MMA Fighting - The MMA Hour with Ariel Helwani - Episode 307

Episode Date: November 30, 2015

Ariel Helwani speaks to Georges St-Pierre, Mirko Cro Cop, Daniel Cormier, Josh Barnett, Cathal Pendred, Rico Verhoeven, and Malki Kawa. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hogan, everyone, I'm Mario Hawwani. Inside our New York City studio, it is so great to be here with you on another Monday. And what a difference a week makes. Last Monday, around this time, I was sweating things out. There was a whole lot of craziness going on back here this week. And I won't get too into that, but this week I'll just say, whew, it's a much calmer host that you're looking at right now. A much more relaxed, less stressed host on this Monday, November 30th.

I'm so happy to be doing another show. We are coming off a relatively quiet Thanksgiving weekend here in the United States. I hope if you do celebrate that very nice holiday with no religious strings attached, that you had a happy and healthy one with your loved ones. for your family and friends. There was a UFC event in Seoul. The big news for us last week, of course, was the John Jones interview coming out.

Thank you so very much for all the great feedback. Wow. That was pretty much overwhelming. I mean, we worked on that a long time, tried a long time to get it. It was a roller coaster ride of emotions, but for it to finally come out and be received the way it was, for the most part, was very gratifying.

And I can't thank you enough to all the people who wrote to us with feedback, nice comments. Really, really, really, really, really means the world. So thank you so very much. If you haven't seen it, check it out. We'll be talking about it today. And, you know, I thought it was a great week for our site. You know, Sean Al-Shadi's story on Jose Al-Do. That was fantastic.

We just had a lot of good stuff. It really feels like coming into the end of the year, we're firing on all cylinders, as they say. So, Ken, thank you enough for your support. And we got a great show. Let's get right into it. One of our most stacked shows in recent memory, it is 300-esque, in my opinion. I mean, this is one that, wow, super excited about this one. And I know there was an event on Saturday, Saturday morning.

If I can have every UFC event from 8 a.m. to 10 a.m. Eastern time on a Saturday morning, I would be the happiest Eminem-M-A journalist. And I'm not complaining. I know people don't like to hear journalists of any kind complain. But it's just what a pleasure it is to be watching that stuff, you know, while eating breakfast with your kids. It's like the adult version of Saturday morning cartoons. Of course, the big news, Benson-Henerson defeating Jorge Mazvedal. He is now a free agent.

Of course, UFC has an exclusive negotiation slash matching period, so it's going to get interesting. But this is a fascinating story on many fronts, and it's one we'll talk about this week, and I'm sure we'll be talking about it for weeks to come, because this kind of story doesn't often materialize in MMA, good or bad. I think it's good in the sense that this is a normal part of sports. This is something that should happen. It's part of the evolution of MMA. It shows that things are moving in the right direction. And I think even if you're a member of the UFC, you will agree with that. But we'll get into why it really is a good thing, in my opinion, in a little bit. For now, let's run through today's show. Let's get you caught up and let's get right into things.

Round 350 will take your questions and comments. The Holly Home Mania has quieted down a little bit. Her media tour is over, but she's in sports. Illustrated, I mean, it's really unbelievable what's happened to Holly Home, but still the aftershocks of 193 still sort of trickling out, although I think we're all sort of now looking forward to 194 in that insane weekend in Las Vegas. In any event, hit us up. You know how. At 3.30, we're going to talk to glory heavyweight champion. That's glory kickboxing heavyweight champion, RICO Verhoeven. He returns to action on Friday, and it's a very interesting time to talk to him. He just had his MMA debut. He's a training partner of the now new boxing heavyweight champion, Tyson Fury,

who defeated Vladimir Klitsko Saturday in Dusseldorf, Germany. What a moment that was, and even better was his singing after the fact. So we'll talk to Rico at around 3.30. 245, we're going to talk to Mirko Kroko. Mirko Kroko stopping by to talk about his retirement, the failed drug test. How exciting is this to talk to the legend that is Mirko Filipovich? 225, speaking of legends, arguably, you know, the greatest ever. George St. Pierre, 225, he'll stop by to catch us up on where he's at in his career and some other hot topics. 205, Josh Barnett will stop by to preview his UFC on Fox 18 fight against Ben Rothwell, 145 will talk to Carl Pendred, who somewhat surprisingly retired late last week.

125 will talk to Daniel Cormier to get his take on John Jones and other matters related to their highly anticipated light heavyweight title rematch. But first, let us go to the Skype machine and welcome in John Jones's manager. And he is the manager to not only John Jones, but many others as well. Am I interrupting Hugh Malky? You seem to be very busy over there. What's going on? Oh, no, I got your buddy here, though. Remember this guy?

I don't remember this man. A translator. Oh, yes. Yes. Yeah. So I... What happened there? He's talking about Yo-L a little bit.

We had to get the approval for his fight with the commission, so he was your translating and stuff. And I was like, hey, stick around. I got your buddy coming on in a second. And, of course, we're talking to Malki Kawa, first-round management from Florida. Yes. What was his name again? I forget his name.

now he's leaving. It gets hot under the lights, doesn't it? Bean, it's being, but he's on the phone with you all right now. Oh, okay. Fair enough. Yes, he was probably the greatest translator we've ever had on this show. Just kidding. All right, Malki, let's talk.

Much of disgust with you, as always. But let's talk about Benson Henderson first. Huge fight for him on Saturday and Seoul. Actually, it was an interesting one for you and your management team because you also represent Mazvedal. You also represent Tiago Alves. That was his original opponent. he pulls out. We'll get to that in a second.

So it's Masvedal versus Benson. Benson wins, and now he's a free agent. Is he going to resign with the UFC? Where do we stand? I don't know yet. We're going to find that out pretty soon, I think. I mean, we've got to fill the offers. We've got to look at what everyone's looking. I mean, right now we can only deal with the UFC.

So we've got to look at that first. You know, Benson's obviously got some ideas in his head. And, you know, once we see where the UFC is at, and hopefully they're, you know, close to what he wants or at where he wants. And if that's the case, then I think he'll stay at the UFC. If it's not, then he's probably going to end up testing the free agency and testing the waters out there to see what's going on. How long is there exclusive negotiation slash matching period?

That's about 90 days. I mean, they've got some time in there to negotiate. I mean, they've got an exclusive period to negotiate, and then we can go get some offers, and then they've got a right to match. So, I mean, they've got some time in there. But I don't think it's going to be one of those type of drawn-out processes. I mean, I think they're going to, you know, we're going to sit down and talk about it, so we'll put some stuff the thing. They've always treated me, you know, with a lot of respect. You know, I've done a lot of business with them and a lot of different guys.

And none of it really gets this public as far as free agency and stuff like that. But I've had other guys go to the last fight on their contract and stuff like that where fighters sometimes chose to take the deals when, you know, we said not to. Or, you know, they stop guys from necessarily, you know, giving guys, you know, good deals going on right when they're about to go into free agency type of things. So, I mean, you know, I just think that what's going to happen is they'll put a good, you know, they'll listen to us to hear what we got to say, take, you know, what we're saying, and then look at it, come back with something, and we'll either say, yeah, or a, hey, go back and forth maybe for a little bit,

and then they'll say, hey, listen, 90 days, we don't necessarily need it. Go and get yourself some offers and let's see what's going. They might do that right off the back. Hey, go see what he's got and what he can get it, and then let's take a look at it, let's take a look at it, and go from there. It's interesting that you say that because this thing is common in every other sport. You know, guys contract, it expires, they become a free agent. This is common.

It doesn't mean that you're not a team player, that you're not loyal to your current team. I mean, it's just a part of being an athlete. You want to test the waters. This is what many athletes in the past have fought for so that today's athlete can go and get what he's or she's ultimately worth. But it doesn't often happen this way, especially in the UFC. Like usually with a fight left, they'll try to resign you. And more often than not, they get the deal done.

Why didn't that happen with Benson? Benson didn't want to talk about a deal until his contract was over. He made that clear, you know, two fights ago. He just three fights ago maybe. And he was just like, you know what, let me find my contract out. So he, you know, took all the fights he can and spent up his problems. a little bit and was a big time team player stepping in numerous times to you know for when guys were injured and offered you know to step in many times when you know other guys were injured

and you know I just think that he just wanted to be a free agent and really just take a look at he just didn't want to start talking numbers or extending contracts until he really you know looked at you know what he could possibly be worth so did they try to resign him beforehand um I mean we you know we had conversations with them as this contract came to an end I think they were open to it but Ben wasn't open to it so it was more Ben, it just was like, you know, let me get through my contract. So, you know what I mean? It was, it was, we never really got to the numbers or anything to that effect. It was just kind of like, hey, look, we got to talk about Ben.

We're like, Ben doesn't want to talk. So let's just chill until, you know what I mean? He finished his fighting, and then we'll sit down and talk after that. He doesn't want the distraction of a contract right now at this point. A, a lot of people are comparing this to the Phil Davis situation. I think it's very different. A, Benson's a former champion in two organizations owned by Zufa. He's coming off a win now. And from what I gather, they never really offered Phil Davis. a contract. Are they interested from what you gather in resigning him? I mean, we'll go right away. I mean, I think you would be crazy not to be interested in Ben.

I think Ben is a great fighter. I don't think that anybody, you know, you've got to look at all of Ben's since he won the belt and up until now. How many fights has he not headlined since he lost the belt? I think it's like 11 of 12 or something. Headlines. So how can you know, this guy's obviously, you know, bringing in the numbers is obviously somebody that you can put on your Fox shows. He can headline a pay-per-view in big fights. I mean, he's a guy that does it. He's a company guy, does everything that they ask of you.

At the end of the ask of him, I mean, so at the end of the day, I don't know why you wouldn't be interested in a guy like Ben Henderson. But I can tell you that if you have the organization out there's interested in him. So, I mean, that, you know, you never know what you're doing. But at the end of the day, I have to assume those are very smart guys. They're not a four-chering who owns a record in that division for the most title defense alongside a legend in BJ Penn to just, you know, walk away without at least trying to sign him.

I don't think that's something that's just going to happen like that. I don't anticipate that. After his fight, he removed his gloves and appeared to leave them in the cage. Some people said he took them out, but he did take off the gloves, which is somewhat symbolic.

Why was he doing that? Why did he decide to do that? Do you have any idea? I don't know. Yeah, everybody's from to get back into town and I'll talk to him against him. I didn't go to the fight, so I don't know. And I haven't got a hold of my brother who was there,

so I'll find it out tonight when they land. So we'll see. He also said, you know, Was that impressive enough to warrant facing off with you? Who was he talking to there? What was that all about? I have no idea.

Come on. I don't believe you. I don't believe you. I promise you, I don't know. I mean, listen, you know, there's a bunch of guys who like to fight. There's guys who obviously, you know, you got a number of Twitter. I'm not necessarily on top of every Twitter B for comments somebody makes back and forth. Guys don't call me and say, hey, did you see this guy said this about me?

So he could have been mentioning anybody that had ever said something to him. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know. It could be George St. Pierre. It could have been Dana. it could have been, you know, other organizations. I could be whoever, I don't know. Like I said, when I talk to him tonight, you know, I'll find out right away.

And so you might get a text message with that for your UFC tomorrow night, whatever it is. You can say it. Okay, fair enough. One last thing on Benson. What does your gut tell you? Because he said, I will retire in the UFC, but I'm still going to test the waters. Maybe he thinks he'll go for a little, you know, tour of the other promotions. What do you think happens with him next?

You know, Ben's, you know, it's funny because Ben's that guy that, I don't know that money necessarily is the motivating factor, but I know it is. Does that make sense? If the UFC came in with something that made sense and somebody else came with just a lot of money, I don't know that he just turned down a lot of money now that he has a kid and a lot.

But at the same time, money's never really been bent's ultimate thing. Someone's going to be a champion best in the world. He's one of those competitors. So do you take more money somewhere else and maybe go in another organization and fight somewhere else and kind of end your career somewhere else? Or do you stay in this organization you've been with for a long time and maybe, you know, get less money.

You got to understand as an agent, my whole job is to get the most money possible. And my advice is going to be to sign wherever the most money is at. But every fighter, you know, when you listen to them, they have different objectives. So I still, again, like I said, now that this is done, his fight's over with, I'll have a clearer picture when he lands today, and I can get a chance to talk to him and really get the understanding of where he wants to go. How's Tiago Alves? How long is he going to be out for?

He should be back soon in the first part of the year. He's all right. Okay. It wasn't serious. Rib injury, but he's, he's getting better. So he'll be all right. He was good. And he really wanted to take that fight too. So that was tough. Okay. So obviously, last week, you know, a big deal in the world of M.A., a big deal for our site, for me personally, the John Jones interview. And one of the big talking points, I think, you know, all kinds of opinions after this thing, it was rather extensive. But a lot of people felt like, wow, John, you know, his his comments towards the UFC from, you know, the Vitor Belfort situation, 151, then meeting him in Albuquerque. I mean, that was, you know, his comments towards the UFC. I mean, that was. some heavy stuff. So it's been six days since this interview came out. How would you characterize his relationship right now with the UFC? I think his relationship with the UFC is okay. I think

it's a professional working relationship. You know what I mean? I don't think that I don't think that I don't think there's a lot of repair that has to happen on both sides. If I'm coming from, there's just a lot of things that need to get aired out and talked about. And I think that that will happen. So I think that their relationship is fine. I think John, you know, does what John has to do and the UFC is going to do what the UFC has to do. From your perspective, how difficult was it for John? And a lot of people are still saying, well, you know, actions speak louder than words. Let's see how he is in a year or so.

But from your perspective, to talk about all that stuff, to talk about, you know, the accident, to talk about his addictions, his partying. How difficult was that for John? It was pretty tough. I mean, John's one of those guys. He's very private. He doesn't really like to let people into his private life or what he does. And, you know, he spent a long time trying to make sure that he's, you know, he's a

put front this cookie cutter like you know he said in your interview I wanted to be like magic Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods before he had his you know issue and I just wanted to be that guy and that's the guy I wanted to put forward and then there was another guy that you know John was and you know he did you know he did his best

so for me just come out and say you know what area like this man I'm done this is who I am this is what it is I still want to be a good role model I want to be a good example I make mistakes you know I mean and now I'm done with it I think it's you know it's very it was very courageous on this part because it's something that you know he had never done before. Does a part of you almost feel like, and this is something I've wondered for a while,

like a lot happened to John early. I mean, it's well documented how he really got into MMA. His girlfriend at the time got pregnant, and he was almost, he was a janitor, and he was forced to, you know, just take this chance. Do you think it all happened a little too soon for John Jones, like, you know, for a youngster to go through all? There's no manual. See, that's the thing that's crazy is that even for me, right, as a manager agent,

when I started working with John, just seeing, how it went from, like, because I started working with him at the Madashenko fight, before the Madashenko fight, right? And from the Madashenko fight till he won that belt to everything after that belt, it was a snowball. I mean, it's just the request came in left and right, and he said, I could make a phone call to any company in the world and get the CEO on in two seconds.

Whereas before that, I was, you know, trying to pitch him to everybody before he became the champion, and you know, you got the secretaries, and you got to call this guy, and then before you know it, you're meeting with the hands of Nike and Gereid and you're sitting in front of, like, you know, all these different brands, and, you know, we're turning down movie,

rolls left and right. I mean, you don't understand that this kid's life was, we got book deals for you, John, and we got this to you, John, and John people do this and John, this is so that you want. Got excited there about the future or the past, I should say, of John Jones, and we have encountered a Skype issue here. Let's, uh, oh, are you back, Malki, Malkey, are you back? Is that I'm here? Yes, your picture is frozen, but I can hear your voice. There you are. You're back.

So you were saying people are coming at him with movie deals. and whatnot. Everything. I mean, it was, we had all types of things going on, and every appearance everywhere across the world. Russia, Brazil, Canada, Australia, all of Europe. Everybody wanted a piece of John. Everybody wanted a piece of John.

So he's a really, really good guy. It's just, it is a, uh, can you guys still hear me or no? Yeah, yeah, I can hear you. I can see you and hear it. Okay, I'm sorry. Okay, I'm just saying he's a really good kid. It's just that, you know, he'd never experienced anything. He'd never really done anything.

You got to remember, like, I mean, when he tells him, I mean, when he tells stories being like poor. Eric, do me a favor. Call Malki on a cell because it's breaking up here and we're sort of up against it. So I want to make sure that I can hear what he has to say. They need to up their internet over there at first round management. Because it's not the first time that the feed has been a little choppy, if I'm going to be honest here.

But now for all the critics, I mean, now you'll really find out just how good of an agent. of a representative, Malki is because, you know, like a lot of people said, actions speak louder than worlds. You do have to rebuild this guy. He has one sponsor now. It's a company called Gat Nutrition. But he did at one time have Nike. He did at one time have Reebok.

He did at one time have Gatorade, among many others. And now, you know, are people jumping on that bandwagon? Do they want to see how he acts leading up to the Daniel Cormier fight? or after the Daniel Cormey fight. I feel like if he fights in an MSG, that will definitely get him a lot more eyeballs and interest. If it's a fight card and say, I don't know, Anaheim, then maybe it's like, eh, it's a big deal.

It's a huge deal. It's one of the biggest fights of 2016, but MSG is historic. That is gigantic. Malky, are you there? Yeah, I'm here. Okay. I just wanted to, you know,

I think maybe at FRM we have to get a, a better internet access because it just seems like the speeds are a little slow these days. Everything okay? Oh, okay. The FRIM, right? The number one of the sports agency in the world, then you're telling me that's our speeds. Okay. Well, I'm just saying.

All right. No problem. Okay. Let me ask you about this. I mean, you have one sponsor back on the table, right? Gat. Right. How difficult has it been to resell John Jones?

Well, it hasn't been because, I mean, listen, Ariel, at the end of the day, John didn't wake up in the morning and say, hey, let me go get. in this car accident. Let me go hit somebody and let me go run from me. That's not what happened. And everybody kind of understands, you know what I mean? He's gone through a lot. There's a lot of things he goes through on a daily basis. And I think that people realize, hey, look, he's really, really, really a good person. You sit down and talk with John. I mean, you spent a lot of time with him. You know what I mean? And you know, you know, we've had conversation. You've met a lot of fighters. And there's fighters that come across and

will never do anything wrong. And you just know that they're bad people. And then you meet the John Jones, and you know, he's a good guy that's made bad decision. And there's a difference between, you know, making bad decisions as opposed to being a bad person. And I think that, you know, when we go and we sit down with sponsors and we talk to them, you know what I mean? Part of sponsoring John is sponsoring this idea that he's going to make this change, this turnaround, and that he's going to be a much better person that makes much better decisions. And I think that you can just see that already, just in his training regimens, just in his

exercising, just in the way he's approaching MMA now, completely different than ever before. And that's the scary part about it, is that now, as a company, Do you want to sit there and do you want to belittle him and be like, well, I don't want to sponsor him because, you know, he's too much of a risk. And we understand. We get it. Some people are going to say no. But then there's other part of it where you sit and you say, well, wait a minute,

these are changes that he's made. We've never seen this before in him. He might be the greatest of all time already. What happens now if you really applies himself and just gets that much better? Do we not want to be a part of that? And I think most companies do. So, you know, it's not impossible. That's my whole point.

Would you? You know, it might be a little bit more difficult than before, but it's not like, not hard, not impossible. Would you agree with the statement that, you know, you've been doing this for quite some time, and you've had some very big name clients? Obviously, none bigger than John, but this stretch right here,

from now until his return and maybe a little bit than some, this is going to be the toughest test of your career, because not only do you have to repair the relationships with sponsors or try to get them out there to future sponsors, but the stuff with the UFC with the public, I mean, there's a lot to be done here. And I think, you know, unbiased, I think, you know, last week was a nice first step,

but there's still a lot of work to be done. Would you agree with that? Absolutely. And I think John knows that, and I think John, and the beautiful thing about it is that, you know, to John, it's not work. It's something he wants to do.

But I mean, he has to do. You follow me, like, in his mind, it's like, I'm going to get out there, and you know what? I'm going to prove the world that I'm a good person, and I'm a good guy, and that I am the champion

that they all can get behind. I'm going to do it. You know what I'm not going to do it to try to do it for a PR reason. I'm not doing it for a sponsorship. giving us the real John Jones. He's still a goofball. He's still the best fighter.

He's still funny. He's still serious. He's still all the stuff that he is. But now it's like, okay, there's no more, you know, alcohol. There's no more smoking. There's none of that stuff. It's just a lot of training, a lot of exercise, a lot of nutrition, a lot of, you know, the good things now. And I'm still going to be John Jones.

I'm still going to hang out with my guys. I'm still going to go watch the fight. The difference is that now I'm not going to get messed up. I'm not going to sit here and, you know, sleep all day. I'm going to get up. I'm going to be better father, better husband. better, better client, better coach, a better teammate, a better student. He's just being better at everything.

And I think that's the scary thing about this is that, you know, I always knew he was the best. I knew it from when I first saw him fight. When I first saw him fight was UFC 100. I knew he was going to be the greatest of all time. I don't know why, Ariel, it's called it a big sense. And most of the guys I recruit is a reason for it. But he was the one guy that when I saw him fight, I said he is going to be the greatest of all time.

And I started preaching that, I mean, almost as soon as he won the belt, I knew it. I mean, you saw what he did the show, and it was. It was really way ahead of his time. And I knew the whole time. This guy doesn't train in the opposite. And I didn't know a lot of the stuff that had happened in between camps and this and that. But, like, you know, I knew for the first time, you know,

that when he told you about the Gulf of the fight where he, you know, I didn't know about it. So afterwards, he sent me, I looked at him in the eyes in the hospital and he told me. You know, for the first time in my career, I walked down that aisle. You know what I mean? To that, I'm knowing in my heart that I probably wasn't going to win. I probably deserved to lose because of what I did in training camp. I didn't know that, Errol.

