MMA Fighting - UFC 265 Post-Fight Show | Ciryl Gane Has Officially Arrived

Episode Date: August 8, 2021

With UFC 265 in the books, MMA Fighting’s Mike Heck, Shaun Al-Shatti, Alexander K. Lee and E. Casey Leydon break down the top storylines coming out of Saturday’s event in Houston, including Ciryl Gane’s dominant third-round TKO win over Derrick Lewis in the main event to capture the interim heavyweight title. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Alexander K. Lee: @AlexanderKLee Follow Shaun Al-Shatti: @shaunalshatti Follow E. Casey Leydon: @ekc Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Yeah. That's right. Greetings. Greetings to all of you. If you're on the East Coast right now, you're probably not watching this so you wake up. But for those watching live,

I truly appreciate this, as do the rest of us as we are here for the UFC 265 live post-fight show here on MAAfighting.com. I am Mike Heck, not in Command Center 2.0. I am at a hotel in East Windsor, Connecticut tonight. uh recapping ufc 265 with all of you being joined by sean al shoddy in phoenix arizona how you doing my man i'm doing good man it's a little bit less late here as it is for you so i'm probably doing a little bit better than you are yeah the sun's still over here i don't want to hear it uh

a k lee what's up man how's canada right now look at that fresh thing my friend thank you it's great uh mike your voice seems little what's going on your voice seems a little off i don't understand I feel like you've been nothing but doing but sitting around all day. Why? Why? I don't understand how it was your voice so a little raspy. Yes. I've ring announced.

I did Twitter spaces. I've been talking for eight, nine hours straight. But we battle through. Speaking of battling through, E. Casey Lydon joins us from Houston, Texas. How are you, my friend? Houston! That's all I got. There you go.

That's all you got. All right. That's all we need. That's all we want. I'm in the central time zone. So it's not quite as late as you guys, but it's still a stupid late. Yeah. Yeah.

And you're on fight week time. So it's, I mean, you're still good to go for another two or three hours. But gentlemen, Casey, you and I have talked about this already, A.K., we haven't heard from you yet. But I'm going to start with Sean Al-Shoddy because on our MA fighting Twitter spaces, we watch the co-main event together, watch Jose Aldo do the damn thing. But the main event, Cyril Gahn, delivers one of the most dominant performances you will ever see in a title. Like this was one way traffic. Me and Casey went through the striking discrepancies on the press conference stream. It was like 112 to 16 were the total numbers.

Just ridiculous from Cyril gone. You're just overall thoughts. You don't see that standing too. Sorry, you don't. I just realized you don't you see those like on ground strikes, but standing strikes, you just, that's just unheard of, you know, it's just, I was just, I'm, I'm tired. Yeah. And listen, you can add like half of those strikes.

took place in like the final 30 seconds during that final floor where Lewis was pretty much battling for his life with his back against the wall. But just your overall thoughts on what we saw from Cyril Gaon tonight did, because I think he surprised a lot of people. Like I think we all expected this fight to go a certain way. And Cyril Gan just kind of flipped the script on everybody. Did he not? Yeah, he certainly did.

I mean, all of us on the preview show were believers in Derek Lewis. And I think the main thing for all of us was really that it just felt like it wasn't, it wasn't quite the time right or quite the right time yet for cyril gone right like he hadn't gone through the battles he hadn't been really tested and pushed in a way that we like to see these guys be pushed and tested before we think they can reach this sort of mountain top but you're right man i mean you mentioned the punch stats i think the bigger stat to me even than that 100 and something to 16 or whatever it ended up being was the accuracy man because he landed his his strikes at a staggering 80% clip in terms of significant strikes. Of all of that, of everything, that to me is

the most impression of all of this. Like all 32 of his leg strikes found the mark. Just everything Cyril Gahn was doing in there tonight was working to a T. It was as close to a flawless victory, a perfect performance as you really find from a fight that lasts as long as this did. Because this one almost went a full three rounds. Like this was about 14 minutes. And at no point, at any point in it was Cyril Gahn in trouble? Was he hurt? Was he? even touched really. He came away from this looking like a man who just had some dinner. He didn't look like he

just got in a fight with the Black Beast, Derek Lewis, the knockout king, the all-time heavyweight leader and knockouts and all of this. It was just absolutely a master class of footwork, accuracy, distance management, intelligence. And I think the thing that stands out most of all really is just you don't

see heavyweights move in the way that Cyril Gahn moves, right? Like the fluidity with which he approaches this game and how he just confuses people with his footwork and really just sort of traps people in that space. Derek Lewis never got started. He really didn't. From Jump Street, Derek Lewis kind of looked like he was lost in the sauce there.

And that old tried and true method of just, you know, biding your time and waiting for that right moment to strike. That works up until it doesn't. And Derek Lewis built a legitimately great UFC career off that, but watching tonight, it felt like he never stood a chance once that thing got going. AK, you are the Prince of Positivity. And it's hard in the space. to find a fighter that just oozes positivity.

And Cyril Gan is exactly that. And I loved what he had to say at the press conference. This is a sport, all right? He basically treats heavyweight championship fights or interim heavyweight championship fights in this case. Like a recreation basketball game. Like, it's just like a smile on his face. It's just him going on and playing around a golf.

