MMA Fighting - The MMA Hour with Ariel Helwani- Episode 424 (Part 3)

Episode Date: March 6, 2018

Ariel Helwani speaks to Georges St-Pierre (00:45), Luke Rockhold (31:10), and Darrion Caldwell (46:43). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hope you're enjoying the show. All right, my friends, no time to waste. Without further ado, as I said at the top, it is always an absolute honor for me to say hello to our next guest, to have our next guest on the program. Last time we spoke, he was sitting right over there in studio, just days removed from becoming the UFC middleweight champion, defeating Michael Bisping at Madison Square.

Garden at UFC 217 and just days after that he was no longer the middle white champion. He voluntarily vacated the title. He talked about some of his health issues on this show and in a press release, but we've been dying to know what's up with George St. Pierre. He is the pride of St. Isidot, Quebec, Canada, and he is kind enough to be joining us on the phone right now. Always a pleasure. George, how are you, my friend?

I'm doing very well, Ariel. Thank you for the nice introduction. Always, my friend. It's always an honor to have you on the show, and I thank you so much. I know you're so busy. So thank you so much for joining us here today. So first things first, right off the bat, George. How are you feeling? How is your health? Yeah, it's a lot better. I start doing, I'm on medication, but I start doing intermittent fasting, and it helped me a lot. And a lot of my symptoms are gone and I feel a lot better. However, I lost a lot of weight. And, but I'm very, very ripped, you know, like, it seems like the cause of that was probably the fact that I tried to eat so much and force myself to eat, to elevate my weight and, and with that stress and everything, I don't think it was a good thing to do for me. I learned from my mistake.

So how much do you weigh right now? Well, I'm about, I'm about, I'm about in between 180, 180. Like one morning, what I do is I do one, I do an intermittent fasting. So I do one 48 hour and one 24 hour every week. So, and I keep, I train. So what I do is I drink only water with Himalayas salt. And it helped me a lot to get rid of my symptoms, like all the stomach aches and everything. So for people we don't know, I had like, I was diagnosed with what they call an ulcer colitis.

So I think with the medication and the intermittent fasting, that's the way to get rid of it. Are you still on the medication now for the colitis? Yeah, I'm still on the medication. I have to remain on it because the doctor said that to me. However, I'm going to have another appointment with the doctor in a few weeks to see, but I'm still on it. You know, he told me to stay on it, but I do feel a lot better. Because if you remember when we spoke during my training camp and after the fight, I was having blood, like chunk of blood.

And when I used to go in bathroom, it was so bad I had to go get checked up. I thought I had like a cancer or something. I was very worried. And plus I had like very bad stomachache. It was very bad. Like it used to wake me up during the night. I couldn't sleep much. And now I feel a lot better.

all the symptoms, most of the symptoms are gone now. Have your doctors told you that this is directly related to you putting on that weight and fighting at 185? In other words, if you never came back and never did this and never put on the weight and fought at 185 that you never would have gotten sick? I don't really know. It's like, what it's called medically, it's called ulcer colitis. It's a condition.

They don't really know exactly what it caused it. They believe it's the stress and also the stress. and also the fact that I tried to eat so much that, of course, did not help. But a lot of people that doesn't fight who doesn't try to force themselves eating has the same condition as me. So they don't really know what caused it. You know, one thing, though, for sure, is the fact that I, that I'm doing a program now from another doctor,

Dr. Jason Fong from Toronto, we give me a program. He's a doctor that treat diabetes and people with cancer with these type of treatment. It's a fasting program. And he said to me that he had very good result with athletes, that people that are athletes and do the same program. So I was curious, and I use it as an experimentation, and it does feel very good. All my inflammation are gone in my joint when I train,

and it feels much better now. However, I'm not as heavy as I used to be. I used to be in between 190, 195. Now I'm in between 180, 185. When you were in the studio a couple of days after the fight, after you won the belt, you're doing media, did you know already that you were going to vacate the title? Was it just a matter of time in your mind?

The thing is, I'm going to say it like it is. I could have kept the title for one year and walk around with it and take the sponsors and be on the spotlight and say I am the champion and the truth is I don't know like I knew I had a condition

I knew I would have probably to lose weight because I was forcing myself to eat like crazy this is not the way I eat naturally and I felt like I was I had a lot of water retention I was like I felt like I was a little bit in flame I was not in my natural weight and it's not an healthy way of living

you know so the reason why I vacate the title is I didn't want to put the division on old and I didn't want to you know I didn't want to make people wait for me you know and even though I could have done it I didn't want to I didn't want it to be that guy

I always been very vocal about the fight, being for the fighters' condition, you know, try to improve it and everything. And I didn't want to be the guy that stole the division. Because everybody tried to make money, tried to make out for a living, you know, and I didn't need to do that. You know, I don't, my life doesn't depend on fighting. I don't depend on fighting. I live very well. I have a few business on the side, and I didn't want to be the guy that stole the division.

That's why I vacate the title. That's exactly why. But as far as if I will defend it or not, I don't know where my weight will be when I will get back. You know, I don't know, like, if I would be 185 or 170 or maybe 155, you know. So you say when I get back, does that mean do you plan on fighting again at some point? You just don't know when? Is it accurate to say that you will fight again?

I think so. I think I will fight again. just depend of my health condition and everything is too soon to say now but I feel much better now

I feel much better now as we talk than I used to back in a deep when I after my fight and I was very worried you know like I always said I I would prioritize

my health over my performance and I was worried about my health I was like man is something wrong with my body. I don't feel good. I don't feel right in my own skin, you know? Do you want to keep fighting? Would you be disappointed if that was your last fight back in November?

