MMA Fighting - The MMA Hour with Ariel Helwani - Episode 409

Episode Date: November 14, 2017

Ariel Helwani speaks to Duane Ludwig (00:31:17), Mike Mazzulli (00:52:42), Jack Swagger (01:15:44) in studio, Quinton Jackson (01:58:02), Cub Swanson (02:30:48), Mackenzie Dern (02:49:40), Michael Bisping (03:08:28), Michael Carter-Williams (03:30:53), Jimmie Rivera (03:51:26), and NewYorkRic for Ric's Picks (04:11:39) and to answer your questions (04:39:17) during The MMA [After] Hour. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Boarding for flight 246 to Toronto is delayed 50 minutes. Ugh, what? Sounds like Ojo time. Play Ojo? Great idea. Feel the fun with all the latest slots in live casino games and with no wagering requirements. What you win is yours to keep groovy. Hey, I won! Feel the fun!

The meeting will begin when passenger Fisher is done celebrating. 19 plus Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Concerned by your gambling or that if someone close, you call 18665330 or visitcomex Ontario.ca. You may have heard of the sex cult nexium and the famous actress who went to prison for her involvement, Alison Mac. But she's never told her side of the story until now. People assume that I'm like this pervert. My name is Natalie Robamed. And in my new podcast, I talked to Allison to try to understand how she went from TV actor to cult member.

How do you feel about having been involved in bringing sexual trauma at other people? I don't even know how to answer that question. Allison after Nexium from CBC's Uncover is available now on Spotify. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. It's the mixed martial arts hour with... The mixed martial arts hour, it is back in your life on this Monday, November 13, 2017. Hello again, everyone. I'm Ariel Hawani back inside our New York City studio.

It is so very great to be here with all of you. Hope you had a lovely weekend. It's a cold and rainy day in New York City, in the Big Apple. So I'm so excited to be inside. I do believe I hear Lenny Hart once again in my ear there. I love hearing Lenny Hart. Maybe that's my computer being on. Yep, that was that.

I apologize. Lenny Hart, good to hear from you as well. It's great to be here because it has been such a wacky, wacky week in the world of MMA. If you think about the last five to six days, really it's symbolic of this entire year coming off what I believe is and was the goal. greatest year in UFC history. Like, like this past week is a microcosm of the last, I don't know, 365 days in the world of mixed martial arts. And what I mean by that is, okay, so 2016,

without a doubt, in my opinion, the greatest year in the history of the UFC. Five paper views, over a million buys, big fights, big time cards, the sale, Connor fights a couple times, Rhonda comes back, all that stuff and more. I mean, it's going to be very hard to top 2016, UFC 200. There were some low moments, but overall, I think it was the best year in the history of the sport. And then you follow that up with 2017, and I think that 2017 compared to 2016,

has been overwhelming, has been disappointing, has been frustrating at times, maybe even a little bit confusing. And so, all right, that's the last two years in MMA. then let's go to the past week November 4th last Saturday, two Saturdays ago MSG, UFC 217

arguably the greatest card in UFC history, arguably the greatest night in UFC history certainly those top three fights we've talked about it now quite a bit second to none, right? I mean you can make a very strong case

well let's just say best card of the year and then you can make a very strong case best card of all time as far as the UFC's concern And then you follow that up the last five or six days with a disappointing, underwhelming, somewhat confusing week in MMA with all kinds of news. I mean, there has been a plethora of news over the past, you know, five, six days. And we have to digest it all. We're going to do our best to do that on this program.

We have a lot of guests to talk to. There's a lot going on, as always. But this past week has been, I don't know, it just kind of reminded me of the year that was, the year that has been. It's just been a strange way to rebound from one of the best nights. Remember last Monday we come on this show. We're so excited. We're on this high.

We're still buzzing, right? Our heads are still spinning from such a great night. All positives. The winners won amazingly. The losers won with grace and class. And then just a strange follow-up week in M.A. So we'll talk about all that and more at the top of the show. After that, we're going to be joined by Dwayne Bang Ludwig, who of course,

head coach for one, T.J. Dilleshaw, the new UFC Bantamway champion. He'll join us to talk about the win, MSG, where TJ goes from here. Does he fight Demetrius? Does he fight Jimmy Rivera? Does he fight Yeroy, so we'll get into all of that with Bang Ludwig. At 145, we'll be joined by Mike Mazzuli, the president of the Association of Boxing Commissions and Combative Sports, also the director of the Mohegan Tribe Department of Athletic

Regulation. I'll get to him in a second. At 205, we're going to be joined in studio by a mystery guest. A mystery guest, who I will not announce until he or she walks into the studio, has major news to share with us. And at 205, we'll be joined by them right here in that spot right over there facing me to talk about it all. I can't wait for that. At 250, we'll be joined by Quinton Rampage Jackson, Quentin Jackson, part of the news cycle last week.

He is back in Bellator, of all places. and he's going to be a part of their heavyweight tournament. And we'll talk about that in a second as well. So Quentin Jackson, back on the program at 250 at 325. We'll be joined by Cub Swanson. He did not get the title shot against Max Holloway. If you have been living under Iraq, you may find that statement to be a little confusing. I'll get into that into a second.

I want to talk to Cub Swanson about it all. And, of course, he returns to action on December 9th against Brian Ortega. A great fight. 340 will be joined by McKenzie Dern. Talk about her future. I'm looking forward to that. 4 o'clock Michael Bisping will be on the program. You may think, oh, Michael Bisping is coming on the show to talk about us lost to GSP.

Well, that is now old news. The new news is he is returning to action in less than two weeks against Kelvin Gasselm in Shanghai. Get into that in a second. 420, Charlotte Hornets point guard Michael Carter Williams will stop by. Former rookie of the year. He's played for the Philadelphia 76ers, has played for the Chicago Bulls, has played for the Milwaukee Bucks. now a member of the Charlotte Hornets, but for our purposes, he is a massive MMA fan, not just like a Connor McGregor fan checks in, you know, once a year. This guy's tweeting about, you know,

Nunes Schifchenko. He's a huge fan. I'm looking forward to talking to him. 440, Jimmy Rivera will stop by. Talk to him about where he goes from here now that Dominic Cruz has pulled out. We'll get into that in a second. Looking forward to talking to Jimmy. Five o'clock Rick's picks, and then we'll answer your questions. Hit us up using the hashtag the MMA hour. So like I said, just an amazing week, all kinds of news every single day. Fascinating stuff. Not all good news. Hey, everybody.

It's New York, Rick. Bring you a word from Casper. Casper is a sleep brand that continues to revolutionize its line of products to create an exceptionally comfortable sleep experience one night at a time. With three mattress models, the original Casper, the wave, and the essential, Casper mattresses are perfectly designed to suit. and cradle your natural geometry. Not to mention, the breathable design helps you sleep cool and regulates your body temperature throughout the night. And it's delivered right to your door

in a small, how do they do that size box with free shipping and returns in the U.S. and Canada. But the best part is that you can be sure of your purchase with Casper's 100-night risk-free sleep-on-it trial. After all, you're going to spend one-third of your life sleeping so you should at least be comfortable. So start sleeping ahead of the curve, with Casper. Get $50 toward any mattress purchase by visiting casper.com slash MMA and using MMA at checkout. That's casper.com slash MMA, offer code MMA for $50 off your first mattress purchase. Terms and conditions apply. We also have a message this week from Hymns, the wellness brand for the modern man. Hymns is a one-stop shop for hair loss, skin care,

sexual and wellness, and more. Hymns makes men's personal trusted, easy, and affordable. Look around during the holidays. Are you thinking, I should have taken better care of myself this year? Do you want fuller hair? Do you want better skin? Do you even want to last longer in bed? So what do you do?

You get Hymns. It's hassle-free. There's a solution to what you need now. Why is Hymns trusted? Hymns offers FDA-approved medical-grade products with personalized recommendations, plus convenient confidential online consultation with a licensed doctor. How is Hymns easy? With Hymns, there's no waiting room.

There's no uncomfortable time with the nurse. There's no pharmacy lines. The products are shipped directly to your door. And Hymns is affordable. Hymns passes the big savings along to you, offering prescriptions and generics for a fraction of the price. That all adds up to sound treatment and prevention backed by medicine and science. Look better, feel better, do better with Hymns.

Get 50% off when you try Hymns for a month. Your trial includes everything you need to keep your hair. And it's half price. It's a full 50% off while supplies last. See the Hymns website for details. Do your future self-a favor and try Hymns today. Go to 4HIMS.com slash M-A. Let me spell that out for you.

That's F-O-R-H-I-M-S dot com slash M-A. ForH-H-H-H-M-M-A. Now back to the show. It started for me on Tuesday. Dana White did this Q&A with Peter Berg, the Hollywood director, you know, Peter Berg, Friday Night Lights, all that stuff. And he mentions that he wants to do Darren Till versus Wonderboy Thompson in England

and that he was moving Till from a February 24th Fight Night Card in Orlando to England. And we presumed Liverpool because I think he mentioned Till's hometown. This was reported by the Los Angeles Times. This created a lot of confusion. People are wondering if that Orlando fight night card on February 24th was being moved to Liverpool, not the case. And then we wondered, okay, what's going on with Darren Till versus Wonderboy Thompson? I checked in with Wonderboy's team. They had not been offered. They are not interested. Wonderboy's father, Ray Thompson, just said, no, we're not taking this fight. And oh, by the way,

we haven't been offered. And oh, by the way, Wonderboy's thumbs are messed up. He has gone to a doctor. He's awaiting the results of his MRI. One doctor, I'm told, from Mr. Thompson, suggested putting in a pin. They are waiting to see what all their options are, but slow your roll on that one. So that was just a kind of weird, a weird story. Because it made it seem like the fight was happening and talked to Thompson's team, talked to Till, and the fight wasn't even offered. then I find out from Holly Holmes agent that the Chris Cyborg versus Holly home fight

as far as UFC 219 December 30th is concerned is quote unquote dead he said he did not this is Lenny Fresquez did not like their offer they're moving on they can revisit it

but as far as December 30 is concerned according to him last week it was dead somewhat depressing UFC doesn't have it's mid-November they announced the Ronda Rousey fight for UFC 207 last year

the year end show in September, it's in November, they still don't have a main event. Now, I hear that they're working on maybe pulling a rabbit out of their hat, their proverbial hat, but right now, it seemed like that was going to be the main event. And, well, according to Holmes agent, the fight was dead. Then we find out that Frankie Edgar suffered an injury in training, an eye injury. He is out of UFC 218, which is just in a couple of weeks in Detroit on December 2nd. And then the UFC started scrambling for replacement.

Now, the interesting thing was it took them like five to six days to even announce that Frankie Edgar was out. The only announced that he was out once they found the replacement. We'll get to the replacement in a second. But that fight, which was, I think, very much looking like one of the best fights of the year, highly anticipated fight not happening. And Frankie's team says that he'll be back in 12 weeks. So that was kind of a bummer. And then at the end of Wednesday, we find out that Dominic Cruz has broken his arm.

and he is out of the December 30th fight against Jimmy Rivera. Bummer. Thursday, we come back on this program and we do a special edition of the MMA hour with GSPN studio. How cool was that? I was so honored. I was so excited to have him here. It was just such a great conversation. I appreciate everyone for sending in such great feedback.

But we do find out that he's somewhat non-committal about his future. That, yes, it says in his contract that he signed that he has to fight Whitaker next, but he did not go out and say, I am fighting Robert Whitaker next. He did not go out and say, I am fighting again. He wouldn't say if he's going to retire, if he's going to go down to 170. It's all very much up in the air. And he can control his own destiny, but it's a bit of a confusing situation. So that was that.

Then later on in the day, we find out that Rampage Jackson has re-signed with Belator somewhat out of the blue. And that's not bad news. That's good news. Okay, so it's good to have some good news. Friday morning, we find out that Bellator is going to do a heavyweight tournament next year. But it's not going to be a one-night tournament. It's going to really spend. span a year, if not more, and it features four non-heavyweights. The four non-heavyweights,

uh, Rampage Jackson, Chale Sunnan, Ryan Bader, King Moe, the four heavyweights, Fader O'Millianco, Frank Meir, Roy Nelson, Matt Matrione. It's going to start in January, probably that January 20th card in Inglewood, but that was some interesting news. Not quite the Strike Force Grand Prix, but they're trying something, of course, they don't have a heavyweight champion. Later on in the day on Friday, we find out that Anderson Silva has been provisionally suspended by the United States anti-doping agency. So this is the second time. He hasn't been officially suspended. We don't know what the substance was. But as a result, he was pulled from UFC Shanghai, which is November 25th, the UFC's first event on mainland China, a very thin card. But at the top, it was Anderson on

Fight Pass against Kelvin, Gaslam in front of a brand new market, a gigantic market, an important market, this was a massive, massive, massive blow to the UFC and not only to the UFC on that particular day, but this is, you know, one of the greatest of all time. People still consider him the goat. And this is now his second potential run in with PED usage. And I mean, that's a big blow for his legacy, especially considering the fact that he's well into his 40s now. Okay. Then we find out, we confirm Saturday morning that Max Holloway is going to fight Jose Aldo for the second time. Just beat him in June to become the featherweight champion. Aldo is tapped as the replacement for Frankie Edgar.

And now that fight is happening on December 2nd. A lot of people wanted to see Cub Swanson. I put out a poll. Swanson was the sentimental favorite, but they're keeping Cub on the December 9th fight card. And the big thing to consider here is that Cub Swanson has one fight left on his contract. So they had to get a new deal done with Cub in order to give him the title shot because they're not giving a title shot to a guy who's about to become a free agent.

And that limited their options. it basically came down to Cub or Jose and Jose seemed to be the top choice. I think that the audience, to degree some of the audience, is maybe a little Jose Aldo out, but I mean, he is the name, he is the greatest featherweight champion of all time. And they were kind of damned if they did, damned if they don't in this particular case,

especially after Edgar pulls out with just a couple weeks. No real great answer here. So in the end, they go with Joseoaldo, the rematch, and it's happening in Detroit on December 2nd. we also find out this was reported by an outlet in Russia, also on Frank Mears podcast that Fadornemlyneko and Frank Meir targeted for the first round of that Belator tournament's other matchups that I'm hearing right now are being discussed. Roy Nelson versus Matt Mitrione 2, Rampage Chale and King Mo Bader, but those aren't 100%

just yet. We'll talk to Rampage about that later on in the program. Okay, so that was interesting. then Saturday night we find out that Michael Bisping is replacing Anderson Silva against Kelvin Gasselm. Michael Bisping, who had just lost his middleweight title, who was given a 30-day suspension by the New York State Athletic Commission, who was just the middleweight champion, is going to fly to China in less than two weeks and fight Kelvin Gassel in the main event of UFC Shanghai November 25th.

It's very rare that a replacement fight creates more buzz and interest than an original fight. And in this case, I think it is accurate to say that, Although is it safe for Bist Bank to do this? Why is he doing it? You know, what are his motives? What's the point? Take some time off. Emotionally, are you all in on this?

Maybe it's just a two-for-one training camp, you know, get two paydays. That's why I really wanted to talk to Mike, and we'll be doing so at 4 p.m. But that one came out of left field. And, oh, by the way, Pitbull, Patricia Pitbull is out of the Tel Aviv card this week. So Belator loses their title fight in their main event. And now the Noad La Had fight is the main event. was a blow to them. We're less than a week away

and they lose their main event. As far as the action is concerned, UFC Norfolk was a great card. A ton went on there. Dustin Porreier defeating Anthony Pettis, Petis injuring his ribs. Big win for him. Matt Brown with the elbow from hell,

the hellbo, if you will. I mean, just vicious stuff. We miss it initially because of a, I don't know, a faulty switcher, someone in the truck. Who knows? The bottom line is, and the only thing that the fans care about

is that we missed it. Junior Albini fights in a diaper. Hafeel Sun Tsoll gets the first K-O of his career. Clay Guida gets the first T-K-O in, what, nine years for him? And then rallies the crowd to get him a new contract. That was a very entertaining night in

Norfolk. Also, Combatte America's head of one-night tournament Belator on Friday in Dublin as well. So that's all the stuff that happened since we last spoke last Monday. Oh, and I forgot one. Speaking of Belator in Dublin, something weird happened Belator on Friday at Belator in Dublin,

Belator 187, the three arena. So that card was via tape delay. It aired in America via tape delay. So Thursday, excuse me, Friday afternoon, you know, I'm on the computer and I start to see some reports trickling in via Twitter that Connor McGregor has, you know Connor McGregor, right? The UFC

Lightway champion. That man over there, the Champ Champ who won the lightweight title, just 366 days ago at Madison Square Garden has created some kind of a brouhaha, if you will, at the Bellator event. And there's a lot to digest here with this story.

And so the best way I want to digest it all and break it down is actually via the help of video footage. So, courtesy of our friends over at Bellator, let's break this all down. Let's roll the tape over here. We've got the footage. This is the conclusion of the first round

of the John Redmond versus Charlie Ward fight, Belator 187 main card fight in Dublin. Charlie Ward, of course, one of Connor McGregor's best friends. There you see them right on the screen. Of course, there you see referee, Mark Goddard, who was on the show just a couple of weeks ago. All right, let's roll the tape.

Here's the conclusion. As you can see, nine seconds left in the round. Charlie Ward with the tattoos, Big left, Redmond down. And let's stop the tape right there. Mark Goddard jumps in And if you notice, usually TKO finish,

KO finish, the referee steps in and does this. You do not see Mark Godder do that, and that is an important thing to note. Okay, roll the tape. There's Charlie Ward, and there's Connor McGregor. Flying Guard jumps at him. Now pause it.

Initially, I thought that Charlie Ward lost the fight, and Connor was upset because it just all happened quickly. But no, Connor is so happy for his friend and he will never, ever be accused of not being loyal. We know this. We've seen it with Arden. We've seen him with some of his other teammates. He is there front and center

rooting them on with great passion and is almost like living and dying with their every move. So you see him run into the cage and tackle Charlie Ward out of happiness. Shear happiness. He is excited. He jumps in right away.

Okay, so now roll the tape. There he is. He's got the hoodie on. They're celebrating. Now, Now, pause it right there. Mark Goddard puts up his arms and goes, wait, what's going on here? And he shoves. He gives a little tap on the chest, a little shove, if you will. I think that's a fair way to describe it. He shoves Connor McGregor.

Now, initially you're like, wait a second, he's just trying to control the situation. Now, roll the tape here. Mark Goddard, referee now goes over to check on John Redmond. Boom. Pause. Connor runs behind him. Pause, pause, pause, pause, pause, pause. and gives Mark Goddard a bit of a shove.

Now, initially you're like, why is he upset? His guy won. What we've come to find out is, and I've asked Mark Goddard to come on the show, but he politely declined. But I also asked him to clarify this, and I do not hear back from him.

Apparently, based on several accounts, what was said was Mark Goddard was telling Connor that the fight wasn't over. The round was over, but the fight wasn't over. And so he wanted to go check on the situation and see if the fight should, in fact, be over. and that's what upset Mr. Connor McGregor.

Now, Conor gets so upset, and remember there's a history there, Arnhobov against Andre Feeley in Poland, Connor's going around the cage, shouting instructions, and Mark Goddard is scolding him because you can't do that, you're not a licensed cornerman. Oh, by the way, in this situation on Friday, Connor McGregor not a licensed cornerman,

so he did not have jurisdiction to go into the cage, especially that soon. And so Connor's upset because he's like, Wait a second. Now you're calling off the fight. Those who know the history between these two several years ago when Connor was fighting for the Cage Warrior's belt, he fought a guy named Dave Hill, Mark Goddard's student. Mark Goddard was in his corner. Apparently there was some bad blood that stems all the way back then. But, I mean, if you follow John Kavanaugh on Twitter, if you know the history there, there seems to,

I mean, even Mark Goddard does seminars at SBG, didn't think it was that bad. Connor clearly taking exception to the fact here that Goddard is saying the fight may not, in fact, be over. And that's what pissed him off. Now, roll the tape. you see in this fracas, John Redmond actually got bumped and actually fell over. Now, pause it again. So John Redmond, who had just been knocked out is still on his knees, gets bumped. That's not a good situation.

This is a guy who had just been knocked out, who was probably concussed. This is a bad scene. Now, you see Connor over there talking to Mark Goddard. He is pointing at him. He is very upset. He's yelling at him. Now, we don't know exactly what is being said. Even the announcers are confused.

They think that Connor is celebrating. Then they think that he's mad about the stoppage. it's all very confusing. You can roll the tape. They're going back and forth. And they're trying to separate it, but no one's really doing a great, like Connor's just walking around.

No one's doing a great job as far as Bellator is concerned, as far as security is concerned, of actually getting the man out of the cage. He goes over to Andy Ryan over there. You see Andy Ryan, top right, who's John Redmond's head coach, one of the most respected coaches in Ireland. But no one's actually ushering him out.

He kind of just ushers himself out, which, I mean, they have to do a better job from a security standpoint of stopping things like this because again he's not a licensed cornerman of course he's being showered with praise here he is not someone who should be allowed

to go into the cage especially that soon afterwards family friends could come in once things are cleared once the result is red we've seen this time and again but not that soon not literally a second after the fight is over and as we've come to find out

maybe not even over now you see here Connor comes back into the cage who's controlling this situation Andy Ryan did an interview with Peter Carroll on our site and I think he was 100% spot on who's controlling the situation from a security standpoint. Connor has his own security.

The arena has security. Beltor has security. So now you see Connor just kind of roaming. You know, like obviously he's not a fan. Obviously he's not some Joe Schmoe, but someone needs to take, you know, take some control here and you can pause right now. All right, so that's the end of the clip

from the broadcast perspective. Someone needs to take control of the situation. So this is, you know, this is what we saw in the broadcast. It is indefensible. You can't run into the cage that soon. You have to wait and see what the referee's decision here. You have to wait and see what's going on, especially when there's a man who had just been knocked out.

I understand that Connor was very excited. His friend had just won when 0 and 2 in the UFC. I understand that he wanted to support him, that he was living and dying with every punch, that he's very supportive, that he's very loyal. I get that. But you can't just jump into the cage that soon. And people say, well, what's the difference

when he jumped to the cage when Arden wanted to fight? Well, first of all, a decision different. there had not been, I mean, the fight wasn't even called off. Look, there's no signal that the fight was called off. There's not a man who's on the ground who's potentially concussed, who is just dropped. That is not the time to run in. You can wait, you know, jump around, go crazy, but that's not the time to run in. Then we find out via TMZ Sports, let's roll this footage.

We get more footage of the situation. After he walked away, Connor came back, and you see him now running around, celebrating, super happy. clapping his hands. He jumps onto the apron. You'll see this in a second. Jumps on top of the cage. Straddles the cage. And there's a member of the Beltor FightOps team

named Mike Johnson who tries to push him literally off the cage. And then Connor apparently, based on this footage from TMZ, either attempts to slap him or actually slaps Mike Johnson. Now we have not heard from Mike Johnson. Beltor put out a statement. Mike Missouli, who will be on the program. And now you're seeing Charlie Ward and Connor celebrate.

Mike Missouli, who will be on the program. I told you he's the president. the ABC headman over you know at Mohegan he was the lead regulator for this event when Beltaur does overseas events much like when Mark Ratner is in charge for the UFC overseas

Mike Mozuli is in charge he put out a statement but I wanted to talk to him about what he saw was the fight in fact over was it called off where do they go from here will he actually try to punish Connor can Connor be punished because he is not licensed to fight, you know, he wasn't, he wasn't licensed to be a cornerman there, but where, like, he's not licensed to fight at Mohegan. He's not licensed to fight in Dublin right now. These are things that happen, you know, once a year. So what kind of jurisdiction does he actually have to punish him? He could maybe suggest that Nevada punishes him. We don't even know when Conner's going to fight again. That's, you know, an obvious point that we can't just, you know, overlook. But that was just a bizarre situation. And of course, it got a ton of press. Of course, Belator jumped on it. They put the, this clip out right away.

I'm curious to see what the ratings will be. We'll never know if it boosted the ratings, but it's a tape delay show. They were able to push it out everywhere. Sports Center is talking about it, tweeting about it. All the outlets are tweeting about it. And in a city where Connor is obviously the face of sport, you can make a case that Connor is one of the top 10 most recognizable faces in all of

sport, certainly the face of MMA, certainly the most high-profile fighter in the history of our sport, the most successful fighter. You know, the most popular fighter, we don't need to go over the accolades. You just wish in a situation like this he just would have waited. Just wait a minute. Just wait till the fight is officially called off. Make sure it's all clear.

And then go celebrate with your guy. But it's very clear that what happened was Mark Goddard was upset that he had not, in fact, called off the fight yet. Conner then gets upset. What do you mean the fight's not called off? The guy was just dropped. There's touching. There's shoving of a referee. which is obviously something you never want to see.

You can't have that happen. Especially, you know, with Connor McGregor, he's the most powerful man in the sport. If he gets away with it, other people are going to try to get away with it. And in the end, he may very well get away with it. I don't know what the punishment is here. I don't know if he will receive a punishment

because what can they actually, you know, is Nevada going to say no thanks to a counterfeit? There's no way. Can he get a fine? Can he get a six-month suspension? What does that all mean? You just wish that he would have waited so that this kind of situation doesn't happen.

It doesn't boil over. There isn't a fracas. You also wish that there's better security. I agree with Andy Ryan 100%, that they stop him from trying to get in there. And maybe they wanted something like this to happen. Maybe they wanted that kind of pub. Maybe they wanted this moment.

And I really feel for John Redmond. I mean, the guy was just knocked down. He gets pushed over. You don't deserve that. You don't have to witness all of that. You don't have to be in the middle of all that after you lost. And I know Charlie Ward is a friend and people said like, yeah, you know, it took away from his moment. I have a feeling he doesn't mind all that much. He's probably just really happy that he want to fight.

But overall, just an unfortunate situation. And especially when it has to do with, you know, the face of our sport. You don't want to see an official ever get pushed. Even if there's a misunderstanding, even if there's an argument. You just don't want to see that happen. And so I'm really looking forward to talking to Mike Missouli at 145 and around 20 minutes, trying to clear the air here, trying to see what could happen, what would happen, how we avoid these situations. Apparently Connor tweeted out some kind of response, but then shortly thereafter deleted it. So I'm not sure how real it is. reached out to his team to try to have them on the show. I know that's a long shot. Never got a response. I got a response that they would try, but never got a response if it was yes or no. And so, you know, I saw a lot of people say, oh, Ariel, I know you're a big Connor supporter. I mean,

I cover the sport. Of course, I'm a great admirer. Of course, he's been very good. but to me throughout my career and I want to see him have a very long and successful career in the sport but I also think that no one is bigger than the sport and I also think that there are rules in place for a reason and especially when we're talking about people

being knocked out on the ground you just don't want to see meleys like this because quite frankly it could have gone worse Andy Ryan saying to Peter Carroll that he actually had to stop fans from jumping into the cage and what could have happened then so let's just all take a breath

wait for the referee to make his decision, wait for the official decision, and then celebrate. Like we've seen time and again in this sport. We saw Matt Brown's kids come into the cage. An unlicensed person coming into the cage is not the big deal, but there's a time and a place. You can't just jump in,

especially when the fight hasn't been waved off. So yeah, that was a bizarre one. And in a way, kind of, as I said, just sort of symbolically summed up a bizarre year and a bizarre follow-up to what was one of the best nights in the history of our sport.

All right. That's that for now. Let's take a pause on that discussion. We'll talk to Mike Mazzuli. I'm sure you want to talk about it later in the program. We can get into that as well.

But when you talk about one of the best nights in the history of our sport November 4th, that was just, you know, what, over seven days ago, nine days ago, to be exact,

one of the great moments, T.J. Dillishaw, regaining the Bantamway title. He finishes Cody Garbrandt after a tough first round, comes back and finishes him in the second round, and at least for now that feud is over, but something tells me they'll be meeting sometime in the future.

Well, of course, the man who was in his corner, the man who has been by his side throughout all his title runs, who made him into the fighter that he is today, is the great Dwayne Bang Ludwig, and he joins us on the phone right now. Dwayne, how are you? Doing good, sir. Thanks for having me on. I was a fan of you and your show.

Oh, thank you very much. much, Duane, and great to have you on and congratulations. By the way, before we get into everything, I'm just curious, because you've been around the sport for so long and you're in corners. Did you see that, that Connor footage from Belator? And if so, how do you feel about it? As someone who's been there when fighters have won and lost, do you think

that he's, you know, crossed the line? Do you think that, you know, he should not be doing that sort of, do you have a take on that? You're there. You know more about this stuff than us. If you saw it, what do you think about it at all? I did see what Connor did at the Belator show, and I do not agree with

that I think someone or anybody, we all, anybody can run and jump into the cage, but we all choose to lead by example and be good people, follow the rules. And when some people think that they're bigger than the sport or bigger than anybody else, and that becomes a problem, I think Connor and we all need to just lead by example and make sure they're following the rules because, especially Connor, you know, look how big he is, he should be, again, leading by example. and wasn't really wasn't surprised, but I was surprised. So I don't think it should happen, obviously,

and a lot of people could have got hurt off that because, you know, like you said earlier, some of the fans are trying to go in also and security had to step it up and make sure that wasn't happening, but you just can't do that. Yeah. Yeah, an unfortunate situation,

especially considering just how, you know, popular he is, especially in Dublin. So we'll see what happens there. Now let's talk about your night, just a little over a week ago in New York City. And I asked TJ this question last week on the program, and I'm wondering if you feel the same way. Did you, considering the history there,

and you have a history with Team Alpha male, very well documented, did you feel vindicated? How would you describe your emotions on Saturday after seeing what happened? Did you, like, was this a little more personal for you? And did you feel like, okay, this is vindication for everything that has happened over the past year and a half? Well, I tried to look at it from a broader perspective and just realize that it was an excellent challenge.

because they really knew how TJ and I trained. They understand our system. Our system of three years ago, we're always progressing and improving. And it was just good to get another win and not really make it personal, but just keep it business. And that's the best way that we both operate.

And again, to like when I took the car situation and in this situation, I really could have, I chose to take the higher on all this, not really get into a battle about anything and just make sure that we're focusing on the task of hand. and that's improving in our martial arts skill set

so that we can become the best that we can and not jump on Twitter or any social media handles and dick are back and forth with anybody but to again focus on the task of hand and improve you know I think that saying is true that winners focus on winning

and it proved to be the case all two champions that their belts take away because I think I can't say I'll say this I'll say for a fact that when PJ and I are training we focus on ourselves We mind our business.

We do and we need you to improve. It wasn't any special vindication other than CET, they get his title back. But with all the drama behind the scenes and what led up to the outside of the typical, you know, the typical situation of a fight, just like to steer clear of it, you know, be by example and be a good person and just to look past it

because we have a lot of people looking at us right now and how are we reacting to that? How do we react when someone gets in our face and challenges to a fight and just big crews and brings up all this, it seemed to me seriously like I was back in high school. That's what it felt like.

So it was good for me to, I guess, experience that again and show the people that were watching how to handle that situation. So I am grateful for the way it went down. Are you happy it's over? I'm happy it's over, that's for sure.

I'm looking forward to testing our skill set against Demetius Johnson and Matt Heum. That's what I'm looking forward to. I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, fan nerd. So I'd love to just dissect things, you know, figure out the riddle, figure out the puzzle, and come to an answer or solution and make sure that we are progressing and getting better. And that's going to be an excellent challenge and test is to fight, you know, against Matt Heum and

Demetius Johnson once again, but with TJ, obviously. So this is something I'm looking very forward to. I know I'm jumping topics here, sorry. I'm looking forward to that situation. Much more so than any bickering. we'll get to DJ in a second but I'm just curious was it difficult for you I mean this got personal and a lot of accusations

were thrown out was it difficult for you to bite your tongue because I did notice you know for the most part you kind of stayed out of it and it really just became TJ versus Cody

there were times your name was brought up but I mean you could have been a much bigger part of the whole situation and I noticed that you were very much you know in the distance and probably for the best as far as you know drama is concerned I know you were not interested in that

was it difficult though considering you knew all these guys to bite your tongue as much as you did? Duane, are you still there? Yeah, I'm here. Sorry, sir. Okay, did you hear my question? Gotcha. Sorry. No, one more time, please. I was just wondering if it was difficult for you

to bite your tongue as much as you did because it did seem to me, as you just mentioned, that you try not to get involved and you weren't as much involved as I maybe would have predicted because you were such a big part of the team. Did you feel at times, man, I want to say something, I want to respond, but I'm not going to? How hard was that?

you know, it was a little hard when, like, when things came up that I didn't think were, went down the way that I seen them go down. I think we had different perspectives on the same situation. So it was hard for me to not say something in those things because it just wasn't the way I, I seen them. So I thought, it was hard for me. Short answer, yes, sir, it was. But, again, it was a good test of character and myself and for TJ.

