MMA Fighting - UFC 255 Post-Fight Show

Episode Date: November 22, 2020

With UFC 255 in the books, MMA Fighting’s Mike Heck, Alexander K. Lee and E. Casey Leydon break down the top storylines from Saturday night’s event in Las Vegas, including Deiveson Figueiredo and Valentina Shevchenko’s successful flyweight title defenses.  Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Alexander K. Lee: @AlexanderKLee Follow E. Casey Leydon: @ekc Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Well, hello, you crazy fight fans. Nice to see you again. Just shy of 3 a.m. Eastern Standard Time. And we welcome you to the live UFC 255 post-fight show here on M.A.fighting.com. I am Mike Hack being joined by the Prince of Positivity. Alexander K. Lee. How are you, sir?

Ready. Let's get the show on the road. Let's go. I'm great. Wow. The excitement is just off the charts right now. And there's Casey Liden joining us on the other side. I think there's a dog walking behind you.

I think I think A.K. scared him out of the room with his excitement. Woo! Woo! Woo! I love it. It's so late right now. People are going to laugh at anything I do. So this is like the best kind of time to be on, I say.

There we go. Well, the music just sounds so. on good right now. We're all at ease. We're all just feeling peaceful right now. But AK, we have not heard from you tonight. We just had what seemed like to be a five-hour post-fight press conference stream. That has come to an end, but

now you're joining us. So we have two championship fights. Both champions retained. They were massive favorites. Obviously, Valentina Schifchenko was one of the biggest favorites in UFC title fight history. The Lions got up to minus 2,500 on some websites heading in before Jennifer Maya made

the walk to the octagon. So both champions retained. Interesting main car. The team like the pacing was atrocious, but we're not going to talk about that. Prelims are fun. Your overall thoughts on tonight's card. I thought it was a really good show. Maybe I'm having this take because I think we were all kind of of the opinion that this card

was being overlooked a little bit, so maybe I'm just going out of my way to defend it. But I did think it was a really good show. We had some good finishes, some good performances, and some really competitive decisions. I'm not saying all those fights that went the distance. We're necessarily the most exciting fights, but as I sort of noted on Twitter earlier in the evening, this is what happens when you have good, sensible, competitive matchmaking.

Sometimes you're going to have fights that are a little bit of a stalemate, that don't necessarily showcase each fighter's strengths. But I thought we had at least two or three really good competitive back-and-forth fights, again, plus some really good finishes. So, yeah, I can't complain. I thought it was really good show. I thought it lived up to expectations, at least the expectations we had. And as far as sleepers go, I thought it was one of the, actually one of the better

cards of the year. So I don't know. Maybe I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm against the, you know, the general popular opinion on this one. But I thought it lived up to positive expectations. This is a card for me that, let me just be honest, I enjoy, I enjoyed the card. I thought it was good. I was entertained. There was competitive matchmaking. The main card pacing was awful. It was just so bad. Like, I felt like it was three hours in. We were like four fights down. We still had the main event to go. Luckily, Figurato went out there and did the damn thing. finished it quickly, but it just felt like, my God, it just took forever. So that was like my biggest complaint.

And then, but there's, there's a part of me that felt kind of bad because I pushed this card like it was UFC 199, like it was UFC 206. Like I really put it on a pedestal. And there's a part of me that feels bad about it because I don't think we didn't get fat. After the first fight, I'm like, oh man, like I'm feeling pretty darn good right now. Like we get first fight of UFC 199 between Polarayas and, uh, and Dongheon, Master Dongyang Kim was ridiculous. And so was Lewis Kosei versus Sasha Platnikoff,

which ended up being the fight of the night. So I was like, all right, we're off to a good start. And we got some good knockouts. The prelims are awesome. And I think just the pacing killed it for me tonight, honestly. Yeah. I think that's really hurt. It was brutal.

I'm pretty sure the five-fight pay-of-view main card lasted either as long or longer than the seven-fighted main card, with the way it was paced. But at the very least, it felt long. Like it felt a lot longer. I don't know if it was longer or if it was on the same length, but it felt a lot longer. And that's not how the main portion of your show should be, right?

People should be kind of like, people should leave the main portion of your show wanting more. You know, not like, oh my gosh, is this over yet? Because I, I, seriously, by the end of, in the middle of Schochenko, Maya, not because it was a bad fight, but just because like you said, the pacing the cart, I had almost completely forgotten there was another flyway title fight coming up. And I was really looking forward to Figurato Perez. It's just my mind had gone to this place where we have a championship fight, it's going the distance. I was already starting to kind of mentally leave the viewing of the card, and then I remember there

was another fight, which thankfully, and fortunately for Davidson Figuerado ended quickly so. And it was very exciting. But yeah, look, we also mentioned, I think, in the lead-up, we would have all shuffled the card differently. I hate to take Chukagin Calvillo off. I don't know if I would have because I do feel like fights that are potentially number one contenders' fights do need to be. on pay-per-view and do need to be showcased as such.

So not so much it would be for that one. But the Tim Means Mike Perry fight. Once Robbie Lawler fell out for me, you bump that to the quote-unquote featured prelim and you move up either Brandon Moreno, Brandon Royval, which is also theoretically a number one contenders fight or the man of the hour, Joaquin Buckley, put him on, put him on peer review. But maybe he was better served on free TV, so I don't have problem with that. I would have put the, you know, Royval. So a little tweak that really could have changed the pacing of things.

Could have changed the feel of the main card. but, you know, what can you do? What can you do? You know what? I promise this and I don't want to break any promises here. So let's just go right to the peeps. This is your show. All right.

It's 3 a.m. officially Eastern Standard Time. And I'm not just saying this. I'm not saying this and say, let's rush through this. I'm not saying that at all. But we want to hear from you. You guys have been up for a while. You guys survived like 14 hours of fights plus a 14-hour post-fight press conference stream. Let's hear from you guys.

You guys. Heroes. You guys are heroes. Before we go to the comments, because I can't get a straight answer on this. Did Figuero get robbed of $50,000 tonight? Absolutely. Okay, I just want to double check on that. I'll just, because actually when you told me the performance bonuses,

I actually didn't listen to you because I just assumed it was Figueroido in it. And then I looked online. I was like, what? So I was double checking. I just didn't misread this. Yeah. Okay, that was... I don't think I've ever seen a champion win of fights that quickly, like under two minutes and not receive performance bonus.

I'm sure I'm wrong on that. I'm sure a lot of examples will come up in the comments. But generally, when you have one of the fight is exciting, which it was for those two minutes, and you get a quick finish, you win or a performance bonus. And, of course, we think Buckley should have got the other one. So no disrespect to Antonina Shepchenko. But yes, when I saw that the bonus were announced,

I honestly couldn't remember how the Shepchenko fight ended, the Antonina Shepchenko fight. that's how how much I think Figueroa was robbed. I remember being a really good performance. I just don't remember the finish being particularly like, oh, that's a bonus winning finish right there. So yeah, Figueroa was absolutely robbed. Congrats to Antonia Schochenko for gaining the bonus,

but I really hope they do right by their men's flyweight champion. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Yeah, you got a big bad hose job. Okay, just double checking on that. All right. Let's go to the peaves. Two and stills.

Two and stills as expected. Potentially, it looks like Figuato's next title defense is set for December 12th as well, which is crazy. I knew this is coming. I knew this is coming. I want to stay positive, but she asked and she's a long time commenter. Yeah, Sandy fam, you are awesome. Thank you for staying away with us. And we wanted to start this on a positive note, but apparently we're not going to

to do that because Twitter just all over Rogan tonight. Joe Rogan makes his return to the pay-per-view broadcasts and teamed up with John Anick and Daniel Cormier and not a lot of... I didn't even hear John Anick's voice tonight, honestly. I know Anick pretty well. I'm not going to lie, and I'm never...

