MMA Fighting - UFC 262 Post-Fight Show

Episode Date: May 16, 2021

With UFC 262 in the books, MMA Fighting’s Mike Heck, Alexander K. Lee and E. Casey Leydon break down the top storylines following Saturday night’s event in Houston, including Charles Oliveira becoming the new lightweight champion after his second-round TKO win over Michael Chandler in the thrilling main event. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Alexander K. Lee: @AlexanderKLee Follow E. Casey Leydon: @ekc Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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So download the app today and get $0 delivery fees on your first three orders. Instacart, groceries that over-deliver. Service fees exclusions in terms apply. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. That's right. We're back. UFC 262 in the books. We have a new lightweight champion in Charles Olivera.

And we're here to talk with all of you about everything that happened tonight in Houston, Texas. This is the UFC 262 post-fight show. I am Mike Heck. Thank you for watching. Hope you guys enjoyed the card. It was pretty crazy, pretty chaotic. And it ended in, in fact. fashion, also joined by the Prince positivity, Alex K. Lee.

Yeah. Here he is. Yeah, I'm here. I'm here. And I'm feeling positive. I love a lot of the things we saw tonight. Good. And on the ones and twos, we got Casey Liding.

Go ahead, Casey. I'm just wondering, is AK, are you inside an egg? What is this? I'm inside. Yeah, I'm inside an egg. I'm actually inside of an egg. I find it's a good recording studio. I like the acoustics in it.

I'm inside. Yes, I'm inside a massive egg. There you go. Well, listen, kind of like the pre-fight shows, we like to turn it over to the peeps. We're going to do that for most of this program as well. I mean, Casey, already sort of responded to the main event, but AK, you are now here.

We have a new champion in Charles Olivera. The fight was bananas. Oliver takes Chandler's back. Looks like things are getting pretty dicey. Chandler explodes out. drops all it hurts olivera badly almost finishes the fight and then the second round begins and old new bronx 19 seconds into the second round puts michael chanther away crazy fight your thoughts on the finish and olivera having that championship belt wrapped around his waist

charles olivera i tweeted this earlier he is then he is now the best lightweight in the world that's right i i've been i've been i've been i've been trumpeting this all week I've been saying this since the Ferguson fight that I thought he at least has a claim to it. Obviously, Habib still existed was sort of still a thing at the time. So, you know, he couldn't be number one. But I was like, you know, I'd said that was a compelling matchup. I'd see that. That didn't happen.

When I saw he got the vacant title fight, I said, okay, this to me is, crowns the best. It's great. And there's certainly many, many, many worthy challenges out there who could, who knows, who could end this title run before it begins. Dustin Fourier, Justin Gaith. G. Again, if people want to talk about Patricia Pitbull because he beat Chandler, well, I guess actually that's out of the equation now. We don't really have to discuss that because Chandler didn't win. So really, we're thinking Olivera, Porriere, G, and say, Conrader, he beats

Poirier, let's be honest, if we're doing MMA math. So there's names, you know, there's names out there, there's going to finish from. But it's a great moment. I mean, we should really should just focus on him. What an amazing fight that was. I think that's, I know it was only a one round fight in 19 seconds. That's one of my favorite fights of the year. It was just so, so good and so high level. And congrats to both guys for putting on an awesome fight. But especially to Del Bronx for really fulfilling this potential that so many people said he had.

And 28, in his 28th UFC fight, he gets the job done. So just an amazing story. Yeah, couldn't really say it better. Casey, I just wanted to get your reaction to one thing Charles Oliver said at the press conference. because I thought he knocked out of the park, but I found it very interesting that he was asked about, you know, can you finally say that you're no longer a featherweight

and he still has not closed the door on this? Like, this is something else. Like, what did you think of that response from Charles Oliverer saying? Listen, if the UFC called me tomorrow and said, you want to go back to 45,

I would take it. That's kind of my favorite part about Charles Oliverer and also maybe like the biggest problem with him is from a promoter standpoint. Like, I don't, like, he's not a 45er. He wasn't, he wasn't highly successful at 45. He looked horrible at 45, like, his body. Like, like, I, actually, when I kind of,

my kind of pre-fight critique analysis of what I thought was going to happen, I kind of, kind of was questioning Charles Oliver's durability against, you know, high-level fighters. But I really think I was, I was thinking, thinking of the featherweight Charles Alteverer, who clearly doesn't have the same durability, has the gentleman that we saw tonight by Michael Chandler. So, it's just Charles Oliverer, he's, he's a quirky dude. That's all.

He's a quirky dude. But he is the UFC champion, according to A.K. Lee, the best 55er in the world. Yeah, I mean, in some people's eyes, that still remains to be seen. I think right now, it's, you know, to quote our good friend, Mark Romney, it's a legitimate champion right there. He's a legitimate champion. That was a hell of a performance. He got it done. And lots of options, lots of big fights awaits Mr. Dubranks whenever that time comes.

Seems like he kind of likes the idea of fighting Connor, just planting those seeds. He was kind of like no-sold it. And then he went after it a little bit and said, I'll put him on his ass. But then his pocketbook and his brain went, whoa, whoa, what are you doing, Charles? Let's make this fight happen. Yeah, back up the Brings truck and get back on the microphone and respond to that. So big win for Olivera.

Tough, tough night for Michael Chandler. Just you feel for the guy. He almost had the fight at one. He was so close. But that's fighting, man. If there's a way to lose, though, I would kind of say this was maybe the best way to lose for Michael Chandler in the sense that, like we talked about this during the post-presser, if they fought 50 times, I'm sure it'll go 25, 25 each way,

and it'll be 50 different outcomes, you know, just 50 different fights. So there was nothing in this fight that suggested Michael Chandler didn't deserve this fight or can't hang with the top-level dudes in the UFC. Nothing that suggests that. It's just Charles Laud Avere won tonight. And like Michael Chandler said, 2,000 times. He should have zigged when he zagged.

Chandler was a bad referee stoppage away from becoming the leg. Because in the first round, when he really badly hurt Olavera, and O'Olavera dropped to his knees, I believe now looking back that it was intentional for Oliver, he was dropping down to change levels, change positions, and get a take down. But I thought for a second, I'm like, man, there are other referees who I won't name

who might have read that the wrong way. I think since Chandler landed some shots on him. It's not like Chandler stopped swinging. As soon as he dropped to his knees, Chandler was still tagging him. There are other referees who might have said, oh, this guy's heard, I'm going to jump in and save him. Thank goodness that didn't happen.

Dan Berkla had a very solid veteran. He's had some mistakes here and there as any referee has, but he read the situation perfectly. He knew who the, you know, he knows the fighters that are involved. He knows Olivera is a courser ground guy. He's going to go for that. So I, but I was scared from him.

