MMA Fighting - The MMA Hour: Episode 485 (w/ Adam Borics)

Episode Date: June 17, 2019

On this episode of The MMA Hour, Luke Thomas speaks to Adam Borics about his huge knockout win over Aaron Pico at Bellator 222, potentially competing in the Bellator featherweight Grand Prix in the fall, his career, and more. We also take your questions on the latest news in MMA on Sound Off and A Round of Tweets. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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and welcome. My name is Luke Thomas. I am the host of this program. Thank you so much for joining me. I greatly appreciated it. Let's see. Fun show plan today. We're going to recap all the action from Bellator 222, the good, the bad, the ugly, and everything in between to help us do that at 1 o'clock. He was the big winner in the Aaron Pico fight. Adam Borich will be here. Just prior to that, to talk about the news that he is now going to be training with Faraz's a hobby. I found this very interesting. Kevin Lee, UFC lightweight turned welterweight, will be here. Plus, you will be, excuse me, you will be my guest. Not one, two different ways, as always. First, with the tweets, when a round of tweets happens with the hashtag the MMA Hour, keep sending those, please.

I was appreciated when you do. And as well, in particular today, we're going to have a nice long segment on your calls on the soundoff. 844-866-2468. So, and by the way, international Callers, the MMA hour at Foxmedia.com. Okay. Hope everyone had a great weekend. Happy Father's Day, belatedly to everyone. I had my first Father's Day as a father.

Got to tell you, it's pretty fun. At least it was for me, so I want to thank my family for taking care of me. I hope your family took care of you. I hope you guys were thanking all the dads out there. Yeah, let's do some tweets. Let's do a round of them tweets. How about that?

All right. There we go. Rorty has looked fresh in his stand-up, and I didn't realize how nasty his BJJ was until he outgrappled Gracie. He did not outgraple Gracie. My question, though, is that lead leg? How do you think he does in the Lima rematch

and will he find a way to protect that leg? Let me say this one more time. He did well to nullify some of the grappling of Gracie. He did not in any way outgraple him. Let me just be very clear about that. Gracie outgrapled him. Not enough to win the fight, but you're asking who's got better Jiu Jizsou,

Neiman Gracie by a mile. Okay. That lead leg. I don't know. Because if you watch the first fight, Lima gave him tons of problems with it, and it's something that he has had a bit of an issue with since. I suspect Lima's going to get after it, man.

Next. What's your best advice your dad ever gave you? Jesus, you all don't even know who my dad is. How do I explain this one? Don't be a failure. That's been told to me before. Um, yeah, I don't, I mean, my dad's helped me a lot. Don't get me wrong. But in terms of like super solid inspiring, hallmark card advice, he ain't the guy. Next. What exactly does Horaguchi's win mean for Bellator? It's not great for their champions to lose to other champs. Seems like it would devalue them in terms of skill. Also, since Horiguchi is only obligated to defend once per year, what does that mean for 135 pounds? Number one, you might see your first interim title in Belator. So keep that in mind. But what does it do for Belator? Look, Belator took a risk, but don't you want to see that?

them take a risk? By the way, Hora Gucci is still their bellator champ. So in some ways, they get to own the winner, and I'm using the word own here in quotations, no matter what. I actually kind of like that he's been put in that position and that these organizations took their risk. And yeah, like you would rather see Caldwell mature into the talent that he is, but they took a risk and Hortiguchi came out on top. And they still get the benefit of calling him the champ and then him defending. If he doesn't defend him. offend enough. I suppose that's an issue, but I actually think this is a win for all the parties. More so for Risen, yes, and more so for Hortoguchi. But Belator comes out of here with a little bit of,

a little bit to hang their hat on. Next. Do you think Chil Suna will ever be inducted into the UFC Hall of Fame? Depends on the wing. Depends on the wing. He's been around long enough to be part of the pioneer wing, which people don't realize. But I don't know. I don't know. probably they'll find a way to get them in one way or the other. Maybe through like the Anderson Silva fight or some other wing, but I suspect they will. I suspect they will. Next. How marketable do you think Amanda Nunez, Jessica Androge are?

Felt like UFC could have made a good video package covering both for Pride 2019, but they missed the boat on that one. Outside of Brazil, how well do you think UFC can promote them? I don't know. I mean, look, the UFC has some kind of a odd posture towards Romney. on Kadirov and his fighters. They've never answered what they about for that. They've never explained why Kadir was at one of their shows and

was he invited. I don't know if he was or he wasn't or why you're okay with signing these guys who come from a team with a guy related to these issues. That they sell shirts that say, we are all fighters, is a glib response to it. So like, how much do they care? I don't know. Judging by their actions. But to me, selling T-shirts doesn't tell you a whole lot.

Probably could be more with both of them, but probably I think it's a little bit unrealistic to expect either of them to be enormous American stars. So could they do more? Yes, but still have some tempered expectations. Next. Given the questions arising from recent fights in the UFC and Belator, do you think it would be who of either organization

to establish their own in-house development promotion? They kind of already have on the UFC side. The UFC already seems to be trending in this way with the new PFIs and some of the other programming. Yeah, there's this New York Times article where they were like, the UFC's not investing in the future of the sport. I'm like, well, there's plenty of criticisms to make of the UFC. That ain't one of them.

They do a lot to promote the next generation where, by the way, Contender Series starts tomorrow and then tough. And then what they're building in China and Mexico with the Performance Institute's like, yeah, but Belator. Belator is different because Belator is situated to sign people who would ordinarily be competing on the regional scene and then give them that kind of treatment. But again, I don't think they're best situated for that either. Next.

With all the talk about whether Zhang deserves a title shot or not, Are people overlooking the actual matchup? I don't really expect Jessica to come home with the belt. Yeah, she's competitive. She's competitive. The question is just whether she's the most deserving of the opportunity. But is Zhang, Wiley Zhang, actually competitive? Yes, yes, she is.

One more. One more. One more. And then we have to get to our next guest. How do you think Luke Rockhold and Chris Wydenman will do it light heavyweight and do you think there will be a threat to Jones? I think they'll be better at light heavyweight. Luke Rockle probably more so, but I don't know who's a threat to Jones, to be honest with you. Okay.

Do we have our guest? What's the deal, Mr. Segorah? All right, we're still trying to get them. All right, we're still trying to find out what's going on here. You know what? In the meantime. The old Coke zero. Delicioso.

Yeah, I actually spoke to, I think I said this with the MMA beat. I actually spoke to, God, I cannot remember names today. Ray Longo, Jesus. And Ray was definitely in favor of Chris going to 205 for if or no other reason on the weight cutting. but I don't want to speak for him, but I detected a feeling that he kind of thought that Chris was very competitive at 185. And that maybe he'll be competitive at 205 too,

but that like absent some benefit from the weight cut, there wasn't a ton of other reason to necessarily do it. That might be true. But I also feel like part of changing weight classes is a bit of a branding opportunity. Right? Where, how do I explain it? it's a new lease on life. It's good for headlines.

You can get the right match. Good at generating attention. If you're doing it on short notice, for example, you can just leap into the rankings, a very high level. So, like, there's just a lot of reasons why it may make some sense. By the way, also may not be everything that they needed to be.