So we all learned and grew from it. So it was nice. What were you thinking in the first round? Me personally. So I have, for me, I'm all in. I don't really have a reserve. If I focus on something, I figure out the best way to get it done. And whatever the job is, I used to work for Kmart.

And I used to push buggies into the store. I used to have that lot clear in 10 minutes. It was a record. I used to smash it. And it's just how I am. When I have a job at a duty, I'll do it to the best of my ability. Now, when I'm working for someone that's falling short

and what they offered, that becomes very annoying. So it's good to be back in Colorado and focusing on myself and that to have some of that stuff rehatch in different perspective. It was annoying. It was hard for me to buy my tongue, but I'm glad it's over. And just curious, where does the future stand between you and T.J.? Because he's no longer in Colorado, right? He is in California and he is building his own team there.

I'm not quite sure what direction it's going he does have a house here his wife's here right now he had a nice custom house built on a lake out here the training for him and he's happier

the spiritually in California so it's like man there's more training partners there for him his weight class I feel he and I work together the best

I feel I'm best as a trainer and a martial arts instructor when I work with him I feel his potential gets pulled out to the fullest when we're working together. So I will continue to go.

And if he does choose to go back to California, I will make time to go back and forth and help him out and as he will come back to Fort Colorado as well. Which that was the original plan. Like I never, you know, told anybody to leave anywhere and to come here. You know, I was like, you know, come here, train back and forth. I'll help go back and forth. But there was a line drawn in the sand and, you know,

he was kicked off the team in California. So it's like he had to come here. So it was just how all this is paying out. It was just strange. But it's working out for the better. And to answer a question, he is building a fight team out there in California. And we'll continue to work together.

I'll always make time for T.J., he knows that. And I always make time for a lot of people, you know, like even like after the fight with T.J., you know, I had a heart-to-hard with Danica Steele. It was really emotional for me. But I generally love him careful those guys. You know, we're a family and a team knows that to have this drama. and, you know, I was fucking, I was crying and shit.

I was like, man, I love you guys. If you didn't, thank you, please let me know. I'm sorry there has to be drama. And it just goes back to my personality next time. I'm in, I'm all in. So it's hard for me not to not get, you know, emotionally wrapped up. And to have this all happen. It was a good touch with my character.

So I jumped around a little bit, sorry, but I want to touch base with some things that. I just want to say, I still love those guys. It's sorry that there's drama and hopefully we can move on, which we move on. So hopefully they can as well. when you say we I'm assuming you mean you and T.J. Did you have a chance to talk to any other members of the team afterwards

to clear the air to bury the hatchet? No, not really. You're just standing in Castile and I. He was one of the closer guys. We were one of the closer. That was pretty close to him. So I want to make sure that he had to shared where my heart was. And I talked to Buck was actually in Vegas

and told him the same thing. So I guess those two. But that was a couple months ago. and, you know, things have, things have, since they've happened more since then, so it's like, come on. I was a bit disappointed to hear that Derek Corner was talking crap to TJ

after TG got dropped, you know, they're telling him, we got your fucking number and it's yelling at him. I think that's crossing the lines a little bit, you know, to talk crap to the fighter once he gets dropped. They're top of the fighter anyway. Just focus on coaching your fighter. I mean, they were so focused on us, it was crazy. Even during the fight, they're focused on us.

It's nuts. I thought some of the things were kind of crossed the line, but, you know, people take different paths to, you know, how they handle things. So just how, I just didn't expect it. How concerned were you at the end of the first round, Dwayne? And T.J. said last week that he was rocked. It was clearly he was wobbly. Yeah. Were you very concerned that he was not going to be able to regroup in the second round? No, no. I knew he was. I know where T. I know. I mean, I, this is one thing with T.

We have a special connection. I'm going to think to ask him to throw a combo or to add something on. He's already doing it. I mean, boss and I have this. It just, you know, synchronous here is like intangible fiber that we both are on the same wavelengths. So short answer, I seem to get dropped and I seen him back to his feet and have the head motion right away. So I knew he was good. He did stumble a little bit, but that was probably because obviously he was rocked,

but because he was leaning backwards also. So when he came back and sat down, you know, he looked direct into each other's eyes. I knew he was all right. I just want to slow him down and get him clear, you know, precise instruction. And I was just to change up a little bit and cut down the setups and just black some kicks and make sure that we're leaving the dance and it worked out. He's not just him like, you tell him to do anything and he don't do it. He's just, he's literally a modern day ninja.

Was this victory more gratifying to you than the original win, the original title went over Henan and Borough because of how personal this story was with the rest of the guys at Team Alpha Male? You know, it was very gratifying for different reasons. You know, the brown fight had a lot, a much different backstory to it. So it was gratifying for different reasons. But the main thing was just, I don't feel we should have lost the title anyway, and then to have to fight through two more opponents and wait basically two years to reclaim the belt

was just not something that I've seen that we had to do because, I mean, I don't think we lost anyway, but it was a very close-split. and loss, so we shouldn't, it's just, I thought an immediate rematch was going to happen. It didn't. We had to fight. People that were higher rank than with the champion was fighting. It was just a weird scenario. So the Alphenol stuff aside, like, that wasn't too big a video. It just seemed like we had a rough road to get back to what we needed to do, but we did exactly that, you know, kept our heads down and continue to improve and improve and get better and enjoy the journey. But it was, it was a longer road than expected.

So clearly you're in favor of T.J. challenging Demetrius Johnson. Are you in favor of him going down to, going down to 125 as well? Yes, because of his strength conditioning coach, Dan Pelovita. We were in route to fight Demetius at one point. And the direction he was taking with the strength condition coach, TJ was looking phenomenal on the midst and sparring and training. And he just, he looked good. And, you know, his spirits were good.

So obviously we didn't make 1-25 and fight and compete, but when we were in route of that, it's nothing really changed. He's not a big 35er, so he can make 25 and he's not going to be easy, but he's the most dedicated person that I've ever seen. He really is.

How confident are you that this fight is actually going to happen this time? What can you tell us? I think it needs to happen. I mean, he's playing the top guys. I mean, you know, Jesse, this works out because

Ben Bidt is out right now. You know, he's still, you know, having to wait a couple months with his knee surgery. So it worked out time-wise. So in my eyes, I would like to see him, TJ, drop down, Fidemacher, take his belt, and then go back up to 35. And then, you know, I'm not quite sure where Benavita is at, but, you know, hopefully he gets back to the minute as well and the bite to Matures also later down the road.

Wow. And how soon do you want to see this happen? Like, do you think that T.J. needs a long time to get to $1.25? No, he can make that happen. If the fight was December, he could make that happen. Okay. Wow. He's having, you know, his wife's having a baby in December.

So it's going to get for him to sit back and relax a little bit during the family and make sure he's being smart about this. So I don't exactly know if he's the timeline is, but I guess maybe April or something next year would probably be good. Do you, as a great MMA mind, do you see, I mean, DJ has been virtually, I mean, unbeatable, right? At 125, he doesn't lose rounds. You know, he's that dominant at 124.

in a 125. Yes. Do you see holes in his game? When you watch him, you know, last fight against Ray Borg? I mean, there are some areas

that we could capitalize on that's for sure, but I'm not going to say that he's weak in any one area because he's really not. He's great everywhere, man. This is a tough challenge, but T.J.

T.J. could beat him. And this is, I just think he's on another level. Like T.J.'s on another level. They're both on another level compared to the people that are in their weight class. He just really is. I mean,

that's because, you know, Benavetus is out right now. Benavides is right at that level as well. So it just works out. And, I mean, TJ and DJ, I mean, that's the fight to make happen. I think the fans hopefully really get behind that

and Dana and the UFC make it happen because that is going to be a great mixed martial fight. I mean, that really is. It's going to be great. By the way, were you at the gym during this much talked about Chris Holdsworth, T.J. Dilshod'shaw training session? Did you see

what, you know, is, is, is, is, that was under one of my sparring sessions in this, but you got to remember around the scratch, remember, but I got to point this out is, that gym, we'd have 40 plus people on that map. All, not just that man, all over, we'd have to have two groups in the ring,

a couple by the bags, and I'm, there's a, it's like a shape of a seven, so we have to have two groups on one area, two groups in the room, and then everyone else on the big mat. So, you know, I didn't actually see anything. I did not see TJ knee him in the head on the ground. I did not see that.

I mean, there's been many guys that I'm trying to walk and pay mine to, but that specific exchange, if it did happen, I did not see it. Do you suspect at some point T.J. will meet Cody once again? Yeah, I see that because, I mean, Cody, that kid, and he got dropped right away. As soon as T. Day would then punch him the second time when the guy stopped, he was up right away. There's no quitting that kid.

He is definitely a tough character, man. He cannot look past him at all. He is super fast. He surprised me. I was going, man, we're in for a fight after that first round, so I knew we had to change things up. I do see him in the future, for sure, without a doubt. It could be next year.

We'll see how much BEOC likes him and how much the fans want to push him to see him rematch. But he didn't have to earn his way up, you know. I mean, he got stopped in the second round. I think he needs to make a couple fights and work his way back up just like T.J. did. I never fast, sorry, I get excited about this. slow down. Do you ever think about your decision to leave Sacramento? Do you ever have any regrets or are you fully happy now back home in Colorado doing your

thing? I'm fully happy back home. Yeah, I'm fully happy back home. It's just Colorado's my home. I've known since I was a kid. I was in a hamlet's academy here. There's way less traveling. You know, it just goes back to when I do something, I do 100% and now I'm just glad I'm doing 100% effort into my business rather than somebody else's business.

You know, when you sit down and you talk to somebody about their business and they refer to it as their business and their team. It just kind of makes you think a little bit like you're just employees. So it's like, you know, there was a couple bumps in the road. Three months into that job, three months in, I had to sit it way down. Like, look, man, these aren't going to where they're going. I'm going to move out to Colorado. I mean, this hurts me because I love you guys, but these things don't change.

I'm going to have to move back to Colorado. And, you know, they stepped up and they made it happen. But it was just like, until the get-go, there were just a little bumps in the road. And I just, I have a hard time working with somebody. they're not pulling their weight. So I'm just, personality-wise, and it's glad

that I'm running my own business in Colorado and things are even and fair, I guess. Do you have any interest in seeing T.J. fight your eye in favor?

Yeah. I think that would be, that would be, and not be disrespectful. I don't want, not trying to be an asshole in any way, but that would be a pretty easy fight for T.J. That would be.

Would you like to see it? Yeah, I would. Sorry. I would like to see that fight. I think that's a good, you know, payday money fight for TJ. So let's make it happen. Why do you think it'll be easy? Because I, well, I don't think I just, I know it won't. Anything can happen in a fight, but because I used to coach both of them and I used to watch the spar many, many rounds. So I have memories of which direction the sparring rounds would go. And one guy, as you can see, well, let me ask you this, Ariel. Has TJ improved each and every fight that you've seen? him in. I mean, certainly since the brawif, I mean, since right before the brow fight until now, yes, 100%. Since working with you. Thank you.

Let's just put it that way. Well, I appreciate that. It's not solely me, but I am how I helped a little bit. Yeah. But he doesn't improve, and Faber doesn't improve. Like, she had a very hard time picking up my system. He was just, he just sat in his ways, you know, and that's good because it's been successful. But the sport has evolved, and he hasn't, so it would be in my eyes.

a pretty easy fight for TJ and I would like to see it just because they both make some money out so they'd be good for the sport and in every direction it would be good I'm not looking forward to dealing with drama again they seem to love drama I'd really like to stay away from that

if it does happen just let it be a regular fight where we train and we do our interviews and we go and fight you know but we'll see what direction it takes but that aside I still I think the DeMache's John's fight has to happen and then we'll go you think the favorite fight does happen though

they can you know I think it does yeah because the new owners of the USC you know I don't know I can say obviously but they haven't been giving there

it's an entertainment industry isn't it you know the main owner they own an entertainment company or the entertainment industry of something so they want entertaining fights not necessarily the guy who's directly you know number one title contender

that doesn't really matter anymore it's who's in the house sell more pay-privus and more tickets So I think that fight can be great for that reason. Congratulations on the win. Very happy for you guys. Well deserved. And looking forward to seeing that fight against Demetris.

I'd love to see it as well. Looking forward to seeing if you can figure out his puzzle. Ariel, thank you, sir. I appreciate my friend. As always, I'm a fan of you and your show like I said in the beginning. And thanks for having me on. Yeah, we'll talk to you soon. Thank you, Dway.

Yes, sir. Thank you. All right, there he is. Dwayne Bang Ludwig head coach for the new UFC Bantamway champion, T.J. Dillshaw. All right, let's move along. As I teased at the top of the show, we talked extensively about what happened in Dublin on Friday, Beltaire 187 involving Connor McGregor.

Well, as I said, Mike Mazzuli was in attendance. He was the lead regulator there for the Belator event. He is also the president of the Association of Boxing Commissions and Combative Sports, also the director of the Mohegan Tribe Department of Athletic Regulation, one of the most respected regulators in the sport of mixed martial arts. And he is kind enough to be joining us on the phone right now from Tel Aviv, Israel, the Holy Land,

site of Belator 188. He is there, and he is joining us via the phone. How exciting is this? I do believe our first guest to be joining us from Yerushalime, Israel, Tel Aviv, to be exact. Mike, are you there? I am. Good evening over here, I guess I'd have to say. Yes, this is amazing.

I really appreciate you joining us, and very much looking forward to hearing your insight. So before we get into Friday night, we take, maybe sometimes I, take for granted, you know, just kind of knowing these things up the top of my head. But for the casual fan who may be listening right now, could you explain your position with Bellator when you're at these international events? As I said, president of the ABC, also, you know, the head of the Mohican Tribe Department of Athletic Regulation. But what are you doing when you're at a Bellator event internationally? What is your role? Well, it's quite interesting.

Actually, over the years, I've also regulated a lot of shows within tribal land and then in the United States. basically what it is is whenever there's an event overseas or on tribal land that does not have a commission, they ask me to come out and assist. Of course, at the end of the day, it's always about safety of the fighter and make sure it's fair. So I've been doing this for Bellator before Viacom owned it. I was doing it for many, many years. So it's just a continuation of regulating for Bellator as well as Tribal Land. Like I said, I go all over the U.S. to help tribes form their commissions

and also regulate. So I've been doing it for, oh, geez, I've been in the business for 21 years. You know, we started back in 2001 with MMA. And a lot of people aren't familiar with it, but MMA was first licensed in Nevada, Mark Rattner, who I learned a lot from, in New Jersey, and at Mohegan. So the Mohegan Athletic Department. So I was one of the individuals I actually sat in a room and helped write the unified rules. So I'm getting old.

Been this in a while. Where were you on Friday night when Charlie Ward was fighting John Redmond? I was regulating the event right there in Dublin, Ireland. So you were Cajside? You're sitting Cajside? Absolutely. Actually, when I oversee events overseas for Bellator or any other promotion that asks me, I'm the one that hires the officials. I hired Mark Goddard, Brian Minor, and all the officials that are working that night.

I do that myself. What are you thinking when you see Conor McGregor jump over the cage and run into the cage and celebrate with his friend Charlie Roard initially? What are you thinking when you're seeing all this unfold? Well, first and foremost, that round was an amazing, amazing round. You know, the bell and Mr. Goddard breaks the fighters up and all of a sudden Mr. McGregor takes it upon himself to jump into the cage. First and foremost, safety is the most important for the fighters that are down. Mr. Redmond was knocked. I don't want to say he was unconscious, but he was knocked.

He was hit quite heavy. He was sitting there. The first thing I wanted to do is inspect him and get Mr. McGregor and his crew out of the cage. So that's what we did. So my understanding is that Mark Goddard never actually called off the fight. Perhaps Connor jumped in maybe prematurely or thought that the fight had been called off or maybe the round. I know there were just seconds left. Is that your understanding as well?

Because then it seemed like Mark was telling Connor that, hey, the fight is not off. I didn't see him, you know, wave off the action. And that upset Connor because he thought, look, the guy's down. Was your understanding, or is your understanding that Mark never actually called off the fight in that moment just, you know, seconds before Connor jumped into the cage? Well, I have to tell you, to me, that's irrelevant.

The relevant thing is Mr. McGregor took it upon himself to jump in the cage. It adversely affected the outcome of the fight. Mr. Redmond was injured. He actually made it difficult for the doctors to get in there and actually administer some medical attention. So, you know, at that point, I wanted to make sure Mr. Redmond was safe and I wanted to clear the cage and then we would address what was occurring with the time. Right.

Well, that's why I think it's actually very relevant because if the fight wasn't called off yet, I mean, you can say that he's jumping into the cage in the middle of the action. That's why I think knowing whether or not Goddor was calling off the fight. You know what I mean? Well, my opinion, it doesn't matter. You don't jump in the cage at any time at any fight. Fair, fair, fair. That's my...

And that's where I'm going with it. The bottom line was the fight was stopped at 459 of the first round, and Mr. McGregor took it upon himself to jump in the cage, which is completely unacceptable, which is dangerous. Sure. I wouldn't expect anybody to do that. But was the fight stopped at 459 because, Connor jumped into the cage or because Mark Goddard said so?

The fight was stopped at 459 because the the fighters were separated and the fight was over at 459. The bell did not ring. Okay. And so Connor is in the cage. Are you comfortable with the way he was taken out? I mean, there was a moment there where it appears as though

Goddard is telling him to leave, puts his hands on his chest, and then Connor goes up to him and shoves him. I mean, this is all happening. First of all, I'm never comfortable when somebody takes it upon themselves to act like a five-year-old and jump in the cage. The bottom line is he was unprofessional, disrespectful, and it was not acceptable in my eyes in any situation. I don't care if it's anybody else jumping in the cage. We don't do that as a professional. So therefore, was I uncomfortable with it?

I absolutely was. Was I uncomfortable with Mr. McGregor? and they're running around, absolutely. Connor was not a licensed cornerman, correct? That's correct. He was not. He was just a fan. Okay, so what can you do

in this situation? What are you planning on doing? You've had a couple of days to digest it, to look at it, I'm sure you've seen the footage plenty of times. Will he be punished for this? Can he be punished? Well, the first thing I did was I did explain to everybody that contacted me that I needed 24 hours for

a statement. And I stated that As you know, as everyone else knows, that Mr. McGregor is not bigger than MMA. We all know that Mr. McGregor may not be around in five years, but MMA will still be here. I think that's very important to understand that, you know, fighter safety is the most important thing in the world. Because without fighter safety, this sport would not proceed to the next level like it always has. After the event, I did reach out and actually, let me rephrase that. I had some executives from UFC contact me within two hours after what occurred. and they basically said to me that it's completely unacceptable in their eyes and that they will be doing something.

They did inform me that he was set to be on the December 30th card and he will not be on it. So I do commend UFC to some extent for doing that. Now, on the other hand, I will be looking at it. I will be speaking to my attorneys upon returning to the United States to see if I have any action. I did contact the members of the ABC that does have been licensed and I didn't inform them on what occurred. Now, I don't know what they're going to do. It's not, you know, we're autonomous. Each commission is autonomous within the ABC, but we do share medicals and the safety aspect,

as well as the rules and regulations. So we will see what's going to happen with Mr. McGregor concerning myself. But, you know, like I said, the UFC was very, very adamant about it's unacceptable. And again, they stress the safety aspect. You know, I go back to 1996 and meet Mr. Ratner, who's taught me almost, everything I knew at that point in 1996 in boxing. So Mark and I have a great relationship. And like I said, they're not happy at all with them, which makes me feel good, but I also

want to know what they're going to do about it. So they specifically said he was going to be on this December 30th card. And as a result of what happened on Friday in Dublin, they are pulling him from the card, one of the punishments that they are handing him? That's correct. Absolutely. Absolutely. That's what they said.

So did you speak, so to the best of my knowledge, at least as of this year's concerned, he is licensed to fight in the state of Nevada because he just fought in the state of Nevada. Did you speak to the Nevada Athletic Commission? That's my understanding. Yes, I did. I did speak to Mr. Bennett. I explained me what occurred. He said, thank you very much. And that was the extent of the conversation. I will have a longer conversation, the more in depth conversation when I get back to the states as well as with Kim Sumpler, the commissioner in New York. I did speak with her as well. She, of course, you know, listen, they don't live under a railroad bridge, you know, they hear all this stuff just as everybody else does. So, you know, I will address it with her as well as when I get back. But again, I want to say that I may not be done with what I'm going to be doing. I need to speak to my attorneys and see what recourse I have on my end. Okay. What would you like to do?

Could you tell us that? What is appropriate in your opinion? Let me tell you this. If Mr. McGregor was licensed at Mohegan and he did this. or he did this, let's say he was licensed at Mohegan and he did this at another commission overseas, and he was licensed for me. I would suspend him indefinitely, and I would require for him to come to a hearing and explain himself. Again, I go back to the safety of the fighter. At the end of the day, Mr. Redmond was down.

He was unconscious. He was dizzy, and we were unable to provide medical attention to him because he had to dance around that cage and pushed Mr. Goddard, assault Mr. Goddard, as well as one of the Bellator employees. that's completely and totally unacceptable. I wouldn't even allow somebody in the audience to do that. Now, after he assaulted one of the Bellator individuals, one of the Bellator employees, he disappeared. He was removed. He went outside.

My concern is what's occurring in the cage. My concern isn't what's occurring outside on the streets. So, again, I'm a policy guy. I write policy. I follow policy. And I don't care if you're a kid that has his first person. debut or if you're Connor McGregor, you follow policy and you follow to the T. And if you don't, you're in fault and you have the right to be sanctioned.

Would it be fair to say that if any of these commissioners asked you, all right, Mr. Missouli, what would you do in this situation? You would then suggest to them to suspend them indefinitely? I would suggest, I mean, I would give them my suggestions. Of course, my suggestion. What do I do at Mohegan? Absolutely, 100%. He can take it to the grave.

But if Mr. Conner was licensed at Mohegan and he did that, because we do have an unsportsable conduct clause in my rules and regulations, I would adhere to my rules and regulations. And like I said, it's not just Mr. McGregor. It's anybody that does that, that I hear. You know, there's numerous local fighters that I've suspended. I find individuals for jumping on the cage. The policy is you don't jump on the cage.

You jump on the cage, you know, you're going to get. find. And I did this last fight. I find Mr. McGee, AJ, for another one I really, I hold dear to my heart, is flicking people off in the stand. No one wants to see that on TV. My children are home watching M.MA. They don't want to see that. It's unacceptable. So I find him in Dublin

for what he did. And I explained to him at the way, and I tell you guys this, at the rules meeting, this is what I say to you. Just like unsportsman like conduct. That's an unsportsman unsportsman like conduct violation. It's unacceptable. And so, again, I'm a policy and a rules guy, and if you break the rules, you've got to pay. Considering Connor wasn't a licensed cornerman, isn't licensed to M. O'Hagan, is there a chance that nothing will happen, that you just won't be able to do anything and this will just kind of go away? I have to say, I'm going to go out on a limb and say, no. I'm going to go out on a limb and say, you know what, UFC is going to sanction him.

There's no doubt. They already did. They already removed them from the November 3rd. 30th fight. So they already sanctioned him. So they did hit him with a, you know, he's not going to be making any more money this year. And I commend UFC for that. You know what I mean? I really do. I don't know how long you can go. How many things can happen within a month and that nothing happened to him. You know what occurred over in Poland. Everybody knows that. So I commend UFC and I think more promoters should be more proactive on something like this, having a stance.

What is your stance on touching an official? Because we've seen some situations with Jason High in New Mexico. We saw Roy Nelson with Big John McCarthy in Brazil. We saw a situation with, we've seen it a couple times. Your stance on it, and this one's a little different because it's not an actual fighter in the fight touching an official, but it's still a very known fighter, you know, the most well-known guy, you know, clearly putting his hands. There's a difference between suspending indefinitely and saying, okay, this is a one-year punishment. you know, no if, fans or butts. Do you have a stance on, you know,

what punishment should be levied when you're touching an official? Oh, absolutely. I mean, there's no gray area when it comes to touching the official. I think UFC has stated that in the past as well. There's zero gray area when it comes to touching an official. You don't have touched official in National Football League and you get a couple of games suspension, if I recall correctly, in a couple weeks ago it happened.

So there's a zero tolerance for that. And that's why I say, you know what, when you're a professional at that level, you have to handle yourself as a professional. There's a lot of people that are looking up to you and respecting you as an individual as a fighter. Don't get me wrong, Conor McGregor is a great, great fighter. I've watched every single fight of his, and that's what I do. This is my job. But when it comes to what he did to Mr. Goddard and Michael Johnson,

what would possess somebody to do that? Like I said, it was at Mohegan. I guarantee the Mohegan tribe police department would be removing Mr. Connor. There's no doubt in my mind. Do you think the other commissions are going to weigh in on this? Because often in MMA we've seen situations

where, for example, the Nevada Athletic Commission suspend someone for a year, fighter cannot fight in North America. Do you think in a situation like this, again, because he wasn't actually competing, he's a spectator, how do you think that your colleagues, if you will, because we've also seen that the

commissions in America sometimes aren't always on a unified front. What do you think that they will do? Because let's be real, Connor does bring a lot of money to the table. He is a very lucrative fighter. He'll bring a lot of money to any state. Yeah, you know, I really don't want to comment what Nevada's going to do. All I know is

UFC stated that they will do something very happy about. You know, I spoke to Bobby, I spoke to Bob Bennett, I spoke to Kim Sumpler, I explained to them what both occurred. You know, they have rules and policies. They have to follow as well. So my assumption is they're going to look at it very closely and do what they think is necessary.

Again, I want to state that if he was at Mohegan, there's no doubt in my mind, he would be suspended and he would be fined. And he would not be fighting at Mohegan for a minimum of six months, no doubt. Have you had a chance? Right. Especially with the fact that he touched the official. Yeah. And that's actually my next question. I'm sure you talk to Mark Goddard, but I'm just curious how extensive was that conversation.

I've asked to speak to him and he politely declined and he's someone who we all hold in, I think, very high regard, most of us at least. I think he's one of the best officials in the game, certainly up there with Big John and Herb Dean. I'm just wondering if you have any insight as to what he would like to see done in this situation. I've spoken to Mark. I explained to Mark. To me, Mark is one of the top four or five referees in the country and I use all the best. as you probably know. He is a professional.

You know, he's an excellent, excellent referee. I wouldn't wish that upon anybody. You know, Mark basically said to me afterwards. He's like, Mike, I know. I do Connor when he was coming up. And then when he was fighting a local scene, I don't understand what got into him. And I said to Mark, I said, Mark, you know what?

It doesn't matter. We're going to move forward. and we're going to, we'll address Connor when the time comes. And, you know, let's just move forward and then let's, let's worry about fighter safety. And that's the biggest thing. Again, I go back to fighter safety. I mean, people always say, ah, Missoulli, all these medicals required by Missouli at Mohegan. Ah, it's just so excessive.

You know, it's not excessive. So what it does is it saves lives. And, you know, somebody jumping in the cage and adversely affecting an individual for getting a medical attention is not right. And for an individual to be that level of a MMA fighter and being so respected throughout the whole world, you know, that is even worse because there's kids out there looking,

wanting to be a champion of the UFC, want to be a champ in Belator. And Mr. Ward and Mr. Redmond want to be a champ in both those organizations. And they weren't afforded. He took away the win for Mr. Ward because no one's talking about that Mr. Ward was actually on the cards. Mr. Ward was behind on the cards. I asked, after every fight, I have a post-flight meeting, and I talk to my officials, and we go over every single round.

And they all said, you know, before that punch, Mr. Ward was losing in my eyes, in my head, my computer in my mind, until he knocked him out with four minutes and 59 seconds into the round. He took that away from Mr. Ward as a winner. Now no one talks about that fight. No one talks about the three fights afterwards that were excellent. It's all about Connor McGregor, and that's what bothers me most, because you have these kids out there that are working hard to be a Connor McGregor. And that's how the only people remember of Dublin is Conner McGregor jumping in the cage.

Two last quick things before I let you go, Mike. And again, thank you so much for being on with us from Tel Aviv. you said that you've been doing this for a very long time, one of the pioneers as far as regulation is concerned. Just curious, have you ever seen a situation like this before? Famous Fighter, not licensed, spectator jumps in, I mean, I know it's very unique, but I'm just curious, is there a precedent here?

Oh, listen, this is, 100% is a precedent. 100%. Have I had crazy fans jump into the cage and after decisions made? Absolutely. I don't even think I've had a fan jump into the cage on a small show at Mohegan that during a fight, that's never happened before, never happened before.

I think sometimes people believe they're bigger than they really are, bigger than the sport. And it's got to be understood that no one's bigger than MMA. Fastest growing sport in the world, as everybody knows. What's the precedent? What's the other time that this has happened? Because obviously a fan is different than a fighter. You can't really, like, sanction a fan.

No, no, this is precedent. Absolutely. He said it. Oh, okay. Okay. Sorry. Gotcha. Gotcha. Yeah. No, no. I've had a fan jumping. Yeah, no, I've had a fan jumping. But this is precedent. This is something that's never happened before. And like, like, I got to admit, I sat there and I said, geez, this is crap. You know, and I got the cage. And somebody said, they didn't even see me in the cage. No, because I was over near the fighter making sure Redmond was all right.

I know Mr. Godder, Mr. Godder got pushed when he's over near the Redmond C. He went back to see if Mr. Redmond was all right. and that's when the melee started with Connor and him. So I don't understand what was going through. And that's not for me to decide. Right. And lastly for you, so you're in Tel Aviv for Belator 188 that happens at the end of this week.

So what basically the timeline, when you're going to look at this seriously and try to decide what, if anything, you're going to do, will that happen after Belator 188? And what kind of a timeline are we looking at? Well, that's interesting because, yeah, I get back on Friday afternoon. I go to my son's football game.

I'm going to plug Elon University down there. All right. And James Madison, that's number one, the FCS. And then Monday, I go up to Massachusetts to speak to the Mass Athletic Commission. So I'll be back in the office on Tuesday. And just so you know, I got a boxing show on Saturday, I read after Thanksgiving. So I'll be looking at it.

I probably give me a week and a half or so. So I know the attorneys don't work on Thanksgiving, even though I do. But it's going to take me a little while to come. come up with what they want, you know, what the next step is at this point. Mike, thank you very much. Good luck out there in the Holy Land. I really appreciate you coming on and trying to shed some light on this situation. Certainly a bizarre one.

Don't envy what you have coming up as far as this one is concerned. But again, thank you so much for coming on and talking about it on this Monday. It means a lot, and I appreciate your time. Take care. Have a good night. All right. There he is. Mike Mazzuli, president of the ABC, also the,

director of the Mohican tribe Department of Athletic Regulation. By the way, John Kavanaugh, who of course is the headman over at the Straight Blast Gym in Dublin. He was on the 6 o'clock show in Ireland this evening. This is courtesy of our own PT Carroll. These are some quotes on the situation. Charlie's one of Connors, very close friends, and he's coming off two pretty devastating losses. He lost fast

and hard in both his UFC fights and was dropped by the UFC and then he fought on Beltor. So when you're seeing someone that you're close with, with two bad defeats, and then has a great victory in front of his hometown crowd. He got a bit emotional, jumped in, and he didn't realize that the fight had not actually been called, as I said earlier. He thought, that's my editorial, by the way.

This is more from John. He thought when he knocked the guy down, it was over, but it was actually just the end of the round. The fight wasn't over. Interesting that Mike wouldn't really weigh in on that one. Again, my editorial, back to John, the referee was trying to tell him that the fight was over. It was pretty obvious it was over.

In his defense, he was a little bit over-emotional there, but you sort of understand when you know his and Charlie's relationship over the last number of years. It's the personal relationship that the two of them share. It's like the soccer players when they score goals. You see them running around and then some will go like this. It's funny because Connor wouldn't even do that for his own victory, which we've seen before. That is actually, that's accurate.

And he finished that up with. He gets more involved when it's a teammate, his friend's victory. So that's end quote from John Kavanaugh earlier this evening in, Ireland. Okay, we'll talk more about that situation a little later on in the program, but now we've got a very, very special treat for all of you. We don't usually do mystery guests, but we're going to do it right now. We have a mystery guest who is walking into the studio right now

with massive news to share. I teased a free agent who will be coming on this program to announce where he will be fighting next, where he has signed. Let us welcome him in right now. A lot of you very familiar with this man, one of the most recognizable faces in combat sports. There he is. Jack Swagger. How about this? This is straight out of pro wrestling right here. Mystery guest, I love it.

