MMA Fighting - TUF Hang: McGregor vs. Chandler TUF 31 Reaction | Ep. 10

Episode Date: August 1, 2023

Alexander K. Lee, Jed Meshew, and E. Casey Leydon react react to Episode 10 of The Ultimate Fighter 31 on TUF Hang, which goes live on YouTube every Tuesday at 11 p.m. ET/8 p.m. PT/4 a.m. IST immediately following the conclusion of TUF 31. Watch the show on YouTube: https://youtu.be/mmpsUTSmFRU Follow Alexander K. Lee: @AlexanderKLee Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Follow E. Casey Leydon: @ekc Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprise his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking,

What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever.

Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster, the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, Ghosts in the Machine, available now only from Audible. We're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Get pumped. Welcome back.

We're back, everyone, to episode 10 of Tough Hand covering the Ultimate Fighter 31. We just saw the 10th episode of that show. We got a banger of a fight. And here to recap it with me, not G.C. Connor Burks. G.C. Connor Brooks is on, we'll be on site in Dallas, Texas, for the momentous Jake Paul Nate Diaz fight. But covering for Connor is his No Bet's Bard podcast partner.

Their wonderful, Jedmishu. I am very upset that you made me do this. He has been diligently following producer Casey mute that Mike he has been diligently following Alt-Saint Fighter all season every week he's messaging me when can I come on as a guest

when can I got on as a guest I'm like I'm like please wait we will find time for you I was on vacation jet I'm sorry we couldn't fit you in we had some great guests we got New York Rick in here we got my best friend Mike Heck finally it is your time to shine and you actually got a good episode so I

don't think you should be complaining too much I have two statements on that. First, if that's a good episode, okay. Wait, before we get to the... We'll start talking about the fight right away. Jed, what is your Ultimate Fighter experience?

What is the last time you watched? What's the first time you watched? What's your relationship with Ultimate Fighter right now? Oh, I watched the first season was the first time I watched tough because I was like a sort of in a movie. fan by that point. And so then it's like, hey, there's going to be MMA, there's a UFC show on Spike TV,

tune in and watch. I didn't really, like, really follow it super, super hard until season two. And then stuck with it. Very good season. Stuck with it through the first 10. I diligently watched every one of them. 10 was Kimbo, right?

I think 10 was the heavyweight season. Yeah. That was sort of, and I tailed off, it's like, they're just doing a lot of these. The fight quality has gone down, et cetera, et cetera. And then I will have popped back in periodically for the super significant ones. I didn't watch the whole show, but I would watch the fights for the flyweight tournament one,

you know, the guy who gets to fight DJ because that was like legitimately relevant to the sport. All of those fights were. names are how Patosha was on there, Moreno, some incredible things around that. I was all the tournament of champions, or whatever they called it. And then when they did the debut for straw weight, whatever, it was like, was that 20 or 25? I feel like it was one of the middle numbers. With Rose numbers, US. Yeah.

Yeah. So even though I knew going into that season that the actual best women's star weight in the world was going to be determined when Yohanna fought Claudia, like a week. before or whatever the tough finale. I still watched all of that because that was pretty relevant and have not watched an episode since that one. So I will say I was thinking while watching this, hey, at least you guys gave me this one where we crowned the Bannamweight champion

because the winner of Team Ravaleigh of Brad Cotono was pretty obviously in my estimation. You don't know this. You don't know. I got the finals. Can you name either of the other two banta weights that they could potentially be facing? Not at the top of my head. Is Cody? No, Cody Darden's fighting this week.

No, not Cody Durdon. Cody. What other codies are there? Gibson. Cody Gibson. Gibson. Yeah, Brad Kotton is going to be Cody Gibson. And possibly.

Is the other dude a rookie? He is a 36-year-old prospect. Yes. Oh, he's at a dude. Yeah, no. Rico does shoot? Jack Cotona is actually good of fighting. So is Team of Valiev.

So they're going to win. Yeah. As we saw from this fight, this was a legitimate UFC, I mean, UFC level, whatever that means these days. But this was a high-level fight, super fun fight. The episode was titled, if you won't see on our little graphic there, just win, baby. I thought obviously they could have called it bad blood or something like that because we had a ton of it. I don't know what opened up Brad Cotonin the first round, but a minute in. Oh, you mean like actual blood?

Yeah, he's like gushing blood from the side of it. No, we'll talk about the drama or lack they're off in the show after. It was all respect. It was all respect. This fight should have been on a, these guys should be making UFC money, fighting on a UFC card. It is, just to start off on a negative note, I'm sorry. It is ridiculous that they are fighting for whatever it is they're fighting for. I don't know how much they get paid or how they're compensated on the ultimate fighter.

I guarantee it's not like win and show money because these are exhibitions. They sign up for the show. there has to be some sort of compensation, but this should be getting paid way more for the kind of war that they put on. They should both be getting a $50,000 fight at the night bonus. I hope the U.S.C. did right by these guys because this was a great, great bloody battle.

Jed, if I could get some of your thoughts on this three-round war. It was a good fight. I wasn't watching it close enough to score it. Sort of just holistically, I felt the Cotona one. Obviously, there was a little bit of controversy. afterwards, Valiev and company believe he won. But look, like, this is the best tough can ever be. Like, these are two actual quality guys competing against each other in a fight that is

relevant. Like, it does mean something for them and that there are stakes here. So this is probably the peak of what tough can be. And I'll admit that, like, I enjoyed watching the fight the rest of the episode we can get into all that if you would like. but the fight was fun. It was also weird because as a,

I'm not going to say lapsed fan, as a lapsed viewer of this program, do they have all the fights this year just been 15 minutes? No, no. The long time was like,

there were just two of them. The first round, there was a lot of, it was pretty much, so Team Chandler has dominated this competition. So Team Chandler went seven and one in the sort of opening round,

a lot of finishes. I think, a couple of the opening round fights went to a decision. I could be remembering wrong but there's a lot of it. Are they all scheduled for three rounds? Because for the lifetime of tough, it was like they're amateur fights because of

the way that the restrictions and the biggest work. No, the semifinals are three rounds, but the yeah, the opening rounds are two rounders. Okay. So I I sort of assumed that it was like, oh, I guess we've just gone to this then why are these amateur fights? And then I was really

baffled, but Dana White being like, oh, we're not getting another round? That made no sense. How? How? Why? Like, we had three. Like, I genuinely rewound it and went back and was like, did I just imagine three rounds?