Like, this idea that it's going to solve all the problems, it might, it might, might not to, right? Like, you just don't, well, we'll have to see. I just think that Luke Rockhold, I have a little bit more sense that the, that the 205 move will be beneficial. Because I think he suffered more from the weight cuts than Chris Wyden did. I don't know that for a fact, but that's my read on things. My read is that Rockhold, like, uniquely suffered. And then as a consequence, he's benefiting more by the change, by the adjustment.

So there you go. What's the word, Danny? All right, they're trying to get them. Don't know what that's all about. Lying that one up a few days ago. We'll see. We'll see. Okay.

All right, well, I have to tap dance here, I suppose, right? That's the whole idea. Hope everyone had a good father's day. I will say, I watched, I thought that the Beltor show, I don't know why they needed to put six fights on the main card, but I actually thought it was pretty good. I really liked it.

I, uh, I like the desk. that they use. I just don't know they need to go to the desk every time. I would kind of like to see it's like intermittently used as opposed to like every single fight.

You go back to the desk. But I thought that the pace was pretty good. Like I started at 10. I think they were done 1230 or maybe it was closer to 1. Still, it wasn't doing it. The pace was not terrible. And you're like, well, it shouldn't be.

It was on DeZone. But some of their paramount stuff has been like, just takes forever. So I am going to be curious to see what happens with Chale, where he's commentating the show out in London. And he had that big thing on his face. Now, I suppose in a week, it'll be much, much lower. But yeah, I didn't see that one coming to retirement. That was kind of interesting. Anyway, I thought the show, the Wanner Triletto look good, the Kiojuriguchi fight against Daryon Caldwell. I thought I was so worried

the judges were going to botch that man. I thought for sure they were going to get that wrong. And they didn't. They didn't. So I was very very. happy about that. And I like Daring. We had him in studio. Like, if it was a wrestling match, he won, right? He out-wrestled him. Same thing with Pico. Pico out-wrestled Borch. But I don't think he got, I don't think he got out of that what he thought he was putting in. And I explained to folks, like, how can these wrestlers think that this is, you know, this is a way to fight? Well, the answer is pretty simple. Like, think about all the effort Caldwell put in to control somebody. Dude, it's hard. the trick is you got to control somebody on route to advancement or on route to punishment.

So in their minds, they're like, I got the takedown. He couldn't get back up for long periods of time, if at all, until the bell rang, prevented anything, any offense from him or, you know, meaningful offense in that time. Why am I not winning? And the answer is, okay, the takedown's the start of something. Like, what is the practical effect of the takedown? Okay, you got him down. All right?

That's fine. you changed where the fight was going. That's good. Maybe the takedown itself was a nice hard slam. In this case, no, but okay, I'm thinking about those things. Like, what's the practical effect? The practical effect is you're able to get a person to the mat slash cage and you're able to hold them there.

But beyond that, there wasn't a lot of, again, the first round, he had the gift wrap and then the elbow. But after that, there just wasn't a whole lot to it. So they're measuring it by control and effort and a degree of difficulty. And by all those measurements, what Daryon Caldwell did was impressive. The problem is, in a fight,

it's just a really different consideration than a wrestling match. Going back to the Pico thing, it's like you get two, you get two for the takedown, now what? Right? It just puts you in an odd position. So that's what it was.

The Pico thing broke my heart a little bit. Obviously, everyone's kind of talked that one to death. The Lareda fight against Larkin-Dash. I don't have much to say other than that's about what someone should look like when they're 2 and 0 on the way to something else. It was fine. Dylan Danis against Max Humphrey. Dylan looked good. Again, at 2 and 0, I don't have a whole lot to say about it.

He's fighting terribly outmatched opposition, which for now is fine. I'll get an update here. All right. Well, I don't know how about to Kevin Lee. I guess we're going to bump up the Borich interview. That's fun. That's fun. Okay, well, let's see what happened

but old Adam Borich has to say. I'll be curious to hear more about this. He looked good, man. It could look good. You know, the take the wrestling, okay, you can't compete with the guy who's had a huge background in wrestling, but everything else,

he was very competitive, as you guys saw. Detected openings and took him. How old is this kid, by the way? He's young, right? M.MA. He is. Let's see. His nickname is the kid for crying out loud.

25. 25. He's got 13 wins. Good Lord. That is an impressive amount of work that he has put into this already. Yeah, so we'll get him here in just a minute. Should be good to go. They're firing him up.

How are we going to get him on sell? I think we're going to get him on sell. Yeah. Sorry about this, folks. But this is what happens in live programming. Shit just falls apart. It just falls apart. I mean, this show has aged me.

in ways. I can't even explain. All right, let's go to him now. This guy had the, maybe the win of the whole weekend, certainly one of the best ones. Phenomenal performance against Aaron Pico, certainly grabbed my attention. Let's go to him now. He's on the phone, the one and only Adam, how are you? Hey, man, I'm good. You? I'm doing quite well. Well, first of all, congratulations on the win. Let me just ask you this. Did that go about like you thought it Yeah. Okay. What were you expecting?

Sorry, I didn't have you. What were you expecting? I thought everybody, I'm a finisher and I finished him, so it was my plan. No, no. From Aaron Pico, what were you expecting from him? No. I know he would try to wrestle with me. because, you know, he's a really good wrestler.

He's a world champion. So I know it. And, you know, he's a bit shorter than me. And maybe it was a good plan. But everybody just thought I am good on striking, but I am good on the ground. I was prepared for that, you know. I know it.

He will take two. take me down, but I was prepared for that. How physically strong was Aaron Pico? You know, I can tell you. I think I am one of the

strongest guy in 145 in the world, but he was strong, he was tough. When we were on the ground, I felt I am stronger. Not done too much, but a little bit I was stronger. And then when he took me down, I just saved my energy.

Because I hurt him. He was breathing so hard and he was squeezing. My legs are crazy. And I know he can be like this like three minutes, three rounds. Okay. So let's talk about the flying knee at the end. Now, you've done that before. It's something you're very good at.

Why did you throw it? What did you see that made you decide, okay, I'm going to throw the flying knee? You know, in the second ride, I just feel like, okay, just save my energy. And when I get up, I will throw some kicks. And then he tried to take me down, I will throw the flying knee. Maybe, I don't know, you saw not my last flying knee in Hungary in Belator. the last year, it was the same. So I really like that, you know,

when against the wrestlers, the flying me, I just, I have been just waiting for the moment when, you know, he was, shoot me again. Yeah, you did it in your fight against Teodor Nikolov, I believe, right? A Beltor 196? Right, right, right. Right, right, right. All right, so the, you had said, I believe, after the fight,

that you think he might be better at 135 pounds. Why is that? Because I think he's a little bit short and maybe he's in 135 he can beat everybody because he was really, really strong and I think maybe he can cut more.

Like, you know, I usually cut like 20 pounds and maybe he didn't do that. Or maybe we just cut, I don't know, maybe 15 or 10 pounds. When he accepted the fight, when they made it, right? Were you thinking that he was, that people were not taking you seriously, not taking you seriously enough?

Yeah, I think so that. You know, maybe everybody was a little bit over, underrated me. And I was a little bit upset because everybody was just talking about him. And everybody was just like, oh, people will finish. Adam like this and like this. So, yeah, but it's okay. I know it's already. And my team, we know it.

