MMA Fighting - The MMA Hour with Ariel Helwani - Episode 346

Episode Date: September 6, 2016

Ariel Helwani speaks to Dave Meltzer (00:06:27), Anthony Pettis (00:26:52), Duke Roufus (00:45:05), Junior dos Santos (01:09:42), Cain Velasquez (01:29:13), Ben Rothwell (01:49:16), Rico Verhoeven in studio (02:20:08), and NewYorkRic to take your questions (03:10:54). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix Colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love?

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I'm Ariel Hawani back inside our New York City studio. If you were celebrating or observing Labor Day yesterday here in North America, I hope you had a great one. Hopefully it was relaxing, surrounded by loved ones. I had a great one. I took my family, my two kids and my wife, two. Yankee Stadium for the first time. My beloved Toronto Blue Jays were in town, and it was very exciting to do that. Unfortunately, they lost. It was not much of a game, but it was cool to take them there and try to teach them about the game. The sights and sounds was a beautiful day. Love doing that stuff.

So it was a fantastic day for the small Halwani family, and I hope you had a similar one. Of course, we had a busy couple of days over at MMAFighting.com HQ last Wednesday. traveled to Woodbridge, New Jersey, Pino's Pizzeria and Restaurant owned by the great Mark Henry. Did a little video with Mark Henry and Frankie Edgar. If you have not seen that, do check it out. It was a lot of fun. Truth be told, I always wanted to work at a pizzeria. And they kind of rolled out the red carpet.

Mark Henry was the ultimate guest. Excuse me, the ultimate host, I should say. I was, I think, a pretty good guest. He was just so damn nice, so damn accommodating. We did this little game, pizza game. it was a lot of fun. And also got to talk to Frankie about the Aldo Loss. That was his first interview since the Aldo Loss at 200. So that was a great experience. And then on Friday, we went to Kensington, which is a neighborhood in North Philadelphia, which is where the UFC

lightweight champion Eddie Alvarez is from, walked around his hood for around an hour and change visited his very first boxing gym, Front Street boxing, where Creed was filmed. And I got to be honest, I have never been in a neighborhood like this. No hyperbole. I was, he told me beforehand that he was bringing two cops with us because he wouldn't do the interview if there wasn't any kind of protection with us. And I kind of thought he was joking. This is where he's from. And lo and behold, we get there, there are two cops with us the entire time. He said that someone would have taken our gear had we not had protection saw where he grew up it was to say the least a very rough neighborhood and and to say that I now have a newfound appreciation for

who Eddie Alvarez is and where he has come from and what he has accomplished just to get to this point as UFC Lightway Champion is an understatement needles on the ground drug dealers everywhere people passed out I mean it was I'm fortunate to have had a very, very, very, very, very, very good upbringing. I've never, I've never seen anything like that. And I appreciate everyone checking it out. We posted it yesterday on the site. If you have not seen it, do take some time. It's around an hour. It's one of our walk and talks. If I could do one of those a week, I would be the happiest guy in the world. I love doing those. And to be able to see the reaction and to tell a story like Eddie Alvers's a story, a guy who's

been around the sport for so long over a decade and people don't really know all that much about him and to go to where he is from. That was years in the making, as you heard on this show, he kind of called me out and thought I wouldn't show up. So it was really nice to do that. And really appreciate everyone checking it out and all the nice feedback. And of course, there was a fight on Saturday.

The UFC was in Hamburg. Three notable things happened, in my opinion. Josh Barnett beat Andrei Alofsky. It's amazing. Andre Alofsky has now lost three in a row. And this time last year, he had just won four in a row in the UFC. Barnett wins, submits him a very fun fight, a very entertaining fight.

If you haven't watched it, I do suggest you check it out. That was on Fight Pass. In the co-main event, Alexander Gustafin, fights for the first time in 11 months. He defeats Jan Blahowitz. And, you know, it wasn't anything to write home about, but he got back on the horse, got his confidence back. It was a solid enough win. And Ryan Bader knocked out Alir Latifie with a devastating knee. I believe in the second round, and Latifie's head just bounced back.

I mean, that was vicious stuff. So for Ryan Bader, a very important win. as he tries to regroup after that loss to Anthony Johnson back in January. And now here we are, UFC 203 week. Finally here, what, 19 months later, after they announced CM Punk signing with the UFC, we are four days away from CM Punk's MMA debut, UFC debut. We'll talk about that all show long. I am all in.

I think anyone who's debating whether or not he deserves to be here, I mean, you miss the boat by 17 months. It's here. It's happening, and in my opinion, it's a throwback to the old days of the UFC. Of course, Alastair Overeem fighting Steepam Yochich for the heavyweight title Verdum against Brown 2. A lot to discuss. So let me run down today's show. And then we shall get to our first guest of the day.

At around 350, we'll take your questions and comments. So hit us up regarding anything. A little MSG talk we can get into and a whole bunch of other stuff going on in the world of M.A. Rico Verhoven. Interesting. We have a lot of heavy weights on today's show. heavyweight's very much in the news in MMA. Rico Verhoeven is the glory kickboxing heavyweight champion on Friday.

He defends his title against Anderson Silva, not the same Anderson Silva from our world, but the kickboxing version, Anderson Braddock Silva in Trenton, New Jersey. That's on ESPN 2. So Rico Verhoeven's going to be in studio. How about that? Large man in studio at around 305. 245, Ben Rothwell will be on the show. He was supposed to fight a 203 against Verdume, but pulled out due to an injury.

So we'll talk to Ben Rothwell. hasn't talked to anyone since then. Kane Balasquez, is he next after his big win at UFC 200? He stops by at 225. Always a pleasure to talk to Kane. Junior Dosanto stops by. So look at four heavyweights in a row. JDS will be on at 205.

Duke Rufus on at 145. Talk about, of course, CM Punk's debut, punk in Cleveland already. Anthony Pettis will talk about his drop down to 145 successful as it was and also training with CM Punk. So that's at 125. But first, let's go to the phone line. Specifically wanted to start with Dave Meltzer of MMAFighting.com

and, of course, the Wrestling Observer Newsletter because he has great insight on two of the biggest stories going on in MMA today. So a pleasure to have him back on the show this time via the phone. Dave, are you there? I am here. How are you doing, Ariel? Hey, Dave, thank you very much for the time. I appreciate it.

So before we get into the 203 talk, I want to ask you about Joe Silva because the big news of the week last week was Joe Silva. retiring from the UFC now. It hasn't happened just yet, probably towards the end of the year, but he has informed the bosses over there, WME, Dana White. Everyone knows that Joe Silva is going to retire, so his run is going to come to an end. You wrote a fantastic story on his unlikely rise to the top, if you will. It was posted on Sunday on MMayfine.com. And the big question to me is, how much are they going to miss Joe Silva at this point? Given how much the sport has changed, the organization has changed, how big of a deal is this for the new owners in your opinion?

I think it's really big, especially at the start, because, you know, you've got a guy who has about 16 years experience doing this specific job and 21 years experience being around MMA. And Sean, I mean, Sean Shelby will become the head matchmaker almost for sure. And Sean Shelby's been doing this for years, and he's really good at his job, you know, goes back to the WEC days and everything like that. And he learned under Joe Soba. So as far as that aspect goes, it should be okay. but the difference is just the incredible workload that Joe Sullivan did and, you know, his knowledge of, you know, dealing with people and, you know, negotiating contracts and all of this type of stuff. And then to have to have to bring in new people because one person's not going to be able to do the job. They're going to have to bring in new people who are inexperienced at this as far as dealing with fighters and managers.

I mean, they may be negotiation people from another, you know, another person. place or perhaps people who've done matchmaking it smaller shows and things like that. But it's, I think from the early point, I think it's going to be a big, big difference just because of, you know, you've got to learn on the job and negotiate with these guys, and it's, it's an interesting process. So, you know, I mean, UFC will go on. Yeah. So it's, and people may not even notice the difference, but I think that within the UFC, you know,

just the amount of training of the new people and the workload of the new people is going to be something that they're going to have to deal with. If you're the UFC, do you bump Sean Shelby up? Because it's interesting, he has done a fantastic job, in my opinion, of building those smaller weight classes, 1.45, 1, 35, 1.25, 1.25, the two female weight classes. And he has the relationships with all those managers there, all those fighters there. Do you bump him up and make him almost, you know, start over in a sense with the relationships, or do you try to find someone to replace Joe, Silva, whether it's one or two people? I mean, I think that Sean Shelby's going to bump up because, you know, as far as management goes, you know, fighters, most managers represent multiple fighters, so it's probably still the same thing in that regard. And Sean, you know, the new weight classes, but Sean's on the ball on every weight class.

So it's not like, you know, he has to all of a sudden learn these weight classes. He was always assisting Joe in that stuff. So I think that maybe Sean will end up having to oversee every division. But in time, you know, somebody's going to have to step forward and, you know, start being the main guy at some divisions. You know, I don't see Sean being able to do every division for a long period time. But at the beginning, he's probably going to have to until they train new people. Do you feel like this is a sign of things to come?

A new era is upon us. It's the very, very, very early stages of said era. But, you know, no one buys anything for that much money and just keeps it status quo. You feel like, you know, this time next year, two years, that the departure of Joe Silva will have signaled a big change in the UFC. Well, I mean, the departure of Lenzor Lorenzo Furtita is a real big one. Right, you're right. And then shows silver right away.

And, again, that's like two of the three biggest people in the organization. And I mean, as far as like the executive branch and things like that, yeah, I mean, in time, I think in a year, there's going to be a lot of people who have been around for a long time who will probably be gone and a lot of new people brought in. I think it's just inevitable when you have new owners. That's what happens in every business. I mean, we've all been through that stage in our own lives and in other businesses that we've seen. Yeah. You know, as far as who stays and goes, I don't really have a clue, but I just feel it's inevitable that all that will happen. Are you surprised to hear that Joe's leaving?

I'm not when I found out, you know, the reason in the sense of, you know, he was able to get a percentage of that sale. Because of that, I mean, I've known Joe Silver for a long, long time. We're actually pretty close friends. And he, we used to talk about Lorenzo. And his thing was if I had the money Lorenzo had, you know, instead of working 18-hour days, I would be, you know, enjoying life. You know what I mean? Yeah. And so I knew that if Joe was ever in a financial position to walk away, that he would do so.

And now he is in that financial position. So no, it doesn't surprise me. The day I heard that he was leaving, I was shocked because I didn't realize that he was getting a percentage of that sale. Yeah. Did he have a percentage of the company, or did he get a percentage of sale? Because, you know, when we always got the breakdown of the company, he was never a part of it. Yeah, he was.

I don't, he did not have a, um, a percentage of the company, but I guess that there was something with him. And he wasn't the only one, but I don't know others, but there were a couple of executives that, you know, I was told that, you know, probably, you know, I guess right after Joe made the announcement, um, or, we're not made the announcement, but after the story on Joe came, he was like, yeah, there were a couple of executives. They're, you know, top guys, and, and they got like small percentages, but small percentages of four billion dollars is several million dollars. So, you know, that's, uh, so there were, There were a couple of people.

I don't know who exactly, but he wasn't the only one. Dana White always told us that if the Fritita brothers left, he'd leave as well. And now here we are looking at a situation where he has reportedly signed this five-year deal to stick around. But his two guys, Joe Sylvan Lorenzo, those were his guys on a day-to-day basis, are going to be gone in a matter of months. Do you really believe that he will stick around for the next five years? That's a really hard question. you know, I think a lot depends on how the relationship ends up with whoever, you know, Ariel, I mean, Ariel, Emmanuel puts in a spot.

Yeah. You know, to be to work with him in the old Lorenzo spot, so to speak, and if he can get along with him and develop a great relationship with him, I think Dana loves the sport, and I don't think that he's looking to walk away. but if the new company tries to make changes, and if the company starts going down with those changes, I could see, you know, just mentally with Dana, I could see that happening because, again, he's also in the financial position that he doesn't need this at all. Right.

He wants to leave. He can go leave. If he's frustrated, he can leave. I think as long as the company's doing well, that he's pretty much in control, and he's having fun, I don't see him leaving. But, yeah, he's a volatile person, too. and, you know, so I think it really depends on his relationship and how the company's doing.

Okay, if you want to learn more about the Joe Silva story and how sort of unlikely and amazing his rise was, I do suggest checking out that story that Dave wrote on Sunday over at M.AFoney.com now. I also want to talk to you about 203 because, of course, it marks the long-awaited, much-anticipated debut of one CM Punk, 19 months in the making. And I'm curious, we were talking about this before the show started, New York Rick and I. do you feel like it has been too long since he was a part of WWE to where the wrestling community? I'm curious, how much of them do they even know that this is happening? Because WWB, of course, is not going to promote this because of the lawsuit that he's involved in.

So is it unfortunate that there's been just too much time between when he was a huge star in WWE and this weekend's event to where they're not going to be able to tap into those wrestling fans that they thought they were going to be tapping into when they made this announcement back at 181. Do you get what I'm saying? I know that's actually what you're saying because I've been thinking of the same thing. Yeah.

I mean, I don't know for sure. I think most wrestling fans have an awareness that this is going on. Did they have the emotional connection with CM Punk today that they had 17 months ago, so to speak? Probably not. But will there be... I mean, the question is,

on the day of the show, the couple days before the show, when, you know, will they have that cure out? You know what? Let's go see how CM Punk does. And I don't know the answer. I watched the preview shows,

but, you know, on FS1, but the thing, you know, those shows did not do big numbers. I thought, you know,

when the shows were over, I was, I had an intrigue. It's like, okay, you know, I mean, I would watch the show either way,

obviously, and, you know, but, but, um, I mean, from a wrestling perspective,

I mean, people, people were talking about it, but, if it had been like say six months or eight months, I think it would have been, even the wrestling community, it would have been bigger.

And also because he hasn't been around a lot, if he'd been all over everywhere promoting it in the CM Punk interview style for the last several weeks, I think that it might have been bigger as well. Yeah, that's a really good point because one of the things that made CM Punk, in my opinion, so popular was, you know,

the pipe bombs, the interviews, he told it like it is. But he was playing a character. And I think now he wants to be respectful and humble and things like that. I think some fans are confused. Do you think that it's going to hurt him when it comes to whether or not this will connect with people and the ultimate, you know, pay-per-view buys for this show?

Well, if he was doing the interviews like he did in wrestling, I think it would have been bigger. But I think one of the things, because I've been thinking about this a lot, you know, it's like, you know, when they signed him, I mean, the big thing is like, see him punk's going to do these great interviews, like none of these MMA fighters except for Connor can do. And we didn't see that at all. And I think that what happened, I think that, I think that, you know, that. as a professional wrestler, Siam Punk,

the thing he had going for him was incredible confidence. He really believed he was the best, and it came off, and he got convinced people of it. I think in this, he knows full well he's not the best, and because of that,

he doesn't want to be fake. You know, and I think that the best pro wrestling interview guys, for the most part, are not fake doing their interviews. They have a belief and conviction in what they're saying

within their character, and I think that the interviews that we're getting from S.M. punk are also that real are real in the sense that this is what he believes that he can do and he's not going to overstep his bounds and go, hey, you know, I'm the best in the world because he knows he's essentially an old beginner. And his thing is that, you know, he's put the work and he's trained really, really hard.

And, you know, he's serious and he wants to prove that he's real. And he just wants to prove that he wants to prove to himself, I think that he can do it and do all the people who said that he'll never fight. He wants to step in the thing to prove those people wrong. So you're more tapped into that world than anyone. What kind of buzz are you hearing? Like, are you starting to get the sense that this is going to result in a big buy rate? Are you starting to get the sense that people in WWE are curious or are going to tune in?

What kind of feedback are you getting about this? I mean, there's definitely curiosity, but I don't see it as overwhelming. I mean, if you're going to compare it to say when Brock Lesnar fought Frank Mirre the very first time, I don't think it's anything close to that. And Brock had been off TV for years. but you know, Brock had that aura when he was in wrestling of, oh, what would he do in a real fight? Where is punk, you know, just never had that aura.

But punk was, but, you know, like, realistically punk was a much bigger star when he left than Brock was when he left, and there was a lot more of a year's difference. You know, Brock came in was, what was about four years almost after he left WW. And punk is less than two years. But I felt more, yeah, I definitely felt way more with Brock coming in than with punk coming in. What's your prediction for pay-per-view buy rate for this?

I mean, this is the one show that I do not have a clue. This is what I'll say. Okay. Okay. Anything over 270 is because of punk, because I was looking at this thing and going like this is probably, you know, 250 to 300-ish, right? And it's probably below 300 when you take punk out.

So if it does 400, then punk was a hell of a draw. So I guess to be conservative, I'm going to go low threes. But if, you know, if somehow it does 500, then, then, you know, I completely underestimated the pro wrestling audience. But you don't have a prediction? Well, I guess I'm saying low threes. You're saying low threes, really? This is, yeah, low threes, low-paintinged threes.

I'm surprised. I don't know. I mean, this is the hardest one to predict all year. Yeah. It really is. It's fascinating, though. I can't wait to get there. Are you going to this one?

No, I'm not going to this one, no. I can't wait to just see how the people react to him at the open workouts and the way-ins. I mean, look, I know a lot has been said of, you know, whether or not he's worthy of this, if he deserve, I think we're past that point. There's no point of even arguing about that, discussing that. It's happening. Here it is four days away. I'm just, it's so unique and different.

And, you know, we go event to event to event. This is just different. And to me, I feel like it's kind of a throwback. This is what happened in 93, 94, when you were the only one covering this damn thing. Hey, here's a guy from a different discipline. Yes, it's pro wrestling. Let's see how he does. And I know in 2016, this.

sort of thing doesn't fly in MMA, but to act like the UFC is the ultimate, ultimate ultimate, when they're not their own, you know, the UFC in many respects, and I want to get your take on this, is their own farm system. Like, they have guys who aren't, quote, unquote, UFC caliber fighting on those cards every single week. I'm not offended by this, and I don't quite understand why anyone is offended by this. Do you get what I'm saying? I'm not offended by it because, you know, here's the other thing, too. You know, a lot of people romanticize about pride. This is what pride did all the time. Right. You know, whether it was pro wrestlers or whether it was, you know, I mean, some of the people were from, but they had actors and comedians who were

tough guys, you know, and trained jiu-jitsu or something, but, you know, essentially punk did that too. I mean, punk trained jiu-jitsu and did stuff, you know, while I was pro-wrests, or not intensely, and he was still a beginner. Right. But, yeah, this is, this to me is the epitome of what Pride did to expand its audience and reach people that were not your hardcore fight audience. And I think that there will be, you know, there's going to be a lot of curiosity. I mean, does that translate into a lot of.

of buys. I don't know. It may. But I do think that, I do think that the curiosity of this show is real high because he's everyone within pro wrestling is going to be curious. He was that big of a star in pro wrestling. Whether they will spend 60 or 70 bucks, some, some will. And, you know, and just, again, it's such an unknown. I mean, how good is he? And he's fighting an unknown. Yeah. It's like one of those fights where, you know, people ask like, you know, what's your prediction and this and that. It's like, you know, we got nothing to predict it on. It's not like, you know, Travis Brown and Burdome where we can look at the first fight and we can look at their last five fights. And, you know, we have a pretty good idea or we think we have a

pretty good idea of how this thing's going to go. I feel like they made a big mistake by putting that show on FS1. The UFC fan already exists on FS1. That's where the hardcore fan lives. They had to put it on either Big Fox or FX somewhere where they get the casual fan tuned in, right? I mean, don't you feel like that was a mistake? I completely agree. Yeah. I completely agree. this because yeah, this was this was a show that's more for the pro wrestling fan or just the human interest story fan. Yeah. You know, of this unlikely journey because it really is.

Yeah. It's a guy when you, you know, and they framed it real well in the show that there's, this guy, you know, who was made millions and millions of dollars every year as a professional wrestler who walked away at the peak of his fame, pretty much, and started at, you know, at the age of 36, training in this new endeavor because he had a, he had a real, love for this endeavor, as you know, very well for years. And I think in the back of his head for years, he always wanted to do it. And I think that that aspect of it, it's a really great story, but because it was on FS1,

and also it was put on Monday at 930, which is the worst time to reach a professional wrestling fan, because it's the highest rated professional wrestling show of the week is on at the same time. Why do you think they did that? I don't know. I think that they probably just didn't think about it. And, you know, as soon as they announced that time slot, that's the first thing I thought of It's like between 8 and 11 on Monday night is the only time slot I would say avoid like the plague. Unbelievable.

Yeah, that was truly a head scratcher. Two more things before I let you go. The MSG show is rapidly approaching, and while I've heard, I'm sure you have heard about some other fights, there is no main event as of right now. If you're booking this thing, if you have the pencil, so to speak, what are you booking for the main event of the MSG show on November 12th? Well, if Connor's going to go to 1.45 and defend his title, I think Connor and Alder, the natural matchup. Is that big enough?

What? Is that big enough? I think so. Okay. So, yeah. Yeah. Connor, Connor's such a huge draw that I think any, you know, and there's a story there.

I mean, if not, then Connor and Eddie Alvarez. Either way, Connor has got to headline because there's nobody else with that kind of drawing power that's available right now with Ronda Rousey, you know, obviously not going to fight on that show. Sure. You know, I figured that we're going to have, you know, Adi Alvarez, Frankie Edgar, you know, Chris Wydman all of those guys should be on the card.

And against quality guys, you know, I don't know if Wydenman against Chauceret would be a really interesting fight. I mean, that's not a big marquee fight, but I think Wyden being there and Wyden being promoting it and everything like that. You know, Frankie, I haven't thought about who Frankie could fight

that's on the card, you know, as far as his division. But I think that, you know, and Alvarez against, you know, whoever, I know that there's been rumors of Waller and Soroni, which is a great fight. It's like a fantastic fans fight. So, you know, maybe that would be kind of like where the top of the card would fit

in. Frank Yeager, Jeremy Stevens, is my guess. That's all right. Yeah. Get him a, you know, sort of a favorable fight for him, if you will. Who's your pick, by the way? Steeper or Overim? Steepet. But it's, they're both, you know, powerful guys and Overim's

knockout artist, and I could see Overim getting him with knees and everything and really softening him up quick. I could see Stepe boxing and or going to the later rounds and Stepey having

an edge because I think Steve's got better boxing and better cardio Overeem's got a more diverse attack and he's

you know if he gets somebody hurt he can finish him so you know it's one of those fights that you know

it's a heavyweight fight that can go either way and probably probably win with a knockout Overeem has been fighting MMA

since 99 this is a very big deal like he's one of those fans you know those fighters that there's some hardcore fans love from the Pride Days and K-1 and stuff,

I kind of feel like this should feel bigger. Do you know what I mean? Like, what a journey it has been for the guy? He's finally getting to fight for the belt. Almost five years to the date of his, you know, his signing with the UFC. It doesn't feel like they pushed it enough. Do you get what I'm saying?

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. It's frustrating. Because so much of the focus has been on the punk fight. Yeah. But you can promote, you know, they're two entirely different fights. I think that, you know, unfortunately, and I don't blame steepe for this, but I think that people just aren't ready for Stepe as world champion yet.

Yeah. You know, he won it, but, and I know it was really big in Cleveland and everything, but it just doesn't feel like the whole country has really gotten behind the idea of this, you know, American heavyweight champion. And I think that maybe also, I don't know that this is, I don't know that this plays a factor in it, but in my mind in a weird way it does, in a sense of King Velasquez looked so good against Travis Brown in his last fight that almost was like when that fight was over, it's almost like, well, Kane's the best heavyweight as long as he's not injured.

Right, right. And so it's almost this feeling of these guys are fighting, but, you know, it's, you know, not that, not that Kane deserves the championship because he doesn't right now, but the idea he looks so fantastic that I'm not watching the number one and number two heavyweight because of how Kane looked. That is interesting. We will talk to him later in the show. Dave, appreciate the time.

