MMA Fighting - The MMA Hour with Ariel Helwani - Episode 431

Episode Date: April 23, 2018

Ariel Helwani speaks to Kevin Lee (00:05:25), Chris Weidman (00:23:49), Eddie Alvarez (00:43:31), Aljamain Sterling (01:04:03), Frank Mir (01:21:42), Fedor Emelianenko (01:36:49), Brad Tavares (01:57:56), Justin Gaethje (02:15:02), David Branch (02:30:03), Merab Dvalishvili (02:44:24), Tyson Pedro (03:04:07), Marc Goddard (03:18:57), Kayla Harrison (03:44:34) in studio, Leslie Smith (04:27:57) in studio, and NewYorkRic for The MMA [After] Hour featuring Ric's Picks (05:28:16) and the answers to your questions (05:48:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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The meeting will begin when passenger Fisher is done celebrating. 19 plus Ontario only. Please play responsibly concerned by your gambling or that if someone close, you call 1866-3-3-3-2-60 or visit comex Ontario.ca. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. It's the Mixed Martial Arts Hour with... No, mixed martial arts hour. Back in your life on this Monday, April 23rd, 2018. Hello again, everyone. I'm Ariel Hawani back inside our New York City studio.

Wow, what a day we have planned for you. This is exciting, my friends. We are on the verge of... making history. This could be a historic day in the history, the long and illustrious history of the mixed martial arts hour. This could go down in the record books, my friends. April 23rd, 2018, we have never had 14 guests scheduled for one episode of the MA hour. At this moment, we have 14 guests scheduled for this episode of the MA hour. That means that in around five hours, we could be making history. Will they all show up? Will they all show up? Will you?

it all come to fruition? Stay tuned and find out. And my friends, we have a lot to talk about. So much going on, as always, in the world of MMA, a who's who. Nowhere else on this planet. Can you hear from the kind of guess that you are about to hear from today on this program? There's so much going on. I'm in such a good mood. Spring has sprung. The weather outside is phenomenal. My Utah Jazz are up two games to one. Look at this Rudy Gobert, Boba Head. I got my Jonas DeRepko signed Jersey over there. Thank you very much to my good friends over at the Jazz, Derek. everyone for hooking us up. It is such a great time to be alive. And my friends, as you know, as I have said many a times on this program. And by the way, look at the hand over here. It's like a

bobble hand too. I am a man of my word. Let the record show once again that I am a man of my word. I always have been. I always will be a man of my word. When Habibnur Magamatov was in studio just a couple weeks ago prior to UFC 223. He looked up at our wall and he said, who's this guy up there? Who's this Spider-Man guy? Who's this BS guy? Right? He said that. He said, when I win the belt, that guy has to go. And you can see right there, he is gone. And I said, when you win the belt, I will honor you and I will put you up on the wall. So my friends, to start off today's show, let it be known, Habib Nirmagamagamadov, the reigning defending UFC light heavyweight, excuse me, lightweight champion as I dropped my papers here. There you are. Photo taken by Esther Lin,

the wee hours Sunday morning April 8th Barclay Center Brooklyn New York there it is you with gold finally

after all these years 26 and O the Dagestani Eagle himself I will now honor you and put you up on the wall stand by

okay here we go let me see if I screw this up here it is let's see come on no no

no there it is screwed it up again standby I will get it I promise like a glove it's hanging

I don't know if we'll make it but it's good for now how's that yeah good enough it's kind of hanging might need some reinforcements someone wants to come help out

but there it is there's two little wires and I only got it on one in the interest of time here. But there it is. Habib Nirmagamayev on the wall. Congratulations. I'm a man of my word. You are now immortalized, my friends. Okay. So, who do we have?

What do we got going on today? Oh my gosh. 14 guests. I'm so excited as you can see a pep in my step this afternoon, my friends. Two in studio guests. Leslie Smith. Wow. She has been in the news. We'll talk to her at 445, 415. We'll talk to Kayla Harrison. Harrison and Smith in studio. that's a two-time Olympic gold medalist. That's the first American judica to win an Olympic gold. Kayla Harrison, she'll be in studio, and then it'll be Leslie Smith.

4 o'clock Mark Goddard will be on. 3.45, Tyson Pedro will be on. 3.30. Merab Dawishvili will be on. Talk about that crazy ending on Saturday. 315, David Branch, knockout, Saturday. Unbelievable. 3 o'clock, Justin Gachie, coming off the amazing

fight against Descent Poye last weekend. Brat Tavares, 2.45. I believe he asked some news. 230. Fyodor Emilianenko, 215. Frank Mirr, 2 o'clock, Algeman. 1480, Eddie Alvarez. 120, Chris Wyden. Unbelievable. But first, my friends, let us not waste any time. Let's talk about the star of the weekend. Let's talk about the man who went into Atlantic City, New Jersey, who fought in the main event for the third straight time, who went in there and thoroughly dominated Edson Barbosa and ended up winning via fifth round TKO via Dr. Stoppage. The man is known as the Motown

phenom. He is kind enough to be squeezing us in this morning. He joins us for the second week in a row via the magic of Skype. He is the one and only Kevin Lee. Let's go to Kevin Lee right now. Say hello to him. He joins us, I do believe, via the... There he is, Kevin Lee. And you know what's funny, Kevin? Someone emailed me today and said, can you ask Kevin Lee how many mugs he owns

and how come every time he's on the show he's drinking out of a mug? So now you're not at home, right, Kevin? So that's a portable. Is that a loner of a mug? Yeah, I'm not at home. I'm in the conference room, but, you know, they got good mugs here too. Good mugs, good green tea. It's usually what you catch me drinking, probably green tea or coffee.

Green tea, okay. This is green tea here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, the good stuff. All right, well, enjoy that. And we enjoyed the victory. We enjoyed the performance. What a win it was, what a performance it was.

But first, let's start with Friday. Of course, it didn't go your way as far as the wayans were concerned. Could you tell us what went wrong? Because you remember on Monday we were talking about it. You said, no nutritionist, I'm good. Tell us what happened. You know, I think it was just, it could have been some adjustments that I could have made, especially on the timing.

I think I just had that timing down. The timing was off a little bit too much. And, you know, my scale was a little bit different too. When I wait myself on my scale upstairs, I was almost a pound and a half. have heavier than what I thought. So it just was minor technical difficulties really when it came down to it. It didn't even, my body never like reached the point where it was breaking down. It just became that I ran out of time. So compared to what you experienced in October prior to that fight against Tony Ferguson, this wasn't the same kind of trauma that you were bringing upon

your body. No, no, it wasn't nowhere near the same level, especially. You know, they were throwing boiling hot water on me for that. Tony person weight cut. So, I mean, it wasn't nowhere near that level. I felt like I could have still pushed. I felt like I still could have went. The New Jersey Athletic Commission, for whatever reason, doesn't allow that extra hour, which I wasn't really clear on.

And, you know, the hotel that we were staying at, they wouldn't even let us in to use the sauna until, like, 545, something like that, when they promised that they let us in at 5. It was a lot. So, minor shit. So you didn't know about the fact that New Jersey. Jersey doesn't give you the extra hour because it's crazy. If you were fighting the prior week in Arizona, you would have had more time. And I feel like this has become a consistent issue where

you're walking into these different states. Every state has a different rule and you guys aren't educated. So no one told you beforehand that you didn't have that extra time? No, I didn't understand that. And I didn't, you know, like you said, when you go into these new commissions, you don't really know the rules until you get there. So, you know, when I talk about a weight cut as big as mine, it takes weeks and weeks or weeks to plan. You know, even if they tell me the day of, it's like, okay, well, I've been planning for six weeks. I've been cutting his weight, you know, to get down to a certain level. And I feel like I have it down to a very scientific spot because I try and spend as least amount of time dehydrated.

You know, guys are going to sleep because these wands are so early. Guys are going to sleep completely dehydrated the night before. I just think it's terrible for your body. So I try my best to mitigate that and cut it close. And I just, you know, the time factor could have been explained to me a little bit better. Are you going to change your stance as far as not hiring a nutritionist after going through this again? Or do you still feel like you're better off without one? I probably will, especially for the week of.

I'm definitely going to need one just to get that extra little stress and that extra little load off me and not have me doing it. A lot of the notes that I look at and things are from old weight cuts. And I'm just getting bigger. So there are definitely going to be some adjustments that could be made. But 155 I'm here to stay. So that was actually my next question. Go ahead. No, go ahead.

Oh, I was just curious. Are your days at 155 numbered? Until they do it 165? I mean, I don't see what the holdup is on 165. But I can make 155 for at least the next couple years, I think. think. I don't see myself getting any bigger than this. And I'm already as lean as I can possibly

get. It's just about leaning out the muscles a little bit more. But I don't see no gross spurs or anything happening. So 155, but I'm here. No interest in 170. Not, not really. I mean, 170's there. If there's like some good fights, but 170 is so log jammed, you know,

you had that bullshit interim title going on. And, you know, you got Kobe. If he, if he fuck around and win it, you know, you'll have maybe, I mean, I'll see to fight with Kobe, but he got his hands full right now. So it's too much going on up at the top of 170. I'll wait. What do you say to people who say, yeah, okay, it's one pound, but you walked into that fight with an advantage. I believe fighters who have misweight in 2018 are undefeated thus far in the UFC. It sounds crazy. One pound, how could that be an advantage? But there are people

who believe you cut it short, you don't go for that grueling last pound, you're walking into the fight with an advantage. What do you say to those people? it wasn't you know it wasn't no cutting it short uh i i and and and uh barboza's manager was there he could see me going through it you know what i mean it's one it's one thing to to say that a guy isn't really working towards it or he isn't putting in that work you know and guys just like oh i hit 161 i'm just like okay i'm done or i don't have it in me to to do it's just i literally ran out of time so you know it's still the same amount of of work that was put in to cutting the weight uh and barboza's manager can see

that. So if they didn't have a problem with taking it, then, you know, they didn't have a problem with, you know, then it's a fair contest. Okay. Let's talk about Saturday. Phenomenal performance. Is it possible that was your best performance in the UFC? I mean, I guess, yeah, to the, it was the best that I thought that I put forth, but I've had some ones in my opinion that I've overcome a little bit more and pushed through a little bit harder. But, you know, yeah, it was, I mean, it was decent. You know, I'm always critical of myself.

I mean, I thought it was decent. I'm only critical. I always think I can get better in every area. So when I went back and I watched the fight, I look at every spot that I felt like I could have got better in. I mean, I'm taking the praise and I appreciate all the, you know, all the love that I've been getting, especially on social media. And I mean, even got to, like, reach out to half the people.

But, you know, I'm still not satisfied. Okay, what bothers you the most? Like, what are you most critical of as far as your performance is concerned? I wanted to knock him cold on the feet. I wanted to show, especially after the third round, he got a good shot in. I wanted to knock him out cold. I ended up winning the rest of that third round,

I thought, and I think most of the judges thought, even after that big head kick. And I showed that I can outstrike the man. But in the fourth, I went back and approached it a little bit smarter, but I wanted to knock him out cold. How dicey was that kick to the head? You know, we've seen all the gifts, you know, the Bambi and all that. How, what was going on in your mind?

How worried were you? I'm still feeling it. I mean, he kicked the shit out of me. I ain't gonna lie. I mean, Barbose is explosive. You know, I was setting up my knockout shot and I took my focus off of them for half a second. And at this level, especially with a guy like that, that's been one of the things that my coaches have been saying to me for a long time. and that's one of the things

I even had to keep reminding myself of during the actual fight you know a reporter asked me he was like you know it sounded like you were in there talking and I wasn't talking about Bose I was talking to myself you know I was I was reminding myself

of those things to stay sharp and not get caught with something but for that split second I looked away and yeah he ringed me wow so you're you were actually openly talking to yourself throughout the fight

you know I didn't think people could see it But I guess so because I've had two reporters already asked me and the guy asked me like immediately. I didn't think people could see it. But yeah, I mean, I'm, I taught him myself a little bit. Is that something that you've often done? Or was this the first time you've done that?

Each fight is different. You know, sometimes I talk to the other guy. I wanted to say something to Barbosa, but, you know, he was too nice of a guy and he was taking a whooping. I didn't, I didn't want to, like, insult the injury. I was going to leave him alone. But, you know, it's, yeah, I feel like I'm very aware. when I'm in there, you know?

First two rounds, in my opinion, were 10-8 rounds. Are you surprised that he was able to, I mean, even throw and land a kick like that and even be around? Like, were you thinking, like, what do I need to do to actually put this guy away? Yeah, I mean, he was one of the strongest dudes that I think I've ever faced. It's just that it's a different type of explosiveness that he has. And it's something that I admire a little bit in him, and something that I was trying to sit back and watch and see how I can pick up things to steal,

from him. Because even when he's dead tired, he's very, very dangerous and you've got to stay in your piece and cues. So, yeah, I mean, he did his thing. I mean, he showed up the fight. You know, I gave respect to Barbosa all the way through this, but I give him

even more respect afterwards. That man showed him to fight. So you said that you're still kind of feeling the effects of that kick throughout the entire fight, the rest of the fight, is it fair to say that you were kind of out of it because of the kick? No, I was right back. in it. It maybe took me 30 seconds or so right when I grabbed hold of them and I ended up

getting them down. I was right back in it. But, you know, like I said, it's just, you feel the effect when, you know, it's just swollen. It, you know, it hurt. But other than that, I'm all smooth. That's back to back pretty one-sided losses for Barbosa. Is it almost at this point in your mind? Like, is he too tough for his own good? That's the kind of stuff that shortens careers, no? Yeah, yeah, he took a weapon. And I kind of took it a little bit easy on him to it, you know, after that. It was like during the second round, I could see he was taking a whoop. And I didn't want to keep hitting that man like that.

He's a nice guy. I wish him nothing but the best. Yeah, he's taking a whooping these last two fights. But he's going to come back and he's going to knock some dudes clean out. I mean, Barbosa is still one of the toughest guys in this division hands down. I think if anything, this is just going to make him tougher. You know, once his body heals up, he's still only like 31, 32. too. The man still has a lot of years left if he wants him.

He's just going to heal up. He's going to come back stronger. And it's a couple more knockouts away, and you never know. You might see one, seeing him up there again. So it sounds like obviously you have a lot of respect still do, a lot of respect for him. Have you ever felt that way in a fight before where you almost felt bad in the midst of the fight and you didn't want to inflict as much damage as you could? No, I think, yeah, one other time when I was an amateur, one or two other times. But that was just me kind of, you know, growing up and getting, getting more used to it.

But yeah, no, that was about the first one at this level, for show. You know, he was a sweet dude. I couldn't say really take much bad about him. I asked you last week, you know, what it would be like without Robert Follis, your late coach. And you said you could only really answer that question after the fact. So what was it like? It was more surreal, you know, like I said, I did a lot of talking to myself even before, during. after and a lot of it was in his voice.

When I got hit with that kick even, you know, the crowd and everybody else screamed and went wild, but it was kind of his common tone that kind of kept me in there and made sure that I kept my eyes on them, no matter how bad my legs wobble or my body wanted to shake. You know, so he guided me all the way through it and the victory is still for him. And I felt like I truly felt that way going into it. and I think it showed during my performance. Wow. That is pretty amazing. So afterwards, you said it's Chbibib time.

What are the chances in your mind that you actually do get Chbib next? I think it's big. I think it's still up there. We're going to see. We're going to see how the whole thing shake out with Connor, I think. That's the X factor. He's already talking about Kabib want to sit out. I know he's got Ramadan coming up and all that. I was hoping September and Russia, you know, I could be ready for that.

But he wanted to sit out to November, match the square garden. I get it. I ain't going to stop a man for making no money. They got Connor coming back. How much are they going to have to pay Connor? What type of numbers are they talking about they're going to get in return? I think right now it's going to all come down to a numbers game and the second behind that. Because I'll take that fight for a fraction of what Connor would and I beat the fuck out of him for it.

So, you know, we'll see. We'll sit back and we'll be smart about it and approach it in the right way. But I think it's there. So if they do figure out a way to get Connor in there, what's a proper consolation prize for you? Like, what's the next best thing in your mind? We'll see. I mean, there's a lot of fights out there, a lot of options.

We don't see. I mean, there's Eddie out there, right for the picking, easy for the beatings. So I don't know. We're going to see. If Eddie can lose some weight, maybe we can get in there. Wow. Wow. So you think that way, you think he's too big for $155?

or you just, you caught a glimpse of him this weekend? You know, he just even said that he's just fat. You know, the man's like two inches shorter than me. And he, you know, he's talking about he walking around one night. I've seen him there at the fight. He's round. You know, you haven't seen, if you haven't seen a round little Philly fella before, I did on Saturday night. Wow.

Did you get a lot of crap after missing weight? Because I saw a lot of people throwing the, you know, when you talked about championship level performance and things like. that. And it seemed like you got a lot of love on Saturday, but Friday, did you get a lot of crap? I mean, I get shit for everything. So, I mean, it's, you know, on Saturday, too. It is what it is at this point. I'm just rolling with a punch. Sometimes you got to, you know, sometimes you're going to get kicked in a head. So, you know. What about that 20%? How much has that hurt you having to give that up? Not getting the bonus kind of, it kind of irritates me. But, you know, I think that that's a, I just don't, I just don't see that, that system being, you know, okay.

But the 20% is, that's in my contract. I understand that. You know, I kind of knew that going in. It's not being eligible for the bonuses and all this, because it doesn't take away from the performance, I feel like. But I was put on a hell of a performance. And I feel like, you know, you could have gave a man some scratch for that. You know, he went out there and he could have easily, like, turned away during the first round even gave up his neck and it would have been done but barbo that stuck in there for five four

rounds and took a beating on that and he's he can't get a fight at a night bonus because of a you know it's not even a rule it's just like a you know it's kind of like in good faith or something you know sure yeah discretionary i get i get what you're saying so this was your first fight um post 216 post that fight against ferguson which obviously didn't go your way do you feel like now you got your mojo back i mean you strike me as the kind of guy to be honest who never really lost his mojo but to get back on track, get a W, and do it in that fashion, intimate event against a guy like Barbosa, I would imagine now you kind of feel like, okay, everything's back to normal, right? I mean, I kind of felt like this.

It took me a little bit to get over the loss to Ferguson, obviously. But as soon as I did, that's when I started feeling like a champion again. I wouldn't even approach this fight had I not felt that way. Because when you, you know, I already knew in my heart of hearts that I, that I, that I was going to win the fight. I still had that championship mindset going into it, I felt. Yeah, it kind of validates it a little bit, I guess. But to me, I'm not even all that happy with the performance. So, you know, I'm on to the next one right away. What is it about Habib, Kevin, in your mind that you continue to call him out? It's amazing. People, I remember the first time,

like, before you were even on the show, I was like, why is Kevin Lee talking about Habib? That is crazy. And here I'm eating those words. Like, you've been calling him out since you weren't even ranked. What is it about this guy that makes you so confident when you think about yourself fighting him? I just know it. I just know it. I mean, I can see him. I don't know. I just

know it. You can call it a vision. You can call it whatever you want to. I just think that's going to be a big fight. It's going to be a big fight in my career. And I want to be the one to take away that, oh, there's been a couple of guys that I've had my eye on for a long time that I mean, I see him going through it. And I'm like, oh,

yeah, that one right there. that's going to be the that's going to be the cake and kib has been that for a while and you know we've kind of gone a lot he's avoided me a lot up until this point but now it's getting to the point where it's unavoidable and uh it it's i think it's scaring his whole team really wow uh kevin congratulations on the victory man uh really impressive stuff way to rebound from uh 216 and uh you know i i hope you get what you are looking for next it was uh it was a lot of fun to watch that was dominant stuff appreciate it very much and and also thanks for squeezing us in i know you're very busy this morning. So really appreciate that as well. Have you gone to bed yet? Have you gone to bed

yet, Kevin? I haven't been asleep since this. Come on. Since before the, I slept maybe like an hour and a half on the airplane. As soon as I landed in Vegas in a car, like I had three hours. I maybe got something to eat. Was in the car on my way to L.A. It's a rock star a lifestyle. So I'm just, I'm just living it. All right. Well, good to be young. Enjoy it, my man. Thank you. We'll talk to you soon. right, brother. All right, there he is. The Motown Femnon himself. What a performance on Saturday gets Etze Barbosa dominant stuff and he rebounds very

nicely from the loss to Tony Ferguson back in October. So our next guest was in attendance on Saturday at the boardwalk hall in AC. He did not fight, but he was there to support a couple of teammates. He has been in the news as of late. It has been a while since we talked to our good friend, Chris Wideman. And how

big is this appearance? He's actually back on Skype. I don't even remember the last time he joined us via the magic of Skype, but I'm told that he is standing by. So let us go back to the Skype machine and say hello to Chris Wydenman. Wow, there he is. Christopher J. Wydenman.

How are you? What's up, buddy? How are we doing? It's been wild. And look at this crystal clear of Skype. Wow. Are we home right now? Represent Apple.

Apple, one of my new big sponsors. Yeah, I bet. Oh, look at that. iPhone 10. Look at that. You got the monster. You got the hand, of course. Can I just ask you a quick question?

What is that monster shirt? Yeah, very nice. What is that painting there? You versus Maya? You have your background, you know, paintings and stuff. And I got mine. Yeah, this is, no, it's, that's Leo de Chia. Oh, okay.

Who did it? Who made that for you? That's a good question. I'm not sure. Danther. Gantir. Okay. All right.

Unbelievable. Yeah, he is. Okay, we have a lot to discuss, but obviously the hand is right in our face over there. So you had surgery two weeks ago. Yeah. Tell us why you. you had to have surgery a second time on the same injury and how is it feeling two weeks later? So it's actually feeling pretty good right now. So what ended up happened is my after my

during my Kelvin Gasone fight in round one I hit a left hook as you was coming in on me and my thumb got kind of like jammed in and it dislocated and during the process I tore a ligament. And so after the fight I ended up going to a doctor and I found out that I needed to get a surgery. So we got the surgery. They took a tendon out of my wrist and used that to create a new ligament from my thumb. And they told me it was going to be kind of a quick recovery. And I ended up being eight months until I realized that I guess during the trauma of the surgery, the bones, when they drilled to the bones, it's a very like one in a million chance.

The blood supply didn't come back to the bones. So the bones were like falling apart and it crushed all the cartilage in between the joint. And it was pretty painful for the last eight months as I was trying to. of training and and get through it. But at least now I found out, you know, there was a problem. And they went in there. They had a fuse the joint now. So they took my hip bone and they created a new joint.

And it's feeling pretty good. They're telling me six to eight weeks recovery. So it's way better than eight months. Hang on one second. Yo, Al Joe, can you please go somewhere else? What? You're killing me. Jeez.

This guy's on an interview in the other room. This is the MMA hour. Yeah, come on. Jeez, this is like the tonight Oh, John Attic said that his show is bigger than yours. What? Wow. Tell them to move.

Bro, I really can't even. Can you guys move further? Seriously, I can't hear. We've got competing interviews going on? They're not even live. It's ridiculous. We're big time over there. This is he?

Where is he? Where's stars? Wait, you're not at home? Huh? Are you at home? No, I'm in the office. I'm in the office of the gym. Ah, okay.

you guys are, you guys are crushing it today with the interviews. Okay, well, thank you for doing that. I appreciate it. I was wondering what that was. So can you tell if it is feeling better? Can you tell if it was a success or is it too hard because you're still in the cast? Yes. So I went back last week.

They took the stitches out. They gave me this cast where it's like a splint and they gave me a bone stimulator so I could take it on and off and use that twice a day to help get the bones to heal 50% faster than they usually would. and so my hip bone will now mold to the other bones and, you know, fuse that joint, I guess, at a quicker rate. And so when I take this thing off, if I kind of move my thumb around a little bit, it just feels so much better. I was in so much pain for eight months and I was always, like, every morning I'd wake up and try to be hopeful and tell myself it's feeling better. And then I, you know, and then it just wasn't feeling better, you know.

and so I'm just happy that there's a reason for why I was going through all that pain there's no more confusion and I know exactly what's going on I know there's a there's a light at the end of the tunnel now and it's not too far away so we're good can you say with 100% certainty that you will fight again that this won't cut your career short yeah yeah you're such a negative person man yes of course I'm going to fight again what this is not career this is not a career anything okay the fact that I was out as long as like at a as long as I was, is insane and very, the chance of that ever happening is extremely, extremely small. Like I said, like the surgeons I went to, even for second opinions, they said they've never seen this before in there as a doctor.

So I got unlucky, and it's feeling great. I'm very positive, and I'll be back and better than ever. So six to eight weeks, and then you can, you know, if all goes well, then you could start a training camp. So we're talking maybe if all is okay, maybe a September, October, November, perhaps even the return to MSG in November. Maybe that makes a lot of sense for you. Yeah, I'm focused on physical therapy and, you know, kind of working as many things that I can in the meantime.

And then once this thing heals, we'll start thinking about when we're fighting and who we're fighting. Okay. I know you were in attendance on Saturday, kind of a mixed bag evening for your team. it could have been a fantastic evening for your team without Joe getting back on track. Marab with the controversial ending and he ends up losing still not 100% clear on why he lost

and we'll have Mark Goddard on, we'll have Marab on as well, but I know you have some thoughts on it because I see you and Ally Quinta weighing in on Twitter. Why do you feel like the wrong call was made on Saturday for your teammate? Okay, so Marab was in a choke. He got, so in 53 seconds

he was dominating the fight, he was winning the fight. I talked to Rob about this too, so it's not just coming from watching the fight. He knew there was about a minute left, so he wanted to secure a takedown and end the fight on top. When he went for the take-down, the guy shot in the guillotine and kind of almost like DDTed him on the way down. He hit the top of his head or his forehead, and he felt his neck felt funny. So that's why he kind of rolled over to mount so quickly and easily without really defending. his arms kind of went a little tingly, he said. So the guy started really cranking this choke.

And the only thing that he could really do to show everybody that he was okay was move his legs, which, I mean, if you watch the fight, this is his character. The whole time, all he does is he's just running around the octagon like a madman, no matter what. I mean, I love watching him. He's amazing. Sometimes you want him to slow down a little bit, but this guy's 100% forward all the time. He's one nicest guys and most energized people I know. He's such a good person.

And so he was letting everybody know he was exciting. I mean, I've never seen it before. He was just moving his legs back and forth as much as he possibly can to show everybody. He's still alive. He's still there. There's nothing there. He's not out. So the time, you know, ends up winding down 53 seconds.

He's in his stroke. And, you know, the bell rings. He relaxes. He puts his head down. So now the whole time he told me he never went out. And let me tell you something. Rob, he would never lie. He is not a liar.

So no matter what anybody says at this point, when they're outside the octagon looking in and they have an opinion based on their authority, I could tell you one thing, Marab is not going to lie. So he tells me that because his neck was messed up and he felt his arms felt funny, and he also can't articulate everything the way we'd expect with the language barrier. I mean, so he said he, as soon as he bell rings, he knows he won the fight. He got to the bell. So now he's relaxing. He lays down. There's no reason to jump up and have trouble walking. he doesn't know how his arm's going to feel because he knew he hurt his neck.

So he laid down. And all of a sudden, I guess he hears his opponent saying he's out, he's out. And that's when he springs up right away. He's like, no, I'm not. And he went to post on his arm. His arm kind of went out a little bit. But now he's sitting up. He's fine.

The referee's still in the fights. I mean, the fight's over. He won the fight. They're going to go to score the judges. Now all of a sudden the two doctors come running in and they're telling him to lay down. So now he's trusting the doctors. so he lays down and he's relaxing. The referee now sees this.

I don't know what time exactly this is after the fight, after the bell rang, maybe 10, 15 seconds. Now he sees that he's out laying down after he already had the ability to get up to his feet from being in the choke from 53 seconds, I mean, get to his butt after 53 seconds of being in his position, lays down, and now all of a sudden the referee says he's out, he's over.

I don't know what made him all of a sudden decide that he could call the fight after 10 to 15 seconds after the fights early over. And I don't know if someone was yelling, something to him. I don't know what was going on. But he kept the same motions with his legs the whole time being on that choke.

He didn't, nothing changed. And he was showing, he was just showing that he was okay. And he trusted doctors, and they told him to lay down. The next day I know the rep stopped the fight. I just think that's crazy. I mean, there's so many instances where guys,

like it just doesn't make sense. Because so the ref had coming back, and the ref came back backstage and was kind of telling us that you know and the commissioner Nick Limbo was saying that the the bell can't save you so

but the thing is there's plenty of times where bell does save people I mean if you're in a choke you're in a guillotine and the bell rings and then you tap after the bell. Yeah. What happens? Yeah. The bell saved you. Yeah. If two guys getting a crazy slug fast with 30 seconds left in a

fight and they beat the crap of each other they went through 15 minutes of a war and one guy collapses after the bell rings and is laying on the floor out, even if he was wobbled or whatever, he's laying on the floor, you know, recovering, he just figures the fights over. The other guy is still celebrating. They say, okay, look at that guy. He looks very hurt on the floor right now.

Let's let he loses the fight. No, the fight's over. The judges score based on the three rounds. When that bell rings, the fight is over. So for them to all of a sudden, they change the, change what they, the fight. I mean, the change the trajectory of where the fight's going to head after the bell is already rang is just is it's crazy to me and it's another issue with rules and and and and confusion with it because if you would have known that okay they could still stop the fight because you're

lying down after the fight is already over then he would have sprung right back up but he figures the bell rings i'm going to lay down and relax yeah so it's just uh i don't know i don't understand it i mean look at bidsbing anderson yeah in between rounds andison bangs him with a knee guys completely out still they give them time to get to the stool and everything and and recover Yeah, it just doesn't make sense. There's so many examples where this wouldn't, this doesn't make sense. And he really got screwed. And I really hope they could overturn it and they see that they made the wrong decision because he, he put on such a great fight.

I'm happy he made the extra money for the fight tonight. But he won that fight. He won according to the judge's scorecards as well because they came out. So he deserves to win that fight. Yeah. And I mean, to survive a choke like that for 53 seconds, his face was. turning red, it's unbelievable. I've never seen anything like that. And I was going to bring up this being Anderson. So that's a great example on your part. An unfortunate turn of events,

we will talk to him and Mark Goddard later on. So we'll get all sides of the story here. Yeah, I'm curious. Yeah. What do you curious about? I decided to take a bite of a press over there in the interview. Yeah. Seems like a questionable choice. I read I read what Goddard came back into the backstage. He was talking to Ray Longgo and I explaining his position on it. And I, I, appreciate him being man enough to come talk to us because I know the other rap he didn't want to he wasn't allowed to talk to us for whatever reason

William Kerrigan back and he was talking to us yeah Liam Kerrigan supposedly was not allowed to talk to anybody and explain himself but Godder was kind of coming to his defense and he was saying he was outside the ring and he saw he felt like he was out

and there's this weird thing he was saying that he was trying the whole time to get the legs unlocked you know from being mounted with his legs like this. Yeah. And then he felt like it slowed down. And that's why he felt like he was out.

But if he was trying to get the leg, this is what happens. In Jiu-Jitsu, if someone mounts you and they criss-crossed their legs, you feel which foot is on top. So you can clear it because you can't see what's happening down there. So you move your legs like this, and you feel which foot is on top.

And then you take your leg and you push it off and make that leg flat to the map. That's done within two seconds. No one in their right mind just goes like this to clear the legs over and over and over again. He was clearly doing that to show that he's still there. He's showing energy and that he's not he's not choked out. So if you're like 20 feet away, you're outside the octagon,

you can't make a ruling based on what you think is happening. And no one even realized, including myself, that it was more of a nervous issue, hitting his neck than anything to do with a, anything to do with being choked unconscious. He said he was not unconscious at all, not once. And I believe him. I mean, he came to tune instantaneously when the kid finally, told him that he was he's out. Chris, true or false?

No hand injury. You're healthy. You would have fought on, I think it was February 11th in Perth after Luke Rockhold, not Luke Rockhold, excuse me, Robert Whitaker pulled out. You would have fought Luke Rockhold for the interim title. Is that true? I would think so. You know, if I, I would, I think I would have got that fight.

Does that, does that add to the frustration of the past year? You're coming off such a great. moment on Long Island, you beat Gaslam, and you have to sit out and lose some of that momentum? Listen, I just feel like I have a lot of, I have a lot of time ahead of me. I have a lot of, I have some great fights coming for myself. I feel like, I know I've accomplished a lot, but I'm still young in my MMA career as far as fights. I have a lot of great things coming. And I'm not, I'm not to the point where I'm going to start looking back and wishing, oh, if I wasn't injured for that or injured for that, injured for this, they're just

can be different. I'm very blessed for in where I am in the sport. I'm blessed for everything I've accomplished so far. I'm blessed with the abilities that I have that I mean I when I speak and say that I'm the best in the world and I have the capability of dominating everybody in my weight class. I really believe that. I mean, if I if I gave half of my energy to the sport and really didn't give 100% of my mental and my mental and my my, my, my, my, my mental and my heart to it. I could probably go out and finish the sport and being like a fan favorite and win some and lose some and win some big fights and maybe lose some big fights. But I feel like I really have the mentality and the ability, physical abilities to completely dominate my weight class.

And so I just got to get back physically first with his hand and get my mentality where it needs to be and I could run for everybody. And in the meantime, and by the way, that was a great answer. So I appreciate that very much, the candor. But in the meantime, here you are hosting on MSG, hanging out with the Knicks, playing pig with Ennis Cantor. I mean, what a life. I mean, no what's happening.

Okay. No sitting on the sidelines for you. You're very active. It's very impressive. Yeah, you know, I'm very excited to get back to as much as I enjoy, you know, doing different things. My true love and passion is this sport and competing. And it's not going to be around forever. I can't wait to get back into being healthy and training full time and giving everything I can to this because there's just something about being isolating yourself and living that martial artist's life that is something I'll I'll miss forever when I'm finally done with this. So I really want to enjoy it as much as I can get back to fighting. The other stuff is great, but I could do all that stuff after I'm done fighting. That's when I really should be focusing on that stuff.

So I'm really excited for it really get back to fighting men. Have you even allowed yourself to think about who the perfect opponent would be upon returning? I mean, it would all be wasted energy because you just never know how, I mean, look at my division. Everything changes so quickly and weird things end up happening and people get injured and people change weight classes. You just never know what was really going to happen in this sport. So for me to put energy towards kind of predicting what's going to happen and trying to have influence over that. I just feel like it's a waste of time. So I have to focus on myself, man.

And I feel like, I mean, this is the mindset for everybody. I mean, you need to focus on yourself and make yourself the best you could be. And whatever comes to the table, you have to answer that bell and be the best person you could be. And that's it. And then you can live without regret. Who do you have in the rematch? What do occur in Romero? I don't know. I mean, both guy, either guy can win. Either guy has their way to win. So, I mean, my prediction, if you really want to hear, it doesn't even matter.

