MMA Fighting - The MMA Hour with Ariel Helwani - Episode 374

Episode Date: March 27, 2017

Ariel Helwani speaks to NewYorkRic (00:15:21) to recap the weekend in MMA, then to Marc Diakiese (00:27:55), Tonya Evinger (00:48:33), Marlon Moraes (01:07:04), Muhammed Lawal (01:26:57), Dillon Danis (01:51:47), Chael Sonnen (02:22:16) in studio, and Scott Coker (03:25:46) in studio. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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That means you could order in-store products at in-store prices while you're in sweatpants, in spin class, in stuffy work meeting, in anywhere but in-store. So download the app today and get $0 delivery fees on your first three orders. Instacart, groceries that over-deliver. Service fees exclusions in terms apply. It's the Mixed Martial Arts Hour with a mixed martial arts hour back in your life on this Monday, March 27th, 2017. Hello again, everyone. I'm Ariel Hawani back inside our New York City studio. Perfect day to talk a little MMA. Cold, rainy outside, sit back, relax.

Strap on your seatbelt. We've got two in-studio guests on the show today. This is very exciting. Love having the in-studio guests, and we've got some good ones. So this is going to be a fun day. And like I said, the perfect afternoon to just sit back and talk to all of you about some MMA because it is not very nice outside. No, no, no, no, it is not. By the way, a happy early birthday to my beautiful wife. She turns 21 tomorrow.

This is exciting. Finally, she hits that big number. So it is a exciting time for all of us in the Halwani household. It was a relatively quiet weekend. as far as mixed martial arts is concerned. But there's always something to talk about, always things going on. And to be honest, since we last spoke,

I'd say like three and a half major things have happened since we said goodbye last Monday. The first one, remember right at the buzzer, we almost got with like two minutes left last week on the show. Beltor announced that they were back in the pay-per-view business, first time since Scott Coker has taken over June 24th, Madison Square Garden, Chale Sunnan versus Vangelis Silva. That's what we knew at the time.

Since then, slowly but surely, the card is coming together. We also found out Monday night that Matt Mitrione will be fighting Fyodor Amelianenko. We hope. Of course, they were supposed to fight in February. Mitrione had the kidney stones. But that's the quote unquote co-main event. We found out about two title fights on the card. Lorenz Larkin, the new member of the Belator Walthewa

Division will be fighting the champion at 170 Douglas Lima. Also, Michael Chandler defending his 155 pound title against Brent Primus. Also, we found out that Aaron Pico, that Blue Chip prospect that everyone's high on, fights out of AKA, sort of this prodigy youngster, if you will, boxing, wrestling, MMA, all that stuff and more.

He will be making his debut, although we don't know against who just yet. Ryan Bader, Phil Davis have been campaigning to fight each other, but as of right now, they're not on the card. And as of right now, it doesn't look like they will be fighting each other on the card because Belator doesn't want to do last I was told, three title fights on this pay-per-view card. So it's going to be a five-fight main card on pay-per-view.

They're calling that, by the way, Belator NYC. And then Belator 180 is going to be the spike prelims, which they are trying to stack as much as possible. So today on the show, we'll be talking about that pay-per-view from a couple of different angles. And we'll also be talking a lot about Bel-Tor. This, in fact, my friends, is a somewhat notable show as far as Bel-Tor is concerned. This is the first time, I believe, in the history of this program, that we will have four Bel-Tor guests on the show.

And, you know, there's no real reason for that other than they're in the news these days. And it's a bit of a quiet time for the UFC, and they've been making headlines. And so I'm excited about this. I'll get to the lineup in a second. Also, this week, as far as, or this past week, I should say, as far as notable things that occurred, Connor McGregor had his rehearing with the Nevada Athletic Commission, and they significantly reduced his punishment. The most notable part of the whole thing was that he is now being fined.

$25,000 for that incident prior to UFC 202. Not only water bottles were thrown, but also monster energy cans. And it was a pretty serious matter. It was a pretty dangerous matter. And originally he was fined $150,000. Then it went down to $75,000. Then he had a meeting with them. And then it went down to $25,000.

I'm told Nate Diaz actually paid his fine in full. I believe it was 50,000, he is going to get a rebate. They're going to pay him back, and it's going to be a significant one, I'm told. But they haven't had the rehearing yet for him. That should be happening sooner rather than later. So the Nevada Athletic Commission saying, look, we went home, we thought about it. We recognized the punishment was just too stiff. Also, there's community service involved.

But the main thing was the price tag. And we had this rehearing, and it has nothing to do with the Floyd Connard Talks. It has everything to do with just. being fair. And I actually had a nice conversation with Bob Bennett of the Nevada Athletic Commission Saturday afternoon. He told me that Connor has yet to reapply for his boxing license. You'll recall, Connor applied for a boxing license in Nevada at the end of the year last year, 2016, when he also applied for one in California. He got the one in California, did not get the one in Nevada in large part because he had this outstanding issue with the Nevada Athletic Commission.

So he had to sort of cross this one off the checklist. That's been done. It happened last Wednesday. And now he can reapply. As of Saturday, he did not reapply for that boxing license. I expect him to do so in relatively short order. I also asked Bob Bennett if there were any significant talks as far as he was concerned about Floyd fighting Connor in September.

He said he has not been told anything of that sort just yet. Although he did say, and this is a direct quote from Bob Bennett, I truly believe that this is an approvable fight from what I've seen so far. And what he means by that is, and that's the end quote, what he means by that is he's looked at some of Connor sparring. He's looked at his striking. He talked about it with me for quite some time about why he thinks that this is an approvable fight, a fight that they would have no problem sanctioning. And, you know, there are still some things that he wants to see happen before the fight actually takes place.

He said that if Connor will be training in Las Vegas, and certainly Floyd does so, he will go watch Connor box to make sure that he is up to par. But he feels like it's sort of disingenuous to say, oh, Connor is O&O when, you know, he's had these MMA fights. He's primarily known as a striker. He's a bit of a bigger fighter than Floyd Mayweather. These are his reasons. And he also told me that, quote, it's great for unarmed combat, end quote, to put on this fight. So he was very, as they say, around these parts, Wall Street, he was very, he was very bullish on Floyd and Connor. So that I think is a very interesting, you know, they've talked about it a little bit, but I thought that was a very interesting update on this saga.

There was a little appearance by Floyd. I think it happened on either Friday or Saturday. Again, around that time frame where they seem to always pop up, but nothing major as far as a back and forth. between them. In fact, Floyd really didn't say anything in that little clip that popped up on Fighthype.com, but everything seems to be moving in the right direction. The biggest obstacle overcome last week was the rehearing and the reduction of Conner's fine by Nevada, and he got what he wanted, and he is on board with the new fine of $25,000. We also found out Wednesday evening that BJ Penn is back. So if you were hoping to not see BJ Penn fight,

again after his loss to Yeira Rodriguez. Well, that's not happening just yet. He will be fighting on June 25th. Interesting. A lot of people were asking me if I thought that the UFC would try to counter-program the Belator pay-per-view. Well, they're actually putting on an event we found out last week the night after the paperview.

So it looks like those days are off. You know, in the past around 10 years ago, Lorenzo Fretta was all about that. You know, the affliction group puts on a pay-per-view. Let's put a show together last minute on Spike and let's try to take these suckers down. It's a bit more of a friendly UFC, it seems, these days. Or maybe they just don't view Belator's competition. They're putting on a show the following night in Oklahoma City. And BJ Penn is on the card.

He's fighting Dennis Siever. So that's the original fight that they wanted to put together. It's at least as of now going to happen. Curious to hear New York Rick's thoughts on that. We'll talk to him in a second. And then, of course, on Saturday night, Invicta had another show. As always, fun card. entertaining card. The headlining act was a very fun one. Tanya Evinger able to defeat

Yana Kunitskaya in the second round via Rear Naked Choke. And this puts some closure to their feud, if you want to call it that. Kunitskaya winning the Invicta Bantamweight title and was championed for, I think, officially 13 days. She won it months ago. But then the Missouri Athletic Commission looked at the fight and decided that the referee, I believe Mike England is his name, messed up on that one and shouldn't have called off the fight, shouldn't have awarded it to Kunitskaya. And so they did the rematch. Avenger got her belt back in a bizarre situation. And she was able to rectify the situation on Saturday defeating Yanukunitskaya.

So now she's won 10 in a row. and really if you take a serious look at Tanya Evinger's record, it is baffling as to why she is not in the UFC. And I know she said some things about Sean Shelby, who is the matchmaker for the 135-pound women's division. But at this point, considering the miles that she has put in, considering the fact that she's an entertaining fighter

in and out of the cage, it is a head scratcher. I mean, at some point, look, we are often reminded that the UFC is run not like a league, but really like a sports team. If the general manager of the Dallas Cowboys doesn't like a certain player, good or not, he's not going to sign him. So there's no meritocracy involved.

Forget about title shots, just about entering the UFC. Now, they're going to sign people that they don't care for at times. But look, we saw it with Ben Ascran. We see it here to a degree with Tony Evanger. Sean Shelby doesn't do interviews. He's not allowed to speak on the record.

But no secret that there's not a great relationship there. At this point, And I feel like it would behoove them to get Tanya Evinjer on board. She just has a very entertaining personality. She's different, cut from a different cloth. And she's winning. She's won 10 in a row. And if you look at her record, it's a pretty impressive one.

I think she's 19 and 5. Her only losses are to, you know, the Crem de la Crem. Sarah McMahon, Lexus Davis, Gina Carrano. I'd like to see her get a shot. I will also say that her sticking around at Invicta gives them some sense of, I don't know, you know, it's always good to have a dominant champion. And it's always good to have someone who's familiar, stick around from event to event, you know, show up every three, four months, defend that title.

That's good for the brand. Right now, 115, you know, the title is vacant. Cyborg also somewhat notably vacated the title Friday night at 145. So now Megan Anderson is the champion there. It's good to have these names, but also we can't deny that Invicta is somewhat of a AAA farm system for these 115 pound and 135 pound. And hopefully we're assuming the 145 pound division. So they're kind of, I don't know, they play this dual role of, you know,

feeding talent to the UFC, but also trying to sustain their own organization. So it's good for them that Avenger is around. But I think people who have been watching Evanger for quite some time would like to see or get a shot in the UFC as well. So that was notable. Let me run down today's lineup. And we'll get some thoughts from Mr. New York Rick, who is also joining us. I'm very excited about today's show.

As I said last week, A lot of you were very upset that Mark J. Casey wasn't on the program after his win at UFC Fight Night London. Well, I have always tried to be a man of the people. You ask for him, now you're going to get him. He'll join us at 125, the bone crusher now 3 and O in the UFC. And he had a little bit of a back and forth with Mr. Paul Felder last week. So we'll hear from him. He is turning some heads in the UFC's lightweight division.

At 1.45, we will talk to the aforementioned Tony Avenger. never been on this show before. First time I spoke to her was back in 2008 in Stockton, California for that Elite XC show on CBS. Remember, Nick Diaz fought Thomas Denny, Shana Bazeler against Chris Cyborg, Robbie Lawler against Scott Smith, Nick Thompson was on the card. It was a very fun card to cover. She was there doing post-fight interviews for ElitexC.com or pro-elite.com, I think it was. She was definitely drunk at the time. And that was the first time I talked. I was the first time I I went back and looked at that interview and we have come a long way since. We've certainly grown up.

These things happen when nine years has passed. So I'm looking forward to talking to Tony Avenger at 145. At 205, we'll talk to Marlon Maris. It seems like every few days people ask me, what's up with Marlon? What's up with Marlon? So let's hear from the man himself, the now former WSOF bantamweight champion. When's he going to the UFC? It seems inevitable.

What's going on? When will he debut against two, et cetera, et cetera. 205. We'll talk to King Mo. Always love having Muhammad Lawal on. As I mentioned, Beltaire very much in the news these days. He's headlining their show on March 31st. That's this Friday in Chicago against Rampage Jackson. Interesting comments from Rampage Jackson to ESPN last week saying his biggest

regret in the sport was even getting into the sport to begin with. Talked about missing his family back home in Memphis. Kind of made me sad a little bit. Made me sad. And this appears to be Rampage's last fight. He told us on the show back in January. He has to go back to the UFC if he wants to continue fighting per the terms of that contract he signed when he tried to leave Belator. So a very interesting spot there for Belator. Anyhow, I'm looking forward to that fight. Dylan Danis will stop by one of the newest members of the Belator roster. Of course, the Jiu-Jitsu Wiz and good friend of one, Connor McGregor.

He'll stop by a 245. Talk to him about his debut, and he's in the news this morning, Neiman Gracie calling him out on Twitter. 305 will be joined by Chale Sunnin in Studio. How about that? Chale Sonnen in Studio. That's never happened before. I'm looking forward to that, seeing the American gangster,

and we have a lot to discuss. Coming off his loss to Titor Ortiz, the upcoming main event at MSG against Vandrali Silva. Always a pleasure to talk to Chelsunan. Never been done in studio. Can't wait for that. And then 405 will be joined by the Bell Tour CEO, Scott Coker. Scott Coker in studio as well.

Back-to-back in studio, guests, love talking to people in studio face-to-face, mono-e-mano, nose-to-nose. and that's going down at 405. Certainly a lot to talk to Scott about as well. Mr. New York, Rick, are you there? I'm here. Oh, there he is.

You were in Kansas City, Missouri, right? I was. Or Missouri, as they say. I was. Any tales from the road? Any good things happened? Yeah, it was a great event. Would you have said if it was a bad event, though?

Of course I would have. Come on. No, you wouldn't, though. But, yeah, the fan base in Kansas City. is responding and it was a really good show. I know you watched at least some of it. I did, yes. I always enjoy.

It's always fun to see a different product, you know, change pace. Also, the past cards are great. Where do you fall in line in this whole Tiny Evanger thing? Ten in a row, she's beaten everyone. I mean, is there anyone, you know the product better than anyone at this point? Is there like a number one contender at 135 that people are clamoring for? Not necessarily, but I also think. think on the merit of just the fact that Tanya's has been and, you know, this fight was not the one that

proved that she was likely good enough to be in the U.S.C. That's already been established. So if the question is whether she's ready could compete in the top 10 of those rankings, there's no doubt about it in my mind. She's a really, really good fighter. And this wasn't, you know, this was a good performance. She gets her revenge. I wouldn't say it was one of her best.

I mean, she was almost submitted in the first round. It was a bit of a sloppy affair. Even in the post-fight interview, she said she didn't like her performance. Yeah, she said she started slow. And, you know, sometimes that happens with fighter, sometimes that happens with her that she started slow. But ultimately she, you know, got the job done and got it done by submission in a fitting twist. Yeah.

But, yeah, this was not the performance that you go, oh, Tanya Avenger belongs in the U.C. because she already belonged. This was just another win to continue her streak. But Invicta's happy to have her. She's a great champion, entertaining, on and off the mic. So if she doesn't end up there,

and she's happy in Invicta, so it's a good relationship. She's got that stone cold thing going where she flips people off. She walks out with a t-shirt that has the middle finger on it, and she kind of appeals to a certain sector of the audience.

the the beer drinking redneck kind of crowd you know what i'm talking about you know the the people from the south um i mean look let's call it is i mean she's she's that kind of people like her because she is very sort of uh i don't know she's she's i don't know about every woman but she's she's uh she's not polished and that and that's a compliment you know she's not someone who's just going to give you canned answers tanya tanya's not going to bullshit you yeah she's not going to bullshit you and she is she's just sort of a person who shoots from the hip and all these kind of things you want to say but if you look at a record i mean her last win excuse me her last loss was to sarah mcmahon in 2011 and if you actually go up and down i mean there are some people

like cindy dandwa irane al dana these people have been signed to the ufc and they were in the midst of that winning streak she's had wins since beating those people so i'd like to just see at this point i mean she's been doing this long enough she's 35 years old she's been fighting since, I mean, when is it, 2006 or so? It would be nice for one of these people who's been, you know, bouncing around from the elite XC days, tough enough. I mean, she's been all over the place to finally get that shot. And this is one of those times where I wish Sean Shelby could do interviews and we could just ask him like, okay, what's going on here? Why don't you give her that shot? Why are you giving other people that shot and not her? But I do know that

Invicta is very happy to have her around. And so we'll see what happens next for her. I'm excited to talk to her. Now, what about this BJ Penn thing? That's the main thing I wanted to ask you. It was fascinating to me that the news was met with such indifference. I mean, it really wasn't that big of a deal. And to me, I mean, that's sad in one regard because, like, I mean, this is BJ Penn. He is who he is. He is still a legend hall of famer.

But do you feel like people are just kind of blocking it out at this point? Do they just not care? I mean, I'll say this. and maybe it's because of my vocal support of BJ Penn, people have been talking to me about it and asking me about it. So I don't think people are quite ignoring it, but I mean, I feel the same way I felt right after the last one. I can't watch it anymore.

I can't do it. Now, you said this after the Air Fire, right? Yeah. I'm not going to watch. I don't buy that. I don't buy that. Come June 25th that morning. Come June 25th, this may be a different.

story, but right now. You're the one who talked about, you know, the levels of accepting a BJ Pen fight. I'm still very early in those in that process. I'm still at the let's not get excited portion. That may change, but I'm hoping to keep the resolve. I just don't, even if he wins, you kind of know where the road ends, right? You and many others care deeply for BJ Penn. And if I told you that fighting these fights as, I don't know, hurtful as it may feel, for you and others to watch him fight. If by taking these fights, fighting these fights actually is safer for him, healthier for him than sitting around in retirement doing God knows what, you know, drinking, things like that, not taking care of his body, getting into scraps, not being productive, wouldn't you lean more towards the fight that you don't really want to

watch, you don't want to partake in, you don't really care for, you're indifferent towards, this is the lesser of two evils, is it not? Maybe. And I mean, I honestly think that's what we're dealing with here. That ride is going to come to an end at some point, and then we're going to, then he's going to have to face that at some point. There's going to be a time where he's not viable where people are not willing to watch. At this point, it seems like people are still willing to watch and promotions are willing to give him fights. There's going to be a point where that doesn't happen.

And so why, you know, it's just delaying the inevitable. I'd like to see him get released and maybe go to Belvoir. for two reasons, Belator is going to book him in a much more favorable light, just because their roster isn't as good. And they kind of get away with, you know, giving guys fights where Luke brought up a great point last week, like Siam Punk, the better home for him would have been Belator. They would have tried to give him a much more favorable matchup like they did with Herschel Walker back in the day.

And BJ would get that same kind of treatment. Also, Rich Chow is a very good friend of his. He's the matchmaker. He's not going to put him in these, you know, tough situations. I'm not going to say that Denise. I mean, if you can't beat Dennisiever at this point, that should be the end. But I wish that Dana White and company would have stuck to their word that he said in 2014, and I believe, I don't want to make a single dollar off of BJ Penn anymore.

Why did things change? Because he still wants to fight. Well, then let him go fight elsewhere. I mean, are you really breaking the bank at this point? You know what I mean? Yeah. By putting him on this card in Oklahoma City. I'd rather him just go fight in an organization that has lesser tax.

talent that can give him more favorable matchups and he can be in if he has to fight to to keep himself healthy then let's let's do it against you know lesser competition let's not do it against the best of the best yeah and it just kind of the whole thing i'm surprised a he's back so soon but i know you know it's just better for him for his psyche he's talked about this on this show i know it's better for him to just be an active fighter um certainly dennisiever is a more favorable matchup than Yeah, you're Rodriguez, of all people, but I still feel uncomfortable with him fighting in the UFC. I really do.

I also brought up last week, and we were just kind of digesting it right off the bat. The Bellator pay-per-view makes no sense to me. I said this. And I've had a chance to think about it a little more. And two things have come to mind after doing a little bit of digging. First of all, fighting at Madison Square Garden is very expensive. It is more expensive to rent out Madison Square Garden as a venue than any other arena in North America, maybe even in the world. So they have to try to make more money by putting on a show

there. If you're going to play there with the big boys, if we're going to try to go to that kind of a venue, you have to try to make extra money, extra income. Also, look at the lineup right now. Chale, Vanderle, Fador, Mitreone, Lorenz Larkin, Michael Chandler. What do these people have in common? These people have all signed pretty big contracts with Beltor in the last 360. 65 days or so. So Belter has to try to find, if they're going to try to go out there and sign big name free agents, re-sign big-name fighters, they have to put them on these kinds of cards. So I kind of get it a little more now.

I will admit, it came out of nowhere. I wasn't expecting it. At first, I was kind of like, wait, they're owned by Viacom. They're a spike property. Just sell more ads. But after kind of understanding the position that they're in, yeah. I mean, I don't know how much they're going to sell. I think still getting $100,000 is a tough thing to do.

do, to be honest. I mean, it's very, very rare. W.C. did it for W.C. 48. I think the first affliction show did it. These numbers are kind of hard to really know for sure what they are because no one makes them public, but that's what we're told. Other than that, it's never happened before. And Fador in particular has never been a big pay-per-view draw. Yes, he was fighting in the middle of the night for Pride, had a couple of shows for affliction as well. But historically, he's never been that big pay-per-view draw. And so, it's a tough thing. You're paying a lot of money to rent this venue and to,

you know, take in everything that comes with putting on a show at MSG. And this isn't the MSG theater, by the way. This is MSG, MSG, home of the 2018 NBA champion New York Knickerbockers. I mean, this is where the big boys play. And if you want to sign these big names, if you want to up the budget,

you have to get creative in terms of getting some of that money back. I do think that there's a bit of a, I don't know if it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. I don't know what you want to call it. But there are people who are kind of openly rooting, including in the media, openly rooting for this thing to succeed and kind of looking at it with rose-color goggles

in the sense that, I mean, if you take this card and you call it UFC 213, people are saying, well, wait a second, Laurenz Larkin on a main card, you know, Chale, Van der Leyen, I mean, it's looked at it a bit of a different way. And I get it. There's an appetite for something different.

People want a bit of change. I understand. But I'm trying to look at the car. card itself. And it's going to be interesting to see how much they're charging for it. They haven't come out and said it. I've heard some numbers. I've heard it's going to be in the ballpark of $49.99, but they haven't come out and confirm that just yet. It's going to be interesting to see how much they're going to charge for this thing and what the undercard is going to look like as well. James Galaher better be on that undercard. They've got to tap into

that Irish market here. So it's an interesting time. They're getting into that pay-per-view business. I think that this would dictate if they get back into it relatively soon. If it's a success, you're going to see more of these big names, these free agent signings, land on paper view as opposed to spike. This is how they make back some of that money. That, of course, is taking place June 24th here in New York City. Okay, in a matter of moments, we're going to be joined by Mark J. Casey. He is coming off that fantastic win over Tameu Pakulin at UFC Fight Night London nine days ago and it was one of those performances where you watch the finish. You watch the sequence of events leading up to the finish and it's like I still can't

really wrap my head around what exactly you did in particular with that kick. And after the fight, everyone was hitting me up saying, you have to have mark on, you have to have mark on. The show was full and I apologize. But I will admit, I was bombarded and I felt very bad about it. So here I am rectifying my sins, making up for it. Nine days later, we're talking to the bone crusher. Mark Jacasey, he joins us right now via the magic of Skype. No? I think I heard him.

Hello. I'm here. Hey, Mark. Can you see me? You're so quick. Oh, there he is. Mark, how are you? I'm good at you? Where are you right now? Just at home. Oh, okay. I couldn't tell it. It looked like you had, like you were in like some sort of dressing room with the shirts on that, on that bar and back of you. I know, this is a quiet spirit. I can, you know, my kids are quite loud, so it's the quiet spirit. I understand. I appreciate you doing it later on in the evening in the UK.

So I don't know if you saw this, but a lot of people are hitting me up saying that you, you had to be on the show last week. And someone sent me a screen grab of a Reddit forum and they said it was you. And you wrote that this podcast was lacking the bone crusher. Was that, in fact, you that went on there? which one? Oh, you went on a few? No, no, it's not me.

I don't really do stuff like that. Okay. I was like, wow, that's kind of ballsy, but I appreciate it. People really, they've taken, go ahead. Best fans are they're doing it, so I think you should apologize to them. Oh, no, okay, fair enough.

But they are, they're definitely, you know, behind you, and they've taken a liking to you, and it's happened in a relatively short amount of time. You made your debut, of course, back in October. Did you think that you would pick up this amount of steam in such a short amount of time? Or are you not surprised, did you think that you would be further along, you know, five months later? I think just the beginning. I think obviously I'm still progressing.

This is just a bit of seeing. I mean, I've moved to an American talk team now, so I'm getting a better feeling of the guys that I'll be fighting. So just the beginning, I'm willing to push a bit more. So we'll see. So you're training out of the Coconut Creek gym for American Top Team? Yeah. Yeah. Was this your first training camp with them? Pardon?

Was this your first training camp with them? Yeah, that was my first year. I did nine weeks there. And, you know, I go back here and obviously a week before the fight to get used to the timing. And that was it. But I think that's the thing I'll be doing going there often for my camps. So why did you decide to make that switch? I just felt like my fight with Frankie Perez, it weren't the type of fight that I usually give

because I'm excited. I know what I can give, and I felt like I wasn't giving enough. And just the way I were training as well. I just felt like I should have a lot of spying partners that I needed to get me where I needed to be. And so I thought, you know, all the guys that have been successful,

like Brad Pickett, Jim, I know a lot of other guys they seem to travel, go out and get something out there. And I thought, you know, use that example, give it a shot and it worked out for me. So I thought, you know, it's best for me to get out of there and get what I need to do. And why specifically ATT?

Why did you choose them? I did a bit of research. Okay. I did a look to a few gyms to go to, I looked at Rufus, I think sports or something. Yep. I looked at Alpha male But I seen

Personally I just think 80s were the best one Because they go They got few champions out there And I looked at a amount light waste that they have So I thought it just made sense for me to be out there What was it like being away from your family for nine weeks Well I want to be the best

And that's what My sacrifice is what I've got to do So yeah It was tough But I'm getting used to it I know My missus knows what I've got to do and that is to go out there and get what I need to get.

So it's part of the job. Yeah. And so like I said, that was your third fight and your 3-0, great finish in the first, great finish in the third. You had the kind of grinder fight against Frankie Perez. But in this fight against Tamu Paklan, I saw, I think you did an interview with Metro out there in the UK,

that kick, which I don't really know what would you call that kick that led to the finish? What would be the technical name for that? Is there even a technical name for that? If I'm honest with you I don't know a kick I can get my coach involved I ring him

I tell you I learned that kick Yeah Like I saturday before I got I go back to UK I got in I asked him

Obviously I do this kick But I do a different way And it shows me That's the best way to do it To sit up with the push kick And that's what I did So I learned it for about a week That's what I did it

A week before you did it You saw Where did you see it? I didn't see it But you know I seem to do it all the time like kicks like I just I get it wrong

so this time we're more of been confident you know been practicing this waffle you know give it a go but it was a week before it was unbelievable I mean every time I watch it it's like a video game kick

the way you do that the athleticism involved is just outstanding and then of course you finished him you know with your hands it felt to me like okay after this you've had three fights in the UFC you want a bit of a push now

like you said I saw a quote from you I don't want to be on the undercard anymore I want to be on the prelims. I'm a main card fighter. Let's go. We've done three now. Let's move this along. Is that accurate?

Like, are you a bit anxious now to kind of get a bigger challenge? No, I just feel like my name has not been respected yet. You know, I feel like I'm one of the best guys. So I want to be pushing to prove a point that I am going to be, you know, running through these guys. Because I've been moving to ATT, gave me that sort of understanding just where I am. So I know where I stand. So I want to prove it. And can me to prove it.

got to fight these guys. So I just want to give in that chance, you know, to start running through these guys. Who do you think is not respecting you? Is it the matchmakers? Is it the fans? Is it the fellow fighters? The fellow fighters just in general.

I think they should know who I am. And they're starting to know that, you know, that was my statement. I need to show him how I fight. And that was just the better of it. So, you know, the next guy, I hope he's ranks because I want to, you know, put a show again, you know,

make it look easy and keep running through him. Because I believe soon, soon enough, I'll be one close to that title. contender, so, you know, I'm ready. By the way, a part of your package is your very recognizable hair, but you're selling us short here. Can we see the hair? What's going on? Or are you cutting it off on purpose?

You don't see it? No, we can't see it. There it is. All right, all right. Wow, red. How do you decide what color to go with? It was just, I had obviously blown before. Yeah. I had red shorts, and it weren't going together. I like to match colors.

So, you know what? I'm going to change to red and then it goes together. So it made sense. Was that your first time fighting with red hair? Yeah, that's my first time, yeah. Are we going to stick with that? I got a pretty good feedback for me, though. Yeah.

Pardon? Are you going to stick with it? Yeah, I'm going to stick with it. Yeah, it looks the part of it now, so I'm going to stick with it. Plus, I had a bet with Danardi. He said, if I got a knockout within 60 seconds, I take it. I said, fair enough. So we shake hands and said, I'll get a knockout.

And I did. Wow. That's amazing. Oh, with Dan Hardy. I beat him to it. How much? Yeah, I beat him to it. How much was on the line?

How much? The hair. The head. The hair was in the line. So I told him I'll beat his record and I did. So now I'm in charge of it. Almost as impressive as the knockout itself was the post-flight celebration with the breakdancing. That was something else.

Yeah. Yeah. I keep hearing guys, I think, I'm a break dancer. I've never, I've never, I've never, I've never, I've never know breakdance. I used to do a bit of free running me and my brother when I were young running up through walls and stuff. But I've never really done anything like breakdancing or anything. It's just the stuff that I just do. You know, at the moment, I just do, I kind of do splits when I'm normal.

I just do it now and then. But, you know, I don't no break dancing. That's insane. You never done, so you've never even like actually taking a class or even tried to say, okay, today I'm going to. No, I've never. What? In my entire, I've never taken a break dancing class. It's just the things that I see and then give it a go.

And that's just a spur of the moment celebration. Like you didn't plan on doing that in the middle of the cage. No, I didn't plan on doing it just happens. Damn. My celebration was going to send off there to Brad Pickett because he was retiring. But for some reason, that adrenaline, I just do just crazy stuff. What did you want to do for Brad? Dude, his little dance.