Great stuff as always. Thank you. Okay, thanks very well. There he is. Dave Meltzer of MMAFighting.com and the Wrestling Observer Newsletter. This episode of the MMA Hour is brought you by our friends at Thursday Boot Company. Winter is coming as you know and you are going to need a great pair of boots. Thursday boots are handcrafted to be comfortable, versatile, and durable.

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To see a selection of my favorites, head on over to Thursdayboots.com slash MMA. Okay, let's move along. I've been wanting to talk to this gentleman for quite some time. He had a very big weekend, two weekends ago in Vancouver won his featherweight debut, a fantastic fight. In my opinion, it was the fight of the night. against Charles Olavera. Anthony Pettis joins us right now on the phone. Anthony, how are you? I'm good, man.

How are you doing? I'm doing great. Thank you for the time. It has been a while, my friend. We haven't talked in a while. You kind of wanted to lay low before your fight against Charles, right? Yeah, I just wanted to just push back and focus on the fight. I got into the media and I get all the interviews and just was on my job.

Did you feel like it worked out? Like, was that a good thing to sort of stick to yourself and not put yourself out there too much? I think I trained really hard for this one, so my results kind of showed for itself. But, you know, it just felt good to get back to the roots of what got me here, man, just fighting and training. Did you feel more pressure

going into that fight because of the losing streak and all that? I was definitely a different feeling I never felt before. You know, coming off the losing streak, I was saying it earlier, you're fighting to kind of redeem yourself, and I think you get more more of a mental fight than anything.

So, you know, coming off in three losses was just a hard, uh, it's a hard time for me. So considering how good you looked in that fight, does that mean you're going to be a little more selective with the media you do before and how much you put yourself out there? Like,

have you learned anything from that experience? Um, I mean, I wouldn't say that was a big part of it. You know, I just say, I just really wanted to just focus in. I don't think I'll stop doing media or not do it as much.

I just, I just wanted to concentrate. Now, looking back, did you, I mean, how would you categorize the weight cut? Was it worse than you thought?

Was it easier? Was it harder? How would you say it went? I think it went good. I had a nutrition out there, you know, in my corner, and he gave me my diet, he gave me the plan. We knew it was going to be hard going into it. You know, 155 is the weight, I believe, but it's not really hard.

146 is what I weighed in at. That was a process. Like, once you got to 148, 147, how difficult was it to shed the final pounds? That was the issue, the last two pounds. because of the new weight in system, you know, we cut Thursday night. Yeah. I got down to 100,

I got down to 147.5, and I woke up at 148 on my scale. So we didn't mind what happened. I was kind of discouraged a little bit, didn't sleep much, and then, you know, we got to go cut two pounds. I go down to cut two pounds, and it took a little longer than I expected,

but I think, you know, with some adjustments in the diet and now knowing one was the new weight, weight in process, I think, you know, next point would be a lot better. Do you think it would have been easier if it was the old way-in deal where you weighed in later in the day? I love this way way better.

I mean, you're not sitting around miserable for all day. The night before it wasn't enjoyable, but I like weighing in and get right to point. Ultimately, was it your decision to go down to 145, or did your coaches tell you? Like, why did you do it now in your career? It was a little bit of my decision, and actually, Melke. Melke was the guy who was like just laying out the process for me. You know, me, I'm a fighter, so I'm like, let's get right back in there. And Muggey's like, let's slow it down, let's try something new.

Maybe let's try 145, 146, you know, we can make the wait. And, you know, it's a clear path to that title. There's some big fights down there. You've got B.J. Penn. You got Hunter McGregor, Jose Alvo, Frank Yeager. I mean, there's so many good guys down. Yeah. What, you're saying.

Sorry, sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt. Yeah, it was more of a just a strict. strategic moment on my management side, I think, of where we want to be at. My goal is to be the champ, and I think, you know, Melki just laid out a good vision for me. So after all these years, Maliki Kawa actually came up with a good idea. That's amazing. We had that conversation after the fight. Whatever happened in that fight was kind of on me.

I am shocked. That's amazing. So does that mean you're sticking around on 145? I think, you know, if I want to stay at 45, this is the time to do it. Now that I know how the weight goes, my weight's nice and light now, and there's a lot of good contenders there. So, you know, you're going to have both divisions, and I want to be a champion, and I want to fight for belts. I want to fight the best in the world. At 145, I have some good fights in front of me.

Also, 1-55, too, so I don't know yet. I think at this one I've got to sit down and talk to Duke, and we'll go from there. So they haven't come back to you with any ideas yet asked you about your future. You haven't had to make that decision yet? not like a solid decision um i've made my decision up i mean i think me and max holloway would be a great fight um you know he's sitting there on the sidelines waiting for a title shot as well number three in the world at featherweight and uh that's the guy i would love to see myself fighting at 145 pounds but then at 155 pounds i mean there's still some good much for me as well too

so it's just i got to sit down figured out all right max holloway i like that um have you guys pitched that to the UFC yet? Do you know what they think of it? No idea, honestly. I tweeted Max and, you know, Max said he's not in line for a shot. He's getting a shot, I'm not sure. And you want to fight in New York, right? New York City, yep, November 12th. I mean, there's a lot of special things about that day for me. November 12th to the day, my dad passed away. So I was going to be a rough day in my family. So I think, you know, with the Madison Square Garden fight, and, you know, that day I think it would be awesome when you get on that card and just make that day

up more of a special day from my family and not have to remember. Wow. I was going to remember it, but I get up a little bit. Have you ever fought on that day before? I never done anything on that day. We used to take that day completely off and just I just hang out my mom.

My mom takes it pretty hard, so that was always a day for my mom. And do you feel like mentally it will be the right move to fight on that day? Such a big card, such a big event, all that stuff? Yeah, most definitely. I think, you know, after this fight mentally, I've been through so much mentally stuff this last year and half of my life with the losses, moving down, weight cut, pushing through his last fight.

I mean, that was a mental win right there. Charles O'Leary came to fight, and I thought I hadn't done in the first round, and I had to push mentally to get back in that fight. So I think, you know, I'm kind of finding myself in the mental aspects. I think my career blew up so quick, man. I was just going from fight to fight to fight, to fight, belt to belt, and I just now just had to face some hard times in my career, which only made me stronger. I recall looking at your face after you submitted him and he tapped. Like, I could almost see, like, the, you know, 3,000-pound gorilla just come off your shoulders. Like, it felt like the weight of the world had just been lifted.

Do you remember what that feeling was like that you can finally exhale and celebrate a win? Because it had almost been two years since your last win. Man, it felt amazing. I mean, I wasn't used to losing. Before that, and before that, losing streak, I had the bar-pellish-hacky loss. I mean, that was a controversial decision. And then, Guida, you know, he just turned me down for three rounds. Before that, you know, I won every fight.

And then going three fights in a row for, like you said, almost two years, not knowing what it feels like to be at your hand raised. It was, I mean, a lot of questioning on my side in my life, what I was doing wrong, and it was just how it was fighting the best in the world. And I'm fighting the best guys. There's no easy fights for me right now. Everybody that fights, Anthony Pettis shows up. He said it, you know, in our locker room.

Whoever fights you, this is their ticket to the next level. Don't be that gay. keep a guy. Don't be the guy that these guys make their name off. And, you know, at 155 pounds, these guys, these guys are our warriors, man. I'd be the first to say, I fought the who's who, the 155 town division. And now that I'm going out of 45, I'm not going to be fighting, you know, any slouches either. These guys are all good. Did you ever consider or did you go see, like, a sports psychologist, you know,

sometimes when people aren't on a losing streak, they do that. Did you do any kind of stuff like that? No, I didn't. No, I didn't. You know what? I just got back into church more, and I just got more grounded with my. family. I think I had a strong team around me. I just had to put together the right martial arts team. I got Duke, Duke, so I was going to be in my corner. I'm Izzy style. I flew back in

my old judici coach from Brazil. And then, you know, Lou with nutritionists, I thought it had a great team just around me for this camp. So, yeah, I just focused on that. A few months ago, you were in Albuquerque for a little bit with the Jackson Wing team, but for this camp, they weren't in your corner, right? No, they were in my corner, but I went out there. They had, you did. They had, they Carlos Condit out there. That's right. I didn't want to interrupt anything. Will you keep doing that?

I definitely go out there in Spar, for sure. Depending on the opponent as well. I mean, I know what body types they have out there, but yeah, I mean, there's some of the good guys at Jackson Wings that it would be dumb for me. I think out there and get that training. I mean, literally like it's a UFC fights in the gym. Like, there's so many good guys there.

Did you feel like it was tough, you know, like because Duke had been with you for so long to explain to him that you just wanted to get different looks like. Did that make anything? weird between you two? I want to say I made it weird. We definitely had a better open line of communication.

If somebody's didn't feel happy about it, we sat down and talked about it, we made sure everybody was on the same page. I think me and Duke have a relationship, you know, he wants to see me do well. He knows that, you know, I want this worse than anybody, and if that's what I need to do, I think, you know, he's fine with that.

Okay. What's interesting is that prior to this fight, the last time you won, especially in the same fashion, amazingly, was 181 against Gilbert Melendez. That night is notable because that was the night that they announced that C.M. Punk had signed with the UFC. Now, here we are four days away from his debut. Are you going to be – of course, he was part of your team for all this time, Rufus Sport. Are you going to Cleveland to watch the fight?

Yes, I'll be there for sure. Oh, will you be cornering him? I'm not going to be cornering him, no. He's been working with our coaches one-on-one the whole time. So these guys deserve to get out there. and let their work show. Okay. I think he's going to surprise him people, man.

He put the work and he put the time in, and people are definitely telling him out. I do a lot of interviews, and the first question is, is should he even be at this level? I mean, the guy wants to fight, and he has a fight coming up, so it's excited to see.

When he first came to the gym, did you ever think, like, come on, what is this wrestling guy? We have to be around. Did you have a certain view of him and what this whole thing was about, and has it changed 19 months later? You know, the first time I ever met him was that my cowboy

Soroni fight in Chicago when I called Cowboy he was there. Yeah. No, he was a really cool dude. And I didn't really know his background then. I watched wrestling, but I wasn't that big fan. And then, you know, to have this guy come over to the gym and start watching videos and see, you know, what it took for him to do that over there. He sacrificed his body for that as well, man.

So this guy's not used to, he's used to, of the training part. He's used to, you know, the body being sacrificed. And his ego, he doesn't have one. He's in the gym, he'll train just as hard as we do, and he'd be the first guy to clean the mat. So it's great to see that. And then at the same time, going back to your question, when he first showed up to the gym, I was like, we got some work on our hands. He wasn't even close to being ready for a fight.

And maybe not even like on the local circuit, you know, he was that, he was that new at it. But to Steve, he's at two years later, it's amazing, man. It's crazy how much, you know, martial arts brought us that closer together. And if he, you know, his confidence get better, him doing better against, you know, certain guys in the gym and him four days away from his, you know, UFC debut. When you were thinking, okay, this is how much time he probably needs and this is where he's at, like, do you feel comfortable as, you know, punk's about to fight with the Rufus Sport banner, you know, over his name, do you feel like, okay, he's the best that he can possibly be?

Like, he is finally ready to do this? Or do you wish he had a couple more months? I don't think anybody's the best day there ever should be. You know, even myself, you know, I go out there. There's so much more I've got to learn. There's so much more I can get better at. But I think this is the right time for him to test this stuff. He's been there for a long time, and he puts the working.

I think anybody who puts the work in is able to wear our roofersport better. That's what it's all about. Putting the work in, bussing your butt and being the best person, you can be out there knocking on. It's not like, we don't, you know, take the roofiesport flag in and say, oh, you need a head kick knockout because you're fighting for Rufusport. I mean, if you put the time in, you put the work in, you deserve to wear the flag with us. I mean, he was bleeding, sweating, and crying with us in the gym. And he went to the injuries as well.

So this guy's, he's ready. What was the send-off like? His last day, did you guys do something to send him off? Did you talk to him? You've been there so many times now. The biggest stage is possible. Did you have a heart-to-heart? What was that like?

I actually sent him a text message because I took the week off because after my fight, you know, I let my body heal. I went to the gym Monday. I watched sparring with my daughter. We watched everybody do their rounds. He had one more session, another Wednesday sparring session that I didn't see. But definitely sent him a text. Let him know I'm here from him.

I'll be there in his corner. you know, it's more, like you, like you, everybody knows, it's the mental side now. The preparation's done, it's the time for him to cut his weight. He probably has like a five to ten-pound weight cut at the most. So, I mean, the only thing for him to do now is the fight. Do you think in a weird way this is going to be some sort of indictment on Rufus Sport, like if something bad happens and the fight is short, that it will reflect unfairly poorly on the coaches? Do you know what I mean?

Like, do you feel like there's that kind of pressure on the coaches as well? It's always like that. And the MMA fans are so wish-washy and quick the judge. It's always like that. If he goes out there and he has good wrestling, I mean, they're going to say something bad about his striking, or if he goes out there and has great striking, they can't wrestle or he can't do you get to.

So, I mean, our goal is make sure he's safe, and then he goes out there and, you know, fight to the best visibility. It's going to be a tough fight. Like I said, this guy's not, the guy he's fighting, he's not, no slouch either. He's a UFC athlete, and Sam Punk, this is his first professional fight. Like, it's going to be a tough task, but he put the work in, he put the time in,

and I'm excited to see it show. Do you think that the opponent that they picked was tougher than the one that you expected? Man, anybody, how do you pick like a non-tuff UFC guy? Yeah. It's pretty impossible. I think it's good that they gave him somebody

with not a lot of experience, because that's where it comes down to, I think. This guy's younger, this is his chance to make his name off of seeing Punk. He's coming to fight. So I think, the matter who, was that it's a huge opportunity right here. But you don't get the impression that he's doing this for a one and done, right?

No, I don't. You mean, see him punk? Yeah. Yeah, no, not at all. I mean, this guy's been busting his butt for the last two and a half years. Two years, I mean, I don't think this is, I think it's something he loves to do. Amazing. I just say, it was a goal and a dream of his, and he loves the train.

When do you get there? I'm getting there Friday. Okay. Back to the lightweight division before I let you go. surprised to see Eddie Alvarez's champion? Man, that's crazy. You know, everybody at that weight class

is so damn good. You know, anybody can win in any given day. It was his day. It was his night. And, you know, he, the way he won against RDA was surprised me. You know, knockout, I felt him punch and not talking to any crap. I mean, I just, you know, RDA's power compared to his power was definitely a big difference.

Yeah. So you are surprised, kind of, right? The way he won in that fashion, yes, definitely. I mean, he's a great athlete. I fought him. He's a great athlete. Let's say he fights Connor. Who would you favor in that fight?

I just don't know if Connor can hit his hard and hurt his lightweight. I mean, Diaz wasn't even, you know, Diaz is, I think, number six, whiteweight, and they're making that fight to be the best of the best of the world. I mean, RDAs, you know, B. Diaz, there's a lot of good guys in the Whiteweight Division that beat Diaz, and they made it seem like Deez was like the number one in the world. So I think it's going to be interesting when he's fighting, you know, guys like Alvarez, guys like RDA,

whoever, I mean, all the good guys in the lightweight division. So is it fair to say in summation that, like, you, the darkest has happened, it's now the dawn, this is the speed, because, you know, you see Alistair Overeem, this is a guy who's on his own losing streak. Now here he is about to fight for the belt on Saturday. Like, we saw the speed bump for Anthony Pettis and do you feel like you're officially over?

it, everything's kind of going back into place, and now you're back on that right track. Do you feel that way? I feel like I'm back on the right track as far as training and putting that attention into it, but in his sport, anything can happen. So, you know, I'm not going to go out there and I think, you know, I'm back on the right track,

so I deserve it to win. I got to work just as hard as I did for the elevator fight for the next fight, the next fight until I get that belt. So maybe the lesson is, you know, don't get too high when, you know, the times are good and don't get too low, kind of stay in the middle because maybe that was affecting you a little bit?

No, the less it is, man, enjoy the high times. Because when they come, they come, and the low times come with it. The high times wouldn't be as good if you didn't have these low times. And, you know, with doing my handraise in Vancouver, you know, usually I'm, you know, out with my friends and hanging out. I went straight to the hotel room and passed out. It was just so much, so much, I guess, emotion attached to that fight that, you know, I just had adrenaline dump and it was just done tonight.

What did you do? How did you react? I went to dinner and I went to sleep. I went to dinner with the team. Everybody had a great time at dinner and we had some big conversations. And we just kind of laid it out if this is the plan and I got to make sure my body's prepped for it. I got to make sure my cardio gets better.

And immediately just critiquing my performance. Even though I won, we still have to critique the performance. Sure. Well, what a performance it was, Matt. Are you surprised you didn't win fight of the night, by the way? I just watched the fight, the whole fight. And, yeah, man, I remember in the moment of the fight, we were fighting. man the guy was throwing

with submission attempts all crazy great scrambles I didn't see the lows on another flight so I tried to pay All right well I thought it did Congrats man

Really happy for you Tremendous stuff And good luck to you And the team This weekend with CN Punk Appreciate the time Yeah we'll see you out there thanks All right there he is

Anthony Pettus Coming off that big win Over Charles Oliva Now the man who is In Pettus's corner Back in Vancouver Around 10 days ago The man who

has been by his side from the beginning and will also be by CM Punkside on Saturday. What a great guest to transition into now. We're talking to the headman over at Rufus Sport, the namesake. Duke Rufus himself joins us on the phone. Duke, how are you? Hey, man, I'm awesome. Just had a great weekend with my family. Just an incredible weekend here in Milwaukee.

The weather's awesome. Great summer, great life, great teams. Couldn't be any happier right now. Wow. I could feel the positivity. coming right out of you. I love that. Oh, thanks, man. And same with you. It seems like you got a lot of pep in your step on a Tuesday today.

I do. Well, you know, I got to tell you, Duke, I am very excited. I am all in on this. You know, the CM Punk story to me is nothing to be upset about to get my feathers ruffled about. I mean, I am so excited to get to Cleveland and see how this whole thing unfolds. And you have been there literally from day one as far as his MMA journey is concerned. And I'm curious, on this Tuesday, how do you feel? Like, do you feel? Like, do you feel a little different than your typical pettist fight or Ben Asker? This is a guy who has no experience and he's about to do it. He's about to go in there after 19 months.

Can you share the emotions and thoughts going through your mind right now as you're about to embark on this journey? Well, six degrees of separation. You know, the first time I met Punk was with you. We watched the Ben Astrid Amosu fight in Chicago. Together you, myself, jail. That's right. And it's crazy that we're, that's what I was excited to come on. and share that with everyone, just the connectivity of everything.

But along with that, you know what, I'm grateful, one, for the friendship of punk, two, for this whole experience, because I think he is bigger than the sport. He's making a statement about life. If you have the ability, you've got a shot, you want to do something, it's a real-life Rocky movie. But getting back to the serious question at hand, yeah, this is a new territory for me. But you know what? I love it. I love new opportunities to grow.

I love new opportunities to get better. And this is one of those situations. Normally, you know, you go to a fight with these experienced vets, and it's a different situation, you know. They're so, how should I say, seasons, you know, going with a guy like, you know, Anthony Pettus, He's so seasoned, it's a pretty easy trip. This one, it's going to be tough because I'm going to be basically walking punk through the whole situation. But I enjoy that. It's like my parents have seven kids.

We have one deceased, so eight children. But there was a 12-year gap between myself and my youngest brother. And that's how I feel almost as a fight coach. I've got these grown children. And now I've got this new one that I've got to bring into the realm of, You know, so I'm starting to relate like my father almost. And, you know, I got this new guy that's completely raw. There's no experiences to go on, but I love it.

I mean, every day he gets stronger and he's getting better. That's the fun part about this. When someone is so raw, the improvement comes so quick. And when someone gets really good, it gets harder to gain ground. And that's the most fun of this situation, honestly. But you get to get a different experience. And that, to me, at the end of the day, is the experience, the journey, that's what motivates me to keep doing this all the time.

He's a tough dude. He's a little crazy in a good way because I think you've got to be a little crazy to be a WW wrestler, wrestle, 300 days a year, travel, the schedule they do. You know, he's a very resilient person, and I'm very excited. to see what he can do in the oxygen. He's shown for promise in the practice. Guys like Anthony,

Tyron, they've really, you know, taking him under. And I think he's really good for the sport. The message he's put out there. You know, a lot of the guys,

they're always negative about money and they're attacking punks, but they don't realize that high tide raises all ships. You know, Ronda Rousey was great for the sport. That huge event they had in Melbourne, in Australia, bringing, you know,

our whole goal is to bring new fans, new fans, new fans. We've got wonderful loyal fans, but if we want to help the fighters make even more money, we need more marquee names and, you know what, the WWE fans are going to tune in and hopefully fall in love with the rest

of the other UFC fighters in the UFC. And that's my whole goal of doing this for the greater good of the sport. Do you recall what you were thinking back in January of 2015, your very first training session with Punk, where you kind of got to figure out where he was at. Do you recall what you were thinking?

And did you ever have a moment when you were like, wow, this is tougher than I thought. He's not as advanced as I thought. We're going to need a lot, a lot of work. Like, what were you thinking that first day? Do you remember? We can do this. The whole time I've just always stayed very positive.

I forgot who this said the quote, but no one said it would be easy, but I did say it would be worth it. And that's the mindset. I had coming into this whole process. And, you know, you just got to look at it as if you want to be part of a big dream, you've got to be part of the bigger struggle. And that was my attitude coming through the whole thing.

You know, sometimes I get blessed. I get a guy like Tyron Woodley who later in his career, he comes to my camp, the last three fights, but he's so easy to tweak because he's done all that work. he's, you know, it's easy to give him a couple little pointers and it changes his game and he does awesome things. And, you know, but if you really want to be there, you know, for the success, I'm on my mottoes, we grind together, we shine together. And that's just the attitude I had. I tried to adopt punk's mentality. I'm doing this.

This is what I want to do. So I tried to have the same atmosphere going into this fight. I actually did the same thing coming into Anthony's last fight. As a coach, I try and get similar mindset to the athlete. I've only told a couple people this, Anthony, one of my really good friends in Canada and one of my business partners. If Anthony Pettis would have lost his last fight, I was going to stop coaching. What?

He had his back against the wall. I had my back against the wall. And, you know, I'm serious. That's how much this kid's life and career means to me. But that's how invested I am as a coach. And that's the mentality I have coming to this punk fight is not, well, it's not a negative attitude. Or, you know, well, skeptic about it, I was all on board. We're going to make this guy's dream a reality.

I'm an overachiever myself as an athlete. So I can't help, but I'm sentimental for Rocky movies, and I like rewriting the script and making our own Rocky-type finishes. So I'm excited to be going to the Octagon with him this week, because to me, he transcends more than sport. It's, again, I'm just emotionally connected to his journey because I have a lot of respect for him. He doesn't need to do this.

He's, you know, had an incredibly successful. successful career in the WWE has the financials. He's got a great wife, great life who also is a former champion. But his dedication has inspired me and inspired a lot of people

around us. To see people who don't have to do something work harder than people who do have to do this is pretty special in my eyes. So you were prepared to walk away from MMA coaching had Pettus loss to Oliva in Vancouver? Yeah. Yeah.

I take responsibility for winning and losing when you're coaching. You know, I'm the type of guy that I want to be in the trenches with my people. I feel like we had one of the best camps we've had in a long time. And the connectivity, you know, I was inspired by Anthony's hunger as well, too. I mean, it was a very crucial part of his career. Yeah, I was. I just, you know, I, you know, No one took the losses worse than me than, of course, Anthony.

You know, just I know what his potential is, and I know what he's capable of, capable of when he gets his stars on. He's a special force. And, you know, I just want to see him shine, and he did. And I feel like the next stage of his career is going to be a special one. He's got a special, special motivation right now. Did Pettus know about that that you were considering that?

