MMA Fighting - The MMA Hour with Ariel Helwani - Episode 347

Episode Date: September 12, 2016

Ariel Helwani speaks to John Pollock (00:06:54), Jim Miller (00:29:50), Jimmie Rivera (00:49:27), Alexander Gustafsson (01:08:48), Muhammed Lawal (01:27:04), Anastasia Yankova (01:56:34), NewYorkRic to take your questions (02:22:22), and Mickey Gall (03:13:19). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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100% satisfaction guaranteed. It's the mixed martial arts hour with a mixed martial arts hour back in your life on this Monday, September 12th, 2016. Hello again, everyone. I'm Mario Hawani back inside our New York City studio, back from a wild and wacky weekend in Cleveland, Ohio. Truth be told, I enjoyed my time in Cleveland. I was there since Wednesday, got there early Wednesday morning.

It was sweltering, very humid, much like New York City. We attended the open workouts around 1 o'clock on Wednesday, and those were outside, and I was sweating a lot during the day. those. And a small crowd showed up. And at first I was a little surprised by that, but after talking to a bunch of people, it just seems like, you know, we know that Cleveland is a very working class town, hardworking people, blue collar. It's just tough to get them to come out, you know, on a Wednesday, Thursday at 1 p.m. leave work and just watch guys train. It's not like they're coming from, you know, parts unknown to Las Vegas on vacation and they're ready and willing to take in everything that fight

week brings to the table. So it was a little quiet on Wednesday, but it was, you know, it was starting to build a little bit. The press conference on Thursday was kind of dead. Had a chance to check out the Cleveland Indians game, which was fantastic. What a field that is. Progressive field, one of the very best that I've ever been to. And then the buzz started to build and build and build. And I got to say, the people of Cleveland are 100% still on cloud nine. They are still on that high. It's like they just won the championship yesterday. You could just feel it. Everyone walking around, not just with Cavaliers gear, would just Cleveland gear. Everyone is just so proud to be from Cleveland. And of course, we saw that on Saturday.

That crowd, and I know I pissed off a lot of Irish people by saying this, but it's true. That crowd was deafening. That might have been the loudest crowd that I've ever heard for a UFC event. Louder than UFC 127 in Sydney, which I said was one of the loudest. The ACE Arena was on fire for that event. And maybe even louder than Dublin in 2014. Now, I know there was half the amount of people in Dublin, but still, I'm just talking about the actual noise in the arena. When Steppe Miochich came out, Cleveland's own, they were going nuts. When he landed a punch, they were going nuts. Like, they were exploding for every punch.

And of course, it got dicey there for a second. He got dropped. Overing went for the guillotine, but he was able to weather the storm and ultimately win the fight. So Steepen Miochich now the reigning and defending UFC heavyweight champion. What a successful event for the UFC. UFC. UFC 203 draws over 18,000 people. 2.6 million dollar gate. It was sold out.

In my opinion, whenever Miyocic comes back, whenever that time comes, I mean, it would be weird not to have it in Cleveland. He is such a bigger star in Cleveland. And of course, you don't want to saturate the market. You don't want to dry up the well. But gosh, Steve Miochich versus Kane Velasquez, which in my opinion is the fight to make at this point, is a very big deal in Cleveland.

So they need to capitalize on that. Co-main event was just a bizarre affair, Verdume defeating Travis Brown in their rematch for Reesereto Verde, and then push-kicking Edmund Tarverdeen. I have a lot to say about that. We will talk about that. And of course, by now you know that CM Punk

was unsuccessful in his mixed martial arts debut, submitted by Mickey Gall in the first round, taken down rather quickly, defended the rear naked but ultimately tapped in the first round. And the aftermath has been interesting. It was a wild ride to cover for 21 months. And it finally culminated on Saturday night in Cleveland. A lot to discuss on that fight, of course. We have a lot to get to this week. So let me run down this week's card. And when I'm talking about card, by the way, I'm talking about show lineup. And then we'll get to our first guest of the day. At around 410, we're going to be joined by Mickey Gall.

who, I mean, this whole process from the moment he called out punk and it was captured on camera, up until the post-fight press conference, the man has just, he's hit one home run after the next. And, I mean, he is landing in New Jersey in like an hour or so. And he was willing to drive to the studio just to be here in studio to talk about the wind. That's how much this guy gets it. He will not be in studio. He'll be on the phone. I was a little worried about flights and whatnot.

but this guy gets it and definitely definitely a solid prospect. 245 will be joined by Anastasia Yankova, who is a big time prospect to herself in Beltoir. She returns to action on Friday for them. Jimmy Rivera beat your eye of favor on pay-per-view on Saturday. He suffered a very serious eye injury and he just informed me that there is a chance he may not be able to come at 225, which is when he's scheduled because he might have to have some surgery. We do hope that that's not the case and that he'll be able to join us and that he gets well soon, but we'll monitor that situation for you.

Alexander Gustafin, who picked up a big win last weekend in Hamburg. We'll stop by at 205. 145. We'll talk to King Moe. Who better than King Moe to talk about MMA and pro wrestling and the cross section between the two? So looking forward to talking to him, it's been a while. Jim Miller, who has been training with Mickey Golf for quite some time and is coming off his own big win. A couple weeks ago, we'll stop by at 125.

But first, let us go to the Skype machine and welcome in my fellow Canadian man who was in Cleveland covering the festivities at the queue. The Fight Network's own, John Pollock, joining us right now. John, how are you? I'm doing well, Ariel. I too would have driven down if you had so requested. Oh, well, thank you, John, because it's interesting. You know, we don't need to get into it, but I did invite you to go to the Rock and Roll Hall Fame with me on Saturday. And you blew me off.

But then it got weird because I saw you there with. Whiting and it was just like, oh, so I guess you guys did plan on. It just, I felt like our friendship kind of hit a bit of a roadblock there, but this is my olive branch to you. Well, when you come up to Toronto, December the 10th, it'll be on me. Okay. You and I will go to the hockey Hall of Fame, but not the museum. Right. Okay. John's alibi, by the ways, that I called it a museum. It's a Hall of Fame. Yad, yada, yada. No one except for maybe Way understand. In this business, areas are very important.

They are. They are very important. You were going to the museum, and I was not interested in the museum. Little did I know you meant the rock and roll Hall of Fame. And by the way, in my defense, I would classify that as a museum. But alas, enough about the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. It was a good time, by the way, and I do suggest

you check it out if you're ever in Cleveland. One of the reasons, John, why I wanted to have you on the show first was because if you recall, after UFC 181, that Monday, you were on the show first. And we talked about the announcement that CM Punk had signed with the UFC and that he was about to embark on this journey. So here we are 21 months later and the journey as far as his first fight is concerned is over.

So if I would ask you, okay, as far as this experiment is concerned, this whole endeavor, considering everyone involved, considering what the UFC got out of it, CM Punk and the opponent, Mickey Gall, how would you rate it? What kind of grade would you give this experiment? I think you'd have to give it a B-plus because, I can't just judge this on CM Punk. I think Mickey Gall is a huge part of this equation. I think even the most optimistic person

that back in 2014 could have seen that with CM Punk, you're not looking at something long term. This is at most we will get a handful of fights out of this guy, and it may only be one in the UFC. What they did was they matched him with someone that had

a lot of upside to him, that it wasn't just going to be a random person that was nowhere near UFC ready either. Instead, Mickey Gall comes in. He looks great, and this can be a springboard for Mickey Gall. On top of it, I mean, we talk about all the different elements that make up mixed martial arts and the business of mixed martial arts, engaging the public and gaining interest as far reaching as possible. That may be the most important thing, and that was achieved on Saturday, regardless of what the end result was. So while I don't feel CM Punk is someone you can bring back to the UFC,

That's something that can be debated, and I certainly feel with Mickey Gall, at the end of this experiment, you have something tangible that you can grow, and maybe he can grow into something much more than even we see today. A couple of follow-ups here, and I pretty much agree with everything you just said. Do you think that the UFC booked CM Punk against a too tough opponent? Do you think that in hindsight, they should have booked them against someone who was less experience or given the charisma and how he is on the mic and his skills, it was important to book him against someone exactly like Mickey Gall. I feel that was the thinking, and that's when you look at kind of comparables to this. I mean, when Brock Lesnar was first brought into the UFC, and I am not comparing

backgrounds at CM Punk and Brock Lesnar, as some commission members have. But what they did with Brock Lesnar, everyone assumed he would be facing a guy at the lowest level imaginable at heavyweight. Instead, they booked him against Frank Meir. And what that did was, we saw Brock Lesnar look good against a guy who was very credible in the fan's view. And you got the perfect situation in that Brock lost, it rejuvenated the career of Frank Mir, and Brock Lesnar was very much accepted at that point into this UFC environment, and you could build off of both guys. Their thinking at the time was probably that even if Brock cannot hang here, this could be something great for Frank Mir.

So in this case, absolutely. CM Punk was overmatched. He was put with someone way above his level, but I think that would have been the case with anyone while the UFC still had to put together a somewhat credible opponent here and not just taking somebody with a matching record to CM Punk's with no amateur experience. I think that would be too much out of their comfort zone of what they would have been comfortable doing, even if it could have led to them getting CM Punk a more favorable matchup. And obviously a big difference between Punk and Brock. Brock was, you know, we all thought

that he was going to stick around for at least a few years, which he did. And he had that background and whatnot. Do you think that this is one and done for CM Punk? I know you spoke to Dana White afterwards. Look at your crystal ball. Do you think we'll ever see CM Punk inside the octagon? My reaction is probably not. I just feel that Saturday's performance was just, it was a wake-up call. A lot of people thought this was going to make other UFC fighters who had talked about, you know, this looks bad upon them, it looks bad on the UFC. I thought this had the exact opposite effect. I think people that maybe had this Cinderella ending in mind with CM Punk got a really big reality check of just how much work this takes and the years

of expertise needed to hang at even the lowest level in the UFC. I think it gave people an even greater appreciation of what it takes to be able to hang in the UFC. So I just don't think you can bring him back. But when you look at all the different boxes you have to check off to be an elite level UFC fighter. One of those boxes, and maybe the most important, is public interest. And there's no question. There will be interest in punk fighting again. So the UFC has the option on the table, do we cut this guy because of this performance

and let him go elsewhere, that being a Bellator that you know would do a huge amount of viewers for CM Punk's second fight with someone that would probably be much closer to his competition level? Or do they look at something like they did with Chris Cyborg? they had her under contract and essentially allowed her to fight outside in Invicta and allow Punk to go to whether it be a promotion that runs on Fight Pass, a legacy, an RFA, and strictly pay him so that he does not go to Bellator. Those to me are the options that are facing them at the moment. Yeah, I kind of feel like they're going to try to push for the latter. Do you think

CM Punk is going to fight again? Do you think he's going to go through this again? I feel he will. I feel that that performance and the fact that he has put two years into this, I think if nothing else, I think he feels he will owe it to his team that got him here, that this wasn't just, hey, I got to the big show and that's it. I made my money and now I'm going to go. I don't know if he necessarily will want to end this path with that performance on Saturday.

So I very much could see him fighting again. I just don't see it happening in the UFC. I think that would be a tough one. for the UFC coming off of Saturday and kind of where where they feel now that Punk is at. Do you agree with this statement? In some ways, I feel like the UFC hit the trifecta on Saturday. They hit the trifecta because CM Punk got to live out his dream. He got the opportunity he wanted. This is what the whole thing was about him fighting the UFC. It happened. He made the walk. And let's not forget, not that long ago when he went under the knife for his back injury,

a lot of people thought he wasn't going to make the walk. So that, you know, the whole thing comes to fruition. They also, number two, they get someone like Mickey Gall, right? They get a prospect that they can now build off of and he's calling out Sage Northcutt, et cetera, et cetera. He's got a great look, great charisma and he's definitely got something. He's got skills. He's not just some guy off the street. And also they get to stick to this sort of, you know, the sanctity of the octagon. You can't just come off the street. The guy who came in off the street essentially lost to the guy who's been training for years and years and years. I feel like in the end, while at first, glass, you could say, oh, the UFC wanted CM Punk to win.

In the end, this actually worked out perfectly for them. Do you get what I'm saying? I believe, Ariel, the best outcome was a CM Punk loss. And the best outcome, I think, would have been that CM Punk at least shows people something. Like, there is something here that is a reflection of the work he put in over these last two years, that he got here, whether it was he was able to scramble and get off of his back and get back to his feet, landed a shot on Mickey Gall. I think if anything of that occurred,

and Mickey Gall still wins, it still gives everybody, because I feel the narrative would have been if Punk had won this fight, for whatever reason, it would have been more an indictment of Mickey Gall than a congratulations of what CM Punk did. I think the perfect situation would have been

that Punk at least shine somewhat in the fight before ultimately being stopped by Mickey Gall, and it would at least give the UFC the ability that they could give him a second fight. whether it's on a Fox or a pay-per-view, that's where you go from here. It was a very one-sided fight. I think it's hard to spin what that was. I think that Mickey Gall was just, you got a great showcase here for Mickey Gall,

and the best case scenario is you at least have someone that you can build off of, and he has shown evidence that you can do that. So how do you feel about Mickey Gall versus Sage Northcut? What a promo that was afterwards. I mean, the guy gets it. Like I said, I mean, he understands we have veterans, former champions, with all due respect to them, who continue to say, I'll do whatever the UFC wants, I'll take whoever the UFC wants. This guy is freaking calling his shot. And look, when you do that,

you get what you want more often than not. Do you like this idea? Because let's not forget, Sage Northcutt, even though, you know, in January 5'1-70, he's a 55er. Gall is a 170 year. But I mean, okay, you answer before I weigh in. What do you think of this idea? Are you in, or do you like something else for him? No, if the weight is the only stop. mumbling block here. I don't see Sage Northca wanting to be going up to 170 after the Brian Barbarina loss earlier this year. And the question becomes, Mickey Gall getting to 155. I'm sure that would be if he wants this fight, that's probably what needs to happen, him getting down to 155. I think it's the fight to make. And Mickey Gall is someone that anytime he was given a

microphone over the past week, any time that he had an audience, he looked at it as an opportunity. and I think more fighters need to do that and realize how important that element of the game is. Some don't really like that. That's a factor in the game, but the results are there. It is. And Mickey Galt knew that. And for a guy who's 24 years of age, he gets this business better than a lot of fighters and realizes this was an ability to get my name out there. Now, how am I going to build upon this?

Because the CM Punk chapter is over and he's looking at what is next. Yeah. So I like the fight. I hope they can make it because that's. there's a natural to put that fight together if you can figure out the weight. I agree with you. I do think he gets the CM Punk rub for the next fight or two, meaning he's the guy who beat punk. It sticks with them a little bit, and that's why I feel like it's good that they booked him punk against someone who can

continue in the UFC as opposed to some guy who's going to go back, you know, collecting garbage and was just a complete slob, whatever. Let me ask you about the main event. What an entertaining affair that was, deafening in there. What a scene in Cleveland when their own Steve Miotich, weather's the storm, winds, finishes overing with ground and pound. I feel like they need to go right back there for Miochich versus Kane. Do you agree with that or do you think that's a mistake? Is that too soon whenever it is?

Of course, he said he wants some time off. But even if it's in February or March, the guy just comes across like a star. And let's be honest, he's not the greatest interview. But when he's around his people, he just seems like a superstar. He is so entrenched with that audience. they loved Stepe Meochich and you don't always see that that kind of passion

for a fighter and especially for a Stepe Meotich where he is not a guy that comes across as someone that is working very hard to endure himself to that audience but they love him and he loves that audience so I think March

April in that time frame that's probably when he wants to come back and I think you can go back to the market at that point I mean there were 18th thousand plus in that arena. And I think a large percentage of that was for Stepe Meochich. And I think while I don't think Steepi Miochich can necessarily carry a big pay-per-view alone, I think having CM Punk added a lot of support to this as a pay-per-view, and he will deserve credit when that number comes out if it is above the figure that

Stepe Mioch and Fabrice Verdbredovedrew back in May. But Cleveland, to me, is where I would want to book this guy with Kane Velasquez. I think that is the fight to make, and probably early 2017. Do you think he tapped as Overeem insinuated and do you have any issues with the way that whole post-fight interview went down because some were saying after that, you know, it embarrassed Overeign, it wasn't the right call, et cetera. What did you make of that whole scenario? I had no problem with Joe Rogan calling on the footage.

I mean, the fact is he did interview Alistair Overeem and Alistair Overeem put out a massive allegation that they had the evidence to either corroborate with or just refute instantly on the spot. I don't have any issue with them calling on that footage. It did put Alistrovereem in a bad light because there was no tap. But I also sympathize with Joe Rogan and his hesitancy to interview a fighter right after they've been knocked out. I mean, I've thought it myself many times when there's been a brutal knockout and they insist on interviewing the loser moments after this knockout where they probably have no understanding of being in the moment and who they're speaking to, much less what they are communicating. So I would have no issue if they kind of made it a policy that a guy

that suffers a knockout like that is not subjected to an immediate post-fight interview. Let them have some time to recover. Go to a press conference. You can still get the reaction from the fighter without it being right on the spot there. But in the moment, I thought that when Al Stoverim said that, they had the footage. So I didn't really have any issue. with them calling upon that footage. Couldn't agree more. He makes the accusation. It's almost irresponsible not to go to the footage. I feel like Alster kind of wanted them, even though he may not have been in the right headspace. And I agree with Rogan as well. It's probably best not to put over him in him in that spot. I really felt bad for him. You know, my heart went out to him. He

loses his title fight and then he's kind of, you know, he's kind of just left there on this island by himself after making that call that Miocch. And you knew that they were going to give him crap for it because Miotich is the hometown guy. So let me put you on the spot. Miochich, Cain Velasquez. Who are you picking? You know, Kane Velasquez, I think that I would still have to favor Cain Velasquez. I think that wrestling would be a big part of that fight.

But Stipei Miochich, I think that he ascended to another level on Saturday. I think you looked at the Fabrice over a Doom fight and it was a very short fight, caught him with a great shot, and you got to see a bit more of him. And he had to overcome some adversity. in this fight on Saturday. I think Steepamey Ocich, heavy weights are very hard to kind of have a solid opinion up because that's a championship that bounces around so much.

It is such volatility when you're talking about heavyweights with that power. But we saw a lot from Steep A. Miocic, even in a one-round fight on Saturday, that it's a much more competitive fight today than I would have said a week ago. I think that that is a much more viable heavyweight title fight after the performance with Alistar Overeem. But I just think based on the athletics,

of Kane Velasquez and how he looked against Travis Brown, I think that vintage style of Kane Velasquez that he can get back to, I would still have to favor him in the fight. Oh, man, I love that fight. I love that matchup. It's a great fight. I'm not so sure. I'm looking forward to the interviews and the press conferences and whatnot, but between the two of them, but the fight itself is absolutely amazing. What a great fight. The co-main event was just, I mean, on a night where a pro wrestler made his UFC debut, it was like a pro wrestling match. I mean, with all the wackiness for Doom starting off with that kick. We find out after that he got a shot.

His foot was fractured. His right foot was fractured. He got a shot just a couple hours before the fight. Brown's finger injury, which was gruesome, the eye pokes, all this craziness. And then at the end, Edmund Tarverdian, who's become somewhat, like to use a wrestling term, like a heel in this sport, is sort of stepping to Verdome. Verdeem push kicks him off. What a bizarre scene, the Ohio Athletic Commission tells our Mark Romandy that no one's going to

get fined or suspended because of it? Who do you blame for that ugly incident? I mean, Edmund Tarverte and clearly, I mean, taunted him. I don't agree with Fabrice or Verdume responding by physically responding with that kick.

I didn't feel a suspension was in order for what happened. I think it was not some kick that did severe damage to Edmund Tarverteum. But you can't be doing that, especially to somebody that It's not a fighter. We are not within an actual fight at this point.

It was just an ugly look, and it's a fight that just what a bizarre roller coaster it was from how it started. And the fact that it should have been over after that finger injury, I mean, had Travis somehow come back and won that fight after that, just egregious call to continue? I mean, dare I say it would have been a travesty if he somehow won that fight, Ariel. Wow, well done. Yeah, you can't call a timeout in the middle of a fight. and Jimmy Rivera stuff. And the crowd would have been just as hostile if the fight had ended like that in the first round.

So it just, from that moment on, it just became such a bizarre fight. And then the post-fight stuff, it was just, what a weird fight it was. It was a very weird card overall. It was a weird card. But even Jimmy Rivera called the timeout. Like the eye poke was definitely happened

and has clearly injured him and it's a very unfortunate situation. But the ref didn't see it. And he had to call time. as well, which is strange in its own right. You're right. It was weird. It was entertaining in that regard. I personally blame Edmund. You can't walk up to a fighter 15 minutes after he just fought, getting punched in the face and stuff and started yelling stuff at him. I mean, you have no right to do that. And to me, it's kind of like a New York Rick, I'm stealing his comparison, but it's like someone

getting, you know, someone performing on stage, a musician and a fan jumps in there. It's like, get out of here. This is my stage. This is my area. I'm cooling down. even sitting cage side and listening to how Edmund was talking to Travis, like dressing him down loudly, it was the whole thing was bizarre. The original plan for that fight was Ben Rothwell versus Verdoom. Rothwell got injured. And from what I'm told, Derek Lewis was on the table and wanted to take that fight. That should have been the fight to make, Derek Lewis versus Verdom.

To me, I hate to say it, but Travis Brown and Edmund and that whole team has ex-pockeet at this point. I mean, it's just changed the channel stuff. and I'm sorry if I'm being too harsh right now, but it's just not a good look. You can't yell at a fighter after he just fought. I think they do Verdume versus JDS2 next. Do you like that idea? Yeah, I think that that's probably the best option.

Junior Dos Santos is ready to come back at this point late in the year. That would probably be the best fight. I mean, another option out there is a Josh Barnett. Those are kind of the fights you're looking for, but I don't think anybody is expecting Fabrice Verdum, despite his campaigning to begin the title fight out of this. And Junior Dos Santos doing that rematch. It's something that does have a backstory to it.

Yeah, and Junior was there, Cage Side, to take it all in. Great stuff, John. Appreciate the insight. We'll be looking for your coverage today on the Fight Network. Fun to cover another one with you and Wei. He even took in a local pro wrestling show on Friday. How about that? Matt Riddle, Shana Basler, Dan Severin.

