And then you're out and then you eventually back in. How did this fight actually ultimately get made? The whole thing happened was we've been trying to make this fight for a year now. You know, he fought since, since me and him fought. I fought twice since then. And then like I said, after this last fight with Gaichi, I'm not in the business of getting even with these guys or chasing rematches.

I'm trying to be a world champion. That's my goal. So I was looking past it. I thought we were going to move forward and try to get the next, you know, fight that was going to get me to the title fight. And then obviously all the guys are tied up ahead of me. And the fight kind of came together again. The UFC wanted it. And, you know, so they offered me the fight.

I said yes. Yeah. Then they offered Eddie the fight. And then there were some contract negotiations that was going to, you know, I don't know what was going on with him exactly. But I wasn't, I had a bunch of stuff. Me and my wife had plans. UFC was bringing me to Asia.

I had a vacation plan for my wife. Besides the Asia trip, the Asia trip was going to be business. I mean her were going to go to the Bahamas or something. And then, you know, I wanted to spend summer with my dad. daughter here in Louisiana and just you know I've been gone for a whole camp so I needed to know if I was going to if I said yes I wasn't going to wait like three four weeks in limbo with all my plans and commitments that I already said yes to I you know that I'm living my life too you know I'm not waiting on Edward Alvarez to be a man and take the fight but so I told him I said you have a week if y'all can

get him to say yes in a week I'll take the fight just like I said yes all the other times they come back close to the end of the week saying hey Dana's actually going out there Sunday because I gave him until Friday deadline They said Dana's going out on Sunday will you wait till Monday to find out I said all right if y'all have to go talk to him in person no problem Let's get this fight done so that so Monday comes around there's still no answer so I said okay I'm out then you know Like I'm not living in limbo or waiting for him, you know and Then we had some more discussions and and and we came out we came to an agreement and now the fight's on again okay are you happy about this

yeah of course i'm gonna beat eddie and i'm a fight for a world title i've said it over and over again you know if it wasn't eddie it would have been somebody else but this is the fight before the fight have you been told if you win this fight you are getting a title shot no i told them and what did they say to that you'll see i'm gonna get a title shot after i'll beat it Okay. But is there any part of you that's disappointing? Because you also said you wanted a title shot after beating Gaichi, which I don't think a lot of people would have batted an eye out. So are you disappointed? You have to fight one more time? No, man, that's what I do for a living. I'm a prize fighter. But I'm not one of those guys who's going to sit for two years or sit for a year and a half and wait for their turn. You know, this is fighting. I believe in myself. I believe I'm better than these guys. If I have to fight twice as many times as these guys do, I'll just keep proving it. I'm sure you surveyed the landscape.

When you heard that he was in, did you use that? And I don't begrudge you. I think it's a very smart thing to do. Did you use that as an opportunity to sweet in the pot? Was that the delay? Of course. And did they? This is big business area, Juan.

I love it. That's very smart of you. You played them perfectly. Hey, I said yes, a bunch of times. And then I even put a deadline on it, and we couldn't get it done in the time. It wasn't a smoke screen. It wasn't a, you know, I wasn't blowing smoke. that line I drew was serious

and Edward crossed it again so I was out of the fight. And so they sweetened the pot? Yeah. What'd you get? Could you tell us? Did you get a new contract? What'd you get?

Yeah, we redid a couple of things in my contract and a couple of other things. But hey, I'm a prize fighter and the prize has to be right. I'm coming to Canada. I hope you're going to be there. That's amazing. I love that.

And are you going to see him before the fight? Is there like some media plan before then? Yeah, I actually got an email last night they're trying to book flights i think we're coming up there the 29th we might be there two or three days for a press tour on sale ticket uh something you know they do it with every main event yeah and how do you feel about like is there the true animosity there like do you think it will be hard to be around him man i've been doing this long enough uh as long as he doesn't cross the line or anything like that will be we get to go okay that tweet that you sent out um he did the video about usada

and you he had the 25x on it and you said is that how many times you turned down the fight Do you feel like you're getting a guy, you know, to agree to fight you somewhat begrudgingly? Like, he didn't want to do this, but, you know, for some... Go ahead. He's a dangerous guy. He's a dangerous guy, you know, when the odds are against him. When you hurt Eddie, that's when he's most dangerous. So now we have a guy cornered, you know?

We've been chasing him. The UFC's been chasing him for this rematch, and we got him cornered. I believe he's fighting out his contract. He didn't come to an agreement with the UFC. He didn't want this fight. So we got a man doing two. things he doesn't want to do. I'm sure he wanted some security. He wanted a new contract. He wanted the numbers he was asking for. So now he's betting on himself and he's fighting his contract

out. And he's fighting somebody he doesn't really want to fight. So he has a point to prove. This might be the most dangerous Eddie Alvarez we've ever seen. And I know that and expect that. So I'm excited about it. You know? Wow. Okay. Way to break it down there. That's amazing. By the way, how are you feeling? Because it was exactly a month ago that you fought, Gachid, the photos of your leg, all blue your eye looks better from this. vantage point. How are you feeling physically? I'm feeling pretty good. My right leg isn't hurting as much anymore. I have full range of motion, but a lot of physical therapy since the fight. And, you know, it still feels a little

fatigued. Like if I try to sprint out or wrestle really hard, I feel a little fatigued in my leg, but it's getting better every week. You know, I'm good to go. I've been training training a bunch. I just actually got done training. And the eye is okay? Yeah, the eye's good. It was just a few stitches. I think had a slight scratch. It was blurry for a few days, and we're all cleared up. We're good to go, man.

Is this happening a little sooner than you would have liked? Would you have liked an extra month or so to fully recover? You know, the fight is still, what is it, 11 weeks away? I still have plenty of time. I'm in decent shape. When I came back home, I had a lot of guys getting ready to fight this last weekend. So the last three weeks, I've been kind of drilling with them and going over fight prep stuff with them. and I would have liked to have the summer here with my family in Louisiana,

but like I said, man, I'm a fighter. This is what I do. I'm going back to camp Friday. Would you, oh, Florida, you mean? Yeah, I'm leaving Friday morning. Okay. Will you watch the first fight a lot in preparation for this one? I haven't watched it one time since the fight.

We drove back from Dallas, Texas to Louisiana. I watched it at my in-laws house because they had a, recorded and that was the last time I've seen it. I've seen it one time and it was the day after the fight. Wow. And you don't plan on watching it again? No, I'm not going to watch it. How come? I don't know, man. I just have, I used to watch a lot of footage and stuff like that. I'll leave that up to my coaches and just put my trust in them, but I don't overwhelm myself with with those things anymore. You know, I know how we felt in there. I know how you felt. Trust me, this is going to be the same Edward Alvarez again. It's going to be an improved Dustin Poirier, a smarter, more, more

mature, more patient. And, yeah, I just don't overwhelm myself or get tied up and all that. I'll watch fights and see things he does, but I'm not going to go back and watch that fight. I'm asking off the top of my head here, is this the first, and I could be wrong, is this the first rematch of your career? It's the first time, yeah. Yeah.

How do you feel about that? Do you like having that knowledge? Do you like having that luxury of fighting a guy already? It's, yeah, it's kind of, I know how we felt. in there. I know how we matched up the first time. And like I said, I don't think he's going to change a whole lot. I feel like I'm still improving and changing. And I felt like I was winning the fight. All right, man, I can't wait for this. July 28th, Calgary, Alberta, Canada. Dana White has been promising the fans in Calgary six years. He's been saying he's going to repay them for UFC 149.

I feel like they're getting repaid with this one. I mean, I would be shocked if this one does not live up to the hype. He's actually on next. Is there anything you'd like to say to Eddie? No, man, just show up. Oh, and Eddie's talking shit on the internet. I saw him say something like he put out facts that he have only had two contracts with my name on it. He's never turned down the fight. He's not lying. He's only had two contracts with my name on it because you have to accept the fight to get the UFC to send you a contract.

They don't just send contracts. You know, they've offered the fight to him a lot of times, Ariel, a lot of times, more than three or four times. Let's just put it that way. I've said yes, a bunch of times. He would have, hey, you know what? Eddie would have fought for the world title when Tony pulled out because we were supposed to rematch on that card. I said yes, he said no.

You know, he was ranked higher than me. He would have fought for a world title. Could I bring him in here to rebut this? Are you okay with that? Who, Eddie? Yeah. I don't care. I have nothing to hide, man.

No, to what you just said, let's clear it up if we can. Are you okay with that? I don't want to put you on the spot. No, no. I mean, I'm telling the truth. Okay, Eddie, are you there? Yeah, yeah, I'm here. Eddie, you're talking to Dustin Porre. Of course, I know you've been on for the last minute or so.

Is there anything you want to say to what he just said? No, no. I've stated the facts as far as like the offers and things like that. Look, when you're top three or top two or wherever we're at, I'm giving offers for a lot of fights. This fight in particular didn't interest me. I'm not trying to be like a mean guy or a bad guy. I was telling the truth when I felt like I've been in the cage with a ton of people in the cage, out the cage, whatever.

I can feel what I feel inside there. And then I know what I see inside the cage. When a guy's on the stool, I can read in his eyes. I can see what went on. When I fought Dustin, Dustin did well. and a lot of guys do well against me. He pounds his chest and says he did well. A lot of guys do well.

A lot of guys was winning against me. If I can count on my hands who was winning against me, there's a lot of you guys out there, which you didn't win, you know? And then when I came back, I felt his spirit break. And this is an honest assessment. I'm not trying to be mean or start a fight or anything like that. This is how I feel inside the cage. And a part of me feels like he knows this.

And that's the only reason he's begging for a rematch. Because when you feel like you beat someone, you don't care to fight them again. You know what I mean? Why would you care so much to fight a guy that you sincerely yell to the whole masses I beat? It just didn't make any sense to me. So I know what I know. I know what I felt. And it's going to happen again.

It's sincerely going to happen again. And it has nothing to do with Dustin. It has more to do with my contract issue than I'm rolling the dice on myself and I'm betting on myself. And it feels lovely. That's all I got to say. Anything you want to say about that before we say goodbye?

I respect the guy for betting on himself and believe it in himself. We're going to go out there and see who's better. But, you know, I felt like I was winning the fight. You know, I grew up watching Eddie Alvarez's fight. Like I said, in Japan, whenever HDNet was around, I was a huge fan. They used to push him well.

I was a big fan of the guy. But just things that were said after the fight, the shot that ended the fight, Eddie and Ariel, I've been stopped, obviously, a couple of times in fighting. I've never had any symptoms of concussion or anything. That knee that Eddie hit me with was the worst symptoms of a concussion I've ever had in my life. Like that was an illegal shot that got me good, man. You know, and I'm a warrior too. I'll go out on my shield. like that was a bad shot and and in the in the middle of the fight i thought it was an accident

but there's just the stuff that the guy said and the stuff he said online oh you're off your stool now how do you say you know that's where i lost respect for the guy i know he's still a very dangerous fighter and his backs against the wall in this fight so he's going to be more dangerous than ever but how do you say that that type of stuff you know so that that makes me feel like maybe the shot was a veteran move maybe he was just in a scramble and saw an opportunity maybe thought he would get away with and landed a shot, you know. But it's just foul. It's just a foul situation.

And where I'm from, when you owe a man, you have to pay him. So Eddie Alvarez will be paid back in full July 28th. Simple and playing. Okay. Okay. You better fucking bring it. I can't wait. Ariel, I love you, Eric.

I love how you started shit up. I'm looking forward to everything, man. I can't wait. I want to look. Look, I want you to fight me, man. I want all these guys to fight me. You know what happens when you start fucking me up. You know more than anyone that when you start fucking me up, what happens?

So I'm looking forward to it. What was that, Dustin? When you fuck Eddie up, he knees you in the head illegally. Look, it ain't up to me to call the rules, okay? I'm a dog in there. I'm fighting like I know. not a fight. It's up to you to you to follow.

Everybody who fights me knows I'm not a dirty fighter. You caught me with a shot. All good. You got me. The shit ain't going to happen again. And I want you to fight me, man. I dare you to fight me. Everybody who's coming in with that kind of attitude and fought me like that,

I want you to come at me, man. I really do. I'm looking forward to it. This will be good for Calgary. It'll be good for the both of us. Yeah, for sure. and I'm glad we got five rounds to do it. We'll see who breaks, for real this time, yeah?

I'll be off my stall every single round. Every single round I'll be off my school, I promise you. I really appreciate this, Dustin. Thank you very much. Thanks for agreeing to the fight on behalf of all fans everywhere, and especially the Canadian fans. This is going to be great. Best of luck in training, of course,

and of course best of luck on July 28th. Thanks for doing this, Dustin. Yeah, and thanks for starting the pie. It helps ticket sales, I think. I think they say that, right? Yeah, but fights like this, hey, tickets are going to get sold. I promise you. Yes, sir, yes, sir.

Absolutely. Thanks for being a good sport. I appreciate it. Yeah, man, no problem. All right, there he is. Thank you, Dustin, Porier. That was tremendous stuff. I've got goosebumps.

Now, let's talk to Eddie Alvarez. There's a lot to digest here, Eddie, because you said it yourself just there. You said you're betting on yourself. A week ago or so, you told me that you're not fighting until you get a new contract. So what changed? Nothing changed. I'm still speaking with the UFC and whatnot, but, you know, I'm hearing, I hear a lot of rumors. I don't know.

Originally Dustin's people weren't going to take the fight. I don't know if they believed, like, oh, Eddie got more money and Eddie signed a new great deal and new contract. And I just kind of wanted to clear the air that, you know, I'm kind of, you know, I'm a fighter who's bound to batting on myself. There wasn't a new contract signed, and whoever, you know, whether it's his camp or whoever camp out there kind of putting that out there, that's bull crap. I'm not this new guy coming in who signed this new giant great deal on this. That's not what happened. I sat down with Dana and the UFC, and we, you know, we're still very cordial. We're still talking.

And there wasn't a deal signed, but, you know, there's a point. in every fighter's career where sometimes you roll the dice on yourself. You know, sometimes you believe in yourself, and then you roll the dice. And I feel like I'm at a point where it's, Dustin's great fighter, and a lot of people look him a certain way, and there are certain fights that I'd be super excited about. And I'll tell you what, I'm warming up to this one. It's getting me excited, but I think just, I like to put myself in a very emotional state, and I think by rolling a dose of myself,

put my back against the wall. In the past, I've done really well there. So I'm kind of putting my own back against the wall. And I'm rolling a dorsen, and I'm betting on me. Is there any chance that you do get a new contract before this fight or now that you've accepted it and sort of moved on, signed the by agreement, I mean, is that now being discussed?

Like, are you putting that off to the side until July 29th and beyond? Well, when we were, you know, when we spoke, everything's really good between all of us, all parties. You know, we just haven't come in agreement. Every deal is different and every deal takes more time than the next. So I have a feeling we'll get something done right now. It's not. So rather than elongate the process and say, I'm not going to fight and stop my foot down and be a baby,

I said, let's fight, you know, let's just fight. Let's fight. And then we'll figure it out along the way. If it doesn't, it doesn't, but I think we're all talking and everything's going well. So I'm happy with the way things are going. But I think it's more important. Fans are yelling and screaming about this fight. Everybody wants it.

And I think it's more important that we put this fight on for the fans. He says that he told the UFC, I win this fight. No, if, ants or butts. I'm getting a title shot. Do you feel the same way you win this fight? You should get another crack at the belt? Yeah, this is a number one contender fight for sure. No offense or buts.

I mean, I think the public would agree. I thought I should have got a shot after Justin Gachie because of all the, I mean, if Justin Gatchie beat me, I was almost positive Justin Gage was getting a shot at the belt. But vice versa, it didn't go the other way. You know, so no big deal. I'll get back in there, showing them capable of fighting my heart out. And then, you know, I just think the belt comes as a byproduct of a bunch of hard work

and kind of being courageous and putting yourself in there against the best guys. And we'll just keep doing that. And the belt will, that whole thing will take care of itself with the world title. I got to ask you, Eddie, because I was sort of putting it out there. you know, I know that Nate Diaz was talking to the UFC. I know that they were in serious negotiations. And I also know that they were talking about a top five lightweight. Since then, of course, they're talking about GSP,

but it doesn't sound like either side wants that fight. And Nate Diaz even told MMA junkie over the weekend that he had someone in mind other than GSP, but that fight is unavailable. And I thought the only fight that made sense was you. Was that ever discussed? From what I was told, Nate Diaz was not available, you know,

that the GSP thing was going to happen. So, you know, that from, from what I'm told, that that, that was the thing going down,

that he wasn't available. I've asked for Nate Diaz again and again. I just don't think they, they want to fight. I feel like, if I want to fight with someone, I have to talk about that guy. I have to let it known to fans.

I got to let it know. to the promotion. I have to speak up. I can't just say secretly want to fight a guy. I have to speak up. And if you don't speak up, especially in the UFC, you don't get shit. So, you know,

Nate didn't speak up. So if it was, if it was me who he won it, he blew that. You know, he blew it. So he's got to talk and he's not talking. I think Nate's too busy. He wants to be the victim. and he wants people to bully him and stick his face so he can feel like the victim.

That's Nate's deal. So Nate can't go calling people out and saying who he wants to fight and be the victim at the same time. That's the kind of duty is. So, you know, and if he keeps playing it the way he is, he's never going to get a fight. So he's a non-factor right now in the world of MMA. That's all we have to say about him. And you, so you've moved on. I mean, right now, right now, it's a non-factor.

My mind's on Dustin. I got tunnel vision to take care of Dustin right now. If Nate wants to say my name, just say my name. That's it. And the fight's done. Just say it. I'm so afraid to say it. I don't know what his deal is.

Will you watch, I want to ask you the same question that I asked, Dustin. Will you watch the first fight? by the way, happy anniversary of that fight. It was exactly a year ago yesterday. It's crazy how quickly time has flown. Will you watch that fight in preparation for the second fight? I watch it yesterday. Oh, wow.

I watched it yesterday. I watched it. What, today? Sunday. No, I watched it Saturday morning before sparring. Wow. How many times? Because I wanted to see quickly before I had the spawn. and some of the thing.

I remember being in the fight, and I just, like, if you watch the fight after that, the adjustments that I made with Gachi, as far as being more offensive coming forward, using more angles, I've corrected like a shitload of things that I did wrong in the Dustin fight. I gave Dustin a lot of range. I gave him a lot of room to work, and he, did well. You know, I just, uh, sometimes I get stuck in that, you know, I got stuck in that with Connor where I was giving them too much room to work. And, um, when I do that against guys with longer reach, especially South Pole, but things just come in a little more of an angle. Um,

I get, I get tug up too much. So, uh, lately and, and even before the Justin fight, I just started started to begin to believe in my power again and my ability to really damage and hurt people. and, you know, even my teammates like Marlin and Frankie and them kind of brought that back out of me. Like, Ed, what the fuck? Like, what are you doing waiting on the outside, like, when you hit the way you do, and you're as strong as you are. So, like, just moving forward now and damaging people, which I used to doing the past. So I just want to, you know, not give these guys room to work.

And I'll make adjustments to leave me. It'll be a whole different fight. a whole different fight. And the fans are going to love it. How many times do you think at this point you've seen that fight? I don't know. I'm not like a lot of fighters.

I watch myself over and over and over. I'm my biggest critic. And it took me a while to watch it because what I really wanted to know with the whole controversy, I really wanted to see the truth of that whole controversy with him. And that's why I saw,

say, like, I've watched this thoroughly. You know, I've watched it thoroughly. I watched it. Him sort of negotiating with himself. Am I going to stay in? Am I going to be out? Him look over, him look over at me as I'm pacing as he's on the stool, still negotiating with himself. Should I stay in or should I stay out? And then the whole quitting part where he looks of Herb and says, um, I, my, my, which was complete bullshit. Um, so I've watched this thoroughly slow motion over, over and over, and, you know, I would never come out with a claim and say, oh, the guy quit. I would never say that like, um, hastily. I would never, I would never do that. I would definitely take my time before I made a judgment like that.

Did you, do you still feel like it was a legal shot? from what I'm told the first two needs were legal and every other state except for Texas and then the third knee the third knee was it was on that was a illegal the third knee was illegal but um as far as people saying oh I did it on purpose because I knew that I wasn't I mean I got to be the slick you you have to think highly of me I have to have a super high intelligence in this sport to be half knocked out and have the thought in mind like, I'm going to get DQed so I can win. Like that's some super fast analyzing.

I hate to break it to the fans out there. I'm not that intelligent to be doing that at super fast speeds in the middle of a fight. That was me in a dog mode half knocked out, just trying to just trying to survive. this is what happens and that's why they have judges man I'm fist fighting for my life for literally for my life I um I don't assess like the roles and things like that I'm fist fighting it's it's all instinctual so that's why they have a ref a ref you know it says what's fair and what's unfair um before I let you go Eddie I'm I'm trying to ask everyone this question because I'm fascinated in this topic did you see what happened between the fourth and fifth round on Saturday night

with Raquel Pennington with her saying that she was done, I'm done, I want to be done, and her corner saying, no, no, no, no, no, let's go back out there. Did you see that? And if so, do you have a problem with that? I did. And I seen you, I seen you were, you had a pretty strong view of it. Yes. And when I, when I, I listen to your view of it. And, you know, I have conflicting views of the whole thing. You know, it's very, very hard for me to give you my, my honest opinion is, I was there where she was in a fight before.

I was there. I was exactly where she was, where I told my corner, I think I'm mad of this. And, which fight was that? Gilbert Melendez broke my nose in orbital in the first round of the Mexico fight.

And I went back, I went back to the, I believe I went back to the stool, and I kind of, I talked to Henry. and I didn't say what she said. I wasn't very clear.

I was just like, man, I'm messed up. And you could tell my spirit was a bit broken. And Henry brought me back off the ledge and let me know, like, hey, we're going to deal with this. And I called back and I won the fight. And I kind of owed that to Henry Hoof, who brought me back to the fight. And if it was just myself negotiating with myself and my own mind, my spirit was low. and I think you're right A corner's job is to protect the fighter

But a corner's job is also They're like the pit stop Like when a car is doing Indy 500 The car is going to be worn down The car is going to be messed up Shit's going to break Shit's going to fly off It's them guy's job at the pit stop

To revive that car To revive the spirit of that car And send it back out there on the road but at all costs send it back on the road. So it's a double-edged sword. I think there's not a one answer to that question. The better the corner knows the fighter, the better decision the corner can make to that fighter.

But that relationship between the fighter and the corner, there's no one answer for that, for what you're saying. So I feel like you're being a bit judged. I do feel like you're being a bit judgmental, not knowing the situation. But the relationship between the corner and the fighter, that's what's going to determine whether that person's sent back out there or not. And that's something that's only between them too. Nobody else can judge it, the relationship. That's very fair, and I respect it more than you know.

but is it fair to also say that with her saying I'm done and them responding the way they did and then not offering any technical advice, any sort of game plan to turn the tide, that maybe that wasn't the best coaching possible. I may not know about the relationship, but I feel like at this point we know what's good coaching and what's not. Nothing was said there other than let's recover later. We'll recover later. Let's dig down deep. Let's give it all you got. What does that do? That does nothing. That's just a little bit of a motivational speech. There's no path to victory with that kind of advice. Is it fair to say that on that end, maybe things could have been done differently?

