MMA Fighting - The MMA Hour with Ariel Helwani - Best of The MMA Hour 2015 edition (vol. 1)

Episode Date: December 29, 2015

On this "best of" edition volume 1 of the show, we'll feature some of our most memorable interviews of 2015. Here's who you'll hear from: T.J. Dillashaw, Dominick Cruz, Nate Diaz, Georges St-Pierre, Rampage Jackson, Mirko Cro Cop, Forrest Griffin & Stephan Bonnar and BJ Penn. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Apropos, if you ask me, we're talking to the UFC Bantamway champion, T.J. Dilleshaw, right off the bat. He joins us right now via the phone. TJ, how are you? I'm doing good, man. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it as well. So, wow, what a week it has been for you. From what I understand, it was around this time last week, Monday of last week, that you informed some of the members of Team Alpha Malea that you'll be going to Colorado for your next camp,

in particular elevation fight team. And of course, once this news came out on Tuesday, it spread like wildfire, a lot of takes going back and forth. A week later, given the reaction and what has transpired since, are you still happy with the decision you made? Oh, absolutely. There's no other way I would have done made the decision. I mean, obviously, it's been really tough,

actually a lot tougher than I even imagined. I thought it was going to be going over a little bit easier. But you really find out who people are when you've got to make these kind of decisions. So why tougher than you thought? What happened that you weren't expecting? You know, I thought some of the guys on the team would, I mean, actually most everyone did actually take it that way,

but I feel that, you know, your ride took it a little bit harder than I thought he was going to take it. You know, I thought he was going to understand my position and understand why I'm at. And, you know, kind of feeling like he almost put me in this position. In what respect? You know, I kind of want to talk about the position I didn't put in. You know, I've been stuck in between Uriah and Duane Ludwig for this last camp

going back and forth from my training camp, and these guys bickering at each other, and making it tough on me. You know, I mean, he brought a coach in the team off of male in my last two years in my career that I learned to believe it, I learned to love, and I learned to trust with my career. And then he leaves, and then a bunch of drama happens, and, you know, I happen to choose where I want to go and who I want to train with. I'm not supposed to train with a coach that I put all my faith into and help me win a world title. You know, I believe if you go back and look at my fight in the last two years and see how my kickboxing has developed, I mean, I know all that to Dway.

You know, I mean, it's a very, very tough situation to be put in. So do you feel almost like your hand was forced, like, given what's happened, especially in the last couple months, that you had to make a decision one way or the other, either you're staying with Alpha Male full time or you're going to Colorado to be closer to Dwayne, but you couldn't keep. doing what you were doing for the last couple fights? Yeah, I guess so. You know, obviously more than this last week I was forced to do a lot of more things than I thought was going to happen, you know. My plan was, I told you're going to, look, man, I got a big fight coming up. I got to do it, I believe, the best for me getting ready for this fight, and that's being

spending my whole camp in Colorado. You know, I split it half and half. My last camping is really tough. It was hard to do, you know, going back and forth. And I just felt, you know, with the team they have out there, with the coaches, coach of that out there. I felt a little more comfortable with spending my camp out there. And, you know, he took it pretty hard, and I was actually forced out of the gym. You know, I'm not allowed to work out at Alpha Milam anymore because of that decision I made.

You know, I live in Sacramento. I've lived in Sacramento the last six years, and I've been putting in a lot of work here and helping the guys out as much as possible. I mean, shoot, I teach kickboxing classes on Mondays and Thursdays, you know, and that's just not really going to fly with me when I get into camp. And it's tough for someone that I understand that I put my heart, soul under the team as much as I possibly can to kick me out of the gym. You know, like, I'm not allowed to show my face at alpha male, which is kind of crazy to me. How have you been handling that?

Is that heartbreaking for you? You've been banned from a gym that you've been a part of for your entire career, right? Oh, yeah. So what's that like for you? How do you stomach that? One day and time, and I don't know. It's tough. It's tough.

Just know that I'm making the right decision and that I've got a big fight coming up, and ultimately that's the most important thing. You know, I made this decision to train somewhere else. You know, like I said, I didn't think it was going to be as blown up and as ridiculous as it is now. But it's real tough, man. I mean, especially when I'm best friends with all these guys. You know, not only the training partners and guys I want to do well in their careers,

but guys that I love and care about every single day, you know. So it's a super tough thing going on. How are you with your eye now after that decision? and I don't know if you heard it, but I'm sure you've seen some quotes. He was on the Stud Show radio podcast, which is an alpha male podcast. Talked a lot about this situation. After all this, the last five days or so, what's your relationship like with him? Well, you know, I'm just trying to look past all this and understand that maybe his feelings are hurt,

but, you know, it kind of put me on blast when he went on that podcast. Now, I'm trying to be the bigger man and not to bring out any negativity in what he's doing here in Sacramento, because it would be very easy for me to do. do so, you know, especially after him putting me on blast on the, on such a radio. And I went on and just talked about the positives in Sacramento and the positives of me moving chance, you know, and then he's got to get on there and talk a little crap and, you know, throw me under the bus. I just don't want to be that guy and I want to keep my relationship going with him.

And the only way to do that is to just look past it. You know, I understand that his feelings are hurt that I'm going elsewhere, but, yeah, I feel like he should understand it just like everyone else on the team. I feel it's a little more understandable with some of the guys on the team, and he's, you know, it's telling him, I guess. I want to continue a relationship with him. I want to continue his friends, so I'm just going to be the bigger man. So are you done with Sacramento?

Are you moving to Colorado full-time, especially now that you're no longer welcome at Alpha Mail? I'm actually heading today. I'm catching a flight to out to Colorado to go and find a house to lease out there for the next year. You know, I mean, I've definitely been out there for the next year. I mean, not saying I'm not going to be in Sacramento. to all need my family lives here. You know, there's an hour and a half in Sacramento. I've created a life here the last six years in Sacramento,

so it's not like I'm not going to be here. I'm keeping my house in Sacramento. But I'm not allowed to be in the gym outside of... I'm not allowed to be in the gym in Sacramento, so it's almost kind of pointless to come back when getting better is in the off-season, you know? I mean, you prepare yourself in camp, you sharpen your tools in camp, you get better out of camp.

You know, and so if I'm not allowed to come back here and work out, then, you know, it's pretty ridiculous. Yeah, I'm full-time Colorado. So, okay, so ever since this news came out, and I'm sure you've seen it because you look at your Instagram, your Twitter, it's amazing the amount of negativity that has been thrown your way, and a lot of it started with what Connor McGregor said about you. We talked about this on my show, and now you've been viewed as this, or painted as this Benedict Arnold, this quote-unquote snake in the grass.

I mean, a lot of venom thrown your way. Has this blindsided you? Did you expect, when you knew that this was coming out, did you say, oh, okay, this is going to happen, to a degree, but the amount in which it's happened? I mean, did that surprise you, or were you fully expecting that? Because it's been pretty amazing. So just look at the comments. It's all negative towards you.

Yeah, it's pretty crazy. It was just, I guess, timing is everything. I guess, on that. And it all happens at the time of Connor calling this out. You know, it's actually kind of ridiculous for him to call me a snake or a trader, you know, and the fact that I made a business decision. You know, and I feel like that's, you know, like, Connor's thing is making business. business decisions. It's all about business.

It's a fight business, you know. And I'm getting told I'm a snake because I made a business decision for my career. You know, and that's just pretty hypocritical to me. And now we've got all these people believing in what he says. You know, if I'm a trader, then I feel like he's even a bigger trader to his country. You know, he rests Ireland and he's his big countryman. And then he lives in the United States now. He moved to Las Vegas.

Why? It's better for his career. It's business, you know. And so I hope everyone understands it. like I'm just trying to stay on top. I want to become the best in the main fighter possible, and I need coaches to do so. You know, and right now in Sacramento,

I'm teaching kickboxing classes. Martin Kampman's moving home. We have a great mitt-man as a boxing coach, but he's a boxing coach. You know, we have to coach each other at Team Alpha now, and that's a big problem for me. When I've noticed what a coach is going to do for you and how much better it can make you,

I need that in my life. So ultimately, the business decision, I can have these haters out there, but haters are going to hate. Dwayne isn't officially a part of Elevation Fight team, although he lives in the same city, and I know he has a good relationship with Leicester Bowling and those guys. If they weren't based in Colorado and Denver in particular,

would you have not even entertained that thought? Does this make it easier because he's there as well? Absolutely. The only reason why I even know about this great team is because of going to Colorado. So I wouldn't even know about Elevation Fight team and all the great coaches out there if I wouldn't have gone to Colorado. I mean, Leicester Bowling is an awesome wrestling coach, and as well as a head coach.

And he leads by example, he makes everyone accountable. He makes you feel bad for missing practice. We got Ellen Marshall teaching jujitsu, Lauren Mandatel, one of the best training coaches out there. You know, they got an awesome striking coach out there, Chris, and I'll be hitting myths with, and then Duane. So, yes, Duane is a huge influence on this. I mean, I was going to work out with Duane no matter what. That's why I went to call that for my last camp, you know, not even knowing what was out there. everyone out there. You know, I just packed myself up and knew that I need to be around

Duane. He makes me more confident, and I know that I'm a better fighter around him. So, yeah, he's a huge influence on this. When Yariah was on this show and spent around 80 minutes or so talking about the whole story between him and Dwayne and the falling out, if you will, was that the breaking point for you? Was that, you know, the final straw, or was it something else? I wouldn't say it was the final straw. You know, I mean, the final straw is just, you know, talking to some of the final straw. the coaches out in Colorado and thinking about my career in the long run, you know, that definitely helped.

I mean, that wasn't very cool in my eyes, you know, I mean, a lot of it was true, you know, on both ends from what they've been saying about each other, but a lot of it's blown out of proportion too. And to go on, to go on an 80-minute rant about someone's a little bit ridiculous and look to those guys going back and forth at each other through the media is a little childish, and so that definitely helped me push me one direction, but ultimately it's about... Me won the best for my next fights in my career, and I think I'm going to grow more than an A fighter with some coaches around me. When you first came out and talked about this news last Tuesday, you talked about it being a business decision and you're getting paid, and who can fault you?

You're a fighter for a very short amount of time. You've got to make that money. We all understand that. Since then, your eye on that show talked about how I think if you dedicated your life to mowing lawn for a year, you'd make the same amount. And even Brian Stan, while complimenting your decision, said maybe in hindsight you shouldn't have talked about the money because that leads to other issues, guys. In hindsight, do you regret saying that, or are you fine with putting out the reasons? I think a lot of people appreciate that honesty, but it has brought upon these other comments. Yeah, I mean, I don't regret it at all. You know, it's just the fact of the minute. If I would have stayed here at Alpha Mail, I'd have put a lot of money in to beat my own coach to where I'm getting sponsored.

You know, it's a sponsorship from the muscles. farm that's willing to put some money behind me not only money but to set up my camp the way I need it, you know, to bring in training partners that I need to figure out the best situation for me to be the best fighter possible. No, I don't regret talking about it. It's a situation I couldn't pass up. It was all my mind.

You know, I'm a very honest person and I'm going to tell you exactly how it is. You know, I can't really hide any details of what's going on. And I'm in a very fortunate situation, you know, and, you know, muscle farm believes in me and, you know, I want to believe in what they're going to do for me. Are they paying you big money to go

over there? No, I wouldn't say it's definitely not huge money, but it definitely makes a difference. Okay, here's what it does. It's pretty much just going to help me pay for my coaching. I felt to pay for my coaches. I supposed to do that. It's just helped me do so. It's just, it's pretty much the same thing as getting me a sponsor monthly from someone

else, you know. It's helped me figure out my camp and be able to put as much energy into my camp as well. I don't have to, I don't have to go along if that makes a difference. Right. You're a no dummy. I know you see the comments out there and what people and the media and fans are saying, this is all leading to a fight between T.J. Dillashah and Uriah Fabor.

Are you open to this fight now based on what's happened over the past week? You know, I didn't think I would be until Uriah started saying the stuff he did. You know, he's the one saying that he's more than willing to fight me, you know. And I thought we were a lot closer friends than that. You know, I put my heart and soul into this team, and I thought we're a lot closer than that. So, I mean, he's obviously looking for, I think, a big fight in his career, and I don't want to have to do it, but, you know, I'll be the last,

the last statement on his career side the same easy, but that's not the way I really want to do it. But now, you know, he talked about Dana White asking him twice and him turning it down. If you get that call after Cruz that they want you to fight Faber, you can understand why they would want it. The amount of attention this has received is pretty insane. Do you say yes at this point? Yeah, probably most likely, yeah. And given your training sessions in the past, how confident are you? Because he knows a lot about you.

I mean, he helped groom you into the fight you are today to agree. Is this a fight you're comfortable as far as skill versus skills concerned? Absolutely. Absolutely, yeah. How strange would that be for you and with your relationship to the guys, or do you feel like there is no more relationship with those guys anymore? You're your own? There's definitely a relationship with the guys, even with your eye.

I mean, I don't want to have to fight your eye. That's not something I want to do. I love to get. You know, I think both in his quarter. You know, I'm the champion. I have to go. Both in his quarter what he wants. I'm leaving it that way, what he wants.

to do. I want to keep relationships with all these guys. I love them all. They're family to me, not only teammates. There's not one guy in that team I don't like. Even the guys coming up, they're going to have a future at Team Alpha with all these young guys come up.

They have some studs coming out of that room. You know, it's a bunch of iron, sharpening iron. I just feel that they could benefit from having some coaches there. They could benefit from me being around teaching kick boxing classes, which I've already been doing. But now I'm forced out of the gym, which is very hurtful. You know, it's just, I need a coach as well. I can't be coaching everyone else in coach myself,

and I just don't understand how Luraii doesn't see that. You know, the sport is growing, the sport is becoming amazing. Those guys like St. North is coming in at 19 years old and looking good. You know, like these guys are going to catch up to us, and I've got to continue to get better. I understand Joseph Benavides got married on Friday. You were all there. I saw pictures of this photo evidence. What was that like?

I mean, I saw pictures of you sort of next to your eye. Did you guys talk? Did you try to clear the air? Or was it awkward? No, it was good, man. I mean, it's fine. I mean, maybe I guess a little bit of awkwardness, but no, I mean, I'm fine with it. You know, I mean, he's making his decision, I guess, maybe strictly off a business, too.

Who knows, you know? I'm going to be a bigger man, like I said, and I want to continue a relationship with you. I don't want this to be a bunch of drama, you know? So I'm trying to continue life as it was. You know, I had a great time at the wedding. It was one of the best weddings you've ever been to. It was amazing. Are you fully expecting in the back of your mind, given how big of a fight this would be after Cruz that you're going to be offered this?

Oh, yeah, I've definitely talked about it, you know, with my management, with my wife. You know, it's probably something to be pushed towards me, I'd imagine. You know, I guess it's just, I'd imagine Zeef was pretty happy about this. Yeah. Do you think that, you know, I mean, you can't foresee the future, but it's amazing. You still have three months, more than three months before the cruise fight. How are you going to have every single interview that you do from now to then? I bet, and it's amazing.

The cruise fight is a fascinating fight. Like I said, I think to you, last year on the show, it's maybe the fight I'm most looking forward to stylistically coming up. And I would imagine, like, 80% of your interviews are going to be about this topic. How are you going to deal with that distraction? So that's what I'm dealing with it now. You know, I'm getting everything I want out now. I'm coming on your show now and speaking my mind.

When my fight gets closer and I get into camp, I'm going to tell them, if you want to ask me a fight about me and Domner, I'm more than happy to do an interview with you. If you want to talk about me leaving Team Alpha Mail and we'll not do an interview with you. That question at all, I will stop the interview. That's just why I'm going to have to play it. I mean, this isn't about me and leaving Team Alpha Mail.

It's like, what about all these other fighters that lead camps to go to different camps to become a better fighter? Like, this is being blown out of the water. And if you want to ask me about Donald Cruz, the biggest fight of my life coming up, you all mean. So I'll talk about it,

and I'm going to win this fight. But anything else I will just stop the interview. Why do you think it's being made into such a big deal? You know, maybe just because of the fact of how close team Alpha Mel is. You know, we haven't had anybody... Yeah. I mean, we've had guys leave, and no one that's been, like, the prime group. The prime group of the last six, seven years, you know?

I mean, we've all stuck through. We've worked through some problems and trying to figure some things out. That's why we brought Dwayne in. You know, I mean, that's the only reason why Dwayne came in is because a bunch of the guys met up with Uri and told me to use your coach. Uriah did a great job and research on who we should bring in. And it's a fantastic thing, you know, and then it turned into it. So it's just because I think I'm the first one of the big name that's leading from the team. Just throwing it out there, do you think part of it has to do the fact that you're the first champion?

Did you ever feel afterwards that there was any resentment towards you? Oh, I didn't. They've done a great job backing me, you know. Every guy in my weight class, every guy of the team has done a great job supporting me. And, you know, I actually never felt me resentment. you know, maybe there is, I don't know, but I definitely did not do it. You know, this day, we've done a great job staying as a family. You know, I mean, I think you just, I don't know.

I don't know what this is all about. Yeah, and of course, I should clarify first UFC champion. Of course, you're I in favor, decorated WC. But, I mean, it's a big deal. It's a much bigger stage, and you were the first. That will always be the case. So right now, you know, you're going to Colorado. Is that it?

I mean, are you all packed up, or you're just going to check it out? You're coming back to Sacramento. I would imagine Sacramento. are not a very big place. You're going to run into these guys. It's going to linger until you leave probably, right? Yeah, I mean, I hope I learned to these guys. Okay.

I'm famous. I want to continue to be friends of these guys. Yeah, I leave today to go find a house. You know, I'm not on all my stuff packed up yet. I need to figure out where I'm living and figure out that whole situation. I'll go out there and get some practicing right now because I can't practice here, you know, other than Shadowbuck through my back door, do whatever. But go out there, practice, find a house, hang out with the team.

you know, it's one thing that I feel bad about as well is that the guys that are targeted the elevation fight team, the guys are out there that are already really good, I feel like getting overlooked by this, you know, you got the Neo Magnus, the Brandon Fatchez, the Tony Stens, you know, the guys that aren't even in the U.S.E that are amazing. One of those

sparring partners for my last three or four can't, Corey, out there. You know, there's so many talented fighters out there that I don't want them to be overshadowed by this drama that's going on. You know, I'm moving into an established three teams, and I'm excited about it, and I'm glad they're letting me come. you know, they're letting me join their team.

In the back of your mind, can you understand why Yerai F said to you, you can't come to the gym anymore, or do you feel like that's completely off-base and unfair? I do think it's unfair. I mean, I can understand where he's coming from. Him thinking that I have to leave the deal if I can because it's not good enough there, you know, that's a hard truth. You know, I may hopefully it lights a fire under his ass and he fixes some things out and

off the left for the rest of the guys, you know. But I do think it's unfair because I've given him back. I feel more of this team than he has in the last few years. You know, I'm in there teaching practice when he's not even in the gym. You know, it's funny, he said since he, since this whole announcement and he's saying I was leaving, he's seen me more at the gym. The reason why he's seen me more to the gym is because he's been around more. I'm the one of putting in all the hard time there and teaching classes and being there.

You know, I'm one of the guys who's in the gym here round. So, yeah, I feel like it's okay. I feel like I put in a lot of effort to make the team better. What about this reputation that you have this temper and that you hurt guys and things like that? Is that unfair? I definitely have something I've had to work on. It's just my competitive edge, you know, in practice. I definitely don't do it maliciously.