Like, why would we get another? There's not a 10-8 and this is how this works. What's the hell's going on? He thought one of them was a 10-10 or so? I don't, it made no sense. It made his, a lot of the commentary around the fights doesn't make a lot of sense. Sometimes you feel like, especially from Connor McGregor and from Dana White, you have a feeling they may not understand the rules exactly. The fundamental rules of M&A?

Because that's not like some sort of trick. You have three round fights literally every weekend. Yeah. Like 10 of them every weekend. And when they go to decision, you're not like, I wonder if we're going to get another one here. It's like, okay. It's a little strange. So, yes.

It was a competitive fight. But like, there was no world that was drawn. So I was very confused for that portion of it. I don't even know why they would show that. Like, that's the thing if I'm the team, I'm like, I'm just going to cut that line out because that line makes no sense. That fight is the platonic ideal of what Dana White and the UFC sell the ultimate fighter as. They want you to believe every fight on the ultimate fighter is like that.

Two guys trying to scrape and claw their way to the UFC or back to the UFC in the case of these guys. And putting it all in the line, every fight is going to be Bonner Griffin won. and if you just watched this fight, you probably thought, wow, this must be an amazing season. And honestly, the fights haven't been that bad, except for last week.

I did not think that, by the way. I did just watch this fight, and I definitely didn't think that. Well, it's not for you. Chad, you are a hardened, educated, M.A.

I'm saying, they're hoping to capture fans who either have not watched Ultimfighter in a while, which I guess would include you. Or people who have never seen the Ultimate Fighter before. There's browsing through ESPN

to hear about this show. I think the less you know about the show, the better. GC, like the first two or three episodes, he was, Jed, he was brimming with enthusiasm. He was really having a great time. And then after three, and then he had never watched the Elder Fighter before ever. And then after three episodes, he's already like, I think I've seen everything. I'm getting a little worn out here.

Three episodes. It's all it took. I will say this. I took notes while I was watching it because I wanted to be a professional, even though I got Shang-hot into this. Please. The very first thing I have in my notes and the thing I wrote down is they have a very solid production values. That intro was better than their

intros used to be. There are clearly professionals working on this show and doing what they can to make it the best program they can. The efficacy there is up for debate, but I was pleasantly surprised that there is clearly time and diligence put into the

product, even if the product is still not for me. Yeah, we compliment the production team every week. It's the creative direction that has really gone nowhere for about I don't know how many seasons now maybe 10 straight 12 straight seasons I imagine people are doing their best

but they do seem to fall into I have watched every season as people know and it's if you did again if you stopped watching a tough 22 like I said the last season you watched was probably not all that different from this one if you saw the strawweight season yeah that's like

what you said is long 25 24 something like that they let them talk to their families which was different because not was like, which is honestly like a good development. There's really no reason to do. You got to be. That was the whole pitch early on. I was like,

we're going to stick you where you have nothing to do but focus on fighting and getting better over these five weeks or whatever. And that's just real dumb. And so like letting them, you know, Skype their moms or whatever was good. But only if you make a semifinals. The rest of you suffer.

They haven't gotten to do it. If you lost, If you lost, you don't get to go home. You just sit around and hang out with McGregor and Chandler, whoever in the team for the next seven weeks. You still have bodies. You still have to have bodies. You still have bodies. Yes, these bodies have no chance of winning the show anymore unless, God forbid, someone gets injured.

But yes, if you lost week one, boy, it's a long show. Let me tell it is a long. I'm fine with that. That's just sort of part and parcel of how something like this is going to work. So that's all. You mean, if it were you, you'd be like, oh, I'm a, You'd be like, ah, whatever. You just have to know.

Like, you have to, that's part of the calculus going in. Well, one, you can leave. They cannot force you to stay. That's called- It can legally force you to stay. And it's illegal. No, it is, no, you are. You have to suffer the repercussions of that.

It is illegal to leave. It is illegal to leave. I've seen Las Vegas laws that say, one of the law, you cannot leave the Oldwood Fighter House unless given permission by a UFC official. It is, you will be arrested. Look, that's not entirely impossible given this way that the UFC has. over that particular town. But yeah, like it's, it was, I won't say it was exactly what I would have thought it was,

like going in. And it was fine. Like it was, I will admit, it was a hugely helpful that we get to view this as a screener and I'm not having to also watch 20 minutes of commercials to go along with it. What do you mean? What do you mean? What do we just watch live with everybody else? What do you mean?

What are you talking about? What's great? What is it? What do you mean? If I had to watch that. show with if I had to watch the entire buildup towards the fight with commercials into it, I would immediately turn it off. And that's not to say that like I get what they're doing, but here's the revelation I had

watching it. This would be kind of cool, kind of cool if we were getting this sort of in-depth background and storytelling before a fight that I cared about. Like if we got this sort of in-depth video package with like behind the scenes before, Gaitjeep Orier, kind of cool. Not even saying that it would be great, but that's like two fighters that I am like very involved in emotionally and want to see other aspects of their life. For this, do not mean this in any disrespectful tone towards Brad Cotonin and Timor Vallev. I don't care enough about you.

