MMA Fighting - UFC 301 Post-Fight Show: Reaction To Alexandre Pantoja's Scare, Jose Aldo's Big Return

Episode Date: May 5, 2024

The Brazilian fans in Rio de Janeiro certainly went home happy after Alexandre Pantoja earned a hard fought unanimous decision win over Steve Erceg to retain his flyweight title in the UFC 301 main event, but it was Jose Aldo, now the sport's biggest free agent, who sent the arena into a frenzy with his throwback performance against Jonathan Martinez. Following Saturday's pay-per-view fight card, MMA Fighting's Mike Heck, Jed Meshew, and Eric Jackman react to Pantoja's successful title defense, the scoring of the fight, and if Erceg made a fight-losing mistake in the fifth round. Additionally, the panel discusses Aldo's dominant win and what's next for him, his title hopes if he re-signs with the UFC, Michel Pereira's quick finish, Anthony Smith's upset win, and much more. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Follow Eric Jackman: @NewYorkRic Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian

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Available now, only from Audible. We're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. All right, those are the victory mourns, ladies and gentlemen, and they sound for Alexander Pantosia, still the flyway champion of the world. Also sounds for the King of Rio, Jose Aldo coming back, vintage form,

beaten Jonathan Martinez via unanimous decision. But the big question surrounding the night and is still being asked here at the Vox Media Studios here in New York City, did Vinnie Siggs, did Vincenzo Ursa give away the UFC flyway title and the final two minutes of UFC 301? We will discuss that and much more here on the UFC 301 post-fight show.

I am Mike Hack. Thank you for joining us. We got a crew here first. Mr. Hot Take, Mr. No Gray area, the Cannonball kid himself, Jed Vishu. Jen, how are we doing? The goat won. We're doing amazing. Not only did the goat win, the goat won and then said he wasn't retiring. I mean, I kind of wish he was retiring, but whatever.

This is the best day. And then, you know, the main event was pretty fun. Like, I'm not going to, I'm not going to see here and tell anyone this is best card, but certainly the main thing. card was worth your while. So if you paid for that, you can't feel like you got robbed too much for that. So if you got to watch it, some people didn't get to. But we could talk about that later, Mike. Oh, I don't even know what you're talking about. Seriously, I really have no idea. So you'll have to break some news for me. But also joining us, and it's always an honor when he does so,

you're Rick joining us on the post fight show. How are we doing, sir? Hey, boys, doing great. Um, I feel like UFC 301 delivered. I feel like it was pretty decent. I enjoyed myself. I had a good time. And it's only 120 a.m. here on the East Coast. So, yeah, I'm enjoying myself. I'm happy to be here with you guys.

Yes. As we sort of talked about lacking of star power outside of the main event, there weren't a ton of stakes here. We did get some story with Jose Aldo coming back, fighting in Rio. And the more I thought about this card, the more I realized, like, how important to this card, Jose Aldo was. And we'll get into his performance in the second.

But might as well just break it right out, Jedbushu. Let's get right to this. I asked the question earlier. It's a question we've still been debating ever since this card ended. Did Steve Erseng give away the UFC Flyway title in the final two minutes of this fight? Alexander Pintosha wins. Fun fight. Erseng was very competitive.

Landed some good shots. If we're talking pride rules and playground rules, Steve Ersig won that fight. but that's not how it works in the UFC, and that's not how it works in the sports round by round. Pantosia wins three rounds on two of the judges' cards and wins four on another. So the takedown attempt in the final half of the fifth round, did Steve Ursa give away the fight with that takedown attempt?

And we're never going to know. Like, yes, to some extent that directly led him losing the round. and on two of the three judges scorecards losing the fight. But it's not like he was dominating that round and then the takedown happened and suddenly the rounds over. It is just that in shooting the takedown, he initiated a scramble, which then let Pantosia control the back two and a half minutes, right?

