MMA Fighting - Trocação Franca | Rickson Gracie Como Você Nunca Viu

Episode Date: December 29, 2021

Nada melhor que terminar 2021 com uma entrevista histórica, e para isso o Trocação Franca convidou a lenda Rickson Gracie. Um dos maiores nomes da história das lutas, Rickson abriu o jogo sobre tudo: como a “poligamia” deu origem ao clã Gracie e sua relação com a babá Isabel, sua mãe de sangue, sobre as tais 400 lutas de invencibilidade, qual lutador ficou entalado por nunca ter enfrentado, como um jovem Rickson se sairia no MMA atual, os erros e acertos do filho Kron Gracie no UFC, e muito mais. O melhor do MMA brasileiro no Trocação Franca, toda quarta-feira, com o jornalista Guilherme Cruz e convidados. There's nothing better than ending 2021 on a high note — and that’s why Trocação Franca welcomes Rickson Gracie for a historic interview. One of the greatest names in martial arts history, the legendary fighter opens up about everything: How infidelity helped create the Gracie clan and his relationship with his real mother, a nanny called Isabel, the controversial 400-0 record, which fighter got stuck in his throat for never being able to face him in a ring, how would a young Rickson do in modern MMA, Kron Gracie’s UFC career, and more. Listen to Trocação Franca with Guilherme Cruz every Wednesday to hear from the biggest names on the hottest topics in the Brazilian combat sports world. Follow Guilherme Cruz @Guicruzzz Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Book on emirates.ca. Today. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Senoras and Seniors, in command of the podcast, Trocaation Franca. And representing the M.M.A. Fighting in Brazil, Guillermo Cruz. Hello, lo, am Igo, friend of Lutta,

well, the 17th episode of the podcast, Trocaption Franca, a sua case of MMA in this immense podosphere. I'm going to crime, Chris, correspondent of the site American Ammifair in Brazil, and I'm back in this quarter day in a co-celling

in a year to end the best of the way of the thing that's one of the main of the story of sports

that recently decided transform your your life in the work respire a business a business at Amazon in

Brazil and best cellar also in New York Times it's a it's a good good for you guys

it's good good here this great in California coming the winter the freez in but the opposite is

the opposite is right to Here, here is very hot. I'm going to get a little bit of a bit of envy of you with this free. Talking about about the book, that's a new thing, this year,

you launched a biography, how is it a process to transform it in a book a story so rich as your. Look, the idea to do you have maturating

in some time in my head. I have a friend my who is professor of art of the war in Columbia University,

the name of Peter Maguire, and was my friend who helped me to write to this book.

And this idea we had been talking a much time, but never had been

really posted a front. With this pandemic, you know, the proposal that I

received of a editor was really irrecusable and then this project took

life. And then we put my life in the paper there were a thing

intense, that I hope that's inspirational for many people. It's a project that you had to launch and the pandemic, everyone had to be in front of house, it, and it was accelerating this process? Or was the contrary, the question

financial during the pandemic, it, it's a problem. The idea of that this book happened, for cause of the pandemic, is a very because if not had this pandemic, I would continue with seminars and the

life, what will. And this book would be, like, adiated. But with a pandemic, with the difficulty to work, with more time in house, and the necessity

to make money, the thing movemented and happened. I read the preface of your book, written by Joseph Padilla, and he compared to Pelé in the preface. You concorded with this comparison, or you would make a parallel with

some other sportist, with some other great name of the story? Look, it's very difficult, if I have in my good sense of the head, to concordar with a comparison with a man like Pelle, who is a god in sport. I, with a little comparison, I think I did much by Jujitz, also, and I was invicto in my career. Or so, I have some points that are similar to Pellé of capacity

in the sport, but he is an idol, is my idol, idol, also, I don't want to me compare to people, I just want

to do the best of the world of jiu-jitsu, the people can say that I'm, I'm so the person in

football, you know, the person in the world of the world of Jvits is you compare to you, and the question to your biography,

that the title of her push to the right to the restiration, that is a thing, even who is

fan of Jiu-Gi who is fan of art suave, of arts martial, but just trombed with a video classical your in the prairie,

making the respiration and which is a thing, I would ador would be to do, but I'd know that in this life I never can't do that. Or then,

or then, you trombed with you, seeing the movie of the Incrieve 2008, the film of Edward Northon.

I imagine there has been a good, especially talking of the film, to have been been presented to a universe of

people who who don't accompany the Juxes, that not accompany art massage in the world of the cinema, maybe a public that maybe never could never know if you're not

not being in this life? With, with certainty, the idea of this book is exactly to bring to the people a, a question more profound of what is being

an athlete of a point, you know, what is to have the responsibility to win the pressure? And in this process of evolution, in my sport,

in those my responsibilities, in the power of my legada, the responsibility to represent a family, this all was adding to my life a pressure very great that not just the practice in the tatami that will make me feel comfortable,

there's a practice that I have to have to be a spiritual, there's a practical, a practical, emotional, of control. So, all this part that I not could explain

what I was invisible, I understood with my great mentor, Orlando Coney. And the inspiration was practically what created a unification between my control emotional, the part of anxiety,

of nervous, of claustrophobia, of panic, of fear, of mead, combining with the part spiritual, of faith, of hope, to think you

can't have control, and with the part technical, that the respiration also also helps in the part cardiovascular of you maintain in a peak performance for more time through a hyperventilation.