You're right. I read that I read that you said, send her back out there and tell her she got one minute. I really like that. But also, remember, Eric, we're looking at it from the outside. We're looking at it in a very cognitive view. But when I'm a coach and I care about someone and they just told me they want to quit, which kind of throws me for a loop, I have one minute. minute to talk to this person and my mind and heart rate are probably the same as the fighter.

Like, I'm making very rash decisions that I hope are the right ones. So, um, from us from the outside to be outside coaches and say he should, this should have been said or this should have been done. Um, there wasn't a protocol online. Like, she, she didn't tell them before the fight, hey, if I decide I want to quit, this is going to be the plan. We're going to do. this, that, this, and that. Like, literally, she just hit him with, and the fourth round of a very intense situation, hit them with, I'm done,

and they probably were thrown back because she probably never told her corner that ever. And they were looking like, there was no protocol online. It wasn't like, they're not used to a fighter saying to them, I'm finished. So they just kind of did what they felt was in their heart was right at the time,

considering the relationship that they have with her. So, man, it's... Shouldn't there be a protocol? Shouldn't there be a discussion before the fight? If I tell you I'm done, I want you to... It's so hard for a fighter to say that, right? It's so hard to say I'm actually done. I know you guys are the proudest human beings walking this earth.

To see her turn around and kind of whisper it to her corner and, of course, the camera picks it up, that to me says a lot. This was a difficult decision to make. Shouldn't they help her out there in that moment and say, all right, we've had enough for you to say that, or at least ask her, why, at least ask her why do you want to be done with this fight? Are you hurt? Is something bothering you? Like, just gauge the situation as opposed to completely dismissing it and driving past it? Yeah, yeah. I think that the why should have been answered before anything.

Yeah. But think about it. Think about it as a coach. You know what I mean? Like, let's say I call Mark Henry right now, I'm telling them I'm not coming in at 5 o'clock. What do you think his immediate response is going to be? I get what you're saying, but this is different. This is my coach. This is how he's used to respondent to me. This is our relationship.

Hey, Mark, I'm not coming in at 5 o'clock. You think he's going to ask me what's going on in my life, or you think he's going to say, yes, the fuck you are. I mean, maybe both, right? Maybe he could say why, and then, nah, come on, man. I'll see you at 5 o'clock. I don't know. I just think our coaches,

how a coach's relationship is with a fighter is a unique thing. Like I said, there's no answer for each. There's no copy and paste for this situation. Right. If I'm a fighter who every time something, like, let's say I'm your coach, Ariel, right? And I've knew you for five, ten years. And I've never, every time you've had a hard round with someone, you've come back and try to quit on me.

I know that about you. You know what I mean? That's something personal. I'm not going to talk to people about it, but I know you're kind of like a bitch. You know what I mean? So it's my job is your coach to know that about you and to try to correct that. So like that's, it's a personal thing and it's in between the coach and the fighter and them knowing each other as good as they can know each other. I feel like there's no copy and page for their situation.

Fascinating topic. I appreciate you weighing in and thanks for being a good sport with Dustin. It's a lot of fun. It's a lot of fun with you too. You two are just so intense and I cannot wait for that. that fight. I don't know if I'm more excited for anything coming up this summer than your fight. There are fights that I'm as, you know, equally as excited, but that one is just, I mean, I just can't see it going any other way, but really, really, really fun for the fans.

Thank you so much, Eddie. Glad you accepted it. Glad everything's okay between you and the UFC despite no new contract. Good luck out there in Calgary. And of course, good luck as you prepare for the fight. Thanks, I appreciate it. All right, there he is. Eddie Alvarez, July 28th, Calgary, Alberta, Canada. Okay, let us now transition to one of our favorite guests in the history of this program. We have a lot to discuss with this man. So let's go back to the magic of Skype and say hello to the gangster himself, Chalp. Son. And Chale, it's been a while. I've been trying to track you down, but you're a very hard man to get in touch with. You're on TV all over the place. So it's good to see you again. It's good to see your face. I think we just, I don't know if he's

equally. Oh, is he back? Usually Chale has crystal clear Skype. His internet over there in Westland is usually spot on. Okay, we're calling him on the phone. Apparently, we've had issues connecting with Chelle Sondon. This is surprising. This is unlike him. Nevertheless, how about this little nugget, courtesy of my friend Jed Mishu, who also works on MMAfighting.com. Tomorrow, May 15th, is the 20-year anniversary of Chuck Liddell's UFC and MMA debut. How about that? May 15th, 1998, UFC 17. 20-year anniversary today, he announces he's back. Excuse me, Chale. Are you Are you there? What's up, Palani?

Hey, I could hear you the whole time. I'm sorry about my connection. How is everything? This doesn't feel right. I feel like I need to see you. It's just not the same. I'd like to see you too, my friend. That's very nice of you.

What's going on? Okay, there's a lot going on. Let's start here because we had some breaking news on this program. I know you usually tune in. Maybe you were busy this morning, but your old pal, Chuck Goodell, in studio, officially announcing that he is unretired, that he is back, that he would like to fight Tito Ortiz. He says it's going to happen in November

for Oscar Delahua's promotion. He also said that if that fight doesn't come to fruition, it's not just all hinging on Mr. Ortiz. He'd like to get a piece of you. But at the end of the day, the pot, at the end of this rainbow, is John Jones. That's the guy he wants to fight.

He thinks he could beat him. What do you make of all this? Yeah, self-awareness is tough, man. It's a hard thing. Hey, let's start at the beginning because I am curious of this Oscar thing. So that is not set. He and Tito, that's not a set.

Oscar doesn't have a date. He's not moving into that foray officially. Is that what we can gather from this? He says it's going to happen, him and Tito. He says that he wants it to happen with Oscar. He said that he's had some very good conversations with Oscar, but it's not signed sealed and delivered. It's not a done deal, but it appears as though it's moving

in the direction of Golden Boy M.A. All right. Well, that could be fun. I think that could be fun if Golden Boy got off the ground. That would surprise me as their marquee fight. a fight that the two top promoters already passed on. It would surprise me who's given Oscar the advice to take that. But for me personally, I watch those guys again.

Why would that surprise you, Chil? You know the landscape. There's not that many great free agents out there. Isn't that the kind of fight that a new promoter uses to get into the space, two legends who aren't really maybe wanted by the top-tier promotions? Well, I mean, I think maybe you're left with it. I don't know. I don't really want to piss on those guys as much as you might think I want to. It's just a unique position when Scott Coker and Dana White both say no,

and you come into a new business where you'd like to turn a profit and knowing that you have no experience and knowing that it's a fight that two successful promoters both said, we don't want. I think that it takes some guts to do that. I think even go as far as to say reckless, but, you know, that's it. I would have some interest in seeing Golden Boy do something in MMA. I think that could be fun for everybody. Why are you interested in that? In Golden Boy, well, you know, competition's always good.

I think that very few people get in the space and actually know it. I don't think there's very many people alive that understand the fight business. Oscar would qualify as one of them, and even though it's a little bit different and he's branching out, I think that that could be fun. I think you've got some good avenues. I think we'd have a lot of questions. It's going to be on Showtime. Is it going to be on HBO?

Oh, is it going to be on neither? He's not going to come in with his first foray and get a television deal. So does he go to pay-per-view? I just think there's a lot of interesting things that for us as fans might get a kick out of. And what do you make of him saying that if Tito falls through that he's interested in fighting you? I'm in. I didn't know that he said that, but I'm in. I consider it accepted right here on the MMA hour.

Wow. Okay. I can tell you this with Chuck. I mean, in fairness, if we're just having a real talk here and not not. two guys trying to, you know, come out and do what fighters do and show bravado. Chuck was offered that fight, not once but twice, and he didn't take it with Bellator, and he didn't take it because he chickened out. He just, you know, I couldn't get whatever part of it was with his contract, right?

So I always do get a little confused where guys say that they want to fight, but then behind closed doors, they don't sign the contract. That part just always kind of put me off. So I don't know what's going on with him, but if you would like to do the fight, we'll do the fight. So in other words, you're saying you don't quite believe that he's coming back until he actually comes back? I don't think he wants to come back against me. I think it's something to say because it's good for a headline because he knows that I will respond

and then we'll get on shows like yours and get a little back and forth. But, I mean, as far as that, that was offered twice. And that was turned down twice. How do you feel about Tito coming back, considering your history with him? You were the last guy to fight him? Yeah, Tito sucks. He does move the needle. There's an interest there.

He's got a certain presence about him where I think that you could do something with him. So, you know, if he's healthy and doesn't offer the excuses, and I don't think that that goes hand at hand. I don't think you can get a Tito without the list of excuses. But if you could, I think I'd be in support. Okay. So obviously, Chuck isn't on the table for you right now. You are booked.

You know what's next for you. It's Fyodor Amalienenko. You were there. Just a few weeks ago, Illinois at the Allstate Arena, you saw it. Honestly, are you surprised it went down that way? Not so much that he won, but the way in which he won and how quickly he won. Yeah, I mean, that was a bit of a dog fight. It was very sloppy.

You know, as two guys who just got in a fight, you know, for example, I watched it live. I loved the match. When they announced it at the end, they set in, it winner by knockout at 48 seconds. And I even had to stop and go, was that it? Forty-eight seconds. I mean, so many things happen. And in that 48 seconds, I felt like I got my money's worth, where normally a 48-second fight would disappoint me a little.

But, yeah, I mean, they went out and they both wanted to win, and they went forward. I got a kick out of it. I thought it was fun. Who did you think was going to win that fight going into it? Well, I thought, I thought Fader could knock him out in the first round. But I thought Frank was the better fighter, and I thought if Frank could just drag this on a little bit, that it would start to tip his way. people to use his size. They've got some positions

that would have given Fador big problems, but you know, I think Fador's going to give guys problems on his feet, particularly guys that are bigger. He's very fast for a heavyweight and he's very explosive. So I guess if you were asking me overall, I thought Frank was going to win, but I did

think he would have, you know, some problems to get through early and and he did. I believe that this is a home run for Beltaur. I believe, with all due respect to Frank, this is the fight that they wanted. If they had it their way, this is actually the semifinals that they wanted, both matchups, the perfect scenario for them played out.

Do you feel the same way as far as your matchup is concerned? Was this the matchup that you really wanted? Yes, I didn't think about it a whole bunch like matchups. You know, in a tournament, I've gone through tournaments my whole life. You kind of just let him go. And I get roped into that, though, even over the weekend, I'm watching Mo and Bader fight. I'm thinking, how am I going to do it, Mo?

How am I going to do with Bader? And you've got to refocus and go, wait a second. That's down the road. And if you think about that one, you're never going to get to that one. So, yeah, the matchup, I hadn't given it a lot of thought. I just kind of let the tournament play out how it will. And, you know, I trust that everybody will stay healthy and it'll stay intact.

That's always a frustration, right, Arrow? I mean, you have it, and I have it, all the listeners. As fans, when tournaments don't unfold the way the brackets, somebody steps out and an alternate get thrown in such a disappointment. So, you know, I trust that everybody will stay in and do what they've agreed to do. and I think we have a good match to look forward to. What I love so much about this matchup, on top of the actual style breakdown

is the fact that everyone who fights Fyodor, they always do it the same way. A lot of respect, it's a great honor, all that stuff and more, you're different. In fact, I do believe it was our conversation seven years ago in that hotel room at the Mandalay Bay where you kind of threw the first jab at him, where you questioned the validity of his fights

and said all those fights were fixed and whatnot. And then when you came in the cage, it was more of the same in the sense that it wasn't respect and I'm humbled and all this stuff. That's what makes this fun because we've never seen anyone go after Fyodor that way. Will we see more of that? I feel like you're putting a little something on the enunciation of his name there. How are you saying Fador? It's not Fador. It's Fyodor.

Ask Moranalla, who's called all his fights. Ask any Russian. It's not Fader. We have anglicized it. We have Americanized it. it's Fiorder. I'm not challenging you. I'm not challenging you.

I just, I don't know how to say it. Fittador, I can't do that with my tongue. Fittador, am I there? Would you rather that I just do it the American way so it's not awkward? No, I want to get it right myself.

I think I've been names are important. If they weren't important, we'd all just walk around and call each other Walter. No, I mean, I want to get his name right. Fedadorador, I can't do it. By the way, that's my second son's name, a fantastic name, Walter, not Fodor.

So thank you for saying that. but Fyodor, Fyodor. Very easy. Fylo, door. Yeah, that's not in the cards for me. I'm glad it's easy for you. That's the tough one for me. Try Fior. What's the question about it?

Yeah, man, I don't know about the whole respect. He seems like a perfectly nice guy. I don't think I would want to take anything from it, but it's a gimmick, right? All the guys are working at a gimmick. He found his gimmick. He found a little something with the respect and the humbleness and looking like dumpy Dwarf getting interviewed by, you know, his translator's Snow White there. And that's good for some people.

It doesn't do a damn thing for me. I'm not impressed, but I don't fall for it at the end of the day. Behind that little frumpy, frumpy look on his face and a little doughy bald heads with a dirty, rotten cage fighter, just like me. And he can pull the mask over the world's eyes. You know, I believe in my God and my this and my that, man, you're getting in a steel cage, half naked, look at a whip somebody's ass. You're a scumbag and so am I. So if you want to sell some T-shirts that way, have at it. You've got your style and I've got mine.

but I'm not buying into it, and I don't really give a damn about it. You bring up his Japan record. I don't give a damn about that either. Those fights were fixed over there. And does that mean they all were or all of his? I don't even know why we go down that road. If you got a promoter that's fixing fights,

the whole thing is tarnished, and his whole thing's tarnished. It only counts what he did in North America. And if he can get over on me, it'll be the staple in his hat because he's never fought anybody like me before. Do you think he understands when you're talking about him, like when he's standing there?

It looks like he's kind of looking off, but do you think he understands, everything that you're saying about him? I think that Snow White tells him after the fact. I don't think he has great English, if that's what you're asking. I don't think he's like an Anderson type that just doesn't want to do media so pretends he doesn't understand. I think he legitimately doesn't speak very good English.

I like that about him. I like that he's a Russian that lives in Russia and represents his people and his culture. I think that's honorable. And if he doesn't want to learn the language, I'm not going to force it on him. And that's another thing I love so much about. It kind of is a bit nostalgic here because this matchup reminds me of you and Anderson where no one poked the bear, no one went after him, everyone had so much respect for him, and you come in there, say, you know, crap on all of that, you know, let's just go.

Let's just get this done. One of the legend of the sport, I mean, it kind of feels a lot like the Anderson fight, the stakes, his legacy, your legacy. Do you see the connection there? Yeah, man, I get it. And, you know, that's something pissed me on from the beginning of my career. You know, I'll see fighters in the back with other fighters want their autographs and pictures and all these. Man, I don't understand it.

You want to fight, and I want to fight. We're both the bottom of the barrel here, so let's just get it on. And, you know, these guys want to talk about their honor and their respect. I don't understand those things. You know, you call poke in the bear, but the reality is there's fighters that are legit tough guys, legit trained killers that are scared of other one. I don't understand it. You know, I didn't go after Anderson because I knew anything about him.

I went after him to set an example for the rest of the guy that he gets two-on-year. and two legs and even has to weigh in. They didn't have to weigh in when I started this sport. Now we all weigh in. Got all these rules and gloves and wraps on your hands and all sorts of stuff. We didn't even used to do. I mean, it used to be real tough guys that got in there to see who was tougher. I did that whole thing to set an example.

And the same thing goes with Fador. You know, guys are scared of him. It's not because he's a nice guy. It's because he's a killer, and they're a bunch of wimps. And they don't want to get in his crosshairs. That's the guy I go after. I don't go after the low-hanging fruit. man, I go after the guy nobody else wants a piece of.

From a style perspective, are you at all concerned about the size here? Because one thing to fight a guy like Rampage, you are fighting a somewhat natural heavyweight, although there have been some talks in the past that he should move down to 205. We know what you want to do. We know where your bread is buttered. Are you worried about the fact that his size may make it very difficult to take him down? Maybe you know where my bread is buttered. I will concede that you know what I want to do.

but I will remind you, I fought 49 men and I've never been outstruck, not by any of them. And you bring up Anderson a few times, and what a great striker he is. He wasn't even close to the striker I was, not even remotely close. But he's still known as a great striker, and I'm still not. It's very confusing to me where that lies, and I will take anybody down that I can take down, and as soon as I can't, then I'll beat them up on their feet. And in 49 tries and 21 years in this sport, there's not one guy that's, ever gotten over them on me on the standout.

I've been knocked down one time in my career. I've never been knocked out, and I've never been outstruck, and I took on some of the great strikers, and I could name drop, but I don't know if guys would remember it, but a Mars Sue Levin, Alex Stevenling back in the old days, but these were these were K-1 strikers that were supposed to be feared. They didn't even come close to me. So I hear all of these things, but I've never seen it. And if I got to get an a fistic cuff with them, then we'll do that, too.

And you ask me if his size concerns me, yeah, I, I think it's very helpful for him. I think he's the right-sized heavyweight, you know, right in that 240, 2.35 range is what he weighs in his whole career. That's, you know, a little more than Randy Couture. It's equal with Fordham. It's equal with Steepa. I think that's a real good size for a heavyweight.

And even when I was face-to-face with him in the cage, he's even shorter. You know, he's a little shorter than me. And that makes it hard. If you want to come out grappling heavy, it's always better to take on guys that are a little taller you can get underneath them faster and easier. So yeah, I think that his size poses lots of problems. I don't give a damn about any of them and it's not going to stop me from going out there doing business, but I'm sure it's scared plenty of other guys away from the table. Have they told you when this will happen and where yet? No, but I know they're looking at either

East Coast or West Coast, which I interpreted as either Los Angeles or M.A. that doesn't mean I'm right on that interpretation. I did that on my own and they also told me around October, which could mean anytime, September, October, November, around October. Okay. Do you have a preference? A win now, I mean, the sooner the better, you know, let's get in there and get this over with, but no, I suppose I don't know. A month is whatever, whatever side of that that goes, it goes. You weren't in San Jose this past weekend, right? No, I was at home watching on television. How is that possible? How do they not have you at all these fights working in some capacity?

How is this a great to talk to Scott? I was supposed to cover for ESPN, so I couldn't do the San Jose date, and then ESPN ended up not covering the pay-per-view, so I was left out. Okay, okay, I understand now. what did you make of what? Was there complimented? I felt like you were about to compliment. Yeah, there was.

Well, thank you, buddy. That was nice of you. Can I just say, and I hope I'm not getting you in trouble, it is a massive mistake to leave you on the desk during one of those broadcasts. The same way it's a mistake to have John McCarthy at the debt. Like, it should be you and John, John the X's and O's guy. You're the promotional guy, you're the hype man, but you're also the X and the Nose guy. you guys together, the yin and the yang, is perfect. But to put one of you at the desk or him at the desk, it doesn't make any sense to me. They need to figure that out.

Oh, really? You think John and I should do it together? That's interesting. They've never suggested that. That's the no-brainer. No, you got the three-man booth. All right. Hey, I'm not against John.

That I just, yeah, it hasn't been suggested yet. Never got to try it. But thank you. Are you surprised Bader won the way in which he did? Yeah, I mean, Bader's so good. Bader is so good. He's so strong. He's so powerful. He's great condition. He works hard. But yeah, I think he was, too. I don't think he thought he was going to go out and stop him with one shot in 15 seconds. So, yeah, of course, I was surprised. And those guys, I mean, if I could go either way, you know, those guys, you look at them on paper, they're so close.

Bader had a little size on him and I guess a little bit of youth, however far that helps a guy. But, yeah, that's a close fight. I still think it is. And I think you go out and do that one, again, and we get a lot of minutes out of those few. But, yeah, good for Bader, man. Bader's a problem. Bader's a big problem in this tournament. If anybody overlooks him, they're going to have the same result as what happened Saturday. Is it unfair to call him the favor right now? No, I don't think so.

I mean, we tend to do that, right? Whatever we saw last tends to get a little more push over what we saw previously. So I've always thought he was the dark horse in this thing. I mean, don't forget, Aaron, we're all fighting for a world championship. That's what this whole thing is about. that's some bitch is already a world champion. He's on a gold belt right now. So, no, I don't have the favorite,

I think if you did a poll, you'd probably get Fador would probably win that, but maybe not, maybe it'd be better. Okay, now I have to ask you about this. I'm sure you saw what happened between Raquel Pennington and her coach going to the fifth round, right? Yes. Okay. So I've made my feelings known on this.

in case you don't know, just in short, I think they wronged her, I think they failed her. You say I'm done, you should be done. But I'd love to hear your point of view on this. What do you think about what happened there? She says, I'm done, I want to be done. They say, no, no, no, no, no, dig down deep, give me all you got, we'll recover later.

That's, in essence, what occurred. What did you make of that whole exchange? Yeah, so, I mean, ultimately, if I have to decide, I would say when a fighter says they're done, they are done, and you've got to stop. but her coach did go about it in a way that should be considered, which is he was very calm, and he kind of pled with her. He didn't go out like some coaches, and, you know, you die on your sword, stay out there.

He didn't do any of that stuff. He was very calm, and he almost begged in some ways, very calmly. He just said, please, you know, go out there just throw everything you've got, and let's see what happens. And I think that that's relevant to it. I don't think he came in with that tough guy bravado, and we stayed till the end. I thought that he understood his athlete. she seemed to respond to it.

She didn't respond at all. She put her head down, but ultimately did agree with him. And, you know, coach does know his athlete. So I think it's a hindsight, and the only person that could tell us is Raquel. Maybe she could share some stories and go, you know, I kind of like to do that.

I just get it a little bit. I've done a little bit of that myself before Arrow, but I never meant I really wanted out. It was just a way to release whatever pressure if you were under right then to verbalize them and then to weaken their and make them go away. So I don't know what their history is, but I did like his

demeanor very much. I like the way that he calmly listened, calmly shared what he thought, and ultimately his fighter agreed. But I don't disagree with you that when a fighter says they're done, they're done. That is the rule. So a little bit of a

unique situation where maybe we need to hear from her after the fact. Yes. And in fact, she was supposed to be on just a bit of a programming note, but now I'm told that her flights got all held up and that unfortunately she won't be able to be on today. So that's a little disappointing. I know she wanted to be on to tell her side and we'll have to wait for that now. But is it not fair to say, Chale, that at least if he would have said, why do you want to be out here? Okay, all right, this is why. Okay, he hears her answer and then,

okay, give me a minute. Let's do this. Let's do X, Y, and Z. Let's try to go for this take down or whatever the game plan was and let's try to go for it. And if it doesn't work out, if it continues to go our way, then I'm going to pull the plug on this fight. But all that was said was let's dig down deep, let's recover later. And it was just all kind of like shallow, hollow instructions. That's ultimately the issue that I had with all this. Like that's not the time for a pep talk, a rah-rah speech. That's the time to figure out why does this ultimately incredibly tough person. Why does she want out? It's so difficult to actually verbalize that. And all he says is like, no, no, no, it doesn't even actually listen why she wants out. It's embarrassing. Notice her

stand up, turn around, and whisper to her corner. She didn't want that to be on camera. She wanted that to be private. And of course, the cameraman picked it up and more power to them. But to then have your coach completely dismiss it, what are you going to do? Have an argument with the guy there? You go out and you live to fight another day. You try and hope for the best.

It obviously didn't go her way. But that is ultimately what I had an issue with. Do you get what I'm saying? Yeah. Oh, yeah. What a tough spot, too, right? You're the coach. You have 60 seconds.

