MMA Fighting - UFC 257 Post-Fight Show

Episode Date: January 24, 2021

With UFC 257 in the books, MMA Fighting’s Mike Heck, Alexander K. Lee and E. Casey Leydon break down the top storylines following Saturday night’s event in Abu Dhabi, including a pair of memorable finishes in the lightweight main and co-main events. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Alexander K. Lee: @AlexanderKLee Follow E. Casey Leydon: @ekc Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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We're going to hear from all of you. We heard from all the taste makers. From tonight's event, we heard from Michael Chandler. We heard from Connor McGregor. We heard from Dustin Bore. We heard from Dana White. And now it is time to hear from all of you. Thank you for joining us, especially.

you guys on the East Coast, 2.42 a.m. You crazy people. We appreciate it. I am Mike Heck, being joined by the Prince of Positivity, Alex K. Lee. Hello, sir. Yeah, let's go. Let's go. It's early. What are we doing?

Three hours? I think three hour post-by show? We're an event like this, so it would make sense. We're not going to do that, but it would make sense. And then we have E. Casey Liden, producer extraordinaire, joining us as well. Duval. Oh, shout us to do ball. Yes.

And I'm the only one wearing a suit. I hung up on our post-fight chat at the end. After the Q&A case, like, everyone kind of like dress up for the post-fight show. And then I was like, all right, I got to go. And apparently dress up was like just wear a shirt with a collar on, which I had already done anyways. But I'm way overdressed for the occasion.

But it is what it is. No, you look fantastic. You look fantastic. Yeah. I had to grab, like, something before my... My wife went to sleep, and this is the first thing I grabbed. So here we are. Listen, if you're here watching right now, this is your show, okay?

We've talked about a lot of this stuff. We want to hear what you're thinking in regards to Porre's big win, Michael Chandler's outstanding debut, anything that you want to talk about, let us know. We'll answer your questions for the next 30 to 40 minutes, and then we'll try to catch some shut eye. But AK, before the questions come in, your thoughts on some Porre's big win over Connor McGregor, because what an outstanding performance, a shining moment for the diamonds. What do you think?

Amazing. Amazing. Shut me up. I tell you, I thought even though it was six years after their first fight, just the way their careers had both trended, I still thought stylistically, I'm like,

it's a pretty good matchup for McGregor. I think Porre gets hit a lot, and McGregor, when he hits people, they go down. I know that's a pretty basic casual analysis, but that's really how I viewed it. I did say in my predictions,

I'm like, you know, if Porre came out a little more tactically and uses this grappling, then it could be, you know, it could change things up a bit. But I was still surprised that he put, he put McGregor win second round. I also, you know, kind of bought into the conventional narrative that, oh, well, if it's a McGregor win, it'll happen early. It's a Porre win. It'll happen fourth, fifth round after he wears McGregor down. And it was kind of true.

It's just that he wore McGregor down a lot faster than I could have imagined. The calf kicks were just brutal. I do think the grappling that he did in the first round. out helped. I think it set the tone. I think it threw McGregor off. It was just a brilliant, brilliant game plan by Porre. And he couldn't have looked better. This is probably the most watched. I guess we're going to compare with the Khabib numbers. But this, I would imagine, it might be the most watched fight that Forreys ever had, assuming that ESPN Plus got working around that time for you guys in America. And if that is the case, what a, what a platform for him.

And certainly, again, even compared to the Khabit fight, he won this one. And he won in an amazing definitive fashion. He turned McGregor into a meme. It's crazy. This is the first part of the year because we'll be talking about, I feel like this win will be one of the most memorable moments 12 months from now. And there are options of plenty for both Connor and Dustin Porre after that victory. But, you know, Casey, we talked about it before. You're more the technical

guy between the two of us for sure. But I really thought that Porier landing that take down early set the tone because it kept Connor guessing. Like it gave him a lot to think about. And that's what opened up the leg pick game. That's it opened up the striking up front. And made Connor have to think a little bit more than because the takedown clearly threw him off. He wasn't ready for it.

He defended, he got right back to his feet, did very well in the clinch, but it still gave him something to think about. How important was that early takedown in your opinion? Oh, very important. Very important. So, Mike, coming into the fight, that's why I predicted. I predicted Dustin would take him down, hold him down for the first round, take him down the second round. And I figured, actually, I predicted a third round TKO or submission finish from Dustin. I was pretty confident Dustin's victory that Dustin would win today.

And you're right. Once you got the takedown, Connor had to think about it. Once you got, and then once you have to think about your opponent's grappling, it opens all your striking up. All of a sudden, a mediocre striker becomes a great striker. And Dustin Poir is already a great striker. So he just became like a next level. level striker, essentially, after that. And then after the wrestling came the calf kicks.

And this wasn't Donald Soroni. Dustin Poirier wasn't going to go down with a shoulder strike. It was going to take a little more than a shoulder strike tonight. And I think AK had a good point, though, about how Connor wasn't ready for those leg kicks. And when Dustin, and it's just in his post-pressure, talked about how much those leg kicks hurt and how those calf cakes hurt, rather, and how he experienced those in the Jim Miller fight. If you remember that fight, Dustin won that pretty handily,

but Jim Miller, I mean, but Dustin had to go to the hospital afterward because his legs were so battered up. And I watched the fight, and I didn't really think his legs were that battered up, and I remember that fight, because I watched it actually recently, but they were much more painful than I realized.

And Dustin going through that, he knew how much those would hurt Connor. No, Connor fights so infrequently now that his body just isn't, doesn't have, it's just not calloused enough to take the, take the beating you need to take to fight at the high level of, the durability you need to fight at the highest level of MMA.

