MMA Fighting - The MMA Hour with Ariel Helwani - Episode 382

Episode Date: May 15, 2017

Ariel Helwani speaks to Joanna Jędrzejczyk (00:05:31), Francis Ngannou (00:32:01), Tyron Woodley (00:49:21), Rory MacDonald (01:09:00), Joanne Calderwood (01:30:43), Michael Chiesa (01:52:53), Herb Dean (02:15:14), NewYorkRic (02:42:20) for Ric’s Picks, Henry Cejudo (03:01:45), Deron Williams (03:18:06), and NewYorkRic (03:42:29) once again to recap the week in MMA. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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The meeting will begin when passenger Fisher is done celebrating. 19 plus Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Concerned by your gambling or that if someone close, you call 18665330 or visit comex Ontario.ca. It's the mixed martial arts hour with The mixed martial arts hour back in your life on this Monday, May 15th, 2017. Hogan, everyone. I'm Mario Hawani back inside our New York City studio back from the Big D back from UFC 211. What a fun trip it was.

I must say fans in Dallas, fans who were in Dallas for UFC 211, I was left impressed. Great people there. Passionate, knowledgeable, welcoming. I really appreciate all the nice comments. A lot of great people we met over there, and it really warmed my heart. So thank you very much, Adelson. As you know by now, it was a very fun card to cover.

It was a very fun card to watch. It was the best fight card on paper going into Saturday night, and I think it's safe to say it's the best fight card of the year thus far. And we started the week with 14 fights. We ended up with 12, but luckily none of the massive ones. We did lose a pay-per-view fight, and we'll talk about that a little later on in the show. But by now you know that Steve Miochich successfully defended his heavyweight title. He knocked out Junior Dos Santos in the first round.

He now ties the record for most successful consecutive heavyweight title defenses. It's just two. And I feel like he's en route to smashing that record. I mean, who's going to stop this guy at this point? He's looking very good. And if you look at the people who he has defeated, even before fighting for the belt, I think Steve A's in that conversation.

He is in that conversation for one of the best of all time. Can't call him the greatest ever just yet. It's a little premature. But one of the best of all time. And I thought that his post-fight press conference was illuminating. It was fascinating. He's starting to open up. I have a lot of thoughts about Steve Amiochich,

and we'll get to those later on in the show. Also, of course, Ioani, I'm Jaycheck. she successfully defends her strawweight title for the fifth time. One away from tying Ronda Rousey's record for women's MMA. And once again, it was a master class. She skunks, Jessica and Drudge. She is the best there is right now in women's MMA. And again, very strong case to be made for one of the best ever already.

She is amazingly impressive. We'll be talking to her in a matter of seconds. Also, you know that Frankie Edgar defeated Yehira-Ariguez. You know that Damien Maya defeated Jorge Mazvedan. We assume he is going to get a title shot next. David Branch was successful in his return to the UFC. And of course, the Eddie Alvarez and Dustin Porier fight ended in some controversy. We'll be talking about that fight as well.

There's a lot to discuss on today's show, as is usually the case after a paper view. We have a stacked program for you. Can't wait to get into it. We'll be talking about 211 throughout. There's a lot going on outside of 211. very, very busy week in the world of MMA as far as news is concerned last week. So let's get right to it.

Let me run down the lineup. And then we'll get to our first guest of the day and it's apropos to start the show with her. At 415, we'll be joined by Cleveland Cavaliers Point Guard. How about this? Darren Williams will stop by. Why is he on the show? Well, he actually owns a gym, an MMA gym, in Dallas.

And I went there. It's called Fortis MMA. He is a co-owner there with a long-time MMA coach and a former fighter named Safe Saoud, and it is a beautiful facility. It had the pleasure of visiting it. One of their fighters competed on the card on Saturday, Rashad Coulter, and he's a big MMA fan.

He's actually a former high school wrestler, state champion, and he's in the NBA playoffs, so I thought that would be very fun. So that's 415. Cavs point guard, Darren Williams, can't wait for that. 355. Henry Sohudo will stop by to talk about pulling out of 2-11 on just, you know, days notice. I mean, just 72 hours before the event he had to pull out due to a hand. injury. Talk to him about that. 305. We'll talk to Herb Dean about the controversy surrounding the

Eddie Alvarez versus Dustin Porier fight. Can't wait for that. Michael Keeso will stop by at 245 to talk about the incident with Kevin Lee at Friday's summer kickoff press conference. That should be fun. At 225, we'll talk to Joanne Calderwood. She's back. Jojo's back. You wanted to see her back. She is back. She's fighting Cynthia Calvillo in Scotland in July. Rory McDonald finally makes his Beltor debut on Friday. He'll stop by at 205. Talk about the fight against Paul Daly. 145, we'll talk to Tyrone Woodley about Damien Maez-Win. What do you thought of it? And if he is next for T. Wood.

And then at 125, we'll talk to Francis Engano about the heavyweight division has moved to Las Vegas and a whole lot more. But first, there was only one appropriate way to start off today's show. And I'm so happy that she is on the program, that she is giving us a little more of her time. As she settles down after her big win at UFC 211, the one and only, you'll want to Yawanna Yom Jacek, the reigning defending UFC Straway champion is going to join us in a matter of seconds. And I know what is on a lot of your minds, the question, and what was going on there. And if I will repent, and if I am truly a horrible human being, and why did I ask such a question about a coach to an MMA fighter? We will address all of that and a whole lot more.

And what a great night it was for Yuanian J. Chekichick. She breaks her record for significant strikes in a fight that's a male or female record. and as I mentioned, one away from tying Ronda Rousey's title defense record. She joins us now on the phone. Yanna, are you there? Yes, I'm here. I'm here. Well, thank you so much for joining us, Yana. I really appreciate it.

And as I mentioned, I think you weren't on yet. There was only one way that I wanted to start today's show. I wanted to start it with you. It's apropos. You were so dominant on Saturday. You looked so good. Congratulations on the win. But, of course, a lot of people are giving me crap for making you cry.

So I just want to say right off the top, I am sorry for making you. you cry. I said, no, no, no, it's not your fault.

I like you so much and it's always pleasure to me to talk to you. I think you are like one of the best, one of the best in this business.

Thank you. It's very nice to talk to you. But the thing is like, it was very personal. So I hope that, that's why I said to my assistant, please contact Ariel and said it's not,

not his fault. And I'm more than happy to welcome on his show on Monday. So here we go. Well, I'm happy that you, I said that, Joanna, because everyone has been making me feel like a horrible person.

How dare I? Okay. No, you are such a good person and I respect you so much and I like you. But the thing is it's very personal, you know. I went through so many difficult moments in this sport for so many years. I've been in this business for 14 years and like I said, I met so many people. So what I always do in my life, it's all about the relationship. this is what I said at the press conference

and finally I found a good gym good coaches the best people in the business single of them they are like masters of everything Mike is like he's amazing like grappler

complete MMA Kami's perfect wrestler good wrestling coach Kattel is like amazing striking coach there is Daya who is doing boxing field strength condition and the thing is like it's not it's not

It's not just about the work, but they really take care of me, you know. They are with me all the time. They ask me how I feel after the training. Before every training, we hang out together very often, and that's the thing. So I heard about Kami leaving our team, and I was not happy, but I heard about that a few days before the fight, but it was not time to think about. I didn't want to get crazy because, like I said, he's actually important person in my team, but we are more like a family clan as well, you know.

It's not just about the money. Of course, it's all about putting on great performance, on great fights, but at the end it's all about the relationship. And that's why I got so sad because this day came, you know, but the thing is, I don't know, like I said, I want to sit and talk with Dan Lambert. I want to sit and talk with Kami, with my coaches, and we're going to make decisions if they're going to,

be an option to work with Kami even he's not he's not going to be part of ITT anymore I would like to do that if not then we will have to find some other way to learn you know because it's amazing how he changed my wrestling how he changed my takedowns defense you know because you could see that in my last file you know yeah no and that's the thing I really like to work with him and I think like he's such a good person, you know, he's like master of resting, but he's, he's my master, but he's like such a good spirit, you know. Cami is like a doctor, you know, his mental support is such an amazing and this is what I like about that, you know. Before the fight, he said that I'm a lion and in this

fight I felt like a lion and I felt like because of him and Mikey and Katel and my whole team, I became better, better athlete, better person and there is lots of new, you know, things coming and I'm looking forward to work more with them. So if you're watching the show right now, a lot of people may not know who Kami Barzini is, but if you're watching, we're showing a picture of him standing next to you, he's on the camera, right. He's not someone who seeks a lot of media attention, does a lot of interviews, and so maybe some fans were surprised that you had this reaction to the news of him leaving. Did he personally tell you, like, did you guys talk about it beforehand, or did you not want to do that because

you knew that it would bother you before the fight? No, we didn't, we didn't talk about, like, we didn't talk about and Kami is this person who like who who wants fighters to be focused on their job on good like a mental rest like a good performance so we didn't talk about and but you know it was coming you know and it happened at the press conference but then we went to the room just me and Kami we talked a little bit and it was amazing so I'm really looking forward to work more with him because, you know, what's funny, like I met, because I like Roby so much. Okay, he lost to Tyrone Woodley, who I like so much as well,

but I like Roby's style so much. And I met Roby and Kamy so many times at the UFC venues, and so many times he said, like, one day, you should move to ATT, one day you should move to ATT, but the time I didn't think of moving to the United States. But at the end, look, I ended up working with him. I ended up at ATT, and this is a, amazing, you know, because he felt that like, like good people connect to good people with good

people and this is what happened with us. Maybe I'm, I'm the baddest chick on the planet, chick on the planet, maybe I'm the baddest woman in the octagon, but definitely I'm very emotional, you know, and I believe in people so badly and I love when people trick me the same way, you know. Are you, are you hopeful? It's not just about the money. Yeah, of course. And are you I am. Even though he is no longer with ATT, that you'll still be able to have him in your corner for your upcoming fights? Yeah.

Okay. Yes. Yes. I believe he's such an amazing person and it will happen. Is a part of the reason why you were emotional because you finally felt comfortable at ATT? Like you made a big move. A lot of people don't see this in sports. Like you're a dominant champion and then you leave your country, your team,

and now you finally feel like you have something, right? Yes. Like I said, like my my, my, my, my, my. My fight before the EFC 205, we didn't have enough time and people were like, oh, Joanna changed her team, her coaches, she doesn't do well. But the thing is like, you need time, you know, and this is what happened this fight. We put on such a great camp, great performance, on good fight, and people can see that, you know, that we are doing great, very great, you know. And it was good decision, the best decision in my fighting career. I asked you before the fight, Joanna, if Jessica Andraj is your toughest opponent.

And you said, ask me that question after the fight, which makes sense. So now I ask you after the fight. What was she your toughest? I was thinking about she was tough. She was tough. Definitely she was tough. But I don't know. I put on such a great camp, you know.

Like this is what I said. I was injured a little bit. I had good and bad moments like every person. But I train very hard. And this is what I always say. like, guys, train hard and leave the excuses outside the gym, outside the octagon, just go and do your job and enjoy the process, you know? And I don't know what to say.

I think I had tougher opponents, but definitely Jessica was a big challenge to me in our last fight, but I think I faced better opponents, but maybe it's because of me, the hard work and the new team. Because like I, like I, like we put on such a. great work. So maybe I got just better. You could see me moving better. You could see me moving better. You know, my footwork was better. My strength, my power. My punches were more powerful dynamics. So that's the thing. We put on such a great camp. So maybe that's why Jessica couldn't do like anything, you know. I had heard that you injured your back during this training camp. And I was, I was wondering if you ever seriously considered pulling out of the fight.

Was it ever that bad? There was no option, but, you know, the injury was not a big injury. And you know what happened? I brought my physical therapist for the last three weeks of the camp and for the fight. So he spent it with me four weeks. But the thing is this happened three days before he came to the United States. And I was just waiting for him to come, you know, because I booked his flight

like a month before it happened but the thing is I had like a small back injury it was nothing big but it could get worse but he helped me and that's the thing Michelle from perfectly at his and doctor she took a good care of me then Camille my PT guy

they helped me but there was an option that I was about to pulling out of the fight but the thing is one day I couldn't just get out of my bed, you know? I couldn't walk. I was lying on my bed, crying all day because every move was so painful, but I was like, I'm going for training.

And Paulino was just, what? You are not going. You're staying here. You cannot even move, you know? So I took like two days off and my coaches, they showed me big support that time. And then we started slowly, but, you know, it was very painful for a few days, even a few weeks. but it's good how is it now after the fight

how is it feeling oh it's very good it's very good like I said it was like nothing big but very painful okay and so after the fight

I will fly back home and of course I will put on such a great work with my physical therapists and we're gonna check it one more time to to not let it happen but now I know that

Camille must be with me for the whole camp and it will be pleasure to me to work one more time with him and the other crew, you know. How is your head feeling? My head is very good, few bruises.

You had the big bump. I have sunglasses on. Now I don't have big bump on the forehead. I have just, you know, blue eye a little bit. My nose is swollen because the bruise, the bump from the forehead is going down. It's always like this. I feel like I need four more days and I'm going to be fine. And, you know, early on in your UFC career, you were breaking your hands a lot,

but you're not breaking them anymore. What changed? Are you doing something different? Are you wrapping them? Yes, my weight cut is different, you know? My weight cut is different. And I think it was because of the weight cut. One of the reasons could be the weight cut.

But since I work with the perfect in athletes, it's amazing. I feel great. You can see that my body changed, you know. I'm more muscular. I feel healthy. I feel strong. And that's the thing. So it's amazing.

I feel great. I feel amazing. You didn't want to talk a lot about the future. I understand that before the first. fight but speaking of the weight cut when do you think realistically that you will try to fight for the flyway title what's your plan oh i don't know for sure this year i want to be focused on my strawweight belt so we will see i know that there is the ultimate fighter coming with the 125ers so we will see it's going to take a while probably like from six to 12 months so probably next year

next year i will fight for the second belt have you started to surprise yourself Joanna, like when you were starting out as a fighter, when you dreamed of becoming a fighter, when you dreamed of becoming a UFC fighter and a champion, I'm sure you had a vision of what kind of fighter you would become. But you're at the point now where people are starting to say that you're the best fighter regardless

of gender, that you're the pound for pound best, you're getting praise from your fellow fighters. Are you surprising yourself with just how good? You just skunked someone who some people were picking against you. Some people were saying that Jessica was going to beat you and you beat her five rounds to none. Do you surprise yourself at this point how good of a fighter you've become?

yes and not but you know the work is in the gym so many weeks before the fight and this is the fight you know this is cherry on the top of the of the of the cake the fight is like the cherry you know so the the hard work is before so I make sure every camp I make sure every day I make sure I will be ready for everything for anything and everything you know in the fight no surprises for me you know. What is it like when you see fighters? Of course, anything can happen, but

yeah. Yeah, I like to challenge myself every day and I work very hard. This is what I said at the press conference. I'm not happy. Even the practice, the workout, the training was good. I had good session. I'm not happy and my coaches are like,

be proud of yourself. I am more instant than outside, but I know that I'm afraid of losing. I want to stay a champion. I want to make my dreams and goals come, a life, you know, come through and that's the thing. What's it like when you see fighters say that you're the best?

When you see your other fellow fighters say that you're the best, what's that like for you? I smile and I feel like a shame, how you say? No, like I put myself in shame. How you say this? Like, I get like. A little embarrassed? I'm shy, you know? Yeah.

I'm getting shy. But it's good to hear, you know. I don't know. Like people think that. When you reach the top level, when you became a champion, like it's easier or you can rule the world. But no, you must stay humble, work hard and it's harder than before and stay patient about, you know. And this is who I am, you know. You seem to be a fighter.

And I see that with every fight, I'm getting like more calm before every fight. Before every way is like there are emotions, you know, big adrenaline line. so many questions if I did well what is she going to do this or that but then I'm like no girl be proud of yourself you did good you put on such a great work

you're strong you're fast what can happen you know like nothing you know I'm not afraid of of that you know I know the God is with me all the time so why I must be afraid of my opponents

they can help me I can lose the fight but this is what I'm talking about I'm trying to enjoy my life enjoying my life more than my fighting career, you know, because I know it's just part of my life, but I'm trying to give as much and get as much. Do you feel like you get... In the same time?

You get too nervous, like you don't enjoy the moment before the fight on the Friday, the Saturday. There's so much pressure to remain champion and to... No, no. The thing is like, I was such a calm. I was such a calm. Even in the locker room, we're not going to feel like better energy or stress or pressure. I'm like, I'm going home.

I'm going... I'm going to show to all of them that there's only one strong with champion. And I just don't talk, you know. I prove to people that, you know. Yeah. You know, you... I beat my legacy with every fight, you know. Do you enjoy more when you have kind of like a friction, a beef with your opponent?

Because you and Jessica have a good relationship and it wasn't the same kind of stare-downs and stuff. So are you looking forward to maybe your next fight where you're not as friendly with your opponent? you know I like people think that now I'm trying to build my brand and I became more quiet because I think that being bully is not it's not value anymore but it's

not true it's all up to them how they want to play with me you know but I show I prove that they cannot like F with me you know if they want to fight me I will fight them you know if they want to like get into the mental game I will get into the mental game with them and show to them that

I'm the champion as well, you know, because they cannot, they cannot play with me, you know. So that's the thing. It's all about the fight. If they want, this is what I say. Like if they want to play harder, I let them do this. But they must know that I'm still going to do my job in the octagon, and it's the most important, you know, that I bring help. Yeah, right after your fight, they cut to a shot of rows sitting in the front row. And she did you see this picture of her not smiling at all?

I saw. I saw. What did you think of that? You know, the thing is, the thing is before the last checkout, before I stepped into the octagon, I saw Holy Holm and someone else, and I was smiling to someone. And then I saw Patrick Berry like doing some crazy faces, you know. I don't know if he was smiling or not. So I say, sorry if I'm wrong, but he showed his teeth and like he was like, he, he was like, he, he. I was like, what the fuck is going on?

Who is that guy? You know, I was like, oh, it's Patrick Barry. Then I saw Rose. I saw Holy Hon before because I respect that girl so much. And, but I think I said, what's going on? Why are you doing this before I step into the octagon? You know, I don't care. If you are going to be my next opponent or your girlfriend is going to be my next opponent,

let's make it happen. But I don't care, you know. If you're going to do crazy face or not, or you're going to talk shit or you're going to say now that I will like face you in my next fight, you know. I don't care, you know. I know my value, you know. I know who I am. So that's the thing.

But then I saw this picture, but, you know, like they all talk crazy things. They say crazy things. But till the first punch, you know, you can even me, same with me. I can have the best plan before each fight. But it's till the first punch, till the first kick, till the first, you know, shot or something. That's the thing. It's like what Mike Tyson said. You ever hear that quote from Mike Tyson?

everyone has a plan until they're punched in the face? Yes, yes, I heard that. I heard that and this is true. It's kind of true. You always think you have the best plan, but this is what I said. Every fight is different. There is no easy fights. So that's the thing.

That's the thing. What is your... I'm happy that I can put on... I can put on great fights and fight for five runs. Have cardio for that. Have strength, power. Be powerful from the first to the seconds of the fight till the end. And that's the thing, you know?

I can deal with it. I know how to deal with the championship brands. That's why I'm still the champion. That's actually maybe what impresses me most about you, how you continue to get better as the fight goes on and your opponent fades away. It's an amazing thing to watch. Do you think, by the way, Ewanah,

that you're the best fighter in the world regardless of gender number one pound for pound? No, there are better fighters. You could say it, come on. No, there are better fighters than me. Of course, I am the best in the world, but there are better people than me. All right, fair enough.

And by the way, before I let you go, what kind of plans do you have for the future? Because now you signed with Paradigm. I know you're working with Brad Slater at WME. Are we going to see you branch off into movies and stuff now, too? I don't know. I want to put on such a great world outside the gym and the octagon. Yes, it's a pleasure to me to work with Paradigm, with Bradst smuggler, you know. He, the rock actually is a big fan of me and my violence.

in the octagon and I like it. And the thing is, I've got some offers, some nice offer two days ago, but I must sit and talk to Paulina, to my assistant because there is some news coming, but maybe we're going to put on great work, but I want to fly to Los Angeles,

maybe in a few weeks and talk to a few agents. Of course, I want to work a little bit on my English, my accent, because like I said, I'm 100% in. I want to work hard outside the octagon, but the atmosphere in Dallas was crazy, and I want to say thank you to all of the media people,

to the UFC crew, because they are doing amazing job, every single person from the backstage, through the PR people and the other, all of them. But the thing is like the media got changed, you know, the level of the interviews are higher, smart questions, and this is what I like about, but the fans in Dallas,

I saw so many people with the kids, flags with the banners, so many Polish people, but also people from all of the world, they came like to support me and support other fighters. And it's amazing, you know, the show was packed and it was amazing, you know. So I'm very, I'm very happy. What kind of news, by the way, are you, are you hinting at? Can you give us? Oh, no, that this is what, that there is some option that I might be part of some TV, some small TV series or some movie, but I don't know the details, but let's see. I don't know if it's going to be on or not, but definitely it's a challenge to me,

and I would like to try something different. When did you go back home? When did you go to Poland? I will fly. I'm in Miami. I'm enjoying my time with my fiancé, my sister, her husband, my cousin, my husband, my cousin. My sponsors are here, the OSHA team. So it's amazing.

Today I probably will meet with perfecting athletes. I want to see my coaches before I leave. But on Friday, I fly to Vegas for the EFC summit. I'm very excited to see the other fighters, the other athletes. I want to talk with Dana a little bit with Sean Shelby. And then after that, I will fly home. I want to see my parents, my little nephew, my sister, my best friends, and that's the thing. Well, I hope when you go home, whenever that time comes,

that they give you the heroes welcome that you deserve in Poland. I hope that they start covering you more and treating you with the... I mean, you're the best Polish athlete living and breathing in the world today. So I hope they put on a parade for you for what you're doing in the UFC. Is that in the works? Can we get that happen? Can we make that happen? Oh, yeah, that's cool.

That could be great. That could be great. All right. Well, Yohanna, again, thank you so much for coming on. And thank you for addressing the stuff. I'm happy that we had the chance to talk about and explain a little bit, but nothing personally. You know, I just got so emotional because, you know, it's all about the right relationship with people. and to all of you, like, remember one day you can be a champion,

you can be the richest person in the world, you can be the boss or the director or some big company, but remember, next day, you can be like, you can be at the beginning again, you know, so respect people and it's all about the right relationship, you know. Amazing, well said, Joanna. Well said, enjoy the victory. Thank you.

Thank you again for the time and we'll talk to you soon. Thank you so much. All the best. Congratulations. Thank you. Bye. Take care. all right there she is the reigning defending ufc strawway champion yawani and jaycheck what what can you say about her she is unbelievable i mean you talk about a role model you talk about someone that young women should look up to you just heard from her she is unbelievable and and to all you people out there who tried to make

me feel like i'm a horrible human being for asking a fighter about their coach who i know means a lot to her, who I know, ask Mike Brown what Kami Barzini means to ATT and to his coaching career. Ask King Moe what Kami Barzini means. Ask Ravi Loller what Kami Barzini means. Ask Dustin Porre what he means. Ask Yuanian Jacek. And so I felt like, you know, this is someone that should be celebrated. This is someone that, you know, should be talked about. Not someone who does a lot of interviews, not someone who, you know, is looking for the spotlight. Is is looking for praise, that's not the case. But it says a lot when you have someone like Yawanna

considering how great she is, considering what she did prior to joining ATT right before UFC 205, she's only worked with him and ATT for two camps. You see the reaction. That speaks volumes. That's something that should be celebrated. And it's great to hear that

he's going to stick around, it sounds like, and still potentially coached. sure. All right. So that was great stuff from Yana and I really appreciate her coming on and I really appreciate her assistant from perfecting athletes, Paulina, for helping to set that up immediately after her leaving the press conference. That made me feel a lot better because, you know, I do feel bad. I didn't want that. I didn't want her to walk out. I didn't want her to be in tears. She should be happy. She just won in an amazing performance, five rounds to none. One judge had it, I think the, was it the fourth?

I don't remember which round, but one judge gave her a 10-8, so I actually had it 50 to 44, which is, you know, I mean, there were people I was sitting with media members backstage before the fight picking Jessica Andrudge. For the record, I did not. And for the record, we actually do picks before the fights. A few of us in the media room. I never actually stepped foot in the arena.

I usually sit in the back with some of the, the other journalists who sit back there, we make picks. And for the second straight pay-per-view, 210, 2-11, this guy right here, the one with the big nose, he won. So how about that? So to all you people, I accept your apology, I know it's not coming, calling me all kinds of names. I love you too, and I appreciate you watching the show as I'm assuming you are watching right now. All right, let us move along now and talk to our next guest. I'm very excited about this because we are talking to one of the up-and-coming stars in the UFC's heavyweight division. And the reason why I wanted to have Francis and Ganu on the show today

is because following Steve Miotich's win on Saturday night, he kind of showed up on Twitter and was rather vocal about the performance and a potential meeting with Sipi. So I thought this would be a lot of fun. And he is kind enough to join us right now. There he is. Via the Magical Skype, the Frenchman, one of the rising stars in the heavyweight division, the one and only.

Francis Nganu. Francis, it's all? It's all. It's very well. Thank you so much for joining us, Francis.

You know, this is an interesting time for you because you just moved to Las Vegas. You left France, but before we get to all of that, I want to know because you were on Twitter

right after the fight and it seemed like you weren't so impressed with the victory. Is that fair to say? Like, I want to do what? That you weren't very impressed with Stipe,

that you think you can fight him right now and you think that you can beat Stepe Miotich. That's what I gathered from reading your tweets after the fight on Saturday night. Is that true? Yes, that's true. You get it. That is some of my reason that I moved in Vegas because right now I'm ready for all challenge.

Yeah. And then I'm number five, rank it number five right now. And then I probably fight everyone right now. You know, I already call out Velazquez. Yeah. He says it's injuring. But I would like to fight him and then just get a tight shot. You think, though, that right now you are ready for Steepameyotich.

Is that true? Yes. If they give me the opportunity, I would take it. Oh, very take it, take that. What kind of feedback? did you get from fans when you were talking on Twitter on Saturday? Because it seemed like some were saying, oh, you're crazy, you can't beat Steepa.

Were you seeing that as well? You're not going to think about too much about what people, someone say. There are someone who would just be a negative, someone who would just say a shit, you know. And then you always have that kind of people, but you always have to choice what you want to hear. and then continue your growing. Because since the beginning,

even before my first fight in UFC, someone said, yes, he's not, he's not ready, just at MMA two years ago. They're going to beat him up. It's too early, something like that. And then what are we going to do?