So, I always went, I always went great, and I represented the family in Jiu-Jit, always competed since a little bit. But, before I started to understand my respiration as a firmament

not just physical, but also mental and spiritual, I really took into I took into my body as a whole and me felt much more more capacited

to understand and to find out of my challenges. One thing you pointed, that you always was an athlete, it's always

grace, not being grace is a thing along the body, but you know, having a

life public, because your father, the people who were the people who were the people who were

the people, how it was how it was going to do you in day-a-day, in your youthhood.

Obviously, there had a positive, uh, of you know, of your young in New New New York,

was a famous, had the bad, but had a lot too, but had a lot of a celebrity, you know,

when you're a person, that's a person, you come back to be a little grace, a future champion,

the people the people, you're, they're, they're, They're with a carine, an admiration, and a culture that

makes with you feel differentiated, not just by the fact of you be a grace, but also for coming different in a diet a different and have practices in a tatami, to fight, since a little bit more a thing, or so, you're a person different.

In this crescent, in this process, you come to understand that for you be the grace admirable, you have to be in the sport, you have to go to get to compete, you have to have have to have results in competition. And it's always

a motive of enthusiasm, and I always was very competitive, I always liked much of the ambient competitive of sport. And it's always encashed very with my personality. So, it was

very natural for me, me to be a paxioner by the Jiu-Gitzo and me to turn a representant of the art. You've just felt a want to be anonym, of

this, this, this, this, this piece in of you, because you not just the Rixson, you're a representant of a thing more, no, look, the Anonimato,

he comes with a certain mediocrity, no, the more important you're in terms of results, in terms of

expectations, more you want to show this result, more you really, it really to be comfortable

in that the state of superiority. So, I always me comfortable being a I always had the pressure that I received a pressure

to represent and to have the result that was important for me. But this pressure also, it also, for the others, for the other, for the adversaries, and for the people, that's a different, that is a figure of Elio,

that there is a woman, that is a good, and tr-a-tran. Or, or something, I had to the same form that I had to me to try especially,

the other people were differentiated, so it wasn't the same thing for a girl of 12, 13 years to to fight with some other competitor, or then, to look with me. So there was a pressure for the other side, I also used, so for the both, for the bad, and for the mal.

That's right. This is the last of a family, to form a clan, was one of the things most interesting of your biography, that I, I, that, I, I, I, I, I recommend too. And the passage that most

me ch who's really when you know what you talk the story about the decision of the L.

and the kind of even the wife of her mother, that's the never you never really,

but in the book you say it's about her about it about it not have been not been

not been to have to get generated how it how it was to you

to this form this part so intimate of your story of the story of your family? I think it's a

fact that has to be a matter in a certain point, I, for me, when I was when I was born, I didn't know the reality.

I always see my mom Margarida as my mom completely. I never, I don't me see, of

another form. And until the 16 years, I'd think it fiament, like, then I

started to join the dots and I made to make the things would be more sense

more more I understand that my very mother of the same was a babes that my

father had during much time and with the concordance of my mother, they were

a scheme of three children, that in certity of the birth, documentation,

school, all, my life all, I always was a daughter of Donna

Margarida Grace. And in the very I surprised that not

the fact. But this is part of a of an of an idea of my

my child and my father they had they had the intention of a clan

a clan of the clan of lot of so they not could be limited to really

a relationship and have one a few or two or two and the

life their being one with two two three so they

they're they're many my my two Charles casos

six And my father, he's a one way, but there secretly two, two women that did their

children with him, and that was the thing really was made with a family, and this part of who was the man, who was

the father, that part not important the union of the family and the representativity that we had, and the

love that we had as as a the people. So, I think that supered

all this problems, Any disentrediment that could happen the love, the legado, the representativity, the capacity to be to integrate with Jujit, I think it did this all

to be minor than the the Plan Grace. How is a family so great, you said a quantity of a quantity of children with your father, that's how a family so great can't guard a secret of this for so long time?

You have to ask you who did the secret. I'm really... I'm a victim of the product. You You told in the book that you So know

the six his six other brothers in in the adolescence and that it's you didn't

by the relation with the your mother, that you got felt

for her when you when you became that you did you did you how it

how it how you did you the idea the idea did you

did the relationship with you did yeah because until

a point where the was a secret was a thing that was assumed by my mom and by my father, as a thing accorded between the two,

the my mom could over all the problems that she could have like, of love, of insecurity, because it was an accord.