Wow. Way to undersell it. I'll just say name. Let's say Whitaker. Okay. There it is. I mean, you have an expert opinion. I also put out. Yes?

I got nothing. I got nothing. I got no insight on that. I mean, the thing is anything could happen. It's a fight. That's true. That's why you get paid. That's why I see you doing, you know, analysts work for Fox.

Anything can happen. It's a fight. I mean, that's top-notch analysis there. Very facetious of you. No, no. Well, I mean, what a month? month it was. Ally Quinta stepping up on short notice to fight in Brooklyn. Al Jamein, getting back on track. Merab with a fight of the night.

Your coach, your mentor, Matt Serra, getting inducted into the Hall of Fame. You get your surgery. I mean, I have so much to talk about it. I hope you have a lot. I hope you have a lot of time for me. Or is this the end of the interview. We've got Eddie Alvarez standing by. But I was just trying to recap what a great month it's been for you. Let me just say Al Jemaine Sterling coming off a tough loss. I'm so proud of him to go out there. And really, you could see when he finally got comfortable. He started landing the fakes and stuff and drawing this guy into big shots.

It was really awesome to see him garner his confidence back and believe in himself and dominate a really tough guy. That was great to see him happy for him. Ally Quintan, man, he's like my hero for him to step on a day's notice. And to do what many fighters couldn't do with full camps against could be really show there some chinks in his armor. I feel like now people are starting to feel like Khabib isn't like unbeatable. Thanks to Al, one day's notice is showing true hard and toughness. And of course, Matt Sarah, he's one of my, he's the reason why I'm in the sport. So for him to see him get the attention he deserves and become a UFC whole fame, I couldn't be proud of.

Well said. Thank you, Chris. I appreciate it. I'm happy to hear the surgery went well, and please keep us posted on your progress there, because we do miss you. And we'd love to see you back in the mix at 185. I appreciate that. Thank you, guys.

And thank you, I don't. Thanks for having no show. All right, there he is. The one and only Chris Wybman, the former UFC middleweight champion stopping by. Hopefully we'll see him back sooner rather than later. Perhaps on that MSG show, the third one, coming up in early November.

Another man who was in attendance on Saturday in Atlantic City, man who's been in the news very much as of late. We want to hear his thoughts. We've been waiting patiently to talk to him is the one and only Eddie Alvarez, the former UFC lightweight champion, joins us now via the phone. Eddie, how are you?

What's up, Ariel? Not much. Doing great. You're not in Philly right now, even though you were in Atlantic City, correct? Yeah, yeah, I'm on the road. You're on the road. Okay, you're doing your thing. We're getting workouts in now.

All right, well, thank you for squeezing us in here. So you were in attendance. I know you saw it all, but there's so much going on, Eddie. First, like right off the bat, let's just get. it out there. Do you have any news for us? Are you

resigned with the UFC? Do you have your next fight? Because you seem to be one of those big question marks at the top. The log jam, that is the lightweight division. No, I wish I did. I'm expecting a call any minute. You know what I mean? I'm trying to

talk as much as I can see if we can get a fight going here. So I'm waiting on a call from UFC to see if they want to do something. So I'm here and I'm waiting. and I'm training, so we'll see what they come up with. Eddie, my understanding was that you were kind of preparing for Brooklyn, because you had an inclination that something would happen to that main event,

and you ended up being right. In the end, why didn't you get the fight against Habibdin-Magimatov after Tony Ferguson pulled out? I just, honestly, I wasn't, I wasn't prepared. There was no way, I can never make 55 on a 16-day- notice. Even I feel like even if, even if I was getting ready and I was ready, getting ready for that, I would have to start my weight cut already in that time. I usually, like my cut starts about 10 days out. So I would have already had the, would be, like had the foresight and the knowing that this is going to happen in order to be able to make that weight. I may not look it. And so,

Some people don't think, but I can get as high as 190 because of how much muscle I hold. I lose weight pretty quickly, but I can go up and I hold a lot of water because of the amount of muscle I have. So I was, when they called me, when they called on Easter Day, I think 190, 195 or something like that. Wow, yeah, Kevin Lee. There was no way. We just had Kevin Lee on a few minutes ago, and he said he saw you in attendance, and he said that he, he thought, and these are his words, he said he thought you looked fat on Saturday, so I just wanted to throw that out there.

Oh, I, he missed weight. That's crazy that I'm getting, I got slack, I got slack for not being to make weight on six days notice. You know, you should be able to make weight on three months notice, you know what I mean, at the very least. How difficult was it, though, to say no to the fight? Even though, like, was it easy? because it was just six days in advance.

Did you actually even think about it for a second when they called you on that Easter Sunday? No, what we did was we were discussing an alternative, like an alternative weight. The USC basically asked me, what's the lowest I can get to? What do I feel like the lowest I can get to is? And we came in agreement that if we could be done at welterweight.

There was two things that were discussed. Can it be done at Walterweight? fetch weight. And then when they talked about, no, it has to be for a total 55 mark. I had just threw around the idea of looked up when Ramadan was, and I think it starts like in May. So I was trying to play with the idea of fighting right before Ramadan so I can get to the 55 pound mark and, you know, be, be, with. what I felt was prepared for an opponent like that, you know. So that was, they were the two options.

But I believe that they already had max picked and that I was just kind of a backup. You know what I mean? Okay. They kind of, the UFC, I think, shops around. So when something like this happens, like to have damage control, they call about three or four guys. But usually they have their guy picked, you know, they have the fight picked. but they shop around so they can get the price down of each guy. Kind of like a battle, a battle for the job.

Dustin Porier was on the show last week, and he said that he was offered you in Brooklyn, and he claims that you have turned down five fights against him since your first fight back in May of last year. Is that accurate? No, I have no clue. I have no clue how many times he's been offered, or I've been

offered Dustin. I believe I was offered Dustin the first time he was angry but I was given the tough to Ultimate Fighter Show and I think that's where his all like a lot of his bitterness comes from. I think he wanted to be

on the Ultimate Fighter show and they gave me the gig and I got paid well for that and I got a very good opponent so I basically got a better opportunity then Justin, then Dustin Porre, and I took it.

And, you know, if that's ducking, then I'm ducking, yes. But I always take more money and a better opponent over someone else any day of the week. After the gate chief fight in December, did they try to finally do the rematch between you two? I think, we never got a bout agreement.

I think we spoke about it. But the only thing that we spoke about after Justin Gachie was resigning with the UFC. I never got an opponent or about agreement. No, no. They never said here's a bad agreement for an opponent. The only thing we spoke of is resigning, and we haven't come to that agreement yet. So I'm guessing there's not going to be an opponent or a bad agreement in the mall, unless I read. unless I'm ready to resign.

So when we come to agreement to resign, then I'm sure there'll be bad agreements in the mouth. But right now, there is no bad agreement. So the idea of ducking or not signing or that, that's silly. It's just silly talk. You have one fight left still, right? I have one fight left, yeah. Is there a chance that you guys can't come to terms

and you end up fighting out your contract and testing free agency again? Are we trending in that direction? Um, I, I hope not. I hope we're not trending in that direction. I would not, I'd not like to think that way, but, um, you know, I leave every option over, uh, open. I always have, um, throughout my whole career. So, um, I'm, you know, I'm willing, I'm willing to do whatever. I, I want, I want to sit down with, with the UFC and just come in an agreement. I feel like, uh, the best guys are here. And I still have a couple guys in this division that I like to take out that I want in my resume. And so I definitely have some unfinished business here. Have you sat down with them yet in this process or is there a meeting scheduled where you can actually sit down face to face and figure this thing out and you can move on with your career? No, we don't have a meeting schedule. Something I have to do.

I'm not in a crazy Harry. Okay. You know, not a crazy area. I would like to fight in June. I would like to fight in June, June of July. I thought that after these fights, because a lot of the lightweight division just fought, almost all the top five, top ten guys just for it. So I'm assuming after all this men, this is over now and everybody's fought each other, that I'll be receiving a call on who's next. So just waiting on that call.

You know who's one guy who didn't fight this month? And you're right. I mean, it's been a crazy month for the lightweight division, but there's one guy in the top 10 who hasn't fought this month. You know who that is, right? Me. Well, you. Of course you.

I mean, other than you. Nathan, Nathan Diaz, of course. Is that still possible? Is that still something? I still feel like that's possible. You know, I would like to think it's possible, but I felt like it was. I felt like, oh, man, this can really happen.

And that's when you heard me in the, media about it, but I haven't talked much about it. I just been answering questions as honest as the media when they asked me about him, but I don't feel like that's possible. I feel like he would, Nate wants one guy, you know what I mean? He just wants Connor, and if he don't get Conner, I don't think he's going to fight again. What did you make of the whole, I mean, you're obviously connected to Connor. You always will be, after you saw what happened in Brooklyn. What did you make of that? I think it was convenient for him to do what he did.

Like he would have been killing two birds at one stone. He would have been sticking up for a friend. That's one good thing. But he would also have been promoting one of the biggest fights possibly in UFC history. So he's doing two things at once, which made complete sense. I think he went there with the intention, you know, to build a fight and also stick up for his friend. I think it went a lot further than what he wanted it to. I think he threw that thing, you know, trying to be like,

oh, I'm still crazy and I'm still street and I'm still whatever he wants to be perceived as. And then the window broke and I think it went a lot further than what he wanted it to. I don't think he went there for that much to happen. If the UFC came to you, Eddie, and said, Eddie, we like you a lot. lot. We want to be in business with you. We're giving you these options. Okay. We're giving you Habib. We're giving you Connor. We're giving you Nate Diaz. We're giving you Dustin Porier. Which one do you take? What do you want the most? The one I want the most out of all them is is Kibbibb, and it has nothing to do with the title.

I just think right now, timing-wise, he's the most valuable of all them fighters. he's undefeated. So there's a mystique that he's unbeatable, which, which excites me even more. I just need to fight somebody that I get excited about Arrow. I've been fighting since I was 19 years old. So like just to say, oh, here's another fight and here's another guy and another, there's got to be something in it for me. I need to be able to get excited about the guy, like wake up early, go to bed late,

and maybe, you know, have a little fear of losing to him. I need to feel that in order to take a fight. I feel like he could be that guy. I'm assuming you watch this fight against Ally Quinto. What did you make of his latest offering, Habib, that is? I think he showed some vulnerability in the fight, especially against like a last-minute competitor. But, you know, what no one's talking about is to be,

Khabibah talks about fake champion, fake belt, paper this and paper that, and everything's fake, fake, fake. No one said that they were just begging to give him that belt because he has Russia behind him. And Russia is now going to be in open market soon, and it's convenient that Khabib has the belt. Like no one's talking about that they were just offered three different guys a title shot. and on the third guy they ended up with the 11th rank guy and this fight was for a belt. Ariel, do you think that should have been for a belt?

You know, I think they're... Completely all fair. Do you think that that fight should have been for a world title? The only reason... After Tony Ferguson dropped out. I'll tell you why I think it should have been only because Connor had the belt for so long

and didn't defend it. I think they needed to move on and I think they needed to crown a new... champion. I would like to think that if it was Habib who got hurt, Ferguson would have fought Mr. X and they would have moved on as well. Do you get what I'm saying? So I think it was just a strange situation where they really felt like they had to move on.

That's my honest. I disagree. I think if the Philadelphia Eagles show up to the Super Bowl and New England can't make it, then you don't bring the third place team in to the play for Lombardi Trophy. You have to wait. you have to be patient.

You can't tell number three, four, and five you guys now get a title shot. It just got silly real fast. Everything got silly real fast, and it made the belt quite meaningless. And now the guy who says fake champion, fake this, you know, he has a title now. They should have just handed it to him, to be honest with it. That's what it looked like. So, okay, so they did give him the title fight. He wins the belt.

And it seems like there's like three or four guys who all have a very strong case. And we have to kind of wait to see what happens with Connor and then maybe the whole thing figures itself out. Would you hate me if I said maybe the fight that I want to see the most right now in the UFC is you versus Dustin 2? Would that bother you if I said that? Because honestly, I really want to see that fight again. Is that bad? No, that wouldn't bother me at all. At this point, I just want the UFC to call me where to fight.

I kind of want to get my deal done with the UFC and then I kind of want to do what the UFC wants to do. If she says that's the next fight, then that's the next fight. I'm not, I just, I want to be in a fight that I'm excited about. Does that excite you?

Partly. Partly. What did you think of what he did to Justin? Because you just fought Justin, so a common opponent there. What did you think of his performance? Did you watch it? I feel like It went exactly the way I thought it would go, except he was able to gut it out. I didn't see him gutting it out. It looked like he was switching stance.

He was doing a lot of things that I was doing because I know how hard Justin kicks. So I didn't see Dustin gutting it out. I thought Justin would end up, Justin Gates would end up taking over and winning. But Dustin surprised a lot of people and stuck in there. So my hat's off from me. He fought well. Okay, so at this point, you're saying the most important thing, let's just get this deal done. Let's not fight it out.

You don't want to test the market. You want to be a UFC fighter. You just want something that's fair. Could you tell us if you guys are far? I'm sure they threw something out when they offered you, Habi, because they're not going to put you in a title fight with one fight left. Are you super far away, or do you think that you are actually closer than most would think at this point? They only offered me one deal, and then we never talked again. and the deal they offered was way, way off.

We were off. Okay. We were way off. It was, I mean, I signed with the UFC four years ago, and it was almost the same number as I signed with four years ago. So, it was, it was, it was, we were way, way far apart. Not even a raise? Of any kind?

It was a, it was a raise, a very minute, very small raise, small, super small, especially considering the murder's role of opponents I've had and that I was able to become champion and do what I did to see that my stock only went up, you know, as tiny as they would have put on the paper, it was just a little bit disheartening for me. So I didn't even counter. That's how it went.

Wow, okay. I don't know how much you or how often you check your mentions on Twitter, Eddie, but I'm sure this is a common thing which drives me nuts when I look at what fighters get like, oh, you're scared, you're ducking. Does that drive you nuts considering who you have

competed against in your career that anyone would insinuate? I feel like you wouldn't, you know, like it's just like to me, you lock yourself in a cage against the best of the world and you've been doing it for what, like 10, 15 years now.

Like to even get that for someone to write that to you, how do you even react to that? Does it make you want to smash your phone? Do you laugh it off? Do you not even see it? because I see it. No, I definitely see it.

I don't, I learned in this sport to not take things too personal. Usually, usually when people say bad things or people are saying it's either, A, it's a 13-year-old on the other end of the Instagram or Twitter, so it's hard to get emotional about someone who don't really know what they're talking about. Or B, they just have no clue because, um, they don't, they just release. an article yesterday about my resume. I mean, just, just read it, you know, facts are facts. Champion after champion, after champion, after champion. I literally joined the UFC and I fought nothing but champions. Honestly, Dustin Fourier was the least my, my, on paper, I believe,

was supposed to be the easiest opponent. And he's even tough. So, I mean, it's like murderer after murder I fought. And I've done it not just since UFC. I've been doing it my whole career. So for anybody to say anything about that, that's just, I mean, facts are facts. You guys, whoever said that is just don't know what they're talking about. And I will. I'll compare my resume to anyone's.

Yeah. Can you think of any other lightweight who's fought the guys that I fought back? And even if they have, I'm saying back to back to back, like there isn't. There just isn't. No, and champions in other organizations and you're fighting, I mean, no, you're 100% right. Yeah, no, you're 100% right. It fires me up to read it. I can't imagine how it would make you feel.

So I'm hoping that they figure things out. I hope you get paid what you're obviously owed and worth and that we get to see you in there sooner rather than later because, like I said, it's super interesting at the top of that division. and you are certainly deserving of a big fight. I know you're busy today, Eddie, so thank you for squeezing us in, and great to catch up with you as always, and please keep us posted if you can. Thank you. And, guys, my fans, just tag at E. Alvers fight, tag Dana White,

let Dana White know what you guys want next, and I'm sure I'll be getting a paper in the mail. So your voice and your tweet or your Instagram matters. So one by one, tweet the man, let them know what you guys want next. and more unlikely that's where you're going to get. Thank you, Eddie. All the best. Thanks, brother. All right, there he is. Eddie Alvarez.

Going to be interesting to see what happens to him next. And with that logjam at the top of 155, without a doubt, the glamour division in the UFC. I would say 155 is far and away the most stacked right now. 135 is certainly in the running as well. I made that case around two years ago on the MA beat. I maintained that as the case as far as like pound-for-pound talent. One of the contenders in that division for a while now got back on track on Saturday.

Al Jermaine Sterling picked up a very big win, an important win over Brett Johns handed the Welshman, his very first professional loss. And now he is joining us via the magic of Skype. And I come to him with my hat in my hands, with a Mia Culp. I say, I'm very sorry. There he is. Al Jamein, I am sorry for leaving him out of today's show. Aljo, do you accept my apology? I accept your apology, Ariel.

I was wondering if I needed to be a Welshman to get on the show. No, no, that is not true. I knew you had a very busy day. You were on the Anakin Florian podcast. I mean, I didn't know if you can squeeze us in. Racist! Wow, this is amazing. First, we had Weidman on, and you were interrupting, and now we had, was that Wyman or was that long ago?

That was Wyman. That was Wydenham. The one, you know. Are you using the same thing? phone as Wyden because this connection is amazing. Well, it's actually my laptop, but thank you. Thank you. Okay. Okay, most important, right off the bat, what's up with the hair?

We changed the hair? What happened? Not to say that I don't like it, but why do we change the hair? Come on, Ariel, I thought you knew. No, I didn't know. Oh, okay, my bad, my bad. No, please. Okay, so this is in honor of Black Panther. Oh, 100%.

Did you watch the movie? It's a great movie. I have not seen it. I mean, I know Wakanda forever. I know the movement, Michael B. Jordan, all that stuff, but I have not seen it. I have three kids. It's hard to get to the movies. So then you don't know the line I just said. I never freeze.

No, I don't know that line. Matt Serse, right before we walked out to the fight, he said, remember, you know, going out to war, he said, remember, you never freeze. I was like, what are you talking about? I never pleased. Was that an actual concern or was that? I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm not up with the kids, you know, the lingo these days.

But was that an actual concern coming off? Of course, we know what happened in your last fight. against Marlon, was that a concern that you would be tentative? This has happened in the sport, as you know. I don't think so. Not for me, at least. But, I mean, I think for them, maybe they had a couple of concerns, like maybe in the back of the mind that they didn't really want to project onto me.

But I think I handled the pressure pretty well. You know, I had a lot riding in this fight in terms of motivate momentum going downwards. and Brett was on the opposite end of the spectrum. He was the young, up-and-coming guy and getting a really good push. I even think, man, and he was even getting a bigger push from some of the commentators. I felt like I knew him and Paul had a little bit of, like, a friendship and a bond there. I even felt a little weird when we were doing our pre-fight interview. I felt like he was kind of giving me, like, I don't know, man.

It just was kind of like a cold shoulder kind of, it was weird, man. But I made sure I went over there afterwards and let them know, like, Yeah, I told you so. Oh, really? It wasn't just me trying to just talk myself up and told myself to believe in some shit. They kind of, I felt like they kind of doubted me, man. And whatever, that's how the sport goes. You can't make everybody believe in you.

We've got to believe in yourself. Yeah, I believe they share the same manager. So, you know, they're all part of the same management umbrella. So maybe. Okay. Yeah. That makes sense now. But so as far as your concern, though, your first.

fight back after something like that, after experiencing something like that. Early on, did you feel tentative? Did you, did you feel like you were thinking about, you know, what happened the last time? Or was it, was it firmly behind you? That was behind me. Once it got in there, I knew it was go time. I just had to find this, trying to get a gauge of his rhythm, gauge of speed a little bit, trying to see what he was looking to do. I think those first few minutes of the first round always dictate how the fight, the rest of the fight's usually going to go. At least for me,

I have a pretty good handle on, controlling the tempo of the fight. And if I want to up the tempo, I can up the tempo. If I want to dictate the pace and make it a little bit slower, I can make it a little bit slower. But it really just depends on what type of energy my opponent is bringing to the table.

And Brett was trying to strike with me. I knew eventually he was going to try to take the fight to the ground. And he presented himself by jamming in two clothes where I was able to lock him up and take him down. He actually reversed my takedown and took me down first and I swept him and ended up in his guard. I was really pissed about that, like really pissed.

That doesn't happen to me. So when that happened, I was like, I can't believe I just blew that takedown like a rookie. I tried to hit like a step behind, trap the leg body lock throw and just it, I shit the bed with that. It was ugly. And he stepped over. I was like, if I end up in Mount, freaking 30 seconds into the fight, I'm going to be pissed.

So pissed. But yeah, it got out. Yeah, it got out. And that was a pretty dominant performance. By the way, what's going on? Is Whiteman now talking during your interview because I hear him now? You know, the disrespect is real. It's unbelievable.

What's happening? Are there no other rooms at Longo Serra over there? Is it Longo Serra or Sarah Longo? I forget. This is Longo-Wyman. Yeah, that's right. Law, I'm a man. Right now, it's a woman right now.

We had to turn the music down. There's a lot of guys. they're rocking and rolling for class right now. So we had a, there's not many rooms open for, for, uh, to do interviews in here. So we're doing, doing pretty good here. All right, all right. I'll stop complaining. Join the team.

Yes, of course, of course. How good does it feel, though, to get back? Like, now you don't have to sit on that L anymore and, and, and you have the, the, how good does that feel for your confidence? It feels good, man. I, you know, I never, I never, I never believed I got outclass. by anybody in any of my fights. I don't think anybody decisively beat me. So it was never one of those things where I was like, I suck at this or I suck at that. I got to go back to the drone board

and work on these things. So I'm just really, really happy. I went out there and I was able to show more of my skill sets, show more of my improvements and how far I've gotten and come to my career. I try to keep a straight face. I couldn't do it anymore. That was really good. That was a good. Pretend it was not even happening. That was actually really impressive. I heard mixed reviews on my performance in terms of all boring and I heard a lot of good stuff about my striking and mixing it up. And that's what I was really happy. But I didn't get a chance to watch a fight yet.

Normally I watch it like the same night. But I've been busy hanging out with all my friends' family that came out. The funk bandits were in a big force. fight. They were, and you know, the funk fans were fighting in the crowd. Do you see that? What? That was your guys? Yeah, during my post-fight interview, they were fighting. I didn't realize and then I saw, I saw one of my shirts. And then I saw the video, I was like, oh, that was them. And they were getting in with the Brett Johns fans. They were, uh, Brett Johns fans, like some, some of their

family or close friends were talking shit or something. I heard that they thought, someone was thrown the, the whale's flag in our guy's face. And one of our guys got sports. And one of our guys got Spartan kicked in the chest and almost fell over the chair. And then got up and then let's just say I heard the funk band is where the funk team was two and no on the night. Damn. Oh, okay. So in the end, you guys won despite the Spartan kick.

Yeah. If you watch the video, you'll see a couple of guys getting, it wasn't good. It wasn't pretty. I think they've been watching a little bit too much MMA and UFC with the ground and found. They got the finish. They got the finish for me. All right. All right.

2 and 0 for you guys. afterwards you said you want a dominant cruise why did you zero in on him well he's a guy i've been looking up to for a very long time i think with this fight he's probably going to look at it as you know there's no real risk for him you know it's not like a it's not like a cody garbren where he could potentially get knocked out or a submission specialist i guess he doesn't think he will get submitted because of his grappling so i think in his mind he might be thinking oh this is a safer

fight i can take this fight stay in the mix to beat another guy who's in the top 10 and solidify why I should be the next guy to get the next shot even over the winners of Rivera and Marais. Did I say that right? Yeah, Rivera and Marais. So I think he might, I can lower him in that way. And he's the only one who doesn't have a fight. Everyone else is all booked up, you know? If I can do the best Nick Diaz impersonation, how does it go?

I don't think Dominic Cruz is hurt I think he's running scared Where you at Cruz So it's actually interesting That you think your performance Will will somewhat con him into taking the fight

Like thinking that you are An easier opponent than you really are Yeah At the end of the day I know what I bring to the table I know preparing for him It's a different style He's not a grappler like Brett Johns

I had to respect the grappling game Where I couldn't have just rushing the takedowns I knew he had more tricks than the typical grappler. I know Brett's willing to take those chances in those high-risk situations. He tried to set up that rolling, that rolling calf slice again. I'm like, dude, there's no way how you're going to hit that on him. I'm just not that, not silly enough to sit there and just watch you work. I'm going to counter your counter, you know, so I think Cruz would be more willing to oblige in a fight with me over a Garbrand where Garber is now getting the next title shot.

a Sun South's fighting Rob Font who else is there Rivera's fighting Mara Mara Maris. And I think that's it, man. So what are you going to do? You're going to sit behind the desk for the next six months?

It doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Not even six months. It's going to be like maybe a year for him because they fight in July and then they're not going to fight again. Oh, they're fighting in August. It's even worse. So they might not fight against for the rest of the year.

If not, maybe December. And then after that, that what are you going to wait until 2019? I think the time is right, man. Like I said, it's time for the idols to become your rivals. I think I'm ready for this challenge. I haven't beat a top five guy yet. I think this is the perfect opportunity for me to finally put one of those feathers in my cap. I love it. I love that idea. I think it makes a lot of sense and you lay it out pretty well. By the way, just curious, because the last time we talked to you, you had mentioned that yeah, you were a little disappointed. No one checked on you when you were at the hospital. Did you ever hear

from anyone after that? Did anyone ever say to you, sorry for not, you know, checking in, hope you're doing okay, anything like that? No, nobody did. But somebody actually called me from the commission. Andy Foster called me from California commission. He's a really good dude. I fought there twice now. And he was a really good dude, man. It seems like it was like a real sincere thing. And I appreciate that for sure. I told him I definitely appreciate him reaching out. Outside of that, you know, it's business as usual. I get it. Like I said, I wasn't but heard about them. I don't think they should be calling every single fight I guess knocked out.

But at the end of the day, I think my situation just looked a little bit different. It really did look like I died and they took the cameras off of me. They didn't give any updates. So it was kind of like, I don't know. It just looked bad for the appearance of everything. Outside of that, it's like it is what it is, you know. I know they don't call everybody like, hey, I'm sorry for you getting knocked and fuck out on national TV. although, yeah, and not to belabor the point, but, you know, how many guys get brutally knocked out every card?

It's probably not the hardest thing to do to call, you know, one or two a card if that's the case. Yeah, you know, you have a point. You have a point. By the way, what are you reping over there? What do you got? What do you, I see the pee on that little jug and you're sure, what are you representing? This is my pure spectrum, CBD. I made sure right after the fight, I took that, my CBD oils, post-fight stuff.

So like brain health, you know, keeping everything intact. You know, slow down. Because our body has like these cannabinoid receptors. So that's what CBD is and just make sure you take care of your body. Hey, thank you, thank you. Thank you, thank you. Thank you. And P3, my pre-workout, man.

This will get me through the day. This will got me through my training camp, baby. HPN, high performance nutrition. Yes, I like it. All right. These companies that stuck behind me, even when I got knocked out, you know, even when I lost. Um, the split decision to Sunsau and Caraway, these guys were still there rocking with me.

So I appreciate guys like that, man. Sponsors like these go a long way. It's not like these guys are just doing it for the clicks and things like that, you know. It's nice to feel like you're a part of a team and people are really there behind you. So outside of the guys that I train with day in and day out. So these are my guys, man. They hook me up with my 15% and these guys help me out with my 20% discounts on stuff and making sure my body is right. Um, come fight time.

That is great. Good to see some companies still supporting the fighters even though they don't get the love. Yes, yes? Do you see my vlogs? Behind the scenes. Yes, you did a great job. You did a great job with those. Cudos to you, my man. Kudos. I'm working on the other one. We were so in the moment with Marab's warm up, beating the crap out of one of our training partners in the back room, James Gonzalez. And we felt so bad because we knew what was going to happen that we didn't record any of the stuff behind the scenes of the pre-fight one. up. But I got a lot of good footage from that from Friday and Saturday morning that I'm going to put together also for people to take a look at. So I just, I'm trying to give the fans a more inside look of things that really go on in the fighter's life, meeting up to the fight,

the emotions and everything, man. It's not as easy as just walk waking up, say, hey, you know what, stretch out a couple of times. It's going to get into a fist fight. I wish it was, I wish that's all that went into it. But it's a lot more emotionally involved and there's a lot more things that go behind into this that people don't really get to see. And I've been getting a lot of good feedback, but I'm glad you got to check it out. No, no, I did. I meant to shout you out. They were very well done.

And the production value was top notch as well. So kudos to you and your production team for putting that together. Great stuff, Aljo. I'm sorry for holding out on you. I'm sorry for leaving you out of the cold, but I'm happy that we were able to rectify it. And I appreciate you calling me out because I deserve to be called out. And I'm happy to hear that, you know, you're doing well. and then you got back on track.

I appreciate it, my man. Thank you. Are you, who do you think I should fight next? I like Dominic Cruz. That's the one. All right. That's the one. And also, what do you think about Marab?

Oh, well, we're going to talk to Marab in around an hour and also Mark Goddard. So I'm going to reserve judgment until I speak to them. Is that fair? That's fair. But I will say this. I notice John McCarthy put out a lot of stuff that made no. sense and he has a big cult following that's not cool. When you say

stuff like that and people think your word is religion and they buy into every piece of thing that you say, you've got to be very selective of your word choice. And I think that the tweets he put out was very poor and not, I think it was not classy of him to say some of those things

because he had no idea what he was talking about. I don't think it's any way you could judge a fight like that. And one, you're no longer a judge. So you're no longer a judge. You're no longer a judge. no longer a referee, whatever it was, you're a commentator now. So at this point, you need to remove yourself from that and stop making it, you know, you're going to live in your spotlight of being a referee, then be a referee.

But at that point in time, you made a choice to be a color commentator. And the stuff you said, it had no bearings on what actually happened and transpired in the fight. If you watch the replay, you can see that the guy's eyes were open. He shot in, he hurt his neck. And like Sean O'Malley did, he heard his foot in the fight. He was hopping on one leg. his opponent decided to shoot in on him and take him down, kept him in the fight.

If he couldn't stand up, the ref would have waved the fight off. Rob couldn't, he couldn't move his arm because the stinging he had in his neck when he shot in. And he let him know, like, I'm moving my legs to keep myself in this fight because I know I'm winning. I know there's only less than a minute on the clock. If I survive, I win this fight. So for you to take that from a guy who put it all in the line, killing this guy for two rounds, beating the piss out of him from pillar to pillar in there. And then to take it away and say, because the guy got up and pointed and said,

look, he's out. He's still moving his leg, as he's saying, look, He's out and he's looking at the guy. And as soon as he says that, Marab turns to the ref. He turns to the ref. He says, no, I'm okay. Yeah, yeah. No, I'm okay.

This is, this is, like, idiot poop. I don't know how you can fuck this up. And, you know, excuse my language, because I guarantee the reps and the commissioners probably going to, might take a look at this, but, dude, you guys got to do the right thing. You guys got to do the right thing. I've seen a girl get choked unconscious on TV, unconscious where the ref and the doctors that have come in and wake her up.

She won the fight. She won the fight. while she choked out unconscious during the fight and out of the fight and could not move. Rob answered the bell. He won the fight. That's just complete bullshit. That's just unfortunate, man. That guy puts his heart and soul into this.

And to see him get robbed again for the second time in row is that's not right. They got to do the right thing. Respect you, Aljo. I appreciate that very much. No, I appreciate that. And once I hear from them, I'm going to weigh in. But I tend to side with you. Thanks for coming on.

And again, congrats, Aljo. Appreciate it. Thank you, guys. Thank you, Ariel. All right, there he is. Al Jermaine Sterling, Wakanda, forever. Great stuff from him. Okay, let's shift gears here. Let's talk about this weekend, April 28th, Belator, 198, big main event, Fyodor Amanenko against Frank Meir, a fight that is maybe 15 years in the making. We've been keeping him waiting. So let's not waste any more time. Go back to the Skype machine and say hello to the one and only Frank Meir, who will be making his Belator debut on Saturday. Hey, Frank, sorry for keeping you waiting there, but it's a very, a very tense time in the world of MMA. A lot of people have a lot to get off their chest. I appreciate you coming on. Yeah, no, man. Thanks. So, debut on Saturday.

You have not fought in two years. You're fighting Fador. Not only Fador, but you're fighting for the first time ever on a Bellator card. This is a big deal. And you've been doing this for like 20 years now. Does it almost feel like you're a rookie again? Like this is your debut all over again? Do you have those same kind of nerves and feelings?

No, I think that when you first start out as a new fighter, You're so anxious to want to prove what you're able to do. So there's a lot of pressure in that aspect, whereas, you know, I've had highs and lows, so as far as, you know, proving that I'm worthy of actually stepping into the area to have combat with another top-level fighter, I don't feel that pressure. But the pressure of always wanted to perform well is always on there. I mean, as fighters, we know what we're capable of doing. And the one thing that's worse than losing is not performing to what you know you're able to do.

You know, there's nothing like, there's nothing worse for walking back going, oh, man, that's not me. What an awful day. Because, you know, we have good days and bad days and just you hope that the luck of the draw is that you have a good day on the night you perform and keep your bad days in the gym. Do you recall, you know, how long ago you first thought, man, I would love to fight Fyodor Emilianenko. Like, how far back does this date? Well, I think the first time when I saw him fight in Ogera, I had already heard of him after he had fought Heath Haring as Heath and I. train together and stuff at the time. But it wasn't until I saw the Nogara fight where I saw him able to use his ground and pound,

really to nullify at the time. Nogera had the best guard in the heavyweight division. And I was very impressed with that. You know, you're watching Nogera at the time, you know, he's arm barring, you know, Mark Coleman, who they thought was, you know, I remember leading up to that fight. People's telling me that, oh, it's impossible. Coleman's too big, too strong, pro-rests, you know, high-level amateur wrestler. There's no way he can be submitted from the guard.

And so, you know, Jiu-Jitsu prevailed that day. And then watching Fador able to take out Nogera within his guard from ground and pound, you know, and beat him on a decision that way. It made me want to go ahead there. And then, you know, when you see something that is a fighter, the part of you goes, ah, I want to try. I want to see what I can do. I have to say it is kind of surreal to see you, you know, like to talk to you right now and you're wearing a Beltor's shirt. Like, because you are the UFC. Like I feel like there's a few guys, you know, like you, Chuck, Randy.

you guys are just synonymous with the UFC, especially when the UFC became the UFC, if you go what I'm saying? What is it like for you? Do you ever look down and say, I can't believe I'm actually wearing this? You know, had it still been owned by the fatitas, I don't think I could have ever made the move.

