MMA Fighting - The MMA Hour: Episode 479 (Rose Namajunas, Michael Chandler, Neiman Gracie)

Episode Date: May 6, 2019

On this episode of The MMA Hour, Luke Thomas speaks to Rose Namajunas about her UFC title defense against Jessica Andrade at UFC 237, the strawweight division, Lion King, more; Michael Chandler about his title defense against Patricio Freire at Bellator 221, USADA and drug testing, more; Neiman Gracie about his upcoming fight with Bellator welterweight champ Rory MacDonald, MacDonald’s recent comments about outlook in MMA, and more. We also take your questions on the latest news in MMA on Sound Off and A Round of Tweets. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. It is Monday, April 6th, 2019, and this is the MMA hour right here on MMAFining.com. Thank you guys so much for joining me. I greatly appreciate it. My name is Luke Thomas. I am the host of this program. Did you miss me? Probably not.

But I missed you. And as a consequence of how long I was gone, I wanted to make sure we came back with a big show. So that's exactly what we're going to do today. Not one, two champions on the show today. Number one, you are UFC strawweight champion. Rose Nama Yunus will be here. We'll talk to her about facing Jessica Androj and UFC 237. Bellator Lightweight champ.

Michael Chandler's going to be here. He faces Patricio Pitbull at Bellator 221, putting his title on the line. We'll talk about that as well with him. Manager in charge, Dominance M.M.A. CEO, Mr. Controversy himself. Ali Abdel-Aziz is going to be here in studio, making his MMA hour, at least under my auspices, debut. and the Bellator Welterweight Grand Prix semi-finalist Neiman Gracie is going to be here as well

also right here in studio. Plus, you're going to be my guest not one but two different ways. First, of course, with your tweets, thank you for sending them using the hashtag the MMA hour. Keep sending them. We always appreciate that when you do.

And keep lighten up the phones. Call 244. What am I saying? 844-866-2468. One more time of that number, 844-866-2468. International callers, as always, can email us the MMA hour at voxmedia.com. Yeah? Okay, let me get a sip of this oil and watch it simmer and boil. By the way, I said this to the boys in the back. They finally had some artificial sweetener today here in the Vox Media offices. If you are against artificial sweeteners, you're the

anti-vaxers of sweet things. That's what you are, because if you're, if you're you're, you're If you pay attention to what the science actually says, it's perfectly fine for you. I know folks don't think that because they hear what their grandmother's cousin-brother said, but it's not true. I'm going to have this and I'm going to enjoy it. Mmm. You know what that tastes like? Deliciousness.

I don't know. I had a better punchline, but I botched it because I'm tired. All right. So I spoke to the UFC strawweight champ yesterday. She flies to Brazil today. She faces Jessica And Drage and UFC 237 in your M. main event. Here's my conversation with Rose Nama Unis. All right. And I am joined now by the UFC Strawway Champion of the world, Rose Nambi Unis,

who defends her title against Jessica on Drogh at UFC 237 this upcoming weekend. Rose, are you currently in Brazil or no? No, I'm at home. Yeah, we need tomorrow. Ah, tomorrow. Have you, what's the furthest the way you've ever competed from home? The furthest, I think, is New York. Oh, no. Well, I guess technically, back when I was in high school, I did a, I flew to Portugal to do a pancreation tournament. But that was like when I was in, I was about like maybe 16, 17.

So what are you feeling about going to Brazil? Nerves like in a good way, excited about the travel? What do you think? you know it's always kind of I mean this time is different from any other time obviously it's it's always unique oh wait hold on one second um yeah it's this time it's uh it's pretty scary I say you know it's kind of I feel like I'm in uncharted territory even though I have a lot of experience um there's a lot of things that I do know but there's definitely a lot of unknowns going into this one. In terms of just being in a foreign country? Yeah, I think

that and you know I spent I spent you know not just the last year fighting the same girl, Yawanna, but then years prior to that even after you know, having other opponents

I still was thinking about her so this is the first time where I'm not thinking about her I'm thinking about somebody else and thinking about Andrage and you know at the end of the day it's always just a fight against myself So, you know, just remembering that has been a challenge, but, you know, it's something that I'm going to overcome. Do you feel like popularity-wise, the worm has turned? And the reason why I asked that is because from the outside, looking in, it feels that way.

Now, you kind of live a life that, it sounds to me like give a, I mean, this is a positive way. It's also of a simple life. But have you felt like the weight, not the weight, but the, do you feel that the popular? turn yourself? Sorry, you cut off for a second. Yeah, I'm saying, do you feel the popularity turn yourself, yeah? Turned towards me?

Yeah, in terms of like how much it's grown. Yeah, I guess it's hard for me to pay attention to that, like really to quantify that in my head. I think that, you know, I think more and more people like slowly are always, I feel like my popularity is always growing over time at a steady rate. I mean, this isn't, you know, success overnight. Even after getting the belt, it was, it's just been kind of the steady incline ever since, you know, my career started.

So let's talk about USC 237 taking on your opponent, Jessica Andrage. You know, sort of we know what we have here to a degree, right? Super powerful. I used to be a bantam weight even. when you size her up, how do you estimate what you are up against? I'm up against a very experienced, well-rounded, vulnerable opponent

who's got a lot of great physical qualities. You know, she also has a lot of experience. So on the mental side, she's also, she's a pretty complete fighter, I will say. As far as, like, physically, you know, is concerned. I feel like, you know, my body type, I think it's better, it's better for MMA, but at the same time, you know, it's just going to come down to, yeah, just me being myself,

and that's really there all this to it. You know, I don't challenge it, but I would love to hear your explanation for it. What is it about your body type that you think is more suited for MMA? I'm more dynamic. I think I can do it all, whereas she's a short fighter. She has to close a distance. She can't. There's certain things that she has to do in this fight.

And for me, I have a lot of options. I don't have to do one particular thing. So, yeah, I'm just more dynamic. And, you know, it's all I guess, the only requirements are just being myself. Certainly. Were you able, it's hard for me to ask this question because, you know, I'm not in a camp. I don't know either what your strategy might be. or how you prep or prep, but is it foolish to ask?

Are you able to take anything from how your other opponent, you want any of Jacek, fodder? Yeah, I think that, you know, she just didn't let anything face her. I think that was mainly the key ingredients to her success. You know, I think that stylistically, you know, she did a good job at defending the takedowns and just keep snapping the jab.

and just constant movement. And, you know, those are things that, you know, obviously we take into consideration. We know that Andrash has trouble with movement. You know, she kind of just comes forward. She calls herself the tractor and she just plots forward. So, yeah, if you try to stop a tractor head on, you might have some problems. But, you know, you just, if you just roll out of the way out of a tractor, I mean, it can't roll you over. It's a fair point.

Anything analogous to what you faced? How similar is she to anybody else you fought before in any context? I think she's pretty unique, I'd say. I don't think I've ever fought anybody quite like her. I think that there's parts of her that kind of remind me of Pat Berry in a way, you know, just the way that when she fought at 35, she was fighting. girls that were, you know, way bigger, but she kind of just like always surprised people, you know, just how explosive and how, you know, regards of her size, she was able to, you know,

be a dangerous opponent no matter what. So in that sense, she kind of reminds me of Pat in the way, you know, but then there's times where, I mean, I guess at 115, she's been pretty consistent other than fighting Yonah, but she's kind of, she's kind of got a, you know, she's always going to come and fight hard, but, you know, I see, I've seen her, yeah, yeah, I just, I just noticed that, you know, there's certain things that she has to do when she gets in there.

She has to get close, and, yeah. I was going to ask you about this earlier, but I tabled it because I wanted to discuss Jessica, but, you know, every fighter dreams of doing what you're doing, right? Traveling the world, defending a title, being in the UFC, it's kind of great. Is being the champion fun? I don't mean fighting. I mean being the champion.

Yeah. At the moment, you know, it's, it is fun, but it's, you know, it's definitely a challenge to remember that and to remind yourself to keep having fun, you know. I will say it's not always fun. There's time where, I mean, today's, been kind of one of those days, but you just got to keep fighting and keep pushing along. I was looking at your Instagram in preparation for this interview, and it's something I've been thinking about for a while, but I saw some things there that reminded me of it.

How long would you say that you had what I would describe, and maybe you don't think this is a fair characterization, but I bet you do. How long would you say you've had a special connection to animals? since I was born since I could remember I guess How did you know that? What was the moment where you realized you had a bond with them?

Yeah, I guess You know Since I can remember, I always was like You know, drawing pictures of animals That always had a bunch of stuffed animals Like all the time Lion King was like my favorite movie be um you know and then in a kindergarten they asked us what we wanted to be when we grew up and um

i said i wanted to be a farmer and so yeah that's just been and it's and it still hasn't changed i still you know right now where i'm sitting at i'm sitting outside looking at my uh my raspberry bushes that we just planted in the garden so i'm just getting you know uh each step closer every day to doing really what i want to do i mean obviously uh makes marshal arts is a huge part of my life and it's always going to be. And this is something that I love doing as well. But, you know, I think gardening is like the only thing or just, you know, yeah, gardening is about, it comes pretty close to comparing with fighting

in terms of how much I love it. What are the things you like to grow? So right now we have, we got some tomato plants, some cucumbers. we have raspberry bushes, herbs, flowers. We've even got some eggplant. And, you know, being in Colorado, we also got weed plants too. I can certainly imagine. That's got to be legal, right?

Yeah. Yeah, it's completely legal here. So, you know, that's just, yeah. That's funny. I've heard weed is hard to grow. Is that true? it's um you know it's it's not as hard as uh i'd say it's not harder than like growing tomato plants i think people just make all these rules and you know this is what you have to do and you have to

do the pH level and you have to this many hours and do this and do that and we just kind of like you know go with what we feel and you know i guess that kind of applies to a training camp as well like, you know, people always say, like, you got to carve up, man, or you got to eat your protein, or you got to train for this many hours and do this thing and do this stretch. And, you know, sometimes I kind of do that to myself as well. I make all these rules for myself. And then when it gets down to it, it's just like it's a fight. You either can fight or you can't, you know.

Yeah, I can certainly imagine. A couple more questions for you really appreciate your time. You know, is another thing that sort of occurs to me when I think about your career and your trajectory and some of the things you take seriously. one of them is, and I don't, I guess I also mean physical rehabilitation, but one of the things I think you take seriously that a lot of fighters don't is self-care, right? Thinking about their lives, the things they need to do to live in a healthy, balanced way. Why is it you think you're a bit of an outlier in that regard where a lot of other athletes don't,

again, they might take the ice baths and, you know, lay off the sparring, but that's, there's more to it than that, and you seem to have picked up on that. How come no one else has or not many people have? I mean in terms of like psychologically or just like there's more to life than merely aiding and abetting the body right? Yeah, I mean, and that's the thing. It's like, you know, I think me just given my certain genetics and my upbringing and everything like that, like I know that I'm born with a lot of talent and skill. And also, you know, I have a great work ethic as well. and a lot of my life I spent, you know, I didn't really have much of a childhood because I was always just like working, working, working all the time.

And, you know, it's gotten to me where I am today. So it's like a blessing. But at the same time, it's like, you know, I realize the importance of also like being able to have fun and try not to put too much pressure on myself because what's it? Oh, yeah. But, so, you know, I think this with my, my father not being in my life because of, you know, his mental illness and stuff, it's kind of like, he's, that's kind of a reminder for me to just, like, try to reach my potential as much as possible. And, like, you know, just because I may have all the excuse, I can come up with all the excuses in the world to, like, not do something or, you know, like, you know, I don't, I didn't have to take this fight. have to come to Brazil and leave, leave my home to fight this girl. You know, but at the same time, it's like huge opportunity, and it's a great, it's a great

way to, you know, reach my potential and, uh, and give it a shot, you know, and if, if, if that doesn't happen, then, then, you know, that's meant to be and that's, that's, that's really there all is to it. But, you know, I just have to do my best. I shouldn't just, like, waste it and, you know, just turn into a vagabond on a street, you know, because I can totally do that any minute now. It is a little bit unusual though, right, that you're going to the Challenger's hometown. Seems to be even make more sense that they would go to yours.

