MMA Fighting - Town Hall LIVE w/ PFL's John Martin

Episode Date: May 26, 2026

With the MMA world getting more and more interesting these days, it's time for the return of Town Hall. Fresh off of their event in Brussels this past weekend, PFL CEO John Martin joins MMA Fighting's Mike Heck for a special Q&A. Fans will be able to ask questions throughout the show. Follow Mike Heck: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@m_heckjr⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Jed Meshew: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@JedKMeshew⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ http://goo.gl/dYpsgH⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Check out our full video catalog: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://goo.gl/u8VvLi⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Visit our playlists:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ http://goo.gl/eFhsvM⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Like MMAF on Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow on Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://goo.gl/nOATUI⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Read More: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Welcome to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Ladies and gentlemen, hope you're all doing great. Welcome to Town Hall here on M-Bfighting.com. I am Mike Keck. Appreciate you joining us today. This is the, I think is the fifth time we have done this. The most important thing about Town Hall is unlike any other interview with some of the most important decision makers in the sport of mixed martial arts where the hostess sits there and asks all the questions. That is not what this is.

Town Hall is all about the people. It's all about the fans. It's all about the mixed martial arts community getting answers to the questions that you guys have. So you can start firing your questions in the chat right now. But today, once again, we are focusing on the professional. Fighters League and we've had Don Davis on a couple of times and both of those went pretty viral for being honest. We had Jonathan Coachman on last year and while that was fine, we all knew coach wasn't really the guy to answer all of these questions. So today our guest is the CEO of the

PFL coming off of a pretty wild event in Brussels this past weekend, not to mention some announcements earlier today. So let us welcome in. John Martin, there he is. John, how are you, sir? I'm good. I'm good. Thanks for having me on. It is good to have you here. A couple of housekeeping notes before we get to the people. And again, if you're just joining, you'd start firing your questions in the chat. But PFL Brussels, capped off by Patrick Haparoor, just kind of destroying Benson Henderson in 21 seconds. And there are all sorts of crazy things that happened throughout this event, pretty wild fight card. Your reaction to it all, a few days later, when you think back on PFL Brussels, just a few days back, what comes to your mind?

Well, I guess the way you teed it up. I mean, look, I would start with, you know, Brussels is turning out to be a great place for the PFL. I mean, I hopefully people that were able to see it on TV, if you could find it on the ESPN, saw a really vibrant crowd where we sold out and people had flares and flags and it was a typical great European fan base. And then the card itself, certainly had a few surprises and some few things that you don't ordinarily see. I think, you know, we had Patrick against Benson in the main event and the fight didn't go as I would have expected. But, you know, for Patrick Harbourora, I think this was a statement. And, you know, to finish Benson Henderson, who admittedly is in the twilight of his career, but nevertheless, has been a champion multiple times over in the UFC is a statement. And I think Patrick is a rising superstar within the PFL. Yeah.

And, you know, I'm kind of glad you brought up Benson because a lot of people were wondering about the matchmaking. And as you said, yes, Benson has a long resume. He's a former UFC champion. And people obviously understand the need to sort of build up a potential star in Patrick. But a lot of people seemed really upset about the matchmaking heading in. And after seeing the fight play out and, ending in 21 seconds.

They were like, this is sad. Why are we doing this? What is your response to those folks? Well, I mean, look, this is an interesting sport in the sense that everybody can have an opinion as to what makes great fights. And we certainly want to put on great cards and great fights. And we want the best fighting the best. And I think for somebody like Patrick, who's undefeated, but still, you know, I think

he's eight, nine or eight and no or nine and oh, we wanted to give him a real test. from somebody who was a proven, you know, top of the food chain fighter. And we thought Benson Henderson might be an interesting matchup. Now, it didn't turn out that way. You know, coming into the main event, I believe Benson was a, you know, minus 1,600 underdog. But then I looked over at the boxing fight that was this weekend.

And with Usset versus Rico, and RICO went in down 2,000 on the betting odds and put up a hell of a fight. So that's the nature of the fight game. I think for Patrick, it certainly is a huge statement. I do believe, you know, he has been in some really interesting fights. And I think the competition from him going forward is going to only get that much more difficult. And we're going to, we've got plans to bring him back and have him fight in the United States for the first time, which I'm really excited about.

And we'll be announcing as his competitor in the future. But I think, look, you know, I expected Benson to put up much, much more stiff competition. But Patrick has, I saw him fight live also in Leone in December. That was the first time I saw him fight live. And he also finished that fight in a pretty spectacular fashion in the first round. So he has that capability. And he's a really electric performer. So I don't want to take anything away from Benson.

The fight didn't turn out the way that we expected. But I think it, hopefully, in fans minds, puts Patrick on their radar screen to really keep an eye on as a real legitimate up-and-comber in the 170-pound division. The other thing that really stood out. I mean, there was a lot of craziness, but the Joe Schilling situation. That's why I was laughing a little bit. Yeah.

You know, I mean, that's one of these where I was, I mean, which, which way you want to go. You want to, you know, it was, it was Denege Abenez's, you know, debut in the PFL. And he was a really, I think, a very exciting signing for the PFL. And he's a very accomplished kickboxer. And now he's trying to make his way over, crossover into becoming a legitimate MMA star. And we thought as the initial fight, it might be interesting to put him up against somebody who also came from glory fame and was a kickboxer and see how they could square off. And Schilling has a long history of being an MMA athlete as well. but, you know, obviously extremely disappointed from a sportsman standpoint that we had

Abena trying to execute some sort of a headbut, which is not a legal move. And then Joe Spilling unilaterally deciding to quit, which also was a surprise and a disappointment. I mean, so how, like, how do you handle that from your perspective, you know? Because, like, this is the nature of the sport. This is a very interesting sport. And I will tell you, we've had several conversations where I've asked the same exact question, like, okay, so how do we deal with this? So, I mean, look, in terms of Abena, we're going to make it very clear what the rules are. And I don't think we should expect to ever see anything like that again.

I also don't think, you know, you ban somebody for doing something like that. Unfortunately, Joe Schilling did not get injured from that because that would have been a real shame. And Joe Schilling, I mean, you know, I don't know. I was disappointed that he quit, although, you know, there's certainly arguments to me made on both sides. So I was just very disappointed in the fight in general. That's just a fight that didn't work. Will Joe fight for you guys again? No.