There was an accord in the first three children, in the case of Roryon, of Helson, and my, when I was

with 12 years of age, my father, said, my son, I'd like to have to have himons? I said,

yeah, yes, Yes, yes, but the question more exquisite, that in this time, I actually, I found a carafil of my mom. Then he said,

we went to a car, we went a walk, like we, we came a house in Flamengo, when we came to BotaFogo, we entered in an apartment,

and we subed to the sixth and opened a door, and then appeared a a lady, and the repent, the headcions

appeared like, were four, in this era, were the Roker, the Royler, the Roy, and the Herrick,

the Riss and the Robin still not have been Naced. Anyway, I'm confronted with the children and said, they said, are all those your brothers. Or so,

for me, it was a surprise that I could say that was a greatable. But about the point of view of his relationship

with my mom, who surprised with these new four children, that they were really

traumatic, because my mom had not had concorded or accorded, she, she never never knew

about this story. When she sobe, she was disappointed, and I started to see a side of, not of disrespect, but of a certain fault of love, a fault

of, a of, of, of, of, of, that, I,

I don't want a manorado that was, that, that was, that was a relationship with me,

not know what I do, not, to do the, with my, with the, with the , with my,

, with the, So I thought that that was above what I would have to be in my relationship. And it was a

reference to my future, and it was a understanding of that I saw that my mom, even though she had done everything, she went

to a depression of her, the, the of her the trestice of her to not have been,

to get to a point of satisfaction, she felt that she, she, she, She was, and she was, and I was

and was there was, and I felt during the envelecement of her, a certain, a a fault of, of, a legia. And this, I thought, thinking this, and I said, not that I want to my life,

much, I admire my father. I admire my father as an example, as a general, as a guy with super, with super advantages for one side, in the relationship, I felt it a little. It was a little.

He was a guy more very, in the time of his, a woman and a kidda, the kidd, the woman who'd the woman, don't do the palpit,

he's more, he's a few years if he's lived, so, he didn't not, it's not in

my generation, and the of there, today. So, I see that, in a modernity, the,

Grace, he would have had to have a certain, a development more evolved in this sense of relation, of partnership, that no

had been, and that I felt like was a fault for my future, and then I did my muddances and my adjustments. I don't know. I can't even imagine the BACC, that might have been this experience, even more in the adolescence, when you don't have a total understanding,

it's even admirable the form that you did with this situation. It's because, as when you are a child, with 12, 3,000, you don't understand much of the life, but when you see the mother, without

had no reason, and crying in a can't you say, you're saying, oh, no, my my son, try to you're trying to

understand to understand that there there are things between the phrases, between the lines that

not are being written or most there's an effect emotional. Why is

my mom is chatea and you and you start a thing that is a under the

tapette, you know, and then you have to take to take the your attitudes

to you feel comfortable with what what's happening. You, you and your two the two

of the first women, have to have a kind of with this about the they've got

wanted to to get with to discover this story? No, that was after that was she was

being the family, being in house, visit, we've we've always a

different from a baby different that in a mother number two, an person that we'd talk with a carino, but she never liked to open this fact,

she never opened what was our mother, we never conversed about this. The only time I tried to talk about this issue with she said that

this point, this was just had a casas, it had been back 2006, 2008, and she she said that

nobody in the family of her still had she made of this, she made with this this desire of her, I didn't

force a bar, now, getting, as a new figure. So I said, well, if you want to be able to stay so I'm a bit discomfortable in the sense of opening and me deception with any attitude of her. So I, I, I accepted that was a distance

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Canada Life. Insurance, investments, advice. Get no frills delivered. Shop the same in-store prices online and enjoy unlimited delivery with PC Express Pass. Get your first year for 250 a month. Learn more at PCexpress.ca. I'm talking a little bit of LUTA now, I'm a minute, I'm a minute, and every year, and every year, and every time I said to them, that I'd interviewer all along these

years' years'all, they always reacted to a form different, like the name Hickson has a hour different, that no other Grette's carry. At least in all those interactions that I've had with them, what you think you what does that cause this? What's the what the temper is different that makes the Rixon be a grace differentiation in the vision, especially

of the Americans? I mean, I got in a... As soon that I got my My Fache-Pretta with 18 years, I made in a position of represent the Jiu-Gitzo. In a form very abrangent

because there no, there was a regra, no, there category of There was a limit of time, no, there was a style of a lot, or so it was a

thing, it was a very, very abrangent, in the sense of any any time, no, no, there's time, no, or so this unpredictable,

it makes in a situation very, very, how I'm going to say, vulnerable? Not very vulnerable, but it's a

situation for an imprevisibility that you don't have, no, no, you know, you can't, do, make a planeagement, to do a strategy

based in sport, or regras, or time, the time of training. It's a thing very impervisible. And I think that the people always have this point in me, you know, because not only in the

life atletic, but also if I had to do a, a big, a big, a, It was at any time, not had a time, not had a

not a composition sportive, it was a more of emotion, of a ra-a-a-a-a-resteak, and respect. And this, the people always understood that with me was like, a thing,

of a sport, of name, of celebrity, of event, and it was a response immediate to the legate the family,

the responsibility. So, it was for who I was who I was the fight would be to happen so this this side

kind of of samurai this side of me of we're like so representant I'm

I'm with all my my own my I don't I was I was

I was there trying to represent the Jujits and for this you have

to really be really to be ready to do you to make something

so this let me let's a so, not a mystery, but it's a, why this guy can't do? Because I believe that he could get a little, then it's a thing

that everyone respected very, and I think I did the best the best thing in this concept. You think that has this style of merguling on an impervisible and have,

even as, been invicto as a professional, in Jiu-Gitz, in M.A. Also, also, also, helped, to alimenting this this aura that exists in the tone of you?