They always have that kind of people. And then when you say that for someone, and then for someone who will support Steppe, of sure, he's just like, yes, you can't, you are ready. You still need to improve yourself.

You still need to learn more. Stipe is too tough than you. But until the fight come on, no one will not be sure. I would like to get the fight. What did you think of his performance, knocking out Junior Dos Santos in the first round? Were you impressed with Stipe?

He had him. That was a good performance, but I'm not impressed. I think I need more than that. I love it. Have you ever been impressed? Go ahead, please. Excuse me? Are you, like, okay, maybe you weren't all that impressed on Saturday,

but in general, the Stipe, like, do you think that he is the best heavyweight right now in the division? Are you generally impressed with him or not so much? Do you think he's overrated? No, I'm not impressed of him. I see, on my think, I see things like, I don't know. I would even think like someone

be, I'm impressed with someone than steep like Velasquez. I think Velasquez is the best heavy weight that we have in the best heavy weight. Yeah. And that's why I want to fight him too.

But it doesn't sound like it's going to happen with Velasquez, right? Because he's still injured. Is that what you were told? Yes, but he will come back someday. Okay. All right. I'm here, man. I'm not going to know. You tweeted on Saturday that there might be some good news for you regarding an event in Anaheim in July. Is that when you are expecting to come back?

No, I'm not sure, but, no, I'm not expecting to come back for that event, but I would just like Descartes. You know, John's, so it's a very, very amazing fight. It will be a very visual. So you don't have your next fight book just yet? Not yet. Not yet. Perfect world. What do you want?

Would you want Stipe right away or Velasquez before Stipe? In a perfect world for you? Perfect scenario. You know, the perfect scenario is the way is the bird. Yes, yes. And Stip is the one who has the birth. Yes. My goal is the best.

And then I would take everyone who have the birth. So, Stipe. Who are you training with now? Which team is yours? now that you moved to Las Vegas? I moved here two week and a half ago. I'm not, I'm not starting.

Okay. Are you still, you're going to look around? Yeah. Yes, I'm looking around. And then I'll maybe start boxing this week. Okay. Before see what I get a choice, finally. Why did you decide to leave France?

There are a lot of reason of that. You know, we're thinking. about that since a long time ago. Me and my coach, Fernando Lopez, and then even some of my friends, you know, in French we know a great fighter, a lot of

tough heavyweight, heavyweight division in France. It's very, very difficult to have some sparring and someone. And then move here was the best thing that every fight, every fighter,

every heavy way will do. You know, yeah, you have a lot of opportunity to train with everyone with the best heavy way and then to even improve your English, to be ready for anything, to be ready for every opportunity. Yes. And so are you still going to work with your old coaches like Feldman? Or are you no longer, are they not going to be in your corner anymore? he will still be on my corner

was it emotional for you to leave France after you know you've enjoyed success there you came you were homeless you talked about that the last time you're on the show and now to go to America was that was that a tough thing for you to do no you know since when I moved to France I just have one goal and when I leave Cameroon I have one goal and today I still continue to follow my goal I continue to follow my dream that is what

That is not something hard to me because I already do the highest one. You know, when I leave Cameroon, that is the thing that is very hard. And then I just leave as all these last four years, I stay in France as someone who will go someday. So I would just be ready on my mind before. And why did you choose Vegas before having a team picked out? In other words, why did you choose Vegas over California where there are a bunch of teams in San Jose, Los Angeles, Florida? Why Vegas before having a team? Why Vegas?

Vegas is a nice city, you see? Yeah. In my apartment, I have a view for the Red Rock Canyon. It's very awesome. We have a good weather here. Yeah. We have a good food. We have a great team.

And then we don't have a lot of traffic. Last time I was in California and then I just like, whoa, my God, I don't think I can stay here. Yeah. I even visit St. Jose and Los Angeles. But, you know, I don't like it like Vegas. And then in Vegas, we have a lot of, a lot of staff, UFC staff who can help us. You know, when you are just a newcomer somewhere, you need to be help for something. and then they are just

around to help you and it was not the same if you are living far and the biggest choice that the biggest thing that will make our choice is the you know the UFC performance and you know that is something

that I will want to to have it yes and then when we just know that we say we think about everything and Vegas is so far the best. Yep. Are you there alone?

Like, are you a little lonely? Do you have friends with you? No, I'm alone. Wow. But maybe sometimes some friend will come visit me. Okay. Yes. You know, on...

Maybe sometimes if coaches for now or Tonton Pumbu come here to help me sometime for my training camp. So we will stay together. On Thursday of last week, We spoke to Derek Lewis about you. And he said, oh, of course everyone wants to see us fight each other. Derek Lewis versus Francis and Ghanou, because America loves to see two black people fight each other. That's the reason why.

That's why everyone wants. What do you think of that? Do you think that's the reason why people want to see you guys fight each other? I see the reason that people want to see our fight is because we are a very, very powerful guy. you know, we am I don't know how to explain that but I know

powerful, yes, we are powerful and then people want to see the opposition of these two guys, these two, these two beats yes,

yeah, the placato and the black beats. Yes. And that is something that would happen, would happen, I'm sure for that,

yes. But I don't know when, but it will happen. and it will be some great fight and even some of, you could make some great UFC card. Do you think it's better to wait until one of you is champion to make this fight, so it's an even bigger fight? You know, what I want is different than what, you know,

it would be different than what UFC won. And then if USA say, you're going to fight this, I'll do it. But my goal, my first goal was just the bird. And then when you want to take the bird, when you want the bird, you know, you, you are like, I don't know, you call anyone back of you because anyone won the bird. And then if you have to bet, anyone who want to fight you, you would not choice a fighter or choice a fight. Yes. And then, but I would like to stay. to stay there before take that.

He also said that, like, you haven't beaten anyone, you know, any of the top fighters, like, he's defeated already because he said that And Jarlovsky is old, and other than that, you don't have any big names on your record. So he wasn't exactly, you know, glowing and very excited about what you've done so far. Do you think maybe this was his response to you

saying that you weren't impressed with him? Remember a couple months ago in the gym? When you will find me, that is why you will know why. I will see that if you two, he's all, you know. Yes, when you would take my punch and take me over here, I make sure, man, you will agree what I'm saying. Okay, all right, fair enough.

For you, when, you know, considering you're doing, you've moved, and there's some, you know, changes in your life, what month would you like to fight? You know, because you haven't fought since January. Would you like to fight this summer? Do you need some more time? September, October. When are you thinking is good for you to return?

What I think, I would like to fight in July. Okay, okay. July or August? Okay. Yes. So soon. So you think you'll have a team, you'll find a gym and be ready and comfortable to go into a training camp? You know, we have a lot of gym in Vegas.

And then I think about how to start training, we have a boss. in gym we have a I think about how to start training maybe to syndicate MMA and then okay everything will be okay all right now that is not a matter you know right now it's not a matter okay um just i just i just have one they just give me one date and then and need just need two more to be ready for it okay um and by the way before i let you go i was just curious because you started off as a boxer did you watch the anthony jjjjjohn Joshua, Vladimir Klitsko fight? And if so, what do you think of Anthony Joshua?

A lot of people think that he is, you know, the next great heavyweight boxer. When you watch him, what do you think? Of sure. He beat the greatest one. You know, Klitschko is not, it's the famous one for the heavyweight division. And then Anthony Joshua beat him. And then he improved himself, you know, he have a difficult fact. the fight was not easy for him

yeah for the some run he even he even take the take down the how do you call it the knockdown

no he take down knock down yeah yes even the knock down and then he continued fight he will be

you know fish four have 41 but he's still strong you know yes he improved that he's still ready he could be champ again.

He could come back. Yeah. He could even beat Joshua. Yes. So it's not like, he's not easy for Joshua and then he do it. So. When you watch Joshua, do you say,

if I would have stuck with boxing, I could have been this guy. I don't think about. I don't think about him. You know, what you want to think about someone you think about some Joshua is a new

fighter, new births are they just start to know who is Joshua about in the birth in the but before when I was bursting I just look about like my cousin because he was

very famous for a long time and then I would say okay I would like to boss like this I would like to have to be technical like this, you know, but it's not like Joshua. You're doing great things, Francis, and your English continues to get really, really impressive. You're improving greatly with your English. So great job. Kudos to you.

Congrats on the move to Las Vegas. And keep doing your thing, my man. I'm very excited about you. Thank you. Me too. I'm very excited. We're going to do a big thing now. Okay.

Very great. I love it. Thank you, Francis. We'll talk to you soon. All the best. Thank you, Ariel. Have a good year. Okay.

Bonapremidie to Francis Engano. Cameroon's own, moved to France, now living in Las Vegas. My chair is stuck here. Not impressed with Mr. Stipe Miochich. How about that? Went on Twitter right away and said, oh, hell no. Not exactly in those words, but he was quick to throw that. shade and I respect it.

And I have a feeling that around this time next year, he will have already fought in a UFC heavyweight title fight. We don't know what will happen, but I think that is, I think it's fair to say, not going out on a limb here, I think it's fair to say that that is a man to remember, that is a name to remember,

that's a man to keep on your radar. Okay, let's move along. Really wanted to talk to our next guest. Why? Well, on Saturday night, we found out that according to Dana White, Damien Maya, who is now won seven in a row, he defeated Jorge Mazzvedal via split decision is next for Taryn Woodley. Well, let's see what Taryn Woodley has to say about all that and more.

He joins us now via The Magic of Skype. There he is, Tewood himself. Tyron, how are you? I'm doing, how are you doing, brother? You're working out, you're sweating over there. I see your forehead's all sweaty. You're at the gym? First, look, let me say it.

I brought a training party with me. What do you got? You don't see it? No, I don't. I think it, I see your backpack. A nice little backpack Oh, okay. Yeah, that's a training partner.

Oh, I get it. Ah! That's a good one. It took me a second to catch on. That is a good one. A nice little nod. Come on, Ariel. Sorry.

Sorry, my bad. The human backpack himself, Damien Ma. Okay, so let's not waste any time. What did you think of his performance? Were you impressed? You know, I was impressed that he was able to take Jorge down. I didn't think he would be able to take him down and get to him at ease.

I thought, you know, the hands speed of Jorge Mazvedal, his angles, and just his IQ, he's been in the game for a very long time. It's not like it's a surprise on what Damien Mayer would be going for. We all knew he wasn't going to try to stand up and strike with Masvidal. I was surprised that he was able to get to that so often, and, you know, he was on his back the entire fight. That doesn't surprise, but the fact that he was able to get to the legs, get to the limbs, and, you know, it wasn't really sneaky. It wasn't really fast. It wasn't really explosive. of, but it happened, and it just really surprised me.

Were you surprised that he was unable to finish Mazvedal, like in the first round when he had his back? In the past, he's usually been able to lock in the submission and end the fight rather quickly, but Masvidal got out. Did that surprise you? No, you know, I don't want to tell a guy how to finish his move. Obviously, he's finished a lot of people who would have redneck and choke. He must know what he's doing, so I'm not here to teach him on how to do it. I was surprised that he wasn't a tabby.

more aggressive, I figure, you know, you have his back, he took him down. It wasn't an easy thing to do. While you're back to him, you've got to pull two minutes. Man, go ham to try to get underneath his neck and finish his deal off because if you don't, there's a chance, you know, he might get out, he might break, or get to the next round. You have to start back on your feet, which Jorge would obviously have the advantage. So I was surprised he wasn't a tabby more aggressive with trying to go for the finish. But, I mean, I'm assuming that, you know, Jorge had a few guys on his back.

He's trying to choke him out. He probably, you know, learn how to get hand control. So when he won the fight and got down on his knees in front of Dana White and said, you know, give me that title shot and you can hear Dana say, you got it, you got it. First thing that came to mind was, well, I wonder what Tyrone Woodley thinks about all of this. And so that's really why you're here. I said to talk to me first, right? Well, so what is your reaction to that?

I haven't talked to anyone. So, I mean, you got to talk to the champion first, you know. You can issue or whatever shot you want to issue you out, but you have to talk to me. I think, you know, I'm not against fighting, Damien Maya. You know, I think out of all the guys in the top 10 that are really threatening guys that are, you know, be frightening in the oxygen, whether it's submission, knockout, or just their ability to be tough. I match up the best with him. I fought that style so many different times.

I'm trained against that style. My last five fights have been against Southball, Dungan Kim, Kevin Gassel, Robbie Lawler, Stephen Thompson. So as far as the stance and the style, I've seen it so many times, and I have such great resources. guys like shoot phase, guys like Ben Aspen, you know, I might even pick up the phone and grab Jake Shields because he, a lot of people fail to realize that Jake Shields went to Brazil and dominated Damien Maia. Like, people failed to realize that. And the only thing that I think me and Maya have in common, we fight completely differently. You know, we had different points of our career. I think he's just want the shot to finally get the shot. I'm trying to be the greatest

server. And the only thing we haven't come is that we lost to the same two guys in Woltwood. Outside of that, you know, there's nothing, nothing the same for us. Does this fight interest you? Does this fight, you know, peak your interest? No, it didn't. It doesn't. It didn't interest me. It didn't make my adrenaline pop. It didn't, like, you know, to be honest, neither one of those guys did, because they're, they're trying to build their brand up, and I'm trying to build my brand up, and I feel like my brand is a little bit further than theirs is, so it didn't really interest me, you know, you got to realize, man, I've been in two very annoying training camps.

Stephen Thompson is not a fun training camp. It's not fun having a fun. and stage, you know, I'm going to kick you through a cage, or having all these different guys who are pretending and throwing random kicks that you've never seen before and dealing with it and not being able to explode like you want to the time and being very, you know, wise because you make a millimeter mistake, you get knocked out. So for me to go into another camp,

the two best specialists in our sport just so happen to be in my weight class. There's no other weight class that has these guys that are specialists that are still around. It's not like the hoaxy days. but Stephen Thompson and Damien Maia has farmed to adapt their striking style and rapists out to MMA style and is very frustrating so I was excited you know forehead Mazudadal kind of he kind of pung me up a little bit with some of his shenanigans from the interview had him in a training camp you know I had um you know Shane Mosley Jr his son was going to spar with me I had the whole set up

the wildfire boxing I really know I was already planning the camp based on possibly fight Mazvidow or you're at St. Pierre or a striker. So now, you know, I haven't talked to Danny yet. They haven't formed for them to offer me to fight yet. I'll get with those guys to see what. But to be honest, I respect the hell out of the dude. You know me. I've never taken any one.

But, like, think about the car, how ridiculous was that car? And if you can pick up one fight, one fight on the whole car, which one are you going to point out that maybe not been the Tremblin pact or the action-pack fight? It's going to be that one. You're going to put me in that fight again so I can have to hear all this crap from the fans again, you know. So I'm going to get it done if that's the next fight up. But, you know, don't blame me.

What is your perfect scenario? Like, what is the fight that does get your blood boiling? I mean, Georgia St. Pierre is always going to be that. No matter the money, no matter the city, if it's in freaking Montreal, if it's freaking for $100,000, no matter what the situation is, that's always going to be the best fight. He was the best in the world. if he's still talking about competing, that's always going to hang over my head. I can't honestly say I'm the best World's way in the world

knowing that he still won the fight. So that's going to take precedence of everything. An exciting fight, something that I can produce my first rivalry, maybe, my first back and forth press conference is maybe at Nick Diaz. In my opinion, he's the lineal top five wealth away, what he's done for the sport,

how he actually got people excited about it. He was really just himself, and that became an image. And I think he can do that every day, because that's him. You know, so I respect him. I respect what he's done for MMA. That's another fight that excites me.

I just don't see beating Damia and Maya really putting another notch on my belt like those two guys would. Now, granted, he's got, what, 17, 18, 19 wins in the UFC, something ridiculous. You know, Anderson's civil to a decision, rattle off seven victories in a row. Man, how do you do that type of stuff in silence? Yeah. Think about it. It's our sport. You know what I mean?

Our sport is not a lot. about jujitsu, you know, the building block of the UFC is not allowed it to be great. It's not respected. It's not something that everyone wants to see. That's how he's been able to rattle off seven victories against top opponents and not get the credit. It's not my fault. I didn't do that. Right. You know, just curious, when Dana White said last week, I'm not going to wait for GSP anymore. I'm canceling the Bisping fight. Did a light go off in your head? Did you say like, okay, because we all kind of thought that that was the fight that made more sense for GSP just because he was the champ who left and never was, was, was, was,

was defeated and now he comes back to get the title against you. Did you think, okay, this is my chance? Maybe you will all work out and I actually get to fight this guy soon rather than later? Well, you know, I think, you know, logistically, you know, people start making plans to start booking fights. But I think spiritually what's meant to happen is meant to happen. What God has for me is for me. Nobody can take it away.

I'm the best walk away in the world. And I feel like George St. Pierre should have fought me. He should have came back. Fighting bisming, I think that was the cowardly move. He's going to fight someone that doesn't have the ability to concuss him like I would or Johnny Hedress would or Robbie Lollywood. That's why he waited. If Stephen Thompson would have beat me, I guarantee his first fight back would have been against Stephen Thompson. A similar karate-style fighter that he's probably seen a million times.

He's trained with him. He doesn't have one-punched K-O power. He's not going to submit him. He's not going to stop his shot. It's a safer fight for a big payday. So with that said, you know, I just kind of raised my eyebrows that the fact that he would go up with a classman. It's a willing, dominant, you know, champion that wants to take you on that's, you know, excited about the fight. Surprise me, but, hey, if it's Damien Maia at first or if it's George St. Pierre at first, everybody's going to get it at the end of the day, and I'm just excited to be where I'm at right now.

You tweeted a couple weeks ago, like, I'm preparing for my camp. I'm preparing for my fight. You know, the camp is underway. And every day, I'm like, I'm getting questions. Who's Woodley fighting? Who's Woodley fighting? Who's he preparing for? What were you preparing?

The guys I thought I was fighting for were all strikers. Okay. None was Damien Myers. Whether it was Bisping, whether it was Conner McGregor, whether it was George St. Pierre, or Haymazvedal, or Nick Diaz, all five of those guys, it makes sense for me to do what I was doing, the strike and the hand speed, the footwork, the plight mixers, the conditioning, the explosiveness. Those are all the things that I'm working. Now I can use those things as well, but I'm going to have to grab the Ben Ashken. I'm going to have to pick up the phone and call Jake Shields.

I'm going to have to get Shoeface in, and I'm going to have to train a different way while I'm exploding, defending, exploding, defending, and. And, you know, you start seeing him Damien Maya when he doesn't get that shot, when he starts to get punched. Those shots start coming really wide open. They started coming with no setup. It's almost like he diving in their legs. And if you remember my fight against Andre and Govow, I'm not that guy you want to do that too. I would knock you out. It appears as though there may be an opening in July because Cody Garbrand's back is a little messed up.

They don't have a main event right now for that show. And my hypothesis was, all right, if Maya or Mazv v. Dahl wins and doesn't get injured that they might call upon you to made event that show in two months. Has that happened yet? You know, it's funny. Remember what I told you? I told you. I said, hey, I'm always right. I told you that I'm always right. They told me no international fight. They said they already had a title fight. I said, well, weren't you planning on doing two last year with, you know, Mennon-Nunes versus Misha and then John versus D.C.? Why can't you do it again?

Then they went ahead and book two title fights. You know, Amanda Nunes back at it again. And then Cody Garbrandt, and I don't wish injury upon anybody, but when my gut tells me to start turning, and when it tells me the fight might be appearing, I start to get ready. Now, what I don't agree with, if you're so hungry, you want the title so bad, when the challenge comes up, you take the fight. You don't say, hey, I got to go on, do a seminar.

I got to go to international and the fight week. Are you kidding me? You're a challenge, brother. If they offer you to fight next week, you better straddle up. some damn gloves, you know, that's what you have to do. So he kind of turned me off a little bit when Damien M. was in his press conference and he was rattling off this ridiculous list. Like, I'm like, dude, really?

You want to hear my list? You want to know what I do on a weekly basis on a daily basis? And guess what? Training is always included. A fight on the horizon is always included. And when that opportunity comes, everything else goes to the wayside. Like, I got offered to fight, who was it, Robbie Lawler. Remember when John Jones and D.C. was supposed to fight?

Yep. And that fight fell through for whatever reason. But 12 days notice, I accepted the fight against Robbie Lala. That's what someone that wants to be a world title does. He's not the youngest spring chicken out there. He's 39 years old. You're already going to be at a disadvantage in youth and speed. You take the fight.

Forget the seminar. If you beat me, you're the world champion. You're the best. And that's where you're going to make the most money in it. So did they ask you about July 8th? Yeah. by July 8th last week that said, you know, basically exactly what you said. If, you know, these guys come out, nobody's heard, they were interested in me fighting the

winter there. I didn't decline that. I didn't climb the 29th, and it's a fight in August. I don't know if they even have a location for that. I don't think I'll fight any later than August, but I'll be ready to fight as early as July 8th. And that's why I wanted to fire that anyway. So you think that happens? You think that happens? I don't know I mean I'm gonna be in Vegas for the Athletes for Tree Deal

coming up so I'll set up meetings with Dana and the guys and not see what their plans are but you know I'm not going to be easy to deal with man Damia Maya is not a guy that's going to push the needle you know I don't even know the paper review numbers work for Stephen Thompson but I can't

I can't go out here and try to start something or you know pump up you fans for a fight that one you already seen the first one so it's like a self-self fight. And then secondly, this guy's going to be like the most nice, gentlest human being on earth. I respect him. And I, you know me, I'm not going to do something that's not me. I'm not going to, like, go and start something that's not there. But at the end of the day, this is a, this is a prize fighting, um, cross fighting situation. So I think, you know, champions in a past have been

compensated for opponents that, you know, may not push a needle, that you may not get the points you think you're going to get. And a little extra fats will start on the time. top for them. So me knowing that, I'm going there and look for that myself. So that's what you mean when you say you're not going to be the easiest to deal with if this is the fight that's presented to you? Well, I'm just saying, man, you know,

you want me to fight this guy? Tell me where he's marked with what. Yeah. Brazil. Yeah. Please, if you offer, if you offer me to fight against Damien, I and Brazil, do not come with me with less than seven figures to show. I'm not going over to a different country, different time zone, out,

whatever, to fight him in his own element. I'm the champion unless there's a whole bunch of comments right. You know, outside of that, international fight, it's a good week. The fight with John Jones, D.C. is a good week. If I fight in August, I don't know exactly who they're going to put on that card, but if it's a stay-long where it's me and me and Damien, you've got to realize it's not all about money, it's not all about business, but Connor McGregor was never made to stand along.

Remember, he pumped a fight pass first. I mean, George St. Pierre never came out the gate cracking 900,000 buys. No one does that. It takes time for you fans to get to know us. It takes time for you guys to get to recognize what our struggle was and why is it so important that we became champion. Once you learn our story, once you learn who we are, you see the diversity we face, you see how hard we train

or how hard we fight or how our mindset is. Then the fans get behind you and they want to watch you. Then when you've got two guys in a compelling matchups that are telling you, hey, I'm going to beat him because it is. No, you're not because of that. It makes you guys want to pick up the remote control and press by on the pay-review. And that's at the end

That's at the end of the day. We're not doing this free. So I'm interested in everybody. I'm willing to fight anybody. But you're not going to pay me less when I work. I think they recognize that. And I've done so many favors. All the favors are ran out.

Now, hey, I owe Dana a favor. He know what I'm talking about, Dana. Oh. I owe him a favor. So what do you mean? He got to get out of jail free card. So if he put in a special request of me, it's going to be very tough for me to tell him.

No. Why do you owe him one? Or does he owe you one? It's just a person I... Huh? He owes you one or you owe him? He's just a person I... You said what? He owes you a favor or you owe him a favor? No, I owe him a favor. Really? I wanted to meet... I wanted to meet somebody. It's not a big deal. It's not a huge deal, but

you know, sometimes people do things that they don't have to do. It's outside of scope of their job. And I think it's kind of dope. So I wanted to meet someone, and he's going to make it possible for me to meet that person. So I don't have a short time memory. I don't have a short time. I'm sorry, so the drama queens are friends again. You know, well, let's see how the week goes. Right now we money. You know, it's funny right now we cash money. Okay. By the end of the week, you know, this interview comes out. I did one earlier today. People start asking me, and if I don't submit myself and saying I'm fighting, Damien Maya for 100% sure, you know, we can be, we can be back on the other side of the defense again.

No. All right. By the way, I see you filming stuff. You had like white hair at one point. What do you got going on? Man, I did a movie in Tampa called the favorite. So I was an old man coach there. Okay.

I did a movie called The Night Shift. I did a movie, a TV show called The Night Shift. That's going to be on NBC. And then I did a movie called a Skitland, too, with Salone, Batista 50s. I have a pretty large role in there. I saw the trailer for the first time yesterday. It was unreal. So I'm excited about that.

And to be honest, like I told you before, when I feel like it's time to fight, it's time to fight. So I had to counsel a couple of movies. Actually, one role I was going to do in a movie in New Orleans, I might have to pass. And I'm actually putting Jay Harron in for hopefully he gets this job. So, yeah, I'm a freeze on the movie and TV shows for a bit. So I figured out what my next fight is. All right. I would love the idea of you, of all people, being the one who saves the day for July 8th,

I think it would be a nice little story. The irony would be rich there. I said it. I've been saying it over and over again. And you know, it's funny. Like to Damien Maya, you know, I think it's a language barrier and a disconnect on what I was actually saying. I stand by what I said. When I said, I felt he was stupid for taking a finding against Mazveda.

That's a casual, informal way of communication. Like, oh, man, you're stupid for doing that. I'm not saying you're ignorant. You're dumb. You're stupid. What I'm saying is that you were the number one contender. Me and wonderful way, in my opinion, it was never a drug the first time. should have never been a rematch.

You should have been in the next fight. And then had he beat Robbie, had he beat somebody else, and Wondervoy get another shot, why would they announce that the weak, me and Wondonnerboard were fighting, me, I'm going to watch the fight. Somebody might get knocked out real quick and they're ready to turn right back over. This was a very, very risky fight. It was a very, very tough opponent.

Style-wise, it did not look very great on paper, but he got the job done, he won, he proved me wrong, you prove everybody else wrong, but I do stand by my, you know, statement that the risk has a match reward. If you want to risk you, brother, risk it against me. Risk it for a couple hundred thousand more. Risk it for the gold. Don't risk it in a fight that you technically did not have to fight.