And so this is just a long preamble. to a fight where I'd rather just have the fight. And so if I had that same preamble interspersed with commercials, it would be very, very tough for me to want to hang around for this. And I don't know if that's just intrinsic to this episode because there really wasn't any story to tell. It was, hey, Brad went back to Connor, which makes sense, good move. And then they prepared and then they fight and everybody was very happy with each other.

I don't know if every other fight has been sort of similar or if there's been some other dynamics that have made compelling television, but that wasn't it. First of all, good plug for the show. Tough hang. Thank you, Jed. Well done. Excellent product synergy, as always. But I want to talk about the rest of the episode, but quickly, let's throw to producer

Casey. E.K.C.L. I don't think I gave you a proper introduction at the beginning. Just let me get your thoughts on the fight before we get to the rest of this episode, what little there was actually content-wise outside of the fight. My thoughts on the fight? Yeah, yeah, just last thoughts on the fight before we move on. As far as the fight, it was easily the best.

best quality fight of the season for sure. But like Jed said, these are the two, even with the lightweight, it's probably the two best quality fighters in the whole house. And yeah, it's too bad. It's too bad. This wasn't the finale, actually. This should have been the finale. And it wasn't. But as far as, yeah, just pure quality of a fight, yeah, this is the best, the best fight of the season. But also one of the most boring episodes of the season, too. So. Yeah, the fight was much needed after last week. Jedda, oh, Casey, I wish we could have had Jed last week. What happened last week?

It was one of the worst fights Delta Fighter history. It was just two guys from Team Chandler who... Aren't they all from Team Chandler, basically? No, well, I said 7 out of 8. So two guys from Team Chandler. And by the way, so we should say this week's episode, Brad Cotonou like you said, went back to McGregor. Of course, he trains with McGregor and John Kavanaugh and S.

S.P.G. Ireland outside of the show. So it was no surprise that he would go over. So technically this is a way for team. Actually, they laid the groundwork early in earlier episodes too. Oh, yeah, yeah. Going over and stuff. Don't say, don't just make Jed feel left out. Jed's going to feel sad that he didn't see this episode.

Why, was it a parameter that at the, that one fighter take the rookies and one fighter take the veterans? No, so they did this terrible, they did a horrible thing at the beginning of the show where instead of, you know, normally they would draft people one by one. This time they, just to create this weird veterans versus prospect gimmick, they grouped for all the eight fighters who had not fought in the UFC as prospects. So regardless of how much experience they had or their age, their prospects just from not being the OC. And then eight fighters who had previously been in the UFC were the veterans.

And then they grouped them all together. So four bantamweight veterans, four lightweight veterans, four lightweight prospects, four bantamweight prospects. And if you picked, and you had to pick by group. So I was like, give me the prospects. And they were like, okay. Unsurprisingly, the prospects got washed by some of these very, very good U.S. And about the prospects, there's really only one prospect, honestly.

And that was the guy that almost. Lee Murray. Yeah, Lee Murray. Lee Murray. Yeah, Lee Murray. Okay. Lee Hammond, excuse me, Lee Murray. Lee Murray is very different.

He would have been a great ad to the vet. I'll say that. I'll say. I'll say Lee Hammond's. the actual, the only, I guess, honest prospect. I think he's a traditional. Yeah, he's under 25. Everyone else were just literally guys who just haven't fought in the UFC.

And half the time, the prospects were older than the bench. It was very strange. But yes, last week's fight was terrible. It was Roosevelt Roberts, Austin Hubbard. They didn't want to hurt each other really, both because they'd know each other and also, they got to know each other on the show. Grow up, Peter Pan. Grow up.

I do. I do. Ever understand. this. I just don't get it. It was terrible to watch. Do you know how much fun I would have beating the shit out of some of my friends? I know.

I would. It's fine. It's a fist fight. If we fought and you took it easy on me. If we fought and you didn't like beat the crap out of me, I'd be very upset with you after. I'd be like Jet, I'd be like, Jet, what the hell? I don't want to go back too much, too much about last week's episode, but I didn't really take it that way.

I just thought it was like, it was two guys that they've actually gotten close over time and living in the house together and training all the time. together that not only were they closed, but they knew each other very well as far as how they fight. So it wound up just being a hard sparring match, or at least it felt that way. And unfortunately, it was 15, oh, no, this is, take in mind too, it was 15 minutes. With commercials. 15 minutes, but there was no coaching either. No coaching. It was literal. So like, like, no music, no coaching. And like, and like, I had to just think the, this had to just weird the fighters out. Like there's literally no noise.

You could hear the, this is what you heard the whole time. Yeah, Jed, so you didn't see that. Because they're both Chandler guys and neither of them want to go to over to McGregor, Chandler's team, essentially agreed, well, we're not going to corner either guy other than to give them water. That's dumb as hell too. It was horrible. It was horrible.

So it's just, let's not, hold on guys. Let's not get, let's not dwell on the last week's fight. Yeah, yeah, right, right. We went in after last week, talking about nothing. It was the worst episode. I want to. I want to. With the Roushmfio defensive, they know it really was. It really was.

I want to bring up the calls home. I thought it was one. Here, let me last thing I'll say on this, because I have watched zero of this. I absolutely guarantee you knowing nothing that has happened that if you put Jason Knight against his best friend, he's beaten the hell out of that dude. I mean, we'll see. Nothing wrong with this fighting your best friend. Next week, I think he gets along with Kurt Hollibon.

He's buying people live in hell out of Kurt Holliday. There's more of the training together so long. That too. That's too. not just Jason like beating up a dude. It's like there are, there were the main training partners. And I think that added a big,

just added a stalemate to the fight. It was weird. And the no coaching. Like everything wrote. And no coaching. Yeah. There's no one to motivate it. There's no one to go,

F him up, F him up or whatever. Connor was kind of, like, all right, Michael Chandler, I won't, I won't coach either of you,

but I have assistants. You get this one and you get that one. No, but they didn't want to, everyone. They were a fan. Jed, you know all about family. You don't coach against family. All right.

