MMA Fighting - The MMA Hour with Ariel Helwani - Episode 298

Episode Date: September 21, 2015

Ariel Helwani speaks to Josh Barnett, Henry Cejudo, Urijah Faber, Eddie Alvarez, Michael Chiesa, Nick Diaz's lawyer Lucas Middlebrook, and Luke Thomas. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I'm Ariel Hawani inside our New York City studio, and it is so good to be here on a Monday afternoon. Beautiful New York, fall time. I mean, it doesn't get any better than this, and I know the last month has been a little weird for all of us. It was like four weeks ago we had that crazy show. then we were off due to some fall maintenance. Then it was a Labor Day Tuesday show. Last week we were off due to Rosh Hashanah. By the way, happy New Year to all my brothers and sisters out there.

And if you are fasting tomorrow night for Yom Kippur, I hope it is a easy and fast and a healthy fast is what I should say. I hope it goes pretty fast for you. I'll be doing that. But it's great to be here on a Monday because there's so much to discuss. missed all of you, it just feels right. And the good news is we're not going anywhere for the foreseeable future. No weird weeks coming up, at least for the next couple months. So that's great news. Back to normal. And like I said, so much to discuss because this past week in particular

was a very interesting one. It was a non-UFC weekend. And sometimes those are not the most exciting. But we had a lot going on this weekend. We had WSOF, great fight between Justin Gae and Louis Palomino. I mean, if those two fight a hundred more times, it would be great for a WSF. It doesn't really make a lot of sense both from a booking and divisional standpoint, also from a health standpoint. I mean, the amount of damage

these two inflict upon each other is incredible, but still, it was a solid card, solid showing for them. And then, of course, Beltor Dynamite on Saturday, wow, a lot to digest there. A lot to unpack. We'll be doing that throughout this show. But bigger than

those events, bigger than Japan coming up bigger than UFC 192, bigger than anything right now. And one of the more important events in the recent history of this sport transpired exactly a week ago. And sometimes in this sport, things happen. People get all up in arms. They get very upset. They tweet. They boycott.

They say all kinds of crazy things. and then a few days later, it all kind of fizzles out. It happened with John Fitch when he was released. Happen with Stitch Duran, Bert Watson, Reebok as of late. And these things become a campaign, they become a thing, and then it's on to the next fight. I hope that what happened to Nick Diaz last Monday isn't just a thing that fizzles out. I hope it becomes something and it will remain something that we talk about for weeks, and months to come until it's rectified. Because as I said on Thursday on the MA beat, it was one of the

most disgusting four-hour stretches in the history of this sport. The abuse of power exemplified by the Nevada Athletic Commission. The disregard for the facts and for what's right and for due process was just mind-boggling. It was ridiculous. It was appalling. I mean, any kind of adjective that you want to use really describes what we saw a week ago in Nevada. And it has evolved a little bit. We'll be talking about it. I want to talk about it a lot more today. And I want to keep talking about it because until this thing is fixed, until Nick Diaz has his five-year suspension fixed and amended and taken away, I won't stop talking about it because it was gross. It has nothing to do with Nick, by the way. As a person or a fighter, it's what they did to someone. And this is not like,

you know, Bert or Paul Daly or John Fitch or Yushin Okami, this is not someone getting cut and then being able to go to another league or promotion or another line of work. They have taken away his ability to make money. They have said you cannot fight Nevada and as a result you cannot fight anywhere in the world because UFT is going to go by that. And I'm okay with that. If that's the way you want to, you know, you want you want to treat Nevada, but this guy can't work now for five years. What he's best at, he cannot do. That's a problem. All right, we're going to talk about that. all throughout the show, a lot to discuss. Around 330, we'll get your questions and comments.

I know a lot of it pertains to Nick Diaz, so looking forward to that. 305, we're going to talk to Uriah Faber, who, of course, is a coach on the Ultimate Fighter season 22, alongside Conne McGregor. A lot to talk about with Uriah Fabor. The Dwayne Ludwig saga continues to roll on, so I want to talk to him about that. Always great to have Yeriah on the show, of course. Nick Diaz's attorney, Lucas Middlebrook, who kind of ended up being like the star. of the show, if you want to call it that. It did feel like a reality show in some ways. It was not scripted. It was unfortunately nonfiction, but he really stepped up big for his client.

Lucas Middlebrook, not a household name, but maybe the most important figure from the past week. We'll be joining us at 245. 225. Michael Keese will stop by officially announced last week that he'll be fighting Jim Miller, December 10th. That show headline by Page Van Zent versus Joanne Calderwood. Eddie Alvarez, we'll stop by at 205. Want to talk to him about what's next. Is it Anthony Pettus? Is it someone else? We'll find out.

Josh Barnett stops by at 145. Of course, in less than a week, he'll be fighting in Saitama. First time in almost 10 years for Josh Barnett. He'll be fighting Roy Nelson. And at 125, we're going to be joined by our own Luke Thomas to recap Dynamite and the other news of this past week. But first up, is a guy who, you know, kind of maybe. to a degree unintentionally, became a huge new story last week when, you know, him and his

manager, Bill McFarland, just pretty much laid out how disgusting, how appalling, how wrong Nevada was a week ago. And it became a huge thing. He became a hero, in a sense, for both Nick and his fans and everyone involved, people have followed suit. But he was, he was the first to stand up and say, you know what, what Nevada did was wrong, and as a result, I will not be fighting in Nevada for the foreseeable future. I'm talking about the Olympic gold medalist turn UFC flyweight, Henry Sohudo. He joins us right now on the phone. Henry, are you there? Ah, yeah, how you doing, Error? Thank you for having me. It is a pleasure. Thank you so much for the time. Let's start from the beginning.

When you found out what Nevada did to Nick Diaz a week ago, what was your immediate reaction? No, well, my immediate reaction was just something that was just unjust. You know, throughout the period of 2004 and 2012, and I've probably been tested about 100 times by USADA, but never have I ever run into a case where somebody has been tested three times in a span of, and in a span of probably 12 hours. I mean, to me, it's something that's unjust and I feel like an Olympic athlete

now a youth see fire I think we need to I feel like I have this bag because I have been there before and not to discount the fact that you know he passed two tests and the only test that came back negative

was a test that wasn't even you know credited by WADA which is the world you know which was WADA so to me it was just like man it was I feel like like Nick Deer

was targeted from the get-go. And I just can't sit there, man, and let this be suspended for five years. I couldn't be able to live with myself because I've been through this process from the age of 17 to, you know, to the age of 26. And now I'm sorry, I'm back over again with, you know, back with you, Sada. And correct me from wrong, Henry. You don't really have much of a relationship with Nick. I was talking to your manager, Bill McFarlane, about this.

This isn't so much. And again, I want you to expand on this. This isn't so much about Nick Diaz. It's about this abuse of power, if you will, right? No, absolutely. I've never even spoken to Nick. I don't, I've never even, probably, I've never even seen him, I think, in person. Maybe I've seen him once.

I never really, I've never talked to him. I think it is abuse of power. I think them just coming up with some random five-year band to somebody. that had one negative test out of three, which was tested three talents. I think they should have just tested them once or maybe even twice the first time and the third time. But so it happened to be in this case, you know, the second test came back negative. But again, it was, you know, it was a local agency that took care of it, which wasn't even accredited by water. So I feel like Nick Diaz has a case here.

and, you know, it's just, it's doing what's right, Ariel. I think a lot of us, we tend to kind of sometimes think about ourselves, but I know when I heard the Nick Diaz came and I saw, I saw the penalty that he got, I saw some of the prior fighters, how they kind of got away with murder. For me, it was like, man, this is, something needs to be done. I think, I think the, you know, the athletic, the Nevada State Athletic Commission really, you know, I think they need to be processed in someone. I think they really need to look into them thoroughly and check them out

because, like I said before, NIGDIS was targeted, and that's not right, man. That's not right. I've never in my life have I ever been tested. And I'm an Olympic champion area. I've trained all across the world. I've been to so many countries. Never have I been tested three times in a spend of a day, pretty much. So it's one thing to be upset about it. It's one thing to tweet about it. It's one thing to talk about it in interviews. But you and Bill McFarland took this thing a whole other level. I mean, you came out there before anyone else and said, until this is fixed, and as a result of this, most importantly, you have no interest in fighting in Nevada and you will not fight in Nevada. How did you come to that conclusion? Because as you know, they call Las Vegas the fight capital of the world.

world, it's the backyard of the UFC. It's in a very important city and state for the UFC. How did you come to the conclusion that this is what you want to put out there? It's a risky thing, but it's something that you have received, as I said at the top, a lot of praise for. Well, yeah, absolutely. I mean, you think of some of the great leaders that have done so well. You think of Nelson Mandela. You think of them all that they're king. You know, these guys never really fought back with fists, with violence, but they came back with, you know, with protests. you know, he looked back at

Assasar Chavez in the early 60s. What do you do? He boycotted, you know, people not to, you know, not to buy, you know, not to buy grapes at that time. And, you know, these people, you know, they became successful

because they did it in a matter where, you know, the people actually needed them. And I think in this case, you know, the Nevada State Athletic Commission will someday need an elite fighter to be there and because they have

took an authority and have surpassed and have overpowered authority you know it may not happen and I'm not here to start a rally because I know we have a big USC that's coming up in believe it's December 13th or 12th with a lot of these great actors

with Connor McGregor headlining did and Wydeman you know I definitely don't want to sidetrack that event I'm just here to take stand for my personal view. And I just, I just couldn't do it, Ariel. Even if that means leaving a belt on the line

and allowing somebody else to fight whoever has about that time, I am willing to do that. I'm willing to show the type of person, type of character that I am, and how the fact that I'm very touched by what happened to Nick Diaz.

And I think if I take a stand, you know, it's going to show something. Again, I'm not here to kind of have a dominole if I can have every other fighter do it at this time. But if it's hard felt, you know, I, you know, I beg you guys to do it because this is something that's unjust. I think that fighters, we do need to have each other's back. And maybe it might be even time for a union. So you said a lot there that I want to ask you about.

The first thing is I heard from a lot of people immediately after, you know, this statement was made public. They said, oh, yeah, just watch when he's offered a fight against Demetrius. He's going to be fighting in Vegas if that's the place. You're saying right here and now, if you win your next fight and it's time for a title shot and they want to do it in Vegas, you say thanks but no thanks. Exactly. Okay. And I'll talk to Dana White about it.

Has he called you since this came out? No, he has not. He has not. And I really don't have a relationship with Dana White. So I think a lot of things would probably maybe even be different because I would love for him to actually. should we get to No week? Yeah. But I would say no.

And the reason is, like, oh, I'm crazy, and you're crazy. Like, hey, guys, I've been here before. I understand what it, what it, I understand. I truly understand what it needs to be the best world. You know, I won the Olympics at the age of 21. I know what it feels like to be the best in the world. And there's seven billion people in the planet. He said you're literally the best.

No controversy, nothing. You won the toughest tournament in the whole. world. I know what it feels like. So to me, it's not so much based on success as much. As a competitor, I want to succeed and I want to accomplish anything. But to me, I can nickname the messenger

is to do what's right, to send a good message out. Will I become a UFC champion someday? I know I will. Do I need to do it now? Maybe I don't have to. Maybe I'm willing to protest for the sake of this man who's been

wrongly processed with five-year-back. I mean, that's, that's ridiculous. And, you know, and I feel like they, you know, because, you know, he took, he took the stand of his Fifth Amendment, the fact that he wasn't, he wasn't willing to say anything in court, because as you notice, Nick Diaz, he has anxiety when he speaks. He has, you know, it's almost like, he almost like, I feel like, you know, he had, I think it was a good plan for him and his lawyers would be like, hey, Nick, just settle down. And let's, let's just not, let's, let's just take the stand.

just let the lawyers take care of it. Because as you see, he's a very emotional guy. And he'll tell you what he thinks on in the stance. I think they took a great approach. But I think the way the Nevada State Athletic Commission, the way they handled the situation was just, you know, it reminds me of the movie, The Hurricane. I'm not to you have seen that with Gentile Washington.

Yeah. Actually, who was wrongly accused of murder. And, you know, 30 years or 30 years of, 20 years later, they find out that it wasn't him, and he was just wrongly accused because he was an African-American. And this is how I feel about Nick Diaz is the fact that, okay, he passed the first test, all right, leave him alone, test him again after the fight, but no, he was targeted, and they test him the second time and the third time.

It's just like, hey, man, that's just too much. I mean, that's a lot of pressure for one fighter to feel in one night. And you probably wonder why he lost. I mean, it's for modest people. You know, hey, piss here, piss there. You know, lift your pants up. Right. So your pants are three different times.

I mean, that's just not cool. Yeah, I mean, he was tested once in the 7 o'clock hour, then the 10 o'clock hour after the fight, and then the 11 o'clock hour, and they proved quite convincingly that it is impossible to, you know, to rehydrate to the point where everything's out of your system between the second and the third test. that that second test definitely seems to be some kind of outlier and for some reason Nevada is hanging its hat on it and ignoring the other two tests.

Now I want to ask you, you mentioned the U word and, you know, I guess, I guess officially because you are independent contractors, you can't have a union, but you can't have some sort of, you know, fighters association, if you will. Is that something you feel strongly about? Is that something that you think if it was in place, this wouldn't happen to Nick Diaz or at least he'd have some kind of protection? Yeah, absolutely. Maybe the U-word is, it might be a little dangerous to be talking about that, because I might cheer around, somebody might smack me from you X-Me. I don't think so.

But absolutely, I think a sort of group or a sort of tree that most fighters could have with each other might be something that we may need to get going here, because, you know, and you just never know who's next, right? I know Jose Alito's been trying to start one. The problem is, you know, he doesn't speak English, and the majority of the fighters are, you know, are English-speaking people. But absolutely, I think something needs to be put in place,

and I don't know, it may be Henry, the messenger to say who will have to probably kick it off. Well, you know, it's interesting that you say that because notoriously fighters, and I get why, to a degree, they don't really stick up for each other. I mean, that's why I think what you've done, especially with a guy, and it's one thing for Jake Shields or Gilbert Melendez, long-time friends, even Rhonda Rousey, long-time friends of Nick Diaz to do something like this, but you don't really know Nick. And I think back to UFC 151 when everyone kind of left John Jones on this island. And even in this case, I don't see a lot of fighters, to be honest, following suit. but again, I want to clarify this, you don't really care. That's not what this is about in this particular instance. You don't really want to start a rally per se.

I mean, if that happens, if people do decide to join your cause, if you want to call it that, or your thought process, that's a nice byproduct. But that wasn't your intention, correct? Yeah, that's not my intention by any means. This is out of the kindness of my heart that I feel like there's just the right justice to be served. you know, he should probably pay some consequences, but paying $165,000 fine, being suspended for five years.

I mean, that's, I mean, I feel bad for the man, you know, from a brother to another brother. I feel extremely bad for any human being to be going through what he's going through. So, and again, man, I feel like, you know, I would rather affect an Emiliano Zapata, say, and I may butcher right now, but I would rather go, you know, I would rather die on my, on my feet and they die on my knees. And I just, I just can't lose my integrity. I mean it, Ariel. Yeah. I'm willing to, uh, to let go that about if, if that means, you know, after this next

fight, if they often defight in Vegas, I will, uh, I will, uh, I will set them, I will be like, hey, man, that's fine. You guys can get to somebody else. I can wait. It's commendable. I promise you, man. I'm, I'm, uh, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm American with Mexican descent.

I would, I would promise you there's, There's tons of other places I could find. I can go back to Mexico, Mexico City, wherever that may be. You know, Vegas is my only landmine there. Sure. There's a lot of different places that Minnesota could find that. Do you have any intention of calling up the UFC, Lorenzo Dana, anyone there, and saying, how can we talk about this or fix this?

Or for now, are you just going to leave it at your statement and see where things go from there? Yeah, see what things go from there. Like I said, I want to talk a little girl either. No, no. But I do, you know, that's just my final decision. You know, when that time comes, it'll come. And you guys will see it. I think this is all show for Mr. Suhudo.

I want you guys to really good to know, because like I said before, success is cool. I know what it feels like to be successful. My biggest thing now in life is based on significance. How can I help others find a way? It's great. I love to see what you're doing. Before I let you go, let me just ask you about November 24. First, Jucierge Formiga. He says he's going to derail your hype train.

And, you know, there's a strong words from the Brazilian. I think this is a great fight. In my opinion, it's the number one contender fight. Regardless of Vegas, all this stuff, you two are the two best next guys who haven't fought DJ fresh matchups. Do you agree with that? Yeah, absolutely. I think so. I think Formiga, you know, he's fought some other fighters before, and I think he's a really, really good fighter world-class jihitsu. It's going to be, you have a world-class grappler, jihitsu with an Olympic champion wrestler. So that's definitely going to be your water and water and oil, which don't mix. So you haven't even seen an intense fight come November 21st.

So I'm just getting ready for that. And that's about it. He's somebody that I'm taking a shoot. I take every fighter extremely serious. And, you know, the one out of that fight, we'll see what the USC does. But one thing for sure ain't fighting in Vegas. And what's going on with Joseph Benavides? He doesn't seem to be a fan of yours.

Is tweeting me some stuff thinking that you're ducking? What's going on there? I don't know. I've never met an Olympic champion that fights in the U.S.U. That's the law in the Olympics. I like for duck people. I think that's completely ludicrous. But like I said before, man, you'll get his time.

You'll understand why I am an elite athlete. And that's how there is to it, man. This is the thing about the sport of mixed martial arts that I kind of don't like, but I get the fact that people have. have to, you know, sell the fight. It's the fact that a lot of it is just based to social media and topic snack and calling people out.

That's cool to call people out, but when you start to wrongly accuse people at their ducking me, then that's when I start to have an issue. And I'm used to be a whole Olympic style. When we go in, though, with respect, and we shake hands and we beat, and, you know, we wrestle to the end, you know, let the best man win. It makes martial arts, you know, there's a fight before

and after the fight. So I just got to get a cousin to that. Ariel, I mean, that's a sport of mixed martial arts. People will, they're talking about me. That must be doing something right. Yes, and I got to say, I am happy that you are a part of this sport, coming from the Olympics, Olympic gold medalist. It is an honor to cover you and to have someone like you in the sport.

Standing up for what you believe is right, and not wanting any accolades or things like that. I mean, even getting you on the show was a little bit difficult, to be honest. You and your manager didn't really want that kind of attention, and I respect that greatly, but I'm happy that you came on. I know last week was a very busy week for you in Mexico, and you were in Vegas for the world championships and doing a whole bunch of other stuff. So thank you so much for the time, Henry.

We'll let you get the training. I appreciate it greatly. And again, thank you for everyone who is not a Nick Diaz fan, but everyone who just wants this sport to be as clean as possible and as honest as possible, ethical as possible. Thank you for what you're doing. No, no, thank you, I appreciate you for what you do for MMA. So you make it excited, make it interesting.

Thanks, my man. All the best to you. We'll talk to you soon. Likewise. There he is. Henry Sohudo, one of the top contenders in the UFC's flyweight division. His manager, Bill McFarlane, a great guy who has been a big part of this as well. Text me during this interview that an open letter to the UFC is being drafted and will be sent within a matter of a day or so.

So look out for that. Also sent me this quote, as Edmund Burke once said, quote, the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. This issue is about due process. And it's 100% right. Both men know nothing about Nick Diaz other than what we know on the surface. They're not friends of his. They're not training partners of his business associates, anything of that nature. But you got to respect people who have a lot, you know, have a lot at stake here. And there's a lot that they can lose. We're not talking about the state of Tennessee. or, you know, the state of Florida, Texas.

We're not talking about New Jersey. We're talking about the quote-unquote fight capital of the world. What they did on Monday, when you have a guy who, as Henry laid out quite well, has tested three times in the span of four hours. His first test, his third test, before the fight after the fight, passed it. Second test, fails it. numbers all over the place. But oh, by the way, that second test was sent to a non-WADA accredited lab.

World anti-doping agency, the end-all be-all of anti-doping. And by the way, the first and third test, the ones that he passed, were sent to a WADA accredited lab. And yet Nevada is hanging their hat on this outlier, bizarre. You know, some people said, oh, he should be, he should get something. I mean, this is his third, quote unquote, offense. It's not an offense. It's like the Kung Lee situation. Something went wrong.

Something went awry. Could he have smoked two days before the test? We don't know. But what we do know is he passed a test at 7 o'clock and one at 11 o'clock in that hour. And then there was a third one in the middle that he didn't pass. But there's all kinds of red flags surrounding that test. and yet we're going to stick to that one. And then, oh, by the way, these rules that we put in place four months ago,

these new procedures, these new rules, these new laws that we put in place four months ago, we're going to ignore them because this guy has the audacity to plead the fifth. This guy has the audacity, the gall, to plead the fifth. That's not being disrespectful. That's your right. I'm Canadian and I know that. That's your right. That's not being disrespectful.

That's not being a punk. as Matt Hughes said? That's your right. That's in the best interest of Nick Diaz. That's what his team thought would be the best in that situation, perhaps because they knew that they were dealing with biased commissioners. That's not the way it should be. Due process, you should be, you should be, you should be granted, you know, this, it's not a trial, but this kind of this, this open hearing where there's no biases involved. And there should be, you know, the quote unquote verdict should be handed down when there's no reasonable doubt revolving the facts. And there were plenty this time around. That's a problem. It's a huge problem. This thing bothers me probably more than anything.

And this year has been a very weird one as far as drug testing. I mean, it's been revolutionary in some senses. But Nevada has been all over the place. And when you think back to what they did to John Jones, look, cocaine use or not, John Jones should have never been tested for cocaine. and not only should he have not been tested for cocaine, that test should never have been made public. So you think back to January and where we are today and the fumbles left and right. I said on the MAB not that long ago that, you know, they've done good and I believe they want to do good. But they continuously fumbled the ball at the goal line. This time it wasn't at the goal line.