You want to talk about the ledge. You need to get a water. you need to give them instruction. You've never been in that spot before you. I fully agree that, you know, we are going to Monday morning quarterback this thing, and it's not totally fair. But I agree with you. And, you know, I'm always been up the mindset.

You know, you don't stop the fight just when your fighters hurt or just when they're damaged or just when they're stuck in a position. You stop the fight as soon as your fighter can no longer win. As soon as you realize we have crossed that line and we're not going to win tonight, you get them out of it. That's what I believe, according to. does. We never see that, and most people don't agree with me. But that's what I

think. I don't think you send them out there to have this wonderful, rocky moment and this tough guy night. I think that's provato and good for marketing, but ultimately you protect that athlete. So that's my mindset with the coach. I did think he went about it very diplomatically, but I also believe in the three-strike rule, just like

baseball, right? We're not winning around. We're completely exhausted. We've got a broken nose, and now we've said we don't want to be in here. That's four. strikes. And I would have got her out of there. But again, it's going to be very hard for me to challenge the coach. We need to hear from Raquel after the fact. You know, she's got a little backstory. And maybe they even have this talk. It keep me in there no matter what. You know, my mind wanders a

little bit. Refocus me. You never know, man. You hear some really weird stuff in the corner. And then sometimes you see the athlete fire the corner of it and go, okay, that's exactly what I thought I saw. And sometimes you don't. You see him come out and go, no, no, no, there's a little more to it. So I am definitely reserving judgment. Have you ever, and that's unlike you, I must say. So I'm a little surprised to hear you say this. Have you ever been in a situation where you said I'm done and your coach didn't let you, you know, didn't let you quit? Essentially, he said that no, you're not done?

Yeah, yeah, one time, I don't even know why I wanted to quit. I was 11 years old. It was a wrestling match. It was two, two-minute rounds. And I remember telling the coach it between the rounds, I'm done. and he's like, no, you know, it doesn't work. You can't really throw talent in wrestling. It'd be beyond odd.

You know, guys not trying to damage you. But, you know, I was a little kid and I've only been in the sport for a little bit of time. But I do remember that. I remember the coach. I remember where we were. I remember everything about it. And I don't remember what I was thinking. But, yeah, I did try.

And do you feel like there's this taboo sort of stigma put on fighters like yourself? Like you can't quit under, you know, like no must, right? Roberto Durand has to live with that for his entire life. No, Moss, you can't quit under no circumstances. Can you quit? When, you know, you guys are the toughest human beings on the face of the earth. You walk in there, you fight. It didn't go your way.

Recognize, it takes courage to recognize that it's just not going your way. What's wrong with that? I don't understand why that's such a bad thing. Yeah, yeah, and it can be very bad for your career. That is, like, a big thing, you know, whether you quit or not. But the truth is that nobody speaks about. That's what the whole sport's about. I'm trying to break your will and you're trying to break mine.

and one of us, nine out of ten times is going to succeed. Every now and then time runs out, nobody gave up, but usually someone does. You know, the rear naked choke, one of the most effective submissions and all of MMA, nobody's got, I haven't seen anybody get rear naked choked in over a decade, Ariel. That's the new way out.

When you don't want to verbalize it to your corner and stop that way, you give up a position, pretend to give up your neck, wait until they have it secure everybody safe, and then you tap out. So, I mean, fight after, fight after fight guys are quitting. I watched Anderson Silva knock guys out, but he didn't even touch.

It fell down and pretended they were out. I watched Mike Tyson do it. Bruce Sheldon comes to mind. Bruce Sheldon just pretended he was knocked out. And I don't fault him. You know, he got to hold on to a little bit of his pride just as a fighter. I can recognize it. Go, okay, the guy just gave up and pretended he was caught in the rear naked choke.

But that's what the sport is. There's really not shame on it. One guy's trying to pose his belt on the other. You're trying to break him. You're trying to scare him. you're trying to inflict damage, make him think more is coming, make him do the math in his head, okay, give you this much damage in three minutes, you've got 12 more to go, get yourself out of here now.

All open the door up, where you're all you've got to do is walk out, let your tag team partner, known as the referee, step in here and do his job. But that's what happens. I mean, fight after fight after fight to get stopped is one person quitting. There's not a shame in it. It's the reality of a sport. That's what you're trying to do. You're trying to get the other guy to quit.

You don't want to be caught doing it. You don't want to be caught trying to quit. So I don't know really where that balance lies, but I do understand it. I see it all the time, and the average fan wouldn't recognize it, but it happens. Last thing on this, do you feel like the pay structure comes into play at all, maybe subconsciously show, win money? The corner doesn't want the burden of maybe robbing, quote, unquote, their fighter of 50% of their purse. So let them deal with that. Go out there on your shield.

If you want to throw a Hail Mary, then, you know, it's essentially on you. but that financial burden where unlike in boxing, you're only getting 50% when you step in and you've got that other big amount of money and this is a fighter who hasn't fought in 18 months

hasn't had a big payday, it's just too much to put on one man's shoulders or a corner's shoulders. Do you feel like that comes into play at all? It could perhaps, I don't know, I don't like cornering myself, I don't do it very often,

so I can't really speak from the mind of the corner man. I wouldn't think that they would think about that too much, but maybe a factor then, I would think in this particular situation with Raquel versus Amanda that the cornerman was probably just caught off guard and

I mean kind of looked like that he was just being a real guy that kind of pled with her very calmly I thought he was very respectful and soft-spoken. It looked like he was caught off guard and what he encourages fighter to go out there and do five more minutes. That's what it looked like to me. Now whether that's right, wrong, or indifferent, maybe we've got to have a dialogue on it, but I doubt that he had time to process

and cartmanalize that all of those different factors. that would surprise me. Are we going to get to see Amanda versus Cyborg now? Was that ever announced? Did Dana talk about that or anybody talk about that? No one has talked about it. I know it's something that they're interested in,

but it's nowhere near done. Do you like that fight? That's another 35 or going up to 145. Oh, I love it. I love it. I mean, it's maybe the only women's fight that I really genuinely want to see. I was very excited. We were promised that fight.

I was very excited for that fight and that we didn't get it. both girls now have fought and won. And yeah, I think that's all. You know, don't forget if you want to fight, if you want to be the number one contender right now for the World Championship, all you have to do is raise your hand if the opponent is cyborg. That's how they're finding people right now. Anyone that says they're willing to do it gets to go out and do it.

And, you know, you're getting to see just how big a chickens come into this sport. I've never seen anything like this in my life. If I was to tell you there was a time you could fight for a world, title, compete for a world title, and all you had to do is raise your hand. You'd go, well, Chair, what year was that? 1950 or the 1800s? No, man, it's right here, 2018. To become a number one contender, you just have to say I'm willing to do it. And we're not seeing girls do that. So as far as bringing a 35-pounder up, I got no problem with that. I love it. I love that parody. I like the new Dana mindset. I like that we're going to

see Cormier versus Stepe. I like that we're mixing and blending. Boxing has been doing that forever. And MMA has been very disciplined to not. I like Lorette right now. Let's blend them. If two people want to fight and it's a compelling match and you've got them both under contract, give us the match. Wow. Okay. Just a couple

of things before I let you go. Vitor Belfort said goodbye on Saturday. Any fond memories of the phenom? Your old pal? Oh, almost all of them. I watched his very first fight. He was 19 years old. He was Vitor Belfort. Gracie back then.

Those fantastic hands. I remember when he, you know, fighting at heavyweight, fighting guys like Hank Abbott weighing in at, you know, 220 pounds and taking on these big guys. Yeah, it was awesome. You know, all my memories of Vitor awesome. I thank him for his memories. But I also support him here.

You know, I think that enough enough. I think, and I think he looked good Saturday. Machita's a tough style to deal with. And when you get kicked in the face by anybody, let alone, Mekita, your night is probably going to be over. So, yeah, I got great. great memories. If I could give any message to Vitor, and I know he watches your show, I would simply say thank you.

Wow. Nothing else. For Vitor, no, man, nothing else. What was that not enough? I meant for that to be very gracious. Is it not enough? Do you want to be more Vitor stories? I remember there was a time you told him to get your bags and you wanted to fight him. I remember you guys have a bit of a history and it never came to fruition. Yeah, but everybody, you have to follow a code.

Everybody has to have a code. And that is as soon as somebody's no longer on the roster, you just, you know, you remember them fondly. It's a death, even if it's a death of a career. But once it's over, it's over. I would never challenge somebody to a fight that wasn't a mixed martial artist. And as great as he is and a world champion and a future Hall of Famer, he's no longer a mixed martial artist. He's off the board and you just remember for the memories. Okay, fair enough. And last thing, what's going on between you and 50 Cent? Is this a thing? Is this really happening? What's going on? You're thinking shots at you? What's happening? I have it the foggiest idea, and I don't know what he's doing. He's the dumbest guy in the room at all times, and it's beyond aggravating

to me. And, you know, basically I said that, but, you know, when you bring in a dumb, dumb, it's really hard to then respect him, right? And he's just, he can't not jump the shark. It's not the biggest deal. I don't know that he should have his feelings heard about this, but he did, and he took his shot at me, and so I came back at him, but it's very fair when I tell you, this guy jumps the shark. This guy is a narcissist on the highest of levels. that he's got to see his social media light up. He can never have a long-term plan. He signs something with Bellator.

Nobody knows what he signed on to do or exactly what he's doing, which is baffling and intriguing and will allow for the greatest thing you can have in the world of marketing, which is speculation. Then he was so stupid instead of letting the picture of the contract signing circulate and let people guess and be baffled and wonder and curious. He had to come out and say, now we want to fight Rampage, which is beyond silly. So now we know what you're doing.

Now we know you're doing nothing. We know you're doing a spoof. We wouldn't have known that, and you could have got two months more of headlines out of it, if you just had a plan, calm down, didn't act like a narcissist that had to live for the moment, and see his Twitter feed light up at 140 characters or less, and take a breath. He did the same thing with Floyd Mayweather. I remind you, five years ago, him and four of her best friends are sitting in Floyd's kitchen, and they start a fake fight on social media.

The whole thing was designed so that 50% get into the boxing promotion, and he was going to build a fight between Floyd and another guy that he was going to put in his place that he couldn't go in there and fight Floyd. It's not a terrible storyline, and tell you, tell us exactly what you're doing. You know, there used to be a great guy on radio named Paul Harvey, and he would come on and he tell these great stories, and then you go to lunch break, and then you tune in for the rest of the story. That's an important thing to do when you're manipulating.

into media. You don't tell everybody everything at once. And that story I just shared with you about him and Floyd in the plan they hash in Floyd's Kitchen, well, eat pop brownies, is my guess, was five years ago, and to this day between then and now, 50 Cent has promoted a grand total of zero

boxing events because he's stupid and he can't slow down. And that's all I said. And you want to think that would hurt a guy's feelings like that, right? I don't know what part of that wasn't accurate. You would think he would thank me like, oh my God, Chea, you're so smart.

I'm so stupid. And, you know, would you help me out a little more? That's what you think. That's what you think you would get Aero, but no. Instead, 50 had to come at Shale P. Yeah, that seems like it was a mistake. I see him coming out. Yeah, that doesn't, that doesn't seem like a smart move, does it? No, no. And then his, his Instagram

is just annoying. It's like 15 black photos. Like, what is this? There's nothing on it. Like, what are you trying to prove? Oh, he was he was sentenced to out over the weekend that didn't even make sense. You know, it was misspelled and punctuation was off. He kept saying, get the strap.

And then he was saying, get the strap to guys that weren't even entitled fights that weren't part of the tar. It was just very bizarre. He's a very bizarre guy. All right. Well, we'll leave it at that. Chale, great to catch up. I'm sorry we couldn't see you.

But this was a lot of fun. We covered a lot of ground, I thought. Go boom. There he is. Chale Sondon. It's not quite the same effect when you can't. can't do it with the, you know, with the, with the screen, but it's still, it's still fun nonetheless. Great stuff from Chale, like I said, covered a lot of ground. Always interesting to hear

everyone's take on the situation. And yeah, unfortunately, I was trying to juggle a few things there in the middle of that interview, but I did hear from someone close to Raquel who said that they kind of got caught in traffic there in terms of air traffic and their, their journey home. and it doesn't look like she's going to be able to jump on, which is unfortunate. You know why I hate those Brazil events the most? It's because most people can't get out until Sunday night, and then there's a long journey home. It's usually at least 10 hours just to get to the United States.

And then depending on where you live, it's a connection, it's a couple hours at the airport, and then it's another three, four, five hours. And so you're not home by Monday afternoon as opposed to the Sunday afternoon, and then you're trying to squeeze someone in. So always when I'm booking this show, it's always tough for those Brazil events because I'm always worried that people are going to either be delayed

or too tired or in the air, caught up. And it looks like we got bid on this one. So still efforting, maybe possibly sort of, to hear from someone. I'd love to hear from someone involved in that story. If not, hopefully we'll hear from her throughout the week and maybe even next week. I also wanted to mention yesterday I put out that Yeyere Rodriguez was going to be on the program.

Unfortunately, this morning I woke up to the news that Yeir Rodriguez will not be on the program. It was hard to get him on the program. And apparently he had a change of heart after his release from the UFC. Of course, a lot has been happening in his life since last week. So I understand that there's a lot of stress. I understand that his life has somewhat been turned upside down. really wanted to hear from him and get his side of the story because this is a shocking development. A year ago, this guy is about to fight Frankie Edgar and seems like he's maybe

one fight away, one win away from fighting for the belt, and now he's out of the promotion. I know that almost every promotion under the sun outside of the UFC is interested in having him thought it would be good to hear his side, thought it would be good to hear what happened, thought it would be good to see if he has any plans next, but unfortunately he had a change of heart. so we await word from Yeir Rodriguez, maybe next week as well. So apologies for that. They were all in and these things happened. Not as much as you would think they happened.

We've had a good run. But unfortunately, that happened today. Still very happy about today's lineup. And one of the reasons why I'm happy is because of our next guest, he is headlining UFC Fight Night Chile this Saturday, UFC's first event in Santiago, Chile. In fact, he just landed there himself. He's kind enough to join us as.

As always, very excited to talk to Damien Maya, who's on the phone. Damien, how are you? How are you doing, Ariel? It's a pleasure, as always, to talk to you. You just flew in today, right? Yes. We just arrived a couple hours ago, and we had a lunch, and not too much to lunch, and then I'm here, you know, talking through you.

How long is the trip from Brazil to Chile? Normally, it's like four hours, around four hours, but on the way to here, we stopped. We had a layover, a quick layover in Assumption in Paraguay. I never was there before. So it took a little bit longer. Have you ever been to Santiago? Yeah, I been here a couple, two times.

Actually, I came. It was back in, I think, 2014 with my family, my kids and my wife, and just for vacation for about a week. We went to Santiago and then Evina del Mar, Eval Paraiso and then we came again, I think it was 2015, Edward and I to promote

USC in Chile because it was pretty new and USC was thinking about come here and also there was the TV deals here for Latin America so we came here to help to promote

actually not just the U.S.C. but I'm going to hear and kind of teach the media here because they didn't know what was there. Could you tell us how you ended up on this card? Of course, we know about Santiago-Ponzini Bion, but ultimately, why did you agree to take this fight on short notice? You know, there is not just one reason. I think we started negotiations with the Eurc. They really need me here. and of course was not perfect for me because it's a short notice and you know the guy that I'm fighting is a pre-test guy and there was you know few things I think

one thing you know is that I start the promotion here like they said three years ago and it's nice to come here and do the first event here for the fans here and for the first time in in

in all South America outside Brazil and you know we did we do our deal with USC and we

we do our contract and so we we we decide to come and are you okay with this or is it kind of a tough scenario for you? Are you a little

are you almost taking the fight begrudgingly like yes you wanted to get the new contract and everything but it's not ideal for you No, I'm not. I'm, I'm, I'm happy. UFC is happy. I think everything is set up right now. And, you know, for me, it's a big challenge for sure.

But, you know, I'm thinking that I want to fight this year, maybe next year I finish this fight in my contract because, you know, I love to fight and I'm still performing well during training camps. but I don't know if I will still fighting after next year. So this is pretty much, you know, this could be my last contract with the UFC and then after that I'm retired. Oh, and how many fights is it? Four fights.

Okay, so you're thinking maybe these four fights and that's it. Yeah, I think so. I think so. Not because, you know, I don't like or I don't enjoy. of course I love, but I need almost 11 years in this game, you know, in the U.S.C. And it's a lot of commitment, a lot of pressure. And also, you know, I want to have different projects that I like to do. And I want to, you know, change a little bit, do some changes.

So, you know, be able to be a little bit more with family and kids and give more time for them also. And just curious, your last two fights were against similar opponents, right? Two wrestlers, Colby, Tyron. Do you like the challenge now of maybe trying to rectify this, trying to, you know, write the wrong? Or are you worried that, you know, these are just matchups that are tough for you? Yeah, I know, of course, this matchup, you know, very good wrestlers are tough for me.

But, you know, it's a challenge that I know I can overcome. that. I know, you know, I did that before, you know, I fought the wrestlers before. But that was the guy to fight right now. That was the challenge. And I think he's, for me, probably the biggest challenge right now in, in, maybe in the top guys in the division, one or one of the biggest. So, you know, let's go. I'm here. I want to stop one day. I want to look back and see that, you know, I had the, you know, I had the, the, you know, come and face the challenge. And that will be important from you one day.

So not just thinking about winning, losing, or, you know, don't take a fight because you don't want to, how can I say, you don't want to risk your reputation. But I think, you know, it's a fight that is a risky fight, but, you know, it's a good challenge. and that's what made me, you know, come to here, and that's what's going to make me, you know, keep going in my life even after, you know, I retired the challenges. Some people have told me that Camaro is the most avoided fighter in the UFC.

No one wants to fight him. The U.S. he has a hard time finding opponents for him. Do you feel like that's warranted? Do you think he's that good, or do you feel like this is a bit of hype? I think there's both, you know. Every time that, and I'd be in this position before, when you never lose, when your record is clear,

you know, of course, people are avoiding you, and I've been in this position before. But his stuff, his death is not just hype, you know. There's a little bit of fight, of course, but he's pretty tough, you know, and he showed that in his previous fights. What's the path to victory in your mind? Could you give us any insight?

I'm sorry? What do you think is the path to victory? When you watch this guy, where do you see holes in his game that you're looking to exploit? You know, I saw some stuff, but it's hard to say before. I think I will feel during the fight, but right now I don't see nothing really clear that I can tell.

I see something that I cannot tell. You do see something, though. Yeah, yeah, of course. Every fighter has. Wow, that is fascinating. And you've watched a lot of his film? Yeah, not a lot, because, you know, I know I like to watch the fight of my opponent, but not, you know, I don't watch like crazy, like every day, so I watch a few fights. and because the fight was in short notice,

and I didn't have time to watch all his fights, but, you know, I watch some of his fights. Damien, I wish you the best. I can't wait for this fight. Kudos to you for stepping up, and congratulations on the new contract. Looking forward to it this Saturday from Santiago, Chile. Damien Maher versus Kamaro Usman.

What a great fight it is. And again, much props to you for taking the fight on short notice. Thank you very much here, and I hope you should see you soon again. and so I will be, you know, after this fight, someone will be again. I want to be again in New York to wrestling training. So maybe I have to say hi. Absolutely. You're welcome anytime.

We look forward to it. Good luck on Saturday. Thank you very much. Bye-bye. All right. There's Damien Maya this Saturday main event in Chile. I told you moments ago it didn't look like we'd be able to talk to Raquel Pennington. In fact, I was not telling the truth.

She is very kind enough to be joining us. I can't thank her enough. Don't want to waste her time anymore. So let us go to the phone lines and say hello to Raquel Pennington. Raquel, are you there? Hey, what's up? Hey, Raquel, thank you so much for doing this. I really appreciate it.

I know you're super busy or traveling, so this means the world. As you can imagine, we've been talking about you all show long with all kinds of different people, but to hear from you is very special. So thanks so much for doing this. First, most importantly, how are you feeling right now? How is your health? You know, I feel really good. The medical care in Brazil was a really rough experience, so we tried to rush home to the state

so that way I could get proper medical care with looking at my leg and stuff like that because I think that in the first round, that first kick that I took, she nailed the exact spot that I previously broke my leg in, and the minute that I went to go stand up, it felt like my leg was broke again. So, you know, it was an injury that I was trying to weather through, and in Brazil, I mean, we got zero answers after the fight and I was in the ER for five hours waiting for it. So I just made the decision to hurry up and get back home. So I'm kind of bouncing around from doctor's appointments today.

So you don't know what the state of the leg is right now? You don't know how severely hurt it is? Yeah, we have no clue. I'm getting x-rays and MRI in about 45 minutes. Okay, and how about your face? It looked like your nose was obviously bleeding a long. Did you break your nose? Did you suffer any other injury?

My nose looked worse than what it is. It was a cut just right on the bridge of my nose that needed three stitches. And that's it. No other damage to your face. No, you know, I mean, Amanda, she's a tough fighter. And it was, overall, it was a fun fight. It was a rough fight. Just given right off the bat in the first round, she caught my leg.

But, you know, I mean, I'm pretty tough myself and everything else that she had to offer wasn't pays me too much. It was just the excruciating pain from the leg injury that it really wot my ass. And you were feeling that in rounds two, three, four, and five. You felt it right away that something was off? I felt at the minute I stood back up. She, as soon as it made contact with my leg and my leg went out from underneath me, as soon as I try to stand back up, it felt the exact same way when I originally broke it. And so it was a kind of a terrifying feeling, just given the fact that I still had about 24 minutes left in a fight. And then she nailed it a second time.

And that pain that just sunk in made me want to throw up. So, yeah, I mean, it was from the very get-go. Wow. And do you think she was targeting that? Not to say that she was dirty or anything, but, you know, that's her game. But do you think she knew where you were hurt and was going after that? You know, everybody knew where I was hurt. And, I mean, whether that was her game plan or not, she did, she executed a plan that she needed to do.

And, you know, I mean, we're very aware that Amanda throws kicks like that anyways. I expected her kicks to be a little bit higher. So the fact that she went towards the calf was a little bit more surprising. But, I mean, it's a fight. Okay. And now obviously the moment that everyone has been talking about and weighing in on, in between the fourth and fifth round, we saw on television that you told your corner, you stood up and turned around and said, I'm done, I want to be done.

How difficult was it for you to actually say that? because we know how tough you are. We know what you've been through throughout your life, in terms of your back, your leg recently, and all the fights you've been through to actually say that, how difficult was that for you? You know, I'm actually proud of my coaches. I know a lot of people are going against what they said

and thinking all this different stuff, and it's easy to judge, but you never know what's happening in that moment. And at the end of the day, my coaches know me best. They know my toughness, and they know what I can handle. And I trust my coaches with everything that I have,

and I know they wouldn't put me in a situation that I can't handle. I was going through a moment where I was obviously frustrated because of the fact with my leg, I was scared to step in and actually let my hands go because the minute I would start to close the distance, Amanda would attack the leg. So it was easier for me to stay on the outside to evade any more leg kicks to try to avoid that pain. And it was easier for me to stay up against the cage to where I had some back support to be able to constantly lift my legs. You know, and my other legs started taking the damage.

But leg kicks, I mean, I've taken so much damage. and other fights I've taken, I've done so much conditioning and practice to where those things don't phase me. But it was just, you know, those initial kicks really got me to a point to where I started a break for a second. And the minute that I turned around, I told my coaches that, and then I actually turned around, looked at my head coach and looked him in the eyes. I knew I still had it within me. But, you know, there just comes a point where you just make a decision. And in the fifth round, it just, we were on the ground. I had butterfly guard.