Oh, okay. I'll do that for him. But, you know, I forgot about it. And then I went crazy. Yeah, I know. that was super impressive. I feel like if you, you know, stood on the street somewhere in London, I don't know, a very busy intersection. I feel like you can make a lot of money in one afternoon just doing that stuff.

Putting on one of those shows. Nah. You're doing fine. Well, it's good job down doing in a cage. Yeah, that's right. That's right. And you felt like, based on what I read, you didn't feel like Tamu Paklin was on your level, right? Like you felt like you would be disappointing yourself if you let this fight go, you know, a little longer than a couple minutes, right?

Yeah, different. The main reason, like, I never underestimate my opponents. I respect everybody that I fight with. So, like, through camp, I'm worried I'm training hard, you know, knowing what I'm going to fight. But the guys that were spying with, I just felt like team were on that level and I'm doing pretty well. So I just thought, team with no way is on that level, these guys, I'm fine. So there's no way he's going to beat me. I need to make a statement, like, to prove a point saying, listen, these guys are no on my level.

And that's why I have to do. And then, pretty quick. on, I think, Tuesday afternoon you and Paul Felder started to go back and forth on Twitter. What's the root of this? Where did this all start?

Fucking. It's just some little Irish wannabe because I don't even know where he is. He's just talking crap. The guy, I for his team, man, they seem better or hated or something.

I be his teammate, Frankie. Now he's coming forward. You know, like I said, I don't mind how far anybody, but he's one of these guys. His experience, he's a veteran, you know. If I'm not beat him,

I went to look good. It's having a... When I come... My comfort in America, I went to do that so I can smash his face in front of his own people. Huh. That's my plan. Did he approach you first, or did you talk to him?

He approached me straight after my fight. He approached me saying he wanted to fight me. Okay. But now, my plan, you know, because I'm going to get ready and dragging it through America in Vegas or something, and smashing from his own people. Huh. You know, that would make sense.

Okay. Have there been any talks of this now since, you know, it happened around six or so days ago and it seemed to pick up some steam? Yeah, well, straight away, she started calling me out. I wasn't straight to my manager. I told him that just the fight I won,

but obviously, I think UFC won it, not in it, but we're one in America. And I think it makes sense, you know, so we'll see. I was going to ask you about that because it seems like after a few fights with the European fighters, they'll bring them over to Vegas, and they've got the big Vegas weekend coming up, you know, the three fights in a row in July.

It seems like that's the perfect platform for you to take that next step. Do you agree? Yeah, I agree with that, yeah. I think it would be a great matchup for me to get out there. And, you know, look good in front of his own town. Look good, beat him out badly and, you know, and I'll come back nicely. Does he impress you in any facet of the game?

You don't impress me. His style is standard, it's standard, you know, Thai style. Where arms up, you hit back, it's try to be like toughness. I move around. I know what to win. If it means me taking you down for three rounds, I will. But I know how to win. simple as that.

And I can't see him beat him in anywhere. Off the top of my head, I don't think he's a top 10 ranked fighter right now in the lightweight division, right? No, I don't even know where he is, to be if I'm honest, I've not looked. I don't know where he is.

That's the problem. He's trying to call me out. Like I said, he's trying to get a bit of hype, but, you know, my hype, I earned it. I had to beat people up to gain. I didn't just get here.

And I think he's trying to steal it. But I don't mind giving a beating. No problem. So I'm just waiting for it. When it's ready, I'll be there. But a few minutes ago, you said that you wanted to fight a ranked guy. Why even entertain this? Do you feel like this is an appropriate step after the three fights that you've had thus far?

If I'm honestly, I don't know where he's ranked. Is he ranked? That's fine. He's ranked or something, whatever. I don't know. I will find out. But even so, like, let's say he's ranked 14 or something. Is this, after beating Paclin, was this the kind of step?

Or did you, were you thinking, okay, maybe I'll get a top six or top seven guy, you know, really get that push? If I'm honest, I just think right now People want to fight me So they should be calling me out I don't call it anybody I've got my own hype, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah I'm one of the best

So they should be calling the best star I should be calling them So we'll see But I'm not calling anybody out They should be calling me Because, you know, I'm the name now They want to fight me Come and call me out

And if you think you're a good fight We'll fight And by the way, according to the UFC Go ahead I think Paul Philo will be the great fact Because he likes to start up and his style is just average. They don't do much, you know what I mean?

So I'll like that fight to show him off from his own people. According to the UFC rankings, he is not currently ranked in their top 15. He's not even ranked. So if he's watching, he better watch now. He's not being ranked. You know what I mean? It's not good to me. So it's even, for me, it's stupid of me responding to him.

So, you know what I mean? I thought he was ranked, but he's not. You took the bait. You took the bait. He wanted you to respond. It's all right. It's all right. I don't mind giving beating.

It's fine. Have you noticed, you know, since coming back, because your second fight was in New York, Albany, New York, and then you came back in Fond, London. Did you notice a difference in the way the fans reacted towards you? Do you feel like more people are recognizing you now

getting behind you over there in England? Yeah, I do feel like a lot of people now. I can't go anywhere now. A lot of people, no way. Especially with this, I think I need to shave it off. Because that's what we know. It's right there, right there. I'm trying to shave it off for a bit.

So you'll shave it off and then regrow it? Regrow it, yeah. Then I'm free, huh, for a little bit. In New York, it would different because I'll find a guy from the hometown Frankie. So I got booed in there, but I didn't mind, you know. As long as I got the job done, that's what matters the most. Yeah. You know, hometown, crowded in the UK, people support me a lot,

and I'm starting to see it now. So that's just pushing me to push a bit more. harder than I have been. So the move that I did move to American Top Team just made sense. And I'm just happy at the moment. How did your now former team react to you leaving? Well, you know what happens. When you leave the team, no one is really happy.

But, you know, I'm starting to see this. It's about me. I'm loyal. If the team's right for me that I see things there, I'll stay there. If it's not, you know, I'm going to go somewhere else to where I can get better. So that's what I did, you know, move up there. because the community is about me. Sure.

That's fine and it's nobody else. And that's what I'm doing. I'll get people hating on me because of it, but, you know, I have to do what I have to do. So you felt a bit of a brushback from members of the team or other people in the English MMA community? No, I just felt like the level that I started, I was sparring or I was training with, it weren't that level no more.

For me to evolve, I needed people a little bit better than me, you know, certain areas to be. become better fighters and that's what I did. And there's no question about it. Just go to America and that's what I did. I saw Michael Bisping give you props afterwards. What's that like for you? I mean, is this a guy that you kind of looked up to when you were coming

up? Yeah, I've always watched Michael Bispin. It was great to be someone like champion like Bispin. Yeah. And you know, to say how good I'm doing, you know. Yeah. It makes me want to push. Like I listen to these hired people call me, oh, you're this, you're this and that. But to me it's more of a, like,

Now the fight is going out of my head now. Now I'm thinking, what do we need to do next to impress people? What kind of crazy move? You know, that's what I'm thinking now. That's done. Yeah. So it was great to get Miss Bisping telling me that. Yeah, it reminds, like, all the greats, you have that one moment where you revel in the victory, but then you're immediately turning towards the next thing.

Like, how do I top this, right? Like, you don't even give yourself enough time to actually appreciate what you did in there. You're just thinking about how you beat that one and keep going and keep going, keep going, right? Yeah, if I'm honest, this fight, it felt different than any other fights. It felt so real like, oh, it's done. You know what I mean? I feel like I could have done a little bit more in there. What?

That's what I stand my spinning kick. My spinning kicks, I felt I could have done a little bit more. But, you know, I finished it early. But, you know, that's what I'm saying. I think Feld will be a great match up for that because I think it takes a shot. But we'll see once it takes my right hand if we will survive. We'll still be there standing. Yeah, how many, officially, let's see, how many seconds was that?

That was 30 seconds. So are you trying to top that against Felder? That's a little much. I think I'll have to beat him up a little bit. You really don't like this guy. You don't like him, eh? Listen, I think UFC now is different. You have seen, you know, it's a job.

You don't perform. You kick out. You don't. To me, now I take that personal. So if I'm finding somebody trying to take that from me, I'm going to hurt them. And that's what I'm doing. So my mentality is completely different now. And you didn't have that mentality before?

I had it before, but more of a, you know, shake-hand be nice to people who fight in a sport. But now it's listening, you know, you try to take what I'm working for. There's no way I'm going to let you have that. So before the fight, I'm making sure I know that you know that. That is a scary thought. How far away do you think you are, let's say everything, you get the Felder fight, it all goes well, from being in that discussion with the top dogs at 155? in your mind, how far away are you?

If I feel for me, I'm number one. You're already there. You're already there? Yeah, right top. Right at the top. I'm telling you, right at the top. And listen to them, telling you today, I'm right at the top. Believe that.

We'll remember this. So we're talking like Tony Ferguson, Chabee, Betty Alvarez, these guys, you're above those guys in your mind at this point. I'm telling you, I'm ready. I'm right at top. And anybody wants to fight me, I'll be there. Wow.

I've traveled a lot. I know people have spied with. I know I'm not inspiring is completely different, but I just know where I stand with these guys, you know. So I'm saying I'm right at the top and believe that. All right. Well, I like it. I like the confidence.

And I'm not going to argue with you because your work speaks for itself at this point. It is unbelievable. It truly is impressive. So do you expect that we're going to find out soon that you're going to fight in July? Do you think this is going to happen you and Paul Felder? Well, I definitely want in July. We'll see. We'll see because I'm going to talk with them now.

Okay. But, as I say, it's last fire my contract as well. Oh. So we'll see. Oh, are you going to try to play it out, not resigned before? No, no, you know, I'm just fine. We'll see, you know. I believe I've got one of the biggest name here in UK right now.

Yeah. Play that bad boy out. Get paid, my friend. Get paid. You deserve it. I've got a name. You do. My name speaks for itself now in UK, so we'll see.

Your name, your hair, your kicks. your punches, they all speak for themselves. So you got something going on. You said it. I said, so I'm going to get paid. From my lips to your bank account. I wish you the best, Mark. It's been fun watching you in the UFC thus far. And I remember being in London for Anderson Bisping and a guy of the UK MMA scene coming up to me and said, this is the guy. This is the guy who's going to be the next champion out of the UK coming up to me in the hotel. Mark J. Casey, remember his name. Thus far, he has proven to be correct. So all the best to you. Looking forward. to seeing you fight again. Hopefully it's in Las Vegas

that weekend. And again, congratulations on the impressive victory last weekend. Thank you very much. Thank you. We'll talk to you soon. There he is. The bone crusher. Mark DeCasey, no shortage of confidence running through that man, and he certainly has been backing it up. It's been a lot of fun to watch. Okay, let's move

along. We talked earlier about Tanya Evinger winning her 10th straight fight. She avenges that, I'm not going to call it a loss, but that bizarre fight and bizarre sequence of events against Yanakunitskaya, just a few months ago. She is now the reigning defending once again Invicta Bantamway Champion. She's joining us on the phone, I believe, at the airport right now, so we appreciate her stopping by. Tanya, are you there?

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Thanks for, are you at the airport, right? Yeah, yeah, about ready to board here coming pretty soon. Okay, so thank you again for squeezing us in. Can you describe, I mean, this was a weird scene, like I said, because you lost the belt for 13 days and then you kind of got a back, but no champion wants to get their belt back in that regard. Does it feel like a weight has been lifted off your shoulders here? Yeah, you know, I definitely was waiting for this fight. You know, I think that they're just a little unfinished business, and, you know, it took a long enough.

We wanted to get on the last car, but, you know, I know Invicta wasn't prepared to put us on there. They didn't plan on an outcome like that. So, you know, I'm just happy to be back in action so soon and be able to take care of this for it got too much. There's too much talk going on. What kind of talk was bothering you? None of them bothered me.

I just got tired of her fans and her coaches and in her team, just all the stuff they were saying. So, you know, it's just always good to shut some people up, you know. Did they actually physically send you the bell back? How did you get it back? Well, you know, obviously we have our own belt. It's not like, you know, when I lose my belt, my belt's going to go to somewhere else.

I'm just going to go home and sit on my shelf until it, you know, memories. But, you know, so she actually got another belt, and I think that I don't, I think maybe she has to return that one or something because she wasn't actually champions. Wow. You know, I obviously don't want another belt running around

and Victor World title running around, you know, in somebody's hands that I don't think that I'm truly won it. So, you know, I would hope that everybody would feel the same on that, but, you know, it is what it is. I know you said afterwards in the cage with Laura Sanko that you can hold your breath longer than she can, hold on to a guillotine. But honestly, now, I mean, how tight was that? It looked pretty tight. I mean, it looked like this thing was going to come to an end in like 30 seconds.

Were you ever considering tapping? No, no. She wasn't choking me enough to tap. She didn't have, I think, her submission terms throughout the whole fight were, you know, mediocre best. I knew she just didn't have the actual right technique to finish any of them. So, you know, it was just one of the things where I have to scramble until we get out of that weird scissor position. And, you know, and I think neither one of us wanted to give up the position, so nobody was willing to let go, and it was awkward for a while. Yeah, but it was entertaining as well.

I mean, it was kind of like this chess match going on. Yeah, yeah. You didn't seem very happy, though, with your performance. Have you changed your tune 48 hours later or so? Well, I think I say this every time I fight, that I don't feel like I performed as well as I should. But, you know, I'm talking about, I go in the gym day and day out and perform at a certain level,

and then when the fight comes around, obviously there's a ton of things that come into play, you know, the weight cut, the nerves, everything, it comes into play, you know, and maybe ate something bad or something. But, you know, it's just one of them things where I see myself performing at a much better pace and a much better level

and then not feeling like I got to execute everything I want to do, you know? So I think I kind of say this every time I fight, but, you know, just going back and watching it every time and then, like, how it went down on my head and how it actually went down, are two different things. Okay, so you mentioned the nerves and you also mentioned, you know, eating things. I remember a few fights ago you actually threw up in the cage, and you did say after this

fight that you ate some bad Mexican food and that made you feel a little sick. Do you think it was the food, or are you just the kind of fighter that, because even afterwards, I think Laura was saying, or someone was saying to you, don't throw up again. So is that like a common thing for you? I've actually never thrown up in the cage. I've tried a little bit. Okay. and who's adrenaline.

We're talking about fighting, you know, 15, 25 minutes, and who's adrenaline doesn't make them sick. So I think my adrenaline makes me sick every time. But this time, yeah, man, I just definitely didn't eat the right thing. I think that that was just sitting different. But other than that, same, same as always. So in the cage, you're actually thinking to yourself, right? You're thinking like, oh, man, something's not sitting well with me right now,

and that threw you off a bit? Yeah, no, I just felt like I was a little more sluggish than I should have been. And, you know, like you said, going back here and looking at the tape days later, obviously I think I performed better than I thought I did in my head. You know, I'm like my worst critic, you know, so as myself. So other than that, I mean, I thought it was good. I would have liked to hit her a lot more. But when you got some kind of scrabble going on like that,

it's hard to get more than one or two good ones in before, you know, to perform to a different position. So I have a lot of respect for you, Tanya, for what you've done thus far in your career. and also for what you've said, every time that you're asked about the UFC, I mean, you seem to be very proud of being the Invicta champion, and you're not one of these people who says,

yeah, this is great, but, you know, I really want to go on to the UFC. Now that you've won 10 in a row, now that you've defended the title a few times, you're 35, I mean,

you can't fight forever. There's no part of you that just wants to see what it's like over there. I mean, I've been wanting to fight the top talent since I started. It just, it's never happened.

So, I mean, for me, obviously, I think, you know, I want to go as high as I possibly can. I think that every fighter does, but at the end of the day, I can't, like, make anything happen. I just can keep winning fights, and, you know, they'll bring me over when they feel like I'm ready or if they feel like I'm a, you know,

sellable enough fight for them or a good enough fighter. I don't know what necessarily the circumstances have to be, but right now I can just do nothing but win fights and go from there. I would imagine you're ready because you've been people who have later been sons. to the UFC if MMA math means anything. Do you feel like politics

or relationships are keeping you out of the promotion? Yeah, I don't know what it is. I don't know what it is. It just seems like a prerequisite you lose to me and then you get signed. So maybe everybody just wants to fight me for that. When you're lose, they're going USC.

You have said, you know, a few things I think in jest about Sean Shelby, who's the matchmaker. Do you regret saying any of these things? I mean, I never said anything that wasn't true, just vice versa for him. You know, we had a conversation, and he said certain things about the way my performance, he thought my fighting style was, and I didn't agree. But other than that, I mean, what sort of really take back?

I mean, there was a real occasion that happened. So, you know, I'm not saying it helped or didn't help my career, but it obviously let a fire under my ass because I've done nothing but wins since, you know. For those that don't know, could you tell us what you're talking about? I think it's just old news back in the day we're trying to get signed or whatever I've had conversation with them where I you know obviously I reached out to them to try to get signed and didn't understand why and you know some statements were saying that I was a what was it uh shoot I can't hardly remember but I didn't maybe I didn't finish fights or I didn't

wasn't a great performance or something so um you know that definitely let a fire into my ass so I've been doing nothing but try to win every single fight and come out and put girls away. So, you know, I definitely stepped up my game to prove something that, you know, somebody's opinion wrong. But other than that, I mean, that's all I can do is just keep on winning. Do you take pride in the fact that a lot of the women that you fought back in the day when WMMA wasn't a cool thing at all? I mean, it wasn't on Showtime, but wasn't in the UFC. A lot of them are retired at this point. And not only are you still fighting, you're thriving, you're a champion.

and I think back then maybe people didn't expect that from you. They didn't think that you would be one of these people who would stick around so long and be a champion in your mid-30s. Is that something that you take pride in? Yeah, you know, I think I just go until people start beating me up. I mean, well, it's pointing quitting when you're winning. So, you know, I must still be on top of my game, and I feel better than ever. And obviously my training's great, and my gyms are great.

So, you know, I'm going to go until somebody got my number. How did you turn things around, though? Was it just simply like finding your groove and training the right team, the right coaches? Because, you know, even just a few years ago, I don't know if a lot of people expected this kind of run out of you. You know, I think this is what it is. I think I'm a different kind of fighter, and I think that it took me time to figure out what works for me. And like any sport, you come in and there's a right way to do things in a wrong way. And people's eyes, well, the sport was decently new, you know?

I mean, the sport's evolving too. So I think I just kind of had to find my own way and figure out the mistakes I was making. and obviously my losses have shown that and figure out how to make my style work for me and that's where I think I am. I think I'm really smart about the way I fight and I know my body's going to perform a certain way and my reactions are going to be a certain way

and so I have to learn to get my style in with that and make it work. Do you have a sense of loyalty towards Invicta and Shannon Knapp where they kind of took this chance on you, you were kind of bouncing around different organizations and they gave you this consistent job, this platform, this opportunity to be a champion, and you don't necessarily want to leave them

and leave them with a vacated title. Like, do you sort of feel, is that something that you struggle with when considering what you would do if presented with an offer from the UFC? No, I think we're all on the same page there. You know, I think that, and one eye, you know,

you can see that they're having a hard time finding me opponents, and, you know, I'm becoming a costly part of a fight when it comes to put me on cards. And aside from that, you know, I don't think, I definitely think that they gave me, you know, somewhere to grow in an opportunity, just at that, just like you said, an opportunity. And I think that it didn't matter necessarily. It was going to eventually happen.

I think that we just didn't have that same opportunities. We don't have the promotions. We didn't have anything. These girls today just get to jump right in and they got invicted and they got FEC and they got all these, they can be on any top card on TV, you know what I mean? But they didn't have these struggles. Trying to find these cards, you know, we didn't have no order to fight. you know, we were struggling. So before Invicta came around, I mean,

that's hundreds of the jobs that Vickda gave everybody opportunities, so not just me, you know, so I'm just happy to be a part of the promotion, that's for sure. And definitely, the holder of Bill is definitely, you know, worth talking about. Does it bother you when it seems like Belvoir in the UFC push women who are not as experience as you, but maybe have a certain look that they think

will appease or appeal to the crowd a little more that they try to push pretty girls, younger girls, things like that. Does that bother you? I mean, it's always bothered me. I mean, I work hard for whatever I got, and same thing in wrestling, and now in this sport, and I just think that, you know, the recognition comes from people who got the power, I guess,

so they can make anybody star, but these kids aren't, like, they're high trains, man. They don't know how to fight, like they can sell a pay-per-view, you know, so I don't know. It sucks, but nothing I can do. I can't control it. Is it hard for you to watch that? Well, yeah.

I mean, I think that everybody thinks I got a chip on my shoulder. I get to watch all these people that I beat run around me and get better pay days and get on bigger cars and do all these things that I haven't got to do. So I think that, you know, it sucks. Definitely putting a different cell tag on them than you are me. I think that at the end of the day, don't we just want to see good fights.

Do you avoid watching it? Like, are you the kind of person that tunes in regularly to other promotions and when those fights are on, does it bother you so much that you would not watch it? No, I really don't watch them and I may that often anyway, except for, you know, if the girls are fighting, I'll watch a little bit of that. But for the most part, I don't really watch it. I compete in it. I get enough every day at the gym. Yeah.

I can understand that. By the way, when are we going to see you go back to doing interviews? I remember the first time I met you was in Stockton, you were doing the post-fight interviews for a pro-elite. Do you remember that? Yeah, man, I had a good time. I thought I put some pretty good interviews. You know what I mean? But opportunity, man.

These promotions are going to give me an opportunity to do something like that. Shoot. Those were great. I think you had a few beforehand just to kind of loosen up a little bit, right? And it helped. Yeah, they gave me more than a few. Oh. Like give this girl whatever, whatever she wants.

Who's that pro-elite? Yeah. Wow. Yeah. They were actually helping you. Yeah, yeah. I think they embrace their personalities. Yeah, it would be great to see you do that.

Maybe four and VICT on this. I'm not trying to take Laura's job away, but I thought you were, I mean, it made for fun interviews. You didn't want those cookie cutter interviews. Yeah, yeah, definitely. It would be nice to do that again. Here I am trying to get you some work opportunities. Laura probably puts in a little more work to figure out what's going on in everybody's career than I do. That's fair.

I think it's like catch up there. But you're not afraid to ask certain questions and maybe that makes for a little more of a fun interview. Yeah, definitely. I agree. I agree. When do you want to return to action? Up a little. Not interviews, but fighting action.

Oh, as soon as possible. I hate this twice a year's stuff. I want to fight every couple months. Do you have a sort of end day when you want to stop fighting? Are you going to go as long as you can? Yeah, yeah, until, I guess until either somebody starts beating me up or this weight check gets to be too much because I hate cutting weight. Oh, really?

Well, 145 is sort of the weight class de jour. Would you rather fight at 140? if you could? No, definitely. I think that 135's where I'm at. I just like to eat and get fat, so... Sure. You can't change that.

What's the favorite post-fight meal that you like to have? I don't know. I'm a sandwich person, so I like cold sandwiches. That's your exciting meal that you get fat on? Cold sandwiches? Not even warm? Not even pinini?

Yes, it's super yummy. Super yummy. No, no, I'm not a pinni person, really. Just a cold sandwich? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's one of my stuff. Yeah. Okay.

Yesterday, did your brother compete in a wrestling tournament? No, my nephew. Your nephew? How do he do? Yeah, yeah. He got second estate. Wow. He did good.

How old is he? He's amazing. He's 14. Wow. Okay. And when you go to these tournaments, do people recognize you? No, no, no. I got this weird group of fans that follows me all over where I fight.

You like that, right? Yeah, yeah. I like my fans. They're definitely unique. a good group. Everybody's down there. It's my humor. Yeah. By the way, why does your t-shirt have a picture of you flipping, you know, people off? I don't know where that came from. It's just a picture? Is that a- No, no, no. You know I've been doing that for years.

Yeah, but like, is there a message there? Or is it just like your thing? No. I think it's just my thing. Okay. All right. Fair enough. I get away from it every once in a while, but, you know, I think it's just my thing. And finally, do you see anyone we were talking about this earlier? you see anyone on 135 in Invicta that is kind of on your radar right now? Oh, that would be a fun fight. Oh, this is someone that I'd like to fight.

No, I've never been that one to call out anybody or give a crap really who I fight. I just, I'll fight anybody they'll put in front of me and anybody they, you know, feel like wants to fight me. I definitely respect them enough to fight them, so let's do it. If I made you a bet that this time next year, you will have had at least two UFC fights, would you take that bet? Oh, I'm, man, I don't know. I think every year I go in this thinking it's time.

They're going to, you know, they're going to give me this opportunity. I've won too many fights. It's time. It's time. And then you get disappointed. So I kind of step away from thinking about all that and not even worry about it anymore. Well, I think it's time. It does.

If it doesn't happen. Let's make it happen. It would be a crime. There you go. There's the first time I see you actually acknowledge. It's about time. Let's go. Let's get a little vocal about this.

It would be a crime if you don't get a shot in the UFC. Ten in a row. You fought them all. You've beat many of them. What are we waiting for at this point? Well, no, man. They want me to get real old, so I can't compete, but they're wrong, man. I'm going to keep on going. I'll be that 60-year-old out there still beating the 20s. Well, I appreciate the time. I appreciate you coming on before your flight. And again, congratulations on the big win on Saturday. And good luck fulfilling that dream. I hope it happens sooner rather than later, Tanya.

Thank you. Appreciate it. All right. There she is. Tanya Avenger, triple threat they call her. kind enough to join us before she boards a flight, I do believe, back home. I think it's about time she gets that shot in the UFC. What else do we need at this point? Plus, she can dabble with 145 as well. That's perfect. Megan Anderson is the new Invicta 145 pound champion after Chris Cyborg officially vacated that title.

And that was long overdue, I think. She also, she posted a video online. And she also said that she wanted to fight Jermaine Durandumie end of July that July 20, what would it be, 815, 22, July 29th, I believe it is, card in Anaheim, which makes a lot of sense because Chris Cyborg calls Anaheim home, or at least Orange County home these days. And so she is somewhat of a draw there. I know Invicta has had success with her fighting in Orange County. We'd love to see that fight. I've tried to get an update on Jermaine Durandemey's hand. Remember the injured hand she talked about after her victory over Holly home,

but thus far, no update. Trying, no update thus far. So we don't know if she's going to have the surgery, if she's going to be out, if Chris is going to have to fight someone else. I hope that it is, Germain, and we can get some sort of finality to this whole situation, Chris fighting for a 145 pound title, but no update thus far.

We'll see what happens. but one step has been completed. She is no longer the Invicted champion. I think that's good for everyone involved. Okay, like I said at the top, it seems like every few days people are asking me, what's up with Marlon Marais? What's up with Marlon Marais?

Recently, World Series of fighting crowned a new WWSWF Bantamway champion, so they have moved on. He vacated the title, free agent after his win at the MSG theater on New Year's Eve. And it does seem like all sides point to him going towards UFC, but thus far, news on when and where he is going to fight for them. So, wanted to have him on to talk about this and a whole lot more. He joins us, Marlon Marius, that is, via the magic Skype. There he is.

Marlon, how are you? Very good, man. Pleasure always be here. Yes, great to talk to you. So I was told Marlon, and correct me if I'm wrong, that today we're going to see a different Marlon Marius on the show, that you are a little ticked off, that you have some things that you want to get off your chest. Enough is enough. Marlon has something to say. Is that accurate? I don't know. Depend what you're going to ask me. Okay, so the ball is in my court. Yes.

Okay. Have you signed with the UFC, Marlon? Man, looks like, but we work in a, you know, Ali, I believe him so much, you know. And we're trying to get the right thing, everything right. But, of course, I want to go to UFC. Yeah. It's a dream. And we work, man.

And I'm training. I have a fight and I'm getting better every day. And it's just a matter of time, man. I'm out of time to have the right date. I don't have a contract. I'm still a free agent. I don't have a date. I don't have a battle agreement.

So I'm training, man. I'm training like I'm fighting two weeks, three weeks, you know. I want to keep in good shape. So if I got a call for anybody, I'm going to be ready, you know. What's taking so long, Marlon? it's hard, you know, when you come from other organization and you kind of make good money, you know, and you don't want to let go a lot of stuff. So it's hard.

And I really understand. And I know when it comes to a term, yes or no, it's going to be good for me, you know. The money that we're talking about here, is it comparable to what you were making in World Series of Fighting? Or initially, are you going to have to take a pay cut? Yeah, of course, man. I'm one of the best fighters. Yeah. I'm not saying outside of UFC.

I would say no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, the top five. And everybody knows I can lead the champion. I can hang with the champion. And today we can say the UFC champion, Corey, he's the best out there, you know. He's the champion. He holds the belt. But that he makes a lot of money, you know. If I can hang with him, I also want to make a lot of money like all those champions, you know.

Sure. Like, see what's going to happen. I'm very excited, man, very excited. And I believe my coach is, my manager, and I know everything's going to come in the right time. So I remember the last time we spoke, you had signed this sort of unique deal with World Series of fighting. You'd fight one more time that MSG show. And that was a cool opportunity for you to fight at the MSG theater, but also on NBC. And then you kind of just left, but it was kind of done a little bit quietly.

And they put out this press release that they were going to have, you know, a Bantamway title fight. you weren't involved. Ultimately, why did you decide to leave? Why did you, you seemed relatively happy when we spoke? Why did you decide to become a free agent? I think that was time, you know? I'm a fighter, you know? I know fighters, they are in that prime, maybe for one year, maybe for two years, maybe for three years. I feel like now I'm on my prime. I was on my prime last year, but we had the opportunity to fight one more time and we took that fight. We knew we could make a statement and do against whatever they put in front of me a good fight and was a good fight and that that fight was good for me was in the city near home very good money and a lot of viewers

you know and i think close to one million viewers yeah the wSOF 34 and man that was good for me you know sure i didn't lose anything only only again and only add more to mile or more eyes and so now we are here man we are you're a lot of people want to see me fighting a lot of people worry about me you know but who has to be worried about myself is myself and that's it

what do you mean a lot of people worrying about you who are these people I don't know man I just feel like the fighters now they start to get nervous you know they see it's getting close you know it's getting closer to to see that name and the date and I don't know I feel like

I start to bother some guys and guys are in the UFC, man. Huh. You know? Like who? Who are we talking about here?