Yeah. No, I hear you 100%. Thanks for stopping by, Tyron. Thank you for squeezing us in. Safe travels to Vegas. And good luck with whatever negotiations, discussions that you have with the UFC brass later on this week. I think I'll be okay.

All right. All right. I got your back. all right thank you tyran appreciate it very much there he is tyran woodley the ufc welterweight champion stopping by great stuff from him as always okay one man who knows a thing or two about tyron woodley he actually referred to him in that interview his name is rory macdonald and on friday he finally makes his bell tore debut remember he signed with bell toadour last summer but it's going down this friday in london against paul daly wembley arena this is a lot of fun he joins us now

via the phone i do believe from london rory are you there I'm here. Thanks for having me. It is a pleasure, Roy. Great to talk to you as always. So you're in London right now, right? That's right. What's it like? Are you feeling the love? Are people throwing tomatoes at you as you walk on the street? What's going on? No, I'm going, you know, pretty under the radar, just making my rounds through the media. It's been good. You know, today's typical London weather. And yesterday it was nice. So far, everything's going smoothly. Do you feel a buzz for this? I mean, this is a really big deal.

In my opinion, maybe the greatest main event that Bell Tour has ever put on, does it feel like there's a buzz or is it a little too soon? No, absolutely there's a buzz. You know, that's what everybody keeps saying. You know, there's some big hype behind this, and it's just getting more exciting as the week progresses. What do you think, Rory, when you see, you know, we just had Tyron on, it looks like he may fight Damien.

You beat both those guys. the champion and the number one contender. What does that say to you? Well, it proves my point that I feel that I'm the best in the world. I just got to go out there and get it done, you know, and that starts on this Friday. Yeah, but it's an amazing thing that the guy who beat both of them is fighting in a different organization and not even fighting for their belt. You were higher ranked than Lorenz Larkin, yet he's getting a title shot before you.

How did that happen? I think it was timing, to be honest. You know, I kept trying to get the fight with Lima, but they were saying he's got an injury, he's going to have surgery. It's not going to come around the time you want. But so they offered me the daily fight. But it's funny because they booked his fight in the exact time frame that I wanted to actually fight. So it's a bit weird. I don't know what happened there.

Lima was trying to get a different fight or if, you know, if Delator wanted to get me, you know, up against Daly because he called me out. You know, I don't know why it worked out the way it did, but, you know, in the end, I'm happy with it. This is it going to be a big show. This is a great opponent for me, and I'm going to go put on the best performance in my life.

So when you heard that Lima was going to fight Larkin, were you bummed? was in MSG of all places? How did you react to that news? Well, I had already had my fight with Daley, so I wasn't too concerned, and I knew that fight was going to secure me a spot for the title. Okay.

You know what I mean? Yeah. So I wasn't stressing too much. I was a bit, like, rolling my eyes, like, really, like, I got passed up for, you know, Larkin got that over me. Like, it just, it was kind of an eye-roll moment, but, I mean, in the end, whatever. It's all good.

They're fighting for my belt because I'm going to go take it from them after that. You had a chance to square off with Paul a few days after we spoke when this fight was announced, and he was talking about, like, you know, looking at you and he thinks that you're, you know, a serial killer or a psycho. What was that like when you guys squared off? What did you see in him? Oh, I've seen exactly what kind of fighter he is. You know, he's an intense individual, so I can expect an intense.

fight from him. You know, he's one of those guys that is always in the fight and is always going to be in there trying to knock your head off. So I'm prepared for that. Did he say anything to you when you guys were next to each other? No. No, no, it was pretty hush-hush. No talking at all. Paul likes to talk usually. I'm surprised. Yeah, he's been pretty quiet this time around

and somewhat respectful, you know. So I don't know what's going on with them. Maybe he doesn't want to eat his words after this fight, I don't know. Right. You know, a lot has been made of where you're training for this fight, so can we clear it up? Are you still a part of TriStar? Yeah, absolutely.

For all that's in my corner, we're actually going to go train in the room right after this call. So everything's all good there. Oh, he's already in London? Yeah, yeah, he's here with me. But I think people just, you know, when you say something in an interview, they really like to make it their own story rather than, you know, they like to spin it off almost, you know. So to clear the air, you know, I went back to, I originally started training martial arts and began my career for a big portion of my training camps this time. And, yeah, I guess they spun it the way they wanted to.

and make it look like I had bad blood with TriStar, but I was still, I spent a good three weeks of TriStar for this training camp as well. Is this what you'll be doing from here on out, the majority of the camp in British Columbia, but still, you know, half-for-haz in your corner and maybe a portion of the camp in Montreal? Yeah, I'm pretty sure. I go with the flow, but, you know, this training camp went excellent.

I was very happy with it. I feel that I'm going to go out there and really show my, myself to the fans and you know just be myself out there and have a fun time in the cage and you know I think that's what it's all about and I think everybody will appreciate that and so does that mean you're moving back to

British Columbia will you not live in Montreal anymore? No Montreal is still home okay I'll be yeah I'll be going back and forth like usual well I think you made the right choice on that one as far as your living conditions are concerned yeah I mean I mean I'm I'm always going to be a little bit biased.

Yes. I love BC. I love how close nature is to me and, you know, being able to get outside whenever I want, you know. I think that's a lot of fun for me. You know, being in a big city of Montreal, sometimes it would be a bit of a stretch, having a wait for the weekends to come around to get out. You know, I've been following, obviously, your social media and seeing some videos about you and interviews and things like that.

And I'm trying to sort of gauge, you know, when's the last time you, there feels like there's a pep in your step. You're excited. You're legitimately excited about this new chapter, fighting for a new promotion and everything that comes with it. Does this kind of feel like, you know, 2010 when you debuted in the UFC? Does it feel like you're kind of a rookie all over again? How would you, or is it a brand new feeling? How would you describe how you feel about this opportunity as you're, you know, preparing, you know, four days away? I've said in a couple other interviews.

I definitely feel that this is like a chapter three of my career. It's definitely a new saga, you know, I feel like it's something new. But I definitely don't feel like a rookie. If anything, I feel like I'm very mature and ready for the task of hand. Whereas when I started the UFC, I was very unprepared for what I was getting myself into. You know, obviously I was an undefeated fighter back then, but on very small shows, a small town kid, not been to many big light, big light scenarios or limelight scenarios. So I was a little overwhelmed then. Now I'm very well prepared for what I'm stepping into and being a big guy in

this promotion and being a main event fighter in London and all that. So I'm, I'm very happy with where I'm at going into chapter three, so to speak. Chale-Sunnan equated the experience fighting for Belator for the first time, like, you know, the first day at school, because it's, it's, it's, a different system, different people, you were part of the UFC machine for so long. What's it been like for you? Has it been a little different, you know, just dealing with the whole Fight Week experience with a brand new promotion? Honestly, so far it's been pretty good.

Like, Fight Week's been pretty similar. And Bellator has been really great with me, you know, they're very flexible. And, you know, they work with me. And rather than just pushing me along, like, you know, the UFC has to because they're just such a big machine, like you said. it's been great. I've had a great time here with Belator and all the staff and everything. As your fight approaches, I've been thinking about you a lot lately because over the past few weeks,

there have been a lot of fighters who have been talking about their disappointment with the UFC frustrations and things like that. Have you seen any of this stuff? And does this almost confirm in your opinion that you made the right choice by leaving the company? Yeah, absolutely. it seems to have gotten continually worse. You know, everybody's situation is getting worse there. And increasingly people are getting more and more unhappy and seeing that there's money to be made or, you know,

just the way they're treated in general. They're not content with it. So it's good. There's a competitor in the marketplace, and that's just going to make everybody get better. and more option for the fighters everyone's going to get a little bit more money and it's going to be better for MMA the sport in general I think

I'm always interested in this day and age what the sponsorship landscape is for a UFC fighter who goes over to Belatorre because you haven't been in that game for a little bit because of Reebok are you going to make more in sponsorship money for this fight than you would have as a UFC fighter actually I'm making less Oh, but less.

Kind of, yeah, it's more because of the way I'm going about it. I mean, I could have easily went out and got plastered sponsors all over my shorts and banner and stuff and got little sponsors for the fight, but, you know, basically what I'm going out there is for long-term, marquee sponsorships that are going to be out, going to be solid name brands, are going to represent me and I represent them well and be a long-term partnership, you know, and give those sponsors big exposure rather than, you know, be clustered and totally packed

full of a different, a bunch of different random companies that mean that don't have any connection with me whatsoever. So that's the strategy there. So will you have any sponsors for this fight? Yes, I'm sponsored by Monster Energy and Everest. And no more Reebok. The Reebok deal is recently expired, so they were nice enough to continue the sponsorship after I'd signed with Bellator, even though they weren't obligated to.

They stuck on my side. We had a great partnership. We had a great deal. And now that it's come to an end, they're unable to resign. because they're with UFC only fighters only but it was a great time with them they treated me great

and I'm very happy with what we did with them and is it a significant drop or do you feel like you made the right you made these specific choices but in the end you will far exceed what you were making in your last UFC fight oh yeah

no I'm definitely very happy with what I'm going to be making for my time in Bellator even if my sponsor ships are a little bit down. It's not a big deal for me. I'm looking at a big upside right now, and I'm very happy with it. Is this your first fight as a father, or were you dad already when you fought Wonderboy? Yeah, first fight as a father. Wow. And do you feel a difference in your mindset, how you approach what you're doing? I feel a little bit more relaxed and grateful for this opportunity.

and everything. I'm feeling very in the zone and just happy to be here and not stressing about every little thing like I was before. I don't know if that's because I'm a father now, but that's the way I'm feeling. I'm feeling very good about my situation

and everything's just going with the flow and just I'm feeling very mature for all of my past experiences and everything's really feeling very settled. And the only, difference I may feel as far as being a father is that, you know, I miss my baby girl, you know, it sucks being away from it for, you know, even just a short period of time. Do you feel grateful because, you know, I'll never forget when you were on the show before the Wonder Boy fight, how frustrated you were and sounded?

Did you think that after that fight, if things didn't work out, if there wasn't another option out there for you, that that could have been the end of your MMA career? Like, you're almost not on, not getting this second chance now, but was there a part of you I thought it might come to an end after this because you were so, you know, disenfranchised with the whole sport? No, definitely not. I definitely would have, you know, figure out my training situation and my head around, you know, what had been the big issue with that, you know, my shortcoming and my

disappointment with myself in that performance. But, you know, I probably wouldn't be making what I'm making. and, well, I definitely wouldn't, and, you know, I wouldn't be as happy or comfortable with my situation as far as what I'm making and, you know, my future and my kids' future and things like that. Now I'm totally happy, I'm comfortable, I know I made the right decision, and things are great. Is there any part of you that feels like I have to do something really, really special to almost make the Beltaur officials feel like, okay, he was worth the investment.

He was worth us signing almost a year ago. Like you almost have to prove that, okay, this was the right call. I've talked to Chale about this as well. And he said that, you know, the ratings and things like that. Yeah, he does think about that. Like you want everything to kind of deliver and to say, look, this is what, you know, this is why you sign me. Absolutely.

You know, I definitely think about it too. And, you know, I want to perform because, you know, know it's better for me as well but i definitely just i think my mindset right now and the way i need to i need to be to perform at my best to go there and be myself be true to myself and just let it fly like i did in training and the you know the true beauty of my style will really come out and the fans will really enjoy it so that's what this whole training um time or the whole time off and my training has been since my last performance. And, you know, we're going to go out there Friday and just let it all hang out.

And it's going to be a beautiful thing. Last thing for you, Rory, how is your nose? Do you feel like it's 100 percent? Are there any concerns about it at all? No, I really feel like it's behind me. I don't think about it anymore, you know, going through a training camp like I did, having it tested. I feel totally secure with it.

I'm not too worried. about it at all. Do you feel like it's going to take one punch for you to really not even think about it at all, or is that not even a question in your mind anymore? No, you know, I plan on, you know, hearing that bell and getting fired up right out of the gate. I'm not looking to get my nose tested or, you know, anything like that. I know I have to do something to do out there, and I'm going to go there and get it done. And I'm not, I'm not hesitating or worrying

about that because I feel totally confident in it. Thank you, Rory. Appreciate you squeezing us in. Good luck on Friday. And by the way, can you try to convince the people over there in Belator to show this fight live in the United States and Canada? It's not airing live here. Do you know this?

Yeah, I know it's on tape delay. What is up with that? It's crazy. I know. But, you know, good things come to those who wait. Okay, well said. Thank you, Rory.

Best of luck to you on Friday. Can't wait for it. Okay, thank you. All right, there he is. The Red King, Roy McDonald. It's not live. The best fight in Bellator history. Not live.

They got to fix this. I know they don't like to do the fights, you know, in the afternoon on a Friday when they're in Europe. I know. But what about showing them twice? What about one?

once in the afternoon and once at night. They do that with the, you know, the shows in the past. They've done, you know, nine o'clock in the east and then nine o'clock in the West. So it's, unless you have direct TV for the longest time, it was tape delayed there as well. I just can't believe that a fight of this magnitude, a fight this great. I mean, there have been others, you know, Eddie Alvarez versus Michael Chandler's great. But Paul Daly versus Roy McDonald, the debut. you of Roy McDonald is not going to air live? How does this make sense? This is 2017, my friends.

What else is airing? I'd love to know what to, and they'll tell you that, hey, look, we'll get better ratings at night. They'll say that. And they're going to write to me, I know it, and they're going to give me all the numbers. But typically, the fights that they've aired live in the afternoon haven't been the greatest of cards. You can't compare a card of that caliber airing in the afternoon to one of your tent pole. you know, prime time events with the biggest names possible. I mean, it's not a fair comparison. Put a card with a main event like this

of this magnitude in the afternoon and then let's compare it. Now, let's see who watches what. I just feel like sports has to be live in 2017. It really does. It's just, it's the only thing that you can't watch taped. If I miss a sporting event live,

I'll tape it and I'll attempt to re-watch it later. But I just want to fast forward. Or I just want to know what happened. What if something crazy happens? I want to know when it happens in real time. That's how I like to follow my sports. So can we fix this Bellator?

Especially for a fight of this magnitude. We're four days away. Let's try to get it done. By the way, the car took a bit of a hit, and it ends up being a blessing in disguise for the Bellator officials because I thought originally what they should have done was MVP versus Paul Daly and Rory for the title shot against Douglas Lima, but then we come to find out

MVP is out of his fight against Derek Anderson. So he was supposed to fight in the co-main event and that's a blow because obviously they're trying to build him up not only in Belator in general but in that market eventually have him fight Paul Daly maybe

maybe even after this fight if Paul would have lost it would have made sense because Scott Coker said last week that the winner of this fight between Paul Daley and Rory McDonald are you know is going to fight for the welterweight title against the winner of Douglas Lima and Lorenz Larkin that takes place June 24th in New York City at MSG

on the pay-per-view card. So it's a bit of a blow. I heard it's a knee injury and that he might. They're not quite sure just yet, but that he might be out for a little bit. So that sucks for MVP. But it ends up being a blessing because could you imagine if they would have done

Paul Daly versus MVP? And then he pulls out. That would have been a nightmare. So it's taking place this Friday. Wembley Arena in London, big show. They also recently added Kimbo Slices Jr. to that card. And that's an important one for Kimbo because, is it Kimbo? No, I always call him Kimbo Slice Jr.

It's actually Kevin Ferguson Jr. Baby Slice is his official name. The son, of course, of the late Kimbo Slice who actually passed away almost exactly one year ago. It was early June right after UFC 199. I'll never forget it when he tragically passed away. So he has been added to the card, and that's taking place this Friday in London, England. All right, let us move along now for the last few months, not just weeks, months.

A lot of you have been asking me, can we get Joanne Calderwood back on the show? What's taking so long? Well, I wanted to wait for her to get a fight, and it took a damn long time for her to get a fight, but she finally got a fight. And it's happening this July, in Glasgow, Scotland, of course.

It makes a lot of sense to have her fight there, and she is competing against Cynthia Calvio, and a lot of people are very excited about this. So now we finally welcome back, Joanne Calderwood, to the MMA hour, and she joins us via the Magic of Skype. There she is. Joanne, how are you? I'm good. How are you?

I'm doing great. Thank you so much for joining us. So what took so long? I've been chatting at a bit, so just been training, and obviously I had to take some time off after my last fight and get better, because last year I just stayed the same as same fighter, and I didn't kind of jump into the whole try star and get better as a fighter.

So after my last loss, I was like, okay, I need to get better, those things I need to improve, I need to be smarter with my schedule, and just try and be a better professional. and then, yeah, then obviously I thought I would be on March, the London card, and then that didn't happen. So now, I guess, like, I wanted to fight sooner, but I guess it's like it's better late than ever and that I've got a fight. Yeah, and you're fighting in Scotland, which I know you always appreciate.

When they told you that you were fighting Cynthia Calvillo, what did you think? Yeah, to be honest, I didn't, like, I knew it to be. a lot of hype behind her and stuff but I had to like Google it. I hadn't seen her fight or anything so this was like cool it's not who I asked for but I'll take anyone

I just want to fight and every fight in the UFC is going to be a good fight and a tough one so yeah I was excited just to get a fight just to get an opponent. Who did you ask for? Page Ah like I put it to the fans and that's kind of like

what everyone was saying, it would be a good fight and stuff. So we said about our training partner. Wait, you used to, what did you say about training partner? I missed that. Like I got her training partner. Oh, you've got her training partner, yes. Right. Or I think maybe former training partner,

because I don't think that Paige is still at the gym, but they did used to train together in the past at Team Alpha Male. And so you actually saw Cynthia this past week in Dallas at the press conference, what did you think? Did you guys have any, you know, the square off was, you know, it was a pretty solid one. Were there any words exchanged? Did you see anything when you saw her?

When you looked in her eyes, what was your takeaway? I don't know. I've just seen this smarting that was like, like I'm so glad because I was kind of like, I didn't really want to miss training, but I'm so glad that I went because that smirk is going to like just adds a little bit more genuine fierceness to my training. camp and I don't know I guess it's just good to kind of just I don't know like when I get when I do a

stare off I get in the zone and it's just kind of I'm just like so excited for the fight and it was good to see how like how she was like around the stage I know she likes a lot of attention and stuff so I'm just like sitting there like I know I'm going to uh I love the the fighting part and there's a lot of fighters out there that like the attention and stuff but as soon as you're in there to be honest i thought she was taught more shit like trash talk and stuff but she didn't so i guess uh i just thought she'd bring the good fight to do uh to Glasgow but but the smirk and and her demeanor it pissed you off sounds like yeah i don't know i just like i don't know if it's i've never had that before i'm like i just seen this mark you're in like you're in

for a really a ride. Like, don't think you're coming to Glasgow to, like, I'm so determined that I'm going to show, like, my true potential and just, like, no one's going to take that away from me. I guess I was just in the zone, and it could have been anyone in front of me, and I'm just, like, no, this is where I'm supposed to be,

and no one in front of me can stand there and smirk at me and think that they're going to take away from me. It's clear that the UFC is high on her. They put her on the pay-per-view on 209, and then she was back on a pay-per-view a month later, 210. Even at the press conference at 210, Dana White was sitting next to her and was, you know, talking about her,

you know, kind of like a new Yawani on Jacek or a Connor McGreg. I mean, he was throwing a lot of praise her way. Do you think that they are using you to build her up? Who knows? Like, who knows what they're thinking? I just, like, I'm just there to fight, and I don't care about all the politics and all that shit. Like, if you think that then so be it,

but I just have to do my job and turn up to these pressors or do my PR and stuff, but my job is delivering the octagon. Did you enjoy the experience being up there with all those fighters? It was a little bit of a crazy press conference with punches thrown and talking about cocaine and prostitutes and things like that. What did you think of the whole thing? Man, I was like, I can't believe I'm missing training for this.

Obviously, it was a good experience. I got to see Cynthia and they've got to stare off and stuff. But, yeah, I was like sitting like, man, I should be training. Like, I'm missing training for this. And it kind of pissed me off, but it motivated me as well. So, I mean, I can look at it in a positive way or a negatively. And I just, I knew I was getting out of there. I was getting back to Montreal,

so it was a short trip, and yeah, but that's what I was thinking when I was, like, I don't think we should bring insults and all that. I think we should be respectful, and people will argue with me, but that's my thing. Yeah. I would just rather be trained. Well, I would rather go to Montreal

than be in Dallas as well, so I don't blame you for those feelings either. With all due respect to Dallas. Um, and did you see, like, there was some, uh, Daniel Cormey and John Jones were backstage and it seemed like bottles were thrown. Were you in the middle of any of that? I was sitting up the back watching. And, uh, yeah, I was like thinking, oh shit, this is before the curtain went down.

So God knows what they're going to be like when people are watching. Like, because you know, people get, they want to put on a good show and stuff. So that was just through the fighters backstage. So I was like, oh, it's going to get a lot worse when there's like a whole bunch of fans in front of us. But to be fair, it's probably more action when the curtain was up. When the UFC announced that they were going to finally introduce the 125 pound division, almost the majority of the comments that I received from fans were, this is great news for Joanne Calderwood.

Yay, she can now fight at a more natural weight, 125. And so since they're bringing it in, why are you fighting at 115 still? Yeah, good question So I accepted to fight at 115 When I was like Talking to Sean Shelby I said like

I'm always even like Not even that time but before I was always saying 125 125 He's always just getting back to me saying No it has to be at 115 So I just had to make a decision Then I was like

Fuck it I'm just going to go back to 115 Because I want to fight and I guess that's the only way. So, and to be honest, like, I changed a few things up. I've started seeing a nutritionist outside the camp. And so I was, like, a little bit more motivated about making 115. And then, so I told him, right, okay, I'm good for a fight. And then the next day on Twitter, like,

I find out that there was the 125 division. I was like, ah, shit. but I don't know like I said earlier I can look at these things as a positive or a negative and I'm going to look at as a positive because this means I can go put

on a great performance in Glasgow and then who knows maybe I'll state 115 or at least there's an option for 125 but I'll make that decision after this fight I've committed to this fight and I'm going to get

Did you try to get them to change it to 125 after you heard that they were introducing the weight class? No, because they had already sent me the contract and all that. Okay. So I was like, yeah. And so you're not going to say that this is your last fight at 115? There's a chance that you might actually stay there?

Yeah. Wow. I'm just focusing on this fight. I've committed to it and I'll have to make this way. And, but yeah, like, as you get older and the more fights, like, I've been fighting at 115 for more, all in my career. So, yeah, I don't know. I'll see how this fight goes, this weight cut goes.

And obviously, like I see, I'm working with a nutritionist, so I feel like it's a little bit easier. And I just have to reach out and get as much help as I can and make sure I'm doing things right properly. They didn't ask you to go on the ultimate fighter, right? No. No. You wouldn't do that again, would you?

Yeah, probably would, actually. You would? Really? Especially at 125. Yeah. Like, that whole seven weeks I was in the house, I was like, all I could order was eggs and spinach. So can you imagine if I was fighting at 125 I could be having a lobster and shit? But I just thought about the experience of being away and not being able to, you know, communicate with the outside world.

You just did it. I wouldn't think that you would be so eager to do it again. I feel like I'm a better person now. and a lot of things have changed in my life. So I would see it as a positive thing and I would go in and probably enjoy it more. And depending, I don't think all the girls that were in the house would be going back in

because some of them have kind of disappeared and some of them are still fighting that I doubt they'll be in the house. So it may be a different group of hopefully talented up-and-comers. Right. Did they tell you like, okay we're going to bring in the title at this time and this is our like do you have any

details? No you don't know okay it's just Cynthia Calvio that you're thinking about. Yeah like that's one thing like I would like to know these things but I guess like they have to keep their cards close to their chest as well but it does kind of frustrate me a little bit

because this is I'm seeing myself as a business and I'm an athlete I need to know my plans and it would be good to know what would be next after some fear or that kind of thing. But I guess this part of the sport, you never know. By the way, do you have a manager now, or are you still self-managed? Self-managed.

You like that better? I'm doing that. I don't even any sponsors, so, like. That's crazy. Well, I have a commute and stuff. I get five news a week, so that's good. Yeah, it's hard, but. What do you do?

Are you still staying at the dorms? No, I moved out. I moved around the corner. Oh. Yeah, please. So I'm a little bit more settled to have my own kitchen, and that's a little bit easier. Because you know what?

It's like staying in the fighters. It can be a bit messy. We're always like, we'll get it later. But later is usually training. So, yeah, it's killed. So does that mean you live in Montreal full time now? Not full time But I've not been home since

December Okay I want to spend most of my time here Okay I want to get better and stuff I have to commit my time To be in here full time Did you watch the main event on Saturday

Between Jessica and Yuana No No Not yet Just through the time difference and stuff I'm going to watch it eventually But I don't I usually don't stay up live

Because Like obviously in the training and my sleep's important to me so I'll get her into a week that I have a great fight. You obviously know Jessica because you fought her back in September and Yanna I'm sure you know

a lot about as well. Were you surprised when you heard that she beat her five rounds to none? Did you think that Jessica would maybe beat her or give her a tougher fight? No, I knew Joanna was going to win. I know she's got good

take down the fence and she's better scramble. and stuff. And when I fight with Jessica, I've seen that I have to, I can't just lie there and play Jiu-Jitsu. I have to get back to my feet.

And that was a problem for me last year. Like, I was trying to get better at Jiu-Jetsu, whereas I should have been better, getting better at scrambling, getting back to my feet, getting back to my strength and doing more and more Thai. So I just feel, I just knew that Yuanah has that whole game plan fixed

and she has a good team behind her. they would have been doing that for her, so I knew that was going to be the way the fight would go. By the way, I haven't talked to you since before you're fighting Cleveland, so it's been quite a while. And I wanted to ask you about, I remember you posting something on social media about a man that you met on the street and you gave him tickets to the fight and then he left you a note. I think afterwards, what's the story there with this man in Cleveland? Oh, so me and Zach left the hotel and there was a homeless guy and he was walking. down the street he was telling us a few jokes and he's like oh what's going on like there's a lot of fighters around and like at the hotel and I says it was a UFC event and blah blah and then I was like

in fact do you want to go because I've got a few tickets and he said oh yeah I would love to and then I said okay I'll put it at the reception for you and then if you want them they're there so I didn't think anything of it. I thought, and even if he took it then, I thought maybe he would fail it, but then I was like, you know what, it's better someone get some. So then I went down in the next day after the fight,

and he had left my notes that he had went to the event, and although I hadn't got the result, he says that I'm a nice person, blah, blah, blah, and just left a really nice note, and so it turns out he was, he was at the event. Wow.