He'll probably never answer this truthfully to me. He seemed a little frustrated today. He seemed a little frustrated at certain points trying to get in there. But A.K., thoughts on Joe Rogan, his performance. Thoughts on Joe Rogan being back with broadcast team today. Thoughts on Rogan being back.

Thank you for the question, Sandy, fam. I'll start positively. Good for him for being there, for being in the building and speaking on the broadcast. Okay, so, you know, basic function of his job. Congratulations for him on the recent Spotify deal. I guess it's not recent anymore, but for being a very, very rich man and not even needing to do these pay-priv views anymore. One might say not even needing to properly prepare for these shows anymore.

which I think was somewhat evident tonight. He was atrocious on the commentary today. And unfortunately, he brought Daniel Kormey down with him. Dan Korme, super nice guy, a really, obviously brilliant analyst when he's paired up with the right people. And especially, I think, in a two-man situation, I think it's when most these fighters work their best. But boy, he's so chummy with Rogan and almost got too comfortable.

And there was just moments of just dumb jokes, laughter, just nonstop. I was like when you're watching the NFL a halftime show and like someone says one thing and they're just laughing for like two minutes. And it's great. I know some people like that style of commentary. I know it creates a, like I said, it creates a very familiar, like friendly, oh, we're having a good time atmosphere. But, you know, like we said earlier, there was a lot of really good competitive fights on this card that really I would have wanted to have that great, like really in-depth analysis from a guy like Daniel Cormay, from a Dan Hardy, from a Michael Bisping, you know. And we didn't get a lot of that tonight. and Rogan is such an overwhelming personality at times

that it does feel like he might have screwed up Cormey's perception of things because Rogan I mean even before he became just a part-time commentator only doing pay-per-views even before that he always kind of had a habit of maybe seeing the wrong things and bites maybe selling the wrong narratives and he had Cormi biting on a lot of those tonight so so unfortunately for Cormi I do think his performance also dragged a bit but Rogan boy he didn't understand some of the scoring

he was literally asking how to how does some of the scoring work in some of the fights which again maybe people find that funny but I just thought it was distracting and boring there was a lot of classic Roganisms you know oh a lot of oh oh oh a lot of that so I know people like it you know him and gold it used to bring the excitement they're a part of the reason a lot of feel got to the sport but I just feel like we've moved past that kind of commentary now and I feel like we can do better so uh Rogan are really needs to step up his game or step aside because he's just not bringing a lot to the broadcast in terms of analysis in terms of entertainment and people like a shit great guess what he has a whole

show you can listen to it's what like three hour three hour podcast but uh i'm really i saw the commercial i saw the commercial i'm aware of it yeah so people are definitely aware of tonight there's a commercial for during the broadcast some people's tweets i think some people's tweets i think we're sponsored by that spot of that new spotify show so uh so yeah i think i'm a little bit done i'm a little bit done with rogan just a really poor job tonight, I felt. And we have so many other options now. There's just no reason to keep. If he doesn't want to be around and doesn't want to do shows and only wants to

pay reviews, I think we should give the opportunity to someone else at this point. I think he wants to be around, though. Like, he said it many times. Like, he wants to be there. Like, he's got the best seat in the house. The problem with Rogan is, yeah, he was pretty bad tonight. I want to see just for experimentation's sake, him and Anak, just the two of them, and see how it would go.

Sure. Because I feel like it's just a one-upsmanship battle. Like Rogan's, you know, trying to get his thoughts in. And, you know, especially when Dominic Cruz is there, Cruz will just call him right out. Like, I'm like, what the hell are you talking about? And then, you know, they'll go back and forth. And they'll have this like little rivalry the entire time.

This one was like, who had the better jokes, who had the better dad jokes, who could crack up Anick. And I can't, and I'm telling you. I'm telling you. Anick was probably like super duper frustrated, super duper. Every time I would hear Anik, I'm like, oh, yeah, Annick's there. I'm like, oh, I recognize that voice. When did he show up?

Did he show up? I think of Rogan, like, he just, he wants to be everything. He wants to be the play-by-play. He wants to be the color analyst. He wants to be the jokester. He just wants to comment on how everyone's tired. It was just I actually felt bad for Caitlin

When the first question was after a big victory After you know suffering a horrible defeat against Andrage was like Like you get lots of crazy Like Mark Henry says a lot of things to you How do you remember all those? I'm like what? She's like I don't know I study He's like what does Pino mean?

I was like that's our codes It was just like okay Cool win Number one of pizza. It was just like, oh my God. He, he, okay, this, when I first started watching UFC's, I thought Rogan was great because he was great for new fans. He introduced fans to like, oh, what are they doing?

Why are they just holding each other against the cage? And it was, it's like, oh, okay, he kind of, he educated the fans on the parts that people may think are boring. They're not actually boring. They're strategic. They're grinding. This is a strategy. But now I feel like we're past that.

I think, like you said, we've kind of grown out of the Rogan years. And it just feels like I was listening to, I was, I felt like I was listening to his podcast. Like, it was one of those. What do you call it when people just watch fights and he just, I don't know. A fight companion. It felt like a fight companion. And like, in D.C. kind of kept falling into that. I was like, dude, this isn't a podcast.

We're actually, this is a sports broadcast. And please do your jobs. So, yeah, thoughts on Rogan being back. Thank you for the questions. If anyone is wondering like, oh, what are we going to get the time about? Joe, the Rogan's still good. Just watch that main event again and watch how many times he didn't call. He got so infatuated with the narrative of Maya being a good challenger.

Which she was, by the way. She did a good, you know, she won the second round and she was competitive throughout. But after the second round, he was, he almost ignored everything that Valentina Shorchenko was doing. Maybe again, I know it's boring to talk about dominance. You know, we want to move on and find a new narrative, but there was moments where she was just landing combinations, and Maya would land like one punch. It's like, oh, big punch by Maya.

And then just nothing, no mention of what Shopchenko did. So we're not just picking on, like, funny little things here and there. There's like broad, obvious things that a commentary is supposed to do that he totally missed. So, yeah, very rough, a rough night for Joe. Yeah, it's just, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it is what it is. It really starts my best of my scoring. Like, I think it was that the Dalby, Dalby Rodriguez fight, which I actually score for Dalby, but like,

and I get if you score it for Rodriguez, but they were like just like flipping over tables. Like what? What? Like they just get, like even DC, like they get into this narrative and this guy has to win, I guess. They're stuck on it.

It gets stuck on it. And it was like, I thought I was crazy. It was like, that Dobby won that fight or at least I thought it was close but yeah our friend uh just and gordette no more rogan talk at least for the time being yeah uh do you think valentina was rusty she did have a long layoff since having surgery in her mcel and did and did say she was happy it went five rounds to confirm to herself that she was 100% healthy uh kasey do you think she was rusty tonight no not at all i think valentina is a

a professional and she was ready. And I just think that was fans not giving Jennifer Meyer her due respect. That's all that was. I didn't think she was dressed yet. I thought she looked great tonight. I thought she looked great tonight. I thought she really looked good. She dominated that fight.

She lost the second round. Like Jennifer Maya held her up against the fence and has a lot of strength, got her down, was on top of her. Took no damage, though. After that. Yeah. Yeah, after that, I mean, Valentina, Valentina pieced her up for like almost that entire fight. She went to the body so much.

I think Annick at one point in the fifth round said, like, she landed 93% of her shots to the body over like 65 strikes. That's insane. That is insane. And when she hit Maya, it was, I mean, it was nasty. You could hear it. It was just, it was rough. Jennifer Maya, God bless her. Valiant effort

Very, very well done She went in there and did better Than I think any of us thought she was going to do Anybody really So she walks out with her head held high Her stock rises even in defeat But I don't think Valentina look rusty at all What do you think, AK?