So, yeah, the experience of Destin fighting more frequently, just more frequently really came, was a giant advantage for Destin. today and it really hurt Connor. Yeah. I mean, clearly. It's just a great performance.

Great performance. Michael Chandler. There are a lot of great performances. So let's go to the peeps. Ready? Let's go to the peeps. See what they have today. Okay.

A.K. let me ask you, because we sort of touched on this. Michael Chandler loves the Poria idea. Said nothing but respectful things. Love to share the Octagon with him. It would just be an honor. What a great guy.

And then Poria absolutely no sells it. Just says, nope. Not interesting. I'll fight anybody, but I'm not fighting Michael Chandler. What did you think of that? Okay, I don't love it. I don't love it. I do think that Chandler is probably one of the hot, right away,

one of the hottest names in the UFC lightweight division. There was some buzz. Look, the UFC couldn't have done a better job of promoting Michael Chandler over the last six, seven months or so, whenever it is that Chandler, you know, weighed in for the, as an alternate for the Gates G, G, Habib fight. They had the video package for an alternate. For a guy who came from Bellator, they said the words Bellator tonight. That was new.

So they have done the smart thing and said, look, this guy has a fan base and another promotion. Let's use that. Let's use that. It'd be silly for us to try and say, oh, this is some new guy. We're not going to talk about where he came from. So they did that brilliantly. All the video package stuff, he's been very, he's always been good with the media. So he's put himself out there.

So all he had to do was deliver on Fight Night. And he picked up an enormous win in the, the most, exciting way possible. And I'd say he's probably going to be one of the three most talked about names at lightweight for the next three or four months. So it is a bit silly for Poirier to dismiss him. However, however, I do still think if you're Poirate that you view Michael Chandler as someone who has more to gain from beating you than you do from beating him.

So again, fair or not, that is probably how Porre is viewing it. I think, again, he's, I don't know if he's hoping for Habibu, what a fight he thinks will be bigger, or maybe he has a certain opponent in mind, like a Charles Olivera, or if he wants to run it back with McGregor, which of course will still be a more high profile opponent than anybody. And he thinks that's the best way to go for a vacant title fight,

which is what I imagine Porre would want. So I understand the justification for not wanting to fight Chandler just yet. Do I agree with it? No. But I do think that he still sees it as a bit of a low reward. fight for him. You know what I find interesting, Casey, after all this, that Nick Diaz was a very popular name tonight, not just from Connor, because you figured after the loss, Nate would probably

be like the favorite, but even Dustin Porreux throughout Nate Diaz's name. And this is a guy who we last saw in November of 2019 got beat pretty badly by Jorge Mosvital. Like, it was a one-sided fight for the BMF title. Like, the fight wasn't close. Like, I know some people complained about the stoppage, but it wasn't. wasn't going to get much better for Nate at that point. I think most people would agree with that.

But isn't it just fascinating that Nate Diaz just has this ability to get in these conversations no matter what happens, win or lose? Because those are pretty bad loss. And yet he could find himself, if Dustin Porre plays his cards right, he could find himself possibly in a lightweight title fight. Is this crazy? That Nate Diaz could be in a lightweight title fight? Is that what you think?

Is that what you're saying? If Dustin plays his card? Right. Yeah, I just think that's, I was real, I mean, okay, Dustin Poirier, oh my God, you fought an amazing fight. Awesome. Man, but you're no-sell of Chandler and let me fight Nate Diaz. It's just weird. I don't know. I just, I don't get it. I don't say, I don't get it. I'm just confused what Dustin wants right now. Does he want, you know, a big bag of money? If it's a big, bag of money he wants, then you fight Conn McGregor again for the trilogy. But that's just going to be a fight. That's just going to be a main event on a pay-per-view, not just, you know, that's a big deal, obviously.

But, or you can fight for the title. And it doesn't matter who the other guy is. And he's saying Charles, but Chandler shouldn't be that guy. But Chandler, outside of Conn-Megregor is the biggest guy who can justifiably be in that

title shot. It's either Gaichie, Olivera or Chandler. To me, Chandler being the co-main event on the biggest card of the year so far, it probably wouldn't be the top two, maybe one, maybe it's the biggest card of the year, who knows? I just don't get it.

I mean, I don't get it. I don't get it. I mean, you just went hammering nails with Dan Hooker, your last fight. You had to go to the freaking hospital afterwards and a close fought victory. Michael Chandler didn't even break a sweat over the same guy. I mean, he did enough. And this idea is like he hasn't worked his way up the UFC.

The guys fought like 50 fights outside the organization or whatever. Michael Chandler has paid his dues. Just because the K didn't have eight sides doesn't mean like his fights don't matter. So confusing statement from Dustin Porier. Confusing. A.K., what's the bigger fight now? Like if the UFC were to put these two options on the table, what's a bigger fight? Like, what draws more?

Dustin Porreier versus Charles Olivera or Dustin Porier versus Michael Chandler? Oh, I thought you were going to throw Nate Diaz. There was an option because I was going to say, Nate is still bigger than both. Okay, okay, okay, yeah, whether that should be the case or not, yes, obviously that, you know, that's why I could Nate call out. So you said, are there Michael Chandler or Charles Olivera? It's Chandler. It's a bigger fight. Like what does it want?

Yeah. It's definitely Chandler. I mean, I suppose he just introduced himself on a Conner-Megger card. So anyone, again, like I said, tuning in and their freaking ESPN Plus was working, who at least caught the Co-Main and the main, they probably, they're immediately in their mind, they're like, I need to see these two guys fight. I just have to. It's recency bias.