But I guess they're trying, obviously they're trying to till the soil, so to speak, of the Brazilian market. I guess that's all you attributed to. I don't really know what the reason is. I think, I mean, I don't know. To me, I just think, like, all I can, all I know is that it's just a great opportunity for me.

One to not only just have like a really cool, experience and meet all my Brazilian fans. And that's just something that I've had opportunities to go to Brazil before, but it's never lined up quite the way I wanted it to. So, you know, it's just a great opportunity for me. And that's kind of how I'm really looking at it as. And I'm just going to try to make the best of it. All right.

So here's the most important question for you. Are you going to see the new Lion King, like live action thinking when it comes out? Um, you know what? Uh, I, I have a feeling that the live action ain't going to be as good as the, the, the cartoon, you know what I mean? Like, just kind of like, it just seems weird, you know? I don't know. It is a little bit of a little bit of a lot of.

I saw a trailer today. It looked pretty good. Really? Okay. Cause, you know, I, I'll probably have to check that out, but, um, because I don't really stay current on movies that will, but, or like, TV for that matter. However, we, I finally gave it. and gave Avengers a chance the last one.

And so it was actually really good. And I usually don't like superhero movies or anything like that. And I actually don't even really care for movies that much anymore. But that one was actually like way better than I was expecting. And maybe I'll check out the new Avengers movie that just came out. I just saw it, actually. It was actually pretty good. If you like the last one, you'll like this one too.

That's my Luke Thomas guarantee, all right? Yeah. I really appreciate Say again? I said I heard it was really good So yeah, I'll check it off. It is definitely very good. You'll enjoy it.

But of course you got bigger action to take care of at UFC 237. Congratulations on the headlining slot. We really appreciate your time. Safe travels. Can't wait to see you fight. All right. Thank you, man.

Thank you so much. And there she goes. Rose Namibunis. Appreciate her stopping by on the show today. Best of luck in Brazil. Looking forward to UFC 27 this weekend. Let's call a bit of an audible because I want to give more time to it. It might be my favorite segment.

Monday morning, this is up there. Five hundred of years is pretty good. But why don't we do this? Why don't we call a bit of an audible? Let's do the sound off right here on the show. All right. Sound off time. Time for me to check in with my main squeeze.

The lime to... I got a good one for you. Ready? The lime to my chicharon. How about that? Hey, that's what I like that one. All right. How are you doing?

Did you miss me? Probably not. That's all right. No, no, of course. Yeah, I missed the show, missed everyone. First of all, how are you? Congrats on the baby. How you feeling?

Tired. But what else is new? I bet. But MMA media has trained you well, right? It's a performance. Yeah, exactly. People are like, oh, my God, it's going to change your sleep. No, it's not.

I'm well trained for this. I don't know what y'all were talking about. It's a little bit less sleep, but it's just a, I have to just sort of rejigger how I do it. Right. But it's great, man. The baby was healthy. Wife is a bit run down, as you can well imagine, but healthy.

Yeah. And I send all my love to her and my little one. me, he's doing great. She put on, I was saying this, I told them Monday it was not quite right. People don't know this. Babies are born and then they lose weight because they're getting food on demand

through the umbilical cord. Yeah, I had no idea about that. And if you go right to formula, they don't. But if you decide to breastfeed, it could be a bit of a gap between birth and when the mother starts producing milk. Anyway, so she lost a little bit of weight. And then we had to go get her checked out.

We went home from the hospital on a Monday and we had to go to get her checked out on a Tuesday. And they were like, yeah, she's lost even more. here's what you got to do. But then my wife began to breastfeed her because it began to work out. By Friday, she had gained a pound and a half. Bro, in four days.

Yeah. She's out there getting fat. So I was very happy to see that. Yeah, bulking. It's bulking season. Anyway, long story short, man, I'm bringing people with stories I don't care about, but I'm doing good.

No, no, I'm, dude, a lot of fans called, a lot of fans tweeted about it. People care, man. Let me just say this. It is a big moment. I appreciate that. I'll just say this very quickly. I got a ton of tweets and e-mail.

and Facebook messages and Instagram messages from a lot of people wishing me well about the birth. I have not responded to all of them, but if you did, thank you, thank you, thank you. This baby entered the world with a lot of love. And honestly, dude, this may shock you.

I'm actually doing quite well. I feel very happy. That's good to know, man. You heard me say that, huh? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That, Thomas, maybe you're going to go on a streak like Seroni. You'd be like Dad Thomas out there

just, you know, mauling people. Probably not, but still. It's a good segue into it. our first question because a caller asked about that. Let's do it. Let's do it. Hey, Luke, Danny, everybody in the back. This is Ben from RVA. Just wanted to give you guys a quick call and mainly tell

Luke, congratulations on the birth of your child. I'm sure it's exciting moment for you and your family, and I'm sure you'll be a at least passable father. But on the more serious of a main discussion, I just wanted to check in and see, now that you are also a father, do you identify a little bit more with fighters like Donald Seroni and Dustin Coyier,

whose career seems with the birth of their children. They seem to find new motivation and new drive to succeed for the sake of their children. I'm curious to see if you've felt any inkling of that yourself. All right, I'm going to cut it right there. Yeah, by the way. It's a great place. Love it. I've only been there once and I loved it.

Yeah? Okay. How long ago? Like two years ago, maybe? Okay, so pretty recent. Yeah, it's a cool town. It's really cool town. Yeah, like two years ago.

One of America's hidden gems. Yeah. Some of the best past I've had was there. And I've been all over Italy. Yeah, yeah. The food in, people don't know this. The food in Richmond, Virginia is unbelievable. And if you know this, the tattooing there is quite high as well.

Did not know that. Yeah. I got a few tattoos there. Yeah. So that's actually something I wanted to ask you. Like, is there like a tangible sense of, I don't know. Do you feel any different now that your father? I do, actually.

Yeah. It's so funny. And I'm only a bit of dad for what, eight, nine days, something like that. My wife was, my baby was born 225 in the morning on Saturday. Yes, here's what I would say, though. I was already kind of working at my maximum capacity. I was more, I was busier than I could even be productive, if that makes sense. My life was filled with so much work.

I wasn't actually doing the highest quality of work. If the baby has done anything, and some, by the way, some dads don't bond with their kid until several months into the baby's existence. That was not how I felt. I felt something immediate. And I feel something immediate, even talking about it. it has it has began because it's such a new process it had it had an immediate impact on how i evaluate my priorities i will be honest about that um not sure exactly how they will change and what

capacity or when but yeah like there was a real re-centering about okay what not only is my responsibility what more could i do but what more could i do effectively and then the right way and um that has been something i've been thinking about every single day quite candidly yeah Wow, that's crazy. So, Dad Soroni must be a real thing, you know? Without knowing him better, it's hard to say exactly how it changes him. Because in MMA, you know this very well, dear. Yeah, yeah.

We like to say things like, oh, this thing affected him, a weight class change. It's all about storylines. Yeah, it's all about storylines. And you just never really know if that's real. Donald Serroney has a lot of success in short bursts when he changes weight class. Is that exactly what's happening here? And we're just attributing it to that? You know, it's really hard to say.

I think the tape does show a more mature, technically refined fighter. Yeah. And the ally quintin, people aren't talking about this. That's one of the better wins in Don Cironi's career. Dude, yeah. I mean, I'm pretty sure he came in as an underdog. I don't know. Probably.

Dude, I was really good. Yeah. He's really good. So for me, is there something to it? Hard to say? Hard to say exactly. But I wouldn't discount it if it was true. I put it to you like that.

Cool. And for someone like, I think it's more true for Dustin Poirier. Because Dustin Poirier was in, you know, juvenile detention. Yeah. kind of a, you know, I love Dustin, but I think he would agree. He was kind of a mess up early in his life. And he got re-centered real quickly with the baby. And I think that put him on a very clear, defined path.

So for that, I think it's a little more attributable. For Donald, it could be. We'll have to see. Yeah. All right. Well, with that being said, let's talk about a question about mindset. I thought this was a very good question. Okay.

Hello, I'm Matthew calling out of New York. My question has to do with Donald Soroni, talking about how he's a dad. and 3 and 0 from that, how important is mindset in MMA? So, go ahead. I don't know. I thought this question was great because I feel like watching Donald Soroni fight this weekend

and his past couple performances as well, like, sure, I'm sure there's some improvement there. Like, he's gotten better. But I think the clear difference is the mindset that he's taking in, you know, with, like using with his career right now. Because if you look at it, like, before he was always like, y'all, fight anybody anywhere.

And he was kind of careless about his career in a way. I'm sure he would agree to that as well. Sure. Now he's like super focused and he's actually like, oh, I need meaningful opponents. I actually need to take breaks. You know, he's actually planning this whole thing out. And I think, you know, having a kid really, really pushed him to do that. So I guess how important his mindset?

Because skill-wise, he looks about the same. I'm sure he's improved. But, I mean, we didn't see like a drastically new cowboy out there. Here's what I would say. you can win inside the people don't want to admit this but it's true you can win with almost any mindset in the ufc i have seen fighters afraid and win i have seen fighters overconfident and win i have seen fighters no emotion and win i've seen fighters sad and win i've seen fighters happy and i've seen it all but the very best ones always say the same thing there's a real clarity about number one who they

are yeah there's a clarity of the task at hand and there's a clear of the task at hand and there's a clarity of their purpose, both in that particular moment and then more generally. They just have a keen awareness of everything. And by the way, just because there's clarity doesn't mean there also isn't fatigue or sadness or fear. There can be those things too. But think about the very best fighters. I mean, name somebody, John Jones, right? Do John Jones has clarity of purpose. He is very clear about what he wants to do in there. Again, that doesn't necessarily mean like, I know exactly what I want to do if he throws a left hook. But there's just this general calmness about understanding what I have to do, who I am and where I'm headed in this short and longer journey.

Donald Serroney talks like he has clarity of purpose now. That to me stands out. Yeah. Yeah. And it's super key. I feel like, as you mentioned, you know, you can have, you can win with any type of mindset. But I feel like that goes specifically to a moment, to a fight. But if you're talking about like having a sustained long streak, you need that mindset.

Like you can't go with like a different mindset every time. you need a mission, you need a purpose. Right, that's right. Which is super important. For example, we just, you know, we didn't have a show last week, but we would have talked about Roy McDonald, like his mindset. Right. Like, he looks about the same fighter as far skill-wise,

but, like, his mindset is changing the way he fights. And the differences are subtle. People like, oh, it's the same guy on tape. No, it is not. Yeah. No, it is not the same guy on tape. I interviewed Rory McDonald before he fought Shea Mills in Atlanta. That was the card.

Yeah. That was the card, if you don't recall, where John Jones, speaking of which, fought Rashad Evans. Yep. And I remember, dude, I had to literally, like, put my hand in front of Roy McDonald's face because he was just ice grilling Shea Mills. Like, there he was, like, almost frothing to the mouth of being an exaggeration.

But, dude, there was, there was a major intensity. Yeah. So use that chugman in his all his words. That's a cold dude. It's a cold dude, man. Yeah. And he didn't forget how to fight, but that he summons that will and expresses it with the same intensity. Clearly he doesn't.

Yeah. He's telling you he doesn't. At least not for that fight. Now, maybe he can recapture it. I don't know. That's a big question. But yeah, dude, that's a real thing. It's a very real thing.