Like, he's just so calm and relaxed out there. Like, how big is that for a guy like Cyril Gan who's just 10 fights in, to his professional career on knocking on the doorstep of fighting for an undisputed title in his 11th pro fight like how cool is that just seeing a guy so positive

and just seeing him so loose but yet so young in his career to this point. Bongaming, good boy. You know, he epitomizes that. He says he wants to live his life like an adult who's with a,

but with the spirit of a child. And that might not seem like an attitude that's conducive to cage fighting but my goodness, the man makes it work. Mike, we had a saying, you know, back in my old slow-pitched softball days, I used to say, that's not even that funny. You know, guys, that's a 345 in the morning Eastern Time laugh that I just got there

at these guys. But the saying was, practice is the real game. Practices the real game. So you're asking, what is the, have you guys never played rec league? I just love you comparing your athletic experiences and slow pitch softball to what Cyril Gahn did tonight. It's one. It's one for one. It's one for one.

You guys are really the same person, really. It's like Alps in orange. Like Dana White might say. I'm not going to elaborate on it. But no, we had to say practice is the real game, right? And honestly, I think that applies at all levels. I think if you really love what you're doing and you're really effing good at it like Sadie Lagan is, all the hard work is done is done in the gym, all the hard work is done in

the training, the practice, everything. So when fight night comes around, I really believe it when, as Mike put it, it's just like this game to him. It's just like he's having fun in there. Everything's, everything's,

you know, going off on all cylinders, as it was tonight. His confidence probably only growing with every round. Like, I'm sure he was very respectful of Derek Lewis and his reputation, of course,

for knockouts out of nowhere. But otherwise, he was in complete control. And I bet the fight itself was, was, you know, easier. than he expected it to be.

And I say this as a credit to Gahn. Nothing to not to insults Derek Lewis. I saw a lot of course negativity after I understand people were disappointed. They didn't get to see, you know, Derek Lewis really land anything substantial. So it becomes, you know, the whole, oh, how did he get here? And, oh, he's disappointing performance. He can't win the big one, all that stuff.

But the emphasis really should be on how good Cedar Al-Gahn is. And give credit to Zena White at the Post-West Press Conference for essentially saying the same thing. He was asked, like, do you think Derek Lewis has been off tonight? And he's like, look, this had more to do with Sadie Lagan and the level he's at than any shortcomings of Derek Lewis. So great promotion by Daniel Wode for once.

Let's give him credit. He did a really, really good job of massaging the situation, promoting Gondon, promoting Derek Lewis. They probably will be back at the Toyota Center sooner rather than later, given the multi-fight deal. And Derek Luce would be there, so no reason to downgrade the man after what was already a tough night. But Cil Gond, just amazing, amazing, amazing performance.

Really can't say enough about it. Let me just add really quickly to. Oh, go ahead. I just, what impresses me the most about all of this as we sort of sit back and reflect and look on sort of the road that this guy's taken is the timeline of all of it, right? Because when Cyril Gahn made his MMA debut, do you know when that was? Like, that was literally Daniel Cormier had just knocked out Steep Mioch to win the heavyweight title. Like, that was like three weeks after that.

That's how recent all of this was. He hadn't even made his MMA debut at the time DC was doing that. Like, that is crazy to me, man. This road that he has been on, how fast we have watched this guy really mature from just this, you know, like mountain of just raw potential that he was when he came into the UFC to now one of the best heavyweights in the world who's just doing this so calmly and coolly in front of our eyes. And really, like, these last three fights, right?

Because it really has culminated over these last. three fights over the last seven months. Rosenstruck, Volkov and Lewis, like all three of those dudes are so obscenely dangerous, just in every regard. And they looked like they didn't even belong in the same sport as Cyril Gahn when they were in there with him. Like, it is just crazy what this guy has done in three years. And I think we also have to give credit to his coach, Ferdinand Lopez, who has now done

this twice with two different men from the streets of Paris. Like, of all the places you find these incredible heavyways, we're probably going to go down by the end of their careers as some of the greatest heavyweights we've seen. To find these two dudes in the streets of Paris and in a matter of a couple years, lead both of them to UFC title shots. And now, you know, one of them already has gold and one of them kind of has gold, but not really, but it's about to fight for it. Like, that's crazy, man. That is absolutely crazy. It doesn't make sense.

It doesn't make sense. It's a movie. It's a Hollywood script. The way that this is, I know we'll get into it, but the way that this is sort of coalesced and culminated into this fight now, where you have these narratives of sort of these narratives of the, these two ex-teammates, ex-training partners, guys who really, again, came from the streets of Paris where no heavyweight MMA, like no heavyweight M.A fighters are coming from. Yeah, and then Derek, or then I'm sorry, Francis leaves and it's kind of on messy terms. And then sort of the understudy is now getting this chance to exact vengeance for the gym and for Lopez and this

whole team. Like, you can't write this stuff, man. It's incredible. We'll get to the aftermath in a moment. I'm still not over AK softball and algae. I mean, he's definitely an interim batting champion in the Toronto B League, developmental league. But I like A.K. said, like for slow pitch softball practice. Well, you see, when you're an elite, when you're an elite athlete like Alexander K. Lee,

things are done a certain way. And you expect to be done a certain way. Thank you. Sean, you understand. Thank you. Yeah, AK woke up every day and took 500 T swings. And he was ready to go. You use different size bats too.