But again, and I think when we, should this, you know, talk build up more and when we dig deeper and their resumes, it really is also the quality of their competition and how and how much they've come along and what they've built up. But it makes sense in that as well. It's justifiable in two ways. Recency, super exciting form this night. And also how they've fared in the lightweight division over the last two or three years, they're two of the most accomplished lightweights.

You can't argue that. So yeah, it's got to be Chandler. And this just sucks so much for Olivera, who for whatever reason, whether it's his own shortcomings as a personality or the UFC's failure to push them just cannot seem to register in a big way with outside of the hardcore

fan base. Maybe he needs the right opponent. Maybe he needs to be put in this situation where he's on a big card with like a McGregor or again, well, there's no Habibini. Like a John Jones, someone like that. Maybe that's what finally creates a little more casual interest.

But as it is, it has to be Chandler, especially after tonight. Yeah. I think so. I think, like, for hardcore, people want to see Oliver get his, get his opportunity. But, you know, I think right now, unless Nate slides his way into, like, one of these fights, Alvarez is either going to get the title shot or he's a win away from it. So he's not a horrible position, but it just depends on what they ultimately end up doing. So we'll see what happens.

But I was surprised Porre reacted that way. Yeah, just no-sell. It was just, like, even like, it was weird. It was odd. All right. Let's see. Do you think Hooker's durability has finally taken its toll or was it inevitable due to Chandler's ridiculous speed?

What do you think about that, Casey? I think when you go through some of the, I mean, the two-fight Dan Hooker had last year, that crazy fight with Paul Felder that people weren't even really talking about during the end of the year awards, and then obviously that crazy fight with Porre. Do you think those wars just caught up to him

or do you think Chandler and his style and just landing that shot, the speed, Hooker just wasn't prepared for it. I think this is when I insert that GIF, it says, why not both? I think this is clearly both. I think Hooker did, unfortunately, Hooker probably did lose a few, maybe a few years off his career. Who knows, when those two wars he fought last year.

But if Hooker had fought, if Hooker had came out there and looked like Dan Hooker, how we have seen him before. I would probably think it's a durability issue. But, man, but I don't know. Maybe I got watched a fight again, but Dan Hooker did not look like Dan Hooker in there. Even before he got knocked out, obviously. He just looked very timid, very,

honestly, he just looked like you didn't want to be in there. Like, I don't know what it was about Chandler, but, yeah, he just didn't look like he wanted to be in there with Michael Chandler tonight. So I'm hoping Hooker just maybe these all these big trips during quarantine because now he has I mean because he was I think he was probably in a fight island for two weeks. Dustin Poir kind of talked about how he was just going crazy in his head just staying and just living in his hotel room and the workout room. Maybe that just got to Hooker because there is a giant mental aspect of this game. And Hooker just I mean I was picking Chandler but man no way.

that I picked this way. I mean, no way that I pick Chandler to defeat Hooker like that. Or wasn't even competitive. So, yeah, a little both.

I mean, I hope this doesn't have long-term effects on Michael, Dan Hooker because him taking his gloves off and doing all that stuff. That's not good. That's all bad. It's got to be a little frustrating for him, too.

And I think this might play a part in it. Not only do you have to spend the two weeks in Abu Dhabi, but he's not going to be able to go home until February 21st. Insane. That's a month. That's another month before you can go home.

That's wild. I'm feeling like he's going to be bad. Oh, no, I wish they would have talked about that on the paper view. Maybe they did. I didn't hear everything, but they mentioned it. They mentioned it. Okay. But especially guys in New Zealand, because when they go back to New Zealand, I know,

like, New Zealand is basically coronavirus free. So, but because, but the reason they are is because, like, guys like Dan Hooker who leave the country come back in. Like you said, they're going to be in quarantine for, I think, almost a month. That is bomb. Very strict. Very strict. Very strict.

So, man, maybe when he was walking out there and he saw Michael Chandler across that cage and it's just like, oh, crap, I have to win this. Because imagine I'm doing all this. Just a nightmare scenario for Dan Hooker. I mean, just, that's just a, man, I honestly felt very bad for him. not losing necessarily, but losing like that. Losing to get knocked out before the fight even really begins. That's just, I really sympathize with Dan Hooker. Yeah, I mean, all these sacrifices for him are worth it if you win.

If you win or at least get to put in a good three rounds. You know, at least get to go the distance and maybe we don't have a shot at the fight of the night or to that reputation of like what a warrior you are for this fight to be so hyped up. And then to just, I mean, there's no other way to drop a goose egg like that is, again, like, so that's why when I heard the throwing the gloves off, I did not think retirement. I just thought, oh, he's mad. He's mad. And it's all hitting him.

It's all hitting him right now in this moment. All these sacrifices he made over the last six weeks, sorry, whatever, three months, whatever, however long the preparation was. And then all the sacrifices, he still has to make, like we said, waiting in quarantine. Hopefully with his teammates, I'm hopefully that maybe that makes it a little bit easier. He has teammates. I hope he's not actually by himself. I imagine the team, again, they're all going back to New Zealand. We'll at least have to be together.

But, man, it's, don't think that these guys can just, you know, shut that off when they step in the octagon. It's like, oh, they just forget all that stuff. Man, that's on their minds. It's probably on his mind during fight week. It's probably on his mind during all the press conferences. It's you guys, well, I was just saying, we all made sacrifices in our lives. I'm sure we all have our stresses. But think about the worst stresses and bull crap you've had to deal with in your life.

