MMA Fighting - The MMA Hour with Ariel Helwani - Episode 364

Episode Date: January 17, 2017

Ariel Helwani speaks with NewYorkRic to discuss BJ Penn’s performance at UFC Fight Night: Phoenix (00:08:36), then Jon Fitch (00:26:24), Rashad Evans (00:50:27), Chael Sonnen (01:12:23), Alan Jouban (01:34:01) Derek Brunson (01:56:21), Megan Anderson (02:15:09), Stipe Miocic (02:54:46), Mark Hunt and his lawyer Christina Denning (03:13:22), and finally NewYorkRic one more time to recap the weekend in MMA (03:47:50). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-by journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love?

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On this Monday, January 16th, 2017. Hello again, everyone. I'm Ariel Hawani back inside our New York City studio. Hope you're doing well. A happy Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Day to you. I think this is a great time to remember his legacy and honor the late Dr. Martin Luther King and a happy 88th birthday to him as well. In fact, my four and a half year old son actually just

started learning about him for the first time. And it was very exciting to hear him tell me about who he was and what he stood for and what he represented. So if you are home on this Monday afternoon, if you're off from work here in the United States, I hope you're doing well and enjoying the show live. We have a lot to discuss. Unfortunately, we kind of start off on a bit of a somber note. It's rare that the UFC does a Sunday night show and I'm not at the show and then get to do a Monday afternoon show, our regular time slot, because usually I'll be traveling home, as was the case the last two years on this mid-January Sunday night show and we'll have to do a Tuesday. So here we are, 12 and a half hours after BJ Penn lost to Jaire Rodriguez. And our worst fears confirmed Sunday night in Phoenix. What was interesting about this particular fight, as you may recall, we found out about it live on this show.

It came out of nowhere. It was not rumored or reported beforehand. It popped up on Twitter while we were doing the show around two months ago, and both New York, Rick and I reacted in real time. We digested it as we found out about it for the very first time. And if you go back to that clip, if you go back to that segment of the show, it turned out to be exactly what we feared it would be. It was not the right matchup. It was not the right time. It was a lopsided booking.

It was, you know, BJ Pan, a guy who had not fought in two and a half years who was coming out of retirement, fighting a 24-year-old superstar in the making, a future champion. There's BJ Penn. And it was just, it was baffling at the time. it was unsettling. And then over time, I think some of us, as New York Rick spelled out last week, there's sort of a 12-step process to being a BJ Penn fan. I think some of us started to warm up to it, started to believe, et cetera, et cetera.

And then you watch the fight on Sunday and you remember why you felt the way you did when you found out about it. And some people were asking me afterwards, are you sad? Was that sad? Was that depressing? saying, I mean, there's an element of that, no doubt. To me, it was more disappointing. It was watching it made me mad. You know, he should have never been in that fight to begin with. Again, for the millionth time, they got it right the first time. They got it right with the Deniseever fight. Prelims, less pressure, an opponent, his age, on the decline, and then every other step of the way. And unfortunately, BJ Penn is a casualty of the fact that there are

very few headliners right now in the UFC. They had to put him in the main event for Manila. They had to put him in the main event for Phoenix because they don't have big names available right now to headline shows. And so they put him in a very tough spot, a spot that someone at his age with the experience that he's had over the last two and a half years should not be in. You don't use BJ Penn to build future stars. Not right now when he looked so bad in his last fight, you try to build them back. If you're going to be back in the BJ Penn business, in my opinion, you build them back up. And here's the problem. The reason why we love BJ Penn so much is because he takes these fights, is because he says no to anyone. I guarantee you if the UFC

would offer Brock Lesnar to BJ Penn tomorrow, say, hey, Thursday night, you're going to fight Brock Lesnar. Do you want it? I guarantee you, BJ Penn says yes. It is on his team. It is on the UFC to know better, to almost protect him from himself. Retirement did him no good. He was uncomfortable. He didn't know what to do with himself. He didn't know how to handle it. He was a fighter his entire life. And then all of a sudden it was taken away mid-30s. What the hell do I do with myself? And he went down the wrong path. Retirement did him no good. The Hall of Fame induction while a nice gesture was not well received on his part. He didn't know how to handle it. He was not ready for that. And so this was his way of getting back on track.

It gave him a purpose. It gave him a reason to wake up. He did all the right things. He went to Jackson's. He got out of his comfort zone. He did all the right things. But at the end of the day, you could do all the right things

at this stage of your life. If you're going to fight someone like Gaiyre Rodriguez, who is that damn talented, who is that unorthodox, who is that amazingly gifted on the feet and in all facets of MMA and who is only getting better each and every time. I mean, he is the very definition

of a blue chip prospect, Yeira Rodriguez. And look what we saw. I mean, first time in over a thousand strikes, BJ Penn has knocked down. He's finished in the second round. Unsetting, uncomfortable, everything that we thought it was going to be. And so that's that. You hope that this is it. You hope that he's able to find something else to do. You hope that he's able to walk off into the sunset and be proud of his career and remain healthy and happy and content and be a loving father and husband, all his faculties intact. And you hope that other fighters, and you know this won't be the case, but you hope that

they watch this and they say, you know what, if I'm going to keep fighting, maybe the miracle crow cop way is the way to go. You go, you know, you get some nice little matchups and then you say goodbye. You don't allow yourself to be used as a stepping stone. And I get that's how fight sports work. The older guys, fight the young guys, you build the stars. But at some point, you got to pick your matchups right. and you have to have people around you who say, you know what, this is, this is not the right fight,

not now two and a half year layoff, not against Jaya Rodriguez. And the problem is, the biggest problem is, this fight was booked to build Yairair, and he doesn't get the credit that he deserved because everyone's focused on how unsettling it was to watch that. Much like the Frankie Edgar situation of two and a half years ago. Frankie looked fantastic, right? He looked fantastic in that fight, the third fight, the third win over BJ, and yet everyone focused on how the pressing it was to watch BJ in that state. And that's the same thing that happened last night. And this time, we don't even get the goodbye. We don't get the press conference. We don't get the

post fight because it's happened so many times. This is not the way to go out. Anyway, we'll talk a whole lot about that in just a minute. Let me run down today's lineup. A lot of great names, a lot of great guests. And then I have someone I need to speak to. And this thing keeps up, I promise you, I saw some people say that I've gained a lot of weight. It's not, it's not the weight. It's just keeping me on my toes. Okay, 410. We're going to be joined by Mark Hunt. He was in the news last week, suing the UFC, suing Zufa to be more specific, Dana White and Brock Lesnar. You know the story. We'll talk to him and his lawyer at 410. 350, Steep Amiochich, the reigning, defending UFC heavyweight champion.

Steep Amiochich, will stop by at 350. 305. Megan Anderson, one of the big winners this week. The new interim Invicta featherweight champion, she'll stop by, talk about her win on Saturday. at Invicta FC against Charmaine Tweet. What's next? The call out, all that and more. Derek Brunson, did you hear the news? Derek Brunson is fighting Anderson Silva, UFC 208 in Brooklyn, Barclay Center. Where did this fight come from?

Derek Brunson, coming off that loss to Robert Whitaker, will join us at 245. Alan Jo Ben, making his MMA hour debut, coming off the win over Mike Perry in Sacramento. He'll stop by at 225, 205. Our old French Hale Sunnan will stop by. Preview this Saturday's main event against Tito Ortiz, Belator, 170. 145, we'll talk to Rashad Evans, have been wanting to talk to Rashad since New York, what's going on with him, when's he coming back? And John Fitch will stop by at 125, the reigning defending World Series of fighting

Walterweight champion John Fitch. He's got a lot to discuss as well. But first, let us go to our screen over here and talk to, look, I was thinking, you know, should I get an analyst, should I get a reporter, should I get someone to talk about BJPen? There is no greater expert than our own New York Rick to talk all things, BJPen. you know by now, BJ was his favorite fighter, is his favorite fighter. He was very emotionally invested in this one. He has traveled to watch him in Detroit and Philadelphia. So New York, Rick, no better person than you to lead off today's show. Let's start with this. Sunday morning,

you wake up, you're going back home. You're in Kansas City, foreign victa. Okay, you're getting, now it's happening. It's Sunday. He's weighed in. Did you believe, or you always, always kind of watching with one eye open. Like, what were your thoughts as the day was commencing and you were getting emotionally ready to watch BJ Penn fight for the first time in two and a half years against the A. or Rodriguez? I was definitely cautious. I was definitely not expecting, I don't even know if I was expecting victory, to be completely

honest. I was just hoping for a better performance than the last fight against Frankie Eggers. So I was, I wouldn't even say optimistic. I was hopeful that he would give an accurate representation of himself and kind of, erase the memories of the Frankie Edgar fight where it came out on his tippy toes and all that stuff. So it wasn't quite, you know, rah, raw. It was more, okay, let's settle in and hope that this goes well. I'm sure you consume the pre-fight interviews, the media day, workouts, all that.

stuff, the wayans, you're looking at him. What are you seeing when you see him at this point? He's saying all the right things. He's doing all the right things. He admitted, you know, being embarrassed about the Frankie Edgar fight and not wanting to kind of go through that again and things that he's done differently. But, you know, I'm not, you know, no fighter, very rare. I mean, everybody's praising Joe Loz on today, you know, for keeping it real in the cage and saying he didn't think he won that fight. It's very rare for a fighter to say, I'm going through a shale. camp. I really don't feel that great. I'm not expecting to win this fight, even if those doubts are kind of creeping in. So I don't draw much from those kind of pre-fight interviews in the way of,

you know, even if you're saying the right things, you're not necessarily, you know, in a better spot than you were before. It doesn't add anything to me. It's more, you know, to get their demeanor and that type of thing. And BJ seem to be in good spirits, which is, which is a good thing. but yeah i mean saying all the right things doesn't mean that it's going to translate to a to a win in the cage so um i saw all those things um it didn't really change how i felt about the fight i thought you know this was always going to be um a matchup that that didn't you know bode well for bj just because of the age difference that that is a huge factor um he looked old he looked older did you not find i i've always felt that 145 while maybe size wise was beneficial to him

him, it just, it didn't wear well on him. I don't know. It just didn't feel right. But this is, go ahead, sorry. Okay, now I want to get to the fight. You're sitting there, you're watching it. He's walking in. They show him walking in with his wife, which I thought was a little off because you don't see that. You're going to battle, you know, ask Nick Diaz about that sort of thing, but fine. You know, this is a big moment. He's coming back, all that stuff. He walks in to the old song, not the remix, which you know two and a half years ago, I thought was a big mistake, a sign of weird things to come. he's looking ready and then the fight starts and what are you seeing at how quickly you say to yourself oh no again as I said at the top our worst fear is confirmed pretty much the first exchange

the speed difference was evident right away um and the game plan that he had you know to to initially kind of push yaya year up against the cage and try to take him down was a was a sound one yeah yeah but the the ability to shake that off let me know exactly what we were looking at. And then once they exchanged on the feet, the speed difference was clear right away. This is a stupid question, but I feel like I have to ask it anyway to you. Because I don't really get, you know, to be honest, like, I have the almost respect for the fighters and stuff, and I am a human being. I was, like, I didn't feel sad or depressed last night. I was more upset that we even got to this point, that this actually happened. For you,

what was more depressing? Yeah, I mean, this or the Frankie Edgar fight? No, the Frankie Edgar fight. It was more depressing. Yeah, because BJ had looked, you know, good, but there were always excuses we can make. And there's, that's actually a thing that, you know, comes up all the time when it comes to BJ Penn in his career is, you know, there's always like a reason that we can kind of pin or point to to have hope for the next time. Oh, he was fighting out of his weight class and, you know, potentially he didn't train that hard

for this one. Or there's always some reason people can find and I'm one of those people because. I kind of followed this from the start and was along for the ride and wanted to be along for the ride. There's always a reason. So the Frankie Edgar one, it just looked like no matter what the reasons were, that was absolutely abysmal. We can't have that happen again. We just cannot have that happen again. And then it comes to Sunday night and it happens again.

So I think the first time that kind of realization hits you is much more startling than the second because I was hoping for something better. but I had already accepted the possibility that that was what was going to happen. First round was a mess, in my opinion, at 10-8, especially with the new rules in place. Early second round finally gets knocked down first time in his career, and surely thereafter gets finished. I thought Big John gave him a lot of respect, but you could have made the argument that it went a little too long. That point, probably, you know, you're sitting on your couch. I know you didn't want to, I'm sure people are tweeting you.

So at that point you say to yourself, I don't want to see this man ever fight again. Well, that's what it comes down to, right? So I was thinking, I thought about this quite a bit just because I wasn't ready to accept the possibility of him not fighting again until the fight played out. Up until this point, I was just hopeful. Now the fight plays out and I started thinking about, well, what does this actually mean? What happens to this point? So the feeling that you want to get after a fight, even if you're,

even if the fighter that you're, you know, betting on or rooting for, whatever the case may be, whoever you're invested in, the feeling you want to get after that fight is, okay, we lost,

but let's do this different and run that back. This is what I want to have happen in the next one. There is nothing I can point to that BJ can build upon from that fight that I want to see changed and then have that happen again. I just don't think that there. anything there that I need that I feel uncertain about. There's there's absolutely nothing that makes me want to see that again. We saw the same kind of you know, one-sided thing with the Frankie Edgar fight. We saw this again. And the issue, the issue is, B.J. Penn's legacy was it

never wins and losses. There's guys who, you know, they're very, they're undefeated or the record was the most impressive thing. This was their resume. This is who they beat along the way. And they have very few losses to competitors. BJ's record was never his legacy. His legacy was always that he was the guy who would fight anybody at any time. And now that's coming back. In the start, that was what built him into a star. And that was what, you know, his kind of rawness, his kind of realness is what made people

gravitate toward him. But that inability to turn down a fight is now what's making it very difficult to kind of stay along this journey because he's too tough for his own good. He doesn't turn down fights. He doesn't say no to a guy who could potentially be a bad matchup. And even in this fight, he was fighting after the stoppage saying, I wanted to keep going, when clearly that fight was over. There's nothing to fight for. And his legacy, and I'll say this, I think if he did this five more times, his legacy would still be exactly the same.

It's not adding or taking away from his legacy because that's already set. We know who BJ Penn is. We know what he did. And this isn't really benefiting him. Obviously, I mean, there's nothing really to benefit from. But it's not hurting his legacy much either because that was already kind of established. And this is a continuation of what that was, which is, I'll fight anybody. I don't care.

Bring him, line him up, and I'll fight him. And he's continuing to do that. And at this point, it's to his detriment. And so, you know, I think we're all kind of in a similar spot. Anybody who, you know, has followed BJ Pan and really, you know, loved what he's done for the sport and followed his career, I think when all the actual, what's the word, expectation, when the expectation of winning is completely gone and all you have is the hope that he'll win, I think that's a bad sign.

You don't want to watch your favorite fighter like this, right? And say, please don't embarrass yourself. Please don't look horrible. And I feel like that's how a lot of BJ Penn fans were watching that fight. I went back and looked at that press conference after the third Frankie Edgar fight. And Dana White said, I don't want to make a single dollar. off these kinds of fights anymore, off these BJ Penn fights, Forrest Griffin, he talked about Chuck Ladell. And he's stayed true to his word when it comes to Matt Hughes, Forrest Griffin,

Chuck Liddle. And I can assure you, those guys at some point wanted to come back. Why did they let BJ Penn come back at this point? Is it because he was never a Dana guy? Because of the history, if you read the book, you know, the history with going to K1 and all that stuff, I don't know, but why A, do you let him back and why do you let him back against this guy? So here's my question. Here's my question to you. As a believer, if he fights, let's say, Dennis Siever, who's the name we always talk about. over the past year. Is it the same, like, does Siever starch him, or is it a much, is it a nicer looking

fight? Is it a more competitive looking fight? Which then leads to the next fight and the next fight and maybe, you know, delaying the inevitable. The absolute easiest thing to do right now would be to say, yeah, against Dennis Siever, he does better or against Dennisiever he beats him. That would be the easiest thing to do, because over the entirety of his career, it's always been, okay, well, if he trained a little harder, quote unquote, motivated BJ Penn,

he's going to come out there and wreck shop or, you know, oh, remember those fights against Sanchez and Shirk and Florian and the prime of his career. Yes, but those days are long gone. We can't get that. We can't get back to that. So the truth of the matter is, if he fights again, I'm not going to be watching. I don't want to see it. You will abstain from watching. I'm not watching it. I just can't because. Do you think he fights again? I think it's a high possibility because he's, as I just said, and I think everybody knows it. He is absolutely too tough for his own good. At this point, he has nothing to prove and he's still going out there. And I think the only way that anything can change is if people don't want to see him.

Because there will still be people. And my not wanting to see it will mean nothing. It will be a drop in a bucket. But there will be people who will still watch him fight. It doesn't matter. And it'll be maybe it's for the USC. Maybe it's for somebody else. It doesn't really matter.

I just can't. I can't, you know, invest. in this anymore. It's, it's hard to, it's getting hard to watch. I mean, that, that stoppage was was very difficult. Did you feel the same kind of disappointment that I'm expressing here? Like, I was upset that we got to this point and I know that we had to accept it and talk about it, but I still can't, this is one of the more baffling fight bookings in UFC history, in my opinion. Doesn't, because, Yairo Rodriguez was on his way to becoming a star. Is on. on his way to becoming a star. He didn't need this fight. I don't think that this result helped out Rodriguez

as much as they think it did. Yeah, sure, he's undefeated still. He's got the nice feather in his cap over BJ Penn. But I feel like the story should not be the depressing nature of the wind. It should be, wow, look at Jaira Rodriguez go. They finally have the Mexican-born fighter that they've been looking for. And that's not the story. It's not, right? Well, because of how bad BJ looked. If he gave him a competitive fight, then it would have been much more a credit to Yai- Yeah, we all saw this coming. Then the lopsided. Yeah, it's hard.

It's hard to, it's hard to separate, you know, what you want to see happen from what's actually going to happen. And that's, you know, why you don't bet with your heart. You bet with your head. But I just think that I'm not sure I'm ready to go that far and say that this was the type of booking where it was like, We should have never made this. I can't believe it happened.

But I think after a two in a row like this, there has to be some kind of, there has to be an end. There has to be a stop to this. Like, we just can't keep going in the same way. Okay, let me ask you this. Are you worried? As a guy who, you know,

you become emotionally invested in these individuals. You've never met BJ Penn, right? Something like that, yeah. Okay. Are you worried that, you know, the guy's going to keep doing this and hurt himself. Like, when you say save himself, the only person that could save him are the people around

him, right? But what is BJ Penn going to do? I mean, he had the opportunity. And at some point he's going to have to come to terms. No one's going to book him anymore. But he's still in his 30s. Yeah, I don't think that. What is this guy going to do on a day-to-day basis?

Because, you know, he didn't seem like he was happy in retirement. And, you know, he was going through some stuff. You know, it's hard for an athlete to come to terms, especially one who's that beloved, who's that successful, who's fighting. in MMA where you're on the marquee, you're like, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, what is he going to do with himself? Does that worry you? Yes, because if you remember, when he initially announced his retirement, my thought was you got to keep him away from

m.m.A because he's going to want to be back and that's exactly what kind of happened. Um, I think he just needs to find, he needs to find an inspiration kind of some doing something outside of this. And look, I'm not going to, I'm not going to, I'm not going to, I'm, I can't be the one to retire BJ Penn. That's just not a reality. And to be honest, I don't think it's a fan's place to kind of retire BJ Penn. No, no, but they can say exactly what you said. I'm not going to support this anymore.

That's all I can say. But I think it's up to the people, you know, closest to him to kind of guide him toward that if they feel the same way. Now, they may think, you know, there's things we can do, things we can adjust, but they have to really mean that. And it can't be, you know, a situation where getting him back in theirs is the only, is only to further whatever their agenda is. What's best for him is what should happen, and I think most of us can kind of see that. And to be clear, I don't think there was any agenda.

I do think that Jason Perillo in particular, and then Greg Jackson and of course Mike Winklejohn and Regan Penn care deeply about BJ Penn. They are not trying to make a buck off of him. If they didn't believe in him and support him, they wouldn't be there. They wouldn't support him. So I don't think that there's any sort of agenda there.

But it is amazing that the ones who reach the absolute mountaintop, the ones who are the legends, you know, the surefire Hall of Famers, the pioneers, if you will, their fall from grace, unfortunately, is a lot steeper and a lot more depressing to watch than the mid-tier fighters. That's just the way it is. The ones who have enjoyed the most success, the greatest fortune, the greatest moments always seem, you know, for the most part at least. seem to have these moments. And BJ Penn is one of those fighters like Fador, who has this deep, passionate fan base. They are so loyal to him. They love him so much.

I mean, he walks out to that song. With that look on his face, it's impossible not to get goosebumps. It's impossible to not want to root for the guy. He is very endearing. He is very likable. He is, in some ways, inspirational, the way he fights anyone anytime, just scrap, that whole thing,

the way he speaks, his tone, the conviction, the belief, that is someone that you want to get behind. You know, for all intents of purposes, you know, to the best of our knowledge, he's never cheated, he's never taken shortcuts. In fact, he's gone the opposite direction of shortcut. He's always punched above his weight. And so you want those guys to succeed. And they've given us such great moments.

And then to see what happens to him and to see the position that he was put in insurmountable. He would have needed the greatest. I mean, the greatest performance by far times a million, greater than any performance he's ever had, times 10 to beat Yaira Rodriguez, 14 years younger than him, and the gap was much wider than just 14 years. It was a talent gap. It was the gap of a guy who had been active, getting better each and every time against a guy who was out for two and a half years. I mean, it doesn't make sense. Still don't get it. tough to watch and you hope that that's it and it sucks because i don't want to be the guy to say b j pen needs to retire i'm not that guy i hate doing that but i agree i agree with with new york rick

you can choose as a fan what to watch and what not to watch that's the only thing that you can do i mean to me in my opinion the last great you know bj pen performance was one 27 against john fitch first two rounds. I remember watching that fight in person in in in Australia. First round, the game plan was fantastic. Wow. Clinching, wrestling, right out of the, right out of the gate with John Fitch. Wow. And then, of course, the third round did not go his way. That was the 10-8 leads to a draw. But since then, it has been a, unfortunately, a steady decline with more lows than highs. And I think if you're a fan, a friend, a family member of BJ Penn, you kind of hope. that that's that.

It's a bummer. He deserved better, but that's a fight game for you. Okay, let's move along. We'll have plenty more to say about Sunday night in Phoenix, but speaking of John Fitch, wanted to have him on to talk about his last win, what's next for him?

A lot going on in the life of the reigning, defending World Series of Fighting Walter Way Champion. He joins us right now via the phone. John, are you there? Yeah, I'm here. How are you doing? I'm doing great. Great to talk to you again.

By any chance, did you watch that fight last night, the BJ Penn fight? No, I didn't get a chance to see it. Do you, I had a lot of the play-by-play, usually on my Twitter feed. I usually hear about all the fights going on now. Is this something, you know, you're obviously, you're older now, you're still a champion, but is this something that you're afraid of, you know, people talking about you in this light? It was a hard thing to watch, especially those that love BJ Penn. But in the back of every fighter's mind, you dread this day.

Do you think about this a lot? I mean, just dreading the day when you can't fight anymore is pretty bad. I mean, winning or losing as long as you're fighting, you're still kind of winning. But I don't know. It's a hard call to make because ultimately the fighter's got to fight because he wants to fight and fight for himself, really. and if that's the way he wants to make money regardless of, you know, if he's winning championships or what,

if he's, you know, healthy enough to be licensed, then let him fight. Do you believe, and I know this may be a tough question for a fighter, but is it, does it fall upon family friends, managers, promoters to stop the fighter from fighting? Is that their place, or at the end of the day, does it always have to be the fighter who decides? because sometimes the fighter can't recognize that it's time to walk away, right?

Yeah, I mean, if there are physical, like, impairments, if there are physical things going on that are obvious, whether it's, you know, something going on with their brain or their physical body, then, yeah, I think the family member maybe should step in. But if, you know, but if the doctor doesn't seem to feel that there's a problem, I don't think that anybody should else should have a problem. problem with the athlete competing. Last thing on BJ, I don't know how much you've been watching him, but do you agree with me

that his last sort of, I don't want to call it great, but like, you know, competitive performance was against you at 127? I don't know how many you watched afterwards, but that's my opinion. Do you agree, disagree? Well, I kind of have that effect on people. But, I don't know, I think a lot of times it's when, uh, when, uh, I kind of have that effect on people. A fighter has a style and they fight for a really long period of time. It'll become obvious, I think.