Yeah. Skills always the important, but I think mindset is the biggest thing. Yeah. Yeah. All right, cool. Let's talk about another fight here. Let's see if Cowboy gets this big money fight that he's been asking for. Danny, a little big fan.

My name's Habib Romani. Calling from the Bay Area, California. Yeah, yay. Anyways, my question is pretty beautiful folks. is, do you believe Mr. McGregor will return in July to fight Cowboy? What's your guys your input on that? I'd like to know them really interesting. Also, if I could put my two cents in, I feel the Cowboys should fight G.G.

and Ferguson should fight McGregor. I don't know if that's a reality. I know it's McGregor's world, but I don't know. I'd like to know what you guys think, and thank you so much. All right. What was the first question again? So what do you think? McGregor

Seroni happens in July? Can I be honest? Can I be honest about this? I am not opposed to Seroni versus McGregor. If they make that fight, awesome. Great. But you don't seem you don't seem you're too into it. I don't see it as,

God, how do I explain this? I'm not in any way opposed to it. I'm not in any way moved by it either. It doesn't, it doesn't, did you watch Marie Kondo on Netflix? No. She's this person who specializes in people organizing their lives, particularly the material things around them.

Yeah. Well, I've seen this. I know with this show, but I haven't seen it. I think I got her name right, Marie Kondo, Mary Kondo, whatever. And her rule of thumb is for things you want to keep or not keep is, does it spark joy? Right? It doesn't spark joy for me. I don't know why.

I'm not telling you that that's the way you should think or that the viewer should think. I'm not, but I saw like when the, when the, the fight was over, I was thinking more about like cowboy and I was sort of reflecting on his growth. And then I saw all these things like, oh my God, the fight with McGregor needs to happen. Again, man, if they make it, that's, believe me, I am not in any way standing in front of it. Great. I don't, I don't feel any particular way about it. Am I, I must be in the minority here.

Yeah, I think so. I like it. I think, you know, there's other fights for him as well. I don't think this is the fight to make, but I think this is a route they can go. I think also something that's being overlooked here is if you look, you look at the, you look, at McGregor, what he does as well is he boosts his other fighter's profile as well, depending on how the fight goes.

Like, he is a platform. Like, Nate Diaz has been the same dude throughout his entire career, even after McGregor. Some things have changed, of course, like the way he's negotiating with the UFC, but I'm saying, as a person as a character, he feels to me about the same. He just needed that platform, you know, for the world to see. And all of a sudden,

he became a superstar. I think Soroni could be the same case. Like, this is someone, if you give him a big platform, because he is an interesting character. He could, he could all of a sudden be, you know, a big, a big, you know, fight in, in the mainstream world. Well, I would love for him to get paid. Yeah. I would love for him to get the visibility.

I'm not in any way opposed to the fight. But for some reason, like, I'll be honest with you, if they said it was going to be Poirier versus McGregor, or Poirier versus Cowboy, they're not going to, but let's just say they were. Yeah. I don't know. Part of me would be more interested in that. I'm more interested in like Tony Ferguson.

I can't quite put my finger on it. And I also. Tony Ferguson versus Cowboy. I'd be supersized for that. Don't get me wrong. I think it's a competitive. It's a good fight because... It is.

Seroni's a slow starter. McGregor is a fast starter. That makes a real bad matchup for him early. But then... McGregor fades. Cowboy does not. He picks up, if anything. And very good at submission.

So if it goes to the ground, there's that as well. There's a lot of reasons to think it could be a very competitive fight. Maybe I'm talking myself into it. I don't know. I don't know. Keep going. Exactly. It's a great fight. If they make it awesome. But I don't, I don't, I'm not like it's number one advocate. I like it. I'm a fan. Cool. And, you know, I've been vocal about this before on this program, but I wouldn't like to see Tony Ferguson. I mean, if he needs the money, go ahead, fight. But if you're good on money, just wait out. You've done enough. You'll get, you'll get the next guy.

To repair his mental health situation. Yeah, that, that, of course, yeah. But what I'm saying is, like, let's say he's ready to come in and come back and he wants to, like, fight on the same card as Habib. Like, I wouldn't want to see that, man. Like, you've done enough, man. Like, you know what I'm saying? But I understand, like, you know, fighting is the way he makes money. So if that's what he wants to do, sure. But, you know, I think if he's good, he should sit out.

And by the way, McGregor Ferguson, I don't think that ever happens. They're managed by the same team. Ferguson. No, Ferguson left. Oh, he's with a new manager. Yeah, he left Audiatar. For what reason I do not know. That was very time.

Yeah, relatively recent. Mm-hmm. Okay. I don't know what the reasoning is. I don't know if it was amicable or not. not, but he is not with them anymore. Interesting. All right, well, let's talk about the heavier guys in the U.S.C.

Okay. How's it going, Luke and Danny? This is Dustin from Phoenix, Arizona. I just had a question with Greg Hardy and Walt Harris's wins coming a week apart from one another and very similar styles against almost similar opponents as well. Do you think that they should actually be matched up next? I would love to see that fight. I feel like Walt Harris would obviously win just from an experience standpoint,

but from the power that Hardy possesses, who knows what could happen. Love the show. Love to hear your guys' thoughts on that matchup. And hope you guys have a good one. Thank you. Bye. You know what? I'm done for that fight.

You like it? I didn't think about it until this caller mentioned it. I'm like, it makes sense. What did you think of Greg Hardy's last fight? I wasn't a minority on this one as well, but what did you think about it? It was weird. What was weird about it to you? It was an odd fight.

I don't know. There was something weird about it. I don't know. I don't think his opponent was trying to win. He was not. He was not trying to win. He was trying to win under maybe the smallest of conditions. And once those went away...

He didn't put any resistance. Okay, here's my point. If he had gotten the takedown very easily, he probably would have tried. But he didn't. And then he... He wasn't even driving. He wasn't changing levels.

Let's just say. Let's just say. But you think if you got the takedown, he would have quit? I don't think so. I think he would have kept going. But he didn't, and then he immediately quit in my judgment.

So that's what happened there. Yeah. Okay. This is a weird fight. Here is where I come down on this. I don't present it. Let's forget about Greg Hardy in the whole domestic violence language.

We've talked about to death. Okay? Everyone's going to have their opinions. He's just going to be here for better for us. Yeah. I made this point and I really stand by it. If you go to enough regional MMA shows, what you saw between Greg Hardy and Dimitri Samalikov was common.

It happens all the time. And I got news for everybody. If you watched Greg Hardy versus Alan Crowder, he needs work. Not Alan Crowder, but Greg Hardy. He's not UFC level. Fact. He's not.

Now, he may become one. He may be very close. Wait, but he's so athletic. He is athletic. He is athletic. That's a very true statement. I'm just throwing, yeah. But the point...

He's clearly not UFC right now. So this is my point. If that fight had taken place on the regional scene, you would not look at it like some really valuable experience. But what you would say is he got another camp in, Greg Hardy, he got another weight cut in, he got more training time. He did one more walk.

He did one more round of interviews. When you're that green as a fighter, yo, that matters. Those reps matter. Now, he obviously needs in his next fight somebody who will offer some resistance. I don't think you can keep doing what Somalikov did and matching about with people like that. No, you cannot do that. But people will be like, this is so weird. The only thing weird about it is that Dana White keeps signing guys who are not UFC ready

and then wonders why they can't perform at a UFC level. That's what's weird. That shit is common at regional MMA shows. I see it all the time. So it's fine. Whatever. Yeah. It was.

Yeah. And I'm not down to see those type of fights. That's why you don't. They're not fun, man. That's why you don't put those kinds of fights in the UFC. So you don't, they can get all. Like Greg Hardy did what he was supposed to do, man. Yeah.

Yeah, that's right. Yeah. He goes in there and his job is to, you know, try to finish the fight and win. And that's exactly what he did. Something that bothers him. He's like, okay, fine. If you're going to do that, do it. But don't put in the common event.

Like, I want to see something good in the. coming event. I've been waiting all day all night to watch that. You should be buried on the prelens. Exactly. That should be the first fight. You know where it should have been? There was a Titan FC the day before. Should have been on that is where it should have been. And you probably wouldn't have said a lot of great things about it. But again, if you're in his camp, I guarantee you his camp thought that was a valuable experience. Of course it was valuable for him. It's ridiculous to argue otherwise. It's just ridiculous to expect guys who need that kind of experience to perform in any other kind of way. Anyway, point being is against Walt Harris. I would have said a year or two ago,

If, like, Greg Hardy was as good as he is now and was fighting Walt Harris of two years ago, I would say I would have a lot more confidence in it. I got a sneaky feeling that Walt may have turned a corner. Yeah. And he looked good, man. He looks really good. And so if I'm right about it, and I don't know that I am, but if I'm right... And notice it was like a similar performance to Greg Hardy's,

but the difference was the opponent was still trying to, like, stay in the whole time. There was a similar level of execution. Exactly. There was a resistance there. So I wouldn't be opposed to it, but I wonder if that also is not. the right next step. But it's an interesting question. It's an interesting question. Yeah. But I'm down for that fight. I want to see Greg Hardy challenged. Okay. Yeah. Me too. All right. Let's, uh, I guess keep talking about heavy weights. I'm not sure.

People love that heavy weights. This is a weird question. For more size, Danny. Luke, I have a question. This is Kevin calling from New Orleans, Louisiana. I just recently met the Big Diesel Superman, the one and only Shaquille O'Neal, who said, Boris Griffin is the strongest man he's ever, like, grappled with or anything like that. My question is, how do you think Shaquille O'Neal would do in the UFC heavyweight division? Recently on TNT after a playoff game, three guys tried to tackle Shaquille O'Neal and could not take him down. Yes, three donks. I think that Shaq's take down defense would make him impossible to be in the UFC.

If he trained all of his life, I think Shaq would be the Khabi. times 10 of the UFC. Thank you guys for your work. I love you guys. Peace. Yeah, did you watch what he's talking about the clip he's talking about? I didn't, but I can imagine.

They had three pre- Can you even make 265? That dude must be like 350. Maybe in this college days, but not now. That dude's huge. Yeah. They had three pre-diabetic gas station attendants try and take

him down, and they did, by the way. Just not on the first try. Yeah. First of all, here's what would happen. Have you ever, like, Spar was somebody like really tall, really lanky? Sparta or like grappled? Grappled.

Yeah. So here's what, here's what would happen. Cormier would shoot. He would be much faster, significantly faster. Shack would sprawl and then Cormier would cut the corner and turn him over. It would happen over and over and over again.

Yo, he would get, he would get, in the words of training day, his S pushed in. It would not be close. It would not be a thing. It would, no.

I think that kind of height, is a true detriment, actually, in MMA. You want to be lanky and you want to be long, but there needs to be, like, John Jones was bringing up again. He seems to be, like, the maximum you would want to push that to, where you're still kind of, you're tall, but you're not crazy tall. Unless you're also like a Stefan's true of, like, crazy agile and with a good guard, which I don't think that would be the case with Shack.

Right. I mean, who knows? He's a ridiculous athlete. I would have said something more along the lines of, like, you know, you want an athletic heavyweight who might have been good in MMA. get me someone who's got a little bit more bulk. Someone I would say like a Zion Williamson. Zion Williamson, you don't know who- Oh my God, you know who Zion Williamson? No.

Hey, can everyone in the back there smack Danny for not knowing who Zion Williamson is? Yes, there's Joe in the back. Zion Williamson was the number one college player in basketball this year. He's 6-7 and 280 and had a, I think, a 45, 47-something-something-inch vertical. Dude, it looked, he looked,

like he could honestly jump to the stars. I've never seen an athlete built like that who could move like that. Somebody like that would be interesting in MMA. But even then, you have to have the mental constitution for it. Folks forget this. God, who was the Redskin who got his ass beat up Stephen Davis? Oh, God. This is so embarrassing that I can't remember my own.