Okay. Well, either fight again for you guys. A banner will be back. Okay. All right, fair enough. I do want to get to the listeners, but I do want to touch on the big news. news of the day. You're heading back to New York, Long Island, that is, the main event. We got Usman Ramaga Madoff defending the PFL lightweight title against Archie Colgan. Also, the

long-awaited return of Dakota Ditcheva versus Denise Keelholz. Usman's back in the cage. You guys are back in New York. This is a big deal, John. Thoughts on the matchups and the fan reaction thus far. So we have, you know, we're about to hit the most, I would say, you know, the most velocity of our schedule for this year. You know, we've got, we've got San Diego at the end of June, right at the end of June. And then we've got almost three consecutive weeks of cards that are going to have championship fights at the top of the card. And Long Island, New York is the third one of those three weeks that I was mentioning

that we announced this morning. And I grew up on Long Island. I mean, it's a bit of a personal thrill to be able to bring a card like this to my hometown, you know, my home, my backyard, so to speak. And listen, we've got two of our best pound-for-pound fighters that are going to be present on the card. And Usman Nirmagamatov, who's undefeated and is defending legacy. And, of course, is part of royal lineage in the fight game being cousins with Habib. And he's, you know, I've seen him fight now several times live.

I mean, he doesn't seem like he really has a weakness. but I think fighting Archie Cogan is going to be a real test for him. I mean, I think for Archie, you know, he wants to establish his legacy. And he's been climbing the latter one fight at a time. And none of it has been easy. But he's an elite NCAA Division I wrestler and has also really dynamic striking power. So I think the matchup is going to be really interesting. And I think for the fans,

going to be a really exciting fight. And then, of course, on the co-main, we're finally going to get to see Dakota. She's finally going to be back after having suffered two consecutive hand injuries. And so very, very excited for her to be back, and she'll be fighting Denise Keelholtz. The first question that popped into my mind and I saw all over the place after this was announced was, did you guys re-sign Newsman or Magam Beadoff? Because I think this is the last fight, right on his current deal. So people are wondering, is you going to just fight out the deal

and just kind of see what happens or did you guys, were you guys able to lock him up? So can you provide any kind of an update on Usman and his status? Yeah, we schedule this fight and just wanted to lock in the matchup and make sure,

because it's in terms of the natural cadence of him fighting, it made sense. So we locked in the fight, we announced a fight, and now we're going to talk to him about what a new deal might look like and what his plans are. And so, no, there's nothing to announce in terms of them.

We have not, we have not, we signed, he hasn't signed anything up with us at this point. Are you confident that you guys can lock him up, that after this one, his next fight will be another PFL title defense? You know, I'd like it to be. And I think I've said this before publicly. I mean, he's, he's, I think he's among the best lightweights in the world. And, and of course, the UFC is a stacked lightweight division as well. but he's, I mean, he doesn't seem to have a weaknesses in his fight game. And I've spoken to, I'll be personally, and Habib says,

Usman is arguably going to go down as maybe the best ever. He's still 26 years old. So I think he's been great for the PFL. I mean, he's spoken very positively publicly publicly about he's happy here at the PFL. And if we can resign him in a way where it makes sense for us and it makes sense for him and his career, I would love for that to happen. So we'll have to sit down with him and talk to him about what he wants to do and see if the right home for him is to continue at the PFL.

I think I would love for him to be able to stay. And then on the Dakota side, the two questions that I've been seeing, at least that I've been seeing and just things that I've seen on social media, I'm sure you saw one from Jonathan Coachman. We'll get there. Well, actually, I'll leave that now. Why is Dakota not main eventing? because most people feel she's the biggest star in the sport or in the company.

I understand it's not a title fight, but I guess we'll start with the fan questions now and kind of add a layer to this from John. Why is Dakota not fighting for some sort of PFL title against Liz Karmouche? Because Liz, after winning the tournament last year in Charlotte, everyone was, this just seemed like the natural fit. Like, we're just going to build up to this. And obviously we had to get through Dakota's injuries and stuff like that. And I know Liz is booked now,

but Dakota is now booked and it's only like I think a month apart why did we not just go right to the Carmouche fight? Why do we give them two separate fights? What's going on there? We talked about it and honestly this is another one where everybody could play

armchair quarterback about what's the right matchmaking. I think you know Dakota was supposed to fight Denise in February and that was the fight that she had wanted and you know Dakota wants to stay busy and she has said that.

And unfortunately, she's been held back by these consecutive injuries. But she, when, you know, and Denise fought and won in Dubai in February. And when we sat down and talked to Dakota and we found out that she was healing very, very nicely. We talked about what was next. And she, and I mean, I have a lot of respect for her. She said, I promised Denise this fight. I think I still want to give it to her. And I don't think this is a simple fight for her.

And she could have probably held it. out and fought immediately for a championship. But then, you know, we've got four other women fighting in San Diego who are creating a little bit of chaos in that division. And Liz is one of them. And but we've got Jan Bishop and Ariane Lipski and Arruho. And so I think we're going to see what happens in San Diego. And then if Dakota wins, I think what, here's my expectation. we will be crowning a champion at the 125-pound weight class before the end of this year. So whether it happened immediately or whether these steps, this is what we've chosen to do. And I think all the fighters are pleased.

And I think these are going to be some great fights for the fans to watch. We're looking forward to it. I think PFL is a better place when Dakota Dichiva is an active fighter and the same with Uttu Suna Maga made off as well. Yeah, both of them. And I know Dakota was so disappointed both times with her injuries because she is a fight. that really wants to stay active and busy. And it seems like it's been a long time. So I know she's very excited to get back.

And so we're excited to have her. All right. Let's get to the questions. You guys are fired him in. We got a lot already. So let's start here with our guy lazy bed. He's been waiting for this since we announced it last week. What does the ideal broadcast partner for PFL look like?

In other words, what sort of platform or distribution method do you feel is best suited to reach your organization's potential. So obviously, John, you made headlines when you were doing an interview with Ariel Hawani. You were talking about, I guess, your disappointment or lack of a, for lack of a better term, about the relationship with ESPN in 2026. The promotion's not really there. You are on the network, but you were kind of maybe hoping for a little bit more out of this partnership for this last year. And we're heading into the contract year and decisions need to be made. So as you guys are planning to make these decisions, how do you define? define what the ideal PFL broadcast partner looks like from 2027 and beyond?

