MMA Fighting - UFC 295 Post-Fight Show | Reaction To Alex Pereira, Tom Aspinall's Title Winning Finishes

Episode Date: November 12, 2023

UFC 295 will go down as one of the wildest UFC events of 2023 with a main card full of finishes — including championship victories for Alex Pereira and Tom Aspinall in the final two bouts, although the main event seemed to have ended with a bit of controversy. MMA Fighting's Mike Heck, Shaun Al-Shatti, and Jed Meshew react to Pereira's historic light heavyweight championship knockout victory over Jiri Prochazka in the main event, whether or not referee Marc Goddard made the correct call in stopping the fight, Pereira's callout of Israel Adesanya, and where Prochazka goes from here. Additionally, they discuss Aspinall's quick knockout win over Sergei Pavlovich to win the interim heavyweight title in the co-main event, who Aspinall could face next, Jessica Andrade, Benoit Saint-Denis, and Diego Lopes' main card finishes, and much more following a chaotic trip to Madison Square Garden.  Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Shaun Al-Shatti: @ShaunAlShatti Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprise his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love?

The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian

in this follow-up to the audible original blockbuster, the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, ghosts in the machine, available now, only from Audible.

We're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. The victory horns following UFC 295, and they sound for the two new champions, Alex Pereira, the new light heavyweight champion, and Tommy Aspinall. the new interim heavyweight champion, both getting finishes in the main and co-main event, respectively, to cap off just a wild-ass night at Madison Square Garden. Welcome to the UFC 295 post-fight show.

I am Mike Heck still here in New York City, joined by two of my favorites. We have the Wise Wordsmith, who was on the watch party with us for the main event, the great Sean Alshaddy, deputy editor from M.M.A.fighting.com. What a night. And what a night, man. What a friggin' night. And the men's whose voice you've been hearing for the last little while during the never-ending post-fight press conference, Mr. Jedbyshu, Mr. Hot Take himself. Hello, Jed.

Hey, guys. What a night of fights. You guys, one, I have bones to pick with several of you from the preview show, which I listened and then reached out to A.K. After all, it was like everyone was on one. I don't know what y'all were talking about. but you did accurately establish this. This was one for us, and it delivered. It's absolutely delivered.

The two Mushuland stars feel very justified right now. Yes, this is one of those cards where, yeah, this is a hardcore fan's delight. Those who bought it were satisfied, and those who didn't, it probably pissed that they didn't buy it. But at the end of the day, we watched, and we're thrilled about it. So before we get into the major storylines, I know we're prisoners of the moment, gentlemen.

I know how this works. This is a very recency biased sport. 2023 has been a chaotic year, Shaheen Al Shadi. We've had some weird things happen. We've had some memorable events. UFC 295. If this was an award for the best card of the year, is this number one?

Is this number one? It's at least in the conversation, is it not? I want to answer your question, but also Jeds make it an incredible face. right now that I need to know what's going on. This is the sad. I just realized something. We went over.

I could have won our pre our, at the beginning of the year, we do the three, pick three new champions. If, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, he gets bonked. And now, and we, we, we, we missed entirely. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh.

Right now. Now, right. And instead of beating you, I just tie you. which is so disappointing to me. Oh, boy. Nobody in the audience knows what we're talking about, but this is the first year in like five years that nobody has gotten one right.

That's tremendous. That's tremendous. That is very emblematic of the question you asked me, Mike Heck. You asked me, is this the craziest year? No, you didn't ask me that. You asked, is this the best card of the year? Maybe like the funnest card, certainly, right? Like, I think they're, I'm trying to remember back.

It's hard when you do these sort of in the moment things. I remember there being a really, really fun card in the summer where it was mostly finishes. Was that the Porier card? The Porier-Gay-Chi card? Yeah, that was good, too. That was really good, too. I don't know. It's too hard for me to say right now that this was the best card of 2023.

It was certainly a very, very fun time and incredibly violent night with a lot of results that I think we're going to be talking about for quite a while. on that we'll some of which we'll probably look back on years from now and just be like wow that was the start of something Jed we had five finishes in the main card we had a fight of the year contender at 155 we had a super fun flyweight fight we had some big finishes on the prelims this card was awesome but how awesome was it compared to the others of 23. So Casey and I were talking about this a little on the presser. I think if the, we kind of came sort of, we agreed on, the main event and how it ended, I don't, we don't, I don't, not too upset by it, but it also wasn't like the really

satisfying ending that you like want with a bullet. And so it detracts a little bit from the rest of the card. And the main event is so important to how cards are perceived after the fact. You could have a great card, and if the main event is a snoozer, it kind of ruins everything, or a good main event can elevate an otherwise pretty forgettable card. And this one with that, I think, means instead of this being no doubt about it, this was the best card of the year, now it's going to be a conversation because we can't be too much prisoners of the moment. Like, 291, which was the Gaichi-4-E1, that also had Derek Lewis's flying knee,

that had, I think that was Tony Ferguson, Bobby Green and that choke and that good fight. Like that was also a great card. 290, as you mentioned, you know, that's the Volcro G. You guys, like, that card had a bunch of good things. There are other very good cards. I think nothing stands head and shoulders above. This is in the conversation, though. If we do an event of the year at the end of the year award, this is absolutely going to be there.

And I think if Pereira gets a more ironclad finish at the top, I think this probably is the leader in the clubhouse right now. And it still may be, honestly, because when you get a main card that combined, the fights lasted like 10 total minutes, there are three absolutely insane knockouts to chant into like new champions, a fight of the year on the undercard, plus a bunch of other awesome stuff happening. Like this may still be leader in the clubhouse,

but I do want to kind of caution against being too prisoner of the moment right now. Yeah, 285 is really good. 287 was really good. 290 was really, really good. And then this is right up there as well. Yeah, 291 is a good one. I mean, there's lots to talk about here. And that leads me to some next question, Shaheen, because Jed brought it up.

You were on for the watch party when Alex Pereira did the damn thing, became a two-division champion in just his seventh. UFC fight, his 11th pro-MMA fight. The dude has broken the rankings. He's broken the entire system as we know it. But as Jed mentioned, perhaps a little bit of controversy. Broadcasters thought the stoppage might have been early. A lot of people thought the stoppage might have been early.

But the one man who didn't think it was early was the man who was stopped. Yuri Pahashka basically said, no, man, I was done, but I'm an absolute psychopath and I'm never going to stop fighting even if I'm out. Classic Yuri answer. now that the dust is set a little bit of a couple of hours have passed Yuri said what you had to say do you feel any differently about it? Do you feel like the stoppage is a little questionable? Do you feel like this is mired in some sort of

controversy or ultimately are you okay with it? Well I mean ultimately I'm okay with it right like on the watch party with you guys in the moment I mean pretty much as soon as it happened I sort of called out like I don't know about that stoppage that felt a tad early for me, especially for a guy like Yeri who, you know, Yuri's durable as hell. But the thing is, we get to see his durability tested often, right? Like, that guy gets kind of flash-caoed very, very often and seems to come back from it pretty

quickly. Kind of seemed like that was happening again. But ultimately, if I'm one of those guys, if I shy towards the fighter, and if Yuri is out here, incredibly classy by him, by the way, if he's out here saying, no, I was out. He was a good stop bitch. Then I'm not going to quibble with him. Ultimately, to me, if anyone is trying to make that the story of tonight, that this was some controversial stoppage and that's the biggest takeaway, like I think you're just looking at this whole thing wrong because I'm still sitting here. Like I've been sitting here for the last hour or two putting together my post-fight column for this event.

Just trying to almost contextualize and make it make sense really of what Alex Pereira has done over the last couple years, what he did tonight, just generally, this body of work that we have now watched this man do. and it is it's just fucking crazy man like there you could you could wax poetic

all you want but like this is just unreal on a level that we just like kind of don't ever see right like we were in this exact same space four months ago when I said that Alex Pereira

is speed running his way to a Hall of Fame UFC career and what do you know the dude did it like that is now what happened He is a Hall of Famer tonight. If his career ended tonight, he would go into the UFC Hall of Fame first ballot as a two-division champion. Like that in and of itself is incredible.