Sorry, it's really windy here. I had a butterfly guard, but it just really felt like my knee was going to explode. There was just too much pain, so I couldn't really work from anything onto the ground. And it was a frustrating point for me, and then she popped up, she dropped an elbow. And I was like, you know what, it's just, it's enough. So less than two days later, you agree with your coach's decision to say, no, let's go out there and fight. There are no hard feelings there. I agreed with my coaches as soon as the fight was done. I agreed

with them in that moment because at the end of the day, the ball is still in my court. I could have easily waved off the fight. I could have bent down and tapped out, but I chose not to. I chose to pull my head on my ass basically and not give up on myself because at the end of the day, when you give up, that's a whole different ballgame there, you know, quitting found an option in that aspect. And in that moment, I was quitting on myself, and that's when a coach stepped in and they push their athlete. Would you have been mad at him if he actually listened to you? Do you feel like it's something that you would have regretted if they actually waved it off

when you told them that you were done? I would have been, yeah, I would have been mad and I would have been more mad at myself. So I'm glad that my coaches didn't let me give up on myself. It's a weird timing thing because we don't always hear what's going on in the corner. Did you tell your coaches leading up to that point about your leg? Did they know how severely injured it was? Yeah, they knew. they could tell from the minute that it happened

and every time I sat down in between rounds it took everything I had to stand back up from that stool. So they were aware why I guess because the reason I'm asking that is because I said that ultimately we know about the relationship but I was wondering why your coach never asked you

why you wanted out because you are so tough I would imagine that's not a common thing for you to say so I was wondering if they knew the state of your leg when you said that. Yeah they know exactly. Exactly. Like I said, I mean, your coaches know you best. And I have a coaching staff that they're just not my coaches. You know, they're my friends, my brothers. They're everything to me, every relationship that you can think possible. We're a family outside of this. And I know that they have my best interests at heart. And they know me in the gym, especially better than I know myself sometimes. And in that moment, it was no secret. Like, they knew what was going on. They were putting the ice on there in between rounds and, you know, just really trying to uplift. my spirits to keep pushing. But that was a tough one. That kick was a game changer. I really thought my leg was in a different shape than what it was in, but I think Amanda just, she nailed it perfect.

How long have you been with this coaching staff? I've been with my coaching staff since 2012. Okay, so it has been some time. It's been almost, I guess you would say around six years. I'm curious because one thing that a lot of people have also brought up is you have to know the fighter, right? It's hard for us to weigh in when we don't know the relationship. And they say, look, a lot of fighters, they say they want out during sparring. They say they don't want to come to sparring. This is kind of the relationship. Are you that kind of fighter that you need to be nudged?

Are you the kind of fighter who, you know, fourth round in sparring? You say I don't want to do it, but then your coach sends you back out there and you're happy. You don't strike me as that kind of person, but just curious, just to try to get the lay of the land here. Is that the kind of relationship that you do have with your coach? You know, I'm the type of athlete that I like to be pushed. And there's sometimes that I can go in the gym and I might be tired. I might be lazy or sometimes it's just, you know what I mean? This sport is a grind and it's not always easy.

And whether it was fighting, whether it was basketball, whatever sport it was for me, I've always liked my coaches to push me sometimes further than I'll even push myself. And that's what makes me really go, you know. So it's kind of just in practice, I don't do those things. they know the different gears that I have with me. And so they'll keep pushing me and making things better. And so it was just kind of, you know, in that moment, they knew. They knew just to push me because I wasn't done.

I still had it in me. And they knew not to let me give up on myself because I'd be more mad at myself. Have you ever been in that position before where you said that you wanted out of a fight and your coach said no or you thought about saying that, has this ever happened to you before in your actual, fighting career, not in training, but in an actual fight? No, never, you know? I mean, of course you're going to have fights and every fight's going to be a battle and it's

going to be a war. This one, you know, and a lot of people are bringing up ring rust and saying whatever it is that you can go behind it. But it had nothing to do with that. I felt 100% confident going into this fight. I felt great about everything. You had a phenomenal camp. Like I said, I mean, when you're out there and I have a high pain tolerance, I'm durable, is hill and it was just my leg like you know it the minute that she hit it is the way that it felt it just it was a game changer and uh for me pure heart came out in that fight because i went and pushed through the rest of those rounds knowing that most likely my leg is broken again and i was going to

just have to grind and you know you're never going to understand that unless you're in the person's shoes. Are you able to walk on on your two legs now or do you need crutches? Everybody's been helping me around. I've been using a wheelchair to get from in my travel. And then now we're once we get to the dock, we'll see what they say. But even when I broke my leg the first time, my every broken bone I've ever experienced in my life when I broke my back, my first reaction, I jumped up and tried to walk. Like I just, my pain tolerance, my durability is one of a kind. And so, you know, it's hard for me sometimes to be like, my coaches will be like, are you injured or are you just sore? And I'm like, I don't ever know because I really honestly

can't read my body just because I can take so much pain. So, you know, the first time I broke my leg, I did the same thing. I stood back up and I walked to the vehicle. And then they took me the hospital and we got to the hospital and it went from there and it was the same thing. I mean, I took that freaking kick and I stood back up and I could fill it and I took that second kick and I wanted to just throw up and then it was just going from there, but I had adrenaline and everything else pumping through me. And of course, I just want to reiterate to you because this was the first thing I said on the show today. I don't think anyone should use this to criticize you. I don't think this is an indictment on you. Anyone who thinks less of you because you said

that is insane. The fact that you stood in a cage and fought and you do this for a living continuously, to me, you possess a different kind of DNA. I think MMA fighters are the most courageous athletes on this planet, so I don't think there's anything to be ashamed of here. In fact, I wish it was more common that fights could be

stopped in between rounds, but in our sport, it seems to be a taboo thing. So I just want to make that clear. I don't think anyone's coming after you or thinking that you're a quitter or thinks less of you as a fighter, if you know what I'm saying. No, I appreciate that. And you know what? I will always keep my head up high because at the end of the day,

there's very few of us who are out there chasing our dream. And just the fact that we step into that oxygen, all of us are champions. It's not easy, but we do. The lifestyle that we live is not easy and the courage it takes. And it's easy for people to make judgments and say different things, but the fact of what we put our minds, bodies,

and everything else through, I mean, those are true warriors. We're all true warriors. Could I ask, how are your coaches handling this? You know, they're not usually involved in a situation like this?

Are they handling it okay? Are they taking this personally? Are they upset? Do they want to say anything? How are they handling it? Oh, you know, my coaches are pretty emotional about the whole thing. They're just as emotionally invested in this as I am. And it's not something that's easy on them,

and especially when people are coming up and making the comments and stuff. And me and my head coach, we had a talk, and he's like, you know I have your best interest at heart. Like, I love you, like you're my daughter. I would never put you in a moment. bad situation and I'm the one that had to talk him out of things because he was pretty devastated and I told him you you pushed me to be the better athlete you didn't let me give up on myself because if I gave up on myself it would be a whole different ballgame and so the fact that you

were there for me because you know me best in these situations like I couldn't be more proud and so you know they're they're struggling but uh they just have to keep their heads up too because at the end of the day they're a hell of a coaching staff and I live them all And you said you had to talk him out of doing something. What did you have to talk him out of? Well, I'm just saying emotionally. I have to lift his spirits for him because it's an emotional call on him too. You know, it's not something that's easy for anybody.

It's the same thing when I coach Tisha. I know the risks that play into this, but it's not easy. It's not an easy sport, whether you're a coach, whether you're just a teammate, or whether you're the actual fighter. Like, there's emotions everywhere. Do you regret saying that? Do you regret telling your coach that I'm done? You know, I mean, I had a moment and sometimes, but I also like to verbally express myself

and I'm very close with my coaches and I tell them everything. And, you know, in that moment, I obviously needed their encouragement for a second. So no, because if I would have held it in, I feel like it would have been a different ballgame for the second, but the fact that I talked to them and then I got their words and I looked into their eyes and that trusting bond was there, like it gave me the courage to go back in and do what I needed to do. And by the way, was there a reason why you turned around and said it? I was wondering if maybe you didn't want people to hear it or see it on camera,

you turned around and sit at your corner. Was there a reason for that? Well, so my coaches like to alternate when they come into the octagon. And the one that was in there with me, I told him that and he was like, no, don't give up on yourself, a lot. But my head coach was standing behind me. He came in the round before that. So that's when I turned around and looked at him.

And he's the one that talked to me. So, no, I had nothing to do with hiding anything. There's nothing to hide. I mean, you're in there. You're going to war, and you have people there who are in your corner for a reason. And so, no, it was just because he was on the outside and I needed to talk to him. Okay. How would you describe the level of pain that you're in right?

Are you an excruciating amount of pain still? Oh, hell yeah. The experience in Brazil was terrible. I got zero pain meds while I was out there. You know, my nose, everybody's like freaking out about my nose, but my nose looked a lot worse on TV. Everything always looks worse on TV than what it really is. I just needed some stitches, and they weren't even going to stitch my nose in their emergency room. I sat there and was bleeding for about five hours until Tisha finally flipped out in the emergency room and told the doctors that they needed to do something.

Two different doctors came in and was looking at my nose, deciding whether or not they needed to stitch it when clearly it needed to be stitched. We just got zero answers And then they wanted me to turn around and stay in Brazil for two extra days For who knows why And I told them the hell with that I needed to come home and get the proper medical treatment Because I need to know what's going on with my leg Yeah

Is it fair to say you're not fighting in Brazil anytime soon again No I mean I'm always game for whatever But right now my health is more important And so just going to figure out what's going on and then set that road to recovery and Tisha's up next for an awesome fight. So I'll go back into coaching mode. And two last quick things.

Has the UFC been helpful throughout this process? The post-fight process that you said was frustrating. Do you feel like they were helping you? You know, I mean, I don't think anybody was really aware of it. I talked to Donna a lot, and she was just like, why didn't somebody go with you at a hospital in this side or another? And I don't think everybody was realizing a lot of stuff that was happening. Now that everybody, it came to light about the whole situation. They did awesome at getting my flight change, getting things sped up so that way I can get home faster.

And as soon as I landed back here in Colorado, all my doctor's appointments were already lined up so that way I can get checked out and stuff. So, I mean, that aspect has been awesome. Okay. That is great to hear. Last thing for you is the message to everyone, Raquel, including to people like me, calm the hell down. You are at peace with this. You're okay with this. You're happy.

They made you fight in the fifth round. They said, no, go out there. Is the message to just everyone chill out and keep the relationship between you two? That is it. You guys know each other and you're at peace with everything. Is that essentially what it boils down to here? Yeah, everybody needs to relax. The fight to fight.

And at the end of the day, we have our coaching staff. I've taken years to build up trust with my coaching staff. and I know that I have awesome people in my corner. You know, like I said, it's not an easy sport to go through and do. And sometimes things go your way. Sometimes things don't go your way. At the end of the day, it was a fucking awesome opportunity. And I'm proud that knowing what I went through in the first round that I freaking hung in there for as long as I did.

And I'm proud of my coaches for being there for me and to keep pushing me and not let me give up on myself. Because at the end of the day, quitting like that on yourself would have been, would have been more brutal than actually my coaches, you know, if they were to sat there and threw the towel in instead of actually let me make the decision that I made in the fifth round. So, you know, I mean, stop judging from the outside because you'll never understand what goes on unless you're in our shoes and in our positions. Much respect to you, Raquel. Thank you so much for doing this, and I hope you get well soon. And, of course, thanks for coming on and squeezing us in and clearing the air here.

I hope it's not too serious of an injury that you're dealing with with your leg. And looking forward to seeing you back in there sooner rather than later. Of course, good luck to Tisha in July as well. Really appreciate you doing this. Thanks so much. Thank you. I appreciate it. Okay, there she is.

Raquel Pennington. Great to hear from her. You now have heard her side of the story. And there you have it. Fascinating stuff there from Raquel Pennington, saying that she is at peace with it. She is happy that they pushed her to go out there. I don't think anyone knew the severity of her leg injury,

but that is certainly a very interesting tidbit to learn. And that, you know, we've seen that before with other injuries where it's targeted. I don't think there's anything wrong with that as far as Amanda Nune is concerned. But to hear Raquel Pennington, once again, someone who is so tough, who has been through so much, who has overcome a back injury, a broken back, to hear someone who very recently almost lost her leg. Remember she was on the show last? She talked about almost getting her, having to have her leg amputated to hear her say those words. And then to hear her say that she felt like throwing up, her leg was hurting so much dating back to the first.

round is I mean those aren't those aren't the kind of words that you expect to hear out of her because she has this reputation of being so tough again as I said to New York Rick Danny we were talking before the show 100% respect where she's coming from respect that she's coming on and I hope that the coaching staff doesn't take it personal we're all kind of weighing in on a sport and and this is the kind of thing that happens in a big sport when you're weighing in on a Monday morning after something that happened over the weekend, polling other coaches and seeing the way maybe things could have happened. Maybe they knew about the leg.

Maybe they didn't still have some questions about it all. And I would love to talk to their coaches. I'd love to talk to her coaches, the whole staff. I'd love to hear their side and the psychology behind it all. But it is certainly an interesting debate that I think will continue for at least the next few days and will be a part of the sport for quite some time. So can't thank her enough for coming on and giving us her side because at the end of the day, that's that's most important here hopefully she is not too injured hopefully she'll be back out there

sooner rather than later all right uh let us move along big fight coming up this uh july 6th summertime las vegas the night before ufc 26 tough finale it's brad tavaras against one israel adisania the last stylebender he's back on the program we've been trying to get him on for the last two weeks since this fight was announced but we have located mr adasania he joins us via the magic of Skype, and I do believe he's driving. Are you driving, Israel? Yeah, man, I'm just on my way to the gym right now. Okay, is this safe?

Am I distracting you? Yeah. Are you good? I'm like two minutes away. I'm on the on round. I'm on off ramp right now. Okay. Well, thanks for joining us.

It's great to talk to you again, and I appreciate you doing this in the morning. How did we get to Brad Tavares? I personally was surprised that this was your third opponent. How did it end up being Brad Tavares? Wait, why were you surprised? I thought my, if I was playing matchmaker, I said, Israel-A-Sanya is such a big star, has such great star potential.

Let's give him 10 opponents where we could just showcase him. The boxing route, right? Let's just turn this guy into a highlight reel and give him all kinds of great opponents. And let's be honest, Brad Taviris is the toughest opponent that you have faced us far on the UFC. I didn't see the need to do this fight so soon. Not to say that I don't think you could beat him. I just feel like let's build the guy up. Let's get a whole host of highlights.

Yeah, Def, we can still do a highlight against Brad, and we can still showcase against him. It's no problem. Yeah, the fight kind of just came about at the end of my last fight because he fought on the same card. And yeah, I got word that he called me out, but I didn't really see it. I didn't really hear it.

I think maybe the UFC might have pushed him a little bit to try and get the fight with me or build a little hype or something. But it made sense. And I think two days prior, I said I already picked my next opponent. So that's three for three now. I just saw my breakfast one day with his team because Ray Sefer knows some people on my team as well, because we come from the same school. And I said, what's up to him?

Shrker's hand. And I just, I don't know. I just like, I just want to fight this guy. I just feel like he's, yeah, like he said, he's tough. He's good. And I want to fight the best. And he's a good fight for me right now to test my skills in the UFC. Okay.

So that was the guy you had in mind when you said you had an apartment. opponent in mind, that was the guy? It was just right after breakfast. And it was nothing bad. It was just, I just think he's good. He's been around a long time. He's a bit of a name, a little bit. So, yeah, and he's tough.

So I want to take him out and prove that, yeah, I'm not here to be messed with. Nah, still, the UFC are being nice to me, I think. It's not like, I think they're helping me out in the way that I get to choose my points. Like I said, it's three-for-three now. And they don't even know they're doing it. But for me, it's what, Rob Wilkinson? Then I saw, what's his name, Marvin backstage after the UFC 219.

And now Brad, so, yeah, I'd already pick my next fight after this. But I got to take care of Brad first. But, yeah, I just keep picking and choosing. It's like a buffet for me. Could you give us a hint as to who that next person is? I want the window of Uriah Hall and the Brazilian kid. Paulo Costa? Yeah, I want to.

the winner of you of that fight and I want to stare that with them in the cage right after it. I think that would be epic. Have you expressed this to the UFC? I've said in interviews, but I'll tell McMander when I see him and I'll let Dana and I'll give him a text after my fight because it's the next night. So I'll be caged side at 226, I think it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I want to, I think it'll be cool, you know, whoever wins, step in a cage with them face off. Yeah, we'll get the train going, get the hype train going for that fight.

Any particular reason why? I got to think I'm Brad first. Sure, sure, of course. Any particular reason why? Same thing. I think they both rank or one of them is ranked. It's a big fight. A lot of hype behind the Brazilian kid in the U.I Halls. He's like Brad Tavares where he's a name in the sport that people know. But he's never really hit his full potential. And I feel, yeah, both good fights for me as well stylistically.

So, yeah, take care of Brad first. And Brad, I think it's going to be easier than my last opponent, just because I've seen that style many times. I've read that stuff so many times. Like, it's nothing to me. My last opponent, Marvin Vittori, was awkward, weird, southward. And I was able to read things on the fly on them. So, yeah, Brad, I've seen that style many, many times. So it's going to be easier to read this book.

So do you get bothered when I say, like, oh, they should build you up more? It's too soon to fight someone like Brad to Barrett's. you feel like I'm insulting you when I say that? That's a bad time. Sorry, we lost you there for the beginning. Did you hear my question? Yeah, I heard your question. No, I'm not bothered.

I mean, like I said, it's just your opinion. But the blueprint's always nice, you know, and I feel like I'm still doing my own blueprint. But the way I fight, my skill set, my background, the way my stock is rising in the game, it's like it's hard to keep feeding me guys that I know my, that are in the same. same kind of echelon as me, which I don't really feel that there is yet.

But yeah, it's like I said, Brad's a good fight, good test. And it'll be my toughest test to date. So I'll get past them and we'll move forward. Okay. How would you assess your performance now? A couple weeks later, how would you assess your performance against Marvin? You said that you think that Brad might be easier than Marvin because he was awkward. Were you disappointed with your performance?

I was right after the fight. But in hindsight, I'm glad everything happened the way it happened. even though I don't know if you guys saw it on Fox but on the fight pass you can see like when they were going to commercial I was talking to my coach and I was like man I feel great I can go two more rounds and I looked in the camera I was like any day I can go five rounds

and here it is five rounds but I don't think we're going to need five rounds for this fight wow what are you thinking I just talk like I mean look at Brad the way he's fought his last fight was his first finish in seven years um his train isn't as durable as Marvin and I don't really like to say things like that because no one has a chin. Everyone has a button. It's just how you can find that button.

And his button with his style, his stance, is easier to find than Marvin's button. So when you say you don't think it's going five rounds, do you think it goes one? Do you think it goes to the second round? I'll give it less than three. Less than three. Less than three rounds. It's just the way he likes to throw. He's from Hawaii. He's a heavy guy when he throws. He's a, he's a, he's a heavy guy when he throws. he's a scrapper so we can scrap have you ever I haven't looked at your your full resume have you ever fought in Vegas

not yet first time made event yes that's not bad all my close friends who I've been to Vegas I was at Mayweather pack out with and all this stuff like I've said it for years I was like when I come back here I'm going to have my

face up there I'm going to be the guy headlining the card so it's good It's kind of like a cool moment for me that being my first fight in Vegas, I'm going to headline it. So, yeah, you got to step back and just smell the roses once in a while and then get back to work. So you have to fight. I'll smell the roses a little bit and then back to work. So you've actually been to Vegas. You went to Mayweather Pacquiao?

You were there in person? So, funny story. I was there in person. My coaches got tickets, but that was around the time I was helping Rumble train for Jones before she happened. And I was there, but you couldn't show the fight anywhere on the strip, apart from the MGM. And you had to pay like 500 bucks. And I was like, nah, fuck that. I still have, I didn't really have that much at the time.

So I tried to go off the strip. And all the lines for the taxis were like, I think, a two-hour wait. And I'm like, fuck, how are we going to watch this? And then I try to watch it online, try to stream it illegally. But it wouldn't work because everyone else is trying to do the same thing. So it was lagging. But so what I did, ingenuity. I Skype my house back in New Zealand in my living room

While my flatmates were watching it And I watched it from my hotel in Vegas Wow I came all the way to Vegas to watch the Ikea fight in my own living room Which I think was smart on my part But yeah it was still I watched the fight Enjoyed it, it was good fight

And yeah that night I just I didn't even party I just sat down like Floating Mike Scarface So I haven't have a post about it but Yeah Fun story That's amazing Now did they charge you? Did they make you pay?

a piece of the pay-per-view price? Or was it free over there where they were watching? Yeah, you pay pay-paper-view definitely, but my flatmate's already paid to watch it. So I just like, yo, I Skype and I was like, turn the lap up to the TV. And they did, and that's how I watched the flight. How was the connection?

It was better than watching it because... Good. It was a good connection. So there was no pixelation, no lagging, no of that. And so you say now that, like, you've been plotting, this was a bucket list item for you to main event to show in Las Vegas. This is something you wanted? Yeah, and I, when I was in New York, when I was in Times School, I saw the same thing again.

You can see everyone's faces, all these other things, movie posters, and I was like, yeah, one of the things I keep hearing about the state taxes. God damn it, I heard about these state taxes that they take from you and then federal tax as well. But MSG is historical, and one of my teammates just fought a boxing fight there on the, I think, Lomachenko, undercard as well, baby Nancy. so yeah, I got to put my foot there. I got to make my stamp in MSG one day. And that's another one that's in the future. So maybe the next one you want there. So you fight in July and then maybe November when they're going back.

If they go, hey, I'm right here, baby. I'm coming through. Yeah, yeah. I'm happy you brought that up because you were in New York and you shunned us. I mean, you were literally blocks away from our studio. You're such a big timer. I can't get you. Jeez, Louise.

I can't. Man, hey, I'm through Hollywood right now. don't talk to me. You see my jacket. You see my fur jacket. I mean, I see everything. You're pearly whites. You're living the dream over there. And that's exactly where I wanted to go next. What is life like now? We talked to after the first one. What is life like now? Two fights in. I keep the same energy aerial all the time. It's just I stay who I am. But it's the people around you and the life around you that's trying to change. But for me, like I said, I keep my circle small. And I don't really, I don't really fuck with anyone else.

You know, it's just people are weird, man. As soon as you get like some clout, people start to like change up on you because they feel like they can kind of get some of that. And even people that you've known for years. So it's kind of weird for me. Like it exposes, like the same money exposes the character that was jailed by poverty. There's that. That's true. I agree.

But it also exposes like a lot of fake shit around you, a lot of like weirdness around you. So yeah, for me, I understand this is this is part of the. gig and I said you know you can't complain about having a lot of your plate when you've been planning to eat so I'm eating great now and yeah I just have to keep that same energy and keep doing me do what got me to the dance so I can evolve but I'll never change up my energy stays the same so you feel a difference though you can notice that people try to treat you differently wow yeah do you notice it more after the second fight than the first fight like you do you sense it building or do you notice it from just back in February and it's the exact same?