With certainty, what I prego in my life is an accredited in the Jiu-Gitz 1,000.

And all my situations of problem I resolved through the Jiu-Git's either psychologics, be social,

are emotional, or spiritual, or physical. So the practice of Jiu-Sit-S- for me was a question of evolution

mental, physical, and spiritual. And this practice, it gave a confidence, a capacity of improvisation, because in my time,

nobody had a banning, gelated, in my time, nobody would have a respiration to augment the performance, gymnastics functional with elastic, with elastic, these things. I, a 30 years ago, I did a documentary,

a joke, in a preparation of a championship in Japan, where my preparation was completely, I'd create my, I'd create my exercises, I'd do my things, because I didn't have a reference.

But I had to to make to make a my spirit. How are I will make a my capacity to control the my fear?

Go to the g-in-to- get to the cold, get to the g- breathing, to see, how you feel your

body, how you feel your agony, and how you can control this with a Piscar of eyes?

I'd I'd create situations problematic to try to try to try the

force spiritual that I had to the time of the I exactly,

even knew what could happen. So, this process of development,

he came instinctively, he came by the pressure that I had, he came, by the impredibility

of the moment that I would be today, the jupators are super trained, are super,

understand, are probably in that time, without, without, without, no,

without, it's a process of evolution. But they have much less stress in the head, much less a fault of certainty spiritual, because they

don't need to so they're three rounds in five minutes, it's all the regina category of paper, or so it's much more sportive

than an imprevisible and you have to be able to be ready to get to get to my

spirituality was so great that I thank I thank you to be good, and I'd say, well, if it's my day final,

if it's my last day today, I'd thank God to be alive, of being present it. Or, I'd say, even prepare for the death, I'd prepare for the end up the because desisting for me not an option.

Get to remark a lot, a rematch, it's not an option. My option is to gain or or more. Bate, I don't want to be. Someone who jogged for me,

or something do something faxed, but desisting, not was an option for me. So, So, this really was a

trajectory where I went looking solutions and looking situations for that I could be comfortable in the inferno. The your

curriculum official, let's say, in the M.A. The show dogs of the site of registro, he shows,

11 victories and 11 luthas, but you always, all along the years, had this story of the

400 and-tant the lutas that you never per was a story that was a lot of long of the years,

like the time, like the like the two goals in the paper he's not can't prove the

most, but he went to go to get to Romario and say that he not made the he's

how is you know, you know, this number of 400 luthas, how is it? How is

how is to live with this until today, let me this this this

was a count was a I think I was too much because all the seminary that I did at the time, 150, 40, 30, 20, I, in the final of the seminar,

after 6 hours, because my seminars were 6 hours, after 6 hours, I'd finalize to everyone. I'd do. Who'd train? Everyone wanted? To one to one, I'd finalize to all.

And, all the championships that I participated, after 18 years of age, in the category and in absolute, all the luts are finalized, and never I never per die.

Campionates of Lutte Liberty Olympic that I entered when Hollis was empowered with this, I never per die. Sambo, did competitions of Sambo in the Brazil and in the States

and also never I never per die. Or so, the luts with with guys that are really hard in the

road, professionals, and that not I mean, or so, it's in in

the clueling with surfists, or with the lotators of the World Olympic,

or the Jujitsu competition of the competition, of a

absolute, and in some other situation, every every I was

I was submitted, no there was no, I never gained for

points. And doing a a contage for same, very superficial, did,

for the least 450 luthas. So I firmed my record in this point. M.MA,

for example. I never lute in MMA in my life. I did do all the but all my

battles of MMA had a roundes, at times of 10 minutes, at times of 15 minutes,

as times of 5 minutes, but it was a number indetermined of rounds, until someone

to lose, or there was a reason, not there's a reason to get a not a job,

and there's to get a lot, or one or another. This not not is in the regular of

MMA, or so, these the Lodit all-tude-tude, not should not be not be made

not be able to because not are not part of this same type of the

kind of this countage, I think was cuted by conted by back,

justin, because I could to dobro this and it's difficult of the people negating

this fact. Who saw, who didn't see, unfortunately we don't have YouTube on the last

right of right? If you have some there's a question, you have some this type

of the I don't count, to get in these 400 of a or get in the

900 or how is how is the how is the criteria to get in this number?