Come on. You're with you're with me on this one. I am not. This is very dumb. Moving over the last week's crappy episode. You don't coach against family. Brad Cotonon, congrats to him getting the split decision win moving on. So we're playing Dom like fought his entire family in movie eight.

He had to. He had to. He had to. There's another. Let's not get into those weeds. Congrats to Bracitona, not only winning, but I think being the star of this episode, you mentioned the calls. How lovely was his call home to his girlfriend? Do you guys get a little emotional when he was, can I, can I read out?

Can I read some of Brad's words here? Oh, yeah, his poems. That was, that was. He tells his girlfriend, Invicta FC fighter, Katie Saul, by the way. He tells her. Did they say that? Did they say that? I didn't know that.

I didn't know that. I feel like this. I did not notice that previous episode. Okay. But yeah, she is a fighter in her own, right? Anyway, so he writes to her in his journal every night, and then he finally got to read to her. I have to risk. I make it emotional, guys.

So just, at Casey, edit this out if I start crying. He said, Katie, how I love writing you every evening, how great it will be to see you again. The thought of you every night allows me to go to bed in peace. I cannot overstate how much I love you and that I am here for us. how I long for the calm of being done with this crazy sport, but also I love the excitement and thrill of doing what I truly love. I'm looking forward to having coffee with you every morning, being cozy with each other,

and experience more of life's ups and doubts. How I love you to the moon and back. Love Brad. Sorry, guys. Brad, I don't know you, and that was very nice, and I don't want to tell anyone how to live their life. If you have those feelings, you should just wifer. If that's because I have never once written something like that about somebody.

So if you got those strong feelings, put a ring on it, man. Let's close the showdown on you. Two things. Two things. The coffee thing is a call back to tough 27. As you guys, I'm sure know, when we first met Brad, he mentioned that they had footage of him and Katie drinking coffee in the morning and like living a simple. You guys remember, I don't know why I'm bringing it up.

You guys all remember that. It's a great callback. footage in there. They just assumed you saw tough 27. They're not going to show you again. We all saw tough 27. How many years ago was tough 27? Five years ago, I would say.

Brad, you really got to put a ring on this, man. Like five years? They've been doing coffee in the morning for five years. It is at least four tuffs ago. Like, come on, buddy. Brad. Don't be that guy. Don't be that guy.

Jed, I was going to say, so last week. discussion, who would we call? And I said, I would not call my girlfriend. Yes, first. I said I would not call my girlfriend, specifically because, first of all, if I tried to need this mushy shit with her, she'd be laughing in my face on television, which be very embarrassing. She'd just be busting my balls the whole time.

And probably, like, saying some insults towards me that, like, they couldn't even air on TV. So it would not be a wholesome moment. It would not be the wholesome moment that we had with Brad and Katie. I'm like Timor. I'd call my mama. So the Timor call resonated more with me. I would call my mom.

Jed, who would you call if you were in the... stuck in the oldwood firehouse i thought you'd call my kack your best friend yeah that's the other option yeah i think i think you should definitely do that's the thing is i would want to call the funniest person because i i've watched my fair share of reality television big survivor guy i've written a couple of things on the website about that very program and the episode every season that always kills me is they do the family episode when you're deep in it's like i've been here for again, Survivor lasts like 28 days, like a month.

It's like, ah, you've been here three weeks. And if you've made it this long, now we're going to bring one of your beloved family members. And I was always like, mom, I want to be real clear.

I will not be crying if I will go on Survivor because it's three weeks. And I'm an adult. That's not, that's just not like that long to have to have this sort of thing. And I thought Valiev did like it right. Like he wasn't like really emotional. He was like,

yeah, mom like this guy won before like I'm here I'm going to do my best or win like I would probably call my sister uh because like just hey check in like hey everybody good in the family or whatever like nothing happened that I need to know about but it would be much funnier to call uh like aerial be like hey I would like to get Ariel on this UFC program uh so I would like you to call my one true relative Ariel Hawana yeah and it would be great I last week we did try to try to extend it to like what if you could call anyone you would probably call like Charles Bennett right if you could call anybody for crazy horse if I could

call anyone there'd be oh goodness I mean that's I still would probably pick Ariel just because it would be the funniest to make them put Eric on television but I mean if if the whole world is open think of the think of the possibilities as far as somebody who would accept the call because like oh yeah yeah yeah yeah know, if they just like collect call a bunch of people who don't have any idea, I don't. But I feel like, I feel like Crazy Horse should pick up for anybody. Just like, yeah, yeah, so. Felony.

His name's felony now. Felony. I'm just not, look, Casey, I'm not going to call the damn app X and I ain't going to call him felony. Just ain't going to happen. He's crazy. He's Twitter. That's the world. Felony is a, it's like an anagram for something.

I cannot remember what. I swear, I remember he said it wants the M.A. Or, anyway, again, let's not, let's not go down that whole again. So the other thing with Brad Cotonna is he is fighting. Jay, I don't know if you caught this because they mentioned it several times. Why was felony at one of the prospects? Because felony is currently signed with Fight Circus. Okay, that's right.

He has, he's making big money, Casey. He doesn't need this. He's actually, yeah. He doesn't need this. He's hanging out in Thailand and ruling. We're good. Jay, I don't know if you caught it. They've mentioned it multiple times.

Brad Citona fighting to become the, illustrious first two-time ultimate fighter champion no one's ever done it no one's ever done he previously said the ultimate fighter which i like i like i think that'd be cool the ultimate the ultimate the ultimate fighter um this is like the faintest praise you can give so this is like the worst thing you can call someone right that's like winning homecoming king twice it's bad yeah yeah i i won't so so how many champions have come back on the show uh they've had a comeback they've had come back seasons so with the champion the winner the winner the winner how many people have had the opportunity to be a first two time winner so he's

i swear i swear there've been others i i i struggled to remember i feel like the redemption season they have people who actually won no i mean no one who won who's won the show and then came back as a contest again there isn't anybody i think i feel like there i'll have to i should have to i should have I should have this prepared. I should have this prepared. I apologize. I think it has happened for. They've had obviously different seasons for guys who haven't won the show and come back.