Great stuff. Appreciate it, my man. Thank you. Anytime. Thanks a lot, Ariel. All right, there he is. John Pollock of the Fight Network. in Toronto. Okay, let's move along now. Bringing in our next guest. He was victorious in late August against Joe Lowe's on. What a great fight that was, a nice rematch on Fox. And he's one of those

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you're going to spend a third of your life on it. Time magazine named it one of the best inventions of 2015, free shipping and returns to the U.S. and Canada, and it's made in the good old US of A. Now, special offer for the listeners of this great program. Get $50 toward any mattress purchase by visiting www.carser.com slash MMA and using the offer code MMA. Terms and conditions apply. Now back to the show. Longtime veteran of the sport, Jim Miller joins us right now on the phone. Jim, how are you? I'm good. How are you? I'm doing great. Thank you very much for the time. So like I said, there's a lot to talk to you about, but you were one of those guys at the beginning who said that, you know, this was going to be a pretty easy night for Mickey. Was that how you expected it to go?

Yeah, yeah, you know, and nothing against, you know, Phil. But Mickey's been training for years, and he's one of those guys that, as a fighter, you knew that next generation was coming up, and he's one of those guys that's part of that next generation, even though he's only had, you know, three pro fights now. You know, at 24, he's been around the sport for a long time. When did you first meet him? I can't quite remember off the top of my head, you know. But it was, you know, it was back in the AMA days.

It was, I mean, it had to be at least five years ago. Okay, wow. You know, probably a little bit more. I think he was young when he first showed up with the pro players. So even probably like six or seven years ago. You know, we've been talking all week, and ever since this was booked that this kid seems to have it. He just gets it. He calls people out.

He's great on the mic. You know, he's got that good look. He seems to be a great prospect. He knows what he's doing in the cage. Do you recall when you started to feel that way about him? Did you ever think to yourself like, ooh, this is someone who can actually have a run in this sport? He has that potential. He gets it.

He has the package, so to speak. you know from the from a tactical standpoint and from you know athleticism it was pretty much right away you know I mean coming in

to a room that at the time had you know five or six guys fighting in the UFC and and being dangerous and being a pain in the ass for every one of us you knew

that he he had the potential if he you know could could stick around. That's probably the biggest role to get over is that resiliency of being in the sport long enough

and training long enough. And he definitely had that. Dealing with the pressure and dealing with the media, I didn't know that about him. I didn't know how he was going to take it. And then when he got the opportunity, he's handled it very well.

As one of the leaders of your team and such a long-time vet and so successful in your MMA career. Do you sense any animosity towards him that he's getting all this attention and he got this opportunity and that he's clearly going to get pushed now by the UFC? Like within the team,

do you feel like anyone kind of looks at him and says like, man, I've been doing this a lot longer than you? You don't strike me as that kind of guy, and I'm not implying you, but other people who are trying to work their way up, you know, fighting for the CFFCs and 10, do you sense that at all? Does he have to deal with that?

No, he doesn't, doesn't. You know, the guys that, you know, I've been around and he's been around, you know, that we've been training together mutually for years now. They all get it. They all know. I mean, this was, this was somebody that, me personally, I would have been more active at a fighter coming up. He had a couple of fights all through, stuff like that. But it's, It's that Charlie the chocolate factory,

you know, like, hey man, he calls out to Munk because Dan is there at his pro debut and gets the opportunity.

And it's like, man, you know, here's a kid that's coming in and, you know, I think he was making 10-10

for his first fight, which was double what I was making for my first UFC fight. So it's like, well, that kind of sucks, you know,

but times have changed, you know, and it's just an opportunity. And I'm happy to see someone as grounded and, you know, as good a person as Mickey can get it. You know, it could go to a guy like him or could go to somebody that hasn't put the work in, hasn't been around the sport that long. So, you know, I think everybody, even the guys that are in the trenches that are right there on the cusp.

and, you know, have nearly 20 fights and are ready to be in the U.S. and ready to compete at the highest level of the U.S. I understand that it's just some guys get the opportunity and, you know, when they're young, and that's just the way that it is. You know, everybody is supporting Mickey and, you know, hoping that he did, you know, he sees his opportunity. I'm assuming you watched it, right? Yes, yes, I did.

Putting aside your relationship, your feelings on Mickey, as someone who has literally bled inside the octagon, you've been through the ups, the downs, you know, you've knocked on that title shot door. I mean, you have essentially done it all in this sport. What were your feelings seeing CM Punk make the walk, seeing him in there? Were you disgusted by? Were you bothered by it? Did you think it was a black eye on the sport? And then how did you feel after hearing him on the mic and everything? Did it change at all? Um, you know, I didn't, I didn't feel, uh, you know, insulted by it or anything like that. I, uh, he's, he's on the other end of that, that opportunity. You know, here's a guy that he, he has a name for himself, you know, I mean, is the main event at at WrestleMania, whatever. So, I mean, he's, he's got a name, he's got a following. Um, on on the part of like hey step not to do it there are there are people that would do it there are people that wouldn't do it and um you know he's one of the ones that actually made the walk and didn't throw up on his way to case so you know i i i tip my hat to him uh there

there are people that would do it there are quite a few people that would uh given the opportunity would step in there um but yeah you know he handles that very well it's it's uh it's unforgiving you know and there's nothing like in your ass kick in front of a couple million people to you know to make the hardest man crumble a little bit

and he handled it very well you know so it's just one of those things you know I you see you see a little bit of you know flack on his way and and

he's not the one who wrote up a contract that's right you know that's a great point I mean he talked to Dana White and Dana said yeah let's do it and and uh And he did his part. So there's really, you know, I don't, I knew, I knew the way that it was going to go.

You know, it was, it is, it's, like I said, it's unforgiving. It's a legitimate sport. The times have changed. It's not guys that fight in bar rooms coming into the UFC and, and making a name for themselves. You know, it takes work. And like I said, Mickey's put in that work. Literally minutes ago, the news came out that his disclosed pay was $500,000. Do you have a problem with that?

You know, I mean, I'm jealous. I'd like to be making that kind of money. Sure. Have you ever made $500 in disclosed pay? No, no, no. You know what? I've been scratching and clawing my way to where I am right now. And, you know, it's frustrating.

that, you know, I could have two dozen fights in the UFC and be in, you know, multiple fight of the nights and stuff like that and headline a few cards and not being making that kind of money, not being able to provide as comfortable life for my family as I'd like to if I was making that money. So it is frustrating, yeah, but, you know, it's just one of those things. I got to earn my way up there, you know, and do it. So, try it.

One last thing on this whole experiment, Mickey called out Sage Northcutt. And since you were so accurate with your prediction the first time around, do you like that fight for him? And do you think that it bodes well for him? Yeah, I do. you know, um, Mickey's a,

he's a talentistriker. We, we, we haven't done to see much for the inside the oxygen, but he's, he's creative and, and,

and I think he could handle himself on the feet with, with Sage, and, you know, he's, he's a legitimate, legitimate,

legitimate brown belt on, on the ground, uh, and I've seen him give quite a few black belts trouble, and he gives me trouble, man, he's a,

he's a pain in the app. Um, his, his body type, and his, aggression on the ground are, you know, it makes it difficult. I have to be on my game, you know, to get the better of them. Wow.

Yeah, you know, I think he goes to the ground with stage, and it's another dominant submission in the first round. You know, obviously, Sage is very dangerous on his seat. He's very unorthodox and can throw some crazy things, but I think it's a perfect matchup for Mickey, and it's like, you know, Yeah, do it. Take the fight and continue the momentum. Right. Okay, so now talking about you, because your story is so fascinating to me, you've now won two in a row, and it seemed like, you know, after the Kiaza fight in December

and then the Diego Sanchez fight, people were starting to kind of, you know, write the obituary of your career, but you have turned it around in a very big way, and then you come out with the revelation that you were suffering from Lyme disease, and that was really a feeling. affecting you. Where are we at now with that? Is that something that you can just shed or do you have that, you know, for the rest of your life? And how did you contract Lyme disease? You know, I, I live in, like, it's not suburban, it's more like subrural New Jersey. You know, I mean, we're rural, but we're not like super rural. You know, my, my backyard butts up against cow pasture and, you know, there's deer everywhere.

and I've got dogs. I spend time outside. So I deal with ticks every year. You know, I haven't had too many bite me, but it's just one of those things that now they're finding that the tick only has to be attached for like 15 minutes. And if you get the bull's eye, you've basically won the lottery. But, yeah, you know, it's one of those things where they don't know much about Lyme. and it has a lot of co-infections, and it can just show with so many different things,

and that was kind of the issue with it, is I just felt like I had been training for a long time. You know, my knees started to hurt. I was getting, you know, I never suffered from low back pain all of a sudden I was dealing with low back pain, and then numbness and tingling, which I've had some neck injuries in the past. I dealt with those things. It was just, yeah, it was just, it just slowly slid downhill and got worse and worse and worse. And, you know, I trained for the Kietz fight and was training, and had a normal training camp, you know, getting in, you know, a decent amount of training sessions.

And I was coaching wrestling for the, you know, my kids and stuff. So I was doing a lot, and, you know, I felt like I wore myself down to a nub, and it never really kind of pulled out of it after the fight, and then went into the camp for Diego and just never, never got going. You know, it was, I was having a lot of arthritic symptoms, basically. You know, I'd wake up in the morning, some mornings, and pretty much not be able to move for, you know, 15 minutes. Just have to kind of lay there and slowly stretch it out and kind of deal with it. You know, and every time I'd go up and down a set of stairs, I'd be grabbing onto that handrail or going up and down sideways because it didn't hurt my knees at that. You know, and I thought it was just kind of the wear and tear. but we did some blood test before the fight and it came, you know, came back to that

line. So, you know, I went on Dr. Cycling right after that fight. I've been on it since, you know, the second week in March. And it's one of those things where, you know, now you're dealing with being on antibiotic for a while, so that kind of sucks. Is that for life? No, no. some people have lime and they go on antibiotics for a while and what ends up happening is

antibiotics technically don't even kill the Lyme disease. The bacteria, they just slow it down so that your body can beat it. So you kind of have to just let your body beat it. But there are quite a few people that they have continual bouts and they'll have it, you know, every couple of years and other people get it. and it never comes back again. But, yeah, it's an epidemic, and it really doesn't get the publicity that it should, in my opinion.

And I'm not just saying that because I have it. But, you know, it's, yeah, it's one of those things. At least now I know what it feels like when I get it. Because even while on the antibiotics, you still kind of have these little dips where you feel like crap, and it'll last for a day or two, and just, you know, feeling really run down, joint hurt and stuff like that. And it's a, I know what it is now.

So I'm a lot more comfortable with that. I'm a lot more comfortable with the idea of, okay, well, even if it doesn't completely go away and I have to deal with it in another couple of years, at least I know the feeling now. Right. Where it was a miserable, like, an absolutely miserable, like, eight, nine months. uh you know i mean it started probably in in the summer of last year where it started to like just that's when i started to really get the symptoms and and uh yeah i was like it was rough but you know everybody everybody's got to deal with something you know sure and uh

if this is all i have to deal with then then so be and i'll take it and and and be thankful that that it's only this you know because there there are other fighters and there are other people that deal with way worse, you know, than feeling the symptoms of my disease and fighting with it. You know, so we'll see how it goes and we'll, you know, we'll keep monitoring it. And, yeah. So when you're fighting now, do you feel like your old self or not quite back 100% yet? I do. I do feel like my own self.

Okay. You know, one of the things that it seems. to affect me was, for some reason, it was just my explosiveness just wasn't there. I didn't feel as explosive as I had. You know, and that might have been from, I mean, even when I was training more consistently, but, you know, towards the Mark fight, I wasn't training as consistently. So, but yeah, I just didn't feel like I had as much pop. And, you know, because I was kind of also I mean, even if I was warmed up and had been training for an hour, if I stood up, my knees were hurt, and I'd stand up like an old man, I'd post on my knees, and I'd groan, and I'd groan,

and it didn't matter how warm I was. It still hurt. So I think I was kind of, you know, compensating for it and not getting, you know, getting into those deep scrambled and stuff like that where I was. was putting myself in spots where, you know, even if you're healthy and feeling good, you might back yourself up. But, you know, it's just the way that it is. But I do feel, I feel way better.

I, I'd never seen anything on it, but I think it was affecting my metabolism as well. Oh, wow. I had a really tough time with weight cuts from, you know, starting last April. I probably contracted it in late 2014. So last April I had an awful weight cut and then just the next three after that. Even though I was trying to really take my weight down and make it easier on me, I was still having tough weight cuts. And then since I've been on the medication and feeling better, the last two weight cuts had been the easiest in my UFC career. Wow.

This last one that I had for the August flight was probably the easiest weight cut I've ever had. because it was just everything was dialed in. I showed up a fight week, like seven pounds over, then did all the right things leading up to it, where even when I was young and I was only seven pounds, I was just beating my ass and sweating it off and running it off and stuff like that. Now it's just knowing all the right things to do to manipulate it,

it just knelt it off and it was a piece of cake. Any idea after the two wins now in the back end of 2016, UFC, 200 over Takenori Gomi, the win over Joe Lozahn, which was a fantastic fight in late August. Any idea who's next? And if not, will you, dare I say, pull a Mickey Gall and call out your next opponent? No, you know what? It's never been my style.

You know, I just want to fight. And, you know, I definitely want to get one in by the end of the year. You know, that was one of those fights where, you know, with Joe that I was a little more banking. up coming out of it. You know, my shin's still pretty swollen. So I'm not quite ready to hop right back into a training camp. But, yeah, I definitely want to get another one in by the end of the year, and I don't really care who.

I don't really care where and I don't really care when. You know, when Joe Silva emails me, he basically tells me who I'm fighting. Not really a question. Not anything like that. Like, hey, you're fighting this guy on that date. Yes, sir. And that's the way it goes. So, you know, I'll let them know when I'm ready. All right. Well, soon that is going to change because Joe is leaving, but I get your point. Happy to hear that everything's doing much better and that you're feeling better.

And congrats on the recent success. Appreciate your time, Jim. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you having me. All right, there he is. Jim Miller stopping by. Okay, so let's go from one great New Jersey fighter to another. Very thankful that Jimmy Rivera is able to squeeze us in. He has a very busy afternoon. So let's get to him right away. Jimmy Rivera, who had a massive win over your eye, Faber on Saturday night, is on the phone. Jimmy, are you there? Yeah, how you doing? Hey, man, thank you so much for joining us.

So from what I understand, are you at the doctor right now? Yeah, I'm at the eye doctor right now kind of waiting on being, waiting on to be seen. Okay, so, and again, thank you so much. And if you have to go, we appreciate your time and understand. And, you know, I really appreciate you just coming on after everything you've been through. How are you feeling right now? How's the eye? The eyes only bother me right now.

I have still very blurred vision and like a line and like a dot on my eye right now that I can't really see well. So I'm wearing a little patch. So I don't really expect it was a light or pretty strain on it so it could try to heal until I see the doctor. And you weren't able to fly home. Do you have to drive home? We didn't want to take the precaution flying. So we ended up driving home. I was going to drive home anyway with my family.

And, you know, if it wasn't going to be a loss, I told my family and my friends already, it's going to be a long drive home because I'm going to be stopping everywhere and wanted to eat. How long did it take to drive home from Cleveland? It's not bad. It took about, like, six, seven hours. It wasn't too bad of a drive. We had to drop a couple of people off on the way, so it took a little longer than that. But it was a good drive home.

So what do you think the injury is? I know you spoke to our own Mark Romandi, and it sounded pretty serious. What do you know about the state of the injury? Right now. there's a scratch that could use stitches on the white part of my eye, and then they said my retina's not detached, but there's a really bad crack or bruised behind the retina. So like a lot of it didn't make sense. I saw like a residency optomagist, I think he was, I believe.

So, you know, I was like, I'm going to see a specialist. So I'm here waiting for the specialist now to really see and get the, you know, the answers and let them take x-rays to see really what's going on because, uh, uh, uh, you know, it wasn't as clear when I was in the ER. And this happened in the third, right? Yeah, it happened right in the third, about two minutes sitting in the third round. When you, when you were poked initially, did you think you'd have to stop? Like, was it that bad?

It was black. Like, the whole, once I got poked until about 10, until after they, after I got out, was Rogan, speaking to Rogan, I started getting a little vision back, like half of it. Like, from half down, I could see. very, very blurry and half up was black. And the whole last three and around it was black. Like, I was nervous. Like, I knew it was up ahead and it was in the cars.

I kept asking the ref how much time was left. I'm like, trying to go with his decisions in my head. I'm like, if I say no, like, if I don't want to continue, it's going to be no contest. I actually spoke to the doctor. It was ringside afterwards in the back? I'm like, was I close on the numbers guessing? She was like, you're like, will I write in the numbers? She was like, you were pretty close because she was putting up her fingers.

I think she put three off, and I think I guess three, but then she put two up. I said one. Wow. I was just guessing. I was just like, you know what? I'm close. This is, you know, a lifetime opportunity. I was like, I said, I'm going to go in there.

I'm going to finish the site. I'm not going to give up. I'm going to keep it going. And, you know, if I can't think the more, because I want to have whatever, it's something I've got to do. If that would have happened in the first round, do you think you would have been able to continue? I think I would have continued, even if it would have happened in the first. I waged, as I was there, I mean, I was waging my options in my head of what to do. And I was just like, I can't, I can't say no, I can't.

I'm like, no, I'm not wanting to give up. And the ipoc happened whether it was intentional or not. You know, it happened into something I had to fight through at the time. Do you think it was intentional? I don't know. I think it was a little bit. I feel like, because, you know, he didn't even not hit me again, but that kind of grace. It wasn't that bad.

He didn't really say sorry afterwards. or pound, you know, like, if you hit someone in the balls or, yeah, I told him my accident, and I just started with me on my back, it's your pound or stuff like that. He's really standing, so I don't know what, you know, if it was or wasn't, you know, it was a little suspect. I don't really carry on at this point. I got the W. I got the win over someone that I grew up watching, you know what I mean? I grew up watching him as a teenager kid, and it's unbelievable fighting.

And I was telling myself, I'm going to get into it. I'm not going to have, you know, that little star struck me this. I'll go in there and do my name. in the first round I felt that little star I felt that little star-strand I was like wow I'm fighting your right now this is crazy this is fun and then I was really enjoying myself because

like I know I know I should have done better and that I really wanted to pour it on but with my eye not trying to make an excuse but with my eye it was really freaking hard to I couldn't believe how right eye dominant I am when I'm using stuff so I was like wow this is hard to fight with the left eye it's at the right eye

and throwing stuff like I was throwing stuff and I was like I think it's hidden oh my god one hit, that one didn't hit. I'm like, wow. But I'm not going on that first round, I was like, wow, I'm like, I'm fighting in right now. I didn't want that to happen. My coach is like, don't let that happen, you know.

The only got to get like a little search I thought I did. And, you know, it's my fault. But I was like, at the time, like, wow, he's throwing stuff. He's not hitting it. I'm moving. I'm like, this guy's ring number two in my head, going in my head and fight him. He's right number two, and I'm dodging everything. And he's not going to take me down. Like, this is freaking awesome. Like, I can't believe where I'm at as a fighterer. you know, and you have helpful arcane.

I love this idea that you were having this, you know, internal monologue throughout the first round. You're fighting this living legend. So considering how you felt about him at the time and what you sort of implied about the low-blown, the eye poke, have your thoughts on Faber changed after fighting him? Yeah, I think if I, if we were aware of the fight against, you know what I mean?

It would be a way different fight. You know what I mean? It would be like me not, like, just going forward a non-stop throwing. Like, I had an answer for every single thing. I watched the fight, and I'm like, you know, my uncle said I did enough that you needed to get the win, but I personally think I could have done more. I'm always a perfectioner.

So, like, the next day I was watching the fight, I was looking over. I'm like, what do I need to fix with? Like, I was, I'm never happy. You know what I mean? Even sometimes you get a submission or you get a knockout, just always things you want to fix to make yourself better. Now, obviously, I was happy with the win, but I know my reforms could have been better. So I want to fix that and move up

And I'm looking forward to the next point Once I get this eye situation done And hopefully everything works out well I'm getting right back into training camp Just only been stopping right now is the eye You know, it's my sight I was scared as hell because you go on three minutes I'm fighting three the last three minutes

And I can't see it in my right eye There's no sight Like I didn't even know my eye was open Like when I was the eye doctor She said no your eye was open I'm like it's open right now Because I don't see anything I thought was closed shut

That was your 21st pro fight Have you ever experienced anything close to that before? Was an eye poke like that? No. No. I've never got that. We've got a hit in balls once or twice. That happens, you know what I mean?

But the eye poking all the series, I was like after the fight, I was like, I was scared. He's like, you'll be fine, you'll be fine. My coach, but I'm like, I'm scared, man. I don't want to lose my vision. Yeah, and, you know, the crazy thing is, is that I don't know if you saw this when you were rewatching it, but you kind of had to tell the ref, right? It's almost like you had to call time because he didn't notice it at first. Did you pick that?

Did you pick up on that? I didn't pick up on it as much. So, so focused on what I was doing in a way. But I remember, like, the fact that watching and calling time because, you know, I saw what happened in the fence was before a rat, sorry. And, like, when he hit me with that poke, I was like, holy shit, that was it. I jumped back, and I was like, yeah, I go backo. And I'm, you know, I was surprised that he didn't see it because the way he was

throwing that left hand, his fingers were open. It was like a slap. It wasn't, you know, a hook punch. You know, even if it was a hook punch, you know, usually you have your hand or closed, so it was a slap. He did it once or twice in previous rounds, and I'm like, that's why I'm suspect of that whole high poke and, you know, his kick to the balls. And that happened, I jumped back because everyone was all happened with Francisco Lillera and got eye poke right away. And it was kind of hard to see it Francisco because he did exchange. He threw like a, like a slap cross punch.

and it was like, you know, I called it, and that's when I was like to the ref right away. Yeah, and that referee, by the way, was Gary Copeland, who I don't think had a particularly great night. He also reffed the Fabrice Re Doom, Travis Brown, fight, which was all kinds of wackiness. You probably weren't watching because you were dealing with your eye. What's going through your mind,

and I don't even know if you can hear them when they're booing you? They're booing both of you, and you guys are fighting your ass off, you're fighting, you know, I don't think it was a bad fight at all. I mean, there's just two really great fighters meeting in the center of the cage, and at that point, you know, later on, you're dealing with your eye and you're hearing booze. What are you thinking at this point, if anything? I'm just focused on when I have to do and listen to my coaches.