I'll acknowledge Tristan's viewpoint this one A little bit because I'll say As far as we know, this is maybe the first surgery she's had I don't know if she said that post-fight She did mention she did talk about the injury And the post-fight injury with Rogan quite a bit I do wonder if she's the first knee injury she's ever had to address with surgery. And I think even just from a mental standpoint, that is going to affect you.

And it may be one of the reasons why she went with her grappling and wrestling more than with her, then with her, you know, just a pure striking attack. Because she did initiate a lot of the grappling against Maya. Who is a striker, but a striker who also has good resigning due to do black belts. So I do think she would have struck more if she was feeling a little more comfortable. But again, she's so well-rounded. It's hard to tell whether it is because. she was compensating for some sort of injury or rust or just because, again, she's just so skilled.

And that's the avenue she saw for victory, which she was correct. She out, she out grappled, got enough better positions, held position, top position, and won the fight that way. But I will say, I wouldn't be surprised if there were little things that might have escaped R.I. Might have escaped things we'd notice that maybe her coaches saw. And again, maybe if you asked her, she would, she would be able to say, oh, I was a little off here. My time was a little off here. I do think an injury like that. There has to be. And a little bit of time off. almost eight months, something like that? Eight months?

Nine months. I will say, I do think that there were things there. I can't pinpoint exactly what, but I think, Justin, if you're saying you think that there's moments where she was off, yeah, probably little moments, but nothing, yeah, nothing that I think severely affected her performance. Obviously, she looked very, very sharp tonight. Yeah, I don't think she was rusty. I think maybe she adjusted her game plan.

I think that's maybe more accurate. I also think that the expectations for Valentina, are just skyrocketed. They're through the roof. Like between the head kick knockout of Jessica I, you know, the Chagin finish, all that stuff. Like you just expect her to go out there and just smash people in all these different fun ways.

You expect her to just knock somebody stiff and then do a crazy dance in the middle of the cage over somebody's lifeless body. Like that's what we expected to see in that fight. I think all of us picked that fight to get finished somewhere within the first three rounds and we didn't get that. I think decision. Of course you did.

Oh, who won our picks tonight, by the way. Oh, I saw it. I saw it. Actually, a former, former, former, former colleague. Former colleague. We don't need to talk about him. A former colleague won. Wow.

Oh, you know, oh, wow, I know who came in last place. Probably me. Yeah. It's got to be me. I stuck. I sucked on the prelims. Yeah. You had a rough start.

You had a rough start. I had a rough start, I had a rough start. I had a rough start, I had a rough start. I had a rough start, I had eight out of 12. That's not terrible. I was like normal. I think it's like average. I was,

you had me beat before the main card started. No, I was saying, I mean, I know a lot of people, like, a lot of people were, they were impressed by Maya's performance and stuff. Honestly, I wasn't. This is the Maya I thought would show up. I thought Maya was a really good fighter, not a great fighter. Valentina is a great fighter. And this was a good fighter losing to a great fighter tonight. And I've seen her, I've seen my, if I, probably five or six times in Invicta, I've seen all her UFC fights.

I've always expected big things from her. I never expected her to defeat Shifchenko because I just never, I don't, I just don't see how she does it. But I knew she was tough. I knew it would be, you know, quote unquote, a fight. And it was. And so I kind of, nothing surprised me. Actually, Valentina, I was very impressive Valentina, honestly. So.

Her chin held up. Her chin definitely held. up because she took some big shots in that fight and hung in there the whole time. So congratulations to Valentina Shofchenko, still the champion. Looks like Jessica Androge could be next. I hope so. Androge versus Murphy, we'll see. Austin Jones, how many wins his Figuero need to draw triple C to come out of retirement,

aka I saw you rub your hands together. So I'll let you start here. Man, I thought they were almost like needily. Like they were trying to bait Henry Sehudo tonight because the promos and the commentary was, you know, the whole, and someone asked about this after, I think, was, was, Davis and Figito, the man who saved the flyweight division, you know. And while I think, you know, Henry Sehudo, when he sort of used to sell himself like that, I thought obviously it's a bit of an exaggeration.

But it's weird. That was kind of his whole gimmick for like a year there, that he was the guy who saved the flyweight division. And I don't even, I think they barely mention his name tonight. I don't know if that's part of, you know, the usual UFC erasure of fighters who were no longer with the promotion or who are retired, but it was very strange. And if I, I'm amazed to Hudo didn't, I think he tweeted a little bit after, but didn't go on a John Jones-esque, you know, sociopathic rant afterwards, quote tweeting people and going like,

oh, this is what I did and this is why I'm so great and this is why the, you know, I'm the real one who saved the flyweight division. I didn't see any of that, surprisingly. So, sorry, so the question was, how many fights does Figurato have to win? What does he need to do? Really, none. No, really none. Look, Henry Seudo, it's the same reason Henry Seudo really retired in the first place is.

If you gave him enough money, yeah, exactly. Casey, I don't even need to say anything. Your gesture says all, you give enough money. He wouldn't have even retired in the first place. You give him enough money for a Figaro fight. He'll cut however many pounds he needs to cut. They were saying out of Corbyan and Anna Grayson. He's probably about a buck 70 now.

But give him a few months and give him the proper incentives. So Hudo will get right back down to 125. and he'll happily fight Figurato. So it really isn't a matter of how many fights. He already knows, I think, Sehudo and probably his management. They already know what the UFC is trying to do. They're trying to bump him out of the way. They're trying to forget the Suhudo era.

And he'd be more than happy to come back and fight Figurato, like, tomorrow if the money was right. And if you could have a miraculous weight loss, he would do it because all the incentive is there already. Money. Yeah, I mean, just real quick on that. that. Honestly, I think it would take Figato winning the Bannamoy title too. Like, I think you'd have to win the second belt and then the money. So a lot. I'm going to say there's zero chance that fight happens, which is kind of unfortunate. Yeah. I think if Cody winds up having the belt, the 25 belt or the 35 belt, I think maybe that could bring out Sehuda just

because he's a bigger name. The trash talk could be easier, which means more money. But yeah, don't expect it. I'll give it 20%. It seems to be a... Yeah, I think Figurator's next fight with Brandon Moreno verbally agreed both sides

December 12th, co-made event of UFC 256. So there you go. That is going down. So we'll add to that list then. Nick Doroff, why do you think the refs are hesitant to take away points from fighters?

So there's one thing that hasn't really been discussed. We haven't touched on it here. And something that kind of ticks me off watching the fight. right? And listen, Davis to Figuero is a great fighter, but he grabbed the fence. Yeah, blatantly. At least twice.

At least twice when Alex Perez tried to take him down. He was going down. He was going down. Was that Herb Dean? Was that the ref in the main event? No, Mark Carter. Mark Carter, okay. Mark Carter actually slapped his hand out of the fence the first time and then Figurato did it again.

I think he did it again. President of getting him down eventually, but, you know, who knows, like if he got him down the first time, like the position right against the cage. You know, maybe that would have been different. Definitely affected, like, it definitely affected the position. He ended up in a much more, I think, advantageous position than if he had, then if the initial take down her works. But Casey, let me ask, we'll start with you.

Why do you think refs are hesitant to take away points from fighters? Because the 10-point mess system and MMA sucks. That's why. It just does. It's one, taking away a point in a boxing match, over 12 rounds, nine rounds, 10 rounds is so much, it's so less consequential than a point for any point. And especially a three-round fight.

Five-round fight is different. Three-round fight, it's, it's kind of, it could be catastrophic. So that's why the refs, I mean, it's just they don't, the refs don't want to be, they don't want that much influence on the decision. You know, they just, that's, me, that's simply why. And, you know, I, you know, you read online, I was like, oh, deduct the point automatically, you know,

say, but you can't, you just know, you can't. You've seen a million fights where a guy kind of grazes with a groin shot or grazes them with an eye poke. You know, you're going to deduct the point for that. And it's like, yeah, there's blatant groin shots. There's half. Like no eye poke, no fence grab, no, no, no, yeah, those are, they're not created even, not created equal. So that's why. And yeah, it's just the rules, the way the rules are made right now, it puts the reps in a very bad position.