Jake Hager. How are you, Jake? I'm excellent, man. This is so much fun. Oh my gosh, you're telling me. What a dream, right? Yeah, I'm sure. A dream for you.

You have been all over the world. Thank you for coming in. I really appreciate it. Man, thank you for having me. Jack or Jake? Jake. Jake. Jake Hager is here in studio, the former WWE Heavyweight Champion,

ECW champion, the All-American University of Oklahoma. The Man, 10 years in World Wrestling Entertainment. You have left World Wrestling Entertainment as of earlier this year, you are the king of the Indies now. You're fighting for the Indies. You're all over the world. Stand up for the Indies.

Yes, I like it. Hashtag. But you have some news to break, and let's not beat around the bush. What's your news, my man? Well, I'm glad that I was able to come on the MMA hour and announce this. I have signed with Bellator, and I will be fighting heavyweight for them in 2018. Wow. Wow.

Congratulations. Thanks, man. A little in shock still. You are. A little surreal. But very excited about it. Something that I've wanted to do for. a long time and let's be honest

something that's been a part of me so it makes sense right? Yeah there's so much okay I have a lot to ask you about here. When did this get finalized? When did this get done? We have been working and talking with them through the summer. We started negotiations and whatnot and it I mean it literally got finalized

this weekend. Okay. Where we came to terms and are excited and next step it would be the set of date. Did you reach out to them first or your management or did they reach out to you guys? We reached to them. Okay. Did you leave WWE because you wanted to pursue an MMA career? Well, you know, it's funny.

Everyone asked me that, why did you leave the W.W.E. And, you know, for the longest time, very thankful for my career there. I mean, an average career up there is three years. I was able to go 10 years up there. And, you know, for the longest time, it's like, why did I leave? And I think it becomes very obvious. Like, this is

why I left the WBE. I wasn't allowed to, really compete up there, even though I felt like I could take anyone in the locker room. And now it's such a popular time to be a pro wrestler, to be in combat sports, to be an MMA fighter, where you can really take your opportunity and put in your own hands, your own hard work. And that's really why I left. Were you a fan of MMA while you were in WW? Were you the kind of guy who watched those fights as you were progressing as a pro wrestler

and saying, like, I need the real stuff. I want to get punched in the face. I don't want the scripted stuff. Was that going through your mind towards the tail end of your WW run? Yeah, absolutely. I think there's certain types of guys that just need to be punched in the face,

want to taste blood. Okay. And I think I'm definitely like that. And maybe I got away from that for too long. And so I've always been a fan of MMA. I've been wrestling since I was five years old. And so some form of that always transcends to me. and a big fan of what they're doing.

Awesome, awesome working with Bellator. So excited to be with a company that values its assets and its talent and really is going to put 100% towards it instead of, you know, the other way. Okay. That seems like, as the kids say, maybe some shade towards the UFC. Is that what the kids say these things?

Well, it's not shade because it's the truth. I mean, you can just see how certain people get treated up there. and like, you know, it was crazy. It's like, are you serious? So it was time to move on. And just really excited for, you know, for the first time in a decade, my hard work, my dedication will directly pay off to my results. You're represented by one of the best managers in the game, Danny Rubenstein.

Whoa, shout out. The man, Ruby Sports. Ruby Sports. A fellow Sooner. Yes. Did you guys talk to any other organizations like the UFC? Asia, one. I don't know.

Or was it just Belator? Did you know that that's where you wanted to go? We reached out to UFC, but in our heads the whole time, Belator was the end run. That's where we wanted to go. Like I said, they just seemed like a company that, like, values its talent and its assets. And I think it's on the rise. Like, you see what Bellator is doing with the roster that they bring in, not only at heavyweight, but, like, at all weights, it's really becoming great and tough all the way through.

It's very exciting to be a part of that. that it just seemed like the best fit for me. Like, I know everyone's going to say, hey, you've never fought MMA before. Well, 12 years ago, I was never a pro wrestler, you know, so it just seemed like a good fit. And working with Rich and Scott, I can tell. Like, it feels kind of corny, it sounds corny, but it feels meant to be. Since March, did you train in MMA? Did you spar?

Do you know what it's like to get punched in the face? Have you done Jiu-Jitsu? What have you been doing as far? far as your MMA's crew. Because I know you still wrestle, right? You still go around, you travel. You were just at a show, I think, this past weekend, I think, this past weekend at the Cal Palace. It was really cool. Oh, wow. Legendary Arena. Yeah, yeah. First time to work there, believe it or not, with APW. So what as far as MMA have you been doing since you left?

So I've been training with Ebor City Jiu-Jitsu in Tampa. Okay. That's where you live. That's where I live. A guy there, Joey Best, been doing strength and conditioning with Josh Rafferty. Former Ultimate Fighter. Former Ultimate Fighter. mad scientist when it comes to, I mean, he just really knows, I think he knows amateur wrestlers, so I think it's a great fit for me and him to put together and go on this journey together because he's going to know what I need to do and how to translate that for me into the stuff.

Because, I mean, it's no clue. I have a lot to learn. We're learning fast and it's very exciting. And then been doing a lot of boxing as well. Okay. So is that your team? That's my team for right now. Okay.

We haven't signed with any. big organization right now, kind of been like doing it under wraps. One, because I do and go pro wrestle every weekend. So training-wise, it's like kind of had to be on my own schedule and put it in there. Did you, you know, did you talk to, you know, I don't know, what's a relationship like with punk? Yeah. Punk Lashley, these guys who've tried to do both. Have you talked to any of them about how difficult this may be?

I haven't talked to Phil since he left the company. So you were very close friends. I mean, when you travel as much as you do together, you kind of, you become acquainted, you know each other, definitely. I'd say we're friends, but, you know, it's more of a work relationship. I recently ran into Bobby a couple weeks ago at a show. And he was so excited for me. I kind of broke the news to him early.

Oh, wow. Sorry, Bobby. Well, he kept the secret. He did keep the secret. And he was very excited for me. And he was like, absolutely, you should. should go and do this. Okay.

So I think that was a nice seal of approval and a good confidence booster. You know, I'm friends with Chale, Sonin. He's been absolutely great as a mentor and any questions I asked. But very excited, yeah. Will you be pausing the pro wrestling stuff while you try to, you know, get ready for your debut? Are you going to try to do both at the same time? Man, I think it's cool right now that there's a huge opportunity here to do both at the same time. very fortunate that I have a little bit of a name and I'm following.

So I kind of want to use, do both. I want to pro wrestle and I want to be a fighter to help each other. It's 2017, about to be 2018. Combat sports is the most popular in the world right now. And like Mr. Missouli was saying, how fast it's growing. So I think if you're able to do both and you can stay healthy and you can, you know, be honest with yourself and say, hey, I'm ready to step in that cage while I can still go wrestle on the weekends,

then all four and do it. You know, it's a special thing, and it's going to be difficult, but it sounds like a lot of fun. And I think right now, at least you see what pro wrestlers is, is you want the ball in your court and in your hands, and you want that opportunity. And, like, this is the best opportunity for me to take my future in my hands and really see where it can go and how far it can go.

I mean, everybody wants to cross over, movies, whatever. I'm not really a movie guy. I like movies, but I'd rather go and, like you said, get punched in the face or maybe not get punched in the face. And go that way out. I've been doing this since I was five, so it makes sense for me. And I would definitely love to keep pro wrestling

and become a professional bellatory M.A fighter. Okay, so you mentioned Heavyway, right? Yeah. How much you weigh right now, if you don't mind me asking, how much you expect to weigh when you are an active fighter? So right now I'm about 271. Okay. So heavyweight really works perfect for me.

I've always been the type that I'm tall, lanky, keeping weight on as a problem. So I'm going to try to bulk up as much as possible. So when it comes down on the fight, I'm going to be right at the mark. Okay. 265 you're going to be. Be a bigger heavyweight. Wow. and hopefully still be able to move.

Wow. How tall are you? Six five. Six, five. For those, and you've been mentioning, you know, you've been wrestling since you were five, Oklahoma, actually a two sport athlete at Oklahoma, wrestling and football as well.

I know that there are fans who watch our sport, who are big pro wrestling fans. I don't need to tell them anything about you. They know who you are. They recognize the face, but there are also fans who sometimes get a little hot under the collar when wrestling in MMA mix, even though there's a long history there.

Tell us about the wrestling background, how long you've been doing this for. because, you know, S.M. Punk, I'll say I consider him a friend, and he's been very kind to me. But your background is different than his. You competed in wrestling. You're an all-American at the University of Oklahoma, one of the best. So I just want people to recognize what we're dealing with here because it's a little different than, you know, some of the other situations we've seen in the past. Yeah. So I started wrestling when I was five. I was very fortunate to grow up in Perry, Oklahoma, wrestling capital of the world, where everything around there is amateur wrestling, great coaches. three-time state finalists in Oklahoma, two-time state champ, had offers out of high school to wrestle and play football.

Oklahoma just won the national championship back in 2000. And so, okay, I'll go play football. And then I ended up doing both there, and it was really a blessing in disguise, even though it sucked at the time. What? Man, just because I feel at the Division I level, it's so tough it's a job it's not it's not a hobby anymore okay and of course we're paying for college but

there's a lot of money on it on the line so you're required more you have higher responsibilities you literally have your school your practice and then you know you have a whole other sport where you have to do the same thing and then you have to be accountable for your teammates and be a good teammate so It was very busy at the time, but blessed. And I got in All-American in 2006, and then March, and then by July of 06, I was signed with WWE to become a pro wrestler, which at that time, I had never seen a pro wrestling ring up close and personally, only in TV. Were you a fan growing up?

Yeah, I was a fan. I got into the Monday Night Wars in the 90s, like when I was in junior house. and whatnot. And of course, growing up... You're 35, correct? Yes, sir. Okay. Yeah.

And so, been a fan. Look, I mean, wrestlers are all kind of the same. Any type of wrestling that we can get our hands to, we, like, jump at. And, you know, if there was a wrestler in here right now, I'd probably want to go takedowns. That's right. If we're messing around or whatnot. You are a product of Jim Ross, as far as wrestling is concerned, the Oklahoma connection. Was he the one that signed you?

Jim Ross and Jerry Briscoe were the guys... Another Oklahoma guy, right? Oklahoma State guy. Did you want to become a problem? pro wrestler, did they approach you and say, hey, this would be good for you? It was really cool. That worked out. You know, it takes a little bit of luck to get anywhere in this life. And I met them halfway through and they were great. They understood that, you know, I have college, I have university. So they were like, finished school. And then if you want to

come to do it, absolutely. They were like, you're so tall. And all my life was like, why don't you play basketball? I was like, I'm just not a basketball guy. I can jump. I'm not a basketball guy. And so I actually tried to find every other job I could before I graduated. Really? To iron out like, okay, this is the best opportunity. I knew what a huge opportunity it was at the time, but I had a degree in finance and I wanted to go into that field, but that was 06. So I'm so glad I didn't go to that field at the time. And I went out for a tryout and then everything was cool. It was like out there for a week and never had done any of the stuff before, like, touched the ring, and had gone through training for it. And it was definitely an eye awakening experience and a lot of bumps and bruises, but it worked out because the amateur wrestling helped me so much with a technique.

I was able to adjust and get there faster. And I'm going to rely on that same amateur background when crossing over into MMA. Obviously, MMA, nowhere near as popular back then as it is today. Did you ever consider out of college going into MMA? Did that ever cross your mind? You know, it's funny. When I got done wrestling in college, I was like, oh, there's no way I can do any more athletic competition,

like my body is beat up or whatnot. And, man, it's amazing what you can do. It really is what your mind says and what you really can do is two different things. And so I had guys going into it. But then at the time that I knew and I were friends with, Johnny Hendrix at that time, was a friend of mine. Oklahoma State, though.

Oklahoma State. You guys interact? I thought you're not allowed to talk to each other. I could say it now. Okay. But, you know, back then. But, like, seeing what guys like that did, Cain Velasquez, so I was training for the W.W.E. when they were all kind of breaking out and doing their thing.

And it was very cool. I considered it at the time, but like you said, it wasn't that popular. And honestly, I didn't like follow it that much. Okay. When you saw guys like Brock do well and all that, I mean, I felt like the locker room was always very supportive of him and his endeavors. But when you saw someone, like, was there a moment where it all changed for you where you're like, this is something I really want to consider it? Do you remember that moment when you started to actually seriously start to consider it? Me and Danny, Danny Rubinstein, best manager ever. We had literally been talking about this for at least five years.

And when it first started, I was like in contract negotiations with WW. And I ended up signing another five-year contracts. So we're kind of like, okay, we'll wait. And it's always something like we have a buddy that we wrestle with that Oklahoma named Matt Grice. Great father. He had a fight in Tampa and we met there. And that was really kind of like the eye opening for me and like kind of got my love for it. Like, oh, I want this.

And I felt it. And ever since then, we had kind of like working towards it and slowly building until we're here. Did you enjoy being a pro wrestler? Yes, I did. You're happy with it. Yeah, yeah. I love pro wrestling. Like I said, I love any type of wrestling.

But there's something about being able to get the crowd in your hands and whether they're booing you or cheering you. It's awesome. I mean, what, I prefer booing or cheering? You know what? I grew up in Perry, and we were very fortunate to have a good program, and we wrestled the bigger schools, but we'd also wrestle the smaller schools because we're a small town. And when we'd go to these small town tournaments, everybody would boo us because we would have like 13 of the 14 weights in the finals or whatnot. And so I got my taste for booing then. I loved it.

Okay. It was just awesome. Like, boo the crap out of me. You know, I'll do it. And then I was a heel, bad guy for most of my career, the WWE, and I was fortunate enough to switch over to Babyface. And maybe the egotistical part of me started liking the cheers and whatnot like anybody. But either way, as long as you're reacting, it's fun to be in there and to control them. If you can't control the fans, because they're their own beast, and they're going to follow what they want.

I know it's a grind and there's politics and things like that. Any regrets from your run in WWE? I'm not going to be one of those guys that is bitter and, you know, be mad about what I didn't accomplish. I'd rather just say anything I didn't accomplish was on me and that I should have been better for the longest time there. I felt like I was literally the toughest guy in the locker room, yet I would go out there and have two-minute matches with guys that couldn't hold my jock. and, you know, I even got to the point where, like, I pitched to them. I was like, look, I got something to prove. You guys are a great platform.

Let me prove it. Let me, let me have a, you know, pick the fighter. I'll fight anybody. Put them on your show and I'll fight them. And, you know, they didn't really want to go down that route. Like a real fighter we're talking about. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like a shoot fight.

Let's go out there and, like, let's do something different along those lines. And I don't know if they just didn't believe in my abilities. but now we're here to show it. But it's crazy. You know, stuff like that always happens and it just got pushed to the side. And I was like, all right, well, I'm still here. I'm going to go do it.

It's a great opportunity that I'm going to take advantage of. The whole We the People, American thing. We the people! There it is. Sorry, guys. No, no, I love it. Were you okay with that? That was controversial, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Are you comfortable with that? You know, it's funny. My buddy, John Piramini, and I wrote that storyline. Oh, really? And we submitted it. You came up with it. Yeah, we came up with it.

And the storyline that you saw was just like a microcosm of a big picture that we had with it. But that's what they took and that's what, I mean, it just worked out perfectly. I'm okay with it. I thought it was great to make waves. We got Glenn Beck to cry about it. And to me, it's one of the biggest honors of my program. wrestling career to be a part of we the people because I think it illustrates what pro wrestling is and like the fans they like something they'll take control of it and it will evolve and it's no longer like

an American political storyline it's literally for the people and it's not just America when I go to the UK when I go to Japan when I go to Australia when I even go to Mexico they all stand up and say we the people because it's transformed and evolved into a people movement and to me that's what's best about pro wrestling is if the fans take it and make it their own. Did it ever get weird? Like, you know, sometimes people take these things a little too seriously. Did you ever get any, like, weird messages or people getting upset about the angle or anything like that?

Not that I can... Other than Glenn Beck? Not that I can remember too much. I know it was very controversial at the time, and it was harsh language. Yeah. And, like, could we do that angle now with the president we have? now, maybe not.

Maybe it gets stamped on too much. But for the most part, I felt like everyone understood what we're doing. And it was cool. I was fortunate enough to work with a Mexican superstar to just play up that angle even more. And it was one of those things that you can't really control it or write it. It just has to happen and come together. It's a special dynamic. Was that your best time in WW, the most famous, you know, favorite angle that you've had?

Is that the most fun that you had while a member of the roster? Oh, man. Very fortunate to work with so many great guys up there. Definitely one of my best parts of my career. The tag team with Dirty Dutch Mantel, Zeb Coulter, and Antonio Cizaro, the Real Americans. That was just something special that kind of came together off of an injury. And it really turned into something. And, you know, I have to thank Cizaro a lot for the popularity of We the People,

because that guy is just a rocket ship, you know, ride him to the moon. And I would definitely put it up there. I mean, being friends with Zeb and Cesar, I'll put that up there. And being able to work with them, I'll put that up there with winning a World Heavyweight Championship because that's how instrumental they were. Wow. You know, not only in the ring, but outside. Sure.

In the personal life, which, you know, when you travel that much, you really have to rely on these guys. The travel is horrible, right? It's a lot of work. Yeah. How many days a year were you at? averaging? Over 220. You know, Friday through Tuesday. So like sometimes 36 hours at home and you're back at it again. And so you've got to have a great support system at home and people that understand like what we're trying to do. You know, I'm from a small town in Oklahoma. So for me, the travel was one of the

best parts because I got to go out there and see the world and see things that I probably couldn't pronounce at the time. Right, right, right. Now I'm very well spoken. That's right. So to be clear, you asked to be released, right? Yep. Because it was a weird thing where you, I think, wasn't it on Chales podcast where you announced that you wanted to be released and then the WWE said, no, you're not released. And then a few days later, they actually released you. They were like upset that you said it first. Did that happen? It was something like that. We had been in contract negotiations and it just got to the point where they stalled.

I felt like they were dragging their feet because they really didn't want to come to where I was at, even though they were telling me I was worth that. And so I got tired of it. I know they were, I think because it was right around the WrestleMania that they didn't want anything like that out. So I just got tired of waiting because it had literally been about five months since November

that we had been doing this, and they still weren't taken away. weeks to do things. And so took the ball in my own hands and made the announcement, which I'm sure they didn't like because they like to make the announcement. It's funny, in pro wrestling perception is reality. I'm sure that it is a little bit with MMA. So like if they were to release me, is my value lower because they released me? Or is my value higher because I said, I'm tired of this. I'm better than this. And I can do more. And I'm tired of being wasted. So, So it's kind of like...

Smart. Yeah. So be careful what you wish for, but here we are. How is it going back to the Indies? You know, small shows, small arenas. For the most part, Cal Palace is obviously legendary, but I'm sure you're not MSG, things like that. So far, so good.

Everyone is worried about bad promoters, bad promotions, you know, getting stiff. For me, so far, so good. Everyone I worked with has been beyond hospital. Spitable. Like I said, I was very fortunate to go right to the company. So I haven't been in the side of it. And it is different. And there's a lot of things that you have to learn as far as how the crowds work and the shows and the types of matches that you can have and what they expect from the matches. So it's definitely a journey. But it's been great, man. Learning a lot. And part of the reason why I left is because I wanted to go fight, but also at the same time, I wanted to become more of a pro wrestler, more complete pro wrestler, and wrestling, MMA, whatever life, it's a journey. And you're going to have your roller coasters, your ups and downs, and you've got to ride out the wave. But, like, I love the Indies because it's so intimate. It always feels like the fans are, like, right on top of you. And you really get to give them more of an experience from a fan's point. Like, I meet them

Like almost every show, I'm doing meet and greets. And it's cool to see how popular it can become. And even though they are smaller shows, they're very powerful shows. And I think that's like the thing that gets out there. I mean, I think Internet is the future of TV. I think it's Internet as the future of pro wrestling. And all the big promotions on the Independence, all stream their shows live. And, you know, with social media, it's just as easy to get a name out there without a platform.

So it's a lot of fun, interesting, and it's a lot of work at the same time. Are you Jack Swagger on the Indies? I'm Jack Swagger. You own the name? No, I don't. So how do you go about that? I don't know. Okay.

I won't make a big deal. What about in Bellator? It's going to be formally known as Jack Swagger, Jake Hager. Okay. So kind of working out the details. We reached out to WWE and told them what was going to happen and see if they wanted a part of it. What would you mean? With the MMA thing?

Yeah, yeah. reach out to them. Well, I reached out to them, told them it was going to happen. And, you know, because the whole owning names is such a big thing in pro wrestling right now. They like to control everything. Of course, it is a money maker for them and asset. So, look, I get it. It seems a little silly that you can own a name.

But reached out to them and, you know, like, ask them what they'd be comfortable with. And they kind of cabashed it. So I was like, no, man, you guys are missing out again. Wow. Wait, but they're letting you do it on the Indies? Or you're just not, you're just going with it? You know, ride her until she bucks here. You don't ride at all, I guess.

All right, fair enough. And so you have a wife with two children, correct? Yes. How did your wife feel about you going into MMA? A little different, right? Was she supportive right off the bat? Yeah, she's very excited. She has always been a big MMA fan.

Oh, really? Yeah, she's, you know, trained Jiu-Jitsu, a lot of her life, even though she's a model. Okay. First time I told her that I loved her. It was after she woke me up from choking me out. Okay. All right.

Is that domestic violence if your wife chokes you out? I don't know. Whatever. Ah, forget it. Why don't you say that? But she's been very supportive. Definitely could not do this without her. Man, it's such a beautiful woman and so smart and so tough and resilient.

And like, understand the position that we're in and a huge opportunity that this could create. so it's really special and very lucky to have that support system and it just is going to make training and getting ready for this even better. So you'll be training at least as of right now in Tampa. Yep. You said 2018. Yeah. First quarter, second quarter.

What are you thinking? Well, I'm definitely not on that CM Punk schedule. What does that mean? Well, I'm going to fight in 2018. I like to fight twice in 2018. Okay. So we'd probably have to do first quarter end of first quarter. Okay.

April, May, get that first one under the belt. And if I'm still standing, we'll go to the next one. How many fights did you sign for? It's a six-fight deal. Six-fight deal. Good deal. You happy with the money? Very happy with the deal.

How does it compare to the WWE deal? It's kind of different because that deal is more like it feels like per show where this is like an overall coverage type deal. I feel very happy with a deal. I felt a lot of love from Bellator, and I feel like they're very excited to have me, be a part of the roster, not just be a freak show coming in to take some money. I'm here to compete.

I'm here to be a champion. And if I become champion at Bellator, I feel like that's almost bigger than a champion at WWE right now. Any concerns about the age? 35, not a lot of people. I mean, Randy Couture did it later on in his career. Yeah, absolutely.

Okay, so no problem. I think I would be a fool not to be concerned about it. Okay. This is a very serious thing. I mean, those guys that go in and do this are like tough as nails, and it's their family versus your family. So honestly, like I can't believe it. My body feels better than I have.

Since I started training this year, it's one of those things. I was like, why did I ever get away from this? You know, I should have been doing this for at least the last five years since me and Rube started talking about it because once I started training, I just realized that, yeah, this is me, this is who I should be, punched me in the face,

let me taste some blood, and let's compete. So very happy with the contract and what they are doing for me and glad to be under the Bellator umbrella. They just announced a heavyweight tournament. How cool is that? Yes, good timing for you.

I mean, the heavyweight division now, all of a sudden in the news, they don't have a champion. You're not going to be a part of that, though, right? I mean, you're not going to be an alternate or anything like that? You know, I think that's a long ways off. Okay, okay.

Just what, I mean, there's guys who have been around for decades. I mean, yeah, honestly, there's probably 10 to 12 guys that could go in there and deserve it more than me. Okay. That's happening later in the year, right? So. Starts in January. Oh, it starts in January.

But it kind of covers the entire year. Right, right. So, I mean, if there's an injury or something, and I don't know, if I have a lot to prove, so I'm kind of focusing on that. then we'll worry about the title picture after that. Do you know who your first opponent is? No. Okay.

No. I really don't care. I'm so excited to be here and fight. Just tell me the date. I'll fight them. So you said April May is your preference. Yeah. One big thing that Beltaire has been doing lately with the free agents that they've signed is they're doing away with the win bonus,

where it's just you get paid to show up and fight. And a lot of fighters seem to like that as opposed to the UFC model. You get paid show money. And then if you win, you get the other half. Is your deal like that as well? Belator way where you're just getting a flat fee to just show up and fight? Yeah, show up and fight and don't disappoint a couple bonuses in there if we reach any, you know, rankings or television ratings or whatnot.

But show up and fight pretty plain and simple. Wow, and you will have sponsors. That's one thing you could have in Belator that you can't in the UFC as well, right? At least during the fight. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're working on sponsors to go forward, especially to help with training and whatnot. So I'm open. By the way, did you watch Punk's UFC fight?

I did. What did you think of it? That was a hell of a double leg by making it. You know, it's easy to sit here and talk shit about stuff like that. But, you know, the guy supposedly put his heart into it and is still training. So, like, hats off to him. I come from, like, a little bit of a pro wrestling mindset where, you know, stuff like that seems like it was for the money. And so if you made a lot of money from it, great, good for you.

But at the same time, it just seemed like he just went right from pro wrestling into there and wasn't training for two and a half years. That was just my opinion on it. Was everyone talking about it? Was it like did you guys watch together? Were you on the road somewhere and everyone got together and watched? Do you remember what it was like? Well, definitely the boys were talking about it and like, you know, wanted to see what he could do.

I don't exactly remember where I was when I watched it. I'm sure I was on the road being a Saturday. That's right. And, you know, like punk or hate punk, if you're a pro wrestling fan, you know, it's a small knit community and we like to support each other. Sure. You know, sad to see it went down the way he did, but I hear he has another fight possibly coming up. So we'll see if anything has changed. You mentioned talking to Bobby Lashley.

Did you, I don't know what your relationship was like with Brock. Did you get his take on anything? because I mean his is probably more like yours in the sense that wrestled in college and then made the switch over. Did you talk to him at all about it about this move? No, I'm friends with Brock. Does he have a cell phone? Does he even use phone?

It's so weird. Like the idea of Brock on the phone is just weird to me. Like it's such a foreign. Well, you know, he's from South Dakota, around from North Dakota. Oh, damn. I can't make too much fun of them. It does seem very funny.

think about him on a cell phone. I remember the first time I talked to him, though. Like, he had some kids from Minnesota up behind the scenes, and we're saying hi to him. And we spoke for a little bit after that. And I thought he was very intelligent, very smart guy. And, you know, he knows who he is. But I haven't spoke to Brockson's.

I've been considering this now. Right. So right now, have you ever been to a Bell Tour event, by the way? Have you ever seen it? I'm sure you've watched them, right? Oh, yeah. Do you like the presentation? because honestly it's a little more like pro wrestling than the UFC's presentation with the ramp and the video.

They let their hair down a little bit sometimes, right? I mean, this feels like the perfect fit in my opinion as opposed to the UFC because I feel like they're trying to do things a little differently and bring out personalities and maybe go against the grain. And I'm wondering if you felt the same after watching their events like, yeah, this feels like a more natural fit for me. I'm a big fan of the product. I like what they do and I like what they're trying to do. and it just feels like it's a movement and that they're kind of in it together with the fighters as opposed to telling people what to do

and where to sit type deal. Their setup is very similar to a WWE setup, which is cool. But I think in 2017, everything has aspects of pro wrestling related to it. So it's going to be very interesting to see where they go and I think they have the MMA world watching them to see what's going to happen next. And you always want to be on the cutting edge

and trying stuff. And if it doesn't work, I'll try something else type deal. I grew up, I was a gigantic pro wrestling fan, just obsessed with it. Brett Hart was my guy. And then over time,

I kind of transitioned away now, doing this full time. I feel like I get the same satisfaction out of MMA that I did as a pro wrestling fan because of the unpredictability of MMA. I found that wrestling became too predictable. and anyone, it drives me nuts, even though I don't watch it these days,

it drives me nuts when fans want to ignore the fact that the roots of MMA are in pro wrestling. I mean, anytime a fighter calls out another fighter or Connor, very much like a Rick Flair, the way he acts and dresses and talks and trash talk, it's all pro wrestling. The whole thing is pro wrestling. And so I think it's crazy when people want to ignore

the relationship between the two. And I'm wondering if you will use some of the lessons that you learned in pro wrestling as an MMA fighter, will you play a character, will you talk trash, or are you just going to be Jake Hager, you know, former Oklahoma wrestler who's coming in and doing his thing? How will you balance that? I think that's a great question. Like right now, I want to be very respectful to the MMA community and not just be some guy like, oh yeah, I can do this. Okay. I'm ready to come in and work hard and I don't care who I fight, I'll fight them. Once we get a fight set and we have

a name, yeah, absolutely. Why not? It seems like that's the way to go. My wife, is a huge GSP fan because he doesn't talk trash and he doesn't want to, but you can't ignore the entertainment side of this. It's like the character side is very important and whether like you're a great fighter or not, if you have a great character, it does help a lot. And so there you have to weigh it and you have to be smart on how you do it. But absolutely. Like I think you have to go in there with a character and like not just character, some swagger, some confidence. confidence and know who you are and, you know, be ready to say that. Yeah, part in the pun, I think a lot of the fans were wrestling with the idea of CM Punk.

Like when he came in, they wanted pipe bomb CM Punk. Yeah. And he was a very respectful and sort of calm CM Punk. And they were like, where's that guy who is, you know, talking smack about Vince and Triple H? They wanted that guy. And so I think it's it's a tough because we sort of typecast you guys. Like, oh, you're that character. You're not.

You're not the we the people guy, you know, that we saw on TV. I mean, there's elements, of course. and so they want to see the character in the MMA world. They don't want to just see like the Sunday morning getting coffee guy. You know what I mean? There's a balance there, right? I think Brock did a good job of balancing the two very well. He seemed like the same guy in WWE as he was in the UFC.

Well, maybe I'll bring in Zeb and I'll have a mouthpiece. There's definitely the two sides of it that you have to do. And I think you absolutely hit the nail on the head that people did want that. I think since Stone Cold, everybody wants to tell their boss and flip them the middle finger. That's right. And that inspires people, that inspires people to go to work easier

or, you know, go work out harder or something like that. So it's very important and definitely that's something that's going to be important moving forward. Do you have a dream match? Like one guy you'd love to fight? Ah, man.

Maybe not right away, of course, but work towards that? I've always been a fan of a big country. Oh, wow. Okay. I just like his style. He doesn't look like a typical fighter, but just got an iron jaw. And, you know, a lot of, he's got a good gas thing for his size. And so I think right now that would be a dream fight. And he just so happens to be in Bellator.

Wow. How about that? Isn't that weird? How far away do you think we are from that? Let's see. I mean, I can be honest. I've been training for about eight months now. Like I said, we'll probably be fighting in April or May.

I think until that I had that first fight, it's hard to tell. Okay. But who knows? Okay. You know, maybe this just comes to me really fast and we get there sooner. It's one of those things where you want to push it and you want to be ready for it. And, you know, injuries and health comes a lot into that too.

So I don't know, maybe 2019. How many years do you want to do this for? Well, it's a three-year deal that I signed for. Is it like, do the six fights or the three years, whichever comes first? first? No, it's six fights in three years. Okay. It's like six fights in three years.

Okay, but what if like you only get four fights in three years? Does the contract expire? No. Okay. Keep going. Yeah, I'll just extend. Okay, okay, okay. Keep going until we get there.

And we make it to four fights, you know, I'm sure other things will happen besides that. Okay. Very, very excited to do it. Do you want the debut to be in Oklahoma? They go to Oklahoma a lot, Thackerville to be exact. I don't know where that is in relation to where you grew up. but do you want to debut in Oklahoma? Does that make sense to you?

Oh, man, that'd be cool. My senior year at Oklahoma, I got to wrestle the national tournament in Oklahoma City, and I think the entire town of Perry came to watch me, and I still remember that feeling, like having them up in the stands on such a big stage. Like, wow, this is really cool to see what wrestling, to see what MMA can do and transcend. So fighting in Oklahoma would be great, but I don't care. Okay.