No, look, it's a fundamentally critical question for us. I think if somebody who's going to ask, what is the biggest thing holding us back as a promotion at the moment in terms of raising our profile and raising our brand, it's, it's distribution. And, you know, I mean, listen, ESPN is obviously a world-class company. and a world-class sports network broadcast operation. And I didn't mean to diss it possibly on the aerial show, but I stand behind what I said,

which is that if you want to watch the PFL, you have to really work hard to find it. And that's not ideal for us, and that's not ideal for our fans. So from a broadcast partner, we obviously want a partner that has broad distribution, and we want a partner that wants to help us grow our brand and grow a sport. And so we need a partner who's going to be willing to work with us and provide some marketing

and promotion and provide some consistency and visibility in addition to more money for rights. So I had always envisioned that in the cadence of the discussions with the broadcasters this year, you know, we're going to probably go well into, you know, the next several months. We're in discussions with several broadcasters and discussions are quite constructive. I don't want to say purposely, but the way we set up the events with the cards also is that we want to really showcase the best of what PFL has in these next several months. And I think the platforms will be paying attention to that. And hopefully they can appreciate what we're done. this year versus in the past. In the past, there were bigger events with the PFL that were held

outside of the U.S. But in the U.S., it was the world tournament and the event venues. It was more of almost a studio show. It didn't have a lot of energy, and it didn't have a lot of, you didn't, it didn't feel like a real event. So now we're seven events into this year. Four have been outside the U.S. three have been inside the U.S. I think six of the seven have been sold out. So we're selling out venues in the U.S., which we've never done before. And our ticket sales are up considerably year-on-year.

And so that's the best validation that the strategy is working. We kind of sunset the world tournament, and now we're matchmaking. We're putting best versus best, and we'll be crowning champions as we progress through the year. And listen, every promotion is going to say that they have the best fighters. and yes, the UFC is the UFC, and I've got incredible respect for them. But I look at the quality of our fighters at the top of our weight classes, and we've got some incredible fighters. And I think fans deserve to get access to them.

And it's very, very hard when you go to ESPN and you can't find it. And in Brussels, I had people texting me from back in the States saying, like, I want to try to find it on the app. I can't find it. And that's just frustrating. Yeah, I could totally understand that. Because if you don't have, if you don't have like a cable service, it costs, it costs a lot of money to order that monthly thing. And yeah, you get WWE and you get some of the other stuff.

But like if you have to watch it through like ESPN unlimited, it's like almost 30 bucks a month to watch you guys. And not the most ideal kind of setup, though, right? Yeah, well, that's true. I mean, but that's a bit of a complaint more broadly about just television in general and sports fans. How many people, I've read some survey that almost 50% of sports fans say that they can't watch what they want, because they don't even know what streaming service it's on now. I mean, it's just becoming increasingly complex, and it's very, very expensive when you start putting together. I came from the TV business, and when I heard that these streamers were going to come in as low-cost alternatives for viewers,

so you didn't have to pay for the cable bundle. I started laughing to myself because you could already see how. how this was going to unravel. And it's like, okay, so Disney's going to have their own bundle. Paramount's going to have the wrong bundle. Warner Brothers is going to have the wrong bundle. And it's like, okay, you're going to buy all of them. And guess what?

Your cable bill, which used to be $90 a month is now $120. And that's kind of what's happened. And you still don't get everything. And it's led by sports because that's the most costly programming. So, you know, it's a bit of a shame. And so what? trying to do, listen, we've got 26 partners around the world. We can be seen in 170 countries, but our goal this year was to make a bigger splash in the U.S. and we're putting on bigger events

in the U.S. And I would love for our fans to have easier access to our product. So this summer, we're going to be on Maney SPN on the linear channel more often. So it should be easier. It's just the international events are those that are just available on the app. Yeah. There have been rumor, you know what it is, and a may rumor and innuendo, people want to be first on stuff. And I know you guys are,

you said conversations are happening and they're constructive. Any truth, and I don't know what you can say or what you can say. Are you guys talking to Fox at all? Because that seems to be a very popular rumor on the internet right now that you guys are talking with them. Yeah,

I mean, we're talking to a number. I don't want to get into the specifics of any of the partners. But, yeah, I've always, you know, I've always said,

I've, and this goes way back before I join the PFL. I mean, I've always respected what Fox has done in sports as being an innovator and being willing to try new things. And so, yeah, I mean, we're talking to them among others. Thank you for the question there. Hosada, thank you for the super chat. John, can we see you on first take with Stephen A? Would be great for PFL.

Any rights updates? Also, love what you guys are doing with the takedown kits. So there you go. You versus Stephen A. I mean, that would actually be pretty interesting because you know what side Stephen A is on. So you and Steve A getting after it. Yeah, well, maybe somebody can put in a good word and I can get an invite. How about that?

I love that. Thanks for the shout out on the takedown kits. You know, I've been also, you know, I came in and said publicly, I don't love the uniforms. And I still don't. But as I've gotten into the business more and more, you know, a lot of our fighters really want the kits. It simplifies things. It makes sure that what they're wearing is safe and up to code and so on and so forth. And so what takedown has done is it's allowed some of our fighters the ability to really personalize the way that they've, that the kits that they're wearing.

And so for me, you know, fighting is about at its core. It's about self-expression. And it's about showcasing. who the athlete is. And I remember back in the early UFC days when we're not even that early, but when fighters wore their own stuff, it was always, it was interesting for me because I saw,

you know, Randy Coutour walk out an affliction shirt. And I think a week later, I was buying an affliction shirt because I just thought it was some really cool merch. And you lose that a little bit with the kids. So we're trying to, we're trying to also work with the fighters to get more of their personality to come out. And I think we're doing a better job of storytelling and creating content. But again, our distribution is suboptimized right now. So we're talking to a reasonably small

group of fans. And we're trying to break out of that and reach more and more people. Thank you for the question. Hasada. Let's go to Cosmo. What are some things you saw that MVP MMA did well that you could use to better the PFL? So you guys have been kind of tied to them a little bit. and obviously I'll add a little more context on this in a minute, but I'm sure as someone who is trying to get your company to where you wanted to be, you were watching and you paid attention, at least saw highlights or whatever. What did you see?

What was your reaction to the event? And were you guys able to take away some pros and cons from it? Absolutely. Listen, you know, I'm, I know in the fight promotion game, a lot of it is people just sit around and shit talk, the other promoters. And maybe I'm a little bit of a,

a different personality in that sort. I have no problem standing up for what I believe in and being transparent, direct, but I also, I'm just honest. I think there are some things that MVP is doing that's really quite interesting. And let's start with Jake Paul. If somebody would have told me several years ago that Jake would have been able to disrupt the sport of boxing and the manner in which he has, I would have said that's a long task, but he's done it. And I've gotten to know Nikisa, and he's a very, very, you know, seasoned, proven executive, talented guy and also a disruptor. And MVP has got a really attractive relationship with Netflix.