It's more after the second fight and it's going to even be more after this fight as well. And it's just can you keep going. So, I mean, I have a job to do as whoop ass and entertain and people have a job to do where they feel like they want to get you, you know, like on the Snapchat or their media stuff or whatever. But I just feel if you treat more respect, I'll treat you a respect. I've already had a few incidences where people kind of, feel like they own you and I'm like I'm not the one you want to play with

you know I might be the public lightenap you know yeah people just kind of get weird like I feel like once they see someone with some clouds someone they see on TV like their manners and respect go out the window and they just feel like they can own your space and it's like yo I'm having dinner with

a lady right now can you fuck off kindly? Yeah yeah yeah yeah it's just like I mean it's how you approach you can't just come to the table like oh my god I'm a big fan can I get a photo while you're in the middle of a conversation, you know, is ways to approach someone. And sometimes you can just, you know, appreciate it from afar. You don't really have to take a photo because I don't, like, it's weird when you're on this

side. I don't, I see a lot of celebrities now. I don't even ask for photos because I feel I can, I don't want to like interrupt their floor, whatever they're doing. So I just, like a flower, just look from a far and appreciate it. Yes, that's a good lesson, especially when you're in the bathroom. That's really weird, right? Someone wants to shake your hand.

I mean, it's just, it's just. My hands are wet. I want to get my jizz all over you. Stop. When do you come to Las Vegas? Are you doing your whole camp in New Zealand? Yeah, whole camp's right here. I don't need to go anywhere.

We go all we need right here. But we might come, I think, maybe a little bit earlier just to get used to the weather, the climate and all that stuff. Excuse me. But, yeah, at the moment, New Zealand's where it's at. That's where my camp is, where my crew is. So we get it done here. All right.

Well, I'm looking forward to it. You know, I'm sorry for saying that I thought maybe, you know, they should slow their role, so to speak. But what the hell do I know? Sorry. Okay. Hey, things happen. I don't mind. This might be even going slow for me, but you know.

This is too slow. Are they treating you well? The UFC, are you happy with them? Honestly, when you're outside the UFC, they talk about I understand there's a union that needs to be formed and all that stuff

and they talk about how the fighters need to get treated but for me my personal experience there have been nothing but cool as fuck to me

like staff behind the scenes they tell you they'll be here at this time they'll prompt you they'll let you know and they're just so helpful

like they're on a tight ship very very tight ship very tall like I've fought all over the world I've fought even for companies like glory and they're not even on the level not even close can't even hold a candle

to the professionalism and the way the UFC run the ship. But right now they've been doing good to me, so that's what I'm going to say. They've been, yeah, they've been wonderful to me. But you think a union should be formed? At some point, yeah. I mean, I understand, you know, like, there's levels to the stuff. And, you know, it's like, you know, it's like,

you shall not be named or what shouldn't be talked about. But at some point, definitely for the betterment of the sport, and I think for the growth of the fighters as well, because I was, you know, I've been a fighter for a long time. And there was times where I'm fighting and working a full-time job as well. I'm fighting all over the world. So we're the best athletes in the world area. We should be getting paid good money.

And I'm getting paid good money, but. Waiting for it to unlock here. Sometimes when he's back. But. Okay, we lost. Yeah, because I think someone called you. That's what happens, right? No one calls me.

Oh, wow. That's weird. You said, I'm getting paid good, but, and then, and then we lost. you. I'm getting paid good, but there was times when I was working a full-time job and fighting around the world, you know, but as the best, I feel like MMA athletes are the best athletes in the world. The amount of work we have to do to get to that cage, that octagon, you know, we should be getting paid, you know, what we're worth. I mean, some of these guys, football players are getting paid fucking hundreds of thousands a week. And that's because football's been

around for years, you know, basketball players, you know, gridiron players. And they, They can't do what we do. So I feel like eventually, you know, MMA, not just the UFC, Bella to all the other major organizations should, I don't know how it's going to happen. I'm not a fucking business-minded person. I just come in there and work pass and get money. But it would be nice if the pie was shared evenly across the field.

Well said, Israel. All right, I'll let you go. Thanks so much for doing this. Great to catch up with you again. And I'm looking forward to seeing you out there in Vegas. I'll see you there. I'm at first time I'm meeting you in person. Yes.

This is a big deal. All right. It is. Mean of the minds. I look forward to. Good luck in training. Joe, brother. Thank you.

All right. There he is. Israel Adesanya. What a great guy. So much fun to speak to him. He's just oozing confidence. Ouseing all kinds of charisma. He's a fantastic fighter.

And he returns on July 6th in Las Vegas. Night before UFC 221. against one Brad Tavares. What a big fight that is for him. All right. So, and by the way, I just want to say one thing before we get to our next guest, it is somewhat unfortunate due to the controversial nature of that fourth to fifth round that we don't talk about how well Amanda Nunes fought.

She did fight very well on Saturday night, and she deserves a lot of credit. I think I mentioned it at the top, but it's been a long day. She's gone through an amazing list of 135ers at this point. So it's obviously worth repeating that she deserves a lot of credit. for how she fought on Saturday night. Now, one of the big stories, one of the bigger stories, got all the attention going in, a ton of attention on Saturday as well. Mackenzie Dern, she's been one of the biggest stories in the UFC in 2018.

She picked up a win on Saturday night against Amanda Cooper. Of course, we all know about her missing weight on Friday. Wanted to talk to her about that. And of course, the victory and where she goes from here, she is kind enough to be joining us via the Magic of Skype. So let's go back to the Skype machine and say hello to McKenzie Dern. There she is. Mackenzie, how are you?

I'm good. Thank you so much for joining us. You're still in Brazil, right? Yeah, I'm here in Brazil. I know this was a big deal for you. I know it was somewhat of a dream to fight in your, you know, in your father's home country, you're Brazilian. How great was it? Did it live up to your expectations? Yeah, it was even better than my expectations. And I think everything that happened made it that much better. so it was really a dream country to fight

here and be able to get the victory too Okay, so could you explain to us Of course, let's talk about before the fight We know what happened at the Wands Seven pounds over When did you start to fear That this was going to be a problem? I started to get nervous

On Thursday, Thursday 9 Thursday 9, I talked to like my manager And in Vegas I had like a kind of close wake up, you know, but in Vegas I was 100% like positive. I was going to make the weight, even though I was like the last one to weigh in.

But in Brazil, I told my manager on Thursday, like, look, this isn't like Vegas. In Vegas, I told you the whole time that I'm positive. Now on Thursday night, we were doing the sauna and the weight wasn't, I was doing like a lot of hours in the sauna and I was just losing like 500 grams, 600 grams, you know, for every like two hours. So I started to tell him like, man, I'm getting nervous. I don't think I'm going to lose this many kilos in less than 24 hours, you know.

So we start to say like, okay, let's see. I did like a massage, a drainage massage. I did like we did everything we could to see like how I would wake up the next morning, Friday morning, if I would lose like a kilo sleeping and then have just two more kilos left. So we decided to wait until Friday morning to see. I woke up like 5.30. We went to the sauna 6 a.m. Did everything again for like two hours.

and, you know, the weight wasn't coming off. I was, like, sweating, and then I'd go to weigh on the scale, and nothing come off, you know, just, like, 600 grand and stuff. So, the commission came and stopped, and basically, like, if they let me, they say, like, if you keep going, then we really have no chance to have a fight because you won't be able to move, you know, you'll be, like, disabled, you know? So if we want any chance to have like maybe a catchweight or something, you have to stop now because I would, they had like, it was nine o'clock already when they made the decision. So you said the commission made that decision. Was the UFC involved in any of this? The UFC, their doctors? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The UFC doctors were there. They went to the sauna there. They like met me there and everything. They were the ones who made the decision. It wasn't like me who said to stop. I went to the bathroom to check my weight. And when I came out, my coached. which is everything. They put me on the chair. They put me on the chair to sit down and they started

to give me some ice and I was like, why no, don't give me a drink. Like, no, I need to cut weight. Like I'm trying to get it up. Don't give me water. And they said, oh, no, no, drink. And I didn't understand why, I don't know. How tough was this? But they had already like talked with them. Okay. You've had obviously some history with this. How tough was this one? Like the strain on your body, how are you feeling? Were you worried that this was going really bad, that your body wasn't reacting well? I felt my body not reacting well. The last one, you know, I was kind of like,

the other times that I didn't make it was more like my head. Like I started to kind of trip out a little bit and a little bit, like a lot. My body's shutting down. This one, I felt like my mind was right. But like I felt like I was conscious with everything. But I felt, I remember trying to tell like, my coach is like, man, it's hard for me to stand up. I start to feel my legs. And I feel like, man, it's hard for me to stand up.

every time and then I went to the sound of two more times and then I couldn't stand up anymore you know like was came out of like the mud the water out of my legs or I don't know the muscles of my legs weren't we're starting to like not respond so it was more my body wise you know and they they did they were scared that I wouldn't be able to fight you know I read some reports that you you missed your flight to to Rio and that kind of delayed things for you is that true yeah I missed my flight too I don't want to say like it's the reason why because I can you have like tons of excuses, you know, why this didn't happen. And I think like the biggest reason is because like the diet from a lot of, a lot of weeks ago. But I know for sure like a lot of things

that happened during the whole camp. I miss my fight. So I mean, I knew coming to Brazil, like I would retain water. I would hold water and everything. But I was kind of like hoping, counting one extra day. But I, but even when I arrived in Brazil, I was on scared. I was on I was heavy, but in the commission told me that they didn't want to let me fight. As soon as I came in Brazil, they wanted to pull me out on Tuesday when I arrived. But I said like, no, it's okay. Like I just flew 14 hours drinking like gallons of water. I didn't do any exercise.

Of course I'm going to be heavy. So they made me like make a weight the next day on Wednesday. So I kind of dehydrated one day or like two days early to show I made a weight before. And when I made that weight on Wednesday, they let me continue to keep it. keep cutting, you know? So it was a little bit crazy the weight cut because I kind of had to do like a pre-hydration to show I could make a weight on Wednesday. Wow. Could you tell us how much you weighed when you arrived and how much you weighed on Wednesday after that pre-cut? Yeah, I arrived at 139, 135 pounds and a half. And then on Wednesday I was

131.131.4. So 139 on Tuesday, is that, is that typical for you to be, what would that be, 24, 23 pounds over? No, no, not too. I mean, not that it's a typical, you know, but I would like to get at the week of the fight like 120. Yeah. You know, that's, there's not like typical, but honestly, when I got there on Tuesday,

I wasn't, I wasn't scared yet. I wasn't nervous or anything. I thought, like, man, I was on the plane and everything, and I was drinking. So I, I, on Thursday, when I arrived, like, I thought, like, man, it's one less day, but for me, it was possible, you know? Okay.

Did you work with a nutritionist in this camp? No, I didn't use a nutritionist. I have a, I have friends in Brazil, and we got one nutritionist that I know. And I talked with him as soon as I rode in Brazil. And I started to ask him, okay, this is the weight here, here. This is where I'm at. This is what I'm doing, what hotel, what sauna. It's a vapor, a wet sauna, not a dry sauna, all these things.

Let him know everything. everything I ate and you know we worked like the week of the fight but it's kind of hard you know to put the you know he wasn't someone who I was working with for six eight weeks you know he was someone who's a nutritionist that I know

and to try to help me on the week of just like in Vegas too I did with the nutritionist of the UFC for your next fight will you work with a nutritionist from start to finish will you will you hire one of these famous nutritionists to help you I will

not just for the next fight. As soon as this happened on Friday, you know, already talk with the UFC. I'm going to go to Vegas. I'm going to work with the Institute starting now, you know. So I'm not even thinking of when my next fight is, but I'm going to go there and get all the test done. And I'm going to work with the UFC starting now. So I'm not going to wait for the next fight to do this.

You know, I'm going to start to, I'm going to take, I'm a little bit like, not against it, but kind of nervous. to work with them and everything. But I'm everything, the organization and everything I saw here in Brazil, how they were trying to call me, I'm so ready like to take their help and take everything that they're willing to invest in me and use like all the exams they want to do, all this stuff to get me. So as soon as I get back to the U.S., we're already planning for me to go to the Institute in Vegas and work with all the nutritionists, all the physical strength training and everything.

and take the help that the UFC is going to give me. Are you surprised Amanda accepted the fight? No, I'm not surprised. I'm not surprised. You know, she got 30% of the first, you know, which was like my penalty. Usually it's like 20%, but because I was so much heavier,

it goes up to 30%. And, you know, I think she was confident in the fight, you know, I think she thought she was going to win and everything. if I was confident in the fight and I'm getting 30% and we're giving 15% extra too, you know, if I if I was to win, we close 15%

extra too. So I would accept the fight too. So I wasn't surprised. I know she wanted to fight and everything. So I don't know if she knows you know, but I wasn't surprised she accepted the fight. I imagine she would accept. I was hoping she would. I was really grateful that she accepted the fight.

So just to be clear, you're giving her 45% you're giving you a 30 plus 15? Yes, 30% of my show money, which is like commissioning, you know, like the, the, the, the, the UFC, I think, or like that everyone has to do if they miss the weight. And then between us together, like just between the fighters, we, we did a negotiation to have to have the fight happen 15% if I would win of my, of my first. Is it 15% of your entire purse or 15% of your win bonus? I think it's 15% of my win bonus. Okay. Because I would just give 50% if I win.

Okay. Are you comfortable saying how much you're actually paying her now? Like, what does this all equal out to? Yeah, you have to ask my manager because I don't know. I think I was, I'm 29, 29 for this fight. So I missed that day in school math So 30% of the 29 and 15% of the other one Okay, I'll do that math

I'm just wondering What was it like on social media for you? Did you read any of the stuff? Obviously, you know, a lot of people are critical And want to take shots and things like that And want to weigh in. Did you read that stuff? And if so, how has it been?

Yeah, as soon as it happened, I didn't read it You know, especially because like Before I posted a thing with a scale you know, with a sponsor. Yeah. And with the scale, you know, I knew it, I knew it would be so much a backlash about that and people would criticize that. But at the same time, I know no one knows everything.

They don't know what happened with me and I'm not a person to like say, you know, come up with, with excuses, you know. There's no excuse. I could say lots of things, but there's no excuse like it's wrong and what happens. So I try not to, before my fight, I try not to read any of it. after now that I'm starting to go and like now it's I'm kind of ready I already celebrated with my family

the people close to me so now it's time for me like to talk to people and explain a little bit you know what happened because at the same time I understand it's not like really fair to just ignore the subject you know that's not my plan at all just I want to let the things calm down a little bit so now I'm starting to like read a little bit but you know it's almost kind of like crazy

you know I see some people like putting hamburgers in my hands like on memes I want to take serious and I'm trying to show like it's not going to happen again. But some of like the memes and stuff like I have to laugh, you know, because it's kind of like crazy. And then the fight itself couldn't have gone better. You dropped her and then obviously you you submitted her very quickly on the ground. Is that how you expected it to go? Did you expect it to be that quick?

I was hoping to, I was telling everyone I was going. I knew I didn't want to stay standing up on this fight. I really wanted to take the fight to the ground of some midfast, especially being in Brazil and represent jit-tigoo. We were training on my camp. We were training like the overhand, right, you know, a lot. But I didn't know that I would take her down by a punch. You know, I was training a lot of my wrestling because everyone said my last fight, my wrestling was bad. So I was willing to try to do my wrestling.

But I was surprised when she fell down with the punch. Obviously, watching. Because we were training, but I didn't know. could you, objectively, could you feel that you were much stronger and bigger than her in there? No, because as soon as I arrived, as soon as I arrived, the U.S. I was 138 and she was 134, 135. So as soon as that happened, I felt like, man, so she's almost my, almost my weight. You know, I didn't feel like, you know, I didn't, I didn't feel my punches.

Like, I felt my right hand was strong, you know, the times I hit her. I didn't feel like, oh, I'm so much heavier or something, you know? I wasn't thinking about the weight honestly anymore. Just as soon as I arrived, they weighed us and I saw like, my weight and her weight, you know? So I said, like, okay, at least we're kind of a little bit similar now. They weighed you at the arena. On fight night, they weighed you at the arena. Yeah.

Okay, wow. Any chance you'd go up to flyweight? Oh, go ahead, go ahead, please. No, because now the commission, they talked to me, said that they're going to start to do the next day you can only recover 10% of your weight you know okay so uh you can't see me uh i can't see you maybe you're getting a call right now is that what's happening oh you're back yes okay so uh they're going to start to do that that the next day you can only recover like 10% of your weight that you know your weight back of your body weight so uh

They were, that's what they said, that they were weighing us now before and after the next day. So they, they, they talk to me a little bit. But I think they're going to, they're going to try to, they're going to make me make one 15 pounds, even outside of fights, even if I don't have a fight. So they're going to do everything they can to help me get on track for that way. So you're not going up to flyweight. You're staying at Strawweight. Yeah, I want to stay at Strawade, you know, hopefully with the help of the UFC and all the everyone at the Institute. it will be a lot easier and we'll be all under control.

If they tell me, like, no, it's not good for you to fight at 115, I'll go to 125. But I've made 115 before a lot like three times, you know, so I think it's a better wait for me. I know the Brazilian commission in the past has suggested that people move up like Prazeris recently. Are they doing the same with you? Are they telling you to move up? Are they putting that kind of pressure on you? No, no, no. No one said anything about that.

They just, they definitely don't want me to miss again. Yeah. Could you guarantee right now that you'll never miss again? Is that a fair thing to ask of you or is that impossible? No, I can guarantee. You can guarantee you'll never miss wait again. Yes. All right. All right. There it is. Pinky promise. You can't break that. My kids and I are stick to that very much. So you can't go back on that. And could I ask you this is the first time that we talked to you in a while? Could you explain from your perspective what happened with the lab? Why were you invited to leave? as it was put? I don't know honestly. From what I know, from what I talked to,

John Crouch, I received, like, a message on my email and text message and WhatsApp all the same day. When I was in California, I arrived back in the U.S. in Arizona, like two weeks after my fight. And I had just confirmed my fight

with Amanda Cooper, so I was going to go back to training, and I received a message just saying that, like, consistency, and, like for part of the team, like as a team member and everything that he thought was better, I was not on the team anymore.

And so I called him and asked like if we could meet personally because it was a surprise for him. And we met like one week later because he was with Ben Henderson in Budapest. And when we talked in person with Jessamy and him and my manager, he just said that he, I was spending like three days in California and four days in Arizona. how I was doing my camps and he wanted me to be, he said I wish I was back in the academy the next week after my fight. And that he wanted me to stay more days in Arizona.

So from what I understood that that's kind of like why he didn't want me on the same anymore because he wanted me more days at the Latin instead of back and forth. Are you hoping to fix this? But I think it's better class can. Okay. Have you moved on or are you hoping to go back? Do you want to go back? No, I'm so grateful for everything

I think that like to be with them all the way until the belt for sure I'm taking everything that they taught me all the work ethic work ethic everything that they taught me as a fighter as a person with me but I'm already on to the new phase I think this new phase was something I didn't ask for

but it happened for a reason and I'm taking I'm liking it you know so I don't have any plans to go back for sure I'm cheering for everyone there like Greenface, Ben, Choucar, all the guys. I love all that, Laura Murphy, but now I'm on a new face. Your head coach now, is it,

is it Vieira? Is that your head coach? Yeah, Leo Vieira with Check Matt and Juan Gomez. He's my stand-up coach. He tries at Black House. Do you know when you want to return or not yet? To the US? Oh, no, to fight again. I know you were very set on fighting on this card.

Do you have another card now in mind? No, no. Okay. Now I want to get my weight and everything and I want to evolve more. You know, I know a lot of people thought I didn't evolve so much because it was so close to my last fight. But I feel like just in a couple weeks, I evolved a lot. So imagine if I can dedicate like two months just training and just focusing on evolving. People are going to see a huge difference.

So that's my plan right now. Was your dad in attendance on Saturday? Was he at the arena? Yeah. Oh, what was that like? He was so excited. Oh, it was great. I wish I could see his face while I was fighting, you know. Yeah.

But he was so happy. He came down after and hung with the fighters and everything. He was really happy. Congratulations, McKenzie. You know, I know this was a tough weekend for you, a lot of, you know, a lot of emotions, but I appreciate you coming on always to clear the air and say your side of the story. So respect to you on that. Again, congrats on the win. Enjoy the win. Enjoy being back home. And looking forward to the next one. And we will remember your guarantee. We will, we have it on tape right now. So we will remember that. Thank you, everyone. Thank you so much. I was great to talk to you. Okay, all the best.

There she is. Mackenzie Duren joining us. Great stuff from her and a big victory on Saturday against Amanda Cooper. This from her manager, one of the very best in the business, our pal, Danny Rubinstein, who tells me it is 30% of her show. It is 15% of her win. And Amanda Cooper is now going to get $14,000. So how about that?

There you have it. 30% of show, 15% of win, $14,000. The big news, of course, for McKenzie Dern. She remains undefeated. Big win against Amanda Cooper, now 2-0 in the UFC. One against Ashley Yoder at UFC 222 and then returns at 224, 7-0 overall, and another submission. She has six submissions. her loan, excuse me, five submissions, went the distance in her debut, pro debut in 2016, July, 2016,

went the distance in March and her UFC debut. The rest are all submissions. And no, I lied. That's three decisions. One, two, three, and then the rest. Okay, so four. See, I missed that day. I miss that day in math. Okay. A bit of a change in the plans here. I asked New York, Rick, to reach out. He's done a fantastic job today. And I really wanted to get not only Raquel Pennington side of what happened on Saturday night, but I thought it was really important to get her coach's side. Again, I recognize the fact that I've weighed in on this. I've said a lot, I've asked a lot of people what they think of it.

But at the end of the day, the two most important people to hear from, in my opinion, Raquel Pennington and her coach. And so I am thrilled to say that her coach, Jason Kutz, has agreed to come on the program. and talk about what happened on Saturday. I really respect him for doing that. And so without further ado, let us go to the phone lines and say hello to Jason. Jason, are you there? I'm here.

Hey, Jason, great to talk to you. Thank you so much for doing this. And I just want to make sure, did I pronounce your last name correctly? Cuts. Yeah, that close. Okay, great. Well, thanks for doing this on short notice. I sincerely appreciate it, and I think it says a lot about you.

Could I ask just at the top? a lot of people are weighing in, including myself. I'm not hiding from that. How has the last two days been like for you? I know most importantly the thing that you care about most is your fighter winning and then her health and safety. And then, of course, there's all this commotion surrounding it. And you haven't, to the best of my knowledge, been in a situation like this before. How has it been for you the last couple of days?

You know, it's been a little hectic here and there. I mean, I've just been hearing things. I'm not the guy that's going to get on social media and hear whatever. everybody's saying, because I don't really think a lot of people, you know, exactly know what happened, and that's why I agreed to do this. But, you know, as far as your order of my concerns for Raquel, you mentioned her winning first and then health and safety second. You know, I'm not necessarily sure that that's the order that I would say.

Fair enough. So. You would say health and safety first, then winning, and then the noise. Okay. she had mentioned she was on the show around an hour ago that very early in the fight of course we know about the leg injury late last year but early in the fight a light kick connected she felt like she was going to throw up she was in an extrusionating amount of pain and we know sometimes how this goes with the corner audio we don't always hear it just so happens that in the fourth round we heard the discussion between you two did you know that she was in that much pain throughout the majority of the fight no i didn't know she was Oh, we lost you there for a second. You said no, and then I lost you for a second. I didn't know that she was in that amount of pain.