There was a Washington Redskin wide receiver and he got in a fight with Stephen Davis and he bodied him. He ended up being like a black belt and jiu-jitsu, like real, Jizu, he fought MMA. He did poorly in MMA. Like, you have to have a certain... God, it's going to kill me now. He had to have...

You have to have a certain constitution to compete. So even if you're big and strong, if you're not mentally the kind of person likes to hurt people, it's going to be a problem. I mean, there was a football player, remember in the tough season, the one that was heavyweights... Michael Westbroke was his name.

With Kimbo Slice. I think his name was like Babyface or something. I don't know. He was huge and he didn't do too well. Like Michael Westbrook was the one. Dude, Michael Westbrook was a tier one athlete. Couldn't hack it in pro fighting. It's just, it's not for him, you know, so.

Yeah, interesting. It was a good, he was an okay fire. Our editor just, uh, just slacked me. He's like, yeah, Michael Westbrook. Oh, God. This is how little I sleep. I can't remember Michael Westbrook. You ever seen the footage of that?

No, no, no, no. He was at a practice and he mounted Stephen Davis. Oh, it wasn't even in a game. No, no, no, no. Teammates. Oh. And he mounted them and went to him and then went. and then went to work on him from the mount position.

Yeah, yeah, he had trained. Yeah, it was ugly. It was ugly. That's crazy. All right. Let's talk about something actually you recently did on your YouTube channel. All right. Ashley from Huntington Beach.

Oh, I know her. Okay. Hey, Luke. Congratulations on your brand new baby girl. First of all, it's wonderful news. Secondly, my question was about the fighter pace study that you did. Kudos on that, by the way. It was really fascinating.

I'm wondering to what extent that may have impacted your opinion of how underpaid fighters are. Do you feel like it reinforced what we already knew about that? Or do you feel like there were other layers that maybe swayed you in the other direction? I'm just curious about that. Thanks a lot. Yeah. So if you guys haven't seen it, it's posted at the top of my Twitter timeline at L. Thomas News. This guy from American University and Eric Kerner, who is a PhD candidate in Applied Statistics, reached out to me.

he's an MMA fan and ran some numbers on fighter pay and found a bunch of different findings, one of which was that basically if you're not ranked and you're not in the title fight, you're going to make nothing. These are two of the most important considerations for making money. And there's so much more to it. That podcast we recorded is a year old. I sat on it for a year, not quite a year, but a long time. And just because I actually, the day we recorded that, I got the call to take this job.

so you can imagine my distraction. A lot has happened since. You can imagine my distraction. So in any event, so no, it's been colored by that. We've had the debates. Whatever our opinions about the interim title, Danny, both of us agree on one thing. It is a better way to make some money.

Now, of course, they could just pay the guys more, but you and I have definitely agreed that, you know, they're going to get more money as a consequence, and that is one value. But if you haven't seen the math on it, when you realize what you're going to make without being ranked and without having a title, you are going to make very little.

Very little. Yeah. And when that study was done, what years again did it target it? It's about mostly 2017. Okay. So the Reebok deal was already in place. Okay, yeah. Yeah, it was interesting.

For me, I saw it all. It just reinforced what I already knew, but it was nice to get some numbers. And there was a few, like, things, like, you know, especially, like the, the jump in pain between divisions and stuff like that. Like, that was really interesting. but a lot of it was just like reinforcing. But, you know, it's like finally we get like, you know, some facts, right? Some numbers.

We know fighters are underpay, what value is it? Well, now it concretizes exactly how much. Yeah. We have a much keener understanding. And by the way, also John Nash over at Bloody Elbow did his own study, trying to find out how much extra is there in a hidden pay, so to speak. And for some fighters, you can... That's hard to track.

It is hard to track. So his best guess is about a third more in certain cases, which can be substantial. sometimes, but sometimes not. So we're trying to find, we're trying to better understand fighter pay. And there's, by the way, the one that, the biggest thing I took from that whole thing is seniority doesn't really matter for, and tenure. It doesn't matter for fighter pay. There's no connection between the two.

And that women, when controlling for other factors, do not make less, which I also found. Because it's not all bad news. Sometimes it's good news. Right. Yeah. That was one of the better pieces of news that I thought came out of it. All right. Let's do one more question.

and we go back to the 155 pound division. Hey, Danny. This is John from Chicago. Congrats, Luke. I'm the new child. My question for you is, when is the lightweight division? Finally, when is that bottleneck going to be, like, when are we going to finally start to have normalcy in that division?

Like, I'm just, like, there's so many great fighters there. I'm just getting so, so frustrated as a fan. Like, why can we not get these fights? going. I know there's things like Khabib and the suspensions with Connor, God knows what's going on with him lately. But when are we going to finally start to have normalcy in this division? Like, there's so many great fights to make, but it's just, like, I want to see Soroni actually get a chance to fight the title. But with all, with everything that's going on, like, when can we finally get back to normalcy? All right. Thank you.

So how, how, so we can, for example, we can say that the lighthead heavyweight division is back to normal. Champion fighting number one contender, right? How long do you think it'll take for the 155 pound division to go back to normal? Two things. Number one, the division is back to normal if you don't count the very top tier of it. Everything else is, look at over the weekend. You had Iaquinta fighting cowboy. You had, well, Holloway coming up was a bit of a change, but Tony's issue is being what it are.

But outside the very, very top tier, they're trying to churn through everything. Gay-Che fought Barbosa, for example, right? So that portion of the division is functioning as normal. Look, you cannot get a functioning division in the totality in the way which they're asking. Titles have to be defended. There's just no other way. Against the number one.

Against the number one or the most deserving contender or whatever. So number one, that has to be sorted. And I guess that will happen in September. I guess we'll have to see. The second component, of course, is, dude, as long as McGregor's kind of floating out there as this weird specter where guys are sitting out or he can just jump the line, that's not going to help the normalcy of things either.

So one, title has to be in rotation. I think two, we kind of have to figure out like what space does McGregor really occupy in a comfortable way. And, you know, how soon is that going to happen? Maybe this year, maybe next year. I don't know. But there's your answer. It's going to take those two things in short. Yeah.

Yeah. I think one, activity from the champion is super important. but also like who he's fighting, you know? If he doesn't fight the number one contender, then the Q just keeps getting longer and longer. Certainly does. But they are rotating beneath it. Iaquint it was ranked four and cut him into this fight.

Four. That's true. Yeah. I mean, in that matchup, I think that matchup made sense and it was a matchup that you had to do. But moving forward, for example, I think Soroni is pretty close to a title shot. I mean, after that win.

Certainly is. I don't think you should fight more than once. Yeah, maybe one more. One more, maybe. But anything more than that, probably not, but the thing is, with the state of the division, he might have to. Right. Because you got Ferguson waiting in line.

So many rotations that have to happen. Yeah, you're right. You're absolutely right. So, you know, I think it might take, if, let's say, like, the champion is constantly defending the belt, I think it might take like a year, a year and a half for the full rotation for everybody that's currently deserving a title shot to get a title shot and whatnot and then just have the, the Q's run as normal, you know, and be on time. All right. So what's the word on Mr.

Gracie? I texted him. He told me about 20 minutes he was on his way, so he should be here soon. He lives pretty close. Okay. And then I texted him to see where he's at. So he should be here anytime. And Ali apparently is having some, do he get back to you? No, he hasn't. But apparently he had some flight delays. Yeah, he had some flight delays. So I don't know if Ali is going to be on the show today, which is unfortunate because I had a lot of questions for him. But if you want, we can go to Michael Chandler right now and then. Why don't we do this? Why don't we do tweets? Okay. See where we're at. And then. then we'll do the channel if we have to. All right. Sounds good. So how about, thank you for your time, Derry, I appreciate it. All right. Time now, diggedy donks for a round O tweets.

All right. Clock starts when the first tweet goes up. I need a shave. Jesus. This side. Right here, look at that. Touching the five. Like a weirdo at a bus stop.

All right, here we go. David Bixen Span. This, I thought, was an unbelievably great question. What type of patterns do you look for? to determine if a fighter is irretrievably washed. Cowboy has now had a few fights that felt like he either was, Till or Edwards, or could get there soon,

gas tank versus Hernandez, only for those to turn out to be bad nights, matchups, weight cuts. Yeah, he does not follow the pattern at all. I think there's a few things I look for. The number one thing I look for is do they throw back? So go back and watch, for example, BJPen versus, um,

uh, El Pantera, God, I can't remember anybody's name today. I'm so sleep deprived. Yeah, Air Rodriguez, excuse me. And then you can look, even in the Dustin Siever fight, a little bit less so in that one. But he doesn't throw back. He just kind of sits there and takes it, right?

That is something you look for. That could be done in that fight, but it's, I don't mean someone who just gets bombed on. What I mean is there's this prolonged thing where they're not quite getting crushed, but they're just not engaging. that to me is the sign of a fighter who's done. You know, if there's a real noticeable deterioration in their physical composition, that's another.

Obviously, chin can be another one. But, you know, you can lose your chin and still have the will to fight. When someone is just sitting there taking abuse and not throwing, but circling maybe just enough to not get finished, that is my number one sign. But if you notice the cowboy, that's not what he's doing at all. He's out there kind of getting after it. Next.

Here we go. What should be next for Cub Swanson? man, after his fourth loss in a row, he really only loses to the best guys, but still a top featherweight in my eyes. Man, that was a hard one to watch because Cub is such a nice guy. You really like him. You really think highly.

Again, competitive. He's not so much in the Moikano fight, but in many of these other ones, he's pretty competitive. Yeah, man, it might be time for a reset. It might be time for a reset a little bit. And maybe stop fighting the very, very best. Maybe work back from the division. And I just think he needs a confidence-boasting win, you know?

He's a pro, win really deter him, but I think he just needs one to get back on the horse. So you don't, if the game is going to pass you by and it passes by everybody eventually, you don't want to do it with the guys at the very top all the time. Maybe try and see if you can reset the opportunity by dialing it back a little bit in terms of the competition. Now, the rule is those guys don't want to lose to somebody down there. They don't want to give their name to somebody who could be some killer up-and-comer that

we don't really gauge properly. That's always the risk you run. But I just think getting a win will put him back in a better headspace and enable him to move forward. Next. I never get picked and apparently my questions aren't good enough

so I don't want to bother. Should I block this person, Danny? Just for fun? You've been picked, Alexander Da Mota. I guess that's the cousin of DaZone. Next. Luke, please don't take Azard off us. We'll get relegated next season.

He's contributed 50% of our league goals this season. Let me just say something. I said this before. If and when Real Madrid get Azard or especially if they get Pagba, and especially if they get Mbpe, which they probably won't. But if they did, I'm going to be as insufferable as I already am, I'm going to be even more insufferable. I want everyone to know that.

Next. Should the UFC have waited for the winner of JDS and Gano to face DC, as opposed to booking the steep rematch? No. Because the rule there was D.C. wanted to fight Brock, and if Brock, for some reason, wasn't available, DC was pretty clear, then I'll go to Stepe. Okay, well, Brock's not available.

So now they go to Stepe. It was a fine decision, and it was a gamble, by the way, that worked out in Stepe's favor. So now he's going to have a second chance to, or I guess the first chance, but a second opportunity at defeating Daniel Cormier. Well, to see how well he goes, how it goes for him. but no, Cormeier was pretty clear about what the line of succession was. I kind of thought that Steepe should have got out there one more time

and not taking a year off, but maybe the year off will be good for him. We'll see. Next. Does John Jones get the winner of D.C. versus Stipe? I'd love to see it, but probably not. Probably the winner of NGonognev versus JDS. Next. Who has the best live streaming sports platform currently?