But then you just sort of look down the list. Like, right? Like there is so many just different weird stats, things that you could throw out that makes this just one of the strangest things I've ever seen. Right. Because this is a guy who seven UFC fights to his name. He kicked off this second act well into his mid-30s. And at that point, he was already a glory hall of famer, right? Like he is in the Glory Hall of Fame, decade-long kickboxing career.

And now he's what? One of eight, I think, two division champions in the 30 years the UFC's done this. He's headline like all these weird MSG. Nine, nine, there you go. All these weird MSG stats where he's headline like two of the top three gates ever at Madison Square Garden. He's the only MMA fighter to be undefeated three and oh in basically the world's most famous arena.

And then it's just like you compare him to the other two division champs, right? Like none of them have accomplished this at nearly the same pace and rate that this guy has. Like, the only two who were even close were Randy Couture, who did it in nine fights, and B.J. Penn, who did it in 11 fights. And you look at those names, like, that's such a different era. That is such a different area of being doing that. That is an era where rankings didn't exist and divisions were kind of treated a lot more Lucy Goosey than they are today. None of this makes any sense. I mean, you look at Alex Pereira's whole entire MMA career, not even the UFC run, right? Whole entire MMA career. He has nearly as many fights against UFC champions,

five, as he does his whole career against nonchamps. And that's including the regional scene. Six. Like this is all just absurd. He's racking up wins in just in names on this resume in ways that don't even make sense. And then the easy factor of all this too, right? Whereas just these two are so inextricably linked forever. And seemingly everything that Israel-Assania wanted to do, wanted to accomplish with his UFC career,

Alex Pere has now kind of done it, right? Double champ, done it. beat Jan Bukovitz up with up a division done it brutally knockout Sean Strickland done it and of course he's up on the series two three out of four and that series well all of this is just unbelievable it's I've not really seen anything ever like this and ultimately it's a singular thing right like we are looking at a career that is a one of one we are looking at a career that will not be matched just in terms of the the sheer feats that we're talking about here it's it's it's incredible man it's incredible and like it's incredible too because it's this thing where you can

caveat it. There can be so many caveats if you want to throw that out. Josh Barnett was just on my on me on my ass on Twitter already like talking about, ah, he's just fight kickboxers. He hasn't fought a real MMA fight. I'm like, sure, this run has been weird and manicured and a lot of these stylistic matchups has been very advantageous to us. But also, again, he's fighting champions. He's beating the champions. He's beating the guys who matter. It's just crazy, man. It's absolutely crazy. What do you think about this, Jed? Because, you know, as a guy who stands, behind, hey, it's more impressive to stay in one division and just run off a bunch of title defenses.

Like, that's more impressive than being a two division champion now. There's far, there's more, basically more two division champions in the history of the UFC than fighters who have their title multiple times. Yeah, it's a lot at this point. But what Alex Pereira has done here, where do you put this? Like, how do you digest this all? Especially the way that you feel about two division champions. It's not that you're taking away from it.

It's somehow lost its luster in a lot of respects. But Alex Pereira is just it's just unheard of and unbelievable in so many ways. It is. And so I want to walk what's going to be a pretty fine line here because it's not to say that this isn't an accomplishment. This is obviously a tremendous accomplishment. If you're doing something that only eight other people in history have done, you're on a pretty good path, right? Like, that's not a lot of company in that particular room. So, and that, like, I think some 34 odd people have attempted to do it, right?

So, like, there have been people in this position who have won a belt and fighting for another one. And the list is enormous. Frankie Edgar, you know, was a terrific fighter and failed to do that. Max Holloway failed to pull this off. He has now done something that many people have failed to do. That is worthy of, like, that's very meritorious. It's an incredible accomplishment. and sort of the way

Shaheen was talking about this is right. It defies our understanding of how the sport works in a lot of ways in a way that is compelling and interesting. But at the same time, I love Alex Pereira now because Alex Pereira is going to be exhibit one in my argument of, hey, you know, I'm always like you should just defend your belt

because it's really more impressive. This is why. Because it would be disingenuous to say Alex Pereira is the example of, you know, being the best fighter in the world. He got pretty favorable matchmaking, and he won the fights. If they give you the Alleyoop, you got to ram the thing home, and he did it. But he got sped run into a middleweight title fight against a guy he had a pre-bake storyline with,

won that fight, and then moves up and got fast-tracked again. And he is doing the things that are asked of him. You can only fight the guys put in front of you. But we don't also have to bear ahead and stand and be like, his middleweight title shot is the same as Jekis 2 plus E's middleweight title shot, who had to be like eight dudes or whatever. They're not the same. And that's how this game works.

Not all title fights. Not all title shots are created equal. Some people have to earn it more for one reason or another. He has hacked the game in a way that's incredibly beneficial for him. And he is still delivered when he needed to. And that rules. but I do think that after this kind of initial, holy shit, like, I don't even know how to react to this, right? Like, who did this faster than anybody in history?

Like, no one's ever going to do this again. What does this mean? I think when the dust settles, everyone's going to be like, okay, what this means is it's still really impressive, but maybe this is more indicative of what double champ status means. Because in the end, what double champ status has certainly become, maybe it wasn't always this way, but it is definitely this way, basically since Connor, it's, it is converting on an opportunity that not everybody gets, right? Like, not everybody has the opportunity to do it because other people could have done this. Barreira to his credit, did it, and we should celebrate the hell out of it because, like, there are a lot of dudes who don't beat your Perashka tonight, but it's, he's just

going to be this super weird anomaly, and it's awesome. I love things like that in sport. And that's the thing. That's the thing that I still am like sitting here struggling. with as we're trying to contextualize this. Because like Alex Pereira's whole entire existence sort of defies the logic that we seemingly work within this sport, right? Like it defies the history that we

work within within this sport. No, well, maybe not even even clear logic. No, no, well maybe it doesn't defy it then. It redefines it. It redefines it in a way that is clearer to see than we have really ever seen somebody pull off, right? Because you're right.

He is getting, like the middleweight run was fairly manicured for the most part, although it looks a lot better now that he beat the current middleweight champion and sent that dude to the land of wins and ghosts. That looks a lot better now. That aged pretty well. But also, this light heavy weight run, again, a lot of opportunity involved in this, right? Like this was a weird messed up division. He sort of entered it at the right time, right place.

And he pulled it off. But that's the thing. He's pulling it off. Like, ultimately, you can't take away. from it because like is he got this opportunity is he did not convert on it. Alexander Volcanowski got this opportunity twice he did not convert on it. Ultimately one of the Alex Pereira is the guy who is converting on these opportunities and it's crazy.

It's really crazy, man. For this person to have started this so late in his life in his athletic life and be able to be pulling this off at the speed with which he's done where he's been in the UFC for like two years, two and a half years. and we're talking about like this, again, it defies convention and it really does sort of redefine the rules in a way that is so overt and just like, wow, like,

you did it, dude. You really did it. Like, you broke this game. You fundamentally broke this game and then put it back together in a way that you wanted it to be. And it worked out for you. It's incredible, man. It's incredibly.

I am not going to take anything away from it. But here's the convention, right, Shaheen, because you actually touched on this. The convention is just, I'm just going to take everything Israel, Sonia ever worked for. This is the greatest gimmick in Congress. Everything.

Everything. Oh, you couldn't beat Jan Belovich? I got him. Oh, you couldn't win a heavyweight belt? I got him. We need to get this dude matched up against Philip Verlinton in kickboxing because that's, as far as I can tell,

that's the only dude that is he ever lost to, the prayer hasn't been. Just have him fight that dude to just do his whole career and be like, got you, homie. It's the best. It really is incredible. So what was interesting about all of this,

Chaheen, is that Alex Pereira wins the belt. You got Jamal Hill traveling to MSG, has had a pretty crazy weekend in a lot of ways, in the crowd, probably expecting to maybe get in the cage and maybe go face-to-face with Alex Pereira. And what does Pereira do? Calls out his old buddy Israel, Adasania. Were you surprised by that?