I didn't know that. And he still won. He still showed the world he had heart. He still took on a really game opponent and beat him. And, you know, I was blown away by him. I was just like, wow, this guy is really an amazing, amazing athlete. And, you know, now, you know, I'm listening. I don't buy into when a guy pulls 600 pounds, that's great.

Waits don't hit you back in the face, right? But forget that. Because if D.C. was squatting six plates, it doesn't scare me at all. You know what I'm saying is what I know that's scary about this whole situation is that he's applying himself. He's learning Jiu-Jitsu on the side. He's kickboxing. He's punching.

He's kicking. He's kicking. He's wrestling. He's doing all these stuff, and he still has a fight a long time away. I mean, that's a, you know, you guys realize his jih Tzu coach came out when I don't remember who he was fighting. He said he's a white belt.

That was the truth. He submitted Bitor and Machita all black belts. He is a white belt. Now, John's like actually, you know, trying to train and get better at Jiu-Jitsu and maybe go up in the belt ranks and get a black belt legitimately as a jiu-jitsu practitioner. You don't mean one day. I'm not telling you that says, you know, necessarily his goal, but he's trying to get better at every aspect of his game.

And if he does that, and he can do that, I don't think John will ever lose in his life. I mean, you know, I've been hearing with the whole Ronda thing, everybody loses. I don't think John has to lose. I don't think he will lose if he keeps doing what he's doing. And that's a crazy, crazy thought. What can you tell us about the rematch date? Is it April 23rd? Is the Hope MSGMEN he hinted at it? No one's really saying anything. What can you tell us about it? Yeah, I know 1, 1,000 percent. I think that, you know, for, for, for,

us, April 23rd at MSG would be ideal. You know what I mean? For him to you know, look, it's no secret that when they first started talking about getting New York State approved, you know, John Jones and Chris Wyden were at the top of the list as far as guys that, you know, could potentially headlining depending on schedules and stuff, right? And both from

there, and I think it would be a great story for either one of them, Co-Maine, but to headline it, one of them the headline, for John the headliner, let's say, and Chris the Co-Maineer, if, you know, schedules don't, how much way it works out, but to get one of the two and I think would be cool for them as champions to go out there and do it. And obviously, Chris has a fight, and John doesn't. So, you know, the UFC, you know, has talked to us about some dates. And for us, right now, we're targeting April 23rd. And, you know, the problem with it is, like, you know,

no one thing is because we can't say MSG. We don't know if MSG is going to happen. You follow me? Yeah. So, but I can just say you that, you know, sometime in April, if it's not the 23rd, hopefully it'll be then, but you've got D.C. on next. So, you know, maybe he'll tell you guys, hey, I changed my mind. We'll fight April 23rd at MSG. And if you will, then, you know, we got to fight April 23rd at MSG. It's all really on Korme at the end of the day, right? And if it's not MSG? Oh, then I mean, I guess they might have some backup

somewhere else to fight. I mean, right now at this point, John doesn't care where to fight that. You know what I mean? It's just, it would be cool. I mean, you've got a thing, too, right? You've got your Muhammad Ali moments. Everybody kind of gets that, your Ali-Frasier-type thing or whatever.

MSG for both Kormier and John will be great. I think it would be a huge, huge fight. And to do it in New York State for the first time, You have to be a part of history. Whoever wins or loses that, it won't even matter. It'll always go down in history. The first UFC sanctioned UFC fight to take place in New York State at MSG was headlined by who. And that, I think, is something that, you know, Kormean needs to take a look at and really, you know, consider.

You know what I mean? You're going to sell out an arena that's usually bigger that's going to see more people than the Vegas arenas. You know what I mean? And for both those guys and with the history that they have, I just think that it's a slam dunk all across. All right. I think the UFC knows that. And I think, I think Kormier knows that too. I think Cormier is a smart guy.

He knows what he's doing. I mean, he gets in the meeting, and he says certain things, but I think he knows what he's doing. I wouldn't be surprised if he told you guys April 23 was happening in New York. He might be announcing that next. I don't know.

I will find out. Malki, appreciate the time. Thank you very much. Good to talk to you as always. And good luck with everything with John and the rest of the team. I appreciate it, brother. Thank you.

All right, there he is. Malki Kowah, first-round management. So he was talking about Daniel Korme. Let's talk to Daniel Korme. The Raining, Defending. UFC Light Heavyweight Champion joins us right now. Daniel, are you there? Yep, I'm here.

So, Daniel, you were quiet. You know, last week was a pretty quiet week. No UFC tonight. A lot of media appearances. The John Jones interview comes out, and I, you know, and many others were wondering what you thought of it all. So let me just ask you. Did you watch the interview?

Yeah, I saw it. I saw the interview, at least parts of it. I thought it was good. John seemed he seemed genuine he seems to have seems to completely understand what happened

and the mistakes that he had made and seems as though he is his head is in the right place as he moves forward in his career so good for John it was it was good so you're buying what he's selling

I think I think as a human being you have to you have to give people would have benefited the doubt. Don't always be negative. You know, even when this thing first started, my thought always was

in terms of John the person and life outside of fighting, I was always hoping that he would get stuff right. Not only for himself, but for everyone around. I've said this time and time again, they've seen as though he's done that. And if he's done that,

then it makes for life better for him the person. I'm not even worried about the fighter or anything else, just a person on a personal level, on a level meeting in life, because of how many people to our actions affect, you root for the guy to get it right, if not for himself or for everyone around,

his children, fiance, family, that type of situation. So in a weird way, you were happy to see him, to hear what he had to say, even though he was not too complimentary of you and all that stuff, this is good for you. It's good for Daniel Cormier that John Jones is on the comeback trail. Yeah, of course.

I mean, listen, I don't expect for him to say many positive things about me. It really doesn't affect me one way or the other. You know, I don't lose sleep because John doesn't have the best feelings about me. But the John Jones business is back open, and I'm happy to be a part of it. I'll tell you that much. It's interesting because sometimes when you talk to him, he doesn't want to give you any kind of credit he calls you just a pawn,

but then when you say like, oh, you know, some people say that Kormier is the fake champion, he goes, well, he is the fake champion, and then you see it starting to come out. Did you notice that as well? Yeah. Deep down, it bothers him that you're walking around with that belt. At least that's my assessment. Yes, I do believe that.

I do believe that it, you know, it could have been someone else, and I don't think it would have affected him very much, but because it was me or because it is me as the champion, I think it does make it a little bit different because of our past together. But, you know, yeah, but even watching this interview, you could tell that there are things that John is holding back still a little. You know, you don't know what it is, but, you know, no one's completely 100% open in every situation.

Malki was talking about MSG. I asked him about MSG and he said something very interesting. Just want to play you this quick clip and get your response, all right? Yeah. Here we go. Here's John talking about fighting Daniel Cormier potentially at Madison Square Garden. Could you imagine April 23rd at MSG? I don't, you know, you heard Daniel say he didn't want to fight me there.

Sure. I think that's the most cowardly attitude ever. If he honestly felt like he was going to beat me, if he honestly felt like he had it his heart to beat me. He would fight me anywhere. The fact that the small excuse of where we're fighting is in his mind, it just shows me that he's not ready to beat me. He's not going to beat me, no matter where we fight. So he might as well fight at the guard and make a little bit more money, quite frankly. So the mind games continue. What's your take on that? Well, I mean, if I'm not mistaken, that was a point where the UFC, they were going to go to

Sweden or something and they were going to do to Jones Alexander Gus and rematch or something and John was completely against it because John said I'm the champion I should decide where I want to fight if I'm not mistaken it was something to that effect right the same situation I mean I don't

understand how he can judge me differently than he wants to be judged himself you know it's just again it's just John being John it's in those instances that you know John's holding something back a little still you know because he knows that.

He's very aware of his situation with Alexander, but then he tells me it's a cowardly way because I said it, whereas when he said it, it was just smart business. Again, you know, sometimes we are who we are. Have you relented at all? Have they tried to convince you of that? Where do you stand on the whole MSG thing? You know, I'm giving them a couple dates that I'd be willing to look at,

and, uh, yeah, so maybe you guys will know something soon, but I'm going to make my decision as the champion sooner rather than later. Oh. Just put it like that. Is it? That's good. You know, I'm going to make my decision as the champion sooner or rather than later. The, the cards are in your hands. I'm the champion.

Sure. They should be, right? So is April 23rd one of the dates that you're considering? You know, as a fighter, and I've said time and time again, you know, it doesn't, the garden doesn't really mean all that much to me because I've competed there before. But if I have to be completely honest, obviously, in terms of how historic it would be and how big it would be, obviously, you know, that, That would be a big deal.

Now, for it to be Madison Square Garden, I think, honestly, Hulani, if it is the Garden, April 23rd maybe becomes more intriguing. Because, I mean, you know, obviously, like I said, for historic purposes, it would be cool to fight in Madison Square Garden, obviously. But, you know, we don't want to really give this guy what he wants, you know. So, but, yeah, yeah, I guess I'll think about April 24th. 23rd. So, okay, so I don't know if you pay attention

to him on social media and whatnot, but there's always these videos of him working out, getting buff, I mean, he's gigantic. Do you feel like, A, okay, what do you make of that? Because I see some people criticizing him on his feet, and then he even had to respond to them saying, like, oh, you know, my form, don't worry about my form, I'm just, you know,

trying to get bigger. I think he's trying to do like 600 pounds or something today. Is this smart for him to be doing this? What, what kind of, you know, messages as Daniel Cormier do take away from him trying to bulk up five months before a potential fight. First off, the fight is not April 23rd for sure, so let's stop sitting here as if five months is exactly what it's going to be.

I said before, I haven't decided, Ariel. Sorry. The weightless and stuff, honestly, I thought it was, I thought, look, John said he had some issues before with his alcohol and in drugs. you have to replace that stuff with something. And it seems as though his addiction is not weightlifting. You know, and I bet. You replace it with something positive, something that can help you, you know,

because maybe he feels that by getting stronger, it's going to make him a better fighter. Reality is, when I saw him getting so bulky, as a competitor, I thought, wow, this isn't bad for me. This isn't bad for me as a competitor because the John Jones that was kind of, kind of skinny and maybe wasn't the bulkiest guy. It all worked, Alani. It all worked.

He was like his body, the way his body was, it worked. It allowed him for range. It allowed him for optimal speed. It allowed him for quickness and agility. Look at all the extra bulk. To me, I was like, well, maybe this will slow him down. Maybe he won't be the fastest guy. Maybe this guy is messing with what was given to him.

in reality is what was given to him has been perfect. The guy's 22-0. He's beat the best guys the world has to offer. Some of the greatest fathers of all time. And now he's gotten bigger. So for me as a competitor, I thought, wow, you start messing with the recipe. The recipe that's actually really, really good. Maybe this opens up the door for some of his competitors.

Do you get the sense that your John's sole motivation, like he obsesses over? you that this is why he's bulking up, he keeps thinking about you, wakes up in the morning, goes to sleep, thinks about you. If it was Rumble Johnson with the belt or Gus, it wouldn't be the same. It's because it's you, and that's what's pushing him? I mean, I don't think so. I mean, I think what's pushing him is just life to be better in life. You know what I mean?

I know that my motivation doesn't come solely from John. I mean, and I should, you would think it would be me because I'm the one that lost. Right. You know, so I know my motivation doesn't come solely from Jones. It's part of it, obviously, but no, I mean, I would not give myself that much credit. This guy doesn't wake up in the morning going, wow, I need to lift 500 pounds because of Daniel. He's doing that for himself. So I think the weights is just, you know, he can't do those things that he was doing before.

So you have to substitute it, and he substituted it with something positive. So, good for you, I guess. By the way, last time I spoke to you was right after the Gusus and fight. Physically, I'm assuming you're over. It's been two months. But, like, are you back training? I mean, you took some shots in that fight, right? Did you need to take a break?

You know, I've taken a break. I'm still on break. You know, I mean, but I've trained. You know, I don't lift weights and pose videos lifting weights, but I'm in the gym every day. You know, I'm still lifting. I'm still lifting. I still sparring. I still grapple when I wrestle.

I'm just not doing it as if I'm in training camp. So even though a person is taking a break, that doesn't mean that I'm out of the gym 100% of the time, you know? I mean, this has been the greatest break of all time because not only have I not scheduled a fight, which they usually come pretty fast after a fight. UFC tonight, I hadn't had one in the last two weeks, so I'm going to have a three-week break right around Thanksgiving.

right after my fight, I was off for a week because I was so beat that we were dark for two weeks, like three weeks. So I've had essentially six weeks of my family to just hang out and spend time. So I'm getting to do stuff that I never really got to do because I've been so busy with my fight and TV career. So, yeah, I still trained, though. It allows me to be in the gym more now than I've been between fights in a long time. So while I was in Melbourne, you actually text me, and it was fascinating to hear your perspective here. were watching the chasing Tyson

30 for 30 on ESPN. Yeah. And you came to the conclusion that you are Evander Holyfield. Like you had this epiphany. It almost kind of like blew you away, right? Can you explain why? It did.

It did. You know, I was watching the chasing Tyson 30 for 30. Great show. And Evander was just this normal guy, you know, lived with his family

and he was pretty calm, you know. And it seemed as though people didn't really draw. draw to him. They didn't draw to the calm. They were drawn to the chaos. The chaos was Mike Tyson, and he constantly got himself into stuff,

you know, and people loved him for it, and they just were drawn to him. But Evander just kept plugging away, you know, and even in situations where Mike got himself into stuff, with the loss to Buster Douglas, Evander didn't do that. Evander didn't go to Japan or China

and forced Mike to lose. Mike lost. He didn't train. and Evanda became the champion, but he never wanted to respect that he needed until he beat Mike Tyson, and I feel like I'm in the same situation being that people don't draw to me because it's too much calm. I'm with my family. I hang out.

I don't get myself into trouble. I don't do anything wrong to rock the boat. I didn't make John get into trouble in Albuquerque, but because of the circumstances under which I became the champion, I don't get the respect that I've done. feel like I deserve at times. So I will not be able to beat those demons until I get my hand raised in the fight against Jones.

So I was watching that and it was very odd. And then not even a week later, Hawani, I get a private message from, or I get a follow from Evander Holyfield himself on Twitter. So then I direct message him and tell him the story. Wow. And kind of explain to him how I felt while watching that. And the response was, just keep your head up, keep doing things the right way, and it all workout champ.

Wow. It's unbelievable. That is amazing. Unbelievable. Yeah, unreal. Kind of gave me goosebumps just now. Yeah, it was unreal. Can you imagine if you walk out with Evander, the real deal walking out at MSG?

Would that be something? Holy moly. We could get our Reebok shorts made like those little short shorts, Avanti. Yeah. Dance with it at the 24-hour fitness when you were in the champ. Wow. That is something. By the way,

congrats on the new contract. Are you happy with it? Very happy. You know, I went in there and just made my case and got no fight back, nothing. You know,

the UFC, they're very happy with the way that I've carried myself in response to being a champion. They're happy with the way that I've carried myself in terms of trying to help build other fights

as a commentator and the job that I do at Fox. So I went in there, asked for something. Lorenzo and Dana were very open to it, and we got it done. You know, so it wasn't a fight. It wasn't a guy walking out mad, pissed off.

None of that, just we got it done. So I'm very happy with where I stand and very happy with my new contract with the UFC. So you expect to retire a UFC fighter? Yes, yes. I will retire with the USC. Got a new long contract. And, you know, at 36 years old,

I'm going to fight until I feel it's time for me to walk away. I've said this time and time again my legacy in the sport means something to me so I'm not going to hang around just trying to collect paychecks. Now, be unbiased for me. We're less than two weeks away.

It's a big one. Your guy, Luke Rocco, finally gets that crack at the title. Will he win? Do you truly confidently feel like he's going to be Chris Wyman on December 12th? I do. I do.

But I watch every day. You know, I get to see him train and I'm closely tied to what he's doing in the gym. I don't get to see Chris. So based on what I see, I feel 100% confident that he'll get it done. Unless Chris Weidman has made some huge changes to his game, this is a very difficult fight for him. And you know, I'm a Chris Weidman guy. He's never picked against Chris Weidman once in my career. Chris is a good friend of mine.

but I think this is the fight where the matchup just doesn't favor him. I believe Rocco gets it done. Wow. And what about Kane saying to me recently in Australia that you've changed? I mean, them's fighting words, right? He was joking. I mean, if you're anyone that watched the interview, he was joking. But for me, honestly, seeing him in that way, Hwani was refreshing.

Because that's how he acts when he's around his friend. And he's giving in the public a little bit more of himself now. You see him more on social media. you see him on the interview, being more open. He's trying to actually open up and let people get to know him. And I think that's good for Kane. So for me, it was refreshing to see him open up as he is with his friends and just kind of give the public a glimpse into how he is and who he really is.

He's always been this really guarded guy and only because of his intensity. It's not like he doesn't like people. He's just guarded because of it's so intent on it and he's there for a job. You know, now it seems as we've gotten older, he's more open to people knowing of the real King of Alaska. And I think that's very important. Is it an unwanted distraction that he has left, Zinken, a team that you're very loyal to management team and now signed with CAA?

Or is this just something that we like to talk about and really doesn't change anything? It doesn't change anything. I think people in the media, in the outside, they always look for something. You know, sometimes there are slow news days, Hwani. You and I know that for being in the news business. This is one of those days where a guy like King of Alaska has changed management. Guys change management every day. Yeah.

He would change management teams every day. But the bonds that we have built within the walls of the American Kickboxing Academy and the friendships are going to carry us through any situation. So nothing's changed. Same with that situation. Okay, let's end on this. So John Jones is back, as you said, the JBJBJ business business. is open once again.

What do you think the buildup is going to be like? Do you think you'll have like a world tour type of thing? I mean, I can't wait for those stare-downs. When you see him for the first time, what do you think that's all going to be like? Intense. I can't wait. Because it's going to be intense. It's going to be intense.

It's going to be intense. Right now, I tell you this much. Very happy to see John. Very happy to see John doing well to see that he's gotten. his head on straight, and that he seems to be going in the right direction. But just note that as we move forward, I've got a loaded gun that he actually put the bullets in for me. I'm not afraid to shoot it. Oh, so you're going to use some stuff on him. Is that what you're saying?

He got to, man. You got to. Oh, my. That is going to be fun. By the way, if I can, this whole idea that Dwight, Howard quote unquote posterized. Chris Stabs, Prasengis, my man, the rookie year, the MVP of the 20th. Who buys posters in 2015? Who makes posters in 2015? They got lucky.

They're a mess of a team. They stole one, but that's ridiculous. As we had this interview, I was honestly going to let you off the hook there. Ridiculous. Last night, we started another 10-year streak of beating the Knicks. Last night, for the first time since I was a young boy, in Louisiana that saved all of his pennies to buy posting.

I got on the internet and ordered the Dwight Howard slamming on K. Peavy. He got posterized last night by T. White, and it is going up in my house. I wanted on the set of the MMA hour as I sent it to you in the mail. Fair enough. Daniel, I appreciate the time, as always. Always great to talk to you. And I'm so very excited for this. Wherever the fight happens, man, you're just talking about the bullets and all. It really truly gives me. goosebumps. Thanks, my man. I will see you in Las Vegas next week. All right, there is. Daniel Cormier, the light heavyweight champion of the UFC.

Let's move along, as I said late last week, somewhat of a surprise coming out of Ireland. Cahal Penderd, UFC fighter, announces retirement. He did so via Twitter. And of course, we love having him on the show. Wanted to talk to him about that. And where he goes from here, he is joining us via the magic of Skype right now. Let's go there and talk to Cahall Pendrit himself. How are you, my friend? I'm going around. Okay, well, congratulations on this milestone for you. It's a major point.

I know in every fighter and athlete's career, you get to walk out on your own terms, perhaps a little sooner than you expected. Why did you announce your retirement last week? I've just been thinking about it for a while. Like I said, when I announced it, I just felt like the fire on my belly had kind of dwindled a little bit. And, you know, I always talked about how I felt fair

fortunate that I was pursuing a passion and you know it didn't feel like it worked but it started to feel like it had become a job and I was I was turning up with the gym not because I wanted it but because I had to and I had to get paid at the end of the day so you know I have other other passions that are kind of coming to the forefront now and I just decided you know you can't have been in MMA if you're you're only going to get yourself hurt when you're you're half-heartedly fighting or just turn off for a pay So I decided it was time to pursue other ventures and move on. When did you start to feel this way?

When did you start to feel like the fire was going away? The last couple of months, I suppose. I had been planning on taking quite an extended break after my last fight. I just felt like I pushed myself very hard for the first year I was in the OSC and needed a bit of a break. and then just the way things transpired and I have a business ready to open up now and I was taking a lot of my time and the thing where MMA is like I said

you can't half-heartedly be in it. It's not just like another professional where you just have to turn up with the gym and train hard there and that's it. It consumes your life. It's a lifestyle. Everything you do revolves around the sport and being in peak physical.

shape and eating right and you know if you don't do that right and it doesn't work look at people who have messed up like you know not to point or to you know not to point fingers or anything but you look at people like johnny hendricks who maybe let things slip and then your weight goes out balloons up and you can you have to be on point all the time and and it was starting to get to a point where I couldn't give out, devote all my time to it, and I wouldn't, as a result, be at the best that I could be. So I just said, there's time to move on. Did you start to feel this way leading up to the Tom Bree's fight in Dublin, or did what happened in Dublin a month ago or so really, you know, make you start to feel this way? you know I'd be lying if I said the loss didn't

didn't hurt and and and you know I obviously was devastated but you know I taught thought into it and why it happened and you know the training I put into it beforehand like I said I wasn't enjoying it it wasn't a passion anymore it'd become a job and I was driving to the gym you know every day and I wasn't excited about it like I had been in the past

so I have different things in my life now that excite me and I decided it was time to call it day and I think it was a hard thing to do and I think a lot of fighters don't do it when they feel like that passion has dwindled that they don't admit it to themselves

and they keep on going and ultimately they're just doing it for the paycheck and as a job and that never works out well so it was a hard thing to do but I think it was the right thing to do. Hopefully you feel like this is a fair question. You were on a two-fight losing streak.