No, I will not. I will not at all because I want to, like I said, it's for something that excites me. It needs to be something that elevate me. Like I said, the fight with Michael Bisping was a big risk, but

he had the potential to elevate elevate me, elevate me as a fighter, as my legacy. And that's why I took the fight. I think it was a great opportunity. It was a win-win opportunity. I could have lost, and it could have been a disaster, of course. But I was confident that I would have put the work on, and it would have been a win-win.

I had a lot to risk, but had a lot to win as well. If I come back, you need to be a fight that I have a lot to win. Not only a fight that I have a lot to lose and not much to win. So as of right now, has the UFC even come to you or your management and said, okay, where are you at? What are you thinking? What can we plan for you? You know, where's your heart?

Have there been any discussions about your future at all? There were not discussion now, not that much, very seriously, that I have to took seriously because I need to wait for my condition to see where my weight will be at, where my health will be at. I'm still on medication right now, so I can't fight right now. as we talk, you know. Because I'm sure if I go back, even though I start feeling better, I go back fighting with the stress and everything, bang, I will probably go right back into it.

So I need to wait a little bit, see how it feels to be stable for a longer period of time. It seems like every time Dana White has asked about you, there's some sort of, I don't know, tension or resentment where he says you just came back for the money, which seems to me like a strange thing to say, about a prize fighter, a person who literally fights for money. That's what you do.

That's how you make a living. Do you see these comments? And if so, how do you feel about them? It was for the money. The money was there. And also, like I said, it was a win-win situation. It was a situation that I could have lost a lot. You know, I put my legacy on the line.

It was very risky. It was an idea that started first with my coach, John, hour he said you've been fighting at 170 all your life one of your main criticizes was that you never went up a weight class why don't why don't you try to take on the champion at 185 and I thought it was a great idea to shut it shut down one of the criticizes and had a lot of time to put on some weight and that's what I did and I changed my way of training I tried to to make myself more more excited as a fighter more importantistic

as someone who can finish fight you know actually not not win in decision that was my other criticize and I wanted to win by finish and I and I believe I answer both of this criticizes in the same time that's why this fight I'm very happy about the result of that fight because I for me it was a win-win situation However, if I would have lost, I would have lost big. It was a risk. I took the risk, and Dana maybe he's not happy about it because he doesn't control me. Maybe he's used to deal with people that he control, but he doesn't not control me.

I don't depend on fighting. I don't need the UFC to live my, to live. I have been there than that, but I don't depend on fighting. I have other stuff on the side that has nothing to do with UFC. and I don't need to fight for the rest of my life that I don't want to. George, what do you say to the critics who say that you never were planning on defending the title? Regardless of your illness, that was never something that you wanted to do. That's not true.

I was supposed to fight with Robert Wethacker. In a fight game, you never know what's going to happen. Even Robert Wethaker, you saw that he had an injury. You know, like you saw it. It's some stuff, sometimes that happened that you don't control. it. You know what I mean? You never know what's going to happen. I didn't know what's going to be to be with that problem with the ulcer colitis because for many months my weight was up and I felt I felt good. You know, I was like I was walking around 195, almost 200. I was feeling

good. But I believe it's the stress of the fight that made me feel bad. Like all the train camp, the interview because when I'm in when I got a fight coming up I'm I'm the type of person who get very emotionally involved and maybe that's what gets to me and it got me sick. Do you regret coming back George considering the aftermath, the sickness? Yes, you won. Yes, you made history. Yes, you made a lot of money. But considering your health, which you said is most important, do you regret doing this? I do not regret it. Like I said, my health right now is It's much better. My condition is much better.

It's under control. And I do not. I think it was worth it. It was a win-win situation. If I would have lost the fight, I would have maybe regretted, but I won the fight and I'm very happy. I, even if I would have lost Ariel, you know, I have this idea behind my head that I wanted to go back. I wanted to fight again. And, you know, I...

At least if it would have been for only one more or I wanted to do it again. You know, I felt great, and I felt like I had more to do, and I'm very happy. I know I did not regret it. I don't regret it. One thing that I really wanted to ask you when you were in studio, but unfortunately we ran out of time so I can ask you now, after the fight was over, you were caught on camera just in the middle of the octagon, and you sort of stayed there a little longer. You looked around.

It looked like you were taking it all in. Why did you do that? And what were you thinking while you were doing that? A lot of family and friends coming to see me. And a lot of them, they were, like, taking picture of me in the octagon. And also, a lot of them, I told them to come see me after the fight, to come close, because after we would get together, to talk and to, you know, to get together. So a lot of them, what they did is they came down,

and I wanted to see where everybody was at, and had a different group of people coming to see me. So that's why I spent a lot of time. And for me, it was very special moment. It was like four years. It was fighting for a new title. It was a very special moment for me. And I was in New York for me.

I always wanted to fight in New York. You know, it's like my second home because I trained there for like a big part of my life. So it was very special. That's why I took so long to leave the octagon. Considering all your great accomplishments in MMA, where does that one rank? Now that you've had some time to digest it, are you most proud of that accomplishment? Is that number one for you? I think it's my number one, yes, Ariel.

Definitely because after four years, I shut down a lot of the critics. And I, you know, it was in New York. And it was just, like, it was like a fair retail, you know. For me, it was a great moment. And I had to go over many obstacles and during that training camp and it made me very proud. To me, if you come back, George, there are three great options for you. Of course, the champion at 170, Tyron Woodley. There's always the Connor McGregor's super fight.