I hear the booze, but it's not something that I want to go to war sometimes. And sometimes you just don't get that. Like if you're a fighter, you know, you don't get that. It's just so technical sometimes. And that's what happens. Some fights are very technical. Some fight the guys just coming in brawling and you're going to, you know, like Peter Moon, that's why I phony came in brawling.

and I wasn't going to back off from that. You know what I mean? And there were some times I went in to try to, you know, Tadurai hit my combinations and he would jump back. So it was kind of like catmous in a way a little bit, you know what I mean? So I had some difficult times hitting two coming in because, you know, he used his movement as hopping back and his unique movement to, you know, get out of range

so he wouldn't get hit. So it happens, you know what I mean? You can't win him all the time to pass, you know? That was Faber's 43rd program. fight. He's 37. Never in his career has he lost two in a row up until now. Are you of the opinion that he is officially slowing down? I know his last fight was against Dominic Cruz, but what do you make from a guy who clearly has watched him for a long time, who respects him as a fighter? Now that you've been in there with him, do you think that he is starting, you know, to go down

as far as his skills are concerned? You know what? I don't think so. You know what? He said one time an interviewer and I watched all his interviews and he was like you know Jim and I said something about me evolving I don't understand that you know I'm through the world and I said involved and I'm not involving as a fighter getting better as a fighter you know what I mean if you ever watch your right favors he's been

the same person from his very first fight his last fight with me was his what he throws and what he does he does the same stuff all the time where you see other people like he get a little show who has done little stuff and gotten better you know what I mean and and it has the perfect

expected his striking or like Dominic Cruz who's you know smart fighter he does games to set you up so you throw stuff very very smart fighter you know what I mean like so when I said evolved and I meant involved like your eyes always had the same

you know offense it's always been the same offense no right hand I'll go for the single leg the double leg you know great elbows then the same offense so when you know that offense and you practice that for two three months in you're ready for it you know so you know with that said I was

ready for everything he had to draw at me. And I was very surprised in the first round that he wasn't going to wrestle me more. I heard it. And she said that he couldn't get in on cake downs. It was just too hard. And I was super surprised. You know what I mean? I thought he was going to unrush some cake downs on me.

Yeah, that definitely seemed to ruffle his feathers a little bit. He mentioned that in the scrum on Wednesday. And speaking of that, I mean, you were in a very important fight on the main card. And yet you weren't at the media day. You weren't at the press conference. He was at the open workouts. Did you feel like, okay, here's this big opportunity. By far the biggest name you've ever fought.

You've now won, I think, 19 in a row. It was 18 going into it. But yet you weren't getting that attention that a fight like this usually gets. Like, what did you feel about the way you were being pushed going into this fight? I think I'm still underrated. I think people are like, oh, yeah, whatever.

You know what I mean? And I feel like that all the time. And you know what? It's cool. I love to be underrated. Like, these kids come in. and then who's ranked 12 just beat the number two seat. You know what I mean?

I might be underrated to people, but I know at least to the fighters, the people who are ranked in the band-a-way division, they know I'm here, and they know I want to be the champ, you know? And it's fine by me. I mean, he got an open workout. He got a media day.

You know, we were joking. Like, we had a wait at a restaurant for an hour. I was like, oh, two-r-starved. I would have to wait. I have, like, five-minute weeks and sit down. But we waited for an hour. So it's all that we joke about it. I don't let it get to get to me at all.

It doesn't bother me. I just want to keep moving forward, and I want to get that title shot. Are you confident now that the UFC is going to get behind you and push you a little bit? I don't, to be honest, I don't, you know, I don't know. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. It's awesome. I just, you don't want to keep moving forward as long as they to keep letting me move forward. I have no problem.

So who makes sense for you next? Do you have any idea? Hopefully you get through this and you can come back in, you know, a good amount of time. Do you have any idea what makes sense for you as far as your next opponent is concerned? I wouldn't be surprised his teethage at Dillushal. I heard Cody and Cruz are going to end up fighting soon. I heard they're probably going to be in the works in December. I wouldn't be surprised, you know, Cruz,

and which, you know, you didn't have to be a brain surgeon to realize, you know, Cruz's been talking a lot of smack. Cody's on a big hype. You know what I mean? Cruz wants to fight that and wants to get some, you know, bigger bucks, and they've been talking snack back and forth that, you know, they want to fight. They're looking forward to it.

I think it's going to happen soon. You know, I mean, so it's kind of obvious besides of whatever. I've heard from other people and fighters, but they're looking worse. It's looking like I think it's going to be probably T.J. Dillashaw next. Unless Brian Kerri, when I want to fight me because, you know, I beat your eye. Anything you get beat me or something. I don't know. I mean, there's been a couple guys ducking me, and I can't say, I can't do anything about it. It's crazy.

I thought getting in the UFC, no one ducked me. They have to take the fight. Nah, it's not like that at all. Wow. So, you know, I had my fair share. You know, they offered me, you know, one time, time I was on me. And I said, yeah, I'll take it. I just don't want to fight in Brazil.

I've been in Brazil once I fought a Brazilian. And I had my one experience. It was good. We'll fight anywhere. That kind of fell through. They offered me Sterling Barn and Carraway again. That fell through. Mazazaki was supposed to fight him, but he said no to me.

He said yes to Cody. You know, that fell through. Then they offered Caraway again. Careway said no. And then I had the option of these four. And I had the four of the top of his favor. I was like, of course, I want to fight you by a favorite. I'm like, that's a great fight.

And that's how that fight came about. Wow. And I knew Carol was going to say no. I knew. So Sean Shelby already knew. You know, everybody, he wanted to see what's going to happen, and just in case. And he said, you know, if he doesn't want to take it again, there's this four of the guys who was your route to fight.

And I think when I said favor right away, he was a little taken back. And I was like, it's the most sense. It makes the most sense. You know what I mean? I don't think Cheryl was going to take it. He was another option. Dotson, yeah, he's at 10, but I'm like, I want to move up. You know what I want to get to the top.

That's good, but favor's a legend. Favor's great. You know what I mean? So I want to fight favor. It's still crazy to me, and the rankings haven't updated, but that you were 12th going into this is just mind-blowing, considering your winning streak and how impressive it is. So is it fair to assume that if you had it your way, Dillishaw would be your top choice? Yeah, I guess.

You know what I mean? That would be my top choice because, you know, you got Cody and Cruz, and I think, you know, Dillisho really wants a rematch, but Cruz doesn't want it. and then, you know, the U.S. He's not giving them right away. And I figured, you know, if I fight Dillishel, that basically puts us as a number one contender. So whoever gets that win off of Cruz and Cody,

I basically fight, you know, I'll be Dillishel, then that gives me the opportunity to be able to be the number one contender and be able to fight him, you know what I mean? Who do you like in that fight, by the way? Cody or Cruz? You know what? I think Cody, if he connects that right hand of his, but Cruz is a, you know, he's a very,

very smart fighter with everything he does. You know, I've seen him. I watch him so much. You know what I mean? He's in my class. It's very important for me. I study him. And he does stuff to beat you. He does all these things. And I feel like a lot of people haven't fought him the correct way. And there's a certain way you have to fight him. A lot of guys haven't done that yet. They'll show up a little bit of it. But I think, I don't know. I mean, I think I'm going to have to go with Cruz on that fight. Nothing gets Cody. But Cody's a cool, nice guy. Got to meet him. He said, congratulations me. appreciate it. But I think it would be

Cruz on that site. Unless Cody decides to have a completely different game plan what the Rai did, then I think Cody will win but right now I have to stick with Cruz. Okay, so to wrap this up and again, thank you so much for squeezing us in. What is your gut? Do you have any idea what the doctor, do you have a

sense what he will say? And if you do have to have surgery, how serious is that as far as long-term vision is concerned? You know, I don't know. If I had surgery, if it's a retina or something, it might be a month or two months. I don't know how bad. I'm hoping it's not that bad.

I'm hoping he's saying it's just keep resting and use that antibiotic. Maybe you need a stitch here because I had a cut in the eye itself and the white part. But I'm not sure. I'm hoping. I'm staying positive. I'm hoping it's like it's not going to be bad. Another week was to patch. Keep putting drops and you'll be okay.

As a day has gone by, like the site hasn't gotten better, but not great. You know what I mean? So it's still a little blur. So, well, a lot of it blur. But I'm hoping that, you know, with time, it'll be better. Has the UFC been cool? Have they been helping you? Yeah, they're great. They're great. You know, I went to the ER.

They said, whatever doc, you want to go to, just let me know, giving the information will take care of it. And I said, awesome. You know, I appreciate that. And they've been great. You know what I mean? I can never say anything bad about them. They're great.

You know what I mean? They're there for you to get hurt and stuff like that. So they've been really great through this process. Okay. Well, I wish you the best, man. And please keep us updated, whether it's social media or any other way. I hope everything goes well with the doctor over there in Jersey and that you can avoid surgery and get back soon.

And again, congratulations on a huge win. What a performance that was. And especially when you consider that, you know, the third round, most of it was without an eye, even more impressive. So kudos to you, my man. Great stuff. And looking forward to you continuing this streak. Thank you.

Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. And once I know what happens, I'll show you at Texas. I'll let you know. Oh, you're the man. Thank you, Jimmy. All the best. You too.

All right, there he is. Jimmy Rivera. Massive win for him on Saturday night. Improves his record to 20 and 1. 20 and 1, Jimmy Rivera is. Last time he lost a fight, November of 2008. His second pro fight. Split decision.

That's amazing. Has wins now over Marcus Brimidge, Pedro Munoz, Uri Al-Kantara, and now Uriah Faber at UFC 203. Wish him the best hope that his eye injury isn't all that serious. Let's move along to our next guest. It's been a minute since we've talked to Alexander Gustafsson. He is coming off a very big win over Jan Blakowitz in Hamburg, Germany. That was last weekend and wanted to catch up with him and see what he's thinking about the win.

So now he's joining us on the phone. Alex, are you there? I'm here. I'm here. How are you, my friend? I'm very good. How are you? I'm doing great.

Thanks for asking. Congratulations on the win. So, okay, there's a lot to talk to you about. But first, just since we're talking all the CM Punk stuff, did you watch UFC 203? Yeah, I watched a little bit of it. What did you think of the CM Punk fight? Were you, as a veteran of the sport,

you know, former title contender, were you bothered by it? Are you okay with it? Do you have any thoughts on it? Well, you know, I guess that, you know, he did what, you know, he could do that fight, and he ended up with a loss in that fight, but it's hard to say anything because he didn't see that much of the fight.

So I don't know, it's one of those things he can just get better and try to learn from it and get better. Are you bought, like if they brought him back for a second fight, would you be bothered by that? You know, because you had to work up the ranks and all the people in the UFC go through, you know, you go through,

different organizations, do you think that it's bad or do you understand what he brings to the table, pay-per-views, things like that? Well, you know, I'm not, I'm not that, I don't know that much about his background and in what he did before in the wrestling part, but, you know, I think, you know, I don't, I don't, I don't think too much about it. I think he's just, you know, he's here now and he's competing for the USC and I think you know you know given another fight and and let's see what it got. All right, fair enough. Okay, so around nine days after your win, what do you think of it?

Have you watched the fight and if so, how do you feel about your performance? Yeah, I watched the fight right after action to the fight and, you know, I wasn't done. I'm not too pleased with my performance. I win is always a win, but, uh, uh, uh, I'm. You know, it's, you know, I don't know if it was, I, it's just, you know, I've been away for a time from Delta gone. I don't know, but, you know, my timing in my strike, just striking just didn't really, I didn't have my timing really, and I couldn't really get my distance. You know, Black Creek is a really tough guy, and he's a really good striker, and, and, but, you know, you know, I took one to give one. And I, and that's not, that's not how I want to fight. You know, I want to, I want to put a, put a, put a clean,

him, but I didn't, I didn't manage to really reach him. So, you know, I just took the ground, took the fight to the ground and worked from the top. Was he tougher than you expected him to be? No, you know, I knew he

was tough. So it wasn't a surprise. It was just, you know, I knew I had a better reach than him. I'm taller than him, and so, you know, I've been working on my striking. You know, I lost for this fight. you know, my striking overall with knees, kicks and everything, but I just couldn't get my distance in.

And from that first couple of minutes in the first round, I'd just like, you know, let's take it to the ground. And, you know, I really needed this win. I didn't want to take any risks at all or, you know, anything like that. And, you know, Brakovich, he's a tough guy, and he's been in the game for a very long time. So, you know, he has his, he's very good in his technique. So I just knew that, you know, I'm bigger, I'm stronger.

and I just wanted to secure that win. You know, a guy you've trained with for several years, Dominic Cruz loves to talk about how ring rust isn't a real thing, how it doesn't affect you. But, you know, this was your first fight in 11 months. Do you think it affected you? Like, is everyone different? And maybe not for him, but for you,

you just couldn't get comfortable out there? Well, you know, it's hard to say what it was. It was just one of those days I couldn't get my distance in at all. You know, I've connected some punches. He connected some punches through from a weird angle. And, you know, it was never a danger or anything like that. It was just, you know, I don't like to fight, you know, give one to take one. That part of the, I don't want to fight a fight like that.

I just want to, like, you know, put a good, good clinic in. I want the fight goals as I'm planning to have it. And I just felt that, you know, in the first couple of minutes in the first round, that, you know, he just caught me with his weird, weird punches from weird angles. And, yeah, that was just it. And, you know, I just, you know, decided to work on top with my ground and pound and secure the win, basically. So, ring rust, I don't know, it could be, could be not.

You know, it's hard to say. Did he seriously hurt you at any point in the fight? No, not at all, no, no. It was all good. It was just like, you know, he just caught me with the, with, with, with, with, with, with, some of those punches and that was basically it. I was never in a danger on my feet. In the days and hours before the fight, how was your confidence? Because you mentioned, you know, you just wanted to get the win and didn't want to take many risks. And I can certainly

understand that. The last time you won was against Jimmy Manoa in March of 2014. Were you starting, like, did you feel, were you feeling that pressure of the two-fight losing streak and not winning in a long time? What were you thinking? Yeah, well, a little bit, maybe, because It's been a tough year for me. Everybody knows that. I had a, you know, I got stopped here in Stockholm against Anthony Johnson. And then I had a split against D.C. So it was pretty, it was pretty, you know, I had some pressure on.

And, you know, I just knew that, you know, however this fight goes, I have to win it, no matter what. I don't care if I win a submission, carry a knockout. or a decision. I just needed a win to, you know, to start, to start, you know, from scratch and start with something good with a win in, you know, and, yeah, so I just took it from there. So a little bit pressure maybe, been away for a couple of, you know, for almost a year, you know, everything combined maybe, you know, it affected me a little bit, I think. Yeah, in a weird way, even though you fought for the belt twice,

I feel like there might have been more pressure on you going into this fight than in those title fights. Yeah, maybe, you know, because I've been away for so long and I had two losses coming from two losses. And also, you know, I just knew that, you know, I needed this win, basically. Nothing else is accepted at all. I just, you know, I need that flow, that good feeling of winning and getting that flow in. you know, you feel good fighting, you feel like you're winning the rounds. It's a special feeling you're looking for.

And, you know, I felt that in this last fight, and, you know, my confidence was there, and I just felt, I felt calm on the whole fight. I could do this for like 10 rounds. So is it... The conditioning was there and my strength. So it's safe to say you feel like you got your confidence back? You're back on track now?

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I feel confident. I feel like I'm back on track. You know, it was a good fight with Bukovych, but, you know, I'm at a gym training, and I just want to be, become, like, getting my business in and working on everything to become just better fighter and get ready for, you know, whatever it's next. I have to be prepared. I remember you did.

I don't want to wait a year again. And we'll get to that in a second, but I remember that you did an interview with a Swedish outlet several months ago, and you said you were going to take some time off. that you were considering retiring, but then after you said you weren't really considering. Now can you tell us the story? Did you actually consider retiring after the D.C. fight? No, not at all. Not at all. Not at all. You know, it was just one of those things when you lose, you know, I don't even think I actually

said retiring. I just, you know, I came from a loss. I really closed decision, close to a win. And, you know, I was just pissed, you know, because I didn't. basically, you know, I was just, it just lost a fight, so I was really pissed. And maybe I said something about, like, maybe I wanted to take a break or something like that, never retired. And, you know, you say something and something else come out, you know, like from media. So it is what it is, but I never considered retiring. And, you know, it wouldn't happen because it's just one of those things you just say, you can't just say, you know, because it's so much harder to really do it. what I do, this is what I'm good at. It's nothing that you just quit one day and then, and, you know,

so, so I never, I wasn't even close to retire. There was a video that came out after of you guys in the hotel and he was holding some beers and you were holding beers. It was just a beautiful thing and kind of reminds us why we love the sport so much, the professionalism that you fighters show. What did you guys say to each other? And have you ever been, I know there's that famous picture of you and John at the, the hospital, but this one was a little different with both of you guys. Have you ever been in a situation where you just fought a guy and there you are drinking with him after? Well, this was one of the first times, I think.

You know, like I said, John, it's a great guy. He's a very humble, humble guy with, you know, a great sportsman and, you know, he represents the sport very well. And we know, we train a few times together, so we know each other a little bit. and, you know, right now, I consider him as a friend, you know, because, you know, we talk after the fight and we're probably going to end up training a little bit together, too. So, so it was a really amazing feeling to come to the hotel, and, you know, he just, you know, welcome me with a bear, so, yeah, it was a great thing.

Did he say anything to you? No, yeah, he would just, you know, he just, you know, said it was. It was a great fight and, you know, and, you know, likewise. And then he, we talked about training in the future. And so I'm very excited to see what, you know, if it comes down and, you know, and we can train. This is kind of a theme for you. Now the third time maybe that you fight a guy and then you train with him, right? Phil Davis and then Jimmy Manoa and now him.

What is it? Yeah. Why does that keep happening? Well, I don't know. It's just, I guess it's, you know, it's kind of, well, it's pretty normal because it's so close for us, you know, to train with each other. And, you know, it's, you know, Sweden, England, and we have Poland. It's kind of small countries if compared to the U.S. So, you know, if you can play together and get something good from it, so why not? Okay, so what about next? What do you, what are you thinking about for your next fight? I don't have any type of, you know, I'm just waiting and see what they want, who they want me to fight and win, basically.

So I'm ready to go whenever I'm training right now and no injuries, nothing. So I'm very excited to see what's next actually. I didn't hear anything yet or anything new. So I'm just waiting here and let's see what happened. Do you have a preference? No, not really. want to take one further time. Let's see what happens now. I've had a good fight with John Blakovich, and now let's see what happens. I just waiting for that call, and then we'll take it from there.

I said afterwards that if John Jones can get through all his stuff, that I think you versus John doing the rematch now makes the most sense for both of you, especially for John, just because he's been through so much, and it was such a great first fight, and people would get really excited. Do you like that idea, or is it too soon to do that? Well, you know, I'm up for suggestions. You know, why not? Let's see what they say. I'm off of suggestion, so whatever they give me, you know, I'm down for it. And, yeah, if I can fight with Jones, who knows? What do you think of the whole top of the division now with, you know, Kormier is champion? And it seems like him and Rumble want to fight each other, but Dana White is saying Rumble and John, what do you think about the whole situation at the top? Well, you know, I don't know, it's kind of mixed up right now, and I'm as much excited as you are, actually. I don't know what's going on with the John thing and all that stuff, but, you know, I just, I just, one thing I know is, you know, DEC is the champ and then let's see who is fighting next and who's the contender?

Would you be disappointed if John comes back and gets a title shot right away, or do you think he needs to work his way back up after everything that happened? Yeah, it wouldn't be fair, like, getting me, like, a title shot. I'm not saying, I'm going to get it. I'm just saying, like, you know, everything that happened, although, you know, it's not fair to other fighters, too. You know, they've been working their asses off, and they've been fighting each other.

So not a title shot, by the way. Just give him my fight first, and then let's see. Yeah. Who would you pick in a fight between Cormier and Rumble, rematch? You know both of them very well. Who would you pick? you know it's a hard question though you know because i don't know if if dc can survive one or two

punches you know they're probably going to get to win but you have to take those shots too yeah it's unbelievable those shots um by the way what was it like yeah they are being in the in the locker room and you saw what happened to your teammate and friend alir latifi and then you have to go out and fight right did that was that weird well just you know you did you just you know you just need to be professional in that type of situations. You can't get emotions to take over. I was pissed because I just saw that happen. And I got really pissed, but I just need to, like, you know, like forget that

and focus in my own thing, in my own fight, basically. And, yeah, that was that was it. And, you know, I talked to Eler right after. And, you know, he's, you know, it hurts. It hurts to, to. to lose that way, but just, you know, I think he, I think maybe he broke his thumb or something, but other than that, he's fine. Okay.

Physical, he's fine, but, you know, he hurts in the soul. Right, right. Yeah, I always feel bad for the teammate who has to go on after seeing that happen to your friend and teammate. I'm sure it kind of messes with you for a second right before you walk out, right? Yeah, no, I just saw that and, like, you know, I just got pissed right away. but you know I just I just knew that I have to have to forget that

and then I'm focusing on my own challenge and it worked you know but yeah it's not fun to see your team lose like that no so in a perfect world do you want to fight again this year yeah yeah I would yeah and will you be doing you know will you go back a little bit to San Diego and to Thailand I know you went a little bit

or for now you're going to stick in in Sweden. For now, I'm going to stick in Sweden. But who knows? I'm probably going to go over for some training in Alliance too. Okay. If I get a fight, we're going to plan the camp and see. Depends where it is too.

If it's in the US, it makes sense to come over and train. Right, right. I miss those guys too, so. Sure. Well, congratulations, Alex. You know, good to have you. back. Good to have you back on track.

And I know it was a very important one for you. So congratulations, enjoy the victory. And looking forward to your next one. Thank you for coming on the show today. Always a pleasure to talk to you. I appreciate that. Thanks for having me. Okay, there he is.

The Mahler, Alexander Gustafson, big win for him. Back on track now at 205. And 205 can certainly use him. A shortage of talent and interesting names. Slowly but surely some are coming up. I think of the likes of Misha Serkinov and Nikita Krilov, you know, there are some names coming up, but it has been a bit slow at 205 these days.

So having a familiar face and a draw like Alexander Augustine, in particular in Sweden, is definitely important for the UFC. Still rank number two in that division. And he is coming off a big win over Jan Blachowitz of Poland. Nice scene if you didn't see it on social media of them celebrating together, kind of toasting each other with some beer in the hotel. I'm not so sure if it was celebrating per se, but you get the point. So kudos to him.

