MMA Fighting - UFC 287 Post-Fight Show | Reaction To Israel Adesanya's Revenge KO, Masvidal Retirement

Episode Date: April 9, 2023

Israel Adesanya put an exclamation point on his first victory against longtime nemesis Alex Pereira as he regained the UFC middleweight title with an absolutely vicious knockout to cap off UFC 287 in Miami. Following the event, MMA Fighting's Mike Heck, Shaheen Al-Shatti, and Jed Meshew react to Adesanya's incredible finish, his post-fight speech, if going right back to another matchup is the way to go, Dana White suggesting Pereira may move to 205, and more. Additionally, they discuss Gilbert Burns' win over Jorge Masvidal in the co-main event, Masvidal announcing his retirement, and what could be next for Burns, Rob Font's sensational finish of Adrian Yanez, 18-year-old Raul Rosas Jr. suffering his first career loss to Christian Rodriguez, and more. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Shaun Al-Shatti: @ShaunAlShatti Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. This episode is brought to you by Peloton. A new era of fitness is here.

Introducing the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus, powered by Peloton IQ. Built for breakthroughs with personalized workout plans, real-time insights, and endless ways to move. Lift with confidence, while Peloton IQ counts reps, corrects form, and tracks your progress. Let yourself run, lift, flow, and go. Explore the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus at OnePeloton.ca. listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. All right, everybody. We are live coming off of UFC 287. We have a new middleweight champion, or at least once again.

The middleweight champion has a name, and his name is Israel Adasania viciously, knocking out Alex Pereira in the second round to reclaim the title that he lost to the same man five months ago. We had Jorge Mazadol announced his retirement. following his loss to Gila Burns. Y'all must have forgot about Rob Font, Kevin Holland. Interesting performance had some things to say about Dana White

that Dana wouldn't even repeat. At the post-fight press conference, an 18-year-old Raoul Roses Jr. Suffers his first loss, and those are among the many storylines that have come out of the promotions returned to Miami for the first time in over 20 years. But thank you for joining us.

I am Mike Heck in the middle. That is Jed Mishu. On the right, the wise wordsmith himself Shaheen Al-Shadi. So Shaheen UFC 287 is in the books. Israel, Adasania, exercised the demons and

it seems like he has exercised them for good. He feels like he has nothing more to prove. He says, Pereira needs to go back to the drawing board and go through the hard times like he had to do. And here we are. Just a couple hours away removed from

Adasani's vicious knockout. Your thoughts on Adasani's performance, how the main event went and the freaking exclamation point that the last style bender put on Alex Pereira. Yeah, exclamation point is right. No kidding. First off, I have to say, just for the podcast listeners that are listening to this, in fact, you guys can't see this, but Mike is still just sporting, just a tremendous Miami get up from the watch party tonight. And I am very much appreciative that you do not change and that you were still representing the 305 for us here on this post-fi show. You're looking tremendous, Mike. Heck. Thank you. I am wearing

flannel pajama pants on the bottom, just to break down the fourth wall. But continue, please. You could be lying to us right now, though. You could be wearing some nice slacks, some white slacks. I don't know. Okay, well. There you go.

Proof is in the pudding. There we go. Look, it's very late for you, fellas, over there. Man, that was really something, right? Like, that was an incredible, incredible performance. That was remarkable theater to watch. And this just, this rivalry, what this rivalry has become between Izzy and

Alex at this point is really one of the most incredible things that I've seen in combat sports. It's just, it's such tremendous theater every time out because we are now four fights deep in whatever this is, whatever this has become, whatever this maybe will end up being. And in each of these four fights, there is a similar theme in that what is happening up until the exact moment the fight ends is not what you expect when it comes to the actual ending of the fight, right? Like first fight, is he more or less won and then Alex wins the fight? then the next two, it's come from behind victories.

And now this one, it very much felt like once again, the momentum was on Alex's side this time. He was the one with the low kicks. He was the one with the calf kicks. It looks like he had Izzy in trouble. And, you know, Izzy's now saying that was a roped open. I actually tend to believe him when you rewatch it again. I've rewatched that second round a couple times now.

And then Izzy comes back with the thunderous knockout and turns the tables. And it's just, once again, every single time we see these two men fight, it is such drama. It is such theater. The ending comes in a way that you just don't expect. It is one of the coolest rivalries I've seen in combat sports. And you mentioned at the top, Mike, that it seems like Izzy and almost even Dana, too, we're ready to move on. And to me, that seems insane.

Because I would just, this feels like this story is not done. This feels like what we're at now is sort of the middle part, right? It's the two towers of the Lord of the Rings saga. Like, there is still one more left to go. I need to see these dudes do this one more time. There's nothing else more interesting in the middleweight division than what these guys have going on. But we can talk about that later in the show. Right now, we just need to focus on Izzy because that was a tremendous championship level

performance to be able to come back against his own personal boogeyman. And again, it felt like the momentum was trending the opposite direction, the wrong direction. We've talked about it so much with these immediate rematches that how often does the person who loses the first fight end up winning the second fight? That very, very rarely happens. But Izzy with that championship medal, that savvy, just the ability to make the adjustments on the fly and pounce when the moment counted. Like that was incredible to watch.

That's why you love MMA. Nights like tonight and that main event are why you love MMA. I loved everything about that fight. I really hope we can see another one. But in the meantime, Izzy is the champion. Is he is the second base, best middle weight of all time. And he just proved that again tonight. That was incredible.

Jed was this the fight you expected. You thought Izzy was going to go in there and knock out Alex Pereira? I thought he was going to do it as well. I picked third round knockout. You picked first round knockout. We meet in the middle in round number two. And what a knockout it was. Was this the fight you expected now that you've,

because I think you went back and rewatched it, right? Sure did. Not quite. So, and for very different reasons, because I thought Alex Pereer is never going to get his flowers. And I understand that. I thought he, Izzy clearly wanted to do some things in there.

lot of success doing it. He did not give ground nearly as easily. He really dictated, took the initiative for a lot of that fight, which I think was pivotal for him getting the win. But Pereira was adjusting well. Like we've seen Pereira not do very well when somebody is really putting pressure on him and he was pretty well-schooled. You heard him or heard him through the translator say to his corner at the end of the first. Like I'm seeing the right hand. I know what he's doing and I'm chopping the leg down. Frankly, I thought that was working. I disagree. Shaheen. I have serious doubts about the possum part of it. I thought

his game plan was working and it's so so this wasn't the fight I thought because both dudes came out really well and we're doing different things to take to take the initiative away from their opponent. So it was a great fight. It was a good performance

from both dudes. A great comeback knockout from Izzy. Again, I don't buy the possum thing. I've watched it twice now and he got kicked a bunch in the leg. I'm not saying that he was done, done, but he got kicked in the leg and was moved against the fence and he ate a nasty potty shot against the fence, but he always had his eyes on him and he was looking for the big shot. To me, that is the biggest difference of this fight is that Izzy was very, it's frustrating

because this is the thing we said leading into their first MMA fight. There's the thing we talked about almost adenosium coming into this is like, you just got to fight the dude at some point. Like you can't try to play perfect point fighter, you know, out of Sonia. That's just not going to work. At some point, you're just going to have to say, we are going to trade punches, and I am comfortable and okay with that. And we saw him do it before the finishing sequence to good effect sometimes.