No, no, I didn't want to cloud his vision. I just, you know, I didn't want to cloud his, um, his, you know, thoughts and mine. I didn't want my hang up to be his hang up if that, if that makes sense, you know. Oh, it's just where I was at as a coach and professionally, you know, I just, I don't know, maybe it was a psychological trick that just made me extra hungry this camp. I don't know if it was reality or not, but that was a mindset I had coming in. And sometimes that's what it takes to win a fight is getting your mind right. You know, you don't have to be a god all year.

You only got to be a god on fight night. So, you know, the mind's an incredible thing, and it can either play tricks on you or you can play tricks on your mind and make it do things special for you. And, you know, it's just working on that tower of the mind and spirit. That's getting back to punk. That's what he brings to this contest.

I think Mickey's a tough fighter. I've watched a lot of film on them. Young, tough kid, you know, very talented team. You know, like any other UFC fight, there's no easy fights in the UFC. It's going to be a tough fight. But punk's here to win. He trained to win.

You know, similar to the way Anthony Pettis won that. our deal a few weeks ago, punk's ready to go wherever it goes and out fight his opponent. And that's what we've been training to do. And he's doing a hell of a job at it right now. So I recall when this whole thing started, you said you want him for 365 days at least to to really, you know, feel confident that he's ready to do this, to step inside the octagon. Now he's had ups and downs. He's had injuries. He's had to, you know, take a break or two. So it's been longer than that. But do you feel confident? Like, okay, when you start, started, you were thinking you had something in your mind that he said, okay, he has to be at a certain

point to be ready and for you to feel confident that he was going to go in there and succeed. Do you honestly feel that way on this Tuesday before the fight? Do you feel like he's done enough, that you've done enough as his coach, that he is finally ready to do this? Yes, that's why I just had a great weekend. You know, you come in with a peace of mind knowing that you're ready. you know you know that you put the work in you know you put the dedication and the enthusiasm um you know it and i think the turning point was when he finally booked the fight is it's where we

saw him grow the reach it's i think a lot and i the one thing that's what i knew he was a real fighter too because that's when all my fighters turn into someone else a lot of them train year-round very well they're great guys they're dedicated but i see the journey start when the bowed agreement signed. You know, it's that commitment level. There's no turning back. And I saw that in him. And

that sparked his performance and getting better, getting better. Were there setbacks? Yes. We had one bad day last week. He just didn't have a good day. You know, that happens in training. But you know what? He used it as a springboard. And the bad day

had a 360-degree you know, I'm not exhuming that 360, 180 Yeah. To the extreme, the opposite way, all of a sudden he turned into someone else, and he used,

uh, just a little off day, you know, and, and again, I just see him having some character traits that make people great fighters, you know,

and, uh, now I'm excited. He's going to go on there and scrap. And, uh, that's the thing. Uh,

I didn't prepare him to be Anthony. Petit, you know? Just like I don't prepare Tiring Woodley to try and be Anthony Pettus, you know, I'd look at someone's skill set, mindset, and that's how we're going to train him. He's not going to be, you know,

this guy running off a cage kicking people, but he's going to be hitting people hard. He's going to be wrestling, grappling, ground and pounding. You know, he's going to be a blood and gut, blue-collar fighter out there, but you know what? The fans are going to be entertained, and he's going to be

fighting to win and fighting to finish. You mentioned earlier that you've been watching a lot of tape on Mickey Gall, but there isn't all that much out there. Like, you feel like you've been able to see enough on this guy? His one UFC fight was, what, like 90 seconds or so? Then he has this, you know, this sort of independent show, you know, very low level. Like, do you feel like you've been able to see enough on the guy?

No, no. But, hey, it's a horse apiece both ways, you know? Right. I mean, to me, it's when you do, like when I train an amateur athlete and really push our coaching staff at our team, not to over-emphasize on game plans when you fight in the amateurs, because it's kind of like the scene in the Coliseum. You know, we don't know what's going to come through the gates here, right? That's how a newer fight is.

You just don't know. I mean, I always joke, Anderson Silva had his first amateur fight. Matt Hughes did. And I remember Anthony Pettis did. He just destroyed this guy, you know. And, you know, you never know who you're getting, you know. Every great stars had their first fight, you know. And, I mean, one of my amateur girls in kickboxing had the displeasure of fighting Holly Holm

and one of her first national amateur tournaments. 41 seconds later, the towel goes in the ring and Holly Home is, you know, the victor, you know. So the unique thing about fighting new fights, you don't know. There are a lot of question marks, but that's what's going to make this fun. You know, you guys, all the MMA reporters, you have a good idea who to pick in a fight. But I still think it's hard to pick a winner in this fight, too. I mean, even with Mickey's experience, it's not a landslide amount of experience as well. So when do you get out there?

About seven tonight. I'm going about 515. We're going to do a later session tonight. I go way back with Marcus Marinelli and Steve's team, his manager is a former business partner and friend of mine. So Cleveland's almost a home fight for me. So we're going to be training at Strongstyle all week. So we're going to do a late session around fight time tonight.

And just, you know, punk goes way back in Cleveland too. Obviously wrestled there a lot, the indie days and the WWE days. So it's going to be a good time. Yeah, it's amazing. It's amazing. I saw him tell you on the Evolution of Punk show that that's the building that he walked out on the WWE. Isn't that nuts that he comes back and this is where his debut is?

That kind of blows my mind. You know what? I think someone in the UFC knows a lot about the WWE. Crazy. They're just not saying, no, it's awesome. I mean, I've always said that mixed martial arts is unlike any other sport. I think that mixed martial arts is real wrestling. And my biggest advice to most of these fighters is create your character, your aura.

It doesn't have to be fake either. Like Joe Wauson, I'm a big fan of Joe because just who he is. He reps who he is. And that's the thing of some of the fighters, they haven't learned yet how to do things to separate themselves from other fighters. That's something I always worked down with Anthony Pettis, the Showtime moniker. He's lived up to it. And I try and help other people. Even Tyrant, we used our filming crew from the Duke of Strike University to do a champ camp this time.

I mean, there's so many opportunities out there to create your persona these days, you know, using social media, do more videos, et cetera. You know, because we can always talk about the rankings, but the rankings are not really what pushes the sport, unfortunately. that's in real wrestling, the NCAAs, but in prize fighting, it always comes down to what fight the fans want to see the most and pay the most for. And that's my biggest advice to these youngsters. Just keep working that.

I'm just grateful to be in this stage of the sport. Because I go to these events, I meet more younger fighters, new people, and man, these guys are getting good so fast and the sports moving so fast. I've got to be on my toes as a coach constantly getting better myself. It's just fun, and it keeps everything fresh,

and, you know, there's always a new challenge ahead of us. And it's just, again, an incredible time, you know, the sports growing exponentially, and I see the UFC and Bellator and all the other shows only getting bigger. Do you envision a finish? Do you envision the way the fight, is there some kind of vision that keeps coming up

how you see this fight going down on Saturday? On knockout or submission. Early or late? Wherever it's got to happen. It could happen early, but, you know, we're ready to go toe-to-to-toe. I shouldn't say we because him, you know, are leaving game planning, but he's the one he's going to get in there and do the blood and gut, sweat and tears. And, you know, he's things going to the long haul or the show.

short term, he's ready. I mean, he's done a good job of putting himself in bad positions and bad places and training. He's really focused himself to do that. By the way, what happens to your Twitter? Where to go? I'm just not into Twitter. I'm really love, I'm an Instagram guy.

I share a lot of technique videos on there. And, you know what, as an older dude, I'm like, I love that. socially, but I do Facebook and I do Instagram and that's enough for me. You get enough emails, enough text in life. You know, it's like hard to keep up. I feel bad. I can't keep up with my friends and family and even my responsibilities. It's like something's got to go and that was one of them.

I tried to eliminate, but I do share a lot. I'm a nerd on the Instagram. I do pictures and I like sharing a lot of, if they're not like techniques I'm teaching, I just like sharing cool strikes, admissions, et cetera. Me, it's a lot of fun. I like kind of networking back

and forth with fans and practitioners of all the martial arts. Final thing for you, Duke, and again, thank you so much for the time before you head out to Cleveland. Do you at all feel like what happens on Saturday with Punk will be sort of, as I said to Anthony, like this indictment on you as a coach,

because you have been given this opportunity that, you know, brought you some notes. notoriety and more fame even though you didn't really need it. And he kind of picked you as opposed to vice versa. I mean, so many people were campaigning to have punk come to the gym. You didn't do that. And, you know, he just shows up. And there's a lot of eyeballs and there's a lot of naysayers and there's a lot of doubters. And everyone, it seems like that you're either kind of rooting for him to fail or succeed. Everyone has a take on whether or not you should be there. But at the end of the day, everyone wants to just see how he's going to fight. And you're the head coach. And do you

feel that pressure going into this one? Do you feel like, okay, whether he looks good or succeeds or doesn't, it's going to reflect on me positively or negatively? Oh, obviously. I mean, like I said with Anthony Pettis, I can't have for one person not be the other. I feel responsible physically, emotionally, spiritually, mentally, mentally, you know, you know, this is, I help them choose this path, you know. I am very emotionally connected. So if he does not have the performance he wants, I'm, I'm,

going to be part of that process. You know, definitely, definitely going to be that. And, you know, I'm going to have to take responsibility, too. You know, and I do. I mean, those are always, I'm a firm together.

We win and we lose together. You know, it's, uh, um, there, there's not going to be excuses, just, uh, adjustments if that's the case. Wow. But, you know, that you got to. I mean, me as a former fighter,

there's nothing worse. when people turn their coattails on you and run, you know. And it's happened to me personally myself, and it's like losing your parents, you know, when your coaches turn on you or people turn on you. It's one of the hardest sports in the world. I have no regrets being in it. The only thing I'm regretful of is bad behavior by people.

You know, it takes a special person to go in there and do what these guys do. on the stage that they do it. And, you know, not to have respect for people who do that, it really, it saddens me because this is a special sport and they're special people. And I'm always there with my guys, you know, when women, win-lose or drop, you know, it's still better than not doing it.

You know what I mean? At the end of the day, he's still doing something that most of the world population have not dreamed of or can't dream or do. So, you know, I respect all these people who get in there and do it. You know, when things don't go right, I'm not going to run and hide. I'm going to stand with them. Well said, Duke.

Good luck this weekend. Can't wait. This is going to be fun. Enjoy this ride. No, no. It's, again, I use the word grateful a lot, excuse me, but I am every new experience. This is, and you know what, I'd like to send a big shout out to all those CM Punk fans listening.

You guys are amazing. They're starting to support a lot of our other athletes, and punk has touched just a group of people in this world, and especially a lot of people from different genres of life. People who are into comics and, et cetera, it's just not wrestling fansy. And people are in punk rock, and, you know, it's cool. It's been a neat journey for me. And actually, one of the cool things I got to do, I got to meet Lars from the band Rancid at our gym. That was super cool.

You know, it's a lifelong music fan. I'm always, me, I geek out when I meet musicians. That's my thing that I love, music. So, again, just grateful and excited for Saturday. Well, I can't wait for it. I wish you guys the best. Congrats on getting to this point. And, of course, good luck on Saturday.

so much, Duke. It was great to catch up again. Thank you, sir. Have a wonderful day. All right, there he is. Duke Rufus, head coach for one CM Punk, who makes his MMA and UFC debut on Saturday night. All right, let's move along now. Like I said, a lot of talk about the heavyweight division this week coming off of Hamburg, and of course this weekend with the heavyweight title on the line, a man who is very much in that mix is the former champion Junior Dos Santos. Cigano is on the phone right now. JDS, how are you?

I'm good at you and you. doing great. Thank you for the time. It's great to talk to you as always. It's same to me. It's always good to talk to you. So how is the shoulder? Are we 100% now? Yeah, I think 95% right now. But almost there, you know, the doctor allowed me to come, to go back training. So I'm feeling good, you know. Thank God for that. So has your doctor told you when, like, Have you been able to start MMA training? Do you feel like you're ready to do that? Yeah, I already started.

You know, I can go that hard right now, you know, but I can start doing like jih Tizzo and wrestling positions, all this kind of things, you know. I can go hard, you know, for real, but like a normal fight, but I can do like everything. Okay, so what's the word? What do you think is next for you now? Man, I'm not sure, but I'm looking forward to be back, you know, in action because, yeah, it's everything what I want, you know, everything what I do, everything what I love to do.

So anyone, anyone that you actually want me to fight with, I'll be glad to be facing this guy. It doesn't matter who he is. Okay, so this weekend, you know the title's on the line. It's Tipe Miochich versus Alastrovereem, and you know these guys very well. Who better than you to ask about these two? Because you've been in there with both of them. Who's your pick and why? Between Neuchich and Overeign.

Yeah. I think Neuchich is living in a great moment right now, and he's a great athlete. Overeign, too, is a good guy as a great athlete. But right now, I think the moment is for Neuchich. So I think he's going to win this fight. You know, and by knockout. By early or late?

Second round. Second round. Now, are you picking with your heart or your mind? Because we know you and Alistair aren't the best of friends. Are you kind of hope... Oh, yeah. Actually, I have a... I can't say that I have a good relationship with him.

Oh. But it's normal, you know? Yeah. He's okay. And I'm okay with him, too. So it's part of the thing, you know. And, but I'm talking with my mind, you know, I'm just giving my opinion about the fight. You know, I know how I'm always overused, like I said, a good athlete, you know,

and we'll put on a good show for everybody. But I think me or chips live in a better moment right now. Okay, and what about Fabrice Verdoom and Travis Brown? Do you think it's going to go the same way as their first fight? Oh, that first fight was good, you know. So it was good to watch. And I hope they can give us a good show like they did that time. But, yeah, I think Verdun will win again.

Yeah. You know, after UFC 200, you were all over the place because right after Brock Lesnar's win, you tweeted, can I see you now? And everyone was thinking, wow, what a great tweet. JDS versus Brock Lester, this is great, this is a great fight. You know, what an amazing style matchup, all that stuff. and of course now we know that Brock is going to be out, maybe never returned. What was your reaction when you found out that he failed two drug tests? Well, I wasn't surprised, you know, because sometimes we can see that the guys,

their performances are too much for them, you know? Something is wrong over there. Yeah. But I'm not saying that I knew he was on drugs, on this kind of things, but, you know, we should fight. Back in like four years ago, something like this, when we did the tough 13. Yeah. Me and him, we should fight at the end of the season, but we didn't because he got sick.

And that's why I caught him, you know, I said maybe it's the time. But again, we were not, maybe you guys will never see that fight. Yeah. Because now maybe he's not there. He's never going to come back. Are you disappointed that it looks like it's probably not going to happen at least now? No, actually, I don't care. I don't pick opponents.

I don't pick opponents. And what I have to say is thank you. Thank you for Yusada. They are doing a great job because we want a clean sport. You know, we want to know who's the champion for real. Not those fake champions. You know, not those fake performances that we were seeing at some point, you know. So thank you, Yusada, for doing a good job with these things.

Your old friend Mark Hunt, very upset about what happened. Do you feel bad for him? Do you see his point why he's so upset about the whole situation? Yes, of course. You know, this is our life here, you know. We do everything for this, you know. We spend our money, we put all our time on that thing, you know, and, well, our life is all about that. Then we go there and we have fake results, fake people fighting against you, fake performances, you know, fighting against you.

So it's not good, you know, it's a really bad thing. and I hope Usada can you know my gosh, how can I say that? They can like done with that. Yeah. Clean up the sport.

He won... Clean up the sport, that's it. He wants some of Brock's money. Do you think he deserves that? Because they actually fought and he failed the test before the fight? I think so. I think so.

Man, Brock beat 2.5 million. Something like that. Come on. It's crazy. Come on. That's a lot of money, man. And I think Brock could, and this guy, I don't know how much Mark Hunt made, but he's a legend of this sport, you know,

and there was a terrible thing for him and for his family. So I think that's the minimum that Brock left for do or the UFC. Yeah, Brock probably even made more than that because he probably got a pay-per-view and all that. My gosh, you see this? It's horrible. This guy, man, this is incredible. This guy that talk a lot, you know, they come and they make a lot of money.

And like McGregor now, $3 million. Yeah. Just on the purse. That's a lot, you know. Does that piss you off? I think I need to learn how to do that. Yeah. So now you're going to start talking more and talking smack about your opponent.

Is that what we're going to? No, I'm not that way, you know. I tried to do that much. When, you know, I wasn't saying too much. I was just, you know, bring. I was just, I was just talking about what they were doing said in the past, you know. And then everybody started to say bad things about me. I said, man, it's not for me.

I don't know how to do this thing. You're too sensitive, right? You're too nice of a guy. Yeah, I can't do that. I can't do that. I'll keep being. General Santos, I'm good with that. I'm happy with that as well. Don't change.

Did you watch Josh Barnett against Andree Alofsky on Saturday? Yes, I did. What a good fight, man. That was good to watch. Yeah. Two great guys. And that was good to watch. I kind of feel like JDS versus Barnett makes some sense. What do you think of that? I think so, too. Yeah. Any one of them, like I said, man, maybe, you know, we can have this fight happening. me and Barnett or me and any one of them me and Verdun, me and King of Alaska's

because the King of Alaska just fought. That's right. I think he's going to be the next for the title. Yeah. But if he don't, then we can fight again for the fourth time. Four times. You want that? Like I said, Ariel, I don't care about who I'm going to be fighting against, you know.

I just want to fight, you know, because I want to show people how good I am. And why I believe so much that I can be the champion again. Yeah. Especially coming off that last win, which we talked about last time, probably your best performance since you became champion, right? I think so, yeah. I felt like I found myself again. Yeah.

Because I was too much worried. I was worried about takedowns, about the jihad. I have to improve my jihadts. I have to improve my takedowns. I have to improve my rassals. my Muay Thai. Come on. I'm a boxing guy, man. I know how to use my hands, so that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to knock this guys out, all of them. How many times have you watched it that Ben Rothball fight? I think one, ten times, something like that. It's fun, right? One of the things that I learned

was to stud myself, you know. I was to watch a lot of my fights now, especially the ones. that I sailed, like with Ovary, you know? The fights like with Canva Lasquez, he was better, you know. He was, he did a, he had a great performance on that night, and, you know, I'm not saying that overing wasn't better than me, he was, but that was a, I, I, I felt, I feel like I give too much space for him. I allowed him to do that with me. So, I want to change those kind of things, you know, I want to impose.

myself during the fight and throw some hard punches on their faces. Speaking of boxing, recently you were training with a boxing champion Anthony Joshua, right, in Brazil? Yeah, we did actually. We did a small training there, you know. What a nice guy. How did that happen? It was a good experience.

How did you link up with him? Yeah, actually it was one of the... sports brand, the sports brand that brought him and me for Rio. Then we met and we did a training there with Under Armour, you know, Under Armour brothers there and did a little, little training between us, you know. Everybody knows that I'm a boxing guy, you know, and for me was a big pleasure to be training one, training with one of the best guys. boxing.

He's really good. Are you a nice guy? Are you an underarmor guy now? Not yet, but I'll almost. All right. I love that. I talk to him, you know, to them. But let's see, let's see, maybe.

Oh, I hope so. Good luck. Thank you. So you were in Rio for the Olympics, right? Yeah, I was there. I was commentating the boxing match for, you know, for Brazil. Wow. And that was a great experience, too.

That's amazing. So what do you think? There was a lot of controversy with the judging and everything. Do you think it's corrupt? Do you think they need to change the amateur system and the boxing, the Olympic scoring? Do you think it's a mess? It was a mess before. You know, it is a mess right now.

It's kind of hard, you know, to judge that thing, you know, because it's all about what they see, or the judge see. Everywhere is like that. You know, even in MMA. You know, sometimes it's hard to accept. So we have to deal with that and, you know, keep going. Did you get a chance to see any of the other events while you were in Rio? I didn't.

I saw a volleyball game where Brazil lost the gold medal and some of these things, you know. But I was, yeah, I was following on TV, you know, the soccer or soccer match and some of the games. So if JDS, based on your experience with Anthony Joshua, JDS goes into boxing right now, how do you do? Do you think you can, you know, here we are talking about CM Punk coming to the UFC and all that stuff. Do you think that you can go right into boxing and become a champion right away, or would you have to change your habits? and the way you train all that. Oh, come on, Ariel. That would be paradise for me, man.

Come on. Not worrying about takedowns. No worry about Jitzo about kids. Come on. That would be paradise for me, man. I would be, like, very... I would be home. I would be home for sure, you know.

I'm a great... Actually, I love boxing, you know. Everybody knows that. Yeah. And I think I could do that. Well, but I cannot start a career right now, you know. That long time, like when I was champion, I challenged the champion, the current champion of the world that was Vladivoccal at that time, you know.

Maybe you never know so, but I can tell you, man, that would be paradise for me. So wait a second. You say it would be paradise that you would be home. Why don't you do it? I mean, you can get paid. You can, you're a big name. It would be a big deal. why don't you just do boxing?

I think, you know, actually, I love M.A. You know, I love what I do and who I am here, you know. I love the Cigano here at MMA. And I cannot start a career right now, you know, in boxing. It's kind of hard, you know. In boxing, there's too many organizations, too many people, you know, negotiating. I don't know, but that's kind of hard. All right.

I would do that if I had a great opportunity, but I can tell you, I'm really happy being Junior Dos Santos, the M&A fighter. You should be now. Do you live full-time in Florida now? Yeah, almost that. Almost that. I'm here the most part of the year.

You feel good? You feel good with the move and with the team there. You feel like you're comfortable, you're in a good place? Yes, I feel good. You know, I feel it's good to be here in America, you know. It's an amazing country and the opportunities that I'm having here.

I can take care of myself better here, too. Oh. So we can bring people to help me. And, well, everything is going good. And I think with a time, it's going to get better. What do you mean when you say that you can take care of yourself better in America? Like, we can have good supplements. we can have good food.

It's easier to get that thing. There in Brazil, it's to have like a good equipment to train, to train, good supplements to take. It's so expensive and so hard to have that. And here, you can go to the market and buy it. It's amazing, right?

America, the land of opportunity. Yeah, yeah. American is America, man. Are you going to go to Cleveland to watch the fights? Say it again? Are you going to go to Cleveland this weekend to watch the heavyweight title fight? That's your division. Yes, I will.

I'll be there. Actually, I'm very excited for this. You know, I can't wait to see everything going on. Again, I'm feeling like, you know, I'm really happy and I'm feeling relaxed because I'm going, I'm going. I'm going, I'm starting a new moment in my career. That's what I'm seeing, right? Wow.

Because, yeah, because all this time, if you remember, in my last fight, I was saying, man, this last two years were hard for me because I have too many injuries. So, man, now three years, almost three years, because I had another injury. So that's hard for us, you know. I was going through a tough moment, but it was good, you know, because I think it made me strong, and I'm coming to win again. When was the last time you felt this good, this happy, this relaxed, this comfortable? Do you recall the last time you felt this way?

Yeah, I think, man, I think it was when I might be doing on UFC. What? Because, yeah, I felt so happy about that, and I'm kidding like that again, you know. I have too much confidence on me. I really, really believe that I'm going to be the champion again. I take a look on the division right now, you know, on these guys and everything what's happening. You know, I respect all of them, especially the champion. Miochich is a great champion.

But, man, I'm coming for all of them. Oh, my. I'm feeling like that. You know, I can do it. Last thing, in a perfect world for you, when would you like to? return? Like, do you have a month in mind, an event in mind? Yeah, like I said before, I think I'm going to be able to come back in December. Okay, okay. At the end of November, but I think December is better.

Okay. At the beginning of December, I think it's going to be a good time, a good time for us. We're going to have a, I think UFC is going to have an event at Canada. Toronto. December 10th. Yes. Something like this. This one would be good. Oh. I don't know, anyone, anyone.