No. Of course I wasn't surprised by this. I have been saying this was going to happen for like the last six months. Like this was, these two, they're the way these, the relationship between these two, like it is bordering mystical with like the forces that are that are at work seemingly constantly to bring these guys together, right? Like we just went down the list of everything Alex is doing is just basically an insane troll job on Izzy. But like that, we, I said it when they had their second fight in the UFC.

and Izzy won, that this is not settled. Nothing about this feels settled. Maybe it feels settled to Izzy because he finally got the one, and he's able to now post this meme over and over and over and over and over again. And maybe that's where this will end is that, because it certainly seems like he does not want to do this over again. And I can't really blame him, if I'm being honest, right? Like it's not a fight that I would be eager for as well if I'm Izzy.

But it does feel like we are pummeling towards just some return of the Jedi type of epic conclusion to whatever this is, whether it's the UFC having a pony up money to convince he to do it or whatever. I love the call by Alex Pereira. That is what you should do if you're Alex Perey in that spot. Because here's the thing. Like the Jamal Hill matchup, that's cool. That's fine.

I understand wanting to give it to Jamal Hill. I understand him earning it and deserving it, right? Jamal Hill tore Zah Achilles, dude. Like, that's not a quick injury. That's not an injury that's going to be back anytime soon. Like, that is a long, painful rehabilitation. That is a bad, bad injury. And if I'm Alex Pereira, I'm 36 years old, I'm not waiting until I'm 37 to get back in the cage.

Like I'm not just sitting out whatever this big earning window of my career really is. Like whatever these last few years that you have after having a really hard kickboxing career. And then this other thing on the side that you're also apparently very good at, I'm not trying to kill that momentum. Because right now that guy's got momentum in spades. If I'm Alex Pereira, I'm trying to get Izzy back, which he did very well. I don't think that's going to take, at least not right now. So then I'm just convincing the UFC, you need to book Johnny Walker versus Magamagamann and Kaliv 2. You need to book that tomorrow.

Like, we need to figure this out because I'm not, it would be promotional malpractice to steal a phrase from my old friend. If the UFC made this man with this type of momentum sit on the sidelines until like August. Like that is ridiculous in this division has been so broken in a way that has been almost funny for the last couple of years. But it is now somewhat salvaged. and we have at least a path to get it back on the right track, don't sit this man. Do not sit this man just to wait out a Jamal Hill fight that, you know, like, hey, again, Jamal won the title.

It was a very weird circumstance that he won the title with. He was not some long-reigning title holder. He did not rack up four or five, six title defenses. We do not need to wait. He can get the shot when he's ready, but I don't want to see Alex just sit out until that. What did you think of the college, Ed? because we're trying to get this division back to some kind of normalcy.

This probably doesn't accomplish that in a lot of respects, but I get where Alex is coming from. Yeah, why, I mean, Jamal could probably won't be until the summer, even though that's probably the most, it's one of the most interesting fights that the UFC can put together right now, but it's just not going to happen for a while. Does he want to fight Anka-Lyaf? Probably not.

Walker. I don't know. But is he's a big fight? It's a huge fight. So what did you make of the callout? One shot to him. I thought it was a really respectful callout, which because like the way he said it like,

I mean, you know there were tingees and undertones there, but it was like, hey, this dude got me off a barstool and committed to getting back here. He wants to take some time off. I want to do the same thing for him. I thought it was really weird. Izzy's response to it. I'm not Izzy.

I don't know what's going through his mind. But like, you just got dummied. Like, you just got dummied by a dude in one of the bigger upsets in the history of this sport, and you are now getting a gift to win a second title being offered to you. And he's just like, ha-ha scoreboard, even though the scoreboard actually is 3-1. Like, it was a very weird, like, dismissal from Izzy. But I don't love the callout in general because I would not like to see Izzy fight for the light heavyweight belt. coming off an absolute demolition by John Strickland in middleweight. But I totally get why Pereira did it.

Like that fight makes all the sense of the world for him from a business standpoint. So probably isn't going to be what ends up happening. But honestly, it kind of would make sense for the UFC right now because they don't have Magermanankalai have lined up because Johnny Walker. If one of those dudes had won that fight, but they didn't. So outside of that, you're looking at a rematch with Jan Blahovic, like maybe. you just vault Nikita Krillov in there if Pereira was trying to get back in there. And while that fight would be fun as hell and I'm super here for it, we're not doing that. We all know that.

So kind of makes some sense. I ultimately would prefer not to see it. But the biggest thing to me is Pereira does not have long. He's 36. He's been fighting for a million years. I don't, like Shane said, I don't want to see him sit out until the late summer. If he's ready to go, waiting for Jamal Hill. like no just just have him fight dudes the way to get this division on track per se is simply to have a dude fight for the belt repeatedly

instead of what happened this year which was a lot of weirdness so just get him in there against any warm body i'm okay with it hell man just give him johnny walker just give him somebody because yombo codes isn't even in the picture him and rackage has already booked for the beginning of the year like that rematch so like give him to keel gril off Hey, if you're the UFC, honestly, if it should be anybody, it should be Mangalban-Akhaliev because he probably should have had the belt already, but it's very clear that he was maybe maybe in a rush to get him to that spot. So if they're going to take an approach of Alex for four rounds or whatever,

it's just be boring. Yeah, if they're going to take an approach of you had your shot and you didn't convert, then give it to Johnny Walker. Just give him somebody to keep this belt active because this division, sucked for the last year, and we don't need that anymore. Like, let's just get it going again. What do you think is a bigger fight

from a promotional standpoint? Let's just say, UFC 300 rolls around, UFC's in the war room, Dana and the guys trying to figure this thing out. Izzy calls them and says, all right, I'm ready to fight a UFC 300. Jeanne, I'll ask you,

what's the bigger fight? Is it the trilogy for the light heavyweight title with Izzy? Or is it DDP? if DDP beats Sean Strickland in January. They're both interesting, but what one do you think is bigger? You said DDP Izzy. So, like, if you mean it middleweight? Like, if Izzy calls the UFC and says, hey, I'm ready to come back at UFC 300, my sabbatical

is over, I'm ready to go. DDP has the middleweight title. Alex Pereira has the light heavyweight title. So the UFC has to make a choice here. Do they go Izzy Pereira 3 for the light heavyweight title or do they go Izzy DDP for the middleweight title? I mean, that's tough because I'm working with incomplete information, right? Because at this present moment right now, today, as we're doing this show, Alex Pereira is a bigger star than Drigis duplice.

If Drigris duplice goes in there and just absolutely smashes on Sean Strickland and cuts a promo and just does his thing, he might be the next guy. Then maybe he has that momentum and then we're working under a different set of circumstances. So if you're just asking me right now, I would say the trilogy fight, no question, because that's just inherently going to be big. There's a built-in storyline. it feels unfinished. I think a lot of people will tune in for that and be aware of the past couple of fights and just want to see that.

The Izzy DDP thing will always be there, but if it, I mean, that certainly would be a very good option for the UFC as well, especially given the circumstances in that setting, it would be what we have laid out before on various other shows, Mike Heck, where it's Izzy coming in, sort of reverse the dynamic,

he's the challenger against the champion, DDP, who's the guy holding the belt. Like all of that would just be weird. So those are both big fights, but if you're asking me just right now, I would think the trilogy. What do you think of that? And also, just to add, because there's a lot to talk about here, where does Jiri Perashka go from here? I think the trilogy under any circumstances is just going to be bigger.

I mean, they've already fought twice. Both of those did good business. I think it just makes most sense. No matter what DDP does, I don't think he's going to surpass Pereira in this next fight. Plus, I know that not everyone's going to be. on board, but as the original, we should just book DDPSE and let's make this happen as fast as possible as the original that guy. At this point, if we're booking that for a title, buddy just put it in Africa, like just lean

all the way into the bad skid. Like, don't do that in Vegas. Like, just do it in Africa. Why the hell not blow the doors off the thing, you know? So I would definitely go trilogy there. As far as Yeri, there's plenty of room for Yeri, which is like. that's kind of the great part about this fight is, you know, the storyline coming in is, dude, these dudes haven't fought that much.

Here, he had 30 fights in the UFC and Alex had seven and won in light, heavyweight before this. Yere he has a list of dudes in this weight class that he hadn't beaten. Like, he hadn't fought. He hadn't been in there with. Pick a dice and roll it. Like whoever's around, you know, the loser of the Janbovovich-Ox-Ox-Ox-Wich-Oxand-Rackage fight. It doesn't matter because he's here.