It's just, it's hard. But I do think they are too hesitant. I can't remember that there was a fight earlier in the night. What was the fight earlier in the night? I know there were, I was a couple of, I think there were three shots in the first two fights. There was three nutshots. I mean, it's becoming such an issue. There's a graphic now.

You see how to create a new graphic. A timer, the nutshellic timer. So it's, yeah, that's my answer. Their offense, their offense, they were not. Not shots in that first fight, but there were fence grabs in that first fight too, right? Didn't Palatnikov get warned? Like he was at like the final, final, final warning? Yeah, yeah.

Listen, if you even sniff the fence, have you even touch it? Was that, yeah, it was that the one. It was like a dad. It was like, you're, no, I'm sending you back to your locker room. You know, if you grab that fence one more time. Chris. Chris, Tyo. And then, and then, and then Cozy got him real bad in the, and the nutties again.

And I think he was just like, all right, he suffered enough. He suffered enough. Oh, yeah. Alan Joband took a nice groin shot. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I mean, you're kind of building on what Casey said is, you know, they say the best referees in most sports are the ones that you don't talk about, right? You do not want to be the story after the fight.

And if you take away a point and it ends up in a draw or worse or even leads to a fight or losing a fight, you better believe that your name is going to be right up there with the two participants of the fight. Because we know most fans know the referees. made very well. Jason Herzog, Gervdine, of course, Mark Goddard, Chris Dione has maybe the breakout name of the year in officiating. He's been officiating for a long time. He's been a long time, but a lot of people this year became real familiar with Chris Tionni's name.

And you don't want that. You know, you don't want that. You want to be commended for doing a good job, like maybe by the end of the year. But on a nightly basis, if your name keeps popping up, it's just a terrible thing to do. So I know, and I know that's a bad excuse for not doing your job, right? If people are saying, well, their job has been forced the rules, they shouldn't necessarily care about their egos and whether, you know, they get called out for a deducting a point.

But it's definitely much easier said than done. And again, unless people want to see more draws, which fans definitely don't like. I still laugh whenever fans like boo a draw. That's always fine. That's a weird thing to do. But I know fans don't want that. You're going to see a lot of draws if you see these deductions. So yes, I do think they should penalize more frequently.

And I think if you penalize more frequently, I'm kind of of that old school mentality. accidents stop happening when you crank up the penalties. That might be a little kind of a grim, mean thing to say. But I do think you'd see you'd see guys less eye pokes, definitely less fence grabbing. If it was immediate point, if you grab the fence, you would definitely see less fence grabbing.

Yeah, you get to see it. You still have a few instinctual ones. Guys are going down, they're going to grab on. But for the most part, guys know then get away with this thing. I'm going to do it. Same with eye kick. Same with like groin kicks and eye pokes. So I'm for more penalized.

but to answer the question as Casey just agree with Casey you can see the psychology behind not wanting to do it real quick you don't want to end up in a Dana scrum just getting lamb bastard I threw this out there and it's on Twitter and it's an idea I've been pushing I really really think

there should be half point deductions you got if it figure because that doesn't change the fight but that is a real warning a half point deduction. Because normally we get like points scoring in general. That's another thing. Yeah.

It's a 20 point system. Not a 10 point system, right? I would love half point deductions for like a accidental growing shots, accidental I pokes. And I think that will, that's a stiff penalty. But it's a stiff penalty that doesn't affect the fight yet. So I like it. All right.

football 365 Mo or M-O Thank you If Cynthia can't beat you Kagan How can she expect a title shot anytime soon I don't think she is expecting a title shot Is it a question or a statement I guess it may be rewarded

What does Cynthia Cavillo need to do Now to get a title shot She needs to win like three fights at a row Yeah Is that where Three fights in a row is it like one if she beats if save they book her against Lauren Murphy just say that happened is being dominating Lauren Murphy erase this loss I guess that's one no no no she'll

have to win another one to two yeah two top five maybe two three three oh I mean I mean it depends like Jennifer Maya submitted Joanne Calderwood on super short notice and earned a title shot despite losing her last couple of fights so I mean I guess anything could happen I guess it depends on how she does it. Like she goes out there and if she fights Lauren Murphy and starches her and knocks her out in like 90 seconds. Yeah. Yeah.

She gets up there because she's a fresh face if Schochenko beats Jessica Androge, which seems to be the plan right now. So yeah, that would be something. But I don't know. I, I don't. There's heat between Calvio and Murphy. I think, unfortunately, I don't think they can make that fight now. I think it's Androge Murphy or. or it's Murphy Chukagian in the rematch.

You got a story there. They fought before. Chichagian won on short notice. They're up at 135. They're both completely different fighters right now. Those are the two options for Murphy. And then Calvio is an interesting spy right now. Maybe they just throw her in there with Antonina at this point.

I don't want to see that. But maybe that's what they do. That's just the first name you thought of because you saw it tonight. I know what you mean. Yeah. And by the way, let me just say this real quick. Anthony Shepchenko, great performance tonight. Awesome.

Really well done. She impressed me a lot. I think she may have impressed me more than anybody on the card tonight, considering the expectations I had only just based on like the expectations I had for her because I've said many times on onto the next one. Like I didn't want to see her in there with like anybody even sniffing the top 15. I just didn't want to see it. I wanted to see them build her up.

I thought Ariane Olipski was a difficult matchup. Most of us picked the upset. Most people on Twitter picked the up. upset by Shevchenko took her to the ground, beat her up, looked great. She looked outstanding. Whatever improvements you needed to make after the Chagagan fight, she made him and then some. So good on her. I'll just go, just to go back to the original question for a second, I'll just say,

besides the odds of what we said, she needs to be another contender. And yeah, and do so an impressive fashion. Her trajectory of her career has always just been kind of weird because she came into the UFC with a ton of hype, even though she was, she was three and O coming to the UFC, but she came in with a lot of hype. Heaming with a lot of hype. Kind of lived up to it for a bit. You know, good in interviews, winning fights, most importantly.

And then stumbling against, again, Carlos Sparza, no shame in that. A draw against Marina Rodriguez. And, of course, stumbling on the scale, which is probably one of the biggest, the bigger issue. And now she said to move up to 125. And then she, but she beats Jessica I in her first fight, 125. Jessica is a recent flyweight title challenger. And I think was either number, I think was number two. or maybe number one.

I don't know if I remember she was behind Chagin at that point, but she was at no lower than number two. And then Calvio took that spot. So now she is in this weird situation where, and this kind of where I think the basis of this question is, expect her to eventually get a title shot someday still, despite the fact that the results haven't always been there. So I think, really, I would say people need to scale back to expectations of Calvio.

I agree she's maybe at least two fights away. Honestly, even if she did score like a crazy knockout of Lauren Murphy, I really wouldn't want to see her get the title shot right away. I want to hope that someone else would emerge as a fresh challenger should that scenario unfold. And that'd be like six months from now, right? So I think two fights away is the right way to write the right number. Yeah, they, and plus Dana White said defend the title. Obviously, Zhang Wei, they're going to book her in Rosnami Yunus soon.

And Dana White wants to see Zhang Wei v. versus Valentina Shepchenko at some point. That is the weirdest. Is he the only person in the war that's really trying to sell that fight right now, Waley versus Shepchenko? When Waley has so many competitors right now at Starweight, I just don't get it. So many.

So many. Starweight is like the thickest division. You know, the most stacked division in women's. And like you're like, now you have a new champ. And you just, ah, just go try to get two belts now. I don't get it. I don't get it. That's every division.

