MMA Fighting - The MMA Hour: Episode 484 (w/ Aljamain Sterling, Darrion Caldwell)

Episode Date: June 10, 2019

On this episode of The MMA Hour, Luke Thomas speaks to Darrion Caldwell about his huge rematch with Kyoji Horiguchi at Bellator 222, not getting respect as Bellator bantamweight champion, how he’d fare against Henry Cejudo, more; Aljamain Sterling about what’s next for him following win over Pedro Munhoz at UFC 238, Henry Cejudo’s win over Marlon Moraes, more. We also take your questions on the latest news in MMA on Sound Off and A Round of Tweets. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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It is Monday, June 10th, 2019, and this is the MMA Hour. everybody my name is luke thomas i am the host of this program thank you so much for watching i greatly appreciate it um okay what a show we have planned for you guys today championship royalty is going to be here bellator bantamway champion darian caldwell is going to be here at about one o'clock in studio right here sitting at this seat in my judgment probably the best fight this weekend at least on paper when he rematches kioj horaguchi your risin champion uh that it's going to be a belator n yc very much looking forward to that contest we'll We'll talk to him about that at 1 o'clock.

At 1.30, top contender, my judgment, the guy who should probably be next for Henry Sado. I guess we'll see how that all shakes out. But for sure, your top-ranked bansomweight. Al Jemaine Sterling will be here, the Funkmaster, after his big win over Pedro Munoz at UFC 238. Plus, speaking of UFC 238, as well as you guys, you're going to be my guess, not one, but two different ways. We're going to talk about all the big issues coming out of the weekend. First, with a round of tweets, using the hashtag the MMA hour. Then with your calls on the soundoff, of course, you can always call 844-866-24-6-8.

International callers. As always, can email a voice clip, TheMMA Hour, at Voxmedia.com. Okay, hope everyone had a great weekend. I spent mine trying to physically repair my body, get sleep when my daughter was asleep, and then watch MMA. I didn't really do a whole lot else. That sounds pretty standard for me. I got my hipster coffee here.

Let's see how it tastes. Ready? Again, these people don't know what they're doing, but, It's edible. All right. So a lot to get to. A lot to get to. UFC 238 was fantastic, I thought.

Generally speaking, a couple of duds here, there. Some controversies here or there. But generally speaking, pretty good. I am told that we had a gazillion calls, by the way. I'm told that the number of calls was astronomically high, which I always like hearing. I always like hearing that. Joe, be ready or what?

Almost? One minute. Anyway, I told we had a bunch of tweets. as well. So thank you to everyone who sent those tweets. Keep sending them using the hashtag the MMA hour. Keep calling 844-866-2468. If you want to turn that off or just flip the lid on it when you give a chance. Thank you, Joe. And we will get going here with the calls. Yes, indeed we will. I was going to do tweets, but I'd rather just do calls and then do tweets at the end of the show because calls are better. I like them more. All right, we ready back there, boys? What's the word?

Yes, no All right, let's do it Time now for the sound off Okay, it's good at my man here In the back, Danny Sigura He's there somewhere there he is, Bigote himself How are you, sir? I'm good, yeah

You can see Casey back there, I see Casey Yeah, he's out there It's dos bigotes Those bigotes, yeah Very good All right, well, nice to see you both, I suppose I heard, as you told me, the calls, Many of them, I see

Man, we had a ridiculous amount of calls It was overwhelming. People were fired up. Yeah, I think, you know, I mean, this was one of the best cards I've seen in a long time. It was great. Probably the best in 2019. Yep. We actually have a question about that.

All right. All right. Let's just waste not another minute. All right. Well, there's a lot of pressing matters, but there's none more important than this one. A tweet came out recently, so I thought we should address it. So let's discuss that. Hey, Luke and Danny.

This is Matthew calling from the armpit of the world. for John of Saskatchewan, Canada. My question is Justin Bieber just made a tweet tagging Dana White in and asking if he was interested in putting on a fight between him and Tom Cruise. Now, this is obviously kind of ridiculous,

but I guess my next question would be, do you ever think we'll see two celebrities to fight the Octagon? And if you guys could pick two celebrities to fight the Octagon, which one would you just pick? And my apologies for the ridiculous question. but it is sort of newsworthy. Thanks.

Yeah, here's the answer. You've already seen a celebrity in CM Punk or Brock Lesnar, either one. Beaver versus Cruz. What you got? Let me explain some to you. I would rather do? Hmm. I would rather watch my family get set on fire in front.

I'd rather watch every member of my family, male or female, be honor killed in front of me, than spend five seconds thinking about that fight. How about that? Well, I got Beaver. I think he'd piece him. he'd piece Cruz up. Bieber wouldn't piece up a kid.

He trains with Floyd though. Bieber wouldn't piece... He trains with Floyd. Yeah, does he? He wouldn't... He wouldn't piece up a kid's meal, please. These guys who've never been in a confrontation in their life, and not that I'm Billy Badass, far from it.

As a street fighter, I'm about 500, bro. I'm a journeyman on the street. I am no more, no less. But at least, you know, a couple times I've had to take care of myself to varying degrees of success. These people who've had security around them a few times, they live in a different universe, bro.

And I take him... Let me take out seriously I take him. About as seriously as Drake, which is to say, not at all. Not at all. How dare you question just in video, man? Two zeros who know nothing about the real world. F them both. All right, well, let's talk about some real fighting now.

And, you know, Henry Suhudo picked up a huge win. I think in a lot of people's eyes, he started, I guess, entering that pound-for-pound conversation. So let's discuss what's next for him. Hey, Luke. This is Peter Dempsey from Yonkers, New York, to Los Borough. I just wanted to ask about Henry Sehudo and what's next for him. I don't see any way he's thinking about him to fight Cruz. Definitely not Garbrand or whoever else he was mentioning.

I see maybe Sterling. I don't know who else it could be, but I love to hear your take on it. Thanks, Luke. Thanks for everything. Yeah, apparently he wants to fight all of all these other clients. He's got a bunch of them. Everyone who's not a top contend. He's got a bunch of them.

Yeah, it was funny all the names he called out because we know that, remember, Garbrandt was supposed to fight in the July show of Sacramento. And he and his manager both said, no, Ali told us that here. And then Cruz is out for the foreseeable future. I mean, I know he's still rehabbing and he's training, but I don't know how ready he is. It was funny he didn't mention any of the top contenders. He just wanted other people with names. It's amazing that these guys, they want to prove themselves against the best fighters that they can.

And this was something of a vanity fight, but also a very tough one. And then when they get to that space, they're like, I am done with the donks. I want to fight. When I say that, I'd be name value. I want to fight anyone and everyone. who's on anyone else's radar. This is what that pay structure incentivizes, to be quite candid with you.

Boxers will fight nobody with any name because they're going to get 40 mil to do it. Triple G. Exactly. Triple G fighting, you know, he's out here just fighting. I mean, I don't want to be disrespectful, but that guy had nothing for him.

And he still got paid to do it. Yeah. The reason why these guys are calling out people with names is because those are the ways they're going to maximize their pay. You want him to stop doing that? Give him a check to fight Al Jermaine Sterling. Because Al Jermaine Sterling,

the end of the cigar is your top contender. You think that's the fight to make? It's that or Joe B, right? I like the Joe B fight a lot. You like that one more? Yeah, because I feel like Sterling with this win, he just got to the queue, right, to the front of the line, whereas Joe B has been there for a minute.

And he has a win over So Huda. Yeah, but he also has a fight at the end of the month. Yeah, well, because he's had no option but to, you know, keep busy. So I think that should be next. And look, I'm all about flyway. like the flywood division. I don't know why it's going away, but we're apparently not going away. But I think that's the fight to make. And I think if you are going to dissolve it, I think Joe B should be at least the last man to get a crack of that bill.

Did you see Dana White's interviews or like things with Aaron Bronstetter? Yeah, I did. It's like, can he answer Aaron's questions without being like awful or rude every single time? Is that possible for Dana? It's like Aaron asking the most fair, utterly reasonable questions. It's just like, what do you mean by the word gone? Have I said it's gone? Well, then if I didn't say the word gone, then it's definitely not gone. It's like, meanwhile, the division has been decimated. I think there's like 10 flyweight's left or something like that.

Which is fine. Like, just say, yeah, we're going to keep it around like women's featherweight. It's going to be like the men's version of women's featherweight. We're just going to have it float in the background. As we need it, we will use it. And that's just what it's going to be. Okay. All right.

Fine. You know. Yeah. I mean, they're pretty upfront about, you know, women's featherweight. Why can't they be about flightweight, you know, men's flyweight? I don't know. Yeah, it's a weird one. All right.

