MMA Fighting - The MMA Hour with Luke Thomas – Episode 445

Episode Date: August 6, 2018

On this episode of The MMA Hour, we talk to Dustin Poirier, who returns to the show to discuss his UFC 230 fight against Nate Diaz, and Israel Adesanya, who faces Derek Brunson on the mega UFC 230 New York card. We speak to Sarah Kaufman on our Monday Morning Analyst segment to review the action from UFC 227 and preview some of the big fights on the horizon. We also answered your tweets and voicemails regarding the latest news in MMA and much more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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The meeting will begin when passenger Fisher is done celebrating. 19 plus Ontario only. Please play responsibly concerned by your gambling or that if someone close, you call 1-8665-3-3-2-60 or visit comex Ontario.ca. It's the mixed martial arts hour What's up everybody? It is Monday, August 6, 2018, and Caesar is home. How are you? My name is Luke Thomas, and this is the MMA Hour here on MMAfighting.com.

Thank you so much for joining me. I greatly appreciate it. Not a moments away. We have a very jam-packed show for you guys today. In about five minutes or so, we're going to be joined by Invicta Band. Antomate Champion. Sarah Kaufman will be here. She'll be doing our Monday morning analyst segment. Looking back at UFC 227, looking ahead, GFC 230, 229, 228, the whole kind of business there.

Then at 1220, speaking of UFC 230, he'll be taking on Nate Diaz in the biggest fight of his life. Dustin Parier returns to the show at 1240. He's also going to be in that UFC 230 card. Israel Adasanya will join us all the way from New Zealand to discuss what appears to be his grudge match with Derek Brunson. Then at 1 o'clock, we're going to do the weigh-in. I'm going to weigh in anyway. 105, no, excuse me, 1-15 or so. We'll get to your tweets. Then we're going to do the sound off.

We've got a lot of stuff to get to. As always, number to call 844-866-24-68. Keep sending those phone calls. I'm told they were very good over the weekend. I don't know how many of you were heavy breathing into the receivers of your phone, like a bunch of weirdos, but I'm going to guess it was a significant portion. So keep sending those calls and the tweets as well using the hashtag the MMA hour. There you go. You can see that there at the bottom of your screen. All right. Fun show planned.

Looking forward to it. Got a couple of hours here to follow up. What a great weekend it was. I don't know if it, you know, maybe something bad happened in your life. It was a good weekend for me. It was my birthday yesterday. I turned 39 and I feel old as Christ. But I had a good birthday. My family took care of me. I got to see my dad. My wife cooked for me. I got to go and have a day to myself, do a couple of things I wanted to do. Saturday, got to watch some just absolutely sensational mixed martial arts. Really, if there's anything you take from Saturday, there's a lot of things you can take from Saturday, but if you really want to be like just very candid about it, if you watch that co-main and especially for me that main event, like elite

MMA and even like really good, MMA, they're just, they don't look the same. They're like wildly different. They feel different. The actions different. The, the competitors are different. It's like the sweet spot of MMA is narrow, but what is inside of it is the nectar of the gods,

ladies and gentlemen. That was a fantastic show. So I really enjoyed it. I had a great weekend. I would say I'm refreshed, but I'm coming on here. Again, every time you see me on these Mondays, chances are I've slept three hours

and I'm just taking years off my life doing the show. I'm dying is what I'm basically trying to tell you. So watch the show while you can because I don't know how much life I have left to live. Now, he is the aros to my frihole, the Arequipe to my pan. He is in the back, the producer of this wonderful program,

Danny Seguora. What's up, Danny? Yo, how's it going? How you feeling, bud? I'm good. I'm right. Yeah? Not bad. Sufficiently caffeinated, very high energy. Yes, very high energy, caffeinated. Did you... Sleep deprived, but, you know, still rolling. He was enjoying the club, bro.

I came from five states away, so... Hey, did you enjoy that main event as much as I did? Oh, yeah. And I agree 100%. There's nothing like high level of me. It feels different. It feels like a story. It feels like every move matters.

It was fun to watch. Favorite fight on the card was what? I'm going to go with Sehudo. Sehudo DJ. I don't know that it was the most entertaining, but it certainly had me at the most at the edge of my seat. Of course. I mean, the fight wasn't resolved till the very last round. Right, right. So it was drama all throughout. I know you got a bunch of calls you got to set up the show real quickly. How did you score that co-main event? Because later on in the way in, we're going to be getting to some of those details. 24-5, Suhudo. 2-4-5, Suhudo. Okay, calls are good today?

Calls are good. All right. I'm looking forward to it. So go get Sarah. We'll get her on the show. Sounds good. But I want to tease this a little bit later. Thank you, Daniel. We'll talk to you a little bit later. I want to tease this if I could. A little bit later on the show for The Way In, I'm going to be talking about that co-main event. Some of the lessons from watching the fight, some of the lessons from watching the reaction to the fight. So do me a favor. You can go to my Twitter feed at L. Thomas News. If you guys could put the lower third, that'd be great.

If not, it's not the end of the world. Yeah, there it is. You can see my Twitter handle right down there. Go check that out. There's a poll up there right now. And the question is real simple. How did you score the co-main event? DJ, So hoodo, or don't know, can see it either way.

I'm not going to tell you which one is wrong or right, at least not right now, but I want to take your temperature on this if I can. And be candid, there's really no, how do I say this exactly? I'll explain it later, but suffice to say, there's no real wrong answer, right? because I'm just asking how you felt about something. I'm not asking you to justify it and on what terms. And I realize that the poll is also not scientific. None of these Twitter polls ever are.

But sometimes they can be illuminating. All right. So go do that. Now, we have not a moment to waste. Let's get now to our Monday morning analyst segment right here on the MMA hour. Joining us via the magic of Skype, she is the Invictive Bantaway champion and just one hell of an analyst. I believe our first.

female guest as well. Sarah Kaufman joins us here on the show. Hi, Sarah. How are you? Hi. Good. I can't see you, but hopefully you can see me. I can see you and don't worry, you're not missing anything. Okay, great. Are you a big Batman fan? No. What's up with the Batman thing? Oh, I'm just at the gym and that is out of my coach. He's big into Batman and his son's big into Batman. Oh, I see. All right. Well, let's get to it. We've got some things I want to talk to you about what's next for you. But over the weekend, let's start with that main event and work our way backwards. Very simply, why did T.J. Dillishaw win on Saturday? What did you see? I think the biggest thing is T.J. was a little bit more patient. He threw a little bit straighter. He did still throw loopy punches, but he would step off to the outside, so especially when he was landing kind of like that right-hand. timed at the same time as as Cody when he'd step off, he'd throw his right hand and move his head offline to the left.

So when Cody would come back with that left hook, if his cross didn't land, T.J. would get there first, and I think that's what we saw. Were you surprised that this fight was actually shorter than the last one? I actually thought like any, either of them could win. It was going to be a matter of who would connect first. and I think we saw Cody connected first, but then as he ran in, he got clipped kind of like the first fight.

And I'm not really surprised that happened to the first round. I think it could have happened in the first. I think it could have happened in the third. But that scenario was going to play out for one of them within that fight. What do you make of the technical progression of T.J. Dillishaw? You know, in the first fight, there was a little bit more kicking involved. In fact, he got, Cody got dropped in the second round. with some kicking. This one, to me, he seemed much more comfortable in the pocket exchanging,

or is that just my imagination? He looked really comfortable. He looked really calm. And, you know, I don't know if that's who he was training with, his training partners, or just they had that feeling that this was how the fight was going to go and that Cody would come in, especially having being finished, you know, his first loss. He wanted to come back, you know, represent the team alpha male name, and I think really finished TJ. and that kind of angst and that anxiety showing in the fight, he just wanted to get it done. And I think that Cody rushed it a little bit,

and T.J. was just confident in being smooth, and being relaxed, and finding his moments. Exchanging in the pocket and being comfortable doing that, is that something you're born with, or can that be really developed over time? I think it can be developed a little bit, but you definitely, it needs to be worked on, but it's something you have or don't have.

Some people just naturally do not want to get hit. And while it can be learned slightly, you're going to have that previously. And so I think T.J., he's been in a lot of fights where he's being hit. I mean, we've seen the, what eye is it? His left eye on the screen, his right eye. You know, we see that kind of same marking happen a lot because I think he gets in those fights and he will get hit with that left hook a little bit and his eye will kind of start to swell. But in that he's had so many fights where this has been a thing

He's really comfortable getting into the firefight And he's gotten way better at it And you can see that in the moment he now has his eyes open As he's as I say when he's starting that right hand He's stepping offline and he's just really fluid in coming back with his returns You know what the only thing I didn't really understand was the ending sequence They both throw the right hand three times in a row but you can see each time TJ throws it,

he gets further and further off the line. And Cody didn't. I'm wondering, like, it's just confusing to watch. I'm not sure exactly what I'm asking other than to say. Don't you find that a little weird? I actually will use like a right hand twice in a row, three times in a row. Because sometimes when you're off on that line,

that's what's there to land. If their heads slightly to your right and your head slightly to their left, it's hard to throw that left hook sometimes. It's hard to throw that in. inverted jab or the regular jab because of where they are. So if they're off on this side of me, I can duck my head and throw the right hand with a little bit of a loop and it'll find their face.

And so to throw it twice and then step offline, throw it even three times and step offline. As long as your head is off to your left, you know that all they can throw is the same thing. And so it's a little bit of that chicken fight. And TJ just did it better than Cody did. How did you score the co-main event? I had it, well, I had it two to two with the second round, the deciding round. You know, I didn't know how they were scoring it.

I thought the judges would likely give it to Henry, give to Sudho, just based, not based on the takedown, but I think the striking was somewhat close. I had DJ winning, you know, more of the striking in that second round. those leg kicks were doing a lot of damage. I did think that Henry was starting to find this range a little bit. But then, you know, the takedown with the ability to control on the top, I don't think that a takedown wins around, but in a round where it is somewhat close,

I can see the judges going that way. And maybe that's a product of, you know, how our scoring is. But I did have Sehudo what I thought the judges would give winning the second round. Let's talk about those takedowns for just a second. They were really interesting. He was catching those inside trips very effectively off underhooks, even from overhooks. He would get a 50-50 and then he would find it. So I was really impressed by that. What do you make of the activity he did on top? Eventually, I think in the fourth or fifth round, I forget which one, he was credited by fight metric with a pass. Okay. But in the second round, there was no real pass.

So in your estimation, how valuable was that control on top? Well, it definitely is a effective. And when they talk about effective striking, effective grappling, being able to take someone down and control the fight and not let them up, that is effective. Now, is it trying to finish the fight? No, but we don't score a fight on trying to finish the fight. You know, if this was pride rules, if this was, you know, I think Risen uses the same rules. If you're scoring who tried to finish the fight, you would 100% give Demetrius that right. But being that he did get the takedown and Demetrius wasn't able to move, that is effective. It's not going to finish a fight, but it is effective in not allowing someone else to do something.

I see. In terms of what Demetrius was showing you with his striking, it was pretty effective. I agree. I scored it for Sohudo. Okay? I'll say that up front. But part of me wonders if the judges didn't really credit DJ's leg kicks all that much. How much do you think that's a problem, not really in this fight, but generally in MMA still, that you can do really nasty work on somebody, and you just don't know if they count that stuff?

I don't think that the judges score leg kicks as much as they do a strike to the face. I think one hard leg kick is so much more effective than even five kind of range-finding jabs, but something that hits the face is generally, well, what I would think is the judge. is generally would score that a lot higher than that solid leg kick that potentially changes how someone's moving, how someone's able to shoot in their speed. So I don't think that they score them that well. And I thought that Demetri did an amazing job. He attacked that leg, the inside of the leg, the outside of the leg, came up to the body. I also love that Suhudo later in the fight started landing some of his front kicks, but I don't think that they're scored as evenly as another effective strike or a takedown would, even though they can change the outcome of a fight.

Yeah, and your judgment, do MMA rules as they're currently, not written persons exactly, but enforced by judging, do they incentivize headhunting? I think they do because it comes down to, like, damage. One of the biggest criteria is effective striking and damage. And so I don't think that damage the legs is, it's a lot of damage to the legs. as noticeable for a lot of people as like a big black eye or a big cut or, you know, something like that would be. So I do think that it's definitely swayed towards, you know, elbows, knees to the face, kicks to the head, anything that really involves the head, or if you can hit them in the

body enough that they crumble, then of course that's good as well. But unless someone's falling over from the leg kicks, I don't think that they're always given as much value. even though they are doing, you know, really a lot of damage. What's the most painful shot you've ever absorbed in a fight? You know, I honestly don't think that I've ever really had a shot that I, that I had the feeling of like, oh, that was terrible, which is fortunate. In my very first fight, I got kneed right in the face. And I just remember thinking, I should probably not put my head there.