Obviously, not your best performances. I think you would agree with that. If you did continue to fight, are you confident that your next fight would have been in the UFC or did you have a conversation and did they say to go elsewhere and maybe that's what led to the retirement? No, I'm not 100% sure what the UFC's plans were.

I just know what my plans were. and like I said I just I just didn't want to continue doing it and not be fully in it you can't fight and you know one foot in the door and

and be concerned elsewhere so it was just my decision and decided this is not what I want to do did you know that night in Dublin on October 24th that that was it for you? No I didn't know Okay. Yeah, like I said, I had thoughts about it.

Well, I definitely knew that I wouldn't fight for, I was thinking, at least six months because I pushed myself hard out five fights and, I'm sorry, six fights and 15 months. And it was very tough in the body. And I just felt like I needed, not just the body as well, just the mind just constantly being in fight camps. I felt like I needed a break after that. But I definitely didn't know it was going to be my last time. Can you tell us about the process that led to you on that Thursday afternoon going to Twitter and writing? I mean, did you have like an all-nighter, talk to your loved one, talk to your mom, who were big fans of, of course, and we say hello to her?

I mean, did you, how did it get to the point where you went to Twitter and posted that message? Yeah, I just spoke to my loved ones as well as I talked to my brother who's, you know, one of my closest friends. and my girlfriend and my mom and my dad and I just kind of said it to them and they like everything I've done in my life they just supported me they didn't try and argue one way or the other

they said look at this what you want to do or 100% behind you so you know that was that and I just kind of wrote out my reasonings for doing it and post it and I got an incredible reaction from from everyone

and all the fans and very supportive and they thank me for for everything and it was emotional then I was reading everything I kind of nearly wanted to say okay no I'm going back

and it's not a response but no it's the right thing to do and I had an incredible journey I started off as just a fan and MMA fan and watching the sport on TV and I just transpired

and went from one thing to another I ended up being a fan and then I was a UFC fighter rubbing shoulders with people that I once was just a teenager

looking on the TV and thinking these guys of the heroes and it was an incredible experience to go from that and something I always looked back on real fondly

you're 28 right yeah when you started this journey when you became a pro, in the back of your mind, did you say, I don't want to fight until I'm 30? Like, were you expecting this, or is this a little sooner than you were expecting? Oh, if you said it to me six months ago, I would have said, you know, early 30s. I never wanted to go on too long.

I think you've a shell-flies as a fighter. So you look at someone like Randy Godore. I think he only started in the 30s and went on to his 40s. You've got a shell-flies there. I started fighting professionally, I think, 21 or. 22 and a good six to seven years fighting professionally and had a great time but it was the time you just know I I'd been thinking about it and that ultimately was was everything I needed to know if you're a fighter and you start asking yourself the question should I be doing this any longer I think that's

that answers it for you if you're asking yourself to this question you know as a fighter you have to have this unparalleled passion inside you just drive and I didn't have that anymore. Obviously, I didn't see all the messages that came your way afterwards, but I did look at your Twitter mentions and your Instagram, and it was very nice. It was great to see these fans supporting you, and we all know that the Irish fans are some of the very best,

if not the best, when it comes to supporting their own. But to me, the one that actually almost made me emotional was what your longtime friend and teammate Connor McGregor wrote about you. I mean, I thought he summed it up perfectly. How did you react when you read the? that. Yeah, like I said, I got emotional when I saw a lot of the messages, but that one in particular, I mean, he's, people don't take credit for how much of a word smith he is, but he actually summed everything up there, what I've done, and, you know, it's very heartfelt

what he said, and I'm very, very appreciative, but I've got a bit of emotional reading that was an incredibly nice message from him. we've talked about this. You're a polarizing figure in this sport. There are fans who love you, others who aren't fans for whatever reason. Did all that get to you at some point? It's, I mean, it's annoying. It's tough.

Social media comes right to your doorstep. Did any of that contribute to this decision? No, definitely not. I mean, definitely, like you said, I'm a polarizing figure, but when you're in the spotlight and anything you get, you get haters, the bigger you get, the more haters you get. And I learned to accept that early on. But no, I wouldn't have left that influence me whatsoever.

Now that you've had time to think about it, why do you think that is? Why do you think you were so polarizing? I couldn't tell you. I really don't know. I mean, I don't know if I was so polarizing. And I think, you know, there was different articles and stuff came out that made it look like that I felt I was getting attacked. But I never, I never felt like I was getting much more hate than many years, to be honest. Okay.

So what are your plans next? 28 years old, you're a young guy, you've got your whole life ahead of you. What are you going to do next? Well, most of the money I made in the USA had six fights and obviously had that 100 grand bonus in the first fight I put all of it away and I've been planning for a while to set up a business and I'm doing that now I'm setting up a salad bar

There's a very popular chain in Dublin at the moment called Chok They're like a salad bar, it's kind of healthy fast food And I'm setting up one of those now in the city centre should be opening in the next couple of months. Oh, wow. Yeah, so that's taken my, that's taking up my time for the next couple of months. But, you know, so many things I want to do. I do.

I do a lot of writing in the Irish media. Since I retired, I've got those more offers asking me to write for different outlets. And, you know, I want to do analytical work tomorrow. I'm down into Stant of Sports to, you know, package all the U.S. stuff over here in Ireland. And I'm doing a, like, a breakdown show on. UFC 194 so I'm still out that and that's something I'd like to do in the future as well

I've also you know I've done acting in the past is something that I was always had an interest in and I've done some stuff in the last couple of years movies and TV shows and I've actually had to turn down stuff because you know I was in training for for fight so

I've got something I'll I'll pick up on as well so you're going to join the media dark side I like that we welcome you with open arms I've read your stuff It's great. Come over to the dark side. By the way, I saw John Kavanaugh, your longtime coach,

write something very briefly on Twitter. Did you have a conversation with him? I know he's in California now, but considering what he's meant to your career, did you speak to him on the phone or via any other means to tell him this in person? Yeah, I spoke with him and told him obviously before. I didn't just go on an outset and not tell.

I'll tell him. So, yeah, no, he kind of, I don't know if he saw a coming bar, but he seemed to be, he didn't seem to be too shocked. You know, so he wished me all the best. And, you know, we're still going to be, he's a friend to all of us, and his students. We don't have, like, some coaches have, like, a father-son type relationship. We're more like, it's a friend-type relationship we have with John and we'll remind him. to be like that. I'm still going to train out in the gym.

You know, the Stephanie. MMA started off as a hobby for me, then it turned into my job. But now I'm going to revert back to it being my hobby again. And I'm going to keep in there with the guys for as long as I can. I keep trying with them. Considering how fresh all this is,

do you think it will be difficult to watch UFC 194? No, I'm not. I'm just the most excited I've been for a card in a long time. It's an incredible card. I'm going over. And I can't wait to see, Conning He and avoid those belts and go out and celebrate with them afterwards. So you'll be there.

In what capacity, just as a fan supporting your friends? Just as a fan support my friends. Yeah, I had been the plan, even before I'd made that decision I was going out. The last time, you know, during the summer USC199 it was there it was an incredible experience

and I could see what it was how much of an incredible experience it was but I couldn't partake in the kind of the fan side of it and a little bit ambious of that so on but this time I'm doing that that's that way so I'm going over with a few buddies

tomorrow and I've got tickets and can't wait for it it's probably the best card the USA's ever had yes and don't forget about your other teammate Gunner Nelson fighting Damien Maya in a huge fight on that card as well. Yeah, it's an incredible.

It's an incredible card. That fight and then the Wyman Rockholes. Yes. It's amazing. It's an amazing car. Let us just pray that nothing else happens as far as injuries. Okay, last thing. You look back, tremendous career.

People could only dream of a career. Like you're a 17 and 4. You fought in the UFC. You're on the ultimate fighter. You've won belt and other organizations. When you walk away from the sport, what's the greatest memory of them all? Could have been one in the cage while you were fighting,

could have been one in the locker room in the gym. Is there something that sticks out that you'll be telling your kids and grandchildren about? Obviously, my USC debut was very tough, but I think for me, what was the most incredible experience of it all was being part of the MMA forefront when it went from obscurity in Ireland to mainstream. That whole journey was just incredible. like I've said to you before, four, five years ago,

journalists wouldn't, wouldn't touch an interview with us, you know, any of his fighters, and any time MMA was mentioned in the press, it was something bad to do with it. You know, it was afraid of a cage fighting.

Now, now MMA in Ireland is like a, it's like a mainstream sport. And the fighters in the U.S. here, like household names, and, you know, that journey of how it went from there, from A to be,

was incredible. I think the best thing I'll tell you from her. Yeah. You are a pioneer of Irish MMA, and not a lot of people can say that about where they're from. I'll never forget. I mean, that Dublin event was one of the greatest I've ever attended and covered. Your fight, your comeback win over Mike King, a huge part of that. Seeing you at the press conference, you know, with the busted eye and just, you know, on the winter side of things was a beautiful sight. It was a great thing and something that I'm sure is going to be a part of memories for a very long time. I remember when you were on the show, when you were trying to get into the UFC, when you were part of that documentary series, and there was a camera crew following you,

so it's been a lot of fun watching this journey, even though I got into it a little bit late, but I wish you the best call. Always a pleasure. You're always a class act. And, you know, I must say, I kind of smiled when I saw your old friend CM Punk sent you a tweet as well, giving you the respect. The beef is no more, and you guys can bury that hatchet. I thought that was very nice as well. Appreciate you coming on. Wish you the best, and hopefully I'll run into you in Las Vegas next week. Thanks, Harold. That was nice chance. Thank you. All right, there he is. Cahal Pendred now retired.

UFC, welterweight, 17 and 4 record with one draw, walks away from the UFC on a two-fight losing streak. But if you were in attendance that night, when he fought my king at what was then called the O2 in Dublin, that was a magical comeback. When he beat my king after almost getting obliterated early in the fight, of course that fight someone marred for Mike King because he tested positive

failed his post-fight drug test but when Cahal Pendred defeated Mike King that night you just knew honestly and this is something that you know sports people say oh you had something that was in the air no no no you felt it

you felt it that night that something special was going on for the Irish fighters and fans that was I mean one of the greatest comebacks ever I don't think anyone would would argue with that. Really special stuff. So nothing to be ashamed of. A champion in Cage Warriors fought hard to get into the UFC. And I think he would be the first one to tell you. I know that as we

just talked about a polarizing figure and some thought that he, you know, got some unfair decisions that should have gone his opponent's way, that he wasn't the best, all that stuff. Worked his ass off to get to the UFC with not the same kind of skill set as some of the of his counterparts and it was just kind of that workhorse. And, you know, you walk away with a 17-4 record, well done. Congratulations on that. So appreciate his time and wish him the best in the future in his quote-unquote future endeavors. All right, let's move along. A big fight announcement last week, Josh Barnett will be facing Ben Rothwell right across the river here in Newark, New Jersey. It's UFC on Fox 18. It's at the Prudential Center. Always love talking to Josh Barnett.

And he's joining us right now via the magic of Skype. There he is. Josh Barnett. How are you? I'm well. I've just started my morning coffee. Oh, that's good. So things will only improve from here.

Well, I'm happy to see you smile, Josh, because, and correct me from it. It was so interesting to talk to you last time you're on the show. You were just about to leave to Japan to fight Roy Nelson. And you weren't on via Skype, but it was a different kind of Josh Barnett. I got a glimpse of like the fight week. Josh Barnett, the Josh Barnett that's going out on a mission back to his old stomping guy. Like there was no nonsense there.

You weren't in the mood to crack Joe. Well, part of that was I had a professional Josh Burnett impersonator do that interview for me. That's why we couldn't see you. I was too busy with fight preparations to be on a phone call right then. It makes sense because usually you're on via Skype. That might be the only time that you weren't on via Skype. So now it all makes sense. Right.

He could do my voice. but honestly he wouldn't have stood up to the site test. So I had to finagle a way around that technical difficulties. What about that moment? I haven't talked to you since the fight, of course. And I know you've had great moments in your career, but to go back to Saitama, to have a performance like that, the way you look, the way you fought,

where does that one rank? It felt special as a viewer, as a longtime viewer of yours, but for you personally, where does that rank? I have no idea. Okay. I don't really think about it that way. It was a really good moment in it was, it's always good to see the fruits of your labor come through with all the training and everything. And just the game plan working as expected, except for the fact of I had originally intended to take him down,

but the striking was going so I thought I could knock him out, and neither one happened. So it wasn't perfect. So you were disappointed with your performance? Well, he went through a decision, so that's always a disappointment for me. But overall, from a non-critical level, I mean, it was a good fight. People enjoyed it. There you go. 25 minutes' worth of time working is always better than, you know, five seconds anyways, too.

So if I was able to knock him out, maybe there was improvement that I wouldn't have been able to make for this fight because I didn't get that experience in the ring. What was it like being there Fight Week in Japan? Did it feel like the old days? Is this a new market? What was it like for you? Not entirely like the old days, but there were some overarching similarities. And being there for Fight Week was fantastic. I loved it.

It was incredibly easy. and I mean, except for maybe a few technical things like they wanted me to set up my Facebook chat through the UFC site through an app that I couldn't run on my phone because I run a Samsung Galaxy 6, which is an Android, and the app was only for iPhone. of her iPhone. So, I mean, little stupid things like that, but otherwise, I loved it. It was, it was so freaking easy over there. But then again, you know, I'm so used to that environment. And I think that a lot of the people working over there in Japan were familiar with me from old stuff back in the day. Right after the flight, I spoke to your manager and he said that, you know, you could come back in two months. I bet you did speak to my manager. That must have been a real interesting moment. I hope your wife doesn't think you're becoming schizophrenic.

No, I love your manager. One of my favorites, if not my favorite. My manager, what is his name? There's a picture of him right behind you. Oh, yes. Oh, me. You're my manager. That's right, that's right.

That's in a different world. That's a different kind of manager. He said to me that, oh, it could be two months. It could be two years. You got a lot going on. Something very interesting that was said was, you know, you have to decide whether or not you want to fight for money or your legacy. Legacy means you continue your fighting career money. well, you know, or if money is the most important, you go do movies and things of that nature

because you got a lot on the table. So I was thinking, wow, that might have been Josh's last fight, at least for a while. Now here you are coming back in January. What got you back? A bunch of legacy tinged in money. That was the biggest part. It's a lot harder to plan ahead nowadays with all the things that I'm involved in. I'm, you know, I just got back. I was at SEMA earlier this month, the Special Equipment Manufacturers Association Convention. I'm there every year with Center Force Clutches, and I'm always doing stuff in the car industry. And so there's a couple build projects that I'm trying to get underway, not to mention movie project stuff,

which is, it's really, it's a lot like fighting and that things change. on a moment's notice. The way I always look at it is it's like having, it's, you know, all these things sort of hover around you and every now and again, one just comes down. You never know when one of those is going to come down. They tell you, oh, well, in April or this or that, and it's just like we're fighting. Well, they'll say, oh, we want you to fight on this card against this guy. And you go, okay. And then all the other variables come into play, and that doesn't happen. And everything gets switched around and you end up on this date or against that opponent. It's the same with movies, maybe even more so.

So trying to play a little bit of the Great Carnac and open up that mayonnaise jar off of Funk and Wagoner's porch and try to figure out what the answers are going to be. So you can plan ahead. Johnny Carson jokes probably aren't going to go over really well with our demographic. But yeah, but it's worthwhile to do it. And it's hair pulling at times. And luckily, I still have a full head of hair, but I don't know if I keep on with all this fighting, moving, movie stuff and everything.

Who knows how much I'll have left. But it's running me to the ragged edge, but I like it. And I'm here to live life, not coast comfortably. And I've even got my training duties. DJ Tyke is going to be fighting on the Risen December 29th card at Feather. White and he's down here in CSW training with all of us. And I got Victor Henry, who's fighting for the King of Pancrease title at Bantamweight, December 13th, at Pancras 23 that'll be live on flight pass.

I got a lot. I got a lot going on. So did they have to sweeten the pot to get you to come back? I always like sweet pots, you know, even though that could be controversial, I suppose. I don't know. That's not a marijuana joke. Okay. Um, it just, it's about how it all worked out, how it all worked out together, timing,

uh, having enough time to get into a camp. And, and honestly, it's, it's easier to, to roll from this last fight into this one than it would be necessarily to take a break. And it, in the way I saw it is if I took like a short to medium break would have been worse than to take a really short break go into a fight or to take a really long break do other stuff set up well in advance for the fight so I just turned 38

maybe two weeks ago it takes a little longer to get into these things how many more years do you want to do this for have you thought of that yeah until I'm done that's the only answer that I can ever give faithfully and honestly because you don't get the opportunity to be an ask

athlete all your life. And so while I may be able to continue to grapple or do some other things after fighting, fighting has its window and then when that's closed, it's close is close. So I'm going to run it until the wheels fall off. And that's only the way I can see to do it. It appeared to me that you were in maybe the best shape of your career. I mean, you look tremendous. Do you agree with that A and B, how did you get to that point? I wasn't pretty damn good shape. I was working. I was working with my buddy, Eric Hammer, who does, he's like my main sparring partner and has been for the longest time, but he's been working with a lot of different diets on athletes. And right now he's working with Helen Maroulis, Aaron Pico. I think he's even working with Elena Periscoba

for their diets and they're some of the top freestyle wrestlers in their weight classes in the world. And they're finding their weight cuts to be easier and feeling stronger and getting on the Matt's bigger. So, you know, if it can work for them, it can work for me. So working with that was an improvement in just not so much how I show up on fight day, but also how the day-to-day training goes, because it breaks you down so much. And being able to recover properly is so incredibly important. And it had a big help with that. Also, I just, being in shape is pretty much the biggest key to fighting in a lot of ways. And Carl Gatchewy said, conditioning is your greatest hold. And I believe that. So whether I have looked in great shape in the past or look or not,

I'm always in shape. I'm always ready to go. I'm always ready to give five rounds if I need to. And five rounds is a lot of output. I hit, I threw a lot of strikes in that fight. And you can't do that unless you have the gas tank for it. And it's not just even about having a game. gas tank. It's about being able to expend that energy to go hit that quarter mile blast and then be able to turn around and hit another one. So how quick can you recover? You know, when I spoke to Rashad Evans in October prior to his fight against Ryan Bader, at that point he had not fought in around two years. And he was like, this is a completely different UFC. There's so many new faces, got the Reebok deal, the USADA thing. He, you know, he was coming to a whole new promotion in a sense. And the same was, you know,

the case with you. It had been almost two years since your last fight. What did you make of all that? particular the Reebok and Usada stuff. How did you feel about it, you know, once you finally had a fight under your belt under, under this new era? Well, as far as like Reebok and Usada, that stuff is, there's nothing you can do about it. So there's no point to really feel about anything. Feeling about it won't help you and it won't change anything. But you know, you need to learn what the rules are and how to work with it. And as far as Usada, I've already done the first full bore WADA, Olympic level, random testing protocol

when I fought Travis Brown. So I've already done Usada and then some. So these guys, they're a different group, but I've already done their protocol, or if better. So no big deal to me, I mean, and even still, even if it is a big deal to you, well, then I guess you can't fight in the UFC because they have to go hand in hand.

So, and with Reebok, it's the same thing. You know, you can talk about how much money you may have lost from your sponsorship deals or you don't like the uniforms or what have you. But instead of trying to scream about it, I instead just tried to work with people and see what could be done. And honestly, so far, the Reebok experience has been pretty easy for me. You know, it's like I've said in the past, I would love to see more personalization in terms of colors and styles and things. like that, maybe even just a set group of patterns or graphics that you can

alter color-wise. You know, that's just a simple matter of swapping out different pallets, but for the individual fighters. But otherwise, now the gears worked fine, everything was okay, but when it comes to the overall landscape of things, Usada, Reebok,

that's more on the business side of stuff. When you get into a ring, fighting's fighting. Fighting hasn't changed. War never changes. So, you know, I can't say how Rashad feels about this, but I know I don't really care. I know I'm going to walk into a ring or a cage and someone is going to be there claiming that they can kick my ass. And I'm out there to prove them wrong. So there is no difference.

It doesn't matter if you transported me to the UFC 20 years from now or whatever the organization may be at that time. I know that there's going to be another man at the end of the end of the end of the end. end of that ring and I'm going to go out there and beat the smack out of them. So fighting is fighting, man. They ain't much to wrap your head around. Either you want it or you don't. So this is a big fight against Ben Rothwell, a character that's coming into his own. What's your take on Big Ben? The laughing, the promos, the dancing, and of course the fighting as well. I'm not worried about the dancing. Okay. I already defeated Daniel Corby and a danceoff. Yes, Daniel. I defeated you. You are unprepared.

your hips were not well lubricated for that moment. But, you know, Ben's an all right, dude. I've known him for a very long time. He is a fellow nerd as well as I am. He's a Magic the Gathering geek. He used to play video games, I believe, to a professional level. Now, I could be wrong about that. I remember he was telling me about that back in the day

when he was fighting in that heavyweight Super Bowl tournament, the Tim Sylvia won. Okay. So, you know, this fight might be able to. be decided by a game of magic or a street fighter two. You never know. I'm sure the, uh, the execs at Fox would love that if you guys just stop fighting and broke out the cards like you did one time on this very show. Yes, I did. Yes, I did. Yes, I did. And I won. Yes. By the way. Well, one, you were ill prepared because you didn't even have a deck. No. And I don't even know anything about

magic because contrary to popular belief, I'm not as big of a nerd as people think I am. But I'll tell you what, I do love. You are a big nerd, but you're a, you're a more specific nerd. You know what I mean? Nerd comes in many shapes and sizes. When it comes to sneakers, you are a full-blown dork. Fair enough. That's okay. That's okay.