Well, as I said at the top, Sohudo, you know, in a lot of people's eyes, not only started, you know, became, came into that pound-for-pound great conversation, but also just in combat sports athletes in general. I think a lot of people are considered them to be, you know, one of the best. Here's the thing. I haven't done pound-for-pound rankings in literally years. So I don't know how I would answer that one anymore. But certainly I would say this, man, I don't think he's at the top of pound for pound,

but he needs to be taken a lot more seriously than he has. I think at a bare minimum. Yeah, yeah, I agree with that. Well, let's listen to this question and discuss it. It's Paul from Chicago. Chicago. What do you think about Henry Sehudo's claim that he's the greatest combat sports athlete of all time?

My opinion, he's definitely got to be up there, but I wouldn't give it to him. Because the reason he considers himself to be that, or one of the main reasons he considers himself to be that, is because of his wrestling athlete. And I think wrestling is a more limited type. of combat sports. And if you're choosing the greatest combat sports athlete, it should be the closest to a fighting situation with reasonable restrictions,

like the rules they have in place in MMA. Essentially the greatest MMA fighter of all time. All right there. These MMA fans will twist, that's a great question, but MMA fans will twist themselves into a knot to say that other combat sports are limited. Let me explain something to you.

Wrestling has been around for literally hundreds, if not thousands of years. Thousands of years. Okay? And at this current level, the participatory rate of wrestling as a global sport, like how many people compete in it,

is infinitely higher than MMA. There are structures in place in which to advance. In other words, to get to the highest level and stay at the highest level in wrestling, I have terrible news for MMA fans. It is way harder to do that

than it is to become a high-level UFC fighter. That's just a fact. It's not up for debate. It's just the reality. of things. Consider, Cormier made two Olympic teams. Henry could only make one. Yeah. Now, he got his act together and this latest run, I don't mean to demean it, it's incredible. He is certainly, I think, Danny, one of the more versatile combat athletes of all time, because he did well in boxing at the amateur level. Obviously, he's wrestling in the Olympic medal, amazing. And now what he's doing

in MMA, hey, man, he's got something going here. And as I mentioned, his ability to dig deep. But, like, dude, do you understand what it takes to make four Olympic cycles and then metal in all of them? Like an Alexander Carolin or something? Yeah. and yet the highest level of the game in a sport that has super refined, super refined skills. It's more limited, but it's much harder to master. And everybody in the world does it, and you're stomping on them for 16 years,

that's harder to do. It's super hard. And we're discussing here, you know, the greatest combat sports athlete. We're not discussing the greatest MMA fighter. So it includes, you know, all combat sports, no matter how limited or limited you think,

they are. So Henry Sohudo has definitely my opinion, I mean, I've yet to make the list, so I can't think, you know, I can't think of others, you know, right away, but like, Sohudo, not only is, it was he amazing at wrestling, but like, look what he's doing in MMA. It's not like he's going out there and out wrestling, people.

Like, he was beating. He is as needed. He did to Johnson. Well, yeah, that's true. But, like, for example, against Morage, he was doing great in the striking, like, especially in that second and third round. So, here's what I would say, dude. It's pretty incredible. The fact that, like, he's gotten so good in the striking, yet wrestling is his base.

Give him his due. What he did on Saturday is incredible. And him making that claim, I don't think it's true. But in him making it, I think he has a right to say things like that. He feels that way. It makes for an interesting conversation. I think he has the right to bring it up. Like, okay, where does he rank among combat athletes? What he's doing is literally unique because no one else has won an Olympic medal at a gold medal

and then become a two division champions never happened before. At the same time, when you just ask about, like, Loma, Two gold medals, 300 amateur wins. People are like, oh, boxing's more limited. Do you know how much more refined Lomachenko's striking skills are than anyone in the UFC? It's not even close. They're not even in the same universe.

That's why all the UFC champs want to train with that guy. It's like, what are you talking about? They'd be like, well, it's more limited. Yes, and therefore less refined. Yeah, exactly. All right, well, let's talk about Tony Ferguson. and it feels like he's getting a lot more support nowadays than in his previous notes. Not from Dana.

Fan support. Hey, it's Darren calling from Toronto. Hey, Luke and Danny. Just wanted to talk about Tony Ferguson for a bit. I've been watching him for a while and observed that since the Pettist fight and the whole mental health story came out, he seems to have a lot. He seems to have gained a lot of more fans and fan support. Even when you read a social media or video comments, they're almost all positive and rally.

for him to get the next title shot. Everyone seems to love him now and he seems to have a ton of more fans. Have you guys noticed this as well? Or is it just me? And that being said, how much value do you think that actually adds to him getting the next title shot?

And if you had to take a guess, do you think Tony fights for the belt in 2019? Okay, thanks a lot, guys. I think definitely not in 2019, but maybe in 2020. Yeah, they're not going to give him the next fight. I mean, they're setting it all up to not give him the next fight.

But say like negotiations go wrong with Connor, I think. Then he would get it. Tony's the guy, yeah. It's the same situation as a DC, Brock and Stepe. To the extent Brock walks, sure, they'll do a rematch. Right. Yeah. It's the same thing in this one.

To the extent that Connor can't get a deal done, sure, Tony isn't great. If they get a deal done with Connor, forget it. Especially, by the way, now if Porier wins, I don't know exactly how that changes it, because obviously Connor beat Porrier before so they could just do a rematch there. I don't, that's a bit of a weird scenario. It is. Yeah. Because also the bigger fight is with Habib.

And also Habib might want an immediate rematch because, by the way, he was undefeated. You're the first person to beat him. That's right. So that could throw a wrench on the other. Right. So that could throw a wrench on the place. But if Habib wins and they get a deal done with Connor, Tony's going to get railroaded. And they're already setting it up.

Which, by the way, like women. So I saw this on like MMA history today. Women didn't even fight in the UFC the last time he lost. I mean, what? I can't believe this guy. That was what? 2009, I think. No, 2012.

12, yeah. But he's been fighting since before. I had just graduated high school. Yeah, I mean, what are we doing? What are we doing? What are we doing? Yeah, it's crazy. It's insane.

But, like, have you noticed that a lot of people are supporting Tony Ferguson a lot more? I feel like early on he caught a lot of hate. And he was in a way, it kind of feels like he was in that Sahuta situation where, like, he was a bit cringy and fans were just hating on him. But, like, you know, they just came around and I feel like he's getting all the support in the world. And he talked about it. Here's the deal with cringe. And this, I got bad news for people who don't like Colby Covington. if he beats Kamaru Usman,

he's still going to have a degree of haters because he provokes more. Yeah. But if you can be cringe all you want, if you're cringe and winning, it automatically over time just becomes charming. It's just the reality of it. People were like,

they couldn't stand Tony Ferguson before. You think Cunnington will become charming? I think it'll become more charming than he. I think he'll become much more love. If he goes out there and puts it on, Kamar Usman, you watch how fan sentiment turns. Don't misunderstand me. Not the same as Tony.

Far from it. Yeah, I think his type of cringe. is a little different. It is a little different. I acknowledge it's different. But what I'm saying is if you think that the dynamic of fans that it is now with Colby is going to be the same if he beats Camarro, I think he'll be surprised. Yeah. Brendan Chop's style, you'd beat surprised.

We'll see. So about Sehudo and possibly going up 2145? Hey, a letter from Maui, New Jersey. Hopefully you finally answer my question. It's been a while. He's got so bad. It's your chance. So entitled. No, I'm just kidding. But, you know, Henry Suda

talks about moving up in the white class. fight at featherway. What do you think he could possibly win another title by the way? I know style to make matchups, but it seems like if he could get in there and do dirty boxing with his wrestling, I think he's a chance that he could become a three-division champion.

What's your thoughts on that, and do you think it's impossible for him to win that? Well, here's the thing. Like Justin Bieber said, never say never. Never. Is that a song? I think that's what he said. I'm pretty sure. Maybe. Anyways, but I don't know. So who do... Look, there was a clear.

difference between Maraj and Sohuda. Not huge, but Marash, I don't think he's a huge bantam weight. Man, 145 is just, I think it's too much to ask. So remember what I just went over there in the Monday morning analyst? At distance, what was happening, right? Marlon

was tearing him up because at that style of play, he's so much more gifted. Marlon has a reach of 67. All right, so let's play that game, 67 inches. So let's play that game with Max Holloway, for example. By the way, There are other feather weights he could fight.

I mean, who knows who would be up there at the time. But let's just say they said, you know what, let's see if we can get a triple champ on our hands. Which, by the way, is eventually going to happen. Now, Holloway is only at 69 inches, which is a couple more, but he's also a lot taller. So having to punch up. Max is also one of these weird fighters where he's very tall,

but his reach is actually not that long. Right, but he uses it really well. Yeah, he does. He gets every inch out of it. And the point being is he's also tall. He's really good at playing that outside game and then forcing people not only, back, but he stops to clinch pretty well. To me,

would you have stellar takedown defense, you're not only good at the outside, but you're good at maintaining the outside. Marlin's problem was he could have maintained the outside space. He kept getting, he kept getting overrun. The waves kept crashing past the barrier. They don't really, hasn't really happen with Macs. So let's see how we, by the way, let him fight other bantam weights to see how this goes. Some other bantam weights going to beat him eventually, I think, probably. That's how history has typically worked. Maybe another flyway. does, you never know.