I want to fight. Well, this is exciting. Congratulations. I appreciate you making the trek. You came in just for this and that means a lot. Thank you very much to you and Danny and the Bell Tour team for making this happen. And I think a lot of people are going to be pulling for you. I saw my Twitter just exploding with the news.

You kept it under your hat for a very long time. Wow, I was nervous about it. That's why I said mystery guests. I didn't even want to announce that you were coming in because I felt like people would start digging. You did a good job. Well, you know. We proved in 2017 that secrets can actually happen. People can keep secrets.

We worked them, didn't we? Yes, we worked them. Very well said. Jake, congratulations. Good luck to keep us posting. on your progress and I wish you nothing but the best in 2018. This is going to be a lot of fun. Thank you and thank you to the fans of the MMA world. I will not disappoint, I promise. Thank you so much. My man Joe is going to walk you out over there. Safe Travel is home.

Good luck to you and I'd love to have you closer to the flight. We'll talk about the progress and the debut and everything like that. Very curious to see how this goes. Awesome, my friend. All right. There he is. Jake Hager. Thank you so much. All the best to you. We the people do your thing, my man. There he goes. The former WWE Heavyweight Champion, and former ECW champion, All-American at the University of Oklahoma, and now a member of the Bellator MMA heavyweight roster. How about that one?

Who saw that coming, huh? Did we work you? I didn't even want to say that he was going to be on the show because I knew a lot of you little scoundrels out there, as I would do, by the way. So I respect it. A lot of you would go around and start digging. So mystery guest, I believe that's our first mystery guest

in the history of the program, and I think it was a success. And thank you very much to Danny Rubenstein, the best manager in the business for getting that one done for us. We'll talk about him a little later on in the program. I wholeheartedly appreciate his work and also him making it happen to have Mr. Jake Hager, aka Jack Swagger, in studio, the news member of the Bellator MMA heavyweight roster. How about that? So much fun. That was a lot of fun.

Enjoyed that greatly. Okay. Speaking of the Belator MMA heavyweight roster, how fun is this? Late last week, as I said, not only did they announce their heavyweight tournament. They also announced that they've re-signed Rampage Jackson. Our friend Quentin Rampage Jackson is back in Belator. Who saw this coming? Remember we asked Scott Coker about it?

Remember we asked him about it when he was on the 400th episode? But they actually got it done. and I do believe Quentin Jackson is on the phone. Is he on the phone? No, he's on Skype. Wow, this is amazing. There he is. My friend Rampage.

Congratulations, Muzzletove. You're back. This is Ariel. Muslim Toes. How you doing? We did it. You're back. We did it.

I'm black. I'm so excited. I can hear you just fine. You're looking great. Cool. You seem very excited about all this. I am very excited. How about Jack Swagger? Did you see that?

No, I couldn't see him. I heard him, but I don't know why I couldn't see him on the sky. You know who he is? I want to see half your beard. You know who he is, Jack Swah? You don't know. All right. Former WWE heavyweight champion coming to belt or maybe a future opponent of yours. Oh, that's cool.

That's cool. Yeah. I used to be a big fan of the year. All right. Well, Rampage, we have a lot to discuss. Last time we talked to you, you were talking about, you know, coming back and the contract situation. We had Scott Koker on. He kind of dismissed it.

I was like, and he's like, no, no, you know, I think Rampage has a deal with UFC. How are you back in Belletor? Can you explain this to us? All I can say is I got the best manager in the business, man. I got the best manager. Tiki Gossan, he works some miracles. You know, nothing against the UFC. You know, I got love for the UFC.

but, you know, I think after things cleared up with my little lawsuit with Paramount and everything, I think Scott Coker and I worked well together once I switched over with Tiki managing me. And I just, I just liked it over there. And, you know, I like the energy. I like the vibe, you know, and I also like that I can, you know, support all my sponsors. You know what I'm saying? That's very important to me because I'm not. I'm a wolf. I'm a very lawyer.

And I got some sponsors that I really like to go in love to and stuff. So I really like that over there in those. Um, Rampage, can you do me a favor and just put your camera up a little bit? I want to see your full face. You have such a great face, such a beautiful face. I want to see the full thing. Um, you can't see me? Oh, I see half your face.

Oh, that's better. Now I see your full body. This is great. Oh, but now there's like sun involved. So I don't see you as clearly. You're very dark. The way you were before was great. Just tilted up a little bit.

I can't see it. I can't see. I can't tilt it because I just need for these new place. And I can't tilt. I can't tilt it. I can't do nothing. I can't see nothing. I can't do nothing.

I just have these new place. Okay, so do it how it was before. That's good. That's good. I see my whole. You're good. I see my hole. I can't see none of you.

You're good. I can't see none of you. I just see your. All right. You don't want to see me. You don't see your arm. What do you need to see me for? Actually, you're right.

all I can see is your nose and the microphone. Perfect. My two best features. So did you even consider going back to UFC or was this your top choice? Did you really want to go back? Because I thought you had some issues with Scott Coker with Belator. You know, how did you come to the decision that this was the best place for you? I think most of the issues I had with Scott Coker probably lived with Anthony McGahn

and stuff. So once I got rid of Anthony McGahn, I didn't have any more problems with Scott Coker. I think Scott's a great promoter. And like I said, I got no problems or no issues with the UFC. I think the UFC's done great things for the sport and everything. And, you know, I'm just going to keep it there with the U.S. I like it over at Delta, so I'm, you know what I'm saying?

I like the energy. I like it. Okay. And last thing on all this. That's all I can say. That's all I can say. Okay. Oh, we don't want that. We certainly don't want that. But I'm just curious because when you came back and you've had that fight in Montreal against Fabio Maldonado, didn't you have that deal that you had to come back to and finish out with the UFC?

How did you get out of that? I already told you how I got out of that. Tiki. I got the best management. That's right. I got the best management. Where's Tiki at? Really?

Tiki on the phone? Is he on the phone? Tiki's right there. Oh, he's right there. He's so shy, Tiki. And now we only see your forehead. You've got to see the famous beard. There it is.

Hey. What happened to the blonde in the beard in the goatee? Man, that fell out a long time ago. You're a manager now, Tiki? I am. I've been doing it for a while. Managing guys for a while, but, you know. Can you tell us how you got this done?

How did you get this done? How did you get them out of this? the UFC deal on back in Belator? I have very good. Stop. Stop. What's wrong with you? It's in high place.

Okay. I mean, one of the things I've been able to do very well over the years is keep good relationships with, you know, with everybody I do business with. And I think coming from, you know, coming from being a fighter and understanding the grind and understanding everything that goes along with it, I was able to take that and actually move on into, you know,

advising guys and guiding them and, you know, helping their careers out for the best. And one of the things is, you know, where what makes me different than other, other managers would be that, you know, since I've been there and done that, I don't have to negotiate from a statistical standpoint, you know? I've been there, done that. It cuts out a lot of the bullshit, and I think, you know, the promoters really dig it. You know, I fought for Scott, I fought for Dana,

a really close relationship with both of them, and at the end of the day, it's just easy to get things done. How many fights is this for, this contract? Sorry, guys. This is three fights. Okay. Is Rampage still there, or did he leave? I left. He left the building, actually.

You left? I heard him say to someone. I got five minutes. What, you're giving you five more minutes? That's it, Rampage? That's all we get? I left. Well, I'm just moving to a new place and the guys are drilling holes upstairs and putting up TVs. I'm getting a TV over my tub so I can just soak in the hot tub at the trainer, you know. Oh, yeah. Going to some heavy train. I need to get my body prepared, baby. Wait, this is in your new house that you're joining us from right now?

This is a train in the house. Oh, I like it. So how are things going? Because last time you were... Sorry, go ahead. Go ahead. Last time you were on the show, you were talking about some of the issues of your house and your foreign management. Is that getting all cleared up?

Yeah, that's all cleared up. That's all done. Okay. Yeah. I know you're, I know you're, you know, you're adjourned this and I'm a day. Damn you knows it. Well, yes. I mean, like I said, it's my best feature.

That's right. Well, this is very exciting. Now, I'm told through the grapevine, correct me if I'm wrong, that you will return in January in Englewood. Is that true? In Englewood? Up to no good. That sounds true.

January and England. Yeah, that sounds good. That sounds good. And I heard your fighting Chal Sunnan. I see. I don't know who I'm fighting, but I'm going to take. you right now, I would not like to

fight any wrestlers my first fight back. I just fought a leg hump and wrestler. Why would Bellator want to put me against another wrestler right off the back? Honestly, I would say that that wouldn't be a matchup that I would

be looking forward to. And I would be, I would be upset coming into the Beteltoa contract first off the back and then giving me a wrestler, to be honest. like who wants to see me fighting out of the wrestle why wouldn't a promoter

have a guy like me who loves a stand and bang and you know saying have an exciting fight why would a promoter constantly want to keep putting me with wrestlers you have been very open and adamant about this in the past but you are part of the tournament correct yeah I think so of those guys in the tournament is there one that really

interests you that you would want to you know have the first round matchup against? I don't care. As long as he's not a long as he's not like a guy who's like the, you know, strictly wrestle. I don't care who I fight, honestly.

I just think that I just think that makes for a boring matchup. A guy who likes to strike against a guy who likes to you know, stand strictly wrestle. I just think that's a boring matchup anytime. I was a fight promoter

and I had a guy in my roster that was like me. That's the last thing that I would do was put them against a wrestler unless I had to, unless it was for a belt or something, you know. Around a year ago, I talked to you. What's that? How you figure my first match up is chess on it? How do I figure? Yeah, how do I know that?

Well, like you said, I'm nosy, so I try to find things out. But I heard it wasn't done deal. But I heard it wasn't a done deal. That's why I was asking you if that was the offer that you were. I don't know. I don't know. I've heard rumors, but I told my manager that I'm not looking forward to fighting Chal Sunday.

I just, I just fought a leg-hump and wrestler. Why don't I want to go and fight another fighter that's strictly known for wrestling? Like, what, what, you know, what, you know, I don't think, I don't think the, I don't think the fans. deserve that. Around a year ago, I had you on the show and you talked about how maybe it would be the end of your career, like you maybe just had enough.

How did you turn the corner and say, you know what, I want to sign a new deal and get into tournament and all this stuff? How did you regain your love for the sport? Well, like I said, a year ago, listen, I'm trying to tell you, like a lot of times, promoters do is after love out of the sport. but then sometimes you just sometimes you don't know it's actually your manager that's creating

the problem but now you know what I got I got a better manager and I'll tell you one thing you just you just shit it on my fucking day with this chair son and shit no no no I didn't say it's a done deal

I was asking you I wanted to see if it was true or not this is what I had heard I had hurt Fador and Mere yeah I don't know I don't know I don't know shit listen I didn't even know about the damn tournament, to be honest. Really?

Until I resigned my agreement. Yeah, then I see it all over the damn social media is a damn tournament. I'll fuck, here we go with this shit. But, you know, I don't care. I'm a fighter. You know, I used to like fighting in the Grand Prix. I don't care about tournaments and shit, but I'm just saying, I didn't know.

So you probably know more to me, but I'm not looking forward to fight in Chessonner, like, first round in the damn tournament. That's all I'm saying. I fight anybody. My job is a fight, but, you know, I want to fight that. I'm going to be excited about it. I want to fight somebody that's going to, you know, be a, you know what I'm saying,

full of martialists. I don't, like, a lot of fans out there don't understand what I say about fighting wrestlers. I don't care about fighting people that wrestles and stuff like that. I like to fight people who fight. Like the, you know what I'm saying? When you go and you step them to the cage,

you know what I'm saying? You're standing up on your feet. And that's what the fight started. I don't like to fight people. That's the first thing they do, just go right away and try to, just keep you on your back, like, from the word go, you know what I'm saying? It's just a boring fight for me.

Like, I'll fight those type of fights. You know what I'm saying? I win or those type of fights and I lose. So that's not an issue, but, you know what I'm saying? It's just a boring fight. And I think the only person that really loses in that situation are the fans. Because then I have to fight defensively the whole time and, like, you know, get up off my back. And, you know, then I can, like, unload and unleash punishment like I want to.

I got to keep my opponent from, you know, taking me down to the ground. And the fans lose. And then, you know what I'm saying? A lot of fans are ignorant. Then they look at me like, oh, that was a boring fight. Like, don't look at me. Look at the guy who kept trying to hug me and wrestle my legs and kiss my knees and shit. By the way, Rampage, speaking of hugging and kissing and everything, I tuned into your Twitch stream recently.

And I saw that you were streaming a date that you had with a lovely Maria. But then the stream cut out. Mariah. Mariah, sorry. Yeah. Right. How's she doing? I don't know.

I don't know. She's doing, okay? That app, that app I text you about it. That was a nightmare. I was streaming off a second hand app, and then I switched over to like the actual Twitch app, and then it went, it went great. I ended up getting drunk that night, so I didn't smash.

I got really drunk. Okay. And I thought I was going to smash that night, so I got, I was drinking soju. and Mariah and I, we got so drunk that when we came back to my house, we both passed right out. I actually didn't smash.

How are things going with her now? We're great friends. Okay. Just friends. Yeah, we're great. We're great. Yeah, we're just friends. But at least you're cordial talking.

Yeah, we're cordial talking. You know, we're friendly. She helped me put some stuff together over here and everything, and we're good. It's good to have you back, to have her back in your corner as you start this new chapter. I think that that's a sign of good things to come.

Well, we would be like further along that relationship if you hadn't broken me up though, so you broke us up. I see you, you know, you're forgiven. You're trying to put us back together and everything, but, you know, everything would be good if you hadn't broke us up. By the way, was she the girl in that video? With Nick Diaz?

What video? With Nick Diaz? No. That's not her? No, she wasn't a girl in that video. That's not her. Who is that? That's none of your business.

That's not her. That's none of your business. What's up with you and Nick? I don't know, man. Nick, Nick on some crazy shit, man. He was drunk in Vegas. I was drunk in Vegas, and I guess he was trying to pay me back for something I did when he was a kid.

Now, I don't remember. I don't remember none of that what he's talking about. Oh, when you were a kid? When he was a kid? When he was a kid. He was a kid. I don't remember. What's he accusing you of?

He said I went to Burger King and hit on one of his potential girlfriend or something. I don't remember it. I hit on, I hit on girls, but that didn't sound like me. I don't ask no girl, what's your style, doggy style. I don't know, let me stop lie. that do kind of something like you didn't do. Yeah, but I don't remember it, though. I don't remember it.

And I think Nick Diaz should forgive me for something that I don't remember. Not a guy you want to have, you know, on his bad side. You don't want him to be upset at you, I would imagine. Who, Nick Diaz? Yeah. I ain't worried about Nick Diaz. I'm twice as high. I got to worry about Nick.

Okay. Have you seen this? How much we... What are we... What are we weighing these days? You are noses. Don't worry about my... I'm a heavyweight now, so... Don't just know I'm under the motherfuckett-weight class.

Motherfucker, under the weight limit. That's all you need to worry about. You're done with 205? I'm a big... Who knows, man? Who knows? Who knows? But for now, heavy. I like heavy weight.

Yeah. Wait, wait, I like, I like not, wait. I like it. As long as you get it, you'll be good with under 265 though, right? Oh, fuck yeah. I'm way on 265 right now. I just want to. You think I'm lying?

No, no, no, I just, you know. Why's that funny? Because sometimes I feel like when someone goes up a weight class, they kind of let themselves go and they're like, oh, I'll be good. And then it just gets bigger and bigger and bigger. That's what she said The funny thing about this tournament, by the way You have a history with a lot of people in the tournament

I know, huh? I've fought a couple people in the tournament Ryan Bader, you have a history You didn't like that fight. King Mo, you're kind of done with him, right? He's tired of that. Matt Mitreone, you have a history with him. Well, we was on the tough show together.

Yeah. And I'm friends with Fado. Fado is actually my favorite fighter of all time this is a yeah I didn't know that yeah

so a lot of that you didn't know yeah after all these years yeah fado yeah fado's my favorite fighter so

you know that that would be that would be quite an awkward matchup if I had to fight him you know fighting your favorite

fighter of all time would you not want that there's a tournament is a tournament No, I wouldn't I would never like sign a deal like where I had to fight Fedor. Oh wow.

I was getting paid like $10 million. I would then 10 million dollars. I'd fight my mom. Wow. So you'd actually turn it. What if you make it to the finals and Fader is there? What are you going to do?

It's a tournament then. That's the only way, right? Oh, okay. All right. Yeah, I wouldn't sign no battle agreement. Like, you know what I had to fight Fader unless it was for like

who would get money and then I'm like all right let's do it fade out of the six guys or the seven guys in the tournament is there one that you would like to fight first I don't care I just like I said as long as it's on a wrestler I just prefer I prefer not to fight a wrestler first

I would prefer By the way you know Why don't you Hey why don't the promoters put the wrestlers Against the wrestlers Why not do that? Cancel them out

And put the strikers against the strikers Yeah Put the strikers against the strikers Like, we need to do a poll. Like, and mixed martial arts, what do the fans rather see? Would they rather see, like, guys go at it or guys, like, game planning? Like, I want to know. What do, what do MMA fans like to see?

I don't know. I'm not in touch with the MMA fans anymore. Because back in my day, when I first got into MMA, I got to MMA for a reason, because we put two men in a cage or a ring and the best man won, you know what I'm saying? We didn't game plan it to the T. We didn't go out there and hook on each other. We went out there and fall. Do you ever watch M.MA?

Do you sit down on a Saturday and watch the fights? Like last week, MSG, UFC. Like, do you ever make a night out of it? No, I only watch it. Some of my friends are fighting or something. Okay. If I have time. Did you see this clip of Connor jumping into the cage?

Did you see that from the Bell Tour show on Friday? Yeah, I started on Instagram What do you think of that? I didn't think nothing of it. It looks like Cona McGregor. Okay, because you're a fan of his, right? Yeah, I like Carter McGregor. I think Colmogra is good for the story.

I think that they look like that was either one of his teammates or his boyfriend or something. You know, that was he seemed pretty excited about that guy winning. Yeah. You've been there before, right? I mean, supporting a friend who's fighting.

You want him to win? Yeah. Yeah. That's how I get when like Congo, well, I don't get like that. I don't jump in a cage and go straight to the bottom of the, you know, that's that. Mount position. Whatever.

What's the position? What was it? Missionary. Yeah. I don't do that. But I get excited with my teammates win, but it don't get sexual. It was flying guard It was almost like flying guard

That's what That's how much I'm talking about to It's a guard Flying guard Yeah I don't go straight to the guard position When my When my teammates win

But hey Conner Gregors That's his business Outside of fighting By the rampage Before I let you go What else are we working on You always have so many projects

You know Reality shows, Twitch So much going on in your life Movies What could you tell us about? Yeah I like I like

I like doing stuff I don't know what's wrong man I guess that's good I've been in Jim and I like doing stuff you know I that's who I am but I don't think I can probably tell you is that I got a beat movie coming out

December 12 called good cops bad cops with Michael John White and and um and um Patrick Kill Patrick and a couple of other

um great actors and I'm starting to produce my own reality show. I shot a Cizzeril. Oh. And I think what is my first time that's attempting to produce my own reality show. It is MMA-based.

And what's it about? I'm sure if I can, I think, okay, I can't. Oh, come on, Tiki. Well, that's no fun. Yeah. It's really, it's really, it's really, it's. It's really brand new, but I'm going to tell you, I'm going to tell you this. It is a good concept.

And as soon as I can tell you about it, I just, I just say you off record. I'll take you and tell you off record, but as soon as I can. But it's really, it's really new, so I don't think I can say much about it. But I think it's going to be a hit because we pitched it to six people and five people bided on it right away. Wow. You need me to do anything? I think it's, uh, uh,

I don't think, I don't know we need anything help yet, but I would tell you about, but it is MMA base and it's, and it's very, and it's very, it's a very, it's a very, it's a very, it's a very, it's a very, it's a very, it's a very, it's a very, it's a very, it's a very, it's a very, it's a very would be put in the same category, but it's nothing like that. I wanted to see, like, a reality show, you and Mariah, just trying to get back on track. you know, once lovers, now friends, going back, you know what I mean? Because everyone can relate to that. No, man, they don't mess up a bad thing with my other chickens. Oh.

Now, Mariah, like, you know, when we broke up, you know what I'm saying? She, you know what I said? You know, I broke up with Mariah because she probably can find somebody better than me. I like my freedom. I'm an alpha. And Mariah probably want to get married one day with a guy. who's only one to be with her. You know, I like my freedom.

So, you know, I like being friends with Mariah. I like that. So, you know, I never, I never, like, settle down and marry Mariah. So it's probably the best thing for her if we're friends. By the way, you just said you broke up with her. That's not the same story you've been telling me for two years. Yeah, I had to break up with her because she started crying. Doing your damn thing.

Oh, yeah. You had to cut the cord. Yeah. You made a cry. You asked me, are you in love with Brian? Come on, man. You can't ask no man, no shit like that right in front of the girl. If he ain't in love?

Will you ever settle down, though? Will you ever just settle on one and just, you know, kind of go? I've done that. I've been there. I've been there, and I've done that. I'm being honest. I normally don't like American women. I just don't mesh well with them.

I went to Japan, and I found me a Japanese woman, and she was a descended up summeride. I thought I had like the, you know, the perfect wife and everything. And as soon as we got married, she changed. And then my mom, my sister came to America trying to change her. I'm like, God damn. You know, she was like very submissive. She took care of everything.

When I came home from the gym, my bath water was ready, she gave me a bath. She put my clothes on. My food was ready. She'll brush my teeth in my hands and sore. That's a perfect woman. Perfect woman. As soon as I got married, she changed. I was like, man, you know what I'm saying?

It don't matter where you go. Ain't matter where you go on this globe, you know what I'm saying? Then she was trying to take, then she was trying to take half my money. I'm like, man, fuck this. So I probably won't get married again, but, you know, I never say never. If I fall in love, you know what I could. But, you know, I have met this one girl. Oh.

I have met this one girl. And she is very special to me. I really like her. I'm just getting to know so I don't know I have met this one girl Wow this is big This is huge news

What's her name? I'm not saying Her motherfucking name You ain't know nothing About this girl Wow Can I ask you a question though No

I ain't let you mess up This thing This Just one question You ain't know One question about her What Do you love her

What? I just met her I just matter. You ain't, you ain't, no, you ain't messing up this relationship. Era, Errahuanan, you don't cost me a million dollars. No. A great girlfriend.

Stop it. This shit. Okay. Where does she live? Your interview. Where does she live? I'm not telling you shit. You ain't learned, you ain't doing shit.

Okay. Is she there? Okay. My barber's here. No, my barber's here. I got to get my hair cut. Okay, all right. Can I ask Tiki one question before I let you go?

Can I just ask Tiki one question? you get a barber who comes to your house you don't know none the problem what's up man that's a barber right there we doing a cut or what wow

straight to the house I haven't even met this shit I haven't asked me any questions okay I wish I could get my barbers come to my house no I just wanted to ask you Tiki you're starting

you're transitioning now what have you learned from being a fighter to go into a manager do you feel like is this the future as far as you know if I'm a fighter

do I want to be represented by you because you know what it's like to be on the other side of the fence I think you could just talk to the people that I've worked with and that I currently work with and ask them what kind of job I did for them and they'll be more than happy to tell you. But if you're asking, the question you're asking is, is this the segue that all fighters should do? I don't know. I don't think that every fighter is capable of doing what I can do.

I know the things I can do have been through the experiences that I've had. you know and it's and it's helped I've been around for a long time and one of the things that I never do is I never bring you know any relationships right I take pride in that

you know who do you represent something take it to the bank who do you represent now who's part of the stable I have a few guys uh quite a check down go

I have a a adult or lightweight that's pretty promising Steve Bezola I work with a lot of as far as and different managers on sponsorships. Some of those guys, I mean, Roy Nelson. Oh, wow.

He's one of the other guys that I work with. So, you know, the rosters is slowly growing. Like I just, you know, more of a boutique style management. The management company's name is Arsenal Sports Agency. Yeah. What are you doing with that chair? Oh, okay. And, uh, I was like, what is he doing with the chair?

know. But it's, you know, it's fairly new. Okay. And it's what I love doing, you know. I have so many times in my life and, you know, in the past 10 years, I've just handed over millions of dollars relationships instead of, you know, just doing it myself. Yeah. Well, I wish you the best, man. Congratulations on getting the rampage deal done. Keep us posted on your progress on future science. Finings, future news, and thanks for setting this up. Thanks for getting Rampage. I know sometimes he's somewhat reluctant to speak. So it's always an honor to have him on the program.

I always love talking to him. Because you, you end my relationships and you get me sued and shit. And you knows it. I love you. I love you, Rampage. You know I love you. You got me sued. And you cost me one of, you cost me one.

That girl was really good of sex. Who is this? Mariah. She was really good at sex. man you cost me a lot of sex he's never letting you down for this one uh if you need to me there if you need to me there rampage i would run from new york to the oc just to help you that's the i don't need you for sex area i need it to hurry i need to hurry i hope you don't need him for sex no i don't need area for sex that's that's you cost me a lot of sex and you cost me a million

a lot too area that's why i'm reluctant to interview since i have you now how do you plan to make amends? I thought we made amends. I got them back on the horn. I got them back talking to each other. I thought we're good. Do you want to write them a check? You have a pen in your hand.

I do. You can see that. A check for what? What do I need to write a check for? Just paying. Pay me back for the million dollars you do. You got me suit. You got me suit.

You got me to get me to make a million dollars and definitely. Ariel makes money now. I feel like we're regressing here as far as our relationship is concerned. So it's a good time to maybe say, All the best to you guys. Congratulations. And we'll see you in January. How about that? Or maybe we could talk beforehand. That'd be nice. How about that? You said, catch him outside. Oh, yes, that's right. Thanks, Ariel. Thank you, Tiki. Congrats to you guys. All right. There he is. Tiki Goson, new manager for one, Rampage Jackson and Rampage Jackson, who's back at Bellator. Who would have thunk it? Okay. Let's transition now. Big story this past week. As we talked about at top of the show, Frankie Edgar, of UFC 218. Max Holloway in. So it's Max Holloway versus, excuse me, Max Holloway in, Joseo

in. So it's Max Holloway versus Josealdo two, rematch of a fight that we just saw in June. And the fans really wanted to see, at least the ones in my bubble online, wanted to see Cub Swanson in that fight. Cub Swanson is booked to fight December 9th against Brian Ortega in what is currently the last fight on his UFC contract. Very interesting scenario. One wonders if he had more fights on the contract, if he would have been plugged in to that title fight, never had a. UFC title fight before in just a few weeks. So I wanted to talk to Cove about this. He is kind enough to be joining us on the phone.

Cubb, are you there? Yeah, I'm here. Thank you for joining us, Cub. I appreciate the time. I recall when the news came out about Frankie, you posted a gif that one that everyone uses about the guy who was like, whoa. So when you saw this, when you saw this news,

did you think that you would be called? Did you think that you would be the next man up? Oh, yeah. You know, it was between me and Frankie, and then Frankie got it, and I was just, you know, it was a tough pill to swallow, and, you know, I got over it. And I thought for sure, if anybody wouldn't pull out of a fight, it would be him because I think he's a kind of guy that would, you know, fight through a torn, you know, knee or anything. But, you know, I guess he has a fracture in his face or something, I'm not sure. And that's something that you can't fight through. So I was shocked when I found out that he was pulling out.

And then I was like, wow, this is going to happen. You know, I had such an amazing camp. I helped T.J. train for his fight. I'm over here at Jackson. And now I'm ahead of schedule. This is just too perfect. And, you know, I was trying to get a whole of the UFC, let him know. And they told me that they had a, they're trying to figure it all out.

It's kind of madness. And then they told me that they were going to give it to all though. Okay. So you did actually research. out to the UFC and say that you're willing to step in? Yeah, yeah, of course. Did they ever say that you're in consideration, that you're one of the guys we're looking at right now,

that we're thinking about this, did they give you any kind of glimmer of hope that you were in the running here? Oh, yeah. The thing that, you know, I was kind of explained that there's a lot of options that they had. And so, so one, them picking, although it makes sense, you know, if they would have to,

pulled me, would have created a lot of shuffling, which, you know, is tough. But I, you know, I was hearing they were throwing, you know, other names in the mix like, like Brian Ortega and Darren Elkins. And, and I was like, if that would happen, I would have flipped out, you know. I mean, I was already kind of upset, but that that would have been too much. As I said at the top of the interview, you have one fight left on your deal, right? That hasn't changed. correct? Correct. Do you think that you didn't get this title fight because you only have one fight left and they can't risk you winning the belt, becoming champion and then being a free agent?

Well, that was never going to be an issue because I knew and they know that the fight wouldn't happen unless we made a deal, which I'm sure we could have made a deal. Okay. But that wasn't even offered. I haven't been offered a new deal since all of this happened. And Dana did say that he'd like to try to work something out, sit down and talk, you know, after the fight. And, you know, no matter what happens, he said he wants to keep me around. But, you know, we could have came to terms before and made this fight happen. They know that.

Since the lowball fight, have you had contract negotiations with them? Yeah. And I deal with the matchmaker. I didn't deal with Dana directly. I never have. I've always just done it with Sean. And, you know, they made me a good offer, you know, comparatively to what a lot of guys make.

And I just, I explained to them that, hey, you know, I'm getting on the later side of my career. I'm never been doing better. I have a family now. And it's like if I'm going to start concentrating on, like, retirement and setting myself up, so I'm not left with nothing. at the end of the day.

I should be getting, you know, paid more. And I'd like to, the money that I have coming in, I'm investing. You know, I'm doing all the right things. I'm not, like, blowing money. I'm not that guy. And it's like, man, if I had more money to work with, I could really set myself up. So that's what I'm fighting for.

So once you said that to them, where did things go? Did they say, all right, you know, let's fight out the deal. Let's have you fight out the deal. And then we'll cross that bridge. after your last fight, did you then say, you know what, if you're not going to get me a good deal before this last fight, then let's just test the waters, free agency-wise. Where did you leave it after you explain that to them?

Yeah, well, I mean, it was a combination of the pay, you know, wanting to get taken care of, and then a combination of opportunity. So I'm going to get paid the most if I fight for a title or hold a title. You know, that's when all the, you know, the big opportunities come. But I haven't had that opportunity. So, you know, I wanted to fight out of my contract only to, you know, see what other, you know, companies were going to offer me and be able to show the UFC like, look, I'm worth this. You know, come on, step it up because I want to fight in UFC.

I love it. But I also want to be taking care of and being paid well I'm worth. And, you know, show that I'm appreciated. I like that, you know, I'm old school. And, you know, I'm looking back at all the people who have gotten title fights, you know, like Chad Mendes got multiple. Frank Edgar's gotten multiple. All those got multiple.

Korean Zobbi got one out of nowhere. You know, Llamis has got one. You know, all the people at the top have all gotten them. And when Max took forever Max to get one, I was very vocal about him deserving a title fight. So I just don't see why in 10 years with the company, I couldn't have gotten one. I feel like maybe they just don't.

think that highly of me. Have you expressed that to them? Did they say anything back? Yeah, yeah, I've expressed that to them. And then it's always, you know, just a conversation and, uh, of giving me all the reasons why not. And like what are they saying? They were like the reasons why you haven't been given.

Oh, it's timing or there's a lot of things. There's a lot of factors and, you know, it's just, it's never going to be a straight up answer. you know. Considering you didn't get the title shot here, that they didn't try to make a deal to make this fight happen for 218. Has this changed your stance

about wanting to stick around? I mean, it's very hard to see like, you know, Dana told me that they want to make me happy. They want to, you know, they want to keep me around. He was very genuine about it when he said it. I just kind of

find it hard to think that's going to happen, you know, considering the circumstances. I mean, they could have made me happy really quick. And then they went a different route. So, yeah, like I said, I didn't even want to talk about all this kind of stuff, but I feel like I kind of have to to give it any kind of chance of being reconciled. And, you know, I do have a fight, you know, on December 9th and against, you know, a great up-and-comer, Brian Ortega. So once I was, you know, we'll talk about this, we'll get it all out there,

and then I'll be focusing on my fight again. So all this happening this past week, you know, somewhat of an emotional rollercoaster, has it felt like a distraction from the fight that you originally had, December 9th, which is still on against Ortega and Fresno? Only for a split second, because I talked to them, and then I kind of accepted it. Everybody around me was like, man, they're going to give it to you. I know it and I just kept saying, nah, I'm not.