And that's what, you know, Dan Hoper's been dealing with over the last, over the last. three months and now and now tonight and for a little bit after so let's have some sympathy for Dan Hooker but yeah the wars definitely taking their toll on them we didn't even mention the Edson Barbosa fight remember that fight would probably could have been stopped yeah holy cow that's that's that's a career that's a career shortener that's a career shortener so uh yeah and i and i think he just got caught too so all that all that come everything we mentioned combined plus of course the excellence with michael chanler the guy hits like a truck so i don't know i still think we'll see, I don't think Hooker's chin is gone.

I think with the right matchup, we'll still see him in these really incredible three-round, five-round wars. But did it factor into him getting knocked out tonight? I think so, yeah. Tristan Gordaugh-werey wants to know Tristan Gorda wants to know where Dan Hooker goes from here. I see two very

popular options on social media, AK. Hooker versus Tony Ferguson or Hooker versus RDA. Which one do you like? Oh, I'll Tony. I like Tony. Yeah.

Already, I don't think this fight's going to happen, but I don't know. I'm still fixed on him possibly fighting Gichi. But yeah, the Tony fight, I think it would be great. I think it'd be good for both guys.

It sounds kind of like a weird like, oh, well, someone has to win, which is a good feeling for one of those. Both guys have a pretty big fan bases. But really, I also mean it would just be a great fight.

And whoever lost, I don't think it would hurt their reputation all that much. So this is the perfect time to book these guys against each other. It was hard to book Ferguson for a while because he was in such a big win streak. nothing besides Habib really made sense.

Now he's kind of in a way at least his matchmaking has been kind of liberated by the slump he's in as odd as that sounds. So I would love to see that fight. But mostly I think Mike, like we've kind of said for Calvin Cater, hopefully he can take some time off. Hopefully he goes home when he gets back in February, gets to see his family,

hang out, spend a lot of quality time with them. And I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see hook or fight again until the fall or maybe even winter of 2021. Yeah, where does it go? I'm on. Yeah, I was going to throw it to you, Casey, because I'm on the Ferguson train too because especially if we're still in the same position like six months from now with the pandemic and everything and the quarantine stuff, if Dan Hooker is going to take all this time and

travel and have to deal with that, I would hope he would get the biggest fight possible. And all respect to RDA is a former champion, there's something to be said about that. Ferguson's the bigger fight. I think he could get up a little bit more for a fight like that. So that's why I'd go with Ferguson. What's say you? Well, Dan Hooker is going to be sitting at, what does he go from here?

He goes to a hotel room for a month. That's where he goes, first of all. But after he gets out of that hotel, no, actually I disagree of both those picks, RDA and Ferguson. I think Ferguson is going to be out of, we're not going to be talking, I'm sorry,

we're not going to be talking about Dan Hooker for about six months, essentially. So I think the RDA and Ferguson, kind of matchups won't make sense in about six months because I think they'll fight before that. Hooker will be on a, is it just two-fight losing streak? Did he, did he? Yeah, two fights. Yeah, too.

Yeah, that's important. Yeah, poor. Okay. Yeah, so, yeah, he's on a two-fight losing streak. I think he ran a two, and especially after this loss, you don't fight a guy like RDA. You definitely don't fight a guy like Tony Ferguson. I think Dan Hooker, when he comes back, he fights a guy outside of the top 15. I think you, I think Dan Hooker has to rebuild his career, unfortunately.

He needs, he needs, I don't know, anyone outside the top 15, honestly. I can name a bunch of guys, but just I don't, I think Dan Hooker, you give him a tune-up fight when he's ready to return. Sometime, I would, I would hope at least mid the late summer. No, that's not an exciting pick, but I think that's the smart pick for Dan Hooker. If I'm like Tony, even if I got like Tony Ferguson, do I want a fight? Dan Hooker, a guy fighting a two-fighted, lose his streak? What does Tony Ferguson gain from that? I'm just...

I mean, Tony Ferguson is on the street himself, so... Yeah. But if Tony Ferguson beats, he goes like, oh, you just beat a guy that got knocked out, who was by Chandler, got knocked, you know, went through a war with Dustin Poirier. He's like, I don't think Tony Ferguson will want that fight, to be honest. But...

You guys can't be picky. I don't think they can be. I mean, maybe they think they can, but they shouldn't be. And I think the matchmakers will present the reality the situation to them. And I do think Hooker's, I think Hooker first is an opportunity for both guys. Do you think it's smart for Dan Hooker? I don't think it's smart to compete in MMA. But here we are. So I really, the most day I want to see is Dan Hooker get that solid six months off, spend time with his family, rest, recover. And again, if we don't see him until the fourth quarter,

2021, I won't complain. As a fan, you know, of course, I want to see him fight all the time. But I mean, based on him getting knocked out tonight and just his mood, his seeming mood. Let's give this man a break, you know. Dan Hooker versus Hanato Moikano. That's who I want to see. Yeah, I like it. That's not bad. Yeah, I was just going to say, like, it doesn't get much easier outside of the top 15.

Because you got, I mean, if you go, even if you get into the top 20, this, we got one tonight, Armand's Sarukion? like these are the next this is the next way Fafiel Fiziv like these are the next crop these are the guys like just outside the top 15 that might be mentioned I don't want any yeah there's no easy fight at 155 top 30

there's not an easy fight there's no such thing there's not an easy fight but they're easier fights and I don't think that's all I think Dan Huger needs to take a break I think I mean like a couple years ago We weren't thinking Dan Hooker's a title contender, but he had a couple good wins.

He looked exciting, so we're like, oh, Dan Hooker, he might be fighting for the title soon. He's not there yet. I don't know if he ever will be. He's clearly a very talented fighter. I don't know if he is an elite, like top five mainstay. He might have kind of touched it for a little bit, but it might be, Dan Hooker might not be as good as we, as maybe we were hoping, I guess. So I think you should fight way behind right now in the rankings. Who should Caldward face next?