And I think a fight against Nate Diaz would do incredible business because of your history with the Diaz brothers. Do any of those fights interest you? The fight with Nate Diaz doesn't really interest me because I beat Nick Diaz. And logically, it's not a risk worth it to take for me because if I beat Nate Zias, it's like normal for me. You know what I mean? It's like people expect me to win. But if I lose, I lose a big part of my legacy. I lose my name.

I think it's not worth it for me. It's not, logically, it's not worth it. What is the other one? Tyrone Woodley. Yes. Tyro Woodley, in the beginning, before, I wanted to fight Tyrone Woodley like a few months, a few year ago. I wanted to fight Tyrone Woodley.

We even text each other. However, the idea of coming back at 185 was put in my head. and then I thought it made more sense. So that's why I choose to go at 185 because I fought at 1-70 all my life. And if I put my legacy against someone, it needs to be something great, something like the guy needs to be accomplished something special.

Like if I put my legacy, it's a risk, I want it to be worth it. You know, if I fight, against a guy who's fight at 1-17 Tyrone is a great champion, but I feel like if he fought won the boy, he won the fight, but his last fight were not, were not fight that made history. You know, they were not, the fight, he won the fight,

it was great, but he felt like it was not like a special, like a special fight, you know what I mean? So for me, that's why I choose Bisping. I had a lot more to gain fighting Bisping than fighting Tyrone with Lee. That's why I choose that fight. And what was the third one? You said to me it was the third one. I'm sorry.

Yes. The third one was Connor McGregor. That's the one that continues to come up that people think would do the biggest business in the history of this sport. And I know I asked you about him in studio, but here we are a few months later. Be honest, George. Is that on your mind? Do you think about fighting Connor?

Would you like to fight Connor? The thing is, Connor McGregor, money-wise, I believe, is the one that can put the more money on the table. However, I think legacy-wise, I don't think it's the guy that legacy-wise. I mean, money-wise, for people who are not a huge fan of MM-A, they know who's Connemagreger. Who he is, is the main guy. He's the guy that he brought the sport to a different level, you know. Like, he's the most, I would say the most charismatic guy. He sells, the biggest seller in the sport.

If you talk about legacy, if I come back, for legacy, that's what interests me the most. More than the money, money, yes, it's good. But if I would come back, it would be more for a legacy match. You know, let's say, I don't know, you talk about the Diaz brother. I know Diaz has been offered to fight for the title. Let's say Nick come back, fight for the title, or let's say Diaz, for me now it's not a good fight because it's not a risk to take. It's illogical.

But let's say he come back and he win a title or he accomplish something great. Now his name is higher. His brand is higher. Now it may be more worth it. You know what I mean? That's how I see things. So what do you think the chances are you fight in 2020? 2018.

I will because it depends on my, the condition now that I have. I have to wait to see if it's stable, if it stay in good condition, and we'll see after that. But it's fair to say that you are interested in fighting again. It depends on your health, but you haven't closed the door on your career. You haven't retired. Yeah, I haven't closed. I haven't closed the door.

And also, I will have to think about what weight. You know, like 185, 170, 155, or what would be the weight. I've won the title at 170 many times. Doesn't mean I cannot go back and try to go for the title. But for me, now as I'm at the end of my career, if I do something, it needs to be something that excite me, something that is a win-win situation, that you know that can elevate me. I've said it many times.

I know I repeat myself, but it's the truth. Sure. Is there anything right now that excites you right now as we speak? Well, right now, I can't fight right now. And things in the MMA change very rapidly, Ariel. You know what I mean? I don't know who, like, maybe in a few months, a guy will win a title and he's going to be the new big, the new pound-for-pound king, and maybe that will excite me.

You know what I mean? Who knows? The only thing I see sometimes, I see some guys that have opportunity to do great stuff, and they don't take it. You know what I mean? Like, and then... What do you mean? Like who?

Can you tell us, like, who? Well, I, I've learned, I've seen through the Internet, like, there's a guy, like, I think, Nick Diaz, they offer him a fight, I think, for the title. But Nick, Nick, right now, I've been, David, there have been talked to fight. fight for me to fight against Nick. For me, fighting Nick now, it's not, I have nothing to gain because I've beat him, he lost many of his last fight. It's not worth it for me, and he's a pain in the ass.

You fight a guy like this, he's a very skilled fighter. He's a big pain in the butt, and it would be a risk not to take for me. It would be stupid for me to go fight him. Let's talk about this way in a smart way. However, from his side, if he comes back and he has, achieve something great, like, I don't know, a title or whatever, and now it makes more sense. You know what I mean? It's a lot of the guy they want, like a lot of guys, they want to fight me, or they want

to fight Connor, or they want to fight guys that brings them the money, but they have not accomplish anything special. Like, I mean, they have done certain things, but they need to accomplish something that will excite us to go fight them. You know what I mean? I understand. I understand. That would be worth the risk to put the legacy on the line.

Right. I completely understand where you're coming from. I would be remiss before I let you go. A lot of guys in this business are real, like when we talk, they're like, oh, he's a coward, is this, he doesn't. Like, man, if you plan your career with that sort of mentality, you're going to finish broke. and lost and physically broken.

Like a career, it's not a straight line. It goes. Sometimes you have to fight certain guy, then you go, then you come back. Oh, you're fighting this guy. That's how it is. That's why having a good manager and a good manager, it's important. It's not a straight line. It's not about who got the biggest balls.

It's not an ego sport. People think, oh, it's an ego sport. If you fight like this, sometimes even if you're the best fighter, doesn't mean you're going to win every time. Sometimes you can fight, you can lose. Even though you're better than that guy, but that particular night, he will beat you. So that's why you need, especially when you've got a lot to lose,

you need to measure the prongs, the prone and cons. Is it worth to take the risk? It's calculated. That's how I took my career, and that's why I make a good living out of it. I never, I'm not a kind of guy, oh, this guy said that about you, I can't put him in the ring with me, I'm going to fight him right away. That's not how it is, you know. A lot of the people think that way, but they're not going too far.