And people start figuring them out. It's kind of like a video game. You played enough times. You start figuring out what's going to happen and what the timing is and everything. So I think it happens to a lot of the grades. When they don't vary their style up or their game plans up much, they start getting figured out. Okay, so let's talk about you now. We last saw you, New Year's Eve in New York, you beat Jake Shields,

the fight that we've been talking about for a long time. You know, it was hard-fought win, kind of the way we sort of expected it, two gritty fighters, veterans, and then afterwards, you dropped this bomb that that may have been it for you. That something came up, pre-fight testing, and you may be walking away. So here we are around two weeks later. Do you have an update? Will you keep fighting, or are you done?

We're still trying to arrange all the appointments on any. to get things looked at. They found a couple very tiny, they called 2T flare, Focy, F-O-C-I. Not sure how you pronounce that. But it could be nothing. It could be something from childhood, something they never picked up before, but like the equipment's so much better these days picking things up, they notice at this time.

so I had to do a second MRI just to be sure that I was you know safe to fight and you know I'm of course in ball right because they wouldn't let me fight if I wasn't right but uh I just want to make sure that I'm not going to you know start losing time and slurring my speech and whatever if I continue forward

doing training camps if I can fight for the fights but you know eight to 12 week training camp that really puts the uh the damage on your body and your head. And so for the uninform, can you tell us exactly what came up? Is this, was this a brain scan?

Yeah, it was an MRI. Okay. And it was basically said it was the two, two, three millimeter long, it was called a two T flare Focci, Focci. F-O-C-I. Okay. Which, um, which is in the front left, uh, white brain matter. But that could be nothing.

It could be something that I got in high school, you know, and it's just something that's there. It doesn't necessarily mean that I'm at risk or injured or, you know, I don't have any symptoms that would lead you that. And I've taken neuro tests recently, too, you know, and those are all checked out fine. I just want to be extra cautious, you know. Sure.

Did you have any reservations? I mean, they obviously cleared you, and I know the New York Commission is a tough one, didn't clear Rashad Evans, Al Jemaine Sterling, others. But for you personally, family man, husband, did you have reservations? Did you feel uneasy going into that fight against Shields knowing this? I mean, it was a little bit of a reality check, you know, especially since all this went down like a week before the fight. Wow.

So, like, I thought everything was fine until, you know, they said no, well, your MRI didn't come back clean, so now you got to go do another one. So, like, I didn't know I was fighting until Tuesday that week, a fight week. I was in New York on Monday still not knowing whether or not I would fight. Wow. And then, yeah, so I just, that kind of probably was why I was thinking about it so much that week is because, you know, I didn't know if it was something that was serious or if it was just something in the stand that doesn't really mean anything. but while you're in the fight are you thinking about it i mean is this going through your mind in the locker room in the fight that's a heavy thing to find out about just a few days before the fight now

yeah but no i didn't really uh go through my mind during the fight so much uh just like the leading up to it okay i think i had a couple couple few days where i really had a lot of thought on it and you know what what it means and what it means my family that kind of stuff. So what are you leaning towards doing now? I mean, I still want to fight. I mean, the second I watched back to fight, I already was taking on things I wanted to work on and go back and fight.

I mean, it's really all I've wanted to do for a long time. So I would have to kind of reinvent myself and figure out what I want to do if I can't fight anymore. So when is your next doctor's appointment? scheduled for? I don't even have anything scheduled yet. I'm still trying to find the right doctors to go to. Okay. So would it be fair to say that...

I'm not a very rich man. I can't just go out of pocket and go to anybody. So with that brain stuff, I'm looking for... There's some people out there doing studies and stuff they're doing it for free because they're trying to collect data. So I'm trying to go through those people. Is World Series of Fighting helping you at all financially? No.

I mean, I wouldn't really expect them to Because none of this stuff is You know, per se related to an injury That happened during any single particular fight Sure, but I mean, you are one of their champions And biggest names in the organization I mean, you know what I'm getting I mean, like if a basketball player

Got an injury, you know, walking outside with his dog The team would still support him Yeah, but I mean, I don't know The difference between an employee and an independent contractor maybe I guess Yeah, sure And so do you feel, is it like there is a legit chance that was your last fight? Yeah, it's a possibility It's, you know, it all depends on what comes back when I talk to the doctors

Okay, are you in a rush to find out? The other issue is I've had some, you know, spine and neck issue for a number of years, and that's been really bothering me, too. So if I can't remedy that, that's an issue that may push me towards retirement also. It's just too hard to go eight to 12 weeks when I keep having bulging discs flaring up, and then my fingers and hand go numb, and I start losing considerable strength from atrophy. It's just not. something I can continue with.

And if I do continue with it, it's going to get worse. And I end up having to have surgery or something. And then I'll be very restricted in what kind of movements I can do. And I want to be able to teach jiu-jitsu and wrestling and roll around with my kids in the future. So I kind of need that figured out somehow too. And how do you decide whether or not you're going to, you know, spar or how hard you're going to go in training with this still kind of hanging in the air? Well, I mean, I'll probably take a couple, a few months to figure out exactly what's going on and what the best steps are to fixing the problems or if there's nothing that can be done,

what to figure out what to do next. But, I mean, it'll be at least a couple months before I even try to spar or grapple hard. Okay. Do you feel, like, you get headaches or, like, are you dizzy? Do you feel any? No, that's what I'm saying. I don't think the brain thing is as big as issue as my neck. Oh, okay.

Wow. You know, yeah, my speech is fine. My memory's fine. My emotional state is fine. Like, I've never had any issues. I was a complete surprise having anything at all show up in my mind. But it's been almost seven years, I think, something like that since the last one. And the equipment seven years ago wasn't what it is today.

So this thing they found could have been present back then, but the equipment wasn't good enough to see it. Right. I remember a few years back we talked about this gig that you got in central New York, running a team, a gym and things of that nature. That's no longer a part of your life. But if suddenly you did, unfortunately, get the news that you can't fight anymore, what do you think you will do?

I'm not sure. I have to kind of throw a few lines in the water and see what I can come up with. do you want to remain in the sport? Do you want to coach a team? Do you want to be in that role that you were in a couple years ago, just with someone else, obviously? I mean, a big part of that is how much we can impact the sport and change the sport through the Mixed Martial Arts Fire Association

and the Muhammad Ali expansion act. Because I don't like the way the sport is right now. like how it operates. It wouldn't be fun for me to be involved with, and I wouldn't want to put my athletes who I care about into that kind of a meat grinder and basically be pimped out

while destroying their bodies to make somebody else rich. I wouldn't be comfortable with that. So if I can help get the groundwork started and build a framework, so we have a legitimate sport with mixed martial arts, then I think I would be excited about the sport again and want to take part in coaching

and helping other athletes out. You were one of the first big names to talk about these issues, and late last year, you know, it became the topic de jure. But here we are early 2017. The PFA seems to be on its last legs. We don't know the state of the MMAAAA. They've gone very quiet as of late. MMAFA is still around.

How do you feel about, you know, the state of associations and, you know, bringing fighters together and things like that in MMA. I mean, there seemed to be this big push and now that momentum, at least publicly, has weakened a little bit. Are you still confident that something like this can happen? Yeah, I mean, the Mixed Martial Arts Fire Association,

we've been around a long time, and we just do work. That's one of the things that there hasn't been a lot of press around us because we don't pay for it. We don't have the money to pay for it. We don't have investors. We don't have private interest groups out there promoting what we're doing. We're just

doing the legwork. We have a bill on the floor of Congress. Later this month, I'm going to D.C. to help lobby for the Maham Ali Act. We've accomplished quite a bit. The state of

free agency with the sport today would not be there right now if it wasn't for the fighters association. And these other groups that are popping up, they're only have been emboldened by the work that we've done in the past. And if they're not openly and forcibly preaching the need for the Ali Act,

then they're up to something because there's no other way to truly create a free market in MMA otherwise. What do you mean when you say up to something? They're up to making money for themselves somehow. They're going to try to wedge themselves in and continue to pimp the fighters in order for their own profit, rather than opening up the market the way it's supposed to be and making the fighters equals to the promoters and the commissions. Have you been disappointed by the fact that not that many UFC fighters have publicly supported the MMAFA?

I understand what they're going through, but it just takes a lot of education. one of the big one of the person who kind of started this whole thing really is Carlos Newton he's kind of the one who started seeing that something was wrong with the sport and started doing the research to figure out what was wrong with and discovered the foundation is what's broken and he always said that he thought he was a crazy person for a long time

because as he put it he was the only person he could see dead bodies right so like the underlying system of what what's going on with mixed martial arts today. Like when you start to see it, it's like seeing dead bodies. And then when you try to explain it to other people, they look at you crazy because you're telling them that you're seeing dead bodies and they don't see it yet. So we kind of just have to keep telling a story and keep explaining it to them. It's like explaining why the promoter shouldn't own exclusive contracts and control the title.

It only leads to corruption. And that needs to be splitting up. Do you think about that day at AKA several years back with the whole video game? and you getting fired and then being brought in and the concessions and all that. Do you think about that a lot still? Sometimes, yeah. I think that's one of the driving factors that keeps me going because it's something like that can happen to me.

Things like that have happened to other people too. You know, it's very rare that any of this stuff happens just one time. Do you regret going back? Like, do you think that given... In a way knowing now, like, because I've seen how many times they've bluffed and lied about what they were going to do. Now I think maybe I should have just been okay with leaving. Yeah.

Easier to say, of course, at the time, you know, you had a younger family. Yeah, hindsight, you know, 2020. But at the time, you know, I thought I was really, I had to make the sacrifice for everybody else. Otherwise, their careers were going to be done. And speaking of AKHA, you're back at the San Jose gym? Yeah, we moved back to San Jose. My wife started working in the Bay Area, so...

Wow. We moved back here. What was that like to come back to the gym after all those years? It's nice. They've changed training up. It's a lot more technical, not more drill-based guys take days off. It's good to see that they've adapted and adopted different things. And were you welcomed with open arms?

Yeah. They missed me, I think. Are you going to bump DC out of his cap? Chair? No, I think I don't have the time to really put myself and do that job right

because I'm devoting so much to my time to the Fighters Association right now. So I'm kind of putting more time energy into that so I don't have a time to be at A.K.A. and really be a leader on that level that I used to.

Do you enjoy the fighters association work? It's just it's a good fight. and it needs to be done. And I feel like everybody does know and feel that there's something wrong with what's going on and how the fighters are being used. And, you know, if I can just have a few conversations with people,

you hear them, you see them on their face, you see them light up because they understand that, you know, they could actually do something or change something. So, you know, it's rewarding to be involved with. Two last quick things. When do you think? I know this is a tough question, when do you think you'll know if you can resume your career?

Do you have any sort of loose idea? I would say in a couple months. Okay. And, you know, if you get the worst news, if you can't keep fighting, are you content? Will you be able to walk away and not feel like you have to come back at some point? Do you think mentally, emotionally, you'll be, you know, content with the idea of never fighting again? I don't know if I'll ever be. even when I'm 60 years old, I'll probably still wonder, you know, how I do against the new breed of guys.

So I don't know. I just, you just have to adapt to what life presents you, I guess. Are you dreading that? Like, are you praying that news doesn't come? Kind of, yeah, because I'd like to get some more fights on. I think I'm just starting to find my groove. Well, I got to say, it's nice to see you. with the belt after all these years.

Very cool moment. Kind of flew under the radar. It's nice to be seen with the belt. It's nice to be seen with the belt. Yes. And you're happy with World Series of Fighting? They're treating you well? Yeah, they are.

They're really, too. Treat me well. You know, I would love to be able to fight a little bit more. But, yeah. I think, you know, they're doing a good job. It's hard to compete out there when, you know, you have a monster like UFC, checking up all the deals and all the money.

Well, I wish you the best, John. Please keep us posted. I hope it all works out. I hope that you get what you want and that everything's all well and good. You're healthy, can keep doing what you'd love to do. Appreciate the insight, as always. Great to talk to you.

And congrats on the win, by the way. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. It's good to be on the show. Yeah. And good luck in D.C. Keep us posted as well. I will.

All right. There he is. John Fitch, the World Series of Fighting Welterway Champion, interesting stuff from him this morning. And of course, as I said, in my opinion, his fight against BJ Penn, the last time we saw BJ, you know, as a truly competitive fighter. Let's move along. I've been wanting to talk to Rashad Evans for around two months. Of course, he was supposed to fight at UFC 205, got some unfortunate news, kind of around the same timeline that Fitch was talking about and was pulled from the card. But before we move along with the show, let me quickly tell you once

again about my good friends over at Seekkeek. I love these guys. As you know, buying tickets online for sports and concerts has always been kind of a confusing process for a very long time. It's always been hard to find the best deal for that gamer show you want to go to and none of those older ticket sites want to change their older antiquated ways. But Seekig is different. They've come a long way and created an amazing app and website that makes it easier than ever for fans to buy and sell tickets. Seekik is always the first place that I go to to look for tickets to a game or concert. In fact, I was thinking of skimps. today's show to go to the Knicks Hawks game that happened at the exact same time they counter-programmed us at 1 p.m. Eastern time at MSG,

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Download the Seek app right now and enter promo code MMA today. Now back to the show. He is kind enough to join us right now on the phone. Rashad, are you there? Sugar Rashad, are you there? Yeah, Rashad, are you there? Oh. Hello?

Yes, Rashad. Can you hear me? Hello? Oh, Rashad? I don't think we have him. I heard him say hello a couple of times. I recognize that voice. Okay, we're going to call him right back. Rashad Evans, of course, was supposed to fight at 205 at MSG, New York City against Tim Kennedy, found out as he was in New York that he was not going to get cleared by the New York State Athletic Commission. Unfortunate News. And I do know that he is itching to get back in there. If you follow him on social media, you'll see him training in green. great shape. And I do think we have him back. Rashad Evans, are you there?

Hey, what's up here? How are you doing? I'm doing great. Great to have you on the show. Like I said, I don't know if you heard me. I've been wanting to talk to you for quite some time, so I'm very happy that you're on the program. Before we get to you, just as we're digesting what happened last night, did you watch BJ Penn's fight against Yair-Rodriguez? I did watch it. I did. What did you think? What did you think? As, you know, as a fighter who's obviously time catches up to all of us.

What is going through your mind when you watch that? You know, I hate to tell another fighter that he may need to stop because the fight is such a personal thing, and everybody fights for a different reason. And, you know, you never know when the fight is truly out of somebody. They can look like terrible. The next, you know, they come back and they can have a resurgence like you've seen so many other fighters have done, you know,

the Johnny, the Robbie Lawlers and stuff like that, and Fabrice Verduems and things like that. So you never want to say a fighter's dumb, but at the end of the day, like, I watched a fight with BJ, and my heart just goes out to him, because I know his heart and desire, he really wants to be out there,

but he just can't compete now. You know, and that's a hard thing to sit down and tell an athlete who's always been, you know, a step above, everybody else that he's no longer good enough to compete anymore. Is it on his team and or the UFC to stop him from competing? Because you know, like I said, I think if they offered him in Brock Leicester tomorrow, he would take that fight.

He's just that kind of guy, and that's why people love him so much. How do you stop him from fighting? You know, I think if, you know, a job for somebody, you know, the people who love him in his life, that he really trust their opinion, that he really, you know, that he truly fights for. Or, you know, maybe his wife sits down to have a talk with them or his brothers or, you know, somebody else who's really close to him. I don't really know who that person is, but I'm sure if, you know, somebody who really cares about him, you know, had a heart to heart with him and really, you know, just talk to him through it and really got, you know, got through him. I think that he may, he may listen to what they're saying. but I mean, like, for one, I mean, if you're going to come back and compete,

you're coming back and compete against, you know, the top guys in a weight class. You know, Yair is one of those amazing talent that you see with his new breed of fighters. And he's a guy that can get it done anywhere inside that octagot. And he's just super razor sharp right now. And to see him, you know, BJ Penn fight him is, is, You know, it was a mismatch from the start. Last time you were on the show, you were very candid about the state of your career and what you did after the fight in Tampa. Do you dread this, like people talking about you like this, people watching you and feeling bad and saying, yeah, maybe it's time.

Like, do you think about that a lot? Do you dread that? No, you know, not really. I mean, you know, I put it out there. And, you know, I haven't looked at best in my last couple performances. So I can see where that kind of talk. uh, grow some legs, you know, people start talking, but I mean, but it's just, it's just the way it is, you know what I'm saying? You put yourself out there and, uh, you know, people will, they will talk.

Um, you know, I feel like I've, I've definitely gotten a lot better or sharpened up, you know, those areas in the game, those holes that, that had me losing those two fights, but, you know, it remains to be seen, you know what I'm saying? I have to still go out there and then compete well, you know. So what's, you know, go ahead, sorry. No, it's just like one of those things where, you know, you feel like, I feel great. You know, I feel great and I feel like, you know, I've definitely shaking off some of the cobwebs and I've gotten, you know, confident in my ability to compete again.

And, you know, I feel like I'm, you know, back to where. where I need to be at. So, but these are, these are just words, you know. So will you keep fighting? I mean, what happened in New York, is it possible that that stops you from keep fighting? No, I'm going to, I'm going to fight. You know, the thing that happened in New York, it was, you know, pretty much just a misunderstanding with the brain MRI thing, because, you know, one, the radiologist, pretty much radiology

exam, and then he gave two different assessments. of of it. In 2013, he said it was absolutely fine. There's nothing. And then in 2016, looking at pretty much the same exact identical image, he said I had new changes, which to the commission was like, wait, if you have new changes to your brain MRI, then, you know, your brain is still injured and you can't compete. But, you know, upon further review and having, you know, everything looked at and tested

out the wazoo, it was pretty clear what happened. And it was just, you know, a radiologist not, you know, not doing due diligence. But at the end of the day, it cost me. And it is what it is. But, you know, I was able to put it behind me and move forward. That wasn't just any kind of car. That was MSG. That was you fighting in your home state.

How did you get over that? How did you react to that? That you were in New York already. How was that? Yeah, man. I was sick over it, to be honest, Ariel, you know. And in great shape, like probably the best I felt in years. And, you know, I really wanted to go out there and put on a good show, and it was just like everything, the stars were aligning.

And I felt like this is going to be great. And when that happened, it kind of put me in a really bad mental space just because, you know, I talk to the UFC and they're like, yo, this is not an easy thing to get by. And, you know, this could end your career. If it doesn't get handled correctly, this could injure career. And, you know, that's something, that was something very hard for me to hear. You know, as somebody who's very competitive, but more importantly, you know, felt like I still had a lot of tread left on my tires. And, you know, hearing that and, you know, seeing the right on the wall not being able to compete,

it was a really hard thing for me to get by. It really was. Do you know when you'll fight again yet? You know, I'm looking to fight early spring, March or April. Okay. You know, everything is cleared medically. Everything is fine, so I'm looking to get a fight as soon as I can. And, you know, I just want to get out there and I just want to perform.

You know what I'm saying? I feel like, you know, I've had a pretty good career, but at the end of the day, I don't feel like I'm finished yet. and I don't feel like I've, you know, am punchy or beat up or anything like that by any means, you know. And all my years of fighting, you know, I've only been knocked out twice. And, you know, you see some fighters who have 12 losses and, you know, they've been knocked out a few times. And, you know, people still say that they still have it. So, you know, it just goes, it just, it's all about right now for me just, you know, stay in persistent,

stand healthy, and more importantly, just stand confident in my ability. And the obvious event, for me, would be Buffalo, because you're from nearby Buffalo, Bill's fan,

all that stuff, you're from Niagara Falls. I mean, that's the home fight that you've been dreaming of, but the issues with New York State, you know, the commission, all that,

will that preclude you from fighting on that card? Do you not want to fight on that card? I want to fight on it, but, you know, with the New York Commission, you know what I'm saying? I don't know if it would be a good idea for me to try to, you know, try to wage my, put my hand in there and do it because, you know, if I can be guaranteed that I'll get the clearance or something like that, then I'll do it like, you know, that would be, that would be my alternate dream.

But, you know, with the way the commission is and things like that and what happened last time, I don't want to be, you know, flying on a plane coming in and they say, hey, you can't fight again, you know, because that kills more than anything. When you got to get your mind and your body ready and you're all revved up the fight for 10 weeks at a time and then they tell you that you can't fight. You know, it's just one of the most heartbreaking things that you got to hear, man. It almost had me in crime, man.

I was like, you know what, man? What the hell was going on? It broke your boy down. I can't imagine, especially you're making the cut to 185 so that's, you know, a process in its own right. I was told that you were interested in fighting Anderson, Anderson Silva, which I think is a fun fight, makes a lot of sense, but now he was just booked against Derek Brunson, so is that no longer

of interest to you? And if so, is there someone that you do want to fight? Yeah, you know, I was looking to fight, Anderson. You know, Anderson is one of those guys who, you know, I have a tremendous amount of respect for. He's probably one of my favorite fighters, you know, to watch, and I still got a ton of respect for him. But at the end of the day, this is, this is, we don't have a lot of time left in this whole business of fire. You know what I'm saying? I've already been fighting in the UFC for about 11 years now. And I'm like, you know, time is just going by so fast.

And Anderson's one of those guys I would love to compete against, you know. And it was looking like it was going to happen. And it was like, I guess, like, you know, he was saying that he wasn't ready to fight now, but he'll fight maybe in June or something like that. And then he takes a fight with Brunson, which I don't get. I don't know. Maybe he just didn't want to fight. me or whatever, but it is what it is.

You know, I was disappointed about that just because I wanted to compete against him, but, you know, he didn't want to fight. You can't make somebody fight up. They don't want to fight. Are you going to stay at 185 for your next fight? Yeah, you know, I've grown into it. I've grown into this 185 body now, you know? Oh, yeah.

And, yeah, I haven't really, I haven't got heavy again, and I've been watching what I eat. But I love what it brings as far as a lifestyle change and just, you know, I just feel young and fresh again, and I think that's one thing that once I got down to the weight, I started to realize, like, you know, I've been kind of slipping for a while at 205 just from a conditioning and training point of view.

You know, there's a one time where, you know, I would really push the envelope with just making sure that I'm at the peak physical condition. But now I see from how much I work I put in at 185 that I would, I was definitely slacking at 205, which is good, though. You know, I mean, it's the things in life that you see to help you open your eyes, and you just got to be honest with yourself enough to say, yeah, you know, and just, you know, I wasn't doing what I need to do. But now I feel like I'm ready, and I feel like I can.

And so with Anderson off the table, is there someone else on your wish list? You know, I was looking at Talas. I think that he'll be, tell his ladies, I think he'd be a good fight. Oh, yeah. You know, somebody that will always want to fight for a while, but, you know, I really don't care. And I hate to say that, answer because it's such a cliche a anthony. It really, you know, really doesn't show any kind of imagination. But coming from where I'm coming from, it's perfect because you got to understand.

I was so dangerously close to never fighting again. You know what I'm saying? until I step my feet back into that octagon, you know, I'm still, you know, on shaky grounds as far as me actually ever get a chance of fight back in the octagon again. So I'm not taking it lightly by any means, and I'm not taking anybody, you know, anything for granted. So if the UFC says, hey, they got to fight for me, and it's with this opponent or whoever, I don't care, I'm hopping all over.

And now I got to ask you this. You've always shot straight with us. You've always told us 100% the truth. So I got to come to you for this one. What's the state of the Blacksillians? Because from what I understand, Henry Hoof no longer there, they're moving gyms. I see you training with him. There's a combat club, MMA.

What's going on? Is the team no more? Is it splintered? Please inform us. The team, okay, well, the truth that it matter is the fact is that the team is splintered. The team is fragmented. And, you know, it just became. a very hard thing for for Glenn to kind of keep his you know keep keeping his grass as far as

keeping everybody together you know um Henry Henry Henry you know want to grow his brain and do his own thing and and it just wasn't matching up with with you know where Glenn wanted to go and you know that's part of the fragment another part of it is just the fact that you know we didn't have a gym anymore. You know, our gym was sold, and, you know, Glenn was supposed to build another gym, and then I guess they moved into a temporary gym, and there was some kind of falling out with the temporary gym,

so then part of the team stayed at the temporary gym, and then the other half of the team, or more than half of the team, went with Henry. You know, and I was one of those guys who went with Henry. So, I mean, at the end of the day, I got so sick and tired of going into the gym and having to put out these fires and there's so much drama and everybody's jockeying and pushing for position. I'm just like, yeah, I just want to train, man. You know, and there's a lot of other guys who just want to train. And that's what, you know, that's what the team was made for so we can all have a great training environment.

