MMA Fighting - The MMA Hour with Ariel Helwani - Episode 306

Episode Date: November 23, 2015

Ariel Helwani speaks to Kimbo Slice, Michael Bisping, Brian Stann, Ben Askren, Rafael Cordeiro, Shannon Knapp, 'Punkass,' and Geoff Grammer. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hogan, everyone. I'm Mario Hawani inside our New York City studio. It's good to be back. It's good to see all of you. I don't actually see you, but I feel your presence in my life. And my, oh my, did I miss you? I guess off the top, I owe you all an apology because two weeks ago was our last show. end of that show, I said that we would be off the following Monday due to my travels back home

from Melbourne, Australia, and I said that there would be a special Wednesday show. As you know by now, if you are a regular viewer, listener of the show, there was no Wednesday show. And usually, other than the two times that my incredible sons were born, beautiful baby boys, I've never missed a show that I said I was going to do. You've always known in advance. But last week, that wasn't the case. I told you that'd be a Wednesday show and we had to cancel it. And I know a lot of you were mad. How could you miss the show after UFC193? How could you miss the show after Holly Holmes shocking win over Ronda Rousey? How could you miss the show after the biggest event in UFC history? The head kick knockout heard around the world. We need your show.

to digest this all. And I got to be honest with you, I needed this show to digest it all. I was sitting on my couch on Saturday trying to watch the UFC in Monterey. And I had a very hard time. I said this on Twitter. I wasn't ready to move on from Holly Home. I wasn't ready to put that in the rearview mirror. I wasn't mentally, spiritually, emotionally ready to start thinking about Diego Sanchez at 145 or Neil Magny taking a fight on short notice. or Henry Sohudo's chance to fight for the belt. I just wasn't ready. And it kind of hit me afterwards.

I needed the show to digest it all. I needed that outlet. And so I understand where you all are coming from. And look, I'm a loyal podcast viewer, listener myself, different sports, different forms of entertainment. And I rely on those podcasts to take things in, to make sense of things, to kind of like, you know, Oh, okay, now it all makes sense. Okay, now I can move on from this, you know, to digest it all. And I left you hanging.

And I'm sorry, it killed me. No one was more upset about me missing last week, especially. It wasn't a ho-hum event. It was historic. Look what's happened since. It's unbelievable. No one was more mad about that than me. Trust me.

No one felt more guilty about that than me. And I'm typically a guy who feels pretty guilty about things. No one was more upset, sad. remorseful than me. Trust me. Trust me. And I got all your messages, and it made me feel good that I was missed. So I appreciate all of that.

And again, I'm sorry for missing a last week's show. I will make it up to you. I will explain why we missed last week's show later on in this program, because we got things to talk about here. But there's a good reason for it. There's a very valid reason. And as I've told you time and again, don't doubt me. And you've seen some things that I was doing last week.

I got a tour of the new Jackson Wink Gym by Mike Wink. Uncle John, that was a lot of fun, especially being there. You know, just days after Holly Holmes win in Albuquerque, I put out a video yesterday. We put out a video yesterday. One of my favorites in a long time, spoke to many of Holly Holmes teammates about what the win meant for not only them, but to the team and the city. Beautiful stuff. Made me tear up watching it. Casey, EKC, our videographer slash editor.

nailed it. I mean, it was just beautiful, everything about it. Very proud to have been there and put something like that out, and we don't often get that opportunity. But that's not why I miss the show. There's a reason, and we'll talk about that later. For now, let's make sense of it all. Let's digest it. Let's finally put 193 to bed. I need it. I need to do this. So let's go. What are we talking about on today's show? Well, of course, in the third hour, we'll hear from you. Hit us up using the hashtag the MMA hour or leave a question or comment in the comment section below. As always, want to hear from you. Want you to help me make sense of what we saw in Melbourne, Australia. At 325, we're going to talk to Michael Bisping. He's got a new show on Sirius XM, and he's obviously looking for a fight in probably London in February. So Michael Bisping will stop by at 325-305. Invicta FC's Shannon Knapp will stop by to make an announcement

about an upcoming event. Some buzz about what's next for Invicta. She'll come on to announce it all. 245. We're going to talk to Kimbo Slice and his longtime manager and friend Mike Inber. Kimbo, of course, facing Data 5,000 February in Houston, Texas. 225, we're going to talk to Punkass of Tapout fame about the new mask documentary and also the business of MMA. I'm very, very interested to hear from Mr. Punkass.

And at 205, we're going to talk to Ben Ascran. a very strange weekend, a couple of weekends ago in Singapore. Prior to his title fight, we'll talk to him at 205. 145. We're going to talk to the head coach over at King's M.MA. Hafeel Cordero. Master, Hafeel Cordero. 125, we're going to talk to Jeff Grammer, not a household name, but a reporter for the Albuquerque Journal. I am fascinated by the local angle here.

As far as Holly is concerned, she is such a big deal. We don't understand just how big of a deal she is. So Jeff Grammer is going to stop by to break it all down for us. But first, let us go to the sky machine, a guy who knows a thing or two about Albuquerque and just how big Holly Home is. One of the greatest minds in the sport today did a fantastic job calling the action on Saturday in Monterey. There he is the one and only Brian Stan. Brian, how are you? I'm doing well.

How are you? I'm doing great. And I appreciate the time. I know you're very busy, especially coming back from Mexico. So thank you for a few minutes here. You know, I said at the top, you know, I was having a hard time watching the action in Monterey only because I wasn't ready. to move on from Holly home. I wasn't, it's like the Super Bowl happening

and then there's another big game the following week. I needed some more time to digest it all. I know you were working, you're a professional, you're the ultimate pro, but did you kind of feel the same way? No, you know, I didn't feel the same way. I mean, you know, for me, when I see an event of that magnitude,

you know, I obviously wish I was one calling it. I wish I was there caged side. So, you know, I'm anxious to get back in there. And, you know, for me, from my perspective, when you connect with some of these really young, inexperienced fighters with the backgrounds of some of these young men that came off that Latin America series, they are so hungry. And it's such a big deal to them that it's really exciting to you, to me, as an analyst, to talk to them and to see how much it matters to them and to hear from them, how much this whole thing changes their world. You know how far the dollar goes in Peru for Enrique Barzola, you know, and what it does. If you watch the footage from his home with his wife and some of these kids' lives,

it's pretty cool to even be a small part of that and be able to speak to them to the fans and hopefully gain them some new fans. So it was cool for me. I know I have a different perspective than some of the fans who maybe expect to watch more experienced martial artists. But for me, that's another exciting side of it. This is why I love you, Brian, because that was the perfect dancer. 100% right. It's not fair to those guys to take away anything from them, and that was a big deal for a lot of those guys. And this is what I love about MMA, quite frankly, this is what I always

tell people about the uniqueness of the sport, especially from a journalist perspective. You can have an event every single week for 52 straight weeks, and one event has nothing to do with the other. It's not like game 62 of the regular season and the NBA between the Bucks and the sixers. That really means nothing in the grand scheme of things. On Saturday night, for those tough fighters, for Henry Sohudo, for Neil Magny, you know, for Diego Sanchez, that was the world. was their world title fight in front of 56,000. So you nailed it, 100%. It was. And, you know, I wish the hardest part for me is when I speak to these fighters, I speak to their coaches and I kind of get inside their minds, I wish there was more time for me to tell the people about that, you know,

what really matters most of them in this particular fight. Because we only show the walkouts on fight pass. We only show the walkouts for the main event. That steals all my time to say that. Because there are other walkouts. I'm still speaking with John Anick about those storylines, but that's only seen on the DVD and sometimes on Fight Pass after the fact. And unless it's a slow fight, I don't really get to get to those things. I have to stick the tactics and what's playing out there. And I don't know if all the fans care or not, but that's one of the things I wish I could get out. Because ultimately, it has nothing to do with me or John or, you know, the UFC company or the brand or what's next.

And it is all to do with those two athletes at that moment right there and in trying to build the storyline and get them fans and tell people what they're trying to accomplish there. So I hope and always wish that for each fight, I could try and sneak some of that stuff in there. Yeah. Well, you do a fantastic job. Let me ask you three questions about Saturday in Monterey. First things first. Did Kelvin Gaslam deserve to win that main event or did he deserve at least a draw? I believe Neil Magny deserved to win that fight.

I had, and now, when I'm calling fights, I am not scoring them. So if I could look at back at that fight and actually watch it as a judge. And when I do watch the judge, I put categories on a sheet of paper and I fill them out as the fight goes. But I had felt at the end of round three, like Neil Magny was up, three rounds to none. Round four was very close to being a 10-8 round. In my mind, I didn't think it was because it's not boxing where it's only the striking realm. there's more to the fight there is some grappling

involved you know magni did land some shots in that round as well so I thought that was still a 10-9 round but I thought it was a very very close fight and like I said in the broadcast at the end which most people probably weren't watched anymore I wouldn't want to be the welterweight who fights

Kelvin Gasselm in a year he's very young he finally understands how to cut the weight and cut the weight well you know he's never shown a problem with cardio but he's never gone five rounds like that. And even the corner, Neil Magny told me after the fight, we expected to win the last three rounds, not the first three. You know, so Kelvin showed that he has more weapons than just athleticism and power. And he's still learning how to fight going backwards. He's still learning how to

get inside of reach. He's going to figure all that stuff out. He's going to be an animal. At the same time, Magny's going to continue to improve. But this is not a fight where you say, okay, you know, Gasolm's never going to contend for the title. No, I think he will. And I think this was a really, a really good fight for him where he's at in his career to continue him taking steps towards being more of a professional. Is it in Diego Sanchez's best interest to continue fighting at 145 pounds? You know, from what I saw when he was weighing in, I would say no. He's, you know, he's a very determined guy and he did all of his own weight cut, did it all

himself, and he's worked with other people before, but he was a bit stubborn. you know, I think his toughness is why he was able to cut that weight, not necessarily his process, but I don't know enough to say that definitively. I think he could fight in a lot of weight classes and put on exciting fights, but, you know, the fact remains he has still been in a lot of wars, and I enjoy every single fight he's in. So just a ton of credit to him, but I think it would be healthier for him to fight at 155. Should Henry Suhudo get the next crack at Demetrius Johnson

and Part B, what kind of a shot do you give him? Yes, he should, and I actually give him a very good shot. And here's why. Okay. From what I know about Henry Sehudo, he is a guy, and he's proven this in one of the biggest, if not the biggest stage, right? 2008, he wasn't supposed to win that tournament. He wasn't supposed to win goal. And when you talk to people close to that situation, he had the tournament of his life.

He is an athlete that I think rises to his competition and does what he needs to win. win in competition according to that athlete. So I think when he fights Demetrius Johnson, it will be a better fight than people think it will. Is he on the level of Demetrius Johnson right now? No, he's not. But he can be. And just like Holly Holmes showed, you know, you never know what kind of junk these special athletes can make when the lights shine brightest. Holly has proven to be an athlete several times in her career who shines brightest when the stage is the largest. And Henry Suhudo has done the same. He's an exceptional athlete. And, you know, my good friend who you've come to know well, George Lockhart said it best because he talked to Henry a little bit after his weight cut to give him some advice because Henry's weight cut, that process is terrible.

And he explained it like this. He said, Henry's always been the guy that runs the mile the fastest. Even though his process to get to wait to run that mile is not good, he's never had to change it. He could eat what he wants. He could be undisciplined because he still has the fastest mile time. But what he doesn't understand is how much faster he'd run that mile if he would improve his process. and make it better. So it'll be really interesting. And, you know, he had said he had George do his reload after he cut the weight. He had said, you know what, this is the best I've ever felt after cutting the weight this fast.

I need to use you my whole camp. We'll see if he does that. It could give him an edge. But he wasn't tired in that three rounds for a guy who had a miserable, miserable way to cut. I'm happy you made that connection with Holly home because that's another major thing I obviously want to talk to you about. You know Holly quite well. you are obviously a part of that team Jackson Wink camp for a very long time.

When did you first meet her? How long ago? So I first met her in 2008. When I first started training, the first time I ever went down to Jackson, Winkle Johns. And the closest friend I had in the team then was Joey Vio Signore. And he was in a serious relationship with Holly at the time. And so they opened their home to me. and for, I'd say, three or four of my first training camps down there,

I would stay there for several weeks instead of staying in the gym, in the dormitories above the gym. And so got to know her quite well during that time, and then obviously the several years after that I had trained there. And look, you keep hearing it from everybody that knows her. She's a very special and unique person. High character, high octane. She's a workhorse.

You know, at that time, she'd wake up early in the morning, go teaching aerobics class, go to the gym and train, go back and work somewhere. You come back to the house, she'd redo her cabinets and go back to the gym and train, then go back to work and do this. And, I mean, she's just nonstop. She's all business. If she says, hey, I will meet you tomorrow at 1 p.m. And we'll move your apartment to another apartment.

She's going to meet you there 10 minutes early. She's going to move every piece of furniture until the job's done, no matter how long it takes. And then she's going to go right back and go get her training session in. I mean, she's, and she'll do it all with a smile on her face. And that's what makes her unique. And it's incredible because on the same weekend that we had these major attacks in Paris, and you get really depressed and it starts to make me really think negatively just about humanity in general, then you see something great, which we rarely do in this world,

but you see something great happen to a great person. A lot of times we see great things happen to okay people. Sometimes great things happen to bad people. But with Holly, a great thing happened to a great person. person and it was not luck. She deserves it. She's worked for this. And it was inspiring. It certainly was. I had the pleasure of being at the gym last week. I would say the word Holly, the name Holly, massive smile comes on every single person's face. And you could tell they're being genuine. They're not just saying this because the cameras are on. I even talk to some kids at the schools.

They're all like, Holly Home, Holly Home. Do you know Holly Home? They love her. And I think John Dodson said it best, said if we could send someone to outer space to just show like what the best of humanity is, we should send Holly because she's a physical specimen. She's a great person, great heart. It's amazing to see all this come out now. But I want to ask you this, truthfully, I know hindsight is 2020. Yes. Did you believe in your heart that she could do it?

And not just do it, do it like that. To my everlasting shame, though. And honest to God, I felt guilty that I didn't. But the thing is, and I've had this come up with a lot of fighters. And I'll get hit sometimes on social media and from fans for this. But when you are an analyst, at least in my eyes, you have to evaluate film and you have to go based on what you've seen to make your predictions and base your judgment. And when I analyze the tape, I certainly felt, and I said this in

interviews and my breakdowns, there was definitely a way she could win. And if there is a person who could catch Rhonda and defeat her, if she's not focused, it was Holly. And so I definitely saw her being able to win a fight that I thought would potentially go the distance. I did not see her winning the fight in that manner. And part of me feels guilty because I do think so highly of her because I do have a relationship with her. But I mean that it makes it all the more specially. And I remember when I said on UFC tonight and I got made fun of a lot by some of the people

there and even people online. But I said when they talked about her coming to UFC, I said if there was a woman I've met that I want my daughters to be like it's Holly. I mean, she has a lot of qualities. I already told my daughter it's all about the fight. I mean, she is absolutely every bit a role model you want, not just for women, but for any person. And I truly mean that. From your perspective, what was Ronda's undoing?

Was she too cocky in this fight? Did she fight the wrong fight? Is it the camp, in your opinion, from what you've seen? Did it just get too big for her? What do you pin this on? Can you pin it on anything? You know, I think you have to pin it on a lot of things. I mean, first and foremost, you know, it is not.

never about who the best fighter is. It's about who fights best at that moment. And there's a lot of things that go into that. And I know this as well as anybody because focus is a huge factor in fighting. There are fighters who are part-time fighters. Whether they train full-time or not, they're not as dedicated as they should be. And in many cases for me, I was a part-time fighter, you know, running a company and I had a lot of different things I had to be interested in. And so there were performances where I knew I wasn't focused enough. And so when you look at the lead-up for Rhonda, you had the situation with Travis Brown goes public and she's got to deal with that. And, you know, look, when you make that kind of money, you're going to get that kind of attention.

Then you have her mom doing that interview, which is a massive distraction, right, about her coach at that time. Then you have her coach deciding to file bankruptcy two weeks before the fight. Massive distraction. So that's a lot of things on her mind. Ultimately, when you watch the fight play out, she did what she always does. does. You know, she, she is a fighter who's very used to winning in the first round. And being a guy who won a lot of fights in the first round, all of a sudden when that's not happening, it triggers different things upstairs and it messes with your confidence, you know? And when you're that amped up, you could be in great shape. But when you're in that octagon, if you do not control

your emotions, you will get gassed out. I don't care. What kind of shape you're in? You will gas out quickly. And I saw panic when things weren't working. Every time she tried to close a distance, Holly either separated, effectively, avoided takedowns, or she hit her, and sometimes both. And you could see there was no plan B there. There was no plan B. And as technical as some fighters look on pads, it doesn't always translate into their effectiveness in the octagon in doing it live. It doesn't mean they're not capable of it, but in that moment, there looks like there was some panic. There was a lack of confidence.

And every time Holly started landing those straight lefts and pivoting and angling off, you could see the doubt grew and grew and grew. One thing I did know about Holly that I saw, because I was at Gregg's when she was just dabbling in MMA, she was always very, very strong. Now, she wasn't throwing around female athletes the caliber of Ronda, but she was throwing around every woman in there that knew more about MMA than her. She was always a strong woman, and she was always extremely athletic.

And I didn't know how that would translate to the level of athlete that Ronda is, and obviously it translated very, very well. Would it be a mammoth mistake for Ronda Rousey to fight Holly Home next? Does she need a buffer? Does she need a fighter too to figure things out, get her mojo back? In my opinion, yes. I think it would be better for her. You want to fight the biggest fights in your career when you are in a rhythm,

you have confidence, things are going well with your support network, your trainers, everything around you and you're in that right moment, which for Holly was that time. She's got a great strong family around her. She's got a whole community in Albuquerque around her, coaching staff and teammates focused on her. Rhonda's life is more complicated because she's been such a, I mean, the biggest star we've ever seen in the sport for some time now.

Yeah. And that's more difficult, you know. So if I'm her trainer, I know it's not the best move financially. I know it's not what the organization wants, but I would want that. I would want her to work out some kinks and prepare a little bit more for what people think now can defeat her and go into that fight where she's hung up.

hungry, she's focused. Now, I may say all that, and Rhonda could be sitting back in her house right now watching tape, already thinking about training and knowing what she's going to do. And if she's got that kind of hunger and ready to go, then I would say, yeah, fight her again. You know, nobody really knows, you know, where she's at right now other than her and the people around her, and I certainly don't. But if from my bird's eye view, if I'm her trainer, I would rather that. I'd rather her go kick somebody's butt and walk in to fight Holly with her confidence, with her swagger. One of the byproducts of Ronda's success is the fact that mainstream media starts covering the

sport when they usually don't, and they're all weighing in and giving their sort of uninformed takes. And I saw a lot of people who I respect who cover other sports saying, ah, the UFC is done, that's it. She got knocked out, and they don't understand the way it goes. A loss in this sport, in my opinion, doesn't mean as much as it does in boxing or any other sport. They come back and look at Randy Couture, BJ Penn. They all have double-digit losses.

But do you think right now for the UFC, considering who she is, you called her the biggest star, I agree, she's on the cover of the video game and all that stuff. Was this a bad night for the UFC in the short term? Like, yes, that night they did well, gatewise, attendance-wise, all that stuff. But is this a problem for the UFC, or do you view it on the flip side? You just created a new star. She's everywhere. She's great with the media.

She's great with the fans. It will all work out once the rematch happens. What do you think? I think it will all end up working out. I mean, but you ask me in the short term, is this bad? You know, when you look at it this quickly snapshot? Yeah, it's not, I wouldn't say it's horrible, but it's going to be. bad for, you know, hey, the biggest pay-per-view draw you had, just lost. And she, in the rematch,

she's going to draw incredibly well. But it could hurt them in the long, or in the short run, which is, you know, the next six to eight months. Over a span of time, absolutely not. I mean, you've got, Holly, I think, is certainly potential to capture the hearts of America and in other massive markets worldwide. And I think she will, if given the right opportunity, and promoted correctly and and I think Rhonda will hold people's attention is now because people like a comeback story. You know, if you want to hate on her now, but one good interview, one good sit down where she talks about everything she's been through her life and all of a sudden, every back on her side and in her corner. And I think we're fine. And I'm telling you right now, there are athletes,

male and female in gyms right now training that we don't know about. You know, when you see a woman like Rhonda making the money she's made, there are Olympic caliber athletes. And that said, you know what, I don't want to do this anymore. I'm going to go do that. There are the stars of tomorrow. I mean, when I go to countries like Mexico and Brazil and all over, especially in Brazil, there are athletes at every corner. I run the beach there in Rio, and it's incredible what you see.

I mean, there are prospective guys like Henan Brown, Jose Aldo, and those type of athletes. They're there. You talk, I talk to some soccer coaches, professional soccer, and they were telling me the hotbed of athleticism that's there. So there are other athletes, and there are other athletes. and there are other stars that are out there, they'll come. You can't, in America and just media today's society, you know, worldwide, we love to panic about things like that. You mentioned the hate news, of course.

You mentioned the hate that she received, and a lot of people were put off by it. It was disgusting. It was, it just felt dirty. And I agree. But I will say that a lot of people are not really realizing why they feel this way. Even like the loudest critics, the loudest haters, that to me proves that Ronda Rousey was a, brilliant saleswoman. The fact that she made you feel this way,

no one is up in arms over Kelvin Gasolm's loss because he's just kind of there. But they feel this way, and those are the same people who will pay $60 to see the comeback fight, the rematch fight, regardless of who she's fighting. I want to know what you make of the vitriol that she has received, because that's my silver lining on all of it because it really wasn't warranted,

but that just reminded me, wow, Ronda Rousey is such a big star that she made all these fans care so much about her That's actually a good thing. She did her job. Yeah, I agree 100%. I do. She should be very, very proud of what she's accomplished in such a short period of time.

And what she has done not only for herself, for a sport, for a generation of female athletes. And you're absolutely right. The hatred she's received is attributed to the star and the brand she was able to build. And I would say 95% of the people that are saying all this stuff about her, had they met her, If they meet her in person, have one conversation, we'll turn around and say, you know what, totally different than what I thought it was. You know, the most time we see fighters,

it's the week of a fight when they're cutting weight and they're focused on defeating someone. And it's a different mindset you have to get yourself in. It's very similar to a combat mindset. So, you know, but that's people, right? We are, humanity is a jealous people. We always get jealous of people who can do things we can't. And so we've got to tear them down

to make us feel better about ourselves. And look, you know, she knows how to play a character and play a role. So when you play the heel, I think she's got to come to expect some of this. But deep inside her, she should take the opinions of the people that she truly cares about and that care about her and be proud of everything she's done. And success isn't easy to deal with, just like failure isn't easy to deal with. You get measured in both ways and, you know, she'll grow as a person from all of this and we'll see what comes out the other end.

But people forget it. I remember. So she'll be oldest in a couple months. Okay, let's end on this. If they fight again in the next four, five, six months, if it's UFC 200, it'll be a gigantic fight. Who's Brian Stan picking in the rematch? Holly Holm.