Who are we talking about here? I'm not exclusively talking about anybody. I just feel like some of the guys, if you're on a major promotion like the UFC, you should be able to fight whatever they offer to you, you know? I'm never going to pick opponent. Whatever UFC says or either promotion says, I'm going to say yes, you know.

If you're there, you've got to fight whatever they think you have to fight. Yeah. Is there a fight on the table right now? Because I heard that there was. Man, I think that's proposal, you know. And I don't care against who. I want the belt, man. Whatever it takes to do this, I'm going to do, you know? I'm very hungry.

I'm very motivation. The fight just got back to me, you know. I want to fight. And that's it, man. Whatever. I'm not thinking opponent, top one, top five. If I have to fight all top 15, 15 fights in a row

I'll fight man Doesn't matter you know I'm not that kind of guy I'm humble enough to know that I have to step by step get what I want you know So let me ask you about two names in particular When I say Jimmy Rivera

What do you think? Ha Jim Rivera It's tough guy man He's a top five guy you know He's been saying my name a couple times Yeah But when you talk about somebody It's because

They know you know everybody know who is who. If I drive a car, my car goes 100, 100 miles per hour. And that's a car on my side that I know that car only goes 90, you know, I'm going to be fine. But if I'm 100 and I know that car can go on to any, I'm going to start to worry, you know. This is what I think is happening. With him? Maybe, yes.

You don't want to go all in, huh? you don't want to actually say, you know, what's, what's bugging you here? I got a lot of respect, but I'll fight anybody, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And get that belt, I'm going to fight anybody. I got a lot of friends. I got a lot of guys I like, but to get to that belt, I'm going to fight anybody, you know. And what about how fell a Suncel?

Yeah, it's another top five guy, you know. Tough fight. And tough fight never backs down a fight. And it's another guy, another name, you know. I don't care. I'll fight anybody. Yeah, okay. And the UFC is returning to Rio in June.

Is that the perfect place for you? I mean, if you had your way, would you like the opportunity to fight back home in Brazil? Man, it would be a dream, man. I'm from Rio, you know, fight back home. And I'm not kidding, you know. I'm going to have a lot of people there and a lot of support. And I'm going to be giving them back what they've been giving me this many years. I've been fighting here in America.

You know, I want to give to Brazil. one fight. I want to fight there and this is one more dream. It would be cool, man. Go out there, put on a performance, show everybody what I can do and be cool. It's interesting to hear the words that you're using because you're saying, I am going to give

and, you know, like, it's so it's like almost like it's happening, you fighting in Rio. It's going to happen. It's going to happen, man. I'm Marlon Morrides, you know. I know in this game now a lot of people trying to be Connor McGregor because Conno is like this, but Conno MacGrago,

It's Conno McGregor, you know. I'm Marlon Morales. I'm a humble guy. I don't like to talk shit about anybody. I respect everybody. I've been in a lot of gyms. I give so much respect for all the fighters, but it's going to happen, man. It's just about the time.

It's just about the time I fight with these guys and show everybody. And I know what's going to happen. It's going to be good for me. Is there a part of you that thinks like, okay, I've been doing this long enough. I have won all these fights in a row. like I should probably be fighting for the belt right off the bat. I'm good enough, but I'll do whatever they want me to do. Like in your mind, you probably think that you already can hang with the Codys and the T.J.

Dilloshaws of the world, right? I'm ready to take the belt. Yeah. But it doesn't matter. This one more fact on me that helps me, you know, I'm ready to take the belt. So whatever they want me to fight, I'm going to be fighting. I'm going to keep fighting. Making more money, more victories.

It's good, you know. It's going to be good for me. I don't understand. Some guys, oh, I want to, they win three, four fights in a row, and I want the title shot. Man, why? The title shot you should earn, you know? The UFC should come to you. The bellator should call you and, hey, man, you just earn a title shot.

And you win these many fights. I can call. I don't work there. I'm a fighter. I fight. This is what fighters do. This is what I think fighters do, you know? Speaking of other promotions, did you or your management team talk to any other promotions

since you became a free agent or has a. always been UFC in your mind? Yes, man. You know, Ali's my manager and he has offers and we're thinking, man, we're going to see. I think something good is going to happen. I'm very excited and I can't wait to get that call and let you all guys know. But is there a chance you don't go to the UFC or would you be disappointed? Like you have to balance, you know, making a lot of money, getting the best offer, but also the competition, right?

Yeah, man, you have to understand. I have a family and I can do something that's going to hurt my family. I have dreams, but I want to put everything together. Were you sad to leave WSOF? Because you've spoken very highly, like they gave you this opportunity. They helped you find some stability in your career. Were you a little bit sad to leave? No, I'm not sad, man.

I'm happy, you know. I'm doing what I love. We had very good relationship. I have nothing bad to say about anybody or about the promotion only good things they make my dream come through you know and I was able to buy a house for my family and and thanks for the world series you know they did this for me and I'll never forget them and I did I did some some good fights and I hopefully nobody forget the times I had that you know I one more opportunity maybe if I did something bad for them I don't know I I'll like

to say sorry you know but I know I was a good guy and I was a good fighter and sorry about what? Sorry about what? I don't know. Maybe something. I don't know. Maybe. Maybe you know when sometimes you talk with somebody and you leave and you don't like, uh, maybe I'm sorry about something, you know? You're too nice,

Marlon, to be a fighter. This is what I've determined from this interview and other interviews with you. I'm nice now, but I'm not going to be too nice when I'm on a cage. Oh, there he is. You're not, you're not a fighter, but you don't have to worry about this. What do you mean? What is that supposed to mean?

Yeah, you're not fighting. You don't have to worry if I'm nice or not. Sure. Well, I just mean I've seen fighters who are too nice sometimes not get, you know, Damien Maya comes to mind. Sometimes the nice guys in MMA don't get what they want or what they deserve, more importantly. Does that worry you ever when you see what's happening in the UFC, the way title shots are being given, things like that?

I don't know, man. I have to agree sometimes with Dana, man. You just eat what you queue, you know? If you kill a big fish, you're going to eat a big fish. If you kill a little fish, you're not going to eat that big meal, you know? I don't know, man. I think who's getting the most space? Who deserves?

Sure. Who did, you know? So it's part entertainment, part sport? Yes, it's everything to get, man. You have to play and you have to dance like the music, you know? So does that mean if and when you sign with UFC that you'll be talking a little more, you'll be talking some smack and things like that, you'll be changing your demeanor a bit? I don't know, man.

You can get the fans in different ways, you know. You have to be yourself. And myself and in the cage, I have my way, you know. I like to knock guys out. And I know people like to watch knockouts. I know people like to watch highlights and good fights. And I think I'm going to get that part, you know. I think you can get there in different ways.

Can I ask you, if you were to look in your crystal ball and give us a prediction, your debut fight in Rio, let's say, who do you think it's against? What do you, what are you seeing? What can you tell us? Come on. I don't know, man. Seems like it's a two-horse race

between Rivera and the Sunsat at this point. Is that accurate? I don't know. That's other guys, too. Oh, there is. Omeida. Okay. I know nobody wants to fight Alameda, too.

Yeah. I don't know. Do you think nobody wants to fight you also? Feels like. There we go. Finally. We get it. Are you feeling frustrated?

I don't know why. Why? Yeah. Yeah. Well, maybe because you're good. Maybe it's a compliment. Yes, but good fighters, fight with good fighters, you know?

Yeah. This is the game, you know? You're never going to know if you can beat somebody or know if you don't fight them, you know? Fight is a fight. It's not training, you know? What do you mean by that? Like when you train with somebody, you see a guy, but you don't see you. who he is in the cage.

Right. Are you saying because you've trained with Rivera before? No, no, I'm not saying because of that, but we've trained before, you know,

but it doesn't mean anything. Okay, all right. Did you feel like more people were calling you out when you were in World Series of Fighting and now that you're close to coming to the UFC, you're not getting as much as that talk,

as much of that talk? Yeah, man. I don't understand, bro. I'm like, I'm top five in almost every, every world rank. Yeah.

It's be good, man. Be a top guy outside of UFC. He thinks he's good enough to be a champion and welcome him to the UFC and beat him. It's a good spot. No? Must be good, man. Yeah.

I take that shot. Well, I'm not a fighter, as you noted, but I can understand why someone would want to take that shot. Yeah, a lot of Gilbert Melendez, he went to the UFC, almost close to a title shot. He fought for the title. Yeah, yeah. Right off the bat.

Eddie fought Seroni and if he wins, he was going to fight for the title. And that's it, man. That's award rankings, too. That's different promotions outside the UFC. You know, people have to understand. That's not the only, only MMA promotion. When do you expect to wrap this up, the deal with the UFC or any other promotion? Are you hoping it happens this week?

I mean, you've been sitting on the... I hope hang right now on you and get a call, man. Okay. But I want, man. Well, they listen to the show every week. Maybe they, oh, maybe they think, oh, wait, we didn't get that signature yet. Let's get this going. I mean, what's taking so long here?

Yes. Let's go. I just want to sign that paper fight and show you guys. All right. Well, you've already showed me, so you don't have anything to show to me personally. But I get what you're trying to say, the entire community, so to speak. Yes, yes, yes. All right.

I just need to put that stamp on, you know. Okay. Marlon, I wish you the best. Good luck in finalizing the deal. And I hope you do get that opportunity to fight next to, you know, other Brazilian idols, as they're called, right? Anderson Silva, you know, some really big names, Jose Aldo. Imagine you fighting on the same card as these people. What an honor that would be, right?

Yeah, man, that's good, you know, especially in Rio, you know, that's unbelievable, man. That's bigger than anything that I thought before. And I'm thankful, you know, I'm blessed to have Mark Ham. Ricardo Almeida, Frankie, Edson, Eddie, Ali, all these guys that help me daily, you know, that's it. By the way, what about this guy Zabit that Mark Henry always talks to me about? This guy is something else, right? This guy is not something else. This guy is really something else, man.

Wow. I see clips of him and he looks like, I mean, he's a skinny guy, he doesn't look that intimidating. And Mark tells me that he's unbelievable, that he's never seen anything like him. I just want to avoid that guy He's ready for the UFC Man No, I'm serious now This guy's the UFC level

He's ready And I don't know why he's not there yet But he's definitely Definitely top 10 In UFC definitely Okay If they give him a guy Higher rank than that

It's not going to look good The fight Wow All right Another name to look out for Marlon I wish you the best Good luck to Good luck with the deal

and of course we'll be talking to you after you signed said deal. I'm hoping that it's in the UFC and I'm hoping that it's an exciting fight for you. Thank you for the time. Thank you, man. Always good to be here with you guys. There he is. Marlon Maristee now former WSOF

Bantamweight champion. He is getting a little anxious. It's taking so long. Let's get something going, right? Certainly fighting in Rio would make all the sense in the world, especially when you group him with the like of Anderson Silva and Joseo

and the other Brazilian fighters on the card. I think those two names, when you consider the fact that Cody Garbrandt and T.J. Dilshaw already matched up. I don't necessarily think it makes a ton of sense to put him in there

against the likes of Dominic Cruz. But a fight like him versus Jimmy Rivera or maybe Hafele's son-sau, those two in particular come to mind. So we'll see what happens. Sounds like they're close. Hopefully we'll find out sooner rather than later.

Okay, let us move along now. It is a busy weekend coming up for Bellator. They have a show March 31st. That's this Friday. And it's a very unique fight because it's King Mo Lollawal, our good friend, against Quentin Rampage Jackson, another friend of the show. And it's unique because, well, it's a rematch. That's not really the unique thing, but it's the last fight on Rampage Jackson's contract.

And he told us on the show back in January that if he wants to continue fighting, he probably has to go back to the UFC per the terms of the deal that he signed around three years ago when he left Belator and he had that issue with Belator, had that one fight in the UFC at UFC 186, and then had to go back to Belator. And he's had one fight there. It was this past summer against Satoshi Ishi. and now he's headlining the card this Friday at the Allstate Arena in Rosemont, Illinois, and he is doing so against King Moe, who's on the phone, and he's going to be very mad at me because when I spoke to King Mo last night, he said he wanted entrance music, and at first he said, give me some NWO. And I like that idea, but then he said, give him some freebirds, and I like that idea as well.

But then I wanted to one-up him and give him something special, but New York Rick, being the Debbie Downer that he is, put the kibosh on the whole thing. So I have no entrance music. Kingmore, are you there? Yeah, man, what was the song? It's some kind of BS, Mo. I had some good music for you. So the music that I wanted to actually introduce you with

was the great tune by the West Texas Rednecks. Rap is crap because I've always sort of associate... That's my chance, man. That's my chance, man. There's the only one thing that I hate Because it's a bunch of crap. Hit me, hit me. Hit me.

Man, but I ain't got to get you with that, man, because I know people are listening to it's from Texas that be rapping, and I'm cool with. I hate rap. Okay, but then I was going to take it one notch higher and give you three potential...

Because I feel like throughout your career, have you used the same song, Mo throughout your entire career. You switched it up, right? Yeah, I switched it a few times. You've never stuck to one. Why haven't you? I feel like a guy who has an appreciation for pro wrestling

should stick to one. How come you haven't stuck to one? No, because my last fight, I was gonna do something, like, I'd come up to a song, I'd come up to some pro wrestling with my last fight. Like, my very last fight, I was gonna do a big, like, pro wrestling big.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah. I was starting that people just know. Yeah, but I, still determining what the song is. Wait, you don't know what the song is? Well, I don't know what the song is? You know what I'm saying?

Because I thought about Stone Cold, but then, I'm saying, but the original rock, the nation's domination, that went hard too, because I was thinking about that. I think about the old school thing, but I don't like rock and roll like that. Sure. You know, but then Harlem Heat, you know, Harlem Heat gets me hype.

Okay, so, man, this would have been perfect with my idea, but they told me due to like legal reasons or something, I couldn't play all the songs. I had three options for you that would have been perfect for this fight on Friday. One of them, I'm going to kind of play it in the background here. Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Let's see if it could actually work because one of them I thought...

Don't get in trouble, though. Don't get in trouble, man. You don't get in some lawsuits. Okay, one of them... Tell me the song. You ain't got to do it. Slickster, Jive Soul, bro. Oh, man, that's my january.

too. Hey, shot to Akeem. Akeem, you know what I'm saying? That's my dog right there. One man gang. Oh, yeah. Akeem. Hopefully, after I beat Quentin,

hopefully after I'll get a chance to see him because I will be at Russell Con. Me and I met John. I'm at Russell Con. What? Hopefully I get a chance to, yeah, I'm going to Russell Con. Right after I'll be Clinton,

I'm going to go to Orlando, just sign you at Russell Con. Then I'm going to Lakeland, Florida, to watch the Young Bucks, take on. the Broken Hardee. Are you going to WrestleMania? No, no what?

No, I'm a Ringavonna fan, you know what? So I watch Ringavana first and foremost. But you're actually going to be in the vicinity. You're going to be there. Yeah, I know. I'm going to be there, but, man, I don't know. I'm not doing it this year, man. I'm not doing it.

You know, the storyline at Ringavana is way better, man. It's better. Yeah. It's better action. Adam Cole. you know what I'm saying? He's doing a thing. You got you got Daniels. He's a champion right now.

I just like the way the storyline is. Can we just be honest? I mean, the product's a bit weak these days, right? I mean, I saw this lineup. What is this? I mean, there's nothing special on the card. This is not WrestleMania. This is a run-of-the-mill show.

Oh, oh, yeah, yeah, that's why I don't watch it. You know what? The funny thing is, the same match you see at WrestleMania, you'll see on Monday. Yeah. And Tuesday. Yeah. So I can just read up all right

And my boys in telling what it But I'm going to watch Ringabana That's where it's at Wow So they're doing a show the night before WrestleMania Yep Okay so this was my other option for you

Do you remember the fabulous Rujo brothers Ah nah nah nah What was it? What was it so? So you're more of a southern wrestling guy See this was a northern wrestling type of thing This is Jacques and Raymond Rujo And they had a song

From Montreal to Memphis Pallé vu Frans Tell all the boys The Rujos on the way. I remember them now. I remember them now. I remember them. Why I like this song for you was the hook was

We're all American boys and you were an all American. Yeah. You know what? That's too Trump right for me. I can't damn that. Okay. Why, are you a little embarrassed

to be an American these days? Is that what you're saying? No, I'm never, no, I'm not embarrassing in American at all. Okay. I'm mean first. They're in American. Now what about the Honky Tonk Man song?

Because you are from Tennessee as well, right? That's where you were born. The Honky Tonk Man. Oh, man. You know what? You should pick Alex Wright. Alex Wright is the jam. We've talked about Alex Wright for years.

If only Alex Wright knew how much we talked about him. That dance was the colors dance for years, man. That dance was so long. I've got there. Man. Have you ever done the dance in the cage? You know what? No, but you know what? I might mess around

doing it on Quentin. Oh, my gosh. I bet you beat him. Okay, I suppose we should actually talk about the fight. Was this something that you asked for? Did you want this fight? Did you know that his run in Bellator was coming to an end? And did you say, let me get one more crack at this guy?

No, I mean, I didn't know anything. What they did was, they hit me up and said, Mo, we have a fight for you. I said, who? They said, we can't tell. Oh, this again? on the contract. I was like, I was like,

well, wait, they're like, well, you can pick 235. I don't do catch weights. Let's do heavyweight.

I thought it was Bobby Lashley because I was like, oh, me with Bobby Lash should be, you know, that's cool, because he ain't fought in a while,

but then it ended up being Quentin. I thought that was Quentin before, but before went out and they announced the fight. Huh. I thought on it backstage. Are you kidding?

So you just blindly signed a contract? I mean, Mitreone told me the same thing, and I'll be honest, I didn't believe him. Who blinded? finally signs about agreement. That doesn't make sense. I do, because it doesn't matter. You know what I'm saying? Fight to fight. You have to fight.

You have to fight whoever's the funny. I'm not going to duck and dodge nobody. Okay. If they came off of me like, Godzilla, I'd be like, cool, let's do it. So when... If anyone wants to fight me, I'm fighting. I don't care. So when you found out it was Mo, you must have been super happy, though, right? Excuse me, not Mo, rampage. You mean?

Oh, yeah, yeah. I was like, yeah, it's cool. But I was like, man, I was kind of obese. what's this boy doing? I was like, but I guess the good thing I picked heavyweight because he couldn't make 235 neither, so I did him a favor. So what's going on here? Because last week on the conference call, you guys were going back and forth, he thought it was a catchway,

you said it was heavyweight? What is it? Man, it's always, look, it's always been a heavyweight. Okay. It's always, you know what I'm saying? Someone riding him, or he just tried to play dumb, but never been 235. It's always been a heavyweight. It says heavy weight, fight, heavy weight.

fight, heavy weight event, never catch weight. You don't see catch weight nowhere on the post. You see heavy weight. So why do you think he said that? It's the thing, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, because because chicken's out, right? He would say he'd be

260, right, when we fight. Well, he was, if the fight was at 235, that meant he never meant on making weight. He never, he was never going to tend to make weight because he said it's got to be too 60 can fight time. I can't see him cutting weight to make 235.

You know what I'm saying? So I just think that he's just saying that to say that. Do you think it's to your advantage that it's a heavyweight fight because maybe he won't, you know, work as hard to lose that extra weight? I've no idea. He says that he's in great shape. He says that he's lifting weight

doing stuff he's never done before, you know? So maybe, maybe it's a bigger, stronger, Quentin. At 260, I really don't care personally. I don't care what he does. You know, I'm just worth of meat. I don't go out there, take care of business, not worried about him without. Do you talk about the weight stuff to get under his skin?

Do you know that it bothers him? I don't know what bothers him. I just, I'm just, I was being real with him. I've seen him. I was like, man, you were kind of fat. You know, yeah, I'm out of shit, though. I'm like, man, you win a bra? He's like, you kind of kind of shut up.

But then when I think about it, he was biggest play that one boy on the TV show, calling him tinnies and everything. So I'm thinking maybe test the nerve. I have no idea. I don't, I figured maybe, he said you the thigh. I don't believe it that.

I think you like to eat. That's all it is. He's got to be honest with, if you like to eat, just say it. Don't come with those thyroid excuse. Man, you know what I'm saying? He did an interview with ESPN last week,

and they asked him what his biggest regret was, as far as his career is concerned, and he said getting into MMA altogether. Did you see this? And if so, what do you make of that? I didn't. I don't really pay attention to the like MMA interviews and stuff like that

I just chill if I see someone at school It pops up I'll peep it but With him like, why am I going to watch it? Because I know he's just saying same old, lame stuff The breastink You're hump my leg I like him to like to fight You know, you can try

You know what I'm saying And talk about a bunch of nonsense So the fact that it's like this He says he made the regret getting the MMA Where would you be with that in the MMA? You wouldn't be, you wouldn't have no money, no status, nothing. So it, you take the good with the bad, you know what I'm saying? Like, you know, granted, it's a stressful job.

You know what I'm saying? It's a train, you're the diet. But at the same time, it pays your bills and it's brought him to a different type of status. You know what I'm saying? He got a chance to get up out of Memphis where he could be in Memphis still up to no good. Right. So it's one of the other, you know what I'm saying? You want to be broke or you want to be paid but working hard to get paid.

in a way this is kind of like one of those old school wrestling matches in Memphis where we know he's leaving the territory but but in wrestling the guy leaving does the job in this sport it's all up in the air this is a weird spot to be in do you feel like you're almost fighting for bellatory here like you can't let him win and then leave and go with you know with some heat to the other promotion to go up north you know what I'm saying yeah this is this is his loser leaves town match he should leave as a loser, you know what I'm saying? But if he wins, he's still leaving town. But if he wins, he's still leaving. Oh, yeah, but, yeah, but that's a big if. Yeah. That's a big if, like many Fs.

Right, right. You know what I'm saying? Do you regret Moe taking that fight against Miracle Crowe Cop 13 days after your win over Ishi? No, no. You get to take risk, you know what I saw? I should fight Crowe Cop. Granted, if I wish I would have a week or a week. maybe three days of transform, but I didn't.

You know, I was winning the fight. I got caught in the corner. He was smart because he used the ropes to bust up the, like when I took him down, he bounced up the ropes, and he was used the strength and size that, you know, it is what it is, man, I took that risk. You know, I'll fight anybody. Anytime, if I'm healthy, I'll take the fight.

They could call me to, it could call me now. I'm like, Mo, you want to fight Thedor? The day after he'd fight, you beat Clinton? I don't take it. You know what I'm saying? What I do? Say no? Hmm. Okay. But in a perfect world, you wish you had a little more time.

Well, no, I'm, no, 13 days is cool, but I wish I had time to train for them. I wish, like, if, because my problem was, when I came back from England, I had to go get a visa. So I spent all that time trying to get a visa and all that stuff, and guess what? Can't get one. Oh. So I called Japan, like, look, man, I can't get no B6, there ain't no time. So I find me there early, and now I'll try, I'll sneak in, and then I'll do my thing. and you fought my corners in a few days after that.

Well, I snuck in, but they threw my corners in, and the corners got in the day before way in. So I really couldn't train, you know what I'm saying, at all. I just kind of just chilled him and just ate, you know what I'm saying, fast food, KFC, and met with my boy Cody Hall-Scott-Hawson. You know what I'm saying? Med with him, chopped up with him. Wait a second.

Why are you eating fast food in Japan, though? There's so many better options there. Like what? Like Japanese food. You know I'm not going to risk in seafood I mean like A food poison

And you like You like your chances better You like your chances better with KFC Oh hell yeah If KFC's cooked All right Fair enough You know what are the chances Moe that you fight

On this MSG card in June I was good You know what I'm saying I'm thinking I might be on it Who knows I'm hoping be on it. We'll see. We'll see what happens. Barring an injury, I'll be on it.

Have they told you that, barring an injury, you're on it? No, but I'm just saying it just to try to get out of it. So if anybody from Blackcom's listening or a flight TV listening, if I'm not injured or have no injuries, put me on that car over somebody. Well, because I was just thinking they're not going to do Bader Phil Davis because they said they don't want to have three title fights on the card. And so I feel like you need to have Bader on this card.

maybe you versus beta would make sense if everything goes well this Friday. No, that makes sense to me. So you know what? Maybe you should tweet out the Vita. And Scott Coker and Rich too and everybody, like, hey, it sounds like a great fight. King Muhammad Willa versus Ryan on Beta. Okay.

What do you make of all these signings? I think it's good, man. It's like the more options spiders have, the more chance they have to make money. So, you know, you just don't want one option because then you just get low-balled. But there are more options that you can shop around and try to get the best price and the best deal.

Right. But some people don't, the fans don't get that. They don't get that because they're not in the fight world and they're just fans for a reason. But we get it. And I think that the more, the more, the more competition is, the better it is for the sport all around. I couldn't agree more.

Are you surprised, though, that they're signing this many people? Nah, because Vicon got long money. People, it's funny because people may seem Oh, well, give me a year or two, the UFC is going to purchase Bellatory. No. I'm like, Vycom got money, man. They just don't know because they fans the UFC. They don't do their research.

Right. You know what I'm saying? So, like, Viacom has a lot of money, and they're backing Belator, and they're trying to make Bellator. They hope because Belator becomes successful. That's all it is. Is there someone out there that you wish that they would sign? Um, there are a few cats out there.

Like, um, they signed the Russians. that kid I've beaten in Japan Jerry Petroska I think he is good I think he's a tough fighter They should bring him He's action packed

Get a few signs of heavyweight You know I don't know who's out there just yet But oh yeah Ali Akbari I think we should become more International Get more people

You know overseas And we have more interest in matchups Those those Sweden Tuesdays They're called The dude I forget Carl I can't say his last name. Rexston or Auberson,

he's fighting the last two two origins ago. He fought one of the Russians. Yeah. And he lost, but he's a tough. He's a tough kid, too. He's tough.

I thought that you were going to say Jack Swagger. Is he all trying to fight? I know Jake. If Jake wants to fight, Jake, he's a double tour. Now, Jake, he was a good wrestler back in Oklahoma. Back in Oklahoma,

he was tough. I heard he wants to fight. Well, Jack Swaggney, hit us up. It ain't hard to get a hold of it. Hit us up. Mo, for the last few months, I've been trying to figure out this mystery,

and I feel like you're the only one who's going to shoot straight with me, all right? What's up? What happened with Robbie Lawler and ATT? Man, I have no idea. I'll say, I don't know. Come on. No, but no, because, no,

Garrett, because the thing is, here's what happened, right? Yeah. Literally, the weekend my fight, We were training. We're the same gym training. Literally, we're training. Spahn.

He helped me train for each of a little bit. And then I come back and Cammy's like, yeah, Robbie's leaving. I was like, for what? So I talked to Robbie. Robbie was just like, hey, it's my reason and just, I just never understood.

Like, no one understood. We're all, everyone's still kind of confused. Like, we're thinking they need to come back, but he's not. I have no idea what happened, man. I'm being real with you. You didn't ask him? You know, I asked him, and I just never made no sense.

He was like, you know, I just, he's like, I just, he's like, I just, he's like, he's like, he never, he never went to detail. He's just like, you know, because Rob was in a few words. He might say five words here and there if you get lucky. But he was like, man, you make a change. I wasn't here no more. You need to do some different. Wow.

Are you disappointed to see him go? It is what is, man. I wanted to stay. but, you know, he chose the league. He was best for him. He was doing so well. I mean, ATT helped revitalize his entire career become UFC champion. It just kind of came out of nowhere.

Yeah, ATT did, but at the same time, Robbie did too. Sure, sure, sure. You know, camps don't do so much. Camps don't, we can provide a training environment, but at the same time, it's up to Robbie do the work. Robby, you know, he works. He works hard, man. He had to kick him out the gym. Yeah. Next day after hard battles, like when he fought...

When he fought with Carlos Condon. Yeah. Even when he fought... He was back in the gym, man, lifting weights. Even after he was knocked out? Yeah, man, Robbie don't stop, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You tell me, Robbie don't stop.

He just keeps on going. By the way, I have a message from Phil Barone. He's watching right now. You want to hear what he said to me? Where he says? This is regarding your weekend in Florida. He said the truth is, Mo can't get a ticket.

I'll be at Russell Con with Future Legend and WrestleMania. Tell him Frankie has an extra mania ticket for him for always supporting Future Legend. I can get a ticket. I don't like W.I.E. that much. I like Ring of Honor. That's why you see when you notice, when you see me wearing,

I've been wearing Ringerva's shirts, Buck's, my favorite tag team, you know, Adam Cole, go hard. I watch them all Dalton with them boys, the briscoes. I watch, look, I'm a ring of honor, man. You know what I'm saying? I ain't ring of honor. WWE is cool, but it's for kids, man.

Don't be such a wrestling hipster, Mo. I mean, you know you love the pageantry of WrestleMania. There's only been 33 of them. Come on. You're in the territory. You should go to it. Nah, man, I'm cool. I'm cool, man.

I'm cool. I'm cool. That's it. That's it. All right. What about our friend, Daniel Cormier? What do you think of his chances? a couple weeks.

Chances of 100%. I think he's going to win. Easy? I like his chances great. Yeah? Yeah. And nothing,

listen, nothing is ever easy in this game because we need to play that work through camps. It's going to be hard, but, you know, you know,

you know, Rumbull's, rumbulling, Rumbull's us to be played with. You know what? He's a serious competitor, too. I just hope they both go out there,

playing a great show, I hope gain of wins. I hope they both get paid, 110%. Okay, two last quick things for you. Everyone's talking to me these days about Matt Riddle. In fact, I went to go see Matt Riddle compete on this indie show the night before UFC 203 in Cleveland.

I don't know if you know this, but it was very fun. Shana Bezler was on the car too. Why is he having so much success? And for example, when you tried to become a wrestler, it didn't work out as much. Because he actually found a whole wrestling schedule. I didn't. I was still doing MMA. And he's over.

He understands psychology. I understood it too, but I was trying to do both. he stuck to one and he's smart and when I hear from all my people he's over. You know what I'm saying? He's over. We got a shirt right here on the desk, bro. He's the king of the bros right here. Matt Riddle.

Yeah, Matt Riddle's legit, man. He's legit, man. I rock with him. I'm proud of him, you said. You cut out there for a sec. Yeah, I'm proud of him. Okay. To be doing what he's doing, I'm proud of him, man, because it's not easy. People don't understand this wrestling game is hard. man.