And I thought, oh, no, is this going to get stopped? And even in the moment, I'll be honest to you. I probably wouldn't have complained at the time. It's why after, like, Oliver was shot, I'm not sure if that happened. Oliver would have shot right up and been like, no, I'm fine. So I wouldn't have complained, but it was, that was touch and go for that, like, that five-second window in there. So, but thankfully, that didn't happen. And I think we got the right for winner. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I think we said, we said that if that bite would have been stopped, I think we would have complained it was early stoppage. But we also said, well, I've seen earlier.

so yeah yeah you're like that position yeah you can't put yourself the position but man it's just I'm like I'm actually like literally kind of tired right now just because I think of the the emotion of watching that fight it's just you know what I mean it's just like I'm just like

like that so yeah I'm just I just didn't expect such it I kind of thought coming to this fight even though Oliver course could win but I really thought it was going to be one way traffic though I thought once one fighter kind of took control, that's where it was going. And I was wrong. I was wrong.

I was wrong. And it was one of those times, like, it's fun to be wrong. Yeah, Michael Chandler was a Chris Tione or a Keith Peterson away from being the UFC lightweight champion. I was, I wasn't naming names, Mike. Mike, come on. Now we end up out. He's just naming names.

We're never going to get an exclusive Chris Tione now. If I was naming names, I was. living names, I obviously would have said Erf Dean. But again, I'm not, so I didn't. Okay. Oh, man. All right, what are what are the peeps saying? Let's go to the

peeps. We're ready for the peep. Let's go straight. Let me say one last thing. The whole card, I gave it a solid 7.5. Out of, out of, not out of 10, out of a potential 8.5. I know people didn't see my gymnastics scoring thing earlier this week, but I said this card had

8.5 potential if everything went right. I thought it was a very good card overall. So I'll go 7.5 and I think if people watch it again, maybe without commentary, they'll have a, they'll appreciate sort of the Bonterrain-Schnell fight, which I thought was great. That was weird. I thought the

commentators were kind of... It was weird, yeah. I was like, this is a fine fight. It's just, maybe just... I just don't think they knew they were. I didn't hate the Chicagian fight. I didn't hate that you... I know it was a a Caitlin Chikian fight. I know it's become very at least among

us in the media very like, you know, on vogue to make fun of kind of her very active, not necessarily super impactful style. I actually thought she fought really. I thought her jab looked amazing today. I thought her jab was effing up, uh, the left side of our face. So I thought you can look good today. I'm just going to be honest. I know, I know if people like to make fun of her style, but I thought that was decent. I thought she lost the fight. I'm not like, I'm not screaming robbery. I scored it for a row ago. But I just close. But I thought I originally won the first two rounds. I definitely thought you won round two.

Yeah, I'm doing one of those close fight, not a robbery type things. Yeah, it's definitely not a robbery. The 3027 for Chican, Tom Foolery. That is a garbage sport card. And Barbosa Burgos obviously lived up to the hype. That was just fantastic. Yeah, good stuff. So good.

So good. Oh. You know, okay, we have, because we, haven't got any questions on it and I think I got forgotten all the mess. Can we talk about the biggest robbery of the night, Mr. Heck? Yes, let us talk about the biggest robbery. Real quick.

Kind of a cliffhanger on the other, on the Post-Faer Press conference show. So we talked about Houston being a potential robbery hub because of the judges. We saw some crappy scorecards, but there were no all-out robberies tonight. The one robbery, I think

we can discuss, was in the bonuses, because No disrespect to Christos Gagos, that was a great win. Another guy who battled back from adversity, because Sean Soriano looked pretty darn good on the feet in the first round of that fight. Gets a submission win, gets $75,000. Charles Oliveira, $75,000, rightfully so. Fight of the night, Shane Burgos versus Edson Barbosa. Why the hell did Andre Munez not get a $75,000 bonus tonight?

I mean, are you kidding me right now? Are you kidding me? That is a, to quote the great guerrilla monsoon, that is a miscarriage of justice. That might be submission of the year. That's going to be hard to be as far as submission of the year to freaking break Jacques Ray's arm in like, what, three minutes or whatever in a one-sided fight? Unreal. And then just, I don't know.

Come on, come on. And then they gave it to another submit. I was like, I was good, they must hate submissions. Then they gave it to another submission that was, well, cool. Jeez, man, you didn't break Jacqueray's arm. Dude, even if he didn't break Jacqueray's arm, the fact that she submitted Jacaree in any way should automatically get you a bonus, automatically. And then the arm breaks just gnarly.

But, I mean, well, come on. Go ahead. Here's my devil's advocate. No, I absolutely agree. I did. If I'm picking between the Giego submission and the Muni's submission, Muni's all the wait. Oh, first, he submitted Jacaree. Yeah, I'm going to hear to say that.

Chagoree. He broke his arm. That's insane. I can hear the sound. I hear the same. I do. Just absolutely interesting. So I was just, sorry, while you guys were talking, I was bringing up, I was trying to look at the list of submissions we've had over since, I was going to say in the ESPN era, that goes pretty far back. I wonder if, and this is pure speculation, and again, I'm probably forgetting, I could be forgetting a very recent example. That's similar. I don't know. Are they, because it was such an ugly.

finish because it was like an arm snapping, are they maybe trying to steer away from, you know, such a injurious finish? I know that sounds silly because I mean... I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. You remember Chris Whiteman's leg went like this or something? And then Dana White tweeted out the video saying, oh, look at the quickest stoppage ever. They even throw a strike. Dana White did that. Not ESPN. You're a while.

It's a difference. No, there's a difference, right? ESPN would not have tweeted out something like that, right? Tell me so tasteless. And just kind of grotesque. Again, people in the comments, please correct me if I'm wrong. If there's some other break that happened recently and I'm just completely blanking on it or some like insanely bloody, like, brutal finish that got like replayed a million times of the broadcast.

Please tell me because, yeah, I'm just kind of just glancing over the bonuses from the last, whatever, 20, 30 events. and it's all a bit of a blur. So yeah, I'm wronging with these things all the time. But that's really my only explanation. I have no idea why you wouldn't give Muniz a bonus. Like you said, that could end up being our submission of the year when we make our list at the end. So, yeah, it's just absurd. I wonder if it's because, like, Jocker didn't tap or anything.

Like, the doctor just caught the break. Yeah, I don't know. Just stopped the fight. And Jokoray was just like, oh, nice submission. and like straight face the whole thing. Like just got his arm snapped. It was just like, oh. Yeah.

Nicely done, sir. Let us meet tomorrow for some brunch and a cup of coffee. Like, didn't even like, not a grimace of pain. And then look at Tony Ferguson and that heel hook, two totally different things. Oh. Don't remind me that. That was, yeah, that looked almost worse. And somehow that kept going on.

But remember when Neger got his arm broken by Frank Muir? Yes. He kind of did the same thing. It snapped. And you just kind of looked at his arm like, Hmm, this must be a malfunction. Such as life. This is not the first time this has happened.

Take us to the back and I'll just milk, I'll just milk Gibson this thing and just, I'll just crank it. Can you imagine if the referee, like, didn't catch that? He would have kept fighting. He would have kept fighting. Oh. But you know, I appreciated Munis.

Munis actually, Munis, is that you pronounce it? Mines. Munez. Munez. Yeah. Munez. I said Munez, yeah. I appreciate him kind of going,

kind of the Jiu-Jitsu code. He actually said he let go of the submission as soon as he felt the arm break because he said in his, I think, post-presser something about, you know, oh, then I could do, if I wanted to keep going, I could have done much more serious, like permanent, permanent, permanent damage.