The people that are behaving this way, of course, they will say it in front of the fan, oh, I'll fight anybody anytime, but it's not the right attitude to have. And I'm saying it in front of the younger fighter that are listening, this is not the right attitude to have. It's a sport that you, man, you need to calculate your stuff and make good living with it. Sort of on that note, George, before I let you go, I'm just wondering, I know that you took a break

and are taking a bit of a break, but have you heard about this new group called Project Spearhead that are trying to get the fighters to maybe unionize, led by Leslie Smith, Cajun Johnson, who trains at TriStar as well as a part of it? Have you heard anything about this group? Are you interested in what they're doing? I have not heard anything

I'm sorry I I've been busy doing a certain other other stuff that has also I've been training but I've been also doing stuff that has nothing to do with fighting on the side to assure me of my future sure I've not I've not I've not I've not hear about it okay what are you doing that like for the next few months

what are your what's at the top of your list what's most important for you to do right now well my LL I'm in good, keep myself in shape and my health, and I'm doing a bunch of stuff on the side. Like I said, like for business stuff, like real estate, other business. I'm going to launch different stuff companies. I'm involved with different projects that has nothing to do with fighting that are there for business on the side to assure me for a future.

You know, and I think it's important. Every fighter should have something on the side. the side so they don't depend on fighting you know they if they get hurt or anything happened they have something they can they can rely too and and last thing because he's calling me out right now on Twitter he is saying that I I am not doing my job if I don't ask you this question do you have anything to say to Ben Ascran who has been very vocal about wanting to fight you he continues to ask for this fight even though he's not in the UFC so please he's going to come after me if I don't ask you about him he's

tweeting me right now saying to do my job and ask you about him what do you have to say about Ben Ascran's challenge to you. I'm glad that you brought it up. And Ben-asked him, I don't understand why he's not in the UFC, because he's one of the best Walter Waite in the world. And I think it has to do with maybe a problem that he has with Dana White, you know, but he's one of the best fighter in the world. And if there's a guy that in my career, I would have, you know, for my legacy, I would have been good to fight. It would have been Ben-A-Skra. because he beat everybody.

He beat all the guys at Bellator. He beat all the champion outside of the UFC. But unfortunately, I think he has a fallout with Dana. And he never had a chance to fight in the UFC. And therefore, he's stuck, never went to the value that is supposed to be yet. You understand? He's a guy who's extremely, extremely. A talented, very dangerous guy, but nobody knows who he is because he never been exposed to the public.

But he's very good. And in order to have a fight with me, I would have like him to be exposed to the public. So a stock goes up. So if I fight him at least, it's a win-win situation. You know, otherwise you fight a guy who extremely dangerous who nobody cares about, who nobody knows who is. It's sad, but that's the real way to look at it. And the reason I'm saying that in your interview now is because I want him,

I want people be aware of who he is. I want him to have a chance to fight in UFC to go and fight against the big dogs, the big boys of the sport. And I think he's certainly in the top five, maybe the top three in the Waterway Division. So are you saying, George, if the UFC signs Ben Ascreen, this is a fight that interests you? Is that what you're saying here? Not a fight that will interest me now. because nobody knows who he is.

Nobody knows who he is, but if they would have given that chance to fight, to show his skill in the UFC, I'm sure he would have, maybe it's in an apathetical way. Maybe he would have lost, but I believe he would have beat a lot of the good guy and his name would be up there, yes.

Wow. So maybe they sign him. He fights a couple times and then he fights you. In Montreal, Olympic Stadium. What a scene that would be? A great scenario. But Ben Ask Wren is, it's unfortunate because he's a guy that, he's extremely talented.

I don't know what's going on with him and Dana White. I know they had a fall off, but he's very, very good. He's a guy that for sure, I'm sure he, and it's sad. I don't know what he did to Dana or what's going on, but maybe I think it's because he has a bad temper and he answers back. sometimes you just have to learn how to let go. You know, if something said some,

if Dana said something bad about you, you take it and you don't piss them off, you know? Like you have to roll with it a little bit. And I think he didn't, he did not do it. So that's why he's there. Bradley, I'm not sure. A good lesson for all of us, George. We will leave it at that.

Thank you so much. Again, I can't say it enough. Such an honor to pick your brain, to have you on the program, George. Thank you so much. I'm glad to hear that you're feeling better. hopefully if you want we'll see you back in there this year

Lord knows the sport can use you around it's always a little more exciting when you're around so get well soon enjoy your time off and whenever you're ready to announce something you always have a home here on the MMA hour Hi man stay stay tuned thank you everyone thank you so much George there he is

the former UFC waterway champion the former UFC middleweight champion in my opinion the greatest of all time George St. Pierre stopping by dropping knowledge on a whole bunch of stuff so great to catch up with him All right. Let's move along to our next guest. We've been keeping him waiting, and he waits for no one. He is the face of Polo Ralph Lauren, for God's sakes.

He is the face of Polo Ralph Lauren Cologne. We're talking about Luke Rockall. Look at that face. I mean, holy smokes. That is a face worth advertising. There he is. Luke Rockhold. How are you, Luke?