I'm going to finish him. Now, you ended up with Henry Hooft, right? Yeah, right, right, right. How did that happen? How did that happen? It was crazy story. 2017, my friend called me, hey, I will fly to Florida in the next week.

And he said, hey, come with me. And I said, oh, I didn't have enough money. And that time, I had a contract with a Euro FC. And I said, like, oh, I don't want to be, I don't want to go there. Because, you know, usually just somebody going to from Europe to train in our, in our States. usually you can train only with just an amateur guy the first time. And after, I don't know, my friends in the U.S. help me, you know, so they make it, I could train at Henry.

And after the, like with a professional team. And so I spent three weeks over there and they said, hey, man, you have to come back and became a world champion. And after I met with my managers. So it was the first time when we meet in the U.S., and they said they will help me. So with these two managers, I can be here like now. Hmm.

You understand me, sorry. Yeah, no, your English is great. Don't worry about it. It's interesting. So since you've been with them, How much better have you gotten? Oh, man. It's like, I don't know, 100%, I don't know.

It's like double or triple. I improved a lot. So I was like just a simple striker, but I wasn't good in the MMA. So I mean, my MMA skills is ready for everybody because I train with the best in the world, in the Harnax 365, with the best coaches in the world, Greg Jones, Cummy Barz, and he's hairy-hoofed. So I can improve every day, and still, I can improve every day.

So when I will go back to Florida, I will just keep doing the same shit. You know what I noticed in the fight? We had just talked about it on the show. Aaron has very good takedowns, but once he got you down, your ability to get back up to resist control. It was very good, really good. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I was so relaxed that, you know, I just didn't want to lose my position, like, you know, just leave full, because if I just leave down, he can use some grandampant. And I was like, okay, just be on the top, like, like, you know, don't lose the risk control.

everything, just keep relaxing and get up just slowly. And I wasn't, I didn't want to go like crazy scramble, lose my whole energy. I was just so calm and I just do the get up. Well, you did. It was amazing. What is, how popular is Ebime in Hungary? It's, it's not too much. But now, it's crazy. You know, I arrived just yesterday in Hungary. Damn, everything is crazy now. Everybody's just calling me and text me. Everybody wants interview with me. How did you get into...

Go ahead, go ahead. Yeah? Go ahead. So when I arrived in an airport, there was a lot of fans and the TV. And I was like, holy shit, what happened here? So are you, like, how popular are you in Hungary now? It's getting better now.

They are very proud of me, and I didn't know it. It's just every day just getting better. I see my social media is like crazy now. Like every day is just more, more followers, a lot of text, message, likes, shares, everything. I think now the anime is most popular. No, no, no, it's more popular than before. Did your family... I wanted to change the Hungary and MMA.

I wanted to put the Hungarian MMA on the world. Are you trying to be like the... You know how Gustafson is for Sweden or McGregor is for Ireland? Are you trying to do that for Hungary? Yeah, I would like to do that. By the way, did you... Just not, not just, you know, just not that way. Like, I don't want to use trash talk like Conor.

And I want to be... I want to stay just like, you know, who I am, just very humble and just, I can say you, I am, I think I am the most hard worker on the planet. I train every day like who is our training camp. So where do you train back in Hungary? It's crazy everywhere. The most time I did alone. because here is not too much MMA club, maybe in the capital one or two, but it's like very

amateur now, you know, not like a professional. When I leave at home, usually in the morning session, but like just running, lifting, back work and at the night I went to some Thai boxing and MMA and Campo and some wrestling but just a Greek Roman you know in Hungary is the Greek or Roman is most popular than the freestyle wrestling so and it was it was so hard to find the place where I can train like a professional so that's why I was so happy when I I moved moved in Florida and I was like, holy shit, I can train like a professional fighter now. How different is Florida from Hungary?

Oh, it's much different. You know, I am from a village where 2,000 people live, and in Florida it's the other world. So it's unbelievable. It's crazy. A lot of times I miss my country, but, you know, I have a goal. So I have to work for that. Now, does your family watch you compete? How does that work?

They watch, you know, they woke up at 2, 2.m. or 3. You know, in Hungary time, it was like 2 p.m. maybe or 3. But not just my family. It's a lot of people who watch that. Does your family, like, I mean, because here's the thing, if you're in the United States, fighting is an unusual career, but people do it.

But from Hungary, it must be very unusual. And, you know, my father was, like, very excited because if I got some injury or something, he can do nothing, you know. And he was very scared a little bit, but I thought him,

I would be good and don't worry about me. Okay, so did Belize, Toletor talk to you about what they might want next from you? Not yet, not yet. But I hope so I will be in the tournament. I think I deserve. You want to be in the featherweight tournament? Right, right, right, right.

Would you take a spot as an alternate? Say again. Let's say that they can't put you in the tournament for some reason. But they can say, okay, Adam, If someone else gets injured, you can step in. Is that okay? Oh, I know. I want to know it before, you know.

So I want to know it like two or three months before. I want to prepare like 100%. So I think I deserve that they have to tell me like I need a time like prepare like a good camp because it's going to be maybe every five runs or something like this. besides Patricio Pitbull, who is the featherweight champ, and maybe even including him, do you consider your, like, where do you think you belong among the best featherweights in Bellator?

I don't know. I think, you know, I never thinking about who will be my next opponent, maybe he's good for me or not. I am always focused on my next opponent, and I just prepare I will beat him. So we have a lot of good fighters in my division. Like, I mean, like E.G. McKee, Pat Kuhren, Patrys, Petrude, and a lot of more guys. But I think, so nobody works harder than me.

So I will be confident. Let me ask you a couple more questions about Eric. if I can for just a second. Some people here are saying, oh, his career will never recover. It's done. Do you believe that?

I don't think so, man. He's such a good guy and very talented, very technical, you know, and people forget, you know, but he was a wrestling world champion. And not too many people can say that. about himself.

And I really respect that. And he has a boxing golden glass. And he looks very nice guy. And I just read about him. You know, he's a hard worker too. And he's so motivation. And I was so sorry him after the fight because, you know, he never talked shit about me.

And I feel like that. I mean, just he needed some rest, and maybe the hype was too much for him, you know, because he got like crazy hype. Did you talk to him? You know, pressure. Maybe he was too young for the pressure. Maybe. Did you talk to him backstage after the fight?

I tried, but he was, he wasn't able to. But I just said him, hey, you will be come back. And you are a good fighter. I said just after the fight, like this. Yeah. Well, I text him, I text him on an Instagram, Hey, bro. I wish you were a good fighter. It was a pleasure to share the cage.

Well, Adam, and by the way, can you pronounce your last name for us? Is it Boric? Yeah, you say well. Boric. You said it's like a Hungarian. All right, I'm an honorary Hungarian for the day. How about that? that. Congratulations, Adam.

Phenomenal win. You should be very proud and enjoy time at home. I guess you'll be back in Florida before no time. Yeah, I will come back in July 18. Yeah. All right, very good. Congratulations. Thank you for your time, Adam. Thank you so much. There you guys. Adam, Adam Borch, all the way from, I guess, Budapest or wherever the hell in Hungary he is. All right, Danny, what's the deal with Mr. Lee? All right, so let's do this. So let's do this. They're trying to, yeah, they're trying to wrangle him.