Boy, that is a good question. I would say YouTube TV. for my needs because I get my UFC on there. I get my NBA on there. I get my skins on there. I get DC United. Well, I don't get DC United, but when they're playing on FS1, I get. I get the major things that I need off of that.

You got flow sports, which I don't think is very good. Although I will say this, flow grappling of all the flow platforms is by far the best. The zone was terrible. in the Canelo Jacobs fight. What a mess that was. They botched the in-house walkout. They botched virtually everything. They didn't Mike the Ring well.

I thought they shot it okay. And I like Chris Mannix. I thought he was good. Sergio, Mora, and Brian Kenny, people thought they were biased towards Canello, and they were. I didn't see it quite as bad as others did, but I agree.

They didn't really call what Jacobs was doing as favorably. But I generally didn't have a problem with them. I like Brian Kenny a lot. So I didn't care about that much, but dude, just like a big fight, you should feel and hear and absorb a big fight. And they didn't do, they could not have made that worse in terms of getting that right, which is weird because when they do Bellator, I don't feel the same problems at all. So I don't know what it was for the Canelo Jacobs card, but it didn't go right. So there you go. And what are the other ones here, by the way? I'm missing some. B.R. Live I don't

use. And I'm sure there's some other ones. All right, let's do this. Should we go to the Chandler interview? Yes, no? We should do that, yes? In the back? He's here in the building, trying to locate him. Let's do this.

Let's just go to the Chandler interview because I don't have time to wait. So, let's do it now. I spoke with Michael Chandler yesterday about his upcoming fight with Patricio Friday, which is an ugly one in terms of the rivalry and all of the PED accusations.

I asked him about those accusations directly, but we had talked about a lot more. Here's my conversation with the champ. All right. And we are joined now by some Bellator royalty, the lightweight champion of the world. Michael Chandler joins us here through Skype. Michael, how are you, sir?

I'm doing great, man. Nothing better than putting in a phenomenal training camp and being in Fight Week. Now all the hard work is done. Every time I talk to you, you have a phenomenal training camp. You ever had a bad one? I've had a couple. I've definitely had a couple.

A couple injuries, a couple fights maybe that I should have pulled out of. I've never pulled out of the fight. but you know it's uh the funny thing is if i would if i would tell you like five or six things that happened during this training camp you probably would think that it was a not so great training camp but you know i mean the glass is always half full man i actually got asked the other day you know what what this fight means and this fight rivalry and this that another thing honestly just being able to compete at this level at this high level with this capable body after 10 years in the sport man and still feeling like i'm getting better still feeling like i'm just scratching the surface of my

potential. It's reinvigorating. It's rejuvenating every single time I come back down here of Florida and get training in. All right. So you're in Florida. Every time I talk, I get confused because I know you built a facility in your new hometown of Nashville. I know you've done some training there. So, but you're in Florida. So like, what do you use the Nashville facility for? So that's my, that's my home gym. You know, we have, we have a couple fighters that train out of there some decent coaches good coaches like we got so it's almost like i have to separate both gyms you know i know for me the fighter the guy who's trying to be a world champion and chase my dreams i have to be with these guys down here with henry hoof and all these champions and all the other organizations as well as bell atlitor with the great training partners

and the great facilities to be able to run my fight camps but the other you know 200-something days a year. I'm at home in Nashville. I got a phenomenal strength conditioning coaches out there. Phenomenal striking coaches, grappling coaches. Like I have bodies to work with out there. So essentially I have, I built my own home gym in Nashville, which is a not a home gym. It's not like it's in my garage, but it's a 10,000 square foot facility. Full mats, 3,000 square foot of mats, 3,000 square foot of fitness area to just fitness heaven. So that's where I do a lot of my workouts in between training camps when I'm working on my body, focusing on becoming a bigger, faster, stronger athlete, and then once I come down here, I can hone in on the skills necessary

to beat my opponents. You know, sometimes I talk to you and you have these fights where you have, like, legitimate talent, the guy, Brent Premas, I know it was kind of personal for you, but in some ways, I never felt like you guys were super connected as rivals. And then today, over the weekend, he goes and go go plot as a guy. But with the Pitbull brothers, I mean, there could be no mistaking about this. You guys are tied at the hip. You knocked his brother out, and then you got on the cage, and you, you know, had words,

with him. Fair to say, the most personal rivalry of your career? I would say, yeah. I mean, I would also say I think it's mainly on his camp. You know, it's mainly on his side. I mean, I've usually tried to stay pretty even keel, man. I mean, I've, growing up wrestling, you have certain, you know, you have certain team rivalries, whether it's, you know, I was in the Big 12th.

So the Oklahoma State, Nebraska, Iowa State, those schools, you wanted to beat those guys for more reasons other than just winning a match, you know. So I've learned how to compartmentalize the actual rivalry that we've had. You know, I mean, I think part of it is we've just been around each other. It's almost like, you know, someone's your friend or someone's cool, someone's your best friend until you live with them. You almost spend so much time with them that you just, they get on your nerves. And I feel like Patricio has kind of been like that with me.

We've probably seen each other, you know, 40 times over the last 10 years or eight years that we've both been in Bellator and uh he's never quite been friendly he's always known that i was going to you know first of all i beat his brother within the first you know two years a year a year or so me being in Bellator so he had that against me and then i beat him again a couple years later so he's always had that um animosity towards me and then now you know some things that he said you know I'm uh I'm ready to just go out there and shut him up man I'm excited to go out there and compete let me ask you about that it'll be he has I think it's fair to say for anyone who's been paying attention at all um

he has actively accused you of performance-sancing drug use. Now, I don't know how legitimate those claims are, but in the interest of due diligence, I'd ask you this way. One, is there any truth to the accusations? And two, if not, what do you make of why he has been so insistent about it? Yeah, no, there's absolutely no validity whatsoever. I've never once touched upon a performance-a-performance-dancing drug. The good thing is I can sit back and I can see the accusations or I can see the things that people say.

And any normal sane person would say, well, that's a feather of my cap. You obviously look so good or you are such a condition trained athlete that people accuse you of those kinds of things. For him to say it, I don't really understand where his basis is. All he's ever said is, I think he's uses them or he is using them. he's never actually brought any kind of any kind of circumstance where he may have heard through the great fine this that or whatnot. I mean,

the funny thing is as soon as I started training with Coach Calavita and then T. G. G. DeLishaugh, he brought that up and I've only, I've literally spent one workout with T.J. Dillishaw. It's not like he's my boy,

you know. So it's just uncircum, or unfortunate timing, if you will with that. But man, it's one of those things where it's, I look at it for two different ways. Number one,

he's already making excuses as to why and when he loses and why and when his brother lost. And secondly, I don't know, it's just, to me, it's a sad view of the human potential that you can't look at somebody, see the way that they train, and give them the benefit of the doubt that they do things right, they eat right, they train right, and they train just harder than everyone else. I've now been in an 11-week training camp. I have one week left. I can honestly tell you that I have not enjoyed one of my meals to the fullest extent in 11 weeks.

I can honestly say that what I have put my body through in training and the lifestyle choice that I have made over the last 11 weeks is something that the very top 1% of people do. And I'm willing to make those sacrifices because I want to be the best. but I mean it's it's also we're open to criticism because whether Bellator likes to admit it or not they don't have you saw it you know I mean that's that's the that's the that's the hard part about it all

is I can't sit here and say yeah I got you sada barking on my knocking down my door every other day like some of these guys I say you saw it in the gym and I get a little bit jealous because I wish they were testing me what's interesting about it is you obviously have never run a foul of any anti-doping authority whether it be a commissioner or anybody else Nevertheless, though, the accusations, as you are well aware, I'm sure, have been persistent for years. Any way to gauge, despite a just being accusations, had they been harmful at all to your career in any capacity? As a guy who, as a guy who, number one, I always want to do the right thing.

I mean, gosh, I get a speeding ticket and I feel like, you know, the scum of the earth. You know, like I'm very hard on myself sometimes. And as a guy who wants, as a guy who can lay his head on the pillow at night, knowing that I've done everything that I possibly can and done it the right way, yeah, it's harmful because also you get these headlines that come out and the media loves to do it. And they love to say, you know, Patricio says this, that, and the other thing. My son is going to read these headlines someday. It's unfortunate that's the world we live in.

And truthfully, the funny thing is, too, even on Instagram or these social media platforms, I never respond to people unless it's in a positive light. If someone says something positive, I will respond. But when I literally, I woke up one day to like 25 mentions or 25 whatever mentions on Instagram one day. And I saw this guy going back and forth with this lady.

And he literally said the words, you know, she was like refuting that I have ever used, blah, blah, blah. And he said, yeah, but he has failed drug tests in the past. And I said, hey man, I never usually respond to, you know, armchair quarterbacks like you, especially in a negative light, but you cannot literally throw out fake news into the internet. You know what I'm saying?

It's just, it's unfortunate that in 2019, we can say whatever we want, whether it's fact, whether it's fiction, whether it's fake. And unfortunately, it stays on the internet, you know, so it's, it has not had any negative effect on my career whatsoever. I could care, I could care less what people say and what people think. Unfortunately, we have a sport that's not 100% clear. even with the UFC anti-doping policy, obviously guys are getting busted left and right. So people are using and people will continue to use as long as human, as long as we live in a fallen world and as long as human existence is the human existence, unfortunately. I don't know how much thought you've given it, but do you, to be candid, neither of I,

but here's what I mean. Do you think media should cover accusations like that differently? I don't know what you would do. I mean, at the end of the day, it's, it's the media's job to take what athletes say or what certain talent says and put it into print, put it into the, the internet. You know, that's the job. That's your guys's job. I mean, and then could they pick and choose headlines differently? Of course.

I mean, clickbait is a real thing. You know, that's why people get so many clicks on their things. But I just, I don't know. It's unfortunate. and as a clean athlete, it's unfortunate because I have so much confidence in myself that I'm 100% clean and I know that I'm 100% clean that I would, I wish I was in an organization like the UFC. Don't use that headline as Michael Chandler was used.

But you know what I'm saying? You wish I didn't have the, I wish I didn't have the dark cloud behind me of, yeah, but you're in Bellator or yeah, you're in one FC or yeah, you're in, you know, risen. these organizations that quote unquote are, you know, USADA. And as soon as the UFC came in, which, man, hats off to them. Let's clean up the sport. Let's do it. But as soon as UFC adopted their anti-doping policy and brought in USADA, that's

when I started seeing much more, hey, Chandler, you know, it's not, hey, Chandler likes Bellator or Hey, Chandler is getting paid the most money in Bellator or Chandler sees the best road to taking care of his family for setting himself up for the future in Belator. or it's Chandler stays in Belator because they don't have drug testing like the UFC. You know, it's just, it's silly stuff like that. That just kind of, it unfortunately just puts a huge blemish on how much I love this sport or how much I love the fan base or how much I love the MMA media.

Yeah. I have a lot of thoughts on that. In part, I just think that the introduction of Usada has scandalized any kind of accusation, but neither here nor there. Let's move on to the opponent himself. Here's my read on this one. of the two brothers, I would actually argue Patricio is much more well-rounded, but he is smaller. So how do you size him up relative to his brother who you've already fought?

I think Patricio is the better fighter. I think Patricio is the more skilled fighter and, yes, the more dangerous fighter in a lot of areas. He's got that great guillotine. Decent grappling, unless he doesn't catch you in the guillotine, he does have a decent grappling. But where I see the holes is, yeah, he's much smaller. I mean, I saw him in L.A. And he was probably 160-something pounds and he was definitely a little fluffy, you know. I have the advantage.

And I look at it as the advantage of the weight cut. You know, I was 169.4 this morning. And I am down to extremely lean. And my weight cut is essentially already done. And now I just have to water manipulate. And I just, I look and feel phenomenal. And I put in, like I said, an 11-week training camp in order to get my body and peak optimal metabolic conditioning and form to be able to fight on May 11th.

