MMA Fighting - The MMA Hour with Luke Thomas – Episode 450

Episode Date: September 24, 2018

On this episode of The MMA Hour, Luke Thomas speaks to former UFC welterweight champion Johny Hendricks about his retirement from MMA as well as his foray into bareknuckle boxing; Bas Rutten about recent MMA headlines plus his work with the PFL and upcoming Karate Combat event in NYC; journalist Karim Zidan who will help unpack the statements and accusations made at the UFC 229 presser by Conor McGregor against Khabib Nurmagomedov, Additionally we also answer your questions on the Sound Off, and Luke gives his thoughts about Jon Jones' USADA suspension on The Weigh-in. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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It's the mixed martial arts hour. It is Monday, September 24th, 2018, and Caesar is home. Welcome, everyone. My name is Luke Thomas, and this is the MMA hour right here on MMAFiting.com. Thank you so much for joining me. I greatly appreciate it. What a show we have planned for you guys today. All the trimmings that we normally have sound off way in, round of tweets,

the huge, plus a star-studded panel right here. on the show. Let's see. Now, we have to rearrange the guests in a little bit, which I'll explain. But today on the show, Johnny Hendricks will be here to discuss his foray into barrennuckle boxing. Baz Routen will be here. He's calling the Karate Combat Show on Thursday, I believe, at the top of the Freedom Tower. How crazy is that? Plus, we're going to have Karim Zedan will be here, an investigative journalist to go over some of the madness from the UFC 229 presser. And we had to shift them around a little bit, but I think we got him. Malki Kau will be here at about 150. So I think we might go a little bit longer today than we normally do. Obviously, we usually close shop at around 2. We'll probably go to about 210 or so. That's what we're looking at here.

As always, you can tweet the show and you have been. Thank you so much for that, using the hashtag the MMA hour. You can also call us at any time. You can call us at the number 844-866-2468. And you can leave voicemails. So we usually do the sound off at the end of the show. We're actually You're going to do it in the first hour. We had Malkyon. Well, it's a long story. I'll explain just a second. But you know what?

We have no time to waste. It was an incredible weekend. I watched DeZone for the first time. I'll talk about that a little bit later. Anthony Joshua wins. And then there was UFC Salpala when there was some controversy therein. And you get the idea.

You know who also had a fantastic weekend? Is the aros to my frioles, the arquepe to my pan, the alla to my chambaya, the one and only, Danny Segura, with, how do you say black eye in Spanish? Ojo Negro. Oh, ho Negro.

Quite literally. How are you, my friend? I'm good. A little under the weather, huh? Yeah, I'm a little sick, but, you know, toughing it out, and I'm here. All right. So who busted you up?

What happened? So picture, I subbed for a friend's league game on Friday. This is soccer? Okay. Yes. Or football, right? All right. Picture the Columbia versus England.

the World Cup game. Oh, they got a little nasty. Except we're all a lot shittier than those guys. So, yeah, there was a few red cards. A lot of little scuffles broke out here and there, and I took an elbow to the eye in the process. Did it swell up at all? A little bit.

I actually didn't think it was going to be that bad. It did swell up a bit, and it hurt, but I thought I was going to be fine. The next morning when I woke up, I was like, oh, my God. But, yeah, it was fun. So did you go and, like, viciously slide-tackle the other guy and, you know, baiting a red card in response? Not really.

It was towards the end, so I couldn't get much retaliation. But hopefully I get another chance. Did that guy get a red card? What happened? No, nothing. Nothing? Nothing. Zero.

You got shoved by my teammates. You know what? Racism. That's what I'm going to claim. Sure. Irresponsibly. I have no proof whatsoever. I'm just going to say racism.

All right. Well, did you win? We lost one zero. You took an L in a number of ways, huh? Yes. Yes. It was a rough weekend. It was a rough weekend.

And here you are. You've got what appears to be whatever it was making Tom Hanksick in Philadelphia. Have you ever seen that movie? I don't know. I haven't. Yeah, well, you've got that, it looks like. So you're struggling out here, huh? Yeah, it's rough. All right. It's a rough day. Real quickly, yeah. So if you were inside the whole time, did you watch DeZone? Do you have the DeZone app?

I do have access to the zone app, but I haven't had a chance to check it out. I will in the next couple days. I will talk about this a little bit later in the show, but I watched it. I watched Belator on Friday night with it, and then I watched the Povetkin Joshua fight on Saturday. I've got some thoughts I want to share a little bit later, because as you know, the big Belator fight is coming up. this weekend, the big one that they're launching. This was their soft opening. That's their grand opening a little bit later this week.

So that should be kind of interesting. I'm looking forward to that. Of course, UFC Sao Paulo happened over the weekend. How were the calls? How were the tweets? And so were the tweets. I mean, tons of stuff happened over the weekend. Not only with the events, but with the UFC 229 press conference

and the whole John Jones situation. Usada suspension. So we had a lot of good questions. Okay. I know you're not feeling great. So I appreciate you thugging it out and showing up. people are punching you in the face and you're still out here showing up to work. That is commitment like Noel.

So thank you for being here. I appreciate it. We will come back to you a little bit later. I guess we're going to do the sound off at what time now, 1230, something like that? Yes. 1235? 1235. All right, 1235 sound off.

Until then. Thank you, Danny. All right. Let's get to it now. It is time for the way in. Time now for the way in here on the MMA hour. Last week was a big week. So big, in fact, that I was struggling today trying to figure out what we would talk about here.

On the way in, because there was obviously the madness at the press conference. There, of course, was the John Jones stuff. There was a bunch of other smaller news that even then carried some greater significance. As I mentioned, the advent, really, of streaming for the major organizations. I mean, yes, they've been on Fight Pass, but we're talking about their marquee stuff going on streaming. That starts this weekend. But no, that's not where I wanted to start this. And I know I harp on this topic, and I know a lot of people disagree, and that's fine.

I expect them to. I am not running from this debate, but I am not going to ignore it either. Do you know what today is? Yes, it is Monday. Yes, it is the 24th of September, but more than that. Do you know what historic milestone that we have stumbled upon? Maybe you do, maybe you don't. It is the 30th anniversary of what is not.

known as the dirtiest race in track and field history. This is when Ben Johnson in the Seoul Olympics in 1988, ultimately, you know, we know the story about who won, but then six of the eight competitors, including him, eventually tested positive for some kind of banned substance. Now, all a bit of a different circumstance, but you had eight finalists in that race, I think it was 100 meters, and six of the eight finalists all eventually had some kind of testing issues to answer for. And it's known as the dirtiest race in track and field history. Now, why is that relevant as I rub up against the mic like a stripper on a pole? The answer is that here we are 30 years later, and I would ask you to consider what have we

accomplished? Where are we with anti-doping? How successful has this effort become? I know these questions are uncomfortable, and no one appears to want to ask them except for me, but I am fine to carry that mantle. Have we won yet? Better question. Are we even close?

I would humbly submit to you that 30 years following what was one of the major catalysts for not merely a frenzy around anti-doping, but frankly, some kind of substantive change, at least in theory, 30 years later, we are basically no better off. There's no evidence to conclude we're in any way is better off. None. I know that's a very uncomfortable feeling. I know that we have all been bred to believe that those athletes who use are dirty and that those who don't are clean and that there's such a thing as the rights of clean athletes, which there's no such thing because they are in direct contravention to the right of human privacy, so therefore they cannot possibly exist.

I grant you that breaking rules is making sport hard to follow and for some hard to stomach. We can all agree that rule breaking should go away. But what I cannot abide by is folks not staring this issue in the face and recognizing the facts for what they are. We are on the 30-year anniversary, and we are not one iota closer to solving doping or, frankly, in any way, noticeably, meaningfully reducing it. Now, maybe it's not quite as rampant as it was on that day, but has it really changed? Can we really say the games have been cleaned up? Can you really say that the technology is used and the practices used as they apply to not merely Olympic games, but other sports that are relevant, in this case, MMA, that they are really truly effective.

One percent of all tests have adverse analytical findings. One percent 30 years later. There are estimates done based on confidential surveying that up to 40 and potentially 60 percent of athletes use. and you're catching 1% of them. Ladies and gentlemen, I've been trying to explain this to people and they just don't want to listen, but hear me out, testing catches people who are either accidentally using,

not good at hiding their cheating, or some combination of the two. It is not entirely, but primarily theater. Or at least, I won't say primarily, a good chunk of it is just theater. All the big busts come in the way of investigations. They come in the way of research. They come in the way of whistleblowers.

They don't really come in the way of testing. Not anymore. The drugs are to designer. There are ways around the testing, even with questions about whereabouts programs. People have gotten better at using, and they've gotten better substances, substance, excuse me, to help them get better at using. It's just a reality. It's just a fact.

You can skip your whereabouts programs requirements a number of times before you're even in violation. You can microdose. You can find ways like Marion Jones did before there was a whistleblower to just use something they don't even have tests for. And this goes on and on and on. And I see the same responses over and over and over again. No, what you need to do is come up with punishments that make people so unwilling to use it that, they'll stop or they'll see the horrors happen to somebody else, and eventually this will truly deter us.

Right, it might deter some folks. It also might deter the audience from showing back up after you irreparably damage the sport. That's what it might do. Did you guys see what happened in Russia last week? All the news was about John Jones. All the news was about the 229 presser, but something happened all the way over in the Seychelles.

Did you guys see that? essentially, Russia was reintroduced to the community of nations. Rousada was allowed to begin to test their athletes again, despite all the warnings from watchdogs that this would be a terrible thing for world anti-doping. And why? Why would Wada want to do this? The parent, essentially, organization of which Usada is a signatory, where the prohibited list comes from. Why would they want to do that?

Because in the answer, like Thomas Bach of the IOC said, and like essentially other figures at the top of WADA have said, not in these terms, I'm to a degree borrowing here. But they have basically said they don't have the stomach for it anymore. What is the major complaint that Travis TIGR, the head of YSada has had about WADA, that its structure creates for a conflict of interest? Yes, you have the governments who are funding money on the one hand, and they want to see anti-doping really work. and then you have the sports federations on the other hand

who don't want to see it, and that creates the conflict. And that's why you're not getting optimum results from WADA. 30 years later, I'd like to point out, they now have all this architecture, and they're no closer to making any kind of progress. But more to the point, what does that tell you when people who are running the IOC or people who are running the sports federations

don't want it anymore? It's not that they don't want anti-doping at all. It's that they don't want this. They don't want this anymore. There's no. way for it to meaningfully work, maybe at all, but certainly not under the current system, you would have to have truly draconian punishments, truly, for there to be any real possibility of deterrence, at which point you are going to catch people who are important to the sports

and their absence is going to cause a problem. And you could say, oh, what about the rights of clean athletes? If they run into your rights of privacy, then they're not actually rights. sort of God-given, inalienable, they don't exist. It's not possible to have this panopticon of anti-doping that's required to really stamp it out without substantively and meaningfully running over the rights of athletes in terms of their privacy, period. It's not possible.

One necessitates the disappearance of the other. And where that line is drawn, of course, is an important debate to be had. But where it is now, which is still already pretty invasive, where you're watching Tim Kennedy shower naked in front of a tester, where people are parked outside your house at 6 a.m. like some creep. That's not enough. It's not even close to enough.

You'd have to go significantly further. Why are we bringing all this up? Because I know we're going to have Malki Kawa on a little bit later. We had the John Jones news. People can think what they want about John. They really can. And I'm not here to debate too much about what people. will want to say in terms of their overall picture of John. Here's what I am going to say.

Zero tolerance, anti-doping is in need of a major rethink. We are coming up on now historical milestones without any shred of substantive progress towards the diminishment of use of performance to dancing drugs in sport. 30 years later, here we are. Steal dealing with the same kinds of issues, and frankly, even worse. There's actually more drugs now than there ever was before and more varieties. It's happening over and over and over and over and over again. Here is what we need. We need the athletes to have some kind of fighters union to develop their own policy in concordance with either you saw it or UFC. But in the absence with that, we just need to wake up a little bit and smell the roses. What does the NBA have? What does the NBA have? They have

the laxist testing policy in all of sports. And number one, their audience doesn't care. And number two, it gives everyone inside just enough freedom to use without being idiots. Yes, a couple of guys get caught here or there, but they never really had a major scandal. Because what they basically do is they put a lid on the pot and they said, if the crabs want to fight it out in here, it's fine. They don't really care anymore. That's what it's about. And you could say, well, look, that might be fine for the NBA. Their fans don't care. Maybe they're athletes used. Maybe they don't, but that can't work in fighting because fighting is different. Look at all the damage that might be happening. Can anybody sit here and tell me with a straight face that MMA is safer today?

Did you see what happened with Eric Anders? Collapsing like that and his corner dragging him over? Like, I mean, he was a lifeless heap of almost nothingness and his corner was dragging him here. And you're worried about whether or not someone was on EPO maybe at some other different bout? Let me get this straight. You can't figure it out in tennis. You can't figure it out in golf. You can't figure it out in golf. You can't figure it out in basketball. You can't figure it out in baseball. You can't figure it out in football. You can't figure it out in football. You can't figure it out in table tennis. You can't figure it out in diving. You can't figure it out, frankly, even in cycling. You can't figure it out anywhere, but all of a sudden, fighting is going to be different. Why? No, it's not.