You know what I'm nerd of? I love the round five figurines. They don't make those anymore. But my good friend Gonzo Customs, go to this camera right over here. He sent me last week. He sent me a custom-made Josh Barnett that, I mean, this is based off of the H-A-O pride figures. Yeah. I mean, look at this thing.

Do you have one of these? Did he send you one? No, no. I have had, I have never had the opportunity to really meet him. And every time we've been in the same area, we've never hooked up. But yeah, he does quality work. This is insane. Look at this thing with the shoes and the pride gloves. This is all handmade one of one. How do you feel about the fact that I have this and you don't? I feel like I'm going to start feeling shooting pains in various body parts as you stab it with neither.

those or something? I don't know. Either that or your Josh Barnett fetish has come full circle. It's only fitting, though, as your manager, that I would, you know, some of the fruits of my labor. You know, I mean, I think it's totally right. Throughout you, all things are possible, Ariel. Yes. Well, I just wanted to mention that I had that. For Shecky. Okay, let me ask you this before I let you go. You now, do you still train Jessamine Duke?

Yep, still training Jessman Duke. still chanana basler is on a on a on a on a full on pro wrestling streak right now she's doing great uh she just had she was one of the co-made events for ecc w pay-per-view she'll be going back up there again in uh january uh i even got uh local indie our indie superstar tim thatcher is coming through here to train with me and catch as catch can and uh yeah the pro wrestling stuff is going strong and still training the girl still training marina sheffier okay so so i'm happy you mention that because a lot of those fighters came from jeeathean F.

Glendale, right? And Edmund has received a lot of criticism as of late. What's your take on that? Is he, you know, is this deserving? Is he not as good of a coach as we thought he was? What's your take? Yeah, I don't really know about that. All I can say is that the time that I was around him and some of the things I saw him show

as a coach, I thought were pretty good. And I think that he's done a pretty fair job with Ronda overall, considering she's done she's been undefeated. Now, I know people say that it's, like, you didn't really have any, you didn't have, you wouldn't have to do anything for her, but just, you know, put the gloves on her and give her some water. But I disagree with that. I think he's had a good, a good part of her development as a fighter. And while she may not be the phenomenal boxer that all the, you know, all the, as Rhonda and Edmund has touted so,

often about she's going to go out and knock out all these pro boxers. But, I mean, considering where she came from, I'm sure she has made a lot of improvements from day one to now. And, you know, I mean, there's more to be in a coach than just techniques. You know, I imagine that her mentality towards going into the ring has been bolstered by the way he trains her. So as far as, like the other, the girls, Jessamine, Marina, and, and Shana. Well, Shana had been my student. for years, seven years or so. So it made sense for her. And even still during her GFC camp,

she was spending some time down at CSW. And, you know, it makes a lot of sense for her to be down there with me. And I guess, you know, the girls came with her every now and again, and they decided that they liked the way that CSW was set up in the way that I did things. So they wanted to come and train alongside me, or train under me and alongside Shana. So I don't think there was a whole lot of Edmund sucks or anything like that. Okay, fair enough.

I wanted to get your take on that. Well, good to catch up, Josh. Thank you very much for the time. Nice to see you. It's been a while. Yes, and I look forward to this fight. This is a great fight on Fox. Josh Barnett, Ben Rothwell, January 30th, Newark, New Jersey, Prudential Center.

You're coming to our neck of the woods. That's very exciting. I'm sure I'll talk to you. By almost 65, 270-ish, getting in the ring with 6-3. Who knows how heavy I'm going to be for this fight. You know, I have a good record in Jersey, you know. I've done pretty well for myself. Yes.

Well, that'll be fun to look back on. So, okay, I appreciate it. I'm looking forward to it. Can't wait. Live and free on Fox. Josh Burnett, I'm sure I'll talk to you beforehand, but it's been good to get your initial thoughts. Thank you so much.

Bang, bang. There he is. The Warmaster himself. Good to hear from him. My good friends over at Fight Metrick. Flip the script. It tells me, Josh Barnett landed. a heavyweight record 146 significant strikes versus Roy Nelson,

including a UFC record 95 significant strikes landed in the clinch. How about that? Not bad, Josh Barnett. And you know that it had to have felt good, considering how his fight against Travis Brown went at UFC 168. What's going on here? That was big. Big to come back.

Very much a player in the heavyweight division now. And things are getting interesting. and we know that it's Kane Velasquez and Verdunx. We don't know exactly when February and March, but you got the JDS Overeem fight, you got the Miochich-Arlofsky fight, and then you got this fight, Ben Rothwell versus Josh Barnett,

all in the span of a little over a month. I mean, someone's going to emerge. I don't know if there's a clear-cut favorite. I'd probably go with maybe Arlowski-Meyochich fight as the front-runner for the number one contender fight, and then maybe it's Ben versus, Josh and then maybe it's JDSR, I really don't know. It's like that UFC on Fox 4 event way back when where, where they said, the guy that looks most impressive is going to get a title shot.

Remember that? That was weird. And Machita got the title shot, but then he never actually got the title shot. You know what I'm saying? It was, that was right before the whole UFC 151 madness. Or I should say UFC 152 madness, which John Jones talked about last week in our interview, the interview that we posted last week. As I said, that was, this time last week, I was a much different person. I was a much different person. It was very, one day, I'm going to write a book. I'm leaning towards Highway to Helwani.

The problem is I don't do a good job of writing down all my experiences. I have a feeling that this one's going to stick with me for a long time, but I need to do a better job of recording this stuff because it's been quite the trip. It's been seven or so years. I'm not announcing my retirement or anything here, but the highway to Halwani is the title that comes to mind all the time. This one will probably have its own chapter. But I have a feeling like if it comes to it and I really need to,

I'm very lazy when it comes to writing or even recording. this sort of thing, I'm probably going to forget everything. So I need to really get on that. But it made, you know, the comments afterwards and the feedback, it sort of made it all worth it. So I really truly appreciate everyone who wrote in, who sent us messages, who, of course, watched the interview. And I still have a couple more interviews from my trip to Albuquerque. What a great trip that has turned out to be. Yesterday I posted one with Carlos Condit, who at the very end of the interview said, you know, I don't have a lot of time left, and I thought that was very interesting as he prepares for a welterweight title fight. I have two more left to post. One with the aforementioned

Andrei Alasky, and another with the aforementioned Alistair Overeem, in which Alistair Overeem actually physically assaults me in the middle of Jackson Wink. No joke. Takes me down, ties me up like a pretzel, a sveled Alster Overeem, no less. I'm tapping furiously. I'm sort of, I meant he's tickling me, just to give you a little preview here, he's tickling me in the hip. I actually had a bruise. Should have taken a picture. And I'm tapping. He's ignoring the taps a la Hussimar Paul Harris.

And this is all caught in camera and no one does anything about it. How about that? That will be out soon. So in a minute we're going to be joined hopefully by George St. Pierre. what an honor and pleasure it is to have them on the show once again had them on i think twice thus far once episode 200 another time after ufc 171 did we have them another time maybe it was a big day or at least we thought it was going to be a big day in nevada they were having another one of their hearings this one again not being televised on fight past second time in a row i wonder if that's a

sign of things to come uh and and and the big item on the docket was the the Vandrelae Silva rehearing but if my Twitter is correct it doesn't look like there is going to be a rehearing I'm looking at Twitter right now they did announce

who the the referees are going to be for the two big title fights at UFC 194 Big John McCarthy will be reffing Aldo McGregor which is amazing news great to see Big John back in the mix

in Nevada, and Herb Dean gets Widman Rockhold. Oh, and just as I say that, Sean Alshaddy posts an article on the Vanderly Silva rehearing, again postponed by the Nevada Athletic Commission. This is the saga that will never end. This is from Sean. Van der LeSilva's rehearing, and by the way, if you miss Sean's story on Jose Aldo and the men who faced him, it's just outstanding. It was posted last week.

You can easily find it on the site. Van der LeSilva's rehearing with the Nevada Athletic Commission was again postponed on Monday with the NAC electing to table the issue for a December meeting after Silva's lawyer, Ross Goodman attempted to introduce a consent order, a voluntary agreement between two parties without an admission of guilt. He negotiated with Nevada Deputy Attorney General Chris Eccles. Silva was not present at Monday's meeting. The commission ultimately postponed the decision, excuse me, the discussion until December to allow ample time to review Silva's consent order. So you can read the rest of that on MMA fighting.

dot com. But now let us go to our next guest and welcome him. He is joining us via the phone right now. He is the one and only. George St. Pierre. George, how are you? Hi, Ariel. I'm doing great.

How are you doing today? I'm doing very well. Fantastic. Thanks. Well, thank you so much for joining us. You seem out of breath. Were you just working out? Yeah, no.

Yeah, but I had to jump in the shower and then I had no signal where I was. I'm sorry. I'm a little bit late. So I have to go up, come upstairs, and some people were asking me for picture and stuff, so I had to get free, and now I'm calling you. No problem at all, George, we'll wait all day for you. So it is an honor to have you on the program. Let's get right into it.

You know, I've noticed, you know, you kind of come and go as far as media is concerned, but over the last week or so, you've talked to some people, some French outlets, some Canadian outlets, Chil Sun and you're on his podcast. Is there a reason why we're hearing more of you over the last week or so? Well, I have nothing really much to say, you know. I just, I guess, with everything that happened, Ronda Rosie, lost their fight, maybe my movie coming up, Kickboxer, and I guess Freddie Roach made some comment about possibility of if I would like to go back fighting. I need it, it would be a good idea to do a six-week training camp.

I think that's why. Yeah. So let's talk about that because he came on. our show and confirm that. Was he sort of speaking at a turn there? Did he kind of put the cart before the horse? It sounds like, from what I've heard, that you're not really considering doing this. It might happen, but it's not a definite.

Is that right? I know, I heard what he said. He didn't say it was definite, too, you know. The reporters does their job. They want to, you know, they want to have the, they want to bring the scoop, you know, the news. He didn't say nothing wrong. he said we had to talk with each other

and yeah he told me so George will you think of coming back he said if you think of coming back I think you should do a six-week training camp and I said to him that if I ever fight again I won him in my corner otherwise I would not come back I needed him and he's a big part of my game now

and I think he's the best in the world had what he does and I want to be I want to be more involved him to be more involved with me if it's done Why did you make that decision? Why do you feel like it's best for you to have them in your corner if you do come back?

No, I feel a difference when I train with Freddie. I feel my footwork, my distance control, my power, the punches, power, my hands, everything gets better. I try to sometimes transform myself more into a... I'm from Karate's background and tried to transform myself more into a more Thai stylist. I think Karatee, I should say with Karatee, I should say with Karatei, and boxing. I think that's what works. That's what works the best for me. He also said that if you do this six-week training camp,

it will be in L.A. at Wildcard. He'll be overseeing it. And that was surprising, considering where you're from, Montreal and your gym TriStar. Is that true? I don't know if he says that. When we talk about it, I told him I want him to be involved.

Of course, I'm going to come in L.A., but I want him to come in Montreal. We'll see. It's nothing, you know, one thing for sure is now I want to, you know, with all those years of training, you know, I never spend really much the, you know, like New Year's and all the holiday time with my family and friends. I never had, because I was always on the Super Bowl card. I was always training, so I couldn't really enjoy my time. So now I want to, one thing for sure, I want to have a nice, nice holidays with my family and friends, enjoy it, party, have fun. training, of course. But if I have to do it and try to do it, I'm going to do it after that,

and after in 2016. Does the party wish that you initially came out and said you're retired so that people like me would stop asking you if you're coming back if you made a decision? The fact that you're kind of in and out and you haven't said the R word, I feel like every interview I've seen of yours, every time you're making a public appearance, people are asking you, are you coming back? Are you not? Do you almost regret the way it's been done? No, no, no, no, I don't. I don't. I don't. just, I don't even know myself and it depends on a lot of things and a lot of things, you know,

like I said, I haven't made my decision. I don't have to make the decision yet because I don't know. You know, I'm not the kind of guy if I say I'm going to retire and come back and then make up like, you know, I don't try. I don't like to do that. Like, so I don't, I just don't know, you know, so. Is there a part of you that says if I reach a certain age, then for sure I'm not coming back? Like, I have a deadline? It's not really the age. I think it's the, the physicality, how you feel as an athlete. And I feel the best I ever felt. You know, I just finished training.

I feel more powerful in better shape than I ever felt. I feel smarter, sharper, and, you know, I feel great. I also train for fun. I don't really train for performance right now, which is different. Right. But I feel the fun again. I used to do for so many years training for performance with, you know, the stress and the pressure.

So I kind of, with everything that I've happened, I kind of lost fun. So now I have fun again. And I needed this. I needed this for a long time. When you sit down and watch big UFC fights, do you start to imagine, do you start to get that itch and say, ooh, what would it be like to go back in there?

Can I do it again? Can I be champion? Has your mind started to think that way? Yeah, but it's always going to be there because I used to compete. It's always going to be like that. A part of me is thinking I have a lot more to lose. the whim. And another part of myself think, we only live once, you know, so I don't want to be maybe at 80 years old and say, tell myself, oh, I should have done it and I didn't. I should have

done. A lot of things in life that I regret are most, I think in life that I regret, the most are the thing that I haven't done. It's not the thing that I did. It's the thing that I haven't done. So there is prong and pros and pros and cons, you know, to this. And, you know, I just don't know. Your coach, Farah Zahabhi, said on this show, he thinks you have a lot of fight left in you. Freddie Roach said he thinks you're coming back. Why are all these people so close to you saying that you're coming back, but you're not saying it? I tell you, I feel the best I ever feel.

I look better now in training, inspiring and all that, that I ever looked. Even when I was competing at my best, I'm at my best. I have more fire in me. I have more fun. I enjoy training and I'm more hungry. But the reason why we talk about this, trying a training camp without fighting, is because sometimes when you're in training camp,

you can be lethargic. You know, like if the lethargy kicks in again and you still have, you lost your edge and you fall into the same pattern feeling and that when you were tired and not hungry, that's a good indication that you need to stop. That's not a good idea to go back. That's why I believe it would be smart.

If I plan to, if I plan to, it doesn't mean I will. If I plan to come back, I won't tell nobody. I will do a training camp in secret, you know, and see how it goes and, you know, it depends also what's going to happen in UFC and a decision that people are going to make. make, and the results, a lot of stuff. Depends on a lot of things.

Last week, you made headlines when you talked about the night of UFC 167. You were getting stitched up. Someone from the UFC said, you don't have to go to the press conference. You said, no way, I'm going to the press conference. And you said, if things... No, they didn't tell me, I didn't have to go. They told me to not going. They didn't want me to go.

They didn't want you to go. Is it... If they don't go, you're not allowed to go. That's what they say, I swear. Why do you think they said that? I don't know. I don't know at the time, because I didn't know what had been said. It's after that I realized.

They didn't have any discrepancy after my fight. Like, I didn't, you know, I didn't felt, you know, I had the result, and I didn't felt like I was pissing off people. I didn't feel, I didn't know what was going on, like this whole thing, like, they know what I was saying. And I'm, you know, I'm not angry at that. you know what, I talked to him, and he do things for the best of his interest, and I do think from the best of my interest,

and it was not in the best of his interest for the organization that the guy leave with it out. And I understand it was a close fight. You know, many people, you know, they argue. Yeah, yeah, to my eyes, I review it many times. I thought I won one, my corner told me I did one, three, and five. So it didn't have any discrepancy in my, in my, in my, in my mind, I know after a fight, like a lot of fine people raised their hand and stuff, and, you know, I didn't feel it was like, I don't know if it's the correct word discrepancy,

you know, I didn't feel anything, I didn't know nothing bad was going on until they say to me, oh, you're not allowed to go in press conference. I found it out, I find it that it was kind of weird. And I, because I was getting stiff, I waited for the doctor a long time. And I walked in, and I saw the reaction of people. I was like, it's kind of weird. And it's all after when I reviewed the press conference, when people told me what was going on that I realized, but I didn't know.

Is it true that they took away your belt that night? Yes. They came to take the belt, and Christoph, my friend, he was angry. Like I was getting stitched up, I think, and I don't mind the belt. I mean, it's a nice gift. Every time I went a new belt, I used to give it. as a gift to people that helped me. I kept one.

The first one that I, that I won, I gave it to my mother. The second one, I put it in my workout place. And all the other belt that I gain, I gave it to either one of my trainer, one of the people that helped me, one of the guys that I used to help me, I sponsor a long time ago, I always gave it to someone that is very important to me. And, yeah, they took the belt, yeah. But it's okay. It's only material.

The importance for me is the memory that I kept from it, and this, nothing can take it away from me. After the press conference, I believe you had a face-to-face meeting with, I think it was Dana and Lorenzo. Can you tell us what was said in that meeting? Yes, I'll tell you, and I'll be straight to him. I'm not going to say name. I'm not going to tell you exactly what I said, but I was very pissed off, and I used a lot of F word and swearing. I'm sorry, and I was very angry because of the, the, the test. testing issue for the

doping. They did not support me for the anti-doping. And I told them as like, I said, why they didn't support me for this and I didn't understand this. I was very angry. I said, you guys need to wake up because a lot of people are, you know, cheating and stuff. And

it's a freaking joke. You guys are kind of protecting these guys and it shouldn't be like that. I mean, I was very angry. You know, it's like your fire, you know, I was very angry. and I didn't you know

I didn't I never went publicly never actually was already I wanted to change the system and I was very angry I was very angry that's why and they were like saying to me like

oh really you think so and now then I look back I know that they know but they I think I know I'm not stupid I know it's business if you promote a fight

you you spend million dollars doing promotion for a fight and the guy gets test positive so they lose a lot of money so it's not in their best interest right now to make the test, the best testing possible, because if the guy test positive, they lose money because if I got canceled. So I know this, but I told them in a way that I told them it might take a year that you're going

to lose money for a year, maybe because a lot of your main stars, a lot of your guys, a lot of people will fall and test positive. It might hurt the image of the sport, but after a year, people will be scared and it will put back everything straight. I told them, and we had a big discussion on that, but they were like, oh, really,

you really think so? They said that to me, but I do believe they know. I believe they pretend they didn't know, but I believe they do know that it's an issue. So now they're, they're partnered with Usada, and it's been several months.

Are you comfortable with where things are? Do you think enough is being done? Like, in this climate, could you come back, or do you still think more needs to be done? Look, my friend, look at real, man. This is the thing, I think.

I've got to tell you the truth. Please. Look. Okay. I read a lot of, you know, when you, you, you, your USDA get involved, I didn't say anything. Yeah. Before asking me what I think, I think it was a good idea. And it's better than it was.

It would never be perfect, but it's better than it was. It is better than it was. But is it the best that they can do? I'm not sure about that. You know, if it's the best they can do, they say it is the best, the higher standard and da-da-da. I would like, because these things need to be public. They need to make it public. Who they test?

What test positive? Because there is false positive. There is people that test false positive, and you need to know why. Who tests? Who tests and what do they test? They need to be public, and it's not public. And I think there's a purpose. problem in here, you know what I mean?

Is it better? Yes, it's better. But it's not perfect. And it will never be perfect. But if it terms of the best standard, no, it's not the best standard. And, but it is still better. But, yeah,

I think that there's a lot of, it has improved a lot, but it's not the best thing. And I read a lot of things. And I don't, you know, I don't say any name. Just go on Google. It's easy. You can read wonderful article, go on Google, and just have to read USADA controversy, USADA boxing controversy, and you'll find a lot of very interesting stuff. So I don't want to say any name. You're a smart guy.

Yes. The people that is listening are smart people. Go read about that. You'll find out, you'll find some very surprising stuff and evidence that I've occurred. and you'll see. Yeah, I believe some of those articles written on this very website, SB Nation. And you understand what I'm saying. You'll understand what I'm saying when I'm talking about the highest standard. When you were in Montreal doing the Media Day before UFC 186, you said something very interesting that not a lot of people caught.

You were asked about Reebok and you said, you know, if I came back, that might be a potential problem. What did you mean by that? Would you not be in favor of being a part of the Reebok deal if you fought again? Look, I don't know with every bug deal. My contract is different than people's contract.

I have a great team. I'm lucky. I have a great team of management behind me. Just the only thing I have to say, my contract is different than people's contract. I cannot comment on death because, you know,

my sponsors issue and things like that. but yeah I just say that it's different my contract is different than most people is that something that could stop you from coming back I could stop maybe UFC from having me coming back okay have you talked to them about this potential issue

when they met with you in Montreal when they sat no it's not my job I'm I'm when I'm when I'm competing my job is to fight in the octagon I have a team that fight for me

on legal right, on business, right? And this is not my fight. This is my management fight. And trust me, I'm confident I have the best in the world in that regard. I agree. A very great team. By the way, when they came to offer you a fight at 186, did they offer you an opponent? Remember when they came to meet with you in Montreal and they asked you to fight on the card in Montreal last year or earlier this year? Did they ever actually offer you an opponent? Did a name come out, or was it just, are you interested in coming back?

No, really. It was mostly, I didn't really remember. It was a text message, I believe, from Dana. I said, you want to come back? I said, no, I said, no, I said, no, I would not really not. I don't think it was an opponent. It's not a, I don't remember what was the text. I didn't keep kept it.