I'm doing well. I'm sorry for keeping you waiting. No problem. No problem. Good stuff by George. Yes. kinds of fired up. But let's talk about you. So congratulations. You've been hinting at this. I noticed that UFC 221, you were wearing polo shirts. You look very nice and clean, but now it's

official. So tell us, what is your relationship with Polo Ralph Lauren. It is what you've just said. I'm the new face of Polo Blue fragrance, amongst other things that I'm sure will be to surface soon. Oh, there's more. Like George said, like George said, diversify yourself in this board, it's not always there. So you work out, you know, you take what you can get. So there's more to come. We haven't heard everything. Yeah, there's always more to come.

This is a big deal. How difficult was it? How difficult was it to get this? This is a big deal. It's a big deal. I mean, it shows how far our sport comes. Break down that door. A lot of people have no understanding of our sport.

And, you know, that was the big turnoff in the first place. You know, it wasn't that that that that which almost scared them away from me. So I went to, I had a lot of interviews and went back and forth between me and quite a few different actors and public figures. And Ralph liked me. You know, I had the meeting with Ralph and I got the green light. You met with Ralph himself, the Ralph Lauren? Ralph himself flew me out and flew me out. out first class accommodations everything and uh you know they prep me for a meeting with ralph

and uh it's pretty pretty legendary meeting me in the old life self were you nervous super super nice quite you know i'm i fight on the biggest stage in the world so i'm prepared for many different meetings and by the way what about that commercial you're with the girl you're on the balcony what was it like to shoot that did you like it uh it's not a bad thing to do uh hold on one second P.I. Okay. Right there. We're pulling up to the P.I. Institute.

We're a little lame on the travel with you. I'm sorry. I'm doing some recovery workout here while my last couple days in Vegas. Okay. So are, are you going there for the first time? This was my first week here. So I'm working with Heather. And I'm doing a lot of some rehab on my legs,

which are pretty messed up from the fight. So it's doing what I have to do. So let me ask you about the fight. Have you watched it since it went down a couple weeks back? Um, I have, I catch. I caught it, yes, a couple times. What went wrong, in your opinion? There's a lot of things.

I'd say I just, I could see what he was, where he was coming from. And then I just, I just got tired of getting pushed back, and I decided to plant myself and try to, you know, catch him in the moment. And I got caught. I got caught by the big shot. He was coming hard No, this is it, sir

They blocked us off here at the PI. I don't know what's going on there. Is it because Maybe because you're talking to me? I don't know. Yeah, it's probably you. No, they've conned off the entrance somehow, some way.

But, no, I just, I got caught, man. Let me get going here one second. Okay. Frozen there. Hold tight, area. Hold tight. Okay, I'm holding. I'm holding. We're talking to Luke Rockhold as he enters the UFC Performance Institute in Las Vegas.

They better open that door up really fast. This is the face of Polaroff Lauren after all. There he is walking in as we speak. Do you want me to ask you questions or should I wait? I'm ready to go when you are. Okay. Do you feel like him missing weight played to his advantage? Do you regret taking the fight under those circumstances? It is what it is at this point. You know, I don't know what his process was, but I don't know how hard he really tried and pushed, but I put myself through it. It always plays a factor. The whole weight cutting process and birth was pretty annoying. They haven't conformed to the new rules.

It's a new commission. They don't understand the sport, and yet they don't conform to the people that have been doing it for fucking decades. AIDS. So it's for the better health and performance of fighters. And so, you know, we had to make weight and stress out through the staging process like the old days. And definitely it's not the best situation. We stayed depleted for a number of hours, medical checks and staging. You know, the wayans are part of the hype. It's part of the interest. You want to get the people excited and to see us on stage depleted. It's never a good, never a good look. So I was pretty upset on that whole process.

But who knows, you know? He felt strong. He felt big, and I didn't feel my best. One last thing. Like I said before, the weight cuts are... Go ahead. The weight cuts are getting to me these days. Yeah.

Okay. So let me ask you about that. You talked about 205. Alexander Gustafson called you out afterwards. Will your next fight be a 205? Looks like it. Looks like it. Do you have a fight?

It looks like it. Then we also had Mr. Michael Bisbing opened his mouth and say that he was willing to fight me at 205, 85 or anywhere. And you know that's a fight that if it's on the table, I'm going to have to jump that to the front of the line before I do anything else. So if he can back up what he just has said,

I'll be very well. willing to take that fight anywhere, anytime that, obviously, where I'm permitted to fight. But I have a little time, a little break I need to take about, but they say I should be cleared by, I'd say, international fight week, early summer. Okay. Something like that sounds about right. It's a good retirement stage for BISBING, and it's a good return for me. So why don't we do this thing in style?

Let's sign on the dotted line. Wait a second. Has this been brought your attention? Have you been offered this fight? I know this is a fight that the U.S. is pursuing. Oh. So we'll see.

We'll see if Bisman can back up his mouth once again. So you're saying the dream scenario for your return fight is international fight week. Same card as your friend Daniel Corby against Steve Miotich, July 7th, Las Vegas. You versus Michael Bisping 3, the retirement fight going down. That's what you want. That's what you're asking for. Let's make it a little more intriguing. Oh.

Let's bring it to 205. Oh. Another layer to the. the rivalry. The third fight at 205. No cutting weight. I like it. You like it?

I love it. Has that been brought to your attention? Has that been offered to you? This is in discussion. Wow. Do you think he's going to accept? If I heard correctly, oh.

He better back it up. Wow. This is something. Okay. This excites you. Excites me very much. Okay. And any health concerns after the knockout?

Do you feel okay? overall? It felt okay. Yeah. Just obviously I'm bummed out and took some time to decompress. My legs pretty jacked up, you know. Man, man felt like cement. I thought I could really take his movement and I'd force him to wrestle more.