I'm assuming, like, completely ripped the muscles and stuff. So good on him. And, yeah, and somehow in all this talk, I feel like he is going to be completely, kind of forgotten about somehow. And I remember thinking, like, oh, man, this guy might be the star of the night. We didn't even talk about him all Fight Week. I was like, oh, Jacques-Rey versus

this dude. And who knows who knows how good he is? He might mean next Charles Alda-Vare in a sense. Sure. He's 3-0 now, right? Three-and-0? Something like that. In the UFC? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think one of the reporters asked Dana about, you know, when you signed Charles

Oliver when he was like six years old or whatever two thousand years ago, did you know he was going to be a champ? And I think Dana couldn't even lie. Danny couldn't even go, oh, I saw a potential. Dana was like, you never know. And who knows? The manis, you know, being Jacques-Rae, who knows, like, in a couple years, this guy is going to be the guy that, oh, he's going to be a champ.

It looks good so far. Yeah, he looks good, man. So I was incredibly impressed. Casey, can we start off with this question? I don't know if you see this one from Boyo, Boio, Boio. It's a Chandler question. It's a Chandler question. His name is Boio, Boyo, Boyo.

scroll up a little bit. The Chandler. Yes, I actually like this question. Yes, I actually like this question. Here we go. Chandler was getting a supreme back rub from the UFC and it didn't work out. Why can't they just push both fighters equally? I don't really know how to go ahead.

Okay. Oh, no. So, yeah, I'll start. So I know, Mike, you've been on, you've been on the post-fighted press conference for like the last hour. So a little bit for your mind here. But, yeah, so, no, I get it's a legitimate question. because I think the U.C. did, by the, by the,

by the, by the, an excellent job, promoting Chandler. We've talked about it since he was supposed to be a backup for the, was it for the Gaithji Habib fight? Yes. Right? He's a backup. Yeah, on Fight Island.

They had the promo prepared for that, which was unseen before for a Beltor guy. Like, they almost never even mentioned the word Beltor. And it feels like when they're talking about Chandler, he's like one of the guys that they'll just mention it. They want to mention how accomplished he is and all that stuff. So, you know, great job promoting. He's very active with the media, so credit goes to him as well.

He never says no to any interviews. He's just constantly out there, which is, you know, a love, hate thing. Some people are sick of his face already and two UFC fights in. Some people are like, oh, this is great. This is the guy the UFC should be pushing. And obviously the UFC feels that way. So why don't they push them equally? Well, here's the thing is when when do you go all in on a fighter and it pays off,

the rewards for the UFC are enormous. So I get it. They probably end up, if we were looking back, on it. They probably miss more often than not. I mean, look, in Ghanu in the first steep fight, they were pushing him like crazy. It didn't quite work out. We've seen it before. It's a Northcutt, of course, the guy they're pushing for a long time. It just didn't quite work out. But again, when you hit on someone like a McGregor on a Habib, nobody remembers the misses. I should say, the majority of the people who tune in and

get hooked on these stars like McGregor and Habib and all these guys, they don't remember that stuff. And so it doesn't matter. So, Maybe it didn't work out with Chandler this time around. They can move on to the next guy. Maybe they get behind no Bronx now. You know what I mean? So there's as cynical as it kind of sounds, there's a reason to kind of put all your chips in on one fighter and hope it works out.

Otherwise, they're the UFC. They can always course correct. There's really no major downside to getting these things wrong for them. So I totally understand what they do with Chandler. He could still be a star someday. So either way, they maybe have laid the groundwork for it. So, yeah, in a perfect world. every fighter in these kind of big fights would be pushed equally

and fans would whoever won the fans would get behind that guy and create a star it doesn't work that way unfortunately yeah um I mean again and I think the key word for both of these guys is timing like I just think the timing worked out for Chandler in such a big way like just getting the Dan Hooker fight like I feel I feel like he and I'm not taking any anything away from the win because the win was amazing.

I think he caught Dan Hooker at the right time. And I'm not saying that Dan Hooker had an off night. I just think maybe he did. Who really knows the answer to that question? But I think he just caught him on the right card at the right time in the right place. And all of this is just perfect timing. And it's not just the perfect timing. It's how you handle the timing and what you do with the time afterwards.

Like Chandler cutting that. If Chandler just goes in there, he was like, uh, thanks. I love the UFC. like good stuff, but instead he cuts that Rick Flair promo and like just puts it over the top. And like people remembered that.

It's such a massive way. Like even with Connem O'Gregor and Dustin Porry in the main event and the way that fight ended, people are still talking about Michael Chandler equally as much. Like it was such a great moment for him. One interesting side note that I just saw from our colleague David Martin on Twitter,

I want to get your thoughts on this gentleman. Two judges gave Michael Chandler 10-8 first round. What do you think about that? Considering we both, we all kind of acknowledge if the ref wanted to stop the fight, we would have been okay. Yeah, I don't have an issue. I mean, the refs are, I mean, judges seem to be completely inconsistent what 10-8s are. But that did seem to be enough domination, domination and damage in that round.

So I give it, I give it. I'm okay of it. I thought, I thought Oliver, because he had the best. back control and was doing damage from back control too throwing actually a lot of punches from back control i thought that he had done enough to not to avoid getting 10-8ed but like like casey just said normally a near finish is what we would recall a 10-8 and and uh so maybe because i have the benefit of now looking at the round as a whole uh i would for me i would still stick with 10-9 but i guess if you're a judge and you're scoring it right after right after that moment too that's

kind of like how the round ended with with channel doing so much damage i could see how 10-8 be on your mind. So I disagree with it. I disagree with it. I don't like it. It's not like it's not even close to being the most egregious scores that we saw. Not at all. So I'm in Houston tonight. And I asked you back to this question by from boyo, boyo, boyo. It's a great handle. That's a great handle. Do you see got behind Chandler because Chandler knows how to sell himself? and this isn't a critique on Charles Oliver as a fighter. This is a critique on Charles Oliver as a prize fighter. We work in this industry.

I've seen Charles Oliver fight probably 28 times now. I think I've seen all of his fights. I know zero about him. I know he wears glasses. I know he's from Brazil. I know he used to train in the States. Now he lives in Brazil. That's really all I know about him.

Does he have a family? Is he have kids? I know I know he has a little. I know he has a rock, you know. Did he hold the rock? Is it a potato or something? No, maybe it's a potato. I'm not sure.

See, I don't know. And that's the problem. I know so much about Chandar, I feel like. Yeah. But I know nothing about it. Look, if it wasn't for the brilliant Gira May Cruz who wrote a long form on Charles Oliver this week, which, by the way, people, is even more relevant now. For some reason, you didn't read that feature in the lead-up to this card.

Read, please read, please read Guiz feature on Charles Overe and his upbringing and the insane difficulty he dealt with growing up as a child. Not just financial. He couldn't walk. They thought he wasn't able to walk when he was a child. But you're right, Casey. Before this week, I did not know about any of that stuff. And if it wasn't for Greene, I don't think the UFC does a great job of putting those, at least in Charles, Oliver's guys just say, because sometimes they grab some stories and push them really well.

