MMA Fighting - UFC 260 Post-Fight Show

Episode Date: March 28, 2021

With UFC 260 in the books, MMA Fighting’s Mike Heck, Alexander K. Lee and E. Casey Leydon react to the top storylines from Saturday night’s event in Las Vegas, including the reaction to heavyweight championship main event between Stipe Miocic and Francis Ngannou. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Alexander K. Lee: @AlexanderKLee Follow E. Casey Leydon: @ekc Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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All right, everybody. Part two of our post-fight doubleheader coverage following UFC 260, which went down at the UFC Apex in Las Vegas in front of a lot of celebrities. It was an interesting night. But we have a new heavyweight champion of the world. Francis in Ghana, we just heard from him reacting to the big win. What could be next for him? Is it John Jones?

Is it Derek Lewis? Could it be the trilogy fight with Steve Mietich? Everyone seems to want John Jones. I want John Jones. I'm excited for it. We'll see what happens. But in the meantime, we're here to react to this event with all of you. We have the people's free fight show.

Now we're going to do the people's post-fight show. So you guys have a lot of questions, a lot of comments during the press conference streams. We're going to address all of those things right now. We've got the whole trio here. I am Mike Hack. Alex K. Lee is with us. There he is. Hey.

Hey. And on the ones and twos, Casey Liden back. I hurt my neck. We're off to a great start. Just a terrific start. But A.K. Wait, wait, wait, big night, big night. Opening a new, new can of seltzer.

Got my decroix. Everything's going good. There you go. Zero calories. Good for you, my friend. Watch those, watch those cows. All right, A.K. You've been waiting patiently to give your thoughts on the brand new heavyweight champion of the world.

Your reaction to the main event of UFC 260. How nice, guys, is it to have a huge, huge, huge, huge UFC title fight. And without controversy, clean finish, no weird illegal blows, no issues with the stoppage. Her being's only human. I wish he could have stopped that last hammer fist, but honestly, that kid, that's a very hard thing to stop. That was just a scary moment.

But otherwise, we had this narrative guys going in. We had this narrative for whether you're a fan of Francis and Gunner or not. It is a narrative that was laid out ever since the first fight between him and Steve Mojus. Maybe also after the Lewis fight, too. That's part of the story. This guy battles his way back, looks all the world like he has what it takes to be the world champion. just has to prove it and does it in just incredible fashion, not just getting the quick knockout, but both getting the quick knockout and answering the questions about like, oh, but has he

improved his wrestling? And he showed us like just a little bit of wrestling, just a little bit of grappling. He looks fantastic. Steepay, a great champion going out on his shield, as they say. Not the first time I think we're going to use that phrase on this show. And it's just so refreshing. It's so for a person that we can now move on. There's now certain questions to be asked about what's next for the champion, but let us be at our most optimistic here and just picture all the big things that are ahead for Francis and Ghanic. Well said, A.K. Well said.

Round of applause from the live studio audience. It's a great win. Oh. Hey. They're late. They're late. They're late. They're in a delay.

During a delay. So there you go. Brand new champion, Francine Gano, just the scariest guy in the octagon and just the sweetest guy outside of it. I mean, just at that press conference,

just answering the question. So calm, cool, collected. Just want to go home, reflect. I'm not calling on anybody. The UFC makes the final decisions.

I mean, just a company guy right there. It's like watching Bull Durham, you know, when he's like, what should I say at these press conferences? You've got to do what's best for the team. France is up there just so

so common kind It's just a scary man Won't somebody Think of the children You know we always say won't somebody think of the children You always think about the children Francis and Ghanu Our new UFC heavyweight champion

Is thinking about the children Wanting to give them something that they can aspire to And follow your dreams kids Follow your dreams There you go And I know a lot of you like to ask Matchmaking questions Don't do that

I mean, you can if you want in case you can just answer all of them. But me and AK are literally going to do a whole podcast on this tomorrow. Yes, within a few hours, really, if we're being... Before we go to the questions from our wonderful viewers, Mike, what was your expectations coming into this fight? And what do you think went wrong? I know you did pick Stebe, which is, I mean, that's a fair joy. I mean, not people pick Stebe.