Lauren Murphy. No. I mean, thank you, Gino for the question. I understand the reasoning behind it because there's a lot of flywates now that feel like they're deserving of a title shot. Doesn't it? I mean, again, Jojo was booked to fight Shevchenko. So it almost seems fair that she kind of got. this bounce back, a very convincing bounce back win over someone who has competed for the title

recently. Shouldn't she be back in line and get that? But no, because I think Jessica Andras jumped everyone with the win over Shikigan, right? And then we have, look, we said, Lauren Murphy, hasn't she already done enough to kind of earn a telishite? Does she have to win a fight? So those are three names that if any of them got booked to fight, Shochko is not officially booked to fight any, right? No, officially. I don't think. Yeah. Any of those three, I favor Andrage.

But if any of those three names got booked to fight it, I'd be like, completely fair. Completely fair. So should, again, I almost don't want to say any of these women should have to fight again. But I do like Chino's suggestion because if Andraj does get that title shot, these women, I don't know if they can, if they can wait, that's great. And they should. If they can't and they have to fight again, Murphy Jojo makes a lot of sense. I don't like that bite.

I think. Carterwood did the UFC a bit of a favor by spacing Jennifer May on short notice. I think if they don't book, if they don't book Shevchenko on Drogh, which I think is totally justifiable, if they don't book that, you do Shevchenko Valentina. I think that's the fight. Sorry. No, I'm sorry. It's very late.

It's very late, guys. Well, it's midnight. I think you do. I think, I think, basically. I think Jojo, of her dominant win tonight, I think she had, I'll say this, let me say, I think she has earned her chance to get her ass whooped by the champ Valentina and Shevchenko. That's why I think she has earned her opportunity to do it.

I don't think Jojo has a legitimate shot at beating her, but I think very few fighters do. But that doesn't mean, but Valentina still has to fight. She still needs an opponent. I think Carterwood has earned that shot with that dominant performance tonight. If Carterwood, if the UFC does not go that route, the fight I would like to see is Jojo Cauderwood in a rematch at flyweight against Cynthia Covey. Cynthia Coveo wanted to sit in the straw weight and now they're both at flyweight, so I think it's the time.

Both managed by the great Daniel Rubinstein, which should make things, uh, negotiations very easy. There's another wrinkle to this too. Viviani Iroosio is in this conversation now as well. Yeah, Vivianne. Yeah, she just beat up, um, Roxy's teammate, beat her up good too. And I feel like, well, didn't she just, wait, who did she just, who was Arrujo just? No, didn't she just beat up Roxy?

Yeah, she just beat up Jojo's teammate. So you got a little. Oh, you said Roxy's team. Okay, okay. Yes, yes, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm not going to get mixed up. I know, it's so late.

Yeah, we're getting a lot of names. I'm not confused. I'm like, I'm like, okay, yeah. Yeah, no, but it's weird because I view Arrojo as being one fight away. I do, I do think she needs another fight. That's the one. If somehow she emerged from this cluster of names that we just brought up, if Arrujo got the title shot, that would raise my eyebrow. And I'm not sure why. Her resume is actually,

if people look at it, it's limited in the OCC, but it's fairly strong. I think like three and one, four and one, four and one. So it's as strong as any candidate that's, again, the division has not been around for that long relative to other divisions. So you don't have anyone who's like 10 and one at flyweight except for Chupchenko eventually. So I, but still, still, I don't know why I view, I view RUO as being one fight away. So maybe I throw her in the mix and she fights one of the names you mentioned, but it's weird. And then I don't feel any of the names you mentioned should have to beat her to get a title shot. So someone's heart is getting broken unless all these women can afford to wait, then great. I have a feeling they can't. It's a division that it moved a lot

in 2020 and I think it's going to keep moving a lot in 2021. So, um, so like I said, uh, that's why the initial question, I got no problem with it. You know, but it's, yeah, I don't mean, I don't mean our Ujo is in the title conversation right the second. I mean, just like with the Calderwood up, like, a Calderwood option or somebody of that nature. Like if they do in the Calvios, like she's in that conversation. Like if they booked two of those three women to fight, all of those make sense to me. And only two weeks, we got Alexa Grasso versus Macy Barber too. So we're going to throw, we're going to throw some more names in there too pretty soon.

Hey. Oh, stop it. Stop it. Yeah. The women's flight division, the women's flyweight division, just kind of say a couple years ago was, yeah, what is whatever. But now things are coming along. Now Valentina, she's got a lot of new names, a lot of new prospects. I think UFC's actually finally doing a good job at getting the women's flightway division going.

And it's exciting actually. Some bantub weights came down. Some straw weights moved up. They did a very, very, very good job signing people out of like Invictas from some international promotions. We just saw my non-firo who looks awesome. Who knows how good she is? 2022. It could be a name we're talking about a lot as a in 2022. So, yeah, I mean, I think we've said this a lot.

Like, in last year, Women's Flyway was one of the more entertaining and interesting divisions to watch. Yeah. I mean, and you got, you got Tala Santos. You got Miranda Maverick coming up who's fighting Julian Robertson soon. I mean, 25's looking pretty good right now. It really is. It really is. I'm excited about it. What else we got? Uh, easy to say in hindsight, but I think Hebas didn't deserve to be such a favorite against Rodriguez.