I mean, most of the time it was happening, he was at least getting the respect and landing shots of his own there. And then ultimately, we saw what it led to. And so this was obvious, this was a great, busy, it took him three times. Let's be honest. It took him four times. It took him three failures to finally learn, but learn he did and came out and fought better for it and ended up getting probably the biggest one of his career. Emotionally, it certainly is the biggest one of his career.

You know, when all said and done, I don't know if it will be looking back like, oh, that's the most impressive win if he's in a May career. But this will go when we inevitably do the damn they were good on Israel-Dissia, this will be one of the. of the four Mount Rushmore's. I think everybody will agree with that one. Shaheen? I just have to add, like, re-watching that finishing sequence. I think I would agree halfway

with what you're saying in terms of the finishing sequence and playing possible. I think there was an element of, okay, this is familiar, so I'm going to hang back and maybe play overstate what's going on here. Because there was an element,

like, he, Alex laid it, a lot of those shots. And in particular, that knee that he threw in that sequence was monstrous. The rib roaster, right before the knee, you can physically see Izzy's body slump. That lands. And then that knee is nasty. But Izzy would stay with it and then came in with that right hook before Pereira could get in. So I'm not taking anything away from him. I just think that the possum story is not true. I mean, I think it's probably partly true. But regardless, that knee and like you said, the ribrosters, that's going to knock out a lot of people in a lot of divisions. I'll just say that.

I just again, the magic. We got a rib-roaster knockout on the prelims, and it was not nearly as nasty. It's what Alex Perea delivered. Yeah. The magic these two men make, whenever they're in any sort of combat arena is just, it's sublime, man. Again, it's sublime. I hate to repeat myself, but this is why you watch, right?

Like this type of fight and just watching the moment to moment of this was just so incredible. And then even Izzy afterwards, his sense of the moment with these things and the theatrical nature the way he presents himself in these moments of the iconic photos now of him over Alex doing the bow and arrow and just like the whole celebration like all of it just felt so I don't know man it is just again I've said it a couple different times but it's just such an incredible to see these athletes pull this out in moments like this where like this could have been if this got went any possible wrong other way is he's down at four to fights forever for this guy is he's getting chased by this

guy for the rest of his life. He's seeing Alice Pereira memes in his comments section for the next 30 years of his life. He is just going to be ghosted by or followed like a ghost haunted, like a ghost for the rest of his life by this man. And he just manages to pull it out in that type of moment where again, it's kind of hurt, kind of momentum going the wrong way. It's just amazing to watch. Yeah. And when they went back and like when the fight was over and they showed the replays of the big moments in the fight, most of those moments came from Alex Pereira. And not just the calf kicks is he took some big shots i mean he took some big shots in that fight and was able to get through it and that was pretty impressive stuff so jeanne you are on team run this ship back a

third time in the enemy cage in the ufc cage let's do that jad do you agree with that are you on board with this idea i wouldn't mind it if that's where they go it doesn't sound like they want to do that um look i'll watch these dudes fight a bunch because this this fight was frank frankly more different than their previous two fights were from the other ones. You know what I'm saying? Like this showed depth and difference to me, and I would be fascinated to see if Izzy has really internalized this lesson comes out similarly, what Pereira takes from this and kind of moves forward with.

I'd love to watch a rematch. I don't think you have to do it for the reasons that I think, not the reasons I think it won't happen. I will hand up, I'm going to be real honest. I did not listen to Izzy's post-fight. I listened to his post-fight speech in the octagon, and that was enough for me. I don't, I don't want to be the Debbie Downer

of this event. So I was like, I'm good on his post-fight presser. I don't need that. I've heard some of the things he said, and it doesn't sound like he's super interested in doing this again, to your point earlier, Mike. But I think that's more for different reasons

than me personally. I would be incredibly happy to watch Israel Destiny a fight trick as two plus see. I think that fight would both be hilarious and fun and in meritocratic, frankly. Like, I know DDP doesn't have like a top two or three win or whatever, but he strung together a bunch of good wins over top guys. And I am of the opinion that MMA is more fun

when your champions fight a variety of people instead of the same two or three contenders over and over again. Pereira, we all knew what this was. We fast-tracked him into a title shot. He converted, good for him. They did the rematch. They're both one-in-one. This is a back-pocket fight that can happen at any point in time.

And we can maybe let this one sit for, you know, a fight or two because I do think DDP would be a fun one. And Izzy seems to be somewhat interested in that fight. And so that would be a cool fight to rock, you know, a UFC-Africa event would be pretty sick. So that would be my choice. If we get prayer, I'm not going to be upset by it. Shane, please. This is crazy to me.

I don't understand. I don't understand what I'm listening to, what I'm hearing this. Because you're- We're seeing, like, if we get this back, again, it's a good fight. I would like to stop writing the same fucking pass to victory every three months. This is just a selfish take. This is just a selfish take on your part. But it is in that way.

respect, but it's also like broader. We talked about it coming in this. It was like, I don't know what else to say about this fight. And you know what we did the week before? I don't really know what else to say about this fight because we're watching Leah and Camaro fight again. And guess what? We're about to get Amanda Nunes fighting Juliet out of pain again.

I don't care. I don't care. Please give me new fights. I do not care. The next one is a new fight. The next one is a new fight. The dynamic has shifted now. This is a completely new thing that we are.

Better shit. Nah, man. You're out here. advocating for DDP versus Izzy being far more intriguing than watching what we just watching. I said way funnier. It's going to be way funny. I don't care about funny.

Like, I'm here for legendary. The next one would be legendary. That would, we're in the midst of one of the great trilogies in MMA history if this, if this continues to play out. And the fact that until I hear from Alex Pereira's mouth, I'm going to 205, I am not going, like I'm not down with that idea that Dana White seems to be just trying to shoehorn him up, up this division, because this is not resolved.

this does not feel finished, right? Like, this is one to three. It's one to one, really, but like one to three ultimately. Like, this is not the end of this story. And hold on, hold on. If it's one to three, it's finished. Three to one is a win. Well, in that case, it should have been finished to three to zero.