I don't know where he is. So for the time being, if we can't get him, maybe we can. Fingers crossed, knock on wood. Let's go to the sound off now. All right. Let's go to my friend Danny here. There he is.

Begote himself. Are you, sir? I'm here. Reasonably not hung over today? No, I'm fine. All right, very good. I actually had a good sleep last night. I did too.

Whenever I come up to New York, my wife takes the full shift of the kid. And my kid is seven weeks old Saturday. Last three nights has slept through the night, bro. Can you believe it? I know the doctors are like, wake them up so they can eat every three hours, bro. No, no.

She'll just get an extra few ounces on all the other meals. I'm not doing that. That's good. Yeah. So if there's any doctor watching, go F yourself. I'm not fixing it. But you had a good weekend, yes? Yeah, good weekend.

Just super busy, obviously. covering Belator 222. Let me ask you. I thought that the pacing was pretty good. I thought it was a great event. Again, I saw it in... Oh, you were there? Yeah, I was there.

Okay, okay, so it's different for you. Yeah, I didn't see it through the zone. But I thought the fights themselves were really good. The quality was pretty good. The crowd seemed into it. It was a good night for Beltoe. All right, very good. So let's do this.

How were the calls, my friend? Very good. Calls were very good. All right, I'm excited to hear it. So why don't you just take it away? You lead the ship here, Maestro. All right, let's do it. Well, a lot of storylines coming out of Beltaud 222,

but I think the following is the biggest. You tell me. Lukey, Jake from Oregon, calling on a somber matter. The great chale piece on and retires, undefeated, holder of multiple titles and multiple weight classes, admired across not just our nation but the world. What's your thoughts on it?

Will MMA as a sport recover? And if so, how long will it take? Thanks, man. Bye. Yeah. The greatest of all time. Yes, certainly. He is...

Pretty top Tito Ortiz. Yes. What is Chale's legacy? Boy, it's a complicated one. Very... He is something of an overachiever. He is a guy. I think the way I think about him, Danny, I don't know about you.

I think of him as somebody who... Maximized every opportunity imaginable with every tool in the tool shed, whether that was timing, whether that was his outright ability, whether that was his ability to sell a fight and promote and become a certain kind of character. I think you have to include the fact that also through performance and dancing drugs. So some of these are by illicit. Some of these are by illicit means.

But either way, in the end, he ended up being incredibly adored, although for a time he was not. I remember a time in M.MA when he was very polarizing, but not so much the case anymore. But to me, that's who he is. He is a guy that tried to find every rung on the ladder to get to the top. And I don't think he got quite as far as he wanted to. But all you can ever ask is that somebody just rings the sponge dry. And he did. Yeah. I think his legacy is that you can be a very, very successful fighter, one of the most successful fighters in MMA without earning a title, without earning a world title. That's interesting. I think he... That's cold comfort for them, though.

He's been the main event of every card he's fought in for the last, you know, or at least, you know, for this... Top two, yeah, or at least co-main event, but definitely, like, one of the bigger fights on the card. He always fought the best. If you just go down his resume, it's ridiculous the competition that he fought. He never got to step down in competition, never refused to fight. And, you know, he became a star in the... sport. And I think, you know, he did all that without ever holding a title. And I think that's important. I think, you know, your brand, the way you present yourself, the way you care

yourself, it can take you pretty far in this sport. You don't necessarily need the title to be successful. You know, people always talk about Vitor as the poster child for TRT and then what subsequently happened. Here's my theory on this, because this is true. And I'm not going to go on some rants. Just hear me out for a second. I'm just trying to make an honest point. The entire history of anti-doping is tied to media backlash and hysteria in terms of the growth of organizations and the development of ideas. So like WADA came out when there was a pushback. All kinds of international organizations were created when the media piled on some kind of scandal. Anyway, TRT was our scandal. And it was when there was pushback to it that you had to see decided to go with USADA.

A big part of that is what Sondon did, where these guys were like, I need this to control. to compete. I need this to live. I need this for health. And, you know, let's be honest, everyone was kind of wink, wink, wink, nudge. They didn't really need it, but they were claiming that they needed it. Anyway, a big part of the reason why we have you Sada, it's not strictly, of course, Sondon's issue. There was all kinds of guys using it. But I would actually argue he was a pretty big reason in terms of media visibility for why the media turned on it. And then we now have our current situation. Yeah. He was also one of the very few people that have managed to turn their career around from that type of situation and deal with with with you know the backlash from

the media backlash from the fans because you know when was the last time i mean when was the last time you like these kind of things got brought up as far as like you know failing drug tests and whatnot in his career like i feel like that kind of got put in the in let me tell you something every other mma fighter who's failed a drug test virtually and i could name them they get real bitter when you bring it up jail was open and honest about it and i'm I think the fans are like, okay, we forgive you. There's a bunch of other gibronies right now who I could name. I've mentioned it before about failing drug tests.

And then I've had a couple of them confront me about it. I'm like, what do you want me to do? You want me to not mention the fact that there's a fact of your existence that you feel a drug. I'm as sympathetic as anybody about you failing a drug test. And you want to get in my girl about it? Okay. Cheo was so upfront about it is that you didn't even need to ask him about it.

He'd bring it up himself, you know, and he was always very honest as far as, you know, that matter went. And yeah, I feel like, you know, it's part of why it never got really brought up again because he answered all the questions.

You know, it's how I've never... Once you do that, then what else is there to, you know, bring up? The last thing I'll say about this, I would love to know

what Anderson Silva and John Jones think about them. Yeah. I would love to know. Not that their version is the correct version or that our version is the correct version, but I would like to hear theirs.

Because the MMA media is kind of like, oh, Uncle Chale, Elder Statesman, that's fine. I don't really have a problem with it, but, They might have a different one. I don't know.

I'd like to hear it. Yeah. I also wonder how much success, you know, is attributed to the backlash because, like, John Jones is a champion right now. Let's say Chil Sunnan would have been destroying everybody and just ruled over Belator. I wonder if these things would have came up again. Or is it because he had a couple setbacks and maybe people kind of, I don't know, discarded. I just remember when he got fired from Fox Sports when all the tests came back positive.

And to look at him now, it's like what an incredible image rehabilitation. He's a ESPN. It's unbelievable. So, all right, there you go. All right, let's talk about one of the major title fights that went down at Belleshoe, 222. This is Joe out of South Florida. Regarding Lori McDonald, do we think that the fight against John Fitch, he was just having a bad mental night, bad camp? Because he looks pretty good against the immigration.

What are your thoughts? Let me know, guys. You go first, Danny. You know, I think you were, you were a very skeptic of Rory MacDonald entering this fight. You're very skeptical of where he was at mentally, because I still am, by the way. Yeah, but I mean, me watching that fight, that looked like a world-class fighter out there. And even Gracie, undefeated, the dude's no joke. And it was one thing if, you know, Roy McDonald managed to stuff his takedowns and then it was just a stand-up battle and he won there.

You go, okay, well, we know that Gracie, although a very complete fighter, that's not where he shines best. but Gracie took him to the ground, mounted him at one point, and Roy was able to fight that off. He got dragged into the deep waters. He got dragged into literally the worst position you can be with a Gracie. That is mounted.

And he survived. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think he did have his back at one point. Yeah. Did he have multiple times? I can't remember. I think at one point he did, yeah.