But when you start bringing everything else into it and all the drama, then it just got exhausted. So now the state of the black zillions are, we just, you know, I guess there really is no black slaves if you want to, you know, if it's all on the namesake. But for the most part, everybody or most of the people who was training at the black zillions, we're still training together. But the team is no more? That's not a team anymore? That's not a thing?

I don't know. I mean, I don't want to say it's not a thing anymore. I don't want to put the stamp on it to say it's not a thing anymore, but I mean, it's not, it's definitely not what it used to be, that's for sure. You know, it's definitely not what it used to be. And, you know, some of the other guys, they already, they started their own team. You know, they started their own team. What's that called?

What's that called? I don't know. I think it's called Team Fuji or something. I was looking on Instagram, and I was looking at some of the pictures, and I was like, I guess they called himself Team Fuge. I don't know why. I only know what that is, but. And you're not with that.

But yeah, man, the team is The team is splintered. Wow. But most of us, like, we all stay together, like, you know, AJ still with us and Michael Johnson, Usman, Gilbert Dorino, all those guys. I mean, we all pretty much stay together. Some of them just went their own way.

Are we going to, are we even going to, you know, the team that we have now, are we going to pick a new name? I don't know. We just kind of like just doing a training right now and not worrying about that. Because you got to understand, Ariel, it was so, so much drama. It was so much drama. It was, like, worse than 10 high schools put together, you know what I'm saying?

A bunch of gossiping. Yeah. It was really a buzz kid, the buzz killed even going to the gym at some point. And that's why, from my last camp with Kennedy, when I was training with Kennedy, I just kind of was like, I had like a nomad, like, mentality when it came to training. I'm like, okay, I'm like, okay, I'm going to be here, I'm going to be there because I didn't want to go into the gym. And I were going to the gym sometimes to get some good sparring in with some of those guys, but I wasn't there every day. I just made my own schedule and I just stuck to my own schedule and just did my own thing.

Like I was like, I don't want to have any part of it because, you know, I'm a caring person. And people start weighing on me too much of the problems, and then I get involved, and then it just messes up my mindset for doing what I need to do for myself, you know? So who's your head coach now, or do you not have one? I would say Henry Hoof. Henry Hoose and Greg Jones, you know, those guys still work together. And, you know, that's who we got right now.

They have practice every day. And, you know, it's like out near Boyton Beach. That's where the new gym is at, which is probably like 15 to 20 minutes north of where we're at in Boca. Is that new team called Combat Club, or is that something else? Well, Combat Club is the name of the gym. Ah, okay. That's the name of the gym. Yeah, combat club is the name of the gym.

Okay. So, yeah. But we don't have a name of the team. Gotcha. You know what I'm saying? We just go on and get that work in. And, you know, it's kind of interesting thing, because, you know, it's kind of an interesting thing because, you know, we're kind of, you know, this guy named Will Harris, he's kind of, he's making a documentary, you know, an anatomy of a fighter.

And, you know, a lot of our team is going to be in a documentary. He's getting boxers and everybody else, but, you know, he's filming us and he's filming us going through this process. And, you know, at the old gym, now we have the new gym. And some of the pieces didn't quite fit. And some of the people went and did their own thing. And, you know, now we're reforming. and then coming together the team. Final thing in hindsight, could this have been avoided?

Or was it inevitable from the start? I mean, it was big news when you left Jackson's to go to Florida, and you were kind of the guy who started this team in many respects. Was this a long time coming? Could it have been avoided? What do you think? I like to think it could have been avoided, but, you know, sometimes people do things for the wrong reasons.

And you don't really know people's reasoning behind the reason why they're doing stuff. until they kind of reveal themselves. Sometimes you have enough foreseeing that you can see it, but sometimes you really can't. And, you know, when people do things for the wrong reasons, when they have a huge ego involved, it makes it really hard to, you know, to find or to make anything substantial happen because at the end of the day, their ego will tremble over everything.

And you don't really know how, you know what I'm saying? That's a really hard thing to judge and to measure. You know, I think that, you know, Glenn, he was, you know, he's not a bad guy, and then I won't say anything bad about him. I just think that he wasn't honest with himself about what he can and can't do, and he didn't say no enough. And at the end of the day, you know, the fight game eats and chews you up, if you're not strong enough and resilient enough to deal with everything that goes along with it.

You know, and that's one thing that I've learned. is very unforgiving. And if you're not willing or able to do what you need to do and say no or stand up for yourself or be able to make the right choices, then you're going to get passed up and passed over. And, you know, I think a big part of what happened to the Black Zions is due to the fact that, you know, Glenn sailed in some respects. Well, like I said, you see, I expected you to tell us the truth.

You told us the truth. Always appreciate your candor, Rashad. really. Thank you for clearing the air on that. I'm sorry to hear it happen, but hopefully everyone's happy and, you know, more comfortable and in a better place now. Best of luck to you, my man. Keep us posted on what's next. Happy to hear that you're okay, that everything's good as far as your health is concerned,

most important. And looking forward, as always, to seeing you back in there. Thank you. I appreciate it about that. All right. Talk to you soon. There he is Rashad Evans stopping by. Great stuff, as always, from the former UFC Light Heavyweight Champion.

Okay, let's go to the Skype machine. Now waiting patiently is the one and only Chale P. Sunnet. making his Bell Tour debut Saturday in Inglewood, California against Tito Ortiz. Chale, how are you? What's happening there? That was interesting stuff. I love MMA drama. I didn't know any of that was going on.

That's interesting. It's always interesting when it gets dropped on you in the last like two minutes of the interview and you're like, oh, damn, I got to go a little longer now. So I appreciate you standing by. And you know what? It only occurred to me now that your last opponent was Rashad Evans. And here you are back to back. How about that?

I didn't expect. I didn't even do that on person. That was your last fight. UFC 167, November of 2013. This is your first training camp since, essentially. What's it been like? Have you enjoyed being an active fighter again? It's been really hard, man.

I can tell you. I think they were probably always hard. That's what my wife keeps telling me. She says, this is how you feel every time. But I guess I forgot. I don't remember being this sore and this tired all the time. But yeah, I've enjoyed the process. It's good to be back.

You know, it's always good to have something to do, have a finish line, you know, a goal. where then you can go, you know, test if everything's working or not. And so, yeah, yeah, I liked it. Do you feel this way because either A, it's been, you know, three years or so, B, you're working really hard because this means a lot to you. This has been, you've changed things. Like, why do you think it's your age? Like, why do you think you feel this way and maybe think that it's a little tougher than in the past? Yeah, so I think it's because I don't remember. I mean, again, that's what my wife tells me. She tells me that this is the way that it always is and

that I, you know, I'm always feeling stiff and sore tired. But, uh, yeah, I don't know. I think all of those things are fair points. You know, being out a little bit doesn't make things easier. Um, you know, the, the body doesn't get better with time. And, uh, so, you know, I think that age could be true. But, uh, you know, it's nothing substantial. It's not substantially different. It's just something I've noticed. I don't remember being this, this sore and tired. I know you're very locked in and you appear to be in great shape, I mean, just seeing from your face. But did you see what happened to BJ Penn yesterday? And as someone who is coming back from a long layoff, do you fear that sort of thing? Do you fear people talking about you afterwards saying, I don't want to see him fight anymore.

He's too old. He's a shell of his former self. Like, do you think about that? No, I never think about that. But, I mean, that is a real thing. It's eventually your race is ran. And, you know, you're never really done with this sport, but at some point, this sport is done with you. and as far as BJ went, I mean, I thought he had a big matchup problem there. That's a really unique guy, a really tough guy. And BJ does go fight some hammers. I mean, his previous fight was Frankie Edgar. He walks right into this guy with a big layoff.

I think that matchup-wise, he had some problems. I think the biggest negative, I would say, about BJ was the same as I would say about what Rhonda did. It wasn't a matter of the jab and the cross and the takedown and the submissions didn't work. was a matter of they never tried them. You know, if you go out and you fight somebody and they're a better fighter, you're going to get beat. But you got to bring your tools with you. If you don't have any skills to bring, if you don't have any offense to offer, it failing, fine, but not offering an offense, I think that that's something that needs review.

Great perspective there. I saw this clip that Bellator put out of you talking about Tied Ortiz, this. fight. I thought it was really well produced and in five minutes told the story wonderfully. And at the end, we saw you get very emotional. I feel like I've been following you for a long time. I never knew this story about you and your father and what fighting Tito Ortiz meant. And if anyone hasn't see it, I do suggest you check it out. It's on their Twitter. I've tweeted it as well. You were very emotional talking about speaking to your dad and promising him that you'd be A, a champion at some point and B, you'd be Tito. Was that a hard thing to recount for you? Because I've never seen you like that before.

Yeah, it was really tough. You know, it was really tough. And I didn't know it would be. It's one of those things, you know, once they start filming, it's kind of hard to stop anything. But, yeah, I mean, it was a true story, and it was, you know, it came from a good place, too. Tito took it as an insult, but he actually heard it wrong. My dad and I were big Tito fans. And at that time, there was only two divisions.

You had the light heavyweight division. You had the heavyweight division. There was no other classes. And even the light heavyweight division was relatively new. It used to just be open way. You remember hoist Gracie? It didn't matter what a guy weighed. I don't think there even was a way in.

So, yeah, Tito was the guy, and I was planning to get to him sooner than later. You know, it just took all these years. It took me a long time to get my break, and I didn't get my break until 2005. So, you know, that's just kind of the life. I'm sitting here complaining about it, but every fighter listening to this knows what I mean. It's hard to get into this industry. And so will you be thinking, you know, more so than usual about your father, this week when you square off with him at the way in when you see him like are you carrying a little

extra baggage going into this fight oh i suppose that's fair i mean i have my process i follow my process to try to go out and just put on the best performance i try not to think about the outcome of a fight um you know i don't i don't think like i got to win this or what if i lose i just try to think about performing there's a few things that i need to do uh to have a chance at success in this match and so i'm i'm focusing on those and uh and um and that's really it. Are you catching Tito Ortiz at the best time possible? Do you feel like he's on borrowed time?

He's already said this is his last fight. Is he a shell of his former self, in your opinion? Excuse me, it's hard to say. I've never thought about it in those terms, but it is really hard to say, you know, those guys that were champions in the early 90s, you know, the way the sport is progressing, you and I were just talking about BJ Penn,

one of the best to have ever done it. I've trained with BJ Penn. He came out to Oregon. not only did I get my hands on him, but I watched him going with Evan Tanner and Randy Couture. I mean, go through the list. And I can tell you, he was as good as the hype. You know, he was said to be the number one pound-for-pound fighter in the world, and he was. And but it does go quickly.

So, you know, is Tito a lesser guy? I would listen to that argument, whether it's true or not, I don't know, but I would listen. The other side of that is those guys sucked back then. It just was a different deal, man. I mean, people weren't watching, people weren't participating. It was just a different deal in terms of not only the techniques, the training, the coaching, but the level of athlete as well. And you do have some guys from back then that got a really good run. And Tito was the best.

There was no one that could beat him. It's just also a true statement to say the guys were not very good back then. The first time I ever had you on this show was prior to UFC 104 when you were about to fight Yushinokami. And I remember that interview for me was a revelation because you talked about promotion, something that fighters don't oftenly talk about. openly, you were talking about how it was hard to carry the fight. You were on the un-aired prelums. You weren't even on the spike prelums. You were in a dark match against the number two middleweight in the world. And you were talking about how the guy's not speaking. How can I promote this fight if the other guy's not speaking? Flipside, here we are, your return fight. Tito is speaking,

but it seems like every time he speaks, it's a fumble. It's not exactly coming out the way he wants it to. Is that equally frustrating for you? What do you, how do you feel about the way he's built up this fight? I think you've done a great job. That's expected. But what about the other side of the coin? I've appreciated his effort. I really have, you know, there has been a lot of fumbles there, but the efforts there, the passions there, he means that, you know, it's serious. When it's a guy's last fight, you know, there is something extra that that he's taken with him, particularly when you're fighting essentially your hometown in front of all of your people. So I've appreciated his effort, but yeah, man, there's been some blunders. He isn't, he isn't the most eloquent speaker that I've

come across. Do you feel like he's too emotional going into this fight? I know we talked about you and your father, but it seems like he's, you know, aggressive. Like, you kind of have a smile in your face. You're kind of telling you like it is, but it seems like he's very upset about, unless it's an act. How do you perceive it? Yeah, I thought that he might be a little bit. I mean, again, everybody's approach is different. And you can't sit back and judge one guy's approach because all you're doing is projecting your own. I can tell you for me, I've done this a lot of times. I've done this a lot more times than Tito, you know, regardless of whether he got his break first or not.

I think he's had 20-some fights. I fought 49 men. So I am resigned to the fact that our skills are our skills. And, you know, when we fight, my skills are my skills and his skills are his skills. And how you feel are your emotion. I hear people talk about that all the time. And they're usually saying you need to be positive. You need to be confident.

You need to have belief. I hear all of this talk from coaches, but there's never been a round that concluded in the history of fighting where the judges said, which guy looks more confident? And then marks the ballot. I mean, your skills are your skills. This is what wins fist fights. It's not anything else than that. So I understand that concept that if I can get people to tune in to watch, then great.

But either way, on January 21st, I'm going to whip Tito's ass. Do you have the same group of coaches around you going into this fight or have you changed anything? Same coaches, same teammates, same gym. Essentially, the gym I used to be at close, but then all the members went over and we're still together as a team. So, yeah, everything's pretty much the same. I can just tell you, I just don't remember, I don't remember training being so hard. I remember it being a little bit easier, but my wife tells me I'm wrong. I really don't know, Ariel.

It's been a few years. It was super interesting. Belator announces this fight, as you mentioned, in Tito's backyard, Inglewood, California. He's a draw in that part of the country. Main event, massive deal. Your new signing, all this stuff. And then shortly thereafter, the UFC announces that they're going to be in Anaheim for a pay-per-view. And then shortly thereafter that, they can't secure a main event and they cancel the card. A, what did you think when the UFC announced that they were going the same night, same market as you? And B, was it a feather in your cap, a small victory when they canceled the card? Yeah, I loved it, man. I love competition. You know, counter programming is part of it. But to your point, this was the, they've counter programmed before. That makes good business sense. They've never essentially played the same city and also competed over live ticket sale. So I thought that the stakes were up a little bit. And then when they pulled out, it was kind of quiet. I didn't really hear about it until after the fact, just all of a sudden the data got moved. So no, I didn't make it. take too much of it. I don't know that it had anything to do with us, or they just had a card that fell. I don't know what the backstory was on that. But I like competition, man. If somebody wants to compete, then let's compete. So was a part of you bummed that they canceled it? Did you want to see if you could beat them? I know it's pay-per-view versus cable TV, but did you want that competition to exist on January 21st? Yeah. So the only number we would have had to let us know who the winner was

would have been the live gate because the commissions would have disclosed that. So there could even be some gamesmanship there and you buy up your own ticket. I mean, there's all sorts of things that can happen in that PR battle. But I really didn't think a whole lot of it. We had a jumpstart on them. Don't forget that. We already had our launch and sold out a large part of that building. So, you know, I thought if the reports were to come out on Monday morning,

I think that we would have been very competitive. There is a narrative out there that the UFC, and I believe in it, right now there's a shortage of headliners, big names, people who can main event. And I think that's part of the reason why they put BJ in the main event. But right now, Connor, John Jones, Ronda Rousey, Brock Lesner, GSP, who's going to headline? Where are the draws? Does a part of you think, well, you know, you could have headlined those shows? You could have been a draw. Like, is there a part of you that thinks maybe it could have worked out differently? And, like, your values even higher these days because you're coming back that's a big story, it's going to do well on spike, it's going to do well with tickets, you're someone that they could use these days. Yeah, well, and here's the deal. You know, it's fair for media to say that, but it's a catch-22 because you can never be wrong. You know, they're saying there's not enough stars. That's like saying, you know, I had too much fun or too much money.

I mean, there's no such thing as too many stars. So you make a statement like that in the media, you're always going to be right. They could have triple the stars. It's not enough stars. They're having 53 events. You know, Bellator, we got the same problem. We're having 23 events scheduled in 2017. You can't have enough stars.

So I think it's a fair point. And then some of the people you named are aren't the stars that you think they are. They're very well known, but not all of their numbers are what you think they are. You know, so, yeah, it's really tough. And I'll tell you this, too. In this coming fight that I've got is a big fight. And the number one thing that sells in fighting, It's not a title fight.

It's not a main event. The number one thing that sells is a grudge match. But the number two thing that sells is a comeback. That would trump a main event or a title fight just on its face. So, yeah, comeback fight's a big deal, man. And, you know, Tito's got a retirement element to it. I think that there's a few intriguing parts there. But, I mean, my contract's my contract.

I'm out of the pay-per-view bonus business. I'm not on pay-per-view anymore. My deal is my deal. I like when people tune in because it feeds my ego, but my job doesn't change, man. I got to go out and do what I got to do. Okay, so that being said, will you be disappointed if this doesn't break Belator's Spike TV record? It's currently held by the late Kimbo-Slice.

Do you think that there is everything in this matchup to break over 2 million viewers on Saturday night? Yeah, yeah, I would be disappointed. Yeah, those numbers matter to me. I used to have them all. I had the FS1 record. I had the Live Fox record. I had the North American Gate record. I lost them all.

Connor now has them all. My contention is I never would have lost them had I not left. And yeah, I'm here to get them back. And I'm starting with this one. So do you feel that pressure? Like, do you feel like in the next five days you need to do as much promotion as possible? And you're a promoter as well, in your own right, submission underground. You've got the promotion out of Oregon as well.

Like, do you feel it's not pay-per-view, but you need to get people to watch on Saturday to justify this signing? Yeah, I think that's right. You know, here's the thing. Everybody lives by a code, but it would greatly dishonor me inside if they'd, if they pay me my money and they come out in the red. I'm a company guy first in front of myself. And if I'm working for somebody, I need to make sure that I bring in a surplus. So yeah, that's, that is a reality. I do feel that. Now look, the gates, the gate. There's not a lot of tickets left. There are tickets left. There's not a lot, though. And as far as the rating goes, I'm quite

confident that we're going to beat it. But I think your point's very fair. Yes, I do feel pressure on that. And I enjoy the process. And I will work very hard from now until then. And we'll live with the result. Andy Foster of the California State Athletic Commission has told me that you've passed all the drug tests. Is that a nice little nod to the doubters, the critics? You know, here you are. You're no longer basically clean, Chale. You are clean. That's a nice thing. You know, Ariel, Andy Foster calls me for surprise test. You don't get any warning on the test. And frankly, that's the only way to do the test. Right. Right. It's got to kind of be out of competition, unwarrant. I have never, I'm the other side of the track. Never.

taking anything. I have never taken one of those tests and not been completely nervous. And my manager goes, why would you be nervous? And I go, Jeff, I've never passed one of these things, man, I hate these things, calling him every day. Do you have the results? So is it a feather in the cap? I mean, I don't know that a guy should be complimented for doing what he's supposed to do. But perhaps I am an exception to that rule. Perhaps this is one where just by doing what I should do, I get a little pat on the back. Maybe it's unjust, but yeah, I feel like I have got. I So to the best my knowledge, Yeah, you're giving you're giving one right now.

So yes, I guess I have gotten a pat on the back simply for doing what I'm supposed to do. It reminds me of my son who told me he got a timeout in class a couple weeks ago and then he came back a few days later and said, Dad, guess what? I didn't get a time out today. That's something to celebrate. That's right.

Good job, Oliver. And what about the fact that you've been tested three times in Tito once? Is that fair? It is with me. You have to understand, you know, when you talk about fair, Generally speaking, of one guy's tested, the other guy's tested it is totally level. Now, that's not a rule.

That's just generally the policy. So I think when you have a background like mine and you've been flagged before, I think that that's very reasonable that you're going to be tested and perhaps your opponent isn't. And Tino has never been flagged. So I didn't have any kind of problem with it. And a little bit of it for mine was also just happenstance. I was at a show commentating that happened to be in California where my fight is. So they had the testers there, and they came out ringside.

I was in my suit and miced up and ready to go, and they grabbed me and pulled me the backs. Tito wasn't there. So they couldn't have tested him if they wanted to. Two last things. I know you're getting him a little later, but to draw it up like this, the guy that you told your dad about, you know, when he was about the past, to be able to retire him, to beat him on the way out. You know, if we're going to go back to old school pro wrestling and you kind of, you beat the guy on his way out of the territory, you couldn't have scripted this any better. new stage, new company, new lease on life. This is pretty special.

Yeah, I think so too. I think so too. I've been after Tito for a while and our passion just never crossed. By the time I finally made it to the UFC, he wasn't the champion anymore, but he was still the man. But by then, they had added weight classes. You know, again, to go back when I told my dad this in 2001, they only had light heavyweight and heavyweight. So when I got into the UFC and was able to go into a middleweight class, It was just never going to happen.

We just weren't going to cross paths. So, yeah, you know, I'm glad to get matched up with them. I really don't have anything against Tito as a guy. I mean, he's been driving me nuts lately. But before that, I've always just kind of thought good things about him. I don't really know one way or the other. But as far as a competitor goes, man, I could have beat all those guys from back in that time era. Tito Ortiz was on top of the bill and he was the champion and he was selling the tickets.

He never would have had that belt if I was around. And it's not because he wasn't a great fighter. but I was the best fighter back then. I didn't even get into the company until I was 28 years old. And then I left the company, Bodog and WEC got like 33 years old. So I do have resentment that a large part of my window was missed. I beat 12 UFC veterans before I ever got into the UFC. That was a lot of guys.

That's more UFC wins than Tito had while in the UFC. And so again, I want to take away from his career or Liddell's career or any of those guys' career, but they weren't me. None of those guys would have been champion if I could have gotten my break. That's my contention. I'm either right or I'm not, but I've been singing this song for 17 years. And on January 21st, I'm going to find out one way or the other. That's a phenomenal sort of pitch as to why people should watch. And my last question was, and it kind of feeds into what you were just saying, it's a rare off weekend for UFC.

This is a big deal for not only you, but the company. It's a great card, I think, you know, with Halleck Gracie and Paul Daly, Brennan Ward. I mean, they've really stacked the deck for you. Why should fans tune in to the return of Chal Sunnan? You know, I want to try to sell this fight. Again, I'm in a different business out. Don't forget, here, I'm not in the paper. But the ratings business.

The ratings business. Yeah. It's live and free. And so, you know, live free and only on Spike TV. I want people to tune in because it feeds my ego. And really, for no other reason than that. I think it's going to be a great match. But let the people decide.

If they want to see it, they can see it. But I'm not selling them anything, man. I can't sell them something if I wanted to, Ariel. It's free. All right. Chil, we appreciate it. Best of luck to you. Can't wait.

One final thing, Halwani. Kaboom. Welcome back, Chil Sondon. There he is. January 21st, Inglewood, the forum. Chil Sondon versus Tito Ortiz. After all these years. And the big story, of course,

Chil Sondon fighting for the new promotion. He's never fought for them he hasn't fought since November of 2013, since that loss to Rashad Evans, this is a big deal for the company. You know, the free agent signings are great, but they have to deliver as well. Phil Davis, I think, has delivered. Benson Henderson, I think has delivered. In terms of, you know, the big fight hasn't delivered in terms of performance, I think is fair. But I think it's got them the notoriety and the attention that they wanted. You got to win the fights. Will Chale Sondon deliver? Will he get them the ratings? Will he get them the attention?

Will he get them the buzz? Will he get them the ticket sales? It sounds like it's pretty good thus far. This is a big one for Bellatorre. This justifies a lot. And it's a good card. They've stacked the deck. It's one of their better cards. Worth watching this Saturday, in my opinion. And there's no competition. UFC not doing a card anymore in Anheim. Okay. Let's move along. As I mentioned, very excited to talk to our next guest. His first time appearing on the program, I do believe. He's coming off a very nice win over Mike Perry in Sacramento. He is Alan Joban.

He joins us right now, I do believe, via the Magic Skype. There he is. Alan, how are you? What's up? It's crazy that this is the first time we've chatted, man. Well, we've chatted before. I've interviewed you at fights, but on this program, you are right. It is crazy, and I'm embarrassed by this, and I do apologize.

So I'm rectifying it today. It might be the fault of one of your producers. I have a bone to pick. Who's New York Rick? That is the man in the back. He is at fault for everything we do here. What's the problem? Okay, so I think he's at fault.

We have a mutual friend, and our mutual friend tells me that New York Rick was rooting for Mike Perry. He had Mike Perry winning the fight. Mike Perry was going to win the fight. Our friend had me winning the fight. Obviously, we know how that turned out. So I'm surprised in New York Rick's amateur decision. predictions for that fight.