Very, very hard to get the kind of beating Rhonda took that night out of your head. And once a fighter who once thought they were invincible, now realizes they aren't, that's a lot of doubt. And doubt is, is, is a first step towards frustration when you're trying to execute, and frustration is the killer of all athletes. And Holly's confidence is higher. She knows what to do, and she has an incredible support network around her to make sure that she stays humble. She stays focused. She has everything she needs to go out there and perform to the level that she just did. And I think she's really

hard to beat in that short of term. Tremendous, as always. I needed you to kick off this show to to help me make sense of it all, Brian. So thank you so much for the time. I really appreciate it again. Great work on Saturday. Looking forward to working with you later on in December. Absolutely, buddy. I appreciate it.

Thank you. There is. Brian Stan. I mean, what more can you say? Just great analysis. Calm, cool, level-headed. Doesn't get too crazy like, you know, some of us in the media and too passionate.

Just great stuff there. From a guy who knows, Holly, and I truly respect that, you know, he will admit. Again, unlike others, that, yeah, I got it wrong. We all got it wrong. We all got it wrong. And that's okay. And that's the beauty of mixed martial arts.

We could sit here and debate Sarah GSP, Dillishabarrow, this fight, and there are a bunch as well. Biggest upsets in UFC history. And all those fights happen within, you know, the last 10 years. How many upsets can you talk about on the biggest stage possible for the championship in basketball or, baseball. I mean, I could talk to you about Villanova beating Georgetown. That was 30 years ago. There's NC State also over, there's

a lot, but they don't happen in that short amount of time. So it teaches you that we know crap, we don't know anything. The odds makers, for the most part, you know, they don't really know what the hell they're talking about either. Look at those odds. They'll get it right from time to time. But this sport is so young so new, we all missed it. And in hindsight,

you just look, and I'll sort of break down my thoughts of the actual fight later on. But how did we missed this one. And that's not, you know, that's not taking anything away from Holly or Rhonda. Rhonda Rousie is the biggest star in the sport today still is. Still is. And the fact that we care so much, the fact that we reacted, the way we reacted, the fact that this is one of the biggest paperfews ever is all because of her. And by the way, the fact that we're even talking about this is because of her. Like I said in that essay, there would be no women's MMA in the UFC,

if not for Ronda Rousey. They'd be no Holly home if not for Ronda Rousey in the UFC. Holly probably wouldn't even have tried to go on this long journey after leaving boxing if there wasn't an end goal of being UFC champion. There wouldn't be any of these people. They'd be fighting on smaller shows. It's all because of her. So if you hate her or reveling in her demise, dancing on her grave, remember that. You don't have to be her biggest fan, but just remember that.

All right, let's move along. And like I said at the top of the show, I am fascinated by the local angle in all of this because I had the privilege and pleasure of being in Albuquerque last week, just days removed from UFC193. And it really, I mean, I wouldn't have had this perspective if I was just, you know, back in New York. It really hit me that Holly Home is a gigantic star there. The little kids know who she is.

Young, young boys and girls look up to Holly Home. They all know. The soccer moms know her. Everyone knows her. This is bigger than John Jones winning or Carlos Condon. Carlos Konda got a day when he won the interim belt. She got a month from the city of Albuquerque. So I needed to get that local perspective.

I'd like to welcome one of the best who covers MMA from Albuquerque. He works for and writes for the Albuquerque Journal. His name is Jeff Grammer. He's joining us now on the phone. Jeff, are you there? I'm here. Thank you very much for the time, sir. It's great to have you on.

And like I said, I'm so interested in this because I've never seen, quite frankly. I mean, I'm from Montreal, and I know GSP, it's different. It's really different. The way people talk about her, the way people look up to her, the way people were so happy because Albuquerque doesn't have. have any sports teams. This sort of thing doesn't happen. And I understand that was a very big night in Albuquerque sports, not just because of Holly Home. Can you tell us your perspective? How did you take it all in? What was the reaction around you? How did you feel? I'm just so fascinated by it.

Yeah, obviously, Albuquerque is a fight town. It's been known from boxing primarily through the years. It's a fight town. People have house parties that are legendary here watching Johnny Tapia through the years on pay-per-views and stuff like that. So we love our fighting here in Albuquerque especially and really all around New Mexico, but Holly was, Holly was the fighter that she's from here. She went to Manzano High School here. They're going to hang a banner in her high school after this win last week. And you don't see that very often. It wasn't that she did MMA when she was there at Monzano, but they're going to hang a purple banner for Holly there at her high school. And she came up through the Albuquerque ranks.

Almost all of her professional boxing fights were here in Albuquerque. So she was bringing world championship level women's boxing to Albuquerque. And it wasn't just that she was from here going other places to fight. Her and her promoter, Lenny, who I know you've gotten to know through the past couple years, Lenny made sure that he was bringing top-level women's boxing here because of Holly home, and people just fell in love with her. And as you've gotten to know her, and I did see the video that you did with their teammates there at Jackson, you know, it's one thing for people to talk about a teammate or to talk

about somebody from their hometown and saying, oh, yeah, we support that guy, we support that girl and great person, this and that. You do get a different sense when you talk to people here that know Holly. It's genuine with Holly. There isn't anything fake about that. It's almost to the point of aggravating sometime how nice a person this is. She doesn't ever talk trash. She doesn't ever really slip up along those lines, and it just makes you always want to try and be a little bit better. That's what people fell in love with with Holly through the years. And when she left boxing, there were some people

upset with it. There were fight fans here that wanted her to stay in boxing, but she didn't leave boxing for MMA. She left boxing for Ronda Rouse. From day one, that was the reason she went to MMA. What was the reaction to this fight being made? A lot of us in the

MA media thought, ah, you know, she could be the one, but maybe it's a little too soon. You know, her two first fights in the UFC weren't all that, you know, impressive a lot of people criticized it for the last fight, she didn't show any killer instinct. Were people in Albuquerque, her most loyal supporters who have been watching her forever,

thinking that she was about to get annihilated in Melbourne, or was there a groundswell of support for saying that we're about to shock the world? A little, well, it'd be, over the last 10 days, I don't know if I've run into anybody who didn't say, I told you, and if you had asked me about 15 days ago, there was a very large percentage of even Albuquerque and even the staunchest Holly home support.

that were worried for her and not predicting her to win. Our reader comments section on the Albuquerque Journal's website and letters to the editor, people writing in and local sports talk radio, there wasn't a whole lot of people giving her a chance, even here in Albuquerque. And at times it was interesting because there was genuine concern, you know. They didn't want her to go get embarrassed because of where they held her on this pedestal. They held her. But, yeah, in hindsight, I think a lot of people said, yeah, we saw that coming,

but there weren't a lot of people that were going out of their way to predict that it was actually going to happen. And in the days leading up to it, after you saw what happened, you know, at the Wayans, and it was just building and building and building. What was the local interest in this fight? Was this from page news? As I was told in Australia, obviously, I couldn't really check in on it. I guess I could have checked on the internet. But, like, was this the Super Bowl happening for you guys over there? How was it being covered?

Yeah, pretty much. It was A1 of the Albuquerque Journal. I think both days before the fight, the Friday and the Saturday. We had a Holly home presence on the front page of the news section, not just the sports section, and obviously a bunch of features of the week building up leading into it in the sports section as well. The day after, it was so late that the story wasn't on A1, the day after the wind, but across the top above our masthead, where it says Albuquerque Journal. It was a picture of Holly holding the bell, and it said, happy holiday. On the sports front, it said, hallelujah, and it was a full page devoted.

probably 90% to Holly beating Rhonda. And in the days after, I was able to talk to her the morning after she woke up. And I just asked her, I said, well, what do you, what are you thinking when you woke up this morning? And she said, I just, you know, I just did that. I couldn't believe I did it. That story had some of the best traffic on our website in quite some time. So, yeah, people, you know, it's not just, we're putting it on the paper, nobody's consuming it. They're consuming anything and everything.

We can write about Holly right now. people are eating up. And even the UFC, who's been sort of, you know, obviously they have bigger fish to fry with this. Holly's been on this world media tour, New York, L.A. She hasn't even been back to Albuquerque yet. UFC took the time that they bought a full-page ad in our paper, full-page color ad, congratulating Holly. And they've recognized through the years what Albuquerque, especially in a per capita sense, obviously we don't have the population of some of the bigger cities.

But from a per capita sense, Albuquerque has always supported pay-per-views with UFC. and they had a fight night here, and it did very well. So UFC's recognized that there's not a lot of hometowns. In the UFC, it's a sport that travels around the world and has events all around the world. But there's almost like a hometown team that supports so many of these fighters at Jackson, but Holly in particular because she's one of them from here, Carlos, to a lesser extent. He's from here. But nobody really has that feeling about the fighters quite like they do with Holly.

But there's so many fighters here that it almost seems like they're treating Albuquerque like a hometown. So you've been there for a long time. You've been covering the sport. You're originally from Albuquerque, right? I was born in Santa Fe, about an hour north of here, but yeah, New Mexico. I asked Tully this question in the moment, and it's almost impossible for her to really give us an honest take. I want to ask you, because you're an expert. Was this the biggest moment in Albuquerque sports history?

Yeah, I think it was. From a lot of angles. Obviously, not even in Albuquerque, I say it's a fight town, and it does have a great history of fights and fight support here. But not everyone's a fight fan, no matter where you go. This transcended all of that. Everybody was interested. There was, you know, every bar that could have it.

There were local cafes and coffee shops that were paying for the pay-per-view. There were obviously still the house parties I talked about. You know, the Johnny Toppe, Daniel Romero history, where people will just get families together of 20 or 30 people and have parties at the house. That was still going on last Saturday. But every business that could get this pay-per-view got it. even the Albuquerque Convention Center got it, and they've never gotten the fight before. So a lot of first-time businesses were buying this pay-per-view, and none of them regret it, to my knowledge.

They were all sold out, standing room-only-type venues. So, yeah, this was big. Everybody watched it. I think from a business standpoint, the T-shirts that are selling at any local shop that can sell them have been selling them like crazy. So the next thing on the list now is people who want Holly home. They want her to come back. Yeah. Do this parade.

And the city council has already voted. You know, the month of November is Holly Home Month now in Albuquerque. And they're going to set up a parade when she gets back. So you mentioned also that her high school is going to hang this banner in her honor. So tell us from what you know, how is she going to be greeted? Are they going to be at the airport like we see like when, you know, like the Golden State Warriors won the title, the fans at the airport? There's going to be an actual parade. What can you tell us about the kind of reception that she will get?

Well, wherever she goes, in the weeks building up, it was interesting. I want to step back real quick. The conference call that UFC had for this fight, the one Rhonda Rousey hung up on when she was asked a personal question about her personal life. For the next 45 minutes, Holly Holme answered questions about how Rhonda said she couldn't handle the champion lifestyle. It was interesting on a call that she hung up about a personal call. But in that conference call, Holly talked about pressure and nobody thought she had the pressure. But she said growing up in Albuquerque and the support I have here, people walk up to me on the street and hug me daily. That's pressure.

She had a personal type of pressure, maybe not the worldwide attention that Rhonda had, but she had a whole town that not only liked her and supported her, but the type of people that walk up to her and hug her, wish her well, pray for her, all that kind of stuff. She had that on her mind. And when she comes back, it's going to be tenfold. And there is a different kind of pressure when you not just have the support of a community, but you have a whole community that is taking that much of an interest in you and an association with you. They've bought into Holly Home being the hometown hero here.

And when she gets back, if she goes to a school event, I think parents are probably going to find time to cut away from work to go see their kid at school that day so they can see her. If she goes to a football game, I know they're going to try and get her to the bowl game they have here in December. I think people are going to go just to see Holly home, and anything they can get with Holly right now, they're going to do it. So, yeah, there'll be a parade. I think she'll have a welcoming at the airport. Whenever she gets there, that'll have probably a couple thousand people at least there. It's going to be big, and this town needed it, frankly.

And can you speak to that? Because I had heard from people that the last couple of weeks in Albuquerque were particularly depressing, I believe. A longtime police officer was killed. A young boy or girl, I can't remember. which one, and I'm sorry for that, passed away. What was the mood, especially concerning the people leading up to this, and how did she help change things? There, obviously, in the grand scheme, it seems she made people feel better.

She didn't change anything that had happened, obviously. And there's still some very serious issues that need to be addressed in Albuquerque. There's a trust issue going on right now with law enforcement, tons of great law enforcement officers here in Albuquerque. But there had been a stretch of a few years where there were, there were a trust of a few years where there were a lot of law enforcement involved shooting. There's an issue with that going on right now, and there was a road rage incident about,

I think it's been about a month now where a guy gets out of his car to argue with the driver of another vehicle, shoots at that vehicle, and a four-year-old girl died. That same day, basically, a longtime officer, Daniel Webster, was shot in the line of duty. Just stuff that really cares of the community,

stuff that really damages the psyche of a community and the support that came out for that little girl, Lily, was the girl who was killed. You know, people came out and supported that girl in the aftermath of that event like you've never seen. People came out and supported Officer Webster and all law enforcement like you just don't see in a whole lot of places. There's a whole community here in Albuquerque

that has a chip on her shoulder kind of mentality that people overlook us. But when it comes to one of our own, there's a ton of love. that's what Holly kind of represented. And when she pulled off, not just a win, but as you know, as everyone knows at this point,

it wasn't just a win. It was a dominating win. It wasn't any lucky kind of sucker punch. She showed everybody that, you know, she belonged in, not only did she belong in there, but she deserves to be the champion. And it really goes back to what,

you know, one of her coaches said a couple weeks ago about Albuquerque is, you know, maybe if we were this big fancy gym out of California or New York, people would give us a lot more respect, but that's not us. That's never been us. We're just from Albuquerque, but people always know who we are when we leave.

And I think that's what pretty much Holly and Wink and Greg Jackson showed in Izzy, too. They got a good team over there at Jackson's at Jackson Wink, and they got another good gym here at FITNHB. There's some people here that have this chip on your shoulder mentality, but there's also a lot of love surrounding it, and that's sort of what Holly brought out that night. Are there any concerns that, A, Holly will change now that she's become this, you know, worldwide superstar, and that B, her life will change. Does she have to move away?

Does she have to go to a gated community if that exists? Are there any concerns about either of those two issues? The concerns about her changing are only from people that don't know her. I don't think you'd have those concerns with just about anybody. I think people that have gotten to know Holly through the year to realize it's not an act. It's not fake. She's pretty genuine. As far as her life changing to the point where she might have to be.

to get out of Albuquerque or a beast moved to a part of town, like a gated community or something like that. You know, those are things that will be presented over the next few weeks, a few months, probably. Yeah, there's probably some concern about that. I do know, I mean, frankly, there's some frustration here in Albuquerque that all this celebration we're doing. She hasn't come back yet because she's been on a media tour since. She's been running her through.

So she hasn't been back yet. People want their hero back. So there's a little bit of frustration to that, and we'll see how that plays out. but I don't think anyone's going to turn on Holly because of it. I think they might get frustrated with the star she becomes a little bit, but I don't think it'll be a personal kind of frustration with Holly kind of factor. And just curious, because you know the landscape, can Albuquerque host a Holly Home title fight?

Is there that kind of infrastructure? I threw out the pit, and you corrected me that this was on Twitter, that they just couldn't do it. Is it possible? Can you foresee a scenario in which Holly gets to come back to Albuquerque? because I could see, I mean, if it's possible, like 100,000 people showing up to that. Yeah, the reality is that win probably, Holly's probably outgrown Albuquerque in that regard. I don't think Albuquerque, nor else in the state of New Mexico, would be able to host a Holly home fight at this point because there's so much interest.

The pit itself, which is, you know, for 49 straight years, has been top 25 in home attendance for college basketball. It's a great venue. But structurally, it can't support the lifestyle. that the UFC needs. They did a fight night here in 2014. They had to go to a downtown arena called Team League Coliseum, which is really old. You can't really see it on TV as well because all the attention is focused on the octagon in the middle.

But basically, that's an old arena that couldn't support something the magnitude that Holly has become just in the last 10 days. So I don't think Holly home will probably ever fight in Albuquerque again. But that said, there's a lot of good fighters here. if she just makes an appearance of the fight night type event, I think the UFC, they've told me Dave Schultes told me he wants to get back here in 2016. Holly just showing up would probably tack the place. And there's a lot of other fighters here that have a support and have a following too.

So yeah, the UFC will be back in Albuquerque, but I do think Holly Holmes probably pretty much outgrown Albuquerque in terms of fighting. Last question, I'll ask you the same question I just asked Brian Stan. If you're Ronda Rousey, is it a mistake to do the immediate rematch from your perspective? Probably, but I don't know what else Rhonda from her stature. I don't know who else she fights that from a stature kind of standpoint wouldn't sort of look like she's taking a big hit. I mean, fans want the fight. Fans want the rematch.

If Rhonda fought anybody else, it would be a curiosity thing. They want to see how much she comes back, obviously. how quickly she can come back from that from that loss. But I think from like UFC standpoint, I don't think they want anything other than that rematch at this point because the flip side of that too is who does Holly fight in the meantime. I just think the interest right now is give Rhonda a chance at her rematch. That's what Holly had when she suffered her worst beating and boxing to Anne Sophie Matisse.

She got a rematch later in one. Holly wants to give her the rematch. They both want it and the UFC wants it. I think that's what you do. Fantastic stuff, Jeff. Really appreciate the insight. And I hope people will start to realize now just how big of a deal this is for the 505 and for the entire state of New Mexico. And hopefully if she does fight in Las Vegas next, we can say hello in person.

Because I think the Albuquerque, why weren't there any local Albuquerque journalists at the... Is it just too far? I was asking Lenny about that. You're telling me. Believe me, the request was put in. Okay. I don't doubt it. Hopefully, if it's closer to home, we can meet in person.

but really appreciate the time. Great work, as always, and really enjoy your coverage. I looked at it all afterwards, and it was just fantastic stuff. So thank you again, and congrats to the city. Okay, thanks for having me on. This has been great. My pleasure. There he is.

Jeff Grammer of the Albuquerque Journal, giving us the local perspective on just what Holly Holmes win means to Albuquerque, a beautiful story. And, again, the beauty of sports. It doesn't take away what happened in that city. and I know from talking a lot of people there tough times, but for a second, this is what sports are all about. For a second, it's an escape valve

and it allows you to jump up and down and act like a crazy person and just love everything, cheer for something bigger than you, cheer with a group of people that you don't know. That's the beauty of sports. That's what I always tell people. If you don't understand what it means

to be a crazy sports fan, it's just to give us something else to think about, just to give us something to cheer about. And for a lot of people around the world, Holly Home gave them that. in particular in our home state. Let's move along. Let's welcome in one of the very best in the game.

You can make a case that he is once again the coach of the year. He is killing it all over the place, doing a fantastic job. He is the head coach over at King's MMA. He is Master. Hafeel Cordero. He joins us right now on the phone. Master, are you there?

Yes, hey, how's every team, but it's always a pleasure. The pleasure is all mine. Thank you for the time. You were in Mexico with Kelvin on Saturday. Do you think he did enough to win that fight? I think the first three rounds was for our opponent. He just woke up in the second last round. I believe he just was a good fight.

It was a good fight. But I believe the difference between the size, the tall, he's really tall. Magnus is tough, man. It's hard to fight against somebody tall than you. And it was great. I can't complain. He did a great job. I look forward to see maybe this rematch one day.

I don't know, but this is what I'm looking for. And of course, I know, I know Kelvin has a great, we had a great game playing, but unfortunately, our opponents too, so everything works perfect for him. I certainly think that Kelvin has nothing to be ashamed of because, I mean, a lot of people were concerned about the weight cut and also seeing him do what he did in the fourth and fifth rounds.

That means that he was in great shape. He had great cardio. He was able to go into the championship rounds. What, from your perspective, was the difference this time around? I know you're relatively new to Kelvin and, you know, just everything that he brings to the table, but why was he able to look so good and fight so well despite the loss? Yeah, so in the gym, this is my first camp with him. He spent two months with us over here in the Kings and Army.

And, Jim, he did a great job here, you know, and he proved a lot his car, his cut weight was perfect. And I believe it was the night from the... challenge, you know, and the challenge put a great fight. I believe in the future, with more time, we can improve more and more and more his game. For sure, if you ask me how long, maybe for the next fight, I think he will put a great show next fight. We have more times to work with him, develop his game, and we can put our game over him. For now, what's great, but we can do a great job in the future. This is what I believe. Let's switch gears here for a second. Halfel Dosandios, your champion, the man who will be defending his belt in December against Donald Serroney.

He recently told David St. Martin of our site, MMAFighting.com, that he welcomes Ronda Rousey to the camp, to King's MMA. And this might raise some eyebrows because we thought that Chris Cyborg is a part of the camp. But I understand she is no longer a part of the camp. Is that accurate? Yeah, you know, Chris, she trained with me a long time ago. Since I moved to United States, eight years ago, she came with me. He worked with me maybe for six months, and then she's back to Brazil, and then he back again. But I don't have more, I don't train her anymore.

And for sure, if you wonder one day, you want to spend time with us over here, no problem. If the fighter came here with good mind, open mind to learn, no problem. It's hard for me to say something about Ronda because he has her own coach. I respect to him. as a coach. If I have for me say, come training here, Honda. Not just for her, for her, but for all kinds of fighters,

going to come and train and spend time with us, and the Kings is more than welcome. No problem at all. Everybody comes here with open mind, for sure you're going to help. No problem. And I respect that you, it would be disrespectful for you to step on toes, especially when she currently has a head coach

and one who specializes in striking. Yeah, because... Go ahead. Because one day, I have my own fighters, and I know when we talk about fighters, you have to respect. I respect this coach. I believe she, you know, she beat all those fighters still now. I think people have to respect her, no just because she lost this fight.

She now is a trash. No, she did a, she does a great job inside the UFC, inside sport. I can't tell my daughter. She's a big fan. She's a big fan. Today my daughter wants to fight because of Honda. So she put a great thing, not just for the women's, but for the kids, too. A lot of kids, so they watch the show because of Honda.

So she did a great job inside the fight and I respect her camp. But if one day she wants to spend some time in the King's Nemea, she's more than welcome. With all respect, she's more than welcome. Why did you part ways with Cyborg? Say again, please. Why did you no longer train Cyborg? No, I think that the way I train, the way we, our connection is no more the same.

I respect to her as a fighter, but our connection is no more the same. I believe she is still one of the toughest fighter in the world. I believe cyborx, she's, you know. Nothing changed what I believe she can do inside the martial wars. And I believe she can be the greatest, the greatest of all the time. This is what I believe. But the way I train, the way I see things, maybe it's all the same way she does.

But I still with same respect, but we don't longer more with no connection. I don't have more connection with her, but we show the best for her. When did you split? A long time ago. Long time ago. As soon as I moved shootbox, and I opened my own gym, KingsenameA, but she still is shootbox. Right. And for her last camp, she spent a couple of times with me in the gym.

I did maybe less than five class with her. I just hold meat for her for her last fight, maybe five, six times. That's it. I have connection with my fight. She never represents King's Army. She represents her old school. And I have my fighters, and I can say these guys can kill her die for me. But Cyborg was just a fighter.

It came here, and she paid me to hold meat for her. Okay. As a private class. I did a private class for her. That's it. But no, just professional things. know about emotions, just professionally. Based on what you know

about both of them, who do you think wins? Ronda or Cyborg in a fight? Depends. Everything depends. I think today, if you ask me, I can say Chris. If you ask me, I believe it to put both fights today, Chris has better kickboxing than Honda, and I believe

Chris can beat Honda for sure. I still, nothing changed what I think about Chris as a fight. She's still one of the best, if not the best fighting in the world. And this is what I believe. But it can be a third to fight in the future. Let's see. But I believe, and today, Chris, she's the best fighting in the war.