It's not going to be different at all. In no way, shape, or form will it be different? It'll be the exact same scenario. Because in the end, all these people chirping about how they're so mad at John Jones, maybe you are, but you can't really meaningfully claim to be upset if you're still going to watch all of his fights. You can't really claim as a journalist that you're super mad at John, and then you show up when you provide coverage and you do interviews with him. Because I don't believe you. That's really the only way to show that you care. Oh, well, I care, but this time I'm going to pay for the pay-per-view or this time I'll show up. Then you don't really care. Nor do I expect you to. It doesn't.

doesn't make any sense to care. We're 30 years in. Since that date, actually goes back to 1968, if you're only going to talk about amphetamines and cycling. That's how long this nonsense has carried on for. And here's the truth, and it's uncomfortable, but I don't know what we're going to do, because the dog finally caught the car on this one, folks. We thought we wanted it, and I will raise my hand. I was guilty about it, too. I kind of thought it's what we wanted as well. Because TRT and all these arguments about how, oh my God, my, my, my, my, Endocrine system is failing me, and you just felt like you were rolling your eyes because how could this possibly be true? How could that be true? And it wasn't, right? It was clearly an abused system.

And we thought this is what we wanted, but the truth is human beings don't ever learn the easy way, dude. We always learn the hard way, and we thought we wanted it. But you don't know you don't want something until you've tried it. And sometimes that means trial and error. But here's the problem. There's one really powerful argument about Usada, super powerful. which is if some catastrophe happens, God forbid, if some catastrophe happens, and somebody gets hurt, maimed, God forbid, dies inside the octagon, and one of the competitors, either one, frankly, test positive or anything, the UFC at least has some insurance to say, look, we did everything possible. I grant that that's actually a pretty powerful argument.

If you want to argue that's the reason to do it, I'm not really sure what to say about that, to be quite frank. But it's got nothing to do with clean sports, it's got nothing to do with the cops and robbers headlines that everyone loves to consume teams. MZ style. And it's like catching the tiger by the tail. Well, you caught it. Now what are you going to do from it? How do you back out of that? I don't know.

I don't know the answer. I just want to take these opportunities because no one else is going to bring this up, even though everyone else knows it's true. A new conversation is needed. I don't know what that way forward is, but there is a way forward. We need to explore it because what we have now, it clearly ain't working. Not for you, not for me, not for the athletes, not really for anybody, other than maybe the sanctity of the reputation of the anti-doping agencies. All right, with that out of the way, let's go to our first guest.

This gentleman retired from the sport, but he is not going away. He is going to be taking on Brennan Ward, November 9th at WBKFF1, Rise of the Titans. He's one of the best welterweights to ever do it. joins us now via Skype. Johnny Hendricks is here. Hey, Johnny, how are you? Doing great. How are you doing today? I'm doing quite well.

Johnny, where do you join us from? Where are you right now? I'm from Texas. I'm in Texas right now. That's the beautiful part of now not doing MMA. I get to do boxing. Texas is a big state for boxing. And I'm able to get a lot of good partners.

Okay. So let's talk about this. Why did you retire from MMA? Well, one of the reasons was because I think Lussaud is a great thing for the athletes because it's making people be clean, right? You know, I took 26 tests, never failed one of them. But so that was in two years, I took 26 tests, never failed one of them. But what hurts the MMA aspect of it is that you can't Ivy back.

So I'm a bigger welterweight. I walk around at 210. I've done that since I was 19 years old, walk around at 210. And whenever the IV always brought me back. You know, it helped me get back to life. It helped me get back to where I didn't feel like I cut weight.

And once you saw it came into the play, you had to walk around. I'd had to start walk around like 190 at best. and as you can tell, I do carry a lot of weight. So, you know, I have a family. I love being with them. And that's sort of one reason why it just made it that much harder to make weight at 170. So, but why not stay in MMA and then just do $185 in MMA?

I know you did it a little bit there, but I guess the question is why I leave MMA altogether? Well, because, you know, any of the best. Okay, I'm just not in the sport to just be in a sport. So that makes sense? I can do other things. If I'm going to do it, I want to be the best. And I know welterweight is my, that's where I should be. Now, if they got, you know, like I like that, like I said, I love the fact of Usada.

And I like that you do the random drug testing. I just wish that they have a lot of people that show up at these meets. If you want to do an IV, have them test you every day. I'm perfectly fine with that. You mean, you show up on Monday, you get tested. Tuesday you get tested, Wednesday you get tested, Thursday. If you have any P-Left, you can get tested on Thursday. And then they let, they're testing the IV bags.

They're doing everything like that. I think you can bring back IVs because I think there's a lot of people that really used the IVs to help them fight better. And once you took that away, you started seeing some of these guys, they either had to, to move up or they stayed at their normal weight and they didn't perform like they used to. How much better did you feel using the IV? Is there any way to let the audience like in on that? Can you describe how much better it was for you? Excuse me. I always told, you know, I tell everybody, go run 26 miles, take an IV. The next day, you're going to be sore, but guess what? You feel like you could run again.

It's an amazing thing. Like, you know, we always got vitamin, all the vitamins, all the minerals that you're pulling from your body, irons and stuff like that, that your body really needs to compete at a high level. Definitely, whenever you're fighting the UFC, you need those back in your muscles. And that's, you know, like a perfect example. Without them, I think I was fighting at maybe 50%. With them, I was fighting right around 90%.

Because my body was able to recover after that hard weight cut. Is there any way to assess maybe what kind of damage you've done from the weight cuts? I talked to Chris Lieben one time and he told me the weight cuts just really butchered him.

I know by the way, he's competing on the same card as you. Well, you know what? So after the last time I fought 170, my kidneys shut down. I bloomed up. So I walked, let's see, I fought on Saturday. On Sunday night, I got home.

I was 219. And I blew up like a balloon. And my doctor was like, hey, you need to go to the hospital. I was like, I know exactly what's going on. My kidney shut down. And I guess it went on for about four or five days. On Thursday, they rebooted. And whenever that happened, I went from 219 to 1.9.

99 and like 24 hours. Oh my God. And I didn't work out or nothing. And then that's whenever I was like, you know what? I'm going to kill myself. If I, you know, with IVs, and that's the thing is with IVs, the damage that you do by cutting weight, it helps, it helps you not kill yourself, you know, because like I said, all that stuff that's important to your body, you can't get it back in 36 hours.

You know, you can't get it back in 48 hours. But with an IV, it goes straight into your veins. It goes straight into your muscles in your organs. And it sends exactly where it needs to recover the best it can. That's why in every sport, what do they do? In every sport, if you're hurting or you're this or you're that, they give you IV. They're a huge part. And, you know, I remember back in the day, you know, I like to take them on Wednesdays.

I'd take like a half a bag on Wednesday just so that way it'd keep me from getting sick. It kept me from you know, it helped me where I could train hoarder on that, like so on Wednesday I would start fading on my training and then I would take an IV bag

in the middle of the day. I could train hard on Wednesday night, Thursday, Friday and it was like a brand new me. Let me play devil's advocate if I may, Johnny. And I'm sure you heard these. We've talked about this before on my radio show, but some folks they're going to point to the fact that once you saw it came around, your performance at MMA kind of dropped off.

Sounds like you're attributing that to the lack of the IVs, but of course the speculation is going to be that there was previously, theoretically speaking anyway, drug use that had to go away. So that you say what? Yes, yes, terrible. You know what? Here's the thing. Guess what? Those people are idiots. Okay, so even at me at 85.

So did I change at 185? Did I look bigger? Did I look stronger at 185? or did I have the exact same body at 170? Does that make sense? Yeah. Okay, so if I'm taking steroids, if I'm taking steroids, you would think that, okay, I'm going 185, I would have apps. You know, I would, I would look bigger.

Just because I was stronger than everybody else is because I work for a living. You know, when at age 12, I was out bailing hay. I was building fences. I was digging trenches. I did irrigation for summers. You know, like I've been working all my life. And you also got to consider that I've wrestled since I was five years old. You know what I mean?

Like that's one of the hardest sports in the world. And here you are. You're wrestling all your life. You're doing this. You're doing that. And I've always told everybody, if I need steroids to win, I'm not going to kill myself so I can win. so I can win a bout and die at age 50, you know, or 60.

I want to live a life. You know, I have four kids now and a wife that I got to take care of. They're more important than one bout. I'll just say this. Steroids have never been in my body. Any type of performance enhancement like that has never been. And that's why, you know, here's, I'll tell you this. I've been out of for what?

eight, ten months now. Anybody wants to test me. Anybody wants to test me. I'll do it in a heartbeat. And I'll always continue to, I'll say that until the day I die. I don't, I'm not worried about getting, filling a drug test because there's nothing in my body. Unless, you know, like I always said, unless Copenhagen and energy drinks are going to make me fill a drug test, I'm not going to fail one. So, you know, I just look at it as, and you know, and what sucks is that you've fought, these guys that I fight, they're going, he's too strong not to be on steroids.

And you're going, okay, just because God bless me with more strength than you doesn't mean that I have to take a, you know, a type of steroid to win. That's just not me. Are you a long-cut Copenhagen kind of guy? Yes, I used to do fine cut, but cutting down to 170, man, your mouth gets so dry that you couldn't spit it all out. Yeah. And you'd be walking around with, you know, half the dips still in there. So I switched a long cut, and then the week of the weigh-ins, I would go to pouches. The old bandits.

Well, there are Copenhagen pouches. Yes, they're like bandits, yes. But I would still stick with Copenhagen. I was always a long-cut guy because the short cut or the fine cut, it gets in between your teeth, and there's just no way to get it out unless you carry a toothbrush with you at all times. You know what I mean? Yeah, that or a toothpick. Yeah, I mean?

Like, you got to, hey, you know what? I'll tell you this. The best thing that I found out was gum. You chew a piece of gum after you dip fine cut, and then you throw out the gum and it picks it all out from your teeth. Well, you know what? I don't dip anymore, but it is a good life hack. Let's talk a little bit more about MMA if we can, Johnny, because the question would be, well, okay, it didn't work out for you in UFC at the very end there, but of course, you had a nice run in the early to middle parts. But why not go to Belator?

In fact, Belator this weekend has their own welterweight tourney. They can make a claim that maybe they've got the best welter weights, many of the best welter weights, certainly in their division. You can use the IV there conceivably. Why not continue your career there? Was that a possibility for you? It was, but then again, you know, I don't know. I just got to a point where sometimes it wasn't, it's who you, how much you're going to talk to get something. You know, are you going to be, how bad does the press want to follow you?

How much are you going to talk trash about this guy, this guy, this guy, this guy to get the fight? And, you know, for me, I've always been the guy that talking trash is easy. But for me, I just wanted to try. So realistically, I wanted to try out boxing for a little bit. And whenever the bare-knuckle TV, they came after, they talked to me, I was pretty excited because I want to see how my hands are. You know, I've been wanting to find out for a while how good is my strike? Because I've gone with some very, very talented boxers here in Texas. And it's just been a dream of mine.

I've been a huge boxing fan all my life. I grew up watching Tyson. I grew up watching, you know, the old classics. And that's sort of where my next crew led me. I want to talk about that in just a second. One last question about MMA, if I may. Do you feel about the sport? Do you still like it?

Do you still love it? Do you plan on being a fan? Do you plan on being totally distant? How do you think MMA will affect your life going forward? I'm coaching. I'm coaching. I got six fighters right now. They're all amateur. I'm working with them. And that's pretty much what I, that's my, you know, not only my coaching wrestling at a high school, but I'm also coaching six fighters. And I, you know, I'm probably, I would like to get to like 10 fighters where I'm coaching them all time. So I'll always be a fan of the sport. Okay. I just don't want to sit there and watch the back and forth. Does that make sense? I care about the fights. That's what I care about. So whenever, you know, Saturday nights, Friday nights, the local shows, Saturday nights, the big shows, that's what I care about.

What's your fondest UFC memory? You know what? My fondest UFC moment was probably my very first one. You know, excuse me, you're walking in there and you sort of see and you know, and you know, you know, you're in the best league. You know you're doing this. You know you're doing that. And you look around and everybody's there, they can't wait for the excitement of the fight. You know, and you step into the octagon. You're looking across. And whenever you see that guy and you're just like, man, and this is it. I have to, I have to perform now. Like that first

fight was the pressure was so high that it was hard to compete against it for the rest of my career. Because, you know, you got your shot. If you lose, you're most likely out. You win. You get to keep fighting. And that was sort of my defining moment for me of when you, as soon as they said fight, everything went away.

It was weird. Like nerves, everything. It just slowed down. And whenever it slowed down, the next thing you know, you're knocking them out, you're going, wow, I need to do that more. Let's talk about your fight now, as I mentioned, November 9th.

This will be WBKFF1, Rise of the Titans, and you're taking on Brennan Ward. Brennan Ward, a welterweight out of Bellator, something of a relatively similar position to you in terms of the end of his MMA career, now the beginning of his bare and knuckle one, a very, very scrappy competitor. What do you know about him and what do you expect?

You know, I don't know a whole lot of him. I'm going to do some, you know, these next couple of weeks is really what I'm going to start doing as I'm going to start focusing, getting a game plan together. I know that he is, like you said, on his tell end just like I am or I was. He's also, you know, he's going to,

I think what's going to happen is he going to be looking to land that right hand, just as I'm looking to land my left hand. The only difference is that with bare knuckle, you can't throw as hard as you want to. It's about accuracy. And that's what really makes me excited about this, because I am a very accurate puncher. You know what I mean? My accuracy is very well whenever it comes to seeing where the punch lands,

where it needs to land, and sort of what comes next. And with my partner, or with Tony Cabello, this is what he's done forever. You know, he grew up boxing. He's a boxing coach. Now it's about sort of getting it done and moving forward. I hear the little one in the back. I won't keep it too much longer, Johnny.

Just want to know, are you hoping to win? Because why else would you competing if you didn't want to win? But more than that, are you looking to score a knockout, which I know every fighter is, but I mean in this sense, given that there were so many questions about the disappearance of your knockout power in the latter stage of your UFC career? You know what? The reason why my knockout power left is, all right, so if you are sitting here doing this and this and this, and you're knocking everybody out, right?

