MMA Fighting - Trial Of The Century! Tom Aspinall vs. Jon Jones | Plus, Pereira Burns It All Down AGAIN | Rankings Show

Episode Date: November 15, 2023

Court is officially in session! Mike Heck and Jed Meshew (plus a special guest) join co-hosts Shaun Al-Shatti and Alexander K. Lee this week for the most important trial in MMA history. With UFC 295 in the rear-view, the gang hits the witness stand around (7:25) to settle once and for all whether Jon Jones or Tom Aspinall is the No. 1 heavyweight in the world. Then, the boys discuss how Alex Pereira has broken MMA — and Jed's brain — around (53:40), play another rollicking round of "What The F*** Are We Supposed To Do Next?" with the two heaviest and most confusing divisions in the sport around (1:11:50), and much, much more. Follow Shaun Al-Shatti @ShaunAlShatti Follow Alexander K. Lee @AlexanderKLee Follow Mike Heck @MikeHeck_JR Follow Jed Meshew @JedKMeshew Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking,

What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer,

but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the audible original blockbuster, the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love?

The downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. Available now, only from Audible. Podcast Network. What is up, my friends? This is the M.MA fighting rankings show. I am Sean Oshaddy, and I hope everyone out there in podcasts. I'm just having a delightful week.

We got the whole crew. My podcast co-captain the muscle behind the MMA fighting rankings, the Prince of Positivity. He's the King of the North. He's on a bulking cycle, so you better not mess with him. He is Alexander K. Lee. Also joined by a couple of superstar friends of ours. You probably know him.

Mike Heck, Jedmishu, winding down from another long and crazy week. How are we doing, fellas? All I do is win, Shaheen, so I'm doing great. Just this is, we said this on a meeting earlier this week off air, but I'm a huge fan of this particular program because it's really just turned into the Jed Mishu celebration parade once a month. We all get together to celebrate my victories

and my brilliant mind for this sport. So I love it. Happy to be here. What a tone. What a tone to set right away. Got to set the tone, boys. Yeah, I mean, you really had a dig deep for that Tom Aspinall prediction, Jed. I'm telling you, nobody thought Tom had any talent,

but you just come through with a bang. her and just nailed it. And that is a Mokachev guy. I guess everyone thought he was crap, but here you are coming through and enjoy. The victory lap continues. Like, how many victory laps are you going to do here? What, like, what else is left for you? You know, I don't know.

I'm looking around our rankings and seeing, I've been trying to figure out what's the next weight class I can get in on the ground floor of because that's the, that's the key, guys. The key in a situation like this, do you want to get in early? insert the audio of Jordan Bell for a, aka Leonardo DiCaprio and the Wolf of Wall Street. That's what I'm doing, guys. I just stake my claim early. And then we get to have these wonderful days like today.

I'm shocked. You have not made Umar your number one band-a- Don't give him ideas. He did. I'm just surprised. He already tried and do that. No, he never has. Never has.

I don't even think he's placed in the top of three. I could be wrong. I'm shocked that you haven't done it. Again, that's a rookie mistake on your party, okay, because you're right. That would be too early because if you send investment dollars in, but then it's going to take eight years to vest, and you've been wasting all that capital you could be investing in other places. Now I've got to pull my money out of the winning properties.

I need a bridge one. Umar's coming, but like no one's going to fight this dude. So it's still going to take some time. To quote another investment film, this is like the big short when, uh, I've Christian Bale's boss is yelling at him. And he's like, I wasn't, he's like, I'm not wrong. I'm just early. And they're like, that's the same thing.

They're like, in this business, that's the same thing. So I'm never wrong. Yeah. Sometimes I'm early. I'm trying to be less early these days. Okay. Oh my God. Just smugness levels off the charts already.

We're like two minutes in and the smugness is just blowing me away at this point. Can I say, I don't know if I've ever been more satisfied with our rankings than this recent update after 295. because not just satisfied with them, but like how important, I guess we didn't reveal the numbers yet, but people have seen, we have, by now they have seen our updated heavyweight rankings, our updated light heavyweight rankings and our updated men's pound for pound rankings, pound for pound, whatever. But our heavyweight and light heavyweight, this is why we have to do our independent rankings? Because you guys, I'm sure you're not like me. You don't see the comments. You go to the comments and so many in the comments are like, oh, why is this guy not on the list? Why isn't this guy number? How can this person be above this person? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. This is why it's important to have independent rankings that don't, you know, place all the emphasis on, you know, belt. Oh, are they a UFC champion? Are they this? Are they this?

Have they been this guy? Have they been this guy? Is this person still in the UFC? Should they be right? This is why you need independent rankings. This is why you need M.A. Fighting global rankings. And I think with this heavyweight situation we have now where you have, frankly,

three living active heavyways who have a very strong case to be considered number one. It's important to have a panel, at least, I don't want to say we are. are, you know, you have to take our number one as law. Say it. No. Say it. But I think on this show, I think on this show, we're going to make the case for it. We have three?

I said active. I'm just saying active heavy. Heavy weights who are still alive, maybe not necessarily competing in MMA, but certainly alive and could return. I got you. Could return at any moments. Let's put it that way. So this is why you need, this way you need independent rankings and not just

UFC rankings or whatever. And this is why you're such a good co-captain, AK, you just set me up. So fellows, as we sit here on this Tuesday, morning, we have a new number one heavyweight in the world. This is our third new number one heavyweight of the past four months, actually. First it was Francis. Then once he hit that 18-month cutoff for an activity, it became John Jones. And wouldn't you know it? The boy did it. Tommy Aspinall, Tommy, Tommy, Tommy, Spino, Espinall. Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, our new top big man in MMA. And y'all, this was as close and contentious as anything has ever been for this.

panel. Aspen all gets five first place votes for our team. Jones gets three and in the end, that was the margin. Tommy edges Jones out by a single point on our overall ballots. The margin was that thin. If one of those five aspiral votes goes the other way, we're having a totally different conversation right now. And AK, you just said it. It's not just us. The public perception on these two dudes is seemingly just as split. I'm seeing just as many Jones votes out there today in the wild in the comment section as I am for Tommy. So fellas, we're going to figure this one out today. Jed, you have some law experience, I believe. Do you not? I do. I have, the listeners can't see this, but directly to my left, there is a very expensive piece of paper

on my wall that says I graduated from law school. And another one right underneath it that says I was admitted to the state bar. I will also add for the listeners who can't see this that you are pointing to those with a gavel. It looks very professional. It looks, it looks tremendous. Is it that some mahogany? A rich mahogany? I don't know. It looks true. It's a rich mahogany.

And as we know, I'm nothing, if not professional sheen. True words have never been spoken. And that's good because court is now in session. Oh, yes, it's happening. The first official trial of the MMA fighting rankings panel on one side. We got the people's champ. We got the darling of the comment section. The beloved Mike Heck, who voted John.

Jones as the number one heavyweight in the world. And on the other side, we have the man Stephen A. Smith wishes he could be the mouth from the south, the only one among us who was willing to stamp his flag early and unequivocally on Team Tommy. We have Jed Mishu. And the honorable A.K. Lee is the judge presiding over this session. Yes. So in the case of Jones versus Askenal, I do declare, I do declare court is in session.

Who is the true number one and who got this wrong? Jed Mishu, you're the only one here who actually knows what to do. he's doing in this setting. So I'll give it to you first. Your opening arguments. Make your case. Oh, my opening arguments. Okay, well, opening arguments are where you would outline the case for what you

are trying to lay here. And it's very simple. What I'm going to prove to you guys today during this segment is it Tom Asperall is the number one heavyweight competing in the world. That's going to be a big stipulation we might get into later. But as it stands, there are rules. we have a codified bylaw of how to approach the voting here. And so we can only really vote for two men for this top spot.

Tom Aspernel is the only choice, and I'm going to prove that beyond, not just a preponderance of the evidence, guys, beyond a shadow of a doubt. This will be legally binding, not just in a civil court, but in a criminal one, because doing anything else would be criminal to pick any, one other than Tom Aspinall would be a criminal maneuver. I don't rest my case, but I do, I do see the floor.

Tremendous. Look at this. Mike, heck, the floor is yours. Look, I could do hand gestures and say loud things and just say 200 more words than I need to, like my opponent, Jen Mashu just did. But I am arguing on behalf of the greatest fighter that has ever competed in any cage. And I know activity is a very important word here, but I am here to lay out that John Jones's heavyweight resume, well, not as full as Tom Aspinall's. There's a very certain

points to all of this that will allow John to reign supreme in all of this. And before I close here, to quote the great William Martin Joel, Jed, you may be right. I may be crazy, but for the rest of you, that just may be a lunatic that you're looking for and you're hearing the lunatic right now and I'm happy to be that lunatic today. The poet William Joel. Yeah. William Martin Joel.

The Honorable Alexander Cayley would just like to say that is your limit, sir, for Billy Joel references on this in this previous. What about William Joel? William Joel, Billy Joel, whatever is name you choose to use. That is the, I love Billy Joel, and I was very impressive. a great, great usage of his wise words, my best friend. But, oh, I shouldn't say that while I'm being the judge.

But let's keep the Billy Joel quotes to a bit of going forward. Look, but it was, depending on where you live in the world, it was about 9 o'clock on a Saturday when this debate began when Tom Aspinall to meet Sergey Palach. Contemptive court is just hovering over your hands of things. I'm ready to bang the gavel when you need. I don't have one. Yeah, I think you have to handle the gavel banging, frankly.