But I'm not saying no to the featherweight thing. I'm just saying plenty of reasons to think he's going to have some problems there. I think some matchups could benefit him at featherweight. But again, with small featherweights. But if you like just start reading like the top five of the featherweight division, like Alexander Volcanovsky, that guy's big. Brown Retega's pretty big. Jose Aldo's big.

Like, I feel like, I don't know. I just don't see him. I just don't see him doing well at 145. And not because he's not skilled, it's just the size difference is going to be way to watch. Eventually, weight classes matter.

Yeah. They're in for a reason, right? They're in place for a reason. Yeah. All right, well, let's discuss now what's next for Valentina. That win was... Jesus Christ, bro.

What's something else? Hey, Rich P. Representing Las Vegas, Nevada. We just watch Valentina murder Jessica I in there. My only question is, what's next for her? Does the UFC get behind her

like full guns, blazing, promotion, everything? and who's her next opponent? Who wants to step in there? For real. I want to step in there, dude. Kayla Shukean says she wants that smoke. I mean, I'm sure fighters do, of course.

But, man, that was scary. That was a super scary performance. Yeah, that was really scary. That was really bad. That was really bad. I made this point, again, on my personal post-fight special, which was, you know, what do you do when your top contenders, like the most deserving person in a division,

is so far behind the challenge. champ that it ends up being a mismatch. How do you book around that? People like, oh, they did that for DJ for years. Sort of. The Carioso fight and the Borg fight were the only two fights that he had in terms of an odds that approximated this one. But even then, like, could she honestly have a series of defenses, let's say four more where she's a minus 1,000 favorite in all of them? It's honestly possible. And that would be unheard of in the UFC. That would be totally unheard of. We might get something like that with her.

Yeah. She is. Do you ever seen her in person? Have I met her in person? I don't know. I don't know how fighters I don't know how people who've never met fires how they imagine how they look.

I once I'm had Kayla Harrison in studio on my radio show. Dude, Kayla Harrison is jacked. She's super jacked. Yeah. There's like, okay, so I asked you this before. You've seen Yuel Romero in person, right? Dude, when Yuel walks around,

he doesn't look like a normal person. No. He looks like a, he looks like he was written by a comic book artist. That's how Shevchenko looks. She's not like a bodybuilder huge, but what muscle she has, like nothing jiggles.

She's just super chiseled. Yeah, she looks very, chiseled. And, yeah, and dense. And when you add that with someone who's been doing this for as long as she has, and she has as skills as refined as she does, I went back and I showed you the timing on the kick. Yeah, she's so technically.

It's just, these other women, they're not even, they're not even, Here's how she's going to lose. She has to be sick, injured, or make a very serious mistake. Yeah. Other than that, she ain't losing. Or who knows, maybe like in the next two, three years, some contender rises up or somebody from another promotion comes in and, you know.

Macy Barber is interesting. May see Barber is interesting. Well, look, am I saying she's ready now? No, no, no, no, no. In a couple of years, let's see. Let's see how she looks in a couple of years. But, like, that's the time horizon that we're talking about here. Yeah.

I also think, you know, in discussing what's next, I think, you know, if they ever run back Nunes versus Shafshanko, I think, you know, there's a possibility Valentina can definitely lose there. I mean, she's lost twice, technically, to Nunes. Yeah. But I think at 1.25, good luck, good luck stopping her. I don't know. I don't know who it's going to be. By the way, again, I'll say it again. I thought she beat Nunes the second time.

The second time. I remember being close, but I don't, I feel like I scored it for Nunes. I might have scored it for Nunes. But it was super close fight. reasonable people can distinguish. Doesn't it make it more interesting now with these results? Yeah. Let's see what happens with the home.

But, I mean, we could potentially have another, like, super fight in the making if, you know, the stars aligned. Yep. All right. Now, let's discuss, I guess, you know, looking back now, people were a little bit upset that, you know, Ferguson, Seroni wasn't headlining in this car. So let's discuss that, you know, looking back. I have a name's Hayden I'm calling from Phoenix Arizona I called earlier

forgot my question but now I remember I'm re-watching the the Tony Cowboys point and honestly it's the biggest disappointment I think I've ever seen and the UFC we have three rounds that got robbed by doctor where it was

a beautiful and then we watched two fights that I would believe did not deserve to be over this fight what is your opinion on star power compared to title fights because obviously on this card title fights were more important

as star power and I think Connor never fights again because of that let me know thank you can we just address the robbed by the doctor claim here very quickly bro come on they should have let him fight like he had a one eye like what is like the guy the caller's like hey is this the Luke Thomas and Danny Sigurda show hey man these doctors got some nerve upholding the Hippocratic Like, oh, like, who thinks that way?

I don't even understand. Like, what do you want to do? Do you want to look at that eye and be like, nah, they're good. Yeah. First, do no harm, dingleberries. Like, how was this? Okay, all right. Neither here nor there.

Yeah. Here's the thing. I have come around on this one, Danny. Would you have been opposed if they had put Tony versus Ferg, sorry, Tony versus Soroni? No. At the top of that card. Yes or no. Yes, I would.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. me why? I like the title fights on top, man. Okay. I feel like the title fights, you know, they've been devalued over time, but I think we need to pay respect for the people that made it to the top, right?

For the people that are fighting for gold. And look, Tony Ferguson, you can make an argument that Tony Ferguson and Donald Soroni are deserving for a title shot and they should have been fighting for a title a while back. But nonetheless, it's not an official title fight. I feel like that should always go over no matter how big the fight is. I think you can maybe make some exceptions, say Ronda and Connor, say if Ronda ever comes back. But other than that, title should go first. And that's why I'm all for Bellator putting Rory McDonald and

Neiman Gracie over Machita and Sunday. You feel the same way? I don't. Well, here's what I mean. I don't disagree with anything you said. Like, if they want to make titles at the top of cards, that's fine. Here's the thing that MMA fans and journalists too, by the way, because they make this mistake as often as everybody else says, if not worse. You have, you have, you have leadership under sworn deposition saying, guys, the titles don't mean anything. It's just a trophy we hand out to the best fighter at the end of the night. Who said that? Lawrence Epstein.

Lawrence Epstein said it, who is a key figure in that organization. He said it quite plain. I believe Lorenzo Fertita may have repeated it as well. It is a core conviction of theirs. When push came to shove, what the organization maintains is that it doesn't mean anything other than it's something we give to the best fighter that night. Well, if that's the case, then why am I asked to hold it in reverence? And if that's the case, sure, put Tony versus Seroni at the top of the card.

In other words, I like what you said, Danny. There's something to be said for really accomplished people getting featured in really prominent spots, and I think that's fine. But I don't know why we're asked to believe something that's a fiction. It is a fiction that it means, according to UFC brass, you and I can put value on top of it. But at the end of the day, it's not the Danny Seguerah title, and it ain't the Luke Thomas title. It ain't the MMA Hour title.

It's the UFC title. The only value is what they put on it. Under sworn testimony, it has none. So if that's the case, why am I asked to care? And by the way, why shouldn't Tony be at the top of that card? Hello? He was far and away the biggest star on that card, not even a close second. Well, I guess Serrani was the close second.

That's it. Right. Still, I don't know. Called me old school, but I think titles should go last. Also, like, yeah, it would just feel weird to have, like, you know, some, like, crowning a champion yet, you know, then you put on a regular fight just right after. Like, it just feels anticlimatic.

I don't know. What's the word on Mr. Caldwell? We got an issue? I texted people involved in the show. Yes. And we're still looking into it. Okay. He's not here?

No, and it hasn't gone back to me. Oh, sweet. So let's answer another question. That's awesome. Let's talk about another fighter that was... All right. Sorry. Sorry.

It's just... You good? Yeah, it's just my life. My life is just a fair ago of nonsense. Go ahead. Let's talk about another fighter who did quite well, and I feel like, you know, she's being forgotten about here

with all these crazy finishes that we saw. Hey, guys. It's Joshy fresh from San Diego again. I just got done watching the Carolina versus Grasso fight, and oh my goodness, did you expect Grasso to come out looking the way she did?

she basically outclassed Carolina, which I don't remember another fighter doing in recent times. Do we have a future star on our hands? Keep up to great work, guys. Peace. With Carolina. What you think of Grasso's performance? You know, here's the thing.

If anyone's ever trained, you'll spend quite literally it's possible. I've seen guys who are like, I trained for six months. I got Blue Belt. I trained for another two years. I got purple. And then I was purple for five years.