And it wasn't the case. You know, he caught me on the first check, but then I kept kicking it. I don't know. The man felt like cement. That's all I got to say. Okay. What do you try? I heard my legs and I had to work.

I had to work around my kicks and I just didn't put it together like I should have. And could I ask you just, what did you think about afterwards, the kiss? And I don't know if you heard what he said about you afterwards, about why he kissed you that you were on his hit list. How did you feel about that afterwards? In that state of mind, you're not really, you're trying to gather the information. And for him to come across the cage like that, it's just, it's ridiculous. And for them to let him come do that.

I'm not a big fan of how he carries himself. He's a bit fake. He's not really saying how he feels. I am who I am. And like or hate it, but it is what it is. For him, I mean, I heard what he said. And Hawaii was coming after me, and I opened my mouth. I said something.

But guess what? You know, he's the man who opened his mouth and was talking shit. When I had the title, and then he went and get the, pop for steroids. So, yeah, he got, he got by that somehow, but fuck off. You know, you know what you're putting in your body.

Don't, I'm tired of people like this, just trying to find loopholes and ways around these things and all these guys, Anderson Silva, Roe Romero, John Jones, these guys know what they're putting in their body. You know, I'm sick of them, just, there's so many loopholes in the sport.

You know, if you win, you can always find a way around it, it seemingly. me. I don't know why get a pass in this sport. A lot of guys are getting these passes in it, which I'm not a fan of. I've always fought clean. I've never cheated my way through the sport. I've done everything the right way.

And unfortunately, not everybody follows that path. Very last thing for you, Luke, and I appreciate it. Sorry for going a little over. Do you have any message for Alexander Gustafson, who called you out after the knockout, said he'd like to fight you introduce you to 205. I know it seems like Bisping is what's, you know, on your mind and what's being talked about, but anything you want to say about the Gustafson callout? I like it. I like it.

I think it was pretty petty coming after me so early. I don't know if he's trying to get under DC skin, but I'll be coming. I'll be coming to 205. I'm going to handle my business with Bisping and then better to be damn sure I'm coming for that ass too. Okay, so are you done at 185? Have you fought your last fight at 185? I don't see it coming back, man. The weight cut. too much on me. Wow. As you get older, your bones get bigger. It's just, it's not, the last couple of cuts have been pretty brutal on me.

So I couldn't, I had trouble regulating my body temperature and all this shit. It's just not fun. It's not a fun cut anymore. I like to, I like to be faster, stronger. I'm a different fighter at 205. That weight cut is, it's taken a lot on me. Wow. Okay.

Well, some big news there. Also big news about your Polaroff-Lornd deal. Congratulations on that, Luke. very happy for you. Enjoy the riches and spoils that come with being an international superstar model. We're seeing the picture once again. I mean, look at that pun on it. It's something else.

Good luck over there at the PI, and thanks for doing this. I appreciate it very much. And good luck getting that. Please tell us. Please keep us posted on that. That's pretty big news. Let's do it. We'll be coming soon.

You can back it up. Let's go. All right. Thank you, Luke. All the best. There he is. Luke Rockold. How about that? Nuggets galore in that one. Last fight at 185 was the last one.

Seems like he's moving up to 205. Says that a fight against Michael Bisping has been discussed. It is on the table for July 7th. International Fight Week. Bring it Alexander Gustafson. And I know what everyone's thinking right off the bat. Well, what about your friend Daniel Cormier, who's the champion right now at 205? But less we forget, Daniel Cormier said on this program, not that long ago,

that he'll be done come next March. That's at least his plan. So let's be honest. Cormier's fighting heavyweight come July 7th. Let's say he wins that fight. Well, maybe he defends the heavyweight title. Maybe he doesn't. But if Rockhold fights July 7th,

basically the point is, by the time Rockhold is a contender, he'll have to probably fight at least twice, at least at 205. Cormier, if he stays true to his retirement talk, and we all know how, you know, retirements in fighting go will probably be gone. So I don't foresee that being an issue as much of an issue as Cormier fighting at heavyweight with his friend, you know, Kane Velasquez,

still a player despite not fighting since UFC 200. So that is very interesting. Do you want to see Michael Bisping versus Luke Rockhole July 7th? Is that a fight that you like for Michael Bisping in what would be probably his retirement fight? Interesting. All right. Good stuff there from Luke Rockhold. Plenty more show to go, my friends. Plenty more show to go. Still to come on the program. In around an hour and change, we're going to be joined by Mike Goldberg, the voice of Belltor.

Talk about the passing of Bruce Connell, the longtime UFC producer. I think it's very important to honor him and to talk about him and for people to understand just how important he was to the UFC broadcast that we watch. almost every single week now. At 450, Chris Cyborg. Talk about her big win. At 4.30, Mackenzie Dern will stop by. Talk about her UFC debut. 410.

We're going to talk to Nick Newell. But now, let us go back to the Skype machine and say hello to the reigning, defending Bellator Bantamweight champion, the man who is victorious on Friday, the one and only Darion Caldwell stopping by. How are you, sir? What's up, Ariel?

How you doing, bud? I'm doing great. Thank you for coming on. Congratulations on the performance. I know you were very confident going into that fight, but be honest now, did you think you'd finish him that quickly and that way via guillotine? I mean, that was a one-sided dominant performance. Were you expecting that?

Actually, no, I wasn't expecting that, you know. I thought he'd be a little bit more of a challenge, but you can't really gauge when, you know, you just watch someone's film, you know, how to gauge once you get your time. your hands on them or once you're out there, you start blowing. You just, something just, it's just a little different from that and, and watching the guy's fight, you know, so. So are you almost disappointed?