Congratulations and curious to see what they do for him next. The John Jones situation might not work out. I'm told there's an October 10th Nevada Athletic Commission hearing, which could feature John Jones, Nate Diaz and Connor McGregor, because of the whole press conference thing, and Brock Lesner. But until that happens and until we know what kind of punishment he's going to get from the NAC and Yusada,

kind of crazy to even talk about what's next for John Jones. Let us move along. Let's stick in that light heavyweight division and go to my main man. King Mohammed Llewalla. It has been a long time since we talked to King Mo. And, you know, this past weekend I was thinking about him two times because I went to a local indie show and I saw some MMA fighters on it. Shana Bazler, Matt Riddle, Dan Severn. And then, of course, the CM Punk experiment.

I said, who better than King Moe than to talk about this whole craziness? So now here we have him. King Moe on the phone. King Moe, are you there? Yeah, man, I'm here. What's up, man? What's going on, King Mo? It has been a while.

Good to have you on the show, and thank you for being flexible with the time. I appreciate that. So let's talk about punk. What did you think of the whole thing? The whole experiment and then the payoff on Saturday. What did you think? Well, here's the thing, man.

Like, you know, he knew the sport. He jumped in here first. You know what I'm saying? And I could tell he felt good. The crowd didn't get to him, but when he got in the cage, his nerves got to him. Because when the fight started,

it's still settling down and moving around a little bit. bit, he's shuffled forward in kill mode. You know what I'm saying? Not using any of these tools because he's at the good camp. You know, Duke Rufus knows. He knows the stuff, man. So, you know, I'm pretty sure he was like, when you go out there,

fain, use your jabs, you know, set something up. But CNN Punk was in kill mode and just forgot. We just didn't implement the game plan from where I'm thinking. You know what I'm saying? And, you know, it takes practice. It takes time. You know what I hope to give them the chance to redeem himself because Because, you know, when I talked to him about him doing this, he told me, like, I can't live and not fight and not try to fight one time.

Well, he fought, but he really didn't give himself a chance to show his true skills. Did you think it was a mistake to book him against someone like Mickey Gall with his skill set? What else can you do? You know, all he can do is go out there and try and shit the fight up as to see what happens because anything can happen. What if he had point through a jab and overhand right and clipped them? You know, anything happened in the fight game, no victory is guaranteed. So, you know, maybe they can give him, like, someone else to fight, and he can build up on his skills, you know.

Hopefully he can go through a camp without getting injured or get into these negative injuries from taking out those bumps. But, you know, I just hope that, you know, he, you know, heals up, goes back in the gym, starts training, and keeps learning. Yeah. A lot of it was made of the performance, and of course it was rather one-sided. Do you take away any positives from what you saw? Did you see anything sub-deaf, anything at all?

Is there any silver lining there as far as the actual performance is concerned? Yep, my silver lining is, he's a fighter. And my, here's why I say this. Any other man, any normal man, were attacked when he was getting beat up like that and we'll quit. Man, he didn't quit. He was getting pummled. He got to put in every bad position. He was flattened out, getting hit, and know what, he kept on trying.

You know what I'm saying? They're people, they're vets. There's some champions out there. They have tap the strikes. You know what? He kept on fighting and got submitted, you know what? So I can give him, I can get him that. Like, he went out there to win.

He tried. That's how he can ask, you know, next time he'll do better. Okay, so now the internet, I don't know if you know this, but everyone is going crazy over his disclosed pay. They just released it, Ohio did, and the disclosed pay is $500,000. And people are, there's all these hot takes going on. Talk some sense. Is he worth $500,000? And let's not talk about pay-per-view, you know, points and all this stuff. $500,000 for CM Punk. What do you think of that number?

You know what? Here's the thing. Hindsight, yeah, he's worth that. You know why? Because if you would have fought sooner, the hype would have been even bigger. But the injuries and the delay kind of messed everything up. But if he would have fought this, like, shortly after he got signed, man, that type of view would either be over a million, in my opinion. Yeah. Because at that time, he was still hot. People were asking questions, like, what's going on?

He still happened when he had the injuries, and he was, like, not in the limelight. He was just quiet, and, you know, he was, like, kind of in Hillary Clinton mode. You know what I'm saying? People kind of just, like, eased up on it. But after the, after he signed the UFC the first time, or that's the first time, right when it happened, you know, they could roll that wave and had a fight sooner, and it would have been bigger.

My man, John Pollock of the Fight Network, tweets that if he added 17,000 pay-per-view buys, that equals $500,000. So when you break it down like that, I'm pretty sure he added at least 17,000 pay-per-view buys, right? Oh, yeah, yeah. It's just that, you know, here's a, here's a thing. Like, I think so, but you can't forget. Pepperviews are dying art with pro wrestling, because now they have a WWE network,

and people live on pay for paperviews. reviews them more. Right. Everybody streams them. So I think, I think, you know, off his hype alone and his name alone. Yeah. You probably, you know, he did well over $17,000,

but, you know, personally, you know, people, people intrigued, people tuning to watch. You know what I'm saying? So they can complain by him being not worth $500,000, but all the people complain and probably watch the fight. You feel what I'm saying? Yeah.

If you're the UFC, do you bring them back? I, know what? I bring it back. Really? Okay. Yeah, I bring it back. Yeah, man, he wants to fight. You know, I think that it's great, you know, when a guy that puts in time and effort and, you know, puts it on the line, people say that, oh, he shouldn't be in the U.S.

He signed him. So, you know what, give him a chance. Like, they don't fight out his contract. This is a dream for him. Just like when Herschel Walker fought. Herschel Walker wanted to fight. They wanted a fight. They gave him a chance.

He did it. So it's interesting that you bring up Herschel Walker, Mo, because I thought the man. mistake that the promoters did with Herschel Walker was they didn't build up the opponent at all. And of course, he beat the opponent, Greg Nudge, Scott Carson, but we knew nothing about those guys. So if he slipped on a banana peel, you would have been left with nothing. But with Mickey Gall, they actually did a pretty good job of building him up too. And then he gets on the mic and he calls out Sage Northcut. So that's why I feel like this was a win-win for everyone involved.

Punk got, you know, his wish. He gets to fight in the UFC. The UFC now gets a prospect out of Mickey Gall. And Gall wins sort of, you know, keeping. the sanctity of the octagon intact and the guy doesn't come off the street and wins. You know what I mean? I kind of feel like it was a win-win for everyone.

Yeah, it was, but you know, here's the thing. You can't. That's not fair to say he can off the street. Because, man, he's been doing jih Tijuana. For a while, great, he couldn't show it because he's getting punched. You know, punches change jihitsu. He's been training for two years with Duke Rufus, putting him work. You know, I text him here and there, check up on him, see how he's doing, and she'd be feeling good.

And, man, he was serious about it. you can see his body change, he was pumped up. You know, unless a man would have just find a way to not take the fight or find the way to pull out, but he didn't. He stepped up to the plate and took a swing. Do you still watch pro wrestling? Yeah, yeah, right now, you know, I'm big on a broken Matt Hardy and whether Nero. I don't know what you're talking about.

I know who Matt Hardy is, but, you know, I'm out of the game, but it's good? It's Broken Matt Hardy. Broken Matt Hardy is a new name, yeah. What is that? Yeah, broken. Matt Hardy. Then he changed the whole game up, man. Broke him at Hardie and brother

Niro. You got to peep it, though. Where does he wrestle Matt Hardy these days? He's doing indie shows in TNA. You know, he has a thing. It's weird because he talks different. He's a thing called Final Deleation and Five Deletion Part 2.

Check that out. It's crazy, but it's good, though, man. I like it. Okay, so let me ask you this. It seems like WWE mocked CM Punk last night. Did you see this? I saw it. I saw it. What do you make of that?

You know what? It's a rib. They all do that. You know, they talk about Brat Leznor. You know, it is what it is. This is part of the gang. I thought it was in poor taste. I mean, here's a guy going out there actually fighting, and you're going to be, like, and I know they're involved in this lawsuit

and everything, which seems kind of bogus to begin with, but come on. I don't know. I thought it was in poor taste. Listen, listen, I'm not with it, but the thing is that, it's That's a wrestling culture. They do that. They'll take shots at you for anything. It don't matter.

So you think, based on what you know, you think he'll fight again? You know what? I think he will. Okay. I think he'll fight again. I think he wants to. I don't know if the UFC will allow it because I don't really know what the UFC's doing. I don't really keep up with them.

I just keep up with my fighters to them cool within the UFC. But I hope he gets a chance to fight again. If he don't, hey, come on over the bellatory, dolls. we'll get your fight over there too. I said that if the UFC released him, Coker would be on the phone a minute later signing him, right? I mean, it totally makes sense. Yeah, we'll book him up.

We'll book him up. Get Scorpio Sky. So it's an amateur wrestler, Scorpio Sky. I mean, amateur wrestler, he's an amateur MMA, but he's a pro wrestler, you know, South of California. Okay. They can sit that fight up, so. What do you think of Mickey? Do you think he has potential?

Phil? I guess, man. He came to the American top team a while, like last year. He was showing him, man. He's tough, man. He's some skills. Just, you know, he's going to be, but he's coughing. That's for anybody. So I was also thinking about you on Friday night, because I went to this show in this little church in Cleveland, basement of a church, and it was an indie pro wrestling show, A-I-W, absolute intense pro-w wrestling, or Intensity Pro Wrestling. And not only was Dan Severin competing, but also Matt Riddle, the bro himself, and I got

his T-shirt right here, and Shana Basler, were also competing. There's the Matt Riddle shirt right there. And I thought of you, of course, because you attempted to make the switch over from MMA to Pro Wrestling. While you were still an active MMA fighter, they have taken a break. Are you familiar with what these two are doing, and particularly Matt Riddle? Because I was kind of blown away by both of them. They wrestled.

Look, I don't watch it as much, but they came out sort of a... as MMA fighters, and it felt very real, and that was interesting to me. Have you heard anything about their buzz? And if so, what do you think about how they're doing? Well, I saw Matt Rue. Matt Rueel's pretty good. Okay. I'm actually impressive way you've done.

Tennebeza, I haven't seen her work, but from what I've seen and, you know, of talking to her, she's not making far. She'll be a, she'll probably, if she keeps on, she sticks with it and stays serious and stays healthy, she'll end up, like, possibly at WWE, I think. Matt Riddle is the same as well. They're good. They're pretty damn good.

Are you surprised? Are you surprised that they're doing so well? No, I'm not surprised because it's like it takes people with imagination and personality and if they're pro wrestling fans, they'll do good at pro wrestling. They have to respect it and just go ahead. It takes time. You just can't jump up in there and be like, you know what, I'm going to be the best. Well, it takes time.

We used to put in that work. Once you put in that work, you're listening to the right people, then you'll become, you know, created pro wrestling. So why didn't it work for you? Well, the thing is, like, I have to, bro, I can work matches, but I was too involved in MMA still. Ah. You know, we still do wrestling matches at ATT.

Really? Atchee WF. You know, I wrestled Stevie Richards last year. What? You know, I, yeah, I was with Stevie Richard. I took a Stevie kick. Yeah, you know that? No, I didn't.

What is ATTWF? Is this open to the public? Yeah, the ATTWF. We go hard. And as a matter of fact, they're having to show this October at the gym. I can't, I was booked up here, but I can't make it because my boy's fighting from the corner of them.

But the next show, we'll bring you down, we'll show you down in America's Top Team. Wait, so is this open to the public? Yeah, it's for the kids and everything. We don't put the kids. But we have a belt. We have, man, we go hard, man. We have to have belts, you know, top rope action.

Yeah, we bring in stars. Like, you know, I'm going to try to holl up some people at Ring of Honor to see they can take my spot, you know what I'm saying, since I'm gone. Where are you going to be? My boy's fighting up there in Alberta. Oh, who's your boy? It's going to be called. Ryan Quinn, aka Quinn Swiggo.

Okay. Is he Irish? He eats half Irish, half Italian, but we call Quinn Swaggo. you know, he's a big wrestler fan. Who's the champ of the ATTWF? Well, he got stripped from the belt.

Micah, Micah Miller, aka Sidney Jones. Actually, I call him Cindy Jones. He was the belt holder, but due to the injury, he got stripped of the belt. Oh, snap. And me and Stevie Richards, we had a match with the belt,

but then, you know, someone interfered in the match, there was no contest. Are you talking about, like, Stevie Richards from right to censor and, like, back in the day? Yes, yes. The BWO?

Wow. Yeah, the BWO. Damn. I didn't know he was a part of the ATTWF. Yeah, man. We got West Briscoe. I'm going to bring in more people. West Briscoe is part of the ATTWF as well.

Ben Ortiz from Ring of Honor, part of the ATTWF. Damn. We go hard out there. Have you ever talked to, I'm sure you have, but I'll ask anyway. Dan Lambert, have you seen his belts, his belt collection? I haven't seen the belt collection, but... You know about this, right? We talked about it.

Yeah, I know about it. It's pretty impressive. Oh, my God. It's unbelievable. I've seen a picture of it, and it's just... It's amazing how many damn belts the guy has. By the way, speaking of ATT, any thoughts on Robbie Lawler pulling out of the fight?

Do you have any idea why? Man, it's like this. You know, I don't think... I first personally, me, I think that Robbins shouldn't fight to, like, December, January. It takes time. off because these past two years, man, at the gym, Robbie's been going to max.

Yeah. You know, saying? Take the time to recharge because Seroni, you know, Soroni's a good fight. It's a great fight for the fans, but, you know, why rush it? Surinney ain't going nowhere. Soronanin's always in shape, always ready. So once Robbie recharges, if Soroni wants to fight Robbie, then they can fight. Okay, so because that's also what I heard that he just wanted a little more time.

So it's strictly that, right? yeah man robin he's always in shape he just to you know why rush it you know the past two years man's schedule his fights man takes some time for your family taking time to yourself recharge you know after his last three fights the next the next the next the fall monday he's back in the gym lifting weight to doing something so he really isn't step west in the gym he has to be forced out by coach cammy so like hey go home you know go go do something like go fish go mow you line, go do something, go swimming. You know, they have to push him out there because

he always wants to be in there. Yeah. You weren't in his corner at 201, right? I was there. You were there? In his corner? Yeah. Yeah, man, I just, man, I lay low, man. You do let low. I saw you in the condit corner, but I didn't, I guess, I guess I couldn't, I was on the other side of the cage. I was on Woodley side, so I didn't see you there. Damn, you do lay there. Yeah.

What did you think? What did you think? What went wrong? Was it just, you know, A bad night overall? No, nothing went wrong. You know, like, nothing went wrong. Really, we just kind of, you know, when you're a shot part, your face the orthodox fighter with a good right hand, you don't want to circle to your left unless you're going to counter them. Well, we took it to our left, and we didn't get the counter off.

I guess we just looked like we misjudged the right hand coming, and it was like a looping, a looping right hand that came right underneath or slightly over the arm. And we just see how misjudged it. But, man, in a fight game, anything can happen, man. One punch, one kick, one knee, one elbow. Right. By the way, what do you make of this Kyle Snyder, Olympic gold medalist who says he wants to go to the UFC?

Does he, I mean, obviously he's never done MMA, but do you feel like he's, you know, he's a guy who has those skills that he could potentially be a monster in there? He's a big boy. Yeah, man. Here's a lot of potential, you know. Young still, you know what I'm saying? you want to go to the UFC

A lot of wrestlers You know She said it's a dream to go to go to the UFC Go fight or go make money I try to wrestle So hey If he gets to I hope he gets the right team

And he gets the right people And he'll be he'll be a star To go with you ATT Yeah Yeah you get to ATT you know When he's done wrestling When he's done wrestling

When he's done wrestling I wanted to win a few more medals Oh okay okay Okay so let's talk about you The last time we saw you Moe it was in May just, you know, one of those nights do you, I mean, first of all, have you watched

the fight against Phil Davis? Have you seen it since? Yeah, I've seen it, man. I thought I won, man. I thought I won but I guess they count black kicks. I talked to somebody like, yeah, black kicks do damage too and I'm like, okay. That's what I'm dead serious. They're like, yeah, black

kicks, we score those. And I was like, do you all score block punches too and they're like well it depends on damage and I'm like how can I determine that block kicks through damage to people's arms they're still throwing punches yeah it is where it is man

I'm hoping that sorry no no go ahead go ahead I hope I get a chance to you know bring it back you know there are a few there are a bunch of a few fights I thought I won that it's for some reason I guess the judges don't like more um do you know what's next yet

um no man, I'm just waiting, you know, I'm just in training and chilling, waiting. You know, I heard Shane Carlwin is looking to fight again. Oh. I wouldn't mind fighting Shane Carlton wants to come back. I'll fight anybody, man. Money wait, you know what I'm saying? So anybody's available to fight, you know, I'm down to fight. Wow, Shane Carwin, yeah, he announced last week that he's now a free agent. I've been told that Belator is interested, early talks. That's a big boy. You don't think he'll be too big? Man, look. Look at the old-school MMA fights back in a day. That's right.

I ain't here, I didn't hear Keith Hacking complain about size. That's right. You know, I don't care, but I don't know if I can make that way, I'm going to fight you, you know. Like, Shane Carman is a man. He has heavy hands. I've sparked him before. He touched me up a few times. Oh. It's a fight, you know what I'm about making, I'm probably getting paid.

That's a fight. So Shane Car, I like that. What do you think of the overall mood now at Bellator with Rory coming over? Benson came over and out the long, Matrione. Are you sensing a shift here? Are you sensing some good vibrations? Oh, yeah, man. Everybody's happy.

Everybody's cool. You know, the shows are, the cars are getting better and better. The competitions are getting up there. Morales up. You know, I wish every organization had the same issue as we do. You know, good, good science, good morale because MMA needs it. Who's the next big one you want to see come over? as far for him

I'm ready to see Aaron Pico oh yeah you know I want to see him yeah I'm ready he has hands the boy is legit how far

how far away do you think he is but here's the thing like I I hope Beltor match gets a fight but I want to see him win a medal as well because he's young

yeah yeah you know I still I like from the rest of still and win some medals but at the same time take some fights here and there because he's very silly.

He has great hands. He's a great wrestler. He's a, he'll be, you know, he's a star. What about Japan? Are you still,

you know, a possibility for Risen? Are you going to be Bellator only for the foreseeable future? I'm down for, I'm down for Risen. It's just that, man, like,

you know, like, there's the things, you know what I'm saying. Like, I ain't even talk bad about this. They're a great organization. There's the things that,

you know, I just, that I can clear up with them first. Oh, like what? Asked about it. I told you, I got talking about it.

But you brought it up. You brought it up. I know, well, see. Have they not paid you? Yeah, you know, um... Uh-oh. Yeah, yeah, I... That's how it has it to do to pay payment.

And, like, there's other things, you know what I'm saying? Hmm. This is bizarre. So until this gets cleared up, you have no interest in fighting for them. Well, no, I have interest. I have interested in fighting for them. Don't be wrong, but I'd like to talk. talk about some more things before I fight, you know what, I'll tell you off the record.

Okay, okay, okay, let's go off the record right now we're off the record. Tell me. You're out of the record, hey, because the things are rolling. I ain't done. You think, hey, you got Mark Burns? She's the past the Mark Burns, do it's important Donald Trump. Yeah, him. That was good. He got cut up line. Yeah, he did get cut out. I don't want to. I know Mark Burns. It was worth a shot. It was worth a shot. It was worth a shot. the shot. So will you fight again this year, though? Yeah, I think so.

I'm hoping two times this year. Oh, two times. Wow. Who do you think wins? Yeah, I'm hoping. Phil Davis or Liam McGeery? Who do you got? You know what?

I'm cool with both of them, but I'm wrong with with William, you know what I'm saying? Because, you know, I'm just wrong with Liam. I'm just wrong with Liam. I'm saying, the black pikey, the black Mr. Bean. That's my dog, man. Phil is cool, but I'm close to the, I'm close to the Liam. The black Mr. Bean. I like that. Because of the accent or any other reason?

Yeah, the accent is how he dresses too. Oh, and how he walks. He watches real British, you know. It's weird. But watch real like Mr. Beanish. Wow. I never noticed that. He's been in studio. I didn't notice he walked like Mr. Bean. I'll have to check that out. Wow. It's watching. It's been good to catch up, Mo. It has been a while. Yeah, man. What about you? You doing good? I'm doing good. Yeah, thanks for asking. I'm doing okay. I can't complain. staying out of trouble staying out of trouble and how the regime

change treating you oh well I got percentage of the of the no I'm just joking they're fine they're actually it's it's actually really nice it feels that whole thing that happened a couple months ago it feels like it was 10 years ago everyone couldn't be nicer good good good that's what's up

that's what's up well I wanted to I just wanted to catch up and get your thoughts on this whole crazy, you know, we, you know how it is, the MMA purists, they sometimes forget that, you know, the roots of MMA are definitely in pro wrestling. And you know what, you know what's funny, and I noted this on Saturday, Overeem comes out to the Pride song and all these people are going nuts, and some of those people were the same people who were saying the punk thing was crazy, but that was Pride 101, right? I mean, that was straight out of the Pride playbook, right?

Pride is pro wrestling to a T. Yeah, so. As a matter of fact, when MMA was big, pro wrestling was big and vice versa in Japan. Right. Yeah, not the first time and dare I say not the last time that's something like this is going to happen. Great to get your insight, my man. Thank you very much. Glad to hear everything's doing well with you. Thank you for stopping by.

Thank you for being flexible. And we'll talk to you very soon. Always a pleasure, King Mo. All right, man. Take it easy, bro. You're the man. There he is. King Muhammad Law.

Love talking to King Mo. Yeah, that was some disappointing news this past weekend that we got the first fight that really came out that was truly, I guess, sort of official for UFC 205. None of the fights are official just yet, but the first one was kind of Donald Seroni versus Robbie Lola. And then two days later, the fight is off. Unfortunately. Now, the story that I was told was essentially what he told us and that Robbie just needs more time.

And if I'm being honest, when this was even being rumored, I was thinking, yeah, I mean, this kind of feels a little bit too soon for Robola. He just got knocked out. He's been very active, fighting a lot of five-round fights, and, you know, he's coming back, what? Less than four months, three months and change after he gets knocked out by Tyrone Woodley. Donald Seroni told us a very funny story on Saturday.