It wasn't, like, crazy to pick Stebe. But, like, what do you think went wrong for Steve A? outside of getting punched a lot. He got overzealous in that second round. He landed a good shot, got too aggressive and got countered. The patience on both ends was key. Francis showed more of it, and that's why he won the fight. I mean, when it comes to how I thought the fight was going to play out,

yeah, I picked Stipe to win. But the way the first round played out and even like the second round until the finish, exactly how I saw it playing out. like stevie was going to have to overcome a lot if it got to the third round things are going to change and then stepe would kind of you know move away and wear him down he would land a take down eventually start to tire him out and then start to go to the body and and end it in that sense but that's how i saw it i didn't see stevie going in there and just being up 3027 and then stopping francis in the fourth round he was going to have to overcome hell to get it done

and he was doing okay he weathered an early storm in the first round the takedown I was surprised to see him shoot so quickly early and then he got stuffed and almost got stopped

it was a bad takedown it was I mean it was it looked desperate and yeah that's when I my confidence of my pick really started to go away I don't know

I mean that's I expected Francis to dominate the first two rounds and then Steve was going to start to take it over. But Francis is just such a powerful and dangerous man. All he needs is one moment,

one sharp thing. Stepe landed a really good shot, but he rushed in and Francis landed like half of that shot and put Steepay down. And that was it. So, who goes to him? Yeah, I was kind of shocked when Stepe did get hurt

in that second round. He just, he got, I think he just got really discombobulated in the head because he just, once he got hurt, He just kind of panicked and actually charged in and he's like, oh, I'm going to punch you harder. It was like that is just once you get touched by Stepe, you get the heck out of there.

We didn't talk about this, but on the DC and Rogan, I thought a good point they were making. They did say the small cage will be a big factor in this fight, and I believe it was. And I believe it's definitely in France's advantage. Did you see that? Did you feel that? Like if it was the big 30-foot cage, I feel like Steepie, when he got to. when he when because i think we all expected the steep he'll have to kind of go through hell to get to that tired version of francis that he would need to defeat there was just not enough room for stepe

to run to be honest did you did you sense that the small cage was not to stepe's advantage tonight the walls are closed it had to make yeah it had to make a difference it had to make a difference i know i know uh i know dana white has said he doesn't feel it makes a difference i know there's actually been numbers that kind of have shown that it doesn't make like a huge difference uh but i mean In this case, when you're talking about heavy weights and you're talking about, you know, we actually have a direct comparison. We saw how their first fight went in the normal size cage and then how it went the apex cage. Yeah, it had to make a difference. It's not the only reason again.

I mean, I think this version of Mangano maybe probably can do the same thing. Maybe it wouldn't have happened in the second round. Maybe it would have taken longer. But, yeah, I think it, as Mike just said, it kind of helped the walls close in just a little bit quicker on Stevie Mierich. And you need all the room you can get if you're going to dance with Francis and Gano. It had, it just had to feel super claustrophobic in there for Stebe. Once you got hurt, like, you just can't back up and angle out and just keep kind of circling out. Because remember, if a small cage, too, not only is it smaller, but the angles are actually a bit sharper, too.

So it's just, it's even easier to corner someone. So, no, I just thought that was definitely, it worked. I mean, good for Steve, bad for, bad, I mean, good for France is bad for Steepay. I can't imagine what it's like just having to go having to face Inganu again. I know again. Stevie, Stevie Major isn't us. He's a pro fighter.

He's not afraid of anybody. But boy, to go five rounds with that behemoth and win and win and a hard-earned win, that first ride, hard-earned win. And then to have to do it again three years later, honestly, it just seems, it'd be like going to war twice.

You know what I mean? It'd be like surviving a tour. Honestly, surviving a tour of, pick a horrible war. and surviving a tour of duty in that war two years, and then a few years later saying, guess what, the war is still going on, and we need to go back out there.

We know you barely made it out last time. I don't know how he does it. Again, on the other hand, hey, that's why he's a great champion. Still, probably, as of today, probably I would still say, the greatest heavyweight of all time. We'll see what Ngano does with his run. Right now, Mioch is the greatest heavyweight of all time. And that's why he agrees to do this kind of thing.

He could have retired after the Korme fight, maybe, right? But look, he has reasons for one to fight, and there's no shame in it. And like I said, he had his moments. You know, he had his moments in this one. He just got beat by a guy who is now pound for pound, one of the, looks like one of the best fighters in the world. As Francis, like, I threw this out on Twitter,

and I can't recall a time. Has Francis ever been in danger in a fight? Is there ever been a point where you think, oh, Francis is about to get finished, or he's about to get subbed, or he's easy. Oh. I don't even. No, no, that's what's, that's what's wild.

about him either that's and i can't think of i can't think of that really for any fighter um maybe no john jones has been hurt he's been rocked um maybe habib has to be habib was abe was never really in danger barely barely i mean one the one moment where michael johnson like tagged him with a combo and everyone freaked out and it was like oh my gosh his weakness is striking and anyone was striking and it's like literally like the smallest slip that he got like after getting punched yeah That was commentary related. Yeah. He's hurt.