He's going to make it fun as hell. My personal thing that I think the most I would want to see, ooh, that's a, I had one. And now I'm trying to think, let me pull up the UFC's rankings real fast and see kind of, what would be too deep for them to drop it back. No, yeah, I'd rather just do Johnny Walker-Yeary because that's going to be chaos incarnate. So run that. Hell yeah with that.

Like if I'm booking things for the sake of me, I would do Magerman Enklaif, gets a title shot because I think he's the best heavyweight in the world and we should just stop fiddling around with this and let him get the belt and then I would just be like hey Yuri Johnny Walker just go bang into each other for a while it's going to be really fun yeah I mean but I also would accept Nikita Krilov because he's also a lunatic

so they'll be really fun too yeah the options are plenty it'll be real interesting to see where Yuri goes from here it's got to be super interesting to see where Alex goes from here but Alex did the damn thing and Unwrapped holiday magic at Holt Renfrew with gifts that say I know you. From festive and cozy fashion to luxe beauty and fragrance sets,

our special selection has something for every style and price point. Visit our Holt's holiday shop and store or online at Holtrenfrew.com. Okay, only 10 more presents to wrap. You're almost at the finish line. But first... There, the last one. Enjoy a Coca-Cola for a pause that we're... refreshes.

As to Tom Aspinall, Shaheen Al-Shadi, Tommy Aspinall rolls in 12 days notice. Apparently, he strained his backs of barely trained for this fight, as he told Lorisanko, which certainly surprised Dana White, but certainly didn't look like a man who was hurt. He just goes in there and starches Sergei Pavovich in 69 seconds. Absolutely ridiculous performance. And Tom is getting over like Rover, man. He is getting over. His next fight is going to be gigantic.

It's probably going to be in the UK. He's probably going to defend that interim title. But golly, what a time to be Tommy Aspinall, who, what, 15 months ago, suffered a catastrophic injury 16, 17 months ago against Curtis Blades. And then fast forward, November of 2023, the dude is the interim heavyweight champion of the world. What a night for Tommy Aspinall, is it not? Oh, absolutely. I mean, I mean, man, the weird thing, like this fight was so weird in pre-event because it's just like we knew this was going to happen at some point, right? Like this was predestined almost.

Like this is the future of the heavyweight division. We all know this is the future of the heavyweight division. At some point, these two guys were going to fight for the title. And the fact that we got it this early was just almost kind of weird. And now we're already at this place with Tom Aspinall where it almost feels like too premature to have gotten to this place. but it's very clear that we need to be in this place. The guy's a special talent, man. Like, a lot of us were on an early, Jed.

I know you were on it early. You had him as your number one heavyweight in the world for a while now, but like the what he has been able to pull off, and in particular with what you mentioned, Mike, about what we found out afterwards, where it's not only that he took this challenge on less than two weeks notice, which apparently, by the way,

if you ever have an Englishman coming into a UFC title fight on like two weeks notice, apparently that's never bet against that person because you're just not going to have a bad, or you're not going to have a good time at all. But also the fact that, like, a back injury has basically held him out for the past, like, 10 days to the point where he was saying that he wasn't even sure he was going to be actually able to fight until literally tonight.

Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I know we're trying not to be reactionary, but I think we might actually be looking at the man who's finally going to carry that consecutive UFC title record for heavyweight past the steep of Miotrich mark where I think steep has three and everyone else sort of has. too, I think Tom's going to be that guy. Like this is a new breed heavyweight, right? Like, this is a special talent.

This is the athleticism. The precision with which he throws is everything he's got. And then the ability to just cover the great distances, too, that he does as quickly as he does. It is so remarkably unique for this heavyweight division. And ultimately, I got to admit, like, I left tonight almost just being like pre-bumbed out that, like, we're not going to see the fight we should actually be seen because Tom Aspinall versus John Jones is the fight we should be seen. And after tonight, there is a 1% chance if that that we ever see that fight. Because John Jones is not going to stick around to fight this man.

Everything we know about the past 15 years of John Jones's UFC career is that man takes calculated risks only. And there's no reason for him to have to stick around long enough to fight Tom Aspinall. He is going to fight Steve Amioch is going to beat the heck out of old man Steve Amioch next year. And then he is going to retire. And they're going to rob it, Wittaker, this whole situation post.

Bisbing where they just kind of annoyed Tom from the interim to the real champion and I am bummed out because that would be by far the most interesting, the most compelling John Jones matchup that we have seen since the first Daniel Cormey fight, which was like eight years ago somehow. We're all getting very old guys. But like the fact that we're not going to get it is going to

it's already like pre-pissing me off. What do you think about that, Jen? Andy was so wholesome too. Again, the post-fight presser, John, just let me fight for my dreams. You know, let me do this. Please, John. Like, I love everybody. So great.

I'll tell you, my big takeaway, I am so excited to hate Tom Aspinall in two years. It's going to be great. Because, dude, this is exactly where I was with Alexander Volcanovsky. I was a huge Volt guy before he won the belt. It was like, this guy's coming. This guy's amazing. He's going to be dope. And then he got the belt.

And then he was there for a while. And then it just turned. And I see it. I see the past. half here for Tom Aspin all the turn. I'm going to love hating this dude. In like three years, it's going to be ideal. Yeah, I mean, Shaheen's right.

Like, it would be great to get the John Jones fight. Like, that's, I don't know what John Jones is anymore. He's fought once in the last three years. It was a heavyweight. It was a squash match. Like, in your head, you think that this would be great, and maybe it would be. It will only ever live there, though. This fight's just never going to happen because, like,

why would John ever take this fight? Unless we dismiss it enough, if we collectively come together and we all just, John's scared. I love this take. This is the best take of the fight. You're so scared right now. You were scared of Francis. That's why it took you three years to call up to heavy weight. And now all you want to do is fight an old geriatric man who literally looks like he is on his way to a retirement party.

And you don't want this smoke from the big Englishman. because you're scared, John. I hope you get this message. And if we all collectively put that message out into the world, maybe John's ego will force him to be like, fine, I'll just kill Steepa real fast, and then I'll go fight this dude. And that would be electric.

That would be the biggest fight of the year that would be the most anticipated fight on the calendar for me. I don't think it's going to happen, but we can all do our part by just negging John Jones into taking this fight. This is amazing. This is the best take. This is the best take of the book.

This is maybe, you can put this on your Hall of Fame, Jed, because this is, like, us collectively. I think it's the only move. Us collectively inceptioning into John Jones had why he should take this fight, like shaming him into it would. I bet you won't do it. The only way that this is going to happen, but that is an actual feasible way that this happens. And I am now all in on this. We should absolutely do this. I'm just going to neg him every time.

on camera. I'm just going to add it into the end of the outro. Love y'all. John, you scared. Get him there. Well, I mean, John did respond. I don't know if it's more of like a passing of the torch tweet or I don't know what it was. I mean, let's be clear.

John responded with Johnny. Like that was that interim was front and center right there is letting you know. Way to win that fake belt. But John couldn't just come on and say. a way to win that fake belt. Come on, John. Is Cyril gone going to get Aspinall next? Probably. I don't know who else they gave it to him. Which is dumb, and I hate that.

Because, like, dude, if you get mushed in the way you got mushed, you need to win two. Like, you don't get to beat Sergei Spivak and be like, I'm right back in the title picture. Like, beat one other homie. It was just, but I don't know who else gets it since Jailton did not impress. Like, I think Jailton should fight zero gone. I think that fight actually should happen. And then, I don't know, just put a warm body against Tom Aspinall. He's going to kill anybody in 60 seconds because that's all this dude does.

If they make Tom Aspinall defend his interim belt before we actually get a John Jones title defense against Stepe, then just strip John Jones. What are we doing? You can't defend the interim belt while the active champion is, I don't know. I mean, sure, you can. Obviously you can. But, like, come on, guys. Dude, let's run back Tom and Curtis Blades when Curtis is back. How long is Curtis out right now?

I mean, Curtis just got knocked out by Sergey Pavlovich. Yeah, that's fine. I mean, that happened this summer or whatever. It's fine. It's not like that was like nine months ago. He's got a W over Tom Aspinall. We got to correct that. Well, we'll see what happens.