Let's just be honest. I'm very, you know, Frank and Lorenzo were always very good to me. And so more of a friendship even outside of, you know, and the fact, Joe Silva was a very close friend of mine for many, many, many years. And, you know, he was the matchmaker. The fact that they're no longer part of the company, they let Joe go, you know,

obviously Frank and Lorenzo no longer have any stakes in it. It made it a whole different company. So it wasn't like I really left the UFC. It's almost like the UFC changed hands, and then I just left with it. What was the goodbye like? Like, did you ever have that conversation with Dana? Did you ever say goodbye?

Thank you. None of that? You've not talked to him since? Come on. No. No. Text message? Speak to Dana.

text message. Nope. What? We've communicated through third person when I complained that no one was getting a hold of me. And then he told him, well, I've texted him back or I called him back or no. What did he say? He's never called me and I called again.

And so at that point, I just gave up. I'm like, all right, obviously, you know, it's just, it's not meant to be. That doesn't bother you? Yeah, yeah, a little bit, you know, obviously. But, you know, like I think I said before, you'd ask me that. It doesn't bother me during the deal with the suspension that no one was getting a hold of me. Yeah, it bugs you, but then, you know, real quick, it's kind of like dating a girl, right? You know, you sit there and you expect to be treated a certain way and all of a sudden she goes left.

You think right, like, oh, I thought we were serious and you're not. You just reevaluate the relationship. You're like, all right, well, I thought we were this and I guess we're not. You know, I'm not going to, you know, I just got to realize that, you know, I thought one way and I was wrong. And I'm upset because I was wrong, not because the reality of it is different. It is what it is. It is just that my perception was off. So I had a perception that I was a part of the company and very close and that it was outside of just being someone who's contracted as a fighter.

And I was wrong. What do you make of Fyodor at this point in his career? You know, he was knocked out pretty brutally in his last fight against Matt Matrione. He hasn't fought since June. You know, I thought it was interesting. I don't know if you watched the countdown videos, but he mentioned that he thinks that you have a lot of holes in your game, which is a sort of critique that you don't necessarily hear from Fodor when he speaks about his opponent. So I thought that that was interesting.

What do you make of him at this juncture? Because he has been tagged pretty badly in his last few fights. Well, I think Fado is still good at what he brought him all those championships. The difference is that, one, we're fighting in a cage. And he hasn't fared well in a cage. And trust me, I was watching the countdown video, seeing if there's any walls or anything that he's training up against. And I still think it's going to be a weakness of his that he doesn't know how to fight off of the wall. You know, I think now his record in a cage is two and four, if, you know.

Wow. And so he, the problem is, is he is the true definition of sometimes success will test you. And he, let's face it, I mean, he was undefeated for first, you know, 30 fights. I mean, not counting the cut stoppage by TK. And so I think that it's hard for him to empty his cup and try to learn new skill set. I mean, you know, there's a lot of great things you can say about Fador, but his game evolved. He's add to his game. That's not sentences you can really use or describe Fador.

He still fights exactly the same. He tried to make an adjustment and he, and I get it. He aimed wrong. He thought that, well, because of the cage, maybe these guys are so big and strong. He struggled with Brett Rogers against the cage. And so he thought, well, maybe I didn't need to cut down to 205. And then he gets knocked out by Dan Henderson. And I've made that mistake too.

You think, well, I'm having a problem with guys against a cage. I need to get bigger. He thought, I need to fight smaller guys. And that's not the issue. It's a technique thing. His cage technique is not very good. His ability to use the cage to get up. His ability to use the cage to pin people to use for takedowns, to use for striking.

He's fought for too many years. In his background, is Samba. It's an open mat. There's no wall. And there's really not really an issue with going. backwards ensemble. We're like a lot of the wrestlers. I know a wrestling mat doesn't occur with a wall or a cage behind you, but there's stalling for taking one step backwards. So those guys, Daniel Cormier, doesn't know how to move backwards. I mean, as far as he's used to driving

forward, being aggressive, so you put a cage behind him, it just adds to his style. Whereas Fador, the cage really hurts his style of fighting. If you watch him, I mean, unless he's made drastic improvements since his last time in the cage. He does a lot of things that even amateur fighters know not to do. Wow, that is fascinating insight. See, this is why you're one of the best analysts in the game. I've not heard one person bring that up as a theory as to why he has struggled so much in these fights, the common denominator being the cage.

Interesting. Wow. It's a huge denominator. Well, even my style, I would do better in a boxing ring. Because in a boxing ring, you can't shove someone's head against the ropes, right? If I take someone down, let's say I'm in a fight with, you know, Daniel, and he takes me down, you know, great ground position, top position. In a cage, you pins your head against it. We all know, well, you've eliminated the rotation of the hips within the guard.

There's no sweeps. There's only really a stand-up and a hold-on. It's very hard to submit someone against the cage. We don't see a lot of arm bars, triangles and applaudas, because it limits the one thing that a jiu-jitsu specialist needs, which is movement from the bottom. So now as a wrestler, I jammed my opponent's head against the cage or the top guy, and I've shut down a black belt's guard who might rip my arm off out in the middle of the cage. Now against the cage wall, he doesn't. And so you have to make that adjustment.

You put my head against the boxing ring. Well, now I can still flip for arm bars, rotate side to side for your feet, ankles, shoulders. I'm still a dangerous weapon. You shove my head against the cage, it takes away from my style. And Fedor is very good off his back as far as there's a person. pivot on the arm and you get shoved against the cage, it changes things. And you have to know how to make those adjustments. I don't think I'm breaking news to you here. But when you guys squared off for the first time a couple of months ago, a lot of comments were about how you looked.

You looked bigger than normal. Could you tell us how much you weighed in those photos? And could you tell us how much you expect to weigh on Friday? Well, yeah, in those photos, I think I started my diet. So I don't know. That was January 20th. So I don't know how much I still weighed then. But January 18th, whatever the date of the fight was that week. But I weighed when I started out with my nutritionist, RN, and we're doing portion control, making all my meals. I was 304.

Okay. And right now I'm waking up between 258 and 262, just depending on, you fluctuate. Yeah. 304, is that the biggest you've been in the midst of your? career? Yeah. It was funny. It was about two weeks ago. I was in the kitchen and I had no shirt on. I was making myself some coffee. My daughter, my 14-year-old Isabella, she was looking at me and she's all, Dad, you finally look normal again. Could you please not go back to that? Like, you know,

my wife was teasing me. That was when I finally realized I got to start the diet. It was in the end of January, December. I was sitting there and she was driving the car and I was in the passenger seat and I was playing classic lands on my phone. I was balancing my phone on my stomach. Oh my God. She looked over at me and she goes, dude, that is so not sexy. You look like a Cuban Santa Claus right now. Like, let's get this together. Whether you ever fight again or

not, she goes, I'm not living with the guy at 300 pounds. So maybe that was just a product of being out for two years and, you know, not really having a lot of motivation to go out and train and just sort of living it up in the kitchen. Well, and that and also, too, my travel schedule was just

crazy. So, you know, I could have made it better. I mean, I traveled since I started dieting and I did well, but not fighting. I was gone every weekend doing seminars or commentary for the ACB, you know, traveling with the podcast with Richard, you know, trying to do stuff for fumble fighting. And so there was very few weekends I'm home. You're living on the road. I think anybody that travels for a living can tell you it's not the easiest.

If you're already not motivated to begin with to eat properly and then you, you know, you compile the fact that, well, now you live in an airport or in a hotel room. you know, it makes it even worse. Let me ask you about the current state of Belator, and I feel like this is one of the most important fight nights of their recent history, especially the Scott Coker era, because of the ratings for their last event, we're not good, and I'm putting it mildly. Do you feel pressure to score a big rating on Saturday to prove that, you know,

everything they've done for you and this tournament, you know, it's all going to work? That was just sort of an anomaly and that's not the state of Bellator right now. Well, yeah, definitely. I want to show that my name still draws. And luckily, it was about four weeks ago. I was talking to CJ, the PR person for Bellator. And he was like, hey, man, tickets are moving way better than we even expected opening up. So that made me happy knowing that.

The part that stressed me out the most was like, all right, I just got to get Fado out of the picture. And then me and Cheo will sell a card. I mean, like, there we go. Now I get to work with somebody that understands it. Like, yes, this is a business. We're going to fight each other, absolutely. And even when, you know, after Fader, when I go fight Chale, once they close the cage, both of us are trying to take each other out.

We both want to win the championship. Neither one of us want to lose. I'm looking to put him out. He's looking to, you know, to smother me against the cage and wrestle me to death. We're both looking to win. But you have to work with each other as far as, you know, to drum up interest. And that's one thing that's been kind of frustrating that I probably never would have had a bad thing ever to say about Fador before this. I always thought he was a great, you know, I had guys just kind of quiet.

But dealing with him trying to help sell the card, it's like he doesn't, you know, he kind of has the mindset like, yeah, you know, I get paid to fight, I get to show up and I fight. I'm all, that's not why you get paid. That's only a small fraction. You could be the greatest fighter in the world if five people show up to watch you fight, your career is over. with. No one's going to, you know, you basically then just go do amateur fights because this is part of being a professional. And each guy has to find his own niche. I'm not saying all of us have to be Chales or Connor McGregors, you know, but you have to make it to where people are interested in you. And on the flip side that I wish that he would understand is that somebody inspired him.

And if that person hadn't written books or hadn't done interviews, how would he have modeled his life off of those examples? And that's something that always I think of is that whether you use me for an example of what to do or an example of what not to do by me doing interviews, by me talking, me being vocal, by me having the podcast, by me doing color commentary, whatever the case might be exposing myself, me coming on the show right now, I'm talking to you, answering questions at times I might not want to answer. You know, it still is a tool for the next generation of martial artists and young men and women.

And, you know, I have an obligation just like them I took from martial arts. I've learned from Dan and Asado's interviews, watching Bruce Lee movies. So how could you be so selfish to take from the world of martial arts and not give back? Fascinating stuff, Frank. It's great to see you back. It's great to see you have a fight week. And I know this is a big one, not only for you, but for the company as well. I'm really looking forward to it.

April 28th just outside of Chicago, Frank Mirr v. Fyodor, a fight that is literally a decade plus in the making. I wish you the best, Frank. looking forward to it. Thank you for coming on. Oh, no problem, Ariel. Thank you, man. All right, there he is. Frank Mir, the former UFC heavyweight champion. So you got his side of the story. Now let's get Fyodor's side of the story. The one and only Fyodor Emilienenko is standing by. Always an honor to have him on the program. We appreciate him coming on very much. He's joining us via the phone with his translator,

longtime translator, the great Tanya, is also on the phone. Fiorar, are you there? Yes, I'm here. Hello. Hello. It's so great to have you on the show once again. Fodor, there's a lot to discuss with you, so thank you so much for coming on. And Tanya, thank you to you as well. Fyodor, let's start with this particular fight against Frank. I just said, I believe this fight is over a decade in the making.

When you guys were champions in your respective promotions, is this a fight that you thought about as well? Wow, it would be great to fight the UFC champion, Frank Mierre. Fetre, this This boy, which, in principle, all very really

are in the through some of during some of many of the because you were champions in their promotions and how much

you, what you do you think about this about this I think it will really

Frank was champion in the USC and And our Ballelich, fans, I very, I think, that's all-boyer,

already they're always already so I think it will be interesting, for me it's a

matter of a matter of so I think that will be really great fight and Sartner Frank was the

champion of the UFC and our fans have been waiting for this fight for pretty long time

and I think that will be a great fight and for me that's a remarkable events as well After your last fight, Fyodor, against Matt Matrione and considering the way it ended, there was a lot of talk that maybe, you know, this should be it for you, that you've taken too much damage.

Did you consider retiring after that fight? After the battle with Matametrione, especially, on the outset of this boy, do you think, do you would have to go, do you, to stay? No, no, I didn't, I didn't think of I'd go to go back, and the what was with

Mitri-on happened, well, it's and it sometimes. So after the fight with Metron, I didn't consider

and I didn't think about retiring, I was, you know, I was thinking, I was planning to continue fighting, things happened,

things happen. Okay, we just had Frank on the show and he, He was talking about, you know, the back end of your career, and he thinks that you have had a hard time transitioning to fighting in the cage, that your style is better in a ring. Do you believe that there is something to that? You feel like your style has been better suited for the ring, and that's why maybe towards the back end of your career you've had some issues when you have fought in a cage? Before this, we had a

video had been in Mr. Frasite, Fonkir, and he said he was there was

problems, problems that were in the end of years, it was related to you were from you

went to from the ring to get to, that your style more is like to

the ring. Do you, do you, that some your problems with this is not I don't

I don't I don't I'm nother I feel in the ring and in the I don't

think that you know the problems are connected with the ring of fighting in the

ring or in the cage I feel the same actually pretty comfortable both in the ring

and in the cage when when you preparing for this particular fight, did you spend any time in a cage, did you spar in a cage, did you grapple in a cage, did you spend any time training in a cage? When you gottowel in a cage, when you gottowice to this war, were you any of the sparring in clets, were you, were you, bittying in cladts? Yeah, I, I regularly, I use the cladourn't, I'm in the first-suitary, I'm doing, I'm

season I also I'm I'm doing my camp I did work in the cage both and I did have the sparring in the cage as well okay I'm in the next moment

I practically not working in the craters, I work in the clets. And I didn't tell you that recently during the last time I exercise, I work out in the cage, I train in the cage not in the ring. Okay that is good to hear. I was watching the countdown show that Beltor put on, which I thought was very well done. And two of your coaches said that you've been very aggressive in this training camp. One of them said they needed you to sort of calm down and not hit as hard because you were hurting his hands. And he said it's been a while since he's seen you like this. Do you agree? Has it been a while since you've been this motivated going into a fight? And if so, why?

countering, and it was very very, I very very, it's a very with two of your trainers, who said, that were just

in great form, you're just more aggressive, than ever one of the other of the other, he said,

that even he had, even he's really, were more aggressive, in their in their

trainingers, do you feel you you're more that's more, you know, you know,

you know, you know, always, I've always I've tried to be able to be able to see 100%, but aggressive, I don't know, I can't say. Of course,

the trainers want to see me see more more strong, more more, more, more, more, , more, for me again, I'm going to say, that, you know, I cannot say if I became more aggressive or less aggressive. And, well, certainly I understand my coaches.

The coaches always want to see their sportsmen more aggressive, more strong, greater. And they want to see their sportsmen that way for a very long time for more years. But I think that, you know, I feel like really strong, being in a good shape. And I always try to prepare and work out for 100%. How do you feel about this heavyweight tournament that Belator has put on? When you were approached with the idea of being a part of this, did you like the idea? How you're not going to this tournament, which is now in Belator?

How are you, how you're to come to him? How are you to be part of this tournament? Yeah, always. And, always interesting to see who will be champion and who will be the best of the teamer, who will be the strongest and will be a strong player in this tournament. For me, too, a big joy of this tournament with such guys, very important, and titulunum.

Yeah, I'm very glad. Yeah, well, it's been always that such great tournaments would attract a lot of attention. They always were very interesting, very exciting. It's always very interesting to see and to find out who is the strongest, who is the fastest, who is the best one. For me, that's a great joy in happiness to be the part of that tournament and to participate in that tournament and to compete with such great and famous sportsmen and strong and sportsmen with great titles.

So I'm very happy to be in this tournament. Throughout your career, Fyodor, your opponent has, have, for the most part, been, I think, very respectful towards you. The entire MMA community has been respectful. There's one man who has said a lot about you, and his name is Chail Sannan. If you win this fight on Saturday, you will fight Chail Sannin. Is that a motivation for you? Are you very much looking forward to the idea of fighting Chal Sondon and perhaps silencing him for everything that he has said about you? with a big with a great affectionate but there's one boy

with Chelsonan who is a little bit a little bit a little bit but in the result if you

if you'll be your next opponent it's a child is that for you're in a motivation that you

meet him in the in the point and you can't you can't you can't answer to his

words I'm I'm sure I'm sure to answer to talk about a good question of

it's first and the two about about about Chalam we'll think

after before if God will do think after

we'll think after we'll think actually that I need to answer

anything what Chal Sonan said about me and to speak about Chels Sonan

in the fight with Chelsonan will I think will be able to do after the

fight with Frank Neal, so we have to finish that fight first, and then if that's God's will, so I'll face Chelfarene. Is it accurate, Fyodor, that you have two fights left on your Belator contract?

Sorry, Ariel. What's that? Would you repeat the question, please? Oh, sorry. Does Fyodor have two fights left currently on his Belator contract, including the Frank Mier one? Are there two fights left? Fordor, for your contract with Belator, you have two boys

in Belator, including a boy with Frank Vermeer. On my contract, if you have questions, ask them Scott and Kotler. I'm not going to

go to go to ask you. So, regarding my contract with Scott with Bellator, if you have any question,

so you can ask Scott Cocher, because I don't have the legal to, you know, discuss these matters. Okay, fair enough. The last time that you were in Hoffman Estates, you fought Dan Henderson,

and, you know, obviously that fight didn't go your way. Are you looking forward to going back and perhaps writing the wrong that took place in July of 2011? Are those the kind of things that you think about? Last last time when you We've metastard in Chicago, it was a boy with Denham Henderson

in July, in July, in July, in July, in July, in July, this, these, these, like, these boys, we, were, we're always, you, and will again, you'll see another, and, maybe, result? No, I absolutely, no, I'm absolutely not, I'm not going to be here, but Chicago, I'm not really here. There's many of Russians.

people, many Serbos, and American public me very very good especially not. I'm always

welcome to talk about Chicago. Well, I'm really very happy to be back to Chicago speaking about

the previous fight. I do not actually make connections between the fight, don't connect them in between them,

but I'm very happy to be back to Chicago and there are a lot of Russian people, there are a lot of Serbian people right here,

and the American crowd, he is really great. So I love to perform in Chicago. And I have to apologize to, Fodor, I screwed up, it's not in the same arena, it's in Rosemount Illinois, the other one was Hoffman Estate, so same

state, but nearby arena, so that's my mistake, and that's a screw up on my part, so I'm sorry, I don't know if you want to relay that to him, or if he understood what I said, but it's not the same arena. Fyodor, he's sorry, he'll, he's a little bit of the state,

the same state, but arena are other. Okay. Okay, good. I was very upset that I made that mistake. I'm sorry. You mentioned Russian people, Fyodor. Could I ask you about

Khabib Nurmagamanov, the first Russian-born UFC champion. He just became champion a couple of weeks ago. Did you watch his fight? And if so, what do you make of what he's been able to do? He's now 26 and 0. You know, about

about about the about the you're going to you're about two days last

Russian Spartsmian Hagib Magamett who who's up U.S. He's

you're seeing this, how this is what this? Yeah, I'm very very glad that

Habib was champion U.S. Nek NIC NACC finally UIC

did him champion They're not very they, they, of the superiors but they know, but Habib

already has a title boy. Yes, I'm very happy that Hadid became the champion of the

UFC. He did deserve that and he was waiting for his title fights for a pretty long

time and I'm very happy for him well certainly I mean it took them a little bit long

you know, just to define the opponent but I'm very happy for Habib Yes, did you have a relationship with him?

Did you reach out to him after he won the belt? You, uh, you, you're with him, you're with him personally, after the time, but no, we're not, we didn't, we're not, because I was at this time, got to, I was, got to be, gottleds in Galandia,

uh, then, then he came here, no, we didn't, uh, yeah, I mean, we know, we know each other, we know each other, but,

I didn't have the time to talk to him personally after he got the belt, after he won the fight. As I was preparing for, as I had my camp in Holland, and then I came here, so I didn't have the opportunity yet. Okay, fair enough. I don't know if you noticed, Fyodor, when you were squaring off with Frank in January that he looked very big. He just told us he weighed over 300 pounds in January when you were squaring off with him. Did you notice that? and are you at all concerned with a potential size advantage that he may have on Saturday? Fyder, when you're seeing Frank Mier in January,

you've noticed that he was, that he was more than he was. He's now more than 300 pounds. Is it for you, for you, for you, a very important factor, that he's still more, that he's enough big? Yeah, I've seen that Frank Stahl more inusitive measures, no, no, no, I think, no problem, that is,

the size of the size of the size, but, I think, but I think that more important, it's the value of the knowledge, the knowledge, that in the way of it, and that form

more about knowledge, which know, which is a knowledge of which

you know, I have experience with the boys' more the more than the

more than me. Yeah, well, actually, when I met Frank, I saw

that he really became bigger, so he became heavier, but I don't see any problem

in that. I don't think that the size is really a big problem. For me,

the most significant thing, that's the knowledge which the fighter gets and the shape which the fighter gets after he prepares for the fight. And in my career, I did have many fights where the opponents were much bigger than me. Yeah, and of course we remember that so many famous ones. Just two last quick things.

How much do you expect to weigh on Friday, Fjorda? Pudor, how much do you think, in the fibrino, you will be wreaty, you will be wreaty, what you're going to be My? My face? I don't know, 1, 108, probably.

How much? About. Well, I cannot tell exactly, maybe approximately about 108 kilos. Okay. I have to make that,

I have to do that math. 108 kilos. It's around 238. Okay, so that's usually around where I believe he is. Thank you for that. And last thing I saw again on the countdown show, you had mentioned that you feel like there are a lot of holes in Frank Mears game. Could you tell us one or two that you are going to look to exploit early on in this fight?

And the last question, which I wanted to ask about the interview and film I saw, you said in the

style of Frank and Mir, in manner of French and there's some some sort of some of

some sort of maybe can you one or do you do you after the

after the final the end of the end of the the

I will be happy to give you all the hose but after the

fight Okay, fair enough. So we have to watch on Saturday on the Paramount Network, Frank Muir versus Fyodor-Millionenko, first round of the Belator Heavyweight Grand Prix. I know you don't do a lot of these, Fyodor. I appreciate it very much. It means a lot that you'd come on the show on the Monday before your fight.

I wish you the very best. Spasiba to you, to Tanya, to the rest of the team, and best of luck to you on Saturday night in Rosemont, Illinois. Thank you very much. Thank you. All right. All the best. Yeah? Do you want to say something?

We're all good. Yes, we're all good. Thank you so much, guys. I really appreciate it. There he goes. Firdre Emilienenko, the last emperor himself who meets Frank Mir. In a dream match of sorts, a fight, like I said, that has been discussed for well over a decade. UFC champion, pride champion. And here we go. And, you know, there's been two heavyweight fights so far in the first round of the tournament. Chale Sun and Beat rampage, Frank Mear, excuse me, Roy Nelson lost to Matt Mitreone. So Mitrione and Chale moved on, but they're in separate sides of the brackets.

Now we'll get Feodor against Frank Meir. That winner fights Chale. And then in May, we'll get King Moe versus Bader. The winner of that fight will fight. we'll fight Matt Matriam. All right. Let's move along. That was a lot of fun. I appreciate him stopping by very much.

Last weekend in Glendale, Arizona, the UFC was back in Glendale. I should say, first time in Glendale back in Arizona, last time they were in Glendale was WC53, Zoufa, that is. And one of the big performances on that card was Brad Tavares' knockout win over Christoph Jodko. And what was interesting about it was not only was it his fourth, win in a row. It had been a while since he got a TKO victory, but also then he ambushed Michael Bisping afterwards while he was having a meeting with his Fox colleagues, got it on camera, and continues to try to press on to get that fight. So let's talk to Brad Tavares. It has been a while

since we've had him on the program. He joins us now via the magic of Skype. Aloha, Brad. How are you? What's up, Ariel? What's up, my man? I like that. I like that gold chain. What do we got there? Oh, just my chains, you know. Look at you. The usual. I've had this for a while now. Gold never went out of style in Hawaii.

I don't think it ever will. It's been something that from as young as I can remember, you know, it's been a thing in Hawaii and it never went away. I know maybe in the mainland, in a mainstream, it kind of went away. I think it was a thing in what, like the late 80s, early 90s, maybe, I don't know, run DMC days. And then it went away. And I think it like recently, maybe over the last five years, made a comeback.

But like I said, in Hawaii, you know, it's something that has never went away, has always been there. And I don't think it's going anywhere. Now, are you in Hawaii right now? No, I'm actually in California. So we, yeah, we took a little road trip to California. myself, my girl, my daughter, and my mother-in-law. My girl and I went to Coachella this past weekend, and baby stayed at the hotel with our mother-in-law,

and they did their thing. And so now we're actually headed back to Vegas. I stopped off here at some shopping mall so that I could do this interview. Wow. What a mensch. I really appreciate that. Thank you. No, no problem, you know, thanks for having me. Okay, so we have a lot to talk about, I believe, correct me from wrong.

Was that your first TKO victory since 125 when you fought Phil Barone? Is that possible seven years ago? Yeah. Damn, that's a long time. Yes. Yeah, yeah. You know, it was something that I hadn't even really thought about. And then the longer it went on, which was crazy because I started off my career, I think like all first round finishes, only one,

Only one, I think, was in the second round. And then my first fight into the house, first round finish. And then I had a few fights in the house. Good fight with Seth, my finale fight. Next fight after that was a finish, which was Barone. And then I went on this crazy-ass stretch. And the crazy thing is that I feel like I became a better fighter. But yet, I wasn't getting these finishes.

But like, you know, like now when I look back, at it. I just think that, you know, like, maybe it's because I became such a better striker, you know, like, I'm just, I don't get hit too much. I try to keep the damage to a minimal. And I think before, I just used to not give a shit and put myself in these firefights and come out on top. Another part to that, I feel like for a long time, I felt like I was maybe almost fighting for my job and you know there was that added pressure on me that oh I could go in there

and I could put on this great show but if I lose I may get cut and uh you know now I don't know now I just feel like everything is flowing um not a you know Mick Maynard has come on board he and I have a really good relationship

um and I just feel like I can go out there and perform so after getting the TKO victory do you feel like a way has been lifted. Like, okay, now you have the great relationship. You're on a roll, but that thing is off your chest as well. Like, you don't have to worry about, you know, when's the next time I'm actually going to experience this? No, not really, you know, because like I said, like it feels good. Don't get me wrong. It feels good to

knock somebody out, you know, to just hit them hard and they just fold. That feels really good. One of the best feelings in the world, I would say. But, you know, in this sport at the end of the day, I just want to be victorious. And along the way, if I can, you know, put on a great fight and knock somebody's dudes' heads off, then perfect. But as far as like a weight and whatnot, you know, I don't, I try not to put any extra added stress or pressure on myself. And I just been feeling more and more comfortable in there.

And I just feel like I can go out there, you know, have fun and show my true abilities. afterwards you made headlines because of that confrontation if you will you found how did you know where Bissing was by the way who led you to that room I didn't I didn't it was just it was just by chance but I'm not one of those guys that will talk shit

on Twitter or talk shit and say stuff in front of the cameras you know like I'm me and the Bissbing fight is a fight I've wanted for for years now years and years and I don't know how to go back and look besides actually like scrolling through the timeline. But if somebody out there knows how to like Google like keywords on a Twitter timeline or whatever, go back and look about four or five years ago.

I think Bisping and I were both coming off of losses. And I called him out via Twitter the only way I knew how. And he actually, he actually responded like, you know, like, hey, yeah, I wouldn't mind doing the fight, whatever, whatever it was. But it's out there. It's on the internet. Somebody can find that because I've been sick of hearing people saying like, oh, why are you trying to pick on Mike? Like, you know, like they're kind of just writing him off like he's a chump, but he's not. And oh, he's trying to retire.

Why are you trying to like bully him this, that, whatever? And it's like, what the fuck are you guys talking about? I've been trying to fight this dude. I have nothing but respect for him. But at the end of the day, you know, like don't call me a bully. If he's scared, he's scared. I'm not going to, I'm not going to fucking. I can't force him to fight if he doesn't want to.

he doesn't want it. So do you feel like he is scared? Don't you? I mean, where he is at in life, I wouldn't want to fight me for my last fight. It's not going to go well for him. So what kind of a chance do you give yourself in actually getting this fight?

Do you think it's a long shot at best? Yeah, I haven't heard really anything from it. And again, like, people can say whatever they want to say, this is a fight that I've been trying to get. You know, it kind of started off as I didn't really care for Bissbing. It kind of started off as, in fact, like, one of my favorite knockouts all time is when Dan Henderson knocked him out right after they were opposite coaches. Like that, like, there's not, like, there's no better feeling when you just can't stand

somebody and then, you know, that happens. But after that, it just became more of a, like, I watched him, you know, like, he annoyed me so much that I watched it more. And it became more of a like, yeah, like, you know, I actually really respect the dude. And I was actually really happy for him when he won the belt. He's been at it for so long. And I felt like he deserved

all those things. And once he won the belt, I knew that it would be a far, far, far shot. Like, I didn't think, like, you know, he's getting older. And I didn't think like, we got sharks in our division. I don't think he would hold the belt very long. But now that he doesn't

have the belt and now he's coming off of another loss after losing the belt, you know, it's very plausible. But like I said, I mean, he doesn't want to fight me for his last fight. So I'm not, I'm not holding my breath. My understanding is the UFC has approached you about your next fight. Is that correct? Yeah, sort of. Okay, can you explain?

They have something, they have something. So they want to, they want to, I'm sure you saw it, the kid Israel, Arasania. I'm going to butcher his last. Arasanya, Israel, Arasanya, called me out after in his post-fight interview, whatever. And so it's a fight that, you know, the UFC actually approached. And I'm not, I'm not opposed to it, you know. But like I said, I'm trying to, I've been in this sport for 11 years now,

and majority of that time has been in the UFC. I'm a product of the UFC. You know what I mean? Danaeite is basically like my uncle. You know, in Hawaii, for respect, all your older, all the older dudes is uncle, the older ladies are anti, you know? So it's like Uncle Dana, you know, like that, like I just been in here. I've been, I think I've been in the U.S. since I was 21, 22. And right now, I'm on a row.

I got one fight left on my contract. I'm on a four-fight winning streak. I just knocked out Jocko, who was ranked, I don't know, in the top 15 somewhere. And I think that put me in the top 10. And before that, I smashed Talis latest, you know, just destroyed him. Like, he didn't stand a chance. So I think that, like, where I'm at now, I think I stand a really good chance of making a run for a title shot and making that championship money. And I just had a baby.

So I'm trying to give her a good life and provide for my family. And honestly, I don't think the kid Israel deserves a fight with me. But if that's what the UFC wants and they're going to pay me, you know, I don't care who it is standing across of me. I'll smash him. I mean, be honest with me. Were you impressed with his last fight? I wasn't.

Yeah, well, I said on this show, I think it would be too soon to book him against you. Like, if I'm you, I take that fight now, and that's no knock on him. I just think you have the cage experience. I think they should be bringing him along slower. That's a big jump. Yeah, they definitely should.

Yeah, and that's the thing for me. It's like, it's like, But I would take it if I were you because you might as well knock him off early. Hey, if they're going to, if they're going to, if they're going to pay me, if I can get paid the same to fight somebody like this dude as opposed to fight somebody like Michael Biss being a former champion or somebody who's above me in the top 10 that's going to get me a step closer to Romero or Whitaker, then I got, I'm going to go, you know, whatever. I'll do it. If I'm getting paid, I'll do it. I don't care.

I it's one of those things where it's like I feel I feel you on that like so where does it stand behind him uh right now as it stands Ali Dana and Mick are working on the deal and I'm sure I'm sure you know they're they're working on it at it Ali I have full trust in him you know I love that guy I know that you know anybody that Ali works for has nothing but good good things to say and nothing but praise for the man so you know that That's his job as my manager to get the deal done. And if it is, if it is this guy Israel, then, you know, I'm a smash this hype train. So you don't want to take that fight, though, unless you get a new deal. Is that correct? Yes. They're just working a deal. I'm sure we'll get it done.

You know, like I said, I have a good relationship with Mick and Dana. And, you know, Ali is the best in the biz. So I'm sure we'll get the deal done. and if it is Israel that you know that they want me to fight then then that's who it would be I don't care like I said I've been I've been wanting this Bissbing fight but

hey if it doesn't happen I'm not going to hold my breath on it when would it be what's the date that they threw out for the fight I'm hoping that I don't know exactly when it would be but my timetable I would want to fight international fight week in Vegas for all the obvious reasons One, Yancey, Max, you know, fighting that weekend.

Two, that's Vegas. That's my hometown now. Three, that's basically the closest we're going to get to UFC, Hawaii for the time being. So if we can get it done there, then that would be perfect. Yeah, the ninth island, as they call it. Max Holloway is fighting Brian Ortega, 226, Yancey Mederos against Mike Perry. What about Brad Tavares against Israel? as the main event of the tough finale card the night before,

you can headline that show. What do you think of that? Hey, if they want to give that to me, then let's do it. Okay. But like I said, like I said, I don't think this kid deserves

to be in there with me, but I have no problem derailing the hype train. No problem. You're not impressed. The numbers are the same. No, no, don't get me wrong. I respect them for what he's done in kickboxing. You know, he's he's an excellent kickboxer.

But this is MMA. This is MMA. I'm not, I was not impressed with his last fight. Um, not at all. I don't think he even deserved that, I don't think that fight deserved to be on the main card. On the undercard, there was so much better, uh, fights to now and people that deserve to be there.

Like, those two guys, I, and maybe Vittori is right in the top 50 and I'm not too sure. but that was Israel's second fight in the UFC and then you have guys like me and Christoph Jago in the top 15 who been fighting like you know that was my 16th UFC fight and our flight was way better than that flight do you feel like they're trying to use you as a stepping stone for him

like they're trying to push him off your name if they are I mean I obviously they're giving him these big shots. So you obviously know that they feel like they feel some type of way about them. Yeah. But I mean, if they want him, if they want them build him up to be the next best thing, a fight with me ain't the way to do it because hype train derailed. Trust me. I feel like we've seen this so many times before, you know, where you have a good prospect

who has the potential to be the next big thing. But push them too fast and they fall. And by the way, you are a man of your word. Our friend Jonathan Maldonado pointing out, he found the screenshot. April 21st, 2014, so almost exactly three years ago. No, four years ago, because it's 2018. Four years, four years. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You tweeted Michael Bisping about fighting him. And he wrote back, I want to fight ASAP, speak to the bosses. I've never turned anyone down. He replied within minutes. So you have been on this train for a while. there you go. You see, the internet always has your back. Thank you. Who found that? Who found that? Jonathan Maldonado, my man, a fellow Nix fan. He found it.

Yeah, and he added you. So if you go on your Twitter, you'll see the tweet right there. Because I know somebody else, after the fact, I had said it in a media scrum, whatever, which you were not there. And that's weird. I'm in Glendale. I wasn't there. No, I took, unfortunately, I took that one off. My crew was there. I had people there. You know, Sean, KCS, but I was not there. I'm sorry.

Damn, man. But yeah, anyway, so I told them about that. And somebody later on Twitter had screenshoted an old tweet. But it wasn't the ones. But again, like, that just goes to prove my point. You know, I've not just thrown a rock at this dude once. You know, it's been over the course of the years. I've been trying to get this fight.