He doesn't have to do that. You know, he's he's 145 were coming up in weight class. So, so when it comes to, you know, when it comes to doing the extra runs or putting in the extra rounds, putting in the extra little bit, he's not going to be as hungry as I am because I've had to put in that work. But I've also seen him get dropped by Emmanuel Sanchez in his last fight and dropped in the fight before that. So his chin is, his chin is becoming more and more suspect.

and that's just wear and tear on the body. He's got 10 more fights than I do. And he's been in the sport a couple years longer than I have. So he's got a lot of miles on him, got a lot of miles on that brain of his and a lot of miles on that chin. So I hope I would find the chin and find the chin early. Go for that knockout or go ahead and finish him on the ground if I need to. Are you looking forward to putting the rivalry such as it is behind you?

Yeah, I mean, honestly, I've said this in the past too. Like, Patricio does not keep me up at night, you know? I mean, I think it's, it's a little bit comical how, how, you know, the tension is always thick every time I see him. You know, there's just, there's just this amount of animosity that he brings to the table. And it's not just with me. I mean, obviously, I'm happy that I got this fight because I wanted this fight because he got in my face after that, after the, after I beat his brother. But he also did the same thing, Darien Colwell. He did the same thing to, you know, all these other guys.

He just, he's a, he's a guy who's always looking to pick a fight. I don't know what it is, why it is. but I also have a lot of respect for him. He's not afraid of anybody. He's not afraid. He wasn't afraid to fight me, who's a much bigger man. He wasn't afraid to fight Benson, who's a much bigger man. You know, he is a fighter through and through.

I respect his game. I respect him as a fighter. And hopefully after he wakes up from the knockout of the submission, we can shake hands and we can, you know, we can get past this. If not, he will continue to let this harbor, this resentment harbor inside of his, inside of his heart and we'll see how that works out well. A few months ago, maybe more than that, maybe six to nine months. I can't keep anything straight.

I don't sleep very much, Michael. But I remember you telling me that you were looking for other weight class fights like jumping up. And then, look, not every situation is the same. But Rory McDonald tried it against Gagard Musassi. And you could make that about that particular matchup, but obviously did not go well for Rory in that regard. I wonder now if you have, is that still something you want to do? Have you had second thoughts about it? Like, to what extent is that still part of the Belator bucket list?

Yeah, you know, I mean, I think I'm always looking for challenges, obviously. I want to continue to challenge myself. I also have been on record saying that I wish Bellator would look to sign some more lightweights. There's got to be lightweights out that are coming up on free agency that they need to go out and try to snag and try to pay and get them over here. I think they haven't really signed a lightweight since, what, Benson Henderson, Josh Thompson? You know, it's been quite a while that they've signed a top level lightweight. So I'd like to see what happens after this fight. You know, I want to go out there, get this win and then see what happens.

But, I mean, yeah, you can see the size is a real thing. And Patricio is going to see that on May 11th. But, you know, Rory saw that against Gagard. It's tough. I mean, I feel it when I go against 170 pounds in the gym, especially when it comes to length. You know, if I fought a guy at 170, it would be more of a Paul Daly, a guy who's not, you know, six, three with, you know, a seven-inch reach advantage on me. You know, that's no joke. So we'll see.

I'd like to see, I'd like to see what happens. But, you know, you also got to think about being a prize fighter. You know, I want to get the biggest prize. If I go up to 170, I want to see a bigger prize. All right. Two more questions for you for something outside of your control. In the UFC, the two top lightweights are going to be Dustin Parier and Habib. Who do you like in that contest and why?

I like what Dustin's been doing lately, man. he has really come on great striking he's got that that softball stance and he's got a great chin he keeps on coming great cardio but i just don't see him stopping what could be brings at the table i don't see him i don't see him being able to get up um as many times as kabib's going to put him down and when when kabib puts him down i don't think dustin's a huge lightweight at all um you know i think he's tried to put on a little bit a little bit more muscle but if if a guy fought 145 what a year and a half two years ago, you know, chances are he's going to be much smaller than Khabib. And Khabib has a way of mauling people and out wrestling them, but not just out wrestling

them, out positioning them, putting them in a position where they are literally stuck. And it's either, you know, take a ton of damage or start shelling up and look for a way out. And unfortunately for Dustin, I think Kabe can do that to him. And I think it would probably go to a decision, to be honest with you, because I think Dustin is just that tough. and Khabib doesn't have crazy power in his hands, even when he does get on top. So I like Kibb in that fight.

All right. And last one at least, your boy, Ben Ascran, going up against Jordan Burroughs. This will be, of course, on Monday, May 6th, which is the day this interview will air. Now, I'm assuming you're going to pick your guy. If not, you can correct the record. But let's just do it this way.

What does Ben have to do to beat Jordan Burroughs? Ben has to be Ben. I mean, I think what most of your listeners on this show don't realize is how. great of a wrestler Ben was, you know, and even, and I think he was even better than he accomplished, you know, I think he under-accomplished in wrestling just because, you know, he didn't, he didn't place in the Olympics in, what, 2008 it was. And, uh, and then just started fighting because he saw a road to, to making some money. And, uh, but he said it perfectly. I think Jordan, I just

saw Jordan Burroughs put out there, you know, he has no idea what's coming to work, coming for him tomorrow night and Ben said Jordan comma you know I'm a wrestling savant I know exactly what's coming the question is can I stop it and I think that's it's very much true I think Ben can wrestle anybody in the entire world with his eyes closed he has not lost a step um even though he's been standing upright and fighting and grappling for the last you know 10 years or so he has not lost a step in his wrestling and I can guarantee that and he has not lost any of his strength or any of his unorthodox funk style that he brings to the table. And I think if you look at, you know, a couple of times that David Taylor wrestled Jordan Burroughs,

David Taylor being able to prolong those scrambles and putting Jordan Burroughs in a position where if you stop that initial shot and they start getting to a scramble type of situation, Jordan Burroughs doesn't always win. As a matter of fact, I think it's more like a 50-50. But Jordan Burroughs is the best athlete I've ever competed against. I competed against them three or four times in college because that Nebraska, Missouri Big 12 rivalry. And it'll be interesting, but I got Ben in that one.

All right, fair enough. Well, you have your hands full of Patricio Fraidy. This will be May 11th at the Allstate Arena and will air live and exclusively on DeZone. Michael Chandler, thank you so much for your time. Can't wait to see your fight. You got it. Thanks. All right.

And we're back. Big thanks to Michael Chandler, Belator Lightweight Champion. Speaking of a Bellator lightweight champion, there could be another champion at Bellator on the show today. Well, there was one. This one is trying to be the next one, I guess is the better segue. He competes against Rory McDonald on the next Belator, NYC. This will be Belator 22, June 14th at Master Square Garden.

It's the semi-finalist himself. Neiman Gracie. Hi, Neiman. Hi, good. Good to be here with you guys. Yeah, man. How are you feeling? Feeling great, man.

Feeling great. Can't wait. You were, I think, candidly, I think it's fair to say, you were like the big underdog in this tournament. Yeah. Maybe Ed Ruth was kind of, because he was a bit newer in his career. Yeah. But here you are in the semifinals.

I know you're not surprised by it, but do you feel already validated by some of the experience you've had already? Yeah, I think so, you know, especially because some guys were saying that Ed Ruth was like the dark horse, you know. So, yeah, I feel validated. And I knew what I'm capable of. So it's just about show everyone else. you know. What were you expecting at event, Ruth?

Exactly what happened. Like, it's a tough fight, you know. There was a tough fight. I wasn't expecting him to try to take me down. I thought he was going to use his wrestling to keep the fight standing. But as soon as we clinch, he took me down, he went to my guard. And I was like, whoa, thank you. Like, you know. And then it became a very good grappling fight.

I think that fight was one of the best grappling fights in a long time, you know. Certainly was. Tell me about him physically. What was his base like? Super tough, man. There was positions that I got him for a sweep, that I thought that I had the sweep and he bounced in and come back.

I was like, damn, some arm bars there. I was about to roll him. And I rolled him, he bounced and come back. I was like, man, this guy is good, you know. I didn't feel him very strong. I felt him like very, like, very good base. Yeah, good balance. And great balance, yeah.

Yeah, but then in the end, you got, Let's see, he tried to roll you. You had mount. Yeah. And you had the, you'd walk his arm up real far. And he tried to roll. And then you took his back and then from there you worked the choke. So in the end, it was just what, your technical superiority, I suppose, in Jiu-Jitsu?

I think there was the first time in the fight that I was able to get on top. You know, and that made the difference. Because the whole fight, he was on top of me, on my guard. And I was attacking a lot from the guard, you know. And I was almost finishing him with a couple arm bars and other moves. But as soon as I got on top of him, I know. pretty well how to put the weight on the guy, you know? Some guys that train with me, they say I feel much heavier when I'm on top.

On mount, half guard, you know? And it's a great position, a position that I like, that I use a lot. And once I get the back, it's my favorite position. How much has your jujitsu changed for MMA? It changes a lot, man. It's crazy. Because regular jiu-titsu, I think your jiu-tit-to gets down to like 15% of everything that you know for 100%.

100% of Jiu-Jitsu that you have, you can only use like 15% or 20% of the Jiu-Jitsu, you know, because a lot of positions you can get hit with punches and everything else. So there is a lot of things that you cannot use. And but since I was a kid, I always learned Jiu-Jitsu for fighting, you know? The Jiu-Jitsu that I learned wasn't for like competitions.

So it's like a Jiu-Jitsu for fighting, so I think it's different. People always talk about, oh, it's without the ghee. Okay, yes. without the ghee. But the other part is, like, if you, I'm trying to figure how to make this argument, if you watch Jiu-Sitou for MMA, you can, like when you watch Demi and Maya, if I watch Demi and Maya, even in No Gee, he would have a series of sophisticated leg entanglement, some blah, blah, most of that goes away. I'm not calling it Blue Belt as in unsophisticated. Yeah. I'm calling it

Bluebelt as in closer to fundamental Jiu-Sit-Soo. It's like bluish, purplish, just really refined. Exactly. Is that a fair characterization? Yeah, but I think what works, in the fight is the fundamentals, you know? So all those crazy moves that people see, like, people flying around and going for crazy leg locks, all of these go out of the window, you know, and what really sticks is the fundamentals. So, and that's what I learned since the beginning, you know.

So fundamentals, it's really, really important for fighting. Are you the best grappler in this tournament? Definitely, yeah, yeah. How good is Douglas Lima? Really good, too. He's a very complete fighter, but I think he's more of a striker, you know, but his jiu-jitsu is very good defensive. He has a very good guard.

He has a very good butterfly guard too. His jiu-sitsu is kind of like Rory's jiu-jitsu, I think. It's more designed for MMA? Definitely, yeah, yeah. All right, let's talk about Rory McDonald's. That's the one you're going to face. First of all, a title shot already. Yeah.

How does that... That's kind of weird, right? Like, you're not even 10-fights here or what? This will be your 10th pro-fight. I'm sure you've had many more in different circumstances, but 10th pro fight already in the time. Yeah, but it's not something crazy for me. Like I was expecting already, you know. Like, I have seven fights in Bellatorian, I have seven wins and six submissions. So it was about time,

you know, like, yeah, man, and I can't wait to test myself and I can't wait to try to be a world champion, you know. So Rory fought John Fitch. Yeah. Give me your impressions. The fight, there was a war between two great fighters, you know. And I was telling people before the fight that, John Fitch was going to bring it to him and people were like counting him out. No, I think Rory is going to finish him and standing up and it's going to be easy. I say, man, I don't think it's going to be easy. I don't think anyone that fights John Fitch is going to have an easy fight, you know. If you see, I think he only lost for guys that are champions or fighting for a championship.