I didn't think they pushed this stuff or dug for this stuff at all. So maybe I missed it, but I mean, we're pretty, all three of us and everyone in the media, we're pretty good at catching these stories with the come by. So one of us would have caught it. And I never hear anyone talking about it again before this week. So yeah, that is a very fair point. You have to promote yourself a bit, you know, if you're going to get that push. Yeah.

Yeah. I see a lot of that with Chandler. So, I mean, I get it, I guess. But, you know, if you're a fan of just, in Gagey, totally, totally understand you having a gripe with Chandler getting the shot and the promotional push and, you know, and some of the other newcomers they brought over. Like, remember not saying Manel Cape is like at the same level as Michael Chandler in terms of like how many people know who he is.

But, you know, Cape comes in and like secretly becomes the backup fighter for the figurato Moreno fight. No one knew like anything about him. I hadn't even made his debut yet coming over from Risen. I mean, he's 0 and 2 in the UFC now. Should be one in one, if we're being honest. But still, like, he didn't get anything, anything at all. Chandler was getting post, he was getting, he weighed in as the backup for the hubby,

gaugy fight. He got an interview during the card with, with Anik and all those, in DC and those guys. Like, they pushed him. And I, they should have. They should have. Because you got to build him up. You get to make him feel like he's a big deal, even if, especially in this division.

Like, even if you're going to throw him up there against the gauges and stuff like that, you don't want to make it seem like he is the B-level fighter or the B-League fighter like people like to say he is, and that's just so far from the truth because he proved it tonight. Yeah. But thank you, boyo, boy, boy, oh, I can say that a million times. Let's say it one more time.

One more time? So fun. You say it, AK. Boyo, boyo, boyo. Thank you for the question. What else we got? Who wants this one? Go ahead, Mike.

He's in that Seroni territory right now. I think that's fair to say. Who on Between the Links said that if Tony loses, that they could see Tony versus Cowboy again in a rematch. Was it winning that said that? Yeah, the awesome Alex. Yeah, the awesome Alex. You know, I remember her saying, I'm like, I don't know about that.

But now the way I saw Tony performed tonight, well, first of all, we, to see how bad Tony's knee is. Because Beno Darius is a very experienced grappler, and he said, that thing popped. That thing is done. So, and from my recall, I mean, if you pop it like that, like, you can still move on it. But once you put some serious weight on it or some lateral movement, it will slip and you will can be you part of his ACL

or MCL is torn there's no doubt so Tony Ferguson no matter what might be out for a guy I hate saying that but a year

I mean well I know how long he was out last time we had his we tore his name he was only out for like six days

or something so who knows yeah he's a freak like that but assuming he comes back from his injury in a regular

amount of time jeez man i don't know i i i should probably give up on my like idea that i would like to see him try 170 because again obviously if he's getting handled by lightweights what's a wrestler a wrestler 170 is just going to crush him right but i also think if you match him up the right way because you know what's funny we say he's in saroni territory seroni was fortunate enough to kind of have a surge like sort of have a second life after he hit a bit of a slump.

He went up to 170. They gave him good, like sensible welterweight matchups. I think Patrick Cote, I think was in there. I think that was a good one. Rick Story. So I think you could do the same with Ferguson.

I think if you give him welterweights outside, like outside the top 15 in like the 2030 range, he can at least have some entertaining fights. I don't think he'll be a contender at 170. I won't go that far. I don't think he'd have the same kind of success Saroni had. But it would at least freshly. some things up for him again, kind of avoid this weight cut, I'm sure, which isn't fun to do.

And just give him some fun fights. And speaking of fun fights, we have a suggestion, oh, where did it go? No, I want to read this. Oh, yeah, there you go. From Guido to Tonys, who says, why not Tony versus Nick Diaz at 170? Why not? I was thinking the same thing. Yeah, screw it.

That's a beautiful fight, sir. That is a beautiful fight. That is a beautiful fight. That's fine. That is a fine fight. I enjoy everything. I enjoy everything about that. But should we worry about will Ferguson contend for a UFC title at 170 or 155 over again?

I just think it's not. There's probably no point discussing it anymore. He's 37 years old. He's 37 years old, he turned 37 in February. He's obviously still in great shape, still a very talented guy, but a lot of mileage in fight years. And Dana White said it today. It catches up to everyone, and that's just life. Yeah, I think you just give him, you know, give him names like that.

If you do Nick Diaz, I'm fine with that. Give him somebody, like, in that range that isn't like a heavy grappler, like a fun stand-up fight with a guy that's not just going to, like, continuously take him down and try to smush him. Like, I know that's tough, but just fun fights where guys, they'll just stand there and fight each other. Tony Ferguson versus Carlos Condit. Sure. Yeah. There's a lot of fun fights.

I don't think Carlos wants to fight still. He's still a UFC fighter. You're still training every day. I don't think Carlos is going to be a title contender, you know, but yeah, those are just kind of fun fights that, you know, now we have the opportunity to make because we don't, Tony isn't in the run. He's not in the, he's not in contender fights. He's just, let's have just awesome fight night main events, whatever, co-mains for pay-per-views or, you know, just fun, fun openers of paper views. Yeah, but, yeah. but yeah but i think the tony

tony being contender is that ship is that ship sink m m m ms is supposed to be fun i still think if tony ferguson wants to still compete and he doesn't have to but if he wants to i tell him there's a lot of fun fights for tony ferguson left so i'm not i'm not giving up on that yeah we don't need to throw them in there with these young hungry whippersnappers anymore

gregger gillespie but oh he should fight gregger gillespie no if i hear Anyone, I'm sorry I even mentioned it, but I'm saying that's like exactly like the last thing we should be using Tony Ferguson's remaining fights for us fighting like up-and-coming contenders like B'Neil Darius. No, my, I was thinking Tony Ferguson versus Pizzis. No. I mean, no, no, we're not going to do. It was like, oh, no. No, no Armand Sarukian. No, no, that's.

Yeah, please, no. But as a promoter, that's how you, that's, but. Unfortunately for those gentlemen, they need victories like that. You know, so it's going to be... This is how every fighter's career ends, though. When they're at the top, it can't be at the top. And at some point, your feed for the prospects. So, yeah, we'll see.

All right, let's talk about this. Let's talk about this fun one. How about that? Broseau. Bergos K.O. I would love to watch the on-wee variety hour. That's so good. That is so good.

So for those who didn't see it on Twitter or hear it on the press conference show we were doing, I spoke to Shane Burgos probably a little over an hour ago at this point and just asked, like, how he was doing. He gave me permission to update everybody because I did reach out to him like just man-to-man and just asked about him. and then I was like, do you mind if I just throw this out there? And he goes, yep, go right ahead. He was at the ER awaiting a CAT scan, said he's all good. And then, quote, he said, I remember everything. It was just a weird feeling that shut my legs off slowly.