And functionally win the bout. If he hadn't shot, it's entirely possible Pantosia just gets in on the hips later because it's not like Ersig was impossible to take down. Pants got him down a bunch of them. that fight. Pants was able to kind of just bully his way into clenches and then start hanging on the back and maybe sneak around to the waist, get a drag down, get an inside trip, get an outside reap. Like he had a different series of events that got there. So we can't ever say the like,

if he hadn't shot that takedown, Erick definitely wins. But it absolutely directly led to him losing. So it's a bit of both, right? Like it definitely blew it, but also it could have been blown anyway. And it's also possible that if he didn't, he was just would have lost the round. That round was very competitive and close. Neither man had really separated themselves. So bad move, yeah. But also, that's kind of the move you would expect from a dude who has three fights in the UFC. Like, he is just very green. And I don't think his coaches did him any favors. And so, like, sometimes experience shows in the worst way as possible at the worst moment. Ersig's clearly pretty down. But he's young enough. He'll probably be.

be back. So I don't know how that answers your question, but that's what I got for you. What do you think, New York, Rick? Is one of your biggest takeaways is that Steve Ersig, if he just didn't shoot that takedown in the final half of the fifth round, we're having a whole different conversation right now? I think he'll regret it. To Jed's point, like, I definitely don't think that was like a clear start to a round where Erseg was going to roll Pantosia. I think he won the fourth round and I think he had some momentum there and I think there are some opportunities

on the table if he hadn't done that but Pantosia is just too good at grappler it was interesting in the post fight Cormier asked Erseg like what he thought and what he was surprised by and he was surprised at how good Pantosia was in the scrambles and the exchanges

I mean if you're surprised by that like you haven't really been paying much attention and that might have cost you in the long run because he's one of the best at that. Like he's just so good there. And he will regret it probably because I think on the feet, it seemed like all the momentum was on his side. And it seemed like all the rounds that that primarily took place on the feet

or the moments of action that took place on the feet, he was doing more damage and he was doing better. And so to put it back into Pantosia's realm was a mistake. But again, to Jed's point, like we don't know how the rest of that round plays out. It was too early. it's hard to pin it to that one thing. And I think there's a lot of people out there who would say he won it anyway.

I think there's a lot of people who have scored rounds two, three, and four for Ersagan said he shouldn't have needed round five regardless. So it's too hard to pin it directly to that one specific action and that one specific instance. But I think he will regret not having kept it on the feet. So when you think back on this, Jed, like if we talk BTL on Thursday and I just straight. up ask you because look this card is going to be one of those ones that we're just going to quickly move on from because we got 302 coming up we get 303 they're going to st louis they're out of the apex and we just know how this new cycle works this is not one of those cards that we're going to be heavily debating you know for days after this event so i'll just ask you now if it's

not that what's your biggest takeaway from this fight when you look back upon it what did you take away the most from this main event was it from the pantosia side the ursac side what do you think. That's a really good question. I'll stay positive, is I think that I could go two ways and I'll try and go a little more positive. And it's just that Steve or six for real. Like, we knew that he was like a legitimate guy who had some actual abilities, right?

But when you've only had three fights in the UFC and one of those came against a replacement guy who isn't really well known in the first place, like it's hard to know really where you fit in, like where he just doesn't have the track record of a guy who, oh, like, definitely this guy's going to hang around for a long time, be a competitive top 10, top five sort of guy. And walking away from this fight, I think that things to improve on, absolutely. But some of the concerns I had from coming into this, I thought he showed improvement on those things. And like with a couple of tweaks, maybe a slightly better game plan, I think he could beat

Pantosia tomorrow. And so, you know, I could say some negative things about Pantosia and kind of where this is for him and sort of concerns maybe I have for him. But I think the better, more salient takeaway is just, hey, Steve Versaig is not like some flash on the pan. This is the dude who's going to be a top 15 flyweight for the foreseeable future. He's still only 28 years old, still getting better and has a lot of good ability. And we saw Steve Versaig have more success on the floor against Pantosia than Brayneur

Reval did. Brando Ravald didn't put up nearly the fight from the floor that Erseg did. So, you know, when Brandon Royvals is the number one. contender and ursag absolutely fought a better fight than what i filed it so we're talking about a top five dude and that's i mean that's pretty cool what do i do you knew you're correct biggest takeaway from this fight steve ursig belongs like steve ursac is is in uh this weight class and and legitimate and the kind of like feeling like he was ushered into this fight maybe undeservedly um has aged better like I feel like he is somebody who is going to be around for a bit

and somebody who put on a really good performance against somebody I rate very highly in Pantosia as a champion. You know, there's a, I feel like there could be an argument against Pantosia. Like he may not be the best in this division, but I think he's the most game. And I think he's up for the challenge of being the champion and has proven that. And so that, like some things still need to be sorted out in that division. and it will be interesting to see where it goes from here.