He's hurt. I really think the dominance of Francis is really being understated here. Because that's why the heavyweight, steepe's heavyweight run was so impressive. Because they're heavyweights. They can all knock each other out. Anyone, like essentially the worst UFC heavyweight can knock out the best heavyweight because everyone is hard, you know? But like, steepe just seems maybe you can grind them out and get him tired.

and just, you know, win a decision. But he just, he feels invincible in there as far as, like, actually finishing that man and truly hurting him. Like, you, you can slow him down maybe and contain him. But I can't, I just have a hard time seeing anyone beating him. I mean, but I've been really high in Francis for a while. I thought, like, as soon as the, as soon as 220 was over when they fought the first time, I was like, okay, Francis won me, Stepe won that fight,

but Francis is going to win the rematch. I was very confident. that thing with that moment. But yeah, it's kind of cool. Got to finally see it. Yeah. Yeah, it took a while. And in a way, I'm like, thank goodness that I think a lot of us maybe would

like to see the rematch a little bit sooner. But these things usually happen so quickly that it was nice that we got to see him climb his way back, clearly developed, clearly mature, almost right in front of our eyes. Again, we didn't get to see the expansion of the skill set until tonight. night. But yes, in this age where they give rematches after either, where they give title fights off of losses, rematches off of like fast finishes for no reason for them to be patient with this guy. Again, whether it was intentional or not, whether it was just happenstance, obviously they couldn't match them up because Milchus was tied up with Cormi. So it was, you know, I don't

want to give them too much credit because they just had another matchup they preferred. But it worked out, you know, and it worked out great for Ngano. And yeah, and this is why we're here now talking great guy who could who if his run goes on he is you know trending to become the greatest heavyweight champion of all time though the rain could end pretty quickly depending if depending who he fights next let's let's put that way I'm I'm I'm crazy I'm gonna say it out loud but I think Derek Lewis has a better shot at beating Francis than John Jones I'm just gonna say you're not the only one you're not the only one who said that was that okay is that is that not crazy thought yeah I think I don't know

No. The thing is we just have no idea what he looks like, what John Jones will look like. We can project and certainly project and make some educated guesses. But it is different. It is a big change, right? It is a big change. So I don't know. But again, I don't think anyone would be super surprised. I think Ngandu would reasonably be favored going to the matchup. But John Jones is, depending on how you view, of course, his history of drug test failures is like the greatest fighter of all times. If you can bulk up properly, if you can get up to a reasonable size and fight the way he's fought at his best, I don't think anyone would say, oh, my gosh, a shocker. He beat Francis and Ghana. It's like, no, the best version of John Jones should be a good matchup for him. But at the same time, I think Ngano will be favored, and I'll certainly be piggying in Gano. What's the best version of John Jones? Boy, that would be. I have to go back some.

I mean, maybe the Gustafin rematch, but I kind of thought Gusison. That's not the same Guseson, though, that bought him the first time. I mean, it's crazy. I think we're looking at maybe, yeah, I mean, look, from the second Gustafsson fight, even the Dale Cormey fight. But again, these are, we do have to take into account. He did fail drug tests for the second Cormei fight. It's certainly worth mentioning. So, yeah, so, I mean, when I say the best version of John Jones people,

who might just want to roll their eyes and scoff and say, oh, we know what the best version of John Jones looks like, and we know why that best version exists. Yeah, and it's unfortunate, you know? And that's fair. And that's fair. That's fair. You need foils, motivations, and perhaps some fear. And I think Francis and Ghanu checks off all those boxes for John Jones. So maybe, maybe this is what he needs.

Maybe he needs that test. He needs to feel like he's going to be challenged. because I don't think he felt like he was going to be challenged in the Anthony Smith fight. I don't even feel like he thought he was going to be challenged in the Tiago Santos fight. Maybe the Dominic Reyes fight, but I feel like he woke up that morning and thought he was just going to run right through Dominic Reyes. I don't think he's going to wake up that morning and be like, I am just going to run through Francis Angano. He's going to wake up and say, I need to be on my P's and Q's or I'm going to sleep. And maybe that's where he's at his best.

I am so curious to how if that fight gets booked that we all hope, it gets booked. I'm really curious how John, we know if Francis is going to approach the fight. You know, Francis, he's a sportsman. Like, John's a good fighter. You know, this is the next fight? I'm a champion. We're going to do this. But John, like, what angle is John going to go at this? You know, I just like, oh, these heavy weights are slow. They can't punch. You're not ready for my power. Like, I don't, is this going to be a super cocky John Jones? Or is this going to be like, I don't know. I'm super curious. This is, this is new territory. This is fun. This is fun. This is why this is why this matchup has to be made. right there's when you had this many questions

the only one answers in the cage we all want to see it made um okay so just do you have control over the periscope uh stream yeah what's happening it just has it just says it says uh guest fighters i think it's yeah that is weird no words no words uh while you're yeah if you can tweak that uh i'll read out this comment someone was asking um were the refs bad tonight i i didn't think the refs were the one weird one was the mark smith of course

how he handled the O'Malley Almeida situation. I didn't think him not stopping the fight the first time was that bad. Not acknowledging the first walk-off. I thought that was okay because Al-Meda, yeah, was put on his butt for sure. And it wouldn't have been a bad stop,

which, I mean, you could have waved it off there, though I'm sure Amada's side would have protested. Definitely in the third round when Al-Meda got rocked again and kind of did like a full barrel roll into the middle of the cage, you definitely probably could have saved him that extra punch.