It's a fight that I've wanted for a long time. But I won't hold my breath. If it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen. I appreciate you squeezing us in, Brad. Good luck with the new contract. Good luck with your next fight. Some interesting options out there for you. So thanks for being so honest and for laying it all out for us.

And again, thanks for squeezing us in as you head back home. No problem. Thank you for having me, Ariel. I appreciate it. Mahalo. And I will be, if it is international fight week, I will be there. Okay. So I'll rectify that.

I'll be at your next fight. Yes, sir. Aloha, Mahalo. All right, there he is. Brad Tavares, an interesting state of affairs for him, and could it be Israel-Aisania? I am told that that was the fight that was offered, and it would be for the tough finale card.

Let's see if it actually comes to fruition. It would make a lot of sense, especially with Maderos and Holloway competing that weekend as well. Speaking of Glendale, main event, you already know what happened. Dustin Poy, Justin Geichie, one of the best fights of the year right now, contender for fight of the year.

Didn't go Gaichie's way, but he's always very kind. enough to come on the show, always very open with his post-fight thoughts. And that rings true again. He is joining us right now via The Magic of Skype, the one and only Justin Gaichi up next on the program. There he is, Justin. How's it going, Justin? Yes, I'm in Nebraska on the turkey hunt right now.

Right now, as we speak. I literally, an hour and a half ago, I just filled my tag, got me a turkey. So, yep. Wow. How many turkeys do you get today? Just one? Is that good? I've never been on a hunt before. Just one. Yeah, yeah, turkey, they're big birds.

So they're tough. They're so smart. They've been outsmarting us all day. So I finally got one down. And how long did it take for you to get it? Oh, we hunted about 14 hours yesterday. Whoa. And got nothing. And then today about three hours in. 14 hours? You didn't get a single one? How is that possible? Is that common? Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty common. They're not. It's not easy.

It's not like, yeah, they see you from, they have such good vision. And once they see your vehicle, they're gone. And once they're pressured a little bit, they've been getting hunted out here for a couple months now. So they're nice and sketchy. They run, they run far and they run far and fast, and you can't catch my hair in these hills. And will you eat the turkey that you caught? Yes, yes, I can't wait to get home and get it in the oven.

Will you eat it tonight? Or how long does that take? No. No, it's in the freezer right now. I've got to get clean in it. We have two tags right now, so we're out here trying to get one more. Okay. So we can get back. I'll probably eat it next week. Okay. About in a week. And do you clean it or does someone clean it for you? So I clean it. Jeez, Louise. You are a Renaissance man. Very impressive. I'm a country boy. That is impressive. Well, I appreciate you squeezing us in here for a couple of seconds. A week removed from the fight.

How do you feel about the fight? What went on in Glendale? Oh, man, I got in a fifth fight. That's for sure. Yeah. It was fun, man. It was a really great experience to get to go home and fight in front of all my people. Winning, you know, winning are losing sucks, but it's the name of the game.

I always say I don't care about winning, but at the end of the day, I go out there and, I mean, I have 100 only really care about winning. So it does suck, and it sucks to lose in front of my game. friend to family, but it is what it is. Ariel, it's the name of the game. This is now, I mean, you went for so long without a loss in MMA, now it's two in a row. How are you processing that? You know, it's tough, but, you know, I did everything I possibly could for that fight. Extra cardio, I ran 50, 60 miles during that camp, swam, a ridiculous amount, and I was ready.

I did everything. My meals, my sleeping, everything was perfect. So, I don't know. Wrestling, you know, I wrested my whole life. I guess I should have and could have taken them down a couple times, especially when I had him rocked or just to feel, you know, still around or two. But for some reason, my mind just will not let me do it. Why do you think that is?

Yeah, anyway. Why do you think that is? I don't know. I don't know. I think I sold myself so hard on the fact that this is not wrestling, this is fighting. And so I don't know. I really honestly don't.

know the answer to that question um it's it gets you tired and i don't want to get tired if i'm going to get tired it's going to be from fighting and not from wrestling and that's the main reason why i never wanted to wrestle but uh yeah i i i did so much cardio this camp it would not have been a problem for me to go in there and turn any of the rest of the match but i just can't do it uh it would not be fun for me would you so so you're saying like you would not want to do like in a perfect world you still think even if you didn't have that mental block, you still think you wouldn't wrestle? Or would you like to almost deprogram yourself and go back to those wrestling routes if you could? I mean, yeah, right now, yes, definitely a good idea.

I mean, I have to get people guessing if I'm going to take them down or not. Yeah, I can't go in there and just be a single. They know what I'm coming with right now. Everyone knows that I'm coming in there. I'm going to stand up. I'm going to stop your takedowns and keep the standing. But, yeah, I'm sure it will benefit me to keep them guessing. And I need to work that into my game plan.

And, no, I don't wish that I fought like that. I'm glad I fought like I do because I love what I do. But, yeah, it'll just be fun to add that into the game plan sometime. You're one of the most beloved fighters in the history of the sport, certainly active fighters. And it's because of your style. But at some point, you feel like you need to have a come-to-Jesus moment and say, like, you know, I don't like losing. I need to evolve, I need to take less damage. Do you feel like that time has arrived?

I mean, hey, those fight numbers are just absurd. But my trained eye, I've fought for a long time, watched fighting my whole life. And I could never sit there and count the amount of punches that are or are not landing. And so the fight metrics numbers are just out of control. But yeah, I mean, I took a hard shot and knocked me out and finished me. I definitely have to keep people guessing.

on if I'm going to take him down. My main game plan, I'd say, was to go in there and break his legs. And right off the bat, you know, I found a lot of success in doing that. So I know why I didn't take him down is because it would have defeated the entire purpose of my game plan. If I took him down, I would no longer be able to kick him in the leg. And that's where my mindset was. Man, I felt so good. I felt, you know, I was winning.

I felt like I was winning that fight. two judges I saw the judge's short cards but you know I want to see the they had those sensors in our gloves this time I want to see how hard

we were getting hit and the actual numbers and the data from from that fight and to see how many shots I am taking did they actually have sensors in your gloves?

Yeah they did they put them in there this time whoa that's crazy I didn't know that is that the first time that's the first time I've had them yeah I think it just started

very recently anyways. Wow. And will you get the information? I'm excited to... I haven't got it, but I'm going to ask for it. I haven't... I haven't even thought about the fight since I got home. But yeah, probably next week,

I'm going to shoot the UFC a message and try to get that data. Data, however you say it. Yeah. Do you feel like there's a fine line between, like, being that super entertaining guy and doing... I almost feel like you'll be more disappointed if you just kind of ride out of victory, you know, with takedowns down to...

Like, you won't accept that. You'd rather. go out like that. Is that, is that accurate? I would not, it's not even a possibility. Like, I wish it was a possibility because I wouldn't mind doing it. Like at the end of day, yeah, go out and get, you know, lay on top of somebody for three rounds, get my full paycheck, get a W. Um, you know, if I would have got W last weekend, I could have possibly been fighting Khabim. So yeah, getting a W is very important right now. But, um, no, I couldn't fight like that, even if I wanted to. Okay. Um,

what is your coach? You have one of the best coaches, one of the best corners in the game. Trevor Whiteman, what does he say to you after a fight like that? You know, even he's, he believes in my timing and power more than I do. And my ability to see shots, my ability to roll with punches. And the main thing he told me in that fight is anytime he punches, you're punching with him. And so I said, so you want me to go in there and get in the firefight that I want to? He says, yeah, I said, all right. And I don't need to ask any more questions. because it's how I fight.

He knows I have to break people. Like I was methodically breaking Dustin Poirier from the first opening bell, you know, through the third round, and then he taught me early in the fourth, but I was breaking his leg down, and I took away his ability to shoot take down,

then, um, and, and lead with punches. But, you know, he still, you could always counter,

especially when I lead with kick. And so that's the game I play. But Trevor, um, Trevor loves what I do. And after the fight, he's so proud. He just falls and said how proud of me he was. He was disappointed that we lost because he was in the same mindset as me thinking

that we were winning that whole fight, the entire fight, every second of that fight. I thought I was winning. Yeah. He likes to be in front row. He's such a technical coach. We work on so much technique in our game. in our fight camp, but we don't ever sit down and talk game plans or methodical approach to this game.

When we talk, it's because he knows how I need to go in there, and I know how I need to go in there. And I fought two of the best guys in the world, my last two fights, and I lost, and they are without a doubt two of the best in the world in this division. And I was, you know, if not beating, I was fighting with the best in the world,

and that's what we do. anybody in the top six, seven, eight right now in the lightweight division can win or lose any given name. Okay, so you fought both of them? Who was tougher? Who was tougher to fight in your opinion? Eddie or Dustin? I think Eddie had more success against me. Okay.

I've heard you say a few times now. You only got five fights left. Why five? You're still a young guy? Why do you say five? I'm just telling myself that right now because, for one, this is a young man's game. there's going to be new guys coming in. Every year there's a new group of fresh guys coming in.

And I have a college education, and I never planned on being a fighter. I went to college. I wrestled, and I took some amateur fights, and then when I graduated, I wanted to start losing my degree. But I figured I would start fighting professionals. And then I won 18 in the row, and I was fighting Eddie Alvarez on him. So I don't know. I never even thought about being.

this far. I never thought about being five fights from now or 10 fights ago. I never planned this whole career that I got myself into. What do you think you'll do after those fights? I don't know. Hopefully I'm hoping

to make enough money to buy a few properties and that way I can make money that way. And then I want to do social work. I'd say working in like a juvenile detention center, being a probation officer, for at-risk use or something like that.

Something nice and stable. Yeah. Are you at all worried, given the damage you've taken? Are you worried about, you know, long-term effects? I mean, three hard fights in a row. They're all in the last 12 months. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, a cumulative thing is something to worry about.

But there's guys in the UFC right now that have been knocked unconscious seven times. five times, like, completely unconscious. I haven't gone completely unconscious yet. I have passed every single one of my impact test after my fight somehow, some way. I don't know how I've been not paid for it.

I know I've passed. I pass all my impact tests and my balance stuff. Yeah, I'm supposed to be concerned, and I want to golf and I'm a big of you, but people, that's what we do. We fight for a living. You watch the,

Edson and Kevin Leifai, like, They took punches. Or, Heavenly won, but he took that huge head to the sitting tilting, and that's not good for your brain. But it is what we do in the day.

And so you cannot, I can't go to bed every night. I'm scared. I'm scared or worried because it's what I signed up for. It's what I get paid to do. And I try to fight twice a year. So that way I can not add up, not add that up too fast.

By the way, that rolling thunder kick or whatever you want to call it, like how did you even pull that off that late in the fight? Is that just muscle memory? So once I hear the 10-second clacker, I always try to hit them last and the hardest. So they have something to think about it between the rounds. So, yeah, I just...

Incredible. I thought he was trying to, you know, if he was pulling away, which he was most of the every time, you know, I would drop down kind of low, he would kind of pull his head back. I was hoping he'd back there. But that was just, you know, one or two seconds left. If I miss or hit him, it doesn't matter because it's the round over. And I know exactly, I knew exactly two seconds left all the turn.

Last thing for you, fair to say you're going to take an extended period of time off here, maybe come back back end of 2018. Is that the current plan? Yeah, I'd say so. Okay. For now, you're just going to chill out. I'm going to go, Rush. Hunt turkey, the golf, go on some vacation.

Go to Hawaii with my parents. Okay. Well, you have earned it. Ever since I signed with C. I haven't even gone and got my, I didn't even notice I had my tags where like almost a year expired. They expired like right after I fought Michael Johnson, went on the show, went on the show, went on the stuff show, then saw Eddie Alvarez, and came off that and got in this camp. My life was crazy for the last year. I am ready to chill out a little bit. Okay, well, you deserve that. Enjoy your time off, Justin. Thank you for all the entertainment. and I really appreciate you squeezing us in here in the midst of your hunting trip.

Thank you for doing that. Yes, sir. Thanks for getting us losers on. Always. We love talking to you. Thank you, Justin. All the best. Later.

There he is. Justin Gachie stopping by one of the most honest interviews in the business. There's no one quite like Justin Gachie in terms of how honest he is as far as his performance and what he's looking to do, what he's looking to accomplish. And as you heard him say at the top of the interview, view, you know, he would like to maybe fight a little smarter, but there's just something in his brain that precludes him from doing that. Really great stuff from him.

Okay, one of the big stories this past weekend in Atlantic City, let's go back to that card, was the return of David Branch. And what a performance. He knocks out Tiago Santos in two minutes and 30 seconds. An unbelievable win for Branch, especially considering we had not seen him in action since September of last year that fight against Luke Rockhold. He certainly got back on track in a very big way on Saturday. So let's say hello to David Branch, the former.

WSOF middleweight and light heavyweight champion. Is he joining us via Skype or phone? I'm not sure. It's via phone. David, how are you? How's it going? It's going really well. Thank you very much for joining us.

Your first knockout in a while, is it fair to say that's your first clean, like no referee involvement, just boom, walk away, knockout of your long MMA career? Is that fair? I don't know if it was a boom, away. I mean, I just, like, it was just like, uh, I've done that to people before and had to follow up, you know, just to make sure that the job is done. Did it feel good? Did you enjoy it?

We're doing that. Like, I mean, I just, I just felt good to get my job done, you know, and like, you know, and that was it. I didn't like, you know, take any pleasure and, like, you know, doing that to him. I mean, as a human being, he's out there just trying to, you know, get it done like me too, you know? And that's it, you know, we just, we just, we just, we, we We set a lot of differences already, you know. It was a great sport in there, you know. I respect them a lot. But considering, you know, the time off and how your last fight went,

I would imagine getting a clean, quick victory like that had to feel like, okay, now I'm back on track. There's a weight lifted. I can move on with my career, right? Definitely. You know what I mean? It was like, you know, I put that past me, you know, and like a lot of the, like, you know, the pressure that comes with that, obviously, like you're talking about, you know, you're coming off of a loss.

You want to redeem that. And, like, you know, I'm glad that it was able to be done in that fashion against that kind of opponent. You know, he's a dangerous guy. Do you feel like now you can officially move on from the Rockhold fight? Or do you feel like you were over it long before this fight happened? Did you need to have a fight and a nice victory to move on? Or were you able to put it behind you even leading up to this fight? No, I put it behind me.

I mean, it was like, you know, we had a chance. I had my chance to do what I had to do inside the cage. and it didn't go my way, you know, and, you know, I learned a lot from that loss, you know. So, you know, it's time for me to move on, you know, if the future, you know, holds for me to, you know, cross those paths again, then that's something different, but I'm thinking forward right now.

What, you said you learned a lot from that fight, what would you say is the biggest lesson that you learned from it? I mean, it was just a lot, you know, for me as a person, you know, just, you know, a lot of things, you know, technically that I was doing wrong inside of the cage, you know, that we fixed up, you know, me and my team we looked at, you know, and, you know, just fix a lot of bad habits, you know, and just, you know, hustle a little harder in certain areas and do things a little smarter.

Do you feel like now getting a victory like this, especially so early in a fight, we'll get people off your back as far as the decisions are concerned? I mean, I guess, you know, it was just, you know, you got to go in there and do your job, you know, and it was just like it was an urgency to do it, you know, because he's a tough guy, those kicks were adding up, you know, and I didn't want it to be a lingering fight, you know, and, you know, where I can't, where I have my movement, you know, limited and restricted, so I had to, like, go and press the button, you know. How does your leg feel on this Monday?

It feels better now. I mean, I'm walking around normal, but that night it hurt, you know. Yeah. He is a strong guy. There's no doubt about it. Although, you know, like, going from a rock hole to him, like, did you, did you sense a difference in a level of opponent, or do you think he's someone who, you know, maybe doesn't have the wins and the resume that Rockhold does, but still just as tough. Oh, yeah, man, just as tough. You know, he's, like, coming out there hard, you know, just different things. You know, obviously, we don't have to worry about such a grapple heavy, you know, kind of neutralizing style.

You know, that would, like, offset my grappling a little bit, you know, like, you can, you know, kind of, you know, hold of that bay. You know, I don't have that kind of advantage with him, but he's got the strikes. He's real strong. He's explosive, you know, good footwork, you know. he's coming off for knockouts so you know you're usually like an even kill kind of guy but

I don't sense like I feel like if I was talking to you after a loss you'd sound the same way like you don't sound overly excited over what you accomplished on Saturday why is that no I mean I'm I'm happy about you know what happened like as far as me getting the job done and executing our game plan you know

that's what really made me more happy than anything you know just working with my team you know Jamal Patterson Gary St. Ledger Jerry Naldi and, you know, John Rosales, you know, we all put our heads in together along with a bunch of other people. And, you know, we just kept at a certain game plan and we worked at it, worked that. And we were able to execute it. And it was just that, you know, I find a lot of joy in that, you know. You were supposed to fight back in February against you, O. Romero. And of course, it was the whole, you know, shuffling of the deck because of the Whitaker injury. And I think a lot of people actually gained an even, you know, greater level of respect for you because you're coming off the Rockville,

and you say, give me Romero, who's, you know, one of the toughest guys, regardless of division. Why did you want to bounce back from the Rockhold fight against someone like Romero? Because he's a savage, you know, and like, you know, I wanted to test myself. I want to test myself against the best people. And at the time, you know, that's the person that I chose to fight, you know, next. And they obliged it, you know, and they made it happen, you know. So it was just like, you know, and, you know, he had the, you know, how, you know, Whitaker got hurt.

and he's in that position to where he's going to, you know, go up above and I respect it. And, you know, everything happens for a reason, I guess, you know, and I'm here right now. Were you upset when you didn't get the fight? I mean, you know, I was preparing the fight. I was a little disappointed. I wouldn't say I was upset, you know. I was just like, you know, just one of those things to where you didn't expect something like that to happen when you already fixed your mind for something, you know, and then it just changes.

So it was one of those things, you know? And then what did you think of his performance like? Did that make you want to fight him even more after you saw what he did to Luke Rockhold? I mean, look, man, I was scheduled to fight the guy already. You know, it didn't happen. You know, it didn't make me want to fight him more or less. I know what the guy's capable of. I mean, that's what he's been doing to people.

That's what he's capable of doing the people area. Yeah. I'm going there and beat the living hell out of somebody, you know what I mean? And it looks really freaking scary, right? Yes. It does. You know, okay, yeah. And, you know, you've got to understand that if that's what you have to do

and that's the kind of competition that you have to go against, then if it makes you afraid, then you shouldn't be in it because you're never going to be able to rise to the occasion against somebody like that. But if you see somebody like that, and it's a part of you, it makes you nervous because that's, that's human energy, you know?

You're going to get nervous from something like that. But if it's a part of you that wants to go against the waves like that, you know, then that's the part of you that's a warrior, and you have to respond to that, you know? That's a part of you that lets you know that you're alive, you know? I mean, I don't actually know. And if you're in this business, you know, if you're in this business, I'm just just speaking as a fighter, you know, if you're in this business,

then you understand what I'm talking about, you know? Yep, yep. And you're going to go and you're going to answer the bell, you know, and that's what we do. So I don't need any special treatment for wanting to fight tomorrow or not, you know. He went his way, I went mine, you know. Why did they keep you on the sidelines, though? Like, why didn't you fight in February against someone else?

Why did it take two months to get you back in there if you weren't the one who had to move out of the fight. It just wasn't in the cards for me to fight, I guess. I had to wait and see what was happening, you know? And when it was my turn, I answered the bell and I did what I did last Saturday. Were you compensated for having to sit out? What do you mean compensated? Well, I mean, you were preparing to fight and the fight was pulled like two weeks before, but then you didn't get a fight and you have to wait two months. I was busy, I was busy running my academy, you know? I had to take care of that stuff. I had a lot of stuff going on, you know, and it was just a time

where it allowed me to, like, do a lot of other things that I had to do already. I was real busy at the time, you know? Yeah. I was able to focus on those things and then get back to fighting again. So this worked out. You have no complaints? No. How soon do you want to get back in there?

I mean, I'd say maybe August, you know, late August, you know, early September. Do you have an opponent? in your mind if someone who tickles your fancy? I mean, I don't have anybody that tickles my fancy right now. You know, it's just I'd like to move forward. I hope that, like, you know, my performance from last Saturday was enough to, you know,

allow me to climb. And, you know, I know the, the Jaceroy and, you know, Kevin Gasselom, those guys are fighting. You know, I'd like to maybe look at the guy, you know, who's maybe, you know, not on the winning end of that, you know, because they'll still be ranked ahead of me. And it'll be a chance for me to climb. If not, you know, I'll just have to see what my management says and the UFC says, you know, and that'll be it. We'll move forward from that. That would be interesting.

Although if you fight, if it's Gaslam, then you would be fighting a fellow dominance MMA guys. So I don't know if Ali would be pushing for something like that. Yeah, I have to see what they say about that. You know, I don't know. We'll see. It's amazing. So on this Monday, how do you come down from the high? What are you doing to just relax?

Well, I got a lot of errands to run and, you know, I've got to go teach at my school. And then that's it, you know, just back to a normal. day, you know, get back to training, lift, you know, lift some weights a little bit. What? No time off for you, huh? No, I got to get back to work. All right. Well, you may not be excited about the victory. The rest of us were.

It was a great victory. I think you should enjoy it. Let loose. Go out. Have fun. I did. I did, you know. You know, and spurs.

You know, you got to do it in spurts. When you got a family and stuff like that, Ariel, you know, you got things to do. You got to move forward, you know? I feel. you know, you enjoy this first and then you keep it going. You got a lot of things to do. Congratulations, David. Great performance. Good to see you back on track

and especially with a victory like that, an emphatic victory and exclamation point. Great stuff on Saturday. Thank you, Aero. All right, we'll talk to you soon. There he is. David Branch, stopping by, big win over Tiago Santos. I do believe maybe the cleanest finish of his

of his MMA career. He's had a couple of those, but good to see him get a big victory like that, especially after the Luke Rockhold fight in September. We forget he was scheduled to fight Joel Romero in February in Orlando and that fight was obviously scrapped

after Whitaker got hurt in the chicken pox, all that kind of stuff. And then, of course, they put Romero against Rockhold so he sat on the sidelines, but it didn't seem like he was all that disappointed about that turn of events. And here he is coming up big in Atlantic City.

Okay, coming up next. is Mirab Volishvili and I'm pretty sure I'm getting that correct what a performance out of him on Saturday night one of the more talked about

fights on the card if you saw it he fought Ricky Simone on the prelims in Atlantic City and the pace I mean you rarely see a pace like that for 15 minutes

it was absolutely unbelievable and you heard Wyden talk about it at the end I even believe that we have the footage We could play the footage, right? While I set this up, in case you missed it, with like 58 or so seconds, he goes, could we start it a little sooner? Is it possible to go a little sooner there?

We kind of started mid. All right, it starts here. It goes for the takedown, gets caught, and then Simone, as you can see right over there, is in Mount with a guillotine. And look at Marab's face. Marab is the guy on the bottom. look at his face. I'm colorblind and I can tell that it's changing colors. And then you see him doing the the old bicycle trick here moving his legs, which is just amazing to watch. I mean, that doesn't even do it justice. That's, you know, the final 20 seconds. But as, as Weidman said, not even 20 seconds,

as Weidman said, it clearly looked like Simone said he was out. And he said, no, I wasn't out. A very controversial ending because it seemed as I was watching it live that he had survived. Amazingly, he was in this position for 53 seconds, and it seemed as though he actually survived. But then they go to the announcement, and Bruce Buffer reads that, no, that's not what happened. He actually lost. That it was, in fact, the latest finish in a three-round UFC fight, that he lost via submission, via technical submission. And they refer to it as a TKO, which is a little bit confusing. This is the quote that Nick Lembo of the New Jersey State Athletic Control Board gave me on Saturday night.

I reached out to him asking for clarification. And he wrote, you can't be saved by the bell, even in the final round. At the end of the fight, and yes, after the bell, he, Mirab, lost consciousness. So the loss is a TKO due to technical submission. and I asked him then, I asked him a follow-up, do you agree with the call? And he said, yes, Marab was out. It was very clear to those cage side. Now, while I was watching, it looked like he had survived, that he wasn't out.

He never tapped. And much like that example that Chris Wyman gave, Michael Bisping versus Anderson Silva in London, you get knocked out after the bell. It shouldn't count if you're able to proceed. can't proceed. Now we've got a problem on our hands. Could be a DQ. Could end in a no contest. But here it looked like he had proceeded. The fight was over and it looked like

he was moving. If you go back and look at Simone, Simone points him and says he's out and he's like, no, I wasn't out. I don't know how he withstood that. He may be the toughest man on the face of the earth like the great Jim Ross says tougher than a $2 steak. It was just, it was astounding.

And so I wanted to get his side of the story, see what exactly was going on, what he was feeling, and how he feels about the call. I do believe he is joining us right now via the magic of Skype. He has a translator with him. Mirab, Balishvili. There he is. Merab, how are you, my friend? Thank you for joining us. Good. Thank you so much, Ariel. Thank you for having me. It is a pleasure. I am great. Thank you so much for doing this. Okay, so first things first, Marab, less than two days after the fight, how do you feel about the decision to give you a loss

via technical submission. How do you feel about this call from the referee? Okay, I know, I know, I know. Just, okay, I'm looking for a good place. Okay. Sorry. So, I don't know. I just feel, I just feel they take win from me

because, like, my opinion, I think I win. I win fight. I never tap. I never was choke. And I don't know what, what's happening. I don't have anything. answer what happened. So I never stopped. I was still still in. I just waiting for my time.

When time is finished and that's it, I winning. I was winning a whole fight. I was control fight and when one minute left, I tried to take him down and finish on top. Yes, finish on top. So, and then I take him down and I hit my head at the floor. Yeah, I was, yeah, I feel, I feel something, something wrong, but I still was, I never was out. I was in. So, and this guy tried to choke me, and I know, I know it's one minute left, and I know, I have to, I have to, I have to just, yeah, I have to just wait one minute and when time's over, I win. And that's how I did. I show referee, I'm good, I'm fine.

I was moving my foot. I show everyone to, I'm good. And when referee tries to touch me and he told me to show me your hands, I show him hands, whatever, you know, my eyes, everything, I was seen. I never, never, I never been out, yes. And so I feel very bad. And I take my time. I waited for when times over.

And finally, thank God, times over. And the referee, whatever. I hear the Sirenah. So that's it. And thanks God, everything's done. And I stayed down. I waited for, I know I win. It's over.

Yeah. And this guy starts, he shows fingers for me. And he says, Oh, he's out. I said, I'm not out. I'm mean. What are you talking about? I started to, I tried to stand up.

And then soon as when I started to stand up, doctors coming. And they told me to stay down. Stay down. Of course, I trust them. I, of course, whatever the fight was over, I know I win. And I trans doctors and I stay down. And then a couple of seconds later, I tell I'm fine. I'm good. Can I stand up? No, they said, no, stay down, stay down. Of course, I take my time. I know I win. I was breathing after hard one minute. I deserve it. I think breathe. Stay down and I stay down. And then, okay, I stand up. I know I win. And I hugged my best coaches, Ray Longo, and Met Serra.

and I'm waiting for Win and I don't know what I don't have answer for this what happened even now people ask me people ask me you like so MMA friends my friends everybody I don't I don't have answers

what happened why judges judge like this it's unbelievable I don't have answer yeah and it's made worse because you survive yeah go ahead go ahead please Yes, so yeah, I don't know why. Fight was over.

If I tap before five, even like four minutes and 59 seconds, I tap, okay, I lost. Okay, I agree with this. If I lost, okay, if I sleep, if not active, I don't show referee move, I sleep or something. Yes, I understand. I lost. But I never, I never stopped. I show everyone. I was active.

over and I stayed down I'm waiting for that's it I win I deserve like one second to breathe right I was fights over and and then this guy started talking about me I know my opponent yeah like he when they look at me and then they said something oh okay I'm fine and yeah I started to stand up they they're doctors coming they they told me lay down and I trans them that's what happened so and And whatever, I mean, I think, I don't know, but thanks to EPSI, I know they, they give me Bono, they give me a fight of the night. I appreciate, and I appreciate also all my fans, all people who everyone, I feel everywhere, they, they believe me. They said, I win the fight and I appreciate this is more than win.

Like people, everyone believes me, everyone respects me, and this is more than win. That's why I'm happy. I just want to continue. I will be happy if they give me rematch. Also, Sean Shab will tell me he's going to give me rematch and it will be great for me. And I'm ready for rematch. I'm ready for next fight. I can wait.

It's amazing. You do your interviews like you fight. You're relentless. You don't take a breath. You just keep going. It's unbelievable. I love this. Merab, tell me what did you feel when you hit your head?

What did you feel? Because I feel like that's an important. part of this whole situation. Yeah, right? Stinker. Yeah, Stinger. Like, Stinger. I got like Stinger, you know?

Uh-huh. And, like, my hands, yeah, everything's good. I was, I was in, everything just, like, I feel like, oh, I cannot, like, I don't have too much energy, like, you know, but I only, I try to, I hit very hard.

But I was good. I never been out. Never be something. I just take my time. I try to breathe because I know as soon as when he started to choke me, I started to try to breathe because it was too tight when he started choke. It was too tight. And I tried to breathe.

I try to wait this over a couple seconds, like 55 seconds. left, I know it was a short time, and I have to wait time. Because I don't try, I don't try to lose energy for, like, something else. I try to breathe, and I waited for time when time's over. And thanks God, I was fine. And then times over, everything's done. I just stayed down, and I'm like, it's over. Thanks God, everything's good.

Yeah, it's amazing. And, yeah, yes. At any point, did you lose consciousness? At any point, did you feel that you were out? Sure. I never, never. I never, I was control everything. If something wrong, I'm not stupid, so I don't want to, like, sleep over there.

So if something wrong, I will tap because I don't want to, like, I think, like, when you sleep, it's like, but if I feel like I was close to, I will tap. But I know I control, even this time, it was hard to breathe. But I was, I don't know, somehow, I don't remember I was breathing, breathe or no, but I know I was in and I was fighting. I'm ready for just my time, when time's over, and I was ready for win after. And that's what happened. Was it helping you when you were moving your legs? Like you were almost like, you know, riding a bike.

Does that help you stay awake? I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I don't know this one, but, okay, I show these legs because I want to show everyone. I'm in. I show everyone. I'm in. I'm fighting.

So I'm, yeah, I'm not sleeping. I'm doing. Maybe I'm not moving my head because I can't. It was too tight. You know, it was like he. somehow it was too tight but I show everyone as soon as when I

when he started choke me show everyone that's why I was moving all my time legs even when if you can you can watch video and you can see even when time's over I still was moving legs

because I was moving I show everyone so I was in and and then I don't understand yeah when they when they had you standing there and the referee's holding your hand and everything and then they announced that you had lost, was that the first time that you had heard? Like, did you think you were going to the scorecards and that you won at least two rounds to one? Were you completely shocked when they announced that you lost the fight? Yeah, of course. I was shocked. I mean, I, I know I win. I celebrate also. I after when they, when finally, doctors let me, let me, when doctors, sorry, we do. Okay.

Okay, finally, when doctors let me stand up, I stand up, I say hello to everyone, and I jump to the cage, and I say hello to my friends, my fans, all people around, you know. Yeah. And everyone's so exciting for me. And I celebrate because I know I win. I win, I win fight. And, of course, it was a surprise for me when they give it to like TKO. Or is TKU.

Like, when they stopped fights, when fights finish and after 30 seconds, it was over. And, like, you know, I don't understand. It's time was over. If referee stopped me before five minutes, I agree. And then if they'll stop me, I will stand up quickly because I was in. I move something. I'm going to do something. but I'm waiting for the Sirena.

I'm ready for Sirena. Yeah, I'm waiting for Bell. And when I hear this finally, finally, after one minute, and then that's it over. And I deserve like two seconds, lay down. And of course, also, I don't try to. I know right away, I know I was tired and I don't want to stand up.

like No, it's unbelievable. I was shocked. I was shocked myself. I thought that you survived and you're taking a break and he pointed at you and you looked up and you're like,

no, no, no, I'm good. I couldn't believe it. It's like saying Sean O'Malley last month he couldn't walk so that means he loses via TKO. The fight is over. You can't take the fact that you're on the ground,

especially relaxing. You deserve a second to relax and catch your breath. I was blown away. I think it's the wrong call. Go ahead. Yes. Yes. I said, thank you, Ari.

Yeah, no problem. But let me ask you. Let me ask you Murak. Did the referee come up to you after? Did he explain to you why they made that decision? Nobody. Nobody explained to me. This is, it just hurts me because I don't know.

Even now, I don't have answer. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know answer. This is, this is crazy. Of course, my coach, Ray Longo and my. My coach, Metzher, they shook.

They think, of course, they know I'm winning, and they don't know what happened. I don't know. I'm looking for answer. Maybe someone knows why I lost. I did something wrong. I never thought. I never slept. Fight was over.

I was still. When fights over a couple seconds, I was active moving my legs. It just, of course, I mean, I was down. This is Hartsman because I did everything for win, and I think I deserved win. You do, yeah. I agree with you. Now, did you say that the UFC said to you, Sean Shelby said you after, that they want to do an immediate rematch? Is that what they told you?

Yes. Yes. I was with Ray and Chris Weidman. And also Alia Quinta. Legends. So, yes. Yeah, I have best teammates. This is big motivation for me.

Like you like, I have teammates, like my favorite, Chris Weidman, Alaya Quinta, Al Jama and Sterling. Also some professional fighters training with my gym every day with sparring with them, amateurs. And also, I am immigrant, but when I come here in this gym, I feel I'm home. I don't feel I'm in a different country or something. and this is it feels amazing I have coach like Ray Longo

I have coach like Metcera and all these people all these people makes me more motivation and it helps me a lot for everything

Mirab I appreciate it very much yes go ahead yes I was with Chris Wademan Ray Longo and Alia Quinta yeah yes Sean Shelby

I met we met Sean Shelby he was He was said, sorry about this happened. And he said he's going to try to make this fight again. And I really appreciate for him, for website, for this opportunity. And he said it was fight of the night.

But I don't believe this is my year because when he told me, he told me first it was fight of the night. But I don't believe this, you know, my year. and like after this i was with my teammate and someone comes oh congratulations fight of the night i said oh like because what fight of the night and he he showed me uh something website and he said he read to me it was fight of the night i was so happy and thanks whoopsie because like this is this is like this is um this is big big things for me so you so you It was fight of the night. Last thing for you, Maraub, and again, thank you so much for coming on and explaining.

Are you going to appeal this? Are you going to try to challenge this decision with the commission? Yes. My health manager, Matt Cooley. Yeah. And he told me to, he's going to, he's going to do. He's going to do. So me, like, for me, I'm a fight.

I just want to fight. And like, like, for me, I don't know. I don't want to go to court. I don't know. If my managers, yeah, I want to, of course. I want to. I don't know. But, like, it's happened before, like, Chris Weidman, they, Chris Weidman lost something,

real situation also. It's happened all the time. I don't know. The judges sometimes, I don't understand. Also, my, my first fight in UFC, I was winning. I win. I think I got robbed, too. Except I was my first debut.