You use different size bats, different weights, and then it builds up speed. Absolutely. Casey, where does Derek Lewis go from here? I mean, tough. I mean, this was not a good night for him. I mean, again, all testimony goes to Cyril Gahn and what he was able to do tonight. And maybe Derek Lewis did feel the pressure of fighting in Houston. But I don't think that made any difference in the result of this fight.

You could have had this fight anywhere. And I think it would have gone the same way. But where does he go now? after a loss like this, second shot at UFC Gold, whether interim or not, it just was not his night in any way, shape, or form tonight. What do you do now? You know, I actually, I mean, I picked Derek Lewis to win,

and I think all of us were shocked, not shocked that gone won the fight, but, like, just he won it dominantly and kind of exciting, too. And I feel, I just, I actually feel bad with, Derek Lewis. I mean, I know he got a decent paycheck, but like, that was just, he lost, he didn't even get to show up tonight. And it wasn't like, it wasn't, if he would got a knockdown on 30 seconds, that would be like, oh, he got caught for lucky punch. But losing like this, yeah, it just like, it made you feel like Derek Lewis, I guess that's, that's, that's, that's,

that's why's he really gone so good? It made you feel like Derek Lewis, like, why was he even there tonight? Like, he clearly sucks. So where he goes from that from here? he goes to main eventing fight night cards um i don't know it's it's it's this taste is going to get it's going to be it's going to it's going to it's going to be with us for a while with derrick lewis and um i think that when he got dominated and no absolutely you know mauled by um dc you know it's like well dc's a grappler you know and you know we knew derrick lewis had his faults and everything but this was just wild i mean i mean i mean Yeah, I don't know.

Derek Lewis, yeah, he just has to, I killed up his leg and just sit out for maybe a few months. And I don't know. Yeah. Book him against Tanner Bozer. I don't know. Just, just, I mean, I hope he comes back. I mean, Derek Lewis has already just, I'm sure, like, when he got into the sport and where he is now, he's kind of playing a house money. He's, he has to completely exceed any expectations that he had from the first day.

started no fight mixed martial arts so um i don't know i feel bad but i i i think i i wanted that derg lewis story i wanted it i just we kind of i think as journalists we love that kind of story but shrogan filled that gap and now we have an amazing story right there and um yeah we're just sport the sport moves on yeah and derrick lewis is so nonchalant it's almost like he doesn't care about winsor losses and you know and a lot of times he had some injuries He had a sore back, like a really bad back for a long time. Took the DC fight on super short notice. It was a chance to headline in MSG.

But I feel like this loss, this performance. It stings, yeah. Yeah, it's different. This is a soul-searching type of loss. Because he tried. I feel like, you know, before he was just like, oh, no, swing and bang, swing and bang, this stuff's easy, whatever, you know. But like, you could feel like, no, this is, he knew if he wins tonight, you know,

the DC fight, yeah, you know, he's injured. period of short notice, but he wins tonight. It really changes his life. At this point, he was like this icon for the city. You know, when you fought Derek, when you fought DC, he was kind of an oddity. But now, you know, he was Derek Lewis now. And just to be so close to legend status in Houston and just the sport in general, that's got to be tough for anyone. It's just, that's just a tough loss. It's a really tough loss. I think what's crazy about what's different was going to this one is for once Derek Lewis bought into the kind of narratives that us in the media are constantly shoveling out there.

I think for most of his career, he's pretty immune to that stuff. Like, you know, we've all written all kinds of stories about Derek Lewis or tweeted about it or just or talked about Derek Lewis in these shows saying like, oh, this is what this fight means for Derek Lewis. This is what this fight means for his career. I don't think he's ever, ever, ever, ever given a crap about that or at least not openly said it. And this week he actually did say in multiple cases like, yeah, I understand. This is a big deal.

This is a big deal in Houston. This is my chance to win the big one because he didn't last time against Cormier. And you just don't hear Derek Lewis talking about that stuff normally. He's just joking around most of the time. And, you know, just being a fighter's fighter, as it were, this is really the first time I've ever seen him care about kind of what we think, kind of what the public thinks of his fight. And being hometown, of course, it was a huge factor. So it mattered. It had nothing to do with the performance.

I think the best version of Celigahn beats the best version of Derek Lewis any day. But to say he wasn't affected by this supposed storyline that we're talking about, I think would be inaccurate. I think it had to matter a bit. Sean, let me ask you this, because we all went to this fight thinking it would go a certain way. Like if Cyril Gan won, he would win in a way that a lot of us expected to. He just kind of picked Lewis apart. outpoint him, maybe win a decision.

No one really saw him doing what he did tonight, as we all sort of alluded to. But I got to tell you, man, just like a month ago, six weeks ago, hell, even a week ago, the thought of Cyril Gaon fighting Francis and Gano was cool only in storyline for me. But after that performance tonight,

I am all in on Francis and Gano versus Cyril Gond. I am so intrigued by this fight. I can't wait for it. What are your thoughts on that? Like, are you feeling that? the same way I am right now? Yeah, I agree with you in that regard, right? Because you're not wrong.

Like, the last few fights for Cyril Gaon have been very, what's the right word, methodical, right? Like, they've been very, they've played out in a certain way that probably isn't the most aesthetically pleasing, especially when we come to heavyweight fights and we expect swing and and bang and in knockouts and big things like that. When Francis Inganu is the king of the division and Derek Lewis is doing all this craziness, like that's what we expect from our heavyweights. And Cyril Gaon is not that guy. I mean, he can be, and we've seen him be that guy in past fights and even a little bit in this third round tonight.