Yes. Yes. New York, Rick, what do you have to say for yourself? Are you crying in the corner? There he is. I don't know if you can see him, Alan. What do you have to say? It's been a rough week so far. I mean, and now Alan's coming at me.

I would say this. Absolutely incorrect pick. Congratulations on a great win over Mike Perry. But tell our friend to stop being such a little snitch. Snitches get snitches. He's definitely listening now. I'll pass it along, though. That's one of the finest moments.

What a debut for you to start off calling out New York Creek for his horrible picks. I love it, Alan, thank you. I felt, correct me if I'm wrong, this was a different Alan Joban going into that fight. You really didn't like this, man. This guy represented everything that you were against. Is that accurate? Were you kind of feeling different going into this fight? That's very accurate, man.

And like, you know, if you're going to play the heel, the bad guy role, that's on you. I don't have anything against it. It's just the way that Mike did go about it that turned me off, you know? And what specifically? Like what bothered you? Like, did he get personal or is it what he represents? A little bit of both. A little bit of both.

You know, it's one thing to Chal's son and you were just on. I just caught the end of the interview. He plays a great bad guy, a great heel. But it's thought out. It's very witty. It's even if you're on the other end of what he's saying, you have to sometimes nod your head and say, you know what?

That's pretty damn funny, even though he's talking shit about me. It was pretty damn funny. Nothing that I found Mike Perry did. It was witty or funny. And it was one of these things where I feel like Chelsea Suna knows how to talk when the camera's running. He knows how to sell a fight. He knows how to make people watch to get the ratings.

Mike Perry would be flicking me off over breakfast at 8 a.m. in the morning, you know, when I'm with my team and he's with his girlfriend, like it was those kind of close encounters. When you're staying at a holiday inn and Old Town Sacramento on a rainy week, and every time you cross paths in the lobby, he's talking trash in a personal way. And then it just, it kind of got under my skin. I realized, you know, it's one thing to do it to promote the fight when the camera's around.

But when we're eating breakfast at AM, why are you doing this? Why are you flicking me off? Yeah. So that being said, was this, you know, in terms of results, one of the more gratifying victories that you've had in your career because of the fact that he was doing this? In a way, I would say it was a gratifying. victory, Ariel, but if it was the other way and I would have lost this fight, it would have been one of the worst losses ever.

I cannot have lived with myself knowing that the build up to this fight that I lost him. And to touch on that as well, you know, something about this fight, you mentioned in the beginning that was just a different Alan Jobe, and that's what I took from this fight. You know, a lot of guys know me as either a fight-of-the-night type guy who I just go for broke or sometimes I'm a guy that goes to that first-round finish. I have kind of equal fight of the night performances compared to maybe like first strong knockouts. So that's kind of been the mystique about me thus far, the guy that doesn't mind getting hit.

And that's what me and my coaches have been trying to really turn that around, you know, just playing the numbers game, really, getting hit less and putting myself in a position to finish more. And so that was the main objective going into this fight. We were like, I said this in a couple interviews, and it's kind of funny to say it, but I was looking for a flawless victory. I was looking for a flawless victory. I wanted to change the number game. I wanted to look at my UFC percentages after the fight and say, I hit this guy this many times and I got hit this many times. And so that goal was pretty much accomplished.

I didn't finish him. But I probably took the least amount of damage and I have in almost any of my UFC fights going against one of the more dangerous guys. And you have great incentive to not get hit more so than most fighters because you are still an active model, right? I've always found that fascinating. You have a fight manager and you have a modeling manager or H. correct? Correct, correct. The modeling agent probably wants you to retire, probably doesn't want

you doing this, probably closes their eyes every time you fight, correct? Close. So, I've been modeling for about 10 or 15 years, and it was something that I did before I found fighting. Wasn't ever passionate about it, found fighting, that's what I was passionate about, put modeling to the back burner. At that time in my career, those agents did not want me fighting at all. They hated it. Once I got to the UFC, my current agent at Soul Artist Management in New York, they found me, and the reason they found me is because

they were huge fight fans. They were regularly watching the UFC, and when they saw me, they said, oh, you know, we're like, this guy was bringing me in, next thing you know, I'm signed with them. So I know now, and they know now that, you know, I never would have found my current representation if I had not been fighting, and they're my biggest fans. My agency, my agents, they fly to all my fights, they're regularly there.

So in the beginning, what you said was true, but now it's kind of the opposite. I know that I would not have gotten these opportunities, like Versace, and all these other things, if not for fighting. Does being a UFC fighter open more doors in the modeling world or close them? Absolutely.

Opens them. Really? You know, like anything in your life, in life, you know, it's about being compelling. It's about being unique, staining out. And before I was fighting in front of a large scale, audience, I was just another guy going out on auditions, on commercials or modeling jobs, whatever it may be. I was just another guy. There was nothing unique about me. And once I

achieved a level of success fighting, all these brands that are finding is so compelling, so interesting. Like you said, two jobs that have absolute conflicting, you know, in results. But they found that fascinating. And people were able to somewhat develop a relationship with me through the fighting. Brands and photographers were able to kind of get to know me through fighting and then want to bring me in to sheet for those companies. Obviously, it could happen. You get a massive scar, big cut, broken nose, things like that. That could directly affect your modeling career. Are you not worried about that? Yes and no. You know, I mean, it is something that crosses my mind. But at the same time, I've been, you know, I've only been in the UFC maybe

two and a half years, but I've been in the combat sports business for about 10 years. So, it's something I've been able to manage quite a while. And then, to be honest, this day and age, man, like, you know how it is, man. When you go in front of camera, they powder you up. They touch you up, right? It's the same thing, you know. If I have a broken nose or 10 stitches, it's different. But if I have a black eye and scratches, they can fix that up, man, and then they

could Photoshop things. So it's not something that crosses my mind too much. As long as I'm not doing something too close to a fight, you know, if I were shooting a movie or doing modeling or whatever it may be, if I had to do that immediately after a fight, I'd be a little bit worried and be on my mind. But we're pretty good at spreading everything out. That way I'm able to focus all my energy on whatever I'm doing at that time. Right now, do you make more money fighting or modeling? Well, it would have been fighting. It would have been fighting until Vasachi came around. Vasachi is, um, Vasachi was definitely the biggest, the biggest payday

anything I've done in my life. Absolutely. Wow. And is it enough to retire from fighting? Like, are you just doing fighting for fun because you love doing it? Or do you need those two incomes at this stage? Well, I mean, me personally, I would never, I'm the type of guy like I have fighting, I have Versace, I have other things.

I still teach multi-class for a couple bucks a day. You know what I mean? Okay. I'm constantly, I like to stay busy. I like to stay making money. You never know what the future holds. So I don't think that way. But, you know, it depends.

It's like this. There's, this is how fragrance campaigns work. If you haven't seen it, I did a fragrance campaign. Or if your audience haven't seen it, I did a fragrance campaign for Versacea. I'm not a clothing model, more so a fragrance campaign. And fragrance campaigns renew every single year. And so that's the thing. If it's a 10-year fragrance campaign, then I'm looking good for 10 years.

Nice. If they don't renew here, I better keep winning my flights. And so how many years is this current one, or is it year to year? It's the first year. It's a year to year type of year. Wow, where can I see this? Yeah. Where can I see it?

Where can I see the campaign? Anywhere, if you go to Macy's, if you go to any kind of store that sells fragrances, you'll see Dillon Blue. And the commercials have been on TV and stuff. They were showing up. They were actually showing on Fight Week in Sacramento during my fight. Or not during the fight, but not during the fight week. I was walking around 60th in Lexington here in New York by an equinox.

And I saw you on the billboard, right? That was you. Yeah. Very cool, right? Unbelievable. Look at you. Unbelievable. Okay, so now I was told that you thought the win over Mike Perry given, you know, he's

newer to the game, but he had some hype. He was undefeated in the UFC. He was big stage on Fox would sort of propel you into a different conversation. And that hasn't exactly happened as you planned. And you're upset about this. Is this accurate? Pretty much. I mean, it didn't do it.

anything for me, man. You know, I took the fight because I wanted to fight before the years in. I wanted to fight in Sacramento. There were a majority of reasons. Mike Perry was not one of them. I just wanted to fight on Big Fox, which I hadn't done yet at the time.

I wanted to be on the main card, which I got. All these things were the factors into why I wanted to fight on that fight. Mike Perry was just the opponent that they threw out there. I said, let's do it. I looked them up. He was undefeated, which the UFC does like, and they were kind of hyping this guy up. You know, he was getting a lot of

promotion in terms of only having his third fight in UFC. But being undefeated in the way that he went about all his fights, nine victories, nine knockouts, he was a dangerous enough guy where I thought, you know what? I've been on the cuffs of the rankings for quite a while. I mean, pretty much he's a step foot

into the octagon. My first fight in the octagon was a fight of the night bonus knockout, first round knockout. Like, I've been kind of a name that's been thrown out there, but not really. breaking through just yet. So being on a two-fight win streak, I said, you know what? A win over Mike Perry is a dangerous guy. That gives me three wins in a row this year, I'm defeated this year, and five out of my last six. And, I mean, I'm not complaining, but you look back in Brazil, I got robbed in Brazil. I really only had one clear loss in the UFC out of eight

fights. I felt like a win there and a dominant performance, especially on a court stacked with Walter weights, that I would have my turn to shine, and it would do enough to propel me to get in. it didn't man i mean i beat my carry i didn't finish him but it was a pretty clear evident victory um i kind of outclassed him and and yet i'm ranked 29 you know 29 i'm in the most stacked division in the o c area i mean it used to be kind of debatable is it the 55ers it's in the 70s but i feel like the 55 was this guy's going up this guy's going down at late classes um the 70s is it is that is murder's row i mean you look at the top 15 and it's stacked, although I think 11 through 15

is guys that don't belong there, but then if you look through 15 to 30, which doesn't really matter those numbers, I get it, but 15 to 30 could be another top 15 in the Walterweight division. It's a bunch of guys with three or four wins in a row who aren't getting into that push. And that's why I was frustrated because I'm no longer fighting,

I don't want to fight laterally anymore. I just want to fight up. I just want to fight guys with big names or rankings, and that's what I'm looking for my next fight. And so, okay, so you haven't gone that big push. I mean, being on Fox is a push in itself, being on the main card, that's all well and good. But that sort of

main event, co-main events a lot against the big name. So do you have, do you have an idea in mind? Like, what's the fight that propels you into that conversation that you clearly want to be a part of? Ever since Hafeldos, ever since he announced moving up and wait,

as soon as I saw it, I just thought, you know, he's a big enough name. He's a name. He's a number four lightweight. And other than that. He's a former champion. He's a big name. I mean, you know, it's funny. After I called him out, you would be surprised how many people were saying that, like, I was cherry-picking

or saying that he was a week, you know what I'm saying? Like, he's a weak fight. Or, like, he's a broken man. I was getting these comments. He's broken. You're cherry-picking. Why don't you... That's not going to do anything for you, I went over him. And I see it completely opposite, man. I feel like... I don't know.

I want to get your opinion, Ariel. You mean, you're a very educated guy. You're a good. journalists? What do you think? A guy like, these are the top 15, Matt Brown, Jake Ellenberger, Terrick Safradine. All those guys are like on three or four fight losing streets. Yet they're not taking them out of the top 15 where guys like me, new blood belong. They let these guys stay there and that's what's frustrating me. So does a win over a Matt Brown putting four or five win another loss on his record do more for me or does a win over a former champion number four lightweight like Dosanos do more for me? What do you think?

Okay, so first I'll say this. After we're done with this interview, go to UFC.com slash rankings. With all due respect to everyone involved, go to the drop-down menu, top left corner, and look at the people who currently rank the fighters. I cover the sport. I feel like I know a lot of people. I haven't heard of 90% of the people who are part of it. So I wouldn't take it to heart.

Now, I will say the UFC loves to use it against you when it's to their benefit. When it's not to their benefit, they'll ignore the rankings. But if they say, yeah, if you want a new contract and you're currently ranked 15th, hey, and that's not justified, they'll bring that up. So tread lightly with the rankings. Don't take them to heart. I don't think they reflect what the true sort of journalist media, et cetera, you know, thinks of you and of the fighters in general. Second point, the Dos Ando's pick is brilliant. That's the pick. Brown, Safini, and those guys, it's not marquee right now. You need to make some buzz.

RDA's moving up to Walterweight. That's a story in its own right. His opponent now comes along for the ride, and if you stop that momentum, and let's be honest, I mean, that was a close fight against Tony Ferguson, five rounds against, you know, a guy who could be the champion by the end of the year, I love that pick. I think it's great. I think that makes way more sense of those guys you mentioned. And so you put this out there. Are they biting? Is there any interest? You know, we have personally, my management reached out to Los Angeles's management, said, look, all we have to do is both of us, email the UFC, say we both want this fight. It's done. Let's do it. March 4th, Vegas, we're on the main

court, let's do this. They were, we had to kind of push them. We had to kind of sell it to them, and I don't know if they went and responded to the UFC like we did, but we definitely spoke to the UFC. They know how we feel. They think it's a fun matchup, but I think right now, to be honest, I think the UFC's a bit overwhelmed, you know, with all the jobs, which

is going on. You know, Joe Silva's no longer there. They have two new, Mickey Maynard is now one of the new matchmakers. They're kind of figuring out which matchmaker is going to take what the vision. And I just feel like they're still putting fights together. I know it is on the radar, but they're still figuring things out. Like you said about the DeSanios being the better pick, I agree, man, because you look back,

you remember when Vincent Henderson went up to Walterway and he fought main event against... Brandon Thatch. Brandon Thatch, I knew you would know. Main event that everybody was so intrigued. I was trying to see how the smaller man would stack up. Cowboy moved up. It's a story in itself, and that's why I want it, because I know everybody wants to see how Losanos fares at a big away class.

And one more thing to touch on what you said, don't pay too much attention to the rankings of 15 to 30. I totally agree. I've been getting a lot of people online saying, why do you even care if you're 29 and 22? I care because of exactly what you said a while ago. Because my next fight, I'm up to renegotiate my contract. And I want to be in the rankings because, A, it gives me a little bit more leeway when it comes into negotiating.

And B, I'm not in this sport to fight whoever's. I'm in this sport to get a chance at the belt. And the only way to climb towards the belt is to be in the rankings and then I can start my title run. But as long as I'm fighting these dangerous 15 to 30 guys who are super dangerous on winning trees as well, but they're not progressing me forward towards the belt, I feel like it's taking me nowhere. Yeah, you put in your time.

I agree with that. And also in life, we all want to move up. We don't want to move sideways. And I feel like you've got the story, the look, the background with, you know, the modeling stuff, all the way. There's something to push there. You're not just a vanilla fighter. And so I'll be curious to see if they actually give you this fight because, you know,

typically when you put it out there, especially a little early in the process, they will respond, unless they have something else right off the bat for RDA and it doesn't work out. But I think this is very smart on your end. And also, you mentioned the contract stuff. I mean, you, I remember stumbling upon a clip not that long ago. It was on a show that kind of flew under the radar. And I apologize for not remembering the name. And if you remember it, please give them a plug.

But you were talking about associations and unions and things like that. You seemed very interested. in it. Do you still feel the same way? I was on a show and I was speaking about unions and whatnot. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there's a lot of them going around right now. And I feel like

it's very near, very near to happening. You know, I spoke about it before, like the Ali Act being one thing that, like, you know, probably being the thing that will be pushed the most. And once that happens, from my knowledge, the Ali Act, you won't get these, like, super fights where, like, you know, guys that are in another way class or fight.

the champion. It's going to have to be, you know, the exact, whoever the next in line person should be. So I feel like that's kind of why we're getting all these guys calling out the superfights right now because they want to do it. They want to make them money. They want to have these big fun super fight matchups before the Ali Act gets passed. But absolutely I'm for it, man. I 100% support it. You know, if it's going to do anything to help us out, help us fighters in our pay and our contract negotiations, then yeah, I'm definitely supporting it. Any of the groups out there reach out to you after you spoke about it publicly? Yeah, I think I think all of them probably are reaching out to most of the fighters.

Man, what is the one? MMAFA. Okay. That could be the one. Is that the one with Cowboy or is that the other one? No, that's the one with Cowboys is MMAAAA. The one with Randy Gature and John Fitch and Cungley is MMAFA. Actually, that's the one.

That's the one I see having the most real chance of actually passing. They've got the most members probably. They're constantly, constantly working on things. I can see something happening in the near future with them, absolutely. Are you a part of them? I'm part of the thread, yeah. Oh, wow, okay. I haven't done any real work, I'll be honest.

But yeah, I am part of a thread. I do try to keep up on what's going on in it. But I'm not really somebody out there on the front lines. I understand. Very good for you. Okay. Last thing. So you want to be.

March 4th on that card. You want to be fighting RDA. What about the other stuff? Anything else we can look forward to as far as the modeling, the acting, things like that in 2017 from you? Nice. Yeah. I mean, same thing, man. I'm doing it. I'm in acting classes. I'm, uh, we've got some modeling things potentially coming up soon. It's going to be a fun year, man. I mean, the, uh, my agency, uh, they kind of, after the Vasachi thing, they kind of pull the reins back and wanted me to just get some wins last year, get those wins. I got all three of them last year. So now they're really pushing hard with a lot of great photographers like Peter Lindberg and Bruce Weber, some of the higher well-known photographers of the world trying to work on some new stuff.

So we'll see what comes about with that. But yeah, man, you know, I'm kind of following in the footsteps as a lot of guys right now, man, taking some acting classes. You know, Michael Bisbing's in these big movies. Connor McGregor's doing these horse commercials. I mean, you've seen everybody kind of transition into the acting business. And for me, it's something that I want to do, but I'm still a white belt and acting. and I want to get my repetitions in before I go on there.

I don't want to just be a guy using the USC to get into the movies. I want to make sure my acting is, I'm very confident in it. But yeah, man, just working on all those things right now, constantly staying busy just to have a great 2017. But it starts off with that, man, getting the big fights, man, getting the big fights, getting the big names. I don't want to fight dangerous unnamed guys anymore. Well, I wish you the best.

Great stuff, Alan. Congratulations on the big victory back in December and Sacramento. Good luck getting that fight against RDA and continued success. in the acting slash modeling world. It's very good. When I saw it, I was like, I felt like I was seeing a friend. Wow, look at this. On the wall, Equinox. This is amazing. It's a really cool thing to see. So keep it up, my man. Thanks, Sarah. Take care, man. All right, there he is. Alan Joband. Great debut here on the MMA hour for the Brahma Bull, right? Alan Joban. Great stuff. Appreciate his time. And I love that fight. I love that fight against RDA.

I think it makes a lot of sense. It's a marquee fight. It's a big story. RDA, the former champion moving up, good on him for calling out RDA for asking for the fight. We'll see if it actually comes to fruition. Okay, let's move along. Late Friday, it was announced kind of out of the blue that UFC 208 got another fight. A lot of people were wondering would it get another marquee fight. It got a fight that I don't think anyone had on their radar. It got the former middleweight champion, the man who many considered to be the greatest fighter of all time.

it got Anderson Silva against Derek Brunson. This is happening. February 11th, Barclay Center, Brooklyn, New York, UFC 208. This is a thing that's happening. So we wanted to talk to Derek Brunton about it. He's kind enough to join us right now. Via the Magic of Skype, there he is. Derek Brunson, how are you?

Good, man, what's going on? Not much. Wow. I did not expect this one. I mean, I had been kind of monitoring the Anderson Silva, you know, comeback fight. Rashad I was hearing was trying to get the fight. And then out of nowhere, Friday night, boom.

Derek Brunson versus Anderson Silva, When did this first come on your radar? Probably the night before. I'm just a man to save cars these days. Yeah, that's right. I go out here, put it into work. I mean, I keep telling everybody, you look at my last seven fights,

I have four first round knockouts and two fight of the night. So, you know, I'm an exciting guy, and they needed that car to get a little bit of bump. Anderson name, definitely have some name value, and I'm the guy to match him. So you get the call, hey, do you want to fight, and she's Silva in less than a month.

Do you say yes right away? Is it a no-brainer? Yeah. Yeah, I say yes right away. You know, I thought for maybe like five seconds, and I was like, yes. And then I got off the phone and it's like, okay, let me call back, you know, to the UFC.

And I got off the phone. And then I was like, wait, did I just accept the five-round fight? Oh, wow. Yeah. You thought it was the main. Yeah, well, I wouldn't have done it if it was the main. Sure. You know, because that was the same.

I fell into my last fight. I was preparing for three. You know, I had a game plan for three. Definitely was loving the hot streak. You know, four first round knockouts. I was definitely going for that fifth. I thought, you know, I get a fifth knockout in the row in the first round. Who does that?

Nobody does that. So I'm thinking if Romero beats Bisbyn, for sure I get the next title shot. I would have jumped these guys. These guys ain't doing nothing but, you know, sitting around fell in steroid tests and all this other stuff. So, you know, I'm for sure I would have jumped a lot of guys. I think so. So that was kind of my mindset, you know. Okay. So go ahead. Go ahead. No, no, no, because I want to get to the last fight in the second, but back to Anderson, is this something that you've wanted for a long time? I mean, who at middleweight doesn't want to fight Anderson? But is this like kind of a dream fight for you?

Oh, yeah, definitely. You know, Anderson that guy, you know, it's funny because my first fight in the UFC, I used to always sit back and watch Chris Lieber fight like, man, I'll kick his ass. And then I actually got the call to fight Chris leaving. And my reaction was like, yeah, because it was kind of short notice. And then I hung up the phone. And I got back on the phone. I was like, well, can we like make it, you know, like two months after? And then it was like, no, I already told the UFC.

I was like, all right, okay. So it's kind of one of those things with Anderson. You know, I always wanted to fight him because he was so great. And he had his reputation of just beating everybody. And obviously he's one of the best fighters of all time. So to fight that guy would definitely be an honor. What kind of shape are you in less than a month away? I'm in great shape.

I'm always training, so I was always training, but if I know I have a fight coming up, then I'm running, I'm doing conditioning, I'm doing a lot of cardio. I wasn't doing that, but I have about four weeks, three weeks now. So I'm working right now. I'm killing the cardio, getting the conditioning right, and feel great. Will you be staying in North Carolina for this shortened training camp or going to Albuquerque? Yeah, so initially I was going to go to Albuquerque. My mom is like, my mom and my dad are like always on me. They're like, can you please go to Albuquerque?

I'm like, listen. So I called Greg and Wink and I talk to them. I got some guys that fighting glory, Warren Thompson and Wayne Barrett, who's just like Anderson. So they're acting in Atlanta. So I was going to go down to Atlanta and split time down there and work with this guy Manu and just kind of like videotape our sparring session, sent it to Greg, talk to Greg on like twice a week and get his input.

But I was going to go down and, you know, spark with these guys who can give me a good look for Anderson, you know? Why do your parents nag you to go to Albuquerque? Man, they love the place, you know. That's who I've been training for the last six years. So they love Greg and Wink and, you know, they just always, but they don't know always like, you know, my reason for things, you know? Because, I mean, that's a great camp, you know. I mean, you can't miss with those guys. Sure.

Grange and Wink, they're very knowledgeable of the game. And I think right before I got on, I went on Twitter. I saw somebody pretty much dogging Greg saying how could he, they lost respect for Greg because he let BJ Penn like, what? That don't even make sense. BJ Pin wanted to fight, you know, that was a great fight for him. If he would have got to the ground, we're looking at a different thing. You're outclass him on the feet.

He's a fast guy, you know? I mean, that's just kind of how fighting goes, you know, who can impose their will. BJ Penn wasn't able to impose his will. If he would have got George to the ground, he probably makes him look like a, you know, why did he set this fight up? You know, so it is what it is. Okay, so now let me ask you about Robert Whitaker. Let's talk about Australia here, because first off, I have to say, you handled that like a pro.

I mean, what you put on your Facebook page, you know, you took the loss like a real champion and with all class and, you know, you took the blame, whatever. But watching it and it was, you know, it's always fascinating to watch these fights with the MMA community. I know you do this as well. Like, you know, you're active on Twitter during the fights and it's always great to see what the other fighters are saying during the big fights. with all due respect and I'm not a fighter I couldn't quite understand what you were doing why were you fighting like that

you were doing so well what happened was it just you fell in love with the knockout and you lost your mind what happened Derek I fell in love with the knockout I mean I was just I was in a relationship with knockouts that's how it was you know

I just I just fell into that I don't know I was just I was so gunhole about just knocking them out in the first round continuing that streak You know what, the canvas is slippery. It's not made for all that, just random. I was slipping all over the place, you know.