So it made my weekend. Yeah. It's actually making me a little emotional right now. Yeah, I just like, I just kind of liked him, was trying to make people laugh. He's in a terrible situation, being homeless, but he's still trying to see the good thing and things and trying to make people laugh.

So he kind of touched me a little bit, and I was like, just came to my head, like, do you want to go? That is a great thing. Did it take you a while to get over that fight? No, no, no, no, no. It was good that fight, like, top me a lot because I think it's like being a mixed martial arts fighter, it's so hard.

Like, you have to, like, schedule everything and you have to know what you want to do and what you want to do in the fight. So it just taught me that I'd say take a step back and look at the holes in my game and then look at my strengths and just put everything together. but also finding the team that's been a big thing as well.

Like, it's so hard, like, being in the sport there's so many coaches of so many different martial arts that you need to know and put all your time into. So it's just... And obviously I was a little bit vulnerable, like last year and the year before. So a lot of people see that and they kind of... They want to control me and they try and give me good advice and stuff. But now it's just the case of me knowing what's good for me

and making me working with myself and doing what I want to do. And I guess all this shit just takes time and I'm getting there. All right. By the way, last thing. I don't know if that makes sense. It makes a lot of sense. And I appreciate the honesty very much. I appreciate you putting that out there.

What does the new hair color represent? just a little bit darker than like I'm brown but it's just a little bit darker I just I just got fed up and I had to I dyed at one colour okay and obviously I'm kind of trying a different design with my my shave bit because everyone's got it now yeah so I'm kind of growing it and I've got an idea for Scotland so I'm hoping to change it up can you give us a hint Yeah, so I'm like just going to like This is going to be longer

And then I'm going to shave this bit But it's only going to be half I'm going to die this kind of crazy colour Wow What color? Pink blue For You're like

No, I like it You're not interested No, I'm very interested I'm a big fan of haircuts Is it blue for Scotland? Yeah And obviously what I'll be reading. Right, of course. No, no kilt's allowed still, right? Rebock hasn't allowed that?

No, but I have got an idea for that. Oh. And I'm going to, I spoke to the Reebok people in Dallas, actually, so I have to describe what I want to do and send it to them, and then I'll get seen as approval, hopefully. Kilt? We're talking about a kilt here? It's not going to be actual kilt, but it's going to be something similar. Well, this is exciting. This is very exciting. Yeah, everyone fingers. Okay. We'll pray to the Reebok gods that they make this happen for you.

Joanne, it's great to talk to you. It has been too long. Thank you so much for coming on. You know, great stuff in Dallas. It was nice to see you briefly over there. And I can't wait for this. And I know your fans are very excited to see you back in your home country of Scotland. So best of luck to you.

Good luck as you prepare for the fight in the next two months. And hopefully we'll be talking to you very soon as well. Thank you. Are you going to be at the Glasgow event? Unfortunately, not. I'm sorry. But guess what? You do better when I'm not there. So maybe it's for the best. Oh, really? Well, I was in Cleveland. I don't believe in all that shit.

Okay, fair enough. But I was in Cleveland and, you know, that wasn't that great. Although we did have a nice interview beforehand. So maybe we'll try to switch things up. And for you, I'm deciding to stay home because I don't want to be bad luck. That's the truth. So it's my fault. No, it's for you. It's for your benefit.

Okay. Okay, you'll have to come visit Montreal then afterwards and get an orange Gillette. That is a deal. That is a deal. On your way home tonight, get one for me in honor of me. I know it doesn't probably fit with the diet, but I mean, it's orange tulip.

No, you can't have that. All right, fair enough. After the fight. Maybe if I was 125, then... That's right. Another reason to fight at Flyweight. I'm dedicated. It is the best. It is the absolute best. I'm very jealous that you're so close to there.

But really, it's great to see you back. Great that you finally got a fight. And again, good luck in July. Can't wait for it. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me on the show again. Pleasure as always. Anytime. There she is. Joanne Calderwood, she is back in July. Can't wait for it. Again, Cynthia Calvio, this is a big fight for her. It's a big fight for Cynthia as well. It is July 15th, to be exact. And it's back at the SSE. in Glasgow, Glasgow, Scotland. That's a big one. And of course,

the main event, they actually announced that last week as well. It is Gunner Nelson against Santiago, Ponzanibio. That one kind of came out of left field.

Didn't expect that one, but it's a big showcase fight for Gunner, and Panzanibio is now ranked, and he's on a winning streak, so why the heck not? Okay, we were talking to Joanne about the press conference.

Of course, the big news coming out of said summer kickoff press conference was the incident between Michael Kiesa and Kevin Lee. It was everywhere afterwards. SportsCenter tweeting about it over a million views on their Instagram account. Everyone was

talking about it. People who aren't even MMA fans were talking about it. So let's talk to Mr. Michael Kiesa about it. And he's joining us via the magical Skype. Reping Walt Clyde Fraser. That's how we do. Respect. Let's go. Mike. I love it. And you're ripping the socks. The stance socks on Friday, right?

I was. Absolutely. I was wearing my best pair of Nick's That is fresh. That is fresh. The Knicks actually just announced that Walt is going to the draft lottery tomorrow to bring them good luck. So I appreciate you doing this as well. Maybe this is a sign of good things to come tomorrow as the lottery happens. That's why I'm wearing my Waltz's usually.

I was either Walt or you, you think, you know, like last time you asked if I put the hat on just because I was going on your show. And I didn't. I just happened to be wearing that app. But today I was like, all right, I'm going to put a jersey on. I'm going on the show with the area. I got to pick which one. So I was like in spirit of Walt being at the draft. I chose Walt.

You know, my second son, his name is Walter, and we call him Walt, and we chose that name partially because of Walt Clyde Fraser. That's how hardcore I am, Mike. Ah, that's admirable. Thank you. I appreciate it, you being kind. Okay, so we have a lot to discuss. Here we are, what, 72 hours later, how do you feel about this whole thing?

What are your thoughts on it? It's water under the bridge, man. It's just nothing to dwell on. You know, I've always been a pretty cool customer. I don't ever let my emotions get the best of me. So that was just totally very uncharacteristic of me. You know what I mean? That's just not the type of person I am.

I'm not a hot head. So it's just water under the bridge and, you know, Mother's Day is passed. So, you know, and it was so ironic that this all happened on Mother's Day weekend. So I'm not even thinking about it anymore, man. I'm just back to the task at hand. And it's just, it's all about the fight. Do you regret it? No, I don't regret it at all.

I mean, there's an unspoken rule amongst, competitors amongst men and I think just amongst people in general is it you know it's okay to talk shit it's okay to promote fights but you just don't bring families into it you know and people are saying like oh he didn't even say anything that bad it's like

no it doesn't matter just the fact alone that the word mom came up and in the manner when you're saying like oh you better show up I know your mom's going to be there it's like you know what yeah you didn't say anything that bad but guess what you were en route to going that path and it's not up to

him to know that I'm a mama's boy, but you know, the media knows, the UFC nerves. I mean, for Christ's sakes, if my mom is in attendance and a fight, right after I win, they have a camera on her. You know what I mean? Like, it's just, that's just my one nerve. That's my one button you can push to really get that kind of reaction out of me. So I don't regret it at all, but I know it won't happen again. So it looked to me like he punched you, that he landed a punch.

Did, is that the case? And did it hurt? I didn't even know he punched me until I got backstage. Like as they're pulling me back, I was like, I kept asking Reed. I'm like, did he punch me? Did he punch me? And I'm like, did he fucking punch me? They're like, yeah, did he socked you right in the face?

And, you know, look, I think it was a cheap shot. Because if you look, I've gone back and watched, I look at the pictures. As I'm running up, I get grabbed by two guys. And then he just runs up unattended to, boom, and just punches me. It's not like nobody was in between us. If I had run up and there was nobody intervening, he had every right to punch me in the face. But I even said before I went over there, I was like, dude, security needs to get in the middle of this. I'm about to drop this mic and run over there, you know?

And sure enough, that's what happened. And, you know, it's just funny that, you know, I got two guys on me and he runs up and punches me in the face. Like, I have my phone right here with the picture. And it's like, you know, it's clear as day. But, you know, I'm not going to get on this show and talk a bunch of shit about him. All as I know is I didn't feel like I got punched. I didn't even know I got punched. And, you know, I think that's all I need to say.

You know what I mean? Yeah. And we're actually showing the photo right now as you speak. So it's on the screen for those watching at home. Yeah. And it's like, you know, even just right here, look, he is unattended to as I am just getting swamped. You know what I mean? Like, it doesn't matter.

It's whatever, dude. It happened. I got punched. It didn't even leave a mark on my face. you know, whatever, it's fine. We're going to fight in six weeks. And then that's the best part about it, you know, is we get to continue,

we can continue where we left off on June 25th. So they brought you to the back while the press conference continued, and then you came back out for the faceoff. What did they say to you when you were in the back? Oh, I mean, Sean immediately, you know, they're worried about the fight. They're just like, dude, things like this can get the fight pulled. Like the commission in Oklahoma,

they could see this and you guys could get fine they can pull your fight like dude you need to chill i'm like dude okay i'm cool you know what i mean like i'm cool that's all you had to sit yeah i'm not that big of a guy where i'm gonna lose my temper and it's gonna take me forever to to get my shit together but you know it's like the second he was like dude you got to chill you could get your fight pulled i was like okay i'm chilling yeah you know what i mean like back i got my feet back on the ground you know and that that was just their main concern is they were just worried about the fight getting pulled and you know that would just be devastating i would be very, then I would regret it.

I would regret it if there was repercussions that involved the fight getting pulled. So I'm glad it didn't, but fuck, a lot of hype surrounding it now. Holy crap. Did they reprimand you? Did they, like, scold you for this?

Because he actually said that people in the UFC told him that he did the right thing because you went, you know, you got up first, essentially. You know what? I never got scolded. Listen,

the UFC's not going to scold either of us unless there's just like some serious. repercussions, but the fact that like nobody, there was no fines, no athletic commissions were calling, of course they didn't scold him and of course they didn't scold me because we did, you know, it wasn't my intention for this to happen, but we did what they wanted to do the most and that's promote fights. They want us to promote these fights, make a big, you know, get some controversy swirling and stuff like that. So, you know, of course they're not going to scold either of us. You know what I mean? It's whatever. Well, witness the fact that on the pay-per-view,

they did a little highlight thing and you guys got, you know, a large, chunk of it and they showed the whole thing and I'm assuming it will be in the commercials and in the buildup to the fight. So they may say that they're unhappy, but deep down, this was a home run. That's just a fact. Oh, yeah. We kind of stole the show, I think. And like I said, that wasn't my intentions. That's just my one nerve. I think everybody's got him. You know what I mean? There's some things I could say about him that would piss him off and get him to react the same way. But I'm not even going to mention. I'm not even going to bring him up because it's not who I am. that's not the type of person I am.

And it's whatever. It's the past. The fight's hyped. It's on. We're, you know, they're going to lock us in a freaking cage and we're going to be punching each other in their face. Like, you can't ask for much more than that. Kevin sometimes rubs people the wrong way with his words, with, you know, his demeanor,

what he says, how he dresses. What do you make of him? How do you feel about him? Truth be told, up until everything happened, I actually like Kevin. You know what I mean? We actually, we've been on the mats together at Syndicate a few years back. I've, you know, and I've always gone up and talked to him. I remember seeing him with the Athlete Summit a couple years back, you know, sat and talked to him.

I like, I've never, you know, I don't even like really dislike the guy even after the fact. You know what I mean? It's just you really like it's like even one of my best friends. If my best friend Gary Kelly was to crack a mom joke, I'd flip out. You know what I mean? All my friends know that. We all talk shit to each other amongst the boys. We're always going back and forth trading barbs, but we always have a rule.

like you just leave the moms and the families out of it. You know what I mean? So it's like, I really have no ill will against the guy. You just, you just treaded water. You shouldn't even be swimming in. You know what I mean? So, you know, I know he rubs people the wrong way. And that's, that's understandable.

He's kind of got a mouth on him. But I've never had an issue with the guy. You know what I mean? That doesn't mean I'm sitting here saying, like, I want to be his friend. Right. I'm going to kick his ass on June 25th. But, you know, he's never really rubbed me the wrong way. even when he's called me out in the past,

when he's just, you know, you know, he said he wanted to fight me or Khabibb or Nate Diaz. He's never said anything up until that point that's ever, you know, got me upset. And by the way, he actually mentioned the fact that you guys have trained together in the past when he came to see the media on Saturday. And he said that he thinks that that's why you are kind of acting this way

before the fight because you know what's coming because he insinuated that he got the best of you when you guys trained in the past. Any truth to this? dude we never even did any rounds together we were just in the we were on the mats at the same time and even if here's the thing about me and i have no shame saying this i am not a gym fighter so even if i'm wrong and we have trained together which i'm 99.9% sure we've never gone rounds if i remember correct he came to syndicate during sparring he was sparring with this kid j williams really talented

kickboxer and they were doing their thing but i'm not a gym fighter i perform like shit in the gym I'm always overtrained and just fatigued and cutting weight and whatever. So I'm not acting anyway because of anything in the past. You know what I mean? I'm acting this way over one thing. You talked about my mom. This is all about says nothing to the past. This is just about one thing.

What did you guys say to each other when you squared off? Oh, you know, a lot of profanities. I told him he should take another cheap shot. I told him I'm just smack him around I don't know just a bunch of stuff you know we were both going back and forth you know emotions are running high at that point you know what I mean so I said a lot of things

that were pretty fucking vulgar and so did he and you know of course I kept you know I've I finished it off with a finger in the face and whatever you know it's not one of my prouder moments but I don't regret it I don't know where he's coming up with this thing about his training in the past

I literally I'm one pretty much 100% sure at this point. We've never, ever gone live together. Okay. I don't know where this is all from. Here's the biggest question of them all. What did your mom say about the whole thing? Have you talked to her?

Well, yeah, I talked to her. And, you know, I immediately, I apologize. I was like, I'm sorry, you know what I mean? You're probably getting a lot of unwarranted attention. Here's one thing that I got to say about my mom. My mom holds a UFC record. This is a true story. My mom is the first mom to ever step foot in the UFC.

the Octagon ever after I won tough yeah she was the first mom to step in post fight you know what I mean she's a hall of famer can't be disrespect and a hall of fame mom there's not very many of us yes that is true but uh I immediately apologized and just told her you know I'm sorry and uh you know she she was like you know I'm not upset with you because that's the same way your dad would react and you know my dad was very protective of my mom as well and stuff. So it was just kind of like, you know, I'm just kind of continuing what was passed down. You know what I mean?

So she's not upset with me. She's just like, why am I getting all these Instagram followers and stuff? I'm like, fuck about mom. You're a superstar now. If anything, she should be flattered that you defended her honor. She is. You know, deep down she is. She just, you know, she doesn't want to see me out getting in any trouble.

That was the biggest thing. And, you know, but yeah, she was definitely like not saying she was proud of me, but she knows why I did it. And even then, it's like, you know, it's always like do as your dad does type thing. And, you know, I did as he does. And so it's, you know, she's not upset. She should just soak it up and enjoy it. Did your phone blow up afterwards? Were people hitting you up all over the place?

Because this thing, you know, spread everywhere. Oh, God. dude my phone my phone's still freaking going off man it's it's nuts i mean my friends are like dude you're on world stars instagram i'm like oh man that's so ghetto i've been on world star hip hip hop yeah that's ghetto but you know uh yeah my phone's still going off and you know a lot of people are just like yeah a lot of people don't agree with what what was said and what transpired and uh i feel like a lot of people are in my favor over it and that's not what i'm that's not what i'm looking for, man. I'm not. I don't want people to be, I don't want people to be hyped about this fight because of what happened at the press conference. I want them to be hyped over the fact that you got two guys that are ranked at top 15 in the toughest division in the world. They're going to lock horns in the main event in Oklahoma City. That's what I want people to be hyped about. I don't want them to be hyped because of some your mom joke that blew up. But, you know, it happened. And, you know, if that's what's going to get people to pay attention and get us, you know, it's going to,

this whole thing between him and I really is going to propel our careers. Whoever wins, well, I'm going to win the fight night, but there is no loser at this point. You know what I mean? I'm going to get my hand raised, but this whole blowup at the press conference really kind of benefited both our careers. So, you know, that's what you need to stand out in the sport is you need to not try to be like other people. Like people, people always accuse Kevin of trying to be like Connor or trying to be like other people. It's like, you need to just stand out. on your own and let things happen organically.

That was organic. You know what I mean? Like certain things happen that will get people's attention. You know what I mean? Like look at the things. Look at the things Connor said that's gotten him attention. He wasn't trying to be like anybody. He's just trying to be himself. You know what I mean? That's what's going to get you a fan base. That's what's going to get you attention.

That's what's going to get people's eyes on you. Just be yourself. You know what I mean? Let things happen naturally. Don't try to be like anybody else, you know? There was a lot of bad blood on Friday at the presser. And a lot of people have said to me, like, do you think the fighters are trying too hard to sell fights because of what happened to Connor? You know, he did a great job at these press conference talking smack. Do you think that fighters are, you know, trying to replicate that?

Do you believe there's any truth to that, that people are going out of their comfort zone to talk smack to be controversial because of what he did? Yeah, I mean, absolutely. I mean, a lot of people are. And, you know, and I don't blame them because in this, we have such a limited window in this sport that, you see Connor's success and it goes beyond him being a great fighter. You know, I'll knack the guy. I think he's a douchebag for sure. But I will never say he's not a good fighter.

That guy is elite. That guy has won two titles simultaneously, two different weight classes. His skills, they're off the charts, you know what I mean? But it's everything outside of his skills that made him Connor. You know what I mean? Like we've had a lot of dominant champions in the UFC that haven't garnished the attention that he has and I don't blame people for wanting to emulate what he does. You know what I mean? That's not how I want to be. I'm just going to be myself. You know what I mean? But I don't blame

other people for wanting to do that. You know, you got this small window and the more, you know, Connor gets, Connor makes a lot of money because he's got a lot of people watching him. And that goes beyond him just being a great fighter. You know, so I don't blame a lot of people for wanting to try to emulate that and kind of be loud and talk some shit. shit and cross some lines. You know, it's, it's, I feel it's warranted. By the way, did you go to 211 or did you go home after the presser? I went, me and Kevin were both at 211.

Did you see him? I definitely attended. I brought, um, they had us sitting in two different sections. So, um, I kind of saw like towards the end of the night. I saw where he was sitting. But, uh, um, no, we, we weren't anywhere close to each other. They were, they were very adamant about keeping it separated. And at that point, dude, I'm not, I'm not going to do anything.

You know what I mean? It's said and done. Like I said, I got great talent. I'm a cool customer. I always have a level head. Even if he was to start spouting off your mom jokes or something, I would keep my composure at this point. You know what I mean?

That was just like a one hiccup. That was just like a one-time thing. It was just like, I've never had anybody say something about my mom ever. You know what I mean? Like it blew my fucking mind. It was like, what the fuck? You know, she's a saint.

Her name is Teresa. Teresa, you know. Even if we were right next to each other or anything, and he started saying stuff, I would have just brushed it off at that point. But, I mean, there was even a point when I was sitting on the bus waiting to leave the arena, and they're like, you go on the bus now.

You know what I mean? We got to get Kevin on a shuttle to keep you guys apart. Sit on the bus. All of a sudden, Chris Pravino comes walking up on the bus. And he sees me, goes, oh, nope, turn around, turn around, turn around. Dude, you're not that guy. Jump out of my seat and do something. No, I'm not.

It just happened that one time. You know what I mean? I sympathize with you. I used to be that same way in high school. In fact, one time we were playing street hockey and someone said a mom joke and I took my stick and I slashed a guy in the stomach. And it was like a completely innocent thing. But he said mom and that was my trigger. So I'm on your side.

You can't say the mom word. It's just out of bounds. So I feel you. I feel you. You know, it goes beyond it just being a mom joke. Like a lot of people don't know this. But, you know, that's not my biological mom. You know, I have a long, dark history with my biological mom that's at some point.

Well, you know, we'll come out. I just choose not to talk about it. But my dad married, my dad married my mom, who is my mom now? He married her when I was like, too. So she's been in my life since I can remember. And we're talking, this is a very fragile lady that's been through a lot. You know, she's a widow to a guy she was married to for a long time. I'm very, I'm very, I'm very protective of her.

You know what I mean? Like, it's my job now. No, now that my dad's passed on, it's my job to protect her and stuff. So it's just like, that's, you know, that's probably another reason why I flipped out. You know what I mean? It's like you just, not only is she, my mom,

and I'm protective of her, but there's a lot of history that people don't know about that makes her that much more special. You know, so it's not his fault. He doesn't know other people, but it's like, it kind of makes things, make, that's why a lot of people back home that know these things are like, dude, I'm surprised you didn't fucking kill the guy. It's still trying to or something. It's like,

oh, it's just, it's just a one-time hiccup. You know, that's my lady. That's my number one. Wow, I had no idea. I didn't know that about you. Yeah, yeah. Well, not a lot of people do, because I don't, you know, I just don't talk about it. I always tell people at some point, dude, I've got, I have been through a crazy life. You know what I mean? Like, just, just from what you've seen on tough, that just like scratches. the surface. Like someday, I love to write a book or just do a sit down and just tell this crazy ride I've been on. You know what I mean? Like there's so much to it. And, you know, she's a big part of the reason why I'm here. You know what I mean? So it's just nuts, man. It was crazy.

One last quick thing. And I appreciate you mentioning that. And it certainly explains. I mean, you don't have to explain yourself to anyone, but how can anyone, you know, criticize you now after knowing a little bit about your background even more so than what you've told us in the past. and you've certainly been an open book. What are you expecting? I mean, I know you're confident, and you took this fight, and there was talks of Eddie Alvarez,

but you win this fight on the 25th. Is it fair to expect the title shot? Do you feel like you're that much closer? Do you feel like you have to win one more after Kevin Lee? What are you expecting out of this? I think, you know, I think no matter what, I'll have to win one more. This division is just locked up right now with Connor.

You know, it's just very similar to 185. You know, I'm expecting one more. you know I wouldn't be opposed I know Khabibb wants to come back in September I'm not looking past Kevin I'll give the kid his credit where credit it's tough for sure but he ain't better than me

so but I'm not looking past him you know so I know that Khabibb's waiting in limb for you know in like September and you know I want to get active this year after this fight with Kevin I'd like to fight two more times this year I'd like to stay in shape I'd like to

I've done a good job maintaining my relevance outside of competition but, you know, I need to fight. I need to compete. And, you know, getting a win over Kevin's going to give me in the top five. I'm going to continue right where I left off. So, you know, I'll need one more big fight after that. And at that point, I'll be ready for whoever.

I've been ready for whoever. I've been asking for Eddie. You know, I'm ready to fight. Anybody that's going to get me closer to where I need to be. So, you know, I think that one more fight after Kevin will lock into title shot. Great stuff, Michael. I know you didn't want to really, you know, rehash all this. but I appreciate you coming on and saying your side of the story

and talking about it all and definitely giving us a little more info on your background really means a lot. So thank you so much. Can't wait for the fight. June 25th in OKC main event on FS1. That's a Sunday night fight. Kevin Lee versus Michael Kesa,

it's going to be a great one. Appreciate it, my man. And thanks for wearing the jersey and the hair is looking fresh to death as well. So just for the record, we're looking good so far. All right, we'll talk to you see it. There he is. Michael Kays is stopping by.

Great stuff from him. him and appreciate his candor and his willingness to talk a bit about his background as well, because I know that's not easy. So thank you very much. Can't wait for that fight on June 25th. Okay. Speaking of Eddie Alvarez on Saturday, he fought Dustin Porre. And this has been talked about a lot since the fight on Saturday night.

Should the fight have been ruled a DQ? Was it the right call to call it a no contest? Did he mean to throw illegal knees? Well, there's only one person that could really weigh in on all this, in my opinion. the third man in the cage. He is Herb Dean. He is one of the very best in the business. He is a pioneer.

He is a veteran mixed martial arts referee. And everyone can go online and talk about what they think, what they think they know, their opinion, their two cents. You're not licensed officials. This man knows. And he's on the show right now, and I can't thank him enough for coming on

and giving us his two cents on all of this. He is joining us right now via the phone. Herb, are you there? I am here. Can you hear me? I can hear you just fine. Thank you so much for coming on. So we have a lot to discuss here, and I really appreciate your time.

Here we are a little less than 48 hours removed. Do you stand by your call? Do you think the right call was made ruling it a no contest? Oh, of course I do. I think that is, yeah, I definitely stand by that, ruling it a no contest. You know, I wasn't going to get, my computer is acting strange. I wasn't able to get a PDF for that little chart, But there's a little chart on me for, it helps me when I do my referee course teaching officials,

how we interpret that rule as far as for what to do when a foul happens, whether it was intentional or unintentional or if they're damaged or if there's not damage. So I don't know if you've got to look at that. I actually am looking at it right now because I saw that you tweeted it, and I would suggest anyone who's maybe watching this live to pull that up. Your Twitter account is right there on the screen, Herb Dean, MMA. and so for those that may not be looking at it and for those that would love to hear your point of view,

could you tell us how you got to the decision of, okay, this was unintentional. Yes, it was an illegal strike because he was down, but it was an unintentional illegal strike which leads to a no contest. How did you make that call? Well, he was, it was the strike, and the death of the damage,

he was down. His knee was down, and he was kneading the head. what I call an intentional foul would be an example of an intentional foul to the fighters laying on his back you jump up and stomp him in the face maybe like West Sam's Frank Mirr I believe that might be a good example there's no way you can say that this person is trying to fight with the new rules but Eddie had his um his face his head was over um over Corriett's back he was not able to

I cannot I can't imagine a way where he would be able to see his hands or his knees I believe that he was fighting in earnest and think that thought that his fighter

was not groveing and so there's no way I could say that he knew that for certain I attempted to warn him before he went in with that knee but it was loud in there and I can't

I don't say that he heard me so I don't think that he threw I don't believe that he was trying to fight outside of the rules when he threw that name. I can't say that he was. Right. And do you like the fact that there is even, you know, this distinction between intentional and unintentional,

like in other sports, if you commit a foul, the referee doesn't then have to put himself in the athlete's mind and try to decipher whether it was intentional or unintentional. And yet you are asked to do that. Do you like that there is that distinction there? you rather just be, you know, all fouls are intentional and thus illegal and thus that would lead to a DQ? What do you prefer? Well, I think there's a difference with three sport. And so,

because this sport is, is, the sport is a fight. And so, and so I, I never, you know, that was a really good question. I never had even asked me that before. And so I'm thinking about, no, I do like it that way. Okay, what I don't like is, I do, what I don't want to do is read people's mind. know, I think that if I were to start reading people's mind, you know, that bring up a lot of issues, like privacy issues, you know, am I just going to read their mind about a file or about other stuff, you know? But, so I try not to read their mind. I'm just joking.