Does Kendall Grove come back or some? Did Kendall Grove win? No, Kendall Grove has not come back. And he did win the show. I keep thinking they keep saying this and the show like it was like, but that's not a thing that is, I don't know. It's not a thing. It's not a thing until it becomes a thing, Casey. Jed, are you a bachelor guy?

Oh. You know that. Why do I ask? So last week, G.C. compared the terrible fight we saw, the terrible 15-minute plus commercial, so over 20-minute long fight to, like, if the bachelor just, in silence, if the bachelor just had a segment like of unedited, awkward conversation between the Bachelor and, like, one of the candidates. Oh, they do.

Literally. Oh, oh, one of those happens, like, once a season. Sure. It's on it. It's the best. 20 minutes. It was the best. There was one of them this season.

of The Bachelorette. Yeah. Early on, she went on her one-on-one day with a dude. And it was absolutely incredible. He get, they went to a theme park,

like a small amusement park by themselves. And at some point, he's talking to produce like, amusement parks make me sleepy. And he's just like chilling and she's just trying to make a conversation. He's like, wait, makes him sleeping?

Eating ice cream. Amusement park. I don't know. It was incredible. And when she's like, hey, this isn't going to where I'm going to send you home. him. He's just like, all right, peace. And he hops in the van. And there's a producer trying to

ask him questions in like his post exit. Oh, so like, how did Fia what happened? He falls asleep while she's asking questions. It's incredible. So they have about, well, you know, those are the best episodes. That's hilarious. But they, but they play up on the boredom. They play it. Yes. They play up on the boredom. This is on a fighting show. They're not, they're trying to make it feel exciting, which. Yeah. But then it's weird. It was surreal. But then they, but they, Then they, after you watch it, then they bring Dana complaining about how these guys suck. When just the fight before that, he was like, this fight was so, oh, God, we're talking about the last week again. I didn't mean to do.

I only brought it up. I only brought it up because I want to extend the Bachelor comparison because being the two-time ultimate fighter would be like winning the Bachelor twice. It's like, it's clearly not a good thing. You shouldn't be winning the show twice. And they really started driving at home. So incredibly awkward. I mean, I'll be happy for everybody does it. I think it's kind of cool.

Look, I'm not saying it's like. awesome but it is it's unique cool is it's something it's it is unique it's literally unique uh because no one's done it before it we have had two-time finalists uh diego lima brother of uh bell tour champion douglas lemma and a fine fighter in his own right uh made the finals twice tough 19 lost and tough 25 which was the redemption season and then the guy he lost to jesse taylor technically qualified for two finals again he beat lima in the finals of ultrafire 25 and was then in a immediate release after failing a USADA drug test. And he also qualified for the tough seven finals back back in the day,

but was not allowed to compete after going on a drunken rampage in Las Vegas before the finals and having a tearful talk with Dana White saying, yeah, you're not ready for this. Dana White would then sign him to fight like six months later anyway. But yeah, so those are your two people who have come closest to having the chance to win it twice. But I think Casey, you might be right. I don't know if anyone's wanted to come back. And no champion has ever come back as a contest. Mr. Cotonna.

I mean, it's rough. It's a rough thing to be called. I think it's fine. I do think that it is amusing, though, that there was a quote from him, which I wrote down because it made me chuckle legitimately of. Hold on. It was talking about his coach being like he's a world-class coach. It's like a world-class driver driving a Ferrari.

I'm the Ferrari. like my guy you are a Hyundai at best you are back on the ultimate fighter for a second time you are not a Ferrari that's not his fault you are a Subaru a reliable

quality car you're not a Rory yeah exactly what's wrong the Subaru yeah what's wrong there's nothing wrong I'm just saying if you've ever driven a Ferrari and you drive a Subaru their world's different is just not the same he went Ferrari he went too big

He should have said maybe I'm like a used Camaro. You know, like, from a distance, you know, I like, no. A low end Mercedes? Yeah. Like, would have been like that, that would be something I could accept. I mean, like four year release. Yeah, four year release. Yeah.

Well, they better sign Timor as well. He better get a contract. He doesn't have to win the show. I would hope so. I don't even know why they actually fired him. I genuinely don't understand why Timor Valley have got cut. He lost to Jack Shore in London. He's Jack Shore.

sure. Yeah. Yeah. Like he's a very popular, good fighter, and that's it. Like, I at least can see Brad Katona didn't,

like super impressed during his run, right? You know, like he'd lost back-to-back fights. Yeah, one of them was Mara, but you lose two in a row. Sometimes you get cut.

I can get that. I genuinely don't understand why team or loss. I had him picked as my favorite to win the season. Me too. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I didn't,

I actually scored the fight for him, too. I scored the fight for Timor, but I understand. Yeah, I don't know if you scored. Did you score the fight? I went one and two Timor. So I had a team. Yeah, I had a Timor win.

But I could see one and three for Katona, I guess, right? I mean. Yeah, I did not spend a ton of time, like actually scoring it. I sort of thought loosely that one and three went to Katona. But I thought it was one of those fights where I think Brad Katona should have won. And then he tried real hard not to win for big stretches of it. and ended up pulling it out. Like, I thought he just looked like a much better fighter

when he would commit to being a better fighter. And then a lot of the time, he just sort of was really hesitant. And it almost cost him. Jed, I'm sorry, we've gone this long without even talking about the stars of the show, really, one Mr. Conno McGregor and your favorite fighter, the Michael Chandler. Let's talk about McGregor and Chandler first.