Great story. And the last thing is every time or most of the times that I check in on a rampage sort of promo clip leading up to this fight

he is talking about and they're putting this in the promo about like not wrestling and humping and things like that do you think that he is trying to sort to do some reverse

psychology on you to avoid having you try to wrestle him and if so are you willing to oblige are you going to give him what he's asking for? Like man

that reverse psychology stuff is just plain stupidity I'm going to tell you why I'm going to tell you I bet you'll stand in with me okay Quinn here's my challenge I bet you won't come in under 230

and you know so I bet you'll try to wrestle with me and it's going to be no what he's saying is that's like too one going to Hodger Gracie saying that's like Hodger Gracie going to somebody saying hey I bet you won't grapple with me of course he was going to grapple with him you know what I'm saying

that's the best way to win Why would I want to stand in the bank with somebody in 50 pounds heavy than me? Seriously. Like, what type of sense does I make? Right. Makes none. All right. There's a little preview of what's to come.

I'm looking forward to it. Fun card. You want to say something? No, I'll get a bite for that leg. All right. And hopefully if everything goes well, we'll finally see that Alex Wright dance in the middle of the cage. Can you deliver on that promise for once? I mean, you've been teasing it for years now.

now. I tried to do it one time, but the camera angle didn't get me on the walkout while I thought Mark Kerr. But text me before I go out to the day of the fight. Fair enough. So remind me, because I'm going to hit that dance so cold. All right, all right. I look forward to it. Another thing to look out for this Friday on Spike.

Mo, always a pleasure catching up. Thank you for the time and good luck on Friday. Thank you, man. I appreciate it. There he is. King Mohammed Lawal. He is fighting Rampage this Friday on Spike. also Marcus Galvan versus Emmanuel Sanchez, Chase Gormley versus Sergei

Haritonov, and Noad Lahad is on the card. Remember him? Our friend Noad, we've got his hat right over there in the corner. You can see it, I think, on the Skype angle. He is fighting Lloyd Carter. There it is, right on top of my luchador mask. So that's this Friday on Spike TV. Okay. Let's move along.

A lot of people have been asking to see this individual on our show. show they wanted to hear from him. It broke two weeks ago that Bellator had signed Dylan Danis and the internet was in a frenzy afterwards. Dylan Danes, of course, one of the best BJJ practitioners in the entire world. And in MMA circles as of late, has received a lot of attention because Connor McGregor brought him in prior to his, what was it, second fight against Nate Diaz. And, well, he has received a lot of buzz since that partnership.

And then two weeks ago, as I said, Belator signed him. So people want to know what's going on with New York's own, Dylan Danis, by the way. Will he debut at MSG? Why did he sign with Belator? All these questions and more we want to ask him. So he is joining us now via the magic of Skype. Dylan Danis, there he is. Dylan, how are you, my man?

Okay, bro. How are you doing? I'm doing great. Congratulations on the deal. Did this come together quickly? because I remember when you were on the show the last time just a couple months ago, you were talking about maybe CFFC, you know, fighting for a local

promotion, and then all of a sudden two weeks go out of nowhere we hear Bellator. So how did this all come about? I think at the end of the day, you know, they called me the money man, so when the money calls I picked up. So they offered you a deal that you couldn't refuse. Exactly, you know, I mean, that's what I'm looking for is the big money. So

and it was just the right timing, I think the CFFC was good, but the money was, it was good, but you know, I think I deserve more than that. So I just bought with where the money was. Are you happy with the Belator deal? Yeah, I'm very happy with it. I'm excited, you know?

Were you surprised that they came to assume before you've had one amateur or pro fight? I wasn't surprised. I mean, I have a bigger following and a bigger name than probably everybody on the roster. So, I mean, at the time of the day, I wasn't really surprised about it. I mean, it was a right move for them, you know?

I mean, you could put any of those bums against me and then they'll get a name. And so what about the UFC? Given your connection with SBG, they have a good relationship with the UFC. Did you see if there was any interest there? Before signing with Belator, did you want to see what was the temperature over there as far as you going there? Yeah, I mean, we talked to the UFC. For them, it's hard to sign someone that doesn't have any fights.

But, you know, I mean, we were in negotiations, but, I mean, Belator came with the money in the beginning. But in the future, you know, we'll see what happens. But, you know, at this time, it was just right this time with Belator and everything was right. The money was right. And they needed a star, you know, so. I love the subtle. It's just, it's great. It's, it's very, you know, I appreciate it very much.

How many, how many fights did you sign for? Four fights. Four fights. Could you give us a ballpark, like what this big money, I mean, I'm always curious and I apologize for prying. But what are we talking about here as far as dollars and cents? I'm the highest paid guy in Belator now, so that's a lot. like it's a Is that true, really?

Yeah, that's what I think here. All right. Wow. Well, that, I'm sure that will ruffle a few feathers. How are you going to approach this now? Because correct me if I'm wrong, last weekend you competed in a jihitsu tournament, correct?

The Pan Ams? Yeah. I'm still doing jiu-jitsu. So my deal was with them is that I'm going to compete or I'm going to fight for them after ADCC. Right now I'm just, you know, still doing my goals and I'm just competing in the ghee and no-gui. I still have my goals that I want.

want to do and then after I'll go to MMA. I don't really care what anybody else is like trying to pressure me into fighting and calling me out. I don't really give a shit. Okay, so ADCC just for the uninformed, that is, when is that, in September? Yeah, September 19th, I think. Okay. For sure.

That's the date. And then I would probably go into full MMA mode after the. So, so will you retire from Jiu-Jitsu afterwards or, I mean, is that going to be the end of your jit-sue career? It's hard to say. I mean, I'm not sure. I had to see how I feel. it, but I mean, in my mind, I'm thinking I'm just going to go all into MMA, but who knows?

I mean, I'm going to be killing everybody anyway, so I might be able to do a jitzy tournament here and there in between the fight, so we'll see. And so if, so if, if you, if you are only planning on going full into MMA in September, why sign now? They just want to lock me in. I mean, when you got someone this big and, like, this, you know, big of a name, you know, why, why not lock me in because I'm going to go somewhere else? For them, they just wanted to, you know, lock me in.

And I mean, I won't fight, so it was just the right thing to do, you know. And I honestly felt like, I know I do talk a lot of shit. I do say a lot of things, how I feel. I'm always honest. Yeah. And like, sometimes when I'm saying all that stuff, if I don't sign with anybody, every's him like, okay, this kid's just all talk. Sure.

These kids just all this. So now I'm going to sign. I'm going to prove myself. So I think it's better when I'm signed now. So people are like, okay, so it's not just talk. He's going to go out there and show what he has. Okay, so let's address the elephant in the room here because I think you alluded to it. Neiman Gracie tweeted about you late last night and said that he was offered a fight

against you for the MSG card June 24th, but it's not coming to fruition, sort of alluded to the fact that you didn't want to fight him. What's your side of the story here? It was the first time I've ever heard of him. I didn't know who that was until this morning. Someone told me who that was. So what happened was with the, I think it's, I'm not sure the guy's name of Bellator, the matchmaker.

Rich Chow. I told him, I said, I think, yeah, it was one of those guys. I told him, I said, I'll miss the world if you can get me on the pay-per-view for Belator. I said, oh, I missed the Jiu-Jitsu world. So then he came back to me, he goes, I have a fight for you on the Spike TV. And I said, no, I'm not taking that. You know, I said, I told you, I'm only missing the World's Super for pay-per-view.

You know, and that was my, and I was going to try to use my leverage and say, I'm what are you doing for pay-view. And they were like, we can get you on Spike, we already made fights. They're like, we had you a spot on the pay-review, but then we heard that you're going to fight later on. And then they just, I guess they offered him the fight without even asking me. You understand? So they were like, oh, do you want to fight down on Spike TV? But they didn't even ask me anything. I'm not missing the world's response

to fight him on Spike TV So I was like I'm gonna do it for pay-per-view And was there any discussion Did they consider moving this fight to pay-per-view? Not that I heard of So I'm just gonna, you know My goal is to do win the world's in the ghee So I'm not gonna astray that for anything else

You know, I thought being on pay-per-view And Massachusettsburg Garden is a big deal So many people that fought there were corner You know like so many legends and boxing fought there So I was like you know that I can miss the world for and maybe compete next year or something, but why go fight on Spike TV? I can do that later on in my life, so I want to win the world, that's my goal.

So he could say all the things he wants. I mean, they're just trying to get an aim off of me, you know? It's understandable. I don't like anything against it, you know, because they're all just trying to get their name out and call me out, and then they get a little bit of media attention. It's cool, you know? Well, it was shoot straight with me here, Dylan. You've heard of Neiman Gracie before. I mean, I've heard of him. I'm not a jiu-tit-to-you-he guy. I know who he is. Right, you know this guy?

Actually, you know who he is? Yes, of course. what he's done. Well, I know what he's done in World Series of Fighting and things like that, not so much in June. But I know him, I know his name. I know, like, I know who he is, you know. I'm sure you know him. Really? Weren't you supposed to fight him like a couple of years ago

or compete against him? Wasn't that on the table for one of the tournaments? I don't think so. Maybe an Ibegev tournament. You never cross-passed with him? I mean, it's a pretty small community, right? I don't know. I carry myself cold, so I don't really see but I don't thought to nobody.

Okay. No friends in this, so I don't want to see you. And was there a part of you that thought, you know, there is a good chance with all due respect that more people will watch the Spike TV card than the pay-per-view. You know, like the Spike TV card could get a million viewers. It's going to be tough for the pay-per-view to get a million. So maybe that's good for your brand, sponsors and things like that.

Yeah, I mean, but let's be honest. I mean, my first place can be on Spike TV anyway, so, like, I'm not really missing out of anything, you know what I mean? I mean, the world's to me, the ghee world to me, It's been something I wanted since I was 15. So for me to miss it, it has to be very enticing, you know? So that's just how I felt about it. I just mentioned to them like, okay, hey, put me out.

Like, it was just like, I was just trying to see you. Like, I was trying to feel the water. It wasn't even like anything. Like, I'm, I'm ready, they already know that I'm coming after EDCC. It was just to feel the water. And then they're offering people, they're offering fights the people against me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know about it.

And then I pulled out. I mean, it is what it is. It's how the game goes. But, I mean, it's just BS. like, you know, the people like to kind of bash my name for no reason. Does this rub you the wrong way a little bit? Like, I mean, this is the beginning of your run with them, and you're saying that they're offering you as an opponent to other people

when you've told them that you want to go through with this tournament in September. Like, did that bother you a little bit? Yeah, it did. It did bother me. I talked to them, I texted them. I said, like, don't do that, you know, don't put my name out there. Like, that's the people. And, I mean, we cleared it out. And the air is clear.

So, I mean, it's cool. you know, I mean, it is what it is, you know, to people make mistakes, you know. So, it is. They best not disrespect the king. I mean, they should know better, right? Exactly. I have a lot of respect for Belcher.

Sure. They're giving me a chance and they're helping me out there also. It does sort of feel like the stars were aligning for you because you are a New York guy. You're very proud to be from this area. And here we are, MSG, you know, it's three months away. How tempting was it to do? I know.

I agree. Right? Oh, man. Trust me, it's tempting. I mean, it's very tempting because I have a lot of favorite boxers that fought there, you know. It's really cool. There's a lot of history in that building, and it's like only three blocks from my house. Right.

It was, but, you know, I got to make sure I stay focused on my goals that I had since I was young, you know? Sometimes you can't get mixed up in the limelight and all these, like, things come in my way. I need to stick to what I always was focused on and always had my mind set out to, so. The tournament last weekend didn't go your way, right? Yeah. Do you think that... I mean... I was just wondering

if you think the signing and the buzz and the hoopla was it a distraction. Do you wish that this came out after the tournament? Yeah. I mean, I don't like to make excuses I lost.

I mean, it's just how it goes in Jiu-Zitsu. I mean, we're competing every weekend and against the top guys in the world. You know, you're going to lose here and there. But it just happened, you know, and I had nothing to say about it. You know, he won and that's it.

But I would get him back of the world. How big is the... We've talked about how some people in Jiu Jitutu view you. Do you feel like that bullseye is even bigger now? Because you signed the Bell Tour deal, the attention is growing more and more. Like when you go back to these tournaments, do you feel like people view you and treat you differently? Yeah, let me tell you something. That arena was quiet the whole day.

And then when I got swept, there's two points against me. That whole place blew up. So I'm the only one that's making that shit exciting. So, I mean, just look at it. I literally got swept for two points and like the whole arena blew up. I didn't even hear anybody. I heard crickets the whole day. And then I hear like, you know,

So I'm the only one is bringing excitement to the matches. Yeah. So, I mean, that's, yeah, there definitely is a bulls up. Are you comfortable being that sort of heal, that bad guy? Yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm, like, it's just who I am. I mean, I'm not really trying to be anywhere, you know, so I'm just okay with it. And at end of the day, I'm not really being hell. I just tell the truth.

I just speak the truth, and that's it. And, you know, I'm not trying to be anything. I'm just, that's just how I am. I just save how I feel about some people and then they get upset about it. I mean, these guys in judozer are mad, but. I mean, at the end of the day, I'm bringing more attention to them because I want the guys in IB to have a name. I want them to be able to live the life of an elite athlete, you know.

And I think that jiu-jitsu athletes and, like, wrestlers or anything, they're the toughest athletes in the world. They're their most hardworking. They should be getting the same amount of respect and attention an NBA player and NFL player. And that's all I want to say. Like, I know on the last show, like people were saying, oh, Dylan's bragging about this.

He's bringing about that. It's not that. I'm just trying to bring attention to my sport. I want guys that are winning, you know, Pan Ams or worlds to be able to go and get that respect from the community, from, you know, to be able to just to live the life of elite, a professional athlete, you know, and like, no one treats us like that. You know, we work the hardest out of any sport, really.

I mean, like, when you see NFL players, NBA players, getting a lot of attention, I'm just trying to bring that to our sport. And so at the end of the day, I'm just trying to help my sport grow and I don't know why people are handing on that. Does it bother you when people say, like, I see this all the time on your, Instagram even when I tweet about you they're like oh he just tries to act like Connor he tries to be you know the Connor of jit-tutuz does that bother you I mean it doesn't it doesn't I mean you can

there's proof that I've been like this my whole life yeah there's videos before my connor's I mean by the end the day you know Connor's I like I like Connor I think he's a man so it's like it's not like a bad comparison sure but uh no I'm on my own path and and I do it in my own way and at the end the day people are just looking to hand on me for anything so that's how it is everybody wants to kind of put me down So they're just trying to say that or use something against me, but it's fine with me. You know, I block out the haters. I block out all the people who are trying to, you know, pray on my downfall.

I'm just training hard and doing what I have to do. And I just keep a tunnel vision on what's set for me, you know, I don't really give shit by anybody else or who's hating on me, who's saying, oh, Connor, this, kind of that. And then the day they hate me and Conner, so they're just trying to put, you know, so. Yeah. And so your team, as far as Jiu-Jitsu is concerned, you're part of Marcella Garcia's team, correct? Yes. MMA, is SBG your team? Like, would you, whenever your debut happens,

are you going to go to Dublin to train with the team there? Will John Kavanaugh be in your corner? Are you just a member of that team? Or are you going to try to do something local? So right now, like, I'm just doing, like, boxing at some gym and I'm doing Muay. I'm going to start doing Muayta with Phil Nurtain. Just here, because right now I'm still doing juditsu,

so I'm doing my striking here and there as far. But right now I'm still trying to focus mainly on Jiu-ZU. I haven't really done any striking, you know? That's another thing. Everybody's calling me out for a fight. Like, I need to be focused on it, you know? I need to be able to have my schedule set.

But I think most likely I'll be able to go to like two to three months in Ireland. Like I taught to John and Connor every day. Like I just have to make sure everything's right. And, you know, I'm thinking about maybe going back and forth in the beginning and then just see how I like it, to see how it is. You know, I have a really good relationship with all those guys there. So it's an easy transition. You know? I know that you've only done it, you know, just a just a few times.

but as far as striking is concerned, because that's not the world that you come from. Your whole life has been on the mat. Do you feel comfortable, or do you think it's going to take some time? Not only with throwing strikes, but getting hit as well in the face. I'm pretty good with that.

I mean, I've been doing it here and there since I was a kid, so I'm aware with the shots. I'm aware with the strikes. It doesn't bother me. I have a big head. I can take a shot. So, I mean, you know, like, yeah, I'm comfortable with it. I'm getting more comfortable, too,

with the boxing and everything, man. I would say I'm confident in my hands, but obviously it's going to take time. And, you know, I'm just doing what I have to do. Everything is coming into place nicely. I'm just taking my time, doing what I have to do, focus. And that's it. Did you think that all this would happen to at such a young age, like, you know, having the number two promotion in the world right now, acquire your services before you're

even ready to start training full time in MMA and all the attention. Did you plan on this happening? or is this surprising you a little bit as well? Man, I always planned out this as I was a kid. I remember being in the gym training three times a day and like suffering in class, you know, like, and I just, and I knew that it was all going to pay off. And I just saw it.

I didn't know how, I didn't know how fast it would come, but I always knew that I was destined for greatness, you know, and I just, since I was a kid, I kept my head down, I never said anything and I just worked my ass off, knowing that one day this will happen, and I, you know, I saw it and it came true. I mean, it did come a little bit faster, and I thought, but it is what it is, and I'm ready for it, and I work my ass all for it, so I feel that I deserve it.

What weight will you compete in? I'm thinking starting 170 and then maybe going down to 155. Okay. Who knows? I can go right into 155. I'm going to have to talk to George Lockhart. I want to use a nutritionist and do it right, but I think 170 or 155, either one. I had to decide.

And in your mind, I mean, how far away are you from, and I know this might be a crazy question, but you are very close. confident guy, in your mind, like, how long will it take for you to be in that title picture? Man, I don't know. I mean, I want to, I want to go for that title, obviously, but I'm going to listen to my coaches and I want to be smart with this, you know, I'm going to, whatever they say, you know. Yeah. I do, I mean, obviously, for me, I could fight, I want to fight that first fight against the title, but I'm going to listen to my coaches and all the people have around me.

It's, there's no reason I'm young. I'm 23 years old. I'm just starting in this. There's no reason to be stupid with it. I have a bright future ahead of me. I need to listen to my coaches and do everything right. And then I'll take out every one of those motherfuckers. I love it.

By the way, I saw a photo of you and Connor shopping last weekend. How much are we dropping in an outing like this? Can you give us a ballpark? Like five figures probably. Depends on the shop, you know? Combined? Yeah. Well, yeah.

You know, it's around there. Wow. I don't know where we're going, though. That's impressive. That's a nice question. That is impressive. And by the way, say it again?

You cut out, you cut out. No, no, no. Don't take it back. Hold on, I see. Can you see me? Yeah, yeah, I could see you just fine. It's just I was speaking at the same time, so it cut out. I said I was spending all the other guys' belts or contracts.

In UFC contracts. Sure, sure. Highs paid fighter. It's in the UFC, so. Really? Really? you know that I think so I mean but we're going to see you know I mean

this is just the beginning I'm planning to make a lot of money and this is this is just a start by the way are we and again I don't mean to pride but I saw a photo so it led to this question are we spoken for right now what what's the the dating scene like for you because I saw there was a photo where I think one of the Sports Illustrated models where you were wearing her shirt or she was wearing your shirt what was going on there what's happening

yeah she was wearing my shirt yeah yeah that's big time what's that good life I live. It's a good life. I mean, yeah, it's a good life.

That's all I have to say, you know? What's her name? Mia Kane. Yeah, and she trains, right? I saw that she does

like Muay Thai. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, she's a Thai boss and she's a model. So, yeah, she's cool.

She's a badass girl. So she's training you and striking for your debut. Yeah, and I teach her a little bit of gizzi, you know. But you're, but to,

to be like, to be on the record here, you're not, you're not exclusive. No, no, no, we're just, you know, wow, friends, just doing our thing. You know, I'm young, I'm 23 years old. Sure. It's good to be Dylan Dennis.

He's living my life. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, wow. All right, well, so, to reiterate, you're not going to fight an MSG, that ship has sailed. You're going to focus, right, on September, and then we're going to focus on MMA. Unless we use this as leverage,

and then they put me on the pay-review. Oh, okay, all right. So Bellator show you the money. I mean, come on. The Cheta makes it better. You want some pay-per-view points. You want to be on the pay-per-view. You're the draw. You're MSG.

Yeah. Come on. Yeah. I mean... Did you talk to Chelle yet? No, he's coming up next. Oh, okay. Right.

Okay. Do you want to say something to him? No, he's going to say something. And then I thought he was before me, so I was in a library and all what he said. But I guess you guys will hear first from him. Oh, wow. Cheil was some news? Yeah, there's a big.

grappling match and the main event in his submission underground you versus John Jones is it happening? We'll see it he's going to announce it maybe oh my a main fighter though he fought for the title

in the UFC wow okay so we'll ask you about that and by the way we saw Connor walk out McConlin will he walk you out for your debut I don't know how I'd talk him about that but maybe I don't know if he wants to walk out for Belator who knows I don't know how that works for the US why not like that but

You can corner whoever he wants. Oh, no. Yeah, I'll talk to him about. Who knows? Okay. We'll see, maybe. I would think most likely he would if he's not busy, you know? It would be nice.

I know he's having the kids too. Sure. I don't want to, you know, he's a lot on his plate. I don't want to bother him with the. Yeah, but if. Maybe he will, you know, he's a good. But if you fight later on this year, like September, October, the kid will already be born. Everything will be okay, right?

Yeah, 100%. What role will you play in the camp? What's that? I want to go on record, too. and then he's in a knockout maybe with it. Okay, well, that was my last question. What role are you going to play in that training camp? It'll be the main sparring boxing partner.

You'll be the hype man. No, honestly, for that camp, I actually talked to him about it. I want to be around it and just watch kind of from the outside and do the drills and stuff just because it'd be cool for me, to be in a straight boxing camp. I think it would be good for me because that's obviously my weak point. I have talked to him about that, and he said that would be cool.

And, yeah, that's one thing I have been thinking about. But yeah, I just want to say that he's going to knock him out cold I think he'll, everybody's putting, like, everybody's running him off, but I say that he knocks him out. What round? Hmm. That's a hard one. I would say, I'll say before the fifth.

Is that how he was boxing, what they got 12 and boxing? Yeah, they got 12. Yeah, I think before the fifth. And I've seen him spar with high-level boxers, man. I've seen him at first hand, so I think he knocks him out cold. All right. You heard it here first. Dylan, keep it up.

Keep doing your thing. Screw the haters Thank you for having me, Ariel. Yeah, it's a pleasure as always. And I look forward to your debut whenever it comes. I have a feeling we'll be talking before them. And by the way, come in studio. You're in New York.

Come visit us in studio one day. Hopefully like that. I told you I want to come to studio and then you can do it. Before your debut, I'll reserve the seat for you, all right? Sounds good. All right, there he is. Dylan Dennis, we appreciate his time. Great stuff, as always, from him.

You heard it there. First, highest paid fighter in Bellator, Dylan Danis. Wow. Who would have thought? All right. Well, you heard him talk about Chale. I believe Chale is actually in the building. Is that true?

We have a new camera in our green room. Where is it? Where is it? Is Chale there? We see his legs. I think that's Chale. See someone's legs. All right.

I think that's a sign that someone's there. So let's reconfigure the studio. Let's invite Chale in. We're going to talk a lot to Chale's son. And we've got a lot of things to talk about. We've got the Van der Le Silva fight. everything that's going on in his life. There's a lot, and it's the first time that he's ever been in studio.

This is very exciting. So let's reconfigure the studio, bring him in. While we do that, let's take a look back at July 1st, 2011. One of my more, I guess, memorable interviews with Mr. Chal Sondon after he was cleared from the California State Athletic Commission, had that sit down. Remember, it's good to be seen. The bus, the carrot, Vandale Silva. It all ties into today.

So here's that conversation from what? six years ago and then we'll be joined in studio by chale p sunnen himself don't go anywhere chel sunen it's good to see you it's good to be seen it's been a while yeah yeah uh i feel like i'm almost uh seeing sasquatch here you're like this mythical creature chel sunnan returning it's almost fitting that you're back in the line light it's a ufc weekend and uh you just receive some good news because you are free to fight yeah that is correct the suspension has been lifted I had a suspension, I got another suspension, and all the suspensions, all the red tape is in the past. It's all behind me.

Does it feel as though a weight has been lifted off your shoulders here? If you're a professional athlete, you don't have the right to complain about anything. You know, and I hear these guys come out and they're crying and they're whining, and it's poor me. And I've always thought, what a wonderful world you must live in if that is a big deal. You know, with all the things that are going on and the adversity that a person has to face, and you've got to learn to deal with that stuff. And, you know, just because you get a little negative press, so you end up in a little red tape here there,

you've got to know how to deal with that. If you're going to get anything done in this world, I can't imagine. I mean, I watch just average folks have bigger problems with a day being a good husband or being a good father. Look, I'm a professional athlete. I'm not entitled to do that. I have an opportunity to do it. It's a luxury, and nobody owes that to me,

and I've never felt like a victim in this whole thing. It was a nuisance, but that's where it ends. You say it's a luxury, though, but was there a point where you thought you might never get a shot to fight again, another shot, because it seemed as though for a while one thing after the next was piling on you? Yeah, well, yeah, probably.

You know, it's hard to completely remember all the different emotions that you go through, or you get a call one day that says one thing and it makes you think, well, it looks like it's the end of the line. And then understanding the rules is tough too. Somebody tells you you're suspended. You get information from one state. You trust that, and then you learn, I'll, that's not exactly right.

Or maybe that was relayed to me wrong. Maybe I interpreted it wrong. So the rules and the process constantly changes, and so does your mentality. So, yeah, there was times where I thought, well, this might be the end of the road. It was up and down and that was probably the hardest part with the emotional because it was high and it was low and it was so drastic There was nothing ever steady about it. You know? It was either oh man, I got some really good news say oh wow did I get some bad news

Your name has obviously been in the news this week because your suspension Expired and you're free to fight also came in the news because people started to link your story to that of Nate Marquart's because testosterone replacement therapy came up and you were kind of the first fighter where this really came up and we started to learn more about it. What's your take if you have any on what happened to Nate Marquart with him getting released and suspended and whatnot in Pennsylvania? Well, you know, let me preface any statement I make with two things. First off, all I can really do is kind of guess to say, well, this is what I think, because I don't actually know.

And secondly, to say, Nate is a very good guy. Behind everything you see, he's a good guy. He loves his family, he's good to his wife. If he tells you something, you can trust him. He's a good, nice, kind person. And all I know about it is what I saw on your show. And I think that Nate was very forthcoming and honest. I think it's important to understand Nate did not break any rules.

he did not fight with an illegal substance or a banned substance of any kind. At the same time, I left that interview thinking, okay, Nate, I believe you. I believe everything you just said. I also think there's a couple of things you haven't said. I don't know that. But from my own opinion, from my office watching that on my laptop, I, I, I, I, I, I thought there was a couple of things that probably still haven't come out. One last thing on this.

Are people, are fighters abusing TRT in your opinion? Are there people who are, because you've talked about it, that this is a medical condition, you need this. Are there people in your opinion in this sport and in sports in general who are abusing this and using this as a PED? I can tell you the frustration I have with mine is when you look at the rules and you say, okay, I'm a rule guy, I'm a rule follower, I'm gonna follow this rule. rule. Here's what I need to do if I'm going to be on this medication. So you come forward and you,

you start the big fire. You wave the big flag, you show everything. This is what I'm doing. Then they use that against you. That's where it becomes very frustrating. I think because of that, there's a lot of guys that are going, hey, listen, I'm going to do this. I'm just not going to come forward like Chale did. I'm not going to, I'm not going to do it correctly. I'm going to hide it because these guys at the commission are going to punish me. They're going to use it against me. And so I think I'll leave it at that, but I think that, you know, if the commissions don't like the rule, then please, by all means, change the rule.

But don't allow somebody to do something and then turn the gun on them and say, you did this and you shut it up. I'm going, well, wait a minute, you've said that I could. It's right there in your rules. So I think that makes it tough. UFC 132 is this Saturday night. The co-main event features Chris Lieben versus Vanderle-Silva, both those fighters fighting your way class,

and of course you have had your issues with Vanderlai over the past year. Is that the fight now that you're a free man that you really have your eye on in terms of what's next for you? You know, for media attention, but not for reality. Vandale's never in a million years going to sign Fight Me. I don't think he beats Chris Leibbon tomorrow. Look, Van der Leyen-Silva has the worst record in the history of the UFC. Not just Zufa-owned.

Take it back to the SCG days. There has never been a fighter to have two wins and seven losses and to stay employed in this company. I believe he will be two and eight tomorrow night. So I can't imagine how he could get on the docket with me. So, no, I don't think Vandal and I's paths are going to cross. who we spoke to Vandalee on Wednesday, and we asked him about you,

and he said that, obviously, not a big fan of yours, he said that he wants you next, and when you do meet, his quote was, he will kill you and he will kill you fast. I'm wondering if you saw that interview, and what do you think of him saying that? Vandalay, you are an immigrant from Brazil. I am a gangster from America.

Are you sure you want to play that game with me? Listen, Vandale, I will do a home invasion on you. I will cut the power to your house, and the next thing you hear will be me climbing up your stairs in a pair of night vision goggles I bought in the back of Soldier Fortune magazine. I'll pick the lock to the master's door. Take a picture of you in bed with the Nogara brothers working on your Jujitsu. I'll take said photograph posted at www. dorks from Brazil.com. Password.

Not required. Username. Not required. That vandalay is how you threaten somebody. Dummy. And what a segue that is. Unbelievable. We could not have timed at any better.

There he is. Wow. For the first time. What kind of a break was that, Helwani? My goodness. What do you do? 20 minutes there? Well, there's a lot to reconfigure here.

As you can see, it looks completely different. We're now sitting side by side. It's a different configuration. Yeah. What do you think? Go ahead. I'll quit interrupting. No, no.

I mean, I can't believe how things timed out there. That was kind of the first time that you ever sort of threw a grenade in the direction of one Vandrelai Silva. Now here you are about to fight him at MSG of all places. Look at that. Are you coming? I will be there. MSG stands for Madison Square Garden.