I'm 100% safe, healthy, coherent, and remember it all. So he's fine. I don't know the results of CAT scan or anything like that. That's up for him to give the results if he wants to do so. but in terms of like his memory and you know the ending of the fight like wasn't like a brain thing it's just his body just kind of shut down on him his legs kind of gave out and it's just a weird knockout i've never seen anything quite like that before now now with a punch of the face like i've seen it with like liver shots and stuff we get that delayed action but never like that

yeah we see body shot all the time this was freaky this was so freaky but but it's but the shot the one, two, that, like, ended it, he hit him, like, clean. Like, those look like knockout blows. It's, it's, I am shocked that, again, he didn't go down right away. They caught a really good angle of sort of, you know, over the shoulder, the over the burbosa shoulder. And you could see, I'm not a doctor, but I'm just saying, you know, we know this now because it did turn out to be a knockout.

I'm not Joe Rogan. I don't have, yeah, I don't have that, I don't have the magic powers of Joe Rogan where I can diagnose broken limbs and, and, uh, tears and, like, concussions, like, as soon as they happen. Heart rates, yeah. He's a gifted man, I would have to say. I wish I had that kind of skill. But if you look, if you, there's some replays, I'm sure they're all out there. You can kind of see, first of all, it's amazing. Like Burgos looks normal. Like body wise, it looks normal. He's kind of like shifting side to side. Looks like he's getting ready to throw a strike. But his eyes kind of don't move during that whole time. His eyes are kind of just like staring. I don't know if they're

staring at Barbosa. They're just kind of staring in a direction and they don't move. Even once he starts falling, his eyes don't change. And that's how you kind of, at least in that moment, you're kind of see like, oh, crap, there's nothing going on. Like, it's just a temporary shutdown. It's like, this is going to sound like such a pithy comparison, but it's, it almost looked like someone when they get up too fast. You get up to, you get up too fast.

And you're like, oh, and then you're like, oh, I'm normal. And then you just suddenly start falling. And for us, it's just embarrassing for poor Shane. It obviously was this accumulation of this damage and this fight and those two incredible knockout blows. But yeah, I don't. I just thought it was bizarre. We may not see it again for another 50 years, or it's MMA.

These things happen in trends. It may happen again next week. I have no idea. But yeah, it's a very, very, very legitimate, K.O. He fell right down his face after, I think Mike Beltran, referee Mike Beltran, could have been a little bit quicker going in, but I also don't blame him because he was also probably like, what the hell just happened. You guys are Barboses said too.

He's like, I don't know what's going on. Yeah, right? I'm just got to go in and finish. because the fight's not over. So, yeah, I'm not putting too much blame on Mike Tranforth. No, no, no. I don't even know if we'd even seen that before. So they don't teach that in ref school, I don't think.

But yeah, very memorable. Might be the most memorable knockout we see in the UFC this year. That was crazy. Yeah, it was, yeah, it was wild. And I'm very, I'm very happy that the UFC took, made the top priorities to send Burgos straight to the hospital, even though Burgos claimed that he was fine and everything. And I believe him too.

But this is these type of, these very competitive fights like this, especially a guy like Burgos who cuts a lot of weight to make 45, their brains are dehydrated still a little bit from the weight cut. And then in a competitive fight, their brains are bouncing around. These are the fights where you can have long term very tragic brain effects, you know, brain damage and stuff. So I really hope Shane's okay And this doesn't because that me That was a bad knockout And these things sometimes can really affect For the rest of your career

So I really hope it doesn't do that Because Burgos is clearly a very very, very, very, very talented Featherweight who unfortunately With a knockout like that will be out for a little bit But the 75K should make it just a bit sweeter Yeah, just had another kid So there you go. Yeah, gradually,

he's adds to Barbosa. Three and O is a featherweight. No more sleeping on that, man. No more sleeping on them. That was some performance. Yeah, where are we putting Barbosa? Oh, it's easy. This is easy.

Is the one that literally everyone's been calling for after, I've been getting tagged by a bunch of people who are calling for this matchup. But Mike, I'll let you say it. I assume. I mean, this is no secret because if you listen on to the next one two weeks ago, I already mentioned this and I'm going to stay with it. And even if Shane Burgos

won, it still would be the same fight. It's Barbosa versus Giga Chikaze. That is the fight to me. Oh, you didn't, okay. Yeah, I agree. I actually agree with that. The one I've been hit, but the one I was going to hit with a lot tonight was a year. But again, it's hard to match him with

the year just because we just don't know what his deal is when he plans to book a fight again. There's a lot of mysterious. The guy's camp is just very mysterious, which is fine. That's fine. I'm not saying they have to be telling us in the media everything. But it is weird. We never hear just like anything from there about what their plans are.

So, yeah, I think Giga is the option. Yeah, you are definitely in the conversation. Just where is Ye'eir? We have no idea. But yeah, great. It's just great to have Barbosa in that mix at 1.45. Oh, man. That's so fun.

But for Barbosa, is he going to be almost in the same position pretty strong? soon that he was in that featherweight, I mean, that he was at lightweight in the sense that he was always, Barbosa never fought for a title, but he was always that one fight away from fighting for the title, and then he'll lose that fight. Do we see Barbosa actually winning that fight to get to that featherweight? I might say he'll be the featherweight champion, but will he even, will he fight for the featherweight belt eventually? I don't know, man. I mean, it's the road, it's a long road, man. If it happens, if it happens within the next two years,

it'll be because like someone falls out and they need him. Because I mean, just look at the names here. You got Giga, you get Ege, you got Arnold Allen, Josh Emmett's coming back,

maybe the end of this year, early next year. You got Cater, you got Korean zombie, you got Yair, you got Ortega, you got Max freaking Holloway, and then you have the champion.

So, I mean, this isn't like a thing, this is like one of those tough divisions where you can't, like, it's pretty hard to just like shoot somebody up 10 spots and throw him into a fight

because there's a lot of other guys who have like compelling arguments. Like if he passes like if Arnold Allen isn't getting a fight like I would I would do I would do Barbosa versus Chikaze no issue with that Chikaze is a top 10 guy

totally fine. You got Ege versus Korean zombie Emmett's kind of the wild car because you don't know when he's coming I like the idea of doing Calvin Cater versus Arnold Allen. I think that makes a lot of sense for his comeback fight, which September, October is what Cater's looking at right now. Maybe sooner. If it was up to Cater, he'd fight freaking next week because he's an animal.

Yeah, and we don't even know what's happening with the title. Like, we don't know when that title fight's going to happen. Oh, God. So it's a long road, man. It's a long road. So let's just say it now then. Do you think Edson Barbosa will ever, compete for the UFC furtherway title i if i have to if i have to give a binary answer i'll say no i don't

think it happens i want to say no but freaking charles oliverr just won the title tonight no anything can happen that's that's what i mean it's like it's just like i don't know i don't know and like if you a year from now barboza versus brian ortega i don't know who knows well not a year from now but no freaking tough oh god wolkenovsky maybe vulcanopsi clears out the division right and it's like We need a veteran name to step in there with him. There you go. But I'll say no. I don't think he gets a touch.

His best chance will be to just ride the wave wherever the UFC wants to take him. Like no complaining. Don't say, you know, don't say like I'm fighting a top five guy next or I'm not fighting. Like you just take the fights and you fight and you perform like you did tonight. And if you do that continuously, look at Michael Chandler. The phone rings and you say yes every single time. good things happen, especially in a division this loaded and this pact.