They're obsessed with super fights now. You may, we may never again, like, I was, I was thinking, I was going to tweet something on like, man, a figurato just sticks with it. He could easily, you know, run off six, seven, eight consecutive title fights. And I'm like, he's never going to get that opportunity. He's two more title fights at most, the title defense at most, they're going to insist he try and do something 135, you know? And even if it doesn't materialize, it'll put the wheels in motion and eventually he's

going to go up. So it's, I know, I think a lot of fans like me, they miss the days when there was just a steady stream of title challenges. Not always the most exciting fights. You know, Anderson Silva, Talas Laitis, Patrick Cote, okay, whatever, whatever, whatever, but it's part of that when we look back on these guys and we say, man, remember that 10 fight, 10 straight championship defenses for silver, 10 straight for GSP, whatever the number is. It's, we don't care to say about every individual person that was in there. We remember the number and they remember the biggest wins in there. And it sucks that a lot of these guys aren't allowed

to build up their runs that way. And I think Chupchenko should. I think Shepchenko is, is on that way where she has like signature wins like Yawanna, Jessica Andrage could be added to that, and then and then has, you know, whatever, something, you know, some forgettable ones like Carmoosh and things like that. She has a highlight with the head kick of just guy. So I wish they would just let people build things up the old fashioned way. But it's just not how things are done anymore. It's odd. Oh, AK, you're loving this question. No, I'll be, read it out. Go ahead. Mike, read that. What is next for Mike Perry, AK? I've made very public my disdain for Mike Perry.

I think his person, I've never liked his personality. Talented fighter, undeniable, let me put this way, undeniable, talented fighter, and has a real instinct for it. There's some people who are just really good at something. I don't know if Mike Perry could have excelled to any other sport. Who knows, maybe if he applied himself differently, he could have been a great football player. I don't know. But I'll tell you this, he has a knack for fighting.

Okay, I'm never going to deny that. but the way he presents itself really irritates me. Of course, there's the allegations from his ex-wife, Daniel Nickerson, which I think should be taken very seriously, regardless of which parts of it you believe to be true. If you guys haven't missed that, there's a great write-up in M. Mae Junkie about some of the allegations against him. And again, based on his behavior, let's not forget some of the other run-ins he had with the law, it's believable.

Okay, so I do not like Mike Perry. I don't want to kick someone when they're down. He fought really well tonight. And he lost, he lost, I think a pretty clear decision to Tim Means. So I do think he should be cut. And I don't say that at L.A. So, again, I've explained I do have a bias. I don't look the guy.

But I also think most people don't sort out their lives in the public eye. They need to be taken away from this situation that's, I think, causing them a lot of stress and causing them a lot of internal conflict and turmoil. Let's not forget, he missed weight by four and a half pounds. So that's part of his job. So regardless of what you think of what you think of. of his personal life. Even if you go like,

oh, I don't care about that stuff, he missed weight by four and a half pounds. That's part of his job as a fighter. So if you care about him just as a fighter, he effed up, okay? That's,

that there's no arguing that. And he, I think he's, I just think he needs to step away from fighting. He needs to seek professional help. And I mean this, again, in a positive way,

this is, I don't want to condemn him. I don't think, I've seen some comments there. He had to reply to one where someone was essentially saying he should like, you know,

kill himself. And I think that's horrible. I wouldn't wish that upon him. I wouldn't wish him on anybody. But he needs to, I can step away, get professional help. Focus on his family life. He has a child on the way. Focus on his relationship with Latori, Leroy, Leroy Gonzalez, his fiancee.

But fighting right now, I think, is not for him. We saw the string of check out his tweets. Check out some of the tweets he said during the weight cut. Very, very distressing stuff. So what's next? I hope not another fight in the EOC. But realistically, I don't see him getting cut. That was a fight of the night worthy performance.

They didn't get the award. But it could have been up there. I do think they give him another fight. Who, I don't know, I don't care. I don't even want to speculate. I would rather he not compete for a while and really try and fix his life. Well, I think the first step is if he sticks around, he's got a, his next fight has to be 185, right? Like, we can't, we can't do this again.

We can't do this again. Like, even if he says, like, I'm taking this seriously. Like, he even said it himself, like, I think, I need to go up to 185. And there's some fun matches for him at 185. Like the dude is a scrapper. You throw him in there with like any of these guys, they're going to sit there and throw the vangs at him and vice versa. So I mean, if Kevin, if Kevin Holland loses to Jack Hermanson,

you could do Perry versus Holland. Sure. I'm fine with that. Holland wants it, Holland wants that fight bad. The scary thing is, Perry fighting on a big. Yeah.

Yeah, that's just Perry fighting on his reputation. He doesn't deserve the fight a guy like Holland, but I understand what you're saying for the names. Right. His name. Well, you're giving it to Kevin. You're giving it to Holland. That's what, that's fight Holland wants.

And listen, Dana White was asked about Mike Perry at the press conference. Thanks Mike Perry is a very entertaining guy. And people would watch that fight. Mike Perry draws a lot of eyeballs. People want to watch, like, hear what he has to say. It's just the way that it is. Look, there's aspects of his personality that is a fighter that I understand are attractive and intriguing to people.

people. I totally understand it. Even let's let's let's just say it. Coming out to supposedly the wrong walkout music tonight, I think they said he wasn't supposed to come out to Halo by Beyonce and he just went with it. And again, if that was any other fighter, I would have thought that was hilarious. It's just in the wake of all these other things that I find so distasteful about him. I couldn't enjoy it. But again, if people did, how can I blame them?

You know, I understand what it is about him that people find intriguing. He is certainly a memorable personality for better or worse. And in the fight game, that takes you a long way, especially when, again, you have as much talent as he does, which I do think he is a talented fighter. So really, when I criticize, I do it from a place of, it sounds corny. I do it.

I do do it from a place of love, though. I do, I do this is someone who I do. I would want to see fictionalize, not just for his sake, his fiancee, his soon-to-be, his baby that he's soon to have. They created a new human being. A new person is part of this world.

So Mike Perry, please get your life together. Yeah, everyone who supported him and pushed him on. Again, I'm sure he's like a lot of parties who've got a hard upbringing. But guess what? You're an adult now. You're at this point where there's actually probably a lot of people who are supporting you and who are rooting for you and want to see you do well. I'd say probably more than wish you ill, more people than me.

There's probably for every one of me who's critical, there's like a hundred people who are like, man, I love Mike Perry and I want to see him do well. So listen to those people and fix your life for them. Don't worry about people like me. fix your life for the people who love you and support you, like unconditionally because, frankly, they're not going to be there forever. And I hope it doesn't end up hurting anyone. I mean, I've talked to a lot of people and I've experienced this myself. Like, when you're in that delivery room and you see your child born, there's a switch that just immediately flips on,

like for you. And you're just like, oh, everything changes. So maybe that happens to him. And I hope it does. I hope it does. Fingers crossed. Moving on, Free Bobby. How would you judge Roy Val and Buckley's ceilings to really interesting fighters. Nice to see Brandon Royval getting mentioned in this in this conversation. So, AK, we'll begin with you. We started you off on the Perry one. We'll start you off with one half of Brandon on Brandon.

And of course, Joaquin Buckley with another performance of the night tonight, another vicious knockout of one Jordan Wright. So we'll start with Brandon Royval. How would you judge Brandon Royval's ceiling? Two very, I mean, obviously a very interesting fighter, very unique fighter. a tough night for him at the office tonight. Brandon Moreno gets the win. Now he's going to fight for the belt in about three weeks time.

So where would you put Royval's ceiling at this point? I mean, Roeval could be a world champion. I mean, I don't think that's a controversial statement at all. He's already beaten top 10 guys. He's beaten Tom Elliott, you know, who fought for the title before. He's beating Kai Kar, France.