Sure. But it was like, hey, you want to fight in Montreal or something like that. I didn't care who it was. If it would be a three-foot midget or, for example, the best fighter and what I didn't care. I just was not ready. I was not ready for fighting. When you fight, you have to put yourself into a state of mind, and I was not there. Roy McDonald said last month that if you come back, it's for super fights and not the belt,

and everyone thought, or he said, when, and he sort of misspoke and everyone went crazy. Is that true? Are you only interested in superfights, or do you want to actually try to get the belt back if you do come back? No, I don't know. I don't even know if I want the belt or a super fight. I just don't know. I don't know. And things are moving so much right now.

And one thing for sure, there's a few guys that I will never fight. And it's not a question of money. It's a question of integrity and its friendship. There's guys that I'm friends with and I'm training that I would never fight. Rory is one of them. I would never fight Rory. I would never fight like guys like Rashad Evans. He's a friend.

He's like a brother for me, Rashad. I know him for too long. I know his family. You know what I mean? You know, you know my family and we're friends. The guys like this, I would never fight. Tom Breeze, you know, guys like this, I wouldn't. Even if they asked me $10 million, I would not fight.

I would never fight. When I was watching 189, I saw what happened to Rory. He was so close to getting that belt. It was such a devastating loss. I kept thinking, I wonder what George. George is thinking right now, seeing your friend, someone that you sort of brought along, you took under your wing, you know,

kind of stumble at the last minute. He was so close to getting that belt. Was that difficult for you to watch? Yeah, it was hard to watch. Unfortunately, yeah, I do believe he was winning the fight. Yeah. I believe he was ahead in the scorecard. And, you know, it's just sad. You know, I was watching the fight.

It was a great fight, by the way. and I believe Rory is the first tour of the division. He's still very young. You know, sometimes it's just not your time. It's just like maybe you zig when you should have zag and he got caught and I believe he will be champion. Maybe it was not just at the moment now, but I do believe he will be champion one day. Three last quick things, if I may. If Carlos Condit wins on January 2nd,

Does that drastically change your decision? Because you've often said that he beat you up worse than anyone. And I kind of feel from your interviews that that's where things started to change. You needed a long break after what Carlos did. You won the fight, but he hit you with some tough shots. He was unorthodox. Do you not want to go through that again? So if he wins, does that really make you think about things?

It will make me think differently, but I just don't know. You know, when you fight a guy like Carlos, let's say you would fight a guy like Johnny, you would fight a guy on like a, like, uh, Bobby, you have to put yourself through a different mindset because you're going through different opponents with different strengths. It's different, you know, and everybody has different attributes and different quality and different physicality. And, yeah, it's different. But I don't know if it has, I don't think, it doesn't, I don't know at the term of affecting my decision. If I will come back or not, I just don't know.

The MMA world is going. You're a good, you're a good interviewer, Ariel. You kept asking me the same question within a different way. You're a very slick person, very slick guy. Thank you, George. This isn't our first interview, by the way, so I'm sure you, unless you notice... I know. I'm just kidding.

But you're smart. I see you coming from different angle. It's very smart. It's like a fight, right? You've got to keep moving. You got to keep from different... A little jab here. I keep my hands up and moving around.

You know, I'm not getting hit by you. You know, you try different ways. But I see you coming. You're a slick guy. Me, okay, so let me ask you this. Sage Northcutt. Everyone's going crazy over him. He said, I want to meet George St. Pierre.

I want to go to TriStar. We saw pictures of you two training together. What do you make of Sage Northcutt? Yeah, he's very good. He's a great, very good athlete. Great raw, raw talent, you know? And he's, uh, and now with technique and he, he's surround himself by great people, you know, his dad.

He's a karate background guy, and I think he's going to be great. He's going to have a great future. He's got a great mentality, good work, I think. Seems to me like he has a lot of pride, which is very important for a fighter. He has a lot of pride. He's a very proud person, which is very important. That's what makes you strong. So I think he's going to be a great fighter.

He's already a great fighter. but you're going to become one of the force in his division. Perhaps reminds you of a young George St. Pierre? Yeah, but Sage North Cut is Sage North Cut. I'm George St. Pierre. George St. Pierre is George St. Pierre. He's good at what you do. I'm good at what I did.

So we're different people. Fair enough. Okay. Last thing, George. This is what Dana White said to the Los Angeles Times recently. Quote, It'd be great if George comes back. Yes, I love George St. Pierre.

amazing athlete, but comeback talk, I laugh at it. To be a world champion, you have to be hungry. That's not GSP, not even close, end quote. Are you hungry? Yeah, it's different ways of being hungry. You can be, and it's a good illustration. People, like I'm doing promotion for the new movie of Sylvester Stallone, the movie the movie creed

they explained about it you know like you can be poor and you know like have nothing in your life and be hungry

this is a way of being hungry but you can be rich and be hungry as well because you're you know that there's different ways of being hungry doesn't mean if you're wealthy and stuff

you're not hungry you understand what I mean yeah there's different ways of being hungry and I can I still can be hungry in a way. I can be still hungry than more, I can even be more hungry than people that have nothing, you know what I mean? Sure. Because I have a lot to lose. I have so much to lose that I'm scared of losing it and I don't want to lose it because of my pride. When I'm talking about the pride,

the pride is my most important strength. I'm a very proud person. And I would never want to go back and make a fool of myself and be humiliated because I'm a very proud guy. So, because I have so much to lose that that's what's going to make me hungry and be willing to do better than, than anyone. You understand what I mean? So there's different ways of being hungry. It's not only a guy that is poor as nothing. He needs to be hungry because they know why you, you know, I think you see us from this perspective,

but as a fighter, you can ask. there's different ways I've been hungry climate weather is hungry he's winning because he's angry because he's a proud

guy he's very proud you know what I mean yeah yeah George a pleasure as always thank you so much

this is an honor for me anytime I get to talk to you it's a huge pleasure and honor so thank you very much for the time today and please

if you do make a decision of any kind you can come back to your friend and we'll talk about it here on the show I'd love to

talk to you about that all right thank you bye there he is George St. Pierre. Some answers, some questions still linger, but always great to hear from him. Okay, let's move along. You talk about honors, you talk about legends of the sport, none bigger than our next guest. How about this? Back to back, going from George St. Pierre to the one and only Mirko Krocop, who joins us right now via the phone. Mirko, are you there?

I'm here. I'm here. Thank you very much for the time. I apologize for the delay. We got a little bit backed up, but again, thank you for your patience and the time. So a lot of people, No, no, no, it was very interesting. I was listening for the last five minutes, you know, your discussion with George Trump here. It was very interesting thing that he was saying, you know. Do you agree with him? About blood and about being hunger and the different, different ways of being, what does it mean?

Are you hungry or not, you know? There are so many different ways to be hungry, you know. And very interesting, he gave some very interesting answers. So I'm wondering, because here you are, you are now retired, you sort of agree with him that, you know, that hunger, maybe not the physical hunger, but the hunger to compete, to go out there to put your life and career on the line, that's no longer there for you anymore. You lost that. Definitely. No, no, definitely I agree with him, you know, so many different ways of being hungry, you know, hungry. You know, some people are motivated in the special at the beginning, you know, they have no money, you know, they want to make career. year they want to make name they want to make money but that's very good motive you know that's very good but but sometimes you are hungry and you don't want to lose your pride you know and I think it's it's it's a stronger motive than

just being hungry you know physically so let's talk about your situation I I understand what George Sanpia was was talking about I cannot understand it So around three weeks ago, you came out and surprised it's three weeks tomorrow. You came out and you wrote a post on your website saying that you were out of your fight against Anthony Hamilton and that you were walking away from the sport. You know, the injuries had caught up. You just can't do it anymore. And then after that, Usada comes out and says that you failed your drug test. And then you come out and have to respond to that and say that you told them that you had to, you know, use certain substances because you had a shoulder injury.

And then they come out and suspend you for. two years. How much does it bother you that it all went down this way, that if this truly is the end of Mirro Krokoff's legendary career, it happens like this. Listen, that's true, you know. I had a serious injury of my shoulder, you know, but it's not only thing, you know, and I have a broken muscle in a shoulder and tendon. There was a big question, is tendon in the shoulder is going to be broken or not, you know, and I just couldn't take a risk, and it was too painful for me. And I was definitely, I was definitely, I wasn't able to fight, you know.

And after Gonzaga fight, I also had an injury, you know, and of course I didn't talk about it. That's part of the job, you know. I had, during Gonzaga's preparations, I injured my knee again, again, you know. And I had already four surgeries on my right knee, which caused me a lot of trouble, you know, especially on the training, because when I'm kicking, I'm kicking with my left. I'm kicking with both legs on the training, actually, you know. But in the fight, 90% of the kicks I throw with the left one. And when you kick with the left one, you have to rotate your body on the right one.

And it was a huge pressure for my knee because my... It will be much easier if I injured my left leg, my left knee. And then I'm kicking with that leg and I feel, I feel no, no, no, no, no, no pressure, no problem. But since my left, since my right one was injured, you know, and every time, after every training, my knee gets swollen, you know, and I had to put ice and ice and ice. And somewhere during preparation, I don't know, I can't tell the moment. I felt that my knee was swollen all the time, you know, and after, I didn't want to check it before the fight and after the fight

I went it and a piece of of is it I don't know how to say it in English piece of not menace

but piece of something was floating in the knee and they had to it wasn't actually a real surgery you know and I went my I went in the morning to the hospital and they put me to sleep

and they cut they cut the knee and they took it out and they stitch it I wake up and same evening I went home, you know, but so many small injuries, and I also injured my tendon on my, on my right, on my leg. And that's why I wasn't able to take the fight during summer, because you have offered me a fight July or August, and I said, I can take it early, I can take it the beginning of December.

of December of October. And it happened that I had, and they scheduled me to fight the end of November. And I make it too long, there was a too long break between fights. I had to wait eight, eight months, you know, and it's such a long period. For a fighter in my age, you know, and I was training, you know. I was training right after those like a fight. I took one week off. I wait for the surgery.

But, you know, but I was riding. a bicycle. Two weeks later I would start starting with jogging with a pull-ups with so many different things but I didn't do wrestling you know and when I started with the preparation for this fight

and I start of course with two trainings a day two trainings a day and after seven or ten days my shoulder was simple it was over over trained you know over trained and muscle was broken and it was a

question is MR. So, MR. Show that my tendon was very close to be broken. And, of course, in the meantime, I took,

I didn't have time. I didn't have time to make some, to make calls before, because if I announced that I will, that on the doctor's recommendation, I will try,

I will take some grow hormone to try to heal, it would be okay, you know, but I, you know, it takes time. And I was, I didn't have,

I didn't have that, that luxury time. And they came to test me and I said, I took it, hey, you took it, but you didn't ask for permission, you know. But at the end of the day, you know, I'm full of injury and definitely I wouldn't be able to fight. And to wait another five, six months to the next fight, you know, when you are 41, I'm just not able to make such a long break between two fights, you know. So, I had to wait all months, eight months already. and four, five, six months more than a year to make a break between two fights.

I will injure myself again, you know. I cannot force myself to train like crazy to maintain the level of my body shape, not to be injured when the real preparation starts, you know. And at the end of the day, you know, I had 79 professional fights, K-1 Pride and UFC, and I think it's enough, you know. I think it's enough.

I turned 41 and two months ago, and I entered in 42, and I'm really full of such an injury, you know, and like a knee, like those tendons, like I had problem with discoshernia two years ago, and training doesn't make me happy anymore, you know. Training doesn't make me happy anymore, and I think that's the best solution. At the end of the day, every man comes to his head, to his end you know and I think that's the smartest decision for me you know I I just don't want to to go on the training I'm happy and I don't want to do a

special warming warming for the shoulder for the knees and to put some hot creams to warm it up to avoid another injuries you know and I think I had enough I think I had enough I had the long and successful career and But it got to stop one day, you know. Of course, it is still shock for me, but that's life. That's life. And I think definitely that is the best decision for me. So to be clear, even if they didn't come to test you, the injuries, all that stuff,

you wouldn't have been able to fight in Seoul, right? It had nothing to do with the test. Yeah, I would definitely cancel that fight. because last time I fought seriously. I fought with injury so many times, you know, but last time I fought seriously injured, it was against Roy Nelson, you know. I fought with,

Pat Berry was on the preparation with me, we had some sparring, you know, and I throw a hook, I throw a hook, and I felt a pain in my biceps, you know. And, okay, let's keep going, let's keep going, I throw another one and I felt terrible pain and my biceps was broken and and tendon was also broken and it was separated from the from the bone and it is serious injury serious but it happened

it happened seven days it was last sparring last paring last paring last round of the last paring during the pressure unbelievable what a jinx right and and uh and i decided to fight anyway Even doctor said that I won't be able to control my arm, et cetera, et cetera. But I decided to fight because same situation happened, you know, and I was waiting for seven months. I was preparing myself seven months for that fight, you know, since my last one. And I just didn't want to lose that fight and to wait another five, six months. I knew I was aware that I had to go for surgery and, you know,

that I will be out for next work. at least, at least five, six months, you know. And, but I took it. I took my, I took my chances. It wasn't a smart decision. And I said to myself,

never again, I won't fight if I'm not 100% trade. Never, never again. And now again, you know, and it will take me a few months to, to heal everything, you know, that I can start to teach it, but it's such a long period for me, you know, and

when I compare it with 2004 in Pride, I had eight fights. Fighting I think keeps me sharp. Right. It keeps me sharp. You know, I finish the fight, I take one

if I'm not injured, but most likely I wasn't injured during the fight. And one week, rest, one week easy trains, and then I start six weeks for the preparation. It's maximum two months. Maximum two months, two months, two months between two fights, is

perfect. It's perfect for me. In 2004, I had Exactly eight fights. And I was out, I was in a good shape, you know, and it was keeping me out of injury, you know, because if you make such a long, at least my body function like that. I don't know. Maybe some fighters are good, are okay with that, but I don't like it, you know, to make such a long break between two fights, you know. I just like to take one week off.

One week, I mean, I mean, easy training, you know, just some stretching and jogging and then one week a little bit harder and then start with the preparation, six weeks of preparations, and that's it, you know. That's the best. That's how my function, that's how my body function is the best, you know. But, of course, UFC is different, you know, too many fighters on the World Store and they're not able to offer that many fights. You know, even I got to say they offered me to fight July or August. You know, I talked with them, but I couldn't take the fight because of this.

injury of the injury I had knee surgery but it was okay knee was okay but the tendon in the leg was really painful you know because during the fight with Mazzaga I think you I think you you saw it was like to try to do submission some leg lock or whatever you know and he caught it good but of course I skate you know I felt nothing done but next morning when I wake up you know I wasn't able to walk normally Nothing was broken, nothing was broken, but I guess tendon was serious, it was stretched, and it was very painful. It was very painful. Believe it not, I still feel it.

Not that much, you know, but I still feel pain during training, you know, especially if I'm the bottom one and if I have to close the guard and if my opponent or sparring partner tries to open the guard off, it is so painful for me. still. So I think, you know, and when business doesn't makes you happy, if trainings are not a joy anymore, if it is too much pain involved, I think this is the best solution for me. Believe me, it was hard decision, but I think best for me. Considering how proud you are as a person and as an athlete, does it bother you that it ended this way, that, you know,

all this stuff happened at the end, and you couldn't go out on your own terms? Does that upset you? No, listen, listen, this is, that's life, you know. This is a violent sport, and in the most of the cases, the end is violent, you know. You leave the sport either from injury, some serious injury, or you lost three or four fights in a row, and your employer, your employer doesn't want to give you any more fights.

Right. That's said true. That's said true about the sport, you know. That's true. You know, is it injury or you will lose three or four fights and you will get fired? And, but that's the law in our sport. And that's how it works, you know. Of course, it would be the best if I could, if I could,

finish all three fights in the contract, you know, with three victories, you know, and then after the last fight in the cage, okay, guys, listen, this was my last fight. I will fight never again and I, but

it's, it's, it's not that, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it doesn't that way, no, it doesn't, actually, I don't know who, actually who, who, who, who say goodbye that way, you know, most of the people get injured or they, lost a fight, you know, and they are forced to retire. And I was lucky.

I was, I'm living with a, with a big victory, you know. And since I left UFC and I had 13 fights, 13 fights. And I was very successful. I won K-1 in the meantime. And I returned, I returned in UFC. I had a rematch with Gonzaga, which was very important fight for me. and I went in Japan and I beat two times their Japanese champion, you know, and I fought for a title against Atoshi.

I beat him twice with TKO and what else I can ask, you know, what else I can ask. So, okay, so, you know, your career is a legendary one. There's no doubt about it and, you know, the way we talk about you and the way, when you look back is there anything that you didn't do is there anything that you said ah if I could have done that one thing fought that one guy is there anything because I feel like you kind of did it all

you just sort of outlined it is there anything that comes to mind well no not not really not really no regrets no regret no what's the use what's the use of regretting you know I'm not that type of a person that will regret anything you know what's the use of

of feeling sorry for something know that you cannot change I'm practical I'm practical person and no regrets you know of course I would like I would like to I would like to change every loss I had yeah I would like to try to change it into the victory of course but listen this is that's life this is violent sport I fought and I compete with the top fighters on the planet you know and you can't you can't win each each fight that's a law that is a law in this sport you know and younger fighters are coming and coming new talents and it's impossible it's impossible to stay

untouched in this but i had i'm proud of my career and i have a really long career and uh and i pride of myself because uh at the end of the day i'm in in a certain way self self-made fighter you know i had never been camp big coaches and uh i came from kickboxing not from some it was very hard for me you know to learn how to survive on the ground it was very hard for me to learn how to do grappling

how to do so many things that I never met before you know I was I was a kickboxer and I was competing in K1 and but MMA is completely different thing but I find

I found strength and I found energy and I was very patient and I was I was I was I was learning a lot you know from the top from the top experts on that field you know so many people from Brazil came to I was paying I was paying instructions for the people at the end of the day I was I was training with Fabricio for two he was he was staying in my apartment for two years we were training together and it was great time you know and I have a lot of great memories and I really I really I don't regret for anything you know you mentioned earlier that

you're still kind of in shock over all of this, you know, three weeks later almost. Not because of this, because any time when my, I was aware that my retirement will come soon, you know, because due to so many injuries, believe me, I'm not able to drive a car longer than 20 minutes. I have a terrible pain in attendance, and nothing can change. Nothing can change. I was trying to, I was searching for help in the best polyclinics in Europe, you know and some some of them are one of them is one of the best in the world and but that it's too many too many too many too many too many damage you know too many damage and of course everything all of them said when you when you when you

decrease the level of your training pain will pain will pain will be and of course I'm not able to do high kicks anymore I will have to I will have to skip I will keep training, you know, after new year when I recover completely, you know, I don't want to get new injury. So far, this morning was my first training. I was doing just a bicycle, you know, and some stretching, you know. I'm not able to do anything with the upper part of my body because whatever I do, is it pull-ups, is it push-ups, is it bench-press, whatever, it includes the shoulder.

shoulder I just I just need to rest it and to heal completely but I will start training after New Year definitely and I will do anything everything you know I will I will I will doing the same same same type of trainings you know but of course only once a day and the worst thing for me is that I will have to stop doing high kicks so it it stretches my my my tendons and it creates a lot of pain to me unfortunately what I'm wondering is how are you dealing with the idea that you'll never fight again like Mirka Krocop to me is this this figure it's like did you cry was it I'm I'm listen that's why I'm

telling you I'm in shock yeah I'm in shock you know and I still I still I still don't go to sleep before three o'clock in the morning because so many things going through my head and it's not of course it's not about financial it's not about financial and thank God I'm secure men but that's my life

you know and that's the only life I knew so far you know trainings in the morning training in the evening and traveling all around the world to fight that that was my life last

20 years you know and when you stop it, when you stop it and everybody got to stop once, everybody, you know, that's how we, that we are just a human, nothing more, you know, I'm not a robot or something. And it's a shock, you know, it's a shock. Even I was aware that I was, I was fighting for 20 years, it's such a long career, There are so many fights, you know. At the end of the day, I had so many injuries, you know, I collected nine surgeries.

If I don't count, if I don't count, this last one, I don't count it as a real surgery. You know, they just cut, they just cut, took it out of the knee, you know, that piece of something that was floating and creating a lot of problems to me. Or if you want to count it, then it's 10th surgery, you know. It's a lot, you know. It's a lot. And especially, you know, problem with tendons, which can be solved only with less intensity of training, you know.

If I'm going to keep training twice a day, if there will be involved, a lot of high kicks because I have to train, that's my trademark, that's my specialty. And pain won't go, you know. I don't want to train. I don't want to fight under pain. And so definitely this is the best. best decision for me. So what do you think you're going to do now?

It will take time, you know, maybe one year, maybe year and a half, I will recover completely, you know, but I don't think, I don't think, you know, people always say, never say never. But, you know, in age of 43, I don't think it's a realistic option that I will be back and fight. So, you know, young fighters are coming at the end of the day. In the end of the day, at the end of the day, you know, you have to think about your health.

Even, even it sounds funny when the MMA fighters talking about health, you know, but that's true, you know, that's true.

What do you think you're going to do for the rest of your life? What kind of jobs? I would like, what do you think why I cannot sleep until 3 o'clock in the morning?

That's one of the, I really don't know. I really don't know. I was planning, I was planning, I didn't publish it. yet, but I'm telling you now, these days I will publish that I will,

after New Year when I recover, and I take a rest, I will do some seminars in Croatia. Kickboxing or MMA clubs, they will make, if they call me, I will come there, do seminars for free, in Croatia, for free, and I don't know.