So I will say, it was a little question. for Mark Smith, but not the worst I've seen from a referee. And I don't think, and then I think the person also mentioned, Herb Dean, maybe not getting in quickly enough to stop that hammer fist, but No, no, no, no, no. This question is, this question goes to one referee and one referee only. Jeremy Bluff?

Correct. That guy. Come on, dude. What happened to us? That was so long ago now. I remember, what were we talking about? He did something really stupid. What was it?

The mouthpiece thing? First he, okay, the mouthpiece thing was part of it. Oh, that was just confusing. He tripped him. Then he accidentally trips a fighter.

Yeah, that's not good. Yeah. And then Mark Andre Barrio gets on top of him. Oh, yeah. In Mount and beats six shades of stuff out of him. Like over and over again.

It was like, it was like four, it was like three extra minutes of unnecessary punishment. And then he goes, you know what? There's three. seconds left in the fight. Let's stop it now. Why didn't you stop it a minute and a half ago? What are you doing? Like just if you're going to let it go this long, just let the man

survive for the last three seconds. I mean, why would you wait that long and then stop it then? The timing was a bit odd. Casey, I think I saw you mentioned though on Twitter. You didn't, you didn't hate that that he let the fight go on a little more. Actually, I didn't hate it because was the guy that lost as I did say his name? The guy lost. As Azaatar. As Azeiator. Unfortunately for I Zaytar, the problem was he was actually still, like, it was a bit of that Calvin Cater situation. Like, every time you thought he should stop the fight, he would still defend himself properly.

He was moving. He was getting out of the way. But then, I don't even know the fighter's name. It was so long ago. The guy that won. Blasadio, yeah. Yeah, he just kind of, he never got too crazy. He just never lost position.

and he just it could have been stopped I don't mind it not being stopped I understand the optics looked ugly you know because his head rocked back a couple of times

but I'm okay of it but I guess he was like he was like mostly done heading into that third round like he was already like in he was gas travel yeah the referee

and he was going to let up recognize that yeah the referee has to recognize that for sure so I didn't hate it but I understand the issue of it. Do we have issues?

But there were no issues? I mean, I thought the O'Malley stoppage. I thought everything was fine. I mean, the fights are crazy. It happens, but. Val is bad. Other than that. I didn't think it was that egregious.

The tripping of the fighter. Okay, that was, what he dropped is, okay, everything was kind of weird because he did, that was the fight, right? His mouthpiece just fell out. that was it he just kind of bent over I think the ref thought

he was knocked out but then he realized I think he was about to stop a fight day because that's that's what to me I thought I didn't even see

the mouthpiece thing I thought he was like just like he got hit and he was just like ugh you know just wobbled I think the fighter I think the ref

was trying to stop the fight then and then he goes oh wait a minute you're just bending over for for like he pulled a Bisbing Andrews anderson Silver like hey my mouthpiece

you know he tried to call it time on he's like hold on one second let me go go back on the other yeah um

I'm seeing something too streams now. I'm saying two streams now on our. Did none one delete the last one? I thought someone deleted the last one. No, I'm saying two streams now. And then so anyway, so the link and it's like it's a different link now. But yeah, I'll admit, look, look, I thought that was, I thought he was rocked. It was a very weird angle. Like, I thought he was rocked. And then when they showed the replay, I was like, oh, like, I didn't even see, like, did Barrio even hit him with anything? And then I saw the Jaron Vell trip And I was like

Oh, Jaron, you've really made a meal out of this one, Jaron. You've really made a meal out of this one. So yeah, no, but outside of that, the very first fight of the night, Markbeth, maybe probably a little more decisive at the end of the Ovali Al-Mada fight and Herbdine, maybe slightly out of place, but when you're doing a heavyweight fight,

that kind of movement, the way in Gondomiojit you're moving in there, I don't think it's, I think it's impossible to that occasion. to be caught in the wrong position. So we're very critical of Herb Dean usually, and I would have loved if he could have saved Miochich from that very, very, very scary post-KHO

Hamerfit. Like that was, that was, that's one of those shots. When you watch it in slow motion over and over again, you're just going to wince and cringe, like that's, and just be scared for, you know, Mioch's long-term health. That's how scary that Hammerfist was, completely unprotected shot. But I can't blame Herb Dean for a time.

