MMA Fighting - The MMA Hour with Luke Thomas - Episode 440

Episode Date: July 3, 2018

The Mixed Martial Arts Hour is back in your life. Below is a rundown of Monday's show: 0:00 -- Show open with a look ahead at the big TUF 27 Finale and UFC 226 week. 0:23:18 -- The Monday Morning Analyst with Jimmy Smith recapping Bellator 201 and looking ahead to International Fight Week. 0:46:00 -- Leslie Smith details the latest developments in her case against the UFC before the National Labor Relations Board. 1:06:20 -- Bellator middleweight champion Gegard Mousasi previews his fight with Rory MacDonald, discusses Lyoto Machida signing. 1:24:56 -- James Vick joins us to talk about his new main event slot against Justin Gaethje in August. 1:42:30 -- The Sound Off featuring your calls, tweets and more on the latest in MMA. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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The meeting will begin when passenger Fisher is done celebrating. 19 plus Ontario only. Please play responsibly concerned by your gambling or that if someone close, you call 1-8665-3-3-2-60 or visit comex Ontario.ca. It's the mixed martial arts hour It is Monday July 2nd, 2018, and Caesar is home. Welcome, everyone. My name is Luke Thomas,

and this is the MMA Hour. Thank you so much for joining me here. I appreciate it. On the docket today, quite a show for you. A few news and notes to get to from the weekend, actually some breaking news we're going to get to.

At 1220, he was a Bellator and analyst and commentator. Now he's a UFC analyst and commentator. for the Monday morning analyst Jimmy Smith will be here. After that, she will update us on her legal battles with the UFC related to the National Labor Review Board. Leslie Smith and her attorney Lucas Middlebrook will be here.

At about 105, he is the Belletore middleweight champ. I believe the first champion to be on this show, in my iteration of it, Gagard Musasi will be here as well. We'll talk about his fight with Rory. Some of the things he's been saying about Leota Machita in the press, And then at 125, James Vic will be here. UFC lightweight, of course, he was scheduled to be fighting Paul Felder at UFC Lincoln. And now he'll be taking on Justin Gaichy in that main event.

Plus, after that, we get to the portion of the show where you are my guest, the sound off. Number to call for that sound off, by the way, same as it always is. 844-866-24-68. We're going to put a graphic up? There it is. 844-866-2468. You guys have been leaving your calls, your questions, your bitches, your gripes, and your smart-ass remarks, and we have heard them, and we have selected the best of them. And, of course, the tweets as well.

You can use the hashtag the MMA hour. We will pick the best from those. Thank you guys so much for spending your Monday with me. If you are waking up with me on the West Coast, it is 9 a.m. your time. I really appreciate it. If you are here on the East Coast, here in New York City, specifically where the studios are, I appreciate you spend. with me your lunchtime hour, or really whenever you watch this and wherever you live, are European listeners, or Australian listeners, Scandinavian in particular listeners? I don't know,

I'm just sort of calling out different parts of the world. Thank you guys so much for joining me. He is the aros to my friolis, the ariquipe to my pan. Back in the back is our friend and producer of the show, Mr. Danny Sigourna. Danny, y'all. How are you, my friend? Oh, again. You doing good? Yeah, you're giving me a weird weird stare There you go, look at it to the camera, son That's how a pro does it

Did you have a good weekend? Yeah, it was pretty good weekend That was a quiet weekend There was not a whole lot of MMA There was some funky MMA Which we'll get to here in the show We have some surprises for everybody I can't wait to do this

However, it wasn't that busy So I'm wondering how you spent it Doing anything interesting? Well, I actually moved so Moving in New York City is not too fun So I had to deal with that but I did it a number of times when I lived there's terrible But the World Cup was

It wasn't full force. We had some quality games. So that wasn't bad. I'm in a league myself, so I played on Sunday. We drew against the team, so not bad either. Now, as we look ahead, this is, I'm going to make this point here in just a second, Danny. This is one of the biggest weeks. I don't think this is much of an exaggeration.

By the time this week is over, Danny, I don't know how big it's going to be. However, true or false, this week has the potential by the time Sunday morning rolls around to be one of the most consequential in UFC history, two or false? True. I think it's absolutely true. And not even UFC history, MMA history. Now, I don't know how consequential in the end,

Jake Shields headline the third PFL show in my hometown of Washington, D.C. will be. But if Israel Adasanya can do something magical and push his way up the ranks on Friday, who knows what's going to happen? Rhonda Rousey is going into the Hall of Fame. What is she going to say? What's that going to be about?

Then, of course, you have, as I mentioned, the rest of the ultimate fighter, we'll see what happens with that as well. And then on Saturday, God only knows what's going to happen What is your thoughts on ultimately how big it's going to be? International Fight Weeks always big, but calibrate it for me. This is huge because there's so much, all the matchups mean so much, let's say, you know,

Max Holloway versus Ortega. If Max Holloway wins, that could potentially set itself up for a Conn McGregor fight, who knows down the line if he decides to go up to 155. We know. If he's saying it's a matter of when, not if. Right. Right. So, I mean, if he wins, that's just going to, you know, speed up the whole process.

Right. That fight right there just means a new, new generation of fighters. It means so much for the sport. And then you got D.C. Cormier as well. You got Daniel Cormier Steepin Miochik. That's a huge fight as well. We just talked about on the beat last week. If Daniel Cormier wins and gets the heavyweight title fight,

I mean, all of a sudden, the John Jones, Daniel Cormier, third fight opens up, and that's going to be a huge fight for the UFC. Or, by the way, as Chil Sondin said over the weekend, it's his opinion, but I don't know that it's ill-founded, that if Steepay wins, maybe DC retires. Maybe this is the swan song for somebody like DC. So this weekend is huge. At MMA fighting, we're going to have everybody covered. I mean, we've got a bunch of people going to

Vegas. I'm going to be there. You're not, but that's okay. Nevertheless, nevertheless, we got a ton of work to do. We have PFL on Thursday. Dana-Wise Tuesday Night Contender Series on Tuesday. Hall of Fame this week. The tough finale on Friday. And then again, UFC 226. We're going to sleep less than 10 hours all week. I have No one's crying for us. I understand, but pack a lunch, son. It's about to get busy. Yeah. All right. Before we go, real quickly, tell me, did the calls come in at our hotline [phone]? How were the crop of calls you had to select? And did anyone treat the calls as if they were using the lower half of their body like an amusement park? No comment there, but the calls were interesting. You'll see we got a familiar face showing up.

All right. Somebody you crowned in the first show. And we got your weekly mouth breather as well. So we'll rate that, and you'll let me know how you feel that one, and where do you think that was probably that call took place. Okay. We'll check in back with you probably periodically through the show, but certainly if things go a little tight with the schedule,

I'll see you during the sound off. How's that sound? Sounds good. All right, buddy. Very good. Let me get to some breaking news, if I may. If we can get, here we go. That's the camera I wanted here.

As I mentioned, Jimmy Smith will be here at about 14 minutes or so. Let me get to some breaking news, if I may. Our friends over at ESPN got this scoop, so shouts to them. I think it was Brett Okamoto, yes. Chuck Liddell and Tito Ortiz. This published maybe 30 minutes ago. They're going to rekindle there, as he writes, an infamous rivalry in a trilogy bout later this year

under the Oscar de la Jolla Golden Boy Promotions banner. ESPN has confirmed the story. They have signed promotional agreements an official date and location are being finalized and should be announced soon. My hunch is it won't take place in Las Vegas. It'll be in Southern California. But we'll have to see. That's just merely a hunch.

The paper view will mark Golden Boy's first foray into MMA, although you can recall they had a relationship with affliction to a degree. Remember, there was a moment in time where it was actually promoted as an idea should Golden Boy and Affliction do half boxing, half-MMA cards to each. It never materialized. Of course, we know the story's there, but that actually was floated for a time. This won't be that. I don't think it'll just be all MMA, but I want to sort of make that clear. Of course, this takes place after nearly 12 years from their original bout, UFC 66 in December of 2006. Quote, this is from, yes, Delaware. I am proud to announce that we've signed a deal for the fight between Lidale and Ortiz.

De La Jolla said in a statement to ESPN, this will be huge for sports fans around the world. Ortiz and Lidel are two of the most recognized. fighters in MMA history. They are legends in the sport. Let me, let me open up the show, if I may, with a comment. Now, here's how it works in MMA. If you offer an opinion, somebody gets mad at you in the sport. And the interesting part about it is the people who get mad of you, sometimes they call you up and tell you, but 99% of the times they don't. It's the most passive aggressive industry I've ever been involved with. But I really don't care. What is the point of me coming up here and just lying to you and pretending to do things?

and say things that I don't believe in. There is none with that, so I'm not suggesting anyone else does, but I just know what my responsibilities are. So here's the truth about this. I actually don't care about the fight, but I also don't mind it. In fact, I think fights like this tell us a lot about the state of the industry. There was an interesting report over the weekend. Did you guys see it? Zufa Holdings, I think it's called UFC Holdings LLC, which is now the new sort of well, the new sort of financial holding group post-endever purchase of ZUFA. And they made well in excess of $700 million for 2017.

Now, it's not in total of 2017. Some of the first quarters are shifted, but it would make hardly any difference for the ultimate total. 700 million, which would make it the most profitable year in MMA history. Well, for certainly for the UFC anyway. And what sort of stands out about that to me is that was a year when you would look at general level of enthusiasm about the product, both hardcore and from the casual fan base. And you would never have gotten that inclination. I'll certainly maybe with him. McGregor played a big role in that.

Certainly the UFC streamlining its internal staffing and letting a lot of people go contributed to that. And so I'm not here to say that those numbers are in any way funny. They're probably as real as they are purported to be from the various reports. I'm really saying it's one of those situations where, as one of my friends put it before the show, they burn a ton of positive equity about the brand, but they made a lot of money with the product. There is this increasing shift towards safe, stable monetization away from maybe even riskier behaviors or at least things that risk taking in the service of the fan. Now, what does this have to do with Lidl and Ortiz?

Here's my point about that. The way the UFC has grown, and the reason why they make those figures is, In part, yes, they got a little bit of luck with the Mayweather-Megger fight. But the reality is that they just do a ton of shows and a ton of places and they collect a ton of rights fees from various entities. They make a lot of money by actually doing a little bit more. I'm not sure that's in the interest of the fan. I mean, partly a lot of it is.

Certainly International Fight Week is. Don't misunderstand me. I'm not here to say they don't care at all. That's not the argument that I'm making. But rather, they arrange the product in a certain way to meet certain monetization goals that aren't necessarily in keeping with fan demand. And I think that has opened up a bit of the market on the other side of things. So you're going to say, well, how can Liddell Ortiz be that? Well, it's not exactly a response to a money-making year in the UFC. But in a year where the UFC

has this huge number of shows, they've already announced for 2019, they're not going to be cutting. In fact, they could be growing the number, depending on what they do with fight pass. There's just a certain feeling of stable, potential guard changing when you have the Israel lot of signias coming up in the world, the Robert Whitaker's, the Kelvin Gastilums. We'll see what happens with McKenzie Dern, but the Sean O'Malley's, all these young people pushing out. We'll see what happens when they eventually make their way. But I do think that there is an element of fun and silliness and what's the word even, almost a carnival atmosphere that's been missing. And a lot of people say that in a pejorative sense. And if it was the backbone of the product,

I think it'd be a problem. If the UFC was engaging in this, I think it would be a problem. But if other promoters in the space engage in it, I'm not really sure I understand what the problem is, especially if they go to California. If in fact they go to California, you're talking about the best regulation that is reasonably available. You are under no obligation to purchase this. You are under no obligation to watch. And I think that the growth and stability and the unchanging nature, I mean, yes, things have changed under endeavor, but a lot of things have remained the same. there's not this pairing down the product. It's not these, yes, we've got a supercard coming up,

but generally speaking, there's been this feeling that it's sort of just one card to the next. People going out there and you're going to say, well, De La Jolla is just resurrecting old stars. Yeah, of course. De La Jolla is doing that. But look at some of the enthusiasm that this fight has produced.

Polarizing, yes, for as many people who are saying it's terrible and they don't want to watch it, you're having an equal number who are also saying they can't wait. And I've got to tell you, I've lived the Tito Ortiz experience. You look online, you think, my God, this guy is reviled. And then you go in studio, or rather, in the arenas, and he is the Pope.

People screaming his name, shouting, shouting, teet-o, teet-o. People love him, which you never would get from reading MMA Twitter, right? It's just a totally different, unique world. So if they put this fight in California, and if they have it, and if it's the UFC not really engaging in it,

so they're getting licensure, you don't have to buy it. It's appealing to a certain romanticism. I'm not going to put it on the level of Kimbo versus Dada 5,000. I don't think that comparison is fair, but I think it speaks to the same kind of audience who might watch it. Number one, casual, right? These are big names and we're big names, certainly in the sport. People know who they are.

Seeing this again might stoke some feelings of what the sport might once have been to them. So you're going to get that. Certainly they have, I think, relative to other MMA fighters still a pretty high, Q rating, right? Which is sort of like their mainstream visibility. And I also think that you just sometimes have to embrace the Kearney side of things. You really do.