So he's a very tough guy. He was able to get the strikes that the Rari throws on him. He was able to eat them and get him down. I think it was a very tough fight, and I think John Fitch won, you know? You do? Yeah, I think so. Interesting. Yeah.

What did you see out of Rory? Because you heard his, we'll talk about his post-fight comments at a minute. People have said, oh, it's the same guy who was in the UFC. I'm not sure I buy that. I think there's a step that's a little bit off. Do you agree? No, I think he's the same guy. Same guy?

I think he's tough, man, you know. I saw him trying to kill John Fitch, you know. So, yeah, I think he's a great. he's still one of the best World rates in the world, I think. For sure, that's true. Maybe top two or top three, I think so. And it's going to be a tough fight, man.

All right. Let's talk about his post-fight comments. Yeah. So they put a microphone on his face. Here's the thing that, you know this. Yeah. Right after a fight. Are you thinking clearly?

No. It's very hard, especially after five rounds war, you know? Like, forgive folks to help folks understand, like after the Ruth fight, because that didn't go the same length, but that was a crazy battle. And I went crazy after that fight. If you see that fight, I'm screaming,

where's my bell? I was going crazy. And I'm never like that. I'm usually a very calm guy, and I was going crazy. And after that, I saw, what the hell is going on there, you know? Sometimes you like the emotions take part of you,

especially after the fight is over. All the emotions comes out, because us, as a fighter, we try to hold the emotions, we try to hide them during and before the fight. You know, we don't want to, like, be too emotional during a fight and before the fight. So we always try to keep the emotions in. And after the fight is over, we put everything out.

And it's crazy, you know. So I think that that's what happened to him. He just put it out what he was feeling, you know. And... So what about that, though? Because if the idea was, to your point, that he was feeling these things but concealing them... Yeah. He was still feeling them.

Yeah. So what do you make of the fact that he was feeling like, you know, he didn't... His words where you have to have a certain spirit to hurt another man. Yeah. I think he tried to hurt John Fitch pretty bad, you know. But I respect. I respect that. I respect what he's feeling, you know.

We fight in a cage in front of millions of people, the whole world watching. If you think about it, it's kind of a crazy thing, right? To lock itself with someone else inside a cage. It's not my job. You know? So if you stop to think about it, it is a crazy thing to do. And I respect him if he, and he'd been. a lot of wars. So I respect if he doesn't want to do that anymore, you know. It's up to him.

Everybody has a certain time in the sport, and if he feels that he doesn't have it anymore, it's okay. But from seeing the fight, I was there alive. Oh, you were there? Yeah. Okay. So I think he tried to kill John Fitch. He just wasn't able to, and he put it out what he was feeling, you know. But I think when we fight, it's going to be a tough fight. I'm ready to die when I step in there, and I think he's going to be ready to die too, you know. You think he is? I don't know.

I mean, I believe you. And maybe you're right. When I say I don't know, I really mean that, like, I don't know. I don't know. It's just you don't hear, you don't hear fighters say that publicly very often, do you? Yeah. No. Usually, like, fighters tend to keep their into them, you know, especially like sometimes they're scared, and they never say it, you know,

because they don't want other people to know. And I think he just let it out, and it's fine. It's nothing crazy. I don't think it's nothing crazy, you know. Have fighters that you know ever in the training room ever, like, told you they were scared? Many times, yeah. It's kind of hard, but sometimes you start talking to them and they open up. Sometimes veterans of the sport, you know, they say, man, I was so scared before this fight in the locker room, you know.

It's normal, man. Sometimes we're going to be scared, but like I heard one time before. The courage is not the absence of fear, you know. It's having fear, but knowing how to control it and doing what you have to do with that fear, you know. So everybody gets scared, but it's the difference, you're being scared in doing the thing, or you're letting the fear stop you from doing it, you know? That's the difference between a courage guy and a coward, I think. What about the idea of less so fear, but this desire to keep competing,

Has a fighter ever come to you and been like, I don't know if I can do this anymore? Not many, but I'm pretty sure there are a lot of guys think about it, but they don't say it too much, you know. We tend to keep a lot of things to ourselves, you know. And sometimes when we let it out, like people started judging you, you know? Yeah, so you're of the impression that he's going to be

the Rory McDonald day you have been watching all these years. Yeah, man, I'm waiting for the best Rory MacDonald ever, you know? So I'm training so hard. So I'm ready for war, man. Let's talk about his game. What do you look at what Roy McDonald's good at? Yeah. What is he good at?

I think his best thing is he's striking, you know. He's very aligned with striking. He doesn't overcommit on things, you know. I think he's striking is his best weapon. But he's also very good all around, you know. He has a good jiu-git, too. He has a good wrestling. But I think his biggest weapon is he's striking in his hands, you know.

What about his ground game? It's very good, too. He has a good ground game, especially because mine school and his school were kind of connected, you know? My teacher... Right, because Faraz is Danaher's student, right? He's a student, right? He's a student, so my teacher, Danahur, is also teacher of them,

and he's been on Rari's corner, so he comes from a good lineage, you know? So how's it going to work for this fight? Like, obviously, Roy's going to train with Faraz. Yeah. But what does John Danner to do? do here? I'm going to keep training with John like I always do, you know, and I think it's fine. We talk already,

like John's not going to be in my corner for this fight, but I'm going to keep on training on his classes and with his students, you know, it's all good. Like, I never trained with Rory before. He'd been to my school before, but we never trained together. I think it's fine. It's just business, you know. We're going to go there, fight, and after

that, we're cool. If you want to come back and train in the gym, it's fine. You've never had an opponent that was super bitter at you. super angry, right? No, I think only like two guys. I fought a Mexican guy in Bellator. Javier Torres?

Yeah, he's kind of a, he was kind of a dick, you know. But I felt good that made me more, gave him more power to try to finish him, you know? Yeah. Do you like that kind of thing about MMA? I don't dislike, but it's not something that I do. I'm usually a very calm guy, you know. And like I said before, I think about it.

as a business, you know. In the end of the day, I just want to go in there and compete and win. So I don't hate the guy. I don't want to kill the guy, you know. It's just like I want to be better than him. I want to finish him, but it's not like I want to kill him, you know. But when you look around M.MA and you see so many people getting attention from it. Yeah.

So what do you make of that? I think it's fake. Most of the time, it's very fake, you know, like people try to hyper fight. It's weird, isn't it? Yeah. It's like you see these people in person. Like, I know Colby. I'll say this, whatever your parents are about Colby and what he does.

Yeah. If you interact with him in person, he's a normal person. It's a weird thing. I don't like that, you know. And when people try to fight him out of the cage, you pulls the phone, you're trying to hit me. What I come from, like, I come from old school in Brazil, man. If you talk something bad about someone's mom or anything,

they go all the way in your house and they're going to wait you downstairs under your house to fight you, you know. It's different. In Brazil, if you do such a thing like that, expect when you're coming off your house, the guy will be right there to fight you. So that gets respect, you know? Like, people don't do those things.

What's the phrase in Portuguese, like something about like a dentist? Yeah, they say respect is good because it keeps your teeth in place. What's the Portuguese for it? Respecto is good because maintain the dent in a place. That just sounds so much better in Portuguese. Yeah, it's better.

That's what Van der Leys said to Sony, I think. Yeah, yeah. That's a well-known thing. It is definitely, you know. Is that really a better way, though, to be violent towards one another? Like, what do you mean? Like, what's the best kind of society? Is it one where, through insult, we solve problems through violence or just to ignore people?

I... A little bit of both, maybe? I don't think violence is the best thing, especially against people. They are not fighters, you know? They don't know what they're doing. So, yeah, I never had, like, street fights. I never, being different from the other guys from my family that had a lot of stories. I never had much, you know, never fought much in the street.

My team is more, like I said before, as a sport, you know. So I'm not a violent guy, so I think that's better. Let's talk about John Danaher for a second. Yeah. So two things. I bought, we had Gordon Ryan here. Oh, nice. So I bought his instructional on guard passing.

Really good. Wow. Hey, buy his string instruction. Yeah. You're not going to tell any, man. It's really good. It was shot. By Jones and by God.

Okay, so that was the other part. And then I bought, so John has a bunch of instructionals, but I bought the attacks from the back. Yeah. And I'm not finished with it yet. Yeah. There is a level to sophistication on that. Yeah. That I don't think most people are aware of. And it's a system, right? Now, did you, you didn't come up through John. You just train with John now? No, I've been training with John for a long time already. Did you come up through Black Belt? No. I came up through Hansel and my father. Okay. And also from Gracie Barha, from Carlos Gracie Jr.

Okay. So my story is when I was, I stayed in Brazil until I was 18 years old, until I was like a Purple Belt, training in Gracie Barha, the main school in Brazil. Then when I was 18, I moved here to New York, and I started training with Hansel since I was like a Purple Belt. But my father has a school one hour from here. So I train with my father and I trained in Hansel. I trained with my father since day one.

We used to train the house and he showed me moves. But then I fine tune here with Hansel. And during that time training with Hansel, since I was like a Purple Bell, I was already training with John. So I train a lot of people and I try to get a little bit of everybody, you know. There are many very good competitors. I don't know how many competitors in schools think about establishing systems and order in the way that John does. That's a John thing, I think, you know. How much did that change your game?

that make you improve so much faster, you know, because you have, like, things that you're going to do, and he knows the results, and he knows that the results are going to be better, you know? In the old old days, that's how it used to be with the Gracie School in Brazil, with Carlos and Eliy, you know. They had a whole system.

Like, when you get into the school, you had to do, like, 30 classes of only self-defense, and you learn all the self-defense. and you learn the hipscapes and you learn the rules and you learn how to fall, you know. So people used to get in the school and they wanted to roll back in the day. And they say, no, no, no, no. You got to do those study classes. When you finish with the study classes, then we're going to go to something else.

So they always, that's an area of Gracie thing, you know, he was very strict. So they had the system already and everybody can see that it works. So and now John is doing kind of the same thing. He has his system, you know, and it works, man. does the Gordon Ryan guard passing I couldn't believe so how much do you train with like those guys like I know Jake Shields is there too yeah I train these guys every day

you know yeah all my no-git training I do at Jones class so I just train with them this morning oh it wasn't yeah well Gordon's injured right yeah Gordon but he still goes there and he watch the moves he's just a maniac you know but Jake is training a lot I train a lot

with Jake always a tough round he's a monster Gary Gary's been training a lot too and all, and it's a bunch of other guys too. You train with Nikki? Yeah, I hate training with that kid, man. Everybody says the same thing. Yeah, and I'm training, and I look for someone else.

He's like, hey, you want to go? Yeah, Nick, I want to go. Yeah. And no, it sucks. He's super tough. And he's that guy that when new people go to the school from another gym, they always pair them with Nikki, you know, like. And then he just runs over him?

He'll kill them. So he's going up against Uriah Faber. It's going to be great. Yeah. You think your Raya stands a chance? Ryan is a very tough guy, but I think the sport has changed. So it's going to be tough for Raya, I think. But Nick is only what?

It's 18, 17. Yeah. So he's still purple, right? I don't even know. He should be black belt. I think so as well. I want to talk about being a Gracie, man. Yeah.

Like, what is it like on one hand, being a Gracie, it must be great? Yeah. On another hand, man. I'll be honest, it sounds like it's a burden time. Yeah, there is two flips of a coin, you know. Like back in school, I had to get in a couple of fights because I was a Gracie, you know. And also I didn't get in fights because I was a Gracie because people respect. And there are people that just wanted to fight me, you know.

So, and since I was competing in Jiu-Jitsu, the same thing. So there is two flips of a coin, you know, like the good thing is that you got to learn from a lot of different. great people, like different great masters. Like I have like, what, 20 uncles, and all of them know a lot of Jiu-Jitsu. So you get to learn from a lot of good, different people. And the bad thing is that you have a target on your back, you know. But since I started competing since I was very young, I'm used to. So that doesn't bother me anymore, you know.