And they've put on some really interesting before May 16th, boxing events. And with May 16th, you know, I mean, big marketing, big promotion, big, you got the poundage of Netflix behind you, which is, enviable. And there was some really interesting fights. But they're not doing, at least in the first event with MMA, what we're doing. I mean, we have a fight roster of global fighters, I think north of 130 fighters now, and including our development leagues, 200 plus fighters on our roster. And they're doing more of a promotion of event by event. So not every fight. But fight turned out to be the most interesting fight from a fan standpoint, likely. But, you know,

I mean, you mentioned Patrick and Benson didn't turn out to be maybe it was interesting for many, but it was a little bit short for my liking, kind of like the Rhonda Rousey Gina Carano fight. But I think, you know, as disruptors and as an organization and a promotion that is reaching outside of the pure MMA fan base, I think it's very interesting. and I think we need to pay attention to that. And I think we need to pay attention to that as a sport because with my media background, and this is ambitious sounding coming from the PFL standpoint,

which is still a growing promotion. But I think the future of this sport is really being more ambitious and you try to create a global combat sport entertainment company where you can reach casual fans in addition to hardcore sport fans. And it's hard to argue that the captivity of the traditional broadcast ecosystem is declining and fragmenting. And younger fans are not consuming sport the way that my generation did.

And a lot of that consumption is happening in nonlinear ways. And it's happening on devices and social media. And we have a lot to learn at the PFL about how do you reach and captive, audiences through those new distribution systems. And I think MVP is doing some of that better than we're doing. And I think Jake Paul is a leader, obviously, in social media. And so, and I have said, and I really do believe this, that if MVP can reach more casual fans and all of a sudden somebody sees an MVP event and goes, oh, that's mixed

martial arts. I've never seen that before. That's kind of fun. It's kind of interesting. Well, maybe I'll turn in and I'll tune in to watch the UFC or maybe I'll tune in to watch the PFL. that's good for us. So one of the things, I think, as stewards of the sport,

we're trying to grow the overall fan base globally. And I think there's lots of different ways that you could do it. And it's not for everybody. If you're a purist, you may say, well, that's, you know, those fights aren't the most competitive fights. But I don't know, it reminded me that I wouldn't want to stand in front of Francis and Ganoo myself. That event, like, to me, it was.

and I've told, you know, some people of my family who've asked me about it. It reminds me of like going to a wedding. Like not everyone likes, not everyone likes listening to Motown. But if you go out there and dance, like, you'll have fun. If you go in there just be like, I'm just going to dance to everything and have a good time. You're going to have a good time. And that's what this event was. It wasn't fair.

It had a bit of everything. The hardcore fans got to see the Saladin Parnassas of the world. The Pumina Kudas of the world fight. And then the casual fans who have not watched the sport in a decade got to watch. Oh, yeah. I know who Ronda Rousey is. Oh, I know who this person is. Oh, Nate Diaz.

I've heard of him. He threw a water bottle of Connor McGregor. Like, it had it for everybody. But if you kept your, if you kept sort of your expectations in the right place, you had a good time. But I think you just said it better than I did. And, you know, there's been a lot because I try to read a lot of different things, I'm sure, as you can imagine. And a lot of people were saying, oh, there were a lot of empty seats. I will tell you, I was in the arena.

and by the time the main card started, there were not many empty seats, if not at all. And so they fill the 16 plus thousand capacity arena for a first MMA event. That's that's that that's that's pretty impressive. The problem, I mean, he's running this a couple times. And I want to get your opinion on this because one of the big, one of the big takeaways from this event is like, you know what PFL is to do? They have to reach out to them and try to set up some sort of co-lact. or cross-promotion or, you know, the sharing of talent thing because while MVP boasted a good number and all that stuff, like, you have to build a roster and you have to be able to maintain

this. So when I hear Nekisa going on shows and saying, like, we want to do 12 shows a year, I'm like, how are you going to do that without anybody to fight for you? Now, obviously, having a good relationship with another organization such as yours, we can create some superfights that we weren't able to see in other promotions. We were able to do some fun stuff. So was that one of your takeaways from this event is like you know what maybe we could do a little something here we can scratch their back they can scratch ours a little bit and help them grow they help us grow and in turn we help the sport grow any discussions like that you know i think and i think nekisa got asked this uh at the press conference it might have been that evening after the event and and

he said that he would be open uh to to to the idea uh you know he's he and I, we're in the same industry. We talk. And I don't know if you're aware, but we also, we featured, you know, some rise in fighters every now and then on PFL cards. And we have a bit of a fight share relationship with Saki Kabara in Japan. And, you know, as a challenge of brand, I think, you know, I'm not against being a little bit more forward-leaning in terms of trying to raise the profile of the PFL brand. It's not lost on me what you said. I mean, it's not easy to put on an event at the scale that MVP did,

and I think they successfully pulled it off. But it's another thing to say, well, you're going to put on a whole recurring stream of these because you do need fighters. So, you know, would I be open to doing something every, you know, if it makes sense for PFL, then I'm open to it. but I'll just leave that at that. I mean, it's got to make sense for our promotion. Yeah.

I mean, you guys could throw in Dakota on there, throwing her on a Netflix card. Like, it's only good for you guys. I mean, it'd be great for the, you know, yes. I mean, you get the, it really comes down to the global platform of Netflix, right? And the shining the spotlight on, gee, these are really great fighters that we have. So, but again, you know, we'd be willing to do things. but it's got to make sense for the promotion. I want to go back a little bit to the distribution stuff.

Someone had asked, a brilliant man. His name is Garemecruz. M.Afighting.com. It's great website. He said, please ask John about Brazil. PFL does not air in Brazil anymore after Combate no longer worked with them. And it's crazy considering how many Brazilian fighters they have on the roster. So any plans to anything as far as Brazil goes, getting back on their radar and on their screens?

Yes, I'm not happy that we're dark there right now, and we've tried a number of different things. And of course, we're going to still work really hard at it. You know, when you think about Brazil, it's so important as one of the tent pole countries of fighting and martial arts. And so, yeah, we're working hard to no longer be dark there. And then we do have a number of talented Brazilian fighters. And I would love the idea of bringing an event there. But of course, we want to have a broadcast partner before we commit to do that. But the idea of doing something in Brazil would be really, really exciting for us.