But it wasn't a shot where, you know, I don't think I've ever, my nose hasn't been crushed. I haven't broken really anything in my face. So I'm pretty fortunate in that sense, but I haven't had a big body shot land or a leg kick that crippled my leg. But I just mark up really easily. So, you know, there's that. That's all with some tradeoffs. Let's move ahead, looking to UFC 229. Connor McGregor and Habib Numer Gamedov are going to face off. This is the fight everyone's going to be talking about. You know this for the next nine weeks, maybe nine years, to be perfectly honest. So let's get an early preview.

What do you think the keys are to victory for both guys? I mean, it's a little bit easier to call that for Habib, given the narrow nature of his skill set. So let's start with Connor. What really do you see as absolutely critical in terms of the conditions he has to establish to win? Well, I think he's going to keep his stance long. And so I think he has to be ready for Khabi to really dive at his legs

because Kibib is fully willing. We've seen it in quite a few of his fights. he's willing to drop down, grab onto that ankle, and he's really good at holding onto it. So I think Connor has to be ready to stay low, get his body, move his feet. I don't think that he has to worry about Kubeeb striking, you know, how Khabib comes in with his chin up. But definitely, Connor's going to have to use his range, avoid his kicks, but he has that really hard cross. He has those heavy hands. So I think if he keeps that range and keeps peppering Khabib, I think that's kind of where he needs to stay, stay off the cage, keep his legs away from Khabi.

And really, of course, I mean, this is a stupid, obviously thing to say, but he really can't get stuck underneath Kibb because I don't think that he'll ever get up from that. Yeah, I don't think anyone in that lightweight division really can. I mean, we'll see about Tony Ferguson if they ever meet. But for the time being, it doesn't seem like it. You know, somebody asked me, oh, is it really important that Connor work on creating separation along the way? the fence if he gets pushed there. And I suppose the answer is yes, but in some ways, I wonder if the answer is no. Because

it seems to me, yes, you want to work on every scenario, but if Habib has got you in a 50-50 over under and you're against, your back is against the fence, it's a wrap for you, right? Yeah, I don't think that as soon as they're on the cage,

I mean, Conner's probably best bet is to try and land some body shots to try and to get something going there, maybe clear out, get some elbows, hope for cut, but I don't see that he'll be able to clear that space without getting taken down. And I do think that once it's on the ground, it's going to be a big problem for Connor. And given the ground and poundability of Khabib, his controlling style, once he's down, I think within three rounds, if he's down three rounds in a row, I think the fight would be

over. Who are you favoring early? And I give you permission to change your opinion later. Yeah. Yeah, you know, I think that Khabib definitely has the edge. Just because, I mean, we saw Edson Barbosa, he's not afraid to just walk straight in and almost run him down to try and get that, to get that takedown. That being said, Edson's game relies on distance and relies on kicking range. So Kibb was able to do that without being too worried about the hands, whereas I think he does have to be worried about Connor's ability and his power.

and Connor will take a shot and will and does take a shot he has that ability to to kind of eat those big punches to fire back so he could be definitely has to worry with that chin high I feel like that's a big concern you know no matter what he's clearly been working on it but in a fight his chin is up his hands are down I do think that Connor could get a knockout within you know one and a half rounds but I think likely competes going to be taking this fight within three or four. Before I let you go, let's talk about what's next for you. You last competed, of course, in May.

You won the Invicta Bansomweight Championship. So first of all, congratulations on that. Do you know what your next step is? I saw you wanted to fill in for Betch Kohia. It didn't go. Did the U.S. even respond to that? And if not, what's the next move for you? Yeah, I mean, I tried to step in and fight for Aldana.

My management team said that they weren't They weren't looking for a replacement for that fight. I had them contact them right away. Clearly, I wanted to be fighting. And then I almost was able to fight on the September card for Invicta as someone pulled out, but the other girl didn't accept the fight. So we're still in the situation of me trying to get any and every fight and all the girls at 135 saying no. you know, I don't know what else I can do at this point. I will, you know, I'll take a short notice

fight, you know, I'll book a fight, but the 135ers are not, they're just not saying yes. So, I don't think Invicta has anything at 135 for me. So I don't know, most of the last two girls, Tanya and Yana, have both come in to fight Cyborg at 145. So I mean, if that's my only option, you know, I'll take that fight. You know, I'll be the third Invicta bantam weight to come in and fight Chris if that's what needs to be done. And I'm confident in winning that fight. I like Chris. I think she's looked great in her last fights.

But I've always been confident that in that fight, that's a fight that I can win, especially with the right game plan. If that doesn't work out, I mean, you know, maybe I take the Invicta 145 vacant title. I fight for that and then become the first person Invicta, invicta, to have. have two different titles. You know, I don't know where I can go, but I'm willing to kind of go anywhere and everywhere to try and get myself fight and prove that I am the best in the world. And I think everyone knows that.

You know, the fans know, the media knows UFC, Invicta. You know, they know that I am in that top, top five at least, at Bantamweight, but these girls just don't want to fight me. Well, if you stay ready, I am confident that someone of your ability and stature in a sport will get an opportunity. You're on a great win streak, and I hope it continues. Sarah, thank you so much for your fantastic analysis and keep us posted on everything that happens with you. I hope something materializes soon. Thank you. Yeah, thanks so much. Great talking to you.

Likewise. Okay. We go from one great fighter to another. He is going to be taking on Nate Diaz and UFC 230 in what can only be described as a an absolutely monster, monster fight. But it came on the heels of a really weird press conference. The Diamond joins us now. Dustin Poirier. Dustin, how are you? Good.

What's going on, brother? Hey, man, it feels like I'm talking to you every week. I appreciate you making time for me. It's all good, man. Are you back home? Are you still on the West Coast? No, I'm in Louisiana. In Louisiana.

Okay. Well, let's start with what happened on Friday. what is your response to the craziness of that UFC presser? It didn't feel that crazy to me. It felt like a normal UFC press conference. Okay. You didn't, I mean, I guess you're not phased by Nate's, I don't know what you want to call it, objections to the way he's being promoted?

Bro, I'm just worried about myself. I'm not a phased by you, none of these guys. So, all right, you're confident that whatever his objection, this fight is not, it's going to go forward, no problem, right? I mean, as far as I know, I think I'm the one fighting the guy. If something changed, I think I would have let, they would let me know. I haven't heard anything. You know, Nate says a lot of stuff, but when he signs a fight contract,

I don't, you know, really know of any times that he's not shown up to fight or pulled out of a fight, you know. He says a lot of stuff and does a lot of stuff in the media in between fights, but when he signs a contract, it guy shows up and puts it all the lot. fine every time. Yeah, actually in his defense, what I would say is, I believe this is true. Neither Nick nor Nate have ever withdrawn from a fight due to injury, ever. Right, right. They've got a pretty good Sterling record in that regard. Did the UFC tell you what he was complaining about? Did it ever, like, do we ever figure

this out? I think what it was, is he was upset that he came down to do the press conference, and then they promoted Connor and Khabi, you know, and those guys aren't even there, and he was there. Like, I don't know. I think that's maybe more of what it was, like, you're wasting his time, promoting these other guys. Like, he's there on stage and ready to talk about his fight type thing. But I'm not 100%.

That's just hearsay, you know. Fair enough. All right, so I spoke to you after your fantastic win at UFC Calgary, and you had sort of laid out basically the scenario moving forward. One was title shot. Okay, well, now we know Habib's going to be fighting Connor. But the other one was, you know, only if something really big came around. Here you are, you know, a week since that conversation, because, yeah, we spoke last Tuesday almost.

And you took the fight. So in your mind, what was the, why did this get you to sign? What was so big about it? You know, Nate's probably putting the title aside, Nate's probably the second biggest fight that I can get. but you know it would be Connor would be the biggest fight obviously and then it's an idea who you know that in the lightweight division that's the biggest fight I can get right now then you know Nate's a guy I've always watched the fight I've been a fan of his for a long time

I've always wanted to fight him and Madison Square Garden is another part of it I've always wanted to fight it at a square garden so much history there you know I fought a lot of places that's that's one place I want to scratch up the list so this fight just made sense if the title fight was if the UFC told me that, yeah, you're going to fight for the belt in four months, I couldn't wait it four or five months. But the way it looks, you know, Connering the B, are going to fight towards the end of the year. Then I don't know what's going to happen, when the belt's going to be defended again. And you never know what's going to happen, man. So I don't want to wait 10 months. I want to stay busy. And this fight made a lot of sense

to me. Man, someone put this out on Twitter, this guy who goes, I don't know if you know him, Dustin, but he goes by the name of the Grubaka hitman, Coposa. You'll have faced, let me see if I got this right, Nate Diaz, Eddie Alvarez, and Justin Gachie in a six-month and 20-day span. When you think about it, that's kind of crazy, but it also might be one of the better runs outside of any kind of title defense of any fighter in the modern era, potentially, in that short amount of time. You know, when I beat Nadeez and it's my turn to fight for that belt, when I win that belt, when history looks back at all this, you know, nobody can ever say I didn't earn anything. I never took an easy route.

I've always fought the best guys. I've never pulled out of a fight. I've never missed weight. I've put it all on the line every time, win, lose, a draw. and that's what I want to be left behind in my legacy, you know, a guy who just pushed through it all and kept that and stayed true to the past. And this is all part of my legacy.

Do you know where this fight is going to be put on the card? This is the co-main event. Okay, so this is the co-made event. Interesting. And they've told you definitively, there's no way they're going to put an interim title to make it five rounds. For sure, it's only three.

I mean, that's, I didn't even think of it that way. I would love to do it for the interim belt. I would love to do it for five rounds. You know, that's what I said, the press conference. This is the main event fight. You know, if I don't finish Nate in three rounds, the fans are going to be upset. You know, we're going to want more action. We're going to want another two rounds.

But, yeah, this is a three-round fight. Okay. So let's talk about the fight itself. First things first, the Diaz brothers, as I mentioned, never pulled out due to injury. You know as well as I do. They always come prepared. They always come ready to fight. always come in excellent shape.

My only question would be, while Nate has certainly been training, he has not been actively competing. How much of a factor do you think that will be? You know, he's a veteran. Everybody's different, but most, you know, when you have as many fights as he has, as many fights as I have, you know how you need to feel. It's more about timing and rhythm. You know, a few sparring sessions, I'm sure he'll start to see that comeback if it's not

already there. He's in the gym always. He's competing in the gym. I'm sure he's doing jit-to all the time. Yeah. The competition and the damage you take and sparring and all this type of stuff, sometimes it's better for guys. You know, they feel better coming back after time off.

So everybody's different. It's tough to say anything about that. Yeah. All right. So in your mind, what are his biggest strengths? Obviously, his volume, his punching volume, conditioning, his lengths, his jihitsu. You know? It would be, in my judgment, it would be oversimplifying things to say you only need to worry about boxing because if, in fact, it does go to the ground, he is a formidable talent there.

But relative to, let's say, Eddie Alvarez, is it fair to say, while Nate is a very, very tough competitor, it's only three rounds and he just operates on a narrower skill set? He's very, very skilled in that space, but he's not really going to kickbox you, is he? right? So in that sense, is he slightly easier to prepare for? No, man, none of these guys are easy to prepare for. It's just a whole different thing. It's a whole different game plan. It's a whole different range. It's a Southpaw. Things line up differently. Yeah, no, no fights easier preparing for it than the other. These are just different preparations that go into these. Now, what's interesting is that you're going to be on this co-main of

event, right? If you win, you took this fight because why, it's, as you mentioned, Madison Square Garden. It's a huge name in the sport. Have they told you no matter what if you win this? Title shot is yours? I mean, I guess we can all rationally surmise that you would get it. But what I'm wondering is, has the UFC made any guarantees? No, nothing's guaranteed in this thing, in this MMA stuff that we do. But I could probably wait for it now, you know? If I really wanted to, I can sit out and wait, but that's just not how I roll. I want to stay busy. I want to keep beating the guys and keep building to my career. And yeah, that's what I want to do.

Where would Nate, excuse me, where would beating Nate Diaz, in your mind, be on your resume if you were ranking your best wins? Where would you put that one? You know, he's just another guy who's been around a long time, a legend of the sport. You know, beating him after I beat Eddie Alvarez. I'm going back to back on the guys who I think are,

some of the biggest names in lightweight history. So that's just solidifying me as being amongst those guys. You know, when it's all said and done, you know, when I get my title shot, when I get the belt, when like I said before, this is just all part of the legacy. This is, you know, part of the reason I fight. Let's talk about the fight that's going to be happening a month before that. It's now official. Connor taking on Habib.