So any finishes people. So he is a very, I'm just looking at this ratio right now. He has 11 career finishes in his season. He has 12 wins. 11 finishes, 8 by submission, and only one decision. You won't find a lot of fighters at 125 pounds who don't have either way more decisions than they have finishes or kind of a more even split like five knockouts, five submissions, five decisions. So that's rare. There's a little bit of excitement he brings.

Tonight it wasn't his night, not even just because the injury. I think Moreno, you know, it's Moreno outfought him. I think he did the damage. And I believe it was actually called a TKO, not because of the injury, at least for that's what I think what Mark got her clarified after though it's hard for me to imagine the fight continuing even if they had kind of reset his shoulder in between rounds. So Royval,

the ceiling is easy, I think, could be a world champion. This is the kind of loss he's going to learn from. Hopefully, that it'd be whatever happened to the shoulder, there's not a persistent issue. And yeah, I don't think this is the last time you see him in a number one contenders fight and then eventually competing for a world title. I would agree with you on that.

And Brenner Ravel is he's 28 years old, just became a full-time fighter after his UFC debut because he got the bonus and quit his job. He was working like overnights at a juvenile detention center. So a guy like barely slept. And he looked pretty good early on. Moreno, one thing that stuck up from my conversation with Moreno is like, listen, don't sleep on my jiu-jitsu. I know Roy Valles is really good, but don't sleep on mine. And he looked and Moreno delivered in a big way. And I think one thing people love about Roy Valles, he's such a risk taker. The guy will take chances to get a finish. He'll absolutely

do it. And I think in a weird way, I think tonight is going to be so beneficial for him. I think this is going to be one of those things where one of the things that's kind of held Brenner-Royval back is to like the confidence that he has in himself. Like he's very, very hard on himself. And I think going through a fight like that, having the opportunity he had and, you know, coming up short, and there's kind of a way where you could say like, listen, it was the shoulder. I was fine. Marina was hitting me. I hung in there and gave the man a good fight. And, you know, ended in an unfortunate way. I think if Brennan-Royval like takes this with, you know,

takes this in stride and and uses it to his advantage and grows from it, I think this could be a really good thing at the end of the day for him. But we'll see. He's definitely an exciting talent. I think as long as the UFC keeps the men's flyweight division, he's going to be a name for a while. He's 29. He's just, just by hitting his prime.

just now becoming a full-time fighter. I mean, it's just, it's so stupid to think that how we can have guys be almost the top five, when the top five or ten best in the world of what they do, and they still have a second job. Actually, fighting is their second job, that's not even the primary job. But they love selling that, though. They love selling that.

Can you believe he's a world title contender and also like a fry cook on the side? It's only in America. It's the American dream. It's the American dream. And he has five kids. us take care of? How does he do it? How does it do it?

The fact that some of the best fighters in the world still have roommates. I mean, can you imagine any, dude, like, the backup shortstop on the worst team in the Major League Baseball, dude, he's making a million bucks. We're not shaming anyone, by the way, if you have a roommate, if you have, like, or, you know, whatever your living situation is. But theoretically, if you're in the highest level of a, a, uh, a, pro sport in North America, you're usually living a little more comfortably. That's all we're saying.

I'm not trying to make judgment anyone's life. So the fact that Roy Vow just now is making enough money that he can just dedicate his life to the fighting part is exciting. And he's awesome. He's just he's super duper. And tonight, even though he had a loss, just being a badass and like being all was like Mel Gibson and lethal weapon like shoo. Oh, rigs?

Just rigs? Riggs, yeah. Just pop it back in. That was just super duper. And hopefully it's not like a long-term injury or something can be fixed. It can be fixed. Just hope it's not a long-term injury. But, no, I'm super excited at a Roval.

I know Mike was super high. I mean, he sold me on him too. And he's good on the mic. Good everywhere. Just a fun dude. And I'm super excited about him. He'll be fine. Yeah, he's fine.

Someone had to lose that fight. He'll be fine. Someone had to lose, right? I was so, me, outside of the championship fights, that was the most, that was the fight I was looking forward for, looking forward to all week without it out. So I was, I was bummed to end it that way.

I was like, ah, I wanted more, one more. But, you know, how it is. Yeah. I mean, if, if, if someone told me, like, if they were giving their 20, 21 predictions, and you said, my predictions is Brandon Royval fights for the flyway title in 2021, wouldn't argue with you. Yeah, wouldn't argue with you.

It's very possible. But what about Buckley? What about Joaquin, Buckley, who impacus Agonai knockout, he'll never top that. If he does, then, oh, my God. Warren, for some something very special. But this was a, this was some knockout too. This is vicious against Jordan Wright, handed him his first loss.

And I know a lot of people kind of question the resume of Jordan Wright heading in. But Wright had his moments. He looked pretty good at times. He was landing shots too. But Buckley, man, that dude just throws fire every single time, gets another win. So, honestly, I think if we're comparing the two, I think Roy, ceiling is higher than Buckley's. I think Buckley is an exciting guy.

And who knows? Maybe I'm wrong about that. But Casey, where would you put Joachim Buckley's ceiling? I never, I don't see him breaking top 10. I see him, I see him being a very good action fighter and he'll be around. Much like Mike Perry in the cage in the sense that Mike Perry isn't a high-ranked Walter weight or whatever, whatever way he fights at now. But he's going to be a guy.

He's always going to be in highlight rails. With all these UFC fight nights, all these seeming like, it seems that he can make 85 very easily. As long as he doesn't take any heavy damage, he's a guy will see four times the air at least. What he went off for? Doubtful. He'll win two of them and it will be hell of a hell exciting. And that's what I expect from him. I think he's going to be that guy who leads into pay-per-views, the first fight in a pay-per-view.

you know, the first fight on a main card on a fight night. You know, he's easy to sell. He looks apart, and that's what I see from him. If I'm wrong, cool. A.K., he's done fine at middleweight. Had a fun fight with Kevin Holland. Of course, the two knockouts. I feel like his future's at 170, though.

That's just my take. What do you think? What would you put his ceiling? He looked small tonight. He looked real small. Jordan Wright, as we said, was doing a really good job using his length to kind of back Holland off. And again, Holland's a great striker. He has so much power.

He eventually figured out and just made his way in. But he has to be considering 170 because he looked under sides. He didn't look, even with Kevin Holland, the Kevin Holland fight. They look like two guys in different weight classes, which is what they are. Even though Holland, I know, could also make a compete at 170. But he looks smaller than Holland as well. So 170 is definitely his future. I agree with Casey.

I think his ceiling as far as star power goes is pretty high. And as far as someone who could piece together a nice like 15, 16 fight career in the UFC, someone who's a fan favorite, yeah, he could be up there. Now, again, someone who competes for a title, it's really hard to say. I just don't, it's really hard to say based on a level of competition he's faced. He's been facing other talented people, but no one really proven yet. I think Kevin Hollins, maybe the best person he fought. He lost that fight, though it was an exciting performance.

Before that, he fought Logan Storley. And Bellator, he lost that fight as well. Longstorley is also a very good fighter. he just hasn't excelled, I think, against the best competition yet, which is why the James Krause fight is so important that he gets that. Because that fight win or lose, just the buildup to it could propel him to another level of stardom. But I don't think, yeah, he ever gets higher than like number eight, number nine, number 10. And that would be almost like with a Uriahawish situation where like he knocks out someone not expected knock.

Like, you know, when Uriahaw beat Musashi and went from like outside the top 10 to like number, six or seven or something overnight. I can see Buckley getting a knockout like that and entering the top 10 that way. But as far as Pundi-a-old, like a solid like five, six, seven-fight win streak that gets them up ranked and near Telshod that way. I just don't know if his style is conducive for that. So, you know, hey, new man's not prove us wrong. But yeah, his ceiling as a competitor, I think is somewhat limited.