He was, he was, I think he was shouting, calling off the fight. If you're in Ghanu, you're not hearing any of that. You're in the middle of this finishing flurry. And yeah, so he was maybe a little opposition, but he dove in as soon as he could. So I don't blame Herbden for that one. But, yeah, other than Jaron Vallel, I thought it was good. Judging, I thought was pretty good, too.

Mike, I don't know. How did you feel about all the judging? I actually thought they did all right. Yeah, we had a couple. Oh, I know what we were going to talk about. We had a couple of minor controversies. There was nothing that would necessitate a robbery review. I'll put it that way.

I thought Medesis Pekoscus won. I thought too much, too much was put on Olegzecchuk just moving forward. Like, it was all about the pressure. Like, Poccus is landing way more. Well, there was a, so there was a double problem. So I thought a Lechik also landed the beer shots. So that's why I scored. I scored it for, I scored it for, what's it?

How do, O. O. O.L.A. O.L.A. Say how Buffer said it. What did he? What did he say? Oh, my God. That was. He said, he said, oh, chick, check, check. He just like went chuck, check, Mike. I was still drilling from Barryu. I was still drilling from Mark Andre Berryu. That one hurt me. Olexeychuk. There we go. Olexeych. I thought he was landing the bigger shots. But I hated that, as you said, Mike, that the way Rogan and D. D.C. framed it after was immediately, they clearly didn't agree with the decision. and they were saying it was because of the aggression because he was coming forward. So now that's what everyone's going to interpret it. I actually do think if you watch the fight again, I think Alex Echik was landing the harder shots

or it looked like he was landing the harder shots because Bukascus was countering beautifully. And he was landing a lot of hard shots. It's just hard to gauge because the reaction, he was selling it a bit more. Also, probably a lot of Olexeyech's, like he was doing some hard shots. And I thought Bukascus was blocking a lot of them too.

So again, maybe I was fooled by that. Maybe I thought more of those went through than actually did. But yeah, it was very close. The other controversy was the 3027s for Jane Robertson. I had no, sorry, brand Maverick, excuse me, which I had no issue with. I had no issue with. I thought the round two was such a clear round for Robertson. That's what a lot of those said.

Absolutely clear. To the point where like if their submission was in a little deeper, she had such control of her Maverick that entire round outside the last like maybe 15 seconds. I thought it was like if you had a half point round, but like a 10, 10, 8 and a half. and I was like, I was like, what? For me, the difference would have been if she had thrown in a little bit of ground and pound, if she had thrown in some damage,

because for me, it's like, so I, you know, I'm starting to really strictly kind of look at fights through the, whatever, the official, you know, unified rules of scoring. And like damage, damage takes precedence over everything. So I'm not saying random Averick, like, totally ran away with the damage, but, but, but, Julian Roberts, position, position changes and control are,

are not supposed to be ranked above damage. Unless, unless the damage is even, unless the damage is even, which it clearly, which it wasn't. Because even when, even when Gillian Robertson was holding Brandon Maverick, Maverick was actually punching her a lot. I'm not saying she was doing a lot of damage, but Robertson was doing no damage.

So the damage was not equal. The damage was clearly in Maverick's favor, and that is how you are supposed to score fights, is who actually did damage. That is some effed up judging criteria then. Because according to that, then, I could have you on the ground, have you in a choke.

You could be fighting a choke for four minutes and 55 seconds. But if you just go like this, hit me one time. Oh, well, you got more damage. That's more damage. That's exactly what you're saying, man. That's not that. It's not exactly what you're saying. Moving on.

She did not come close to finishing. No, I'm telling you a hypothetical round. Because you said if damages all that matters, if damage is all that matters. And you only go to grappling and control. I would consider nearly finishing a submission as damage. But they, but she was caught. She was defending submissions. She was defending submissions, almost that whole around.

Exactly. Exactly. We're going to rewatch that. She defended them all. She was not close to being finished. She was at no point close to being finished. Yeah, because that's like more, you know, but being close to being finished doesn't mean that's not,

so you have to be close to being finished? You don't get points for almost landing punches either. So I don't give points for almost getting submissions unless it's really in deep, which it wasn't. But that's completely subjective then. It's like if it's in deep. Judging. Judging is in deep.

So she's defending a choke like this and she's got her chin tucked in. That's not considered in deep? I think the judges can tell the difference. Did you think that a Miranda Maverick was in any serious danger during that round? I thought it was such an easy 10-9, almost a 10-8, because she had so much back-and-roll. Control, control. Control, control is not part of the-all-backed the whole round. Control is only part of the scoring criteria if it results in some sort of damage,

or I would say, again, like a really close submission. If you're just controlling, that is secondary to damage. That's in the criteria. I know. I know how it looks. Gentlemen, gentlemen, gentlemen, gentlemen, gentlemen, gentlemen. I made a decision. You and Sean Sheenan.

are the only people in the entire world. You two people who know how to judge fights properly. I know. Sean Sheen, if you follow Sean Sheen, he's really, really good at understanding the criteria. So I told, and I admit, I adhere to kind of a lot of the things that he says. So, so maybe me and him are on an island on this one. But again, watch the videos he's done on how to score fights. Eric McGracken has also done videos recently on how to score fights.