But a good day for the heavyweight division, I would say, Tom Aspinall, what a performance. You got to get him in London. And if he's still the, if he's defending the interim title in London, who cares? It's just going to be Tom Aspinall doing Tom Aspinall things. And the crowd's going to be behind him singing his song, singing his name. And he's just going to look like an even bigger star if he comes through. So hold on.

Hold on. Before we move on. Please, please. Question for both of you. Is Tom Aspinall the number one heavyweight in the UFC right now in your mind? Yes. Undeniably. He will be ranked

Where did I rank? I think I ranked a bit too Behind John I did I would Look this may be in prison In a moment And I wouldn't be shocked

If I was wrong Casey and I talked about this In the presser I would pick Tom Aspinall Would beat John Jones right now If John wasn't hurt And they booked that fight for You know 300

I would pick Tom Asperol win Wouldn't be like Super confidently bet my whole house on it But I very much would like his chances To be John That's not a hot time Are you just comment up

Yeah, I mean, it's a great, it's a great fight. It's just too bad. There's a very small chance we get it. And it's unfortunate. But like Jed said, we can all come together. Heavy weight's so dumb because there are two fights, there are three fights, realistically that should be happening and that we should get just for our own sake as a sport. Francis versus John, Francis versus Tom, Tom versus John.

And we're going to get zero of them. I mean, Jailton's out. there, you know. Yeah, it's a very dumb sport. Hey, maybe Derek Lewis gets a title shot after all this because he didn't get submitted or finished by Joe's made. Hey, listen, Stranger Things have happened. They go to Manchester and Derek Lewis says, yes, they would do it.

It would be a fun fight. People would actually care about it. So, plus he's a bigger star than Stepe, right? They just like jailed So whatever it is But Jed freeze

Oh I think we lost Jed I'm here Are you there Is this how you're He's froze Can I hear We should maybe go off

Jed All right let's Let's continue on We also had Jessica Andraj With the Y'all Must have a got performance

She just kind of runs over Mackenzie Dern McKenzie Dern McKenzie Dern was competitive for about four minutes the final minute of round one once she started really feeling jesska with those like kicks she couldn't keep jessica down you could kind of see her just back going backwards she was kind of just ready to be done

with that fight but jacondrauds gets it done her fifth fight of 2023 gets back in the win column starts off the year at the win ends the year at the win great job by her and wasantani absolutely ethering mafrivola that was an incredible knockout just kicked him right in the face absolute brutality. Diego Lopez just making that case for rookie of the year, gets a quick finish of Pat Sabatini. Shaheen, outside of the top two storylines, which performance, which moments stuck out to you the most tonight?

Oh, man. I mean, outside of Brian Minor, just being the worst at his job that anybody has ever been at their job and there's going to be zero recourse and man, just gets to skate off into the night and have a great old time in New York outside of that. Let's see.

I mean, Benoit Saint-Dine certainly stood out, right? Like, that dude's going to be fighting for a UFC title, probably like by the end of 2026 because lightweight's so dumb and clogged up and it just takes prospects a long time to be able to get the kind of fights that they need, but he's definitely going to be fighting for a title within the next couple years. And I can't wait for that. That's going to be very interesting. I got to say Diego Lopez, though, man.

Oh, boy, what a talent. What a, this featherweight division is just really. ridiculous, man. This new guard at Featherweight, like how loaded the coffers are right now with this next generation at 145 is just ridiculous. And now you can go ahead and throw this guy in the mix too. Like this man, just to like maybe you think you had a good year. Anybody out there listening to this? This man's had a better year than you. This dude's going to be our rookie of the year probably, unless I'm just not, unless I'm totally missing just like a very obvious name. Like I don't know who else would be it, who would be able to surpass him in that respect.

this dude this year has coached alexigraso or helped coach Alex Grasso to just this monumental title upset over Valentina Shvchenko, one of those dominant champions of the last decade. Also almost beat Moussare Vloyv in his UFC debut. Moseuiovloy of potential future champ, right? Like actual guy in this division who will matter. And then two straight first round stoppages.

And tonight was brutal, dude. Tonight was, like for someone who is known as a jiu-jitsu guy to be able throwing hands and feet the way that he was tonight, Oh man 145 is so loaded It is so so loaded And that is always the thing of why When everybody was talking about

Oh Volk has no one to fight Volk has no one to fight Which just drove me insane Because there are so many good names Going up right now at 145 Who are starting to earn their shots And that was always the thing of just like Yeah Volk has a lot of people left to fight guys

Volk fought max a couple times Like that took up a lot of time There are a lot of names right now for Volk to fight And I am so in on Diego Lopez man, that guy is super fun to watch. Yeah, Diego and Elvis Brenner are going to be battling an out for that rookie of the year spot, I think. It's going to be those are the one and two guys.

I think right now, Brenner's 3 and O. He's got some good wins. A couple of finishes as well. And yeah, Lopez definitely putting himself in the mix. Jed, what was your biggest takeaway tonight outside of the top two fights? I just want to say, Shaheen, welcome to the Alexander Volcanoz who been fighting all. It's a great point. I get people up.

It's great. I love being a blood on the train for happy to have more passengers. It has to be, like, that's the big takeaway, because if he looked awesome. No, absolutely no qualm. If you're like, that's the dude, I'm not going away from you. But is this, is this rough for you guys? I already, yeah. Jed.

Yeah, Jed, Jed, Jed. You might need to reset your situation. All right. We'll make an effort then. All right. There we go. With Amex Platinum, $400 in annual credits

for travel and dining means you not only satisfy your travel bug, but your taste buds too. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Conditions apply. It's hockey season, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats.

Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get a nice rank on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice? Yes, we deliver those. Goaltenders, no. But chicken tenders, yes. Because those are groceries, and we deliver those too. Along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials.

Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Hey, some good performances, Jared Gordon. Nice wind for him. Big moment, Jammer's.

Even though he missed weight. Nasty knockout, first finished and over. over three years since this first finish in the UFC. Just a lot of good things have Steve Versa. Loopy Godinez just quietly putting together just a really nice resume right now and a really nice streak. Josh Van Kenham, Warehouse, great fight.

Yes, go ahead, Sheen. Let me ask you, Mike, because I'm curious for your thoughts on this. You mentioned, you briefly mentioned, McKinsey Dern, to me, at least. And I'm still trying to figure out how I feel about it. But I feel like, at least in the moment, as we're speaking right now, tonight almost felt like an indictment on, maybe not an indictment, but like tonight felt like the final nail in the

coffin of like, okay, this is what this is going to be, right? Like this is the McKinsey Dern and the UFC story. This is sort of the ceiling. We may have reached the ceiling because I don't know what we were watching, but that was such a drastic regression from her advancements in the Angela Hill fight and seemingly just her starting to piece together all of the different parts for a game. It's been so many years at this point and yet we're still talking about her as if she's a prospect talking about her as, you know, she's a couple of fights into the UFC career still with the same complaints about just no ability to get the fight to where she needs to get it. She still has not really figured out a takedown or trip package in her in her tool chest

that consistently can work for her to get the fight where she wants it to be. She hasn't figured out that Damien Maya, you know, trip against the fence or anything like that. Like it feels like like she is incredibly, incredibly, incredibly, inhumanly tough. And ultimately that's starting to work against her, it almost feels like, in some of these fights, like tonight where she's just getting dropped four times. I don't know, man. To me, you tell me if you disagree, but to me it felt like tonight was sort of the nail in the coffin and McKinsey Dern's probably going to be a UFC title consender conversation.

Yeah, it's funny because in cases here, during the people's pre-fight show, someone asked who on the main card has the most to lose, and we both said it was McKenzie Dern. Like she needed this one. Even with Androjan the three-fights kid, if Dern didn't win this fight, that's it. Like the title hopes are done. And even with a win here, I still don't think that gets her there. I think it would have set up a fight with Tatiana Suarez, like a five-round main event type thing, like a true number one contender fight. They'd probably go with Zhang and Jan. And it's kind of a win-win for the UFC. But yeah, I'm with you. I think she did have the most to lose heading in. And I think she lost a ton tonight. Not just the fight, but I think the door has slammed on her title hopes officially. And that's tough. It's a weird thing to say for someone who's only 30, right? Because we're seeing like we were just talking about a 36-year-old who within the past two years has put together this Hall of Fame run. So it feels so short-sighted and stupid almost to be making these proclamations for a 30-year-old.