But I think Steve Ursaig has established himself. I didn't learn much new about Pantosia. Like he finds ways to win. That's kind of his M.O. He's in exciting fights. Another example of him being in an exciting fight. So I knew most of these things about Pantosia. I knew that when push came to shove, he would find ways to win.

And he did in that fifth round. On my card, I had one, three, and five for Pantosia. So not surprised to see that from him. More impressed with Erseg. was my major takeaway. Just feeling like, yeah, the guy's legit. And the guy, somebody that I think can can really hang in this division is going to be around for a bit. Yep.

Completely agree with both of those takes. Normally this is the time we'd be like, what's next for Pantosia, but Pantosia's taking a break, he said. He's fought three times in a year. He's got to take some time off. And I think the timing's perfect. We can let this kind of weird and insane flyweight division sort of play itself out. What's going to happen with Murabazi? What's going to happen with Mahama Kayaf, Minel Kopp, Brent Royval.

where's Brandon Moreno going to do? When is he coming back? And kind of just sort of let things play out, let the division play catch up. And then we'll see what will be next for Pantosia. So I have no problem with him taking some time off because I think the timing absolutely warrants it. But Jed, I know you want to talk about you're ready to talk about it. You're ready to talk about Anthony Smith, aren't you? The King of Rio.

Sure. No, I'm sure we'll get there. I'm sure we'll get there. But the goat in your eyes. You don't need to. He's the goat. He's the goat. Comes in there.

Comes in there with the crown of this freaking head, Jedmishu, walks out to the cage. Does Joseo although things to Jonathan Martinez, despite throughout the entire fight, you hearing the Rio fans chanting Feraldo, but even louder than that was Mark Montoya screaming at Jonathan Martinez, do something, volume, you need this round,

you have to do something. And Jose Al do just kept thumping him, just countering. The body shots are incredible. He's landing leg kicks. Had Martinez badly hurt in the third round, I thought he's about to get the finish. He basically chucks Jonathan Martinez somewhat lifeless body to the ground, which I think some people questioned.

But all in all, Jose Aldo wins all three rounds, sweeps the scorecards, and now free agent. But saying he might want to come back to the UFC, saying you want to have a conversation with Dana White, Hunter, Sean Shelby, et cetera. Your reaction to the King of Rio getting it done in his backyard. I mean, it was everything we wanted, right? I'm a, Jose Aldo is probably the second most important fighter to me in the history of

the sport. He is very real. Like, one of the reasons I got into the sport in the way that I did. I love him so much. I don't, we don't need to talk about some of the things his personal life. That's just, I don't care. I'm going to put the blinders on and not care at all about that part of him because he's the goat. And we just got to watch the goat do work.

And I don't even know how else to explain it other than that was awesome. I was exactly the fight I thought was going to happen. Some people were like Jonathan Martinez was shook by the moment. I don't know, kind of just looked like a normal Jonathan Martinez fight, except for the fact that he's fighting against the best defensive fighter in history. And that's really hard for most people to fight. Like how many people have beaten Joe, Jose Aldo. Here's the answer. Only like all-time great fighters. That's it. And Connor

McGregor. A bunch of all-time great fighters and Connor. That's it. Those are the only dudes who've ever beaten him. And they also like had some clear physical advantages over him, aka being enormous compared to Jose or whatever. It's just not Jonathan Martinez's game. He is not a high-volume striker like Max Holloway is. So like this is what was going to go. This was a really well-made fight to give Jose Aldo a chance to perform. And we talked about this on Slack a bunch. It's not like Jose was washed, man. Like he should have beaten Marab Davalishvili, who's like in many eyes,

many people's eyes the best band of weight in the world. Like at elevation on short notice, like he's, yeah, he is old. Absolutely, he is not in his prime and hasn't been for some time. But when you are a true all-time great, when you are someone like Anderson Silva, Jose Aldo, you can aid. gracefully because you're that damn good and he is that damn good yeah Rick describe what you watched tonight from Jose Aldo first fight in 632 days yeah Josie Alder performance he turned back the clock right and and we were talking about this a little bit before we went