Oh, they'll love you in Toronto. Toronto's a great place. Yeah, I fought in Vancouver. That's right. That's right. The Canadians are very nice. They like nice people like you, JDS, so I think you'll feel fit in very nicely that. What a pleasure.

Great to catch up with you. I'm very happy to hear that you're doing well, mentally, physically. Great news. And hopefully we'll see you out there in Cleveland. Have a safe trip. Enjoy the fights. And again, thank you so much for the time. Always love having you on the show, Jr.

Cool. Thank you very much. I'll see you there in Cleveland. All right. There he is. The former UFC heavyweight champion, Junior Dos Santos. Very excited about his future. Now, who knows JDS better than our next guest? How about this? We've got the unicorn on our show. That's what I call Kane Velasquez because he's such a hard guy to pin down, but we have found him. I believe he is on the phone right now. Kane Velasquez, are you there?

Just kidding, I'm here. For a second, my heart stuff. Such a hard guy. What a pleasure. Thank you for coming on, Cain. Donald Pohn, thank you. I could feel just the enthusiasm coming out of you. You're so happy to do this on a Tuesday morning. You could think of nothing better to do

than come on my show this Tuesday, right? Exactly, especially this Tuesday, yeah. Right. All right, well, there's a lot going on, Cain. There's a lot going on in your life in the heavyweight division. So here we are. We're just days away from the heavyweight title being defended, steppe Miochich versus Alster Overeem.

you know, we had a guest on earlier in the show, Dave Meltzer, who said that maybe one of the reasons why this heavyweight title fight doesn't feel like such a big deal, because you returned in July, not that long ago, around two or so months ago now, and we kind of got a glimpse of, you know, maybe who the real best heavyweight in the world is. Do you feel that way? Like, do you feel like people still kind of view you as the heavyweight king, even though you're not technically the champion? Yeah, I think so. You know, people know that if I'm 100% going into a fight that there's nobody out there that can touch me, you know,

and I still feel that way going in and practice every day, you know. It's just some things that I've had to change to be that guy again, you know, and it was just more, more rest during the workouts during the camps, more maintenance on the body, and with that, I mean, I'm able to perform the way I want to. So right now, how do you feel? Like, you feel, you know, two months after your fight, Do you feel like you figured out that formula of trying to be in the best shape possible? I feel like I have.

I feel like I've done enough to be ready for a fight, but not too much where I have little nagging injuries in my body. So, you know, I'm excited, you know, for this fight, for steep in and over him to fight. And, you know, I want the winner. I want the winner of whoever wins. I know I can beat, you know, whoever wins. So that's what I'm looking for. Is it weird for you to see two other guys not named you fight for the heavyweight title?

Do you feel like they're kind of fighting for your belt? You know what? No, no. Right now, you know, those guys on the position that they're in, you know, because all the hard work that they have put in and I just know if I get my chance or just when I get my chance, you know, I'm going to get that back and I'm going to hold it for a long time. Have you or your management been told that you are getting the winner?

We haven't. We haven't. I think it's more of a thing that, you know, we just have to wait and see what happens with that whole night, with that car to fight, you know. And then, you know, we'll see. We'll see what happens. But I feel like I'm deserving the next title shot. So hopefully. Okay, who's your pick? Steeper, or Overeem? Who's my pick? You know what? I'm not much of a guy who picks fights. Oh, come on, Kay. I don't care who wins. I'm not a fight fan. really. I don't really care who wins. I want the best guy to win and I want to fight the best guy and that's it. That's how I see it. So you don't have a preference like, oh, this will be a better fight, this will be a more interesting fight for me. You don't feel that way at all? No, no, both guys are different. I feel like, you know, over him, obviously is a guy, great stand-up

guy, you know, who would want to keep the fight on the feet. Definitely, yeah, I feel like, like Steve-A is more similar to my style. He does everything really well. You know, he's good, he's conditioned. He's a smaller heavyweight. I feel like both guys pose threats, you know, in their own rights. And I felt like, you know, with my style of fighting, I can beat both those guys, yeah. So you say you don't watch a lot of fights. Will you even watch this one on Saturday? Maybe. I might watch it. Will you be there? Will you go?

Will I be there? You know, the UFC hasn't had me, they haven't asked me to go, so I'm guessing not. And, you know, I think now in this day and age, I mean, guys don't have to be at the fight. You know, you kind of know who's the number one contender is and everything else. So you kind of know who will get the next title shot, definitely. Okay, so you feel confident. You don't have to show up. You don't have to sit in the front row. You think you're getting it just based off of who you are, your last performance, all that stuff.

I think so. I think so, yes. Are you surprised that Travis Brown is coming back so quickly after, you know, what you did to him two months ago? I think so a little bit, you know, but it just shows, you know, what type of guy he is, you know. He feels like he can come back and fight a better fight against Redoom, and, you know, I feel like he can too, you know. So, you know, with him and Verdume on the last fight, they were, you know, first round, I would say, you know, Brown won that round And just with the

You know The shape issue I guess You know Burnham was always in good shape So he ended up winning that fight You know So he So I mean

With this next one I think It could be different It could be different In that fight The UFC 200 fight You opened the pay per view card And you just look like a man possessed So light on your feet

So agile I mean what a great performance You finish him in the first round the spinning wheel kick. I mean, wow, it was like watching a featherweight version of Kane Velasquez. When was the last time you felt that good in a fight? I felt that good. Or did you not feel good?

You know, I would say, I would say against, you know, against Los Santos probably, I would say. You know, that's the last time I felt that good. Yeah, yeah, against fighting him, you know. Which time? you know, um, just, uh,

I would say with the whole trilogy, I felt good. You know, the first, obviously the first fight, you know, there was some, I mean,

he was, he was better that night, you know, and that was it. No excuses, obviously. Um, but I felt good on the rematch

and then the, uh, the third fight. Um, but again, I feel like now, with, with how much experience that I have,

and, you know, with the hard work is that we have, I know what to do as far as, keeping my body, body, you know, at its optimum level. And that's not overtraining it, always doing, you know, massages, and that's all, that's not work for your body, you know, to keep you maintained.

And I feel like I'm doing that now. So it's helped me out a lot. And you see it in my last fight. When you were forced to pull out of that fight, Super Bowl weekend, was there ever a moment, you know, you had to get the minor back surgery? Did you question whether or not you'll ever? be able to return to the form that we saw in July? Were you starting to doubt yourself at all with all the injuries and everything going on?

You know, you do. You always start to doubt yourself. And then when you go back to the gym, you know, and obviously you take it slow the first, you know, for a couple months. And then when you're able to go ahead and train full go, I mean, I feel like I'm the same guy that I was before. You know, I'm moving the same.

I'm getting better, you know. So, you know, I still feel powerful and everything else. So as far as, you know, the little nagging issues, yeah, stuff that's happened, you know, in the past, definitely. And, you know, it could happen in the future. It could. But, you know, I'm here to work my butt off and I'm here to get that belt back. Do you feel like in the early stages of your career you made mistakes that you paid the price for? Or maybe does it go back to your wrestling days where you just kind of, because that's what everyone was saying.

Oh, he beat up his body. body too much, he put it, you know, too much strain on his back. Do you feel like you paid the price for that, you know, this year earlier on, you know, the back surgery and all that stuff? I feel like I pay the price now because back then I didn't, I never maintained my body, you know. It was more so always the mentality that I go into the gym and I'm ready to go, you know, it's never a thing of now, now I take like 30 minutes before practice and full roll, my, my body get all the knots out and you know I would say that's that's one of the best things that I've done that I've never done in the past you know the your body I mean our bodies are our race cars you know

we always need maintenance you know tires wheels we need a little tweaks here and there every day every day before practice and I wasn't doing that those maintenance is before practice or afterwards now I am and you know I know my body I know how to make it work at its optimum level now. So, yeah. Have you watched that fight against Redoom yet? I've watched, you know, a lot of the replays and stuff. So I pretty much watched it, yeah, yeah.

You know, I was there. I felt myself after the first round just, you know, not being able to give anything, but I was trying, you know, that's all you could do. And, you know, with that fight, obviously is the thing of not being prepared. and not going out to Mexico City beforehand, you know, like I should have. But you've never actually sat down and said, okay, I'm going to watch this from beginning to end in one sitting. No, no, I haven't watched the whole thing, no.

I just little, you know, bits and pieces of it. Is that important for you to do? Like, do you need to do that? Are you avoiding doing that? No, no. You know, if we get into rematch with Redoom, definitely, you know, we'll watch it. Okay. But right now, there's really, for me, there's no point, too.

I know what I did wrong there And you know that has to do with the preparation beforehand Yeah I know you were recently in Mexico City For some you know kind of media tour Victory Tour what was it like How did they receive you over there? Oh great you know

It's always great when I head down there And you know Just You know just always love and support You know what I mean And you know the people there Know what I'm capable of know that I can come back And uh

And get that back Elbeck, definitely. So you don't feel like the loss in Mexico City in particular affected your popularity there at all? It might have, definitely, you know? I mean, it's always good to go there and get a win, you know, I think

you know, but going around, you know, being in Mexico City, walking around, you know, just seeing the people there, I mean, they're big fans of this sport and, you know, they're, you know, I would say I'm their favorite, you know,

and I love to be that person. You know, I love that I am that person. I think a win definitely would have been much better, obviously, you know. But do I feel a difference between, you know, if I would have won or if I would have lost between the people? No, you know, I would say no, because the people there are just, you know, just so humble. They love you, whether, you know, you've lost or you've won. They're always behind you.

And I felt like since my career started, I've felt that, you know, on the social media and just talking to people. And that's great that I have fans like that are always behind me. So do you feel like you kind of owe them another, like even though training there is a little more difficult, the higher altitude, all that stuff, do you feel like you need to go back there at least one more time and fight in front of them and give them a victory? If the opportunity comes up, yeah, I would. I would go back there and fight. obviously can go back there and be prepared and do my whole training camp out there and, yeah, get a win in front of the fans over there, definitely. I wouldn't.

So you do the training camp start to finish, like not even a little bit in San Jose? You would do the whole thing there? Yeah, I would have to do the whole thing, you know? I would feel much better just, you know, me and my team to be out there and training out there and just doing the whole training camp out there. Wow. You know, I just think it's that big of a difference, you know, to be going there early, two weeks. It just wasn't enough, you know.

It needs to be the whole training camp out there. It needs to be eight weeks or nine weeks out there in training, yes. So you're a part of this movie, Kickboxer, Vengeance, the sequel, if you will. A lot of famous people, Jean-Claude Van Damme, and I read, I was reading about, you know, your involvement in the film. Is it true that when you were in college, you took acting classes? Is that right? You know, they're a little, yeah, of course. You get so many classes in college and electives and everything else like that.

And some of the classes we had to do acting, yeah. What? Okay, so this wasn't something that you thought you were going to be an actor or wanted to be an actor. I just can't see you in an acting class. I don't know. It just, you don't know. Not that I wanted to be, but, I mean, it was something different, you know. And, yeah, doing it, I mean, it's fun.

You know, I like it. It's fun. And obviously, if I get more. roles or, you know, offers to do movies, you know, I will do them, definitely. I know it takes a lot of, you know, hard-working scale, just like, just like fighting does it, but it's, you know, it's a different, different sport. I guess you, you know, you would say different craft. Sure.

I think it's, yeah, I think it's something that, that I like, definitely. Was it weird doing the film, like three or four weeks after the Verdoom fight with him on set? A little weird, yes. I'm not going to lie about that. Yeah, it was. Did you guys talk to each other? Like, what was that like? No, I mean, it's definitely, you know, it's just more of a, you know, high-by type of thing, you know, just respectful, you know.

Because he beat me that night, definitely, and it doesn't mean that I wasn't mad about it, you know. I want a rematch there in Thailand, but, you know, you can't do that kind of stuff. Whoa, you challenged him to a fight in Thailand on the set of the movie. Is that what you're saying? No, I said I wish. Oh, you wish. Okay, sorry, sorry. Yeah, yeah. But, you know, you just, again, it's all respect. You know, he beep me that night, so, you know, that was it.

Was he doing that face to you, like, from the other side of the, you know the face I'm talking about, right? The one that could, was he doing that kind of thing? Yeah, as I was doing the scene, yeah, he was doing, like, you know, he was doing an off and on. Oh, man, you must have wanted to punch him right. No, no, no. No, he wasn't. If he was, I probably would have walked over there. Yeah, give me a good one. definitely. Did you think about not doing it after the fight because he was involved and just, I'm sure you weren't really in the mood, right? No, you know, he's again, he's he's very respectful and I feel like I am too, you know, and again, you know, that was just, that was

just work, you know, we went out there and worked at night, you know, the, the night that we fought, you know, that's just what we had to do and he came out on top and, you know, I respect that for him for, you know, being out there so early, being prepared. You know, he had everything ready, you know, so there's nothing I could take away from Radoom that night. By the way, I was talking to JDS about this, and since, you know, you have this history with him as well, what was your reaction when you found out about Brock Lesnar and his failed

drug tests? You know, I would say from looking at his body, I mean, it didn't surprise me, you know. He's just a big, massive guy that you don't, you know, you don't see other fighters like that. and that he came out positive. You know, it kind of sucks. I just want my competitors, you know, the guys that I fight against to be on the table,

on the same level that I am, you know. And just to know people are out there cheating, I mean, it's good that we're catching them, you know, that was doing a great job of catching people cheating and everything else. And hopefully, you know, that discourages people from doing, you know, that sort of thing.

So we can all be a, you know, show the sport can be a clean sport. Yeah. Two last quick things. You'll always, I think, kind of be tied to Yaira Rodriguez because he's sort of that new generation of Mexican fighters, especially Mexican-born fighters. How far away do you think he is? Like, have you been, do you keep tabs on him? Do you watch him when he fights? And if so, how far away do you think he is from being, you know, a true contender in his weight class? man I mean you know just being on a tough show with him I know that this guy had you know something that we haven't seen before you know obviously he's style of fighting you know all the spinning kicks and everything else

I mean that's that's pretty cool stuff that we haven't really seen before and that he's just really effective when he goes out there and fights you know I think I think he's definitely a guy that can be a champion in the sport you know I think he's doing everything right He's training hard. He's young right now. He's going out there.

He's winning fights. So I think in the future he could definitely be a champion in the sport. And perfect world for you. When would you like to return? When what I, you know, why not this winter? I mean, that'll be good. Like, you know, as soon as these guys fight, they figure out who, you know, who's going to fight who. You know, like three or four months.

Let's do that. that. I mean, I think that'll be just enough time for everyone to get back at it, you know. Okay. By the way, do you do your own Twitter? Do you do your own social media? Yeah, yeah, me and, you know, the help of my wife, yeah. We do it all together. I don't know why I get such a kick out of the idea of you tweeting. Yeah, we've been trying to be more active, you know. I like it. Just the day and age of social media. We try to show people what we do normally. Yeah, yeah. You're such a stoic fellow, a serious fellow.

It's nice to see that side of you, you know? Yeah, yeah, you know, with the media, I'm a lot more reserved. And, you know, with family and friends, I'm a lot more outspoken. I'm a guy who likes to joke around. Sure. And, you know, I do actually talk, and I'm not always just serious. And, you know, I do smile a little bit here and there. Yeah, you and Daniel Cormier up there on the stage, 200, laughing at each other, giving each other the eyes.

It was a beautiful sight to see you smile. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, DC. I mean, you know, he's a big old goofball, so being up there with him, I mean, it's hard to keep a straight face, you know, with him just trying to joke around and stuff. Well, it was nice to see you back on track with a fantastic performance, maybe the performance of the night, if I'm being honest.

That was an amazing finish. So congratulations on that. And I hope you get the title shot. I don't think anyone disagrees that you deserve it next. So hopefully we get to see you back in there sooner rather than later. Thanks for coming on, Cain. What a pleasure. Don't be a stranger, okay? Hey, thank you. Okay, okay, I won't. Thank you. All right. Much love to you, Cain. There he is. Cain Velasquez, as the Mexican fans like to call him.

How about that? Tough guy to nail down, but we got him. Thank you very much to his manager, Mike Fonseca, for that. I appreciate it greatly. How about that? Kane Velasquez, knocking on that title shot door, I don't think anyone would disagree with that. Okay, let's move along. Let's keep this heavyweight theme. along, Fabrice Over Doom fighting this weekend. He was originally scheduled to fight. Ben Rothwell, unfortunately, Ben, unable to compete this weekend, so I wanted to talk to him about that and more. He joins us on the phone. Ben, are you there? Hi, I am. How are you doing? Hey, Ben. How are you? I'm good. It sounds like you're having quite the day here, so I shoot the heavyweets.

He had junior, then Kane and now me. And then Rico Verhoeven, the glory heavyweight champion, on next. How about that? Yeah, it's quite the, quick to, heavyweight data, yeah. Yeah, well, it's fitting because the heavyweight title is on the line this weekend, of course, as I said, you were supposed to fight this weekend. So you haven't talked much about it. Can you tell us what happened, why you had to pull out of the fight?

Fortunately, sustaining an injury and, you know, I kind of said that I hurt my knee. So I was trying not to talk too much about it. But, yeah, it was in training, and it was just, there's a little bit of time where I try to do what therapies I could. said I had everybody around me just my support system management and everybody just advised that surgery is what was needed so I'm in a healing state right now and that's where I feel about it you know emotionally as well because obviously it was a huge opportunity and you know it is sad because I felt like I matched out very good against for doom and it was a chance for me to

kind of show that show everyone like really what I really truly believe that I've been holding back and I have a lot more to show the MMA world. So that's where we're at, just in the process of recovery. And I stated, I'm hopeful for a return in early 2017, so we'll just have to see what happens. So you had the surgery, right? Yes. And it went well? Yeah.

Okay. Everything was going. They're feeling I'm healing even like I have a curve. So just that's it, you know, I was really just devoting the time to the therapy and doing the right thing. and for me and martial arts, you know, it all goes together anyway. So, not just time. I remember talking to you after the JDS fight, and you were a little bit, I guess, for lack of a better word,

disappointed that you went right back in there after the Barnett fight, but then here you were coming relatively quickly after that fight into this one. Do you feel like you pushed yourself too much this year? I mean, my actions that are showing at my body, you know, broke down. down and I feel that it could be some mismanagement. For me, it's the tale of, you know, listening to some of my interviews in March and some of the things I was saying about other guys getting injured and talking about other things, how people were fighting.

Yeah, kind of like it's tough, you know, it falls on my shoulders. It's like, oh, I really have to be careful how I'm saying things are coming at guys for things that you can't control. Injuries are a real, you know, bastard part of the sport. You know, just to say it's just nasty. It's because it is accidental. There is obviously a lot of injuries that take place from poor training and techniques and people not recovering right and getting pushed too much.

And then there's just some of us that are in our age and it's just like this, this is something that's been, you know, it's been with me. And, you know, my body just broke down. It was just one of those things. It was a combination of things. So that says a lot of life lessons going on this year. The knee surgery or the knee injury, I should say, was that, you know, like an injury that happened one day or was it a buildup of things that led to the injury? It was both.

Okay. So it was like they had some chronic issues and then there was an actual, you know, event. So as I said, it was just, it was tough for me. I didn't, you know, the doctors just said I'm too tough for my own good and just said, you know, I couldn't imagine somebody was walking with what I had, let alone trying to fight. So it's just where it's at and, you know, I carry on. Obviously, it's never good to suffer an injury or go under the knife. But considering you probably wanted to erase the memory of the JDS fight, that was such a frustrating night for you,

in a weird way, does this come at the worst time for you because you now have to sit on it a little longer? And it's just hard to say with, you know, for me, because the way I try to look at life about, you know, looking like it's not fair at times, but at the same time it is, because I've learned throughout the years that things happen when it's supposed to happen. And this time off right now, I'm really gaining some time to work some things with myself and just kind of really looking back to my mistakes before the junior fight and things that had happened.

And just listening to, like, you know, Kane and Junior just earlier. It's just like, yeah, Kane got knocked out in the first minute the very first time him and Junior fought. And Kane just said, you know, hey, he was the best. man at night, no excuses. You know, it is that for Junior. It's like he was a better man at night. We did go fight five rounds. And it's different.

It's like I figured you would ask Junior, like, oh, did you watch that fight? Did you like it? It's like, well, when you liked watching the cane fight better, he knocks him out in a minute and then didn't have anything. At least with me, I at least gave him some resistance. You know, and Junior has that. He beat Steepi the first time they fought.

He beat Verduem the first time they fought. Like, Junior gets that. just a very tough guy that gets that. I mean, he's just things about him that are hard to figure out the very first time you fight him. I can see that. And he taught me a lot. And being in there that rounds four and five, I can't say it enough. There's no dollar amount to pay for what I learned during that fight.

So I'm very excited for my return in 2017. I really truly believe I have a lot to show the MMA world. Like, I can make history, like with what I can do. I mean, if I just really let go of my talent and show them, everyone. I can bring the heavyweight division, you know, to the level needs to be. We need some exciting fights. People are willing to say what they're going to do and go out and do it and be exciting. And I mean, look at just how Barnett and Orlowski performed. I mean, did you watch the fight and did you think it was an exciting fight. Yeah, I actually enjoyed it. Did you?

Yes, I very much did. I think they did a great job. And then they show how professional, like, here's two guys that are like been for a long time. And to see the professionalism of the way that they could handle themselves, put up a great fight, and then both be in the press conference talking, you know, and it's just to entertain us and to show the M.M.A. at its finest, you know what I mean, how respectful they can be. And it's just, it's very inspiring for me. And just just look at the way the heavyweight division has as a whole in my age of all of us and the way that technique is triumphant older, you know, speed and power in the younger. there's where these 25 and 20-year-old heavy weights,

you know, sure they might come up and develop. Obviously, we've got kids doing MMA at each six years old now. Like, they're on their way, but right now, it's technique. Technique is what's surviving the heavyweight division. And I'm just, when I tell you, like, I listen to Kane, I'm listening to Junior, and they're very confident. I'll fight anybody. I'll do this.

And Kane says no one can touch them. And I know that I'm going to prove them wrong, because once I touch them, I'm going to end these fights. It's my technique that's going to prevail. So that's what's in store. Oh, I love it. I love it. Okay, well, let me ask you about this weekend. You know, you're talking about, you know, exciting fights and technique and living up to your word.

Do you feel like Miyoch and Overeem will produce that kind of fight that the heavyweight division needs that the fans deserve? Are you confident in that? I mean, I was like, if I was okay, I would go to the fight lives. You know, I was excited to perform in to be the coming event. I was very excited for the fight. it was a great opportunity being for, you know, just a, you know, heavyweight Maine and Co-Maine,

I just think bring something, then you had to see them Punk Factor. I think the, I thought there was some interest in the show. I'm most definitely going to watch the fight. It's interesting to listen to, like, Kane isn't going to watch. He's not very interested in M&A in that aspect. It is interesting.

Crazy, right? We're different. Yeah, we're very different. And, like, I love the sport, and I love parts of it as a fan and as my position. You know, what's going on with these guys? what's going to happen in these fights. You know, I'm interested in, of course, what Brown's going to do?

He can totally mess everything up by catching a right hand on Verdom. And I would just mess everything up, and I know it's what Kane wants to happen because he gets Verdum out of the way in a sense. And Steepa and Overreem, it's just like, yeah, Steepa is really, really right in a high wave. The guy's doing great. He's shown how skilled he is mentally, and he has a skill set that works for him.

And Overim is, like, taking his skill set to another level. He's getting very, very technical with how he counters people and how he baits them in and has the obviously he's proven he has the ability to drop knock the guy. Junior's very tough. I hit him a few times and like the guy's tough. The guy's been in wars

and he can take a beating and Overeem dropped him with a clean shot. So it's very important to see that. So I'm interested in to say which one. I mean, I would only say steep being a 51% really because I feel like it's really anyone's fight watching it, but he's got the hometown and he's got, he's riding a good wave

and, you know, I'm excited to see the fight. Okay, so you're favoring ever so slightly steepe. What's better? Like, who are you kind of rooting for? Do you have a pick as far as, like, better for the division, more exciting? Like, is there one that you favor over the other in that sense? Like, back in the Burnett fight, I was rooting for Burr. I like both guys.