But it was a very more, it was much more of a patient and intelligence approach that he was taking. And that's frankly just not what MMA fans want. That's not what anybody who's watching the sport wants from their heavyweight action. So I can see where you're coming from on that. And I agree with you in that regard. Although I do wonder, too, like it almost seems like it's kind of gone overboard in the other direction now. because I even threw out on Twitter tonight, and obviously fight night stuff is very reactionary.

But I threw out on Twitter like, hey, early predictions for this fight. And I would say like 80% of the reactions were, oh, Cyril Ghan's going to win against Francis Inganu very easily. And that to me feels crazy. Like that to me feels like we've already forgotten how obscene Francis and Gano is in there. Like the dude is unlike any human being I have ever seen in my entire career, maybe my entire life.

Like a lot of people already seem to be counting out Francis and Gano now, which is a very crazy place to have come to and one I didn't expect us to reach maybe ever, but at least not this soon, like a couple months after this dude just start Steppe Mioch in no time at all. So it is an interesting dynamic and going back to the storylines that I mentioned earlier

where it's just all these different things that play for this fight with the former teammates and coming from the streets of Paris. Like if they could run this fight in Paris, that would be such an insane scene. That would be such a cool way to have the first UFC event ever ever in Paris. I highly doubt that ever happens with what's going on in the world and sort of where

MMA is at. I know if MMA now is more accepted in Paris than it was, or in France in particular than it was a couple years ago, but I highly doubt that happens. But if it does, that would just be the coolest side ever. Like I would be so happy for both men to be able to get that opportunity like that. AK, because of how the world is, if you're the UFC, do you just put the rockets to these guys and just try to get this fight booked ASAP? Like, I know, Dana said ASAP, but are you trying to get this one in before the year is over? Just to sort of throw gasoline on the fire that already is Cyril gone.

Because like, no, I don't know if anyone, just listening to Sean and the poll results. I mean, I'm shocked. 80, 20 for Cyril gone is insane. That is an insane number. So just if you're the UFC, just based on the reaction that Cyril is getting right now, are you just doing everything you can to get this fight booked as soon as possible, get it in before the calendar flips to 2022. If in this scenario, I'm magically Dana White or the UFC, what I'm doing is opening up the checkbook for John Jones

and making that fight happen. But I guess you're saying within reason, within reason, yes, if we're assuming the Jones-in-Ganoo fight is not part of this scenario. Yeah, of course, of course. Before the end of the year is ideal. Strike while the iron is hot and all that. Again, I don't think a gone-in-gun-fight ever reaches

the magnitude of Jones and Ganoo. So I'm not sure how much of an impetus there is to put it together. But getting Gano back in there. Cut this crap that they were doing tonight with, oh, well, he's on vacation. So that's why, you know, if he wants to take his time off and have vacation, relax, it's okay. We're kind of moving on with that. Dude, they threw him under the bus in the first 15 seconds of the paper view.

It was ridiculous, man. What the hell's going on? The dude just, like, won his title a couple of months ago against the heavyweight goat. Like, this is Sean. This is crazy. We don't even need to get into it, but it's absurd. Fortunately, I have a lot of faith in M.A.

fans that they're smarter than that, that they don't, they didn't buy into that stupid clip and that they know that Nganu and then Ngunu is still the guy to beat. Even though, again, like apparently 80% think Gondon will beat him. If Ngano is the guy to beat, as it were. But, but yeah, no, I think that this is a reason to be biased at its highest. I think as the fight, if the fight gets booked and it gets closer, it'll be a little bit more reasonable. But it would not surprise me.

It would not surprise me to see Gahn favored. I do think he has the right kind of style to be the undisputed champion in heavyweight. I personally would pick and Ghanu, but again, I'd have to wait until the fight got closer to really break it down. But I don't blame people for picking Gond. I tweeted that, look, he could become the stand-up heavyweight version of George St. Pierre. And I'm not just saying that both guys have, you know, origins in French Canada, but

there's a method, he's so methodical. There's a style that's not always going to be appealing to fans, but also a dominance there that I think people will have no choice but to respect. So I feel like if he does, if he can get over that in Gunnu hurdle, I really don't know who is going to beat this guy

over the next like three years. And so, so I understand the hype. Look, I'm buying it. That is a massive if, man. That is a massive if, man. That is a massive. Massive math. I'm thinking Gano.

What is going on right now with this, for instance, and Gano? I just can't understand how many people are discounting. Crazy. Lately. If he wants to fight, he just has to call Dana. If he wants to fight, you just call Dana. Geez. Of course.

It's that simple. It's that simple. It's that simple. It's apples and oranges. Apples and oranges. Right, Casey? Apples and oranges. Okay.

When Dana said that to me, I got to me, I was kind of almost a little confused. I was like, okay. I don't know what to take him. Oh, man. But we'll see what happens there. I mean, great performance from Ghana, star-making performance. The man has arrived. That is an arrival from Bongamine.

Is that how you say it, AK? I say, Bon Gamme. Bon-Game. I don't know what Bruce Buffer was saying. Bruce Buffer was like, he said it twice, and it was just like, I don't say he was wrong. It was so loud, maybe I just couldn't hear him. But it just sounded like, bra-g-g-r-rah.