In that case, it should have been finished to three to zero. But it's not because it's a different sport, right? So it's one to one. This is not finished. And the idea that this is a back pocket fight that you can go to whenever, that is not with merit to me because it does not feel like, Israel, Asana is someone who is going to be around for the long haul. He very much feels like someone who has come in this game, made his money, built his legacy, and it's kind of just pretty

happy with what he's done at this point. And it feels like someone who, once he walks away, we're just not going to see him again. Like, in general, like, he's just happy in his life, doing other things. He's interested in other things. He alluded to it in his post-pipe press conference. I don't know how many fights left that guy has. And I'm not trying to waste one of those fights on a middling contender when we have something so incredible in front of us. This is the same thing

that we always tell the UFC, do the thing, do the thing. Do the thing. Like this is it. This trilogy could be monstrous that this fight is so intriguing on a different level now given the results we just got tonight

to do it again. Everyone advocating against this is insane to me because what's the alternative? The alternative is DDP which is whatever. That's not going anywhere. Or Robert Whitaker for the third time, who's already down 02 in the series. That is far less interesting to me. Or you're bringing Hamzat Shemayev in who hasn't actually fought a relevant person at 185 at all.

Like if we're going to complain so much about Colby Covington getting the title shot, Hamzat's title shot is infinitely worse than whatever Colby is like that Colby would get in 170. You have to do the trilogy. If you don't do the trilogy, it has to solely be because Alex Pereira says, I can't make this weight anymore. I'm going to 205. And until he, I watch him say those words, I can't, I'm not getting off this. Like, that, it's insane to me to do anything but the trilogy because it will be massive.

Like tonight made Izzy a much bigger star than he has ever been in his entire life when it comes to the UFC. And if they do this a third time, the optics of all of it, of just those two guys standing in the cage. And also the brilliance that they give us when they're in the cage. Like, it is magic. It is absolute magic. It is sublime to watch these two technicians put on this, the work that they do in there. it has to be the third fight it has to i mean i'm what am i going to repeat my points it's like i'm not going to be mad about it i think we rush these things way too much and we could let this one breathe

a little bit you can you can open up a wine and let it decant for a moment but if they run it back it's fine too i just think it would be hilarious to watch ddp fight is he in africa and the buildup to that would be tremendous who's the real african fighter it'd be great maybe, look, maybe Israel Asana wants to come and host the show because he could do our jobs better than we can. I don't know. I don't know if you missed that little

tidbit of information at the post-by presser, but I intentionally did watch the post-fired presser because I was extremely confident it would just infuriate me because almost every time that man has a mic in front of them now, it makes me very upset. So I don't have any idea what you're talking about.

Hold on, Mike. Where do you fall on this? Like, what do you want to see next? I know you host a very popular show that is very well done and everyone should listen to it tomorrow. It's called On to the Next One. It's a great show on a great program, or I'm sorry, on a great podcast network, which is also conveniently on a great website.

But I need to know, like, where do you stand on this? Are you with, or Jed on this, or are you with me? I'm with you, but the clock is ticking. For the reasons that Dana White said, there's, I just don't know how many cuts he has left at 185. So I'm with you. Until Alex Pereira says, look, I can't do this anymore.

then you have to do it. November, December, it's a huge fight. And let's not forget what the December pay-per-view looked like last year. We got Garbo. That was a bad main event. In Kalaya of Blackwoods. Yeah.

We got a draw and no new champion so that we could do another vacant title fight at the next pay-per-view. We need to set that card up to be a monster again. And I'm not saying run it right back, but November, December, if that headlines MSG again, if you need a big fight, boom, you have one. If you need to do in December, boom, you have one. But if that way cut is just too much for Pereira, totally understand it.

Totally understand. 205, he ain't far away from a title shot at 205, the way that Dana talks about him. He's probably a win, maybe two away from getting there. So, yeah, if Pereer is willing to make this cut one more time, then yes, that's the fight you make. but if he's not, then we just got to move on. But I'm with you. I'm fascinated by it. And if it doesn't happen, I don't think this is a back pocket fight.

Unless he just gets totally bored at 185 and somehow Pereira is the long-raining light heavyweight champion. And he has just cleaned out that division and out of sign. He's like, you know what? I'll go up and try to win a second belt again. So, but yeah, I think it's something you got to do quickly. You know what I mean? That's kind of where I'm at. I'm also ashamed of both of you for failing to mention the other possible fight for Issy,

middleweight title defense against his other nemesis, Jan Bolhovich. Oh, that's right. Jan Belhovic said he would go down to 185. Yeah, you got to shoot your shot. You got to shoot your shot. Rob Whitaker being like, see you soon. Izzy was the funniest shit that happened all night. He was like, why?

Are you guys going to play a board game or something? I'll tell you what, man. I know, we already know what happens there. I'll tell you what, man. Jan has, Leon at least has a case. Like, that's got to be something that, like, Izzy might be like, hmm, I've exercised, like, the demon. Maybe I'll try to exercise one more and try to beat that.

It would rule so much ass to see Izzy finally overcome his nemesis to just get, like, leg checked into the shittiest loss decision in his belt again. It would be funny as hell. Yon at 185, I'm kind of interested. But no, it's the trilogy fight. It has to. This is by far the most interesting middleweight has been in a long, long time. Like, why are we trying to speed rush this out of here? Like, let's savor this.

Let's revel in it and let's finish the story. This is not a done story. That's all. I don't understand people saying that this is over because it can't be over. It's one to one. Is he feels like it's done? Of course, wouldn't you? Dude, if you beat me three times and something and then the next time I, the fourth time I beat you pretty handily, yeah, I'm walking away, be like, hey, I did it.

I got you. I got you. Like, I'm not trying to run that back. Of course. If I'm busy, I'm saying the same thing. But money talks, man. Look, you're the type of guy who would make the miracle on ice team beat the Russians three times out of five or whatever to solidify that gold medal. That's what I'm hearing from you, Sheen.

I'll shoddy. You want Izzy to lose again. No. I need, no, I want to see the completion of this now, because this is infinitely more interesting than it was 48 hours ago now. It's like this, that was, are you, are you, really? I'm not sure this is more interesting. I feel like it's almost, it's kind of the exact same level of interesting of like,

these are two very evenly matched dudes. Because now it's, the next fight will have a completely different dynamic of Izzy going in, having the upper hand. he has not had the upper hand once in this entire series when it comes to these fights. Like this is such a different level of a dynamic. And also, I just want to see. You say that, though, but now he won't be a dog that needs to be let off the collar or whatever dumb shit.

It's true. He'll come this time. So he's not going to have the same energy. So really, he will be weaker than ever before coming into this matchup. That's true. There will be no collars to let him off. That is a fair point. Well, the rivalry may not be done.

But the career of Jorge Mazzol is done. Can we talk about the actual biggest thing that happened before we get Jorge Mastral? Sure. How is he walking out to Trapped? Yeah. Is trapped the new like the anti-M&M walkout song now? Hey, that was the most shocking thing that happened tonight. It was like, I don't know what's going on anymore, guys.