All right, I can't read people's mind. Right. So what I can do is if something's blatant, I can call that. If I don't, I can't read whether somebody intentionally does something. But if there is a blatant file that is totally. totally outside of the rules and no way can be seen as an accident, then I think that there should be a larger punishment and the ability to disqualify that person. So I do like the separation. If I have someone who just does something that's totally outside the rules and is blatantly

against the rules, I like that there's a difference between those two track of files and what Eddie did does not fit into something that was blatantly outside of the rules. So another thing that was brought up was the fact that he threw multiple illegal knees. Forget about intentional or unintentional. It was clear that Dustin's hand was down, which means that he's a down opponent and you can't throw a knee.

The fact that there were multiple knees, did that give you pause? Did that make you think, well, maybe, you know, if you do it once, okay, but the second time, you know, this should be, you know, this should be viewed as intentional and thus a DQ. Did you think about that at all? Well, yeah, you know, well, first of all, I, here's the way we describe a downed opponent.

I describe a downed opponent, and this is the way, I don't know if you, that's something I went to ask you. Have you ever, you know, sometimes the cameras are often in there when I'm doing my rules meeting with the fighters? Have you ever heard what I, the rules that I get to the fighters? I don't think I've heard them in its entirety. Or even just a briefness. So in the UFC, I do more of a brief rule.

And one of the things that I go over, and I've been, most of the fighters can say it with me by heart. but they're very, the fighters are really gracious and patient to sit there and listen to me, say something that I've been saying for probably, you know, 15 years, the same thing. I rule a downed opponent as supporting weight. Because obviously if someone's weight is being supported by their hands and by their feet and the fence, and then they reach down and touch their fingers, there's lots of gamesmanship that used to go on with that. And so we started for quite a long time ago, it's very established, that we rule it down the opponent as supporting weight.

Supporting weight means if you snatch their hand away, they're going to fall on their face. So that's what we call it down the opponent. Otherwise, we get into situations where guys start playing games. And fighters, all the fighters know about this, and this sport is referred to as playing the game. And so that's how we avoid that. Okay, now how about this distinction between some commissions where some have adopted the new, rules, others haven't. And so, for example, in New York last month, you need to have four points down in Texas.

They haven't adopted the new rules. One hand is okay. Do you feel like this is leading to some confusion with the fighters? Because if we were in New York on Saturday, those wouldn't have been illegal strikes, correct? Well, I did not rule that there's illegal here. No, but meaning there wouldn't even be any. It wouldn't even be a stuff. Yeah.

But, yeah. I didn't believe that they were supporting weight. And so just, I just want to make that clear. Yes, yes. And that goes, that goes into the instructions that I gave, though the fighters before the fight, I end the instructions before the fight. I always go over, you can ask anyone, any one of the guys who are in this sport, they've heard it a thousand times. A downed opponent is anything but free support away. I've actually given those instructions to, actually to the commentators.

You know, I think I've given those instructions of Daniel Cormiate before. I went over it with Joe Rogan before But, you know, I know that those Those guys there, you know, they Man, they got a lot on the take They, I mean, to sit and have to talk about What's going on for for six hours There's no other sport, I think, where these guys have to do that

You know? Sometimes more, I think Saturday was seven hours. Man, and to think about it and to be interesting I try to do it in it and there's no way I could do that So, I mean, I think we're all kind of serious. I think it would be beneficial, though, is if I were to, you know, I mean, Joe Logan and we haven't really talked about the rules.

Every now and then we get a chance and we chat about stuff, but we never had anything where, you know, we're focused and I'm sitting down, letting them know how we enforce the rules and why and let them waiting on it, you know what I mean? Because, you know, they have an opinion

and they've been around the sport a long time. So I think that would be something that's beneficial, you know what I mean? Because sometimes I hear them making interpretations that makes sense, but that's not how we do the rule. And the reason why we do it that way is, of course, because when you're trying to apply something, you know, the practical part of it, there's so many things that come up.

And so that, you know, there has to be, there's certain ways we apply the rules and there's reasons why we do it that way. Do you also make a point to tell the fighters before the fights in the locker room whenever you see them that, okay, in this state, which we're fighting in, it's the old rules, the new rules. You didn't have to do that, you know, last year. but now because of... Yes, yes, I do.

And I talk about that. And yes, of course, I mean, of course, I think that's... It's very confusing for the fighters that... I don't think it should happen that way. I don't think... I think we should all be on the same page. And this new rule, I think, is going to... In a sports place where it is legal,

I think it's plain out interestingly, because it sucks... I mean, it's a hard thing that, you know, because the way the fighters are taking it is that if they wish to ground themselves, they need to put both their hands down. I would suggest to anybody, and I'm sure the fighter to figure this out, go ahead and put your knee down.

I have a hard time telling anybody to put your hands away from your head, especially both. I think in combat sports is useful to keep a hand around your head, you know, because people, even, let's say you put both hands down, you can't be need, but there's a lot of legal techniques the person could do to you, punches, elbows, things like that that could knock you out. So you want to have a hand around there. you defend your head.

Does it frustrate you that some commissions, some states have not adopted the new rules? Well, it doesn't frustrate me that some haven't adopted it. It frustrates me is that it's separate.

Is that we have two sets of rules. However it came up, however we got there, new rules, old rules, I just want the rules to be consistent. Yeah. You know, I think that's the biggest thing we could do for the sport. So I'm not saying that the other guys need to adopt the rules.

I'm not saying these guys are wrong for changing rules. Everyone's trying to do with bottom minds. You know, people have opinions. For me, it's not about me. I'm in here to serve these fighters. And that's trying to do the best I can do with that. And I think that having a consistent set of rules is the first thing that we can do to serve. Are you confident that sooner rather than later this is going to happen?

Because I can only imagine that it makes your job just that much more. I mean, I think MMA officials have the toughest job in sports because so much of what you do is subjective and in the heat of the moment, there's a lot going on there. And I feel like this just makes your job tougher. You know, because fighters may complain,

oh, I didn't know, rules, this and that, the announcers are confused, and then you get all this hate, this vitriol. Are you confident that this is going to happen sooner rather than later that everyone gets on the same page? I don't know when it's going to happen. I wasn't a part of making the change. Yeah.

You know, I would get more active and start talking to the guys. who did make the change. I talked to some to the different committee because of course I work in the different commission. Some of these guys are going to change

because I think they have adopted the change but it just takes a little while for it to go through the way their government works, the way, you know, so I think some of these states where the rule is not being applied, I think will be applied. I think they attend to

but it's just a matter of time before it just takes a little time before it gets worked out. And then there's some states who have decided that they don't like the new rule and that they're not going to apply. So I don't know if they're going to do that. How do you feel about the argument that some make that knees, no matter where they are thrown on the ground of, you know, stand, whatever should be legal, that this rule of downed opponent, not, you know, in Japan, they're legal everywhere. Would you like to see that or do you like the rule?

well the bottom of my it's a rough sport I've worked with both those rules I've competed under both those rules you know it doesn't really make a difference to me I just want to I just like things to be consistent

that's all okay but you don't have you know a preference a preference yeah a preference um no I mean I think when you're training for something, you know what I mean? You figure it out.

Okay. Yeah, so, a knee of knee. I've heard you say this a couple of times that it was very loud and you don't know if Eddie heard your warnings. Have you ever made a call based on that, on the fact that it was loud and you're giving the fight of the benefit of the doubt? Well, right now I'm doing that. I don't know. So let's say I had stopped the fight and giving him a warning. Yeah.

And now it would be a hard warning. When I stop the action, there's a warning I would do on a fight. Hey, watch those. Then there's a difference. There's a hard warning. Stop action. Hey, you're being warned. And, you know, I may not take a point, but I do stop the action and warn a fighter.

Maybe he may maybe lose a position because of foul. Then if something like that happens again, now someone's been given a hard warning, I can't say that they're being, they did it on purpose, but I can definitely say they're being irresponsible. And so then, yeah, that's different. So did you consider after the first knee stopping the action, hard warning? How do you know when to, or when do you decide to do that? I told you that I didn't call it under the rules that I gave.

Yeah. I don't believe that he was supporting weight at all. Okay. So why did you stop it eventually? Because his knee was down when he received the knee that did the damage. Okay. All right. After the second one, right?

Yeah, yeah. There's a knee. knee is down. Yeah. And that's where the damage is done. Okay. And so then that's why, that's why. On the broadcast, the UFC, I think, has gotten a lot better at being transparent,

and they showed you talking to Mark Ratner, sort of explaining what your decision was going to be. This is not something that I've seen in the past. Why did you talk to Ratner and not, you know, or did you talk to the commission? I came out to talk to the commission. I actually came out to talk to the commission, but Mark Rattenham was there as well. Okay. And so I just wanted to advise you, because, because. If I have, I've already stopped time.

I've already, that, you know, everything has been decided. There's not an urgency to get the action going again. It's always, for me, I think I want to be a team player and let the commission I'm working with know what my decision is going to be and explain it to them because there's no rush at that point. Right. Are you surprised to hear that Dustin is now appealing the decision? Um, no, I think, I don't, I'm not surprised.

I didn't, I didn't know that. I'm hearing it right now. now. Okay. I didn't know that, but I think, you know, he can appeal it if he wishes to. You know, I don't, yeah, that's the first I've heard of it. But just given the fact that it seemed like, from my perspective, that he was okay with it in the cage, like what they were saying and just his demeanor.

And then... Well, I can't. I don't want to judge it by that. You know, there's a lot going on. Guys have a lot going on. You know what I mean? He's dealing with the fact that he's, you know, he's got... I mean, I can imagine he needed some time to process and decide what he wanted to do about

it, you know what I mean? Yeah. You know, there's a lot going on you. It's, you know, he just had a match. Yeah. So, yeah, I don't, I, I, I have no idea why, uh, I can't explain why someone would choose to or not to do something. That's for them to explain.

And just curious, in a case like this, like if a fighter, um, appeal something, do they call on you to then give like a testimony? How does that work? Well, that's happened before, um, where a fighter, um, were a fighter, uh, were a fighter, One time a fighter appealed, and I saw a replay that made me change my decision. What I thought I did, I made a decision in the moment that I thought was right. And then in the replay, I saw that what I thought was a knee, what I thought was a knee to the head, actually hit the guy's tricep before hitting his head,

and it knocked his head back. And so then I did give a statement about what I thought happened. Do you think that replay should be used no matter what in all jurisdictions? I think replay is useful, especially with a fight-ending injury. I can't see a reason to not, especially once it's a fight ending. Once the fight has already been stopped, it's not, you know, because you don't want to start stopping the action to go to a replay, because then people get up, you take momentum and things like that away from people.

But once everything has been decided, I can't see a reason. and not to get the most information that you can get. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And by the way, since we have you, what was your take on what happened in Buffalo? Do you feel like the right call was made in the Widman-Musasi fight? The Weidman-Musasi fight?

I think I talked about that. I didn't really about that. You didn't talk to me about it, Herb. This is different. Okay, yeah. So let's go it over again. The call was because I'm so focused on mine. Sure.

It was the same thing. There was a knee, right? Yeah. Yeah. And the knee was decided they, they ruled that the knee was was a fair blow, right? Well, initially, I think Dan Mirugliana thought that he had four points down, and so he stopped the action, but then I guess he saw the replay,

and the doctor spoke to Wyman, and he said that he could not continue because he thought that he was hit with any legal knee, so that they then awarded the fight, the victory to Musasi, because they said, legal knee, guy can't continue, it's a TKO. Yeah, that makes sense to me. Okay, so you were okay with it. Yeah, that makes sense to me. The legal, there's a fair blow.

The fight is, you know, the fight cannot continue due to a fair blow, so that the result is TKO. Is it tough sometimes when you have these fighters who are being asked questions like, you know, what days and stuff? And they're in the midst of a fight and they've been punched in the head. Do you feel like we're doing the best, we're using the best course of action to determine whether or not these fighters are able to continue. I know it's tough and there's no exact science, but sometimes it feels like there's a lot of pressure on them and both physically and mentally,

and you can understand why they may get things wrong. You get what I'm saying? Well, yeah, I think so, but I think that that's into the assessment and that the doctor does it, the physician does. Yeah, yeah. And so maybe that might be one of the tools they use, but I would imagine that they're using some other things that maybe we're not qualified to critique

to come to their assessment. Okay. And are you happy, and I ask you this all the time, but given the current state of MMA officiating, like as someone who watches so much and is a part of so much, are you happy with the progression of the talent that's out there, judges, referees? I mean, it's amazing to me when I hear sometimes, you know, what the referees make and you guys are officiating, you know, fights where there's hundreds of thousands of dollars on the line, if not millions of dollars. And so I wonder, you know, is still the same guys? Are you asking me if I'd like a raise? Well, yes. Would you like a raise, first off? Of course, I always want to be. Yes, but you deserve a raise. But I love my job.

You know, I love doing what I do. It's, you know, I'm passionate about it. But basically what I wonder is, are there enough good referees and judges in 2017? The sport is 24 years young. Are you happy with the way things are progressing? Or do you feel like there is a need for more? I think things are moving definitely in the right direction. I feel that the, I feel that in the beginning.

that there was a difference between people from the sport and some of the regulators that they weren't used to the sport and didn't understand what it took to be a qualified MMA official. And I think that's different now. Okay. I think that they're getting people who have history and understanding the sport. And so I think that's all you can ask. for, right? I think that I think that the judging is a very hard job.

I think that I think we're always looking at people are always looking at different ways to do it. I think that's one of the things I would like to see happen is that maybe we, you know, always are reviewing, you know, our scoring system and

how we're going to apply it, you know? Yeah. And, you know, and that's another issue, right? With the new rules, the old rules, the scoring system is different, correct? Yeah, the score, the criteria is a little different. Crazy. Yeah, so that's something. But I think that's, I think at least that means that people are thinking about it.

Sure. I mean, I have some ideas about it, but I think it would be something I want to write out a little bit more. But yeah, I think there's always different ways to look at how you're going, you know what I mean, how you're going to evaluate who's the winner. Do you like the new scoring or the old scoring better? There's things I like about both. Okay. Do they ask for your opinion when they institute these rules? Well, you know, the thing about it is I can't totally blame them.

I mean, before when my opinion was in there more, but I do get my opinion in there, but when it's in there more is when I was actually being pushy and showing up, I can't say that I've showed up, you know. I didn't, I haven't been involved in every one of the meetings and every one of the emails. And so, you know, I think that there's some things that I would like to get my, I definitely think I should weigh in on because I think I've got to apply these rules more than anyone.

And so I can think of a lot of problems or a lot of things that might be good about what they've done because I've actually used them. But yeah, I'm going to make sure that I reach out and talk to people more about it. Also, Big John has been, he's been pretty active with it lately. He and I, we talk a lot, you know. So even on some of the things that they're going to apply with some of the new rules, he and I discussed some of them and came to some agreements, and I thought that it was reflected in the rules that they made. By the way, how come you haven't shown up as much?

Man, you know, I think that because the, things have changed with the way that they're doing it and the people involved, and so I think it's, and more things are getting done, and so I think that's, and so it's time for me to show up more. Okay. Before I was, you know, it was a little bit different of a, it was a little bit different.

Okay. And could you explain, before I let you go, you were in the main event, you officiated the main event, and there was some talk I saw as well that maybe it went on a hair longer than it should have. Why did you stop it when you did and not earlier? Well, I mean, he was turtled. You know, and that's a hard call to make. His body wasn't relaxed as if he was as if his limbs weren't responding. He was turtling. He wasn't responding back. but you got to give a guy a chance to respond. I saw that he was, I mean, that he was framed there, and so I gave him a chance. He didn't respond. I stopped it. When I did stop it, I mean, he did stand directly up.

So, I mean, he was hurt, but he wasn't completely unconscious. So I think when a guy is not completely unconscious, I give him the benefit of the doubt to try to work you through. Does this drive you nuts, Herb, that you do this for a living, that you have, you know, certification and things like that. And yet even during this interview, people are, like, arguing with your points. No.

I mean, people are going to have their opinions. People can argue with their points. I'm not here to, I didn't show up on your shoulder to argue with people or to take their points away. That's their right. They can have as much fun what it is they want. I'm here to give some transparency into what,

into how I make my decisions. And to, so that people can, understand why we do what we do. I think that's it. I think that I have, this job is a very, it's a very important job and it's very sacred to me. And so if I'm liable to the fighters and whatnot, if somebody doesn't like me, that's not what I'm here for.

Great stuff, Herb. Really appreciate it. And, you know, if it means anything, if you go back on my Twitter on the night, I was 100%. For whatever it's worth, and I know it's worth nothing, because I'm not an official and I have no certification. I agreed with your call. And I feel like, you know, you, Big John, best in the business by far. If you feel that way, then... You know something?

Yeah. As far as I'm concerned, it does mean something. Thank you. As far as for what I like to do, I like to have conversations with people who are interested in the sport. people who are there who are involved and interested. So even if they're not an official, when I have a conversation with a coach, he may critique my call.

That means if he thinks I should do things a certain way, that means he should think I should do it consistently. Maybe it's going to be his fighter next time. So I like to have conversations with people who are interested. I definitely consider you interested. Well, thank you. And I appreciate the transparency as well. I wish more were like you in the sport,

but it doesn't go unnoticed. thank you so much for coming on and talking about this. And again, thank you for everything that you do for the sport and the athletes. It is greatly appreciated on this side of the table. Appreciate it very much. All right, thank you. All right, there he is, Herb Dean. I mean, Herb Dean, Big John McCarthy.

One A and B. Choose which one you want to call A and which one you want to call B. He explained it. You can have your point of view. I'll take his. And it's great to hear that he stands by his call. It'll be interesting to see what happens as far as the appeal is concerned. Okay, a bit of a break in the action here, and we definitely appreciate him coming on to talk about that. Wow, do I appreciate that transparency very much?

In a few minutes, 15 minutes or so, we're going to be joined by Henry Suhudo, talk about why he had to pull out of UFC 211. And then after that, Darren Williams of your Cleveland Cavaliers, my favorite team. He'll join us before game seven of the Eastern Conference semifinals. Of course, the Cavs aren't playing in the semis. They've already advanced defeating your turn. Toronto Raptors, and they're waiting for the winner of the Wiz and Celtics in the conference finals. But he's a big MMA guy, former high school state champion. A lot to talk to him about. But for now, let us go to Mr. New York, Rick, who is standing by with Rick's picks. Are you there? I am here. Okay.

A bit of a delayed response. Just want to make sure you are, in fact, there. One more time. Are you here? And now it's time to open up your ears and your minds. MMA fans, it's time for. for Rick's Picks. Rick's Picks.

Wow. It's incredible. Because it's, you already know what it is. Whoa. Licks and ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, it's the moment you've all been waiting for. It's the new craze taking the world by storm. Live from the Vox Studios in beautiful New York City.

It's time for. That's better than my intro for the whole damn show. Who did that? It is pretty great. What do you mean pretty great? That was phenomenal. It was done by Mike Heck, who hosts the SFLC podcast. So someone else, Mike Heck, who I know, who hosts another podcast, made a jingle for our podcast?

Yeah, and he can correct me on Twitter if I'm wrong, but I believe he works in production and, you know, in this field. He did an incredible job. Can I hear that one more time? Shout out to Mike. Can I hear it one more time? It's phenomenal. Truly touched. Let's go.

Open up your ears and your minds. M.MA fans, it's time for Rick's Picks. How long did he... It's so soothing. Is that his voice? Yeah. You already know what it is. That's amazing.

Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls. This is what I was looking for. It's the new craze taking the world by storm. Live from the Vox Studios in beauty. This is something else. It's time for Rick's Picks. Wow. Great job, Mike. Heck. Well done. Thank you, Mike. Thank you.

I was looking for an intro music for you. I wasn't expecting that. I wasn't either. I was expecting some crappy song like we've had on this show for the past eight years. You get an actual custom-made theme song? Because Mike is the man. All right. I want to give a shout out to Inzagi Winsall. Who got you got sponsors now too?

No, he submitted a theme. Ultimately, you know, Mike's is so good. I had to choose that one. Wow. You got two themes? But Inzagi also sent us a theme, and I really appreciate it. Thanks to everybody who kind of... Was his really bad? It wasn't bad.

It was just that I got mics, and I immediately knew that was the one. Yeah. Thank you, Mike. And check out the SFLC podcast, good podcast. Okay. What do you got? What are you got? I mean, I was...

The whole thing was supposed to be two minutes. When I told you how many I had, you're like, that's it? There were 15 things that happened in the world of MMA. That is true. I'm curious to see what you pick. Let's kick off number one. Okay, okay, okay. Tisha Torres.

Oh yeah. Getting engaged. Incredible. It's incredible that they got engaged? Yeah. People get engaged every single day. No, but two athletes from our sport... Someone got engaged right now.

But no, I'm kidding. So what you're trying to say is that their engagement means nothing? No, it's a beautiful thing. Let's get the hot take out there. First of all, it's very rare that two UFC fighters. Exactly. Active. Go ahead. Part of the fraternity. Two of, uh, or dare I say, the sorority. Mow, my, mhm, but congratulations to them. I thought it was worth highlighting. Because as you said, I mean, not often that we're going to get two fighters from the same organization that are going to get engaged

and congratulations to them. Yes, let's read what she wrote. Today was perfect. We celebrated our new home with our closest family and friends. She knelt down and popped the question. I love how you make me feel and the way you look at me.

Look at that face. So beautiful. I love you fiancé. What does it say on the cake? It says, congratulations, graduate Tisha. So she also graduated. Yeah, I think she graduated graduate school.

And then what else is it? Congrats on your new home. Oh, Rocky. and tiny tornado. That's amazing. So much celebration. Yes. Geez. New home, graduation. Mother's Day. Mother's Day. The whole thing. Engagement. It's a beautiful thing. Congrats to them. Or as they say, back home, Mazel Tov. Mazel Tov. Okay. Our next item. Oh, here we go. Here we go. There it is. Now, I don't know that you're picking these for the record. Yeah, we don't discuss these ahead of time. I like how the camera is facing me. See that? Even back then, it just...

Can we, let's talk about this. Yes, let's, let's. So explain for people who are listening what we're looking at. We are looking at Ariel Holani. Yes. Circa. Circa, 2003. Yes, you see the date right over there.

August 23rd, to be exact. Holding up one fist. One fist, yes, that's correct. But on his head is what appears to be a bird's nest. Yes. Or an afro. Your call. Or an afro.

That's legit, by the way. I mean, it looks, it looks Photoshop. But I know it's real. No. That is not Photoshop. That is not combed out. That is not a wig. That is my legit hair back in 2003. And if you're only listening, you can find it on Ariel's Twitter.

Yes. My mom sent me this last Monday and I said, you know what? I feel like people will appreciate this photo. And they must know that I was down with the cause, even back then, fighting the power. Now, yes, the fist isn't completely erect. I know. But I was reluctantly fighting the power back thing because you have to understand this. Back then, 2003, I'm in Syracuse.

New York when this photo was taken. I did not have long hair when I went to Syracuse in 2001 as a sophomore. And I didn't enjoy my time. I've talked about this before. I didn't feel comfortable there. I didn't connect with the teachers or the students. And they kept pushing us to be, you know, anchorman, anchorman. You got to go to market 75 and then work your way to number 50 and then go to South Dakota and then Indiana and work your way to here there. I didn't want to be a local news guy. So what I did was, I was like, you know what? I don't want to be who you want me to be.

I'm going to grow up my hair. And the professors got really annoyed and they kept telling me, you're not going to get a job. In local news, if you have a hair like that, you're not going to get a job. You're not going to get a job. And the more they said it, the less I wanted to cut it. And I was so uncomfortable in Syracuse that I didn't want to ever go find a barber. So I would just wait until I went home to Montreal like every three, four

months to maybe clean it up a little bit. but that was the real deal and I'll tell you a funny story about how I got rid of it. You want to know that story? Of course, let's hear it. This is the great story. So this is August of 2003.

I kept that thing up until March of 2004. So I think it was like two years of total. My hair is very thick, grows very fast. That's why I get a cut once a week. I'm actually looking for a new barber because my other one quit.

But that's a different story for a different day. So I couldn't go back home to Montreal during spring break. So I wrote a letter to the Montreal Expos, knowing that it was going to be their final spring training ever as a franchise, they were going to move to Washington after the completion of the 2004 season.

And I got a fake letterhead. I was working for a student station, but it was really just like a broom closet. And so I made this letterhead. I wrote a letter saying that I was assigned to go cover their spring training, which was a complete lie. But A, I couldn't go back home and B, I wanted to go to spring training, final spring training ever. I've never been to it.

So they accepted. No one was covering the expos. I think there were like three beatwriters, which is nothing for a baseball team, major league baseball team. I get to Melbourne, Florida, Space Coast Stadium, middle of nowhere.

And I get there on my first day and I walk into Frank Robinson's little office. Frank Robinson, former MLB great, former MLB manager, returned as a manager after the expos were bought by Major League Baseball

and they put him in as the manager. I mean, this guy's a living legend. And so he's sitting there holding court. There's like three beat writers around him. And here I come, you know, shy, unconfident me with the afro, walking into his office. He's saying something. And all of a sudden he stops talking.

He goes, son, you need a haircut. And I couldn't believe that Frank Robinson was even talking to me and noticed me and acknowledge my presence. And I said, all right, internally, I'm going to go get a haircut. So the next day they went on a road trip to somewhere else. Florida at spring training. I found a barber, some strip mall. I walked in. I said, take it all off. Are you sure? Really? Take it all off? Yes. Take it all off. Frank Robinson told me so. And they took it all off. It was an amazing experience. I was kind of tired of it

by then. Showed up the next day to the stadium. He saw me from afar. He was walking from from the outfield. I was, you know, behind home plate, just kind of hanging there and not bothering anyone next to the other reporters, sees me, goes, young man, look at this, rubbing my head and stuff. Now that's a haircut. Now you look good. I could see your face. So I cut the fro for the great Frank Robinson. That's my story. Two things I've learned. Yes. One, Ariel Halwani's a liar. Lied to get into spring.