We just had Sarah Kaufman on, and you know as well as I do. people are going to be talking about your fight, but of course, that one's going to be taking up a lot of oxygen as well. You have fought Connor, of course, at a different time in your life at 145. Early prediction for that fight, Connor versus Habib. I'm kind of leaning towards Kabib. I just don't know if he's going to stop Connor or whatnot,

but I'm thinking he's going to get the victory. So the one thing I'm trying to wrap my head around is I think we can all agree if Habib locks up with him, right? It's, okay, that's when it begins to tilt heavily in his face, How hard is it to be a sniper and then catch someone like Habib on the outside and put him away? Land punches, yes, but land like the devastating kind that change of fight. Like how much of a chance really does Connor have to do that? I mean, he has a huge chance.

He's got great timing. Great judge of distance. You know, we'll just see if the take down the fits holds up and the cardio holds up. That's all he has to do. I think the openings will be there. but he just has to stand the test of the wrestling and the conditioning, the physical part that he's going to put on early in the fight. Right, and so the same question would apply here.

Nate took all that time off. So did Connor. In fact, Connor still took the fight a year ago this month, but it was in boxing. So the ring rust questions, again, you think it boils down to this idea of, you know, some guys are just different, some guys can do it, some guys can't? Yeah, it's all like a mindset. really, once you get your rhythm down, your timing, everything else falls into place. By the way, you're going to be taking on Nate Diaz?

You ever had an opponent who is verbally, like, in your face in a fight before? I mean, I've had exchanges with guys and fights where we're both talking crap, but maybe not as much as this one as Nate has done in the past. What kind of things has an opponent said to you before? I don't know, man. But definitely, I've, you know, I've had some words with guys while we're fighting. Are you anticipating that being the case here? It seemed like, you know, it's interesting.

You and Nate are still, I think you're obviously much younger than he has, but you're still relatively youthful, both of you guys. But it seemed like you both had this, like, veteran respect of one another. I know you're going to be being prepared for every contingency, but do you get the sense that that'll be a component come fight night? We'll see, man. I think he knows what kind of fighter I am, and obviously I know what kind of fighter he is,

and we both know that each other are dangerous, and I think there's a level of respect there. What's interesting is, you know, you can only worry about the things you can control, but you are the guy, right, that pulled him out of his, what do you want to call it, hiatus, sabbatical, whatever.

Why do you think you were the guy? Like, what is it you think he saw in you, that made him want to hop out of taking time off? I don't really have a clue, man. It could be because I know he did, him and Eddie Alvarez had some, you know, a history of disliking each other for sure. I heard that they were, you know, about to get into it a few times,

and maybe since I beat Alvarez, and they just decided, you know, how this is the time, and this guy just beat somebody I want to beat up, so maybe it just lines up. I have no clue. Yeah, well, potentially, that's it as well. I don't know if you saw the news today.

George St. Pierre was in, I believe, in Australia, doing some kind of press tour. And he openly stated he would like to pretend, I mean, he doesn't think the UFC is going to give it to him, but that he would like to get the winner of Habib and Connor. What do you make of St. Pierre's interest in this, in this winter? Look, after I beat Neadez, I'm fighting for the belt. You know, or I'm fighting GSP.

but he's not going to get it before I do. So you'd be open to fighting him if that came to it, but there's no way in your mind he should be jumping to queue? Nah, it's not happening. I don't know, man. UFC's making some weird calls these days, you know? Yeah, we'll see about that. Hey, before you go, I appreciate your time here.

How is the charitable effort going back in Louisiana? I'm assuming that's partly while you're there in addition to seeing family. Last time we spoke, folks could still donate to the Good Fight. Is there an update on this? Yeah, you can donate at the Good Fight Group.com, but the auction ended today, and we sold the fight kit. So I'm really pumped about that, man. Backpacks are ordered.

All we have left to do is school supplies, backpacks are on their way. All we have left to do is lock down everything with the computers. But that's in the process. Now, are you going to be doing this for this upcoming UFC 233? fight as well? Of course. So this is a thing now for the rest of your career? Yeah, the rest of my fighting career and then beyond that.

Very good. As your profile raises, are you having more and more success attracting the kind of, what's the word I'm looking for, charitable contributions from outside parties? For sure. I got to say that just on donations alone, this fight and this fight camp has been the most traction we've got with a good fight. You know, we were able to buy a lot of stuff before we even sold the fight kit. We were able to order a lot of things. So it's all coming together, man. It's picking up steam.

And these fights keep getting bigger, so the platform keeps growing for me to raise money. And if folks want more information, where do they go? Thegoodfightgroup.com. Okay, the goodfightgroup.com. We'll be sure to tweet that out. Dustin, I really appreciate your time. I know you're going to be a busy man on Fight Week, but I'll just say it now. The studio here is in New York City.

So if and when you have an opportunity to stop by and say hello to us here in our studios, there's a warm seat for you whenever you're ready, okay? I appreciate it. I'll definitely do that, man. All right. Come on by any time and have fun in Louisiana. We'll talk to you soon. Thank you so much.

Thanks. Thank you. All right. I've been talking to Dustin Pariette, like every week for the last three weeks. I've got to give that guy a break, man. But we really appreciate his time. You know, on that last question, it was kind of interesting to me was about why Nate chose to come out of the sabbatical

or whatever you want to call it. I don't know. I haven't had a chance to talk to him. Right? So I'd be, as a matter of disclosure, I'd be merely speculating here. So, but let me attempt it for just a moment. I think Dustin was partly right that they were, I think he was kind of eyeballing. Nate Diaz was an opportunity to settle a score with Eddie Alvarez.

but Eddie Alvarez fell short. And I think a couple of things have happened. Number one, Dustin Parier has dramatically raised his profile. And number two, I think it's a very competitive fight. I think either guy can win. I think Dustin has more skills. And if he applies his full breadth and depth of skills, he should win. But Nate Diaz is tricky with the boxing and tricky on the ground,

sort of two of the very spaces that Dustin typically likes to operate. So that should be a very, very competitive and interesting contest, UFC 230. All right, not a moment's a waste. Let's get now to our guest all the way from New Zealand. He joins us via Skype. He takes on Derek Brunson on that same card we're talking about. The one and only stylebender is here. Israel, Adasania.

What's up, Israel? How are you? Good, brother. I know you got up ass early for this interview. So let me just start by saying thank you for making one hell of an effort to do this. What time is it there? It's just turned 440 miles. Alam just went on, so I just turned that off.

But this is part of the gig. Well, I really appreciate your commitment and your professionalism. So let me just start by saying that number one. Number two, boy, that presser was interesting, huh? Why is Derek Brunson so mad at you? I think the guy's already scared, man. Like, you see how he carries himself. The same energy he had on that stage.

It's funny enough, you need to have that same energy about 30 minutes ago at the hotel. he uh yeah he's just that kind of guy just because there's people around he wants to flex try to sell the fight writing all this dumb jokes oh you too skinny bro like bro this ain't crossfit like i'm not even skinny he's got his body on that call on that page yeah like a little suflare around his waist so yeah he's just he's already in his head he's in his feelings like fucking drake so hey another one all right so there's so much to unpack This is a crazy one because I get him calling you out, right?

That makes sense. I think we can all noodle that through. But you guys have just been like, say again? The UFC, he didn't call me out. The UFC made him call me out. He wouldn't even dare say my name. So he already signed that fight. And I felt like he's in a position that if he turned out a fight against me,

it would look bad on him. So they forced him to take that fight. So he wouldn't dare call me out by himself. And he's trying to make him. it like, oh, sign the contract. I like, bro, if I signed the contract two days ago, what are you on about? He acts like, let's say the WWE, you know, and I keep that same energy, but yeah, I think he's just, he's in over his head on this one, and he's just trying to make this, he's never

been in the fight. Like, he's had big profile fights, high profile fights, he fought Anderson Silver, but he hasn't been in the fight with anyone like me, so he's trying to, I think it's a new, new territory for him. What is your assessment about why the UFC wanted him to fight you? I don't know Well They see what I have to offer

They see what I bring to the table And on that fight in New York You know It's a tournament for what I'm hearing There's a lot of middleweight guys On that fight about eight of us I think so Yeah

I mean I got the easiest fight at all of them I am mad It's easy money All right So yeah As you mentioned Let's see

Let's go through the list right It's supposed to be Rockhold and Weidman on there You and Brunson on there Romero and Costa on there. I might even be forgetting about somebody else. I'm sure I am. But the UFC is telling...

Say again? Branch and Sousa as well. That's right. That's right. Jacques-Arey and David Brancher. You're right. So now you've got basically the elite absent the title fight

of the middleweight division. They've kind of told you that we're looking to sort this division and this card is going to be a big indicator about which way we're going to go? Well, from what I look. looks like it just looks like it's a eliminator for a title fight but

who knows I'm just like I said I really care about the belt I'm still getting paid you know yeah and I'm for an MSG before you know I look forward to it because I've heard about the state taxes over there but I can I can wear that

on so I can say I for the MSG yeah they are pretty significant here but you're right it's going to be a fairly epic night and card I've been to the other two MSG shows. They were, they were something else.

All right, let's talk a little bit about this fight. Say again? I said it's going to be historic. All right, let's talk about this fight. Derek Brunson,

in all seriousness, what challenges do you believe he presents? The biggest ones? Him falling into, like, a takedown. That's about it.

Bumrushing and falling into a takedown. And you've seen my last, like my first fight in the UFC, you've seen my last fight. How many times those guys tried to take me down? And they weren't bad grapplers. Brunson's not.

I don't know what his credentials are as a wrestler, like an All-American Division I or whatever, but regardless, my takedown defense is not something that he wants to mess with and my footwork. So I don't see anything else he brings to the table. He's just, I mean, you look, come on, look at his resume.

Even not just the guys he's fought. Look at his highlights. You know, he got knocked out by Jackaray twice. And Jackaray's got, like, some of the stiffest stand-up you can see. Even though they're hard, he's just stiffing the way he moves. So how the fuck is Bruns are going to hit me with some sloppy overhand right from all the way from 6 o'clock? Like, there's nothing the guy has to offer. You know, I'm the guy running the show for that night.

I was going to say, what do you make of his striking? I mean, come on. Just check my memes I'm made of him. And he even tried to retaliate with one of the triteiest memes, like, at 10. attempts ever and I'm sure someone else to help him do it. All he had on me was my only knockout loss. And the funny thing, like I said, is I had all of him looking good in my mean, all the good bits, his highlights, and he still looks shit.

So he has how many knockout losses and I haven't even compiled him together. So, I mean, come on, check the resume. Fuck stand up, fuck strait, grappling, just the way we fight, the skill set, the way we move. You can't even compare. It's just two different polar opposites. I'm on the other end of the spectrum, and he's in the... I don't know. I think it's just heavy.

Like, he's fat, and he's too big from the middleweight. So he's slow. He gets a couple first-run knockouts against punching bags. Guys who don't move. Guys who just stand there and just frozen. So, yeah, he's another one. You look at the guys who I fought before in the UFC who say some shit like this. Say, say, I'm all high.

Say, I haven't fought a guy like them. I just like, all right, same shit, different night. All right. What does a win over him get you? Win over him? What does it get me? It's another one. If I'm being honest,

I don't really think he's that big of a name as he tries to put it himself. I know. I mean, if you actually knows me, who knows him, and how long he's been in the UFC, I bet you I've got more, more, not just clout, I've got more followers, more of a name that he has.

I'm only in the UFC life, I think my seventh month in the UFC. So, yeah, I went over him. It's just a ranking thing. But at the end of the day, I said, fuck rankings. I'm just trying to get, you know, do all the killers of my era, you know. And I think, yeah, it doesn't really do anything for my career. Just another rank I beat. That's it.

You know, I have to say, I sort of admire the effort. Guys put out videos about you and you don't immediately respond. then you make your own video where there's highlights spliced in, there's a bunch of memes coming in, right? And then finally, by the time you put it out, it's this much, it's this grander production. Like, what is the thought process behind that to make, you know, less responsive, but a greater impact?

Like, what, you're, explain your love of memes. I don't know where it comes from, man. I think, memes, I think, it's like, it's changing the culture. You know, it's a means that, I don't know. It's one of those things like hyaligraphs for the Egyptians back in the day. You know, people are going to look back on this era and look at memes like something that shaped the culture. And it's a funny thing to say, boy, it is, you know, I've only just started to kind of dive into Reddit and see, like, the history, you know, because that's where everything kind of starts off apparently and then eventually ends up on the famous, you know, sites like Nyangay or whatever. But, yeah, I just, I saw what he did.

And I was like, he said, I'm going to say your name, boy. And he didn't even say my name. So that gave me the initial idea. And I was like, fuck, and I got stuck in it for about an hour and a bit. And I knew it was going to be fire. I mean, who else?

I'm changing the game in my own way. And he's even trying to copy me as well. Same thing at the bar in LA, a couple days ago. I see him. I embarrass him. He tries to do the same thing. He's not original.

He just tries to copy what I do. He's like, he's like Mr. Me Too. Who makes the video? You make them? You edit them? Facts. And I know his one, he doesn't make the videos. He's not even that smart. His video was shit.