Well, Your Honor, I would like to call my first witness, if I may. Please do so. The prosecution calls to the stand the resume of John Jones. More specifically, the heavyweight resume of Jonathan Robert Jones, actually. I think it's Dwight. I think it's Dwight. The resume of Jonathan Dwight Jones has heavyweight reads Thusely. Cereal gone.

UFC 285. First round submission, two minutes and four seconds. And that's it. That's the whole resume right there. It's a very quick, this witness can leave the stand almost immediately because he just got the one.

There's only one thing happening here. And that's it. That is the total use of this man's heavyweight career. I'm done with this witness. You may cross-examine him if you must, Mike. but there's not a lot to cross-examine because there's not a lot there. Well, I would love to, but I have a witness. His name is Dana White.

I'm going to bring him to the stand because according to Dana White, who is listed as the CEO of the UFC, very powerful man, John Jones scared the hell out of Francis and Gano to the point where he had to leave the UFC. Objection. The witness is perjuring himself on the stand. Listen, listen, here's a deal. The objection has been noted, but please continue. Objection has been noted, sir, the attention has been noted.

I threw up in my mouth as I was saying that. But I am here to say, I am here to say this about John's heavyweight resume. And whatever, I don't care about any of the Francis stuff at this point when it comes to this hierarchy. John Jones beating Cyril gone and his great as Tom Asman all has been, and as great as he looked on Saturday. these two gentlemen, John has the best win of the two at heavyweight. And it is Cyrilgan. Seral gone is the only man

to actually hold the title of any of these guys that Tom has fought. Tom is not fun anybody that has actually worn a title. Did he fight Andrea Lovsky perhaps? I don't even think that, yeah, he fought Andre Lovsky. I'm talking about a guy the greatest heavyweight of all time.

Yeah, but outside of Andrei Arlowski, John has actually fought a guy who's won a belt in the last three years. And a guy that many people on this here show and many other shows who said, this is the guy. This is the next generation of heavyweight. That man is Cyril God, a man who fought Francis God, a man who's headline multiple pay-per-views. Something Tom Aspinall has not done yet, nor has Tom fought a guy of that pedigree over the last three years. So as impressive as Tom has been, and look, you can only fight the guys

who are put in front of you. John has the best win. Cyril Gone is the best win of the bunch. It just is what it is. And we learn that on Saturday. As much as we like, Sergei Pavlovich still had a million questions about him. John has the best win. End of discussion. I don't need to cross-examine Dana White because we can't trust anything. The man says. Get the fuck out of here.

I will no longer allow perjury in this court of law. Hold on. The witness is brought it. He is a respected member of the MMA community. His testimony will be heard and respected by the fictional jury. I hope I'm not the one who has to make the call here. I don't know who makes the call. It's a great question.

His testimony will be, his testimony has been. her. Do not disregard that witness, please. That witnesses. Yeah. Dana's going to go on the podcast that thought Cheeto Vera was Patricia Pitbull right now. Mike, thank you for not bringing up that John Jones has a win over the great Parker Porter.

That bout did take place at light heavyweight once upon a time. I didn't need that one. No, you didn't need to. But I'm sure I can hear murmurings in the gallery. I hear murmurings in the gallery like Parker Porter. Didn't John Jones fight Parker? Yes, he did. He did beat the current heavyweight goat Parker Porter.

But this was a 205 pound bout. And thus that evidence shall not be considered. in this case. Your Honor, I'd just like to note for the record, no objection here. What the defense has suggested here is strictly subjective saying that Cyril Gahn is the best of these wins because I don't know. I personally believe that Sergei Pavlovich is every bit as good as what Cyril Gahn has been. But we'll get to that because I'd like to call my next witness, Your Honor. And keeping true to form, I'd like to call Tom Aspinall. to the stand.

Tom, we have Tom Aspinall here. It's very exciting to have him here. Tom, first question for you. Can you tell me how many currently ranked heavyweights you have victories over? If I could do a British accident, you guys would be cooked right now, but I can't. So instead, we're just going to stick with me. The answer, ladies and gentlemen, is four.

One, two, three, four. Sergei Pavlovich, Marcine Taiborrao, Alexander Volkov, Sergey. Steevac. Do you know the collective amount of time it took him to beat four currently top? Let me look at what our rankings are right now for heavyweight. So number two by our rankings, Sergei Pavlovich, Volkov's number seven, Spivak's number 10. Tyboros also tied for number 10.

The combined amount of time is five minutes and some change for him to beat those four. I would say rest of my case, but I'll just throw in the Cyril Gahn is the best win, says who, because the current MMA fighting heavyweight rankings have Sergey Palfaich above Cyril Gond, Your Honor, I don't know that I need more. This man has better wins. He's got way more of them. He's currently active. And by the way, he didn't just blow out his pack and is on an indefinite hiatus because we don't know when he's coming back.

There is one man who is going to build. and lead us to the heavyweight future that we are in right now. When John comes back, I'm not going to change my mind because beating a 42-year-old steepa doesn't matter. This guy, Tom Aspinall, he's the one and only, I rest my case, Your Honor. I just have to note that throughout this whole soliloquy, Jed is waving this gavel around very authoritatively. It's very effective.

Threateningly, I would almost call it. I might bring this gavel to BTL, really just add a little bit of trash. Yeah, I mean, I wish you'd bring some out. to your words. Yeah, that's, that was really impressive. Look, your argument's impressive, but we also have to understand one very important thing. Heavyweight stinks. It is a stinky, stinky division.

And a lot of those names that you mentioned, had that resume be put in any other division, they would not be ranked. You think Sergei Speedback would be ranked at Bantamweight right now? Alexander Romanov is the 13th ranked heavyweight in the world, and he's had a couple of the worst losses you could possibly, find in this division. Marcus Ruggiero de Lima is a top 15 guy. Rodrigo Nassamento is a top 15 ranked UFC fighter, Jed.

For the record, Nassimento. I believe Sergey Spivak would absolutely demolish Piotr Yan. So if we want to allow him to fight phantom weights, I think he's going to do really well in that way class, guys. I think, listen, I would take a dog shot on Piotr for being honest. Look, Jed, I'm here to tell you that I am ready to ride shot in this journey with you. And we're going to take a long ride in the Tom Aspinall journey.

And we're probably have left the driveway. We're still in town. Don't to jump on the highway. We're just not there yet. We're just not there to turn it up to a hundo and flirt with the speed limits here. We're just not there yet. Like, we're very close. We're just not there where Tom is the one leading the dance.

There's hurdles to overcome. Does he beat Cyril Gahn? Does he win his next interim? way title defense. Does John fight before Tom Aspinall? These are all questions we need answers to. And I'm not here to say that Tom Aspinall is not

going to be the driver of this division. He probably will be. And gosh darn it, Jed, I hope we live in that world. But right now, there is a little bit of darkness. It's a little bit of darkness and it's coming out of fucking Albuquerque and his name is John Jones. And unfortunately, until this

pain in the derrier decides that he is riding off into the sunset, are taking a long vacation, or decides, Jed, that he's not afraid of Tom Aspinall and we'll stand inside the octagon with him. We're just not going to have the answer to this question. So I do believe, I do believe with everything in my being, Jed Mishu, that we are about to embark on the Tom Aspinall era. But until that darkness leaves, until the clouds part and the sunshine comes out with two scoops of rays, singing the Tommy Aspinall theme song, I just can't say that Tom is the guy just yet.

He just isn't, but he's about to be. He's that woman you met at the bar. You're a 19-year-old, but you ain't ready for a commitment yet, but you know that in five years you will be. And I'm not saying it's going to take five years for Tom Aspinall, but boy, I can't wait to go into the future and meet that love of my life again,

because I know she's the one. She just ain't right now. Mr. Hack, thank you, Jed, before you proceed, Can I just say, well, that's fantastic. Can I just say, Mr. Red, can we please watch the language in court? Can we tone the Boston down? Can we tone the Boston down? I saw a lot of Boston.

You do live in South Carolina now. I saw Boston and Mike coming out. I appreciate that you repressed as much you could. Also, slandering the heavyweight division, a little bit off sides. Let's please be respectful. It's a bad division, AK. I'm sorry. Judge AK, objection.

Excuse me. It's a bad. How dare you, Judge. to the judge this way. What is this? Let's be, let's be, thank you, Jed.

Let's be respectful to all divisions. If I hear one negative word about the women's spantoweight division, you'll be ejected immediately from the court. You will be ejected immediately. Jed, I'm sorry. You had, I know you had something to say,

please, go ahead. Your Honor, I'd like to call another witness to the stand. Oh, my God. There's a lot of witnesses. I thought the case is over. You can't do that. I thought the case was over as well,

but okay. It's a rebuttal witness based on some things. that Mike had just brought to the table. I'd like to call Shaheen Al-Shadi to the stand. Gas. Oh, my. Terror. Who knew?

Shaheen, first I'd like to open this up to you before I ask. I've one very pointed question for you. But specifically, what are your thought? You know, this is an expert witness, your honor. So I'd like to qualify him as an expert witness. Well, thank you. Sheen, what's your resume in mixed martial arts? Uh, you know, how long have you been covering the sport?