So I'm not going to rule it out. I would say just based on the town in this division, I would say no, but would it surprise me? Hell no, wouldn't surprise me. But as we kind of said earlier, talking about like,

let's not always focus necessarily on title stuff. Like we're saying with Ferguson, like are there fun fights? Let's just, again, let's just enjoy that there are so many fun fights for Barbosa at 145, for however long he plans it.

And he can always go back up to 155. And there's more fun fights up there. So good for him. He seems to be happy at 145. Oh, my God. A rematch between Barbosa and Ferguson at 55, one of the best fights ever. Yeah. There ain't no wrestler.

Oh, man. You made my heart. You woke me up. I was just like, oh, my God. I kind of want to see him fight Felder again. I'd love to see a third Felder fight. If I'm being honest, I think that's unfinished business there. But I don't know.

I probably doesn't happen. But again, he just has so many options. I don't know Burgo's. He needs to get healthy again. Man, but the idea. Burgos now in a two-fight losing streak, that sucks. But I don't know, Burgos versus like Lando Vanada? Why not?

Two-fight, you're on a two-fight losing streak. Landau's now had a good win. Maybe not. Maybe not next. Why not? Maybe not next. Where's Burgos at now? You give him Vanana a top 15 guy right off the bat with one win?

Yeah. That's insane. Landos, Landau's a vet. Landau. Not in this division. All right. I think that's... This isn't flyweight.

This is not the Flyweight division. He barely won. He got 3027, according to one judge. Yeah. You're going to jump, Sadiq Yousaf, Hakeem Dawadu, Mavzar Evluev, Bryce Mitchell.

The fight, Sehing Burgas, string burgers and two fight loose. Now you fight a guy way in the back of the line now. you fight a tough guy in the back of the line. I like it saying. I got to think of that. He might be my wild card for Fonda the next one. So that's, that's, I, I, I really enjoyed Lando at Lando.

Yeah. Yeah. But my wild card. We'll see. So then I'll, I'll get back to him with this one, Casey. All right, all right, all right. Another win. How about, how about Vanada versus Cub Swanson?

I'm okay with that. He beats Cub, then he can fight Shane Bergos. I don't know if those guys would fight each other because they were training partners for a very long time Maybe I think so I'm sure But uh Well yeah

Take take it out of the equation Yeah Something something like that Why don't we want to do that to Cub Like we're like we don't want to throw We don't want to throw Tony Ferguson And with like a Who did I say

Physiz But we'll throw Cub Swanson in there With a Bonata He could beat I don't think I don't think I wouldn't look at that as like a walkover at all. I wouldn't look at that as a walkover fanato at all. Yeah.

You guys aren't, you guys aren't bonata believers. That's all I'm sensing. I'm a big bonata believer, but I'm kind of see what Mike is saying. Let's not rush it. I need more. He kind of got rushed after he,

like, you know, he had the crazy debut, right? And then suddenly we were, and I was part of it too. I remember when I was, the outlet I was working out before in my fighting. I was working at a score.

And he was like one of my five guys was like, will be a future UFC star. I don't even want to know who else I put in there They probably all missed Mackenzie Dern was in there So that was in a pretty easy call Mackenzie Dern was in there at the time But I know, yeah, Lando is certainly in that list as well

And there's still time, there's still time But probably got pushed a little too soon So if Mike is saying How about Vanada versus Jared Gordon is fine? Like he's a vet That's a good step, that's a tough fight I mean, Andre Feeley is interesting Casey's excited

Casey's wants to just want to see more Lando Yeah Yeah, but like you're, I love watching. So, so, so freaking Lorone Murphy? Like, he just jumps the Roan Murphy? It's not jumping. You're, you're probably a guy on a two-fight losing street. Like, this is the easy, this is the easy fight for Shane Burgos.

Easy fight. Easy come back. Oh, David said, a fight, easy tune up fight for Shane Burgess. Lauren Murphy's in the comments. Is he? Yeah, I can't. I don't, I, no, I don't, I, no, I don't, he's booked against someone. Yeah, it's a good fight.

I know, I know who it is. I know when it is, but I have, confirm the i haven't officially confirmed the other side so i can't tell you david sandine in the comments just reminded us that cub gave uh lando his nickname i think they actually mentioned that on the broadcast place yeah they were like they fire on yeah yeah so cubs cubs out

okay so cubs out i think they might still do it but no they want they want they want to do it they're freaking bruce lewry bruce lewrys listen to us right now like how dare you kacey liden bruce leroy it's like just winning fights and after how dare you bruce leroy how dare you is he going to be in the next ufcc champ after like 45 fights in the

gosh can you imagine can you imagine dude there's a lot of fun fights for for lando Gavin Tucker would be awesome like there's so many Billy Hughes funds Orlando outside someone

yeah you can't screw you can't you can't you can't screw up booking burgos you can't screw up booking Bonata so yeah Casey's Casey ready to throw Orlando Vanana and to

face the winner of Volkanovsky versus their take It's unbelievable. He bought Tony Ferguson on his first fight on 20 minutes notice. He can do it. Ontario, the wait is over. The gold standard of online casinos has arrived. Golden Nugget online casino is live. Bringing Vegas-style excitement and a world-class gaming experience right to your fingertips.

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30-27 for Grundy was the worst scorecard of the night. That just made zero sense. I'll say it was, I thought it was actually a really good fight. And I actually like, like, I tweeted like, man, this, this, can I swear on our post-fight show, Casey? Fuck, yeah. Paul's hand swearing. I was like

This shit is high level I was like this is a great This is a great Great fight like I had land I had land of clear I think clearly winning two of the three rounds But I mean Grundy was in there It's a grondy was catching him a lot I don't know if it was the I can't remember

How the commentary was calling the fight Grundy was actually he was landing a lot But I mean he definitely was losing the striking Landau's takedown defense was awesome His takedown defense was so Because Grundy is a really really good wrestler And Grundy is not like he had an off night. I think his wrestling was on point.

It's just that Benada, it was so prepared, and yeah, got out of some sticky situations. So it was really exciting, but I just, yeah, I just can't imagine Grundy winning more than one of the rounds. If you want to give him one, I could totally understand. It was 30, 27. It's just

wild. And I love, when D.C. is, like, really on, he's on. And I thought D.C. did a great job breaking down Grundy's strategy. And and not necessarily mixing his martial arts, you know, basically. I thought Den Thomas was great, too, has the kind of the fourth person in the booth, or whatever we want to call that.

I thought it didn't sound great. And I thought they just gave great breakdowns of this fight in particular, of just Grundy's limitations and what he would need to do and what Bonato was doing good. And I just liked it a lot, man. You know, make sure I want to give a thumbs up to those guys. They did a great job breaking down that fight. Yeah, I love Dean in that role. Great spot for him.

I love Trevor Whitman, maybe he's busy. Call Dean. Absolutely. Totally fine with it. Do a couple more. I thought Wright deserved performance of the night. Fast finish on the card. I'm torn on this one because I just, I don't know.