And I was like, oh, all right, close enough. they're in the arena. No one can tell what he's saying anyway. Right. Before we move on, I know it's late. Surreal gone walking out to Mike Jones. Oh,

that was so good, man. That was such a troll job. That was the only time that that song has ever been booed in Houston. That, I was like, oh,

you can't. It was, it was so conflicting. That was just like, that's, I don't know. It's fantastic. That was really well done.

Okay. I'll admit, I'll admit at the press conference, because he doesn't come out of nowhere at the press conference. Gone wore a DJ screw shirt. And no, and I was about to ask him. I was like, yo, what's up with that shirt, bro? But like, I was just like, I forget. I want to go home.

And then the freaking French reporter at the postpressor asked about it. And I was like, no, man, I'm from Houston. I could ask about the Texas songs. But, man, what a troll. But apparently he's a fan. He was like, he even named drop Big Mo. And Big Moe is kind of a deep. So I was like, all right, maybe, maybe, I don't know.

Hey, Sherogne's my new favorite fighter. What are you going to do? A plus night for Cyril Gan, no doubt about it. But, Sean, I'm just going to make this very simple. Jose Aldo, go. Oh, my God. Dude, that man is on year 17. Like, how crazy is it?

Year 17. Think about what we just saw on Saturday night and then, like, consider that number. Like, really actually consider that number. Like that's that's not even like a short 17 either, right? Like that's a long 17 against almost all of it competed against like the top top, top echelon of fighters in the world, two different, split across two different divisions, both of which premium is placed on speed and like fatch twitch reactions and just all that sort of thing. Like those are the most important traits in those divisions. And Jose Al though is still doing it.

17 years in, he's manhandling contenders like it's going out of style. And to me it's just incredible, man. because like that was an absolutely brilliant performance. I know that maybe he didn't get a finish and whatever, but like the fact that Jose Aldo at this point in his career is still coming out here and sweeping the judges score cards against the guy like Pedro Munoz, who was a tough out for anybody and set new personal best too with the 114 significant strike study lands,

which is apparently more than any of the other 26 UFC or WEC appearances that he has, of which 15 of them are five-round fights. Like the fact that Jose Aldoz never hit somebody as much. much as he hit Pedro Munoz tonight. Like, that's crazy to me. And this is a guy who have we written off. I just, I say the royal we in the MMA community, so many different times in his career. I saw so much Jose Alito slander on the timeline this week for fight week of people just talking about him like he's washed up and like he's not still a relevant figure. And yet every time we go down this road, this man figured out how to evolve, how to reinvent himself, how to

stay relevant and stay right where he is at among the best fighters in the world. It is effing incredible to me. Because, I mean, we even going back a couple of years when he announced this whole thing about Bantam Weight, I'm going to go down to Bantamweight, that seemed like the most crazy decision and the most wrongheaded, just bullheaded, reactionary decision that you had ever seen, right? Because this is a guy who struggled going through the depths of hell to make $145 every fight week. And if we ever changed a vision, it was going to be to go up to lightweight, not to go

down to 135 fucking pounds. And yet he did it. And he still looks tremendous down here. The speed, the accuracy. see the defense, the kicks, I mean, the halacious bodywork he was putting on Pedro Munoz, it's all still there, man, and it's all still working. We saw it against Marlon Vera. We saw it in the early stages against Peter Yan, too, before that fight sort of turned. Like, Jose Aldo is a remarkable human being. He is a living legend. And tonight, it was just one more on the resume.

And I can't say enough about it. I am so damn impressed with this man. Give me Corey Sanhagen or give me Rob Font next. Let's just have some fun with this. Because what can you say, dude, Jose Aldo, man. He's the king. It's the king of Rio for a reason. AK, you know what was so fun about that fight? What was so fun about that fight? Everything.

Everything. Jose Aldo was dominating the feeling out process. Like, just the feeling out process. Like, he's just trying to, like, answer questions in his own mind about, like, different things that Pedro Muonius is going to bring him. He's winning that and dominating it. And then at the end of the first round, probably with, like, 30 seconds left in the first round, You immediately saw that switch flip.

His confidence rose. He had Pedro Munoz figured out at the end of the first round, and it just got better and better and better. What stood out to you most from Josealdo's win tonight? I mean, it's just moments where it just looked like he hadn't lost a step, you know? I mean, I think there was some growing pains down at 135. Some would argue that there wasn't. I mean, a lot of people thought he won the Marlon Mudd Ice fight.

I thought it was close. I'm fine with it going either way. I didn't think it was a robbery. But in the minds of a lot. in many he was he's three and one at one 35 he put up a very competitive fight against peyodor yawn someone who was definitely favorite to beat him and that went all the way to the fifth round peyodor yawn outlast him he's the younger guy so that wasn't too surprising but either way in four fights at 135 all those look great he's he's he's he's looked like the guy that we call i think

what i think is one of the five greatest pound for pound fighters of all time so i don't know I don't know if anything really stood out. I kind of like what you said where, man, when you saw, you know, you saw that old version of, I should say vintage version of Aldo when those lasers get locked in. And Munoz, by the way, Munoz, to his credit, was never like out of the fight, but you just got the idea that once, once Aldo got to the, you know, to the level where he can get to, that that was a level that Munoz couldn't reach. And that's just how good, how good Jose Aldo is.