There's still a lot of places around the world that I think, you know, PFL could do really, really well in and areas that UFC has not necessarily paid attention to. another staff question i have where's cedric dunebe what is going on with him so cedric you know we we keep in very close touch with i've spoken to it myself a couple of times you know he took some time off and he spent some time with family and i think he reprioritized some things in his life and he just took some time off from fighting but uh you know when cedric is ready to come back we're ready to have them and and you know I've been I have not spoken to him in the last couple of months but I've heard he's back training and and so you know I would love nothing more than for Cedric to fight in the PFL again he's a very exciting fighter

okay so this is just a we're re-prioritizing things we're taking a little break this is a break not we're done yeah when I spoke to him he didn't say he was done he said he just want to take some time So, and I saw him at, he was there at one of our events live. And I was excited because after the event, he seemed really excited. But somehow that hasn't translated into speeding along its return. But I hope and expect that he'll be back. Well, that is good news. He's someone that people ask about all the time.

So Brett, question, what can PFL do to offer an alternative for fans? It's a great alternative for fighters, but how can we have a meaningfully different viewing experience in the UFC without relying on gimmicks? So it's tough. Look, it's a fair question and one that we wrestle with a little bit ourselves. You know, when I came nine months ago, you know, the view and the belief was that the tournament was that differentiator.

And it was the thing that UFC didn't do so the PFL would do the tournament. And we studied it. I studied it as the new person long and hard. And I concluded that while it's interesting intellectually, and for many fans, they still like the tournament. And I get notes, people miss it and wish it was back. I just didn't think it worked for the majority of the fan base. And I think your average fight fan enjoys the matchmaking,

enjoys the rankings, enjoys the, you know, so we can sit here and debate. whether Dakota should be fighting Liz or who should be fighting next. I mean, I think that's part of the sport. And so I wanted to make those structural changes and then try to introduce or reintroduce to the fans just how good our fighters are, and then figure out culturally what differentiates the PFL from the other promotions. So, you know, we're talking about a number of different things, none of which I'm prepared to announce today, but they've got to be authentic to the sport.

But one of the things, you know, that often comes up is whether certain rule changes might be in order to make it a little bit more exciting to watch. And we'll evaluate that and what makes sense. And we'll try to find out what aspects of the sport are really not engaging fans the way that we'd like to engage them. So there's ways that you can do that. but it has to be authentic, and I don't want it to be gimmicky, because generally speaking, gimmicks kind of, they may peak curiosity and then they fizzle out. I mean, I became a passionate mixed martial arts fan 25 years ago because I love the sport. So I'd like to be leading a promotion that stays true to the sport, but also has a personality that's a little bit different and distinct

from the other promotions. So sometimes it's hard to do, but we had to put the tournament behind us, get us back on, I'd say, a track where we're putting more of the best, fighting the best, and then we can figure out next steps. What rule would you change if the magic rule fairy came down and said, John, we're going to give you one rule change for PFL. It will just let you have it. No green tape. You don't have to jump through any fiery hoops.

We're just going to make it happen for you. This is just my personal opinion, but I'm not putting the PFL stamp on it. Okay. But I think that there are times when referees should be standing up the fighters sooner. And that doesn't mean that the ground fighting isn't a massive aspect of the game because it is. But there are times where I just think even being in the arena where sometimes it's just not enough activity with fighters on the ground. And I think we've got to be pushing our athletes to keep going. and not be resting and just laying on each other.

But there are other things, too. I mean, you know, people keep talking about elbows and soccer kicks and things like that. So I, you know, but I don't, I don't have anything to announce. But I think we are looking, I'm looking at as a fan sitting there going like, what are the parts of this that are really exciting and really engaging? And then what are the parts are, you know, you get the fan reaction of the booze. and you want to, you know, so. Can we add knees to grounded opponents, please?

Yeah, that was someone. Yes. Give me that one. The other ones I know are a little tougher, but if we could get that one on the board, I think you're going to make a lot of the, especially the older fans, very happy about this and more about that. Duke Mad Duck,

have you guys thought about maybe creating a 165 division, push Walter weight to 175, stuff like that that would make you guys different from other promotions? So the answer is, Have we thought of it or yes, are we seriously considering it? Not at the moment. But we have had some internal discussion about, you know,

it's great when you're in a fight promotion. And I'm really still a new kid on the block. We've got a number of people who have been in this business for decades and who think of it from a fighter standpoint and cutting weight and, you know, really trying to, you know, make sure that we're staying true to athletes and, you know, should we have more divisions that are more closely condensed on weight and, you know, there's pros and cons to everything.

So that specific 165 to 175. I don't know if that's come up, but we've had some internal discussion about whether our weight classifications deserve to be revisited. What about 125? Men's 125 is very fun right now. I know it's very fun in the UFC, but it's very fun out of it as well. So that, I think that could be a good little division for you guys. I'm sure you guys have discussed that at some point.

Yeah, but not seriously considering, but yeah, we've talked about that too. Yeah, I think it's a darn good division. By the way, going back to like sort of the casual thing and how do we get these new eyeballs and things like that? I know one of the big words that has been associated with PFL over the last several months was rebrand, right? That was a word that's come up. And the biggest thing that has come out from that, at least from quote tweets and things

of that nature is bring back Bellator. Let's just rebranded back to Bellator. And personally speaking, I don't love this idea. I don't even like it, John, but that's just one man speaking. And I don't, I'm not the CEO of Fight Promotion. So you would know better than me. Is there any consideration whatsoever of changing PFL back to Bellator? The quick answer is it's one of the brands that we're, that we've considered and we're still considering.

It's not the only one, though. And what's kind of interesting is since, and I got caught off guard, Ariel was the one who asked me when I was on his show. But it happened to be at a moment of time where we were evaluating and we're still evaluating. But what was interesting about that coming out is that you get instant fan feedback, right? And I would almost say, this is not. you know, empirical, but it's just, it was like 50-50. 50% of the fans were like, that would be amazing. It would bring back kind of a more gladiator spirit and it would sort of really sunset the PFL of old. And then there were 50% that said that just seems like you're

going and revisiting the past and you really need to make a spot. So, you know, this is a decision that I'm sure will probably delight 50% and piss off 50%. So I don't know what we're gaining from. But why would you say, I'm interested, and thanks for your honesty, you said, you think it's a bad idea. So what do you think is bad about that? I think it's just a dead brand now. Like it's associated with the name Bellator is like, cool. Like I've been saying for a while that for years, almost a decade, that the UFC, like WWE would do a throwback to ECW. They'd do one night standard for one night.