It's something new. I'm just an aggressive. Like when I get into sparring, I spar a little bit, a little bit aggressive. I'd say I got blown out of the water. You know, it's definitely a fault of mine that I have, but I think it was hard to have a little bit too much, you know? I mean, I'm aggressive. I feel like that's what's forming my whole title though as well. You know, but I have to control it, and I need to continue to try to control it,

and need control the aggression, you know, to bring it out when I need it. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. The two last quick things, and then we'll let you go, and I really appreciate the time. You know, he used this term family, and actually I do really believe that the alpha-mail team is a family. Like, when you won the belt, it was amazing to look at your teammates react to the win, because you can tell there was no jealousy there. what to, I mean, they were so happy for you. Do you feel, do you feel like that's salvageable at all to still remain a part of that family?

Just, you know, like, you're part of the sister camp, if you will, and you're still viewed as, you know, one of those guys? Or do you think as time goes on, because it's all well and good a week later to say you want to be a part of it? But you know how this thing will blow up? Do you think as time goes on, it's just going to be impossible to remain that way? I don't think so. I think if time goes on, it will make it easier. Okay. At least I hope so.

I hope some feelings get lesser up from it. But I was, I mean, I'm definitely going to put my effort in and try to continue to be a part of this family because it's, it told me in so many ways with just life in my career. You know, there's no way of around it. You know, I love these guys. So, yeah, I think we'll see that it'll be a little bit easier here in the near future, actually, even, too. And like I said, you know, this situation has been brewing for quite some time. And I think anyone leaves another camp, and we don't see this coming. It's just a story.

A guy leaves a camp. because of the back and forth and all that, it's turned into this soap opera, if you will. Is there anything that in hindsight you wish you could have done differently, or is this the case of a champion somewhat outgrowing his team and looking to remain as competitive as possible, keep that edge and go find some fresh training elsewhere? Is that all that this is, or is there more to it

that you wish you could have done differently? That is what it is, that thing you just said. The only thing I would have done differently is maybe the Chinese. You know, you guys said don't see for Connor McGregor decided to talk some crap on the military and then all of his minions are going to follow and talk about you crap. I got a very influential person. He's growing huge.

He's, you know, he's smart with his words. I think he saw this coming before your eye. I did. He knew that, you know, I have a close relationship with a coach. Like,

that's something you can't pass up. You know, once you get that relationship, I have a guy that works harder at his job than I do. You know, it's hard to find. So I guess, yeah, just the timing.

I would have done it maybe easier, probably earlier, you know, if I could have. Okay. I was trying to salvage what I have as a family. I was trying to figure out hopefully we're going to switch some things up. We're going to bring in some coaching, and it's going to be a different situation.

So I was trying to hold on as long as I possibly could do this, because, like I said, it's a very tough situation for me. For me, even just to tell you, Raya, that I wanted to do my whole camp in Colorado, was a really hard thing coming to do, you know. So, yeah, I mean, I wish I was done earlier, but it was hard because I was trying to hold on to something, you know? Last quick thing, was this 100% your decision, or did Dwayne try to get you to go over Leicester Bowling? Anyone else try to recruit you to leave the team?

Oh, 100% mine. Yeah, when you're right, I said that Leicester recruited me, that was kind of crazy. Because Leicester was the one that told me, like, you was the best for you. And saying that Sacramento was best for you, then you need to do that. Like, even if he wasn't telling me, it was before anything of being sponsored came into the question, you know, saying that, you know, I need to figure out what's best for me. And do you think traveling back and forth is the best thing? staying in one spot.

And he liked me as a person. I like him as a person. He's one of the best for me. He didn't try to recruit me. It was me making this decision all my own. T.J., really appreciate you coming on, especially before your flight. Good luck with the move and looking for a place and all that.

Good luck with this transition. And, of course, good luck in camp. Thanks so much for the time. I appreciate it. Thank you. All right, there he is. The UFC Bantamweight Champion, T.J. Dillishaw, joining us a emotional week, a hectic week for him.

A lot of news. coming his way and from his neck of the woods in Sacramento, what a story this has been. And like I said, I think a lot of people, as much as there are some who feel like, oh, you know, this is all about Mano I Mano and martial arts, everyone's attracted to this kind of soap opera, this kind of drama, and it's one that we've been seeing for quite some time. And when you throw out words like family and the references or the similarities to the godfather and all that, I mean, this is a guy who was brought in by Uriah Faber and they appeared to have had a great relationship and he became a champion. He was a part of a very tight-knit team. I think he nailed it. Not a lot of guys

leave alpha male. And the reason for that is, I mean, they're just a bunch of good guys that everyone seems to get along and there's no reason for that. They've really developed something amazing from the ground up in a very short amount of time. For one guy to leave and him also being the champion, it starts to raise questions and we saw this coming a long time. I mean, it just turned into this crazy story, and it all came to a head last week, and I can imagine it's going to play out for weeks and months to come. Very excited to talk to the man who will hopefully be fighting T.J. Dillashaw soon rather than later, the uncrowned champion, the king without a crown, Dominic.

Dominic, are you there? Thank you for the time, Dominic. I almost called you Donovan Tar. How about that? You know, Donovan. I would never, ever in a million. years compare you to Donovan Tar. You are on a whole other level, my friend. Thank you for the time. What did you make of T.J. Dillashaw's performance on Saturday? T.J. did what he needed to do to beat, you know, Borough. I think stylistically, nine out of ten times Dillishaw beats Barow, no matter what, just because of the style

matchup. I mean, Delshaal knew what he needed to do to offset a conventional striking counter-striking brawl and he did it. So he did his job to look sharp on that night. Do you think this win, this second win for Dillishal over Braow signifies the fact that Brow should move up? Are you seeing something in his game that's telling you that this guy is hurting himself by fighting at 135? No, I don't see that.

I think he'll be very successful. I think that the sports evolving and the guys who aren't choosing to evolve with the sport are getting beaten. I never thought Borow was as good as everybody said he was, but I couldn't say that because I've been on the sidelines, and Dana White was preaching about him like he's the next Jesus

and coming. So you just kind of got to hear what Dana says and let him say what he wants about people to build the 135 pound division. With me gone, let's face it, they needed to build anybody they could in that slot. Barow was the guy that needed to be built because I wasn't there. And then when TJ came up,

now he's the guy that's got to be built because I'm not that being said, the division's just been trying to strive and build with me gone. Now that I'm coming back, it can get back on its feet again. That's the truth. Which T.J. impressed you more, the one at 173 or the one on Saturday, because he fought a different fight, right? He did not. He did not. He did not fight a different fight. He fought the exact same fight. The only difference is, T.J. is getting more comfortable figuring out who he is. The truth in this whole matter is T.J. didn't know he was a champion until he beat Barrow.

Then he beats Barow and says, wow, I'm a champion. I didn't know that. Then he goes on and he beats Joe Soto. Then he's like, oh, well, maybe I do belong here. Then he goes back and he beats Barow again. Yes, I belong here. So what's happened is you saw the first fight with Barrow, and then you saw transformation in Dilshal

where he's starting to move into his position as champion, starting to believe it into himself, getting comfortable in his own skin out there, you know, doing some showboating, listening to Bruce Buccker say his name, all that stuff is getting comfortable in his own skin. And that's what made the fight look different. It was not the style at all or the way that he fought at all.

It's just his comfort level is in there, I believe. But did you think he moved a little less? He switched stances a little less. It felt like he was a little more uniform in that sense. He fought more, he fought in his South Paul stance more than anything. But what won this fight was the race. Burrow's never willing to race. Once he gets hit, he's looking for that big counter shot,

because he doesn't want to step in and get hit again when he's trying to be offensive. Every time he tried to be offensive, Dilshael wasn't there, so frustrated ten into miss. Then when he starts missing, Delshaw and starts looking for counters because he knows if he counters Dillishaw, he knows where he'll be. The problem is you can't counter somebody who faint and who switches stance because after they faint in a conventional stance and then switch to South Pole, now the counter that you thought was there when you're fighting a conventional fighter has now switched. to South Pole, so the counter you were looking for is no longer there. That kept Hennon-Barrell out completely offset the whole fight, and that will always work against Hennon-Brown, no matter who you are.

What's it like watching a T.J. Dillishaw fight in 2015 or late 2014, alongside Dominic Cruz. Are you like, this guy's biting my style? This is the junior me. How do you react to what you see in his fights? I see absolutely no similarities between my fighting style and T.J. Dillisaw. And the reason I say that is we do different things. He's switching stance and I'm not.

I'm doing something totally different that nobody understands. I don't know if you remember this, Ariel, but you could have watched my fights and listen to the commentary on my fight four years ago. And when I was doing things, it was awkward, hirky jerky, never seen before. It was just weird. I got this weird style that doesn't make sense. Now four years has gone by. People can get a degree in four years. So the game has changed in the last four years.

Now you're hearing the commentary of T.J. Dill saw moving his feet, using faints and switching stance. And instead of being awkward, different, and weird, it's beautiful to everybody else. So the point is, the sport is evolving. People are starting to see the use of switching stance, the use of faints, the use of angles, the use of moving, the use of amazing people miss, the use of footwork. That's happened over the last four years since I've been out. Now, my style is being appreciated. When I go out there, people will see T.J. Dilshaw is nothing but I want to be.

And I look forward to going out there and proving that I'm the best in the world. I'm in an extremely awkward position, Ariel, where you can only talk so much and only be so confident on the outside where people are going to listen to you when you can't go out there and compete. So there's only so much I can really say, you know. I have to sit on my words right now. I have to sit on my hands because I'm in. injured. And that's all you ever hear from Twitter. Yeah, keep talking, Dominic, as you sit on the sidelines. You're nothing but a, you know, a hurt individual. These are the things that people are saying. So this is the way that the general public is thinking when I talk. That being said,

I'm very careful with the words that I choose because I can't go in there and compete quite yet. T.J. Dilschall is out there competing. So kudos to him for staying healthy and being able to keep the division rolling. When I come back, you know, the real fights are going to. get started and people are going to see what this division is really capable of with me as the champion. How difficult is it to hear people say, oh, he's like Dominic, to hear people say, oh, you know, stop talking, you're injured, to see TJ walking around with that belt now, defeating brow, people saying he's the best bant of winning the world. How difficult is all this? Really, I don't really take much advice or I don't really take much, like when people make a statement about me

or when people make it a comparison, they don't know what they're comparing. Like I said, four years ago when I used this style, nobody knew what it was. I had coaches, I had Joe Rogan, I had all these people saying that it was just awkward and weird. Now it's a style because T.J. Dill Shal took faint footwork and switching stance from the style that I created. Those are the only three things he took from it. Now it's become something that's respectable. So I got to say, it's a good thing T. T.J. went out there and kept fighting and kept getting famous and kept winning, because now, when I come back, I have a match.

I had cleaned out the division four years ago. Yeah. Completely cleaned it out. And it hasn't changed. Ariel, the division really has not changed much. Uriah Faber could have the title right now, but he's scared to fight T.J. and get beat by him. So he's just going to stay in that miscellaneous floating area. And then you have Alps in Al who's hurt.

So really, it's just in Borough and T.J. that are there to fight. fought those two, but other than that, I've beaten almost everybody else in the division, or they've dropped to 125 pounds. So where do we stand right now? End of July 2015. When do you think you'll be 100% and ready to fight? You know, my goal right now, Errol, I'm feeling really good. I just literally finished my strength workout here at SSL with Gavin McMillan.

I'm still working with him on my strength stuff for getting strong and stability, and I'm looking to me back at the New Year. That's my goal. The New Year is my goal. Either that first New Year card or the one before it, If my knees not feeling good by then, then I'll push it back. But the truth is, I don't need to say it at an exact date because I have nothing that I need to hold up on. You know, I'm not the champion right now.

Right. I'm not in the top five rankings right now. I don't have anything that people are waiting for to try to take from me except my fame. So when I come back, the only thing TJ is looking for is my fame to bite off it because nobody believes he's champion right now. I mean, they think he's good, but they don't believe he's. his champion, and that's why they couldn't sell the fight in Chicago. The gate was terrible in Chicago with Henne and T.J. Dilshaw. They couldn't sell it.

One, they knew that it was a perfect matchup for T.J. Two, they know that T.J. is just using things that I've used to be successful. He admitted that. And three, they knew that that was a perfect style matchup for T.J. against Hennon Burrow to give him another win under his belt. If you look at the wins that T.J. has had, he doesn't know if he's a champion in Ariel.

he has to fight me to believe that. The reason is he only beat Henan Burrell. That's the only guy in the top five he's beaten. He lost to Austin Sal. Austin Sal was in the top five when he lost to him. He lost to John Docton when John Docton was in the top five. And now he's only beaten Henan Barraal. Then he beat Joe Soto, who's now, I think he might be, is he even in the UFC anymore?

Well, he did lose his last fight, but I don't know if he got cut. There you go. So that's my point. He hasn't fought anybody to be a champion. T.J. Delshaw still needs to fight somebody as good as me to even believe in himself. He has no clue what he's facing, and he has no clue what a champion, what it is to face a real champion, because he got given the opportunity for me being hurt. Cannon was already an interim belt holder, and then he beat the interim belt holder to think he's champion?

I don't think so. He's lucky I've been hurt. I asked T.J. about you on the post-fight show. I want to play you what he said and get your response, okay? Okay. Here it is. Are we going to see you versus Dominic Cruz next? Is that what you want? Because he was tweeting about it tonight. As long as he stays healthy, you know, I mean, I don't know if he can.

You know, I mean... You're worried? Yeah, absolutely, man. I mean, he keeps training. He keeps getting injured, but... Tell him. Tell him. He'll that chicken leg up and let's get after him.

But is that the fight you want in a perfect world? Yeah, absolutely, man. I mean, he's the guy that used to be the champ and went out on top due to injury. And I definitely feel that I could beat the guy. You know, I'm a lot more of a harder hit. He likes a footwork, but I'm going to hit him a lot harder. You know, I'm going to beat the guy up. What did you make of that?

Well, I mean, he can say all that. That's the same stuff that everybody said. What does favor say? He doesn't hit hard. I'm going to beat him up. I'm going to cut him off and take it from me. He didn't do none of that. What did Scott Jorgensen say?

I'm going to outrestle him. I'm a better D-1 wrestler. He doesn't hit hard. I'm going to cut off the cage and beat him. What did Joseph Benavita say? I'm going to switch dance. I throw switch kicks. I'm going to throw high kicks.

I mix in my wrestling. I've got a good teeth. I'm going to submit him and I'm going to knock him out. What did Demetrius Johnson say? I'm going to keep him moving backwards. I'm going to cut off the cage. I'm going to switch dance. I'm going to keep moving.

I'm going to knock him out. He doesn't hit hard. What's T.J. Dilschaw saying? I hit harder. I'm going to knock him out. He thinks he's champion. He's not. It's all the same stuff, Ariel.

This guy doesn't even know what he's talking about. He learned the style that he's won a championship with by watching me fight. He learned from me. Just like you see kids dunking the basketball with their tongue out trying to be Michael Jordan. You see T.J. Dillshaw trying to switch stance, trying to look like Dominique Cruz. That's all there is to it. He needs me to be who he is. The bottom line is, I make his career worth anything.

I'm the only fight he needs to be worth anything. So he should be thanking me for being out as long as I have because it's given him a chance to have a spotlight. Otherwise, he just still be the least of alphas at his team alpha-fail team. after he loses to me, he will be basically the alpha male of team alpha fail. I will have beaten him all.

I look forward to that day. So he can make fun of my chicken legs and he could sell this stuff, but I can't help injuries. Trust me, I'd much rather be stacking up money like he is fighting, you know, interim champions. But I'm hurt.

I'm on the outside, giving him pointers on how to beat these guys on Fox Sports 1, and he's learning. So I look forward to getting in there and fight, Ariel. And the truth is, I hit my hat to him because he's been able to get in there and keep the ball rolling at 135 pounds. But he just can't beat me, man. He just doesn't understand.

He's never fought somebody who he can't hit. He talks about the power he has. I have 80% striking defense. I don't even know what his is, but I promise you it's lower than mine. And that's going to be the difference in this fight is the fact that he cannot hit me no matter what. Don't care how strong he is. He won't hit me. So I guess there's no need to ask you about Bang Ludwig saying earlier in the show that he's going to knock you out in the second round.

No, it doesn't mean anything because Dwayne Ludwig is the same guy who told Benavides, just keep going forward on Demetrius Johnson. He doesn't sit down on his punches. He can't knock you out. What happened to Benavita? He got knocked out. And that's because Dwayne Ludwig told him, don't worry about Demetri's Johnson knocking you out. Just go forward.

He doesn't hit hard. Dwayne Ludwig could learn something for me. I could be Dwayne Ludwig's coach. That's straight up. And so could Eric Delferro. So he is smart. The smartest thing T.J. Dilshaal ever did was leave team AlfaMail because he's not going to be able to do nothing with those guys.

Ludwig already said that. He already told Alphamil that. They got all sad and started crying about it on Twitter. But I see the same thing that Dwayne Ledwig does, and that's what T.J. Dilshaw sees also, and that's why he's not at alpha male training anymore. He's up in Colorado. Well, he is doing a little bit there, but I get your point.

Yeah, so, I mean, that's what I'm trying to say is he's talking about that, but how do you knock somebody out who doesn't get hit? Let me ask you this final thing. Perfect World. I've heard some theories thrown out, oh, you should get a warm-up fight, you've been out, this, and when you're 100%, you want the title shot, right? Of course.

No more. Yeah. Mizuggoxie, when I came back after that, I was out three years. I was two ACL injuries and a torn quad, three injuries back to back to back. So after that, I just wanted to make sure I could get in the role of things. That was three years. This one has been nine months. You see, that's nothing compared to three years.

This will be a cakewalk compared to what I went through before. I eat ACL surgeries for breakfast, man. This is nothing. I'll be coming back, strong as ever looking just as sharp as I did against Mizugaki, and I'll be winning my belt back. And when I win it, it's not going to be for me anymore. It's going to be for everybody who thinks that people are counting them out. That win is going to be for everybody who says, you know, you can't do something.

Just all you have to do is believe you can do it yourself. That's the only thing you have to do is just believe that you can do it. And then all everybody else says is just a bunch of crap. Dwayne Ludwig talking a bunch of nonsense about knocking me out. He doesn't know anything. Have you heard him on an interview? He's stuttering the whole time. The guy's been hitting his head too much already.

the bottom line is these guys don't understand what I bring to the table they don't understand the style I bring they don't understand any of it they think they do but everything is a trap I'm going to trap TJ and he's going to get slept sweet mother Mary

wow Dominic I have missed you I have missed this Dominic this is this is amazing stuff I said earlier on the show this is the fight this is the best stylistic fight that the UFC could put on and it's one of the most interesting fascinating fights that, you know, I mean, it just doesn't get any better than this. And now you've made me

want to, I would pay all the money to watch this fight. Wow, you have just gotten me so damn excited for this. I wish we were January right now. Amazing. I love the fire. I wish you nothing but the best. I can't wait until you return to your 100%. As I said on the show, I'm praying to the MMA gods. Everything goes all well with you and that you can't come back and we can finally see this thing. Thank you so much for coming on. I know you're probably tired after PT. I really truly appreciate it and I wish you the best, my friend. You know, Ariel, I just want to say one last thing to everybody who, you know, agrees with TJ, agrees with all these guys saying, you know, Dominic's just going to get injured again.

I can't control that at all. I'm working as hard as I can to be a world champion and I'm doing everything I can to make that happen. I'm training safe as I can and I'm doing everything I can. So that's all I'm going to continue to do. I will get in there healthy and the bottom line is I always follow through with my word. If there's anything you can look back at throughout my career, it's when I say something, I do it.