Let's say you're knocking everybody out. What are they going to start worrying about? Are they going to worry about my wrestling? Are they going to worry about my left hand? You're right. So everybody I started fighting, they would circle to their right. and that it would stay away from my left hand. But with MMA, you can't just charge in there because they're four-ounce gloves.

You've got to worry about knees. You've got to worry about kicks. There's a lot that plays into that factor. We're boxing. Boxing, you can still, I can still use my power. And also, with that being said, is that nowadays, there's so much footage. And you also got to think, all right, Robbie used to knock people. out he doesn't do it anymore does that make sense once you hit it there's a there's a certain

point where you hit hard competition day in and day out you can't win everyone by knockout and i think that's what sort of pushed me like sort of hurt me in my sense is that i didn't fall back on my wrestling if i'd have fell back on my wrestling after i knocked out a couple people and the next one didn't happen the next one didn't happen if i'd have fell back to my wrestling started making people fear my wrestling again, I think my knockouts would have been back. Because then they would be like, oh, well, he might take me down, or he can knock me out.

Which one would I rather get done? Would I rather get knocked out on the ground? Would I rather get knocked out on my feet? And I didn't play it that way. I should have. But that's something that I'm also teaching my guys right now, is don't fall into, if you get a knockout, don't fall into that. keep keep every tool at your disposal, right?

And that's really what I should have done. Last question before we let you go. What is your plan for bare-knuckle boxing? How long do you think you'll do it? Man, you know what? I think I have a feeling I can do it for a while. You know, my first coach ever in MMA, he was a bare-knuckle world champ in Thailand.

Who's that? Okay. So it was a Oh man What's his name? Oh If you wouldn't have asked me I'd have been able to say that

It's all good It's on the tip of my tongue It's on the tip of my tongue I can see his face And he was striking Unlimited Okay Out there in Vegas Okay

That he's the coach for striking Unlimited And Ken Han Ken Han, there we go Ah, okay Ken Han And so He showed me a lot

of techniques, how to strengthen your hand and all that kind of stuff. Also, how you can actually punish the body and the, where to hit on the arms, this, this, what to look for. So I'm sort of going back to that stage as well. You know, where to hit on the arm, how to make sure that, like, you know, after the first round, let's say it goes past the first round, that he can no longer use his right arm, you know, because it hurts too bad. or his left arm because I keep punishing it the way that I, some of the game plans that I have in my head already, those things can help. Fair enough.

Well, as I mentioned before, November 9th, WBK, FF1, Rise of the Titans. This will be live on pay-per-view as well as Fight TV. It's going to have Johnny Hendricks versus Brennan Ward, Sean Merriman, the former NFL player versus Mike Bork, Chris Lieben versus Phil Barroni, a $100,000 lightweight tournament and a whole lot more. Always appreciate your time and your candor and wish you the best of luck on November 9th. Thank you. Thank you and you'll have a great day. You too.

There he is. Johnny Hendricks. Our friend Grabaka Hitman on Twitter said he was one of the best Walter waits of all time. Folks got mad at him for it. I don't know why. He's absolutely correct. All right. We have a limited time to do this.

So let's just get to it now. It's time, ladies and gentlemen, for me and Danny to do the sound off. All right. Let's go back. He's the Carlos to my vivis. I'm just saying stupid things now. I don't know why. Yeah, let's see how far you can get with your analogies. I'm curious. One day you will run out. I'm going to completely run out. All right, let's do this. We don't have a whole lot of time because we have to change the whole clock around for the show. But we do have time for the sound off.

Yes. You tee-em up and I'll knock them down. Let's go. Yep. Let's do it. Hi, this is Ian from Halifax, Nova Scotia. I just had a question. Why are you whispering like a weirdo? I'm just wondering if you think that is Connor McGregor actually good? for the sport of MNA, big picture-wise. All things considered. I'm just curious what you think about that. Is that a serious question? I mean, okay.

Am I not understanding the question there? I don't mean to be reading to the listeners. I always appreciate the calls. 844-866-24-6-8, as always. He's good at everything. He's not perfect at everything. He's better at some things than other. But people got mad at Dana.

Dana was kind of dancing around the question. Someone asked him, who's the best fighter ever. Well, the best fighter I've ever seen is John Jones. But the complete package, how could you not argue as Connor McGregor, even with the bus throwing incident? Yeah, I would have to agree. And his story's still not written yet. Sure. We'll see what happens in the future.

But yeah, I mean, he brought him to a different stage. The UFC, I mean, he's done so many things. So even the bus incident aside and a few hiccups he's had here and there, overall in the big picture, it hasn't really translated into getting a real black guy. Like that. It's a sport of Eminem. Here's the truth. If you want to say St. Pierre, I could entertain the argument. Obviously, he did big business.

Not quite as big as Connor, but he has a squeaky clean record. Because that's the kind of guy he is. I can entertain that. The issue is not whether Connor is talented at all those things. The question is, given that he is so talented, where does he rank among the all-time best? If the total package is included, if you don't want to put him one, fine. But he's at worst, what, five or something? Yeah.

Okay. For sure. All right. Let's keep it going. What's going on, Luke and Danny? This is Mike in Penful. I just wanted to pick your brain about the presser from the UFC 229 event. Was curious how you both felt about Connor, of course, doing his research about everything about Khabib,

but just curious what your reaction was to him bringing up Khabib's links to Magamadov and, of course, to Ramsun Kadearov. It seemed to be that Khabi was paying extra close attention when Connor was talking about all those links. and then when he called out a Leah Delaiziz at the end, I just found that incredibly interesting. Just curious as to how you both felt about that. It feels though we haven't necessarily had that kind of callout in MMA, or at least recently. Just curious how you guys felt about Connor bringing all that up.

Catch you later, guys. I had a bunch of different feelings about it, Danny. On the one hand, I felt like it was incredible that a guy would go to those kinds of details to undercut a rival. I thought that some of it, some of it I thought was a little unfair, some of it. I'll explain why a little bit later when we have Kareem on.

I thought, here's what I thought. If you just go after Habib with, oh, you didn't get off the bus, you shit on the bus, you know, you're a coward, you can't fight, or you die for ankles, you won't, you won't, affect him at all. It won't have any effect. However, if you started going after his life associations,

particularly those close to him, I think he will be more affected by that. And that's why he's doing it. Because frankly, and I'm going to bring this up with Kareem a little bit later, you know, kind of took a picture with Vladimir Putin. It's not like his record is squeaky clean either, but that never got mentioned because I think defensively, Habib found himself on the back foot a little bit there. Yeah, it was super interesting. I didn't think, I mean, I knew Connor McGregor always does his homework when he goes to a press conference. we saw that against Floyd Mayweather. He had a lot of things up his sleeve. But man, he went in great detail with Habib.

And it was sort of interesting to watch because it did get some sort of certain emotion out of Habib. Or at least for him to like acknowledge. And I mean, it riled up his manager. Ali was pissed and, you know, he wanted to get in there too. So he does his homework and he knows what he's doing. Might have he, he might have crossed some boundaries. Sure, maybe. Of course he crossed boundaries.

But. Intentionally. Yes. I mean, you. And I know Dana gets a lot of criticism for saying like, oh, you know, Connor McGregor is, is better than Ali at the mental warfare. Maybe. I mean, if you. I made this point before.

People got bitter at me for it, but it's the reality. Look, Ali is such a historically important figure. Yes. He was popular when it was harder to become popular. And he was part of the world, at least in the United States of America, at a time where the society was fracturing. And he was right along the fault lines on some of the most important. battles this country has had internally and was an avatar for

a lot of some of the most important and difficult issues America's had to work through. Connor just isn't that guy. He's just not. But when it comes to the gift of gab, and I know people are like, well, he was also making noises, like, meh-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha. Okay, that stuff was a little... I mean, it was juvenile, but I didn't care about it. But the stuff when he talks...

There were so many other things he did, I was just like, he's a nightmare. for anyone to handle, you know. Yeah. All right, shall we move on? Yeah. So this is from someone who took a different approach at, you know, digesting Carter McGregor's comments at the press conference.

All right. Hey, Luke. This is Brian Siskin, Colin from Nashville, Tennessee. So I can appreciate the points that you made around Conner's PR and verbal skills. And I totally get that here. But for me only to an extent, I feel like this presser, to me, felt like two other pressers that come to mind and stood out where

champions were a little over the top and their sort of, you know, their bravado and digging a little too hard to stir bad blood. It reminded me of the rousy home presser and also the Joanna Rose's first presser that they had. Am I the only

one who gets a sense here that McGregor's lost his edge actually a little bit? It doesn't seem as authentic as he has been in the past and of course I readily concede that he's the best you know, we're one of the best in terms of PR and, you know, returning to the message and talking over people. But I thought this one was a little bit like sort of off the rails. And I kind of felt like he lost his touch and he was having to try a little bit harder than he normally has and it didn't seem as authentic.

So I'm just wondering if you had any thoughts like that. I feel like everybody's talking about how great it was and how great he was. All right, all right, I get it. It's a good question. He's just going on there at the end. Yes. So I'm actually really glad you brought this up because I got to. ton of pushback for my assessment of him.

And I noticed everyone else did too. Our guys, I think Mark Romundi, and some other folks reacted to it and there was pushback. Shouts to my guy, the true Jordy, across the pond. He had a similar reaction to me and people pushed back against it. There is absolutely Danny, a cadre of fans out there

and not insignificant one that thought he was off the rails and he went way too far that have showed anything. It showed, yes, he's got some rhetorical gifts, but it showed some weakness. I can understand that perspective and I certainly cannot rule it out. I think a couple of things have to be mentioned here. Number one, the lack of an audience, I think really just forced Connor to ratchet it up a little bit.

Number two, you know, Habib is stone-faced. It's hard to get under his skin. You do have to go to the lengths of the earth to find something. So I think that also enabled it. But look, man, I mean, what do you want me to say? Do you want me to say that Connor McGregor recognizes that he's in the fight of his life? Because I think he recognizes he's in the freaking fight of his life. He has not fought MMA in two years.

He fought a boxing fight one year ago, which probably won't help him very much, substantively anyway, in this contest. He's got a guy from a part of the world where they eat glass for breakfast, who is undefeated, who has just the skill set to give him problems. There was no audience there. He's trying to launch a whiskey line at the same time. Yeah, he probably felt it, man. He probably felt it. So for me, I can understand that perspective, but I guess it's one of those Rorschach tests. Did you see a guy panicking or did you see a guy, yes, maybe going to, you know, 11 or 12 on a dial of 10, but was still basically who you thought he was.

I tend to lean towards the latter because I really want to stay out of these, well, who won the press conference? That's a proxy battle for the fight. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. Yeah, and it's also, Karma Greger is always evolving. And not only with this fight game,

but also the way he carries them. So if you look at the very first press conference he had in the UFC, is much different from all the others. And sure, there's still obviously some personality, Connor McGregor within all those, all that media that he's done, but he's changed over time. So I think this is just part of the evolution.

You know, we see someone that's a lot more successful than when they made their U.S. debut, has a lot more money, a lot more attention, right? So you are going to see everything get stepped up a notch. Would you agree? Yeah, I would agree. I just want to shout out there who they had a totally different perspective on it. They thought Connor was, yes, he was on the front foot, but only because mentally he was on the back foot.

I get that. I recognize that. I think there's evidence for that claim. but on the one head it's like what would you expect him to be? Like treating this nonchalantly? This is for sure. This is why I don't understand about some Connor fans. They're like, oh, Habib is totally untested.

Look at his record. He's fought no one. Well, then why are you, why are the odds so close? Why are you worried? Right? You want to say the opposite. You want to say this is the fight of his freaking life. If or another reason that he's been off for two years, because when he wins, if he wins,

all the fans will be able to say, you know, that guy is the shit. Not while he beat a nobody. No, no, no, no, no. Abib is easily the toughest fighter he's ever had. That doesn't mean McGregor Wendellus. I don't know what it means. All I'm saying is it's just this, to have that kind of confidence

would be a much bigger red flag than feeling it and trying to react to it. I agree. So now let's go on to the music choices for that press conferences. All right. Hey, Luke, this is Shavin Olsen from Raleigh, North Carolina. Two-part question.

One, with the U.C. now using drowning pool's bodies as the theme song for the press conference, what does it say about their opinion of their fans that have already gotten past puberty? Second part of the question. If they have, you know, they want to have this badass image, why haven't they hired anyone in their marketing department

who listened to metal after the age of 15? Thank you. Wait, wait. First of all, great question. Shouts to Raleigh. Shots everyone in North Carolina struggling with the hurricane. Is that true they played? Let the bodies hit the floor?

I believe so. I saw a lot of comments about that. I was actually in Times Square for the press conference. So we saw it on the big Megazilla? Yes. And believe it or not, they had no audio for it. It's a press conference. They had no audio for it.

And then like way later down the line, after like 50% of the people had already left, they decided to put on subtitles. And they didn't even match what they were saying. They were like delayed. Yeah. It wasn't the greatest turnout. That's a disaster. Yep.

Well, I want to. I mean, people are still going to watch the fight. Yeah, I mean, people were still wondering. Like, people would ask me like, oh, what is that? What's going on? Because, you know, there's still two guys arguing, right? He's trying to hand them liquor and everything. By the way, did you not look for a proper 12 over the weekend?

Oh, I did. So I did too. I could not find it. I couldn't find it. So when we get some, we're going to try some on the air here. Sure. All right. In any case.