No, I did a criteria based in the competitions that I competed

during the of number of competitions per year, number of competitors for competition, and I went and I was just things,

more or less, you know, because I don't can't let's out of a break, for example, two brigs that I had,

against the Hugo Duarte, that was a guy caska-grossed that I went with a praia and another way in

a academy. This not was, but how I can't dis-classificing a professional, a guy,

a car-grossed this, as one was one of the ones that I put it to represent to understand,

I think I'm, me, me, me, I see how various opportunities I

most try the music, and the number, exactly counted in the paper, I think, for me,

I feel satisfied with a least 450, but if if you want to put a

million, I'm getting more satisfied. A we've recently recently,

Mike Tyson, back on the 25 years, to confront contemporary

in the box. It was a success of vandos, in the States in the climate of nostalgia in the air. You just

have a want to a lot of a lot of the putt in the last years? No.

I don't I don't feel because first, I have some some some, some confusions

chronics that I don't, not me feel comfortable to train and confirm a lot, or a

possibility, because I can in the training pored. So I always, after I

my achukee, my I don't have more the confidence to be able to participate of a training and I don't need I've passed in this phase

of competition The first your career official official, say, of MMA, which is the 11 luts,

it, it's, it's 20 years, the Lutu, with the Loonak, there have these moments for, as you mentioned the Hugo Duat, you know,

the name gigante, the sport. What the moment most markant that you have been in these 11 luthers or

or some other other lute that you have made. These 11 battles practically

don't count my career because the my first with Zulu even though not even not be

the MMA was where was a 19 years and the and the my last

last with Funak I had 40 so practically were

20 years of career of high performance that are

included in this this this and And with this, it was a much success, much pressure,

much stress, much control emotional, much respiration, and in the final of the day, we're there's soaring. Chagued to have had a lot after Funak? Or the Funak, really, was the ultimate? No, it was the ultimate of Funak. Long after the passage of this experience of the Lutah with Funak in May of 2000,

my father, and then, there, other problem in my life in terms of to make my family to adjusts to this tragedy, then I'd go to problem tragic and reganer the the way of the

family of the felon of the 40-pocos years and then the mached and they've been not even more in competitive Comprehensible to manner was a experience, a very very d'all, I've seen various interviews with you, you

mentioning, you know, as the death of Roxton, that made desisting, of, of the of the commercials, you had of the Lutta Mark, if I'm not that was Sean Rock, or the Sakuraba, but that

the juts are that not were in the paper, what did for these battles not happen before? For example, Sakuraba, between 99 and 2000,

he had a gain of three Graces, that was in 2000 to your last. What did you did not have happened before in your career?

In terms of chronology, the only the only thing would be the only thing that was the Sakuraba, because he was in a phase

awesome, and I had had just got to get the Coliseo, and it was a proposte that I received from a TV Japanese, to do that the last, that would be I and the first moment of Sakuraba, that he was the Matador of Grace,

and I had been a funa, that would be a a lot epic. And, unfortunately, a month after to start to negotiate this proposal, my son,

that's parted, and then the thing went to back to back to try, I don't put the lot as a lot as a priority, which would be good for me, emotionally, to put it, focus, etc. But it would be a tragedy for my family that would be able to feel disamparada,

that I'd be able to. So I resolved, scancel the luta and get more as a chauffeur of the children, like the babar, and get there, like, aseithing,

as a boy, as a friend, support, the door in-conjunct to us to pass this crisis. And then, the Sakuraba

to go to, I think it was to the Vanderlay or to I don't know for who he He didn't, then he started to get a little of the strelato that he had and when my tragedy personal better than they

didn't want to pay even more one-third than they wanted when they wanted when they were when they were a little interest also for

for the fault of moment Uh huh you're falling you think that looking to this is a lot that

it was felt that the people that the people, it, for more that has had been the appeal, the Sakarabu had

been lost, it was a lot, it was a lot, it was a lot of, it was a lot of your family, was a lot of that was a little guy that I really

really felt that I I didn't put to look and the thing had the consistency, you know, before that would be a lot

good, because I was very confident with to wince him and he, very caska-gross, a very important in a moment, and this was a lot

really interesting to see. But this was for other dimensions. You feel that it's not a lot of the United that came to turn the grand center,

that in that era, the United, the F.C. The Japan was the center, the VALITU, with Brazil, and then the United,

he was coming the market, you know, you think, maybe it was a fault, I've been doing a lot of the

United? Well, I don't see No, no. Because the appreciation that the fans have, by the art martial in Japan, the respect, the the intendiment of the techniques,

the capacity that they have to to understand the a lot of the whole, is much more valorizing for the athlete and for the event than the grittaria, the bebebele, the gritty for violence,

the want to see the American, or so it's a, it's a much more based in entertainment than in the martial. It would be good at the time if I

would put it because eventually it would be more more money, it would be a thing important financially. I would not create a case with these facts that I've said now to not compete because what what interests in this case is the part of the law. But

the want to to look in the States United, not was present, because the culture the culture of art martial in American, it is much more for entertainment, than to exactly the intendment of the

thing. For that I never had to have an interest dobrod. It would be a thing interesting, maybe, financially. If you were to do you, if you had today, 20 years, in what category of the pesole of you would be able? Rapids, I see the