I was sick. I had flu, but I never, never, I, I know, I don't stop fight. I had virus, virus. Yeah. But I know that I don't, I go acting, I don't fight down. I fight. And even I was sick, I was so tired. I was like half, I was half men.

But I still win fight. I got robbed first time. Now, second time, something real. like nobody answers me what happened. What happened? I take you, what did you? I don't know.

Crazy. So, and I hope, I hope, I hope, yeah, my manager will be protesting this one and they, they change something because,

like, like, it hurts me, like, now after five years, I'm going back to my country, first time in Georgia. So,

and then I don't want to go back, like, I was coming here for Dijrime for WIPC. I want to fight in WEPC. And now my second fight, WIPSI and second fight, I'm not person who's crying and who's talking about something bad about the judges. I think I never live for judges. I think I win these two fights.

And when I go Georgia, I don't want to say, oh, because of judges, I lost fights. So whatever. I mean, it hurts me. I'm going home. Like, I lose my fight, but it's okay. I'm ready for next fight, and I'm going to show everyone who I am, and I'm going to represent my team, my best team, and my country, and I just want to fight.

I think you made a lot of new fans on Saturday with your style, Marab. It was a pleasure to watch you fight. You did a great job, and I'm sorry it ended that way, but hopefully, you know, the wrong is rectified and maybe they'll fix this. We'll see, but I think you've handled it very well. And kudos to you on surviving that choke for 53 seconds. That was just unbelievable. I don't know if I've ever seen anything like that in all my years watching MMA.

So well done to you. And again, thank you for coming on the show. Great to meet you. Great to talk to you for the first time. Thank you so much. I appreciate, Aryan. Thank you for having me. No problem.

We'll talk to you soon. There he is. Meraab Vali Shvili. What an ending on Saturday. Saturday. I have no idea how he survived that. I can't hold my breath underwater for more than 10 seconds. He did it for 53 while a man was choking him. It was unbelievable to watch. Okay, let's move along. Light heavyweight division, very interesting right now. We do believe, as first reported by, I think it was Camura.S.C. Alir Latifi is returning against Glover to Cher. Another fight that was announced recently, Tyson Pedro against Ovin Saint-Pru in Singapore in June. We've had Mark Hunt on. We've had Tai Tui Vasa on. We have not had Tyson Pedro on. Let us fix that and go to the magic of Skype and say hello to Tyson Pedro. Tyson, are you there?

There he is. Hey, Tyson, how are you? Yeah, thank you very much. Yeah, awesome. Thank you for having me. It is a pleasure. And finally get on it. Yeah, it's a long time coming.

So thank you for being patient. Are you in Albuquerque right now? Yeah, I'm at the performance rent right now. I forgot I had this. I was just in the training session. I had the producer call me. So lucky he called me early. And so do you do most of your camps there these days?

Yeah, when I was in Perth, when I fought in Perth, I stayed home just because the time change would have been ridiculous going over to Albuquerque just to come back. But yeah, I'm doing most of my camps over here. I thought for a second maybe that they would try to put, you know, it seems like there's a lot of Australians fighting on that card in Chicago. You're fighting a couple weeks later. Were you hoping to be on the same card as your brother-in-law, Tai Taitwivasa? Yeah, not going to lie, it would have been good to be on. Yeah, it would have been good to be on that card in Chicago. I wanted to get on there, but Singapore's just as good.

It was like Singapore, Chicago. That's the timeline that worked out for me. And at the same time, me and Ty and myself have, we're on different paths. But, you know, it's the same journey of a different path. So it's good that he's going to get his work done and I'm going to get mine. Obviously, you know, things started very well for you in the UFC, and then you met Latifie, and then you had to take a step back. But it feels like now you're back in that same position.

a big name opponent, a guy who's fought for a belt before, do you feel like this is your chance to get back on that track that you were on prior to the Latifi fight? Definitely. I have a really bad connection at the moment, but I'm just going to push through and hopefully I answer your question. Yes. Yeah, Latifi was a bit of a hard loss.

At the same time, it was a really good opportunity for me. Let me look at everything I wasn't upset or sad at all. It was a humbling experience and showed that he was a bed and why he's so experienced. It showed my in-experience at the same time. I'd messed up on a little, I think, more strategy-wise than technical ability. And, yeah, I learned from it,

and I'm training very hard this camp. So it'll be, I'm excited to see how I'll go. Is it fair, like, did you overlook Latifie? Were you believing the hype too much going into that fight and, you know, all the buzz surrounding you? Not at all. Like, I don't know. I always believe in my own hype you got to, I guess.

the Tafi himself just the game plan I had in my head he came in a lot different to fight and I didn't change to how he fought in that stall and that was what I meant by an experience I thought he was going to come

attack more and stand up more and just bulldozed me for the wrestling that threw me up a little bit so yeah so he was the wise of it how much fun was Perth for you guys I know Mark ultimately didn't win but to be on the same card with Mark and Ty in Western Australia

And then you picked up a win and it was a phenomenal win. It felt like you guys were really being featured on that card. What was that like for you? Yeah, I still get shivers thinking about it. We were fighting on home cards on the AFC at one stage together and now we're fighting on the biggest stage in the world together. So it's crazy that two kids from Western Sydney are able to do that. Yeah, there's nothing like it.

And then especially having Mark, even though he got lost, we still hung out afterwards. and you know, it's Mark. He's going to do what he's going to do and he's a gangster. He just, he doesn't care. He doesn't give a shit about nothing. He just keeps coming. He's a war horse.

Now, of course, we saw Ty do the Shui afterwards. Please tell me you did not do a shooie after that fight. Not until we got to the after party. You've actually done this before. Then multiple shooys. What's funny is, that was actually a clean shooey for Ty. He was actually told by my sister, don't you dare do a dirty shooie.

He would have had people. spit in it, get a, the worst thing that. Ty doesn't give a shit either. So you've done, you, you've had a shooie where people have spat in and done horrible things? No, no, I'm saying, spit in horrible things. That's me out. I'll do a shooey. But when the spit comes in, to be fair, like, I'm guessing there's that much bacteria in there from feed and everything. The spit's not going to make a difference.

But Ty doesn't mind, right? You've seen him actually do it with the spit. Ty loves it. Ty loves it. Ty loves it. Oh my lord. That is just horrible. Now, people may, people may not know this, but you've had, this is an amazing story. You actually have MMA in your blood. Your dad was the owner of King of the Cage Australia, correct? Yes, sir. That's amazing. And do you feel like he kind of, like just being around that, he kind of pushed you in, like you had no choice but to go down this path? Actually, the complete opposite. He never wanted me to fight professionally. When I was going, I got into a selective school. My dad wanted me to go towards schooling and education. My mom was a school teacher, and they wanted me to go to school.

So when I told him that I wanted to fight, he wasn't too happy with it. He kept a little bit of a hiding. But, you know, when I'm watching all these athletes coming through, James Zahuna, Tony Bonella, and I was holding the cage door for them for all of those early fights. Yeah, that's pretty much what I knew what I wanted to do since a young age. How young were you when you attended your first fight? Do you know? No.

I was young, though. I'd be like maybe even 12, 12, 13. I was doing karate and jih Tjitsu with dad since a young age. Probably four. I think I started doing Japanese Jiu Tzu and Kamba Karate. Did he, or does he still promote fights in Australia? No, no. He's living in New Zealand now.

He stopped, sort of fell out of the love for MMA game, and then that's when I really took off. And, yeah, it wasn't until I got in, when I had my first couple pro fights, he was still a little bit iffy on it, but then when I got into the UFC, you know, he was over the moon. And I think it's mainly because when my dad

was promoting fights, there was no money in it. It was still a very underground thing. Australia hated MMA when it first came out. So there was all the cage bands. He actually threw a king of the cage in Perth before they had the cage band as well. Oh, wow. And is it true that you are actually named after

Mike Tyson? Yeah. That named me after Mike Tyson. Tyson because when I was born, I'd cry and I just had this angry look on my face. Wow, that is unbelievable. Have you ever met Mike Tyson? No, I haven't, but I'd love to. So he's a big hero, but I'd love, yeah. So you have no problems with being named after Iron Mike? I love it. That's the first thing everyone says. They just go, oh, man, Mike Tyson, you name

you a boxer? You're a boxer. I go, no, but I'm a man with my fighter. If I could even half live up to the reputation that he has as a fighter. Sure. I'm doing all right. Did you ever consider boxing as opposed to MMA because of your namesake? Yeah. Well, not because of the name, but I actually wanted to go to the Olympics for amateur boxing. So I was amateur boxing out of the lifetime hit squad when I was 16, and that's when I told Dad that I wanted to continue fighting.

So Australia, amateur boxing isn't as, there's not as many opponents and things like that's a lot smaller. I think I had like seven fights, and then I realized that how much I loved MMA and Jiu-Soo, and I wanted to get back into that. And from what I understand, you know, this may not have happened for you. You severely injured your ankle. You broke your ankle, right, before any of this started? No, I had one pro fight. I had one amateur fight, then my first pro fight, and then I snapped my ankle playing rugby.

Oh. Just for fun, or were you playing in a league? No. No, I wasn't elite, but I was just playing in a local team. And, yeah, I had two guys on my back, and one came under in Grass Cup me, and I fully dislocated my ankle and shattered my fibria fibula outside little bone

and then I had three failed surgeries so I was out for like probably 12 months 18 months completely lost my leg went skinny you know all the whole deal so I was out for a long time didn't get back into MMA for a while and then that's when I got back into integrated MMA with Dan

Higgins and Adrian Pang where Cole Noak started as well so and then the rest of history Did they tell you that it was unlikely that you would fight again? They just said I'll never have the same movement again. So it's still restricted at the front. I think it's called Dorsey flexion, so I can't lift my foot all the way out.

But it doesn't stop me. I still had a lot of injuries because of it, like back pulled and quad, calf. I can't go out fully on my calf. But, you know, push through. Wow, that is unbelievable. So you still feel the effects every single day from that? Yeah, yeah. I have to warm up my ankle longer.

But it's not bad. It's like, just like, I'll get arthritis when I'm older. There's less movement in it. So we work with what you got. And your sister is married to Tai Tui Vasa. That's unbelievable. Yeah. They've got a baby too, yeah.

Amazing. When you first met that, man, what did you think? What did you think of this big guy, Tai Tui Vasa, when you first met him? Scumback. No. We've actually, we're actually close family. We've known each other since we're kids. So my dad and his dad have known each other for a long time.

They used to know each other from where, yeah, pretty much we were born. So it's been a long time. And then just two kids out of Western Sydney, out of all the guys that my sister could have picked, she picks Thai. That's amazing. And were you like him, like he told us when he was on the show a couple weeks ago that he used to look up to Mark Hunt, and now it's kind of crazy for him to be training and, you know, being alongside him. Is that the same for you? yeah a hundred percent

Mark and then just as crazy like now I'm staying at the ranch in Albuquerque at Cowboys Ranch and the performance ranch and sometimes you just take a step back and look where martial arts has brought you and go holy crap like these are guys that I used to watch fight especially Mark in Asia

now I'm getting to fight in Singapore like this it's all like it's all surreal but at the same time you just always believed it and knew where we got to I used to send to Ty on MSN like I can't wait to her in the UFC and we're fighting together when we're little kids and now look where we are. We did it. Why do you choose Albuquerque and not somewhere closer to home?

It was always a dream. Jackson Wink was always like just as a kid. I always wanted to go train at Jackson Wink, especially when Jackson Wink was the big name. John Jones looking up to everyone going, man, that's where I want to train. So then I went to integrate an MMA who Dan Higgins was first black belt under Greg Jackson. that's where it fueled the fire even more and then I was like, I've got to go over. I know I've asked you about this in a scrum, but if someone, you know, may not have seen it, one of my favorite things about you is the hat that you wear during your walkout.

Yeah. For those that don't know the significance behind it, could you tell us? Yeah, my cousin who was killed in Afghanistan. His mom sent me his booney cap, and that's the hat that I wear out. A lot of people say that it's a fisherman's hat. but yeah that was his hat she sent him to me and my dad and yeah i walk out to every fight with it um and were you close who's the tattoos oh wow that's him yeah said and on my arm going around what was his name Brian Brian and were you close with him

Yeah, my sister's closer with him. I wasn't as close, but I'm closer with my aunt now, but my dad's really close with him. He was like my dad's other son, so I think it was more that it hurt my dad so much losing him. I felt that how much that hurt him, and that was a hard time when we go. What is it like when you put that on right before you're about to walk out to a fight? It's still pretty surreal. Like, I don't know, you just feel like that you're doing something for a better purpose, I guess, or a bigger purpose. Like, I still, like, that hat goes everywhere with me.

Do you only wear it during your walkouts, or do you wear it, you know, during your day-to-day life? A couple times, a couple times I'll wear it out. Like, depending on what I did, I've wanted to Japan when I went to a jihitsu comp. And, yeah, there's a, it could be in a couple of times I've wanted, but not just walking around the street. And UFC gave you no resistance for that, right? You asked them and they said yes? No, I had to ask them. And yeah, I asked them.

And as long as they said no brand names or so. I think he's got his parachute pin on it. They had to just clear that as well. And that was it. Wow. That's amazing. Well done on still honoring your cousin. This is a really nice gesture.

And you're also in the podcast game too, the Halfcast podcast podcast. Yeah. You enjoying this? Yeah. Ty said it's all your fault for getting into it. Yeah, yeah. It's been awesome, though. it's hard now, maybe in Albuquerque, and I think Thai just got to Thailand.

So that's, we're not going to have any. But I think I'm finishing my camp in Thailand with Cowboy. So he's obviously on Singapore as a main event as well. So I probably see him over there, get a couple more episodes. And it's hard, man. It's two Islanders figuring it out. We don't have producers or anything. We just want to go some mics and hope for the best.

No, it's impressive. You've gotten some big names as well. You got the champ on there, Robert Whitaker recently. so I like to see you guys do it. I think you have a good dynamic. Almost like your family. Yeah, exactly. Tyson, great to have you on the show.

I wish you the best. It's been really fun watching you and your last performance was phenomenal. So congrats on that. Good luck on June 23rd against Ovincent, in Singapore. Everyone tune in. Watch me fight OSP and take this.

We look forward to it. There he is. Tyson Pedro joining us, one of the up-and-coming stars in the UFC's light heavyweight division, certainly a name to remember, and he has a big fight against Ovin, St. Peru, an opportunity to perhaps get back on track after st. Fulia Latifi last year in Las Vegas. Okay, so you heard from Widman, you heard from Merab Valyvili. Now it's here from the referee who was front and center. He wasn't in the cage on Saturday, but he was right outside the cage during that Vali-Svili-Simon fight. He is one of, if not the best in the business right now. He is Mark Goddard. He joins us via the magic of Skype. Let's go back to the Skype machine and say hello to Mark.

Mark, how are you? Ariel, how are you doing? I'm doing great. It's great to have you on, as always, Mark. Okay, so you know why you're on. It's a very hot topic, if not the hottest topic in the sport right now, what transpired on Saturday. I don't necessarily have to set it up because we've been talking about it at length at different points.

So you were there. You watched it. Let me ask you, as you're watching that, scene unfold the 53 seconds. What are you seeing? What are you thinking? You're outside, right? You're the, the, the, the, the, the, the ring side referee. What are you, what are you seeing there? Yeah, I'm sat, um, I'm sat in the commission seat.

So, you know, front and center. I'm actually sat there watching it and, and I'm close to the monitor too. So I'm actually watching on the monitor as well. And, uh, in the first minute, sorry, in the last minute of the last round, to see Merab go for the, for that take down. And then obviously at that point, you know, video replays, etc. are a luxury. I wasn't convinced on his state of play at that point. I couldn't actually tell because, you know, I'm in and out of the fight.

But then when it got to the last, you know, obviously the crowd started to hide it. I'm looking a bit closer and I'm thinking, is he out? Is he out? You know, I'm watching his movements, etc. I can see him doing the bicycle, which was, it was confusing me as well because I wasn't understanding why he was doing that. But at that point, I was still, I was still in two minds, you know, I was as close as anybody, but I was not as close as the referee.

Then obviously as the fight ended when the bell went and the referee separated, I'm still looking thinking, hey, you know, what's got, is he out, is he out? because he was doing that bicycle, but the second that the referee stepped in, I didn't see him move or attempt to get up, which is not, you know, that's semantics. It's not unnatural to do that, considering the fight ending scenario that's just taking place.

But then here's that this is the point, this is the point that everybody missed. This is the point that everybody doesn't get. And I'm not new to that as a referee. Liam, I see Liam walk off and then come back and then out of camera shut, he'd actually, I saw him wave the fight off. So I'm like, oh God, he's waved the fight up. And I'm thinking at that point, I was convinced, I was actually convinced as well,

without any replays, watching it live for the first time, I was semi-convinced in my mind that Murab was out. Then when I saw Liam do that, this is what started the confusion, because then Bruce came round to the commission desk looking for the scorecards. And I heard him say scorecards, scorecards. That's when you see my involvement. That's when you'll see me stand up and say, Bruce, what are you doing? The referee called the fight off.

And at that point, Ariel, this is the most important part, that the referee, Liam Kerrigan, he hadn't spoken to anybody. He hadn't approached the commission desk. He hadn't spoken to me. He hadn't spoken to Nick Lembo. My involvement and why I stood up and said to Bruce, I went, Bruce, what are you doing? You can't go to the scores.

The referee weighed the fight off. He was out. He's lost the fight. And that's when it all started to one rabble. And that's what people saw. People that, and like I said, I'm no stranger to people incorrectly fingering me and putting referees in the wrong position.

they think I'm jumping up just to remonstrate and demonstrate that the fighter was out. No, incorrect. Categoly untrue. My first involvement, the first reason I stand up to go to Bruce is because I hear him say

scorecards, scorecards. I'm going, Bruce, Bruce, check with Liam. He waved off the fight. Could you tell us... Okay, and I appreciate that explanation. Could you tell us why he waved off the fight? Because it seemed like Meraab had survived. He had not tapped, and it seemed like he was moving around after the horn sounded. So why did he wave it off?

Because he was convinced at the time. Let me give you this, okay? Having, obviously, now, in the cold light of day and watching it back. And I spoke at length after the fight. I went back to speak to Ray Longo, first of all. You know, Ray's a great guy. I like him a lot. Very passionate guy.

Very considerate, very caring trainer. and I was talking to him outside the dressing room and I was saying to him then I was still totally convinced I said Ray he was out he was out look everyone let me put you this way that's pretty and I'll tell you this from the heart okay I'm paid to be impartial

I have no allegiance to Ricky I have no allegiance to Merad as a referee with the dammalae and do and act upon what we see when we see it so let's pretend let's play another scenario I'm not even there. Video that came out.

I'm telling you, personally for me, watching the end of that fight, and here's the point. People are talking about after the belt. Stop using the word after the bell. The pertinent point here is on the bell. What was the reaction on the bell?

And on the bell, I believe that Liam Kerrigan had the correct call and that Merad was out. And here's the point. Merod doesn't know, because that's what happens. That's what happens in Jiu-Jitsu. You know, myself, I've been around this sport forever, Ariel.

I'm not the be-all and end all. I've been in MMA for 18 years. Martial arts, much longer still. Fort, competed, wrestled, a Jiu-Jitsu Blackbell myself. Been a referee for 15 years. I'm telling you now, honestly, from the heart and from an impartial point of view, if somebody sent me that video and I wasn't even at the event, and I'm watching it, I'm still going to determine.

Every day of the week and twice on a Sunday on that bell when the referee stepped in, Merrod was out and the correct call was made. So you just be clear. And I don't have to do that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So two days later, a little less than two days later, you believe the right call was made. You have not changed your opinion on the matter. 100%.

Okay. Did you see that point where Ricky says to him, like, he was out, he was out, and then Marab gets up, He's like, no, no, no, I'm not out. Of course, he had just been through something rather traumatic, 53 seconds, holding his breath. Doesn't it seem like he survived it, though, to you? He's moving his legs. I mean, he's never limp. He is, look, let's go back again and watch that video, right?

Yeah, yeah. And here's the point. This is me, the OCD mine watching. When the last minute was initiated, when Marad went in for that take down, he actually almost spiked himself, DDTed himself. off to the top of the head, okay? Yeah. He didn't roll over.

Watch the video again. People don't believe to see what you think you saw. Let's see what actually happened. You'll see Rick Simone use an elevator. He puts one hand, sorry, top of his foot, inside the leg, sweeps him over, flat on his back. At that point, he's mounted with a mounted gillotine. You'll see Merad's hands go flat to the map.

I believe now watching the video, he's actually out at that point. That's where I believe. And what I said to the referee is if I was reffing that fight, I'm stopping that fight before it gets to the bell. And I understand, look, nothing but my complete and utter admiration and respect for Merad. You know, the fight was amazing. You know, he's, I'm not pouring any detriment onto him. I'm not saying he's telling any untruth because he's not.

The guy's the definition of a fighter. They both were. It takes two to tango to get fired. of the night. Both of them left their heart and soul in there, and my heart goes out to him wholly and completely. But by the true sense of the word, you know, the referees have to deal with what actually happened. And I believe, like I said, going back and looking at that video and stop focusing on the word after. Okay? Yep. The word we're looking for is on. It's the reaction and state of that fighter

at the moment the fighter stopped to come up. And if you go back and look at, forget the bicycling as well. I'm telling you, from my experience, he's doing that as an involuntary motion. He doesn't even know what he's doing. And that's why, you know,

the guy is convinced that, you know, that he won because he poured it all out there. He left his heart and sold it, you know, in the middle of that octagon and I have nothing but for, you know, respect for him. He wasn't aware of the position. he was in because it started. The beginning

of the end was when he had that compression hit himself in the top of the head and the Gitter team was on from there running for the last 54 seconds. Let me ask you, it was ruled as a TKO due to technical submission. That's what Nick Lembo said it was what the ruling should be. That's what it was announced as. Big John McCarthy, who you know

has taken issue with this. He even tweeted me saying, how could this be? You can't have a TKO via technical submission. Is that the, I mean, that's kind of semantics at this point, if you believe the right guy won, the right guy won. But can you explain why it's being ruled as a TKO via technical submission? Like you've said, at this point, to me, that's immaterial semantics. That's the way New Jersey do things, whether it's a particular quirk, the way they do things. Let's talk about that another day. Why, why?

But that leads, but actually, that leads to the confusion here. TKO via technical submission is a very unique ruling. All right. I agree with you. And if you watched, even before I'd, I'd only actually spoke to John McCarthy this morning.

Me and John spoke on the phone this morning when I landed back in the UK. Okay. I know that he had expressed him, I know that he'd expressed himself on Twitter in various forms. I don't know this, obviously I'm in the arena.

And lo and behold, the funny thing is, me and him, like 99% of the time we do, we come together when we agree. I do, agree with him. I think the wording, that's something for New Jersey to look at. Obviously, the wording that they use, why they decided to call it TKO, I'm not sure. But if you saw me on

the little news segment with Fox Sports after the, after the fight, I said, you know, in by comparison, the correct fashion is he was submitted, albeit technically, he just didn't know it. And that's what happens with fighters in that position. You wake up. I've been to sleep more times when you've had hot dinners. That's what happens when you wake up. You don't know. And here's another very important point. Merad, you know, God bless him. When the doctor came in and the doctor went to him, the first thing he said to the doctor was,

what happened? And that's a classic 101. And don't blame the guy because it was such a frantic finish to the fight. It was high-paced. He was in a ridiculously tight spot. And when you're in that position, you don't know what's going on. And he showed all the signs of not knowing what's going on.

Nick Lembo said to me afterwards that you can't be saved by the bell. But isn't that false? I've seen many occasions where someone is actually saved by the bell where there's a deep choke. And like Mayhem Miller, Jake Shields, you're saved by the bell. Can you? I mean, you can actually be saved by the bell, can't you? I think we may have lost them. Oh, Mark, you there.

I'm still here, but I lost you there for a second. I was told afterwards, you can't be saved by the bell. That was part of the explanation that I received as to why the ruling was what it was. but isn't that incorrect? I mean, if you're in the midst of a choke and you don't tap, isn't that in essence being saved by the bell? Doesn't that happen all the time? Yes.

Yes, yes, yes. And look, and that's not in question. Let's deal with the facts here. Okay. Clearly he didn't tap. That's not what we're discussing. He was nowhere close to tapping. Yeah.

That's not the discussion here. And I think the term say, again, it's just semantics at this point, but things get clouded, et cetera, saved by the bell. What we're focusing on here, what he actually means by that is the condition of the fighter on the bell. That's why I was being emphatic on the word.

People are saying, but what did you do after? After is completely and utterly, in this instance, immaterial. The word we focus on is on. What happens on the bell? If you are deemed as not being with it, are you unconscious on the bell,

that's why the determination is made. And like I said, as a referee, look, I am Mr. Impartial. I don't. Here's the thing, I can't stand this word robbery. I really have a, it's such a strong word and I can't stand it. And especially in an instance such as this, but it's a two-way thing in this instance. Let's play out the other way. Let's say that the referee hadn't determined that Merad had actually been out and that it went to the scorecards and he did get the win. There's the word robbery. Would that not apply equally for Ricky?

Because he was convinced that he was out. You know, it's a two-way thing here. It's a two-way thing. But going back to that term on the bell, saved by the bell, what he means is the condition of the fighter on the bell. Not what's happened after. Like I said, I don't have to say this, but I wholeheartedly agree. Don't speak to Liam.

Liam's the guy. He's the referee that... Where is Liam? You're the one putting your reputation out there. there. Where is Liam? How come Liam's not talking? I've got no idea. I want no idea. And Ariel, here's the thing. I will make,

people will talk to, people will say about I, Mark wants to do this, Mark wants to do that. You know, let me, I can't put this. I don't give a fuck what you think or what they, not you. I mean, methodology, what they think or what they say. If I'm at an event, you look, my children aside, mixed martial arts is such a

people are part of my life. I've devoted a huge part of my life to this sport. Okay. To say I'm passionate about this game is a huge understatement. And when I'm involved in any capacity at an event, whether I'm the referee or outside, all I want is the right thing and the right determination to happen. And the sequence of events was this. The fight was stopped. I'm still looking at that point because I'm unclear as to what the referee determination was. then I see him wave the fight off. At that point, at that point,

that referee has made the determination, he's out. Then when Bruce come and ask for the scorecards, that's when the whole thing started to unravel. And if it went to the scorecards at that point, after the determination of the rest, it would have been wrong, wholly wrong. In a case like this, if it becomes like an almost like a he said he said situation,

you guys say he's out, he says he's not out. There's no clear-cut determination. You know, he moved like seconds after. Why do you side with him being out as opposed to, hey, the guy survived?

I tell you why I side with him being out aerial. And I'm sorry if I've repeated this. Let's go back and look at that video. Okay. And there's a notion in MMA, you know, like I said, when I was talking to Ray Longer in the back,

you know, I love that guy, I love that guy's passion. I have a ton of respect for him. And I said to him, immediately, I said to him to his face, I said, Ray, I'm telling you, go back and watch the video, he was out. And then Chris Wyatman approached as well. Again, you know, Chris, great guy, full of respect. And I said the same thing to him.

The important point I was getting across to them was on the ruling side of it. That's where the confusion was. Yeah. Because obviously the terminology they'd use with TK.E. Et cetera. What I wanted to. because that's what I do. I can't, I will make no excuses,

and I'm never making an excuse for being the guy that wants to be involved because that's what I do. I can't, you know, I just want the right thing. And anyone who knows me from stretching back from my time began, I've been refereeing for almost 15 years, 14 and a half years now, I've always been the same. I just want the right thing, you know, to be done. And if there's a procedure there.

Go ahead. Go ahead. Sorry. I interrupted you. Please. Yeah. You know, so I was talking and I'd explain to him. I'd already gave my opinion and let's go back to the video. Like I said, let's say I'm not at that event. And the first I hear about this is when they show me that video that everybody else saw, when he finishes in the Mantic guillotine, the referee says stop and he gets up.

And you'll see he's still kicking his left leg in an involuntary fashion. He's out. He is out. And I will bet my ass to a barme door every day of the week, twice on a Sunday, and I would testify everywhere else. He's out. It's as clear as day. One last thing about this, Mark, could I ask you? You've seen fights where a guy gets like a flash knockout and the opponent is out for a second. I remember this happened with Fador and Dan Henderson. This happened many times before, but then he actually wakes up from another punch. You could go back and say that guy was out, but then he somehow survives in the midst of it all. Isn't this the same thing? You're out for a second and then you wake up some way somehow. Isn't that the same thing?

I'm really sorry. Did I lose you? Did you not hear that? I heard you say a fighter gets knocked down or blah blah blah and he comes back. I've seen knockouts. I'm sure you've seen situations where a guy gets upon further review, he was out in the middle of a fight, but somehow after extra punches. He wakes up. This happened with Fadorn and Dan Henderson. It's happened many times before. Isn't that the same thing? You can be out.

The referee may miss it, but in the end you survived. So isn't it how your state is at the end of the fight? You could be out in the midst of a fight. It's missed. You get flash knockout. You're done. But then you somehow wake up in the midst. Isn't that the exact same thing that happened here? He was out after the Stinger

after he DDTed himself. But in the end, it seemed like he was awake once the fight was over. Isn't that the same thing? But Ariel. when the fight was over. You think he was out? For the third time I'm going to take you by it. Of course.

Okay, all right, fair enough. All right, fair enough. I defer to you. I, I, yeah. Okay, look, what's your opinion? And look, like I say, I have no, look, nothing but I spoke to Morad afterwards, whether we remember us or not, I saw him back in the house. I have nothing but admiration and respect for that guy.

And I have nothing. And it takes two to tango. They got fight at the night, which hopefully softened the blow for him. You know, I understand that, you know, my empathy for him and obviously, you know, the emotion and everything involved in M&A in a fight. I understand. I get it all. I've been there on both sides, and I really do understand, but I've got to say it again. And I don't have to because I have never met Liam Kerrigan before in my life.

It was the first time I met him. Do I believe he made the correct determination at the moment that fight would start? Yes, so I do. Okay, fair enough. You know, I'll defer to you. You guys are the experts. You did ask for my opinion. My opinion is that at the end of the fight, it seems like we have a very tired man who is laying on the mat, who responds right away when Simone says, you're out.

And he goes, no, I'm not out. And it seems as though there are doctors who are telling him to lie down. It also seems like we have a man who probably doesn't understand exactly what's going on. We're looking at the finishing sequence here. To me, watching it live, I thought 100 percent, we have just seen one of the gutsiest performances in the history. of the UFC, a man has survived a 53 second choke, and he's good to go, and he just won be a decision because I'm watching it. It looks like he is still, you know, he moves his head right there. We're looking at it. Simone is pointing at him, and he goes, no, I'm not out.

That's what I saw, but again, I'll defer to you guys. You're the experts. I'm not, I'd even, I'd even weigh in on it on Twitter because I feel like there's a knee-jerk reaction at times. I'm not a license ref. I'm not a judge. You go to my Twitter timeline. I did not criticize because I feel like sometimes we are too quick to judge you guys. So I respect you coming on and talking about this. Can I ask you one last thing, Mark, before I let you go, because I've wanted to have you on the show for quite some time. I mean, you were involved in a pretty famous moment now in the sport with Connor McGregor. What could you tell us about the state of your relationship with Connor and what happened that night in Dublin?

I would rest Connor McGregor tonight in five minutes in the next hour with the exact same integrity and professional impartiality that's got me to where it's got me to today. No question. Has there been made, has there any effort been made to try to rectify whatever issue he may have with you? Has anyone tried to mediate, you know, between you and him? No, no, not at all. And I'm not the kind of guy to bear a grudge, you know.

I'm in this sport as a professional aerial. And some nights you earn your money. a little bit more involved than other nights. And, you know, that was certainly a night I felt I earned my money. And, you know, I didn't knee-jerk. I slept on that for a couple of days. And I had a, I said my piece publicly. Yeah.

It was very, very majorly well received, as you know. Yeah. And my thought process and my feelings don't change. Like I said, you know, what's done is done. and I would ref Connor tonight, tomorrow, just as Mark Godard, the ref, the same ref that he's always knew all this time. It's no skin off me 100%. You know, sometimes, like I said, as a ref, we've had this discussion.

You damned if you do, damned if you don't. You know, like I said, going back about the family thing without getting too tied in, too emotional. Sometimes, you know, as a referee, we can make a living, but it's not, we're not millionaires by any stretch of the imagination, but sometimes a little bit tough, you know. You have to develop a thick skin, and you're putting tight spots every now and again, and it's part and parcel of the sport.

Yeah, was that the toughest night of your career? I've had tougher nights. I'll tell you the story about me in Vietnam one day. That was much tougher. Okay, fair enough. But you don't hold a grudge. It's all good on your end. Never.

Never. I don't hold glugies, mate. There's too much weight. Never, ever, ever. Well done, Mark. Thank you very much for coming on and explaining your side. And in our opinion, it holds a lot more weight than our side. That's why we like to get the newsmakers.

I would say to Liam, and I think that this is something that needs to be done in the sport more often. I love the fact that you went on FS1 afterwards. I think that more often than not, there is this tendency with commissioners and referees and judges to just hide. And I do feel like, okay, you don't have to do. a million interviews, but to put out a statement, look, I am critical of Mario Yamasaki, but I'll say this about Yamasaki. He comes out and he actually puts out a statement,

he explains his actions. There are a lot of referees. I don't have to name names who just hide and we don't hear from them. And I think it takes a big man to come out and explain your side. So I appreciate you coming on and wanting to talk and at least explain your side of things

because I think people need to hear it. And I think it holds a lot more weight than some of the people that you see on Twitter weighing in who have never reft or judged, don't have a license, things like that. I appreciate the time and the platform to be able to do so. I really do.

Okay, thank you, Mark. We'll talk to you soon. All the best to you. Cheers, Ariel. See you soon, mate. All right, there he is. Mark Goddard. That's why, in my opinion,

one of, if not the very best in the business. He is just phenomenal at his job. And we could debate this one all day. We can really debate this one all day. I don't know if we'll ever know the true answer as to whether or not he was out or not. But to come on and face the music, so to speak, to me is very commendable. Okay, let me take these off right now

and say hello to our next guest. Let's bring her hand. I've been keeping her waiting long enough and I think that she is going to flip me over and beat the crap out of me because I've been keeping her waiting. Kayla Harrison, how are you, Kayla? I'm so sorry for keeping you waiting.

No worries. Nice to finally meet you. It is a pleasure. Wow, what a firm handshake you have. I appreciate it. Judo grips. Yes, thank you. Thank you for coming in

and thank you for being patient. There's all kinds of craziness going on in the world of MMMA. I don't know if you know. I've noticed, but MMA is kind of a crazy world. That is true. On its own. Did you watch that fight on Saturday?