I think you have to weigh a lot of factors into like awarding these. I think Muni's submitting Jacquet is like there's just no beating that. You just can't beat it. I feel like Jordan Wright stopping Jamie Pickett no and this is no

disrespect. I'm not trying to be a jerk here. But in terms of like level of competition, this was the lowest level win on the entire fight card. Like,

you're still you're still getting like I I thought the days of shooting for a taked and getting elbowed 5,000 times in a row I thought these days were over like I thought we've gone beyond this apparently we haven't and yeah I mean listen Jordan Wright is a savage that was a savage performance and he came he he shot like a freight train and finished the fight and it was impressive but of like all the finishes on the card this is probably in my eyes just based on like all the criteria I think they probably use

this is probably like last on the list for me what do we think about Jordan Wright though he reminds me of Bo Burnham you know a Bo Burnham is the actor he's about to play you'll know who he is he'll make you definitely he's about to play Larry Bird

and the Lakers the Lakers biopic that's coming out people might have seen him he was in promising young woman was the Academy Award nominated film this year so he's he was a YouTube guy before I don't know that was my first time I saw in the movie he kind of reminds you of both talking more about Bob Byrne and Jordan Wright now yes I'm sorry yes what do you think of Jordan Wright Beverly Hills Ninja it's a fantastic name fantastic fantastic RIP Chris Farley is a great name he just he he he just looks like I saw people making sort of sage north cutty jokes um because he does seem like a clean cut young man a traditional martial artist. So I understand. I understand the appeal to that. But yeah, no, look, he's unassuming. If you were wondering, like, why are we kind of not getting around to talking about him until now? And almost sort of, I know it sounds so silly, like we're saying,

a 64 second TK on a UFC card doesn't, you know, was not deserving of a bonus in this, if you're picking four bonuses. But again, his, his time will come. If we're overlooking him, then, I mean, by all means, calls out for it. I think it's certainly possible we are. But I do think his, his, it's, Mike mentioned it, and Casey always mentions more talking about bonuses, that context matters, competition matters. Jamie Pickett again, just doesn't have that reputation in the UFC yet. He's now 0 and 2. He might be out of the UFC after this fight. So, yes, finishing someone like him as opposed to finish someone like Jack Ray is a big difference.

So, but yeah, I think Jordan Wright has a lot of potential to be, I'm not going to say a star, but certainly a reliable fan favorite for the UFC. Someone they can put on a guy who will become a record. The UFC can fund main cards. Yeah, I think he has potential. I absolutely think you can be a star in this, more like a star in that Chase Hooper type of star. Just, you know, I don't know if you get a chance, watch this post-fight interview backstage.

You just learn a lot more about Jordan Knight, Jordan Wright, Jordan Wright. Hey, Boston Zone. Yeah. I watched Jordan I met him years ago when he trained at Albuquerque and he

stuck out like a sore thumb because he wore he were these super colorful spats he doesn't carry himself like a fighter he's not like because he'll be in the same match like Diego Sanchez and Cowboys Soroni and Orlando and then there's Jordan

Wright you know Jordan Jordan Jordan yeah Jordan I got Jordan Knight in my head Jordan Wright and he's just like I'm like is that I remember talking to Greg Jackson is like, is he any good? He's like, he's some these crazy kicks. Does that really work?

He's like, oh, no, he's, he's a hard worker. He's going, he's going places. And I was like, okay. So, super nice, happy for him. And yeah, we'll see what's in the future for him. But with this win, I mean, yeah, he definitely has a few more, at least minimum three more times. We'll see him in the UFC.

Yeah, he needs, he needs, he needs just rattle off some wins. Like, it's, it's tough. Like, I kind of feel for him because of the contendorship. series thing and you know, people look at his record and they're like, oh, you fought a bunch of cans, which I think is kind of unfair. Just, you know, just you get these fights

and you fight them and that's who you fight. Like sometimes you have control over that and sometimes you don't. The win over Ikeville and Oweva was, I mean, it was a cut, so he didn't get a ton of credit for that. The Joachim Buckley knockout loss kind of stings a little bit. You know, but

listen, get him. him in there, build his confidence, give him wins, you know, give him some wins. Let his personality shine. He's, he's like, he's like a combination of Bo Burnham, Sage Northcutt with like a sprinkle of Jordan Levitt.

Like just a little bit of all those guys. Just a unique dude. He is him. A little touch of Levitt. Good dude. Very nice guy. Yeah. Oh.

Was the Chikagan Tap legit? Oh, come on. No. Love you, John. What was up of that? That was clearly, I get the, I get going, oh, just look at that real quick. Okay. But I felt like they rolled that replay like 10 times.

It was weird. Like, was it, did I just imagine that? I felt like they were really kind of really breaking it down like this secuder film. They were also talking about it before they went to the replay. I don't know if it was Corme who brought it up first. And then Rogan, who said that the truck had told him that they should check it out. So I put a lot of the blame on Rogan. But I still, and I don't take back because I do think the way him and Corby

both kind of. The way they framed it was so bizarre. Like, oh, this is a fishy thing. We have to check out. It's like, it's like, you know, you got to be more neutral, I think, when you're reducing these things because now, again, we have people ask this question. I slept people on social media. Again, a lot of reactions saying they thought they thought it's happened.

And again, that's not entirely on the commentaries team. I didn't see anything live and I didn't even notice until they started talking about it in the show the replay. Hell no, that wasn't a tap. No, this isn't, who's the guy? Who was the guy who just fought Verdum? Verdum's opponent. Cesar. No, not Muchant.

No. Hanan Faheda, I think. Hanan Faheda, I think. But I apologize, I get that wrong. No, no, there's no controversy here. And credit to the Commodore team, yes, they've replayed it. but once they were doing the replay, they never brought it up again. Okay.

I think, I think Dent Thomas came in and basically shut it down real quick. It's like, no, she looks like she's reaching for her hand. Okay, moving on. Yeah. So. Yeah. And even the producer, Zach Indito, who Anik references a lot on the broadcasts,

he was on Twitter and he even put out like a quick little thing saying, like, listen, wasn't a tap, but still I figured, like, with the context of the broadcast, it was important to bring up the replay and show you guys. Like, he was an open book about it. and that was it. I don't mind the replay, but I think Ake was correct. It was the framing that Rogan did. That kind of.

Yeah, Roe and DC. And DC, D.C. Probably more. I should have gone, I should have gone harder on DC. Yeah, I think it's a little more DC that was kind of pushing it. Look, they just want some of that PFL heat. Yeah, yeah, you get that PFL. Yeah, everyone was talking about that for Doom for head a fake tap thing.

All right. I get it. I get it. You want to get on some of that heat? Man, fake tap. The kids love the fake taps. The kids love them. Hey, hey, do you see neat.

they need that promotional push somehow. They got to get this. This is true. You got to get a buzz going. Yeah. Hey, listen. Listen, if you're our Uzo's management team, maybe you file a little appeal with the crazy Texas commission.