I've known the guys for a long time, but I was, I was, why? Because I just fought Burnett. So it was, like, good to see him and to show everybody why he's so dangerous, why he is where he is. And with Steep A and Wolverine is like, is it because I had not, I beat Overim already, so it's better to, like, have the champion be a guy I already beat, you know, and have that rematch. Or is it Stepey because as Kane, it was trying to talk about matchups, it's like, or more like back to junior. Junior's like, oh, yeah, me and Kane number four, what's the interest level? People like fresh matchups. That's what I generally like to concede.

So Steepa and I are more of a fresher matchup in a sense. So is that a better fight? You know what I mean? I'm just like, yeah, so I, like, for doing it. more Brown, I'm watching that fight because either guy, it's like, either one wins, I need to fight the winner and get myself into this title fight, you know? And I don't think it's going to matter if it's Overim or Steepa, though. I mean, I need to fight both guys again because Overim's just proving like he's another guy, and I need to prove I'm on another level as well.

It's amazing to think that your win over Over Overeem was two years ago yesterday, September 5th, 2014. What a great performance that was. And I'm wondering if it's hard. hard for you to just like wrap your head around the idea that he got to the UFC title fight before you. Well, I chose to fight after my fourth fight and he chose to get a title fight. That was a self-inflicted wound in a sense. So I have to take it and carry on and know that I'm going to do this. And that's it.

That's why I went through the surgery. And you know what I mean? I didn't just take the fights and you need a paidy or something. That starts like, no, You know what I mean? I need to take the time and become the best I can be and show them and show it. Verdume Brown is fascinating because they fought once already

but also because Verdum is coming off a knockout loss. Brown's coming off, you know, TKO loss and, you know, very one-sided loss. What are you expecting to see out of these two? And do you have a pick in that one? I mean, I think the sensible choice would be Verdome. I mean, if he just comes all like him, he's going to work the same game type of game plan.

It's just that factor that Brown could catch him. Makes it exciting. Like, oh, and it's like if it happens, it would still be exciting. You know, I'm not going to be that shocked, but it could happen. So it makes that that world. But Roon has more techniques, I believe, especially we add in his ground, how much he's been working on striking. He was taking Brown down, so he proves he has got more.

So he's just an all-around better fighter. He just does. So, I mean, he should win. and in that case then Kane's got a you know it's not gonna be so easy to the title now

so because it's just I don't agree with throwing Kane in it was like cool you threw you know brown around

it's like that and I get a title fight because of that oh I don't think he should get a title fight just yet

no way like yeah he needs one more fight so you just okay okay that's interesting so who would

you give the title fight too well I think there just needs to okay you know this fight needs to

yeah I don't chill out I just do not see I see over Ream is going to chill. He's an older guy. He's going to chill out. Steve Bate just went bam, bam, bam, like put two fights away. He's going to say, hey, man, I want five months, six months.

Okay. Probably. I'm not. I could just foresee that. You know what I mean? If he wants to fight right away in this winter, okay. You know, but I see either guy taking some time, which is going to leave the winner of Travis Brown and Verdum needing to, yeah, prove a case, and they need the winner that

fights stays healthy. They're calling out someone like Kane. you know, I don't know. Really, it's really between King and that person because I mess things out. Right. That is interesting. You do make it, like, I can see Overeem taking some time off,

especially since he won in May, and Meotich fought that same month. So that is super interesting. Given your history in the sport, you know, you're a traditionalist, you know, you've been around, you know Johnny Come lately, you've seen and done it all.

How do you feel about CM Punk fighting in the U.S. on Saturday. Like a mix of emotions. I see many points of views, you know. It's good for, I want a business end. It's great, you know. More, more eyes on it. And then as a veteran of the sport, it's like, man, there's no dues paid, you know.

So it's just an interesting thing. I don't try to think too negatively about seeing him punky's a guy that was presented with an opportunity. He's taking advantage of the opportunity. And, you know, she's just taking it where he can go. you know, nobody, it's not like he came in and strong-armed the UFC and said, you're going to give me this and we're like, oh my God, he committed a crime. He's forcing them to, you know, pay him.

No, like the UFC offered him a contract. He accepted it. Like, any one of us, you know, may have done. So it's like, if you can get over it, I like, that's life. Like, it's just, there's some crazier opportunities happening. You know, more money getting thrown around. Maybe that could be good for everybody if it starts getting directed correctly. So I just try to look at that

And if anything for Steepay, I congratulated him When I knew it was Stephen Punk was going to put on Because he was getting paid on pay-per-view buys That's going to help him So that was a good thing for him So there's positives on this And more eyes on the sport is always good You know what I mean

There is no doubt that Dean Punk is a fan base You cannot deny it And they're going to watch them That's good for us Go out and make a fan out of You know, I went out that night And I was going to smack I was out there to murder somebody in a sense

With how I was going to finish to fight. You make fans that way. People that were, you know, knew you never watched it. Also, I'm like, oh, my God, what is this? You know, that's kind of opportunities we look for. So with that being said, what's going to happen to them? I don't know.

I see videos and footage and stuff, and just like, you wonder, you know, again, another reason I want to watch, it's going to be interesting. Will you watch? Yeah, yeah. Are you rooting for him? Like, do you think, because on the one hand, it could be like,

he wins, and I know a fighter of your caliber, you've been around, you're like, oh, then anyone can think he wins, which we know is not true, but it's a great story, and you want him to stick around because of all those reasons. Like, what do you think you'll be rooting for once you watch the fight on Saturday? I like making, you know, Mityl goes on and just absolutely annihilate him. I mean, bad, like, makes it almost fun. Like, you start laughing. It's so bad. Wait, you're saying Mickey does that to him? Yeah, it doesn't seem as long, and this is why. Okay. I don't feel very good, like there's truth, there's justice in the sport.

And, you know what I mean? Hey, Sam Punk's gonna get paid. Like, you made your money, so there's no, it's not like, we can laugh and point at him. It's like, dude, he's gonna be like, I've never fought before. I don't even have an amateur record. I came in here and took out one of your guys

got two pro fights, like, in the UFC. You know what I mean? So it's just like, his word, this worst case scenario isn't that bad. Like, he isn't gets, we all get entertained because he's like, he's getting pummeled. Some of his fans might be a little sad,

but it's just like, whatever, he carries on maybe, and then he proves he comes back and tries to win the second fight or whatever, but I feel like there'll be a type of justice or like a truth. Now, the fight's questionable, and it's whatever. It's just like, I don't like the controversy. I don't want to see it. I don't want to see it.

I don't want to see it. It's going to look stupid. It's going to look questionable to me. It's going to look dumb. And I'm going to get mad. Why questionable? Why questionable? Because it's not, it's not, you know what I mean?

You asked me if there's many years in the sport, I've seen things. I know things about how we should perform. Okay. This is this person's experience level against this person, and this is what this person's doing it. This is the thing that I'm watching how the person fights. You know, so I don't know.

We'll just see. See, I'm making put more interest into this fight now. Yeah. I'm building this fight up. I know, man. It's amazing. And I want to picture you watching the fight and see, like, if he goes into that, I made the case earlier that there's never been less pressure on a fighter in UFC.

history because yeah he's a big deal and there's a lot of eyeballs but it seems like the expectations are so low for him that even if he goes into the second round that's a victory in its own right you know what I mean yeah whatever he's like I don't care he's like he just gets demolished in 30 seconds I don't care I'm not going to like point and laugh at him because I know that dude's made a ton of money and he still has a bunch of people are going to want to see him fight again if he chooses to it's like it's not even that bad of a thing so I mean even the worst case scenario here isn't that bad okay just there's a lot of the me goes on and gets severely injured or anything.

Like that's, then it's a good day. Like, the only that doesn't happen, because that's what I said, I love seeing Barnett and Erloskey give such a great fight, and they're both in the press conference talking. Yeah, you get them black eyes, like, that heals. Nobody's severely hurt, and that's, that's when this is like a sport.

Yeah. And it's just, for me, it's a tough mental thing, because I have to, it's outside of the cage. Remember the sport is the fans, taking care of people. Remember, we're all in this together. Inside the cage, it's a fight, though. And that was my problem with my last fight. I mentally went in too much of like a sparring match and not a fight.

And that switch I talk about. And if I don't flip it, I have a bad night, as you all witnessed. So mental game, again, it's just a, when I'm just sitting here healing, it's things I have to keep training somewhere, and wear out spiritually and mentally then. And I will make the correct adjustments and come back, and I'm going to get this title one way or another. Wait, sir, are you considering moving camps?

Why? Well, because you said, you know, where else training spiritually and mentally, like, I wasn't sure what you meant by that. I meant that I'm sitting here and I'm not able to physically go training. I still need to keep doing something. Gotcha. Yeah, what don't just sit here and rot? Right, right. What do you do it?

Like, what does your day look like now? Well, I'm starting to walk, so it's good. So I'm going to go to therapy. You want to get up the phone with you, I have an hour drive to therapy because I wanted to work with the bus therapist. so I'm putting an extra effort and work to see that I'm doing it. And I feel like that's, yeah, that's why my progress is coming so good. And we're just really excited because of the way the surgeon went and the doctor just looking how I was performing before what I could be capable of now.

You know, I gave my body 100%. So focusing on that. And then, you know, just my wife, we're always busy with the gym. Yeah. And trying to help her. She helps me. So were you frustrated when you saw that Eric Perez wore his luchador mask and you weren't allowed to wear your your outfit? My wife keeps noticing that because it's like a guy with a mask, a couple different hats.

Yeah, yeah. The whole hat thing. Yeah. You know, I'm not a lot of wear a boxing cloak or anything, but people with the hats, maybe some of them hats like get by the Reebok code. I don't care, who cares or whatever. You can't get mad about stuff like that. okay you'll create cancer quicker in your life or something oh my you don't want that sweating on the nonsense uh well you know i like i like the twitter feed it's been very

entertaining over the last couple months you talking about the ufc sale about brock lesner all kinds of things i like it i was quiet for a little while no it's good it's entertaining stuff i feel like the heavy weights are getting really good you derrick lewis there's some good one's out there. Derek Lewis is, uh, he's coming along, huh? He is coming along. Maybe he could be your next victim when you come back. When do you want to come back?

What time frame? Hopefully, like I said, a time frame that works with the winner of Brune and Brown. I would like to make that fight happen. I mean, if I get the fight room again before he slips to do a title fight, I mean, that would be awesome. I said, it was a great fight. I was really looking forward to it. All right.

So I just fight a fight, you know, keep my place and hopefully if you can just fight the guy it's ranked in front of me. You know, it seems to be the best way to try to get into a title shot. So it's got to hold for the best. Well, I wish you the best, Ben. Thank you for coming on and giving us an update on your situation. And I'm happy to hear that the surgery went well

and that you're on the comeback trail. We miss you out there. And I was really looking forward. I know a lot of people were looking forward to that fight, but no doubt that you will come back better. And maybe a bit of a reset button is just what the doctor ordered. Maybe that's best. Yeah, you know, we'll see.

And I just really appreciate the support, you know, from the MMA community and just as a whole, like, it's just great over the years to see a single girl. And, you know, so I love fighting. So thank you for the time and have a great one. All right. Enjoy UFC 203. There he is. Ben Rothwell stopping by.

Wish him the very best as he attempts to come back from knee surgery. Was supposed to fight this weekend. Unfortunately, that's not happening. But looking forward to his return. in early 2017. Okay, let us take a quick break. In a minute, we are going to be joined in studio. Let's keep this heavyweight theme rolling along

because this Friday in Trenton, New Jersey, the glory heavyweight title will be on the line as champion Rico Verhoeven defended against Anderson Silva. And he is in the house. He is going to join us in studio in a matter of moments. Rico Verhoeven himself, monster of a man, will be right here talking to me about the upcoming fight, the huge fight against Bader Hari coming up,

Overeem, MMA, who knows what we'll talk about? So much to discuss with Rico Verhoeven. So let's take a quick break, reconfigure the studio. While we do that, let's take a look back at May of 2010, right after Overeem came back to the United States, fought in strike force, beat Brett Rogers in St. Louis. He was on this show, and we had a little birthday party for him, one of the most memorable moments in the history of the show.

Overeemann Studio, Alastro Overeemann Studio. He put on the hat, the balloon. Remember that? I thought here we are four days before his first UFC title fight. It would be fun to look back at that. So here it is. Y'all must have forgot. Overemon Studio, May of 2010.

And once that's done, we'll be right here with Rico Verhoeven. Don't go anywhere. Joe, bring it out, do your thing. Here's a surprise. He is the champion. So we brought him a, we brought him a balloon. Alster, we brought you this. Hey!

Because you are the king. I brought you one of these. For your birthday, this is for you? You have to wear it, because I bought it for you, Alster. You gotta put it on, I'll be offended if you don't. You can let it go, let it go in the sky, it's okay. There it is. It's his birthday.

How old? 30 years old? 30 years. Good by 20 and hello 40. And look at this, the champ. For you. Oh shit. There he is.

You have to put it around your neck. Yeah, but with the headphones a little bit. Put the headphones down and then put this. I mean, there we go. What's my hair? Damn it. There you go. The champion, Alistair, Overim.

Oh, yeah, yeah. I have one other thing for you, Alistair. Yeah, you can put them under like that. Yeah, that's how the cool people wear it. Here, here, here. For you, Alaster. One second. Because it's your birthday.

30 years old. I'm sure you're a little homesick because you're away from your family. Right? Yeah. You know this? Hey, that's Dutch. Dutch?

Hey! Apple's birthday. What are they saying? This is great. This is great. This is really, this is really Dutch. This is really Dutch. This is really Dutch.

Yeah, this is nuts. Incredible. So did that make you feel good? That actually does. That helped you. In your birthday, I know you're a little homesick, right? They'll probably start in a couple days. Yeah.

I like, you know, I like it in New York. That's a good vibe. Yeah, yeah. But I miss, of course, obviously, my family right. My brother was with the fight. You can take it up. Let's do this a little bit different. Yeah.

It's hard to take it. take you seriously. The king. Let's get back to the phone lines before we go here and I, all the tears come down my face from laughing. Carrie in Chicago joining the birthday boy, Alastair Overim on the M.M.A. Hour. What's up, Carrie? Hi, happy birthday, Alistair.

Thanks, man. Thanks. All right, this is, this is Carrie's caller from Chicago. A little disappointed that you beat our hometown Kid and Writ Rogers, but I'm also a big stand of yours. It was great to see. See you come over to the States and fight. Many casual fans hadn't seen you fight live before. Yeah.

All right. What's the question? I want to ask you about, what were your thoughts about the late Dutch phenom? Gently Vretti? Vredi. You have any thoughts about him? Who is that? Who?

Genti Vredi. Jani. He was a young Dutch finam kickboxer. Surnum kickboxing. Oh, Jinti Vreder. Okay, yeah, yeah. What do you think he would have fared as an M&A fighter? Well, he was a kickboxing.

Right. And I believe a really talented one. I never met him, actually. But I'm sure I would meet him eventually because, you know, Holland is small. Everybody basically knows each other. But I didn't, I had to meet him. I knew it was a big stir when he died. Unexpectedly.

See you. You don't have to hold out to the balloon. Listen, I like this. Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. Okay, so, so, yeah, back to the topic. Right. Yeah, so it was a very unexpected, unfortunate when he died.

He died of a heart attack. There was something, he had some heart anomaly or something. But he was really talented. He became world champion in Las Vegas, I believe, 2008 or something, 2007, 2008. Yeah, he was 21 and 1. At 20 knockouts, he beat Shane Der Rosario in the kickboxing match. I saw him fight once, and I was actually impressed. And, you know, when I hear that people speak about him, everybody was positive.

He really, apparently really was a nice guy, you know, good-hearted than that guy. All right, my friend. Thank you very much for the call. I know there are some other people waiting to talk to you, Alster. But unfortunately, no more time on the show. What? No more time. God damn it.

That's it. But if you want to take this, you can take it. Tell your friends. back home that we treat you well in America. Laine, they're behandling me good. Wow. Give me a prediction.

Netherlands World Cup, are they going to win? Finally, they've never won the cup. We're going to beat America, though. Easy. Don't say that here. You know that, they're orange. I know, I saw it. I like that you're representing.

You know what the good thing is? When I watch, look at our soccer game, my fighting game is a little bit similar, you know? They put a lot of pressure. They're attacking left and right. They're straight and, well, I hope I have a better defense. Oh, really? They hardly ever win on penalties, you know?

I hardly went on decision. That's true. They always try to go for the knockout. You know Marco Van Bastian? Not personally. But you know of him. Yeah, of course. Yeah.

He's a big deal, right? I thought it was just me then. Well, he's a coach. Right, but he used to be a player, right? Yeah, yeah. See, I know my stuff. You know some stuff. But I'm Canadian.

You like Canadians? Yeah. They're good people. Cool. All right. You're French? Canadian? Yes, yeah.

It's not French. Yes. Yes. Yes. Nice. Thank you very much, my friend. The champion, Alastair Overeem, joining us on the MMA hour here in New York City. An amazing performance against Brett Rogers, and hopefully we'll get to see him against Fior.

I'm trying to be serious. I'm trying not to laugh. But I love that you're embracing this, Alasdor. It's very nice. First man, you have to have fun in your life. Yes. And my life wasn't that? Well, it was fun the last 11 weeks.

I shouldn't be too dramatic about it. But I worked hard. You know, now it's a relaxed time. We're going to do that. We're going to take, enjoy it. Check him out. He'll be back defending that belt for a strike force very soon. Thanks to Spencer Pratt.

Thanks to King Casey. Thanks to Alastair Overeem. Thanks for having me and follow me on www. Doreen.com. Peace. What a fun time. That was with Alster Overeem around over six years ago. And of course he fights for the belt on Saturday.

But how about this? In studio right now, one of the baddest men, if not the baddest man on the plan. at Rico Verhoeven, the glory heavyweight champion of the world. Yes, sir. How are you, my man? I'm good. What an honor this is, in studio.

Yeah, thanks for having me. All the way from Holland. Yes, sir. Where exactly in Holland are you from again? Yeah, you probably won't know. No, I won't. Close to Rotterdam. Rotterdam, okay.

Did you go to the UFC when they were in Rotterdam? Yeah, definitely. I was there for Fox to win a couple of charities. Oh, really? Yeah. Did you enjoy it? Yeah, definitely. It was fun.

Was it weird, though, because you and Overim have this little beef together that he wins, and everyone's showering him with love, what was it like for you to see him? No. Because the beef, I don't really feel the beef. For me, there's not, maybe for him, but for me, there's nothing. Kind of interesting, though, that you're fighting on the same weekend that he's fighting for the heavyweight title.

Yeah. Weird, right? Yeah, it is what it is, you know. Yeah, and I have been the champion already for a few years now, so. Are you rooting for him? No, I don't really have a favorite in this fight. So it's going to be a good fight. I don't really have a favorite, but let's see what happens.

You know, it's just a heavyweight game. It can go either way. I think it's 50-50. Okay, so we have a lot to talk to you about because the reason why you're here is because you're fighting on Friday in Trenton, New Jersey. Exotic Trenton. So beautiful over there. Wow.

I was shocked to hear that Glory was going to Trenton, New Jersey. You're fighting a guy named Anderson Silva. Yes. M.M.A. fans might think Anderson Silva. The spider. This is Braddock Silva. This is a long time kickboxing veteran.

But what's interesting about this, you're defending your title. This is a title fight. Yes, sir. But around the same time that they announced this fight, they also announced one of the most anticipated fights in kickboxing history, you versus Badrari. But you have to fight this one first. That fight's happening regardless. But how do you feel about this one being announced so close to that one?

You have to get through it. It's kind of strange, no? Yeah, but for me, it is what it is. you know it's uh of course i had to defend my title because the the fight versus bother is no title fight right because uh yeah he didn't want to go five rounds oh interesting so uh he said yeah well i fought for uh for three rounds my whole life so why would i fight for five rounds for the title or whatever you know what whatever excuse he had for the belt he didn't want to fight for the belt i think he would have won a fight for the belt but he didn't want to go five rounds that's bizarre

are because you know in five rounds he's without a doubt he's going to lose but in five rounds it's going to be even harder for him because you've gone the distance you have great cardio so many times yeah it's five rounds is easy for me do you feel like that's almost a victory in its own right like that's the first victory of many of course yeah of course I'm already in his head he's like oh I don't want five rounds let's go three okay let's do three for me it's all good and glory was willing to give him a title fight I think so yeah wow but you know for me that fight is still far away way first we're going to handle some business this weekend yeah anderson silver but people ask you about that fight that's the fight you know that's the one that's been talked about for years

yeah is it annoying that that keeps coming up when you have another fight to get through first yeah of course of course because people already look past annison yeah and i definitely do so you know that's that's the difference people say oh bother this butter that hey i got a a good task ahead of me this weekend so do you kind of wish that they announced the butterhari fight after this one No, it doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. No. And by the way, I got some news.

I don't know if you know this. The fight is actually taking place December 10th. We knew that. Yeah. But it's taking place in Oberhausen, Germany. Okay. Did you know that? What do you think?

You're thinking, you brought me the news. This is exclusive. Well, at least to the world. Yeah, to the world. Why Germany? I don't really know, but I think they put it close to Holland. Of course, the Holland fans, the key boxing fans, they're crazy about it. So, and if it was going to be too far away,

not a lot of Hala fans could come to it and I think that's one of the reasons they put it in Oberhaus and it's a great venue as well okay so yeah I think those are the two main reasons they put it over there why not do it in Holland um is there still some issues there

politically yeah yeah politically there's what the hell's going on you can have MMA there but you can't have kickboxing no no no we can do kickboxing but they just didn't want the bother fight to to happen in Holland because of the Controversial, yeah. Ah. So, yeah, but it is what it is.

So they put it close to Holland and, yeah, still all the festival. How do you feel about Bada Hari? He's a very controversial guy, polarizing guy, right? I mean, he's had a troubled pass as of late. Yeah. Very fun fighter, very popular fighter, but still, you know, he's been involved in some stuff. How do you feel about him? He's a great athlete, and that's all I care about.

Okay. For me, whatever he does outside of the ring is not a much. my business and I just do what I do best and that's perform well and make sure I'm a I'm a great role model for everybody outside the ring as well and that's for everybody different so when he was like truly in his prime coming up you it was a little earlier in your career yeah did you look up to him and say okay this is the fight for me like this is what I want to strive for this is the big one no not really no no you didn't dream of fighting him oh yeah of course the fight versus butter it's always been a dream or whatever great fighter who was the best but i didn't want to be

like him or something like that you know just uh i'm like a totally different person different fighting style and just yeah different people did you recently resign with glory yeah so you you are now exclusive to glory yes sir because the last time we had you on we were kind of talking about options future things of that yeah you signed a deal was the butterhari fight part of that deal like Did they almost use that fight as a way to keep you around? No, we just discussed things. And of course, the Bada Harri fight was, even when I talked to you earlier in the show, it was already being discussed. Okay.

You could have broke it on our show. Come on, man. So, yeah, but I couldn't tell you anything. Of course, I understand. So, but for then, you know, we just went back and forth, you know, discussing stuff. And then he said, let's do the Bother fight. and yeah let's add another year so that's what we did okay so it's one more year yes sir so it's not fights it's just a year it's not like oh you know we're now signing for six fights four fights five

fights no no it is like uh definitely going to be two fights okay and then like maybe a third fight added now where does mhm a fit in all that because you expressed interest in fighting in mhm can you still do m m mm or are you exclusive to them you can't do anything else no no definitely can do MMA. Oh. But yeah, the schedule is already so busy, so packed.