They would do an ECW style event. And I always said the UFC should do a WECD. style event with the blue cage and the lighter weights like just once in a while do that and now if pf wants to do a bellator card like a throwback bellator one night event cool and you bring back some of like the old bellator fighters and we do like some of the dream matchups that we never got or we could get them now or some rematches like we could do some fun stuff but i think the association to the actual bellator name now is like yeah didn't work it's over and done with you know and i just to me it's Whatever it is, you'd have to really define it in a way where it's a new start and it's a fresh

start. And it's not just going back and revisiting what was done before. And that's the tricky part. I've personally rebranded five different businesses in my career and they sound easy, but they're not. And they take a lot of time and a lot of attention and they cost money. And so you got to get it right. So I'd rather be careful about the evaluation instead of making just a quick knee-jerk reaction.

But it is, you know, the PFL brand, it's interesting. The PFL brand, there are countries outside the U.S. where the PFL brand is as well known as the UFC, if not even more. It places the UFC doesn't pay any attention to. But here in the States, it's dated by UFC. So anyway, it's an interesting subject. I'm really more focused on just making sure at the moment. moment that we're putting on great events that are delighting people and that hopefully fans can

actually access it and see it. Did you see our, so right? I think it was like two days after you talked to Ariel. We came on our Q&A show that we do on Thursdays and we were like, how do you rebrand this? And we were trying to like decipher things. And then my colleague Jed figured it out. He was like, let's just call it fights.

You know what you're watching. Like, and then you just build around that. It's just like tonight on ESPN 2. fights like you just know you're watching fights and it's just like such a simple name and the fact is no one's used fights it's just like an organization name like fights it's i got it rolled off the tongue i think it works better than bellator that's just me again if you guys want to go that route not my not my choice to make but uh yeah just just a thought i'm sure jett will be very happy newly noted if we go in that direction we'll have to give you some sort of a fee or whatever not me

Give it to Jen. Whoever, whoever the origin of the idea. It's just so funny. Somehow we got there, it was pretty great. May I ask, what's going on with Chris Cyborg? Are we going to see her fight this year? A lot of people wondering about her. I think she keeps saying she's one MMA fight left.

Could we see that one MMA fight happen in 2026? We're actually in discussions now. What's next for Chris? I think you will. And I suspect and I hope you will. And she's been. so synonymous with the greatness in the sport and what she's given back to the sport. I mean, she deserves a really terrific last fight if that's what she chooses to do.

And we would love to be able to provide that to her. And that's why, you know, to have that discussion at the MVP event about the greatness of Rhonda and Gina, they are great and goats in their own right, but to not include Chris Cyborg and that conversation would be a disservice to Chris. I mean, she's, in fact, I think before the Ronda Rousey fight, the last fight Gina Karano had was against Chris Cyborg. And Cyborg has never left the sport. I mean, she's just been in it, just rolling through when it belts in every single promotion

she's been part up. So, yeah, so I think she should be back. She will be back. And kind of going full circle, the most recent time we've seen her, compete for PFL was against Larissa Pacheco and that fight rocked. Like that was a great fight. We needed that fight and it kind of set the tone for the rest of the event. I thought it was one of the best fights of the year for PFL.

It was awesome. And then a little while ago we found out Pacheco is no longer on the roster and we immediately thought she's going to go to the UFC. She's just going to go to the UFC. We're going to run the Kayla fight back. But she has publicly come out and like shown receipts that they aren't interested in being in the Larissa Pacheco business, which I find kind of some, surprising. But now that you're here, are you surprised by this? What has been sort of your reaction?

Like we saw her, I think she did the one karate combat fight fighting against someone that she had no business fighting. It was kind of ridiculous, but that's just coming from me. Are you surprised that no one's locked her up and she didn't sign the UFC just wasn't interested in her? I don't know. I mean, that's that's a question that I'm not knowledgeable enough to know. I mean, I understand the question. And intellectually, I might be a little bit surprised, but I just don't know specific enough about that situation. Okay. Fair enough. Here we go. Duke, any Ted Turner story you could tell us, Mr. Byrne. I didn't realize how influential Ted was until now. What a beast of an entrepreneur and Trailblazer. Any, any Ted Turner stories? I have too many to share.

I mean, we've got 10, 15 minutes left to go on this. I mean, Ted, you know, every once in a while in a career, you're fortunate enough to come across people who are just truly special. I mean, I've had the privilege and honor to work with so many talented people. And at a time in media, when they were real moguls, like people that started these businesses and who were the entrepreneurs. And, you know, if you look at the cable television industry, I've gotten a chance to work with and know countless entrepreneurs who started their career stringing up cable to wire the country. And of course, they went on to all be very financially successful. And Ted Turner was really unique in the sense that he didn't believe in doing a lot of consumer research. He didn't

believe in asking a lot of people's opinions. He just had his own views on things. And he was willing to take massive risk. And the audacity to launch a 24th, for our cable news network when every single person in the industry thought it would bankrupt the company and it was one of the dumbest ideas anybody could have ever had. And he was just undeterred. And you hear these entrepreneurial stories all the time when the entrepreneur will look up and say, everybody told me it was dumb. I just believed differently.

And I was willing to just put everything into it. So, I mean, he personally almost bankrupted the company countless times. but just an extraordinary human being. And the one thing I would say that, and this is, you know, maybe this is not the best example, but I was the principal contact with the investment community when I was at Time Warner for a number of years. And it was, you know, Ted would just say what was on his mind, and he was unapologetic about it. But when he, after 9-11, he was quoted in the newspapers as calling the terrorists, heroes. And you can imagine the investment community went crazy. And they're calling me. People

said, they're going to sell all their shares and how dare he is. So I called them up. I said, Ted, what did you say? And he said, I didn't call him heroes. He said, I just said, for someone who's that, you know, firm in their beliefs that they'd be willing to die in pursuit of that. He said, some would call them heroes. He said, I'm not going to apologize for that. I believe in that. I said, well, could you issue some sort of an apology? He was like, no, I'm not doing that. And so he caused this countless headaches, but he was an extraordinary man. I will share with you one quick one.

No, I went to go see him when I became the CEO of Turner. He was retired, but he was really kind to me. And when he was telling me a little bit about his life, because I had worked with him a number of times, but this was him just sort of passing the baton to me as the CEO Turner. He showed me this hardcover life book from Life magazine book of the 100 people that changed the world. And he was in between Elvis Presley and Jesus Christ on pages. So you're flipping the pages. There's Elvis and there's Ted Turner and then there's Jesus Christ. And he looked at me and he said, you know, be in between Elvis and Jesus Christ. He goes, that's a lot to do for one person and one

lifetime. And I just, I just was laughing to myself. They're an extraordinary guy. They don't make him like him anymore. Yeah. It's just an absolute animal out there. So rest of peace, Ted Turner, for sure. Easy boy. Why does PFL not at press conferences like the UFC? Just an idea also post-fight not broadcasted on YouTube. So I know you guys from, I was at the Charlotte event last year, when Liz Karmouche was crowned, tournament champion, and some other things happened that night as well. There was a media room.