So keep a lookout because I'm going to school T.J. Dilshawn. He's going to stay number two. Wow. Love it. Thank you, Dominic. I appreciate it. Thanks, guys. Have a good one.

Wow. Holy moly. Dominic Cruz. That was unbelievable. I have never heard Dominic Cruz like that. Have you ever heard him like that? I'm just throwing that out there. Feel free to respond.

I have never heard Dominic Cruz like that. That was unbelievable. See, the thing about Dominic is he can talk smack, he can say, but this guy is so smart, analytical that when he talks smack, he's also kind of breaking it down for you as well. He's not just saying, like, I'm going to knock you out, period. He actually kind of, you know, like he's just such a great mind, one of the very best as far as TV analysts are concerned.

And he just, I mean, you just feel a lot dumber as far as your MMA knowledge is concerned, but it's just you just eat it up. I've never, I've been interviewing Dominic Cruz for a long time. I have never heard him like that before. Is it January yet? Wow. Think about that buildup. Forget about the rivalry with Alpha Male.

I mean, wow. Could you imagine watching a Dilashov fight and listening to the commentators compare him to Cruz, sitting next to Cruz, listening to that? Wow. I don't even smoke. I've never put a cigarette to my lips, ever in my life. I need a cigarette after that.

Amazing. There's one guest that in the five and a half years of doing this show that we have been unable to get on the air. One guest, there's only one name left. And he joins us right now. Nate Diaz is live on the MMAR right now. Nate, are you there? Yeah, hey, what's up.

Hey, Nate, how are you? What a pleasure this is. I'm good. How are you doing? I'm doing great. It's great to have you on the show. It's great to finally have you on the show. I know you're a big fan of the show, big fan of talking to us. So thank you very much for the time today. Let's get into it. There's a lot to talk to you about. We were just talking about it at the beginning of this with Mark Coleman. He was very excited about Matt Brown versus Nate Diaz. I spoke to you a little bit about this last week. Are you going to fight Matt Brown at UFC 189? Oh, I don't know. I haven't talked to anybody about the fight. I haven't been negotiated. I'm waiting to find out. Can you explain to me what exactly happened there?

Because, you know, we came out... What in Mark Coleman today? Would he punch about the fire? Do you want me get my ass-case to let? What's his thought? Well, truth be told, he's a big Columbus, Ohio guy. So he was excited about Matt Brown. He said he's very close to Matt Brown.

He says he talks to him and watches him all the time. So he was excited about that fight. He was excited about the matchup and all that. He sounds like he's a Matt Brown guy, but he only had nice things to say. It wasn't like he was rooting for you. to fail or anything like that. No, no, I feel you in the same area, probably.

Yeah, yeah. But can you explain what exactly happened here? Because it came out, it was announced all that stuff, and then you told me that you never agreed to it. So how was it announced? What happened? Yeah, no. Well, I was told that the Brown fight we talked about,

but they were supposed to work out a deal and figure it all out and negotiate the fight the next Monday. all of a sudden, I never necessarily okayed the fight. The fight was never negotiated, so I knew all of a sudden it was like, I was getting blown up about the fight. So I think that it's a, that's a great fight, you know, everybody would want to see that fight. I would have just a fight, I would have been,

that sounds like an awesome fight, like a fight to see, but he's never talked about and, I don't appreciate it. being um it's kind of like it's like I'm being like forced into a fight you know

and should I talk to and tell it fairly so the fight like I said the fight was never negotiated I just heard about it just like everybody else kind of blown out of proportion

so but I like the fight sounds good sounds great I don't like the circumstances in the fight I think I deserve better, and he deserves better than to be on the undercard and to be on these big game's big contribution to Mr. Conner McGregor's pocket.

I think that they're talking about him blowing up all these records of being the highest paper-gree draw and the highest watch fighter probably because I'm putting. me and Matt Brown on the undercard and Robbie Lawler on the undercard like I don't think that I think

Bobby Lawler should have a little more about that too being on the undercard and have a of a card like that but

I don't know I do he probably works out good for him so I think I think it's going to be a great card and I think if I'm going to

fight a great starting fight where a lot of people are going to tune in to see me, fight someone like Matt Brown is a great part of too. I think that it should be working a little more towards our end of the deal that everybody else is, but that makes any sense.

So are you saying you would prefer to be the main event? Do you feel like that fight is big enough to be a main event? You don't want to be on sort of, I don't know if you're on the undercard per se, but below a Connor McGregor fight? Yeah, well, that's what I mean. Like, I don't, I mean, I'm okay. being on the other cards and stuff and whatever, but that's definitely a main event car fight right there,

especially, especially, especially, with the fight card that had been going on, so it's ridiculous. I just, you know, they're making a humongous card, and, like I said, benefiting the main event, and I don't got nothing against the many things. That's great for them, but there's a certain chance that I'm talking about. They've never negotiated. No one ever told me what, where, when, and how,

I just heard maybe Matt Brown, maybe Anthony Petish. Anthony Petit. He hasn't been. He just said some about fighting me. I've been talking about fighting him for a long time. I don't care whether it's Matt Brown. Because Matt Brown is a big fight. Pettys is a big fight.

And either of the fight I'm looking for is big fights and exciting fights. I'm not into fighting boring people, fighting boring fights and being on boring tech cards, which this one wouldn't be, but I would like to know a little bit more about what I'm doing instead of just, you know, being strong-armed into a fight. You know, I don't need to hear that I'm fighting this guy now

before it even negotiated work out. And now I'm saying, no, that fight is not official, and now it's like I'm the guy, like, not getting a fire, pulling out of a fight, but it's safe. That's not the situation at all, because I like the fight. I just would like to be appreciated a little better and make sure stuff's confirmed before it's blown out of proportion.

And so when we spoke about this briefly on Thursday, I mean, that was what, like, four or so days ago. Has anything changed? Has anything happened since then? Has anyone reached out to you and tried to clear the air? Where do we stand right now with the fight? That's what I'm saying. I haven't documented anybody.

Still? Still. Yeah. Man, if I haven't been, they just have the, you know, they have the push power. They say I'm fighting as I'm fighting now, so I don't think so. You know, it don't work like that. Maybe with all these other guys out here, but I think that, you know, like Ariel, if you're going to fight somebody next Saturday,

I'm not going to just say that you're going to fight somebody. I seem to be sure of them. I'm going to probably call you and make sure you can show up, right? Right. Talk about it. I don't have it. I haven't. But if it was dealt with probably in the circumstances were better,

then I'm all aboard. You know, that'd be great. Especially with a fighter like that. You know, those are the fucking trying to fight. I'm trying to fight a guy like Mount Brown and Anthony Pettish, who I thought was probably going to be the guy who's fighting. He just lost. He just lost, too, you know, one's the top guys. And I'm not going to just fight somebody to be, like, having a good old time, when time go by and fight people, you know.

I think it should work out to my benefit and that benefit. And I think I thought with those guys would benefit me. and I think if I would benefit them. So if I could get it worked out, that would be great. If you had it your way, if you could choose, which fight interests you more right now? The Pettus fight, you know, you guys have had your differences for the last couple of years or the Brown fight.

I know last year you said you were interested in fighting him as well. But if you had a perfect scenario for you, would you rather Pettus at 155 or Brown at 170 next? See, the reason I talked about Brownlock here, too, is because I've watched his fights. I've been watching him a long time. He's been around for a good amount of time, and he's an entertaining fighter.

He's one of the best guys is to watch in the O.C., so I'm like, if I'm going to fight somebody, it's going to be someone like that. And it's going to be someone like Petit. You also do the good things, you know. To me, I think, I mean, if I'm going to fight anybody, you know, money talks, I think it needs to be worth my while to go out there and fight these guys.

And if not, then, you know, I'd rather just, I don't really have time these bullshit around and fire my life away like this, you know. I think whatever fight would be great, but whatever makes a little more sense and the circumstances of the fight, you know. You know, we last saw you in December against RDA. It came out after that you were injured going into the fight. Does a part of you almost regret going through with it because, you know, it didn't look like yourself.

You misweight, all that stuff. You had to go through the whole thing where, you know, there was, it seemed like some differences with the UFC and all that. I mean, it just didn't seem like a very enjoyable weekend in Phoenix for you. Do you regret going through the fight? Yeah, well, that's the same thing that happened with this Matt Brown thing was the same thing that happened with the last fight. It's never really, you know.

It was just kind of like, you're fighting. I'm like, oh, well, I guess I'm fighting. So it's kind of like, it's all good. That's the fact that it already happened. And I guess I'm not end up being tricked in the fighting anymore. You know what I think I should have a little more standing. I'm older now. And I'm, like I said, if I'm going to fight,

I think it should be worth of my while, not just because they're fighting. not fighting. Do you want to fight these days more at 170 so you don't have to make that cut to 155 anymore? If it's worth it, I'll fight at 55. Okay, okay. I don't have anybody to fight up at 55.

I fought everybody. It's different between me and the whole lightweight division. I fight everybody. It's gone on nine years now. Yeah. I've been in the U.S. few longer than everyone in there. Probably a whole year of view right now. Like, probably Diego Sanchez and Grace and Chabal.

You know, those are the only guys I could think of that have been in there longer than me. So I got probably the most fights in the UFC, got anybody in the UFC right now. And if I'm going to cut out that way and get down to the small side, which I could do, it's got to be worth it. And I think I only have two people to fight, a 55 knock you up in any prejudice. And Rapido Farnia is because I lost to him.

And all, you know, if he loses, then we could fight too. I'm not trying to hunt down how bad. They don't mean nothing to me. I want to get my losses, my loss off. I want to get that back. And Anthony Predis, you know, he's been around. He's been doing his thing lately, you know. It could be a little more active and quit, you know.

He could be a little more active, and I think that would be the fight people want to see. So that's what I would drop wait for you, you know. No interest in the belt at all. That won't be a belt means, but I don't mean much to me. I think, like I say, I want to fight and fight that matter, you know. But the, you know, some boring-ass fighter has a belt. I don't want to fight that. I don't want to fight.

People want to see. And if I'm not going to fight in those fights, then I'm not going to be fighting, you know. But some might say that maybe the belt will lead to. to like sponsorship or better contracts, you know, more money, all that stuff. You don't view it that way? Yeah, it might be, but, you know, but whatever, you know. Like, if I could fight, well, I feel the Sonios or, well, I want to fight just on you. So that's a bad one.

But it's, uh, if there's some boring motherfucker holding the belt or, and, and, and, any prejudice or Dosanos and I'm going to fight them, you know. Right. Rather than a boring person with the belt. Because if I have any boring fights on my record, then it's probably because those people I was fighting with boring fighters, you know, so I don't want any more boring fights in my career, you know. They shall be and go strong with some good fights.

How many more years do you want to do this for, fights? I mean, I'm wondering if you still enjoy, the whole thing as much as you did when you first started? Um, you know, I just want to, I just want to get, get done when I got it to get done. I want to, you know, I don't know. I haven't, I don't even, I don't think about it. I just want to, want to have a good opportunity, I hope. I want, I want to, if not, I'm not going to just fight, just, uh, because,

I feel like I've already fought enough to just fight because, you know? Mm-hmm. So, so, so that's good, good fights. whenever. I'm sure I'll be around. How it'll be for longer than most of the fighters, you know. By the way, I think a lot of people might not know this. Just a few rows of back of Ronda Rousey when she was at WrestleMania set. You and Gilbert Melendez. You were at

WrestleMania. What was that like? Yeah, the WrestleMania was cool. You enjoyed it? Yeah, Gilbert hit me up. He's like, let's go to WrestleMania. I never been there. I did actually want to kill and saw. The Lederatoraker. when I was a kid here in Stockton, there was a show,

and I went to check it out, and I haven't been since then. So we went there, and I didn't know it was that crazy at the show. Saw Travis Barker out there, and a whole bunch of Rodder Rousie, a whole bunch of other people, so I had a good time. Did you know that Ronda was going to go into the ring and all that? I didn't know that, no. Did you like it? Did you enjoy it? It was crazy.

Yeah, it was crazy. we just saw it at high in seven and they were like 200 kids or the rain show that's pretty crazy okay so I will let you go because I know you're busy man and I got to say I really appreciate you coming on the show here last minute where do we go from here for those wondering like you know because I'm getting questions right now so you know what's going to happen where do we go from here with the fight are you waiting to speak to the UFC do you want them to call you how do we how do we fix this situation Yeah, I don't know.

If someone got a hold of me, that'd be great. And if not, it's all good, too, you know. I don't need to fight. Like I said, I don't need to fight my life away. I'm all good with not fighting. So if we want to work that out, it'd be great. And if not, I'll be watching and tuning in fights and making sure everything is going good

and taking some time off of boxing. But as far as your concern right now, according to you, you're not fighting Matt Brown at UFC 189. Yeah, no. Just hanging out. So I talk to somebody. Okay. Nate.

But I think like, like, what would you guys want? What would people want to see? What do you want to see, Matt Brown, if not? If not. Yeah. Not man. So would you like to see a fight? That's a good question.

There ain't nobody to fight. There's nobody to fight. can fight me or he could fight Joe Blow, I won 70. It benefits him. It benefits him. I'm looking. Who do you want to see Anthony Pettish? If not by me, who do you want to see him fight? Well, that was the thing. I was kind of thinking, I wasn't expecting you to go up to 170, so I was kind of set on you versus Pettus because there's been that whole thing for so long. I feel like Pettus has more options at 155 because he hasn't fought as many of the guys.

Brown has been around a little longer. I feel like he has less options. Who's the type is going to fight? Who do you want to fight? Maybe. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. If, if, if, Saroni beats Nirmagamedov,

probably Nirmagamadeov because they've had some differences lately. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah, see? But, so, Soroni already beat.

Yeah. Magamato. That's boring. He's either going to knock out a Russian dude a Russian dude's gonna hold on tight and have a wrong boring fight. There's not much going on, you know?

So it's like... You're not a fan of your Magamatov, right? No, I'm not. I'm not a fan of boring fighters at all. Right. I think he's gonna probably beat DeSanos. Maybe, I think, Desanos is a better fighter.

But, uh, I think, uh, but, uh, like, who wants to do that shit? Yeah. I know that. And then there's Dostani. He didn't lose. He'll probably fight.

Pettists don't ever want to fight those songs again. That's obvious. I heard him on your show talking about it. You listen to the show. Yeah, I listen to that one. Thank you. And, I mean, I don't think a lot of them, but I listen to that one recently.

And so Matt Brownie, I don't be a fight. And then anybody, man, like I'm telling you, there's nobody first any of these motherfuckers to fight. I want to fight somebody and want to get used. Hey, take my record, too. I got more, uh, more, uh, higher, higher, uh, higher, uh,

we get higher views on the fight, then any of these, any of these motherfuckers, uh, they're saying that, uh, car McGregor is going to blow these, these paper views out of the water or whatever.

I've been usually, final, but I come out a box, but I have, like, four, like three million, two, two and a three million,

like, hella high, uh, tune in my fight, so, if these guys want to fight, some of them, they need to get them points.

They need to take real fights with me. and besides me, there's no other, there's nobody other people to fight, you know. So, Kamagreb keeps talking about coming up and find, um, keeps coming up and talking about coming up and finding them find them. I don't know what that can be for him. That guy,

that guy's got like 10 followers with some shit. So, these guys want some real fights, then they can call and work it out and so I can figure it out. I'm going to fight. It's the way it can be worth it. Did you see when Connor took Aldo's belt?

What do you think of that? Holy shit. I was like, what are you talking about? Addo's fucked up. His team's fucking up, all those, you know? Why? Because, like, let me tell you, if I had a partner of buying somebody like that,

and they were gonna, he'd make sure when this guy gets up in your face, he smacked the outside of the floor. You know what I'm saying? You don't let somebody get. Or just laugh at him, like, he got an,

he got all been out of shit when the guy took his belt. He should have just, he should have laughed at him. But I keep the belt, saying about your ass whooping, you know. I don't let him happen. And you take that home and put me on. You know, I think it was, hey, Connor McGregor, he's doing his thing. You know, he's doing a good job with that.

And I'm not hating on him. I think he's doing a great job marking himself. Everybody's forgotten who the champion already because of his shit, you know, the McGregor show. Does it still blow your mind, by the way, at this point that you're, You're still, you're not ranked, you're not in the top 15 in the UFC rankings? Yeah, they did bat on math because I was number, well, I was number three, I was number four when they told me from the rankings. Yeah.

And number four. So I beat Graham-Manor when he was number three. So I was number four. And then they told me from the rankings, because they didn't like some stuff I said. So they pulled me from the rankings. And then I got back in the fight that's on there. And he was number three. so then when I lost number three

when I was I was number four before they pulled me out so when I lost to him then that should probably make me a number five or six instead I'm just wiped away and gone I think that's just back back

yeah something like that I don't know it's kind of strange to me yeah you don't you don't really you don't lose a lot of sleep over the rankings that I would imagine I don't care

a lot of stuff that goes on doesn't make any sense anyway So, I think that, like I said, I think they should try to do something and, you know, make fights people want to see. Not no bullshit, right?

So, I'm ready to fight, I'm ready to fight, though, when the good opportunity comes, then it's worth of a while until they're all good in the summertime, try, at the long season just started. Thanks, Brady's last week with my brother.

How'd you do? I did all right. I'm in a new division now. I knew age group, so I'm in an age group with a lot of tougher races. This next couple years, so I've got to step it out and pick up the pace, and that's my goal this year to do better in the travel on circuit. My coach, Damien Gonzalez, he's going to work for me and call me, and he's like, he gets getting hit and she don't even get no attention to fight stuff.

He's talking about getting in there and racing. doing good in the season, so that's my objective for right now, if I'm not going to be fighting. Even if I am fighting, that's what I'm going to be doing. By the way, do you think your brother will fight again? My brother? Yeah. I have no clue. We'll have to see. I don't know what's going on with him.

His deals or his... Who would he fight right now? Silver, right? If there, anything. Again? Well, didn't they talk about him Popper steroids? Yeah, that's true. Well, I thought Nick won that fight.

You know, a lot of people got he won that fight. That is true. That is messed up. Yeah. Kind of, yeah, I forgot about it. If anything, no, and be anything that nothing else really makes too much chance. For that, maybe.

Just keep talking about coming back sometime, I think. Yeah, it seems up in the air. If anything, yeah, he's up in the air, Nick's up in the air, Silver's up in the air, so who knows, I don't know. I can't see anything on his behalf of him. Sure, sure. No, I understand. Wow.

See what happened. By the way, you know, Matt Brown tweeted a photo of a signed contract. You don't have one of those, right? I don't have no contract. That's what I'm saying? Yeah. I don't have a contract. I got a phone call.

I don't have any. I got the Internet. You know what I'm saying? So that's where I find out about most of them. And like, someone's not blowing me. I can text message. That I'm fighting, you know. I woke up to that.

Or glide. Or glide, right? Or glide. I love the glide. You know, I only glide with two people. I'm name dropping here, but I feel like I can. Yeah. You and your bro.

It's great. I love it. I wish more people would use it. You guys should get paid by glide. No. Oh, yeah, that's a great way for communication. I can't. They should pay you guys.

They should pay you guys because you're such great ambassadors for the app. for glide, huh? I think my brother has a fan fan glide. He has like some sort of VIP account or something, right? Yeah, because I'm gliding him the other day.

And he's like, hey, my fuck just stop riding me on my, on my, on my, on my, what is it, fan pay or,

yeah, fan pay glide or whatever. And I was like, yeah, well, you got the same picture, so I'm confused and I didn't know if it was his.