I mean, I knew it hurt. I definitely knew it hurt. I mean, she got, it was, what, minute one? So she had been fighting, you know, was her hurt leg for solid. The situation of, you know, I think that mentally she was having some, you know, some issues pushing past that and trying to get past that space and trying to get, you know, get past those kicks so she could use her hands more. But, you know, that's what I noticed the most was more of the hesitation, like the anxiety of just kind of getting in there and getting to it.

So. But to answer your question, I think that if, you know, had she been gimping around and limping around and hobbling on one leg, totally different story. But I didn't see any of it. I didn't see any of that. I mean, her movement was doing well. Yeah, she kept getting cracked in that leg, but, you know, her movement, her stance was still solid, in my opinion. So that's why we went ahead and did what we did.

Yeah, and we'll get to the fourth round in a second, but I'm just curious, was the leg a big concern in training camp? Like, were you worried that if, you know, because it was public, right? We knew she spoke about it. Everyone knew. Were you worried that this would be targeted and it would be a problem in the fight? if targeted correctly? Well, you know, you've got to assume it's going to get targeted. So, yeah, we were prepared for that.

I mean, she did an inordinate amount of rehab on that leg. Never one time was there a complaint throughout the whole can. And we did a really long shot. But, you know, never one time did her cap come up at all as far as, wow, this thing hurts. or it feels weak. You know, it just so happened at about the time that, you know, I considered her back with the cast. That's when she got fallen, you know,

and went ahead and took the fight. So we just kept driving on from there. So then in that moment in the fourth round, when she turned around to you and said, I'm done, I want to be done, is that a common thing? Sorry? I lost you there.

Oh, sorry. I just lost you there. Okay, so I was curious about the fourth round now. When she turned around to you and said, I'm done, I want to be done. Is that common from Raquel? Is that something that you hear her say in training camp at the gym, when you're sparring, when you're doing different kinds of drills? Because that's something that's come up. If this is something, is this part of your relationship where you kind of have to give her that extra nudge towards the end of a fight or a sparring session?

Is that common from her or is this a very uncommon thing for her to say? I'd say that it's rather uncommon, and I'll probably take some heat from that. But what I'm going to say is the way she said it, and more importantly, the look in her eye. And that's what I don't think people understand. I mean, you spend four hours a day doing what she does and doing what we do. You know, I know her. I can read her face like a book. And I know that had she stopped right then and there,

you know, and I talked to her about this afterwards, like, hey, in 10 years, when you look back at this, like, I think you'd be kicking yourself in the pants had you not gone out there, you know? But most importantly, you know, I knew it was going to take an extraordinary effort because she had to stop. I mean, she had to do something huge, right? And something extraordinary. And if I didn't think that Raquel could do something extraordinary, then, hey, we would have went the other way with it. you know and and the thing is like i said that the the the mentality of her at that moment i just felt if she could somehow flip it around and go out there and do something extraordinary we got a chance and you know what she trained her ass off for a long time to get this title shot and in the fifth

round of the title fight i know her legs hurts but hey i thought that she'd go out there and you know go so in that moment in that moment when she's saying that to you and of course we know why now it's because her leg was hurting so much and that's obviously understandable

I'm curious as to why you didn't ask her why she wanted out if it is uncommon for her to say that did you just know did you have a feeling from a previous round that that was the reason why if not how come you didn't ask no she said she said my leg hurts okay she said that in that moment

Okay. That's exactly what she said. My leg hurts. But she said, Jason, my leg hurts. And that's what she said. So I'm like, I know it hurts. You know, I mean, everybody in the arena knew it. It would hurt.

It would have to hurt. You know what I mean? But that night goes back to her movement, you know, her stance, you know, this and that. She, to me, was not showing any signs of dysfunction of the wind. Yeah, it hurt. But as far as, you know, gimping and limping on it, I didn't see it. So. One thing that we had, go ahead.

If you look at the beginning of the round, you know, she's moving again. And she was light on her feet. I was like, okay, okay. And then, you know, obviously things didn't work out the way it was. But at that moment, you know, what do I have? I have a second to give some advice there. Yeah. That's what I felt here and looking into her eyes and seeing it on her face.

That's what I felt needed to happen. And in my opinion, she, you know, she did turn it around mentally, did a 180 and started the fifth round. So, you know, I'm ridiculously proud of that. And I know a lot of people think I just threw her to the wolf, but, you know, it's her. And I know how tough she can be. And even when times are tough, I know how tough she can be.

So that's why I went ahead and did what we did. Have you ever been in that situation before where a fighter tells you that, you know, they want to be done and you don't believe that that's the right call, that they will regret it and that you kind of convince them to go out there and fight? Does that ever happen in your coaching career? I would say, you know, early on, like, I'm a wrestling coach by trade back in the day. I'll say that. And I've had plenty of wrestlers say, like, that's it.

I'm done. And, you know, I coached, I was a Division I head coach for a while. I coached Lehigh University, which is a top tier D1 program for seven years. So a lot of it, you know, a lot of my experiences are going back to that. And, you know, those are men. And, yeah, I've had people. They like, I can't do it. I can't do it.

And it all depends. Like, if you have no use of a limb, yeah, you're done. You know, but if you tell me something hurts, that's different. And if the way you tell me something hurts, that's different. And I also think that, you know, it could be different had Raquel been, you know, a guy. And then, you know, saying that, I think things will get looked at it a little different, you know. And I've had that conversation with Raquel. I know how tough she is.

I'm not going to treat her any different than I would treat, you know, a guy. So that's where we're at on that. Yeah, I don't subscribe to that. I don't think that anyone else should, but, you know, I can't speak for everyone else. I'm curious. One other thing that I brought up was, and I'm so happy that you're on that I can ask you this and not hypothesize, is there any reason why in that moment you didn't say, okay, let's try to do X, Y, and Z, let's try to score a take down, let's try to do something that you guys worked on.

I know you had a game plan to turn the tide. It seemed like obviously you had to get her back on board. You had to sort of lift her spirits, but was there any reason why? Did you just run out of time? Or in hindsight, do you wish that you were able to offer some technical advice in that moment as well? In hindsight, yes. But I do think, you have, first of all, I was on the outside and Coach Juan Gonzalez. he was on the inside.

So there was some, you know, I couldn't exactly hear what she said to him, and then she stood up and said it to me, so then, all right, there we go. So, you know, I do think we kind of ran out of time there, as far as getting some technical going.

Okay. But, uh, I think we'd lose him. Still there? Oh, yeah, we lost you there for a second. You said, uh, ran out of time as far as technical goes. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, no, I said, hey, come on, girl. You know, well, everybody knows what I said. You know, and then by the end of the time of her looking in my eyes, and then she looked at Coach Guzeman, the boxing coach, looked in his eyes. And, you know, by then she had turned around. And like, hey, let's go.

It's round starting. Boom, off we go. So as the round starting, she went out there, you did not think twice. You thought that that was the right call? I did. in hindsight now less than two days later do you have any regrets about anything that transpired in between the fourth and fifth i would say the only thing that i could have said differently is maybe put it back into her court a little bit and said like do you really want me to stop this fight you know that's hindsight now you know but again because that throws it right back on her and then she said yes it's over you know what i mean but When she came, you know, when she said, I don't want to do this. My leg hurts.

My first initial reaction is, okay, your leg hurts. What's powered through this? Honestly, that's what I was going with. So, you know, and I didn't want her to stop the sight because her leg hurt. And granted, we already discussed it, you know, I knew it hurt, but the nausea and this and that, you know, I wasn't really aware of at that moment. No. Knowing that now, do you feel like you should have? stopped it?

With the nausea? Just how she was feeling. She said she felt like, you know, she felt like she wanted to throw up. It was in so much pain. Yeah. You know, I think a lot of that is, you know, anxiety. Like I said, it's been going on for a long while. So, I mean, you know what?

I'm not going to answer that question because I didn't know that. I'll speak to what I did know. And I want to stick with that. You know, I don't regret it. That's the decision that was made. and, you know, talk to all the other coaches, they feel the exact same way. So that's what we did.

Why do you think in the sport of MMA, unlike in boxing, I don't know if you have a take on this, but I'd love to hear your thoughts if you do, that it's kind of frowned upon to stop a fight, you know, whether it's a coach doing it or even, you know, there's just a couple of famous cases, but it's really not a prevalent thing like it is in boxing. Coach or even a fighter saying, you know,

I'm done, let's live to fight another. day. Why do you think that that's so frowned upon in our sport? Well, I think that, you know, these athletes believe that they're the toughest things that walk on the planet, you know, and they are, they are really, you know. So, you know, there's one side of the schoolhouse that, you know, let's stop here and, you know, live to fight another day and then there's a completely other one and where a lot of fighters lie is that, you know, hey, we'll heal up. Now's not the time to, you know, stop on yourself now.

I mean, we can heal up before the next fight, you know, so I think that's why. But probably ego is the easiest answer to answer that question as to why it's frowned upon. And I don't know if it necessarily frowned upon, but I mean, that's up to each and every individual. to speak. So that's kind of where we were coming from in between that round. And, yeah. Yeah, I think it is a fascinating topic in our sport, and I don't envy your position because I know that there are egos involved, and these fighters to a degree are probably tougher than the toughest human beings that I know, but sometimes they're too tough for their own good, right? You know, they think that they can do anything and overcome anything. And that's why sometimes

I feel like the coach needs to be the person who says, you know, let's live to fight another day here. Or hit the break. Oh, I get it. I get there's a time for the coach to say, you know, hey, hit the gas or hit the brakes. You know, right there, I felt that I would afford her the opportunity to hit the gas. Okay.

Now let's say we say we said, okay, we're done, right? Now what? now everybody probably be coming at me saying like, why stop the fight? I don't know because I don't read any of that stuff. But, you know, in some sense of this situation, you know, I was almost in a lose-lose situation, although none of this happened when I was thinking that.

I mean, in that moment, I wasn't thinking any of, you know, hey, this is a lose-lose situation. I just wanted her to, you know, this whole fight camp we talked about just go out and give your best performance, you know. And I'm going to tell you this, we had her ready, man. We did. Like, she could go 25 minutes, no problem. Trained hard.

She was the strongest I've ever felt her. You know, she cut weight really well. Her technique was crisp and that, you know. And then, you know, now that I have a chance to process this a little bit, you know, those first couple kicks, game changer right there. Yeah. As physically as, you know, and probably more importantly mentally, you know, so that's, that's, that was the, the struggle of the fight was the, was the mental aspect. And then over time, the physical aspect caught up with her. But, you know, at the end of the day, I felt that she could have done something extraordinary in the fifth round.

So go try. and you know it didn't work but you know she'll live to fight another day for sure I've long been a proponent of fighters especially at that level receiving one purse

like this show win breakdown to me is antiquated as I said multiple times I don't believe that that comes into mind like when you're talking there for 60 seconds but subconsciously I feel like that's a really tough burden to put on the coaching staff because at this point we're talking about 50

percent of your fighter's purse, right? And if you're robbing them of that, to use a very extreme phrase, as opposed to letting them go out and hit a Hail Mary, then they, you know, the Hail Mary doesn't come, they're at peace with it. But if you're the one who says no, and they're like, yes, I want to fight, and I could have done it, you robbed me of that, it could cause a rift in the camp. Would you, do you, do you subscribe to that notion as well? Because I really feel like it comes into play at some point. There's so much money to be won on the other side by winning despite as opposed to just showing that it just puts the corner in a very tough spot. Yeah.

No, I don't subscribe to that at all, especially with Raquel and you're now working with Tisha either. Like, we never discussed money. You know, that's not why she does it. She doesn't fight for money. I don't coach her for money. You know, the other coaches coach her for money. And, you know, if I were to make a decision based on money, whether she's, you know, on her getting more or myself getting more.

If I make a decision like that based on money, dude, fire me. I quit. That's not it at all. Zero chance. Money had anything to do with that. You know? So, but, I mean, I could understand how in some camp,

some personality is this and that. I could understand how that could potentially play into it, you know? so um but as far as money in this camp no has zero to do with it have you heard from other coaches since this has happened people you respect to reach out to you know to to to say you know um i got your back anything like that have you heard from other people in the community who have offered support yeah yeah uh i have let's say you know very few a little bit here and there um I think people are kind of just laying off, like giving me some time to process this. They have known I just got off the plane for, you know, the last 16 hours.

And so I think that they're just giving me an opportunity to cool out. And eventually, you know, more and more people are starting to reach out and say, hey, man, I got your back on that one, you know. And I do realize that some people are not going to have my back. But, man, tough situation, right? Yeah. So that's that. Okay. Well, I have to say, I really respect you for coming on and talking about it. In closing, just to recap once in for all, and correct me if I'm wrong here, knowing what you knew, you wouldn't do anything differently. You're at peace with this decision, your fighter is at peace, your coaching staff is at peace, you guys are moving on as one. You will live to fight another day together. Is that the general message here? that is the general message but I couldn't say it any better than that you know I mean I made a decision

I'm not regretting that decision at all the coaching staff isn't regretting it but most importantly rakel is not regretting it so there you have it we're going to move forward and you know learn and grow from this and keep on keeping on thanks for doing this Jason I really appreciate it and you know congrats to you and Raquel um as I said to her privately on fighting valiantly. And now that we know what she was dealing with, it's even more impressive. So I really appreciate you doing this. And hopefully, you know, this little storm goes away and you guys can get back to getting

her back on track. Yeah, for sure. I appreciate it. Thanks for your time. Okay. There he is. Great to have him on the program. Jason Cuts, the coach for Raquel Pennington and most important,

importantly, the coach who was interacting with her in that moment, that clip now that has been seen by many people, it's being talked about on every sports show out there. And I think it's, again, I think it's a fascinating topic. I think it's a topic that is not necessarily a black eye on the sport in the sense that, look, the fact that people are talking about it, this means that MMA has kind of grown up and it's a part of our, it's a part of our news cycle. I think it says a lot about Raquel and her coach that they would come on and talk about it. And they're clearly on the same page. And they're at peace with the decision that was made. And they can now move along. And it doesn't sound like she's leaving the coach or there's a rift within the camp or there's a difference of opinion within the coaching staff. So it's a fascinating thing. And I don't think it goes away.

And I think it's okay for every person under the sun to have an opinion on this. Even if you weren't there. I think it's, that's why I reached out to a bunch of other coaches. who I respect to hear how they would handle a situation like this. But major props to Jason Coates for coming on and talking about this. I thought that that was very commendable on his part. All right. What a show it has been?

What a day it has been. We start off with Chuck Lidell announcing his unretirement, his return to MMA, and all the way to Jason Coates, the coach for Raquel Pennington. It has been a very fun day, but there is a lot of show left, my friends. We have a lot more to discuss. A hell of a lot more to discuss. We have hardly touched on Yaira Rodriguez. Yer Rodriguez is no longer in the UFC.

And I tried, by the way, one more time to get him on the show today. But I was told that he is unavailable, unfortunately. So I would love to hear from him. I do think that there is more to this story. I think it's interesting that the fight went from a done deal to him being cut in the span of, what, 48 to 72 hours? What happened there? and I would love to hear his side of the story. And I also think it's notable.

I was thinking about this on Friday. I'm a big basketball fan, as you know. The Toronto Raptors made the very controversial decision on Friday to fire Dwayne Casey, who was voted by his peers, the fellow NBA coaches. It's the best coach in the 2017-2018 season, coach of the year. and they've just fired the coach of the year. Very controversial. Everyone has a take on it. Some agree, some disagree.

Not unlike the McHale Pennington Corner situation. And what happened in that situation? What, four hours later, Masay Ujiri, president of the Raptors, holds a press conference, faces the music, answers questions, is available, is held accountable. I dream of a day that that happens in our sport.

Controversial. You obviously had your reasons. You obviously couldn't come to terms on something. You're not on the same page. He last fought a year ago, so something happened very recently to lead to his release. It wasn't like he just fought and you feel like he's not worthy of being on the roster.

So what happened? I dream of that day. Conference call, press conference. This is why we made that decision. I feel like that's the next step in the evolution of this sport. I've said it a million times. I still feel like we're in the 1920s here. We're still wearing leather helmets.

That's an analogy to the great sport of pro football. Sport needs to grow up a little bit as far as accountability is concerned. I think it is important to explain so we know what happened. And I'd love to hear from him as well. What happened here? How did things get to this point? Where did things go wrong? Not quite there yet, of course.

I would love to see it happen at some point. John Lineker with a big win over Brian Kelleher. Kelleher did what many people would not do. Go to Brazil, fight hands of stone. Unfortunately, it didn't work out his way. How about Leo de Machita and that front kick? I mean, a carbon copy of UFC 126. Knocking out Vitor Belford.

Belfort leaves his gloves in the ring. Says he's done. We'll see if that is in fact true. one of the all-time greats of this sport. Alexi Olinic with another Ezekiel Choke, the only man to score an Ezekiel choke in the UFC, and he has now done it twice. That man might be the strongest human being

to ever compete inside the Octagon. To do that to a fellow heavyweight is nothing short of amazing. Tons of great finishes on that card. Also on Saturday, like I said, Ryan Bader with the big K.O., John Fitch defeats Paul Daley, and I have watched that clip of Paul

daily talking to the broadcasters say, boo, boo, way to get fans this way. You're going to get zero fans this way. Bell Tor. Great job. I've watched that clip a thousand times. They are hopeful to get back on track. Okay, okay. Near Creek telling me to stop stepping on all his picks. All right, I'm sorry. I was just trying to recap everything that we're about to talk about, but he's saying that I'm ruining everything. Arpico with a big win, Czech Congo with his first finish. There's so much Hendo Shogun going to the Hall of Fame. What else? PFL uniforms. Darren Elkins against Alex Volcanovsky. ESPN Plus. The new one-fcc app, the return of Angela Lee. So much going on. Much more left. So this is what you have to do. If you're watching us on YouTube,

Facebook, MMA Fighting, go to live.com.com slash MMAfighting. That is live.com. Twitter. dot com slash MMA fighting if you're watching us on Twitter stay right there again YouTube Facebook MMA fighting go to Twitter

you know the link same place as always we've got Ricks we've got your questions we've got question of the week we've got so much more so live dot Twitter.com slash MMA fighting

the MMA after hour starts right now and we are back and we are back it is the MMA after hour and we have talked to a who's who today We have talked to everyone under the sun, but now it's time for everyone's favorite segment.

It is time for... And now it's time to open up your ears and your minds, MMA fans. It's time for Rick's Picks. Rick's Picks. Rick's Picks are lots of fun and his hair isn't a bun because it's... You already know what it is. Rick's Picks. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, it's the moment you've all been waiting for.

It's the new craze taking the world by storm. Live from the Vox studios in beautiful New York City, it's time for Rex Pix. Boom. Look at this guy. Representing the squad. Got a T-shirt. Now, this is what I want to know.

Talk to me. How much did they charge you for said T-shirt? Because there's no way you got that for free. You're right. The MMA fighting team does not value me for my contribution. So I was able to finagle it for free. What? But this is what they told me would be my compensation for the MMA in its entirety.

Well, I have to say, you know, I give credit where it is due. You have done a fantastic job. I think that this has been your finest hour or hours. Juggling things. Somehow convincing Raquel Pennington, how did you do that one? You know? New York Rick said, no, I'm not taking no for an answer. I am calling this woman up who's in an excruciating amount of pain dealing with all kinds of stuff.

are going to hear from her on this program. And if that's not enough, I'm calling her coach too. I mean, how did you pull this off? Look, I'm not one to reveal and, you know, pull back the curtain and let people in on things. So we're going to keep that behind the scenes for now. Okay. But, you know, we've got a good team here. Yeah. We make things work. Well, you certainly did. We've never said the best damn show in MMA. Well, I mean, look, you said it not me, right? By the way, I got a text. Yeah. From my old friend, Jen Wank.

Yes. About, hi, Ariel. I hope you're well. This is Jen Wank. Of course. The news went out today about the MMA Awards, and I was hoping you can mention them on the show. We announced the date last week, July 3rd.

Voting begins tonight at midnight Pacific. Thank you for the consideration. Now, are the nominees out? Let's find out. Okay. I'm curious as to why they're doing it in July. Like, what ground does this cover? Are we talking about July to July now, or is it a year and a half?

And also, why is it on a Tuesday and not maybe a Wednesday? I know Thursday is the Hall of Fame, but why is it on a Tuesday? A chew, chew, chew. I don't see anything on the World Emmy Awards website. Let me check Fighters Only page. Yeah, I don't see anything either. I just want to know if you're nominated for Best Producer. nominated.

I'm the only one in the category. They're handing it over. Oh, snap. I don't think they have the actual nominees up yet. I guess we're getting them at at midnight. Okay.

Midnight PT, that's 3 a.m. So I just asked her, and she said that they are on the website. I don't see anything. Voting will open Midnight PT on Monday. Yep. This year's partners.

No, I don't think so. Yeah, I don't see them either. All right. She says... I see last year's winners. Wait, wait, wait, awards criteria. No, no, I don't see anything there. No.

I don't think so. All right. Well, maybe she'll let me know. Maybe it's... I mean, suffice it to say, you know, I'm taking down whatever it is. The 10th World MMA Award Show, Palms Casino Resort on July 3rd in Lost Wages, Nevada. Oh, okay.

If you go to world mMA awards.com slash vote. Oh. You can get the votes. Thank you to Mike Bonn. Mike Bonn. Why, you're so surprised to hear from him? Well, I'm surprised that he watches the program. Oh, I thought you're going to say you're surprised that he's crawled out of a hole after

LeBron James Burr. his entire city. Yeah, Lebronto. Sorry. So they have, Yeah, Fighter of the Year is up here. It doesn't say, though, what period it covers, right?

It doesn't say, is this July to July? I'm guessing the calendar year? Plus July? No, I'm guessing the calendar year of 2017. You can't give out a award in July for 2017. We're way past that point. Damn right, you can. Come on, Bader.

Like, Bader's, okay, so the fighter of the year nominees, Bader are D.A. Whitaker, DJ, Max. Bader's win is going to come into play. Anyway, this is the female fighter of the year. Julia Budd, Angela Lee, Alimalaam McFarlane. Would you look at that? Nominated for Best M.MA.

Wait, well, we're getting there. Breakthrough fighter. Martin Wen. Volkan Ozedimir, Brian Ortega, Darren Till, Francis Inganu, international fighter. Ozdemier, Winn, Till, Wittaker, Usmann, Fight of the Year. Okay, this will explain a lot. Fight of the Year.

Alvarez Porre, Wittaker Romero, Gaichi Johnson, sang Big Dash, and Alvarez Gaichi. So those are all in 2017. So you might be right. Knock out of the year, Brown Sanchez,

Barbosa, Darius, Daly Ward. Wait, Daily Ward. Yeah, that was last year. And Ganu Overeem. Pico Lynn. It's 2017. Yeah, yeah.