What really so much to me was after the fight, I tweeted something like, please Josie Aldo fight forever. And literally like the exact same second, Sean tweeted Josie Aldo forever. So it's just like, we were all, look, we were all feeling it tonight. And again, it's a shame someone else to win a fight like that and lose a fight like that. Pedro Munoz is a gentleman fighter, a super exciting fighter in his own right. But boy, I think a lot of us were glad to see Josie Aldo, his first win streak at 135. It's good stuff.

Yeah, it is not easy to do that against a guy like Pedro Munoz. And what he did, what Josealdo did tonight was he made, he actually made Pedro Munoz believe he couldn't win. Like in that third round, Pedro just, he went out there and just got through the round, but he knew he wasn't going to win. And that's so hard to do against a guy like that. But that just shows you how good Josealdo looked tonight. It was just a phenomenal performance, record setting numbers, so forth and so on. But Casey, for the interest of time, I want to talk about Ficente-Luke because he deserves some time. What a performance he had tonight against Michael Chiesa.

What a wild fight that was because in the early stages, Michael Chiesa was outstriking Vicente Lucke. He was landing good combinations. He was moving around, laterally, side to side. He was throwing Luke off a little bit. Lucke couldn't throw the leg kicks because Kiesa came out as a self-paw. Kieso's doing everything right. Luka lands a right hand, stings Kiesce a little bit.

Kiasa lands a takedown. And he has him in a rear naked choke. That thing is locked up, cranking away. Lucke stays calm, cool, collected, gets out of it. And then he turns it around. Darsh chokes Michael Kiesa and gets him to tap out in the first round. That was so ridiculous. Nobody saw that coming.

Vicente Lucay, man, he is a player. He is no longer exciting fringe top 10 guy. He's been a player. He's been a player and y'all have ignored it. Everybody's eyes at everybody's eyes. Now he's a top five guy knocking on the door of a title shot. is it fair to say that Vicente's Vicente Lucke's stock rose

more than anybody on this card tonight well outside of me outside of us outside of gone yeah outside of gone um yeah now go Luque yeah um Jose Otto was more more one of those um in case you forgot type things um but luke yeah that was that was shocking

how uh how dominant he was and um not only dominant but just he he's just so dang he's not just an excited fighter. He's a smart fighter. He's durable. He's, he does everything. He can knock you out. He can submit you. He can wrestle. He's got it all. The only thing is missing, unfortunately, for Lucay is probably the most important thing is he doesn't talk trash. And that's what the UFC wants. I'm sorry. I hate saying that out loud. But just minute for minute, one of the most exciting, all-action high-level fighters in MMA,

especially at Walter White. But I think with us journalists, we love Lukee, but I don't know how far he jumped ahead with the promotion. I don't know if Dana is like going, we got to get Lukee. I think you did.

I'm going to up. Maybe I'm wrong. I hope I'm wrong. I'm hoping I'm wrong. I'm going to up that Annie, Kesea, for what you just said, because I have been banging. You understand what I'm saying, though?

No, no, for sure. but I have been banging this drum for years now. I have been on this Vicente Lucay train from the very, very beginning. And at this point, it's fairly ridiculous to me that we had to reach this point. Because I think what you just said, Gaisi, I think if you lined, if you did like an experiment, you lined up 100, just die-hard MMA fans, all in a line, and you just went one by one, asked them to name the most violent welterweight on the UFC roster, the most exciting welterweight consistently on the roster.

I think there's a huge, huge chance that Lucke's name would maybe come up like a couple times at best. And the truth is, all of those other answers would just be wrong. Like, as Uriah Fabor likes to say, you got to check the record, bud. Because this dude at this point is just guaranteed ultraviolence. Every time he steps in the octagon, at this point, it's absurd.

14 and 2 with 13 stoppages over the last 16 fights. If he wins, if Vizette-Luke wins a fight, it is the closest thing that you get to just absolute madness every single time out. And his only losses over that stretch are Leon Edwards and Stephen Thompson. So,

At this point, this has to be the one that's going to get people to understand. And it feels like this might have finally been the one. Because I actually like what the UFC did here. When he lost to Stephen Thompson, usually when top five, top 10 contenders lose that type of fight where he lost pretty bad to Stephen Thompson. I mean, that was not a one-sided fight, but Stephen Thompson definitely won that fight. Usually at that point, the UFC would then feed him to somebody else and then you get a losing street going and then maybe you're out of contention.

But I like that they let him go down a little bit and feed on a. on some of the lower tiered welter weights, guys like a Nico Price of Randy Brown, even like a late stage Tyron Woodley, who's kind of obviously going into retirement at that point. Like, they really let Vicente Lucke get his consistency back, get that momentum back, and start feeling himself again before they sent him back up to the wolves now. And we saw it tonight. He came in here so confident against Michael Chiesa, and he just ran through him. I mean, that finishing sequence was absurd.

No one, no one submits Michael Chiasa that fast. And Vicente Leuke just did it. To me, this has to be the one. where people realize. And it felt like even Daniel White in the press conference admitted as much. Vicente Lucay is someone

who's going to matter now in this title contention. He's someone who's going to be a main player. I don't see how you could watch this man and deny him that at this point. Like, he has to be it. Yeah. I hope he is.

I hope you're right. This question was asked to Mike and I, I think, on the Q&A earlier today, whose stock was going to rise to most. And I actually do think Luque, even with the gun, winning the way he did, I actually do think Luque,

his stock was the most relative to where he was. Because I think gone, he's in a title fight, so he just raised his stock to from interim title contender to now. 80% chance of beating in Ghana. Well, I mean, that's nothing. But I mean, to undisputed title contender, Lucay, for whatever reason has, well, I just say for whatever reason.