That's right. You've heard of it? Yes. It's in New York. It's in New York. That's what they say. How can you possibly prove it's the most famous area? What do you take a poll of somebody?

You've gone to Tokyo and ask them that they, come on. So here you are. Westland High School. I will, more people know about Westland High School. So you are unimpressed with the fact that you're fighting MSG. It could have been anywhere. Listen, honestly, yes. but you don't want to sound like that.

I mean, that's anticlimatic. You don't want to sound like a dick about it. But it's like, well, what do I care where they put the fight at? I mean, at some point, they're going to set up a cage and we're going to walk out there and we're going to fight. So I certainly don't want to downplay and take away from my own esteem of getting a headline the garden. But as to where the fight happens, yeah, man, they could do it wherever they want. Only two other people in the history of this great sport of headline MSG. And it just happened.

Is that right? Well, yeah. Because we just got in here. Yeah. Connor and Eddie Alvarez. Connor and Eddie. Oh, that's the two people. One two.

That's right. Usually they take two to tango, you know. That's right. And yeah, I apologize. They just box there a week ago. Triple G. Triple G box there. I guess it was awesome.

It was a good venue. Yeah. Paperview flop. 170, but did you go to it? I didn't go. I heard it was great. I just met a gal with a sports illustrator named Maggie. She was there.

She said it was a scene, man. Yeah. She's great. She's smart. Yeah. She knew the sport. Right. You deal with people and so do I.

That are reporters and they cover it. And in five minutes in, you go, oh, you've never seen this. Oh, you don't know my name's Chale. Oh, that's embarrassing. I call you kale or something. All the time, and you just roll with it and it sucks. She knew what was up. She knew what time it was for sure.

Are you feeling a buzz for this? I mean, look, we could talk about whether it's the world's most famous or not. This kind of came out of left field. I don't think anyone thought A, Bell Tour was getting back in the pay-per-view business just yet, and B, they were going to MSG. It's expensive to run MSG. You know that, as a promoter, right? I mean, this thing costs a lot of money.

Were you surprised when they told you this was our plan for the fight? Yes, on both. In fact, so here's what I got. You always wonder how Bellator keeps this. I tried to share this with you privately, but I think you thought I was working you. Sure. The way Bellator keeps the secret, by example, Mitreone versus Fador, nobody knew till they walked the ramp. Now, I can tell you nobody knew they were going to fight because I was on the broadcast team live on television and I did not know until Mitrione and then Fador walked the rampant what was going to happen. I fought Tito. The night I fought Tito, King Moe and Rampage walked out and did a spot to build up their fight. I've been hanging out with King Moe all week. I said,

Why didn't you tell me you're fighting rampage? That's a big deal for me. He said, man, I didn't know. And this was the same thing that happened with Fader. They had them sign a blank contract. It's how they keep a secret. So they did that with me. It said New York.

It said, 205 pounds. And that was it said June 24th. Didn't tell me who the opponent was. I didn't know it was the garden. And I signed it. I came out of practice. And Luke Thomas had sent me a text. Apparently Bellator broke the news.

And he said, hey, can you come on and talk about your fight with Vandalay? And I said, am I fighting Vandale? So that's how it stayed a secret. And then I didn't know it was the guard. I thought that was a big deal. I was a big deal that they came in, book the guard. Paper view,

always a big deal. And yeah, it's been a good energy, man. People are pumped about it. But Bellator's been doing that. I'm brand new with Beltor. Came in in in November. First show I did was a commentator.

I did it in the Mohegan Sun. Second show I did was San Jose. So opposite sides of the country. Sold out the Mohegan Sun for Phil Davis main event. Sold out in San Jose on the West Coast to watch Chandler fight. So yeah, man, they're gaining steam. Okay, so we have a lot to talk about. and I've been waiting to talk to you.

I was waiting for the right opportunity, and I'm glad that we're doing it in person. Before I get into everything, I don't want to forget because we're going to get on a roll here. Dylan Dennis mentioned that you had some breaking news regarding him. So can you tell us just so we're still on that thread? What is the breaking news? Submission Underground 4 is going to be May 14th, live at flow.

Flow combat, to be exact. That site's still around? I'm kidding. That site's kicking ass, man. Dylan Danis is going to be taking on none other than Jake Shields in the main event. Co-main event will be Apollo Meow.

He is going to be taken on the California kid, your eye favor. Whoa. Plenty more matches on that card. Nathan Orchard, Perez. We got more matches to announce,

but the main and co-main, yes, Dylan versus Jake. I'd like to say this about Dylan because he does rub some people the wrong way. I will just tell you, behind the scenes, that dude is the real deal. He will come on and talk tough,

behind the scenes. He will sign the contract and do the heavy lifting. And I cannot say about everybody from where. I have been so disappointed with grapplers. The biggest bunch of wusses I've ever met. I thought fighters were a bunch of wusses.

The grappling community is the biggest, fakedest bunch of tough guys I've ever met and you cannot get any one of those cowards to do anything that involves putting their reputation on the line. Dylan Danis will do it against anybody at any weight. Did you try to do him versus John Jones? No, we never tried that. Now, he wanted that.

He wanted that match. Gordon Ryan, Gary Tona both wanted that match. And John was all for it. John didn't have a problem, but no, we were never behind it. We did try to do Mitrione and John Jones, and that may still happen down the road, but you saw what happened with Mitrione. Sure. No, we did not try to do it.

But he did. He was on board. So the last time we spoke was the week of your fight against Tito Ortiz. So you had yet to really go through a full Beltor fight week as a fighter. Being in the UFC for so long, in hindsight, what was it like? Were you impressed? Are there still some things they have to work out? Is it a well-oiled machine?

I mean, just that experience of going through. the entire fight week. What was that like for you? Changing scenery after all those years with the UFC? So you actually asked me a question that I didn't think you, I thought you were going to ask me about my own preparation. However, as far, yes, it's a very well-oiled machine. Like as far as being in the back, you know right where your cues are, you've got your room, your locker room. Commissions largely run that. They just kind of tell you, Bellator just kind of tells you when to walk. It's great. So many people ask me the differences between Bellator and the U.S. And it's a really hard question because, Errol, there's so many similarities. You know, don't forget,

Scott Coker. Scott Coker, when they bought Strike Force, and Dana brought it, and Dana's the mastermind of this whole sport, right? Nobody knows more than Dana. Dana saw a problem right out of the gate, and he did his best to put Coker on the shelf because he knew, look, there's no reason to smarten this guy up. This guy's already a smart guy. He's only got X amount a month non-compete. We're going to be seeing him again. That's a tremendous compliment. Dana knew there's no reason to make this guy any wiser than he already is. So, I mean, he really knows the game. He has a lot of similar. employees, he's got his own team around it, but they have traded a little bit. And I just saw more similarities than I did differences. Really? Yeah. Okay. So you enjoyed it. You had no issues.

Yeah, that's right. Did it feel like it was your first day at school? So, you know, like the new people, new faces? A little bit. Were you a little more nervous? Yeah, that's right. Yeah, a little bit. And I don't do first day at school any better than anybody else.

I can remember going into ESPN for my first day. You know, I don't have any friends and who to talk to it. And I still experience that even as an adult. And so, yeah, there was a little bit of that at Bellator, but it is smaller. so it's easier to meet people quickly, make name and recognition and shake hands. So, yeah, man, I feel like I've always been at Bellator now. I mean, it's only been four or five months, but I don't remember any different. I remember saying on the Monday after that fight, perhaps in hindsight, we put a little too much pressure on you.

We forgot that you had not fought in four years. We forgot that you were fighting for a new promotion. We forgot that, you know, you had been through a lot, you know, both personally and professionally, Fox, ESPN, things with your family. there was a lot of stuff on your shoulders in your mind going into that fight. This is sort of trying to make sense of what happened in there against T.R.T's. I mean, I'm not trying to give you an out or make you say any excuses, but did we expect a little too much after such a long layoff? I don't think so. Ring rust was a real thing.

And I didn't know anything about that. I denied it. I've heard other fighters deny it. And then when they come through it, they go, oh, my goodness. Can you do me fair? Can you put your phone? because it's like right on your thing and I'm like thinking of testicular cancer. I'm sorry here.

It's making me very nervous. Really? I appreciate you thinking of me. I'm worried about you. We don't want my testicles to get cancer, do we? Did you put, yes, thank you, thank you. Appreciate that. So let's see here.

So yeah, the ring was just a real thing. I didn't know anything about it. I denied it, but it is a different speed. Tito sucks. I mean, Tito's so bad. And when you lose to a guy, then you suck. That's the way it works, man. I wouldn't put that guy down without putting myself down.

Tito is the worst fighter I've ever fought. but now that makes me the worst fighter. And I just didn't know that about myself. I had good rounds in practice, and you get a little bit older. And I have it done it. And the second that fight ended, I was like, oh, my goodness, just please, I need another chance. I get, now I know all the things that I forgot and all the things that I took for granted. I tried to fight Fador a couple of weeks after that.

And it didn't have anything to do with Fader. I was trying to help the company to save the show and those type things. But I wanted in there so bad. It's like, oh, wait a minute. It all came back to me. I was walking in the back after Tito. And I'm going, you know, that guy, he was so bad. bad. And it just came back. I don't really know how to say it that. I don't know if that's a

great example, but that was my experience. And I don't think there was too much on me. It was a good spot. And don't forget, it was three rounds. That's a fair thing to ask of a guy. Got to headline the show, which added to my motivation. So I don't think anybody put too much on me. It's just the reality is that that's where I was at. Do you still feel like he sucks? Oh, Tito's terrible. And yeah, Tito was absolutely terrible. I was in the fight with him. And that fight ended, and some people said it was a fixed fight to use that term. And it's like, guy, I don't know how else to, when you fight so poorly that some people can't imagine you fought that poorly, they think it has to be fit. That's not good.

On some hands, it's funny. We can sit here and laugh about it, but that's how bad it was. And there was one situation with Tito where he yelled tap and I let go. And if you watch a video, it like shows his hand. I didn't think his hand was tapping, but like some kids could. could break it. His hand did this, but I just have to say, in fairness, this doesn't always mean tap. Sometimes this can mean other things.

You've seen D.S. slap a guy. You know, every time your hand does this, it doesn't mean tap. However, that also does mean tap. So that was taken a little bit out of proportion, and I thought that it took away from Tito's win. I didn't think that was right. I thought that, hey, listen, he won. That's just the way it goes.

And you got to give a guy. If a guy has, because I've had that go both ways to do, I've been in fights or wrestling matches where the other guy was better. I knew he was better. but I won. But it's my night. You've got to give me my night. Goes both ways.

Was that weird though for you and maybe weird is putting it kindly, like when you have actual colleagues, other fighters, Dan Hardy, saying that this looked like a choreograph fight and fans just throwing, this was fake, this was fake. I mean, that's kind of an insult, right? Oh, I have to think so. But again, you got to understand it. If you're being very candid about it, if your performance is so bad that there is no other explanation and somebody just goes, I mean, that's what happened.

You want to hear something on the other side. of it. I have been in intellectual conversations with smart people, people like you, about John Jones, where you're trying to explain how we're so good. And I can't make sense of it. It's not because these experiences. It's not because he's worked so hard or paid some price. And I have had people tell me he was just chosen by God. God has just decided to make, and I've accepted it. I've been like, yeah, that's what it is. And I go, no, wait a second. God doesn't care who's winning a fight. But I have no other explanation for why he's so great. So I'm using the other end of the spectrum. but I have defaulted to divine intervention.

Huh. Yeah. Because sometimes you can't explain it. Sometimes you go, look, I'm watching the same video as you are. I see what you're seeing. That's not what happened, but I get it. Was that the lowest moment of your career as far as athletically? I mean, you've lost to some of the greatest ever.

But considering how low you think of his skills. Yeah. So I'm a performance guy. I'm not an outcome guy. Like when I sit and I think about it or have my proud moments, it's where did I perform well? And then if the outcome took care of itself, great, good for me. Or from a wrestling perspective, if I had more points than the other guy than good for me.

But some of my best wrestling matches, I lost them. But boy, I was proud of those. I had really good performance. Then you try to trace it backwards and go, okay, what happened? What did I have for breakfast that day? How much did I sleep the night before? Was there some song I listened to? Why did I have such a good performance?

And if you ever lose a match, but you went out and you really performed, well, you can sleep easy at night. When you don't bring your skills, it's very tough. And so intrinsically, that's just what I dealt with. where I went, oh my goodness, you know, I worked so hard for this. I was prepared at great coaches and great partners. But you got to go out there and perform and it's so important to do. And I think of myself as a performance guy, sometimes where I haven't felt good, but I've stepped up and I'm proud of that. And when you go out and you step down, yeah, man, you do some soul searching because you don't want it to happen again. It's very, it's very embarrassing and it's a letdown,

not just to you or to your fans, but your coaches. You know, my coach has put in a lot of time with me for very little thanks. And I do feel that I owe it to them. I owe them a performance. I owe them a And we don't give it to them. There's nothing you can do, Aero. You just walk away and you try again. So like with that line of thinking in mind, would the first Anderson Silva fight be one of your favorite fights because the performance was great? You fell just short.

It was one of your finest. I mean, I appreciate you saying that. Is that not? That might be a good example. Here's the reason I can't answer your question. I never watched that fight. I remember coming out of the ring that night and the first person that intercepted me was Joe Silva. And I just thought it was such a boring fight.

said to Joe, I'm sorry. And I'm never the guy that goes, oh, sorry, so you pat him on the back. And go, no, you did a really good job. I thought it was just a slow-paced, boring fight. I did not know until the reception that people gave. They gave me fight of that night that night. They brought it into the locker room. That's how they used to do it. And this guy comes up and he says, Lorenza and Dana want you to have this fight of the night. I thought that's a consolation prize. That was a terrible fight. And then other people told me, how great, including later, so thank you for bringing it up. But I just didn't know in the moment. You don't really know. I didn't know how bad the Tito fight.

I didn't know any of that until it was after the fact that I didn't go back and and watch that match. I have a hard time rewatch the matches, but... You've never watched Anderson fight once. I never watched it now. On like a slow day, let me just see this. No, and it was 99% in your favor. Yeah, thanks.

And when I got ready to fight him the second time, the UFC as part of their marketing made me sit down and watch that fight and then give an analysis and I couldn't do it. I tried so hard. And I think it's a weakness. I don't think it's a good thing. I think you can get better by watching your, to win or lose. I think it's a good thing to sit down, use that technology, get with a coach, take some notes, and get better. I think it's a weakness of mine. But either way, I can't

rewatch. Man, I get nervous. My hands get sweat. That particular way. The fight are all your losses? Any match. I've never seen a win or a loss. I don't rewatch them. Yeah, including with wrestling. Yeah, which you would think with today's technology, I mean, game film is a really, a really strong thing, but I can't do it. Even your finest hour. Yeah, my finest hour. Yeah, my finest hour. Mark Ward or Dan Miller, one of these guys. Yeah, yeah, that's right. I can't go back and rewatch him.

I'll even get asked about him. What happened to this fight and say, I'll always give an answer, but in my heart, I don't know, man, I can't remember him. What was going through your mind when he's, like, celebrating his son's there and he's going all crazy? Anderson? No, no, no, Titor-R-Tis.

Considering how you feel about him as a human being, was that tough to just be in the cage for all of that? Yeah, he, well, you got to understand. He yelled tap, and that's hard. I let the position go. he verbally tapped. Yeah, and my coaches even said, well, you don't stop until the referee steps in.

It's like, man, I understand that. I'm not going to give a guy any more mercy than somebody else. But there is still some rules. You know, when a guy says stop, it's one of the only codes we go by. So I don't know that I want to do that again. It's like, if a guy says stop, you stop. And you got to understand, Tito has a bad neck.

In real life, Tito is a bad neck. I want to beat Tito that night. I do not like Tito. I don't want him to have a bad life. I don't want him to go on with a bad neck. I just don't. So I don't know that I would do that any different. When he did that with his kid, I got the whole thing.

I would have done the same thing. And you take it and it goes on. When we got into the back and he was still a jerk about it, that confused me. It's like, Tito, you're terrible. I'm the name that's going to move this company forward. You've got to pass the torch. You know, if you're choosing to step aside, either way, I move forward and so does the brand. And so there's an etiquette you have to do there.

To be a dick in the back after you. You suck and you beat me. I mean, come on. This is a bad feeling for me. I beat you when we were kids in 40 seconds. I never brought it up, let alone rubbed it in after the fact. I thought that that was very bizarre. He then demanded I apologize to him at the press conference.

And it's like, Tito, you yell tap, I let go. I physically tapped and you didn't let go. You know, if that would have been my knee, you remember Paul Horace situations or an arm or something like, you really could have injured me. and I let go to not injure you, I was tapping and you didn't let go. The commission would sanction him. They would fine him if he wasn't retiring. I told the commission, we're good, man. Things were said, there's some heat here.

We're good. And fortunately, because it was a choke and everything ends well, but it's like, Tito, we don't have very many rules, but we have to follow that one. When a guy says, I've had enough, man, he's had enough. Are you surprised that Big John, if you heard him say tap, that he didn't stop it? I mean, of all people. No. Well, so here's the thing.

fairness to the story because I'm saying he said tap, but in fairness, Tito says I did not say tap. Tito said, I said, I'm fine. But he could be telling the truth. You know, if you want to be real honest about it, Tito could be telling the truth. He might have said, I'm fine. I thought he said tap. Okay. I thought he said tap twice. I thought he said tap tap. He's saying he said, I'm fine. It's the same amount of syllables. It's my opinion versus his, and I'm not calling him a liar on it. I'm just telling you what I thought happened. So I let the position go. And a lot of people saw it on TV and it was the same time that he was doing this motion. So they thought he was

signaling to me. This is all conspiracy theory but you and I like conspiracies, right? So let's visit on it. They thought this was a signal to me to let the move go and it's like, man, you're close. I let the move go because he tapped. And last thing on the fight in particular, that choke that you tapped to, is that

something that you tap to usually? So the rear naked choke so I can't totally remember the position but I remember yeah, not being able to breathe. It looked like your face was turning red. Yeah, it was, I did not think he had the position. Yeah.

And I remember not respecting, you could, there's some things you can do, some basic hand fighting, some place you can put your elbow, try to turn on top. And I remember not respecting the position and just thinking he doesn't have it. I was right. He didn't have it until he did. And I remember, I remember that moment going, oh my goodness, I'm going to have to tap. I was like, please, I'm going out. Considering how big of a signing you were for Beltron, we talked about this on the Monday,

before, you know, ratings and things like that, you want to give them back something, right? I mean, you want to prove to them that it was worth their while to sign you. When you got home, that Monday, West Lynn, were you feeling like, man, I let them down? Did that, did that thought cross your mind? Yeah. Yeah, it did for me. And how did you cope with that? Well, so here's the only thing I know to do.

And I've had my ups and downs. And as you've been friends a long time. And one thing we both do, we move forward. And it's the only thing you can do. You have a really good day. You have to move forward. I've seen guys, and I've been guilty of it, of being high on life and everything's going great.

And you miss a step. You don't show up one day. You relax a little bit. You rest on your laws. You get comfortable. And then that dip comes. You know, it's a law of life. Whatever goes up must come down.

And some people don't know how to deal with that. But the downs are the same thing. You get up the next day. You put your boots on and you move forward. And, but I do hear your point that. that yeah man I had I had plans and visions in a way I was going to do it and when that stuff gets you know when you have a bad moment you got to say hey let me go you got to start over sometimes yeah and it was hard particularly uh particularly for me just because because of how I look at Tito

I look at him like he sucks so when you lose to a guy who said you got to face it that then I suck things have to change I got things have got to change uh you know you beat a guy that's a champion of the world you got to say I'm the best fighter in the world but it you get the booby prize the And numbers why, I mean, look, it was great. We did record numbers. We beat other promotions and everybody. We sold out a huge arena. So as far as them getting their bang for their buck for CHLP, yes, I came through. But on what I wanted to deliver, and I'm a company guy. You know, if you're going to give me $5 million, but I can make you $10, I want to make you $20. And I'm not going to ask for a penny more. I want Koker in these guys that are taking these risks

in the investment. I want them to clean up. But that's just a different mentality. I'm a company guy. So you say something has to change? What is going to change? Yeah, well, I mean, I went crazy. As soon as I lost that fight, I went, I went crazy, training-wise. And, you know, to go back to the night I tried to fight Fador, I was just ready. I was ready mentally. I was resi-physically.

I went absolutely crazy. I lost a Tito on a Saturday. It was a Saturday night card. I was training hard on Monday, two a days on Monday. Wow. And, you know, that's actually something I learned as an example from Randy Couture. Randy Couture, good day or bad day, would be in the practice room on Monday. And I've always followed that.

But much like Randy, maybe my intensity would be down. I'd be there, but maybe I wasn't working as hard as the other guys. I was in two days every day and just buckled down, you know, because you don't want those things to happen again. And there is no way to fix it. Errol, I can sit here and tell you, I'm training so hard and blah, blah, blah. That doesn't mean you're going to win the next one, but you put yourself in the position to. You do everything you can to create an environment so that you can be successful. And then you look at the scoreboards and one guy's got more points.

and the other guy. Was part of the reason why you wanted to take that Fador fight on hours notice because you wanted to sort of pay them back? You know, you wanted to make good on what happened January 21st in Inglewood, California. Like, did you feel, okay, I need to do something to save this show? That's right. I think that's fair. So, I mean, a little bit was to pay them back. I mean, listen, at the end of the day, it penciled.

Okay, everybody did great. But, yeah, I'm part of the company. The company needs a main event. I'm here. I'm here. I'm licensed. I'm healthy. Yeah, so I just thought it made sense. I didn't understand why other people didn't want that fight or what it had. I've never understood that though, man. I know some guys that say they want to be fighters, but when it's like those grappling wussies I'm telling you about, man, they all want to be tough guys with their geese on and get on the magazines and tell somebody offers them a match. And then, you know, they're the last guy that wants to go out there to compete. That's okay, but that's not me, man. How close did it get? The Fador fight. I went to bed thinking I was fighting Fador.

The night before. Yeah, I didn't go to bed until about 1215, I got out of a meeting with Bellator. And I left that meeting thinking I was going to fight. Now, they did not tell me I had the fight. It's just things were lining up, and I was the only guy there if Mitch Rohn couldn't go. So a lot of that I had created on my own, but it was still my thought. I woke up the next day, and they said, look, this is Mitch Rion's fight until he pulls out. And he has not pulled out.

He was right on the verge. And Matt was telling me, I'm going to get this 95% right. So he had the kidney stone, but it had moved. And he could either pass it and he could fight or it could fall back into his kidney. It'd be terribly painful, but he could fight. The state he was in, he was, there was like a, he was paralyzed, essentially. He could not move. He couldn't get up.

And then it was the next morning that like 2 or 3 a.m. It passed and all would have been well, but he missed the, he missed the bell. So coincidentally, he's fighting Fador co-main event of this card against Van der Le Silva. your headlining at MSG on on June 24th, is there any I don't know, for lack of a better word, fear, doubt in your mind that for whatever reason this fight doesn't come to fruition that Vandalee,

I mean, we've been teased about this fight before, right? With Vandalene, I can't imagine it. I can't imagine it not happen. I do not like Vandalay. I'm not a Vandalay defender, but if I was to be fair about his career aerial, I can't remember a fight he's ever pulled out of. I can't remember him doing that.

If he has, I just can't remember. recently with Miracle Kroko. With Kroka? Was that fight signed? Because I read they were going to fight on like New Year's. Yeah, that was a little bit weird. But to your point, just recently, he did have something with Kroka. I don't know if that was ever signed.

But I don't remember him bailing out. I just don't remember it could happen. I don't like the guy, but I also don't acknowledge that he's a chicken. I think he's a guy that goes out there and fights. And I'll definitely be there. This dates back many years. I mean, we showed that clip from 2011. Why don't you like him?

What is it about Van der Leight that you do not like? We just could never get it right. And I can't really remember where it started. I remember the first time I ever saw Vandalay Silva. When was that? He walked into Randy Couture's gym. I was in there sparring. How long ago?

No mouthpiece. So I was getting ready to fight Polo Filo. Oh, wow. Yeah. And I don't remember when that was, but first or second? Okay. First or the second. Just trying to paint a picture here.

Yeah, a number of months apart. Right, right. Doesn't matter. I think it was 2009. He came in. I was sparring. I had no mouthpiece. And when you were to, when anytime,

you're sparring you don't have a mouthpiece, not a good idea. Right. When you're at a new gym where you don't know the guys and you have no mouthpiece, you just shouldn't spar. But I was there, I had travel, I had to do the workout. And I told Vandalee, he came in and that was Vandalee Sylvie, you know,

there's an aura about him, if you will. And I didn't know how his English was or mine, so I just smiled real big and pointed to my mouth and he said okay. And so we sparred the round. He never threw a punch at me. He took care of me the entire time. let me throw my combinations on him, and then he even coached me a little bit.

He said that I should be after I punched to finish combinations with kicks. He was just a great guy. And he spars really hard. He's the last guy you want to go with without a mouthpiece. And I thought, well, what a great guy. I had a good experience with him. A little bit later, he opened his gym. I happened to be in town, so I went down for the grand opening.

Everything was fine. I had my Anderson fight, and I was doing some kind of a press tour with Vandalay. And we ended up in a van together, and we'd spent the whole day together. and he had his own videographer with him. And at some point he queues the guy up and he cuts like a promo on me, you know, tell me to watch my mouth and you do these things in Brazil and you lose your teeth. And he was doing this whole thing. And I just thought, finally, this is really weird.

Because first off, you're telling me off, which is a little bit, that's rude. Second, we've spent the whole day together. Like, we're in a van, man. Are you trying to start a fight with me in a van after we spent the day? And third, you brought the camera man. Like this is just, it's just weird. And, you know, so I got my ego too, you know, and I kind of admired the guy, but I got my ego too. So I had to push back.

And then, you know, he went crazy or whatever happened. And it's like, hey, well, then game on, man. You know, I appreciate you looking after me that one day. But if this is the way you want to go, I'm a fighter too. And so it all started there in that van. I think that was in Austin, Texas. Yeah, that's right. It was an Austin.

Jen Wink was in the car. Jen Wink was in the car. And I just thought it was really inappropriate. It's like, Vandale, I get a. you're trying to make a name. Yeah. You know, and I was on top, but, hey, you've been on top too. You don't need to get a name off of me.

Man, you're still vandalis. Sylvia, you headlined some big cards, and you're going to keep headlining some cards. And I just thought it was a really weird thing to do, particularly that he brought the video guy. Yeah. And then things just went bad to worse. You know, you're going back a number of years, but I remember we were on the set of the Ultimate Fighter in Brazil. Yeah. And I was persona non grata in Brazil at that time.

You're wiping your nose. Is that me? No, no, no. That's just me. Oh, your nose. I have a big nose. It gets in the right. So that's your comment. So anyway, we ended up out there

and he starts a street fight with me and it's like Vandalay, I'm by myself. I have nobody and I'm the bad guy here. So if you come out and you pick on me, you're going to humanize me and you're going to humble me to the audience, which is going to make them like me,

which is not what I'm here for. The script is written, man. I'm the bad guy. You be the white knight. You come save your country. go fight this out on pay-per-view. This is really obvious, but if you bully me while I'm alone, it's going to have the reverse effect. So first, now you've just lost my respect because now you're a dummy. Yeah. You don't get it, which makes, if you don't understand the business, I can't respect you in this business. And then secondly, my wife was there. You start a fist fight with me, which I end up getting jumped. One of his cronies jumps me in front of my wife. It's like,

Van, I don't like you at all. But if you show up somewhere with your wife, we're doing it. it your way. You tell Chale to go stand in the corner with his pants and your wife's, I'm going to do it. I'm going to make you look good in front of your wife. I'm not going to start a fight. This is like bro code 101 and we don't have a bunch of honor, man. It's two thieves in this thing together. But my wife's there and you're going to start a fight with me. Man, that was hard. Wow. I could see you actually, that really pissed you off. It disappointed me more than anything because it goes back to what I told at the beginning. When I very first saw the guy, he had like an or a or It was like the first time I saw Hoyce Gracie in person.

It was a big deal. I remember that moment. I'm a fan first. Now I'm a fighter and a commentary. I've got my place in this sport. But I started as a fan and that's how my career will end. I'm a fan. I admire these guys.

You've got a guy like Vandalay that's done everything that I'm trying to do. At this point of my career when I meet him, I'm trying to get to where he is. And he's going to go and pull something like that. It's like, Van der Leigh, come on, man. I've been around him where his kids are there. The gig is up, man. Your kids are there, you win. When's the last time you spoke to him?

Was it at that press conference when you guys did the face-to-face? Yeah, in 2014. You won't believe this. He's on the phone. He called in. The second? Right now. Oh, what it would?

I wouldn't believe that. You wouldn't believe that? You wouldn't believe it? You don't believe it? You think I have a way of calling Vanderlays Silva in the middle? Listening to the show, heard the stories. You think I have that power? I think you do.

I don't. I see a glimmer in your eye. I'll stick to K-Fabe. Van der Lear are you there? Van der Leigh Silva? Are you on the phone? I'm a friend. I hear everything.

That's him. You talk to you like, man. You need to talk to Charles. He's talking like a loser, man. Man, I'm not fair friend, man. You know that. You know we have some problems. And you come to say a lot of this story of history.

Fuck ourselves, man. Let's do that. Man, well, what are talking about history? No, I'm fair. I'm fair. Fuck ourselves, man. I want to beat you very bad, man. In 24 June, you're going to have that time.

Bye. Vandrele, are you still there? Can I ask you a question? Yeah, yeah. This story that Chelle just told about the brawl on the ultimate fighter, did you know that his wife was there? And if so, do you regret going through that with him? Oh, no, no, come to tell this sad history.

Oh, geez. That's not, no, never, man. Oh, yeah, man. He is a man. I have two balls. We have two balls. Let's do that. No, no, no, no. No, no. No, no. To have a reason to tell all this sad history.

Right. Man, let's do it. Let's do. Let's do. Let's do. Let's do. Make the job. Make a good fight. Make you one of the biggest fights of the history. And I want to beat you so bad. Anything you want to say to Vanderle, Chale? No. No. Can I ask you the same question, Van der Leigh, before you go, and I appreciate you calling in. I asked Chale, why do you dislike Vanderle? He told me, why do you dislike Chale?