This time it was before kickoff. They went into that hearing with bad intentions, left right and center. And what they did to him was criminal. It was corrupt. And I hope that the governor of Nevada looks into all of them. And I hope that this time next year, none of them are sitting up there. And oh, by the way, Anthony Marnell, you know, this kind of showman, if you will. And we'll talk about the hearings and the way they're televised.

This guy had a license. This guy owned 71% of a medical marijuana dispensary as recently as a year ago. And yet he's sitting there taking away someone's livelihood. It's absolutely disgusting. Let's move along. Let's bring in my colleague at mhmapfiting.com. did fantastic work over in San Jose last week at Belator Dynamite 1. Wasn't on the M.A.B. So we didn't hear him, but he had his live chat.

And you were able to find out what he thinks of it. I think we're pretty much on the same page here. I'm talking about Luke Thomas joining us via the phone. Luke, are you there? Yes, can you hear me? Yes, it sounds like you are in a bunker, though. What's going on over there in D.C.? I don't know, man. Pope's coming. For some reason, I get Skype's not working, so I'm doing my best. If this is okay by you, it's okay by me. Okay, it's kind of figuring itself out, so we'll fight through it for a second. Yeah, just our luck, our luck, excuse me, Skype. This is not our problem. This is not our fault. We didn't do this. It appears to be down for the entire world. So we wanted to see your lovely face on the Skype machine. We're not going to get that, but we have a lot to discuss. I'm going to save the Nick stuff for a second because you were in San Jose. You were at Dynamite. I want to ask you the same question that you asked Scott Coker in your post-fight interview. What grade would you give Beltor Dynamite 1? Yeah, C plus B minus.

The way I would break that down is I guess I would say A for effort. I guess we'll talk about more about that in a minute, but I think there were radically different takes on the Dynamite show. It appeared that on TV it came across a lot better than it did in the audience. Even in the audience, they were trying a new sound system. So if you weren't in like where the average person was sitting, you could not understand not only any post-by interview, but any of the promos.

You know, part of the enjoyment for the Kimbo Slices and Ken Shamrock show was that everyone got to hear these crazy promos that they were running, and that wasn't a part of it, so that was kind of weird. I thought the fights were okay. I mean, obviously, Phil Davis was phenomenal, but generally there was never these, you know, these raucous climaxes to anything. It was just sort of all generally, okay. There's complaints about the new glory gloves

where guys are able to have better defense, so no one can get through them, now that they've gone from Leonica, Hayabusa. So I thought that the ambition of Bellator, and its spikes enabling of that, was really kind of impressive. And I think that the dynamite idea had legs.

As for the execution of the first one, you know, it needs some work. Would you do it again? Would you do a hybrid show or you just make a gigantic Bellator-MMA-only show? You know, I'm hearing that they may even want to involve boxing for the next one, which is kind of interesting if you think about that.

I don't know that that will work any better, believe me. In fact, that might be even worse. Look, I think there's no denying that the kickboxing fight from the show did not work. It was interesting because the complaints came from two directions. If you talk to the kickboxing fans, they're like, there's basically only one kickboxing fight on this card of a glory level. Yes, Paul Daly is on there, but this is a weird matchup for him. He's sort of half in the bag. It doesn't really count.

If you talk to MMA fans, they're like, you know, I don't know how to get about kickboxing. If it's good, I like it if it's not, I can just do without it. and this one was high level, I suppose, but just not all that compelling, which is sad, man, because, you know, I used to work for Glory. I've been to a bunch of their events. I mean, I'm not on their payroll, and I am still happy to say that when their product works, it's phenomenal, and you've got none of that really on Saturday night. It was not much of it anyway.

So, you know, these arguments like, well, can kickboxing and MMA work? Yeah, I think they can. It didn't work this time. I think it's certainly hard to do, but if you get the typical Glory product to show up, it'll fit right in line with the average anime fan. fans interests. It really felt like this was a Belator show and the kid brother Glory was coming along for the ride. And if you look at who was fighting in the quote unquote glory matchups, a lot of them were Bellator guys except for that one, the one main event as far as glory is

concerned. Why do you think that is? Why do you think that they didn't want to show the best glory has to offer on this stage? It's bizarre if you think about it in one sense because for sure this is going to be the most high profile of glory bout ever in terms of audience. They can't touch what Bellator numbers can do, especially a dynamite show, right, even with college football competition. I don't know, you know, I'm just spitballing here, and I'm guessing, but I feel like tension is not the right word, but I feel like Glory is very much interested in doing their own thing, and I'm not sure that working in partnerships with Bellator is what they really

ultimately want to do. So I don't know if they, you know, I'm not saying they drag their feet. I don't know that they did, but I just got the sense that they were like, they were willing to go along with Bellator's ideas in some senses because they realized there was a benefit to it. But I think ultimately they were not really, this is not how they really want to do their product. And so I think there was probably a little bit of red tape to get through. It really felt like a mixed bag to me because it started off guns blazing.

What a presentation. And you have the kind of pride opening with Lenny Hart and the guys on the stage. It just felt big. It looked cool. Seeing these two structures in there. I mean, it just felt different, and that's really what Scott has to work towards trying to be different than the UFC in this day and age. But then even, you know, okay, you get King Mo and Phil Davis. Wow, what a fantastic matchup.

Of course, King Mo gets injured, and you can't, you know, you can't predict that. You can't plan for that. Linton Vassel getting hurt or not getting cleared, I should say, is not a big loss. But Phil Davis winning, in a sense, Phil Davis to me, and I want to get your take on this, was the star of the show. He's the one that really, you know, rose above the rest and looked fantastic. his two fights. But in a way, there's a good and bad there because if he wins that belt, if he beats Liam McGee, what does it say about Belator? In my opinion, Phil Davis is the best fighter on the Belator roster right now, regardless of division. But if he goes from the UFC where he

couldn't quite crack the top contender list and then blows through the competition and wins the belt, doesn't that, I feel like that's a win for the UFC and a loss for Belator in a sense. Would you agree? You know, I thought that initially. I kind of had the same thought, but the more I thought about it, I'm not so sure I agree. You know, I was talking to Dave Meltzer. We sat next to each other on Press Row, and we were talking about, you know, that very scenario, like what happens? And I thought Dave made a really excellent point.

And he goes, look, Bellator didn't sign Phil Davis to have him lose. They signed this guy because they want him. They want him to win. They want to get behind him. They want to push him. And I think you saw a different Phil Davis in there, you know, and people say, well, it could be because of lesser competition. Okay.

Well, maybe that's what he needs to look awesome. You know, maybe he can't crack the top five, and they may be trying to do that. It just comes up short as a promotional entity, and I understand that against these guys. And we'll see how things go against Liam McGarry. I wouldn't count him out. And, of course, you have a King Moe fight set up right after that if you want to do that. But for me, it's like they want to get behind this guy, not just because they believe in him and because they think he can do good things, but because he might actually look good in the organization,

given how he's turning corners. And again, because of lesser competition. and that also a guy like him might be a bellwether, right? He might be a guy who other people look to and say, huh. So he left, he gets to keep his sponsors, he looks awesome over there, they're promoting the hell out of him, he's on these big shows, maybe there's something for me to go there. And so I think that he serves as an example, in Bellator's mind anyway,

about possibilities for other top-ranked fighters who maybe, you know, look, the UFC's tough. It's hard to look good there. And if you see someone look good there, chances are it's because they're probably pretty good. And if you come up short a little bit, Phil Davis is showing that maybe there's some alternatives out there for you. And again, not trying to nitpick here because I enjoyed, I enjoyed the main event a lot. I love the story of the main event, and it's Tito going for that one last title run.

And he actually looked quite good early on. And then McGee, with his long limbs and his amazing guard, is able to pull off this unbelievable finish. I mean, it was a nice little package. It was a great story. But I felt afterwards, and I want to get your take from the live event perspective. They didn't do anything on the biggest stage. Probably their most viewers will find out later today. They didn't do anything to put them over.

They have Tito talking for what felt like 10 minutes, and you have Phil Davis setting it up. I get that. But McGee kind of came across as the guy who was just happy to be there. Didn't feel like the star that you should be putting over to use a pro wrestling term. Do you get what I'm saying? Yeah.

So that's an interesting question because if you were sitting on Press Row, it was impossible to understand anything that happened in the cage. Wow. Like, people, people were tweeting me, and they were saying, what is Phil Davis saying about the testing thing and the athletic commission? I have no idea. I have no idea what he said. So we were all kind of tuned out. Wow.

When they went in that cage, we just didn't care anymore because it was impossible to understand. I will also say that I asked Tito one question at the Post-Five press conference, and he won on for what seemed like 10 minutes. So I don't think that they planned to have Tito speak at these inordinate lengths. I think he just sort of took over the moment as a consequence. It didn't happen. I also say, Liam is a very fun-loving guy. I think he will connect with the fans eventually,

but he's a little bit too... Nice. Yeah, well, not even nice exactly, just laid-backish about everything. Like, hey, Liam, we need you to go over here. Okay. Hey, Liam, we need to not do that. Okay, he's very accommodating in ways that, like, the more diva stars that we're accustomed to, maybe don't do that.

So here's what I would say. I think it's inevitable. winning or losing that Liam McGarry will connect with fans. He's just got such a fan-friendly style. And I said this to Casey, the videographer, you know, if you looked at champions or top-level fighters out there, and you did the old political test, you know, about who you, most fans or voters are always told, you know,

I don't know if I agree with this politician's platform, but I'd like to get a beer with him. Liam McGee passes the test about who would you like to get a beer with times a thousand. So I agree they probably bungled it, but I also think it's a matter of time before he connects. I love watching him fight, and I think that fight against Phil Davis is an amazing one. One of the very best that Beltor could put on in the next few months. So I wanted to ask you about how the crowd, the San Jose crowd, one of my favorite crowds in combat sports. I love attending events, covering events at the SAP Center, dating back to Josh Thompson, Gilbert Melendez-Wan, and I believe 2008.

I wanted to ask you how they reacted to the Fador news. But I'm guessing everyone was just kind of sitting there. Like, no one had any idea what was going on. Is that what happened? Yeah, I mean, that could have gone better. Okay. Right? I mean, because you have, you have Kevin K. in there.

And certainly we know who he is. And he's, I mean, Kevin K. is hugely important. Yes. Martial arts, both today and historically, it's the president of Spike TV. And then you have W. Yuki Sakaki Barra in there. And his English is, you know, functional at best. and then you have Scott Coker and Jimmy Smith

and it was again from the sound in the audience it was impossible to understand and then more than that it was like the deal is confusing so Fador is going to be in a co-promoted Bellator show but he's not signed to Bellator but it's going to air like a Belator broadcast here because Spike TV has the rights

to it we don't know how many fights throw it I think you reported there were two it was very confusing I think of the audience once they announced him the crowd went buzzerck huge pop for Fador. But then after the news was announced, it was like, so is he fighting for us? I don't know,

just give me another beer. That was kind of the response. It was, it was, we're happy he's here, but we'll figure it out later kind of thing. I love this image of all these journalists that have flown to San Jose to be there and cover the event, and you're probably looking at Twitter to find out what's going on and what's being said inside the cage.

The latest I heard, the latest I heard, by the way, about the deal is that it is a two-fight deal. One fight, you know, that's the next one coming up, December 31st. Saki Kibara has an option for the second fight, but it's his option to pick up. So it's an interesting deal to say the least. Now that we know at least that he is going to fight for him upcoming, you know, December 31st, this New Year's Eve show, we don't know who he'll be fighting just yet. We really don't know anything about this new promotion other than the Fedor is attached to it, and Saki Kibara is heading it up, returning to

M.A. for the first time in seven years. And if you don't know who that is, former pride, founder, and boss, I mean, a very important figure in the history of of combat sports. What do you make of his decision? A lot of people upset. Should we be surprised that Fader went this route? You know, I often hate on Twitter. We've talked about this, where journalists will predict something relatively obvious, and then it happens, and they come back and they go, I see, I told you so. So I didn't get it quite right either, but I do recall saying the MMA beat that I found it hard to believe you would go to UFC, you know, and not that because they would

not make them a generous offer, I am sure that they did, and that they tried very hard. hard. But, you know, for example, who was his, like, confidant slash translator at the media day? Yeah. It was Jerry Millen. Yeah. You know, Jerry Millen's a former pride executive who has a long-time-standing antagonistic relationship with Zunfa. I just found the idea that they would find a way to work with UFC just hard to believe. Now, it turns out it didn't sign with Bellatory either, right? So there's that as well. So I guess no one was really right in that sense. But I think for me,

it's like, I was glad when he retired. I don't really need to see him back. I get the fan attachment. It's real. It's palpable. But for me, it's just so funny. It's like, well, now he's not going to fight Kane Velazquez, and there's no Androovsky rematch. And look, I was so desperately wrong about Arlovsky. We talked about that, too, it's not even funny.

Like, guys have had these resurgence. Apparently, I should say especially had heavyweight. But for me, it's like Fador kind of knows he can't compete with these guys. And I think he does want to do something for the Japanese MMA scene. And I think those are his bigger priorities than what John Q fan wants.

on Twitter. I understand why the fan wants him to fight King of Alaska. I get it. It makes sense to me. Fador doesn't want that for his life. It doesn't seem like he hasn't for a while. And I just think fundamentally fans need to come to terms with that. They can make what, you know, whatever evaluation of that they want after the fact. But when you realize he's just got a different sort of priorities, suddenly these decisions all appear to make sense. Yeah, once I saw Jerry there earlier in the week, I kind of figured, all right, he's been a part of Team Fader now for a long time, and apparently he's still a part of the team. have a hard time seeing how the UFC is going to

bypass him and strike this deal. He just seems to be a part of it, and that's the way it is. And the UFC isn't a fan of his for obvious reasons. And he's done a lot of shady things. I love Morrow Ronello's tweet about him in the middle of the show. Unbelievable that Morrow would go there. That's why we love Mora Rinala. Let me ask you this before I let you go.

It's been a week since the Nick Diaz situation. I expect us to talk about this once again at length on Thursday. MMA beat. The A team is back. That's very exciting. But a week later, if I ask you to describe what Nevada did in a word or two, what comes to mind? Fundamentally unethical, you know, there's just no defense of it. And I know there's been some people who have tried, and I know that there are some who have a different perspective about what you should do before a commission and what rules mean and what they don't mean and how you should value them.

And I understand their perspective. I really do. And I think a lot of people are just trying to make sure that the right thing happens here, not just for Nick Diaz, but for the sport generally. that we can all come to terms about what things should happen. But nowhere in the code is it written that anybody owes the commission any respect. This is not the Victorian-era England where you have to get on bended knee before royalty. They are not royalty. They are government-appointed bureaucrats, no more and no less.

And it certainly serve a role, but in acting to punish Nick Diaz as the way they did, they so grossly overstep their bounds that the only thing left for them to do is to resign. Matter of factly, first thing tomorrow morning, if not today. There's nothing else to be said. They cannot be trusted to do their jobs competently, not now and not ever. And more than that, the commission system needs to be reformed. Fighters need to have a legitimate, no-bull-s real appeals process or real experts with real actual talents and expertise on matters can weigh in on an evidentiary basis.

As long as this is about how guilty you may or may not be, and not innocent, just different ranges of guilt. And you have no real appeals process unless you can afford the attorney who's going to be on your show today. you know, this is such an unfair level playing field. So that's what I'm doing the whole thing. And that's not in place right now. So do you foresee this changing for Nick Diaz? Do you think that if he takes this to the highest court possible, that his five-year suspension will be reduced

or maybe even just completely thrown out and he could be a free fighter? I'm generally a terribly negative person, which you know very well. So my guess is I'm going to assume for practice. practicality's sake that he is done for. I'm going to hope that I'm wrong. I'm going to, only thing I'm looking for is whether or not the court takes it and says, well, look, maybe you have a point. Maybe you don't, but we don't really want to weigh in on a matter that another state agency is sort of handling.

So we're just going to back out of this quietly, which is not, again, making an evidentiary claim. I think the challenge that the Diaz attorneys have is to get someone to say, here are these facts. Please look at these facts. Look at how his Bible had his name on it from the Quest Laboratory. look at how this whole testing procedure should have been thrown out, and then, of course, the other evidence about the water labs versus non and all the tests and so forth.

But to me, that's what the challenge is. And, again, that's beyond my expertise. We can only hope. But if I'm a fan and I'm looking at this and I'm saying, this is so unfair, it might be, but fixing it is very difficult. Great stuff, Luke. I'll see you on Thursday. Yeah, but thank you for having me.

I'm sorry about for the complications, but I'll do with it. There he is, Luke Thomas. Great stuff, as always. and he brings up a tremendous point. That second test, by the way, I said there were red flags all over the place, right? That second test, they attached his name to the paperwork. This has to be anonymous. And you're putting Nick Diaz, renowned, bad boy, marijuana smoker.

Now you're throwing his name onto the damn thing. And apparently a box was checked off that, no, a box was not checked off, that should have been checked off, that this was done privately. I mean all kinds of issues with that second test. Yet that is the one that we're going to say, I think we have a positive test here to spend the guy for five years. What a joke. All right.

Let's move along. Let's talk to Josh Barnett. He has a very big fight coming up in a matter of days. And what a mensch Josh Barnett is because, from what I understand, he is flying to Japan later on today. Be so kind that he's taken out some time out of his day to join us here. morning in Los Angeles, but he didn't have to do this, and I appreciate it greatly. Josh, are you there? I am here.

You are a mensch. Do you know what a mensch means? Oh, yes. I'm very, very familiar. You know, if I'm going to be managed by the one and only super Hebrew, Ariel Halwani, and I need to understand a little bit of the language, a little bit of the back and forth, so to speak. Yes, of course.

Well, you are the... that word in every sense of the word and I appreciate you being here greatly so this is a big deal this is a big deal for you I know you have fought in the last five years or so you have fought in the last in Japan but the last time you remember the last time you fought in Saitama Japan at the Saitama Super Arena do you recall off the top of your head uh Mighty Moe uh in dream and that was I think in 2008 or nine? It was in exactly it's not even coming up.

Why isn't it coming up on your record? That's bizarre. You know what? Why isn't Skype working? Yeah. Apparently, Mercury is in retrograde or so some of the hippies say. It's unbelievable.

Skype isn't working, and that's very disappointing because I can't see your face. Regardless, you're back in Japan, and I know you got to do the reality show, I know you got to do the press conference, but for you, I mean, when I think of Japanese MMA and I think of the hey day of pride and someone who really, as an outsider, really embraced the culture and the fans and the

kind of fighting that we loved over there. Why does it mean so much to you to come back? And we haven't seen you in quite some time. Why does it mean so much to go back there, of all places? Well, for me, it's really personal to fight and for all the Japanese fans. but I'm hoping that with this fight that even though it is the UFC specifically that we're going over there for, but that the entirety of the Japanese MMMA team can be elevated by having a card that really puts the interest in the fans again and really gets them excited about MMA as a whole. And also, it's just, it's the time. Everything is led up to it originally.

I think I was going to fight Roy in July. They've put together this road to UFC Japan and this attached us to this Saitama card and everything is just lined up. I've put in the work, I've put in the time, and for all the people that have put the time into me, past and present, and for all the fans have been waiting for me to come over there and fight. This is a culmination of that. And by the way, this is why I couldn't figure it out. That fight against Mighty Moe was in Yokohama. It wasn't.

Oh, was it? Well, there you go. That's why I was getting stumped. I was like, what? I broke this down last night, and you put that there, and you kind of threw me for a loop. So the actual last time was in 2006 against Antonio Rodrigo Nogara, Pride F.C. Shockwave, 2006. That was the last time you fought in Saitama. Yeah. Well, I did do, I had a pro wrestling match against Hideki Suzuki on a Dream Yardomoka or dynamite or whatever they were calling it. That was in 08 or maybe 010, but I haven't done an MMA card there since, well,

I guess 2006, as you say. I wouldn't go against you. That's for sure. You know how to keep track of numbers. I had the honor and privilege of going to Japan for the first time. It was at UFC 144. We did this video where we talked to people on the street and asked them about their interest in MMA and pride and things like that,

and it was amazing how little the youngsters, the youth of Tokyo, knew about mixed martial arts. And you think back to a decade or so ago, and they were drawing incredible numbers on television with the likes of Bob Sap and Fadour and you and many others. You know, during your trips there for the last, you know, a couple months doing the promotion and all that, do you get a sense that it's coming back,

that there are people who remember you, that remember pride that are into this, or is it really a completely different market now? There is interest, although I don't know how attached they are to the old, and then they promote pride and dream and such. But I know that those fans are still around, are all still waiting to see some of their old favorites.

But this may be a case of a new breed of Japanese and MMA fan. And maybe through my fight, though, I can get them to go and dig up the archives and start taking a look at where this stems from. Doning to ask you about this, and when I heard about the news and then remember you'd be on the show Monday. I was so happy. So as you probably heard, Saki Kabara is back,

his new promotion launching New Year's Eve of this year, and he has signed Fador for his debut show. What do you make of this? I haven't done any press about it, but honestly, that's what I've been saying since the minute he said he was coming out of retirement, that he was not going to go to the UFC.

In fact, I bet Giuliana Pena, that he wasn't going to go to the UFC to begin with, that he was going to go to Japan. So she owes me 20 bucks, I believe. But I've been telling everyone that if he's coming back, then there's going to be a big Japanese show attached to it.

It's all going to line up from there first. And if he decides to go to the UFC or do something else, I'm sure that he will. That option will exist. But his draw, his value in Japan, is monumental. So there's no way

you're going to pass this up. But do you think that there is a part of him at all? I mean, you know, this guy. Does he not want, you know, that last piece of his legacy to be complete, to test himself?