We did have a little thing with Coachman after and some of the fighters as well. But it's not like a big deal, I guess. It's at least from how people can watch it, as opposed to like how the UFC does it. So any thoughts about bringing those back and making them a little more, I guess, bigger for the fan base? Yeah, we do do them to your point. But, you know, they're not easy to be seen.

So I think we need to commit to do them more, maybe do them a little bit more purposefully with intention and then make sure that we're consistent about where people can see them. But we do do them. I do them. And internationally, it's a little harder to put them on. But so I'm going to take that as an interesting note.

And let me see what we could do. I always thought, like, what would benefit you guys, and I've said this a couple of times, is not just doing like the post-by press conference, but doing like a quick, like a post-fight show on YouTube. Just like, hey, here's what happened, especially the ones where you have like such a crazy fit. and like a big thing happens, like immediately just building upon that.

And they'd be like, oh, by the way, here's John Martin coming up to react everything. And then after you get up, go back to the, go back to the desk. We keep talking. Then the next fighter comes up. But we just make like one thing as opposed to like two separate things like the UFC does and just build upon the momentum. But I think that's that's an interesting idea. I'll think about it.

That's an interesting idea. All right. That could be the first, you know, when you announce fights officially. You will announce that. I'm taking so much away from this forum. This is amazing. I can't wait to talk to Jed tomorrow. Lazy-ven.

I know why this question's coming, but I think we'll have a better answer. Which aspect of a mixed martial arts fight is John Martin's favorite? What gets you on the edge of your seat, John? I like it. I like it all. I mean, look, when I played soccer growing up competitively, I tried to be a competitive soccer player.

And so then when I started martial arts, I started in karate. And I loved it kicking. And that's what naturally I gravitated towards. And then eventually I learned I'm not, I think I got to Blue Belt and BJJ. So it's not like I'm an accomplished BJJ practitioner. But I've done a number of different arts. And I think that, you know, when I see a fighter that actually is accomplished and kicking and has that as part of their arsenal more,

than just a low kick. That's always really exciting to me. So I'd love to see fighters that bring that element more into the cage because I think, you know, more often than not now, you've got these wrestlers that are learning how to kick rather than guys that really know how to kick who are learning how to wrestle. So I don't know. It's just a personal preference. What's your favorite MMA fight of all time? There's too many. I mean, let's start. Oh my. gosh. I mean, so, okay, I will tell you, the finish where I was screaming at the TV because I was not there in person because I had not joined the PFL yet was Costello versus Eblen won. Ah, yes, yes. And because when

Costello had that, that joke, and look, I think Eblen was on his way to winning a decision in that fight and uh and then all of a sudden under 10 seconds left and ebblin didn't even tap he just went out and the ref stopped it i mean that was crazy that was a wild ending because johnny was was cruising to a win and yeah never know any anything can happen in this crazy sport it was it was the pfl's leon edwards moment right like just yeah it's over we tried and then bam just like that everything changed one thing and i mean look i i i've so many ufc fights that I remember, but one of the things, you know, because I was at early, I was evangelizing MMA to all my friends and colleagues when people thought I was nuts. And, and, but I, I saw, you know,

the Stefan Bonner-Farrest Griffin fight, which was the fight that kind of put them on the map. That was an extraordinary, extraordinary display of just, you know, will, sheer will. And so I'll never, I'll never forget that fight. But there's just, there's so many. And I was a huge Randy Couture fan and all the fights of the Anakin's Chuck and Tito. And those are just amazing. Tim Sylvia, the knockdown. Tim Sylvia, the one.

Oh, yeah. Sheesh. What was the fight when Sylvia busted his arm to? Was that Mier versus? That was Frank Mere, yeah. That was Frank Mier. Yeah, that was another one. Yeah, yeah.

Some nasty stuff there. But Randy came back after all those years and knocked Tim Sylvia down, won the heavyweight title is like i really wanted randy to beat brock lesnar too i mean that was like you know but that was just not to be but yeah a couple more that we because we got to get out of here goblin and i don't know how how well you could answer this and how many much you talked but was francis good to work with does he believe dana when he says that francis pushed him so i mean you really have to i mean if you want touch on the second part you can but what can you tell us from your knowledge from your experience working with francis and god i know it wasn't for a very

long time. It wasn't a long time. I've spoken and been with Francis any number of times. He was always very professional. So I have no issues and no problems. Okay. What like what was the determining factor in I know both sides kind of wanted it, but when you when you see the headlines like Francis no longer with PFL and now he's gone on and he did the MVP event and you were there for that. But what at least can you tell us from from the professional fighter league perspective of like, man, this is a tough one. Like, we invested so much into this guy. Like, this is our guy. Like, we stole so many headlines with this, but like we only got one fight out of them. What were those discussions like in the room where it's just like,

all right, we just got to cut bait here. Like, maybe we don't want to, but we got to make the tough choice here. Yeah, I mean, we couldn't find the fight that made sense economically for the promotion. And so I tried. I mean, we had some, we had some ideas. We had some things that we thought we could do that that would be good for the PFL and good for Francis. And they just didn't come together in the end. And I sort of thought that he would land at MVP. And at MVP, that card is being underwritten by Netflix.

So it's just a different set of facts and circumstances. All right. Let's see if I can find one more question. Oh, John, Sally and Parnasse. He's out there. He is out there. We can get, and then Usen, if we can lock him up, like, if we, if we do this, we can resign Usman Ramagamadoff and his first defense with a win on July 31st under the

new deal is he could fight Saladin Parnasse. Massive fight. Cosmos throw it out there. How good would that fight be, especially after watching Saladin in person a couple of weeks ago? He looked good. He looked really good. And look, he's a free agent. and, you know, we'll talk to him, just like I know that other promotions are talking to him as well.

So we'll see. I mean, he's an exciting fighter. And last question, lazy in closing. What do you want people to walk away feeling after watching a PFL event? That's a good question. I mean, I just want them to walk away and say that was a really high-level premium MMA event. It was exciting with exciting fighters, professionally produced. I think our event production is as good as anybody.

And, you know, we have to do it a bit of, you know, we've got to be very mindful about the financials behind it. But we've got some really world-class people. We're trying to do a lot more in the arena itself. So if you come to one of our events, it paces a lot better, a lot faster. It's more exciting to sit there. The pacing is something that drove me crazy when I used to watch the PFL. So I think we're much better at that now.