He put up, like, pictures of me that I've already posted of me looking good. There's no comedic timing. There's no, you know, there's no flow to his shit. It was just chunky, like a style, like a style of fucking fighting. There's just all over the place that's shitty. Now, how did you two end up in the same hotel? I'm sorry, not hotel. The same restaurant at the same time in L.A.

What happened there? That was at the hotel. That was at the hotel where they put all the guys for the presser. So I seen him. He same thing, just kept on walking. And then eventually I saw him across the bar. And then he kind of caught my eye. I can't remember what happened.

He said something. And before you know what, I started filming and just, yeah, clown him. And yeah, I'm not forced. I'm not going to like whip his ass for free. can wait until November 3rd. I'm still going to get paid from knocking them out. All right.

Is it my understanding that you recently came to a new contract agreement with the UFC? I don't know. Is it? That's the rumor I've heard. I'd like to confirm it with you. I don't know. Allegedly. Allegedly.

That's my new favorite word. I can say whatever I want and just allegedly right behind it. So, I mean, all I'm going to say is allegedly. All right, let's say it's allegedly true. Yeah, I'm sitting pretty. Let's just put it that way. I'm in a good spot. I'm in a good position.

Nothing like Derek's ever been in. It seems like after your last fight, there are many corners to turn in someone's career. But that the UFC, I think they've always had faith in you, right? That's why they signed you. That's why they're promoting you. That's why you're fighting back to back like that. But it felt to me like something. something a little bit different happened after the last win, right?

Yeah, I shut everybody up. Everyone that thought, oh, my God, it's too soon. He's only had two fights in the UFC, you know, and they didn't do their homework. They didn't check the resume. They didn't look at the styles. They didn't look at the body type, the way I move, how the skinny boy works. So, yeah, I think I made a big statement in that last fight, even though, I mean, for me, everyone gets caught up in finishing people, you know, and I finish motherfucklers.

In my kickboxing career was the same thing. I went in the earlier part, not finishing people to like, so I kind of got used to my body, used to the way everything was set up. And I started to finish guys. And I had like a long streak of knockouts in a row. So, yeah, I'm only three fights in this UFC thing.

So eventually, Derek's going to be the first one on a long line of finishes. So even just that fight was a masterclass, the one with Brad, you know. He's a tough guy, a veteran. He's been around in a long time and I made him look like an amateur. So imagine what I'm going to do, Derek.

Are you going to be disappointed if you don't finish Derek? Nah, I want to punish him. I just don't think he's going to last. Like the way he, he might not last one around because of the way he fights. Even in that, press conference, if not for Dana White, if not for Dana White, he would have right into my whatever I wanted.

I had my, I already established my distance with my arm on his chest and he's already running forward with his chin up. Just that already tells me how he's going to approach this fight. You see me, I come through, collected,

boom, put my fist in his chest. So he's one of those guys who's going to do the exact same thing and fall on his own sword, or my sword, actually. The interesting part about your development, we actually just had Dustin Poirie on the show, and I was thinking about it.

You guys both told me something interesting after your last fights that were real similar. So he beat Eddie Alvarez, and he told me, you know, if a title shot or something big comes along the lines, I'll take it. But I want to take some time, put the ghee back on, and just work on my craft.

I recall in Vegas, after you beat Tavares, you were saying something similar, but then the UFC comes around and they got big opportunities for you. And, you know, you kind of got to ride the hot hand while you have it. Do you have any concerns, though, about not taking the amount of time off to just focus on your craft a little bit? That's what we're doing right now. I mean, I learn pretty quick. You know, I'm like, I'm a copycat ninja. If I see it, I can replicate it so fast and then start using it on certain people. as soon as possible.

But yeah, I took my time. You know, it's been, I fought on July 7th. So I'm taking it out of August right now. I'm still doing my thing. The fights all the way in November, I'll be in shape by the time I start camp. I start like the greedy stuff. So right now it's just me, relaxing,

working on certain things, healing my body and my mind. And this is nothing for me. I've told you guys before in 2016. I fought over 20 times. So even after I smoked there, in the first round. You know, Adelaide's on December 2nd

or December 1st, so I might look for someone else to help me get on that card because I used to fight on the local circuit in Adelaide. But yeah, Derek's easy work. So I don't mind taking a fight like this. You know, it's not even short notice,

but I don't mind taking a fight like this against him. I don't know if you saw, have you had a chance to watch Dana White's Tuesday Night Contender Series at all? A couple of them, not all of them, but I've seen in some highlights as well. So what about it? Did you see this kid, Sadiq Yusuf, who is American but of Nigerian ancestry, saying Nigerians are taking over?

I mean, you do the math here, right? I'm trying to think about what are the best competitors that I know of, and I certainly have some blind spots, but there's you, there's Kumar Uspo, and there's now Sadiq Yusuf, there's got to be a bunch of other guys. So here's my question to you. Is Nigeria the capital in Africa of MMA? right now I'm facts and I feel

I keep saying I'm the runt of my people you know I went back I'm going to go back again next year but when I went back I think three or four years ago just I was looking around at the kids playing and you know

just the people around some of these kids are just specimens man and they might not even come from the best well off family their nutrition might not be that well or that good but they're just specimens and I'm thinking man if someone just takes that football

ball out of your hand and puts you know teaches you out of box that you out of wrestle kids are freaks over there and I don't know what it is it's just the genetics so I'm the runs of my people and look where I'm at you look how far off come because I had to work you say oh you're so talented it's like I work to get to where I'm at and it didn't just come to me easy apart from the rhythm maybe and the and the way things flow but physically I had to work to where I'm at so eventually one day when I go back I might start recruiting and letting these kids know, hey, there's another avenue. That's why I haven't spoken to you about after my fight to let them know.

Me, Kamaru, you know, we're out here. And a lot of us are making splashes as well on the local scene. So eventually you start seeing more on Nigerians and kids from Africa in general running the UFC. Yeah, I mean, the way that Russia has been changing MMA is a function of the fact that, yes, MMA got popular there, but also these guys are being pulled and recruited to other teams across the world. and then they're essentially ambassadors for their country. Seems to be like if Nigeria had some kind of system like that or somebody was able to help them in that way, at least to the stage,

they're ready to make an impact fast. It's always like that there's waves. The Brazilians were on top at one point, Americans as well. Like a lot of the champions were Americans at one point. I feel like right now it's the Anzaks, the guys from Australia, Oceania, guys like me, Dan, Alex Volcanowski, we're slowly starting to let people know

that we're on our way. So eventually we've even got shooters in my gym over here that can beat guys like Bumson or anyone else in the UFC, but you guys just don't know them yet. And eventually you guys just start to realize and before you know it, it's too late, and it comes in waves.

It always comes in a ways, but right now it's our time. I'm looking forward to seeing. Before I let you go, I appreciate your time, let me just pick your brain about some of those other middleweight fights on that UFC 230 card you're going to be on. What do you make of the rematch

between Chris Wyman and Luke Rockhold. Let me see. Just don't throw any spinning back kicks for Chris Wyman. He might be all right. We go now to Jacques Ray and David Branch. Branch is a black bill on the hands all right?

Yes. I think so. I think if Branch just keeps his distance and doesn't make any mistakes, he should beat him. I don't know if you can finish him, but it should beat him. Interesting. And then you have Paulo Costa and

Yuel Romero, two athletic freaks. Call the golden snitch. See, everyone says this. What am I supposed to say? Romero has been looking this way since age 18. And Costa, certainly he looks like

he man, but he's being regularly tested by Usada. It's like, what are we supposed to say after that fact? Allegedly. Bringing the allegedly back. All right, man, well, look, I know it has been an early morning for you. I really appreciate it. Congrats on all your success.

I said the same thing to Dustin. I'll say it to you. When you get to New York, it's going to be cold in November, get a park up, but it'll be warm in here in the studio if you want to come by and say hi. We're ready for you anytime. I appreciate that, man. Thanks, Luke. But, hey, I already bought my fur coat when I was in the Bronx.

So when I come back to New York, I'm going to buy another one and make sure I'm toasty. Sounds good, my friend. get some sleep, good training. We appreciate your time today. Appreciate it. Shop, brother. Thank you. Yeah, there he goes. He is, it is never a dull moment with the style bender, huh? That is something.

All right, we appreciate all those people for stopping by. Now, normally we were going to schedule the show a little bit differently. We had to bump everyone up to the front hour because that was just the way things worked out. So we still have a lot to get to. 844-66-24-68. That's going to be the number for you guys to leave your call. We have the sound off coming up a little bit later. We've got some tweets we have to get to later.

But now, ladies and gentlemen, we have graphics for this. Yes, we do. Not only do we have graphics. We have audio components for the graphics. It is time now for me to weigh in. Huh? Look at that. Can we show the folks here on the other shot? Look at that, huh?

Yeah, pretty good. Pretty good. Thank you to everyone here at Vox. who'll help make that possible. I really appreciate it. It's a little too literal with the numbers, but I'm teasing. I'm actually, I love it. I think it's great. All right. So, for the way in today, what is my central point? My central point is as follows. There were, I asked folks to go to my Twitter feed at L. Thomas News and that there was a poll up. Let me pull the results of that poll up now. This was issued at 11 a.m. So it's been two hours. There's been about 2,300 votes or so. And the question was really simple.

Who do you think won? How did you score the co-made event? Did you score it for DJ at UFC 227? Did you score it for Sohudo or don't know either way? The answers are about what you would expect. About a quarter say, don't know either way. And then 37% for DJ, 39% for Sohudo. There are two main points to consider in the following statement. Henry Suhudo is the rightful winner of the co-main event at UFC 227.

And there are two components, as I mentioned, that buttrous and support that conclusion. Let's start with the first one, the overarching claim about judging. Now, if you scored it for Demetrius Johnson, depending on, of course, what your logic is, but can you cobble together a very convincing case in favor of him? The answer is, of course you can. Of course you can. It is not very difficult to do. So I don't mind if somebody did not score it for Henry Sohudo, but you might be saying, well, didn't you just say? that Sohudo's the rightful winner? Right.

And if Sohudo had won, excuse me, if Johnson had won, I might be making the exact same statement. And that sounds crazy. Right. That's the scoring criteria we have. Folks, if you ever followed my live chat or if you watch any of my post-fight specials that I do on on occasion, you have heard me rail on about this. And I shall continue it now, although I'll abbreviate it for expediency's sake for those who

have already heard it. But basically, our scoring criteria, Forget the way it's simply implemented, but certainly the criteria itself and the way in which rules are written and what they essentially value and don't, and the way in which we experientially enter into the world, it makes it possible that you can have not one but two different winners for the same round or the same fight. And understand what that means. People think if I can make a strong case for Johnson, that that invalidates a strong case for Sehudo. but that's not the case. They can both live in the same space at the same time. Think about it very easily. You watching on a high-deaf screen like this one, that's one way to experience the world. It's very, very different when you're a cage side. And remember, the judges don't sit together. One sits here, one sits across the cage and another one from a different position there. Experientially, you're in a different position, right? So you might see things right up close to you. I've called fights

on a much lower level. When the fights are right up front, you can see and feel. and hear everything, I actually end up giving up more weights to body shots as a consequence of what I saw there. But a lot of times, you might see guys on the other side of the cage and there might be grappling going on. You can't really tell what's happening. Maybe they use the monitors for instant replay. Maybe they don't, or not instant replay. I'm sorry, for live viewing to really get a better perspective, but maybe they don't, right? So that experientially changes the way in which you can experience and see something and understand what's really happening there. On top of that, there is other subjective criteria that come into play. Consciously or unconsciously,

you might value leg kicks or you might value certain kinds of leg kicks. You might value leg kicks in certain kinds of contexts or you don't. And maybe you're explicit with that bias or maybe you're not. On top of that, again, what did you hear from the crowd? All of that will weigh on top of you. And then more to the point, you can lay out what you believed is a clear and unequivocal definition of effective grappling or effective damage. But This is a fight that shows you that the definition of effective grappling, it might seem straightforward on paper. And certainly they have provided some degree of shape and parameters to help somewhat narrow the conversation. But it's not really, in the end, necessarily all that helpful to be perfectly honest with you.

There is a lot, a lot, a lot of gray area. A ton, in fact, a metric ton. and this is sort of my second point that I want to make here, because it fits into the first one. Now, we all think that effective grappling is a sufficiently well-known thing, right? In shorthand, without reading what the Unified Rules say, although I did go over them last night in preparation for today's show, you can say to yourself, well, what is it? All right, it's guard passing, right? We can all agree there. You get a takedown, and you start passing guard. First you go to half, then you go to side. Maybe you go to mount, maybe you take the back, something like that.