live on air like I never really thought Jose Aldo was like quote unquote washed I never really thought the performances from Aldo looked that bad um we talked about like what are worst ones, right? Like Marlon Marais is probably one of the worst Josiah Losses in recent memory. Marab, you could say, it was certainly one side to a certain degree, but like stuffed all the takings from one of the most aggressive and like high-paced fighters in the UFC. I never, I just never really thought like Josie Aldo had fallen off too far. So I was not surprised like in a major way to see this performance. I certainly thought Martinez would look a little bit better. I thought this matchup was a little closer.

And Aldo just dominated him. So yeah, it was nice to see like a vintage, Jose Aldo performance. But it wasn't like shocking to a high degree. Maybe I'm, you know, maybe there's people out there who thought he had fallen off a little bit further and it would have been more surprising. But it was just a really solid like, hey, I'm still one of the best guys ever, period. I cannot go along with the nonsense of being the goat. It's just unfortunately not true.

Love Jose Aldo, just not true. But one of the best guys ever. and still a capable and competitive fighter in the later part of his career, which is extremely impressive. So let's, Chad, I kind of had a feeling the finger is going to be up there. I mean, it's just silly.

Read the board. I don't know what else to say. Read the board. Someone turned this into a beam. So boarding for flight 246 to Toronto is delayed 50 minutes. Oh, what? Sounds like Ojo time. Play Ojo.

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your travel bug, but your taste buds too. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Conditions apply. I guess honestly, the biggest question to come out of this fight card altogether, and I'll ask you, Jed, if you were, if you had a like significant say on how this all plays out, what's next for Joe Zialdo? Is this next fight in the UFC? Is it?

Come on. GFL? Is it BKFC? what are we doing here? I will be deeply upset if this man goes to PFL like the co-leader

we ain't we ain't doing that nonsense with the co-leader man look go box somebody go do that that's because that's clearly

what he's setting up Josie out there's a man who's a smart man and I was like oh I'd love to come back to you see I got to talk Dana because I got to see if they got the prices right

you know like they got hit my numbers is what he's saying and that's fair. And I don't know if the UFC's going to want to do that, but I think Jose Aldo moving into boxing, doing that would be terrific. This wouldn't be a bad way at all to end his amendment maker.

And if he does want to stay, some people are going to be upset about. I'll give a flying hoot. Just a title fight. Just put a minute. Let's show him out of Josaldo. We're doing it. I don't care.

He should have beat Maraub. Who gives a shit? It's fine. Just run it. Like let's just do that. because let's just allow us to have good things. Merritt's out the window. We already gave up on merit forever ago,

so at least let's do the fun thing where Jose Aldo gets to fight for a title. Will he lose? Probably, I won't say 100%, but probably O'Malley's not a great style matchup for him at this point of his career. But fight would be dope as hell. So it's that.

Or I will also accept, even though I don't actually know if Jose would accept this at this point, because he shouldn't. frankly, but I would accept Dominic Cruz. Like, you can fight Dominic Cruz because, like, that's just a fight that's supposed to happen. And I'm always happy to sign up for watching Dominic Cruz get his ass beat. So we could do that one if you're not going to do the other things.

But I would say primarily you go to boxing, make a bunch more money than you make in the U.C and kind of end MMA on this happy note, King of Rio, et cetera. But if you are dead set on coming back and it kind of feels like he is, title fighter Cruz, that's all I want. I don't give flying hell to watch him fight anyone else in the Bannamweight Division. It means nothing to me. What about you near, Rick? What would you do?

What would you like to see for Jose Aldo? So what I'd like to see for myself, what I would personally prefer to see is Jose Aldo continue to fight in MMA. Because as I said, like, I don't think he's at a point where I'm concerned about that. I think he can still fight at a very high level. And I just am more, he's an MMA fighter. Like, that's what I'm interested in. I care more about MMA and I care more about him fighting in MMA because that's what I enjoy.

What I think he'll ultimately do is go box because there's just so much more money. This is the chapter's over. He got his final fight on his UFC contract. He had already retired. It seems to me like this is a very clear indication of like, hey, let's just knock this one extra fight off the contract. Now we're done. And I can go box.