That was a real fever dream moment, right? Because that was like right after Jorge just going full MAGA in his retirement, like kind of using his retirement speech due to that. And then, like, at that point, all the young guys who were supposed to win on the card had already lost, and it's like, what's actually going on in Miami right now? Dude, I waited for, like, a good 30 seconds to make sure that it wasn't, so they weren't, like, it was a remix where they were just taking the intro. I was like, no, this is, he's just come, he's singing along to head.

He was fired up by it. He was really into it, too. He comes to the case. It's like, okay. That song, that song is two years older than Raoul Roses Jr. That's a statistic right there. Yes. When I got a great deal on a great gift at winners,

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On link on C4A.C.A. or in magazine? Well, Jorge Mazadol Yes, Jorge Mazadol has retired. He lost to Gilwood Burns. I have to say this was not the fight I expected. Burns wins. He won pretty convincingly.

But here's what I think, Shaheen. This win didn't do him any favors. You know what I mean? Like, I feel like I feel like he didn't get accomplished very much from this. Because I think he had, I think he had Mazadol in a position where he could have put him away in the third round and he didn't do it.

So I think overall his performance, yeah, he got the win, but it wasn't the type of showing he needed against a guy who was clearly a foot out the door, clearly wasn't the same guy by any stretch of the imagination. I know Mazdaal was somewhat competitive in the first round and he had his moments and all. But I just felt like,

Like, I don't know. I feel like this was a B-minus at best for Gilbert Burns. What say you? I can see where you're coming from on that. I ultimately just don't think it matters, though. Because I don't think that there's anything Gilbert could have done tonight that would change anything realistically, right? Unless he really came out in like Jorge Mazvedal,

and just like five-second flying knee-caoed him, like nothing he could have done would have ultimately led him to a different place that he sort of finds himself in now. Because it seemed like he got what he wanted at the end of the night. right, Daniel White says, hey, you're going to be the back of fighter, you want to be the backfire, you're that guy.

So he didn't, it's not like Burns got the next title shot. He just sort of got the spot as next in line after next in line, which is sort of the peak of what could have played out for him, even if he had done something in highlight real fashion. Ultimately, he just needed a win because he needed to keep his spot.

That was the big thing for Gilbert Bernstein. He's like he can't go out here and lose to Jorge Mass at all who, at least on the MMA fighting rankings, was unranked. And I think on the UFC rankings, was maybe like 12th or 11th or 10th or like in that range right something like that like if you're gilbert burns who is ostensibly a title contender in one fight away you can't lose that fight and so he came out here and he did you know he won the fight i thought it was a very fun fight for the most part like

it wasn't anything you're right home about and anything you're going to go back and rewatch a bunch of times but he did what he needed to do and he proved once again something that we all know at this point that gilbert burns is very very good at this whole mma thing like it's just something he tends to be very good at. So he kept his spot and ultimately he sort of reserved his next spot, which I think was the best case outcome for him outside of again, like doing the fastest knockout in UFC history and then cutting some incredible Miami promo to steal Kobe Coving's spot. Like that was just not going to happen. So I see where you're coming from, but he did what he needed to. Yeah, I don't know if I buy Dana just being like, sure, he's the backup. You know what I mean?

I don't know. It seems like he was interested in Bilal Mohammed versus Kabar Usman, which does that put kind of put Burns on the back burner even more now? Because I felt like they would just pivot right to Bilal and Burns. I feel like that would have been a very sensical fight for the moment. I feel like Bilal stock has risen a little bit. He ran with the Colby Media Tour

and the John Anna comments and got over in the biggest way he has throughout his entire career more than any of his performances have. And he's in a pretty good spot where people are actually interested in seeing Bilal fight Colby or at this point even Balal. Like I feel like that could be like a legit number one contender fight at this point.

But it seems like Dana is on Balal and Usman. And I don't know. It just seems kind of, it was a fine way. It was a good win. This was there's no controversy here. I just felt like Burns, Jed in the third round probably could have done more and put a, put a stamp on it. But I'm not here to nitpick or anything like that. I mean, perhaps I am a little bit.

But there you go. What did you think of this performance? I'm with you. This is going to sound a bit bad coming for me because I've historically been the Gilbert Burns hater of this website. Not that I hate Gilbert Burns, but I just have never, I've never believed in him despite the fact that he has done nothing but prove himself to be an exceedingly capable MMA fighter.

I think he looked older and he is older. I mean, obviously Mosswood all retires. He's 38. Gilbert is 36. That's past it. That's past your athletic peak. and I think that that's a lot of what we saw there. I thought he won cleanly,

but there were large swaths of that fight where Mossfidal was very competitive in just that they weren't doing a ton either way, and that's not what you want to see, at least not what I want to see, because of where I think Jorge Mossfiel is as a well-to-weight fighter at this stage of his career. So I like you.

I don't leave impressed by Gilbert Burns. I don't leave thinking like, oh, he sucks. He's like, yeah, he's still good at fighting. He's got more than enough to beat Hory Moss for all. But the time the pumpkin is about to come. Like, it's really running out for him very soon. And, I mean, I guess he's going to be the backup fighter. I don't really know because that role as back of fighter is not going to mean shit.

If they are doing Belaw versus Usman and Blah, If Belal beats Usman, which I probably won't say it's going to happen. But if it does happen, then it doesn't matter who's the backup fighter. Ballal's going to get the title fight if he beats Usman. So I would have much preferred Burns to make better choices with this post-fight speech. We were on the watch-long, you know, call out. You were calling for the Belaw. I thought Shavkat, just be the guy who's going to fight.

He started by saying, I'll fight anybody, you know. I'll fight anybody. just follow that up, but like, I'll fight Chavcott. He's a dude no one wants right now. I'll fight Chavok for a title fight. And now he would have gotten that fight. It would be in great shape. Now we'll see.

We'll see where it ends up. And Jorge Mazzal takes the gloves off. Nantz's retirement in Miami. He kind of teased if this would happen. And he did it. And I feel like this was the right time to do it. So what a career the man had. From the very beginning to 2019, what a run this guy had, Shaheen.