So I don't know if people could see that or what, but he's like, bradman on the other one said, deleted it. fan one because I was talking a whole bunch of people I think instead of him.

Okay, let me ask you this. Rockhold Machita, who do you got? I don't know. Let's watch a friend. Okay. See what happens. Okay, fair enough. Will you be watching? I like California. I like

California and people better. You know, but they're both Californian, though, these days at least, but I get what you're saying. That's Rockhold. Yeah, but I don't I don't care. We'll see what having it, hopefully it's a good fight.

You watch fights? Do you go out of your way to watch fights? Nowadays you can't go out of your way because they're all in your face, but yeah, watch what's going on. Okay. You follow it. Yeah, for sure. All right. Well, I wish you the best, Nate. It's been boring, huh? I don't think so.

It had its ups and downs. Sometimes. That's a good way of putting it. You know what doesn't have its ups and downs? This show, which I just found out. you watch and enjoy. How about that? Are you on the show? Might be watching you? Do people watch the show?

Yeah. I think so. I mean, like a lot, a lot of people? I think so, yeah. I think we're pretty popular. It's been going on for five and a half years and we've never had you on. We had your brother on in November. And, no, December? November? Yeah. But never had you. You're the last one left. Name the fighter. We've had them on this show. Never had you. At least like the big name fighters.

Oh. Nice. I feel like that's a feather in your cap, like you were the last one. Yeah. All right, I gotta go. People are watching this. I know. I'm gonna go. Okay, fine, fair enough.

Nate, all the best. All right, you have a good one. Okay, thank you, Nate. Talk to you soon. All right, shit. Nate Diaz. How about that? He is the one and only.

George St. Pierre. George, how are you? Hi, Ariel. I'm doing great. How are you doing today? I'm doing very well, fantastic, thanks. Well, thank you so much for joining us. You seem out of breath.

Were you just working out? Yeah, no, but I had to jump in the shower, and then I had no signal where I was. I'm sorry, I'm a little bit late. Nope. So I have to go up, come upstairs, and some people were asking me for picture and stuff, so I had to get free, and now I'm calling you. No problem at all, George. We'll wait all day for you.

So it is an honor to have you on the program. Let's get right into it. You know, I've noticed, you know, you kind of come and go as far as media is concerned, but over the last week or so, you've talked to some people, some French outlets, some Canadian outlets, Chill Sun and you're on his podcast. Is there a reason why we're hearing more of you over the last week or so? Well, I have nothing really much to say, you know. I just, I guess, with everything that happened, Ronda Rosie, lost their fight,

maybe my movie coming up, Kickboxer, and I guess, as Freddie Roach made some comments about possibility of if I would like to go back fighting. I need it. It would be a good idea to do a six-week training camp. I think that's why. Yeah. So let's talk about that because he came on our show and confirmed that. Was he sort of speaking at a turn there?

Did he kind of put the cart before the horse? It sounds like, from what I've heard, that you're not really considering doing this. It might happen, but it's not a definite. Is that right? I know, I heard what he said. He didn't say it was defendant too, you know. The reporters does their job. They want to, you know, they want to have the, they want to bring the scoop, you know, for the news.

He didn't say nothing wrong. He said, we had to talk with each other. Yeah, he told me, so, George, will you think of coming back? He said, if you think of coming back, I think you should do a six-week training camp. And I said to him that if I ever fight again, I won him. my corner. Otherwise, I would not come back. I needed him. And he's a big part of my game now. And I think he's the best in the world, had what he does. And I want to be more involved, him to be more involved with me if it's done. Why did you make that decision? Why do you feel

like it's best for you to have him in your corner if you do come back? No, I feel the difference when I train with Freddie. I feel my footwork, my day. My day. distance control, my power, the punches, power, my hands, everything gets better. I try to transform myself more into it. I'm from Karate's background and I try to transform myself more into a more Thai stylist. I think Karatee, I should say with Karatee and boxing, I think that's what works. That's what works the best for me. He also said that if you do this six-week training camp, it will be in L.A. at Wildcard.

He'll be overseeing it. And that was surprising considering, you know, where you're from, Montreal and your gym TriStar. Is that true? I don't know if he says that. When we talk about it, I told him I want him to be involved. Of course, I'm going to come in L.A., but I want him to come in Montreal. We'll see. It's nothing, you know, one thing for sure is now I want to, you know, with all those years of training, you know, I never spend really much, you know, like New Year's and all the holiday time with my family and

I never had, because I was always on the Super Bowl card. I was always training, so I couldn't really enjoy my time. So now I want to, one thing for sure, I want to have a nice, nice holidays with my family and friends, enjoy it, party, have fun. As I'm training, of course. But if I have to do it and try to do it, I'm going to do it after that, and after in 2016. Does the party you wish that you initially came out and said you're retired so that people like me would stop asking you? if you're coming back if you made a decision. The fact that you're kind of in and out

and you haven't said the R word, I feel like every interview I've seen of yours, every time you're making a public appearance, people ask you, are you coming back? Are you not? Do you almost regret the way it's been done? No, no, no, no, I don't. I don't even know myself.

It depends on a lot of things. And a lot of things, you know, like I said, I haven't made my decision. I don't have to make a decision yet because I don't know. You know, I'm not the kind of guy if I say I'm going to retire and come back and then make up like, you know, I don't, I don't like to do that. So I don't, I just don't know, you know, so.

Is there a part of you that says if I reach a certain age, then for sure I'm not coming back? Like, I have a deadline? It's not really the age. I think it's the physicality, how you feel as an athlete. And I feel the best I ever felt. You know, I just finished training. I feel more powerful in better shape than I ever felt. I feel smarter, sharper, and, you know, I feel great.

I also train for fun. I don't really train for performance right now, which is different. Right. But I feel the fun again. I used to do for so many years training for performance with, you know, the stress and the, you know, the pressure. So I kind of, with everything that I've happened, I kind of lost fun. So now I have fun again. And I needed this.

I needed this for a long time. When you sit down and watch big UFC fights, do you start to imagine, do you start to get that itch and say, ooh, what would it be like to go back in there? Can I do it again? Can I be champion? Has your mind started to think that way? Yeah, but it's always going to be there because I used to compete. It's always going to be like that. A part of me is thinking I have a lot more to lose than win. And another part of myself think we only live once, you know, so I don't want to be maybe at 80 years old and say, tell myself, oh, I should have done it. and I didn't, I should have done. A lot of things in life that I regret are, most I think in life that I regret the most are the thing that I haven't done. It's not the thing that I did, it's the thing that I haven't done. So there is prong and pros and cons, you know, to this. And, you know, I just don't know.

Your coach, Farah Zahabee said on this show, he thinks you have a lot of fight left in you. Freddie Roach said he thinks you're coming back. Why are all these people so close to you saying that you're coming? coming back, but you're not saying it. I tell you, I feel the best I ever feel. I look better now in training, inspiring and all that, that I ever looked. Even when I was competing at my best, I'm at my best.

I have more fire in me. I have more fun. I enjoy training and I'm more hungry. But the reason why we talk about this, that trying a training camp without fighting is because sometimes when you're in training camp you can be lethargic you know like if the lethargy

kicks in again and you still have you lost your edge and you fall into the same pattern feeling that when you were tired and not hungry you know that's a good indication that you need to stop that's not a good idea to go back that's why I believe

it would be smart if I plan to if I plan to It doesn't mean I wear. If I plan to come back, I won't tell nobody. I will do a training camp in secret, you know, and see how it goes. And, you know, it depends on what's going to also what's going to happen in UFC and a decision that people are going to make, get the results, a lot of stuff.

Depend on a lot of things. Last week you made headlines when you talked about the night of UFC 167, you were getting stitched up. Someone from the UFC said you don't have to go to the press conference. you said, no way, I'm going to the press conference. And you said if things... No, they didn't tell me, I didn't have to go. They told me to not go.

They didn't want me to move. They didn't want you to go. Is it... If they don't go, you're not allowed to go. That's what they say is from... I swear. Why do you think they said that? I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know at the time. Because I didn't know what was... What had been said. It's a story that I realized. They didn't have any description... Descripted. after my fight, like I didn't, you know, I didn't felt, you know, I had the result and I didn't

felt like I was pissing off people. I didn't felt, I didn't know what was going on, like this whole thing, like, Danawa was saying. And I'm, you know, I'm not angry at Dana. I talked to him and he do things for the best of his interest, and I do think for the best of my interest, and it was not in the best of his interest for the organization that the guy leave with the out. And I understand it was a close fight. You know, many people, you know, they argue, to my eyes, I review it many times. I thought I won one. In my corner told me I did won one, three, and five. So it didn't have any discrepancy in my, in my mind. I know after a fight, like a lot of fine people raised their hand and stuff. And, you know, I didn't feel it was like, I don't know if it's

the correct word, discrepancy. You know, I didn't feel any, anything. I didn't know nothing bad was going on until they say to me, oh, you're not allowed to go in press conference. Because I found it out, I find it that it was kind of weird. And I, because I was getting stiff. I waited for the doctor a long time. And I walked in, and I saw the reaction of people.

I was like, it's kind of weird. And it's all after when I reviewed the press conference when people told me what was going on that I realized, but I didn't know. Is it true that they took away your belt that night? Yes They came to take the belt And Christop

My friend He was angry Like I was getting stitched up I think And I don't mind the belt I mean It's a nice gift Every time

I win a new belt I used to give it As a gift to people That helped me I kept one The first one that I won I gave it to my mother The second one

I put it in my In my workout place And all the other belt that I gain, I gave it to either one of my trainer, one of the people that helped me, one of the guys that used to help me, I sponsor a long time ago, I always gave it to someone that is very important to me.

And yeah, they took the belt, yeah. But it's okay. It's only material. The importance for me is the memory that I kept from it, and this nothing can take it away from me. After the press conference, I believe you had a face-to-face meeting with, I think it was Dana and Lorenzo.

Can you tell us what was said in that meeting? Yes, I'll tell you, and I'll be straight to him. I'm not going to say name. I'm not going to tell you exactly what I said, but I was very pissed off, and I used a lot of F word and swearing. I'm sorry, and I was very angry because of the testing issue for the doping. They did not support me for the anti-doping, and I told them, I was like, why they didn't support me for this, and I didn't understand this.

I was very angry. I said, you guys need to wake up because a lot of people are, you know, cheating and stuff. And it's a freaking joke. You guys are kind of protecting these guys. And it shouldn't be like that. I mean, I was very angry. You know, it's like your fight, you know, I was very angry. You know, I never went publicly, never, like it was already. I wanted to change the system. And I was very angry. I was very angry. That's why. And they were like saying to me like, Really, you think so? And now then I look back, I know that they know, but they, I think, I know, I'm not stupid. I know it's business. If you promote a fight, you spend a million dollars doing promotion for a fight, and the guy get test positive, so they lose a lot of money. So it's not in their best interest right now to make the test, the best testing possible, because if the guy tests positive, they lose money because a fight got canceled.

So I know this. But I told them in a way that I told them it might take a year that you're going to lose money for a year maybe because a lot of your main stars, a lot of your guys, a lot of people will fall and test positive. It might hurt the image of the sport. But after a year, people will be scared and it will put back everything straight. I told them, and we had a big discussion on that, but they were like, oh, really, you really think so? They said that to me. But I do believe they know. I believe they pretend they didn't know, but I believe they do know that it's an issue.

So now they're partnered with Yusada, and it's been several months. Are you comfortable with where things are? Do you think enough is being done? Like, in this climate, could you come back, or do you still think more needs to be done? Look, look at my friend. Look at real, man. This is the thing, okay? I've got to do the truth. Please. Look. Okay. I read a lot of...

You know, when U.S.S. I did involved, I didn't say anything. Yeah. People ask me what I think. I think it was a good idea. And it's better than it was. It would never be perfect, but it's better than it was. It is better than it was. But is it the best that they can do? I'm not sure about that. You know, is it the best they can do.

They say it is the best, the higher standard and da-da-da. I would like, because these things need to be public. They need to make it public. Who they test, who test positive? Because there is false positive. There is people that test false positive, and you need to know why. Who tests?

Who tests and what do they test? They need to be public, and it's not public. And I think there's a problem in here, you know what I mean? Is it better? Yes, it's better. But it's not perfect. And it will never be perfect. But if it's in terms of the best standard, no, it's not the best standard.

And but it is still better. But yeah, I think there's a lot of, it has improved a lot, but it's not the best thing. And I read a lot of things. And I don't, you know, I don't say any name. Just go on Google. It's easy. You can read wonderful article. Go on Google.

And I just have to read U.S. USADA controversy, USADA boxing controversy, and you'll find a lot of very interesting stuff. So I don't want to say any name. You're a smart guy. Yes. You're, you're, the people that that is listening are smart people, go read about that. You'll find out, you'll find some very surprising stuff and evidence that I'll occur. And you'll see.

Yeah, I believe some of those articles written on this very website, SP Nation. And you understand what I'm saying. You'll understand what I'm saying when I'm talking about the highest standard. When you were in Montreal doing the Media Day before UFC 186, you said something very interesting that not a lot of people caught. You were asked about Reebok and you said, you know, if I came back, that might be a potential problem. What did you mean by that?

Would you not be in favor of being a part of the Reebok deal if you fought again? Look, I don't know the Reebok deal. My contract is different than people's contract. contract. I have a great team. I'm lucky. I have a great team of management behind me. Just the only thing I have to say, my contract is different than people's contract. I cannot really comment on that because, you know, my sponsors issue and things like that. But yeah, I just say that it's different. My contract is different than most people. Is that something that could stop you from coming back?

I could stop maybe UFC from having me coming back. Okay. Have you talked to them about this potential issue when they met with you in Montreal, when they sat? No, it's not my job. When I'm competing, my job is to fight in the octagon. I have a team that fight for me on legal right on business, right? And this is not my fight. This is my management fight.

And trust me, there are, there are. I'm confident I have the best in the world in that regard. I agree. A very great team. By the way, when they came to offer you a fight at 186, did they offer you an opponent? I'm sorry, what they did they say? Remember when they came to meet with you in Montreal and they asked you to fight on the card in Montreal last year or earlier this year? Did they ever actually offer you an opponent?

Did a name come out or was it just, are you interested in coming back? No, really. It was mostly I didn't really remember. It was a text message, I believe, from Dana. I said, you want to come back? I said, no. I said, no, I said, I would not really not. I don't think it was an opponent. It's not a, I don't remember what was the text. I didn't keep it. Sure. But it was like, hey, you want to fight in Montreal or something like that.

You know, I didn't care who it was. If it would be a three-foot midget or, for example, the best fighter, what I didn't care, I just was not ready. I was not ready for fighting. When you fight, you have to put yourself into a state of mind, and I was not there, yeah. Roy McDonald said last month that if you come back, it's for superfights and not the belt and everyone thought, or he said, when, and he sort of misspoke and everyone went crazy. Is that true?

Are you only interested in superfights, or do you want to actually try? try to get the belt back if you do come back? No, I don't know. I don't even know if I want the belt or a super fight. I just don't know. I don't know. And things are moving so much right now. And one thing for sure, there's a few guys that I will never fight.

And it's not a question of money. It's question of integrity and its friendship. There's guys that I'm friend with and I'm training that I would never fight. Rory is one of them. I would never fight Rory. I will never fight like guys like Rashad Evans. a friend is like a brother for me, Rashad. I know him for too long.

I know his family. You know what I mean? You know my family and we're friends. The guys like this, I would never fight. Tom Breeze, you know, guys like this, even if they asked me, $10 million, I would not fight. I would never fight. When I was watching 189, I saw what happened to Rory.

He was so close to getting that belt. It was such a devastating loss. I kept thinking, I wonder what George is thinking right now, seeing your friend, someone that you, you sort of brought along, you took under your wing, you know, kind of stumble at the last minute. He was so close to getting that belt. Was that difficult for you to watch?

Yeah, it was hard to watch. Unfortunately, yeah, I do believe he was winning the fight. Yeah. I believe he was ahead in the scorecard. And, you know, it's just sad, you know, I was watching the fight. It was a great fight, by the way. And I believe Rari is the first tour of the division. He's still very young.

You know, sometimes it's just not your time. You know, it's just like maybe you zig when you should have zag and he got caught. And I believe he will be champion. Maybe it was not just at the moment now, but I do believe he will be champion one day. Three last quick things, if I may. If Carlos Condit wins on January 2nd, does that drastically change your decision? because you've often said that he beat you up worse than anyone. And I kind of feel from your interviews that that's where things started to change.

Like you needed a long break after what Carlos did. You won the fight, but he hit you with some tough shots. He was unorthodox. Do you not want to go through that again? So if he wins, does that really make you think about things? It will make me think differently, but I just don't know. You know, when you fight a guy like Carlos, let's say you would fight a guy like Johnny, you would fight a guy on like Robbie.

You have to put yourself through a different mindset. because you're going through different opponents with different strengths. It's different, you know, everybody has different attributes and different quality and different physicality. And, yeah, it's different.

But I don't know if it has it. I don't think, I don't know at the term of affecting my decision if I will come back or not, I just don't know. The MMA world is going... You're a good interviewer, Ariel. You kept asking me the same question

within a different way. You're a very slick person, very slick guy. Thank you, George. This isn't our first interview, by the way, so I'm sure you, unless you notice... I'm just kidding. But you're smart. I see you coming from a different angle.

It's very smart. It's like a fight, right? You've got to keep moving. You've got to keep from different... A little jab here. I keep my hands up and moving around. I'm not getting hit by you. You know, you try different ways.

I see you coming. You're a slick guy. I appreciate, my friend. Okay, so let me ask you this. Sage Northcut everyone's going crazy over him he said I want to meet George St. Pierre I want to go to TriStar

we saw pictures of you two training together what do you make of Sage Northcutt yeah he's very good he's great very good athlete great raw talent you know

and he's and now with technique and he's surround himself by great people you know his dad and he's a karate background guy and

I think he's going to be great. He's going to have a great future. He's got a great mentality, good work, I think. Seems to me like he has a lot of pride,

which is very important for a fighter. He has a lot of pride. He's a very proud person, which is very important. That's what makes you strong. So I think he's going to be a great,

great fighter. He's already a great fighter, but he's going to become one of the force in his division. Perhaps reminds you of a young George St. Pierre? Yeah, but Sage North Cut is Sage North Cut.

I'm George St. Pierre. George St. Pierre is George St. Pierre. He's good at what you do. I'm good at what I did. So we're different people. Fair enough. Okay. Last thing, George.

This is what Dana White said to the Los Angeles Times recently. Quote, it'd be great if George comes back. Yes, I love George St. Pierre. Amazing athlete. But come back talk. I laugh at it. To be a world champion, you have to be hungry. That's not GSP, not even close.

End quote. Are you hungry? Yeah, it's different ways of being hungry. You can be... And it's a good illustration. People, like I'm doing promotion for the new movie of Sylvester Stallone. The movie, the movie creed, They explained about it.

You know, like, you can be poor and, you know, like, have nothing in your life and be hungry. This is a way of being hungry. But you can't be rich and be hungry as well because you're, you know, there's different ways of being hungry. It doesn't mean if you're, if you're wealthy and stuff, you're not hungry. You understand what I mean? Yeah. There's different ways of being hungry. And I can still can be hungry in a way.

I can be still hungry than more, I can even be more hungry than people that I have nothing. You know what I mean? Sure. Because I have a lot to lose. I have so much to lose that I'm scared of losing it and I don't want to lose because of my pride. When I'm talking about the pride,

the pride is my most important strength. I'm a very proud person. And I would never want to go back and make a fool of myself and be humiliated because I'm a very proud guy. because I have so much to lose that that's what's going to make me hungry and be willing to do better than anyone. You understand what I mean?