And he was able to fight off. And look, he's not the same Roy McDonald in the sense of, like, he's this angry guy that's out there to, you know, sort of like this beast, but the one we have now is still pretty darn good, man. World-class fighter. And I don't think he needs the rage to win, just so everyone knows.

Like, asked to make a pick, I picked him. It wasn't like I thought he wasn't going to win. Yeah. I don't think he needs the rage to be as good as he can be. Let me see how that goes against Douglas Lima the second time. Yeah. That's going to be the true test. So I'll say this.

I'll say this. You're right. Against most opposition, I'll dial back a little bit of my skepticism because he definitely looked like a guy in command, didn't panic. Worked. You could see him working through solution.

Wanted to win. Yep. Wanting to win. All great signs. But there wasn't a lot of physical damage that he took. And that's been the one thing I've been wondering about in the Bussasi fight, and more in particular, the Stephen Thompson. And then really, the Lawler fight.

What happens if Douglas Lima puts it on him, physically puts it on him? Yeah. Will you then have the will to continue back? The answer is, listen to what I'm saying. I am not saying no. but I feel like I need to see it before I believe it. So you're saying no. No.

I'm saying I don't know. What's wrong with saying? I don't know. I'm kidding. I'm just kidding. I don't know. I don't know what's going to happen. We don't know.

We don't know. That's the reality. Because Lima's got, let me ask you this. You watched the first Lima a McDonald fight. I did. Yeah. Close.

But I thought you could make a case for Lima, but I thought Rory won. Yeah. Yeah. But Lima put it on him a little bit there. Yeah. I mean, going into that, you know, final round, it was kind of opened the air a little bit.

And what was the key about that? He had to dig deep, Rory did. And he did. Credit to him. But I think Lima's gotten better since then. He has. So now it's an interesting question. So now it's an interesting question.

Very interesting, yeah. I guess we'll wait and see what happens. But nonetheless, I do think this is a hurdle that he passed. I feel like... Sure. Yes, I agree with that. I'm a lot more confident in him entering a fight now than before. He's not frail. And he's not fragile.

He's tough as nails and smart and still obviously very good. I just want to see what happens when somebody physically puts it on him. Can he rally like he did in other occasions? That's what I want to see. That's it. We'll find out. He looked good. You're right.

Yeah. All right. Let's talk about the other title fight that went down on that card. Hey, Luke. Hey, Danny. Hope you're doing well. My name is Nick. I'm recording this in Gothenburg, Sweden.

Big fan of the show. And I just want to know your opinion on two statements regarding the Bellator fight between Kiuji Horiguchi and... Aryan Caldwell. I couldn't help to think that it wasn't so much Uriuchi who won the fight, even though I feel he's the rightful winner. It was more Caldwell who lost the fight.

I felt he was doing quite well on the feet and just holding Horeguchi down didn't really do him any favors. Is that fair to say or am I seeing this the wrong way? And the second statement is does this win make Horeguchi the greatest Japanese fighter of

all time. Love to hear an answer to those two statements. Have a great day, guys. Bye. I feel like this guy works at NPR or something. That voice, man. Coming to you live from our WAMU 885 stations. Yeah. I would say, okay, second question, he's pretty clearly the best Japanese fighter of all time. Now, I don't think he's the most important or celebrated. That would clearly belong to... He's got two belts. Right. So that would clearly... Well, yeah, but I'm saying, like, like how do you weigh a Hita Hiko Yoshida, a gold medalist from judo, like these incredibly important

people who also fought in pride, or Kuzhi Sakaraba who, you know, was part of the Kakutogi boom and all that kind of stuff. Like there's a lot of different pieces there. I mean Sakuraba was a superstar. Kid Yamamoto was a superstar. For people who don't know, imagine Hulk Hogan in his prime in terms of popularity. And imagine

that dude also fought MMA. That's what Kuzushi Sakaraba is. We're not talking Greatest where those kind of things are... Correct. We're talking about best Japanese. He's the best. Yeah, he's the best. Yeah, I think so. I mean, dude, think about it.

For a time, you had... He still got plenty of life left. Dude, I mean, are you kidding me? These guys at American top team, they're like, you don't even understand how good this guy's. Dude, he's fast and he's smart. He makes quick. Like, it's one thing to be physically quick,

and it's another one to make quick decisions that your body can act on. He's clever. Clever. Clever. Did he look tired in the fifth round? Even a little bit? Nothing. And I think it's big that he's coming up from Flightway

because there was a clear size advantage between him and and Darren Caldwell. And I feel like that's, you know, not having to kill his body to 135 definitely attributes to his cardio. Yeah, I agree with that, certainly. At any event, so he's definitely the best one. In terms of like Caldwell losing the fight, yeah, man, like I talked about it.

I wonder how you felt like I think what Caldwell was telling himself was, well, Kyoji's not doing anything while I'm down there and I'm the one to put him there. Yeah. So in the end, that has to count for something. but practically it just counts it does count for something. Just not enough. Just not enough.

And honestly, I'm going to say it's about Daryne Caldwell. I really like the guy. If you ever watched him wrestle in college, he was just a phenom. I'm not seeing enough development in his game, man. I need to see another step up in the striking. I need to see another step up in the guard passing

and in the ground and pound. Ground and pound, just not enough. Yeah. Yeah, it was, that was a weird fight. I was watching it. I was also, you know, tweeting,

and I was doing a few other things for work. So I wasn't catching, you know, I wasn't just solely focused on the fight. And I think I tweeted something from the MA fighting account. Like, oh, I think Horiguchi needs a finish here entering this last round. Did you get torched? Oh, yeah, 100%. Okay. But, you know, looking back now, like, it was clear who was in control.

Caldwell was dictating where the fight was at. But Horiguchi was the one that was always an attack. And I think ultimately that's what won him the fight. And yeah, I think with Caldwell, he was in positions to win the fight. He just, for example, just stood there and, I mean, not stood there, but just kind of just controlled them and held them there and just took elbows and punches. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I think, you know, some things get interesting as far as like the grappling, like, sure.

But like the ground and pound was there. I don't know why he just didn't activate it. It'd be a good question to ask. It's hard to control and to throw at the same time. It takes a master to do it. But I mean, he had him pinned. Like his legs were pinned. I felt like he was in a pretty good position.

If his back is up against the fence, it's going to be hard to do. Yeah. That's going to be very hard to at least meaningful ground and pound. But watching that fight, weren't you glad a little bit? And I'm not saying I'm glad that they're in loss, but I'm glad that the judges saw the fight the way they saw it. Oh, for sure. Because it says something about sort of the development,

the sport and the way we're analyzing it because it was clear that Horiguchi was the one trying to do the most damage and doing the most damage in that fight. Yeah, I mean, look, I was tweeting before like, oh, these judges are going to mess this up because I just knew that they were. And they didn't. And I was like, and Douglas Crosby was one of the judges, I was like, oh, Douglas is about to give us the old okie-doke here, but he didn't. So in the end, you're right, but I still believe, I don't know if you agree with this, but maybe you do or you don't. If that fight had been judged under one or pride rules where the fight is judged as a whole, Kyoji would have been the easy winner.

I sweated it because of the 10-9 must system. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And the top control, you know, because it usually means a lot for some judges. North American ones. Yeah. All right. Well, let's discuss Aaron Picos, loss against Adam Borich. That was a weird one, man. Hey, Luke and Danny. This is Anna from Queens.