But it's just the lack of growth, man. Like we have not seen these things improve at all over so many years at this point. It just feels like some people can't figure certain things out. And it just feels like that's just something she's never going to be able to figure out. I want to be wrong. I want to be wrong so badly because I've seen her actual skill set, the jiu-jitsu against the high-level women in this division is always fun. It's just we get such fleeting moments of it.

I mean, this is her third chance right now of, like, getting to that level, and she's lost all three of them. She lost to, I mean, she got beat by Marina Haudriga. She got beat by Janjan. And then she just got beat by Jessica Andraj. Like, I don't know what else they could do for her. at this point. They've tried. They've given her opportunities. And I just, I just don't think you can come back from it now. Like, I think you can, you know, still be a top 10 fighter,

but I think you become kind of where Androge was heading into this fight. Like, not a, I mean, close to a gaykeeper, but someone who's got a name that better for worse, she's got to become kind of like in a weird way, like almost the Caitlin Chukay Gate of this division right now. Like, She's going to be the one that they're going to throw in there with, like, the young hungry whippersnappers who are good runs. Like, I'll give it on to the next one pick right now. I think Loopy Godenette should fight McKeon might fight. Like, just do that fight and see if Loopy can get over that hump. Like, just give her a shot and see what she can do.

And it's not like McKenzie can, I mean, she could say no, but why would she? Like, this is kind of where McKenzie Dern is now. And that's fine. You can still have a good career, but just three opportunities. It's disappointing. It's tough. It's tough. It's just disappointing.

Because I mean, especially for me, like I'm an Arizona guy. I grew up just hearing about her for years and years before she was really like a mainstream thing, right? It was just like, oh, this demon, this demon on the mask. She's, she's incredible. And then she was. She was one of the best in Jiu-Jitsu. She was a top Jiu-Jitsu champion for a long time. But I don't know, man.

I really thought this UFC run was going to amount to more. And maybe it will ultimately again. She's 30. But right now it's just disappointing. Yeah. Jedd, I think you're back. You look clear. I hope I'm back.

You sound good? You sound good? I could hear you guys the whole time. So I don't know what's happening there, which is fun. Yeah, two thoughts on McKinsey darn very quickly. One, I think what Chaheen said at the end there is sort of where I'm at. She's still really young. I doubt she's ever going to get like high because of the limitations.

But weak division, still kind of old division. Three wins gets her there, particularly because she's. She is someone with a name. And if she found herself, like, randomly in a title fight, she has the superior, like, a superior skill set that could mean she might just F around and win a belt. Like, it is a thing that could happen. So I wouldn't, like, totally write her off, but, I don't know, the cake's pretty baked. Like, she's not a bad striker, but she's an awful striker somehow.

Like, when she's not being panicky and weird, she can jab and do things. and then like she feels some sort of internal pressure of like, ooh, I've been striking for too long. Now I must run forward recklessly. And it was a very, very weird performance in that regard and something that she has sort of repeatedly done. But she's 30. Got sometimes like has talent.

I think there's a world where she could figure something else out. But the most important takeaway from this fight, y'all, which I assume you didn't say because I didn't hear it because I was, you know, doing this, is just think about this. Think about what we prove tonight at UFC 295, guys. Jiu-Jitsu is fake and that the strongest style is punching people in the face real hard because multiple-time world champion McKinsey Dern can't do anything. And this Alex Pereira comes to him as a two-division champion

and might not actually be able to grapple. We're still not sure yet. So we've now definitively proved jujitsu doesn't matter. It's a great day for mixed martial arts. Well said. Let's bring Casey in Let's hear from you all Take some questions from the peeps

It is 335 a.m. on the East Coast Oh, it's early, baby It's early Before we take questions I need us to note two things I made marks of First is MSG rules

Because the last 10 main card fights Have happened to MSG Have been finishes So keep going to MSG Keep bringing Alex Pere at MSG He's 3 in O there being the king of MSG is a great gimmick. The second thing, can we talk about the Stairdown boys?

Because the main event's Stairdown. The walkouts, the music. Amazing. That was the best one of those in a long time. I think that's why the stoppage hurt me so much because the card was incredible. The walkouts for the main event, the music, and then the stoppage. That's all. Dude, the stairdown was so...

Pereira just didn't move an inch. And he had that cool camera angle, that camera angle behind Yeri. Yeah. Oh, it was great. When Yuri stares the whole time, like, he's, like, the master in a, you know, an old martial arts film. Like, I'm about to teach you something, my child, while Pereira's staring daggers through him and not moving an inch. Like, it was who I was so ready for that fight when that was happening. I don't know what Bruce Buff was saying.

I didn't care. I just wanted them get after it. It was awesome. Just the it's both of those guys just have like a weird mystical quality to them now. Just after the history we have with them and sort of what they represent. And I mean, even at the Wayans, we talked about it on the preview show, but their stare at start out on official wayans was just like the best non-eventful stare down. I've ever seen in my entire life where nothing actually happened,

but it was giving me chills. And it's just something about these two dudes. I love it, man. I know Pereira Izzy is like the big rivalry, but I hope the UFC with proper matchmaking and a little bit of trash talk that Pereira and Yeri will somehow become like this great trilogy.

Yeah, I hope Yer is just like one fight away from running it back because I don't know, I feel there's something there. Like we had a, we're on the edge of like a great rivalry. That's not trashdunk. You know what I mean? I think that's super feasible, right? Like Yeri, Yeri is a very uncommon.

He's similar to Alex in that he's a very uncommon case in that like he's had four UFC fights. It feels like he's had a lot more UFC fights. He's had four UFC fights and he's probably the second biggest star in that division, right? Like who else is there? He's like the second biggest name. Like people love him and justifiably because the fights are insane and everything about him is insane. And that's just what we want out of it. We want characters.

We want these people, we want these fighters to be people we could see in like a Mortal Kombat game or something. And Gehry so much is that guy. Like he's absolutely, he is absolutely one fight away from fighting for the title again. Yeah. This could be like Poria Geichi of the light heavyweight division. I don't want to wait that long to run a back a second time, but I think we're all going to be hankering for it at some point. Yeah.

Yeah. All right. Oh, we got here. What's next for Jessica Andrudge? I'm going to answer this. I mean, I think I already ain't. Oh, no, I didn't. I don't know.

What is next for Jessica and Drudge? You could do Loopy Jessica and Drudge, too. I mean, there's options of plenty here. I mean, what a year, though, right? What a year for Jessica and Drudge. Five fights. It looks like she was almost done, done, like a couple of months ago,

and now she's right back at basically where she started. Very weird year. Yeah. 26th, that was her 26th fight in the UFC. That makes sense That's insane All three divisions All three divisions

All three divisions Yeah Future Hall of Famer Definitely future Hall of Famer Oh yeah It's incredible Yeah I'm really glad she found a way

To a title Because hers is the career That doesn't have a title normally Like you just see this And I'm really glad She found the way to get one Because that's I think it's pretty necessary

And I'm very happy for it be. That's a great point because you're right. We've seen this in so many other divisions. The all-action fighter, who accepts every single fight who transcends divisions just kind of bounces around in divisions, but is always super fun and super

violent. That person never wins a title. You're so right. They like a title shot, but then it just doesn't, you know, it's, and she found one. It was awesome. She was really happy she got one. And our Q&A QA caught her, the female RDA in a sense.

I was like, oh, I kind of get that. Super long career. Got that title, got that title. And you just always knew you had a fight with her. So, yeah. There's only one answer to this question. And I'm going to keep throwing this out. I'm going to keep throwing this out until it happens.

It's Rose. It's the Rose trilogy. That's the fight. You can do it a 15 or 25. It don't matter. That's the fight to make. I love that. That's the call.

Yeah. You're pretty good at this matchmaking thing, Mike. Maybe you should do a show about it. It's not bad. I might start one tomorrow. 1030. Also, the commentary reminded me of something that I knew to be true, but I forgot that she has a win over Lurissa Pacheco, which is freaking wild.