I mean, just pretty damn good career. End up getting to multiple title shots. They created a title for him and Nate Diaz to headline a card at MSG. I mean, this guy did almost everything. And, you know, he was, you know, Colby calls him a journeyman and uses it in a bad way. But he's probably like one of the best definitions of a journeyman, a guy who has been through hell and back, made it through, did it for all these years, proved a lot of people wrong, got to the highest. levels of the sport. And when his time was up, he said, yeah, my time's up and I'm ready to go and he got to do it

in front of his home crowd. So what was your reaction once, Mazadol took the gloves off and said he was done? Bro, Jorge Mazurol fought at Belator 1. Like, that was his 20th pro-M-MA fight at Bellator 1. What is Belator at right now? Like, 200 and something? He's just the fact that he's been around this. Yeah, the fact that he's been around this long

And really like I when I say this I very very much don't mean this as an insult So I don't I hope it's not received as one He is one of the great overachievers His career and what sort of he was able to accomplish with his career He's one of the great overachievers in MMA of the last 20 years Of the last 30 years probably Because like the way that his career played out

Simply does not happen Like he was well deep deep into it more than a decade deep. He was like in his mid-30s when sort of the star turn came. And he was already who he was at that point. He was a guy who had a lot of, I think our good buddy, A.K. Lee tweeted out today where he had like a five-year run of nothing but decisions. And a lot of them were split decisions. And he was just a very frustrating guy who was losing a lot of fights that he should have won and winning fights that maybe he should have lost. And he was just kind of like this 500 fighter for a really long stretch there who was just almost like another name, another face

on a lot of these cards. And then all of a sudden, the way he was able to reinvent himself around 2017, 18, 19 rage, frankly, again, just does not happen. Like, there are not a lot of examples you can point to throughout the history of this sport of people who have been able to manufacture something that late in their career to completely reinvent themselves and turn into a superstar, the level that Jorge Maslodal genuinely did, because he had a real moment for what, like one, two, almost three years where he was one of the biggest superstars in the sport.

And I'm sure he made a lot of money. He said tonight, you know, I'm a multimillionaire. Like, good for you, Jorge Meswell. Because I'm sure five, six, seven years ago, that dude was not thinking, man, I'm going to get out of this whole MMA thing after 20 years and be a multimillionaire. Like, that was probably not in his plans or the ideas of what this would be back then. And so the fact that he was able to do what he did in sort of this final chapter of his career is frankly, like it's, I wouldn't put it quite up with like a Michael Bisping or a Glover

to share of, right? Because those guys won the title. and pretty much reshaped their destiny, like reshaped how we will think of them historically. But he's writing that next tier of guys who have just completely reinvented themselves so late in their career and completely changed the way we would perceive them

from a historical setting because I think if this last run had not happened, there would not be Jorge Mazuradol conversations taking place in 10 years, right? Like we would not be talking a lot about Jorge Mazur. He'd be a guy who stuck around for a long time who fought in a lot of different promotions, fought a lot of really, really good guys, was always really competitive and really tough.

But he didn't have like those moments that you would remember. But now he does. He very much does. And I'm sure five, ten years from now, people will still be talking about Jorge Mazvedol in some glowing way or remembering fondly of the Ben Ascran run or just that whole 2019 run where Wins Fighter of the year out of nowhere. Like it was frankly quite miraculous the way all of this played out. And good for you, Jorge Mazel, man. Not a lot of guys from that era in particular that he started in.

were able to last as long as he did and can say that they came out of this, you know, with fat bank accounts and giant mansions in Miami. Like that dude won. He won the race. And ultimately, like, screw titles. Like, that's what this is all about is just winning the race. And he very much won the race. So hell of a career, man.

Kudos to you for you did it. Like, very few people do it and you did it. Jed, what would you like to say about Mr. Moss at all now that his career is over? I'm disappointed in Shaheen, fam saying that people wouldn't have been talking about. them when right next to him there's a dude with a podcast entirely devoted to talking about old guys in the sport and i would sure have been talking about horre moscow all then i will tell you if i'm really excited for the horay moscowal episode we're going to get if if the 2018 to 19 and onward run had not happened there is a 2% chance that he gets a damn they were a good episode

maybe maybe it would have been in like episode 143 like it would have been really deep when we're running ideas. No, he would have for sure gotten one because he was the guy was originally supposed to be about journeymen. The show was originally supposed to be about cool journeymen. Like, oh, man, those guys were fun. Quarry Mosswood was fun for a minute. And then he had this, but I agree with most everything, she said. Like, it was, he won. He won. I don't know if he's going to continue to be a multimillionaire. If he keeps putting on GameBred boxing events, that probably costs $8 million a piece. And I cannot imagine delivered return on that. But if he is a millionaire, I hope he is doing well.

This is about as good of a retirement as you could hope for in this sport. He gets to go out in front of Miami where he made his career debut 20 years ago. You know, he's not the main event, but he was the main event, certainly for that crowd, that they were there for him. And he gets to go out still being a top 20. I think he's, is he a far for us? Either way, he's, you know, still one of the top. Walter weights in the world in the grand scheme of things.

And like Shane said, late career renaissance in a very substantive and meaningful way, about as good a retirement as you could possibly ask for. And he stopped the landing almost. The addendum after it was real weird to like, because he nailed that post-fight speech to a degree that I was like, oh, he knew he was going to lose this fight because this few. feels like he practiced all these things he's about to be saying, which you wouldn't practice that if he wins

because then he's going to try and get the Leon fight. The addendum aside afterwards, which was like your mileage is going to vary depending on your political views. He nailed it. So happy trails. We're going to do a damn on you fairly soon, Jorge. Happy trails indeed.

And we'll see what happens with Gilbert Burns. We'll see if he is the backup. I do want to take a few questions from the people. but before we do that, uh, main card delivered some other cool moments for sure. This card delivered a some very cool moments. Shaheen.

So outside of the, the main storylines of the top two fights, who is the, the low key MVP of UFC 287? Who stole the show for you outside of the, the major storylines? I just, I just have to really quickly say,

wouldn't we do that damn they were good episode. I'm very excited for the 15 minute Toby Amata tangent. Uh, and maybe like four people watching this right now, know what I'm talking about. if you know what I'm talking about, you know what I'm talking about. That's going to be really funny. I already, while you were talking, I was just like, let me go remember some Horat Mops at

all stuff. And when you said the Bellator one thing, because I knew it, man, like I remember so many of these, even the pre-UFC stuff like the Cincoku run, this is going to be. What a Bodon. It's going to be incredibly, he fought in Strike Force of the Playboy Mansion. It's going to be the best. Well traveled. I'm very excited for this.

The man was well traveled and also on the receiving end of the wildest submission in M.M.A. history. He lost a Hafele of Sunsouth. Phantom White Hafele Suns South. It moves. His career's insane. He lost to Luis Palomino, too. Yeah, just a whole. He lost to everybody.

This is a whole separate podcast. Yes. Stay tuned for damn they were good down the line. But Shaheen, Loki MVP. Black Friday is here at IKEA, and the clock is ticking on savings you won't want to miss. Join IKEA family for free today and unlock deals on everything from holiday must-haves

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and hit play on your next adventure. This fall get double points on every qualified stay. Life's the trip. Make the most of it at Best Western. Visit bestwestern.com for complete terms and conditions. It's got to be Rob Font. It has to be Rob Font. When we put together, which is not something we put together,

but when we put together at the end of the year, y'all must have forgot Roy Jones Jr. All-Star team, like Rob Fonts on the starting line. of that team because no one was counting him in for this fight. Like he was almost being treated as just like it was a formality that he was going to show up and then just sort of like, ah, you know, here, I'll lay out the red carpet. You can go ahead and walk down this Adrian Yonnas, like on your way to the title. Like that was just the way that this fight was being spoken about, broken down.