Were you... Yeah, I was watching a little bit of it. How do you feel about that call? Do you think he was out or not? I think, I mean, I don't know. I thought he was like spasming a couple of times. Like he was out, but... Like convulsing?

Yeah, I thought he was convulsing, but I don't know. I've had some arguments with a couple people and they said he wasn't out. So I don't know. I have to rewatch it. I didn't, I don't... Live, I thought he was out. Okay. But...

Do you like watching this stuff? Like, are you still getting used to this? Are you fully in? No, I'm in. Okay. But I mean, I don't know. I never liked watching judo either, though. Like, I would never be like, oh, I have to watch the Paris Open.

Like, I just like to fight. I just like to win. That's it. I don't like to like, I'm not a fan. I just want to be the best. So, like, when you have a night off, you're not choosing, oh, let me like go back into the vault and watch old MMA fights. You'd rather do something else. I mean, I'll watch to look at technique.

Yeah. And especially because I'm so new, like there's a lot of stuff I have to learn and a lot of ground I have to cover. but I'm not watching it because I'm like, oh, man, do you remember it? Like, it's not poetry to me. You know what I mean? Yeah, no, I understand. So we've talked once before on this program, October 2016 was the one and only time you can talk to. If you say so.

And, of course, for anyone who doesn't know you, I didn't have a lot of time to set you up here. Two-time Olympic gold medalists, first American judica to win a gold medalist. By the way, I think I may have told you this. My uncle was in the Olympics, too. Did I tell you this? No, you did it. 1976 Olympics, Lebanon. Yeah.

He was in Summer Olympic Games in judo. That's awesome. That's something in common. 76. Where was that? Montreal, my hometown. Yeah, that's what I thought. Yeah, that's awesome. So, yeah, we kind of share a kinship.

But that's not why I brought that up. That's when you announced that you were about to, you know, make the transition to MMA. And I think it was just a few days later, WSO at the time, announced that you were joining the team first as an analyst, but then you would eventually make your debut. Correct. So we're approaching almost two years later, and you have still yet to fight. Well, I'm going to announce right now that. But I am going to fight. Okay.

Yes, June 21st. This is a thing. Yes, this is a thing. I didn't know that. Okay, wow. Yeah. Tell us, please. So I've been waiting for a long time to fight.

You know, first, it was more me. I just wanted to get my feet wet, get in there, see if I liked getting punched in the face. And now that I've established that I do, we've sort of been waiting for the PFL to get their stuff together. So their stuff is together. Their first card is June 7th. at Madison Square Garden. So I'm going to fight on the second card, June 21st in Chicago. Wow.

Yeah. This is a done deal. It's done. It's happening. And who's your opponent? I'm not supposed to say because a couple of girls have already pulled out. So we don't know if this girl's going to. So two girls have actually agreed and then pulled out.

Yeah. Really? Yeah. Who were they? Can you tell us down? I'm not going to talk. I'm not going to. I don't really know.

I told them I'll fight. I don't care who I fight. Do you believe they pulled out due to an injury, like a real reason? Or did they actually look you well? I don't know. I mean, it's tough because. I'm zero and zero in MMA, so it's not like I'm going to fight, you know, someone who's 10 and O.

Right, right. But it's, I think it's difficult when you have two Olympic gold medals behind your name. Like, people are kind of like, are you really, you know, an amateur? So I'm not, not that I'm amateur, but I don't have any pro experience. You don't have amateur experience either. I don't have any amateur experience either. Did you consider taking an amateur fight just to get the whole thing under? I didn't really know, like, I didn't know how it worked, you know?

So I was just like, I just, I finished with the Olympics, and I knew that I was done. I knew that I wasn't going to go for another one. And I was kind of just, I was a little bit lost in my life. Like, I didn't have a goal. I didn't have something to wake up for. And I was struggling. You were depressed, right? I was very depressed.

Very depressed. No, very depressed. It's like, you know, I don't know, like post-Olympic depression is a real thing. It's like, I think sort of like coming home, not coming home from, because that's much more traumatic. But it's like when you're a type A person and you're an Olympic athlete and you train your whole life for one moment,

even if you win, when you come, like that high is so high that when you come off of that, it's like you're low. You just don't know what to do with yourself. So I was not training, I wasn't working out. I was just like not setting an alarm. It was like laying in bed all day every day

watching like, you know, stupid TV shows. And I talked to Jimmy and I talked to Jimmy's my judo co-ed. coach and his father, Big Jim, and I talked to them about it, and they said, they really didn't want me to do MMA. They just felt like I should move on with my life. But Big Jim's also kind of really old school where he thinks, like, I'm 27 and I'm not married with kids, so I have to be a nun. But I just said, you know, I didn't know if I wanted to do it, but I didn't feel like my athletic career was over. And I was a little bit lost. And then Ali, who I'm sure you talk to all the time,

you know, Ali. I think, yes, I am familiar with them. Got me a deal with the World Series. And they said, you know, you don't have to fight if you don't want to. But if you decide this is what you want to do, we have a home for you. Okay. And then I started training, and now I'm training with one of the best teams in the country. Who are you training with?

I just moved to American Top Team. In Coconut Creek. Okay, wow. Yeah. So like your corner for this fight on June 21st, who will it be? Probably big gym Because he's like the head He's the Don

And then Mike Brown Yeah And then I'm doing a lot of striking With Coach Daya So probably Coach Daya Wow So this is set When did you move there?

Like a little over a month ago Okay And how do you like it so far? I love it Yeah Yeah I mean I went You know I sort of did like

The Goldilocks thing So like I went to New Jersey I trained With like all of Frankie I grew Like Ricardo And Mark Henry

all of those guys. And I loved it, and I love them. I think they're fantastic. But the fit was a little bit tough for me. I think there's not a lot of girls. You know, there's not a ton of bodies, my size. Then I went to Vegas and trained at Extreme and went to the UFCPI and all that stuff.

And it was great, but again, not quite right. And then I went down to American Top Team to train for a week. And it was the first time, really, since I started doing MMA that I just felt like okay, this is where I belong. Like, this is what I'm meant to be doing. Like, I felt like I was making progress every day, you know, and the practices were hard. There's so many people on the mat. The coaching staff is so professional.

And I'm there with, you know, two of the best girls in the world train there every single day. And I think for me, like having someone like Amanda who is, you know, and Yuana, who are both such superstars, like, when I was younger, I had Rhonda, you know, and I was always watching Ronda. done. You know, the Pagers always gave Ronda all the attention. And I was like, I want that. I want to be the superstar. I want to be the golden girl. So having, like, actual people in front of me who I can look at every day and say, that's where I want to be is a really positive thing for me. And you will be competing at 145? Yep. When you competed in the Olympics, it was around like 171, right? So how different? I'm like 160 right now. Right now you are. Okay. So you're much smaller than you were in the Olympic Games. I can tell you, like, even by the pictures. But will that be tough? Like, when's a lot? last time you weighed 145? Yeah, it was probably, you know, in high school. Okay. Are you worried about that?

I mean, I am, but everyone around me is like, oh, you're only 160. That's perfect. Easy, easy, peasy, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, well, we'll see. You have a nutritionist that you're working with. Actually, I work a lot with Clint Wattenberg at the UFC Institute. When I went to Vegas to train, Ali, got me in with them and they did like a bunch of tests. Even though you're not a UFC fighter. Look at you. I don't know. I mean, two gold medals helps, I think. It does.

So he's been helping me out a lot. And I did, I've talked to a bunch of different. A lot of people want to help me in this transition. So I've had a lot of help, which is good. My understanding is, so PFL, their big thing is that they have these tournaments and the season and all the stuff. But you're not involved in a tournament. This is like the Kayla Harrison show. Is that, you're the only one, right?

That's kind of how I like it. But that's true, right? Is that not true? No. There's no 145 pound. women's tournament? No, there's not this year, but the goal is for there to be next year. There is. Okay. Yeah, we just have to... I mean, they are, you know, they're undertaking a lot. Sure. They're completely changing, a complete rebranding, you know, all new ownership.

They're creating this tournament series. They already have, I think, 10 weight classes that they're trying to get going. So, a million dollars for each weight class. They have to make all of those rosters. And I think that trying to add a women's division when they had never really had a women's division before on top of doing all that was like a little too much for them. So next year. Okay. A million bucks. Why then fight at 145? If it's kind of like a showcase for you, your debut, why not make the transition easier, maybe 155? Well, we had talked about me fighting 155 for my first fight and I think maybe it might still be something that happens, but there is no 155 division for women in MMA. Did you know that? I believe, I mean, there have been

155 pounds. I mean, isn't that interesting? There have been like one-offs. Yeah, but I'm not, I don't want to be, I want to be the best. Yeah, but this is the Kayla Harrison show, like I said. So do the, the, the debut, 155, get it away. I mean, well, I'll talk to my people and I'll have my, that's a great idea. Why cut to 145? Why? What's the point? Because women, first of all, like, there's barely, barely any 150, any women at 145. Yeah. If you could find someone to take the fight, just do it at 155. I would. I would. I'll. I'll. I'll. I'll. I don't care. I'll fight it 155.

I'll fight it 165. Are you kidding me? I'd love to be able to go back to my 6,000 calories a day diet. I miss it. What do you at now? What do I, how many calories? I don't like count calories or anything. It's just more about like what I eat and when I eat it.

It's very, a lot less protein because my body builds muscle really easily. So more fat, less carbs, like a high fat percentage diet. Now what about, so I'm assuming you've sparred before, right? Yes. Do you like to get hit in the face? I mean, I'm not like... Yay. You're not that. Are you? Is anybody? I don't, I've never had the pleasure of sparring someone.

Why? I mean, you talk about it all the time. I know, isn't that amazing? I feel like that should happen. You know, judo in Japanese means the gentle way. So maybe you should just start with judo. Okay, fair enough. Like go get thrown around a little bit. And then go from there.

And you see his nose? I know. Everyone gives me a hard time about my nose. They say that it's definitely going to get broken. Has it? been broken yet? In judo, but not in... Not in MMA.

Okay, that's good. But is it susceptible to being broken? I think so, yeah. I got my first bloody nose like two weeks ago. So that was fun. From a punch? Yeah. Okay.

Sparring. Yeah. And so what is it like getting punched? I mean, I'm not used to it yet, so I still have sort of bad, like, not the greatest reactions. But I think once I start to, like, the number one thing all of my coaches tell me is like, Kayla, just relax. Like, once you relax.

Feel that you're tense? I feel that I get tired fast. Like, conditioning's never been an issue for me. And for whatever reason, like, I always feel like I'm out of shape when I spar. Like, I'm always like, oh, my God, like, I'm so tired. And that's just because I'm not relaxed. Like, my body's very tense. So I have to learn to.

You're not typically a tense competitor. Like, when you competed in Judah, were you tense? No, but. It's the unknown, right? Yeah, it's the unknown. It's the whole, like, it would be like a white belt coming out and trying to do grand glory or just bar with me you know like of course they're going to be stiff and rigid and like exhausted after 30 seconds so i still have a little bit of that you know newness to me if there was such

a thing as like professional judo right it was a ufc but for judo do you feel like you just would transition like are you almost doing this because this is what you have like it's almost like there's no other way to get that out you know what i mean no because this is not something you grew up wanting to do no definitely not it's never been like my goal when I was a child, like, I was never like, oh, I want to be. Yeah. But I think now that I've started to get into it and now that I've invested so much time. You're happy with this?

Yeah. No, I can't imagine, even if, like, even if I was a millionaire or independently wealthy and, like, I had no worries and I didn't have to work, I would still be doing what I'm doing. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes I worried that you were almost being forced to do this. Yeah. I think at the beginning, I was kind of like skittish about it.

Like I was like, uh, and it's tough too because everyone always is like, well, look at Rhonda. You know, like you always have the comparisons. So for me, I didn't know, it's just, it's so different from the judo world. But I'm kind of loving it. Like, I'm kind of starting to become my own person in MMA, if that makes sense. Like in judo, I always had certain expectations. Like, everyone sort of is like, this is Kayla, this is the golden girl. this is the poster child.

And so I always felt like that's who I had to be. But in MMA, like, no one really knows me. Like, nobody cares about judo. Nobody cares, like, it's such a small sport in the U.S. So now I'm sort of just like, I just get to do what I want and, like, be Kayla. And I'm enjoying it. Have you watched how other judicas have? I mean, again, you mentioned Ronda, but like there have been others,

maybe not obviously as illustrious as you, but who have used their background in Do you study those people a lot? Yeah, a little bit. I think it's such a, it's interesting. I always thought that judo was such a good base for an MMA fighter. Like I was like, are you kidding me? It's the best one by far because not only can you take people down, but you know how to submit them. Whereas like if you're a wrestler, oh, you can take them down.

And if you're a boxer, you can't take them down. You can punch the crap out of them. But it's so different from MMA that a lot of, you know, of the transitions and a lot of the techniques that I used to be really good at, I don't even use. Like stuff that I've never done in my judo career is what I use now in sparring, which is weird. Like foot sweeps. Yeah. I was never known for my foot sweeps,

but they work like magic. Wow. In M.A. So. But it is something that you know how to do. It just wasn't maybe part of your life. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And I do watch, I mean, you know, my, I used to train with Rickon. So he, used to fight for Bellator. He gave me a lot of tips and stuff getting started. I watched Ronda. Cairo Parisian, I watched some of his stuff. Well, Steve

Mocko is a coach down at ATT, and he did judo when he was younger, and obviously he's an Olympic wrestler. I actually used to fight his sister when I was growing up. But he's got a lot of really good tidbits and stuff like that for me. And a lot of the

jiu-jitsu, like especially Brazilian jiu-jitsu practitioners, a lot of them get started with judo. So, like, there's a lot of crossover and been getting a lot of help. Did you ever lose patients with PFL because they were supposed to relaunch in January? You were like, let me... I mean, I just, like, I thought my first fight was going to be in February. Okay. So I was frustrated in the sense that, like, I mean, this is the longest I've ever gone without competing, you know, since I was six years old. I mean, it's been since August of 2016 since I've

felt that pressure. Even when I had knee surgery, I was only out for six months. So I'm like... Jonesing. Yeah, I'm antsy. Like, I want to... I just want to fight. Rhonda has talked a lot, I mean, most famously, but she has weird feelings towards

the U.S. Olympic team. Resentment, perhaps. Yeah. And you've talked about the post-Olympic depression. I don't know if that's necessarily the Olympic team's fault. I think that that's something that all athletes experience. But do you see where she's coming from? Do you share any of those feelings as well?

Yeah, well, I think especially the deeper you get into looking at the Olympic movement, sort of the more pissed off you're going to get, like, especially as an athlete. Like when I was growing up, I was always just like, oh, my God, like it's the biggest stage in the world, and it's so pure, and it's all about sport. And, like, it's not, you know, it's about making money. It's when, you know. While you don't make money. Right.

Well, the athletes, while there are athletes in, like, Africa who can't get, like, clean water. Sure. You know, like, it's a joke to me. Or, you know, like, my health insurance got cut because I'm no longer competing for Team USA. So, like, now for the first time since I was 16 years old, I have zero health insurance, you know? And it's just little things like that where you start to really get, like, like, you don't

care about the athletes at all, kind of, which tickles me a little bit. But more than anything, like, the straw that broke the camels back from me with the USOC is all the stuff that's happening with the gymnasts and the, you know, just the cover-up and the saving my own skin and the refusal to take responsibility for this huge tragedy that has occurred and that they allowed for years, like, for years. Like that to me is like, that's the final straw. I was going to ask you about that because I would imagine it hit close to home because you experienced something, not with the USOC.

but early in your judo career, your coach assaulted you as well, right? Yeah. Multiple times. Right. So I was sexually abused by my first judo coach from the time I was, I moved, you know, I moved to his club when I was eight years old, and then I finally told my mom when I was 16. That whole period? Like 10.

Wow. Yeah. I'm sorry to hear that. No, thank you. I appreciate that. It's actually, I'm glad that you brought it up because I actually just finished. My book just came out, like, two days ago. It's called Fighting Back, and it's not like a memoir or anything like that.

It's an educational book, but it's written by me and two co-authors. And it's sort of, it's like a guideline almost for what sexual abuse is. So it goes, I actually, when I was a kid, do you know those books? They're like Civil War Soldiers or, like, Depression Era, like their diaries. Like, you had to read them in school sometimes. I don't know, like, for, like, projects. Like, it's basically a diary of, like, a Civil War Soldier or a diary of, like, a Depression-era, you know, survivor. Or, like, they're always-

In Canada, so they didn't expose us to these things. Oh, okay, well, maybe some people who are listening, no one I'm talking about. Anyways, they're, they're, like, these journals, but they're books. Okay. And so when I was a kid, I used to keep journals because I told myself, someday I'm going to be famous, and someone's going to want to read my journal. Wow. So I have all these journals from the, during the abuse.

So we used those. as sort of like a guideline, like this is what grooming is, and this is what being in the silence looks like, and this is what it looks like after you break the silence, and this is the court process. This is how you can get help. This is how you can talk to your child. This is how you can look to prevent it, you know?

So all of these things, you know, we go into detail in the book. Wow. And the proceeds from everything that I make goes to my foundation, the fearless foundation, which the goal is, you know, to educate. our society on what sexual abuse is and also to help victims turn into not just victims, but survivors and thrivers. So, yeah, so that's available on Amazon. I'm glad you brought it up, but I just, it just happens everywhere.

You know, that's the thing that really pisses me off about is, like, we all sort of think, like, oh, you know, I'm not a Boy Scout, so, like, my kid's not a Boy Scout, so it's not going to happen here, or, oh, you know, I'm not Catholic, so, like, it's not going to happen to my family or I'm not poor so you know no one's ever going to try and take advantage of my child but one in four girls and one and six boys are sexually assaulted by the time they're 18 so that statistic right there tells and those are just the kids that say something yeah every time i give a speech every time i go talk about this every time i talk about my foundation someone guaranteed will come up to me and say something similar happened to me when i was a kid and i never said anything

or i'm really glad you're sharing your story because hopefully people will have strength to share their as well. So I know that the numbers are bigger than that. And I think that a big problem is that we don't talk about it. So that's why I wrote the book. Why did I wait? When I was a kid. You waited six years or so to tell your parents? Yeah. Well, I think for me, at first, it was a lot about, um, when it happens that young, sometimes your brain is not, like as a child, your brain is not fully developed. So you don't really, like, I knew something was wrong, but I thought it was love. You know? And then by the time I got to be older, I was like, well, it is wrong, but I was sort of doing like a disassociation thing where I was living two lives. So, like, chemically, my brain was altered where I was like, this is my life.

And when I'm 18, I'm going to marry my coach and this is normal. And like, you sort of have to like, your brain changes in order to survive what you're going through. So you just think it's normal. Like it becomes your state of normal, even though I was suicidal, even though. though I was depressed, even though I hated my life and that I was living a lie, I was just like finding a way to deal with it. And also there's all these

factors where it's like, you know, many times the predator will say, well, you can't, you won't make it to the Olympics without me, or if you tell someone, they won't believe you, or things. Because you threatened to tell. I never threatened to tell. You never did. I personally didn't.

Because I didn't, I didn't, I didn't think I could. Like, I just never thought, it had never occurred to me until it got to that point where I was really going to, I knew I was either going to kill myself or I was going to say something, you know, that's when I finally told my mom what had been going on. What was the breaking point? What led to that? What was the catalyst? Well, for me, I had just been like, I mean, just, I was just, I was a mess, you know, like, I was, I stopped being Kayla. Like, I wore sweatpants every day. And I could, he, he controlled,

He controlled everything. He controlled who I talked to. I dropped out of school so that I could train full time. And I was taking online classes. I was like, I was cutting myself. I was like, you know, I was really in a bad place. And I was at lunch one day with our friends. And my coach wasn't there. And someone said to me, oh, Daniel has a girlfriend, basically. My coach had a girlfriend. And I was like, wait a second, what? And so I was like, oh, he has a girlfriend? Perfect. I'm, I'm, I'm. out of this. And so I never, I never said anything. Like, I never said, um, like, I never told my mom. I just said, I don't want to, I don't want to go train there anymore. I want to be done. And everyone was like, what do you mean? You and Daniel are inseparable. Like, of course you're going to train there. And I said, no, I'm not, like, I'm going to find somewhere else to train. This is all, like, it all happened within the span of a month. And then my mom finally was like, well, why don't you want to train there? And I just said, oh, you know, he was inappropriate to me. and she was like, okay.

And then my friend at the time, actually, who I was training with, my best friend, we went down to a tournament. I had not been training with Daniel for maybe a month. And I was like, you know, I was very emotionally like up and down, up and down, up and down. I can do this. I can live without him. No, I can't, no, I can't, no, I can't, no, I can't. And finally, on the way home from the trip, he just kept asking me, what happened with Daniel? What happened?

And I said, oh, he made a move on me, you know, and then he said, no, what happened? What happened? Finally, I screamed it. We were in the car, driving home from Florida, and I just screamed. He's been since I was 12. Wow. Or 10 or whatever. I don't remember exactly what I said.

And so he pulled over the car and made me call my mom, and I left her voicemail. And then she went to his house, actually, with a baseball bat. Oh, my. And, you know, was really upset and beat up his truck and stuff. And then she went to the police right away, of course. And Daniel called me that night, and I was like, I'm so sorry. I'll take it all back. I don't know what I was thinking.

And he was just like, you know, he was like, you screwed up. One of us isn't going to make it out of this alive. And then the FBI got involved, and he served 10 years in federal prison. He pled guilty. And he just got out actually right before the 2016 Olympics. And I decided I had to write a book about all of it so that hopefully people don't have to go through this. What was the age difference?

He's 17 years older than me, I think. And has he ever reached out to you since getting out? No, I think there's still like a restraining order and everything automatically in place. Cross pass with him. You've never... No. Well, he was in jail until, or he was in prison until right before the Olympics. But I haven't heard anything.

Okay. I mean, I know, like, after the London Olympics, like, there were some, like, stirrings and stuff. Like, because I started speaking publicly about my story right around the London Olympics. So I don't know if his friends of his or something, like, reached out and said, like, she better watch what she says. That's it. Yeah. And, like, when you tell the story, when you, you know, recounted it in an, and. I know you've mentioned it on different platforms.

Like, what is going? Are you that, are you, like, are you okay? In the sense? You ask me now after we already went there? No, no. I mean, I have so much respect for you for being able to speak about this. And I know it means a lot to a lot of people that you speak about it. And I know you said it, you know, I saw what you wrote for CNN.

And it's very important, right? You know that. But do you feel like you moved on? In other words, you have, I'm sure, a relationship. with other people, do you still feel the effects of it, or do you feel like you've done as good a job as possible of moving on from that? Well, I think with sexual abuse, the one thing that people, even if it's never affected you,

the one thing you should always know when you're talking to someone who is a survivor or a family member has been, I think for me, like one thing, the best way I know how to describe it is, like, I don't, like, look, like, I don't have, like, a missing arm, and I don't have any like physical scars on my body, but there are definitely still scars inside of me. You know, there are definitely still like things.

Like, I'm not perfect. And I have like, you know, I still talk to a therapist once every couple weeks, not because I necessarily need to or I have things that I'm still trying to overcome, but just because I think mental health is really important. And I think especially having to overcome something like sexual abuse, mental health is even more important. But I mean, I don't. I don't think, it's always hard, like, when you talk about something like that, because, like, I was terrified when the book came out, if I'm being honest, because it's, like, my deepest, darkest secrets. It's my journal entries. And that's from a time where, you know, I said, like, God, please make, like, please, like, end my life, you know? Like, those are things that, like, I don't, it's hard to share for sure. And so every time you give a speech or you talk about it, you feel like you're giving a piece of yourself up a little bit.

it. But then I think about, you know, when I had to write the book and I'm rereading those journal entries of me as a 13-year-old girl begging God to like end her life. And I think about maybe there's a little girl right now who's doing that and maybe she'll pick up this book and maybe she'll know that she's not alone and maybe she'll know that she can get help. And that makes it all worth it. I can't imagine what you were thinking as this whole USA Gymnastic story was, I mean, that must have been Yeah, I mean, I wish that I could say I was surprised, but, you know, I think we just don't really, like, for whatever reason, I don't, it's, like, everyone was surprised with the Jerry Sandusky scandal, and now everyone's surprised with this scandal, and I'm not, like, I'm not surprised because we're always silent about it, and that's how it continues, is because we remain silent, which is why I'm almost even more proud of, of the gymnasts because they are like, they're just these little army of like survivors,

you know, and they're like standing up and they're speaking out. And it's awful that there are so many of them, but it's almost empowering to them because they're not alone and they have each other and they can lean on each other and support each other. And I feel like hopefully, you know, this is going to be the moment we look back and say, okay, things started to change in sports, in our society, and the way we deal with child sexual abuse, in protocol, you know, in legislature, like, and everything, in education, I hope. What an inspiration you are, though, to overcome that and win two gold medals and to make this be the way you did. I mean, that's amazing. Thanks. Yeah. Well, you know, I have, I think I've been

really lucky. Obviously, that, all of that sucks, but I landed on the Pedro's doorstep, and they are Did it take a while to trust them? I can't imagine it was seamless. Honestly, it really didn't. Really? Wow. I mean, it's... It must be really trustworthy people.

I don't know if it's a blessing or a curse, but my best attribute as an athlete is I'm coachable. Okay. You know, like, I'm very trusting. Even though I've went through all that, I'm very trusting. Like, even all my coaches now, like, Mike Brown said jump, I'd say how high. You know, like, I'm very trusting. Mike Brown the best. I mean, this guy...

No, I really love him. I really love him. I really love him. The more I get to know him, the more I'm like, the more I'm like, no, he's a man. An amazing human being that you found as your coach. So well done on that part. Yeah. And that's how I feel about the Pedro's.

You know, it was like they couldn't be, I mean, they're amazing coaches. Like in the sport of judo, they're, I don't think there's any better coaches in the world. But as people also, you know, they're just, and they're good, too, because they're like, sort of like, good cop, bad cop. Like, Jimmy is, like, very motivating and inspiring, and he's the two-time Olympic bronze medalist himself and a world champion. a little bit younger, so he's sort of like, he inspires the troops, and he like gets everybody amped up and ready to go. And then Big Jim is like, he's just this like bad cop. Like, I call him a asshole, because he's just like a Massachusetts, just, he's just an asshole sometimes, you know,

but he's like, he cares. That's his dad, right? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And Big Jim is like, I mean, at this point in my life, he's like, like a father figure to me. You know, like, he's my best friend. Like, he was like a little bit upset that I moved down to Florida, but he comes down and like he's going to be down there for 10 days when I get back from this trip and he's going to like he's like I want to make sure they've got you doing everything right and you know I don't want them I don't want them overworking you because he's just like he's the man so I I ended up on the perfect doorstep to make my dreams come true are you happy that you're debuting in MMA as as Ronda's gone there's no shadow there um I don't really care you don't care

no I mean you're not the best of friends no it's not that at all I mean we're fine I think There's no one you have to really compare yourself to. I mean, of course, initially I feel like the comparisons will be there. Right. But it's not like you have to run neck and neck. Two gold medals is two gold medals, though, isn't it? That's true. Well, well said.

Do you watch her now in WWE? I didn't get a chance to watch, but I heard it she did really good. Are you surprised that she's doing this? I don't, I mean, yeah, I think, I don't know. I don't. Are you surprised she left? I'm happy that she's happy. You know, I want her to be happy.

She deserves that. I think everybody does. So if that's what she wants to do, she should do it. I guess the question was, were you surprised that she left, you know, as quickly as she did? Maybe. I don't know. It's hard because, I mean, one of the big, you know, sayings in judo is fall down seven, stand-up, fall down seven times stand-up eight. So I always sort of just assume that, like, no matter what, you're going to keep, you're going to get back up, you're going to keep fighting.

Not saying, not talking shit, not saying that that's not what she's doing. but I just, like, that's sort of instilled in you as a judo player from a young age. So I don't know. I think I was a little surprised, yeah. Is there anything Olympic athletes can do to avoid the post-Olympic depression, or is that just inevitable? Oh, man. I don't know. Because, you know, it's amazing?

When we spoke in October of 2016, that was at that point, I guess, two and a half months removed. Did I say I was depressed to you back then? You did not. Oh, okay. Yeah, I was faking. very well. Or did it not hit you that quickly? No, no, I was super depressed.

You were super depressed. Yeah, I was depressed like in the Olympic Village, like after I fought. Really? Like the moment. Like I, like, I won my medal. Well, first off, I won. I got off the mat and like you go back through like the presser and like they're like, are you going to do MMA?

And I'm like, I don't know. Like, leave me alone. And then- You were actually kind of critical of MMA. You said you didn't like trash talking. I talked mad, I talked mad shit about it. It was cool. Yeah, I appreciate it.

I mean, I still feel. that way. I still hate that that's sort of how you have to be. You don't have to be. No, not everyone is, but people are sort of drawn to that. People love it. It's still much more of an entertainment than... Sure. But I've also learned, and I can say

I was wrong in the sense that it is the most pure form of like testing yourself. I feel like that there is in sport period. Like judo is great, and I loved it and it, you know, obviously changed my life and made me who I am. But at the end of the day, it's still like there's rules,

there's regulations there's like a lot of and like when you step in a cage and they lock that door behind you like this is really you're going to find out what you're made of yeah you know which i love like i didn't realize that until i started doing it but like i love to test myself i love a challenge i love to like find out if i have what it takes so for me that part i love i love the entertaining aspect. I don't love the like, like, even like, like they were talking, I was talking to someone today, like, oh, my stylist and she was like, oh, we have to figure out like where you're going to wear for fight week. I was like, no, we don't. Like, I'm going to fight. Like, I'm going to show up in sweatpants. Yeah. And I'm going to fight. Like, that's not really, I don't like, I don't

know. That part of it, I'm not so. Are you worried that you're going to be forced to talk smack or that people won't, you know, jump on the, the Kayla Harrison MMA bandwagon if you, don't do that sort of thing. Are these things that you think about now or not really? I just want to train and be the best I can and let my talking happen, you know, be so good they can't ignore you. Yeah. That's it. That's all I want. Are you worried that there's not enough competition, like Chris Cyborg, right? Yeah. That has been something that's plagued her. She can't find people who are as good as her. She has to fight either, you know, smaller 135ers. She has to kill herself to get down to 140. She can't make 135. Are you afraid that there are just not that many 145ers who will bring out the best in you? I haven't really thought about it. You know, I'm still so new and I'm still so green, but, you know, I want to be the best undisputed, you know, I want everyone to say, oh, who's the best

MMA fighter in the world? Oh, that's Kayla Harrison. Are you hoping to expedite things so that you can beat the one to be the one to beat cyborg? Like, do you ever think of that? I mean, I've just moved my whole life and, you know, set up shop at one of the best training facilities in the world. So I'm definitely trying to.

What a story this would be if Cyborg versus Rhonda never happened. And here comes, Kayla, the Olympic gold medalist, twice, the only American to win the Olympic gold in judo. You're the one who dethroned Cyborg. After all that talk of Cyborg, don't tell me you haven't thought of that. I want to be the best there ever was. So if that means I have to fight Cyborg and beat her, then that's who I'm going to fight and beat. Am I ready today? No.

No. But will I be? How long do you think it takes for you to get ready for someone, given your background because you're not some I mean I don't know listen I don't I'm not I don't care

like I don't think everybody is beatable everybody has a weakness everybody has holes in their game and I think that with the right coaches the right preparation

and the right game plan you can beat anybody so I think it's just you watch her I'm assuming right you see holes in our game yes yeah like what I just think we're two

very different fighters sure you know like it's a good thing How would you fight her? I mean, I'm not, I'm not in charge, so I wouldn't say how I'd fight her. My coaches would, they say jump, I say how high. Well, I just think, I don't know, we're just different. You know, I'm mostly a grappler, so obviously I think, and I don't see her grapple that often.

I don't see anyone make her grapple that often. So I think, I don't know. Wow. I'm excited to meet her. I hear she's really nice. She's very nice. So I'm excited. Someday.

Meet the real cyborg, not the online. cyborg. She's a little different online. Oh, really? Yeah. I don't know. Everyone's different in MMA than what they say they are. You guys are all so... You guys? They're all... Painting me with the same brush? Very much so. Wow. What is that supposed to mean? I don't know. I feel like MMA

has welcomed you with open arms for the most part. No, no, absolutely. I'm loving it. I'm telling you, I take back everything I said after the Olympics. Like, yeah, you were pretty hard. I mean, no, there is a lot of trash talk and I do hate that. But other than that, MMA's been, even just the people, like, the people I've met and everyone's been so helpful. everyone really wants to see me. Well, either that or there's a lot of...

Fake people. Fake people. No, I think you've done TV work. You were well-received. Yeah. Did you enjoy that? Yeah, a lot. Yeah.

You continue to do that? Yeah. Are you going to do the June 7th one, or is that too close? I don't know. We'll see. Okay. You know, my number one priority is the fight, so I just have to get prepared for that. I've also never done it, you know?

Like, I've never even had, like... Is there a chance you just hate this and never do it again after June 21st? Is that a possibility? There is. Wow. I won't do something if I hate it, that's for sure, because life's too short. Right. But.

What would you do if you're not doing this, if you're not training for this? I'll probably just focus on my foundation and maybe teach judo or, I don't know. I don't know. I feel like I'm meant for something more, though, so. Right. More than doing just that. Just pretty damn. I just put it down.

I didn't mean it like that. I just mean like, what's the best way Kayla can help her foundation be the most talked about? athlete in the world. Okay. That's the goal. Why not? I like that. That's a pretty damn, you know, big goal, but why not? Yeah. And do you feel like PFL is the right place for you? You're happy with, you know, the pay, the contract, you're happy with everything. Yeah, they treat me really good. And I think that they're going to treat a lot of fighters really good. You know, it's something that I'm excited to see is it's more about it's making it a real legitimate sport. You know, there's playoffs. There's, you know, a postseason, then there's a championship, and every year there's a new winner crowned.

You know, so you're not like doing this whole like, oh, will they fight? Will they not fight? Is the champ going to show up or are going to have to give the belt to somebody? No, like every year there's a tournament. And at the end of the year, the best person gets the title and a million dollars. Do you know when your tournament will be? Hopefully 2019. But like early, late, middle?

I don't know. Do you know how many fights you'll get before you get a tournament fight? My contract is for four fights, so I really want to fight as much as possible, as fast as possible. She would like to fight multiple times in 2018. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, for sure. At least two, I would imagine?

Push him for three. Okay. Wow. Yeah. Making up for lost time. Yeah. It's been a long time, you know? I want to get in there.