I see the next. There existed a court of in the time, so it was a different, I'm a guy that represent the

Jujits and eventually if I would have been in form, I would be with that

same mentality to represent the Jujits, what makes in a obligation to want to a lot that

favorerce the definition of the the because to be in a round

in a round of five minutes, it's much a It's much force, it's very train, it's much gas, is very equilibrium,

and they're quite patinando all the time all, you know, could happen a knockout sensational, but also the guys can't end up that time,

and you really don't have certain of who got in the first round, got him, or he got a thing that the the luta

not got, the lot of the guys not were won't have beencited, and it's a thing a bit more

was an first thing I would do it would be maybe to say a little this regal of a m.m.A. and to

try to try to try to when I came to the United the Mike Tyson had the displeasure

to say that he was the bestraiser of the world and then we came matting, the Roryon,

we, we, we, we came up in the propaganda saying I I'd I'd defiaeive

Mike Tyson because he not was the better the world, he was the best boxer of the

world. To be a better He would have to do a lot of a lot of He'd have to do with a little bit of but he was looking to look at that

he said to who's this guy not even money on this event so for him to be any interest for the world of

box compete with a Brazilian malucco that came trying to get to say in a porrata

but it would be a thing completely is an asserted in the philosophy Grace to do that

if I was if I was ready to to fight, I would call the guy more casca-grossi that I could put the most of the man, and I'd call him to

a regra differentia. Because I believe, if I had in form, I could be able to a guy of these great, a John Jones, or

a Mioquit, any of these, that's the casca-grossed. I think if I have conditions to extend the time, if I have conditions to me defend, if I have conditions to be able to

cancansal in the beginning I think I could could be to get to a process where

the jiu-jitsu would be in the final and get a position to get because when you

have a cut and you have to patina it's a thing a thing is a fact that you

don't have the capacity to a technique or I think if I if I

if I were ready to put to I would be a situation

of a kind of of a challenge, for that I would have the loter of

a lot to do you want to do if I if I'm to look to the MMA today,

chances would be the I don't have the same chance to wince. I don't

me able to my Jiu-Gitz with the form of the time that I have got

a guy more more than I in three rounds in five minutes. And

today, the category of 60 kilos is was a lot with a car of 80 kilos. The guys

do a magic pes in peso, dietic, sauna, banion, can't, desidato, muscle. The first great fight that they gain is to do the peso. The second great is the adversary.

Or, I never never paid a piece in my life. I never worked to do this type of work, to lose 15 kilos for a lot. It's what the guys do. So, today, there's a technology

apurated, a development technical and physiological and of remedies, of ways to train, a way to pay, ways to ridrater the body, and there's a whole technology

that I don't know any idea of what it is, so I see because I see the cron so prepare, so I see what he does, and I see that the things more difficult

that he does, not is even the training. And, so, all this part physiological, of pern of the burden of

the energy, etc. So I see that this part that is today

and that does part of the system, all the world today already

does 10, 15 kilos to compete, I think,

not the ideal, you know, it's to be what I think to be a

thing really to be the thing to be the the student, the practicant. So with these differences, with these things, I I'd probably would more

to look at a more way sensational to do, make a look on a lot on some of a regra, where two go into the ring, and one is a victorious, independent of the judge, of regra, of time of the luta, this would be the

thing that I would be working to do, and would have to be, and it would have to someone, someone is interested in see this, because if you see a part of tennis, for example, a party of tennis, it can have a hour of

duration and the guy sculachar the other and get for 7-7-7-0, or it can be a part of a tennis that it's a five, six hours. And the the platea is there

is there, so why the VAL-TUDD have to be decided with three rounds and five minutes, independent of who is looking, independent of what happened because there are certain

things that are that are the glamour of the MMA today, is the fact of the guy to start the first round,

because he did two socos in the car of one, in the second round he can't do two socos

in the other the same guy, he's two a zero, and get in the third round the

what was he was getting the shot on the car the face of the guy the guy He's a Virov, he encaged, a

Laos, and is saved by the gongo. Who was, gained this Lutta? In fact, if the guy not batted and was saved by the gongue, you got two rounds, you got one,

and you got a, or so, it's a little the criteria, of what is a a very, a real big, a great greheer,

can take a soco in the car, to be all the face, get to the final, he goes to come to the strangulament, finalize,

and gain. Or, which got who got not what took the soco in the case,

not what was the but it was what was what was submitted. And this criteria

of realistico, I would have to do that for the time to see who will decide this

this there's a lot of a marraiser in a criteria that not the

people say I'm I'm I don't think I don't think all the lot of

all the that are defined by a knockout fantastic, or so, a new chave. Or, or the MMA, today is a little entertainment, and the conduct of art martial is a little bit left the side.