Submission, Brando, Machachev, John Soto, Bagov, Junkins, Ortega Swanson, and then DJ Bore, comeback,

Gaichi Johnson, Hall, Jotko, Wood, Reed and Cage Warriors, Elkins Bechtick, and Lewis Brown. Upset of the year,

Martin Wen, winning in one, Elkins Bechtick, Primis Chandler, Namayunis, Janjache, and Freeman Piko, coach of the year,

Duke Rufus, Whitman, Zahabi, Hume, and Ludwig. Trainer of the year. Sam Calavita, Nick Curson, Phil, Daru, Tyler Minton. Ooh, he's going to be happy about this. And Michelle Ingalls, Jim of the Year, Rufus Sport, Gracie Techniques, Kings MMA, ATT, TriStar,

referee of the year, Jason Herzog, Mike Beltram, Herb Dean, Mark Goddard, and Big John McCarthy. This is the big one. Ring Card Girl of the Year. Angelica Anderson. Who is Angelica Anderson? I actually don't know. Carly Baker, Jenny Andrudge,

Ariane Selest, and Mercedes Terrell. Leading man, Martin Lewandowski, Shatri Situatang. I believe M1. Ed Soros, Dana White and Scott Coker, Best Promotion LFA 1, KSW, UFC, and Bellator. Personality of the Year, Daniel Cormier, Michael Chavello,

Chale's son and John Annik, and Joe Rogan, Analysts of the year, Paul Felder, Jimmy Smith, Dominicruz, Pat Melich and Brian Stan. Best MMA programming, MMA junkie radio, The Ultimate Fighter, Sherdog Roundtable, The MMA Hour, and UFC Embedded. Ooh, I got a couple of websites in there, huh? Sherdog Roundtable.

I didn't know that was still around. Is it still around? It is, yeah. Okay, so there you go. There's your competition. Junkie Radio, Ultimate Fighter. kind of crazy to compare like, you know,

junkie radio, Ultimate Fighter, MMA hour, it's like very different programming. Yeah. I mean, Shardog Roundtable. And then, of course, UFC Embedded.

Media source of the year, flow combat, bloody elbow, Shurdog, MMA junkie, and a little train that could called the MMAfighting.com website.

MMA journalists of the year. Kareem Zedan, Brett Akamoto, Chuck, don't call me Mindenhall, Mindenhall, John Morgan, Ariel Helwani

MMA clothing and equipment brand of the year Reebok Ruka, bad boy, venom and Hayabusa. So there you have it. Those are the nominees. You missed one. I did? MMA clothing and equipment brand of the year. Did you do that? I said that. Oh, okay. It's the last one I said.

Look, I was, you know, already thinking about my victory speech. Yeah, what do you got? What do you got? Are you flying out to Vegas to accept the award on our behalf? You can bet. What do you think it comes down to? Like what's the real competition here? There's no competition.

Interesting. Foregone conclusion, baby. Wow. You think we do it this year? If the people who watch this show actually vote with their heart and with their minds. It'd be nice. It'd be nice if instead of getting shunned, you've got the support we needed. Yeah, it would be nice.

To take home that trophy, the gold fighter trophy. I feel like when it comes to journalists of the year, they put me at the end, hoping that I lose. Oh, is that how that work? I mean, it's not in an alphabetical order. So how did you come up with this? And if they put you at the beginning, you win? No, just put it in alphabetical order. You know?

I have to be honest. I don't know if that much thought went into it. H would be first. Now that I see, H-M-M-O-N-Z. So, yeah, I should be first. In any event, good luck to all. How many is this now? How many years have you won in a row?

Oh, I don't know. Let's stop up with this. Yeah, let's, I mean, passet. What do we got? What do we got? Rick's picks, let's do it. All right, let's do it. But actually people, come on. Go out and vote.

We're going to start with a promo. Oh. My mother has texted you saying that she's voting, okay? So chill out. Yes, I see that. That's one. And by the way, happy Mother's Day to your lovely wife. Thank you.

celebrated her first Mother's Day. Wow. Right. We went out with the grandmother. What did we do? Just had a nice meal. Me. What did you eat? The baby. The wife.

Don't tell me you went to like a Chipotle type of restaurant. Did you class it up? We didn't go to Chipotle, but we did have Mexican. Oh, wow. No, it was a authentic. He said it was like Taco Bell or something. No, no, no, no. Where do we go?

Why, first of all, where did that come from? What? Why Chipotle? I'll tell you why. I was listening to Mad Dog Radio this morning and they were having a debunkable. on the show called Morning Men, which I'm a fan of it. They're fun. You ever listen to that show?

No. They're having a debate, what's better, Taco Bell or Chipotle. So that's what came to mind. And you associate me with these? No, it just kind of came to mind. I don't know. Sorry. I'm offended, personally.

You're not a fan. Yeah, I mean, you went to a Mexican restaurant, so clearly you like that type of cuisine. Yes, but I have a higher, a higher standard. Okay. So what was the restaurant? It was like a... Just kidding. Chipotle is fine.

I have no problem with Chipotle. I do. But it was nice. It was a good time and It's weird that my wife is now mom Yeah, was she getting emotional about it No, she wasn't because then we just went Food shopping and did our usual errands

It was pretty low key Did you buy or something? No What? I bought the dinner Or the lunch rather The lunch, interesting You know, I paid for the ladies to

To eat Okay, fair enough I gave her a baby You know what? I did the heavy lifting on this And so she gets to Yeah, that is what happened. I gave her a baby, and now we get to live the rest of our lives.

Can we let the world know that since you've become a dad, you haven't played in our basketball league once? I have not. It's been six months. I mean, when is this retirement coming to an end? Can we take a page out of Chuck Liddell's book here and come back already? No, because I put my baby to sleep every single night. I don't have... I mean, it's one night.

I don't have any help. Oh, okay. Well, now, I see, I didn't know that. ever verbalize that. I go home and... You're in charge. Why? Because your wife's working? My wife does the morning. Where's she at night? She's still working till she doesn't get out till 8, 9.

She's back at work. What about maternity leave? My baby is 6 months old. Yeah, so? In Canada, it's one year. Is this Canada? Does this look like Canada? What is it here? And don't do the wife. Yeah, let's see, let's see it. No, no, no, don't do it. What is it here? She had three months off, which I think is pretty decent.

Three months? No, after the fact. She did a month before and three months after. That's not right. I'm calling Donald and Michael Cohen. Can we get to Rick's? That is ridiculous. Three months, it should be at minimum a year, if not more, and it should be paid.

I feel like she's on the high end of what people get, to be honest. Wow. So she does the morning, you do the night, and of course you can't rotate on game days. No. So have you officially retired? No, I'm not.

Listen, look. I'm not out of the game. Okay. I still got it I still got that fire baby I'm coming just do me a favor whenever you're back just send out a fax

two words I'm coming back one period no it's just I'm back Michael Jordan no I don't have that high an estimation of my of my importance to the team

look we're doing great yeah that hurts that hurts never been better but we still miss you I appreciate that yeah okay I'm ready

we're talking about Jordan's famous I'm back Oh, yeah. Let's talk about another great promo cut by Amanda Bobby Cooper after finding out that McKenzie missed weight and then taking the fight. Can I just say that I think this was way overrated? Well, let's bring up the volume and see where... Everything that I called, I'm going to beat this girl. How do you believe you get it done?

Because this is something where she wants to take it to the canvas. We know where she's most skilled. What are you expecting to do out there? I'm already expecting a broken mechanic. Couldn't make the wait. She couldn't get this stuff done. She missed her flight getting here. Like, that is not a professional.

I'm going to stuff her shots. I'm going to punch her in the face, and I'm going to break her more than she's already broken. We are so looking forward to this fight. Amanda, best of luck to you. Real pleasure to speak to you. I appreciate it. Thank you so much. Amanda, that was a pretty intense stare down.

So you think overrated. Let's bring the volume. I saw people talking like this was the second coming of Rick Flair or something. I mean, really? Was this, was this, was this CM Punk in Las Vegas? dropping the pipe bomb of all pipe bomb? I mean, it was great. I don't think it was.

But, you were like, wrestlers from NXT to TNA to New Japan, you just study this. Okay, fair enough. And look at the tape and look at how she delivered that promo. I'm with you there. But relax. All the talk was about McKenzie Dern. She was able to get a little bit of that spotlight to carve out a little bit of. Great job.

She was fighting under very tough circumstances and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, And Dern revealing that she weighed just four and a half pounds more than her on fight night is somewhat shocking because it didn't look that way, right? When you were watching, I'm not taking anything away from her. But, I mean, just the fawning was a little much. By the way, I have to say this because we were talking about it earlier and I don't want to forget. One of our great supporters, he's been on the program before, one of the nicest people that I've met while covering this sport, the mench of all munches, the great John Gooden is now a father. And what a great post he had on social media. I'm so happy for him and his lovely wife.

So he is now a father. And he has also, so muzzled up to them. I hope everyone's feeling great and how much this meant to them. And I just couldn't be happier for them. He has weighed in and said that three months, Mrs. Gooden would not stand for that for the record. So different, different circumstances. What's the circumstances? Across the pond.

It's different. I feel like the Commonwealth has it down. Look, are you asking me if I would rather have had my wife? more time off and if she would agree to that, I can guarantee. What about, what about on Mondays? What do you mean? Well, I'm assuming you don't get home in time for bedtime or do you? I do.

Oh, you do? Interesting. I do. Wait, so who's with your daughter right now? Mom. Oh, okay, okay. Then the handoff happens. I got you.

Anyway, yeah, so it was great. And congrats to John, obviously, and his wife. What a match. Yes. I thought it was a good. good promo, but more than anything, it was just good to... What can happen in this case is the conversation becomes all about McKenzie. I thought she did a good job taking the spotlight away for just a moment.

Okay, we move on to an incredible comeback. Obviously, this is all the footage we get of it, but Jack Hermanson, with the incredible comeback. What about... Yes, go on. No, what were you going to say? I was going to say, the screams of agony here. Do you hear...

Did you see that? Yeah, after the fight. Clearly, in a lot of pain, round two was very difficult, but, I mean, an incredible comeback by Herman's. Did he say that there was like a piece of his rib floating in there or something? He did. In the first round, I believe he said his rib broke.

Didn't even mention the knee part of this, just saying his knee, I mean, his rib was broken. What a comeback by Hermanston, one of the all-timers. And we've had some great ones this year, including, you know, the tap-out. at the horn by Paul Craig. Just an incredible comeback. Okay.

We go to some coverage from MMAfighting.com featured because Bathrow Belt Fort kind of stole the show leading into UFC 224. This is the best. Could he have looked any more comfortable? It's not just the bathrobe. It's the freaking plaid flannel pants. The whole outfit just screams comfort.

I don't know if this was a thing where you grew up, but in like my mid-high school days, so I'd say like 96, 97, that was a big thing. Everyone wore flannel. Pajamas? Yeah, pajama pants. Yeah, that was a thing for sure. I hate it. In hindsight, like, anytime my kids have pajama day at school, I'm 100% against it. I fake the pajamas. I say, oh, this is your pajamas. This is where we're going to wear. I just find it to be a very strange thing. No one wants to see you waltzing around in your pajamas. Yeah, the pajama pants were a big, a big thing when I was a team. teenager. But Mr. Belfort bringing it back. Do you believe he remains retired? Well, let's talk about that in a second. First, some incredible photos from our very own Esther Lynn. Esther had a great day on Saturday.

This one of bowing. That one is phenomenal. And there's another angle. I mean, she got the angle that she got and it was great, but there's also another angle that is like 100% reminiscent of the mayhem picture that we have up on the set here. I think that was a different fight that you're thinking of. Was it? Oh, this is right.

This is the angle of Machita. I think you're thinking of which fight was it. I forget, but there was another fight just like that, but it wasn't, it wasn't this one.

Okay, well, that's a phenomenal shot. I mean, there's so much going on there. Machita's reaction to that knockout, I have watched it maybe 50 times because of how he is so,

I mean, he is just so calm and almost like at war within him, about what he had just done. Like you could see there's no celebration there. It is fascinating. He gets down on his knees.

And then, of course, you have Mark Goddard looking over, Belfort. And how about the fact? How about the fact that it's like the same finish? Right? Same finish. How about the fact that Leonardo Machita may have just retired two legends with the same finish? Randy Couture being the other one. Well, then that goes to our, ah, it was Esther telling me it was the,

is our Munchanche fight. Where's that picture? Listen. That's my favorite M.M.A photo of all time. Right over there. You see it? Top corner. Mayhem over Sakuraba with the light like his soul just went up to the sky.

And it was the exact same one. It'd be nice to include that one. You know, we don't get them all. All right? Speaking of Vitor Belfort, here we're going to look at John Enneck talking to him in the cage after the fight. Congratulations for my cheetah team.

It surprised me pretty well. And I want to thank you, my team, TriStar. I want to thank my family. I'm okay. The fans, it's been a long ride. And I think, you know, life is about beginning, middle, and end. And I think I come to the end. So congratulations too much here.

And I'm leaving my glove here. Vitor putting the gloves down in the cage. Do we think this is it? What a great moment that was. I'm so happy that he did this in Brazil, not like Idaho or something. And by the way, I feel bad for the people of Idaho. I keep bringing up Idaho when I try to make a point. I need to lay off them.

It's a great place. Boise State, one of the all-time great turfs in college football, the blue turf. But that was cool. Do I think it's the end? I mean, look what happened in the first hour of today. Yeah, Ladell is sitting here. Oh, it's Vitor Bell for it. Let's find out.

Also, I mean, Vitor has made no secret about dancing around the retirement thing. and also the idea of the master's division in MMA. That's true. So I don't know, but, I mean, if it is, what an incredible career for one of the legends of the sport. 41. Do you feel like he has a complicated legacy? Of course.

I think he does, and I think he will be the first to admit it. In fact, I think I saw during fight week him saying something to that effect. Is he? Saying that his legacy wasn't exactly how he wanted it, but it is what it is, something to that effect. Really? Mm-hmm. I'm surprised.

I'll try and look that up. All right. But I believe he did touch on that during fight week. Interesting. Also from this event, you mentioned this earlier, Alexia Linnick, with the second as he keel choke, him also having the first. Oh, my God.

I mean, do you notice strength? To be on the bottom? Junior Albini. Junior Albini's a big boy. He's good at what he does. If he gets in that position... Look at him, just patting him on the back. It's likely to be done.

Good job, good effort. Congrats to Alexi. One of the all-time great haircuts in MMA as well. Fantastic haircut. Jacked Daniel Day-Lewis. We had him in studio last year. We did. Or was that?

Yeah, last year. It was last year. Okay, we switch over to Bellator now. Oh, yeah. Aaron Pico. The phenom. With the new monster body shot. The prodig.

Let's let this one roll back from the beginning. This was incredible. again with the incredible celebration the celebration is the best I love the celebration but here's the so powerful that Morrison did a backflip

yeah knocked him across the cage of the body yeah Aaron Pico looking like that first fight yeah can be discounted yes that seems like it was

just a bit of an anomaly look that boom oh we're gonna need to see a step up in competition soon but the you know what I'm okay you know

it's funny I was thinking of not saying that because of your whole conversation with Israel Adasania and you seem to be more in that side of the fence in terms of... I'm all for bringing slowly. I don't know why... What? I saw some really crazy tweet. I don't know why people are so...

Ooh, geez. I don't know why people are so... What is going on? Brad Tavares just retweeted a tweet where there's a bunch of, like, what appears to be dead dogs. This is just not good. No, but he's on support of it. He's saying, I hope you die, a slow painful death. I just don't know why anyone would even tweet that.

Yeah, I'm all for the slow build. I'll tell you who isn't. My main man, Lomachenko. That guy is, what is he? 10 and 1 now? Three titles, climbing the ranks. I had so much fun watching him in person. He is so fast.

Did you watch that fight? We will feature him in a moment. But in the meantime, we'll talk about Paul Daly here with John Fitch on his back let's bring up the audio because this will be important

it doesn't sound like that at this stage millions Minnings of fans this is cool for and there the muffled bosal and Paul you should be focused on the fight

and not on us my man and this is where you know Josh is talk about Paul where his heart of his this might be one of my favorite things that's ever happened in MMA Paul Daley booing his own fight

I mean what more needs to be said he said at all I keep watching that the boo John Fitch of the dominant performance Paul Daley not happy about the method of victory here but not doing anything to

to counter it. By the way, what are the chances that Connor McGregor just sent me an email because I was just cleaning out my junk mail and I saw his name, but I deleted it all and now I obviously can't get any of it back. I don't think Connor McGregor would go to your junk mail. I have a feeling that it's Spanish. I saw his name.

Yeah, I'm sure his name was involved with it. I don't usually see his name and now I'm kind of freaking out. What if Connor sent me an email? I think you'll be okay. Connor, if you're watching, please reset. Okay, from that same event. Belator 199

Chekongo getting the finish here Boom A little short right Boom Impressive from Czech It's been a minute It has been a minute

Check Congo also in his 40s Still built like an action figure How about that tweet From the good people over at Belator Putting people on airplane mode That's not bad Yeah he did shut them down But I mean that's a moro

It's a morrow Oh did he say that He said it before yeah Oh, all right. Well, I take back the credit. Look, the social media team still deserves credit for that one. Okay. But I think Morrow's the OG of that, the originator. And we had them on earlier, but worth replaying here.

Ryan Bader getting it done very quickly against King Mo. Unbelievable. Who it seems like is going to drop down to middleweight. Yeah. Impressive. Bader's resume continues to impress. Bader Mitreone, Fyodor, Chale. Who's the favorite? Bader. I mean, come on.

Is it possible that it's, is it Bader, Mitreone and would you say they're the top two? I would, yeah. The winner of that player? But they're on the same side of the bracket. Is Bader Matrione? The final is that?

Is that the Rockets and Warriors? To me, yes. Wow, you just said your calves aren't going to win. You have just conceded. What are you talking about? You just said it. Rockets Warriors. You just said that they're the top two. You just said that you have no faith in your team.

Wow, that is shocking. I would never say that about my team, even if I believe that I would. What team? Which of the seven? What team would you not say that about? All of them? Listen, you like to perpetuate this narrative.

I'm a fan of the sport, basketball, so I'm allowed to have many teams in my team. Oh, okay. That's how that works. Look, then I'm a fan of the Rockets and Warriors, too. I just love them. So what are you saying? You're saying, you're saying Bader, Mitreone,

Chale, Fioro, or Fiorichel? What do you mean? In terms of... are the favorites. How would you rank them? Oh, I think Chale's probably the favorite on that one. Stylistically, I think it's a favorable matchup for him.

But yeah, I think Bader's got to be the odds on favorite for the tournament. Although, Mitreone is a big boy, so it's going to be tough to overcome that size advantage, but I just think skill set wise, Ryan Bader's the most skilled in this tournament, the best fighter overall in this tournament. If he doesn't get

it done, it is because he's a light heavyweight moving into a heavyweight class. And as saw in the fight with King Moe, the size matters, you know, that that's not an easy thing to navigate. And I think Chale could potentially have some problems with Fyodor in that regard. Do you agree with me that with the eight fighters and the matchups that they had at the beginning, that this is the best case scenario, that every fight went the way they wanted it to? Yeah, I guess so. Chale winning, big part of their plans, right?

Fodor winning. And then, and then Mitreone beating Nelson, because I feel like he's on more of them. that's maybe the toss-up, but he's on a role. And then, of course, Bader being your light-heavyweight champion, because it would have been a little weird if Bader lost to a fellow light-heavyweight at the time and still remain champion. So I kind of feel like this was the perfect scenario for them.

Yeah. All right. I think it has played out nicely for them. Continuing to talk about Bellator, we have 50 Cent here tweeting. If we can get this right, it would be big. What is up with 50-cent social media presence? 50 Cent. He's a big Bellator fan.

Yeah. he's in the game. I think we might have an opponent for him. Oh. Because it seems like he's leaning toward fighting. This from Chal Sondon. Just saw this ad. Help wanted immediate hire.

Contemplating a war of words with Chal Sondon. Needed better writers than the ones who write my cheeseball wraps. Send resume and sample of work to Filthy Scent, Failed Old Rappers Home, Bronx, New York. I didn't know that was his address, but... Can I tell you something? I didn't even know. When did he tweet this? Yesterday.

Oh, wow. didn't even know. And I asked him the question, that was a great promo by Chale. But I think if, let's say, you know, Chale doesn't work out. We have another contender. Oh. Was Khalifa saying that he would take an MMA fight if the money is right. But I have actually seen footage. You know, we've seen that footage. I played it on Ricketts and Gano, right? Yeah. And he, you know what? He puts his time in in the gym. He's put out a lot of stuff. I don't think it would be, I don't think it would be as far-fetched as some other talks.

But I don't think he's interested at doing it unless as he says the money's right. So we'll see. He wouldn't be 50 cents weight class. No, 50 cent is a much bigger man. But I just say, I don't tell him is Kalifa. Look at 50 cents Instagram. It's very frustrating.

Do you see that what he did? No. He posted like eight black screens. And at first I was like, what's wrong with my phone, my internet connection? Why does he do that? I think are those just, let's see, Are those just videos that are queued up?

No, they're not. He actually just posted eight black pictures. No, more. 36, nine, 12, 15. Is it not? Maybe he's doing one of those collages? No, he's not. I don't understand what's happening.

And a lot of people, look, he just did it. And look at the comments. People are like, please stop doing this. This is annoying. Other people are having fun with it. But he just posted a bunch of black. I mean, I guess maybe it's leading to something. But I just don't know.

It might be one of those collages or he's just. Does it look like a collage? to you? Not yet. It hasn't taken shape. My theory is that they've got some sort of, you know, guerrilla marketing, social media deal here for him. Like all of a sudden he's weighing in on

Aaron Pico, Lee Morrison. I think, uh, I think 50s angling for a fight. You really think so? Why not? Or pretend that he is? All right. Good business. Okay. Are you in? Stop it. You mentioned this earlier. Had to highlight it.

You know, we spoke last week, I recognized that I made a mistake. Okay, what did you say? You called me out last week after we wrapped up, and you were right. I didn't feature... Oh, yeah. Tensions, incredible knockout from the kickboxing world. Oh, yeah. Because I was trying to stick to... I was trying to stay

too strictly to M. M.M. No. And it was a mistake. M.A. encompasses all these things. It was a mistake. Okay. So I'm rectifying that this week. We have here, Lomachenko's incredible TKO. What a fight. From MSG. After getting knocked down himself.

Yeah, knock down. Linares, I believe, I believe that the scorecards were even heading into this. Incredible. Clearly, the guy is on a different level. Atmospheric in there was great. Brand new head coach for your New York Knicks in attendance, David Fisdale. Look at that. He has that superstar quality and the ratings.

He does. And, I mean, there's more than just the super, like, his skills match the presence. this guy is world class the fight world glued to this and by the way kudos to our friends

over at Reebok they sponsor Mr. Lomachenko he would wear Reebok shoes nice shoes yeah matching shoes

maybe they are turning the ship around I think that's safe to say look they've been they've stepped it up stop no mistake excuse me

don't shut down don't shut down my love for the fine people at Reebok they're the best but yeah I mean Lomachenko the sky is the limit

the challenges are going to be few and far between we have to look for pound for pound best I don't think there's any doubt at this point Terence Crawford here he comes here also

featured on ESPN kicking off on Saturday sports center featured this one Top 10 knockout here from Petch Panama rang Kiev Mukau where was this by the way this was in Leo France

here we go jumping head kick, boom. Were you there? I was not. I was working from home on this one, but he's going to get up on the deer legs. That one's over. How many Twitter followers does SportsCenter have? Millions? I don't know how many.

He makes to get a little glory handle in there, huh? Look, you make the Sports Center top ten, it's okay. This aired on ESPN, correct? This aired on ESPN news earlier in the day. Live? Yeah, live kicking off, because it's France. You know, this kind of, this wrap up right as the prelims for

for UFC 224 we're kicking off so a good night in the world of combat sports we've got even like it feels like it's all highlights this Rick's picks but we got even more this run from Ladies Fight Night 9 another insane kick Barbara

Nalipa let's watch it one more time clearly pumped obviously shout out to the god the gift god Kaposa yes he's currently watching Jakarta Campy Chips 49.