And he's mentioned Floyd Mayweather, which it seems like he had a potential agreement to fight. previously and is calling the name Manny Pachiao now. So those are just bigger fights than he's going to get in the UFC. I don't imagine he will get Sean O'Malley, although that's interesting. I wouldn't hate it. I would rather see him fight MMA, but ultimately I predict and expect that he will go box. You're probably right.

But Josie Aldo, big free agent now. I expect even the co-leader to make a phone call and show out a whole bunch of money. So this is the co-leader. There's the co-leader right there. Don't go to the co-leader, Jose. Two million to fight. That's what you offer Jose Ldo, if you're PFL. Then go to the co-leader. Yeah, that's what you should do. Do that. If they're going to offer you that, go to the co-leader. They got unlimited money right now, apparently. So pay him $2 million and just put him on the pay-per-view cards. Him versus, damn dude, like him versus Apache Mix would be a whole hell of a lot of fun. So, sign me the hell up for that if they want to do that.

I would enjoy that. Yeah, that'd be incredibly fun. But we'll see what ends up happening. And congratulations to Jose Aldo, now the hottest free agent in the game. Anthony Smith gets the gilly, shuts a lot of people up, kind of checks Vitor Petrito a little bit, who was 11 and 0 heading into that fight, called out Anthony Smith after he's went over Tyson Pedro.

Vitor's looking pretty decent on the feet, shoots take down, Anthony locks up a gilly. You kind of felt like if any of the big favorites are going to lose, seemed like Vito Petrino was the one you had your eye on. Michelle Pereira did Michelle Pereira things. Sub one minute, standing gilly drops him, does a freaking backflip. Shin hits the face of Ehor Potia area as he sort of kickflips Pereira in the air, mid-backflip, mid-moon salt.

There was a discussion amongst the referees and some of the commission members. This is a DQ? Is it going to be a no contest? What are we doing here? Ultimately, the windstands. via submission for Michelle Pereira. And then Kyle Barallo knocks out Paul Craig to start the main card. We had Joe Anderson Brito with a weird stoppage, which we're probably going to get to it a little bit.

Yasmin Lucindo gets to win. Mick Debec Oral Obai just continues to rain terror in this sport. Chircar close, kind of a scary third round for him, but ultimately he hangs on to beat Joachim Silva, Marisha Huffie, Deona Barbrosa, Ishmael Bonfim, Alessonra Costa, all get wins. So before we go to the peeps, Jed, let me ask you, outside of the top two fights, who is your MVP for UFC 301? Come on. You said outside of the top three, right? Yeah.

I mean, I figured. I want you to talk about. There ain't a question. I mean, we all knew this coming in, right? Like, he had to do it for the culture. He had to do it for the country. The fact that the UFC and Ducks show. Hulu into the Hall of Fame announces his induction immediately before E.O. Porteara walks to the cage.

The man who in that very arena two years ago slept him, didn't really sleep, but knocked him out and then danced over him in the final fight of Shogun's career. That's the man who didn't understand the assignment. Jonathan Martinez understood the assignment. You go in there, you lose to the guy we want you to lose to because that's what you're supposed to do. Ehor didn't get that memo and then worse yet, sucks, so it's not like you even get anything by him killing the corpse of Shogun. He had to suffer for his sins. He was forced to pay penance, and that penance came in the form of Michel Paheta, my medium adult son. And a medium adult son was dope and everyone loved him.

And it doesn't matter that he cheated his ass off and that was a wildly illegal knee to the head of a downed opponent. Because that wildly illegal knee came during a backflip cartwheel. card pass and immediately after he choked the man unconscious and he did it in 60 seconds in his last since moving to middle weight do you know how long michelle bear has been in the cage combined the answer is a little over three minutes three minutes and one second three fights three up three to baby demolador knew the job go in there make him pay do it for shogun and he did it it was it Should he have gotten the win? Probably not.

Do any of us care? No. Rule of cool, baby. Answer stands. Easily should win all the performance bonuses and easily the hero of the evening other than Josie Aldo. Yeah, Greg. What other performance stood out to you that is not Michelle Pereira? Yeah, Anthony Smith.