They're not going to give it to me. I should know it. It's too familiar. I know what it feels like to be in the situation and just not get it. So I just, I kind of switched my mind frame and all my train sessions where like, look, no adjustments, keep the same guy. Because I know, I know what's going to happen already. I ran a poll this morning just a couple hours ago at like around 1115, East. time, so like four hours ago, asking who the UFC should have put in this title fight,

already 14,000 people have voted, 48% voted in favor of you. Number two is Aldo at 39%. So it does seem like the fans were pulling for you. Did you get that impression as well online? Did you feel like a lot of people were pulling for you? Yeah, I did. And, man, I really appreciate that because that's been the biggest thing for me is getting the fans to kind of rally behind me. I've always said that if I'm not going to be that guy and that, you know, outspoken loudmouth that I don't really care for, if I can get the fans that really support me and back me up, then I wouldn't have to do that. And they did this time, and it's just, I think my fans are getting more upset than I am about this. And that makes it a little easier because I can appreciate that they see my pain and they feel it too.

And so now we have this situation where Aldo gets another shot against Max Holloway and you seem to take the high road, you tweet at him, but some people couldn't tell if you were being sarcastic or not. You said, congrats on getting another title shot. Were you being sarcastic? Were you, you know, sincerely. No, I'm being genuine. Oh, you were, okay.

Because you're not the sarcastic type. We know you're always a very classy guy, but people were kind of debating in the mentions, you know, your mood, you know, what you were trying to really say with that tweet. No, I mean, I was hurt at the time. And, you know, I've always said that I wanted to be myself, you know, when I continued, I decided to continue fighting and be open. And honestly, my feelings were hurt, honestly. And, but I wanted to give all though, you know, a little shout out and say,

congrats. And because we all, we all feel like we deserve it. We all train really hard. We all make sacrifices at the top. So I was just saying, congrats. sincerely. Your feelings hurt because you weren't considered, because you weren't even, you know, in the discussion.

Is that accurate? No, because I wasn't a discussion. It's just that I didn't get it. And it's just a lot of, you know, being, feeling up at the top, like, man, I'm going to get the chance to fight for the title, you know, and then, but not get it. It's like almost, but not enough, you know. So, and then it frustrates me,

because I don't even read that much social media anymore, because I've just learned over the years, but like people saying that I'm not fighting top opponents, I have never, I don't pick opponents to UFC, tell me who I fight, and I'm like, okay, the Artem Lobo fight, Dana called and asked me to take that fight. I took the fight. You know, the Duhot Choy fight, I was a huge underdog.

He was like a top prospect, you know, like all these fights, they're asking me to take, I take them, and then some of the, the fans are saying, well, I'm not fighting top competition. I'm like, okay. What do I say about that? After that tweet, Max Holloway actually responded to you and wrote, Keep Pushing, Brother, go do with all your friends, know you can do,

and bring Dana Silverback so they can't deny you. I'll see you again at the top. Did you see that tweet? And if so, what was your reaction when you saw them right back to you? Yeah, I saw it. And I thought that was really cool. I thought it was classy. and I appreciate it because I know that he recognizes

that I'm up there and that I deserve it and I think if it was his choice that they would have taken me over Aldo and I actually was when they told me they were going to go with Aldo I was still in the back of my head going there's a chance they may say no and unless they make them a good deal

because I don't think they were interested in that fight yes I actually heard the saying that he was pushing for you to get the fight. I heard some fans say to me, well, you know, Cubs was defeated by Holloway a couple years ago in New Jersey. What is the difference for those that may not know between that Cubs Swanson and the one who's on the winning streak now? You know, that was before I was working with a sports psychologist,

and I really let the politics of the sport, which is kind of a position now, where I didn't know how to block some things out. And when I went into the fight, I was carrying so much in with me. And I really thought that I was better than Max everywhere. So I thought that I could just go in there and figure it out. I didn't really have a good, you know, set game plan that I like to have in my mind when I just start going. And he beat me up.

And not only that, I broke my hand in the first round. I broke my jaw in the second round, and I fought them for three rounds, and I gave it my all. And, you know, after that, I took a year off. I ended up working with sports psychologists and just learning on how to, you know, channel things and, you know, block certain things out and focus on the most important thing, and the most important thing is having a perfect performance. And I've been on a winning streak ever since. So, yeah, I did lose to them two and a half years ago, but Aldo,

just lost to him. So what's the difference? Do you think Holloway beats him again in December? I think so. I think he started a little slow against Aldo the first time. Yeah. And then once he kind of figured Aldo out, he just, you know, he was on point. And so I don't see, I don't see much of a different fight. What are the chances in your mind that the fight on December 9th is your last in the UFC? I mean, it's a possibility.

I really hope not. But I have to assume that, you know, that it's a possibility because I know that I'm worth, you know, a lot. And I know my fans know that. I know the UFC knows that. But I got a new family. You know, I got a beautiful little daughter, a girlfriend, Kanda at home. So my goal is still to be the best version of myself. and to, you know, be financially secure when I retire.

So I don't want to be forced to retire when at a certain point or have to keep fighting longer than I'd like because financially I'd like to be able to make a good amount and say, you know what, when I want to step away, I can do it on my own terms because that's just who I am. By the way, you're in Albuquerquee right now, right? Yes. But your family is back home in California? Yes.

How difficult is that for you, especially being a new dad? I mean, it's tough. I was adjusting to living at home with a new daughter and starting to train and doing all that. And it was working out great. She's awesome. She sleeps through the night and lets us both sleep. So she's been pretty awesome. And having to get away from that.

it's something that I have to do because I need time to become that killer cub. I need to be a killer when I go in there and I need time to focus before a fight. I take this very seriously and I always have for 10 years, you know. And it's painful to be away from them. I miss them a lot, FaceTiming them a bunch. But, you know, I need this to be ready. Last thing for you, Cub, and again, thank you for talking about this. I know you probably would rather just focus on the fight on December 9th,

but if everything goes to plan against Ortega, a great young fight or undefeated, fantastic fight, you win that fight in Fresno. Is part of the condition of resigning with the UFC a title fight? Because one would think after you beat him, there's really no other fight. I mean, you could keep fighting these top guys, but I think a lot of people would like to see you get that title fight. In fact, not just saying it because you're here,

I was pulling for you. I was hoping that they'd go in that direction just because I feel like we saw the Aldo fight recently and you've improved a lot and it just felt like a fresh matchup. And so I'm wondering if you only resign with the UFC if you're guaranteed a title shot in your next fight if all goes to plan on December 9th.

Yeah, that would definitely have to be, you know, part of the terms. It'd be guaranteed title fight and guaranteed good money. That's the only way and I'm sure they know that by now. But I'm in the position now where I have to go out there and be spectacular on December 9th. So that's my main motivation.

And I best believe it's going to happen. Looking forward to it. Again, thank you very much, Cub. Sorry, it didn't work out. You'll be fighting the following week and, you know, a chance to make a statement was hoping to see that you got the fight. And I know a lot of fans are disappointed as well. But thank you for coming on and talking about it. I really appreciate it.

Thanks for giving me a chance to get my voice out there And you know, at all my fans You know, just make sure you watch my fight December 9th Because I know they're going to want to see viewership up And they're going to ask me if I deserve a title fight They're going to want to see the numbers on the fight So if all my fans are watching, I appreciate it Thank you, Cupp. Best of luck to you guys

All right, thank you There he is, Cups Swanson Hard to find a class your guy in the biz and in the sport and I think a lot of fans based on my poll were pulling for him to get it as I said I think some fans are maybe a little aldoed out of course aldo is the greatest of all time at 1.45 and there's there's nothing wrong with seeing him back in the title fight but this felt like a bit of a fresh matchup for holloway you know a chance to defend the belt against someone not named aldo and maybe aldo fights lamas and then they meet in the next fight or edgar comes back

who knows it was a nice opportunity for swanson but that's the biz big spot for him on 9th, we'll see what happens there, a lot riding for him going into that fight against Brian Ortega. Okay, let's move along to our next guest. Always love having McKenzie Dern on the program, and this time, she comes bearing gifts. She has some news to break, so let us not waste any time. Let's go to the magic of Skype and welcome back Ms. McKenzie Dern to the program. Mackenzie, how are you? Hi, I'm good. How are you? I'm doing great. Well, there's a lot going on in your life, as always. Four and O, you want to fight since last time we spoke. You defeat him, Andy Poe. Great performance.

knocked her down, submitted her, great stuff, but some news here. So let's, like I said, not waste any time. What do you got for us? What's the news? So I schedule the next fight. I'm going to fight again. So hopefully I can go to 5 and O. And this time will be with Invicta on December 8th.

So I'm really excited about it. It'll be on the UFC fight pass, you know. So I think like it's just going to keep growing. I think it's like the next step. So I'm really excited. And they will be at 115 again. So we're going to go to make that that way cut, you know? Oh my.

Okay. Wow, there's a lot here. And do you have an opponent for this fight in Invicta? Your first fight for Invicta? Yeah, I do. Her name is Kylie Medeiros. She's from Brazil, but I think she lives in the U.S. And I know she fought Angela Hill, I think, for the title of Invicta.

So she's like a title challenger before, you know. So she has a lot of experience, you know, and I'm really excited. I think, like, our goal is like to show that. We're getting ready for the UFC, you know, so I think if I can come out with the win on this, we'll really show like, okay, I'm ready for the next. Now, why did you leave LFA? Was your contract done with them? No, most of my contracts have been like one-fight contracts, you know.

I think we just keep trying to take each fight as a go. Always open to whatever comes, you know, like if I had a fight in Japan or an offer in Brazil or wherever, you know. So every fight is just one-fight contract, you know. So now, Jessinvicta seemed to be the best opportunity. We kind of wanted to have like a, not a hard opponent, but like a more challenge, you know. So we kind of want to like or like LFA title fight or like to go to something that, you know, fight against one who's fought for a title before. So Invicta gave us that opportunity.

And I wanted to get another fight in, go straight into like a camp again, you know. So Invicta seemed to be the best opportunity. And of course, to be on the UFC fight pass, you know. I've been on Access TV, so it's great. So I think it's good to get even more different fans and things like that. So it was a good opportunity, and we took the opportunity now. So after your fight in LFA, when you defeated Mandy Polk, did Invicta reach out to you and say, we want you? Because you always kind of felt like a great fit for Invicta.

Did they say we want you or did you guys, your management team, Danny Rubinstein, one of the best in the business. Now, second big story he's been a part of today on the show. Did he reach out to Invicta and try to make the fight happen? I'm not 100% sure about this fight. I know Invicta has shown some interest in having me on their shows and like of course we've been interested in doing it, but just money-wise and things like that. Timing for when, what schedule and stuff, like when would be good fight, LFA was the better option up until now.

But so then he called me, you know, he said like, hey, Invicta, December 8th, you know, was between like December 8th and December 15th. and we went to separate. So, you know, like, it's going to be hard for me to make 115. Of course, everyone knows, like, how it's the hard thing. So I told him, like, man, going through like Thanksgiving, it's already like so hard. You have to go, like, through, you know, I don't have to, like, wait until January to make 115. It's like Christmas, Thanksgiving, New Year's, like, let's do this.

And try and just go through one holiday and not like five holidays. So your last fight was 125. I said after the fight, I'd love to see you stay at 125. You look great. You dropped your opponent. why are you doing this to yourself? Why are you going back down to 115? I think just, I mean, for example, like in the in Ultimate Fighter, the Tough House, one of the finalists, Cesar Yu Banks.

I know her from Jiu-Zitsu, you know. She's a Jitza. We fought multiple times in J-J-J-2. And, I mean, she's been through J-J-J-Tito, like middle heavyweight, you know, like four categories above me, you know? And even like we have Lauren Murphy that trains with me and the UFC. Like, we have so many girls that are so much bigger. And I think even on my fight, I felt good. I was strong, but, I mean, you could tell, like, my opponent was, like, bigger than me and everything.

So, like, we're really thinking that I think 115, like, size-wise, height, reach, all these things, you know, is the best for me. And that's the category we would like to go to the UFC, you know. So, I mean, to get there in the UFC at 115, I have to make it outside of the 115, you know. So that's really why we're going to try to make that division. I think, like, when I get it, I'll be strong. Are you going to work with any of these famous nutritionists for this camp to make it an easy cut for you? No. Okay.

All right. All right. Do you feel like there's a lot of pressure? Like this is your last chance to prove to people that you can do this? Yeah, for sure. I definitely feel like this is like a big pressure. Like mostly the weight cut, but also too, just with my phone. And, you know, she's done like a challenge title against Angelyn Hill, who's in the UFC.

she did the title for Invicta you know so I think like this is going to be one of my biggest opponents yet you know from what I know she's like good at everything you know like I don't know if she's like a great at one specific thing you know like I come from Jitiazzi so like that's my biggest thing I don't know if she's like has one great thing but from when I know she's like

really just all around good at everything so I think this is going to be like the biggest challenge for me so far and of course like the way you know so I really feel like all the eyes are me you know like let's get this down. You know, it's like kind of one of the last opportunities to be able to do this. So I don't want to mess it up.

By the way, were you happy with your performance against Mandy Polk? You know, again, I mentioned that I thought that your striking had improved. And then everyone jumps down my throat and says, ah, the striking's all good. Her chin is up. She's swinging wildly. Forgetting maybe that this is just your fourth professional fight, no amateur fight.

So it's not really fair to compare you to someone who's been doing this for years. But how about yourself assessing your own performance? Were you happy with it? Yeah, for sure. I'm happy, you know? Like, you always have things to get better. You never, like, 100%. Like, you know, I'm not Boy Mayweather, you know.

Right. You know, some, you know, crazy strike. I'm a jitza person. So always, like, even I wanted to get like a knockout, but my straight, like, reaction was to go to the choke, you know? So, of course, like, I see lots of things that I need to get better. but I feel like it's getting way better from my very first fight

that I barely moved I didn't believe my hand knocked her down and I was like man like me and the girls that I train with all the time they beat me up all the time so it's like me it was kind of like my turn you know so it's really really good and like to see that it's kind of like working

you know like a lot of the things that my coach Eddie is teaching me I was able to do in the fight so that's what what's like the biggest improvement like to listen what the coach is saying and to be able to do it in the fight you know not like freeze up and everything So I think like the biggest thing is like to bite your mouth protector, you know, and like kind of not be scared of the punch, you know, like you have to commit.

Whenever I feel like I'm not like committing, then that's like when I was getting punched the most, you know. So I'm getting like less scared of the punches and moving and trying to get better. So I'm happy overall. And the fact that you're coming back so quickly, does that mean we're putting jiu-jitsu on hold and focusing solely on MMA now? For sure, it's less jihitsu now, you know? I can't confirm anything for 2018,

but I don't have any plans so far for 2018. My only thing I'm thinking about of 2018 would be like, I don't know, like a super fight. Actually, like I did get offered a super fight in New York on December 9th, you know, but I couldn't do it because of my MMA fight, you know? So definitely for sure, MME is more the focus right now. Okay. And do you only want to stick around for one fight in Invicta,

or do you want to do a couple more as far as your time, because you had once said maybe five fights and then think about the UFC, so what are you thinking now? Yeah, if I can make the way and win this fight, like win it good, you know, not so bad, I would like to make that leap to the UFC. Oh, wow.

Oh, wow. Okay, so one and done, and then you're ready. Let's see, I hope so. Okay, and is the UFC on board with this? Well, I have to talk to Danny. I can't see why not. I can't see why not. All right. Well, the next step takes place on December 8th. Invicta FC on UFC on UFC Fight Pass.

Mackenzie Dern making her Invicted debut against Kylie Medeiros, as she said, five and one fought for the strawweight belt against Angela Hill, certainly a step up in competition. I am looking forward to it, and it's an interesting time for women's MMA, certainly for the straw weights and the fly weights with the ultimate fighter. And I'll get into that because that is a part of women's week on UFC Fight Pass. I'll run down the whole lineup, but I won't make you stick around for that. So thank you very much, McKenzie, for coming on the show, breaking the news, informing us. And best of luck to you in your Invicta debut, can't wait for it.

And, of course, before the fight, good luck making 115. We're all pulling for you and hopefully it goes very easy, smoothly, and without any hiccups. Yes, thank you so much, Ariel. For the best. Thanks for having. All right. Thank you so much. There she is.

McKenzie Dern stopping by the First Lady of Brazilian Jiu-Situ, making her in Victor debut. So what is Women's Week on UFC FightPass? Well, December 6th marks the five-year anniversary since Ronda Rousey became the first ever female champion of the UFC. To mark the occasion,

UFC Fight Pass will be presenting a week celebrating the best of women in martial arts. That includes MMA, kickboxing, and submission grappling. Over 12 hours of exclusive live action, originals and premieres featuring Misha

Tate, Chris Cyborg, Michelle Waterson, Ronda Rousey, Rose Numa Yunus, Yawanna, Enoch, Jacek, Gina Carrano, and many more. Now, as far as live action is concerned, they're going to have five shows across three different sports. How about this? Friday, December 1st, fight past prelims for the Ultimate Fighter. Finale will feature female fighters from this past season of the Ultimate Fighter. Of course, they can't announce those fights just yet because the season isn't over. December 2nd, Glory Kickboxing World Bantamoy title fight. Tiffany Van Suss

against Anisa Mexin. That is for the World Bantamway title in Glory kickboxing. Then, UFC 217, the following night in Detroit, fight past prelims

will feature female fighters. Sunday, December 3rd, EBI 14 in Austin, Texas will feature a four-woman submission-only tournament. And then Friday, December 8th,

Invicta FC-26 in Kansas City, the Invicta Straway title will be on the line. Jennifer May of course in that fight, but you just found out McKenzie Dern is fighting Kylie Madero's big step up in competition for her. That is all taking place on UFC Fight Pass. Women's Week on UFC Fight Pass.

I love it. UFC Fight Pass from December 1st to December 8th celebrating the women of combat sports, of martial arts with MMA events, kickboxing events, and grappling events. How about that? Thank you very much to McKenzie Dern.

Thank you very much to the great Danny Rubenstein for making that happen as well. So little news for you, courtesy of McKenzie Dern, courtesy of Jack Swagger. It has been a fun day, my friends. But there is much more. There is much more. In around 20 minutes or so, we're going to be joined by the point guard for the Charlotte Hornets. Yes, the Charlotte Hornets of the National Basketball Association. His name is Michael Carter Williams, a former.

Syracuse Orange. There's my audit of the orange right over there, as you can see. He is now on the Hornets, a former NBA rookie of the year. He won the rookie of the year as a member of the Philadelphia 76 years. Also played for the Chicago Bulls, the Milwaukee Bucks, and now, as I said, the Charlotte Hornets. But why you care about him on this program? He is a gigantic MMA fan. Just go on his Twitter.

The guy's talking about random MMA shows all the time. Huge fan. Love talking to sports stars who are big fans. we had Darren Williams on recently. Mike Miller, we've had this from time to time, and now we'll have MCW on the program in 20 minutes. Also in 40 minutes, we're going to be joined by Jimmy Rivera to talk about the Dominic Cruz situation,

Cruz pulling out of their fight at UFC 219 with the broken arm, and now he has left opponent list, but everyone is gunning for him. Al Jermaine Sterling, making a case on Twitter, and of course Marlon Marais, after defeating John Dodson on Saturday night and close fight in Norfolk, Virginia,

went on the mic and didn't just call out Jimmy Rivera. That wasn't a call out. That was an impassioned plea. That was like him, you know, stopping short of getting down on his knees and begging for a chance to fight Jimmy Rivera on December 30th. Jimmy Rivera seems to want to fight T.J. Dilleshaw. Not sure if that's in the card. So where does he go from here? What is he going to do?

I mean, of course, he's one of the top contenders at 135. But what are his options? So we'll talk to Jimmy Rivera about that. And around 40 minutes in around an hour, we'll have Rick's pick. and we'll hear from Mr. New York, Rick, about some of the highlights on social media from the week that was, and then following that,

we'll answer your questions and comments that you have sent us using the hashtag the MMR. I am still sick. Last week when we had GSP in studio, I had to swallow many coughs. I wanted to cough. I was sick. I'm still feeling under the weather.

And I had some coughs that I wanted to unleash. and while GSP was sitting in the chair right in front of me, I didn't want to cough in his face, obviously. I didn't want to cough in the middle of the interview, so I had to swallow said coughs, and that is happening. Maybe it's a product of, I don't know, speaking too much or pushing my voice. I don't know what it is, but I'm feeling it coming back.

This time there's no one sitting in front of me. We had that earlier with Jack Swagger, so I don't have to worry as much. it is a tough thing when you want to cough and someone is sitting in front of you and you try to swallow the cough so that they don't see you coughing in their face. It's just not a good look when you're hosting a show. All right. So in a matter of seconds, we're going to be joined by Michael Bisping.

You heard the news last week. So much, I mean, this is just, when I heard the news initially that Michael Bisping was replacing Anderson Silva in Shanghai against Kelvin Gassel. At first I thought that someone was just, you know, sometimes I feel like people are giving me information and want to trick me. And they're trying to find out if, if, if, if, if, if, you know, they're trying to see, you know, who's the mole or trying to trick me or make me look bad. Give me wrong information. And that's honestly what I thought when I was told this. No way. Michael Bisping, he just fought GSP. Just fought at MSG. That was an emotional roller coaster.

It was a tough fight, a bloody fight. He was dropped. He was submitted. Third round finish. You know the story. There's no way. There's no way he's coming back in, and fighting in China, in Shanghai against Kelvin Gasselm, why? On fight pass, this makes no sense. And then, of course, spoke to numerous people, confirmed it, and the story is in fact true. It's an amazing turn of events because Anderson Silva was supposed to be in this fight. He gets pulled on Friday, provisionally suspended by Usada, failed a drug test, according to Usada in late October. I think it was October 25th, to be exact. They have not told us what the substance is. And they haven't officially suspended him.

So there's a whole process here as we've come to learn. But, you know, this could potentially be his second infraction. Remember, after the Nick Diaz fight at UFC 183, he was suspended for a year, you know, claimed to be taking pills that would help him with his relations, if you will. And, well, the Nevada Athletic Commission did not really buy that one. So this could be his potential second infractors. action and it would be a massive blow to a guy who many still consider to be the greatest of all time. I don't for the record. For the record, I never did. Remember on the show versus I got into a bit of an

argument on the DailyLy line on the late Great versus network. I got into an argument with Dana White about this topic. I said that at the time, Fyodor Emilineko was the greatest of all time, was the pound-for-pound goat. I think that that was the discussion, pound-pound king. Dana was actually watching the segment in the studio and I could feel his eyes just sort of zeroing in on me and just like burning a hole through my chest and then we got into this argument and they recorded it and they posted it.

It was a very uncomfortable situation. But anyway, I never considered him. A second infraction would certainly, in my opinion, take him out of that discussion. I think it comes down to GSP and Demetrius Johnson at this point and it wasn't interesting. Just five days after GSP comes back and wins the belt after the four-year layoff that this happens,

Anderson-Silva. Now, he is owed due process. We don't want to convict him before he has a say. You'd like to believe that he's not guilty before proven innocent, that it's the opposite way. Sometimes these things stick with you, but let's hear from Anderson Silva first before, you know, piling it on further.

What does this do for his future, you know, late 40s? I still don't know why he came back. Remember he was on this show? the last interview that I think he did in English or Portuguese. Correct me if I'm wrong was him saying that if he doesn't fight in Rio for the interim belt that he was going to retire. Remember that? And then he just came back in Shanghai of all places.

So where does he go from here? That was part of the crazy week that was in the world of a May. And then 24 hours later we find out that Michael Bisping is in. What an unbelievable turn of events. an unbelievable turn of events and how about this Michael Bisping is joining us on the phone right now to talk about it all

I'm so thankful and grateful that he would take some time out of his day to talk to us Michael are you there yes I am how you doing Ariel you forgot did you forget about us Michael well I don't know if you know this yes you do know it just said but I've got another fight to prepare for

and I leave for a pletful Shanghai in a few days So I do apologize, but I'm a very busy beat at the moment. It's so great to hear from you, Michael. I can't tell you how happy I am to talk to you. Although I must say back in the day, you always used to make some time to join us via the magical Skype. And now I feel like the last few appearances,

you've kind of just said, you know what, I'm not going to go the extra mile. Take it or leave it. Phone call, that's it. If you don't like it, then stop bothering me. Is that accurate? No, not at all. One day, and I'm assuming this will be pretty soon,

we will have video calling technology in cars. But until that happens, Ariel, I can't help you. I mean, I could do a fair time on my phone, but I'm pretty sure I'll get arrested. So yeah, I'm here, I'm there, I'm everywhere, I'm driving there, I'm trying to spar, I did that, I'm going to rush back, I'm talking to you, I'm going to do my own podcast, believe you me, available on iTunes. As soon as I walk through the door, I just spoke to my wife, I told her what lunch to have ready for me, the moment I walk through the door so I can quickly eat it. And between all of this madness, I've got to get ready, I've got to do

interviews for some guys that I'm fighting next week. And in between that, I'm penciling you in, Ariel. So the worst you're looking for is thanks for making time. Not you're an asshole, why don't you do Skype anymore? Okay, let's not waste any more time then, because we have a lot to discuss.

You find out about Anderson Silva falling out of this fight getting provisionally suspended. Do you reach out to the UFC and ask for this, or did they reach out to you? I got home on Wednesday from New York. I went out on Friday with my wife on my in-laws who came in time to look after my little guy while the fight happened.

And yeah, we're driving along. We're listening to Sirius XM Rush in the MMA channel. And Luke Thomas is talking about the fact that Anderson Silver tested positive again and is out of the fight and that they're looking for a replacement. And I looked at my wife and I just said,

what do you think? Should I put my name for? She's like, what are you talking about? I'm like, I'll fight him. She's like, well, if you want to do it, do it. You know, she's kind of supportive. Because she knows.

I've been like, you know, I've been pretty pissed off. I mean, it's fine. You know, there's bigger problems in the world. But the fact that I lost that fight, you know, it bothers me. And I know I could,

if I had that fight 10 times again, I'd win 10 times. I know I would. But I lost. And, you know, all credit to George. And here we are. It's like a gift from the gods.

You know what I mean? I get a chance to fight again. I get a chance to exercise my demons. I get a chance to get back in the winning column. All good things. So, yeah, I text Dana. I said, listen, I know a guy that Paul last week who has no injuries. He can fight in Shanghai.

He takes back interesting. I text back very. 20 minutes later, he gave me a phone call. We agreed. some terms, we said we do it. Then I got a call from the legal department, say, Mike, we need to know that you're physically, you know, that you're medically cleared.

How do you feel? I said, listen, physically, I'm fine. Mentally, I'm wounded, you know, and the only thing that's going to make that right is that I'm able to fight again. You know, I'm emotionally and mentally scarred. Physically, I'm fine. So that was about it. Did you have to take any extra test or anything like that?

because you do have a medical suspension, correct? A 30-day suspension from New York? Yeah, yeah, no, no, we dealt with all that. So there was a little bit of testing. I'd say, you know, MRI and whatnot checked up. And, yeah, the New York Commission was satisfied. And there we go. We're all good.

So when you say that, and it's so fascinating to hear you say this, you're emotionally wounded. And by the way, I haven't had a chance to talk to you, but just credit to you, especially hearing that, how you handled the loss, showing up to the press conference, smile on your face, taking it all in stride. I know deep down that you were hurting.

but you handled it with class and, you know, really a lot of credit should go your way for doing that. Could you talk, like right now, do you feel like you're emotionally spent? Like, are you up for the training in the next week or so, the flight? To physically go, like, if the fight was tonight, I'm sure you could do it. But to just go through the next two weeks as you're still trying to process losing your belt, isn't that, you know, kind of like a conflicting range of emotions that you have to deal with? It is. It is. and I was just speaking about that with Jason Perilla.

I just parted a few rounds. Felt good. Did some rounds on the pad. You know, my condition is there, but I just, I just, I was, you know, emotionally spent, you know, and I said, listen, I'll be good, I'll be good. Because I've got a million things. This morning has been very stressful. I've been having to balance a lot of things. I've got to do an interview for the UFC, you know, pre-fire and this and that.

I've got to do that. I've got to do this. I've got to get my visa. I've got to, I've got some green card issues. I need to take care of so I can get back into the country when I leave it. You know, I've got a million and one things that are dragging me away from the fight in order for me to do it. So I've been stressed out and I'm like, listen, let me take care of all these little things and I'll be good. Right now, it's not the fight that's stressing me out.

The fight, that's easy. It's all these external little minor things like visas. And, you know, I'm applying for a green card. And whilst you're applying, you can't leave the country unless you have what's called at an advanced parole. card. I have one of them, but my car got broken into in Maui, so I don't have that. And getting a replacement isn't easy, so I've got to fly to Las Vegas. I've got to have an appointment at the embassy. I've got all these fucking little things to do. Once I take care of all that, I'll be good. But, you know, the main thing is, you know, listen, I respect Kelvin Gasselin. I really

do. I've got nothing against him or so wherever it seems like a nice man and he's a great fire. But this isn't about firing Kelvin. This is for me. I want to go out there and, you know, Get back in the wing column. Fight for the best of my ability and then do what I do best and what I love to do. Have you had a chance to watch the GSP fight, Mike? No, no.

I don't want to watch it. You're done? You'll never watch it? I mean, I will at some point, but, you know, I don't need to see it. I know what happened. You know, first round, you know, the plan in the first round always was to be elusive.

That's what we plan, just to stay away from his state downs and then pour it on as a fight. I went on he, um, second round and landing some good

right hands. He got me down, but I got back up. When he got me down, I, um, I, I was chopping him up

with elbows from underneath, which I planned on doing. And then I thought to myself, um, even though I'm landing good elbows, you're still on the floor underneath. So it's time to get back up. As soon as I thought that I was able to get back to my feet,

landing some good right hands and wobbled him. I felt good, you know, and then he's in the third round in a scramble. He called me with a left foot. They put me down, you know? Good face.

him. It was a heavy show. It was good. He put me down. He followed it up and he got a redneck show. So really, I don't really need to watch it again. You know what to me? I know what happened. It was only last week eight days ago. So, you know, it is what it is. You know, you move on. I mean, God bless George. Good for him.

Well done. And, you know, lived to fight another day, which I will do with Shanghai next week. Did he surprise you? Like, did you think never in a million years, four-year layoff, middleweight, that he could look like that? you know

everyone knows George is good everyone knows George is good but you know that is in the past I've said my peace God bless him I'm gonna sit here and you know

blow his trumpet the whole time Mario for crying out loud I said it's all done better spend a night what more do you want from me Jesus Christ okay

okay it's time to move on not time to move on fair enough Fair enough. What do you say? You know, Larry Merchant once said, Michael, that, you know, all fighters go out on their back, right? Like, sometimes they need to be safe from themselves.

And I saw a lot of fighters say, you know what? I love Bisphing. Everyone loves you. Everyone respects you. But he should take some time off. This isn't the right thing for him to do. What do you say to those people? Your fans, I've seen some of them say, I love the guy.

I don't want to see him get hurt. I want to see him just take a break who are thinking that maybe this is a little too soon for you coming off that fight. Yeah, well, See, that's where I'm different from most people. I'm not saying that I think I'm special. But this, see, I'm, I'm an old-school type of guy. You know, I mean, I do actually love to fight. I enjoy it, you know, and physically I'm fine.

I am, you know, but I'm letting bed the other night. And I'm, you know, emotionally checked out. My wife's like, what's up? I'm like, what do you think of? You know, I'm pissed off. Pissed off. I worked my house. I've been that fine.

It didn't go to flat. You know, and then this came out of the blue. And as I say, I mean, I can't not take it. I can't not take it. You know, I mean, I know Kelvin's a tough fight. So I'm not taking him widely far from it. But this isn't about him. This is about me.

This is a fight for me to get back into winning ways. Exercise my demons. Therapy in some ways, if you will. I appreciate people's concern. I'm fine. You know, I mean, that fight was easy. You know what I mean? Yeah, I lost it.