Were you disappointed at all this week, Jed, to not see any, because this is one thing we cover every week. It was supposed to be something they haven't every week. What did McGregor and Chandler do? In this case, it was nothing. I think there was zero interaction between the coaches this week. Were you disappointed? Did you want to see them mix it up a little bit?

No, I don't care. They're not going to fight, so why would I care? Whoa. Whoa. I'm sorry. Spoiler. Well, let's jump ahead here a little bit then. Well, first of all, we had the discussion on a little bit,

oh, actually, see, quite a bit on the M.A. Fightings Rankings podcast, which, It feels like it was just yesterday. I swear that we recorded that. It does. That is out of the network right now. So I don't want to make you rehash all that. But that's the other thing we do every week is we do a little confidence check in the

Chandler matchup. It's been going, it's been trending down. I have a lot of confidence. It sounds like you're out of zero. It's not happening. It sounds like you're out of zero for this match. Five. I'll give it a five percent.

Oh, that's in case. Generous. In case you haven't been paying a 10. I was like five out of 10. I'm like, it's pretty eye. Five percent. Oh, okay. Probably out of 100. Okay. In case you find viewers of Tough Miss 291 in the aftermath, because it has since been deleted by Conner McGregor, because if that man loves anything more than, you know, not even going to say it, man loves to delete tweets.

I'm the real BMF. He can fight for pennies if he wants, but I want spirits. I call the shots. I'm in it to launch shots. F, Chandler, though he doesn't say F, you want it, call for it. I believe that, Conner. Connor McGregor made his intentions about fighting Michael Chandler extremely plain there. F. Chandler, I will fight you instead, Justin Gaichie. Connor says so many things, though. I've still, I'm still a believer. Casey hasn't been been believing in shaking at all. I've been, I've been that this fighting happened since like episode one. This is true. Yeah. Yeah. So you're less than five percent now. Yeah, whatever, yeah, five percent, negative five percent. Yeah. Oh. I've still.

I'm still holding out hope. Channer's the biggest loser of the season. It's tough, which is weird because he dominated the competition. Like he dominated the competition. He's at least, like I said, he's got his own. He didn't even dominate the competition. Like Channer picked the teams and like they didn't do anything. They just went, Dana went here.

These are your guys. Like, okay. Look, I don't have not watched anything. So again, could be entirely wrong. I suspect, based on the limited viewing I got in this season, this episode that Michael Chandler didn't spend legitimate, valuable training time talking about how

balances life and then working hook kicks but not even really. You got to flex the leg. Or maybe let's teach some of these prospects, quote unquote, like how to work behind a jab.

That might be a more relevant piece of information to have than balancing and just flexing your leg. And it admittedly, like, that will burn after a while. Your hip flexors get turned there, but I don't know, man. It feels like you're maybe not using limited time expertly. Jed, were you, so this is a go fall to our, what did Connor do this week category?

You were not dazzled by the little very subtle McGregor fast ad that we had to open the show that didn't impress you? There was a, where are we just talking about? I mean, he was wearing it on the stuff. Yeah, yeah, he's wearing. I just assumed that his entire, I assume that everything Connor is doing is, he's covered in fast and forged. No.

Yeah, yes. It's different stuff every week. So last week he went to the house. August McGregor. Uh-huh. That has not been advertised yet. I think they're saving that for 11 or 12.

That'll appeal to probably be on the ice baths next week. Oh, I don't want to spoil anything for anyone, but we'll get to that in a second. Last week, Casey, what was it? What was it? That's stew, right? Stu. It's stew. It was a, they made a stew and he poured, he just poured forged Irish, whatever, stout into it.

I'm talking more about that week again. That probably goes poorly. Well, Jason Knight said, man, this tastes a lot like beer. And I'm like, yeah, you know, it'll do that to it. I'm not a good cook. I'm not a great cook, but I think if you pour that much beer into a stew, it's like beer. But they set up that episode by doing that, but also all the winning, not half of fighters, but there were a bunch of fighters that I were still weight cutting and having the fight.

And they were just like, oh, I can't have any. So all the losing fighters who are all on Connor's team like, hey, this is great, Connor. This is the best thing ever. It was just horrible. But yeah, they've been doing shots of proper. They've been, yeah, drinking that style. And now a couple of McGregor fast things. So Connor has gotten a lot out of this, I think.

Why do you think he agreed to do this? I know. I don't know. How did you feel about him not even really cornering? Did you notice he did not really cornering on the show? He just kind of stands at the side and, like, shouts and in a suit. I think it's fine because I don't believe that Connor McGregor is of, I think he will be a bad coach if he does make that transition.

You can see the other stuff, I mean. It's based on everything I've seen, like, particularly a tactical infight coach. I did actually think the things that he kept yelling to Brad was correct. Ketona really needed to sit down on his rear hand shots and just go for those a lot. And instead, he was super tentative and that let Valiave kick the crap out of him and arguably win the fight. But Connor has always struck me as a dude who he knows what works for him and believes that that is just the only way to do things. And that's not a productive way to coach a fighter who doesn't have his same skill set like Brad Katana. And not to put him on this level, but like that's like the Michael Jordan mentality.

they were like, I don't understand. Why can't everyone just do it the way I do it? And it's like, well, you're Michael Jordan. This person is not Michael Jordan. Conno McGregor, this person not Conno McGregor. Oh, Casey, one more note. I forgot about the fight. I think was it, was it Chandler that shouted like, be a dog?