So there's different ways of being hungry. It's not only a guy that is poor and I think he needs to be hungry. Because in Hawaii, I think he sees us from this perspective, but as a fighter, you can ask there's different ways of being hungry. Fly me whether he's hungry. He's winning because he's a proud guy. He's very proud.

proud. You know what I mean? Yeah. George, a pleasure as always. Thank you so much. This is an honor for me. Anytime I get to talk to you, it's a huge pleasure and honor. So thank you very much for the time today. And please, if you do make a decision of any kind, you can come back to your friend and we'll talk about it here on the show. I'd love to talk to you about that. All right. Thank you. Bye. There he is. George St. Pierre. Some answers. Some questions still linger. It always great to hear from you. I have not talked to our next guest in around two years.

I believe I'm still blocked by him on Twitter. It was tough to get him on, but for one reason or another, he agreed to come on. I'm talking about my old friend, Quinton, Rampage, Jackson. Rampage? Are you there? What about, man? I'm here, man. Can you hear me? I can hear you just fine. I can't even tell you the emotions going through my body, because I got to be honest. I thought you never talked to me again.

I'm not sure why. I don't know how you feel about me now, but I love that you're here. Well, you still suck. You still suck, but my fans wanted me to go on. I ask my fans a lot of questions these days because, you know,

I try to be very close to my fans, the true Rampage fans, not just the new MNAA fans. So the ones that's been there with me for day one. And, you know what I said? I play video games with them. I talk to them on Instagram. And, you know what I said?

I talked to them on Twitter, and they said, yeah, go on area show. We want to hear from you. Okay, well, let me ask you this then. Why are you so mad at me? Why in Montreal, in my hometown, when you came back to the UFC, you refused to speak to me? You wouldn't even allow me to be in the scrum. You wanted nothing to do with me. You hated me.

I could tell. Why? I don't hate nobody. I don't hate nobody, but you hated on me. When I left the UFC and I signed with Vicon, you said some very derogatory things to me. personally on the phone, we talked. I remember talking to you? What?

And people kept asking me the same questions. Like, why did you leave the EOC? Why do you go to TNA? Why you didn't go WWE? And I felt like I got the point across, but, you know, I don't know, you know, I don't know what Vicarum had promoted and stuff like that. And I noticed that you have a good connection with the fans. And I wanted to tell you, listen, man, you know, my fans are asking a lot of questions.

I'm trying to answer about the questions. and they don't understand why I'm at TNA and not WWE and why I'm with Vacom and you said and I said and I asked you, I said, can we do an interview so I can explain everything because like Vacom did like a media press but I don't think they got the point across

you have a better reaching them. You said, oh, don't wear it. That's what happened when you leave the UFC you become irrelevant blah blah blah You said it to me personally. I'm like, wow. I didn't say. Yeah, shut up, let me talk.

You asked me a motherfucker question. Okay. I'm like, yeah. Yeah, that's what you said. I'm making them, I'm making up shit. I ain't making up shit. And then when I had the reality show, you know what I said? You hate it on it.

People, people would comment and me coming like, man, area one and say, your reality show suck. I was like, oh, man, I need all the ratings I can get, so I can prove the vibe come that, you know what I'm saying? I can do this shit here. I can entertain the fans, even the four hours stepping to the Cape. And I thought we were boys, and you said that. So I said, so I told my man, I said,

no, I don't want to deal with an area no more. I don't want to do an interview with him. he's hating on me. Well, first off, I will apologize. I did say that the show was bad, so I apologize for that. I was just trying to keep it real. You know I like to keep a real.

Can you say now that you're no longer with Viacom that it wasn't the greatest reality show of all time? Can you at least admit that? Listen, I never said it was the greatest reality show. Like, listen, if they would have gave me more control over what I could do and say, it wasn't even a damn reality show. It was a show to the program,

and they just promoted my fight. It wasn't even a reality show. When you guys got to learn this, when you do it like a reality show or any type of TV, stuff like that, even though they said I was an executive producer, man, those producing and stuff like that, they see how egos. They want to run this up. They have a boss to answer, too. I don't know all their, you know, ends and out. They didn't get me that much control. But the one show that I did have, like, insight in was like the last episode where my cousin had the pool party and stuff like that.

And they did pretty much almost everything I said, except for they didn't put the fat chicks in a jacuzzi. and put the fat tics in the cruiser, boom. It would have been a hit. That stuff would have went viral and stuff like that. But, no, people don't listen to me. People just look at me and think that I'm just a black man that would be howling in the cage and stuff like that. You know what I'm saying?

They don't understand my full potential. And while I became one of the most, you know what I'm saying, marketable fighters is because of my personality, because of my personality, because of stuff I bring to the table. But, you know what I'm saying? I feel like this. That's their loss. And yeah, it wasn't the best reality show

because I didn't want to do a whole bunch of fake shit. And do all this stuff. Like, mostly women watch reality shows. Like, men don't watch a reality show. But for guys, for, for MMA fans, that was a good reality show. What other fighters having a reality show? You should have, like, you should have, like, you should have, like, you should have, like, well, I hope rampage can do this. I hope rampage can do that.

You know what I'm saying? I know what I'm saying? Like, when you boys and stuff like that, you're supposed to be cool, you don't, you know what I'm saying? You keep it real by not dogging his shit, you know, on the public air. That's all I'm saying. That's fair. That's fair. And I apologize that I should have supported it more.

I think I was a little bit ticked off when I saw you at that media day. And, man, you gave me that stare down. You remember? And you said, F this, F that. I'm not talking to you. Remember that? In New York? No, I don't remember.

I probably did it, but yeah, I don't know. You were not happy with me. I thought, with your eyes, you were telling me you better, you better go to the other side of the room. Yeah, man. I get, I get headed on enough, you know what I'm saying? Some people don't like me because of this. Some people don't like me because of this. Some people don't like me because of my skin.

you know what I'm saying some some people whatever you know what I'm saying so I get hated on enough I don't I don't like to get hated on by my friends you know what I'm saying that's so you have put yourself in my shoes you know what I'm saying you both to be cool with somebody you know that's the last person that you want to get hated on I you know I get I get hit on enough hell I'm not even

close to my family anymore because you know what I'm saying I pursue my dream to become a professional fighter and now they think that I'm a multi-millionaire I'm a multi-millionaire and all this and they think I'm I'm a movie star and stuff like that so now they feel like oh, you should pay all my bills. You should buy me a car.

You should buy me a house. And when I say, no, I can't do that. I got my own kids. We got my own bills. Then now I'm stuck up. You know what I'm saying? So I get hit on by my own family. You know what I'm saying?

You think I want to get hated on by my friends and shit? Think about it, man. Put this up in my shoes. Does that mean the fact that you're on this show today, does that mean that we're friends again? No, it means that I listen to my fans. That's what I, I listen to my fans. You know what I've been, I've been on Twitch lately. Yes.

So I've been on Twitch lately. Yeah. So now I'll be live streamed on video games. So now the fans can talk to me while I play video games. I can kill two birds at once because I love video games. And I guess they follow me on Twitter. So fans on Twitch, man, they speak their mind and stuff. So they told me, like, yeah, go all that area of the one.

You know what I said. Just don't call him big nose or whatever. I don't know why they would say that. But that's what they said. They said, don't talk about his nose, whatever you do. Because if you talk about area the one that knows, when you get up the phone, he'll probably go to hit on you again.

So I said, okay, I said, I'm not going to talk about that big beak. I mean, that knows you got, I ain't going to say nothing about it. And I think, but I go on the area of the one on the show, and they say they want to know what I'm doing. People want to know what I'm doing.

A lot of people don't understand. People keep asking me, when you fight next, when you fight next. And most people don't know that I'm tied up in a damn court battle with Viacom and Derritor. So I don't know where I'm going to fight next.

You know what I'm saying? Can you explain that situation to us? Because you came back to the UFC. It was great. You were much of all you won. You beat Fabio Madanado. It was so cool to see you back. And now you appear to be on the sidelines.

Where are we at with all of that? Well, this is the thing. People need to realize that I'm not a manager. I'm a fighter. And my manager is very good at what he does. And Valkan breached their contract. And they had 45 days to fix the breach. We gave him 90-something days.

They didn't fix the breach. So in my contract, I was allowed to terminate my contract if Valcom didn't fix the breach. You know what I'm saying? Because they promised movies, pro wrestling, reality shows, everything to boost the pay-per-views. Everybody saw what happened to Beyond Redney. He got canned. Scott Coker came in. The company was turned upside down, and my contract got shitted on.

You know what I'm saying? That's all out there. That's common sense. And so for some reason, Viacom didn't want to fix things. So my manager terminated it, and he took everything to the UFC, and the UFC said, yep, he's legal to sign, and Vodcom didn't agree with determination. So I don't know if my manager missed one step, going to the courts or whatnot.

So they try to put a hold on my fight. I go to the courts and something like that and everything, and I got the, you know, I got the overturned, you know what I'm saying, and I fought, and I did that just because, you know, for the fans, because they wanted to see the fight, and it just messed up. So now I'm tied up and I'm going to court and stuff like that, and I feel like they're just trying to tie me up so I don't fight. But, you know, at the end of the day, I've been thinking about this for a long time.

At the end of the day, I've won four fights in a row. I've done a lot in this sport. I've been fighting for 15 years, you know what I'm saying? I love this sport. So I'm thinking like a Beltor cannot make me fight for them. And so I'm thinking I might as well just go ahead and really. retire. I just retire. You know what I'm saying? I got my, my clone that's going to fight. He's 15 years old right now. I'm training him right now. He's going through his whole wrestling background.

I'm training him on my self-defense. He got natural slams. So I'm just thinking like when he turned 18, then I put him in amateur and then I send him to Japan and do the whole, the whole thing. So you guys have another rampage coming in a couple of years. But me, you know what I'm saying? if, you know what I'm saying, Belletoy and stuff, they keep trying to hold me up, you know what I'm saying? I just retire and just do movies and,

and TV shows and stuff like that because, you know, it's just too much stress for one person to deal with. All I try to do is just fight, put on an exciting fight, and, you know what I'm saying? People try to, you know how people are.

Some people try to screw you over. Some people try to help you out. You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? You know, they've been helping me out and stuff like that and standing about me and stuff and everything. but, you know, there's only so much that one human being can take, you know.

So are you saying right now that you're done, that you're officially retired? I'm saying that if, if, if this court stuff don't go, if, if this court don't go, um, this court don't, if this court stuff don't go well, then yeah, I might as well retire, because I'm not going to, um, I'm not going to, you know, get, I'm not going to let's not force me to fight or, you know, it can't stop me. So I've done, I've done a lot, I've done a lot in this sport, you know what I'm saying? So, and the easy, the easy thing for me to do, just we're trying to just walk away. Wow. Do you have a timeline? Like, if it drags on to this point, I'm done, you know, I'm not going to wait this long. Like, did you have a, do you have a set

timeline in your mind, a deadline, if you will? No, no, I don't have, I don't have, I don't have a set, I'm just I'm just I'm just been thinking about it I told my manager other day you know

because you know no one no one can ever say in business that I've done them wrong in business

and I feel like um Belator try to paint a picture like I'm a crook I sign a double sign with somebody

and you know what I'm saying that's not me that's not in my character no one can ever say I screwed them over in business you know I keep it real I've always

always been that type of guy that's just just the way I am I just choose to be straightforward. I feel like if you're a crook and you're greeted, you know what I'm saying? You bring your bridges and no one wants to work with you. And it's, you know, saying,

UFC don't mind work with me because they know I never, I never screwed them over. I never would. And they start up a new pride and stuff like that. Those guys, they know they would like to work with me because I always bring a sight and fight. I never try to screw them over and stuff like that. And Bellator still wants me to work with them. They know I'm not the shaded one in this equation.

but you know what I'm saying like at the end of day I'm the only one that's getting screwed because my manager did his job I don't read contracts I don't do all this stuff that's my manager that's why I pay my manager so I'm the one that's getting you know what I'm saying punished for all this so if I retire

I'd be happier less stress anything it caused you stress guys in this world just walk away from it because stress is is a killer man it ain't worth it so anything that causes me stress I'm walking away from I'm talking to my girlfriends jobs

businesses, contracts, anything that caused me stressing these days, I'm walking away from. Have you thought about trying to sit down with them and settle in a way

or on the flip side, have you thought about maybe saying, look, you know, I just want to fight and get paid. I'll just go back and fight there if that's what it means. Have you thought of any of those scenarios? Well, I don't know.

Listen, I don't know how much I can say. Okay. I don't know how much I can say, but yeah, I'll talk of scenarios, but this is a problem that,

this is the problem that they screwed everything up. Since Viacom offered me all these different revenues to earn money, fighting was the, you know, the purse for fighting wasn't that great. Because I was going to, I think I was going to make a lot of money off pay-per-view because they said they're going to promote me and do all this stuff. And if I'm making money off doing movies,

I make a money I'm doing pro wrestling, and they promote my T-shirt for wrestling and promote my pay-per-view. And a reality show, I'm getting paid to do the reality. show and they're promoting and they promoting my clothing line and stuff on the reality show and they and they promoting it all over the place and then I'm making a lot of revenue I'll pick views and promotions but nothing that happened did it so so it ain't working for me to just fight for the for the money that they was paying me I was actually losing money after I paid all my training partners and my coaches and my 10% to my manager so you know I

basically I basically lost money to help build a bellatory then I went there and then look You know, their numbers started going up and then other fighters started coming over. Cito came over. Ken Sarrock came over. Kimbo Slice. What's the name? Stephen Barner?

You know, I brought all this heat to them, and what I get out of it, I get, I get debt. I get, I get, I get to, you know, I lose money fighting for them. And that's not, that's no way to treat, there's no way to treat somebody that came over to help you out. I came over to help them out. and help build their, you know, organization.

And this is how I getting treated. And I don't want to do business with people like that, you know what I'm saying? I'm sure if Icom is a great company, I'm sure Beltoe is a great company. But, you know, I'm just getting treated poorly. And I feel like, you know what I'm saying? They should respect that. Like, it was nothing personal. I'm like, okay, this is how y'all do business.

I don't want to do business with people like y'all, you know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? If somebody came over, like my gym, my gym needs help. There's no, there's no lie. This is my first time on the gym. It's doing okay, but it could be great. My gym can, you know,

my gym can use 200 or 300 more people. Then boom, we're booming. Then I go and over up another gym and stuff like that. That's how you're doing business. But if somebody came to my gym and they started bringing people to my gym and making my gym flourish and stuff like that, I'm not going to cheat them like crap. I'm going to give them a raise.

I'm going to, you know, say, give them praise, and I'm going to make them feel good. Make them feel happy about working at my gym. I always choose the opposite. That's all I'm saying. Like, I know people don't understand that shit. That's all I'm saying. So what do you do all day these days?

You know, like I said, I'm still blocked by you on Twitter, but I can't keep tabs. I see you tweeting about this Twitch thing, which honestly I have no idea what that is, and I'd love for you to explain it to me. Is that what you're doing? Is that your new thing while you're not fighting? Well, I do a lot of stuff.

I do movies and stuff like that. And, you know, I got other investments and stuff like that. But the Twitch thing is like, it's like telling two birds with one stone. It's like where you live streaming your video game play. Like I can play video games

and people from all over the world can watch me play video games and interact with me and joke around with me and laugh with me. And, you know, my Twitch name is Rampageus, human, one word. And just go to Twitch and I guess you type that in and you can follow me and see when I'm on Twitch.

You know, I'm on my tweet when I'm on and you guys can play video games with me. You can just watch, you can play video games or sometimes I invite some of the guys that have the same video game I have and I bite them on and I play video games with them. And it just, it's just fun. There's a lot of gamers in this world, you know.

I'm a gamer, but I'm not as good as most people because I never really had time to play video games. So Twitch allows me to play video games with people that I wouldn't normally give a chance to play video games with it. We've been talking about video games on this show. Apparently, it's very popular. Have ever thought about going into that e-gaming world? You know, like you can apparently make a lot of money doing that.

Can you imagine, rampage moving over to e-gaming? That would be nuts. No, I don't know. I never heard of e-gaming, but I heard some people can make a good listening at Twitch, but, you know, I still enjoy entertaining people, so Twitch is something that I do on my, on my spare time, but I feel like, I still like do movies and and stuff like that, and I've been working on some stuff. In November, I got some stuff coming up and everything, but, you know, I said, fighting, fight is my passion. It's one of the best things that I'm good at, but, you know, I'm 37 now, and, and, you know, I'm 37

now and I had a lot of injuries over the years, stuff like that. So if I do have to retire, I'm not going to cry, you know, so I'm going to miss it. I still train it. I still do, like, what I was still do, I still do, I still do like judicious tournaments and stuff like that. But I just become upset that I never got the boxing match that I wanted. But I think my last fight with Mabobo was the closest thing to a boxing match that I ever would get because, you know, he was a pro boxer, and I basically stood up for most of the match and stuff

like that and I box himself. Well, you know what's going on behind the scenes. In your heart of hearts, do you think you have fought your last fight? Do you think that that's the way this is going here? I really do think that I fought my last fight because you guys wasn't in my mediation with me when Vycom said what they wanted in order for me to settle. And I feel like it was lopsided in my attorney. I feel like it was lopsided.

What do they want? Can you tell us? I don't think I can tell you, but I can, I can, I can, I can sue them for a lot of money because I lost a lot of money. And they, and they want to sell the old girl like, wow, this is, it was crazy. But yeah, I don't think, I don't think I could tell you guys. I don't think I can tell you. But if I, if I ever find out, I can tell you, I'll put it out there, but I don't think I can. But I just, I just, I just, I just don't want any more problems. I don't want any more stress.

I just want to live my life and be happy. You know, I'm a single parent. You know what I'm saying? I got two teenagers that I take care of every day. Then my two young kids, I see them throughout the weekend on the weekends. They come stay at my house and stuff like that. And when you're alpha and you have your seeds, and that's what you basically live for.

You want to make sure your seeds grow up and your DNA remains on this earth and you can leave your impression with your DNA. It's just one of my instincts, it's one of my jobs. I just want my DNA on this planet to survive and be successful. and one of my kids is an alpha, and you guys get to know him soon, you know, so I'm protecting him and stuff right now. I'm teaching him all himself to ends and out,

so he don't make the same mistakes that I made, and I'm going to make sure that I manage him myself and that he don't get screwed over. Like, I've been screwed over by large companies. I'm not going to say their name. I've been screwed over by large companies, sponsors, you know what I'm saying, different things and I think it happened.

I think all this happened for me to learn for my son. I think my son is going to be a bigger star than I ever was. I think my son will be a better fighter than I ever was because he started younger than me. See, I didn't start until I was 17 and he's been, and he's been trying to, he's been trying for a couple years and stuff now. I just been keeping everything quiet. Now he's doing wrestling and I see he got the natural strength. He's slamming people naturally.

He won his wrestling tournament last week. you know what I'm saying and that was his second wrestling tournament I didn't saw winning I didn't saw a win in wrestling to like I had been doing it for like a year he's he's only been doing it for a couple of months and he's already pinning everybody and slamming him so the kids just natural and I'm just going to devote all my energy and him and I want him to conquer

MMA well rampage from one alpha male to another I hope that this isn't the end of your career I'm very excited about your son I'd love to talk to him in the future but I hope, I feel like there's a couple more fights you got left in you, some big fights. I hope it's not the end. But I appreciate the update. It means the world to me that you would come on this show. And as an olive branch, I'm not asking you to unblock me things like, but as an all branch,

I want to plug your Twitch. Rampage is human. That's where you can find Mr. Rampage Jackson. Rampage for Real is his Twitter, which he is still blocked me on. Instagram, Rampage for Real is the name as well. Rampage Jackson.com. What else am I missing? Am I missing anything else that I can plug?