You know, he won't buy a submission. But, you know, I sport. three times a week in preparation for a fight. So I sparred once against GSP, I'm getting three weeks off, you know what I mean? So I spot three times a week when I'm getting ready for a fight

and the sparring sessions are tough. You know, yeah, all right, you know, he got me, he choked me out, but I'm totally fine. At the end of the fight at 217, I thought maybe you'd get on the mic and say, you know what, enough's enough, just based on your comments going into it,

of course you didn't say that. What are the chances of fall goes to plan on the 25th that you say, like, I can't imagine Michael Bissping retiring in Shanghai of all places with all due respect to Shanghai. Is there a chance that this is your last fight, though? No, no, God bless Shanghai. You know, I mean, I'm sure it's a great place, and the people are very, very nice. But I have no, you know, as I say, I'm nothing to get to Chinese. There are a lovely race of people, and I've never been to China. Why is my retirement fight going to be in China? You know, the fight card in London, I would love to be

on that. I'd love to be a part of that and say thank you to the British people for supporting me and having my last fight there. This just came up. This is just like one of those crazy circumstances, you know, and it just fell into my lap and I'm like, this is a sign, I'm going to take this. You know, of course, you know, I'm a

prize fire. Listen, you know, when you're a world champion you know, you're going to be strategic, you're going to take the right fight, you're going to try and make as much money, you know. That was great. I was the world champion, but I'm not anymore. You know, so now I go back to being a prize fire and fight for money.

And then here we go. I've got a chance to fight a good opponent, a ranked opponent, who is a good up-and-comer, he's strong, he's a good wrestler. And I get to prove to myself and to my family. And I get to get my hand raised. I get another chance. And I get another check, you know? So as far as I'm concerned, it's a win-win all round.

And by the way, does that mean that you want your last fight to be in England, or you're just saying you'd like to fight in England as well? I definitely want my last fight to be in England. I've always wanted my last fight to be in England. The one in March, you want to be your last fight? Yeah, definitely. So that will be it, in March? Yeah, yeah, definitely.

And you're at peace with that? You feel good about that? Yeah, I'm at peace right now. I've been in peace for a long time, you know? Contrary to popular beliefs, and GSP saying and I'm an angry man. I'm a very happy man. But, you know,

it's time to move on and do something else for my life. I'm very proud of what I achieved in this sport and I'm not done yet. You know, that's why I want to fight Kelvin because I know I can do better than what I showed last week. So I'm taking this fight to, you know,

just, just, you're only as good as your last fight. And my last fight didn't go to plan. And I'm in shape. I'm on weight. I feel good. I've got no. injuries, so why wouldn't I?

You know, my last fight, yeah. I mean, I was planning on my last fight being in March. This one came out of the blue, so I guess I'm going to squeeze in one extra. That wasn't the plan, but the circumstances have put me in this situation. By the way, not trying to skip over, Kelvin, but do you have an opponent

in mind for your last fight? No idea. No idea. I'd be a fool to be even thinking about that. I'm pretty much focused on Kelvin Gasselin at the moment. Yeah. No, I can understand.

understand that. Are you going alone to China or is your family coming with you? No, I was hoping for my family to come with me. But it's not as simple as that. I mean, it's the last minute. We've all got to get green cards. Sorry, visa's part of me. And then, as I say, we've been applying for green cards for a long time now. And the process, you know, obviously with the state of the current political climate right now, things like that have been processed very, very slowly. So I've been approved, and it's what they call advanced parole.

status. And unless you have this special card, you can't go in and out of the country. I do have that card. But as I say, my car was broken into it, Maui, my wallet stolen. And that card was stolen. And to get another one is very, very difficult. It's not just a case of the reissue, another one, you have to do biometrics, you get your fingerprints tested. You're going to make sure I haven't been robbing banks in Iowa while I've been here. You know what I mean? So it's not that simple, it's a lengthy process. So I can get around that by an appointment, at an embassy,

and they'll give me a travel document, but for my family to do it, it's just too much stress in one week, you know? I have to say, one of the highlights of 2017 for me was right before you walked to the cage, you made a point to look for your family and give them all a kiss. I love that stuff.

That stuff makes me tear up. It was just for you to be the sort of cognizant of that moment, why did you feel the need to do that? Because you haven't done that all the time. you seek them out and do that? If you watch my fights closely, I always, every single time, it's not always, I always look for them, I always look for them and blow them a kiss every single time. This time you made a point to go and actually kiss them.

Well, no, they were there. They were there. They were right there. So, you know, I could have not. You know, I walked by passing. So, but yeah, no, I always, I always make a point, you know, looking for them. He's like giving them a wink and smile, Let them know we're all good. You know, when your kids are there, I want to put them at ease. I want them to know, listen, this is easy. You know, don't worry about me. Don't be concerned.

Whatever happens, win or lose, you know. I'm going to be back home with you, annoying you, telling you to tie to your bedrooms or trying to be funny and failing miserably. So everything will be business as usual in about 25 minutes. Who's Lucas picking in this fight? I'm not sure. I'll ask him, the little shit. He's totally screwed it up last time.

I know, I know. Hopefully he picks COVID. I don't know. I mean, we'll see. We'll see. The son of a gun. But, uh, yeah. By the way, Michael, you have been to China before.

You know this, right? You know, Macau isn't actually mainland China, though. Okay, well, mainland. That's right. Well, mainland. You didn't say mainland. Very, very different set of political circumstance. Yeah, I don't need a visa.

There's all kinds. It's different. It's not actually mainland China. Fair enough. Yes. I'm not sure if it's actually part of China. So, yeah. Okay, fair enough.

Last thing for you, Mike. I mean, this is an amazing story. You, like, I mean, it's very rare for someone to come off a loss and a title loss and to come back two weeks later and all this stuff. Is this part of the stuff that you kind of live for? Like, at the end of the day, this kind of feels like it kind of encapsulated. capsulates your entire career. And in a weird way, as you sort of alluded to earlier,

this feels like the perfect remedy for how you were feeling you were feeling down. All of a sudden, do you feel already like it's working, like just having this fight in two weeks? Like, do you feel that medicine kicking in and that you're already starting to get over it just because as a fighter you're allowed to get back on the horse so quickly? Absolutely. Listen, you know, I mean, I finished my fire. I went home and I'm sat there and a day passes.

and, you know, I mean, I've got some projects. I've got a couple of movies. They're lined up for next year and, you know, I've got some things going on, but I'm like, I'm like, what do I do with myself? I'm bored out of my head already. It's been two days, I mean, of course, you know, I've got a nice check, we've got money in the bank,

life's good, but, you know, a man needs a purpose. Of course, I have three beautiful children and a beautiful wife, and, you know, I'm there for them, but still, I need a purpose in life. I've got to be working towards something. And I don't know, I just don't know, I just don't avoid.

Oh boy, I mean, I was world champion and that was great. I no longer have that, you know, and I'm like, all right, well, that's all well and good. You know, even though I was world champion, it never lasts forever. So, you know, it was always destined to come to an end. So it's not like I'm being a baby about that. I accept and I acknowledge that and I'm very mature about that. It's great. You know, I mean, I had it.

A lot of people don't achieve that. I'm proud of that, and that's great. And it was always destined to end at some point. So I'm fine with that. But I'm like, what do I do with myself now? you know all right i'll do another fight at some point but uh what am i doing where am i heading what am i next going to do what i what do i want to do with my life and then boom all of a sudden here we are i've got another mission i'm flying out to shine high and i find some young top

10 powerhouse puncher wrestler and uh it's got a bit bit of excitement back in my life i live for this year i do i mean you know and it is i guess it does encapsulate or embody my entire career you know I mean, when you're a champion, you're going to be more strategic, but I've always, you know, I'm old school, I will fight anyone anywhere. I'm not trying to sound like a tough guy. Maybe I'm an idiot. But that's about it. And, you know, I do it for my family. I get a chance to go out there, compete in the sport I love. Fly to Shanghai. Hopefully kick some ass. You know, that's it. It's exciting stuff, and I get paid handsomely for him. So, you know, I'm privileged. And I lied. In a word or two, what do you say about Anderson Silva, Michael? You've been very outspoken about this, this, this, topic and him in particular.

The symbolism is rich here. What do you say about this story now? I mean, you know, I mean, listen, I don't want to kick a man while he's down. But, I mean, everybody, there's nothing, there's no surprise here. There's no shock. I mean, I was, I mean, I was convinced anyway. I mean, when before, I mean, listen, he was cheating his whole career. I always said a man at that age does it all over, after the career that Anderson Silver had,

he doesn't just start taking steroids at whatever. age he was when he fought Nick Diaz. You just don't do that. The logic doesn't stack up. And then because he's the great Anderson-Silver and because he came out with a bunch of fucking great explanations and, you know,

Viagra and then it was this, that it was that, then he was recovering from the leg and, you know, everybody seemed to give him a path and he got away with it and he got shrugged under the carpet. And then here we are, lo and behold again, no doubt he's going to come out and say it was a tainted supplement and his team are going to split the heads together

and they're going to come out with some crap or they'll say it was kangaroo meat or horse meat or whatever the hell do you want to say. They'll come out with summer and some people will believe him, some people won't. Just like Yo Romero, the matter is

the majority of people in this sport are taking steroids and they should all be ashamed of themselves. If you're a man enough to fight, listen, I've done everything I've done through. Blood, sweat and tears, martial arts training. I've done martial arts since I was eight years old.

You know, I've done it that old-fashioned way. It's simple. You can tell, when you look at my body, you look at other people's bodies, you can tell that I don't take steroids. You know, and unfortunately, it's a scourge of the sport. Chairman Anderson's over. That's about it.

Michael, jokes aside at the top, I can't possibly have more respect and admiration for you. You, I think, embody what we all love about MMA. Kudos to you, my man. Well done on handling the loss like you did. Well done on taking this fight, as crazy as it is. well done for representing the sport in your country so well and good luck in this fight we will miss you when you're gone my man we will really miss you we will miss covering you

and talking about you so thank you for giving us a couple more opportunities to talk about you and i wish you the best of luck and health in this fight on november 25th and thank you for doing this i know you're very busy i appreciate it uh more than you know you're good arriel thank you it's always a pleasure talking to you know i appreciate it as you say you know lots of things to be happy about i'm getting a chance to go out there and do it again uh i'm gonna find my ass up Fingers crossed, get the job done. And yeah, cheers. I hope you enjoyed the fight.

Talk to you soon. All right. Thank you, Michael. Safe travels to China. We will miss that man when he's gone. I don't care what anyone says. He is one of a kind and really, I mean, in my opinion, represents what we love so much about this sport.

What a story. Coming back, less than three weeks after his loss to GSP, he'll be fighting November 25th in China, in Shanghai against Kelvin Gassim. Who else but Michael Bisping takes that fight? unbelievable. All right. Speaking about loving this sport, our next guest is a huge fan of mixed martial arts. He just so happens to also be a former NBA rookie of the year.

He happens to be a former Syracuse Orange, like myself. He is a current member of the Charlotte Hornets. He is their point guard. I am so excited to welcome Michael Carter Williams to the show. You know I love the NBA and basketball just as much as MMA. So when the world's collide, there's nothing more exciting

for me. Let's bring in MCW right now to talk a little MMA. Michael, are you there? I'm here. I'm here. I'm here. How are you doing? I'm doing great. Wow, this is awesome. I don't think I've ever had another Syracuse Orange on the program, let alone one who actually played for the team and now in the NBA, so this is very exciting for me.

I really appreciate the time, especially as you're in the midst of the season here. Yeah, it's exciting for me, too, to be on the show. You know, you said you love NBA as much as MMA, and I'm kind of in the same boat. You know, I really love watching and, you know,

following all the fighters. So, thank you for having me on the show. You know, it's interesting because we have people on the program and you can tell right away, like when they're not involved in the sport, you can tell right away that some of them are just, you know, casual fans or they like Connor McGregor. But just going through your Twitter, like you're talking about Nunes Chfchenko in Winnipeg, excuse me, in Edmonton at UFC 215, and like random fights that are happening, not just the big ones. And so that to me says, all right, this guy knows what he's talking about. He's a true fan. When did you first start getting into MMA? man I started my you know my stepfather is really into everybody so um you know when I first started he um you know he introduced me to like the Gracie brothers like you know really old guys

who used to fight like you know obviously you know guys that you know really kind of made the sport and um so I started then and then you know I started watching a long time ago though like when it wasn't even you know that popular and then I just found love with it. So I just, you know, I keep up with as much as I can. I try to watch, you know, all the events. You know, I've been to, I've only been, believe it or not, I've only been to one event and it was in Boston just because I've just been so busy. But yeah, no, I like, you know, from the, you know, the big fights to the, you know, fights that may not, you know, the free fights on TV, you know, I try to catch all. So when you have spare time, you're watching MMA.

I'm watching MMA. I watched yesterday. was the other day the day before yesterday or yesterday either way but I watched the last event so I watch you know I watch all of them

and you know I and inboxing too but mostly MMMMH Which event did you attend in Boston I was when

Travis Brown front kicked ovary I can't remember and your eye That was a great card It was a great card It was. It was a really good card. It was really fun. August 17th, this is how big of a loser I am. August 17, 2003,

it was the first UFC on FS1 card. Chale Sunnan headlined against Shogun Hu on submitted him in the main event. Yeah. A guy named Connor McGregor was low on the card against Max Holloway and injured his knee on that card. Do you remember that? Yep. Wow. That is a great card.

Who's your favorite fighter? Who's the guy that you have to, I mean, you watch all the cards, but who's the guy that you, like, you find out that he's fighting, you've got to, you got to make time and watch him? That's a good question, man. I got a, I'm a huge fan of, you know, so many fighters. You know, I love to watch Dominic Cruz. I love to watch TJ.

I love to watch Connor fight. I think he brings, you know, I love watching the corner fight, and I also love watching his, you know, the whole, the press conference big. Yes. And, but, you know, I mean, I don't think I have. you know, one, you know, I don't think I have one. You know, I just love the sport. You know, I just love, you know, everybody, you know, everybody in it.

And I like to, you know, somehow to get involved, you know, one day. Oh, really? In what respect? Not doing it, but, you know, whether it's commentating about it, whether it's, you know, being on a show about it, I don't know. But I would, you know, that would be really fun. Wow. What about in like a business capacity, like a promoter thing like, or, or just, you know, gym owner. Would you like to do something like that?

Yeah, for sure. That's probably something that I would definitely look into. Did you know that Darren Williams owns an MMA gym in Dallas? I didn't know that. No, I didn't. Yeah, we got a chance to visit it and he's got some great fighters training

out of there. You mentioned Dominic Cruz. I saw on your Instagram that you actually met him or were you training with him over the summer? What was that all about? We put up a picture earlier. Yeah, it was a So I train at the Sports Science Lab and it's

he trained there GSP did a little bit of training there also and I work out with a you know a guy named Troy Lally he he actually trains it's not in sport

he's not with sports science lab he just uses the court there and it's like this like a six gym thing so I um you know I train basketball in there and then I trade with in the sports, you know, science lab in the weight room, and they do a lot of things that, you know, really help. You know, I had some knee issues, and, you know, they really helped me a lot.

Yeah, how are you, I know you just came back last week, and like you said, you were dealing with an injury, how are you feeling now? Do you feel like you're back to 100% or not yet? Yeah, you know, I'm feeling, I'm feeling really good. I'm probably not at 100 yet, but I'm getting close to there. Like I said, when I was, working at the sports hard time with a guy named Gavin. McMillan,

he did a, you know, he helped me out a lot. And so I'm getting there. It's coming. It's close. Last week, you were playing,

you got to actually share the court with the future NBA champion Christaps Porzingis. What is it like breathing in the same air as him? Could you tell us? Excuse me.

Said it one more time. Chris Staps. You were playing the Knicks. You were there in his presence, the unicorn. What's it like sharing the same space is the unicorn. I'm a big Knicks fan.

Yeah, he's a talented player. You know, he's obviously, you know, a special talent. He can do a lot of things on the court. He's just so calm. He's like 7.3. It's just so hard to stop. It's unbelievable. What a joy it is to watch him.

Do you do any sort of martial arts training? I know some players have that. Even Darren Williams told me he did some jiu-jitsu. And is it possible that could help you at all with your, you know, your cardio or anything? kind of training as far as your basketball career is concerned, or are they too different? I talk to Dominic Cruz about this a lot, and he tells me that just from watching, he says the hand movements can help a lot. I haven't tried. I haven't tried anything yet, because a lot of

things is like close quarter, like hand combat, like battles and stuff. And so I haven't done it yet, but it's probably something I will do. Have you ever done any kind of wrestling, jih Tzu boxing, anything like that? I've tried boxing, but not consistently. When I was over,

funny enough, I was over in the Philippines, this is when PJ Penn was supposed to fight. I can't remember who he was supposed to fight, but it was that car. I was over in the Philippines, and he was there. And I went to some MMAsian.

And we did like a, you know, a few moves, a few takedowns, a few submission moves. But that was the only thing I've done with, you know, MMA-wise. But I would like to, you know, I'd like to, you know, try J-Git-to, or, you know. Wait, you and B.J. Penn got the train together? No, no, he was just there. Oh, wow. That's, that's wild. Yeah, we were staying in the same hotel in the Philippines.

It was cool, though. Wow. Did you get to meet him? Yeah. Yep. Yeah, he was there to fight Ricardo Lamos, but then the card got canceled. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what it was, Ricardo Lamas, yeah.

I saw also on your Twitter, you watched UFC 217, you know, not saying that you're some like, you know, aficionato or historian, but was that the great, some people are saying greatest card of all time. For you, was that the greatest card that you've ever seen? Yeah, yep. It's the greatest card I've ever seen. Three new, three new champions on the same card. like something that we're never going to see again. Are you watching these cards alone, or do you have buddies who are also fans?

Yeah, no, I watch. I used to, I haven't played with too many MMA fans, but Dwight Howard is a big MMA fan. So him and I, we watch it together. So, yeah, I mean, I don't think that's that's the greatest card I think I've ever seen. were you pulling for a GSP to be Bisping or vice versa No yeah I was I was I wanted GSP to win

I really wanted to see a good fight It was actually weird I always you know do my predictions before the the USC event And it was the first time I was ever five or five in my prediction What? You picked all three of those Yep I picked all three of them Get out of here No one picked that you my I swear to you my little brother in a my stepfather thought I was crazy for not picking Joanna.

What? Yeah. Yep, my first time. My first time I've never been right on all. Why would you pick Rose over Yon? Like, what about Rose made you think that she was actually going to beat Yohanna, the first person to beat her? I thought Yowana was, you know, obviously she's very, very good. You know, I think that in her last couple of fights, she's been, she's been, she's been,

hit and it seemed like gradually she you know kind of got hit more and more sometimes she didn't but like I just felt like she she was taken you know um you know she was taking some hits and I thought rose had the uh you know the power to do what she did I mean obviously it's easy to say that now because yeah but that's generally you know what I thought I thought rose is was really like focused and composed throughout the whole um you know around her whole media Yeah. And, you know, I did take a chance, you know, obviously. But I thought, I know I just, I really thought Rose, you know,

if somebody could beat her, I thought it could be Rose. You know, I thought she had the right intangibles to, you know, to beat her. I love the idea of NBA Star rookie of the year sitting down and watching like a Rose Yawanna press conference and analyzing their stared-downs and stuff like that. It just seems so crazy to me, but maybe not. Did you hear that the UFC is coming to Charlotte? in January? Yeah.

Yeah, I'm definitely got to get there if we don't have it, if we're not playing away. You didn't check the schedule yet? I feel like that would be the first thing you did. I know, I know. I didn't. I'm slack it. Is there like a dream fight that you'd love to see?

Like, you know, obviously a lot of people want to see Connor fight, Tony Ferguson. Some want to see the Nate Diaz trilogy fight. Is there one that you're really pushing for? Is there one that you really want to see right now? I don't think right now I really wanted to see Connor and Kabid in Russia

I really wanted to see that fight I love it I just can imagine yeah but you know I think those would be two great fights you know I wish Nate would fight again whether it's Connor or somebody else you know I wish he would

you know I think yeah Tony versus Connor is going to be real good if, you know, they end up fighting. But, yeah, I mean, yeah, those two guys, you know, they're obviously, they're excellent, excellent fighters. Did you see this footage of Connor on Friday jumping into the Bellator cage? And did you see that? Yeah, DeLoth.

Yeah, DeLoss is mine a little bit, I think. Do you watch Bellator 2 or just the UFC? I watch UFC more, but I do watch some Bellator too. I like, I watched, oh, what's the guy's name? He's not in Bellator anymore. He actually just went to boxing. Mike, is it Michael? Oh, Michael Venom Page, MVP.

Yeah, yeah, Venom Page. Yeah, MVP, yeah. I've watched a couple of his fights. Is he still in Bellator or did he go like permanently boxing? No, no, no, he was actually on the show a couple weeks ago. No, he's still a part of Bellator and he might fight in December. They just kind of let him do this one thing he wanted to do it. But yeah, he's definitely still a part of Belator and we'll return.

He's great. He does crazy moves. He dances and everything. I know, I know. Yeah, I love watching him fight. Yeah, I definitely know more about the USC, and I'm starting to get into Bellator more. I like the young kid from Bellator.

I know he lost his first fight, but he won his second fight with a crazy knockout. Yeah, Aaron Pico. Wow. You're watching everything. Yeah. And it's funny because, like, like, UFC is like, obviously they have the repists, you know,

the best fighters, and they probably do, but, like, Bellator is, like, not as far as people behind, but as far behind as people think. Yeah. No, they're certainly, they're certainly making a push and signing some big names. Very recently, Roy McDonald, guys like that. By the way, I have some bad news. You're in Miami, the night of the UFC at Charlotte. Yes, yeah.

That's a bummer. Yeah, sorry. I kept one in the summertime. Yeah, it won't be a big card anyway. It's just a fight night. You won't miss out on. too much. By the way, I just curious, and I asked Darren this question when he was on the show a couple of months ago, you're part of a players association, correct? And there's a lot of great benefits for that.

I don't know how much you pay attention to this stuff, but there's been a lot of this talk in the news that the UFC fighters should try to unionize. I mean, they have a TV deal coming up, for example, and they make no money off the TV deal. You guys make, I mean, we saw what happened with the salary caps a couple years ago. Do you think that fighters should band together, or do you think that fighters should band together? think that this is too much of an individual sport that they can't they can't do that sort of thing? They absolutely should. I think it's crazy that they already don't have like a union. And it's hard, but like, come on, like, they put their lives on the line.

You know, every time they step in the ring, there's no reason why that their payouts are way different than they are now. And it's because they don't have a union. You know what I mean? that like, I, like, Dominique and I were talking about it. And, like, I was like, how, like, how don't you guys have a good enough union to where of you guys don't have health insurance or you guys don't have, you know, you guys don't get paid more, you know, like, to me, that's, to me, that's, like, beyond, like, beyond crazy.

And it, it's, like, it's going to need to take the top guys that the UFC cannot fight until they, like, until the payments are, you know, where they should be. and what their privileges are. It's going to take the Conner McGregor. It's going to take the GSP. You know, it's going to take the steep A's. You know, it's going to take those guys to hold out so that everybody else, you know, can get, you know, what they deserve.

Yeah. Do you see that happening, though, or do you think that this is too much of a selfish sport? Like, do you see a Connor being, you know, being the kind of guy who's like, eh, I'm going to sit out for the greater good of the future and the younger guys because they have to fight to get there and they make no money to get to the top and then once you get to the top you don't want to lose that money

you finally made it, you have to scratch your way up there. Yeah, I mean maybe, you know, who knows? I'm not going to say he would or wouldn't. He's made a bunch of money. He's made a bunch of money off the boy fight. Right. So, you know, maybe that's, you know, what it takes.

It definitely needs to be done. You know, you look at other sports as always talk of a lockout. So, you know, no, no. You never know there may be a UFC lockout. By the way, how often do you see Michael Jordan? Is he just around all the time? He's around sometimes.

He comes, you know, he pops his head in the practice or in the locker room. I know at the games he's there, so we too. Is that wild to just have the greatest of all time just walking around as your boss? Yeah, I mean, his daughter went to Syracuse with me, so, you know, a little bit there. So, yeah, it's still a shock to see him that he liked to look at him and know he's like the greatest player ever. Yeah.

Yeah. Is he forthcoming with advice? Is he like one of the, like, is he the kind of guy that's going to come up and talk to you and be very, you know, open with how you should be doing things? Um,

you know, I think he's just more of the like, he's just going to be there to kind of play, you know, his position. He doesn't want to, you know, he probably doesn't want to like make anybody nervous.

or, you know, because if he talks to you, then it's like, am I doing something wrong? Like, I don't know. I'm sure he gives, you know, guys compliments, you know, here and there, but, you know, I think he's more of, you know, just let you play your game type and just go out there and hoop. And just curious, I mean,

I know you've kind of bounced around a little bit. Do you feel like this is a stop for a while? Do you feel like you found a home here in Charlotte? I know it's early and everything, and you probably didn't envision, you know, after winning the rookie of the year it going like this, but do you feel like this is a place

that you can actually flourish and stick around? Yeah, you know, I can see it. I know it's going to take a little bit of time with me coming back on my injury and me getting in a groove again, but definitely, you know, I really like, you know, the guys on the team.

I love the coaches. You know, I think there's definitely a spot for me where I can, you know, help the team out. And now it's just, you know, putting that all the other. well I'm pulling for you man I actually was hoping that the Knicks were going to sign you

because they needed a point guard they still probably do need a point guard and I was hoping that that was going to happen but happy to see that you landed with the Hornets and more importantly happy to know that a fellow Syracuse guy is a big MMA fan your knowledge is great and it's a lot of fun to talk to you about it all you're always welcome here if you ever want to get if you don't have enough friends I want to talk to you

about MMA you can come on here and wax poetic and get it off your chest sounds good to me all right thank you Michael all the best to you and great success this upcoming season. I wish you nothing but the best. Thank you. Appreciate it.

All right, there he is. Michael Carter Williams, the point guard for the Charlotte Hornets, former rookie of the year, former Syracuse Orange, now doing his thing in, I believe the Queen City. They call Charlotte the Queen City.

I do believe that is called the Queen City. Unfortunately, he will not be attending the event there when the UFC comes to town in January, but he's a man who's able to, I mean, he went to an event in Boston. What a great event that was. Wow. First and only event.

UFC on FS1. Number one, what else was on that card? Uriah Faber, Getsal Katara, Chale against Shogun, Joe Lozahn was on the card, Travis and Overeem, Connor and Max Holloway. That was a good one.

That was a really good one. All right. Thank you very much to MCW for stopping by. One more guest to go. It has been a pack show, but I'm very curious. to hear what our next guest has to say. He got some bad news mid last week.

Found out that Dominic Cruz, big fight for him, big opponent for him, was out of his fight on December 19th. Did I say December 19th? No, December 30th, UFC 219 in Las Vegas. Very important fight in the Bantamweight Division. Now everyone wants to know what's happening with Jimmy Rivera.

Since that news came out, Al Jermaine Sterling has been campaigning for a fight against him. And then you saw on Saturday, if you watched the UFC event in Virginia, Marlon Moraises, as I said, around an hour ago, didn't just ask for this fight, didn't just call out Jimmy Rivera. That was an impassioned plea, almost like begging for this fight, a very emotional callout, if you will. And so that got me thinking, let's hear what Jimmy Rivera has to say about all this. He joins us now via the magic of Skype. There he is, Jimmy Rivera. Jimmy, how are you? I'm doing good, man. How are you doing? I'm doing great. So let's do you. So let's do you.

let's start at the beginning. What was your reaction when you found out that Dominic had to pull out of the fight? I was wondering what needy he hurt. And then we heard it was a foot or a leg. And then we heard actually from someone else that it was actually his arm, that he broke his arm. And I just, you know, I felt bad in a way that sucks because I've been there. I've been hurt. No one wants to be hurt. So I was like, I said, I hope, you know, obviously I hope he has a speed of recovery. I didn't put anything out on social media, but it is what it is. And then I got a line of people starting to say, I want to fight you or all this other social media publicity stuff. So it was very interesting to see and go through it. And it sucks away because it was going to

name the number one contender. And this was definitely going to be a definite. And I was looking forward to the fight to actually fight him as well. He's a legend in the sport. He's been around forever. it was definitely the next step and to help me get closer to the belt. Correct me if I'm wrong. You postponed your honeymoon to take this fight, correct? Yeah, I actually postponed my honeymoon twice. I went for Brian Carraway last year, then he got hurt,

and then postponed for this fight, we actually moved it to next year because this is something, you know, fighting this is something serious. You know, it's my second passion, something serious. You have to be there mentally and physically and taking a week off during Thanksgiving while I'm in fight camp was just not, you know, not smart, not right. So thank God I have a lovely wife that is always there to support me. And we moved our honeymoon again to next year in the beginning of year, but we have no idea what's going to happen now.

You know what the lesson here is never postpone your honeymoon? Yeah, I wish, huh? but it's not something that you know we factor in it happening you know we're assuming you know someone asked me the question beforehand what if cruise gets hurt i can't think the whole camp he's going to get hurt then i won't train right i won't prepare right so i'm like all right cruz is in we're going we're going to fight and then get in that text for my manager and say you know he called me and then he called me i said hey why is you call me don't tell me cruz is hurt and call him back and find out he just sucks.

And, you know, it's very emotional and sucks in a long run. And now it's like, all right, what's next? The great Lloyd Pearson of Balgian Group was the bearer of bad news. I'm sorry that he was the one to waste. Well, yeah, that's probably part of the job. So what do you want? Forget about the people who are calling you out. If you had your way right now, and I say to you, okay, what do you want as a result of this?

What's your perfect scenario? fighting TJ for the belt. And if someone says to you, well, you don't just get to skip the line. Not skip the line, but you were going to fight someone. Why should you get a title shot now? What's the response? My response is very simple. If Don got hurt, and I was like, I understand.

So I would say, all right, that Cody and I fight, and that helps Cody get back to title contendership. And I would fight him as a more contender, but he's hurt. So both Cody and Dom or her, so I automatically think that makes me number one contender. At the end of the day, I'm 5 and only UFC. No one's at my rank. And I'm on a 25 win streak. No one has that.

And I'm undefeated at 135. So my first two fights in my career were at 150 at a catch weight. And I learned the hard way. My second fight I lost by split decision. I learned a hard way that I had to cut weight. This is a, you know, going from amateur pro is a completely different thing. and I'm undefeated right now at 135. So I think the next and most reasonable is fighting T.J. for the belt,

and my credentials are there. I won three belts, defended three belts in three different organizations and vacating them. I'm in the UFC now. I'm 5 and 0. No one's on that winning streak. It makes the most sense. Did you or your management express this to the UFC? And if so, what did they say?

We said, you know, we want to, Lloyd said, said from Balanchier group, my manager said, we want TJ. You know what I mean? And I know TJ and DeBio Johnson were kind of going back, but now I'm seeing, you know, that the fight hasn't been talked about yet. It's been just, you know, Dana's talked a little bit about it, but it hasn't been offered. I see TJ trying to get the favorite fight. I see TJ really trying to get the money fight.

And, you know, I understand it a way, but in my scenario is that I've told people before, listen, I'm not in the UFC to make money. I'm in the UFC to fight for the belt. I can care less about the cash. I don't deal with it. I let my management deal with it. I'm in there to fight for the belt. Once I have the belt, then I have to defend against everybody in the division.

I know everybody's calling me out now. Everybody wants to fight me. And my response is just get in line. You know what I mean? I want to fight for the belt. And then after that, it's my duty to defend my belt, just like Dammitio Shonson did against everybody in the division. And that's one thing I definitely admire him, that he has defending his belt against everybody in his division, basically.

So it's like, you know, it's the next step. And I think it's, in my case, the smartest thing to do is fight for the belt. Did you watch the event on Saturday? And if so, did you see Marlon Marais's post-fight interview? I did. I didn't understand a lot what he said. All I heard was Jim Rivera,

so I assumed he was calling me out. His words were very mumble-jumbo and his accent. It's very hard. So I couldn't understand. everything. My wife even mentioned me, oh, he said he wanted a bonus in there. And I was like, I don't remember him saying any of that. Um, with what he said about something bad blood or someone asked me, I'm like, I have no idea what he's talking about at all. So, you don't know of any, because he seemed very emotional. Like this wasn't just your typical, he wanted nothing to do

with the Dotson fight. He didn't want to talk about it. He just wanted to look at the camera and speak to you and say December 30th. And again, it didn't feel like your typical call out, but you don't know why he's so emotional. why he feels like this is so personal? Nope, not at all. I mean, we were actually very cordial. We trained for a while while I was getting ready for the favorite fight because I went down and Nick Coton's to train with Frankie Ager.

I got to train with him for a long while. And after a while, me and Marlin started to sport more. It was less of me training with Frankie. And after that, we actually never trained again because the favorite fight went in. I won and I was out for a little while because of my eye. And then that was it. And then once Marlon got signed, I was like, all right, well,

there goes really good training. and so that's kind of done. But I have no idea. I have no idea from it. There's nothing else I can say besides he's going to kind of have to wait his turn because there's like five other guys that want to fight me too. So you watched the fight. What did you think of his performance against John Dodson?