In fact, he came to the scrum with a Budweiser bottle in his jacket pocket, and every couple of minutes he was just taking a sip of it. but he told us that Robbie Lawler called him up in Cleveland, asked him where he was, Saroni told him, went to meet him at the restaurant, just to tell him face to face, that he was not going to be able to fight.

I mean, how crazy is that? How cool is that? Kind of just fits who both of those guys are. And Saroni said that a piece of his inner fan died inside when Loller told him the news. He was so disappointed. everyone was very disappointed. I kind of feel like the only fight that they can make that would curb some of that disappointment is Nick Diaz, Donald Seroni. But I don't know if that's going to

happen. I kind of feel like they might want to save Diaz for GSP. There's a lot of moving parts. UFC 205 is one big moving part. Still not done. I mean, UFC 205 is happening two months from today. Two months from today is UFC 205. There is not a single fight officially announced for it. Now, we know some of them. Iaquinta Alves, we reported Volante de Lima. Wyman Romero isn't done just yet. And of course, the big one is the main event. And I think once they secure the main event, a lot of dominoes will fall. And I think that the dream main event, as of right now, is Connor McGregor versus Eddie Alvarez. That's the dream main event. But that's not even close to done. Cona McGregor emerged on Saturday on TMZ talking about the, uh, the CN punk fight saying fair play to him,

much props. But that fight is not agreed. That fight is not signed. That fight is not even booked. I mean, it is quite the quick turnaround for Connor McGregor. And again, as I think I said last week, another example, how the decision to pull him from 200 can affect the card like this because had he fought at 200, probably would have been enough time. but he fights August 20th.

Talk about turning around after a five-round fight like that. To fight November 12th is quite the ask. So what if they don't get Connor McGregor, for whatever reason? What's the backup? We know already that Ronda Rousey is not available. What's big enough for MSG? Fascinating story. This is the card that they have been working towards for years.

The big debut at Madison Square Garden. And two months out, still no main event. Now, I have no doubt that it's going to be a stack card, that it's going to be fun. But it always feels like when we're always building towards one particular card as opposed to a 202 or two or three, it's just hard to get everything in line. It's hard to get all the stars aligned. So that's going to be a fascinating story to monitor.

Also fascinating, a lot of the champions, because there were so many fights booked over the summer, a lot of the champions are now playing this waiting game. Okay, now, of course, Miochich is going to take a break, and I certainly think that that's the right call. not only did he take some big shots on Saturday, but he, you know, he fought in May, won the belt came rather quickly as far as a turnaround is concerned and fought in September. Then you have DC, we don't know when he's going to fight. Bisping's fighting in October in less than a month, so that's squared away.

Woodley, assuming now it's going to be Wonderboy, that they're sort of back on track, but nothing booked just yet. and I think that's another domino that will fall once they figure out the 205 main event situation. Eddie Alvarez, part of that domino. Conor at 145, part of that domino. Domino Cruz, no fight just yet, assuming it's going to be Cody Garbrant. Demetrius has a fight against the tough winner in December. Nothing yet for Yowna.

I think that's another domino. And Amanda Nunes, who all signs seem to point to December 30th against Rondorowski, but nothing there just yet. So there's a lot of uncertainty right now, a lot of fights that need to be booked. with a lot of dates, but a lot of the champions are waiting to get their number called upon. Okay, let's move along. Belator is back on Friday. It's a show in Cedar Park, Texas.

It's Belator 161. The main event is Czech Congo versus Tony Johnson. And one of the intriguing fights on said card is a female fight. Anastasia Yankova is fighting on the card. It's her second fight for Belator. She's fighting Veta, Artiega, and Anastasia is joining us right now via the magic of Skype. There she is right over there. Anastasia Yankova, one of the big prospects for Bellator.

How are you, my friend? Hey, hey, guys. I am good. Thank you. How are you? It is good to have you on the program. So here we are. You're in San Jose right now, right?

Okay. Now I'm in A.K. Oh. Oh, you're in A.K. Okay. So you spent part of this camp, A.K.K. and now AK in San Jose, correct? Yes, I started my training camp in Thailand

and they finished my training camp here in San Jose, in California, and AKA San Jose. So are you a full-time AK member now? Is that your team? Yes, it's my team. Mike Swick is my coach, my head coach, and, yes. Okay, Mike Swick. A long-time veteran of the sport.

So there's a lot of buzz surrounding you right now. There's a lot of hype surrounding you. Belator is pushing you very much. Are you surprised how quickly all of this is happening for you? Because you're only 3-0 as a pro-M-MA fighter, 2-0 when you came into Bel-Tor. Are you a little surprised that all this is happening so fast? Yes.

Yes, I understand what you mean. Sometimes it's really surprised for me because I don't wait that people know me the people come to AKA for autograph for photo with me it's really depressed for me I yeah for sure I wanted but I think before I think I need more time for this you know for sure it's pleasure it's honor for me that I finish my training and go to home for rest and I see people then they say me, I can a photo with you and I can your signal in your photo.

And for sure, and before I don't think that it will be happening now, you know. Yeah, especially in the United States. Are any of these people weirdos that come up to you for photos or are they all nice? Yeah, first question was to be a video. Just close me. Weird, like you. I don't know. What's what you know?

You know, who know, who are going to go, in the sense, weird. I don't know. Crazy people,

I meet just in internet. Okay. In life, maybe, but I meet only really friendly and good

people and the it's pleasure for me. Yeah, I saw a couple of months ago, you wrote something on Instagram about the crazy people on the internet. How do you block those people out? Like, is that just a constant? You're always getting crazy messages from fans and just random strangers online? I'm going to translate. She's going to start answering yours. Sure. Thank you, Mike.

I thought it was that I thought it was really not abdubler and I was in shock that there's just people who are that people who are to put them up in between the or something or something or sit me on their own, like these feelings

but, but now now I just started to dubriety I thought that definitely in the same of people very much and, you know, that, you know, and that's, I mean, And that in Russia, that in America, on the United States,

I would say that. At first it was, you know, a little shocking. You know, she just never realized that there's that many weird people in the world. You know, the request range from, can you kick me in the groin, to can I sit on your lap, to just whatever you can think of.

But my knowledge is kind of used to it. And the good thing is that there's an equal balance of weird people in Russia as they are in the U.S. and the rest of the world. So I guess the weirdos from all over the world are just equally weird. Okay, that's a good way to put it. Let me ask you a very blunt question.

If you did not look the way you look, do you think that you'd be in Bellator? Is it the thing we're going to do the fact that we used to do much to belabor-Belotr. Yeah, I have a lot of Belator, can yes. Yes, I think so. That's pretty, that's... That's... I think that's not.

I think that I would be in the lottery, maybe I would have been more time, but for the people who knew me on the streets, but I think that I would be on the place, on which I'm going to

be on which I'm now. Yeah, I think so. It might have taken me longer. It might have taken me longer to get more recognized by the fans. And, you know, the world might have been longer. But at the end of the day, I belong here, and I think I would end up.

here anyway. Do you constantly feel the pressure as you now, you know, get to get the opportunity to fight in your second Belator fight to prove that you belong? Like, not everyone has to constantly prove that they belong, but because you have somewhat of a bull's eye on you, because you're very good looking, because you get a lot of attention, people want to say like, oh, she's just a pretty face, but do you feel the need to have to continue to prove to people that you're much more than just a pretty face? I need time

because for sure I have only one fight in the auto now and for sure people don't know about me as about a fighter only one fight it's not

say about me a lot of you know but give me a little bit time and I'm sure people don't will talk talking about me just

about my face and you know and I'm training really hard or for don't

only my coach and don't only guys from my team know about I can fight and this Friday

I think I show that and one more time I show then I don't only put a face and so on the I was watching one of your pre-MMA fights I think it was a Muay Thai fight and you came out wearing this white mask

it was a very strange mask it was like this with this long nose and stuff what is that what does that represent he said me I would say in the Russian he said he said me from one of the way for kickboxes

when I was in mask Pele of the film and why I did it did it and, you know, say there were such there were such, you very really took away

with his parents and then now, it's time to have been to me these rounds, in, in

which, kind of a little bit story of this film. So the mask was actually from the movie

saw. It was the that the character they saw were. And it was part of, I guess, like, the fight theme. She chose to, the fight theme was, you know, hey, you've been mean to your opponents, so now it's time to face me in the ring. So kind of like she transcended the little bit of the saw theme into the fight.

So she just came out with a mask to kind of go along with it. Okay, so that was a one and done. You're not going to come out to the ring or cage with any masks anymore? Maybe, I don't know, maybe in the future, why not? I liked it. It was scary. It was good. Those on the show, good fun. I like surprises people and why not. Little bit show, why not? Sure, yeah, put on a show for everyone. You're also, which I can very much appreciate, a very big fan of sneakers, right? Of running shoes, Jordans, right? You have a very big Jordan collection, correct? That's your favorite?

Oh, yes. I was a bit crazy about shows and about Jordan, too, which is my favorite. Now I buy a little, one new shoes. And every time it's my really problem because I travel a lot of time. And every time I put a lot of money for, you know, for more suitcase, because more suitcase. full of Jordans and full of sneakers. I know it's crazy, but I still like it.

Which is your favorite Jordan? Is there a particular one that's your favorite? Oh, like, for sure, classic. But now 11, 11 model is, oh my God. 11, that's my favorite too. Really? Yeah, that's my favorite. With the patent leather, the white and the black?

Um, you have good, uh, no, I like, now it's cold color. Oh my God. It's so, so nice. Um, you have good taste. Thank you. Because it's classic and it's really, really good. Yes. Uh, what's the most that you've paid for a pair of Air Jordans?

Okay. Oh my gosh. Oh, my God. Um, I try, um, not that's super crazy about this. but sometimes I'm really satisfied. I can buy a lot of shoes. And I can't have a big collection because I travel every time.

I don't have home now. And every my shoes and every my favorite clothes, I with myself, you know, every time. And it's my problem. And I try to employ a lot of now, but sometimes I'm a little bit crazy about it. I understand. You see it and you think, oh my God, I really need it, but maybe you don't need it in real enough. Makes you happy.

Yeah. It makes me happy for sure. So you don't have an actual home? You don't have like an address where you get mail and stuff? You have no home? No, I'm not. commerce. It's so funny. No, but, okay, I train in A.K. Thailand.

Yes. My parents in Russia, in Moscow, I fight in America and in Europe sometimes too. And I need time for training camp, two months. I fly to A.k.A. Thailand for two months. And after, I need acclimitization. And, you know, just like someone, I fly to Europe or from America. And at a time, maybe three weeks, maybe two weeks. And after I had little bit time for meet my parents, my family, my friends in Moscow.

Sometimes I have, sometimes not happen for my next five calls. I back to town for training camp. Oh, yeah. What I mean. Are you a big deal in Moscow? Like when you go back home, do a lot of people recognize you? Are you in the news or a lot of people covering your fights? Yes, it's time for media, for the fight.

I think about, oh, I meet my friends, and we will be hung out and eat tiramisu because I can eat what I want a little bit of time. But in real, it's media and a journalist and for sure. Wait. Did you just say tiramisu? Yes, just okay Tirmisu, my favorite dessert also This is unbelievable

What a connection Tiermi Su, my favorite My mom, one day my mom will make you a Tirmisu She makes the absolute best No one better Wow, sounds good, okay? Yes Okay, I also heard that your tattoos are very important to you

They all mean something, right? Can you tell us about what's your favorite tattoo Like what's the symbolism behind it? It's not easy questions It's my memory from one period in my life, time in my life lesson from that moment. And for sure, it's bigger and a lot of journalists ask me about exactly this tattoo. It's a fish and it's dragon, it's a Japanese story about fish. they

um uh choice uh work way and uh

will uh drag them and finish this way you know I make it after my

first lose in professional rings and I go to my master my authorities

and I say I think I think this way and uh I flee, but I will be drugger. And the tattoo about it, you know.

And I have tattoo Kali. Kali is a goodness from India. It's goodness about war, about, about die, about their weakness, you know. It's an idea about every day you, you kill your weak, you know, you will be stronger and tell about this for me. And under tattoo, I have stories like this.

That's amazing. That's amazing. Have you gotten a tattoo since your Belator debut? Anything about that experience? Yes. Oh, I was just, when you, there was, how much the impression that you tattooed over,

or, you know, you can't take, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Kali is, from this time, from time, the total fight with some time, then I first time come to America and I, you know, like my year, on a year, I travel every time and I meet

new people every day and everything. change so fast and that Carly about this call about change it

every day every time you you change yourself you change your life and you

don't scare it you know it's not about a real life you know it's not about

comfortable maybe but it's about what inside you and war in your life with

weakness with scared and other things. Yes. This must be a pretty daunting thing for a young woman who is from a place so far away like Russia and you're going to Thailand and you're on American

TV and you're doing more media. Do you feel like you're handling all this well? Do you wish you handled it better? What's it like dealing with this new celebrity that's come to your life? Yes. I'm going to say, you know, you're a young girl who has been with you.

I'm like this was a real world that's in international radio, in the interview, and in America, Thailand, and Tais, for all of you know. How with it, how you're slavis? Is it normal? Or do you think that it's very much to do it? And it's not really, I think it's a normal. It's good. It was my plan, you know. Plan for this life. I just think I need to continue hard work, hard work, hard work.

hard work, hard training, and don't move my focus. But now I have all what I need for improve my fighting game and improve my English. And no, I'm happy because it's life what I've won before. And it's not surprised in Russia. sounds not super good for me but in Russia I really many people know me and I like it and I like me the guy who know me and I like motivated people and it's motivated me you know and I like what I do and I really love what I do now and I'm happy. and just continue it and don't lose focus, I think.

It's okay. I heard that you used to host your own morning workout show in Russia. Is that true? Yeah, sometimes I really show a little bit workout for, for people not a place, not professional players. Yeah. normal people, yes, sometimes. I did it.

You still do that, or no more? No, no, it's impossible because I travel and in Russia I've crossed a little, little, little time from all my time, you know. Right, yeah. I could see that one landing on Spike, maybe in the future of Spike TV. Good idea. Yeah, how about that? Let me get some of that. Oh, you're curious.

You recently trained with Hoist Gracie. What was that like? Did you know who he was beforehand? Was that kind of crazy for you? Oh, for sure. No, it's legend. Yes. Before my

first fight and daughter, he came in, before the full fight and a lot of home, he claimed something, I don't say exactly what, but it really motivated me and before this fight I meet him and he said

canceling things that really motivated me too much because if you have advice for legend it's fantastic yeah because you know I'm fighting in USC that I was year old Yeah. Crazy. It's fantastic. And my training with him, and it's a really special, special day for me, for sure. It will be a special day for every people who know about MMA, because if you know about MMA, you know, it's really great for sure.

When I think of a Russian MMA, I think of Fyodor Emilianenko. Have you ever met him? Can you repeat it? Oh, I said when I think of Russian MMA, I think of Fyodor. Fyodor Emilinoenko. Have you ever met him? Yes. I've met him.

Yes. I cannot say that further my close friend now, but yes, I meet here and for sure. If you ask all Russian fighters, all say yes. in start my career, brother was being my motivated, my legend, my hero, and I'm saying for sure. Before I let you go, I want to ask you about another fighter

in your division, Elima McFarland. She seems to have this obsession with you. She fights for Bellator. She even tweeted me yesterday and you blowing you kisses. She says that there's a sexual tension between you two. What is going on here? Is she like a stalker or something? What's happening over here with you in McFarlane? Oh my God. First time, then I read interview about me from Lima. I read like a she say about me, about a fight with me. It's nothing special, but the time I tell you, I'm talking about, uh, I'm talking about, uh,

around the road here because she mutilated me because it's really big star. I'm talking about Gina Karana because it's for me it's, it's really my hero and it's really special type for me, it's legend for me. But they are talking about me. But first time I think, okay, well, I know. But I don't talk about it in interview. okay, if she wanted talking about it, why not? But second time, it's really strange because, you know,

sexual attention, the phone, it's, I'm really surprised it. I was surprised it. But I think, really smart girls, because use my name and use words, like, sexual attention. It's good. It's good for journalists, journalists like it. And now you're talking with me about Lima, not about others.

You know, it's really smart trick, but that's stupid. I don't want to make more popular show name. Use my name, you know. What about, I think, about this interview and others? But if we're talking about fight, I'm really, why not? And if the Lator thinks next fight or in future and in spite with Lima, why not? I'm ready to fight with all girls from my division, for sure. All right.

Well, I wish you the best in your second Belator fight on Friday. We'll be watching. It's this Friday from Texas, Beltor 161. Anastasia Yankova, one of the bright young stars for Belator MMA. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Thank you, Mike, as well. Spasiba, as they say, right, over in Russia? Oh, yes.

How about that? Good. Thank you. All right. Thank you. And all the best, you. Good luck in your career. Thank you very much.

All right. There she is. Anastasia Yankova, a bright young star for Belator fighting in her second Belator fight against the undefeated Veta Artiega. So stay tuned for that. Joe Warren on the card. And of course, as I mentioned, Czech Congo against Tony Johnson. That is the main event on Friday night.

UFC also in Texas on Saturday. Dustin Porier against Michael Johnson is the main event there. Also, Uriah Hall against Derek Brunson. So it's another busy weekend in mixed martial arts, Beltwar on Friday, UFC on Saturday. But I'm not ready to put 203 to bed just yet. Let's bring in New York, Rick. I'm here, Rick, are you there?

Yep. I am here. There he is. Hello. Eric Rick, got a bit of a pep in a step today. He was loving 203. You said one of your favorite events of the year, right? Did it?

I don't know. Yeah? You hated it? What is that? My ring. That's your ringer? Yeah. What song is that?

I'll tell you later. Why? Although I had my phone on silent. That's weird. Can't you just tell me? Why? Is that a bad thing? No, no, no.

I'll tell you another time. But. It's bizarre You let your phone ring on the air And you won't even tell me what the song is I know the song I know that song You do not know this song

I definitely know it Jay Z? No But Okay Was it my favorite event of the year Probably not But it was definitely the one

That had me The most captivated Yes it was very wacky It was fun I enjoyed it Again I know the whole pro wrestling thing But it did feel like a pro wrestling

like the Edmund Verdome post-fight melee, if you will, that was pro wrestling-esque. Okay, let's run down the line here, okay? What's the final verdict on punk? Based on what you saw, based on what you've now, you know, heard or read that he got paid. Yep. I'll ask you the same question that I asked Pollock, the experiment, give it a grade. From whose perspective? UFC?

Yeah. A-plus. A-plus, wow. Better than Pollock. Paul gave it a B-plus. I say A plus. Okay. They got what they needed out of him.

Yeah. Likely they won't have to do it again. If unless people want to and if people seem to be interested in seeing it again, they can do it again. They have that still in their back pocket. It didn't, I don't think what, even though the fight was one-sided, they've eliminated the possibility of punk fighting again. Completely. So he can't fight. again.

He can. Oh, he can. I'm saying, I'm not sure that there would be an appetite for it, but if there is, they haven't eliminated that completely. Why? Well, because it wasn't a situation where, you know, I don't think it was a situation where it was clear that, in this case, a guy like Mickey was in there, and it was clear that he was in a different level.

He was at a different level than CM Punk. if you were to say hey we're bringing in somebody who's also oh and one or oh and oh or somebody around that same skill set I think there will be people

who are still be interested in seeing CM Punk now it will still draw the same ire the same people who said he shouldn't be here in the first place will now say he and his opponent shouldn't be here in the first place

but I don't think the possibility of him fighting in the UFC again was completely eliminated it is still possible Do you think they book them again? I have to imagine not because I don't think they want to get into this business of bringing in guys exclusively for other guys or girls. I don't think they want to get into that business because then you have the Mike Jackson's and all these people that are one and done potentially.

I don't know if that's how they want to do it. What do you think of Mickey? You know, it's hard to grade his performance because... Just the whole package, how he dealt with everything he wants. Let's talk about... Okay, in terms of the performance, you can't say anything other than a perfect score just because he did what he needed to do there. The only thing he could have possibly done better is if he punched him one time and knocked him out.

Sure. But you can't really grade that because... CM Punk was clearly not on his on his level that's what he needed to do so it's hard to say it's hard to gush over the performance because that's what he needed to do but um in terms of how he's handling the things outside of the the cage itself and um you know how how he's handling this ride uh i think he's been nailing it outside of one thing the idea of him saying that he doesn't belong on the poster and seem punk talked to him about that i don't i don't agree you can't You can't have that mentality.

Yeah. You have to say that you have to stake your claim. And I think his performance did that, but he has to, you know, follow that up by saying, I belong here. That was pretty cool that he said that to him right after the fight was over. And it's going to be very interesting to see what they do. But, again, I think he did a really good job. Everything he said, even afterwards in the press conference, which again, I'm happy that they are doing them now with these sort of single press conference. so you really get a lot of time to talk to everyone.

I'm going to say this, and many people will not agree with me. I think both Mickey Gaul and CM Punk passed this week with flying colors. Yeah. Like he lost and he's upset, but yeah, I couldn't agree more. Leading up until this fight, the only thing that you heard from pretty much everybody was CM Punk's not a real fighter, doesn't belong here, not a professional, not a professional athlete. Couldn't make weight, wasn't going to make the walk, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

after defeat he handled it in a way that he didn't need to he he didn't need to be a professional after uh that performance he came in there put it all in the line and for the people that were you know shoveling crap at him for for all this time um he had no incentive to to continue to be a professional after that he could have told everybody to screw off i just got a half a million dollars lived my dream piss off um i'm i'm doing whatever i want want, leave me alone. But no, he stood there and sat at the press conference and took his medicine and answered the questions and acted like a true professional.

So whether he's capable of fighting in the UFC at this level or not is now clear. He's not, clearly. But we always knew that, right? But we knew that. And what we didn't know was how he was going to deal with this adversity. Whether he would make the walk. Exactly. Whether he'd make it this far.

and he passed that with flying colors. So the only thing that he didn't do was when. Everything else that he said he was going to do, he did, he brought way more attention to a card that was not going to do well on paper. We don't know the numbers, but the traffic was good, all that stuff. I see a lot of people belly aching about his pay. What did you think he was going to get? In fact, I thought if that's true and again,

how many times we have to tell you that those numbers always aren't right? I mean, almost every single time they're not. Okay, at the bottom of the card, I should say, like the 10 and 10s, those are usually accurate. At the top, there's always a bunch of stuff going on. And let's not forget about the pay-per-view points, which he got. But, but who truly thinks that he's not worth $500,000? And especially when you break it down the way Pollock broke it down on Twitter, 17,000 extra pay-per-view buys equals 500,000 when you consider the cost. You don't think he brought 17,000? But what is the argument against him getting that money? I'm not understanding

what the surprise by this, is the bigger question. Like, In any job, not just fighting, but let's keep it to fighting for now. The more value you bring to the company, to the organization, the higher you will be compensated. It's not, there's no, you're not paid based on appearances except by Reebok, that Reebok deal. There is no stipulation that you have to have a certain dues paid to be able to make a lot of money in the fight game. You have to be provide value and CM Punk provides value. Clearly, people, you know, people tuned in and they're either going to hate him or love them, whatever the case may be. He provides a ton of value.