There were a lot of awesome Bellator fights Friday night, but I have to ask about Aaron Pico. Scott Coker said he's not giving up on Pico. I was just wondering what you think is actually next for him. All right. Thanks, guys. Love the show. Bye. They better give him somebody. They pulled off a bump. fights. They better give him

somebody he can absolutely demolish. Like, Luke, that's a setup. That's called building talent. That's how folks, that is how the sausage is made. You take somebody who's got some promise and you give him somebody who probably doesn't. Adam Borge

clearly has promise. They were giving him a guy from a team from an elite camp. Who made that call? Who made that call? I cannot believe they agreed to that. Yeah. This And I asked him that. I asked him, I'm like, do you not want to be babied into this career?

Like, why are you taking all these tough fights? And NERN Pico gave me an interesting answer that I kind of wasn't expecting. He's like, yo, it's, you know, talk to the matchmakers, talk to the matchmakers. But then he went on to say, like, look, I know that I know for fact they're offering these type of fights to people my experience level. And they're not taking it. They offer those fights with me against, you know, very experienced people. And they're not even taking it. So, like, what makes you think a guy that's, like, you know,

one and two or two and three or whatever is going to take a fight with me? And I think that brings up an interesting point. But there's got to be a way, man. There's got to be a way to get these people to fight him. There's a guy on the regional scene. I mean, look, Dylan Dennis is a really good fighter in the sense of, like, his jiu-jitsu background. Like, you know he's super legit as far as that goes. And he's getting fights.

Yeah. Here's the deal. I know there's two different fighters. They don't want to fight him dot, dot, dot, dot at a certain price. Now, maybe you don't want to overpay. I do not believe for a second that they can't find the right talent to fight him even for a moderate price.

I just, I'm sorry. I know, I'm sure, listen, I am not saying people don't turn him down. I don't believe you. You ever seen that, the GIF with Will Ferrell? I don't believe you. That's me. I don't believe you.

I don't believe that. I'm not saying that Aaron's not telling the truth. He probably is. Again, people I'm certain are turning down fights. That's not a reason to give him Adam Borich. Yeah. Because look at the alternative. This is better.

This is what you wanted. A guy who has all the ability in the world and is sitting at four and three. This is the optimal outcome. Clearly, clearly it's not. It's a very frustrating thing to watch because if you look at any fighter that's, you know, six, seven fights into her career,

there's a clear difference between Aaron Pico and somebody that has that many fights. Aaron Pico is really, really good. You just watch any of his fights, even in defeats. Like he's doing some things that a lot of people that would have his record wouldn't be able to do. It's just he's doing it again, guys that are so experienced.

Like what Adam Borich did that flying knee, a guy that's five fights in is not going to be able to do that. You know what I'm saying? So you're exposing Aaron Pico to things that he's never seen before, and he's frankly not ready for, not because he's not good, because he's inexperienced. So he should be fighting guys that are, you know, close to his record. And it's frustrating because most of the comments that I see online

is just like, nah, he's overrated, media hyped him up. He's got no chin. You know, he's not what you thought, you know. Media did hype him up. Yeah, of course, but for a reason, I mean, look at his record. Look at what he did to Leandro Igo, you know what I'm saying? But he clearly needs a step down in competition. I got to tell you the thing that people keep doing like, oh, he's got no chin as the explanation.

You take that shot. Dude, these guys take bombs and then the reaction is that they can't take a shot. Yeah, not that one. Yes. A flying knee, sure. Yes, you know, like. Yes, they can't take a moab straight to the jaw. Yes, you're right.

They cannot. Are you kidding? He didn't survive a flying knee? Like, what's wrong with you? It's like, dude, like, this is not... And then, remember they said, the same thing with Sage. And then it turns out Sage

had his whole shit broken. And they were like, oh, right. Like, maybe that's not there. Yeah. It was kind of a hard of punch. Yeah. Even I went back and I watched, just, I watched the Corallus fight

just to make sure. Dude, he was standing there trading and Corallus was going to the right side and Pico wasn't addressing it at all. I don't even think notice it was coming. If you take a shot that you don't see coming, it's going to hurt in a really bad way. Yeah.

Am I saying he's got the world's best chin, maybe not that necessarily. But like... By no means a weak chin. Right, yeah. But is this the reason why he's losing because he just can't take any... I've seen guys who can't take punishment.

It's very different. It's very different. I don't mean to besmirch it, but one of the guys who was like this was a guy by the name of Jonathan Goulet. Jonathan Goulet was a French Canadian UFC fighter for a time. Very talented... Yeah, very talented martial artist. The ability to take a shot was not one of his better things. And he, no, yes. Is he No Gera?

Is Aaron Pico no Gera? Okay, he's not Nogera. But this idea, like, well, he just can't get it right. Again, I don't believe you. I don't believe you. Yeah. Yeah, it's a very frustrating situation. I would like to see him take some time off.

Stay at Jackson and Winks. Because I did see a difference in game planning. I feel like strategy-wise, he came in there. He was fighting a lot smarter. Still, there's another level to this. But yeah, yeah. The metagame thing, where he's just doing the same thing over and over again. He needs to, like, make people react and think and get confused.

You know who's really good at that? that, Corey Sandhagen. Corey Sandhagen is extremely good about making you look this way and the shot comes this way. He's very, very gifted at that. Yeah, for sure. Well, let's talk about his opponent. I feel like most of the talk leaving that matchup was about Aaron Pico, but

let's not forget the winner. The guy who we just had on the show. Hi, this is Mark Bollabash calling from Budapest. Bellator 222 saw Aaron Pico match up against Adam Borich with a lead-up that shunned the Hungarian almost completely. And actually Aaron Pico as well. what's your take on Borich's ability and about the height he can ascend to in his division? Was his winner fluke or how you thought it would go?

Thanks again for doing a great job and come visit Budapest someday. Yeah, for sure. Buy me a ticket. Okay. First of all, that guy had to be a pro broadcaster, right? Yeah, that quality. That was ridiculous. Yeah.

Probably better quality than our show. It certainly is. Okay, so was his win a fluke? Absolutely not. I just went through and showed you like every small hole. that Pico was leaving. It wasn't like, oh, you're like, well, Pico didn't control enough, so therefore Borich got out.

You have to recognize the opening, and then you have to recognize what to do about it. If you think, like, for example, if I took someone off the street and I had a blue or a purple belt control them, that blue and a purple belt is not going to have the same kind of control as, let's say, the recent UFC signee Hidalpho Vieira. They're going to miss things.

They're not going to have as tight control. is that person off the street going to know what to do? They're just going to sit there and get destroyed by some by some purple belt. They're going to get mounted and then choked out or whatever, arm broken. But that doesn't mean you had the exact same level of control. There was a dip there. So my point being is, it's yes, there might have been some pieces to Pico's game missing in the application. But Borich recognized all of them and reacted to all of them.

Now, had there been someone like Habib on top of them, maybe it would have been a bit of a different story. But I thought he actually looked really good. And again, he's had multiple flying knee KOs at this point. So that's not an accident either. He's good. Very good. Yeah.

And yeah. And he's only 25, man. And he's at a great camp. I think he could be like something big for Belator in the next couple of years. 25 years old is nothing. Nothing. Healthy. You know, oh, man.