Oh, how about that shirt, that amazing shirt that I would love to have in the studio of The Punch Out, the Punch Out Rampage, right? That was a great shirt you were wearing. What else you got? I ain't got shit else. All I got to say is you thank the Rampage fans for getting me on her because I ain't do it for you, motherfucker, because you got a small-ass motherfucker and you be hating on me. When you stop hating on me and shit and talking shit, then we'd be cool.

Other than that, wing squat shit. You remember that motherfucker. Can we still go to Memphis and have some barbecue? man fuck you are you there yeah I'm mad fuck you I ain't gonna take you to my hometown

let you meet my motherfuck of mama and meet all my brother and shit why you hate on me okay fair enough I'm sorry I'm sorry once again I'm sorry

for anything I've done to offend you to disappoint you I hope this is the beginning of us rekindling our friendship and we could finally do that walk and talk in Memphis I hope that you are not

retiring I hope that this legal problem gets resolved. I hope you have a great training session today. I think you're going to train. I hope you get a lot of money on Twitch. I hope only the best for you, Rampage Jackson, and I love it. All right. All right. I like what it's sound. I think if I'm talking to my fans tonight.

See what they say. See what they say. See if you talk shit about me soon. I got the phone. All right. Thank you so much. Regardless of who you did it for, I appreciate you coming on. All right. Keep us posted. Take care. Much love. Asalam al-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a.

there he is. Rampage Jackson. How about that? Ooh, got a little dicey there for a second, but we made it. Very excited to have him on almost exactly a year since his MMA hour debut. I'm talking about the legendary Mirko Krocop. Mirko, are you there? Hey, hi, I'm here. Great to have you on the show, Mirko, and welcome back to the UFC. Can you explain to us how this all came about? How did you link up with the UFC?

Because I think a lot of people weren't expecting this to happen at this point in your career. Well, it was my wish, and after my last fight in Japan for the new year era, I decided to do a few more fights, you know, and some rematches I really want to do. And I called Lorenzo Fetita, and we made a deal, and that's it. So you actually called them up. You got the ball rolling. You're the one who called Lorenzo first. they didn't call you first. You're the one that started the discussion.

Doesn't matter. The most important thing is that I'm fighting on April 11 against Bonzaga. It was my, it was the fight that I will never forget, and I just want to do rematch with him. And I can't say I will beat him, you know, but I will die trying. I will die trying, and that's how I feel. I feel good right now, and there are a few more things I really want to do, and definitely part in the government of Zaga is one of them,

and I signed three-fight deal, and that's it. You said three-fight or two-fight? Two-fight. Three. I couldn't hear you. The connection's a little off. Yeah, Croatia is far. Yeah, it is far.

This is a fight that everyone remembers. I mean, it's replayed over and over again. Of all your fights, and, you know, you've had some big wins, You've had some losses. Is this the one that bothers you the most? Is this a loss that really bugs you until this day? Yeah, I think that's my worst loss, you know. And I just, you know, I was excited.

And the UFC suggested Gonzaga is the first opponent. Yeah, yeah, was that your idea as well, or was that their idea? No, I didn't say that I won't particular. But I said I want to do a few rematches, you know, but everybody knows who's on the list, you know, people are other LFSI contracts, but they pick up the first one. Sure. You know, the timing of the whole deal was very interesting because just a couple of days

before they announced that you were back, Scott Koker was saying that he was talking to you. Did that come into play at all? Like, was that almost good for you once they found out that Koker was talking to you? Did that maybe, you know, get a negotiation going? You were able to use them as leverage? I don't know. I don't think it has nothing to do with my discussion with Scott Cooker. Scott Cooker was a guest in Japan, and I met him in the hotel.

We have a nice talk, he's a very nice person, and I know him since my Friday's, and he said it. They're interested. Belator is interested, you know, but at the end of the day, you know, I signed with USC, and that's it. Did it ever get serious with them or not really with Scott Coker? Listen, doesn't matter right now. Doesn't matter now. The most important thing is that I'm fighting soon and I'm training hard and, you know, who cares? At the end of the day, who cares?

Is it serious? Fair enough. You know, your last fight against... You sound like police officer, you know? Like you're investigating. I ask a lot of questions, yes. People get annoyed. I know.

I'm sorry about that. I'm Joe. That's cool. You know, I don't know if you remember last year that you were on this show. You were singing, we had you on for an hour. It was one of the greatest interviews of my entire career. Do you remember that? Do you remember me? Of course, I remember you.

Okay, great. I just wanted to make sure. Let's move along. You know, you had that win over Satoshi Ishi on December 31st, and it was classic crow cop. It was vintage crow cop with the big head kick knockout. Did that make you feel like, okay, I could still do this. I'm back. You know, some people are saying maybe it's time for me to retire.

that was like we could have been watching a fight from 2004. Did you feel the same way? I felt really good, you know, and I managed to recover my body completely, you know. But I mentioned that many times, you know, I feel really embarrassed to talk, to talk about it anymore, that I had eight surgery altogether since my first fight in UFC. And of course, every surgery, you know, take your weight three, four months away from training and of course my, my brother was suffering. But last, let's say, six, seven months, I recover completely for all kinds of injuries, you know,

and I had problems recent, what, year and a half, almost two years, I had probably discurs hernia, and I managed to fix it also, you know, and I really feel, I really feel great and I really feel like I'm in 2000, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, you know, when I won Grand Prix, and I feel really good, you know. Wow. New team around me, I'm training with a smile on my face, and this is what I want to do. And that's it. No big, no big mystery, no big philosophy.

That's my job. I like to do it, and UFC gave me an opportunity to do some rematches that I would like to do before I finally, I've ever. to do definitely retirement. But, you know, I can't promise. Nobody can. This is MMA. One punch can turn the fight.

But I will definitely die trying. And one thing is for sure. I will die trying and I will be definitely in 100%, I will be 100% ready and I will be in a top shape. And under death of circumstances, I'm not afraid of anyone. I respect everybody, you know, all great fighters, you know. UFC has the best heavyweight in the world,

and UFC is only one global organization, you know, and everybody wants to compete in the UFC, and definitely top fighters are in the UFC, and I will do my best. That's it, you know. I have no pressure, you know, and even if I fail, which I don't think I will, but even if I fail, I will know one day, I tried.

Yeah. I tried, you know. And that's how I work, that's how I function, That's how I think, and that's me, you know. You don't want any regrets. That's my life philosophy, and that's all. But most important things, I really feel, I really feel great, and I really train harder than ever, you know,

and you saw my last, my New Year's performance, you know. I really felt great, you know. Even if she was 13 years younger than I, you know, his Olympic gold Olympic winner, you know, and what? nine, the fight, winning streak, but I knocked him out, you know, and I was ready. I knew it is going to happen, then when I'm ready, when I'm healthy, and then I believe in myself, and then everybody should be concerned. Do you think that this UFC run now, the beginning of this new run in the UFC will be

your final stretch of your career, like you don't want to fight anywhere else at this point? No, no, no, no. This will definitely be my final life. Definitely. When I, when I, when I, when I, when I, when I, when I, when I, when I, when I, when I, you see, it will be the end of my career. Definitely. Definitely. What about in kickboxing?

I'm, I'm 40, listen, I'm 40 years old, but I feel really good, you know. I'm training all my life. I'm training it 365 days a year and training every day. If if there is a day off, I'm doing easy, easy jogging, just stretching, you know, I'm taking maximum care, what I'm eating, what I'm drinking. about taking an afternoon nap every day, you know, and I'm in the bed at 10 o'clock in the evening, and I sleep at least eight, sometimes nine hours, you know, and I feel good, you know. I'm taking care of my body, you know, and under that circumstances, maybe it sounds pathetic,

but under that circumstances, years are just the numbers, you know. There are many people, many sportsmen who are talking about sport. They are there at 30, 28, 29. They don't live like professionals. They drink, they go out, they are smoking, you know, they are destroying their body. My body is in excellent shape, you know, but unfortunately, I had bad luck with injuries, you know, and what to say? my last fight in the UFC,

10 days, 10 days before the fight. The last sparring, unbelievable, last sparring, last round of the last sparring for that preparation. Pet Berry came to help me. I was fighting with,

help me now, I can't remember name. He, because of all the way deadly, so we took a lot. And on the last round of the last sparring,

I threw a hook and my biceps and ligament was broken. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. And nobody, I'm telling you now, nobody under that circumstance who wouldn't take the fight. Everybody would cancel a fight.

But I couldn't, you know. I was waiting six months for that fight, you know, and I just wanted to fight. I knew that I had to go for the surgery, definitely, and it means that I'm out for the next six to eight, maybe nine months, and I just wanted to take my chance. It was a stupid decision, of course,

because you cannot fight with a fighter, like Roy Nelson with one arm, you know, but definitely, you know, I was, I had a bad luck. And now I'm completely now rehabilitated and I'm completely healthy and I feel good. And believe me, I'm training with a smile on my face after a long time, you know. Especially I had a problem with discus hernia and so many pain in the back, you know, when I was throwing the kicks, wrestling, you know, and training was torture for me, you know. but I was just used to train under that circumstances,

but now I feel really good, and more or less that's it. When was the last time you saw that fight against Gabriel Gonzaga, the first one? When I saw it? Yeah, when's the last time? I don't know, a few days ago. Two days ago? No, I, since I have a Facebook account on my iPhone, so on my wall, they're coming, all kinds of videos, you know.

I just opened a video. It was from somebody put it from one, one, uh, uh, uh, I don't know,

is it shared the goal, I don't know. So they just, they just put it, some, some of my friends put it so or so. I saw it, I saw it before.

Does it make you sick? It was a, it was a shocking sight to see. Does it make you sick when you see it, the, the knockout and the way you fell? No, no, no, no, no, no.

No, no, no, no. No, no, it's okay. I can, I can, I can watch it without problem. No problem. No problem, wow. and have you been watching him? Like, you know what he's been doing as of late? Yeah, yeah, I know.

I know. I already studied all his fights after, after, after, after, after we fought. And no big surprises. There will be no big surprises. I know exactly what he's going to do and what he's doing. Do you ever think of... Things will be different, this time, you know? Do you ever think about how your career might be a little different?

I mean, you probably would have gotten a title shot had you won that fight against Randy Coutour. that would have been a big fight. You think about those things? No, I don't think. It's life, you know. Life can turn either way, you know. So I don't think too much. What's the use of thinking?

This could be like this. Could be, but it didn't. So I don't want to waste time thinking about things, what could be. Sure, sure. How popular are you in Poland? This is the UFC's debut in Krakow. Is this a very big fight? Do you think a lot of people from Croatia will come to the fight?

To tell you the truth, I have no idea. I have no idea how popular I'm in Poland. But definitely some people from Croatia will go there. How many of them? I don't know. I don't know. What was the reaction? I really don't know. What was the reaction locally when they found that you were back in Croatia?

What was the reaction from the media and the people? What did you hear? Well, like always, you know, some people was very excited about it. some of my friends, some fans, was very excited, you know, very happy. And of course, there's always people, you know, whatever you do, it's not good, you know. Whatever you do, whatever you do, whatever I do.

If I save the world or anyone else, why did he, why did he do it, you know, he shouldn't say, last year, whatever I do is not good, you know. So there is always people like that. Whoever do anything, you know, but I'm doing it with him. I'm representing myself. I'm not I don't take anyone's place

you know I don't know this is this is this is individual sport you know and I'm presenting myself I'm not a member of some national team team so I'm taking a place

I'm taking a place for some younger fighter who could fight instead of me but no this is I'm fighting for myself of course for Mike I will

I will definitely do my best to promote my country you know and I'm always fighting under my country's flag, but at the end of the day, it's my choice, my choice, my decision, you know, and so, but I think I did the right decision and, because I just, I really want to do it, you know, I really want to do it. Recently, correct me from wrong, recently you train with Steve Amy Ochich, right, who's another Croatian fighter who looks up to you and has spoken very highly of you. wasn't he recently No, no, we didn't train, yes He's coming in a two weeks

Yeah, he's coming in a two weeks in Croatia So we'll train Have you ever trained with him before? No What do you know about, Stipe? And if you do know anything about him, are you impressed with him? We met this summer, he came He came to visit me in my house

He's one extraordinary person Really nice and humble guy Yeah And And top fight you know, he's really good, you know, and he's young and definitely big future is in front of him. Yeah, so are you bringing him specifically for this fight or were you guys planning on training together, you know? Well, I bring him, it was also one of big minus of my career.

You know, I was always preparing since Friday's, you know, but I had no option, you know, because I was, I wouldn't say too lazy because there is nothing hard for me. I really like to train and I'm really professional, but I just can't go outside of Croatia to train. Why? I have two sons. I have a family here, and it would definitely kill me. Many fighters are going, you know, they're moving from the continent to another continent, from the state to the state, you know, of course, there is a huge benefit to train in a big camp,

you know, to have an opportunity to change sparring partners, but it's just not option for me. I just can't go out of Croatia. It's stupid, you know, I sound soft, but I just couldn't go. And I was always preparing, I was always managing to have either top jujitsu fighter or top kickboxers, you know. But I never, I never in my life, prepare myself for a fight with a complete MMA fighter and the top one, especially top one.

And that's the key. You need to sparring is the key. Sparring is the key. You need to spar with complete MMA fighters. And Stipa, definitely will exchange. Punches, kick, kicks, he will try to take me down. I will try to take him down, you know, we'll do round and pound, you know, which is very limited. When you are doing, you know, two minutes in the round, I'm doing the kickboxing,

and then I'm doing it two minutes on the ground with top jujitsu fighter doesn't matter, but they are not MMA fighters. The kickboxer doesn't know. He doesn't know how to take me down. He doesn't threat me at all. And the jiu-jitsu fighter, he doesn't know how to punch me on the ground, you know. And I need a complete fighter who knows how to throw elbows on the ground, who knows how to do ground and pound, you know,

and all those things, you know, that's very important in MMFA. It's very interesting to hear you say that you don't want to go home, and I definitely respect that, or go away from your home to train. Did you ever do that and really dislike it in your entire career? Did you ever leave Croatia? I went a few times, you know. It was maximum, one week, maximum. I can stay in Amsterdam, for example, when I came with Ivan Hippolyt, you know.

But it was torture for me. I had to stay in a hotel, eating some hotel food, you know, there isn't food that I'm used to, you know. So it was, it was a great thing to train there, but when I compare it to the minus food, stress, being alone there, you know. And I just hate it, you know, I just hate it. That's why I always try to get people, to get people in Croatia. and I managed to get them, but never top MMA fighter, you know,

and I need MMA sparring, not kickboxing mixed with some jujitsu, no, I need MMA sparring. And MMA sparring with the top fighters like Steepen-Mitch, it's a huge advantage for preparation, you know? Are you done kickboxing now? I asked Steve, if he would like to help me, and he accepted that's great.

Are you done kickboxing now? Is your kickboxing career over? Yeah, no, yeah. I'm done. I'm done. I'm done with kickboxing. No more. Not even one more. You're done. That's it. No, I'm done with you. I'm not interested in kickboxing anymore, you know. K.1 doesn't exist anymore. And Kain doesn't exist anymore. Glory also was in some kind of problems, you know,

and kickboxing as a sport is in a big problem, you know. It's unfortunate. Yeah, unfortunately. Okay, and final question for you, Mirko, and this is a big joy for us. Thank you so much. I know sometimes they say that you don't like talking to the media, but I don't believe that. I actually think you do like talking to the media. You're very open with your comments.

It's great. Listen, that's not true. I was always professional. I always did what I was expected to do, but people don't get it, you know. For my last fight in the States, you know, for glory, you know, they don't understand. they put me one and one, 20 minutes. And, okay, I finish interview. And the same interviews, same 99% of the questions are the same, second one.

In third one and fifth one. And then the fifth one came, and I had to repeat, fifth time the same, same question, same answer. I have to give, same answers. I have to give for a fifth time. And it really frustrates me, you know. And then I really don't like it, you know. but you are the only one today

and this was actually the first interview before this fight and I respect you a lot I respect you a lot as a as a leading MMA journalist you know and there is no problem there is no problem you know but

sometimes you know especially two days before the fight when people want to talk to me hours you know about some unimportant things to start questioning me since I was a kid, you know, and it persuades me, you know. No. But usually I'm really kind and a normal person, at least I believe so. Yes, and I would agree, and I thank you for those kind words.

I want to know, are we going with the right kick or the left kick in this fight? No, I don't want to be arrogant. I don't want to be arrogant. I will do my best to prepare. I'm already right now today in a very, very solid shape, but for the fight I will be, I have to be in. the shape of my life and I really want, I really want that victory more than anything, believe it, more than anything.

More than anything. In your entire career, you've never won a victory that wanted a victory more than this one. Exactly. Wow. This will be... Why so much this one in particular? Because definitely this was my... I told you before.

Yeah. This was my worst loss, you know, and I really believe that I'm better fighter than Gavre because I don't want to be big mouth and I respect. him, you know, he's a great fighter, and I will do my best, definitely. He will do his best, and I'm definitely sure that we are going to perform a great, great show,

you know, and the fans will be happy, and of course, I believe, and I want, of course, to win that fight, and I will do my best. I will do my best to beat him. And it must be inspiring to see kind of the older guys like Josh Barnett and Mark Hunt, who you fight, I mean, guys who were around doing well these days. You know, that's got

inspire you as well, right? And Jarlovsky? I said nothing to do. I'm not inspired, you know, because I'm glad, I'm glad that my generation, like Hunt, we are same age, you know, I'm glad that he's doing well, you know, and I'm really, I really am, you know, and it proves that we are not not dead, you know, and especially not old, you know, as I said before, if you live the way I live, and if you train the way I train, and if you take care for all kinds of things, I'm taking care. In that case, the years of just the numbers. We actually have Mark on the Skype right now.

Is there anything you want to say to him? Old friend of yours. Yeah, he's an old friend of mine before two times, you know, and my old brothers, you know, say big hi to him, and I wish him all the best. Mark, did you hear that? Yeah, I heard that. Hey, Merger Allie.

he said how are you Mirko I can't I can't hear well you know okay I understand I'm fine I'm fine thank you

thank you my son all right great yeah it is great to have him back Mirko thank you so much for the time

best of luck to you on April 11th really looking forward to your return and really appreciate you calling in it means a lot to us on Thursday

guys it is a very special anniversary one of the most important ones in the history of our sport April 9th

2005 arguably one of the most important fights in the history of mixed martial arts, and that is no hyperbole, certainly in the history of the UFC. The Ultimate Fighter One finale, Hard Rock Hotel and Casino in Las Vegas, Nevada. Of course, by now, if you're watching this show, if you're listening to it, you know what happened. It was Forrest Griffin versus Stephan Bonner, one of the best fights of all time, and so important as Dana White, Lorenzo Furtita, and everyone involved in the UFC have discussed on many occasions, so important for revitalizing, resurrecting the U.S. UFC after that first season, a lot of unknowns, and it kicked everything off. I actually had the

pleasure of re-watching it this morning on Fight Pass, and the emotion involved, and the heart and the grit and the determination is outstanding. It's something you rarely see in sporting events. And since it is the 10th, 10-year anniversary, this Thursday, April 9th, I thought it would be wonderful to have both men on, two of the most important figures in the history of the UFC on together to reminisce about this fight in this moment and what it meant for them and of course the sport. So I am honored now to welcome in both Forrest Griffin who won that fight and the contract and his opponent, the man he'll be linked to forever that night, Stefan Bonner, who didn't win the fight but also won the contract. They're joining us right now via the phone. Forrest, are you there?