So you're putting it on pause, the MMA. Yeah, yeah. So I try when I have time, I try to train it, but especially now with this, there's no point.

Upcoming six months, you know, it's definitely no point of doing it. But of course, 2017 is coming up and let's see what that brings. As you continue to progress in your kickboxing career

and, you know, you're establishing yourself as the best heavy weight in the world, do you feel like there's a chance you may never do MMA because if you're in demand and you're the man, you're the heavyweight champ, they're not going to want you to go to MMA and do other stuff, right? Yeah, maybe not, but I try to keep myself excited and I just like doing new stuff.

Okay. Doing new things. And in the end, it doesn't always have to be like being the man. Sometimes you're just having fun in your life as well. And I like MMA and it is fun and it is a new advantage. adventure and it's a new road for me. So in December, when I beat Butter, yeah, maybe it's time for me to clear out the other heavyweight division.

Oh, wow. When you were kind of a free agent, did Bellator come after you? Because I thought that they would make a very strong play to get you because they have the MMA in kickboxing. And, you know, they're starting the kickboxing organization. Like I felt like you were just a perfect fit for them. Did they try to come and sign you? Yeah, they did.

Well, while we were talking about it, it was, I was still with the glory contract. Okay. So I wasn't allowed to discuss that stuff, but they did an offer for the MMA. Ah. But it was okay, but it was nothing on paper yet. So we were just discussing, yeah, the different things, the Bellator, the kickboxing, the Bada Horry fight. So, and that was more interesting at that point.

Have you watched their kickboxing shows? No, no. Nothing. No. Interesting. Why? Just too busy, man. Too busy.

I've seen their kickbox. I'm doing a lot of stuff. Why are you so busy? You don't have a couple hours just to watch kickboxing? What's wrong with you? I just follow the heavyweight. And they don't have any big heavy weights, if any, right? No, I haven't seen.

It's not, I haven't been impressed. No. If I'm being honest, it feels lower level than their MMA. You know, it doesn't, when I watch Glory, I feel like I'm watching the best of the best. And I know that they're younger and they're new. They just started. But it doesn't feel like high level kickboxing. You get what I'm saying?

Yeah. And I felt like there was a point in glory And correct me if you feel otherwise Glory was trying to do too much gimmick stuff here And they're like just they didn't know who they were And now I feel like there's more of a vision Like they're they're back to putting on the best of the best Like being do you know what I mean?

Yeah Was there a point where you were worried That they were kind of going a little too crazy? Yeah, I think so too. So but you know we tried to discuss with glory as well to Because we have so much so much experience in the kickboxing game And of course like glory was like like a new organization coming into the game.

And yeah, they also needed some experience. And of course, sometimes you fall before you walk, you know, over before you run. So, and I think that's what they did. They fell a couple of times. They stood up and I think now they're running. Yeah. Now they're doing good things and doing big stuff.

So they put down the biggest fight in kickboxing history. So it's going the right way. You know, sometimes when I watch them in Europe, it feels like a big deal. Of course, kickboxing, I think is a little more popular, maybe a lot more popular than here in the United States. And then they come to places like Trent and New Jersey, no disrespect. But I wonder, like, you fighting, you should be fighting, you know, in Germany or, you know, somewhere in Europe, Croatia. I don't know. I know you can't fight in Holland.

Yeah, I can't fight in Holland. Oh, because of Bader Harrier. That's right. Okay, so why aren't you fighting in Holland? Like, why the heck are you fighting in Trenton, New Jersey? I can't wrap my head around this. I don't know You just go where they tell you

Yeah When they offer me to fight They say okay Where is it Yeah it's gonna be there Okay let's do it Who's the opponent And you know

I don't really think too much About all the side stuff I just think about business And that's fighting So for me You know The thing is now Just making sure I focus on business

And that's Anderson Braddock Silva Up next And that's most important So even if it's If it's going to be in my gym or it's going to be in Trent, New Jersey, it's going to be in Amsterdam, I don't care. You don't care? No. It's just, the most important thing is just making sure I perform and keep winning fights.

You were first introduced to martial arts when you were seven? Six. Six. Your father had a karate background, correct? Sure. So did you first go into karate? No, no, no, no. So he just came back from an injury.

So he had a crazy leg injury from low kicks. So he was doing karate. He was in a first. fight getting low kick, low kick, low kick, but the referees back in the days, you know, it was totally different. Okay. And his leg was like really swollen. The whole muscle was swollen up.

And he got to the finals, you just already came in hopping like this. Oh, wow. He got the kick and just the muscle, yeah, exploded. The skin opened up, lost blood, everything. What? Yeah. If you look at his leg now, it looks like he got attacked by a shark. It's crazy.

like a scar like this thick it's how old was he um i don't know i think mid 30s wow so that was crazy so we had had to recover like for over a year okay so we started doing some fitness because he couldn't train his legs but you know upper body sure started some boxing and after a year started kickboxing and then shortly after that people started asking hey why don't you teach and he was like yeah why not so that's when he started teaching and right from that moment he took me to the gym So was he just teaching at a school or did he open his own school? No, yeah, it was just he rented out a small, small place. So prior to that, you never did anything.

Even though he was involved in karate and all that, you never. No, no, no. So the way he teaches, he was teaching kickboxing was with the influences of Kukeshin Karate. So with the kicks, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It wasn't like straight up kickboxing with the straight kicks. Sure. It was just a little bit different.

Did you like it right away? Yeah. When you're so small, it's just for the fun. For fun, right. But my dad really put the stamp on it that I had to train like two or two, three times a week. Oh, wow. So, of course, when you're young, you have the interest in different sports. Sure.

I wanted to do some soccer. Right. And wanted to do some basketball. So I was allowed to do that, but everything on the side next to kickboxing. Okay. So I had to train like Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays. Wow. Because I feel like you'd be good at basketball because of your height.

Yeah, but it was, no. No? It wasn't really my thing. And was your mom okay with this? Was she around? Yeah, yeah, yeah. She was okay with you? Yeah, they were apart since they separated when I was a baby.

Okay, but she was okay with her son training so much and combat sports. When did you kind of have the idea that you can actually make a living doing this? Like when do you go from just having fun to saying, oh, I could do this for my career? Well, when I was around the age of nine, yeah, I believe I saw Peter Arts become champion for. for the second time. And yeah, that was, that was crazy. Just the view on the television video, people going crazy and getting that big belt,

that big check. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was like the moment when my dream rose, you know, it just came up and was like, this is what I want, man. This looks crazy. And you're nine? Yeah, when I was around nine, yeah.

Okay. So I was already doing some magic. as then but it was really difficult for me because we had to drive like crazy long distances before I could be to get a fight because I was for example when I did my first demonstration fight I was seven and I was finding somebody who was 10 because of my height and weight wow so ever since I was around seven eight nine to 16 was so difficult so when I was around 13 14 my dad said well we're stopping this because it's it's crazy we had to drive like for three, four hours to get for one fight and then all the way back.

Yeah. Doesn't make no sense. So wait till you're 16. You come into heavyweight division, adults. And then you're fighting adults at 16? Yeah. So my first, I was 16 for two weeks and I was fighting somebody who was 28. What?

And I knocked him out in the second round. Really? Yes, sir. That's your pro fight. That's a pro fight, right? No, yeah. Yeah. It wasn't an amateur fight, but.

Right. Just with no protection, everything. So that was, yeah, that was serious. Because when you were 16, you're just a kid. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 28. Were you freaking out? Yeah.

Were you freaking out? Yeah, because I was in the ring. You're not even 28 now. No. You're 27, right? Yeah. That's insane. So what I remember is like two weeks or three weeks before the fight, the guy was 23.

The one week before the fight, the guy was 25. Jeez. And I was in the ring. and in the blue corner he's 28 so I look at my dad like this guy's 20 no worries it's all good so I was like okay let's do it oh my gosh so yeah that was that was crazy because this this man couldn't have children in the in the yeah of course in the audience so that's yeah that was really strange but I knocked them out in the in the second round and I was 16 years 100 kilos and

Yeah, that was great. So that went through the kickboxing community in Holland. That was a big deal. Yeah. How much should you get paid for that? Nothing. Nothing? Nothing.

It was... Not a cent? Nothing. When did you start getting paid? So we started, yeah, like amateur class. Then you go to C class, B class. And when you get a little bit, like 100 bucks, 150. And then you get to A class.

And that's when the moment when you get like really professional and get paid. Big bucks. No, well, you started around a thousand. Sort of big bucks. How old are you when you get to the A class? How long does it take? I was around, so I started around when I was 16. I started from scratch again.

And I think I was around 18. Okay. 19. So not that. Because in the heavyweight division, it's still difficult to get opponents. Sure. So when I had learned 10 to 15 fights, I started to go to A class.

Now, what are your first? friends doing when you're 16, 17, 17, you're fighting these, you know, 28-year-olds. You're, you're competing in there. And I'm assuming you have friends who are just like normal kids, right? Like, they're not doing this sort of thing. Are you, like, are you in contact with them? Do they think that you're a weird guy that you're doing? Like, what are they saying about your, your career choice? Well, the thing was that I was, like, like I said, the dream started when I was around nine. So what I did, I took it really serious. So, between the age of 13 to 16 it was I was really having difficulties focusing on kickboxing because

I was training because my father was pushing me to train but I had no fights so like for two three years I had no fights just training and like in summertime all my friends would go to the to the pool and the pool was across the gym my father was running oh no and the the pool closed around eight and the training stopped around 8.30 so they all came in to watch the training all with the white I had from swimming yeah I was like damn I missed out again yeah so that was the time it was difficult but when I was yeah almost turning 16 that was when I get the focus okay and even when I was on high school just bringing the special food to school and stuff like that focus on training and And people were like, this guy's crazy.

What was he bringing boiled eggs for? Yeah, yeah. Especially yogurt and stuff like that. And I was, the teachers were going totally crazy because I was constantly eating. Oh, really? Even in class. Yeah. Rico stopped eating.

They even sent me to the. Really? Yeah, they sent me out. Because you felt like you always had to eat, you know, every couple hours. Yeah. So, so I took it really serious. And especially back then, you know, the older guys that was trained. with said hey ricka what you're going to be when you grow up said yeah i want to be a champion and

you know how it goes sure sure sure kid yeah yeah yeah but you come back in a few years right yeah what did you become yeah an accountant or whatever sure of course so um so yeah that's that's what happened and now those same people said oh remember when he was 60 oh shit you did it you're amazing that was crazy so yeah i definitely had that focus from very young and I yeah put a lot of things to the side wow and so like going out drinking and partying and stuff like that and yeah I definitely throughout the years I probably lost and heard a lot of people but yeah that was the sacrifice I had to make that's tougher for a young kid because especially when you're not fighting there's no payoff to all this training and the time that you're

taking the sacrifices right so that has to be tough on you Yeah, but then the sacrifice was like half, but the sacrifices came when I was around 18 to now. There was a serious sacrifice. Sure. Serious fights were coming up. Yeah. And I just had a dream. And I knew I had to follow my heart.

And, you know, you just had to focus on what needs to be done. And if you want something, that's just my vision. If you want something in life, you got to work hard. Sure. So on whatever level you are, like, I never get. get comfortable, never. So even now, I'm champion. I'm already champion for about three years, and I'm still not comfortable. Do you think you'll ever get comfortable? No. No. Now, what does that mean not comfortable? Like, you don't rest on, oh, I'm the champ, I'm not going to train. Is that what

you mean? Yeah. Yeah. So I always want to push to that next level. And yeah, like my trainer says, you know, what Rico is performing now is around 60 to 70% in the ring. Do you believe that? Yeah. Wow. Because I feel what I do in training even goes easier than it is when I'm fighting, a real fight. Right. So every time I fight, it gets better. It gets easier. And the things that are working during training are working in the ring and in the fight as well.

So I just keep evolving and keep getting better. Do you still keep in contact with your dad? Yes, definitely. So does he go to your fights? Not always. Okay. Will he be at this one? No.

Will he be at the Badahari fight? Yeah. Yeah. Why won't he be at the fight on Friday, Trenton? Does he want to go to Trenton? No. No, it's not really sensitive, but yeah, he's sick. Oh, I'm sorry.

No problem. Yeah, he got, what's it called in English? Dimension? Dementia. Yeah. Oh, wow. From getting punched? No.

Okay. I don't know. Just overall health, okay. Yeah. How is he doing? Yeah, he's doing. I think he's hanging up pretty well. Okay.

You know, because the doctor say you can, some people come in and a year later they don't have anything anymore. They're just, you know, all out. And he's now, has been having it for like four to five years. Wow. So, yeah, I think. Yeah, all the best to him. Does he talk to you about your fights beforehand? Oh, I think, like, is he involved like that?

Always. Yeah, yeah. Always. So, you always, you got to try this. Right, right, right. Maybe you should try, maybe you should try a spinning kick. Right. So we always want to do, let me do the karate stuff, you know?

Of course. Yeah. Do you still live where you grew up? Yeah. Wow. So do you feel like, like all eyes are on you? Like, you can tell now that you're a bigger star, right? Yeah, definitely.

Do you get more attention, like more press, more media now as your career? continues to grow and progress and you keep winning do you feel like you're like will this fight be covered in the newspaper on the news there you're not quite definitely it will yeah it's it's a big deal yeah it's definitely big deal so let me see last year in december i came back to holland um for the first time for for for a fight in five years wow yes i remember that yeah so i came back as champion and i won in the first round by a ko yeah so they just That must have been amazing. Yeah, that was crazy.

Yeah, that was crazy. So everybody, from that moment on, it was back, we were back on track in Holland as well. Okay. So like, for those five years, just nothing, no kickboxing at all. And this was the first big show. And we had, like, the minister of sports was there. The mayor of Amsterdam was there. And they just went crazy.

They were like, oh, this is amazing. And you're real athletes. and you guys are doing what you're supposed to be doing and this is this is amazing we're going to support this so yeah with them saying stuff like that and yeah being in the media television television shows but all different different stuff as well so just funny television shows

so they don't they don't just see the fighting because for normal people that see fighting they're like these guys are crazy you know what are you guys doing in the ring and then they only see like the fighting machine they only see the monster and when they see me in a television show like for example we have this uh dutch television show boys versus girls and then we do like funny stuff and then people see the other side behind the monster behind the fighter and that just works that's important yeah then they they feel like they can approach you again right because when they just see the fighter because that that's what bothered it he made that

the monster out inside the ring as well as the monster outside the ring. He wasn't approachable because people are like, oh shit, when we approach this guy, he's going to knock your head off. Right, right. I think that's what I did. I made kickboxers approachable again. Was that a conscious decision on your part? Yeah, definitely. But I'm not just not because of him, but just for kickboxing in total.

I just want to elevate it to the next level. And I think that's what I did. You know, I'm working with crazy sponsors and... Who are some of your sponsors? For example, I'm working with Tagoyer, Land Rover, so... Wow. I saw you got a new Jaguar. Yeah.

Yeah. So, yeah, I just mixing it up with that. Life is good. Life has been treating me very well. Did you ever think that you'd be able to get this kind of success, this kind of, you know, these kinds of riches as a kickboxer or have you surpassed what you dreamed of? No, definitely not. You know, I had that dream.

and one way or the other, that dream was going to come true. So either it's going to be left, right, up, down, I don't care. I just try everything. And, yeah, I'm busy with some big stuff as well. What do you got? Yeah. Don't hold back. Sponsors, movies, modeling?

Yeah. I feel you could do some, have you done modeling? Small things. You want to do more? Yeah. We have Fashion Week coming up in New York next week. You know that? It's a big deal.

Yeah. Who knows? Luke Rockholds here doing some modeling. He went on my show Tom Ford. Yeah, but you look at his body and look at my body. They have to no jeans for me. Oh, okay. I understand.

I don't have the model body, but who knows? Yeah, it's all good. You know, I've been just doing a lot of things next to kickboxing as well. You know, just expanding the business and doing things that fighters, kickboxers haven't done yet. So I have to keep it on the low. But, you know, in a few months, going to come out and you go oh that was yeah yeah yeah before the butterhary fight yeah yeah yeah so so yeah it's been going very well so but now like I said you know focusing on the

on the on the innocent bedrock bedrock fight and preparation has been going well been feeling really been feeling really good and just yeah keep getting better this fight is going to air here in the united states on ESPN too yes sir I don't know if you know that it's a big deal live yeah first time First thing? As far as live is concerned. And the undercard is on UFC Fight Pass, which is very cool. In the Netherlands, does it air live as well? No, because we have, yeah.

The time difference. Yeah, like. Sucky. Yeah, so when does it air? The next day. It does, okay. The next day on Spike TV, Holland. Oh, interesting.

Yeah, so it's going to be air around 10 p.m. in the evening. Okay. So that's good. You know, the right-of-way broadcast. the next day. So because we have a, like now, like I said, you know, so many people follow the fighting game. And it's just, it's just growing. And the television is seeing that it's growing, just like big televisions,

broadcasts, we want to, like, for example, the Botahari fight. And that just shows that we're growing, we're going up. Is he going to go to the fight on Friday, Butterhari? No. No. I don't think he can come. No. No. He can't come in the country.

Wow. What a guy this, Butterhary. What a character. It's amazing. Are you friends with The Rock? You're a fan of his. I'm a fan. I see you tweeting him back and forth, Kevin Hart. Yeah, we're Twitter friends. Twitter friends. But you've never actually met. No, not yet. You're a big fan of his, though.

Definitely. You know, it's like, yeah, like I said multiple times on Twitter and on social media, you know, it's the Rock and Kevin Hart are like my two. favorite personal uh Hollywood personalities because um they do the same thing

as I do they don't get comfortable so they're on the highest level of success that's possible and they work their asses off and that's what I do

the same in my game so and that just shows it doesn't matter how successful you are you got to be keep working your ass off and that's what they do so that's why I follow them

yeah You love those guys. Yeah. It's such an inspiration, such a motivation to keep working hard. And it just shows, yeah, it doesn't matter how successful you are. Just keep doing what you do. The rock at the gym is just, I mean, it almost makes me feel bad as a human being looking at him on Instagram and stuff.

It's like 4 a.m. And he's talking about working on. He's all sweat. I mean, come on. Who can do that? Yeah, that's work. That is work. That's work.

You do that too? You wake up that early? Not that early, but like, for example, we arrived. I was here in Trenton around 10 p.m. in the evening, 10 p.m. 11 p.m. We just jumped out the car, got in the gym, just started working out. Crazy. You need that motivation. Yeah, that's what needs to be done.

You know, it's, like I said, you know, I'm never comfortable. So I need to, and that's why sometimes in our sport, my trainer needs to pull me back. Oh, because sometimes. Yeah, I go too hard. What happened here? Yeah, training knows. Yeah. When did that happen?

Last Tuesday, Tuesday. Is that a problem? No. You won't reopen? No, definitely not. No stitches, right? No. No, okay.

Really small scratch. But yeah, it happens. Yeah. So, because the closer we get to the fight, the harder to sparring gear. Yeah, yeah. It's almost like a fight with protection. How many rounds do you spar? Full-on sparring before your fight?

10, 12. 10-12, okay. Eddie Alvarez. You know Eddie Alvarez? he's the UFC Lightway Champion. He said that he sparred 150 rounds before his title fight. Do you believe that?

That's possible if you add like a 12 week. But you said you sparred 12 rounds. Yeah. That's a big discrepancy. When did you find out about the Anderson fight? Not that long ago, right? No, I think about four to six weeks. Yeah, why was it so short?

I don't know. You know, it was short announced, but I was already training. You're already training. I'm always training. So even though if I don't have a fight, it doesn't matter for me. I'm always training, always working out, always keeping my body fit, keep my mind on a good path. Are you still in contact with your mother?

Yeah. What does she say about your career? Yeah, she likes it. Is she a fan? Does she watch? Yeah. Does she go to the fights? No, most of the time not.

She's stressed out, but she. And you have two girls. Yeah, two girls. Beautiful girls. Yes, sir. What are their ages? The oldest one is five and the smallest. one is one and a half.

Amazing. Yeah. So they... Do they... They don't really understand what you're doing right now, right? No, the oldest one understand.

A little bit, yeah. Yeah. So... Do you let her watch? Yeah, if I know the end result. The result. Okay, not live.

No. No. No, no, no, no. So, yeah, she knows. Oh, daddy's gotta go. Daddy's world champion. He's got to go. Like to?

Yeah. The belts? Yeah, she loves the belts. And a school, she said, my daddy is the strongest daddy of the world. Oh, wow. Stuff like that. What is it like when you go to her school?

You see all the parents? Yeah, people know me, so they did just leave me beat. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe a little intimidated. Yeah, maybe. And what about you? And you're married, right? Or you're not married?

No, no, no. Okay. Not yet. So actually what I'm waiting for is the girls get a little bit bigger and... Oh, you want them to understand. Yeah. Oh, that's interesting. How come?

Yeah, you know, it's just the family, my family is my motivation to work hard and to provide for the, them and yeah i just so if something special like this you want them to be a part of it yeah they oh that's interesting to be a part of it so i think that's important and so yeah my girl just has to wait okay she wants to do it sooner yeah she just yeah she just am i opening up a can of worms here you know that too america a buprah you're like ariel can you shut the hell up stop please yeah she's watching yeah There she probably thinks, keep asking.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Keep more. So why don't you ask in the ring, after the fight on Friday, in front of the world? No, no, that's too private. Yeah, but it's also a thing that's done already too. Fair enough. Is she coming to the fight? Yeah.

Okay. So she comes in Thursday. Okay. Because, yeah, we have a, we opened up our own gym. Oh. In Holland? Yeah. Oh, wow.

So, like, like, like two months. minutes from the house. Okay. So it's really close. And yeah, she teaches. She does everything. So my name is on the outside and that's it. So she just,

so she actually teaches kickboxing? Yeah. Wow. Has she ever fought? Yeah. Professionally. Yeah. Wow.

So she also came from karate. Okay. Like the same karate, my father, Kukeshin karate. Yeah, she's like Dutch national champion, Belgium. She went to the world championship, so she can fight. So when we got together, she started doing some kickboxing. And she did a few fights. Yeah, beat up everybody.

And then, yeah, then we got kids. And she just... Now, does she tell you like, oh, you should have done this or that in your fight? And does that get annoying? Yeah. No, definitely not. Because she understands the game. She understands.

Okay. Sometimes, you know, when you date a girl and you're a fighter, she's just there to watch and that's it. She's not giving you pointers. So I don't know if you would have liked that sort of thing. You like that she gives you pointers. Yeah. Yeah, because the crazy thing is,

nine out of ten times she tells me stuff to do and I don't do it and maybe a few days later or a week later my trainer Dennis tells me to do it and then she said oh now you're doing it yeah yeah he tells you you you do it when I tell you that should listen to her yeah yeah I should has she ever cornered you no no no no no no no that she doesn't do but from the side it doesn't matter how many people there how many people's I always hear you can hear wow that's amazing Look, keep your hands up. But she, so when we, for example, look at a fight or a fighter, I say, I think maybe we should do this. Maybe you should do that or, hey, this wasn't good in that fight.

And then, you know, I talked with Dennis and he says the same thing. That's crazy. That's amazing. Yeah. What if your daughter says to you, I want to be a fighter? My mom was a fighter. My dad was a fighter. How would you feel about that?

It probably hurts. Yeah. But if she, I would never stop her. She just has to do what she loves to do and have fun. I think that's the most important thing. You got to teach your kids in life. You know, they got to have fun. Like the first, like I said, when I was growing up, there was a point I was not having fun.