You have to just at least allow a place for it. The sport was in part built off of it. It remains a consistent presence. It is when that carnival side of things supplants the backbone of the real sport. That's when you get a problem. but that's not a threat here at all. I also think that what De La Jolla is doing is, yes, cravingly trying to compete with the UFC

because he doesn't like the fact that Alvarez versus Triple G1 came after May with the McGregor. All that's true. Yes, it's just De La Jolla trying to make a bunch of money. All that's true. But I also think it speaks to some of the success that Bellator has had. There's been a lot of debate over what role and what value

those sort of senior masters-level fights should play in the organization. And that's a debate that should be ongoing, and it's not all of a sudden all good. But there is clearly a market for this, not merely, I think, inside of the major organizations, but outside on occasion. How much you can build this out to scale, I don't know. But certainly if the names are there, you can do something with it. We shall see how things progress and ultimately how this does. But these passions for these guys who came up in that golden air of MMA, they die hard.

They die hard. And in an era of MMA, where guys kind of all look at the same walking out and it's hard to latch on to a new one. And there's fight after fight after fight after fight after fight and card after card after card, weekend after weekend. It's not that the MMA is bad. MMA in some ways, in my judgment, has really never been better. You cannot watch even regional level of MMA anymore and say the MMA is not as good as it once was. it's, the level of fighting is so high. But there is always going to be a part that feels a little bit unusual.

There's always going to be a part that feels a little bit, maybe even uncomfortable for you. And I'm not, again, I'm not, this is not the military. You're not being drafted to watch this. You don't have to watch any part of this. You can skip it. But I think it is actually, you're going to laugh at this. Some of you are going to laugh at this. I actually feel like it's healthy to an extent, if it's regulated properly, that other promoters in the space want to give an avenue for this portion of the sport.

I've made it very clear. The portion of the sport for me that I am interested in is the elite side. It's the Max Holloways. It's the Brian Ortegas. It's the Cormier's and the stepeys and the Adas and the Adasanias and the Tavares and all of that. That's the side of the sport to me. That's the most interesting. But I think if you just poo-pooing this and saying, this is, again, if it's regulated properly,

but this is gross, this is dumb, who wants to see it? Yo, a lot of people, actually, a lot of people do. And I think it's disingenuous to pretend that this kind of thing isn't interesting to the audiences. Now, there was something that happened over the weekend in a similar vein. It was almost, I won't say the biggest MMA news of the weekend, but perhaps the most fun. And perhaps the most representative of what I'm talking about. Danny, join me here for a second. You have this clip.

Do you not? This was a fight. Let me pull up the details here, if I may. This was a fight from, what was, I don't know what the name of the organization was, but it was Jonathan, Ivy and Travis Fulton. You have seen this clip, have you not? I have. Roll this clip, keep my mic on, please.

I would love to talk this through with the audience. Check this out. We're talking about two Ironmen, guys who just fight to fight. Can we roll the clip, please? Here we are. Look at this. So watch. Jonathan Ivy on the left, going to fake an injury.

chased after him. Right? He's just going to bang on him here. I mean, look at Jonathan Ivy's tattoos. This is, looks like he's lost a number. It looks like he was a consistent contestant on the tattoo show on Spike and just kept getting the guys who got eliminated. Okay, so watch this.

He keeps banging on him, and eventually what happens is he's going to stop here because he just gets tired of it. And he's just going to, watch. He's going to stand up. I mean, having to hammer him. fisting here is just ongoing. He looks over, shakes his head. Come on, Jonathan. Finish the job. Stops, shakes his head, gets up, and taps. All right. Stop the clip. If you don't like this clip, you'll put it back here on the studio. If you don't like this clip, you just don't like

MMA, period. Sorry, I don't know what to tell you. Appreciate, appreciate that, Danny. I, I, this is the kind of thing where you just have to allow a room for. You have to give space to that. That is part of what MMA is. It is at its most elite, the Frankie Edgar footwork, the Joe Zaldo flying knees, the left hand of Connor McGregor, it's all that. Yo, it is that too. It is that carnival shit. It is that what are we looking at? What was that? Who are these characters? You got guys like Travis Fulton. What is his record? I pulled it up here. 153, 54, and 10. This guy is out here fighting like the rest of us maintain a lawn. It is incredible to look at people like this. And I don't know how healthy all this is in the

end of the day and what role commissions should be playing and putting a tighter lid on this. I don't know. But my point being is people want to eradicate that portion of the sport from itself. It's never going to work. Don't bother. Let it breathe. It is a part. It is an outlet. It is an element of the sport that you just have to, you just have to allow. And so I'm not here to put Liddell versus Ortiz, two guys who were some of the best fighters ever on par with that, but certainly they are far past their primes. There's a question of how good the fights can be, how competitive it is. Again, is it even safe for someone like A Lidel given his exit from the sport to be competing? I look to whoever the irrelevant regulatory athletic commission is here in

this case to make those calls and to do their work. I'm simply saying, watch what you want to watch. Don't watch what you don't want to watch. But do not be in a space where you decide that this is MMA or that is MMA. Only the super serious, some of the non-serious, none of that stuff. You have to open up room for both. And that Jonathan Ivy clip, did you guys see the tattoo on his stomach? Fighting solves everything.

I mean, where else do you see characters like this? Never, nowhere. They don't exist. This is the best thing I've ever seen all week. Sure, Rise and Made News. Yeah? With, they got some fights coming out. Those will be great.

Of course, they engage in some of this pageantry and some of this other stuff. So that's partly it. There was Bellator on Friday, which we'll talk about here in just a second when we can find Jimmy Smith. Obviously, we're all looking forward to the great fights this weekend, right?

But looking at what just made the rounds on social media and looking at what the kinds of things were that people were talking about, this seemed to be of the highest priority. All right, 844-866-2468. I believe we are waiting on Jimmy Smith to get this going. We're going to do our Monday morning analyst. Did you guys see Bellator over the weekend? Over the weekend.

Did you guys see that? It was interesting. First of all, here's one thing that just deserves to be noted here quite quickly, if I may, as we get ready to transition into our next segment. Let me pull this up. Do you guys follow what Ed Ruth is doing? Ed Ruth, who is literally, how would I describe it? Maybe one of the 10 best wrestlers in NCAA history, irrespective of weight class.

I mean, we're talking about one of the best, right? One of the best, ever. He is now 6 and 0, okay? He has been fighting, let's see, he fought twice in 2016, twice in 2017, twice in 2018. You wouldn't know it if you were just paying attention to headlines. His name has crept up here or there. But the point being is he has, I think, carved out a nice, not niche exactly. He is building experience quietly while no one is looking.

And I'm loving that. Get time training. He's only 27 years old. Get cage time. Work on your craft. Build the right way. And then maybe now, after six fights, he should start getting some more main card slots. I know he's had a couple, but I just love that this guy is like, yeah, sure, I'll take all of those early prelim fights.

I'll fight in, what was he fighting in Budapest and Italy, right? Good, great. Just let him get the relevant requisite experience that he needs to, when he's ready to turn that corner. You saw what happened to Aaron Pico. No, he has made a roaring comeback, but obviously his debut did not go according to plan. Maybe that was too much pressure from people like me and other various parties. but nevertheless, I just love how Ruth is saying, Spotlight will come, as soon as I'm ready, let me work on my craft.

And he's not out there doing a bunch of media. I'd be after this one, he was calling out some folks, I think for that Welterweight Grand Prix. But nevertheless, I just wanted to make a note. Really, really appreciate the soft pedal that Ed Ruth is applying to the early stages of his career. All right. Now, that was Ed Ruth on the bottom of the card. talk about other stuff as well as what's coming up in the week.

That means we have to go to our first segment of the show. It's time for the Monday morning analyst. All right. Joining us now through Skype, I believe. He was a Bellator analyst and commentator. Now he is a UFC analyst and commentator, one of the very best that does it. The one and only Jimmy Smith, I believe, is here. There he is.

Boy, in Crisp HD at 9 a.m. How you doing, Jimmy? I'm here, man. How you doing, buddy? I'm doing quite well. Jimmy, by the way, what is your responsibilities for international fight? week. I'm doing the tough finale, man. That's what I'm doing Friday. So that's my gig next week, man. What are you doing on Saturday night? Like, in other words, where are you going to be?

I got a vacation with my family that weekend. So I'm literally doing the tough finale, and then I am gone. I'm out immediately. So I can't stick around for any of the stuff. So, yeah, my only gig is the ultimate fighter finale. All right. We'll get to that just a minute. Let's backtrack a little bit. I saw that you were at the Bellator show over the weekend. How was it being back? It was fun, man. It was really to see all the guys. I mean, working at Bell Tour is great. Great people, great producers and everything. And they were finally doing a show on Southern California where I didn't have a gig.

So I went down and said hi to everybody. And I actually got to see it from the production truck, which I never got a chance to do while I was working. So that was cool. And just meeting everybody and seeing everybody. That was really cool. Saw Limae after she won. She's fantastic. And it was great seeing all those guys again.

Yeah. And by the way, there are scenes of that from our own E.K.C. Leiden or Leiden, I can never pronounce his last name correctly. He did a big video about it. It's on the site, so if you want to check that out, you may. All right, so Jimmy, let's talk about her. Elima Lea McFarland defeating Alejandro Lara submission via Arm bar 355 of round three. You know what? It's so interesting about Elam Leigh. She's only, what, eight, nine fights into her career. She seems to be getting rapidly better, but more than that, she just has a ton of personality. I'm wondering as someone who knows her a little bit, she has a bigger personality that I think than a lot of folks realize,

and you can begin to see it with each evolving fight. She gets it. I mean, that's what we say in this business is, man, Elimelaide totally gets it. Not only does she have the look, she has the skills, but she's so engaging. You know, she's really into Native rights. She's really into a lot of issues that really connect with the fans.

She always, when she was in Temecula, she came out with a native dancer. She really does it up on the way, and she just really does a great job connecting with fans. And once you have that and you have the skills to finish, and, you know, you have the look that she has. She's got it all. She's fantastic.

All right. So let's talk about that finish itself. I thought for sure Laura was a goner, even on the first arm bar attempt. And she just couldn't. Credit to Laura for being tough. But I'm wondering what you saw there. You have, to me, and someone like with McFarland, an incredible all-around grappling talent, correct?

Yeah, yeah. I mean, her submission game is fantastic. Need to work a little bit on a takedown game. She went for a couple throws. that didn't work out early, you know, these big commitment kind of throws that that didn't work out. But once she's on the ground and she gets her submission game going, she's absolutely fantastic. And she knew going into that fight, Laura's really flexible, really long arms and legs, you know, it's going to be hard to, it's going to be hard to submit her.

And I thought she was going to have to, you know, go for broke and, you know, actually really, really go for it to get the submission, which is exactly what she did. And when I was watching in the truck, she had the arm bar, but her hips were just a little bit off to the side. and I turn to my producer and go, she's got to turn her hips to the left and get underneath. You know, I can't help but, you know,

commentate the fight as I'm watching it with people. And I said, she's got to turn it. And as soon as she got her hips underneath to the left, that was it. It was done. It's fantastic. Okay.

Here's sort of where I'm at with this one on her. You mentioned about the takedowns. Why is it that the takedowns on the women's side are not quite as good as the men's. And let me be clear about this. I'm not trying to disparage the women's side. I'm merely saying, number one,

you have more men who have matriculated from the wrestling side. so I think that's a big portion of it. But the best practices are really the same, and the men kind of train with the women. I'm wondering, am I misunderstanding the issue here? Why is it, do you think there's a bit of a gap in terms of the technical acumen related to that particular part of the game?

Did you see, it was the NCAA finals in wrestling two or three years ago, I forget when, and they did a montage before the beginning of the actual matches and said, and ask all the wrestlers, when did you start? and guys it was guys like logan steber Isaiah Martinez you know guys on world teams now and they all went like five

like I really got into now you know I really started taking it seriously six I really wanted to be a world champion at seven the level I mean when I was in high school there wasn't women didn't wrestle it just there were no women's wrestling teams you know it just didn't happen it's only really gotten big in the last couple years these guys that have takedowns that are really phenomenal have been doing it since they were little kids and there's a tradition that goes back 100 years in this country where it's a really big deal.

And women's wrestling has gotten big in the last few years, but the tradition isn't there. When you talk to a lot of the female wrestlers that have come up through that, they started in high school. They started, oh, I started in junior high, I got into high school, I won a sport. And, you know, I became a state qualifier starting like, you know, my sophomore year in high school. With men, that doesn't happen. You can't really be competitive on the national and international level. You didn't start when you're five or six. So we're just used to seeing a much higher level.

Most fans don't realize how long, when you see a high level wrestler wrestling, how long they've been doing it. And so when we look at a women's fighting with, oh, their takedown's not as good. The guys that are good have been doing it 20, 30 years. And so women's wrestling hasn't caught up to that level yet. And so the comparison just isn't there. We're looking at a level, I think, with men.

that we don't appreciate how high it is. And so we see other ones, oh, they're not quite as good. It's decades to get that good. So that makes me wonder. Yeah, I think that's a fair point. And I also makes me appreciate St. Pierre more. And even Joseo, I don't know how good Jose Al doze

Aldo's takedowns were, but his version of MMA's referee position where he's breaking the hands, leaning back and then turning. Yeah. Like, he's doing that to guys, to your point, that have been wrestling for decades. It's freakish. I mean, I remember when GSP fought Koshack

and Kasha goes, he can't take me down. I've been wrestling since I was five. We all saw how that fight went. I mean, GSP's ability, in terms of the MMA takedown is really, really incredible and not just, and what you've got to remember is, you know, there are turns, there's all kind of stuff in wrestling that don't really apply to MMA,

that MMA fighters just really pretty much have to worry about the takedown, the takedown defense. All right, so let's get into this weekend. Let's talk about that main event. Israel Adasania is the fight that you're calling versus Brad Tavares. Israel Adesania, I mean, you can't say enough good things about him, but he seems, he handles all the questions well,

but he clearly doesn't want the UFC, in his own words, he put it, to baby him. But then I just talked about Ed Ruth. And Ed Ruth's still a little bit earlier in his career. He's matriculating from another sport. But he's, I'm not saying, I'm not trying to use the word baby in a pejorative sense, but he's clearly taking the soft approach to the beginning of his career. What is the right approach for a fighter? And is Adasana, you're ready for a guy who is battle tested in Brad Tavares? One thing about this fight, Israel Adasana versus Brad Tavares, every fan and pundit and expert that I talked to kind of did the eyebrow raise when they heard about this fight. They went, man, Brad Tavars is tough. Are you sure Israel-A-San is ready for that in his third UFC fight? And also, if you really study tape, which I've had to do for the last couple weeks on Brad Tavares, he's tough to look good against.