I mean, look at the heavy weights these days. These old guys coming back and doing great, Fabricio, Andrei Arlowski and the list of him and Mark Hunt and, you know, you're back. I mean, why not try to test yourself against the best? Yeah, at this point, you're out for three years. Go for it.

No, you don't think that there's any part of him that wants it. maybe there is a part of him and his handlers don't want to. Why do you think, why did you think, and I believe you when you say that you believe from the get-go that he wasn't going to go to the UFC, why do you think that is? I just think that the draw to be in Japan is just that much stronger to begin with, because the way he's going to get paid, how he's going to get treated. I don't know.

I mean, I suppose the UFC technically could rival that or exceed that, but it's unlikely. It would be them stepping out of balance maybe beyond what they do for anybody else. Well, they probably do a Ferrada and Connor, who knows. But it's just too easy to do so. Plus, him going over there and doing a fight doesn't necessarily mean he won't end up in the UFC. I mean, he's not, I wouldn't imagine he's going to be signing into some sort of long-term fixed contract. He'll probably just go over there, do what he's, do his match, and then from there on, you know, go to the next location, or, you know, maybe even call it good, maybe say, yeah, that was good enough.

as far as his drive to want to continue to compete and try to add to his legacy, you know, I really couldn't say. I think overall he's pretty satisfied with what he's done as a fighter, and he has a right to be so. But obviously he still has some competitive juices flown. Otherwise, I don't think you'd take that fight. Last thing on this topic, you know, Sakhi Kabara, do you think that he will succeed?

Are you confident? It's really, today is not yesterday. Yeah. And what used to work, I don't know, will, if it will, again. The big thing that Sakhi Bar has

going for him besides experience is that he has relationships prior with the TV of television stations, and that is a massive component to being able to, your product into try and become successful in Japan. You have to be on terrestrial Japanese TV in a good time slot, and he has the potential to do that.

But does he carry with him a stigma from the fallout of Pride to Forward with some of the more scandalous aspects? I don't know entirely, and I'm not really paying that close attention to what's going on behind the scenes. But I hear things here, and I've been hearing about this show coming around for all the better part of the year. So I think there's a possibility that'll happen, but I don't know. Maybe the Japanese fans' tastes have changed to such a degree that he's out of date.

And let's forget about Japan for a second here. It seems to me, and correct me from wrong, that fighting Roy Nelson is very personal to you. There's some kind of issue there. Why is it so personal? Why don't you like this man? You know, actually, I don't really have anything personal with Roy, particularly. But I do have, I'm very personal about myself and my own performance. My last fight was not acceptable for me in any way, shape, of form.

And I have a real bad taste in my mouth over that, and I want to make sure to go above and beyond this fight. I know Roy has tried to push buttons before via the Internet and things, but I don't know. Sometimes I looked at it as, you know, like a toddler with a, butter knife trying to challenge a Viking with a battle accent. You just have to sort of laugh and pat him on his head and move along when it comes of that sort of thing.

But I've never really personally, face-to-face, I've never had any poor interactions with Roy, but I know he wants to knock me out and walk around claiming he's King of the Mountain and try to be the star of this show. but there ain't a way in hell I'm going to let that happen. I've trained way too hard. I've put in way too much work. And this fight is not just about winning. This fight's about making a statement.

So, you know, you mentioned that last fight. It has been a long time, almost two years since we've seen in action. You last fought against Travis Brown. How difficult has it been for you, this great competitor, you're always striving for the best and all that, to sit on a loss like that for almost two years? You haven't, I often see and hear, from fighters who say you lose like that,

you want to get right back in there, a month later to erase it, to get that L off the top of your record. It has been sitting there for almost two years for you. How frustrating, how upsetting has that been for you? It's been, you know, if I think back on it, as a competitor, it's shitty, just to go out there and perform less than your abilities.

And it's just, you know, regardless of anything else in conjunction with that fight, but it's just, it's a monumental waste of my time and the people that invest in me when that's the way it goes, as far as my own performance. So, you know, it's very personal for the time I invested in it and the people that invest in me that I go out there and show exactly what I'm capable of. But as far as, you know, losses happen, bad nights happen, and you can't dwell on them too much. She's got to move on from it. And I've been so busy with everything else with the movies

and New Japan Pro Wrestling TV deal and this road to UFC Japan on Fight Pass and training Victor Henry and Colleen Schneider and Jasmine Duke and everybody. And I haven't really had too much time to really dwell on my last fight, but I have had a lot of inspiration to prepare for this one. What's the biggest? What's the biggest inspiration?

Yeah. man it's it's always for me it's a it's like a perfect storm of my coaches uh these moments out there during training uh my students and providing an example for them uh you know could a song that comes on the radio it's always about times and places and and things and it's it's it's It's never just one thing for me. And, you know, I had a great training camp with Eric Paulson and went out to the Naval Academy, a train with Joel Sherritt, and brought Tony Nelson along.

And I've had some really great goes in the room, and I've really put in a great amount of work, but not just work, work that has made me better overall as a fighter, as a coach, as a martial artist. And so I want to go out there and just let it all hang out. I'm happy you brought up those other things that you got going on, in particular, the coaching, and, of course, the acting. Well, then you don't have to plug them.

I just throw them out there. No, it's great. It's great for me. And I think it's important to know that you haven't just been sitting on the couch and licking your wounds, so to speak, or that one wound. I'm wondering, were you ever too busy? And I know you've been on the show. It's not the first time you've been on the show during this almost two-year period.

But did you ever think, you know what? I'm done. I don't want to fight. Did you ever get to the point where you actually were considering never fighting again? No, I think that will come down to probably body over mind. I think the body will tell me to slow down before the head will. But across that bridge when I get there, I do look forward to sitting on, laying on couches

and leaving a wound, though. Wait, that'll too graphic for your audience? No, I love it. It actually got me very excited. she will be too. But it's an opportunity to be an athlete. And it's a short one of that for most people. And I've managed to get a lot of longevity out of it.

And that's a lot of thank you to my coaches like Matt Hume and Billy and Eric and so many to lists that have instilled in me work ethic and technique to keep me through this. And also just, you know, self being driven to be the best of this that I can be and to continually evolve, even if it's only in the smallest ways. But as long as I keep growing and keep getting better, I still want to keep doing it. And I know that even when I'm going to want fighting, I don't intend to have too much downtime. but whenever that day comes that I'm able to sit back and reflect, it'll be well spent. Yeah, absolutely, to say the least.

By the way, I wanted to ask you about this. I know you got there late, but you caught the tail end of it. What was your take on that whole Go Big Press Conference, and in particular how it turned into the Cona McGregor's show as a veteran? I was thinking in particular what Josh Barnett and Dan Henderson were thinking up there on the stage at the very top of the stage, seeing this youngster kind of become this lone wolf and attack almost everyone up there. What did you make of that whole show?

Well, I didn't personally feel attacked, I guess. No, that's what I said, for the most part. Yeah, yeah. Oh, well, I know. The biggest thing is he just, he wants to speak his mind as much as possible, right or wrong. Smart or stupid, doesn't he just, he's just going to let it rip and picked up the mic whenever he feels the moment come to him. His in-ring performances have been fantastic, and I've been impressed. but there's more

fun to do and you're right he does he's not necessarily going to go out there and put people over he ends up bearing a lot of folks I mean he goes on to a

he was crazy he's sitting there and he's talking about oh Zay Aldo you come over you're giving you championships and all that right over there's Ronor Rousey who was also given her championship

just insulting the shit out of her at the same time and as he's trying to drop a bomb on Aldo and, and then, or, you know, and just saying, I'm the biggest drop, boom, again, dropping, which is dropping a bomb around Rhonda, while, while Conner's trying to, you know, to blow himself up.

And surprisingly, nobody has, you know, taken offense and sat back and go, hey, hey, people, you're trying to clown this dude, but you just clown me. Yeah. You know, how about this? Which would have been, it would have been an awesome thing to say. sit up at the top, especially with my little bottle of water and watch Ronorale and Connor McGregor, you know, throw a tantrum at each other. That would be hilarious.

Completely, and the other thing would make it was so funny is how, by accident entirely when a ball come across, just one dude throwing his promos out there and just hissing off another fighter and then just watching them just tumble. And then, in this case, watch it be, you know, the two biggest push to UFC five. in the company just tumbling all over the ring, just all the stage just talking shit all over each other. And you'd have the Ronda Rousey fans and the Connor McGregor fans, although the McGregor fans are, and some of them are on another level.

They think because Connor's so brash, that therefore that is licensed for them to say any inane, obnoxious thing that comes to their head. And it's like, well, you know, it's great to have heroes. And even to be inspired by somebody who's polarizing, or the nicest person in the world. But remember, it's their accomplishments or their lives. And, you know, go live something for your own life and enjoy,

inspire, take whatever the best of it that helps you from the people that you look up to as heroes. But at the end of the day, man, their fight to their fights. Your fight is your own. let's end on this what is Josh Barnett looking forward to the most about Saturday actually it will be Sunday in Saitama you know that arena

you know those people you've been there the whole week is there something in particular about that fight week that fight day the way and something that you are really looking forward to be living again I just cannot wait for whoever's in that match just a fight

that is I just want the change to be unleashed and I want to come out there, look right in the face, and let's just go. Let's see who's going to Bajala today. Something about you fighting there is very magical. I love it. If it was just that one fight on the card, I'd be all in. I can't wait for it.

By the way, what's the deal with the Samsung thing that you're working on? Well, I'm actually going to stop by Samsung today and pick up a brand new phone for them. And as I'm going on and about my adventures, as I often do, I'm going to use my Samsung phone to record them and take pictures and use their technology to put out my story out there in the world and hopefully make it more interesting and easier for all my fans to follow along. And anybody who's not a fan, maybe to become one. All right.

Twitter.com slash Josh L. Barnett. Can we grow the beard back, by the way? I'm seeing a picture of you with the beard on our screen. I missed the beard. You had such a great beard. One of the best beards. I'm not talking about your chin. great beard.

Yes, yes. Get it back, please. There is a possibility for the beard to make a return, but Roy's got, he's got beard and mullet. It's like he's got a beard on the front and a beard on the back. So I figured what would my beard do in this scenario other than overshadowed? Fair enough. I wish you the best again.

Thank you so much for coming on as you prepare to leave in just a matter of hours to Japan. Can't wait for the fight. It's this Saturday night here in the United States Sunday. over in Japan, Roy Nelson versus Josh Barnett back at the Saitama Super Arena. That is magical in its own right. Cannot wait for it, Josh. I appreciate the Tom. The time, excuse me, and I wish you the very best.

I'm very much looking forward to your return. It's been a long time since we got to see you fight, and it hasn't been the same without you, my friend. I will make it work while. All right, there he is. Josh Barnett, the Warmaster, back. Babyface assassin. Missed him. And you could tell it's a bit of a different, Josh Barnett. He's now in fight mode. He's serious, not cracking as many jokes, and that's why I really appreciate him coming on. Big fight for him Saturday night

in Japan. All right, let's move along. Let's welcome in another veteran, another one of our favorites. It's been a while since we talked to him. Eddie Alvarez joins us on the phone. Eddie, are you there? I'm here. What's up, Ariel? Eddie, I got a lot of questions for you. First things first, let's clear the air here. Are you fighting Anthony Pettis in January in Boston? I sure am. All right. Why haven't they announced this? they haven't. I don't know. I don't know what's going on. As far as I'm concerned, I think we're fighting Boston in January. So maybe because it's so far out, you know, but I believe it's a sign and sealed and then booked and ready to go.

Your reaction to this, your reaction to the news was great. You were like a kid on Christmas morning. You were so very excited. Why? Why were you so excited to fight Pettis? You know, first of all, he's the number one guy in the division right now. And I don't know if it was a – I wanted him, and I just didn't feel like they were going to let me fight him. I love the style matchup. You know, he doesn't do well against guys that fight with my sort of style. And so I wanted him first of all because it's an opportunity to, you know, move up in rankings versus. where I thought they were going to have me fight

because there wasn't really anyone available. I thought they were going to have me fight someone, you know, ranked top 15 or something like that where I was going to fight a fight that would get me nowhere. So just to be able to fight him for me was a blessing and be able to get my hands on him. And then the news that, you know, might be in Boston was that really got me excited to bring a fight to the East Coast.

Yeah, you get to fight close to home, close to Philly. The main event is fantastic. It's T.J. Dillshaw versus Dominic Cruz, and it's the same day as I believe the AFC Championship, which is on Fox, or maybe it's the NFC Championship, I should say, and there's going to be a ton of promotion when they had that card this past year in January with Connor. It did amazingly well on FS1, so it's a great card to be on. I want to ask you about what you just said about he doesn't do very well against fighters like you. What do you mean by that? A guy who comes forward, puts pressure, what do you mean? Yeah, guys who like to fight.

Get in their face, pressure, go forward. I mean, historically, he hasn't done well. He does really well with space. He's very creative. He does a lot of good things, and I'm not down to him. I just think it's a very good style matchup for me to go up against someone like him and just be myself and not have to adjust or change anything that I do. and I think I can do really well against this guy.

So that being said and that's going to be on the East Coast, I just, I don't know. They're really helping me out here, so I'm really excited. So, you know, the last time I spoke to you was right after the Melendez win, and it was just like two days later, I recall you not being 100% sure just how serious your injuries were. At the end of the day, what did you suffer in that first? fight? I think it was the shot in the very beginning of the fight. I broke my, I broke my orbital. Oh,

wow. And I broke my nose, and I think I fractured my, I had like a slight fracture of my elbow during the spinning elbows. I think I suffered something like that to my elbow. So my elbow actually hurt the worst, more than my face. But everything was cleared, cleared up pretty quickly, and I was able to start training, you know, have a good turnaround. So you're all good now? I'm golden, man. And no surgeries or anything? No surgeries at all.

Even in Mexico, they said the fracture of my orbital was on the side of my orbital, not like the bottom or the top, which is one of the reasons that calls, like, my eyeball up or something like that. So, you know, it wasn't anything that need to operate on. It's all good now, and I'm a hunter. And like I said, I'm excited to be able to move up and rank and not have to worry about staying still. And, you know, I have all the opportunity all leverage in the world right now

to go out there and train like a demon and fight someone who's ranked up there. What was your reaction when you found out that Gilbert failed his post-fight drug test? I, you know, I always looked at Gilbert sort of a guy like I was, you know, he put outside the organization, he did things a little bit differently, never ever looked at him as someone who would use something like that, you know. But, I mean, I'm really gullible that stuff. I assume nobody does it, you know? even when I train with guys and I just to me I assume and nah they don't they don't do that stuff but man it's really um it's it's pretty it's pretty spread it's pretty rampant and um you know I'm I'm like a fucking unicorn in this sport like I feel like a weirdo um because I don't because I never did do anything so um I didn't realize how much of um uh different i was until um you know all these guys start coming out uh this guy gets popped for this pop for everybody's getting popped for steroids and um not only that now that there's all these uh strict laws on steroids all these guys are coming out and they look like bags of shit

their bodies they're changing because they can't use so for me uh i've been uh, doing this sport for 11 years, drug free, never, ever did any enhancement. I feel like now I'm going to, uh, all these guys who've been using stuff and needed this and needed that, they're all going to start falling off. You're going to see their performances die, their bodies look like shit. And, um, I feel like guys like myself and guys who, who've been drug free, their whole career, they're going to be able to start to rise. I thought this was one of the more shocking ones.

of the last year or so because, as you said, Gilbert was kind of this throwback fighter. It didn't really have, you know, he had a fine body, but didn't look like one that was on PDs. And who knows, you know, the circumstances surrounding it, he hasn't talked about it publicly other than, you know, the one statement that came out. But I'm wondering from the perspective of an opponent who goes in there and you guys had your, you know, your rivalry, if you will. And then you find out that you were fighting a guy that, you know, according to the UFC and the statement they put out was.

using some sort of PED? Do you feel cheated? Do you feel upset? Are you like, do you want to break something? How do you react to that kind of news? Because it's a dangerous thing. You're in there in a fist fight and a cage fight with someone who is trying to gain an advantage over you.

I mean, everyone does it, right? If you're not, like maybe guys do steroids, everybody's trying to gain an advantage. I think when, if my orbital on my nose wasn't broken during the fight, I wouldn't have felt anyway. about it. But when I'm face was a little bit smashed and then I found out he um has a positive steroids. I'm like, fuck and he could have really hurt me. Um, whatever. Boo-hoo for me for a little bit. But, um, you know, I, I've just been around the sport for so long. And, um, like I said, I'm really

global. I assume nobody does it. And a lot of guys that I, that I train with, that I surround myself with, don't. Like, you know, I, you know, with Frankie Eager and the guys that I, um, you know, And that I sort of train with and everybody I hang out with don't. So, like, for me, it's not a normal thing to do. But when, you know, when you hear all these things, this guy's doing it and guys that you assume would never do it, get caught. It's like, damn, man, everybody's on this shit. And I feel more and more, like I said, like a fucking unicorn.

Like, what am I, like a dork? Because I don't do it. Like, what's going on? Well, please do not do it. We need some clean fighters out there. As you said, it's an epidemic. It's a huge problem. Did you hear about the Nick Diaz situation?

If so, do you have any thoughts on that? I have. I have. I feel terrible for him. You know, I feel like everyone else does. I feel like fuck Nate Diaz and free Nick Diaz. If I could make a hashtag, it'd be fuck, Nate, free Nick.

Yes. I feel you on that one. You're not a big fan of Nate's, right? I don't know. Just one incident, one run into. You want to see him again? I'll apologize or something. I don't know.

Just one stupid incident. He was all angry at me. I feel like he should apologize because his boy did steroids before you fault me. And he never mentioned anything about that after Gilbert got popped. And he had all this shit to say before the fight. never said anything to me like out of my bed, you know, we cheat it and we still lost.

Not like that. Yeah, and I mean, as I think a lot of people have said, it's not about Nick Diaz or the Diaz brothers. It's really about an abuse of power, I think, to give someone five years for, you know, something like that is just, again, I keep saying it's an abuse of power. It, 100% is, and they're not even, they're not hurting. Nick so much. I heard him fans. You know many people want to see Nick Diaz fight? Yeah.

That shit is fun. The shit he does is fun, you know? Him, he's different. He's himself. He says what he wants. He does things differently. A lot of guys in the sport, including myself,

where, well, you know, there's so many people that are the same. Um, there's too many guys that are sort of the same, the same answer, same everything.

So to get a guy like him who, um, you know, he does say, a bit differently. Maybe it's against the grain, but it's fun to watch. It's exciting to watch. So you're really ripping off guys like me and other people who want to watch them fight. You're ripping

off the fans, not anybody else. Are you going to train at the Black Sillians for this fight? So I'm back in Philly now. Yeah. My last training camp, it was great. I had a great time, but it was pretty hard on on me and my kids and my family. I missed the whole season of soccer. It was a bit trying.

I was going for really long. So I'm going to do the majority, you know, a large majority of my camp in Philadelphia. Okay. Back with my old Trent conditioning coach, my old boxing coaches, like everybody. And then, you know, when I see it fit, I'll head out to Florida and get some really good sparring.

but training-wise, I'll be doing a large amount in Philadelphia and then heading out to Florida to get some good work in sparring ones. What about sparring training partners over there in Philadelphia? Will you bring in any of those guys to you? Yeah, I already talked with Coach Henry about that. We have Robin Van Ruzma, him, Sean Soriano, and there's a couple really good kickboxers at the Black Zions. Yeah.

And they've already mentioned the option just, I have plenty of room for guys to stay. So we've already mentioned an option of at some point having them guys come in and just having them living with me and be following me and sparring and things like that. But there's, you know, I left a really good team when I left here. I never really left Philadelphia because I was in need of something I didn't have. It was a little falling out with my original coach. I thought I needed a change. So that's why I went to Florida.

But there's really good talent here. Plenty of guys that train with. I'm back with my strength conditioning coach, my boxing coach, training with a guy, Romney, Ibram. Very good, very talented. And now he's a trainer. I'm a Muay Thai guy. I'm liking the way things are going now.

I'm liking my schedule, and we'll see what goes on. And as you know, it's always interesting when a fighter comes back from a title loss. That's the case with Anthony Pettis. He was thoroughly dominated by Hafelde Los Angeles back in March. This will be his first fight since that title loss. You can understand where he's coming from. You've been in that spot before. Are you expecting to see this wounded animal or maybe a guy who's looking to reinvent himself?

I mean, what kind of, what kind of Anthony Pettis and what's the psychology of a fighter who's coming back from a bad loss like that in a title fight in his next fight? I mean, as a ex-champion myself, it's always the most highly motivated, well-trained person you're going to go again. You know, ever, ever coming off a loss of your title, you're always the most motivated. You're waking up late. you're going to bed. You're waking up early, going to bed late. It's just one of them things where you want to get back and prove the fans and prove to the world that you're a champion.

And I'm expecting that guy. But it just that guy won't be good enough. Not in Boston, not against me. I just don't feel like however he comes back is the guy he comes back like, it won't be good enough against myself that night. It's just not going to happen. I'm baffled by fans overall perception of this fight, but it makes me even more excited to go out there and do what I'm about to do.

You're getting hate? You're getting a lot of people saying you're about to get your ass kicked? I just don't realize how, where fans come up with these predictions and how, I just, to me, I'm like, man, this guy's super popular and they just sink the world of them, or I don't know, but maybe I'm seeing something they're not saying, but we'll see it all. The truth will come in January, right? Yes. Last thing, Eddie, before we let you go and we appreciate the time greatly. I'm just wondering, since you were so tied to that organization, you know, Saturday was a huge night for Bellator. Do you keep an eye? Do you look out of the corner of your eye? you watch, do you care at all? Do you like to see what the new air is all about,

or have you completely, you know, taking them out of your mindset? You don't even ever think about them, watch their events, etc. Anybody who follows me knows I can, it's never about the organization. It's about the fighters in it, being able to get your hands on the best guys in the world.