Listen, this is what you have to do to get ahead in life. I couldn't go back home and I wanted to, and it was an amazing experience. I got the lay of the land. I could talk to any player. I did interviews with them. I still have them. I got to interview Tim Raines in the dugout about, you know, becoming a hall of famer and it was, you know, 13 years later that he finally got inducted.

I mean, it was one of the greatest experience in my life. It was amazing. And the second thing. we have Frank Robinson to blame for this tragedy. You definitely should have kept that. Yeah, right. No one liked it. Except for me.

None of the ladies liked it. My future wife, Jacqueline, who I knew back then did not like it. Everyone told me to cut it. But I thought I was badass. When I would play sports, I would have one of those. See, you think you're cool with your... This is a tragedy. You think you're cool with your little man bun.

I had the whole thing out. There was no shaving the sides. And I had one of those little things that the soccer players wear, like those elastic things and it would put it back. I was like Joaquin Noah out there. Yeah, my hair doesn't go up like that. I can't pull that off. It's the real deal.

I used to have a pick. I would keep it in there, walking around. I would have seen the, what is it, the Malcolm. Oh, no, you had a hat on. Well, I had the Malcolm X gear. I mean, I was down with the cause by any means necessary. I fought the power. And I think I won.

This one was sent to me infinite times. Everybody who wanted a chance to see this picture again, you've got it. And there's proof that I was part of the Maccabi Games. I'm wearing a T-shirt in 1999. So for all you do, doubters out there. You needed to keep that hair. What a tragedy. Maybe one day. Maybe one day. Look at that thing.

Beautiful. I'm proud of it. I'm with you. You've messed this up. I think I developed a bit more street cred. People don't know about, they think I'm something like, oh, nerdy guy, reporter. You don't know what's what. This is just a glimpse. Our next one, Rumble Johnson. Oh, no, I'm sorry.

Allaya Quinta. Oh, yes. This is great. Raging Al No longer Raging At least momentarily Seems to be on better terms with the UFC Here pictured From his Instagram hanging with Reid Harris Things seem to have been smoothed over a bit

And we're happy for Al We're happy for the UFC Let's get it Let's get it back together Let's spread the love I have a bit of insight on this by the way Talk to me A couple meetings

Some good discussion You see there Reid Al bearing the hatches In fact, Al brought his dad, who is kind of like, you know, his backbone, his spine, if you will. And I actually have to apologize to Mr. Iaquinta. He asked to meet with me, but I wasn't staying in the same hotel. And they were disappointed. And, you know, I was in the back. They were in the crowd. Dana White gave him tickets to the fight. So I believe an olive branch has been extended. And as I mentioned, when this whole thing was going down, it's crazy, but I feel like it's working. People want to get behind. the anti-establishment. Look at that face. Look at that mug. Al-Iquinta is such a mensch. He sent my wife and my mom via me, happy Mother's Day greeting. Oh, look at that. And then you stood him and his family up. Yeah, I did. What a response. So Mr. Iiquinta, you are welcome here anytime. And I'm sorry that

we did not get to me, but I feel like we will in the not so distant future. But this is great to see, right? I mean, look, if they can get behind this guy and check their ego at the door and and play up the fact that this is a guy who marches to the beat of his own drum, I feel like they got something going here. And by the way, this is no scrub. He's won his last five fights in a row. Yeah.

This needs to, this needed to happen and it was nice. You know, I'm happy you highlighted this. This was one of the feel good stories to come out of 2-11. By the way, I extended Henry a little bit, so you got some more time. You got five more minutes.

Okay. How about that? Wow, look at you. Look at me producing while talking. That's what I do. Thank you. Booker T. Next one.

Yes. We've got Rumble Johnson had a conversation with wrestling zone Booker T. Yes. About what's next. This screenshot is actually

from our article on it on MMAFighting.com, but the quotes within allude to him getting into a business. I'm making the assumption. Now don't quote this regarding medical marijuana.

It wasn't said explicitly, but he's talking about opening up a facility. Yeah, it's pretty clear. He talks about cannabis. Yeah, talking about cannabis for medical uses. There was some haziness on what he said. It's a radio interview, so the audio quality.

But it seems like he's going down that path, and he was talking about, you know, CTE and treatments for head injuries and how this was something that will help that. So I just want to say, yeah, this is great. I think this is something we don't often see all the time where, you know, a fighter who's in a sport walks away when he still seems to have his faculties about him and is going to focus on mental health.

In his prime. In his prime. I mean, he's the third best light heavyweight in the world, right? Behind John Jones and Daniel Cormier. Just in a title fight. Look at Booker T getting the scoops. Booker T, getting the scoops. But what's up with, I mean, this player right here is from his show,

and that's an old picture of Booker. I mean, his hair is much longer, so they need to update that thing, first of all. But good for him. And there was actually one quote at the very end. I don't know if you have the article or I could find it here it is. I just have that screen that we have. There was a quote at the very end

that really, in my opinion, stood out. This was the quote. He said, so they asked him if you would come back, if you would consider coming back. He said, that's not me. When I say I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it.

I'm finished, man. I'm not about that life anymore. End quote. So that's Rumble Johnson. Yeah. He's really sticking to this guy's down. Did you listen to the whole interview? Did they ask him about the football stuff or no?

I didn't listen to the whole interview. I only read the article. I haven't a chance to listen to the full interview, but I plan to, and if you plan to as well, we have it embedded over at mmafighting.com. You can listen to it. But I think, you know, it's hard to take MMA retirement seriously.

We've talked about this. I've talked about this at length. I really believe him. I really believe you get into business and just step away. Now, come five years down the line, you know, maybe, maybe he's already successfully launched this business. He's not as intricate and integral to the day-to-day operations.

Maybe he gets that itch again. But for now, I don't think there's any, you know, there's any worry that he's stepping right back in. He seems to be very aware of maintaining his health, especially his mental health. And good for him. Congratulations to World Bowl. Yes, we wish him the best.

Good stuff. Finally, we're going to end on a somber note, unfortunately. but it's definitely needs to be highlighted. We're going to say condolences, best wishes to the family of UFC veteran Nick Coton, whose son Nicholas Scott Cotone passed away unexpectedly on Friday. Frankie Edgar highlighted this in his post-fight speech,

said he was planning to call people out but had to flip it. Can't imagine what kind of personal strife the family's going through right now. So just wanting everybody to send their thoughts to the family of Nicotine. And we have them in our hearts. Oh, man, I can't even imagine. This is worst nightmare.

Especially with young kids myself, I mean, I have kids who are around young Nicholas' age, and it is the worst. There's so much that you worry about with these kids in their crib, when they're walking, stairs, choking on things. I mean, I just cannot imagine. And yeah, one of the great things about MMA is that, as we say, we are somewhat of a community or fraternity. And so I hope people are sending him good thoughts and well wishes. And I can't imagine how I spoke to Mark Henry a little bit, who's obviously very close to Nick and who was cornering Frankie.

And they were just absolutely devastated. And I believe Nick was actually supposed to be in Dallas, just flying out late to be with Frankie. and you can even see when Frankie said, I just want to go home and hug my kids. I started to get emotional too because I thought the same thing. I just can't imagine what they're going through. So this is just, it's a horrific thing.

And I hope that they'll be able to find peace and hopefully their son is in a better place. But yeah, yeah, this is a tough thing to swallow. When I found out about this on Friday, I felt sick. I really did. It's, I mean, you can't, horrific nightmare. those words are putting it mildly.

You can't even fully describe what they're going through. I hope to never feel that. And I'm sorry that they had to as well. Yeah, well said. Rest in peace, Nicholas, and thoughts to the family. Yes, and it says here that condolences can be sent to Colonialfuneralgroup.com, www.

www.com. If you want to send something to Nick Coton, he's also on social media. But good job bringing that one up. I appreciate you doing that. All right. So that's Rick's Picks. And thank you to Mike Heck for giving us that intro music. That's amazing. Next stop. Sponsor? Maybe. In a minute, tough to transition from that. And again, our hearts and souls go out to the Cotone family. That is just a horrendous thing. We will attempt to transition. And we will talk to Henry Sohudo in a matter of moments. He was supposed to come. compete at UFC 211, he was supposed to fight Sergio Pettus. And then we actually saw him at the media day on Wednesday, the House of Blues in Dallas, and just two, three hours later,

after they squared off, we got the word that the fight was off. And so I wanted to have him on the program to talk about this and where he goes from here and he joins us on the phone. Henry, are you there? Yes, how are you doing, Ariel? I'm doing great and I appreciate you coming on to talk about everything. I know it wasn't a very memorable week for you. So let's start here, Henry. We see you at the Media Day.

You squared off with Sergio Pettus. What happens after that that led you to withdraw from the fight just a couple hours later? Yeah, well, what happened was I had thought about just getting a cortisol shot on the area where it was hurting. And once you go see that doctor, I had hurt my head two weeks ago. I hit the top of one of my training partners' head. And I just completely just hurt my hand, like, you know, all those eight metacarpal bones that are kind of in that area just blew everything out. And they got to the point where I couldn't, you know,

I was having a hard time opening, like, my patch, like the doors or driving or, you know, little things like that. but I saw it to the same time that my hand was getting better. So I was doing, I did PRP on it. I was doing rehab. I was putting it on ice. And I felt like getting better and better. And I did the whole stem stuff on my hand.

And it was getting better. I was like, all right, I'm about 10, fight, 10 comes. You know, we should have to, you know, hopefully kind of let the adrenaline take over. So Monday night, you know, I wrap my hands professionally. I'm just saying, you don't, just being cautious. and I just started hitting pads and I just couldn't throw that hand no more like it was it was probably maybe

the first or second punch that I threw I just I just knew it wasn't 100% no more and uh you know it was I knew it was messed up and it was hurt arrow because I was running out at jogs with wraps on and I could feel like my hand kind of separate from my wrist Wow and I just kept hearing a bunch of like little you know

It's just kind of, the separation of, like, little cracks in my, like, in my jaw, especially in my right hand. And I just knew it wasn't right. Max, if I got out, if I, I, I was trying on using my wrestling and, obviously, box or whatnot. But if I can't throw my right hand, if I take somebody down, it's like, what damage am I going to do up top?

Wow. So, go ahead. And I think that was, that was the biggest thing, because, yeah, I'm going to use my hand a lot. Obviously, using when you're fine. fight and I just I couldn't I just I couldn't do anything I was getting maybe at 20% and I was and I was just going to say you know what let's just do it let's just fight and uh let's let's mad up and let's do it but it just got to the point where the last when I woke up the next

day I was opening like the like the toothpaste like cap and even that started hurting my hand and I'm just like I'm just like I'm gonna hurt you open the toothpaste bottle and uh and finally I says, you know what, let's get a cortisol shot. Let's just get this humble with and I won't feel any, any pains. I'll these whole two for my fight. So once the doctor asked with the cortisol, I got a second x-ray because the doctor wanted to do a second x-ray. And that's when he showed me like the separation of my hand, how like how I really jam my,

all those bones pretty hard. And he said there's a, uh, I busted one of the caps. I don't even know the whole terminology thing. But he's the doctor's the one that said. It's like it's, you know, you can fight. You may not feel anything, but I think if you fight and you hit hard a couple of times that your hat could be permanently damaged, and you might need, you might need surgery after a fight like that. So, you know, we thought about it, talked to the team, and nobody wanted me to fight.

The only one that kind of wanted me to push you was for Captain Eric Albertsin's like, because, you know, he knows how tough. Yeah. My whole teenage, but he was against me even going to Dallas. but I just knew it was such a good car man, I wanted to fight and I know Sergio better than just a good matcher for me

Yeah You know I had some new tricks under my sleeve And I worked with Kabib a little bit With Kel Sanderson Working a lot of like riding positions And top control

So just adding a lot of tools To my arsenal So I want to demonstrate that to the people With Damien You know, we brought Damien trainer Out Teutown World Chad working on my stand-up. Everything was good area.

Like, I've never had such a good count on my weight was good. I showed up to the UFC 10 pounds over, waking up at 133. Wow. I mean, stuff that I normally don't even get down to. Yeah. I think my body used to make your weight. But, man, when you're a hand, when you can't, when it hurts to open up a doorknob and things like that, you know, the doctor just said, hey, man, this is a deal.

You can fight. You can do it. But just think of the aptness. Like, you know, as a, if you're my kid, I'd tell you not to, but I know you're a competitor. And if you want, this isn't going to happen. But this doesn't guarantee anything. So what is this? We just decided as a team.

I think more important, I think I just decided. It's like, you know, I got to be realistic, man. You know, it's the, it's the, it's the little details. It's what makes the best, the best. And when I have, with my right ass, it's just not feeling 100%, maybe at 30%. Then, you know, that's why I decided not to fight. What's the status of the hen now?

Do you need surgery? No, we're getting an MRI sometime in the next couple days. Okay. The UFC, they're finding somebody to get an MRI with. You know, they're supposed to send me an email today. but get an MRI and it's just found out what's going on but the doctor says I'm probably out for a good

good, maybe he's anywhere from 68 weeks and I don't know how my hands feel and I don't know what the MRI is because if I have a partial if I have a tear of my ligament and those injuries take a long time Wow

what was it like when you had to tell the UFC that you were out on Wednesday afternoon It was miserable I think it sucks, man. You know, went to the doctor and I talked to Nick. It's unfortunate how much the fans are looking forward to this fight. But, man, I'd like to do it again. I think Sturgeon is a good patching for me.

I think it's a step up for him. I know it's a good matcher for him as well. If you used to be somebody like me, he might be the next guy. At the 125-pound division, get a title shot. And I know that's what they were looking at. So I was looking at, I was just looking more of the, of the stylistic. Honestly, I saw, I saw me and Sergio Pettus's fight kind of, kind of similar to what the Yair and, yeah, year and Frankie Edgar, you know, the good wrestler, and you got this guy that's just a phenomenal stand-up artist. And especially after seeing Frankie's fight, I kind of got an idea of how, you know, what the game plan would have been like.

Like, you know, obviously, in our minds, you know what I'm saying? Obviously, Sergio's a different fighter than Jair, but when you just have guys that are just phenomenal stand-up, stand-up fighters. When you get awesome wrestlers, it changes the game a little bit. That's why I love this fight a lot. I don't know if this got, you know, your way, but initially when the news came out, a lot of the fans were writing, oh, he's going to miss weight.

Did you see any of that, and does that piss you off? Um, no, no, I mean, I'm surprised it would do. I even, I even told me to come up to my room. I said, make you want to come. I figured, I figured that they would think it would be my weight. But I personally, I personally told me because, hey, Mike, you want to come out, want to come to my room and check my weight, man, so I don't want you to think it's a weight issue. I have, I have films, and I knew people would come up with it. I have films, and I also need, I have videos that be doing rehab on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, on, I'm. my right hand, which is extremely painful. That's all, I don't have any excuses. I try to push it through, and sometimes, you know, the body doesn't want to.

The mind wants you, but the body doesn't allow. There's not a connection to the mind, and you just can't do it. Not at this level. You can't. Maybe in the local level you can do that. I can fight with one arm. I can fight with one leg, but the USC is just a different. I guess a tough opponent's different.

How big of a blow is this to you financially? I know it sucks not to fight and mentally you want to go out there. You like the matchup, but you just did a whole training camp. And I'm assuming you have coaches to pay and things like that and you didn't get paid because you didn't fight. How big of a blow is this to you? I mean, it's about $80,000 worth. Wow. You know, and that's the incentive.

The incentive is for me to fight to make money. Yeah. Trust me, I wouldn't back out from nobody for $80,000. I'll fight anybody in the world for $80,000. I fight Mike Tyson Yeah From in front of me I don't guarantee you that I would beat him

In a stand-up fight But I'd fight him Yeah And you still have to pay your coaches Right so now you're in debt From this camp Yeah pretty much Yeah

Pretty much Captain Eric Albertson ain't cheap area I know I mean when you want to get the best in the business You have to pay a price right Yeah for sure And so I'll hear. Go ahead.

No, I like to replay it, but I don't know, whenever my, it's better, I like to re-play it. I like the such a better fight. And obviously, I know they like it, too. I like for that fight, too, what still happened, man. And depending on how my hand feels, I know what the camp wants to do, because I know they prepare for me. Yeah. And I prepare for them. I like to replay that side.

I like, I like that fight a lot tremendously. And, of course, I mean, it has been, you know, you had the controversy with, you know, with Joseph Benavides not that long ago. You had the Demetrius Johnson fight. You haven't tasted victory since November of 2015. Are you starting to get a little antsy? Like, you know, start to feel like, okay, when is this W going to come? You were undefeated prior to that DJ fight.

And, you know, we're approaching a year and a half now. How are you feeling? How's the confidence? Yeah, no, it's a, I was going to use some of my time so much restriction on Sergio. You know, that was part of the sick. That was part of the client me as a fight as a competitor. That's what I want.

And I want to be able to go out there and unleash this frustration, like you said, in a very smart technical way. But, man, I just haven't caught a break, Erie. I haven't, man. Honestly, since I've been in the U.S.C., I thought like I thought, you know, I wasn't defeated no chumps. Yeah. My sect of thought I was fighting Chris Carriotson.

the belt. That's my, you know, my debut at 125 pounds. Like it's, I, I, I saw a tough opponents, you know, like, I see a lot of the UFC, I see a lot in the USC, a lot of guys get built up. And we saw it this, we saw it this card in, and Dallas, Texas, how people think these fighters are axiom when we put them against the elite of the elite, it changes, you know, and that's, that's kind of how I felt with, uh, with Serge a little bit. Like, yeah, he's never I fought a top five fighters, so it was going to be interesting for him to see, you know, work. Obviously, I respect him. I know he's extremely, extremely tough.

But this is the time for the fact to see how good Sergio Bettis really is, you know? And you didn't stick around in Dallas, right? You went back home? Yeah, I went back home. I just, I have no business there. I don't want to be around fighters and none of that. Yeah. I had to go out with my thing.

People were shaking my hand, man. I had to stop shaking hands, dude. I thought I'd go up to them and I just kind of initially kind of kill them like the little fist pump and not shake. My hand was just, I was hurt. I mean, that's how there is to him. If I can fight, I mean, I'll fight, man. But if I can, I just can't. And it's the right, right?

It's my right hand. I broke my left hand when I fought Benavita. Oh, go ahead. Now, this is the opposite head. And the other one had healed? The other one healed. It's 100%. It's my right hand.

Okay. And so you hope to find out later this week that you won't need surgery. And so in a perfect world, when do you think you'll be able to return? And I'd like to, I want to fight already. If I can get on, if I can get on that, if I can get on that John Jones, call me a card man that would be ideal okay i mean i'd like to be with my olympic teammate if we can uh we can be on that same uh same card be cool so i know we're supposed to do it that first time of daniel got hurt uh yep ufc 197 yeah so we never really we never really had

that duel with me and daniel so i'd like to kind of get that going maybe we can do with Sergio again, if they're up, up the wound, if my hand, you know, is 100%. And then last thing for you, Henry, and again, we really appreciate the time. Was the UFC cool about all this? Did they give you any

grief, or were they understanding? You know, they're too busy to get mad. Yeah. They're too busy. It was such a stack card, man. I was, man, I can't, you know, your mind messes with you as you watched it on TV just like, damn, maybe I could have fight. But then you go over there, you just,

you hit the bag, and you kind of do something a little hard, just like, no, I made the right decision. Well, we appreciate you coming on, Henry. Yeah, go ahead. But trust me, Ariel, I do want to, I do want a victory, but I'm kind of, I'm sick of losing. I know. For someone like you who has experienced so much winning throughout his entire life, not just in mixed martial arts, of course, in the Olympics, gold medal, and in college and high school and stuff, this, I would imagine is somewhat of a foreign feeling for you, but you have persevered, you have been through a lot,

so I have no doubt that the same will come true as far as this little speed bump is concerned. I know, again, like I said, it wasn't a happy time in Dallas, but I appreciate you coming on and talking about it clearing the air, and I hope that it's not serious and that we can see you on that card with Daniel.

I think that would be really cool as well. Yeah, awesome. Thanks again, I appreciate it. I'm happy to say what's up, too, so I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you, Henry. All the best to you, and keep us posted on the hand.

All right. Have a good one. Same to you. There he is. Henry Sohudo, one of the very best fly weights in the world and fortunate news for him this past week in Dallas, unable to fight against Sergio Pettus. But there it is. I've seen the pictures.

I've seen the videos. It was not a weight issue. It was a hand issue. And we hope that he is back soon or rather than later. Okay. I am very, very, very excited for our next guest, our last guest of the day. As you know by now, I am a gigantic NBA fan. It is my first love.

I love things basketball, all things basketball. And on Thursday of this past week, we had the opportunity to check out Fortis MMA in Dallas, Texas. That's where Rashad Coulter trains out of. You now know, I'm sure, a lot about Rashad Coulter. He won the Fight of the Night Award on Saturday against Chase Sherman. What a fantastic performance. That was even in a loss. And one of the cool things about Fortis MMA is that it is co-owned by NBA star, three-time All-Star, two-time Olympic gold medalist,

Darren Williams, of your Cleveland Cavaliers. only that, he's a huge MMA fan. And not only that, he's a former high school state wrestling champion, this man knows his fighting, and he is kind enough in the midst of the NBA playoffs to jump on our show. How amazing is this? He's on the phone

right now, so it's not waste any more time. Darren, are you there? I'm here. Oh, wow. How are you doing? This is so cool for us, man. I really appreciate you taking out of the time. I know it's very busy for you over there. So really, thank you so much for doing it. It's actually been kind of unbusy.

I've played in 10 days. I must say, I'm kind of pulling for the Celtics because of the whole Isaiah Thomas story, but your business partner, Safe Saoud, told me that if it went to game seven, you'd have a better chance of coming on the show. So I was happy when John Wall hit the shot

to extend it to Game 7 so that you could come on the program today, and I know you've had a bit of a break. So I do appreciate it. By the way, are you rooting for one team over the other tonight in Game 7? No, no, I'm just a little to be walking. A couple of us are going to watch together, but Not rooting for anybody.

Now here's the bigger question. Did you watch UFC 211? Of course I did. What did you think of your guy Rashad? Man, he fought hard, man. He showed a lot of heart. He battled. You know, it was unfortunate that he didn't get to win, but I think, you know, like you said, man,

he put on a heck of a fight. Got that fight-night bonus, which I know is big for him. And, you know, I'm just happy for him to get the opportunity. Yeah, he told us that he recently lost his job in the mortgage business. He's a single father of two, so I know that 50,000 means a hell of a lot. But that was cool. I mean, was that the first four to seven-ma official, you know, four-to-seven-a fighter to fight in the UFC? Or has there been one before?

It was. I mean, we just opened in December. So we have some guys that have fought in the UFC in the past, but no current guys right now. So, so Rashad was the first one. You know, we have some up-and-coming guys that I'm sure in the future will be in there. Because of the break that you had, were you considering coming back? I know Dallas, you know, that's your hometown, essentially. Did you think about going to 2-11?

It was tough, man. We had practice that day, the day of 2-Eleven, and then next morning at 9 o'clock because of Mother's Day. So it would have been really hard to get there and get back. It would have been a lot of travel for it. But I wish, man. I wanted to be there. I would have been in the corner if I was.

Oh, wow. That would have been sick. That would have been the first, I think the first time an NBA player has ever cornered a U.S. fighter. I know you've cornered in other promotions, but for the UFC, that would have been amazing. So where does the love for MMA start? I mean, when did you first come across the sport?

Oh, man, I mean, I've been watching it for a while. You know, just growing up, you know, being a wrestler, you know, actually one state when I was younger. Not, not high, I had to stop in high school because of basketball being the same season.

But, you know, just had to always had an attraction because, you know, a lot of A lot of MMA is wrestling base. There's a lot of, you know, wrestling-based fighters. And so it just kind of drew me towards it. And as the years have gone on, I ended up, you know, meeting different UFC fighters and befriending a couple and just really got into it because of that.

Just knowing the guys and being able to follow and watch them. And just have a love for a sport. And I train as well. So, you know, I think that brings me even closer. I've heard that, you know, if it's a fight pass card, FS1 card, pay-per-view, whatever the case, Maybe if you can't watch it live, you're going back to watch it, you're taping, like, you're watching everything from the first fight to the last one? Yeah, I watch.

I watch them all. I actually didn't catch the fight pass this time. I got to go back and watch them still. But I saw everything from the prelims, you know, on. So if there's like a big basketball game or a big MMA fight, are you choosing the MMA fight over the basketball game? For sure. Really? Wow.

I've seen enough basketball, watched enough basketball in my life. is is is is is mma like like do guys in the locker room talk about it as well is this something that's popular amongst the players yeah i mean i think certain guys there's guys you know i got teammates say like i can't watch that stuff you know they don't like they don't like they just think it's a brutal sport um and there's other guys that you know love it uh i got some coach you know one of my coaches in dallas jemore moseley he loves it he trains um so it just just depends on the person i think i always feel feel like hardcore MMA fans almost try to convert

non-fans into fans, so you invite them over to your house and try to build up the fights, all you got to watch this guy. And every time I do that, I feel like the fights suck and I feel so much pressure throughout the night. Does that happen to you as well? It hasn't me a lot. It's happened to me a lot. We have a lot of fight, you know, party, watching

parties and, you know, I'm like, oh, this is going to be a great fight and it's just like, oh, it's a stinker. You know, it's part of it. Who of your teammates, past or present has shared your passion for the sport. Is there anyone that was always your guy, no matter what, you guys are watching it together if you're playing on the same team?

Not really. I haven't had anybody that just loves M.A. like that. You know, I got more teammates love boxing. Okay. I would say, you know, which is the case. I grew up watching boxing as well. But I think, you know, now, I think MMA is much more exciting, you know, personally. You know, I still watch boxing.

I still have fighters that I like to follow, but I just think MMA is better. Okay, so it's one thing to be a fan and just enjoy watching it, but now you're involved in the biz. You have a gym, and I got to say, and I'm not just saying it because I'm talking to you, I was blown away by your facility. We were there on Thursday. It had that, you know, new facility smell, but it wasn't just your average MMA gym.

The stuff that you guys have on the roof, you've got the deck, you've got, you know, the mini-putt, you've got a big projector screen. I mean, this is a top-notch, you know, I mean, this is a classy place, and it's brand spanking new, and you've got everything you guys didn't cut any corners. How did that come about? Well, thank you, first of all. And, you know, I go to my partner and coach, Say-Soude. You know, he just had a vision, man.