We know why we said no trash talk, whatever, whatever, has lost some key fights here and there. But it just isn't viewed as a world title contender in people's eyes for some reason. But after tonight, I think he had the right call out, very respectfully called out Usman won in definitive fashion i think his stock rose relatively the most compared to anyone else that competed tonight so i'm i'm totally on on the on the luke bandwagon in that sense and by the way if anyone was asking like who knew how this fight would turn out this way he kind of did he he said i think it was at the media day like if keezza

brings this ground uh fight to the ground and thinks he's just going to dominate the ground he's got another thing coming he's like i'm more than happy to grapple with them. And I think Luke is, I don't know if he's a black belt. I think he's maybe like a brown belt in jujitsu, but I think he's one of those brown belts where it's like he just hasn't put in the time that you need to, you know what I mean? He's

trained he trains in other things. He just hasn't gone to the processes to become a black belt. For like all intents and purposes, if you watch this guy, again, you watch Sky Fight, you watch the submissions he locked on. This guy's, this guy's a black belt level like submission fighter at least in MMA. I bet I would bet he's in MMA. He'd outgraple

a lot of other actual black belts. I think he's really, really good. So his submission skills definitely, I think, surpass whatever his belt, his official belt status is. Well, in fact that he submitted Kiesa with really no ground stride. I mean, I thought maybe if he did submit Kiesa, it would be after a result of

some serious ground and pound. But this was straight up, just straight up Jiu-Jitsu. He got out of a submission first. Kiza had him in trouble. I think Luke, if he looked in his eyes, when Kiza was trying to lock it up, Even Lucke was kind of like, oh, shit.

Well, Luca had to respect. This is in fun. Yeah, this is a comfortable. Respect the choke that was in. And he did. And then I think, yeah. And then Keisa made just that slight mistake and just kept his head out there just for that one moment. And Luca is a...

That's the thing with Lucke, man. That slight mistake, you cannot make that slight mistake. He will jump on the first thing you give him and he will take as many risks as possible to get to that spot. I love it, man. It's guaranteed action. I don't, he is the nicest, most delightful man in person, too. Like, it is, it's so silly that it has taken this long, but I feel like it did happen. Was that, was that, was that, was the Germaine's article of, like him holding a baby?

Oh, yeah, Germay. I saw that photo. I was like, that's the cutest. I was like, that's the Cicente Luke. I was like, and I know you're, A.K., I know you're kidding with the give him a title shot, but I'll be honest, like, I'll be straight up. He deserves the title shot in this division much more so than Colby Covington and much more Of course he does.

Really, anybody else outside of maybe like a Leon Edwards. That was true before tonight. We all understand. This is the epitome of what we're talking about tonight. Why does Colby Coveington get a title shot? Why does Lucke not get a shot? Covington talks a lot. He talks a lot.

He struck some sort of chord with the NBA fan base. He had the rematch. Sorry, he had the first fight, which is very exciting to play off of. That's fine. That's why it's not like some huge travesty. Every UK fight is exciting. Yeah, but if we're just talking about qualifications, wins and losses, is Luque's ahead of Covington, Leon Edwards?

Like, Keisa was ahead of Covington. We're talking about wins and losses going to this fight. But so it is. Hopefully, Lucay does have the luxury now just waiting for his title shot. Whether he's next or not, I would like to give him. He absolutely does not have that luxury. He absolutely does not have that. He is, but I do feel as if he is one fight away.

Like he's maybe like a Leon Edwards fight away from Gilbert Burns. They wouldn't fight Gilbert Burns because they're teammates, but like a Leon Edwards fight away from doing that. Yeah. By the way, shout out to Gilbert Burns for cornering Vicente Lucay and then celebrating like he himself won the title. It's literally like another dude who's now in his way in his own division. Like we all must hope to have friends as good as Gilbert Burns. Like that dude is a gem out there, man.

He was legitimately so happy for his buddy to do this. Yeah. And when I spoke with Gilbert Burns after the Thompson win, Gilbert said he's in no rush to get back to the title. He wants it against Usman. He doesn't care if it takes 10 fights to get there. he will just fight and win and get back there. And I think that's just a great way to approach it. Real quick, before we pretty much run down the rest of the card and say goodbye,

Sean, did you like Luke A's call out? Do you feel like he wasted a call out there, calling out Usman? Or should he have gone back to the Nate train? You loved it? No, I love it. Go back to the Nate train. He's not going to get any Dia's fight. Like, for Vicente Leuke, what was important tonight was to let people know,

A, I'm someone, again, who matters in this division, but also B, like, I'm someone who deserves to be in this conversation when we're talking about potential opponents for Kamar Usman. So, like, that was what his job was, was to at the end of that fight, let people know, you need to be talking about me. Regardless of whether you like it or not, I deserve to be in this conversation,

and I feel like he did that. So I thought it was a great call-out. He's in such an interesting spot right now. As Roxanne Modifari once said on the Ultimate Fighter, shoot for the moon, and you'll land on the stars. Listen, so shoot for the Usman. Shoot for the Usman.

You may land on a Diaz. So a very good call-out by Vigente Lucca. But stars are actually, I actually think he's a moon. So that's like distance-wise. Are you, are you, this came from. Not all of them, though. Not a barrel of them, though.