There can be moments in your career where you just progress like this and then you just plateau. And I felt like Grasso had kind of plateaued for a little while, except in this last fight, whatever stasis she was in,

she had clearly zoomed past, made tons of progress. Conversely, Carolina Kovilkevich appears to have entered some kind of situation where she is now in a, what do you want to say, a battle for,

she's stuck. She's stuck in the mud. So it's these moments where you can progress, progress, and these moments where you can just train hard and you just can't get better. And then all of a sudden, it clicks. Yeah. I think that's what happened here.

Also, you know, I feel like Grasso was given some tough matchup, especially like the Tatiana Suarez one, was a really tough matchup with Carolina Colokavich. She really got an opportunity to, like, showcase her skill because it was someone that is very tough, very skilled, and very experienced as well. But her skill set played well into her. So it really brought up the best out of her.

And that was, you know, it was nice to watch. Let me ask you a question. Do you need to make a phone call to find Mr. Cald? Yeah, do you want to leave you with a call? Yeah, leave me with a call. And then the camera will go on me and then you figure this out because I would like to talk to Daryan. Yeah. It'd be nice if he was here.

Yeah. We are waiting for him. All right. So about Mr. Chris Whiteman. Really? Okay. Yeah. Well, the call will take care of.

I did not pay attention to what you had to say. Okay, go ahead. Yo, yo, Luke, Danny, Nino from Washington Township, New Jersey. How he's doing? I got a question here for you. So recently, Chris Wyman has come out and said that he would like to move up to 205 pounds.

I just want to know who you think would be a good matchup or his first roundabout at 205. Obviously, a lot of middleweights had been moving up, like Anthony Smith, Tiago Santos. they're having success. Leuropro just moved up also. I just want to know,

if you think Chris Wyman's going to have a lot of success at 205, and who do you think he's going to get for his first matchup, or who would make sense for his first matchup? Thank you guys. Love your show. Have a good day. Good question. I did not know he had said that, so that's interesting.

I would say, what about Shogun? What about Shogun first, first match? You'd be like, oh, my God, Shogun should be done. Okay, well, if he's not going to be done, then how about that? By the way, I got to say this, I love the idea of Chris Wyden going up to 205 pounds.

I think it's long overdue. Chris Wyden has a ton of ability. He has a ton left to offer the game. And with people getting a little bit older, putting less stress on their body to make a certain weight, which allows for extra time for skill development, it's just so important.

And so you've seen what Anthony Smith has been able to do. You can say, oh, well, he fought in a lesser division when he went up, right, except he also clearly got better too, because he had time in each camp to invest. He had time in each camp, to just work on skills rather than, oh, we got to go do some high-intensity interval training.

We have to go do road work. We have to go do X. We have to go do Y. We have to go do Z instead. we can just invest in the skills. And so I think that would be a huge, huge component. Plus, you could do a Luke Rockhold rematch up there. I don't know about for their first fight.

But here's the top, here's outside of the top 10 because I wouldn't give him somebody in the top 10. You got Alexander Rackich at 11. Rackich, I would preserve for somebody else moving up the chain. Maybe they could fight at a later date, but Johnny Walker at 12, same kind of thing. 13 is Shogun, 14, Sorkanov, or 15 Krillov. Any of those, I think, would be good. All right, I'm told we actually now have Mr. Caldwell here.

Let's bring him on in. He fights this weekend, maybe the best fight of the weekend. He takes on Kioji Hortiguchi in the long-awaited rematch. There he is. There he is, Mr. Wolfpack himself. How are you, sir? Good. Nice to meet you.

Have a seat, my friend. Yes, sir. I thought we were going to lose you there for a little while. Not at all. I'm here, baby. How are you been to New York City before, yeah? Absolutely. I'm a Jersey boy.

Oh, that's right. How could I possibly forget? So you're going to have a ton of fam there? Absolutely. Yeah, you like it that way? Yeah, man. I love the support, you know, more support than better. When you wrestled, did you have a ton of Famcom?

Absolutely. By the way, I've always been to what, ask you this, how did you end up at NC State of all places? Now, I know they had like Guzdowski, they've got a decent program there, but like you were like the top dog. I don't mean to demean NC State. It's a fine program.

Well, but you could have gone anywhere, so I guess what I'm saying. For sure, I definitely could have gone anywhere. Before I went to NC State, it wasn't really a traditional wrestling school in a program. I feel like when I beat Metcalfe and I, I brought some spotlight into the organization is when, you know, you see the G-Wizzes and you see the Kevin Jackson, you see all the other studs come up across, you know, that

platform. But I really feel like I catapulted the Wolfpack Wrestling Club in 2009 when I won the NCAA championship. Before then, it wasn't an All-American since like 1992. So a big reason why I went there was we had. We had Tony Davis there. He was a national champ at Northern Iowa. And so he was real vocal and really just hands on

hands on in my college career. And so I just really took a liking to his style and it fit me well. Have you do go back at all? I've been back. I actually went back September, last September. We had a golf out and they brought a bunch of alumni there. Are you a big golfer?

Not at all. Yeah, no, not at all. I went there for the shoots and giggles. Yeah. Just we're going to see the college kids? They look so young. Already now 31? 31.

They must look super young to you. Yeah, and they're big and they're strong too. I'm like, damn, I got in the wrestling room. I'm like, man, they're a different beast over here. Yeah, they're all like Zion Williamson. Yeah. They're all enormous. They brought me on the football film.

I'm like, man, I don't remember the football players being this big. Maybe it was just a hat, like, you see that picture of the cat looking at himself in the mirror and you see a line on the other side. Maybe I was just like in that, in that mode, that whole college, my whole college career. Let me ask you. I think I read this. Part of your wrestling ambitions after college got derailed by shoulder injuries. Yes.

Now what happened to your shoulders? Well, it was a freak accident. Honestly, it was rollerblade and doing some crazy. That's a very late 90s thing to do. Real talk. Like, I grew up, like, skateboard, like, trying to skateboard, like, you know, just like, I like wheels. I like things that are a little edgy, you know. And so one night I just happened to, like, see some kids walking past.

And they had rollerblades. their hands. I'm like, oh, what size are they? And they fit me. And I think it was just like perfect. It was just a perfect night for me to get injured. I wound up taking the fall, bust my shoulder up, try to come back a little early, bust it up again, wrestling Angel Suhudo at the Olympic Training Center. Yeah. He's a, he got really strong hips, you know. No relation to Henry, I don't believe. No, that's his brother. Is it really? Yeah. So he was at the Olympa Training Center training a little bit. And then like I came back like six, seven months after my initial surgery.

What kind of surgery did you get? It was just a regular orthoscopic surgery. Was it like labrum? Oh, labrum, yeah. Yeah, I had the labrum one as well, which is why I ask. You know, and with those, you got to take your time, you know, and especially wrestling, like the positions you put yourself in wrestling and just real compromising with the shoulders.

And so when I came back, I think I rushed the rehab process, and I went out to the LIMC training center, try to, because I was doing really well, you know, before that injury, you know. I feel like I was at the pinnacle of sport, and I just wanted to get back on top. And so I wound up busting up my shoulder again, had to get another surgery. And so my whole, I redshirted that year,

before that, or after that first surgery, came back and then busted up again. And it was inevitable, I needed another surgery. I didn't get it, my red shirt senior year. I just kind of wrestled the whole year. It kept coming in and out. And after nationals, I didn't do well at nationals. I went like one and two, and then,

or one and then I bust my shoulder up in my second match and I just forfeited out the tournament, you know? Now, how come it doesn't bother you in MMA? Or maybe it does? Well, no, it's been so long, you know? A lot of rehab, a lot of recovery. It's been about eight years since my shoulder has been, you know, messed up.

No, no subsequent issues? No, no problems. Oh, okay. Even when someone's doing Camoras or anything like that? No problems. Oh, man, mine never feels the same. I'm never. I got to.

Is it on your dominant hand? Yeah, my dominant head. So I got a bionic shodontic shoulder, you know. It's like, I invite you to come try my shoulder. Do you have the same range of motion? Absolutely. See, I don't. They purposely, when they restitched mine, they purposely limited range.

Like I can show you. So like I'm left-handed. This is the one I have repaired. So I can take this, I can go this far out. This is my left hand. Man. They purposely stitched it so that I couldn't. Yeah.

Because mine was falling out of my socket in my sleep. Yeah. Yeah, me too. I would be sleeping and just, oh. Whoa, what's going on? Like, yeah, for sure. So what they did with mine was they took it and they kind of made it so tight rather than just taking it and like stitching it up here inside.

They overlapped it. And it took a while for me to get that range of motion back, you know. But when I got it back, you know, it just was regular normal. How excited are you for this rematch? I got to tell you, I'm super pumped. This might be the best fight on paper this weekend. There's some good fights. Don't get me wrong.