I wouldn't even say my technique was so poor. It was just more of me slipping because I was moving too fast. I was too urged, trying to knock them out. You know, you definitely got to have more... You're getting a call, aren't you? Or did we lose them? I think we lost them. We'll get them right back.

And you got, again, there's nothing more... admirable in the fight game, it's easy to take the credit when you win and look fantastic, but when you lose and it doesn't go your way, nothing more admirable than taking it the way Derek Brunson has. Back to Derek. He's right here. Go ahead. Sorry. Yeah, man, I just fell in love with our style. I mean, I'm not taking anything away from him. I just chose to fight that way. But, you know, let's look at it for what it is. You know, I've been in this game and a lot of people, I think I was, what, 9 and 0, 9 and 1 when I fought Jaceret and he was one of the top guys in the world, I have, what, four losses, but I have

four losses to, like, you have, like, former champ. They have five, six losses to guys you never even heard of. You don't even know these guys, but all of my losses are the top guys, you know, so I don't get discouraged, you know, I know where I'm at, and I just have to be smarter when it comes to that. Was that the game plan? No, that wasn't a game plan. Okay. That was just my game plan, which was a stupid game plan. I mean, my thinking, well, I think I heard, what's the guy, who did you have one last, Joe Ban? Yeah, Alan Joe Ben. And your video froze.

I don't know if you're getting, are you getting another, there you are, you're back. Go ahead. My daughter's calling me. No problem, no problem. But guys want to make money in this sport and you want, you want to get into the big fights, you know. And like, you might not think, but I'm thinking, I'm thinking, my logic's tell me. I'm freezing again because they're calling me. No problem.

Hold on a second. Let me tell them a mistake. Okay, no problem. Derek Brunton has to take a call from his daughter. Listen, when the daughter calls, I respect that. You got to take the call. Also, kudos to him for saying that that wasn't the game plan. That cage door shuts, and of course we're talking about that fight late November in Melbourne, Australia, against Robert Whitaker.

Interestingly enough, he now goes from that sort of crushing defeat, at least we thought it was, to Anderson Silva. Robert Whitaker has yet to be booked in his next fight, and it's, you know, it's hard to get a bigger named that Anderson Silva, regardless of how he's looked in his last few fights. I mean, let's not forget, I know, according to the... Oh, he's back? Yeah, I'm back. I'm sorry. My daughters keep calling me, whatever.

So we'll just ignore it. No, right. But, yeah, guys want to make money in this sport. So you've got to impress, man. You got to get these stoppages. You got to finish fights. And me thinking, I thought I could leap a bunch of guys, you know. I thought, you know, so I don't know.

I was making a push for it. What was the game plan? Knock him out in the first round. Oh, that was. I thought you said that wasn't the game plan. That wasn't everybody else's game plan. That was my game. No, what were your coaches telling you to do?

Yeah, to be patient, you know, go out here and, you know, show growth, you know, feel to fight out. Don't do some urge. Don't be so rushed. You know, 50 takedowns in, you know. Just be you. Be Derek Brunson. Just be me. Yeah, yeah, just be me, you know.

But I got a little overzealous. I got a little bit greedy. I'm that guy. I'm that guy that go, I don't know, put money on red or black, you know, and it I'm like, oh, dad, that was a good chance, but it didn't work out. So it's got to be a little bit more calculated and stop being greedy all the time. Okay, so you go in the cage, you're halfway across the world, you do that. What do the coaches say to you when they see you in the cage?

Like, did they say what the heck was at? What were you thinking? How did they react? They was like, did you hear me? I was like, yeah, I heard you. It was like, did you hear me? Did you hear me saying like, reset? Reset.

I'm like, yeah, I heard you. So, yeah, I don't know. Have you watched it? No I watched Maybe it kind of Disgust me To watch it

But I watched I don't know I watched like maybe Bits and pieces And I just cut it off I can't really watch it So I attempted to watch it Like months

Maybe twice But I don't learn anything From that Because I was just stupid It was a stupid game plan Um Uncalated risk I think you know

You gotta be more A part of the process Kind of like Kat Gunzana Fort Ronald Rousey She ran in And got flying on board sure

you know a lot of other fights for doom he ran in trying to knock steepie out boom face plan yeah yeah you gotta be more in the process

you know you can't I had a great street going and you know you can't try to just you can't fall in love you know I have everybody asking me hey you know

another fifth another knockout would be you know history nobody had five knockouts in a row in the first round you know so it's got to be more more the process

you know I have great skills I can strike but you know can't get greedy out there. Have you ever kind of in your athletic career, I mean, even dating back to before you were an MMA fighter, have you ever kind of lost your mind like that in a fight where you just threw out whatever game plan was and just fell in love with the moment and trying to make a splash?

Well, I think my senior year, my senior year in college, I was ranked second in the nation. I moved out to upper weight class at 197, and the match was zero to zero into the second period. try to do a Grammy role and the ref called the pin and instead of me just standing up regularly because it was even at that point I went for this spectacular move and the ref called like some crazy pin when I wasn't pinned I was like facing the guy but it was like after I was like why did I do that I should just stood up instead of like doing all the like special dumb stuff you know right so kind of reminds me at that moment and here's the weird thing I mean you're coming off that loss and it stops the winning streak but now you're fighting again arguably the greatest of all time like

there's tough, it's hard to find a bigger name than Anderson Silva, regardless of white class these days. So it's kind of, like, I'm assuming you weren't expecting to get a name like this after a loss like that, right? Um, I don't know. I never know. I mean, you have to be ready, you know? Yeah.

Because, I mean, they'll come to you with fights and you can say yes or no, because certain things doesn't make sense. I mean, you know, I mean, what sense does it make for me? I think I'm at eight to fight like the number of, two or three guy and let's say they're on a three fight winning streak, but it could happen. Yeah. You know, so, but no, I was expecting a little lesser name, but a fight is a fight. Oh, this is fantastic for you. What a way to come back. And the thing about Anderson for me is he's

such an enigma because, like, okay, gets knocked out by Wyden, clear, gets the leg injury and you can say whatever you want about that fight, comes back, Diaz beats him, but then there's the PED stuff, comes back, you know. he beat Diaz, right? Well, yeah, he beats him, but then the PED stuff took away the win officially. But yes, in the actual fight

he beat him. Comes back a year later, Michael Bisping, super close fight. There's that moment where he knocks him out, but it was saved by the bell, all that stuff. And then it's the Cormier fight

on three days notice where he's fighting a guy. So I don't really know what to make of him at this point. You know what I'm saying? What do you make of Anderson Silva? I make of Anderson Silva. He's not going to be doing

what he did against Wyman. And he's not going to be looking like he looked against Cormierreier. He came, I think he was like three weeks out of surgery when he fought at Comierre? Something crazy, yeah. He had nothing to lose. So he went into that fight completely out of shape, you know?

So I throw that fight out. I don't even look at that fight. The only thing I really can look out of that fight is the takedown. It's like, let me see, oh, what takedown was he very vulnerable to, you know? Yeah. But as far as him being out of shape, no, I throw that out because he was just out of surgery and completely wasn't training. He probably was doing exactly what I was doing, actively training, but wasn't doing, like, cardio

until he got to fight. He's, you know, ratcheting the cardio up right now. And, you know, I don't expect him to be out there dropping his hands, you know, pulling his head back, you know. Because, you know, one of these punches catching him on the chin, that slice out. So, um. So you're expecting more Michael Bisping, Anderson Silva. Oh, excuse me, Michael Bisping, Nick Diaz, Anderson Silva. I don't know.

I don't expect that either. I expect. What do you expect? The best Anderson Silva. I don't think he'll play with me. Like he, I don't think he'll toy with me as he. toy with other guys. Okay.

Because I can explode in and touch his chin, you know? Okay. And all it takes is one shot. And I'm sure his camp is like, okay, this guy, you know, he can crack you. So, you know, you got to be very mindful of that. So I'm expecting him to be, you know, high output, try to play the outside, looking to sprawl, innocent, being very patient. Maybe a old comie when he didn't throw a punch into like two minutes in and he just

finished that fight. So I think he'd be very patient in other words. And do you feel like you win? against Anderson, you win in spectacular fashion and it erases the Whitaker performance. Like now you're back to where you were going into that fight because of who he is? Oh yeah, of course. All right. Of course.

Yeah, I'm taking nothing away for Whitaker. But yeah, I'm not worried about that fight. You know, I knew what I was gunning for. Are you over it? Kind of. I'm a little salty still, but I mean, guys lose. I mean, guys had a fight the other night, 50% of the guys that fought on the car lost. Sure, sure.

You know, I can beat myself up about it. I can learn from it and move on. So I'm going with the approach, just learn from it and move on. You know, so, yeah, the only fight I'm really focused on is the one that's in front of me right now, which is innocent. And I expect them to come out as a game opponent. But we're going to be very game also. Be very patient. You're going to see a new Mr. Bronson, and I always look to finish.

All right. I like it. Nice little treat for the New York fans. I know a lot of them were a little disappointed with the card. now they get Anderson Silva versus Derek Brunson so a nice little present for them less than a month away. Great stuff, Derek. I really respect the way you handle that loss

and what you said afterwards and just putting it out there and not making any excuses and equally with what you said here today. So kudos to you, my man, and good luck. We'll see you in Brooklyn in less than a month. Sounds good. See you. All right, there he is.

Derek Brunson. How about that? Out of the blue. Who expected it? Derek Brunson, Anderson Silva, and Brooklyn? If you're going to that card, If you already bought tickets hoping for something big, are you happy with it? Is this enough?

Let me know. Great stuff there from Derek Brunson. Always appreciate his time. Always happy to talk to him on the program. Henry Hooft going on Instagram, I'm assuming, in response to Rashad Evans' interview on this program, he wrote this after six years working with a great team, The Black Zillions. I'm going my own way at a great time at some. cool people and learned a lot. Now it's time for H. Kickboxing, hashtag, and new challenges that

come my way. Nothing is forever but dreams and goals. He posted that 16 minutes ago. And so there you have it. I mean, he was a mainstay over at the Black Zillions. And you think back to that interview that Anthony Johnson gave us on this show when I told him about the comments from Glenn Robinson. and when I said that Glenn told him he only wants to, he would never leave managing MMA fighters until Anthony Johnson retired. And Anthony's response to that was, I thought, surprising. This, I think, sheds a little more light on that whole matter. The demise of the Black Sillians has been talked about for quite some time,

and they've often been able to overcome and squash those rumors. but when you hear it from Rashad Evans, and it does seem like a lot of them have gone in separate directions, but together, maybe in pockets, it kind of gives it a bit of finality. All right, let's move along. One of the big stories this past weekend, as I said, and Vickta had another great show,

one of their more entertaining shows to date. And the big story I thought going into that fight was, how would Megan Anderson look against Charmaine Tweet? He's fighting for the new interim featherweight title. It's the interim featherweight title that they decided to put on the line after what happened to Chris Cyborg. I thought it should have just been the official title because Cyborg, you know, was not booked or defended the title for a year. And I have this one year rule. So I thought it should have just been the featherweight title.

But it had the backdrop of, you know, the UFC bringing in the featherweight division, home, Durandami, Belator, bringing in a featherweight division. And all of a sudden, this division that we've talked about. about, you know, as being very shallow is very much in demand because it's now in two other major promotions. And I thought Megan was positioned to be one of the faces of the division and especially a sort of homegrown 145 or as opposed to a 135 or going up to 145. She wins. It's exciting. She gets on the mic and sends a message to Dana White home and Durandum be saying, keep the belt warm. I'm coming. Wanted to talk to her about that. She is joining us now via the magical Skype. There she is. Megan Anderson joining us. How are you, Megan?

Hello. I'm good. Thank you. I'm doing great. Congratulations on the win. Very impressive in the cage, very impressive on the mic afterwards. Thank you very much. Okay, I have a lot to ask you. First off, do you think that fight should have been for the official title because Cyborg is currently you know, battling this USADA, this USADA flagging and also because she hasn't fought. and Victa in around the year's time hasn't been booked. Did you feel like interim's nice, but this should really be for the real belt? Yeah, I thought so. It's been a year since Chris has deferred her belt in Victor. She's fought twice in the UFC now. And I think, you know, there's a lot of, there's a lot of intrigue about what she's doing, but I think we all know that the UFC's

going to let her come back to the Invicta. You know, she brings in a lot of my head. She brings in viewers and stuff like that. So I don't see why that they would let her to come back. So I think it should have been for the normal about. But interim's fine, you know, whatever they want to do. Sure, you got the belt and interim titles are very much in vogue these days in mixed martial arts. So when you find out that the UFC was bringing in this weight class, kind of out of the blue without Chris Cyborg, and again, Bellator is doing it as well. What are you thinking?

Because for a long time, being a 145-pound female fighter was kind of the kiss of death, like there's nowhere really for you to go outside of Invicta. And with all due respect to Invicta, you just can't make a lot of money, you know, fighting your entire career there. So when you found out that most importantly the UFC was doing it, how did you react? Oh, I was super excited. I was a little, I was a little question. I questioned a little bit at first why they choose two 135ers. Although I do know that both Holly Jemaine have fought at 145 previously, but that hasn't been in, you know, the last five years. So I was, I was a little intrigued by that, but I understand why they did it because one, it's a fight and it's a booked fight. And it's a booked fights. So it's, the division is more realistic than it ever has been, which is good. And two,

it's, it's, Holly is a name that people know and they recognize. So, you know, it's a draw card. I was not surprised that they didn't put Cyborg in after her turning down those two fights. So I, I wasn't surprised that they would turn around and do something like this. And now that she has this whole USADA thing, I have no idea what's going to go on with her. But it's a pretty exciting time for the featherweights. Right now, they have not. signed any true featherweight fighters. Did they reach out to you either before or after the announcement and say, okay, get by this fight, we're going to talk.

We want you to be a part of this? As far as on the way, no. No. Did you feel after you were booked in this interim title fight, okay, this is my sort of ticket. This is the perfect way to make a lot of noise, win this belt, win this fight, main event, and the timing couldn't be better because that fight's coming up. This is my chance to actually get on their radar. Oh, yeah, 100%.

Like, UFC, they know who they want. Like, I'm sure they have names of who they want, who they're looking at. And I feel like this fight was almost like perfectly placed timing because it just means like, like, I'm right there, right before the fight happens. Like, I'm able to showcase, you know, Charmaine and I are able to showcase why the featherweight division should have been given this attention a long time ago. Are you convinced that the UFC is truly focused and dedicated to the female 145 pound division? Or are you a little cautious right now? I don't know. It's different.

Like, you know, when they first introduced the banter weights, you know, there wasn't a lot of depth to the division. And it's great. So I feel like if they really truly commit to the division, it could be great. but I think once they start signing athletes to the division, that's when I'll be more like, okay, yeah, they're really going to commit to this, and it's a step forward. Almost around the same time that you fought on Saturday,

Amanda Nunes, the 135 pound champion came out and said, I want to fight the winner of home, Duran to me, I want to be a dual champion. Is a part of you worried that this belt will kind of just be used as this little piece of history that the 135 pound champion can fight? and just as a drawing card as opposed to building a division the proper way. Oh, yeah, there's always the risk of that. And, you know, it's kind of frustrating because, you know, I respect Amanda and I think

she's an amazing athlete. I said, but there's also us, as 145 girls who can't drop to 135 that deserve to be on that stage. I mean, given the recognition for the high work that we've been putting in all these years. And, you know, finally, the UFC have decided to bring in the division. but now there's 135 is saying they want to come up or she wants to be a two division champ

but what about us girls who have been fighting that haven't been given the opportunity of the UFC like bring us in like let us show you what true 145 is could do what's what's the line of thinking when you win that fight it's a fun fight but you're fighting for in victa

they're paying you and then you're on their microphone and you ask for a UFC fight because at the end of the day I mean in Victor it's kind of this awkward thing where they give a lot of people this platform, but, you know, the fighters, and I don't blame you, make no secret of the fact that you want the big payday that's coming from the UFC. And so did you feel weird about it? Like, they're the ones giving you the platform.

You know, if you're fighting some local show in Australia, you're not on fight pass. You're not getting this attention. Are you kind of wrestling with that internally or did it just happen? it kind of just happened but I do like I do understand that you know I don't want to throw Shannon under the bus you know she's done amazing for us girls and and like she gives us a platform to showcase our skills at the top level so I definitely didn't want to kind of like seem disrespectful to her but I think any any fighter who who doesn't like strive to be at the top of the sport is kidding themselves if they're not going to give them, if they're not going to put out that, that attitude or that, the call out,

if you will. The UFC is the top of MFA at the moment. And as a fighter, if you're not striving to be at the top, then you're just setting yourself up for failure. And just curious, in the last 36 hours since the win, have you or your management heard from anyone in the UFC? I have no idea at this point. I haven't heard anything. You haven't heard.

Okay. Were you happy with the win? Was that the kind of win that you needed to get on their radar in your opinion? Oh, I think so. Everyone loves a good knockout or a TKO. And, you know, everyone enjoys a good head kick, high-loor-reel. You know, it's always very exciting. and I think I think I needed to finish in such a way that there was no question that

this is where I belong and I deserve that opportunity. So I think if it went to the decision, it would have been like, oh, yeah, well, she won, but it was, you know, a decision and it was, you know, could it be boring or drawn out or I think the way it finished was was perfect for me. and with all of my fights, I look to finish. So it's just my personality. I can't help it. After the fight, I said that if the UFC is truly invested in this 145 pound weight class,

you should be their number one target. And then I heard from Cindy Dandwa. She was tweeting me and said, wait a second. Not that long ago, September of 2015, I beat Megan Anderson and her Invicta FC debut. I should be ahead of her if we're talking targets or title shots. What's your response to her? My response, September 2015 was a very long time ago. It's over a year and a half.

I say in that time frame, look at what I've done, look at what she's done. I've fought four times. Three of those people have been top ten. Two have been top ten. One has been top 15. I fought a former title contender. Cindy has fought someone coming out of the UFC on a firefight losing. streak. She hasn't really fought anyone notable. I respect Cindy, and on that night, she was a better

fighter, but I am a completely different fighter than I was a year and a half ago, and everyone can see that, and I think she's just a bit peanut butter and jealous. I want to still stay relevant. I've never heard that one before. I do like peanut butter and jelly, so that is a good one. Is it true? So you fought her in the United States. You fought her in Kansas City, right? I'm coming from Australia. Yep, it was my Invictor debut. It was like my very first fight. Yeah.

Very first international fight. And I was still very green. I'd only had maybe four, four. I was like four and one, I think, five and one. I can't remember. And I had a lot to learn. And from then I changed gyms. And in the time a year and a half,

Like each, as you can see from each of my performances in the last year and a half, every fight, I progress every fight, I'm a better fighter, I bring something new to the table. And I think she's using the fact that I've worked my way up to the top. She's trying to use that because she beat me when I was a brand new fighter coming overseas as leverage. But the thing is, she has to also work hard to get those opportunities too. A lot of these people, they don't realize, like, fighting is like 85% of this sport. The other 15% is, like, self-promotion and marketing. If you're not willing to do that or willing to do it in the right way and promote yourself

as a brand, no one's going to want to see you fight, and you can't hate on the people who do that and who are smart enough to do that, that get the opportunities before you. So instead of complaining about it, maybe she should go and try and promote herself and get these opportunities that she wants. Strong words there. I like it. Is it accurate? No, no, that's great advice for all fighters.

Is it accurate that you, so after that fight, did you not leave, like, have you stayed in the United States since then? Or did you go home and then come back? I've stayed since then. You have not gone back to Australia since that loss September of 2015. You didn't have any, like, you didn't have like an apartment or a house or belongings that you wanted to get back. Like, why did you do that?

Well, so I lived with my parents at the time because I left my job and I started training full time before that fight. What were you doing? And so I was working as an administration assistant at like an IT shop. So we did all repairs on Apple products and all that kind of stuff. And so I moved back in with my parents so I could spend more money on training and that kind of stuff. And so they just sent some of my stuff in a box. Wow. Over. I don't have much stuff. So. But when you left, when you left for the fight,

was that, was that the plan or was it you were happy, you liked Kansas City or you found, you met some people, was the intention never to come back or did that change after the fight, right after? No, like I had no intention of staying here when I left for the fight. I thought I was going to come back. And then I was given the opportunity to stay here and train full time and live here. I was like, well, you know, why not I have the opportunity? Why not take it? You know, this is a once in a lifetime opportunity.

I knew if I didn't take it, I'd be kicking myself like five years down the track going, like, man, I should have done this. So, you know, so it was like a huge, like, okay, let's just jump in. but it's paying off, I guess. Yeah, I mean, the results speak for themselves. And why haven't you gone back for any holiday or anything like that? Do you not feel ready to go back? Is there a particular reason why? Well, I've constantly been fighting every few months, so I haven't been able to.

Like, I want to go back, but it's just funny and the right time. Like, my coach is about to go do some stuff. off for a few weeks. And so I'll be taking over as the striking coach while he's gone. So I'm going to wait until he comes back before I go home. But Shannon actually flew my parents out for my fight for this last fight. So I seen them for the first time in a year and a half like two days ago. Okay.

So they showed this at the beginning of the broadcast. They showed you guys me. You had no idea that your parents and I believe your brother was going to be there, right? Well, I knew my parents were coming, but I had no idea that my brother was going to be there. Wow. And Shannon? That was like a big surprise. Shannon paid for this?

So Shannon paid for my parents to come and they all paid and got together and they paid for my brother to come over. Wow. And what was that like when you saw them walk, you know, you're seeing them in person for the first time in a year and a half? Oh, it was amazing. I cried. I cried like a little baby. I was like, God damn it. It was very emotional.

Like, I'm so close with my family. And, you know, like, you have those bad days. We're like, man, I just wish I could just hug my mom or she just hugs me and says, it's going to be okay. Just stuff like that. And I haven't been able to have that. To have her here is pretty amazing. And, you know, my dad, too, and my brother, like, I'm close with them.

And we talk. We message, like, every day. I don't know how she does it, but she lives on the other side of the world and still knows how to push my buttons and annoy the crap out of me, like all months do, I guess. But it was pretty emotional seeing there for the first time for such a long time. Are they still there with you? They are, yes. They leave on Thursday. Oh, wow.

So what a nice treat that is. That's amazing that Shannon did that. And it was great that they captured it on camera as well, and they put it on the broadcast really cool to see. So what do you think? do you think your next fight will be in the UFC or do you think you're going to have to defend this title do you even want to defend the title? I have no idea like if I have to defend the title. I'm happy to defend the title.

You know, but, you know, if my next fight is in the UFC is in the UFC, I think I'm ready for the UFC and I would love that opportunity, love to showcase that, you know, a true 145 are coming in and why we should be, have been given this opportunity a long time ago. but uh you know i i don't know what's going to happen are you going to go you should go you should come to brooklyn you should come there and sit there and watch and make some noise holly home are you going to do that funny enough like that that card 208 yeah is off february 11 which is my birthday so that's really weird it's like you got to go stars are aligning for you i know i think that I'd love to go to that car, see that live and make some noise for sure.

In the history of fight sports, you know, like James Tony wanted a shot in the UFC, he showed up, he crashed a press conference, this is what you have to do to get what you want. I'm not trying to, you know, push you in a certain direction, but all I'm saying is if I was managing you, I would have booked your ticket already. That's what I'm saying. Yes, well, I definitely would love to go. Okay, we'll talk to your representatives. As someone who surveys the landscape, are there enough? great 145ers in your opinion to have solid divisions in Invicta UFC and Belator?

I think it's like the banterweight division was. At first, maybe not so much, but you build it and it will come. I think just by the UFC, like deciding to introduce the division is a huge step forward. And I feel like there's going to be a lot of girls that are going to come out that are going to start being like, you know, maybe I can do this. It's more realistic, you know. And it's not just about the opportunities. It's, you know, as much as I love in Victor, you know, the UFC does pay more.

And, you know, you're able to make, you know, more of a living off it. So I think, I think the next two years we're going to see a, hopefully a boom in the featherweight division. I feel like there are a lot of great athletes and it's just going to just going to grow from there. Well, I think you're doing a great job and you seize the moment, most definitely. Great timing, great stuff on the mic. That stuff definitely results in good things. And I think you did a fantastic job. So congratulations to you on the performance.

And great to talk to you for the first time. I wish you nothing by the best. And I do hope you get that call up to the UFC. Thank you very much. And thanks for having me on the show. It's a pretty big honor. My pleasure. Thank you.