And we thank him for it. Yes. Oh. Nasty knockout from the world of kickboxing. What was up with that that mesh on the bottom? Yeah, it was weird. Half cage, half ring. But here we return to MMA for a moment.

I kind of like that, by the way. Because then you eliminate going through the ropes. But she went through the ropes. Gabby Garcia, getting it done for Road FC, first round. We're in a naked choke. Yeah, you get flattened out by Gabby Garcia. It's not going to be. a fun time.

That is some kind of backpack. But remaining undefeated, Gabby Garcia, with another submission finish. And then this one from Shamrock FC. That is a small kid. The knockout is great. But the knockout reaction. Frozen.

Oh, my dear. Before this clip started, I said there's no way the smaller guys winning this fight. And he won. Yeah, he, He just melted them. See the size of discrepancy? He's crazy.

Melted him. Frozen right in his track. Sweet stash. Chamrock FC. Let's watch this one more time and then we'll move on to the next one. Round one. Boom. Dang.

Frozen. Oh my gosh. That's scary. The great Jesse Finney. Oh, what do we have here? Okay, this one we have Olivier Oven Merci. What? He's becoming my favorite social media person.

He's so great. I think he's taking the. crown from the Derek Lewis's of the world. What is he doing? He was given instructions to look at the camera and he did his best to look at anything but the camera. You can see everybody else here addressing the camera head on.

He's just staring off into the void. This is amazing. By the way, I used to watch this all the time. Tevezpore in Quebec. He says the best part of this is that the crew at Tevezpore told me not, oh, told me two looked directly at the camera. Needless to say that it's the only place I didn't look. Literally doing anything to not look at the... Now, what is the no and then the fox emoji? What does that mean?

I don't know. I think he's been doing that recently. I think that's like a thing of his. He is, and also the stash is back. Oh. Indeed. Congratulations to Scott Holtzman. Hot sauce. And his wife for welcoming eight ounces 20 inches long that's good yeah muzzlesho that's amazing thanks are our sauce squad it's always tough when you're taking the photo post no that's the best time yeah everybody's elated but that's that's that's a surgical procedure so you know i i have so much respect for the mothers on this post mother's day monday yeah what they go through you were there were you in the room i was in the room i was right there it's unimaginable.

In fact, the doctor passed out and I had to do it. And that was rough. Ray Borg, providing one update here, we've been following this saga as we wait here in Denver

for Anthony's recovery. A go fund me was started to help Anthony's medical bills. All is greatly appreciated. If you can, check Ray Borg's Twitter and give if you can. A go fund me to cover his bills.

I believe they're about halfway there so could still use some help. And you feel for because, of course, he didn't fight in Brooklyn, and he's supposed to fight this weekend. That's right. Lost a paycheck on that one. In Chile.

So definitely thinking about Ray Borg and his family. I've texted with him a little bit, and the way he's handling this, like the strength that he has, is incredibly impressive. Yeah, a lot of things, you know, happening in his life, but giving our thoughts to the board family.

Wayne Rooney, shouting out Darren Till, saying, looking forward to watching Darren Till, do business in less than two weeks. The UFC will be in Liverpool for the first time. Brilliant achievement. Good luck. So the great Wayne Rooney of Everton fans. This really makes me feel bad right now. I have gotten my hands on the brand new Everton kit. Okay. Show it off. And I meant to show it off. And however, I'm such a big fan. I have multiple kits now. I took the wrong one. The wrong one in my bag. Interesting how that happened.

But I think it's actually meant to be because next week, of course, will be liver. April fight week, and so it would be apropos to feature it on the set. So I'm very excited about it having it, but I meant to show it off today. We'll have to wait until next week. Huh. Funny that. Okay, we'll see it next week.

Oh, Johnny Bones, weighing in. I know. You saw that? I did. I didn't have time to grab that one. It just happened. No, no. No, he tweeted it before that. Oh. No, he did. Wait, so then maybe I missed something. No, well, you know what he does with some social media posts. Well, this came up 43 seconds ago.

That's not the original one. Old Chuck has been calling me out for years. I get it. I hold pretty much every record in the division. I normally try to respect my elders. But if you want it, come get it. I'd literally fly you out to Albuquerque this weekend. What have we done?

What have we done? The original tweet that was then deleted was, Oh, Chuck. Dot, dot, dot. Oh, this is better. Lipsies. Yeah. Well, this is an actual address of the,

of the circumstance. Wow. Oh. There's so much that we learn here. This is from chocolate corruption. He says, come on, guys. The two emojis. Oh, no F-U-C-Ks.

I believe it. He's giving no box on Twitter. He's on a different level. He is my number one at the moment. The Canadian gangster. And also... Who knew? He was such an unknown yeah

like funny person and I actually there was a report last week that he is fighting um Alex Hernandez he told me that the report when it came out wasn't true

but now there is actually some validity to it but at the time that it wasn't done so yeah that's a big one okay we're going to wrap Rick's picks with this post from Daniel Farrow

oh who enabled and play the latest episode Okay, playing the latest episode of the MMA hour Who enabled his Alexa How's as possible? To play the MMA hour. Incredible.

That familiar music. So shout out to Daniel for figuring out how to hack that. Not shout out to Daniel for not tagging me in the original post. Tagging literally everybody who works at MMA fighting. Unbelievable. Except for the one person who does the part of the show. where they feature things like this. I love the...

I love Alexis accent. Oh, I love his accent. Listen. Yeah, it's so soothing. So sweet. I don't think my... Yes? I don't think my Alexa

speaks in that accent. Yeah, I think that's because his Alexis in a different country than yours. Oh, I see. Well, that's very cool. Thanks for doing that. Hopefully that can be available wider.

Yeah. Follow Daniel to find out. Okay, we're going to do questions now. Okay. We are going to start with the MMA or question of the day. How do you feel about Raquel Pennington's corner's decision not to stop the fight going into the fifth round?

Ariel Hawani offering to agree or disagree? Oh, I like the way you positioned that. What? Go on. I honestly don't even know what you're talking about. But with nearly 19,000 votes, the majority of you, 72% disagree with her corner's decision

to not stop the fight to send her back out there. 28% agree. Surprised by that? No. No, neither am I. I think the majority will fall on that side.

Opinion changed at all after hearing from Raquel and her coach. Well, I was referencing that some people were saying like, oh, where's the neutral vote, right? Like, where's that option? And to me, it's like, if you're neutral, that means you agree. Like if you don't have a problem with it, that means that you are okay with it

in my opinion. I think that's fair to say yeah. If you're neutral, that means that you aren't against it. Yeah. So like, that's agree. That's silly. So I saw a lot of people saying that. What was the question again? Have you, have you has your mind been influenced at all

by hearing from Raquel, hearing from her coach? Have you changed your opinion at all? Does it remain the same? In short, no. she was actually more injured than I thought. And again, the one thing that a lot of people brought up was, what if she has a history of this? Well, Jason, to his credit, confirmed that she doesn't have a history of speaking like this.

She said she was on the verge of throwing up when she felt that in the first round. Could you imagine? My, oh, my. I always thought it was a little soon for her to come back after an injury of that severity. So again, I mean, I think, he answered all the questions. I think the majority of the questions were asked, and I think he was

in a tough spot. There's no doubt about it. If you're asking me, take aside this, you know, what should be done in that situation? I feel better about what happened with Marquard in the sense that he says, I'm done. Corner asks, and I think he did concede that, you know, in hindsight, maybe he should have asked one more time and put it back on her. Yeah. It obviously didn't go very long afterwards. So I appreciate them coming on and I think that at the end of the day, we have to take their word. Yeah. And whatever is their career, it's their reputation, their life. But I feel like in a case like this, we're all allowed to have an opinion. Absolutely. You know, I always feel weird when people say like, oh, you've never fought, you've never done it. Well, you know, everyone who

weighs in on, you know, politics hasn't run for president. You know, everyone who who weighs in on film hasn't written. That argument doesn't hold water. So that's my opinion. But I've said a lot this this show. What about you? What do you think? After hearing from them, I think ultimately

everybody, this is a very, this is a polarizing thing. People want to be right or wrong. And I think ultimately, I don't know if there is a right or wrong answer.

I don't think we can unequivocally say that a fight needs to be stopped based on this information. I don't think we can unequivocally stay a fight shouldn't be stopped.

Given this exact scenario, I'm personally okay after hearing from them, after hearing from them, that they are okay with the consequences of that action. And I have to, it doesn't matter whether I feel that, you know, if I was in there, I'd want this to happen because that's not the scenario. Or if, you know, this circumstance happened again, I'd want this to happen because that's not the scenario. In this very specific scenario, Raquel Pennington went out there for the fifth round.

We heard from Raquel, we heard from her coach who say, they're ultimately able to live with this decision and in fact this is the decision that they would have wanted made. So I can't I can't go against that. At a certain point, the fighter has to have the agency and the coach has to have the agency to make that decision. And I'm okay with it. Do I think that there's a right or wrong answer? I don't. I really don't.

I think it depends every single case by every single case. and the people that have to then go forward in their careers with this decision are the ones that ultimately we have to defer to in my opinion. Yeah. It's a fascinating topic. I don't know if I agree that there's like I would err on the side of if the fighter says she's done, she's done. Sure. But I agree in that there will never be like a black and white. The people who are more concerned with being right about this than, you know, weighing the possibilities of this and actually listening to the people that are involved and actually listening to the different opinions are down the wrong path.

This is not a, I'm right, your wrong scenario. This is something that's way more important than that. And this is something that deserves much more care and consideration than that, than, you know, being right on the right side of the argument. there is there in my opinion i don't think there is a right side to the argument i think all of this matters by the the parties involved the circumstances involved and no two cases are going to be the same because you're dealing with different people different quantities um different circumstances um in this case we heard from them and and they are ultimately happy with their decision um it will be interesting to see how this affects the next fight that's the that's the

the real determination of this right now ultimately um there is saying they're happy with it, but let's see what happens in the next fight. Should the scenario repeat with the same fighter, with the same coach, a different decision may be made or maybe the same decision is made. The future will be the best indicator of kind of what happened here. Do you think, Chris says, do you think the UFC was sending a message to its fighters by cutting Yaiyar Rodriguez? I do think that there has been, I do think that there has been some frustration

we saw with the welterweight division, we've seen it in the lightweight division. I do think that there has been some frustration in getting people to fight. And I think part of that is the rankings. I think maybe part of that is the sale and just sort of this new mindset when it comes to, you know, accepting fights and advancing your career and how much you're getting paid, etc. And I do think that at some point someone was going to become expendable. And so I do think that that came into play to a degree. How much of a degree, it's very hard to say. Again, we haven't heard from either party at this point.

So it's hard to say. But I don't think it was just the Zabit situation. And I don't think it was necessarily just, you know, the tweet, the hashtag fake news. I think the tweet was the final nail in the coffin, so to speak. But I think that there was just a difference of opinion about where to go next, what to do next, what direction to go in next. I would love nothing more than to hear from you a year at this point. I'd love nothing more than to hear from the UFC at this point. It's a certainly controversial decision, but I do think that there is some frustration these days in getting people to fight and accepting fights when they need them to accept fights because there's so many events and there's holes to fill.

And they wanted to put on a big fight in Los Angeles. So yeah, that came into play to what degree it's hard to say. Our next question, did the USC make a mistake by putting Raquel against Amanda Nunes? after being out for nearly two years due to various injuries. Was this too soon for Raquel anyway? Regardless of what happens, you know, between rounds, was this too early for her to jump into a title site? I mean, she agreed to it.

Maybe she felt like this was her chance. So, you know, only she can really weigh in on all that. By the other, why did this person tag Chuck Ladell on the question? I think it was responding in response to like a tweet of us saying like Chuck's coming up next or something. Oh, okay. So she agreed to it. But I do recall thinking like, wow, I can't believe she's coming back so soon. But at the end of the day, she can only really weigh in on that.

It is important to note that she really suffered serious injuries. You remember she talked about almost suffering. You know, she suffered that leg injury. She almost had to amputate her leg. So that's a really quick turnaround. I was surprised. But at the end of the day, you know, that's playing. the hindsight game.

Yeah. I think she would take that fight every single time. It's her opportunity to win that belt. Who would make a good matchup for McKenzie turn next? And if she misses weight again, should you be forced to move to 125? A lot of talk about forcing her up to 25. Who should she face next? And in what division are we?

Look, I think she's actually a really small flyway. You know, like, excuse me, a really small straw weight. I don't think she would be good for flyweight. She's short. you know, she's not that big of a person. I just think she needs to get with the right kind of team and nutritionist and get the diet on point and figure it out. I think she is best suited for 115. And has made weight before.

It has made weight before. She's had trouble making the weight. Yeah. Almost every fight, even the UFC debut. But, you know, I really do think that she can do it. it's just a matter of applying herself and having, you know, you need to have

at this stage, at this level and it was, I thought, very interesting that she guaranteed she'll make way from here on now, but at this level you need to have someone. You really do need to have someone. Well, especially if this is a problem. Yeah. Not everybody needs that extra

you know, assistance with it, but if she wants to be serious about contending for a title in this division, it's important. I just went to UFC.com slash rank at the top of the page it says Monday April 23rd. I'm not sure why it says that. But I wonder if it hasn't been updated since then. I still don't think that you're putting it in there

against one of the top 15 fighters in that division. I still think that you need to take your time with her. Yeah, that top 15 is tough. Yeah. That top 15 is tough. Although Angela Hill's looking for a fight. She's on social media looking for a fight. Oh, with Dern or just in general?

Just in general? That seems a little too soon. seems a little too soon, don't you think? Pictures asking for the matchmakers. Yes and no. Yes, from the sense that it would clearly be the best competition she's faced. But no in the sense that stylistically, she's going to be able to be competitive with a lot of this top 15 just based on her skill set. Even though she doesn't have the level of experience, her experience in that one area is so vast that she will, I think she will be,

competitive with nearly everybody here because of how good she is at what she does. That once she gets it to the ground it's going to be tough for anybody in this division to handle that. And look, she's developing, I mean,

she's dropping people now, you know? Yeah, I mean, it's still needs to be tightened up, but I mean, that's something. Well, there's also something to be said about a willingness to engage, right? Like there's there's something in her in her mentality and her skills that she's not afraid of that, which is a great indicator for somebody who has that, you know, grappling skill set that she can fall back on.

She's not afraid to trade. She's not afraid to strike. She's been hit hard and stayed in the fight much more so than, you know, could have been expected this early in her career. career. She seems to be adapting to that well. So I think the sky's the limit for her. She needs to get the weight in order. But I think as a prospect, I don't know that she'd have trouble implementing her game plan against a lot of the top 15, even though I think that the gap in experience is obviously vast. I would even concede she's turning out to be a better prospect than I thought. Yeah, she's very good. But let's not ignore the fact that she weighed, she weighed in seven pounds more, and they saved four and a half.

You know, I'd love to hear from Amanda Cooper on that, but... That is a huge advantage. Huge. That is a huge advantage. Not only from someone on the ground. The size is not the biggest advantage. It's the fact that Amanda Cooper,

as a professional, had to go through that cut and had to make it. McKenzie did it. That, or stopped at a certain point. That is a huge advantage, let alone the difference in size on fight. night, the fact that she didn't have to push herself the same way gives her a big advantage coming into the cage. But as far as skill set, I mean, I think she's fantastic. Yeah, and that's

another thing that is just impossible to quantify. Yeah, you can't say how much that's worth. The road to the scale, what that does to you on fight night. Although actually, there is a statistic, and I believe I saw this from Mike Bond, that fighters who have missed weight. Second Mike Bonn shout out in one show. Fighters who have missed weight and gone on to fight are now six and oh. Yeah, that's incredible. So you almost can quantify missing weight on the scale. Like it matters and it matters for the opponent who's having to continue to cut that weight. Okay.

Friend of the show. Yes. UFC's biggest fan on four wheels, Jason Jones. Oh, yes. Great, Jason. Can you touch on this today? I'm going to have to buy ESPN Plus to be able to watch. We'll fight pass.

Be worthless then. A lot of people confused about the idea of some of the content that is going to live on US. Sorry, ESPN Plus, that is not the scheduled events. Well, to reiterate what I said on the beat, again, and I know Jason lives and I believe Kansas City. He does. Kansas, yeah. Yeah. So this is just an American deal. So it doesn't affect people in Canada. It doesn't affect Europe, Brazil, etc. Those events will obviously be available somewhere. But ESPN Plus, to the best, my knowledge, is just in America. So that's first. Second of all, yeah, if you do want to watch those 15 events, it does appear as though you'll need ESPN Plus. What that means for FightPass, quite on. honestly, hasn't been addressed. And quite frankly, I don't know if there is an answer to that

right now, a definitive answer. The idea that was thrown out reported by Jeremy Bauter, to me, sounds like the best idea for all, and that is ESPN Plus costs $4.99. And then Fight Pass costs currently $9.99. What Bader reported was for an X. So if you get ESPN plus to watch those 15 events and the other programming that they're going to have, for an extra $5, which would equal $9.99, you also get UFC FightPass, which they said would be available via the app. So now for 999, you're getting FightPass as you were paying for it, same price, but you're also getting ESPN Plus, those 15 events, which are more events than you are getting right now as far as UFC only events from start to finish. And oh, by the way, if you're a sports fan,

you're getting a ton of other sports content. 30 for 30s. They have some new boxing shows, new NHL shows. Just go on the app, you'll see all the stuff that they have, exclusive stuff and whatnot. So to me, if that does in fact prove to be true where you're getting for 99 Fight Pass Plus and everything else on Plus,

that to me is a great deal because that's way more than you're getting right now for 999. But they haven't come out and said that. I've tried to get some confirmation. And it just doesn't seem like it's there and available right now. Maybe that's still yet to be worked out. But as you said, like if you're getting that extra content, it seems like a good deal. Especially if you were paying for Fight Pass.

Yeah. If you already a subscriber. Yeah. But who knows maybe there's a way to make certain shows exclusive. It seems like that's still being ironed out, but I'm sure. Make no mistake about it. This is a dream come true for Dana White. He has always wanted to be in business with ESPN here in North America.

They had a deal in the UK before BT, but this has always been something that he has wanted to see come to fruition. It's for good amount, it's for what they were making from the Fox deal, and it's just 15 events. It's just 15 fight night events. So who knows what they're going to get for the Fox deal. And of course,

they were hoping to get in the 400s. They might actually get there. If they're getting that amount for 15 fight nights on ESPN Plus, they're obviously going to get more for TV, you would think. So that's notable. And also the other thing that needs to come into play is, you know, when you're in ESPN property, you're going to get more coverage. You're a part of the rotation. There's, you know, there's a lot of value in that as well.

So right now, the new ownership, they haven't fully announced, you know, where everything is going to air come 2018. No, come 2019, excuse me. Yeah. But they're off to a good start. I would say that they're off to a better start than a lot of people predicted. Yeah, there was a lot of doom and gloom predicted. Yeah. And I think that there is value in what they did in terms of announcing this now because they're letting the other TV properties know.

This is what we got for 15 events on ESPN Plus. Yeah. You're going to have to come to the table with more if you want the rest, the prelims and all that stuff. So it's going to be interesting to see how many pay-per-views are available, right? Are they going to six now, eight now, ten now? How many prelims, things of that nature? I don't know if you've played around with the app, but it's really good. I have.

I have downloaded it. and you can customize it. So I think it's a win for the UFC. We'll see what happens with the rest of it, but I think it's a good start. Yeah. Dave Meltzer from MMA Fighting had a good article on it today. Last question.

What would you say the hardest part of the show is? Booking, getting them on the phone or Skype, asking the pressing questions, not using the bathroom for seven hours or something else. Is it all of the above? How do we answer this, Ariel? What's the toughest part of this? I can't read.

I'm trying to... Booking the guests, getting them on the phone or Skype, asking the pressing questions, not using the bathroom for seven hours, or something else. I would say booking the guess. I mean, just today we saw with trying to get Raquel and their coach here, getting Chuck Adele to come in.

I mean, to get these people to come in. And that's why I always get emotional at the end of the show because I am so thankful that these people actually took time out of their day. They probably wanted to do a million other things. and it's one thing to do it on the phone, which is very much appreciated. But then you have to fire up your Skype machine. You have to sit there. You've got to make a nice looking background.

You're driving like Israel was. You're waking up early. I mean, it's just amazing what they give to us. It really is. And for what? I mean, probably their lives would be easier if I didn't bother them. So I truly appreciate it. But at the end of the day, to get them to commit, to get them to say yes, to figure it all out like a puzzle.

Damien Maya is flying in, you know, coordinate with his, his, his manager, coach, Eduardo Alonzo, one of my favorite people in the sport, get him to the hotel. You know, there's so many variables. Cody Garbrand flying from L.A.X to JFK and then coming straight from the airport,

I mean, it's just, what can you say? So I'm not saying, by toughest, I'm not saying it's the least enjoyable part. Probably the bathroom part is the least enjoyable part. But that is the toughest because I always want, I want to try to get the best show possible every time. And I don't want it to just be a run-of-the-mill type of show.

So that would probably be the toughest part. I start thinking about next week's show, like the moment I say, piece I'm out of here and trying to top this week's show. So I would say that's the toughest part. But I love it. It's fun. It's so great to come on a Monday and say, all right, now we could speak about it all, right? Like something just, there's nothing like that Saturday when there's a ton going on. And I know that I can come and talk to you on Monday about it.

And there it is. there it is that's it folks we wrap up another Monday the MMA hour we're done there he is bye bye Ken Rick

good luck to your Cavaliers down um for losers they're gonna win okay all right thank you very much Mr. New York Rick

so 224 on the books 199 in the books UFC back this weekend in Santiago Chile as I said one is back a full slate. We'll be back on Monday to talk about all that and a whole lot more. For now, though, we shall say goodbye. Mr. Austin, you can hit my music. Old Chuck has been calling me out for years. I get it. I hold pretty much every record in the division.

I normally try to respect my elders, but if you want to come and get it, I'd literally fly you out to Albuquerque this weekend. Jonathan Dwight Jones. What have we done, my friends? What have we done? Well, that was fun. Chuck Ladell in person. What an honor. So exciting. So great that he was actually here. The man doesn't live here, of course, here for a great charity, the Robin Hood Foundation. And he took some time out. I do believe he brought his kids to the studio as well. How cool is that? That was great. Thank you very much to Chuck Lidl for joining us. And welcome back. How about that? Welcome back, Chuck Ladell. Thank you very much to Ryan Bader.

Congratulations to him on his big win over King Mohammed Llewal. Thank you very much to Dustin Porier. Good luck to him on July 30th. Excuse me, July 28th, UFC on Fox 30 in Calgary, Alberta, Canada, one of the most beautiful cities I've ever been to. Western Canada. It's great there. Sunsets at like 11 p.m. in the summertime.

And, of course, thank you very much to Eddie Alvarez for joining us. And coming on at the same time. How fun was that? We haven't done that in a while. Thank you very much to Chels Sun. And appreciate his time. As always, good luck to him against Fodor. Fyodor Emilianenko.

Thank you very much to Damian Maya. Good luck to him this Saturday against Kamar Usman. Thank you very much to Israel at Asana. Good luck to him in July. Thank you very much. And congratulations to McKenzie Dern. Thank you so very much to Raquel Pennington and her coach, Jason Kutz. Appreciate their time very much.

Back next week, same time and play, still say peace. Amadio.