You got to be a dog to Timor before the round three. Do we add that to the curse, the animal curse? Jan, if you're not aware the previous episodes, every time they showed someone owning a dog, that fighter lost. It was and it went Michael Chandler definitely said that a lot Being a being a animal be a best So I think this counts as part of the curse

Animal imagery Animal imagery yeah Literally not one fighter who showed a pet Went on to win I don't accept Kurt Hollaba who has seven dogs Kurt Hollaba Was it Hollaba? It was a hollaba that has seven dogs Was it Holliba? It was Holliba

Yeah because I wanted to hang out with him Oh and that's when we knew it was the jersey Right right so we did it's just it's just a McGregor jersey not the If you have more than six dogs you do win under six dogs That was the other man At some yeah at some point again it goes up

Your chance of losing and then you add more dogs And then it goes down there's a critical mass of Canaan that gets you Okay now and once you get over it you're fine But it's a big commitment you gotta have a lot of dog It's me of Kurt Hollaba guys next week Kurt Hollaba faces Jason Knight in the last Sorry the second semi-final

For the right to face Austin Hubbard And become a USC fighter Live their dream guys is becoming a UFC fighter, finally. And also, we get the Coaches Challenge, as you guys said, which looks terrible. It looks like it is a trivia contest in a ice bath. You think that looks terrible? I think that looks incredible.

I think that may be the best coaches challenge I've seen. I mean, it's the first one I've seen a lot of time. This isn't saying much. It's way better than making them do a sport against one another. I mean, that would also be funny because I think both of them are low-key, not that athletic. So if you made them do like an entirely foreign sport to them, they would probably suck at it, which would be some sort of amusing. There is a zero percent chance either of those dudes are deeply steeped in the history of the UFC. They are going to suck at this so hard.

That's why they were due. That's why in the previews, it's a multiple choice thing. It's not like, hey, who's the first dude who Brock Lesnar beat in the UFC? He's Herring. I don't need a fucking multiple choice. they're going to give them three choices and they're going to brick it because they don't care about the sport in that way. I think it's a great idea, honestly.

And they're sitting in water. Yeah. And cold and an ice pack. It's going to be great. It's going to be. They're going to have to ask them the most like plain English trivia question. What does the U and UFC stand for? Yeah.

It's multiple choice. No, so much it should ask. So much it should ask. someone should ask Connor what the what the F stands for because he hasn't been doing much of that lately if you know what I mean I'm just saying I'm just saying oh wow he was injured he was injured I'm just saying he was injured wow well I went there why couldn't they done pickleball why didn't they like isn't pickleball the hot sport right now it can have done pickle ball I mean it is the hot sport right now how did they not think to how did they not think to doesn't actually require athleticism so they could probably do it no I think the trivia is way funnier it's way funnier it's way funnier All right, let's end with some YouTube comments. I should have been doing this all season. I don't know why I just thought to do the YouTube comments here. We've mentioned a few here and there, but I want to read some of the best ones.

Casey, last week, Eukhner and I questioned, how come they never show Chandler visit in the house? We got a lot of McGregor visiting the house. Max Payne, BFTUT said the Chandler visit was edited out. It was on the after tough show on UFC's YouTube. Not that anybody watches that, but thank you for letting us know. At JBRT's 98 says, I need that soup recipe talking about last week. So far, I got three liters of Black Forge, Irish, Stout, and Potatoes. I think that's all you.

Three liters? I think he's doing it right. I think that's how they did on the show. So I just, this was last week. I hope this guy's okay. And this will send us off because I want to ask a question before you sign off here. At Seldom Seen 3835 just says this has to be the last ever tough. I don't think it is, but I will ask both of you, Jen, I'll start with you.

I will start with you. What would it take you to get, what would it take to get you? you back to watch another season. Not even the whole thing to watch, to watch casually, watch like a handful of episodes and be, you know, tune in every time. I will probably never watch a season where I have to watch the parts of the show.

I will watch any season just for the fights that is relevant to the sport in a meaningful capacity. If they introduce a women's atom weight class by doing it in a tough thing, I'll watch all of those fights and I'll watch the tournament through that structure. They did it for featherweight, even though I think they've tried to do that. And then all the women just went to ban and weight immediately, which is hilarious.

If they do something like that, if they are introducing a new weight class, so it is meaningful, or if the UFC, and this would be the way it would really get me and it would make me, I'd be all in, the UFC buys Bellator and says to the Bellator fighters, you have to go through tough. we are doing it tough we are putting all of you into it and that's how you will make you way into the UFC I would watch it because it would be incredibly funny to watch johnny eblin should be like this is garbage you're going to make me learn how to fist fight from sean strickland I would kick the crap out of man I would watch that as well but other than that if it's not a weight class for a belt or something like that I'm just not going to care the ultimate fighter 32 fightmaster

that is what I want. If they make exclusively a season of glory kickboxers, because apparently that is the strongest fighting style, I guess I'd watch that as well because all those dudes are future champions. But other than that, yeah, I'm just whatever. Yeah, a gimmick, a gimmick would be nice. A gimmick beyond fake prospects versus veterans. That's...

It has to be an interesting gimmick, not a gimmick that I do not care about. Not a gimmick that I could see on explode fight series. or a gimmick that that honestly frankly just doesn't make sense. Casey, what's bringing you back? I mean, besides the fact that obviously we're going to do this every season from now on, we're obviously tough hangers for life now. But what's going to bring you back? I don't care if they're good roommates or not.

Like the whole living together and being secluded. I think that's just done. Maybe throw some chaos in that. I mean, in terms of peer entertainment, I'm not actually talking fighting. I'm talking just entertainment. Throw some chaos in the house. I don't know.

Put a couple of snakes in there. There just needs to be some chaos to. I'm talking to sport. I'm talking entertainment. And that's the issue. The show was just boring. It's just boring. That's what it is.

And make it entertaining. I don't know. Chad looks giddy. I've got it. I've figured it out. You got to do the ultimate Bachelor. And so you're going to blend the Bachelor and the Ultimate Fighter together.

And so, yes, the Bachelorette, you know, gets to, hey, here are these 30 dudes. They're all lightweights. In the end, I'm going to marry one of them. But she also has agency because she's a person and gets to choose her partner. So instead of here are the roses, the people who don't get roses go home, they all fight. But the people that she would give roses get an advantage in the fight. like, hey, this guy can only fight with one arm because she didn't give you a rose. And then you have to show how much you care about The Bachelorette by overcoming the adversity that is placed in front of you.