And we'll talk to you soon. There she is. Megan Anderson, the new interim Invicta featherweight champion. equally great performance in the cage as on the mic as well. Great stuff. Way to get some headlines, get some attention. That's what you have to do,

especially with the UFC introducing the division. And they still haven't quite, in my opinion, given us any indication how invested they are in this division. And let's not forget when they brought in the 135ers, it was a bit of a slow build. They did have Misha Tate and Katzenegano already booked when Ronda Rousey fought Liz Karmouche. But it was a slow build.

and I'm expecting the same kind of thing here. 115 was different with tough in the tournament. A lot more came in at the same time. It would be nice to have some true 145ers on the roster now to really get a sense for how invested they are in that division because, as we know right now, it's Holly Holman and Germain Derrenami, two fighters who can very much make that 135 pound weight.

And they were kind of pushing this narrative on the broadcast last night that Home can't make the way anymore, doesn't want to make the way. I think her team has been pretty clear, even on this show, Mike Winklejohn, as to what their plans are. And that's win this belt and then get the 135 belt again. So I don't know how true that is.

Also on the broadcast last night, Sunday night, they announced that Cody Garbrand and T.J. Dillishaw will be coaching Tough 25. It's the comeback season. They're calling it redemption. And it's a bunch of ex-tuff fighters. And it's being coached by Dillishan Garbrand. They're going to fight in July. Let's bring in Mr. New York, Rick.

here to talk about that. We've talked about tough. We've talked about its issues. We've talked about its inability to draw ratings and evolve and that it's essentially the same thing, same product, same show as it was, you know, a decade ago. Yep. I think Tough Four is one of their more entertaining seasons, although this one's different in the sense that Tough Four didn't have any coaches.

GSP showed up as a guest coach. there were like guest appearances, but it wasn't team versus team, if you recall. Matt Hughes and all that stuff. Would you make of the announcement? Are you interested or is it same old, same old? There's even a, you know, even a quote-unquote comeback season like it has been done and people have been asking for it.

Even that's not going to get me back into it. But I will say there was one thing that intrigued me. Go ahead. And it was that they said there will be, you know, former tough alumni winners but there will be an active UFC fighter in this

one and now I think they said one or at least one I forget what it said I know it said one but I don't remember if it said more than one or one but that intrigues me because it almost seems counterintuitive no tough is supposed to be the platform

for launching yourself into the UFC and now for the comeback season it's supposed to be the platform to launch you back into the UFC. It almost feels like somebody's getting demoted or I think there's going to create an interesting dynamic there that there's going to be an active UFC fighter in there. And also, you know, how are the how are the fighters who are not in the UFC going to react to this person?

Are they, you know, now are they king shit if they're in the house with somebody who's still in the UFC? It's, that part interests me. I'll say that. But I don't know if even that's enough to get me. to tune it. This is about as as good as you're going to do

to get me interested, but, you know, no amount of drama between Cody and TJ is going to do it for me, that's for sure. Does Cody and TJ, do they need this? No. I feel like it's counterproductive. I feel like it waters down the feud, the rivalry. Like, I don't want

them in the same gym. Again, I don't want them wearing the jerseys. I don't want them talking. I don't, I feel like it hurts the feud rather than helps the feud at this point. It helped back in the day, tough one through five, maybe tough 10, Rashad and, and, uh, and, uh, and rampage. But I actually feel like this hurts the feud. I don't think it'll hurt the feud. So getting them more time together, you feel like would hurt it? It's too much. Sometimes less, uh, of a good thing is, is a better thing. Sometimes too much of a good thing is a bad thing. You know what I mean? I think, I don't think it will hurt it. I think I think we'll get some,

decent sound bites and decent clips out of it that will at least keep it at the same level. But it definitely, you know, advancing the timeline and pushing it back further than necessarily we could have had. That is where I feel like, you know, the ball is being dropped because we could have this fight sooner if they're not both coaching tough. But I don't think it'll hurt it. I think it'll kind of, you know, level out. But I don't think it helps it either. I'm not really interested in the tough back and forth. And by the way, I don't...

Between the coaches. I don't think this delays the fight. Don't blame the show for the fight being in July because Cody had mentioned that he wants some time off. He was very active, fought four times in 2016. So, you know, all... I guess at the end of the day, I hope they get paid more. I hope that they're being compensated for this nicely.

I don't... I just wish the show would evolve. You know, if it was just the comeback, that's cool. I've been asking for that. I think that's a nice way to read. introduce people. However, I don't think they need the coaches. And I certainly don't think that you need maybe one of the best feuds right now, active feuds, upcoming fights. I don't think it needs a tough treatment. There was a time. Like, Yawanna Claudia, fine, cool, I get it, give them some exposure. People

don't know that much about them. Fine. This one doesn't need it. I think they could do it on their own. So, but would you be more interested if they just remove the coaches or about the same? I don't think this needs to be more interesting. Yeah. I've said that for a long time. Get rid of the Let every man train for himself. Hey, buddy, you want to go to the gym? Like, I know it needs a little structure, but you don't need the coaches. It doesn't need that anymore. When's the last time, you know, two coaches selected to be on that show actually got you

to watch a show? If we're watching the show at this point, it's because of the fights. It's not because of the coaches stuff. Yeah, but I don't think necessarily that you're losing what you would get in that thing. I don't think a comeback season, Sam's coaches is going to be much different than a comeback season with coaches. I think it just gives them an opportunity to bounce ideas off somebody who's, you know, an active current fighter. I don't necessarily think that, you know, whoever's going to be on this show is going to be looking to necessarily T.J. Dillish or Cody Garbrand or their team

as the own, you know, the sole guidance in their training. I think they'll be able to do their same training. Well, yes, but there is, okay, I get it. There's that history there. There's the alpha email stuff. There's, you know, who's going to go with Garbrand? Because Garbrand and Dilshah have mutual friends still. Stio, Buckholds, Benavides, et cetera. But I actually think that this could hurt the feud. By the time we get to the fight, by the time it's July, I feel like it might fizzle. It'll be fine. It won't kill it. But I just don't think that these are the kinds of feuds, matchups, rivalries that need the tough treatment. There was a time where it helped. I think that time has come and gone. I'm curious to see who the line. I've heard some names.

Nothing confirmed just yet. I'm curious to see the kind of names. And most importantly, what are they fighting for? Are they fighting for a title shot? Are they fighting for a number contender spot? That's what they were fighting for. Tough four. They were fighting for a title shot. Is that going to happen? What are they fighting for? Just back in the UFC? How many of them get back into the UFC? Are they bringing back like the Junie Brownings of the world? You know, like the real troublemakers who we haven't heard from in quite some time? There's a lot of and answer questions right now. But it does signal the fact that, you know, the talent pool just outside of the UFC, because there's so many fighters in the UFC, there's Belator and more

promotions, it's hard to have the regular tough 205ers and 170 pounders and find, you know, 16 solid prospects. I think those days are, in my opinion, long gone. And they're trying. They did Black Zillians versus ATT. They did the tournament with the straw weights. They did the tournament with the 125ers. They're trying, but I don't think they're doing enough to fully revamp the show to make it look different, feel different. Sometimes it needs a fresh coat of pain. Is there anything? What, you know, conceive of a show that you would watch.

I don't think, I think you just have to completely. I'm giving that away for free so they can go sell some ads on FSA. I mean, that's my show. You just have to end, you have to end tough and figure out a new programming thing. I just, I don't know. Looking for a fight is the butt of jokes, but I think that format makes more sense than tough at this point because. I agree.

You know. But they're not doing a great job of finding talent. That's the problem with that show at this juncture. It's tough. I mean, diamonds in the rough are a tough thing to find. Well, also, with so many, you know, with so many events to fill already, I mean, the talent pool was already getting diluted. The UFC was already bringing in, you know, guys that necessarily,

you know, wouldn't have necessarily been in the UFC years previous. Yeah. And then if they're already there, what does that leave? That leaves, you know, very, very few. and I mean, to be honest, though, hitting on a Mickey Gall and a Sage Northcut who have really actually captured people's attention, I'd say that shows batting a decent average.

I guess. What? I mean, Mickey Gall is not, now all of a sudden, Mickey Gall is not a notable name. Is the one current successful fighter coming off that show. Sage is a draw, but currently having success moving the needle as far as his career is concerned, he's the one guy.

Sage, when he fights again, will make an impact, no doubt. But as far as finding true talent, he's the one guy right now who's had success in the UFC, like continuous success, right? Yeah, it's slim pickings. It's not easy. Bottom line, will you watch? There's nothing that could happen. I mean, there's nothing that tough does for me anymore.

Okay, let's talk about Floyd Mayweather and Connor McGregor. This is a thing. I reported late last week that it's gone from the, pipe dream phase to the exploratory phase. And what I mean by that is the people behind the scenes, the important people are exploring whether or not they can get this done. And the reason they have to explore is because there are a lot of cooks in the kitchen. There's a lot of moving parts. There are an intense amount of hurdles to overcome if this fight gets made. But shortly thereafter, you see Dana White making the offer on television. You see Floyd responding. You're seeing it play out.

And a lot of people said to me, wait a second, weren't you the guy who said that this is silly, this is hogwash, this is a waste of our time. And what I say to them again is go back and listen and read what I was saying. I was saying after 205, the Monday morning after, this fight, which was non-existent, which was pipe dream phase at that time, should not have been what we were focusing on. We were focusing on on this show, history, the moment, MSG, the win over Eddie, how good he looked, etc. You can save that for a rainy day. That rainy day has come. They've now moved. It has evolved. And now it deserves our attention. Now it's a real thing that people are exploring. The UFC is coming out. Dana White is coming out and attaching Connor McGregor's name to a $25 million purse. That's unprecedented.

And whether he's the guy to give out that money, whether he's the one that can actually make it, whether Connor can do it without the UFC, these are all things that need to be addressed. But it is a story now that needs to be reported on and we can no longer roll our eyes at it. let me ask you this. Yeah. Given everything where it stands, and they're still miles apart. I mean, this thing, so much has to happen,

it almost gives me a headache. But again, it's being looked at. Yeah. They're exploring. Do you think it happens? Yeah, I do think it happens. I think it's too much money

to leave on the table. Everybody, you know, at this point, the reason it hasn't, you know, progressed even further to this point is that everybody kind of is thinking about their own best interest and protecting their own investments, and their images and their brands and all that stuff.

There's so many different players involved. But ultimately, this fight, I think everybody knows, would sell a ton of pay-per-views, would do a ton of business, and ultimately that's the driving force and what all these guys do is to promote fights. So I think it will happen. You think it happens in 2017?

Now, that I don't know. I mean, we saw, you know, we don't have to go that far back to think about how long it took to do Pacquiao and Mayweather, and they're in the same sport. So, and people weren't satisfied when it finally did happen on how long it took to get done. So I'm not holding my breath, but I think ultimately, unless, you know, there is a chance that in the time that it takes to get this done, something intervenes and somebody's Shine gets a little less, whether it's Mayweather, whether it's McGregor, and it doesn't happen.

But I think right now they have to be moving toward it. It's very clear from Mayweather's comments on ESPN and other media outlets, after. afterwards, Dana's comments, Conner's comments that they actually want to get this done. It would behoove WMEIMG to make it happen because it will make them a boatload of money. It's the most lucrative MMA and or boxing fight out there right now. I'm curious as to what your interest level is. I mean, honestly, I mean, you are going to watch it. There's no doubt about it.

Everyone will watch it. The sports world will watch it. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if it breaks the Pachial, you know, paper view number. or who knows, but what's your true like sporting interest level? From a competitive interest? Just yeah, yeah. Zero. Really? There's got to be a part of you that's

somewhat intrigued. Could a young Connor McGregor get it done? There's no part of you at all? Come on. There's got to be a part of you. More so, come on. What was your interest level in Joe Lozon-Marsin held? A lot higher. Get out of here. From a competitive, no. Now you're being hipster again.

No, no, no, no, no, no. Stop that. Stop that. You clearly defined from a competitive standpoint. You said that explicitly. From a competitive standpoint, zero, zero interest. This is, if not the, one of the best boxers of all time. And not only that, but his style, he's probably the best defensive boxer of all time.

There is not a chance in whatever, you know, deity you believe in, they cannot grant this. being a competitive matchup. It's not possible. I have zero interest in it from a competitive standpoint. But I'll tell you this, Connor McGregor will make some people believe with his mouth, and so will Floyd Mayweather. Mayweather gets a lot of credit for building his own brand,

but what he's done successfully and has continued to do successfully and is the best at, he makes you believe that the other person is actually in this fight or makes you want to see him get knocked out. Nobody is a better promoter than Mayweather, and he will make he and Connor McGregor who's a fantastic promoter himself will make you believe that this is a fight there is no fight here it is not a fight

Floyd Mayweather is not is not losing a boxing match not losing a minute of a boxing match how do you think he wins Connor McGregor does he knock him out does he win a decision I could see it happening but I mean that's not really Floyd's you know style is there a line yet I feel like I saw someone I don't know I only look at MMA lines sure so I don't know there's a boxing line on it. The hurdles are insane.

Like where does it air? What's the cut? Who's involved? But these are the same conversations we were having about Pachio too. It was, you know, who's promoting it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. What channel does it air on? And those types of things.

And we eventually got it. And I'm sure that the money will be too much that they cannot avoid it forever. And let's be clear. I mean, the 25 million offered to Floyd. I mean, that's not an offer. Floyd is not. I mean, he's, you can look. at his numbers.

It's not worth rolling out of bed for Floyd for $25 million. Not at this point. Not at this point. And for Connor, it's great. And I noted this on Twitter. Like, now that his name has been attached to a $25 million purse, regardless of opponent, how do you go back? I mean, clearly you're valuable to the UFC.

His name has now been publicly attached to a $25 million purse. How do you go back to $5,8, 9, 10 million? Yeah. There's a big difference there. I mean, his purse just doubled or tripled, whatever the case may be. Now, it is the right opponent. You have to, you know, Sure, but man, he is a job.

I don't know. You see, this, who is a bigger pay-per-view draw right now? Are you talking about Mayweather and McGregor? Them against a broomstick. Mayweather against a broomstick on pay-per-view. Do you think so? Yeah, boxing is bigger. I mean, just look at the, look at his past numbers.

Look at the burdo numbers, 300 or so thousand. Like, Connor is averaging a million now. And it's not because of Chad Men's. or Eddie Alvarez, let's be honest, it's because of him. And now you are getting more bank- entering that territory, for sure. It's also important to know you're getting more bang for your buck from a UFC pay-per-view than a Mayweather fight, right?

Those are very top-heavy. There's other fighters on the card that will sell a bit. But no, Connor McGregor is clearly the drawing interest there, but Mayweather will make you believe that broomstick's in a fight or make you want to see the broomstick win. He is the best. Connor, too. He's great.

He's great. Mayweather is still the guy. TBE. The only reason, look, there's one person who's dictating the terms of this fight. Let me ask you this then. Who's dictating the terms of this fight? Is it Connor McGregor or is it Floyd Mayweather? It's 100% Floyd Mayweather.

Just because he doesn't have to take the fight. You know what I mean? And he's put himself in that position. Not by accident. Sure, his great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, grandchildren are set for life. You know what I mean? That's not the case. Floyd.

Yeah, but, but he's done that. boxing with, you know, a sport that people were calling dead for, you know, a decade now, he's special. Floyd Mayweather is very special. I think it's all his game. It's all his game. We're living in his world. Yes.

A material world like Cindy Lopper once so eloquently put it. I will say this. One thing, as you know, I love to talk about on this show. I love talking about the barbershop fights. there's no greater barbershop fight than this one. I mean, the last great one was the Pachia Mayweather fight. This one is one that people will sit around, new school versus old school, MMA versus boxing, and yeah, you have to side with Floyd.

He's freaking Floyd Mayweather. He's arguably the greatest boxer of all time, arguably the greatest defensive boxer of all time, undefeated, 4-9-0. He's a freaking wizard. I mean, it's on a whole other level. And MMA boxing and pro boxing are two different things. But the buildup, the anticipation, you know, even the Floyd versus Dana rivalry, the quips back and forth, Floyd's saying that, you know,

Dana used to carry his bags and why are you making more money than Connor? It's all very entertaining. I mean, I think that the buildup will be very unique if it happens, but I don't think, all I'm saying is we can't keep rolling our eyes at it. It's a thing. It is a thing. It is something that is being explored. It's no longer just to sell, you know, papers or headlines or clicks or whatever you want to say. It's no longer, you know, just talk, empty air. It's none of that. It's an actual real thing. And it's amazing that we've even reached this point. If we're on a 10 step ladder, we're maybe at step one at best. So let's just be very clear here where we're at. there's a greater chance of counterfighting

Khabib, Tony, Aldo, Nate, than Floyd, but I think he would be honest when he says that that's the fight, that's the money fight for him, obviously, and it's the money fight for Floyd too. If he's not fighting Triple G or someone like that. It is the thing. It's in the exploratory phase.

We have to keep monitoring it. We'll see. Okay, let us move along. The UFC heavyweight champion, the baddest man on the world is Steep Amyochich. I have not seen him in action since September. That fantastic win over Alastair Overeem in Cleveland. I'm looking at my Twitter mentions here.

My New York Knicks just lost in heartbreaking fashion to the Atlanta Hawks, and I have a bone to pick with Mr. Sipay Miochich on the same level as heartbreaking losses for the New York Knicks, but on a different level. Let's bring him in now, and I'll explain what I'm talking about. Mr. Miochich, are you there? Yes, I am. It's good to talk to you. It's been a while. How are you?

Yeah, yeah. It's been allowed to stop. been pretty busy. Yeah, you're happy that your Indians got Edwin Encarnacion, aren't you? That we are. What's up with that? I mean, the Indians don't sign free agents. Why do you got to take our guy?

You guys are good. You're healthy. You made it to the World Series Game 7. Why do you have to take our guy? And you rub it in my face? That hurt. That's what we do, man. We got to do something.

We didn't want the World Series, right? Yeah. That hurt? Like, have you enjoyed enough success as a Clevelander? to where you were kind of like, you know what, it sucks. We haven't won in like 50-something years, but it's been a good year. I'm not going to be so sad about it. We're a great year, you know.

Of course, we've been great if the Indians would have won it, but, you know, next year's being better year for us, so I'm not really worried about it too much. But we had a great year that's when we got something we needed. And, you know, it's, oh, so you needed it so bad. You have no idea? They need it? You think they needed the Indians win? Like the Cavs win, your success, you know, just the revival?

that wasn't enough. You think they really needed that win? Oh, yeah, definitely. I think we're the guy out of an amazing, but I think just everyone's so happy because no one gave them a chance, you know, no one thought they were going to do good. Huh.

What was it like for you as someone who's so proud of being a Clevelander, being from that area, you became kind of the mascot of the city. I mean, you're out there rubbing elbows with LeBron and these guys, and you're getting credit from major outlets for starting this. was that surreal?

Oh yeah, me, I mean, it was just crazy going to the Indians game and getting out the Cavas and going to, you know, watching the cats take BP one day and, you know, talking to the photo world series and just, you know, meet the Brown, you know, just, yeah, it's been surreal, man, just I've been lucky. Did they, like, like when you're hanging and taking photos with LeBron and J.R. Smith and these guys, are they very well aware of who you are and what you've accomplished? Oh, yeah, definitely, definitely.

They were, you know, asking me questions just like I was asking. them questions about being there. What's been the coolest byproduct of you becoming champion? Someone you met and experienced something like that. What's the coolest thing that's happened? You know, there's so many things that cool things that have happened.

I don't know. I'm trying to think, you know, I just, can't do stuff like, you know, go to the, you know, going to the cabs and first game, you know, when they got the reins, going to the World Series, you know, going to bounce facts.

Just like, you know, being part of Cleveland, I guess. The thing is, like, very few, like, people win belts and they go back and then they have their next. You were in the Cavs parade. You're taking batting practice and hitting home runs. You're hanging out with LeBron. Like, for you, it was a whole different level. And then your first title defense is in Cleveland.

You have been, like, and you're getting married last year. Like, this, you couldn't have scripted a year like this for a local guy and then to get, you know, this kind of attention and love in Cleveland. it was almost, it was an amazing story to watch unfold. But I, you know, correct me from wrong, I would imagine you didn't actually believe that this all would happen, right? Like all those things happening in a row, all those things happening to you

as a result of being UFC champion. No, no, not at all. I would never think of that happening. You'd be in the parade and, you know, stuff like that thing. Even the Indians, man, just, you know, what's the things are all about me? It was crazy, you know.

I'm just grateful. You know, I would never be ungrateful for it and just so happy that I got to do it. Are you disappointed that, you know, any other year, you're surefire fighter of the year, but so many fighters had so many, you know, great performances this year and, you know, Bisping and Amanda Nunes and Cody and Connor that you didn't get as many awards, votes, et cetera, in different media outlets, fighter of the year conversation. Does that bug you? No, not at all.

You alluded to it on Twitter. You seemed a little bit, or were you kind of joking? I'll just mess around, man. So my mom was just happy that, you know, I did well on my third of the year, so I care about. Looking at the landscape, though, do you think that you should have been fighter of the year? Honestly, I don't care. It's just an award. You know, I'm just happy to be the champ and keep winning.

How often do you think back and look back at that night in September in Cleveland? To me, you came across like a superstar. You came across larger than life, the way they exploded for you, treated you. One of the greatest crowds I've ever, you know, experienced in person. Do you think about it a lot? Do you watch that fight a lot? Oh, yeah. I'm just, just feeling the vibe of watching the fans go crazy.

You're just, you know, it's a clean thing, man. It's what we do. Do you feel life has changed, like the way people react to you and treat you when you're walking around? Like, did you feel your star power go up a notch after that performance because you did it in Cleveland? Maybe. I don't know.

You know, I just, you know, Clevelanders, they just, you know, they, they, they, uh, they back each other up, just loyalty,

you know, and I think, I'm about a star priority like I said, I'm just here to win fights, you know, and, you know, like I'm overking,

give a time, it's going to work, you know, and, you know, slowly, but surely I will. How do you explain the Browns? All this success,

all this good fortune for everyone else but them. What's going on? You know, this year was an off year, you know. I think the one coach, you know, the one coach, you know, he's an amazing coach, man. He's got the rentality. He's just, a lot of guys are hurting. You know, don't be surprised about next year when you do well.

We've got a steep A prediction? Yeah, man, we didn't do well, man. I think we didn't do out there than last year, so. All right. I like the positivity. What's your take on the state of the heavyweight division? Because it does feel like it's a bit of a mess right now. We thought that Cain Verduem would lead to the number one contender fight and spot,

but they obviously didn't fight at 207. So, you know, who is on your radar right now? I mean, whoever really want me to fight, man. You know, I never denied a fight. You know, I didn't hear a fight wherever he want me to. So, I mean, whoever else he wants. That's how he always done it. Have they even reached out to you yet about, you know, a potential next fight, a potential next opponent?

No, not yet. talking about maybe May. Fighting in May? Yeah. Does that work with your schedule? Do you like that idea or do you want to fight sooner? Definitely. Definitely.

You know, I told him sooner, but he said May. So I said, okay. I'm not going to say no. I mean, it gives you more time to practice and get better. I'm of the opinion that every single one of your title defenses should be in Cleveland because of the reception. I mean, they sold it out. It was loud.

They bought a lot of tickets. Why would you fight anywhere else? Do you agree? True. 100% I believe it too. You know, we'll see. Hopefully, you know, the next one, actually I defend this one, he'll be in Cleveland again. Oh, so it's because typically the May card, although you did win in Brazil in May,

typically it's like Memorial Day weekend, the May pay-per-view, and that's in Vegas. So is it not looking like your next fight will be in Cleveland? Probably not. Oh, that's a bummer. I thought a Cleveland card headlined by Steepay and Cody Garbrandt, the new champion, Ohio boy, that would sell like in four seconds. Yeah, I know. That's what I'd die.

But like I said, man, it's what the Ossie wants and the world they want me to fight off fight. Are you too nice? Should you put your foot down and say, no, I need to go back to Cleveland. Look how good it did. Oh, of course. I mean, they don't care.

They want to fight where they want to fight where they want to fight, you know, and it's best for them at that time. Do you, like, because now we have the situation where Verdum is being offered to JDS, and it appears to we turn it down. Who do you, like,

Do you have anyone that's even on the radar? There is really no clear-cut number one contender. No, like I said, I'll fight anyone. You know, whatever you actually put in front of me, I'll fight. Really? So you don't even have a preference or you don't have any inkling as to who that fighter will be? No.