Maybe they're just crazy enough to overturn it. We didn't have a lot of controversy here, but maybe we get some post white sting here, you know? I would do that. Let's keep it on Chikagan real quick. All right, we'll do this and maybe one more. Is Chukagan screwed as long? as Valentina Shofchenko's show,

I know she has won three of her last four fights. Just hard to match her up. I think Lauren Murphy, if she beats Jojo, has to be next. I think if Jojo wins, she has to be next. Listen, Kailen Chukagi won the fight, but the biggest winners of all were Lauren Murphy and Joanne Caldoid

because Viviani Arousou was the wild card in this whole thing. If she went out there, if she, like, I scored it 29, 28 Arrujo, had she gotten the decision, it wouldn't have been enough anyways. But if Aroujo like went out and just like put it on her and like 30-20-sixter or stopped katelyn chakin she could have jumped

both of those ladies like it was very possible but now it's a clear path june 12th we will have another number one contender it's either Lauren murphy or joanne caldored whoever wins that fight we'll fight valentina next i think we can all agree with that right yeah um last thing about chicagin we can answer this quick yes or no can chakagan do anything inside the octagon that will get her rematch with Valentina. Yeah, she'd have to get a finish, but it's just not... She just a finish. Is that all she needs to get a finish?

She has no finishes in the UFC, right? I'm not mistaken in this, right? She has never... It's pretty wild, yeah, the amount of decisions. She has three finishes in her career, 20 fights, 16 victories, 13 by decision. And by the way, guys, look, we're not saying decisions are the worst thing in the world. You can win a lot of exciting decisions, right? You know, sometimes you just don't get finishes.

but she definitely has a style which is as we said it's kind of easy to critique it's easy for fans to kind of scoff at and not not really get into um so yeah i think the question was that joseph bozo that asked i think um i think it has a lot of merit and you're kind of you're asking yeah i think the question has a lot of merit i i should have to do something if she could win because if she wins this i thought like i said was one of her more exciting fights and i still saw people crapping on it yeah so if she wins like three more fights like this i I still don't think she gets a title shot. It was Valentina on top. They just don't want to see. There's just no reason to want to see that fight again. And again, that sucks, you know, in a perfect world. It would be like, I don't know, mandatory challenges like boxing. I almost feel like she's almost like a poor woman's Holly home trying to fight in Mayna Nunes again.

You know, it's just like, we're like, oh, we saw it one time already, you know. Without having the Ronda Rousey. Yeah, that you could just ride that for like literally the rest of your life. Yeah, she doesn't even have that moment. So, yeah. All right. Yeah, but guess what? But guess what?

If Holly Holm goes out there in her next fight and, like, starches somebody, she would get a title shot. Like, she wouldn't. She would get a title shot. I mean, they're in two completely different places. Yeah. Which is just bizarre to think about. But, yeah, Chukagian, it's tough, man. And even she knows it.

She called it Alexa Grasso. She called it Alexa Grasso. She's not sitting there screaming at the rooftop saying, I'm next. Give me the damn title shot. She's like, I'm going to go back. I'm just going to start knocking off these contenders. And you know what? I dig it.

I dig it. I think she's very smart. That would be horrible matchmaking for the USC. I'm fine with it. It's a good fight. It's a good fight. But in terms of building up contenders for Valentina, which they are in constant, desperate need to,

Chukagian, the matchmakers must freaking hate Chichagian because all she does is not going to contenders. And they need to build up contenders for, to sell Valentina fights. Yeah. Grass was an interesting test for her, though. Grass was an interesting test for her. Because she's a really good striker. Really good striker. And now she got some wrestling her back pocket now, too.

But you know who else was an interesting test for Ria Rourgeo? So didn't quite, did not work out for Arroger's. Like you said, it was a pretty close fight. No, but I absolutely respect you. Kagan, like I said, just calling other names out. Because, listen, if you cannot be the bell of the ball, you can only spoil the party for everyone else. And I have so much respect for it.

Is that your motto? Is that your motto, okay? I have ruined many parties in my day. So I have, Caitlin Chiquang is definitely a kinsurred spirit. Prince of positivity, the bell of my ball. All right, last question. What do we got?

I say we're going 30 minutes. We're over an hour now. Sorry. Got to do it. We're going to end it on a downer because the answer is absolutely. the answer is absolutely yes no matter how that fight ended

if Munez just won the fight that was probably the last time we see Chakurei like that's four last in a row do you think he fights again in the UFC oh this says in the UFC I thought it just said the last time we see him fight I do think they give him another fight I do think they give another fight I think they won

I think we have ourselves I think he ends up on an ESPN main card we at least have ourselves a nice story of a proper farewell where he's hopefully not matched up with someone who can snap one of his limbs. Yeah, no. If I were, if I were if I were if I were if I were betting of course I'd say he's we said this before before the before the preview shows he's a big ticket item. He's a over $200,000 last time we checked a show money. It's a lot of money. So yeah, he could obviously go to Alistair overring route, the ancient silver route, just kind of part ways with the company. But if he's willing to either take less first next fight or if they don't mind

taking that one more, one more big hit from Jacadee, I think they give him one more shot to go out on a, on a less grisly note. I think he gets one more shot, and it'll be against, it'll be like the veteran versus prospect. I'd like, yes. Like, Zachary versus Jordan, Jordan Wright,

something like that. I'm not saying Jordan Wright particular. Oh, there it is. There you go. That's something, yeah. Throw them in there. Just an easy, easy tune-up victory for Jacaray Souza. See, we ended on a positive note.

See, there you go. I'm not even going to answer this question then. How about that? We already did. Casey and I are trying to go. There's just no way. There's just no way that he'd be. Michael, we can chuck away a good fight to leave to leave the U.S.

He's lost four in a row. Yes. Donald's only lost 29 billion fights in row. We're still going to get one more fight. Tony Ferguson's going to get another fight. Donald could fight. next week. Jacare cannot fight next week.

He'll stare at his arm. He's like, oh, I'll just use this arm more. He's good. I mean, listen, let me agree with that. Jacari would fight next week, but he physically cannot fight next week. Yes, that he would not be a lot to you. I would hope so. That's a losing attitude.

I'd like to see him fight again. If they brought him back, I would love it. I love Jacqueray. He's fun. He's great. He's a legend. I just don't see it happening. Jack Ray versus...

2022. He'll be back. One more. Yeah. That's it. No, no, one more fight. No, no, no more questions. No more questions.

No more questions. I didn't put it up on the screen. Any Jake Paul questions. We got them. I didn't put him up. And yet you had to mention his name. We're not been on air right now. No one's hearing this.

It's just like... Okay, you're right. I tell you. I'm taking the Dana White approach, that whole situation of this. point. Like, stop asking me about it. Did he answer the question, though? It was about GSP. He didn't answer the question.

No, because he's smart. He knew what he was doing. He didn't turn on the media. So is it true? He was... Is it true? He gave his version of no comments, which was, of course, not... He doesn't just say no comments. He said a lot of other stuff, too, but it... Yeah.

Yeah, I don't know. Who knows? Listen, we're getting out of here. We're done. Me and AK are going to be recording on to the next one in like six and a half hours. And I'm ready. I'm already ready. I have my ideas already.

So until the... All right. We're ending on our positive note for Casey, KK, I'm Mycac. Hope you guys all enjoyed the show. Good night, everybody. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.