When I first met him, he was training at another place, Octagon MMA there in Dallas, and I went up there and was training with him. You know, we became friends, and, you know, he told me about his plans to open. the gym and took me over there one day. And, you know, it wasn't complete. It was kind of a shell. But I just, like, kind of you could see things taking shape. And I was like, man, how can I, you know, how can I be involved with this? You know, I knew the type of coach he was and the fighters that he had under him.

And it just was exciting opportunity for me. And I was glad we could make it work. And he just had this vision, you know, to create this gym. I don't know how he did it, but, you know, he did it. and it's been great so far. Yeah, it is beautiful. From what I understand, correct me from wrong,

at first he was playing hard to get. He didn't want to bring you on board. Yeah, I think, I think, you know, they didn't really need the money. You know,

they didn't need any more investors. You know, they didn't need it. But I think, like I said, the closer we became, you know, we're great friends now, you know,

talk, you know, pretty much every week. And so I think that's what kind of made them bring me in. and when you were playing in Dallas because the gym is in Dallas how often were you going to the gym well I was going about three four times a week probably wow well is that something that you have to clear with the team because you're doing you know strenuous activity no pretty smart with with the training you know and he's definitely smart and he knows that I can't get hurt so you know everything

was really controlled and and um I mean straightforward are you ever actually sparring and taking punches to the face I have Okay You like it Yeah but It doesn't bother me It's something you get used to

Is it true that you have considered Doing grappling tournaments No I'm gonna do I'm gonna do some Some Jets tournaments for sure Really? Yeah For sure

Are you gonna wait till you retire? Yeah I'll probably have to Yeah It'd probably be the smartest thing to do Do you compete with Ghee or no Ghee? I do mostly no ghee I've done some ghee

just a little too slow pace for me right now Wow How long have you been doing jiu-jitsu for I mean I've been doing you know off and on You know I've grappled with a couple of my My buddies that you know Josh Berkman and Steven Seiler Who used to be in the UFC I grapple with them in Utah for you know a couple years now

And I work out and train at a absolutely MMA with Rob Hanley in Utah when I'm out there in the summertime. So I've been doing that for about, you know, like four years off and on. But really just picked it up over the last year and a half pretty seriously. So you were doing this training even at the beginning of your, of your NBA career. Does that mean, you know, because I know you have a house in Utah still, right? Yes, I do. Are you going to try to branch out and have gyms all over the country?

No, I think, I mean, that's, that's, up to safe, you know, but I don't know if he's, if he, he, he, I think he just wants to stay based in Dallas, which I don't blame them and, um, just focus on that one gym, making that one gym great and, you know, building it up. Um, as I mentioned earlier, you've cornered a fighter and legacy before for, for someone, you know, like yourself who's played in the playoffs, you've played in the NBA tournament, the biggest stage as possible. What was that like for you to be in the corner and kind of somewhat helpless in, in everything? And I know you sort of relied on the coaches, but to be involved in that experience, walking down,

seeing your fighter going to cage, just the whole thing. Did you enjoy it? Oh, it was great. You know, it just offers, I mean, I've been to fights before. You know, I've been to many fights. And, you know, there's definitely a lot of excitement in the building. But when you're kind of invested, you know, more invested, and you know that person, you've seen them train day in and day out,

and you want them to succeed. It's a little nerve-wracking, honestly. You know, don't get nervous for basketball games anymore. I haven't for, you know, since probably my rookie year. So I was nervous out there. I cornered about five fights that night. Wow. We had like six guys, seven guys on, and I cornered for like five of them.

So, you know, it was definitely a unique experience and something I definitely loved. What was your role in the corner? No, it was mainly just to observe and just to get the experience, I think. You know, I don't want to sit there and yell out something wrong. Right. And what was your record? I let safe do it We went

We went six and one that night Oh wow And only lost was in the title fight But We did good We had a good night Yeah I think your fighter lost to Leandro Higo Who's now in Bellator

Who's one of the best Bantamights in the world A best fight that you've seen in person Best fight that I've seen in person I was in Boston for when McGregor fought Severe. Oh, wow. And that was a good fight because

there's just so much energy in there. You know, Irish people just, they bring a lot of energy and definitely love Connor McGregor, so it was great to be there for that. Now that was in the middle of the season. How did you end up there? This one I was playing for

Brooklyn. So it was just a quick trip. Trip up to Boston and back. Yeah. I love that. And who's your current favorite fighter? Who's the guy no matter what?

You have to watch him live. Oh, man. I can't even. I can't even, I couldn't even pick, man. There's so many fighters I like. Top two, three? On the spot. Right.

Well, John Jones was my favorite fighter. Oh. Was. Once he gets back, once he gets back, you know, he has a fought in two years. So it's hard to say, you know, somebody that's not out there. but I love watching Mighty Mouse You know He's

I mean he's amazing You know He's just so technical He's great stand-up Wrestling He's slick on his back I mean And he can do it all

You see now Now you've just earned some street cred Because you know Anyone could say Connor You know Ronda whatever But you pick Mighty Mouse Like that's the hardcore fans pick right there So yeah I mean

Not a lot of people Like the 125ers Right Because they're not There's not a lot of knockouts to be honest, you know. But, I mean, just watching him what he does and

it's just crazy. You know, he's just he's so patient, you know, he's so smart. You know, you watch a couple of his fights where he has the submissions, you know, he weighs to the last 10 seconds of a round and then he tries something. Instead of trying, you know,

with two minutes and losing position and then being on the ground, he's just smart and efficient in what he does. So now that he tied Anderson's record, some are saying that, you know, he's the best of all time. do you feel about that? Because there's also an argument to be made and he hasn't fought the level of competition, right?

I was just arguing with somebody the other day about that. Oh, okay. You know, it's tough to say, you know. Anytime you're comparing pound for pounds, it's tough. It's tough to judge, you know. But, I mean, you got to make an argument for him. And he beats who you put in front of him. You know, there's only one of his one losses to Dominic Cruz at 135.

So, um, it's it, but I love Anderson too, you know, and, like you said, he's,

he's, he's beating a lot of Hall of Famers, you know, in his career. And so, that's tough, man. I don't want to,

I don't want to have to make that decision. Well, it's just a, you know, a debate, it's a barbershop debate, if you will. Who's your pick for best of all time,

though? Is there one that sticks out? I honestly believe if John Jones was still fighting, you know, up these last two years, I would say him. Okay.

That's just my opinion. Like I said, he's my favorite, so I'm a little biased. I mean, GSP's got to be up there for sure. I think the top, you got to go GSP, you got to go Mighty Mouse, Anderson, John. You know, can't go wrong, really. Yeah. And what about pound for pound right now? Because I feel like Daniel Cormier doesn't get the respect that he deserves,

considering what he's done at heavyweight and light heavyweight. Do you put him in the pound-for-pound discussion or not yet? Does he have to beat John, in your opinion first? Yeah, I think, I think. Yeah, I think I need to see another fight with him and John. Okay. You know, I think John, I mean, John, he gave John a good test, but I think, I mean, John was never in danger of losing that fight, you know, controlled it, you know, from start to finish and, you know, got takedown, did everything he needed to do, and it strikes. So it was a great fight, but I think John won it.

So I need to see that next fight between him, too, a rematch. Has what's happened with John changed your opinion of him at all as a fighter? not as a fighter you know it's just disappointing man when you when you like somebody and you want to see him fight then you know stuff happens you know in this life and I'm sure he's learning from it

you know I wish nothing but the best for him for him and hopefully he bounces back man because I want to see him out there you know doing what he loves doing how closely Darren do you do you pay attention to the business of of MMA because there's a lot of talk that the fighters you know need some sort of

representation and association some protection that they don't make enough money as far as the fights are concerned they make no money from the tv deal very little in sponsorship do you do you think about these things do you talk to the fighters do you feel like it needs to change oh for sure i definitely pay attention to it um you know especially now having your own gym and seeing seeing what these guys go through you know and some of these especially these little promotions you know these guys are just you know they're putting in a lot of work a lot of blood sweating tears you know for very little money um and

It's like a risk reward thing, man. The risks are greater than reward, you know, at that point, because if they get hurt and they need surgery, it's on them. It's, it's, there's nobody that covers those costs. And, you know, it's just tough on them, you know. And so, you even talk about the UFC, you know, it's not like basketball. We have a player's union that's fighting for us and, you know,

helping us, you know, better our contracts and things like that. You know, these guys just kind of are on their own. and it's like whatever, whatever they say goes. So it's a tough situation. Do you feel like it will happen? Does it need to happen for these fighters? I don't know. I don't know what will happen.

You know, I think there are definitely some changes need to be made, you know, because it's kind of, you know, taking a lot of money out of their pockets the way things are going. Yeah. But I guess, you know, it's working for the UFC, obviously, you know. Business models working. So, you know, I don't know. It's a tough situation. Isn't it crazy how the salary cap went up by so much last summer?

I mean, directly because of the TV deal. For sure. And the UFC is looking to get around 400 million for their next TV deal in two years, and the fighters make 0% of that? Yeah, that's, I mean, it's tough because, like you said, I mean, our ours went up and so did our pay, you know, and everything with that. And so, yeah, I mean, that's definitely something, I think, that, I don't know how you, how you go about forming a union,

you know, because when I got into the NBA, the union was already formed, you know, and so it's tough, man, I know guys have talked about it, you know,

you've seen fighters talk about it in the past, but it seems like when they talk about it, and they end up in Bellator. And do you watch Belator as well, by the way? I watched it a little bit. You know,

it doesn't get promoted as well, so I never even know when it is. I got the UFC fans app, USC TV app. I got FightFass. So I always know, when everything is. UFC, it's like,

first I don't watch Spike TV, so I never know when fights are going to be on. Damn. But I'll catch them. I'll catch them, you know, every now and then, especially if King Moe's fighting. That's your guy.

Another Dallas guy. He's a Dallas guy, so, you know, I watch them. If you're not playing on Friday, write it down on your calendar, Spike TV Friday, Rory McDonald against Paul Daly, Bellator,

that's a fight you need to go out of your way to watch. That's going to be a good fight. Yeah, that's one. That'll be a good fight. I'll record that one for sure. Okay. Cool. By the way, before I let you go, I'm just curious. This is the basketball fan of me coming out. How much are you enjoying all of this? Because it felt like in Dallas, you know, things weren't really going anywhere as far as playoffs are concerned. Now here you are with the super team, conference finals. I mean, we all kind of think you go into the finals. Does it feel like you have like this new lease on life? How would you describe this? For sure, man, it's been a blessing, you know. And I love my time in Dallas. And I was happy, you know, staying there even though we weren't.

We weren't going to make the play. Well, we had a chance to make the playoffs, but it wasn't looking good for us just because the organization was so great and coaches and my teammates. But, you know, this has definitely been a great opportunity for me. I haven't been to the conference finals since my second year in NBA. And so it's one of those things where it's just like you don't know when these opportunities are going to, you know, come. You know, this could be my only chance to get to the finals and compete for a championship. So, you know, I'm just making the most of it and trying to enjoy it and soak it all in.

It's been a great experience. What has surprised you most about LeBron? It's one thing to play against him, but to be in the locker room with him, has anything kind of jumped out at you? Nothing, because I've won two gold medals with him. That's true. That's right. I've been around him and he brings to a team, and it's the guy how I've always wanted to play with, you know, even when I was on other teams. And so, you know, I'm definitely glad I got this opportunity to play with him because, you know, he's going to go down as one of the all-time greats for sure. And, you know, it's an honor to play with him.

And do you feel comfortable now? It's one thing to, like, come on a team, you know, offseason, but, you know, midway, the champs, they've got a thing going, they've got a lot of big names. I would imagine it takes some time to feel comfortable, right, to feel like, okay, this is my role, this is how I'm going to be effective. Yeah, I mean, it definitely was because, you know, this is a new situation for me. You know, I've always been a starter and played, you know, 30 plus minutes. And so to come to a team in the middle of season, you know, I'm backing up Kyrie.

who's one of the best point guards in this league. You know, playing 15, 16 minutes, you know, it was definitely an adjustment. And I had to figure out how to get going and how to, you know, be a bench player. And it's a different role. And, you know, it took me a little bit of time to adjust. But now I feel like, you know, it's the right thing for me right now, you know, at this point. To be able to compete and help this team win, you know, I had to relish that role. kind of have to check your ego and just be a role player,

but that's okay for the greater good of the team, right? For sure, man. I mean, if I'm going to be able to win a championship, you know, it's definitely worth it. I feel like LeBronk could be a fighter. Was he like 270 at this point? Have you ever talked to him about this? He won't tell anybody his weight. Oh, really?

That's his thing? Yeah. Wow. He won't tell anybody. But you talked to him about fighting because he's a fan, right? Yeah, he watched his fights. Yeah. I don't know if he'd ever fight out either of a fight.

I don't think he needs Floyd money. That's right. That's right. You'll watch that, I'm assuming, right? Floyd versus Connor? Is it going to happen? It's close. It's close.

I hear they're in the red zone to steal a football phrase. Like they're almost there. I never know. I mean, I just read somewhere, said Connor finalized his side of the deal. Yeah, it's close. Oh, man. You keep up on the news.

Yeah, man, I got all that. I got, yeah. Yeah, all right. You can follow everything on Instagram, first of all. That's true. I mean it comes across my feed every two seconds some MMA so okay last thing I'll kill myself if I don't ask you this KG and Paul Pierce and Terry those guys were kind of dicks right could we admit that that whole thing they were great come on man

well they were talking about the the well they were talking about Ray Allen but then like when they talked about Brooklyn I felt like they were kind of taking some subtle shots like what happened there I mean, it doesn't even matter. I mean, it's over with. I moved on. I don't, and this stuff doesn't phase me. It's true.

I went through a lot of stuff in Brooklyn, man. And I'm just happy that that part of my life is behind me. You're happy to be out of Brooklyn, basically. For sure. What a mess that was. It was good, man. It had its, you know, everything has its ups and downs. And, you know, I'm not going to say I wish that it didn't happen in my life because, you know,

there was a lot of great times in Brooklyn. and made a lot of great people and great friends. So, you know, lifetime friends. So, you know, I would never not want that part of my life to happen. But, you know, a lot of it was just tough, man. I was hurt, injured, you know, and wasn't having fun because, you know, I couldn't perform like I wanted to. And, you know, the fans probably weren't happy about that.

So neither was I. Nobody felt worse than I did. Right. I'll tell you that much. Well, I'm happy you're healthy now, and I'm happy that you're healthy now, and I'm happy that you're on a great team and that you're very close to fulfilling your dream of being an NBA champion.

As a diehard Nick fan, I'll say, I know Brooklyn didn't work out, but hey, if, you know, off-season, contracts up, I'd love to have a guy like you running the squad. I know it's a mess over there, and I wouldn't wish that upon anyone. Who the hell wants to play for Phil Jackson? I mean, what a mess.

But we'll get into all of that. I mean, it's disgusting what's happening to this team. But I would personally welcome you with open arms. So we'll deal with that later. I appreciate it. For now, good luck the rest of the way. And again, thank you so much for coming on the show in the midst of all of this. And thank you for supporting MMA. And thank you for that

gym. It's just an amazing thing what you did. If anyone's in the Dallas area, I urge you to go check out Fordus MMA. It is a beautiful facility. One of the best I've ever seen, no joke. And it just feels like you're a pro athlete when you're in there. It just kind of oozes that. So congratulations to you and safe. And good luck the rest of the way, Darren. This has been a real treat for me. Thank you for me. Thank you for having me. I'm a big fan. So, you know, this was great for me. Cool. All the best to you and good luck in the conference final. All right, thanks, man. All right, there he is.

Darren Williams. How about that? How exciting was that? I wanted to cut to New York Rick in the midst of all of that, who was probably just dying to ask about what J.R. Smith's jersey smells like after the game

or what Saman Shumper doing with his hair for the conference finals, but I cannot afford him that luxury. What'd you think? What'd you think, New York, Rick? That's Darren Williams. That's the backup PG for your Cleveland Cavs.

He passes the test. That's for damn sure. You can tell when someone's legit, right? He knows his stuff. Yeah, you can tell. I mean, there's no doubt about it. I was recently on the,

on SB Nation's podcast, Fear the Sword. Wait, you were a guest? Yeah, oh yeah. Get out of here. They know, they know the calves. Shout out to Chris, who hooked that up. They had me on,

they asked me who was my favorite cav, that wasn't Kyrie, wasn't LeBron. I think I went with Richard Jefferson, who I love, but I got to switch it. I have to switch it immediately to Darren Williams. The guy knows his stuff.

Yeah, that's really cool. That was awesome. And I feel like we're perfectly aligned on the John Bones-Jones' as goat thing. So I was impressed. Did you ask him any questions when you teet- No, I had to kind of keep it. You were all pro?

You didn't say good luck? I didn't say like, you know, hope you guys win and that type of thing. Nah, come on. This is a big time. This is got to keep it pro. See, now I'm a little bit torn because I like the guy so much.

I mean, look. Now I have to root for the Cavs. You're known to jump bandwagon. That's true. So this one's open. You know, if you want to get on a championship squad, this is your best shot. It's not going to happen for the Knicks. No, it's not.

I think I'm, you know what? I don't know. We'll see what happens tomorrow. Look, you've got your hooks in the jazz. You've got this connection. Jazz who? I'm done with the Jazz. Oh, my God.

I'm done with the jazz. Look what they did to Darren Williams. They shipped them off to New Jersey. Wow. Derek Favor. is still working out for them though. Yeah, but that was really cool. Yeah, that was great.

I mean, clearly he follows it. He knows what he's talking about and seems to like relish this. The idea that he might compete in Jiu-Jitsu is incredible. And not even might. He seemed pretty confident and sure about it. Oh, yeah, yeah, I'm doing this. Yeah, so as soon as the NBA, you know,

career wraps up, which hopefully is not for a while, hopefully we can win a championship this year and he stays on. but yeah, Darren Williams, Jiu-Jitsu. It's going to be incredible. No joke, and I'm not just saying it again. I was really impressed with that school or that gym, if you want to call it that. Again, Forte-Sem-A in Dallas, the head coach is Safe Saoud, but it just, it was a beautiful facility. So they've got like the mats, they've got some bags, you know, it's kind of standard on the first floor.

Then you go to the second floor and it's all kind of cardio stuff. Then you go on the third floor and that's outside and it's an outdoor. deck with grass and stuff and the bathrooms. I mean, it's all brand new, December, as he said. And then there's another floor outside with, like I said, the mini putt and like the big chest pieces and a projector. And of course, none of this actually makes you a better MMA fighter, but this is a place where it's clear, I mean, it's not dirty. And I know some fighters like, you know, that old, gritty feel. I wouldn't be one of those. Maybe that's why I'm not a fighter. But it's just a place where you feel comfortable and you feel like you're treated right. And, you know,

it's a professional gym. And it's open to the public as well. So, yeah, it was really cool to see Rose and Pat Barry were working out for us. And then Derek Lewis as well. That was Thursday in Dallas. And it's right in the heart of Dallas. So when I found out that Darren is a co-owner, if you will, I was like, oh, man, I would love to have him on the show. And then they told me if it went to game seven, he'd be free.

John Wall hits the shot. I was so damn happy. now you may have given the Helwani kiss of death though unfortunately last time two years ago two years ago we had Mike Miller of the van of the Cavaliers on and after his appearance the Cavs lost in the finals

and Mike Miller was no longer on the team that's true I'm about that part so I'm a little bit worried because your sports team allegiance is proven to be very fatal for teams chances so I'm hoping that you didn't give us the kiss of death.

By the way, maybe I have a recency bias here, but I feel like Darren knows a little more than Mike. I think Mike was knowledgeable, but yeah, I mean, Darren's really like in the nitty-gritty of it. If he's cornering fighters, he's planning to compete in Jiu-Jitsu, he can talk about, you know, all the different fighters who are in the pound-for-pound conversation,

like he follows it. Belvoir needs to step up their game. Clearly they're not. promoting enough for the NBA players. Got to get them involved. King Moe's doing a good job. King Moe. That's his guy. How about that? King Moe's got that street credit. All right. So that was awesome.

Thank you very much to Darren Williams. Thank you very much to Save for hooking that up. And thank you, of course, to all the guests who stopped by today. It's funny how we're kind of geeking out over Darren Williams and we talk to like Yuanio J-Cag, we talk to Tyron Woodley and here we are being geeks. A few other things we need to discuss

before we say goodbye. So Steve Miochich wins on Saturday, he knocks out JDS, two straight title defenses that ties the heavyweight record. Is he in that conversation for you? Absolutely. Best ever? Absolutely. And because if you look at actually who he beat

en route to becoming a champion, on route to the title fight, the Mark Hunt fight, right? The Arlowski fight, and he's knocking these guys out. Yeah, that's the thing. Up until this point, I think, you know, he hasn't had those defining moments

that you could point to and that's why I think he's kind of flown under the radar a little bit but at this point knocking out over him knocking out Jr. The guy is

unquestionably in that conversation and I think you can make a very compelling argument that he's number one. The names on his resume and how he's looked it's at this point

I think you'd be crazy to leave him off that conversation. Since losing to Stefan Struve in 2012 he'd be Roy Nelson via decision. Remember at the time, no one thought he deserved to be in there with Roy Nelson. Took that fight on short notice and that was somewhat of a revelation, right? Huge upset. Then he beat Gabriel Gonzaga via decision. T. KOs Maldenado in 35 seconds in that heavyweight fight, remember?

Excuse me, Maldonado moved up. Yeah, Maldonado moved up to heavyweight. Then he lost the JDS in that amazing five-round fight. Some people even think he won the fight, deserve to win the fight. Then he completely annihilates Mark Hunt. KOs Arlowski in 54 seconds. KOs Verdoin in 2 minutes in 47 seconds. KOs Alastair Overeem in a little less than five minutes. And then KOs JDS in 222. That's a damn impressive resume.

Now, why do you think there's a disconnect there? I mean, in Cleveland he's a star. And again, I think he needs to go back there. And it just translates on TV and in the press, the bigger he is. And Dallas showed him love. Dallas showed him love. but it's different.

They're showing him an embedded or the countdown show and LeBron's giving him a wink as he's about to shoot a three-pointer during warm-ups. It's different. But why is there that disconnect there? Is it because he doesn't talk a lot of smack

or he doesn't do interviews or he's not very eloquent? Why do you think, I mean, here you have a heavyweight champion who is knocking people out. His last four fights were first-round knockouts. That's like a promoter's dream. Yeah.

I'd say that I think that's it, but I'd, I'm thinking of Kane Velasquez who didn't have that issue and is very similar in terms of riding down the middle, keeping himself reserved and not making huge statements just to get attention.

So I don't know if that's it. I would think that that's part of it, but Kane Velasquez had no problem kind of grabbing that attention as the baddest man on the planet without being flamboyed and boisterous himself. So I don't know. You know, one thing I'll say is what I said just just a few moments ago.

To this point, his style, his, you know, he's good at everything. But, you know, wasn't knocking people out, was kind of just using his well-rounded game plan and a rather skill set to get it done. You know, wasn't the thing that draws the eyeballs. But to this point, now, you know, the last couple of fights, you can't cite that anymore. So I'm not sure. I'm not sure what it is. I think if you're not paying attention to him, you're making a mistake and missing the peak of one of the best fighters on the planet.

He's slowly but surely coming into his own. I really like the interview that we did, and it has been a challenge to sometimes interview him, and he admits to this. I mean, sometimes he doesn't give you a lot. But on Wednesday, I thought he was fun. You can really get his personality out if you're asking about anything but the fight, which is only going to take you so far.

But even afterwards, he was very funny. He was very personable. He's very confident. And I thought it was very interesting to hear him talk about needing some time to think about things. And if you'll recall back in January, he said that he thought the UFC mistook his kindness for a weakness. And he didn't like his contract. And it was a rocky road to get to 211. And I believe that he was alluding to that.

Okay, I won the fight. Now what? And if you look at his Twitter, there are some hints there as well. And I asked him about that. He didn't want to divulge his feelings on the state of his relationship with the UFC, but I do believe that is what he is referring to, that this man wants to get paid. This man wants to get paid what the heavyweight champion of the world, who's knocking people out in the first round, four straight fights,

deserves to get paid. And, you know, I think the fact that Overeign made more than him in Cleveland really bothers him. I get the impression that Stipe is one of those guys who's super loyal, like blue collar, you know, has his principles and will have your back no matter what. But if he feels like he's being wrong, this really, you know, even if it means, you know, sitting out or something, this guy is going to stick to his guns. And so I'm very curious to see what happens to him next. And who he fights next whenever they figure this out.

And Ganu? I don't know. Maybe too soon. To me, the fight is Kane Velasquez. But from what I hear, he's still not 100%. There's no real clear-cut guy. Overeem's fighting Verdume. I don't necessarily want to see those fights next.

Maybe Verduem because he was the champion, but he just fought over him. He just fought Verdum? It wasn't that long ago. Yeah, I know, but, you know, Verdum comes back. You know, he has a win. In Cleveland, he'll get another win.

I'm saying if he beats Overeem, okay, you know, maybe he deserves a chance at his belt. I don't hate that. I think Overem's a bit of a tougher sell because he was the challenger in that title fight. But it's important to remember that he damn near got him out of there. Overeem was on the verge of winning that fight. I think the heavyweight division, you know, it's cliche, it's obvious, whatever, you know, whatever you want to point to, any guy can come in there and land one punch and take the title away.

Yeah, but I think. You want to see some fresh matchups. You know, Derek Lewis is fighting Mark Hunt in a month. Look, I think, you know, you can't slow roll the heavyweight division. If Ngano gets that shot, I think you've got to give it to him. If Derek Lewis gets that shot, I'm not mad at any of those matchups. but I also, on the other side of the coin, I'm not mad if we see a rematch in the heavyweight division either.

I think there's a lot more intrigue, and I think it's a lot more sellable at heavyweight than some of the lower weight classes where we've seen something run back a few times. I feel for JDS, I mean, this is, gosh, if there is a nicer human being on this earth than JDS, I don't know if I've met them. He is the jolly green giant.

He's the jolly Brazilian giant. I mean, he just always has a smile on his face, pound for pound, one of the nicest fighters in the world. And, you know, now we're back. I brought this up last week. I felt like people were ignoring the fact that it had been 13 months since he last fought. He only won once since the win over Miochich in 2014. And now we're back to wondering about, you know, the kind of punishment he's taken, you know, has he passed his prime, all these things.