I am here. What's happening? Stefan, are you there? I'm here. Wow. This is great. Thank you so much, guys, for doing it. And congratulations on this anniversary. Forrest, let's start with you. Is it super? Is it? surreal to think that it's been 10 years? Does it feel like it's been 10 years? Less or more? I would definitely feel like it's been 10 years. Yeah, I like for you got that UFC fight pass in there. I was just going to say, you can watch it every day on UFC Fight Pass. What a company man.

Yeah, no, it's definitely been 10 years. When's the last time? Maybe 11. Maybe somebody counted wrong. I don't know. Maybe it was a leap to you in there. No, no, no. It's actually 10 years. When's the last time you watched it for us? probably Colonna British Columbia, right? What's that? Oh, yeah, yeah. Colonna's absolutely right. But I don't remember that.

That didn't end well for me. What's that, Stefan? What are you talking about? It was an appearance we did. Okay. They showed the fight at a comedy club. Or no, it turned into a comedy club. And then we got up there and Forrest just started sucking down line and really it has a pretty

good stand-up routine. But he's got to have a couple bottles of wine in him first, but it's really good, really funny. Yep, yep, a couple bottles of wine, and then probably what it was over, I went and vomited repeatedly. Wow. I figured you to be a guy who can handle your alcohol better. Stefan, what about you? What's it like for you to watch that? I mean, because at the end of the day, you did lose that fight, although no one almost really remembers that because you both won the contract,

and it's held in such high regard, but is it hard for you? Because I think deep down inside you thought you won the fight, right? Right? No, I know it was close. I knew it could have went either way. Yeah, I mean, he won, and I mean, I couldn't have picked a better guy to lose, too. Very well said. Okay, so I want to go back to that moment.

I want to reminisce the whole thing, because, again, like I said, I rewatch it this morning, and what a trip down memory lane it is. Stefan, let's start with you. What was it like backstage? Did you understand what was at stake here other than the contract? Did you know that perhaps the future of the UFC on Spike, the future of the sport, all this stuff that is being talked about 10 years later, did you know that it was that important to the company in the sport,

or in your mind were you just trying to win a fight? Yeah, I just couldn't try to go in there and put on a show and win a fight backstage. I remember Dana coming up to me, congratulate me. I just remember I really had to go to the bathroom. And I was in the stall, and all of a sudden someone found him out of the door. Fighters go to shit. Pound, pound, pound.

Fighters go out of shit. I'm like Diego. I'm a fighter, too. and Diego's trying to bust in there. That's your memory of backstage before the fight? Yeah. I mean, that sounds about right. That sounds about right.

That sounds about, yeah. What about you, Forrest? Anything that you remember in the moments leading up to the fight? What were you thinking? Yeah, I was in, me and Tim Ferrara and were in the locker together. So I'll always, the last thing I remember is Dana comes and says, Hey, if it's close, we've got to be. to have a winner because of the contract, so it'll be a three-minute overtime round.

So, like, when the fight ends, both of us go back to our corner and, like, okay, overtime round. You thought it was going into sudden death? Yeah, I thought, like, sudden death. Not even sudden victory. Yeah, death. Yeah, I did, too. That's why he first came in hug me, and I was like, hey, wait, no hugs just yet. We're not done yet.

Yeah, we've got where to go here. And then, like, it clicked was like, oh, I saw my corner come in and, like, usher me to the chair. And I was like, oh, okay, yeah, yeah. Forrest, you mentioned that you were in the locker room with Kenny. He had just lost to Diego in the final. So technically, Diego is the first ever ultimate fighter winner, although I think a lot of people remember it as you. Did that kind of mess with you at all?

I mean, you were in the locker room with the guy who had just lost in the same kind of tournament? I have always hated that. It kills the vibe, man. You know, it is so, it's rough, you know. It's, uh, yeah, it's worth some killing vibe and the economy and it's horrible. What about for you, Stefan?

You were there with Diego, so did that up your vibe a little bit? Oh, yeah. I mean, being in the same locker room, Diego really gets you pumped up, you know? He's banging his head against the wall and punching himself in the face. Yeah, got me going. And so when he walked back as the winner, did you have a moment with him, or at that point were you locked in?

Yeah, I locked in. I don't even remember I'm coming back. So you guys walk out, and it's amazing looking back because you see a lot of celebrities for 2005 UFC. I see Kevin James there, Michael Clark Duncan. There were a bunch of other people that I noticed in the crowd. What was the atmosphere like in the arena or in the venue for us? Did it feel like, I mean, it wasn't the show, obviously, because there was no one there. But did it feel like anything you had ever experienced in your MMA career at that point? not really it was bigger than anything you know i'd felt in bigger arenas it was a cost pavilion i thought in bigger places but you know because of the way it is it's actually kind of small and it was you know densely packed it was a great it was a great venue

what about for you stephen had you ever experienced anything in that moment did it get to you at all uh no yeah it was the biggest show i had fought and at that point um it was yeah it was pretty surreal i'd say that that and, you know, coming out to that arena, I think during the second row, when everyone started stopping their feet and the place was shaken. Yeah. I'd say that in the fight in Machita and Jungle Fight were two of the most memorable venues for me.

And great call for us, great memory. It was, in fact, the Cox Pavilion. The host hotel was the hard rock, but the fight took place at Cox. Do you recall, Stefan, that Bruce Buffer mispronounced her name both times before and after the fight, he kept calling you Stephen Bonner? Yeah, that's all right. I mean, I don't mind that. You know, he threw an American

psycho in there. Sure. Thanks to Donald Blue as they came at. I was like, don't piss the guy off. If I'm going to fight him, don't piss the guy off, right? Come on, man, you know? You remember this.

Let's, like, make him happy. Let's relax him, you know? Could he have, like, a very, like, passive McMahon, like, you know, the American quilter? Forrest, did you guys have this great relationship on the show and during the lead-up to the fight when you were off the show, or did it only develop after what you experienced together in the cage? Yeah, we didn't really socialize on the show at all or even after, you know? I sized up the two or three biggest threats right away.

I knew he was the guy, you know, I knew. And so, you know, why get close to the guy if you know, and he's on the other team? You know, at some point you're going to end up fighting him. Mike, you know, we sort of like clung to the people we either had already fought or didn't think we'd fight, you know, different with the classes. So, Stefan, you look back at the... Yeah, we got up. Go ahead. We got close there after that fight.

After that fight, you know, the sport blew up and they sent us around, and we did a lot of PR together. But we were always, like... Yeah, even in the emergency room that night, you know? Yeah. My wife went out of Delta. Yeah. Yeah, getting stitched up together. Wait, what was that?

Did you guys actually share the hospital room together? Yeah, we did. That's amazing. I don't know if I ever knew that. He was like, you know, he was like two over, so I just walked over. I was like, hey, man, what's up? Are you doing what you got? I was like, dude, you messed my nose up.

Was it broken? You know, I don't know how broke. Everybody's like, I got a broken nose. Here's what I know. I have a bump on my nose that it was not there before. Like, there's a big knot in my nose that was never there before that day.

So I'm assuming that's what a broken nose is. Stefan, did you hold, you know, you guys were friendly afterwards, but did you hold any resentment? I mean, you just lost the fight. You got the contract, but you wanted that W as well. Was it tough for you to swallow in the moment?

No. I mean, you know, all you could do is go in there and give it your best, and that's what I did. And, you know, I was genuinely happy for him. he fought a great fight and I even said that right afterwards and it's like man I'm so happy for you

like fucking way to push through it you know because I knew in that second you know I had him hurt and he he made it thrill and he won the third so Forrest what was going through your mind in between the first

and second round because in particular in the second even the announcers were noting this you seemed tired they were saying that you were gassing out you couldn't lift your arms Oh I absolutely gas. I absolutely gasped. I was done in that second round. Like, I felt great the first round. I felt sharp. I felt quick. And then, you know, I always tell the tale, like when I'm talking to somebody, you know, I kind of went for that arm bar at the end of the first round. And I made the biggest

mistake. I didn't, I spent a lot of energy and quit breathing when I was going for it because I was, you know, I was like, oh, hey, I can just get the somber. And then I didn't get up off the mat right away. I laid on the mat for about 20 seconds. So when I sat on the stool, it felt to me like, you know, I only had 30 seconds on the stool. So it felt to me like I basically sat down and I like, okay, next

round. I was like, no wait, wait. I didn't get my break. And, you know, it's kind of like, well, for you just out of lay on the canvas for 20 seconds. And I was like, oh my God, where, what are you know? So I just needed a minute. So the stoppage for

blood was the best thing that happened to me. That's right. That was so guys. You know, I just, like, you know, I was just like, all right, I'm going to take this off my face. I'm going to take this off my face, too. And I don't take this off my face. You know, I'm sorry. I was lucky. I got that take down. And when I was from the top, it just, I started pouring blood on Stefan in the record. But, oh, we got to do something about that. Stefan, did you notice he was that tired? And when they stopped it, the check his cut, were you disappointed that he was essentially getting a chance to recuperate?

No, really, I felt good up until, I think it was after that, yeah, we start fighting again. And I got a little break, too. It's like, I started letting my hands go. I remember hit them with a knee and then nice right hand. And then I got really excited, like, oh, I got him, I got him, and I jumped in with a right hand missed. And he tied me up. And I was just thinking, keep my arms loose, finish them, and I wiggled away. And once I broke loose from that, then it hit me that I would.

to cast out too. So, yeah, at that point, it was just, I was done. So you were tired? You were equally as tired? I mean, he got maybe like a minute or so before me, you know? So I felt good. I knew he was gas, and then I tried to

put him away, and I didn't, and he tied me up, I got loose, and all of a sudden, he got himself pride, and he was a big, like, dude, that's how you do it. They'll buggy-bunny strategy. A little bit before he gets exhausted. Forrest, on the broadcast, they mentioned that you had put everything that you owned in 8x10 storage unit. What did they mean by that?

Like, you had to move out and you had nowhere to live leading up to this fight? Well, I just moved from Augusta back to Athens to be there better training to train the hardcore gym. And I put all my stuff in a storage unit that I never paid the fee on. So if you ever see a bunch of 2004 cop stuff and some baseball cards, Those were mine on the auction thing. Yeah. So I just, like, never paid the storage. And then by the time I had enough money to pay the storage,

I was like, man, you know, that stuff's not worth it as much as it would cost you to get it out of storage. I just think it just keep it. So you never got it back? No. There's a couple of flashlights, you know. Yeah. But nothing good. I'm surprised I never popped up on eBay or something like that.

Forrest Griffin's stuff before the tough one finale. You know, when they would do those storage wars, I would. watching like, come on, be my stuff. Are they doing one in Augusta, Georgia? There's not a still-life storage ward on Augusta, Georgia. Stefan, when the fight is over, and you guys are both covered in blood,

and you're tired as hell, and the place is going nuts, what's going through your mind? Do you sincerely believe that you had done enough to win that fight? I mean, I thought, honestly, I knew it was close, so I knew it was just kind of a talk-self, and, you know, I thought

there's a chance I could get the knot. And, you know, and then when he didn't, when he got the nod, it was just like, I can't even say it was that disappointed. I just put everything into it. And it was kind of like, oh, gosh. And, you know, and I went down kind of just because I was so tired, I gave up my all. But, yeah, I wasn't better about it. That's how close fights go, you know, someone gets the nuts. In the back of your mind, did you think there was a chance at all?

you can get a contract as well if you just have a great fight because now we didn't know what to expect from that finale. Now, you know, if you just have a solid run on the show, you're getting some kind of contract. But what did you think? Honestly, at that point, it was like in my mind it was like

you know, the winner goes on to fight in the UFC and gets the contract, you know? As far as I was concerned, when I lost a decision, my mind I was like, okay, well, hey, and now what am I going to do with my life? You know, this was a good experience. I had fun. but, you know, time to move on.

And, yeah, I really was kind of, you know, thinking about, you know, what I was going to do next outside of fighting. Yeah, I kind of caught me by surprise. You got to look at it in terms of 2004, 2005. Yeah. You know, there's only 20 guys in the UFC at that way. There's only two to three UFCs a year. So if you're not one of the main guys in USC, you're not making a living doing it, you know.

There's only, you know, it's like, you know, it's like, Chuck, you know, he only defend his title like five times. You know, there's only like eight fights during his run. You know, there's only two fights a year, three fights a year. So it wasn't like everybody could just make a living fight in the UFC. So you were thinking the same thing for us. You thought it was do or die for you? Yeah, well, I mean, you know, actually after the fight, I knew that, like,

they'd want me back no matter what, win or lose. I was like, yeah, they're going to want me to do that again. Do you recall the crowd booing and yelling bullshit, bullshit. They weren't happy. I don't remember that. I watched it today and I was like, wow, the crowd was actually pretty upset with the decision. Do you remember that for us? Not at all. I don't remember that at all. Really? I don't remember that. Yes, go to Fightpass.com, UFC Fightpass.com. And rewatched the ending. It's unbelievable. They were actually chanting. It's audible, bullshit, bullshit, and booing. I don't remember that.

I just... I was probably just my brother and my best friend, actually. It was pretty loud. His brothers, his brothers were by the cab, brother. They were like, that's crazy talk. I remember, like, I remember coming out and, like, everybody, like, one of the first times of my life, like, people, like, rushed forward, like, to hug me and, like, you know, I just remember a guy handing me a beer. And I was, oh, thanks, bro, and I started drinking beer. And the Athletic Commission guy runs over and says, you're going to take a test right now.

What do you do it? I'm like, oh, oops. I just gave it back. I was like, all right. Okay No drink beer before Prosified Drug Test got it Stefan what about

Do you remember this Do you remember Bruce Buffer Kind of waxing poetic saying Like you have just witness Stuff he never does now Yeah Yeah Yeah I was like

Whoa That's pretty cool Coming up from Yeah It was like It said something To the terms of like You know

Just Witness like the most Exciting Ever inside the Oxygen I was like Oh are you sure me it? that Pedro His Ocourteau was pretty awesome. It's really funny because he never does that sort of thing now, of course.

No, it's a different audience. It's a different market. It's tighter. It's a tighter show. Especially one's on TV. You know, we're going to wax this down to about a bygone air. And that was really cool. He did that.

You know, it made the event that much better. You know, I was fired up. And to take it one step further, I mean, even when Dana announced that Stefan was also getting the contract, you know, Bruce is in the back cheering. It was almost like this family event. Like, you guys were at, you know, one of those like softball games and everyone was rooting for you. There's something you never see now, of course, but it was like they all had been through it, you know, the struggles. And here they are. And in their mind, they knew, wow, something special just happened. It's very surreal to rewatch it because even, you know, Dana is so young and he's all, Dana's doing the post-fight interview.

Rogan didn't even do it. Do you remember that? I mean, it felt very familial, if you know what I'm saying. Neither, you know... Well, Rogan interviewed us. Rogan interviewed us, but then Rogan interviewed Dan. Are you sure? Because I just re-watched it, and there's no... Unless they cut it out, there's no Rogan interview. Yeah, they must have cut it out.

He did interview me. That's weird. Yeah, because he... I remember him having the mic, and I remember saying just a couple things. Like, it's something like, I love you, Dandria, and we're going to walk around, like, she's ugly at so bees now. But yeah, that was when I told the mic from Rogan said that. Yeah, I don't think he actually asked me.

And he just grabbed the bike. Yeah, it's a good fight. You know, it's a good fight. Like, when the guy comes in, and before he can ask a question, you start talking. You're like, hey, right, yeah, yeah. You know, he's trying to ask a question. You're like, no, do that bike. Forrest, you got a sion, and you also got a watch from the jewelers of Las Vegas,

which you then promptly, when Dana gave it to you, you said, I could pawn this. That's what Stefan won't tell you. He actually didn't need a car, but we were both in dire need of a car, too. So you were excited about that. I needed a car at that point. My car was junk, and it was also, like, a property of a tow yard, and I had to pay a bunch to get it out. It wasn't even worth that money.

I was really hoping for a car. Forrest, did you actually pawn the watch? Because you said that, and it was very audible. No, I never did. In fact, I don't wear it. No, I just got it, like, clean and got a new band for it, and now I wear it. You know, when you're working out three times a day, jewelry has no purpose. But now, you know, now it's like, hey, you know, wear a nice watch.

Wait, you actually have the watch? You still have it? I have the watch. I have the scion. Wow. There was a dirt bike, I think. Yes. A little like a mini bike. Somebody stole that at my parents' garage. I think, I don't know. Yes, yes.

Dana said to you, when he gave you the bike, please don't ride this thing. Did you ever ride it? No, I never did. I never saw it. It was like your mini-bikes anyway. Yeah. I've never saw it, so I don't even know.

Stefan, how are you going to celebrate April night this Thursday? Are you going to do anything to commemorate this moment? This changed your life. Yeah, I'm probably going to egg for his house or something. Be it eggs. Yeah. Key his eye on. When's a lot?

When's the last time... You keep my sty on it. It's got like 300,000 miles on it. I'll buy it off you now. When's the last time you guys hung out? We could share it. We could share it. I just got to get a new windshield.

I can't... I haven't paid my fees on it. I've got to get a new windshield in the new times. When's the last time you guys hung out with each other? We had a United Nissan commercial like a week ago or less. What kind of commercial? United Nissan. Oh, wow. The car?

Yeah. Like a car, yeah. Like a car. A car, delicious. This is a national commercial or just for Vegas? Just for a Vegas. Oh, local. Okay, wow. Yeah, so we've been shooting those now. We probably shot about five together. And of course...

Yeah, we've done a bunch, yeah. Famously, uh, famously, uh, Stefan named his son after you for us. What was your reaction when you found out about that? Well, he just, I mean, it's also a cool man. Sure, of course. Like, if I turn out to be a total douche, Griffin's actually just a cool name.

You know, family guy. So, I know you named the son off of me. Griffin Bonner just, I have a very, like, fortunately, it's got a good ring to it. Sure. I always hear that, go, Griffin-Botter. It's like, it's very masculine, like, hyper-masculate. Like, you know, I was worried that, like, he never said Griffin-Botter,

and he'd be, like, a little, like, book, or, I said, you know, like, Griffin-Botter. Oh, I thought he'd be bigger. You know, sometimes guys, people have mixed feelings about sequels, and sometimes they're just kind of a race from our memory. And, of course, you guys fought each other a second time, but no one ever talks about that fight. Stefan, would you prefer it be that way?

I mean, it didn't quite live up. It was almost impossible to live up to the first one, right? Yeah, I mean, that night I really didn't want to be there. I was supposed to get elbow surgery and I'm not putting elbow surgery off. I just fought like three times in like four months and kind of was a wreck. So I was, you know, like I didn't go for it. It was more like a six weeks notice too, right? Yeah, yeah.

I was scheduled to do like a U.S.O tour, like in the middle, like right before the fight. I was scheduled to like go, you know, do like a three-week U.S.O tour. And I was like fired up, like, you know, getting like visas and pay. paperwork and they were like, oh, no, no, you're going to fight on this. You know, but it was a chocolate out card. So it was like, all right, that'll be cool. Did you guys see, go ahead, sorry? I remember 10 days out, I got a cut, like, over my left eye.

It had like 12 stitches or something. Dana flew me out to Vegas and had a doctor look at it. And he's like, yeah, he can't fight. So it was actually called off. And I went out to the Cubs game with my dad, and I was drinking. And then I got a call from Dana. like, oh, we really need this fight, you know. Then I was like, yeah, what the hell?