The people want to see more the sensations. In your time, of a young, in the auge, you were one of the most well-pagued, the most well-pagued,

the most of the most name, if not the major name, the Valetud, and considering, and there had a propost million-a-millionary, as you said for great luthas, considering the

how is paid today to Conan Magregu's in the money fights of the life, how a young Victor Hickson Gray would have to be to make a

little like this you said a lot of a lot of Valle-Tood against John Jones and a Miotit. Look, the idea that came

for the last of a lot important, not is doing, because today the people, for example,

the Magreggar with the Mayweather, was a lot where it was a very simple, where I'd just anticipated that the Mayweather would have gained. And the guy got 70 million dollars, 100 million, I'd get a fortune. Or, or so, to make a range commercial, I don't have idea of how it would be made, how it would

be it. But in terms of impolocation, of motivation, to to fight, the idea was to bring the name of Jiu-Jitsu in the most high level possible. Or so, depending on the situation, even if I'd would be able to because it was a

thing interesting for the Jujitsu, for my career, for my visibility, for the possibilities futures. Of course, in the concept

of the new business that is a lot gratuit, but money not would be the relevant for me in a moment,

maybe maybe, after a that I would me establishes as a other, a other

would be a thing of I would discuss the Boulsa, before any other other thing. But to enter in the market, to

start to put the Rolofort in my direction, I would have to do do you to do do that do whatever

nothing. I would be going to be going to be a million to be the people

not, because the people don't think of a person of a great, with this aggressive this

challenge and we'd be to this guy, the would be a thing the money would

would be the point more important of the negotiation. It would more the honor, the fear of a manor, the technique of Jiu-Jitsu, the imprevisibility of a regra imprevisible, with more rounds. It would be a thing mehawka, so it would be a

thing to shocker the M.MA and the fans. We don't have a young Hickson in 2022, but we have, in certain of form, your DNA, and, being carried by the Cron, that you said a little, that he was called a now a little, that he construed a career

very great in Japan before F.C. and to turn the first Grace to win there, from the time of Royce. What do you see when you see

your son in action in an octagon? Imagine that you bat, a nervousism different of when, for example, you'd be a bathele in a teq

that exists in you also the nervousism of the impervisibility to be prepared to the death. How is to you see the

family now? I'm enche to the world, because I see that he's seeing a tradition a legado, but even

the nature of the event today is the nature of an event where you need to be much more physical than technical, than engaged in a more style. Everyone knows Jiu-Gitz, everyone knows boxing, everyone has a pair of the

weight to fight, or so, it has a loter, it was a more athletic, more physical, more explosive, more of moment, because it is very aggressive for the body. The training

what you do you do is aggressive, the diet is aggressive, the lute is much the force in a period in a period of time, or the people don't have afraid to get tired because,

before to get the the ring, the bell, no, the gongo, or so it's a thing much more more previsible that does the

practicant a sensation much more of control, but even though, it's much more imprevisible in the sense of who will gain the

because the two practically work on the same element, the two come forth to get to get to patina in the lama and get accelerated until to end up the gasoline, so it's a really very intense

and not is the same thing that I thought, the strategy. Today, when I see the Cron compete, I don't enter to get to

get to your coach, say what he has to do, I mean I'm obeysso and I understand and respect the practice that he's been doing,

with the guys who are partners who are the time of the methodology to train with a methodology to train with the methodology to look

that many times me disagrada see the cron to someone not a thing I don't

I don't me I don't me I don't me I'm not I'd do it and I see he he's doing he

is he's he's confident that he's he's trying that he's trying to he's he's

he doesn't a bit the field the strategy perfect to go to go to the way of the force, of the training, of the competition.

And this differentiates a little of how I see. Even so, I don't discuss with him, in an argument, I respect what he thinks and how he looks, because the mentality and all the strategy is a little different. If you were the coach of his, what would

would be the form with he would, what you would, what would, what would be, to give a performance like the Lott of Cabo Swanson, that he had this, we could, let's say, this concourse of

brabeza, let's go to try a porrada and see who will be in the final, but he ended who

he's not used the better arm of his which is the jiu-gits. Exactly. You don't have to be

emotional when the lute. I think the Cron, he was emotional, he wanted to to prove to him

and for the friends of his he could he would be that he had a no, that he didn't

be worried in a technique subtle and delicate and get a He was very fast, without to be a carina-liped with a carina-liped of a girl. He said, well, I want to prove that I'm a man,

that I'm in this middle here, because I can't bring. So he provo-proped to him that he has a heart, that he has a gas, that he can't a pressure. But this was no one of my this was confirmed, it was a bit of a man, who is a big who is a a grower.

What he showed to me was the fault of the capacity to strategically to work on the point fraco of the adversary. I never liked to bathe a head with with a little bit of the guy when he's distracted, surprise,

I'm surprised, so I don't go to go to go to go to simply by the door that's the way the way

fast to gain. The more more efficient, the more more than more traumatism for, if I could

get the ten seconds that he can't the more possible. So, with this, with this,

I'm being able to be able to be a man, as a, a good-for-the-line structural, that the Jiu-Jitzsche has to to do your life fast. So I believe that he would have to train a box. The way that he'd be experienced to be sufficient to know what he could...