There's some good fights. I think this is the one. This is the only one that matters, honestly. This is the only fight for a real belt. This is the only fight. I mean, you got two of the best, two of the very best 35 pounders in the world. And to me, this is,

and I'm sure that a lot of people, this is the only fight that matters. All right, so let's talk about the first one. So you go over to Japan. How was the trip to Japan, by the way? So many people complained about the jet lag. Did the jet lag affect you at all? I think anything that could have went wrong in Japan, it did.

Really? Yeah, I mean. But you were winning right up until you weren't, sort of. Yeah, I think it was a loss of focus, you know. But mental lapse, you know, and I learned from that, you know, I learned from there. Let's back up a step. You said anything that could go wrong in Japan did. So let's go through things.

What went wrong? Well, usually, you know, let's take yesterday for instance of that, I'll get here in New York, you know, five days out from the fight. When, right where I want to be, I'm 1.45 right now, you know. Usually that's where I'm at, you know, when I come in for a fight week. I got to Japan, I was like 154, 155. So already I'm like fighting, you know, my weight. And then just like the hydration process, like figuring out foods and, you know, figuring out, like we were doing like, we were like touring the city. Like, you know, where I'm like, I'm not used to being a tourist, you know.

And so, you know, I really just feel like that maybe like just overwhelm me, you know. So, and people always talk about like, yeah, you know, how does. the Japanese crowd. I love the Japanese crowd. They're super quiet, but what they don't really know is it was actually a party before the fight. When I usually get to the arena, it's about two or three hours before, you know, and I'm fighting. I was at the arena for like eight, nine hours just sitting around, you know, and any time I try to go to sleep, you know, get some rest, somebody's waking me up, you know, so, you know, I was like, to that third round, I just wasn't as focused as I could have been. So I feel like anything that could have went wrong, it just wasn't my night.

I learned from that and I move forward and June 14 I'm gonna take this guy out. All right, so let's talk about some of the other things. We saw what stage North Carolina, he was a striker, fought another striker, but it was in a ring, which has completely different spatial dynamics. One, everything's the right angle, so it's sharp corners and two, the ropes are a little bit different. So how much of the right angles and the ropes were an issue when you fought Gordoguchi the first time? Well, I just feel like, you know, just the whole stop in the fight, in the middle of a fight, you know, when I got reset position. I think that threw me off, you know, maybe put them in better position,

but, you know, they did put me back in the position and I lost it, you know, so it was, it wasn't anything that the, I could have finished the fight and I should have finished the fight, so it was my fault, you know, but definitely the ring played a factor, you know, I was exerting energy in places where I shouldn't have, where, you know, if it was in a cage, you know, it's not foreign, it's, It's not new. I know where I exert energy, where I can position myself. Like when to advance on a position, when to hold it. Absolutely.

Right. You know, slipping through that, we were slipping through the cage. It was chaos, you know. Yeah, that's a weird one. But still, you were doing pretty good. So you got submitted in the third round, if I'm not mistaken. First two rounds were all yours, though. Yeah, no, he had some success on his feet.

You know, he caught me off balance a few times, you know. Yeah, lack of focus probably, you know. But yeah, I think that third round, if you watch that fight, you know, I literally put him in position to submit me. I literally took him down, you know, rather than posturing up, I took my head, put it on his, like, here. I took his leg, put it here, you know, and pretty much. He just took what was there. Yeah, he just, I gave it to him, you know, and so I'm not going to give him anything. He's not going to have any room to breathe.

All right. So did you, have you gone back and watch the fight? Yeah, I went back and watched the fight. Do you normally do that? I get a variety of answers when I talked to fighters about that. Well, it just depends. You know, this one, I needed to know where I went wrong, you know, what happened, you know, because I knew it wasn't the ability.

I knew it wasn't like the actual fight. I knew it was a mental lapse and I wanted to know where it was that I was, I took myself out of the game. Did you recognize yourself? Do you know what I mean? Like sometimes I'll talk to fighters, they'll watch tape and they'll say, I don't even see my, like, that's just another person in there like what did what did you see i think that that that could be for all fights you know when when you under the big lights and you're fighting you know a different you is definitely in there but uh no i don't feel like i was i was executing the way i wanted to um i had a game plan but you know

once i stepped in the case i forgot about the game plan and i wasn't able to execute what i wanted you know And it was definitely a difference, but, you know, it happens, you know. So that's what it's so many variables in a sport, you know, we learn and we grow, you know. Did you fly coach? Did I what? Did you fly coach? Fly coach? Like on the plane?

Yeah, they had me in the middle seat. They had me in the middle seat. How was the champion in the middle seat, man? Bro, how long is that flight? Ten hours or something crazy. From California. Yeah, from California. That's still pretty long.

Yeah, no, it was a grueling flight. You know, it was overwhelming. But the funny thing is I'll do it all over again. What do you mean? I want to go back to Japan and, you know. Because you want a new experience. We can do it all over again the same way. But the results are going to change.

You know, the preparation is going to change. And I know I had little to no experience. In the ring, you know, practicing, like, leading up to that fight, I'd maybe jumped in the ring, maybe one or two times, you know. And that was for padwork. It wasn't wrestling. It wasn't, like, you know, just familiarizing myself with positions I know inside the ring. You know, it was a lot of stand-up, you know, thinking I was a boxer. Mayweather, who's on the car, you know, I'm thinking, like, I'm going to try to stand up with this guy.

And you see a lot of stand-up, but it just wasn't an executed gameplay and while I execute a gameplan on my part. Did you get a chance to meet Mayweather? I seen them. I want to fight them, you know? So I was in there, like, talking shit. Like, you know, this guy's next. Like, you know, because you put those big gloves on, it's it. It's not like enemy gloves, you know?

Certainly isn't. Like, yeah, your heart gets bigger once those bigger gloves. With them small gloves, you know, and when I can grab people, it just makes everything easier. Now, why didn't you train in the easier, you know, hindsight's almost 20-20, But why not train in the ring? Because, you know, did you just think it wouldn't be that different? Well, I don't know why I would like to.

You had access to a ring, right? Yes. Yeah, we got a ring in our gym, but for one reason, another, we didn't go in there, you know? That's interesting. Now, this time around, you have to worry about any of that. Back into the cage. Yes. How do you think he's going to fare?

Because here's the thing. He has experience in the cage as well. This is a well-credentialed opponent, but nevertheless, this is your home. Let's put it that way. Plus, has he ever fought in a circular cage? Because the circular cage is different than the flat paneled cage as well. I think he hasn't. Yeah, he's familiar with the cage.

He's had success in the cage. He worked his way up to a world title against Demetius Johnson, you know? But I just don't feel like he's going to be as comfortable as I'm going to be with the surroundings. I feel like the cage is going to work in my benefit. Do you feel like you have something to prove? Just to myself, you know, because I know. you know because i know there's not a 135 pounder in the world that i can't beat you know he's he's that guy you know he beat me and it's my it's my turn by way do you still rollerblade

to this day never yeah just that one time never i don't know no skateboard nothing like that just no no no no no no no no no i don't mess with the sharks like i don't mess with the water no yeah i'll i'll go to the beach but i ain't jumping in that water like that's not all the jihitsu guys do that yeah they well get all the brazilians in here they all they all surf. Yeah, they, that's what, that's what they come from. They come from, you know, Brazil where, you know, the sharks are on the shore. So, like, to be, being in a water in San Diego, they're cool with that. All right, fair enough. So let's talk about some of the fight pieces of themselves. When you were locking up with him, even though everything had gone wrong, how did he feel

physically? Oh, he's strong. Yeah, he's definitely stronger. One of the stronger guys I've ever fought, you know? Um, really? Yeah, he is, though. He's like, and then the thing about, uh, coming up from 25, you know, we see it with Henry and, you know, we see it with, you know, these guys going up and wait, you got all your strength, you know, as opposed to guys that's cut weight, you know. So it definitely plays a factor where he has all his strength. And, you know, I still got my strength, but he's as strong as he's going to be at 135, you know, as opposed to a 125, you know. His mental gain was surprised and I wasn't used to that.

You know, I'm used to, you know, second or third round, breaking guys, you know, and looking across the kids, and I see them worn out, you know. And so for him, it wasn't the same. So for me, going into this fight, it's not about breaking them mentally. I'm going to break his body, I'm going to shut his body off. Do you lift weights more now or when you were wrestling? When I was wrestling, for sure. What's the diff?

Why? I think that college, just like the whole college mentality. Yeah, you know, they eat weights up in college. And now you don't really need it. I just focus on, like, staying lean, you know, explosive. You still feel like you're strong? Oh, yeah, I'm as strong as it. Like when you lock up with the other 135 wrist?

Well, I actually brought in some Arizona wrestlers, and I was wrestling with a kid, he's 19. And when I grabbed him, he had a different strength than anybody I was going with inside the HMMA gym. And I was like, man, these wrestlers are really freaking strong. It was a difference for sure. But still, you're competitive. Absolutely.