And you'll understand why those 30, 27s exist. I actually thought the judges did a really good time. I thought she had been control. The submissions weren't deep enough. It was definitely such an easy run of our operations. Control it's secondary to damage. It was almost no damage. Oh, man.

All right. Hold on. Hold on. Watch it again. Watch it again. Guys. Guys, we got like five minutes.

Oh, my gosh. That's right. And we haven't answered a single question. All right. Go to question. It's got to answer something. Jeez. I'm just bring Jet on the show now.

He'll agree with me. He'll agree with me. You don't want you. You don't want that. Oh, never mind. I saw some of his tweets tonight. I don't want him on the show. He was still like, eish.

All right, here we go. All right, readers. Readers and listeners. It's a big question, right? What happens to turn Woodley? It's a big one. I don't like this. I'm saving my answer for onto the next one.

Because I thought about this. I'll address it. So, Paul OJ specifically saying, Dana had a one hanging statement about him. The hanging statement was he was asked, what do you think is next for Tyron now that he's lost, you know, after this performance and then I think literally said,

I think he said, how old is he? He said, how old is he? He said, he's four in a row now for Tyron. What, 30, 39 years old? Yeah. And so that would, yeah. But that was Dana's statement. That was it.

It was like six words. And didn't, and that did not really make a conclusive statement about his next retiring. A lot of people seem to infer that he was saying that's it that he's done. say anything clearly. I think it'll come down to sort of what we discussed a lot earlier in the week of like, we'll see how much of a pay cut Tyron might be willing to take because for the

right price, I'm sure Dana White will be happy to use, you know, Woodley's reputation and name to sell a fight and possibly boost up another fighter. I don't know. But yeah, I'm of the camp. I do think he gets another UFC fight, but he's a big ticket item. And if the UFC was going to cut I mean, now it would make a lot of sense. Apparently it was his last fight under his contract too, so not technically to cut, but yeah, same thing. Yeah, it sucks for Woodley. It's just a money thing. It's not because Woodley's not a competitive watcher weight anymore.

He's not top five. But, yeah, Woody, I expect Willie to be of a different organization if he chooses to continue fighting. You'll get the choice of one. he'll get the choice of one matchup or he will be gone. Yeah, he has to fight next week too. What he fought tonight, guys?

Might give him the JDS treatment. Wasn't it nice to see him fight to actually really fight tonight? He fought, he fought tonight, right? He didn't get back up against the cage. He didn't get held down. He fought, you know? I always said like,

wow, it's the best wood we've ever seen and he gets knocked out. It started out so good, though. All right. Yeah, there we go. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you guest fighters for joining us. I don't know what happened. That was like an old one. I don't know what happened. All right. Let me find a question. While you're doing that, someone is saying I value damage more with control, but I scored Suhudo versus DJ2 for Sehudo because all I did was land.

Yes, because DJ did no damage and Sehudo didn't do any damage. So you go to control as a secondary score. Thank you for commenting. Okay, sorry. Mike, go ahead. Would Steepie even want a rematch? I mean, I would rather work my confidence up against others first. I mean, I would say Steve would probably want the rematch.

Not tomorrow or anytime soon. Maybe not this year. I mean, everybody's going to publicly say they want the rematch. I don't know if Steepie really wants the rematch. But I'm sure he does, actually. I mean, I mean, Big payday, obviously. He's got like one more left.

Like, that's the fight you'd probably want, right? Yeah. Well, he has a lot. We're getting close. We're getting close. No matter what he says, we're getting close. If Steepa doesn't get the rematch, what does he need to do to earn the rematch?

I think it's just one win away. I think it's just one to win away. Derek Lewis. I would, again, yeah, Derek Lewis, right? We haven't seen that fight. They fought, both guys have fought everybody except each other. Yeah. He could also, he could also just be, again, sort of as White alluded to today,

he said, I have other heavyweights who want to take this fight, John Jones. So for some reason, John Jones prices himself out, and Derek Lewis prices himself out, which I can't imagine he would. But if that happens, then it's like, hey, Steve, come on down. Come on down and get your immediate rematch. I think we should change the language. We keep saying the fighter prices himself out. I think that really puts the blame on the fighter.

I think we just say if the UFC pays the fighter their worth maybe. Yes. Or in this case, or in this case, refuses to pay, yeah. Refuses to pay this guy. Yeah, you're right. That's a better way. Because I feel like every time we're saying that, we're kind of blaming the fighters. It sounds because I know we're on the same page here, but I just, yeah.