I have zero motions toward any promotion. I thought was really cool was the Pride Girl calling out the names. I missed that. When I did the Dream Tournament, that was like a first goal and dream of mine to have that lady announced my name. So that was neat to have that pride feel again, to see a promotion, trying to do something like old school pride. That was sort of real neat for me. And have them announce the fighters the way they did in the pride manner. That was all real cool and having her yell the names.

So I think everybody appreciated that. who's, you know, been following fighting long enough. Could appreciate to have her yelling in names like that. Yeah, Lenny Hart. She actually is the one who says my name at the top of this show, A Legend, and I agree it was great to hear her again. Well, it's great to talk to you again, Eddie. Very happy that you're healthy and that you have this fight,

that it's going down January 17th in Boston. It's going to be, I mean, I was there in Boston this past year on the NFL championship weekend, and it's just a great scene. I'm happy they're going back, especially as an East Coaster. So I wish you the best in training. Thank you for the time and can't wait for the fight. Okay, thank you, Carol.

All right, talk to you soon. There he is. Eddie Alvarez. What a great fight that is. Him and Anthony Pettis on that card headline by T.J. Dilleshaw versus Dominic Cruz, which you know by now how I feel about that fight. And what's interesting about it is it's on FS1. So that's the first time in the short history of Fox Sports 1.

They're now calling it FS1, by the way. And I like the new graphics. I like the rebranding, if you will, coming from, an employee, but that's my take. It's the first time that there's a title fight on FS1. There was one on Fuel TV. That was May Day McDonald versus Henna Burrow. That was an interim bantamweight title fight. This is a legit bantamweight title fight. This is the real deal. This is the one that we've wanted for a long time. And I just pray everyone's healthy and makes it to January 17th. And then you got a co-main event of Anthony Pettus versus Eddie Albers, a true co-mate event. Not one of these

Fugazi co-mean events. This is a true. co-main event. That's coming up. Also coming up, December 10th. What a week that's going to be in Las Vegas. December 10th is a fight pass show. And we just found out last week that it's going to be headlined by Paige Van Zand versus Joanne Calderwood.

Then you got December 11th. You got the tough finale, which is, you know, another good card. And Uri Fabor, who will be talking to is going to be on that card. He's fighting Frankie Science. Also, Habibnur Magamadav versus Tony Ferguson and Chad Mendez versus Frank Edgar is the main event. And then, of course, UFC 194 versus Jose Aldo. So that's back to, back to back in Las Vegas. And one of the big fights that weekend, it was officially announced last week. Although if you watch UFC tonight, you heard about it a couple weeks prior. It's Jim Miller, the pride of New Jersey going up against Michael Kesa. He joins us right now on the phone. Michael, are you there?

Doing really good. I'm bummed. We couldn't do Skype. I wanted to show you my house. You know what? It's so funny that you say that because I was equally bummed. That's why. one of the reasons that I wanted to have you on the show today, but I just want to make clear because we've had technical issues over the last month or so. This is not our fault. I don't know if you follow the news, but Skype is down around the world. Something's going on, and it's probably because the MMAA hours today because we've had horrible luck, but it's not our fault. Everyone's complaining about Skype. If you type in Skype on Twitter right now in the search, you'll see all these people complaining about it. So it's not our fault.

That's good to know. Okay. But you do mention the house, and I want to wish you Mazel Tov I know you're all settled in and it looks fantastic because I follow you on Twitter and I have to say this right off the top. You know, if anyone follows me on Instagram, I don't really like photos. I don't know why I never got into liking people's photos. But you posted something just a few days ago that really hit me. It almost made me tear up about you being at your house with your family, kids running around and of course your father and missing him. And this was like the culmination of a dream that you had, all your family and friends. being over and just kind of taking a step back and and just kind of enjoying the fruits of your

labor, smelling the roses and wishing that your father was there. It was, it was amazingly written. It was very touching. I really appreciated it. And I did like that photo because I loved everything about it. Can you, can you take us into that moment? What was it like for you when you and it almost hit you and you're like, wow, I made it. This is my house that I put together. My family's over. What was that like? It was surreal, man. It was something that, you know, it was hard for my parents to accept that, you know, I don't want to go to college. I have a dream. I want to be a professional fighter.

I want to fight in the UFC. And, you know, once my dad finally, you know, took it in and we sat down and talked, and he's like, you know, you need to set some realistic goals. You know, you need to, not everything's about winning and losing and not everything's about winning titles and stuff. Like, where some realistic goals from fighting, you know. And I was like, you know, one thing I want is I want to be able to say that when my career's done, one thing I need, I want to say I bought a house.

the fruits of my labor, just like you said, like everything I put into the sport at least gave me at home. And, you know, as my sister started to have kids and I just had, I always just envisioned being in my own house, just kids running around, just like, you know, Uncle Mike's house, that type of thing. And just, it didn't dawn on me until, like, the middle of the whole thing, you know, I would have thought that, you know, the first time my family's coming over, I would have been, like, building it up, like, oh, it's happening, he's happening.

But it just didn't even click in my head until every, you know, I would have thought that, you know, everyone was here, and we're like turning the football game on, I'm going, holy crap, this is the same thing I talked about seven years ago with my dad, and it's happening right now. So it was just, it was, you know, one of the best moments of my career, honestly, and I can honestly say that, you know, everything I've ever visualized in my career has happened, except for one thing, you know, and that's winning the world title. So it's cool to see that this is just one thing off the bucket list, and I just got one more thing to go, and I can honestly say that everything I've ever dreamt up in my head,

It's happened, you know. That's amazing. That's beautiful. By the way, I look at your house, at least from the pictures. It seems like you're really in the country over there. Are you not afraid? I feel like it's very lonely out there. It's very quiet.

You know, it's good, though. If you get away from the city, you know what I mean? I grew up out in the country, but not in the woods. And I've always just wanted to live in the woods. I like the solitude. I like having some property. And, you know, I got deer and turkey. I got a mountain line on my property somewhere.

I've been finding little evidence and clues all over the place. I got a cougar running around here somewhere. What? I just like it. Yeah, I do, I swear. Jesus, that doesn't scare you? I mean, I guess you're a cage fighter, so these things shouldn't scare you, but it makes me very nervous. It gets a little eerie at night.

Yeah. How far is your neighbor? My neighbors are about an acre away on either side of my house. So, I mean, there's neighbors. It's not like I'm like, you know, desolate, you know, like I have like a mile long driveway and no neighbors. Like I got some neighbors, but still definitely have some space. Yeah. And do you want that, you know, you say Uncle Mike and the kids and all that, do you want your own? Is that part of the dream as well?

Yeah, you know, I want kids sooner later, but it's just, you know, for me personally, uh, I just think that, you know, obviously I think my mentality would change if I had gotten to a situation where I ended up having a kid, but just right now, I just think that, you know, I just think that, I'm going to perform better through my career when it's just all about glory. You know what I mean? Like me, I just have to support myself. I don't have a wife. I don't have kids.

You know, my livelihood. I don't have other people depending on me. For me, I put enough pressure on myself. I just always imagine if I have kids, like, I would just be like, I have to win this fight or how am I going to support my kids. You know, that type of stress. I don't think I would do so well with that. So another reason why I wanted to have you on the show is because I'm curious as to what you look

like these days because we have a picture of you up, but it's from a couple of years ago in, I believe Seattle, your fight in Seattle on Fox. You got the big beard and all that stuff. But I saw, I saw photos of you. You're at pool parties and things like that. I mean, you're looking like a young Luke Rockhold out there with the sweet haircut and, you know, the baby face. You're unshaved. You know, you're all shaved and all that. What's going on? Why did we completely change our look here? Well, first and foremost, the beard is back. Okay, it's back. That's fantastic. It goes back. I took a different approach.

You know, my, I'm getting to the point now where my beard is actually, like, growing into my eyebrows. I guess it grows all the way up my cheeks, like the bottom of my eyes. Yes. It's like connecting to my eyebrows with my hair, so I just, lately I've been, you know, keeping it a little more sculpted, you know, a little more trimming. I'm just kind of not letting it go like I used to. Yes.

You know, keeping them mustache trimmed and stuff. But, you know, another thing I want to do is I want a shot at being an animal. You know, I love watching. watching UFC tonight. You know, I'm very critical of all the new fighters they have come on there. And I get a lot of feedback from a lot of people within the company that are like, man, you would kill it. You can't get behind the mic. So it's like, you know, I at least have to cut my hair. I can't do the whole bandbun, you know, funky long hair thing anymore. But, you know, the beer's got to stay. That's my staple. You know, I can't, I can't get rid of it.

Oh, yeah. You can make it, you can make it TV-like, corporate like, if you want to call it that. You can clean it up. I respect that you have a reason for doing it, and it wasn't just to get some ladies. So this is something that you really want to do. You want to be a TV analyst, like a Daniel Cormier, Kenny Floreen, et cetera? Oh, dude.

So bad. I just know, like, it's one of those things where I can just tell it would not make me nervous. I just, like, for me, I'm a stat guy. You don't have to hand me a sheet of stuff that I need to study. I am a nerd about this sport. I know guys just records, who they fought, how they win, who they're married to, where they dinner, you know, what kind of car do they drive?

You know, I'm always, you know, I'm a big nerd of the sport, and so it would be easy for me to just sit in front of a table of guys and talk about fighting. I mean, that's easy. That's, I just think it would be a lot of fun. I just want to definitely want to take my shot at it. And I see somebody's going to do it. Like, God dang, dude. Quit saying like and quit saying, speak clearly, you know what I mean? All of the sport, and this will be a lot easier for you.

Very well said. Well, I hope you get that opportunity. I think that would be great. And I hope you keep your beard if and when you do get that opportunity because there's nothing wrong. I mean, I don't have a beard like you. I wish I had a beard like you, like the one we see in our picture over here. But I think there's nothing wrong with a beard on television. So you get this fight against Jim Miller on this crazy weekend.

Are you happy that you're on this weekend, the first fight of these three in a row in Vegas? Yeah, it's the fight past show, but the atmosphere in Vegas is going to be nuts. Do you like that? Or are you afraid that you're going to be? might get lost in the shuffle. You know, I really like it. The one thing that bums me out is when Joe Silva called me, she called me and he goes,

we're going to do something for the first time in history. I'm like, oh, God, you're going to have me fight on like three days' notice or something. It's crazy. He's like, no, this is the first time in my career that I have called Dana and Lorenzo and been like, we need to do another show because the roster is so full and there's so many guys that need fights. If we don't, if we don't have another show, these guys are going to have to wait until spring.

And, you know, so the original idea was me and Jim is the main event. And I was ecstatic. You know, if I was fight pass or not, it doesn't matter anymore with the Reebok deal. You know, we don't have to worry about, you know, on Fight Pass, about sponsors and stuff. And, you know, at the end of the day, I'm super stoked because Vegas is like a second home for me. Again, I have so many friends and family that are going to come watch. And it's just I always like fighting in Vegas. So I'm not worried about getting lost in the shuffle.

I know that Jim and I are going to put on a great show. it'll be something that people are going to talk about. I mean, Jim brings it, I bring it. You know, it's going to be a really good fight, so I'm not too worried about getting lost in the shuffle. And how do you feel about the matchup? Was this one that you liked when you were approached? Oh, first and foremost, Jim Miller's a great guy.

Every time I've ever ran into him, he's always a class act. Really nice dude. I love his lifestyle. You know what I mean? Bearded hunting dude, bruised beer and lives out in the country. like he's a, you know, Jim and I are cut from the same cloth in a lot of ways. So I'm very excited to get out and to get to compete against the guy that not only is somebody that I grew up watching fighting, but, you know, it's just I think our styles make for a really

good fight. Where do you feel like he's at right now in his career? Because, you know, he had the tough loss to Soroni, comes back after a long left against Darution, didn't feel like we were seeing the real Jim Miller. rebounds, wins a split decision over Danny Castillo, but I still, I don't know where he's at right now. He's been fighting a long time, and, of course, at some point, your skills are going to deteriorate. Are you, are you thinking that you're catching him at the right time? Like, he's on the decline?

Do you feel like he's, you know, he's going back up? Do you have any kind of take on where he's at right now? I still think Jim has a ton of fight left in him. I mean, he's an animal. I mean, the guy said this will be his 21st fight, the UFC. He's never pulled out of a fight. the Darayush the Darayas match

I don't hold that one over his head because that was the last minute replacement he was supposed to fight Yankee Medea or no he's supposed to fight Paul Felder yeah so he's preparing for

you know a striker that spins in the back of it's all these crazy things and now you get a last minute replacement that's a Southpaw that's a big you know Brazilian Jiu Jitsu Blackthal

so it's like you know I don't hold that one over his head because that's just that you're talking about a drastic training camp change. Like you went from fighting a guy where you're bringing in kickboxers

to now, okay, I'm fighting a grappler. Send the kickboxers on. We've got to bring out the black belt team. You know what I mean? So I don't hold that one over his head. I still think Jim is, I don't, I don't ever like to look at a guy and he's on the tail end of his career.

It's going to make, you know, you're going to desensitize yourself and, you know, then you're going to go out there and fight back, what the heck happened? I thought this, you know, I've been preparing for a guy that's on the tail end of his career and he's kicking my ass right now. Right.

I'd rather just think this is the early Jim Miller, the guy that was out, you know, Nebar and Charles Olivera and beaten up, you know, Kamal Shal Roos and all these guys. So it's, you know, I don't look at it like that. And I'm assuming, you know, you're still a proud member of Sikjitu, which I love, because that's a small team, but it seems like you're all very close to each other to tighten a team. And no one really strays from the pack. What is it about that team that keeps you all so close? and really you haven't really

you haven't blown up I don't hear about many people coming and just like you know spending a month or two there so it really feels like it's the same sort of maybe this is not the best way to describe it but the founding members are still very much there and thriving why is that?

You know it's you know first and formal we got a great coach I mean Rick is very Rick Little's very underrated I mean you want to talk you know people always talk about Greg Jackson and a lot of these great coaches. But, you know, I feel like Rick should get a lot of credit

because if you look at the city we live in, which has no more than 300,000 people, you got four people in the UFC. I mean, just that alone, there's nobody else in the city that's in the UFC. There's nobody in Seattle that's even in the USC, except for Demetrius. So it's like the way he coaches,

it's not just about kicking pads and doing moves. Like there's a lot of, a lot of psychological stuff that goes on, a lot of small details. She's a good coach, and that's just kind of what keeps us together. Rick's one of my best friends, fans, one of my best friends. I'm really close with Julie and Liz. So that's just kind of what makes us a family. We travel a lot together and do a lot of things.

Rick has a lot of calls about people wanting to come in and do training camps and stuff, but he's, you know, we're not gym jumpers, you know what I mean? We don't really want to bring in guys that are looking for the, you know, looking for the secret, you know what I mean? Like, oh, I went to the lab for a couple of years, and then I went to ATT for a year. Now I want to come over here with you guys. Like, no, we're really not into that.

We don't want to bring people in and they're going to hang out for a while and then take what they learn here and go to these other super gym and expose some of our training methods. We've got a huge facility being built right now. It'll be done about three months. A lot of good things on the rise for sick jitsu, but, you know, I would say the glue to the team is definitely Rick. Are you going to Houston to support

Juliana and how far away do you think that she is from the Ronda Rousey discussion? Yes, I'll be there. I will be there at Corner, Julie, October 3rd. She's right in there. I mean, let's just put facts to facts. All right?

So you got Ronda Rousey, she's 6-0 in the UFC, correct? Yeah. Like 6-0, 6 finishes. Well, Julie, going back to her tough fights, she's 5-0 with 5 finishes. Four of those are in the first round. you know, I don't know how people are not picking up on that.

You know what I mean? So I think that she goes out and does what she does against Jessica. I think that you have to put her in the talks for the rousy fight. I mean, who else are you going to have to run up with anyways? You know, Holly, yeah, you got Holly home, but the only other options out there right now is Cyborg and the third Tate fight. I mean, she's already blown through everybody. And, you know, I think it's a lucrative fight.

The marketing for the fight would be great. You got the first time that a tough winner is going to fight the opposing coach. I mean, that's just very intriguing at the good selling point, you know. I don't even think of that. That's a good point. Yeah, so, I mean, just the marketing for it alone, it would be a very marketable fight. It would be very lucrative. A lot of people would tune in.

I think even more than they already would already with Rhonda. I mean, she's a big seller, but I think that Giuliana Pentee versus Ronda Rousey sounds a lot more lucrative than Holly Holmvers, you know, Ronda Rousey. I do appreciate you coming on today. I would imagine the folks over in Seattle are a little depressed today. Oh, and two to start the season? What's going on? Well, I'll tell you what happened. Guys got pain and they're not playing.

That's how I feel. I mean, I hate to sound like a dick, but it's kind of true. It's like, you know, game chancellor stood out of money, and it's like, dude, you know, what are you going to do? You think that you're just going to come back on the team once you get paid, and these guys are going to be happy with you. You know, it's like we lost that game against St. Louis because of him, because of the second string guy just filling in for his spot.

On the last freaking play, we lost because we didn't have damn chancellors. It's like killing us. We'll rebound, though. I mean, I don't really count, you know, the St. Louis, these last two games, I don't really count them as huge losses. I mean, Green Bay is one of the best teams in the NFL. You played Aaron Rogers in Lambo. He's got like almost 700 completed passes, no picks in Lambo.

That's a tough kind of beat, you know what I mean? So we'll see. I think next week at home, we'll really see where they're out for the season. Once they can, if they lose the CenturyLink next week, we're in trouble. Well, I'm happy you're still a fan because I saw you hanging out with Colin Kaepernick recently. So I wasn't sure. I mean, can a Seahawks fan really do something like that? It seems a little bit, I don't know, a little bit weird to me.

Actually, I ran into Colin at Exos. You know, the UFC. Yeah. talking about doing that deal with Exos. I ran into it there and actually had a good talk. Like the first thing I said, I'm a Seahawks fan, but, you know, I can appreciate any world-class athlete. So I got a chance to talk to me.

He's actually contrary to how the media portrays him. He's a freaking really nice guy. I mean, I will put him up there in the top three of nicest professional athletes I've ever met. He's just very genuine, very cordial. You know, judging by the things I've seen and heard about him from social media, I never would have thought he was the way he's. is. I think it's really, really a pleasure to talk to.

Wow. Can you still be a Seahawks fan and say that? Yeah, for sure. You know what's funny though? I said that, I brought that up to him. I was like, you know, how's this rivalry between you and the Seahawks? They just started laughing. I played ball with all those guys for years. The rivalry is not between us, teams. It's between the fans.

Yeah. Like, I'm friends with a lot of the guys on the Seahawks. I still talk to them on the phone, you know, on borderline a regular basis. So it's, you know, I think the real rivalry between teams is being developed with Green Bay. After seeing that game last night, that was pretty intense. All right. Well, I appreciate you coming on just a few hours after. I know it is somewhat of a dark morning in Seattle. You guys are used to those kind of cloudy mornings, but maybe O&2 brings on a little more clouds. In any event, I want to congratulate you on the new house, my friend, and the big fight coming up. Good luck in training.

good luck, of course, to Juliana at UFC 192, October 3rd, and I'm looking forward to this fight against Jim Miller. It's amazing. Miller no longer ranked the UFC rankings, and that just tells you just how deep... That's a joke. Fair enough, that just tells you how deep that division is. So that's a great fight, an important fight at 155, looking forward to it.

Best of luck. We'll talk to you soon, my man. Thanks, very. It was good to talk to you. All right, there he is. Michael Keesa, one of the top fighters in the UFC's lightweight division stopping by. he returns to action December 10th. All right, really looking forward to our next guest. Can't wait for this one. As I talked about early on in the show, even last week on the MMA beat, still very fired up, and it's not going to stop.

As we have seen more often than not in MMA, we kind of develop these causes, we get all fired up, and then we move on to the next one a couple days later. Well, what happened to Nick Diaz a week ago in Las Vegas is not something that is going to go away. least not on this show or any other show that I'm a part of because it was a crime, it was corrupt, it was disgusting, and a whole bunch of other things. So with that being said, I want to welcome in the man who represented Nick so very well, in my opinion, last Monday, his lawyer, Lucas Middlebrook is joining us right now to talk about what transpired and where we go from here. Lucas, are you there? I'm good. How are you? I'm doing great. Thank you so much for the time. So right off the top, a week later, I know you're not just working on the Nick Diaz case.

You got a lot going on, very successful, and I'm sure you're very busy, so I appreciate your time very much. But a week later, how do you describe what you were a part of last week in Las Vegas? Yeah, you know, if I had to describe the hearing, it was, in a ways it was not unlike other contested hearing in that it was an adversarial process, to say the least. but in a lot of ways it was definitely unlike a normal contestant hearing in that we were not presenting to an impartial either tribunal or even an impartial arbitrator where you present evidence, you rule on objections, and you have a hearing which has some process and some substance to it. I felt from the very first objection to a leading question that I proffered and I kind of got some laughs from a couple of the the commission members that I knew those objections weren't going to go very far in the hearing. But nonetheless, we still needed to make all of those objections that we felt were proper in order to preserve the record that we would need to take up to appeal in order to represent,

to represent Nick going forward. Were you expecting that kind of an environment? We had watched previous hearings with the commission. We were familiar before going in with the individual commissioners. So we knew going in, we weren't presenting to an impartial body that was going to give us a fair hearing, a hearing that we're used to in different contexts. So yeah, we were prepared for that type of environment. When you first met Nick and his manager, Lloyd Pearson,

and were able to look over the facts and found out that, you know, he was tested three times on fight night and first and second, excuse me, first and third, tests were sent to a wide-accredded lab, and he passed those tests, and then the second test was not, you failed that test, and there are all kinds of red flags surrounding it. Did you think, like, oh, wow, this is, I mean, this is a no-brainer, this is great, we're going to present this, it's all going to go well, he's not going to be punished. Were you confident, or did you know in the back of your mind when you're dealing with commissions and all that, that it's never that easy?