The worst, the worst, biggest problem for me will be how to kill time, you know, training in the morning, that's okay. and how to kill the rest of the rest of the day, I don't know. I still don't know. But I think I will figure something out. Was it all worth it to you? You know, with the injuries and everything,

do you still feel like the whole career was worth it? Would you do it all over again? Oh, of course, of course. MMA and kickboxing martial arts is something special. and MMA and kickboxing too is the most beautiful sport to the planet for me. Even it is dangerous, it is violent, but I just love it. I just love it.

And I definitely, I would go to the same way again. If I could, if I had a chance, of course. It won't happen. Nobody can return the time, but you know what I mean. By the way, did you happen to see Holly home a couple weeks ago knockout Ronda Rousey with a head kick that, you know, kind of looked like vintage Crow Cop. What did you think of that?

Well, it was a great performance. To be honest, you know, and I have never seen a Holy Hall fight before. I heard, I heard before the fight that

she was a professional boxer. Yeah. And that she... But I thought, I thought, honestly, I thought it would be a need, but I haven't seen the girl fighting, you know, but I thought it would be just another

easy fight for Onda. And it turned to be a disaster for Onda, you know, and she whole home did it really good, you know, and she dominated, you know, if it happened after one minute or two minutes, in the first or second

minute of the fight, you know, people could say, you know, she was lucky, you know, but she had complete domination, you know, for the First, especially in the first time, they went on the ground, she survived and my congratulations to Holyhole. It was really, really something special, especially that high kick, you know, she caught her very good and she not found out.

That's the name of the business, you know. That's how it works in our business. You're not going to 100%. You make small mistake and you pay it with sleeping on the ground. I just wanted to ask you It is 100% true A couple more things that we'll let you go And thank you so much for the time

This has been unbelievable for us to have you on the show Before you got injured Before the news came out You wrote and I want to clear this up That you were a little upset That you couldn't wear the checker box On your shorts because of the Reebok deal Is that true?

And how much did you try to get that To be allowed by the UFC? Yeah, that's true I talked with UFC but you know that you see was more than correct I got to say there was more to the correct and they they just couldn't allow me to to wear to wear it you know it it was it was my trademark and and now when I look at you know so I was when I look it you know and from from from the position that I had I had the checkers in every

fight you know maybe you know maybe some higher force didn't want to me you know want to make a fight without them, you know. I'm not, I'm not someone, you know, religious lunatic or something, you know, but maybe it just, it just happened like that, you know. And I have them, if I could put, if I could put Croatia flag, you know, and, but they, they didn't allow it, you know. But there was more than correct, they explained if they allowed it to me, they have to allow it to every other fight.

I understand this is business, you know, they signed UFC has a contact with Reebok, and that's something that's something that's, that's something that's. I have to respect you know and there but I would I would feel definitely strange you know I would feel definitely strange to fight without that and it turned that I won't fight at all you know and maybe maybe maybe maybe maybe that is some message for me I don't know yeah I don't know I want to say again I'm not some some lunatic religious lunatic or something you know but maybe this is the best way for me so like I said you've had a legendary career if there's ever an

Hall of Fame, your first ballot, you've given us so many great memories. When you think back on your career, is there a fight, a moment, a conversation, something that sticks out as your favorite, is there one night that sticks out? When you think back on your unbelievable Hall of Fame, legendary career, I keep saying that over and over, there's no other way to say it, is there one moment that sticks out above the rest? It's really hard to say. I like every fight, you know, I was bleeding. and I was sweating for every fight. I went to do bloody preparations for each of them, you know,

but of course some fights will be bigger than other, a fight like my fight with Fedor, which is considered as one of the best, as one of the best fights in a heavyweight history. And, of course, my participation in Pride, Grand Prix, in 2006, I won. I won the championship, and I'm very proud

on winning the K-1 Grand Prix two years ago in Zagreb, you know, and three fights in one night, it's very hard, it's very hard. And I was very happy, you know, that if my career had to end, that it ended up with a fight against Gonzaga, you know, and it was good and it was tough fight, you know,

and at the end of the day I finish him with elbows, you know. I never did it before, you know, and it was a special night for me, too. Many to choose from, of course. Is there something you're going to miss? The crowd, the arenas, the training, what are you going to miss the most? Most likely, I will be in the training. I will stay in the gym, you know. and I will train my son.

My son is 13 and he's really talented. He's really talented. And I will invest my energy into him, you know, and I'll teach him how to fight. He's already, he's doing wrestling and jiu-jitsu now. Oh, wow. I already started before, you know, with stand up with him. He's also South Pole like me, and he can throw high-kick like crazy,

you know, he's just 13 years old, but he's a big, he's a big boy. For his age, he's a big boy. He's almost 70 kilograms, you know, and 175 centimeters tall. I don't know how you calculate it an inch, but for his age, he's enormously strong, you know. And even, to be honest, I wouldn't like him to went to the same way like I did, you know. It's a bloody sport and it's very hard for parents, especially for me. I know what does it mean, and I'm aware of everything that is part of the job, you know, and how dangerous it can be.

I wouldn't like to see my boy fighting, you know. But if he finds himself into the end, if he decide that he will fight, and of course I will support him, and I believe that he will have a great coach, And, but once again, I hope he won't. I hope he won't. I would like him to, to, to go, to train with me and to be a martial art expert, you know. But just, just for his health, just for him to be more confident and, et cetera, et cetera. But I wouldn't like him to start earning money.

his father did, you know, but if he decided to do it, I will support him, of course. I had to, my parents supported me, even it was very hard for them. But I would like him to finish the college and to do something different, you know, than I did. Well, Mirko, thank you so much. Thank you for this interview. I know you don't like to do a lot of interviews, so it means the world to me that you'd come on the show. Thank you for all the great fights, the great memories. a huge part of mixed martial arts history and kickboxing history.

And I think for a lot of people my age, you're a major reason why we fell in love with this sport. So I can't thank you enough for all those memories for sacrificing your body and for just being an unbelievable fighter to watch. Some of those fights, I mean, I'll never forget them. So truly a heartfelt thank you for me and the rest of the MMA community. I hope this isn't the last time I get a chance to speak to you. But what an honor this has been.

I really, truly, sincerely thank you for coming on the show. and I wish you all the best. I hope you get well soon. You get healthy soon, and you can resume your life in a nice manner. And we can see you training people and things of that nature. That's fine with me, just knowing that you're happy is, I think, for a lot of fans, a very important thing. So again, thank you very much. Enjoy retirement, and hopefully I'll get a chance to talk to you soon.

Thank you very much. What else I can say? And thank you very much for this warm word you just said. And I have no words anymore. Thank you very much, Harry. Okay, thank you, Mirko. All the best to you. There he is, the one and only Mirko Kroko.

Stopping by from Croatia, there is only one Mirko. There will only be one Mirko. I remember back in the day, I mean, if you would have told me 10 years ago that I'd be interviewing him under these circumstances, I mean, I'd say you're crazy. This guy was truly one of those figures that, in my opinion, was larger than life. I mean, this guy was the scariest mofo in the world, those head kicks. his demeanor. You know, you look at that famous clip with Mara Rinaloa when they punked him.

That was a scary man. You do not want to walk down an alley anywhere in the world and see Miracle Krocop. He was one of the most feared strikers in the history of the sport. If you have never seen those fights, it's great that we have fight pass now. You can probably watch all of them. The guy that came in the UFC wasn't quite the same, but gave us some amazing memories as well along the way. I remember the fight with Pat Barry and of course

it ends this way on a very sour note but let's not forget that the moment that really sort of changed everything for Mirko was the knockout against Gabriel Gonzaga and he got that one back at the end and that has to feel good

he got that one back in Poland not that long ago pretty amazing all the best to him what a great honor that was now let's go from one former kickboxing champion to the current glory heavyweight champion, the man who will be defending his title this Friday on ESPN 3. It airs here in the United States at 4 p.m. Eastern from

Amsterdam. There is a replay this Sunday in primetime at 8 p.m. Eastern on ESPN 2. One of the most feared strikers living and breathing in the world today. The one and only RICO Verhoeven joins us right now. RICO, how are you? I'm good. How are you? I'm doing great. Thank you so much for joining us. A lot to talk to you about, but I'm curious. We just had... Thanks for me. A pleasure. We just had Miracle Crowe Cup on the show. He said goodbye

for someone like you and your skill said. Was this a guy that you watched growing up that you aspire to be like? Yeah, no doubt, man. You know, back in the days you had so many great fighters. You had like Peter,

Mirro, Ernest. So, you know, all those fighters taking each other on, those were some amazing fights, man. And how about this timing? It only came to my attention after we booked you, but you're a training partner and friend of the new boxing heavyweight champion, Tyson Fury, who just defeated Vladimir Klitsko on Saturday.

Honestly, did you truly believe that he'd be able to do that? Yes, sir. Why? Not a lot of people believe. No, but the thing is, is because what you see on television is so different than what you feel when you're in front of this man. It's amazing. It's crazy, man. His skill set for the type of body that he has and the height is so amazing.

He uses his jab and his movement all so well that it, that it makes it so difficult to get close to him and touch him. Like Vladimir said, his movement was, it was just, he was just too quick for me. And if Vladimir says that, you know, he's, he's the best, he's been the best best boxer for 11 years. Right. So that's, that's serious. But what about, and I've been training, I've been training like, I've been helping

him for three weeks in this camp. So, yeah, and we've been training for years. so we know each other inside out. So, yeah, I knew I knew he was going to do this. Vladimir was getting older. It's not old, but in the sport, like, you know, 39 is old. And this guy, he's young. He's fearless.

He has a great skill set. He's high. He's fit. So, yeah, it was perfect. He most certainly is fearless. He was in the ring there with his hands behind his back, just begging Vladimir to punch him. He's a quirky guy.

He shows up the press conferences dressed up as Batman, says all kinds of things. He's singing in the middle of the ring to his, I believe, his girlfriend. Is he always like that? Yeah, but the guy you see like in the press conference and the talking and stuff like that, you know, that's just Tyson who's entertaining and just drawing attention to the fight and stuff like that, you know. But the reaction you saw, right?

be when the right after the announcement that he won that's that's the real tyson you know that's the emotion you saw it's just he's uh he's yeah he's such a good guy he's such an honest and humble guy man so that's that that that's how i know tyson but you know he's yeah he just he likes to talk so so this is an interesting situation for you like i said you returned to action this friday and and your last fight as far as kickboxing is concerned was in june you defeated benjamin I dig by you. Well, guess what? Your fight this Friday is also against Benjamin.

Is it hard for you to get motivated? I mean, I know he won a tournament and everything, but, like, you just fought the guy. Is it hard for you to get motivated for this? No, no, no, definitely not. Because, you know, it's just, this is what I do. This is my job. And I just like to perform.

And I just, every time glory announces a fight, I just hope that there's going to be a challenger. It doesn't matter who's there because everybody comes there to take your head off. So you always have to watch out. And especially with these young, fresh guys, you know, and like in the underdog position, I've been there. I've been in those shoes. And I know the fire that burns inside of those guys.

So, you know, and I'm still young. So I still have that fire as well. So, and I want to stay champion for years and years to come. So, you know, for me, it's just I want to provide for my family. I want to be champion. I want to show people that if you have a dream, that it's possible that your dream will get fulfilled if you just focus and work hard. And that's all. And I should clarify, his actual name is Benjamin Adik Bui, not a bagu.

So I wanted to get that right. And I apologize to him for that. I want him knocking my head off. It is a big deal, I'm sure, for you to fight in Amsterdam. but I understand also it's been a while since there have been any kind of major kickboxing events in Amsterdam. Why is that? Yeah, it's like, I think for me it's been like five years. Wow.

Five years ago that I fought in Amsterdam. And the last time I fought Amsterdam was in the Amsterdam Arena. So, yeah, it was for a big crowd like 25,000. So, you know, yeah, like 90% Dutch fans, of course. That's amazing. But yeah, there was a lot of problems with the government. And they say that like criminals come to the kickboxing events and stuff like that. And yeah, that just pulled the sport down.

And that's when that was the moment that the mayor of Amsterdam just said, hey, we're just stopping with kickboxing events. Big kickboxing. They still did small events, but the big events, no more. So like, I think like six months ago, we sat down with the mayor of Amsterdam, with the other heavyweight, former heavyweight champions. So with Semi Sheld, Ernesto Huss, Peter Ars, and Remy and I. So a lot of, a lot more like gym holders and stuff like that, you know, people like that just letting him feel the love we have for this sport, that they're not just all critical. criminals and just let them see that this sport brings so much more than than just violence

because a lot of people just see punching and kicking, but they don't see the discipline we bring to youth and just to everybody, you know, to teenagers and just to people and that it's good for, especially for teenagers who are growing up, that they get this discipline and they show the respect to older people. and stuff like that. So I think it's, yeah, you know, I think that was the moment we really hit him. And he really felt it. And he also told us like, hey, when there comes a request for a big event in Amsterdam. No problem. So he said when the request comes for a big event in Amsterdam, I'm definitely going to take it serious and try to make it happen.

So, and now it's there. So I'm, yeah, really happy about that. At this point, would you rather glory run more events in Europe? It seems like when they go to Europe, they get big crowds, a lot of attention. When they come to the U.S., it doesn't feel like as big of a deal. Would you prefer they stick to Europe these days? No, definitely not. Definitely not, because actually for me, to be honest, it doesn't matter if I fight for 10 people or 100,000.

thousand people. But the thing is of course you you get the crowds you feel what they bring you know they bring so much love and stuff like that so of course it's

to fight for a full arena is the best thing there is and especially for a home for a hometown arena is that's the that's you know a dream coming true. And definitely because I left Holland five years ago with the dream of wanted to become champion and now I'm back five years later and now I am the champion and I'm

defending my title so that's definitely a dream come true but I know of course this is a new sport coming coming into into America so you know it's it needs time it needs time and people you know need time to to get used to this sport and yeah need to embrace it and love it glory might be new but kickboxing has obviously been around a long time why do you think it hasn't taken off in america do you have any theories yeah of course kickboxing is not new for america but uh yeah what i meant it was like glory is new right so it's a it's a new uh it's a new organization with a with a new flow and a new production but the thing is uh like americans they they just like when their own uh people do very well in a sport yeah you know in

In basketball, you guys are great. In baseball and stuff like that, UFC, you guys are amazing. But in kickboxing, the level you guys haven't evolved so much yet. So, yeah, that's what I think. That's the reason, because if American people, fighters get their ass kicks, then it's not fun to watch, right? Right. So that's the same with soccer.

I don't like soccer, but when the Dutch national team play soccer, I'm there, you know, I'll check it, I watch it. So, that's, I think that's about the same with the American people. How big of a deal is your return in kickboxing, you know, major kickboxing's return to Amsterdam bin? Are you, are you doing, is it being covered by all the sports channels there? Are they expecting a lot of people? What are you feeling? Yeah, yeah, definitely, you know, definitely a lot of Dutch media jumped on it, of course. So, yeah, we're just, we're just hyping it up and just, just,

showing everybody that this is a beautiful sport and you know it's like years ago like like 10 15 years ago that maybe was the case that there was like criminals coming out of jail doing kickboxing and making their money with kickboxing but that's long gone so now we just want to show that everybody does it and we're all sportsmen and we're all athletes and show that we're normal people are just competing and just want to be the best. So this is what really interests me about you. Back in October, you made your MMA debut. You won your debut.

You look very impressive. First round TKO in two minutes and 11 seconds. Was this one and done for you, or do you want to continue pursuing an MMA career? What do you hope? I say yes. I would love to see it. With all due respect to the kickboxing, come on over to our side. That'd be fun.

What do you think? Tell us. Give us the scoop. Yeah. I'll give you a little bit. For me, it was definitely, it was a nice experience. And I started, yeah, for the people who didn't see the fight, you know, I started to fight off with the feeling like, hey, this is different, man. This is big.

And, you know, it always happened. The feeling in the ring, I can jump out whenever I want, you know. I can jump through the road. I said I'm out. And this was just the door closes and I'm like, now I'm trapped. Yeah. So that's it was different. And yeah, this guy just rushed onto me just right away, wanted to jump into a slug fest.

And I was, that's not really my game. We know I'm always calculated and always thinking about stuff. So I thought, okay, if I'm not going to trade with this guy, I give this guy the coin flip and maybe, you know, maybe he hits me. So he pressured me towards the cage. And then a lot of thoughts were going through my head. Like, what do I want to do? Do I want to punch?

Do I want to kick? Do we want to take them down? I can do everything. So, you know, there was just a lot of things going through my head. And so I thought, okay, let's get him tired, then stand back up, and let's see what happened. So I took him down. and yeah i could get a full mom position so yeah that was perfect and i could finish it from there so for me actually i wanted to go a little yeah maybe the second round or something just to get

some more experience but yeah you know we were finished after two minutes so uh it definitely definitely feels like i want some more this it was this was this was perfect you know this was amazing It was a nice experience, but it just, it has to fit, you know, it has to fit the schedule because I'm so busy with kickboxing and so much more stuff is going on, you know. I just did a big audition for a huge Hollywood movie. So, you know, it's, yeah, it's crazy. So if it fits, definitely going to go for a second MMA fight. Okay, so for now, kickboxing is your main focus, your true love.

it's only like you're not trying to get to the ufc basically kickboxing is where it's well or are you yeah you know it's uh it's for me it's um i just in a perfect world i would do i would do all three i would do boxing kickboxing and mhmma but i know if i want to be the best and something i have to focus on on one thing at the at the time so for now it's of of course when I was preparing for my MMA fight just focus on on MMA you know

grappling and jihitsu and everything wrestling and now I'm preparing for this kickboxing match so just kickboxing kickboxing

kickboxing but yeah let's see let's see what happens man for me it's in kickboxing I did so much I'm kickboxing since I was six years old so this MMA thing

brings like a new excitement And because Keyboxing is just repetition for me man, I did everything. I know the things I can do that I can do. So it's just repetition and getting better.

But with this MMA stuff, it's so much to learn again. And it pulls so much interest. So, yeah, let's see where it takes me. You know, it's, you never know what offer comes on the table or whatever that makes me think or get interesting.

Have people reached out to you? No, not yet. No one's reached out. Wow. No. I'm surprised. So for now, just enjoying myself. And yeah, let's see where this road takes me, man.

You sound like a young woman named Holly Holm, who was boxing her whole life and then said, you know what, I'm done with this. I'm going to go to MMA. And then she, of course, recently knocked out. Ron Rassie, that's what I'm foreseeing happening with Rico Verhoeven. What do you think? That would be a great scenario. That would definitely be great.

That would be amazing. I'd be the first kickbox to do that as well. A long time ago, I mean like two years ago, I called, do you know a guy named Bo Jackson? No. I heard his name before, but... Bo Jackson was a great football player, who also was a great baseball player,

one of the few guys to play in the NFL and Major League Baseball at the same time. But then he got injured. He had a major hip injury, and he had to retire shortly thereafter. And a long time ago, I called Tyrone Spong, the Bo Jackson of Combat Sports, because he was doing a little bit of kickboxing and MMA. But for now, things haven't really worked out for Tyrone Spong. Perhaps you're the Bo Jackson of Combat Sports with a little bit of kickboxing,

MMA boxing. What do you think of that? Yeah, that would be good. That's a big compliment. So I appreciate that a lot. So, yeah, who knows? Who knows? I'm not sure, man. I'm still young. I'm 26.

So I have so much time. And I've already been kickboxing champion for like three years. You know, I've been the youngest kickboxing champion in 20 years. The last one who did it at my age was like Peter Arts. So he was my idol. So that was amazing, you know, when I heard those facts, that Peter Ars was the youngest champion. And now since 20 years, I was the youngest. champion yeah that's that's amazing man you know there's just the whole storyline it's the same with

with my mama debut my first big kickbox victory was in romania oh wow so we were yeah so we were looking around for a good mma organization to work with and then we we found rxf and you know their production was nice big cage stuff like that so and it was in romania so just the the whole storyline just clicked. Was that a one-fight deal with them? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. One-fight deal, and then from there, you know, let's, like I said, you know, let's see what offer comes or whatever, you know.

I'm, yeah, I'm not stuck to anything, just not, just, it has to be interesting. That's, I think, the main part. So, as you mentioned, I mean, you've done a lot in a very short amount of time. You fought Peter, you fought Errol Zimmerman, you fought Sergey Jari Tanaf, some legends. Is there something you have to be? haven't done yet as far as facing off someone, maybe one of these older guys who's at the tail end of his career that you'd really like to do before your career is done. What's a dream of yours? A dream, yeah. No, I think I did everything, man. At 26? You did it all at 26?

No, I mean, in kickboxing. Yeah. In kickboxing, I did it all. Yeah. I think I've, I've beaten everybody that there still, that there still was, you know. Now a lot of guys just stopped fighting like Gita, Saaki, Peter, you know, Remy was already finished, retired before I became champion. So, yeah, you know, who's out there for me? I'll tell you my dream. What's the biggest stadium in the Netherlands, the biggest one for a kickboxing event?

Yeah, the Amsterdam Arena. The Amsterdam Arena. I'd like to see Rico Verhoeven defend his glory heavyweight title against the great Alistair Overeem. wouldn't that be something yeah it would be something but I don't really think it would be a

a full stadium tracking fight really yeah don't really think he's an he's an MMA fighter he's not a key boxer but he won the Grand Prix yeah I know

but you know the moment that people felt his his style he started losing So, you know, for me, it's, I think he jumped to, uh, to MMA just right in time because, you know, uh, uh, Remy beated him. So, uh, bother beat him. So, you know, for me, it's like he's, he's an M.A fight.

He's not a kickboxer, you know, and when, that's what I saw from, uh, from his, from his fights, you know, and especially when everything, uh, everything goes according to the rules. when he gets punched back, he doesn't like it. So, and I've trained with Ellister as well, you know, he's a good guy. But kickboxing is different than MMA. And, yeah, that's my vision on that. So you think that when things got tough for him, he ran to MMA? No, no, definitely not ran. You know, his deal with UFC was great, of course.