Maybe you go back and forth from side to side. Maybe you go knee on belly, but some kind of exercise of control from a dominant position. Yeah, that makes sense. And on top of that, what about effective ground and pound? Sure, pitter-patter punches aren't at nothing, but they don't count as much as a big smashing or slashing elbow, right? I think we can all agree with that.

They don't count as much as a knee to the ribs or something. These are all things that I don't deny count as effective damage in certain cases, and aforementioned previously, effective grappling. You are exercising a greater degree of control over somebody. You are exercising an advancing threat, right, when you pass the side control. As you do that, and then you land, let's say, a knee to the ribs, you're adding on to the damage. These are fairly straightforward things to understand, but this fight tells you that there is so much gray and so much room for subjective interpretation.

and at the highest level, when you're talking about elite fighters, so much matters in the tiny spaces. It's easy to grade a big-ass elbow that lands on someone's eye socket and crushes it a la Jeremy Stevens and Josh Emmett. Okay, yeah, that's clearly really impactful damage. But I saw people saying that Henry Suhudo had laid and prayed on Demetrius J. Johnson, couldn't be further from the truth. There is no truth to that at all, at all. And I even saw some people trying to advance stats about, well, how many guard passes did he really attempt and or

score in that time? How much, how much positional advancement was there? How much time was spent in static positions? This is a clear case where, look, I have been a major proponent of statistics in MMA, and I will continue to be. They are valuable. But here is a clear case. clear case where context matters. Let me ask a very simple and very basic yet revealing question. Was Henry Sohudo on top ever in any submission threat duress? Ever. At any point he was on top. Name one nanosecond, or that was true. One. Because I can't find it. He was not under any submission threat. And why is that the case? In order to be subject to a submission threat on top, to a degree, to a degree, the person on bottom has to consent to bottom position.

Right? If you want to launch a kumora underneath, you have to get on your side. You have to grab their wrist, no thumb. You have to grab your wrist, no thumb, although you can use thumbs if you have to. And you motorcycle grip it, and there's a lot of details that go involved. But I have consented to being on the bottom. Now, there's actually back takes from, from Kumora underneath. You actually let somebody pass to the same side, and you use the spinning motions of your arm and your wrist to then spin around to the back.

It's a Kenan-Cornelia special, although everyone does it now. So, yes, it's not that you're necessarily consenting to staying on bottom, but for a moment in time, you are on the bottom. Think about an arm bar or a triangle from your guard. You have to now, you want to have a nice tight core. You might have to let your hips go off the ground. You might have to pull them into you. You might have to push and pull with risk control. You might have to grab a collar tie.

You might have an overhook. Lots of different setups there. But for a moment in time, you are doing that. Now, it might also be the case that you are launching a submission attempt as a means of forcing them to escape so that you can stand up. But for a moment in time, you have to consent to some degree of bottom position. If you want to launch an Omoplata, to a certain extent, you have to consent to being on the bottom. Could be for five minutes. It could be for five seconds. It could be for two seconds, half a second. But there is some degree of consent there. Very little, almost none of what Demetrius

Johnson was doing on bottom was consenting to bottom position. He was looking to stand basically the entire time. And two times, he didn't even have to worry about that because he hit fantastic Granby rolls in transition and nearly took Henry Suhudo's back in one of them, although credit to Sohudo for himself for scrambling out. But perfect. I mean, that was genius. And there was a moment in time where Demetrius was consenting to bottom position in one of the takedown scenarios merely to offer up a moment for him to get risk control, feed on the hips,

to create separation and stand. Right? He wasn't trying to just berserk his way to the top. But this is my point. If you've never, and look, folks, I will say it now. I will say it forever. I am not an expert. You should listen to the real experts for the real sophisticated insight.

But what I'm about to say, I believe to be incontestably true no matter what one's degree of expertise actually is. Namely, if you are struggling on top to keep someone down underneath you, a grown man who knows how to get up, you cannot allow for major windows of space in which to posture up and control and then land ground and pound. Think about Eddie Alvarez against Dustin Poirier against the fence. Why did he throw that elbow?

I said it on this show and he said it himself. He was in such tight, narrow spaces that if he tried to pull back to throw a shot, it would open up space and then up Dustin Poirier goes. He had to keep it nice and locked. Now, he threw a shot you can't throw, but in that space, what are you going to do? You're going to do this?

There's nothing there, right? So he was trying to think of the most devastating shot he could throw in a narrow, tight, and confined space. To me, lay and pray is if I take you down or somehow we end up on the bottom, and you consent to bottom position, and you don't really do a whole lot in terms of defending yourself

other than maybe a little bit of a collar tie and an overhook, and I don't really do a whole lot to pass. That's one thing. But Henry Sohuto had to struggle like crazy to keep Demetrius Johnson down. Go back and watch. He did the Obraleo Estima special.

You've got to get their elbows off the middle, Matt. He digs an underhook on one side, right? And he digs an underhook, or I should say, against the fence, a cross face on the other. Palm down across the cross face. If this is the head like this, and he's going to lean into it. Why? If I can control your hips and your and your spine at both the hips and at the collar and at the neck, it really impacts your ability to move. Now, it impacts my ability too, which is why you see him let go for a second, throw some body shots and then re-scoop the elbow, and then he tries to throw a headshot, and then he re-establishes the cross-face. Yo, you have to do that, or the position goes away. Now, I'm not telling you that

that's as good as a slashing elbow, and I'm not telling you that that is as good as a guard pass. It's not. It's not. It's clearly not. However, here's what it is. If I'm not consenting to bottom position and you are forcing me to be down there. And the instant any space is created, you are round over round firing to your feet. My ability to control you on the bottom to put you in a place where quite literally you have zero offense. It's not that I have overwhelming offense myself, but I have just enough control to totally neutralize you. But here's the key. I'm wearing you out physically, and I am landing small intermittent shots. Ladies and gentlemen, that is not lay and pray.

There are guys who underneath are so talented, you can feel it. They get on their side, they get a Z guard, or they get a knee shield, and they're gone, dude. Or you get other kinds. Well, if they get an underhook, they're gone. Or if they can scoop the far side leg and they do deep half, they're gone. You have to lay these people flat, and that is hard to do. Go back and watch how Henry Suhudo struggles with his outside leg. He has one leg scooping on top for the half guard, and the outside leg is struggling to find the right balance.

Where do I put this leg so I don't get rolled? Where do I put this leg so I put maximum hip pressure down? Where do I put this leg so I can control yours from moving? And it's a hard decision to make in real time. That is a skill. That is not an obvious thing. If you don't believe me, there are so many jujitsu gyms right out there in your city. Many of them let you train for free for 30 days a week.

Pay a mat fee for crying out loud and go find somebody who's black belt level, because that's what you're dealing with here, who wrestled at any kind of a level because that's what you're dealing with here, and try to hold them down. Right? They are not consenting to bottom position. Their whole objective is to stand. They are showing that with you by the second.

they can even get on a side, the second they can even get an elbow, and then a hand, and then their hips back, and an underhook, they're gone. Folks, to be held down in that scenario is very difficult to do. So I'm not here to tell you that slashing elbows aren't a better gauge of top control and damage and guard passing and all that. All the traditional hallmarks of what we know to be guard, of dominant top control and effective grappling. all that's true.

But if I take you down and I hold you down and I put you in a position where now you are carrying my weight, I am at least to some degree taxing your cardiovascular resources. I am controlling you physically on the bottom. I am landing small but intermittent shots. I'm winning. I'm winning.

And by the way, the more of that that happens, I'm putting myself in a position to accrue points and to at least put the fight in a closer range that speaks to my offensive opportunities and a better position for me. Who would you rather have been in that scenario? Henry or Demetrius? Trust me, you would rather have been Henry.

I'm not saying Demetrius had the shit beaten out of them. That's not what I'm saying. But I am saying of the two who got taxed, who spent more resources in that position? 1,000% Demetrius Johnson. By nature of the cause, if you get taken down and stretched flat to stand back up is way more tax.

taxing, then hitting a cross face, scooping it, and then driving an underhook with some kind of trail figure four back there that he kind of had with his legs. Much, much, much harder. And that he even had in additional elbows in the fifth round, or maybe it was the fourth, and then occasionally had a big punch here or there. Easy, easy, easy call. The only things that matter in effective grappling are not just big elbows and big punches for damage or garbage.

guard passing or getting out or getting back. Yes, those are the most valuable. But in a fight against the pound-for-pound best fighter of the last how many years? The margins matter. The tiny little margins matter. It is not lay and pray, not at all. That is such a disservice to the skill shown and the will, the battle of wills shown by Henry Sohudo, to lay a guy like that flat over time to wear his physical resources out. It is totally unfair. So if you want to count a guard pass more, I'm not here to talk you out of it. If you want to count, taking aback more, I'm not here to talk you out of it. But go back and look at all of the races. Usain Bolt has won. Sometimes he's lapping these people like he's superhuman,

and sometimes it comes down to a tenth of a tenth of a tenth of a second. Just a little bit of a photo-finished difference. That is what you saw here. That is what you saw here. Maybe it just comes down to the slightest degree of difference, but it's not lay and pray. And now, if you incorporate all of that back into the reality that we currently live in, namely that you have criteria where that kind of gray exists,

and those kinds of margins matter. And now I have my own as a judge biases, whether or not I am conscious of those or not. I have my own physical, experiential situation where some things are going to be more impactful to me than others. I'm going to hear certain things better. I'm going to see certain things better. but there are going to be some things I don't see very well at all, or hear very well at all, or frankly, even understand very well at all.

Can you cobble together and make a strong case for Demetrius Johnson? Yes. Can you do the same for Henry Suhudo? Yes. And in a scoring criteria where you can make a strong case for both participants, you are talking about a scoring criteria, or in the end, if one guy narrowly edges the other in a very, very close context, You just can't get upset.

Yes, if you're a fan of Demetrius, you can be sad for it or, oh, that sucks. That's not the outcome that you wanted. I get it. That's okay. That's what being a fan's all about. But you also have to come to a recognition that those little margins I'm talking about with all of the other ambiguity that exists. Folks, what happened on Saturday is no robbery.

It is no travesty. There is, frankly, very little of that, if nothing, that is controversial. other than the disrespect being shown to the skills of Henry Sehudo to do what he did. Did you disagree? Okay, that's America. Disagree. But don't you dare say that was lay and pray. That was skill, and he earned that, and you should recognize that fact.

Time now. Let's do some tweets. All right, Danny, where are you out, buddy? Let's see if we can get this going here. Yes? Yep. Am I wrong? Am I right?

What do you think? I think you're right, yeah. He said two four and five for Sohudo, yeah? Yeah, two four and five for Sehudo. Now, is that your Latin American bias shining through? No, no, not at all. I'm a big fan of Demetri's. I think he's great.

Who's not? I do wonder, and I think this has seen in this argument has come up in other title fight specifically George St. Pierre versus Johnny Hendricks is because we expect the champion, in this case, Demetra's Johnson, to do so well that any little success that Henry Sehudo has is that. Do we make a bigger deal than what it is? To me, that's not, it's hard to say. To me, that's not the best criticism.

I think if somebody said, well, how did the injuries impact Demetrius' performance? I am open to that argument. I am very much a believer that those kinds of things matter a whole lot more than some observers want it to say. Did you see that picture of his foot? I think Chumacharsandu took it from his Instagram. feed. Bro, his foot looked like. You ever see that, do you ever see a big trouble in Little China? I've seen only, but I vaguely remember. So there's that one dude who could blow himself up. Do you remember that? Yeah, yeah. And he just explodes. Yeah, yeah. Imagine that dude's foot. That's what

Demetrius Johnson's foot looked like today. So to me, it's like, dude, if you tore a ligament in your knee and your foot is broken, that didn't impact your performance? Especially someone like Demetrius who relies on movement a lot. 100%. Yeah. Again, and when his speed fades, it's going to be a problem for him, but I thought he was very quick on Saturday night, and I thought he was very nimble. The only thing I would say in his defense was, I thought that Henry had a clearer and more obvious game plan. Does that make sense? Yeah. I was watching the fight again today, and it looked to me like one guy was trying to do something, clear, objective, traceable. And Demetrius was doing a lot of things, but I didn't see it, I didn't see an aim or a purpose there.

and so I wonder in a rematch, or I should say a rubber match at this point, if healthy and with a clear purpose in mind, things might go a little bit better for him. You're interested, by the way, and I'm sure we're going to get to this a little bit later, but you're interested in seeing a rubber match between these two. I don't know how you do that. Yeah, you have to do it. But yeah, that is an interesting point. And now that you mention it, it is true. It didn't seem like, okay, like he studied and he's like, okay, I got to do this specifically and I can catch Suhudo with this. DJ just looked like he was fighting.

He was just reacting. He was just fighting, yeah. And just going with the flow while Sehudo, he knew the inside trip was there. He knew certain ties were there, snapping him down. He knew what he was doing. All right. And like I said, if you look at it's an obvious example, like who fights with a purpose? It's an exaggerated example.