Even if, you know, you're doing all right, you have a couple of good rounds. He's just so solid. His hands are so high. He's stocky. He's short. He's strong. Doesn't take a lot of big risks. It's hard for somebody like Israel, out of science who can look so explosive and good to look that good against Brad Tavares.

It's a tough stylistic matchup for him. As far as how you groom a guy, there's a little bit less of that in the UFC. It's just, you know, one thing is about Bellator is they've invested a lot and a lot of young talent like Ed Ruth, like Aaron Pico, the problem with that is those first six or seven fights that you would normally have at some local promotion that might be a mismatch, and nobody cares, happen under the bright lights in a big promotion. So they're brought up and raised up under bright lights. So a lot of their first few fights are, you know, they have to be groomed a little bit,

that they're investing in them early. They can't let them, you know, stumble in their first five or six fights. We saw what happened with Eric Pico and Zach Freeman. You know, it's, we know what happens. We take on an experienced guy. So there's a little bit less of that in the UFC. I saw it a lot more in Belvoir. Even Israel, Asana, when he came in the UFC,

he had a backlog of fights. He had, you know, beat Melvin Gilar, UFC veteran for that, absolutely destroyed him. So he had a little bit more background than Ed Ruth. But I see a lot more of that cultivating going on in Belator. And then it also reminds me of someone like Dylan Danis. People were like, oh, he took a couple punches in his first fight.

I'm like, have you guys seen people's first fight? before, that's about as good as it gets. He looked exactly as I thought he would. Yeah, well, that's, you know, that's the issue. Once again, we're seeing career developments that usually take place in obscurity. You know, I always tell fighters, the best time to lose is when nobody's watching and when nobody cares. In your first five or six fights, you're fighting at a local show and making a couple hundred

bucks, you can go four and two in your first six fights because you're building up. It's not a big deal. Um, at the end of your crew, when you already have a name established and, you know, you're a Ken Shamrock or something like that, you can lose and every, you're already established. It doesn't really make any difference. Nobody cares. Um, they don't get that luxury. When you start in, you're, you're, you're coming in as a hot prospect, you know, in Bellator and it's your first five or six fights. You're under the bright lights under scrutiny immediately. So everything gets, gets analyzed, everything. You don't get that grace period, you know? Certainly don't. And he didn't either, although I thought he performed quite ably, given the circumstances. So this takes us to Saturday when you are going to be not doing your job out there, gallivanting around the globe. It's not my show. I would have done it. Let's talk about D.C. versus Stipia.

We had Dan Hardy on the show last week. He thinks D.C. has an uphill climb. Look, I agree that D.C. has an uphill climb, but I'd like to stunt for him. I went back and I looked at all of, and I'm, trust me, I'm not saying that Josh Barnett is Stipe, Miocchich. I don't mean that as in a pejorative sense, but they're just not the same fighter. They're not the same size. There's a lot of differences.

But I went back and I looked at the predictions before Cormier versus Barnett. And there were some people picking Cormier, but a lot of people thought, you know what, he's a true heavy weight, he's going to lean on him, he'll find a way. It just sort of routinely didn't take into account the athletic gifts of somebody like Cormier. I realize he's 39, but do you share my sense that, yes, maybe he has an uphill climb against Dipe, but I just don't feel like people are taking into account what he can do, particularly on the speed side of things. And that, I think, is a good thing for him. I think it's good to go in as the underdog. It's good to go in under the radar. It's good to go in as the guy where everybody's looking to champion and everybody's looking at

steep. So I think psychologically, that's a great place for DC to be is kind of overlooked a little bit. I think he has a great chance in his fight. The one difference is steepie has wrestled at a higher level than most of the heavyweight opponents that DC could have faced. He doesn't have, he's not going to have that take down necessarily in his back pocket whenever he needs it. It's not going to be a Volcano Os Demer kind of situation. where it's like, look, I'm going to go to this takedown.

I know I'm going to get it if I needed. It's not always going to be there against Depey because Steepe does have an excellent takedown offense in his own right, did wrestle at a high level, obviously not at D.C.'s level, but, you know, he's had that wrestling background. So I think D.C. is going to have to be a little more judicious as to when he goes for that taketown. His timing has to be a little bit better. He has to work a little harder.

He can't just dive in against someone who doesn't have that experience. Do you think it's going to look a little Kane Velazquez-ish? And here's what I mean by that. You go back to Velazquez against the Dos Santos. He'd fire the underhook against the fence and just kind of pull, push, begin to wear on him physically, lean on him. I realize he, there was a little bit closer in size between the two relative to DC and steepate. But still, just the weight, you know, DC knows how to manipulate his weight.

And then also kind of just bang on him on the other side where you're pulling and pushing on the underhook and then you're firing the punch on the other side. And two or three rounds of that, man, they're a different fighter afterwards. Do you think we might see some of that? 100%. I definitely think we will. I think DC is going to be either bullying against the fence, landing short punches, or on the outside going for that quick takedown. His level change is very, very fast. But, you know, it's, it's, there's, I always say there's no bad build for combat sports. Do you use the build that you have? And DC's athletic, very, very quick for a size. We haven't seen

that slowdown in his late 30s. We've seen a lot of fighters. So, you know, it's, he has all the physical tools. he has all the tactical tools. It's a matter of wearing steepy down, like you said, against the fence, kind of making him smaller as the fight goes on, not taking huge risks and getting underneath going for a takedown. He cannot do that. He can't be in that sprawling brawl position where he's underneath against Steepie who hits like he stole something from it.

Real, real heavyweight power. So let's talk about Stepe very quickly. What is his essential rules of the road here? Is it sticking behind the jab, good footwork, staying off that fence? Because it seems to me if he can work behind that, I'm not sure there's a man alive who can beat him. The question is, of course, can he do it?

But if that's working for him, I agree. I don't care who you are. You're going to have a real tough time with him. Yeah, and finding the placement for that right hand. I mean, D.C. knocked out for the first time in his career against John Jones, the last couple of fights. So that memory still might be in there. You want to get him overreacting to big punches.

You want to hurt him and let him know, I'm the heavyweight punch you're in here. You've never been in there with a striker like me. You can really turn one over. And talk about the psychological. logical edge. I mean, the problem with Steepi is he's in a position where he's chasing history. Right now, he's amongst the greatest heavyweights in MMA history. He's one or two, in my opinion. And so he's chasing a great legacy, but we were just talking about the kind of the relative opinion of people. He kind of has to look great, I think, because a lot of people are always taking on a light

heavyweight. D.C.'s moving up. He might be in a position where he feels he needs to really overperform. If you can stay away from that and not let that mental pressure get to him, I think he has all the tools to win the fight. And then last, but certainly not least, Max Holloway taken on Brian Ortega. I have to be honest, the stakes of the main event are bigger, and it's a fantastic fight in every way you could ask for one. But if I can just speak to my own personal biases, and I don't ask anyone else to follow, but I just speak to what I am looking forward to the most, it's got to be that one. But here's the question. I am a big believer in the abilities of Max Holloway. I make that no secret. But I want to say, I want to say,

to make sure I am not sleeping on Brian Ortega. So tell me, Jimmy Smith, what are the talents that Brian Ortega possesses that can, if he implements them correctly, give Max Holloway some real trouble on Saturday night? Max Holloway has a tendency to step forward in brawl. He tends to like fight Hawaiian, like let's meet in the middle and throw punches and see who goes down first. Against Jose Aldo, I think, was a little bit past his prime at the time he could win those kinds of battles. He could win those kinds of exchanges. Brian Ortega, when he hits, he can flatten anybody. He's a giant for this weight class.

He really sits down on his big punches. Now, Frankie Edgar found out how hard he can hit. That's a big difference. I think he has more one-shot power than Jose Alge did the two times Max Holloway fought him. Max Holloway is used to stepping forward and trading punches and being the guy who could walk out and kind of out-volume his opponent. I don't think he can do that against Brian Ortega. I think he needs to change his strategy a little bit. you know, punches in punches and move out, angle a little bit,

frustrate the fighter who hasn't been through the kind of rounds. He has been through. That's his ace in the holes. I've been through a lot of five-round fights. I'm the champion. I know what it's like to swim in deep water. You don't. So I think rather than the, you know, step in the center of the octagon and bang kind of strategy,

he needs to drag Ortega into a long, difficult fight. He's not that used to. I think he needs to change tactics in this fight. Let me play devil's advocate if I may. That's my breakdown. Boom. And I'm done. And he just walk off and hang up now.

No, no, I, that was certainly my thought as well. I was like, if he can just sort of moderate the offense and then the longer that goes, it works to his benefit. But then you look at Brian Ortega, the guy's got what, a gazillion third round submissions. I'm not saying he progresses in that sort of linear way that Holloway does over time. But it's not like he's not dangerous late either. How do you mitigate that if you're Max Holloway? man you got to stay out of those tough positions i mean i think i think his ace in the hole is really

his submission game brian rtega has fantastic submission especially gets in dominant position so you want to stay tactically very very sharp and not end up in those bad situations end the third round fourth round where you know it's a start of the fourth he still has plenty of time to work and you're running out of gas he has to be very very careful when it comes to the positional game the takedown game striking wise brian ronorentegga hits hard but max hollway has more experience in long stand-up battles. And I think that's where his advantage is going to be. He cannot get mounted early fourth round, early fifth round, positions like that.

He needs to stay out of. Any other fight on that card? I mean, this card on Saturday is like just bananas. So I'll ask you to narrow it down. Any other, oh, you know what? No, I'm not going to do that. I'm going to ask you about this. Felder taken on Perry.

Felder taken on Perry. Felder is certainly the more polished of the two. But I've talked to him a number of times. he's like, yeah, the game plan was not to do what I did. And I went ahead and won anyway, but it was definitely not that. A guy like Mike Perry, who's naturally bigger anyway, because it's going to be at 170, he could probably draw him into that. What are you making of this Felder versus Perry matchup at the last second?

Man, that's a tough one because the one good news is you don't have to, in my opinion, Mike Perry is not a guy where it's like, that's late. I have to totally change my game plan. You know what kind of fight Mike Perry is going to bring to you. But Felder, to your point, can get. drawn into those kind of brawls. That's exactly how he likes to fight. Where Paul Felder is best, on top, ground and pound, short elbows. Once he's on top of you, man, that guy is vicious. He's absolutely vicious. And that's going to be his key to victory is anytime there's a brawl,

anytime we're throwing punches and the crowd's going crazy, that's when he's got to be looking for his take down. Whether he's winning the brawl or not, he's got to win this fight on top. Mike Perry is a very, very hard hitter. He's big at 170 pounds. Paul Feltter does not want to trade punches with this guy. He'll get drawn into that kind of brawl, but he has to use that as an opportunity to get his takedown going, get his ground and pound going, wear him down, cut him up, bloody him up, but do it on the ground where Paul Felder's on top. That's where he needs to be. There was a rash of retirements last week. One of them was your colleague on that Fox Sports desk with Rashad Evans. I think I speak for many when I say I was glad to see it because he has done

so much in the sport. There's nothing left to prove. But it was more than that, Felipe Aranches at age 30 retired, Josh Kosteck on my radio show retired. And then Johnny Hendon, on MMA junkie retired. Any thoughts about the spate of retirements? It does seem coincidental, but nevertheless, I'm wondering what you made of them. Well, I think the timing on all of them is good. I mean, there weren't many where I went, oh, my God, I can't believe it. I mean, these guys had accomplished what they needed to accomplish in the sport.

They were on the downside of their skills. That's the time to get out. I mean, Kostchik announced it recently, but for a long time, it's, well, you know, he's had one fight in, what, three or four years? I mean, his body just isn't capable of keeping up the sport. anymore. I think it's a good thing personally. I don't like seeing fighters hang out past their prime. I don't like seeing a fighter take more damage and he absolutely has to risk career. So I was happy about all of those retirements. All right. So you're off to vacation on Saturday. Any other fight this

week you're looking forward to? Any last one? I'm looking forward to a ton of them because I have had to study like you would not believe. Hold on. Let me ask you. Let me follow up if I may. Tell folks what your work method is. How do you study? Do you just get on Fight Pass and go, I'm just going to watch fights for an hour? What is it, what is your methodology? I've actually been really curious to know. All right. So what I do is the UFC sends out these biosheets of the fighter. So in one corner, so I download all the biosheets. And in one corner on my computer, all these biosheets. So I click on a bioseat and the iPad on which I am speaking to you, I write down fights, the manner of the finish, and then I put whatever little thing strikes me most. Tends to win by this,

tends to win in the first round, whatever's on the record. Then I literally sit there and I watched fights all friggin' day and make my notes. So on my iPad are all my notes for every single fight. Both fighters are happening together. And yeah, I basically jot down notes for all day. So, you know, standard cars 12 fights is 24 fighters. You spend an hour a day that's a full day of study. So you bring like a big...