But to use this box, to enter in the area of action and immediately transform the box for the Jiu-Jitsu. Not to be thinking in getting the guy in the box or to pack thinking and to try a porrada with a guy in the box box to make that

to show that he's able to work in any type of he proved this but it's a little short of the victory

and I think it was not was not the ideal you're not the corner of him against the campbosonson in the

last year after Alex Casserer and you don't be there when we will see the Chrome

of the VAT this is the maybe you may be the most I'm the question that I where the

where we're where we're when we're going to see the next his next one of his own actually,

we're doing a space to one for one for the other we're just we've had some little arguments and

now he's got with the he's moved to Montana he's there with an academy new,

he's not exactly what are the plans of him but I'm I'm I'm just

I'm a guy who he is a kind of a potentiality great not just for a great

professor, a great man, for him, I'm also curious, like everyone, to know what he will do in the next. Just for we finish this excellent bat-papo,

just thank you very for your time, because I know that the video is going to ask you. I'd want to you want to ask about experience that you

have in 2012 here in the Rio, as the promoter of the master of combat, why didn't do this event

that you did this event that you helped to create here in New Guinea? Well, the idea, the concept,

was good, because, for example, don't let nobody's be saved by the gongo. If you gain in a position wrong, you have to go out of that position

wrong until the gongue bathe, or that you're not a salvo in impotice in any impotice some. There are some concepts that I had

put in the time that I thought that would have to do a idea was good. But it happened of the partrocines and

the thing not to end to the way we had to we'd we'd, and the group that organized really decided not to not to go ahead with the event. And when you said, there had various ideas different,

the pesage was on the same day of the the lutechre, roundes more long, the public votable, the public would vote, by the decision final. You were one of the juizzo, the arbiter was the third element to decide if the lute was for points. What of these differences that the event

had, these differentials, you think would be beneficial to the MA today, that maybe the UFC should adopt the great events? Look, at a level of entertainment, of entertainment, the mudance, she doesn't come to

augment the entertainment, it comes to augment the realism that the lute will be implicated, so the fact of the loter not be saved by the gongo, it's, it's the final of the

because if you were salve by the gong, the rounds anterior can make you win the fight. But if you're not for salve by the gong, you can have gained all the rounds

anterior and you will be finalized in that last minute. So, the idea that I did these muddances not exactly to create an event

more sensational. But it's to create a certain major in the head of the lot of the competitors of who is really

the better there in and with this adjustments, the thing really would be a little more definitive, not too as respect of the interpretation

of the judges and jurors, but, yes, a thing that you don't have like, you practically not need to judge if the thing is very well structured. I think it's for

there the thing, I think the idea of an event of valetude, not deve attend simply to the concept of interter the public, to see those

things violent, the blood, the bench vowing, the dismay, a spinning kick, but to understand that the process of the lot of

a loter, as a vez, he apennie in the first, to capitalize, to get to get to get to get to

then he, at a little little bit of that definition of the but if were to him a little

more of time, he would get to get into that concept where he had been in the

beginning and these things are better are more this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this capacity to be this, really demonstrate,

who's, who's, not that he's going to, the other, that he's, that he looked, to, for, to, you know, in this, in this, in this,

new, in this, maybe, this idea, this is a, a way, of the media, like, you're, very difficult, you,

know, of, money, a, and it's a, thing, I never think in a, , I'm, to participate, be a reference,

to give a guide, the directions, the things, I thought, I mean with a idea, I came with a representativity, but I'm not a businessman, I'm a guy of promotion. If there were another promoter

interested to do something, I can enter in an understanding, maybe be the face of the event. You're an ambassador. Exactly. But the idea of this,

to me not not not have no problem no my preoccupation with this

no my preoccupation now my my platform rickson

point academy to bring a idea to get

so just the champions to the men but

to the part of the pyramid that are the people not

are people and that have to be to the

notion with the notion of the of respiration, with a notion of clarity mental and emotional to be able to be more a better, medical,

better policeial, a better, what businessman. I think the Jujits have a capacity very very strong to help the people. And I'm more focused

now in to try this, this knowledge that transcends the practice and a, and a Abraza the part spiritual, the part mental, for you to turn a person more empowered and to be more calm,

a better father, better friend, etc. What a great. I'd like you'd thank you to thank you. I'd say for this one hour of conversation here. It was a pleasure, like, always. A pleasure, my God. Success in these next process of the career and new projects.

Thank you, my. Feregris. Fereg. Be with God, God. All right. People of Brazil. Much sun, much a prairie. Poccurve. With a pleasure, clear, to have your company, Amigo Vint, in these

last seven seven weeks of 2021, the podcast to Croca's Franca Val-A every week on Spotify,

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