So, like I said, man, I don't really care, man. I'll fight what you want to fight. And I'm a champ for a reason. You know, I'll fight. I love fighting. That's what I do. There's been this trend lately where, guys, you know, they win the belt and then they start asking for super fights, big money fights,

new contracts, things like that. Do you feel like you are, you know, being treated like a big time champion? Do you like the way that they're compensating you these days? I definitely get me better, you know, I mean, my last fight, my challenger made more money than me. Wow. The Overdeme fight? Yeah. Really? Did you know that going into the fight or only found out about it afterwards? After. What was your reaction? terrible like uh i mean uh you know things definitely give you a change yeah change

it's not really it's not really fair of course yeah especially since you were the job the guy who sold out the arena yeah exactly and they gave that they gave the content of our money wow have you expressed that to the ufc 100 what'd they say i don't know they're just a mess right now So I would leave with that. Oh. So are you trying to work out a new deal? Yeah, of course. Okay.

And do they seem receptive to it? We'll find out. Do you feel like you're asking for something that's unfair? Clearly not. No, definitely not. I mean, there's no way. Definitely not being unfair. You know, I'm not looking for a couple million or anything like that,

but definitely getting conversated for, you know, pointing about, defending about in my hometown. you know, and also, you know, the guy making more money and he's, it's unheard of. That's terrible. Yeah. And so when you ask them for a justification for this, what you're laying out, what do they say to you? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. They just make up some excuse. Huh. But that's a contract you signed.

So would it be fair to say you're frustrated right now? Of course. Is this why you're not fighting until May? No. Like, would you have preferred to fight earlier? Well, I told them what. You know, but they said no. Buffalo is not that far away from Cleveland, right?

Am I wrong? Yeah, I mean, we'll see what they want, you know. Are you far apart right now in those contract talks? You know, my manager's taking care of. My team's taking care right now, so really I'm a guy too deep in it, but we'll find out. Okay. Is it fair to say that you're on the contract that you were on before winning the belt, and as a result of defending the belt once you think things should change?

Oh, that definitely will change, but the fact that my challenger, you know, maybe when I was just kind of a slap in the face. Yeah, yeah, yeah, wow. Had you known that going into the fight, would you have tried to change that? Oh, of course. I mean, I think that's, you know, it's not really fair. You're making money off me in my hometown and you're giving the man that's a challenger that has never won a title in that, and then the UFC,

even him more money. Do you think part of the problem in the sport is that we don't truly know, what everyone is making, so it's hard to get... Like, if you're a basketball player, you know what the other top point guards are making so you could sort of gauge your market value. And MMA, you don't because everything is private. Well, it's private to a extent, you know, and so, you know, after a fight, but I just, you know, I just felt like, you know,

just thought like I was kind of crapped on a little bit, you know, and just, you know, I try to, you know, do his right and, you know, work with them, and they just... give me a great deal. And it's my own fault, but also that's, they knew what they're doing. They took my kindness for weakness. Really? What do you mean by that? Well, I mean, just they, I was just working with them, trying to work with them, and don't want to cause any rifts or else, any rifts in the, you know, and it was the staff. And, you know, I thought, it was a good deal. They told me it was the best deal. They could

do it. And so, okay, great. And then come to fire, wasn't. So, so you feel like you were kind of, uh, this company guy doing every, that they were asking you to, and as a result, you got this deal that maybe wasn't favorable to you, and if you would make more noise, cause a stink, that wouldn't happen. In hindsight... There's no question, of course. You know, they want that, but I'm also the heavyweight champion. You know, I mean, the best in the planet, you know?

So, definitely had a little pulling, a little bit more pulling power. Of course. And you defended the title. And you sold out the arena. How many heavyweight champions have done that? Mm-hmm. I should be... You want me to come in there and do the talks or what?

No, then I'll probably get laid off. Why? What is that supposed to mean, Steve? Hey, geez. I'm just joking, brother. Jeez. You were in New York for 205, right? Were you at the fight at MSG?

Yep. Yeah, yep. It was awesome. And I'm told that you went around to some of the firehouses locally. Yep. What was that like for you? It was great. You know, I was doing anything for the phone fire.

the National Fallon Firefighter Foundation. And I just meet those guys. And those guys are animals. I mean, how many calls they go on a day? It's pretty ridiculous. And I was just lucky to meet them and see what they do day to day. And, you know, it was amazing. So for those that aren't in that industry, like, what's the difference between the

amount of calls they take as opposed to someone who works at your fire department, like in terms of activity? Night and day. Like, are they taking double the amount of calls in a 24-hour period? Oh, yeah. I mean, yeah. I mean, they don't even work 24 hours. I think they work like eight or 12 hours in a switch every, you know. Wow. I mean, I mean, they had 50 calls in a time. I mean, it was crazy. You just listen to them. I just, you know, made me feel I got a little boy. Wow. Did you know that before meeting them?

No. Oh, wow. And this group that you're talking about the, you said it was the National Firefighters Association, fallen fighter fighters. What's that? What's the name of the group that you were representing? National Fallon Firefighter Foundation. And what do they do specifically? What's that? Like what's their...

Sorry, you're breaking up a little bit. Oh, sorry, can you hear me? Yeah. What does that group, what does that organization do for firefighters? You know, it's just a foundation, you know, helps out with a family who have fallen and stuff like that. Okay. And stuff like that. And so I sold T-shirts and, you know, every T-shirt that we sold, I was, um, I was, um,

giving $8 $8 away for all years of that service for every T-shirt I sold. Okay, wow. I go back to the foundation. So you're a part of that group? Yeah.

Oh, that's great. Are you one of the spokespersons or the faces of it because of who you are in the MMA world? You know, we'll see. All I cared about was just helping out and just, you know,

doing a good part. Great stuff. Love that. Yeah. And so to put a bow on everything, seepane, we do appreciate the time. Is it fair to say

that unless your contract changes that you're not that eager to fight? No, I'm looking. I love fighting, man. I'll fight anyone, but you're going to make it right. Okay, so you are going to sort of wait until they rectify it in your eyes? Well, I mean, yeah. You'll see. I'll see. Yeah, you'll see. We'll see what happens. We'll just play by air. You are confident, though, that things will be rectified?

Of course. Okay. All right. Well, I wish you the best. Looking forward to your return. Thank you. And thank you for talking about it. And please treat Edwin with respect. He's a great guy and we'll miss him dearly. No problem, but I got you. All right.

Thank you, Stepe. All right. Stipe Miotich. How about that? Didn't expect that. Sometimes hard to get Stepe to open up as you saw. But, I mean, clearly a company guy, in my opinion, you try to get him to call out a fighter, ask for a fighter,

have a say on or take on the division. That's not happening. But so you can only, I mean, for me, it's, it's telling because you can only imagine if he's going to even open up a little bit about the contract situation, deep down, privately how he truly feels about it, to even get that felt significant. But back to the original point that sort of led to this, who is the number one contender in the UFC heavyweight division? I don't know.

I mean, we all thought it was going to be the winner of Kane Verduin. that's not happening. Kane coming off the surgery. Verdum, sort of waiting and seeing, we're told that they wanted to do the JDS fight at 207. They wanted to do it in Halifax after Stefan Strouf fell off. That doesn't seem to be the case right now. So who is the number one contender in the heavyweight division?

It's kind of open right now. I wouldn't be surprised if Kane or Verdum gets it and they just kind of cut their losses. But what if this contract thing puts them on ice for longer than, expect it. Interesting stuff. All right. In a minute, we are going to be joined by Mark Hunt. So much going on in the world of MMA. It never ends. Boom. My computer froze earlier, which was very sad. It got me all nervous. We always kind of have a little bit of a panic attack when our computer freezes, don't we? Mark Hunt has been in the news. Last week, it was announced

that he filed a lawsuit against Zufa, Dana White, and Brock Lesnar. He has been on this show twice. He has been on this show twice post UFC 200. You know the story by now. U.S. After finding out that Brock Lesnar failed two. Drug tests, one out of competition, one in competition, the out of competition test. Results came back after UFC 200. Asked for Brock Lesnar's entire purse. Asked for a clause put in his contract that he would get the entire purse of his

opponent if they failed their next drug test, if they're booked against him and failed the drug test, that did not appear to happen, was offered multiple fights, had to turn them down out of his own principles. Eventually, he accepted a fight against Alistair Overeem at UFC 209, March 4th in Las Vegas. that was not that long ago. And then I believe Wednesday it was announced, excuse me, Tuesday, Tuesday evening it was announced that he had filed this lawsuit against, as I said, Zufa, Dana White, and Brock Lesner. It is an involved case.

It is a very interesting case. It's an unprecedented case. It's a lot more complex than someone like myself can break down for all of you. so I wanted to have not only Mark, but his lawyer, Christina Denning, on the program to explain it to us, break it down for us, and really explain what it all means and where they go from here. So we're now being joined by Mark Hunt, who is in Australia and Christina Denning, who's in the United States. First off, Mark, are you there? Yeah, I'm just, I mean, I've just put this on more costing.

No problem? Yeah. Christina, are you there? I am. Great. Well, it is a great pleasure to have you both. both on. I appreciate the time. And Mark, as always, appreciate you coming on early morning in Australia. Mark, let me start with you. How long ago did you reach out to Christina to, you know, to file this lawsuit? I reached out to my manager, Mike. Um, um, when this incident happened

about, um, about this a while ago, um, after the results, I did I have not really salty I've been lost, but I lost fairly. It's done a smile right, so yeah, I reached out to Mike. And Mike reached out to Christina. Christina, when you were approached about taking on this case, did you know anything about either, A, you know, the current state of mixed martial arts and its contracts, and B, specifically the Mark Hunt situation?

You know, I did not. In a lot, in all honesty. One of the things about me is I tend to take on the underdog in high-profile cases, but I'm new to the UFC, UFC contracts. The first thing I did was review the applicable contracts before moving forward with the case. And obviously me pairing up with Mark's manager, Mike, has really been helpful because that's provided me, you know, I'm just a dumb litigator. It's provided me with the background that I need.

order to medicate. How long into your research, into your your sort of background checking, did you recognize that, A, there was a big issue here, and this is something that was worth your while? Was it apparent right from the start, or did it involve some digging? It basically involved a number of conference calls with my client just to get up to speed with sort of the pattern of behavior. The first thing that I did in terms of, you know, doing my research is I prepared and sent a number of requests for documents pursuant to Public Records Act requests. And the responses that I got from the various entities, it was useful because, you know, if you've read the complaint, there are some very specific allegations regarding a pattern of conduct. And, you know, that's the whole thing about a racketeering and a fraud claim, you just can't generally allege those causes of action. You really have to have specifics down to dates, times, people that were involved.

And so it's really been a process over the past couple of months putting this together. You know, I have been in communication with the UFC, you know, hoping to resolve this short of having to file the lawsuit. but ultimately here we are. Yeah, and of course that didn't happen. You filed the lawsuit last week. Again, for the layman, can you tell us what the charges are? Well, there's a number of causes of action. The most important ones are the racketeering of claim and the fraud and conspiracy

to commit fraud claims. There are some equitable claims like unjust enrichment thrown in there, which is basically a cause of action that says, hey, this isn't fair, and some breach of contract, but really the key claims are for the racketeering and for the fraud. And it really all centers around two things. One, the thing that's really troubling

is the four-month exemption that was granted to Brock Lesnar. And when you combine that with the history, of doping in the UFC, get where we need to go, which is a pattern of conduct that the UFC and others have engaged in for the main purpose of financial gain. And that's as close to layman's terms as I can get for racketeering. You really have to have a pattern of criminal conduct that is done for the sole purpose of profiting. Mark, you have said that you have turned down multiple fights because they wouldn't put this

clause that you were asking for in the contract stating that you would get your opponent's purse if they failed a drug test. But eventually you did sign the bout agreement to fight Alistair Overeign. Why did you do that? Well, the last thing they said to me was if you didn't take this fight or they'll get your contract. So they put me in a position. I mean, I put me in a position like, well, what am I supposed to do?

I mean, you guys, they're forces fought on me, pretty much. So you would have continued to hold out if they didn't say that? Well, that was the last word. That was topped in the letter that was sent to me, you know? So to be honest, I mean, like, I reached out to Alice, I reached out to the U.S. here by putting in a clause to help with this. Because it's not been one, it's been three fighters in a row,

and if I had taken the fight at Melbourne against Barnett, it would have been four fighters in a row. You know, it's just ridiculous. The patent just continues, and, you know, I reached out to you, like I said, and then, Alice, I said, and it was their reply. So what am I supposed to do? Then I say, oh, well, you better take this fight or else. Hello.

Well, else what? Right. Did you ask that? Well, and let me just jump in here. Sure. Because that would have pissed me off. Go ahead, because from the outset. I flew out to Vegas, and it must have been around September.

to try to accomplish two things, to make the Brock Lesnar situation with UFC 200, that situation right, and to also talk about a provision in contract moving forward that really would help deter, you know, doping in this already really dangerous sport. So lines of communication were open throughout that process, including during the times when Mark was offered the other fight. With respect to the overreem fight, it's something that the UFC put in writing that if he wasn't going to take this fight, that he would be considered to be in breach of his agreement. So, you know, at this point, we had already made efforts to get a provision in the contract,

which I think needs to be there. And we'd already tried to come up with some sort of a resolution for UFC 200, but unfortunately we weren't able to do so, and, you know, he took the fight. And I'm sure you've looked at the contract. Are they legally within their rights to enforce any action on Mark if he would have turned down this Alster Overing fight on March 4th? Well, and I'm sure that they have lawyers that would say, you know, the answer to that is yes. And in response to that, I would say, well, there are all sorts of different defenses that we would have to that claim. but, you know, Mark, it's also important to keep in mind that he's turned down a couple million dollars worth of fights.

I'm holding out, holding out for what he, you know, what he's believing in and what this lawsuit is all about. So those two factors, you know, he's turned down the money and then he gets called out on, you know, a possible breach of his contract and what he's supposed to do. And he wants the fight. how much money are you seeking from the UFC well there's no real amount that you can put on it in the in terms of the lawsuit you know when you are suing a smaller more not profitable entity or when you're suing somebody that doesn't make that much money then the punitive damages that you would be entitled to would be based on the net worth

and you know here are our our our our our damage damages include a number of different things, but punitive damages is one of them. So there really isn't an amount that we can put on it. Okay. And are you hoping, like, so there was a, a hypothesis thrown out there that signed the bout agreement, come out with the lawsuit, and now they can't, you know, they can't do anything as far as taking the fight away from Mark. Are you hoping that remains the case? Have they shown any intention of now taking this fight? Because it's unprecedented to have a lawsuit against the UFC

and then continue to fight for them and remain on the card. Do you have any idea if they're going to try to do that? Well, I haven't heard from them. Okay. So I have no, you know, as far as I'm concerned, the fight's moving forward. I haven't heard anything otherwise. While it is an unprecedented thing here, you know,

when we're talking about the UFC, it really isn't much different than any other sort of, you know, employment or contractual relationship that two parties might have where, you know, there's nothing keeping Mark from continuing to fight under this contract. I mean, the claims that he has against his, you know, the UFC, a party to a contract that he's into, they don't have anything to do with his ability to actually fight. So, you know, while it might seem uncomfortable or unprecedented, I mean, think of a situation where you've got a sexual harassment claim by someone. And the woman or the man or whoever is still continuing to perform under their contract while pursuing, you know, their claim separately. Mark, is this uncomfortable for you in the sense that you're going to have to go out to Las Vegas to fight on this card, and this is probably still going to be pending?

Does this make you feel uneasy at all? No, it doesn't make me feel uneasy at all. I don't put myself in the situation. Right. I don't really, but I don't feel, I'm not uncomfortable at all. I mean, shucks, if you want me to work, I'll go and work. But, you know, if I mean, if I can't get the fair circumstances that I'm asking for, well, then this is how it's got to be. be. You know, you don't

help me out with what I'm asking, which is pretty fair. I'm not asking, you know, I'm asking for what, even playing field is all I'm asking. You've done wrong already, so you need to pay for that. Did they ever give you... You know, you're done wrong already. That needs to be sorted. And all I'm asking is even playing field

moving forward, you know, from this odds, and that's still going to get looked at. So, you know, it's not kind of uncomfortable for me. I mean, I'm a fighter for God's sake. I mean, I get beaten up for a living. Yeah. That's true. You're right. You're 100% right. Did they ever give you a specific reason why they wouldn't put this clause in? And let me take that one if you don't know. I have no idea. Go ahead. Well, it is true. It's an interesting dynamic. So the UFC anti-doping policy, it allows for the USC to actually punish Brock Lesnar by actually taking his entire purse back from him plus all of the pay-per-view proceeds. It's right there.

in the policy, and they could have exercised that option. What's interesting is before Brock Lesnar did have his due process to go through, because we didn't know if he was going to challenge the findings of the doping violations, right? Yeah. So while that process was pending, you know, the UFC brought up a point, which was the Nevada Athletic Commission pursuant to the statutes in Nevada, they have the ability to also impose penalties on Brock.

And so the UFC says, well, hey, you know, he hasn't even been found to have, we don't know if he's going to challenge it, if he's going to fight it, and if he's going to win. So how are we supposed to impose the penalties that our own policy has when they're in conflict with the regulations? So I said, okay, flew back home. San Diego. We waited. there was a continuance or two of the Lesnar hearing. And then it comes out with the stipulation.

Well, the stipulation didn't admit to intent on the part of Brock, but it didn't dispute the presence of those substances in his system, which are in violation of the anti-doping regulations. So then we said, okay, UFC, he's, you know, the Nevada Athletic Commission has imposed a 250, thousand dollar fine that's you know and a suspension why don't why don't you exercise your ability to take back the difference between the purse and between the fine amount plus is pay-per-view proceeds which it says right here that you can do but they wouldn't do it and so we've gone through

an evolving you know negotiation with the UFC it's not based on there's nothing in and I want to be clear about this, there's nothing in Mark's contract with respect to UFC 200 that says, if Brock found to be cheating, then these are going to be the penalties. I don't want to, I don't want to suggest anyone out there that that that is in the contract because we acknowledge that it is not. But what we're saying is, hey, you have all these avenues out there in terms of cracking down on the use of banned substances. and the Nevada Athletic Commission has its list of penalties that it can give,

and the UFC has its list of penalties that it can give, but neither one of them is doing the maximum amount of punishment. So, you know, what incentive does Brock, who's coming from a one-off, who, you know, admits that he was in negotiations for three months before June of last year, which would put us at four months before the actual five, right, what's to prevent him from just sitting on his hands, not signing about agreement, you know, getting all the drugs out of the system, and then testing clean on the first few tests, right?

And then when he gets right up close to there, he knows what his big payday is going to be. And he can see what the precedent is for the fines and penalties that are imposed on him. And so that's, you know, that's the basis of what our requests and demands have been. and it's really, you know, something that Mark is owed, in my opinion, based on the conduct of the UFC and Brock Leznor leading up to this fight. And did the UFC, Christina, give you any specific reason why they would not punish Brock the way you were suggesting they should have? The only thing that I've heard is we've honored our commitments to Mr. Lesnar.

and that was in response to my question shortly after UFC 200. When I say shortly after, I mean probably in September, which was, hey, did you guys pay him? And that was the answer. Has Brock Lesnar been paid? The answer was, we've honored our commitments to Mr. Lesnar. I don't know what that means, but that's the only response I've gotten. Mark, you always said that you wanted to wait and see what the Nevada Athletic Commission did.

What was your reaction? to the punishment they gave Brock Lesnar? Well, I mean, pretty much as a slap on the risk, it's not even a punishment, to be honest. I mean, he took the money that they made their night and paid that fine. I mean, like I said, if I had died that night,

would that punishment be the same? Yeah. People say, you didn't die, but if someone had, further up down the fare, if someone dies and they give up those penalties, do you think people will understand that that's a harsh enough penalties? No, it isn't.

I think we need to punish these cheaters in the pockets of the fireworks. and then it'll make all these other as a chance for all these other cheaters to come along and say, well, we don't get no money for it. Well, then why do it? You know, to be honest, I don't think it's harsh enough at all, no. And so right now you're going to continue to fight for the UFC, but is it fair to say that in a perfect world,

like the best case scenario would be that they let you go so that you don't have to deal with these rules anymore is on top of the monetary, you know, damages that you're seeking, would you like to be released? Well, that was on them, though, you know, I mean, I'm under contract with them, and they're under contract with me. Yeah. Okay. That I couldn't go anywhere else.

So, I mean, like, that's a position right now. It is. So if I couldn't work anywhere else, and I'm still trying to get my fair deal in this thing, well, what am I supposed to do? If they're going to let me go, let me go. At least I can go work somewhere else. You know, my family is going to look after my family and my commitments as well. And he just kind of sit me at the back of the bus without having any work.

You just can't do that. And of course, regardless of whether you're trying to do that, so. Alastor Overeem has a history with PEDs. Were you hesitant to take this particular fight? You could have taken another fight with a guy who doesn't, like, why Overeem? Well, it's not, it's not, I don't make these choices. Yeah. You know, I don't ask to fight anybody.

All I ask is to fight the best fight as in the world. All I'm doing was when they said, do you fight this person? Yes, because I'm employed with him. So when they say, oh, do you fight this guy? Of course I fought. I fought anybody in the world. And all I was asking for was an even plan to try to put a clause on, I reached out to Alica.

I, you know, all the doors are closed. So, you know, this is why we're here now. Sure. Because of this situation. You want to close the doors on me? We're here now. So what are you going to do? And Mark, what do you say?

Like I said, I didn't ask to fight anyone. They just say, would you fight this person? I say yes. Yeah. I can't pick and choose who I'll fight otherwise. Everyone will pick the easiest fighter they can and then go and fight them and be the world the worst best. What do you say to the people who point to the interview that you did beforehand

when you said that Brock was juiced to the gills? You know, you knew the situation. You knew the playing field. You knew what to expect. What do you say? Knowing, knowing and people say that knowing, I mean, knowing and assuming at two different things. I mean, I assume a lot of stuff.

I mean, looking at the guy, he comes from a person, his background, I didn't actually know these things. I've always going to say, well, he looks like he's cheating. Of course I'm going to say it, because that's the way I am. I say things that I, well, I see it how I said. So, I mean, I'm not going to just say, I mean, I didn't actually go to test to myself. But, I mean, everyone says in the whole you knew.

Well, I don't actually, I didn't actually know. Assuming someone is doping is different from knowing. That's the difference. I mean, I didn't know. I mean, I assume everybody's on an even playing field up at the top, and until they get caught up, me, and then it ruins everything, okay? Unless actually test them myself, then I wouldn't know. And that's one of the allegations in our complaint is that, you know,

the USC has a non-delegable duty here. This isn't, you know, especially considering that they granted the exemption they could have paid a nominal fee to expedite the results. They could have done something to, you know, to make sure that this guy wasn't used to the gills. And they didn't. That's not Mark's responsibility. And again, having admitted that I'm not an expert in the UFC and the history

and of the sport, I'd imagine that there's a certain level of talking smack that goes on before the fights, right? I mean, that's part of the whole, that's part of the whole thing, is being able to say, hey, I'm going to kick your ass to your opponent. And so I,

you know, I don't, I don't know, and especially since, you know, Mark wasn't involved in the legal side of it. He didn't, you know, have the task of breaking this pattern of behavior down beforehand. He didn't,

he didn't conduct all the research and do the Public Records Act request and find the pattern before he fought and then knowingly go into it. I mean, and if, you know, I've been monitoring the comments and the feedback from people out there that are reading the articles, and that's the number one thing that they're quick to point out. But that doesn't take away from the UFC's obligation to ensure an even playing field in the sport and fair competition. in your complaint you cite the the UFC 152 situation with Vitor Belfort. Do you believe, Christina, that the UFC has a history of covering up PD usage before fights?

Well, that's exactly what our complaint alleges. Okay. Do you have... And in that 152 fight, I don't know if you read in the complaint, but the email that went out, so you've got a fight that's happening. and some people are privy to the information that the other person is, you know, has 2.5 times the allowed or not the normal amount of storage in their system. But, you know, what do they do?

They throw them in the ring with somebody. So without that person knowing. So again, for the layman, what are the next steps now? You file the lawsuit. Now what happens? Well, as of Friday when I checked on it, it was out for service. Okay. Which means that that'll trigger the deadline for the defendants to respond, which will be within the next 30 days.

Okay. They may, each defendant will have that certain allotted amount of time, so it will depend on who gets served first. I imagine Brock might be a little bit more difficult to find. And then we are going to wait for them to file a response to pleading, which will likely be in the form of a motion to attack our complaint. and have some of the causes of action thrown out, but we're ready for that. How long does it take for something like this to a resolve? I know they're all different, but like, are we looking at multiple years or could it be shorter? And I haven't been tracking that particular district court.

I do have some cases in, you know, Southern California district court and your average timeframes probably one and a half to two years from start to finish. Okay. But it could be quicker or it could be longer. And especially considering the nature of the case and the defendants, you know, there can be motions filed and this could drag on for a while. But we have a team assembled and the resources to do what we can to push it along. Mark, how many fights do you have left on your contract?