I do way more than that, way more than an hour. So but you bring like a big notebook to the fight. And so at each fight, you flip the page and there's all your notes and the finishes and everything? Everything's electronic. I put everything on this iPad, on which I'm speaking to you. Everything's on the, like John Anick has like a notebook and all these cards and all this stuff. I don't do paper anymore because it just becomes too much of a headache. So I keep everything.

My iPad's always in front of me. And underneath that are all the UFC notes that they give me. And I just kind of reference those when I absolutely need them. But everything's electronic. Everything's right here so I can kind of scroll around and see everything I need. Yeah. Was this that ratty-ass iPad you brought to my one radio show? Do you remember that?

Just the case is ratty, by the way. So, yeah, the ratty-ass iPad case that has been destroyed because I constantly destroy the stupid thing. Yeah, I got a new case, but the iPad's still the same, man. All right. Well, you know what? Your analysis is about as good as it gets, Jimmy. I really, really, really appreciate you being on. I cannot wait to hear the call.

I'll actually be there on Friday to cover the fights in person as well. You're truly, I cannot tell how great it is to see your career thrive in the way that it has. And thank you, I know, for getting up and spending some time. time with me, man. I really, really appreciate it. Have fun with a call on Friday. I will. Give me a call on Friday when you're in town, all right, brother? I will. Okay. Thank you so much, Jimmy. We go from one Smith, which camera are we on, this one? We go from one Smith to another. Just bang, back to back. Joining us now, I believe on Skype is Leslie Smith, and I believe we have her attorney on the phone with Lucas Middlebrook. Is that right? Yes, I believe it is. Hi, Leslie. How are you?

I'm great. How are you? I'm doing quite well. And Lucas, you're there via phone, correct? Yes, sir. All right. Leslie, let me go to you first. First of all, how are you doing? Nice to see you. Oh, man, I'm awesome. I had the best Friday ever. It was everything I could have hoped. All right. Ooh, we've got to turn his sound down. There we go. Okay, let me go to you first, Leslie, if I may. So I hear from you, can we turn him down in the back, please? There we go. Thank you. All right. Let me go to you first. I apologize. I saw that you were jubilant on Friday. So for folks who don't know the situation, you, of course, were scheduled to fight a UFC Atlantic City.

That all fell through. You were released and you believed that their behavior there was related to your potential organizing activities around Project Spearhead. You took that complaint, as I understand it, to the NLRB, the National Labor Review Board, and they found what, Leslie? They found that my claims had merit. That's the only thing that they're doing in this first place is deciding whether or not my claims have merit and they're worth the National Labor Relations Board prosecuting filing charges against the UFC. So that was the first thing. Lucas called me on Friday morning saying that indeed the National Labor, the NLRB had found that my claims had merit that they think that not only, was I retaliated against by the, or that my claim that I was retaliated against by the UFC

for organizing is legit, but they also think that we're statutory employees. That's the first federal office to agree so far on this journey. So it's two claims that they essentially weighed in on. One, they weighed in on whether or not your judgment, well, their judgment rather, whether or not you were discriminated against related to these particular issues. and then also, independent of that, they found that you're a statutory employee. Is that it?

Indeed. The reason that they found that we're employees is because the National Labor Relations Board is set up to enforce the National Labor Relations Act. And the National Labor Relations Act is to protect employees. And so they couldn't have made a ruling on me being discriminated against unless they decided that I was indeed a statutory employee. And that was the whole point of Project Spearhead in the first place was to establish whether or not we are actually employees or independent contractors. So in order to answer the claim about me getting retaliated against, they had to deal with the very first issue that we were invested in anyway. Now, Lucas, if I can, I'll go to you. Thank you for joining me. I really appreciate it.

Sorry about the sound issues. They were just blowing my ear drums out here in these headphones of mine. Let me go to you, if I may, on this clarification. When they say they found merit for the claim that Leslie was discriminated against, did they put this in writing? And if so, what did they say? No, it is not in writing. I received a call from Region 4, which is where Leslie's charge is pending.

It's located in Philadelphia. It's the region that has jurisdiction over Atlantic City, which is where her fight was. I received a call from Region 4 early Friday saying that they had made a merit determination in Leslie's favor. And as Leslie just explained, the merit determination touched on two points. There was merit that Leslie and other similarly situated fires were employees under the NLRA and not independent contractors. Therefore, the act has applicability. And the second merit determination was that there was enough evidence presented that the releasing of Leslie was for retaliatory purposes, which is illegal under the National Labor Relations Act. And what a merit determination means is that the reason.

the federal government has decided that Leslie in this instance produced enough evidence to back up her claim, and therefore the region, absent settlement, which they said they would give about a month, would be filing a complaint against the UFC based on Leslie's charge. And at that point, the NLRV region actually serves as a prosecutor almost, and they prosecute the complaint against the UFC. So there was nothing in writing, and that's typical when you're first informed that they've made a merit determination. Okay, so let me get a clarification. When you say that they're going to file a complaint, what is the nature of that complaint?

Is it binding for some kind of law to be changed? Ultimately, what is the upshot once the complaint is filed in the real world? Sure. What happens is the NLRB files a complaint almost similar to a complaint that would be filed in a civil action, except it's filed in front of an administrative law judge. So they file a complaint at spaining the NLRB. It's served on the UFC. The UFC gets a chance to answer, put forward any affirmative defenses that they believe apply,

which one would be independent contractor, because remember, the burden is on the employer here, the UFC, to prove that these fighters are independent contractors and not statutory employees. So the burden is actually not on Leslie approved that. It would be on the UFC. So they would make those affirmative defenses. There would be a small discovery period, period, where you can request documents from each side, similar to a court proceeding. And then eventually the case would proceed to an administrative law judge, and there would be a hearing held in Philadelphia at the region four offices. And then after the hearing, the judge would ask for post-hearing written briefs.

And then the administrative law judge would rule on the questions in front of him or her, which would be the employee versus independent contractor and whether or not Leslie was retaliated. And once that judge issues a decision, that is now NLRB case law, and the parties are free to appeal that decision to the full board if either party so wishes. One more question with Lucas. I'll get back to you, Leslie, in just a minute. But Lucas, what is the timeline for that? If all that proceeds, as you had discussed, what are we looking at in terms of a horizon?

It's a more expeditious process than a civil action in either state or federal court. Obviously, it's a little bit of a complicated matter. So I would envision if that proceeded per the timeline that we heard Friday morning, that we could potentially be in a hearing by the end of this year. Oh, okay. Relatively quickly, I'll go back to you here, Leslie, to discuss this. You know, it's interesting. when you were a part of the UFC, you made clear Project Spearhead was not against them.

It was merely to be at an equitable sort of part of the table with them, right? Let's share the power and then we'll all work together. But it seems to me, and it correct me if I'm misunderstanding it, this new effort is related to merely what happened in Atlantic City, whereas Project Spearhead is about sort of the equality for everyone and to work together, you do now have a grievance against them. So it's a bit of a competing or not quite unified interests, right? You know, it's interesting. I can see how it looked like that. But Project Spearhead was actually started to spearhead the process of organizing the fighters. It wasn't meant to be adversarial or antagonistic at all. The idea was that we were having a hard time deciding or setting something up that all the fighters could get behind because there is so much confusion about should we be a union or should we be an organization because everyone agrees that, yes, We do need the fighters to come together so we can have a say in things other than just voicing similar opinions on Twitter.

So Project Spearhead, the whole goal of Project Spearhead was to find out if we were employees or independent contractors by collecting authorization cards. And we were going to collect about 200 of those and submit them to the National Labor Relations Board as a showing of interest. And then they would decide if we were independent contracts. or employees based on our situation. So when the UFC took the steps to release me, it actually just sped up the timeline for everything.

And we already have a federal office agreeing that we're statutory employees, whereas before, I would have needed to get all of the cards in the first place just to get a federal office to chime in and give their opinion. I see. So even if you had gotten all those authorization cards that you need, you could have collected them, dropped them off in Philly or wherever, whatever one of the offices was.

And they could have said, yeah, no, there's nothing here. They could have done that. There was a possibility. It could have happened. They could have said, no, we don't think that you qualify as employees, and you guys just need to do your own thing. All right, so that takes me back to Project Spearhead for just a second, if I may. You guys are out there really promoting this cause.

I've had you on my show a number of times. We talked about it at length. I think it's the right thing. Nevertheless, how is the effort going? One wonders, is this new effort with the grievance claim a consequence of some kind of... Are you pursuing that because things with Project Spearhead are not going well, or they're just going along fine? And this is a new track to also pursue your ends.

Well, I've actually gotten some fighter support. But the cards have, I feel like the reason that we needed to file was because the UFC cutting me, the way that they did and how vocal I've been about fighters' rights was that it effectively silenced all the conversation about fighter rights and about bringing the fighters together and about unionizing. And it created a climate of fear. People didn't want to talk about it. They didn't want to be promoting it. They were worried that they were going to get cut as well. And so this step with filing with the NLRB, one of the options could have been, that they could have done injunctive relief where they would have reinstated me in the UFC

in the idea that it would prove to the other fighters that they don't have to be scared of getting retaliated against if they stand up for fighters trying to organize. So they haven't chosen to do that. But these are all the steps that we needed to do in order to get the fighters back in a place where they understand that they can do this without really. risking their job. The Project Spearhead is totally confidential. We're still going to need those cards to get signed and it's completely confidential. Not a single person except for the ones who have spoken of it on their own have been outed. Nobody knows who else has signed the cards

except for the people who have said, hey, I'm all about Project Spearhead. So that's totally confidential, but it's still an issue that fighters feel confident and secure in supporting it. What do you have, what do you now more hopeful about as a successful end for this, that this case will move through Philly and ultimately the various parties will rule in your favor, or that the process you had started with Project Spearhead will see itself through? Well, see, that's interesting, because there's a couple different ways that this could go. one of them is the UFC has the option to offer a settlement within the next month. And that could be interesting to see. Maybe as part of it, they're going to change some of their policies. Maybe they're

going to say this is a big threat to our business model and we need to treat them like independent contractors and then the fighters are going to get back all the freedoms that they had as independent contractors before the supervision of USADA. I mean, and I'm not against drug testing. I think it's an important thing, but I also think it's a very important thing that the fighters get a chance to weigh in on it. Same thing with the weight cuts, but like the uniforms, there's just some different things that make us employees instead of independent contractors. So maybe the UFC is going to want to change those things so they can hold on to their business model the way that it is. Or maybe we're going to go ahead and all these steps are going to go through and the NLRB with this case

is going to, it's just going to keep on going and we're going to get affirmed each time with our stance. And then we're going to get the card signed with Project Spearhead and then we'll unionize and then we'll be able to sit down and collectively bargain for everything that the fighters deserve as employees. So it's kind of hard to say right now. And it's actually not even up to me. The whole point of everything is to do what's best for the fighters. And the only way to do its best for the fighters is to ask them because they're the ones that know. So these steps are going right now and then the next time that there's an option to go different directions in this path, then I'm going to reach out to all the fighters and say,

what do you guys think and what do you guys want? Because I'm not doing this for me. I'm not even in the UFC anymore. I'm doing this to advance the position of fighters. I'll get back to Lucas in one second because I know there's been an update to this case and I want to get him to weigh in on it. But a lot of folks are saying, okay, we understand why you're involved in this, but you don't even, I mean, you do have a skin of the game because you are a fighter and you care, but you're not in the UFC. So for let's just go ahead and answer them whether or not they deserve to be, folks might be saying, well, she's just trying to get back in the UFC.

She's trying to find a way to get involved again. Your modus operandi here is what? Why are you still so heavily involved in something where ultimately the outcome has directly anyway, very little impact on you? This is something that I feel very strongly about. You see all these people, my sister was just out protesting ice, protesting all the kids being separated from their parents. Just because something isn't happening to me doesn't mean that it doesn't strongly affect me. And that's what we need to do. A lot of us are in different positions.

Some of us are more privileged than others. And we need to use our positions not to make ourselves more comfortable necessarily, but to react to things around us with compassion and do what we think is right. The more education, the more knowledge. They say knowledge is power. and the more power that you have, then the more that you need to use that, or not you, but, you know, people in general. And so I feel like I'm in a position

and I see a path for creating a better future for fighters. And I'm on a mission. That's what I want to do. Modern day, Rosie the Riveter. Lucas, if I can go back to you for just a second, you have, I think, been on Twitter and you have talked about us, and I believe it was reported by our own Marker Monday

here at MMA Fighting. So you got the good news from Philly, but there's been one slight complication to the development in this case. What is that? Sure. So I mentioned previously that I received a call from Region 4 early in the morning of Friday, and literally less than 24 hours, it was late Friday. I received a call from Region 4 saying, hold on a minute. The Division of Advice in Washington, D.C. is demanding that the case first be sent through it prior to,

a determination being made. And my first opinion of this was this smacked of political string polling because the UFC was either shocked or unhappy with the determination that Region 4 had made. And so now it will be sent through some bureaucratic red tape sent to D.C. And my experience with advice, I dealt with advice on a charge against a major sports league in 2010. 10, and it delays the process. It goes down to D.C. and the individuals at advice review the case essentially from what the investigator in D.C. had put together.