Are you almost disappointed that he wasn't as great of a challenge as you expected? Absolutely, you know, especially after that first fight, you know, when I won the belt, you know, I went from a five round dog fight, you know, with Dante's to, you know, pretty, pretty, pretty much dismantling this guy. But that goes to show styles make matchups,

you know? You know, that kid still got a lot of juice in his tank, you know, so big up to him for coming out there and, you know, trying to fight,

but, you know, he's 35-pounders aren't big enough, you know? He's just not ready. Is this also maybe a product of you just getting more comfortable

as champion in Belator? And now we're, we're really starting to see how good you can be. Does that come into play at all? You know, definitely that cave savaginess, you know, being in there, you know, multiple times in year, you know, having just done four, five months ago, now I'm back out there.

So I just felt that home, you know, being in that cage. As you mentioned, you are a big bantam weight. How much weight do you have to cut typically? Like, how bad are those cuts? Honestly, the cuts aren't bad, you know. Okay. But I do cut a lot of weight. I mean, in college, I'll wrestle at 149, you know.

So, you know, obviously when you're wrestling and cutting waiting for a fight, they're pretty different where, you know, getting that hour to replenish and rehydrate, you know, before you got to wrestle, you know, at 24 hours, you know, it's just a lot more things you can do with that 23 hours, you know. But, yeah, I'm obviously on a Big 35, you know, I can get anywhere up with 175, 180, you know. But, you know, the goal is just trying to stick around as close to the 60s as possible, you know.

So the cut isn't as bad, you know. You don't have to go through a weight cut before a way cut. You know, when you're trying to get yourself down from 175 to, you know, fight can't wait, which is about 55, 60, you know, and then having to get down, you know, that last week for the cut, you know. But it just makes everything easier the lower you are, but, you know, it's doable. know, they're 24 hours, give it a few of the time. But I'd like to go, you know, eventually go test myself, obviously at 45, you know,

once we finish, you know, with the rest of these guys. But, you know, if whatever's clever, man, I'm ready to scrap, you know. I don't got no marries or no bruises, you know. It was a pretty easy fight, so, you know, ready to get back after it whenever. So let me ask you about that because during the, post-fight interview is very interesting to watch because in the middle you're talking about what's next. Chale's asking what's next. And then all of a sudden you're flipping the burden. It seems like you're talking to Patricia Pitbull. What was going on there? What was he saying

to you that led you to react that way? Yeah, man, he was just mad, you know? Obviously, the spider just got dugged out, you know? And then, you know, obviously there's been some shit talking over, you know, back and forth from here, his camp in mind. So, I mean, it just seemed like for him to, you know, even say anything while I'm interviewing is disrespectful, you know, if we want problems, you know, let's negotiate that. Let's get our management and volunteer to involve and let's make it happen, you know. I'm all four fighting this guy, you know. Obviously, I'm a huge 35 or, you know, I fought five times at 45.

I'll rest of that's 149 in college, you know. So going up to 45 for me, wouldn't be a big deal to go ahead and take this guy out. Is that what you want next? If negotiations, you know, get, you know, getting care of, then why not? I'm all for that fight. Are you interested in staying at 135, or do you feel like there are greater challenges for you at 145-155? Well, I just want to fight everybody, you know? I don't want to keep fighting the same guys at all.

Yeah. You know, but, be honest, that whole portrayal. tricky pit bull, there's nothing really on my side against the Patricio brothers or whatever they, the pit bull brothers, whatever they call this. I just want the belt at 145. So if he ain't got the belt at 145, he can keep it pushing. Like, you know, it's no fight for me. Like, I just, like, he's standing in a way of me and my, me and my goals.

And my goal is to be a two-division chance, you know? So let's make it happen, bro. I'm down for that. Like, you know, again, I already said I'm down for it. You know, it's nothing really against him personally, but he's in the way of my goal. So if he's still there when it's time, let's make it happen. It's not going to go on my way to fight him when that's not really the goal is to fight a Patricia. Like, you feel me?

I don't care less about him, but, you know, he's just in my way. And by the way, Darren, if you don't mind, can you just sit back a little bit because you went forward and now we only see your mouth? There we go. That's perfect. So you don't, so you're saying, you don't want to fight? Because wouldn't fighting him be for the belt? Absolutely.

Well, it just depends. Like, you know, let's say, I thought he had a fight. Apparently, he doesn't have a fight lined up. Oh. I thought, you know, I don't know. I thought he had a fight against the guy who had him against the real thing. He wound up, you know, sleeping him or whatever, you know. I forgot that guy's name, you know.

Maybe he made him whitech or something like that, right? But I thought he had, I don't know. I thought he had a fight lined up. So if you don't got a fight lined up, let's make it happen. All right, champion versus champ. What I'm saying is, like, you know, if he's not the champion, when it comes to time, if he loses, like, somebody, like, I don't care to fight him.

Like, he's not in the way at that time. But he's in the way right now, so that's what I see. I stand in front of me with that 45-pound belt, you know, and I need that. I see him tweeting about you. Do you see him tweeting about you? Yeah, man. I just feel like I can make myself.

clear, you know, saying what I got to say. Sure, sure. You have problems we can make it happen. Like, you know, it's not that big of a deal. Like, you know, it's just another body to the closet. He said, it's funny how these guys talk shit, and once there's a real possibility to fight me, they become cowards in front of the cameras and try to make people believe I'm after them. Caldwell, Chandler, the list goes on.