He'll be even number of him fights with a purpose. Boy, he goes in there, you know exactly what he's trying to do. I didn't get a good read on what DJ was trying to do. So something to keep in mind for the future. All right, give me five seconds on the clock. Let me do some of these tweets. minutes. Five minutes.

What I'm saying? Hey, and last time you slacked, you finished, the buzzer went off, and you were still rambling. You got to get these out. All right, man. I'll keep it tight. Keep me honest. Keep me honest. All right.

Let's put these, uh, the thing on the clock and we shall get these going, all right? Let me know. Ready? Okay. When the first tweet goes up, hit the clock. Here we go. Uh, question right here, Danny. Are the UFC is the UFC happier with Suhudo being champion instead of DJ.

And in a similar way, where are UFC pulling for Cody over TJ considering the union and also the fact that he's a CAA client. Thanks, Danny. Yes. In fact, TJ is a CAA client, and I do believe that Cody has a WME promotional deal, so I do think that impacted his ability to get a rematch and why they wanted him to win. Now, I'm sure they're happy with TJ, but yes, they're able to have contracts where they're going to probably give some favorable to, and you can understand why they would sign him in that way, but there probably has some truth to that.

Are they happier with Sehudo beating DJ? I think they're happy with the fact that there's a bit of rivalry now. We'll see if Sehudo can hold on to it. Remember, these titles are fleeting guys get titles, and then they lose them, and he was already calling out a guy in a different way. class, so we'll see, but I think they're happy that there's some kind of action happening inside that space next. Okay, how does an 11-time champ lose on points for takedowns, especially when the takedowns didn't amount to anything? Well, I don't think he lost strictly on takedowns. There's a question

of to what extent he lost in the striking battle in various rounds. Remember, if it's not scored as a whole, it's scored round by rounds. And I would even agree that you can make a pretty strong argument for Demetrius getting the better of the striking, especially with those leg kicks. I don't know how much the judges counted those. But as I have explained, number one, putting someone down with a takedown matters, although how much in the end, not necessarily a whole lot. But if I've got a fair degree of riding time controlling you as you are actively making it a wrestling match by resisting and you have no offense in that space and I have nothing but offense in that space, sorry, the idea that you're calling that nothing is not true. How much weight you want to give to

it beyond calling it nothing, fine. We can have that debate. Maybe you're don't give it that much weight, but you do have to give it some. It does actually matter. And if you're just going to say it doesn't count for anything, you are excluded from the conversation next. Zero problem with a decision, not a robbery, but do you think Mighty Mouse may have partially lost to himself this weekend? With the judges scoring this fight against his past performances, no. If he wasn't dominating, he was losing, no. But as I do mention to Danny, when I looked at him, everything he does is slick and smart and he's just good everywhere. Like I didn't look at Demetrius and go, oh, that was a bad performance.

But I wonder what the game plan was. And if the game plan was, well, and often it can be in combat sports, you hear it all the time, take what they give you, take what they give you, take what they give you. Okay. But maybe he got surprised if that was the case. And I don't know. It just didn't seem clear to me what he was actively trying to do other than with some of those scrambles and be on the ground pop back up, which he did a really good job.

in certain respects, but it just seemed a little directionless as a game plan. I could be wrong about that. I can only speak for what I saw, not what I know. I wonder if the third fight might be a little bit different. Next. Is Luke going to forget the stands for Caesar and Rory again? Yes, as a matter of fact, I did. Yet another goddamn week where I forgot the stands for both Caesar and Rory. Although, if you go to my Instagram page, Luke Thomas News, you can see it out Here we go. Here's Caesar. I took a picture and a video. So if you go to my Instagram page, you can see it as promised. I'm a dumbass, which you already knew. Next. DJ didn't demand a rematch in the octagon following his loss. You mean a rubber match,

but I know what you mean. Did he ruin his chances of getting one by not doing so in front of the crowd with that many watching on pay-per-view? I think he probably felt like he was injured and calling for one right then. Just didn't seem all that prudent. Get healthy. Maybe he's burned out. That could be another thing too. He's beating all these guys. the time. Remember what he was saying before the fight? MMA is only 20% of my life. The rest of my life is my kids and my wife and my house and everything, which I can understand, right? It makes total sense. But if that's the case, you know, where is he had mentally? Maybe he even wants a break. Maybe he even wants a hoodo to go and fight somebody else. So I would say if he felt banged up and

he knew something was wrong, not asking for one as a big deal. But he can always come on shows like this one or other shows and he can demand a rematch and it'll make big news and it'll start a conversation and he'll be off to the races next. Connor will undoubtedly be a huge pay-per-view draw, but is the UFC potentially missing out on the biggest possible numbers by not sending these two to Ireland and Russia to do press tours? Let's see in the end what they come up with, but the question is, if you're selling a fight on pay-per-view,

why do you need to go to Russia? Now, maybe you can go to Ireland because you're trying to still curry favor in that market, and they are in Russia as well, but that's a far trip for these people to make. Ireland's right across the pond. They're going to be fighting in Las Vegas. It's not very far from right now. That's a lot of travel in a short window.

And on top of that, we're not talking about pay-per-view buying customers for the most part. So it makes no sense. Next. Who are some of your favorite fighters who have a low fight-finish percentage? Who are some of your favorite fighters

who have a low fight-finish percentage? John Fitch for a time, I thought was pretty good in that regard. You know, Adasania hasn't finished his last couple of guys, but it's certainly one of my favorites. So, now there you go. How'd I do, Danny? I'd do better this time?

You did, you did. All right in the buzzet. All right. Good stuff. Without a moment to waste. Now, ladies and gentlemen, this is where you become a guest on the show. It is time for the sound off.

All right. Time for the sound off here. Look at these new graphics that we have, huh? Look at that. Looks great. I love it. Where you at, Danny? There we are.

You don't like the new? I like them. They're sick. They're pretty good. By the way, the Adasanya Brunson fight, are you not hype for that one, bro? I am super hype. I cannot.

That whole card. I love when the UFC does these themes, like middleweight, heavyweight. This is amazing. Yeah, a few years ago, they did that all main heavyweight card. Yep. And I don't know where all these other middleweight fights are going to go. I really hope they put Adasania on the main card. I'm saying that selfishly, but if you're trying to promote a guy and...

He needs to open the main car. Right. He needs to be on the most visible part of that call. By the card. And by the way, I'm interested... Remember, they did. three title fights for like what, both of those MSG cards, if I'm not mistaken.

And they're going to have, you're going to have Diaz and Parier as your comane. So that means you can only really be doing one title fight above that, right? Which one? Right, yeah, yeah. Just get Brock out of the Ussada testing pool. Or just throw another interim belt, right?

Something like that. All right. So we have calls first, do we not? Yes, we do. All right. You said they were good, yes? They were good, yeah. I would, I was surprised.

actually, I think we had more tweets submissions than calls, which is usually surprising. It's usually the other way around. But they were still pretty good. You know, here's the thing. We appreciate all the tweets. The calls require a greater degree of effort. And I feel like our audience as mouth breathers,

which I accept as a mouth breather, they're just a little lazy. And they don't want to pick up the phone. Boys, girls, pick up the phone, 844-866-24-68. Call, leave a message. We will play your shit on the air. All right. All right.

Let's get started. First question. Obviously, leaving UFC 227. Hey, this is Brandon Quintano from Rosemite, California. How has your morning been so far, Luke? Cool. Anyway, T.J. and Suhudo have both mentioned moving up and downway classes to fight the next champion over.

T.J. wants to move down. Zahudo wants to move up. But what is best for business? One could argue T.J.'s bit of star power could shine some light onto the flyweight division and on the other side of the coin, so Houda moving up in weight and fighting the bigger man could bring some legitimacy to the flyweight division. Give us your thoughts.

Thank you. By the way, we had this debate on the MMA beat last week about what was the best fight to make, T.J. DJ, D.J. at 135 at 125. I believe firmly I won that debate. That is not a fight you can make at 135. That is a much more interesting fight at 125. What say you, Danny Segura?

Is there? Is that really a super fight anymore? I'm not making that claim. What's a better physical fight? What I mean by that is which one's more competitive? Which is more competitive? I would say competitive-wise, I think, you know, if TJ drops to 125. That is the correct answer, Danny Seguro. It's not the correct answer.

It's my opinion, right? But as far as maybe what performance, performance-wise, what's the highest level of fight, it might be a 135 because I'm telling you, like, TJ might make one-one. 125, but I think that's going to have to come with some sort of repercussions on his performance. So if you want to see both guys at their top and Harry Sun Hoot is not a small flight weight, I think 135 is where we get the best fight. All right. Now, to answer the question, though, I was glad to see Dana White say, yeah, let's cool it with the superfights.

I am so happy to hear that. And frankly, it couldn't happen at a better time. I don't want to see TJ go down. I don't want to see DJ go up. I don't want to see Henry go up. You have clear order of business in both of these weight classes. You need to do a rubber match between DJ and Henry, for sure, and TJ has Marloraich to worry about. He's got out there somewhere, Dominic Cruz, to worry about.

He's on a quest to be the unequivocal best bansom weight ever. And I don't know if you agree if he's there. I think he's on his way, certainly, but he's got some work left to do inside their divisions. No need to mess with the formula that's already working. Yeah, I agree 100%. I do think Dill Shah isn't the conversation, but he's got tons of work to do. I don't think he's the guy at Bantamway. It's like, he's definitely a leading contender,

but no one has, like, set themselves away from the pack just yet. No, I think Dominic Cruz owns that title. You think so? Oh, yeah, because, like, don't forget about this. The guy fought in WC, but what was WEC? WEC was basically the UFC, because all they did was bring that division over. So all those title defenses were against legit guys, UFC caliber guys.

How long did he hold the title for? I don't know, like a few years, right? He probably defended it. Not counting the injury time because that's, you know, Or I'll spot him a year of injury time, but then after that's it. And let's not even count length. Let's title defense numbers. I can't remember out of the top of my head, but it's got to be like five or six, right?

Yeah, it's at least that. I'm going to pull it up right now, actually. Yeah, and nobody has able to hold that title. So I think Dominic Cruz by far. And let's be honest, Dominic Cruz at one point, dude, he wasn't the top of the world. I think he's still very game, but I think his better days are probably behind him. So you've got to consider that. And plus, Dominic Cruz has a win over T.J.

So how can you not make the argument that Dominic Cruz is the best band? Because if you want, you can play MMA math and if you want, which I'm not going to do, but if you want you play MMA math, and you can say, wow, look how well Cody did against Dominic. That's true. But that was an older Dominic Cruz after a lot of injures. That's your point. We're talking about a Dominic Cruz with tons of title defenses and a win over the guy who we're talking about of being, you know, the goad at ban. This is his title campaign started in 2010 at WEC 47.

He beat Brian Bowles, Joseph Benavides, Scott. Jorgensen, Uriah Fabor, Demetrius Johnson, Takea Mizugaki, there's a three-year absence in there. Crazy, right? Then a two-year absence, and he beats T.J. Dillashaw, although it was controversial, but he did beat him. And then he beat Yerai Fabor in a rematch in 2016. And then after that, he lost to Cody Garbrandt in 2016, hasn't fought since then. So that's a hell of a run as champion. I would agree his run there is pretty exceptional.

But T.J. is knocking on the door. Yeah, he is. And now he's got the bill. He's just got to put in the work, and he can definitely surpass that. And hey, you beat Cruz in a rematch, you beat Maraishe, conversation gets a lot different. Yep, I agree. Next.

Cool, let's move on. Now, let's talk about Henry Sehudo. Okay. Hello, my name is J.R. the Irish Mexican, and I'm calling from Central California. And my question is, no one is more deserving of an immediate rematch than Demetri Johnson. So it is apparent injuries to the UFC and the new

flyweight champion Henry Sehudo wait for Demetrius to heal, or should Henry Sehudo defend this title or move up to 135 and fight T.J. Dilleshaw. Thank you and enjoy the show. Have a great date. Great call. Really appreciate it. Very good call.

I got to be honest. I know Henry called out T.J. Couldn't be less interested in that fight. I'm sorry. The gap in physicality between flyweight and bansomweight to me is very significant. These guys at bansomweight, yo, they knock each other's blocks off. and they don't really, nearly to the same extent, at 125. You can say, well, what's the 10 pounds between flyweight and bansom weight?