About 13-ish, 14-ish years, I'd say. And prior to that, how long were you a fan of the sport? Oh, I'd say a good four, five, six, seven years-ish range. So we've got just about 20 years of MMA expertise here. This man has qualified to, to render opinions on the likes of things like Cyril God is a better win than Sergei Pavlovich. So my first question, Sheen, is, is Cyril Khan a better win than than Sergei Pavlovich? In your expert opinion, want to be clear, expert opinion. No, sir, he is not. And, you know, to my members of the jury here today, I respect and love you so deeply. And I

respect and love this man, this man, Mike Heck in front of me, my bald brother, he has been let astray, Your Honor. And I am, I am in great fear for this man. He is smarter than this. Sergei Pavlovich is such a better win than Cyril God. What are we talking about? Mr. Alciadi, please. Sirgey Pavelovich is an infinitely better win. Control your witness. I'm just saying, Mr. Humbass, please. Seven wins and heavyweight in the U.S. Seven wins. His only lost non-contact injury in a matter of seconds. Seven wins in this division. This This man has put in the work. He has the resume.

You will respect the resume. This is crazy talk. This is crazy talk. I cannot. Hold on. Your honor. Your honor, I'm done with the witness.

Okay. He's yours to cross. Mr. Alshaddy, please. I have two things I want to say. And then I actually have a witness myself. I have two things.

If we're talking about longevity, in terms of who covers the sport and being fans of sport, I happen to have. Stephen Morocco and Damon Martin. Damon Martin, if you count the times that he doesn't sleep, has been covering the sport for 75 years. And he has John Jones. Sounds like you should have done your research.

I don't need it. I don't need it. You want to put in experience and time. I have Damon on my side. So checkmate, son of a bitch. Language. Mr. Heck, the language, please. Your honor.

Objection. He's talking about hypothetical witnesses. Not in this. No, no. Not in the way. Hold on. Here's the other thing. Here's the other thing.

Let's talk about the Sergei Pavlovich win and what it means. Because, yes, Sergey has been a killer. And yes, we still have a much. That Sergey Pavlovich currently ranked higher than Cyril gone. On the MMA fighting and ranking contempt of court. A.K., I want to bank the gavel. Okay, fair enough. Bank the gavel, Jim.

I'm a longsome leeway here. He lost to Alastair Overeem. Got out wrestled by Alistair Obrim, by the way. His wins are Marcelo Golm. Fine fighter. Maurice Green. Fine fighter. Shamiel is there a team off.

Oh my God. It's David. What happened? It's David 316 says I just, what's the arrest? Yeah, we have a run in. This is the legal term, dead. We have a run in. We have a formal run in.

Yes. Get control of this courtroom. You can't have people busting in. No, this is allowed. This isn't illegal. I have arrived. What? Stone Cold is here, what?

I'd like to call Damon Martin to the stand. Okay, Michelle Lshaddy, I need a rebuttal when this is all over. Very well, you'll have your moment. Michelle Shaddy, if you could remove your sweet ass from this witness chair for a moment. Oh, dare you? Please come in here.

What a kangaroo court is this? The judge saying sweet ass. This is all above board. Damon. Damon, thank you for joining us. Mr. Hectorcede. Damon. This is Judge Mike Bray.

Hold on. Judd, shut the hell. up. David. How long, since this is the point of Jed's argument, how long have you been covering mixed martial arts? Since 2003, so 20 years. Hmm, 20 years. And how long were you a fan of MMA and combat sports before then? Since UFC 2 was my first event I watched live. So we're talking like almost 30 years of experience. That's correct. Wow. I mean, that's more than the other side, but Okay. I'm so stipulate.

He is a qualified expert witness. Thank you. I appreciate that. Damon, much like myself, we both, we had a decision to make. We could have chose Tom Aspinel to be the number one heavy weight in the world. Or we could have chose John Jones as the number one heavyweight in the world, who is, one, the undisputed heavyweight champion of the world. He holds the actual belt. I know we have an interim champion, but injury, shim injury.

You went with John Jones, Damon. you know John Jones who defeated Cyril Gahn to win that title and his only heavyweight fight. A point of contention, Jed says John's resume really doesn't matter in this discussion. Tom's has the better resume by far. And there's no way you can argue that Cyril Gahn is not the best win of either of these two guys, which I am arguing. So I ask you, Mr. O.G. Damon Meyer, a man who has been covering and being a fan of this sport for almost three decades,

why did you choose John Jones as your number one heavyweight? John Jones, there's a lot of reasons, but let's just start with the number one, which is he is, he's the greatest fighter of all time. You look at his resume top to bottom. No one can match him. I'm sorry, George St. Pierre. I'm sorry, Anderson Silva. I'm sorry everybody. This is not a legacy vote.

Out of order. Objection. Objection. You are no shouting from the from the calendar, please. He is the greatest mixed martial artist of all time. He is. This is one of the. He is one of the.

I actually, the only reason he's not my number one pound for pound fighter in the world right now is because what Islam Ocatchez-Makcha just did to Alexander Volcanowski. Otherwise, John Jones would be my number one pound for pound fighter in the sport right now. He went out and absolutely decimated Cyril Gahn in, what was it, 90 seconds, choked him out. Yeah, close enough. Went out there and choked him out in rapid fire fashion. More time than 69 seconds, I'll tell you that, 69 seconds. Smaller amount of time.

It was a little bit longer time than that against a arguably a better opponent, I think. Cyril Ghan is more established. You can sit here and say that Sergey Pavlovich was off six straight knockout wins. Okay, I agree. He's a very impressive guy, very impressive guy. He also got absolutely mollywapped by Alistair over him in his debut. Cyril Ghan's two losses in the UFC came to Francis and Gano, who you could argue may be the best heavyweight, but he's just not.

not active right now. Uh, and John Jones. So who else is he lost to in the UFC? Um, trying to think about this. How about Sergey? Um,

are we trying to act like prime Alist or him is a bad loss? I'm very confused here. I don't, I don't know, I don't know if I call that prime Alist or prime Alistro witness. Witness,

I'll, I'll handle these nonsense. Let me lead the objection. I'm sorry. Prime Alist or Overeem is a stretch at that point. Let's just be honest. about that. Like, that's a bit of a stretch at that.

Yeah. I mean, that's, you know, that's long after the horse meets gone bad. I mean, come on now. Uh,

yeah. So when you look at this top to bomb, and again, John Jones's dominance plays a part. I don't care what you say about resume, all these kind of thing. His dominance plays apart. He's the most,

one of the most dominant forces we've ever seen in this sport. And he is the undisputed champion. Now, you can say it's disputed based on the Francis and Gano factor. Francis and Gano is not here anymore. He's getting into fighting anti-deleisure. in PFL. Are we really going to care about that that much? No, he's gone. He's not in the UFC anymore. John Jones is the undisputed champion. Tom Aspinel's good. Make no mistake about it. Tom

Aspinel is a good fighter, but he's not John Jones. John Jones is number one. That's why. I'd like to cross-examine this witness. Just one minute. Hold on, Mike. Mr. Heck, are you done with, are you done with, I mean, I would love to hear Jed cross-examine, but I mean, it's already 10-7 Damon right now over Shaheen, so I'm loving this. How do you? How do you? Fortunately, witnesses aren't competing against each other. In this court, maybe in this kangaroo-ass court they might judge

friggin' Brian Minor over here. Can't see shit. Anyway, I just a very quick, I just want to confirm, Damon, what you are saying, and please correct me if I'm putting words in your mouth,

you're saying, in your expert opinion, that Cyril Gahn is a better win than Sergey Pavlovich. Is that correct? Yes. Would it shock you to nine, and previously, now you didn't say this, but previously the argument was made by the, uh, the defending attorney that, you know, Cyril Gaon is, is superior because of the, the resume he has accumulated because of the fact primarily that he won a title

in this weight class. Would you agree with that statement? He has won an interim title when he beat Derek Lewis. That's correct. And would, and would you say that winning that title makes him a better win? and Sergey Pavlovich. I would say it makes him a more established win than Sergey Pavlovich, absolutely. Then would it shock you to know that the man Cyril Gan beat to win that title?

Sergei Pavlovich also beat to win that title. And in fact, while it took Cyril Gan three rounds to beat Derek Lewis, it took Sergey Pavlovich 55 seconds. How are we going to pretend that Sergey isn't at least as good? Maybe he's not better than Cyril gone as a win. The win is at least the same level of quality. Their opposition is not terribly different. Yes, they've both thoughts.

Cyril lost twice in the last two and a half years. Sergei's lost that we brought up here five years ago at some point. And I know that this is going to rub you the wrong way, Damon, because you're holding on to John Jones, the greatest fighter of all time, who hasn't beaten anybody worse shit in like seven years. At some point, the history dies. At some point, we have to live in the now or the recency.

And not seven years ago, John put together an unbelievable run at light heavyweight. And then he probably lost to Dominic Gray as and got lucky and then beat Cyril gone. That's not what's happening. Sergei Pavlovich is putting in the work today, yesterday, and tomorrow. And Tom Asimol is putting in that same work and knocked him out. Can I have a point of contention here real quick with that? Let me just throw this out there. I'm saying multiple we want to talk. Damon, please go first.

I will let you know what's next. So, yes, Derek Lewis did lose to Cyril Gahn. He got knocked out by Cyril Gond after a four-fight win streak. Very impressive win streak. He goes out there and beats Chris Dawkus, who, you know, we know what Chris Dawkins is. And then he got knocked out by Tai Taito Ivasa. Then he got knocked out by Sergey Pavlovich. Is it not possible that by the time that Sergey got to Derek Lewis, his chin had already been cracked?