And I wonder how big it can be. Have you ever been to Budapest? Never. Very good things. Budapest. I heard it's nice. First, really nice. The democracy's having a little trouble with old Victor Orban.

But yeah, no, I, I, I, there's nothing fluky about it. Now, how good is he relative to the top of that division? I don't know. I would love to see him in the tournament. I think it'd be great if he was there. Yeah, that'd be pretty sick. He's also pretty big. Like, if you saw him in person.

Yeah, compared to Pico, he was a lot bigger. I was like, Jesus Christ. Pico is how big would you say for 145? On the small side. It was weird. Because he's, I'm aware about. like the same size as far as like obviously he's a lot more muscular than I am

but yeah yeah he is in case you didn't know I find that very surprising as far as like body frame like we're about the same height you know that was sort of like the same size in in that regard and when I talked to him he seemed a little parched he seemed he was having

trouble with the weight cut so I don't know no no pico yeah so it was kind of weird because it's like I feel like you should be making this kind of not comfortably but you know right Borich was cutting 20 pounds he said. Right. Yeah. Boyd seemed like the fresher fighter, but, you know, I don't know. It was weird.

All right. Want to do a couple more of these? Yeah. Yeah, let's do it. So something interesting that came out of that whole fight week was, first of all, just a cross-promotion in general, and then Scott Coker had a few things to say. So let's discuss that. Hey, Luke, Danny, Nino from Washington Township, New Jersey.

How you's doing? I had a question here for you. So recently, Scott Coker has come out in an interview and said that he wouldn't be opposed to a Belator versus UFC event. Yeah, that's a nothing headline. I was just wondering who would be your top pick for a main event? What would be the most interesting fight and your guy's opinion for a Belator fighter and a UFC fighter? Thank you. Love your show.

Want to know what you think about this. All right. By the way, Scott Coker being like, yeah, I would love to do it. You know, let's do it. Yeah. Sort of like me being like, yeah, I would love to win the lottery. You know what I mean? Like, I'd love, you know what I mean?

I'd love to be a movie star. I'd like to do a lot of things. It's just not going to happen. So it's a way. Yeah, you never know. It's not going to happen. You think they're going to. Conrad Floyd may with him.

Okay. You want to bet everything I own. It doesn't happen in my lifetime. Well, I'll bet you, I'll bet you this way. As long as Dana White's at the UFC doesn't have. happen. Yeah. So that's the issue. Yeah. Now, if he leaves, who knows? Um, ooh, fantasy matchup. That's an interesting one. I would say, um, uh, Pitbull versus Petrozo Pitbull versus Max Holloway's kind of interesting. Yeah. That's a good one.

Yeah. What do you think? Yeah, I mean with, yeah, that's a good one. I think with the, champ, right? Yeah. With the whole Bantamway conversation, why not, you know, Suhudo Horiguchi? Hell yeah. That's a great one. I think the winner there you could easily say, they're the best. By the way, Horoucci could win that one too, bro. Yeah. Don't think he couldn't. And the winner there is the best bantam weight at the moment.

Yeah. Yeah. No doubt about it. Yeah. That'd be a great one. That's a really great one. Wow. Yeah, that'd be it.

Also, are you curious for Ryan Bader D.C.? I kind of am a little bit. No. No? No. That one seems fairly straightforward to me. No? I would favor D.C. heavily, but

I feel much different about this matchup now, than when Bader was in the UFC. Sure. But Bader's got his hands full with Leota. Do you think he beats Leoto in the rematch? That's the big one. That's another question that they asked. Oh, is it?

Okay. So we'll leave that for later on. All right. What else? Do we have any update on Kevin Lee? He hasn't replied, which is... Usually he's great with, you know, with getting back to people, but I don't know.

He hasn't gone back to me. So I guess let's just give it a few more minutes and see what's up. All right. All right, that's fun. Yeah. Six start to my Monday, bro. What can you do? I've been in this business since 2006.

Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Look at me now. I got a studio show. How much bigger does my career need to get before this doesn't happen? You know what I'm saying? Because it always happens at every level. And look, maybe it could be some kind of miscommunications.

I'm sure it's totally innocuous. I love Kevin Lee. But I'm just saying, like, how many times like, what I got to do? I got to be a, you know, I got to be a show on NBC or something. I'm going to have the Tonight Show. Yeah. I wonder. You got real quiet when I asked that question.

Why is that? Huh? No, nothing. What can we ask these questions? It's a weird thing. It's a weird thing. It's a weird thing. It's like hurting cats with these fighters, man.

Yeah, it's weird. And I mean, Kevin, as I said, like, Kevin's never flaky or anything like that. It's weird. Kevin's great. I'm sure it's some kind of misunderstanding. I'm just saying it just, I just keep wondering how I escalate through the levels. And that aspect of trying to get fighters on your show never changes. It never changed.

So it's just a fact of existence. All right, let's do some more calls. All right. Speaking of Sehudo and the Bantamway Division, this was a bit of an interesting question. For me, it's an easy answer, but I don't know if you feel any different. So here goes. Hey, Luke. This is D. Money from South Riding, Virginia.

DeMoney. I just wanted to know your opinion on who had a better win streak. Henry Sehudo or Dustin Porier. I don't really have a take, but let me know your thoughts. I'd say Dustin Poirier. Yeah. But that's a tough one. Really?

By the way, he's from Shantilly. Old Drabb Tilly. People know about Drab Tilly in D. God. All right. So look, I don't think it's a... That Maraishe win is unbelievable.

And it's probably better than any of the wins that... Dustin has, but he asked about the win streak. Yeah. So the DJ fight, you can make a case he didn't lose. So who, the, the, for he lost. Sorry, that he lost. Yeah. Because I know a lot of people think DJ won.

Yeah, that's close. Then you have the one against TJ, which was impressive, but short, so it's hard exactly what to know. So that's, those two is interesting. The Maraisch fight is just like the most legit. Again, I don't think Dustin has one as legit as that. But in beating Pedis. and then stopping him,

and then stopping him, and then stopping Geci, and then Alvarez, and then now this with Holloway. That's, to me, that's a better four-fight body of work, to be honest. Yep, I agree.

I think if you look at individual fights, like, dude, beating Demetri's Johnson, especially at that moment in his career, that was big. You know, beating T. T.J. Delishaw is big. But if you actually, you know,

string those together, because So Hood also has, and I'm not trying to be, like, disparaging, but So Hood also has winsover. Sergio Pettis, who's a very good fighter, Wilson Hayes, who's a very good fighter.

But, I mean, Dustin Porre, you just go down the line and it's just studs, you know, back to back. So for me, it's Dustin Pori. But I will say that Suhudo win over Maraisch. It's big. That is so goddamn impressive. So impressive.

A weight class above, too. It's ridiculous. Poria is staying out. Yeah, we'll see what happens. But yeah, I know what you mean. But to beat Maraishe the way he did, that was extremely impressive. Extremely impressive.

So that one win is better. But something else, I don't know. Yeah, for sure. Next. All right. Well, you brought it up, so Bader Machita. Let's see what's up. I...

Hey, Luke and Danny. This is Jordan the Jank calling from Gainesville, Florida. It's been a while. I've called. Hope you guys are doing well. My question is, how do you guys feel about Machita against Bader? Is it a wash? I personally feel like it's just not a good matchup kind of at all.