You find ways around it, you know? Speed kill. It certainly does. Let's talk about the 135ers in the UFC because what's interesting about this fight is, number one, it's a rematch and it's interesting and everything we've been talking about. But it's sort of like a world title to a degree, right? It's the best guy in Japan, Risen, more than Japan. But, okay, it's where it's based.

versus the best guy in Bellator. And then you saw what Henry did against Marlon. Did you expect Henry to do that? I expected it. Did you? I was called by surprise. Tell me why you expected it. Well, he's just, he's a champion, you know.

He's won on every level of his combative career, you know. I mean, same as me, you know. It's not like guys are coming from out of nowhere, you know, and just winning world championships. You know, like, I'm sure guys like Adasania, guys like Kamara Usman, these guys have been doing this, you know, from, you know, grade school, and that's what Henry's been doing.

He's been winning since grade school, and it's not going to change, you know. But it's when you get guys that, both guys have been winning since grade school, and, you know, that's where you, you know, you're going to, that's what you're seeing now you're seeing. And I don't know Marlon's background, but I know Henry's a champion.

I know he's one on every level. So I kind of knew he, after beating Dillishaw, like, I thought Dillishaw was the best guy in the division outside of Dominic Cruz. And Henry, he just ran over him. So I kind of thought, figured that. But I've always questioned Henry's mental toughness. And if he can. Tell folks why?

Because I made the point here, when he didn't make the 2012 national team, coming off the gold medal, you thought this guy was a lock to make the team. I don't think he made it past the semis, if not the quarters. But, and then he, you know, he just kind of fell off. He retired. He had the whole falling out with Terry Brands. There was a lot of people being like, I don't know if this guy's going to work. And he missed weight twice in Legacy, you know, but he eventually caught up.

But why were you questioning? Well, that's those are. Yeah, all of those things, you know. And when you're talking about quitting the sport, you know, you start to, you know, we've seen that with Rory McDonald. And, you know, we've seen his last performance. He won a fight, you know, but that's not the best Roarie McDonald we've seen, you know. And so whenever you start doubting yourself and you start doubting your abilities and what you're in a sport for, you know, that's all mental, you know. And so for me, just questioned his mental toughness.

And he was able to, you know, pull out, like, be down in the first this last fight and win. Second round, I think. Third. Third round, you know. But that's a credit to, you know, just sticking with it and grind. you know and that's what wrestling that's what wrestling um it brings out of you know it gives you that never say die attitude and uh it instills those values and Daniel cormier told me something once about wrestlers it's not just that like

i thought your earlier point was quite astute which is like oh you gotta get the guys who have been winning since the very beginning he made a point he goes what's like what sets ronda apart from these women she's a better athlete probably but like is that really what sets her part. What sets her apart is that she's been a lifelong athlete from day one when she was five, she was competing at whatever the highest level of her five-year-olds is, and then seven, nine, 11, 15, whatever, blah, blah. And at every interval, she's been the highest level and she's been doing it since you had any athletic skill at all. That's what Henry's been doing. That's what you've been doing. That to me is the difference. Marlon looks the part like he is chiseled out of stone,

and maybe he's been one, I don't know, I can't, I can't say what any degree is. certainty, but that to me is the difference, right? That's why Formia succeeds. You succeed. Absolutely. That's the difference there. Absolutely. Very rarely are you going to see a guy in high school start their career wrestling and

be a state champ by their senior year, you know? Start the freshman and senior year, you win in states, you know, very rarely you see that. You know, you- Especially in New Jersey. Especially in New Jersey, you know. And so it's countless hours because guys are really programmed to be a certain way and be circuit and an athlete and years and years of experience of that you know it's definitely going to beat just an athletic and shit guy you know if you fought henry what's the key to beating him

i just beat him what does that mean he ain't fucking with me period what was that mean it's just it's just not he's a little guy you know you are big for a man's i would have to say he's a little guy like he's he's like horaguchi you know um uh 2000 and what's Six, we're on a Dapper Dan together, where it's Team USA, which is the number one wrestlers in the country, which we were, myself and Henry were, versus Team Pennsylvania, which is predominantly the best wrestling state, you know, in the country.

And he was just so small, and I never looked at him as a threat, and I still don't look at Henry as a threat. He's just, he's a champion in a different division, a different organization, I'm at. And once the UFC and, which we probably know we know it probably won't happen so soon but once the ufc starts cross-promoting and cross you know agrees to fight their chance versus guy or champs like bellator's champs

and whatever other champs then you're the guy oh i'm the guy i'm i mean it is what it is again henry's not a threat um i would like the i would like that fight you know just because um I know it'll go my way and the UFC guys get more, more pub, more everything, yeah? And so... Hey, you're here. I know. I know. And it's a pleasure to be here.

Of course. So for me, Henry's not a threat. I get my hands on that guy. All right. Very good. So for this week, is there a plan in terms of what you want out of Saturday? Is it just a W? Or is there some kind of like Dary and Caldwell stamp trying to put on this guy?

I got to finish this guy. If I don't finish this guy, I'm not happy. I'm never really happy with just a win. You know, to me, a win is just a loss. Like, I got to finish this guy. I'll only be happy if I finish them. It's pretty hard to finish, though. Even Demetrius Johnson.

Granted, it was a while ago and a different weight class. But he's finishable, yeah? He is. But who isn't? Truth. Who isn't? Nobody's susceptible to losing. Is he the best guy you fought?

Harguchi? Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, far in away, right? Yeah, for sure. Because the time and glow won, he caught you earlier in your career. This one is still,

this is your more senior level at this point. Yeah, no, I'm definitely a vet in the sport, you know, and I think it's time that I start getting the credit that I deserve. You don't think you do? No, I don't. I think people overlook me, and they overlooked because I fight for Bellatory,

which isn't the UFC, because whatever reason or not, you know, I think I've always been overlooked, whether I've been wrestling, you know, where I go in there and beat a Mekaf, pin a Mekkaff, you know, in 2008, and then 2009 I'm a big underdog. How does that happen?

I just pinned the guy last year. Whatever may be, like, I just don't get the credit I deserve, but I'll continue to win, so it doesn't really matter to me, you know? So is this fight with Horaguchi, is this, best of bansom weight on the planet in your mind? Absolutely.

Yeah? You think Horoguchi's better than Henry Savo? Absolutely. Really? I do. Wow. That's bold. If you see Henry's style, he mimics, you know, Horaguchi.

He probably went back to the drawing board. Like, who gave Demetrius Johnson their biggest fight, their hardest fight? You know, and before Henry beat Demetrius, Herguchi was the best fight that Demetius had. That's true. You know? And so I'm sure he, and him before that, Henry didn't fight in that karate style, you know. So I'm sure he went back to the drawing board, used some of his, some of his tactics, his techniques. And, you know, now you have Henry Suhudo 2.0 who looks like a karate-style wrestler.

Karate style wrestlers, although he had to kind of box his way on this one. Yeah, for sure. But let me ask you, the neck tattoos. Yeah. How painful is that? Actually, they weren't painful. I have a hard time believing that. Nah.

The painful tattoos were these right here. Yeah, I've got some rib tattoos as well. Yeah, those were painful. These didn't hurt? No, they got this numbing cream where you put it on for an hour. You take it off and you let it sit for about 30 seconds and you're good for four hours and you don't feel a thing. Wow.

Yeah, so if your tattoo artist ain't using a numbing cream, then. Bro, he's just knuckling me into the dirt with that needle gun. Good Lord. I never even heard of that. tattoos I never even heard of that thing yeah no for sure the number clean is is definitely especially when you're going through eight hour sessions you know I went through like a eight hour session with you know my neck and then my my watch the microphone my neck and then my stomach you know so you know no definitely when when you when you're going through that type of trauma you want to

want to numb it up are you going to do the john wall bit where you just get covered head to toe absolutely yeah I'm not finished yeah no I always no face test though that's isn't that really millennial? It's like real millennial to do that. No, for sure. No face tachio. No, Takashi 6.9? The closest to my face is maybe here. Let me see. You know, behind the, behind the, yeah, behind the ears right behind the

the beard line. Yeah, the bear line, but the face tattoos, I think they're overrated. Yeah, I've noticed like all these millennial rappers, I don't know what you call Post Malone, whatever he is. They all got the face work done. Yeah. That all seemed like a bridge too far to me. Yeah, no, I still, I'm

already intimidated, and I don't need to be like that Intimidated. Fair enough. I got to tell you, well, I'm looking forward to your five, man. It is going to be it. It's real quickly, we'll let you go. Sonner and Machita, who do you like? Pick a side. I like Chale Sonner. You know what? I like him on this one, too. Yes. Got to be honest. I like it. Rory versus Neiman Gracie. That's a very, very dicey. Yes. That's dice. Now, you asked me that question two years ago with Neiman Gracie as good as he is today. And, and Rory as mentally focused as he was two years ago, and I'd say Rory, you know. But nowadays, it's a tough. But nowadays, it's a toss up because we don't know. We don't know what kind of Rory is going to come out. I'd be honest, I hadn't even in here in studio. I told him, I didn't see him beating Ed Ruth, but he did. Yeah. But he did. You know, incredible. That's a cool thing about our sport. It's so many variables, so many ways to win, you know, you just got to pick what it works for you.