Well, when we first looked at the, initially, when we first looked at the facts, what you first get is a report that you've got two negatives and you've got a positive within a short period of time. And not until you dig a little deeper and get what we call are the litigation packets from each laboratory, that you then start seeing the concentration values. Once we saw the concentration values from the three different tests, we knew we really had some solid evidence that the Quest test was an outlier here. And so as we started to dive into that and discuss it with our expert, yeah, we felt very confident about the facts and the evidence. But I don't think we ever went in going into the commission with any false aspiration that those facts and evidence were going to lead to a great result from the commission.

We went in knowing that we needed to present those facts and that evidence in a manner that was clear, that could be understood, and that provided a really solid record if we had to take it up to a higher judiciary body. Why wasn't the B sample of that outlier test tested? A couple reasons. One, as our medical expert, as Dr. Keller explained during the hearing, we didn't feel a need for the B because we already had two negative tests from a different lab within hours of the Quest facility. And a second thing to understand is that in normal drug testing protocol, so the majority of drug testing in this country comes under the Department of Transportation.

They cover the airlines. They cover the maritime industry. The truckers have to take the test. They have protocol where if you request your B specimen at the B test, it is sent to a second independent lab, but it's not tested at the first lap. And you heard Commissioner Lundval explained to Dr. Keller that under the commission's protocol, they just have the same one tested at the exact same lab. So there isn't that second layer of independent analyses. And when we looked at that, given that we had two, not just one, but two separate specimens sent to the WADA lab, we didn't feel there was, there was any reason to have to be tested once again at Quest. So you serve as counsel to both the National Basketball Referees Association, also the professional soccer referees association. You have dealt with sports. You also obviously focus on labor and employment loss of litigation. It's a very impressive resume that you have. And Lloyd had been

telling me for quite some time that he hired the best and that you guys were going to be ready. I'm wondering, do you have any kind of history, the world of combat sports, and in particular mixed martial arts, and also in particular, dealing with commissions like Nevada? No, this is my first time presenting in front of Nevada, athletic commission. In terms of the administrative bodies, I've dealt with some in the transportation industry,

but my litigation experience up to this point is either in courts, or I also do a lot of work in labor arbitrations. So we represent a number of labor unions outside of the sports world where you'll have arbitrations over different. matters, including actually drug and alcohol testing litigation quite often. And it seemed to me like Commissioner Pat Lundval really took issue with the fact that Nick was going to plead the Fifth Amendment. It didn't matter if she asked him 27 questions as she did or 500. He continued to do that. And by the way, I was so very impressed. I don't know

how you got him to do it. Just Nick, you know, keeping cool and not losing his temper because I know many people, including myself, probably in that situation, would have lost their temper with all those questions and having to repeat Fifth Amendment over and over again. In hindsight, would you have done the same thing knowing how she reacted to that as wrong as it may have been? Absolutely. Without a doubt, my colleague Nick Granith and I do not regret that decision in any way, shape, or form.

It was the right decision. Nick was not going to get up there and be presented with an impartial questioning or examiner. I still feel like that the commission was out to embarrass him and for better lack of terminology to trip him up. And we did not see any positive value coming from having him answer any of their questions. And instead, he invoked a right that everyone in this country has under our Constitution is to not testify against yourself. And that right includes the right that a negative inference cannot be drawn against you for invoking that right. We firmly stand by that decision. Were you shocked at how many times, A, she asked them questions, and B, that they used this against them?

Like, we talked earlier about some of the issues with dealing with the commission like this, but to use the Fifth Amendment against someone seems to be, you know, taking things to a whole other level, and really does, that's what really told me that, wow, they are biased, and there's an issue here. Were you shocked at how they dealt with that, and in particular, Pat Lundval? I was very surprised for two reasons. One, as I advised in the hearing, it was my understanding and my legal interpretation that the Constitution, both of the United States and Nevada, would trump the Commission's regulations. But wholly aside, and apart from that, is their own regulations, as the way we read them, do not give them the ability to draw a negative inference against somebody who is invoking the Fifth Amendment. privilege. If Nick had just gone up and said, I'm not answering. I'm not answering. Or if he didn't

show up at all, then they would have the right under their own regulations to draw a negative inference. But the way we read the regulations is they can't do that when he properly invokes the Fifth Amendment. Have you seen some of these clips online of Pat Lundval's when they said, you know, is he testifying? She said he better be, or Francisco Aguilar and Anthony Marnell kind of joking when they overruled you and saying, did you bring your black robe? Have you seen these things that may not have been evident during the actual case or the hearing, I should say? I have not seen, I have not seen Commissioner Lundvald's comment, although I vividly remember her saying that at the outset of the hearing, and I immediately in response to advise her that

he would not be testifying. I did see the comment of the first objection of the other two commissioners later on, yes, I did. Does that bother you? I mean, do you feel like, I mean, you're spending time and money here to do the best work possible, present the best case possible, and really just represent your client as best as possible, lay out the facts, and it feels to me like they were mocking you. You know, it doesn't bother me,

and the reason is, well, two reasons, really. One, looking back at it, it was a proper objection. Mr. Eccles was leading his own expert witness. So I think the objection was proper. And two, any evidence, or demonstration that Nick did not receive an impartial hearing, thereby denying him due process, is only going to bolster our credibility and our support for an appeal. So it really doesn't bother me.

Did you know prior to the fact that Anthony Marnell, as recently as a year ago, owned 71% of a medical marijuana dispensary in Nevada? I did not know that going in. I now do know that. What does that tell you? I mean, does that, is that a whole other kind of worms? Would you have discussed that in the hearing had you known? No, I don't think I would have raised it in the hearing. My job was to defend Nick and defend Nick based on the facts and the evidence. And if there were outside issues going on with the commission, I don't think it would have been appropriate in my role as an advocate in that hearing. to bring that up, especially if, you know, if I didn't have proper evidence and tax to address it at the time. I saw the scrum interview that you were a part of after the fact outside of the hearing.

And a reporter, I believe it was John Morgan asked you, you know, in your opinion, what would have been, you know, the most fair punishment? And I recall you saying somewhere around a year, I kind of feel like he should have got no punishment because he passed the first and third test, and the second one, there's all kinds of, of red flags, why do you feel like he deserved any kind of punishment? Yeah, well, I mean, I guess the answer really is twofold. And one is more of a legal answer in that we did not think that they actually pled their complaint against Nick properly.

If you read paragraph 14 of the complaint, which is the loan allegation supporting discipline, it was limited just to the use or administration of a prohibited substance. And exactly like you just said, we think we presented more than enough. evidence to prove that that did not occur on January 31st. The only basis to which they could possibly had disciplined him if they had pled it properly, which we say they didn't, would be the incorrect answer by mistake on the questionnaire. And what is that? What was the answer that you should have put down? Well, he answered, he answered no, and arguably it should have been, should have been the opposite answer.

But if he has a test that shows that he, you know, he failed the 7 o'clock one and the 11 o'clock one, he passed those tests, why is no the wrong answer? Well, they entered over my objection. They entered evidence into the record that in the week leading up to the fight that Nick had come in over, albeit a lower threshold used for testing, you know, for a THC metabolite. Do you have any idea when was the last time Nick smoked marijuana before that fight? I have no idea. Okay. It's certainly interesting, and I know the big question that everyone wants to know, the answer to, is where do you go from here?

We're not experts at this stuff. We're just MMA people. What's the next step? How do we rectify this? We have to file what's called a petition for judicial review. It's a written document. It's similar to to if you were at a lower court level and you wanted to appeal their decision. But what you're doing is you're reaching out to the judiciary in Nevada, and you're asking them to review the decision that the commission made. And then you take up the record that you established in front of the commission as a factual basis to do so. And so you wrap all the facts and you create your legal argument in a written document,

and you file it with the court. And then, of course, the commission gets a chance through its attorneys to respond in writing. And then at some point, you may have an oral argument or a hearing with the judge who would then issue his findings, his decision, his or her. And what kind of timeline are we looking at? The petition, our petition has to be filed 30 days with the court. Now, we've already started work on that, but according to the commission's regulations, they actually have to make a written decision of their findings. So that's something, obviously, that we're still waiting to come through. So it would be 30 days from those findings.

But we've already, my colleague Nick Granip has already started work on the petition. And is there any chance that, you know, they delay that so that it exceeds 30 days so that you can't file that petition? Can they do that sort of thing? Oh, no, no. That type of game playing wouldn't, you know, there wouldn't really be any basis for that whatsoever. these are judicial timelines and, you know, they're not to be played with in such a manner. Are you confident that something will be done here that this will be rectified?

I mean, often, as you know, government versus government, it's tough. It's tough to take the government to court. Do you think that they, you know, at the end of the day, this will be rectified in next favor? I'm confident. I really am confident in our case in front of the judicial system. I'm confident because of the facts and the evidence. evidence that we put on in the hearing. I think they were compelling.

And I think we have good legal arguments for an abuse of discretion on behalf of this commission and really an abuse of power and the denial of due process. And we'll bring up everything from the comments on minor objections to their misinterpretation of how the Fifth Amendment interplays with the regulations. and really just an inability to listen to the facts and make an appropriate decision based on those facts. So I am confident. And I have no basis, but I wouldn't rule out, like in any litigation, you know, the potential chance for some sort of non-judicial resolution prior to a judge issuing his findings.

You know, if there were settlement offers on the table or settlement demands, obviously we would listen to, we would listen to anything. They've received a lot of criticism, a lot of pressure has been put on them. Do you think that will happen? A settlement? I don't know if it will happen. I really, I can't speak to their frame of mind. I mean, I've had no contact with anyone at the commission since the conclusion of the hearing.

I've had no contact with Mr. Eccles since the conclusion of the hearing. But if the roles were reversed and I was representing the other side, you know, I always listen to settlement offers or settlement demands. because in a lot of ways, you better serve your client in those capacities than fighting for an extended period of time. And has this evolved into something greater than just the Nick Diaz case in a sense? You know, you had facts in front of you had a case that was a very strong one, in my opinion. But now when you talk about an abuse of power and, you know, ignoring the Fifth Amendment and using that against it, this is something else, right? I mean, are you, are you, is your role now evolving into a much larger case?

You know, I would, as an advocate and somebody who quite often goes up against larger corporations, like I said, I do a lot of work for labor unions with big corporations, you know, I would prefer to see these individuals get some sort of an impartial hearing when these disciplinary complaints are lodged against them. This is their livelihood. This is these fighters' ability to earn a living. and it seems like they're not given a fair hearing before that can either be taken away for a certain amount of years or taken away forever. And that is at odds with the entire concept of just cause.

So I would love to see them institute a different type of hearing where there is an impartial third party. But, you know, that's a political issue. That's a legislative issue. And I don't know if that's going to happen. You know, the bigger issue here. is the drug testing protocol or lack of protocol that the commission uses. As I was digging into this case, I started to realize there were no set protocol on how these tests are administered, the chain of custody requirements.

You've got two separate laboratories using two separate collection methods, using two separate testing methodologies. That was one thing that actually came out in the hearing was that the Quest Lab, does what's called an immune essay screen first. And if it's seeing a number of metabolites at or above the cutoff level, then it goes to a confirmatory analysis. And Dr. Eichner from Wada explained over the phone that they go right to the GCS, the confirmatory analysis.

So there's no set protocol in place. And if I was an athlete or any type of person subject to drug testing, that would scare me. because consistency in the process resulting consistency in the outcome. And there just isn't that consistency at that point. And that's something when you look at federally mandated drug testing, they are very strict about it. There is an entire code of federal regulation just about how you properly collect urine,

how it is sent to the lab, and how it is then reviewed by a medical review officer prior to any results being released. You need those layers of protection when you're dealing with. something this serious. You represent the NBA Referees Association. Do you believe or do you feel, with your limited knowledge now of mixed martial arts, that the fighters need an association like that? I would think that it would only help them.

And outside of compensation and other terms and conditions of employment, one thing is if you formed an association, you'd be governed by the National Labor Relations Act. and the case law under that act says that drug testing, drug end or alcohol testing, is a mandatory subject of bargaining. So that's a subject that the employer has to sit down across the table and iron out with you. And it's a subject that if you can't reach agreement on it, you can then declare an impasse and either side can resort to self-help. So similar to wages, it is a mandatory subject of bargaining.

So that would be one way with which to build some parameters around this and protect these athletes. Like I mentioned, there is no medical review officer at the end of this drug testing process. And that's, that's alarming because that's a protection that's put in place as a gatekeeper for a medical doctor like Dr. Keller to look at a result from the lab, to call an individual and to discuss if there's any medical, medically plausible explanation for the result before that result even gets released to anybody else. And that, they don't have that here. And that's another alarming issue. Given their behavior at the hearing, would you like to see these commissioners step down?

Do you not think that they should be fit to govern state Nevada in combat sports? You know, that's, that question is probably a little bit above my pay grade. I obviously would not be the one making those decisions. and, you know, I can't really speak to how they choose to conduct themselves in these hearings or how they feel like they are allowed to conduct themselves in this hearing. All I can say is that, you know, I hope that going forward, you know, more athletes subject to this, have the ability or come prepared to defend themselves and to stand up to what would otherwise seem to be a hostile commission. A fighter named Henry

Sohudo came out and said he will not fight in Nevada anymore as a result of this. Would you advise any fighter that came up to any client of yours to do the same? You know, that's a very individualized decision for a fighter because

he could be limiting his or her ability to earn, but I will tell you from an ideological union standpoint, the solidarity in that action is is commendable. To stand behind someone in a like position where you, at least in the short term, at least in

the short term, could take a financial hit, but you're standing up to fix a bigger problem. I really cannot commend anyone who make those decisions enough. It's really an amazing gesture. And what do you make of this White House petition? If this actually does reach 100,000 signatures, e-signatures, if you will, Could something really happen here? You know, there's no telling. The only thing that, you know, I don't want to undervalue it because I think it's wonderful.

And again, it's a show of solidarity. But 100,000 signatures get the White House will review, and they will respond. So at least from a position of bringing more light to this topic and more light to Nick, then I think it can only absolutely have a positive effect. In terms of the White House commanding some sort of overturning of the decision, I just, you know, I don't know. I don't know what to expect on that front. It's amazing to me, and I know you're relatively new to MMA,

that someone like Nick Diaz, again, this sort of anti-establishment figure in our sport, again, another lone wolf, a guy who really has not, you know, he's not been a part of the system, so to speak, has elicited this kind of response and has brought the sport together from the journalists to other commissioners and other states to other fighters. I don't know if you see the irony in that, but it's really an amazing thing that this case has resulted in and the byproduct of it all. Yeah, I agree with you. And I think that one common bond between and why there's been such an outpouring of support, I think, is equity. people want to see other people have a fair hearing.

That's what our entire judicial system is built upon. In the criminal context, you're innocent until proven guilty. And American jurisprudence, going back to the very beginning, this concept of we'd rather see seven guilty men go free than one innocent person hang. And that's what our entire system is built upon. And I think that resonates with people. And I think people who watched the hearing came away thinking,

he didn't get a fair hearing and they didn't examine the evidence that was presented in front of that. I really think that rubs people the wrong way. It certainly rubs me the wrong way. Last question, and again, really appreciate your time. So you mentioned those 30 days. I'm just curious again for those of us

who don't know about this stuff. What's the next step after that? Can you just kind of lay it all out for us so that we can have some kind of idea what to expect here with this? Yeah, sure. And I would, you know, the time Timelines have 30 days is for us to file.

Yeah. And then the responsive, the responsive timelines, unfortunately I would, I have to defer to. I have local counsel in, in Las Vegas, Nevada. And that's typical when you have an out-of-state attorney coming in. They have to support your petition to practice law on that state for a one-time basis. So they would really be more in tune in terms of the responsive timeline. But like I said earlier, we file our petition, which is a written document, and then we would serve that on the commission as well. And the commission's attorneys have a chance to then respond

again in writing. And at some point, whatever judge is assigned to the matter would hold some sort of oral argument or a hearing, and then thereafter issue a written decision on the matter. All right. We will stay tuned. Again, thank you so much for the time. Tremendous work last weekend in Las Vegas. It was a real pleasure after, I don't know if you heard of the Anderson Silva hearing a month prior. After that deba, to see a team actually come well-prepared and ready and with some facts to back up their claims, some legitimate facts. It was real refreshing in our sport to see that. So well done to you and the team and looking forward to the next steps and hopefully seeing this whole thing play out the

way it should have played out. Thanks for the kind words and I really appreciate you having me on. All right. There he is. Lucas Middlebrook, the attorney for one Nick Diaz. You know, I feel weird about the whole thing because it does feel like, you know, when you're a journalist and you're supposed to be impartial as we are expected to be, you're not supposed to be biased and you're not supposed to have a take and you're not supposed to ask certain questions or in certain directions. And I feel weird because it's clear how I feel about the issue, but I can't help myself. It just feels like the right thing. It feels like like like this is how does anyone else not see that what transpired a week ago in Las Vegas was completely wrong. It was so disappointing to watch, so frustrating, it was corrupt. It was, in my opinion, criminal what was done to him, to take away his livelihood for five years

and essentially almost ending his career. What other than criminal comes to mind? Right? Unbelievable. Anyway, let's move along. Final guest of the day. Always great to have him on the show. Always love talking to him.

Always love hearing his voice. We're talking about the California kid. Uriah Faber, who joins us online number one. on your eye, are you there? I am. What's up, dude? Do you share my sentiment here about the whole Nick Diaz thing? I don't know how much you've been following it, but it's really... I wasn't listening to the show before getting on, but just caught the very tail in.

And, dude, first off, I mean, Nick and I are friends. I met him when he was running a triathlon. My girlfriend was doing in 2003 or 2004, and the guys that stand up, he's an misunderstood guy. He's not the best with voicing himself. He's got some issues, but, I mean, he's a good person. I mean, it really bothers me what they're trying to do to him. Yeah, it's really disgusting. And hopefully he has, you know, it seems like he has a good team behind him,

and this thing will get rectify. I do think it brings up a larger issue in our sport, but that's a different discussion for a different day. That's not why we have you on the show today. You've got a lot going on. You're returning to action on December 11th. you're on the ultimate fighter, but in particular, I wanted to have you on the show because late last week on Fox Sports.com, your old pal, your former coach, Dwayne Bang Ludwig, essentially kind of

issued this open apology to you. But to be honest, it was one of those apologies where it was like, yes. Yeah. Oh, I just wanted to give you my take. It was one of those like, if I did anything wrong, you know, I'm sorry, which sometimes isn't the best apology. And I don't know, it's often not received very well. I want to get your take on it. Do you think it was a good apology? Are you happy with the apology? Are you ready to move on? Oh my gosh, man. You only, I mean, you know, because you and I have talked offline before and I said, hey, don't beat this. I'm trying to, you know, find out the radar with this. You know the drama I've had to go to with this guy, and it's so unfortunate because, I mean, I tried to help this guy. And an apology is not an apology

because you said the word apology. And a joke is not a joke just because the person who says it laughs. It's not a harmless joke. And you don't get to live in your own reality. And this guy comes out, and I find out today, actually, that one of the guys that had gone out there because didn't want to leave T.J. on his own when T.J. was going to go out and train for a little bit. Had gone out there had told Dwayne, I just found this out today after practice,

that he wasn't going to go out. out there anymore because of what he's trying to do to our team. He's trying to rip it apart. And you know, but not everybody knows, Dwayne, like, half-heartedly, delusionally tried to sue the team, which was bizarre. The week before my fight was Frankie Edgar. And then he openly says these things about our team, which is hilarious because he hasn't been with the team for a year and a half, but he's still holding on his dear life,

about how no one trains like a champion, which is super ironic and weird. for him to say that when he's not around the team for a year and a half. And then he gets the news that this guy's not going to go out with him. There's only, you know, one guy that really has been trained with him, and I don't ever want to, you know, take anything away from the guys. But that's why, and Dwayne says, oh, I'm going to make it right. So that's why Dwayne tries to do this apology. And in doing it just makes a bunch of false accusations about me,

a bunch of stuff that is not true. and just slanders me and says, oh, and I apologize if I ever did anything. I mean, you want to talk specifics. You know I've been trying to take the higher road with this guy that's been trying to break the team down. But, I mean, I can talk about specifics. I said, you know, dysfunction falls the guy

and the guy's a bully. And, I mean, it's unfortunate, man. I really tried to help this guy out. And, you know, from giving him advice and helping building his brand on, you know, teaching about a lot of different things, giving him an opportunity to work with great athletes, which he did a great job. I mean, the reason you bring a coach in is to learn from them.

We still use some of the stuff that he shows. But just the blatant, like, ex-girlfriend mentality, like, crazy ex-girlfriend of, like, trying to break the team down is just bizarre to me. I don't get it. Okay. I want to try to start at the beginning of when this all started to unravel because, you know, from our perspective, we were, I remember during, you know, the heyday of band, and Alpha Male. We were celebrating Coach of the Year. You guys were kicking ass. It all

looked great. And then all of a sudden we find out that, you know, he's leaving and we don't really know why he's going to open his gym start his thing, which is, you know, you find you can respect that back home in Colorado. From your perspective, when did things start to go south? When did it all start to change for you? Well, I saw the article that Duane put out, which was basically that there was problems from beginning. Yeah, that's why I wanted to ask you that. Yeah, so, to be honest with you, So I had a couple of lists of guys, and I hate to see. I'm a guy that likes to help people.

I built this team. I've funded this team. I've put in my time and sweat equity. I like to help people in general. I do things all the time to help folks and I'll put money in my guys' pockets or do stuff for Cherry. I mean, I like to do that stuff. Dwayne was a guy, and when he was on a short list of guys that I was checking with for coaching, Mark Delgado has his gym and has his family.

out in Boston and talk to Phil Nurse. He has his stuff in New York. Mark Harmonic has his wife, has a great job, and he has a gym out there, and he couldn't really move. And I talked to Dwayne, and Dwayne doesn't have a house.