I feel like for Liotto. And he is one of my absolute favorite fighters. It's not easy to say this. I'm just trying to be. honest about it. How do you guys feel? Thanks guys. Do you understand what he means about that? Liotta knocked him out in the first one. Yeah, I know, but he feels like Liotto... Is older now?

He's older now. Bader's much better? We've seen him lose before, you know, after that Bader fight. Two, I'll tell you right now. So he... Well, he lost to Phil Davis. He lost to Chris Whiteman. Then he had that bad losing streak of Rockhold, U.S. Romero, Derek Brunson,

and then since he hasn't lost. So I do feel like when Bader fought Machita, that might have been Prime Machita. Yeah, look, I'd probably favor Bader at this point, but Machita's still pretty crafty. He's pretty smart. He's preserved himself.

Against Sun, and he looked really good. I don't know if it came across to you the same way on TV or the Zone, the streaming app. In what way? But I feel like he looked better than that was his best performance in, like, the last, like, you know, three, four years. Like, he was quick.

I mean, maybe it's something about, the opponent as well, but he looked really good, man. Machita's far from Washington. I thought he looked great. I thought he looked great. You know, I think Bader's a different cookie than Chale. Of course. Obviously, he can wrestle, but for folks, he didn't pay attention.

Since that Rashad fight, Bader has showed incredible striking. Remember, he didn't take a single punch in the entire heavyweight Grand Prix. I mean, it's ridiculous what he can do, but he can still wrestle as well. Yep. And I think it's physically stronger than Machita. So it's an interesting matchup, but like, I don't have existential. dread or something for Machita's chances. I think Machita can pull it off.

Yeah, I just probably favor, Bader. Yeah. But do you think Bader's going to go in there and just mop the floor with him? Like, maybe he does? Maybe. That's not like, I don't know, it's not like, it's not like Dylan Dance versus Max Humphrey. We're like, you know, how long, how much punishment is Max going to take before they call it a day? I don't quite see it like that.

No, not at all. I think it's pretty competitive. And it wouldn't surprise me at all if Lotto picks up a win there. But I'd favor Bader slightly. But look, Machita's very elusive. Dude, those flying knees against Sunnan. When have we seen him throw flying knees like that in his career? I don't remember.

I'm sure he has. I can't. I just can't remember it. I felt like that was a bit of a new tool. By the way, there's his name. If I don't mention it on air, I'm going to lose my goddamn mind. It's the guy I talked about who was from Marcella Garcia's who's so nice from BJJ Fanatics. Do you know who I'm talking about?

God, what is his name? Mateo's Dinsin? No, not Mateus Denise. God. Bernardo Faria. Bernardo Faria, that's the guy. Bernardo Faria. Oh, my Lord.

He one time showed me how to do shoulder pressure a year, maybe five years ago. It's deadly, bro. I thought my jaw was going to go shooting out of my face. It was so painful. He looked at me. You guys don't know Bernard Faria. He's bald. He's a multiple time black belt world champion.

He always smiles. He never stopped smiling. And he looked at me after, like, I do my jaw seriously hurt. I was in tremendous pain. And he lets go. And I was like, that was really bad. He's like, yeah, man, if it doesn't hurt, you're not doing it right. And just kept on smiling.

Like, he was so happy about it. So that's when I talk about, like, you got to control Bama's like that, you know. There you go. Sorry. Bernardo Faria. But, hey, I'm all in for Machita Bader. By the way, who would you rather, what way class would you rather have Machita fight for the belt in? Middleweight or light heavy?

Do you have a preference? Well, I guess if he's fighting Bader, he's fighting. I'm more intrigued than Machita Bader than Machia Musas. I guess light heavy. But I guess, yeah, yeah, I guess light heavy. Yeah. And then Musassi has a title fight this coming weekend against

Raphael Lavato, right? Yeah, it's going to be a good one too. All right, let's do one more. And then, I guess if Kevin Lee's not here, we can just go and commit ritual suicide. All right. Sounds like a plan. Yep.

All right, I'll let you pick. Let's see. We got, what do you think is the most useful, successful martial art in MMA. What happens if Poria wins? Home, Nunez breakdown. Let's do Poirier.

Hi, this is David from Tampa. I was wondering if in an alternate universe, if Dustin Porreier beats Khabi, do you think Connor tries to fight Dustin or still goes after Khabi?

So, here's my thought on that. First of all, no alternate universe. I think, look, I think the odds are not in favor of Porreya, but I think he could potentially pull it off. Bro, anybody who thinks that Porreier has no chance to win. Yeah, you're crazy. Again, Kabib is your rightful favorite. Fine.

Yes. I very much take seriously Dustin Poirier's ability. He's a threat. You'd be foolish not to. So I think that Habib gets an immediate rematch. He'd be losing his title. He'd be losing his title in the first defeat of his career. career, there's no way they don't run that back.

Really? Yeah. And here's the thing. You don't think Connor can sneak in there and then it, you know, Connor might like his chances against Poria, keeping in mind that he has a win over him. And then if he does win, then you can potentially get a, you know, Pori, Habib, too, or McGregor, Habib, too.

I have a feeling that if Dustin wins, it's not going to be one of those things where he stops all the takedowns and then just knuckles him into the dirt. Yeah. I have a feeling that it's going to be back and forth with Habib controlling him and getting into advantage. of spots and really hurting Dustin, Destin finding a way to hang on and then rocking him

and this going on for round after round, in which case either guy would be able to claim, oh, with a few adjustments, I can go and win this versus, let's just say Dustin went in there and just obliterated him, like made him look like an amateur. Well, then you could say, all right, well, there's no, like in the case for Stepe versus DC,

my whole point about this was, yes, the fame element didn't work in your favor because you explicitly rejected it, but more to the point, The fight was signed in January. You had an entire season, ultimate fighter. You fought in July or June or July, whatever was, six, seven months later, and you got beat inside a round.

What is the case for a rematch? There is none. You can make another one outside of it, winningest fighter and the division is a champion. But like inside what happened in that Octagon, there is no case for a rematch at all. Yeah. Okay?

So imagine he does something like that. Then the Connor sweepstakes get a little bit more interesting. But I have a feeling that even if Dustin wins, Kabe was going to take a pound of flesh. from him no matter what. Yeah, I think so too. It's got to be a back and forth. I mean, it's always possible that

Habib just gets starched, but I don't think so. I think, I think Poria, and I think Poria knows that. I think, you know, entering the Geh fight, he said something like, you know, I know I'm going to leave a piece of myself in there. I feel like he probably feels the same way about it with the Habib fight. Yeah.

Yeah. All right. Well, let's call that a day. So we are officially on the No Kevin Lee interview bandwagon here. Yeah. I mean, no, no, No reply. No reply? That's so unlike him. I know. Very, very weird. I wonder what happened there. See if you can figure that out and let me know, okay. Yeah, for sure. I hope everything's okay. That's what I... Yeah. All right. Well, thank you very much.

More calls. Keep sending to Danny. By the way, they can email you. You heard them. The MMA hour at Voxmedia.com. Keep calling 844-86-2468. Sorry about some of the programming changes. We appreciate you guys watching. And until next time, stay frosty.