Well, I am thrilled. I'm thrilled you came in here. Can I wait to see this fight. I've been telling everyone, this is the best fight this weekend. It's the two best fighters. It's the only fight that matters, yeah? It's incredible. So I, I normally say, don't wish anyone good luck. I won't do that, but I will say thank you for coming in here. Our friends will guide you out. And I look forward to seeing your fight, man. Thanks for having me. There we go. Nice meeting you. Appreciate the effort. Yes, sir. There we go. Dary in Caldwell, everybody. With many, many tattoos. All right. We are trying to get hold of Mr. Sterling.

Do we want to do some tweets? What do you want to do, Danny Sigurra in the back? Yeah, sure. People calling my phone in the whole time. All right. I am very excited about that. We're going to get Mr. Caldwell versus Horaguchi. If you guys haven't paid attention, there's two of the best fighters in the world. And they're going to be fighting in a rematch from a rise in bout. This is, well, it's everything.

I mean, legitimate claim to being one of the best bantam weights in the world, if not the best, depending on one's perspective. You got Horaguchi, top of his game, Caldwell, top of his game, change in venue, both in terms of the country, both in terms of the fighting surface. It's the real deal, man. The Bansomweight division is hot. Here's how you know a division is hot.

It's not just hot in one organization. It's when you look globally and you're like, damn, there are murderers everywhere. And Bellator's got a hot Bantanweight division. And then you just look around the rest of the world. There's just Bantamweight's coming out of the woodwork killing people. It's the same as the Lightweight Division. Look around the world. What is one reliable division for virtually every organization?

lightweight, because they're just murderers up and down that thing. And that's true no matter where you go. Bantamweight is getting to that level. It's pretty close. All right. Speaking of Bantamwait, let's go to another one now. He had a phenomenal win over the weekend beating Pedro Munoz.

And, well, I think he's your top contender. He joins us now on Skype. The one and only funk masters here, Al Jermaine Sterling. Al Jermaine, how are you feeling, sir? I'm feeling good. Feeling great, man. I feel like I'm on top. of the world.

Ready to conquer. Let me see your hand. Is that a cast? Yeah, it's a little bootleg cast. Something they made at the hospital for me. I guess I, like, tore the ligament on my... I don't know. So I might have to have, like, a small surgery,

even, like, a little pin. So it takes, like, four weeks to heal up. So I don't know. Okay, so if they had to do some kind of title fight soon, I mean, Henry seems super beat up, so I don't think that they would. But I guess what you're saying is you're not going to be out for long

if needed. Yeah, they said it's a small procedure. They said it's probably better if I get it just so I could have the full mobility of my thumb. I mean, after the fight, I didn't really notice it until the adrenaline came down. I was like, starting to bother me, but I don't know.

They said this was more important than the leg. Okay, so let's talk about your performance. Boy, if that's not your best performance ever, it's pretty close. You've got to be feeling great about that. your grade. How do you grade yourself? I think I get an 8 plus. I mean, there were some things I felt I could have done a little bit better. Of course, it's always going to be takeaways like that. There's some opportunities

that I thought I was going to be to capitalize on a little bit more. But Pedro's a tough dude, man. He was able to adjust on the fly also. I think I pitched a shutdown on that first round, and then the second round, he made some adjustments. And then I had to make some adjustments within that second round to steal back that round. So I know he was kind of picking up a little bit the momentum in there. And there's that one body kick he caught me with. And I was like, ah, and I acknowledge it. I let him know it hurt.

I was like, yeah, he got me. You know, I was okay with letting him know. I'm like, you're not going to get me out of it like you did Carraway. I'm not going to curl up in a little fetal position and like a little ball. You know, so it was a great performance, man. I definitely think I show people that I can truly do it all. Now, the two questions. One, was the kick one of those teeps straight up the middle?

it was well not a teep it was a push kick the rear leg kick yeah the rear leg kick yeah the rear leg kick that came up the middle um and i think he threw it while i was coming in to throw a jab from the south boss a jab from the south west side or across from the south coast side and uh it's just the way just the way i think i was circling out and throwing a punch it just got right underneath and just hit me right in the money spot and uh

it hurt but uh good thing we were were able to recover quickly. I did my crunches. Now, you mentioned you had to make some adjustments in the second round. What were those adjustments or what was one of them? What was, what was key that had to be different for you to stay ahead? It was where my elbow placements were in my stance. You know, I was kind of going a little loose with my hands, and I tend to keep my hands low just so I can flow a little bit better. My punches seem to come a little fast when I

throw it when I keep my hands at more of what people will continue. consider unconventional stance, but it works for me. I wouldn't recommend it teaching it to like newcomers or whatnot. But I was able to keep my elbows in a little bit tighter, which allowed me to check the kicks faster. I think there's one of the kicks in the second round. He threw, and I cracked him back with the cross or a one-two. And I felt that's when the momentum starts to shift back into my favor.

And I think he started to realize he had to really set those up and stop just spamming them. Because he was just spamming him at a point, just trying to touch, just trying to touch, just trying to touch. and I had to just tighten up my defense the right way. And I was just worried about the head kick. So I didn't want to keep my hands too low, thing and body, and then it comes over the top with the head kick. So I did good just keeping the elbows right at home and protecting the ribs and then coming back up to be able to return right after he'd do his strikes.

Were you surprised at his chin at all? The old boy can take a shot, can he? Oh, my God. I didn't know what else I had to hit the guy with. I was I was calling to man It's like hey can I get a Can I get a brick?

Because this guy's not going down Pretty amazing All right Yeah man he's a tough dude Let me tell you something that happened to me yesterday What I'm about to tell you is 100% true Al Jambaine I am not in any way exaggerating One of one of the most decorated coaches in MMA

texted me yesterday Wow where are you headed Where are you headed Um, Lou, um, Lumin, Maldis. Luminati's? Some deep dish pizza. Yeah. Aluminatis.

Oh, you're still in Chicago. Yeah, yeah. Still out in Chaitown. All right. Well, look, I'll make this relatively quick. I had a, uh, one of the most decorated coaches in MMA reach out to me and say, for very technical reasons that they believe you're the toughest matchup for Henry Sehudo.

When you hear something like that, How does that make you feel? It makes me feel good, man. I definitely do think so. I think I possess all the talent in the world to compete with Henry. Henry's a tough dude, man. And I think he is the pound-for-pound greatest combat athlete out there to date. I mean, no one's done what that guy has done and been able to accomplish.

But I will say this, when I beat him, when I beat Henry, say, Do-Doo, what does that make me the pound-for-pound king? So that's what I'm looking to get my next title. So got there, beat up Henry. and I think I'm going to be able to take that title. I think I'm too long, too rangery. I can box. I can kick. I can wrestle.

I can do jih Tzu. Where does he win? He's got to try to catch me. So I like my chances in that one. All right, but he called out everybody but you. What do you make about that? Because he wants to be the legend killer. The legend killer.

Oh, my goodness. You want to fight guys who haven't won't want to fight. God knows how long. I don't know if he's scared or I can't call him scared. You know, he's fought some of the baddest man in our weight classes in history. But they're calling out guys who haven't won a fight in three years, guys who are coming out of retirement who are 40. When you got young, hungry competitors that are well deserving of a shot, I think there's something wrong with that. Why is it you believe you have the skills?

Like, what is it about what you offer that no one else offers? Because there's lots of people who are very, very tough competitors, but it's got to be more than that. the funk, baby, I bring the funk. It's a different style. Sometimes people ask me, like, even when I teach my MMA classes at the gym, it's hard for me to teach what I do. It's just very different. It's more of a state of flow, a state of just feel.

You don't just, you can't, like, it's not a robotic thing where it's like one, two, three kick, one, two, three, switch, switch jab, cross. It's not like that. It's completely unorthodox, and everything's about rhythm, tempo, and pace, and it's a different style, man. And when you factor into wrestling, the scrambles, the jihisos, I just think I'm a tough matchup for anybody in this division. Like I said before, Marla got lucky. He got lucky. I won't make that mistake again.