I don't know that I saw anybody in the world pick Rob Funt. I know. I certainly didn't. I don't think either a YouTube gentleman did. I did. Well, okay. The new, the new. Hmm.

Okay. It's New England. He's like, come on, he's got to rep his boys. I'll explain why in a moment. I had nothing to do with New England. I don't believe that. I don't believe that. No, I didn't.

I was pointing to him. Okay. I was going to say, you're not better than me. How dare you? I'm for sure, didn't. I definitely think of Juni Annas. No, yeah. New Anglers got to represent the New England cartel.

But everyone else in the world seemed like this was just, angry Yanaz's his coronation in waiting, right? And the way he went out there and just reminded fools, like, That was brutal, man. That was a brutal, brutal finish. And I'm still confident that Adrian Yannis is going to be someone who matters at 135 before this story is done. He's still very young.

I think he's like 29 years old. And his boxing and just the way his UFC run has gone so far. Like I would put a lot of money on the idea that he will be in that title mix at some point in his career. You know, sometimes the first shot to take that leap doesn't work out for everybody. But Rob Fontman, like this is someone who at this point, like his resume is very, very sneakily underrated. I think the Cheeto Vera fight in particular that threw us off the scent with him quite a quite a bit right like you look at sort of what he's done over the last five six years I think he's really only lost to one current person who is still active in this division over that time and that's Cheeto Vera and you know you want to say you know hey you lost to Josealdo like okay cool a lot of people lose to Josealdo like Josalto could have won the damn title right before you retire like that's not something to be ashamed of so Rob Fontman I didn't

didn't believe i think a lot of people didn't believe kudos to you man that you he he absolutely showed out did it did the damn thing and i would love to see him now sort of get reinserted in that title picture whether that's a piotr yon fight next whether that's he wants devisan figurado to welcome him to bantamway i like that as well i think either those fights make a lot of sense that's way he way too small he too small can't do that's that's why it's a smart call-out i love the yon pick i love the on idea that's spoiler that's no i'm going with with onto the next one i would like the reason i picked font um was not the new england bias because i've picked against calvin cater in the past and i have picked against rob fond in the

past it's not that i don't i wouldn't pick against the new englanders i just the whole what you mentioned the resume and the level of competition it's just night and day when you go from jos aaldo to raldo to and Vera and then to Adrian Yanez, I just felt like Rob has just fought way better competition. I mean, it wasn't even close. Like, Davy Grant was, David Grant for sure, like, tough out for anybody. And Davy, like, took Yonnas to the limit in that fight. And I would pick Rob Funt pretty confidently to beat Davey Grant in a fight. But that was the whole thing for me.

Like, I was happy to be proven wrong if Adrian was up for it. And I think he certainly was. I just think Rob was just on fire tonight, and Rob was beating a lot of guys at 135, but I just, the experience matters, man. Experience and level of competition matters. And that's, and that was the biggest thing for me.

Like, I thought this is a 50, 50 fight, and I just thought the level of competition, the guys who Rob has been in there with, he hung with Jose Aldo. He proved he belonged with Joseo Alto. Yeah,

he got dropped a couple times. He did very well against Marlon Vera outside of getting dropped. Like, just look at the numbers statistically from that fight. Like, hang with all these guys. I just hadn't seen Yonnas be able to hang with any of these guys. His best win was

the Tony Kelly win, which is a great win and it got him to where he was and I'm with you, Shaheen. I think this is a guy next couple of years. He'll be a top five Bannamweight. This is a step up that needed to happen. I love the matchmaking, but in the end, with a fight that

close, I have to go with the guy that just has fought the murderer's row against the other guy until I see him prove me wrong. And I just I didn't see that. And what a performance. What a fight. Yannas looked good too until you got dropped.

It was, again, it was a hell of a performance. And something you just said right there is exactly my biggest takeaway, just generally from the whole night, which is you said experience matters. I'm writing this in my column right now, my post-fied column that goes out on Sunday. But a couple years ago, I did a really silly, stupid story at my old workplace of like. Not a great website. Not a great website. not nearly the website that this website. Not a great one.

But it was like an oral history of like the UFC, like old school fans will know what I'm talking about, but like the UFC used to do like these stupid little subheads on their paper views where it would be like UFC 72 victory, which like what does that mean? That's very that that's so idiotic. Or like UFC 78 knockout, which had no knockouts on it at all. Like all of these things were so stupid. The war for 04, full force, high voltage. Like none of these.

mean anything. And like if you take I miss them. I miss them. I love them. They were so dumb. I love that era so much. But like if you were to channel that sort of vibe for tonight, that would be what tonight was, right? Which is UFC 2787 experience matters. Because we just saw that up and down throughout the card with the exception of Joe Fiverr like for the most part, all of these matchups played out in that exact way of just yeah, experience matters. And I know we get up on the next big thing on the new hotness on whatever the next, uppcomer or whoever's looking good at the time is. But that's a good thing to remember.

Experience matters, man. It really does. I like that. I just love that you had to catch yourself. Experience matters, unless you're 51 fight better in jailed mere chart. Sucks to be you than bro. Yo.

Joe Fyfer might be for real, though. I like that guy a lot, man. Hey, he's fun. And especially coming in beefy, all juicy like he was today. he called himself juicy i didn't call him uh yes man if you get that dude on a waylifting regimen that apparently he's on right now like i don't know man middle way it's interesting middleweight the next seven generation and middleweight's coming and he's one of those guys

yeah GM3 was done so as soon as he hit the mat he got clipped and he was done and he was I don't know what the referee was thinking like he's basically telling him like the other thing he could he could have just sent the referee a test was he waiting for a text message saying i'm done stop the fight you know what that was that stoppage was brutal. Piper stood back and like just let Mershart sit there like this for like what seemed like five seconds and he's just like continue. He basically tapped without tapping. So yeah, Piper looked good. Font looked great. Jed, take away we didn't we didn't discuss before we take some questions from the Peebs. Take away we didn't discuss. That's a good one. I mean, we can just cap on to the experience matters part because we should probably.

at least address this, right? 18-year-old Rauroa Roses Jr. took an L. And that was like the third biggest story coming into this card was Rauroa Roses Jr. And being the... Mike, on the pre-fight Q&A, we got the question. Is Rau Roses Jr. guaranteed to be the youngest UFC champion of all time? And I dismissed it as ludicrous. And 12 hours later, or whatever it is, feel really good about dismissing as ludicrous.

I'm not here to dance on our Roosters Jr's grave. He's 18. Like, you're just going to have mistakes. Hopefully he will come back and learn from it. But, like, this is the reason you don't get too hyped on super young kids. We've almost never seen them work out historically because they get so much so soon. It had, like, look at where Sage Northcutt is right now. Who was signed when he was 20 or whatever?