So I really believe this was a political game playing and simply just a delay tactic. And we're going to put in a FOIA request for any and all correspondence with division's advice as to how this decision came to be. And I'm not going to rule out finally a complaint with the officer of an inspector. General as well, just to make sure that there was no, there was nothing unsavory behind the scenes. And this case is judged only on its merits and nothing else. Is there any way for the audience, the layperson, to understand, is this a significant obstacle, a partial obstacle? How big a deal is this?

It's not as giant of a deal as if someone had ruled against us. And we're still, you know, Leslie is still in the driver's seat. Region 4 has made its merit determination. Their autonomy is being usurped a little. But like I said earlier, to me, it's a delay tactic. So it is going to wait time and it's going to push a final determination potentially months down the road before a complaint now will ever be issued by the NLRB. And so it's frustrating, obviously, but to me it's delay and nothing more. That takes me back to you, Ms. Smith. So what is your fighting future? You have been out here fighting for fighter rights and being a very vocal and prominent more so really than anyone else in the space.

But what about you returning to the cage? And I wonder, have all of your efforts at getting fighters to see at the table, has it soured other and other promoters from potentially offering you a contract? I sure hope not. I think that my fighting pedigree speaks for itself. And I think that my ability to come out and entertain and put on a great show for any fight that I've been a part of should make people want. to have me a whole lot. I just had an awesome weekend. I told you that Friday was the best day ever.

It was because I woke up in the morning with this news. Lucas was calling me about this news. And then in the evening, I got to watch my teammate, Carrie Melendez, win her second pro fight at Bellator. I don't know if you got a chance to watch it, but it was awesome. She dropped her with a straight right, and then she got a rear naked choke on her. It was really cool. And I spent the whole weekend being out there with Bellator and watching all of this and seeing the way that they operate. And it was really nice to see that they operate. I'm going to work on trying to speak to Scott Coker and see if I can get something going on over there. I just like the way that they have a nice family field. They let the fighters do their own sponsorships, which is a lot more money

for the fighters. And I want to fight again. I feel like I'm in the prime of my career. I feel like My last couple of fights have been the best fights that I've ever had in training. I'm understanding more than I ever have. I feel like I got over a hump in my development as a fighter, and I would really like to get the chance to go back out there and show it. I don't want to compromise my position with the fighter's rights thing, but I don't think that anything that I could do at this point would compromise that. Before we go, if folks want more information about this case and what you're up to,

What's the best place to get that? Two great places. One, if you want Project Spearhead, following Project Spearhead on Twitter, and Lucas Middlebrook on Twitter, they give great information all the time. I give a lot of information, and I also give information about my fighting career. So following me is an option, too. All right. Well, there you have it.

Lucas, thank you for your time today and your great advocacy as well as you, Leslie. I really appreciate you talking. with us and spending some time with us here in the MMA hour, and we'll be following this case and the push for Project Spearhead, and we wish you nothing but the best of luck. Thank you so much today. Thank you. Thanks, Luke. All right. So we go from this, well, we had two Smiths on. Now we have to go to, well, not a Smith. I have a terrible setup for this. I don't know what else to say. Joining us now, I believe he is going to be the first champion on this iteration of the show, which we are honored to have. He'll be facing Roy McDonald in September on one of the biggest cards

Belthor's ever put together. You know him, you love him, the one and only, Gagard Musassi. Gagard, are you there, my friend? I'm good, sir. Thank you. Ah, we have him on phone. Very good. Ah. Where are you, Gagard? Are you back in Amsterdam? Are you back in Holland, rather? Yeah, yeah, I'm in Holland. I'm coming back to L.A. soon. And after that, there's a training camp. So your training camp's not going to be in Holland? Yeah, it's going to be in Holland. But I'm going to take a small holiday.

in U.S. and then come back to sport training camp. You're going to vacation in L.A. Why L.A. of all places? I like the food. I have friends there. It's good. It's good. I like U.S. All right. So I'm glad to hear, Gagard. So thank you for being on the show. Really appreciate it.

Let me, let's ask about this fight. Let me play devil's advocate, if I may for just a second, which is that it's an interesting fight, champion versus champion. I totally understand it. but you have someone in Rory who's very well-rounded. You have someone like you who's also really well-rounded. The real only difference there would be the weight, which would not necessarily make it a bad fight, but one where the outcome was easy to predict. So what do you make of that claim?

Well, weight doesn't make you a winner. He has determination. He has a lot of heart. So the size, he's a big weight. Actually, the size won't be a lot of factor, but, you know, it's going to be a little bit part of, but it's not going to be everything, you know. So it's not just the size or the reach,

but at the end, it's all advantages for me, but that's not going to decide who the winner is going to be. I think if I come in shape, if I come prepared like the last fight, and I should be good to win the fights. So when they offered you this fight, You were interested right away. You had no hesitation.

At first, they said, we need you for a press conference in New York. They didn't say who I was fighting or who else would be on press conference because they were afraid that the news would be leaking. But, yeah, the Arrow Havani leaked it anyway. So he ruined the surprise.

So I didn't know, actually, I was fighting until one week before I was going to New York. But then we knew it was Roy McDonald's. And of course, we said it in media 100 times we want to fight them. So, wait, do you mind? Okay, I've talked to

a number of Bellator fighters, and they all say the same thing that they didn't know who they were fighting. Do you like doing business this way? No, it was only for this time that they didn't say who I was fighting. Because they wanted to be surprised, and I think they didn't have a good reputation of keeping us

secret, so I understand that. You're bad at keeping secrets? What kind of secrets have you told before? No, no, no. The contract negotiation, I don't know, some reporter had contacted Scott, and so I think they were just being careful. So I have no problems. Everything is fine.

Fair enough. Now, you're going to be competing on a really interesting platform, the Dazone platform, or however you want to call it. It's going to be an incredible card. I wonder what you make of, for you, I know as a fighter, you're really probably just focused on the task at hand, but somebody in your position who is making decisions about biggest fights, biggest audiences, what do you make of competing on a streaming platform for the first time?

You know, like I said, I worked with Scott before. I like to grow with the company. Any way I can help or put on his fight, you know, I'm happy to do it. And just because no one is really watching TV anymore, so slowly everything is going to... Did we lose him? I think we lost him. Did we lose him in the back, Danny? Yes, no?

Yeah, okay. We're going to try to reconnect him. This happens to me in my radio show all the time. I'm actually a pro at this. I am so used to this happening. Fighters will call you, like they'll be driving through. I don't know what he's doing up to the moment right now in Holland, but I'll get to. guys driving through like the middle of nowhere in America and the call just drops. We should get

them back there hopefully here pretty soon. Yeah, I'm curious about that Dason thing, right? It's interesting because on the one hand, it's like, I think he's right. I cut the cord. I've talked about cutting the cord a lot. I don't have any hesitation about it. I don't miss it at all. I have everything I need. At the same time, it's like I still feel like there's still a lot of people who have cable packages. There's still a lot of people who can get a big audience going on TV, but is it the right one on Paramount, you know, you just never really know. So I wonder how fighters who are like, yeah, the sort of guard is at the, I won't say the peak, maybe the peak of his powers from a leverage standpoint. He's now the champion. He's got this big opportunity. It's this big card.

They're trying to make a big splash and sort of all these things. And you've got to wonder, but you're going to be on a streaming platform for like the first time, who wants to be that loss leader up front, right? Someone, someone has to, is it falling on a sword? Maybe not for the first time. because you can sign it for free for the first 30 days. But you've got to wonder what the level of enthusiasm is. Sometimes these guys, when you would talk to him, be like, yeah, I'm kind of fighting on Fight Pass. I'm not sure how great that is.

You had Brian Careway, a ranked guy fighting on Fight Pass. He was better about it at the time, I think, understandably. So you have to always kind of wonder, like, at the back of your mind, what's the situation with that? Right? We'll have to see. It's the same point I made about the Rory fight before this, by the way. It's like, if you ask me, are you interested in this fight?

The answer is, of course. If you have two guys that talented, how could you not? be. It would be foolish to say that you weren't interested. But at the same time, you're just sort of asking yourself, well, hold on a second. You got a guy in Rory who can do basically everything for the most part, right? And you get a guy in Musassi who can do basically everything for the most part. Not that their skill sets are identical, but that if they share a commonality, it's that they're both universally quite good at everything. Speaking of which, I believe we have this gentleman back, Mr. Musasi, are you back?

The Moosey's back, bitches. Yes, I'm glad to hear it. Hey, we were talking to... I was killing time waiting for you, Mr. Musassi. Let's talk about... You heard of, yeah. Let's talk about Arori one more time. Do you think he's taking too much damage in his career?

Not really. I don't know. He has two, three hard fights. so, you know, the guy fights. So that's the problem. I was actually, I thought, well, it's a winnable fight. And then I went to watch his fight against Robbie Lawler and a Somo fight. And I was like, okay, I have a fight on my hand.

And I'm not looking forward to go out of five-round and banging it out and get damaged. So it's not a good fight. But if I'm the more, you know, I'm going to be the more technical guy. I'm not going to go brawl and fight who's a better slugger. And so I'm going to make it as technical possible and even take him down the finish on there. And getting back to the original question, you were cut off in the portion of answering it. But speaking about competing on this streaming platform, it's a huge card. It's a huge moment for Bellator.

But nevertheless, I sort of wonder about your feelings on this new and interesting and unexplored territory? Well, I guess the business side, I don't know, but no one is really watching TV anymore. It's going more digital, more people watch their stuff on their iPhone or on their laptop. So it's going that direction.

And to kick it off with this fight part, with Prince and Jack, Van der Leigh, and the Vultivate tournament, and the Mia Gessori, you know, it shows that Beloit has comforts, in me and to headline and be the opening for the new deal that they're having. So obviously I should do my job and have a good performance and finish for it. Is it fair to say you don't care where your fight is shown?

In other words, if you get the right fight on the biggest card, do you not really care at that point? No, I get paid. I get paid anyways. At the end of the day, if I keep the winning my fights, my contract will go up. If it's on pay-per-view or on Netflix, I don't care. It's the same. But, like I said, for me, I care a little bit because, like I said, I want Bellator to grow. I want to be a part of that. And I have a great relationship with Scott.

So, yeah, then I care about where the company is going, of course. So you're the Bellator middleweight champ. You earned that designation recently, but there are a lot of folks. wondering who is the best middleweight on the planet. Do you consider yourself to be the best middleweight in MMA right now? No, I don't consider myself the best. I know I can win from the best. On any given day, I can beat one of the best fighters. It's not my goal to be the best fighter. My goal is to win my fights, earn some pocket money, and yeah. But no, I don't want to can see the even mentioned in that category because oh my god people are going to give me a lot of

crap about that the haters so i rather just do my job and uh i don't care about that you know i don't feel like you have that many haters do you have a lot of haters uh i don't know you know there's a lot of people they always i don't know they always mentioned that i lost to eurya hall or that i lost to jacquer i don't know uh they don't say that also got wins over them. They always go in the past and say, well, he lost to this guy or that guy, you know, I'm not the same guy anymore. I'm a different fighter. I'm in my prime. People are not anymore on steroids. I'm going to beat the shit out of them. It's easier as that. So let's talk about that. I want to push back, if I may, just a little bit respectfully,

Gagard. You'd mention Machita. It's your belief that he used performance-and-dancing drugs during his run in the UFC, right? 100%, 100%. And everyone that's saying I'm a bad loser, they can suck it. If a robbery comes into their house and they rob them with a knife,

I'm going to say they're pussies because they didn't fight back. So, you know, people are idiots. And the first thing, I didn't say, he was slippery as fuck. You know what people don't... You put oil on your body the next one day before,

the next day you sweat it out and you're slippery as fuck and I'm not only saying that you can go and ask Luke Rockall he said he was slippery too and with me he went five rounds so he was sweating very

I was watching the video back I was chiming me down on his back when I had his back you know and then he was shiny as fuck and then he had a six-pack like a

15 year old virgin boy. And then I saw his last five with a feudal belt where he was fat as fuck. So, I'm not, it's just, you know,

what you can see, you can see. You know, you're not blind, go watch the fight. It's easily, you can see. Where's this six-pack?

He had six-packed a couple of months ago. It's gone or a couple of years ago. As soon as you saw that came, he doesn't have that anymore. You know, girl, come on. It's just physics. You can see it.

I'm not, So whatever. Whatever. I don't want to talk about that because people always say you're a bad loser. I'm not saying I'm a bad loser. I'm saying I thought people there were on steroids. You dumb motherfuckers. What can't you understand about that?

Well, are you open to a rematch with him? Rematch 100%. And if you have a rematch, you should be tested the same as you saw the blood and urine. Because he's a cheetahe. 100% is a cheetahs. Okay, but here's my point. If you wanted to go, if you were worried about the opponents who are doing these kinds of things,

then certainly I'm not opposed to Belator having a system that is outside Usada. In fact, I actually think it's a good idea. But I'm wondering if you're worried about a fighter even with Usada, wouldn't you be even more worried about a situation that's technically less testing than that? Well, they're testing the battle to fighters. I got surprised tested at my house a couple of times. So it's not that they even tested crow cop. But I want to have the same way.