I have, I think about five fights. I don't know. I mean, they've offered me too. I should know. About five. Okay. And, you know, obviously you're taking on some heavy hitters here. Like, financially, is this a problem for you to be involved in something like this?

Well, of course, it's always a problem, but it's what's right. You know what I mean? This is not so. So if I say no to this, I'm just, people say it's about money. Well, it's about grabbing the cheaters' money. It's about checking the cheating out of the sport and make it even. It's about an even playing field for me at the end of the. The day, and I mean, I mean, I didn't sign the contract regardless of how you just set up.

Cheating is cheating. I mean, I signed a contract to fight someone that's not doping, to be honest. All the guys aren't doping, you know. And regardless is that they're heavy hitters because people put, I mean, every celebrity in the tan, every company is put there by people, normal people. They don't get to their position without being people all going and following them, okay? Without the people, there's no companies. Yeah. They've got to remember that.

do you feel comfortable with the idea of this being your legacy mark i mean if you win this this is again unprecedented it's seismic does that like do you think about that sort of thing this is my way of changing the sport you know you kind of your story is such a unique one with how you came into the ufc and all that stuff but this this will change everything well to be honest you know like i said i didn't even want to be a fighter if you read my book you'll understand me totally this is um like i said i didn't want to be a fight i'm here now I've fought for many, many years, now 27 years or something. I probably eat 15 or something at the top end of two different sports.

And this is just another fight. This is just something I thought was wrong. I mean, I haven't understood it. You know, it's just become a pattern to me that's happening. You know, one of the times if I said no to doing this, and I'll be like, oh, well, then I'm just going to go back in the Arctic gone and just get a paycheck and be like everyone else. But, you know, no, it's not right.

I know my life is at risk. All these fighters are put into the clean guys that are putting their lives the line here. These guys that are cheating, they're assaulting, or I think there's assault and battery on the guys that are cheated because the contract we signed that they signed is not to allow themselves to enhance themselves. So, you know, that's actually a criminal offense, I feel. And I think that until someone dies is when people are going to realize that. Someone's going, but if someone's going to die, they're going to go, well, that guy was cheating and, you know, what are we going to do about it? Well, in my year, fine and at $250,000. Well, what about

Because, man, it's ridiculous. And Mark... The pattern has been continuing, and I'm over. So the pattern has happened to me so many times. I mean, I take a lot like a man all the time, but when this sort of stuff happens, it just keeps continuing. But I've got to say something. I'm not going to go to the back of the bus and sit down.

Hell no. You get to the fucking back of the bus. Have you heard from other fighters, Mark, since you filed this lawsuit in support of you? Well, I mean, I can't really... You know, I'm coming out of the fighters. is what other fathers doing is what other fathers are doing. You know, I mean, they have their own reasons why they don't stand up and say something.

You know, at the other day, you know, we're employees, but, you know, even though the company says we're not employees, and without us, they're nothing. People forget that. Without the fathers, about the people, these companies won't be nothing. I have two last questions for you, Christina, and I really appreciate both of your time here today. Have you, given your history and being someone who's... new to the sport, the state of UFC contracts is a hot topic in our sport. From your perspective, are these problematic? I mean, on top of the PD stuff, based on your research, your knowledge,

your experience, do you agree with those who say that the contracts are, you know, not really in favor of the fighters? Okay. So I am, you know, my, my history is as a litigator, I'm not a sports manager. I'm not Marx manager. I'm not as agent, and I don't negotiate those contracts. However, with that said, one thing that I find troubling, at least with respect to this issue, is the fact that the UFC anti-doping policy, it models itself off of the world anti-doping policy, which actually, and it states it right in the contract, and it states that one of the goals is to have the best doping program in the world and to ensure a level playing.

So in this instance, the world doping program actually has a provision in it, which is similar to the one that we're asking for, that Mark's asking for, with respect to, you know, taking the money and the winnings back, from the person that's found to have been doping and give it to the non-cheating competitor. And so where I see a problem with respect to just this lawsuit only, and I can't speak intelligently about, you know, the state of affairs for employment as to all UFC fighters or the state of the contracts if they're independent contractors.

But I can say that I think it's problematic that a policy that models itself off of the world, anti-doping program doesn't in fact do so. And I also think that it's troubling that it appears to, at least with respect to, you know, the Nevada Athletic Commission and its jurisdiction over imposing penalties, it seems like there's a couple of things that could be ironed out with respect to having the doping program actually coordinate in a better way with the NAC's jurisdiction than it currently does. And this might be a tough question for you to answer, but I'll ask anyways, do you expect them to try and settle beforehand, or are you expecting them to try to fight you

in court? Can you even, I don't know, guess as to what direction this will go in? I can't, but I'm buckling down, you know, for a fight. Okay. So, you know, my phone hasn't rang and I'm not sitting around waiting for it to ring. Okay. Wow, fascinating stuff. Anything else that I didn't ask you just in the interest of, you know, me not knowing, you know, not being a lawyer,

is there any other element to this that you would like to address or clear up while we have this platform? No, I think you've done a great job with coming. and a lot of what people are wondering about. Okay. Well, I can't thank you enough. I wish you the best. And Mark, appreciate the time, as always. Good luck, training for the fight and hope to see you out there in Las Vegas. Best of luck to both you. Thank you.

Hey, guys. Thanks, man. Yeah, guys. Take it again. Bye. All right. There he is. Mark Hunt and his lawyer, Christina Denning. Fascinating stuff. Fascinating times. Wow. An active UFC fighter, a fairly popular one, a contender, if you will, involved in a lawsuit with not only Zufa, Dana White, and Brock Lesnar. I did reach out to the UFC late last week to get any kind of comment from them on this, but they declined to comment at this time, which I expected,

but wanted to give them the opportunity to say anything if they wanted to. And I'm curious to see, do they try to settle? Do they try to fight? Wow. And then, of course, there's the Brock Lesner element to all of this. Really, really fascinating stuff. And say this about Mark Hunt. he is a man of his word. He said if that Nevada Athletic Commission punishment was what he

expected it to be and if they did not put in that clause that he would seek legal damages. And he has done just that. And you wonder, one guy, one fighter against three behemists, you know, how long can he sustain that? But kudos to him for at least saying, or I should say doing what he said he was going to do. Sticking true. to his word. That, you know, for whatever it's worth, I think that's honorable. So we wish him the best. And hopefully they can find some kind of resolution where everyone is happy and able to move

on and he can resume his career. He returns March 4th, at least for now. Okay, just a few minutes left in the program. I do believe that there was a bit of a stream issue, but we have, we have rectified that, correct? Near Creek, was that you're doing? Yeah, yeah. It is a bit of a quiet day here today.

I tripped over a wire and we unplugged. it. That is typical. No, but there was a stream outage. We took care of it. We're back in business. Any final thoughts on the Phoenix card? We have talked about BJ Penn.

We did not address Joe Lozahn losing a very close split decision and then immediately on the microphone afterwards. I would love to talk about this. Saying, I lost. That's the wrong call. He deserved to win. Holy smokes. What can you say about Joe Lozon?

I love Joe's honesty. I love Joe feeling like he lost. Now, we'll remember. A very memorable time that this happened, at least for me, because I was in attendance, UFC 123 in Detroit, Rampage Jackson, surprised, feeling like he edged out a decision over Machita that he may or may not have reserved. After he reviews the tape and kind of separates himself from the moment and, you know, separates himself from the fight by a little bit of time, comes back and says that he ultimately feels like he won the fight.

I think Joe will be able to, you know, have a clearer analysis after a little bit of time. He had just left the cage. He hasn't reviewed the film. He hasn't, you know, he just got out of it. The adrenaline was still going. Once he settles down and reviews it, I think he'll be more clear-headed. Now, I don't know if he will still think Marcyon held one. I don't know if he will then change his mind to think that he won.

But I think that giving that separation is important for him to get the clarity that he needs. But kudos to him for reacting and feeling like he was giving an honest account of what happened there. But I don't think that that's the best time to do it. I think he will have a clearer picture of what happened with a little bit of time between it and looking at it, you know, from an outside angle. Who do you think won? I think Joe won. Oh, wow. I think that Joe won the first.

first round. One judge gave it 30 to 27 for Marcine. Don't like that score. I'll say this. The action in the first round, Marcyne seemed a little bit more in control toward the end of the round, but Joe knocking him down

made the difference for me. He was landing harder, and I think round one was for Lozon for me. Now, round two is the one where I think there's controversy because some people will say, Marceen held, controlled Joe for four minutes and what, you know, 45 seconds of that round, with very little, with very little wavering in that. It was pretty much his round until Joe got that submission attempt.

And for me, that was really the only significant portion of that round. Marcyne was not doing enough with his top position for me to be able to award him that round. Now, granted, I can understand if somebody has a different. opinion and awards that round to Marcine and then therefore gives him two and three. I think we're all in agreement that three Marcyne held one. Joe didn't have as much of a response. But in round two, I think Joe was pretty close to getting that submission. And I think that that was by far the most significant action of that round. I don't think Marcyne did enough to counter that, even though he had control for a very long period of time. For me, I scored that second round for Joe

Lozahn. And I don't think I'm alone. I think if anybody had that fight that way, that's how they would have scored it. But I think I'm in the minority for sure just because the media scores on the great website MMA Decisions.com were all for Marcine. So I don't think there will be many people in agreement, but I think there's a reasonable case to be made that round two should be scored for Luzon. All right, fair enough. But I think that he may separate himself, take a few days, review the footage,

and say, I still think Marcyne held one, and, you know, who knows better than him. He felt like he was controlled in that fight, and clearly he was. I just think that Marcyne didn't do enough a round two. So admirable, though, to see someone in a close. It's incredible. Just come out right away and say, no, no, no, that was wronging. That guy deserved to win. And he said he's going to call to fight for his job because that would make it, what, three in a row or four in a row?

I think it would be two in the UFC for Marcyne held. Really? That's it? Yeah. Oh, okay. I mean, the days of guys getting cut after two long. losses in a row, I think, are long gone. But yeah, that was just his second fight. And he lost a unanimous decision to Diego Sanchez. Three or four overall, but that was Belvoir days. That's, that's okay.

I don't think he's going anywhere. No, especially such a close fight. But Lazon's a man. Ben Saunders, close win over Court McGee, I hate when the fighters in a fight like that have to apologize. Yeah. I mean, it's just, it bothers me. Like, you don't have to apologize to anyone. You showed up to work. You fought in a cage against another man. I know fans could do whatever they one and they're well within their rights and they bought the tickets blah blah but you don't have to apologize you really don't um sergio peddiss with a win over john moraga otherwise yeah look great um of no we got we got to give a shout out to lexy olinick for the ezekiel choke uh the first in ufc history that man is a behemoth i mean that is a bear to do that to a guy um you're on your back

your opponent is in Mount is just amazing I mean the strength that you must possess to pull that off is unimaginable Victor Pesta gets submitted by Alexiolanik just an amazing win and like I said historic

it's never been done in the UFC before and also of note Nina answer off the partner of one Amanda Nunes with a nice win for her and a great moment inside the cage with just a few seconds left in the fight. She submits Jocelyn Jones, Liebarger,

any other performance that really stood out for you? There were a couple of great COs early on. Mike Goldberg. Yeah, Mike Goldberg in the crowd. In the crowd at UFC Phoenix. If you've parted ways with your employer, would you be in the crowd the first fight afterwards? I mean, maybe this is going to be a thing.

Maybe Mike Goldberg. Every time at every UFC event. Doing the hang loose thing? Yeah. You were at Invicta. I was at Evicta, yeah. What should we highlight here before we go? Tremendous amount of finishes.

Yeah, it was a great card. Megan Anderson's performance, obviously, against Charmaine Tweet, which, you know, should put her in good position for whichever, you know, 145 pound division she ends up in, whether it's staying with Invictin defending her title, whether it's, you know, moving on to the UFC. Clearly, she's, you know, in the top echelon of 145. there was an incredible fight with Celine Haga and Amy Montenegro where Amy in the was it the first I think it was the first round

looked like she had a submission and Haga tapped but one split second after the bell so it was a submission but not a submission then we come to the third round and Haga chokes Montenegro out before the bell rings. And now, so the controversy on that end is, besides the fact that there were two finishes that went to the bell, which is incredible, she was unconscious before the end of the fight, which would indicate in my mind. And as far as I understand the rules, and I think, you know, we've seen John McCarthy say this since, if you are unconscious before the fight is over, that would be a loss.

but it went to decision and Montenegro took the decision. So it would be interesting to see kind of what comes of that. But it was a bonkers fight. Sejara, Eubanks and Aspen Ladd had a great back-and-forth fight. Aspen Ladd loves a good rashguard, doesn't she? That's right. I saw you on Twitter with that. Her and John Danner.

You need to have a tet-a-tete about the state of rash guards. Yeah, you got to keep the rash guards stylish. KGB Lee with a nice return Body shot A really nice victory there Overall Top to bottom One of the best Invicta cards

For sure Wow, high praise And we know Invicta cards are often Pretty fun Sure sure sure So it was a good one Tyron Woodley

And Stephen Wonderboy Thompson were booked Shortly after our show last week I think in large part Due to what we did On the show last week We kind of kick them in the bud You push the agenda along

For sure That happened And also Habib versus Tony Ferguson So it's a great one-two punch. It's the fights that they wanted. Ferguson stands his ground, gets the fight, seems to be happy with the pay. It's for the interim belt.

Does that bother you? Or can we just view these interim titles as, A, an avenue for the fighters to get paid more, and B, a number one contender title. Who gives a crap? Well, personally, it means nothing to me. So if you're asking me, do I respect these interim titles that are being created? The simple answer is no. But on the other side of the coin, if you're asking me, do I want fighters to get paid more because they're considered a champion?

Hell yes. Do I want them to be considered champions? Do I want them to have the prestige, excuse me, of saying that they were a champion in the UFC? Absolutely. I think they deserve it. And especially if the belt is going to be hung up. But Connor McGregor is not sitting on this belt for long enough for me to think that an interim title is the right way to go. Especially in the co-main event, right?

It's like you didn't even need it for the main event. I can't get behind the idea that it's not that this specific fight is for an interim title. It's the concept of creating these interim titles becoming commonplace now. It just, I don't like it. This one might be the most bizarre of all only because they didn't need the main event. You have an official title fight in the main event. So it's like making Holloway Pettis co-main to DC Rumble interim just for the sake of making it an interim, if you get what I'm saying. You know what I mean?

Yeah, I would say that one was a little even more bizarre. No, but that one became the interim because it became the main event. But I'm saying if it would have remained co-main event and you still made it interim, it's even weirder. Yeah. But I like it because they're both getting paid more as a result. So then who really? And they're getting five rounds.

They're getting five rounds. That's also important. So yeah, 209 is good. But they did cancel the March 3rd card, which was the night before. I think hopefully a sign that they are not just going to book dates and events and try to plug holes. I think you got Steve Miochich, you take him to Cleveland. You got this guy, you know, Habib, you take him to Russia. You don't try to just plug holes and, you know, and also maybe, you know, I think that

they're paying the price for 205 when you do three title fights on one night. Then you try to do another a couple weeks later at 206. Then you have two at 207. That's essentially five titles being tied up of your 10 in the span of a month and a half. And I still think they're trying to get back on track and trying to get those titles active again. I mean, witness the fact that right now essentially one championship fight has been booked. As far as, like, current champions, that's the Tyrone Woodley fight. They're going to introduce another, and that's a part of reason why they're introducing one in Brooklyn.

But a lot of those guys are just inactive because they have to get going again. Just Gunn-Drudge and Angela Hill is being targeted for the Houston event. But right now, it's not 100% just yet. I'm told that the contracts are out, but not 100%. You hope that they're going to waive this four-month, you know, testing pool thing that we talked about. And it seems like cooler heads prevailed there. and they came to their senses that it made no sense. So that's a fun fight for the Houston card.

Robbie Lawler leaves American Top Team last week. He is still not talking, still not explaining the reasons behind it. So we await word from him. Evangelista Cyborg Santos has officially retired. I think we all can get behind that. Yep. After, you know, the horrific injury that he sustained in that fight against MVP. And I wanted to give a shout out to Mike.

Swick, who started his own MMA website, Mike Swick.com. And he's doing great stuff. He interviewed me last week, and I thought he had some great questions. It was a great interviewer. Also, I announced late last week that I am doing this amazing project interview, if you will, with Conne McGregor. It's January 28th in Manchester, England. There's this Black Tie event.

They've sold 5,000 plus tickets. An experience with Connor, it's called. and you can learn more about it at an experience with.com. It's this company that does these events with the likes of Al Pacino and Arnold Schwarzenegger, Sugar Ray Leonard, celebrities where you kind of go out, buy tickets, like you're going to see a comedic act or something like that, but here it's a live interview. And they reached out to me to do the interview, and I was honored and very excited to do this. And it's also going to be airing.

The tickets are sold out, I'm told. I heard that once they announced me as the interviewer, they just sold all the tickets. but you can watch it live on January 28th at around 6 p.m. Eastern Time on www. www. notorious live.tv. It's an eye pay-per-view, just a few bucks. One hour, no-holds barred, me and Connor, toe-to-toe, back together again. And what a time to interview Connor McGregor with all this Floyd-Mayweather stuff. So this is in Manchester, January 28th. I'll be going for 26 hours to Manchester to do this. But I'm very excited. And my one question is, will you be buying the pay for?

pay-per-view, Mr. Newark, Rick. Come on, it's must-see TV. Must-C-TV. I will be there. You will be turning down the opportunity to watch the Denver prelims to watch this. I mean, yeah, of course. Wow. I am honored.

What? I mean, you know, I love you. Wow. I love you dearly. Thank you. But it's not for you. I mean, I want to hear from Connor McGregor. Well, some have said, you know, we were excited about it, but once we found out that

you're doing the interview, our interest level went up tenfold. I would say that those people. are probably correct. Okay. But, you know, it's the time to hear from Connor McGregor. I'm stoked that you're getting this opportunity and I think I'm not alone in saying I will be watching for you. Nice. So the notorious or excuse me, notorious live.tv and experience with.com is where you can learn more about it. And a lot of people have asked me if I'll be doing any meeting greets or anything like that. I don't know why this particular time I'm being asked this, but maybe, you know, in the hotel or something like that beforehand. Because I know he's doing it as well, but I'm not,

I think that's why, because he's doing the meet and greets. They're probably thinking, well, if Ariel's over there too, maybe we get the two-for-one combo. Right. Yeah, maybe. The Chetta makes it better. Three last quick things for you. A, how's your relationship with your dad? Oh, man.

Are you guys back on track? This is what you're going on. Are you guys back on track? Haven't I had? Okay. So, first of all, my favorite fighter, BJ Penn. Yes. Loses in a way that I would not have liked to see him lose.

I'm heartbroken. then Alan Jovan comes on the show and calls me, calls me out like a little punk. Like he just suns me. He destroys me. Now you're going back to, what is it, two weeks ago. Then I cut the stream, which I feel bad about already. Then now you're going back to an award from two weeks ago and bringing my dad into it. I mean, when does this end?

I just want to know what's life like after giving out the most ridiculous award in the history of awards. You know what I was thinking. when Chale Sun was on the show he talked about his comeback and he talked about the importance of a comeback and it being the second biggest thing that can be promoted.

For drawing, not for... Yeah, and it came to me and it said, you know... I can't believe you're actually doubling down on this right now. This concept of a comeback being important and taking precedence and overriding and this

draw that is associated with certain comebacks. Totally, totally. Now, not BJ Penn's come back for the smart guys. For the smart guys out there, like Casey, who are... Who? Some guy, don't know. Okay.

That are making jokes at the expense of both BJ Penn and myself for the pick. No. Warranted. No. I will never back down from this position. But things are great with my dad. My dad is an avid watcher of the show. He will be happy that we're even having this discussion right now.

For those that don't know, I mean, Rick's dad browbeated him. I mean, he was so disappointed in him for his insane pick and then the insane logic that followed the reason why he decided to give Rondarazzi to come back. I mean, it was just fantastic stuff. Kudos to you for actually putting it out there. But holy smokes, your dad is a legend. He was very upset with how stubborn I was being in pedantic. And he was not the only one. There were a lot of people on Twitter.

Still, I'd say I get, you know, a handful of day. Five a day. making fun of it up. Keep it up forever and ever. Keep it up. How about this? Next time you do one of those periscope thingies that you do, I mean, this is must-see TV. Let's do one with your dad. Let's get his take on things. I think that would be a very interesting periscope. Let's do it. Let's do it. You and your dad, I mean, I tuned into the one on Saturday. It's you looking at yourself on your screen. You say one word in the first 30 seconds.

You have to wait for the next 30 seconds. You have to wait for the questions. Someone even asked you about me and you kind of gave this sort of no-cell answer. and that's when I turned it off. You should have... I should have stuck around? Well, no, I mean, if I had said what I really felt... Oh, yeah, yeah. These Periscope things are just...

I hope you keep those up, and please bring in your dad. I want... I might. It's not a bad idea. He's the smarter one when it comes to fight stuff. All right. This is where you went with that. This is where we end. Wait, let me ask you something.

I'm not sure if you addressed it when I was, you know, looking at the stream stuff. Sure. I know, but did we react to that fight? Do you think that that's the fight to make for an Anderson Silva coming back? I don't hate it. That's the fight for Derek Brunson to kind of get him. I don't love the short time frame, but I don't hate it.

Brooklyn needed a name. Anderson wants to come back. Brunson gets a bigger name than in his last fight, which he lost somewhat spectacularly. I mean, whatever you think of those rankings, they are ranked 7 and 8. So, I mean, from a ranking standpoint, if that means anything to you, sure. I mean, who would you rather Anderson fight at this point? Well, I am of the opinion that it's fine.

I'm okay with it. I saw a lot of people saying what, like, what's going on here on Twitter? And I don't necessarily feel that way. I think it just came out of left field. There were no rummings, no rumors. I'll tell you a fight that I think actually makes sense now that is very sellable, Wydeman Anderson 3. Yeah, I don't know if I want to see that again.

you could sell it. Second fight was a little weird. Anyway, that's not happening in Brooklyn, but it would have been huge for Brooklyn. Could you imagine with Wyman? Wyman's still nursing some injuries, but I don't hate this fight. Brooklyn needed something. Yeah, this is good. This is fine.

Brooklyn needed something. And I still feel like the jury is out on Anderson right now, the state of his career. Like, who exactly is Anderson, Silva? Is he the Diaz Anderson? Is he the Bisping Anderson? Is he not quite the Kormier? But like, who is he at this point? So I think there's enough intrigue where it gives that card a little more umph,

beef. I'm with you. All right. That was it. I mean, we had some Twitter questions today, but we talked about them all throughout the show, except for that one. We had them all. And we had Brunson on, so obviously that addresses it as well. All right. Well, good stuff. Appreciate the time, as always. Thanks to everyone who tuned in. You can hit my music. Gone a little longer here, but it is a holiday. And I know you're all kind of bored at home, so I wanted to give you a little more to chew on. I also wanted to send my condolences to the family of the legendary Jimmy's Superfly Snooka. I used to frolic in my backyard as a youngster with the Superfly trunks, the leopard trunks,

you know, the singlet thingies. Those were those, that was my thing. That was my guy. Love Superfly. Jumping off the top rope, top of the cage, Don Morocco, MSG, 1983. I mean, that was legendary stuff. And so I was sad to hear that news that he passed away, or at least the news came out yesterday,

that he had passed away from stomach cancer. Another great show in the books. We appreciate everyone stopping by. A who's who. A bunch of stuff happened today. Wow. Thank you very much to John Fish. John Fitch, excuse me.

We wish him the very best, you know, with his health-related issues. And hopefully he can get back. on track. The same with Rashad Evans and how about that little nugget about the state of the Black Zillions. We appreciate his time very much. Best of luck to Chale Sun and check out Bellator this Saturday, Spike TV, Brennan Ward and Paul Daly, Halic Gracie against Asakato. Nice little card there from Bellator in Englewood. Best of luck to Chale and his Belator debut. Thank you very much to Alan Joban. Good luck getting that fight against RDA. Best of luck to Derek Brunson against Anderson Silva. Thank you very much to Megan Anderson and congratulations to her as well.

Thank you very much to Steve Amiochich and of course Mark Hunt and his lawyer, Christina Denning as well. Back next week, same time and place until they say Pesh, Shabadia. Support for this show comes from Odu. Running a business is hard enough. So why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? Introducing Odu. It's the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all-in-one fully integrated platform that makes.

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