I was like, this guy is the future. I'm never a fan of it because I want them to develop properly, and that's just not a thing that's going to happen at the UPC. We'll see where all Roses Jr. goes from here. He's got talent very clearly, but the experience clearly lost him that fight, and so hopefully we can maybe take a step back with him and be much more reasonable about all projections for, again,

a literal child who is in the cage fighting grown men. honestly at this point we might as well just start calling the the curse of john jones right like everybody who comes into the ufc saying i'm going to be the youngest ufc champion of all time i'm going to beat john jones's record does not work out well for them like almost immediately it does not work out well for them that just shows you a there's only one john jones right like that what that dude did was very special and it it just continues to look even more special as the years go on and more people fail spectacularly and trying to do it but also be this was something that like when we we said this in the moment when ral rossus was getting signed

which is you know like this is a fun story and this is this is cool 17 18 year old sort of getting this opportunity but i don't know that the success rate on this is like i don't know that this is something that i want to see the ufc be doing at at this kind of clip right because this is micky gall this is how like how many you just said stage northcut like how many people can we name who were thrown in there too soon and then the problem is it's cool to be on the big stage and It's cool to have your name and lights. But once you're there, you're there, man. You can't go backwards.

Like, there's not super easy fights in the UFC. There's not regional level fights, which this kid probably very much needs to continue to get better and continue to improve and go through whatever the normal paces of a career is. You just don't get that. Like, Christian Rodriguez is not the level of fighter that Ralph Roses should be fighting right now. And he's only going to be up against guys like Christian Rodriguez, right? Like how many steps backwards in the UFC are there from where he is right now with this type of opponent? Like, I don't know, man.

It's a tough spot. And it always kind of makes me uncomfortable when we're in these spots where an actual child is sort of being put in a position to fight grown men like this. It's, I, his was always the worst one to me as well because like at least with other some of the other ones, they were more explicable in some ways. You could squint your eyes and be like, well, he's 20 and he does. He's been kickboxing since he was 14 or doing something else. Robert Roesler Jr. made his inmate debut last year or whatever. Like he just had like eight fights in Tijuana. And then it was like, all right, you're in the O'SC.

Like there. That's not, that's not all the way true. That's not all the way true. He's been fighting. He's had a lot of fights. Like before he, oh yeah, before he had like official amateur bouts.

He had a lot of fights. Like fighting grown dudes in Mexico as like a 14 year old kid. Like, he's got fights. He's been... For a whole different reasons. Yeah, he's been training for a long time. But, again, like, the moniker of this card, experience matters. This was by far the biggest level of competition he's fought.

And that's like, if you watch, that's a winnable fight for him. He could be Christian Rodriguez. I mean, he almost did. It almost did. But he fought like an 18-year-old kid who thinks he's invincible and has not really faced adversity. And he came out and was like, I'm going to run over this dude. And they didn't, and then things went real bad, real fast. And it's just like he could learn that less in places that aren't on the UFC stage,

and that would probably be better for him. But here we are, and we'll see what happens. And it's like I know there has to be a function within the UFC of having someone like this on the roster, you know, in a developmental contract. I know they do that. And I know everyone in the organization was very high on him. And, you know, there's reason to. I'm certainly not crapping on him.

Like, he almost won that fight. And, you know, he could have won that fight. you run it back 10 times, maybe he wins five. Like, it's not, it's not a bad thing for him to lose a fight at this stage in his career. And I'm certainly not, it's not an indictment on who he can become. He's so far away from who he can become. It's just, again, once you get to this stage, that's the only type of fight you're going to be getting. Like, it's not, there's not massive steps backwards to be able to learn with Chase Hooper,

another name. Like, there's just so many examples of this not working that you don't want to see someone like to skip ruined. early because it's just like, hey, you're consistently having a fight these murderers row of dudes that you were just not at that level yet. Yeah. Hopefully it learns from it and we'll see what happens. So, all right.

We'll take a few questions, get them in, and we will answer said questions. So let's do it. I saw a couple earlier, but this thing just tracks really, really quickly. Someone asked earlier, I remember the question stood out, so I'm just going to ask. Jehine was Kelvin Gassum's performance. Would you consider that a career resurgence? I would consider it a career-saving performance, certainly, right? Like, if he, that man had, you saw it in his post-fight interview.

Like, I said earlier for the main event, like, this is why you watch, right? Like, this is why the sport is so great and this is why we love it so much. I would say the same thing about Kelvin's post-fight speech. Like, like, the amount of emotion that that man had bottled up inside of him, him after what really was just had it had to in his own body going through it going through the paces of it this five-year spiral that he has seemingly been on where nothing goes right and he can't win a fight and he a lot of these fights are just bad fights and he's getting injured and you know he hadn't fought since 2021 until tonight it's just a lot of just bad unlucky things continually

happening to a guy who was really at the precipice right like he pushed jed you and i were at that fight in Atlanta. He pushed Izzy so damn hard at that fight in Atlanta. And that night, it felt inevitable that Calvin would be back in that title picture. Like it was, it would have been a joke to say otherwise. And then to sort of land where we landed tonight, where he's literally fighting for his career. Because if he loses tonight and say Chris Curtis knocks him out or just wins a fairly one-sided decision, Calvin Gaslim's shopping his services on Monday probably, right? Like he's out there trying to maybe go to the PFL or Bellator or wherever else he can go like i don't he and he seemed to understand that too like in his post fight interview and

also speaking to the media afterwards like that's an incredible amount of pressure and that's kind of pressure that i think a lot of us will never understand or just can't understand like so for him to be able to come in here and i wouldn't say that was vintage kelvin that kind of looked like kelvin 2.0 in a way where he was very fluid in there he looked very confident uh and it was a really entertaining fight like i like that's not going to win fight of the year but it'll probably get an honorable mention from somebody when we're doing our year-end awards column. So, man, like, good on you, Kelvin. Like, it was imperative for him over anybody else tonight to win, and he did it.

And it was a very fun showing, and I think it's one that you'd be happy to go back and rewatch. So, you know, I'm all for it. Now, Kelvin, being back in this middleweight picture to some degree, make the Naserdinimabov fight that seemingly can't be made or something of that nature. Like, just thrown back into it now and then see if this is a real thing, if he has sort of refound his momentum and we can restart it. Because also, what is he like 31? 29?

Like he's very young still. 31. Yeah, like this is someone who should be at his prime years, which is why it was almost so agonizing to watch that just very slow, grindy, steady downward spiral that he seemed to just be trapped on. So, you know, I'm happy for him just as a human being to emerge from that. Because again, we saw it in the post-fight interview, that amount of emotion just spilling out of him.