The commission is doing a great job. So so far everything has been good. But I think with Machita, they should do extra testing, especially also blood. Because I don't trust that guy. Last thing about Machita And I promise we'll move on Just to play devil's advocate again if I may The substance he tested positive for

You can buy Not even tested positive for actually He just wrote that he took it When I fought him That was before you saw that People have to understand that After you saw that He's been caught for some shitty stupid shit

I don't consider that As being that But listen His buddy Anderson Silva He knew he was getting tested he's got caught twice for steroids. So, listen,

Brazilian have a reputation on being on steroids. That's, you know, that's, I don't know. That's the truth. So, yeah. Yeah, I was just,

I was just referring to the thing that he got in trouble for is not a big deal. What, what, maybe you believe the other things were happening, but. Yeah, yeah, like, what I said before you saw that,

I felt he was, he did something before my fight. And then afterwards, of course, he knows he's going to get tested. He's not going to do the same shit that he was using before. And I'm just wondering where is this six-pack.

People can go and watch the video. Look at Fetal Belfour fight when he was fighting Fetal. He had a chubby belly. He still has to cut that weight. He still has to make that weight. So when you lose all that weight, you've got to be muscular. But he wasn't muscular this one.

I have no insight. information, Gagard, but I'm wondering, hypothetically speaking, would you be upset if Belator signed Vitor Belfort? You seen pictures of Fito Belvoir? He looks jacks again. I actually have not. I've been told that, but I haven't seen him. Yeah. Listen, Fidotelphor and TRT was knocking everyone out. after without TRT, it was losing to everyone. So the problem with, you know,

enhancing drugs is you have all these years of experience and then you do the enhancing drugs and then you have the physical abilities of a 20-year-old and then maybe even better because you overdo the testosterone levels. So yeah, you're going to have advantages.

So, yeah, but listen, and a fair game gameplay. That's all I'm asking for. Whatever, you know. If they allow everyone to use steroids, then sure. No problem. I'm going to use something and then whoever has the better doctor.

But that's not the case. Fair enough. We appreciate your time here, Gingard. Hey, are you watching at all the World Cup? I know you and I are the world's biggest soccer fans. Not so much. Holland is not playing. And then I was hoping to...

that Germany would win, but they're out. I don't know any team that I'm really rooting for. Now, you and I have talked about this a number of times, as the world may not know this, but Gigard Musassi is the world's biggest Real Madrid fan. Is that not correct, Mr. Musassi? That's not correct. I don't like Ronaldo.

I don't like him. I'd rather watch Messi play. What? He's a little bit cocky, Ronald, actually. Aren't fighters a little bit cocky? Yeah, but he's too much like a girl, he wants always the attention on him. You know, I don't like fighters that are warning out for the media. You know what I mean?

I'll tell you what I'm going to do. The next time you come to New York, we have to get you in studio. I'm going to have you your very own. It'll have Musasi on the back jersey from Real Madrid. Because here's the truth. You have acknowledged this before. They're the prettiest jerseys. in soccer, are they not?

Yeah, yeah, it's blue, my color. So I have the shirt of Real Marry, but it was just because it's blue and it looked good on me. All right, well, I'll tell you what, we really appreciate your time, Gaggard. Can't wait to see you. Enjoy your vacation in L.A., but I guess we'll see you before your fight in September.

Thank you so much. For sure. Thank you, my friend. There he goes. Bye-bye. By the way. He is a giant Real Madrid fan. Don't let him fool you at all.

All right, we are just bouncing from one guest to the next. Joining us now through Skype. This man was out there, hog hunting. My lord, if you follow him on Instagram, and he's now going to be out there hunting something else when he's in the main event in UFC Lincoln against Justin Gachie, UFC Lightweight. James Vick joins the show. Hi, James. How are you?

What's up, man? I'm good. Glad to be on. Hey, James. the hog hunting. Are you, like, what do you hunt when you hunt? Like, do you have, like, certain animals you hunt and don't? Um, yeah, uh, well, it's right now, there's, it's, there, for hogs, it's the only thing I can shoot right now, um, besides like coyotes and stuff like that. It's, um, there, you know, it's not deer season, it's not duck season, it's not turkey season. And there's no season for hogs in Texas. Um, there's, there's, there are, uh, basically an invasive species and they just kill thousands of, uh, millions of dollars of crops. And,

there's no season, no limit. You could shoot 30 of them a night if you wanted to. It's just you just go out there and, you know, in the summertime and when I went offseason from deer and season and everything, I just hog on all the time. Well, it was incredible to watch. By the way, what weapon were you using? I noticed it had a magazine loaded into it. I'd never seen that for hunting.

Usually you have bolt action or some other kind of shooting rifle. You were out there just spraying the block. It's called a 6.5 grendon. and it's it's a AR, AR-15, and it holds a 30-round clip, but it's not, it's a semi-automatic, so it's obviously not like a military-style rifle. You know, it's, they're not, it's a semi-automatic. And a lot of wild hog hunters and stuff use them up here in Texas

because, I mean, there's people up here in Texas, that's their full-time job. They're hog eradicators. They get paid to go shoot wild pigs off of farmers' crops, and that's their full-time job. So it's pretty popular. They're going to have a night vision, thermal night vision scope on it also from one of my sponsors pulsar.

All right, let's get to your fight. I could talk about hunting all day. I used to be a hunter, not anymore, but I am very curious to talk about this fight coming up for you. UFC Lincoln, you're now in the main event taking on Justin Gaichi. Isn't life funny? We talked, I think, before your Joe Duffy fight, and you were so frustrated you just couldn't get an opportunity. Here we are a little over a year and a half later or so, something like that.

And dude, this is it. This is the big one, but it came sort of by accident. What are your emotions now that it appears to be on the precipice of the very thing you've been waiting for? I'm excited. I'm excited. I'm like a little kid. I'm getting this opportunity. It's against the guy.

I really don't, you know, I really don't care for. You know, he's a clown in my mind. And it's a great opportunity for me. And the moment they call me, I, you know, I accept the fight. You know, I said, yes, I'll take it 100%. And I feel blessed to be where I'm at. And I feel like it's, this is my, you know, this is my destiny to win this fight and go on to move to bigger things and become a world champion.

And I feel like this is, you know, this is just all part of the process the way it was supposed to happen. Why don't you like Justin Gachia? He seems from, look, from the media standpoint, he seems quite friendly and has a fan-friendly style. What is your issue with him? I don't, it's not that I dislike the guys. Just we have a history of talking trash to each other, you know, because basically, um, It all started back last year when he won his UFC. If you know, he obviously, you got to, nowadays, you have to, you have to close the mouths don't get fed.

You got to, you got to talk some shit. You got to say some stuff to get fights. And the dude gets on the microphone after he wins and says, who's my equal? So, of course, you know, I run up to, I'm sitting there, Cade side at the International Fight Week. I'll run up to Sean Shelby. I said, I want that fight. And then I went on Twitter and I was like, yeah, I'll knock this motherfucker out. And then from there, he started talking shit.

And then I went back and we've been going out of it off and on for like a year. And then he brought me up in some interview on an MMA junkie before, you know, talking some shit. So we've just been going back at it for about a year now. What do you think he is in his career? I mean, I think for him, for him to be where he's at, I think he's doing a good job because honestly, I don't think he's a world-class fighter. I don't. I think the guy padded his records against B-level competition in the UFC. And I think, I mean, against UFC competition outside of the UFC.

And now that he's came over here, he's been exposed. He's been beat. He's been knocked out. He has world-class hearts. He's a warrior. He's not a punk. You know, he's a,

this dude's a warrior. I understand why he's a fan favorite. I get why, why fans love him so much. I mean, I like watching the fight. The dude's exciting, you know,

but he's, you know, he's a tough guy, but I have all those attributes, too. You know, if you think that I can't bite down on my mouthpiece

and throw leather and set there and, you know, tough it out, just win like that. I don't have to fight like that because I have a skill set. And he,

I think he lacks that. He has world-class, hard, old-class grit in him, but he doesn't have world-class skill set. And I think he's going to be exposed. I just don't think he's a top-tenth-partner than you'll see him. What would you say, beyond his toughness and durability and willingness to exchange?

Just speaking to his actual technical skills, what do you think he's good at? I mean, he has good low kicks. He throws him fast, and he's not really worried about getting them checked. He'll just throw caution to the wind. He really don't even set a lot of more up that much. He just throws them, you know? And so I'm assuming conditions his shins, you know, really hard to be prepared if he gets checked and stuff like that.

And he seems like he has decent power. Nothing great, but decent power. But I think besides the fact that he's just a tough guy with hearts, you know, in a good chin, you know, that's about it. I'm sure you've seen now the Alvarez and Poirier fights. When you look at those, what is your takeaway in terms of the responsibility? you have that you need to keep in the fight to beat him? Well, first of all of them, I feel like I'm going to hurt him faster than a lot of those guys did.

I think I'm going to hurt him quicker. I'm taller. It's going to be harder for him to get in on me. So when he comes in, he's really going to get lit up. I think he caught them early. They didn't move quick enough to get out of the way and some leg kicks or they didn't check them. They should have just come out immediately and try to check first two or three or just stepped off.

And instead, they tried to meet fire with fire a little too early. and then they were shook up a little bit from the low kicks. And then from there, they kind of just had to bite down. And they bit down on their mouthpieces. And, you know, they basically showed they had more will than him also, you know. I mean, he's a tough dude and has will too. But, you know, there's plenty of us in the UFC that have that. They showed it as well.

So why does he have such a reputation for it? I mean, if your point is correct, and I think there is something to it that lots of guys have strong will, why is he, in your judgment, the flag bearer for it? Why is he the guy that is just known for it? because he fights that way every fights. And this is what people don't understand is, is the reason why he fights like this, and I'm really not trying to discredit him.

I'm really not. I mean this when I say this, even though I really, you know, me and him have our personal issues. But the guy, he fights the way he fights because he has no choice. He has short,

short reach. He's not very fast. He's not that athletic. He fights what the attributes he has. The only way he can win is the bite down his mouthpiece and break people or stuff. He throws tons of low kicks. because he's really hardly even flexible enough to throw high kicks.

He doesn't have a lot of attributes. So he did great with what he has. So he has no choice with to fight those ways. A lot of us that do have grit and toughness just like he does, we have other options. You know, so why would I, I can put a show for the fans and not get beat in my head for three months. I can just go out there and knock somebody up.

Now, granted my last fight wasn't maybe as exciting as people wanted it to, but before that, I highlight real three people in a row. So, you know, I can put on exciting fights without taking beatings, you know. He can't. He has to take a meeting. If not, he's never going to have a chance to win. Now, James, where does this push you? Currently the rankings for whatever they're worth, but they do exist.

He's sitting at 7. You're currently positioned at 11. Now, obviously, if you win, you would jump in the rankings. But I'm wondering, positionally, where do you think that would put you inside the division? That's still at the top, a little bit uncertain. I'm hoping it puts me right there to fight to to right right there probably you know saying like number six definitely number seven you know hopefully after I beat him you know I take his spot but hopefully you know around number six in the world is the plan so that would put you

what in position for a fight with someone like Kevin Lee after that I want to get ahead of it I realize you have a big fight but that's kind of the space you're thinking of I mean I here's the thing is is after I well you and fuck Kevin Lee you You know, he's turned down two fights with me, and I've been calling this guy for two years. So the only way I'm fighting Kevin Lee is two reasons. If it's going to be a main event or I'm not taking a fight, and they're going to have to give me more money. Because how many times do I have to fucking call this guy out?

You know, I'm not, I'm tired of, I feel like I'm being desperate, begging to fight this guy for two years now, and he continues to turn down fights. Same thing with him and Kiesa, fuck them, their ship is sailed. How many times do I have to call someone out until it's a joke anymore? You know, until, like, what happened to the dignity of a man, you know, at least Gachie has some dignity. They ask him to fight me on basically two hours notice on Wednesday night. He took the fight, and I took the fight.

These guys have no dignity as a fucking man. And there's a fighter to fight people. So, you know, yeah, I'll fight them. But I'm going to get some incentive for it because, you know, I've been trying to fight the guy. Yeah, I would love to fight the winner of Poirier-Pettis. I mean, Poirier or Gaecchi, or not Gaughey, Poirier and Eddie Alvarez. Or maybe I would like to get the – maybe I'd like to fight Tony Ferguson when he comes back. After I win this fight, I'm 10 and 1 in the UFC.

The only two guys in my division that have a better record to me is, is Tony Ferguson who's 13 and 1, and Khabib who's 10 and 0 because he's never lost. So there's the only two guys in the division that have a better record than I do in the UFC record. So, you know, why can't I fight Tony Ferguson when he comes back off injury? Probably at the end or beginning of the year. So what about the idea that when I interviewed you, again, I think it was about a year and a half ago, you were like, I can't get these guys inside the top 10 to give me a shot. do you feel a responsibility to give guys ranked below you an opportunity?

Maybe at some point, but right now, how many guys do they rank below me do I have to fight? You know what I'm saying? I'm nine and one. If I was five and O in the UFC, like there's three guys or four or four, actually there's four or five guys in the UFC right now that are five and O. I get it. They deserve chances on the top 15. I understand that.

But I've also, after I win this fight, I have double the wins in the organization they have. How many of these guys, if I was 25 years old, I'd fight everybody, anybody, just like Darren Till, you know, he gets on the mic, you know, I want to, fight them all because he's 25. I'm 31 years old. My goal is to be a world champion. I couldn't get the UFC to promote me when I was 27 or 28 years old and I was 5 and over the UFC. How to hell am I going to get them to promote me now? If I'm 32 years from now, I'm 32, 33 years old, still fighting dudes, you know, right below me, you know? So I feel like I've earned this opportunity. It's not like I'm a, I'm a two and two and two or three and old guy in the UFC begging for

the top five guy. After I win this fight, I'm a 10 and one guy in the UFC with only two guys. The only way I'm accepting the fight with someone right below me after this is if I get a main event spot. If I get a main event spot, then we'll talk about it. But it's not worth. I mean, how many more dues do I have to pay? You know what I'm saying? Everyone's like, oh, your time will come. When is my damn time coming?