And that doesn't only apply to the fight game in any job. The more value that you provide, the more handsomely you'll be compensated. So anybody shocked that CM Punk would make a lot of money for this fight is almost like what else would happen. That was what he was here for. We knew certain facts coming into this fight. We knew that he would not be a world beater when he stepped in the cage, and we knew that he would be rewarded handsomely for it. Those are just facts that we knew coming in, and nothing has changed.

And that number doesn't shock me. In fact, it would probably be higher if I had to guess. Well, it is going to be higher with the pay-per-viewpoints. Here's the one thing, regardless of what you think about the UFC, here's the one thing that you can't deny. they don't book gimmick fights and what I mean by that is they don't book cupcake fights and what I mean by that is when they do sort of skirt the line between entertainment and sport they'll always stack the deck against the gimmick they did that against James Tony

when he fought Randy Couture worst possible matchup for him and they did it again here with CM Punk those are the the two best examples in the last decade or so and they could have easily like that's the big difference in my opinion between bellator and the ufc like we know you could always kind of guess who the promoter wants to win based on their marketability how popular they are etc but at the end of the day you got to roll the dice um here's a bit of breaking news from jimmy rivera just texting me what a guy jimmy rivera right unbelievable this guy actually sticks to his word and text me he said uh i need medicine but the retina is fine it's a scratch and inflammation from the pressure just drops and rest how about that no surgery for

Jimmy Rivera. Well, that's great news. Anyhow, so they could have given Punk a much easier opponent, but I think a year or so into this experiment, which is when they found Mickey Gall, they recognize that, look, there isn't a long future here. He's not going to stick around. Maybe his body's too broken up. Maybe he's too old, whatever the case is.

So we need to find someone who has a good chance of beating him, who we can then, you know, build off of and turn into a legit prospect. And that's what they did with Mickey Gall. And with the Randy Couture story, they found a very very. veteran and that was the perfect sort of foil in the MMA versus boxing argument. Belator, who I think is really turning the corner and finding good young prospects, they make it too obvious when they book these fights. Like Anastasia Yonkova, she is someone that they're pushing. How much do we know about Veda Artiega? Never heard of her before this fight, right? They make it too obvious. They make it too

one-sided. They try to stack the deck in the favor of the person that they're pushing. They did that with the two female fights not that long ago, and then when those fighters lose, you're left with nothing. So if you're going to play the gimmick game, you always have to put some chips on the other side of the table in case there's a loss because this is MMA and it's 50-50, if not more than that. And I think that the UFC did a very good job here. You know, would it have been better if this fight happened, you know, six months after the announcement? Would it have been bigger? Probably. But I really think Saturday night was a very good night for the UFC again, because the, the, the,

purist, the guy who put in the time in MMA won because Punk got his fight and they got the extra buys and sold some more tickets because of it and because now they're left with someone that they can really build. And if you don't think at this point that Mickey Gall is someone that they A, will try to build and B is worth building, then I don't even know what to tell you. And if you don't think that Mickey Gall, excuse me, that CM Punk is worth the money that he got, I don't know what to tell you. That's not to say that the other fighters on the card aren't worth more and should be paid more, that all MMA fighters should be paid more. But there's really nothing wrong with what happened here. And the UFC has become its own farm system. Mickey Gall is deserving. Guys who come off

tough are the New York Yankees. It's not the Dallas Cowboys. They are their own farm system. There are 500 fighters. Do you think all those 500 fighters are the best of the best in the entire world? No, there's a process as you work your way up the card. And, you know, the bottom guys, are not as good as the top guys and you work your way up and hopefully you get better fighters in two, three years, that's just what the UFC is. So stop talking about UFC caliber and stop talking about the elite and stop talking about the major leagues and this this game is built differently. It's not like baseball, it's not like basketball. And if you want to compare it to those, compare the bottom of the card to the MBDL, compare the bottom of the

car to the double A baseball, you know, single A, AAA, AAA, and the top is the majors. And so that's why, you know, I'm kind of happy this whole thing is over so we can stop, you know, talking about this and arguing about it, I have no problem if they bring him back. My guess is that they're going to try to get him to fight on a fight pass show, you know, for a smaller promotion while still keeping him under payroll because he'll probably bring more eyeballs to fight pass and that keeps him away from Beltor. You know, who knows if he's interested in that sort of thing. But how do you walk away from that whole thing?

I got some fans and some friends even texting me like, that was pathetic. What were you expecting? CM Punk on Saturday night looked like an oh-and-o fighter. with no combat sports experience prior to this whole thing, who was debuting on the biggest stage possible. That's what he looked like. He did not look worse than that. He did not look better than that.

He looked exactly how he should look. And what the heck else were you expecting? Now, if you had some illusions of grandeur that he was going to knock him out and go on a 10-fight winning streak, well then, you know, kudos to you for dreaming. But that is exactly how an O&O fighter who's 37 years old, who just came off back surgery, and has never really done anything like this before

is supposed to look in his MMA debut, his UFC debut. So there were no surprises here. That was what we expected. That's not to say the journey was fun, that it was fun to cover, that I respect the hell out of the guy for actually doing it, for making the walk.

You know, that's not to say that it was, you know, it was a pretty fun little element to an otherwise, you know, pretty solid card with some weird moments, but, you know, I had no problem with its placement. The walkout was fun. Mickey coming out to his son. The whole thing was just fun. Stop taking this whole thing so seriously. Now, I know what they do in the cage is very serious. I know that this is as serious as it gets when it comes to athletics. They're getting punched in the face with small gloves in a cage, kicked in need. It's very serious.

But this whole sanctimonious BS about the sanctity of the octagon and respect for the sport and the history. You're forgetting about the history when you're saying that. You're forgetting about pride. You're forgetting about UFC 1. This is what MMA was built on. This is how it was born. And I have to say, like, I thought that the, the Rogan Ream interview was spot on. I thought Rogan did a fantastic job there. I thought they had to call him out on it for the sanctity of the sport. Like, if someone's claiming tap and it's a title fight, you got to find out if there's a tap and we have replay, so let's find out. Could you imagine if there was a tap what the reaction would have been? But that being said, I will say the rolling of the eyes, the comments, the saying like,

this is a crazy decision. Even the way he was speaking on the way to the cage, I don't know, I thought that that was a big misstep. And I get it. I understand that you want honesty. And let's be honest, more often than not, there isn't honesty on the UFC broadcasts. More often than not, they're trying to pull the wool over our eyes and give us, you know, the puff.

They're trying to give us the promotional speak. They've been doing that since day one, especially the Zoufa era. When a guy tested, I think about Sean Shirk, when BJ Penn fought Joe Stevenson and Newcastle, they didn't mention the failed drug test. So I appreciate the honesty, and I think they're doing a lot better job of that. It's really changed. And I get what he was trying to do.

I just think he didn't do it the right way. It was changed the channel discourse that he was putting out there. He was making you believe that this was a ruse, that this was a waste of time, that this had no business happening. We got to the point. We're at Saturday night. It's happening.

To me, it was disrespectful to the guy who was at the arena getting ready to fight. The guy had done everything that was asked of him and then some. He's there. The time for that discourse was long gone. That's podcast talk. That's not broadcast talk. To me, it was disrespectful.

It was. You know, CM Punk is not the one who came to the UFC and asked for this. They came to him. Now, I'm sure that there were some feelers sent back and forth. But to say that this was, you know, a horrible decision, to say that, you know, to essentially imply that he had no business being in there, to roll your eyes at the package, and all that stuff. And let's all forget,

you know, Joe Rogan has a very, very long, storied martial arts background. He has a black belt. He is very good at what he does. He has never made the walk. And maybe he's never been offered.

Who the heck knows? But, you know, let's all forget who's saying these things. Let's all forget, you know, like, that's why I can't, I can't say a thing

about a fighter who has made that walk. I can't say a thing about a person who has walked into a cage and the door is closed behind them and they've actually gone in there and fought. You can't say a thing. You can call them a bad fight, but you can't question their motives. You can't shit on them.

You just can't. And I feel like in that position, especially when you have never fought, it's just a bad look. It's a bad look for the organization. To me, it was changed the channel stuff. If I'm sitting on the fence and I know nothing about CM Punk and I'm a UFC fan, Joe Rogan is telling me that this is a waste of time, that this is not going to end well, that this wasn't the right call and that it's finally happening, but let's just go through

with it begrudgingly. That's the way I took it. Maybe I'm a little biased. Maybe I'm too sensitive. But I was very surprised that, you know, that he got away with that. And I know he kind of has carte blanche to do whatever he wants. I think Sian Punk deserved a little more respect than that. Am I crazy?

No. Well, I mean, this is our first question from the fans. And I think this is interesting. You talked about you respect them greatly for making that walk. You're talking about disrespect now. The question that this person asked is, does he deserve our respect? I think that's clear. He deserves respect.

But let me ask you a different question. There's no denying. Wait, let me just say, there's no denying that he got this opportunity because he's a famous person. Yeah. And we wouldn't be talking about this if this was a, you know, a guy who won a contest at the local YMCA. We can't ignore that. We know that. We all understand that. We all recognize that. But let's just talk about what it is. It's a famous guy who wanted to do this, who got an opportunity, who went out and did it. And again, if he would have bowed out after the back surgery, he would have been the butt of jokes, yes, but no one would have batted an eye. This would have been a footnote in UFC history. But he kept at it. He kept going. He did the weight cut. He showed up on time.

He did everything that was asked of him. And yes, he got paid. And guess what? He deserved that money. 20 years in the wrestling business to become a superstar made him deserving of that money. Absolutely. Not a word that you said that I disagree with. Clearly deserves respect.

But let me change the question a little bit. Does he deserve kudos? Does he deserve? there's people who are saying he deserves a pat on the back for giving it a try. And at a boy, you know, a participation trophy. Does he deserve that? And is it condescending almost to give him that? I'll tell you the last person who wants that is CM Punk.

Correct. I truly believe that. I had a brief text conversation with him and I was like, hey man, you know, much respect to you. It's been fun covering this. You know, who'd have thought? And you know what he wrote back? I lost.

That's all he cares about. He doesn't want any of that. He really doesn't. So we could do it and I will do it and I will say much respect because I don't feel like we're talking about life and death here in the sense of like we're covering war or anything like that. But look, a man late in his 30s put it all in the line and, you know, risk serious injury, risk embarrassment. And yeah, you could say, oh, he got paid, but nothing is, you know, nothing's worth that much. Nothing's worth the risk of serious injury or something bad. You know, who knows what could have happened in there.

And it worked out where, you know, he got an ear injury and a few stitches under his eye. Cool. I just feel like the way some people have reacted to this is just like, this was one fight on USC 203 and the train moves along. And you probably won't have to deal with it again. And if you want to talk about the irony of a guy who complained his entire, you know, for the latter portion of his career and pro wrestling that, you know, others were getting opportunities over him and they were undeserving while he put in his time. Yeah, there's an irony there. And guess what? he's addressed that. He's addressed at all. But there is something to be said for a guy who says,

look, everyone doubted me. Everyone's doubted me in my entire life, and I'm going through some stuff, and I had a bad breakup with my previous employers who are now suing me and all this stuff, and I just want to go out and do something so that when I'm 80 years old on my deathbed, you know, I don't want to regret it. And I have no problem with that. It doesn't make me think less of the UFC, of Dana White, of Lorenzo Fertita, who signed him, of the sport. Again, because this has happened before an MMA. It has happened before. It's not the first time. It won't be the last time. And so I know that. I'm comfortable with that. I'm comfortable with the fact that MMA is rooted in pro wrestling, that it sometimes skirts

the line between sport entertainment, that Dan Henderson, who's ranked 13th, is getting a title shot in four weeks time that Kimbo fought on national television and represented our sport. And I no problem with that. You know, like this has happened before. So I don't understand why people seem to forget all of that. I think clearly that's correct. But I think there's a subset of people who think that him not paying dues excludes him from getting the kudos for doing it. I don't think there's anything wrong. But there's nothing wrong with giving kudos.

No, I mean. Because let's not forget, when he signed the contract, when they made the announcement, he had no experience essentially, right? He had not even chosen what team he was going to be a part of. He had not even chosen what weight class he was going to. going to be in. And you know that there was some point where the going got tough, right? I mean, I don't imagine the back surgery was probably a big. Or the shoulder injury. And I asked him this question at the press conference. I was like, look, man, you know, you're,

you're clearly emotional right now. And I know in large part that's because you lost. But I was wondering if that was just some of the emotions coming out of this whole journey. And he, you know, he confirmed that because there's no denial. You go on Twitter. There's so many people crapping on you. so many people doubting you and it's not like you're going out to do a show like I am and that's one thing you're going out you know in your underwear and you're about to get into a fight and he knew that when he signed up but he could have backed out a long time ago and again I'm not trying to turn him into a sympathetic character I'm not trying but let's not forget what just happened here a guy went

into a cage and said okay let's go and lost and got beat up in the process and got paid a lot for it but guess what Steve Miotich got paid a lot more for it as well because he got paper viewpoints and probably a lot more people know who Jimmy Rivera is now and who Fabrice Redoum is and who Joanne Calderwood and Jessica Androge. So there is a trickle-down effect that Mickey Gall is now a prospect in the UFC and he's going to get some opportunities. Like, bottom line is, in my opinion, the good way outweighs the bat in this whole experiment. Now, is it something that I want to see the UFC do all the time?

Like, do I want to see them sign the Miz next week? No. But I think that there was a story there of a guy leaving his old post and coming to a new world and putting in two years on. that stuff that, you know what, for one night for 15 minutes, and it was maybe a little more than that with the walkouts, wasn't the worst thing. It's fun. It's why we talk about this sport. It's why we like this sport. It's fun. It's different. It's not conventional. It's just different, and I don't mind that. So you're saying you wouldn't like to see this all the time, though. Of course not. I, you know,

I don't even know if I want to see it ever again. You know, it happened with the pro wrestling angle. I don't know if, like, Wesley Snipes wants to get a way. Yeah. What about the, that though. On a serious note, what about that? It can't, look, James Tony was what? UFC 118, what was that? 2010? No, no, no. Really? Yeah, yeah, it was like 2000. It was 2010 because UFC 112 was

2010. Oh, wow. So, and I know James Tony's different than team punk. I know that because he has the boxing background and all that. But, you know, that was six years ago. If it's once every decade, if you want to sign me up for once every decade, some, you know, some freaky fight where the UFC is able to, to build the opponent into something more. They didn't really have to build Rang Gator,

but it was a nice little feather in his cap. Then, yeah, I have no problem with it. The circumstances have to be right. It has to be the right story. The guy has to apply himself. You can't deny that as well. It's not like he sat back. There were a lot of questions about Tony and his training.

He didn't do that. You know what I mean? He tried to become a better judicious practitioner. He tried to become a better wrestler. He tried to become a better fighter. But it just didn't work out for him. I also, I mean, the UFC is just not going to go after anybody. So it's going to be very rare from their side as well.

My guess is they won't be doing something like this for a very long time. And that is totally fine. It can happen every year or so because that just what, I mean, that's, yeah, that's not what the UFC should be about. But let's stop pretending like the UFC is the best of the best. You know what I mean? They own 99% of the top 10 in every division. Yeah. But that's not to say that there aren't great fighters in Belator and World Series of Fighting and, you know, all over the world.

and that's not to say that there's some fighters who are in the UFC who aren't quote unquote UFC caliber. What does that even mean at this point? It doesn't mean anything. They're an organization that is home to 500 fighters. It's impossible to say that those 500 fighters are the very best 500 fighters in the world. That is an inaccurate statement. So I have no problem with a Mickey Gall being there, a Sage North Cup being there, a CN Punk, you know, trying this out for 15 minutes on a card, I have no problem with that. It does not devalue any single person on that card or in that organization, in my opinion. What did you feel about the WWE doing the mocking of Sam Punk?

I didn't like it. I didn't like it. And look, again, I have no problem with saying that for the first time in my career, I may be a little biased when it comes to this story. And why am I biased? Because I met this guy before I ever knew that he was, you know, a possibility for the UFC, a possible MMA fighter. First time he was on the show was September of 2011.

and I got his contact information from Paul Heyman. And I reached out to him and he was a very big start. He was the WW champ, I believe. And isn't it crazy someone pointed out to me last week that that interview was conducted at the queue in Cleveland? How crazy is that? Also crazy that his last day in WWU was there. But anyhow, he couldn't have been nicer.

He couldn't have been more accommodating. He couldn't have been more eager to be on the show. He was a great interview. And then when I was in Chicago in 2012, I was like, where do you want to do the interview? And he's like, let's just do it in my apartment or his house. people don't say that. People who I know who I cover all the time don't say that, aren't that accommodating. And they could have been nicer to us over there. And we did in 2012 and 13 and 14 and 15. And this past week, you know, I was like, hey, I know there's a lot going on.

Do you mind doing an interview? Absolutely. When do you want to do it? Came to our hotel room. You know, walked for 10 minutes to come to our room. Like, so I can't help but feel like I knew this guy before. And here's a guy I'm sort of friendly with. When I went to Paul Heyman's, daughter's but mitzvah, and he was there too. And we were leaving. We didn't have a chance to really talk. I was there with my wife. He rode the elevator with us down just to talk for a couple minutes. So, yes, I have an affinity for the man. I'm not going to hide that. I'm not going to lie about it. And so maybe that's why I feel a little bit more sensitive when it comes to these things. When it comes to his story and his endeavor, and I mean, he just couldn't be more nice to me.

And I thought that the WWE thing was low class. But that's what I expect from that organization. and I know that they do that sort of thing, but here you have a guy who you're involved in a lawsuit with, who he's sort of, you know, he's sort of touched on this, that they're trying to, you know, they're trying to squeeze out everything they can from him, and they're even going after the interviewer, Colt Cabana, I mean, what is that?

And then you mock him for making that walk. I think it was Dolph Ziegler and the Mizz. They've never done that. I know Ziegler was a collegiate wrestler, but you've never gone into a cage, and, you know, put your body on the line in that respect? You've never done that. What are you mocking the guy for?

So to me, I thought it was low class, but, you know, maybe I'm taking things too personally. Okay. Let's move to Mickey Gall. Let's move to Mickey Gall. Mickey Gall versus Sage Northcutt. How do we feel about that fight? Is that the fight to make? There is an important thing to discuss here when talking about this fight.

They don't fight in the same way class. You know what I mean? Mickey Gall is a very big 170 pounder. Sage Northcut is a 155 pounder. Now, he fought a 170 in January, but he lost that fight, and he went back to 155. So, look, that aside, it's 1,000% the fight to make. Gall's promo was fantastic. Dropping F-bombs.

I mean, I think Gall kind of turned heel after the fight, right? Kind of turned heel a little bit. By the time, I mean, by the time we got to the press conference, he was the baby face. Yeah, I guess. I don't know. I thought it was a great promo. I thought it was a great idea. I love the fact that this kid who was just 2 and O going into this fight,

now 3 in O, 2 in the UFC, gets it better than veterans, calling people out, going after the poster boy, going after punk. I mean, he just has something that, you know, the song, I thought that was brilliant to end up playing the song after it seemed like they took it out on Embedded. I mean, the kid just gets it. And I think he is someone to watch.

I will be watching Mickey Gall fights. I will be watching Sage North Cut fights, and that doesn't make me less of an MMA fan. That doesn't make me someone incapable of recognizing that these guys aren't heavyweight fighters in the sense of like they're big stars or title contenders, things like that. I could recognize that there's a prospect worth watching.

And in boxing, this happens all the time. There are guys who come out of, you know, the amateur game. And the whole system is different because guys will fight an amateur for a lot longer than MMA. But you can start watching them. and seeing them grow and they'll get a bunch of fights. There's nothing wrong with that sort of approach. So those are two guys that are on my radar that I care to watch.

There's something for everyone right now in the UFC, and there's nothing wrong with that. That's why I like this card so much. You had the Calderwood-on-Drage fight, which is an interesting strawweight fight. Then you have Faber Rivera, which I love the booking, you know, sort of old versus young, the punk thing for Doom Brown and their story in the heavy.

I felt like there was really something for everyone on that main card, which is why I liked it so much. I'd like for that fight to happen, and I'd like for Mickey Gall to just keep picking. the next opponent. I think it'll work out well. Verdum and Edmund to Verdean. First of all, you said earlier

that you felt that Edmund was at fault for this, that he shouldn't be there in Verdum's face, correct? I thought that, okay, this is how I felt about the whole situation. Fabrizio Redume has just competed in a 50-round fight. He has just been punched.

I hope not. 15 minutes. Excuse me, 15 minutes. Well, boxing. He has just been punched in the face, kicked. It is a grueling endeavor, correct? I felt like, sure, you can make the case that Verduem should not touch him, should not push him, should not kick him. But if you're going to come up to a fighter who has just been involved in a pretty, you know, strenuous activity against a guy who he does not have the best relationship with, I don't think you should be yelling obscenities. at him. I don't think that's the smartest move. And let's be honest about the physical nature of

the kick. It was like a shove at best. Not condoning it, not saying he shouldn't get a slap on the wrist, not saying he shouldn't get a fine, not saying any of that. But let's not make this out to be something that it's, you know, something that it's not. Let's not make this out to be, you know, a mountain when it's really a mole. And let's not forget who instigated it. In my opinion, Edmund instigated it. If he doesn't start yelling at Verdume, Verdom's not doing that. And should Verdom hold himself to a higher standard and act more like a freshman? No. It's not his place to be yelling at him.

You're saying you won't say that he shouldn't be fine. He shouldn't have a slap on the wrist? I am saying that. He should not. That's where he's at work right now. He was in the cage because he had just fought. And you're coming to his job and taunting him and all this. stuff. You deserve that.