What is next for her? Uh, I assume we're, we're thinking about Amanda Hebas here. Yeah, I mean, I think a pretty fair narrative, and I think we all said this, that we thought Rodriguez was completely flying under the radar in this fight. Yep. So the lines were a little, a little crazy. Uh, but man, first round went pretty much the way I thought the whole fight was going to go. But all she needed was one shot.

and changed everything, and she got not one, but two knockouts in one fight. So we'll start with you at K's. We're probably not going to talk about her or not on to the next one unless it's a wild card, but where does Amanda Hebas go from here? Minus 3.45?

Favorite? Crazy talk. What? I didn't remember that. I thought it was like two to one. Two to one minus two. Minus three over a three to one. What are we doing?

What are we doing as the society people? this is and I don't know what the Mike did I have an idea what the initial line was I bet it was smaller and probably a lot of money came in on Keybus right probably is that is that a safe keep talking I will get up yeah I mean again I can't imagine

it started go ahead of case you up oh sorry I'm looking at I'm looking at the topology numbers on this and I actually by tapology's user votes for predictions. HIPOs Rarigas is like one of the biggest upsets prior to the year.

How much was that? 93% of people picked Hibos to win. 93%. That's a lot of people. And only, yeah, only like maybe like in, so 7% picked Ruegas. And of that, very small, like a little tiny sliver actually picked her to win by K.O. Or TKO.

Yeah. Unreal. You, you picked, you picked Rodriguez to win by decision, I believe, right? You did pick Rodriguez. So you are of that 7% on tapology. I think Rodriguez is an amazing fighter. I don't, I don't get it. People just forget it. Again, there's a draw.

No, it's like, oh, windless in her last two. You know, there's a draw in there. There's a very, very close loss to Asparza, which some people thought she won. I thought you won. I thought you won. And then you have Hebas, who is 4 and O and the undefeated in the UFC and in this big push.

This is a classic case of how you get kind of odds that don't reflect, you know, perhaps the actual skill and performance of the, of the fighters, which is not to say that Hibis isn't very good. She is very good. She is very good. I think, yeah, but she's also young. I think people, you know, we kind of like marvel how young she is. 27 is, it's just getting there in your prime for MMA, but it's not quite in your prime.

That's compared to Regis, who's quite a few years older, but in a good way, more older and more experience. And her body is probably a little more where it is in her physical prime, right? So there's a lot of those little things to consider. Also, Hebas comes from, you know, we see this all the time. It comes from a black belt present jujitsu, black belt and judo background, strong grappler, who's shown a lot of striking ability in the UFC. She looked great.

I remember the McKenzie Dern fight. She picked her apart, make that what she will. But Rodriguez is clearly the better striker. She was a better striker in paper going in. So maybe he was, you know, it's one of the things. You get a little too far away from your, from your. or a base discipline and you pay for it. And that happens. That's a lesson to be learned.

She's going to figure out the future what striking she should stick with, what striking maybe again got her into this trouble. And then again, how much to try to re-implement her grappling in. And she'll be better off for it. This is, if anything, I think it's a good loss for her. A great win for Rodriguez. And I think a good loss for Hibos for what you might learn from it. I think you re-book.

Yeah, I can't find them. Yeah. I think you book Re-book Hibaz versus Michelle Watterson. I think that's, I was still paying. Hibas, is that the fight that was the original fight? That was the original fight, right? It was one of them. And as I think Asperza was in talks before that.

And I think he was actually beat Esparza and Michelle Waterson. I just think, I'm just that high on Marina Rodriguez, and I feel I'm happy I was right tonight. But I think Hibas, I'm not trying to crap on Hibis. I think she's awesome too. And she, with a good performance, maybe I could see Hiba's beating Ravigas eventually. But right now, Hibis isn't there. I think Rodriguez is, oh, man, I just love her striking.

She is so violent. Oh, I love her. Yeah, fun to watch. Why not give Marina the Michelle Waterson fight? That would work too, sir. I think she may have, it would, unless you think she's kind of already jumped over her. I don't think I put her ahead of her in the rankings, but I don't know, man. Yeah, I know I'm trying to see what's ahead of that.

Michelle Waterson is one of those fighters, though. She might be behind your rankings, but you get more fans to watch. And, yeah, I think, I think that's, I think, even though Michelle is behind her, I think it's a good fight for either then. Michelle's one. Rodriguez is eight, Watershed's seven.

Yeah, you could still do it. It makes sense. Yeah, I don't know if she's, and I don't know if she's quite leapfow. She has, though,

maybe, and I think we brought this up as an option on a previous, onto the next one, Mike. Maybe Jan Shao Nan. Maybe she fights Jan. I don't know.

That would be, that would be big for a record. And that also, again, just be a really fun style matchup. I actually just a fight. I'd really like to say. Yeah, that's a good option as well. What do you got, guys?

What else? What else we got? Okay. Oh, here we go. Good luck for reading this one, Mike. Connor Dustin. Good luck reading this one. Connor Dustin, I got it.

Connor Dustin, Ferguson, Gachie, Olivera, and now Chandler is the guy to beat Habib. Do you guys see the trend? I honestly don't think any of them has anything for Habib. It's hard to argue with that. I mean, I just don't think anybody can beat Habib. I just don't. I agree. I thought Gaichi was going to be a hell of a test.

And, yeah, it was just like we saw what happened. Alivaura is going to be interesting. Oliver will be really interesting, but I still think Habib whoops up on him. At least to Chandler. Chandler is the one. There is something interesting about Chandler, though, Because, how would Habib beat Chandler?

I mean, I know he would take him down, submit him, I guess, eventually. But I can't, it's a hard time visualizing in my head, even though I would pick, I would definitely pick Habib if Habib Chandler got booked. But he came out of retirement. If he broke the promise he made to his mother to fight Michael Chandler. Broke her heart. Sorry, Mom. I got to fight Michael Chandler. I can't do this.