I'm six years deep in the UFC. And after this fight, I'm 10 and 1. By the way, how are you spreading your camp? I know you were recently in my neck of the woods in Camp Springs, Maryland, just outside D.C. And now I saw you were hog hunting. So you're obviously not there. How is your camp spurting? split for this one.

Yeah, well, so they called me on Wednesday night to take the fight. So I had to leave the first flight the next morning to go to Link in Nebraska to film or do to do some interviews and media tour stuff, right? So then I had them fly me home straight from Nebraska here to Texas. And I'm going to stay here for about 10 days until next Monday. And then I'm going to go stay here for about eight or 10 days. And then I'm going to go back to Maryland and finish the last six weeks there because I'm in shape. I'm, you know, I've been at Kent, you know.

So it's not like, you know, and I'm training here. I already trained, I already trained today, and I'm training again in a few more hours. So I'm doing two days here as well. What do you make of Paul Felder, who was your original opponent, now facing Mike Perry up a weight class? Certainly you can understand his frustration. He had one fight fallout and then another one,

one he was supposed to take with you. I think we could all understand, hey, if someone got a main event slot, you're going to take that, no issue there. But I'm wondering what you make of Paul Felder versus Mike Perry. Short notice, up a weight class. It's an interesting one, right? Yeah, I felt, you know, I felt,

bad pulling out of the fight I did for Felder because I mean I get I get his frustration you know because I've been I've been been frustrated of course he would have did the same thing you know with the main event I think he understands that and everything I think that um I think Felder's got a great chance to win this fight against Perry I really do because I don't think Mike Perry's way bigger than Paul Felder I think he's maybe a little bit bigger but my Paul Felder has a really good chin and he's it's really not short notice it's one week compared to what he was fight the week after and he don't have to cut all the weights. So he's probably, you know, he's going to have an easier cut to 170

because he was probably already coming down, you know, pretty decently close to that already. And it's only one week earlier than what he was already going to fight anyway. So he basically had a full camp. So I think, you know, honestly, I think Paul Felder has a great chance to win this fight stylistically. Fair to say now you have enough time to implement any kind of game plan change, but different game plan for Paul Felder versus Justin Gachie,

correct? Yeah, but not a lot. I mean, they're very similar. They're both orthodox fighters. They both, they both were going to try to locate me a lot and use Muay Thai. And they're both kind of flat-footed fighters, you know, flat-footed moit Thai fighters. Justin Gaetey throws more caution to the wind. He's going to come harder with more pressure.

And Paul Felder has better defense, you know, which basically means Justin Gates, he's just going to get hit more, you know. He's going to get hit more. And so it's, I mean, this fight ain't going five, You know, we're not going to go five rounds. Hit the way he fights. It's either he's going to break me, which is definitely not going to happen. I have more will than he does.

Or I'm going to catch him because he's, you know, a lot of these guys I fight, I hit him and they stay on the outside and then they try to figure out, you know, a way to come back in. Gachy's just going to come straight in and just take damage. And I'm going to land something big and I'm going to knock them out. If you win this, fair to say this would be the signature win to date on your career? Yeah, for sure, just because it's a main event spotting. It's a guy ranked above me.

I don't necessarily think he's the best opponent I fought, but he has the biggest name. So, yeah, it's definitely the biggest fight of my career. Who do you think is better than him that you fought? I mean, I think several guys are better than him. Honestly, I mean, I don't think Justin Gates. He's a world-class fighter. I don't. I think he has world-class heart.

He's a dog. He's a warrior. but this dude's skill set ain't world class. And he's seeing that when, you know, he's seeing that when he's coming to the UFC. He patted his record against B-level competition outside of the organization. And then he comes in and now he's one and two in the UFC. I mean, I think I fought several people.

I think Joe Duffy was better than him. I think Chernobyl is a tougher fighter than Gates. You know, I think that's, I think, you know, one of my tougher fights was actually my second fight, I guess a dude who kind of got, I felt like I got screwed over from the UFC. Valmere Lissarro, if you remember that fight. I mean, that guy was a dog.

He was a warrior, and he lost to me, and then he won one, and then he lost to, what's his name, Michael, the dude who missed weight, like, the lightweight that missed weight like five times, so they moved him up. My, my. The little tank Brazilian guy. Michael. Oh, Prasarish, Prasarish.

Yeah, so he lost a split decision to him, and he stuffed that 13 of that 14 guys. I think he was a tougher fight. I think the guy, you know, he basically lost us to. And, you know, I think I fought, you know, at least three guys that are tougher than Gatchie or better fighters, you know, but he definitely fought several of them more skilled-wise. He has a lot of heart. I'll give them that.

But there's a lot of people in the UFC that have a lot of heart. They just don't have to fight like that because they have more attributes than he does. Well, James, you have, I was already interested in this fight. You have certainly increased my interest. I cannot wait for this Lincoln, Nebraska card. And it's a big fight for you. It's an opportunity I know you've been waiting for us. so I'm glad to see you finally got it.

Good luck with the hog hunting and everything else. Appreciate your time today. Can't wait to see the main event. Oh, there's a little one behind you, too. Who's that? Yeah, that's my son. He's this next, or this week, he's going to be three months old. That's James Jr. right there.

We can't see him. But it all, there it is. Look at that little guy. Well, I can see his head now. He is very, well. Hi, James, Jr. Can you put the camera down a little bit? bit. Put it down. Okay, put him up there. There he is. Well, not even. I can see the top of his head. That's it.

Okay. There. You know what? He's got a cute set of eyes. We got to get moving, James, but I got to say you have a cute little one. That was really nice to see him behind you. Take good care of him. I know you will. Take good care of yourself. Can't wait for that Lincoln, Nebraska fight. Thank you so much, James. Thank you, sir. Appreciate it. Yeah, there he goes. All right. That was fun. All right. Enough with the guests. Now it's the portion of the show where you are our guest, ladies and gentlemen, it is time for the sound off. As is customary with the sound off, we go to our friend in the back,

Mr. I hate peanut butter. What an absolutely lame opinion that was. By the way, I asked my wife about that. I was like, did you hate peanut butter? You know her answer was, because she came to this country in the way that you did. She said when she first came here,

yes, she did hate peanut butter, but she's not a visigoth who drags her knuckles across the ground, she learned, like most people do, who don't have the palate of a toddler, that peanut butter is delicioso, okay? Look, I'll eat peanut butter, but it's not good. All right.

I'm glad to hear it. Hey, how were the calls this week? They were pretty good. We got some mouth breathing. We got it all. Okay, well, set this up for me, please. Let's get this going. We have no time to waste.

So we got a big weekend ahead, so let's start off with some UFC. All right. Hey, Luke. This is Chris from Indianapolis, Indiana, and I'm curious, what do you think is least likely to happen? Max Holloway submitting Ortega or D.C. knocking out to DPEA. Super 5. Sepra 5. Do or die?

Love the pink mist. Blood makes the grass grow, all that good stuff. I would say the answer there, Chris. Appreciate the call. Appreciate people who, by the way, give their name in town. Name in town. That's big. And, of course, that number, of course, 844-866-24-6-24-6-8.

I would say least likely to happen would be Mac submitting Brian. I thought when Mark Bochek fought Mac Danzig back in the day, do you remember that fight? If you guys who don't know, Mark Bochak's literally one of the best Canadian grapplers ever and much better on the ground, pure ground skills than Mac Danzig. But Mac Danzig gave him one of these and then the submission came a lot quicker. So I could see it under those scenarios. But DC throwing hands and then finding a chance to catch Depe, however likely or unlikely one may find, that to me would be a little bit easier to imagine than Max beating.

I could see him, I can see any outcome, but it would take a lot of extra steps to get Max submitting Brian Ortega. It can happen with one of these, but I don't know how likely that is. Same. I mean, I can see a scenario where Holloway rocks Ortega and then hops onto a submission, you know, and he's got a really good guillotine. Sure. One that he hasn't used recently.

But does he have the courage to use it rather than just keep punching? That's the other point, right? I mean, even a wobbled Ortega can be dangerous on the ground. If you try to grapple with him, I'm sure, you know, even wobbled, his instincts will just kick in. And do you want to pull guard with him? Yeah, probably not. Right. All right, but good question, though.

Cool. Set it up, fool. So, let's go with the topic of Ortega Holloway. Let's keep that flowing. All right. Hey, guys, this is, I just want to say it's a great show and keep up the good work. My question is, we got International Fight Week coming up. Lots of big matchups.

One I'm most particular interested in is Max Holloway and Brian Ortega. I was wondering, if Max Holloway wins, do you think he moves up to lightweight right away? Or if Ortega wins, do you think there's an immediate rematch? What are your thoughts on that whole matchup as a whole and where each guy goes after this? Thanks, guys. If it's controversial, for sure there's a rematch, right? in the sense of Ortega winning and it's for whatever reason, controversial,

bad ref stoppage or crazy decision or whatever. If he outright smokes him, maybe, just to keep it kind of interesting because the featherweight division has a bunch of up-and-coming guys, but you're not looking at that one next guy who's screaming at you as like, that's the contender. We don't have quite that position.

So no, I don't see that. I do think he would, if Holloway wins, likely stay at featherweight for another one if for some reason they can find a contender. However, what I imagine might happen is, dude, lightweight is in such disarray that I don't know what they want to do, but I bet if they did something like, so they had UFC 100, then UFC 101 was Anderson Silva moving up to 205 facing Forrest Griffin. If for some reason they needed him to jump up and face a Kevin Lee or, I don't know, the winner of if something happens between, God forbid,

Eddie and Dustin, one of them falls through and you need Max Holloway to jump up. I could see a scenario like that, but that wouldn't be for a title, but it would be at 155. In other words, let's see what the biggest fight is for Max Holloway if he wins after Saturday, and I bet he takes that independent of weight class.

Everything else, a little bit in flux. Yeah, Max Holloway has been, you know, super big on defending his belt and making that known. I think if he wins, he's probably going to stick around a fight or two. But if he loses, I wouldn't be surprised if he just changes weight classes and go up to 150. It's a good point, too. Yeah. What if he loses, he just jumps at 155?

It says, F it. These cuts too much. All the big fights are at 155 too. Have you seen Max Holloway in person? Yes, I have, actually, when he was going to fight Habib. Yeah, he's bigger than people think he is. Yeah. He's much big.

When he loses all that weight, he gets this sort of waify rail look to him. But when he's filled out, he is a lot bigger. think, then folks realize. I know this is a different comparison, but he kind of reminds me when Anthony Johnson fought at 170, like you get this very, like, slim-down version. When you see him off-season, he just looks like naturally big, yeah. Yeah, I, I, maybe, maybe, well, remember, Anthony Johnson also fought middleweight as well, David Ranchon.

He was even then a little bit diminished relative to that 205 version. What's next? Cool. So is it a, is it, is it an MMA show if we don't talk about Conor-Mor-Regger? As a matter of fact, it is. Did you realize in the first show, we barely even talked about him? Yeah, barely. It wasn't by design.

It's going to be a Connor McGregor-free zone. But I was just, there are other people to talk about. But to your point, here we are. Two shows in. It's as far as we got. Let's do it. All right? Here's your weekly Connor McGregor question.

Let's do it. Hey, what's going on, guys? Congratulations, Luke on the show. I am calling because I'm curious to know if you believe Connor McGregor will fight before the end of the year. If so, when? And I also want to say, Semper Phi. It's nice to see another. successful jarhead doing good things out there. Take it easy. Bye.

God damn right. Is she said a Marine Corps support? People don't know shit about that. Let me tell you something. Semper fight Delis. God damn it. I would say I do think it's likely, Danny. And I'll tell you why. I think ultimately his court case is going to be resolved in a professional, I wouldn't say expedited, but certainly a professional reasoned manner. He appears to have expensive and therefore capable attorneys. I think his case being a first-time offender makes this his celebrity notwithstanding, fairly straightforward. And I think as part of that, not so much the settlement, the settlement will be what it is,

but then as a gesture of goodwill getting back out there to the competitive ranks, in what capacity I don't know, right? Is he going to fight St. Pierre? Is he going to fight Nirmugamadov? Is it going to be in New York? Is it going to be in Las Vegas? I don't know. But I think he will try to, A, return to action.

I think the UFC wants him to independent of all these legal reasons. And I just feel like the legal reasons give him just enough of a push to return to competitive normalcy, which, by the way, his team said at the outset of this that they expected and wanted him to do. So yes, a when, where, against who? I don't know. But before the clock strikes January 1st, 2019, I do think so. I believe so, too. And regarding the case, I talked to a lawyer that works at the Brooklyn Courthouse where he was

where he had his hearings. And this is a guy that, you know, he's, again, not a first-time offender. And this is a guy that you would want him not in prison. You want him outside. This is a guy that can bring a lot of revenue to cities. He can educate the masses if you put him to do, you know, some community service hour and talk to communities, etc. So I can definitely see him coming back in 2018. Very good. Do we have more calls from Marines? This is making me very, very patriotic. I think this was the last one. But there is a follow-up to this question. It might get a little choppy. I can clear it up if you need it.