I'll take one more question. I know we'd want to go longer, but we have a lot still to do, unfortunately. We've got stories, yeah, we've got stories to do. What the heck? Sorry, look of a more question. Sorry. We have these exciting cards. Oh, yeah.

That John Jones, Lewis, John Jones in gun and fight has to happen. I kind of agree with Mike's optimism. Like, they'll find a way. They'll find a way. I want to believe that. They'll find a way. This is the fight. You have to make it.

Do you think Stipei should have retired after the Cormier trilogy fight? Stepe had the opportunity of retiring on top. Mietch is still the goat, but this lost stings. I don't know. That's so tough to answer those kinds of questions, you know, because we're not these people. We don't know where the motivation comes from. No idea.

And he looked pretty damn good in those last two Cormier fights. I thought the whole last, I don't even count Steepay DC 3 as a real fight. I thought there should have been a no contest due to all the dang eyepokes that the refs never saw that we clearly saw, you know. Dude, D.C. had to go to the freaking hospital. He didn't even have time. He couldn't even do it with retirement. Like, hey, thanks for, thanks to everyone.

I had a great time. Thank you, Dana. Thank you, Hunter. You had to go to the freaking hospital, make sure his eyeball works. You know, so, yeah, I thought. And that's why I think Steve A should have retired that last. fight because it was just marred by eye poaks and it wasn't like i don't know but it'd been weird i think stepey i think he i think he wanted to go out on a on a clean win you know a clean victory but uh

but to answer this question no i mean yeah and look i think some of some of these fighters even though uh would they reach a certain point where they they they're becoming you know we're going on top becomes very important to them i think tyron woodley said this week he's like i need to go out on top something to that effect um i don't know i think when you're when you're not in a slump when you're kind of cruising along and winning and winning and winning, then that last, that last win isn't as important, you know, because, look, Steve has had a lot of success

outside of, he lost to Cormey and that's it, right? And then other than that, he's had amazing success as a champion and the lead-up to becoming a champion. And it feels good. I bet he seems to enjoy the process of training, of fighting and preparing. He seems to enjoy whatever the money that comes with it. Probably could be a bit higher, but I'm seeing to enjoy it.

So it's hard. It's hard when you, actually at his age. He's at the age when I think if he retire, that's it. I just don't see him coming. coming back. So for a lot of fighters, that's, well, again, then he had Oscar Delahoeia's coming back and Mike Tyson thing. So I mean, this, you know, whatever, 10 years from now, 10 years from now, Triller will be doing their MMA legacy series. But, but realistically speaking, as far as that, competing at the highest possible level he can, that's a small window. And once you close that, you pretty much don't get to go back to it. So yes, I know for most of us, it sounds insane, wind of not wanting to go on top and wind to fight in Ganu. But again, like we said earlier, he's cut from different cloth than we are. And, and, uh, maybe. He'll regret it later when he sees the footage and when he feels the actor affects those and got new punches. But no, I don't think he need to walk away on top of Sterling.

I have my pick. You'll hear it tomorrow. Yeah, yeah. I'm not going to name. You don't have to give a pick. It's not. Yeah, yeah. It's not a top 15 guy.

I can tell you that right now. I agree. But again, I think because, and I think we had a similar question about, who was it? Someone last week, I think, or recently we had. I don't know if it was a Yanaz or something, that we had a similar question. Are they ready for like a top 20 or something of that? Or could they be?

And it's not an indictment of O'Malley's skills. He looks, look, say what you want about the kid's personality. He looks, he's such a fun part to watch. Man, he's so exciting in there. He really captures the imagination. And that's, you know, that's what you want in a future star. It's just that top of Dean is so deep in Bantz and weight too. Yeah, it's really, really deep.

And I think we already see a lot of matchups that are kind of seem to be materializing or close to materializing, and he just doesn't fit in there yet. Is he worthy of a top 15 opponent? Yes. Will he get a top 15 opponent next? Unless they give him Frank Yeager. What's wrong of running back, O'Malley, Vera?

I think Dana made a great point. It's always there. It's there forever. Why go to it now? I think that he's great. I think that's the one chance. You can give, not one chance, But right now, I think O'Malley Vera, there's enough heat behind that that you could make, that can make an event in a fight night.

I don't think Vera wants that fight right now. Why don't think he cares? He feels, he feels like he won. He beat him. Yeah, he beat him. He beat him. He finished his first round. He's not as hung up on it as O'Malley is.

I don't see very much difference between that. And we talked about this earlier, but the premise, Chandler kind of that fight. And so I'm kind of, I'm kind of, I'm kind of in the O'Malley camp on that one. You know, it's, you know, they're. Well, let's have a, I get, I get Windsor. I get Windsor, Windsor, you know, he gets a W. He gets double check, you know, Sean Amalley has that L now. I get that.