And we've seen Derek Lewis what he's been since then. He is two and six, two and four in his last seven fights. I don't know that the Sergei Pavlovich that got, that not got Derek Lewis is the same Derek Lewis as Cyril gone off a four-fight win streak just knocking out Curtis Blades cold. Curtis Blades, you know, the guy that has a win over Tom Aspinall, just throwing that out there. And Tom Aspinall, Tom Aspinall, for that matter, listen, I hate to sit here. We're going to sit here and this is a debate, so we're going to sit here and tear down a guy. I hate to do this, but I got to do this. obviously Tom Aspinall beating Sergei Pavlovich matters. Who else is he beaten?

Marchine Tibera. Three other ranked heavyweights. That's who else he's beaten. That's a stretch by today's day. Yeah, Alexander. Alexander Volkov. That's fucking math. They rank.

They have numbers. Alexander Volka. Sergei Spivak, like, come are we really going to sit here? Are those really truly like, man, high level? The guy Cyril Gahn just beat to, like, get, back in everyone's good graces. Alexander Volkov, the dude that Zero Gone beat to become

this top level guy that's such a good win John did? They're the same shit being the same dudes. Mr. Martin, your expertise when you recognize we will come back to you. There's an obnoxious gentleman in the gallery who keeps trying to get my attention. So for the sake of getting this bullshit overweight.

Rebuttal witness, you all right? No, not anymore. But we'll allow him to speak, just for the sake of hilarity. So to amuse us. Yes, Mr. Shell Shaddy. I thought we were done with you. I just have to say it.

I, these accusations of 10-7s flying all over the place in this courtroom, I do not appreciate it. I am here to watch orderly and fair trial, and I am not seeing that. And also what I'm seeing on this stand right now, I'm seeing a liar. Okay. I'm seeing a man with lots of flowery language, lots of big, bold claims, but his claims, he does not back them up in reality. I would have the honor. I would submit to the honor, the court. If you look at the MMA fighting global rankings submission sheets last month before

this event. Who did Damon Martin have higher? Sergei Pavlovich or Cyril gone? I could give you that answer. I think that's what they call a smoking gun. Damon Martin had Sergey Pavlovich at number two and Cyril gone at number four in the heavyweight rankings. I would now submit to the court if you look at him today the rankings that David Martin just filed to 48 hours ago. Who does he have a head right now? Sergei Pavlovich or Cyril gone? He still has Sergei Pavlovich. Sergei Pavlovich, in this man's own estimation, estimation is still better of better win than Cyril gone. It's in writing, we have it there.

I'd also like to suggest, I'd also like to add that the defense attorney did the exact same thing with Sergey Pavlovich last month, two spots ahead of Cyril gone. Oh. Yeah. You win, you're active. This is your chance to respond.

It's all good. You win and you're active. Yeah. That's a key. That's all important stuff. But John still. as the best win. That's all that matters right now. Now, like I said before, like I said before, Tom is a win away. Tom is a win away from changing this entire discussion. But the man,

there's only one guy who was wearing a title in any of this, in any of this debate. And there was Cyril Gunn. It was not Sergei Pavlovich. He was only fighting for a mere title, a title that Cyril Gan won and a title, yeah, he won it. And John smushed him. Smushed him. Can I also throw out the interim the interim title while we're all going to bang the drum about that and i'll even i'll even listen i'm not going to denigrate what the guy did but i'll say even cyril ghan's title for that matter the interim title that tom aspinall is holding right now is a promotional tool it's not a real title he got it because they needed to promote a fight card after john jones the you know the greatest of all time fell off the card when they lost him they needed to promote that so they put another title

line. That's why. There's no other reason he's holding an interim title right now than the UFC needed a promotional tool. Now, I will be fair and say, Suril Ghan's title came much the same way because Francis and Gano had just won his title three months earlier and they basically tried to force him into a fight in September. Again, I'm not discounting that, but I'm saying that sitting here banging the drum to Tom Aspenal's a champion. Is he really a champion though? I mean, he has a title, but, you know, come on now. That's not a real title. Multiple, multiple people right now are just bursting to speak. Okay.

Hold on. I think it's fair to say, and I think it's a fair question to ask, which one of these interim title challengers between Cyril Gaun and Tom Aspinall actually headlined their interim title fight? Hmm. What does it have to do with anything?

It was CIRL's God. There you go. That's just card dip. Hold on. Let's go to Mr. Michoud, Mr. Michoud, I would also ask you to tone down the Georgia.

I've asked Mr. Heck to tone down the Boston a little bit last time. I'd ask you to tone. I saw some, a lot of that Georgia come. comment out last time. If we could tone down the Georgia, just a touch, Mr. Martin, the Ohio levels, just right. Mr. Lshaddy, if we could take the Arizona all the way down to zero, that would be fantastic, but I don't know if that's possible. But Mr. Michoud, please, it's,

go ahead. I can see bursting to make some points here. Well, I don't have any idea what headlining has anything to do with championships. I was, I was so ready to get on here and just run Damon Martin down. I don't have to, because he said the words himself. He just didn't emphasize in the correct way, Cyril Gans title came much the same. No, it didn't. It's actually far more fraudulent because Cyril Gons came three months after Francis won the belt and they were trying to force Francis's hand. It is among the most paper titles that this company has ever put on a fighter. It's not to disrespect Cyril Gond or Derek Lewis as very, very quality heavyweights. But that's one of the more paper belts of all time. In contrast,

Like David said, I'm not here to say that Tom Aspinall's the champion in Zach's same, but John won his belt, not three months before this fight, but nine, nine months. And unlike Francis who, you know, was there and there was negotiations, John has a long term, maybe not long term, but a serious injury that forced him off of this. And here's the kicker, the big enchilada of all of this guys, That we're not talking about that much, because it's not necessarily the most important, but it is absolutely critical factor in all of this. Not a person in this court of law right now, Your Honor, believes that John Jones will

fight Tom Aspinall next. Tom will not get, as Mike has said, the one win away to prove it. We are all aware that John Jones, when and if he returned sometime in the middle of next year, 2024, he will fight Stepe Meachich. And while that might mean something to Damon, who believes that wins that happened a decade ago are still relevant to your ranking today, apparently, it doesn't mean shit to me because Stepe Meachich is not a relevant heavyweight. We're all, all of us under the impression Stepe will quit the sport after that fight. And I would suggest, though I can't say with certainty, all of us think that more likely than not, John will also exit the

sport after he fights steep. So the argument here is simple. It's not just the wins that have already happened, which Tom's are better in this way class. It is the wins that are to come, the place they will have to come. Because John will, more likely than not, have one fight left, and it will be a meaningless heavyweight fight as far as the rankings and the division are concerned. It is a legacy vanity bout that is going to happen hell or high water,

whereas Tom Aspinall will be fighting whoever it is that comes. And on top of all of the other reasons he's the number one guy, that absolutely makes a difference to me. But if you discount the past, why are you crediting the future? Because we don't know what's going to happen in the future. I'm discounting eight years ago in the past. I'm not discounting the current relative. But you're also, you're also, you're also,

admit you're saying the future matters. We can all speculate that John Jones is going to retire. We don't know that. We can all speculate. I mean, I disagree. I disagree that Steve Miochich is still a quality win. We can sit here and say that yes, he's been out for three years and he may not be the same steepate, but are we going to discount that he's arguably the greatest heavyweight of all time?

I'm absolutely going to be a good. But you're also playing futures here. You're saying that just because you believe John Jones is going to retire after beating Steve Miochich, that that that makes Tom Aspinall. the number one heavyweight in the world. That's ridiculous. Exactly what I didn't say. I said, on top of all the other reasons that it's already there,

this is an additional and credible factor to involve. That should not be a reason at all, though. The future does better. Who knows? The future matters way more than John's wins at light heavyweight four years ago, like way more. And that was a critical part of your, he's the greatest fighter.

I speculate, I speculate that I speculate that Tom Aspinall is going to lose to jail to down. So by that rationale, by that by that rationale, I can't put Tom number one because we're playing futures. I think he loses to Jelton. Well, I can't put him number one. He might lose to jailton. So. Your Honor, I'd like to suggest that the witness just purged himself because I don't fucking think for a minute he believes that Tom loses to Jelty.

That's quite an accusation. Mr. Rishu, you cannot levy that against a witness right now. I'm pretty sure I can actually go back and find the slack messages where Damon's like, Jelton. are not, we have all agreed the slackmen. Those are not admissible in court. They're not admissible in court. You don't want to go digging into that dirt.

Let me tell you something. Apparently our court room turned into minority report here. We're just letting the futures to sort of decide everything here. Let me just say on the topic of Steepa initially being a quality win in the year of our lower 2024 upcoming, uh, Jed Mishu has a reputation, well documented as a noted steep Miotich hater and Damon. I don't know that that is admissible in this court of law. Steve has zero wins over anyone even employed by the UFC.

I have 12 and a half hours of BTL footage of Jed hating. Objection. I think you've got more than that, honestly. The jury understands how much Jen Michoud hates. That is there. That is fine. The prosecuting attorney so stipulates. I'm not here to debate anything in that regard.

Gentlemen, I think, I don't know, Mr. Michelle, I think that was like your gavel time. That was my point. I think it's time to, yeah. It felt pretty strong. Also, we've been at this for. quite some time. Yes.

I just have, I've, Mr. Heck, please. I have one question for, for the judge. Um, you are under oath.