It's just another 10 pounds between bansom weight and featherweight. It's not the same 10 pounds, man. That's a much, much longer 10 pounds between 125 and 135 and 135. I think those guys are hit hard. I think they're fast, maybe not as fast, but pretty goddamn fast. And the physicality is just way more apparent. Again, I'll say the thousand times you can make it to be a wrestling issue. I sat right there when Dominic Cruz wrestled Demetrius Johnson in the water,

Washington, D.C. And just he couldn't do anything about it. If Henry Sehudo can do that, these guys want to wrestle him. They're going to have a lot more success. Forget about the knockout power. But the question is, Danny, I'd be curious to get your response on this,

is the one he had. What about the injuries? Because now, here's the thing. To me, the most exciting flyweight fight you can make right now, assuming everyone was healthy, which they're not, but let's say they were, is DJ Henry 3. But what if you don't book that, and then you book Henry against another flyweight,

and he loses. Now you've lost the rubber match, and it's a giant mess. So play matchmaker for a second. I don't think the rubber match is lost. I think you could do that at any point. I think Demetri's Johnson is super deserving for that immediate rematch.

If he wants it and if he's healthy, he should get it. Now, if he wants to take some time off or he's injured and he has to take time off, the bell has to be defended. I'm not interested in seeing Henry Sehudo go up to 135. So that's out of the question. So I think he should defend it.

Who's at the top right now of the flyway division? Sergio Pettus. Didn't they fight recently? Yeah. Yeah. I believe Henry beat him. He did, yeah. So you could do a rematch there.

And then you have Benavides below that. Now remember, Benavides holds a very controversial win over him, which I didn't think he deserved, although I admit it was close. But Sehudo has since the Benavides lost, beat Hayes, Pettis, and of course, Demetris Johnson. What's a hell of a run he was on. Good Lord. He's only two losses are to Johnson and Benavitas. but Benavita has looked a little bit lackluster in his last fight. I guess against Sergio Pettis as well, right?

Is that who I'm thinking of? Yeah, Sergio back in a UFC 225. So to me, I guess you can go that direction, or if I'm Henry, I'm going to wait. I'm going to wait a little bit. Let's see how long DJ is going to be out. Yeah. Yeah, well, first of all, that's what we've got to find out, right? But let's say he's out for a while.

Look, keep the title defenses rolling. Like, this is one of the biggest issues, and this is why we have so many in-term titles and so many things come up. just keep it going even if it's not the sexiest fight even if you know the guy's not a serious threat to the title just keep it going that's the way it's supposed to be a champion is supposed to defend his title against the number one contender whether it's a huge fight or not that's the way it's supposed to be so just keep it going let's just see let's just hope DJ is healthy enough yeah soon enough and then we'll go from there yeah next sure hey now I don't really like

featuring the same collars all the time I think I like to give a chance to new guys but sexy Steve is back and he's sexier than I don't we don't we have no proof that Steve is in any way sexy. Well, I'm kind of being sarcastic. It could be psycho, Steve. Insale Steve. You'll see. This thing will give you nightmares. You ready? Oh, God. Hello.

Happy Monday, Danny. And, Lucie. This is sexy Steve again from Michigan. And my question is simply since T.J. Beat Cody twice now.

Be a knockout both times. is Dominic Cruz next for T.J. to get his butt kicked by again or should down fight someone like a Raphael of Sonsa? Or is Marlon Marais next? Diamond Cruz or Marlon?

All right, I'm going to cut it right there because then it gets a little creepy and I don't want to scare of our audience. It doesn't get creepy. It started creepy. It started. Oh, no, it can get a lot creepier. It can. Trust me. I screen this voice calls. I listen to a lot. A lot of creepy shit, Luke.

Well, you know what? That's why you make the big bucks around here, Danny. Right, right, right, yeah, yeah. All right, well, thanks to Psycho, Insell, Steve. Neither here nor there. All right. So what's next for T.J.? I think you got to do Marlon Marais' title shot.

I really do. I realize he had lost a Sunsau, but a Sunsau, to me, had a couple chances against T.J., and you could say, oh, well, they're one and one. but in the rematch at 200, I thought he just got outclassed, to be perfectly honest with you.

I think T.J. is putting some distance between himself. Why are you going to do a third fight against a guy? And I realize that he beat Maraishe, although even that one was close. But the Maraisch fight, I'm sorry, dude. That guy is all firepower, all skill all the time. Let's have a really interesting Bansomweight fight. Like Bansomweight is hot.

Why would we go and just do another one that we've already done a couple of times? And, yeah, it'd be fine, it'd be a fine fight. Maura Rice is a fun contender. He's an interesting contender. He's powerful. He's athletic. In the words, I've been folks, and Chad Dunniss, he looks good,

getting off the bus, like the whole thing, right? So that's the way you go. And Dominic Cruz, I do believe that he and TJ have unfinished business, but Danny, he's coming off of a loss, okay? And granted, you know, it was a bit of a while ago, but you're just launching a guy into a title shot off of a loss. Look, we had Dominic on the show. I think super highly of his abilities.

maybe my favorite commentator in the UFC, but a loss is a loss that should count for something, and there should be some degree of record rehabilitation before a title shot is awarded. So I think you do Maraishe, Dilla Shaw, Assun Sal Cruz. I disagree with you. All right, why? I think a Sunsau should get the shot. I mean, this guy, let's look at the facts. This guy's 11 and won in his last 12 bouts. Okay. His within that record, his only loss has been to the champion, T.J. Dillishaw, And he also has a win against T.J. Dillashaw. I understand that that win was very dominant for T.J. Dillishaw. But again, the title needs to be defended.

It's not about what's the sexiest fight or what fight does the most. It should be awarded to the number one contender. We need to get back to that. Also, Haffa Los Angeles has a win over Marais. Like, not too long ago. Was it last year? It's very controversial. Still, a win's a win.

Dominic Cruz took the belt from T. T.J. Dillashaw, and a very controversial. decision as well. That doesn't mean it wasn't champion. Just be real for just a minute. Just be real. Malin Maraishe, whether or not you think he

is more deserving than a Sun Salo is a different debate. He is clearly a deserving contender on some on some level. Be real. Which fight to you is more exciting in theory? Now in the end you never know. Morais de laishaw. Okay. But the defense, the defense rests.

We all talk about oh, Connor McGregor throwing a dolly. That's a black guy in the sport. You know what's a black guy in the sport? Halfalo Sonsar are not getting a title shot. The man has put in the work. The man needs a title shot. Same thing with Dustin Poyer. Like, we go up.

If he had never fought, if he had never fought T.J., I'd agree. But they fought twice already. I'm happy to see him fight a former champion dominant Cruz. And I would say this. If you're going to make the Maresch fight with Dillashah, okay, you put Cruz and a Sunsau on the same card. So that way there's like a connectivity and a relationship between all the outlaws. I'm with you on that, but I think it should be Dillishaw.

on South, Morise Cruz. And by way, Marais Cruz is a hell of a fight. Oh, yeah. For sure. But not the right one. Yeah. Oh, we'll see. All right, let's move on.

Let's agree to disagree. All right, that's fine. Now let's talk about Demetri's Johnson. Hey, Luke, how's it going? My name is Pedro. I'm calling from Southern California. My question is, with Demetri's Johnson just losing his championship? and with him already wiping out that whole flyweight division,

would it be a great time for him to finally move up to Bantamoy and fight, let's say, a Dominic Cruz, which a win over him would put him right up there in title contention, and in the process to get another title to add to his resume. What do you think about it? And I love what you're doing with the show, man. keep it up. So basically here...

Well, let me say... Can I say thanks to Peter? Pedro? I have trouble with the DR in Spanish. I've always had trouble with it. Pedro? Pedro. Peter, in Spanish, great call. Great question.

But go ahead. You had some thoughts about it. Yes, so we've seen guys like, for example, Hafeld dos Sanjos, you know, lose the belt. He goes, the heck with it. I'm done at lightweight. I move up and start another career there. Is this the case for Demetra Johnson? Is this... Could this be a fresh...

start for him and move up to 135. So let me just say this real quick. This is not going to come as some kind of great surprise to the world, but the rankings are fucked up beyond all repair. They are fubbarred real badly. But the fubartiness,

if that makes any sense, actually works in the fighters' favor if you're at the top of the division. It works against you if you're not, but here's what I mean. I've been saying this to managers and fighters whenever I've had private conversations with them. You see Stipe and meote each other

being like, I should get an immediate rematch. And you can make an argument about it one way or the other, but that's not my point. My point is when Francis and Ganu lost to Stepe, where did he end up after that loss in the rankings, Danny? Number one.

Where do you think Stebe Miotich is right now after losing? Probably number one. Number one. Where was Jose Aldo after he lost to Max Holloway? Number one. That's an issue. If you are in a title fight and you lose, the rankings panel, they suck

ass, but they're going to do you a solid. They're going to put you right at number one. And if anybody is going to end up at number one after a title loss, it's going to be Demetrius Johnson for crying out loud. So I don't understand the argument. Like if you wanted to make an argument about let's see what he could go and get another belt and how he could do there. Well, number one, okay, I would agree that'd be kind of interesting, but DJ has not really seemed all that interested in that. He left bansom weight for a reason. And number two, why do you need to go and worry about beating Dominic Cruz to maybe put yourself in title contention when you're the number one guy in your weight class? Folks, fighters, listen to me, please. If you are holding a title and you

lose, or you're a number one contender and you lose, don't worry. You're going to be a number one contender when the fight is over. Darren Till, if he's, if he's a number one contender, if he's, he's, he's, He doesn't beat Tyrone Woodley. I've got great news for you. You're going to be the number one contender. It happens after every fight. I don't understand what everyone's so worried about. You're right there.

Danny, I know I'm yelling, but it just drives me crazy. Is no one looking at the rankings? Yeah, the rankings are ridiculous. But I agree with you on this one. I mean, first of all, the weight difference between bantam weight, like 10 pounds might not seem like a lot, but 10 pounds at that weight is a lot. And I don't know how many people have met Demetrius Johnson.

I've interviewed him. I've met him in person a number of times. And I'm not a big guy whatsoever. And I'm significantly bigger. He's cheeky tickle. He's very small, yeah. So I don't think the weight cut for him to 125 is too tough. And to deal with bigger guys.

And the opposition at 135, man, it's tough. If you look at the top 10 or the top five from 135, I would make an argument that is probably more competitive than the top five at flyweight. So did you see this article from Mark Romundi? Which one? About all but six fighters came in over the California regulations. I saw the headline, but I haven't actually dived into the article.

Biggest jump in weigh-ins from Fight Day belonged to Alex Perez, who went from 126 on Friday and fought at 146 on Saturday. Six fighters who came in below the 10% mark were Cody Garbrant, Cub Swanson, Kevin Holland, Wiley, Zhang, Daniel Taylor, excuse me, and Wooligi Burr. No name of T.J. Dillishaw, right? No. Interesting, here right for this. Interestingly, Garbrand weighed the same on fight day as Demetrius Johnson, who fights in the division below Garbrandt. Perez weighed 4.6 pounds more than Garbrand did, though Perez is a flyweight. And Garbrant is a bantam weight. That is bananas. Okay. Interesting. Right. Okay. That's an interesting segue to our next question. Okay. We just talked about the winners and losers of the main event, but we're still missing one guy, Cody Garbrand.

All right. Hey, Mr. Luke Thomas. First and foremost, love the show, my man. I love your energy. They didn't twist you bring. In my opinion, it's just as or equally as good as the show with Air Han Juan and hosting it. My question is regarding to Cody Garber. What should be his next move?

And when the UFC match him up? Should it be against someone that he can, you know, start to? Or should they get him another stiff, stiff test? let me get your thoughts on the minute. So, per our last question, where do you think Cody Garbrandt's going to end up? You know what? I actually, now that you just told me about the weight,

the fact that Garbrand waited as much as Demetri's Johnson, it makes me wonder, would it maybe be a good idea for Garbrand to reinvent himself, go down to 125 and start fresh from there because, yo, he's got two losses to T.J. Dillish, the champion. We know where that puts you. And if Marlon wins, Um, that could change things.

Good. Right. Here's my only question for Cody. But man, that's a, that's a gamble. So this is the thing about rematches, man. I was thinking about this all weekend. In the back of the day, rematches typically, some of this is not true, but typically there was a little, there was gap between rematches. So like Couture and Ladell would go like two years apart between between their fights.

And typically the guy who wins the second fight always wins the third. But I don't know if there's even going to be a third one because the second one was more emphatic than the first. So that's just a really bad spot to be in. Here's what I would say. If he can make flyweight and still carry his power down, I would seriously consider that for the moment. Now, I'm contradicting myself to a degree because I'm saying you're the number one contender.