But I think it was the right time because he definitely would get, beat more. Wow. You know, because the more good kickboxes just stood up, you know, if he would fight a guy like Gita, I think he would have his hands full. If he would fight a guy like me, we would have his hands full. Maybe not back then, because then I was still a puppy. You still would have a baby.

But if we fight now, you know, it's a whole different ballgame, right? Fair enough. Well, I look forward to seeing you back in action. As I said, this Friday, it's Glory 26. In Amsterdam, it's Rico Verhoeven versus Benjamin Adegbouye for the glory heavyweight championship of the world. It's on ESPN 3 at 4 p.m. Eastern. You can catch it also on ESPN 2 here in the United States Sunday at 8 p.m. Eastern.

What a great honor. It has been for us to have you on the show, Rico. I wish you the best, and I look forward to talking to you soon. Yeah, thanks for having me, man. It's been an honor for me as well. You know, the UFC interview legend. So, no, it's, no, it's, it's an honor likewise, man. For me, it's been fun and, yeah, hope to talk to you more.

We will for sure. Thank you so much. Good luck on Friday. Thanks, man. I appreciate it. There he is. Rico Verhoeven, stopping by a lot of fun stuff and interesting comments. It's interesting.

He actually sounds a lot like Alistair over him, right? You can see just the way he speaks. I guess it's a Dutch thing, but that was a lot of fun as well. And I do urge you check out the card this Friday on ESPN3. I do like the ESPN 3. I know some people like to sort of laugh. Oh, it's the internet. But I like the functionality of that thing, of that website, I guess you can call it.

And then it replays on ESPN2 this Sunday. No longer on Spike TV. They're moving towards the worldwide leader, if you will. So good for the good people over at Glory. We appreciate them. Hoking us up with that interview. All right. 30 minutes or so left in the program.

What a show that was. Wow. And we're not even done. We still have your questions and comments. Mr. New York, Rick, are you there? I'm here. I'd imagine you're sort of like, you're airing things out over there

in that little booth of yours because you're so smitten by the glory heavyweight champion Rico Verhoeven. You're almost at a loss for words. I'm expecting. I don't know about that, but yeah, Rico's a great fighter. Good looking dude.

I'm sure he'll do great in the movies and all that stuff. I wonder what the Hollywood, you know, production he went out for is, but I'm sure we'll see. I'd be surprised if he gets it. Yes, a big one. Are you trying to say that I missed the follow-up question? Maybe.

Wow. After all that, here I am. Mirko gets a little emotional. Can't even speak at the end of the interview. How about you getting a little emotional, too? Well, Mirko to me, see, here's the thing about Mirko. People, look, if you go to jerrypark.com, go to jerrypark.com. I don't even know if the site still is running.

Is it still there? Mother F. It's not there. It's my brother-in-law. I was supposed to upkeep this. thing and how embarrassing is it. That's the one that started it for me.

You know, Jerry Park.com was a huge one. And, um, which was it? There's, oh, now here I am. Which was it? Was it, was it him versus Barnett? There's a poster on there at the top. Now I'm blanking, but there's, there's a poster of one of his best events from

Best Fights and a legendary pride event. I think it was, was it Barnett? Anyway, not important. That's at the top. I mean, Mirko, way back when, when I was just a pup to steal a line from Rico Verhoeven, I said something very stupid. And somehow it was caught on the underground. And it was just, it's the biggest regret of my career, just speaking when I thought at the time no one was really listening.

And I was completely unprofessional. It was just a dumb thing to say. And it blew up into this whole thing. I thought my career was over. It was ridiculous. And it killed me so much because Mirko Krocop, no joke. Like, top five favorites for me growing up. up. I mean, how could you not? Use everything that you loved about MMA, the the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the

end up the end up, the, the end up, and so for me, Mirko, you know, doing this first interview, since this all went down, I know he was on some TV show, but since the suspension and all that, I mean, that's a huge deal. I called him up on the phone on, on Thursday during Thanksgiving. I didn't think he would answer. I know he doesn't love talking to the media and I'm like, hi, this is Ariel Juani. He's like, oh yeah, Ariel,

I would love to come on your show. You've always been, you know, very nice to me when we spoke. There was a long time. Remember, I couldn't get him? Remember all those UFC events that I went to, I never interviewed him once. All those fights, he was always ducking the media

and whatnot. And it was maybe like two year-end shows ago. Remember I said that my goal was to get Miracle on the show? Oh, yes. So, and I believe it was the guys at Glory. that got it done. It was the guys at glory

that got it done. So Mirko means a lot and I think he means a lot to a lot of people. I mean, a little bit before your time and you started watching the whole like Sage Northcut

Ronda Rousey era but trust me on this Mirko's an important figure in this sport. Are those even the same era? Yeah, I started watching this Saturday. It was a fun event.

I watched the Korean card and now I'm a fan. The whole page Vanzan era and all that. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, obviously whenever we can have a miracle on,

it's a great moment and I know, you know, you have a real personal kind of affectation. It kind of sucks. It sucks that it went down that way. I know he kind of, he swept it under the rug, but it's sort of like one of these things like GSP,

not GSP, the Anderson, because he's being honest about it. He's saying that he told them, but it sucks that the first time the whole USADA thing happens and he has to retire. It's going to go away. Oh, this will not be his legacy. When we look back on Mirko, this is going to be, I wouldn't be surprised if it's not even mentioned.

Like, nobody's even going to remember this. In a way, I sort of wish that he retired in the cage. If we all knew who was going to go down this way, and I'm sure he would say the same, if he retired in the cage after beating Gonzaga, avenging that loss, would have been perfect. Perfect moment. It was funny that he said, you know, which fighter goes out on top, and we just spoke to GSP, and he kind of went out on top.

But is he done? That's the real question. Is that the question? What do you think after hearing that? No, I don't think. I don't think he's done. Yeah. Sounds like it.

Are you in favor of him returning? No, because I think his legacy is so cemented. There's nothing left for George to do. I do believe that distance makes the heart grow fonder as far as the public is concerned. Oh, I mean, from his perspective, he's a competitor. He's, you know, an athlete who has been at the top of the sport and probably thinks he can still be there. And as far as I'm concerned, you know, I think he would still be able to be there. So giving it, you know, another go is, you know, probably something that he's considering.

As far as me, though, I would not look at George differently if he, you know, comes back. or doesn't, like, I think his legacy is, is perfect just the way it is. He wouldn't need to do another thing to be one of the best of all time. What about, by the way, what about, like, the taking the belt away and the whole press conference thing? It's crazy. Yeah, I mean, he gave a lot of good stuff there, especially, you know, the stuff about him being very vocal about drug testing. Yeah. And saying, you know, I'm not dumb.

I know these things. things and kind of it seemed like being met with deaf ears. So, uh, his, his legacy, I think, you know, he's doing great things for his legacy even after retirement and not necessarily anything to do with fighting. Just the, the idea that he was kind of beating the drum on the way out, um, before anybody really was taking up that cause much. Uh, and it seemed to have been effective. So anyway, uh, let's, let's answer some questions here.

Okay. MMA beat. You guys addressed On Wednesday's MMA beat The panel discussed if there was a case to be made For the rousy cyborg fight No mention was made For the potential interest

That a home cyborg fight could generate On paper it would be a great style matchup Provided Cyborg can make 135 And the winner then can face Ronda at USC 200 Any thoughts on that matchup? Well I don't think Holly Holm is going to be able to fight Because they're pretty much book

Like she's not going to be able to come. They're pretty much booked up until Super Bowl weekend. And I don't think she's fighting Super Bowl weekend. And then we know that March, they're going to Brazil for the pay-per-view show. And then we know that in April it's probably going to be John Jones, Daniel Cormier. And then so the next available one is Memorial Day weekend. There's no way that she's going to turn around and fight two months later at UFC 200. So I doubt she gets two fights in.

Okay, fair enough. Yeah, of course. I'd love to see Cyborg versus Hollyholm. I'd love to see Cyborg, period, versus anyone. in the UFC's Bantamweight Division. All we were saying was the loss by Ronda Rousey to Holly Home doesn't make me less interested in the Ronda Rousey's Chris Cyborg fight. That's all.

But to me, I think it's a given that I'd want to see, of course I want to see Cyborg versus Holly. I want to see Cyborg versus Misha Tate. I want to see Cyborg versus all of these people. A, can she make 135? That's, you know, forgetting about all that? Yeah. I mean, I think it goes without saying.

This is what always happens when these champions fall. We talked about this meet. I think it was like two weeks ago. we touch on this very specifically that, you know, when a dominant champion falls, all these matchups open up. There's so many interesting things that can be done here. And this is that case. Like, you know, Misha Tate has a new shine on her with Ronda losing and Holly Holm, obviously, has matchups in the wings now. So there's plenty to think about here. Yeah. Female Fighter of the Year, Holly or Yowna. What the heck? We're giving out our awards now.

It's funny that you bring this up because we were just talking about this before the program. So, okay, here's the schedule. We have a show today, November 30th. We have another show next week, of course, huge week to come in Las Vegas. So that's December 7th, yes? And then we have a show following the madness in Las Vegas, UFC 194, etc. That will be on December 14th. Then we have a two-week break. Now, this is not, I don't want you to come at me. And by the way, while we're talking about it, to all those people who said, bro, you're slipping. How can you skip a week post-193?

I can't believe that you wouldn't do a show. You don't care about your fans. The MMA hour is slipping. And then, of course, it comes out that we were in Albuquerque with John Jones and getting all that other stuff. I didn't get all of your apologies. I may have gotten one or two. But how many times do I have to tell you, trust me?

Can you trust me? I'm never going to leave you hanging. If I'm not there, I'm doing something else. But I will say this, those two weeks, 21st, 28th, we are off. So that's planned. It's a break. It's a chance to recharge our batteries. It's a chance for you to miss us.

And then we return the week after UFC 195. Excuse me, the Monday after UFC 195. So that's January 4th, I believe. And that will be our award show. Because I don't want to do it the show after 194 and then the show before Orlando because there's still the big Orlando card. Dosanjos versus Seroni. There's Alastair Overeign versus JDS.

You can't do an award show before a big event like that. So we have to wait until after, and I don't mind first week of January. Let's look back on the year. The entire year's over. Even Fador coming back. We got to account for all of that. So, all that being said, I'm not going to give you

my women's fighter of the year now. Why would I do that? Why would I? There's still a lot more to consider. Stay tuned. The Monday after the new year. The first Monday of the new year. We'll hit you with the answer. Do you want to weigh in on this?

It's an opportunity to give a plug. Come on, man. Oh, that's what that was. Okay, I didn't know you thought like that. I'm impressed. How dare you? Okay. Ever considered more boxers?

Would just like to know if you have ever considered to feature more boxers on the show. Yes. With your interviews with personalities like Roy Jones Jr. and Freddie Roach being some of my favorites, it would be great to see that more frequently. We'd love to see the likes of Tyson

Fury appear as he's such an interesting, outspoken, and entertaining character that I think would be a great addition to the show. Look, I don't want to stray too far away, but, and I don't want to pat myself on the back, give myself the old Barry Horowitz, but I have a lot to offer here. I'm not just a one-trick pony. I could talk MMA. I could talk boxing. I could talk kickboxing. Sure, I call them Benjamin Adigbuy, or I dig Bayou, whatever I said, but I got it right. You did get it right. I got to tell you, I'm fascinated by type of Dyson Fury. Did you watch that? Of course. I mean, first of all, I wasn't being an MMA hipster like our friend Devin was saying, or is it Devon? DeVon, no, it's Devin. I wasn't

being a hipster. I actually found it fascinating when the current heavyweight champion, a man who had been reigning for the past 11 years who had not been defeated, was getting systematically, I mean, it wasn't even going to broken down. I mean, he was just gun shy. I mean, he couldn't even pull the trigger once. It was unbelievable. He was like throwing, who was landing one punch around. It was crazy.

That to me was fascinating. Again, I don't watch this stuff for the violence. I don't watch this stuff for the heads bouncing off the canvas. It's true. I find the chess match, the tactic, all that.

I find that to be very interesting. It's why I never thought George St. Pierre was boring. I found that fight to be bizarrely fascinating. and even Tyson Fury with his hands behind his back, I mean, all that stuff. And then you top off the whole damn thing with that song in the middle of the ring. It was incredible. So I find Tyson Fury to be interesting. I mean, Cotto Canelo, I watched that.

I watched Luce Mbutei Saturday night on Showtime. I love boxing. I think we have a good mix. I think when we have boxing, kickboxing, even wrestling, like, guess when it's appropriate, it makes sense. So, yeah, you can count on more of that. If you want me to talk about why the term posterizing is ridiculously outdated, I could do that as well. No, let's avoid that. I think we were touched on that earlier. If you want me to talk about, you know, the Blue J signing J.A. Hap, I could talk about that as well.

So I'm very versatile. Next question. Ariel, what vibe did you get from the John Bones Jones during the walkout on MMAB? You didn't really give away your own impression. Did he seem different to you compared to other interviews you had had with him? and now that the media consensus seems to be that Jones should stop acting heel slash trying to create a persona of any kind instead just relax of it. Being one of the loudest voices crying for Jones to be more of a heel and nurturing his persona, WWF style a few years back, have you reflected on this?

Have you changed your stance and why? Any larger implications from that? It's a lot of questions. So let's start with the first part. Was he different when you talk to him than in the past? Okay, first before I answer that, some some breaking news that may not sound like it has anything to do with mMA but it's very interesting to people who live here in new york and if you know anything about the history of m mary in new york

you'll find this to be very interesting sheldon silver the ex-new york assembly speaker has been found guilty on all accounts so this is from the new york times sheldon silver an assemblyman who rose from the lower east side to become one of new york state's most powerful politicians was found guilty on monday in a federal corruption trial ending a case that was was capstone, that was the capstone of the government's efforts to expose the semy culture of influence peddling in Albany. Mr. Silver is 71, a Democrat who served more than two decades as the assembly speaker before he was forced to resign after his arrest in January, will automatically forfeit the assembly seat to which he was first elected nearly 40 years ago.

Now, why is this so interesting? Well, many people believe that it was Sheldon Silver who refused to allow MMA, the bill to legalize MMA, to be brought up for a vote after passing through the Senate, what, like five, six times under his watch? He wouldn't even allow it to be brought up for a vote. For a bill to be legalized in the state in New York, it has to pass through the Senate, and it did unanimously a handful, if not more times through the Senate, and the assembly. It has to be sort of this two-prong approach, and he wouldn't even allow it to be brought up for a vote.

Very strong ties to the unions here, and he, I mean, that in its own right was corrupt. So who knows what else he was doing? Well, clearly he was guilty of a lot of stuff. So anyhow, he's out of power. He's going away. He was a major reason why MMA was not legalized here in the state of New York. Now, does his conviction mean MMA is going to be legalized in 2016? No, there are new people in power.

They still have a lot of influence. The unions do. There's a lot of politics, believe it or not, in politics, in Albany. But, you know, hey, a guy who appears to have not been 100% kosher, apparently, according to the courts today, got what he deserved. So I thought that was very interesting. Now, back to...

Before we move on from that, do you think that'll have any impact on it? Do you think that we'll look back... You know, whoever is... No, because... Judge and jury for this will look back and say his influence was one thing that prominently kept this out, or at least was assumed to,

and now it's been revealed that he might not have been, you know, the best guy and had shady politics. Would that be something that they could, you know, factor in? Is there an impact from that? Or is it just good riddance and now he's gone? Well, I mean, I'm not going to pretend to be some kind of expert on Albany politics, but I will say that despite the fact that I truly believe MMA being legalized here in New York would generate a lot of revenue that isn't being generated right now, I do think that in the grand scheme of things, it's not a major concern. Yeah, right now. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of other stuff going on. But it just goes to show that if he was

doing this to our little sport, what else was the guy doing? And he had been in power for so long. I'm sure he's done much, much worse. The part was just like, he's like, what? You wouldn't even bring it up for a vote? Come on, man. It's just crazy. All right, John, was he different when you talk to him this time than other times? Okay, that's the first question here. That's the big question. That's the big question. I do believe that he was different in the sense that, A, he was willing to talk about all this. It's a lot of stuff that Forget about the accident in April. He never talked about the Gustafin fight, that fight week. He didn't talk about the partying, the marijuana, all that stuff. He's never really talked about any of that.

And so I think that that was a major first step for him. I think at first he was a little bit nervous. I think once we got through, you know, the incident and some of his partying and all that, he started to warm up. I think that when he speaks about the UFC, you can tell that there's conviction there, and there's still an open wound. and, you know, this is something he still feels very strongly about. But in the end, I do believe that, you know, actions speak louder than words.

If you look at his social media, if you talk to his people, it does seem like he's focused that he's 100%, you know, dedicated to getting back on track, to getting the belt back. But what happens when he gets the belt? You know, what happens when everything's back in order? Who knows? I mean, this guy has been stripped of essentially everything. Not just his belt, sponsors, his, you know, his public persona. everyone took a crap on that, his dignity.

I mean, he did a pretty horrible thing. And I think he fessed up to it as best as he could. I saw some people weigh in and say like, oh, you know, he's a narcissist. He's a sociopath. I mean, who knows? To me, I just want to see the real John Jones. You know, this whole thing. We've talked about this and sort of my 180 on it.

Like the heel thing, all that. I don't really care about that anymore. The fact that we even have to talk about it speaks volumes as to where. what kind of persona he gave us in the first place. It didn't feel real. And then he tried to be something else and that didn't feel real. Just be yourself, man. If being yourself is swearing in public and all that,

like even towards the end, you notice he said the S word one time. I even think he said the F word. Just be yourself. Just be how you are. And I think that's very important. So I don't know if I can sit here and say, okay, he's 100% different. He's a change, man, all that.

I don't think that you can 100% change in the span of three, four months. I don't know if that's actually possible. but from the day I spent with him, I can tell you, A, even though he has to go and talk to those kids, I genuinely feel like he enjoys it. I think it's very, it's almost like therapeutic for him. I think he likes, especially the younger kids, like the five, six-year-olds, I think it reminds him of his own kids, and I think he enjoys that. And I think that he was nervous doing that interview. I think it was a big deal for him. I think he got a lot off his chest. There's probably a lot more that he'd love to get off his chest. Maybe that'll come and do time. I think Daniel,

is the perfect guy to be waiting for him because he gives him that extra push, whether or not he wants to admit it. I think the stars are realigning for John Jones. You know, will he keep his head down and continue to do the right thing? Only time will tell. So I think we're in a good spot with him right now. He got a sponsor, probably more to come, but only time will tell. That's not the answer maybe that you're looking for,

but I don't think it's fair to say he's 100% of change man and everything's good, blah, blah, blah. I don't think it's fair to say that about any human being. And I think for me, I was watching that interview, and the most interesting part, I'm sure that people wanted to hear about the incident, people wanted to hear about how he feels about Cormier, all that stuff. The most interesting thing to me was when you asked him, have we ever seen the real John Jones? And he gave a really, really good and honest answer about the fact that nobody's any one thing. I'm not a good guy, I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a heel, I'm not a, what's it called, baby face? you've seen me as a father, you've seen me, you know, as a fighter, and just the fact that everybody's personality is multifaceted. There's not anybody who's any one thing. And I think, you know, just because we see these glimpses, it's very quick to, people are very quick to kind of put people in a box and say,

you know, now John Jones is being this heel character, he's being this bad guy, when really it's just, you know, one aspect of a much larger persona. So I don't think, you know, I think we've seen the real John Jones, Jones throughout all of this. And part of that was him trying to fake something. Part of that was him trying to put on a different mask. But at all times, you know, it was a decision made by this, this human, this person that we can all identify with who's John Jones. And I thought that was, you know, a really like revealing moment and something that I had been kind of thinking about,

but couldn't articulate as well as he did. So I thought that was like really one of the most interesting parts of that interview. And I will also say that, let's be honest, John Jones gave us a lot of mixed messages. You know, he was the choir boy, he was squeaky clean, he took down the mugger the day he won the belt, but then he gets into this car accident. Sure. You know, in 2012, and then, you know, you think he's doing this and that, and then he, the cocaine thing. And then this thing happens, though. Is that a mixed message, though? It is a mixed message. If you're, if you're a good thing, and conversely, can you do a bad thing if you're a good person? I feel like there's not...

It seemed to pile up. Remember when... When John Jones got into that accident, right? A month before, he said, Nike's sponsoring me... Oh, the UFC is sponsoring me. He said, because I'm not going to get into any DUIs. And at that point, this is 2012,

not that far away from when he won the belt. I think he was just championed for a year and change at that point. The title fight against Shogun was in 2011 in March, in Newark. So it was shocking. It was like, what? John Jones, car accident, Bentley, girls, TMZ, what is going on here? And then, you know, things start to come out. So to me, it's like, what is going on?

Like, if Chris Wyden, if Demetrius Johnson, get into a car accident like that, I'll be like, what the heck is going on here? That's a mixed message. Because to me, I hold those guys in the highest regard. I think they're familymen. They're, you know, they seem to be religious, all that stuff. So it's like... I see your point, but I also think that those are cultivated. We don't know.

We never know. and you know go back to that press conference UFC 128 when he's talking about the mugger i mean the guy is like he's squeaky clean he's just wide-eyed he's innocent i doubt he was squeaky clean oh we've come to find out that no no even before that though at any point like i i just think um maybe we wanted him to be squeaky clean maybe we tried to force this idea a certain persona for him and that's that's what we got and then we see what happened to the floyd Floyd Floyd went from pretty boy Floyd to money Mayweather. And you see what happened when he fought De La Jolla and 24-7, that first one. He's throwing around the money and he's all this stuff. And then we see, wow, look what happened to Floyd.