And, you know, given your expertise, you're so good at, you know, you're amazing. At the striking part of the game, of course, that's your background. Based on what you saw out of Ronda in the Holly home fight, do you believe that there are problems there? just not doing things the right way? Round up? Yeah. She's been criticized for her striking. Yeah, I think the way she fought,

one more time, it's not to respect. Sure. Sure. I want to be a man and not respect. You've had for me talk about somebody for another game. But when you have a belt, when you have a championship in her hands,

you can run straight your opponent as a craze. You can do this anymore. So I think the way she ran against the hauling was a little bit. She anticipates what she wants to do. Sometimes you have to hide what you want to do inside the fight. I think it was a little bit more calm, a little bit more calm, a little bit more confident. She has to change her game a little bit. As my opinion, as an MMA fan, I expect for run the throw push and try grab.

I think me and all over the world wait for the same team. punch and find for short distance and then grab it. I think she has to change a little bit, a little bit more than because people start understanding her game. It's going to start fighting against her. It's going to start with some boundaries against her. I think she has to change a little bit. And, but if she can mix a little bit more between punch, kicks, knees, take down,

defense, things like that, going to make different. She can start the fight and run against the opponent like that because people start to understand her game. We're going to start playing against her. So Holly, she did a great job to stop Honda with punch in the beginning, control the distance. As soon as she finds her distance, she put her in problems, you know. And I think she has to do it. She have to change her mind about going straight all the time. The sport today, you can do this anymore.

Go straight. Start the fight, go straight. Go straight. Unfortunately, today you can do this anymore. I'll put you on the spot again. Holly Holie Holm versus Chris Seiburg. Who do you pick? Good fight.

I believe this fight's going to be an amazing fight. Chris is going to fight against somebody's softball, against somebody with a little bit more rich, a little bit more rich than her. And it's going to be good fight. I think the fight going close distance. Chris can knock her out but I believe if the chance

keep the distance I think she can you know make five rounds in a distance you know I think she can she can take care about that I think in short distance Chris can knock her out but in long distance she can play five rounds

with no problem I've seen Vandrelay Silva at the gym these days does he still want to fight I know he retire but he's got to issues and maybe it's going to turn around for him very soon. Do you think he still wants to fight? No, I think he don't want to fight anymore. I think you want to stay out for a while, just seminars all over the war. I think his, you know, I think his career done, he don't want to fight anymore. Okay. And how about the, go ahead, sorry.

This is my opinion. I don't know the future, but to be honest with you, what I look when they lay now is I look at the guy who wants to spread the world and spread the world in the about martial warts and I think this is what they're looking for now. Hafeld Dosayno was very active on his way to getting the lightweight title, but he's taken a break. By the time he fights again next month, it will be nine months off since his last fight. Any concerns that, you know, at least in the first round,

he might be a little rusty? No, he trained hard for this fight at least five months for this fight. It's just finished his train now in a gym. And he's so excited for this. I think it was a great moment for it. Eight months out was great for him because he fought a lot last year and he fought a lot in 2013. So I think it was a great time to rest, to recover his body. His knee was no 100% before.

Now his knee, his body is 100%. He doesn't have one injury for this fight. And I believe he's going to be a great fight again. His mentally is prepared for this moment. You know, he's doing all his life for this moment. Now he has the belt. He wants to take care of his belt. I believe he's going to put wars for all those challenges now.

This is what I believe. Have you been watching their first fight from a couple of years ago a lot leading up to this one? Or do you think that Soroni is a different fighter? Dosangos is a different fighter. What's your perspective as you prepare for a rematch as opposed to fighting Soroni for the first time? We still with Sam and Palis. I shank all day. Every day what half did run the first fight to try you know fix you know

You change the fight change the fighters but sometimes you can keep with same mistakes so my goal with half is fix these mistakes As a first fight and improves a lot for the next fight so put a lot of different game for this fight for next fight I believe it will work no and with our respect to run is amazing fighter is the reason I'm gonna fight the belt, but I believe Hawaii will be the United. What can you tell us about the rematch between Fabrice Overdume and Kane Velasquez? Do you have any idea when it will take place?

I don't know yet. I spoke with Fabricio, and now the UFC don't know confirmed nothing yet. We expect for something in February or March. People say Las Vegas, another people say, other people say March

in Brazil. We don't know yes, we look forward to see the the right day. But Fabrice for sure he will be ready for them. Do you feel as though Fabricio hasn't been given the credit that he deserves people talking about Kane, not, you know, preparing long enough in Mexico,

and he alluded to this when he was on the show a couple weeks ago. As his coach, do you feel the same way? No, I believe we have to, you know, when we lost, when we lost, we have to think about us and know about another guy.

I believe they met, like I say, King is Mexico. He has to know about altitude. So we spend a long time there. We spent 30 days in Mexico in the second camp. We spent 30 days there. For sure, it was great time. We had a great time there. But it's not about just about altitude.

It's about techniques. It's about your fight, your game playing. And I think everything works perfect. It's not just about altitude, but it's about. A lot of things. The victory is a result about a lot of things. So this is my talk about that. And let's do again.

This is the reason Fabiozio wanted to fight again. Because first fight, everybody says about altitude, about, you know, two years, you know, with no fight, blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay, let's do this fight again. And then he's going to prove for sure he's the best heavyweight in the war. Fabricio beat Noggera, Fedor, King Velas. I think he deserves more respect, you know. He's no, for me, I see sometimes people put Fabicia as an underdog, and what does he have to do to prove he's the best fighting in the world.

He's the best heavy way. I can't, you know, please, I'm really humble of all martial arts because I know I have to be humble because, you know, you never can say something more than your mouth. Right. Your mouth can, if your mouth say something, have to say something correct, and I don't want to hurt nobody. But I believe, this is the best ever weight ever.

He did the legend, and he deserves all respect. Last question for you. December is the fifth year anniversary of King's MMA. Did you ever think... I look forward to see you here. Yes, I will be there. Did you ever think, you know, after leaving Shooterbox and everything, that you would be in this position, five years with this gym,

you know, two UFC champions, other great fighters training there as well. Is this crazier than you thought, or did you envision this all coming back for you? God's good. I like to say that. God's really good. God brought me here, and Kings and May is the gift from the God, you know. And for sure, I start everything from zero again since I moved to the United States. And it's not easy.

It was hard. I had a bad time here, you know. But I always look for war. I believe I put my sake front of everything. They have two champs, more than 35 professional fighters. Now, for 11 a.m. close, 11 a.m. class, I have more than 25 fighters just, you know, excited for new things. I think this is the reason I'm here. Everything happened for one of the reasons. And I believe as soon as I moved to Brazil to United States, I did the right thing.

And God bless me every, every day. And I bless to help people here. I think this is my biggest goal, help people, and make people improve everything in the gym. It's not just about martial arts, but I like to say Kingsenamed is our church. When you talk about good things, when we surround with good people around us all the time here, you make the energy, you know.

It doesn't matter if you want or if you lose. When you step beside the kings the day after, people are going to hug you, going to say how much love you. This makes you. You always know when you're back in our home, have somebody there to show love for you. It is the most important thing that you have here.

Beautiful. Thank you so much, Master Haffel-Cordero. Very happy for your success. Congratulations on five years, and good luck in the upcoming big fights that you have. Appreciate again, Ariel. You know, I like to say how happy I am to talk with you all the time. You kind of, the guy, you understand martial wars.

It's a pleasure for me to talk with you because I talk with somebody knows about martial arts and I look forward to see you here and Kings I made December 5th for our fifth anniversary. Thank you. Thank you. All right, there he is. Master Raphael Cordero, a great guy with an interesting perspective.

If you read that article about RDA welcoming Rhonda to the team, the cyborg road bump is no longer there. There's no blockage. So we'll see what happens. if she does leave. I mean, who knows? I think actually Edmund has received a lot of unfair criticism for that clip of him in the corner. People are like, oh, what kind of advice?

Listen to the clip. He's calming her down, he's being positive, and then he's starting to critique her, but then they switch to the other guys. They switch to the other corner. You can't judge half the conversation. So you can criticize them for a lot, the game plan, her actual plan of attack,

the way she fought in there, you could criticize them for a lot. but I don't think it's fair to criticize them for that particular corner talk. Let's move along now. That weekend was a big one, obviously with everything going on with Ronda Rousey, but for our next guest, it was also a very big weekend. He was in Singapore to, at least he thought,

defend his one welterway title against Luis Santos, but that never happened. A strange, a bizarre situation for Ben Ascran, and he joins us now via the magic of Skype. There he is. Funky himself. Ben, how are you? I'm doing great, Ariel.

You know what? When I was just listening to you talking, I want to know what did Edmund say on the other half of the thing where they cut him off? That is a good point. I think actually if you go on UFC Fight Pass, you can listen to the corner in its entirety. But I know everyone who's criticizing him did not do that.

And I just think, look, like I said, I think you can actually criticize him for a lot, but not that because they cut him in the middle. And you could tell that he's sort of rounding the corner. By the way, while we're on the topic, and I want to talk to you about you, obviously. But you said on Twitter that you don't think Ronda will be back. after seeing that clip on TMZ.

Like she was a shattered fighter. Can you expand on that? Well, I think it was, I think a lot, she bought into her own hype so much that this was just so devastating. It's going to be hard to come back from. One of my favorite topics to read about my whole life has just been famous athletes,

and a lot of those have been combat athletes. And sometimes when you buy into your own hype that much and the bubble gets bursted, it's hard to come back from. And that clip on TMZ, I want to say that was five days after the fight, And, you know, by that point, a well-rounded, mature adult would have said, listen, I got my ass kicked. It happens.

But I'm going to be back. This isn't the end for me. Listen, you know, people lose. That happens. It's acceptable. But I'm coming back and I'm going to get my title. But she was still so distraught over what had happened. It's going to take her a long time.

It's really good. I think it's going to take her a long time, if ever. I mean, maybe she's going to say, hey, I'm making enough money in the movies. This is a fighting thing. It's hard, right? It's tough. I'm going to go do that. It's easier. So with that in mind, if she does come back, would you say it's a mistake to come back against Holly? Does she need one or two fights to get back on track?

I think it depends on the athlete, but with Rod, the way she reacted, I would say 100%. I would say you've got to put her against a few people that she can beat up pretty easy and then see what happens. but yeah Holly man because Holly beat her everywhere I mean Holly really had a great game plan she executed which for us though there was no fighting it was tough to predict because Holly didn't look that great in all for other fights whether it was in her early fights or whether in the UFC fight she didn't look that great

and then she just looked freaking amazing a couple weeks ago and who knows if she was really you know holding her cards close to her vest as Mike Winkle John alluded to but yeah she rose to the occasion and then some it was a masterful performance it was one of the very best we've ever seen from a challenger in a title fight. But I want to talk to you about your situation. You've been competing for a long time. You've been around sports for a long time.

You've competed at the highest level. Have you ever been around a more bizarre situation as the one you experienced a couple weeks ago in Singapore? Yeah, you know what? And I talk to a bunch of people, and I don't think so. I really don't think so. And, you know, I do, Ariel, I come from the wrestling world where if you miss weight by, like, point two pounds, it's a big deal, right?

Like, people don't come. If someone on my college team were to have showed up to a match four and a half pounds over, Coach Smith probably would have just kicked him off the team. He was kind of like, you're just done. Just turn in your stuff, go home, go do college. This isn't for you. So, you know, that kind of stuff doesn't happen in my world. And then, you know, after that, every single thing was just like,

it seemed like he was trying to do everything he could not to fight. I mean, it was just a ridiculous set of circumstances. Okay, so for those who may have missed it, because they were consumed by, you know, Ronda mania, give us the shorthand version. I know you went on Facebook and kind of broke it all down and you did a very nice job of doing that. He has since refuted some of your claims, and we can get into that in the second here. But what happened from your perspective? Yeah, you know, the short version of it, and that's all you really need is the short version of it is. He showed up, showed up overweight.

I said give him as much time as he needed. How many pounds overweight? Four and a half at the beginning. Okay. He doesn't make weight. I can say as much time. I think I got down to like 2.2 over. I said, okay.

I talked to his coaches. I said, all right, that's fine. But we'll do a second way, and we'll both weigh in at 185 tomorrow. They say that's fair. They shake hands. I leave to go to media. And then they say, no, he can't do that anymore.

So I say, all right, fine, 20 pounds. You know, 20 pounds, that's reasonable, right? I thought. So then the next morning, he's eating breakfast. My buddy that's my corner, just texting me like, this dude down here eating breakfast. Like, what the heck? Then he's eating breakfast in 90 minutes.

Then he tries to go to the hospital without someone from the 1FC crew with him. So I, like, saw them going to the hospital. I'm like, no, someone's got to go with you. So then he kept asking for IVs. And the doctor said, listen, you're fine. Your liver function's fine. Your kidney function's fine. They literally tested his blood to make sure everything was fine.

And then so then he was still three pounds over the 190. He was 193. and he refused to even attempt to get down. And it's just like, do you not want to fight what you're dealing? At that point, I'm just like, this guy is just so beyond ridiculous. It's not even funny. So I didn't feel like budging at that point because he was being an idiot. What's it like for you to travel all the way from the U.S., from Milwaukee to Singapore?

You're getting ready, mentally ready. You've been doing a training camp. You're trying to avenge this bizarre fight that happened a few months ago in April. I mean, like, you're in the zone. and then you don't get that release and you have to fly all the way back home without ever fighting. How do you process that? And that was kind of the same thing that happened last time

is there really wasn't a conclusion to the fight and that's hard because, you know, prior to that, I actually was talking to my corners. I kind of got lucky prior to that. I'd never, you know, I'm going to show up every time for work. I'm going to make weight. I'm going to do what I do, but I'd never had someone pull out of a fight or miss weight

or anything like that before. So I've been pretty lucky in my career up to this point. So I'd never experienced these things, which they happen all the time. I mean, it's not uncommon in the fighting world. The fighting world's kind of the wild wild west to me. But yeah, it was kind of like very inconclusive, very a dead end. You know, you like that feeling of winning.

You like that feeling of doing all the work and getting in and get to beat somebody up and get your hand raised in front of it. But you like that feeling, and I didn't get that feeling. So it's disappointing. I've been talking to one that they're going to try to get me back in real short order. that, you know, they had a card in November, 20, whatever, in Beijing, and they got two more in December that are filled up, but they're thinking in January, February, so hopefully I'll pop back in there real quick and get the fight.

Has the ship sailed on Sappos Santos? Is that no longer in the cards for you? I would, I would say, I mean, I couldn't understand how one would want to keep him around after all the shenanigans. You know, he can refute all he wants, but we were all there. In Asia, all the hotels serve free breakfast to everybody, you know, it's real nice and stuff. Everyone from one, all the other fighters, everybody's sitting there watching this nut-thlette eat breakfast or 90 minutes, drinking juice. I mean, I personally saw him drink five glasses of juice. And then, you know, right? And then he's three pounds over, and he's like, I'm not even going to try.

Like, bro, we just saw you eat breakfast for 90 minutes. Like, were you trying to be over 190? Like, what's the deal here? So, I mean, after everything, I would have a, I believe they'd have a hard time bringing it back. But we'll see what happens. He sent a statement to us. He did an interview with the MMA junkie. I mean, saying that you're the one who, you know, he flew all the way from Brazil,

and you're the one who didn't want to fight him. I mean, did you read that stuff? And how do you react to that? Yeah. I mean, literally, I read, I think I read the first one that came up, which I believe was MMA fighting. And it was like so convoluted. so stupid that I didn't even feel the need to respond.

I just read it like, well, no one's going to believe this. And you know what, Errol usually like, I'm kind of a polarizing figure. So no matter what happens with me, if I read through comments of an article, it's usually 50-50. Yeah. Some people like me. Some people don't like me. But when I read through article to his story, it was like 98% were for me and two were for him. They were just like, what's wrong with his idiot?

Ben showed up and made weight. You know, it's not his, it's not my problem. I showed up when I made weight, I showed up to work. And we signed a contract and I fulfilled my obligation and he was the one who didn't. So, you know, I didn't really even feel the need to respond because it was just so ridiculous. Okay, so I know that this next question can be sort of viewed as unfair to one. And I admit that. But let me ask you anyway, at any point did you think to yourself, you know, this is what happens when you're not fighting for the major organizations?

Like, you know, this wouldn't happen. And I know weird things happen. We just saw with Howard Woodley and Johnny Hendricks. I'm sure you were following that situation. Or John Hain, Tyron Willie, and Kevin Gastilum. He said Tyron's been really unlucky in at 2 this year. That's right. But did you ever think that?

Like, gosh, I need to get out of this situation. Do you ever think that? You know, like I said, I think I was lucky up to this point that I've never had anyone pull out of a fight or never had anyone miss weight in my career, which, it happens. In MMA, MMA is a wild place, and it happens. So I think I've been lucky up to this point. And so, no, no, I didn't really have that feeling. I mean, you know, honestly, I was happy with one because they said,

all right, he missed wait, what do you want to do? And I said, well, I think he should have to wait again tomorrow. And they said, all right, that's fair. We support that. And after he was done being ridiculous, they never, like, tried to force me to take the fight past my stipulations, which I've heard in many cases the UFC does as their fighters, because it hurts one to not have a made event, right? It definitely hurts him, for sure.

And so it wasn't a good situation for anybody. And at no point where did they make me feel like I did something wrong. because I showed up and I was on wait. So no, you know, I didn't have that feeling at all. They are operating under different rules. They're in a different, you know, part of the world. And it's hard sometimes to, you know, for I think the casual MMA fan, North American fan, to keep up with it just because the events are on, you know,

very early in the morning here, et cetera. And then when you add to it that it was happening the same weekend as a Ronda Rousey fight, the biggest fight in UFC history as far as attendance is concerned. I mean, this one flew under the radar. I think that if it was any other weekend, especially one without a UFC event, it would have been a bigger controversy, a bigger deal. So I want to ask you being there, because I know you did a lot of media, you were with Rich Franklin and you're the champion. How big is one in Asia? Tell us the real deal.

I know you're always honest with us, not the promoter speak. Honest. Honest is it gets, Ariel. I'm going to shoot you straight. You know, one had, they did have a little trouble this year. They had a deal in China that kind of didn't go exactly as they planned, and so they wanted to do more events. but they're kind of back on track they're doing, they did two events in November,

two in December, and they're looking to do two months all next year every single month. But Singapore, it was packed. I mean, every single seat, and I had Dustin Ortiz who fights in the FC, he was with me. Your good old pal,

or Brian was with me. They can attest, you know, from the opening belt of the first fight, which is very different than American MMA. People show up for the first fight. It's really bizarre. I mean, not a seat in the house was open in Singapore. So it's a big deal.

And, you know, one advantage they have is people are, and people ask me if America's nationalistic. And I don't think it is because there's so many American fighters that America doesn't get excited about American fighter, right, because a lot of us are. But over there, I mean, these people go nuts over a Singaporean fighter or Malaysian fighter or a Philippine fighter when I was in the Philippines in April. I mean, you would be shocked. You know, and these guys are two and one.

They're, you know, they're guys who are starting their careers. but the whole freaking country gets behind him. So, yeah, 100% it's a big deal. And I know one does that, you know, their business plan is not to market towards North America because it's already so saturated between UFC, Belator World Series of Fighting and all the other organizations, it's very saturated. But there's 4 billion people over there in Asia,

and they know if they can make a dent in that market between China and Japan and Korea and Southeast Asia and India, they're going to have a very big business. And, you know, I tend to agree with them. You know, I've thought about your story a lot, and last year it was such a bizarre one because, I mean, really one of the weirder ones of the past year, because here we have a champion free agent and, you know, the whole thing with the UFC, I mean, just so strange and we covered it at length. But I've thought about you a lot recently with the new Belter. Forget about what you could be doing in the UFC, because I think that's pretty clear. But with the new Belter, I wonder, like, what would Scott Coker do with Ben Ascran? And more importantly, what does Ben Ascran think when he watches these big temp hole events? like I could be treated coming down here. Do you ever think like that? Like, man, if I just stuck around for a year,

if things worked out differently, it would be totally different from me in the States. I wouldn't have to travel so far away to fight. Well, you know, they take care of me over at once. So I'm definitely happy there. And my whole life, I've tried to make a habit of never looking back because when you look back to the decisions you could have made or things you could have done,

you end up being unhappy because the thing is you can't change them. I am where I am right now. And I can move forward, but I can't move backwards, right? It can't change time. You know, I'm a fan of what Scott Coker's doing. I think he's realized that he can't fight the UFC heads up. They can't go fighter for fighter with him. But what he can do is try to build these kind of bizarro fights, which that's, you know,

he hit Kimball on today. That's what Kimbo sucks. He's a bum, but he gets ratings. I'll tell him you said that. It's fine. You can tell him. I beat him up, no problem. So, I mean, come on.

You know he's a bum, Ariel. Don't lie about it. Well, whatever he may be. he's their biggest ratings getter, right? So, you know, so Scott knows if he gets these ratings, he gets dollars, if he gets dollars, he can sign more fighters. If he signs better fighters, he gets better ratings. And, you know, I think his end game is obviously not to do these freak show-ish fights,

but he realizes that's where he's at right now, and that's where he's got to do. And I think it's a really smart strategy. And I'm curious to see how it all plays out over the next couple of years. Would you be okay with retiring as a one fighter, or do you still long for that UFC shot? No, I would be okay. You know, I've come to terms with that for sure. And not the fact that I would have the three letters UFC behind my name, but the fact that everyone would know that I'm the best fighter in the world.

You know, that's kind of what I gave up is the ability to totally prove that in everyone else's mind. And in my mind, I know where I stand, and so I'm comfortable with that. But in my mind, that's what I gave up was the ability to totally prove that I'm the best wealth of weight in the world. But everything else being said, I'm happy, everything's good. and I'm going to keep stepping in the cage and beating up whoever shows up. And so who knows, maybe things will get funny in the next couple years. And one will sign a couple really big names. I'll get to beat them up and everyone will know them the best in the world.

So their title is on the line January 2nd. It's Robbie Lawler versus Carlos Condit. Love to hear your opinion on this. Who do you think wins and why? Yeah, and I've had my hands on both of both these guys, Ariel, and I know how I stand against them. You've trained with both of them? You've trained with both?

I, you know, not for at length, but I have worked out with both of them at some point in the past. Okay. I think Carlos, actually, you know what? Because I think Carlos has great cardio, great endurance. I don't think, I think Carlos' weakest point is the wrestling. He gets taken down very easy, but I don't think Robbie's going to do that or do it often. And I don't think Robbie's got enough in the tank left to knock Carlos out. And if it goes, if it goes the distance, Carlos is just going to keep picking up the volume

and picking up the volume and picking up the volume. And I see him kind of wearing Robbie out, maybe TKO finish or something later in the fight. That's how I would predict it going. Interesting. All right. Before I let you go... He's tricky.

I mean, he's got a lot of weapons that he likes to use. So Sappo isn't next for you, and you say you want to return, you know, first quarter of the year. Who's out there that you're thinking? I mean, I don't want you to necessarily call anyone out. You're the champ, but who comes to mind? They got a couple of these, Russian fighters, you know, they're signing a lot of these Russian fighters that are really tough.