It's trending big, Mom. It's trending big. Oh my God. I agree. I mean, I would still, of those names, if I had to pick one who I think has a chance, and again, and again, if I were setting the odds myself, none of these guys would be closer than like minus 350, if I'm being, if I'm being honest. I'm sorry, say Habib would be a minus 350 favorite at the very least against any of these names.

I still like Oliver. I still think Dolomx, just that. That ground game, man, it's funny because he had, Oliver has lost fights on the ground. But I want to believe he's finally found that consistency. Maybe he's just lucky. Maybe we're just seeing a head, a coin land on heads eight times in a row, you know? But there's definitely a better maturity there. I think skills are at their peak right now.

So that to me is still the fight I would want to see out of the names that Muhammad has listed here. But I agree. No, I would I think any of them have a realistic chance of beating Habib? Right now, no, no, no. Habib is the best. Agreed. What was your guys face expressions when Dustin knocked out Connor? I don't know.

My face is freezing a couple of times here, so probably one of those faces I saw was likely. I mean, like I said earlier, after there was a point in that first round where Connor landed a big shot. Dustin ate it and then he returned fire and then he like pointed at Connor that was that was the moment where I felt the tide was really turning and I was just I was surprised but it wasn't like

Chandler I was more surprised at Chandler's knockout than than Porias if that makes sense I don't know how you guys were looking at it I pick both I definitely I'll go ahead Casey I pick both Chandler let's see the face let's see the face oh my face no

oh and the gesture and the gesture it's like fucking the god I'm sorry the god actually actually I will say this

half of my overjoyed expression was because that put me over the top in the in the staff picks so because I go me and AK

were tied going to the main event oh that's true yeah that was not just God that was you got me that was yeah I got you I got you

no but um I was definitely I was just super shocked because remember when Connor fought Mayweather and the ref basically saved Connor from a giant knockout because, you know, right before Connor was on wobbly legs, he was gas, the ref was like, all right, we're done here, we're done here. Before we got a big knockout. And I felt this. And like it saved Connor because in our head, we still hadn't seen Connor get like really like, boom, you're out cold, knocked out. It was hard to visualize.

I knew, but I felt like tonight was the night. It was going to happen. I felt like Connor was going to just take a big ass weapon. And it was just, it's crazy to see. It was like the first time we saw Anderson get knocked out. And we're like, whoa, all right. It was just, he got knocked out. I can't believe I saw that.

First time we saw when Otto got knocked out, I was like, whoa, I've never, I couldn't visualize that, but there it is. And that's why I felt like when I finally saw Connor get knocked out with strikes. We've seen him get submitted, all that stuff. but to get just boom boom all right you done it was just um yeah it was just it was a wild it was it was a wild moment as a fan to watch that to me yeah i was uh i definitely had one of these uh did the dc thing you stood up no no you know i mean i'm working obviously but but so i kind of just looked up i i i saw i didn't see the finish coming because uh you know we we saw he had been stinging him with those leg kicks and it's like oh man those kicks are really taking a toll on him And, like, as I was saying that, Porre pounced perfectly and then started flurrying.

And then, like, my face was gradually. It was like, it was, it was like, oh, oh. Oh. So that was the exact reaction. This is we want to see how it develops. So that was like my exact reaction. Because, like you said, I was just surprised. And then, but as it happened, I'm like, you know what?

That made sense. Like everything that unfolded there made a lot of sense based on Porreux's game plan, which was just awesome. And man, the sight of McGregor lying just like thrown on the ground, which now become the hot meme. Bundled up Bernie, you had your day, you had your 24 hours. Bundled up Bernie has now been replaced by sleeping Connor. It was a good run.

And some people have already, have already, of course, put them together. So well done, internet. We went again. But yes, the new hot meme, Sleeping Connor. So it looks so peaceful there after getting punched in the face, like six really hard times by Dustin Porre. All right. I may have to dip in a second. Yeah, yeah.

I don't know if we're rapidly. Let's do one more. Let's do one more. Let's do one more. Let's do one more. All right. Maybe get a good one. Let me get a good one.

Wow, we've talked 45 minutes. Oh my goodness. It's a time. Time flat, you have these amazing questions. You have our viewers, our faithful viewers who are like us, have probably been watching or talking about MMA for the last like 12 hours, plus the rest of the week. You guys are the best.

I know we're good. I just want to say that before we sign up. You guys, you guys watching. I say this all time, but I mean it. You guys are the freaking best. All right. Do we have a Connor question? I'm trying to find, yeah.

Because like, uh, no, no, no, guys, give me a Connor question. Give me a Connor question. No one cares about Connor McGregor. Yeah, he's done. He's old news. He's all news. No one talks about him. No one wants to see him fight anymore.

No one has any questions. Okay. I was not a question. I just have. Of course you would. Yeah, thank you, Zach. I mean, you know. Yeah, Zach knows.

Come on, guys. get that last question in. I know some of you even spamming questions. Keep that spam coming, finish. Not a spam. See it. Yeah, I know we have a lot of our regular, regular viewers.

Mr. Bozo, we're talking about Connor. We're not talking about anyone else right now. Okay. Oh, sorry. This is actually slightly interesting.

I don't think it'll happen, but McGregor versus Hooker. McGregor's not getting out of bed for that fight. I'm sorry. I ain't, and that it sounds like we've been pretty hard on Hooker. But again, that's the nature of the game. It's funny when you lose a fight,

you had two of the best fights of the friggin year in 2020, and then you lose one fight, and suddenly we're like, we're removing you from the big fight conversation. That sort of happens. So should they, they should match up McGregor-O-Kir? Ah, Shinnagami, I just don't see it.