Are there like guys your age and the Gracie family who are like electricians? artists? Like, is everyone a Jiu-Zitsu black belt? Everybody's teaching Jiu-Jitsu. If they're not fighting, they're teaching Jiu-Jitsu, yeah. Wow. So you don't even have a choice. You have. It's just that it's there on your face and everybody's talking about. So you start training, playing around. Yeah, yeah. And you like training, you keep training. Then you get your black belt. And then, okay, what are you going to do about? No, why, my black belt? I'm going to teach J-Zitsu, you know? So it's just there. It's so much easier for you to do that, you know? You know what's great about the Graces now is that you've got Crone over in the UFC.

Now you got you and Belator. There was a while there where there was, the Graces have always been on the map and they're always visible. Obviously, more, a little bit, with Crone was doing sport jiu-jitsu and, you know, had a match with Gary. I'm sure you saw the UCCC. One of the great ones. But now they're getting back into MMA. It's been a long time since the Graces had a premier top talents in several organizations at this point. Yeah, it's true.

Yeah. And we have other graces in Ballator too. Like we have my cousin Conry, Royce's son and we have my cousin Hobson. He trains here with me

he's coming up too. So yeah man we're coming back and we're coming back to take the goal you know? It's the newer generation right?

Yeah, it's the new one, yeah. What do you make about how Crohn's doing? He only had the one fight but he's doing great man he only had one fight and people trying to talk bad things oh it's Alex Caseres

Alex Caseres is damn tough man who had beat him that year? easy like that in the first round. Who? Who did it? From the back? Like, that was pretty amazing. Not only from the back, but he followed out of favor and he did like a three rounds off decision. You know, so you got to respect, man. I'll say one thing about his stand-up that I noticed. And I'm in, I'm nobody's coach, but he did have the old Hickson's step. And when he came in the punch, he went under and clings. You don't think that might get him

into trouble a little bit later? I don't think so. No? Let's see. That's not how you fight, though. Yeah, I find a little bit different, but I think his style is really good too, you know. And also he goes there and he try to trade punches. He's not afraid, too. No, he doesn't move back. Yeah, man. He goes forward. He keeps coming and coming, you know, so, yeah.

When you've rolled with other graces, like, there are guys who are well known to the world. And then there are a bunch of graces who are moderately well known or whatever. It's normal. So many people. Who's the best Gracie you've ever rolled with? Boy, that's hard. Right? Yeah, man.

But I think it was harder. Yeah, Hodger's pretty good He's a monster, you know, and he's huge. When he gets on top of view, you only, like, can only move your eyes? It's paralyzing? It sucks. What about smaller ones? Because he's a bigger one.

If it's not one, you can name a couple. Yeah, I have, like, my cousins are really good, too. Like, Gregor is really good. Igor. Hollis is too big. Yeah, he's huge. Yeah. A bunch of people, Cairo, my cousin, Kiron.

Hobbson, Key one. So many people, man. There's a ton now. I don't know if there are more Gracees also now on the sport jiu-jitsu scene as well? I feel like I've seen a few. Oh yeah, it's Hyron. Yes. He's a monster man.

He's a hyacian son. Oh, okay. And he's 17 years old, 220 pounds. Wow. Six foot four. That kid is a monster man. Is he based out of Brazil still? No, now he's living here with us.

Okay. We bring him over and we're putting him to train really hard. And he's winning out the tournament. remains as a blue belt now, you know? Whoa. Yeah, you would imagine high on son would be. Yeah, and he has their high end spirit on him, so it's tough, he's going to be tough, man. So when you compete in New York here, yeah.

Obviously, it's going to be a lot of your teammates. It's going to be a lot of your students. How does it work in the Gracie family when a Gracie competes? What's it like? Does all the graces reach out? Is it a giant celebration? Or is it, you know, because the family's so big. Yeah, it's a little bit.

But usually, yeah, especially when we're doing good, like some guys. that I don't see for a long time from the family, send me messages. Hey, man, good job, you know. Let's keep going. Let's get another one for the family. So it's a big support, you know, everybody's supporting. Do people ever send you messages? Like, oh, you got to uphold the Gracie name?

No, they don't put that big of a pressure, but like I receive messages, like technical messages. Like, you should have done this. Oh, really? Yeah. Usually Hickson do that for me a lot. Like, I finish a fight and I call him, hey, what did you think about this fight? And he tells me, and he's pretty straightforward, like, hey, you should have done this and that. You lost this position.

You cannot do it, you know. I usually call Hickson and ask him. And also, Hansel, every time. Hansel, he pulls me right after the fight in the backstage and start showing me moves. There was one fight that he got the guy that I just fought. He brought the guy to the locker room. No way. And he put us to roll and asked me to do the things that I couldn't.

had done to do it again. That was crazy. And the guy had no problem with it? The guy, he loved it. That was his name, Dele Pruchon, forgot his name, Roger Carroll. Oh, Roger Carroll, yeah. So he's also a jiu-jitsu guy. So after the fight, we roll in the backstage

and we try to do the things that we couldn't do in the fight, you know. And I was looking at hands like, Hans, I'm kind of tired, you know. I want to go home. No, no, no, no, do this, do that. So we do a couple more rounds in the backstage, you know. Now, this is going to be a welterweight fight, obviously, because it's the welterweight tournament. We were talking about this a bit off camera. You're a fairly, I wouldn't call you a huge welterweight, but you're not a small welterweight by any stretch of the imagination.

How hard is that cut? It sucks, man, you know? Like, it sucks, but it's normal. I'm against these big weight cuts in MMA, even though I'll do it, you know. But I have to do it because everyone else is doing it. But I think we should change that. I think we should put the weight divisions, the way is on the same day of the fight, you know. So people stop doing this crazy because it's so dumb if you think about it.

Everybody's kind of the same size and the same weight. And then we cut 30 pounds, we kill ourselves and we make weight, and then we go back up a little bit. So we are the same size anyways. So why the hell are we killing each other before a fight to make weight, you know? I'm fighting guys the same size as me. So that's so dumb. Do you have professional help with your weight cut? Yeah, I have a guy.

His name is Daniel Dazon. You know, he helps me a lot. And he's been helping me in my last three or four fights, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And so you get down what? What are you right now? Like 195, 190.

Bro, I know lightweight's that big. Yeah. We were talking about Michael Chandler. He walks around 190. Yeah, but he's not that big as his height, you know? Yeah, he's sort of, yeah, that's right. So usually the guys that I'm fight at the same size as me. everything's the same, so it's just dumb, you know.

All right, so who's going to be in your corner for this fight? Henzho? Of course. If he's not coming on a fighting, you know. I told him that already, you know. So Hanzo's going to be there. My coach, Jamie Crowder. Maybe my father will be there.

Like, he's in every fight that I am. Maybe one of my cousins, maybe my boxing coach, Angel. I don't know yet, you know. But usually, Hansel got to be there, yeah. What is, like, when you think professionally about your goals. Obviously, you want to be the champion, right? And then maintain it and win the tournament. Okay, it's a given. Making a lot of money matters to you. And here's why I asked that. It's prize fighting, but you'd be surprised how many prize fighters telling me like, yes, of course,

but... So when I started fighting, my first purse was like ridiculous, you know, I didn't make any money. And some people in my family were saying, man, you can do this. You don't get this fight. You cannot fight for this money, you know? Don't do it. Like, say, man, look, I'm not. I'm not. doing this for the money, you know. If they didn't give me any money, I'll be fighting for free, but don't tell them, yeah, you know. So it's not about the money, but now it is about the money because the belt around your ways, the game changes. So I kind of stopped teaching, I kind of stopped teaching private, I stopped teaching classes a little bit, I'm just training. And I want to give a better life for my daughter and for my wife, you know, so yeah, I want to make money too,

you know. How old's your daughter? She's one year old. Wow, congrats. My wife gave birth last Saturday. Oh, yeah, it's tough, man. Yeah. That's the real work right now. The first month, I'm told, is not that awesome. Yeah, but it's not that bad, too.

We wait for them to start walking around and crawling around the house. That's when it gets real? It's crazy. You're going everywhere to pick her up. Yeah, people told me, like, changing diapers. It's not that big a deal. No, it's not that bad. It's not awesome, but it's not that big a deal.

The bad thing is when they wake up at night, you know, when you've got to wake up and go there. Yeah. But my wife is awesome. She's the best, so she helps me with everything, you know. Thank God I have her. Yeah, it's amazing. Well, I can't wait to see it. I'm going to be there.

All right. This will be Bellator 221. Neiman Gracie. Last thing on this, I'll just say, man, if you win this whole tournament, like, dude, if you think about it. I've got to win, man. Okay, if when, if when, if when. Let's say, let's do the path here. You'd have beaten Ed Ruth.

Yeah. Literally, I don't know if you know this. He's literally maybe the top, one of the top 10 wrestlers of all time in college. Yeah, he's really good. Then Rory McDonald, the big signing from the. the UFC and then either Douglas Lima or MVP. Bro, that's a murderers row. Your profile would explode with that.

We will explode. I knew what I was signing up for when I did it. So, yeah, I can't wait, man. Yeah, I said Belcher 221. It's Belvoir 222. Yeah. This will be June 14th at Madison Square Garden. Your second fight there, that would be kind of fun, right?

That would be great, man. The two best places I've ever fought was there and in Hawaii. So I wish I can only fight there. The only Madison Square in Hawaii. By the way, the Hawaii card looked amazing. What was so fun about it as a competitor? That was awesome, man. Like, just the atmosphere, everything was so good, you know.

I fell at home, like I felt like I was in Brazil. I was about to say the Hawaiians and the Brazilians? Very similar. Yeah, they're different, but same, same, you know? And I have, like, I've been going to Hawaii every year for a couple years now because I love surfing. Yeah. So I knew everybody there.

Everybody are my friends there. So when I was walking around and looking and knew all the faces, so I was at home, you know, and afterwards I stayed there for a whole month, surfing, and it was awesome, man. So let's say you win this whole thing. Do you think you could convince Scott Coker to put a fight in Brazil? Definitely, yeah, we're going to talk for sure. We're one in Brazil and in my neighborhood, in Bahra. It's going to be awesome.

That's where usually they have the other shows at HSBC Arena, you know. Yeah, in Rio. Yeah, in Rio, yeah. So definitely. Well, you know what? It's been great to have you here in studio, man. It's my pleasure, guys. I really appreciate it.

So Bellator 222, you'll be the main event, I'm sure, right? No, no. Is it you the main event or is it Cheel versus Lichita? I think it's Cheo and Matida, but someone was telling me that maybe they're going to change. It's the title fight. Y'all should be on the main event. But they're going to have another title fight that you guys also watch is the Hirogushi against Oh, Caldwell.

Against Caldwell. Yes. This time they fight in a cage, so it's going to. going to be also a good fight. Real quickly, who do you like in that one? Tough fight, but maybe Cardwell, I think. Because it's a smaller round and they're going to be in a cage. It's kind of different.

Also, before he got guillotine, he was doing well. He was winning. He was winning. Yeah, getting takedowns. Yeah, yeah. All right. Thank you so much. Thank you, guys. It's a pleasure to be here.

Don't miss this fight. I'm training super hard. I'm ready. And I'm going to put up a show. Let's do it. All right. Stay right there. Here we have to go.

I want to thank everyone for watching today's show. Ali can't be here. We'll get him back on. in May when he's in studio. So blame him, not me. Thanks to our guests here, Neiman, Michael Chandler, Rose Namibunis, and you guys as well. Keep sending the tweets, The MMA Hour with the hashtag 844-866-24-68 for the soundoff. And until next time, stay frosty.