I'm trying to imagine Israel-Ad-Sanya versus Joaquin Buckley. I just don't see it yet. So no. But, yeah. And some people forget or don't really know. But Buckley spent almost this entire career at 170 pounds. So like him going to 170, this isn't like a new drop for him. That's where he's pretty much always fought.

So like a lot of people are like, well, James Krause can go up to 185. Buckley's like, nah, dude, I'll go to 170 and fight that guy and vice versa. So I think that is the fight to make 100%. Like you have to make that fight. And by the way. way, let me just say this, you can thank MMA fighting for that fight happening. Okay. We set the table.

We started it all, all right? I interviewed Joaquin Buckley. I said, what do you want next? He talked about James Krause. He said there was a DM, okay? Jose Young's took that ball and ran with it at that post-fight press conference after he beat Claudio Silva. And Krause cut that promo and then everything just took off.

So you're welcome, world, if that fight gets booked, which it should get booked. I tried to stop the fight because I wanted Buckley and Krause to be friends. Remember, I was, when Mike had a, Mike spoke to Krause on what the hell. I sent him questions before. I said, I said, Mike, are we sure there's not a misunderstanding? Maybe some accidental fake Buckley account

that sent messages to Kraus and angered him. So we dug deep. I tried to stop this. We covered all angles of this. I tried to stop the fight. This is how we know it's real. This is how we know this is a real, real feud because we really dug.

This was not manufacturer. This was real. But yeah, the interest is definitely there. And like you said, MMA fighting was on top of it. Our editor told us, after that speech, after Buckley kind of did that cryptic post-fight speech, like, I'm going to call on the sky, I really want. I'm not saying who it is. And then Rogan said, we know you're talking about James Krause.

Apparently, a lot of people hit the Google machine and Google, you know, Joaquin Buckley, James Cross, see what was up. And sure enough, our coverage is what came up first. And apparently there's a lot of traffic coming back in on some of those older interviews. So, yes, you're welcome, world. Thank you, Joaquin. Thank you very much. Thank you, Joaquin.

Thank you for giving us a little push. So, yes, too exciting guys. I'm going to try something because we're at the 55 minute mark right now. And we have lots of questions, but we can't, we got to fly through them. So what I'm going to do is actually bring up the old BTL clock. We have a one minute, one minute timer. So we fly through these questions. Here we go.

Ooh, did Daniel Rodriguez get robbed, AK? No, no, no, no. If you listen to the commentary, yeah, he got robbed. But no, it was a competitive fight. I think someone brought up the, like the unofficial striking numbers after as evidence that that Rodriguez may have had, you know, had reason to be feeling like he got one taken away from. But I'll have to see the official stats. I'm going to check that right now.

So you can take, you can end my time now. Okay, short, I'm going to check the stats. MMA decisions had this split 50-50 by the media. Sure. After the media had a book, Dalby, yeah, not a robbery, not robbery. I think we're good on this one. I thought Rodriguez won, but definitely not a robbery. Good on Dalby.

That was a good win. That's a real good win for him. All right. Rodriguez, by the way, 83 significant strikes to 50 for Dalby, and he statistically outstruck him significant strikes every round. But I think watching that fight, it's one of those ones where some of those significant strikes, they're not all equal,

let's put it that way. So, yeah, I agree. You know Robert. I can't move my clock. That's okay. Clock stuck there or whatever. Is Chaos Williams, Michelle Perjada, the best book fight of 2020?

If not who? Man, it's hard to, it's hard to not put Brandon on Brandon up there just because A.K. puts so much love into that. Oh, Brandon on Brandon. We lost Neil on Neal. That would have been up there. But Chaos Williams versus the human embodiment of chaos, Michelle Pereira,

it rolls right off the tongue. It's such a beautiful matchup. And one that I think we had definitely brought up, and some of the readers had brought up on our recent episode on to the next one. So fantastic. The only thing to beat it is somehow it gets booked for the end of the year is if we get Bryce Mitchell and Ryan Hall. That would be the best booked fight of 2020.

We should also give a shout out to Zombie and Ortega. I guess it doesn't feel like a 2020 fight because it was booked previously. I guess there's a book for December of last year technically and ended up happening this year but I mean I think Ortega zombie would have to be there but yeah William Spurrah I'll bite on that yeah amazing booking It's a great fight great fight

Casey you can go a little overtime No no no no we can no I know I know Why do we have a clock? Yes we have rules You guys know I love rules By the way I love rules The answer is Shimaa versus Leon Edwards By the way that's that's correct answer

Oh really Yeah it's so brilliant It's just so brilliant. It did solve a lot of problems. A.K.A. Thoughts on Jeff Neal v. Wonderboy and Font versus Berez. Two big jumps up in competition for guys, and especially for Neil, could be a big break. What's A.K.A. thoughts. Oh, I think also.

Yeah, not you. Just answer the question. Also known as thoughts on Jehiel versus Wonderboy and Font versus Marais. They're great. Like I said, I'm savvy. Missed on Neil on Neil. I'm a little surprised that this is the fight. Because wasn't Wonderboy being picky about some of his matchups?

He wanted Leon Edwards. Yeah. That's the fight he wanted. Yeah, and it was, oh, it was Leon who didn't want to fight him. Yeah, Leon didn't see him all that interesting. Yeah, yeah. So the Jeff Neal matchups are a good one. Definitely more for Neil than Wonderboy, but, look, Wonderboy's got to fight someone eventually,

and he might not get him in the top ten. So instead he has to fight a guy who's probably going to try and take his spot, but I like it. Font and Moray. great out routine for Rob Fon and I think he is deserving of a big leap up in competition like that. So yeah, I love it. All right. Yep, me too. Love both of them. Thank you, Brick Squad.

That's a badass name right there. Oh, I saw it earlier. I flew by it, but are we going to start calling? What's Figuerreta's his official nickname, God of War? His name, Deus Stegerra. God of war, right? They used to get it, yeah. Yeah.

I think, but I think we're going to, like, his like, secondary nickname will be Figgie Smalls, right? Figgy Smalls is very good. I'm, I'm into that. I'm into, you know what I'm a resistor against, I've never been a fan of Bobby Knuckles, a fan, that, which is one of the fan-made nicknames. Uh, I think Michael Keesa is on social media right now saying, saying he created Ficky Smalls, and I'm into it. I'm into it. Okay, good. I like it.

But, but, but wasn't it, uh, he, wasn't it, wasn't it his opponent who came out to, to Biggie? Didn't Perez come on to the juicy? So it's a little confusing. The branding is a little confusing, but I like it. I don't know. I'm kind of at the point where like I finally can spell Figuerado's name, like when I write up articles without having to look it up. I'm like, I finally got it.

When I made the graph, the little graphic you see on the screen at the top, I must have looked at, I must have looked at that like 40 times. I'm still convinced it's misspelled. I'm still convinced like back here. Here's a tip. Here's a tip for all you writers out there. So Figurato, for one thing, in both his, well, let's, okay, there's two things that'll help you.

One, the I always goes after the first E in both of his names, his first and last name, okay? And the Figidato part, it's easy to remember if you divide it into fig you, if you say figu, Iredo, figu, Iredo, and then, that's not how it's pronounced, but if you want out to spell it, this is, what time is it right now? This is a spelling lesson almost four in the, morning, East Coast time.

That's what the people are asking for right now. That's what people want. Figue Irido. So the first part in the lighting round. Yeah, there's not really an easy way to remember that. But the second part, which I know a lot of people have trouble with, as do I, that there's your trick. Figue, Irido.

What do you think about an all women's MMA card? First Saturday in March kicks off with International Women's Week. UNES versus Anderson, Chevchenko versus Androj, Sean versus Nama Yunus. Interesting idea. But you don't, but you don't even need to have the, trio of title fights. That's probably what the U.S. would want to do, definitely, but I've never been a fan of three, three championships

fights on one card. I think the only time it turned out well was, what was the GSP 217? The clock is moving, AK, come on. Help me, help me. Bring out your inner Jose Young, is it was 217, right? That was, that was, I should remember this is one my freaking 12-5.