And then we see, you know, Jones with the beard and the sunglasses and the deleting things. And we're like, hey, John, guess what, buddy, if you act like a heel, you'll make a lot of money. But all that, I mean, some people can go, you know, some people can live like that. Some people can get away with that. Some people can, John Jones just need to be himself. Because it seems like when he tries to do something else and, you know, overthink things. and try to be someone that he wants to be or he thinks his parents want him to be or the fans want him to be.

It just gets too complicated. Just be yourself, man. And some people will love you, some people will hate you. I was talking to some people and they were telling me, like, back in the day, John Jones would, you know,

would obsess over an Instagram post and think about it for two hours. Did I write this right? Do I look good? Did I say this the right way? You can't be like that. You just got to be yourself. And I'm starting to feel like he's coming to terms

with who he is. It's going to take time. Maybe it'll never happen. But I think that, that we're in a good spot with him, but again, I think only time will tell. Okay, so what were your thoughts about John expressing his displeasure with the UFC during the interview? Were you surprised to hear him speak so openly about that? And do you think the relationship between John and the UFC can be improved moving forward?

Honestly, I wasn't very surprised because, you know, I mean, there were certain things like what he said about them coming. The one line that stood out the most, and they have since reached out to us and refuted it, and, you know, we should have gotten their side. There's no doubt about it. It's when he said the first time they came to see me in Albuquerque was to take my title away. He's like, damn. You know what I mean?

The way he said it, it almost felt like it hurt him. And I still think 151 hurts, the sport killer comments hurt, all that stuff. I think it all hurts. But I definitely think it's in their best interest, both of them. Especially when you consider the fact that Ronda just lost, Connor could lose, John Jones is going to be sitting there. We talked about this. you know that this is a major opportunity for them to repatch things especially if they get into msg it works better for both of them if they're on the same side if the ufc is invested in john if he's invested in them it just works better for all involved they don't have to be best friends he said to me last year in baltimore i'll never be chuckled out to them and maybe he won't and he doesn't have to be but to me there came a point where it felt like they weren't doing the most possible to promote this guy and that

And that's a shame because I think he's the greatest of all time. Well, maybe this timeout, maybe these comments will get them to come back to the table and say, how do we fix this? How do we put 151 behind us? How do we fix everything? How do we get on the same page? How do we work together to make you into the biggest start possible to make the most amount of money for all of us? I think that's the important thing.

John Jones is going to be good for business, especially if he can get his head right and keep his personal life aside. John Jones is going to be good for business. So it behooves both of them to really patch it up and move forward with John as one of the faces. But I will say also that those comments, positive or negative, I think in a weird way almost endears him to the public. Because now they're saying, oh, look, John Jones is speaking up. He's finally sticking up for himself. He's finally. The comments I got, I mean, we could talk about a few people here, there, some outlets.

I mean, it was 99% positive in his favor. Forget about like, oh, congrats on getting an interview. People were saying, like, wow, that's the first time I felt like I saw the real John Jones. terms of the UFC stuff, though, I don't feel like he's ever hid that, really. I feel like this may have been the most he's been open, but I don't think this is the first time we've kind of seen that crack in the relationship. Oh, it's been brewing. After 151, things were changed. 100%. And this was finally everything's out in the open. It definitely has been brewing. I could have honestly done a full second hour with him. There's so much to discuss. And hopefully in time,

more questions will be answered. But right now, John Jones, I mean, the comeback story, everyone loves it, the rivalry with Daniel, him as a challenger, the way he'll be promoted. This is incredibly fascinating stuff as we head into 2016. Speaking of the comeback, how would John Jones do versus the top of the heavyweight division, top 10 heavy weights? Man, I wouldn't bet against them. I think John Jones could be the best at heavyweight as well. I wouldn't bet against them.

I mean, he said it. Well, especially when you think about the guys who are up there now, it's not the Brock Lesnar's at, you know, 280 plus. It's, you know, guys like Verdume and Kane, who are not huge heavyweights. Verdume is big, but he's more long than, you know, this big, beefy, muscular guy. I think John would definitely have a good shot. Now, he would lose some of his advantages.

His length in the light heavyweight division is such a huge advantage for him. But I wouldn't, yeah, I wouldn't bet against John Jones at any weight class. Especially not now. He really seems to be into this working out thing. I mean, remember, this is a guy who had a point. pop belly in between fights. He didn't live in Albuquerque. He would just sit on his couch, play video games, and get fat. He's got Greg Jackson and Mike Winklejohn and Brandon Gibson in his year telling him to come to the gym, get in shape, all that stuff. It's possible that

we have not seen the best from the greatest of all time, and that's a pretty scary thing. Do you think this is the question of the day? Do you think Benson Henderson will be back in the UFC? Oh, wow. Is he back or is he not back? Man, what a tough question. Can I just say, I just want to expand quickly on what I was saying at the top there. I mean, this is such an interesting story because it's so rare in MMA for a top fighter to come out in his own way. He didn't really come out and say, but he's say, look, I'm going to play this thing out. I'm going to roll the dice. I'm going to be a free agent.

I'm going to test the waters. I'm happy in the UFC. I'll retire in the UFC. That's what he said at the press conference. But I want to test the waters. I want to know how much I'm worth. This is a common occurrence in every single other sport. In our sport, it's a big deal because it very rarely happens.

Things are kept close to the vest. guys are re-signed before their contract expires. And I think there's nothing wrong with it. I think what Josh Thompson has been saying is not a negative towards the UFC or any promotion. Find out how much a word. That's the free market that we should be living in. And that's what every athlete, every person should find out how much they're worth. That's just you trying to get what you can while you're at the top of your game while you're in your prime, all that stuff.

So Benson and going out and rolling the dice and fighting and winning. and I would say his stock has never been higher. I mean, after what he did to Brandon Thatch, that was one of the most inspirational wins in UFC history. And then, you know, the Mazvedal thing, not as much, but he's on a winning streak now. People aren't thinking of him as this sort of boring point fighter or squeaking out victories,

even though it was a close one on Saturday. It's different than when he was champion. He seems to be going for it. He's likable. It's going to be so interesting to see how this thing plays out. It really is. I think end of the day, he resigns with the UFC. I don't think they want him to leave.

leave. I think this is a guy who can fight at 155, 170. I think now that Pettus isn't currently the champion, there's an opening for him. I know he lost the RDA, but it can be sold in a certain way because of, you know, the way it happened. But I kind of want to see him run a little bit at 170 here. All that being said, this is something, this is someone that Beltor really probably wants. This is someone that, as a result of that, the UFC should keep and give him what he's worth. But, you know, this is a new part of the sport as well, the evolution from the USADA of the Reebok. guys now, you know, just letting this thing play out, becoming free agents, rolling the dice, seeing what's out there.

I think it's good for everyone involved. I really do. And, you know, I wish him the best with it. I really am interested to see how it all plays out. Yeah, I think it's interesting and I think it's going to become more commonplace. It's not, you know, there's Gilbert Melendez, I believe, you know, made it clear that he was willing to do something similar to this. And there's other examples that just are similar, may not be exactly the same.

Josh Thompson, obviously. But again, Josh, Phil Davis, different. Those guys were coming off losses. You know, Benson is a main eventer who's coming off wins. I mean, he could have lost on Saturday. Sure, but I'm saying, like, when those guys' contract were up, they were coming off losses. This is a guy who's coming off win. So it's more like Gilbert in the sense that Gilbert was coming off 166.

Great fight against Diego Sanchez. There was a lot to be done, right? So that's what it reminds me more of than Phil Davis and Josh Thompson. and the UFC stepped up, and not only did they re-sign him, they gave him tough, they gave him some TV stuff, they gave him a lot. Yeah. Fascinating. It's interesting, for sure.

Okay. Skip this. Doho Choi, after another impressive victory, Du Ho Choi is looking like he could be an interesting prospect in the division. What do you think should be next for the Korean Superboy and how far do you think he can go? How important do you think it is for the USC to have young prospects when it comes to growing a market such as Korea? Oh, it's incredibly important. Just look at Ireland, look at what George St. Pierre did in Montreal.

I mean, Rico Verhoeven said something very interesting and 100% correct when talking about why kickboxing isn't as popular here in the United States. It's the same reason, in my opinion, why for a very long time, hockey has not been popular here or even soccer to a degree. Americans love their own. They want to root for their own. They have that in the NFL. They have that in the NBA. They have it to a lesser degree in Major League Baseball, but when Major League Baseball was really, you know, America's pastime, all that, they definitely had it.

They don't have it in kickboxing. And you need those guys or females in other markets around the world to truly grow those markets. So yeah, it's incredibly important. Choi is very impressive. I mean, he had a long layoff, but to finish Sam Cecilia like that, super impressive as well. And that crowd seemed very into it. I mean, can I just say 8 a.m. to 10 a.m. on a Saturday morning to me is the greatest time ever. If I could get every card like that, it would be incredible.

If I have to move to Australia to make it happen, just so I can watch the events at that hour, would be tremendous. That being said, the crowd, based off what I saw or heard, via Fight Pass, seemed really into it. They seemed knowledgeable. They were definitely cheering for Benson. They got it all, and unfortunately, Akiama lost, so they couldn't go away happy. It was a close one. But I think overall, they really stepped up. And they'd been talking about South Korea for a very long time.

So I wouldn't be surprised if they'd come back. and Choi has to be a big part of it. They have Kim as well. Benson, obviously, Akiyama, to me, still seems like he can fight. So they got some nice pieces over there. Oh, and by the way, the Korean zombie couldn't fight because he had military duty. He'll be back next year.

And neither could ace limb. He got hurt, too. That's another guy. Yeah, they've got some good talent over there. The swing and betting on Bang on Saturday. Yes, please. Bang was a heavy favorite before his fight with Leo Kuntz on Saturday, but a surge of betting on Kuntz made him the underdog moments before his fight.

people suggested that the fighter was going to take a dive. My question is, is this common in MMA for a drastic change embedding before a fight? And does it worry you that potentially someone not named Bob Sap would throw a fight to benefit themselves financially? Well, here's the weird thing. He ended up losing, right? No, the guy who became the underdog won. Exactly. That makes no sense. Right.

Well, essentially, as far as what I've seen out there, the reports are that there was report that his weight cut was tough. and that his camp was rough and that he was a little bit banged up and that caused the drastic shift in the betting line and he came out there and still got the job done. What was explained to me was that in these fights, these undercard fights where there's no action, if someone comes in a family member or whatever, there's like $500 on it. If someone comes in and bets $5,000, nothing crazy but just a big amount for the amount that was being bedded prior to that, it can drastically change things. It can, but that's not what happened here.

What happened here? What I said, that there was word that his weight cut was tough, his camp was tough, and he was a little banged up. That is correct that if, you know, there's a fight with not a lot of action and someone comes in and bets a large amount, it can drastically change it. But those are usually very well documented and, you know, that news will come out. So that wasn't the case here. It's very strange. I wonder, was Kuntz at the press conference? I don't think he was.

I looked around for that. It doesn't happen very often to answer that question. He was monitoring the weight cut of one Leo Kuntz. No, it was Bangs' weight cut. So he became the underdog because they thought he was banged up. Wow, that was no pun intended. And then he ended up winning. Very bizarre.

You know, these types of things can happen from time to time, but this is one of the rarer cases where somebody who has, was, you know, a favorite became a significant, significant dog. And it was, it was just a strange thing. And, you know, there was, if somebody wasn't convinced, you could have, you could have made some money betting on him there. But I'm happy bang one only because, you know, you saw some people already throwing out that was fixed and all that. Sure. Could you imagine if you want? Could you imagine? And it was a little dicey there at the beginning. It almost looked like, what the heck is going on? Could you imagine if you got knocked out in 10 seconds? The talk would have been nonstop if that happened.

What do you guys think of the buildup to UFC 194? It seems to me that the promotion has been seriously lacking compared to UFC 189. Do you think this event will be more or as successful as UFC 189 considering the amount of talent on the card? It can never be compared because there wasn't a world tour. It didn't need a world tour. In fact, I kind of like the fact that it sort of was a bit under the radar because I felt like the strange injury bug forces would conspire against it. I think it's important that we have two weeks now to build up the event. I think that, you know, the subtle commercials here and there. I'm, I'm ready to move past 193. You know, Korea was a nice

little, you know, morning show, but to me, I'm all about 194. And that's why I kind of feel like, okay, I don't like having the event after 189. I didn't like that because it felt like you stuck around to the party a little too long, but I don't feel like 194 is the event to have two events before it. Like, 186 is that event. You know what I mean? Like the one that isn't that strong. To me, Aldo McGregor, Wyden Rockhold, Romero Jaceret, Nelson Maya, I mean, I just want to think about that. But it feels like part of an experience.

It feels like part of something bigger. It most certainly does, but once we get to, like, if you look at the schedule and everything, and I'm not complaining, like I saw some media people complain about there being too much, like, this to me is a dream.

This is something I'll be thinking about for years and telling me. This is unbelievable, and I hope it all stays the same. We lost Waterson. I hope that's it. but it almost feels like we're to a degree muddying the waters here. Listen, I want to focus on 194. The UFC has proven that they are willing to test the notion that there is no such thing as too much.

Yes, fair enough. I don't think it will affect it. Look, the gate is a record. So, I mean, people are into it. I don't even want to talk about it because I'm afraid. But clearly the amount of promotion has decreased. And do you think any of that's with... It's impossible to compare because of the World Tour.

Sure. And that was unprecedented. That was, yeah. And that was the first go-round. with Connor McGregor, you know, as the headliner in that spot. But do you think any of it has to do with reservation about somebody pulling out just because they got snake bitten last time? I don't know.

I mean, look, if something happened now, it would be hard to go a third time. But I will say this. I am super interested to get to Vegas and to hear from Connor because it feels like something's brewing there. If you get what I'm saying, we talked about it on the beat. I'm just interested. He fascinates me. fascinates me.

Freaking Rockhold Wyman fascinates me. I mean, the whole damn thing fascinates me. And I'm not taking anything away from those other two events because Edgar Mendez is incredible. Page versus Rose is incredible. My main man, Sage Northcutt, is incredible. It's all damn incredible. You know, Chabeeb, that's unfortunate.

But, but this is just unbelievable stuff. So I just, I'm okay with it. Maybe, you know, I'm not the one making money off it. I'm not the promotional team. I'm not the marketing team. Just get me to December 12th. And if it means less media stuff, fine. I just want to see those guys fight.

Moving to Twitter, if Benson Henderson keeps fighting at 170, how far is he from a title shot? Hmm. And you've said that that's what you want, right? You want to see him kind of make a run? By the way, who did you think he was referring to when he said, was that impressive enough? Do you think it was GSP?

That was one of my questions for George, but I ran out of time. I don't think so. If so, the execution's a little bit weird on that. But that's Ben, man. He's just, he's kind of a different cat. Like, for me, my instant thought was the UFC, but that's, if it's George, I guess I get it, but it's, it's, you got to be a little more transparent with that. Yeah, that's, that's part of the course of that.

And then on the opposite side of that, it doesn't get more transparent than taking off your gloves and setting them down in the middle of the ring. Yeah, and he's like smiling and looking at himself on, on camera. It was all very bizarre, but I love it. I love that sort of mystery. I still think he's got some work to do. I mean, the problem with the rankings is that, you know, know, he's still, he's still in the lightweight and he's been dropped all the way down to 11, which I don't think makes any sense. So he's kind of in that weird gray area where people aren't voting for him or they might

be voting for him in Welchweight, but not enough. So they're forgetting about him at lightweight, so he's dropping down. It's all very strange, but who cares about the ranking, though? Oh, actually, he's now 15 in the ranking. But, you know, that's part of the way they sort of promote the guys. I still think there's a little bit of work. Maybe next it's like, if he does resign with the UFC, maybe it's, I don't know, a magni type.

Well, the problem here is that Mazvedal is not really considered a welterweight, you know, exclusively. So this doesn't really give him as much stock up. Whereas Thatch, yeah. Thatch was, you know, obviously a big... Maybe Tidalgo Alves again. They're 1514. I like that fight. It's another kind of, you know, tweener guy.

I feel like he needs to make a statement against a real, like, staple of the 170 division. He's not really a tweener. If anything, he's more of a 185 or Alves. Wow. I mean, Dolce has been teasing that dropped to 155 for... Magni Forever now Thompson

Kim Maya I mean Magni would be a great fight and I think a statement Yeah Magni versus

Henderson All right Is it significant that Kenny Florian interviewed Mosvidol before Benson Never seen the

loser interviewed first I wanted your thoughts on this because I don't remember if I've seen that before either

but I feel like we might have and I'm just forgetting I don't recall seeing it unless there was a major injury or something and that's rare

when the winner has the injury from what I understand, don't look into it too much. I just think there was a mix-up. That's it. From what I was told, it just was, you know, he zigged when he should have zagged. There was no subliminal message there.

It was just a mix-up. There you go. Now that he seems, you already alluded to this, now that he seems to be taking his fighting and his life seriously, do you think we have yet to see the best John Jones? No, I really don't. And that's a crazy thing.

But I also think that we're going to see a much better, Daniel Cormier. I think he over-trained for that fight. I think he had too much. I remember Jones injured his knee, had to get back. All that time, Cormier was healthy, was going full steam. It was a very emotional and personal fight for him. So I don't think we've seen the best of either of them against each other. And that's crazy. I can't wait. Oh, God, I can't wait. I can't wait for that buildup. Cormi is saying he's got some bullets in his back pocket. What the hell is going on? This is crazy. I'm such a sucker for this stuff.

Speaking of this month and how many great fights there are, December is the UFC month. What are your top three fights that you can't wait to see from this month. Oh, God. Aldo McGregor, Wyden Rockhold. It's like 1A, 1A, 1B. And is it also from that card with Jacaree and Romero? It might be. I mean, that says, you know, everything you need to know about that card. Jacarre, Romero, Maya Nelson, Edgar Mendez, Page versus Rose, Dos Santos versus Overeem, Seroni versus RDA. So you give in about 10. Nick the three.

Fador versus Jai Deep Singh. That's right. Three, I'll go with the top three at 194. Yeah, I think for me that's it as well. It's crazy. Greatest card ever. Greatest top three fights ever. And Tony Ferguson would have cracked it for me, though.

Any update, this is our final one and fitting. Any updates on our boy Nick DS? Yes, I'm happy you asked. I was talking to some people last week, and it seems like there's a bit of dragging of the feet there. You know, I reported on UFC tonight that it's being discussed right now that they were, you know, hoping to get some sort of resolution here. Renegotiate this whole thing and come to 18 months as far as suspension and $100,000 fine. But there have been some other terms thrown out. That's still on the table from what I was told, 18 months, $100,000.

But there's other things that he had to agree to. And, well, there's some back and forth there. So, you know, as you can see with the Van der Leight thing today, things in Nevada move. slowly and there's there's a lot of red tape but hopefully and i said this on the beat hopefully we don't take our foot off the gas on this one it's important to remind people that what was done was wrong that if it is 18 months and he's okay with that then so be it but it can't be five years that's wrong that shouldn't happen they can't take away his career not not with those tests not with what happened not with the way it went down in september 15th in las Vegas a date that will live in infamy until this is

corrected. So I checked in last week. It's moving along, but there's some snafus here and there. Hopefully, first quarter of 2016, maybe, you know, in the last month or so, December is tomorrow. They'll figure this out and they renegotiate a good deal. But it's not done deal by any stretch, as I said, but they were hoping things would move a little quicker. It got slowed down and they're working through it. That's the update. And that's it. We're done. That is it. All right. All right. Thank you very much. Great show. What a show that was. You can hit my music. Thank you, New York, Rick, for that. Thank you to all of you for tuning in. Thank you to all of you for sending in questions. Thank you to all of you who watched our stuff last week. The Jones interview, the Holly Home teammates reacting. And how about Holly Home going on Huff Post live and saying that of all the things to come out after the win? The articles, the videos, all that stuff. That was her favorite. How about that? pretty amazing. I appreciate her saying that, I should say, and I sent her a text thanking her for saying that as well. So another show in the books, two more before the year is up.

Next week, of course, start of a big week for the UFC for our sport. It's a quiet weekend coming up, but boy, oh boy, well, we have a lot to discuss next week. For now, we say goodbye to this week. Thank you very much to Malky Kawa for stopping by. Great stuff from him. As always. Thank you very much to Daniel Cormier. Tremendous stuff from him, as always. All the best and happy trails to Cajal Pendrant. Good luck with the new salad place.

Great to catch up with Josh Barnett. Good luck on January 30th. Thank you very much to the great George St. Pierre for stopping by. Very interesting stuff out of him. Thank you very much to Mirko Krokop for stopping by. Thank you for the memories. Good luck to him as he enters a new phase in his great life. much to Rico Verhoeven for stopping by.

Really great to have him on the show for the first time. Check out Glory this Friday on ESPN3. And thank you very much to all of you for stopping by as well. If you missed anything, iTunes, Stitcher, SoundCloud, YouTube, all that good stuff and more. We'll see you next week. Until then, I say, Pes. So, Maria. Sacks Fifth Avenue makes it easy to holiday your way.

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and find gifts and inspiration to suit your holiday style at Sacks Fifth Avenue. Support for this show comes from Volkswagen. As the U.S. gets ready to host soccer's biggest moment on a worldwide stage, Volkswagen is helping people discover new terms, and new ways to play the beautiful game right here in the U.S. From Deaf and Power Wheelchair of Soccer to Beach and Futsal,

Volkswagen is actively supporting all the communities and teams within the U.S. soccer ecosystem. They're supporting talent from across the U.S. soccer extended national teams and are focused on helping to give these less widely known forms of soccer a platform moving forward. From the pitch to the sand and everything in between, welcome to our turf.