They just had a guy who won their flyway belt in Beijing last week, and he's like, he's Uzbekistani, and I think he's 25 and O or something. So, and if you're kind of paying attention, the Soviet Union and the former Soviet Union countries are just blowing up with fighters. Whether it's the UFC or Belator or one FC. And so I know they've signed a few guys. They have a big record, but maybe not big names from those countries. I would guess one of those guys. Any final words for Mr. Santos?

He's a bum. He's like, they're so delusioned or so stupid that nothing I'm going to say is going to affect him. Oh, I was hoping to get like an Ascreen promo here. Are you cutting a promo on him? Not even one gibronym reference? I don't need to cut a pro. I told you I don't need to cut a promo on him. He's a bum.

Hey, Ariel, you know what? I almost used this today. I got a microphone. I'm actually, I started a podcast. It's amateur wrestling. We did our first song last week. We were filming our tape on our second one tonight. What do you got for me?

Come on, give me some advice, man. You're the superstar. Well, you know, it's hard to give you advice without hearing it, but I would love to hear it. And then I can give you advice. But just, you know, be yourself. People love, you know, people, you mentioned right, you know, in the middle of the interview.

You're a straight shooter. So I don't think I need to tell you to remain that way. But if you can tell it like it is and not show any bias, if you think that Anthony Pettis is going to lose to Eddie Alvarez, please tell us that because that will make for very interesting. I don't. I know, I know. You're trying to get that out of me?

No, no, no, no, no, no. But be a straight shooter. What do you got? I need some time to think about it. That's right up in your neighbor. That's what, in Boston? Boston, yeah. Will you be there?

I'm not coming. Actually, Anthony hired Israel Martinez to be his wrestling coach because he asked me to work three times a week with him. And I'm just too busy with my own fighting and other projects to be able to do that. So he wanted to get more one-on-ones And I just wasn't really able to provide him with that So I noticed that But I'm excited to see him back

So you're done with Anthony You know, obviously we're in the same gym and stuff But as far as wrestling coach, no That's interesting Anyone else, Sergio as well, right? Sergio's, I don't think he's got a fight coming up He just, he won a couple months ago Yeah, but I did see him with, I thought I saw him with Izzy

Or maybe I'm thinking Anthony as well Yeah, I think, I don't know if he's his wrestling coach But he was just, I think, he was just they were the same place same time in australia or something how do you feel about is he uh i like dude i've known israel since we were i think 11 or 12 years old i mean way way way back um and so and we both run wrestling clubs and so i see him a lot know him a lot we get along really well uh and you know everything points to he does a great job coaching mma fighters if you look at the roster of guys he's coached uh although i did win a bet because he told me serroney was going to beat up

pedd us and I bet him on that one. And I just knew Anthony was a little quicker, a little faster. So I did beat him on that bet, but Israel's a good coach. All right, Ben, appreciate the time. Thank you very much for clearing it all up for us. Always great to catch up and looking forward to your next fight.

All right, thanks, Ariel. There he is. Ben Asgren, also joining the podcast movement. Always a straight shooter. A bizarre situation. Like I said, I definitely think that it would have received more attention. promotions, and I know these are built out long in advance,

but promotions need to stay away from particular fighters. Ronda Rousey, Kahn-Megroger, of course, John Jones, when he returns, that's just in your best interest. And even if it's not happening at the exact same time, and I know, like I said, they play under different rules. I mean, they're not necessarily looking for the coverage from North American media,

and, you know, they don't necessarily want North American fans. That's not their end goal. You would get a lot more attention. attention, especially in the MMA community, which is big, but also very small, because we pay attention and everything. Like, there's a reason why when I go to Australia, and those fans are just so darn nice and polite and just such a pleasure to meet with. There's a reason why, you know, people know who we are when we go to Australia. If I was covering the Yankees and they played an exhibition game in Australia, no one would know who those reporters were. But it's so,

so in a way it's big, but it's also very small. I will say, though, that that crowd in Australia, it was definitely a unique one. I don't know if they were just, I think it was a mix of it being early in the morning, which they're typically used to, but also at the Skydome in Toronto, it was called the Rogers Center when they had UFC 129, but we all called the Skydome.

At the Skydome, that was a baseball stadium, and the configuration of a baseball stadium is a lot different than the AFL, the Australian Rules Football, League and whatever else they used that Eddie had Stadium for. So the stands were a lot further away from the cage. They had to put approximately 13,500 floor seats, which really spread things out. So I had the opportunity to be in the stands and watch the action for a couple of minutes, and you just felt very far away from it all. And I think that led to a very quiet crowd.

And the Australian fighters, you know, some of them didn't do so well. early on, so maybe that got people down. They certainly were awake when Holly Home won, but I think that's why it sounded so quiet. They were just, they were just really far away. And that's in the past, the reason why Dana White has said that he doesn't like doing those big stadium shows. I think a baseball one is a little different than one like that. Anyway, let's move along. Very excited to talk to our next guest, a pioneer of the sport of mixed martial arts, and one that has seen and done it all from the business side of things, a very important part of the growth of the sport. You know him from the famous tapout trio, and he's coming on today

to talk about this amazing new documentary that was just released last week by the great director, Bobby Razick, about the late great Charles Mask Lewis. It's an amazing film if you have not seen it. I do urge you to see it if you're a fan of MMA or not. It is great insight into the early years of the sport and into a very important player in the sports growth. We're talking to Dan Caldwell, aka Punkass of Tapout Fame. He's joining us right now via the magic Skype. There he is. Punkass. I have not seen you in a while, my friend. It's good to see you. Well, what's up, Ariel? How are you doing, brother? I'm doing great. Has been a minute. Yeah. Thank you so much for the time. Let's talk about this documentary first.

I watched it yesterday. Very emotional, obviously, you know, his untimely death. It feels like it was yesterday, and I can't imagine what it feels like for you to relive all of that. Like I said, a huge part of the growth of the sport, a pioneer. There's a reason why he's in the Hall of Fame. and rightfully so. But you guys have been working on this for quite some time. Like the trailer was released in 2013. Why did it take so long for the movie to finally come out? I think because we were self-capitalizing it,

and we just wanted to get it right. We just kept tweaking it and tweaking it and adding pieces, and we found new video and found new audio. So things we kept finding, I was going through my garage and found some stuff. I had a friend come to me, and he gave us probably our earliest video we've ever had, which was he had had some video of, we were competing at this guy, Alan Wrench's judo tournament, or actually it was a jitzy tournament. Mark Lehman was there. John Lewis was there. It was really small. It only had two competitors, Matt, and I was competing, and he was selling.

He had his table set up, and the guy had walked up and videotaped some of Charles. And he came to me like six months ago and said, hey, I got some video. And we wanted to make sure we added that video in. So just some really good stuff. We want to make sure that was in there. And we kept tweaking it until it was right. What's it like for you to watch the film and see the interviews of him and the early days of you guys together? You were partners in crime.

You were all over the sport. You were doing just as much as any promoter to build this sport and make it into what it is today. To relive those times, to relive the accident, how do you do it? I think it's because they were such good times that we had such great times doing. everything that we were doing that when I look at that, I remember them as good time. So it always puts a smile on my face. I'm glad that we had brought a video guy with us everywhere. I mean, early on from 1999, we had a videographer with us all the time. We were just, we had this guy who just followed us around and he recorded a bunch of video. And so we had some really early

footage that was great to be able to add on to this documentary. And going to, back to look at it. I mean, a lot of it was raw, and so we had to go back and look at some of the raw footage and really mix some of that up, because some of the stuff, we were making videos back then. We would say, hey, look, you buy $99 worth of clothing, we'll send you this video. So we made this

video where we would get different fights from different promoters, and we would put them all on one video. So we had one fight from King of the Cage, hook and shoot, super brawl. We put all these fights together on one tape with a bunch of little skits that we had made,

in between and it was kind of like this just crazy video that you would get for $99 or when you spent $99 bucks you'd get it free. In a weird way, did it help you grieve, you know, looking back at all this stuff, putting it together? Was it helpful to honor your friend and business partner? Like I said, your partner in crime, did it actually, you know, help more than hurt in a strange way? Yeah.

Oh, I think it was really about honoring Charles. His word, you know, I get to do these types of interviews, and I'm still here to talk about, you know, what we did and the legacy of, you know, the early days of MMA. But he's not here anymore. So I really wanted, I didn't want his voice to be forgotten. And anybody who does forget it, they can always go back and watch this video and see the struggle.

I mean, this video, see, we started out, this movie was supposed to be about us three. We had started making this video or this movie. And if you ever see that, you see, there's a 15-minute clip on YouTube called Underdogs. Yeah. And that was the beginning stages. The movie was actually supposed to be called Underdogs. And it was about us and our early years of tap out.

And then when Charles passed away, we switched it and turned the focus onto him. What do you think Charles Lewis would say about MMA and in particular the UFC today? the Reebok deal, the amount of events, the way the sport has grown for better or worse, knowing him like you do, what do you think he'd say about it? Well, I think there's, you know, there's always disappointment there. There were, you know, promises made and things that, you know, discussions that we had had. And we just always felt like there would be some part in whether, even if it wasn't at that level, in the UFC for us.

And it just, you know, it wasn't the money. It wasn't even the money because, you know, and that's a whole other discussion. But it's, you know, I think he'd be disappointed, but there's always a part of us that were just fans of mixed martial arts. So it's just stepping back and out of that, we're excited about the growth of mixed martial arts and the growth of the sport and the growth of the UFC.

I know a few years back, You in Skysgrape sold the company. So I'm wondering, do you have any affiliation to tap out anymore? We just, you know, we talk to them. We're not on the payroll of that. We still own a piece of that company, but we're not on the payroll of them, of the authentic brands group team anymore, no.

How do you feel about the direction of the brand? I know now they're with WWE, very much less so with MMA, And in general, it just feels like a different brand. How do you feel about it? Yeah, I mean, it is a different brand. But it's the, you know, it's the survival of a brand. It needs to go on. It needs to keep, it does, domestically, it's really, you know, not in the place that I would like it to be.

But internationally, it has a lot of growth and it's in a lot of places that we wouldn't have been, we would have had a hard time or a long time. It would have taken us to really expand the brand in those locations. So it has expanded in the way that it's expanded internationally, but it's disappointing some of the things that happened domestically with what's going on. Do you think if Charles was still around, you would have never sold the company? You know, I think about that, and there were a lot of things going on with the crash of the market and, you know, just everything was happening at once. Charles passing away.

And, you know, a big part of absolutely, I don't think it would have been sold. I'm not sure that would have been the best thing for the brand, though, too, you know, at that point. But the brand not being sold, a lot of the reason the brand was sold was just because I was just tired of, I didn't want to do it without Charles anymore. It was, we started this as a company together, and that was the exciting part. We were two friends starting this company, and that's what was exciting. And not having that dynamic anymore, it was like the dynamic duo wasn't there. You know, I didn't, yeah, I was, I feel like in some ways I was robin, and I don't want to do this without Batman. So do you still attend MMA and in particular UFC events?

Because like I say, I used to see you all the time checking into the hotel at the events. You were there. You were all there. You were synonymous with the UFC brand. You were like a Bruce Buffer or Dana or an Ariani. Like, those are certain figures that you want to see at a UFC event over the last decade. You guys are a part of the show, and you would sit there in the front row with your gear and everything fans would come up to you. Do you still go to those events?

You know, I do. I usually pick and choose them a little bit more carefully. I'm trying to spend a little more time with the family. You know, I got kids, and I really want to see them more. I spent 15 years running around, you know, I think ever since UFC 23, we've been pretty much almost, not every UFC, but a lot of them, most of them. And so it's been, you know, it's been crazy and flying all over the world. I just recently lost my passport.

I was so disappointed. Oh, I've lost them there first. Oh, there is. Sorry, I'm right here. Yep. Yeah, it was insane. So it was just, you know, it was a crazy roller coaster ride that I just wanted to settle down a little bit. So I'm still going the big ones.

I'll be at Jose Aldo and McGregor. I won't miss that weekend. But, yeah. I'll hit Memorial, I'll hit some of the far ones. You know, I'll decide to, well, you know, there's a good one. I almost went to that one. Oh. Sorry about that.

Disappointed now that I didn't go to that one. But some, yeah, you know, I enjoy it. So you still watch the sport. Despite the fact that you say you were disappointed with a few things and promises and whatnot, you don't really hold any, you know, ill feelings toward the sport. No, no. I mean, it's, you know, it's business. I understand business too.

I've had to make unfortunate decisions because of business, and it's tough sometimes, and you've got to make business decisions, and you've got to do the things that you feel are right for your brand. I mean, I'm sure you're a businessman. You've come across a business decision that probably you make because you're looking at the bigger picture for all, everybody that's involved. And I understand those decisions. Is it disappointing?

Absolutely. but is it where I would I made the same decision maybe you know it's like it's it's it's it's they're making decisions based on their brand and where their loyalty lies and to you know the thousand people that they are obligated to including the fighters and to be clear are you alluding to the rebuck deal the fact that you guys can't sponsor fighters anymore in the cage um that yeah I mean that's disappointing you know I hate that I love the fighters that's what built this brand is that we were about the fighters. We loved, I loved, you know, there are friends. I still talk to these guys, you know, and it's, it's, it's just hard because that part of it is I really want to

help the fighters. I remember a quote from the film where Mask says, we are going to stay in this sport until it gets to its pinnacle. And so do you feel like in, in a weird way, you weren't able to fulfill that? Because one could say that its pinnacle was a few years ago, you know, with Brock Lester and all that stuff. So you did reach the mountaintop in that regard, but does a party you wish you stuck around a little longer? Oh, of course. I wish we stuck around longer. But I do think we saw its peak in some ways. I mean, not that it can't grow still as a sport. I still think it is growing as a sport. But I think we saw, you know, we were in this sport when it was illegal. I was arrested at, you know, for being at an MMA event. It's like that's the, that shows you where we were. I mean, we were

running. We picked up our totes and our clothes and took off running. I mean, these things were, I remember using secret passwords to get into fights. John Lober's event in Huntington Beach. I mean, all these, those, those were real illegal events back when it was only legal in three states in the country. So to see it now where it is today, I mean, I got to believe that was the pinnacle. If you can compare that. And you know, it's funny, like you're talking like that and if you have someone who speaks like that about a different kind of sport or a form of entertainment, you would think that was 50 years ago. That was like 15 years ago that you were doing that.

Isn't it surreal when you take a step back and see just how much has happened in the last less than two decades? You know, I feel privileged to be a part of it. You know, I think back and I think, you know, we saw, you know, this is, and yeah, now things move so much faster. So when you think about baseball in 1918, you know, it's like this is where we are. all said imagine seeing 1918 but then five years later see in 1950 you know and then five years later

see in 1980 right you know that's about we saw the whole we saw 100 years sorry yeah I'm back on sorry about that that's the downgrades of using your phone it's leaving your laptop at your other house oh no problem but um so you know we've seen 100 years it's

it's great it's incredible and and I'm excited for the sport, excited where, you know, where we started and what we were able to build. I mean, I'd like to look at the glass as being half full instead of half empty here. And I'm sure masks would feel the same because he was an incredibly positive man. So I'm just curious, like, what do you do on a daily basis now that you're no longer on the payroll? Like, well, what are you working on these days? I have other companies I've been working on.

And, you know, I do a lot of investments. Mostly that's what I've been doing. It makes it easier to be able to sit back and invest in companies and look at a company from 30,000 feet, not have to be in the day-to-day minutiae of dealing with the BS. And it's just more fun. I get to enjoy myself a little bit more, get to do some more vacations. And I hadn't done a vacation in 10 years.

I mean, well, our vacations were going to our first UFC in England or something like that was a vacation for us. So, but it's just, I'm trying to enjoy myself with my family more. But still, I'm building incredible businesses and work with other people. I've been speaking a lot too, which has been really fun. Going to speak to business conferences and high schools and all that's been, I really enjoyed that a lot. I've been working on that a lot. Do you still speak to Skyscrape?

And if so, how's he doing? I do, yeah. He's doing great. Yeah, he started a muffler company called Black Widow Mufflers. Okay. And it's sick. He's outfitting my 63 and my truck. And he's always loved cars.

He's been on a bunch of car shows on one of those auto channels on television. So he's always been in and around cars. As long as I've known him from the very first time I met him, he was running like a chival or something, 67 chival. And he's always had old cars and he's always fixed up old cars. so it's kind of right in his wheelhouse. He's enjoying himself. By the way, I thought of you guys recently because the UFC came out with this new show on Fight Pass

called Looking for a Fight where they go around and try to find up-and-coming talent. I was like, this is the tap-out show from 2007. This is back in the day. Did you think the same thing when you saw that? I thought the same exact thing, yeah. And I was like, man, we should go do our show again. I really, that was probably the most fun I've ever had my life

doing those two shows. And, you know, we were slated to do it. a third season before Charles passed away. It was right before our third season started. So it was really, you know, that was the one thing. I really wish we'd have been able to do one more season because we were really dialing in what we did. And it was really getting fun.

The first time, it was long and we were trying to figure things out still. But by the second season, we were having a lot of fun. By third season, we were going to kill it. Yeah. So I wish we'd been able to do another season. But it's a great, I'm glad that somebody's doing that formula because it was, I'm sure they're enjoying themselves. So it's been six and a half years and you never get over something like that, a tragedy like that.

Do you still feel like a part of you is gone? I mean, you feel as though every single day, every single moment you're still thinking about your friend. And, you know, no matter what, I know time heals wounds, but it'll just never be the same in your life. Yeah. I mean, I'm actually, he inspires me a lot, especially in my speaking now. He inspires me so much that I think about him like he's still here. But I do when I really, if I sit down and have a chance to really reminisce, especially like watching this movie, I'd go back.

And I want to say this movie isn't a downer. You know, it has a, it's a really positive movie in a lot of ways. I agree. But I want people to be inspired by it. Like, I'm inspired by him all the time. When I think about our early conversations, you know, we were friends for 10 years before we started the company. Or like eight years. And I enjoyed every single one of our conversations.

I still remember things that we would say to each other and just how he was, you know, he was like almost 10 years older than I was. So I looked at him like a big brother. And he was just, I mean, his thought process was just so much different than everybody else's. And he really helped me start to think like that, just the way he would think and how he would look at a problem. And it's encouraged me to look at life different and treat my kids different and treat the way I look at success and the way I look at. myself and my chance for just to just go out and create success so um it's i think i want that i'm hoping that's what that this movie does for people anybody who's thinking about starting a business or anybody who knows the tap out brand if you never even heard of the tap out brand this can be an

inspiring movie and really teaches you a lot about who who charles was i'm happy you said that uh a it's it's a beautiful film and you all should be very proud of it but even if you're not an m mhm a fan it's it's like the american dream it's it's about starting a company from your car and building it up to a multi-million dollar enterprise, and that's what you guys did. So, you know, tragically, it ended a little short, but what a great film to have for you to show your kids and for his legacy to live on. It was a lot of fun for me who, you know, obviously came into the sport a little later to see those early days because I have a great appreciation for people like you and him and Skyscrape and everyone else back in the day who was doing this to get us

to this point. So I really urge anyone who's an MMA fan, new or old, not even an MMA fan, to watch this because it's an important part of history. And you guys, I think, did it wonderfully. Oh, thanks, Sarah. I remember doing an interview right after he passed away, I think in probably like 2009 or 10 with you. I think we were out by the Hudson. Yeah, somewhere up by the water there.

Yeah, yeah, and just a great time. You've always been a great person in the sport. I love to see you grow too. I enjoy seeing everybody grow in this sport because it really gave people a chance to come from those humble beginnings and really grow into something special. I mean, dude, it's watching you on Foxes.

I just sit back and go, man, I was next to this dude when he was interviewing me with a little tiny microphone from his pocket. Like, you know, it's just like crazy to see how far people have come. And it's great to see you come this far, and I enjoy you having me on here. Well, it was great to catch up. Again, you could go on Vimeo right now, Vimeo.com. Just type in mask. It will come up. It's a very cheap rental, and it's a quick and very enjoyable watch.

You can sit back and learn a lot about where this sport came. from and where it is today. It's beautiful. I can't say enough good things. Thank you so much for the time. Congrats on the film. Good luck with the film. And hopefully we'll catch up again sooner rather than later. I'll see you in December. All right.

I'll see you there. I'll see you there. There he is. Punkass from Tap Out Fame, Dan Caldwell. Great stuff from him. Really appreciate his time. As always, it was very nice to catch up with him. All right, let's move along now.

You know, two weeks ago, our last show, we talked about Hoyst Gracie coming out of retirement and fighting Ken Chamrock. That's a big deal. The other big fight that night for Belator in Houston, Texas is going to be a very interesting grudge match, a very unique grudge match. It's going to be Dada 5,000 against the one and only Kimbo Slices. And Kimbo Slic was on our show around a month and a half or so ago. One of our favorite guests, it was our 300th episode. He was kind enough to join us, but we didn't know about this fight happening. So we had to get him back on to talk about it all. And this time, there's a twist. This time we're being joined by his longtime manager and friend Mike Inber who has been very kind to me over the year,

so I'm very happy that he's on the phone as well. They're both joining us on the phone right now. Kimbo, Mike, are you there? We're here. Hey, what's up, my man? What's up, guys? It's great to have you on the program. Thank you very much for the time.

So, Kimbo, let me start with you. You know, a lot of people, I mean, everyone in MMA, in or out of MMA knows who you are. You are synonymous with the sport. You are a face of this sport. But when they announced this particular fight, they were like, who's that out of 5,000? A lot of M.

fans didn't know who he was because they don't know and he's had a couple of fights but they don't know about his background. Is this different from all your fights because of the background? I want you to get into it in a second but does this one feel different? Is it more personal than even the Kent Shamrock fight or any of the others? Yeah, Eric, man,

that's probably real personal. Because I know this fuck, nigga man, you know? This cat knows me. We know each other very well. So for him to be running his mouth like he's running his mouth the shit makes it personal. Okay, so explain to us why.

Why is it so personal? Tell us the background. I mean, for the nature of things, Ariel, man, you know, first of all, we went to school together, just to rough it up. We went to school together. We grew up in the same fucking neighborhood. So this man, this nigger knows a great deal about me. He knows I'm a type of person that grew up in our neighborhood as being a fighter.

I'm a type of a nigga that will put the hands on you. you know what I'm saying? So he knows that much about me. He ain't that type of niggas. He didn't grow up like I grew up. Even though we're from the same neighborhood, this fuck-nick, know what type of nigger I am, even until the day.

So for him to be running his mouth, the way he's running his mouth area, he's just made this shit super personal. Super personal. Mike, let me ask you, I can hear it in his voice. You're there with Kimbo. You know him better than anyone.

Have you ever felt him this way? I mean, have you ever thought that he, like, have you ever seen him, I should say, this way before a fight, any kind of fight? No, actually, no, I haven't. And at the same time, I've never really wanted to do an interview with him like this. But, you know, he's had over 20 pro fights, and this is the first one I'm really doing with him. And it's really just to clarify a few things.

We actually had all went to high school together. And, you know, when Kimbo finally got, you know, his chance, and he ended up going to fight pro, it was his decision, along with one of our good friends who passed away Big Sean, to bring on a few of our buddies to ride with us.

He wasn't a bodyguard. Kimbo didn't need a fucking bodyguard. We just brought some of our old people from the neighborhood with us. What is what? When our four gets re-mercing or change for your best days. Okay.