In purpose of journalism, right? In any case, here's the thing. It's like, how is this still a thing? Right. Do you know anybody that listens to drowning pool at the body's at the floor? Do you know anybody that does that? No, and I'm glad I don't. I mean, I didn't listen to it.

when that was like a new song, much less a dated song. I don't know what to tell you, man. I've been fighting this fight. I have been, I have been pissing into the wind about their music for, I don't know how long. It's like, I'm going to a dying fetus concert at the Gramercy Theater in less than a month. You're not going to tell me I don't love metal. I love metal. I love metal a lot. But if you love metal, how is it you ended up on the ass end of metal that no one can reasonably defend other than it has recognizable power cords for people who read at a fifth grade level. I don't understand what the issue is here. I mean, we are one step away from just being unwitting juggaloes by being, you know, subject to this punishment by this

music. If they need some metal recommendations, boy, it's not hard, dude. It's super not hard to come up with I mean, even just, you know, put them some hip hop in there. Change it up, right? Like, who the hell listens to bodies? Like, does anyone even have that on their Apple Music list or Spotify? Like, it's just amazing at the choices that the USC makes for it. It's one thing about, like, well, is it bad or is it good? Right.

And that's a debate that in some ways it's hard to have because it's so subjective. Right. But there's no arguing about the datedness of it. These are not timeless Led Zeppelin classics, man. This is not when the levy breaks or something or, you know, let it be. Right. Or whatever, man. This is octopus's garden at best and not even that.

I don't, I don't, I really don't get it, dude. I have fought this fight and you're not going to win this argument based on merit because merit wins it easily and it never works. And in a way, it has like this, it brings this image of like cage fighting, you know, like, I think we're past that. It's 2018. Like, it's not 2009. You know, we make fun of juggaloes. We are juggaloes. We just didn't sign up for it.

All right, let's move on. Do you know what a juggalo is? Yes, I do. Okay, right. The show about UFC 230, which there's still tons of questions around it, even though we learned more information about it, right? Yep. Hi, Luke.

This is Gabriel from California. I think I called me like five minutes ago. I actually wanted to get yours and Danny's thoughts on the main event for UFC 230. It hasn't been announced. The press conference people thought maybe that we get an announcement there. Dana says that John Jones is fighting Alexander Gustafin at USC 230, but then again when Dana has usually said that,

it's usually been the complete opposite. So I just wanted to know what you guys thought would be a good main event for UFC 230. I know Dustin Fourier said him versus Nate for the 165-pound belt, but Dana has said that there hasn't been any talks of bringing a 165-pound division. I'm going to cut it right there. So basically, what the hell is going on with the main event of UFC 230? So we learned that Tyron Woodley is going to undergo hand surgery and will be out for 8 to 12 weeks. So you can't do the Covington fight.

Or the GSP fight for that matter. Exactly. And apparently Dana's saying that Jones is not in the mix for that. I don't know. Why is Jones not in the mix for that? Yeah. Hey, didn't I call this a while ago? Everybody's like, oh, the main event for UFC 230 is going to get announced to that UFC 21st conference.

I thought for sure it would. I don't know. I didn't think so. Why? I don't know. I just had a feeling. And it's just like everything's so centered around Habib and, you know, Conrad. I don't think they would throw anything in there.

I mean, look at like Pettis and Tony Ferguson is on that card as well. Has it ever got mentioned up? Nothing. Well, they don't need to sell that part. I mean, sure. It doesn't make sense to focus on it, even though I know that might hurt the feelings of certain people I understand. But realistically, you have a certain amount of dollars. They should go to the main event.

That's true. But, I mean, we're what, six weeks away? What's up with the U.S. I thought for sure. Here's the thing. Here's one thought I had. I was like, well, John would be available to do it, but they don't want to do it because they want to save face, right? Oh, it would look so bad if right after he got suspended or the suspension ended, he would be on there. But I'm like, if you're just going to end it 15 months, who gives the shit? Just put them on there. What's the better one? And I got to tell you, man, how do you think those other people on the card feel that they're going to be going to Mass and Square Garden and they don't even know who's going to be at the top of it? I bet you that there are some hard feelings about that down the line. That's just a guess. But I can't imagine that Poirier and Diaz just love the fact that they don't know, or maybe they're fighting in 165, or maybe they're not, maybe it's for a title, maybe it's not, maybe it'll be, well, it's going to be Colby Compton, maybe now it's not. Here's my own, I don't know who else you can do at this point, honestly, except TJ versus Henry Suhuto, which is a fine main event, I suppose, but

this late promoted and it's a fine fight, I'm not going to bag on it, but it's, I don't know, it just feels lacking in a way. It just feels, you know, cobbled together. It feels like, It's a fine fight on its own, but the way which is being packaged. It just feels like, you know, here, this is what you got. You know, take it. You know, it feels rushed. And the worst part about it is that this card is getting so much negativity. But if you actually look at it, it's a fantastic card.

Maybe the best card of the year. Tell folks. I mean, we got Dustin Poyer, Nate Diaz. Luke Rockhold versus Chris Wyden. Jacari Sosa versus David Branch. Derek Brunson versus Israel Adesania. And the list goes on. Fantastic card.

Yeah, it really is. And I don't, the people keep asking, and I don't know what the answer is. Yeah. Let's fire one more if we can. Cool. So I'm going to give you one more and I'm going to get the guests. Okay. So this is all yours.

All right. Hey, Danny, Luke. My name is Anthony. I'm from, well, I'm calling out of North West Nevada. Just had a quick question regarding Nate Diaz versus Death and Porier. Just kind of wondering where you guys both stand on that fight. Who do you guys think is going to win and so on? Do you think that his output that Diaz's,

output and and the pressure that he puts on people, do you think that's going to stifle Porre and maybe finish him or get a decision or do you think Porre has the punching power determination to stop Diaz? We know how durable the Diaz brothers are. So I'm just kind of wondering where you guys stand on that. Appreciate it. Great, great question. Apparently, I've always been mispronouncing Nevada.

I've been calling it Nevada and they get real bitter. Apparently it's Nevada, so shots to everyone in Nevada. I love this fight. I love this fight a lot. It made a lot of sense for me that when Diaz came back for it, you know, because Poirier is the more active, obviously, and I would argue, probably better all around talent. But the specific area where he excels, the two areas, I would argue, are also where Nate Diaz excels. And then they have sort of different concentrations of skill. They have different body types, which creates for different particular attacks.

and I just feel like it is going to be a very, very close fight. It wouldn't surprise me if the time off maybe hurt Diaz a little bit. But I don't know, I kind of doubt that. I actually think it's a bit of a coin toss, to be totally honest with you. Because I can see Poirier, if he really manages all the phases of the game. And there's a bit of what Roy McDonald did, which kind of making a wrestling contest, kind of throw him around, stay out of trouble, don't stay in his range. You can do a lot with that.

On the other hand, if Diaz is able to put the game where he's really good at, which is also, by the way, kind of in that box. range where Pari is really good at. It's a bit of a pickum fight because then there's going to be slugging it out. And then we know Diaz has a good chin and he'll pour it on. It's a three-round fight, but both guys are capable of fighting five. There are so many reasons to like it. This is one those fights where it's like, I don't want to put a title on just to make a title. But if there's any way to make that fight five rounds, that would be nice. All right. Let's go now to our next guest. I mean, if there's a person on earth who doesn't like this gentleman, I don't know who it is.

he's always busy in mixed martial arts, including this week when he'll be calling the fights along with our friend Sean Wheelock for karate combat. The one and only El Lwapo is here. Boz, we're rooting, ladies and gentlemen. Let's go see him on the Skype. There he is.

Hey, boss. Hey, boss, I've always wondered, what is tattooed on your palm? On this side, this means ki or chi. It's Chinese and Japanese. They have to go into the same kanji, and it stands for life force. and since I put that one on, I never lost a fight anymore.

So I figured, hey, it works. So I gave myself a long life. This is a very old Chinese symbol. Xiao, it's what it's called, and everything is a long life. So I promised my kids and my daughters to become 100 years old. And that's why I figured, you know, if this works, maybe hopefully this is going to work as well. I'm going to be 100 years old.

Fair enough. Well, I appreciate you making some time for us, boss. Let's get right down to it. I know you've got a lot of things going on. I want to ask you about some headlines. out in MMA and just sort of get your opinion about him. T.J. Dillishaw. I know he comes from that Bain Ludwig School,

and of course, Bang, it was one of your students. When you look at T.J. Dillishaw, where do you rank him among the Pound-Found best currently competing? Well, I would say top three for sure. I mean, it's unbelievable. I mean, Twain has been talking about it for such a long time against me. And when he started working with him all the way back at all for mail,

he said, but keep your eyes on this, he's going to be a world champion. Everything I tell him to do, he does it. even more. He's an incredible athlete, and he amazes Dwayne all the time. So, yeah, he's top of the list, top three for sure. Do you like the idea of him fighting Henry Sehudo? Yeah, I would love that. I would love to see what both these guys do. And he wants it as well. You know, DJ is one of those guys who's super competitive if he just wants to fight everybody. Fair enough. Okay, a couple more things I want to go over before we get to some of the specifics you're involved in. Where do you come down

on this whole John Jones-Usada situation? Oh, I don't know. I didn't hear too much about it. I hear that, yeah, it suddenly it's off. Instead of, it was one and a half year instead of four years, right? Yeah, one and a half, and then they bumped it down to 15 months. To 15 months. Okay. Well, you know, good for him, but I don't know.

You know, I read some other things that he has to talk about other fighters who are using or something. I don't know what the situation is there. I was very busy last week preparing for three or four shows in a row now because I got to do a professional fighters league as well, one row after another, constantly, and then now karate combat. And then in the end of the month, I have a seminar at Dwayne. So I've been on my computer preparing all these shows already because I know that once I start, you know, I might not have the time anymore. So that's why I want to online a lot.

Fair enough. And I want to get to those and just admit it. But I guess as a broader question, do you think you saw it's been a force for good in MMA? Yeah, it's not good if they changed the rules the whole time, you know, going down lower suddenly. And it's for no reason. I don't know what the real reason is behind it, you know. It's just saying that he is innocent. I don't know if that's the truth as well.

most of the time I stay out of it. If I don't know something 100%, it's the whole thing with Kavanaugh going on right now and that lady in the news. I always say, guys, we don't know if it's true or not from both sides, so I'm going to stay out of that situation. As long as I read about it and I know more about it than I would like to comment, but otherwise I don't.

All right, and then, you know what, we can skip that part. Okay, let's get to what you're talking about. Karate Combat, so this is crazy. This is going to be at the top. of the New York City Freedom Tower, September 27th, right? So how did, do you know the story of how this came to about? How are they putting on a karate or a series of karate fights at the top of the Freedom Freakin Tower?

You know, they look for these crazy places to go to. We went to Greece. We were in Miami at the beach there. You know, in Hungary, they've been everywhere. And they just find these really cool places to put them on. And who doesn't want to be there? I was, no, I'm looking forward to it. I mean, did you see the view?

I saw a few pictures on the 100 second floor. It's super high. We've got the whole city around us. And there we have the pit, the karate combat pit, and only a select audience. I think it's maximum 200 people can attend right there. And that's most of the time it's on invite. So I'm looking forward to it. I don't know how they pulled it off, but I'm very happy day pulled it up.

Do you think karate is making a comeback? I know 100% is making a comeback. You know, they're very smart because what happens in 2000. 20 in the Olympics, you're going to have karate. It's going to be back in Tokyo. So I think they anticipated this, and they saw it coming, and they go, you know what? Let's start a full-contact karate organization. Now, the rules are exactly the same as these rules, and in the Olympic, they are the same.

Only the Olympics, of course, it's not going to be full contact, and this is full-contact. But, you know, that's an easy pullback for a fighter once you're used to these rules to go over to the Olympics and perform there. So for folks who've never seen it before, what does full contact mean exactly? I've seen some of the knockouts. It's like, it's like, set the scene. You go, you said it.

You already saw some knockouts. Once people start getting dropped, that means it's full contact, you know? So it's with little gloves. You know, they have the four-ons gloves. They're really nice, really nice padding on the knuckles. They're not MMA gloves.

They have the padding, a little bit more padding on the front. And then for the rest is pretty much everything is, what's from karate is allowed. Now, we don't have low kicks allowed to the thighs, because, again, those are the rules that they're going to have Tokyo as well, but you can't kick to the calf.

There's no knees. There's no short hooks. They try to keep everything nice and lengthy. So the fighters or the people at home can see it more easy and can see the beautiful technique of karate. So long hooks, long straight punches, long kicks, they have everything. But no clinching. Once there is a clinch, you're allowed to take your opponent down.

It needs to happen immediately, though. And then once on the ground and he's on his back, if he doesn't pull guard, so to say, or hold you, you are allowed to give five seconds of, ground and pound to your opponent. And we've seen that a lot as well. And it's an explosive rule set. If you see it, if you see the fights, everybody till now seems to love it.

Yeah. And again, if you've never seen the highlights, I think they're everywhere. I believe it's going to air on fight pass, a bunch of other places as well. I would ask this, you kind of got into it.

But what did you learn about karate watching this that maybe you didn't know before? No, nothing, nothing really. You know, I just, I grew up with karate as well. I'm a Kikushin guy. It's also full contact, but it's bare a knuckle, and it's a different style, and it's a little bit more complicated for the people.

It's a very close stand fight. It's almost like a phone boot fight in Qasin. There's knees, and they throw loose knees, not even without a clinch they throw it. So that's different than this. This is, you don't have, they're not wearing a shirt on top, which comes in very handy because, you know, this little pinky here, it's really big. It's because I was doing karate, I was sparring. And, you know, some people, they have these very high hips, and they know that could be a problem.

for their opponent. So what they do, they put their belt a little lower below the hip. So when you think the liver is located there and you hit a hip, it's not good for your hands. So they don't have this in their karate combat. They only have a T-shirt and a long pants so you can see every target beautiful. So that's why people don't get injured. But it's awesome. It's a high adrenaline sport and a high, how do you say it?