And, I mean, for me, like, the biggest thing, too. Like, in judo, you, if you fight and you lose a tournament, like, it's okay because next month there's another tournament. Right. You know, like, you just get into that habit and into that fight mode. And, like, for me, one of the things that always, I fought, as an Olympic champion, I fought, like, probably 50 or 60 matches a year, which is, like, none of the other Olympic champions were made to do that. My coaches made me do it. But it also, like, I was relaxed in every final because I was so used to being in a final and so used to feeling that pressure and so used to, like, having the lights. Like that becomes your place of comfort.

That becomes like your normal. You know, so the more I fight, the more normal it's going to become, the more dangerous I'm going to become. Well, I wish you the best. Thank you so much. Yeah, I had fun. Yeah, I really appreciate you coming in. You're quite the chatter, though. Boy, I'm going to be, I have a movie premiere I'm supposed to go to.

I'm going to be late. I don't want to say anything. What's the premiere? It's called The Tale, the Tale. And it's actually a documentary about sexual abuse. I think it's going to be on HBO. It's an HBO special. So here I am thinking, wow, we just did such a great interview.

And in your mind, you're like, when will this guy shut up? No, no, that's not what I thought at all. But I have to be there in like 20 minutes. I've got to go change. Okay. Much respect. Thank you so much. Thanks, guys.

Bye. Good luck to you, 21st. Good luck with the book as well. Thank you. Appreciate it. I'll send you a copy. Please, thank you. There she goes.

Kayla Harrison, the two-time Olympic gold medalist, who said that I was quite the chatterer. How about that? That's quite the compliment. as I think she just said hello to Leslie Smith, who will be joining us in a matter of moments here. So that's Kayla Harrison. We just learned that she is going to be making her PFL debut on June 21st against the dreaded TBD opponent. How exciting is that on NBCSN long awaited? And we look forward to that.

Okay. So thank you very much to Kayla Harrison for stopping by. Now, in a matter of moments, I do. believe. Maybe they have to get her miced up here. I think someone's talking to me, but my, oops, oops. Okay. No, we don't need that. Let's go to in studio guest number two. What a weekend it has been for her. Leslie Smith is here. Hello, Leslie. How are you? I'm doing good. How are you? Thank you for coming in. Please have a seat. Sorry for keeping you waiting. No, actually, it worked out just fine. I went to this address in New Jersey. Yes. And then I got

pulled over for switching lanes on the way here. Come on. But everything worked out perfectly because I'm here now. Pulled over for switching lanes. What does that mean? I was in the tunnel and I switched lanes. With the hard line? Uh-huh.

I did it twice. Wow. And you got pulled over for that? Uh-huh. There was a cop right behind you? Apparently. Damn. Because you were worried about being late.

Yeah. Oh, no. I feel so bad. It worked out fine though. He's been training since he was six. The cop? Yes. Did he let you off?

Yeah. He did? Oh, wonderful. Did he recognize you? No. He didn't. No, but I told him that I was on my way for your show. Maybe he recognized you and your show. Okay. Now I feel better. All right. Well, thank you for being here. Yeah, thanks for having me. What has this weekend been like for you? Oh, man, it's been a roller coaster. I mean, a weight cut is always intense. And I came into this knowing, not knowing, but pretty sure that no matter what happened with my fight that come Sunday, I was,

not going to be on the roster because they hadn't asked me about renegotiating my contract or anything. And so I was mentally preparing for that and getting ready for this fight and to do the very best. You know, everybody wants to have a glorious fight all the time, but then especially knowing it's one of the last times that maybe you're going to get to be on that stage. And then the weight cut and then finding out everything that happened afterward. So I found out, as soon as I weighed in, I found out that she had already weighed in and decided not to continue making weight. Okay. And then they said, okay, you've got these options if you want to take the fight and you have to decide by 11, which is, whatever.

Probably not the same restrictions that other people have because most people, their opponent, who doesn't make weight, doesn't make weight until 11. So it doesn't seem like it would be a split second decision for most people. And then they said I could take the 20% of her purse, which is only $2,400. Everyone's like, why didn't she take the? Can I pause you there for a second? I don't want to get too far ahead. I actually want to go way back. Okay.

You had one fight left on your deal, right, going into this fight. At what point did you realize that you were not getting, did they ever, offer you a contract extension. There was never any talks. Did you reach out to them before this fight? Or maybe when you accepted this fight and said, last time of my deal, hey guys, just a reminder, can we talk about a new deal? Were there any talks about an extension? If I win, if I lose, what am I looking at? Any talks like that? No, because I wouldn't have tried to resign or renegotiate a contract anyway, because my value is going to be higher. Okay, so you wanted to roll the dice. I'm a dice roller, yeah. Yeah. So you, you, you weren't

upset about the fact that you were not getting an offer going into your last fight. Oh, yeah, I was upset. Everyone wants an invitation to the party, even if you don't go. Like, I wanted them to ask me. You wanted them to say, hey, let's talk about an extension even before the lad fight. But you were going to say, unless I guess if they're offering you like a crazy $10 million deal, you're saying no. It's likely they say to you're saying no, right?

Yeah, unless it was like $100,000 flat. And you didn't think to say, hey, like going into this fight, could we talk? talk about an extension, you just wanted to go out and have a great performance and then spark those conversations. Yes. But you also said that you had a feeling or an inkling that this would be your last time fighting on this stage. So when did you get that inkling that this offer wasn't coming?

And even if you win spectacularly, it's not coming afterwards. Well, all the project spearhead stuff has, all the unionization and project spirit stuff has, you know, had me a little worried that maybe I'm getting. on the wrong side of things. And I think probably the moment when I realized that it was going to be tough for me to renegotiate was when we were at the fighter retreat last year. May. Yes.

And I asked Kobe Bryant the question about the union that he answered and gave support for it. And I heard that someone was standing next to Ari. I heard that people were, that he was a little salty about that. Ari Manuel. Yes, Ari Manuel. Yes. Okay. And even though I've seen Dana White since then, and I've seen Sean Shelby since then, and they've been positive and smiled, and I still, I mean, I guess in a way I was almost maybe hoping that Project Spirit would be significant enough for them to be a little bit worried about it. And then the fact that they did this unprecedented thing where they bought out my contract so that I wouldn't be around anymore kind of shows that they. do think Project Spearhead is pretty significant.

So you come to terms to the fact that they are not going to offer you a contract, and even if you do something spectacular on April 21st, this is essentially going to be your last fight. You were thinking this is your last fight when lose your draw, right? Well, I had to mentally prepare myself for that, because otherwise it's really depressing to not have anything on the horizon. The times that I've been injured and not been able to know when I've got a fight coming up when there haven't been

I haven't been in between promotions in a very long time but not having something set a goal to work toward. For me as an athlete who's so goal-driven and goal-oriented, it's really depressing. And so I didn't want to let myself

get into anything like that. And so I've been working on preparing myself for the worst-case scenario. Ideally, I would have had an amazing fight and got a knockout of the night. And then they would have have been like, yeah, we do want you. But at the same time, I was preparing myself for the argument that if they weren't going to bring me on to be like, look, I've got,

at Bantamweight, four-fight winning streak, that I've won three out of my last five, four out of my last five it would be. Because right now I won my last fight, I got a stoppage, the one before that I got fight of the night, the one before that was against Cyborg at a catch weight. And the one before that was a win against someone who's only ever been beaten except for by Misha Tate. So I'm doing pretty well. I'm in the top 10. I put on exciting fights and I've been winning them. So having one more win, you know, I was hoping that they would want to sign me again and that I would get to keep fighting in the octagon. But I had to mentally prepare myself for not having that in order to protect my mental self.

And for those I may not know the timeline, this was your first fight since publicly announcing Project Spearhead. Yes. So there's kind of that hanging in the air as well. Were you concerned about the timing of announcing Project Spearhead? Like, did you think maybe I'll announce this? I'll fight my last fight. I know it's coming up.

I'll announce this after that fight. I'll get a new contract. And now here I have a new for-fight deal. they can't get rid of me for four fights. You know what I'm saying? As opposed to announcing it before the last fight, did you think at all about announcing it after you potentially won this fight?

Just wait a few months. Did that ever cross your mind? No, it didn't. Because there's no guarantee for anything for getting re-signed with the UFC. That's one of the beauty about how they structure with being independent contractors for them is that there's no way to know.

And so that was actually one of the reasons that I went ahead and launched Project Spearhead when I did was because I realized that I've got my last fight coming up. And I know that the reason that people pay attention to me that I'm here talking to you right now and that anyone's paying attention or listening is because of the UFC and the platform that I've had from fighting on it. And so I wanted to make the most of that platform for as long as I had it, not assuming that I wasn't going to have it, but not counting on it either after the next

fight. So, so yeah, no, it never occurred to me to wait until I was. What was, so this all went down Friday. I'm assuming you got to Atlantic City. Tuesday? What was Tuesday through Friday? Because now you're Project Spearhead Leslie Smith, right? You're not just Leslie Smith who asked Kobe Bryant a question. There's a lot more there. What was the week like for you in Atlantic

City? Well, I was kind of antagonistic from the very beginning. The UFC holds us to contracts. Everything that we do, they're like, nope, it's in your contract. Unless they feel like doing something nice for somebody and then they you know, good job. That's wonderful, but

they're not obligated to do these things. And they hold us to our contracts. So I got pretty salty as soon as I got off the plane because we had to pay for our own luggage. What do you mean to check in your luggage? To fly with our luggage, yes, to check it. It's 20, we got my corner and I, we had flights on American Airlines. Yeah. And this $4 billion company that I'm going to fight for

that we need our equipment to go do well for. They know we're going to have bags. We had to pay $25 each. I'm paying for it because he's my corner. I brought them out. And that doesn't make sense. That's such a low-level basic way of taking care of the people who are performing for you.

So I was frustrated about that. And then I started looking closer at the per diem, and the per diem amount changes wherever the location is. and for this place, it was $60 a day is what they decided was for the PORDium. And we got there on Tuesday, and we go home on Sunday. That's their return date. They even tell us that's the return date. And that's six days, but they only pay for five days.

And so I sent them an email saying, hey, what's up with the luggage? And by the way, I need another $120, $60 each person for the per diem for the last day. You get one plus one? You plus one. Okay. Exactly. And that's how it is for everybody. That's how it's been for everybody. And so they wrote back. They never said anything about the luggage in the initial exchange.

Who's they? I was talking to Dean, and then he sent me through to the accounting. Okay. And I think that would be Amber was who I was emailing with. And everyone's been super incredibly nice. It's not any of the people. It's the policies. so, that frustrate me.

Right. So I was like, hey, what's up with this? And they're like, yeah, no, we don't pay for the last travel day home. But they should. I mean, it's another day of traveling. That's six hours at an airport. That means I have to get breakfast wherever, not at home. I have to eat while I'm on the plane.

And then, which isn't included in my flight that they got either. And then I need to eat once I get there. because I eat a lot. And then an Uber or whatever to get home. So there's a lot of expenses incurred on the last traveling day home. So to just be like, no, we're not going to do that. So I pointed out that according to the California Labor Code, that they were responsible for that. And then a couple days later, they gave me a discretionary bonus of $500.

Wait a second. So you mentioned the California Labor Code. Why are they beholden to the California Labor Code? Because I'm a California resident. Okay, fair enough. So you mentioned this on Tuesday. Yes. You say, why am I paying for my luggage?

Why do I not have $120 extra in per DM? Their response is, we don't pay for the last day. You come back with California Labor Code, and then they pay you $500? Yes. And is that supposed to be including, we're covering your luggage, we're covering your per diem? The email actually came from Hunter. Hunter Campbell? Yes.

And the Council of the UFC. Yes. and he said that he said that so that I don't need to spend my time worrying about small things like per diems and luggage that they'll just give me this bonus

and then I don't have to worry about it. Are you happy with that? I was, yeah, I needed the money. I mean, I was glad to get the money and I was glad that they were responding to What day was this when this was resolved? I think it was. Thursday. Okay, so it lingered for a couple days.

Yes. Were you stressed out about this? No. You had a feeling it would be resolved? No. Okay. And is this the first time you brought these things up? Because you fought in UFC multiple times before. Mm-hmm. Is it you... Yes, this is the first time that I brought this. Did you not notice this in the past, that you weren't getting paid for the last day, the premium? Internationally, I believe that most international flights include the luggage. So the luggage thing, that's really what set me off in the first place. You fought in Mexico, you fought in Curitiba. Yeah, Mexico, Curitiba.

No. You fought in Quebec? Quebec City. And Brisbane, I fought in Australia. This is your first fight in America? This is my second fight in America. What was the other one? The other one was in Sacramento.

Oh, right. Okay. So you knew that then. Or did you not even fly for that one? No, I just drove over to that one. But you still didn't get the per diem on the last day? Oh, that's a good point. No.

I guess not. But the luggage thing is what set me off so I didn't even look very closely. So once the luggage happened, then I started looking closer. And the way that a lot of the UFC contracts are is they're very vague. And so they have their policies

that they stick to on it. Like for the per diem, they were adamant. They were like, nope, we only pay for these days. We don't pay on your last traveling day home. And I was like, well, it doesn't say that in the contract, that you're only going to pay for the traveling days excluding the last day traveling home. And the standard interpretation of per diem is the daily fees incurred during traveling for a company. So I felt like I had a leg to stand on. And apparently

they did too because they gave me $500. And when I say I was being antagonistic, I mean, I don't think that they are used to being held to their contracts. I think that they are used to holding other people to their contracts and that it doesn't happen very often that a fighter is like, hold on, look at this right here, you guys need to do this because most fighters are pretty reluctant to get on their bad side because they do, they could do something like this. Part of the pun, but were you going to Atlantic City looking for a fight? Like you said antagonistic, were you going there like, I'm going to read every single piece of this contract, find print. Anytime I feel like they're not, you know, holding up to their end

of the bargain here, I'm going to raise a stink. I'm going to go out in a blaze of glory, essentially. You had a feeling this would be it for you. Right. Well, I won't say as much that I was looking to raise a stink about everything and that I was looking for a fight as much as it was that I was looking to be very defensive and very ready about everything. Because even though, like I said, all the individual people have been incredibly nice. Every single person. I mean, I hugged so many people and was like, I'm so happy to see you. And so many people were like, good job, what you're doing.

UFC employees are like, we can't say it very loud, but we think what you're doing is a good thing. It's important. You guys don't get treated very well. And so it's nice to see someone standing up for the fighters. But so in Jiu-Jitsu, when training with people, usually a lot of the injuries come from trying to work with someone and trying to take it light and relaxing and not being defensive and intelligent and so I just you know that's my mentality going in was that I wanted to be aware of everything I don't think anyone's going to put vizine in my water like you know do anything

intentionally destructive to me I'm but I'm still I didn't feel like I was walking into my home territory okay in the way that I usually would before So other than the luggage issue and the per diem issue, any other issues before Friday? No. That was it. Those were the two red flags and you felt like you rectified them. Even though this wasn't like them giving, I'm assuming they didn't give everyone that extra per diem money, but they were kind of giving it to you. Did you even consider like making this a big deal to let the other people on the card know, hey, by the way, I'm getting an extra 120? Yes, I'm still figuring out the best way to go about doing that.

I think I'm going to send emails to everybody or tweet it to every. everybody, but I was getting ready for a fight, and so I didn't have time to do one of my mass tweets and stuff like that. But yeah, that's definitely something. And then, reading the contracts and going over everything, because yeah, I was reading everything, we, as soon as I checked in, they gave us a new bout agreement that was for the state of New Jersey Athletic Commission, and it said that we were going by the old rules that they hadn't adopted the new rules and then it listed some other stuff. It showed my show money and my win money. Further down, it said that if the athlete does everything that they're supposed to do,

fulfills all the requirements, is licensed, makes weight, and the bout doesn't happen, then the promotion is responsible for the total amount. Shown above. Say it again. and win. They're responsible for the total amount shown above was the words that they used. Oh, shown above. What is that amount? Well, above was shown. It had my show money and then it had my win money. So my interpretation of that was total amount is show and win money. So because I had read that and taken a picture of it when I signed it, when I found out that Aspen didn't make weight, I felt like I had an opportunity to negotiate to extend my time in the UFC. And so because I figured they'd have to pay me my show and my win according to that contract,

if that's what I wanted for not fighting. And they just said that they're not rich enough to be paying people who don't fight their win money. So I thought that I could negotiate. that I had some kind of leverage. And so I said, well, you guys would have to pay me this, but we can extend my contract. We can add two more fights on. And instead, they said, no, we're just going to pay you, your show and your win.

It's going to count as your last fight on the contract. And we have no interest in renegotiating another fight with you. By the way, were you given your, I forget how they termed now, people call it incorrectly the Reebok pay, but it's not the Reebok pay. It's sort of the fight week obligate. Were you given that as well? No, I did show up to get on the weigh-in bus so that I could go through the weigh-ins. The ceremonial weigh-ins?

Yes, the ceremonial weigh-ins. You already weighed in, no? I did already weigh-in. And the fight was already called off, but I wanted to go to the ceremonial way-ins so that I could wear the Reebok stuff on the stage to fulfill the obligations in order to get paid. So I'm still, I didn't get. to do that. They said you can't go. They said I could go, but I wouldn't be walking across the stage or anything because the fight was already off. And so I sent an email. We'll see if they're

going to honor the Reebok obligations. What is it? What are you owed? Five thousand. Five thousand. And show and win for you was 62,000, correct? At what point did you, so you weigh in, you make weight, you find out that she misses weight, right? She stepped on a scale, but she missed by 1.8. Yeah, but she did that at 9. Sorry. Actually, yes, you're right. That's a very good point. She was first.

You were second. When you wait in, did you think that she was going to come back? Were you told that she was coming back to weigh in? No, they told us already that she was done making weight. Okay. And so I've been trying. You think that she called it off early because she had no intention of dropping that extra 1.8, right?

Yes. Why else are you coming at 9 a.m.? Why not use the two hours? Yes. And then you're offered 20% to continue the fight, correct? Yes, and that's all that I was offered. She has, both her manager and her coach, messaged my team on cell phones to be like,

hey, sorry about the weight or whatever. They both sent messages. Nowhere did anyone mention $5,000. This is the only time I'm going to say anything about it. That's what they told me as well. That's why they said that they have offered you 5K, in addition to the 20K out of their own purse, so to speak, to take the fight. But you are saying that offer was never brought to your attention.

No. And then when I asked her coach Jim West where that offer, to show me some proof that he sent me that offer, a text message or a phone call showing it, he said, we did it on multiple outlets, on Ariel Halwani show and on Twitter. But that doesn't, that's not. No, that's not an official offer. Yes. I didn't have a show, by the way, on Friday.

Or an interview. Okay. They sent me a statement. Yeah. Yeah. But you were never actually told by anyone involved in these negotiations that she's offering an extra 5K. Had you been told that, would you have accepted the fight?

5K? No. It didn't make a difference. Moopoint. Yeah. Okay. And the 20% of her purse is what again? It would have been $2,400.

Now, for those people who say, just take the 20% and move on with your life, take the fight, do something spectacular. what's your explanation for not taking the fight for just well the ufc immediately said when i tried to negotiate that they would pay me the show and the win money for me not to fight they said that before immediately that was what they went first offer uh for even 20 percent or did yeah yeah really i waited and then the commissioner came over he said hey your opponent didn't make weight you can take 20 percent uh you can take 20 percent uh you And I was like, how long do I have to make this decision?

He said, come back at 11. You have until 11. And what time was it around when you weighed? That was probably like 9.30. Okay. And so I went and thought about it. As I was walking out, Heidi, with... UFC?

No, not with the UFC. She's a reporter, not Heidi Dean, who's wonderful. Oh, Heidi Andrel. I believe so. I believe so. Yes. She was like, what's going on? and I told her that I told her about the contract.

And I was all excited because it was just like right off the top of my head. I was like, oh, I think I have a bargaining point. I think I have some leverage is that I think they're going to owe me this amount because of this contract. And I'm going to try to use it as leverage to get two more fights extended on my contract. Why two, by the way? Any particular reason? Because usually it's like four or six or eight. Why did you pick two?

Is there any reason for that? Well, I've been mentally preparing myself for them to not want to have me around. So you were going for the lowest amount possible? Uh-huh, the second to lowest amount, because then we could be like, okay, how about one? Yeah, which is very rare. But I get it. Okay, just curious if there was another reason for that. So you're talking to Heidi?

I told that to Heidi. And then I told her about the contract and why I thought that I had leverage. And she shared that information, which is fine. that's her job. She's a reporter. That's what I gave it to her for. Yeah. Well, I gave it to her because I was excited. Okay. What were you excited about? That you thought you now had a chip. A chance to stay in the UFC that maybe the day, that maybe on Sunday I would still be an athlete on the roster. Gotcha. And so she, I was always thinking 100 flat, but she,

what do you mean 100 flat? For your new contract? Yes. For two more fights, 100 flat. So no show when? Correct. Because now it's 31, 31? Correct. Okay. And so whatever she shared, because then the lawyer who I had helped me, he, as soon as he got on the phone, he said that they already heard that I want 100 and 100, and that's never going to happen. And that they were just going to pay me the show and the win money and then be done.

with it. And I was like, well, I only meant 100 flat. And what about just adding on just one fight? So immediately, I was like, okay, well, you know, let's back up off of that a little bit. And I threw that out. And I threw out also the idea of fighting anyway, even though I was already going to get the money for it. But that was a really tough decision. And ultimately, even if they had said yes to that, I I would have been like, I can't do that. Because if they're already paying me the money, then I'm already making $62,000 for not fighting. So then if I had fought, it would have been just fighting out of pride to show everyone that, look, I'm not scared of Aspen, and here I am. And I don't want to disappoint all my friends and family.

And I want to get my one last hurrah in this cage, given the situation. And so that was the biggest struggle for me was even deciding whether or not to say that, that I wanted that last fight. But it turns out that that wasn't even an option because they didn't respond to me. They didn't respond to the lawyer who was doing the communication for me. After they said, we'll give you the show and the win, and then that's going to count as your last fight, there wasn't any more back and forth. We put more stuff out there.

they didn't respond back. And so I heard later that one of my teammates heard someone else asking Sean Shelby while we were in the back trying to work it out. And he was like, I don't think this fight's going to happen. And then I heard that Hunter was said that it's already not going to happen. So I don't think that there is, I think the second that I tried to use any kind of leverage, They were like, you're going to use leverage on us. And my chances went down.

Did they ever give you a reason or your lawyer a reason as to why they are not interested in resigning you? Did they ever explicitly say? All they said was, we're paying you out and we're done. They said, we're paying out. And yes. And they said, and done, I don't know exactly what their words were. But then the lawyer who was speaking for me asked if they were saying that they have no interest. in resigning me ever.

And they said, no, that's not what they're saying, just that they have no interest in renegotiating at this time. Did you ever ask? Is it because I'm a part of Project Spearhead? No, I should have. Maybe I will. Did you, I mean, I was just curious if you asked why. Because someone doesn't know any of this story,

and they say, two-fight winning streak, the bonuses you just mentioned, why wouldn't they want someone like you around, right? So I was wondering if you ever got an explicit answer as to why they wouldn't want someone of your caliber around? Well, it's my opinion that it's very clear that it's because of Project Spearhead, because what they did was unprecedented. They've never paid somebody their show and their win money for not fighting.

I think they have in the past. I think Ian McCall got it once, not that long ago. But, I mean, you can't ignore the, and I'd have to look back. What's unprecedented about it, I agree with your term, but what's unprecedented is to be done, because McCall came back, right? It's essentially like, let's just finish this up so that we can cut ties. That's the unprecedented part. I don't recall someone fulfilling their contract in a situation like this.

Do you get what I'm saying? You get the distinction from what I'm saying? And so that's why I'm wondering, look, it's being a little naive. We assume that's the reason. But I was just wondering if they explicitly said, you know, we feel as though. X, Y, Z, your involvement in this, you were antagonists. I don't know. I don't know what excuse they would bring up, but I was just curious.

I guess not. They have not told you why they don't want you around. Right. And maybe I shouldn't be using the word antagonistic, because it's not like I'm going out there intending to make them mad or intending to make them frustrated and not want to have me around. I'm just coming out intending to protect myself as well as possible, because I realize that they're not.

protecting me. They're not doing everything that they can for me. They're not doing everything they can for any of the UFC athletes. I mean, it's $25 to pay for a bag. To not have to do that for the $4 billion company to just handle something

small like that for the athletes, that's not a big deal. The per diem to make it a policy to not pay for the last travel day home, that's not just me, that's all of the athletes. And so that's what I need to figure out is how am I going to structure this so that other athletes can get what's owed to them without

being punished in any way similar to what's happened to me. And so I need to put some thought into that into the best way because ultimately right now the way it is people would have to fight for themselves. And if we can organize and get something structured, that's what a union does, is that the company can't get mad at you. They have to go through the union. The union protects you. And so whether it's a union or an association, we need to have something that's going to be there

to protect the athletes to make sure they're getting their per diems, to make sure that they're getting their luggage taken care of, to make sure that these little things that, I mean, that's part of the reason that we have managers is so that we can't, so that we don't have to be like, no, I don't want that fight. Instead, the manager comes on and they're like, well, what are the different options? What do we have here?

Do you have a manager? Not anymore. Okay. I did, but I... You prefer to do it yourself? At this point, yes. Now I'm going to... Are you surprised?

If it's possible, can you remove yourself? So I'm not asking Leslie Smith this question. I'm asking an knowledgeable MMA person who knows your story, who knows the UFC. are you surprised that the UFC cut ties with you, given everything that's happened over the past few months? I am surprised. Why? Because I think that it opens up an examination of how they feel about my activities in organizing the fighters recently. I think that by doing unusual behavior, that it's going to ask, what are the unusual circumstances that led to this?

And so the next step for, even if it's not me, because I'm supposed to be speaking just as a knowledgeable MMA person, I think the next step for anybody who's in the situation of getting cut the way that I was cut is to follow up with litigation. we're going to file a charge with the National Labor Relations Board. I'm going to look to pursue the California labor law in some way. I feel like if I didn't do that at this point, that it wouldn't be living up to everything that I've been talking about. And that's why I couldn't even take that fight once they'd offered me the $62,000 because then I would have been fighting for free.

And that's been my whole point this whole time is that we shouldn't be manipulated by pride that we need to look at ourselves as a business and fight for the large sums of money that we deserve. And if I had fought for free once they offered me that money, then I would have just poured water all over everything that I'd been working on building. Have you filed a complaint yet? Not yet. And when you say we, who is we? obviously includes you, but who's helping you with this? I don't want to, I mean, it's my plan. I'm through Project Spearhead.

I'm going to talk to Lucas about it. I can't talk about anything that I've already talked with Lucas about because confidentiality issues. If I talk about it here, then it can open it up for other people to talk about it. So none of this is conversations with Lucas. These are plans that I have. And Lucas Middlebrook, somewhat famous in the world of MMA for his work with Nick Diaz. Does he have a title within Project Spearhead?

No. He's more of a consultant. Is that fair to say? But is he your lawyer? Is he your counsel? He hasn't been, I mean, not in any capacity yet. He's been a friend and he's educated me on all this stuff. and he's been really useful for everything.

But no, we don't have any professional lawyer things going on yet. Okay. But we will. One thing that was a little concerning about all of this was, and I can't say that I looked at all 500 accounts, here you are sticking your neck out. I mentioned the last time you were on the show, you have part in my language,

but bigger balls than anyone on the roster, because look, your employment is on the line. And I did not see, I saw Cajun Johnson, who of course is interim vice president. Is that accurate interim vice president? That was the only tweet that I saw publicly from a UFC fighter, active UFC fighter in support of you. Did anyone else come out in support of you? A couple other people have. Publicly?

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, either in comments on tweets or an Instagram. I'm not going to say their names. Okay. It meant a whole lot to me to see them. But there are some. Yeah.

I did not see any of them. Yeah, there are a couple. I wanted to see because here is someone who's trying to galvanize the fighters and I don't see galvanizing for your cause right now, your specific cause. I didn't see anyone do that. But I'm happy that you're saying that there were and that you saw them. Yeah, there were a couple. And I don't need the fighters to publicly show their support for me.

I mean, it would be nice. But isn't that what this is all about? solidarity, unity? Yes, but the situation right now is that it's my opinion that what the UFC did was illegal because they have created a situation where it encourages a climate of fear where the other people in the UFC on the roster

are going to be fearful of publicly organizing and standing up for their rights and being like, hey, look, this is what it says on my contract. I need you to stick to my contract. So by creating a climate of fear that violates federal law, that's the whole point of the National Labor Relations Board and the laws that are in there is because we, it's an American, I mean, we had the Industrial Revolution, and then shortly after that, like, we needed labor unions and they got us weekends, and they got children, child labor. They got all kinds of stuff for us. And they're

still making changes for us. And so it's unfortunate the way that it is that it went down, that it would have been nice if I had been able to avoid taking a fall like this. It would have been great, but the important thing now is to figure

out how to make it so that other fighters don't have to take the fall. And they don't have to do anything publicly in order to protect themselves right now. All they have to do is sign authors, cards. That's it. Nobody will ever know. The National Labor Relations Board will never release their names and will get a showing of interest and then we can get determined to be employees or independent contractors. I strongly believe that we are employees. I think that we are different

from all the other promotions because, like, like Bellator, for example, I think that Belator really is so different in the way that it's structured. First off, they let fire. do cross-promotional things. My teammate, Carrie Melendez, she gets to fight, she got to do a kickboxing, and she's gotten to do MMA through Bellator. Belator works with Glory. They've worked with, I wrote down some notes because I was like, these are good things. They're in talks right now about Ben Ascran and Rory McDonald getting to fight, the 1FC

and Bellator. So they're more open to things like that. And that's a lot closer to an independent contractor relationship. By not having uniforms, by allowing the fighters to have more individuality and get more money. I mean, sponsorships is like $50,000 to $100,000 a year for a lot of fighters. I can't claim that I ever made that before, but I was never in the top 10 before. I didn't have the wins that I have now before that happened. Do you have the 30% yet?

30%? 30%? No, we're not there yet, but we are on track to have it by, we have one year is the way it works. You're a deadline? Yes. Oh, wow. And so what's the deadline? February 12th is when the first card was signed. So we need to get those numbers before February till 12th, and we are on track. Are you more than 50% there?

50% of the 30%. I'm not going to do numbers on here. Why not? Right, yeah. because because I don't want anyone to feel like they like their names are going to come up or I don't want anyone who signed.

I know you're not asking for names, but it's like. You don't want to make anyone uncomfortable. Exactly. Okay, so you mentioned that you believe what they did was illegal. Yes. If you are not classified yet as independent or employee by the NLRB, how could it be illegal? Well, whatever we're classified as doesn't change what we actually are.

You believe that you're an employee. I strongly believe that I'm an employee. You are not officially classified as an employee. Correct. By either the UFC or the NLRB because they haven't been able to look at your situation yet because you don't have the 30%. Correct. So how could there, I'm just trying to lay this out for everyone. Yeah.

How could it be illegal? Is this a product of bad timing in the sense that you're, you know, you are not classified yet. Had this been February 14th, you got 30%, this happens. Wait a second. Now they classify you as employee, but since you haven't been classified yet, and they haven't, as you said, explicitly stated that they are getting rid of you because of your involvement with Project Spearhead,

do you feel like you may have fallen? Do you fear that you may have fallen in this gray area where they'll say no harm, no foul, essentially? No, I'm not worried about that. Because no matter what happens as far as me going, I'm not trying to make a million dollars off of this. It's not like I'm like, this is my lawsuit, so I'm going to come up. So darn it, I'm not in the gray area.

Like that was never my goal with anything. The gray area in the sense that they won't be forced to respond to this in any way. Like it won't hold up in court is what I mean. Right. I hear that. So right now there is a decision that's being made where misclassification will be a violation in and of itself. It's not currently that,

but it's a decision that's being discussed right now is whether or not that's just purely just being misclassified. It isn't like, oh, guess we were wrong. We'll go ahead and fix that. Now it's like, no, if it's a violation in and of itself. Where's it being discussed? The National Labor Relations Board. They are reviewing this.

Yes. Okay. They are making the decision. So there's a chance that even if you don't get the 30% they may look at your situation. Yes. Okay. If that happens.

Yes. And I think that I still have a case because if I bring this and then the first thing that they're going to have to do in order to evaluate it is determine whether or not we are independent contractors and employees. And so that does. You think this may force their hand? Yes. Interesting. Wow. Did you hear from a lot of fighters privately? A lot of people said good thing to me.

Okay. So you feel like maybe the silver lining in all of this is that this may have shed a little more light on your situation and Project Spearhead? Do you feel like if you were not a part of Project Spearhead, you were just Leslie Smith, who's open about this stuff, maybe even Leslie Smith, MMAFA, Leslie Smith, who brought it up to Kobe Bryant, but wasn't Project Spearhead Leslie Smith? You think that you would still be in the UFC? I don't know. I'm not sure. Once I went down this path and I started paying attention to more and more things, it got harder and harder to not talk about things that I'm seeing and paying attention. Like I really wanted to make a big deal about Sasaki only getting $10,000 instead of the $21,000, but he didn't weigh in.

I could have gotten him another $11,000 by asking the New Jersey Athletic Commission to do their. job and make sure that he gets paid because he fulfilled all of his obligations, but the fight was called off before he actually stepped on the scale. He was told not to weigh in, though. Really? From my understanding. That's interesting. The fight is off, is what they say.

Now, there are situations where we've seen recently in Brooklyn, Anthony Pettus weighed in, and someone else, was it Brandon Moreno? I think Brandon Moranio, who was supposed to fight Ray Borg, also weighed in. But my understanding is that there's a new policy that if they are, you know, going to offer you a fight in relative short order. I don't know if it's exactly 30 or 60 days. They are now going to pay you 10K as opposed to just your show money. If they can't get you a fight and you make weight, weigh in, they tell you not to weigh in. Your opponent falls out on way in day. Then they're going to pay you your full show. When this was told to me, I said, I said,

well, where is this written? Like, is this a policy that the fighter signed off on? Again, this to me all comes down to collective bargaining, right? Having a seat at the table. hey, we're going to implement this, whether it's Reebok, Usada, this new 10K policy, who from the fighters are speaking up collectively on your behalf? And it just seems like no one is. So they can change these policies willy-nilly. It seems like in the Lorenzo-Fortita era, they were okay with paying show money. That seemed to be the norm.

But the new norm seems to be if we're going to offer you a fight rather quickly, you're going to get 10K and if we can't give you a fight, you're going to get your show. Does that make sense? Yes, it does. I'm not saying I agree with this, by the way. I think that my theory is that

no one, let's be honest, no one who was going to AC return their ticket because Uca Sasaki and Magamad Bibbolatov weren't fighting on the card, right? I mean, I don't think anyone. So, in other words,

I don't think the UFC lost any money as a result of that fight falling off the card. They were prepared to pay show money for Sasaki, show money for Bibulatab, and one of those guys is getting win money and maybe even a discretionary bonus, right? In the end, they walk away from that fight with just having to pay 10K.