Would you be a cool fight? Hells, yeah, it'd be a cool fight. Maybe if by some chance there's a New Zealand show, and you convince McGregory would be a nice family vacation to go there, but I don't know. Here's our final question before we take a nap. Good morning. What is it?

Work. What is Connor McGregor's most realistic path back to the title? This is a really question, actually. Yeah. That's a good question. A.K. you go. I'll go first. I'll go quick.

Go, man, go get one of those Paul brothers. Take out one of those Paul brothers. Because let me tell you something. Those guys. Well, no, I should say which one's undefeated? Jake. I don't know. Logan's already had a loss.

He lost the KSI. You know what? That guy's old news. Jake, he just smoked a three-time NBA dunk contest champion, all right? McGregor goes, takes him out, easy work. And then maybe, and then that gets him the Pacquiao fight. And then that gets him a tattle shot at whoever happens to be holding the belts in either late 2021 or early 2022. I'm mostly joking.

And yet somehow, if those things did have. happen. I do think McGregor would just jump right back into the UFC with no UFC wins and be like, I'm back. Give me, give me that belt. I hate to say it. Wait, would he, is, are you saying he beats Pacchio? In a boxing match? That we just said? I think I did. I think I did just say that. So I'm not, I'm not going to walk it back. It's getting late. I just said it. Yeah, I just said it. It's getting really late. It's getting really late. So AK's theory is, I can't take it back. I'm on the record. I'm on the record. I'm on the record. I can't take it back. So, AK, your theory is

Kahnem Greger to get a shot back at the 155-pound UFC championship. He needs to go to boxing. He needs to face the undefeated Paul brother, whichever one that is. And then he needs to face Mani Pachiao in a boxing match. Yes. Defeat, defeat, and win. And win. And win.

Yes. And then after going, after being two and one in boxing, thing is overall record. He will come back and get a title shot. Against who, though? Who will be the title holder by that point? Michael Chowder. Look, Gunny 98 asked for the most realistic path.

Clearly, I've picked the most realistic path back for McGregor. So, again, I'm on the record. Clip it, clip it, put it out on the socials. I said what I said. You earned it, sir. All right, Mr. Heck, what do you got? The most realistic path back to the title is Dustin Porre winning the title. So that's the first thing.

Dustin Porre needs to beat whoever he fights for the belt. That sets things up perfectly. Connor, I think Connor's best options, he fights Nate. If he beats Nate, Conner's back. He can go on this trilogy tour. And I don't think Connor's that far out of it. I don't, especially if Dustin Porre has to win the undisputed title, though. Dustin Pori wins the undisputed title.

I think Connor only needs another win. an impressive win and some fire on the microphone, and he's right back in there because there's plenty of story here, and Dustin would take that fight in a second. Dustin having to win over Connor, plus winning the undisputed title, that gives him some sway.

And if Connor can get a win, put himself in that position, I don't think he's that far off. I don't think he's that far off, honestly. He's Connor freaking McGregor, but Dustin has to win the belt first. That's what I think. I think all Connor needs to do

to get a shot at the title, not to actually win it, but just to get a shot at the title is I think he just, he needs a dominant victory over Nate Diaz at lightweight. That's it. Nothing's fair. This isn't fair, but I think, yeah, a victory, a dominant victory, a finish over Nate Diaz, will get him that title shot.

And whoever's holding the belt at that time, I don't think it really matters. I think it helps. If it's Dustin having the belt, but if Dustin isn't the belt holder, I don't think it really matters. So, yeah. Life is not fair sometimes.

Oh, man. So if you're trying to. We learn that. If you're Charles, if you're Charles Oliver and you're Justin Gachie, put pen to paper and do it quickly, that's my advice. I know we said last question,

but man, I want to get your opinions on this at 55. I saw someone mention this. I've seen this mention. This is actually, I just, I kind of forgot about this. I've been saying Max Holloway at 55 is a top five lightweight. He went, like, he went to hammer and nails with Dustin Porier in a very competitive fight. That was this first time ever at lightweight, where his body was, he was just, he was just a featherweight who didn't cut weight.

He hasn't, he didn't bulk up too lightweight. So, man, Max Holloway at Lightway against Carmen Greger, rematch. Ooh, I like that. I'm picking Max, though. Yes, that's it. That's my answer. Yes, I would watch. Would watch.

Hell yeah, I'd watch that fight. You kidding me? I would watch Max Hollowake. I would watch this over anything, actually, over, over Connor versus anyone else, over Nate, over Dustin, over Gagie. Actually, this fight,

I like this fight in a boxing match. I mean, Isaiah, I will go credit. I will credit you if we use this. Yeah, I hope so. Isaiah and I will credit you. All right. I have feeling that'll be a popular choice. But there you go.

We could talk for way longer, but you guys probably want to go to sleep. We have work to do. We just got started. We're going to try to go to sleep. We just got started. It's like, I know. Well, listen, those pressers, those presses can be a beating sometimes. Yeah.

But there you go. All right. We're done. UFD-257. I'm not going to say it's in the books that we put a bow on it because there's still way more to talk about. We got on to the next one. We get between the link.

We got A-Sad live chat. I'm sure we're going to be talking about this. I mean, just so much, so much. In the meantime, for AK, for E.K. I am Mike Kat. Thank you so much for watching all the coverage. Big shot to Jose Young's, by the way. What a gangster he is on his way home.

Safe travels to you, Jose. Good morning. Good night, everybody. We're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network