I like more than bad audio. No, I'm not saying about the audio. Actually, the actual question. Okay, okay. Hey, what's up, Luke and Danny? Hey, uh, congratulations on the takeover there. Luke, you guys are kicking ass. That first episode is awesome.

My name's Chris. I'm from Montana. My question is, uh, if Kabeeb faces somebody else, like Porier or whoever is, uh, is up and he loses. Does that make the fight with Connor? It was intriguing because Connor still want that fight. Um, we all,

know how Connor and his mentality is, how he always wants to fight the best. But I'm wondering if you want to fight could be, no matter what. All right. Thanks a lot, guys. Take care. Yeah, they're in this precarious position where they need those two together. The fight wouldn't, I'm not saying if he lost a Poirier or something that it would lose all value, but it would lose a lot of it, Danny. That would not, that would be a major problem for them. And they're in this position now where, what's interesting is Connor could fight St. Pierre and lose or Nate Diaz

and lose at let's say 170 or whatever the hell wait. Even 155 and I don't think it would matter so much but if Habib loses then he loses the title and then it's just sort of because he has this undefeated luster does he not. He's the undefeated champion. It's two things working for him.

If you take both of those away you still have this rivalry and you could make it work but that would be a fairly significant downgrade in my judgment. Yeah I mean everything that happened at USC 23 it was obviously a black eye in the sport, but you can't deny, it does make this fight between Habib and Connor a lot bigger. And, you know, he is undefeated. He does have the belt. So if he loses being undefeated and

having the belt, I wonder how interested Connor McGregor is in fighting him, you know. Right. There has to be, there has to, he has to have something that Connor has to take from him. Exactly. If you, if you've already had someone take those things, you could do it, but what can you say about it? You made an interesting point to people like, oh my God, it's disgusting that I was tweeting back and forth with Pablo Tori about this, although we were largely in agreement. And it is about, is it gross that the UFC would use potentially what happened at that incident in Brooklyn to promote the fight? And the answer is gross or not is it is the inevitability of things, right? The fight game has a real nihilistic streak where it doesn't matter how good or bad it is, especially on the bad side.

If it has functional value to promotion, it simply will get used. and the things that can be used that are on the bad side are almost endless. In fact, they're not using it explicitly. They're using a redemption story, but look at Greg Hardy, right? They're like, well, it's the redemption. He's on the comeback. But it is off the backdrop of this terrible, frankly, conviction that was expunged. I understand, but they're not even alleged, bad things he had done.

And so you just have to, you have to, part of covering the fight game is covering sometimes bad people who or good people. who've done bad things. Yeah, and I also like that I feel like MMA media and just media in general has a worse view on this situation. I was talking to my barber when that happened just weeks after and he was asking me questions about Connor McGregor

and he was laughing and he's like, wow, Connor McGregor's the man, he's a unbaccan, he's Dominican. He's like, oh, he's super cool and I was like, that's kind of messed up what he did, but, you know, I think it's viewed under a different light of you're a fan. Also, people don't realize, what are you done to, maybe Ray Borg or Kiesa or

you know, Rose Nama Eunice, and he just saw him, you know, in the words of people much younger and cooler than me, wild and out. And they like that kind of thing. Where's my mouth breather? That'll come. It'll be, we'll leave it last. All right. What's next? Cool.

So let's talk about an exciting prospect that you and I are somewhat high on. Right. Hey, Luke. This is, Hey, Luke. This is Omar calling from Washington, G.C. I was wondering what your thoughts were on Gregor, Gillespie and how he's been doing so far. Do you think he's talented enough to reach the top five of the light division? And if so, how does he's wrestling fare with someone like Khabib?

Thanks again. Bye. I do think he has top five potential. Now, we got to move this along very quickly. I don't mean to be disrespectful to Mr. Gillespie. He's an unusual guy. You ever talk to him? I haven't, but...

He's a different guy. First of all, he lives his own life. The man loves fishing more than, I think, you and I like breathing. He has a total independent streak. he has, I won't say bizarre views of the world, that's not quite right, but again, very unique, very independent, very much his own track. And his wrestling, dude, he's got that folk style wrestling with the wrist rides and the hip, and he's so good with that kind of thing. Against Habib, Habib is different because he can, as I mentioned before, he has the throes of judo, he has the wrestling rides

of folk style, he's got good bodylock trips, he just can do it all. I don't know that anybody has that wrestling, but does Gregor Gillespie have that top five potential, that Kevin Lee wrestling, where He can guard pass and he can risk ride and he can work from Turtle and he can do all those kinds of things. Plus, he's got that Division I intensity. Yes, he does. Gregor Gillespie has my attention, ladies and gentlemen. I agree with everything you said. Good.

You should just say that after every one of these. Yeah. Let's play a little bit of matchmaking now. Hey, Luke. This is Joel from Jersey. Congratulations to the gigs. Quick question. With a superfight happening this weekend, what super fight should the UFC make next?

and another quick one if you could come up with a super fight in MMA so including the Askins, the Rories, the Faders, what was your matchmake? Thanks, man. Bye. That was a little weird. Nice little touch at the end.

It's like my girlfriend in high school would sign off on voicemails that way. I would say, first of all, I mean, does, is Lesnar Jones a superfight? Yeah. Yeah, so that's my answer and that would be my answer

for either of those. I would be interested in seeing like an Ascran Habib or an Ascran Maya, something like that. I'd be curious to see that as well. I don't know how much of a super fight that is in terms of the historic heights of money revenue generation you could reach. But my own personal unique interest, yeah. And money-wise, I would say Jones and Brock Lessor is the biggest fight you can make. Yeah. And I still want to see Kane Velazquez back.

I don't know what kind of state he's in and what his career holds for the future. But I still believe if we can get a healthy Kane Velasquez, John Jones has my attention as well. That'd be a fun one. Mm-hmm. Cool. let's keep the matchmaking theme going on. All right? Hey, it's David calling out of Hollywood, Florida.

My question is as follows. I saw that Vitor posted on Instagram. Who would you rather me, Faith? And you posted a picture of Tito, Chuck, and I believe Van der Le. I'd like to know who Luke would rather see either Vitor Chuck, Vitor Tito or Tito versus Chuck as we've been

hearing as in the makes. Thank you and have a great day. I appreciate it. Bye. You sure that wasn't Mike Bonn? That sounded just like Mike Bonn. Might have been. Didn't it?

Might have been, yeah. Carmen the Frog sounded Canadian. Sorry, Mike Bonn, I'm just teasing. He's going to get all bitter at me like everyone does in MMA. I would say, Tito Chuck, actually. I'm a little bit, I, Vitor has had a Hall of Fame career, yeah?

I've had enough, personally, and I don't mean that to be disparaging, I just mean to say he had a great run. I think it came to a close. You could say that about the other two, but Chuck has had to, I don't know, man, there's not a significant difference for me,

but other than Chuck's been off and if it's in California, and if it's properly regulated, Tito, who appears to be more competitive now than he was during those first two fights, I guess of the three those are the ones I want to see.

I would agree. I don't know if I want to see B-Tor or at least the version that we saw in Bellator. Maybe T-R-T-B. You mean UFC. Yeah. Cool. Now we're going to go,

we're going to keep the Bellator train going. Can we like edit through these? Because we are running out of time. Do you want to just get to the mouth breather? All right. Where do you think this was, this call came from? Do you want to, do you need a replay?

Yeah. Who is that? Who knows? Is this some dog breathing into the phone? Yeah, that's all we got. That's it? That's it. Can we have better mouth breathers?

We need them. Look, you need mouth breathers. Like you need Ivy versus Fulton and MMA. This show can't thrive without mouth breathers. But I need better ones than that. Gotta step your game up. You know what, mouth breathers, you have let me down today. I'm really disappointed in you.

That sucks. All right, do we have tweets? We do have tweets. Let's get to some of these tweets. Here's the thing with this. We got to make this segment longer. It's too short. It needs to be 30 months.

minutes because there's so many great calls that we haven't had a chance to get to, so be a great tweets you haven't had a chance to get to, and then we got one guy, mouth breathing, and not even doing the mouth breathing bit well. I'm very disappointed by the mouth breathers. All right, let's get to some of these tweets, please. Let's do some tweets. Hey guys, this is from Kyle O'Neill Mickles, I guess. Hey, guys, how many pay-per-view buys do you guess UFC 26 will get? Keep up the great work, Luke and Danny. Well, thank you very much, Mr. Kyle. Danny, I will say, ready for this? Go for it. 500K. Really? Yeah. I'm a little more pessimistic. I would go

400. I mean, I haven't really felt the buzz around it. Yep. And you know, that might change a little later in the week. But, you know, especially with the pay-per-view business, the way it's going on. I would say 400, 450 is my guess. I think between four and five is probably a fair bracket. All right. Let's move on. Yes. Would you be in favor, this person writes, this is Tom from Aslan Tom. Would you be in favor of an MMA World Cup every four years with countries sending their top prospects to battle it out? No, I don't really need to see that. I wouldn't mind. other combative sports in the Olympics,

and that being what it is. I know we're running late. You're on screen, you're on screen, just so you know, buddy. We can see you. I wouldn't mind other combative sports playing a bigger role in the Olympics,

but I think just keep MMA the way it is. Yeah, I wouldn't mind seeing a promotion, try it out, but yeah. Or even amateur MMA if they could make it happen in the Olympics, if there was some kind of arrangement we could come to, I'd be all right with that. Cool. All right, let's move on to the next one.

Please. All right, this comes from our friend Reese Burnett. If you could sit in the matchmaker chair for one day, what are the fights you would make to bring the most eyes money to the sport? As I mentioned, Jones Lesner would be one kind of Kane Velas. Again, I'm an old school guy. The Kane Velasquez one would really interest me. St. Pierre, Connor is an easy one.

Again, for just most money, right? And then cross-promotion, right? Co-promote with Bellator. You're asking me to sit in the chair? I'm going to sit in the chair. Why not some co-promotion? You can say the UFC will never do it. I understand that.

You understand that. But you could do some big fights that way. You could really, you know, you could do a Chandler versus, I don't know, somebody. I know how big that would be, but as a portion of the card itself to build the card out, it'd be huge. That'd be fun. Revolutionary is what it would be. Yeah. Well, let's move on to the next question.

Let's do that. All right. This is from Zappo. Also, can we have a braydown of thawn makers flying knees during Philippines, Australia, B, Brawl. Brall. Luckily, we got the footage. Let's see this footage, please.

Look at these donks. Play it. Do we have the footage? Let's see this don't. Go back. Go back. What are you doing? We're going back. Because this is a wheel.

You have to go all the way around. Ah. I see it airing on the screen on the other screen. Oh, there we go. Is it airing? Yeah. Thon Makers is out here swinging, chasing. Look at him.

Oh! Hold that! Now Thawn Maker's just kind of... How is Thorn Maker? Is he playing for Australia? He's not Australian. He's like Sudanese. But watch this, watch this.

This dude comes through. Hold on. Kind of is a bit of a flop here, right? Watch his elbow. Buckham. Reminded me that elephant who hit him with his trunk. And then, watch this fool come in here. Just flying in the air.

Watch this. Watch this. Tiger, upper cut, bop. Oh, that's great. There's nothing better than bad basketball fights. It's like I could just, it's like, it's like popcorn to me. I love watching it. But Don Maker didn't do a whole lot.

Can I just, I just, I don't know, stood around. I've seen better. You ever seen this? Who two-piece check that one? No, not check. Kobe that one time. What was his name? You remember that?

I remember. Kobe got kind of pushed him and put his elbow up, and the guy went, bop, bop, hit him with the two-piece. It was great. Bean one, too. Any other tweets we can get to? I have to get uptown, so we got to... Yes, just real quick, finishing off with your military experience. Yes, please.

How has your military experience, how has your military experience helped in getting to where you are today? Congrats on the success, look forward to where you take this. Boy, everyone's been quite nice. Thank you so much for that. I really appreciate that. That makes my day. So I don't know how to answer that exactly. I would say maybe no one in my family had done the military before, and you ask why I joined. I'll be candid. I did not join out of any particularly patriotic obligation. I just thought

the Marine Corps was one of the coolest things that I've ever seen. No one of my family had done it. It would be a good test and a good character development. And I was right. It was one of the toughest things I'd ever done, not merely boot camp itself, but the entire process of learning and maintaining and getting promoted through the ranks. I would just say it was, it taught me the value of hard work. Yeah, because you are not going to get anywhere in the military if you're not willing to work by the sweat of your brow. I don't care what job it is, whether you are in logistics. I don't know if they have cooks in the Marine Corps anymore they used to. I think they phase that MOS out.

And you're going to have hard time. Sleepless nights, no food, terrible conditions, sickness, injury, and you just have to find a way to push through. So I would say that that has been... And look, everyone's really nice to you about being in the military, but personally, like, it just taught me, like, this is what hard work looks like.

This is the level. You have to reach that every time. Yeah? All right. I think we were out of here. Danny. That's all we got. It was a great show.

We got to make this segment longer. It's way too short. It's way too short. So we got to figure that out. But a good show. You got big plans for the game tomorrow. Make it fast. Yeah, well, I'll probably be in the office,

but I'll be rocking my Columbia jersey, maybe bring some Colombian treats to the rest of people here at the office. That's it. We're going to go, much. All right. Thank you guys so much for watching. I really appreciate it. We'll be back next Monday.

Another show. I'll be in Las Vegas. If you see me, say hi, and don't be weird. Until next time, stay frosty.