We did kickboxing because my dad was pushing me so much. And now I think that push gave me the right mindset for what I'm doing now. So keep working hard, navigate comfortable. but it wasn't fun back then so the thing i'm trying to teach my daughters is even though they're young like do what you love to do but when you do it do it yeah 100% go all in and don't do it like 10 10% this 20% that you know you can do everything you can only focus on one thing at a time do you kind of wish that you that that that japanese combat sports was bigger like like you can have one of those big New Year's shows and the stadiums, 50,000, like,

it was like 10, 15 years ago. Do you miss, like, do you feel like, man, I wish I was fighting in that era? Yeah, definitely. What a bummer. Yeah, there was, that was crazy. There was everything. They were like small. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Action figures, everything. Incredible, how big it was. Yeah, it was huge. Do you think it'll ever get back to that? Yeah, I think so, but not in my era. Not in your era? No. Does that bum you out?

Does that depress you? No, because. Because I feel like I'm the one bringing that era back. Okay. So, yeah, I think I'm going to bring kickboxing to a whole new level. And maybe it's, you know, we're getting even to a bigger level than it has ever been before. It's amazing. What a weekend for Dutch combat sports.

By the end of this weekend, you can be the reigning, defending, glory heavyweight champion. And Alastrow Ream, the UFC heavyweight champion. So the two baddest men in the world, both from the same country? Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah, that's crazy. And then you fight to find out who's the baddest man. Let's do it.

But in kickboxing or an MMA, or both. Or both. Yeah, that's. You do like a series, one kickboxing, one MMA. Yeah, and if it's one one one. Let's maybe do something special. You know, one round, kickboxing, second round. Wow.

This. Holy crap. Like the pride days. You just blew my mind. Let's do it. Is there any chance of this? Probably not. No, probably not.

Maybe we should start an organization yourself. Could you imagine one round kickboxing, one round MMA, and the third round may be boxing, or is that too boring? Yeah, maybe. Have you dabbled in boxing? Yeah. Yeah, maybe we should start with boxing then. And then keep going up.

Yeah. So boxing, kickboxing. And then MMA. Wow. Holy moly, that is a great idea. But in the Pride Days in Japan, they did it. They started off with, for example, boxing, and then second round, MMAS. Crazy.

And then chess. Have you seen the chess boxing? That's the fourth round. How's your chess? It's pretty good. It's pretty good? Alster probably sucks at chess. Yeah.

I'm definitely going to beat him in that. Wow. I don't know why, but I have this fascination with watching you versus Alster. I want to see that. Let's see. You remember when he won the K-1 round pre? Were you impressed? Not really.

Why? See, that's what I'm talking about. There's something there. No, it's just, he's not. not a real K-boxer. He's not. So how do he win? Yeah, like, semi-shild wasn't in there, so that was a good thing for him. And, yeah, how did he win?

You know, it's, it's, yeah, I don't have to say luck because, but in the tournament, you just got to, sometimes you just run through smooth. Sure. And that, that's what he did. But he performed well, but like, for example, in the second round, Peter R's got semi-Shilt and there was one hell of a fight. So, and then Ellison just ran through, sorry. He kicked his arms twice. Saki was out. And then he was in the final.

And then, yeah, Peter Hatch was already finished. Would you like to see Glory do some, you know, like a Grand Prix type of thing every year like that, a tournament? Do you want to see that sort of thing or do you think it's not necessary? Well, I think what they're doing now is... I know you won the one-night tournament like a couple of years ago. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, outside of Chicago. Yeah.

I think that was the Spike TV debut, if I recall correctly. That's possible, yeah. But would you like to see like a Grand Prix type of thing? Yeah, it's possible, but I like the thing they're doing now. So they're having a tournament, for example, number two, three, four, and five, having one tournament to fight the champion. So I think that's a good system that they're using. There's a featherweight tournament this Friday.

Yeah. Simon Marcus, who's Canadian like me. Yeah. Also fighting. So you're already picking a favor of the first? Well, you know, this is my country. Yeah. So you got to support.

Simon Marcus. guy. I was sad that Bazooka Joe had to retire. Yeah, that's too bad. He was a good fighter. He had the right looks, so he was definitely one of the guys that could put Canada on the map. Guto Inosanche on the card. It's a very good card. Definitely. And everything in Trenton, man, come on. Everything's in Trenton. You know what Trenton's slogan is? Have you seen it? No. It said it's Trenton makes the world takes. You'll see that on the bridge. Okay. Trenton makes it. Trenton the world takes. So that means that everything starts in Trent. Yeah. And then the world just takes and takes and takes. This is going to be huge. Yeah. Okay, this is going to be huge. Trendon is going to put

kickboxing on the map. It's going to explore. I know Lou Neglia is involved and he's a very well-known you know, MMA and kickboxing promoters. So yeah, I'm looking forward to it. I'm going to be in Cleveland for UFC 203, but I will watch on Friday. I'm sorry. If it wasn't a UFC event, I would have gone. And I went when they were here in New York at Madison Square Garden in the theater, they had a tournament. And I loved it. It was fantastic. It's amazing. It's just a totally different five.

It's different than MMA. Yeah, totally. And if I'm being honest, it's a better live event experience because of the ring. Yeah. You can see better. Yeah, it's a better view. I actually think MMA isn't a good live event experience. Like one time, it's fun, the atmosphere.

But then you're watching the screen the whole time. Yeah. And they go on the ground. Yeah, that's true. And kickboxing, you can see everything. Yeah, because you're looking through. through the fence and then sometimes when they're... Can't see.

There's the cameraman standing there in every corner. It's a mess. Yeah, it's difficult. But on television, you know, MMA looks great as well. And kickboxing, yeah, it's just a thing. You just have to feel the atmosphere of being there. Right. It's just amazing.

But that's the same with MMA. But with kickboxing, like you said, you can have a good view from wherever you're sitting. Well, I wish you the best, my man. Thanks, I appreciate that. Thank you very much for coming on. What a pleasure. There he is. The glory.

heavyweight champion, Rico Verhoeven. He returns action this Friday on ESPN 2. How about that? Yes, sir. Live and free from Trenton, New Jersey. He fights Anderson Braddock Silva. And then December 10th in Oberhausen, Germany, he meets Badrari in what some people are calling the most anticipated biggest kickboxing fight that can be made right now and maybe of all time. Definitely. There's going to be a legendary fight. Glory collision, it's called. Yes, sir. Collision. Collision. How about that? I'm a little disappointed. It's not a five-round fight, if I'm being honest. Yeah, me too.

Blame it on butter. Yeah, blame it on butter. But you're going to be there, right? You're going to come to Germany. Actually, there's a UFC in Toronto that night. Why do they keep going ahead? There's just too many UFCs. That's the problem.

Every week is a UFC, man. That is true. But I do wish you the best. Thank you again for coming on, and we will be watching Friday. There he is. Rico Verhoeven, stopping by, defending his title. Do check it out this Friday on ESPN2. Okay, we are going to say goodbye.

We'll reconfigure the studio. Then we'll take your questions and comments as we get set finally for UFC 203 while we do that. Here's my May 2010 interview with Fabrizio Verdo. Prior to his fight against Fyodor Emilianenko, so you'll get to see his mindset as he was approaching the biggest fight of his career. Of course, he's in action this Saturday as well. Watch that, and then we'll be back right here on the May hour. Ariel Holwani in St. Louis, Missouri, with Fabrizio Verdume, who faces Fyodor Mellianenko on June 26. And Fabrizio, thank you very much for taking the time.

This is a huge fight for you. Are you ready for it? I'm worried because this fight is my life fight. It's a very good opportunity. I'm training every day. Maybe, I don't know, maybe seven, six months. Because my last fight is in November. You remember the Pezon fight?

I won. But I want, I went, I want. I want this feather fight because it's the best in the road. A lot of respect for Federer. It's a tough guy. It's good. It's very good respect. But I know it's my opportunity.

It's my turn now. I want. I won or I win. I want. You want? I want feather. Yeah. Was there ever a point that you thought the fight wouldn't happen?

Because there were a lot of problems between M1 and Strike Force. And we were waiting a long time for this. fight? Yes, I wait a long time because it's a big problem. I don't know, the strike force, semi-one. I don't know. This is the problem, but I wait, but I don't stop the training because the change, the date maybe three times, the first time in April, after May, the last time is in June 26th. I'm happy now because it's confirmation of the fight. My red coat is Rafael Cordero, because I train every day in Affliction Gen.

Babelowelho helped me. Van der Leigh helped me. Vladimir Matuchenko helped me. King Moll. Everybody helped me. Marco Munoz. Ryan's the red coach, the King Mour Ryan, is helping me so much the resting.

I train in the boxing. I train Muay Thai. Jiu-Jitsu, my coach, Otave de Soles, the nickname, Rachino, so much. Everybody helped me for this fight. It's very important for you. I remember seeing you after King Mo won the title in Nashville, and you said, I'm next. I'm the one who's going to win next. Why do you think you're going to win?

Because I wait a long time in this fight. I remember, I have a little story. Before I fight in Pride. I see, yeah, my brother, Philippe Verdun, is my brother. Every time I see the Fedorri, Minotauri, fighting in Pride. My brother looked at the fight, Fabricio. You won a Fedor one day?

Yeah, believe me, my brother, and talk to me for me. I don't believe it before, because this is not the same time. Today, I change my game. Muay Thai is very good Muay Thai, good boxing. But the boxing, you know, the Justin in Hollywood. in Hollywood, having the academy, helping me so much. I'm happy.

I'm only waiting now. I'm waiting to fight. I'm excited. Excited for fights. This is... Every fight, I mean, little nervous. Nervous? I'm a little nervous every time.

But this fight, I mean, it's very good. No nervous, nothing. Nothing is very good. Because I see the federal, I respect the federal, a lot of respect the federal. but Fedor is very good guys. I see every time it's not cocky, no cocky, no cocky. This feather is very good. You respect for everybody.

I like Fedor. I like Fedor. He only has one official loss on his record, but that was due to a cut that he suffered many years ago. How do you prepare for someone who has never lost before? Is there something that you've seen in his game that you're like, okay, this is what I'm going to look at and try to exploit this when you fight him

because no one has ever beaten him So it's not like you can watch a tape and be like, okay, this is what I'm going to try to recreate when I fight him. Because the feather, everybody tried the change the boxing, but nothing. The feather is very good punching, the strong punch, the right punch, the cross. Everybody is the same game. Every time, same game, Crocoppe, Arlovesky. Everybody tried the same thing. I'm trying the different technique this time.

I try the, I have the good surprise. You're one of the best jujitsu practice. All right, back on the MMA hour. So that was the interview before his June fight against. It was around a month and a half before the June 2009 fight against Fador Emilienenko. And as you know by now, for Doom beat Emilianenko, which sort of reignited his career. Then he went to the UFC. A couple of fights later, went undefeated until this past May when he lost to

Stepe Miocchich. Knocked out by Steepi Miochich, and it's always very interesting to see how a fighter responds to not only losing his belt, but also getting knocked out in a fashion like that

in his home country. That's big. And so it was supposed to be Ben Rothwell against Verdume. Now it's Brown versus Verdume, which presents its own storyline. They fought once,

UFC on Fox 11 in 2014, and Verdume beat him. Brown coming back, very quickly after the loss to Kane Velasquez. He has a lot to prove. I feel like Brown has lost so much momentum. If you think back to that fight in Orlando, there was so much momentum then. He was so close to a title fight. And now for various reasons, things in the cage, out of the cage. I mean, he's just a totally different, the way people perceive him, completely different. And he's got a tough one on his hands. So that's one of the interesting fights this weekend. UFC two.

Mr. New York, Rick, are you there? I am here. Are you excited for UFC? How would you describe your level of excitement enthusiasm four days before UFC 203? I'm moderately excited. Moderately excited. I'm not, you know, going crazy if, you know, if I were to,

let's say, let's say unforeseen circumstances occurred and I missed the event. Would I be on the verge of tears? No. that said, I will make an effort to see this. I will go out of my way to see this. I am interested. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that this is my favorite, on paper, of course, we don't know how it's going to turn out.

My favorite main card of the year. There is something for everyone on this main card. We haven't even talked about the fact. Uriah Faber is fighting this weekend. Uriah freaking Faber two months after he loses the Dominic Cruz, excuse me, three months after he loses the Dominic Cruz, is fighting this weekend in a very tough fight against Jimmy Rivera. by the way, like a super tough fight.

That's getting no attention whatsoever. How about Joanne Calderwood fighting on the main card? Like that, I had to remind people of that last week had no idea. I feel like there's, and of course the punk thing, the heavyweight title fight. I just feel like there's something. It's just a fun main card. It is a good card. A fun card.

I don't know, you know, it's not like the highest ranked card we're going to get. It's not one verse two, three, verse five. But it's, there's something for everybody. I agree with you on that. So that's why I would go out of my way to see this, but it's not, It's not an event like a 200 or a 196 where I'm saying, if I miss this, I will be beside myself. But it's close for me. It's up there to where I want to see this pretty badly.

How would you describe your interest in the punk fight? Very interested. I just, you know, we've been on this ride for so long. I just want to see where it ends up. I want to see what's at the end of it. And don't particularly, you know, have a rooting interest one way or the other. I'm not really, I don't have a, I don't have a, I, It would be hard for me to say I'm leaning one way or the other as well.

I don't know where CM Punk is at. I don't know where Mickey Gall is at. It's really one of those fights where I'm going in almost like clean canvas, blank slate, and we're going to see where it goes up. That's what's fun about it. That's what's fun about that fight. I still, again, I'll go back to what I said. Like no one back in December of 2014 was earmarked for the third fight on the pay-per-view for UFC 203, right?

So this idea that punk is taking someone's spot, this idea that he doesn't deserve to be there. I mean, we just need to come to terms with it. I think it's a throwback. Um, there's, there's a lot to be said about the fact that he's still here. You know what I mean? Because I bet you most people thought after the shoulder injury, after the back surgery, that he could have easily walked away and said, you know what? I'm just, my body's broken. This is not working out. I don't want to keep going to Milwaukee. Like there, there were ample opportunities for him to walk away. And I really think that no one would have batted an eye. would have, yeah, some people would have talked smack on Twitter. Yeah, some people would have held it

against him. But it wouldn't have defined his career. And the fact that he's still here and we're four days away and he's in Cleveland, look, I hate to put it in these terms, but that is a small victory in its own right. And I do, do, you understand when I say that he has the least amount of pressure, maybe not in history, because someone fighting in his debut or whatever, lower on the card. But the expectations, the bar has been set so low for him that even if he gets by three, four, or five minutes, I feel like that's another victory. Yeah. And I understand what you're trying to say.

I know he's not striving for that. Right. But that's just like who's picking him to win? Who's not a soul. Right. Outside of his team. I mean, even they, I'm sure in the back of their minds are like, we don't know. They don't know.

It's one of those fights where I get your point that the bar is so low. But I think that the spotlight and the. tension is so bright that no matter that bar is it doesn't matter where it is it doesn't matter what happens if if punk doesn't come in here and even if he i would be shocked even if you eeked out a decision i think people would say mickey gall was no good i guarantee that there would be a subset of people that that's what they would say and there would there's there's just this group of people that don't want to give him credit for anything um and then there's a group of people who want to give him credit for, you know, even just getting in the cage.

And there's not a middle ground with him. He's very polarizing. And I don't know if anything he does is going to be enough. Unless he comes out there and knocks out Mickey Gall in 20 seconds, I don't think anything's going to be enough to satisfy the people that already are against him. Which is a big group. When they announced that he had signed, did you think he would fight someone who fights who looks like Mickey Gall from training from the very low?

limited footage or did you think that they would book him against a 36, 37-year-old part-time firefighter type of guy? That's what I thought. Me too. Is it fair to say that Mickey Gall is a tougher first opponent than you expected? 100%. I mean, with the cab, I don't know enough about Mickey Gall. From what I have seen, you know, the fight against Mike Jackson wasn't like indicative of anything. It didn't really tell me much of anything. But based on, you know, what I have seen, he is a tougher opponent visually, like, you know, the eye test, way tougher than I thought CM Punk was going to get. And let's not forget, not that long ago, tough 10.

Let's take tough 10. The highest rated season in the ultimate fighter history. There's a guy named Matt Matrione who came on that show that was O&O that had nothing as far as pro fights are concerned. Yeah. And he fought in a couple fights and didn't make it to the finale and then fought in the UFC. I mean, the fact that here we are with a guy who's 2 and O against a guy who's O'NO, isn't the craziest thing in the world.

Let's stop pretending that this stuff that hasn't happened in the rich and storied history of the UFC. Yeah, absolutely. I think the people who do have an objection, it's the nonsense about he took somebody's spot. Well, every time there's a pay-per-view card, somebody on that card is taking somebody else's spot.

That's just the reality of this. There's only 10 spots on a card. He has one of them. Too bad. But also, do you think less, of Alistair Overeem, Steepi Miochich, Rubisha Verdume, Travis Brown, Joanne, Collegewood, Your Eyefare, do you think less of them because they are sharing a card with

C&Punk? Does he devalue them as fighters? Does he devalue the UFC brand? You know what I mean? Like, it doesn't affect anyone. If there was a precedent where the UFC only put on the absolute best fights, every matchup was done by ranking number, and only that, and there was no consideration of pay-per-view, and there was no consideration. Chal Sondin fought John Jones after losing. I mean, from that point forward,

we should have realized somewhere along the line that this is a sport that isn't based strictly on rankings, isn't strictly based on accomplishments and credits. There's something to somebody being a showman and selling a pay-per-view. And CM Punk, whether people like it or not, is somebody that people want to tune in to see. Okay, well, now we're just saying.

agreeing too much. Yeah. It's kind of weird. It's weird. It's been a while. It feels weird. So you're all in. And there's nothing else you could say other than, yeah, like, good for CM Punk. I mean, the people who were actively rooting for his failure, it just feels so evil.

It's so evil. Why? What is the point? The reaction if he wins, some way somehow will be very funny. There will be, believe me, there will be excuses made if he wins. There will be excuses made. I'm just so fascinated to see what the buy rate is. I'm so fascinated to see.

We're about to find out just how good of promoters the UFC is. Can they get the wrestling community hooked? Can they even inform them that this is happening? Because I'm certain that a lot of them don't know. They don't have the benefit of the WWE. That's what I was going to say. Do you feel like they've properly tapped that WWE audience? Well, they did this whole show, which was a fairly well-produced show on,

they aired it on a Monday on FS1, which was, nonsensical. First of all, it shouldn't have aired on FS1. It should have aired on an FX or a big fox because as I said to Meltzer, the FS1 audience

already knows about CM Punk. They've heard about them. That's the hardcore fan base. They're buying whatever the UFC is selling. You book a CM Punk and you tell the story the way they told this story in order to capture the imagination of the non-MMA fan.

And then you do it on a Monday night at the same time as Raw to ensure that none of the wrestling fans see this. I mean, what the heck are they doing? Yeah. I think obviously the people who are familiar enough kind of with the relationship between UFC and WWE with people who have, from the wrestling side have covered Brock Lesnar Strangis and those type of people will be aware. But I'm sure there's a set of fans that are, you know, strictly wrestling fans that don't really even know.

CM Punk is. And that's unfortunate because you would think that A, they would be interested in B, when they signed him. And remember, you have to recall the same. state of the UFC when they signed CM Punk. They were coming off, they were about to approach the end of one of their worst years financially. Tons of injuries, tons of canceled fights. This was 2014. Now, 2015, fast forward a year later, they're coming off their best year. Do they signed CM Punk? Do they sign CM Punk when they know that, you know, Scott Koker would have easily signed him? And do we also remind people that the UFC was the one who approached him? There's so

much to this, thankfully we could stop talking about it come Saturday and we're finally going to talk about him actually going in there and whether or not he won or lost look good. I'm happy that that 18 month, 19 month journey is finally coming to an end. And that's what I was talking about when I was saying how excited I am for this event because we've been on this for so long. It feels like forever. And now no matter what, we will have a verdict on CM Punk and Mickey Gall to be honest at the end of this fight. It's just to be commendable that he's actually doing it. And then there's a heavyweight title fight. Heavyweight title fight. Faber, how does he look against Rivera? Typically, he does very well in non-title fights. I know Frank Yeager was different, but, you know,

and Caldra would look good in her last fight against Latourne. So there's a lot to like there. Unfortunately, I will not be wearing a Cavs jersey while doing our preview video because you crap the bet on that one, my man. Any Cavs players you think show up? Yeah, I have to imagine. I know JR, as you see, I know J.R was in New York. at the Kanye West show yesterday, but maybe he'll make it back out to Cleveland. And the great Dave Noseworthy was there too. There you go.

Do I think there will be calves? I think there'll be a lot of sports people from Cleveland. Scale 1 to 10. How interested in, excuse me, how impressed, I should say, were you by Alexander Gustavson's performance on Saturday? Was that the performance that he needed to get back in there? Or did he just need a win to get back on track? It's a tougher question to answer because there's so much nuance and context to it because he's been on such a losing skid.

The performance, if I'm looking at it just objectively, like, I only saw this fight. It wasn't, you know, didn't blow me away. He didn't blow the doors off. But because of where he was at and how long it's taken him to finally get back on the winning track, I'm going to say relatively impressed. He's never been a guy who's gone out there and absolutely murdered people. he's always kind of been somebody who puts together a really, you know, solid performance. And then the John Jones fight took that to a different level. That took him to a level where he hadn't been before.

So I'm going to say solid, impressed. I'm glad to have him back on track. So solid seven, eight. Yeah. All right. Because of the context. Right. You know, the performance itself, if I'm just looking at it as a fight, it wasn't anything, you know, dominant.

It wasn't that special. I think Alex has more in him But I think that this was something he needed to get past that And now the next performance and the next performance after that He will continue to improve Yeah so Ryan Bader with a big win Huge Crazy knockout

Knee to the face And a fun fight between Barnett and Arlofsky Barnett wins that one Curious to see what they do with him next And what do you think? MSG Eddie Alvarez Connor Did we get Eddie

Did we book that fight for Eddie with the Waukutton that we sealed the deal? You're booking all kinds of fights. Let me tell you something about Kensington. That place is, that's a different kind of place. It looked like a different kind of place. I don't know. Did it come across that way?

It did, but also the way you guys did it, it was focused on you guys. So you're not seeing like, you know. People are looking at you. Yeah, everybody who's probably on the street, staring at you and that type of thing. You see the TVs. You get the hints. Sure. But what I think is because I'm from New York and because I've lived in the tri-state area my entire life, I've been to cities like this.

I've seen that kind of atmosphere. I've seen these things. People may not be picking up on just what they were like seeing in the background. You know what I mean? Like the gated houses. The TV's just sitting on the stoop, the abandoned completely properties, vacant houses. You know, the guy's just hustling on the street, selling the t-shirts, that type of thing. I'm used to it, so I was like identifying with it, but there may be people who that was a new experience for.

Did you, after watching it, do you now have a greater appreciation for Eddie? I always knew Eddie was one of those types that was tough as nails, fighter from Philly. Like he has that, he's had that persona, but the things that he talked about, there were certain things that he was mentioning that were super, like, revealing and really, um, interesting about his character, about the things about the letters, about his own self-doubts, and writing these letters to both his then-girlfriend now, wife, and himself, all kinds of interesting looks into kind of the mentality of a guy that you might not get. And, you know, from the exterior and where he's growing up, you wouldn't think that Eddie Avera is going to sit down and write a letter to himself or to his wife about, you know, this is where I'm at

in my career. This is what I'm fearful of. It's a really kind of of enlightened thing. And I just, I appreciate him so much more as, as a overall package, a human outside of just being that, like, kind of tough fighter. Because he's always been a tough fighter, but he's a tough person. He's a, he's persevered through so much in his life. It was, it was a really powerful. That's what, that's the one word I would use to describe it. It was very powerful. Well, I'm glad we finally got it done, proving once again that I am a man in my word. That is for Alastair Overeem, who continues to spew this propaganda that I've, uh, promised him. an iPad, although I did say that we'll discuss if and when he becomes heavyweight champion,

so it is the day of reckoning on Saturday. It is coming, but maybe we'll go back into the archives and prove once and for all that we never actually promised him this. But anyway, I do appreciate everyone watching. So do we have, uh, so yeah, let's run through a couple quick ones here. Let's do him generally. So we talked on Gustafs in. Barnett, um, where does he go now? I mean, he's got to be back in, you know, the upper echelons of the heavyweight division. Where does this place him? a lot of people misunderstood when I said on Saturday it's a shame Brock Lesnar isn't available because I would love to see Brock Lesnar versus Barnett next.