What? Yeah. You dropped him in the UFC at the UFC at 35. Dude, I was stunned. Wild. I was stunned John Winther, John Anick went there. I didn't. As soon as he went there, as soon as he started it, too, it was like, okay.

Is he going to say PFO? No, he's not going to talk. John had some of those tonight because he shouted out Nimcov, like unnecessarily when Rogan was pretty clearly like not talking about it when he was like, yeah, he's got all these other wins and Rogan's like dancing around as like Nimcov? And he's like, oh yeah, I guess Nimcov, sure. He had a couple of those. He's feeling frisky today.

Yeah. Well, Annick had to read 18 power slap promos and you could hear his voice like cringe every single time he had to read him. It was pretty funny. Plus he might have known that Dana was going to absolutely eviscerate the idea of co-promotion and then afterwards so it's fine. No.

We'll never do that. Oh, man. You stupid. I love that question. Whoever asked that question, great job, by the way. You stupid person. You dumbest man. I don't know who it was who did that, but you were so close to having a moment. You just didn't you weren't prepared.

You weren't prepared for the pushback and it was such an easy response to be able to give back. It was. You hadn't, you weren't ready for it. Just, uh, we can't all be Alex for hers, you know. I wanted to hand them notes. You can all. Say this now.

He tried. He's a trier. And I give him props for that. At least he asked the question. He's going to get kind of posterized for the response. Stupid. Stupidest question of the day. How, how dare you suggest that we put on the biggest possible fight in the history of the world right now?

now. How dare you? You stupid. Nonsense. We make the fights people want to see. Except that one. Questions. Hold on. We have a fight 297 that could decide Alex's first challenger, Belhovic versus Rackage 2 and also contenders lining up. How would the light heavyweight division look if Alex gets what he wants with Izzy? I mean, that feels pretty It's not going to happen Or at least it's not going to happen immediately But it would in that scenario

It would be Alex fights Izzy Johnny Walker and Mungomann and Kalaya fight Their winner gets next And then the Blackwood's Rackich 2 winner It probably has to fight one more time And then they get next maybe against Yiri Yeah But like

If Izzy wins That would just be a nightmare That's the problem Yeah It would just be really awful of Izzy blood. Why would it be awful? I push back on that.

I get, I get, it's fashionable to hate Izzy right now, but Izzy's an incredibly active champion. This is not, it's fashionable to hate Izzy. Like, then what are we doing? Like, it's, I don't know. Then he, then he's the light, heavyweight champion. He gets to fight.

Like, every way in the world, that's going to be weird. I'm not okay with that. I mean, then he's the light heavyweight champion. He fights the Mago Ben and Kali of Johnny Walker winner. He's an active, he wants to be, I mean, he has been an active champion in the past. I'm not... Just kidding him at the belt.

He's the best guy in the way clash. Just get him the belt. Let's stop all this nonsense. Bro, I agree with you, but also there's a very good chance to Mago Bad Ankaaa. Era sucks. He's never going to talk for the time. There's a good chance that era sucks and is very not fun to watch. Oh, I mean, miserable era, but he's just never going to get to have that era.

All right, I'm going to do the thing. Do the thing, UFC. Do the thing. I'm putting this question just to annoy Jed. Question, has there ever been anyone with a better chance of becoming three-weight champion than AP? Yes. I mean, I think Henry Suhudo has a better chance than Pereira does of beating John Jones or Tom Aspinall. Like, I think Pereira could have success at heavyweight.

I don't think he can have success at heavyweight against the absolute upper echel of that division. Tom Aspinall is going to feed him his ass, like, if they fought. It's just how that would go. And I love Alex Pereira, but that fight would be over quickly. On the feet? I don't think he has a good chance at it. Do you think Asperon could win on the feet? Or do you have to use that?

I do believe he could win on the feet because we just saw him dummy up Pallowage. But I don't think he would even do that. I think as soon as he takes it over, we've seen that Pereira is actually a better defensive grapple than he gets credit for, but he is not a proactive one. He is all about trying to stay safe. and I think Tom Aspinall would just run his shit as soon as it got over. Like, I think that I feel like there. I do think, like, I would not have picked Henry Sehudo to beat Bolkinovsky, obviously,

but it would be far less surprising to me if Henry Sehudo found a way to game out a win over the top featherweight, then it would be if Alex Pereira beat John Jones, you know, or whatever. Yeah, it's just a size thing. It's the, I mean, when size is unlimited, Like that's where you probably meet the road, right? Although I just, I know it's not a championship fight, but man, I just want to see Alex Pereira versus Derek Lewis. Yeah, he just want to tell.

It'd be dope. And I'd like, Pereira could easily, maybe I'd pick him to win that fight, you know. I think he could beat a lot of heavy weights. I'm not saying he couldn't have success up there. But heavyweight is so stratified into halves and half-nots. I don't think he'd beat the halves. All right.

I'm trying to think who else. could have been well i mean so the actual best answer to this was valentina shropchenko at a period where she could have won the women's featherweight title too if she had just beaten them in and but that era passed us by so i think the actual best answer this is probably Anderson Silva because the heavyweight division was pretty bad at the beginning of Anderson Silva's run and he definitely could have obviously been light heavyweight champion as well historically there are of people that I think like could have fit in. Like there was very much a time window where Frankie Edgar could have if he had been fighting

at like 135 by the time he'd done that. I'm trying to think slightly more currently. But yeah, I think Anderson would be a great answer for that. This is a different tangent, but like Anderson's career is such an interesting case study of like if Anderson came up today in today's climate and today's sort of rule set that we work within with these divisions and title shots, etc. Dude, Anderson Civil would have been a two-division champion so fast. Like, he would have been rushed into that second title shot so damn quickly.

Almost immediately, yeah. I mean, I guess there's an argument Anderson could have won four or two because we talked about when we did the Anderson damn. Anderson beat Mock Soccer Eye at Walterweight. Mock was like one of the top four fighters in the world. So I think that there are others and we'll probably have, But if I had to pick a person now, the answer is Connor. Because again, winning titles in multiple weight classes is more about opportunity than like all time excellence because just not everyone gets the chance.

If Connor beats Michael Chandler, there's a non-zero chance that he gets to fight Colby Covington for the Walterway title next year. And then like it just takes one left hand and then there we go. Connor could fight Colby 10 times and he's losing that fight 10 times. Jessica Androge wasn't too far away from a championship fight at 35. I mean, she did beat Raquel Pennington, who was fighting for the belt in a couple in a few weeks. So Jessica Androge, I mean, maybe not won them all, but number one contend during three weight classes, for sure. That's the thing.

I'm not good. I don't care if you win in two. If you win in three, I'll start admitting that that's pretty freaking impressive. That's a pretty powerful one. All right. did you um BJ beat Leota Machita at light heavyweight

This is a bit of a broad question Which What is each of you guys Top three fights you're looking forward to in 2024 Top three Jesus Yeah You have one maybe Isn't this easy

Didn't they? Because we just announced A bunch of title fights And all of them were bangers I mean DDP Striclin for me That's a good one number one

Voltaire is up there number two that's number two for me honestly three is Sean and Cheeto for me probably number three for me

I could also be convinced of that being something else it would be it would be Pereira Jamal Hill for me that would be number three I just have so many questions

honestly and I think that would be a great fight to get some answers What is Jones? What is the eventual Jones-Stepe booking? I do not get it. Not on the list.

19. I have never been interested in that fight. And I am with you. I'm with you. I think it's just so interesting. Yet, like, we work in the industry. We do this for a living for many years now. And yet the biggest money-making fight is not even, like, not even our top 10.

It's a dichotomy. It's dark. Because we know the joke and the people who broadly help boost these things are not. They're casuals. They know the names of people. They don't understand the context of what is happening. Yeah, I was just, it still kind of floors me. It's weird.

It's definitely weird. It's just weird. I'll add another one. I'll add another one. MSG, 24, one of the first main card fight. fights Benoit Santinie versus Raphael Fazeve. Because we ain't going to get that next for BSD. But I'm going to pick BSD to probably fight the hooker, Bobby Green winner.