So what really ended up happening was, you know, and Dada obviously had some side to him. He wanted, you know, to get involved in it. And we actually let one of Kimbo's trainers at the time, Randy Katami, hold pads for him. And all he did was shake his head, like, you know, I'm not going to waste my time with him. So, but at the same time, you know, Dada, he really wanted to give it a shot. And at the time, you know, it wasn't about getting him a pro fight. He was, you know, just going to do one of these backyard fights. And what ended up happening was,

We were in Vegas for a convention he was with us, and we set up a fight for him there. The day of the fight, he came walking into our hotel room and was like rolling his ankle around and said his ankle didn't feel good, and he didn't want to do it, and he had to back out. And obviously, that didn't sit well. These people that were in Vegas, they weren't the type of people to back out from. And, you know, we let it go. We got back home. and we actually let him do one of these fights,

which was the clip that you saw that, I don't know, maybe he thought was buried somewhere. It's never been seen, and I shared it with you, because one of his big things was that we were afraid he was going to take Kimbo shine from him. Well, if you share that video

with your viewers and yourself and whoever else, I think it speaks for itself. It wasn't, there's no, it didn't seem like there is anything there. So what ended up happening, you know, he supposedly, you know, got better and he wanted to have another fight, and we set up this fight with this guy

out of Gould's named Tully Sessions. Gouls is, you know, like a neighborhood like Parine, and this guy Tully Sessions was known to be a nasty brother with some mean hands, and we set up this fight, and the day of the fight, guess what? Dada no-shows. Doesn't come.

And I'm not sure if you're familiar with somebody else from our neighborhood. This guy, Lovell. He's had a couple pro fights. He actually fought my organ and beat him in an MMA fight. Well, Level fights at middleweight or maybe even less than middleweight, but he's a true G. And he, that day, TeleSessions was there expecting the fight, and Level went and fought.

He was given up probably 60 pounds, fought like a 12-minute war, and beat him. But he took that fight because Dada no-showed again. And part of this recurring theme is, you know, the people that are around Dada now, all they know is what he's told them. You know, they've drank his Kool-Aid just like he's drinking his own Kool-A. He's never been a fighter. You can tell by the two real MMA, the pro matches he had, you know how he looks in the the cage. But I'll give credit what it's due, and he's a decent promoter that he was able to get

himself out there. And I guess he's an okay referee, but he is a decent promoter. And one thing that he did do was find himself a great filmmaker to expose what was what he was doing in the backyard in Billy Corbin. He was a very bright guy. And, you know, like I said, he's a brilliant filmmaker. However, he didn't do his due diligence, because if he would have tried to talk to either myself or Kimbo together, we would have let him know what he was dealing with. He didn't really fact check, you know, and, you know, Dada claims he's like a street fighting legend or something. He claims he's 38 and O. He's never had more than two fights in the backyard. And if he's had any more than two fights, where are they at? Where's it at? You know,

it's nowhere. Who's even said they've seen it? You can check our story. You could, you could at level, level Martinez. He's the one that stood up and fought Telly that day. This guy wasn't even anywhere in the neighborhood. So, yeah, this makes it personal because, you know, in that documentary, they tried to make it seem that we were afraid that he was going to take something away from Kimbo. They don't even know us. We would love to have put people on. We're not afraid of anyone taking anything. But the fact of the matter is there was nothing to take because he didn't have shit. So we didn't even want him part of our team because he couldn't fucking fight.

And when he backed out of the second fight, we really wanted nothing to do with him. And that's the true story why we parted ways. It wasn't on his end. It was on our end. We don't let fake people be around us. And that's exactly what he is. He shouldn't be fighting anymore. He should be repting fights.

promoting his little backyard league that he's trying to do. So, Kimbo, with that in mind, and I appreciate that because obviously the story that I've read countless times now is that he was security guard and decided to go his own way and that I've read that you guys were kind of upset about that and that created this rift. Kimbo, with that all in mind, were you in favor of this fight when you were approached by Scott Koker

and his team? Like, did you want to, like I said, everyone knows who you are in the MMA world, a different group knows who he is. And maybe people who saw the documentary as well, but in our little world here, everyone knows who you are. So you're kind of bringing him along for the ride. You're propping him up.

Did you want to open that can of worms on Spike and for Bellator? Eric, I'm going to be straight up with you, man. You know what I'm saying? When, before we even got approached with this fight with this dude, you know what I'm saying? I was talking a lot of shit as well to on the street level.

You know what I'm saying? The shit was getting back to me. on the street level of things. You know, I keep my ear to the streets. This fuck, nigger, do a lot of talking, man. And I don't like that. I don't appreciate it, you know what I'm saying, to the point of where I, you know,

I was going to come to this crib. There was a pussy, nigga, talking about, you know what I'm saying? He's going to offer me a job. Fuck, nigga, you still live with your mama. Nick, I have made seven figures, bro. Four times over. How the fuck you're going to offer me a job, man?

You know what I'm saying? And that's disrespect. Not only you're going to stole my fucking image, you don't got my fucking tattoos, you say you from the Bahamas, man, you know what I'm saying? It's like, when I,

you know, when I got a post with this fight from Belitoro, you know what I'm saying? It was like, fuck yeah, I'm gonna do this. You know,

just, you don't even got to ask me twice. I'll sign this shit right now. Let's get this shit out of the way now. Because I already owe this fucking nigga ass open. We was going to go to this nigga crib,

knocking his mama's door where he still lives at and be like, nigga, let's run it. Let's run it now. You know what I'm saying? In your yard. All right, let's do it right here right now.

But the push-knicker was never around. We had a home boy that passed away. I went to the wake. When this nigga knew that I was at the wake, he didn't even show up to pay respect because I was there. You know what I'm saying? So, no, no, man, he really digging itself into a hole here, Ariel.

You know, I don't really like to come off like this. You know, I never wanted, you know, people who really see this angry solemnly like this. And I'm gritting my teeth, but they go, so I ain't got to worry about nothing. Man, this push-knickers really try me, and he's still running his mouth like a real fuck nigga. See, I'm responding to the bullshit accusations this man is coming with. I'm responding to it, Ariel. But you know me from the future from the past, bro. I'm never the one to really run my mouth to any other fighter.

I just get in the ring and I'll try to knock your ass out. But this is going to be a different fight. I'm grinding differently. I'm training differently. I want to shut this nigga up. break his jaw like seriously focusing on breaking his jaw seriously focusing on breaking his ribs

I mean god damn I wish the ref don't even be in the ring and we don't really really need one he'll rep he'll quit itself I'm a man this shit is personal bro I mean I get work better talking about this dude you know just just for the nature of things man and you know like I said

I never wanted people to you know what I'm saying see this part of me like yourself because I'm really good getting, you know, getting twisted right now. Hey, I want to just clarify one other thing, Ariel, while Kimbo takes a little breather. He's ready to go see him. You know, in their documentary that they did,

you know, they portrayed it that we actually went to its first pro fight, you know, to support him. We went because our friend, Ray Fuentes, had his first pro fight that evening. And that's why we were there. We also witnessed that he was fighting a guy, meaning Dada, fought a guy who was always, and six, and they had to pull that grown man off of him in order to make it fair and for him

to be able to win that fight. He fought a guy who never even won a fight, oh and six, and he couldn't hang in and handle his own. And then they gave him one other guy who was one in ten after that. So he's had zero accomplishments in the cage, really even out of the cage, other than being a promoter. And he gets credit for being a decent promoter. and he's done a good job with that.

But as a fighter, I think he really stepped the wrong way because, you know, he's going to see an angry dude across from him. So, Mike, as his longtime friend, like I said, you know Kimbo better than anyone, is there any concern on your part? You see him right now, he's super fired up, he's never been like this before, that he's going to fight too emotionally in there, that he's going to stray away from what he needs to do to win this fight?

I mean, you know, he's always been, you know, in control of his own emotions, and I think he knows how to channel it in the right way, and he'll use him to his advantage. But, you know, you can't help but have this be personal. And, you know, he rubbed him the wrong way. It's almost like, you see that movie single white female? Yes.

He's like the single black male. He literally got the same no-fear tax, painted as nails black, grew his beard out. I mean, it's fucking weird is what it is. You know, he can say whatever he wanted or once. He didn't invent the beard. He didn't invent this. But the fact of the matter is, the guy really got the same fucking tattoos.

It's just weird. So I guess if somebody did that to me or you, you know, yeah, you take it personally. So as worked up as he is right now, I think he's going to be fine from fine night, just make him train a little harder and make him break that jaw a little more. Kimbo, you were with him in Houston when they announced it. So I'm wondering, A, when's the last time you were actually in the first time? same room as him and B, what was that like for you? Was it hard for you to, you know, not attack the guy considering how you feel about him?

No, Ariel, it ain't hard because, you know, to be honest with you, I mean, I'm going to be straight up honest with you. I am down to fight this motherfucker, bro, in or out of the ring at this point. You know what I'm saying? He just need to watch his fucking self. You know what I'm saying? Because that I know from the original dog, I'm a street fighter, bro. I don't really need to bring the cage for this one here.

I've made my change. I'm good. I'm blessed financially. M motherfucker, you need to watch your step. If we are ever in the same room because of Bellator, put this here together here, he need to watch what he says.

If he even looked at me hard, I'm going to hit him in his mouth. So I ain't got nothing to worry about, man. I'm ready to run it with this nigga. Either way it goes. Either way it goes. If he switch out, fight night, if he switch out to fight night,

February 19th, I'm going to fucking still fight him. if he's still in Texas and he switched out, the fight won't still go down. Either way it goes, this pussy nigga owe me this. He owe me this one here.

You know, you, you, you, you took 25 minutes out of your time and created me in a fucking video game

and he created himself and he showed it. I mean, it was funny, dude. This man showed himself beating me up on a video game

and recorded it on Instagram I thought it was the funniest shit in the world, man. And I'm like, this is his dream fight in a video game. Okay, fine. So now we're going to make this shit, personally. We're going to make this shit.

Live is going to be real. Ariel, man, forgive me for not being able to answer you in the way you want me to, brother. But this, this, this, this, this the streets right here, baby. You know what I'm saying? I mean, this is, you know, he won a dog fight. This is what it is. You know, Bellator, I thank God that they put this shit together.

But they're going to get, people going to get what they want to see. Me knocking this motherfucker guy, man. And that's just the bottom line. You need this fight and go However, I don't want it to go We can wrestle this bitch We can take it to the ground I'm ready for whatever

But this man cannot see me in the hand game You know what I'm saying If he wanted, I want to do whatever Whatever the fuck he wanted to do him down with it But I'm gonna end this shit I'm in his career I'm gonna wipe his mouth up You know, he's gonna be drinking out of a straw

For like three, four months And I guarantee you that I'm focusing On really shutting this dude up Literally, I'm focusing on that No need to apologize. I definitely appreciate the passion. Mike, from your perspective, you know this game very well.

Is it kind of a mistake to not have this fight in Miami? Because I feel like it would sell it in a second if it was there. Well, I mean, you know, obviously it would be great to have it in our backyard. But, you know, it's not our decision. It would have been phenomenal if it would have been at one of the Miami arenas. But, you know, Baltimore's got their, you know, plans and we're just going along with it. But he,

you know, Kimbo's always got a lot of love in Texas, so it's all good to do it there. What do you make of what he's done, what Data has done as far as his quote unquote empire, I mean, you feel like he's just, if there was no Kimbo slice, would there even be... You can't call it an empire.

Okay. You know, he's... I apologize. If anything, Billy Corbin's the big winner, because he's the one that exposed what this guy, you know, what he was doing. So, you know, he put together a great doc. It's just unfortunate that, you know,

it was misleading in the fact that, you know, because some people thought Kimball had something to do with that documentary. You know, he had nothing to do with it. They never even contacted us. Kimber's documentary is called The Truth, and that's going to air on Spike before this fight sometime in February. Oh, okay. But you didn't say something maybe about,

15 minutes ago about her you open up a can of worms by giving him the exposure. Yeah. And you know what? It is kind of bittersweet by putting him, you know, giving him that exposure that he never would have got. But it's going to expose him in a nasty way because, you know, he is going to get either knocked out or something bad is going to happen to him. So, yeah, you know, maybe a lot of other people deserve the fight.

And there's a lot of other people out there that Bellator has that we could fight. but this was an option. Kimball obviously really wanted it, and that's what we're going to make happen. Kimbo, what was up from your perspective with him holding, I think he was holding a sledgehammer? What was he trying to say by coming out with that and on the poster as well?

He's going back to work. I did a video shoot one time before where I had the sledgehammer with the lead lead to see, and I had the sledgehammer with some chains. and just to see this again, this fuck nigger with the same sludge hammer

and it just really hurts me, man, how this guy literally just takes the time and look over my shit and then, you know, because all my shit is on the Kimbo-305.com site. You'll see, you know, a lot of things that I've done. And it's like this guy just goes on there

and literally tries to take whichever one he feels like he wants to do and he copied the style. So it really bothered me. because, you know, when we did the video shoot, it was a lot of shit laying around. I just grabbed the sludge hammer, and I grabbed a chain,

and I wrapped it around my face. So I like that look, the sludge hammer in one hand, and the chain in another hand, you know, and we started taking pictures that way. And then to see him with a sludge hammer, I said, this motherfucker. I say, God damn it,

I'm just getting sick of this guy. Every time I turn around, I'm seeing something that's this guy still in my style. So it's just fucking with me. Little shit is just fucking with me. Mike, were you there in Houston? Am I going to be there in Houston?

No, no. Were you there in Houston when they made the announcement? Oh, I was there, yes. What was it like for you? Wait, actually, no, they made the announcement in San Jose. My mistake, yes. No, wait, for St. Louis. St. Louis.

No, my bad, St. Louis. My bad, yeah, yeah. Were you there? Yeah, I was there. Hey, I'm as emotional as he is just because, like, look, we all went to high school together. I know what kind of person Ferg was in high school I know what kind of person

Dada was and you know Furg thought he was doing him a favor by bringing him around when he had his first pro fight and he, you know, he went and he did his thing if he just would have kept his mouth shut

and just played referee and promoter it probably would have been all right and we would have supported him but it's the fact that he really, you know he's pressed the issue and now he's got it. So I feel

every inch of what Kimball feels other than he didn't put my tattoos on his body. He didn't put my beard or whatever. You know, he took all these personal things from him and put it on himself. So, I mean, I get it. And yeah, it's going to be interesting.

So Kimbo, during your time away from the sport, I know you dabbled a little bit of boxing, did anyone try to make this fight before, even maybe not in an actual MMA cage or ring? I mean, how close were you guys to fighting in the past, in the backyard or not? Let me answer that.

World Series of fighting actually tried to make the fight. Okay. And Dada priced himself too far out because he knew they weren't going to pay it. He acted like he was interested, but he never took it. And so, yeah, they did try to make that happen. That was before Kimball was signed with Bellator. and that was a fight we wanted, but, you know, he, uh, yeah, he placed himself too far out so they wouldn't pay it. Do you have similar friends right now, Kimbo?

And, like, is he trying to recruit people from your team, or did he ever try? Is it at all awkward like that between you two? Anybody that rides with him from Parine is choosing the wrong fucking horse. They're not the real people from down there if they're riding with him. and, you know, that's their mistake. And if that's what they want to do, neither one of us give a fuck. That's true. And I couldn't say that better, but there are real talk, though, man, everybody from our neck of the woods,

everybody from down south, man, from Paran, Richemaheis, Gould, Southmanee Heights, Cudler Ridge, Cutler Manor, you know what I'm saying, Homestead, everybody down on that end, just day-counting period in general, Liberty City, Fort Lauderdale, Hollywood, you know, Lincoln, everybody from down on our end they know what's up man you know what I'm saying yeah they they fought with him a little bit because he you know what I'm saying

started doing you know in the backyard thing a little bit after we stopped so he you know he gave him you know a little bit more entertainment to the people in the hood you know and they kind of like that you know what I'm saying but now do they on this level here between me and this nigga here do they fully support him

dog I don't think so area I don't think they're going to ride with this fart nigger they know he's phoned you know what I'm saying Now, he may have some people in his corner, you know what I'm saying that, tooting his horn a little bit. Like I said, he's drinking his own cool ad, and he got them people drinking his shit, too. But the real, real, real motherfuckers from Parian,

the real people from down south, the real, too hard of people from down south, and our nicked them look, areas, they know what's up. They're going to listen to your show. They know what's up already, man. So this is why this is going to be probably one of the most, you would watch fight.

You know what I'm saying? And the highest ratings, one of the highest ratings by TV is going to get. Because a lot of people from that area, we're talking about it. I'm talking about an entire state. You know what I'm saying? Almost in a entire state in a few cities, over 10, 15 cities who may not be able to make it to Texas. Everybody's going to be tuning in.

If it won't even be no crime committed to the streets of Florida, that night of the 19th of February, people are going to all be tuned in watching me knock this fuck, nigger out. How far do you guys live from each other? Do you see him often when you're out and about? Ariel. I'm a six, I'm a seven-figure nigga, I've moved up, baby.

I'm out of the white folks now, man. You know what I'm saying? This niggins still living with his mama. We don't live close to each other right now. But I know where he's stayed. He started with my own neighborhood. Do you have any idea where he'll be training for the fight? from what I read he's training in his backyard

I'm turning in my backyard too area it's an ATT that's what have you started training yet yeah I've been literally I've been training

from when this fight was signed but yeah I've been training I've been moving in a little bit a while until it's time to get in the crunch time so I don't burn myself out so I don't start I don't start peeking but yeah I'm training right now

and and I I know, like you said, you've been thinking about this fight for a long time. Have you envisioned the way it's going down? Do you already see how this whole thing is going to unfold on the 19th of February? Yeah, I mean, I'm sorry, all. I'm a little afraid. I'm afraid that if this dude, it just happens and I get knocked out, that I might commit suicide.

I'm afraid of a lot of things. Because every fighter has a fight a chance is a punch away from a win. So just with that alone, I take every fight respectfully. And, you know, I come in smart. I come in sharp, keep my D tight, keep that chin tough. You know, I'm a smarter fighter. You know, I'm a stronger fighter. I got more hot than Dada.

My balls is big than his. Goddard is not wooking me in this fight. There's nothing he can do in this fight that's going to hurt me or move me. So there's nothing that he does. I live in this fight a few times. Nothing about his game that you've seen, I mean, from limited, you know, footage that concerns you at all. Yeah. I fought some of the best.

Yeah. You know, and I'm a very confident fighter. And when my mind and my heart and my spirit are all in the same accord, I'm a force to be reckoned with within my own rights. Sometimes I fear myself, you know, and I just got to take a breather from time to time and gather myself because I get too worked up from it. So between nine, then I'll be, you know, I'm going to be all right. Right now, I'm so fucking hot, man.

You know, it's just really touching right now. Mike, how do you keep Kimbo focused here and not let him get too crazy? Or do you not even try? He'll be all right. He'll be all right. Oh, man. He'll be fine. He don't need me for that.

All right. Yeah, but we need each other, but now he's going to be just fine. What do you think this does ratings-wise, Mike? Well, you know, we are obviously, Hoise and Ken are on the same night. So I think with that combo, it should at least do what Kimbo-Sharmock did. You know, obviously Dada brings nothing to the table, promotionally-wise, with his name. So it's going to, it'll be Kimball, Hoyson, and Ken bringing the viewers. But I say at least does par with the last one did.

Okay. And Kimbo, two last things for you, if I can. You know, what happened two weekends ago in Melbourne with Rhonda Rousey actually reminded me of you because the reaction to her knockout, everyone jumped on her and sent a lot of hate her way. And it kind of reminded me of how everyone was kind of celebrating to a degree when you suffered your setback against Seth Petrazzelli. And I know you guys are different kind of athletes and everything, but if there's anything that you can say to Rhonda at this point, you know, I don't know if you saw that clip of her on TMZ, you know, covering her face and obviously very embarrassed by the. the whole situation and how she looks. What would you say to her? Yeah, Ronald, don't feel bad, baby.

You know, we win some, we lose some, and that's just part of it. You know, we never, you know, go into a fight expecting to lose. No one never goes in the fight expecting to lose. But you just got to know if it does happen, you got to keep your head up anyways. But in your fight, you just keep your chin down and your guards up. But after the shit, it's over with, you just keep your head up, you know. From that, from that law, you gain a video. because then you find out who the true people were in your corner.

The true people who were around you will be there and they would know how to communicate with you. Rather than being on a wimpy wagon like, oh, it's going to be okay and everything is fine. See, that's the type of shit. A true champion do not want to hear. You know, when you're a successor, you don't want to hear that type of shit. So the true people would know how to communicate with you, you know, even through that little set, back. And that's all it is, Rhonda. It's just a minor setback. You'll be fine, baby. And if Dada 5,000 is listening to this, DeFier Harris, what's the message to him?

Dad, I'm going to beat your motherfucking ass, man. You already know that fuck, nigga. I'm going to break your shit up. Anything you want to add, Mike? Did you watch the video I sent you? I did. We played it. We were playing it while you guys were talking. All right, cool. I just wanted, you know, the world. to know we weren't it wasn't about hiding some brutal video that he had he looked like fucking shit in that video and we don't have any room for that in our camp and that's why we we parted ways because he backed out of the fight after it so you know i just wanted to back up what we were saying and i think that video speaks for itself well guys i appreciate the time i appreciate you know

how passionate you are about this and uh looking forward to it february 19th just got a whole lot more interesting. Kimbo Slicse versus Dada 5,000, a very personal fight. Thank you for coming on this particular show to clear the air as best as possible. And Kimbo, you know, always a pleasure. Mike, great to have you on. It was fun to interview you for the first time here. Much respect to you guys and we'll talk to you soon. Thanks for having both of us, man. You know, it's much appreciated. My pleasure. I'll talk to you soon. All right. Take care.

There they are. Kimbo Slice and his longtime manager and friend, as you heard, as you went to high school together, Mike Inber, stopping by to clear the air on the simmering feud between him and Data 5,000. We'd love to have that on the show as well. Would have made it a little tricky at the same time, but we don't want another Dwayne Ludwig situation, if you know what I'm saying. We'd love to have his side. He's done a few more interviews I've seen. Kimbo's done a few, but now that they got their side out, only fair, of course. So interesting stuff there.

That's the two big fights on February 19th. And I'm super curious to see what kind of ratings that does on Spike TV. Hoise Gracie versus Ken Chamrock and then Kimbo versus Dada 5,000. It's interesting to get his perspective the same way that I asked Carlos Condit. He knows from a different POV about the vitriol, a pro athlete. I mean, anyone who steps into a freaking cage, you know, for an MMA fight, forget about athletes who rise to the occasion and compete on the biggest stage possible in basketball, baseball, football, hockey. They deserve a lot of respect as well. I know they get paid for it, but there's a lot on the line.

There's a lot on the line. There's a lot of pressure on their shoulders. And in my opinion, even more so when it's, you know, hand-to-hand combat. You know, for Ronda, whether you love or a hater to receive the backlash that has come her way, over the last week or so is unfair. And because of what she's done for everyone, for me as media, for what she's done for her fellow fighters.

I mean, she raised the game. That's a pioneer. That's a trailblazer. None of that changes. And you could be a fan. I mean, Carlos said it perfectly. Just look at what, just look at what Holly Holm is saying.