No, just high action. Action paste. Action. Man, I can't find the word right now. I'm driving all over the roads. It's okay. Karate Combat One World, of course, will be on Karate.com. You can also get it on FightPass, CBS Sports Live,

and a bunch of other places as well. You mentioned the PFL. How do you think the first season is going? Are you able to follow? I mean, I know you're a commentator, so, of course, you're right in the middle of it, but the point system. How do you think the point system's working out?

I think it's working out great. I mean, everybody seems to love it, you know? Just like regular season, like regular sports. We have a season now. The playoffs are now. So next week we're going to have these fighters going to fight two fights in one night. Now you're only allowed to fight five rounds maximum in one day. So the first fight they have is a two-round fight,

and the second fight is a three-round fight. And I think that's what we're going to separate the boys from the man. I mean, it's going to be insane evening because all these guys are hunting, of course, for the million dollars. And all the fights we had before, you can see. I mean, we have an 85% finishing rate, I believe. The fighters really are going at it. Do you like not having the elbows?

I'm 50-50 on not having the elbows. What do you think about it? You know, I like it, but the reason they did it was, of course, because then they can fight the next fight, especially now two fights in one night. If you're going to get a clip to an elbow, but they cannot fight your next fight. So that's why they took the elbows out. Now, I don't show it up already before.

In December at the finals, elbows might be allowed, but I don't know 100%. Who has stood out to you in the tournament? that maybe you hadn't heard of before. Andre Harrison. I mean, we heard about him, but when he comes in, the guy's on the feed, there's 16 or 17 and 0 right now.

But everybody, it's such a crazy place that everybody's fighting in, on every fighter is excelling right now. It's just, it's just insane. I'm going to pull up here, fight eight, so that I can give you some names

because otherwise it's fun. There's so many. Oh, Stephen Siler, for instance. Stephen Siler is the guy's the comeback kit, we call him now. I mean, every time he gets rocked and it looks like

The fighters is over and boom, suddenly he comes back and pulls up this crazy submission out of nowhere. He did this twice in a row. Now he's going to face Malagari. Malagari is a very strong opponent. Lance Palmer, of course. He fights now. He fights against Max Goga from Germany, a really good German fighter, which I really enjoy because, you know, he has an equal record.

I believe, I don't know for sure. It's eight knockouts and eight submissions and a few decisions only, but these guys is equal good on the ground as he is on his feet. And we don't see that a lot coming from Europe. Under Harrison already talked to you about undefeated guy, but he's going to face Alexander Bizarra. Bezera, he had a very close fight in the past against Harrison. He lost, but

then the last time he knocked somebody out with the flying knee and I was interviewing him in the ring and he, when I told him he was going to face Andre Harrison, he got so related. I go, wow, this guy is really happy to fight the strong guy on the roster apparently. Timor Vali, I've been talking about him for a long time. That's an incredible talent.

I mean, this guy's all over the place. You will never see him make any repetitive strikes. Like he throws a front kick, it and it's a high, kick, it into low, kick, and this. And this point, and it's constantly changing with this guy. Calvin Tiller, the heavyweight. Man, I mean, he took Jared Rorschult down. And then he was from side mount, or he was in side mount. And from side mount, he made a 180 arm bar.

This guy is like 250 pounds. But the agility on him is crazy. He actually is going to face now again against the same opponent, Jared Rischold. Philip Lins, really good. Is Trefi. very knockout guy he just came out. He's actually in Kyle Ellen Carr, I believe, came in for that fight because the other one is injured. Now, another fight, Jack May and Jack Nicholson, Alex Nicholson, Alex Nicholson, those guys really don't like each other.

I had a podcast this week for the PFL, and we had them both on the phone, and you should have heard them talking to each other. They really don't like each other. So I think you're going to see a very explosive fight there. So all these fights are just insane, and this is just the first card for next week. Yeah, of course, Friday, October 5th will be PFL 8. It'll be the featherweight and heavyweight tournaments. Then you got Saturday, October 13th, light, heavyweight for PFL 9. And then my hometown of Washington, D.C. for PFL 10 on October 20th for middleweight and welterweight.

A couple more questions for you, boss, and I really appreciate your time. You know, I won't ask you to weigh in on the BJ Penn next fight situation, but I kind of want to know this from you. How did you know when you wanted to retire? Like, how did you know you were done? Well, for me, it was very simple. There was injuries. You know, thankfully that happened to me because I'm one of the knuckleheads also who's going to keep on fighting.

And eventually, you're going to hurt your record. Like, I'm very blessed with it. I didn't lose in my last 22 fights. That's a great way of getting out. You know, I tried one more time after seven years in 2006, and I thought all my injuries were gone, which were for the first four weeks. And then they came back and then some, you know, so I had a lot of injuries. And thankfully, that was, yeah, the Lord deciding that for me says you cannot fight anymore. So I didn't start fighting and losing fights against these young bugglers.

because let's face it, man, these young guys right now, they're so good, they're so in shape, they know everything. You know, in my time, it was still guys. I was good on the ground and I was good on the feet. And in my time, you could get away with that because a lot of guys, they were just, or strikers, or they were submission guys. But there was no, not a lot of fighters who had all three components. You know, I never was a good wrestler, by the way.

But now, all these guys are phenomenal everywhere. You know, they have a full gas tank. Nobody runs out of gas anymore like the old time, you know, I was always always making sure that I was in shape, because if you're in shape in the old days, you're probably going to win the fight because people were still running out of gas. Well, you don't have that problem now anymore as well. So I don't know.

So BJ is going to come back. It is true. Yeah. Yeah, he's going to fight Ryan Hall in December. Oh, wow. That's going to be a tough fight for him as well. So, but you know what, BJ is a guy. If he goes to a camp and he has a guy that he really, that he listens to, you know,

who can tell him. actually know you're going to have to do an extra round. So as long as he's not in control of the training, I see him winning this fight. He could be really good and performing really well. Last question for you. Really appreciate your time because I know you're a very, very busy man. You know, you have seen combat sports go through a ton of evolution, boss.

You were, of course, in pancreas. You've seen pride come and go. You've seen the development of UFC. How would you describe the state of MMA? On the one hand, as you mentioned, the fighters are better than ever. there's a new ESPN deal with UFC. On the other hand, I just kind of can't tell where the enthusiasm is for the sport.

How would you describe its state relative to maybe how it used to be or through its process and its evolution? Everything about it. I love the rules. You know, everything is there for the savior of the fighter. We've already tapped on it. You know, the fact that everybody's in shape

knows everything. I would like to see another weight class. I would see like a 235 or 230 pounds. I think the gap between 205 and 265 is way too big, you know, especially if you have a guy, who cannot come lower than 220, and then you're going to face a guy who cuts down from 180 or something to 280 to 265.

That's a big difference in the beginning. Yeah, in my time, that didn't really matter because some of these big guys didn't have any technique. But now you're going to have a guy at third degree black belt Brazilian jiu-chitsu on top of you who is 60 pounds heavier or 45 pounds heavier. Of course, that's going to be a problem because weight does matter, especially nowadays. I do sometimes believe that they should stop complaining if somebody's two pounds over, I go like, come on, guys, two pounds. It's a dumb thing.

I do believe also that they have to allow the IV back. I know some states there were some not. I think, you know, because of the way, they're not going to stop away. Granted, there was no weight class when I was fighting. But still, just somebody hit me on on Twitter this morning. He said, well, would you fight at $1.85? I said, probably, because if I standing next,

Tito Ortiz or Chocolat, or John Jones, I'm a midget compared to these guys. And they're my weight class, 205. So maybe I would go to 185. But I also said, if my body doesn't feel good, you know, we're beat up our, we beat up our body so hard. Two times a day, we go through all these things. You know, the one thing that you don't want to do is give, not giving your body what it needs. And that's why I always say fight at a higher weight class.

You're actually going to perform. but the fact that their opponent was cutting more weight than he was heavy than I said dude we're talking about 10 pounds what is this 10 pounds going to do is that reason I don't think so I never had a feeling that I thought if somebody was 45 pounds heavier than he was much stronger than me I think it's just a mindset you know and it's just making sure you're happy you're in your element and then and just like All right, boss, well, we appreciate your time. As we mentioned before, Karate Combat One World, this Thursday, September 27th.

There he is. Boss, thank you so much. We got to go. Thank you, buddy. I know the signal's a little bit bad there. Thank you, boss. Thank you. Thank you.

All right, very quick, let me plug one more time since we got all messed up. Karate Combat One World Thursday, September 27th, 2018. Thank you for, Bosn, Rutan for stopping by. The connection got all messed up. And then, of course, PFL 8, October 5th in New Orleans. Of course, that will be on NBC Sports. So big thanks to El Wapo for stopping by. We really appreciate him being here.

Okay, let's go to our friend of the show. We've never had him on before. I have him a radio show a bunch of times. But I said, you know what? Things are crazy in the mixed martial arts world. Let's go to the phones now. Our friend, Karim Zadan is here from, well, Karim, I'm not sure where you're from Bloody Elbow, the Guardian, foreign policy, a bunch of places, huh?

How are you? I'm doing well, Luke. Thank you for having me on the show. I must say it's a pleasure to make my MMA hour debut with you at the helm of the show. Well, long overdue, but here you are. Better late than never, I suppose. Let me just start open here, if I can. How surprised were you by what was said at the UFC 229 press conference? To be honest, Luke, I was completely taken aback, primarily because I had actually forgotten

that the press conference was on at that time, and I was out for a walk, actually, when it was started. So when I started getting all these tweets saying, well, the Pierce-Connor-Migretchen. has been reading Kareemian's work, I'm thinking, good call, what's going on? So I rushed back as soon as I could and caught up with the different quotes, et cetera. And mind you, I've had, I think it's best to state this on the record from early on. I've had no interactions with Connor McGregor whatsoever. So, of course, it certainly took me completely off guard. And then to see what he said about Alia Bollies afterwards, well, that not only had me laughing,

but of course took me off guard. It was quite a press conference. Now, there's two ways to go back and forth here. I actually, I want to be as fair as possible. I want to be on the record as possible as well. I did invite Ali to come on the show because if we're going to be talking about him, it's only fair that you give that gentleman a right to respond. He politely declined.

So I will reiterate that, number one, we invited him. And number two, if Ali is watching, and I probably is, we have an open door policy for him. He can come on any time he wants to discuss some of these issues. That's number one. Number two, let me start actually the opposite direction, because I know you've written a lot about, and Russia and some of the things that Connor mentioned.

Let me start in the interest of fairness the other way, Karim, and I know this is not your area of expertise or what you've written about, but just sort of you are literate about these issues. You know, Connor was going after Habib for some of his associations, which we'll talk about in just a minute. But this is a man who has taken pictures with Vladimir Putin quite openly. Now, one of my favorite athletes in the world is Alex Lvetchkin. He's done the same.

So I don't want to be a hypocrite. But what can an MMA fan ascertain about that relationship? does that matter at all? And if so, why? I'm really glad you mentioned that, Lou, because immediately the first thing I can tell you is a complete hypocrisy on Connor McGregor's part. Because if you're going to be calling out Khabibnur Magamatov, just specifically, let's say, on this one, for his relationship or his links-type association in the past to Ramzan Kadyrov, the Chechen dictator, well, then you can't have a picture taken with your arm around

Vladimir Putin, who is not only Kadeurov's enabling. but his benefactor as well. The reason Kadyrov exists and the reason the spectra and the monster of Kedirov looms over Moscow right now is because of and over the UFC is because of Vladimir Putin. So to take a picture with Vladimir Putin, call him a great leader. And at the same time, insult Khabib, or target Khabi for a relationship or whatever sort of links he has to Ramzan Kadyrov. Well, that's just complete hypocrisy.

And that should be noted. I mean, I noted it in my article when I did so. will be noted to get again when we do a feature specifically on Connor McGregor, just like we did on on Habib Narmagam, made up all in the name of fairness as well, as you mentioned before. It has to be noted for MMA fans that, yes, what he said was quite important, and it should be noted that Habib has had all sorts of odd and questionable interactions with Ramzan Kedero, but for McGregor to go and then go to the World Cup, apparently, according to McGregor himself and the invitation of Putin, and to take a picture and pose with him, which only enables a leader like,

Vladimir Putin, such a controversial world leader right now, only enables him. Well, that's not a good look for McGregor either. For folks who don't understand, and again, Alex Ovechkin's done it too, and I love Alex Ovechkin because he's with the Washington Capitol, so I don't really know how to feel about it. But for folks who don't know from a broader perspective, like, why are world leaders and athletes seemingly feeding off each other for what appears to be mutual gain? What is that the essence of that relationship, whether it's Ovechkin or Nirmigameh or

McGregor or whoever? It's a form of soft power or sports deploy. The world leaders, and this has gone on for a very, very, very long time. We can go as far back as even Hitler using the Olympic Games and further back than that and everything in between. We have seen world leaders weaponize and manipulate sports, especially global events and athletes whenever possible over their popularity. And they do so for a variety of reasons that absolutely depends on the leader who are discussing and what the country is like. It could be a play for more popularity or to be won over by a different segment of the population when it comes to a boat or something.

It's a fantastic way to distract from ongoing human rights accusations, which is what Ramzan Kediorav does a lot with its use of mixed martial arts. It's something that's achieved in Bahrain as well, which is a country in the Middle East for those who aren't to wear quite close to Saudi Arabia. They have done this for a decade now with the Formula One event. So the Formula One is used as a fantastic way to sports wash all sorts of crimes and on horrific human rights abuse that goes on in places like Bahrain. Egypt has done the exact same thing, which is my native country. I mean, the list goes on and on when you associate with popular athletes, especially when the average Joe or the average person, the average sports fan,

doesn't really make the distinction or doesn't really factor in concept of politics or other sorts of propaganda occurring in their sort of sacred platform of sports. So it's very easy for that sort of subconscious message to be sent by a world leader that, oh, well, look, if I'm hanging out and I'm rubbing shoulders with all these popular athletes, that must mean I'm a popular person. So a lot of people, a lot of just average citizens, take that in without considering much of the other options about how this could be a form of propaganda and accept that. So we see this time and time again, especially it happens ahead of campaigns, head of intense elections, and it happens when a world leader has something they want to hide or wants to present his country in a better way on a global stage. Most recent example of that is Vladimir Putin with Russia at the 2018 World Cup. It's a fantastic example of soft power and sports diplomacy in action.