He doesn't have a gym. He actually confides to me that he's on his last leg for money because the UFC had screwed him, on, you know, didn't give him some bonus or smaller bonus and all the stuff, and he's, you know, he has a couple, he has, like, three affiliates

that pay him $100 a month, sometimes, but not very dependable. He said, oh, what great timing, et cetera, et cetera. And I hate to see that. A guy who's put in a lot of, I mean, a lot of guys didn't know who he was on our team. T.J. didn't even know who he was. But I did. I mean, I've been a fan of this sport.

And Dwayne was a good fighter, you know, striking especially, was really good. And just, I hate to see a guy that's broke and out on the street after, you know, putting his life into something. So I thought this would be a great opportunity. right off the bat I I I

see you I'm right off the bat I go to a glory fight in Las Vegas and one of the guys that trains out with Duane in Colorado is like hey man I just I just use another coach

that was coaching out there where all those guys were at he goes I just want to warn you Duane's gangster about money and I'm like and I was like ha ha yeah I mean, what do you mean?

He's like, I'm just telling you, he'll, like, fight people over money. He's got really, he gets really weird about money. And I'm like, I'm thinking, I've never had an issue with anybody about money anyways. So I'm like, you know, not a big deal, whatever. I'm like, okay, well, thanks. I mean, we're just happy to have him. He just seems like a good guy, et cetera. Oh, my gosh, is that foreshadowing, dude?

Unbelievable. So the first conversation I have with Dwayne is on the phone. I'm like, hey, Dwayne, I just landed because I was on a trip. and, you know, Master Tong was an amazing trainer, but his dependability broke down. He started losing guys' trust because he wasn't always showing up. He was an amazing striking coach. He's coach boxing champions and kickboxing champions and MMA champions,

but his dependability and his just general availability was not there. He was for about a year and a half, he was kind of like an absentee stand-up coach. So I said, hey, dude, we're looking for someone to come in. I mean, do you have a house? Do you have a gym? What's your situation? like now, and that's when he kind of confides me. I said, I like to have you out to come check out the team.

I said, you know, to be honest with you, this is the first time we'll have funded for a team for a coach on our own. And at this time, you know, we did such a great job of building the guy up. People forget, I was a number one contender at this time. I just lost a brow in a decision fight. TJ was in my corner because Master Tong wasn't able to come to Canada, and TJ had, you know, know everything that Master's. tongue like, could hold

myths like him, could do everything. He worked with me and Phil Nurse when I had Phil Nurse out, me and T.J. worked together. But T.J. was my main corner guy, and I think he's my main training partner and had done everything that I had done, and knew me like the back of his hand. You know, Joseph had just lost

a title fight. Chad Meniz had just lost a title fight. We had the number one finish rate in the whole sport for Team Alpha male. And I said, Dwayne, look, dude, we have the best team in the world. I I think, you know, you'd be a compliment to our style. We'd love to learn some more stand-up and just someone that kind of oversees,

like being there every day committed because I'm traveling a lot and a lot of guys are traveling. We have other coaches, but he's like, oh, yeah, yeah. And so he comes out, does a, you know, like two days with us. And I'm like, you know, sounds good to me. You know, this is the first time I've done this. So we start talking on the phone. I said, look, this is what we can offer last year. And this is the year when I fought one time in 13 months.

and I'm the top breadwinner for the team at this point for sure. I thought one time in 13 months, and as far as money raised from contributions from the team, it was far below what we were going to offer them as a coach. And I said, you know, we had a bad year this last year. Joseph sat out and had that one fight, and Chad had the one title fight, and I had my title fight, and I only got to fight in one month.

I said, judging on that, this is what we'll be able to afford paying you, which was a good salary, especially for a guy, had no money coming in, as he claimed, and it was in a hard spot. And I said, you know, we can do something where, you know, it's this salary or 5% of purses, whichever is larger, you know? And I said, and I talked to all the guys, and no one was willing to give up their discretionary bonuses, except for me, which turned out to be a huge problem because discretionary bonuses, no one knows you get them.

They become discretionary, right? So then I say, you know, Dwayne, I, because I've funded this team anyways, and I always, always contribute more because this is my team, I will contribute my, my, uh, my discretionary bonuses because sometimes they're large to, to make sure that we meet that salary, so we get to that point so that we have enough. And also, you know, when the 5% gets bigger, uh, you know, we get to greater as, you know, um, then, then you can, you can have that. She's like, okay, okay, I put all this in writing, salary, everything else. Seriously, like two days later, Dwayne calls me and wants more money and I said

I'm like okay and I'm like you know whatever it was weird he called and said he wanted more money I said I know but Dway can't I mean this is what we made last year Danny Castile was actually the top contributor to the team that year because he fought like four or five times in the year and TJ was I think ranked number seven but still on that the ultimate fighter contract but you know a killer in the gym Chris Holderith had just won the ultimate fighter hadn't really started getting paid yet.

Page was not even in the picture. Cody wasn't even in the picture. I feel he wasn't even making money yet. So it was like, you know, we're at a point where I said, dude, this is what we can afford. I said, I'm not. I mean, if you can't do it, you can't do it. He's like, okay, no, that's fine, whatever. So he comes.

And I told him, I said, look, dude, I said, this is what I plan on doing, man. I'm going to blow your name up. I said, I'm going to, I'm going to make a huge deal about this thing. I'm going to, you know, reach all the media. We're going to do a press release. and we're going to build you as this hero, you know? Like a guy comes in and, you know, get you on interviews, do this and do that. I said, when that starts happening, you're going to get opportunities.

I said, you can get your own sponsors. You can get, you can do seminars. You know, I think really building your brand, this will be good for it. And you said you have your affiliate program and you can start blowing that up. And so he's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, getting all excited about it, whatever. The guy comes out. he comes out and starts teaching classes and he's doing a great job the first fight he corners someone is danny castillo

and so he corners danny castillo and you guys can go back and watch the tape on this danny is i think maybe the first one on the live card but he's not the first prelim there's a guy in the first prelim is the guy that uh is like a you know one of the pikey like gypsy guys i forget the guy's name he's he's not the first prelim he's a guy that's a you know one of the He's, like, known for being kind of a gypsy. Gypsy? From, uh, UK. Yeah.

From where? Like, uh, from the UK. Oh. I forget his name. Yes. Okay. Elias. Go ahead.

Yeah. Anyways. So that guy is the first fight on the car, and he's wearing a few of the fighter shirt. So a half an hour before Danny goes to fight, because Dwayne had just got there. He doesn't have any sponsor yet. He has his peanut butter sponsor, and he has a booster sponsor with a glove. And Dwayne is getting, like, free peanut butter.

You know? And so, you know, which he starts selling peanut butter at the front desk at our gym, right, when he first starts getting there. So he goes to the fight, the very first fight, corner on the guy, and 30 minutes before the fight, he goes and finds the fear of the fighter guys and says, hey, guys, for $250, $250, I'll wear a few of the fighter shirt in his corner of Danny. He sells it. I got Danny Castillo. He's fighting on this card. It's going to be on the prelim here, blah, blah, blah, this and that. I'll do this, whatever.

So he comes out, and I didn't know this because it was 30 minutes before the fight. I see him coming out. And he's wearing that guy's signature shirt. So the very first five of the card, he's got that guy's name in a Fear the Fighter shirt while Danny's got his own sponsors going on. And so it's just kind of awkward, but I'm like, okay, you know, he can wear his own sponsor. It doesn't bother us. If it doesn't bother Danny, that's fine. Right.

So he gets himself $250 to wear this shirt. to walk out. So I'm like, okay, this is like just the very beginning of it. Then he's back in the gym and he's getting his salary and then he starts charging everybody for privates. And like there's a point where T.J's like, man, I don't know what to do, man. Duane's like, bleeding me. He's like, I'm doing his videos for him after class.

I'm doing this and he's still charging me for privates. I need to have a talk with him. That T.J. starts, you know, how to talk with him. And he's like charging him when I'm like, I feel bad for the guy. He's selling peanut butter at the front desk. He's, like, you know, doing all these things to make extra cash. He's leaving every single weekend to go to a seminar, even if it's for a couple hundred bucks.

I'm like, yeah, I appreciate the hustle. But, like, let's just settle down. Let's let the apple grow into a ripe red apple before you start trying to, like, pull it off the tree when it's green and sour, you know, like, give it some time. So he keeps wanting to have business discussions with me, and I keep telling him this. I'm like, you know, Dwayne, instead of, you know, $250 for a shirt, why don't you pump up your own brand, you know, this kind of thing, you know. So then it comes to my first fight that he corners me. And I'm like, you know, I have my partner, Scott, who's in Texas, who owns TORC,

and so Dwayne wants to wear his own shirt in my corner a conflicting brand, Fear the Fighter instead of TORC, or instead of his own shirt. Dwayne or the peanut butter or booster or whatever it is. I said, Duane, I said, dude, my partner's going to be pissed off. Like, I didn't okay this with him if you wear another brand. Like, no one talked to him. He's going to be pissed. I said,

you know, can you wear like a Dwayne Bang shirt or one of your other sponsors or something like that? He's like, yeah, I said, or I said, if you want, this is 30 minutes before I'm about to go fight, my fight. I can't remember who I was fighting against. I got a submission in the first round. I can't remember who

was. But, And so he's, I said, but you know what, here, dude, here's his phone number. If you can call him and get the okay from him, grand, this is 30 minutes before I'm about to go out and fight for my fight, and this is the first time having him in the corner. If you can go out and get him to, if you can talk to my partner and get him to okay wearing the shirt, then, then you're good, you know. So he goes and calls, and apparently I didn't find this out until afterwards. He tries to shake down my partner for 300 bucks. he's like trying to get trying to get my guy to pay him 300 bucks to wear my shirt this and that

and I'm like I didn't know till way later when my partner told me and I'm like you know it just was baffling me so he ends up wearing a dwayne bang shirt or one of his other sponsors or an inside out shirt or something like that isn't wear the conflicting thing doesn't say anything to me and then this is where the animosity starts so then he, you know, when he came here, he said, you know, you're, you told me when I got here, you were going to get me sponsors. And I'm like, dude, I had to go over this with him four times in the year he was there that I never said I was going to get him the sponsors.

I said, dude, I said, you could get your own sponsors. I never told you I had sponsors ready for you. I mean, none of our guys had residual sponsors going, you know, at the time. It was a hard time, especially in the sport. and I had no idea that he even thought that I was supposed to get him sponsored or he didn't even said that. So he has, and I said I would introduce you to my managers who are, you know, could maybe help you if you want to talk to him.

He's like, oh, I don't do managers, I've got a manager, I don't sign contract, blah, blah, whatever. I said, okay, fine. So then he brings out his manager at the time. And we all have a meeting and he's like, you said you were going to get me sponsors, blah, blah, blah, blah, this and that, blah, blah, blah. And I said, Dwayne, I never said you were going to get you sponsors. And, like, I don't know where you're getting that from.

He's like, the first time we talked, you said I could have my own sponsors. And I'm like, yeah, you can have your own sponsor. He's like, well, you didn't let me wear my shirt in your corner. Well, like, this is where all the animosity from him comes from, is that he wasn't able to wear his shirt in that corner for the very first time. And I'm like, okay, I said, well, we can do it. We just have to okay it before, not 30 minutes prior. and you can wear anything else you want, but just, you know, we have to okay things.

Like if the UFC doesn't want you to wear something, you can't wear it either, like there's a process to go through, et cetera. He's like, okay, okay, so we talked about that, and I got the misunderstanding out of the way. Then on top of this, he's being really, really nice, you know, thanking for the opportunity, and it's amazing to work with all these athletes, and, like, being real nice, and sometimes he's not, and he's asking me for business advice. and, I mean, I had to do, for as far as business device, device goes, I had to tell him, like, like, first off, he did an article where he's talking about how he first watches tape normal and then he gets super high and watches the tape again. And I'm like, look, Dwayne, if you're trying to, like, build a brand and trying to, you know, get affiliates that are going to be teaching kids, it's probably not the best thing to, like, be, like, overly promoting the fact that you, like, spend a lot of time, you know, doing a legal stuff.

substance is, or not illegal in Colorado now, but doing stuff that some kids may not want. I said, I mean, great if you want to do that. Just like, you know, don't make it a focal point of your, like, success. And he's like, oh, yeah, yeah, I get you, I get you here. You know, he's asking me about a bunch of different stuff with how do you build himself. I said, you know, building relationships with the media is great, getting on as much media as possible and talking about your brand. Wearing your brand instead of wearing other people's brand, even if they pay you like 200 bucks, look at the bigger picture.

These are all things I had in talks and mentoring him. You know, got all the guys to pump up this stuff, et cetera, right? So, you know, it becomes the thing where, where I'm like, he's my coach.

I'm kind of his boss. He's, I'm like trying to be a counselor for the guy because he's, he's, you know, upset about all these different things. He's misinterpreting things

like, like saying that I was supposed to get him as a bunch of sponsors. Like, even as it means, like I could just up and make the sponsor out of the blue. So this is where, like, there started to be a little bit of a disconnect. But it still is fine. Like, we're still working together, et cetera, just on occasion these things would come up.

So that's the very beginning of it. All right. And then, you know, as far as the culture of our team goes, our culture is what's made our team great, man. It's been a really giving place. It's been where it's a co-op. It's, you know, we help each other out. We, I mean, we beat the crap out of each other. but it's a fun environment, it's a helpful environment.

Like, you know, and, like, that was the first thing that I saw as a negative effect from him, and I had to talk to him on a number of occasions. And as far as the bullying thing goes, I mean, it was pretty bad, man. I mean, it was a bad, it was a bad issue, and I had to talk to him a couple times about it. What do you mean by that when you say bullying? So, and it wasn't necessarily, I mean, it was never with any of the guys that were top dogs on the team. it was the guys that were not the top dogs on the team. You know, I mean, I had a girl from Alaska that says that Dwayne keeps on saying these comments to me.

And first off, Dwayne refused to work with any but any females. He said, I just want to tell you, I'm not supported women's MMA. I won't be working with anybody. I'm not going to work with Paige. I'm not going to work with this and, you know, Nikki. I'm not going to work with Veronica. You know, I don't believe in it. And I'm like, okay, you know, that was an issue.

The second thing was he was saying racial things. That's what I say when you say things are jokes. They're not jokes just because you laughed at them, especially if they're hurtful things, you know. So I had two of the African-American guys on our team that had approached me and said, you know, this is getting real uncomfortable. It's funny one time, I guess, when he says stuff like, all right, all the black guys at the end of the line,

but he's saying it every single day. And then one guy said, you know, every single time I'm in the gym and I'm talking to a girl, you know, Dwayne will yell across the gym, hey, so-and-so, 25 feet, all black guys, 25 feet from the females, you know, and he says, you know, I mean, I get if he thinks it's funny, whatever, but he keeps doing it. It's really good on my nerves. So I had to talk to Dwayne about that. I had to talk to him about not breaking people down.

Like, you know, one girl from Alaska said that, you know, Dwayne keeps saying, you know, you're pretty terrible and you should just quit. And I'm like, you know, and she goes, I know he starts laughing like he's joking, but I know he's serious. And, you know, she wasn't the best girl on the team. I mean, there was some, you know, it was mean is what it was. So, you know, I had to talk to him about that. Then on the outside, I had another guy, he had kind of more of a karate style, and Dwayne was always picking on him because of, you know, his kicks or whatever, you know, wasn't the way he liked it. said something to me. On top of that, I had my managers who Dwayne basically struck a little fear into.

One time my one manager was talking and Dwayne told him to shut the F up what he's talking and it got like real awkward and silent and my manager said, don't talk to me like that. And then Dwayne said something like, well, don't, you know, when I'm speaking, you don't speak. That kind of thing. Which I had to talk to him about that. Then there's my other manager where he had, you know, he showed up, Dwayne would only show up for the day of the fight. He wouldn't show up for the week prior because, you know, he was doing seminars

or didn't want to lose money or whatever. So he would only show up until it was time for him to leave. Then he started showing up for the week to do all the media. He would only show up the day of the fight. So he wouldn't go and help prep, do the weight cut or anything like that. He'd go to the day of the fight. He'd do a seminar in the morning. and then he would show up at the venue to corner you, right?

So he shows up the day of a fight, and we've all been there, and he has no affiliation with my managers. I introduced him my manager, he told them he doesn't need managers, he doesn't sign contracts, he'll do it, you know, he has someone he's dealing with already. They don't have any obligation to him whatsoever. So he gets to the venue on the day of the fight and doesn't have his room set up, which is not our manager's job to get his room set up,

and he sees him a manager in the hallway, and basically makes my manager very uncomfortable, and I get a call from him and says, I don't know what Dwayne's gilis, he's a loose cannon, he's got in my face because he didn't have a room. He's like, that's not my obligation, but he's like, he's a scary guy, and I'm not a fighter.

I'm not trying to fight the guy. So I talked to Dwayne again. Duane says, oh, I was just joking. You know, it's not a joke just because you think it's funny, right? So the last one was A UFC executive So this guy is like an instrumental guy in my career You know someone that really helped me out

He's been a big part of the UFC And just a good guy all around And Dwayne had wanted some tickets from the guy And so He asked if he'd hook him up with some tickets Because he had two friends coming to town, etc. and later find out that the guy actually went through and tried to do it but didn't go through. You either get yate or nay for tickets.

Duane sees him in the hallway and the guy's with his wife and he gets comfortably close to him and he starts saying stuff about the tickets and then he puts his hands on the guy. And the guy trains him a man and he's not a scared guy and basically sticks up for himself. He's in front of his wife, etc. And just calls me to Stratt and said, you know, I'm just going to let you know. you know, Dwayne's going to, I'm going to have, if I report this, Dwayne will not be allowed to coach you when there's a real strict rule about people touching executives and he got in my face and was trying to pump me because of some tickets.

And I don't even know, I did try to give them the tickets. I didn't even know they didn't go through, you know, and this and that. So I had to take Dwayne aside and I had to say, Dwayne, you know, you're on the verge of getting kicked out as a coach. You can't be bullying people because you want things. You know, if you want something and someone can't do it, it's that's not it's not you know your opportunity to go and intimidate them and so this guy i actually talked to him out of turning dwayne in and and and talked to dwayne and went and apologized

to the guy but like that kind of thing right there you know dwayne again says he was joking you know it's not jokes if you're intimidating people making people feel uncomfortable and she's saying racial things etc you know then on top of that my best friend and the one You know what? It's the showing thing that the one year that Dwayne was there was the only time we haven't had a team banquet, which is a tradition for five years. It's the one time because Dwayne, and I'll get into this in a second, had changed the contract and ended up getting paid almost double what we'd agreed to

because he started crying and talking about how he struggled his whole life, and he's not going to be struggling now and, like, begging the guys to give him more and, you know, using me as an example of somebody that's paid more, you know, giving my discretionary bonuses to the pot and, like, this and that. And so the guys are convinced to pay more. This is the first year where, I mean, we're getting all of our money taken by Duane. He's got a, he's selling peanut butter and his T-shirts and everything else at the front desk. He's charging people for privates. He's manipulating people into giving their discretionary bonuses, guys like Chris Holdworth, who's,

who's, you know, struggling, you know, just barely making, you know, making his way as a brand-new guy in the sport, like giving him guilt trips about giving his discretionary bonuses and just mooching money like a, like, I mean, like a leech, man. It's unbelievable. So he starts bullying my best friend who has helped build this team just out of the kindness of his heart and his wife. I get a call from my best friend's wife that says, I don't know what Dwayne's thing is.

I try to talk to him. He looked right at me. He wouldn't speak to me. And I said, I, I, I was like, really? That's strange. And I, so I, she said, yeah, and I tried to call him. He won't respond to my, calls. He won't respond to my text.

And, you know, he just, like, ignores me. And I'm like, and she's the one that actually hands him his check, right? So, which is the problem, apparently. Anybody that hands the money becomes the enemy. So I say, I say, okay, this is weird. So I asked Dwayne, I said,

I said, Dwayne, is there something wrong with so-and-so? And he just says, he says, yeah, I don't like her energy. And I'm like, you know, I said, I've never had anyone have an issue with her before. And, you know, so-and-so said that you won't even look her at the eyes. And she asked to, like, give you things and things like that. And he was like, I don't like her, I don't like her energy.

I'm not going to talk to her. And I said, oh, okay. Just left it at that, you know. So, I mean, this is all this stuff I'm talking about with bullying, man. It's taking and taking. I mean, you know, because you've read my book about my brother. If you've actually read my book. I don't know.

We'll see. What do you have to go there? I mean, really. How many times do I have to prove myself? Please, continue. Yeah. Anyway. Can I ask you this?

Can I ask you this? What was the straw that broke the camels back for you? What was the tipping point? What was the end? Was there something? Or was it a mix of everything? This is a very busy time for me, right? I had to go to the Philippines, Australia,

and I had to go to Philippines, Australia, and Dubai, all in a short period of time. And I had been absent a bunch. I had coached the ultimate fighter. I'd been doing a lot of different things. So I've been gone a bunch. So what starts happening is this. And I saw this happening, and I started giving these reports, et cetera.

And so Dwayne, so I told you the big inherent thing. So the first thing that Dwayne thinks was wrong was that I told him I would get him as sponsors and I didn't, which is completely a figment of his imagination. The second thing is this. Three months in, he changes the contract, which she refuses to sign, because he doesn't sign contract, which was all in his best favor anyways and comical, right? So there's two tipping points. There's one tipping point, which is when I realized that Dwayne is only in this for himself,

and he's not going to be part of the team. And then the second one, when I decided to talk about it right now, because you and I have talked about this before, and you agreed. I said, hey, I'm just going to take the high road. You know, it's kind of taking care of itself. He's gone in his own way. but the guy keeps needling and needling. So the first one was this.