And so if you come in person, you know, you walk away and you feel that energy that, you know, only, look, I've gone to World Series. I've been to three World Cups. I've been to Super Bowls, the NBA finals, NCAA Final Four. You go to an MMA event. I've never been at a sporting event where there's more energy. And there's just in, you're in that arena. And when the arena is rocking, you leave and your adrenaline is really pumping. I want fans to be able to feel that.

And I want people who engage with the PFL to say, this was a really high quality event. And I want them then to come back. I mean, look, in the sport of mixed martial arts, there really has to be more than one global promotion. That's a success. and a sustainable success. And I want it to be the PFL. There could be others in addition to the PFL. But, you know, we need the fans who like the PFL.

We need your support. And we need to come out and engage and watch us, try to find us on TV and watch us. And then when we're in town, come and see us. I think I speak for many MMA fans. Thank you for being a part of the pacing fixtures. Golly, man. And I talked about it. And I think I know certainly I appreciated it much more on Saturday when we're watching the RICO,

Alexander Usikar. We're waiting. Like I even tweeted out. I was like the PFL card started 90 minutes after the boxing card started. I was like it ended 40 minutes ago. And then we waited another 40 minutes for the main event to even have ring walks. It was so, and it was so frustrating sitting there. You guys are wrapped and packed.

You were probably like back in your hotel room by the time the main event. main event started. Like I could not believe how long it took. But yeah, that was something that I think people had a big issue with, but obviously shored up people. I had a lot of people reach out to me on Saturday being like, man, this PFL events fly and they fix this. Like, this is great. So well, I appreciate the feedback. You know, fans are not shy about telling us stuff they don't like. So every once in a while, getting some positive feedback actually makes us feel pretty good. But the pacing used to drive me crazy. Yeah. So it's much better now. Last thing I'm going to ask you personally, What's the biggest critique you've seen from fans?

Biggest. What does that mean? What's the biggest critique you've seen? Because you said like you see it and fans aren't afraid to tell you anything. What's like the most consistent criticism you think you've seen? I think pacing would probably one of them up until now. But what do you think the fans are saying to you now in terms of like, hey, please do this. Please fix this.

And I know you got some questions in here today. But social media is a different world. Yeah, we've got some direct questions today. Look, I would tell you, there are always. going to be fans that think that matchmaking could be better. They're always, but that's okay. That's part of the sport. And as long as people are talking about us, that's okay.

And I think a lot of what I see now, too, is just people are complaining about they don't know how and when to find us. And so we're trying to use our own marketing to be able to be more direct about, you know, go to ESPN. This is on the network. This is on the app. Like, we have to do more of it ourselves because ESPN's not doing it. So I see a lot of frustration on that front.

And then, you know, it's nice to see when people are criticizing and saying, well, why don't you come to this city or why don't you come to that city? Because that means at least the promotion is in demand. But a lot of, you know, and a lot of people are just, there are always going to be people that just chirp and say, we don't see the PFL ever, like, really busting through. But, you know, that's fine. That's nonsense. Like, you know, I'm a fairly ambitious guy, and we're trying to put on a great product, and we hope we're putting on a product that fans are going to like and appreciate.

And so keep the feedback coming because I do read a lot of it. Our organization reads a lot of it, and we're trying to adapt and improve event by event. And every event that we conclude, we set a new bar, and we say, okay, the next event, it's got to be better. So, you know, we're not perfect by any stretch. We're trying hard. And, uh, and we're, you know, we're here to be sustainable and we want to, we want to succeed. There you have it, fans. I mean, one promoter will tell you, hey, if you don't like it, don't watch. And the other is like keeps, keep sending us the feedback. So that's, that's, that's good to hear. And, uh, I mean, we have to, we have to see it. And, uh, and, and so I mean it. I, I try to read a lot of it.

and we do filter it and look, we could always get better. But pacing was something I read from everybody when I came in. And I knew it for myself when I was watching the events going, this is just, wow. So we fixed it. And now, you know, now on to the next thing. So I think all feedback is good. Yes.

Well, what a year it has been thus far for PFL. The events have all been very fun. Big stretch coming up. We got lots of title fights coming up. It's going to be the summer of PFL. soon to be the summer of fights. And I think everyone is very, very excited for that. Before you let you go, John, any final words for the fans, for the viewers,

and for those listening on the podcast network after the fact? No, we appreciate. Look, we appreciate just, you know, sticking with us, and you should expect things to continue to get better. And that's our goal. And we're always trying to improve. And so I mean it, keep the feedback coming because, you know, this, it's really important for the industry, I think, for a promotion like PFL to succeed.

So if you like us, then support us. And when we're in town, come and be at the arena. And we've got between San Diego and Austin and Washington, D.C. And then Long Island, where I grew up, I mean, come and come to the event. And I think you'll be surprised in the U.S. the events feel a lot different than they used to. I mean, these are much, much bigger. And I'm excited to be able to bring that type of sport promotion to the United States.

So I'm very excited. I think we're off to a great start. And I think our future is very bright. John, you are the man. Thank you so much for doing this. I know it's not the easiest thing to do to kind of hop on the hot seat here. But you did it. You did a good job.

People have some very good feedback here. And anytime you want to come back on, man, we can do this again. If you want the great fan feedback, you come to the place where the best fans in the world are. And that's right here in our community. So thank you very much, John. I really appreciate you hopping on here today. Oh, thank you. Look forward to coming back.

All right. There is, everybody. The PFL CEO, John Martin, joining us for yet another edition of MMA Fighting's Town Hall. That is the fifth one in the books. And this is a lot of fun. It's a lot of fun. a lot today. Maybe fights in the future. Duly noted is what we got. That's not necessarily a no or it's never going to happen, but it's duly noted. And Jed will be very happy to hear that. So

thank you for all your questions, everybody. Thank you for everything. Shout out to John. Shout out to the folks over at PFL for setting this up as well. And that's it. Next time you will see me will be in Dallas, Texas on Friday. But until then, everybody, for John, I am Mike Heck. Have a great rest of your day. Thank you. for watching Town Hall and we will see you next time. We're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Support for this show comes from Odu. Running a business is hard enough.

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It's an all-in-one fully integrated platform that makes your work easier, CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, and more. And the best part, O-DU replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. That's why over thousands of businesses have made the switch. So why not you? Try O-D-O-4-free at O-D-O-D-O-O-com. That's O-D-O-O-O-O-com.