How come we see it in MMA and I don't see people like Anthony Joshua or Peyton Manning or I know most of the law kind of got wrapped up in it at the World Cup, but even then he seemed to actively resist it. Why does it appear to be more often in MMA than other sports, or is that just my imagination? Well, unfortunately, the UFSI hasn't taken any steps to minimize this sort of interaction with world leaders. And because MMA remains, quite frankly, a niche sport.

It is not a mainstream sport, and I can't see any legitimate argument for it being a mainstream sport at the moment. People tend to assume that this is to be expected. It's a corrupt sport with a... with all likelihood that world leaders could take advantage of it. But there's another key factor, I think, that's involved in why MMA in particular. I would also say that it's not specifically MMA. There is, I mean, we see it in football all the time in soccer, that is.

And Monsalach, yes, he was one of the first people to speak out against Kavir. But there's been a whole host of other people, including the 2002, like the World Cup winning team from Brazil. They went and visited and never complained about it. Rinaldino was there recently. He never complained about it. So we do see it with other sports. It's a matter of how popular the sport is. But with MMA, it also has the added element of it being a violent combat sport. And for someone like Ramzan Kadiro, whose whole image and ideology is built on this hyper-masculinity and this machismo that he is spreading throughout Chechnya now, well, then mixed martial arts is the absolute perfect platform to spread that ideology. All right. So Connor made a series of claims that we've tried to unpack. I know you've written about them. There's a gentleman whose name I cannot pronounce on the

first end, so I'll let you do it. His last name is Megamadov. I guess his first name is Ziavuddin. I'm sure I botched it. But who is this gentleman, and why did McGregor bring him up? He honestly did not watch that. His name is Ziavuddin Magamadov. And he brought him up because Magamadov is a well-known Dagestanian oligarch and really one of the only wealthy men of that level from Dagestan to ever rise into sort of that oligarch circle in the Kremlin. So he had a fascination with mixed martial arts and invested

in fight nights, which was one of the top promotions in Russia. And it quickly rose to compete with the likes of M1 and ACB very, very quickly, and ended up even hosting a fatal million ankle fight. And as I may fans know, that's an expensive fighter to sign. So all that money

came from oligarch Magamatov. And that also included starting up a whole fight club over there called Eagles MMA, which Habeeb and Ramadavadov was instated as the president of. So he was paid a salary as the president of the Eagles MMA Fight Club. So he naturally benefited from this oligarch to an extent. And Magamato bought Habib a car after one of his victory, the car that someone ended up crashing

on Chabib's part or something along those lines. Still a very confusing story there. But he helped him out in many different ways, give him a lot of gifts, and reportedly paid for for Maghamedov's surgery last year and multiple other incidents like that helps him out a lot with paying for fight expenses and training camps. So, I mean, Ziavadim Magamato was very, very influential. He didn't just do this for Nirmagamato because he was a champion. He did this for a lot of other fighters from the North Caucasus and Dagestan in particular.

So he was very, very, very influential on the reason. And then earlier this year and around March, he was arrested under embezzlement charges. and for apparently trying attempting to set up an organized crime group in Russia. Now, I should stress that, yes, all these charges are there. They apparently have a lot of evidence about it, but I find it very interesting. Very, very interesting. This cannot be understated that the entire Kremlin and the oligarchy is corrupt. So for them to arrest the Abadim Magamara, there was clearly something about him

that upset Putin or upset the upper echelon of Kremlin's inner circle. And so this is not to necessarily say that he is the most corrupted and most evil of oligarchs out there at all. But it was important to link to highlight how influential one oligarch was in maintaining the careers of so many different fighters and even enemy promotions. So we've seen fight night actually collapsed significantly without the Abadim Magamatta ever since he's been arrested. And he continues to be in jail awaiting trial, by the way, and they won't release bomb bail. So we've seen fight nights with retract its entire international schedule, let go on a lot of its top fighters. And like, for instance, Nikita Krillov, who was just champion at Fight Nights now back in the U.S.C. So it's very interesting to see just how important one figure can be.

And I mean, that in itself is a negative aspect of Russian MMA, really, of that for it to flourish, for it to truly flourish, because people seem to think we're in some sort of renaissance in Russian. M.A. When the truth is, we just have a lot of wealthy men who are very, very interested in investing in mixed martial arts in the region there. So, yeah, when McGregor mentions that Habib had someone who was paying for him, and now it's all gone and the well has evidently dried up, that seems to be coming from, directly from the articles I've written about, Yavidemagamara, and to an extent, it's quite accurate. Let me play devil's advocate if I may. No, no problem. Let me play devil's advocate if I may.

Whatever we want to say about how Russian society is organized and how economically it is organized, this gentleman Magamatov is not the only oligarch. What is the problem in taking financing from him? Yeah, I'll leave it there. What's the problem? Because it's difficult, right? Some of this is like, do you really want to make enemies with powerful people on a place like that? You know, it's an open question there. It's absolutely true.

There's a lot when we're talking about Habib's links to these people, like the oligarchs and to, to, Ramzan Qaeda of this. It is a very complex manner. It's not a black and white situation where you can immediately say, well, this will, Khabib is clearly evil. Khabib is clearly a horrible person. And I don't write these articles with the intent of passing judgment. That is, that is the first point. But for me, it is important to state these facts. It's important for people to understand and to be aware of how the fight game operates. And that's even Khabib, a fighter who is at the height of his career right now in the UFC, required this level of support from an influential figure in Russia in order to maintain his career at the rate that he actually wanted.

His training camps were paid for. He had surgeries paid for him. He had all sorts of help and backing. And I thought that that was important to note. Now, it became a lot more significant to me, a lot more significant once Magamatov was arrested, and it became clear that this is a man who was arrested for embezzlement and organized crime charges and was currently in jail. Yet, Khabibn Maghameda decided to use a post-fight interview inside the UFC Octagon to plead with Vladimir Putin to release Magamato. Now, that is an outward political move that was done within the UFC's octagon. I forgot about that. I've never commented on this.

Chabib never comments about this. But it's important to note these things. It's important to note that a UFC champion just used his post-fight speech to plead with Russia's controversial leader. It's very important to note that. So it's clear that Chabibib is using his power, his leverage, to try and influence the trial or the judgment that's about to be passed on Ziyabuddin Magamara, who as of right now is guilty of certain, or at least as being charged with organized crime and embezzlement. So whether this, for some people, it's immediately enough to pass judgment on Chabid. I don't think it is. It's not my intention.

But like I said, again, I'm here to stay. fact. And this is important. If it wasn't for me, nobody else would be writing this article referencing Ziavabuddin Magamato. So somebody had to do it, Luke. Fair enough. There's other figures here in the interest of time. Let's move along. Now, you and I have talked about Ramzan Khadirov a lot. You have written about Ramzan Khadirav a lot. I'd like to focus the conversation because there's so many things we could say about Ramzan Khadirav. But the way in which Connor brought it up was about his father, Habib's father apparently, Abdulmanab, taking a picture. I believe that a mosque is what he said with Ramon.

on Kadeirov. This is the one area where I have a fair degree of sympathy for him, not because I think highly of Rumson Kadirav, but because it just seems like if that guy says jump, you have to say how high for fear of safety, or am I misinterpreting it, Kareem, you take this away. You are not misinterpreting this. Look, this is one of those points where I thought, and this is the first thing I went through my head was, oh, like, Connor is messing with, with tensions and the geopolitical concept. I don't think he's completely. educated on. And it's important to note what you just said, look, which is that you cannot resist Ramzan Qaddeerop's will, especially if you reside in the region. Now, it's not, and that people can say, well, Abdu and Manap is in Dagestan. Dagestan is separate to Chechnya. Well, yes, it is important to note that Chechnya and Dagestan are very distinct. Just because of the North Caucasus, just because that they're Muslims does not make them similar at all, the matter of fact, a very different kinds of people, very different dialects, speak very different languages,

and have different cultures and background. Yet, Ramon Kadyros has continued over the years not only to strengthen and cement his position of power within Chechnya, but has expanded that influence outside of the borders of the Chechen Republic and into places like Dagestan and Ingushetia. Now, he has done this by pushing his private army, the Kadyrovsky, into these locations and spreading all sorts of intimidation and fear, which he does on a yearly basis,

and easily searchable online for people who want to follow up on what I'm saying right now, since we can't get into too much detail. So Ramadan Kedurov is, again, that menace that looming over the entire region, and created by Putin, by the way. So for Kahn Mnagreb to bring all this up and to insult Abdulmanap as being a coward for having to associate with Ramadan Kedurok is entirely unfair, absolutely unfair. Mahmd al-Manap is very limited in what he can do, and I think the same applies to Habib Narmagamadev.

If Chabibb Naramah Madaf is invited to, say, host a seminar in Ahmed M.M.A. Fight Club and Grosny. Well, he can definitely say no, but that no will be very, very costly to him and his family. He could be pressured to do something afterwards. All sorts of things can happen. I'm not saying Ramzan Qadir if will come out to kill him, because when it comes to influential figures. You have to handle them a little differently, but a lot could happen to his family in Afghanistan. It's a very, very difficult situation. So a lot of people choose to, you know what,

I will interact with Kedarov. I will say what he wants me to say on Chechen State TV. And I think it was important that I noted within the article that all the complementary things Khabib had to say about Kedero, he said so on Chechen state television, where he knew he had little choice but to say these extremely complementary things. Again, part of Kavirav's propaganda. to spread these fantastic quotes about himself, said by other athletes, that his own people could just buy them as facts. So, yes, Abdan Manap is in a very difficult position, and the more popular he becomes, the more popular Khabib becomes in the region,

and the more in-demand he is by such dictators as Ramzan Kibirov, well, people like Abdel Manap will have little choice but to do things like that. And regarding that picture in the mosque, if I'm not mistaken, if it's the same picture I am thinking about, I'm not quite sure Abdel Manap was in the picture. I think he took a picture of Ramzan Kediro at the pilgrimage in Makkah and then had the caption beneath it saying, together we are stronger. And, I mean, a lot of Pakistanis will not be happy with a statement like that.

But it's nothing that they would ever publicly say against Ramzan Kedero. That's how influential he is. It goes beyond the borders of the Chechen Republic. I've even written an article for that talks about how Ramzan Kedipov influence and he has actual people on the ground in places like Austria and Germany. That's how significant this human being is. All right. So that brings us to the last figure. I think of the three you noted, the Megamatov gentleman Ramzan Kadyrov and then his manager, Ali of Del Aziz. Now, as I mentioned before, I reached out to Ali this weekend to see if you wanted to come on to talk about the presser. He politely declined.

The opportunity to do at a future date is always open for him. And I also would like to narrow this focus. I know there were some claims made, including by Connor himself, about Ali's family life. For the purposes of this conversation, because I know your reporting doesn't really focus on that. I'd like to exclude that. At least, I'm not saying those questions

aren't necessarily irrelevant, but not for the moment. I would like to focus this on what your reporting has been about, number one. And number two, I also think that there are plenty of fair criticisms to make of any individual,

but I also feel like he's a little bit of an unfair punching bag to some for the wrong reasons. But that being said, there's a lot that needs to be said about this that I think has gone improperly covered. So you have the floor, Kareem.

Were you surprised by Conner's criticisms? And what is the relevant thing to know about him? I was extremely surprised about McGregor's comment. It's almost like he had this

bone to pick and it was the timing that I thought was interesting. It wasn't like the statement that he had to get out during the press Congress. He waited to the end. He waited to he actually heard Ali speak that, I don't know. He clearly had something prepared for Ali Abduliz. I mean, it has to be noted. The comments that particularly were that definitely caught me off guard was the terrorist snitch

comment. And, I mean, it's really not difficult to go online and do Google search and to find a lot of information that based back to this discussion. And, I mean, Connor McGregor certainly did his research there. But the comment, and this is something I reference in my feature, it appears to be a reference from the book The Enemies Within, and the book mentions an Egyptian mixed martial arts expert by the name of Ali Abdelaziz, who was recruited by the NYPD in 2002. Now, the authors in the book go on to state that the NYPD and the FBI, the FBI in particular, felt that Ali Abdelaziz was being very deceitful in his reports towards them. So it appears that Ali Abdeliz was in jail, and this is coming again from this book and the very different reports that you find online.

state that this is not from my own personal original reporting on the matter, although I'm taking much, much, much more interest in that now, and as we speak about this. But it appears that he has been charged with document forgery was in jail and had been taken out of jail and became a top informant for the NYPD looking into and reporting on the rural Virginia group, the extremist group known as the Muslims of America. Now, if we put two and two together, it appears that's where the terrorist niche comes from with regards to Connor McGregor. And since we don't want to get into the rest of the time, you can't completely understand. I'm certain, though, that in the next few weeks, a lot more information is going to come out. We've got a podcast to look forward to

by Mike Russell. And apparently a lot of public documents will be out there in the open for us to see. So there's definitely going to be a lot of time for us to delve into this and to talk about that specific aspect and a lot more detail in the weeks to come. But I think it's important to note based on what we know about Alibaldives, these certain specific things. One of them is when we talk about the UFC's links to Ramzan Kedirov through the Ahmed MMA fight club. It is impossible to reference that without noting Ali Abdelaziz. Now, why? Because Ali Abdullaziz is the only manager who manages Ramzan Kedirov's fighters in the UFC.