So you have to answer this very honestly. Um, are you actually not under oath? Well, he will be right now. This is, this is, this is,

this is in the regular court. Is that true? The judge, okay, are you, do you want? Yeah, they don't take any else.

I mean, they take it earth when they're sworn in, but, okay. Okay. Okay. Judge AK, your honor.

Yes. Are you or are you not the best friend of the defense attorney? legally speaking, I have to admit to this. Correct. We are best friends, yes. Okay. Fair enough. That's the most begrudging admission of friendship I've ever.

Legally speaking, I have to admit to being your friend. Here's here's my, the last point I'm going to make. And I've said this, I believe I said this on heck of a morning this morning. The way this rankings works is the same way I had the rankings following in the pound-for-pound discussion, following Islam Makachev's win over Alexander Volkanowski, where while the world was ready to anoint Volkanowski, despite losing that fight, is still the number one guy. I put Islam in that spot. And the reason was, it's not one and two. It's one A and one B. And I said that the second Volcanowski wins that next fight, if he fights before Islam, he will probably jump up to number one.

That's pretty much where I'm at right now with this. Tom goes and fights Cyril Garn and it, there's Garn. Who the hell is Cyril Garn? Cyril Gahn, let's just say they go to London in April, and Tom just washes Cyril Gond. Guess who's going to be number one with the bullet the day after that? Or I'm sorry, an hour after that, because we have to get those rankings in so damn fast. It will be Tom Aspenol.

So as it may look on the thing, it's one and two. It's actually 1A and 1B. And it's a fight that we all need to see that I'm actually going to put out into the positive juju universe that we are going to see this fight. Because I think, Jed, you actually nailed this, on the post-fight show that the MMA community, and I heard it a lot this morning on heck of a morning,

they're going to trip and tell John Jones that he's scared of Tom. It's the best. The shame is got so much juice to it already. The shame angle is the best idea that Jen is ever come up with. I think this is going to happen. And then we're going to get our true answer. But it's John 1A, Tom 1B.

I love you, Jed. It's a great rate. You putting Asperl number one is a tremendous ranking for a tremendous website. I'm just not there just yet. I'm very close though. I'm very close. Your Honor, I'm very sorry.

This would be very brief. I have one very minute closing statement. I'll believe that when I see it, but go on. It'll take me 20 seconds. It's for anyone who thinks they want to put John Jones. It's really just a question you need to ask yourself. Do you want a coward to be your number one heavyweight in the world? Because he's afraid of Tom Aspinall.

He's so afraid of him. He won't fight him. He's going to fight a geriatric fireman instead of fighting. Tom Aspinall because he's scurred. John, you scurred. And I personally would never put a skirt man as my top heavyweight in the world. Wow. Case closed.

Is this one of those courts where I have to make some score a decision? Am I judged duty in the situation? Yes. Also, I didn't have to take a special break before you do it. Just to correct Mr. Michoud. Just to correct Mr. Mishu. Steve actually has a winner.

Under Olofsky, current UFC heavyweight, just throwing that out there. A guy he beat years before Tom Aspinol beat him. Just throwing that out. Soft in a month. Seems to be, yeah. See, soften them up. Seems to be the, the theme of all of this.

I stand corrected. Cyril softening them up. He also knocked out Phil de Freeze. Well, a lot of people have ranked. I believe there's a few people who have Phil de freeze ranked right now. See, they knocked him out gold. Just saying, just saying. I did not expect us to reach decades ago.

The freeze levels of conversation here. I love it. Just saying. Literally over a decade ago. Well, A.K. You're on a legal. You can't get some decisions to make. I was going to say.

Well, gentlemen, that was a spirited debate, spirited conversation. Thank you both. Thank you, everyone. Thank you, Mr. Hick. Thank you, Mr. Mishu. Thank you, Mr. Martin. Michelle Lshaddy. I was speaking to you later.

But for now, I expressed my begrudging gratitude for your participation. It's, I like that we kind of came to a almost a civil, almost on the fence. Well, I mean, maybe my. I don't think that that's what we came to. Yes. We acknowledge the greatness of both. then we acknowledge the greatness of both cases. John Jones, I acknowledge John Jones as a scared little girl.

Arguably the greatest fighter of all time, maybe not to say the greatest heavyweight, but certainly the resume, the greatest fighter of all time, looks spectacular in his low and heavyweight fight, was supposed to add to his legacy at UFC 295 against the consensus, Mr. Michouda, I know you love this word,

the consensus greatest heavyweight in all of MMA, Steve A Miotich. So, Johns is, you know, We all understand the case for Jones, and we certainly understand the case for Mr. Aspinall now, who has UFC gold around his waist. Yes, it is of the interim variety. But when you consider his, I would say, objectively strong body of work at the heavyweight division, that gold is a little bit heavier than most interim belts.

I'm going to, I'm going to make that suggestion here. Now, I don't want to take a side, but I am a judge. And my first job is to keep order, guys. It is to keep order. It is not necessarily to decide who wins and loses debates. And unfortunately, my best friend, Mr. Heck, to keep order, I have to reward this to Mr. Aspinall's representative because, full disclosure, I have voted for Tom Aspinall as the number one heavyweight.

He is, it is number one on our website. We had the judge on the take the whole time. We have. It's not about that. It's not about that. It's not about that. We have, please. Lvito Corley.

The Boston is overloading now. We have graphics out there. We have, M.A. fighting is on the record as saying Tom Asthma's the greatest heavy in the world. The three first place votes for John Jones have been noted. They are there for the public to see and to make up their own mind on. But if I'm going to keep order in our society, I cannot do a sudden upheaval of the rankings, especially when the justification for them are very, very, very, very, very strong. So it pains me to have to make any sort of decision here.

But for us all, everyone to continue to get along, we have to stick with the rankings. We have to stick with my number one pick as well. This quorum sucks. This court, this court is rigged. One of the world. Thank you again, everyone. The judge is biased.

What? And everyone, you're all in contempt of court. Bang the galvary. Bang the gal. Yes. All right. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right, back.

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From festive and cozy fashion to Lux Beauty and Fragrant Suts, our special selection has something for every style and price point. Visit our Holt's holiday shop and store or online at Holtrenfrew.com. All right, y'all, we are back. Tensions cooled down a little bit. We appreciate Damon Martin for barge it in and joining us in that segment. But one other topic we want to hit today, guys, Alex Pereira, really the main event of this past weekend. It's just such a weird thing, right?

Like, I still don't even know what to say anymore. Two Division champ and two sports, Hall of Famer or a Future Hall of Famer in two sports. He is now also our new number six pound for pound fighter. the world in our new number one light heavyweight and so there are two sides of this discussion i want to hit both sides uh but this one first because i know um damon is no longer with us but this surprised me because the voting for light heavyweight all of it surprised me a little bit you had six first place votes for perera one for bellator champ of dine mcalf from casey which i mean that tracks that's the most casey vote ever that there's no surprise there and then

wouldn't you know it mr i get no respect mr's y'all's rankins are trash jemal Hill gets one vote as well from Damon Martin, who goes Hill Pereira, Pajaska for his top three. So, fellas, I just generally want to get your thoughts on this light, heavyweight picture, what's going on here, where we sort of landed Alex Pereira, number one for most of us, not for Damon, and also top six in the pound for pound. How do you feel about this Alex Pereira place we have put for this gentleman? I don't see how anyone can feel bad about it. so yeah he is number one on our consensus chart it's as i was trying to i had to write quite a bit about pedetta both in the pound for pound rankings update and the sort of shake-up we had

earlier this week um there's just no way to evaluate him properly if we're being honest because no one has done what he's done before it doesn't really work to kind of go like well how does his overall resume compare to this guy and compared to this guy and how does his um because no one has been able to get these massive fights, very, I shouldn't say no one, very few people have been able to these massive fights so early and actually win two UFC titles. Even if you're accounting for whatever, marketing or accounting for, it's feud with Izzy, you know, fueling his rise to the top of 185, it's still, he still has to win those fights. He still has to go in there and get the job done, and some of him he's done it.

So if we're talking about like the last, it does seem unfair in a way, in a way for Padetta to just jump over some, uh, 205ers who are unquestionably more accomplished in the division. Like his resume does not compare at all to, again, someone else, Badim Nemkov, for example, Jan Blakovitz, the man he just beat for Hachka before that loss, had not lost a fight in what, like eight years or something, 10 years or a long time, or the one fight he lost during that time.

He avenged the King Moe loss. His resume is insane, but you have to put put it up of him, obviously. And if you do that, then the rest of the dominoes kind of fall from there. Then you kind of just have to let everyone else fall in the place. Now, again, we do have two other fighters getting first place votes, and I'm not against it. But I think Pereira is such a tidy, logical pick, which is crazy, given how illogical his entire run to the top of the UFC has been. Yeah, I'm definitely mostly with AK. I think I'm all the way there.

I definitely don't have any issue with you doing it. Like, if you're going to put Jamal Hill there, I get it. I mean, in part, because, like, it's not highly dissimilar from the argument we just had about heavyweight, right? Like, Jamal Hill has undoubtedly been working in this division more. Got a couple of quality wins here. And arguably, though I'm not sure that I don't think I would agree, but arguably his win over Glover Tashire is the best kind of of the bunch of the potential guys here. But for me, I think if this were, if Alex Pere had just gotten one shot at Yerey and beaten

yeary. I probably would not have Pereira number one. I wouldn't have Jamal Hill and number one because I totally honestly spite dropped him months back when he was making a fuss about stuff despite like not having totally earned it. But at the same time, I think once you come up and your wins are Jan Blahovic, former champion, top five-ish guy, I don't know where we have him ranked right now. now. And then Yiri Pahashka, the guy who I had number one, I think many.