20-5 in three title fights. Was it? MSG card? The two. We don't need one. It was, that's not the focus of the question. and Yowanna Kovakov. Oh, yes, yes.

And those fights were not super great. McGregor Alvarez, obviously, super exciting, but Woodley Wonder Boy was okay. I remember one fight of the death. You got a fight at night. You got a fight in the night. It wasn't a fight. Answer the question.

Answer the question, man. We're talking about women's MMA. You're talking about Diane Woody right now. Oh, my God, we've only had 10 seconds. You know, I love the idea of an all-women's card. It's a shame it hasn't happened yet, though there was a whole promotion called Invicta FC that you can watch on UFC Fight Fast and get all women's cards all the time, guys. But I love it. I don't think it needs three title fights, but definitely two.

Yeah, you probably need at least two. Dude, the last Victor card was freaking awesome. The one that was on Friday night, that was a good card. And oh my goodness. What was the young lady's name, the hurricane? I told you about my-chase. Chase? Hooper, Hoop Chase is mental.

Good Lord. That might not be a politically correct thing to say. She is mental. and the best. There's a little bit of Clay Guida in there, but maybe more psycho. Oh, more intense? I was sold. I was like, yes. Signed this lady. Stephanie Geltmacher fought in that car. She had a big knockout. She is so good. It was like Invicta and Vickda kind of had that Belliger thing where they kind of had some bad luck. Good card, good cards and the paper. It just didn't turn out. And this was nice car on paper. Kayla Harrison obviously did her thing.

That was like, oh my God. Even her opponents of blood? Yeah. That was something. You know, I always say, oh, no, that was a girl stoppage. You know, that was a girl stoppage. That was not a girl stoppage. Man, that was like, that was like, I don't like that woman. She must like that.

That was so. It wouldn't have been a girl. It wouldn't have been a girl stoppage if they stopped in the first round like they should have. It should have. That was a. And Kenna Harrison is great. Watching Victor people. Kenna Harrison with elbows on the ground.

Awesome. We look great at 45. Look awesome at 45. Watching Victor. Watch in Victor. UFC bypass. Let's do a couple more questions before we can go to sleep. Start prepping for on to the next one.

Oh, yeah. Just cause. Okay, real quick. Talk about tonight's card. Do you like Jessica's chances against Valentina better now? Hmm. I never thought she didn't have a good chance. I mean, I would certainly pick Valentina.

But it's one of those fights where I think I would be shocked at the odds were that much higher than maybe minus 200 for Valentina. I would be surprised. I thought the odds for Meyer were completely insane. It got as high as the, what do they say? Minutes $2,000 favorite? Minus 2,500 it got to one side. I kept hearing people say it was essentially the most lopsided betting title fight in UFC history.

I'm not sure that's true, but it felt like that. I mean, it felt like that was what people were talking about. Yeah, thank you, Joshua Kerry. To really address the question, I didn't. see anything, I didn't see any, like, weaknesses in Shepchenko's game tonight. It's not like I saw anything, just because Maya was competitive. It didn't make me think like, oh, Shepchenko's not as good. No, Shavchenko, if anything, this is one of those fights where you love to see them fight through a little bit of early adversity and show why they're champion. Any champion can, you know, can dominate

against the weaker competition and can be a front runner. It's when you have those rounds were like, damn, like, you know, you clearly lost that round, you know, round two. And then you come back and do the opposite. You clearly win the last three. That's what champions are made of, not always exciting finishes, not always 50-45s, 50-44s all the time. So I always liked Andrade's chances, so I'll say I don't like them anymore now than I did before. I love the fight. Same. Yeah, same.

I know, I know it was supposed to be this whole one-minute thing. But I love how Valentina is on that Habib level in the sense that if she gets hit one time, you go, you know, I think she lost that round. You know? It's like, like, like, she got held down by Maya for one round. and like it reminded me of when Michael Johnson how dare he he punched to be once and then if you listen to commentary Rogan's like, Habib's hurt, Habib's hurt, he's really hurt

and this is like wow, like Johnson's getting like just grounded you know, just pounded but it's interesting how Ballantina is on that level right now in a sense that not popularity-wise but as far as like what we expect from her she gets touched once you're like I don't know I think she's lost it I don't know that I think I think she's overlooking her opponent hit that live betting I got to get it

a live betting if And if Andrage touches you If Androge is lining those punches That's what makes things interesting about that fight Because I mean

I would favor Valentina I'd feel very confident In picking Valentina in that fight Because she's just such an intelligent striker and she would use her range Very very well And we've seen Yoani and Jacek

We've seen Rosnami Unis Use their range very well Against Androge And look really good Of course And And Androj had the slam from hell against Ndmi Unus in the first fight, but we saw it happen in the second fight. But Androge is always dangerous. So there is some intrigue there for sure.

But I, same chances are, at least in my mind, the same as they were coming into tonight. Yeah. Here's my question. Why are the viewership numbers going up? What is going on people? I think people are waking up. People are waking up. We have people in other times those watching.

Bless you people just joining us. So bless you all just joining us. And bless you guys who have stuck with us throughout the night. You guys are, you guys are the best. I can't, I know I'm a broken record to say this every show, but people, anyone who tunes into these post-fight shows live and anyone who watches later as well, of course, you guys are the best. Just because he's a long-time commentary, I just want to throw Al Mack on the screen. Stop calling close fights or robbery. Amen, of course.

Amen, Al Mack. Absolutely. Amen. That is the theme of my robbery review features that should be seen regularly on anime fighting, though not my last one, which I think I screwed up, the GSB Hendricks fight. If you guys haven't read that one, read it and tell me what an idiot I am. Yes, and I, yes, amen to that too, Al Mack. Okay. You know what?

You know what I'm going to do right now? I was going to say, that's a good question to end on. Dude, you could just put a quick. Thank you. Yes, play us off. Oh, they're playing us off the stage. Sorry, we would love to answer more questions, but they are playing. I apologize.

This is the overtime music. That means we're going an extra hour. Oh, no. No, I'm just kidding. That's it. Listen, we've been talking about this for a while. The press conference stream, you know what I mean. It took forever.

Just a long night. But we appreciate you guys joining us. Any final thoughts, A.K., before we say goodbye. No, it is 4 a.m. I'll agree. To acknowledge that last question, yeah. Yeah, it's 4 a.m. on the East Coast. Even on the West Coast, it's 1 a.m. on a Saturday. You should have to be either, well, I just saying out partying, though.

We can't do that these times. But you should either be chilling and watching a movie or I guess you're staying up with us and I can't complain. Or I'm under curfew. I can't leave this house. This is true. There's really not much else to do than hang out with us. It's a tyranny out there. It's a dictatorship, guys.

It's a dictatorship, guys. Next week, what's going on next week's card? Curtis. Blades v. Louis. Shoof. In the tiny cage, in the small cage. What else is on the main card?

Well, we have plenty of time talking about that. We have plenty of time. We have between the links. We hear all about them between the legs. Great. Yes. So there's only four cards left for 2020 for the UFC. We've just gone on this incredible run before fight cards left.

And it all ends December 19th. That fight card is bananas. Are there any more about that? Yep. December 10th. December 10th. What is that? That is a Limele-McFarlane versus Julianne-A-Balaska.

The other flyweight. Fly-weight December. It's not December yet. Whatever, you know, I mean. Giuliana Valasca has finally got the title shot for the love of God. She's a service title shot about two years now. Flyweight's rule. We know this.

This is not a secret. And it was definitely a lot of great flyweight action tonight. We did. That's right. We sure did. All right. We are out of here for Casey Leiden, A.K. Lee.

I am Mike Heck. Normally I would say good night, everybody. But good morning, everybody. Good morning. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.