Yeah. We, we lost them. We are the top fighters in the world. We're going to make one of the biggest fights of the history. One of the biggest, one of the biggest arenas in the world. In that day, the Latour is going to be biggest than UFC. We're going to make the Latour's biggest than UFC in that day for the person. And a lot of times, but that day, we're going to make all of the biggest events in the world.

I wanted to tell this one thing for you, Sartel. Let's go, stop to talk, and let's go train me because, man, you got in trouble with him in June. Bye. Thank you, Vanderle. Bye. Did you get that? I got that. The message at the end?

It took me a second there. Wow. How about that? I thought that, because I thought it was a voice. So I was waiting for him to pop up. Okay, what's area of pulling? That was Vandale. That was?

Well, you thought that whole thing was a rib. No. Well, I actually thought it was V. I thought this guy's really good. Yes, I thought it was a rib. But I was waiting for him. his face to pop up and when it didn't I was like oh Ariel's polling one. Vanillae's only

been on the show once. I'm not a texting buddy with him. So how do you know it was him? Same way I do. It sounded just like him? No, in my ear they told me hey. Okay. Vanley just called in. All right. How about that? Pretty cool. That's something. I'm very happy for you. But you didn't want to talk to him.

You know, I don't know what to say. I didn't know what to say that whole time. Are we doing it back and forth? Like we have a press conference tomorrow by example out here in New York, but he's not coming. He's not coming. He's not coming to the press conference. Why? There's another reason I thought that was a rib. He's on the list.

He's not coming to the press conference. So then I go from here to Chicago, Mo versus Rampage, live free and only on Spike TV. That's a show I heard. So I'm going out to Chicago for that, and we're going to do a face-off. Everybody that's on the paper view, everybody that will be at the press conference will be, Vanillae's not coming. It's like, Van, what do you mean you're not coming? Who misses a press conference in New York City? Who doesn't go live on Spike TV for some kind of a promo, but he's not coming.

But here he is on the MMR. You pulled off what MSG and frankly what Spike even Friday with Mo and Rampage. By the way, I didn't pull off anything. 9 p.m. 6 in the West. He listens to the show, clearly tunes in. He's on the show. You pull it up. How did I time it that we were just talking about him and then there he is calling into the show?

You're genius. Here's the thing. I'm not taking any credit. Here's the thing. I feel like you're taking the credit. No, no. I mean, look, the show is the show. It's a good platform.

I mean, could Joel pull something like this up? Let's not get into that. Let's not get into Joel. I mean, you talk about a scrub of all scrubs. I mean, the job squad. Tell that guy to get my name out of his mouth. Listen, honestly. I will tell him.

Honestly, when you come to New York and find out that this guy is not coming to the press conference, this is shades of the Connor McGregor thing. Are you saying, I'm out of here? Why should I come from Oregon? Oregon to New York is not quite Brazil to New York, but I mean, it's not next door. Yeah, I thought it was disheartening. I mean, I would have come either way, but I did think it was disheartening,

and I thought it was confusing. It's like, hey, Vandling, you know, not for nothing, but again, you've got two veterans of the business. Don't just forget the sport, but we both should know the business, but I feel like only one of us does. You know, we are the main event at MSG. Fador's got to jerk the curtain. In fairness, you know, Fador is a legend.

Fader's an absolute legend. you have some title fights going down that night, and we're headlining the whole show. There is an obligation that comes with that. You get on the airplane, you come to the press conference, and I thought that it was surprising that he didn't. So it's quite literal when I tell you. Yeah.

We couldn't pull this off. We couldn't even pull it off for Friday night during the Moe Rampage fight. And you just pull it off on the MMA hour. So you see why I was a little bit cautious. Like when you said, hey, do you have anything to say to Vandalay? I said, no, because I was processed it in my mind. Is this even Vandalay? Yeah.

Is this Vandalee? But I believe that was Vandale. So it's a little deflating because tomorrow you're going to have no dance partner, right? Like you can't do the face-off, right? Yeah, I feel like it's, I feel like it's a little bit bizarre, but I also don't know the backstory. I just got here. I got in last night, you know. Did you threaten to go back? No, I would never leave. But I have vowed that the next time I see Vandalé, I will be fighting Vandale, and I trust that that is true. So they might have just

said, look, why even get these guys together? You know, what? This was your chance to say something to him. You're not going to get a chance tomorrow. Now I'm even more surprised you didn't say anything. Yeah, well, you understand why it was a little apprehensive as to whether it was him. You know, you didn't have that backstory. I I didn't know you didn't know that. He's not coming to the press or he's not doing any media. So it's like, well, why would he, how would he know? We're live.

Some fans may not know this. We're live right now. So, yeah, he's literally listened to your show and took the time of calling. I don't even know what time it is. I wish I would have had it back and forth with them, but it caught me off guard. Wow. We got you speechless. Yeah.

I don't know if you have me speechless, but I did think I wasn't sure it was vandal. You don't want to play a part in what was, in your opinion, a joke. In case it was a joke. Yeah. I think I would do that to you? I don't know that you would, but you know, you have to understand in fairness when it's face in a pop up. Sure. You could have been getting up.

Yeah, I'm not representing to our audience that you got, but that was Vandalite. But I don't know that we either one of us knew at the time. Yeah. Let me ask you, you mentioned something about Golofkin Jacobs as we kind of move on from that. I'm still kind of a bit jumpy over everything that just occurred. I don't know about you. You seem to be looking at me stone cold face, so I'm going to move on for me. You said 170 was a bit of a bust, pay-per-view buys.

What's the success? for Belter's second paper view. Oh, for Belter. So let's see. Well, I mean, I guess it's like anything, you've got to move forward. So you look at what their previous numbers were. You know what it was? Yeah, they did.

I don't know if we're supposed to disclose this. They did Mo versus Rampage, and I was just given the information. They did 280. And for me, that would be, yeah, for me, that would be a success. Because for most, I could tell you for the UFC, the break-even, about 200 is just kind of the rule of thumb. You know, so they did 280. we would expect more. I don't know what a good. I think that I would like to see, I think I would like to see a half a million, but they may have loftier goals. For me, I think

that would be good because it is the second one. Don't forget, you've got an education process. I just came through, I'm going to tie this into something else. I just came through the Celebrity Apprentice, which bombed. We did terrible ratings. And a lot of people. Yeah, a lot of people, well, it absolutely wasn't, but they blamed it on Schwarzenegger. And I'm going, well, time out a second. When Trump did it, and I was a big fan of the show, when he did it. So I always watched. I didn't have to bone up on it because I went on. I watched it legitimately, but it was on Thursday nights. And they had like seven or eight seasons. And it was always on Thursday nights. So when Schwarzenegger went in there, they moved it to Monday. And there

was like an education process where you have to inform people, this is now on Monday. I was on the show. And on Sunday, I knew it was that week. I thought it was Thursday. And somebody told me, no, it airs tomorrow. And I argued with them. And I said, no, the show's on Thursday. I was on the show. And I didn't know it was on Monday. The only point I'm trying to make there is I do believe this card is outstanding. I believe it's going to do very big numbers. But I think that people do need to understand there is an education process. And if Mo Rampage a number of years ago, and that was headlined by one show,

I couldn't even tell you what the co-main was. If they did just south of 300,000, I think that a half a million with this card is fair. Smashing success. Yeah, but that might insult some people. At Bellator, I'm not trying to insult them as much as be fair that you do have to let people know. You've given them live free products for you. years, largely on Friday nights, you are now moving to pay-per-view and you're moving to Saturday night. And the UFC has seen this in reverse. You'll remember when Brock Lesnar fought Overeign,

mega fight, but they moved it to a Friday. On a Friday night, they did 560,000 bytes. That was a success for them, but Brock Lesnar on a card against Overeign, particularly at that time, is going to do north of a million, but you move the night. Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, it's, it's tricky because Bel-Tor has always been that free TV, if you want to call it free TV cable product. And now you're asking people to pay. Do you know how much? I can ask Scott this in a few minutes, but you know, you're kind of the... I don't, but I'm comfortable telling you 50 bucks. I mean, is that just what a pay-per-view is? Is that, because they haven't officially said it. It wasn't in the press release. Is it 50 bucks? I don't know, but I know I know I'm close enough that I won't

hurt anybody's feelings. Has UFC moved up to 60? Yeah, with HD. Because you get an HD, yeah. And I always order it in HD. I can't tell the difference. And I still get an HD. Yeah, I know. That week was particularly weird for you. Did they time it to where your fight with Tito happened at the same time? as you getting kicked off the apprentice. I mean, it happened in the span of like three days. If they did, they'd have had to have major insider knowledge, you know, because we're not allowed to tell. And that was my third delve into reality TV, if you will, Ultimate Fighter One and the Brazil thing and then this.

But all the contracts were very similar, that if you tell anybody, how this, $5 million. $5 million. With COCs contract to that way, in Brazil, with Globo is that way. And with NBC, it was $5 million. So I don't know of anybody of my castmates or anybody that, that slipped. a secret. If Bellator had some way to get that knowledge, I'd be stunned. I think it was just a... You regret. And so the story

is that you cheated, right? You cut the court. I did see it? Oh, hey, good move by me? I mean, it was controversial and it certainly got a lot of... Good move, though. Did you like it? Good for TV? Good for TV, but you got kicked out. How much money is at stake, by the way? So, here's what you have to understand. On that show, how much... So, they do what's called

Equal Nations, which is a legal term in California, which is everybody's treated the same. If you win the show, or you go out on the first day, everybody gets to A good move. Everybody gets the same hotel, the same, everybody gets straight, Equal Nations Clause. Here was the problem with Celebrity Apprentice. Nobody understood what we were doing.

And it's like, castmates. Let me all get you guys together. And you can't explain this to somebody, Errol. It's like the MMA business. You either get it or you don't, and I can't teach it to you. You get it or you don't. Castmates, this isn't real. There is no job at the end of this.

There is no company called Schwarzenegger Inc. Now, the difference when Trump did it, it was real in that if you won that, you really were apprentice. You would relocate, you would go to work at Trump Tower, and he would assign you to a job site for 12 months with came with a salary. It was real. He was hiring somebody. He would mentor them and inspire them. This isn't real. Celebrity Apprentice, the only thing we're after is ratings. So let's go out and let's give some people some ratings. And it was so tough with my castmates because they were so worried about how they'd be depicted. And it's like, guys, forget about how you're depicted. We're all hired by NBC. We're all here to do a job, which is to deliver, this is a ratings

grab and that's okay but that's what it's represented to the viewer as too so let's give them what they want let's make some tv here and you just could not get these bee level celebrity wannabes to go along with it man they were all so tied to it in their image and it's like but guys this isn't real there's not really a job however you might be around next week right so let's go out and let's make some television right and you did yeah oh we made great tv yeah highest rated of the year of the season for sure i mean not even knew it was going to to be going in and it's like hey guys you're missing an opportunity here let let's build some let's build some tv and we had some other storylines and uh i don't fault them for it's just not how

i would have done it some other storylines that were buried i mean we from from from from fights to drinking to drug use to all these storylines that were captured that got buried and it's like you guys i'm not sure you want to do that i mean this it's tv let's tell these stories and make some tv did they get mad of you for cutting the cord no right no no no of course not but uh yeah i was mad at the way the thing came out. Only in that, it's like, hey, guys, I know what the ratings are. This is all going to come up. That's the single greatest thing that's happened here because it's so dull.

Everybody was so dull because they missed the point. This is a ratings grab and it's nothing else. So let's go out and create some TV. So, no, no, they weren't actually mad. Speaking of ratings and things like that. Would you be mad at your highest rated show? No, of course not. Of course.

Of course. This has been the best month or so for Bell-Tor and the same. sense of positive headlines, signing people, and things like that. Are you surprised at all this? Like, did you think this would happen so soon with all these fighters coming aboard? I mean, Ryan Bader, Larkin, Stanis, Michael McDonald, in the span of like 10 days. McDonald, how cool is that? McDonald's back.

Out of nowhere. I thought he was just, like, gone or something. You know, he's a ton of fun. So, no, I don't know if I was surprised, but the way the sport has moved forward in UFC included, I would include them in this. I had no idea, you know, 20 years ago, even 10 years ago. that it would be as big as it is or that the opportunities would be here. I do some commentating, and there was never once in my life that I dreamed to be in a commentator

because that didn't exist. Those opportunities weren't even there. And the UFC moved forward so fast. Bellator and Spike have moved their company forward so fast. Selling out arenas, as I told you at the beginning of this interview, from the Mohegan Sun to San Jose is really a remarkable thing. I think this Mo Rampage fight, for me, it's a big deal because there's always a spot for rampage.

Always a spot when Rampage is going to go out there. I think that it's a heavy weight makes it very. intriguing. We saw the first one, but now you're changing the weight class. Is that good for rampage? Is that bad for rampage? Historically, that's bad. When a guy comes in that's big, it's bad, but he's very cognizant of it and he thinks it's going to help him. I think you've got to take him at his word. So this Bellator has made so many interesting moves. And going back to pay-per-view, I can tell you when I signed with them, I had no hints or indications that they were going to go in that direction. I thought that it was going to be just the ratings and

gate business. Coker plays things very, very close to the chest. So I don't have like insider knowledge that I don't share with you. He doesn't share it. He keeps his cards tight and he makes his moves, but he's got some visions, man. He's carrying through with them. The topic de jour is we're moving away from sport. We're going more towards entertainment. I mean, you got the entertainment side of things better than anyone.

I remember for that Yusufi fight, you blew my mind with the way you talked about it, the bill to the fight and how you were frustrated that he wasn't pulling his weight. So you've been talking about this before anyone. Are you bothered by anything that's going on? and in particular more in the UFC, like do you feel like the sport is moving away from what it was a couple of years ago? No, well, for the best. For the best, yes.

I think that it's very positive. And I think when you look at the numbers, you look at the ticket sales, you look at the live game, I think that people would agree with me. Now, you do have to be cognizant. You know, you're playing some politics here. You want to put on the biggest fights, which Dana's very open and telling people, this is a business I put on the biggest fights.

But to be respected, you also have to balance that with the ratings. You've got to put on the right guys at times. So you try to balance that, I think that it's pretty tough to do. Now, generally, Ariel, the good news is your best guy is your biggest draw. They usually go hand in hand, but sometimes they don't. Sometimes you get a guy like George St. Pierre, who's not in the rankings at all, but he's been sitting out since November of 2013. So, of course, he can't be in the rankings.

You're going to tell me George St. Pierre isn't the number one contender? Man, that's horse crap. George St. Pierre is always the number one contender. So you've got to make some room for that. And then what do you do when you got a big star like Connor McGregor, who's proved how great he is? Double champion and the two hardest weight classes, the sport even had. He's got both belts. But he wanted to take a little time off.

He had the baby that he disclosed to us. And he's got the Floyd Mayweather thing coming. What do you do, man? You do the best that you can. You come with an interim title. You put Kabeb and Tony. You miss the fight. You try to do it again.

I mean, there's only so many right ways you can do it. But yes, if they're going to lean towards entertainment and if that drives the – nothing trumps the industry. I see these prick fighters all. the time. We've got them at Bellator. The UFC is plagued with these bombs. That they think they're bigger than the sport. Nothing is bigger than the industry. Guys like you, guys like me that do other things outside the business, nothing trumps the industry. And if you try to put yourself or your own knowledge or whatever matchups there are, how long you need for a training camp, if you try to

put yourself in front of the industry, you do not have a spot in it. Connor Floyd, you tweeted about it. Yeah. That's fight's happening. Aaron, this is really weird. No, well, see, here's a problem. So we've got the who and the what. We don't have the wear and the wind. So you can't really do a story until you have a venue, until you have the wear and the wind. But here's how it worked. And you'll co-sign what I'm going to say. If you hear a fight is going to happen and you're a responsible reporter, you're going to get as close to that source as you possibly can. And generally, it's going to be a trainer. It's going to be a manager. It's going to be a coach. It might be a girlfriend or a wife. If you actually get a hold of Connor McGregor, and he tells you, yes, it's

happening. You report it. In this case, we've got a hold of Connor. He's told us yes. We've got to hold of Floyd. He's told us yes. So you either report that the fight's happening or you're calling these guys liars. It's one of the two. Either Connor and Floyd,

who have both said they're going to fight each other, are liars, or you report that it's happening. Yes, I do have the source. As you well know, you never give up your source. Mine's at the ticketing company. He said, go ahead and out me. He said, go ahead and out of me. I love to be part of the story.

Just leave my name out of it. But they were submitted what's called a build. And in promoter talk, that's the first thing that you give to the ticketing company, which is where you get your fire marshals involved, figure out your capacity, show them the layout where the ring's going to be, where the walkouts are going to be. A build was submitted for that event. That does not make it factual.

I have to admit, that does not make it factual, but I believe it. Wow. And on top of that, yeah, ticket master, the guy a ticket master, that's not who's going to be doing their tickets, but his counterpart revealed us to him. But I would tell you this. Connor and Floyd said it's happening. Where in history of fighting have the two main principles said yes, and a media guy, didn't come out and say it's happening.

You either announce that fight or you're calling Connor and Floyd liars, which is okay because they both are at times. But those are your options. You know when? No, I don't know when. I read a report that it was going to be June 10th, but I don't personally believe that. I don't think it'll be June 10th.

Connor came out and said that it would be later in September. And don't forget, the only divisible here that was separating this was Dana White for the long time. Now, Dana White's come out and said yes. And people still won't report it. Are you surprised? We've got Dana that's saying, yeah, go ahead. We've got Connor and Floyd saying it's on.

We don't have a media outlet out there, aside from me, that will come out and put their name behind it and say it's on. But I'm told it's not done yet. I will tell you it's on. That's my reason for not reporting it. Sure. Are you surprised he's saying yes? Well, and if you're going to do it, Ariel in fairness, you do need a wear and when. You do need to have that date signs.

So I can understand that. Am I surprised Dana said, yeah, a little bit? A little bit. I'd like to know the backstory. Is he co-promoting? Is he going to be the straper? Well, I haven't asked him about it. What am I going to text him to say?

What's a scoop? Give me some scoop that you haven't told anyone else? You never had him on your show. Should we call him right now? No, I don't think so. Why? Are you on bad terms of them? No, I just don't think he would appreciate that.

You scared of Dana? Not at all. You sound scared of data. You can call him. Go ahead. Do it. I feel like you check it out. It's your show.

I was trying to get your boost there. You don't want to do it? Go ahead. What should we ask him? Why did he agree to let this fight happen? I feel like you missed your mark. I feel like maybe you did. I feel like the real miss Mark was when you didn't speak to Vanderlay,

when he called in on the show I think that was a missed opportunity by me. Yeah, I thought that was a missed opportunity by me. You did have me off guard a little bit. You could see, in fairness, though, if you're sitting in my shoes, where you hear this guy's voice that you haven't seen in years, you find out he's not coming to New York for press coverage. He's not going to Chicago for press.

And he calls into the MMA area. In fairness, you could see where I would have been skeptical. Perhaps what we really revealed is how low you think of my show that of all places he would show up is this little rinkied-uporation. You know, that's not how I meant it, but I think if we were comparing it to, you know, the mega millions they're putting into this that you think the guy would have got on an airplane.

Little bit bizarre. Yeah. Okay, last thing. WrestleMania this weekend, you watching? Yeah, so next weekend, April 2nd. Well, this coming up. Oh, geez, it's already here. You're completely correct.

I didn't know it was coming that fast. Yeah, I will absolutely be watching. I love that Shane is back. Yeah. I also love that Shane will do the job. He's the only one in that family whose ego will let him put business first. I think the match-ups great. And then, you know, you got the relic versus Brock,

but I don't know what's going to happen there. Goldberg. Oh, Goldberg. You know, you got Goldberg versus Brock. And in any normal circumstance, you and I would sit here and agree, oh, yeah, Brock's going to go over. And I do agree that Brock's going to go over. But they at least created that I'm not sure in your mind because they had Brock at squash ties. And I'll remind you this. When Goldberg signed on, it was to take him through WrestleMania. So when he squashes Brock, the very first time he did it was obvious. Okay, he gets his payback. But they're a public company now. So this information's hard to keep quiet. They just signed Goldberg to an extension. So does Brock go over? Yes. Does Brock go over? Yes. Does Brock beat him clean? Yes. Is there enough speculation based on what I just told you that Goldberg got an extension and they loved to swerve the fans at WrestleMania? Is there enough there to make us all tune in and buy? Yeah, I think so, man. They do crazy stuff at WrestleMania.

It'll be clean. There won't be interference. One guy will win. It should be Brock. But you can't guarantee it at WrestleMania. I love how big of a mark you are. Do you remember? Do you read the Russell Observer newsletter and get all this information?

No, but he's good. Meltzer is very good. He used to be the main dirt sheet that I did read. Now I just follow it and Twitter's kind of. gotten there, but Meltzer has been the man for a long time. I'll tell you this, Ariel, do you remember when Seth, Ron, do you have another guest after me? Yes, Scott Koch. Oh, where the boss is coming in. Okay, well, then I'll go fast in case he's in the back. But do you remember when Seth Rollins cashed in money in the bank? Yes, yes, yes. Okay, but why that was

so exciting, not only was that a swerve, which WrestleMania loves to give you a swerve, it was a clean finish, which WrestleMania always gives you a clean finish, but Seth had just lost 45 minutes earlier, clean to Orton. So you would never see that coming. It was brilliant right. I'm told Pat Patterson came up with that brainshot all on his own and he deserves credit, even years later. Well, to me, what drove me away from wrestling was it became too predictable. You could see the outcomes a mile away, and that's why I love Eminemay so much. I mean, perfect example. This is an old school, I'm surprised you to make the connection. This is an old school, like Memphis pro wrestling match we're getting Friday on Spike TV. Rampage is leaving. Yeah. His contract's up. Yeah. He has to go

back to the UFC. That's right. He's leaving the territory in wrestling. Or leave and retire, but yeah, you're right. wrestling, he would do the job, no if fans or buts. MMA, he could beat one of the biggest stars and then move on. That's kind of a mess. That's what I love so much about it. I'm going to split. I didn't know Koker was what. I'm going to split. But Eric, may I ask you this? Because I'm calling that fight, so I kind of have to stay out of it. Will you give me a prediction on Ro-O versus Rampage? You stay out of predictions. Don't you, will you agree with me on this, though? Can we both agree, the weight is the biggest storyline here. Because even if you go back to that first fight, which was controversial and lean towards Rampage, even if you go back to that and use that a

as a historical, you know, tracking point to tell you where this fight's going to go. The weight does change things because Rampage on that conference call, and I think this is gamesmanship, we're going to find out Thursday. Rampage claims he's coming in at 260. Now, I was just with Rampage about three weeks ago. He's not 260. But the point is he's coming in big. So that either helps him or that hurts him.

And I think that's the storyline. Am I wrong? No, that's a great. I mean, we talked about that with Moe on the show because sometimes with like BJ Penn, when he fights at 170, he just isn't as motivated. So sometimes people use the extra weight as a chance to lay off the gas. Let me say this one last thing before you go.

Friend to friend. One thing that I have always admired, maybe the thing I admired most about you is your ability to move on from things. I was so impressed with how you moved on from the Tito fight. I know that means a lot. In your personal life, you've been through a lot,

in your professional life you've been through a lot. You show us, and this is a big thing for me, dating back to how Rhonda dealt with her losses. Connor dealt with his. Dominic, I thought, was phenomenal. It's very impressive when you're talking about, you know, the stars of the sport, how they deal with things, and in particular, adversity publicly. And you do it better than anyone. And people can take shots at you and say that you don't really care.

I know how much you care. I know how much that loss meant to you. And it was just really impressive to see how you showed up. You faced the music. And now you're moving on to June 24th. So kudos to you. And I don't know how you do it, to be honest, because just being frank, you have been through a lot. Sure. That's a tremendous compliment. I appreciate that for me. If I may respond to that, just for your listeners, you know, you have Good days and bad days. And what are you doing a good day? You get up, you put your boots on, you go to work. What happens on a bad day? You get up, you put your boots on and you go to work. My father was a plumber. That's very hard work, particularly in Oregon, where you're outdoor and it's raining, it's snowing, and everything else. He never missed work. You get up and you go to work to work to support your family and support yourself and whatever it is. And when I look at our fans that work hard,

and they pay their hard-earned money to come out to Madison Square Garden and support this event on June 24th, to go out to Chicago and watch Moen Rampage this Friday, to stay home and order some pizzas and get some beers and get some people. You have to understand, our fans get up and they work hard, and they don't get to offer excuses, and some days go your way, and some days don't, and when I watch these pre-Madonna fighters that have to go to work three times a year, and then they want to hang their head after they got famous,

and they got notoriety, and they got a paycheck, and they got all of these opportunities. I don't understand it. You know, if you look at our boss Scott Coker, you think every show's gone his way, Ariel? it doesn't, but he gets up the next day, he puts his boots on and he goes to work so that everybody can have an industry. And it's so important to do, that was a tremendous compliment you just gave me. And it is very hard. And there are days, I'm an actor. I got to put on my game face man,

but I'm hurting inside bad, you know, professionally or you're ashamed or, you know, what I went through with my daughter. It's so bad. But you've got to become an actor. And what the great actors in Hollywood do is they become people. They're not. A guy will become a cowboy, even though he's not really a cowboy. where you become that person. And sometimes, man, I'm faking it until I can make it and I'm putting that face on. But it does hurt. Tito Ortiz sucks and it hurts so bad to lose to that guy.

But what are you going to do? You're going to get up and you're going to go to practice and you're going to try to get better and you're going to try to put yourself in the best opportunity for success in the future. It's all you can do. Well said. Great words to end.

Do you want me to call, should I call Dana to do that? I feel like, you know, because you brought in Vandalette here. Vandrelay, Dana. Call Dana White. Let's see what happens. happens here. Scott, what a great

introduction for Scott Coker to come in on. Coker would it be mad in the least? Coker go, hey, Chale, what Dana says?

That boxing fight's going to go to the fight. Coker's a fan. He's probably listening right now. Oh, here we go. Oh, there's Scott. Tuning in.

You see him? We're going to find out if this fight's happening. Scott's right there. Oh, he just moved back. Apparently you and Dana. Dana must have a new phone because don't you remember

what used to be the Beastie boys? Well, we haven't gotten into the voicemail yet. Is that where that comes? I thought it was a ringtone. I think he blocked your number. I think he wants nothing to do with you.

I think I go straight to voicemail when your number is blocked, right? Oh, I don't know. I've never been blocked. Never been blocked? I feel like I blocked you. If anyone, I would have blocked you. All right, we're not...

Oh, how do you like that? What is that? That means new number. Wow. You didn't get the text? Even I got the text. You got a text that he's got a new number? I have two in my phone form,

but... I was banned from the arena and still got the text. Well, then you should be. calling him. Why am I calling him for? All right, Ariel, I've had it with you, enjoy Koker. What do I do? I get up to leave now? No, we're going to take a quick break. Thank you to Chale, June 24th, Madison Square Garden, Chale Sunnin versus

Vandley-Silver. And yes, that was Vanderlain. Yes, he dropped the ball on that. They were going to use it on the countdown show, and now we can't use it anymore. We're still going to use it. Anyway, see him tomorrow, press conference, and in a minute we're going to be joined by Scott Coker, the CEO of Belator. While we reconfigure, let's look back at my interview with him

in St. Louis, 2010, prior to their big show there, sit-down with Scott, if you will. We'll say goodbye to Chale, say hello to Scott, and we'll be back on the MMA hour. When you look back on your year 2010, overall, you happy with what you guys accomplished? Yeah, absolutely. I think that if you look at the last 18 months with our relationship, Showtime, I mean, it's still a young relationship, and I think we accomplished some great, you know, a lot of good fights and a lot of the growth of our roster now.

If you look it back at, you know, 18 months ago, what a roster was going to where it is today, it's nothing like it was, you know, 18 months ago. And now just not just in the headweight division, but, you know, if you look at our all the way classes, the 170, the 205, now we've been able to build new guys at the Tyronewood leaves or the Luke Rockholes or the Tahrs Saffordines, and these guys are coming up and now we're going to start fighting the big show.

So we've been able to grow fighters from the Challenger series and graduate into the big fights. And, you know, so I think we're doing very well. Any regrets strike force related? You know, we've had the up and down roller coaster that we've had with the M1 folks, right? But it is what it is. Everybody knows what it is. And, you know, I think we're very close to getting through that.

But, you know, that was a, you know, I wish Fader could have fought more, you know, for us in the last, since 0.9, I mean, the last 12 months. I wish Fader could have fought more. But, you know, that's going to take time. I think in 2011, I think you'll see Fador in the cage with strike force a minimum of two times up to three times. Was that deal worth it for you, not financially, but just with everything else that comes along with it. A lot of people talk about the issues with M1, some of the issues Fader has had in terms of part here and not being a big draw. Was that worth it for you guys?

Did you really need to sign Fader to take the next step? Yeah. I mean, seriously, did we need them to take the next step? I would say no. But was it a good move for the company? I'd say, yeah, because he's a guy that will move the needle, right? To me, when you're a promoter, these are the four things I look for. Do you have drawing power at the gate?

Do you move the needle for TV ratings? Can you obtain media? And are you going to be able to create the buzz of a big event? And so Fado does all those things. and he moves a needle in the TV ratings for sure. He moves the needles, he moves the needle as far as the gate goes. I personally think that next year will be a big step for him. Even though he's been fighting for such a long time,

you and I know him, and I used to watch a fight in Pride back in Japan and when I was remember for K-1. So the guy is a legend of sport, but a lot of the everyday fan here doesn't know who he is yet. So I think by the end of 11, people will know who favored a million equals here in America. Do you consider yourself a promoter? I consider myself a martial arts promoter. You do?

Yes. One of the main criticisms of you, and I'm sure you've heard this before, is that you are not as present as the promoters that we've come to know. Dana White, Don King, you know, Bob Aram. They're always there. Let's take this week, for example. We haven't seen you yet this week. You weren't at the press conference, weren't at the Wands. Why is that?