I'm actually not looking at what our previous rankings, but I think most people had him. He was unanimously number one for us heading into 295. So I think you put those two wins together. I would say those two wins are better than any two wins, Jamal Hill has. And when you look at the rest of the resume there, like, okay, beat Tiago Santos. that's not nothing, but it's not an enormous amount. Same with Jimmy Crute and OSP. These are wins that they're better than nothing,

but I don't think that the totality of his resume doesn't stack up to the two wins from Pereira at this point. Yeah, Perrear is number one. I mean, I honestly don't know what else this man. He's just number one. And that was the whole thing with Jamal Hill. Like him going in there and rolling Glover is a great win. Like it's a great.

right when it was Glover's last fight. It was just a weird situation that put him kind of in that zone. And I go back to what I said, when we're talking about this in the first place. If Jamal Hill versus Glover Tashara was on a title fight, Jamal Hill would be like rank number nine right now. He would not even be in the top five in a lot of people's opinions. The belt helped him in a lot of respects.

And it was a fight he wasn't supposed to get. And had he not, had Magam and Angolaev just won the damn belt against Jan Belhovic, he's probably like number 12 right now. Because I don't even know, he fights Anthony Smith, probably wins that fight,

and then gets hurt in July anyways, and he doesn't fight again. So his most recent win would be Anthony Smith, which isn't going to age all that well, if we're being honest. You mentioned the Tiago Santos fight. Jamal, he was losing that Tiago Santos fight before he finished him.

He lost two of the first three rounds. I'm looking at the cards right now. Two of the judges had Tiago Santos up 29, 28, heading into round four before Jamal Hill got the finish. And Johnny Walker, even with the Glover thing, is probably still his best win overall. And that's what's so frustrating about all of this is that after Jamal won the belt, I could not wait for him to fight again. I have to know how good this guy is. I wanted him in Uri Perashka so badly.

And then he gets hurt. And now we get Alex Pereira. and he expects because he sat on the sideline and has the win over Glover to Shera and because he got hurt that he should automatically be the number one guy. It's just not the way this works. But I have to say, when he is ready to come back,

him versus Alex Pereira, if you have to say, Mike, pick your top five fights you're looking forward to next year, that is on the list. That might even be like number two or three because I just have so many questions about both of these guys and their longevity is at 205 and how far they can go.

So I understand why Jamal go to vote ain't for me, but I mean, there's just a lot to unpack here. Because again, this Alex Pereira guy just continues to break everything that we've ever known and we'll ever know from now on moving forward. So,

it's just crazy, man. It's, it's, it is funny to me that Alex Barre was basically the guy that single handled and destroyed our pound for pound rankings. And I almost wonder if he is now the same guy who's single handedly saved them. Because him doing this sort of makes everything makes sense in a way that it didn't beforehand.

But Jed, I want to go back to you for a second because hearing you talk about Alex over the last three, four days has been interesting to me because it feels like, and tell me if I'm wrong, it feels like you're like very deeply conflicted on what to think about this man at this point and just how to even like him.

And it's so funny to me because you're so, you're so like, you're not a fence sitter, but it seems like you just don't know where you actually stand with this guy at this point. Because I don't. You're right. I want to be planting a flag

and defending it to the death. That's who I am as a person and I can't plant a flag because what do we do with this man? He's made you doubt yourself. What is he? I don't, he might not be good,

but he is a Hall of Famer. I can't reckon, like he is, he's okay, he's clearly good, but like he might not be a great mixed martial artist. And yet he keeps,

speeding people who are very good to mix martial artists. But at the same time I wrote about this this week, like I am an advanced life form, like all of us on this podcast. I have the ability to hold two thoughts in my head at the same time. And many people, maybe even some of them listening to this podcast, don't. And I'm sorry, because this can get very complicated for you. I think that there's a way to both acknowledge that what Pereira is doing is incredible and awesome and like these you can't take these ones away from them they're dope while also

admitting that this is never going to happen again like this is such an utterly unique set of circumstances the way that he came into the UFC and didn't even sort of have to prove himself like everybody else in the history of this sport even Connor to some extent had to prove himself he had to fight chadmendes on short notice to at least like check the bar box of here's a guy that people broadly think is a bad stylistic matchup for you. Check the box. I can beat him. Prayer didn't because the UFC wanted to get him to a fight with Izzy.

Everyone knew it was super transparent. And they did. And then he converted it. And we were like, I don't know what to do with him. And then he loses the rematch and we're like, okay, maybe this will settle itself out. Maybe now he'll have to fight some other middleweights. Maybe he'll have to just fight some other people because we know this dude's one the best kickboxers of, I don't know, the last 25 years or whatever. If he's in a fight that is

predominantly kicking and punching, he's going to do well as what he does. But he hasn't been in the other part of MMA that much. And we saw Izzy take him down and control him on the ground. And is he some ADCC All-Star, you know, like we don't know. And then instead he just goes up to heavyweight and Jan Blahovich. Jan Blahovic is an extremely well-round, extremely good fight. And we saw him take down and control, is he by, I mean, frankly, just by being way bigger than the homie. Like, he was just like, I'm way bigger than you. I'm going to sit on you. Alaspera is enormous, so he couldn't be way bigger and sit on him.

And he did for parts of it. And that's why that fight was close. But we don't look at Jan Belhovic as this world-class grappler. And that's what his game is. He is not Glover-Teshirea. You know, like his game is the Polish power. And then he gets Yeri, who has completed, like, one-take- down in his entire career or something

prior to this fight. He has had a string of... Who also took him down. Heary also takes... Who took him down and controlled him for the whole of that first round basically or the back half of the whole first round. And I don't

know because we simply haven't seen it. It is the same way in the heavyweight with guys like Pavvich and Aspinall who we can only have such an idea about their games because they're fighting, they're not going to do it down in two minutes. You can't glean a lot from that. With Alex Pereira, I don't know.

Like, you could convince me with little effort that he could fight Nikita Krilov tomorrow and Krilov can simply take him down and beat the hell out of him on the floor because Alex Pereer has been taken down by all of the people who have tried to take him down. Everyone who has attempted to take him down has succeeded. And so if he fought somebody like that

or if he did that at middleweight and fought like Marvin Vittori, it wouldn't shock me if Marvin Vittori could beat him. Like there are a whole number of folks that I could see beating them. And also, maybe it just doesn't matter because he has such a superior skill set

and he is able to manufacture the ways to get that going and that's where it goes. So it's impossible for me to know what he is in part because it's a really small sample size and all the samples are of the same thing. But I don't even want to know. It takes away the fun. Like I don't want him to go fight a wrestler now.

What's the fun in that? Just keep being this weird. anomaly and breaking my brain because it's delightful as as Poetan is a hall of favor now Jed real quick were you were you close at all to ranking and Goliath ahead of him was there any thought to that I I really debated pulling the trigger on it it is I spent a lot of time so when you say close yes because for me I have Anklive number two and I defaulted to beating Erie is a great win and I want to give that credit for what it is.

Like it's a terrific win. Even if the way it happened is like the way everyone knew it could happen if Yeri did something dumb and he kind of got a little dumb in there, it's still a great win you can't take the way I wanted to credit that. But like, I assume I'm not even assuming.

I would be extremely confident in picking Magoankele. I have to beat Alex Pereira in a fist fight. I wouldn't bet my whole life on it because Pereira keeps doing this sort of thing. but like looking at it right now, I would pick ankle. I have to beat him. I'd pick Nimcov to beat Pereira in a straight-up fight.

I wouldn't pick Jamal Hill, but I wouldn't be shocked because Jamal Hill is kind of similarly. I don't really know what to make of him. He just knocks dudes out, except for the one time that Paul Craig of all people, T-K-Oed him. No, broke his arm. Like brutally broke his arm.

Was it an arm break? Oh, yeah. I was there for that. It was a verbal, it was a, I think it was like a verbal stoppage. as he broke his arm. Yeah, it was a referee scene like,

oh, you just broke this guy's arm and this fight's over. I have to go rewatch that fight so I don't remember it for shit. It was nerily. It was not early. And Jamal Hill did not look like the number one light heavy in the world.

I'll tell you in that fight. Yeah, it was not long ago. It was not long ago. You could pick like a good number of light heavy weights and a good number of middle weights. I'd be like, that probably beat him. But also at the same time, like he's just kind of spiked everything perfectly.

And so, I mean, shit, is he beat him? Like, he knocked him stone cold at the start of this year. If they fought again, probably would pick, is he in that? Like, maybe, maybe I wouldn't. Like, I don't know. So it's hard to know what to make of him. And for the rest of these things, like,

it is. And so I wanted to put enclave, because he is the guy that I believe is the best light heavyweight on Earth at this moment in time. But his last, I mean, two years. He's like the weirdest dude. I don't know what the hell's going on. He had to fight Eun Kutalaba twice and the Yon split draw that probably

should have win, but whatever. And then the Johnny Walker, like, I couldn't. I couldn't, if he had beaten Johnny Walker, he would be number one. But because of how that went down, I couldn't take that away from Alex Brer. Could have arguably been a loss for him, too, if they de-ked. I mean, yeah, he probably should have actually been DQed. But, you know, so that's a great point. Let me, let me ask you guys this real quick.