And then if he beats them, he will fight Raphael Fiziv at MSG in November. Fiziv is the first fight I wanted. And then Casey was like, isn't he hurt? And I was like, oh, that's right. Yeah. But we decided that. That's a brutal way to introduce Raphael Fiziv back to the mix. Like, hey, I know you just came off a torn ACL.

Hell, here's Benoit Saint-Denie, enjoy it. Jeez. That's just what, that's, that's lightweight. If you're going to be at the top of lightweight, it's a good chipper in a shark tank. You're just, that's lightweight. You're just fighting for your life every time out there. Saint-Den-N-A has to be the easiest guy to matchmaking.

You can literally, that guy, awesome fight, that guy, awesome fight. There's not, there's not a bad fight. You can matchmake for St. That being said, if you're an actual matchmaker, he is probably the hardest guy to matchmaking in that division. Yeah, he's there. Because I'll tell you, he's calling out. He's going out.

He's going out. Gambrod, he's calling out. Porreye, he is getting none of those fights. Those dudes are not taking that. Come on. Gamrod might fight it. Gamrod, Gamrod. I don't know.

Gamrod maybe. No, Gamrod already did his favors to these guys. He's not going that far back again. But here's the issue. No one wants to fight Gamrod above him either. So it's like, you're just kind of boxed in because Porier won't fight anybody. And Gachie's not fighting unless it's for the title. And Michael Chandler is desperately hanging on.

to Connor. They're just not going to fight these dudes, so it's tough. Fiziziz hurt. I guess... I can see Sarukin after... If Serrucian beats Binaldairu, she deserves better, but I could see him just being stuck there. I mean, like, I guess I'll fight him.

Whatever. Yeah, better not happen. Mike, do you think Surukian's getting a title shot next year? Because I got to tell you, I don't think that's happened. I got bad news for you if you think he is. I think he may very well be... Vinnie Daryush. I don't think that's going to matter at all.

Well, Islam's going to fight Charles. Then he's going to fight Gachi. So, yeah, it's going to be tough for him. It's going to be tough. And Deneo Daryush is not, and Armand's not going to fight anyone above him because none of them will take the fight with them. It's just jail. It's just prison.

I wish we could match me against EASD with some people because I'd watch him fight Gagee all day long. Pereira and Nengana both competing for Fighter of the Year? No, I mean, I won't have I get them on a ballot. Alex's run is incredible, but he's also on the receiving end of the knockout of the year. Like, I don't know that I can put him as fighter of the year right now. It's Sean Strickland. He might make like a list of 10. I think Poetan would make a list of 10 for me, but.

It's going to be Sean Strickland or Inganon. Because I'll tell you what, there are a lot of people on this team who right now, if we did this, would put in Francis Ingan. Yeah, well, I understand that. I don't think I'll do it. I understand it. I don't think I'll do it. I may break my rule and I might put Islam up high in that list,

even though I will hate it. Leon, Leon gets a win over Colby. He's going to be fairly high on the list. But, yeah, I mean, I think Strickland is probably in the driver's seat right now. If Pantosia beats Royval, he's on the list. If Pantosia Beach, it's actually true. The winner of that might end up being mine because I don't know if I can give it to Sean Strickland and a good conscience.

Like I just do you, it's looking back. In five years, do you want to look back and be like, Sean Strickland was a fighter of the year? Because he beat Abis? I don't know. I don't want to live. Well, that's not why he was fighter of the year. Let's be genuine.

But that's part of the story. And I don't want to look back and say, that I have standards. I think you need to go back and listen to the first 30 minutes of the UFC 294 post-fight show and still tell me if you feel the same way. The only post-fight show of the year that I've gone back and listened to after the fact outside of just like the production purposes of getting it on the podcast network because it is literally the funniest post-fight show ever.

I agree. I agree. It was one of the funniest things. And I'm not opposed to you making Fighter of the Year, but it's just the year. That's upset, funniest event of the year. Yeah, all of those things. But I don't know. In 2028, I don't want to look back and be like, we really pick Sean Strickland.

I think we'll have regrets if we do that. It's kind of like when like Shakespeare in love won best picture. Like, what are you thinking? It's okay. Yeah, almost actually, almost exactly like that case. Well, that movie's fine. I mean, it's fine. But that's weird.

Pulp Fiction was out that year. I think. Pretty odd, you know? Yeah, but here's the thing. There's not a more compelling option. Like, if anything, Strickland winning is emblematic. No, no, no, no, if anything Strickland winning as much is like incredibly emblematic of what 2023 was. I think I'm picking in Ghana.

I think I'm going to lock it in. He fought the UFC and won. Like, that's a pretty big win. He's the fighter who does. define the year the most to me. If I think back on 2023 as a year, I think in God, it was the answer. And then it's

probably Strickland. And honestly, even though I hate this, is Lump's probably third. It's just the biggest moments, but we still have time. You know, we don't have to solve this now, but somebody, I did see somebody ask me this question, and I have the answer,

but I had to pause for a second, which made me really unhappy. is Poetan's career better than Habib's? I do not believe it is, but you can't say that it's not like a snap call, right? Do you mean like his UFC career, his MMA career, or his combat sport career? Because, well, it's combat sport career, certainly. But I'm just, like, even if you just restrict it to his MMA career. No, no, it's not.

But it's, I don't think that's a snap call. You sort of have to pause from it and be like, I don't know. this is really impressive what he's done in this short span. It did make me pause. I did have to go through my kind of topology record in my head real quick. You should have to think about it for a second. And then you're like, no, obviously not. But isn't that insane that a dude with seven fights has that, like, over a hall of favor?

It's fucking nuts. To me, to me, that's not even, I didn't have to stop and think about it. Like, his combat sports career is much better. But Habib Narco Madov was the best fighter that I have ever seen. I agree. Also, combat sports career, we're just going to discount all of Habib's World Combat Samba. Come on, bro. And it's 500 street fights.

Undefeated in the streets. Motherfucker beat a bear. You tell him when Poeton beats a bear and then we can start talking. I've seen him play basketball. Poetan versus a bear. Who's winning that? Who's picking that right now? How big a bear?

I guess small black bear. I think Poeton can put the left on him, you know? A grizzly, you got to always pick the grizzly, you know. Yeah, I mean, I still wouldn't, I'd still give photos. Yeah. Dude, he puts, that is the best part of that. It'll be some weird stoppage, like flash knock out of the grizzly. We've, we, this is in New York.

If it's, if it's versus a grizzly in MSG, Poetton, easy. Is Brian Miner a judge? Oh, geez. We've really reached some 4 a.m. type of conversation, I'll tell you that. Yeah, I think we have. Brian Miner. a day. Respect to that.

I aspire to be so bad at my job and it not matter at all. Like that made his crap. That's the thing. Like no one else, no other job in the world could you be this bad at it. And literally the only other job is like, Netmo baby where it just doesn't matter that you fail. It's like,

I'm good. My favorite part of all of this is that like, okay, he had the two really bad ones in a row where like you just had a really really bad 30 minutes. But then like to come in later in the night and be like, hey, this McKinsey Dern just got to drive.

I think she won that round. I think the one who got really messed up probably won that round, guys. That's just, that area on top of you. We're all trashing McKinsey Dern. Like, I won that round.

What are you talking about? Yeah, had a bad second round, but won the first round. We're good. One one. That's a very bad car. It's a very bad guy.

Are we good? He had the worst night of judging I've ever seen. Yes, well, hey, listen, what an event it was. We had it all. We had one terrible judge, multiple incredible performances, new champions, new stars rising, new contenders. We had it all. MSG had it all. We had a walkout with Dana White, Donald Trump, Kid Rock, and Tucker Carlson tonight.

I mean, literally, everything happened. at Madison Square Garden. Let's see what they bring to MSG next year. But a lot coming up, we get a rare weekend. Alex Breer knocking some dude out, because that's all he does. I didn't see it. I saw a bad stoppage, but moving on. We got a, we're back of the apex next week.

Brendan Allen versus Paul Craig. Early card. Casey, maybe this is it. As I recall, you also didn't like the last time Alex Perea had a stoppage in the main event at Madison's Park. I like this one less. Well, there was a lot to like, and we will reflect on this throughout the week

on all of our programming. So for Jed, Casey, Sean, I am Mikeak. Thank you for watching. Good night, everybody. Love y'all. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.