The only manager and Luke that is no coincidence. He is the only manager who decided, I'm happy to consort with this dictator. I'm happy to sign his fighters and I'm happy to bring them into the UFC so that's happily courting a dictator and being his propaganda tool and I find that extremely alarming

and to confirm that this is just no coincidence it wasn't only Ramzan Kadirov that he has consorted with he also consorted with the Bahrain, Bahrain's monarchy and authoritarian regime through one of the princes in Sheikh Khaled bin Hamad al-Qalifa. Now Sheikh Khaled started the KHKMLAFE fight club

in Bahrain. Again, another authoritarian leader and enemy enthusiasts who felt the needs get involved in the sport. So there's a clear trend going on there, but his fighters now, here's another thing that McGregor, and I find it very interesting that Connor McGregor did not mention the Sheikh Bahrain. It's because of this. It's because

there were several fighters from SBG who were actually also brought on to the, by Sheikh Khaled, and who ended up training and had a sort of a relationship going on. And there was John Kavana as well, was involved in this relationship with the Bahrain

authoritarian regime through the KHK Fight Club. Now, I believe none of them are affiliated with the Bahrain anymore. But that was how it began. When it began, Ali Abdelaziz had announced that Khabir Maghemadov would be training at the KHKMMA facility, but that John Kavanaugh would also be at the KHKMMA facility. And all these people were involved in this big, great thing with Bahrain. But it was Ali Abdelaziz. It was the only UFT manager who had consorted with not only running,

Jonathan Kedero, but with a Bahraini Sheikh as well. So this is a manager who is willing to put his fighters in that level of harm and has no issues with the PR repercussions that come from something like that. I see that as a toxic influence on the sports.

All right, let me play one more time, if I may, because this is, in the interest of, again, in the interest of high degree of fairness, I have spoken with Ali about some of these issues directly. And what he tells me has been, look, man, I don't say that I have a perfect past, that I've made mistakes, but look at his clients. He's only ever lost one client, and they're still

on amicable terms. His other clients, Kayla Harrison, Henry Sohudo, Habib Numergamedov, I mean, it goes on and on, David Branch. They're all really happy with him. I've talked to them about Ali. They profess nothing but strong sentiment. So to that, you say what? A manager who has done well and is well-liked, but maybe had some previously past questionable associations, should we forgive and forget? Are these issues in your mind still relevant? Well, I think they're relevant because, A, we can't take a, of course, a fighter who's happy with their pay. Very happy with their pay because all the abilities, yes, as a manager, gets the fighters paid what they want. But let's not forget that when he was in World Series of fighting, the reason a lot of those fighters that he had there were getting paid that much is because of the conflict of interest with him being a manager and at the same time, the Vice President and matchmaker of World Series of Fighting.

So to an extent, he's used his own corrupt power and influence. to help his fighters, and of course, a fighter who's reaping the benefits of this and is actually making some money for a change. Not that I'm saying they don't deserve it in the slightest. Fighters deserve a lot more money than they're making. But when some of them, the few who do achieve that level of money that they're happy with, of course they're going to kiss the feet of Ali Abdelaziz, because that's how desperate the UFC has made its fighters. The UFC has brought fighters to this level.

That's why UFC fighters consort with dictators as well, Luke. That's why they accept invitations from Ramzan Qadir for $100,000, if not more. Because the U.S.C. does not pay them properly. Dana White has the gall to come out and talk about $7 billion in a company. You know, why? Because the revenue is not fairly split up. And if the revenue is not fairly split up, you're left to jackals like this, like these dictators, like Ali Abdelaziz, who can manipulate you because you do not make enough money to argue with them.

So, of course, a fighter is going to say they're happy with Ali Abdelaziz. Why? Because they're being paid. And rightfully so. They're not going to care about his past. How's it influencing them? Are they going to go to jail for his past? Are they going to go to be blamed for his past? When things happen in the end, people are going to remember Ali Abdelaziz. They're not necessarily going to remember the entire roster of clients. A lot of these fighters just want to get paid and to take care of their family. So to an extent, I understand what they're saying. I understand why they're saying it. And when I blame someone from that, I blame the UFC. How ugly do you think this thing is going to get? I mean, Connor has brought to light some of some of his own issues, his opponent's issues, and is treading along, as you have documented quite ably, some, I mean, it feels like it's a powder keg. I don't know that it's going to get to a degree that's terrible, but I certainly worry. What do you think is next? And just like you, I can't confirm if it will get terrible or not, but the topics he's bringing up about this rivalry between trash and

in Dagestanians, and we're talking about an old, old geopolitical rivalry and geopolitical history that exists between two very, very, very different groups of people. So to bring these sort of things up at such a tense moment ahead of a fight, to call Habib's father a coward at this time to reference Ramzan Kediro, to bring up, like, I mean, just referencing Ramzan Kedira, there have been Ahmed M.MA fighters, one who's actually quite a notable prospect, too, and Hussein Khalid, who have come out and actually threatened Connor McGregor since then, saying you will rue the day you said these words about our Chechen Dixit. Again, I'm paraphrasing right here.

But here is the one quote. You better apologize now. That's a standard thing Ramzan Kedero says to people who speak out against him. He expects a public apology. McGregor doesn't give that public apology. We could see tensions ramp up leading into this fight. We can see massive groups of fans from both sides at the event, and it could lead to violence, potentially. So, I mean, the UFC naturally is well aware of all this.

They know what it has already stated there's going to be extra security at the event. But sometimes I look at all this, and I look at what's happening, and I come to the conclusion, is this all really worth it? Is it worth the risk that you're about to take? Is it worth the horrible PR and the nightmare this can call it if all these things that are referenced now come to a head at this event? We're talking about dictators involved. We're talking about all geopolitical rivalries here. Chechens and Dagestanis involved and the Irish on the other end. And the really awful thing that's come out of this as well, look, is the amount of Islamophobia and just pure ugly racism I've seen on my timeline since.

Whenever Khabib is mentioned now, there's so much reliable about that go check and all these horrific things that are being said. This is also what McGregor's press conference has brought out of people. So it's just going to get extremely ugly on so many different layers in the next few weeks. Well, you're fun to talk to, Kareem. I know, I know. This is all I care about is the fights. And here comes Kareem being like, you know, everyone's connected to dictators, right? Well, I'll tell you what, Kareem, you're a brave guy.

You do reporting that, let's just call it like what it is. Basically, no one else does, right? And it's important. And I think that it is fair, and it needs to be heard. So you can follow Kareem on Twitter at Zadon Sports. And yeah, man, I look forward to seeing what's next. And thank you for your time. Thank you for having me on, Luke.

And, yeah, like you said, I'm looking forward to what's coming in the next few weeks to say that McGregor and this whole UFC 229 events are giving me more work to do than I think I have actual time to write articles in. Well, if anyone's up for the task, it's you. Thank you, Kareem. Thanks, Luke. Take care. All right. Good Lord.

Who knew? Who knew, man? You just sign up to be an MMA journalist. and you think all you have to worry about are, you know, hey, who's got a better double leg, man? And then dude start gallivanting around the world with, you know, freaking crazy people, world leaders. And the whole thing turns on its head.

And sometimes you just can't believe it, right? I mean, I think that's the reaction from a lot of people. So we'll continue to follow the story and see where it goes from there. All right. So I believe, I believe. I believe we are finally going to get our last guest of the day. We're going to extend the amount of show that we do to accommodate this gentleman because he had some things

that he had to rearrange. But he will be joining us in just a moment. I believe we're going to have Malki Kawa on via Skype. Because Lord, no, excuse me, phone, phone. Because, well, you know, John Jones had a big week last week, which means Malki Kawa had a big week last week. And, well, we all know John won't talk to me. But Malki might.

So hopefully we can get him on here in just a second. Man, after a Kareem Zadan interview, I need a cigarette and I don't even smoke. Yikes. It's good stuff, though. If you haven't followed Kareem, I don't know what you're waiting for, right?

Zadan sports. And, you know, he calls it like it is, but I don't think he's an unfair guy at all. You know, but it's deep topics, man. Super deep topics. So, So, all right. Let's put that out of our heads for just a second if we can.

Waiting on one, Mr. Kawa, keeping me at bay like a Heisman. Waiting on him now. What's the most important question to ask Malki, right? What was the last year like? I mean, there's so much to get to. You know what I noticed as we wait for him to come on? I saw in the aftermath that people were upset about the punishment inconsistent standards, or at least the perceived inconsistent standards.

But they were more upset. I even saw people outright saying, like, I don't even really care if he used, and this is all alleged or perceived. It's just the flipping on people. That's what they really cared about. So we're going to talk to them about that now. All right, joining us on the hotline now.

Our last guest of the day is the manager to John Jones long time, long time confidant for the guy. Malki Kau is here. Hi, Malki. How you doing? Long time, no talk. I know, I know. Well, you guys have been in the bunker,

but I guess I can understand it. Thank you for making some time for us. Let's get right to it, man. What was the last year like for you guys? You know, that's a good question. It was actually a very rough year. It was a very rough year. I mean, listen, it was rough year.

You know, when you say for you guys, I'm assuming you're asking me about John and stuff like that. But, yeah. And I mean, it was a rough year for us when it came to John because there was a lot of work that went into this thing with you saw it and all this other stuff and there was a lot of other things that would you call it. A lot of, you know, just a lot that went into this whole thing.

So, but it was a good, I mean, they ended up working on all right. So, you know, you can't complain. It's just, you know, you've got to deal with the emotions sometimes of a client and the things that they go through and the ups and downs of what happens. And that's kind of like, you know, that's kind of like where we're at with this whole thing. Like what happened this whole year is just a lot of things behind the scenes that people didn't see. And so it was rough. It was rough for John. And, you know, it was rough for us because obviously, you know what I mean?

We dealt with it. So, and I'm not talking just the investigation or anything like that. I'm just talking about just mental state and, you know what I mean, emotional state and just, you know, wondering what was going on about, you know, you know, the thought of when you were going to fight again and all the other stuff. So it was a rough year. It was a really rough year. All right. I think that things are in a way better place.

Certainly looks that way. All right. So let's talk about a little bit of that. The 15 months, I know you probably feel like that's the best outcome that was reasonably attainable. Why did it take so long to just get what was more or less time served? Because I think you sort of had to really dig into a lot of the things that were surrounding this case, you know what I mean?

You have to look, you know, listen, common sense would have told you from the get-go. Remember, it was you that asked me originally if you thought, what was my thought if I had to give it a percent chance of him coming back this year? Yes, it was. Okay. So I said 95% chance at that point in time. And at that point in time, you know, we had just dug into what was going on with

Usada. And, you know, we obviously had all these lawyers working on it, and they did a phenomenal job of putting this thing together and really going through all the facts and testing everything and just kind of going through everything that happened. And so when I really looked at it, and I sat down and we looked at it, and the UFC looked at it and you saw it looked at it. Immediately the conclusion came, like, okay,

you can tell that there was no cheating or intentional cheating here. There wasn't any because the amount that was in his blood was so small. They compared it to taking a pinch of salt and throwing it into an Olympic side swimming pool and then calling basically the pool salty. That's what kind of everybody's doing, right?

Like, hey, the pools, it's saltwater because, you know, it's in there, right? but it was so little that they knew you can tell from all his other previous tests and everything that there wasn't any foul play there and there's no advantage to doing this so psychologically right when you sit down and look at this why would a person do this why would they try to put a little bit of stuff in them right the week of the fight or two weeks before the fight or even you know the day after they got tested the last time before the fight's coming up when you know that the one test you know is coming is the fight night test so you start you know adding all these things up. You start looking at it. You start looking at different things. You start, you know, looking at the processes we went through to try to prevent all of this stuff. I think you sort of started looking at this a little bit different. And then they started really, you know, going into things a little bit deeper. And then, you know, that's the reason why, you know, we went into a polygraph, even though a lot of that stuff doesn't really hold weight. But, you know, we just went above and beyond a lot of different

things to get this stuff to show you sort of, hey, listen, what else can we possibly do to prove to you guys that, you know, this was not cheating. This was not something that he took intentionally. John doesn't cheat, and I knew this. And that's why when I sat down with you that day and you said to me, hey, you know, what's the chance? And I said 95%. And the only reason why I didn't say 100 was because it's Usada. You don't have control. There's no real system to understand whether they would give him four years, three years, two years, or one year.

Everything is based on, you know, all these different factors. So in my mind, and I said it, I think I said it from Usada as a respectable organization, you'll see John Jones back by the end of 2018, which ended up happening because I really do believe that USADA is a respectable organization and took their time. and put the due diligence necessary, you know what I mean, to make sure that they came up with something that made sense for what happened in John's case. Your primary motivation for going to arbitration after getting two and a half years knocked off the potential punishment was what?

Well, so have an award that wrote out exactly, you know what I mean? It's a good question because I was posed with it at one point. You know, do you just take the 18 months and call it a day and that's it? Or do you go to arbitration? And we know we had decided right away go to arbitration and have them just say maybe time served. You follow me? And I know they just asked me on the aerial show right now,

you know, hey, you know, why this is opposed to that, are you happy with it? And I said, you know, listen, it's not that I'm not happy with it. If you were accused of murder that you didn't do and they gave you a life sentence and you're in prison and then you get out 15 months later, yeah, you're happy with being out. But you shouldn't have been in there first place. I've been saying this since day once.