Because, like, Jamal Hill is going to be super fascinating heading into 2024. And the way he has sort of presented himself and the way he talks and the way he talks and the way he reacted to Pereira's win. We asked about which one of the six title competitors in the first quarter of 2024, like who has the most to lose here? And you can make the argument for Volcanowski. You can make the argument for Sean O'Malley.

But now I want to add Jamal Hill into this question because I feel like it's, I feel like if he loses the belt, like if he goes and fights Alex Pereira and gets dusted, I mean, I think he loses like everything. Like honestly, I don't think he gets back to a title. fight. Like, I think it all goes away. So do you feel like there's so much riding on Jamal Hill's next fight, no matter how it plays out? Like, I feel like he's got everything to lose here. Like,

this is his, he is 2024 is going to be super interesting to me. I think, I think unquestionably, right? Like, we were talking in the previous segment about paper belts and what sort of belts meant more than others. Like, I mean, no, I'm not trying to hang on it, but like that light, heavyweight belt he won was the most papery of belts, right? It's the second most paper belt that's ever been put in this organization. He was objectively like what, the third or fourth option to even fight for that belt. Like he was, he was like a, he was like number nine in the UFC's rankings. It was barely a top 10 fighter.

It was a booking out of spite and convenience because the UFC literally had nobody else. And Dana White was mad that a fight was not as not more fun than he thought it would be, even though. Here's the weird thing about that. He was just mad that it was a draw because the fight is actually fun to watch. It is dramatic. It's a good fight. He is just mad that the three, two of the judges disagreed and it was a split draw.

It's the weirdest shit. And so you're 100% right, Mike, because if there's a very real world where Jamal Hill comes in a 2024 off of a gnarly injury, off of one of the worst injuries an athlete could suffer that is recoverable from. and he comes in maybe not all the way there and gets dusted and like at that point what are we doing right everybody's gonna just look back on it yeah yeah I guess he wasn't really the champ to begin with he didn't really ever

really win it in a way that was like legitimate right like this is all gonna I think you're right when you say this is gonna all go away if that happens like that's very possible but guys he's he's coming for Tom Haspinall so you know watch out is that a thing Is that a thing that was said?

That was a thing that was said. Well, that's not work out very well. Hey, Leon Edwards is apparently coming for Drigis duplacy and. Again, we're not going to do this. To AK's previous point, I am never wrong. I am only early. Y'all are all about to come on the Leon's boring and screw him. No one cares if he gets a title fight.

Mike, let me ask you. Because I think just the way this division is shaped right now, I have no actual idea. where the fuck it's heading. What is the next year of light, heavyweight look like? Because right now, man, Alps-Parear is 36 years old. You cannot sit this man. He is riding insane momentum, more momentum than has ever ridden in his entire combat sports

career. He is red-hot. The UFC has something here. It would be promotional malpractice. If you sit this man and wait for Jamal Hills who recover from a torn Achilles that might keep amount to what, like August, July at the earliest, right? Like this is a bad, bad injury that takes up more than a year for like a lot of high-level professional athletes.

Kobe Bryant did not recover from this injury in a year. Like this thing takes a while. If the UFC sits this division on the shelf when it finally makes some semblance of sense just to wait for this fight that is already just a weird circumstance of inner of itself, I have no idea what we're doing. What the fuck does the next year look like? Because if that's the answer, like this is just all very dumb. So here's what's going to happen.

Okay? There's two options. And I can assure you that Magamenekelaif and Johnny Walker, they're not any of the options. They're not any of the options. Jamal Hill, not an option here because he's hurt. Option number one is the callout from Alex Pereira. I thought this was, I thought this was brilliant at the time. And the more time that goes by, I think it's a masterful.

full call-out by Alex Pereira to call it Israel to Sanya. Because that fight could headline UFC 300 if they don't do Connor Chandler. The trilogy fight for the light heavyweight title, like there is no other fight outside of Connor and Chandler or Steepa and John that you can make that I think would be a bigger fight than that one. So I think this is brilliant and I think it's possible. What is it my first choice for a fight as a fight fan I want to see? No, but this is a fight the UFC could absolutely make.

And if Izzy is on board, they are going to make this fight. It is going to happen. And as egregious as that may sound to some of you, option two is ten times more egregious, but also likely. They're not going to bench Alex Pereira. They're going to make him defend the late heavyweight title. And who is he going to defend the light heavyweight title against

if it's not Israel Adisania or Magabed Akalaya or Johnny Walker? It's going to be Anthony Smith because there's some beef there. And they're just going to keep this man busy by putting him into a fight with a rival and just letting him ice the dude, and then he's going to go and fight in a fight that would actually seem bigger, even though this makes absolutely no sense from a promotional or meritocratic perspective.

So that's what's going to happen. I would say by April or May, maybe even sooner, Alex Pereira will fight either Israel-Ata Sanya or if that fight doesn't happen, they're going to try to make this Anthony Smith fight happen, and it is silly gooseery to the nines, but probably what's going to happen.

That's going to hurt me so bad. I know. I'm sorry to do this, but. I know. So here's the thing. I actually think Mike's totally right. I don't think it'll be, is he,

Izzy is weirdly not interested in this? And I don't understand this. I don't think it's weird. I think it's super weird. I don't think he just got, he just got dummied by a dude, everyone like mistakes for a gas station attendant to lose his belt. He is now being gifted a title shot up a weight class to do a thing he failed at

previously by beating a guy. guy he just knocked out earlier this year. Not being interested in that is incredibly shocking to me. But we saw him earlier this year after that knockout. He, I do not think he is an ounce of him that wants to do this Alex thing anymore. I think he is over it. I think this is like he is being offered a gift and not taking this is a thing that he will regret for the rest of his life, assuming he doesn't do it.

Because it's a real chance to, you know, win a second belt and everyone wants to do that. But I agree. It seems like he doesn't want to do it. it and that's very odd to me and anthony smith makes a lot of sense you see's going to go back to brazil they don't have a lot of people to do that with and so letting perrero do that makes a ton of sense it's great it's absolutely great if prayer wins this is why this is a bad matchmaking though because there is a clear outcome that's good versus one that's bad if prayer wins it's a great outcome you got to keep busy maybe we got to learn something anthony smith can grapple we can see a little

of that and it still sets up the Jamal Hill thing. If he loses, dude, Anthony Smith is like that best, the eighth best light heavy weight in the world and everyone knows it. Like we are all aware of it. It's such a weird ass thing. It's like it's like Michael Bisping winning the middleweight belt despite being like the 10th best middleweight in the world. Or is it like Jamal Hill winning?

Only people love Michael. Anthony Smith was booked against Jamal Hill. This is the exact same setup that when you're, that all happened. That is, that would be basically identical to what we just encountered. Yeah. The title isn't vacant. The title isn't vacant. That's one difference.

It would. Yeah. Exactly. This is, it's a little bit different in that. This really is Michael Bisp like Anthony Smith's getting the, we like you, you work for us. You're a fan.

The fan seemed like you. Let's give you this opportunity. And then if you Michael Bisping's way to a belt, it won't even have the same like Michael Bisping feel good probably to it. It'll just be like, dude, burn this division to the ground. what the hell are we doing at this point? So I hope it doesn't happen. I think it's going to happen.

Whereas instead, like, look, I'm the biggest Magermanicholai fan. You know this. I think he's the guy who should fight because I think he's the best dude. I'm not pushing for him to get this title shot. Probably doesn't deserve it. Put Johnny Walker in there.

He's on a good win, like on a good streak of wins. That's what I'm saying. It'll be fun as hell. Like, just do the, if you're going to do, if you can't do the meritocratic thing, because I don't honestly even know what that is at this point. Like, I truly, I don't know who deserves to fight for the belt in this weight class.

But if you can't do that, do the fun thing. Johnny Walker is the fun thing. I mean, Nikita Krilov would also be the fun thing for me, but I think broadly speaking, more people would enjoy the Johnny Walker fight. Do that. That'd be dope. I like the message. Oh, go ahead.

I was going back with Erie. I like the message that the Walker pick would send Ankalaya. It's like, hey, don't throw illegal needs. Don't throw a legally. Sorry, you're lost the one that got wrong. Johnny's the one that got wronged in that second story. It says no cut. Yeah.

If you're the matchmakers, like, listen, I know it says no contest, but we think you should have been decued. I love you. I love you're spouting my words. Yeah. One man did something wrong in that fight. One man didn't. And they both walk away the same.

It's not right. Yeah, Johnny Walker would be great. I think Anthony Smith is really likely. I think, honestly, the actual thing that will happen is they'll run it back with Yeri. They love to do this. There's nobody that makes. that makes them more.

Don't do that. The laziest option. You know I don't want to do that. I hate immediate rematches. But what else are they going to do? I hope that doesn't happen, but you're right, it is very possible. I want to say one thing about the Izzy Adesnia, not. It is weird.