What is going on there? I don't know. I was sitting right in back of the cage where Brown's corner is, and I only went out there for the last three fights for Punk, Verdume, and of course, Miocchich, and

I'm hearing the guy, like, yell at him. Like, he's not offering any kind of, you know, advice as far as the fight is concerned. He's just like yelling at him from the top of his lungs and towards the end. he's losing his voice. I don't know what is going on there. I really don't.

But in either case, clearly, Verdoom's actions were defensible, if anything, a small slap on the rest. Steppe versus Kane Velasquez. One of the more intriguing matchups, this person is suppositing. But is it going to be hard to promote? You mentioned this earlier.

You were talking about perhaps the promos for this are not going to be fantastic, but the in-cage action is something you're looking forward to. Is it going to be difficult to promote this fight? I don't think so because I think that there's enough, especially not in Cleveland. And that's why I think that it needs to happen in Cleveland

because that's the best place to sell the fight. That's where you're going to make the most money. I mean, they got a $2.6 million gate. And I think that Miotrich is an even bigger star now in Cleveland. Because when I was leaving, people were coming up to me like, you were at that UFC fight. Yeah, Cleveland won. You know, they're very proud of where they're from in Cleveland.

That's what I learned over the weekend or over the weekend. or over the week being there. Like, they love Cleveland. And again, they're not just wearing Cavaliers gear or Indians gear. Although they should be. Well, they're just wearing Cleveland stuff on top of everything. I mean, I saw Cavaliers gear everywhere. I saw it, you know, at the CVS store.

I mean, it was everywhere. Good, good, good, good. But they're just like, you don't see a lot of people walking around wearing New York gear. I mean, I guess you do. But you get what I'm saying? But I do. They have a lot of pride. I understand it.

But how many times can you go to that well? Do you think you just keep Steep A in Cleveland forever? Not forever, but I think the next week. fight should be there. And especially if he wants to take some time off, I have no problem with his next fight being in. Wait till the Cavs win the championship. Again?

Again. That's too long. And then... You can't take that much time. No, it's next year. Where were all the Cavs players on Saturday? Not a single one came to sport them. What's up with that? No.

You know, busy, busy. But I mean, clearly this is the fight to make, yes? Did Verdume put himself in the conversation or no? No. Kane Velasquez for the title. Verdume JDS. Jimmy Rivera. He beat Faber.

First of all, what does this mean for favor? Are we finally seeing a slowing from him, or was it Jimmy Rivera being too good, a combination of the two? What kind of read do you get on that fight now? You know, a good win, a solid win over, you know, obviously a legend. It gets his name out there. I think what's missing now with Rivera is just a couple finishes because that's just the way the game goes, right? The game goes where you need some finishes to get. But how many guys are out there finishing your Rai of favor?

I know, I know, but that's the way fans are. I mean, it's crazy to me that the guy is, what, 21, 20 and one. He's won, what, 18 in a row, no, 19 in a row, and he's still ranked, you know, in the bottom half of the rankings. He's like 12 or 13 or something like that. I'm sure that's going to go up now. But, you know, that's kind of crazy. I wonder if they're going to give him that big of a jump.

What's next after favor? I mean, it's hard to give him a jump after. I would love to see him fight a, you know, uh, uh, Dilla Shaw, a caraway,

if he wants, but like, I, I, I, I would love to see him fight. I think he's a very

impressive fighter. He's a tough fighter. He's a greaty fighter. Um, he fought the half of the third round blind. But again, okay, here's the thing.

Like, Mickey Gall, they did a great job, bring him to the press conference. They did nothing for Jimmy Rivera. Like, he didn't show up to the open workouts, but Faber did.

He didn't show up to the press conference. Uh, I don't know why. I thought it was a mistake to do the press conference personally. I thought they should have done more of like an ultimate media day kind of thing because they're, you know, it's hard to do a workout slash scrum and then a press conference the next day because you're essentially in the same kind of setting, if you get what I'm saying. Nothing good is going to come.

Nothing new is really going to come out of it. Although we did get Sienpunk's thoughts on Tim Tebow, thanks to yours truly, by the way. So that's what I thought that they should have done. But I get that though because... Push the guy a little more, no? CM Punk and Gall are there specifically for that. Clearly we're not about to get the, you know, rankings climbing, barn burner of a fight that puts you on the mat.

They're there for the spectacle. So therefore, they have to be at the press conference because that's what they are. That is why they are here. Whereas Rivera has worked hard and gotten here. And when he beats Uriah Faber, people are going to take notice regardless of whether he's at the press conference or not. Would it have been beneficial to have him there? Sure, you can make that case, yes or no. But I think that wasn't his sole purpose, whereas Gall and Punk, clearly, that's,

what they were there for. That said, beating Uriah Fabor is a feather in your cap. No doubt about it. Do you think Fabor has gone down? No, I think, I think, no, I don't. I think Fabor is still kind of where he was, and I think that this was a statement for Jimmy Rivera. Now, we'll see how Fabor looks in his next outing.

And as I think I believe I said last week, like, at a certain point, guys hit the wall, and it's typically going to be one fight, and then after that they're not the same. We'll see if this was that one. But I didn't think that I was looking at a Uriah Faber who didn't look like he could still win fights in the UFC. That is not who I saw. I saw Jimmy Rivera that took a fight from Uriah Faber

and looked good doing it. He beat up his leg. Who knows, you know, if Faber's next opponent is going to have a similar strategy or have the same tools to do that. I think I learned more about Jimmy Rivera than I did necessarily about Faber. He still looked game and viable.

viable. And I think Rivera looked really good. Yeah, I thought so too. And he gets it as well. I mean, he's talking about what's next. He's still talking a bit of smack while being respectful. This is a guy who, you know, who has really, you know, he's done it the right way. And let's not forget he lost on the ultimate fighter to Dennis Bermudez, which is kind of

crazy in hindsight that they were matched up together in the fight to get into the house. But once again, 135, in my opinion, it just feels like there's a new face, a new prospect, a new potential contender that emerges every few weeks. And now we can 100% add Jimmy Rivera to that list. Hopefully he's a little more active because his last fight was in January. It feels like it was so long ago. But yeah, I'm definitely keeping an eye out on him.

On the weird meter, where the UFC 203 rank? I don't think it was that crazy. I mean, look, UFC 203 on the whole week was bizarre with the first we get Ian McCall for the second time in less than two months, loses an opponent. Ray Borg gets seriously ill, has to pull out. Remember, UFC 201, he was going to fight. Ian McCall was going to fight on that card. And then, what was Justin Skaggins has to pull out due to a bad way cut. So they book him right away. He was on this show. Book him right away. UFC 203. And then he loses another opponent. That's crazy. So that was a sign of things to come. Then we get the CB Dolloway situation where multiple Zufa employees are getting stuck in this hotel elevator. the Wyndham Hotel, a very old hotel, wasn't very nice. When I went to go interview Joanne Calderwood,

I didn't stay there, but I was like, man, you kind of wish that professional fighters would get nicer accommodations than this. But truth be told, there weren't a lot of great accommodations in downtown Cleveland, if I'm being honest. I really enjoy my time there. The downtown area is very nice with all the restaurants and bars, and then the queue is literally across the street from Progressive Field. It's a very nice area. But the hotel, when trying to book my own weren't great. And then they're in this hotel and people are getting stuck. And then a ton of fighters go in after the way-ins and C.B. Dahlwe gets hurt.

His back, he suffers a back strain and, you know, they, he has to, he has to bail from the fight. He withdraws from the fight due to an entry. Now, I will say this. It did kind of feel like there were too many people on that elevator from being honest. For Doom, Medeiros, Brad Tavares, C.B. Dulli. away, Halfel Cordero, Justin Buckles. This is off the top of my head. But there were a bunch more, some UFC employees I saw. So perhaps they kind of brought it upon themselves. But yeah, the whole thing was weird. And then like, just little things like what happened on Saturday as we

talked about. It was just kind of a... It was a different one. Overeign. Overim was late for the way-ins because of the elevator. I got to tell you, the official early way-ins are my favorite thing to cover. Thank you to those who watched it. I did a Facebook live stream where I called the entire two-hour thing, and then Overeem shows up five minutes late, and Bernie Profato is one of my favorite characters now in the sport, sweating profusely up there, puts his foot down, and finds Overeign $500 for being a couple minutes late. Overeign without a care in the world. I mean, the whole thing was just great theater. You sit there, there's a bunch of guys that show up early in the morning, like Verdume is rubbing the sleep out of his eyes, and it's in a small, it's kind of

a throwback to the early days of the UFC when the Wayans were just in a hotel ballroom, but this is even smaller. There's like five media members there, broadcasting the whole thing. I love it. And I think they're, quite frankly, I think they're missing out an opportunity by not showing this to the public. And it feels a little weird when you're, you know, you're sitting in the arena seven hours later and watching them weigh in again. I know you're getting the faceoffs and all, but it does, like, there's always that moment now after covering these new wayans where before these ceremonial wands where I'm like, man, what have I done with my life? I'm watching. the same people weigh in in their underwear for the second time today.

And I know the second time is a fake one, but you get my point. But I love the early way in. So that was another weird thing, Overeem. I'm probably forgetting, oh, I went to this pro wrestling show and Matt Riddle is there killing it. I had no idea that Matt Riddle was some kind of like media darling or internet darling as far as his amateur. Oh, no, it's like his indie pro wrestling career is concerned.

And Shane and Bazler killed it. I was more impressed with Shana Baylor than Matt Riddle, by the way. Shana Bazler's match was fantastic. Dan Severin's on the card. I mean, the whole thing was very memorable. I had a ton of fun. Our interview with Joanne Calderwood was great. Unfortunately for her, she lost, but it was just great to cover one of her fights for the first time in person.

And did you see her Instagram post where she gave a homeless man tickets to the fight and then he leaves her this note afterwards? I mean, how do you not love Joanne Calderwood? Incredible week. Nick Lentz dropping a massive pipe bomb? Oh, stop it. What about Nick Lent? I mean, unbelievable. You didn't like that?

Let's not even talk about this. Why? I mean, no. Nick Lentz is amazing. That was his best interview. Because I will admit, sometimes with the poems and the tweets, I'm like, this is not really Nick Lentz. Yeah, we know that.

Ghost written. Hey, based off of what I heard and saw on Saturday after that fight, he was phenomenal. Absolutely phenomenal. Nick Lentz versus BJ Penn, they should scrap that Ricardo Lama's fight right now. Just scrap it. Just scrap it for everyone's sake, except for everyone's sake, except for Ricardo's and book Nick Lens. Yeah, except for the other guy in the fight.

Yeah. Okay. We also got the announcement, Jocchere is facing Rockhold. Does this mean that inevitably Chris Wiedman versus Romero is going to happen? And who gets the title shot out of those guys?

Does it really just depend on performance? What do we have, you know, playing out a middleweight right now? So initially I heard that they were going to do Weidman versus Jules. Jacare and then Romero versus Luke Rockhold. And I thought they got it all wrong. And I understood the line of thinking. The line of thinking was Romero beat Jacaree.

Rockhold beat Weidman. He didn't beat Jacare. Well, officially. But I thought they got it all wrong because Jacerre and Rockhold have the history. And now you found out that they're going to fight in late November in Melbourne. Apparently, Rockhold got what he wanted or is relatively happier now than he was back on this show two weeks ago. Or maybe three weeks ago. know it was two weeks ago. And to me, Romero versus

Weidman is the perfect fight for MSG because this is the reincarnation of Iron Sheik versus Hulk Hogan, circa 1984. This is the hometown guy, America's sweetheart, the All-American from New York, fighting in MSG for the first time against Joel Romero, who, let's be honest, is somewhat polarizing, somewhat controversial, sometimes doesn't really understand why he's considered this sort of bad guy talking about Jesus

and, you know, don't forget Jesus and the, the thing with Tim Kennedy and then the Jacari Fiber people don't think he won and then the failed drug test. I could just foresee if Chris Wyman wins that place exploding into a USA chant.

And now people are more invested in Wyman and puts them over. So that's the fight to make. That all being said, it's not done. This is one of the first times though. Let's assume this gets done. Yeah. This is one of the first times in a long time that I can remember

if any of these four guys has a super impressive performance, they're next for the title. Well, how about the fact that if Hendo wins, right? If Hendo wins and truly vacates the title, what's going to happen then? Oh, wow. Do they make Wyman Romero? Yeah, well, no, they do the winner of these two fights.

Okay. Fights for the vacant belt. Or do they just make one of those fights a title fight? Is that weird? I don't know if I love that. You just make it a mini tournament. Yeah, you do the tournament. Because as I said, it feels like if any one of these guys has that performance,

they're in there. What would be the case against them, you know? Yeah, no, I like that idea as well. I was just wondering what's going to happen. I mean, I don't even know, to be honest, if, I'm not convinced that Hendo's going to walk away. I'm not calling him a liar, but I just can't foresee him winning that lottery if he wins and just saying, what a way to go. It would be. What a way to go. And he is, you know, he is up there in age, and it would be the perfect ending to a legendary career, but I don't know. Be the one. Do it. Please. It would be great. That would be, well, you know, you have to win first.

But if you do, be the one to do that. And let me just say something, because I see all the White Knights now tagging Joe Rogan in my tweets and things of that nature. I have a ton of respect for Joe Rogan. I think that I've never been one, you know, in the early days, people were like, oh, you're the comedian, what are you doing calling the fights? I think he is the greatest ever do it. Hands down. He is the greatest color analyst in MMA history. And one of the best in combat sports history, if we're truly being honest.

I just felt that the tone throughout the night was a little bit off. I didn't love the rolling of the eyes at the promo. I didn't love some of the things that he said. I thought his post-fight interviews with both of them were very sincere and on point. I just thought... Is that Joe Rogan? I just thought that it was off. And, you know, hey, this is why I don't love to talk about other media guys.

I'm just expressing my point of view on the way those... That night was called. And I felt like that tone was better reserved for his podcast as opposed to saying it on the air when you're trying to sell the fights. I mean, at the end of the day, the UFC is controlling that production. They're trying to sell the fights to the public to get them to watch. And to me, I thought it was counterproductive. That's all. Who knows?

Maybe they could have sold half a million more pay-per-views. I don't know if you've heard about this, but these energy guys, they are killing it. they want to sell us a prank call at this point no no just more energy let me leave you with this and then I'll get our guest yes Donald Seroni he is often the one

stepping in for somebody who needs an opponent in this case he's the one who needs an opponent what happens with Donald Serroney who's going to step in and face him well there is a long queue and he wants to fight on the card he wants to remain on the card I mean I kind of feel like the Nick Diaz fight would make everyone forget about the sadness that they felt when they heard that Robbie Loller was out.

You know, there's a guy named Habib Nirmagamadeov who is saying that he would fight him. If Eddie Alvarez gets the title shot, he's saying that he would fight him at either 155 or 170. And let's not forget the history between those two. I would be down with that. Habib versus Cowboy Soroni, sign me up. I mean, we've been teased of this one quite a bit, but I would certainly be down with that. So yeah, it's an unfortunate thing because I think a lot of people were excited about that fight. But if I'm being honest, I kind of feel like it's in Lawler's best interest.

It really is. I feel like coming back that soon in a fight that you know is going to be a grueling one, you know, the fist will be flying. It's a very big stage. I mean, the guy needs a break. He really does. And he's been doing this long before the title run. I actually give Lawler a lot of credit for saying it's just,

not the right call at this point of my career. I mean, that takes a lot. Considering how excited everyone was and the reaction to the booking and the stage and the story of, you know, the first show at MSG, a typical fighter would sometimes not think rationally and be like, yeah, I'm just going to do it and it's important and this is the right thing to do. I kind of feel like it took a lot of courage for him to say it's just not the right call. And I'm sure there were coaches and managers and mentors and people close to him involved. But that is a tough call, especially for a guy like Robbie Lawler. So major props to him. Okay. There's only one way we can end today's show. We have spent, you know, close to three and a half hours talking about him, his opponent,

and his fight. So it is apropos that we end today's show with the one and only Mickey Gall. America's sweetheart is joining us on the phone right now. Mickey, are you there? I'll try it again. Mickey, are you there? Okay, maybe not. I mean, I hear something going on, but maybe he didn't hear my whole intro. Mickey Gall, are you there?

Newark, Rick, are you ripping me? I promise we will get him. Mickey Gall. Okay, we're going to get him back here in just a moment. Mr. Mickey Gall, are you there? Yes, sir, what's going on? Oh, there he is. You missed my whole intro.

I said that there's only way, one way that we can end today's show, we've been spending close to three and half hours talking about you and your opponent and your fight. So I very much appreciate you coming on, especially after landing in Jersey, not that longer. Are you back home? Yeah, I just got home. Just got home to Jersey. What was it like coming home? Were there streamers everywhere, parade? What was waiting for you when you got home? There was like, I met a couple people in the airport who said, hi, said like the job or like, like, as I walk by, they go see you and pull.

but, you know, a few nice people. I had to shake some hands. It was cool. When you were dreaming about this opportunity from the get-go and what could come your way if you beat him and, you know, the aftermath and the reason why you need to put yourself out there and call the man out, when you were thinking of, you know,

just everything that comes along with beating someone of his stature, does it equate to what you're feeling in the last 48 hours? Does it equate to what you've experienced since actually beating him on Saturday night? Yeah, man Dude, Saturday night It was the most fun I've ever had

I was saying that leading up to it It was like that It's going to be the best 15 minutes or less Of my life And it really was man Coming out and like At the queue And just hearing like all the people

I was just looking around at the crowd Of all the people Just feeling Hearing them, feeling them It was amazing That was really the best part You know now I just I keep you know

singing back to it and just wanting to be back there in the cage. But, yeah, you know, it's great, man. And now, you know, it looks like I'm going to, hopefully I want to get another cool fight. And, you know, I get to do it again. Oh, what do you got? You got some news for us? No, man, nothing. But I heard a lot of people who were tagging me in that interview where Dana was saying they're going to,

that stage is people are interested and they're going to try and make that fight happen. Okay, so there's so much to talk. said they're going to make that fight happen. Right. But, okay, what weight would that fight be at? 70. He's coming up. He's coming up?

Could you make $155? If I... I'd have to have a really crappy month to really limiting things. You know, not eating it. And I guess I can do it. But, you know, I'm really glad to hear that he's willing to come up. And that was his plan. He was planning on coming up.

The next fight was going to be at $170. I'd heard that. Oh, okay. when did you make the decision that you were going to call him out on the microphone after the fight? I've been thinking about it for a while. That just seemed like a fun fight, man. He's getting some nice attention, and he's a fun, aggressive fighter, young dude. And I know, you know, I know I could take it to him and I can beat that kid up.

And do you think it will happen at MSG? That'd be awesome, man. that'd be a dream come true. I have no idea. Anything I really don't know. I hope so. That'd be great. To steal a pro-russing phrase, it kind of felt for a second that you were sort of turning

heel on us afterwards because like there you are dropping all these F-bombs, calling him corny. He's, you know, he's beloved by so many. He's just a very innocent guy. Was that the goal here? Were you trying to turn into a bad boy? Yeah, well, I guess when it's between me and Sage, I'm a bad guy. I'm a bad guy You know

If I wasn't in the In the fight business I probably wouldn't Say my opinion on him And be Loud and say that I think he's corny and stuff But I am in the fight business

So You know I'm here to sell I got sell fights But I do That is the truth I would never lie I mean I do think

I think he's kind of a corny kid You know But And But you know I've no Like I said in the first The real message

I want to get out Man I have no hate For anyone you know, and I don't hate him. I just, it'd be great to fight him. Okay, let's talk about the week in Cleveland. You get there.

Did everything go right? Did you just feel like you were in the right place? Did it all feel like it was coming together? And did you ever worry that for whatever reason the fight wouldn't happen? You know, crazy things happen in the sport. I mean, a damn elevator broke and CB Dahlwe had to pull out. Were you ever worried just because it was so damn unique and so damn big for you that it wouldn't happen on Saturday?

Um, you know, I, uh, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I mean, like, I, I, I, like, I, I, like, a day of, my last, I, like, a day of the fight, um, so, um, so that got me a little nervous. I'm like, oh, oh, no, am I going to get sick, and then a huge opportunity I'm gonna have to really, you know, uh, uh, I was going to pull out, but I was like, damn, I'm going to have to really trudge through with wanting to crap my pants half the time. But, you know, came fight time, I felt, I felt good, and there was nothing that was going to stop me. What do you think that was? Like, were you sick from food, or do you think you were nervous? Yeah, what I do is I always prepare all my own food. My mom does. She helps me out big time.

And she, you know, she slaved in a kitchen because we have a whole lot of food I bring out, you know, notice. saw all good weight cut food. So I'm saying full and stuff. But the fridge that I got in the room wasn't good, and I think my food went bad. I think the fridge, like, it really wasn't cold. I found that out too late, and I was eating these veggie turkey burgers that, you know, gave me the shit. Wow.

So again, that hotel in Cleveland strikes again, right? The elevators, the fridge isn't cold enough. What's going on? Did you have any elevator problems? Dude, that place must be cursed. Yeah. Yeah, well, yeah, for waiting, they only had one run in by the end, and, you know, so yeah, I had to wait really long, but, yeah, I had to wait out of there, but not, no, no bad problems. I'm like, my buddy C.B. Dalloway, that stink, man. All those guys stuck in there and he hurt himself. It felt really bad.

When you guys were at the Wayans and he refused to shake your hand, did that change anything for you? got me a little more excited like at the time like I was going in there and I remember peeking through the curtains before I walked down and seeing all the people and I was like oh man it's crazy I came in with a big smile on my face all happy excited and I knew you know we were going to stare I anticipated him

maybe doing something you know maybe trying to you know anything you know I was going to be ready for it and then yeah he didn't shake the hand so it got me a little a little like souped up like oh man I want to fight this you right now

but uh you know nothing much when you got to the locker did you hear that he said I was stuttering yeah I did hear that yeah yeah no man I was speaking I was speaking perfectly clear he was probably just focusing in so hard

that his ears were turned off and and to be clear what did you say to him I'll say exactly what I said I said I said you and you guys probably read my lips I go you're an actor You're still acting.

You're acting hard. I go, we're going to fight tomorrow. And then I go, you know what's going to happen. I was like, yeah, I'm going to hurt you. And then when I turned around to walk off and he kept staring at me, I was just like, keep looking at me. And I like, as I walked away. So then you get to the arena on Saturday.

What are the feelings? What are the emotions that you're experiencing? I was good, man. You know, in fights, there's always a mixture of excitement and nervousness. You know, let's say it's like a 70-30 excitement to nervousness. You know, weird feelings going on your stomach. I'd say this is probably a 90-10 excitement to nervousness. But, you know, as it gets closer, as a fight creeps closer, you start to get a little more nervous.