I'm not saying it's a shame like, oh, I'm just, you know, sweeping his alleged PD use under the rug. I'm just saying, look, it's a shame he's not available. I mean, I'm not condoning it at all. I didn't understand how people didn't understand that tweet. But anyway, that would have been a very fun fight. I mean, just looking at who's out there in the rankings, JDS versus Barnett would make a lot of Who's calling us now? Uh-oh.

Should we take a phone call? Let's listen in. Hold on. All right. JDS versus Barnett, I think, is a lot of fun. There's not a ton of options. I mean, we'll see what happens here. Maybe it's Verduem against Barnett. How much fun would that be?

Wouldn't that be great? Verdoom versus Barnett, given their background? So I think there are enough options, but I think we need to wait and see how things play out on Saturday. You are not going to believe this. Oh, oh.

Do you know how much money we could be saving on our energy bill right now? Oh, it was one of those calls? Yeah, it was one of those calls. Damn. What a bummer. That's the first. So the studio, that's a first. Yeah.

So yeah. I said, you know, for you that missed it, everyone else heard it. But basically, let's wait and see what happens. Maybe Verdum, if he wins, you know, there are some options. Overeem. I mean, if he loses. The heavyweight division, it just feels like one win gets you right back where you need to be every time. And that was an incredible fight.

Especially when you have a name like Barnett. Joe Silva. Let's talk about... Oh, yes. What would you say about Joe Silva, his history, his legacy with the sport? How would you encapsulate Joe Silva? Well, certainly a giant, a legend. Who knows how this sport would turn up, how it would end up, how it would be, if we'd be where we are without him.

I mean, again, I would highly recommend reading that story that Dave Meltzer wrote. here's a guy who saw the phone number for the UFC in Black Belt magazine. They were running some kind of super fan promotion. He calls the number Campbell McLaren, who's running the show back then, who's been on this show, picks up the phone, and he just starts spewing off some ideas about the UFC. And if you know Joe Silva at all, fortunately, he doesn't do interviews. Maybe that will change once he retires. But I doubt it at least at the beginning.

Anyway, if you know him, it's 100% Joe Silva. He's very opinionated. He's very intimidating. You know, I mentioned on the M.A. Beat, he's not a very tall guy. But when he walked into a room, you know, when he was dealing with fighters and managers, I mean, he swung the biggest stick. I mean, he was a guy that a lot of people, including Dana White, never wanted to get in an argument with because he can never beat Joe Silva in an argument. Just a super intimidating, aggressive guy. But a very talented guy, a very, you know, as far as like booking fights.

and building contenders. He told me a long time ago, his job is not to, you know, book title fights, make champions. It's to make contenders, to have a queue of contenders so that after one guy defends the belt, there's a next guy and a next guy and the next guy. And that kind of changed the way I viewed matchmaking. And I saw a lot of people say when the news came out, oh, what an easy job. I'd love to do this job. This would be the best job. You don't want Joe Silva's job. It is a nightmare. It really is. There are so many shows pretty much every week. Tons of people. get fired, excuse me, tons of people get injured, you have to fire people, you have to release people, you have to break people's dreams, and you have a vision for cards, you have a vision

for UFC 200, how you're going to make it the biggest, baddest card of all time, and more often than not, the vision doesn't come to fruition. More often than not, you have to change things at the last minute, you have to put together fights you don't want to make, you have to rush guys into fights that they're not ready for. That is frustrating. Now, of course, you know, it's a job, and jobs are tough, and you got to deal with it. But, you know, the task of signing fighters, keeping things fresh, finding new talent, building new contenders. It's a very tough job. Both he and Sean Shelby are the greatest ever do it.

Obviously, they've been doing it for so long, and the UFC will miss them. If I'm WME, A, I'm kicking myself that I didn't try to keep him around earlier before this, you know, all came to fruition. And B, I'm sort of dreading the day that he walks away because Sean Shelby is very, very talented. it, you can make the case that Chan Shelby is even better at his job, in my opinion, than Joe Silva, but he's just one man. And you can also make the case that those two guys are doing the job of five or six, if not more. And I think they're going to miss his presence greatly. I mean, they really, really respected Joe Silva.

Joe Silva was so respected that he was the only full-time Zufo employee to not live in Las Vegas. He lives in Virginia. But he's just so damn good at his job that they let him live. where he wants to live, which is with his family back in in Virginia. He is just a huge part. He proceeds Dana Lorenzo Frank. He's like 94-95 Zufa. It's not even called Zufa back then.

It was called SEG. So yeah, this is the dawn of a new era. And in my opinion, one of many changes to come to the UFC. GSP, he mentioned a potential trilogy fight with BJP, dismissing it, nothing to gain. Any thoughts on that? No, no. That's not happening. silliness.

We don't like the Ricardo Lama's fight. We certainly don't like this fight. I mean, he's fighting at 145 now, right? George said he could, you know, get down to lightweight. Okay. Just please don't get me started on the whole Dana White GSP thing. I mean, this to me is, it's like someone taking a sledgehammer to my skull. The greatest, arguably the greatest fighter of all time, arguably.

Number two, if you disagree. Number three, at the most or at the least, is telling you, I want to come back. let's figure it out. Is saying I'm going to get drug tested. Is saying I did a training camp. I am ready to come back and you know it would be great to fight in Toronto on December 10. And the president of the company keeps telling people, no, he doesn't want to come back. No, no, no, no, no, no, he doesn't want to come back.

He's not really serious. He just wants to do it for sponsors. He wants to do it. I don't understand where things went wrong between these two. But the back and forth, like the GSP almost trying to convince us in public that he is actually serious about coming back. And then Dana tried to refute this is the most frustrating storyline in MMA right now. Yes, they're apart. Yes, this is a negotiation. But why can't we just say, look,

we're going to figure it out. We're going to sit down. If the dollars makes sense, we're going to make it happen. But why are you continuing to tell people that he is not serious about coming back when he is clearly serious about coming back? It makes no sense. And he deserves more respect than that, in my opinion. It's an arms race, though. I feel like both sides are kind of, it's a negotiation. I'm, um, but can't think, can't, negotiation just be look we're in negotiations that that would be nice right you know like why why are we trying to call the guy a liar yeah i think i think we're past that though i don't i don't think you can come back uh tough 24 did you watch it no did you i did not will you watch it no there's nothing that's gonna get me

to watch it it doesn't matter how many champions there's too much organizations it doesn't matter i like how we're calling them world champions from other organizations world champions from other organizations World champions from other organizations, there are 16 world champions? Now do you think this, though? Will it have an impact on the flyweight division? Do you think that'll give a little more? No.

Nothing. I want to see Demetrius Johnson versus Louis Smolka next. I want to see Demetrius Johnson versus Wilson Hayes. Not just the... No. Okay. I mean, look at the ratings for the first episode, and typically that one does the best.

The show has run its course. It's the same show. It was a mistake to put two coaches on this particular season. It should have been every man for himself. It should have been 16 guys in a bracket, fighting each other, and basically we're throwing you in a house. And Fighter X, Tim Elliott, you have to go up to the other guy who you may fight down the line,

but currently you're not scheduled to fight and be like, look, man, do you want to go, you know, train together? Do you want to spar? And that might lead to a weird situation. And when guys start to lose, they might have to pick sides. But it just has to be every man for himself for the opportunity. to fight the king. This idea that we're picking teams and it's Benavitas and Sehudo, it's like, what are we doing? These guys lost the DJ already, not that long ago and they're going to teach other guys how to beat them.

Come on, guys. Open your head a little bit. Open your mind. Think. Try to evolve a little bit. It's the same show 24 seasons in, not to mention the international ones. The same show in the same training facility, essentially the same house, wearing the same jerseys. How is that interesting?

And the ultimate fighter back in the day was interesting when there was one UFC every two, three, five months, right? Now this is UFC every week. I don't need that extra hour. I just don't. Now, if they had done that bracket and that setup that you had said. A little more. Would you even still watch? I don't think I would still.

Maybe not, but a little more. It's just frustrating to see a lack of imagination and creativity and thought. We've lost faith in the brand, for sure. The brand of the ultimate fighter? Yes, the ultimate fighter. Yeah, because it's the same thing after. 10 years. Misha Tate, do you think this will impact her marketability, this story about her taking the

little girl down the mountain? I mean, Misha Tate is a great person, and she's very, very popular if you just go by social media. She's kind of done this sort of thing before. She helped Brian Carraway's mom. I mean, it will be a nice story, but at the end of the day, you know, her fighting and her wins and losses will determine what kind of... No net impact.

Yeah. I mean, it gets her in the news and it's beautiful and I commend her. I don't want to, you know, downplay it or belittle it, but I don't think she's going to, you know. I think things like this are always a good part of the story. Remember when John Jones was the choir boy and he stopped the mugger? That part of the story just grew the legend, but it's not going to do anything on its own, in my opinion. It needs, it needs, you know, the timing needs to be right for a push. This person is picking CM Punk to upset the world, to shock the world.

Hey now. I'm asking you, are you picking CM Punk to shock the world? You're asking me personally? I'm asking you. I don't pick. I told you. Why you keep asking me predictions? I don't pick.

You had no problem picking when it came to not wearing that Cavs jersey. You picked your little hard out. I was fighting for my life. And by the way, people mentioned the astute ones notice that when I did the UFC 202 thing with the fans,

you know, the Irish fans, I said, here's my pick, and still change. champion, Conne McGregor, but he was going to be champion whether or not he won or lost. Right. They realized that you didn't actually make a pick. Just two people. I see.

I personally do not, I don't think CN Punk's going to win, but I don't know enough. I mean, we'll see. I don't think he's going to win, though. But I think... Why aren't you going to Cleveland? Didn't you say you were going to go? Glory's on Friday. You can go Saturday.

It's only a one hour flight. No, no, no. Can't do this. All right. What are the odds? Do you know what the odds are? I know what they are. Yeah, CM Punk is like a 3 to 1 dog, something like that, right? Plus 363 and Gall is minus 355. That's actually higher than it used to be.

I think it was, Mickey Gall was less of a favorite before, and I think, you know, again, that number could be anything and I wouldn't have the slightest read. I don't like betting or wagering on debuting fighters anything. debuting fighters, even if they're from another organization and they just came to the UFC, any debuting fighters, let alone somebody who's coming in with no previous pro-fight experience. I wouldn't even touch this one from a betting perspective. Are you surprised that Uriah Faber is a slight underdog? I'm not.

I mean, I think we've reached that point in his career where the fights are going to be closer. He's not going to be a guy who's- Would you take a flyer? Whose steam rolls. Would I take a flyer on Faber? I don't know Probably not I'd probably pass in this case

Because I want to see one fight I want to see You know how he reacts I probably wouldn't touch it But I think he's I don't think he's by any means Not in this fight I think he's clearly in this fight

Are you surprised that Calderwood Is a slight underdog That may be more But still not No All right Does punk here You can answer this now

Are you surprised No, go ahead. Hit me, hit me. Overeem, slight underdog. No. Very close. Plus 124, minus 120. That's about where I would think it would be just because, I mean, clearly

Overeem is dangerous, but clearly Overeem has the flaws that he's always, like, Overeem, you know what you're getting with Alastro Overeux. He is going to be a very dynamic striker. He's going to probably hurt Stipe at some point in this fight. But at the same time, he has a deficiency in taking punishment. If Steepa can catch him a few clean times, he has a very good path to victory. I don't know which way I would lean. I'm probably, you know what, I think I'd probably lean over him in this fight.

But I could see Steepay earning a really workman-like decision as well. I could see him just, you know, racking up the strike count and putting it on him. I'm surprised that Verdum isn't a bigger favorite. He's minus 200 Browns plus 191. Are you surprised at that close? I am because of how one-sided that first fight was. Verduem kind of kicked him around the ring. I mean, even up until the finish, he was just beating him up.

So yeah, I'm a little surprised. But I think people recognize that Travis Brown has that kind of one-hitter-quitter ability. He can't turn a fight around very quickly. He's very dynamic, very powerful. But yeah, I would think for Doom would be a bigger favorite there. All right. Does CM Punk use cult of personality? The question we all want to know.

Wow. What a great question. I think it would be a mistake not to use it. That place will go nuts. It is unfortunate. Could you imagine what the scene would be like if this debut fight was happening at the United Center in Chicago? They would have lost, or the Allstate Center, whatever, in Rosemount Horizon. I think.

like he has he is associated with that song that is his song now i do think it was a mistake if i'm being honest um did you watch the evolution of punk i did yeah all four episodes the ending montage was just a little too like 1984 rocky if i'm being honest yeah i feel like you got to do some of that with the music it felt a little derivative but he needs to come out to that song yeah i mean the place now do you think there's any possibility that he wants to disassociate himself with that because it's so tied to his wrestling career. Look, he's coming out of CM Punk. That's his wrestling name.

Sure. That's who he is. I think it's a mistake to completely shed yourself of that persona, that image. He's done enough of that. A lot of people when they first heard that he was going to sign there, like Meltzer said, they thought he was going to be cutting these great promos. That's not what he's done. And I don't begrudge him for that. He has to feel comfortable with this.

He's set it time and again and people haven't liked that. It's about the journey, not the end of result and the destination. He's just not comfortable with coming out and saying, I'm the best in the world and I'm going to kick your ass when he's the new kid. And I know that there's an irony there when he used to complain about other people getting shots, you know, over him. There is an irony. And we've addressed that in our interviews.

So I think there's certain things he feels comfortable with, calling himself CM Punk. And I feel like he's going to come out to the song. I feel, but I also wish. wouldn't be surprised. I have no knowledge. I don't know if he's going to come out. But if you're asking me, should he, I would suggest it's a good idea. For Doom Brown, do you feel like the winner of that is next in line? No, Kane. Fair enough. It's got to be Kane. Yep. UFC 205. What's the deal here? What's the deal? You know, look, if it's me and I'm talking about what I'm emotionally invested in, it's Alvarez McGregor. After experiencing that whole day with

Eddie Alvarez, that's the fight I want to see. And I think that the first show at MSG needs to feel special. Champion versus champion, McGregor, with the opportunity to become the only man in UFC history to hold two titles at the same time. It feels big. Eddie Alvarez with his crew from Philly, Connor, with his Irish crew coming from Dublin with the Irish people here in New York will feel like a massive deal. Not having Ron on the card, that's done. done. It's not happening. And the one concern is, will Connor feel healthy enough? I think they have to book it sooner rather than later. I think it has to be this week, right? I mean, we're approaching almost two months away and there's nothing. Other fights. Yeah, what else? Seroni Lawler,

definitely the one being discussed. Edgar Stevens being discussed. These aren't done, so don't go writing articles and saying that I'm saying it's done, but these are the ones being discussed. Like I said last week, Jacaree Rockhold was discussed, but, you know, there are people. appears to be some issues there. So potentially Romero Wideman, which to me, Romero Wyman is the fight to make. There's no doubt about that.

That is like the second coming of Hulk Hogan versus the Iron Sheek, Circa in 1984. Mr. All-American, Chris Wyatman, going in there against the heel, Yo-O Romero, who doesn't really quite understand why he's the heel, who's sort of oblivious to it, as he's talking about religion and all this stuff,

with his accent and his promos, Cuban defector. I mean, if Wyman wins that fight, he becomes a megastar. at MSG, USA, USA, you got to build on that. And then if you can do Jacaree Rockhold, that's the fight to make. Wait, did I say Jaceroy-Rocco? The original plan was Rockhold Romero and now Romero Widman.

But Jaceray-Roc-Haw too is the fight. I understand why they're thinking Romero against Rockhold because Romero beat Jaceray and Rockville beat Wyden. So I guess that makes sense. But Jacerre and Rockhold have the history. And then the way I just laid it out with the Wydenin and Romero, that's the fight to make. I equinta against Alves. I suspect Sterling will be on the card.

I might be missing. Potentially, Joanna, potentially. So, I mean, there's things there. Is that up to the caliber of what we were expecting going in? Yeah. Also, I could not agree with you more on that middleweight breakdown. That's got to be it. You have to do those fights.

Of course. Cyborg and Rhonda. Yes. Cyborg is on record now. saying that she still wants this fight, that's the fight that has to happen. Do we ever get that? I'm not very confident.

Because you think Ronda wouldn't come up to meet Chris? What would stop this from happening? It is the big, clear, do we agree that this is the biggest female fight that could happen? Absolutely. I mean, nothing's changed even though Ronda has lost. I still maintain that Ronda shouldn't fight for the belt upon returning. I still maintain that they should have her fight Holly home. So, do you think it would be that she-

They're looking at December 30th, but that's not, you know, they were hoping for MSG. That's not happening. December 30th would be the next big one in America. December 10th is in Toronto. I don't think there's any history. I mean, Ronda going for the belt is probably what's going to happen. And I get it. She deserves it.

It makes sense. She made that division. She's the queen. I totally get it. But I still think you can get away with like Amanda Nunes versus Giuliana Pena and Ronda versus Hollyholm. Now, Hollyholm has an injured thumb, so maybe she's not ready. but you know what I mean?

Like I don't think Rhonda necessarily has to fight for the belt and I think you can get two for the price of one. But what about Cyborg? I mean, Cyborg's fighting into September, so we'll see what happens there. I think they need to get, I mean, I would prefer if they stop booking Cyborg at 140. Just make her the 145 pound champion

and build the division around her. She's a big enough star. She deserves it. You can find enough people to fight her twice, three times a year. In the same way, there wasn't that many options at 135, not that long ago and now look at the options, we can get there. But after seeing what we've seen out of Cyborg, I don't like the idea of her fighting at 140. I think it makes no sense.

I've said this. She has, she has, you know, she is the queen of 145. She's the very best of 145. And she's killing herself to get to 140. And that division doesn't exist. Like, what are we trying to prove? She can make 135. So what are we trying to prove by having her come in the middle and only hurting herself in the process?

Like, what's the end goal here? What are we trying to say? I don't get it. What's the message? Because we can. It doesn't make sense. Sure. Cormier versus Jones, too.

Is that the matchup to make? No. You want Jones and Rumble? I want Joan. No, that's the worst. Jones and Gustafin. Jones and Gust of Sin. But of course,

it feels weird to talk about Jones because he still has to face to the Nevada Athletic Commission. Like to talk about him even being back is silly. It's putting the cart before the horse. But let's just say he's back next week. Jones Gustafson, Rumble, D.C.

It has to be Rumble D.C. next. There has to be repercussions. And I think that booking Gustafsson versus Jones next, if you can, will elicit memories of that great fight at 165 will allow, if you book Jones versus Rumble, it elicit memories, it elicits memories of the hit and run, because that's when they were supposed to fight. So that's like the bad John Jones era.

Cormier, you can't go back to that well because we've been burned too many times. People are exhausted. That fight will bomb on pay-per-view. take my word for it. But if you go back to the Gustafson fight, that elicits memories of arguably the greatest fight in UFC history. That elicits memories of Jones fighting above himself, digging down deep, heart of a champion. That's what you need to remind people of, that John Jones. The lead-up was horrendous. He didn't take him seriously. But in that fight, he showed who he truly is. That's what you need to try to reignite. Now, I like the idea of Gustafin fighting a couple more times as well to

rebuild his confidence because I don't think one decision win over Jan Blachowitz gets you there. But in a perfect world, if his confidence is back and he's right and all that, I think that's the best fight for John Jones. You don't think that the roller coaster of John Jones versus Cormeier would turn into anything. You can't do it. You can't do it. It's been too long. Already it was sort of sputtering, getting to 200. It was it was pulled. The rug was pulled underneath everyone. It would be a huge mistake in my opinion to book that fight right away. Interesting. Interesting.

All right. We got one more, two more? What do we got? We got no more. That was the last one. Wow. How about that? So heavyweight champion this time next week is?

I'm leaning Alistair over him. And Verdume you're picking? Verduem I'm picking. Yeah. And you're picking Gall? Yes. And you're picking Rivera. That one I'm not as, I wouldn't say I have much of a lean either way.

Okay. We're kind of getting to the point in your eye of Aver's career. where I'm not sure, like, you know, a year, two years ago, it was, oh, non-title fight, your eye favor wins, obviously. Now we're at the point where I don't know. We have to kind of see. There is a point where he's going to slow down. We haven't really seen it yet.

He's been pretty, he's been incredible conditioning. He's always kind of stayed at that level, like a Michael Bisbing. Michael Bisbing hasn't suffered much of a drop-off, but there will come a time where they will, and you never know when that's going to hit. It typically happens one fight and then after that it continues. Could be any day now for favor. Could be years down the line, but I'm not sure.

And that's why I would stay away. All right. Other fights, by the way, of note on Saturday, Betch Coghaya against Cleveland's own, Jessica I. Oh, yeah. FS1 prelims. Ian McCall returning. Remember, he was supposed to fight a 201 against Ray Borg.

C.B. Dalloway on the card, Yancey Maderos. Prelim's a little thinner than the main card I see. spoke so highly up, but... Some names, I'm into it. Some names, yeah. Going to Cleveland, first time. Can't wait. Going to be great.

It's going to be nice to be in a city that wins NBA championships, right? The wine and gold. We're all in, yeah. City of Champions. All right, well, thank you very much. Glory this weekend as well, so it's a very busy weekend in combat sports. Trenton. Friday, 11 p.m.

Well, not really 11 p.m. It's on FightPass, too. Don't forget about Fight Pass. Yeah, 830, Fight Pass. Also. Simon Marcus had a lot. lining that one. Should be good. Okay. Canada's own. All right, that does it for us. You can hit my music. So here we are, my friends, four days away. What a long and winding road it has been for

CM Punk. Nay, Phil Brooks. But Saturday night, we presume he makes that walk, a walk that a lot of people thought he would not make. A lot of people thought after the shoulder injury, he would bounce. A lot of people thought after the back surgery in February, he would bounce. And I did not cause it, by the way, just for the record. Did a pretty damn good job of blocking out all the critics, all the haters. And now here he is, about to make his MMA debut. Does he deserve it? Did the UFC make a mistake?

It all doesn't really matter at this point. Barring any unforeseen obstacles, it is going down in the same arena. Get this. That he walked out on the, on the WW, I should say. back in 2014. His last day on the job, he tells Vincent McMahon at the queue in Cleveland. Peace, I'm out of here. Now here he is in that same arena about to make his MMA debut. Crazy. You couldn't script it any better. Amazing. Oh yeah, the heavyweight title also on the line Saturday night as well. We shall be there. Stay tuned for our coverage again. Thank you so much for watching the Edgar Henry video

and as well the Eddie Alvarez video, Walk and Talks, nothing like him, love doing them. I want to thank everyone who stopped by. Thank you very much to Dave Meltzer. Thank you very much to Anthony Pettis. Thank you very much Duke Rufus, Junior Dos Santos, Kane Velasquez, Ben Rothwell, Rico Verhoeven, and you back next Monday, same time and place.

Don't forget it until they say peace. Somebody. Support for this show comes from Volkswagen. As the U.S. gets ready to host soccer's biggest moment on a worldwide stage, Volkswagen is helping people discover new turfs and new ways to play the beautiful game right here in the U.S. From deaf and power wheelchair soccer to beach and futsal, Volkswagen is actively supporting all the communities and teams within the U.S. soccer ecosystem. They're supporting talent from across the U.S. soccer extended national teams and are focused on helping to give these less widely known forms of soccer a platform moving forward.

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