I was like a champagne cork that hadn't been popped in five years, but it was just five years consistently if someone's shaking it up constantly every day. So, you know, you love to see those type of moments. On the flip side, Jed, should Chris Curtis go back to his usual weight class at 170? Look, he's done pretty well at 185. It's won a lot of fights. But when he gets to the, I mean, when he gets to the operational out of the division, the rank guys, he hasn't got wins.

And it's not like he looked bad tonight. He looked, it was a fun-ass-fight. He was very competitive with Kelvin Gaslam. But do you feel like his service, he'd be better served at 170? No. It's a better division. You shouldn't go fight in the better division if you can fight in the worst division. And I don't think anyone's arguing that Chris Curtis lost because he was too small.

Like he just lost, he lost a good fight, a fight that he could win if they ran that back. A fight that argue, like some people probably. gave him that fight and it's not entirely unreasonable. If that's a five-round fight, he was having a pretty good third for a lot of it too. Like, I just, no, it's just a loss. Like, changing weight division doesn't save your career. Sometimes they're just ceilings on what you can be.

And Chris Curtis isn't going to be a top five fighter in any weight class, but he's a good one, he's competitive. He's middleweight Jorge Mastrol in a lot of ways. Like, just dude has been around for a while, doing the thing, can do a lot of good things. Sometimes he's going to lose some fights. Sometimes he's going to win them. But they're mostly going to be fun. And that's where he is.

I think he should definitely stay at middle weight because it's a worst division. And that's way better than fighting Shafka Rahman. And that ilk of people. Like if my choice is I get to fight the Jack Kermansans of the world or I have to fight Kamar Ustman, I know which one I'm going to go with. But that's just me. maybe you think that's better. I don't know.

That seems dumb. Hey, look, you sold me. What do you think about Izzy pointing out Alex's son to mock him feel like it would be a bigger story

of someone like Colby did that? So I know you didn't watch the presser, Jed, but I'll preface this by saying that Izzy was asked about this. Yeah, he was asked about it at the presser. And basically said, yeah,

I did it, but we talked backstage, like we're cool now. So, I mean, I don't know. What did you think about it? Shaheen.

It's the fight game. I can't get too upset about it. You know? Yeah. Like what? Like I, some people are going to be upset about it, but those people probably would have been upset about something else anyway. Like, I don't know.

It's the fight game. Things happen. Apparently, Alex's son mocked Izzy in his moment of unconsciousness. So Izzy sort of reciprocated it, you know, what goes around, comes around. It's ultimately it's the fight game. I can't get too mad at things like this. I think it's pretty shady. It's pretty shady, man.

It's petty. It's just petty is what it is, but it's whatever. Petty is fine. No, there's a difference because I'm for petty. Like the picture of him doing the bow and arrow, like that's fucking cold shit and that's sick. I'm a petty man and I, if somebody's talking shit, you deserve and you do the thing, do your dance. Like that has been a tenet of my life forever. I'm down with it.

You're talking shit to a kid who was like six at the time he talked shit to you. I get hold in the grudge. There is a substantive difference between come. Like, if that was his older brother, like Pereira's brother or just a grown-ass adult and not a child, okay, doing it to a kid, they look, we don't need to get super up in arms about it or burn the village down. But it's objectively pretty shitty to be like, I'm going to, now I'm coming at your kid because your child. I will also say kind of shitty for his kid to make fun of him or whatever. but he's also six.

So six-year-olds. Do we actually know how old this kid is? Because I don't actually know how he was very small when he did the same thing as he did because it was in the kickboxing fight. But you just look at him and he's very small at the time. So he was clearly not of like an adult age at the time he did it. And so it's just like it's petty and it's petty in a shitty way. But again, it's not like we don't need to make this some sort of awful.

thing. It's just like, yeah, that was pretty shitty. It'd be cool if you didn't do shitty things. But if, you know, do it to, I don't do it to his, his corner, fine. That's sick. The, the bow and arrow thing's sick. Talk your shit. You deserve that one. Just maybe leave the kids out of it. Because I feel like we've done this time and again in all different things. It's like, yeah, just don't attack people's children because why would you do that? Bowen arrow was cold. The bone arrow was ice cold. That's one of the best photos in MMA history. That is a really good...

Just everything that goes into that moment. That's why I'm saying, like, I don't... To dial it back to the beginning, I don't understand why people wouldn't want to see the final chapter of this. Like, this is so intriguing to me. Well, this has been an intriguing fight week, hasn't it? We've had a good time. I feel like people were kind of on one all week.

Our chats were very feisty at times, which I appreciate. and we will have more follow from UFC 287 tomorrow onto the next one, AKA, and I will record that. I don't think we're going to do a video one just because of all the craziness that happens and the places that I do them. So I think we're just going to record something throw it on the pod network and do it that way.

And so you guys will get your show and we'll get to read a lot of the listener picks that you guys love anyways because we get so many of them. I got a phone full of DMs already that we wouldn't read on the live show. So, and then, and may I are back on Monday and we'll just get ready for UFC Kansas City and that's where Jed is right now.

Right? You're in Casey? I'm not in Casey. I'm in Savannah. I go to Casey next week. Next week. You're in Savannah. Oh.

Yeah. I came home to visit the folks for the holidays. How long are you in Savannah for? I leave on Monday. Well, well, I'll be sleeping. So I won't see you that. Yes. All right.

So there'll be no golf for Mike and Jed. But all right. Well, thank you very much. Appreciate you guys hopping on. And also look up for Shaheen's. Mike, would you say that when you're in bed, you'll be frozen like Elsa? We can bring that line back. He did.

I think if you're such a bang in the first time. Well, that's the thing. You know, if we say it 35 times, eventually it's going to get there. It's going to get there. Real quick, before we close out, because I know it's very late and everyone's trying to close out, can we just salute the star of the week that we have not saluted yet? and that is, of course, that gorgeous mane on the man to my left. And I just am curious as we get out of here, have the past 48 hours, because you told us in

confidence, you know, hey, I'm probably going to shave this. And then we're like, well, you should just let's see what you're working with. And then this has happened now. Have the past 48 hours changed your opinion and your idea to shave what is now, I don't know, the second biggest story of UFC 287? It's probably coming off into the very near future anyway. I am happy that Horace had all lost, but I said on the two-fite Q&A that if you'd want,

I would get it at Corn Road. And I really didn't want to do that. Yay, for happy outcomes. I mean, just amazing revelation. People loved it. People wanted to hear you say, I can't believe it's not butter, which I thought that was a great line.

I can't believe it's not butter. And the show is just not going to get any better than that. I don't want to do the Fabio action. I don't think I can do it. So we'll just leave it there. Yeah, I think the attempt is worth all the money right there. So for Shaheen, for Jed, I am Mycac gets onwards to UFC, Kansas City, Max Holloway versus Arnold Allen, coming up in about six days. So we'll see you then.

We'll see you tomorrow for on to the next one. Hope you guys enjoy the fights. Have a good night, everybody. To the Vox Media Podcast Network.