Just look at how she's reacting to it all. You know what I mean? I mean, it reminds me a lot of the Rampage Jackson, Chuck Ludelf, fight, Chuck turned the corner, he's on ESPN the magazine, who's on entourage, and then he gets knocked out, and everyone jumps off and says, oh, he's a Friday's a phony, and this is times a million. But just pay attention to how Holly is dealing with all this. You know, you could be a fan of hers, but to celebrate one's demise is just a bad look, in my opinion. She got exposed, she was thoroughly

dominated, she was beat up, it was a master class, but a little class would be nice. Maybe it's asking for a lot. Let's move along. Let's go to the Skype machine and welcome in our next guest. Good friend of the show, joining us once again via the magic Skype. There he is. You know, since he's become this TV star, radio star, it's very hard to get a few minutes of Michael Bispings time, but he has carved out some of it for us here. Michael, how are you? I am very well, sir, and always got time for the MMA hour. You know this. Thank you. I appreciate it. Before we get to your business, my friend, I want to actually get your take on the backlash that Rhonda has received. I mean, to a degree, it reminds me somewhat of,

you know, what happened to you with Dan Henderson, everyone just shoving it in your face. And that was a different time, social media wise, right? She has received some vitriol, as I put it earlier. What do you make of it? Because I think also it speaks to how popular she was and how she was able to build herself into a star where people actually care whether she wins or loses. So a lot of credit her, but it's not a good look. Sure. Well, I mean, I keep losing you a little bit. Yeah, I mean, to be honest, Ron, there is such a big star, such a breakout star, and a crossover star, you know, there's people talking about this that don't necessarily follow MMA.

For example, I went into the gym last week to lift weights and the gym manager and, you know, some old timers that I see in there, you know, just doing their Monday morning workout, were coming up to me and saying, wow, did you see that at the weekend? And these are people that don't necessarily follow MMA. So there was a lot more eyes on this than typically, you know, average knockout in the UFC. And as I say, I think that speaks to the level of stardom that she has. Of course, you know, I mean, I hate to use that expression.

Haders are going to hate. But, you know, that's what people like to do. They like to build people up. And then when they get to a certain level, they like to knock them back down again. You're right. There is some comparisons in terms of the Dan Henderson thing, you know. I got knocked out. And a lot of people said I was never going to come back from that.

And he said I was finished. Joe Robin in particular said that. He said, you know, you can never come back from a knockout like that. And of course, I did. And I think Ronda's going through the same thing right now. A lot of people saying that she's done. Saturday night I was working on Fox Sports One with Richard Evans, and Richard was saying, that's it.

She'll never return from that. She'll disappear into movies. And I think that's ridiculous. You know, I think any person, any competitor that has managed to rise to the top like she did, and any competitor that has that natural competitive streak, you know, she competed at the Olympics, became world champion. She suggests that she's not going to try and return from that

and, you know, get revenge for that loss and try and get a belt back. I think that's crazy. That said, are you disappointed with the way she's handling the loss? Are we hearing a feedback here? Do you hear me? Okay, it's gone. Are you disappointed with the way she's handling the loss?

Like, even when she put out a small statement, she didn't congratulate Holly. She hasn't done any interviews when she was walking out of the airport. She was covering her face. Would you have done it differently? I don't know if I would have done it differently. I think actually, to be honest, she did the right thing at the airport by covering her face because the photographers, they want that picture, you know, of her face busted up.

And that would have then followed her for the rest of her life. Anytime there was any kind of confrontation on social media or anything, they would have, you know, use those pictures, put some funny writing at the top and bottom of it. I believe they call it a meme. I'm not down with the kids, so I'm not sure.

But a meme, I think, is the terminology. And that would have followed her. Now, of course, they've got that anyway. They've got that in the octagon, you know, when she got beat. But, you know, why give them more fuel? You know, those pictures were never going to be complimentary.

They were always going to be pictures to show what Holly did to her. Now, of course, that hurts her pride. You know, she's a proud, A fierce competitor. You don't want to give them more fuel. And yeah, she's been quiet, but most fighters are typically quiet after a loss.

And certainly somebody that's, you know, gone so high and then the drop, you know, you go so high and then you fall so high as well or so deep. So, of course, she's going to go away. She's going to lick her wounds, disappear for a little while, and then slowly you start to creep out. That's the way I've done it. You know, you're going to fight.

You're full of comfort. confidence, you know, you talk a little smack, whatever it is. And then, you know, I've lost here and there, of course. And you are a little, you know, you're depressed, you're pissed off, you're angry. But for me, I've always wanted to get back in there. So you let the dust settle a little bit. And then you slowly start making a presence on social media again. But yeah, it's only a matter of time before we see her come back. Last thing on this, if I'm Holly, I want that rematch right away because you may have her where you want her and you want to capitalize on it. There's only so much you can change in a few months. If you're Rhonda, do you want, if you Michael Bisping are Rhonda Rousey right now, do you want that rematch right away or do you want a few other fights to build yourself back up? Well, if I am Michael Bisping or I am Ronda Rouser, the fighter, the fighter inside you wants to get back in there right away because we believe that we can do it differently. we made a mistake, whether it be in game planning or in preparation. We think, you know, our egos say we know we can do it next time.

If I'm a coach or a manager, I would say, listen, take some time. You know, work on some things. Let you get over that mentally, 100% mentally so you're not getting in there and fighting on emotion. You know, you're going to get over that. There's going to be a lot of emotions that she has to deal with. work on some things potentially have some other fights but I don't think there's any need for that

she's beating everybody else in the women's division in the Bantamweight division there's no need to fight anybody else I think the immediate rematch is what everybody wants to see she went in there with plan A she didn't have a plan B plan A in the past has always worked

she's always been able to dominate her opponents take them down and arm by them yes we've seen a couple of you know TKOs but you know predominantly that's what she likes to do take them down. It didn't work this time. Somebody had a masterful game plan to counter that. What she needs to work on

is plan B. I would have liked to have seen plan B could have been, listen, don't chase her in round two. Plan your feet in the center of the octagon and make Holly come to her. That would have made the fight very different. If Holly had to go to Rhonda, Rhonda could have slit the punches, got the clinch

and then maybe take it down. Who knows? But that certainly would have been something she could have tried. So, you know, she'll go away. She'll lick her wounds. She'll talk to her coaches, her manager, and they'll come back, and the rematch will be even bigger. Of course, you were supposed to fight on that card. You had to withdraw due to an elbow injury. What was it like for you to watch?

You know, it's funny, I was talking to someone. I was in Melbourne, and the crowd was, it was a disappointing crowd from an energy perspective. It was just very quiet. And I think it's because the seats were too far away. It was early in the morning, but I was like, this card needs a Michael Bisping. Like, up until the Mark Hunt fight, they just weren't into it. And I think you versus Whitaker would have helped get the crowd excited. For you watching it, what was that like?

Were you like, man, look at that crowd. I wish I could be there. Or, you know, were you over it at that point? I was kind of over it. Well, I thought I was until I watched it on the night. And of course, it was bittersweet. You know, I was watching it. There were great fights.

But sitting there and seeing, you know, the size of the arena and how big it was. You know, of course, I wanted to be in there. So it's, you know, I should have been in the octagon, not sat on the couch with a bottle of nice, delicious. cold beer in my hands. I should have been in the octagon. And yeah, you know, of course. I wanted to be there. You know, but these things happen, you know.

But you're right. There was kind of a level of energy missing, and I always try and provide that, and I'll certainly do that in my next fight. But, you know, injuries are part of the game. Before the injury, could Michael Bisping, who's coming off that win over Tows, ladies, have beaten the Robert Whitaker who showed up that night?

Listen, Robert is a nice guy. I've met him a couple of times. You're laughing because you know there's a butt coming. There is a butt on his way, for sure. He's a nice guy. I want to clarify that. I've spent some time with him. Nothing against him.

Great young prospect, good kid. He's got some skills. But come on. I watched that fight. I'll tell you why I was devastating for having to pull out of that fight because for once I could have gone in there. I was going to get my first ever submission victory inside the UFC. I was going to take him down.

I was going to play with him. I would have been a middleweight with a size advantage for once. I used to fight at 205. I came down to middleweight thinking I was going to be the big guy. And, you know, how wrong was I? I mean, my last few fights, Talley's Lytis is huge at 185. Dalloway is huge. Luke Rockall before that. These are all monsters at 185.

Robert Whitaker, I would have had the size advantage. And I was excited about that. It was an opportunity. to bully somebody a little bit. But I'd have beaten both of those guys. You know, Uriah and Robert, it was okay, you know, but come on. Let's get real here, Ariel.

They're not on my level, buddy. Come on, we know this. I'm happy to hear you say that. How is the elbow? How's your health right now? Yeah, no, it's good. I just came to come to the gym right now. I'm lifting weights. And for the first time ever today, I was able to do some shoulder press

on my left side. I've been trying that week by week and even on a lightweight, I couldn't do it. This morning I was able to, not very heavy, but even still, I was able to do that. Progress is being made. I'm rolling in the gym. I'm doing jiu-jitsu. I hit pads for the first time last week. I did five rounds on the pads.

And, you know, it was okay. It was okay. I mean, it's still, you know, I mean, you can see here, it's almost straight. A few weeks ago it was around there, you know, the range of motion. That hurts a little bit there. It doesn't quite straighten out, but it's not far. The O.C. Fight Docs, I'm going to give them a shout, Dr. Kessler. here in Irish County.

They're doing a fantastic job with my rehab. Yeah, I'm good. I'm good. So as you mentioned, you worked on the Fox desk this past weekend. Great stuff, as always. I'm not just saying it because you are here. I really truly love listening to your analysis and insight when you're doing your TV work. But how about this new wrinkle?

Now you're a radio host as well. I always knew that you love the media. But, I mean, come on, you have to take our jobs now, too. You're taking TV jobs. You're taking radio jobs. This is very exciting, though. I want to meet you, Carol. I want to be you.

It all seems, it seems like you're going down that path, and I respect you for it. How did this come about? So, yeah, you know, I mean, I've been doing more and more work for Fox, which is fantastic. You know, those guys there really made me feel welcome. It really helped me. You know, they give me a lot of good feedback and how to get better and better. So I thank everybody over at Fox. And, you know, I've never been one to shy away from things to say.

and it was through a friend of mine actually we got talking about the posse... Listen, everybody does a podcast. Yeah. Everybody has a podcast. Everyone, everyone. You name it, if they can open their mouth and string a sentence together,

they're talking and trying to fucking sell something. And an idea of a podcast was pitched to me, and I was... I didn't want to, you know, because everybody... I mean, I kind of wanted to, but I didn't want to be that guy jumping on the podcast panmagon. So then eventually,

Sirius came to me and they kind of, you know, showed some interest, Sirius XM. And they've got a new fight channel now, Sirius XM Rush 93. A lot of good content on there talking about fights, MMA, boxing, and some lifestyle things as well. And we did a test show. It went very well.

I got a co-host, Louis J. Gomez, who's a stand-up comedian in New York and knows a lot about MMA as well. So we did a test show, it went very well. And here we are. We had the initial show last week. No show this week because Thursday's Thanksgiving, but every week from one to three,

so what is that? Four to six. No, sorry, three to five, so six to eight Eastern, Series X-Sem Bush 93. Check it out. Every Thursday. Every Thursday, yes. Okay, so you got the first show out of the way.

Give us your honest critique. How did you do? You know, it was okay. I felt like the test. show was better. Oh, wow. That's interesting. Yeah, the test show was better. The first show it was good. I thought so. It was okay. Could have been better, of course.

I mean, after everything I do, whether it's a fight, whether it's on, you know, work on Fox, whether it was the test show, whatever it is, I'm always hypercritical. I always want to do better. And to be honest, it was just talk about Ronda Browsy and Hollyholm because that's what everybody wanted to talk

about. Yeah. You know, and so we did that. We spent the adequate time on that. but I'm a little bit bored about talking about Ronda Rousey and Holly Holon, to be quite frank. No disrespect to why the women, but there's a whole world and there's a lot of things going on out there that I'd rather talk about.

So, yeah, but please, everybody, tune in. Sirius XF Rush 93. The countdown with Michael Bissing and Lewis J. Gomez. Yes. Now, it's, so it's not only MMA. No, it's not. Of course, you know, I mean, you want to have to spend a couple of minutes

my time to realize that I am a world of knowledge on politics and social current issues. You know, I'm always talking about these types of things. Real hard-hitting factual radio is what we're talking about here, Ariel. So this is going to be like the Buffer show where you're giving us like relationship advice and sex tips and things like that? Is that what Buffer does on his? Oh, yeah, it's fantastic. Oh, really?

Yeah, I've never had the pleasure. Oh, well, you're missing out. But I would check it out for sure. Are you doing that sort of thing? Can I call you up and say, my girlfriend cheated on me? Is like, is it that sort of thing? Oh, you know, I mean, we take callers on the show as well, so people listening, feel free to call in. You know, we'll sit down on the planet out week by week.

What's big, you know, what's worth talking about. So it all depends what's in the news that week. In all honesty, though, when you started this journey, did you ever even think that this stuff would be available at the end of the tunnel? And you're not even at the end of the tunnel. But the fact that you're making this extra income, it's got to be an incredible you know, the incredible gift that I would imagine came out of nowhere for you. Yeah, no, it's fantastic because one thing that always worried me as a fighter, and it still does now, you know, the world is littered with fantastic fighters that, you know, did really well.

And then afterwards, the sport spits them out and they're broke, you know, and they have nothing. And, you know, the going is good now. But I'm still a young man. I'm 36, you know. I've got three children that I want to provide for and I want to keep them in the lifestyle that they've become accustomed to. And as I said, any gym all over the world

is listed with, you know, old fighters that didn't invest the money, that didn't make enough money. There's no pension plan for a fighter. There's no retirement plan. So, you know, whilst I'm still very much focused on being a fighter, of course I am, and that's my primary focus,

I'm just, you know, trying to exercise all these possible opportunities that I have in the sidelines. So that when the time comes to walk away, you know, I have a career and things are going well with Fox. I do some things for the UFC, you know, radio now. I do a little bit of acting, you know, a little bit of action stuff. So with all these things, I'm opening in the gym with the UFC gym franchise people as well. So all these little things, you know, hopefully will equate to a living.

But of course, I'm still 100% focused on my fighting right now. A true Renaissance man. So let's talk about that fighting. You've made it clear that you want to fight in London in February. What can you tell us? Who are you fighting? It came out yesterday that there's a report out of Brazil, Globo, that Anderson's going to fight Vitor. I know you were interested in Anderson.

What can you tell us about your next fight? Yeah, that's right. Well, I did hear some rumors, some whispers. And of course, Anderson himself did mention that he was fighting me, apparently, which was news to me. That was something that I wanted. You know, initially, I know I said I didn't want to fight anybody with the history of PEDs.

But then I thought about it, I thought, well, listen, you know, Anderson's a huge name. And, you know, of course, as I say, I'm still fighting, but I am 36. So I want to have the biggest fights possible. And that was a fight that I was interesting. But of course, as you mentioned, he's fighting Vitor now.

So that obviously is not happening. I want a fight in London. It's been five years, six years almost, since I fought there. So, yeah, for sure. I want to find out and whoever the UFC give me. I know a lot of the good guys are tied up right now. I thought possibly they might give me Robert Whitaker

because he just won, you know. But I don't think that's the way they're going. In fact, I know that well, which is the way they're going. I know who the opponent is, but I can't say. Oh, always the company man. Listen, I'm a big professional. I've got to respect my obligations to the UFC. Sure.

And, yeah, when the time comes, you will know. I was going to throw out a guess, but then that kind of puts you in an awkward. Can I guess? Okay, but if I'm right, will you tell me I'm right? Can we have some kind of theme tune, you know, some like Quichot music in the background? They might have that kind of operation over there at Sirius, but we don't have that kind of budget here on the MMA hour. Okay, these are my two guesses, all right? All right, go ahead.

Lioto Machita, Gagard Musasi. Read into that smile and laugh, whatever you will. Could have hit the nail on the head. You may have guessed, but also you may have not. Okay, you won't. It is the top 10 opponent. There you go. That's as much as I'm willing to say.

Are you main event? Are you main event? I am not sure yet. Apparently, yeah, this card, they're trying to have three really big fights. I would love to be the main event. Of course, it all depends who else is on the card. Okay. All right.

out for that. One last thing before I let you go. It's a big weekend coming up for the middleweights in December. You got Chris Wyman going up against obviously Luke Rockhold and Jacquet versus Yowell. Can you give us your predictions for those two fights? Absolutely. I think in the co-main event, we're going to see a new world champion. I respect Chris, even though we've been back and forth on social media a little bit. You know, Chris is a great guy. He's a great fighter. He's been a great champion. I just think Rockhold is going to be too fast and too slick on the feet.

In the wrestling department, I believe Luke, training with D.C. and Kane Velasquez, I think he's going to be prepared to stop the takedowns. And I think on the floor, Chris is probably better on the floor, but I think Luke is good enough

to completely negate anything that Chris can offer in that department. And I think on the feet, I think Luke has the advantage. I think he's longer. Well, he is longer. He has the range. He has a more diverse striking game,

and he's faster, and I think speed is key. Chris does have an advantage in the fact that Anderson Silver was a Southpour. The rematch was Anderson Silver, that's a Southpour. Vitor was a Southpour. Mishida was a Southpour. So he's got a lot of experience fighting Southpours. Of course, when Orthodox fighters like myself fight a Southpour, that can be tricky and it throws them off.

So Luke won't have that advantage. Chris is used. The last few years of his life, he's been fighting Southbos. So, you know, that will be advantageous for Chris. But I still believe the fight will predominantly play out on the feet, and Luke has the advantage there. So I think Luke gets it done. What about Jacqueray Romero?

Jackerre Romero, Jackeray. Jackeray wins that fight. Whilst Romero looks great, you know, he does have a limited game, but still the power that he has and the really, wrestling advantage allows him to dominate a lot of opponents. Certainly with the wrestling, he takes people down almost at will. He's incredibly powerful

and, of course, he's incredibly skillful. You don't really want to take Jackeray down to the floor. That's never the smartest game. Certainly for Yoel Romero, who being a wrestler doesn't have the jiu jitsu credentials. They are two very different sports, even though there is a lot of clinching

and grappling on the floor, they're very different sports. If he takes Jackeret down, he may find himself getting submitted on defeat. I think he's still learning. He's very, very powerful, but I think Jackeray has the skills to dominate in all areas, to be honest. So I think my money would be on Jackeray to win that fight. Michael, a pleasure as always, my friend. Congratulations on the new show. It's Sirius XM. 93 every Thursday. It's from, if I got this right, 3 p.m. Pacific to 5 p.m. Pacific, that's 6 to 8 here on the East Coast, right? That is correct. I wonder if I can hear it

I was traveling that day. Is there an on-demand component? Can I go back into my app? I believe there is. I believe there is. You can download an app. Yeah, I have it. You've got to be a subscriber to Syria.

So I believe there will be an on-demand. If there isn't yet, there will be shortly. And yeah, yeah, no, it's a lot of fun. It's a lot of fun. You know, of course, satellite radio. We can get a little loose and licked, shall we say, than what we can on Fox for obvious reasons. and our opinions can run wild.

So tune in, don't miss it. And yeah, thank you for the opportunity to talk to you as always, Ariel. Yes, my pleasure. Congratulations. We'll talk to you soon. My inspiration, my everything. Finally. Finally, you speak the truth.

It's about time. It took long enough. Thank you very much, Mike. My pleasure. Take care. Michael Bisping, stopping by from Orange County. Check out the show. I did not get a chance to check it out yet because I was travel.

and we will talk about that a little later on, but, man, he is great. He is great at what he does, and I don't just say that because I work for Fox and I work with him at times, although we sometimes cross past. Not always. I really enjoy his insight. Very, very comfortable on the microphone, and if you get him in that sort of radio setting, I would imagine he'd be even better. So good job on Sirius' part for putting Michael in there.

So he says a top 10 opponent, we can figure this out. And honestly, my real guess, look, let's figure it out. My real guess is, here we go, here we go, here we go. Okay, Wyman, Rockhold, they have fights. Jacaree, Romero, they have fights. Vitor, we're assuming, even though I was told by a source, by the way, that that fight isn't official, but they have fights. Vitor and Anderson, who isn't on the rankings right now.

Now we have Machita Kennedy. We'll skip them for a second. Bisping Musassi, skip them for a second, Whitaker, who he says it's not him, and tell us ladies who we just fought. So really, in my opinion, it's Kennedy, Machita, Musassi. I'm going to guess they go Kennedy, Machita. I'm going to guess they go Musassi Bispin. I mean, it's simple math. We'll find out.

Let's move along. Let's go to our last guest of the day. She's been very patient, and hopefully she has some exciting news for us. She's joining us via the Magical Skype. She is the president of Invicta FC. It has been a while since we were joined by the great Shannon Knapp, and there she is. How are you? Hey, I'm doing good.

Thank you. Okay, so let's go right. Thanks for having me. It's always fun. Oh, yes, of course. It's a pleasure, as always. And like I said, it has been a while, so I'm happy to have you. So a lot of people are curious as to what's on your mind.

What do you have up your sleeve? The floor is yours. Well, we are going to go ahead and announce our next event, which will take place January 16th at the hangar at the OC Fairground. So that's kind of in the Orange County area. That card is going to be headlined by Chris Cyborg. We're tentatively working on a matchup between her and Cindy Dandoyce at the 140-pound weight class. It will definitely update you more as the week goes on if that matchup is a solid matchup or, you know, what her choices will be. And, of course, it's going to be headlined by a title fight as well, which will be Olivia Hanata Susa and Deanna Bennett at $150.

15 pounds. It's a really good card. We've got a lot of great matchups. I'll go ahead and throw a couple more out there, which Lisa Ellis versus Amber Brown and Jody Eskball versus Angela Hill. So it's going to be a really good card as the upcoming weeks. We're going to continue to announce the matchups. I think the fans are going to be very excited and very happy about this card. Well, congratulations on that. That is a good card. And congratulations, by the way, on signing Angela Hill. Definitely think she has a lot more fight in her after leaving the UFC. about Cyborg, you said, so it's not 100% that Cindy is the opponent. Is it 100% though that her next fight will be at 140 this fight in January? You know, I think that there are some talks going on between her and her camp and Zufa. So I think that it's best to just put it out there and say that, you know, tentatively that is what we have scheduled.

Is that subject to change? It is highly possible, so I'd just rather err on the cautious side. Okay, I understand. Speaking of being cautious, I mean, is there any concern on your point? part as the promoter of having cyborg fight at 140? No, not at all. Not at all. You know, I think it comes down to, you know, I think everybody's where the landscape

changed slightly, you know, when the loss of the fight. So I think it comes down to the conversations that they have and, you know, I'm a team players or whatever works out, you know, it's great. And you mentioned that. It's a unique relationship that you have because as it has come out, she is being paid by Zufa. Who decides who she fights? And we do, most of the time.

You know, I mean, you know, everybody has input, you know, and I think it's the way it should be. But, you know, majority of the time, we make the matchups, and everybody seems to be happy and pleased with, you know, the efforts that we put forth. How difficult is it these days to find an opponent for Cyborg? I said, you know, after attending the event, covering the event in July, it was starting to feel a little weird for me because she's just annihilating these people. And I don't know if she's being challenged as much as she should be. for you as the president of the company, are you having a hard time finding suitable opponents for her? You know, yes and no.