So it actually worked out in their best interest that the fight fell off. Now, if it's Kevin Lee and Edson falling off, now we're talking about something else. But if it's a low-level fight pass or low-level FS-1 card of fight on the prelim card, it actually works out on their best interest.

Does that make sense? That's my issue with the whole show win breakdown because it actually ends up being favorable to the promotion if they're just going to pay you 10K or show if this fight falls through because no one's giving back

the money's already allocated. They were already prepared to pay show, show one win. Totally. I completely agree with that. I'm glad to be learning about that right now. that that's a new policy and you're right. That is another reason.

How is a fighter who's fighting on the car and not even know this? That's a great question. Did you know that in New Jersey because we had someone on the show earlier talk about this, Kevin Lee, did you know that Aspen didn't get an extra? Because when they were in Glendale,

Brooklyn, you get either an hour or an extra two hours after not making weight. Did you know that in New Jersey it's a hard stop at 11. I realized that after I read an article, but I didn't know it at the time. But she was already rehydrating by the time that I waited. Shouldn't you guys know this going into the fights?

Oh, absolutely. They should be a list of. Oh, they didn't, especially something like we were on the old rules. So like we could do the three points of contact. You didn't know that? I knew that because I was like, hey, what's up? I'm signing this. It says we're going by these rules.

What is this to me? But you only found out upon, you didn't know this two months. ago. No, I only knew this because I was reading the contract and I was like, hey, Dean, what's up with this contract? What are these rules that it's talking about? And he was like, hold on, let me call somebody. And then they called somebody else and then they called back and said, okay, here are the rules. If I hadn't done that. And then he was like, well, you know, we would have gone over them before the fight. But who listens to the rules right before the fight? I'm sorry. Maybe everybody else does, but I don't. I'm getting ready for fighting.

agreement that you signed two months ago, right? Yeah. This is where you're fighting. These are the cards that you're playing with in this state, right? Because every state is different. Yeah. One hour here, old rules there. Finger pointing there.

I mean, it's crazy how I feel for you guys. In the midst of a fight, how are you supposed to think, is it three point here or is it, you know, like, who thinks of these things? Can I open my hands? It's madness. No. And especially a person is going to fight, like, however they train. So unless they're like, oh, I can take advantage of this new rule or I need to be careful so that I don't violate this new rule, that happens and gets ingrained in the training ahead of time. It's very infrequently that someone hears something minutes before they go out to fight.

And then they're like, okay, all right, let me just implement that or change that or take advantage of that. I will say, though, and I know you don't have a manager and, you know, kudos to you for doing this on your own. I do think a lot of the onus does go on the manager's shoulders. The managers, you can't expect the UFC to just be nice now and say, hey, we're going to pay you a show or, hey, we'll pay your show and win, which they've done, as I said, a couple times in the past. I feel like everything needs to be in writing. If my opponent misses weight, but I weigh in, I get X. If my opponent misses Wade on Thursday and I don't weigh in, I get X. It can't just be willy-nilly anymore.

Right. Do you think this needs to be all in writing? Totally. I completely agree. So they're kind of just taking advances to the fact. that everyone's sort of asleep at the wheel on the other side of the fence in my opinion. Well, it's that climate of fear. It's not just for organizing, but it's also just for talking about, like saying, asking for more

or saying, is this how it goes? Because they don't just explain things to you. They don't just offer you everything just because you're there. Like, a person has to ask for things. A person has to have some idea of what's going on in order to get anything. And coming into the UFC, I didn't know anything. I was just really excited to be there, which I imagine most other people are. And I wasn't going to ask any questions.

I was just going to go out and I was going to do my best. And I was going to win fights. And I was going to show them that I'm going to be number one. And then people are just going to fall all over themselves because I'm so amazing. That's the mentality. Yeah, most people have that mentality. Yes. And so that's one of the reasons that we need collective bargaining.

because all the issues are the same issues for all the fighters. It's not like when people, some of the conversations that I've had, people have been like, well, they've been nice to me so far. I don't know if I want to sign a card yet because they've been nice to me so far. Or I don't know if I want to go public with it. If I'm in conversations, usually they've already signed a card. But they're like, well, I don't want to go public with it because the UFC has been nice to me so far. But even in that statement that so far indicates that everyone realizes that eventually everybody gets cut.

Or their interests don't line up with the UFC's interests. And as soon as the fighter's interests don't line up with the UFC's interests, then that fighter gets thrown under the bus in some way, shape, or form. I mean, Amanda Nunes, when she couldn't fight because she had that sinus thing. And then Dana White was like, yeah, I don't know why she didn't fight. she was cleared. I don't remember exactly the words. But I got the impression that he wasn't backing her up. He was like, yeah, I don't know either.

And then she had to shut down her social media because there was so much hate coming at her after that. And that's a champion of the company, making an intelligent decision based on their own health and what they know is a smart decision to do for their career. Eventually, all the fighters are going to have the same issue, and that's why collective bargaining is so important. And to get there, we have to sign the card.

Are you worried that now that you're not in the UFC, you won't be as effective as the leader of Project Spearhead? I am a little bit worried that my platform has gotten smaller. Yeah. But Project Spearhead doesn't necessarily need a leader. Like, I don't need to be the president of Project Spearhead. But someone needs to galvanize the troops, right? Well. You need to be the Kurt Flood of this thing.

You know what Kurt Flood is, right? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't want to die. penny list like Kurt Flood or anything like that. You know his story how it ended. I mean, what he did was incredibly heroic, but it did cut short his career. And it took years, actually, before it was like another 13 years before they actually got free agency and baseball after that.

Right. But there still needs to be someone to be the catalyst. Yeah, and hopefully I have been the catalyst. Hopefully, my challenging the contracts and saying, that's another thing is that I hope that fighters realize now, too, that any time their opponent doesn't make weight, that's an opening to renegotiate. They don't have to take the 20%. That's a place where we're all manipulated by pride because people are like, yeah, okay, I'll just take it. That's not on the contract. Okay. Will you continue with the project spirit?

Totally. I'm 100% going to continue with project spirit. Are you worried that no other promotion will sign you as a result of your stance? Are you worried that Bellator won't sign your PFL or one or I don't know, any other promotion under the sun? Gosh, I hadn't really thought about that. Are you worried? Look, I'm not comparing you to Colin Kaepernick, but people can be blackballed in sports, right? You know this. Yeah, it's true. Are you worried that you will be blackballed? Well, I don't feel like the other promotions are as controlling as the UFC. And I feel like, like I was talking about Bellator earlier. Like, I feel like that's a great place for a fighter to get to show their individualism. They get to work on their sponsorships. They're not restricted to staying with just inside of their sport or their contract. I, I've always wanted to do boxing. Kickboxing would be cool. I've always wanted to fight in Japan.

You know, Risen would be a cool thing. I've always... Have you reached out to anyone yet? No, not yet. You don't feel like this is the end of your career. No. Because even if you do continue elsewhere, Belator, Risen, Juan, whatever, you still have a platform. Yeah, and I'm still top 10 in the world.

Right. Like, nothing's going to take that away. I don't know where else, unless someone wants to start a 35-dine. division for me. I kind of see myself going down to 25 which I've done twice in the past and I feel like I would be better at it now than I ever have been.

And has this shine the light on your, like are you getting inquiries from outside the MMA bubble because of this strange, very unique, somewhat unprecedented turn of events and your connection to

a story that is prevalent in other sports. I mean, we We hear about CBA and strikes and unions and baseball and basketball. Every sport has this, right? We're still playing, as I like to say, in the 1920s era and football where they were just wearing leather helmets and so much has changed in the last 80 years. I think in 60 to 70 years we'll look back on this era and say, I can't believe that things were being done this way.

I'm wondering if this story got big enough to where you're hearing from people outside of the MMA bubble media that are, again, another silver lining. Yeah, I just did an article. for, I think it was Forbes Women's Forbes, something like that. And I've been talking to different people, sports law, people are very interested in the situation. And I've been, a lot of people have reached out to me. I've been a little bit caught up, so I haven't responded to a whole bunch of people. In fact, I just got to hang out with my parents.

What a time to have your parents here, huh? Yeah. Gosh. Yeah. You know, what was really nice, though, is that I was able to give my dad a project spearhead hat. I do. And I have a Project Spearhead shirt. Look at that. Yeah.

For us? Yeah. One of them is for you. Okay. And then I brought another one. Something that we're doing is because I'm going to start litigation and I'm going to have legal fees. And a lot of people have asked me, how can they support, what can they do? So we're going to sell some of the shirts. Not a ton of them, only a couple.

But there's also going to be a go-fund-me. We're starting a go-fund-me. I was so reluctant to start a go-fund-me because of the stigma of a go-fund-me fighter. But it is going to take money in order to litigate and file all these claims and do things. Is it released yet?

Is it public the go-fund-me? Yes, it already has been created. I haven't shared it yet. Okay. So I'm going to share it after this. This is the first time I'm sharing it. But what I made myself, what I told myself in order to feel better about it, so I don't feel like it's a GoFundMe fighter thing,

is that it's more like the UFC is acting like the Walmart of MMA, in that the fighters need to be subsidized in order to take care of themselves. And so I don't feel like it's... It's a reflection on me as a GoFundMe fighter because that's not what it's about. It's about getting the help that we need in order to make things right for the fighters. Do you believe come February 12th, 2019, you will have the 30%? Do you believe this will all be worth it? Yeah.

Okay. I do. And it will make it all worth it. I was going to ask you if you could sign one of these actually. Sign it. What do you want my signature for? Well, I know that you have a whole bunch of fans. Yeah.

And so I thought that maybe we could auction off some of these shirts. and that that would be a pretty cool thing. You could think about it. Yeah, yeah, let me do that. I don't even have a pen here. Do you have a pen? No, that's way more force. I'm happy to take it.

I have a lot of respect for you because even if someone doesn't necessarily agree with every step of the way to stick your neck out and to, you know, potentially lose out on opportunities is a very courageous thing. You don't need me to tell you that.

So I wish you the best. And I'm sorry that it ended up this way. But look, you know, there have been trailblazers in the past, like Kurt Flood, as we mentioned, and others who have had to sacrifice, you know, their own kind of current goals and things that you are looking to achieve for the greater good. And it sounds like you're ready to do that. So good luck to you. Thank you. And hopefully I won't have to make that big of a sacrifice. Hopefully my career is going to go to another promotion and then it's going to be a million times better.

You don't want to go back to the UFC? I'd love to go back to the UFC. I'd call you tonight and said, you know what? Let's forget this out. You're open? I'm totally open under the right terms. Yeah. Well, keep us posted.

Thank you for doing this. And I'm sorry that you went to the wrong address in Newark of all places, but I'm glad you finally made it here. And I'm happy you didn't get a ticket because that would have been insult to injury, as they say. Thank you for doing this lesson. I really appreciate it. I appreciate it. Thank you so much.

And please keep us posted on your progress. I totally will. All right. There she is. Leslie Smith. Someone else coming here. Can I leave? No.

Yo, go ahead. Yeah, yeah. That's it. We are done. They're going to kill me back there because I've gone way too long. But it was worth it. I don't regret a thing. Thank you, Leslie.

All the best to you. There she goes. Leslie Smith. A fascinating chat with the interim president of Project Spearhead, Leslie Smith. All right. So out of time here. So we've gone so long. Let me wrap this up.

If you're watching us on Twitter, stay right there. If not, if you're on YouTube or Facebook or MMA Fighting, go right now to live.com slash MMAfighting. This shaping up to be our longest show yet, but we still have to hear from New York, right? Because it's not a show unless you hear from New York, right? All right, live.tot Twitter.com slash M.AFighting. The M.A After Hour starts right now. And we are back, the MMA After Hour. We have never gone this long. But it has been worth it, my friends. What a day it has been.

I believe there was something... No. I want to thank all our guests. I want to thank all 14 of them. What a show it has been. What a day it has been. I want to thank everyone who's tuned in. Now it's time for everyone's favorite segment.

It is time! And now it's time to open up your ears and your minds. MMA fans, it's time for Rick's Picks. Rick's Picks. Rick's Picks are lots of fun. And his hair is in a bun. You already know what it is. Wicks PICS.

Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, it's the moment you've all been waiting for. It's the new craze taking the world by storm. Live from the Vox Studios in beautiful New York City, it's time for Rix PICS. Everyone very upset that my Habib photo is crooked. Let me fix that. Indeed.

Because, I mean, you could have told me. One second. Yeah, there was plenty of time for that. There was plenty of time for that. We're going to jump into Rick's picks while Ariel is fixing that. We start here. That was great. You're looking more and more like Zorro these days.

What's going on with the facial? Zorro? Yeah, you got the roly fingers mustache. You got the long beard. What's happening? Look, you know what? What do you need to say? We're going for it.

This is amazing. Okay, what do you got? What do you got? Okay. EFC. 69. Wayans. We have

JP Byes here with Felipe Rouch. Let it replay, though, because you missed the best part of this. Did you see this one? I did not. Oh, boy.

You're in for a treat here. Okay. When it replay... Good stare-down, by the way. It ended up being, you know, tense, good stare-down. But you'll see that the stare-down started off.

with a bit of posturing in one of the most interesting ways I've ever seen. So we'll continue to tease it for the audio listeners, here we go. Videos pulling back. Oh, baguette. He's going to

touch him with the baguette. And didn't he? Oh, wow. Holy smokes. Steely. And then the baguette is confiscated. So South Africa's JP buys. I like it. Do you know what this reminds me of?

Frenchman with a baguette. It reminds me of that time Matt Barnes tried to inbound the ball. And he didn't flinch. Kobe didn't flinch. Creativity off the charts. Bring the baguette to the way and smack him with it. Okay. This one from AFC 139, this clip was passed around a lot on fight pass.

The reason, now, the edict on Rick's picks is positivity only, no negativity. So you would think that this wouldn't be a candidate because somebody, was given a fight that they thought they won, but then they ended up losing. The reason we're featuring this is because the eventual winner was so good-natured about the fact that he thought he lost, he went, you know what, I guess I lost, and turns out he actually won.

But no love for the announcer who got this one wrong twice and then flipped it. Can't be doing that. Come on. Let's clean that up a little bit. Okay, Marcelo Rojo or, yeah, Rojo, getting a knockout here, but the celebration. Do you see this? Wow. Tyrannosaurus Rex or maybe Raptor, Phloceraptor?

Yeah, you got to get your dinosaur right on that one. My son would be good at this. You know who would be good at this? George and Pierre. Wow. From Instagram. if we would have lived 66 million years ago, I'm sure a few of us would have ended up getting eaten alive

by this amazing creature, Tyrannosaurus rex. GSP pictured here, sticking his head in the fossil of a Tyrannosaurus rex. I just love his love of dinosaurs, dinosaurs, women, and the violence of the octagon. One of the all-time great lines. Here we see Kevin Lee getting wobbled, which led to some funny memes here

from UFC Fighter Eddard. it's Kevin Lee on the runway getting wobbled. I still feel weird about this sort of thing. What? Look, he won, so all's well, you know, in love and war, but I just feel weird about mocking a guy

who was in a... Ugh, give me a brave. I have too much respect for the athletes of this sport to be mocking them with gifts and whatever these things are. No, if you can't have a good nature about it, then... If he's okay with it, I guess I'm okay with it,

but I just, I feel weird about it. it. Speaking of feeling weird, this had awkward potential, but ended up being kind of a nice moment. How about Ben folks? Capturing the footage. Illegally. Ben. Easy. Easy. I mean, I expect this from you know, Kosa or one of those guys.

But geez, Louise. Dan Hooker here, post-fight, being interviewed by Paul Felder. Let's bring the audio up. what a performance now that kind of is on top of all hooker did it well he did it tactfully

but that a high potential for somebody if it wasn't Paul felder to really take that the wrong way No. And he handled that like the pro of pros. So shout out to Dan Hooker for shooting a shot and for Paul Felder for being all class. And saying, look, maybe I'll give you that opportunity if the UFC makes it. So I like this moment. The two right people executed this.

Otherwise, it had potential to go hard. Matt Serra, making it into the UFC Hall of Fame. We'll actually talk about that in more detail a little bit. later, but congratulations to the Terra, Matt Serra. Yeah, well-deserved. There's no doubt about it. I will say, I hope that they're, you know, if I were them, I would expedite a few. Because, like, man, Frank Shamrock's still not in there.

Jens Pover is still, sure. There's-oh's-as-Jens-Polver not in there. I feel like because of the way they do it, though, each year, there's one per. Was that just Mark Romney that I saw? I don't know. I looked down. Yes. It was, yeah.

Confirmed by Austin. Weird. Mark Mundie, Joe Lowe's on Chris Wyman. I'm just kidding, Mark. That's actually why I picked this. I picked this because you're in it. Some fights also announced or confirmed over the weekend. Max Holloway versus Brian Ortega happening July 7th.

What a fight. Finally get it. Also, Francis Ngano versus Derek Lewis confirmed. July 7th. I mean, what a card. Which led to Derek Lewis posting the new. rule set. It's interesting that they adopted a new rule set for this fight. The unified

rules will include rounds will be one minute long. Points will be taken away for any take down attempts. And 10 minutes of rest between rounds. I like this. I like this new rule set. That's been placed for Ingana. The old picture of Engano. Let's get a new one.

Yeah. Come on there. He's lost the braids. I think I think I'm down for this, though. I'm glad they've taken this. You're about that life? Yeah, I'm about that life. Korean zombie posting that he wants Frankie Edgar next.

Wow. An interesting way, himself and Frankie Edgar in the EA UFC game. How about his rating, too? Korean zombie with a 90 rating. Shout out. Almost as close as Frankie. Almost as high as Frankies. I wouldn't mind that fight.

I like that fight. John Jones, taking a minute of his day to address Alexander Gustafson. Oh, God. saying you beat me in three. Your hands are the only thing you had over me in our first fight. The gap is closing fast. Our first fight will be the greatest thing you've ever done inside of that octagon.

You'll never beat me. That's my promise to you. I love petty John Jones. It's my favorite John Jones, and he's really, really good at it. Mike Perry sent a friend request by Kelvin Gaston recently on Facebook. And replying with,

I told you I didn't come here to make friends. Jokere, going to strangle you anyways. and also Kelvin Gastilum. He's not, Mike Perry is not here to be your Facebook friend. He is here to strangle you. Yes. Or in this case,

he's here to watch Jackaray strangle Calvin, but he's not here to be boys. Rory McDonald and Ben Asgard getting into it over the weekend, or actually during last week, Rory McDonald's saying he asked Scott Coker to get Ascran into Belcher to do a fight. There was a lot of back and forth here. I'm picking some moments from it. Ascran saying that this was never offered previously.

He approached Rory and he told him that he'd be an easy night's work. And confirming that he would be an easy night's work, has been Ascran about Rory McDonald. Rory McDonald's not interested in the semantics of the situation saying, I'm about the future, not going to dwell on you backpedling when it came down to it. Do your part and sign up liquor professional. Rory done with the Twitter back and forth. Sign the contract and let's do it.

Sign the contract. sign the contract. I'm here for this fight, but Ben Ascran's still under contract with one-fc. That's the problem. That's a little... Yeah, the little issue is that... Shotry Sitchotong tweeted about it on Saturday, I believe.

Yeah, saying that he would like to do a joint fight. I don't know. I don't know if that's a viable. I mean, Coker has a history. He has done some co-promotion. As Lyssey-Smith pointed out. Yeah, we'll see. But for now, on hold. It stays on Twitter.

Devin Powell, tweeting at The Rock. to which the rock responded Wait, ball Devin Powell? Ball Devin Powell. Jesus. Wait, time out. Is that how we're going to call?

Is that what we're going to say about it for that? Rupured testicle. Devin. Like is his name automatically preceded by something about the testicles? 100%. To which the rock replied Devin seeing Rampage and showing him some love.

The rock replied, Ha ha, brother, I appreciate the rampage of love. I've been evicted. Evicted? Yeah. Evicted? Oh, yeah. I guess Powell,

tough times. He's been evicted before, so please pay the mortgage. And then he says, and Dana White, put me in the octagon with Stepe so I can take him straight to his favorite restaurant

because I prefer my jaw unbroken. The Rock paying homage to the baddest man on the planet, knowing his role, as he might have said a few years ago, and showing Steepie that proper respect. Speaking of movie stars, out from the wrestling world,

belt promotion here for Big Dave Batista going through the gauntlet there Caesar Grazy! Yeah, wow, I haven't seen him forever. For Big Dave. Oof, what do you get? What color? Oh my God. Oh!

Look at those abs. Ooh! What's funny is I feel like he's kind of like not probably that hurt because he's so jacked. Geez. Imagine rolling with that guy? Also. Yes.

From the movie and fighter world. Yes. The Equalizer 2 trailer came out. Uh-huh. Are you familiar with the Equalizer? Denzel Washington. I'm not. Left his life of being like an assassin or hitman and kind of gets dragged back into it.

But relevant because Andre Arlowski. Oh, featured. How's Tase? How's Tase? And we're going to go over this fast, but later, there's also a scene with Jay Huran. so Jay Haran Some of

Amas Yeah and Haran's been In a few other movies before Arlowski Getting some love here And then Haran I think this is the scene Coming up here

Maybe maybe not It's a car scene But Shout out to the world of MMA Featured in a big way Speaking of the world of MMA Crossing over and celebrities Oh

One Ovin St. Prue being a celebrity judge for the 22nd annual Hooters Paget. What? Yeah. Big things. OSP. If you need help, listen, OSP, I'm here for you.

Celebrity judge for the 22nd annual. I never heard of Lynn Austin. Chase Elliott, I think I've heard of. I think he does NASCAR or something. There's two NASCAR drivers in there, so which one is he, though? Yeah. Well, I figure they're going in order. And that's pretty much it.

All right. OSP, the big star there, clearly. Yes. Big Star cited. Yes. At the Blue Jays game. Yes. Yankees Blue Jays.

Yes. Reping the Expos. Eddie Gribben with the screenshot. Yes. Thank you, Eddie. Showing Ariel here at the game. Can I tell you what happened? Yeah.

Talk us through this real quick. So my wife was working on Saturday and the Blue Jays happened to be in town. And so I say, I'm going to take my two sons. Now you see one over there. That's Walter with his head turned. And I'll tell you why his head was turned. I wish that it was a, I wish it was just a better,

just screen guy because right to my left there, you can kind of see my other son Oliver's shirt. So I'm there with my two sons. My wife is working, not the biggest sports fan, not the biggest baseball fan. So I don't have to really worry about, oh, is she going to like this idea or not?

It's boys day out. Beautiful day in New York. Take my kids to the Blue Jays game, or as they would call it the Yankees game because they are Yankees fans. Rightfully. They're essentially, fan of any team that I'm not a fan of.

And I'm sitting there. And yes, a good one, well played. I'm sitting there. And then all of a sudden I get texts from a bunch of people saying, you were just on the Roger Sportsnet feed of the Yankees Blue Jays game. I can't believe it. So all of a sudden I get the screen grabs and everything. And then I see a friend of mine who was watching at home,

sent me a video of the whole sequence. It was coming out of a commercial. They were running down, you know, this text thing that they were doing. So they're showing all the different Blue Jays fans or Canadian fans in attendance. And then they end with me. The announcers never acknowledge me,

but that was in fact me. And why are we looking back? Why is my son? Because at that moment, I notice, as I'm sitting there in the middle, sons on left and right side, I notice that my son, Walter, whose four is, like, his back is towards the field.

By the way, got great seats via stub hub. Um, not, um, No. What is it? What is it? No. No. Moving on.

Continue the story. I just thought that by Brock Lester moment. No. Oh, what is it? It's something with a G. S, something with an S and something with a G. But we won't talk about that. We will talk about what your son.

Completely like that. Anyway, he's actually going through someone's purse. The woman behind there, he's going through her purse. Oh, you taught him early. Yes. Great. Going through her purse. What did you get?

And I look back. I'm like, Walter, what are you doing? can't go through someone's purse. So that's what's happening. in that precise moment. Anything good? Like wallet, keys? To her credit, she was a great sport about it.

She said, oh, she'd even stop him. I noticed. She was watching him. So your moment where you're featured on TV is actually your son going through someone's purse and back in the back. Pocketing somebody. I don't even know what he was thinking.

I mean, he's four years old. He knows better than to do that. In the end, the... This is a great cover, by the way, so that when you start your pickpocking up... Pickpocketing operation. Actually, I was, I was embarrassed. I was appalled.

We lost, we lost 9 to 1. Who's we? Which team? I didn't even know at this point. But we had a wonderful time and there's nothing like it. It was beautiful outside. It was like, good day at the ballpark is 17 degrees. Celsius. Yes. And that's coming from somebody who's not a big baseball fan. A good day at the ballpark is nice.

I honestly sat there. We had three slices of pizza each and I sat there and I thought to myself, this is what heaven feels like. Even though you lost. Well, it shows, you know, really passionate about the first inning. First inning. It was nothing nothing at that point. So anyway, it was nice. You know, it does lead to another point.

We're very passionate about certain things. Yes. In certain teams. But not there to support the Utah Jazz. Not in attendance like our fan here, Justin Humphreys. He was at the Jazz game? Who was at the Jazz game wondering, where were you? Well, I mean, where are you, Hawani?

He's there. Look, he's there supporting the Jazz. I have work to do. Where are you? This is incredible. He was actually at the game? He was at the game. Yeah, he posted some other photos.

How did I not see this? This is a great tweet. There's probably a lot of fans tweeting you about not being a game. Just got a quick shot of my Rudy Gobert, a bobblehead that is a arm. Yeah, are you going to send it to Justin? My Jonas Jerebko signed Jersey, who, by the way, had an amazing game after he was featured on this program.

Look at that. He did. Yeah. Yeah, four for five. I think 10 points total. My Rudy Gobert, defensive player of the year catalog over here.

My Bonovan Mitchell, rookie of the year, newspaper right over here. I mean, this is a first class organization. Now, can we talk about

how do you like their odds right now? As I predicted, in five. They're up to one. It's going as planned. Tonight, right? Yeah, I think they're in 30. Planning again tonight.

It's going as plan. Glenn. Ricky Rubio is killing it. My man, Ricky, Derek favors doing his thing. The world is taking note and I would urge all to jump on the bandwagon unlike what's happening in Ohio and my man Lance Stevenson doing his thing. We need to get more matching uniforms or outfits or suits or whatever those things are and get on the same page. But over in the great state of Utah, we are taking note. Look at that. Look at that.

Jonas Jerepco, my man. And shout out to Derek, who makes it all happen. Derek Garunio. I wanted to say his last thing, but I didn't want to butcher it last week. The great Derek Garndunio, who is a huge, huge, mixed martial arts hour and beat fan.

And, I mean, I cannot be proud of. I'm glad you guys worked it through after you threw him under the bus last week. So what a great care package. It just was. just in time for the playoff run. Okay, let's get these questions. Yes, let's go rapid fire because I don't want everyone to hate that.

Don't worry, there weren't a ton of great ones today. The people let me down on this. So we're going to, we're going to repeat. I get phenomenal questions. Yeah, you know, I think the fans are kind of ready for an hour show and then they can ask those questions. I don't know about tomato. We made history today.

14 guests. Do we maybe a surprise one? Do you want to call up somebody? No, I'm good. You got no more. Okay, we start this week, how we start every week, with the question of the day from Ariel Hawani. The MMIA question of the day today is within the next 10 years, will USC fighters come together to form a fighters association that will be recognized by the promotion? It's interesting.

You talk to somebody today. Yes. It was related to this conversation. Yes. Well, that's why I did it. Wow. with 13,000 votes in, 58% say yes, 42% say no.

So the fans confident. All right. More confident than me. The fighters will form an association. More confident than me. That will be recognized. Thoughts on Matt Sarah going into the UFC Hall of Fame here. Well deserved.

Pulled off one of, if not the greatest upset in UFC history. He won tough four, multiple time coach, of course, the big win over GSP, the first guy to win tough and become a UFC champion. I have no issues with it. I mean, of course, I have many issues with the Hall of Fame, but overall, how can you, yes, in my opinion, he is a Hall of Famer.

And I love the class so far. I love that they're honoring Bruce Connell, the late Bruce Connell, who was a longtime producer for two decades. And I'd love to see more get in. But I love that it's become a tradition, finally. They're taking page out of WWU, so it's on the right track. Thoughts on tough as a reality show, it is a high success rate, even if you don't win. What are your thoughts on tough?

I feel like I've been pretty open with my thoughts on time. I think this is a different question. Are you watching tough? How do we think of the season, the new season with Steve Miotruchin and Daniel Cormier kicking off on Monday. but I think it's apt and accurate to say that tough has still, even in this era where not as many people are watching, produce talent that does eventually make it to the big show.

I think as a vehicle for producing talent, it is still some kind of success. More so in the past, though, because I feel like there were less events, which means more talent. And the quality of fighters, the guys on Tough One had lasting legacies and longevity. but I think

what we could say is that Dana White's Contender Series also has an opportunity to do that. That's the new Tuff and I think it's interesting

that they're almost grooming contender series to be in the place of Tuff once the new TV deal kicks in. The reality is there are at least

two seasons left including this one so the one that's going to end on July 6th and then the one that will end in December I would be surprised

if Tuff remains it's part of the contract so it sort of it had to run its course, but I think they have done a great job of grooming contender series to be the replacement of tough. And I think that they will find

that they will be able to sign greater talent via the contender series rather than tough because you don't have to go through the whole six weeks in the house and weighing in four times and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Of course, very interesting that they

have signed Greg Hardy that's right. The often criticized and very controversial, Greg Hardy of, formerly of the NFL, the same weekend, that news comes out, the same weekend as Leslie Smith, getting her, you know, contract fulfilled.

That is one that I'm curious to see. Of course, it's not officially the UFC, but Dana White's name is attached. I'm curious to see how that one is met by the mainstream media. Absolutely. Friend of the show, Chris, Chris Kit, which are the busiest weeks of your career?

Was it, was it, UFC 200 week? Was it the conference? this recent Brooklyn slash Connor McGregor week was it Mayweather McGregor? What was the Mayweather McGregor was nuts? Yeah, Mayweather Graham was nuts

because we did three live shows plus and that was crazy because I was essentially booking the MMA hour daily and then we had the beat live and then we had the whole stakeout at the gentleman's club

in the midst of all that plus the event plus all the media surrounding it. Plus, it was an early fight week, which started Tuesday as opposed to the usual Wednesday, so I'd probably give that a nod. Yeah. But

come fight night was the easiest, because I only really cared about one fight. Like, of course, I was interested in Giovante Davis and Gadu Jack, but really, from our perspective, we were only covering one fight. Yeah, you get to enjoy that. So that was the rare one where come Saturday, it actually like Saturday was the easiest day of the mall. The last one in Brooklyn was nuts.

200 was nuts because of all the John Jones. stuff. So those three might, and then a couple years ago where they had three cards, Thursday, Friday, Saturday was also kind of nuts. Aiden says, he always likes seeing you wear variations of Nike sneakers. Which are your favorite?

What are your favorite Nike sneakers? Of all time? Yeah. Well, SB is my favorite. You like the skateboarding line of sneakers. I'm a big skateboarder. I like to do, you know, the dollies and the wheelies. Wait, what? The 640s, the 720s.

skateboarding is my thing Dolly? I mean is that a Connard McGregor? I don't know. And the Miss Pac-Man's were my favorite. I can't find them anymore. I beat them up.

Yeah, look it up. Miss Pac-Man. Jeez, you had Miss Pac-Man sneakers? Yeah, they were incredible. They were pink and blue. Who is it that's a big Miss Pac-Man fan? Huh? Brad Stevens.

Is he? Brad Stevens revealed as a Miss Pac-Man player. Oh, player? 99% sure? Like has the unit in his basement? I think. No, I don't really care for the game all that much, but the actual sneaker.

No, I know. That just came to mind. Same for me. I don't know. I don't have a favorite Nike. Actually, you know what? I like the LeBron one, the Zoom generation, I think it was called.

And then he just re-released them in the new version, like the same color way. I like those a lot. That's it. We're done. Yeah, I like the Jason kids back in the day. The pennies were phenomenal. the Jordans of course

The Uings The Weber's his rookie year Wait was Ewing ever with Nike? No but he had Ewing's He had actual Ewing Which were hideous This is about Nike Oh at Nike only

My bad my bad Um We don't want to hear about No second Ray Patrick Ewing sneakers All right Okay That's it Is that that?

All right 14 guests we did it Yeah And longest show ever I mean I think we've approached This number before But definitely up there

if not one number two. All right. Well, I'm sorry that I cut your time short this week. There were just a lot of people. I mean, Al Jo's calling me out. People are calling me out. We do it for them. We don't do it for me to rattle on.

I'm exhausted. I got to tell you, I'm exhausted. I just want to kick back, watch the jazz go up 3-1 tonight. I'll probably make it, you know. Look, they're making it, because of how nice they are, they're making it hard for me to give you guff for this.

Yes. Because of how great they've been to us. What a show. We say goodbye to you. now you reappear. Look, Austin did. Graham Austin. He's trying to expedite your departure.

Bye, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye. There he is. New York, Rick. Thank you very much to him. Thank you very much to everyone in the back. Austin, I'm sure you've been waiting for this. You can hit my music. And how about Kayla Harrison saying that I'm a chatterer?

Wow, that's going to go on my tombstone one day. Ariel Hawani, Chatterer. Could you imagine what was going on in her mind as I'm talking and talking and talking? and she has a premiere to get to. Could you imagine? I mean, really. A heads up would have been nice. A sign, a wink, a head nod, something.

But what a day it has been. We have squeezed them all in. We have talked to them all. There's nothing left to say today. Of course, in a matter of moments, there's going to be a plethora of news. I see JDS. I see all kinds of things going on.

But it's impossible to get to all of it, all right? plenty up on mhmatefighting.com as we speak. For now, we shall say goodbye. Thank you very much to Kevin Lee for stopping by. Congratulations to him. Thank you very much to Chris Wydenman. Get well soon. Thank you very much to Eddie Alvarez.

Good luck to him. Congrats to Al Jermaine Sterling on his big win Saturday night. Thank you very much to Frank Meir. Good luck this Saturday. Also, we look forward to the debut of one Dylan Danis this Saturday as well. Thank you very much. Fyodor Emilianenko. Good luck to him as well.

Thank you very much to Brad Tavares. Is he fighting Israel to Sania next? We shall find out. Thank you very much to Justin Gachi. Thanks for squeezing us in. Congrats to David Branch. Thank you very much to Merab Balichvili. Great to meet him for the first time.

Thank you very much to Tyson Pedro. Good luck to him in June. Thank you very much to Mark Goddard. And thank you very much and good luck to Kayla Harrison. Thank you for stopping by. And of course, thank you very much to Leslie Smith for stopping by as well. Back next week. same time and place.

Until then, I say peace.