It's the first time that you saw, you had, you know, noticed Yuel Romero. that if you're not cheating, I don't believe that there should be a punishment of any sort at all, right, when you can prove that you are not trying to cheat. But they look at any little thing as potential negligence or that you, you know, you didn't do certain steps that you should take and things of that nature. And I just said it, you know, right before I got on the phone with you, I really believe that, you know, one of the biggest mistakes I've made as an agent was not taking your old Romero's case to arbitration

because I probably would have changed the way you saw this business in the UFC from the get-go. And I did it because of the way the system is set up. you know, they could have gone to four years if the arbitrator would have found him to be negligent, let's say. So they would have went above and beyond the first, they could have gone anywhere they wanted with that first punishment. So for me, you know what I mean? I said, hey, do we just take this and call it a day or do we go to arbitration and

continue to push it in front of somebody independent and see that they'll come out and say, hey, the same thing like in the first one. We didn't get a reduction in the first one when we went to arbitration. But the arbitrator clearly said, we don't believe he's cheating or tried to cheat. This guy's not a cheater of sport. He's just super negligent. In this case, he wasn't super negligent, and he wasn't cheating. So it's like it was important to get that out there.

It was important for you guys as the media to see. You know what I mean? Hey, wait a minute. He took the steps to do this. Here's all the facts to this. Here's what the arbitrator found, both from you saw this, you know, presenting their case and from us presenting our case. And then this is what they came up with.

And he said, hey, this is still too much. Let's bring it down. And, you know what I mean? I really would much rather have had a time served award. but, you know, the 15 months is probably the best thing that anybody could have asked for considering what we were looking at. So folks have raised a question, and I think it's a good one, and I'm hoping you have an answer for it, which is, how can a guy get two and a half years knocked off of a sentence for providing information when he has not used anything, right? You're saying he didn't use the... That's been my point. That's why all these little goofballs on the Internet now talking about, oh, you know, he has to provide substantial assistance.

And listen, the way they word their things and the way they do their things, I'm not, I'm not, listen, I'm not, you know, Look, I think that it's clearly cut right now that everyone knows that first round management is the best management company when it comes to dealing with Usada and putting these cases in front of Usada and getting our guys, you know what I mean, the least amount of time possible for any infraction that they have and not because they're guilty, but because they're not guilty, right? This system is set up for the minute you fail at test, you're guilty. Even if you didn't do it, if you didn't know about it, I mean, you saw what happened to Liotomachita. You saw what happened to a lot of guys who just didn't know and they got the books thrown at them. So I don't agree with that. I don't agree with that. So to me, when somebody says to me, well, he's just, no, no, no, listen, let's start off in the get-go.

Read the arbitrator's award. He was not cheating. You should be upset that he got 15 months. Instead of the media saying, oh, he's this. No, he's not a snitch. We're upset he got 15 months. We're happy because it's done it over with we could put it behind us. But in reality, he should have never been there.

Right, but Malki, hold on. Hold on. I understand. And you know what my views about you saw. We've talked about him at length. But the question is, if you've never done any of the way, this stuff. How do you have information to provide in the first place? That's my point. There was none, but I keep saying that and everybody keeps running with it.

Substantial assistance doesn't necessarily mean it has to be on somebody else. It could have been on themselves. I don't understand. Like that whole line and all that, I don't have a lot of clarity on it. I don't understand it. When they said to me, hey, listen, this is how it's got to be worded. You know, I said, okay, cool, I kind of just let it be because I'm thinking, okay, well, I don't really get it, but maybe everybody doesn't either, so I don't know. But then everybody's coming out with all this other extra stuff. To me, listen, it's exactly my point. I just said that on the Ario show. It's not like John Jones is sitting on in a room, okay, watching guys do steroids,

and then turn around and said, oh, wait a minute, I just got popped. Well, I'm going to go tell on my four teammates that I know for a fact are sitting in a room doing it because I watch them do it. That's not what happened. And I just said the same thing. I said, John goes to training, he trains, and he leaves. There's no hanging out in the room. There's no going to a bathroom. There's no shooting somebody up.

There's no sitting there and looking at form that. He doesn't do that. When the guy sits there and says, hey, guys, I think I need to take fish oil, protein, and this based on what a nutritionist told me to take. or, hey, I hired Lockhart. Lockhart says I should take this. What do you guys think? Do you guys even know what this stuff is? How about this?

Or how about what, you know, what exactly the BCAAs do? He's not sitting there in a sophisticated setting, looking at things and saying, oh, my God, I got to do this. It's not how it is. So this time around, if you read the arbitrator's agreement award, he said he took every possible step to avoid this from happening. He hired a nutritionist with multiple certifications and degrees. everything that he took was based on the recommendation of the nutritionist. Those supplements were sent to us where we researched the labels, okay, and then sent them to Jeff Nabitsky for a double set of eyes.

Nabitsky came back and said, these things are low risk you could take these things. So I'm with you. It's the same exact thing. It's like if he's innocent, right, then what exactly he's sitting here telling on? But nobody wants to put the net together. He just told on everybody. He's a bad person.

So it's a lie. It's a lie. Okay. Here's the beautiful thing about it. Hold on, hello, listen, here's the beautiful thing about it. And I'll say this. But for everybody that doubts it or thinks that I'm sitting here just lying the cover up for John or whatever it is, give it a year, give it two.

If all of a sudden seven guys go down at Jackson's Gym and there's a big bust and steroids at Jackson's Gym, then you know what? I'm probably sitting here lying. But I can almost assure you if that was to happen, it didn't come from John Jones. All right, duly noted. So let's talk about that. The label Snitch, I'm sure you've seen it thrown around. fair or not, people are throwing it around.

Do you believe that John has suffered a reputational harm as a consequence of this process? From the get-go, whether they would have this award would have came out or not. He did the first time around. He's definitely done it. It's happening coming in the second time around. One of my biggest problems with you saw it. Your reputation is ruined and it's always going to be there.

It's the same thing with you are, Romero. I still get the messages that he's a cheater when I don't know how, like, it's like there's no way to show the world. He's not cheating. Because if you wake up that they don't look at the internet and don't really try to research it, you just won't get it. So in your mind, he's a cheater. And that's just basically how it goes.

One of the biggest problems I have with Usada is that there is no due diligence into this situation before they come out with it. It's, hey, we found this guy to have failed the test. He's now, da-da-da-da-da. Even though they don't say you're cheating, he failed the test. Here's the problem. Boom, boom, boom. You know, obviously we'll let you guys know what's going on, right? So the whole world, oh, this guy's a cheater.

McChita's a cheater. Anderson, Silver, you're a cheater. And then when they come on and say, hey, he's been reinstated, we found this and we found that. Nobody listens to that. Nobody cares. Now you see guys are pissed off. Oh, you thought I'm done with you. Don't show up to my house no more.

We'll get out of here because you guys, I mean, what do you guys want? He demands not cheating. I said it on your show over a year ago. 95% chance this man comes back. Why? Because I know for a fact he's not cheating. I know none of you guys know that, but I know that. And it came true.

So, I mean, do you guys just think you sort of let him off the hook? It didn't happen that way. So, but as you know, some people do think because of his popularity and he's right back before UFC 230. Are there any ways to combat these claims? If that was the case, he would have fought on UFC 200. UFC 200 tanks after he came off the card. Why would they have done that then?

Like people have to use your head. UFC 200 was supposed to do one point-something million buys. He was the driving force. He was the main event over Brock Lesnar. And at the end of the day, when he came off that card, none of them could carry it. Am I right or wrong? And at the end, none of them could.

Not D.C., not Brock. None of them could, for whatever reason, they put Misha Taden on whatever at the top, and the thing barely did a million buys. Fair enough. I'm sitting here, and it's like, I'm arguing with everyone. It's like, hey, if he was really, if it was really, and then, and then what? They bring him back to have him fight a regular fight with D.C. He went to do this all over again. I mean, let me explain this to you.

So you understand, we started thinking this was some sort of conspiracy against John. You guys are like, oh, his popularity. We're looking at this like, yo, somebody is out to screw him. So people, I had to get that out of my mind, Luke. so you understand because, you know what I mean? Again, they take the testing sample. They go test it. You know what I mean?

We got chain of custody and this and that. There's nobody videotaping how this works. How to help why know that his stuff is really dirty or not? Or any fighter for that matter. So you got to put your trust in this stuff and it has to go both ways. So I'm actually very grateful to you sought up for taking their time and actually investigating this thing thoroughly the way they did. Some of the things that we had to do to prove this stuff to them, right,

was stuff that no other athlete has ever had to do. And we did it. When is John coming back? Listen, I'm hoping by the end of the year, if it's not the end of this year, it'll be at the very beginning of 19. So let me just play devil's advocate, or not devil's advocate, rather, but just thinking for the fans here, look, I think there are some fans who did want to see him at UFC 230. Was that ever discussed? And if so, why did it never materialize? Say that again?

Like, UFC 230, why did he ultimately not end up fighting there? There's some things that we're working out with the UFC, so there's a lot of different factors going into that. So it has nothing to do with anyone telling us we can or we could. It's just there's things that we've got to come to an agreement on. And I just don't think that UFC 230 is going to happen. All right. What will happen at heavyweight or light heavyweight? Again, that's some of the stuff that we're trying to work out.

There's a lot of – that's the whole point. There's a lot of things. He wants his light heavyweight belt back, right? Daniel has both of them. Daniel's saying he's going to wait until he fights Brock. So I don't know what's going to happen. There's a lot of – so you've got to figure out Kormier, then you've got to figure out John,

then we've got to figure out certain things with John, and then, you know, get this whole thing going – direction that makes sense for everybody involved. So Cormia is either going to fight him at light heavy weight or Cormia is going to go fight heavyweight and wait for Brock. So I don't know which route he's going to go. So I'm assuming this is my assumption, so no one run with this.

If he goes and fights D.C., if he stays and waits for Brock, then I assume they're going to take the belt and put it up for grabs between John and Guffis. And I think Guffis is the next guy in line, and I think John would have a claim to that opportunity to fight for the light heavyweight belt. If he doesn't, if D.C. decides to fight a light heavyweight before he fights Brock, then I think

you see John versus D.C. I think those are the two logical options. I just don't know for sure which route they go. We all saw the interview he did with RT, and he looked pretty motivated. Obviously, he was talking about Daniel Cormney the entire time, but I'm wondering if you could talk about how he arrived at that process. And by that, I mean, you mentioned how hard the year was. In the arbitrator's report, there was an indication that he had gone and sought out some rehab independently during this time. and I'm wondering in the past year how has John changed

or matured or what's the process been like for him? Well, I mean, listen, I think, would you, so go back to your question again? You said something to me about rehab and stuff, go back to it? Didn't he in the arbitrator? Wasn't it listed in the arbitrator's report that he?

Yes, yes. So I'm wondering how the year was for him. Well, the year for him was really tough. I mean, I think that you got to understand that, you know, you have this, so, you know, I try to take everybody down this, this road. he ends up failing a test at UFC 200, right,

which was set to be the biggest probably payday of his career, and at that time, John was at an all-time high, right? And you find out about it, what, two days or three days before the fight, you get pulled off the card, and now you go from being, you know, what was at the time, a real fan favorite, again, right, back in the good graces of everyone, I think, to just falling completely off the face of the earth, right, and everything was terrible.

He ends up going, coming back, right? We fight that thing. He comes back, he fights, he knocks out Daniel Cormié. back on top of the world. Now, right after that, I'm sorry, right before that, his mom passes away, and then you find out after that about what a month later that you now filled another test. So imagine the highs and the lows of what's going on. So when he hits this thing, he absolutely hits rock bottom. And then we just got together. All of us and was like, hey, listen, John, we got to figure something out. And John went to rehab. And not like the last time when he checked in

and then they told him, hey, you're, you seem fine to us. You can leave because, you know, that was another thing. Everybody was, oh, it was a PR stunt. He went to rehab and they told you're fine. We don't think you need to stay. So we sent him to a better facility. The UFC and everybody was involved. They helped us out, you know what I'm making sure we found the right spot.

He went in there, you know what I mean? Spent a full month in there. He talked to people. He got himself together and he really, like, you know, faced a lot of the demons that he had. That I guess you could say that made him do some of the things like the drinking and the other stuff. And he faced all that.

And I think that he's become, you know, he's listening. He's older now. He's also not 23 anymore. You know what I mean? He understands a lot of the stuff that's going on. So this last year was tough because, you know, you go through, you know, your mom passes away. You don't even get a chance to really grieve that. You're in the middle of a fight camp.

You go when you fight, right, you knock your arch rival out. Your second victory over him is better than the first one. You're back on top of the world, right? You're the man again, and you're looking at what's to come, right? And you're sitting here potentially, you call out Brock Lesnar. You've got that on the horizon. You've got these other guys coming up. And all of a sudden you find out, hey, nope, sorry, that doesn't count anymore.

you've now filled another test. And he's looking at me like, dude, I did everything. I don't know where this could have possibly came from. We tested every single thing, including over-the-counter medicines, creams. You go down the list. We, I mean, we went through everything. And, you know, to sit there and look at this, he then started looking around, like, you know, somebody trying to poison me.

You know, so it became very, like, you know, it became very bad. Like, it was a very, obviously he was depressed. You know what I mean? Like, you can imagine. He was very hurt about the whole thing. And he just wasn't in a good place at all. And he started to slowly but surely fight out. of that. And you know what I mean? He is a lot better now. He is healthy. He's he's mentally

strong and he's, you know, looking forward to just getting back on with his career. All right. Well, Malki, we really appreciate your time. Congratulations on all the the, I know it was a long year, but I think you guys probably got close to a best case scenario, something reasonably accommodating that. And we appreciate your time and candor here on today on the show. Appreciate you. All right. Thanks, brother. Yep, thank you. All right, there he goes. All right, folks. Don't forget. Use the hashtag the MMA hour. You can always call the number 844-866-24-68. Ah, what a show. Crazy one. We'll be back next week. Thank you guys for tuning in. Until next time, stay frosty.