And then once I started walking out and I heard the crowd, I just felt amazing, bro. I loved it. It was such a, it was the experience of my life, best moment of my life, well. was walking out there, getting in there, knowing I'm going to get to play in front all these people. Now, there was a little twist, a little surprise, because on Embedded,

you get the phone call from Dana saying that he's nixed your song, and everyone gets pissed off about this and start tweeting about it and all this stuff, and then they play the song, hey, Mickey, you're so fine. When did you find out that they had reversed chorus?

As I'm about, as I'm standing there. I'm standing there, like they have the cameras in front of me. My whole team's behind me. They're like, it's go time, go time, you know, all that stuff.

everyone's saying. Now, a sudden I started hearing the boom, like I started hearing the beginning that song, I look at them, I'm like, did they switch it? Is this me? Am I going now? And then they're like, yep, yep, we're rolling, let's go. So I found out right there when everyone else did.

Did you find out what happened? Why they decided to change their mind again? Joe Silva told me after the cage, he told me, he was like, yeah, man, I told Danny's got to play he make years are fine. But at the Wayans, the ceremonial wayans,

And Dana told me, he was like, dude, I'm getting fucking abused online for this, hey Mickey stuff. So, you know, I think the people online, it, you know, it shows. Yeah. You got, you guys are heard. Everyone, we got a voice out there. Yeah. That was great. I love the way you walk, like, you walk out, you're like, you're slicking your hair back and stuff.

Like, you're just cool as a cucumber, not a worry in the world. You didn't feel anything. No, I mean, I feel it. You know, but I just know what I'm going in there. I'm going to go do what I do every day. I've been fighting people in the gym and beating people up since I was 16th. And I've become good at that. And I know that's all it is.

All what there is in there is me and one other guy. I just got to beat up one guy out there. So yeah, it's excited, man. It's fun. When the fight starts and he comes charging at you, is this a foreign idea or did you expect that? Did you expect him to do that? I kind of expected it.

I thought, you know, I had a feeling he was going to feel like I have something to prove. I need to show I'm a fighter. I'm a fighter. And, you know, once I get in there, I let my training take over. I'm not thinking in there. And he, you know, crossed the line where, you know, the line in my head of how far he should be. I'd like keep him out at a certain range. And when you come in that hot, I'm just going to, I'll take you down.

I was like, I'm just going to, you know, my body did it. I just changed levels and took him down as he came in that aggressively and quick. What was your game plan? Like, if it was up to you, how were you planning to start the fight? I wanted to work my stand-up. I've been working really, really diligently training my stand-up with Sean Diggs. And it really, I've really cleaned up a whole lot of stuff. Like, I've been saying, like, the version of myself to fall on February, like, I'd work that,

I'm really proud of what I've done the past six months in my training. You know, I've just, I've been, I've been ruthless. I've just been really committed and, you know, I've just been very smart about it. And I wanted to be able to, you know, I saw the videos with him and I want, I would have knocked him out. I want to get a knockout. So that was a plan. But, you know, and if he laughed at, I knew, you know, I've been doing great to jiu-suitz with David Dee since I was 16. And I knew I'd beat him there too.

was he at all tougher than you thought he would be or was he exactly as tough as you thought um i mean you know i knew he'd be i figured he'd be tough man those wrestlers are tough guys are slamming themselves around and stuff uh you know i guess it was it was pretty much what i expected i knew once like he got in there with me i was gonna just be able to to dominate him and uh you know i started hitting him and then i was just i was taking my time working the choking, playing the hands. I wasn't going to overcommit on anything too crazy. I knew I'd find my, I knew I'd find the submission or town him out eventually.

So I was just, you know, playing with both of those. There was one point where he was defending and you were going for the rear naked and he defended it eventually you got it. Did that even surprise you? I mean, I'm just wondering what your expectations were of him, the fact that he was defending. No, I was high on the face. I was across the mouth. Uh-huh.

I did see the video, and they were like, oh, it's in. It wasn't in. I was just cranking his head a little bit. And I was going to start sliding it back and start and slipping my hands back and forth. I was just giving him a little head squeeze. Just for good measure? Yeah, for good measure. You also gave him a cauliflower ear as well.

Did you see that? Yeah, I saw that thing. That's a badge of honor for you. It's a badge of honor for him. For him, too, yeah. You know, I got a cauliflower. too and I'm you know I'm proud of that I put I've been you know dang it around for a while and that that's why I got that he earned that car fire year yeah um he should be proud of that

do you recall the emotions you felt when the fight was over when you you came to realize that you did it you beat CM Punk you're the guy you get that rub what was going through your mind at that moment when you're celebrating I was excited man it was a long time coming uh you know it's a long time coming and then fight week you know makes everything like like really the last like, I'd say three weeks. When they started showing our promos and stuff on TV, I just couldn't wait to fight, man. I just, I couldn't wait to fight.

And then, you know, when it's all over, it's like, it was nice, it's nice, it's nice, man. Winning a fight, there's, like, there's nothing you could shoot, snort, or smoke that feels like that. I don't do those other things, but I do love the feeling of win a fights, man. And then shortly afterwards, he comes up to you and talks to you

and you guys spoke about this afterwards he said you know don't ever feel like you don't belong on the poster on this stage etc and let me know if I'm missing anything there but that seemed to be the general message did that surprise you

that he went up to you that quickly and told you that? Yes and no in hindsight I guess not you know I didn't expect I wasn't sure how he was going to be after the fight like I saw the way he was with other people around um he was kind of you just kind of

awkward all fight weeks in our little interactions together. So I wasn't sure what's expecting this guy. I'd see him with other ones and everyone else and he's all smiling and, you know, trying to be like a, he's like the jester, like he's like, you know, making jokes and this and that. But, you know,

so yeah, it was nice to him. He was trying to be motivational. I appreciate, you know, he, like I said, man, I respect that dude. He made himself a superstar. There's talent there. I'm sure there's a lot that, you know, I can learn from that guy in that guy's experience.

Was there any part of you that felt bad for him? No. You said that like a stone cold killer. Yeah, no, if you, you know, you signed a paper to fight me, I'm going to be going in there to kill you. All right. Speaking of signing papers, the word came out earlier today about the disclosed pay. Have you seen this? I'm sure you have.

Yeah. What's your reaction to punk making $500,000, and according to this, you made $30,000 for that fight. What's your reaction to how much he got paid? That's about what I imagine. That's why I was hoping he missed weight. I guess 20% of that. So you're not bothered by this as much as so many other people online? No, man, it's cool.

He's a superstar. There's a reason why he's there. Without him, I'm not in that spot either. So that's cool. I mean, you know, it's, yeah, it's all good. I'm not mad at that, no way. Did you make $30,000? Did you make $30,000?

Yes. Okay. Maybe you got a little bonus, too, I'm imagining, right? No, I got $30,000. All right, all right. Do you, if you're the UFC, do you consider doing something like this again, or should they not play this game anymore?

No, whatever. I think a lot of people were interested. It brought a lot of, you know, a lot of WWE fans to watch. A lot of guys who wouldn't have been watching who like the violent stuff, who like, you know, this type of action brought them over. And, you know, I've heard of a lot of people who've gotten me saying, hey, I watch this fight with punk and, you know, I'm an MAA fan. So I think it worked. I think it was a smart move and I think it worked.

Did a part of you feel like you had a duty as the longer time mixed martial artist to beat him convincingly? Like you were sort of doing this for the sport. Kind of in the same way, like the Randy Couture James Tony fight, I mean, it's very, very different. But like that as the guy who has been doing this for so many years, you couldn't let him win? I 100% felt a strong obligation to make an example out of him. Okay. I felt indebted to my sport, to the veterans of my sport, to my all. my everyone in my sport to go in there and dominate every second of that fight.

100%. And I asked Jim Miller this question earlier in the show. Do you feel any kind of resentment, not from, you know, I know there's going to be haters, but from people in your gyms, you know, the ones that you go to, maybe when you go visit someone here or there, do you ever feel any resentment like, oh, man, I've been doing this for three, four, five years, I have 15 fights and CFFC and like, look at you, look at all the love you're getting. Do you feel that at all from your peers?

I don't feel it, man Everyone around me, they know me I know them, and we're You know, we're cool Like I always say, man, there's guys You know, speaking at CFC Sean Shorty Rock Santella Andy Main

These dudes are freaking studs, man They should be in the UFC They'd be They'd be tarrished it up But for whatever reason they're not there yet I hope that changes And there's so many guys That I can mention that, you know

That belong here And I hope get here very soon Yeah You know, now comes the tougher part, if you will, because now you're a part of the UFC roster and you're going to have to, you know, prove your worth, so to speak. Do you look at that welterweight division and already, like can you confidently say that you're better than, you know,

a good portion of it? Like, do you feel, even though you don't have the experience as far as pro-MMA's concern and people like to note that, do you already feel like you're better than a lot of the people in that division? Yeah, yeah, and I'm only going to get better, and I have to get better. There's a lot of areas that I know that I need to work on, and I'm going to. I'm not, this just made me more hungry. This is all, this opportunity just makes me want to be, it makes you want to be a champion even more.

I love it. I love, I love fight week. I love, I love fighting. I, you know, I want to be the champion. So I'm going to be back in the gym, you know, in a day, and I'm going to be back at, you know, perfecting my craft. I want to be a UFC champion, and I'll make sure that happens. Did any of the UFC brass, you know, Dana, the new owners, anyone else come up to you afterwards, and if so, what did they say to you?

No, not a lot from the brass. I get a lot from the brass. You know, I thank, I sent some messages just thanking, you know, I thank Dana, thank everyone for the opportunity. But, yeah, you know, so we're trying to make that super stage play happen, and I hope that happens. I like how you always call him Super Sage, by the way. You don't just call him Sage.

You're always calling him Super Sage. Is there a reason for that? He's Super Sage, man. He's Super Sage. Have you ever run into him? No, I've never seen him. Huh. Do you think that CM Punk will ever fight again?

Yeah, I think he'll have another fight. I would have said, and maybe I would be wrong, but I would have said he would have another UFC fight. but now I'm seeing them saying that he won't that his next one might be elsewhere but so you know I think he absolutely will I think that dudes you know has hunger and drive and I believe he will have another MMA fight have you had a chance to sit back and smell the roses here I mean a year ago no one knew who you were and now look at you I mean it's unbelievable this is one of the most talked about fights in you know in 2016 so much has changed

in such an amazing, amazingly short amount of time. Is this all a little surreal? Are you impressed with the way you're handling it? How do you feel about just what's happened in your life? I mean, your life is drastically different than it was exactly a year ago today. I'm not impressed with my potty mouse after the fight. I did figure I'd maybe say NF word, but I said too many of them. But, you know, man, that crowd had me jacked up.

I'm doing great. No, I'm not too impressed In myself. I'm staying humble. I got a lot. I got big plans. I got a lot I want to do. And, you know, just getting started. I've been, so far, I've been relatively lucky, man.

If you look at the guys I thought, they're not super experienced guys. They're not real killers. I got a lot of killers I got a face, and I'm going to be very prepared for them. How far away do you think you are from being in contender discussion? How many fights or years? Let's say I beat Sage.

That'll be a big fight. Man, and you know how I was saying? I didn't believe I should be on, like, the main card and on the poster stuff. Now that I got a taste of that, that's all I want to do. I want to get a main card every time. I want to be on a main card every time. I want to fight Sage on a main card. I want to be in front of the big crowds.

I want, you know, I like that. I like being under the lights. So let's say I beat Sage. Now I beat the next guy and the next guy. I got to be getting close, right? Wow. So you caught the bug. Oh, yeah, I got it bad.

Yeah, and is it going to be weird? You know, a fighter told me recently that, like, when you prepare for a fight, and there's so much going on, and you have this crescendo in front of the world, and then going back home on, like, a Monday, there's this weird sort of depression that kicks in. Even if you win, do you feel like it's going to be weird to go back to sort of normal life for the next few weeks? No, man. It'll be nice, because I've been in war. mode for the past, you know, like six months for real. I'm going to take, you know, a couple days and, you know, be light. I'm going to do things lightly and let my body recover a little bit, just from like working my ass off in camp. But then, you know, I'm going to, uh, yeah,

you know, I don't think it's going to be bad. I, I do wish I could, I can get that feeling of being in a cage again. I can't wait for that. Hmm. So you'll probably get that. That's just say I think there's the only hangover or whatever you call, the depression from. I just want to, I love that feeling, man. That was, that was a nice high. By the way, do you still train at Henzel Gracy's? I've been meeting to ask you this. I've really planned on going back there. Do you not? Are you being sarcastic? No, no, no, I will. That's great training. I don't know what happened with, you know,

I was kind of, at first off, my feelings were a little hurt when Hensel said I was going to lose by Ghi. Yeah. But then I was like, maybe he'll make people think this guy has got a shot against me, and that could make it a little more interesting. You know, I don't know. I think, you know, Hensel knows me. He knows my, I thought he did.

He always said hi to me at tournaments and stuff. He knows my coach. And, you know, so, you know, it was a little surprising to hear that. But, you know, I respect Henzel. I love Hendo, man. I've been a fan of his. I have, you know, I got, I got Henzo stuff. I watch Hendo movies.

He's one of my favorites ever. So, you know, but it was cool, man. I don't care. He can say whatever he likes. He's a man. He's earned it. Next time you see him, will you take it up with him? I don't know.

Maybe. Yeah, probably. I got it. I wouldn't, yeah, I don't think I just let that say. So Hensel, what was that about, man? Yeah. So I was like a guillotine? Come on, dude.

Come on, yeah. Just make light of it. Make a joke. But I feel like you got to bring it up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll probably bring it up. What are you doing to celebrate now, now that you're home? Are you doing anything fun? I'm going to actually go play with my baby sisters.

I have a four-year-old and two-year-old little sister that I'm going to hopefully go swim in the pool with in a little while. Oh, nice. Yeah, yeah, you know, just see some people. I plan on in the next week at least to hang out some people that, you know, that my training has made me neglect. You know, I don't, I can't hang out with friends. unless they're my training partners, really, because I'm just, I'm at, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm trying to make some time for some special people. And do you feel confident that it will be MSG your next fight? You don't think that's too soon? No, I'm ready. I'm ready. If it's MSG, let's do that. That'd thrill me. I'd love to fight on that card. Like I said, now, the Jersey boy, that's my backyard. You know, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm right. I'm, I can spit to MSG.

All right. So, I'd love to fight there. Well, man, again, congratulations. What a story this is, and, uh, you were the perfect guy for it all. You nailed it from the opening callout up until the pro's fight press conference even now. I mean, you are something else. You really get the fight game. And like I said, when you weren't on the show, there are some veterans of the sport who I feel like don't get the game like you do, the game of calling people out and moving up the ladder and all that stuff. So kudos to you. Congratulations, Mickey. And I appreciate you coming on, you know, moments after you just got back home. I'm sure you want to chill out a little bit and looking forward to having you back in studio, perhaps before the MSG fight against Super Sage. But

Again, congrats, enjoy the victory, and well done on everything. It's great to have you in the UFC, and very happy for you and your family. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Myself, my family, we appreciate it, man. And thanks to Frederick Chevrolet for their support along the way. All right. We'll talk to you soon.

Thank you, Mickey. Later, buddy. All right, there he is. Mickey Gall. A name to remember, a face to remember, defeats CM Punk via first round submission. Rear naked choke. Super Sage. It's going down. Sounds like it's going down, right? New York, Rick? I would love to see that. That's the one. That's the one. You're sold. Oh, come on. I mean, that's the fight. Like, there's, now I almost don't want to see anything else from either of them.

It's just so perfect, right? Because his trash suck. You made a good point, though, about, about Sage, you know, going up to 170 and not having success there. It is for him a bit of a risk. But in terms of putting yourself on the map, these are the two guys that need to be facing off for sure. Jacquay Rockald, who do you got? Oh, don't do this to me. What? Come on. No, serious.

I'm going to... You sound a little hesitant. No, I've got Jacqueray. You don't seem too sure of yourself. No, I think Jacqueray wins. Although, I mean, right now, it's hard to pick against Rockle, but I think I think Jacqueray gets it done. Horier Johnson? Let me just finish on this

It's been too long He's never gonna get that freaking title shot Jokeree I mean It just feels like he Well that has nothing to do with who you think won Or is going to win I should say No but it just feels like

At a certain point he's been in the game too long And maybe he's reached his You know His point of diminishing returns But What you mean? No he's not that young He's not a spring chicken

and he's just been floating around. I wish the Romero fight, the decision had gone the right way, and we had seen Jacquet fight for the title. Because now this is another fight where if Rocco beats him here, he's probably not going to fight for it. It's, uh... Isn't it crazy, though, that this fight could have definitely been the next title fight, and now it's a non-title fight happening in Melbourne on FS1?

It's so crazy that this could have been the title fight. I mean, this could have been the title fight. And nobody did you with it. Yeah, for sure. This was the one. Porier, yeah, I can't pick against Dustin right now. That guy is firing. At 55, I mean, he looks downright unbeatable right now.

Yeah, he looks great. I like the Chris Wade Islam Makachev fight on that card as well. Yeah, that's fun. Kenny Robertson versus Juan Carnaro, Uriah Hall versus Derek Brunton. Who are you liking that one? That's a tough one, right? I think Brunson's really put it together.

I think he's going to out-wrestle him? I don't think at some point. point you would say, you have said that, you know, Brunson is almost exclusively the wrestler, but I think he's gotten his hands and, and is striking to the point where he may not need to go to that as much. I just think he's a little more complete than Hall, a little less gun-shy, you know, more willing to kind of fire. I like Brunson there, but at the same time, Uriah Hall is dangerous just because he does freaky things. When he does, you know, get the action going, he just does things that nobody else can do.

And what about my guy, as we close out the show, my guy Riko Verhoeven. I mean, what a guy. Performance, right? Chops down the legs of one Anderson Braddock Silva. Fantastic win for him. What a weekend for Dutch combat sports. They get 50% of the result. You know, I got to say, I was really surprised with the lack of support that Ream got from the Dutch

fans. I mean, I think I met like three or four that flew in. And maybe he's not as associated with Holland because he doesn't train out of there like Connor does. You know what I mean? It's been a while for him. But this was a big moment for the guy. I mean, this has been years in the making. Yeah, I don't know if the Dutch fans are taking their time. No, no, I was not going to say that are taking their time to go to Cleveland, Ohio. Why not? I don't know if that's... Whoa, whoa, what are you saying about Cleveland? It's a very nice town. It's a very nice town. You know what? It just reminded me that the 70, and nine Golden State Warriors

blew a 3-1-9. No, no, no, no. You are now backpedaling quicker than Reem was in that first round. No, I... Yeah, I mean, are there... I feel like there's only a select few guys

that that happens for. Yeah. But I thought maybe because this was his moment. This moment. And also, he just fought in Rotterdam, so I thought, okay, there has been this, you know, this excitement over him finally gaining the title shot.

I don't know. I thought there would be more, but I got to tell you. you the Cleveland fans, I swear it was deafening. It was deafening. It was. You took heat because you said it was bigger than the pop was bigger than Ireland. It was. They were exploding for every punch landed and it was a great fight and I think that they all got a little bit scared because it looked like Riem was on his way to the victory. The guillotine. Here's, oh, the guillotine. Yeah, I guess you're right. Well, he dropped them. I forgot about that part of it. But when he dropped them, he was in no rush to kind of get

down there, then it did look dangerous. Like a minute before, maybe less than a minute before, I said, something's got to give. I tweeted something's got to give because the punches that they were landing, Miochich was definitely rocked. In fact, he said in the post-fight interview that he thought it was a kick that dropped him. Oh, he was rocked, he was rocked, so he was rocked, and then Ream was rocked, and then the ground and pound, I mean, the whole thing was just go back and watch that fight. It was wild.

Big drama show. Triple G. He also won. He also won. What a weekend. All right. Huge. Anything else?

That was it. Yeah, that was it. Okay. We're out of here. We are done. Are you back next week? Are you taking time off? I forget.

I will be here like I will be every week. I would never disappoint the fans. Wait, that's an actual lie because you won't be here in two weeks. So you just lie to us. In two weeks, I will not be here. Unbelievable. Like my son this morning. The son this morning comes downstairs and he says that mom told him that he can have fizzy drink,

which is like a San Pellegrino, but a flavored version. I said there's no way this is true. There's no way she said you can have this for breakfast. Yes, yes, yes, yes, I promise. I promise. Four years old. So I said, all right, fine.

If she said it comes down, I can't believe you said that he can have that. I didn't say that. He lied to me to my face for the first time. A bold face lie just like you lie to all of us. You heard it here first, folks. Ariel Hawani, teaching his son to lie from a very young age. Unbelievable.

Just unbelievable. All right. We are done. You can hit my music. Another fun show in the books. The experiment, the chapter, the era that is CM Punk in the UFC. Has it ended? We're not sure, but of course the debut has ended.

Didn't go the way he wanted it. And again, as we talk about kudos for showing a lot of hard, kudos for making the walk, kudos for doing it. No one is more pissed off. No one can care less about all of this than him. and that's a pretty damn cool thing too and I think people are giving him heat for talking about the journey before the fight but the guy wanted to win

and it just didn't go his way and he fought a tough kid who is well on his way to potentially making some waves and he has done that already but he wants even bigger waves he wants even bigger prizes bigger purses bigger fights

how can you hate whatever Mickey Gall is doing and saying these days fun time I like that. I like this. Sometimes with a UFC event every single weekend, it's nice to get a break from the norm. It's nice to cover something a little different, a little wacky. No problems here. It was fun to cover. And well done, Cleveland. It was, uh, look, we've had our differences, but you have a beautiful city, and it was a pleasure covering the event there. Thank you very much to everyone

who tuned in. Thank you very much to everyone who stopped by. Thank you very much to John Pollock. Great insight, as always. Fantastic stuff from Jim Miller. Thank you to him. Jimmy Rivera. news as well. Congratulations. Alexander Gustafin, thank you. King Mo, thank you, Anastasia Yonkova. Good luck this Friday. And Mickey Gall, thank you very much as well. Back next Monday, same time and place until I say,

pay somebody. Support for this show comes from Chase. If you're a fan of women's sports, you're always looking for ways to get closer to the action. And your Chase card can get you exactly that. With a Chase card, you can experience more. That means access to pre-sales, preferred seating, and more savings.

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