Look, man, me in the fight game, man. I don't, if his words got to be said for shit to happen, then that's so, then so be it. But look, I'm ready to fight whoever, you know, if it's the right thing for me and my camp, like, if it's not the right thing, you know, I'll stay at 35 and continue to beat these guys up. But again, I'd rather fight as many people as possible,

rather than go back and beat Baby Joe up for a third time. Sure. baby Joe Tamanglo who also fought on Friday and was victorious. Let me ask you, there was a fighter on Saturday in the UFC named John Dodson, who's a contender at 135, who fought the last fight on his current UFC deal. I know you were busy this weekend, but I do understand there's some interest there. Is that a fight that you would love to have? Would you like to see Bellator signed John Dodson so you can fight him?

I think that would be an awesome fight, honestly. Obviously, I watched John Dodson growing up, you know, and coming up in a sport, you know. So for him to be a softball as he is, as fast as he is, you know, I've kind of, you know, obviously try to learn these game early on, you know. So fight against John Dawson, that would be cool with me. Bellator, bring him in, and let's make it happen. You know, I'm down to beat all these guys, you know. If he's on a list, we'll bring him over, let's make it happen.

And they should get an immediate shot, if anything, you know. I agree with that wholeheartedly. Have they said anything to you about Michael McDonald? I know he broke his hand, but is that someone that they're targeting if he can get back in relative short order? Have they said anything about him? Michael McDonald, after his last performance, I don't think he really proved himself that he can beat these top guys in Belator. Joe, he's going to have to fight a Joe Warren. But I don't think he could beat Joe, you know.

I don't think, and that's my opinion, you know. I don't think he could beat the ego, you know. That's just my opinion, but, you know, if they want to give him the fight, let's make it happen. Okay. I'm down to fight. You know, I'm just... So you, but you weren't all that impressed with his debut in December? Not so much, you know?

Okay. I just feel like you've got to do it. Fair enough. When do you want to return? How soon? As soon as possible, you know, this summer. June, July, August. Anywhere after that, you know, that's pushing it.

I want to be active, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's amazing to watch your evolution, your maturation. You have Dominicruz in your corner. They're really getting behind you over there at Alliance. And it seems like Bellator is really getting behind you. Are you feeling the love? Yeah, I'm feeling love, man.

You know, the hard work is paying off, you know. Yeah, it's amazing. By the way, what's... I'm grateful. What's going on with that? The one thing that always comes up when, you know, people talk about you is the back. flip and the camera woman and all that what's going on with that yeah that's you know that's uh

something i'm like my management work with and deal with you know we're just going to take that day by day you know okay uh is she suing you uh yeah she she wants to sue me you know okay for you know not doing her job correctly i guess but you know all right for not doing her job correctly I mean, I don't think you should ever be in the vicinity of the flatter when, you know, there's so much emotions around it, you know. Right. Most cameramen, camera ladies, you know, they give a little bit more space, you know. I don't know why she felt to me to come under me while, you know, getting under, getting on the cage, you know, on my back facing, facing her. But, you know, that's for, you know, that's for another, that's for another story, you know.

Okay. Are you hoping to put that behind you soon? Yeah, absolutely. All right. What's that? Yeah, let's put that behind us, you know, and move forward, you know? It would be nice if Beltaur put you on one of those big tent pole shows, right? They really give you the rub, like one of those big ones on the Saturday that they do with the big dogs.

Is that what you'd like? I think I'm due for that, you know? Yeah. I think, you know, with a title defense, you know, people want to see me fight, you know. And fans want to come out and enjoy, you know, themselves, you know. So let's get out of Oklahoma, man. What are you saying about the good people of Thackerville, Oklahoma? You're not a big fan of them?

I love my, I love my Thackerville, Oklahoma fans. You know that. Like, they can hold me down, what, five fights in a row, they help me down, you know. Damn. Five fights there? I didn't realize it was that many. Sheesh. You know, them back to the bag, Joe fights, you know. Damn. It's all good, though. I love Oklahoma, you know. But I definitely want to start venturing out into the, you know, other states in the in the Maine world.

Yeah, I'm looking at your list of names here where you fought. Mulvane, Kansas, Temecula, Hedalgo, Thackerville, Mulvane, Kansas, Temecula, Hedalgo, Thackerville, Vane again, Thackerville, Thackville. You're due for like in L.A., a Chicago, a New York. You're due for one of the big markets, I think. I think you've earned that. And that's what's up. Yeah, me too, man. It's going to happen. All right. Well, congratulations on the win, Darren. It's another impressive one. I would argue maybe you're most impressive considering who the opponent was. And, you know, the idea of you going up to 145 is super interesting as well. So good luck with everything from here on out.

And again, congrats on the win. Enjoy it. Thank, Darry. appreciate you for having you all, man. As always, for sure. There he is. The reigning, defending, Bellator, Bantamweight champion. His name is Darianne Caldwell. He's one of the very best at 135 pounds, just 30 years young. And he's coming off. You know, Leandro Ego may not be the biggest name in the world. But, man, he is a tough son of a gun. And he, I mean, two minutes and 36 seconds, submitting him in the first round via guillotine. That is something to be proud of.

So we'll see what happens next. They are gathering some names at 135. They recently signed Michael McDonald, as I said. Didn't seem all that interested. But I'm very curious to see there's not a lot of big names that hit the quote unquote free agent market or at least fight out their contract. And John Dotson is one of those names. He said on Saturday that he's kind of set on staying in the UFC. He wants to stay in the UFC.

But you never know how these things go. And so we'll see. John Dotson versus Daryon Caldwell. both fight would be very interesting. And by the way, Cub Swanson, who was seen at the broadcast, on the broadcast, I should say, seen at the event, still hasn't signed yet, but there's interest there as well. Will he head over to Bellator? So once again, an interesting time. Don't tell John Fitch, though. Don't tell John Fitch.