What are you worried about? Cody Garbrandt, when they update these rankings, in all likelihood, at worst, will be two. And certainly more than likely will be number one sitting in the ranking. So like you're sitting in a good spot. But then you have to ask yourself, okay, you might be number one, but is that one a bit of an artificial one? Not because you're not very, very talented, but because if we're talking about a contendership

queue, you just lost twice. You're not going to be the next guy to get a title shot. So in that sense, you have to rethink things. I don't know, man. He's obviously very, very competitive at Bansomweight, very competitive. But if you can let things sort out there for a moment and go down to flyweight and, again, carry some of that power with you because we know if one thing he is, he is absolutely dominating in his power

and, you know, maybe he I don't know if picks up speed, but can maintain all the speed that he needs? Yeah. I think it's worth considering. Considering is the word I'm using, not doing. Yeah, I think it'd be worth a try. You know, take a fight down there, see how you feel. If you feel good, keep it going. And, you know, this is something that you brought up and it's interesting. These rematches, rematches should be fights apart, you know, a year apart, two years apart. Imagine if Cody Garbrant would have been matched

up against, I don't know, anyone else. And he just keeps knocking people out. How big that fight, and T.J. Dillashar retains the belt. How big that fight could have potentially been a year from now? Could have been huge. But look, you just ruined. I don't want to say ruined, but you definitely hurts a very young and talented fighter's career by just putting him in immediate rematch.

And now he has two back-to-back losses against the champion. And the second one was not, I mean, it was less competitive than the first. It's not headed in the right direction. And this guy's young, this guy's evolving. Like, why do you put them back in that? Let's be clear about Cody Garbrandt for a second. Cody Garbrandt is an excellent fighter. Yeah.

And, you know, he was a little chippy this week with the media over the old tweets that resurfaced. But I would say generally in my interactions with him, he's been nothing but professional. And John Anick made a point. Dude, these young guys, like Cody Garbrand and the Brian Ortega's, these like dudes in their mid to like sort of late 20s, dude, they're pulling people in. Like, people are coming to see them. Now, maybe they're not necessarily box, or excuse me, they're not pay-per-view

main attractions just yet. But like, dude, Staples Center was sold out, man. And people want to see these young guys. Cody Garbrand is a draw at the box office. At least there's some reason to believe that he is. And I'm not saying that's gone away overnight, but this is not necessarily the best way to nurture that.

They're rushing these title fights. They're rushing these title versus title fights. They're rushing these rematches on this immediate thing. Look at this fight. UFC 228. Look, on its surface, there's nothing wrong with, excuse me, Tyron Woodley. versus Darren Till.

But Jesus Christ, Danny, I get up Saturday morning, and I see a tweet from a zombie prophet, and he said, Colby Covington, he's on the front page of CNN, cheesing with Trump. And I go, that can't be real. And I go and look at it, and sure enough, there it is.

Now, I'm not saying that's a star-making performance and moment in time, but some of these things, dude, it's like a pot of a soup. right? Are you trying to make any, especially if you're using like bones to make the broth? Dude, it just takes time to cook. Caldo de Costilla. Right.

You can't fatt that in a microwave, dude. It just takes time for it to be done the right way. And so, Cody, do not write him off. Do not write him off. But I do agree, taking some time back to reflect, how do I get to that next stage of my career? Does it need a weight class reset? Maybe it doesn't. But I do think that there is some rethinking about it now because they just pushed him up twice and it didn't

go well. So what are you going to do? Yeah, the UFC is operating like a micro-roven. You need to start thinking more like, more like an oven, you know, they got to start thinking, you know, long distance, you know, these immediate rematches, they only make sense in certain scenarios, like the Demetra's Johnson case. If a guy, if a champion loses and, or like Anderson Silva, he's already older, he doesn't need to go and get a huge wind streak to get back up. But in the case, like Cody Garber, when you know he still has a lot to grow, dude, why do you, why do you throw him up there? So yeah, I agree, but he definitely has to rethink about his career. Maybe a new weight class could be interesting.

The amount of fights are doing two things. Number one, they're wearing fans' patience thin. And number two, they are forcing fighters into taking fights ahead of a schedule that often makes sense even for the UFC and especially for the fighters themselves. And that should be noted. Let's go. Another one. Cool.

Now, let's talk about the UFC press conference on Friday and a few things that we saw there. Okay. Yeah, play it. That's fine. Play it. Hey, Luke. This is Travis. from Michigan. During the 25th anniversary press conference, when Darren Till and Tyrone Woodley were

squaring off, you could definitely tell there was a size difference between the two. Darren Till looked absolutely huge. Is that going to be a problem for Tyron Woodley? He's always been the bigger guy against his opponent's been able to kind of bully his way through his fight. He does have a lot of skill, but he's always been bigger. Is it going to be different for him not being able to bully the bigger Darren Till? What do you think? Thanks. Bye. and Tyron Woodley in person? Did any of ever interacted with him?

I think, yeah, I did, actually. When he donked out Jay Huron at, like, UFC 250-something, 56, I think Aldo and Frankie fought on that card. You mean 156? No, no, no. Then it must have been later. No, yeah, 156.

Sorry, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was in Vegas. Whatever, no, number one. Tyrone Woodley, I don't know that he's all that tall, but I've interacted with him in person a number of times. Yo, dude is yoked.

Yo, he's jacked. He is bricked up. And he's super athletic. I mean, I don't know, I do think that comes with some tradeoffs in the gas tank. I think it's not fair to say he has a terrible gas tank. I don't think that's true. But I do think that musculature and that power output and the way he uses it comes at some kind of a tradeoff with the gas tank. Right.

He's not this Nate Diaz guy that's always. But here's the deal. Like, yes, I agree. There was an absolutely enormous size differential between them. I noticed that too. I was shocked at how much it was. But when you say bully, bully in what way, remember, there's a, a skill differential too in wrestling.

Darren Till can train the rest of his life. He's not going to outrestle Tyraudley. He might be able to save himself by staying on the feet, and I guess we're going to have to see how that plays out here. But my issue is, when you say bully, it's like if their sizes are what they are and their wrestling skill sets are as different as I

think they are, it's going to be Tyron who's doing the bullying, especially early. Now, the question is, how much? I don't know. And if it's enough where Darren Till can keep himself in the fight and it goes late, all bets are off. But I have a very hard time, Danny, believing that Darren Till, or frankly, anybody in that division is going to be muscling Tyron Woodley around. I really have a hard time accepting

that. Yeah. I think, you know, technique goes a long way and Tyrone Woodley is very technical. He's both. Yeah. So he's both powerful and technical. But size does matter a lot in wrestling. You know, sprawling, if you got a guy sprawling on you that's 20 pounds heavier than some other guys, you know, you feel it. So we'll see how that plays out. We'll see even if Darren Till makes weight, to be honest. But, man, that size difference looked ridiculous. Who do you think is stronger in the weight room,

which is not the same as functional strength? But who do you think is stronger in the weight room? In the weight room? I'm going to go with Woodley. There just looks like the better athlete. If I were to look at both guys, who looks more athletic, who could probably do crazy or shit, probably time.

There's no doubt in my mind he's better in the weight room. Again, that's not the same thing as functional strength. By the way, other thing, if you're wrestling somebody and you're bigger than them, I can say this because I'm bigger than most people. I often have the opportunity to train within a training environment. The major problem I often have with the smaller guys is their speed. They're able to get in all my hips and legs. Now, I have some control there when I'm stronger and bigger,

but the speed can give me a problem. Maybe Till is bigger. I bet you at least early, Woodley's a lot faster. Yeah, yeah, I think so too. All right. Any more? How much time do you have? A few more minutes. Okay, one or two questions.

Let's see. Let's just see how this one other. Okay, cool. Hey, what's going on? Luke and Danny? This is Dylan from New Jersey. New Jersey. I want a quick question about Henry Sehudo's win over Demetrius Johnson on Saturday night.

I mean, it seems to me that wrestling is probably the most important art to really master. You can see that it was a wrestling dominant victory. And you look at all these great champions, like George St. Pierre perfected his wrestling, John Jones, you know, he wasn't a national champion in college. He was a very good wrestler. So it seems like wrestling is probably the best art form to master in order to be an elite fighter. What do you think about this? Thanks and love the show.

So Daniel Cormier, Henry Sehudo, right? George St. Pierre, you know, a lot of the greats have been really great at wrestling. Is wrestling the most dominant, the most important martial art in MMA? It depends on one's perspective. I defer to my, as he often calls us, my brother from another mother, Dean Thomas. We are not related. But he had made a point on Twitter, I think, yesterday or two days ago or whatever it was, saying that, well, he didn't know if wrestling by itself was the best skill set.

And there's some debate about that. But the guys who come from wrestling, right? And then we're talking about the relatively elite or out. outright elite environment. So, you know, Olympic caliber, Division 1 or Division 2 even, just we're grinding it out in wrestling rooms for their adolescence and teenage years. They just come out different. They can be trained quickly. They have really worked on their bodies to make it very adaptable to training of all different kinds and varieties. That, again, you also have these take-down skills, which are important. You can learn jiu-jitsu much quicker.

you're more teachable, you're coachable, you're ready for a hard training. You just have a certain mentality and physicality. And there's just a certain degree of carryover that comes from that. That Jiu-Jitsu, you know this, man. Sometimes you get in these rooms and it can be, you know, lazy is not the right word, but relaxed, have some fun. Everyone's fist bumping and high-fiving and doing the shaka and all that bullshit, right? And in wrestling rooms, man, you know what?

someone made a great point to me about wrestling one time, right? Because I went to watch, I saw, this is the big match years ago. I went in college when they were in college, and I saw David Taylor versus Kyle Dake. And that was like in college at the time, man, that was, you know, that was Jordan versus LeBron or something, right? And, and he, I noticed something. When the match was over, they shook hands, but like super reluctantly. Like, you know, like you had to just by virtue of the rules, but there was a, no custom to it, okay? And he goes, you ever notice that at the end of wrestling matches, these guys barely shake hands and acknowledge each other. And at the end of a really tough

fight, these guys are high-fiving and hugging. There's a certain degree of spirituality. Yo, in college wrestling, they don't have none of that. They don't do any of that dog. They're warriors. They're warriors out there. So you take somebody from that environment, you've already got carryover skills, which by way, on its own, Danny, might be an argument to make that they're the best. But you've got all the other attributes as well that come over where these guys are hard-nosed and as we say in the Marine Corps, hard chargers, man.

I didn't know, I haven't heard of Dean Thomas take, but that's... Dean Thomas, by the way, an underrated follow, but go ahead. I will follow him now after the show. But yeah, that's something that I had in my mind.

I sure, like wrestling has a bunch of attributes, but it comes with a certain mentality. Like, being in the wrestling room, I wrestled in high school. Like, that thing is as close as you can get to child abuse without it being child abuse. They put you through hell. And there's a really famous quote. It might be by Dan Gable.

It's like, once you've wrestled everything and life is easy and 100% true. I mean, in wrestling, like look at Daniel Cormier, like all the adversities had to go through. The losses to John Jones and he's still so persistent. I believe Henry Seudo, after winning the title, he said at one point he was about to quit, but he didn't. Like the type of mentality that wrestling breeds, there's no quit. And yeah, 100% as far as like no shaking hands after the match, it's really a like a custom thing, but you don't really like,

you just kind of throw your hand out there and then you have to go and shake the opponent's coach's hand and then you go back to your coach and he yells at you whether you win or you won. Whether you win or you're lost. So yeah, the mentality that wrestling breeds is one of a champion. And there's another great quote. The Dan Gable one is good,

but Kail Sanderson had one, which is that wrestling is going to fill in the gaps that my parenting can't. Right? So if you're a good parent and your kids in wrestling, they're just going to get a certain degree of positive but tough character development that's going to make them ready for all kinds of life challenges, whether they're on the mat or they're off. And all the wrestlers I've known have used to exemplified some of that. You get the super elite ones like a Sahudo and Olympic gold medalist, you know, they're just a different level. And also like the mechanics of wrestling, like wrestling, you're going 100% the whole time.

It's a sprint. Oh, it's a sprint the whole time. Yeah. And in jiu-jitsu, like, you tap out, you get into certain positions, and you know, you don't want to get anything hyper-extended, so you stop the match. There's a lot of stalemate on positions. So by definition, you're already resting a lot. In wrestling, it's nonstop. So that does something to you. When you're nonstop for your whole life years, imagine Henry Sehudo, growing up, I don't know, like eight years old, just wrestling every single day. Like, that does something to your mind. Yeah, it really does. All right, man, we're out of time. The calls were good. they were good yeah we had a mouth breather i don't know if you want to feature them 15 seconds yeah it's just mouth very notorious mouth reader that was a voice man by the way lack of faith disturbs me

it's just this for 15 seconds yeah it's pretty good pretty good wait did you just make a vain voice no no that was my bane sounds like my darts vater okay but it was darts vader your lack of faith disturbs me come on now not i was bored into it but we That's different. All right, buddy. Good job today. Thanks.

Really appreciate it. Got to thank Israel Adasanya. And I was like we had the people on Skype. So we had Sarah Kaufman on Skype, Israel Adasanya on Skype, but of course, Dustin Poirier. We got to leave Dustin alone. We've had them on like every week. So we think, big thanks to him. Big thanks to you, my friend.

Good job. All right. Don't forget, call the number 844-66-2468. Send this your tweets using the hashtag, the MMA hour. Until next time, stay frosty.