You know, the thing is, to me, you know, when I grew up, Don King was like the big boisterous, over the top, kind of, you know, this Ringling Brothers and Barman Bailey type character. And I like Don King, but that's never been my character. So, you know, to me, I go, that's not going to be something I try to, you know, follow in, like a Don King footsteps. I just think I've taken my own path. The whole comment about Bob Aram is, you know, I've seen Bob Aram Press Conference live, and he handles them very well, and he says what he has to say, but really it's about, you know,

patio, that's the start of the show. But in order to get the word out about your fights and your promotion. All right, back on the MMA hour, that was my conversation with Scott Coker back in 2010 prior to his event in St. Louis, and now here he is. Joining us in studio. Back to back in studio guests. Now, you don't remember this. You know, I remember part of the interview,

but I don't remember too much more of the context of the conversation. Yeah, you thought it was in New York. Well, the way you're talking about the heavyweight tournament. Yes. And I thought that, I came to New York, and I was talking to Showtime, and I said, this is what I'd like to do

because they had come off that middleweight tournament for boxing. Yeah. And I said, I'd like to do this heavyweight tournament. And in the past, they were kind of, you know, not too supportive of a tournament format. And because they were having so much hard time with their boxing getting extended,

getting hurt. and I said, well, I would like to do this, and they bought into it. And I remember, we, and I said, hey, I wanted to show you this. And that's when I showed you the tournament. It was after that interview in St. Louis, you brought me up to your hotel room. You had an iPad, and you showed me, like, the whole deck of the tournament. That's the deck I showed Ken Hirschman at Showtime. And I said, what?

No one knew. Nobody knew. I kept it in the vault. You know what? I'll always trust you because you kept it. Because of that. And I mean, I saw Fader's name. I saw Arlofski, Harry Tanov, Verdume, Bigfoot.

Yeah, it was an amazing tournament. Honestly, it was one of the, you know, I think one of the best tournaments, you know, to me, in the history of MMA. I mean, we had, you know, Alice Overeem. Yep. And at that time, Brett Rogers was still hot. Andre was still pretty hot at the time. I'll never forget being at the Meadowlands in East Rutherford, New Jersey, first round, right? Fadour Bigfoot.

And you were standing in the back, there was a hallway. Right. And you were wearing a trench coat. Right. And you were standing there. And I remember thinking, wow, this is interesting that Scott is here and not up there. And there was a crew following you. Right.

And this is mid-February. Less than a month later, the company was sold. And thinking back, I've always wondered. I've always wanted to ask you this. Did you know the company was about to be sold? And were you more, I thought you were like, wow, look at my, look what I built. Right. Were you being more nostalgic at that point?

You know what? Did you know? It's, I mean, we knew the dialogue was happening at that point, obviously, right? But, you know, if you know, my style has been, I'm all over the place. Sometimes I'm on front. But a lot of times they just go to the back and watch the fights, you know, on TV. You know, it's something that I feel really comfortable back there. And so I was in the hallway.

I remember I was in the hallway watching the fight going, wow, this is an amazing show. It was. It was just, it was really unbelievable. Whatever happened to that footage? They never released that. A showtime has it. You ever talk to those guys? Yeah, all the time.

Yeah? Oh, they're still great. I mean, I have great relationships there. And they were really good to us. So are you surprised they never got back in? the MMA game? You know what? I know that they love boxing.

Yeah. And I know that from the top down that boxing is a sport that they want to back. So they're doing a great job promoting boxing, but you know, have yet to go into M.A.

on any level, whether it's, you know, M.A. or kickboxing or... But hopefully they will soon or someday. Quick side note. You mentioned, you asked me about this picture here and I said that this photo,

I don't know if you can see it. There it is. Mayhem Miller bowing over Kazushi Sakuraba. That's my favorite MMA photo of all time, taken by the great Esther Lynn. Right.

I know you're a big fan of as well. Yes. And this event, this fight you saw in person. Yeah, I was there. Wow. It was, I think it's a Ta-Tama Super Arena. Yep. And Mayhem had just knocked him out and, you know,

he went to and pay respect to him. It's unbelievable. Yeah. This right here, the, the, the, the, the, it just feels like his soul. Uh-huh. That's why I love it. And respect, it's all about martial arts right here.

This is to me. And look, Mayhem signed it for me. See that? Wow. Wow. Well, you know what? I think, you know, that was really at the tail end of

Saccharagua's career. Yes, it was. And it is what it is. I mean, you know, mayhem was a tough guy. You know, a lot of people underestimate, you know,

his, you know, his ability to fight because of all the challenges later. Yeah. Let me tell you, when he was in his prime, that guy was the killer.

I'll never forget seconds to go in the round takes Jake Shields his back on CBS, Hoffman Estates, Illinois, had him in the rear naked choke. Remember that? Yeah, that was...

He was seconds away from becoming champion. Yeah, that was, that was crazy. That was a tough time. Do you ever look back at some of those fights, those strike force fights? And now, I mean, I said this to our guy New York, Rick, before the show. It feels like finally Bellator is in that sort of strike force headspace again with the kinds of cards, the kinds of people you have on the roster. It took, I mean, you were hired by Bellator or Viacom almost three years ago now, 2014.

You ever look back and be like, man, if I could just get like maybe a rockhold here, a Cormier there, a Jacqueray there. Like if I just had a little bit of those guys, I'd be so much further along. Like is it almost sometimes at the beginning, like a bit like deflating? Like, oh, I got to, it's like you build this championship team and then you have to build up an expansion team. Well, you know what? When I came into the company, it was June of 14. And then if you recall, we had to go on the road right away and do these 10-week shows in a row. So really, I think the first kind of like stamp I had of the show was like November of 14.

And so from that point forward, I would say. that's kind of like the era that I took over because I told him, I said, look, you have a good roster. It's not a great roster, but you have a good roster. And we have to build the new guys. We went inside Aaron Pico, we went, got a couple of the guys.

Now, you know, the train is gone, man. We were sending guys like crazy, you know, all the new prospects, the Tower of Fortunes, the Ed Rus, you know, the Dillans of the world. And then, but at that time, you know, it was really about grabbing a couple guys and let's build these guys. Let's go back to the basics,

star identification, star building, and let's create some stars. And in the meantime, just like Strike Force, let's go buy some free agents. Let's go buy the guys that have recognized all the names. And Phil Davis was the first one that came over,

and then Benson, and then the floodgates open. Yep. And now, you know, we have a very, very good roster, and I'm really proud of what we've done because really I told, you know, Spike TV, I said,

look, this is going to be, you know, four to five year process to get to this point because it's not like it was back then where pride was, you know, gone and then these guys were just floating around for me to start, you know,

picking them up. So, uh, we're going to have to build some. We're going to buy some. And that's really been the philosophy of strike force and it's the philosophy I brought here. And it's worth both, it's worked both times. So I'm pretty proud of that. Is it happening quicker than you expected? I told Spike TV. I said, look, for us,

you know, two and a half years into the process. it's about we're about two years ahead of where I thought we would be. Wow. When I first, you know, came up. Really? And why do you think that is? Boy, I tell you, it's a lot of things happen. The Reebok deal happens, right?

All of a sudden, fighters are like, hey, I want to out of here. And then the company gets sold. Then fighters like, I want to get out of here. Yeah. You know, and I don't even know, like, you saw the thing, like, exactly, you know, how much that has affected, you know, the overall fighter. Like, the fighter wants to get paid. He wants to be treated fairly.

treat with respect and he wants to get, you know, get paid to provide for his family and make a living. That's really what it comes down to. In a weird way, do you think that they have almost expedited this? Like, who could have saw this coming, right? Because you just mentioned three things or at least two things that were UFC things, not Bellator things. Yeah. You mean as far as the... There is a theory, and I subscribe to it that they expedited this turnaround for you guys in the sense that a lot of guys are like, hey, I want to get sponsors again.

Maybe I don't want to check in with USADA 24-7-365. Maybe I feel like I'm not getting paid what I was worth when I see that the owner walked away with $4 billion. They expedited this. Yeah, I mean, you can say that. And, you know, it's been good for us. You know, business has been very good and very happy because you get guys like Bader. You get guys like Gwenzarkin. You know, you get guys, you know, the legend fighters like Chale and Vandalay.

I mean, that's something that, you know, when you look at like the fight card in New York, we got two killer fights and then we think the other fights will be killer but we got two legend fights that everybody's gonna want to see and so you know you need to have that

roster to be able to do fights like that do you feel a lot of pressure though because we talk about the word free agency there's not real free agency in MMA because there's only really two places to go yeah you mean you can have the odd guy go to one

you could have the odd guy go to Risen you could have the odd guy maybe go to World Series of fighting though they haven't really signed anyone of note there's really only a second place Now, this is better than no places. Right. I mean, think about that.

But it feels like every free agent is hoping that you'd give them a deal. Well, the thing is is that, you know, there's a couple of leagues out there that could pick them up if they wanted to. Yeah. But they can't hang with you in the UFC. Well, I think that, you know, that, you know, I can't evaluate their business for how they run, right? So I can only do what we can do. Sure. And, you know, the...

Do you feel pressure to pick up everyone? No. No. You are strategic. There has been other fighters that have been offered that we said, no, we're not interested, you know? Or we thought that. that the pricing was too aggressive or we just felt like, you know, it's value, you know, for what you're getting, you know, is the fighter worth this much money or is a fighter worth

these terms? I mean, at the end of the day, it's just a business decision. And I don't want to say names because some of these guys are friends of mine, but there's been some, you know, big free agents, not free agents, but fighters that were on the way to become free agents that, you know, we decided, you know, we're not going to do it. How long has MSG been in the works? I would say we started talking to them when it became legal here. That long ago. Yeah. I mean, we started the process of talking to the commission and talking to the governor's office and see when we could go.

And so, you know, we knew that the U.S.C. had that date, I think it was November. And so the thing was, people expected us to rush and be on in January, February, you know, come right back after. But I said, look, we're going to go on our terms. And when we can put the fight card together, I think it's worthy of New York. Then we'll come to New York. And that's June 24th. There were some reports that you tried to go in October in Barclays, Brooklyn. Is that true?

There was dialogue with the State Athletic Commission. Yeah. But it was something about, you know, something wasn't filled out in time. You know, I'm not sure exactly. Semantics? Yeah, it was something. Yeah, something. Do you feel like you were kept out?

You know what? I think that there was no way we could possibly have done more than we did to get in and do the fight. You know, so, you know. In other words, yes. I mean, maybe not. Maybe it was just the timing of it all. Right. Things were going very fast at that time. And, you know, it just didn't work out.

I mean, the timing was, we're up against the wall and we had to put that fight somewhere else to do something to do something else, you know, because we got to keep promoting these fights and these fighters have to fight. Yeah. So, but we were talking to. I think we're in serious discussions, but the timing just didn't work out. But you know what? I'm okay with that because look at what we provided now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, like the fator fight with Maitron didn't happen because Matt was, you know, unfortunately

had kidney stones. And then now we can put it on this card on top of the Chale, you know, Van der Leap fight and then add to Ed Lorenz and Michael Chandler and Lima. You know, I mean, it's going to be a great night of fights. Did you feel an obligation to the San Jose market to put that fado fight back there? Because that's your home, right? A lot of people bought tickets to watch that fight. Sure.

Did you struggle with that? You know what? I did, but I thought, listen, this is where it should be. You know, this is where... MSG. MSG. Okay. June 24th, we could add it on top of this fight card.

It would just blow people away, right? So, you know, they could come here or they can watch it on pay-per-view. And a great night of fights. And now, you know, if you look at the undercard, which is going to be, you know, the Bellator 180 card. Yeah, that's on spike. Yeah, we have... In fact, I'll tell you a fight there we're going to put on there. Oh, I was just going to ask you if you had any news for me.

I'll tell you next week, not today. No, no, no, come on. It's going to be a... James Gallagher is going to fight Chinzo Amichita. So that's going to be... Wow. ...the spike card. So we're now putting together the rest of the fight card underneath,

but I'm telling you right now, from top to bottom, this is probably the most stack card I've ever been associated with. Really? And, you know, it reminds me of... It reminds me of when I was watching, you know, in the early 2000s or 90, you know, like where every fight was stacked. Yeah. Miss those days.

Yeah, I miss those days. It wasn't just one guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Top to bottom, nine, ten fights stacked. And you knew every single person in that roster. And this is going to be that fight card. Wow. Yeah, it's going to be... Okay, wait, let me just digest this because it's James Gallowher, who is, you know, very popular in Ireland.

In fact, I got a ton of questions before you came in. Ask God about James. Will he be on the card? Openly, he said, and I said openly last week, that it's a no-brainer because of the Irish fan base here. Against Shizzo Machita. Yeah. I feel like that's a bit of a step up, no? It's a big step up.

Yeah. But, you know, let me tell you something about James. There hasn't been an opponent ever, but he said no to. Wow. The coach might feel differently, you know? Yeah. You know, and rightfully so, right? Sure, sure, sure.

That's the, yeah, the common sense moves, right? Yeah. But the fighter, James has never said no. He goes, I will fight anybody you just, you know, and, you know, we threw the name out, and the coach felt really good about it. So he said, let's do it. What about A.J. McKee, because they were going back and forth. That's a fight will continue.

you to build up. Too soon? Yeah, maybe too soon. Okay. Yeah, maybe too soon. Do you know Aaron Pico's opponent? We don't. Okay.

But we will shortly. I mean, this whole fight card I'd say in the next week, we put together to talk to about it. So right now we have four pay-per-view fights, right? We've got Chale versus Vandrelei. We've got Fader v. Matrione. We've got Primus versus Chandler, Larkin versus Lima.

What's the fifth? That's soon to be announced. Will it be announced tomorrow? No, I don't think so. We're going to wait for the opponent. So we have somebody in mind, but we want to make the other fight. Will it be Ryan Bader, who you just signed? I mean, everything is open at this point, but, you know, we're not, we're not committing

to any particular fighter right now. Is it fair to say you won't do three title fights on this card? Yeah, it's fair to say that. So Bader won't be fighting Davis if he's fighting at MSG. Yeah, I mean, you know what? As much as, you know, people would like to see that fight, we think that's a main event on its own. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It deserves to have its own accolades and build it up because that fight, I mean, if you're fighting on the undercutter of this fight, you might get lost. Yeah, yeah. Or if you're fighting, you know, you can get lost if you're looking to be the big fight. And I think that, like I said, that fight deserves to have its own main event promotion. Pico pay-per-view, spike, non-televised. Hasn't been decided yet. Is there a hesitation to put him at the top?

Because, I mean, this is his first fight. Yeah, I mean, but I would say no. I mean, I think the guy can hang on on any level. Okay. Let me tell you something. Okay. This is a, I sat down on Bob Cook last week. Yeah. And I said, how's Aaron doing? He said, he's going to 10th Planet doing all his jujuice at work.

He's a Freddie Roaches gym sparring with all the top guys. Shea Mosley's son and all the, all the killers there. And he's wrestling with the top guys in wrestling. Like he's really, really training at the highest level on all three, you know, different disciplines, you know, the boxing that may. He's a legit prodigy. Yeah. And he said to me, he said within a year, he will be your champ. That's what Bob Cook said. Wow. Yeah. Well, wait. 155. Wow. He fight Michael Chandler.

In a year? I mean, in a year, maybe he will. Maybe we'll fast track him to get his 10, 12 fights and, you know, fight him every other month. And then... He's going to fight Dylan Danes for the belt because I don't know if you heard Dylan earlier. He said that, A, he's the highest paid fighter in Bell Tour. Is that accurate, by the way? Who said that?

Dylan Danis. Did Jill Stone has said that? And he also said that he is soon going to be in that title picture discussion. This is Dylan. Okay, good. Did you offer Neiman Gracie a fight against Dylan Danis? of a controversy today. Have you heard about this? I haven't heard about that. Neiman Gracie said that he was offered a fight against Dylan Danis and Dylan wants to fight on pay-per-view but it's a spike fight. He said thanks but no thanks. And he doesn't even know who Neiman Gracie is and he wants to debut after September. There's all kinds of stuff going on. We've been on the air for like four hours already. There's a lot of going on. But you know what? It's possibility I'd have to go back and talk to my guys and see. Do you want him in on the New York card? I think we're offering him a spot but you know we're at the way to see if we get the opponents together. Okay. Any other fights you want to break for us?

No, that's it. That's it. That's the good one. James Galaher against Shenzhou Machita. Yeah, it's going to be a great fight. Wow, and that's on Spike. That's going to be a non-televised portion as well? Or is it going to be a streaming portion from 6 to 8? And then 8 to 10. And then 8 to 10 will be the Spike Bellator 180 show.

And then the pay-per-view will start at 10 p.m. Eastern. Why is Bellator putting on a pay-per-view? You are owned by Spike TV Viacom. You've been a free TV product. for the most part, except for one show. Why go into pay-per-view? I mean, if you look at the history of Bellatory, it was a pay-per-view product before I got here.

Huh. You know, right? With King Moe and Rampage. Well, just one time. Yeah, one time. And, you know, there's some changes, and I came in. And we said, guys, you know, we're really not ready for this type of business right now. But if you want to put the building blocks together and invest in the roster,

I think you guys get there. So now we feel like we're ready to go. Is it different? terms of like, because I said when I digested the news, it actually broke right as we were saying goodbye last week that the pay-per-view was happening. And I said, wow, I'm surprised that it's happening so soon, Spike, Viacom, their TV company, why are they doing this? And then I started thinking, okay, it's probably very expensive to run MSG, right? Is it not a very expensive venue? Yeah, MSG is, it's the most, it's the most, world's the famous arena. And it's probably one of the

costly most costly arena. Could you give us a ballpark? Oh no, I don't want to talk about that. Fair enough.

But it's worth it. I mean, you are in the mecca of the planet here. And come on, Ali Frazier. Yeah. We asked them today,

can you please bring the Ali Frazier scale? We want our guys to jump on the scale that they jumped on. For the official way in? For the official way in. Are they going to do it? They said they're going to look for it.

Wow. I think they have it. I think it's there. I think I've seen it. Yeah. So we're going to make, I mean, come on. That's like,

Alley Fasier came in. Gives me goosebumps. I was like, wow, I was such a big boxing fan. And the pay-view, just so you know, is 49-95. Okay, it is. So there you go. So you're breaking two pieces of news. Yeah, 49-95.

There you go. And how did you decide on the price point? And is that going to be universal? Because I think for the first pay-per-view, some providers actually made it cheaper. You know what? Some providers, I think they have the ability to choose and pick and whatever. But the suggested retail price is $49-95. HD?

Yes. Okay, so my theory was MSG-G-P, Plus, someone has to pay for these big free agents. Like, there's no, I mean, Chale, Vandrelet, Fador, Mitreone, Larkin, Chandler recently signed a new deal. Like, you can't just give away these guys for free, right? I think you have to look back at, you know, like, for instance, Chil Stone, and he was a pay-per-view star. Yeah. Right. Van der Leigh-Silva is a pay-per-view star.

You know, Fadour could have been a pay-per-view star, right, if he was fighting in America more. But, you know, these guys should continue to be fighting on pay-per-view. And that's how I feel. And then it gives us an opportunity to showcase our guys. you know, the young guys underneath and really make it a very, you know, entertaining card from top to bottom because it goes back to the philosophy, like, you know, we're going to do the

legend fights from time to time, right? And we're going to do the fun fight. And, I mean, the hardcore fights that the fans want to see, the hardcore fans want to see. So this fits right in that wheelhouse, right? I mean, this is like, you know, perfect for that. Yeah. That kind of vision. So we're going to stay with that.

And that's worked. And to me, it's like, Look, if Chalosona wins and Fader wins, hey, he's already told me he wants to fight Fador. So maybe that fight goes together. That's a pay-per-view worthy fight card. Yeah. I mean, fight. So to me, it's like this. We're not going to do like, you know, other companies where we have to do one every month or every other month.

We're going to do pay-per-view when the fights are big enough and we feel like we have an event that's big enough to do pay-per-view. So whether that's twice a year or three times a year or once a year, we'll do more like the boxing model. There's no set. Okay. We'll be like the boxing model. Okay. So when the fights are, you know, you know, being built up to the point where we should be doing, then we'll do it. But we're not going to be forced into, you know, because otherwise I've been thinking it becomes irrelevant.

Yeah, yeah. It's like just, you're doing it just to do it. Right. And is it really a pay-per-view worthy card? You know, that's really, I don't want to be in that situation. I want to be in a situation where, just like boxing, when the fights built up big enough, then we'll go for it. But you look at like Triple G and Daniel Jacobs, great fight. One of the best fights of the year.

Only sold 170. Yeah. What is a successful? Chale, Chale said $500,000 would kind of be like a bummer. I was like, what? Are you insane? You got to love Chale, huh? I mean, he's just amazing.

I told my guys, don't ever book me after Chale. He's such a good, you know, schmoozer. But what is realistic? Can you tell us? Yeah, I mean, listen, I think the last one didn't do what Chil was saying that it did. I think he was saying it did 280. Yeah. I think it did less than that.

But, you know, I mean, to me. Did it do less than 100? No, no, it did more than 100. Oh, it did. But the thing is, like, if we could come out of the blocks and be in the 200 range, that's respectable. Okay. And that's, I think, a goal that's obtainable.

I respect you for saying that. How close was Chal to fighting Fador? In my mind, not at all. It wasn't. In his mind, he was hoping, you know. But the reason, Erra, we didn't do it was, because we knew we were coming here to do this. By then you knew. I already knew.

It's running the work. So I'm like, chill. I couldn't tell him, like, you know, this is... Why do you keep your card so close to your best like that? These guys are telling me about signing contracts. They don't even know the opponent. At first I thought it was BS, but now I've heard it three times. Yeah.

true. I mean, to me, it's like, you know, it's so easy to get that information out there. Yeah. And then it becomes diluted sometimes, you know, if the information is out there. You're like Donald Trump with the leaks. I wouldn't say that. But, you know, to me it's like, you know, we have a certain plan and certain thing, and we had a plan for jail. And the plan was to fight Vanley Silva in the summertime. And let's say, he fought Fader. He's fighting on a one-day notice. Fader was ready to fight. Yeah. And so, you know, would the commission clear him and would they, you know, allow him to fight? We did to pull up his medicals, and it would have just been a lot of headache.

And then in the back of my mind, I was thinking, you know what? This guy has the biggest fight of his life coming up, you know, in three, four months. He doesn't know a lot of this yet. You weren't tempted to tell him? I was. I was. I was like, Joe, just trust me. I got something for you.

Just trust me. Sure, sure. No, this is something big. You're going to love it. It's going to be fantastic. Considering how big that fight was and that it was taking place in San Jose, was that maybe the toughest night of your career that it didn't come to fruition? I would say as a promoter, it's the first time in 31 years that the main event was lost

on the day of the fight, hours before the fight. Because if it was the day before, then we could have switch things around, even two days before. I mean, then we have plenty of time. But honestly, it's like, you know, getting that call at 2 o'clock. And it was, and Matt was a, he's a warrior. He said to me, you know, he's the phone at the hospital. And I said, Matt, we got to pull the plug.

And he said, hey, give me another hour. I think this thing's going to pass. I'll be fine. He was ready to go do this. And I said, no, no, you don't understand. Like, does it happen in 30, 40 minutes? I have to let the arena know. The fans have to know.

We have to tell everybody we had to send out a press release that this is over. And, you know, to not be in that situation ever before, it was a weird feeling because I knew I was going to walk into the stadium and the fans were, you know, going to be expecting to see Fador. And that was something that I really, you know, was dreading kind of walking into that venue. But, you know, the guys at the arena did a great job. they put up all the signs, said Fader's not going to fight the main event.

We offered refunds to, you know, a lot of hands. Did a lot of people take you up on that? I think that there's a certain part of the, like, the community that came from a lot of Russian community, came just to see Fador. Oh, man. You know, so, you know, it... I met a group of journalists who flew from St. Petersburg

to San Jose to cover Fader, and here's the best part. Here's the best part. Then went back home and guess what? Flew to Vegas to watch Habib Nirmagamato fight, and then he got pulled. Two fights? Two weeks.

I know. Isn't that crazy? That's insane. It's a Russian conspiracy, man. I'm telling you. Yeah, what's going on? I mean, come on. Like I said, it's the first time in 31 years.

I mean, it's just a weird feeling. But, you know, we're past it. And you know what? I think that it was just meant for him to fight at Madison Square Garden, you know, which he's excited. He's excited. Is he here? Yeah, he's here.

Why is it Vanderley coming tomorrow? Van der Leigh has chosen to stay and trained. And, you know, Fader was here, already booked. It just worked out perfect timing because Fader is here for the Chicago fan fest. So he's going to Chicago. after this. Yeah, so he's going to Chicago. So he was already booked and, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so we actually said, well, Fader's going to be there. Why don't we just, you know, have the press conference and announce a fight and while Fador is here and then we'll bring

man in. And then we offered to fly Van der Leigh. But he said, look, I've been gone for three years and I don't want to leave. I want to train. Wow. Are you upset? I mean, to me, it's like, you know, you like the fighters to get media, but you know what? In the back of my mind, when I look at Chale versus Tito, right, I think about it, it's like he hadn't fought for such a long time. And I told him after the fight. And I told him after the fight, I said, Chelle, you have nothing to be ashamed of, man. You know what? I think you took the fight. You didn't have enough time to train to ramp up, you know, to really take a fight at this

level. And Tito came in the best shape. I've ever seen him the last 10 years, probably. This guy came and he is in Tito's mind. Like, you're going to have to beat his mind, not just his body. And so with, with Chale, I said, it wasn't enough time. But, you know, with Vandale, you know, and I told him he's going to fight, now you'll have the ramp up time to go fight this guy properly. Okay. You know, and so, that's basically what, you know, Van Lee's saying is like, look, I don't want to start like doing all these other, I want to just show up and fight.

And so. You know what? I'm impressed. I'm impressed. That's pretty amazing. I mean, MSG, MMA hour. We're kind of on a different level. I get it.

I understand. I understand. I mean, look at you, man. When I first came to do interviews with you, you were just in a tiny, like, coffee shop in the corner, you know, doing this little thing. Now you're big time, bro. Look at me. Yes. I got three fake walls, some toys.

I mean, I've really come a long way. No, but, I mean, honestly, but, you know, the, the commitment and the, and the love you have and the passion you have for me. Thank you. It's impressive, man. I really, you know, I'm happy for you and I appreciate it. I've done a great job and, and keep going, man. It's been amazing. Okay, I'm not letting you off the hook here.

Oh, what are we talking about? Showering me with accolades. Are you going to still be in the Josh Kostech business? That's up to him. I mean, really, it's like, you know, I mean, that's a tough one, man. It's like, I feel like it's probably maybe time to let it go. You know, really, we had, we had high hopes, honestly. Yeah, daily.

Yeah, we thought we could put him in. But I think the body just is not there anymore. I think it might be time to let it go. But that's up to him, you know, because let's say, we say, okay, it's over. We don't want to do it. We can't do it anymore. You know, he's going to go fight somewhere else. He's going to fight in another league.

Or, you know, he's going to, if he really wants to fight, he's going to keep fighting. I think that, you know, we should probably have a sit down conversation and really, to talk through it and say, you know, what are the goals you? for the next four or five years. I mean, you have a great business. Yeah. He's got an amazing business. Hey, go focus on the business, build your next career and teach and train and work out,

but to fight on a competitive level, especially, you know, in our league or another, you know, it's going to be tough, man. There's some killers out there. What about Thompson? I mean, Josh, I think that, you know, we have a couple more fights for him, I think. I think he can still throw it down a bit. But let's face it, you know, it's like I was even hanging out with Gilbert Melendez at the last fight.

and he's, you know, we're promoting Carrie, his wife. Yeah, yeah. And he goes, you know, I know this is the fourth quarter for me, you know. Gilbert said that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They know. They know. They know.

They know, the body's not the same. Doesn't perform as well. You know, doesn't rebound as well. They know it's in the fourth quarter. And, you know, it's, I said, hey, you may have an overtime in cover these games. Oh, wow. You know, so you never know. No, you never know.

Careers can be rebuilt. Sure, sure. You know, it's, it's, but it's, when you get to that point where the body's not responding and just, you know, it's, I mean, it's having a hard time moving his arms. I'm talking about, you know, some of the other fighters. You just can't, it's time, man.

It's time to let it go. How tempted are you to try to book Tito Ortiz versus Ryan Bader? Because I feel like, with all due respect, that's a bigger fight than Davis Bader too. Yeah, you know, I mean, Tito is officially retired. Is he? Are you going to try? I feel like you're not Scott Coker if you don't try.

Let me tell you what I think will happen. Okay. I'll call Tito Ortiz up and I'll say, hey, what about fighting Ryan and Bader? He'll say, why, I already beat him. If it was the other way around, then he'd be like, okay, I've got to come back and fight this guy. But he's like, you know, I checked that box already years ago.

So give me somebody else. You know, that's... You think he's still open? I don't know. I think he's enjoying his life. I mean, the guy's on a boat every day out fishing and, you know, hanging out, you know, with his family. I think he's enjoying his time.

The Rampage Jackson situation, it plays out this Friday on Spike TV. It's at the Allstate Arena, Rosemont, Illinois. just to be exact. Yeah, thank you. And by the way, we've got Noad La Hats hat right over there. How about that? Who said, I don't love Bellator? I mean, it's right over there.

Israel's own. You should have come to Israel. I know, that was a cool scene. I mean, amazing trip. Yeah. We took the whole, you know, the production crew. Oh, yeah. And all the fighters, we ran out of a bus and we had a tour guy take us to Jerusalem the next day.

The magical place, right? It was unbelievable. Yeah. It was really powerful. And my honeymoon there. many moons ago. I'd like to go back with my kids. But my question is, Rampage, this is a weird situation. He was on my show in January and he said, if I want to keep fighting after this fight, I have to go back to the UFC because I sign a deal.

I can't even entertain another offer. I have a deal with them that I have to play out. Is that accurate? I think that's accurate. Wow. Isn't that weird? That's fine. I mean, but here you are booking him against Moe, big fight. Fight. But if he beats Moe and then he leaves, it's kind of a. The way I look at it, it's like we want to put our best foot forward,

put on the fight that the fans want to see. And if he beats Mo, then that's what it is. And Mo can move back down to 205, you know, and Rampage. Listen, this is a fight that I feel like it should happen. It needed to happen. King Moe wanted to do it. Rampage wasn't as much into it, but, you know, he's just going to hump my leg. But I said, look, but this is a fight that we can promote.