Did you think that he won? Honestly, if I had to pick it out and this is being me neutral, I thought Dawson won the fight. He dropped him in the first round to second and third round. Like, they were pretty close rounds. really felt like Dots and land more shots. I haven't got to see the stats yet. I know

the judges saw what they saw, so, you know, they picked him, okay, he won. But I didn't think that, but again, I'm not a judge, and I'm not sure, because every judge is a little different. I'm not sure what they're trying to look at to get, you know, for a win. You know what I mean? Some judges are different.

No, takedowns are big points. But I feel like if you get a takedown, you have to do damage, otherwise it doesn't really, it doesn't do much. If you take someone down and they get back up, what did you do nothing now what's the history here with aljermaine sterling why does he want to fight you so so badly another one um honestly it just all these guys want to help want to fight me because like right now i'm at the gators if they beat jimmy rivera they are going to get a title shot you know i mean they're going to be like a number one contender they're going to be in the run and for that

belt and i understand listen it's a smart business move to to call me out and i completely understand and even was Raphael Osama, excuse me, Hafiel Sonson, even what he said, it's a smart business move. He fought TJ and beat him. T.J. beat him.

You know, the trilogy match, I completely understand. It's a very smart business move. With Sterling, it's just simple. I tried to fight him before he got in the UFC. Twice. I tried to fight him. Once I was in the UFC,

he said no. Now I'm in position that I'm doing better than him and he could, you know, if he fights me, he has a lot to gain from him. And now he wants to fight me. So it's just like one of those things, like, yep,

you got to get in line too, man. you're not the only one. Do you think that the UFC will give you this touch shot? Like honestly, do you believe that? Or is that what you want but are preparing for something else? I am just training right now and staying in shape. As far as the UFC goes, I don't know what they've said to other fighters, but my management has not been called and we haven't got any names for any replacements.

Okay. So as of right now, I'm not fighting December 30th. Oh, wow. Okay. But are you still preparing for December 30th or have you taken your foot on? off the gas. No, I'm still training. I took the foot a little bit off the gas because I'm not going to kill myself right now. I'm not having a fight, so I'm still training every day.

I'm not just, instead of me going 100% hard, I'm going like 80%. Okay. Do you want to stay on the card? I would love to stay on the card. I would love, but I have to do, you know, I actually, at the end of day, you know, this is the thing that becomes where you have to become, you know, step yourself away from being a fighter. and look at it more like a business because I run in business and I understand

how a business works. And when someone like, I got asked about, whoa, if T.J. and Demetius Johnson fight are you going to be mad at the UFC? I said, no,

it's a business at the end of day. They have to make money. It's a good money fight. I completely understand. I'm a business owner. I run a business. I know how it is. Like I said before,

I'm willing to work with UFC and figure out what's the next solution. But as of right now, I don't know what to do if I haven't heard back from them yet and I don't know what they're trying to offer. You know what I mean? Like I said, I'm not in them for the money.

When I sit down and get a name, I'm like, oh, yeah, I'll fight them. I'll fight them. I'll fight them. And then my management and my coaches and myself sit down and they put it in check. And like, listen, pros and cons, this is why you should. This is why you shouldn't. I think I want you to get more money, whatever. I'm like, all right, at the end of day, this is why I have these people surround me

because they're looking out for the best of me. Yeah. A fighter's mentality is a fighter's mentality. They want to always fight. but it just doesn't work like that. So I'm kind of in limbo right now and not sure what's going to happen next. And just curious, if they say to you,

we are going to do the TJ versus DJ fight, are you open to fighting other people? Yeah, I think I'd be open to fight other people. And I definitely would sit down and talk to them and see what options we could do and what works the best. But, you know, I am. I mean, I can't say no.

But I don't know what to, I got to see. what the options are, what they're going to offer, and what I get out of it, what I benefit out of it, you know? Right. Do you have a preference? I'm not looking for paycheck. Yeah. No, no, I think I don't have a preference. I think what makes them move sense who's doing really well is a songstouse if that happens. Because now you got Don Cody who are out for a little while, and I can see them fighting in the future for a grudge match. And, you know, I'm from there, I can see it sounds like fighting, but I'm not sure.

Again, I don't know what's going to happen. And just waiting for them to figure out what the next step is. That is a great call. He's won 10 of 11, his last loss. There's only loss of that stretch to T.J. Dillow shot. Just got his first knockout in 14 years. So I don't think anyone could accuse you of ducking anyone if you're calling out the guy who's on the best streak other than yourself in that division right now.

So that's certainly interesting. see if they offer you anything. By the way, just curious, did you, did you expect TJ to beat Cody at 217? Were you one who was thinking that he was going to win or were you surprised by that? I said I wanted DJ to win. Yeah. I, you know, at the end of the day, Cody on paper looked better than TJ. And I was surprised he got the nag. I just, I really think Cody might have been a little days or just didn't see the hook punch coming.

And that's what happens. You don't see the punch coming. He hit him right in the button. and he went down and that's it, that's all it takes. Were you pulling for TJ because you and Cody have a bit of a history as well? I have no idea what history we have. He said something on Instagram one time. I replied and he was, that's it, he stopped responding.

There's really no history with anybody in the division. I think maybe the most history, it might be Sterling. But even that, he's just not a worthy opponent to help me. Like a lot of the guys call me out are not going to get me closer to the belt. You know what are they going to benefit? What have they done that I haven't done yet? You know what I mean? Like, you know, no one's on a five-fight winning streak in the UFC.

No one's on a 20-fight winning streak in their career. No one's won three belts, defended and vacated in them. No one's undefeated at 135 in my division. So I don't know who has the credentials to really fight me besides the champ. And by the way, were you placed right next to Sterling at 217? Did you sit right next to him at the event? Yeah, my wife and I were walking down. I'm like, oh, look who's in front of us.

But then he actually got up. He even looked at us and didn't talk to us or anything like that and walked over to the other side. And I was like, wait, so a couple weeks ago, when I'm at the fights cornered one of the girls fighting, and you had a lot to say. And now, you know, I'm not. I had the fights and went with my wife because my wife wasn't there at the time.

She was down there to see actually watching the fights that time. You have nothing to say. So I thought it was kind of funny. My wife and I looked at the show, we just laughed. Okay. So no words exchanged. Yeah. Nothing.

Nothing. Okay. All right. Well, I'm sorry you guys are going through this. And I hope that you don't get a fight in January and then postpone your honeymoon one more time. Your wife deserves it. She deserves Wendy's. She deserves the honeymoons.

Let's go. Let's make this hat. Wendy's. Is that her favorite again? Is that the one? I'm going to the... No, it's McDonald's. McDonald's. Now she's actually vegan.

Oh, what? She's actually vegan now. What happened? In five months? She saw what the help on Netflix. Okay. And that just turned her around and she went completely vegan. Oh, my God.

And so I'm actually taking a little stop at the jewelry store this Friday to, you know, get her something nice because of all this is going on. Wait, and also because she's not giving you any meat for dinner anymore? Is that you're trying to get her back on the... Oh, no, no, no. Oh, you're good with it. I'm not going to vegan. I love my, you know, chicken and stuff like that. I love my meat.

That doesn't sound right. I love my chicken and stuff like that. I'm not going vegan. But she is completely vegan. It's funny. I let her be it is what is to believe or not, from learning from her, I'm like, there's a lot of stuff that you really can't eat. That's really unbelievable.

I wish you guys the best. Sorry this happened. Good luck with whatever happens. And for your sake, I hope you get that fight that you're looking for, the title fight. And please do keep us posted if you can. I'm curious to see how this plays out. I will do. I know you'll be texting me or text point, and I'll shoot your text back.

All right. Thank you, Jimmy. All the best. Thank you. Have a good one. All right. There is, Jimmy Rivera, looking for a fight. As of right now, no opponents, as you heard, on December 30.

UFC 219 and let's see what the UFC comes up with there. Also of course here we are November 13th and still no main event for UFC 219. Remember it was mid-September that they announced Ronda Rousey versus Amanda Nunes for the UFC 207 end of the year show and here we are November 11th and still no main event. Of course Jimmy Rivera and Dominic Cruz was in the main event. I'm told that they're working on a few things. Do they try to salvage Cyborg home? Homes manager, agent, I should say, said that it's dead. That certainly is main event worthy, in my opinion.

And then, of course, how about that bombshell from Mike Mazzuli, saying that the UFC told him that they were removing him from the December 30th card because of what happened at the Bellator show? We'd love to hear from the UFC about that one. That is interesting as well. So plenty going on, as always. I feel like we did a good job of recapping it all, but we do have more show left.

And by the way, the UFC is back this Saturday in Sydney, UFC Sydney. And that is the show headline by Fabrice O'Roodoom and Marcia Tabura. I was supposed to be Mark Hunt, of course. We know that whole story. And unfortunately, our friend Joanne Calderwood is out of that card.

So that's unfortunate news. It's not the greatest fight night of all time. We can talk about that towards the end of the show. but what I need you to do right now is this. If you're watching us on YouTube, I need you to slowly, after I'm done my little spiel here, minimize that. If you're watching us on Facebook,

I need you to minimize that. If you're watching us on MMATfighting.com, minimize that. What you need to do is go on Twitter and fire up the link that I've been tweeting. The name has kind of changed. There it is right there. If you're watching live.

Twitter.com slash mhmap fighting. That's where we'll be if you're watching us on a browser. If not, just go to my feed and click on the link because in a matter of seconds, we are going exclusively on Twitter and over on Twitter exclusively. We'll be doing Rickspicks. So you'll finally hear from New York, Rick, today, the best of the week that was as far as social media is concerned. And then we'll be answering your question. So plenty more show to come.

It's Ricks picks. Then it's your question. So much going on in the world of M.A. If you want to talk about the card in Virginia this past weekend, we can talk about that. if you want to talk about all the craziness from the past week. Cyborg Home, Wonder Boy Till, Dominic Cruz getting injured, Frankie Edgar getting injured, Rampage Resigning, GSP's future, the Belator heavyweight tournament, the Connor McGregor situation in Belator,

Anderson Silva, Michael Bisping, Max versus Jose II, Fadour versus Mir. What else you want to talk about? So much going on in the world of MMA. We'll talk about all that and more. That's on the back end. it's ricks picks. We call this whole little endeavor the MMA after hour.

It's exclusively on Twitter. And it starts right now. Ah, yes, the MMA after hour. So we are switching things up. We're giving our friends over at Twitter a little bonus this week. We're doing Ricks picks exclusively on Twitter on the MMA after hour. It's one of our favorite segments of the day. People just dream about this segment all week.

They look forward to it with great anticipation. So without further ado, my friends, it is time for Rick's Picks. Yes. Time to open up your ears and your mind. Yes. Look at those graphics. Hit me, hit me. Give it to me.

Give it to me good. Yeah. A little more movement. Move it or lose it. Yes. from the Vox studios in beautiful high quality stuff. Rick's picks, baby.

Woo! Yeah. Where's the reveal? Wait for it. Wait for it. Usually we go to the camera where New York Rick is on. Did something happen?

Is this what happened in the map around Diego Sanchez fight? Is this the MMA gods striking me? Oh, there it is. What happened? Did I just get punished? for talking about the TriCaster

are we still on does this mic work thank God we switched over to Twitter don't want this happening no listen this is premium content for the Twitter audience they are lucky to be getting this exclusive

rick's picks that was our version of the Matt Brown Diego Sanchez finish and listen we're on the back end of it you're going to get exactly what you got in that fight you're just going to get

knockouts you're going to get pure energy adrenaline. Dare I say violence? Right? Come on. No? Come on, guy.

Was that not violent? That actually was violent. That was violent. Yes. It's okay to say it after the fact. Just don't use it as a promotional tool. That's all I'm saying. Come on, me. No?

And by the way, was that behind the head? Maybe, but, you know, he's arcing the elbow. Diego's turning. I don't think that's one you can call a foul. like that's it reminded me a lot of the John Jones

Stefan Bonner finish not so much the actual delivery because that was he didn't finish Stefan Bonner did he well not the finish

but the elbow because the spinning elbow the way he dropped them yeah you know what I'm saying um that said I mean

in no way could I see that as an illegal blow I mean that's just it's hard for me to say that and rectify that

with the idea that we're saying it land it may had landed in the back of the head or behind the ear. But at the same time, I think there has to be some subjectivity and that to me was a legal strike. Okay, so much going on as we've talked.

By the way, what are you rocking over there? Oh, you mean this little thing right here? Wow, look at that. Must be nice. You know what? It must be nice. I never feel like I'm a part of MMA fighting. Nobody loops me in on the meetings.

Nobody sends me swag. This is the first damn time that I get included in the team. And guess what? I had to actively ask for it so I could rep. I mean, it's unbelievable. Danny didn't hook you up over there? Danny hooked me up after I asked him for it. After I said, oh, Brian, I heard their swag. Let me get it. Wow. And then he was like, and Danny was like, nah, this is all for me. J.K., maybe we can break

you off something. J.K. I'm part of, I'm part of this crew. It's about time. We did that one photo. Everybody was in New York one time. Mark Ray Mundy gets photoshopped into it. I'm in the building. I'm not even in the damn photo. You've been holding on to that one for a year. Longer. Damn. Well, let's be honest. I mean, here we are doing a show on Thursday. GSP's in studio, arguably the most important day in the history of the show. And where are you? Nowhere to be found. Making that money. Yeah. Making that money. Writing press releases. Some of that. I mean, you're just like, look, I'm not going to be on the show. Oh,

all right. I'm not coming in today. That's really what you're about. They didn't cut me that check. To come in? To come in? Yeah. All right. Well, it was a great show. Thank you. You didn't watch it. Stop blind. I did. I didn't watch it live, I'll admit, and you knew this. Yeah, very disappointed. But I did have had it in the background. Listen, man, I'm focused. Yeah.

I'm focused, man. You don't listen to anything? Podcast, music, nothing? No. If you ask the people who work around me, it's eerie. I like very, very silent rooms. Wow. Was GSP the first guest to come in studio wearing a suit?

Did, actually, John Kavanaugh? John Kavanaugh wore the suit last time. That's right. I think we've, I mean, we've had so many in studio guests. I have to imagine that. somebody came in the suit before that. Like coming from some kind of press thing. Fair enough.

I'm trying to think. I mean, it's rare. It's definitely rare. And he looked like a million bucks. Wow. We need to replace. By the way, I'm working on replacing that photo right over there.

The one that you see on. PSP one. No, that was the right. Yep. There we go. We're going to make a big ceremony about it. And we're going to put the new one, him winning on November 4th of 2017.

Okay, no time to waste. There's so much going on. What do you got? Okay. First thing up. from Saturday, or at least related to Saturday, Dustin Poillet, his fight kit, as people may have picked up on,

he's done this for the last couple, he's selling his fight kit on eBay with 100% of the proceeds going to the family of a fallen police officer. So check that out on eBay, find it somewhere. If you have seen that fight, you know how bloody it got, so I don't know if that helps or hurts the cause.

I don't know if there's some people who are after that, but you're getting some white blood-soaked like pink fight kit what a win for your guy DP huh congrats to Dustin

huge win biggest win of his career I'd say well and he alluded to it every time he's been in this position before he's faltered that's the reality of it and he finally was able to break through in a dominant way

the beauty of it all was that the first time he faltered on this big stage was there was in Virginia not Norfolk but Fairfax close enough against Korean zombie. Remember that fight in May of 2012? That was the fight that was supposed to get him the title shot. And I remember being in the back and he was crying. He was very emotional. And so here

I feel like he kind of exercised some of those demons and took that next step. What a great performance from him. What a great fight. It's unfortunately a kind of unfortunate ending. Unfortunately ending like, look, I hate when people like I hate when people did this with Tyron Woodley and Carlos Condit, Woodley caused that

injury. There's no doubt about it in my mind that Porier caused that injury. That body triangle was was locked very tight and it led to the rib injury. But you could tell the crowd was confused. Like it wasn't emphatic. Take nothing away from DP. I mean, it was a great performance.

It was fantastic. I'm just saying like for the moment, you know, a finish is something a little more exciting, something that they can get all amped up about. That's fair enough. You know, it wasn't the knockout standing up or it wasn't the elbow that Matt Brown landed. But yeah, he did that.

And we have to give him credit for that. And pettus for fighting tough up. until that point. Great fight. Okay, so Dustin's auctioning that off. Go check it out for a good cause. Now, we spoke about it. We're going to actually show it. Oh, my dear. It's like a machete. What's so great about it is he lines it up.

He just has it this whole time. And look at the way Diego crumples to the ground, like a like a kite that you have in the area. kind of goes and then he points to the to the weapon. The confusing thing about all of this is that

Brown has completely walked back from his retirement talk. So like he didn't really get that moment with his kids in the cage. He seems rather conflicted. And this is the thing. Like Arlowski says had I lost that fight to Junior Albini, I would have retired. Now that I want, I'm sticking

around. Well, why not walk away on a high note? Why does it always have to be on a very sour note? Why do you have to be pushed out. And I know it's hard. It's easy for us to say this is how they make their living. You don't want to walk away from those paychecks. I get it. But I'm very curious as to why Matt Brown, he probably needs some time to figure it out. But now he's like, no, I'm kind of reconsidering this. Well, even as, you know, the paychecks are obviously one motivating factor. If you can continue to do that and get those. But what about, you know, just competitive nature? He went out there and

looked as good as he's looked and got that knockout. In his mind, he's, you know, maybe one or two away from getting on a bit of a run. Like, I don't think we'll ever see a day when a fighter is going to just walk away when they said they walked away, when they'll walk away. Especially if they're planning it this far in advance, you know, Matt Brown for a long time has been calling this fighter's retirement fight. Then he had a great camp and started to walk it back even then. I don't think we'll ever have somebody follow through like that.

Do you think Bisping stays true to his word? Depends on the first. result. Depends on the result. If he goes out in London and gets choked out, let's say it's a repeat of the George St. Pierre fight, is he going to be able to live with that?

He said it was eating him up. Who knows what's going to happen there? When are we going to have that conversation about our beloved Diego Sanchez? We're going to have that later when we get to people's Twitter questions. That's when we'll have it. Mike Goldberg,

with a fantastic tweet from the Bellatory event, got to call Connor McGregor first trip into the Bellator cage. Well done. Well played. Tip of the cap. Yes. To you, Mike Goldberg,

using Twitter effectively. Mark Goddard responding to the situation. Thought this was worth highlighting just because he is one of the referees who's very forthcoming with his opinion. Herb Dean also included in this, Big John McCarthy, but explaining kind of the magnitude

in the situation that was in front of him. I operate with integrity, beliefs and values, says Mark Goddard. I hold MMA in a deep-rooted place in my life and I've considered myself most fortunate to have done so for so long. Family first, everything else I can respect. You know, kind of not addressing the situation directly,

but saying here's what's important. And he considers, you know, MMA to be what he's protecting and the fighters and that above anything else. I felt from Mark Otter. I felt like he handled a very tough situation as best as possible. I mean, what do you do in that situation? You're in Dublin. Most powerful man of the sport is in there.

emotional. I really just think he was trying to get control of the situation, as we've documented now. Like, I just think he was caught off guard. I'm still confused as to why Mike Mazzuli wouldn't say whether or not the fight was called off or if Connor jumping into the cage and then the melee and everything led to the fight being called off after they realized that John Redmond couldn't fight anymore. That seemed a little bit. That was curious to me.

But anyway, I thought that Goddard handled it as best as possible. Yeah, and I think regardless, the fraction of time that it would have either been called off or about to be called off, whatever the case be, or the round ends, there's no, there's no time that it would have been suitable for Conner McGregor to jump into the cage like that. Oh, no, absolutely not. I'm just curious, it's almost a bigger infraction if you jump in after a fight is called off. Okay, that's bad. There's nothing you can say.

But if the fight actually wasn't called off and you jump in, I mean, you can make a case that's worse. There's no place for... Now you're affecting the result of the fight. Yeah. So yeah, there's no place, but I feel like that's an important distinction to make and it hasn't been made. Yeah.

Well, didn't this statement, the statement by ABC alluded to the fact that the fight was still... That was Mike Mazzuli. Yeah. He wrote that statement, but I'm just curious as to why he wouldn't want to talk about it. Now moving to... Frankie Edgar, man of the hour.

Look at that. Unfortunately pulled out of... Look at that spread, huh? Out of the fight, but yeah, this is why I picked this. He's eaten good in his time, saying he got hit with a minor setback, but should be back to full contact in six weeks or so. Thanks to the USC for always having my back.

Max, I'll see you down the road. I'd love to go to that restaurant. That restaurant looks fantastic. It looks like Mediterranean. Could be his house. Who knows? No, that's not his house. And we got the reply from Max Holloway on Twitter

saying injuries are part of this fight game. Frankie's the man, wish him a speedy recovery. So they seem to be cordial. Isn't Max Holloway the best? He's pretty great. Even his tweet about the poster, it is what it is. I mean, it's just classic. The guy's great.

He really come into his own. He has, and now we have Josie Aldo versus Max Holloway. How do you feel about this? Can I ask you, or are we going to talk about it later? I think we'll get into it later, but initial thoughts are, I like that better than the Cubs-Swanson fight. I like Cub. Sure.

I'm kidding. I think, you know, in my opinion, Aldo was winning two rounds against Holloway before he got finished, possibly, you know, won a piece, whatever, you know, however you saw it. I think he was just a little bit more dangerous than Cub was. That fight with Holloway was one-sided and I'm not, I wasn't so interested in seeing that now. You know, it's different times and Aldo was much more recently. But I think this was the fight to make. I personally would rather have seen this. Don't you feel like Max Hallway almost deserves another opponent?

You know, like it wasn't controversial. There was nothing that was indecisional about it. Let him kind of move on and defend the belt against a new opponent and then rehash the Aldo fight. At the sake of having a new or less recent opponent at the sake of having a worse fight? I don't think so. I don't know.

Look, there's no good answer here because he has a win over both Aldo and Swanson. Also, both Aldo and Swanson are booked. So we haven't even brought up the Ricardo Lama's thing. Ricardo Lama's who I spoke to, very pissed off. His family is in Chicago. He has a relative newborn. He's in Miami training. And now it doesn't know who he's training for.

Yeah, he seems to be a bit snake bitten when it comes to these things. We just talked about it a few moments ago. B.J. Penn, that's right. And from what I understand, he did not really like the way that it all went down as far communicating with him that this fight was being taken away from him. I mean, he's fighting in a big fight against the former champion, a rematch for him, an important fight. He lost that title fight to Jose Aldo.

So really, there was no good scenario here. Even Ortega, who you could make a case. Hey, he's 12 and 0 and 1 or something like that. He has an opponent, and it's Cub Swanson. There was no other guy who could be thrown in there. Yeah. For me, I think in the situation like that, where there is no guy like that,

that you can just say, hey, let's plug this in. I think you have to go with the best fight. And for me, I think that's Aldo. What a bummer, though. And Holloway. I was so excited for the- Edgar. Holloway and Edgar was going to be great.

Okay. I'm not going to read this whole message because it's very, very long, but just an Instagram post here from Angela Lee. Oh, my God. Who's in a car accident. What a story. Last week.

Yeah. Letting everybody know that, you know, she's getting through it. And, you know, she's not going to be able to fight on November 24th when she was scheduled to fight, but in recovery. and we hope to see her soon. But glad that she's okay.

You see the picture of her car? Yeah, completely totaled. Fell asleep at the wheel. Very scary. Dangerous. Very dangerous. Sometimes I feel like I'm going to fall asleep sometimes and I try to fight through it and it's a big problem. During the show or at the wheel?

No, at the wheel. I try to stay up for the show but no, when I'm driving, I sometimes feel like I'm dozing off. It's a bit scary. It's terrifying. Yeah. And I think we've all been in that situation. situation before where we've been feeling like it's time to maybe pull over, but a little reluctant.

We got to get where we got to go, right? I try to slap myself, I yell at myself. You fight through it, you turn up the AC to the coldest setting. You know what? I never tried that. Oh yeah. Make yourself uncomfortable. Wow, you know what?

That's a brilliant one. I've done the music. Listen to me, people. Don't do any of these things. No, but I just never thought of that. Pull over. Pull over and take a nap on the side of the road. Amen.

a tweet from you being featured. Ariel Hawani, quote tweeting Rory McDonald's who was angling for a spot in the Belvoir heavyweight tournament. Ariel Hohwani saying Rory wants in, to which Rory said, that's right. Yeah. So I would like to see Rory. Well, to wait. Look, there's four non-heavyweights in the tournament already.

That's the only reason why. If this was traditional, if we had eight heavyweights in here, I wouldn't be so keen on Rory, you know, stepping up and trying to get in there. But because we're realistically looking at like four light heavyweights and four heavyweights, why not? Somebody falls off. Rory Mac throw himself in there. I mean, he is fighting for the belt on January 20th, but that is gangster weight.

Right there. I want to see Rory fight in the heavyweight tournament at like 179 pounds, like not even that big. I wonder what he does walk at, but I hope he just comes in at whatever weight that is. Yeah. And tries to get it done. We have an Instagram post from Saki Kabara. Ah, yes. Announcing the return of Mirko Crow Cop to the Rise and Ring.

Nothing in terms of specifics yet, but we'll be returning to fight again. Welcome back, Mirko. Very proud to say Mirko Krokop, friend of the show. Friend of the show. Friend of the program. Every time he comes on, we get something. We get something new. We get some new wrinkle from Mirko, friend of the show, Mirko Krookop, coming back to the MMA,

the sport of MMA. The MMA. Wow. What in the world was that? You know what you just sounded like? The Congress hearing last week. Did you watch that thing? I saw some tweets. Oh my. Is this featured at all? No. No. Oh my gosh. So they had the the congressman from Oklahoma, Mark Wayne Mullen. And, I mean, I just couldn't believe that you have Mark Rattner there.

And this guy is talking to Mark Rattner in the most disrespectful, combative, contentious tone possible about rankings, about the ranking system. Now, they're talking about, they're having hearing about, you know, should the Ali Act be brought over to MMA?

And I think we've talked about, you know, fighter treatment. And I do think that there's a strong case to be made for this. But you have Mark, Ratner, who's the VP of regulatory fairs for the UFC, you know, in the flesh, and if you know anything about an and Mark Wayne has actually fought before, you know that Mark Ratner has nothing to do with rankings, absolutely nothing to do with rankings. And he made one comment that he believes that boxers and MMA fighters from a regulatory standpoint are treated equally. Mark would know as a former head of the

Nevada Athletic Commission, and Mr. Mullen took that comment and applied it to rankings, and he just kept going on and on about the rankings. And Mark Ratner kept telling him, I have nothing to do with the rankings. GSP gets a title fight, Dan Henderson. And he's like, with all due respect, I have nothing to do with the rankings that I just couldn't understand why they would waste so much time. I know he's the UFC representative there, but there are many things that you could talk to Mark Ratner about to try to push your agenda outside of these silly rankings. Get someone from the rankings committee there if you want to know what really goes on and how flawed those things are. You know, make the pitch, make the invitation to have a

matchmaker there who's actually deciding who is, you know, fighting in these fights. Not Mark Ratner. That was befuddling. I mean, it was really, I was watching this thing and I was starting to get a little bit upset. It's like, wow, Mark Ratner. Way to keep your cool. there. I mean, I know you're in Congress and you can't really do much, but this guy is just attacking him about the rankings. I couldn't believe it. Yeah. And by the way, the Ali Act should be a hell of a lot more than just the ranking. I know it's more than the rankings, but like he was focusing so much on the rankings. And we know what it represents because you get a title fight and that changes your fortunes financially. I get it. But again, if you know enough about this topic, you know

that Mark Ratner has nothing to do with the fights about, you know, matchmaking them, all that stuff, nothing to do with them. So why are you like grilling this guy? It's like the Spanish Inquisition. Anyway. Poor Mark. Francis Inganu here on Twitter. Yes. What swagger he has? Oh, what do we have here? Pointing out something interesting saying this guy is funny.

He's thinking that on December 2nd. He's going to play with a baby animal in the petting zoo. A picture of Alistair Overeem, which he posted to his Instagram, with an alligator. But, but its mouth is taped. I mean, could we really fault Alster for that? No,

but I think Francis Ngano with the deep cut on that, I like it. I like where he's going with this. Should Alistair have Photoshopped the tape? You know? Yes.

The answer is yes. Yeah, I feel like. You got to, you know what? You photoshop the mouth wide open, make it look menacing. No, don't go crazy. Just color over that black tape.

Yeah. How about that hashtag? Credit to Francis. Ream is Detroit. Reem is Detroit, U.S.C. 218 in Detroit. Thankfully, we'll be getting that. Darren Till with also some Photoshop work. We have Stephen Wonderboy Thompson as a youngster

here in the Photoshop. But Daddy, I wanted to fight Darren Till. He says, to which the father says, listen, son, that is not a good fight for us. He's a light heavyweight fighting at Walter Waite. Darren Till getting loose on the Photoshop. Ray Thompson. adamant that this fight should not happen next.

Here a cheeky post from Angela Hill on Twitter. Proving that women of the superior gender, no low blows. We have Nina Ansarov kicking her and Angela shaking it off. Nice win for Nina on Saturday. By the way, Angela Hill was featured in the BBC. BBC, yeah. And an older friend of my wife's texted her on Saturday afternoon and said, are you going to be watching the Angela Hill fight?

I know for sure that this person does not watch MMA, let alone Angela Hill fights. And so I guess that it was the BBC article that informed her about it. And I was right. So sometimes these things work. She was all in. Yeah, great fight.

Congrats to Nina. Huge win there. Picking up some momentum. We have a throwback here from Rose Namahunis. Oh. Doing the splits. with a bunch of trophies. Now I'm wondering if they're all hers

or if this was like at the ceremony and these were for other people to grab but impressive nonetheless. Yeah, why do you have to question it? Listen, I'm just trying to paint a picture here. I feel like they're all hers. Look at that mean mug. If they're all hers,

I mean, that's that's even more gangster. Very J-CVD of her that pose. Yeah, shout out to Rose. And J-CVD. we have a bit of news here on the family front Marluse Coonin Mazeltov with a bun in the oven yes how are we doing over there on on that front we're two to three ish weeks away so you think who knows could be happening right now wow my wife would have well I mean it could be you know

wheels in motion yeah but when are we going to have the conversation about how much time you're taking up because the first time What's that time? Say I take any time off? You're not taking any. Wow. Famous last words. We'll see about that.

Listen, I show up. Yeah? What have happened the Monday morning? You know, it'd drive my wife to the last row. Yeah, that's right. Drop her off. I'll be back at six.

Babe, I'll see you in a little bit. Yeah, right. We have some big guests on the show today. That's right. I'll see it. Better believe it. Okay. Glad to hear.

But it's happening soon and I'm nervous and excited. I'd be nervous about But congrats to Marley Yes Who's expecting as well Lance Palmer Team Alpha males

Lance Palmer Getting married Not much of a caption Just Mr. and Mrs. Palmer But also muzzle Toe Toh PFL's own

As As Rampage Jackson says Muslim Toes Yeah But congrats to Lance His wife Just won here we have on your desk

we have this bobblehead here Eddie Alvarez having a bit of fun about the bobblehead he says great to see Bellets who are giving credit where it's due free Bjorn Rebney bubbleheads for all the fans this year Wow that is a good one from Eddie

That's a great tweet from Eddie We see the bubblehead there on your desk Covered by the Canadian flag Excuse me move that Canadian flag My bad my bad From the American hero My bad, yeah You know what? I should swap this

Shouldn't I? You know what we call that? We call that taking the piss. Eddie was doing. Having a little fun, but fair play. Fair play. And I think this is the last one. We've got Vitor Belfort here.

Do you recognize this man? Cutting. Yeah. Are you in with what this is? Are you aware of what's going on? No. So there was a character that got very popular called Salt Bay. Never heard of Salt Bay?

No. Wow. Is that meat? Yeah, he's cutting meat. What is this guy doing? Whoa. He's cutting the meat and that flourish at the end there became worldwide sensation. What is that?

Wait, who's this guy? This gentleman is a chef. Is that Robert Downey Jr.? It looks exactly like him. It's Iron Man. Is it? No, this chef. He's an actual chef.

He's an actual chef. At a restaurant. Actual chef. Where? I forget the restaurant, but now he's become much more of like a celebrity traveling a a bit. What is that? Is that salt right there?