It's official. But I do, you know, I do, I do think, I do see O'Malley's thinking, you know, okay, it was kind of a freakish kick, you know, he can hit a weird nerve. Like he said, like the one that knocked him out was like his toe or something. Like his foot hit his ankle and just hit that nerve. So I get, I get, I get. I get the problem is O'Malley says so many things. We actually does say something I think is correct.

Like no one kind of listens because there's so much kind of other filler out there. It was just one kick, though. It was many kicks. Well, the one kick that started it, but he didn't, he just didn't go down from that. He actually went down from strikes. But without that foot there for him, it led to him getting more kicks and more punches and more elbows and everything. I get how it was finished, but it was all from that one injury earlier in the fight. Yeah.

Yeah. I, but it's also, Cheeto said many times he has no interest in taking that fire right now. It doesn't make sense for to take that fire. A slight visual difference, which you mentioned before, which is like, Cheeto at least got to throw on some ground and pound.

Remember, that fight has ruled a TKO, not due to injury, like the official record is, and then the last image of the Chandler fight was him falling off the stool. So then force it, or sorry,

no stool behind him and falling out of that. So it was a little bit, but that was after the fight was stopped. The whole falling on the stool was after the fight was stopped. It wasn't, it wasn't in between rounds or anything. It was after the fight was stopped.

And then the channel was like going, why are you going to stop the fight? I want to still fight. I thought that's what led. I thought that's what led to it. It led to the humiliation. The fight was already stopped. And he was like complaining because if you watch again, the fight was already over. Yeah, yeah.

And then he. I will say, though, the ground and pound. The ground of pound that Cheeto got to get, I think makes enough a difference for people in people's minds. But he got there because O'Malley only had one leg. But it was the ground of pound that stopped the fight. Officially, officially, it was the ground and. Yeah, but that's not how we, that's not the story of the fight. So I think that I...

Like Kings are banned in the rematch? No, no, no, no. No, no. I mean, what can you do? What else do the guy have to do to win the fight? That's why? I don't know. I mean, I can't like...

It was a freak, it was a freak spot like just one premise. Premis is a very good fighter and for Bellator, but it hit Chandler in kind of a weird spot and it just dead at his leg. It means a legit win, but I think it's also room for a rematch. Right, but that is not the first time that's happened to O'Malley. That's the third time that's happened to O'Malley. So it's not like it was just a freakish thing that's only happened one time ever. It's happened a few times to him. So which leads me to believe that Cheeto Vera had a good game plan, him and his team.

They knew where to land that kick. It wasn't people may say it's a freak thing, but maybe it wasn't. Because it's something that will be dealt with many times. I could see it happening again someday. I'm just, it's just not, like you said, I don't think Cheeto would want to do it. It has any reason to want to do it now. And I don't know. I don't know if there's that much demand for it.

You're not. No, he's not. He's not. He's not. He's not, he's not. It was his last fight was the lost to auto, correct? Am I, am I missing up? He wants to, he wants to fight.

Mara Mara Marlon right now, I think. Marlon. Marlon. You know what, the Bantamway is the best division in the world right now. So it doesn't matter. You can just throw it out against anyone. It's a cool fight. There's no bad matchup.

There's not that storyline wise. I think there's a story there in story sale. That's all. Yeah. We don't need to. But it's like we said, it's always there. Always there. Right now, yes.

I say yes. All of them. I want them all. Pancakes. French toast is the correct answer, though. Really? I'm a waffle man. Casey.

I'm going to go French toast. I'm going to French toast. Oh, yeah, French. I'm changing my of pancakes, actually. I'm changing my of pancakes. That's too for French toast. Weirdo. Whoa.

Whoa. This is like that random part in that draft, that movie draft day, that movie draft day where Kevin Costa caused a guy a pancake eating mother effort for some reason. And I'm like, whoa, what? Whoa. Why was that? What was that?

One last question. One quick one. One quick one. Real quick. I'll go out of here. It's got to be good. I lied. Oh, well, that's a shame.

All right. We are going to be talking. We are going to be talking about this card for the next five days. Don't you worry about it. We have no event next weekend. Perfect question right here. Ace thought A-side live chat later this week. A-side.

Last chat. Mike, your show. What the heck will be out later this week? Oh, NACA, we have to have a little meeting after we're done because we're going to talk about maybe an unveiling of a show. Number? Oh, I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah, yeah. We don't want, no.

I know what you're talking about. Yeah. Between the links later this week, you guys will be talking about. Like what USC 26? There'll be a lot of USC2-66 talk, guys. Yeah. Yes, we got you covered. Don't worry about it.

But in the meantime, in between time, good night, everybody. AK for Casey, I am Mike Hack. Thank you for watching. Hope you enjoyed the card tonight. We'll see you down the road. You are all our guest fighters. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.