That would be a gimmick I would tune in just to see what is happening. I thought you're going to say, like, they do, like, everyone gets a rose except for like four fighters every week. And then those four fighters have to, you know, get matched up. And then the winners of those fights get to stay on or something. That's a little lame. But then it was the same guys. You're going to get those same dudes fighting each other.

Stay on again. One thing I would like to get rid of completely and I have to be reformat the show a bit is get rid of teams. The team's thing is just stupid because they're not teams because the teams isn't just fighting each other. So it's just just get rid of teams to just have a bunch of people there.

Did they have teams? Was it always teams even from season one? And it's always been teams. Yeah. The entire construct was to get you to care about these fighters through the stars that the company already has. Yeah, but the idea of teams, I just never liked. I just don't.

You know, Casey, I think you're on to something. What we could actually do is when we're getting rid of teams, we can also get rid of just doing like specific weight classes. And there's probably too many fights. So maybe we could just do five fights across all weight classes. And they could just do that once a week. And the winners of those fights get to go into the UFC. and we invented the contender series,

it's a vastly superior product and that's just what we should be doing. Yeah, it's... This product is outmoded by Condender Series. Yeah, basically we just say the Contender Series. Get rid of the stupid house, get rid of the teams, and just have fights. A little backstory, cool, whatever.

It says like you guys saying, get rid of the ultimate fighter. Let's settle down. It almost doesn't be saying, get rid of the ultimate fighter. And I know that's not what you're saying. I know that's not what you're saying. Here's what I am saying.

And this episode made a strong case for getting rid of it. To tie it back into the episode we watch, makes a strong case because functionally the moment he was allowed to stop training with a stranger and go back to training with his coach. That's exactly what happened here. And not only is it exactly what happened for Brad Cotona, everybody was in universal agreement that it was the correct move. Michael Chandler was like, yeah, I think it's going to be better if he goes in a lot. with his actual coach instead of me, which is saying the big secret out loud. Actually, the best way to get the best out of these fighters

is not to lump them in a house together and have a stranger teach them. It's to just let them work with the people they work with and prepare in the way that they normally would. That's how you're going to get their best performance. Oh, we shouldn't be doing this at all. That is the very logical step after that to take. And they just said it in this episode.

And like, yeah, it's going to live on as long as Dana's in charge because he has an affinity for it. And frankly, at this point, I think it's just stubbornness because everybody tells them that this product sucks and they hate it. And so he's just going to keep doing it because FU, I can do what I want. And as soon as Dana retires, I guarantee you, as soon as Dana is gone, one of the first things that happened is tough is no more. It's like when the UFC fired all the lifetime fake roles when they got acquired. because Dana is no longer calling the shots. As soon as he's out, tough is gone. Oh, real quick.

I think I freaking hate about this show. And hate about it in a sense that it just shows that Dana, they don't care about the show, is that they have Dana for multiple, I think three straight weeks. He's won that same T-shirt to do his- Pazvala shirt. So he's wearing the same shirt for a shirt that's supposedly happened two weeks ago,

which basically just means he just came in at the end of the season and he just got fed lines to say about fights. That's all. I did think they also filmed, I would guess they filmed at least two semifinal fights a day, if not all of them. Change your shirt. It's TV.

You're supposed to, it's delusion. They don't, because like in the show, they did that last week too. When Roosevelt Robbers walked back to the locker room, you can see the next fight warming up in the actual locker room. So like,

oh, wait, these are shot the same day. These aren't weeks apart, like they say in the show. Just crap like that. Just like, I don't know. It doesn't.

bother me. No, but it's just how it. That's just reality television. They feed you lines and you say it. No, no, I know that, but it's bad TV. Like change your outfit. We want to be fooled, Jed. We want to be fooled.

Fool us. We know everything is fake. Fool us. I work at TV, like live TV. Yeah. You, you shoot something today that's going to be part of a live show next week, but you change your outfit. So it looks like it's one continuous thing, not like, I just.

And it's just like this show, Jed, where it's, it feels, it seems like, We were just watching along with everyone who's watching along with us now. But, I mean, obviously we recorded this hours ago. I mean, maybe Dana just owns like 30 Hasble shirts. That's a strong possibility. I, if anyone watches this network, you're going to see me wearing the exact same shirt because I have 12 of the exact same shirt because one day I was like, not because we just film all the shows in one day.

Yeah. Yeah. I was just like, what if I don't do that much? We don't do that much movie. exact shirt that I like. I really like this shirt and we'll buy 12 of it and then I never have to pick a shirt again because it's the next one up on top of the dresser. Maybe Dana's just that way with Hasbola. Well, Jed, thank you and your famous, your infamous shirt for joining us on this week's tough hang. Casey, two weeks left, buddy, two weeks left and we are free.

We are free. We are free on Sulton-Fir-R-31. But it has been a pleasure. Are there- Two more episodes. Yeah, 11. Because they're doing two weight classes. Yeah, and that's why I, if I'm not crazy, I swear the show is not always 12 episodes long, because I feel like they used to do two semi-final fights in one episode. If I'm wrong, people, please let me know in the comments. But I know for a fact they did used to do two final, two semifinal. You're just going to let you know.

You are the tough historians. No, there's people watching. I know, but I probably watch too much. There's probably people who've been a little more selective and can remember better than me. My brain is mush at this point. But I do think everyone who keeps tuning in. Again, thank you, Jed. Thank you, producer Casey, for sticking with me for another week.

Two more weeks. G.C. will be back. I'm pretty sure next week. I will also be back. But this has been another sterling, optimistic episode of tough hang. See you guys. We're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Boarding for flight 246 to Toronto is delayed 50 minutes.

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