You know, he says he wants to come back soon. He was very emotional about, you know, the loss and what's next. I don't doubt that he will fight again, but you wonder if he'll ever be champion again. and Joani and Jacek wins and what more can you say about her performance again and sometimes I hate when we do this best ever, best ever but I feel like now

she has a legitimate case one away from Rhonda and you can make a case that her competition just as tough if not tougher I think you can make a very strong case that it's tougher I think she's already probably the best female fighter

we've seen certainly currently that's not even in question I mean I tweeted this every time we say this is going to be her toughest test she makes it look easy she's just that good and I think there's no doubt about it she's she's box office

she's incredible like there's sells fights she's a great interview she's the complete package now cyborgs in that discussion unfortunately for cyborgs you can't find anyone to fight her yeah it's tough it's a it's a bad scenario right now for you know just making that case for cyborg just because

where you know where is opponent going to come from. And even, and even, you know, let's say, let's say it's not Megan Anderson, then it's a 135er who's, you know, going up to 45. It's, it's not a clean scenario for this. Do you give Rose a shot against Yanna? Yeah, I mean, I think she's going to bring a different dynamic than any of the fighters, Yowna has fought to this point. But if I, if you're asking me who I think will be the favorite, I think it would be Yohanna and big. I think Jessica had the skill set

that I would be most worried about for Yohanna and she neutralized it completely. I wish Rose had a couple more fights to go on a bit of a run, get more confident, but that's the state of the 115 pound division. By the way, Mazel Tov to Jaskan Drudge on getting engaged. A lot of love in the air these days in the UFC.

And I don't think her stock goes down that much either. She hung in there. She was tough. And she even said it herself before the fight, Yawanna is a more complete fighter. She's someone who's fighting in her first main event, first title fight, And Judge will be back and she's definitely one of the best

115 pounders. Maya defeats Mazvedal. That was a great performance. No controversy. Thought he deserved to win. Do you give him a chance against Tyran Woodley? Not really. Wow. I don't think stylistically. I think for Tyron That's probably one of the easier matchups he could have. Really?

I do, yeah. I don't think... User than Mazvedal. Stylistically, yeah. I think Mazvedal's skill set... Because if he keeps it standing, then he'll... If he keeps it standing, it's not going to be close on the feet. And I think Tyran...

I think Tyrone will be able to keep it standing, ultimately. Or in the grappling exchanges, I think he'll be able to overpower Maya. I just... I think anybody else, I like Maya, in this matchup, I think it plays into Tyran's game. I think, you know, as somebody who's able to kind of mix the striking and grappling, like a Masvedal would have been a tougher test, to be honest, for Woodley. And that's just kind of how the fight game goes. I don't think, you know, it's, I'm not saying Mazvedal is a better fighter or Maya's a worst fighter,

and the result could have been different. All I'm saying is stylistically, I think this fight is more beneficial to Tyrant. Yeah, we'll see what happens if they ask him to fight on July 8th. But yeah, this is the fight. If it's not, obviously, GSP, who I think at 1-7,000. is able to cut the line to a degree. It makes a lot more sense there than it does at 85. Right.

But hey, how about Damien Maya? He takes the fight. Everyone thought it was crazy that he had to take the fight. And then how about Dana White saying at the presser that you need to earn it in the UFC? Like submitting Carlos Condit, who was higher ranked than Mazvedal back in August, is not earning it.

Like, you have to beat someone who's lower ranked to earn it? Well, he's earned it. Yeah, well, now he's earned it. But still, I don't know if I'm taking that one to the bank. It was amazing seeing Maya stand or sit next to Frank Yeager who was told not that long ago

that he was going to get a title shot after knocking out Chad Mendes and we all know how that went. And also for Mazvedal, I mean, surviving in the first round, the take down defense, I don't think his stock goes down that much either. No, Maya's been dominating. Maya's been blowing through everybody. I thought Mazvedal had a case to be made for winning a round,

if not two. Now, I agree with, you know, ultimately with the scorecard were. But I thought my sorry, Mazvedal was completely game and just got outgrappled by a better fighter. From what I understand he wants to return soon rather than later some names that were thrown out

Wonderboy Magni, the Wonderboy fight would be really fun. I think Mazvedal would be game in any fight against any of those guys. Well he is the game bread by the way. He's game bread. Yeah. Frankie Edgar what more can you say about him? Holy smokes. He's just unbelievable. I think we can pump the brakes

on Yair Rodriguez as being the next big thing for a second. This is not hindsight. This is not 2020, but I was surprised when they booked this fight. And I would have been the first to say, hey, yeah, you're the real deal. I mean, you beat Frankie Edgar.

It doesn't get more impressive than that. But again, as we talked about last week, to go from BJ Penn in 2017, no knock on BJ, he just is who he is, to Frankie Edgar is a massive leap. There's a bunch of guys in between there. Yeah, and I think even beyond that, you know, BJ Penn, I would consider almost an anomaly

just because it's, you know, put together for a very specific reason. His last fight before that was Caceres, and it wasn't like he went out there and blew the doors off Caceres. It was just going to be a big leap. Now, granted, I think him getting that opportunity

is ultimately good. He can learn from this and build, so I don't think it's a case where I can't believe they made this matchup. I just think it's a case where, let's pump the brakes, build him up, and he will be in the title conversation at some point in his very young career right now.

he will be in that conversation in the future. Well, it really was a win-win for a year, and I know he didn't want to take it that way before the fight, but, you know, again, I don't think his stock really goes down. It's just back to, okay, the slower build, and you're super young, and I don't think anyone is saying, oh, he got smoked by Frankie, he's in nothing, and he'll never be anything.

Two things I just want to quickly point out. One, I thought it was very intelligent on the broadcast where, you know, they showed that camera, and he had the opportunity to get out of that fight, and he chose not to. the commentary team astutely pointed out that that says a lot about a fighter couldn't agree more

it shows that Yaya wasn't looking for a way out of that fight he was looking to win that fight and that's an important thing for a fighter going forward and number two Frankie Eger is a legend living legend the guy's career is

you know a fairy tale you know winning the title and facing the caliber opponents that he did at 155, and then continuing that success at 145, now granted he's lost to Josie Aldo, but Josiah, I think Josie Aldo is one of the best fighters to ever do it, as is Frankie. The guy is a legend.

We should be, you know, worshipping the floor he walks on. Frankie Edgar, I can't even think of the words to talk about that guy as a fighter, his career, is going to, maybe not now, But in hindsight, I think he will be talked about as one of the all-time greats. And I'll also say this. Some people change along the way. He is the exact same guy. After winning the belt, the ups and downs, he is the exact same guy no matter what.

Now, we don't know what's happening with Cody Garbrandt. He's in Germany right now. He doesn't sound very confident in the fact that he will be able to fight on July 8th. We don't know how severe his back injury is, but it's clearly an issue. And the fight is in jeopardy. Witness the fact that T.J. Dillshaw is campaigning for Demetrius Johnson. but if he's back soon rather than later and that fight happens at some point

and if Joseo Aldo wins at UFC 212 I'd love to see Frankie versus Dominic Cruz at 135 winner gets a title shot because he's not going to get another shot at Aldo and I don't see why he should be fighting these random guys at 145 let's see him go for another belt and try to be a champion at 135 in for it

how cool would that be Dominic versus Frankie Edgar okay other news and notes David Branchie wins do you kind of feel like he has to do something impressive in his next fight. I mean, yes, it's 11 in a row, and yes, that takes something, but he went back to the old David branch.

Yeah. Is it the old David branch? That's kind of just David Branch. He was kind of finishing guys. Not the last one. In New York, you know, it was a It's frustrating to watch. Look, does he have to know? I think, you know, ultimately at the end of the day, the calculation is he wants to win,

and he's good at that. So I don't want to, you know, be too tough on a guy who's winning fights at the highest level. You can't fight on pay-per-view if that's, I mean... No. Someone sent me an email saying that Verizon charged $6999 for that pay-per-view. You can't ask people to pay for that. Now, that was a late, you know, happening.

But you're held to a different standard. I think the thing is more important for David Branch to think about is that, you know, a fighter like a Yushin Okami or a John Fitch or even a Jake Shields, those fighters went to WSOF from the UFC because of their style. It wasn't that they weren't viable for. fighters anymore. They're still clearly very good fighters and great at the style that they had. But, you know, David Branch is now coming from WSOF to the UFC. And that style was one that wasn't ultimately valued. So I don't know where he goes from here. But I think I'm reluctant to be

critical of a guy who, you know, who won his fight and the UFC is. He was critical of himself. I'm sure he has, you know, corrections to be made. But I think getting. the win is more important than style points at the end of the day. And, um, no, because at the end of the day, look at Damien Maya. You're not going to get a title shot if you're not getting any style points. You get some along the way. And that's a calculation for him to make. But Damian Maya is the perfect example. If Branch can, you know, string together 10 of them, he's in there. But maybe it's, it's a quicker route if, if you're looking for a different route to victory. I've weighed in enough on this whole Eddie Alvarez

Porier thing on, on Saturday, talking to Herb Dean. You know where I stand. In short, Do you agree or disagree? I disagree completely. Moving along. No, well, why do you disagree? I think there's a... Illegal is illegal? Well, there's a confusion.

People think that... You're saying Herb Dean is confused. No. What I'm saying is people when... Well, I don't think Herb Dean made the right call. I'll say that. Okay. I think when people are talking about intent,

mattering or not mattering, you're looking at the wrong thing in the conversation. Intent always has to matter. You can't blindly say, if he did this, it's this, and take intent completely out of the conversation. I think intent always has to matter. But what we need to consider, so having said that, Eddie Alvarez intended to throw that knee. I think there's no doubt about that.

But did he intend to throw any illegal knee? Yes. Because the knee was ultimately illegal. No, but there's one, okay, if someone throws a headbutt under any circumstance, that's illegal. But knees aren't always illegal. In that specific case, because Porier was down, that was an illegal knee. So the question is, not did he throw the knee on purpose or not, we all know he did, but did he know that the opponent was down, did he mean to cause a foul?

Do you get the difference? But it's his responsibility to know the opponent was down. Well, that's the thing. So if he knows that he was down, if you're saying he knows, then that is an intentional illegal knee thus leading to the DQ. but I guess, you know, Herb Dean is saying that he doesn't believe that. He doesn't believe that he knew, but it's his responsibility to know. You know what the biggest issue is here?

The biggest issue is not so much, this is in my opinion, the takeaway. Because we could say, oh, he may have thought he was in New York and it's legal. The biggest issue is, and Poria even tweeted about this, what he really wants, the reason why he's appealing this is so that he can get the W. It's so that he can get the win bonus, right? And it goes back to what I've talked about time and again. This system is broken. This is all about that win bonus. And I don't blame them.

Both guys deserve their entire purse, not just a portion of the purse. And that's the real crime here, that one of them was robbed, that they both walked away with just their show money, that the UFC, they have spreadsheets. It says, okay, you know, win, show, show win, If this guy wins, show win, if that guy wins, like they calculate all of this, but they kind of got away with one.

If no one gets their win bonus, it's just two shows. And that's the annoying part, in my opinion. Yes, I think that's obviously valid and important to consider. That has nothing to do with the actual rule. But it doesn't have to do with this because the question is,

we don't know if Dustin would object to this ruling if he got his win bonus. Would he be okay with getting a no contest? Yes. I mean, he tweeted it just earlier. He said that's what this is all about. He can say that, but he's not in that scenario. It's easy to say, yeah, I don't care about winning.

All I care about is that, but he's not in that scenario. And I'm not saying he's lying. I'm not saying that he's misleading people. All I'm saying is he's not in that scenario to make that call now. They need to get all on the same page. And again, it really has nothing to do with Saturday night, but it just highlights the fact that some states are going by one set of rules, others other set of rules

it's embarrassing and it's an ego thing yeah that's that much is clear I don't think it came into play in this but I think it's clear no but I mean he can make the argument oh you know I was uh my bill was wrong and I thought I was in a state where this was legal here was the most interesting part of your interview with Herb was when he was talking about

and I don't think many people know this and I think that changes this scenario for a lot of people was he saying that a fighter is not actually grounded unless they're putting enough weight on it that if you kicked out their arm which is interesting, yeah. They would fall on their face.

Yep, yeah, yeah. That's not something I was aware of, and I don't think many people who are watching that are aware of. So he didn't consider the first knee illegal because Dustin wasn't putting enough weight on it. So that changes it for me, certainly. Oh. No, I still think it should have been a disqualification.

But that first knee, based on that, and he's briefed the fighters, and I saw Brandon Gibson say on Twitter that he's heard this many times as well, that he's been briefed on that. Coach Brandon Gibson. That changes that there was only one illegal knee. Now, I think it was a blatant, clear, no doubt about it, a legal knee.

And I don't think whether he intended to land an illegal knee or not an illegal knee matter. That's part of the rule. It's not a blanket thing. Like if someone travels in an NBA game or holds on to face masks for a pass interference in an NFL game, that's just blanket. It doesn't matter if you intended to do it, if you intended to bump the guy, if you intended to charge. illegal is illegal but in MMA there is something called intent and so it's up to the referee

and it's crazy that they have to make this determination I don't necessarily agree with it but that's the rule. That's why somebody like no contest exists. Where is that line? If this is not an illegal knee if this is not an intentional illegal knee what is? What would it require

saying Herb I'm going to knee this guy in the face illegally what would be the sign of that? It's crazy. Because this is as blatant as bearing more weight on his hands. Maybe if he was on all fours, maybe if he was on all fours and the guy came and ran up, maybe he, if you tried to, you know, soccer kick him. I mean, yeah, I mean, this is very subjective. I agree. I'm just going by the rules. I'm not one who's making up his own rules. People are like, oh, illegal is illegal. Well, no, that's not actually the rule. No, the ref has an

input here and has to make a judgment call. And that's very difficult. It's very difficult. It's incredibly difficult. Again, in an NBA game, the referee doesn't have to determine whether he meant to barrel over his defender. A charge is a charge. There's some subjectivity, but not in the case of... You get my point. Yeah, absolutely. You have to actually decide if it's intentional or not. That's crazy. It's crazy, but that is the rule. Anyway, let's move along here because we are running out of time. Jason Knight, shout out to him. Another great victory. I want to give a shout out to Courtney Casey, who seemed somewhat frustrated after her win over Jessica Aguilar, and that's a very impressive win, not only for her win, but also for what she said afterwards about, you know,

not getting the attention and respect that she feels that she deserves and the current state of women's MMA. Check out that scrum if you go to our YouTube page. I thought she said some very intelligent things. And I think she's actually one of the more underrated fighters in women's MMA and in particular in that 115 pound division. And how about James Vic? Our guy, James Vick, who I now believe is six and one, if not seven in one in the UFC. I don't want to rob him of a victory. I think he's seven and one. He is killing it. And it was cool to see him speak up as well on the mic

and to voice some of his concerns about the way he's being pushed. And that was another impressive victory for him as well. The Sherman Coulter fight was fun. It was a great car from top to bottom. I love the Texas Commission. I don't know if you caught this at the morning Wayans on Friday,

cracking a joke about the New York Commission. I mean, this is the greatest irony of all irony. The Texas commissions cracking a joke about another commission this was about the towels and whatnot, but I just thought that was really funny, and I don't think a lot of people picked up on that. The summer kickoff on Friday, did you feel, like some people said,

to me, this was an embarrassment, it's getting too much, they're trying to be like Connor. Were you okay? I mean, you know, cocaine, all this stuff. A lot of stuff was said, I mean, the fight, were you okay with it for the most part? Yeah, that's the nature of this game.

And also, I saw an equal number of people being like, oh my God, did you see that? It was so great. That's how this is going to go from now on. And if people don't want it to go in that direction, they have to stop responding to it. All anybody could talk about was the John Jones quotes and the Kevin Lee and Michael Keyes. I actually thought it was a turning point for Daniel Cormier. I don't know if you could tell, but a lot of people were cheering for him, DC, DC, DC, DC. It was the first time that he was getting some love in the exchange of the 85 times that he squared off with John Jones. And to me, the big difference was he wasn't telling the fans how to feel.

He was talking to John. He wasn't telling people, and he did a little bit of this in the back, which I would argue as a mistake. He was telling John Jones how he felt about him. He wasn't telling the fans what to think. And I think fans responded to that a little better. Yeah, Daniel came off well in that one.

And I thought John came off fine as well. Justin Gachie was there, clapping up a storm. Gage might have been the winner of the day. I mean, the whole exchange with Michael Johnson, to me that was a little cringeworthy, like saying, like, I eat my pieces of crap hole. what is that? Was that a happy Gilmore joke gone wrong?

I don't know what that was, but I thought when Johnson said something about being ready to die, and Gachi was like, I'm ready. Come get me? I was impressed. My favorite line from Johnson was calling World Tories of Fighting the Sea League. I thought that was great. It was good.

But then Johnson just being like the kid at school, at this new school for the first time, just loving everything and almost like, you know, star-struck by what's going on, but just so enthusiastic. Do you mean Gachi? Oh, sorry, Gaichi. Yeah. Gachi was just so enthusiastic about everything.

It was great. Clapping. He was hilarious. So they announced Chris Wybin versus Kelvin Gasselam. Main event. July 22nd, Long Island. It's a tricky one for Chris. Kudos to him.

Taking another big fight, not working his way back up. The Kiasa Kevin Lee incident, we know about that. Cormier and Jones, Justin Gachi, Michael Johnson, Calvillo against Calderwood. Also, Amanda Nunes and Valentina Shavchenko had a Fun little back and forth as well. So the faceoffs were fun. We have those online.

They also announced Doho Choi versus Andre Feeley. So a lot of people were wondering what happened to Choi. He's going to fight Feeley in July. I believe Dennis Bermuda is fighting Darren Elkins in July as well. So stay tuned for that. They announced Dana White's Contender Series. Did you see this? Tuesday.

Fights in the Ultimate Fighter House. Kind of one-offs, a chance to fight your way into the UFC live on Fight Pass. I believe five fights weekly. How do you feel about this? I like it. You like it. I like anything that's a departure from tough, which I think, you know, we all have kind of voiced at this point is getting a little bit stale. I like something.

If they get rid of tough, this would be good, but this and tough is a little much. Yeah. And ultimately, I think this is probably based on the success of Dana White's looking for a fight where we have something similar to this. Now, that's obviously taped and not as relevant. This is better, in my opinion. But I think that this is a step in the right direction, clearly. This is a chance for them to also take flyers on certain fighters A chance to test people out

A chance for a lot of women to get more fights Because that's an issue So let's see how it goes I wonder if it's going to have You know Broadcasters and things like that Like what's it going to look like I hope it looks a little different than tough

And if they try to build up the fights a little more So we'll see it more MMA We all wanted it So let's see how that turns out Let me quickly tell you about the BSP The Bisping GSP drum So Dana White announces on Wednesday that he's canceling the fight. To the best my knowledge, none of the fighters involved have been told that it's canceled.

You know, this is maybe what he wants or he's frustrated, but I wouldn't cross that one out just yet. Let's see what happens. Let's see if, you know, Bisping agrees to fight you, O Romero. Let's see if GSP is okay with sitting. Again, how could you criticize Michael Bisping, who's had this carrot dangled in front of him, who's done a press conference, who's been told. that he's going to make a hell of a lot more money than he's ever made in his career. If GSP is ready to go in November, three months after the proposed date,

is it really his fault that the UFC can't find a main event? So I wouldn't take one to the, that went to the bank just yet and witness the fact that we didn't report it. Because from talking to all the people involved, they're not saying it's completely off the table. Now, I don't doubt that that's what they want to do, that they want to move along, that they need a main event for July 8th or August or whatever.

I don't doubt that, but will it actually come to fruition? Remember, not that long ago, we were told John Jones isn't going to main event. And guess what? He's main eventing. Not that long ago, we were told no fly weights in the UFC, as far as women flywits are concerned. And guess what? Last week they officially announced, flywights are coming. And by the way, remember what we said last week?

If they come out with the news and it's the exact same, same details, it was botched, right? Yep. Came out with the news, same details. Now what I was told was There's channels that they have to go through And you have to tell Fox And Fox didn't know Could we not have done that retroactively?

No big deal But kind of felt like it was botched Like I said to Darren Williams Floyd Connor It's getting close That is true I was told the red zone Do you know what the red zone is?

Yeah the 20 yards before the end Yeah So let's see Chris Cyborg still doesn't have an opponent And Jermaine Jermaine random, that whole thing is just a mess. It sounds like, you know, she might not fight again at 1.45. She might vacate that title, but no official decision has been made. And I'm expecting one

sooner rather than later. They're trying to do, you know, I don't think Megan Anderson has a shot. I don't think they want to commit to a featherweight who can only fight a featherweight. So yes, there has been some talks about Katzengano. And initially I was told it wouldn't happen. Now I'm being told there's a chance it might happen. Cyborg is growing ante. Her team is losing patience. Her contract is up in October. She wants to fight in July,

but the clock is ticking. It's a mess of a situation. It really is. So we'll see what happens there. But if you were hoping for Cyborg versus Germain or Cyborg versus Megan, as of right the second, crazier things have happened.

It doesn't look like that's going to happen. As I mentioned, Cody Garbrand's back is messed up. He's in Germany. TJ wants to fight DJ. DJ says no thanks. I don't think that's fight. That fight is going to happen. And I think that DJ is going to fight in around August.

And I hear that they are trying to go to Seattle to have him fight there to break the record. Or at least fight to break the record. So stay tuned for that. Joe Silva is now a member of the 2017 Hall of Fame class. This is pretty cool, right? Very cool. I'm wondering, will he talk to the media? Because, you know, he had that muzzle on him.

I'm hoping so. I mean. Wasn't his doing. Yeah. I think if there was ever an opportunity, this is it. Yeah. They still haven't talked to Anderson-Silvin cleared the air. So I guess as of right now, he's retired.

But I have talked to some people in his camp. Something, you know, once they talk, clear the air, he'll come back. Others not so sure, but still no resolution to that just yet. By the way, speaking of Mighty Mouse, did you see that pick? I thought that was going to be at Rick's picks for sure. The 10 belts. They got them. How did that not make the cut?

I'm not trying to go for the most obvious cut. I'm trying to dig a little deeper. Okay, fair enough. But it was really cool. And he gets to keep the belts. Now, I wish he would have had him. The overeem pick where he has all the belts. He's too small for that.

What do you mean? Make it funny. Wrap ten belts around yourself. Maybe he did another one. He only posted one. We'll see. Maybe the outtakes come out. Okay.

And finally, like I said, Bell Tour is back this weekend. Who do you got? Daily McDonald? I think Rory. I think ultimately he'll be a little more well-rounded. He'll be able to avoid the power. And I think he takes it. Daily McDonald, what a great fight.

Boy. In fact this weekend as well. I was getting there. I wish I could watch it live, though. Daily McDonald. Oh, you're talking about Daily McDonald, not live. Liam McGeeery versus Linton Vassel. Czech Congo is also on the card.

As I said, baby slice on the card. So it's a solid one. Unfortunately, no MVP. but we get the main event that we all wanted. And yes, we do have Invicta. Best Fight on the card? I like the main event, Agnizhka and Jennifer Maya. I'm sorry, not in Jennifer Maya.

And Vanessa Porto. Now give me Agnichka's full name. Oh, needvich? Okay, I'll take it. Sounds like it. Looks like it. I think that's it. But I'll leave that to TJ and Julie.

It's not my area of expertise. That's true. our friend Roxanne Mataferi here she is the happy warrior. It's a great card for fly weights. Andrea Lee as well. Great. Great fight card for fly weights

and then the UFC can take all of them. No stop. Just kidding. All right. I think we're done. Anything else? That's it. I got an email about some future odds.

Aldo minus 140, Holloway plus 110. Claudia Gedelia minus 300. Carolina Kovacavich plus 230. By the way, Karolina Kovikavich, my favorite part of that press conference. She's always next to all the madness. She was next to Connor in New York.

She was next to Johnny Jones in Dallas. And she just sits there. And I stand by my statement, somewhat angelic-like, just kind of smiling and taking it all in. And then they go to her for one question. And she starts off with, hello, Dallas. And it's all very sweet. I like it very much. She's got a great gimmick.

I don't know if she does it on purpose, but it's a lot of fun. Overeem. Verdum, who's the favorite? Overim. Yes, minus 150 Verduem plus 120. Jones Cormier line just came out. This is all

according to Bovada, by the way. You saw this? No. Jones minus 225, Cormia plus 175. Romero Bisping for that not yet official. Minus 260 Romero plus 200.

And then Garbrand Dillishaw. Sorry, what was that? Minus 260? Yeah. I'm a little surprised by that. Not terribly, a little bit. And I'm also surprised at how big a favorite John Jones is, actually.

No respect. Yeah. No respect for the champs. What was the last one? The last one was Cody and TJ, which is on the ropes at the moment. Cody is going to be a favorite for sure. Minus 150 plus 120 for Cody. Yep. There it is. Thank you, Bovada. We'll see if those fights actually come to fruition.

All right, we are done. A little overtime for you all, but we had a lot to discuss, a lot of people to talk to. and we thank you for sticking with us. I'm done. You're done? Okay, I think that's yes. You came my music. Yeah. Well, I don't have any custom outro music like Mr. New York Rick.

Well, he just has an intro song. Watch him get an outro song next week. And then you'll have a sponsor. It'll be the only segment on the entire show that's sponsored. And we'll all go to crap. We didn't get to say hello to Stephanie this week. But here she's talking some. mad smack back there.

And I hear that New York Creek is sweating a little bit. There she is. Hello, Stephanie. Oh, we don't hear her. Look at that hair. Oh, no. Well, we'll get her next week. There she is.

Say hello. Hi, guys. Hi. Can you choke him quickly? There it is. Bang. He's out. Thank you for doing that.

And thank you to all of you for tuning in. Once again, thank you very much to Yuania on J-check. We appreciate. it. Congratulations. Thank you very much to Francis Engano. Thank you very much to Tyron Woodley. All the best to him. Good luck to Roy McDonald on Friday. Thank you very much to Joanne Calderwood. Great to talk to her once again. Thank you very much to Michael Kiesa. Good luck on June 25th. And of course, thank you very much to one Herb Dean for clearing the air and for being transparent. Thank you very much to Henry Sehudo. Get well soon. Hope to see him back sooner rather than later.

and thank you very much to Darren Williams and the good folks over at 4 to 7MMA for stopping by. How cool was that? Back next week, same time and place. Until then, I say pish.