You know, she is so dominating. So sometimes that's hard when you look at the styles. You know, we have a lot of young up-and-coming, 145-pounders, but, you know, they're certainly not athletes we're going to throw into the deep end at this point in time. So, yeah, it can be a struggle, but they're out there. You know, and there never seems to be a shortage of someone asking

for that fight regardless. And that's kind of why the Cindy fight has come up. You know, she asked for it. And sometimes when you poke, you get what you ask for. So it seems to be the fight that she's very, very much has her sights set on. You know, what transpired there,

I'm not quite sure. But, Cyberry's definitely motivated for that fight. I will get bad. So it's a personal fight? You know, well, something happened that, you know, send it over on that edge.

Okay. You know, Cindy, you know, Cindy's, she has some, you know, notable wins under a record. Marluse Coonan, you know, she beat the girl that Cyborg lost to, you know, in the movie Thai-Fi, in MMA, of course.

But, I mean, so she does have, you know, she brings things to the table, the judo aspect. You know, so we'll see. There's a lot of good stuff going on, though. You know, a couple weeks ago, I had meetings in Las Vegas with UFC. I'm very amped up with what they have planned for Fight Pass.

Eric Winters is on board now. And, you know, I think the focus is really going to change. I think the fans are going to be incredibly excited about that. Oh. You know, I was excited. So, you know, I think it's going to be a great deal for athletes, fans, everybody. Well, for my experience, Eric is a phenomenal guy and a very sharp business guy coming from the world of Yahoo! Most recently, he joined the team.

And it seems like he's doing a lot of great stuff in a very short amount of time. so that is good to hear. Are you comfortable with where Invicta is at these days? Because, you know, it seemed like there was a bit of a transition period when you lost all your straw weights and with them taking, obviously, some of the bantam weights. Like, how would you characterize the state of Invicta at this point? You know, I read all that stuff.

Everybody always likes to say something that's usually never positive and more to the next side when they're complaining. But I feel like we're in a really good spot. You know, we have incredible support, And it's not me just saying that because trust me, if someone was being mean, I'm going to scream it from the rafters. But, you know, Zufa, the team over there, everybody has been incredible, incredible for us. You know, it felt really good to walk in there and to see how much they really appreciate, respect, and just playing out in joy and Victa and the content that we deliver. So that's really exciting, you know.

It gets you motivated. You know, sometimes when you're in the trenches, you know, it's those valleys going up and down. But no, we're very healthy. We're working on a 125-pound tournament that we'll be announcing soon. We're working on the brackets. Our current champion, Barb Hancheck, she's had to take some time off. So we will be doing the interim title in that division as well. So, you know, we're ready and prepared to mix things up this year.

Will she be coming back? I haven't heard from her in a long time. Yeah, definitely. She'll be back. she has expressed interest in, you know, the 115 pound of vision. Oh. But, you know, certainly her taking the time to, you know, get things organized and comfortable with where she's at is real important. You mentioned everyone at Zufa being very bullish on Invicta and Women's MMA.

Who can blame them? You know, just look at what happened in Melbourne. What was it like for you to watch a car that was headlined by four women, co-main event, main event, fighting for the 135-1? 115 title, two divisions that you helped build in front of 56,000 people. And now we find out about some of the pay-per-view numbers. It sounds like it might be the second best, the best. Who knows?

It did very well. We know that. What was that like for you? It's amazing. I mean, you know, that's why you love this sport, or at least that's why I do, is because, you know, anything's possible in the sport, you know? And to see, you know, that upset, to see what happened that night, it was very, very emotional on many, many levels, you know.

I feel for Rhonda, I think that the fans have been incredibly, incredibly rude, crude, mean. You know, I guess I'm just not that kind of person. If you've got to take the shot, take the shot and move out of the pocket. No sense of standing in there, you know, just, you know, if something you hate about someone, if you react the same way that you accuse and you hate on them, it makes you no different, no better. Yeah. But I'm going to tell you this. I never knew Holly before.

You know, of course I knew about her fighting style and a record, but it genuinely makes me smile to watch this girl do interviews. You know, she's really, really a pleasant, pleasant human being. It's, you know, I think the sport's great right now. I think this mix up is huge for, you know, the sport itself for the women. It creates lots of new storylines. It kind of breeds life back into it. Sure, yeah.

And you nailed it. I mean, everyone speaks so highly of her, and you can tell she's genuine. and also her team, like her husband and her coach, it's just all tremendous, even if you don't root for her, you don't have a dog in the fight. I mean, you can't help but not be happy for these people because they're just such good human beings. They were so gracious with their time before and after the fight

with the media and fans and everything, just beautiful human beings. So it's going to be interesting to see how things evolve. And I'm wondering for you, for your business, have you even noticed, like, women's MMA is the hot topic in the sport today, you know, eight days later and it will remain that way, I think, for at least a week or so maybe until the next UFC event.

Does this help InVict? even though it's not your fighters? Absolutely. You know, I've always said that, you know, one of the things, you know, with Rhonda, I always called her kind of the tag team partner, you know, every door she breaks down, every barrier she crosses does nothing but pull the rest of us along, you know, and that's huge from the women in the sport. We have a long way to go, you know, but the distance is getting shorter and shorter every day.

So, you know, and to have, you know, the big deal for me is to have, you know, the UFC support behind that. They're a marketing machine. I don't think it gets much bigger or better. So for them to be so supportive, not just of the athletes that are under their banner, but to be incredibly supportive of Victa, and there's never a time I can't pick up the phone call if I've got an issue or a problem, and they're not eager to help.

And that's not them succeeding. That's for us to continue to move forward and succeed. So that's a pretty cool thing. Were you surprised that they parted ways with Angela Hill? Yes. you know, to a degree. I'm delighted that we get her back over here, you know, so that we get the opportunity to help her grow in her career. You know, I think that, you know, she's very entertaining inside the cage and outside the, you know. She's, so yeah, you know, lucky for us, right?

Sure. Yeah, their loss is your gain. Very much enjoy watching Alexa Grasso fight. We haven't seen her for a bit. When is she returning? You know, she's supposed to be just now starting to be able to get back into the training. So, you know, I think it won't be long. I think our next event in March, you're definitely going to see probably Alexa on that card. As well as I think that, you know, we're going to do a lot of our focus this year is going to be on the West Coast. We're going to look to do more shows in the UFC or in conjunction. So, you know, there's a lot of positive things coming in.

It's very exciting. Yeah. Even just share this much. Sure, sure. Yes, I'm anxious to know more. In July, I thought it was a brilliant move on your part to put on an event the same week as 189. I was sort of expecting that for this December event. But then once they put on the third event, I thought maybe it's a little crowded.

Is that something that you want to continue doing? Yeah, I think everybody's happy. I think everybody enjoys it. I certainly think the feedback that the UFC has gotten has been incredibly positive, as well as the feedback that we get here. You know, they like that. Fans like the access. Yeah.

Be able to do two shows, you know. So, yeah, I think it's a good fit for both. You know, we will definitely work towards that. You know, we actually try it on a couple other events, dates, but, you know, you can only have so many events in a weekend. Sure. And certainly, you know, sometimes the timing just doesn't work out. But I think we'll look to see more of that in the future.

And by the way, for this event, January 16th, is that, I'm not familiar with the area. Is that an outdoor venue? You said it was a fairgrounds? Yeah, actually, no, it's not. It's called the hangar. Oh, the hangar. Yeah, it's an insight, but it's located on that, I guess, what they call the Orange County Fairgrounds. So, yeah, so it's very notorious for having customers and things like that.

And, of course, that has been a hotbed for MMA for a very long time. Is there a chance that this is Cyborg's last fight in Invicta? I know. Well, I don't think so. I think that everything's always subject to change, but it is my understanding that, you know, she will continue to compete here, you know, until she drops down to 35.

Okay. Do you check in with her? That's my understanding. Yeah, do you check in with her to see, you know, I know she's working with the brilliant George Lockhart, but do you check in with her to see how that sort of process is going? because I personally believe everyone said, oh, the cyborg fight is out the window for Ronda. I mean, look no further than Mayweather, Pachial.

Just because Pachial got knocked out, they still had the fight and it did very well. So I don't think, especially in MMA, that it's a big deal. But do you check in with it from time to time? Yeah, you know, I speak with her manager every day, you know, pretty much every day. So, yeah, you know, I think, you know, this, it does change some things, but I think there are a lot of different options still on the table. Exciting fights that we want to see, you know. So I think that Chris is focused and, you know, she's working her way.

Whatever direction that is, you know, she's game. She's always game to fight. Well, I'm looking forward to it. Any other fights? Any other announcements you want to make while you have the floor here? Why I'm not just blurting them all out? Come on. All right.

It's Thanksgiving. Just keep coming, yeah. Give you a treat for Thanksgiving. Yeah. Yeah, they're going to kill me for this one. Oh. But my PR team. So, but we'll go ahead and I'm going to tell you, we're going to do Rekine versus Irene Aldana.

Oh, wait, wait. We missed the first part. It got cut out there. So who is it against Irene? Rekyll Pinnington. Or Pinnington, I didn't mean that, Lulu. Okay. Anyway, Raquel Fuller Lulu versus Irene Aldana.

Sorry. on that same car so wow all right so some big names there tremendous i like it i love the fight between joddy and angelo's won anytime cyborg fights it's it's very exciting so january 16th live on ufc fight pass that is a what is that a what is that a third is that a saturday okay so you got the floors because there's no ufc event that day right that's exciting right yes i like that for you you got the spotlight um awesome well i really appreciate you coming on to announce this thank you very much Like I said, it's been a while. Love covering the last one in July.

I hope to get the chance to do it again very soon. Love the product. Happy to hear that you guys are back. Oh, thank you. Thank you very much. And, Case I'll see you soon. Happy holiday, see you and your family. Thank you very much.

Same to you and yours. Appreciate it greatly. There she is. Invicta FC President Shannon Knapp. Coming on the show to break some news, that is always appreciated. And it's good that Invicto's back. And I think that all this madness,

all this crazy stuff about Rhonda and Holly home and even Yowna, it's all good for Invicta. It keeps women's MMA alive. It keeps it moving along. It keeps it interesting. I don't think that this is the death of women's MMA. I don't think this is the death of the UFC,

as crazy as it may sound when people say that. This is all good, in my opinion. The rematch will be big. Ronda's next fight, if it's not against Holly, it would be big. You just made a new star in Holly who no one believed in, you know, 10 days ago. This is a great time.

and they killed it in Melbourne. And oh, by the way, if you think that the UFC is dead, just wait three weeks for UFC 194 and look at that gate. Come on. All right. I'm going to blow through, and I apologize to New York, Rick, because I made him work hard for Inside the Vault, but I know he likes his airtime.

So I'm going to blow through Inside the Vault this week because we are running at a time. Mr. New York, Rick, are you there? I'm here. I'm sorry about that, but we're running at that. happens. We had a good show. I think that interview with Kimbo and Mike was quite worth it. I learned some new words in that show in that interview. Excuse me. Before we get going, let's say hello to a special guest who's joining us in your studio there. He's probably been bugging the

crap out of you for the last year. Actually, do we want to do this? Well, yes. He may be working for the competition. I'm talking about Shumatkar Sandu here, as I I love to hear his name. He may be working for the competition in MMA junkie, but deep down, we all know he is a hell wannabe at his core. This is a man who came up to me at UFC 148 wearing the Halwani nose t-shirt. So like I said, he may be on the other side,

but we know what's up. How are you doing, my friend? I'm very well. Dream come true to be here, but really is espionage. This feels like Degeneration X, you know, invading WWW all over again. I've got my wire clippers and some cord cutting. you'll be lucky to make the next week show, mate. Yeah, I bet, like, in a couple weeks,

M.A Junkie Radio is going to have all our stuff. I love those guys, and I'm a big fan of your work. You're doing great stuff as well, so it's great to have you in the studio. Thank you. I appreciate that. Good to be here. It's been amazing hanging out with the crew backstage.

It's just surreal to actually watch the show live from this spot. And, yeah, like Eric said, that Kimbo-Slicse interview. Whoever's going to transcribe that from the team, wow. Yes, very true. Sandu MMA is his Twitter handle. He's actually been tweeting some stuff, as I see here, from the show, so I appreciate that. Maybe it's him, you know, releasing our secrets to the world. I'm not quite sure, but it is good to have him here.

A hell wannabe, when it wasn't as cool to be a hellwana be, he did come up to me way back when. Fispo's and all with his Helwani nose shirt. Did you ask me for an autograph? I never went that far. Okay. I thought the T-shirt was enough. Yes, it was enough. Well, great to have you here.

Thank you. Okay, we got to answer some stuff. and I'm sure a lot of it is about Ronda and Holly, right? Almost all of it. Okay, good, because I was going to ask your take, but then... We'll get into it through the course of the questions. Okay, let's go. Honda's knockout of Ronda, is it the most famous K.O.?

Now, I'm qualifying this, the most famous, because we will hear about biggest upset, all that stuff, but is this the most recognizable, most famous KO in UFC history now? This person references KroKopp-Gonzaga as another, you know, I guess momentous kind of chaos, something that stood out. So I have actually broken this down into like three parts, and it's hard for me to sort of separate it all because I did say that GSP's loss to Matt Serra in my mind is still the biggest upset as far as like,

and I know what the question is, but as far as, you know, GSP was a dominant champion to a degree at that point. He still hadn't really like been, you know, on the streak that he ended up being on. But we thought and we knew that he was something special. And then you have Matt Serra, who was essentially cut from the UFC and then had to go on tough, win a reality show to get in this spot, which is unprecedented, and still hasn't happened again until this day. So he comes in there as a massive underdog and defeats GSP. He's got a height disadvantage or reach disadvantage, all stuff. So that still, to me, feels like the big subset.

But as far as, like, the most shocking, because not only did Holly home knock out Ronda Rousey, she took away, you know, it was E, it was E.A. sports, it was entourage. not to say that she stole it from her, but that's what Rhonda represented. Rhonda is a thousand times bigger than GSP was when they fought at UFC 69. And still two degrees. GSP's a big deal in Canada, but Rhonda represented all of that, and she was such a huge favorite going into the fight. And for Holly to go in there and perform at that level, considering how she performed in her first two fights,

and to rise to the occasion and put out the perfect game plan and execute it perfectly and just be on point the way she was, it was nothing short of remarkable. Remarkable isn't even a fair way to describe it. So considering who Rhonda is, considering all that she had done, considering all the attention that she received, this is the biggest knockout, this is the biggest upt. In that sense, it's bigger than T.J. Henan was just almost this creation by the UFC. We didn't know who Henan fought leading up to the UFC, and they really had to ram it down our throats that he was the pound for pound king. We knew who Rhonda was, we knew what she represented, and Holly just came in there and snatched it away from her. So that's why it's so impactful. impactful and so passionate for people. I have a little bit of, you know, pause when we talk about GSP and Hennon, you know, when we look back and speak about them retroactively, just because, you know, the idea that Henan Borough, you know, we didn't know who he was. I think we knew pretty well who he was and with the people he took out when he came to the UFC.

Who was, what I'm saying is you have to look at the baggage. And Hennon Burow was just, you know, he was a guy making, you know, what? he's getting like 200,000 pay-per-view buys or something? Yeah, but that doesn't come into the cage. No, but that's why this, you have to look at the impact, in my opinion. And that's why the trickle-down effect, the aftermath is just gigantic. It's the biggest aftermath we've ever seen. Let's look at this question specifically, the most famous.

Yes, because of all that. They will not be playing, you know, Henan Burrell getting knocked out by T.J. Dillashaw. No. On, you know, these various mainstream news sites, and they will be playing Rondorowski getting knocked out by Hollywood. Forever and ever and ever. So certainly it is one of the most famous, if not the most famous. And you know what's interesting also?

Holly, this media tour that she's been on, it's all the same stops. Not only did she take her belt. I think she was with Strahan and Kelly this morning. All the same stops. Maybe not Fallon. She's going to be on Seth Myers. But it's really, it's kind of eerie how she just like there really is a new queen in town. It's a perfect fit.

You know, we had Rhonda now. Let's have Holly. And kudos to them for doing that because I thought a lot of them would just jump off the bandwagon, the fact that they're interested in Holly is a nice sign. Okay, now let's talk about it in terms of an upset. Ashley, this person who submitted the question, says it's not even in the top 10. Where do you rank this on the all-time upset list? Okay, so we're not talking about the baggage and all that?

Yeah. We're just talking straight. I mean, to me, it's, I still put, if we're not talking about the impact and the aftermath, yes. This is in all of combat sports because they mentioned Douglas versus Tyson. So I don't feel, let's keep it MMA specific because I don't think that's fair. I think they'd, even they'd grant that it's in the top 10 in MMA. For sure.

Okay. Well, Douglas Tyson to me is still, you know, number one. Yeah. But I put it, it's GSP, Sarah, and then this is, it's the thing because, like, honestly, I feel like an idiot. I'm not going to do, you know, the Monday morning quarterback thing, but how didn't we see this coming? Well, you know what I mean? Given her resume, given her, her. her technique, given her camp, how did we all not see this coming?

I can give you a few reasons. Please. One, in her first two fights in the UFC, she did not look this good. True, true. But second fight, as we said on this show, she was unfairly criticized in my opinion. She didn't look this good. I was with you saying the same thing, but she didn't look this good. No.

And you can't assume she's going to advance or, you know, if we are to believe her team held back in those other two fights. you can't assume that she's going to advance to the level where she can neutralize Ronda Rousey's game. And I certainly didn't see it coming. I thought even though obviously Holly Holie Hohm had the striking edge, I never thought, you know, Ronda Rousey's boxing was anything. In fact, on this show, I've criticized it many times. I still thought her overall game and her ability to game plan would be enough that she'd be able to get a hold of Holly and take her to the ground and arm bar her. And I didn't think it was going to take particularly long. So I can't say, oh, how did I not see this coming?

Because I just thought she wouldn't be able to keep Rhonda's overall skills away. Now, certainly, Rhonda has to go back and fix some holes in her own game. But at the same time, we haven't seen Holly against, you know, Rhonda's strengths either. We haven't seen her. The very brief exchange we saw was a bit of a sloppy takedown. And credit to Holly, she was able to escape the ground game. I don't know if that's being fair to Holly, because, like, we've seen Rhonda in sloppy situations, like, look at the Katzangano situation. Sure. And Holly got out of it, you know, Holly even took her down briefly. All credit due to her. Yeah.

Well, it was a whole other thing. It was after getting rock. I think she was rocked and instinctively took her down. Which is pretty impressive. That's always the best way to do it. I mean, you know, Gustafson catches John Jones off guard in a similar way. So I guess I don't think it's fair to say, why didn't we see this coming? Because Ronda Rousey has been so good. And I think she's, still is very, very good, but she has things to fix up. In my opinion, it's in the top. I wouldn't, surely not over Sarah GSP. And I think what people are not understanding about Sarah GSP is where people, you know, aren't, aren't thinking about is that it's more about Sarah, the fact that, you know, he was the underdog of all underdogs, whereas Holm had a clear path to victory in this fight. If she could keep Ronda Rousey from grabbing her in, they were fighting on the feet, then likely

home was going to win that fight. Whereas Sarah, I don't think anybody was counting him, you know, was giving him a chance on the feet, in the grappling, anywhere. And he got it done. So that, for me, it will always be the MMA upset of the century. You know, Wydman over Anderson Silva's got to be up there. Although wasn't Wyatman a favorite at the end? In the first fight?

Yeah, wasn't he like either super close to being a favorite or an actual? Not as far as I recall. Wasn't it like two to one or something? Everyone was picking him. All the fighters were picking him. He was a popular pick. And the public money actually came in on Holly Home. If you paid attention to the betting line.

Well, those people were smart because if you want to look into this sort of thing, like all the stuff that she was dealing with leading up to the fight. And then her demeanor at the way in was just like, look at Holly's demeanor. She played it perfectly. And it seemed like Rhonda was trying to get in her head like the fake stuff and then the rant on Instagram. It's like this was a person who, in my opinion, was starting to doubt herself a little. bit. And even if you go back, and again, this is all hindsight. I mean, I wasn't smart enough to call this when it was happening. But if you actually, knowing what happened in the fight, go back

and rewatch everything, even the way Rhonda, the look on her face going down to that cage, and you compare it to the look against Bechkoheya and Kat and Alexis Davis is a different look. It's a different look on her face. There's, there appears to be some doubt there. And that continued to grow as the fight went on. So there were signs. And kudos to those people, including Holly's long-time agent Lenny Fresquez for actually putting his money where his mouth is. This guy, I swear to you, he told me the first time I met him that she would be the one to knock her off the first one. And he called it. Not only that, he bet on her and he won into the six figures. Crazy.

Unbelievably crazy. Huge upset, not the biggest of all time. How much credit for the win should belong to the game planning of Jackson and coaching of Winklejohn? Is that the first time the duo has ever coached against Ronda? All the little things Holly was doing, not wrong. wrapping her arm over Rhonda in the clinch, keeping her elbow tucked in tight to her side, backing up against the fence. This is from Farazza Hobbies' Excellent Fight Breakdown. I've never seen her do it before. It was textbook and pretty much took Rhonda out of her game

for the first time in her career. When she could not clinch and get it to the ground, Rhonda looked horribly out of her element like a one-trick judo pony eating punches on every exchange. Holly executed the plan, but man, what a plan. Hats off to those coaches. So I guess, do you think a lot of this was due to the game plan of her team? Okay, so. How much credit do you give to that. They worked with Sarah Kaufman when she fought Rhonda in Strike Force, but Sarah isn't there every single day at Jackson Wink in Albuquerque, and even Greg. Greg talked to me before the fight and said that he didn't have as much data to work with leading up to that one because Rhonda was relatively new to the game. Now, going into this fight, they have a ton of data, obviously,

and Holly is a homegrown talent. I mean, she walked into that gym as a teenager, and we've heard the story countless times now. She's been working with Winkle John in particular for, you know, what, like almost two decades at this point, and they've won multiple championships in boxing, and now here they are, you know, they made that transition and even, you know, even did kickboxing as well. To me, it was just, look, like, you can just see the little things that they do. I mean, as far as game planning, I actually had the opportunity to spend some time with Greg and, and, and Coach Wink in Albuquerque when I was there, and even to a degree in New Mexico, excuse me, in Australia.

To say that they are brilliant minds when it comes to combat sports, truthfully, is a huge understatement. Like, they were talking to me about the fight off the record, about certain things. And I was like, that's why I don't even like to weigh in on this stuff. I mean, I can't even touch them. It's not even fair for me to talk.

Like, they must sit and listen to our breakdowns and stuff and laugh in our faces. They are on a whole different playing field. And even little things like throwing out whatever Travis Brown meant, whatever that code meant, which he won't tell us. He claims he held back in the two previous. Little things like not even talking in the corner.

He's whispering in her ear. You notice that? You can't hear what Winkle John is saying in the corner. Or he covers his microphone. Like that kind of gamesmanship just tells you to me that they're just, they're thinking about everything, and they have that connection with their fighter. They've been with her since day one. They know.

Holly told me that when Greg walked into her room, Sunday morning, so this is the day of the fight in Australia. He's like, all right, well, let's go beat up some girl today. That was it. And that, in her mind, just took away all the pressure. It made her calm down. It's just another day. And I asked him, you know, would you do that for everyone?

Like, do you do that for John Jones? No, no, no, you have to know Holly. You have to know how she reacts. Like, you look at Holly walking into that fight. She's shaking and she's getting emotional. Look at her as she's walking. She's an emotional person. She cries a lot.