Oh, no. Oh, there's lots of moons. There's some close stars, too. Okay, all right. Don't question Roxy's homespun wisdom. Don't you dare, Casey Leighton. Don't you dare.

This, this performance tonight, I actually think he's a very good shot of getting that Nate fight. I think Nate woke up and was like, I want to fight that guy. I think it's a very good chance he gets that fight. And I think that's probably the best thing for him right.

I think it's the best thing that could happen to him right now. Signed me up for that. Yeah. I think that's the best thing that can happen because I think they'll go with Gilbert and Leon. And then, I mean, what do you do? Just does he fight Wonderboy again and try to avenge that loss?

He's ranked one spot above him in the UFC kind of fake rankings, not the MMA fighting global rankings, but you know what I mean? Like he's just in a weird spot where he's either going to have to fight behind him or he's going to have to shoot for a Mazadol or a Diaz and hope he can land one of those fights.

But I think he's got a real good shot at Nate in getting his attention. So if I'm him, go for that, get that rub. And go for the title. Real quick, guys. Global rankings, quick global rankings preview. Would any of you guys put gone over Miotich now in your ranking?

rankings. It's very, it's something I'll have to think about. I haven't thought about it until right now, but probably know. He was tied for fourth in our rankings, tied for fourth with Blades, Curtis Blazeman. So would you put him all the way up to? I would. I would. I would. Oh, okay. Well, we'll see. You know, I'm not looking you in. Casey, I'm not locking you in. We don't, you know, we'll find out next month, uh, what the official rankings are. I'm not locking you in, but I was just curious. Yeah, just, just from the, the dominance of. Alla Gunn's wins.

I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't,

30 seconds of a, of a round. Mm-hmm. Yeah, so, um, and if I, if I,

if I, if I, maybe, might have won, I don't know, but if you would have won, there was, there was,

there was, there was, it was, how can you, how, Jesus Christ, the short-term memory of everybody in MMA.

Steve-Me, Steve-Me, see me, oh, come on. Oh, oh, Let's save.

Guys, no, I'm sorry. Mike, I apologize. It's my fault. Let's save it for the ranking show that hasn't come out yet. The short-term memory of everybody in this sport is crazy to me. I didn't pick God over in Ganu. I'm picking God over. But you just said that you didn't think Steepa could have beaten Derek Lewis convincingly.

Like, come on, man. What do we do? Stipe Miotich was the greatest heavyweight of all time like months ago. No, no, no. No, I'm on the Jed train. The Jed's crazy, but Jed was right about Steepie. okay Wow

It's like We need to keep We need to keep We're going to A long time Blame that guy We got a long time We got a long time

Until we actually vote I'm just stirring the pot I can't help But I'm a podster I'm a podster Yes There will And by the way

There will be a ranking show So be Buckle your damn seatbelts For that show Because God I don't even know If I could be on that show I might actually have to just watch

From afar Friendships are going to be Destroyed on that show Is what's going to happen We need like a heart rate monitor. Like at some point I'm going to, at some point I'm going to say something to either Casey or Jed that I deeply regret like afterwards of like,

hey, I'm sorry, man. I didn't actually mean that. Yeah, there's going to be some private slack messages after all of these shows. I'm sorry, man. I apologize. Yeah, God. I do want to shout out the rest of the winners of tonight. Tisha Torres, great performance over Angela Hill.

Best performance is, yeah. not even 24 years old to be 24 years old in December so much room for that guy to grow how about raphael fazeve good lord this guy is a straight killer what a great fight that was fight of the night i called it uh Vince Morales gets a win alonzo menafield gets a win jesska peney congratulations to her big finish over carolina kovacovic she got 50 gs minel kate would have got 50 gs had he not missed weight that was a sick flying knee uh miles johns he got 50k Amazing.

For that beautiful knockout in the third round. I got that one perfect. Mosa Gato, good win for her. Johnny Munoz Jr. I got that one perfect, too. But then everything just collapsed for me moving on. So congratulations. You know, technically I won if we're going by topology scoring system.

Barely. I think I literally won by 25 points. All right, all right. Congratulations. But we actually had a four-way. If we're just going on a picks, we actually had a four-way tie with that freaking nine. A much gentleman, a much better. showing that our UFC Vegas 33 selections.

Yeah, and I was the basement dweller, just sitting there all by myself. Everyone's all hanging out and tied for first. And then there's a little old me with seven correct picks like a jackass. Unbelievable. After a four and oh start and two perfect picks, I finished last. You started off so good. See, I know the prospects. Apparently, I don't know anything else about the wily vets.

Your time will come. Your time will come, Mike. Yes, these guys will all get to Wiley Vet status, and I'll be way ahead of all of you. But I think that's it. I think we have talked about this card enough, a.k. you and I are going to talk about this card even more. I can't even begin to tell you how many DMs I've gotten already with matchmaking picks.

So we might be in for like an hour and a half show tomorrow. Easy coming out of this one. But I will say a little teaser, my Derek Lewis next fight, might ruffle some feathers, AK. That's all I'm going to say. What a T's. But you'll have to find out sometime tomorrow when that gets released

and then a Monday on the website, but we're getting out of here. Thank you for watching. Thank you for following along all week long for UFC 265 for AK for E. Casey Liden for Sean Al-Shadi I am Mike Heck. Play softball kids. We'll learn about athletics.

Practice is the real game. Practice is the real game. Peace. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast work.