So a week before I left to the Philippines for a media tour, Dwayne, and this is the second time he'd done this, Dwayne brings me in, there's five fights that I had in 13 months, and I had three submissions, one decision, and then one loss to brow, right? For the second time we fought. During that time, I had renegotiated a contract, and got bumped up considerably.

And so two of those fights, I didn't get a discretionary bonus. So, you know, so Duane doesn't, when you get a discretionary bonus, it just comes directly to you. So Duane, in his mind, starts getting this delusions that I'm lying to him about some discretionary bonuses. And so he said something to me before, hey, you're right. you know, you said that you said that we, that you were going to give me discretionary bonuses,

and I didn't know if you got one to the last fight. I said, no, I didn't get one to the last fight. I didn't get one to the last two fights. And I said, but, you know, you've trained this contract. You're getting almost double what you had, almost double what you had agreed to come here for because you gave the salary on top of a percentage of fight purses now, which instead of whichever was greater.

right? And the guys decided that. He was doing a good job at the time, and I said, you know, I'm always for guys getting compensated. I'm the one that overpays, and that's been traditionally how I've done it, and that's how I built this team, right? So I'm like, okay, if these guys want to agree to that, that's okay. We just have to make sure that we can meet the salary amount.

And so the week before I left, Dwayne brings me in, and he always asks me for business advice, like when I told them to stop promoting these smoking weed, for his coaching abilities and, like, to stop, you know, getting $250 to wear somebody's t-shirt and building his own brand. So this new thing is, like, he comes in, and I'd already had a couple issues with him because he had started now that he was getting some real notoriety, he was gone during the week. He wasn't working with anybody that, now that he was getting a percentage of purses,

he wasn't working with anybody that didn't have a big purse. So he's only working with me and T.J. and a couple of other guys on top of not working with the girls, et cetera. And then he was getting himself sponsors at this point and like basically pimping people out. He would get paid and he'd like take pictures of other people with his stuff. He'd like, hey, can you wear this shirt for me? And hey, can you do this and you can do that? So there's three different issues. So he brings me in and he says, hey, man, I wanted to ask you some business advice.

This is the first time I've had money in the bank. And I was like, oh, man, that's awesome, dude. I mean, this whole time with all these issues, we're still super cordial and he's thankful and I'm thankful, et cetera. So he brings me in, and this is a week before the split happens. And Chad was supposed to fight Jose Aldo this time for the title and then Aldo got injured to push it back. But so he comes in and he says, he says, I wanted to ask you about flipping houses. And I go, okay, cool. And then he says, you know, it's the first time I had money and I wanted to ask you about flipping house.

And I said, you know, to be honest, I've never really flipped a house. I've only bought them and held them. But, I mean, I know a little bit about it. If I were you, this is the best thing to do. You know, buy the worst house in the best neighborhood and do your due diligence. And he start talking. And he goes, and then he cuts me off. And he says, I think you're effing lying to me.

And I'm like, huh? He goes, I know you got bonuses. I know you got bonuses. I mean, you're lying to me. I've got bonuses for every single fight, blah, blah. And I'm like, it's like totally takes me off guard. and I'm like, whoa, like, what's going on here, man? He's like, I know you're lying to me.

I know you have bonuses. And I'm like, and, man, this guy, you know, has an unstable upbringing, which we've talked about. And I've tried to help him, you know, understand some things. And he's been a fighter for years. He's, you know, all these different things. He's basically conjured up in his head. I'm like, okay, well, how much do you think I got?

And he's like, ah, you know, at least $50,000 to $100,000. I'm like, okay, so you think I just, and you can ask Dana or Lorenzo, the guys, whoever cuts the check, you know, there's two fights that I didn't get bonuses for during that five-fight year. And I'm like, no. And so I call my manager with him there. And I say, hey, didn't tell him that Duane's in the room or anything. I said, hey, did I get any discretionary bonuses for the last few fights? And I'm like, no.

and then Duane's like, you know, whatever. And I go, okay, thanks, just checking. Hang up. Dwayne's like, I think you're lined me. I've gotten a bonus for every single fight I've ever had, blah, blah, this and that. I go, Gwen, I don't know what to tell you, bro. So he leaves to do a private. I get on the phone call and I'm like, you know, whatever.

I have to leave the next day at 3 o'clock. And I go to Dubai and I go to Australia. When I come back, I hear grumblings that Dwayne is opening his own gym. and so he's gone at this point he's been gone like you know he's getting paid a salary and then percentages to be there coaching at the gym and he's gone now all the time doing seminars he's leaving during the week and you've having people fill in he's not coaching the team anymore he's only you know picking the fruit that is finally blossomed right you know we've been building up his name and the team's been winning and all this stuff so he's doing seminars and got him experiences for his sponsors during the week when we need a coach right and so i want to talk to him about um um about not bullying people, about, you know, the things he's saying to the guys that are making them uncomfortable, the African-American guys, about not getting himself sponsors and making other people,

other people wear them and basically pimping them out and taking the money and, like, you know, making other people wear your stuff. And then being there during the week. When you're supposed to getting paid to be there during the week, Don't be going in seminars for a week at a time in this place and in that place when we need to be coached, you know. But then I heard through the great mind that he's open his own gym. I don't know whether he's doing it in Sacramento or what. So I said, I call him when he's out doing a seminar and I get back on a Wednesday.

And I say, Dwayne, when you get back, I need to talk to you, man. We need to talk about a couple different things. He goes, okay, okay, yeah. I said, when are you back? And he says, I'm back on this day. I said, okay, well, let's meet after practice. And so we go in and meet. And throughout our relationship, it's been really weird.

I told you, I played counselor for the guy. So, I mean, I feel like the guy cried to me all the time. He cried when he's sad. He's tried when he's happy. He talked about somebody to start crying, you know? And I'm like, it was like kind of a strange thing. So I come in and we have this meeting. I say, hey, Dwayne, remember we're just out of the meeting.

He said, oh, yeah, okay. So we go in the room. I said, I have a couple things I want to talk to you about, which was being there during the week, working with everyone and giving everyone intention, not just the guys that are getting paid and you know, stopping with the bullying

and I said, but first I just heard through the great mind and this is, I have this meeting, everyone else goes to eat. T.J., Joseph, you know, everyone goes to go eat and a lot of times we eat after practice together, we all go to Crateville or whatever

and just meet up. So they go, oh, I go, hey guys, I'm going to have this meeting, I'll meet you guys afterwards. Dr. Duane, I said, and he goes, he immediately starts crying. And he says, yes, I'm leaving. I'm opening my own gym. He goes, I, I, he goes, I knew I was going to do this the moment you didn't get me sponsors.

And it's like three months into our, our relationship. And I'm like, what? I'm like, Dwayne, I never told you I was going to get you a bunch of, of sponsors. He's like, no, no, no, I've always just wanted to do my own gym. I mean, that's not it. He's like crying at this point. And he's like, I said, well, when were you going to tell me this? So you're going to tell me that we had, that you were going to leave us? And he's like, well, and he didn't know how much I knew, right? So he starts fessing up about stuff. He's like, well, I had signed the lease in December, but I didn't realize he didn't understand about

leases and down payments and he was going to try to buy a place and that place didn't work out. So it would have been six months since he had tried to do his first gym and not tell me about it. And I'm like, you know, we got Chad up here who's going to fight for the world title. It makes sense that he's leaving all the time. He's only showing up for the day of a fight and doing a seminar on the day and then showing up at the arena. He's like doing all the media he can to promote his own business. And basically I'm sitting there going, you know, were you going to even tell me? Like if it's a heads up or anything, he's like, well, you know, you're going.

you know, I wanted to get a title under my belt first and then leave, and I'm like, well, you know, because Chad's about the fight. And I'm like, dude, really? Is that the case? So I'm like, I said, dude, you know, it would be nice if you'd keep me in the know about this kind of thing. And I'm like, I'm baffling. I go, all right, dude, I said, here's the deal.

You know, the fight's on schedule right now are Chad's fight, which ends on this date. And I think it was someone else's a fight that ends on that day. I said, that'll be, you know, you get two months. to finish up the coaching obligations and then you can do your thing but like I need to start looking for another coach because you're going to leave us high and dry and not tell us he's like okay okay

so then I go back and I go to meet the guys at lunch and I'm like dude I just found out that Dwayne is planning on leaving it makes sense that he's not you know never at the gym anymore and that he's only working with guys to pay him he's trying to do a financial raise so he can you know get enough money

to start his gym and he's been planning this for seven months. I'm like, and then T.J. goes, yeah, you know, T.J. was like in the know a little bit. He said, yeah, he's been trying to do that for like six months. He almost signed a lease and this and that. And, uh, and like basically I'm like, dude, I had no idea, you know. So I go back and I just put an ad out and I said, hey, I didn't mention Dwayne's name at all.

I said, looking for a new striking coach, um, looking for a new coach. And I said all the attributes of our team, we have. this person, this person, this person, this person, this person, and the person needs to be able to whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever. Right. So I go back and, and Dwayne, Dwayne, Dwayne, Dwayne's all upset, right? That, uh, that I, that basically put that out there. Because you got a call from you, I think.

You got a call from other people that are, that are saying, uh, hey, are you leaving Team out of a male like what's going on he's like you know how could you how could you you know tell people i said i didn't say anything all i says we're looking for a coach you know etc so then chad's fight gets put off and uh duane's plans fall through for his first building and so he asked me if he can stay around and and help coach in the next you know he the two months go by and his uh his building and his plan didn't go through because he's going to try to buy a building, but he didn't realize that he had to put this amount down and then, you know, the credit and like all these things.

He's like learning about business, right? And so he makes this thing. I said, dude, you're welcome to stay here because like I said, the whole thing has been dysfunctional, but we've pushed through it. And on top of that, I've never put any of this in the face of the guys because I don't want to mess with their mentality. You know, I never like, you know, put it in anybody's face because I'm just trying to keep things cordial on the team.

but so I'm like okay this is a you know this is the point where the the parts you know we have to split right and anyway I still am able

like keeping it all under wraps and not saying any of the problems that have happened etc and just like going around like you know continuing to let Dwayne you know be a a coach on the team and take credit for things and et cetera so then a year

and a half later, a week before I'm about to fight Frankie Edgar, and Dwayne had been slowly trying to, slowly try to break the team apart. He was, you know, once it was known that he was going to leave, he started kissing everybody's, but he's

promoting everybody. He's got, like, he's got guys promoted that are tough wrestlers and giving him, like, purple belts in their in their, like, whatever his karate or his kickboxing is. And, like, you know, on par with guys that are like season, season fighters and like, like most of the guys are just like, okay, see what's going on here.

He starts being real nice to everyone because he realizes like, okay, he's going to have to, his livelihood at this point, he's making money off of his affiliates now, which are like 10 or 12 deep, who I'm sure he's, you know, just milking for cash every which way. He's doing all these different things. So he starts kissing, kiss everyone's butt. Meanwhile, I'm traveling all over the world, you know, for my obligation. Abu Dhabi, et cetera, et cetera. And I come back in a year and a half later, I get a letter from Dwayne who refuses to come back

in our gym apparently because we had, you know, one of our top dogs asked him to come back and he said, no, I'm here trying to build my gym, et cetera. And I was still going to let him back in the gym. I'm like, you know what, I never put anything public. if Dwayne really wants to, you know, be cordial and it's a mentally stable thing for the guy, the guy who wants him to train him, then let's go ahead and let him do that, et cetera. So I'm still trying to be cordial. I'm not putting him on blast about any of these things I've had issues with.

And I get a frigging letter a week before my fight with Frankie Edgar from a lawyer who's a, his email was like kickboxer, Asian kickboxer 101. and it's like the most delusional, like, claim, basically saying he's going to sue the team. So Duane says he's going to sue our team, which is this. I was offered a contract, which I did not sign, but I obligated, I did my obligations and helped the team grow. And in turn, I helped, I grew as well. but, you know, I am going to ask that there was $100,000 in discretionary bonuses,

which is a figment of his imagination, which is hilarious, that is owed to Duane, and he feels like he's entitled to that contract. A contract which he changed because three months in, we agreed to pay him more. If he wanted to enforce that contract, he would owe me by $40,000. because he was overpaid, according to that contract. On top of that, he demands 5%, because that's what was in the contract, of a discretionary bonus, which didn't exist,

which was a figment of his imagination, and he calculates that to be $25,000. So this lawyer, he had to draw this up, says, I want to force this contract he didn't sign. The contract, which was changed three months in, he got paid double of. Then he thinks there's $100,000, which is a figment of his imagination.

He would like 5% of that, which is $25,000. I mean, do the math, Ariel, on $100,000 for 5%. And so I'm like, are you kidding me? This is a year after he's been gone, and I still haven't put him on blast for being a tyrant and a bully and everything else that he has been. I'm like, unbelievable. So, I mean, obviously my lawyer just sent a message that said,

we decline your allocation, your request. If you have any questions, please call, and I haven't heard anything from him until a week ago before he puts out his fake apology where he says that I had done him wrong

on the business side, which is complete bull. And the only reason he did that, and it's the only time I've heard of him, other than a lawyer's letter, was because one of the guys called and said, dude, you're trying to ruin our team. I don't want to.

work with you anymore. That's why he's done it. So here we are. That's the real story. Wow. And so, A, first off, I appreciate you coming on and talking about all of this. B, why now? You know, you said you held it on. We, you know, sometimes I would bother you and ask you about certain things. You didn't want to talk about it. Why do you want? Yeah, for the record, Ariel knew a bunch of stuff, and I mentioned that before, because he's, you know, he and I talk and he's asked me, and I told him but said, don't put anything out. So Ariel would need a little thing

because he knew information. What do you talk? And I just talked to you about that. Wow. And so here you are taking a shot at me. First off, I did not know about the lawsuit or him trying to sue or threatening to sue.

I did not. You said that I knew that. I did not know that. You may have forgotten who you told it to, but I just wanted to throw that out there. Not really, not really, you know, there's no real point. me trying to do that, but I just wanted to clear that up.

But what I want to ask is, why, why now? Why do you feel, clearly, I mean, you've been on almost an hour, and usually when you come on, it's very light, and we have a lot of fun, and I could tell you're fired up. I can't see you, but I could tell you're fired up, and it takes a lot to kind of lay, why now? Well, I'll tell you why now. So this guy has basically, I mean,

the most important thing about a fighter's mentality, and being successful is his self-belief. And Dwayne has gone out of his way, and this is what happened. My brother was in a cult. It altered his life forever. I understand about abusive relationships. I understand about, you know, pimps and hose, man.

This is the way it is. When you have somebody just trying to make people believe that you can't do things without them and create a dependency, that's unhealthy. And when he starts to become, public with saying ignorant things about my team, which has a bunch of future champions like Cody Garbrandt and Paige Van Zant and Andre Feely and Joseph Morales and Angelo Trevino. Some guys, Duane probably doesn't even know their names because they didn't pay them any money.

You know, that becomes offensive to me. On top of that, it's going to come out in this reality show. You're going to see because Connor picked up right away when Duane started making comments It's about no one's a champion on our team except for T.J. Who T.J. is a product of our team. T.J. is a product of this mentality. I've talked over and over with his father about it and his wife, T.J. himself, and he understands the process and was really actually very distraught when Dwayne refused to come back to the team to help coach him.

So T.J. is forced to, because he felt comfortable, go and spend a little time with Dwayne and spend time with our team, spent a little time with Dwayne, et cetera. and was basically in tears because Dwayne refused to be a giving coach and said, no, I'm building my own thing over here. It just becomes a position where this guy has been silenced too long. This guy's been a tyrant. He's only about himself and money. He's been a bully.

And I'm not going to let him bully me, you know. I'm not I'm not sitting here trying to get bullied by a guy that I've helped build up and done a lot of great things for. and the hard part is Duane is a bit delusional and he believes half this stuff I know because I've the same argument with him four or five times about something that

was not true and I'm like dude that did not happen you know that is not what happened you know so when he when it's first off going to come out on national television because Connor picked up that Duane and started talking a bunch of crap about our team and was like dude what's up with that and it ended up being

a confrontation on the show which you guys are going to see so that so that it comes up there. Then Dwayne and while he's coaching T.J. and Danny makes a comment to just slander our team.

Then on top of that, he does this an apology, which is basically just talking crap on me, and because he says the word apology doesn't make an apology, and he says a bunch of false things in his apology. So I'm like, dude, I try to let this guy just go and be on his way, but

dysfunction just finds this guy. It just finds this guy. And that's probably why, when I called him, he was the only person that had no house and no gym and was broke. Did he reach out to... Oh, go ahead. On top of that, this is ironic because, you know, Chad's fight got pushed back.

And Dwayne, as soon as I was out of the gym and I let him stay longer after the time I had originally allotted, he started manipulating the guys and, like I said, promoting everybody. I come back and everybody's got their belts promoted. Like guys that had no business, you know, know, getting promoted to, like, certain levels, et cetera.

He's, like, been kissing, even the, even the girls' butts. He's been, you know, been nicer to them and, like, all this different stuff. He ends up doing stuff for free like he used to never do before, like, giving free mint work and things like that. And he's trying to keep this relationship with his lifelines. That's how he makes money now, right? So, uh, when, when, uh, when, uh, Joseph had a fight, the last fight that Duane cornered him for, Dwayne called him and said, hey, man, I'm going to be out there anyways.

Don't even worry about paying me. I'll just corner you. And Joseph's like, all right, cool, because I never made beef with the guys in Dwayne because I don't like to get the heads of my guys. I want these guys to win, right? I don't want them dealing with drama in the gym. So Joseph goes out there. He didn't coach Joseph one day of that camp.

Then he goes out for the week for the first time ever. He goes out for a full week of media and everything else and does all the media, and then he corners Joseph. then for Chad against Aldo he didn't spend one day in Chad's camp on the fight for Aldo but he goes out to Brazil a week early and does all the PR for it

and does all the interviews for it and he didn't spend one day of Chad's camp in a two-month period helping Chad only the week of the fight and then he used to never show up to the week of the fight he only did that after he was out of the gym because he had to keep his name relevant right so you know it comes to a point where

okay the guy's using an ability using a position that I put him in. And I feel so bad because I put like a wolf in sheep's clothing, basically. And I put someone in a power position that was only about himself. And did we learn from him? Of course. We learned from every single coach we had. Was he the only coach that was his whole livelihood depended on it and understood

and got coached on how to build a brand off of it? Yes, the only one. Only about himself, man. And I hate to see it, and it's sickening to me. So let me ask you this. This is the big question that everyone is asking me right now, as you are recounting all of this. And it's the one that we've wondered for quite some time. Knowing all of this, if you've said all of this, how in the world can T.J. Dillshaw train with both Alpha Mail and Dwayne Ludwig?

How can the team coexist with that happening? Dude, I haven't even given Dwayne the time of day in conversation. and the real truth is TJ is my guy he's like my brother and TJ is a very competitive person if you know and I never

went to anyone and asked them not to do anything I've never said don't train with this for a don't show without it and I haven't made this this is going to be news to a lot of the guys

because guys like Joseph Benavita doesn't like drama doesn't want to hear it you know no one knows about this stuff right so I've done that myself because I don't it hasn't been something that that I need to uh that I need to make public

or anything else has been something that I'm going to let slide under but Dwayne the jealous ex-girlfriend is just needling and kneeling and kneeling I mean he's probably maybe he's you know that guy doesn't go out and train with him he loses money that's all the guy cares about you know and as far as as far as TJ goes I've had a talk with TJ I sat down with TJ and I talked to sat down with his father and his wife, and, you know, he shed some tears. He shared for the first time that, you know, he had asked Duane to come out and hold nits and stuff for him for his title fight, and Dwayne refused and that T.J. had, like, started bawling and, and, like, was, like,

pretty upset that he had given so much, you know, when T.J. was babysitting his kid. He was paying him extra money. He was doing all his videos. He was, like, you know, you know, then T. And T.J. was like that for Master Tong, too. T.J. Live with Master Tong. He'd give him rides to the casino. He'd give him extra cash. Like, T.J. knows how to bring the best out of his coaches, right? And they have a relationship. So I don't want anything, you know, to go back to what I said about the most important thing about being a champion is your mentality.

I don't want to break anybody's mentality or help hinder their mentality at all. And I don't give a crap about Dwayne. I just wish you'd leave it alone. It'd be fine. I mean, I'll be honest with you. we have a lot of coaches. There are guest coaches that come in from other places. I've had Phil Nersen. I've had, you know, Cody Nolove is working with Brandon Sixth Guns from New Mexico. We've got a lot of guest coaches in addition to the culture that we've built. It's not an issue.

That's not an issue. The issue now has become that Dwayne is realizing that he keeps putting his foot in his mouth and it's cutting a tie for him that's a good tie. Even with all the dysfunction, I would still allow him as long as he was not bullying people and he was not, you know, pimping out people getting sponsors and making them wear him, et cetera, you know, I'm still okay. Like, hey, if you serve your purpose, serve your purpose. And so in that, if he were really to apologize and say, hey, I apologize for something specific,

not just like, hey, if I did anything wrong, I apologize. Dude, great, dude. You know, I'm a guy that forgives and forgets. I've actually tried to let this guy slide out and still be apart, but he cannot handle it, man. It's unbelievable. Disfunction will find Dwayne Ludwig. In that interview with Fox Sports,

he said that he reached out to you in the last week or so. Yeah. What happened there, and did you actually speak to him? No. So this is what I find out. One of our guys, there's only one guy that has gone out to train with,

Duane, you know, as of late, he just told Dwayne, dude, Dwayne, I don't like what you're doing. I don't like how you're attacking the team. I don't like the things you're saying, and I'm not going to work with you. That prompted Dwayne to tell him, hey, I'm going to make this right. So apparently that's when Dwayne text me and says, hey, you're right, this is Dwayne, give me a call. Then I get a message from him and says, hey, buddy, this is Dwayne. I just want to talk to you a couple times, buddy, and clear some things up, bud, and give me a call like that. The only other time I had any interaction with the guy was when I was getting a paper served to me with delusional amounts of discretionary bonuses and miscalculations on percentages and enforcing a contract that wasn't signed that was changed.