Jet is right. But I also think it's weirdly healthy. And I say this as someone who since Prera, after he beat Jan, I'm like, oh, if he wins the title, he should totally try and get that Izzy Adisina MMA trilogy bout. I'm all for it. I love to call it. as well. I think it makes a lot of sense for him. I just think it's as weird as he is being,

I also think it's healthy for him. If he's being serious about saying he wants to take a break, maybe he was joking about taking a break till 2027, but I do think he needs a break. We said this going, I think, into the Strickland fight, we're all like, Izzy has to be burnt out a little bit. He's just been so active, plus involved in other, you know, other ventures. He's just been under the microscope for the last four years nonstop. And as great as he is with handling that stuff, everyone has their limits. So for him to be able to resist this very cherry opportunity to get, you know, do that trilogy with Padreta

and have a very good chance of finally becoming two-division champion, that actually tells me he's serious. He is serious about taking a break. Because if you're just taking a break and then you jump at the first thing that, like the first great opportunity that comes to you, you're not really taking a break then, are you, right? You're just, essentially, you're just doing it for leverage.

So I very mildly applaud Izzy, if he is, if this is a very realistic option and he's passing up because he does just need to is it the smart thing to do for his career i don't think so at all is it the better thing for his overall quality of life it might be it honestly might be so that's fair yeah that's hard to i mean he'll never get another chance to fight it unless he unless he just leaves at 185 and bulks up this he will never get another shot at 205 unless he just straight leaves middle right so this is it yeah this is it but it's easy for it's easy for it's easy for for Friday to say they're taking a break and they're going to pass up on stuff. But right now,

we are possibly seeing a guy do it. And that's, that to me is impressive in a way. Weird. Yes, Jed. Weird, but impressive in a way. That is super fair, though. I mean, this, we're talking about someone who is the most active UFC champion we've had over the last couple years. Like, if anybody has a reason to be burned out, it's that guy. Two last quick things and then we can get out of here. Just one word answers, really, on this, on this one. Because, like, we've, we've spent this whole past hour and 15 minutes talking about two divisions that are both in very similarly odd places. Who's going to fight first? Tom Aspinall or Alex Pereira?

Just one word answer. Who, Jed? Pereira. Mike's hard on Pereira. What do you think? And I'm trying to use not one word. I'm trying to use one word. I'm having to work this through in my head.

Aspinall. I'll go Aspinall. Wow. Okay. A.K. Ferreira. I think it's Alex, too. I hope it's Alex.

Because otherwise, what do we? I don't want to get into Tom defending the belt situation because that to me is dumb too, but all of this is just very weird. These two divisions. If they don't go to London, they're going to wait until they go to London. But they're going to wait until they go to London

if Tom's going to end up defending. I believe honestly the UFC, after hearing from everybody, may just say, look, man, we'll give you five. John, I know you want to fight steepa. We'll give you $8 million more to fight Tom, plus everything else you were going to get.

Like, I think they're going to try to make that fight. But if John is just truly not interested in it, then if the UFC goes to London, Tom and they do a pay-per-view, which they will do a pay-per-view if they go to London. Tom has to be in the main event. So, Tom and Leon have to both fight on the card. And I don't think it's going to happen to like May. Well, that's what I think Tom. They've been going to London in March like the last two years or whatever. I think they're just going to do it again this year. But it's tough, unless they do it as a fight night, unless it's a fight night, because that would be UFC 300.

If Tom Aspinel has to defend it in April, isn't it? if they do London it won't be March it will be after that if Tom Aspinall has to defend that interim belt what the fuck do championships even mean at this point even more because the belt John Jones has was already super bizarre and kind of weird anyway and kind of Fugasey anyway and at this point if he's not the one actually defending against the challengers why are we calling him the champion

that is like a surprising amount of of spirit and they're like yeah No, the actual heavyweight title is the one Tom Aspinall has. John Jones has not avid. John Jones had it, and then he got hurt, and now is explicitly going to fight Steve Amichich, and is no longer relevant to the rest of the heavyweight conversation. No, don't worry.

Which is that whole court case about this. You guys found the right answer in there. You guys found the right answer in there somewhere. If not in London, it'd be a great fight at U.S. 300, where Tom Aspinall to do the unification bet with John Jones, after Joe... It'll never happen, John's scared. No, after he heals up and stops. being afraid then oh you got a k yeah great yeah he is scared but hopefully hopefully as he heals his

shoulder bone oh no collarbone whatever shoulder back pectoral as he heals his pictorial injury and also heals his cahones uh he will have the uh testicular fortitude finally to step in there with a real heavy finally because guys i'm i'm i'm not afraid to say it i mean john's afraid i'm not afraid to say this I think his legacy depends on fighting Tom Aspinall. I don't think his legacy will stand if he doesn't fight. We're going to call his entire legacy is called into question if he continues to refuse to fight Tom Aspinall. Is he even a top five pound for pound all-time fighter if he doesn't fight Tom Aspinall? This is a question.

I can't have scared people in my top five. I can't have scared money. I have to say this because it just hit my head and Jed is going to lose his mind. what I think is going to happen, Jed. No, no. I know what you're about to say no. No, don't do it. You don't know what I'm going to say.

What they're going to do is Tom Asmel is going to fight Cyril Gahn. Like that's the fight they're going to make. What if Cyril Ghan wins the interim title? And then his next fight is against John Jones for the undisputed title. John says yes to Cyril Gond, but doesn't fight Tom and then becomes the undisputed champion against the same man twice. How will you feel about that? I literally, when we were doing the thing. I almost was like, and then if Cyril, if they do fight and Cyril beats him, I don't,

I don't even know who to rank is the top of everywhere. I might just give up. Might just give up. Oh, my God. Oh, what a. Oh, this is so strange. Don't be scared, homie. Oh, this is so, so strange.

Also, I do want to note, because I know that at various points in this show, there is at least three people at home who are sitting there listening, going insane, listening to Jed Michoud just, and now Alexander K. just completely disparaged John Jones. I need to note that if you hadn't listened to our post show, Jed came up with a tremendous idea of we're all going to kind of like unanimously shame John Jones. We're going to gaslight this man into taking this fight, baby.

Let's go! Because John Jones is a very sensitive guy. This is maybe the one strategy that will actually lead to this fight happening is if we all collectively tell him he's not going to do it. We all have to do it. There can't be people in his corner supporting him. We all have to get this message out there that we, we see, we see the truth

for what it is. He was afraid to fight Francis. That's why it took him three years to come up. And now he's afraid to fight Tom Aspinall and he's, he's going to fight Steepa, an old geriatric fireman. Did you see Steepa at 2.95 limping around? Okay. He can barely walk. Get the man. He was taking it easy.

Hit the music. Hold on. Back to John Jones. I look at John Jones. Let me just say, all you internet trolls out there who love to go at fighters and tell them how much they suck and how scared they are and how they'll never fight this guy and never do this. This is your moment. Okay? I thought you people had no use in society. I was wrong. This is your moment. Get into

John Jones's acts and chess relentlessly barrage this man cyber bully this man into taking this fight with Tom Asmanall. I will look the other way. I mean, you know, be respectful about it. Let's not take shots. Yeah, that's going to happen. Not necessary shots. Let's be respectful. No. But this is your moment, troll army. Troll army, be respectful because it hurts so much worse when you're respectful. People can dismiss you when you're like,

oh, you freaking see, you won't fight him. But if you're like, John, you're a grave fighter, but the game's just passed you by. This new gen,

this new breed's too good for you. And you see it. That's why you don't want to fight Tom. You know he's too good for you. And that's okay. Go off into the sunset. Five-year-old fireman. You don't want this smoke.

Not from Tommy Aspinall. But Tom did exactly what you needed to do to somewhat change the narrative. Because a lot of people, people didn't think this was even possible that someone coming out of this fight could get John to be like, okay, maybe I see some dollars here. But Tom did it. Like Tom freaking did it. And now no one cares. Like nobody cares about steep a fight at all. Very few cared about heading in, but the UFC did a good job of like promoting it. And it was like, okay, look, we're going to get

a ton of views and a ton of clicks, casual audience, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But for once, the hardcores are outweighing the casual views in so many respects. Like, Nobody wants to see John fight Steepa. Nobody. The announcement will go over like flatul inch in an empty church hall. Like just nothing. But what they, if they just say, guess what, mofos, we're doing John Jones versus Tom Aspinall. Instead, main event, international fight week, people are going to dance.

They're going to sing. We're going to do a live reaction show dancing and singing to this news because it'll be incredible. And Jed gets to take. It won't happen, though. John too scurred. How about you? Yeah, well, knocking on wood. In the immortal words of the Diaz, brethren, don't be scared, homie.

Let's leave it on that. We'll leave it on that. Normally we close out by pouring one out, but hey, there are nothing to pour out over. This is this episode this month. Clean slate. No one leaves. No one enters. That's how we do.

And so that wraps up today's ranking show. We appreciate you guys, as always, for joining us. This one was a lot of fun. It got a little heated at various points, but I don't know. I enjoyed it. Maybe that power went a little bit too much to A.K.'s head, but we'll have to speak about it words.

But we love you guys. Keep it locked to the M.M.A. fighting podcast network. We've got the last Bellator show potentially ever this week. Belator 301. Also, Brendan Allen. And who's Brennan Allen fighting? I already forgot. Somebody tell me.

Paul Craig. How dare you for the middleweighty, middleweight title. I'm sorry. The man who has a dominant win over some people's number one light heavyweight in the whole wide world. I love it. That man is Jedman Shoe. That man is Mike Heck for David Martin who also joined us. And, of course, my co-captain, Al-Zanah, I'm Sean O'Shton.

I love you guys. See you next time. Don't be scared, John. Don't be scared. With Amex Platinum, $400 in annual credits for travel and dining means you not only satisfy your travel bug, but your taste buds too. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Conditions apply.

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