She talked about that as well. They know how to handle her. They know what to say to her. They know how to game plan. They know how to test. They're a fascinating duo. And Izzy as well, he deserves a ton of credit for her takedowns and takedown defense, more importantly.

So, you know, I don't like to answer this question, they are brilliant minds. It's hard to bet against them in a situation like this. And, you know, they had some data in their back pocket with the Saracophan fight, but this was different. They've been preparing for this one for a long time, and all the stars align. It was pretty beautiful.

Okay. or this is a quickfire one regarding Rhonda. If she didn't have any distractions from her personal life and in Hollywood, would the outcome of the fight have been different? Does she need to rethink her training camp, mainly her head coach Edmund? And she can easily retire, so should she? Well, I don't think she's going to retire because let's not forget. She has suffered setbacks before in her personal life.

And let's just talk about her athletic career. I mean, the Olympics huge, huge setback. And she rebounded and then some. She became who she is today. So I think we will see her again. I feel fairly confident we will see her again. But, hey, you never know. That's just my guess.

And as far as the other stuff is concerned, like, it's very hard for any of us to truly say because she certainly didn't let on. But, you know, there were, again, there were some clues. You know, the conference call thing, the incident with her mother and the interview, you know, the reports about Edmund, the behavior at the way in. There were some clues there. that there was a lot on our mind, and who can blame her? There's a lot going on.

People criticize Mike Goldberg for when he said, it's tiring being a rock star or something like that in the fight, and I agree that in that moment it had nothing to do with anything, but the point is still very valid. It's got to be, and she will never make that excuse. I don't think she doesn't strike me as the type, and I don't think anyone's going to make it for her, but there's a lot going on,

and times have changed for Ronda Rousey, and it really changed after the Bechkoheya fight. Not even leading up to the Bechkoia fight. It was really after the Bechkoia fight. was really after the Bechkoia fight, in my opinion, that she exploded, maybe that month before and then afterwards. So she comes back quickly, all this stuff. It has to play.

It has to play. But can I sit here and say the fight would be different? I don't know. Because, you know, once you get punched in the face, all that stuff goes away. Was she maybe not, you know, 100% prepared? Was, who knows? But, you know, on that night, the better fighter won. And the more prepared fighter, you know, she just had a better game plan.

And she fought her perfectly. I can't think of even the Dill Shoehaw fight, like Dill Shoehaw punched Brown in the face and that changed the course of the fight. But can you recall someone, you know, just executing like that? It was just unbelievable. It was, it was, I'm, I'm in awe, I'm still in awe. That's why I needed this show to kind of decompress from it all. And I couldn't do that this weekend.

I'm in awe of how she rose to the occasion on the biggest stage possible. It wasn't just some show in Las Vegas, it was about 56,000 people in the morning in Melbourne. That's crazy, unbelievable. Very impressive. given everything that happened in the lead-up to the fight, couple with some questionable coaching advice between rounds. Do you expect Ronda will continue to work with Edmund? Again, I don't think it's fair to criticize him for that corner talk

because I really think that he was rounding the corner corner of the corner. He was calming her down, and maybe he should have said beautiful, beautiful, because that was obviously wrong. She just lost the first round of her career. But until we listen to that, have you listened to it? Like the corner audio? No. Yeah, I mean, you can criticize.

Look, you can criticize them for the game plan. You could say that, you know, Edmund's resume with other UFC fighters now isn't stellar at all. I mean, all that is fair game, but that particular critique is, to me, a little bit far-fetched. So, you know, would it serve her well? Look, you know, Ronda's mom said something very interesting leading up to the fight in that infamous interview now with, I believe it's called Latination. She said, this is like a pitcher who's, you know, tossing a no-hirt. hitter and you don't want to mess anything up. Well, now the no hitter has been broken up. So what's you going to do? There's a lot going on there. Clearly, you don't have to be a rocket

scientist to figure that out. So how does she react? And, you know, the outcomes of those other fighters who have worked with Edmund, it's not good. So, but I mean, I can't, I can't say that she should change her, this and that. I mean, who the hell am I? Yeah. I think it's going to be interesting. I mean, it's going to either be, you know, a huge indictment on Edmund, if she's leaves or it's going to be huge support in his favor if she stays. It's one of the more interesting stories right now in MMA. Her rebound, but really, like, where did she go from here? She's at that crossroads right now.

All of a sudden, she went from, like, top of the mound and all that. She's Yogi Berra with the fork in the road, right? Is she going to take it? Bang. Nailed it. You get a reprieve, and you did well. Ronda's disappearance. We touched on this a little bit earlier.

Do you think Ronda disappearing from the face of the earth after the fight, except for the short Instagram post is a good or bad thing. And then they say something about never hearing of the Mexican wave. Yeah. What? Have you heard of it? I heard of the wave. I heard of the actually...

Is it not just the wave? So when I did the post-fight show with the submission radio guys, who, by the way, were fantastic, and I don't know if it's their doing, but our post-fight video has over a million views. I think it's more of the Ronda effect and the magnitude of this knockout. But they're inside... Damn, we to bury them. Well, no, I mean, it had nothing to do with me.

I just think it was like, oh, UFC 1023 Post-Fite show, I'm going to click on it. Look, I mean, just look at what our other post-fight shows do. But, but their work is stellar. They're a part of the family at SB Nation. Their interviews are great. They have great energy, great insight. I definitely suggest, as I said, on the clips, to check out their stuff. Just go submission radio on YouTube.

So they were telling me, so we were talking about the crowd and how they were a little bit dead, and it was a little disappointing. And they said that they even broke out of the Mexican wave. And I said, what's the Mexican wave? Oh, it's just like the wave, you know, that he was doing it. And I was like, oh, that's the wave. I never heard of the term Mexican wave. To me, it actually kind of sounds a little bit, you know, a little not so politically correct.

Have you heard of the Mexican wave? I've not, but I mean, I'm not from an area that would have called it that, I guess. No, but everyone was giving me crap for that. You never heard of the Mexican way? Of course I know what a wave is, but I just never heard of the Mexican. I guess it's called the Mexican wave? I think maybe in that corner of the world, maybe in Europe as well, but certainly not here in America. It's just a wave.

Ronda disappearing from, from, from, public eye. I have no problem with what she did at TMZ on TMZ because look, she didn't agree to that. They're sticking a camera in her face and she's obviously broken up about it. She's very passionate. Would it be awesome if she walked out with her head held high and said, I'll be back and I'm going to show all of you? Yeah. But who the hell are we to criticize the way she's handling a loss coming off that long-ass flight? Trust me, I know. It's a long-ass flight. So, you know what? Cut her some slack. The whole thing was a little creepy too and say, Rhonda's ashamed of her face. Whatever. The one thing I will say, though, is, so look, after the fight, she stood there and, you know, they embraced, she didn't spin her face.

She didn't run out of the cage like we've seen before. She stood there and embraced her. Would it have been nice to get a post-fight interview? Sure, but also, look at her lip. She had to get serious surgery there. They have to bring in a plastic surgeon to fix up her lip. So her lip was open the entire fight. You could tell her that it was hurting her, whatever.

So she didn't do a post-fight interview with Rogan. Fine. People are giving her crap for not showing up to the press conference. And I hate to sound like I'm actually here, like, defending her. her. She doesn't need me to defend her, but she was in the freaking hospital. You don't think she was concussed? Her head bounced off the mat. Like, we've seen people not show up to the press conference. Did we criticize Anderson Silva for not showing up to the press conference when his leg broke? No. The one thing I will criticize her for, though, is the Instagram post because

she put something out there. And she had to put something out there. Fine. It would have been nice to say, congratulations, Holly Holme. Great fight. It was an honor, whatever. I look forward to meeting you again. Something like that. But no tip of the cap to your opponent. To me, I would have done it a little differently. But hey, it's super emotional. But is that even out of character for Rhonda?

Well, that's the thing I heard from a lot of people. Like, look at the way that she reacted to other opponents. First of all, if you look at her other fights, you know, when there's no beef there, like she's like the Katzangano fight, she was very, you know, she went over to her. She was almost like bashful in the post-fight press conference. Yeah, with Bech, with Misha. it's personal. It's personal.

But I kind of respect that. How quickly we forget, when we were in Vegas for UFC 168, she was booed out of the building. She was booed out of the building. She was the heel, right? She didn't shake Misha's hand. And now everyone's like, oh, the darling.

Is that like, how quickly will you forget that everyone hated her? And then she got everyone to love her again. And now everyone, I guess, is happy that she stumbled and all that. So, you know, this is who she is. Let her be who she is. But if you're asking me from a PR perspective, what's the one major misstep in all this? In that one little Instagram post, a nice line, congratulations Holly, would have been perfect, in my opinion. I think it sells a rematch better.

Nah, in the moment, you know, it would, I don't know. I think, in my opinion, Ronda's being Ronda, and I don't think that that's necessarily a bad thing. It all sells the way. Yes, absolutely. Like, that line doesn't make or break the rematch. It doesn't add, but if you're asking me like... People will remember it. People have noticed it and people will remember, hey, remember when she lost and she didn't say.

It's like the touching of the gloves. Lady Gaga is saying, serves her right. People will remember these things. Yes, but that's all part of the brilliance. You get that, right? That's what I'm saying. Yes, yes, you're saying she should have? I'm saying no, no, no.

But if you're asking me, like, I'm bringing this up at the three hour and 30 minute market, this is not a big deal. If you ask me if there's one thing that I'm going to critique. But this is, again, the thing, like, the fact that you hate her so much for not touching gloves is part of the brilliance. It's good for Holly. It's good for her. We have to get over this idea that martial arts and it's like the respect and all that. This is the freaking fight game. This is prize fighting.

We want to care. We want to get you to pay $60 to watch these people fight or pay $3,000 to watch them in person. Again, not crapping on the people in Monterey, but like is anyone up in arms over the fact that Kelvin was, you know, a loss of controversy? No, we move on to the next one. But they're freaking going nuts because Rhonda, who didn't touch gloves, got her ass whooped, right? Why? It's because she made you care. Recognize that.

You get what I'm saying? Of course I get what you're saying. She's an unbelievable citizen. Don't post a congratulations stand. Fine, don't post. You ask me the damn question. There you go. Rousey versus Home,

Rousy versus Cyborg, now that we've seen Rhonda go up against an elite striker, does this change your opinion on how she would match up with Cyborg? Rousy was clearly outmatched on the feet against Home, and I don't see it being much different against Cyborg. Everyone knows that Cyborg would be one of our toughest matches.

but now that Holm has defeated her, imagine the striking of home mixed with the power of Cyborg. So are you still interested in Rousie v. Cyborg? Yes. After seeing Rousey versus Holm. Yes. I am interested because, as I've said, countless times, losses don't mean as much in MMA as they do.

Like, I didn't, I felt like in the moment, the Pachial-Mayweather fight lost a bit, but look, I mean, once the fight came around, I was eating it up like everyone. And that was five years later, so time did heal those wounds. I would buy Ronda versus Cyborg tomorrow. Ronda, the comeback alone is interesting,

and this beef is interesting, and Cyborg at 135 is interesting. Speaking of Cyborg, she tweeted 26 minutes ago to both Invicta and Cindy Dandwa. It was not signed any agreement about this fight at 140. It's been three times that they are changing the date of the event. So it sounds like that saga is going to continue. But it doesn't, it makes me think,

You know, like, look, I don't think, I don't think Holly is, I don't think Cyborg is as technical as a cyborg. Cyborg is more ruthless, you know what I mean? But it makes me think, okay, Ronda isn't the invincible athlete that we may have thought she was. And it's good that we think that way because no one is invincible. I still want to see the fight. And I don't really know what to make of Ronda at this point, you know, did that self-affect her? Is she with the wrong camp? Did she, you know, does she need to grow?

does she need to evolve as a fighter? And by doing so, does she need to go to another camp? Like, all this stuff, I'm super, I think the next fight is really going to tell us a lot about her. Did Holly Holm just kill women's MMA? What? Holly Holm had the best performance I've seen in recent memory in the title fight. The matchup, the style matchup in retrospect was perfect. The game plan as well.

And apparently, she was holding back in previous fights and unleashed against Ronda. But did she really? Do you think Holmes going to keep fighting a very exciting style? Or was that a perfect match for Holly to showcase her skills? and we should expect her to fight, her fights to be dominant but boring to a lot of fans. I don't think, you know, I don't think that's very fair. She certainly didn't kill women's animation.

She didn't kill the UFC. She didn't kill MMA. I can't wait for the day where one of these big fights happens and, you know, something crazy happens. And then all these hot takes about the death of MMA come out of the woodwork. It's not dying. You know, it goes through ups and downs. Look at the year that the UFC has had with all this craziness.

The Anderson and John Jones and Nick Diaz. has, no GSP. And look at the year that they've had. And it's not even over. And they're expecting another big one in three weeks. So it's not going anywhere. And women's MMA is not going anywhere. And the Ronda comeback is great.

Now, if Ronda leaves, it will suffer. There's no doubt about it. But I don't think she's leaving just yet. She's always talked about leaving at some point. The media loves Holly. I mean, there's a reason why she's all over these, you know, mainstream shows, Extra and Kelly, blah, blah, blah. They love her.

So she's a different kind of cat. She's a different kind of personality. different kind of interview. But right now, I think everyone's embracing her, and I think that rematch will be even bigger. Speaking of bigger, U.S. 94, or U.S.C.193 in terms of pay-rate? Which one? Damn it. Well, at this point, I'm going to go with 193 just based off of what Meltzer is reporting. I think, if I recall, he's reporting like 1.1, 1.2. And you don't think that because of this swell of interest in the UFC, that... that 194 could potentially even eclipse that.

It could. There's also the argument to be made that a lot of people paid for this, and who knows if they bought Cotto Canelo the following week, so is there that disposable income? And also, I think that Ronda attracts the non-UFC fan as well. Sure.

Even though this card may be better. Yeah, yeah. So right now, if I had to pick one, I go with 193. And by the way, three weeks ago, I'm not saying that. That's how crazy this whole thing is. Who saw this coming?

Neil Magne. He's 9 and 1 in his last 10 fights in the last two years. His most recent wins against Eric Silva and Kelvin Gastilum were split decision wins. So what now? He has a great record, but do you think his most recent wins show that he may not be ready for the top of the weight class? Basically, are you impressed with Neil Magny and his last two years of fighting? Very impressed. How can you not be?

This is the guy who started, I think he was 0-2 in the UFC. Just kind of like a guy. on tough and look what he's become. Certainly I didn't see this coming after tough. Hell no. And look what he did against Kelvin Gaslam. And I think, who is it? Was it, it was Brian Sand? At this point, I don't remember. I think it was Brian that said it at the beginning of the show. Like, I expected Kelvin to come out strong and then, you know, maybe fade as opposed to the opposite. Right. Especially in a five-round fight. So Magny is a tough out, man. He is long. He's good off his back. I mean, he understands how to use his length. And he's durable, man. This guy's taking some shots and he keeps on coming.

And he steps in on short notice every time. Steps in on short notice. So you know the UFC loves him. I actually think that's one of those fights where both guys came out looking good. Like Gassim got the weight cut out of the way. He looked good. He was on point. He made a comeback.

He didn't quit. Went five rounds. And Magnet takes a fight on short notice in Mexico against Gasselm, wins the fight. I mean, it's really one of those where I don't feel too bad about either. Gassim is still super young working with Cordero now for just a brief amount of time. I feel like it's one of those where both. of their stocks went up. What you do with Magnu next?

Let me go to my trusty rankings here. We've got that fight card in Korea coming up. Maybe he could do the winner of... Oh, no, no, no, no. He could. I believe he probably would if asked, but what about the winner of the main event or even stun gun,

the winner of stun gun and waters? Well, I'm very curious to see what happens with Benson, because a lot of talk out there, I mean, this is the last fight on his contract. So a lot of talk, you know, does he come back? Who knows? I think that's a very interesting story to watch after this fight. Mazvedal is definitely out there.

You know, Rick's story is coming back. He had neck surgery. He's coming back. He's still number 10. I think that's super interesting. Wonderboy Thompson and number eight is super interesting. So there's a lot of good fights for him. And, you know, Matt Brown coming back.

No, but isn't Matt Brown his teammate? That's who he stepped in for. That's right. That's right. That's right. But stun gun as well. Stung gun as well. He's fighting Dominic Waters.

I interviewed him. at Albuquerque, at Jackson Wink as well. What are your thoughts on Henry Sohudo's performance against UCA for Miga with the win? Should he now be next in line for the title shot? 100% he should. This is the guy. This is the best fight to promote. It's the most interesting fight.

There's really no one else out there who makes sense. It was a tough win. It was a gritty win, durable win. I'm not going to sit here and say he has no shot, especially after Holly Holme and her victory. So do I favor DJ? Absolutely. I think DJ's on, you know, he's playing on a whole other level, really, than almost everyone in the sport, except for a couple people.

But Sohudo's the guy. It has to be Sohudo. Has to be. He's going to sell the fight. DJ's been missing this kind of opponent and test, the Olympics, all that stuff. I mean, he comes with a pretty solid resume in his back pocket. So, yeah, 1,000%. Somebody asked this, but just to summarize, do you think 125 needs a shakeup?

As far as DJ losing? Yeah. No, I don't think so. I like dominant champs. Like I don't think it's something to celebrate when one loses. It's fun. It's exciting. It's fresh. Awesome. But I don't think it's a bad thing as well. To me, it's fun to watch greatness. It's like the Golden State Warriors, 15 and 0.

Yeah, but every time we've had one of these shakeups, it's, I mean, think just as recently as Rhonda and Holly Holm. How many new matchups are you excited for in that division? Same thing with 135. Same thing with now Connor McGregor if he upsets Josie Aldo. Or rather, actually, he's the favorite, so forgive me for that. I think we should have that discussion after Sehudo. Fair enough, because that's one that I really want to see.

True or false? We're going to Twitter now. Jackson Winkle, John, will have three reigning champs at some point during 2016. Well, it could be false. They could have four. I think that's true, that. They could have Holly Home. Yep.

They could have Carlos Condit. Yep. They can have Donald Soroni. Yep. They can have John Jones. And, oh, by the way, our... Arlofsky or Overeem. And now the question is asking you how many will actually be?

They could have five. How many are they going to have? Honestly, the tough one to, like, if we were talking about this two weeks ago, the one you'd say, like, well, the toughest one is Holly. They got that one out of the way, right? Carlos beating Robbie, that's not the craziest thing in the world. John beating Daniels. Not the craziest thing in the world.

Seroni being RDA, not the craziest thing in the world, right? They got the tough one out of the way. It's amazing how they went from no champions to, by this, you know, By April 24th, they can have four champions. Crazy. I mean, I think John Jones at this point is, you know, as long as he's got his head on, right, that's a pretty safe assumption. Condit's definitely live against Robbie there. So is Cowboy.

You're right. The hard one is down. So it's going to be interesting for that camp. Will Rhonda's next fight with Holly Sell more? Let's say they did the rematch. Is it bigger? Well, I'm going to assume it's going to be at U.S. UFC 200, that's what they want.

So if so, yes. Because they'll get the UFC 200 rub and this rub, the rematch rub. To go back a little bit, what's next for Mark Hunt? Let's go back to Australia. Mark Hunt, Mark Hunt, Mark Hunt. Picked up a huge victory, knocked out Bigfoot Silva. Well, if Overeem wins, that would be fun. Even if JDS wins, that'd be fun.

It has to be someone in this time frame. There's no one really else. Jared Rochalt. I don't know if I want to see that. So I'll go with the winner of Overeem JDS. That's it. That's it for today. Okay, I'm running out of time.

I got to go, but I have to explain why we weren't here last week. So tomorrow on MMAfighting.com, everyone loves the walk-and-talks. It'll be a day in Albuquerque with John Jones. An exclusive interview with John Jones as we talk about everything from the accident, the arrest, the suspension, taking away the belt, the time away, the return, the Vitor Belfort, the UFC, Alexander Gustafin, all that, and then some maybe one of the proudest pieces that we put together. I'm very excited to share it with the world. I'm very thankful that John Jones would speak to us last week.

I was told that he would only talk to us last Wednesday, and I tried to finagle my way to change it and go on Thursday so I could do the show, but I couldn't. They said it was Wednesday, and I had to play by those rules. So I went. I was home for 20 hours after the long trip. I changed my bag, said hi and goodbye to my family, and went to Albuquerque and almost missed it because of my connection. That's a different story for a different day.

But we got to spend the whole day with him, went to a couple of schools with him, and you'll see that as well. A fascinating guy, and he appears to be a much different guy, and it's a different John Jones. You'll see it without giving away too much. he appears to be in a great place and he really was very honest and truthful and it was a true honor to get to do that first interview an interview that I had been working to get for since May

so for like six months. A long journey and I'm excited to get it out there. So tomorrow morning, MMAFighting.com, we'll have a day in Albuquerque with John Jones shot last Wednesday over in Albuquerque, New Mexico. I think, as I said to a lot of you, I hated missing the show, but this one, this one had to be done.

And on top of that, at the gym, we got interviews with Carlos Condit, Overeem, Arlofski, Dominic Waters, Michelle Waters, John Dotson, those interviews coming out later on in the week and next week as well on. And M.Mafighton.com. So we hopefully we'll make it up to you and you forgive me and we're all good and we got to get 193 out of our system. And now we can move on with our lives. And that's a good thing. And now you can hit my music. Woo! Good to be back.

I miss this show so much. I miss doing this show so much because it's the one place where I truly feel like I can just be myself. And we can talk and I can have fun. And I can view with my guys. And it's just, it's trust me when I tell you, you can give me crap, but that's fine. I know you miss the show.

But trust me when I tell you, I miss it more, I miss it more than any of you. And so I'm so happy that people need us and get excited when the show is on and miss us. I don't do it on purpose. We had a good reason. you recognize now that it was a good reason. Anyway, great to be back.

Great to have all of you back in my life. Great to have the MMA hour back in my life. Thank you so much to Brian Stan for stopping by. Enjoy his insight as always. Thank you very much to Jeff Grammer. That was great stuff from the Albuquerque POV. Thank you very much to Hafeel Cordero. Good luck to him.

Big fights coming up for the guys over at Kings and congratulations on the anniversary. Thank you very much to Ben Ascran. Best of luck to him. Thank you very much to Punkass of Tap Out Fame. And go check out that documentary. You know, we talk about the evolution of the sport, the growth of the sport. I mean, that one has it all. And it's very important for us to remember that as the sport gets bigger and bigger.

So obviously, rest and peace to Charles Masclose. It was very nice to me every time I met him. A huge, huge influence on the sport and a major player in the sports history. Thank you very much to Kimbo-Slice and Mike Inber. Great stuff. Thank you very much to Shannon Knapp. And thank you very much to Michael Bisping. Check out his radio show every Thursday on Series.

X-M. Back next week, same time and place. If you missed anything, check it out, iTunes, Stitcher, all that good stuff and more until they say, peace. I'm out of here. Sacks Fifth Avenue makes it easy to holiday your way, whether it's finding the right gift or the right outfit. Sacks is where you can find everything. From the perfect Chloe bag for your hard-to-shop for a sister to a prodig jacket for a fancy holiday dinner. And if you don't know where to start, Sacks.com is customized to your personal style so you can save time shopping. Make shopping fun and easy this season and find gifts and inspiration to suit your holiday style at Saks Fifth Avenue. Support for this show comes from Odu.

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