So that was another concern in the fight. I was like, oh, I don't want them. The bus just cut open. I better not be too addressed. I don't know if you guys saw this, but just a couple weeks ago on our website, there was a big feature on Jason Thacker. Do you remember Jason Thacker? Yes, dude, that was an awesome story.

Yes. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It was written by Chuck Minnandall, so I want to give him the credit. Are you, what were your emotions for us? And after reading it, I can see that Chuck Mendenhall in his writing style also likes to rip off on S. Thompson. I do believe... About the only writer that rips off under his Thompson. That's good.

But what do you think? I mean, he's gone through a lot since that, and it, you know, unlike you guys, it wasn't, you know, it was maybe life-changing in a bad way for him. And I'm just wondering what you guys thought about reading someone who's still sort of struggling with the aftermath of being on that show. Did you have any idea? No, no. Only me and a friend, our mutual friend, Shohenhow, I was showing how we used to joke, like the factor, you know,

wouldn't really cut out to be a fighter, but then, like, you'd be in a hospital somewhere and be like, pageing back to soccer, and it'd be like, you'd be like getting your car service and be like, Jason's back, you know, just that he'd, like, pop up in some random place, you know? What about you, Stefan? Have you read that?

Where's Waldo from? No, of course, is telling me about it. Sad to hear that. I didn't know. I guess on the show, he was like on a bunch of different antidepressants, and they didn't let them take those, right? Uh-huh. Correct.

Yeah, what's the, do you know the deal with that? Because I'm 100% certain if you tell people, like, you're on a lot of drugs, they won't put you on reality shows. Yeah, that is a good point. Yeah, are they at least to make sure you had your medication? But, you know, usually there's like a big liability. Like, what I'm thinking is that maybe he wasn't quite up front about the medication at first, you know? Because that's an easy eliminator.

Oh, you're on a bunch of medication. Ooh, you know. I don't know. Maybe, you know, 2004, man. Maybe things were different. Yeah, it was the wild west as far as reality. Yeah. Yeah, it's a good point, yeah.

Okay, so let's end on this. When you think back to that moment for us, when you think back to the fight, the night, everything that changed. changed your life. What's the moment that sticks out? What's your favorite thing that happened that night? Oh, man. That's helpful, man. Probably in the second round when I was just gasped, and like, you know, after they kind of restarted us and the people start stomping, you know, time just a little bit more. That was one of the coolest things ever happened to me. How about you, Stefan? probably the hanging out in the emergency room

I really remember that and then I had never tried Viagra before and then Forrest came me a Viagra that night and I tried it so Yeah really? I don't remember

I always had a bunch Yeah I was a good I never have one of these It's hot The long time I go for I met my life What a good friend that's what friends are for right there

and by and so let's end on this because you're the of the bunch you're the last one to fight Stefan you still got another one in you or are you done something like really comes along that sparks my interest because that's pretty content to be retired before and then you know bell atore offered me keto like right away and it's like oh god like you know what that sounds like fun And it was. It was fun in there.

And he gave me a good fight. As much as I hate him, he pushed me, and I had to dig deep. And it was a good, it was a good fun fight. But just all the other stuff, you know, all the training and preparation and cut weight. Like, that isn't fun anymore. I used to really enjoy that. It just wasn't as fun, all the wrestling. And one thing you don't want to be said when you're at the end of your career,

and, you know, it's your last fight coming. on retirement, you don't want to set a record for the most amount of weight cut the day of weigh-ins, which I did. I cut like 19 pounds and four hours. It's something you want to do early in your career. So sure, it's a new personal PR for me, personal record, but I don't think you should be doing that at the end of the career. Good point. Hey, by the way, Forrest, last thing to you, is it true that you lied about your age on the show? Wait, who? Which one? Me? Yes, Forrest.

Yeah. You did? Okay, yeah. I said, wait. What step and said? Okay, fair enough. We will leave it at that, and I want to remind everyone that starting today on UFC FightPass.com, they are turning it into Forest Pass. All kinds of great content. You can watch the show. They have retrospective documentaries. The full season is available. and also Forrest is on there picking and introducing his favorite fights. So it's Forrest Pass, and a small little anecdote, you guys don't remember this,

but for the Tough Three finale in Las Vegas, that card was headlined by Kenny Florian and Sam Stout. I was working as like a production assistant for a company that was contracted by SpikeTV.com to produce the tough three finale pre-fight show on SpikeTV.com, and I got to work with you guys. It was the first... Yeah, we did that. I remember that. Yeah. It was the first UFC event that I ever attended in person, and it was such a thrill for me to work with both of you.

You were the host. It was a lot of fun, so I thank you for that memory, and I thank you for coming on this show to reminisce. Congratulations, Mazel Tov on the 10-year anniversary this Thursday. Enjoy it, and thank you for everything that you guys did for us. This moment will be one we'll never forget, and it's certainly, and in my opinion, I don't think it's over-exaggerated. I certainly think that it helped keep the UFC alive. So from all the UFC fans, from all the MMA fans, thank you to both of you. That's what we're going to tell people anyway. Thank you. Thank you, guys. Thank you, Stefan. Thanks. Thank you, guys. Cheers.

There they are. Thanks, guys. Boris Griffin, Stefan Bonner, we will never forget it. It has been, honestly, it has been a year, a year since I've been trying to get our next guest on the program. And then when the news broke that he was finally going to be inducted into the UFC Hall of Fame, I thought, wow, this is my chance. Well, I took some time there. We finally got it done. I am so excited. I am so honored. I just can't even put into words just how great it is to say, B.J. Penn, the prodigy, is joining us right now on the phone, right here on the MA hour. BJ, are you there? What's going on, Ariel?

Wow. It is so great to hear your voice. Did you know I've been trying to reach you for a year? Every angle possible, your brother, your mother, rich. Finally, the great Aunt Evans made it. happen. He was the only one who could get it done. Thank you so much for coming on. It's so great to have you on the show. Great to be on the show. Great to be on the show. So congratulations on this big news. You are being inducted into the UFC Hall of Fame on July 11th. What was your reaction when you found out that, all right, here it comes. Hall of Fame or BJ Penn? I was very excited. You know, a great way to go out and a great way to kind of just, you know, finish it up and, you know, put myself at ease a little bit, but you know what was even better than getting inducted?

Well, I don't know, I didn't get inducted yet, though. But what was even better was just everybody's positive support from it. You know what? I didn't get any, you know, any backlash or any this and that. It's just everybody so positive, and it was a very nice way to end the show. Backlash. Who would disagree with you going into the Hall of Fame? Did you really think anyone would have a problem?

with this? No, no, no. I don't know, just, you know, just, I guess sometimes I'm a very controversial man and, you know, but everything was very positive and was very well taken by me. Who called to tell you the news? How did you find out? Dana, Dana, actually. Wow. You know, Dana, Dana, Dana let me know. And what was that like? You know, considering your history with him, and I know it's a lot better now, but, you know, a guy that you've been very, close with, you had your ups and downs, and you ended, you know, on a good note. What was it like to hear it from him? And what did you guys talk about? He just said, you know, to keep it, I think he was keeping a date from me for a little bit,

but he said, you know, keep it quiet, and they're going to do something. And they don't let me know, you know, because of BJPen.com, they don't let me know ahead of time what's going on. So, you know, they really got to push it out there before I get it out there. What's going on over there with BJPen.com? Are you happy with, you know, it's a controversial website. You know this, right? Controversial as in. Well, it's, you know, that's all we do.

We just push news out of there. And I think it's a different type of website. It's not affiliated to anybody. It's not affiliated with the UFC. It's not affiliated with USA today. It doesn't have any big affiliation with anybody. very independent. Right.

The thing about BGipen, Ben.com, it's very, very independent. We don't have anybody leading us in any way with whatever we do. Of course,

you know, I have friends in the industry, you know, of course, you know, that's how we could be led, you know, by friends of ours.

But, you know, besides that, you know, we're, you know, that's all it is. It's just an independent news agency

and we, you know, we, you know, we do, we do our right traffic. Yeah, I would imagine,

especially with your name attached to it. So, like I said, I've been trying to get you on this show for a year. I wanted to talk to you. We missed you. We got a guy in the back there in New York, Rick, who's probably your biggest fan. This guy, he worships you back there.

I want to know, what has the last year been like for you? What have you been doing since you're fighting against Frankie Edgar? I've just been hanging on the heelo watching the kids and just cruising. You know, whatever businesses. I got going. I'm just trying to take care of those as much as I can. And, you know, I try to keep myself either, you know, busy physically or, you know, or something. I really like to be involved with business.

I mean, hence you see Bjapan.com out there, you know, trying to make a buck. And, you know, it's just, you know, it's just moving forward with whatever I got going. Do you miss the fight game? You know what? I don't miss. I don't miss three-month training camp. I don't miss that. I don't miss fight week. I don't miss the three-month training camp. I don't miss fight week. But I do miss being the baddest man on the planet. You ever get that itch? You ever see a fight and an opponent and say, I could fight that guy? I could beat that guy. Oh, I think that all the time. You know, and then I see Mike Tyson's coming back now against James Tony. Yeah, I don't know if that's 100%. But you know what's amazing, though, is. Oh, go ahead. I'm sorry, Ariel.

No, no, no, no. I was just going to say, I'm not sure if it's 100%, but yes, I've seen those reports as well, and he's obviously older than you. Yes, and it does blow me away, though, when I see, you know, Verdum just got the belt at 37, and then you see Mark Hunt still fighting at 40 and, you know, all these different things, and, you know, it is amazing. I don't know. You know, it's just, they're out there, they're doing it. You know what?

Looking all these years back, you know, you know, you know, you know, you're just, you know, You know, it ain't the speed, it ain't the technique, it ain't the power, you know, it's who wants it the most. And that's, you know, over time, you know, maybe, you know, as you start getting into it, the people start coming along that love it more than you do, you know. And, you know, but here you go. You got, you know, like Mark Hondake, he was right there for a title shot and he, you know, and he stayed around for a lot. He had a couple of losses when he got to the UFC.

He stayed in and stayed in it, and he was one fight away from a title shot. So, or no, where he was in the title, she was in the interim fight, right? Sure, yeah, he was in the fight, yeah. Look at that. When I see stuff like that, I'm like, man, if you didn't just stick around for a little while, something would just click and you just, you know, you'd be back. Of course, we'll pop. You also have one fight away or whatever.

Yeah, and you have Robbie Lawler, who's a champion. You have Barnett who's coming back. Right. That's what I mean. He's crazy. Yeah. It is. You know, what about how it all ended in Las Vegas around a year ago? I mean, a lot of people, including myself, would say that's not the BJ Penn that we remember

that we loved so much. It just didn't seem like it was you out there. I don't know if it was the weight cut, the technique, the game plan. Does that bother you that it ended like that? No, definitely. Definitely. I was in my mind for a long time. But, I mean, I'm sitting here right now, you know, I mean, the first thing that a fighter

would want to do at a time like that is go go right back in the training camp and go, I got to go do this again, I have this and that. I do feel that it is one of my, you know, I do feel that something I'm proud of that as I sit here right now, that I can just kind of let stuff like that and all kind of go. But I mean, as being a fighter, it is hard, you know, but I mean, if you're not standing in the octagon, then you must be retired, you know. Do you still watch the sport and follow it? Do you get excited about the fights? hard to watch them.

You know, but there's so many fights now. Of course, I can't keep up with everything, but I'll watch a big title fight, you know, and I'll watch, you know,

I probably know the Hawaii fighters and I know the champions. You know, that's about what I know. And then, I mean, as far as watching on television or keeping up,

and then, of course, BJPEN.com, I'm going to check that. So I kind of know, like, little stuff, you know, going on. But if I'm going to sit down and change my day or take a Saturday and turn it on,

it's probably going to have to be like John Jones versus Cormier or, you know what I mean, Kane Velas versus Viras. I didn't even get to see that fight, but it can't just be a regular title fight. It's got to be two guys with like one of the old, one of the old must go kind of thing. You know, I always want to see the best fight. Sure. You know, a lot of fans have asked me to ask you this question. Of course, you've retired from the UFC.

It sounds like that's pretty secure, but what about a Meta Morris, an IBJF, something like that? Are you interested in going back to your grappling routes so fans can still see you in action? You know, I would honestly, in the last year I haven't really even... I don't think... I went in the gym and I did some cardio and some stuff, but honestly, I haven't even done martial arts this last year.

I just been kind of relaxing and just catching up with stuff that I missed out on in life. And instead of being in the gym all the time, I get in the gym and do cardio and stuff for my health and try to, you know, stay healthy with that kind of stuff. But I haven't, I mean, the truth is I haven't even done martial arts this year. Okay. So it has... Stop buying the gym and just a little stuff, yeah. Maybe in the future, you think?

Because you're a young guy. Well, I guess I'm young if you see that the guy just won the UFC Heavy Championship at 37, right? Right, right. I don't know who, it's just how much you're into it. And, you know, maybe sometimes it's not ages, it's miles, you know. Right. You have a car, you know, yeah. So who knows?

Never know. But you don't think you'll ever fight again, right? Yeah, I don't see myself with a, with a, with, with a strong will to one who... You never know. You never know what the future could hold. You never know what could pop up, but I got no desire to jump into a training camp

and try to go out there. Wouldn't it to be something, you know, we have this sort of second coming of a great Hawaiian fighter in the form of Max Holloway, representing Wynai, right? The great city of Wynai. Wouldn't it be something if he can get, finally, the UFC, to come to Hawaii?

I don't know if you'll fight in it, but that would be pretty cool for you, right? That would be awesome. What do you think of Max? I'll definitely go and watch. What do you think of Max? I think Max is a great guy and very confident, and he's on it. He's on it right now. I just stay to what he's doing and stay focused, and I will not be surprised at all to see that guy, you know, walk through everybody as time goes on.

And he's still so young. He's still only 20 years old. I think he's a little older than 20. But he's still... Yeah, what is he now? Is he 22, 23? He's under 25, for sure. So he's...

Okay. He's got a long ways to go. So now that you could put a bow on your entire career, what would you say was the greatest moment? What's the moment that you think about? Maybe when you're, you know, sleeping, your head is on your pillow. You know, you're saying good night to the day. What's that moment that, wow?

If I could just go back to that moment... My greatest moment in my whole career is when I became the first... non-Brazilian to win the Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu World Championships. Wow. That was my greatest moment. So not UFC related, not the belts, nothing. Yeah, my martial arts career. Why is that?

That started it all. And, you know, it's just kind of like you hope, you know, and when they go and look back at judo, like, hey, who is the first guy that won in Japan that was in Japanese? You know, and that's, you know, kind of time goes on. it means more and more to me. Wow. And what about any regrets?

Anything you look back and say, I wish I did this differently? Too few to mention. Really? But, I mean, you can walk away with your head held high, right? I mean, we all have regrets in our life. But I don't think it's anything

that really eats you up inside, is it? As life goes on, life just gets harder, and that's the mark of a man, just keeping your head up, right? Not taking the easy way out. You keep your head up. So you're going to be in Las Vegas for the induction on July 11th,

and then we have one of the most anticipated fights ever. Later on that night, UFC 189, Aldo versus McGregor, and I think it's very apropos that you're being inducted because you're the man who put the lightweight fighters on the map. I mean, if it wasn't for you, who knows if we even have an Aldo or McGregor? It's a nice tie-in. Do you have any thoughts on these fighters? I know Aldo there's a connection there from Novo Nia,

but what about McGregor? This is a guy who's taking the sport by store, Are you a fan of his? You know what? I'm Bjapan.com is definitely sure a fan of Connor McGregor, right? With the topic that he brings in on different stuff. Right. No, I'm definitely enjoying.

I'm definitely enjoying this whole build-up to this whole fight. Connor's keeping it interesting and all those, you know, the greatest of all time for the featherweight. So, you know, I'm very excited. I want to see what happens. Who do you think wins? You know, this whole thing with Aldo's rib, you know, I don't know what's going to happen with the whole fight and everything. But I don't know, maybe, you know, maybe it's just, maybe it is Conner's time, and maybe it's that good.

Maybe it's just, you know, maybe he's not that good at all. I still don't know. You know, a lot of times I'll be sitting next to someone who doesn't know the sport that good, and they look at me, they're watching, and they look at me and say, what do you think about that, what just happened? and I'll say the same thing that you thought. You know, so I'm kind of just as the same as everyone else. You know, we're going to find out if Connor is the real deal still. Have you ever fought with injured ribs?

Yes, of course. I mean, going into a fight, I mean, are you ever going to get a chance to go in 100% to a fight? No, and if you're not hurt, then you probably didn't train hard enough or whatever, you know. But, you know, it's a strange thing that news is already out there. Yeah. Because if you did have a herd rib, you'd be high. it, right?

Sure. You wouldn't be telling everybody, and then do it, and then do it anyway. So it's just, you know, it's a, it's a controversial night period, I guess. Right. So I hear that you live, I guess you live like in the woods or something. It's very hard to reach you, right? You have a very, you live in an area where the cell reception isn't great, right? Oh, yeah, yeah.

No, we have a little farm down there. But I'm in Hilo, and I'm over there a lot. either side, but the other place of Whitefield Valley, they don't have too much, doesn't have any good cell reception out there. Are you happy? Are you happy? Yes. Yes.

Well, that's good. Very. That's great to hear. BJ, I got to say, as I say goodbye, I'm getting a little emotional. I miss you. And, you know, I've tried so hard to get you on this show for the past year, and I'll never forget just how nice you were to me as I could be selfish here for a second, having you on my show. You know, I'll never forget in Australia when you said that you wanted a percentage,

and I'll still hold you to that. I have no problem with hooking you up with that, and you've just been so great. They don't make them like you, and I think everyone misses you. It's really great to see that you're being inducted into the UFC Hall of Fame. I'm great. I'm so happy that they're finally recognizing you and that you're going to get to be a part of UFC 189. You deserve to be there, and I hope that everyone comes out there to celebrate you because you deserve that as well. one of the greatest ever, and it's amazing when I hear fighters talk about you with such admiration. You've meant so much to so many people. It's just really nice to see, and it's so great to hear your voice.

Honestly, I say that sincerely. So I really want to thank you for coming on the show, and I want to congratulate you on this great honor, and I hope to see you on July 11th. Thanks for all our kind words, Ariel. Thank you very much. Okay. See, Mayor. Yes.

Easy, brother, and say hello to your family, especially your mother. Okay. All right. Okay, Ariel, you take it easy. You take care. We'll talk soon. All right, there he is. I hope we will talk sooner rather than later.

There he is. BJ Penn. Amazing stuff from him. And honestly, I've been trying to get him on the show for quite some time. Really a year. Yeah, I really got emotional there for some reason. The UFC 2015 Hall of Fame induction ceremony will take place Saturday, July 11th at 11 a.m. on the main stage at the UFC Fan Expo.

It is free to anyone who has an expo ticket. If you are one of the unlucky ones who can't be in Las Vegas for the UFC Fan Expo or UFC 189 or the tough finale or Invicta on Thursday, well, you can watch it live on UFC FightPass.com. It will be a one-hour show, and what I'm told is it will be unlike the previous Hall of Fame induction ceremonies. Remember, there's a home.

new system in play. Four wings. We have the fight, pioneer, modern day, modern era, legend. BJ Penn going in as modern era. Support for this show comes from Odu. Running a business is hard enough. So why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? Introducing Odu. It's the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all-in-one fully integrated platform that makes your work easier. CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, and more. And the best part, O-DU replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. That's why over thousands of businesses have made the switch.

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