And really, I think we'll do good ratings and we'll show well. Will you address this on the show on the telecast? because I feel like sometimes when we break down the fourth wall, it actually makes it more interesting. Like I feel like by talking about this on the show today, we're actually upping the ratings. I'm doing you a favor. Thank you very much.

I mean, I feel like sometimes the contract stuff is taboo on TV. Yeah. But I think it's interesting. Well, I think that, you know, we don't go out and talk about our business practices, you know, on the broadcast.

Say this is Rampage's last fight. He has to go out on top, you know, like something like that. No, but here's the thing is that, you know, is it really his last fight with us? Maybe he goes and fights and fights and, you know, and two fights or three fights, whatever. He can be back here eight months or a year.

You know, what I'm saying is you never know about the future. Sure. And you always keep the door open. How's your relationship with him? Good. Because, you know, he just said, I don't know if you saw this clip of him on ESPN, where he said the biggest regret of his career is actually starting an MMA career. A very powerful thing to say.

It seems like sometimes he has this love-hate relationship with the sport and promoters and people around the sport. And so I was wondering if you have that trust, if you were able to build that report with him. You know, all I like to say is, like, we've been honest with him at front with him and you know and how you know he interprets that information or whatever I mean you know it was a rocky road in the very beginning

but now it's fine I mean and if he looks back on his life and he regrets that I feel bad for him you know but I don't know was it a rampage you're talking to or was it Quentin Jackson oh I don't know they did the interview you need to figure that there's a difference yeah you need to figure that one okay all right fair enough do you have I feel like you have a rabbit

you still have a rabbit to pull out of your hat for MSG I mean you know I think we've already pull some great rabbits out of head. But you always have like a left field, like a Herschel, a Gina. You always have something. No, this one's going to be a great,

just, you know, what you see is what you get. And we have some other fights we're going to announce that I think will be sizable. Any hands? No hints. Okay. We give me one today or right. I know.

You can't get greedy. I am very greedy. I am very greedy. Have you tried to get Gina at a fight? We had a conversation with her, but she's doing such a great job in her, you know, acting career. Think about Deadpool. Yeah, yeah.

And she's got, she's had some great. success. But I see her in the front row her boyfriend fights for you, right, for Beltor kickboxing. You've never said, one fight, we'll make it fun, we'll get a good opponent. That'd be a big deal. All I told was this. I said, look, Gina, if you ever want to do it, I won't say no.

Yes. And what did she say? She's smiled. I'll let you know. You know, I'll let you know, whatever. Do you think the ship has sailed? I think that as long as she's landing movie rolls, which she is, it's going to be tough. You know, it's, you know, they're very busy. She's making good money. And, you know, it's, you know, it's, it's, you know, I think she's let it go already.

Okay. Spike. But she does train. Yes, I see. Well, that's why I see I see on Instagram. Yeah, she's training. She's a martial artist and that's what I really like about her. Right.

You know, she's continued to, you know, to try to get better. Whether she competes on a, you know, on a level, you know, like our league or, you know, or whatever, she's like, it's going to be up to her, but, you know, she doesn't have to, you know. To me, she's, she's living the life of a, of a professional fighter. and an actress. That's really what she wants to do. Do you remember your first press conference at MSG? Yes.

That was the one that was it the one with Gina and Cyborg? Yes, that's right. And then you had the outdoor cage. That's right. And Gina and Cyborg, we built this half cage. Yep. And it had the Empire State Building in the back trial. It was great.

Yeah, it was amazing. That was a lot of funny head, Phil Nurse. In fact, I was here at the, I'm sorry, I was here at the arena today. And they said, hey, do you remember that time we built the cage out front right here? Yeah. I'm next to Pennsylvania Avenue. And you guys did your little thing. And I said, yeah, I remember that was Gina Carano and Cyborg.

Anything like that plan for tomorrow? No, tomorrow is the opportunity to, you know, meet the fighters. Sure. And we are, and Vanley will be there. He will not be there in person. Okay. We are bringing him in a satellite. Okay.

So hopefully Chale will engage with him that time. You will be able to talk to him. He'll be able to hear you. Oh, wow. We're being a satellite. This is like Sean Spicer things when he brings in a journalist via Skype. Yeah, that's right. will Chales square off with him?

Oh yeah, we're going to have the TV turn this way and we'll just turn it that way? Is it open to the public? It is not. Okay. I wanted to ask you, Spike is becoming the Paramount Network? Yes, I think in the beginning of next year. How does that affect you?

It doesn't affect us at all. It doesn't. No. So Bellator will just be on the Paramount Network. So Belator will be on the Paramount Network instead of the Spike TV Network. I mean, is the sort of direction of the network changing? Is it a different audience, the guys thing

and all that? Yeah, you know what? That's something I would talk to, Kevin. Okay. Can you call him up? Like, Chale called Dana? I could, but my phone's off. Okay.

But we will sit on there. And, you know, what I'm excited about is, like this pay-per-view, I mean, how many different networks do they have? You know, Vycom are talking about that can, you know, cross-promote. Right. This show. So I think you'll see more promotion on this fight than any Bellator fight ever. The UK fans would kill me if I don't ask you about their TV situation. Okay.

So you're not on in Ireland, correct? We are. We are on in Ireland. I think there's, it's Spike U.K. Errors in Ireland. Yeah. But I don't. Not everyone gets it.

Is that what it is? They're very upset. Oh, are they? Yes. Okay. They're very upset. They can't watch your product. They want to watch your product.

They want to support it. You didn't know this. I saw a scrum where you were asked about it, but I don't think you really knew everything. I thought, you know, because when I asked, when I asked Spike TV, I said, you know, are we in Ireland? they go, yeah, we're in Ireland. And so I just thought we recovered. Maybe he didn't know, maybe I don't know. We had to figure this out.

Okay. So you don't have an update on the TV situation? No, I don't. But I think that we are in the whole country, you know? But maybe it's on like a premium channel. No, I think it's on Spike U.K. Well, these people aren't lying to me. What are they saying?

Well, we'll get a tweet here very shortly because I got a ton of people asking me to ask you about this. Okay, let me ask you about another situation. So sometimes it's frustrating as a fan of the sport when you're on tape delay. And then your people will always tell me. I'll have your people text me. Hey, look at our ratings. They're just as good when we're on tape delay. So shove it.

But it's 2017. Oh, trust me, a lot of people. It's 2017. I'm going to talk to my team right away. As I get back, we're going to have little conversations. Sports need to be live. Right. How come when you're overseas, you're via tape delay?

and how come when you're here in America, West Coast is taped delay? Why? Well, Belcher 180 will not be taped delay. Wow. It'll be live. Another piece of news. Yes, it'll be live.

No matter the time. No matter the time. So 5 p.m. Pacific? It'll be... 5 to 7? No, no, it'll be on at 8 o'clock. So 5 to 7. Yeah, sorry.

So 5 to 7, it'll be on both coasts. Wow. Why this time? Because you want the people to knock. Coens out with the pay-per-view, right? You don't want to watch. I think this is just the beginning of that. Because let me tell you, everybody is aware of the situation.

And it's just a matter of, you know, trying to get clearances from all these different, you know, outlets, sort of speak. And but I know that I think it's the Italy show that we are going live. Really? That would be live here. And live that way is top because it's four in the morning. Sure. Five in the morning. So, but I know that there's going to be a conscious.

effort to eventually make it live live everywhere we go. Okay. Yeah. That is the plan. That is the goal. Yes. It's better that way. I agree.

And then you can replay it after. Of course. Are you happy with the ratings? Let me tell you, I am, I am, somebody told me the other day, said, you know, last year we were up, you know, some pretty good numbers. And this year we're up, I think, I think Slesser told me we were up 62% from last year. Okay. So we're happy. So we're happy.

I mean, you know, I'm happy. Kevin's happy and everybody's happy. and I think that it comes down to this. Look, we put the fights on, and it's fun, and we love it, I have a great team. But really, it comes to Kevin Kay's commitment, you know, and Viacom's commitment to this product. And I'm telling you, from the top down, I mean top, you know, way top,

to the very bottom, they're, these, Viacom is into this, man. They are really behind this product, and they want to grow, and they want to, you know, they want to go after it like nobody's business. So clearly, I mean, you're signing all these. these fighters. Yeah, exactly. You have to have their support. Yeah.

And they have, you know, Ariel, they have never said to me, no, we don't want to do that or we don't want to do this. You know, they always said, hey, if you believe this will help the company, then we should do it. Okay. So, you know, we have an ownership group that, you know, is very committed. Let's put it that way. Do you have a salary cap? Like, can you not go over a certain amount? Yeah, we have built in, you know, parameters of how we're going to operate under the, you know, like a yearly budget.

Okay. But if there's been times where it succeeded that, and I went to the board and said, this is what we want to do, this is why, this will be the outcome of how we, you know, what we think will happen. And we've always, you know, got the green light. By the way, they're telling me here that it's Spike U.K., you're right, but it doesn't air live. It airs usually 24 hours later, a week later. That is true. So do they want, I mean, they clearly want this. Is it possible to change it to where they can get it at least?

We're definitely working on that. Okay. And both ways, because I think that some of the fights that we air internationally over the next two weeks, we'll air live here as well. Okay. Will the paper view be live? But it's four in the morning. Yeah, but these fans are crazy. I mean, they stay up all hours to watch this stuff.

Yeah, but it's four in the morning there and when the air is, four in the afternoon. Yeah. It's tough because, yeah. It's tough. What about the pay-per-view? Will that be available to everyone? Yeah, that's going to be available worldwide? Instantaneously.

I mean, we're going to distribute to. our distribution partners. Yeah. So there's going to be 140 countries around the world that will distribute this product. And, you know, and then we have the United States of Canada on pay-per-view. Do you like the name Bellator? Yeah, I mean, it's, let me tell you. You kind of missed, do you miss Strike Force?

Okay, listen, when I first came, I'm going to be very honest with you. Please. When I first came into the company, you hated it. I was like, man, I really love Strike, I really love that name Strike Force, you know? And then, you know what? It was like, it's something that just really. start growing, you know, and then I said, you know what, this is going to be Striped Force 2.0, but we're just going to call it Bellator.

Okay. So now I feel like it's, you know, really ingrained in me and... You've grown to love it. Yeah, grown to love it. You're not trying to change it, rebrand it. No, no. Belator is... Because think about it, what did it mean three years ago? Right.

Right. And, you know, you're around to what it means today. It's a much different product than it was three years ago. Did you have a bit of a chuckle when you saw Bjorn Rebony resurface, part of this association? And then he told me on this show that he doesn't watch the product. And I don't believe that. You know what?

I'll tell you, I just think that, like, to me, it didn't make any sense. Okay. You know, it just didn't make any sense for a lot of different reasons. And so I would just like to leave it with that. Didn't make sense? It just didn't make sense to me. I mean, you know, it's, I don't know.

I don't want to get into that, but it was interesting. Let's sort of that way. Do you think that will ever happen in the sport, an association? I don't think there's anything wrong with it. I just think that it has to be the right people. the right people backing it, the right people leading it. Yeah. And, you know, it has a chance.

But this is an individual sport, you know, like if you go to your top fighters and you say, hey, you can't fight next Saturday. You have to pick it or you have to support, you know, these guys fight twice a year. Yeah. They make their money two or three times a year. You might not have a, you might not get a good answer back, you know, and what you're asking them to do. So this is not a team sport where there's a collective bargaining agreement and there's a, you know, like a union could live in tennis. Happens in tennis.

They picketed it very famously in the 70s. Okay. Yeah. See, I didn't know that. I'm not a tennis guy. But, you know, when I look at boxing, this is kind of like boxing. Hey, Floyd, you should just sit out this fight. You know, you know what the answer is going to be.

It's not going to be a very nice answer. But my point is, these are guys are individual athletes, you know, fighting for their families. And when you ask them to not fight, I don't think you're going to hear a good answer. I don't care who's asking them. So they're going to have to find how they get through that. that part, you know, to take this union to the next level. Speaking of Floyd, do you think it happens, him versus Connor? I hope so.

You do? Why? I mean, it's like, you know, it's been built up so much. Yeah. I want to see it, you know, and to me it's like, you know, I'll be the, I'll be the first guy to buy tickets, you know? You're going to be there. I'd love to be there. You're going to be sitting there in the front row, Scott Coker.

What a scene that would be? I know, wouldn't that be great? Yes. I would love to go because, look, Connor is special. Yeah. He's done a lot of great things athletically. But, man, he can just talk and talk and talk and talk and talk. And I love that.

I love characters. Other fighters have become characters like Jail or, you know, different. I love that. And to me, it goes back to my, you know, my Japanese roots and, you know, being a dynamite and seeing, what's his name, Nogura. Yeah. Fight Bob Sapp. Yeah. Yeah.

Tell me, that wasn't the first fun fight. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? In the history of, like, M.A. I mean, not in history, but it was the first one that I saw that was fun. famous, right? Sure. And to me, it's like, you know, these guys become characters and Connor's become, you know,

this bigger-than-life guy. And to me, why wouldn't I want to see it? Will you root for Connor because he's representing M.MA or you don't really view it that way? Oh, you know, I'm like, let the best fighter win. I would, I would, you know, to me as a martial arts guy, I would. Sure, that's true. I would vote for Connor. That's right.

That's right. But to me, it's like, I would sit there, man, I would just have my water in my hand. I'm like, let's just. Water, no beer? No, I don't drink. You don't drink. That's right. We have that in common.

Yeah. Do you think he wins? Does he have a chance? I think that, you know, listen, when two guys are gloving it up and throwing down, you never know. Some people said, hey, this is like celebrity boxing. This is like, you know, a sparring session for Mayweather. And to Mayweather's credit, I mean, he's super hard to hit. Manny Pacchio couldn't hit him.

And he's, you know, people have a hard time hitting him. But all it takes is, you know, one, two punches, man. It could change the whole game. So to me, I hope that fight happens. And I hope to get through all the legal stuff or all the, political stuff and may happen because they give my 99 bucks. Yeah, you think it's going to be that much? Floyd's last fight was what, $99?

So, you know. Okay, just a couple more things, and then we'll let you go and we have to run because we go. Chil took all my time. I get it. We've been going four hours and ten minutes here. We don't take breaks on this show, Scott. That's amazing.

And I could go another four, but they would kill me back there. They hate it. They always tell me to hurry up, hurry up, blah, blah, blah. So, okay, so right now with Chale, fighting MSG as a promoter, is this when you have to really flex your mind? muscles. In other words, how big of a blow was his loss to Tito? And not so much because he lost, but because afterwards people were criticizing his physique, the way he fought, calling it a fix

fight, all this stuff. Like, do you really have to re-educate the crowd? Like, this guy is really good. I think that, you know, when you buy pay-per-view is you're buying the card. Okay. Or buying the event. Yeah. But saying that, I think that Chale versus Vandali, that's a fight everybody wants to see. That's a fight I wanted to see two, three years ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, these guys are fighting in the, in the parking. lot, you know, let alone, you know, inside of a cage. So I think by the time the fight gets here, fans are going to want to see this fight. Okay. And, you know, jail, the whole thing about, you know, you know, fixing the fight. That's total, you know, you know how I feel about that.

Sure. And, uh, were you, were you, insulting. I mean, how pissed. I was, I was offended as an MMA fan that people, that smart people that I respect were saying this. Yeah. This is your company. This is your reputation. Yeah, yeah. And the thing about it is, it's always starts with some commentator from the other guys that starts, these rumors, right? And I'm like, come on, man. Do you really think that we put 31 years of being a fight promoter on the line? You go to jail. Jeopardize our bond. Jeopardize our promoters license. Because we're, I mean, it's just such, it's so ludicrous. It's almost, I feel like it's blatant. Do you know what I mean? Like this, it's an attack. It's an attack done on purpose.

Was that below the belt? Because you're usually very respectful. Come on, man. It's like, it's just so silly that it doesn't make sense. So I'm thinking this is a tactical attack by these, by the sky. Yeah. And so to me, it's like, I just, I totally, I totally, I totally, I sent out a Viacom legal. I said, look, this guy is disparaging us. He is a person that is in the media, so people listen to it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you should send us to London offices and see what they can do.

What they do? I think they're still, you know, doing it. You're taking this seriously. When Van der Leight said that about the UFC, what did the UFC do? It's a great point. Because your reputation's on the line, right? Yeah. And think about it.

And that's really at the end of the day, what you have is your reputation. And so to me, it's like, look, we don't attack people. We're just trying to grow our business and go do our business. And that's been my philosophy. And for people to attack us, most of the time I'm just like whatever. But this one, I felt like this is a blatant attack. It has to be addressed. And people need to know that we're going to take this kind of accusation very seriously.

Yeah. And it seems to come up a lot. Like, I don't know. Maybe it's because the production looks a little WW-ish. And I like it. I like being different. But why do you think that is? Why, like when Kimbo fought Shamrock, people said this?

I have no idea. But the thing about it is like, come on. It's like, if they stopped and thought about it, they don't know. Well, if anything, you'd want Chale to win the fight. If you were going to fix a fight. Well, think about it. Then you go, right? Because Cito's going to retire.

Sure. You know, it's like, you know, you would have it go the other way if you were fixing fights. But, you know, Chale's a guy that got caught, you know, and he hadn't fought in how long, you know. Four years, yeah. So he was a little bit probably not in the best shape that he would like to be in. That's why I told him after the fight, said, like, don't worry about this, you know. You're going to be fine. Just keep training.

Go back to the gym. And keep doing what you're doing because we're going to have a big fight for you. We're going to tell you about it in a couple months. And here we are, June 24th. Are you going to book Matt Hughes versus Hoyst Gracie? No, that fight has not been talked about. Okay. Are you interested in Matt Hughes?

No, we haven't talked to him about fighting. No? He put out a thing. What do you say? He said that he has talked to a promoter and he hinted at a Hoyce Gracie fight, and Hoyce has said that he'd like to fight him as well. Okay. Is there any interest?

Well, I mean, I think we have a lot on our plate this year. Okay. And I'm not sure that that fight would fall, you know, in that schedule. What about Chuck Liddell? I mean, who would you want to see him fight? I don't really want to see him fight anyone, to be honest. Well, there you go. But what about you?

It's all my decision. I mean, it's, you know, I mean, Chuck. Have you talked to him? Not about fighting, no. About what? We just had a quick conversation about doing some stuff for us at Fan Fest. Okay. Will he be doing that?

We had one conversation. And that was it. We haven't, I have to follow up on, you know, on, but, you know, we thought, look, you know, we have these fan fest. We bring all the legends out. It doesn't matter what you're from. Yeah. You know, we bring Sakarabha from Japan. You know, we bring UFC fighters, you know, Pride fighters, you know, Star Force fighters. You know, something where the fans can interact and meet them. And they really appreciate it, man. These fans love it. Yeah. You know, that's a great idea. You get two or three thousand people show up. Really? You know, an autograph signing. So thanks, but no thanks to Hughes. Right? Is that accurate? I think that's accurate. And let's end on this. Around a year ago, this time, you were coming off the data 5,000 fight.

That was not a great night. I mean, it was potentially a scary night for everyone involved, right? Yep, I agree. Did you think that a year later you'd be in this position where all of a sudden it feels like you're like the darlings of the MMA world? This is back to Strike Force where it feels like everyone's kind of openly rooting for you guys. And the media, the fans, people are kind of willing to. you to the top, or at least to be in that conversation. Did you think when all that was going down with Kimbo and Dada, I mean, that could have been

a major, that could have been the end, right? A year later, you'd be in this position? You know, I think that certain circumstances, you know, since that time has kind of unfolded, you know, and one was the sale of the company. Yeah, that changed a lot. Yeah, it did. You know, and the fighters, it changed a lot for the fighters, too. I think there are some bitter athletes, you know, out there saying, hey, you guys,

you know, made all this money, $4 billion. and we're still stuck here in this contract. And I think that changed to people's mind. And it made the phone start ringing. The Reebok deal was the original one that made the phone start ringing. And then the sale of the company, then that was the next. You've noticed a difference. I've noticed a difference.

Wow. Yeah. Because fighters are creatures of comfort or habit. And so they like to do the same routine. You know, like when they go to camp, they're doing the same guys, same family, same. And when the family changes, you know, then it's like, you know, they're, well, maybe I should go talk to, you know, my old boss, right? Or my, you know, go talk to Belator. The grass is greener type of thing. But at the end of the day, you know what it comes down to. And I told these guys, look, you know, whether you stay, you know, at, you know, at, you know, at the U.S.C. or you come to Belator, right?

It's good for the industry. Sure. Because you're going to ultimately get paid more. Yeah. Right? You're going to help elevate, you know, your financial situation for you and your family. Because you have two bidders now. If you only had one bidder, you know, maybe you wouldn't be getting as much as you are now.

So to me, it's good for the industry to have somebody else out there that can pay these athletes what they deserve. And, you know, and I think they're appreciative of it. And I think that they see how many people have come over, you know. So it's just making people, you know, say, oh, well, I should go check it out, you know. Well, I've noted this last week. I've seen this from Bader, from Roy McDonald. People want to almost go to bat for you because they're. so appreciative of you giving them this opportunity where they're like openly coming out of their

shell like McDonald's tweeting a storm and I can't wait for his debut May 19th. They believe it is against Paul Daly. I mean, it feels like they're really very appreciative. Who's next by the way? Who's next? Who's on the radar? I'm not sure, but I mean, here's the thing. You got a radar. We're not going to talk to a fighter until they're free. You can't. You can't, yes. Until they're free. Sure. Because listen, that's, you know, we're not going to get into any kind of, you know. Sure. Tampering. I mean, that's silly. We're just going to sit back and wait. Okay. You know, because I'll tell you, we're on this for the long haul.

This is not something that happens a year or two, three. You know, I mean, this is going to be a company that has to be here for years and years and years to come. Wow. All right. Great way to end it. Great. That was a lot of fun. Yes.

Anything else that we didn't touch on that you'd like to address? No, listen, I think that it's been a great year for Bellator. Yeah. And, you know, the ratings, the sponsorship, the international fights that we're doing. Everything's been going fantastic. And I look forward to the, you know, 2000, the rest of 17 and into 18 and beyond because we're doing some, We're doing some fun stuff. I mean, it's been a fun year.

Yeah. And, you know, we just feel fortunate to have you finally come to one of our fights. Oh, stop. I haven't come. Well, you will, right? Things can change. What? What?

What about that right there? Shamrock Diaz on the table. You see that? You know what? I'll tell you a story about that. You've done it all, Scott. I'll tell you a story about this case. Okay, please, please.

So a week before the fight, Frank says, hey, I just, I ripped my cartilage off my bone for this fight. Oh, no. I said, we're going to call the fight off. He says, no, no, I don't want to, just let me see how. So he was, he was really hurt when he took that fight. Wow. He goes, he goes, I want to do it because I want to do it. I said, Frank, just stop.

Like, you know, this is enough. He says, no, no, I'm going to do this. And so he got to the fight. If you know, it's the first body shot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember. April 11, 2009, am I right? Look at that.

I didn't even look at it. Oh, you look at every day. No, no, no. You know why? Because that felt like a turning point for Strike Force. That was on Showtime. That was your first, like, mega, event on Showtime, right?

And it kind of feels like what this is in a way. You had these guys come in from Elite XC, you're putting them together. It feels very reminiscent. Yeah, that was a great fight. And then, you know, I tell you, my most favorite fight is Daily. Of course.

That was amazing. That was amazing. I know, but still, the fight was amazing. Were you there? Of course I was there. Dana showed up with the Strike Force shirt. Remember that? Lorenzo?

Yeah, we all took pictures. We all hung out. Yeah. What a fun time. I love that EA sports cup with favor on it. That's amazing. You love this studio, right? I love it.

This is fantastic. We've got all kinds of things here. You know who gave me that? The Ronda Rousey thing. Judo Gene LaBelle gave me that. The man. Yeah, this is some great stuff, man. Great memorabilia.

Is it true, by the way, that what Chale said, like, oh, Dana kind of realized you're a very smart guy. I'm not going to keep this guy involved. Like, they kind of put you off to the side. No, you know what? I mean, I think that, listen, when I got there, you know, I had gotten there through the sale of the company, right? Yeah, it was so weird.

So I think both sides knew. I knew. There's going to be a big inning. a middle and end to this relationship. You know what I mean? Yeah. And so, you know, I'm saying, here to help if you guys need anything, you know. And they would ask me from time to time to, you know, speak to Tarwoodley or speak to, you know,

speak to, D.C., you know, guys that had good relationships with. And, but, you know, as far as, like, you know, moving to Vegas and being involved, I, I, was that ever on the table? Not in my mind. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I live in the Bay Area. Right, of course. That's where I live.

Yeah, I mean, it's like the Warriors. I got to support the Warriors. How can I support the Warriors? How can I support the Warriors? I live in Vegas. Although business picking up for Las Vegas, they got the Raiders today. Did you hear that? Oh, that's amazing, huh?

Crazy, right? I wonder if Lorenzo is going to be involved. I don't know, but I'll tell you what, if I was Oakland Raider fan living in Oakland, I'd be pissed off. Hell yeah. Because I'm like, you know, 40, 50 years, 60 years of Blood Swet's Year. Montreal Expos. I know you're not a baseball guy, but I'm an Expo fan. They left to Washington.

That's terrible. It's the worst feeling. They should leave Oakland, the franchise or the Raiders, and they should give them an expansion team. That's what I think. And I'll tell you, honestly, it's like, I'm a big sports fan. And I live in the Bay Area. But ever since the, I think Oakland left in 84, I never went to none of the game. Never went back.

Never went back. Because I said, you know what? They will leave again at some point. Yeah. And here we are. Years later. Will the dubs do it? Are they going to get back on top?

Cleveland's struggling. Yeah. I mean, there's some scary teams out there. Kevin Durant's injured. Yeah, he'll be back. Coming back. He'll be back. You have front row seats.

Courtside. Of course. I have floor seats, yeah. Unbelievable. You should come out. We'll hang out. that Zufa sale it paid off well

but I've been going to go to those games I mean I saw Rick Barry shoot wow his underhand and now his son's doing it for Florida

you see that crazy right unbelievable yeah it's amazing I mean I've loved Bay Area Sports Were you at game seven last year

against Cleveland? Yes you saw the block yeah how difficult was that as a fan that was tough it wasn't so tough

because you got the championship the year before if you hadn't had the championship I did feel like come on like this guy is getting

every call on the book yeah Give us some call. Make it fair. I mean, that's all you ask for. It's fair competition. I just felt like it was a little bit one-sided. You thought it was fixed?

Didn't say fixed. Didn't say fixed. I don't want to be like those guys saying it. But I would say that sometimes the superstar gets a call. Yeah. And a little inside baseball. Not only are you active as far as free agent fighters are concerned, but also in the PR world as well, signing former UFC PR guy and Strike Force PR guy,

Ryan Grabb, right? NASCAR. He was a NASCAR guy for you. NASCAR. You've got Danny Brenner, but the real MVP is my man, CJ. That's what I heard. He's blushing somewhere. He's the best.

If you're listening, he rocking him, man. You're doing a great job. We love you over there. First time in MMA hour history for Bell to our guests on one show. All thanks to him. Thank you very much. And to my man, CJ. He does great work.

CJ is great. I mean, we love the relationship. He's been fantastic. And, you know, he's a lot of fun to be around. But like you said, he's very professional. You guys love him, but we love him as well. Well, Scott, this has been a lot of fun. I wish you the best, not only tomorrow, so let's run it down.

Tomorrow, 1 p.m. at Madison Square Garden. It's going to be a press conference with the top eight fights, top four fights and eight fighters. That will be streamed so people can watch that on MMAFighting.com. And then Friday, Spike TV, 9 p.m. It's Rampage versus King Mo 2. That's correct. And then we've got May 19th, Roy McDonnell versus Paul Daly. And, of course, the big one is June 24th at MSG.

So far we have four fights. And you heard it here first, James Galaher versus Shenzhou Machita. How exciting is that? That's going to be a great fight. I think that's going to be a good test for James. Great fight. So I have to say goodbye now. Okay.

Can you stick with me for like two minutes? Sure. Okay. You can hear my music, guys. This is fun. It's always fun to say goodbye with someone in studio. This is how I do it, Scott. I'm not quite, you know, Sean Grandi.

You know Sean Grandi, by the way? A real mensch. Do you know what he did for me, Sean Grandi? Sean Brandi knows that I'm a huge Knicks fan. Okay. And he does the radio play-by-play for the Celtics. Right. And so when he was doing preseason, October 15th this past year,

called me up and said, come do the second quarter with me on the radio. Oh, how fun is that? So I sat there in the press box with him and Cedric Maxwell, and I got to call the second quarter with those guys. You know how I mean, I've never met him. Wow. And he just texted me. He's a great guy.

I love Sean Brandy for life. He can do no wrong in my books. Yeah, yeah, he's great. Him Jimmy Smith. And I tell you, when he came to see the Warriors play last year, I went there and hung out with him and listen to the headsets. And it's a great experience to listen to the game. Oh.

As they're calling it, it's pretty amazing. He's a pro. I was blown away with how he did it. I mean, you've got to call everything when you're doing video. Right. Unbelievable. So it's him and it's Jimmy Smith and it's also Chale this Friday, right? Yes.

That's what he said. All right. I want to thank everyone who stopped by. Thank you to everyone who tuned in on this rainy Monday afternoon here in New York City. Thank you very much to Mark Tia Casey. Thank you very much to Tanya Evinter. Do you watch it, Vita? Are you fan?

I haven't watched it yet, no. Okay. You should get UFC fight pass. Thank you very much to Marlon Marais, who's a free agent, by the way. Maybe he's waiting on a call from Mr. Scott Coker. Thank you very much to King Mo Lulawal. Thank you very much to Dylan Danis.

Once again, the highest paid fighter in Bellator. His words, not mine. Thank you very much to Chal Sunnan. And thank you once again to the great Scott Coker. June 24th, Madison Square Garden. All goes down. We'll have coverage tomorrow of the press conference. Back next week.

Same time and place. Until then I say, shh, somebody out. Thank you.