That looks like a bit of a thicker garnish, but the original, the original iteration of this was him rolling the salt down his elbow. What? What kind of meat is that? He became known as Salt Bay. I'm guessing that's a steak.

So Vitor Belfort met this man. Vitor Melfort, not only didn't meet him, he got served by Salt Bay. Wow. So he's a big deal. Vitor Belfort living his best life. Yeah. Two lions here.

Okay. And that was it for Rick's picks. I'm surprised. You didn't pick the... What's that? The Conner clip. Positiveity only, my friend. Positiveity only on Rick's picks.

Supporting his friend. No, that's... I don't endorse the reckless behavior. Okay, so let's transition to that. Let's transition to that. So we're going to do... Wait, I wanted to get your thoughts on it. Are there's questions?

All right, we can... I mean, come on. You know that's going to come up in... All right, all right. In the course of conversation. Okay. We're going to start this week, how we always started, but you already revealed the answer to your question of the week.

A lot of responses to this one, huh? It's a hot topic. It's topical, yeah. The MMA hour question of the week, not that your other questions are on topical, sorry for that. Who should the UFC have booked versus Max Holloway after Frankie Eggers' injury? And then remember, we're live and less than two hours. But if you're tuned in now, you made the right call and tuned in when Ariel prompted you.

but let's bring up the answer here. At the time, it was, what, 48% for... For Cub Swanson. Oh, man, so many tweets. Hold on. We'll get it. We'll get it. For me? I've been doing a show for five hours. Yeah, but you've been tweeting them all the live stuff.

We know we can count on you for that. Okay, here we have it. Question of the week. the answers were or the possible responses were Josealdo, Cousanson, Brian Ortega Ricardo Lamas and with 17,000 votes

48% still, Cubs Swanson, 40% Josaldo, 9% Ortega, 3% Ricardo Lama. By the way, I wouldn't have hated on Brian Ortega getting that shot. I don't know about y'all but I like those kind of stories. I'm okay with it. Too soon? No.

Mm-mm. I mean, he hasn't faced an opponent in the top 10? Has he faced the top 10 opponent? Brian Ortega? Not really. I don't think so. So it's a bit of a huge jump to go to Holloway,

who's looked absolutely unstoppable. But I wouldn't have been as mad at it. In my opinion, I'm Aldo, then Ortega, then Swanson, then Lamas. That's my kind of order. Aldo Ortega. Wow. Swanson third? I've seen it. I've seen it. And Ortega's fresh. That's the, that's the difference there.

Wow. Aldo, Aldo I saw too, but it looked like he was doing. Winning streak, sports psychologist. Swanson, Swanson Ortega toss up. How about that? But for me, Aldo was the right choice. It was. That's ultimately where I live. Is there any part of you that's a little Jose Aldo doubt? No. For years, it's been, we don't get enough, Aldo. You know, he's too secretive in the public eye. We don't hear from him, we don't see him, he fights infrequently. Now, hey, let's, more Jose Aldo. I'm all in on it. I like Aldo

versus Holloway. It's amazing how this sport goes. Remember in June we thought, all right, that's the end of the Aldo era. One punch away now, and we're back in the Aldo era. Yeah. I don't know. I was pulling for Swanson, and I felt like it was a fresh

matchup, but I knew, considering the fact that he had one fight left, that it was almost an impossible scenario. Oh, man. And so I think a lot of things we're working in Aldo's favor here. Yeah. And don't get to be wrong. I'd like to see Swanson,

I'd like to see Swanson Holloway. It's just not under these circumstances. Well, what do you mean? What's the difference? Because he has a fight, finish that fight, then maybe we talk about the next. So if Swanson beats Ortega?

I'm okay. If Swanson beats Ortega, Holloway beats Aldo, I'm fine with that next. I'm all about that. Okay, so let me ask you this. Yeah. Holloway beats Aldo.

Swanson beats Ortega. Do you do Holloway Swanson next or do you do Holloway Edgar? Because you presume Edgar would be ready to come back. You're probably going to pick Edgar because that's the fresh matchup. And I don't blame you. I really want to see that fight. I really wanted to see that fight. You know, however the timing works out, I'd say give it to either one of them.

I feel like at that point, although, you know what? The thing is title shots are never done like that anymore. more. I don't think if Edgar sits out, I think he loses some cachet there. I think you know, Swanson's going to be fresh that's just what happens. I'll say this about 145. It's kind of like the

anti-170. Right. There's not a lot going on there. Yeah. It's a lot of the same names. I don't feel like there's a huge influx of young guys. There's Ortega, but otherwise not a ton of big names. Yeah. Young guys. If I was, if I was a

135er go up might start you know angling up if I was a 135er was having a tough cut

maybe you know insert yourself into that conversation John Lineker no just kidding not that about a 155 or

it's so jam packed well I'm not about to advocate for guys to start cutting more weight but who makes this

the most sense to fight Lamas yeah that is a fascinating question I feel for Lamas. So what? It's a little over a month away, right?

December 16th. I don't want to see A. E. Rodriguez, take that fight too soon. I do believe Elkins just got a fight. Jeremy Stevens just got married. Bermudas? I'm into that. I mean, now you're going all the way down.

I mean, it's not a lot to gain here for Ricardo Lamas. So what do you do? Do you wait? I don't know. What's Mirsad Bechtick up to? Yeah. I don't know. do wait you want to get paid there's anyone from

135 that come up meet in the middle I don't know they're gonna have to find one It's not gonna be a great situation That's for sure Yeah it's tough Maybe Jeremy Stevens takes that fight

Right I mean I feel like that would be one that makes sense If he's willing to fight You know he just got married But he had that big win over Gilbert Melendez I feel like there's some momentum behind him right yeah so we'll see what happens

there's a lot of guys in the like 10 to 20 range that are you know viable it's just if you're llamas that's that's a tough yeah you go from fighting josea aldo yeah that's that's a tough one to go from fighting aldo to somebody who's in the 10 to 15 you know 10 to 15 10 to 20 range coming off back to back wins

it's tough no good no good answer for that tough situation for llamas do you think anything will come I guess we'll say in the result of, you know, a penalty or some kind of, you know, what's the word punishment? From McGregor losing it at the Bellatory event. You know, this is the fascinating thing because he wasn't licensed. I want to hear from the UFC that they were really willing. I mean, I don't know if it was that easy, to be honest.

You know, I had not heard that they had come to terms that they were going to, you know, give him a piece of the pie, make it a co-promotion you know that that's that's a big that's a big bridge to cross and then to take away for something that happened in Bellator right the thing about Connor is and this is something that I've heard from it's so funny

like MMA fans MMA media people in the MMA bubble that love this sport that live and breathe this sport are like yeah I mean this is indefensible right I mean how could you defend this this can't happen this shouldn't happen it's just not a good look

and then from all my casual everyone's seen the clip, right? All my casual fan friends who just kind of check in and out were like, oh man, Connor's the best,

right? Connor doesn't give an F. Look how great this guy is. He's hilarious. Did you notice that as well? Like people who care about MMA and recognize what's the correct protocol,

what's right and wrong? Like, no, I mean, like we all enjoy Connor. We all recognize how great he is. We all know what he's done for the sport. But yeah, this is a tough one to defend. And then all the other

people are like, oh man, this makes Connor even cooler, in my opinion. This makes it more popular, in my opinion. This makes him, this is brilliant branding. What great marketing. Way to stay in the news, Connor. Because we care about the day to day. We care about how this affects the sport. We care about the nuance, whereas they're just popping in whenever Connor McGarer is fighting and, you know, this is just adding to the legend. But we, we care about every single day what's happening in MMA. And so my point is, Connor is even more popular now to the casual. Why would you take him off the card. There's no, he didn't necessarily break a rule in the sense that he's a licensed guy or an, you know, like, oh, you went in there when the fight was over. He, he, it was clearly an infraction,

but he was just, he was essentially no different than a fan jumping into the cage that night, right? No different. No. He was a spectator. Unlicensed. Yeah. It doesn't matter. If, if, if, let's say he was, you know, not a fighter, he could have been family of Charlie Ward or somebody, just unlicensed, completely, you know. And so the situation is they didn't press charges, right? The three arena didn't kick him out. The Shares Haken doing that. And so what could you do after the fact?

Now there is that Belator employee, Mike Johnson, fight operations, the one who was apparently slapped. You saw that on the TMZ clip. Will he do something? We don't know. But what could they do afterwards? Is Nevada going to say no to him?

Come on now. I just don't see anything happening. It's very difficult for Nevada or somebody else to be accountable for something that didn't happen under their jurisdiction. They didn't take the fight away when he threw the cans. I mean, that was equally as they do. Someone could have died. Beyond being equally dangerous, it was in their jurisdiction. He was licensed. That was licensed and in Nevada.

They punished it. And then they took back the punishment. Now they reduced it. They're being, you know, the ABC is pushing it onto other people who are not on site or not involved in the situation. to punish somebody, it's a very difficult thing. I ultimately think, you know, I understand that people are saying that this is unacceptable and there should be some punishment, but I also understand the point of view if you're somebody who was not involved in the situation or, you know, it didn't happen under your jurisdiction

to not say, okay, we're going to punish you for this. I understand it. I get it. My prediction, look, if you say, all right, we're suspending you for six months, right? Well, that's kind of like, you know, suspending a starting pitcher for seven days. You're missing one start. You know what I mean? So his return is delayed.

Like, I hate to tell everyone this, but like the UFC needs Connor McGregor. And you can make a case that right this second, they need him more than he needs them. And so I just find it shocking that I would be shocked, I should say, if they pull him from a fight, because of something that happened in a Belter cage. And I've seen a lot of people say, look at this quote from Dana White about Jason High. Look at this quote from Dana White about Roy Nelson. Well, first of all, we all know that there are different rules for different people.

And second of all, he's just going to say, look, it wasn't in a fight. He was there. I didn't know what's going on. Their security sucked. They shouldn't have done this. Like, there's very, it's very easy for them to get around this. And to be honest, he's not wrong if he says that. I don't, I don't, I can't fault somebody for saying that.

it's not his responsibility. But let's just be very clear here because I know some people will try to twist this. Like we are not condoning this. No. I don't want people jumping into the gate. No.

I'm just being asked like, what do I think is going to happen? And what I think is going to happen, at least as of right now from the temperature that I'm taking is not that much. Yeah. You know, what could they do?

What could Mike Missouli do? As much as he is respected and wants to do something, what could he do? He's not a licensed fighter at Mohegan. He can recommend, based on his position as the president of the ABC, but what could he really do and who's going to listen, right?

It would require somebody... Fascinating story. It would require somebody sacrificing something that's in their own best interest to do it. And that doesn't seem reasonable at this point now. It was wrong. But in this circumstance, it seems like he either calculated it properly or got lucky. One of the two, and I don't imagine much is going to be coming from it,

punishment-wise. Here's the question that's at the root of it, though. Does he deserve to miss that start if he was a pitcher? Does he deserve to have that fight taken away? Should there be a punishment? The root of all this. If you ignore the dysfunction as far as commissions are concerned, and if someone wants to say, like, look, we're punishing you as a combatant, you fight, I'm the president of ABC and everyone's going to pay attention. There should be some sort of what should I say I don't like the word

punishment but there like there should be repercussions for what he did. There should be repercussions for the actions. Especially because we are still not clear as to whether or not the fight was called off. So if you're jumping in the cage while a fight is still hanging in the air like that's a big deal.

You know, you just can't do that and I feel like Connor and maybe I'm wrong but I feel like he would be the first one to say that and I know it was emotional and I know Charlie Ward means a lot to him and I know he's had some struggles and I know this was an important fight in Dublin

I know and understand all those things but like I said at the top I wish he just would have waited wait a minute wait till the fight is officially called off wait till the result is announced and then jump in and then go crazy we all love you for it but don't do it at that moment

you can't do that I have a feeling Connor will ultimately also when the first time he talks about this kind of land where that is I don't think his head or, you know, the emotion got the best of him. I don't think his head was to disrupt the fight. I really don't. But I do think the emotions got the best of him.

And ultimately, we can't have that. It's just not what this sport is about. You can't just have rogue people flying into the cage. And so our colleague Casey, Casey Leiden, our great videographer, brings up this question, which is actually a fascinating question and somewhat related in apropos. Did the UFC punish Nate Diaz during the street? Strike Force brawl, his involvement in the strike force brawl. Right. They did not.

Yeah. And I understand it. I get it. Yeah. I get why you would not. I can't see the UFC saying as a result of something that happened at a Bellator event that we had nothing to do with. Yeah. We're now going to punish him and as a result punish ourselves. It's very difficult. You know? And I understand

it. Okay. Fascinating. I saw a bit of this, so I thought it was worth asking this question from PD&G. Connor's behavior was wrong. However, should the Bellatory employee had to push someone from the top of the cage like that. Dangerous way to handle the situation. He could fall to the metal far below him.

And then he says something else about from where he's from. People get some. But there was a lot of talk about Connor being pushed off the cage. Is that the right way to handle it? By the way, there was a lot of talk of people saying Goddard touched Connor and had no right to touch Connor. God bless Connor McGregor's fans. They are the most loyal fans out there. they will back their guy till the death.

They will support him. I mean, just look at the mentions in Goddard's, you know, Twitter after his tweet. I tweeted about it. God bless these human beings. They love him. But in this case, as I said, I do believe it's indefensible. Like what?

Goddard as the referee, as the guy who's literally put in place to restore order or, you know, enforce order in that situation, there's three people that are supposed to be in the cage during a fight. three, the two combatants and the referee. What do you want them to do? Hold them by the hand. You know, like, come on. And it wasn't exactly the most aggressive push. Now, the top of the cage thing, I don't know.

Are we saying, like, okay, so what are we saying? Two wrongs make it right here? What are we saying? This guy should have never touched? I don't know. Yeah, what we have to chalk that up to is Connor was the one who created this chaos. In the chaos, this person was trying to gain control of situation. Was that the optimal way? Probably not, but this situation was out of control at that point. And you can't, you know, fault that person for trying to restore some semblance of order. And obviously, I mean, I'm not even going to talk about, like, can Mark Goddard try to do that? Of course, like, that is his role, as you said perfectly. That is what he is there for, as well as the other commissioners and people involved in the regulation. So no, I think.

think, you know, Connor McGregor put himself in that hornets nest. And I guess the next thing to now discuss if you are a regulator is, should Mark Goddard be reffing SBG fights? Clearly, there is an issue there. And whether it's, you know, yelling out instructions and following the action, like in Poland or this situation, it's just too hostile. It's just too emotional. And it's unfortunate because Goddard is one of the best and you don't want to take him away from a situation where he is the best guy available for a fight involving

a Brian Moore or a Charlie Ward or, you know, I don't know, some other, you know, an Artem Lobov, etc. But in this case, I kind of feel like they should just remove him from the equation so that nothing else happens. Yeah, I mean, you can't point to anything in that fight

that necessarily somebody's going to have an objection to. It's just the circumstances that followed it, that create, you know, there is a narrative here. There is some kind of story here that's worth just distancing from. And you know what's crazy? I feel like there's only two fighters that Connor would show up for at this point and be this emotional about. And it's Ardham and Charlie. Sure.

Two active fighters. Like, I don't know if he's showing up to a James Galaher fight. I must just love him and respect him and admire him. I don't know if he's making the trek to Poland for that fight. But Artem and Charlie are guys who are with him all the time. Like, unless Owen Roddy comes back, I don't, you know, I don't, you know, I don't think that's happening anytime soon, but you get my point. And so Goddard happens to be the ref for those two fights and something happens.

So maybe it's time to take a bit of a break. How do you feel about our next question? How do you feel about the Connor incident being used as promo for Bellator? Look, Belator is going to take advantage to the situation. And I thought Andy Ryan said it very well to our own PT Carroll. They weren't disappointed about this. They loved it. They could not get this out quick enough.

Do I begrudge them for it? Not necessarily. This is the promotional business. This is gauge fighting. Fair play. Yeah. And I don't think that they orchestrated this. No, no, come on.

Certainly, you know, Connor shows up. You put Charlie Ward on the main card. Connor shows up. You're like, oh boy, we could now show Connor on our screen. This is fantastic. Now, should the arena security have recognized that maybe he's a little, you know, colorful and animated and roaming and maybe we should. I mean, he runs Dublin, you know, like, what are you going to do?

What are you going to do? Throw Connor out? I think it's absolutely fair play. There'll be a riot. They throw them out. So no, I was not surprised and I don't necessarily begrudge them for using that as a problem. The one time tape delay actually helps them. Yeah.

You get enough time to cut the promo. You put out a commercial. Yeah, now they're going to be using this as their excuse for tape delay. There you go. I hate the damn tape delay. Okay. is Bellator making a mistake by not putting their own homegrown fighters like Justin Ren and Bobby

Lashley in the heavyweight tournament? You know, Justin Wren, I don't know, maybe I consider him a bell, you know, more made his name on top. But point being, people were asking specifically a lot about Bobby Lashley, should there be more Bellator heavyweights in the heavyweight tournament?

I had heard that Bobby Lashley, initially when I heard about this tournament, remember when Scott, I don't ever do this, but I'll do this time. Remember when Scott Koker was on the show and I asked him about A, rampage and I asked him about the heavyweights and then I asked him about a tournament. Do you remember that?

You probably weren't listening. Anyway, it was because I knew about the tournament. But I, you know, I had to keep that one under my hat because it wasn't 100% just yet. And I heard that Bobby Lashley was a part of it initially. I don't know why he's at. I don't know how committed he is to, you know, doing MMA these days. He's a part of Impact Wrestling. I know his contract is coming up. Maybe there's some interest in going back to WWE.

But you can't deny that they chose like the most popular. eight guys that they could choose. I don't love the idea of Chale fighting at heavyweight. And I'm sorry to have ruined ramping this day. He brings up a good point, but who's he going to fight? Okay, so if not Chale, who do you put ram... So Fador Amir, right? Who are you going to have rampage fight?

And by the way, Scott Coker just tweeted out the poster. And it's a nice looking poster. And by the way, how about Invicta and Boss Logic coming together? How about that post? I'm surprised you didn't put that in Rick's picks. It came out too late. It too late in the game. Beautiful.

Boss Logic doing the Invictor So who are you going to have him fight? Not Ryan Bader He doesn't want Ryan Bader Right? I think Look

Not King Mo We've been there done that Fader Amir So it's either Sunnan Mitrione Or Nelson You're going to get

Like not everybody's going to get The draw they want Yeah And eventually you're going to have to fight somebody That you're not going to want to fight I think you know

You can't control that that circumstance, but Imagine an alternative wins this one too. It's a reality of the tournaments. Look, Roy McDonald's ready. You put him in there? Oh my God, did you imagine? Oh my God. Rory wins the tournament.

Imagine he's the heavyweight and welterweight champion, not heavyweight and light heavyweight, not welterweight and middleweight, heavyweight and welterweight. I love it. That would be the, I would say that takes the top champ champ distinction. If he was

the Bellator Heavyweight and Walter White champion, I would be impressed. Yeah. I would say he's the most worthy champ champ. Okay. With the fluky manner, which Justin Porier won, will that affect his chances?

It wasn't fluky. Get out of here with the fluky. No way. That wasn't fluky. No. Because it wasn't a stamp on it. Is that going to affect it? That was a big win over a big name, former champion. Saturday's card was very entertaining. And by the way, shout out to our guy, Sage Northcut for looking great and reinventing himself.

And really, I thought, a lot more aggressive than he was in the past. A lot of fighters, not Sage. Sage was Sage was Sage, but a lot of fighters really took control of the microphone. Holy smokes. Desa Borei was like, I'm not going to ask for this. I'm going to tell you what I'm going to have next. I'm going to have the winner of Gaichi and Alvarez. And, oh, by the way, yeah, you can write that check out to me of the 50K. Like he was very aggressive when it came to that.

Even before that they caught him on camera yelling to Sean Shelby that he wants the winner of that fight and he wants his 50K. He knew what he wanted. Marlon Moray. So there were a lot of guys who came out and were just...

John Anik with the assist on the Marlon Mariah's one. Annex just guiding them. Pointing, pointing. Hey, here's this camera. Here's this person. This is where you need to be. I texted Anik this and maybe it wasn't the best time,

but it was in the middle of the broadcast when they announced the Bissing News and he's like, I just found out 30 seconds ago and I was like, come on John, you don't follow me on Twitter? I reported this four hours ago and I felt, okay, you know what, Annex got a lot on his plate.

He's kind of working. But it was just a friendly joke. I love John Anick. Are you kidding me? Come on, he's number one. I'm the one who campaign and said that it's crazy that they're looking for, you know,

a so-called, you know, John Anick is a guy. To be, yeah, anyway. But, yeah, shout out to everybody who made the most of their mic time. Sure. Okay. Diego Sanchez.

Yes. Is it time for the USC to stop booking him in fights? Man, this is that discussion, right? Look, I'll say this. In the past, and it hasn't happened often, in the past, Dana White has tried to usher out guys who have taken a lot less damage than Diego Sanchez has. and only he can decide

and we could just say but yes you ask me like as a fan as someone who watched him tough one and we've seen him through it all and he's been incredibly entertaining you know would I be against the idea of him walking away? Absolutely not

um he's the lone it feels uncomfortable now you know he's the lone surviving member of tough one but I'm worried given his spirit that they say goodbye and then he just goes

and fights for someone else. Well that's the reality like we've heard this so many times with so many fighters. Even a guy like Chuck Liddell ushered into retirement for his health and rumblings of him coming back

and there is no way to force this issue. Diego's going to have to make that decision on his own and it's a tough thing to say but I'll say this. I don't know if these fights at this point in his career

are going to add anything to his legacy or prove anything. anything further. He has proven all he has to prove. He's, he's, you know, one of the OGs. So it's up to him to decide, you know, when, when it's time to call it quits. But his legacy is cemented for me is, is firm. He's, he's one of those dudes, those first ballot UFC guys. Hated this fight when it was announced. It felt like it was a, uh, a middleweight against a lightweight, you know, just look at the fight. Look at the size difference. He was, you know,

he was in control at a certain point and- Mark Brown is much bigger than the elbow turned it around. you know it's it's I don't know I would be okay with not seeing Diego in there it's it's tough but there's nothing we can say it's always up to the fighter and only they know when it when it's time

yeah or when they you know it was great he's he's giving us so many great memories but it's hard to see him succumb to punishment like that time and again do you think Michael Bisping is making a mistake by coming back this soon also they asked how he's being cleared already we touched on it on the show he spoke to the commissions and was cleared and now that 30 days suspension

longer applied he's at the end right and in his mind it's a two for one I just did a training camp I'll get two paydays out of it yeah he doesn't really have to do much he's pretty much on weight right how big could he have gotten and uh you know it's a two for one and so in his mind he has two paydays left

he is going to suck this thing until it's absolutely dry and so he gets this one one quick payday, and then he goes to London and calls it a day. It is, I mean, Michael Bisping is banged up, and, you know, he could talk about his, his injuries and his wear and tear better than I can. Again, as I said, when I heard it, I was kind of shocked, but then when you hear Bisping and the way he talks, and there is something to be said, look, we love these guys, we love these women because they do things that we can never dream of doing.

They have courage. Like we can never, ever, ever dream of possessing. They go into a cage, they close a door, and they're, I mean, essentially naked fighting in front of the world. And it's an unbelievable thing to watch, and we live vicariously through them. And Michael Biss being saying that, you know, I am emotionally hurt and I need this, you know, this chaser, if you will, to get over the pain of last Saturday. I get it. And this is why he's so admirable. This is why we love him.

This is why I say we're going to miss him. I get it. I want to root for someone like that because I can never dream of doing something like that. But yes, knowing what we know about injuries and CTE and all this stuff, there is a part of you that feels uncomfortable. If his wife's behind it, if he's behind it, if the commissions are behind it, then more power to you. I hope everything goes okay.

And Kelvin Gassum's a much younger and fitter fighter, less wear and tear. And it's like it's fight past and it's in Shanghai. There's nothing really glamorous about the whole thing. But, you know, he wants back in. He wants back in because he wants to erase it. He wants to erase it and he wants the payday and he was honest about that. And, you know, as a father of three of myself, I get it. I certainly get it.

But yeah, there was a part of me that was like, damn, this feels a little early. He even asked me. He asked me, what do you think? And I said, you know, as someone who admires you, I feel like this might be a little early. Maybe not physically, but emotionally. Like, are you over it? Mentally, are you clear? He says he's all good.

So let's see. We'll find out. Okay. Anderson getting flagged, Edgar pulling out, Aldo going in, Connor out of control at Bellator, Bisping, entering the fray. Newswise, what was the craziest 24-hour stretch you have ever seen in MMA? Was it that night? Was it that day? No, there's been some crazy.

I mean, last year I feel like had, I mean, like UFC 200 with John Jones, maybe it wasn't 24 hours, but, you know, the John Jones situation, the sale and what transpired at 200, that was pretty darn nuts. Yeah. That's a great one. I don't know if I put that up there with 200. It was just kind of a strange. It was like, it was an old school.

I mean, overall, 2017, there haven't been a ton of big fights, big events. And there haven't been, you know, a lot of big stories. This past week in particular was kind of like a string of weird, bad stories, negative stories, you know. I mean, Edgar pulling out was somewhat depressing. And then Dominic, thankfully, was in his knee or any part of his lower body, his legs or anything like that. But I wouldn't say it was the craziest, no. Friday was kind of weird though with the Connor thing

and the Anderson thing happening happening you're like ah damn it wasn't like ah you know what I mean like if GSP popped you'd be like holy crap Demetri's Johnson

holy crap but unfortunately we've been through this before with Anderson sure what are realistic options for the UFC 219 headliner

this might have been the number one question this week people are worried about UFC 219 should be cyborg home you know look like Ted DiBiBiopi

said and Connor McGregor said, every man has a price, so do they go back to that well? Let's see. It's very simple. Steve Miochich isn't getting that call as of right now. He still has his issues. And quite frankly, who's he fighting? Dano Cormier, probably fighting in January, as we've said. GSP not fighting.

I don't rule out Tyrone Woodley just yet. Let's keep him in that mix. He did say he was going to fight this year. What do you say that? On Fox? I want to say after the fights, yeah. He did say. I don't rule him out just yet, and I'll leave it at that. Connor McGregor not fighting.

Hollow is fighting on December 2nd. TJ just fought. DJ's not fighting because the TJ's situation, and he does have an opponent. Roe's not fighting. Tough finale, early December. And then there's Amanda Nunes and there's cyborg. So do they do Amanda Nunes versus Cyborg? Possibly.

Do they do Cyborg versus Hollyholm? and figure that out maybe or do they pull a rabbit out of their head and try to get Tyrone Woodley to fight and is his shoulder healed? I mean, those are really the options. As of right now, this is what Woodley said on the Post-Fight show.

The quote is, you might be seeing me this year at some point. Just stay tuned. It's funny how they always call the guy, you know, who they criticize when they need them most. But yeah, we'll see. Yeah, I mean, look.

But it's unfortunate, because this is usually a big card and it shouldn't take this long to get this card done. Yeah. It's... And you just lost Dominic Cruz. God forbid we lose the Habib fight. The best one would have been Connor versus Tony.

Knocking on the wood. I saw, I saw Dana talk about it. Dana said, look, that was the plan. Connor fighting December 30th. I said it a million times before the fight. Even his team said it. But as Dana put very well, you know, you get $85 to $100 million, plans change. Yeah. And, you know, right now

it seems like the plans have changed. How do you feel about 280 characters on Twitter? Are you a fan of this shift? Okay, I'll tell you what I'm not a fan of when people recognize that they have the 280 characters and then they post something stupid where it's like a poem or a song and then it gets cut off.

Oh, I'm so happy. I'll say this. As someone in the news business who usually uses Twitter to disseminate news, yeah, I'm very happy about it because sometimes you're trying to write something quick and you got to fit it in 140 and it's very frustrating.

Now, as somebody in the news business Yeah, right. Okay. No, I'm asking you, sorry. I'm not in the news business. As you are somebody in the news business, isn't there something to the limiting of it to 140 characters and you link to your further thoughts?

You have your further thoughts, but it's not in the body of it. Sometimes you're writing a quote, sometimes you're writing something where it doesn't fit. You don't want to break up a quote. Yeah, that happens often, but then you have to do the dot, dot, dot,

That's fair. That's fair. So it makes life easier. I don't think that I have abused it. I think I got, you know what happened? I got it earlier than a lot of people for some reason. And then everyone got it last week and then guess what? It went away from me. And so for like five days last week, I was back to 140.

It was very strange. And they didn't want to make a big stink about it because I feel like everyone would just laugh at me. And then somehow it came back. It doesn't bother me. People who abuse it with like the silliness. that bothers me. But from a news perspective, more information in the better.

I feel like 280's fine. I wish that they would just give Donald Trump 140. But other than that... There's a lot of people I wish they'd just give 140. But... Yeah, I'm fine. I'm okay with it too. I feel like Twitter is still going to be about brevity

and not everybody is going to use that. That said, I know you're annoyed by, you know, some people using the funny thing. There's been some good ones. If you... Law and Order SVU, their Twitter, put out the opening of the show, you know, the...

these officers of the special crimes unit, it was amazing and they put the dunt, it was great. Some people have done it right. And by the way, it reminded, you know what it reminded me of? Because I got it first,

and then everyone got it. It reminded me of when I went to Syracuse University. As a student, my first year and all, like, you know, the brady Americans wanted to drink and go crazy. And in Quebec, the drinking age limit is 18. and so I had already been exposed to this for years.

I mean, it's really just recommended like 16, 15, and you're all good. And so everyone's like, ah, let's go crazy. Alcohol, we're so excited going nuts. I'm like, you amateurs, you know, this is old hat for me. And that's what last week felt like when everyone got their 280. I'm like, you know what?

I've been there done this, all right? I have two questions for you. Are you familiar with the, I remember my first beer meme? No. Because that's what that was, which is great. I'm into it. All right. But second, you realize that those people,

had been drinking before that, right? Well, they certainly didn't act like it. Yeah. That's embarrassing for everyone involved. That's another question and another debate, but, and they're acting like a good. But, you know, legal drinking age in America is

Well, just like those people, you know, who I met 13 years ago, a lot of you on Twitter were acting that way, and you should all be ashamed of yourselves. That was it. All right. We're done. Thank you very much.

Appreciate it. Nice swag. Is it swag or swag? I've heard swag. but I say swag. Yeah. It reminds you of that great Reebok commercial when they say,

this is swagger. You know that one? I'm familiar. Oh, my God. Honestly, in the history of sports commercials, is that one of the worst? I mean, it's just,

the most amazing thing about that commercial is that they had another commercial, an old commercial. They took out that footage. They put in Sage and Cynthia and Francis, but they kept the same freaking copy.

This is the UFC. Like, what is this? Got it? Get it. No, what is it? Get it. Get it. It's just so bad. It drives me nuts. How could they make something that's so bad? Anyway. And they had to play it like 95 times.

It's stuck in your head. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe you want to go to my local sports authority and look for Reebok gear, ultimately not fine. Oh, the C store. That's the promo. Oh, is that the promo? All right. I'm done. I just lost my voice. Thank you very much. You can hear my music. What a day it has been. All kinds of news broken. on this Monday afternoon. Jack Swagger flew in just to appear on this show

to tell the world that he is now a member of the Beltor MMA heavyweight roster. How about that? What a mensch. What a great moment. What an exciting moment. Was I afraid

that someone would leak this information before the program? Yes, I was. Someone would pull an Ariel Hawani. Yes, I was. But we did it. We worked them. Congratulations.

All the winners this past Saturday. Some great victories, Dustin Porier, Matt Brown, Andre Arlowski. We didn't even talk about Junior Albinis diapers. Come on. How was that not in Rick's picks? I was laughing uncontrollably. Like, stream.

I just couldn't take it. It was hilarious. The best part was John Anick and Paul Felder, who did a great job, by the way. Just trying to ignore it, but you could tell they couldn't unseeing. it. It was just great. Anyway, what a great day. Thank you to all our guests today. Thank you very much to Dwayne Ludwig for stopping by.

Thank you very much to Steve Mazuli. Thank you very much to Jack Swagger. Thank you very much to Rampage Jackson. Tiki Goshen. Congratulations on the deal. Thank you very much to Cub Swanson. Good luck on December 9. Thank you very much to Mackenzie Dern. Good luck to her on December 8. Thank you very much to Michael Bisping. The great Michael Bisping. Good luck to him, November 25th. Thank you very much to Michael Carter Williams. And of course, thank you very much to Jimmy Rivera. Back next week, same time and place.

Until then, I say, Pes, Amadia.