In terms of what Henry's going to do, the UFC's going to let him remain the flyweight champ. So do you think he's going to fight Bantzaway next, or he's going to go back down to. 125 and I guess the question is, are you prepared to wait if you have to? That's a tough question. That is a tough question. I never thought about that. Yeah. I just, for some reason, I always felt he was just going to have to defend at 35 because he won't have to cut as much weight. Right now, I don't think there's a number one, a clear number one contender at 25. I don't think so. Maybe Joseph Benevita's, but I know they fought already. He has a win over Henry so that could possibly happen or Forminga. Oh, those guys are

fighting each other, though, right? Yeah, end of the month, yeah. Okay, yeah, so pending the results of that, I guess it's going to be decided on what's the more intriguing matchup. And hopefully it's me. I think, hopefully they have a boring fight. That's what I'm hoping for. Jigsnogglewood. I'm hoping that I did enough to impress the UFC brass.

Yeah, well, I guess we'll have to see how it goes. One more for you, and I'll let you go get that pizza. I guess the thing I'm thinking about here is your striking style. you came from wrestling, you came from grappling, it's been an ace in the hole for a long time, but this one was almost 100% on the feet, and you've got a really unique style. I'm wondering, like,

how you must feel in nurturing that part of your game to the point where you were able to establish a number one contendership on the back of that, and there's no one else that really strikes like you, except kind of a little bit, John Jones. Yeah, you know, it's funny, people were starting to bring back those comparisons all over again, And it kind of reminded me at the beginning of my career.

And at the beginning of my career, I was very wild style, very uneducated in what I was doing. I was just doing stuff I saw on YouTube, doing stuff I saw John Jones, Anderson Silver Do. And it worked. Dominic Cruz, I copied a lot of stuff from those guys. And then as I got older, I started changing my style to more wrestling and kicking. And then I kind of switch. And now I'm kind of back to striking. But actually, I know what I'm doing now.

that makes it's such a weird evolution the way I've been able to see myself develop just watching the beginning of my UFC career to where I am now it's it's a problem man I think it's a problem for anybody and like I said sometimes I don't even know what I'm looking for it's just whatever is the opening

presents itself I go for it and I'm starting to see these openings and it's starting to feel like wrestling and I think with anything man you got to crawl before you can run and I took my baby steps I took my lumps on the way up, and here I am, man. June 8th.

June 8th was a great day. It was a great night. It certainly was. All right, what's going to go on the pizza? Tell us. Hopefully extra cheese, maybe some chicken, maybe some macaroni. If they have some mac, I don't know. We'll see what they recommend.

I've never done it in Chicago style before, so. Well, I've got terrible news for you. Hopefully it's going to be a good one. It's actually delicious, but it's just not pizza. It's nothing like New York. Don't let anyone else tell you otherwise. That's what everyone's telling me. So I don't know.

I heard there's a lot of dough. So, yeah. Just going to give it a shot, you know? Went in Rome, do what the room is doing. I hear you. Go get that pizza. Hey, thank you so much for your time, Al Jermaine. Congratulations on the win.

Thanks for having me. There you guys. Tune in for the next show. We will. Thank you, Al Jemaine. Appreciate it. There he is. All right.

Getting that pie. Listen, Chicago is a great town. maybe one of America's most underrated towns. It's a phenomenal place. Your pizza is basura. I mean, it tastes fine, but it's not, you know, you need a fork lift to grab a slice. No, thank you.

I'll stick to the Manhattan pizza 10 times out of 10. All right, let's do this now with the time we have remaining. It is time, I believe, for a round of tweets. Let's do that, shall we? Five minutes on the clock. Here we go. Wait, wait, wait. I'm not going to start until you get the clock.

There we go. Hold on. Got to get that timer up. Bop, ba-da-bop-bop. There it is. There's the timer. And there we go. Okay, who do you see as the biggest threat to Valentina Shvchenko if there ever was one?

Influenza is the biggest threat to Valentina Shvchenko. Short of that, not a soul. Next. Luke, there's any particular reason why Eric Albarasine's fighters are having so much success lately. You know, I asked him to come on today's show, and he wasn't available. He's not to me. So I need to dig into the... details on that one a little bit more. Obviously, he has a background at the senior level in wrestling

himself through the Army, so he knows what it takes to compete. But beyond that, I'm not really sure. I need to dig into the details more. Next. Thoughts on Azard signing, the soccer hour. Yeah, like I said, first of all, it's fine. The Yolkich signing, then the Azard signing. Madrid's going to come back. They're going to sell bail for a million dollars or whatever, a gazillion dollars. And I hope they're not going to get Mbapap, probably. But there's some other names. could get in the offseason. And when they do, I'm going to be even more insufferable, you peasants. All right. Next. Is Suhudo actually a better 135 or than a 125er? Similar to how DC is a better heavyweight than a light heavyweight. Don't, that's a great question from our own

Casey Leiden. Don't know the answer. I need to see him compete at 135 a couple of more times because the distance issues in this fight, he was able to overcome them by somebody who was relying on another person to allow distance versus, as I mentioned before, Max Holloway fights a distance because he forces it. I need to see how he handles somebody who is better at forcing distance. So the answer could be yes. D.C., we know because he started heavyweight, then went to light heavyweight, then went back to heavyweight. I just need a bigger body of work to make a more informed judgment. But would I be surprised if he's better at 135? Not necessarily. No. Next. is Tony Ferguson the greatest face rearranger in MMA

he certainly leaves a mark on his opponent's faces there was actually a post you go and look at the opponent's faces so whether it was Anthony Pettis or Kevin Lee or Edson Barbosa or Donald Cowboy Soroni or you know on and on Landovanada their faces were all super jacked up RDA because he just puts a beating on these guys it's not you know just guy's face was probably fine because she took a shin to the dome

but Ferguson just kind of really you know, he just grinds the meat. The original face rearranger was BJ Penn. BJ Penn was the guy who was out there changing faces when it was, you know, Kyle Uno and God, who are some other ones?

He just utterly annihilated. Diego Sanchez was one. Kenny Floreen less so, but he beat him up too. But yeah, there was just a bunch of guys Joe Stevenson when there was like a geyser out of his forehead from the rear naked choke after the elbow. Yeah, but Tony Ferguson has inherited

that mantle. Next. Valentina Shevchenko's confidence is through the roof right now, and she is the only woman that has given Amanda Nunes. Trouble. Could you see them fighting again at 135? Absolutely. The 2021 Abu Dhabi card possibly? Well, I don't want to look that far into the future, but do I think that Shevchenko and Nunes have fought for the last time only if Nunes retires early? If she sticks around long enough, there's not a doubt in my mind they're going to fight a third time. Absolutely. Next. How long will Valentina own 100,000? 125 pounds. Again, unless somebody comes along, like maybe let's see what happens with Macy Barber. She's got two, three years to figure it out. Let's see. But if someone doesn't come along,

just looking at the current crop, the answer is as long as she wants, short of making a huge mental error, injury, or influenza. That is it. Next. How are your sinus is working now after the surgery? Are you still mouth breathing? Would you recommend the surgery to a fellow perpetually clogged nose mouth breather like myself? I feel like it made a slight impression. I won't say it made a dramatic improvement. I still have a lot of problems with my nose that I guess are just not fixed. I had a sinusplasty for folks who don't know what that is. And here's what I would tell you that the recovery is awful. It is awful. And that I got it during the birth of my daughter, well, two days after was very stupid. I do not recommend that to anybody. Look, it's made some improvements, but it's, I think I just got so much damage back there without significant intervention. It's just going to be when it's going to be next. which is more likely a rematch of Tony and Cowboy or Tony getting winner of Habib and Poirier fight. Again, assuming Connor doesn't intervene,

Tony and Cowboy rematch, which by the way is also not going to happen. One more of these. By the way, just so it's clear, that's why they want to do Tony and Cowboy rematch. Not because there's like an unresolved question. Slightly there is, just so Connor can get leeway to fight the winner of Habib and Poirier.

It's got nothing else to do with anything. One more, one more, one more, one more. All right. Should the UFC simply give Valentina a belt every three or four months in order to save a couple of handfuls or so lives? Yeah. Yeah. And here I am saying all this. And now, you know, she may go in there and lose against Chukagin.

I don't see that happening. Chichagin's a fine fighter. She's a good fighter. She's a nice person. You know, you're just dealing with somebody who is utterly beyond that. So, like I said, what do you do when the most qualified contend? for a fight is so far behind that it's a mismatch. I don't even mismatches in like one's better.

A mismatch is that when one is so much better, it ends up resulting in a horrible consequence for the loser. That's what you saw here. Like they just get thoroughly thrashed. All right, big thanks to let's see. By the way, I don't want to forget this. Bellator NYC this weekend, Friday, I believe. Can't wait for that.

Big thanks to Daryngoldwell for coming in here. Congrats to Al Jemaine Sterling. a win over the weekend. Thank you guys. Keep sending those tweets using the hashtag the MMA hour. Keep calling 844-866-2468. 2468. International callers, the MMA hour at Voxmedia.com. And until next time, stay frosty donks.