I mean, I hope he does try to enforce a contract because he'll owe me a bunch of money. You know? So, did I talk to him? No, I didn't talk to him. And then I comes out with a fake apology the next day or two days later. And you're not interested in talking to him, at least right now.

Sure. I'll talk to him. Okay. But what if you guys have like a fine? Because who needs this kind of stress in their life, right? You said you tried to let it slide and these things keep coming up. I've been trying to let it slide for a year and a half.

The guy's like, I mean, Grant, I mean, when I brought the guy in, we have team meetings. We talk about mentality. We talk about thinking big. We talk about a bunch of tools for success. Dwayne came to that stuff. He talked to me about so many things in his life that were, you know, I was trying to help that guy out, man. And the money thing, I told him, I said, Dwayne, I've never had an issue with any one person in my whole life about money. And now I have an issue with you about money, about something that you can't prove that you just think is there?

Like, does that give you a sign? You know, like what's going on here? And on the other side, you know, you have an issue with money, you know? It's unbelievable. And I feel bad because actually I talked to one of the guys that went down there, you know, things started happening more and more. So one of the guys that went down there, and he said that Dwayne had done there. two teenagers that tried to quit his gym because they didn't have any money. And Dwayne wouldn't let him quit.

And I'm like, what do you mean he wouldn't let him quit? He said, he just wouldn't let him quit. He said, look, guys, you're not going to quit. You're going to find a way to get that and you're going to stay on board. And I'm like, BS. And they're like, no, serious. And he was laughing about it. I'm like, well, do the guys quit?

And they're like, no, I don't know what they did. They didn't quit, but they didn't have the money. And we said something to him and he said Dwayne was laughing about it. I'm like, dude, when does the self-serving stop, man. You know? I'm a guy, I just hate to see it. I just really do. And it's put TJ in a really weird

position. And here he is fighting for the championship of his life and he's got his brothers back home that are cheering for him and rooting for him. And he's got this guy who's self-serving, who's trying to convince people that, oh, he has a secret ingredient to why

why other people would win. But TJ's the only one that does the right things, which he thinks his train with him. Are you kidding me, dude? You know, when Dwayne came to our camp, I was the number one contender and former world champion of a long time.

Joseph had just come off of a tough loss of title fight as well. A big title contender fight. He's the number one contender in the world. Chad's the number one contender in the world. T.J. is in our gym the number

one contender in the world. And, you know, cornering me for a world championship. We've got Chris Holdup that just won the ultimate fighter show. We have the number one finish race in the entire UFC when he comes into our gym. And he's trying to convince people that they can't without him and he has some secret ingredient. He's trying to make people dependent on him, which is what cult members do, is which pimps do,

which abusive relationships do. Don't need anybody. Don't need him. You know what I mean? It's a sickening thing for him to come and say something like that. publicly and put TJ in an awkward position. TG had to go on national television and say, no, I don't believe what everything

Duane says. We have plenty of people who are champions at the gym, and my guys are awesome. He puts him in that position because DJ is getting hounded by people about the dumb things that his coach the thing. You know? It's unbelievable.

Do you think T.J. will continue training with Dwayne prior to the cruise fight and afterwards? Where do you think stand right now from from your perspective? You know, I talked to TJ before his last camp. We had a great talk, and I just told him, hey, look, dude, this is after Duane sent the fictional, delusional letter about trying to sue for things

that didn't exist, right, and things that weren't signed and, et cetera. I said, dude, this guy is, I don't know what his problem is, I said, I love that you have a good relationship with them, and I know, you know, how important it is for you to feel it your best. So I'm not saying what you do. I'm just letting you know that this is becoming an issue. I'm not going to say anything about it. But, you know, he's like, I know, man, he's putting me in a really hard spot

and, you know, this and that. And he's, you know, T.J., like I said, is switched back and forth, doing a little bit touching up things there and coming here, et cetera. So if he is going out there, he'll be going out there alone, unfortunately. And as far as my relationship with TJ, it's great. Wayne's his own dysfunctional thing. I'm not going to let dysfunction bring me down. I'm not going to let Dwayne Ludwig's hunger for money and attention and building his brand, which I feel sorry for the people who's, you know, who he's probably milking for every dime possible.

I'm not going to let that take away from something that I've built. I mean, TJ is a guy that I've known for a very long time. He's lived in my house. He's done everything that I've done. I've helped mention the guy. I'm not going to let that do the thing. And I'm glad that it's out in the air now. And the only reason things are out in the air is because Dwayne is a friggin

mess. And from your perspective, Benavides, Castillo, any of those other guys, they're not training there anymore? Well, no one's The only, Danny went out there his last camp. And

he's in a rough spot right now he's he's uh you know he had a tough loss which i thought he won his last fight but um no he's not going to be going out there joseph's not going to be going out there no no one's going out there as far as i know and if they wanted they could i don't care okay but uh just i mean the truth is out there but i mean here's the deal guys can go wherever they want that's one of the coolest things about our team is the cream rise of the cop we can go to any gym in the nation and and and and roll jujitsu or box or kickbox or do MMA and it's fine we don't have that closed door like secretive society man we're open now is is it going to be something that uh that tj does i mean

i don't know that's up to him i know he'll be with us as well but uh either way it's not it's not my thing my thing is dway let it go buddy dude find another way or whatever you got to do enough enough with, you know, biting another hand that feeds you and enough with the dysfunction, just go about your way and stay out of my life. I was actually going to ask you if you wanted to say something to him because I do believe that he is listening, but I guess that's the message right there, right? Yeah, and I'll say this. We're good.

If you're apologizing for bullying people and the things that I talked about today, which I don't if you are, because all you said was that you gave so much and were done raw on a business side of things, which is absolutely incorrect. If you're apologizing for something specific, then let's talk about that. What are you apologizing for? Because I'm an open guy, man. I'll accept your apology. I've let everything fly this happen. By the way, while we're talking about coaches here, where do things stand as far as your new coaching search? Because as it came out a couple months ago now, or maybe a month or so ago,

Martin Capman is soon leaving the team. Have you found a new coach? You know what you're going to do there? Well, we've got a lot of leadership on the team, and Justin Buckles has always been kind of a leader on the team and been a coach in a lot of ways as well. He stepped up big time. Along with Campman.

Campman has his own things going on with his family, et cetera, why he's leaving, but he's still here, and he'll be here and welcome back as much as he can for the remainder of our team. And he's still here helping as well. Fabio Prado. We've got a lot of guest coaches that come in and help hold Mitz, etc. So we're not hurting in any way, shape, or form.

I step in as a coach, and I actually really enjoy doing it. TJ enjoys doing it. Joseph enjoys doing it. So, you know, between Justin kind of stepping up in the head position and Martin being there as well and running classes, we're in a good position now, we're going to take our time, you know, and it's not necessarily, the only thing we need is we're a fighting team. So we have, everybody has fights coming up and they have their focus and now we've got superstars on every level. We've got, you know, Paige Vanzant who's on press tours and Cody that's going to Japan.

And, you know, I'm coaching the ultimate fighter and Lance is on the show with me. and, you know, all these different things. So we need somebody who's there whose whole focus is to make sure a good practice is run, and we have that covered, and we're going to continue to look for complimentary guys to come in and learn from, just like we learned from Duane.

Duane showed some great stuff, and we'll continue to use anything that we've learned from anybody. So it's not like a major rush on things, and we have a lot of coaches that are helping out. You know, we have Brandon Sixth Guns out of New Mexico that comes in on occasion and helps out. And, you know, we've got a lot of, lot of good stuff. We've got great leadership. So we're not hurting in that position. We're

not in any rush. I mean, it's more of the media, guys like you that are like making a big deal out of it. What? Come on now. Uriah? That's not fair. That's not fair. Not you necessarily. Other people. Well, you just said like me. You just said like me. Well, what do you do for a living? Well, I am the media, but hey, look, since, you know, we're here being... Would other media be like you? Well, yes, but you're saying, you're putting me in that basket. I do believe you reached out to me. to speak about this. So you... I did. Okay, so let's

let's be fair here. You know, hey, you know why, Ariel? Yeah. Because you're my boy. I know, and I appreciate that. And I had, and I had two other guys that called me for the story and I said, let me talk to my boy Ariel. Well, thank you. Do you feel... Ariel knows reporting. Do you feel like, like you've gone everything out? Is there anything else that you, you know, we've gone almost an hour and a half here, but

I appreciate the candor and I appreciate that you have come here to, you know, finally get this off your back. I know it must have been quite a weight on your shoulders, but do you feel like we missed anything that you wanted to go over anything or reiterate anything or clarify anything, anything at all? The floor is yours. You know, I just want to say and just remind everybody out there who's listening who may be in a position where somebody's trying to convince you that you can't without them,

that they're wrong. You know, this is a world where, you know, there's, you know, how many champions there are in this world and every single thing in MMA and soccer and ballerinas and you know whatever the world

has you know many champions there are all of them all of them have a self-belief and that's the most important thing so if anyone's ever trying to break down your self-belief and trying to make you feel like

you can't without them or that you're not good enough because somebody else just has a gift that's a bunch of BS man I was not the most gifted guy in the world. I, you know, I wasn't a state champion in high school wrestling. I wasn't a national champion in college.

I was a world champion in the UFC in the mixed martial arts in the WC and a top contender for the last however many years in the UFC. And guys that believe in themselves, Cody Garbrandt, Paige Van Zan, you know, these are some of the names that you're going to see rise at the top. These are people that believe in themselves, okay? And that's the thing that matters in this world. and whenever you have someone that's trying to break you down and try to make you believe that they have some secret ingredient

or secret move, BS, man. The only thing that's real is what you believe. That's what reality is. Your perception is reality. So I just like to encourage people to follow their hearts and don't let anybody hold you down. Well said. I think we will end it on that note.

I will say that, and I've told you this before, you're a special kind of guy because people like me, you know, we try to find out about the TJ thing and, you know, the title loss here and all that. And you really, I mean, I remember, and I'll say it again on this show, I talked about it when it happened. Right after the second brow loss, right, you were talking about TJ in the cage, in the cage. So when I hear you talking about your teammates and wanting to uplift them and believing in yourself, I do feel like that's very authentic, and it comes from a very good place. And as captain of the team, I would imagine you take this stuff very personally,

as you should. You are the captain. You are the face of that team. And I feel that. You guys that are going to hear of that have been with me since they're 10-11 years old, a guy like Joseph Morales and Angelo Trevino. Those are two guys that have been with me since they're little kids that are going to be world champions. And, you know, like you said about T.J. there's nothing that gives me more joy than seeing my guys succeed. You know, it's one thing to do it yourself.

It's another thing to see you guys succeed. And I did, you know, after the first, this is a good, good little ending thing also. After the first time I lost the Brawl, T.J. was in my corner, and I saw what T.J. was doing in practice. This was before Dwayne was there anything. T.J. was a beast in the room. And I knew that he was a great matchup for Brow. And so right after that fight, the week after, I sat down with T.

I said, look, dude, you're going to be up next for that title. You're going to get it before I am. him, right? Just be prepared and be mentally ready for that because it's going to happen. Because T.J. was our guy, man. He's our guy that we've been building up, right? And then I went into Dana's office after my loss. And I talked to him about the time T.J. first came into Spar and he was bleeding through his

nose and screaming at the world. Like, is that all you got? You know, getting beat up, but asking for more. And I pitched him giving T.J. that title shot, right? On top of after I said it to the public. right that that was something that was true so i mean you know there's there's there's a lot of that people want to forget about the way things are uh because you know media forms things etc but this is this this this sport to me is bigger than winning and losing it's bigger than

than what i've done in my career this is a family that i've built this is a lifestyle i built this is a you know this is these are my people you know what i mean so um to see someone come in and just take a big dump all over it, like someone that's all about themselves is just, it's just heartbreaking. Hey, last thing you're right, I just want to end on this. Do you regret ever getting into business with Dwayne? I don't like to have regrets, but yes. Okay.

I think that says it all. Thank you so much, man. I really appreciate it. I can't thank you enough. I'm glad that you came to me. I'm glad we had you on the show. I'm glad we had a lot of time to talk here and that you were the last guest of the day because I didn't want to shortchange you. Appreciate it greatly.

Some other time, perhaps in the near future, we can have you on to talk about tough and Frankie Science and all that stuff. But for now, we've run out of time. So thank you, Uriah. Appreciate it greatly and we'll talk to you soon. You got it, brother. All right, there he is, the California kid going 80 minutes or so, 70 minutes or so. talking about his history with Dwayne Ludwig. And just to reiterate, you know, that article, that interview with Eliy Sapeda,

Fox Sports.com does a great job. Came out Friday afternoon. Dwayne, if you can find it, just Google Dwayne Ludwig, it will come up, issued this apology. And shortly thereafter, I heard from Yeraya who reached out to me and said he wanted to come on to clear the air. from his perspective, once and for all. And I think that's what happened here today. So we thank him greatly. And hopefully I think at the end, they can talk, they can meet up. And as I once asked, Rampage at UFC 130, squash it once or for all, and everyone can move on and have great careers, be positive, and just forget about all of this. But we'll leave it at that for now. Okay, so we've gone over. We have eight minutes left.

in the program? No, New York, Rick. What are you doing? Get on. I'm here. We have seven minutes left. Oh, people are calling in. It's chaos back there. Thank you for giving me an extra few minutes. Anything you want to say about that? There is literally nothing I have to say about that. Your Honor if Aber said everything. Let's rapid fire. Okay. Guidelines. Can you try to, you know the questions. Summize them. Yeah, yeah. Just say. What's the point of having these guidelines for the NSAC if they're not going to stick to them? You know, that's something I asked, or I failed to ask Lucas about, and the one that drives me nuts, maybe more so than anything, four months ago, they said, if you fail for cannabis, third time, you get three years. Where the hell does five years come from? Because he was so disrespectful that he would, you know, take the Fifth Amendment, what? So that's a whole other issue. and they're not defying their own rules.

What's the point? I agree. Andy Foster, quote unquote, sensible and forward thinking. Would it be possible for other commissions to disregard the Nevada suspension? Great question as well. Why does everyone have to listen to Nevada? Nevada is going to break their own rules and show this kind of bias. Why does California, New Jersey, and Florida and Tennessee, and I can understand the UFC, you know, it's in their backyard and they have a good relationship,

fine overseas when they're the commission fine but why does montreal or excuse me Quebec or Ontario or British why do they have to let why does it have to be you know Nevada and I'll be all and we have to do what they say now I understand you he's the promoter but why why why does it have to be that way again as I said on Thursday I do believe there should be a national governing body not state by state United States governing body that focuses on mixed martial arts because I think that would clear up a lot of these issues issues state by state.

Ariel, you said that we need to go away from the fight past hearings. This person is making the case that they're the only way we can, you know, watch these and hold people accountable. What do you have to say about that? It's a good point. What I meant by that was, you know, I can see, you can watch it and you can see that they're playing up to the cameras and they're acting very cocky. they have these huge egos and they're they're they're breaking their own rules and they're they're

not governing fairly they're so then my my question in return to that would be do you think they would not be acting this way if the cameras were not on do you think that he would have been suspended less this is the first you know this isn't the first time that you can actually tune into a commission even before five pass you can call in there are other ways to cover these you could also go there in person but now that it has become this thing this reality show if you will I think it has pumped up their egos. They have massive heads, and you could see the way they're behaving and the jokes and the little quips here and there. So that's why I say, you know what, enough of these people. If we're going to broadcast Nevada, let's broadcast all of them, for

God's sakes, but we can't. I get it. It's cheap to do there. It's in Nevada. I don't want anything to do with it. I understand why transparency. It's good to watch. It's good to lay all the cards out, but I do believe that they are flexing for the cameras. And as a result, that could be, be leading to bad things for these fighters. I think it could also be what ultimately is the downfall of their position. So maybe it's good. Let's put that spotlight right on them. Yeah, okay, fine.

That's my position. Fair enough. Okay. Ronda Rousey speaking out in defense of Nick D.S. Any thoughts on that? It was fantastic. It was unbelievable. You see, once Rhonda spoke about it, it got on ESPN, all these papers, all these big media

outlets we're talking. Rhonda is a gigantic star. She is the biggest star in the sport. There's no doubt about it. at this point. She is transcendent. It's huge. But will she take that next step? You know, someone asked her at the Q&A about Nevada and Dana jumped in. And again, I get it. I don't think that the UFC needs to battle Nevada. But I do think that as the promoter and the owner of the organization, it is in their best interest to sometimes stick up for their guys. So what Ronda did

was amazing, especially considering the fact that no one even asked her about it. She spoke up herself. Where does she go from here? Her talking about it is good enough. But like in many situations, you can always do more. What are your thoughts on Fado assigning to fight in Japan? Wow. I don't know if we have enough time about that one. I'll say that look, I was holding out hope that he would finally fight in the UFC because that's the one last thing that we haven't seen him do. And there are so many great matchups for him. No one can argue that. Even if you hate the UFC, you can't argue that that's where the best are fighting right now, especially in that division. So I was holding out hope. I wanted to see that happen. I wanted to see that

happen at least once before it's all said and done. Not all that surprised. After I saw Jerry Millen there and given his relationship with Saki Kabara and, you know, how he is treated and his history in Japan, it's not surprising. But, you know, there's a lot, you know, there's a lot to unpack there. I mean, a tape delayed fight, New Year's Eve, what does that really do? You know, we don't know about the checkbook. We don't know about how much, you know, it's just, it's, honestly, my reaction was ho-hum. So the second part of this is actually, you know, To the first thing that you mentioned, does this kill off any hope that he would ever fight in the UFC? Do you think that these two fights and then no UFC or is it possible to go there after?

What do you think about that? I think this was it. And I hope I'm wrong, but this was the best chance. I think this was it. This is 2009 Yaronoka. Like, what, we've been there done that. Who's he going to fight? Randy Couture?

Yeah, it's cool. I'll watch. Trust me. I'll watch. I just, I wanted to see Fador a part of the UFC. once and for all to see what he could do, to see that site, it just would have been great. And unfortunately, we're not going to get it. But look, it's great for that new organization.

It's great for Japan. So that's why I'm like, eh, six in one half dozen than the other. I get why he did it. I get why they wanted him. I get why Spike wants him. Selfishly, I just wanted to see that happen. I don't hate the guy. Do what you got to do, man.

Be comfortable. Get your money. Do what you got to do. But selfishly, I wanted to see that vision. question the morale of here? Who might he fight on New Year's Eve? I'm putting my eggs in the Randy Couture basket. I don't think it's Kimbo. Look, we have to remember it. We have to remember this. This is not a Bellator show, right? This is Sakhi Kabara show. And Belator fighters will be on the card, but he's paying Fedor.

You think Scott Coker's going to take Kimbo out of the live Bellator show and put him in Japan on tape delay? I don't see that happening. Could, but if you're asking me right here and now on September I'll bet on Randy. That's it. That's it. Yeah, so Nick Diaz, we'll talk more about that. I wanted to talk a little bit more, but we ran out of time. I'm sorry, I know a lot of you love the questions.

I love the questions. I love talking to New York, Rick, but we went along with Uriah. Don't worry, we will talk much more about Nick Diaz, probably a lot more about Fador as well on Thursday's MMA beat. Congratulations to Liam McGee on his big win, and congratulations also to Phil Davis. What a night it was for him. Looked like a superstar, and it was good to see.

Also, congratulations to Josh Thompson and Kerry Melendez, Gilbert Melendez's wife on their debut wins for the brand. I know Carrie was fighting for Glory, but it was really Belletor. And we didn't even get into all that, which I wanted to talk to New York, Rick, about just how Glory was sort of misrepresented. We spoke about it a little bit with Luke, but I wanted to talk about that a little more. Also, congratulations to Justin Gachie.

A very nice win for him and David Branch as well. And yeah, Chil Sunnan, great debut for WSUF as a broadcaster. All right, we have run out of time. What a show. What a way to come back. You can hit my music. I guess you were waiting for that. I'm sorry.

Thanks for letting me go a little longer. Something about Mondays here, my friends. Magic happens. and it was good to be back. And guess what? We're back next Monday. And the Monday after that, and after that, and after that, and after that. UFC back in Japan on Saturday.

Very excited about that. Co-main event, by the way, Gagar Musassi versus Uriah Hall. Very big fight for Uriah. Not his last chance at greatness or anything crazy like that, but this is a big step up for him, so I'm curious about that. It feels like we talked to Henry Sehudo five hours ago. It was a three-and-half hours ago. Great stuff for him.

from him. I applaud him. I appreciate his efforts. Curse to see where things go from here. Thank you very much to him for the time. Thank you very much to Luke Thomas. Great stuff as always. All the best to Josh Barnett. Appreciate him stopping by today. Thank you very much to Eddie Alvarez. Great stuff once again. I'm Eddie. Appreciate Michael Keyes's time. Good luck to him on December 10th. Thank you very much to Lucas Middlebrook, the attorney for one Nick Diaz. Very good stuff out of him. And once again, Again, thank you very much to your eye favor for his time. Daniel Cormier is calling me right now.

He's coming up. Houston, October 3rd, UFC 192. We'll talk about that next week on the program. But again, don't forget about Nick Diaz. A lot of things are going to happen between now and next week and the week after that, what happened to Nick Diaz last week, regardless of what you think of him was a crime and we got to fix it. More to come. If you missed anything, iTunes, Stitcher, SoundCloud,

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