Like, I think, unlike, I mentioned earlier that I don't think we've seen of rapid decline in Josealdo's performances. I definitely started to feel like Anthony Smith was on the wrong side of it. and he picked up a big win. And no matter how you feel about where he ranks in this division, for one, this division absolutely stinks. And there's really not like great contenders in it. And for two, Alex Pereira continues to say his name. They have built something here, right?

There is a back and forth that is continuing to happen. And I could very easily see a world where he's sliding into an opportunity at some point in the near future. So it's good to be Anthony Smith after that win, to be honest. So yeah, Anthony Smith stood out to me as somebody who I think put himself in some real nice position after 301. No bonus for Anthony Smith. Now we're switching hats. How many frigate hats do you have, Jed?

I've been amusing myself by swapping hats every time. You got away from me. Several members of the chat have also figured out my guys. game and I've been having a great time. Look, you got to make your own fun and I'm not here to tell you this night was the best night we've ever had covering the sport. But it was fun enough and this is

amusing me, so just go with it. Yeah, we had fun tonight. As did Michelle Pereira, who will have some more fun, $50,000 bonus for him. No fight of the night, by the way. Maricio Hoofy gets a bonus. Kyle Barallo, Alessandro Costa. No Anthony Smith.

Even though he was like a plus 400 underdog, no performance bonus for Anthony. They'll probably take care of them. I'm sure they will. I'm sure they will. The UFC loves to give fighters extra money. That's just what they do. Let's go to the people.

See what the peeps have to say and Casey as well. Hello, Casey. Hi. Fun night. Fun night. I enjoyed myself. That's fun. It was fun.

The UFC hate submissions. The UFC hate submissions. They do not give. They rarely give you a performance bonus for submission. They hate submissions. So that was why Anthony Smith and I get it. Yeah, but Pererick. I got one.

Is it because of the flip? Oh, yeah. Yes. And he had a backflip car wheel guard pass and then choked him unconscious. It was sick. You're right, though. They don't like submissions. Anthony Smith finished a guillotine that was handed to him on a platter.

Not taking that away from him. Good, good on you, bud. But like, Perez is objectively better. You know why he didn't get, you know why to get performance bonus? I was watching the watch party. with you and heck and Connor and you guys were so unimpressed by that submission

y'all just went you guys were like what was that it was such bad fighting from vtor pretrito like it was obviously like the worst possible thing he could have done and Anthony's just like what okay I was knocked the microphone over just thinking about that

he's just like oh look at look at his head it's right underneath my armpit. Let me just, yeah, and it was over. We knew it was over the second of that happened. Like, why would you do that? Well, that's what I'm saying. I think, I think the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, that's my, that's my only guess. That's my only guess. Because it should have gotten it, of course, but, no, but. I would have given it to him over Ruffy, but. Oh, I don't, but, I know what I can talk about him at all, but like, roughly was kind of my MVP in the

in the sense that I didn't know who he was and he really impressed me. In that sense, I didn't know. I just didn't know who he was. I was like, wow, he looked good. The Connor stuff is kind of weird. He looks like, but I really liked the way he just looked good. It looked really good. I get it.

There's worse gimmicks. He's got the, he's got the bladed like karate stance. Like, yeah, I'm okay with that ride that. Yeah. Yeah. Jamie Malarkey might be the MVP because he's like the perfect. Just getting knocked out. Jamie Laughey should be employed forever.

Yeah. Yeah. He should never find him in. He gets knocked out so well. That's what he hear. Also, Casey, way to let me know you don't read my contender series breakdowns. That hurts my feelings. Because you would know about Ruffy from my contingency's breakdowns.

Are people still reading? Is that a thing? Jeez. All right. Super chats. All right, let's go. Super Dave. Enough already with the hats, Jed.

Okay. Let's have a lot of fun, guys. That's having a lot of fun. Why does that one hate fun? I just wanted to see if people in the chat would notice and they noticed immediately. They noticed immediately. Alex Erseg versus KKF on the Perth card, really cement top five status. Someone's going to sleep.

Spoiler, it's KKF. Sure. If that's what they want to do. Australia versus New Zealand. I mean, I think that that fight bangs. So I'm pro that fight. That fight would be awesome. When is Perth?

I don't. when it's August Perth okay okay that makes a kidding yeah I don't know

if I agree with the rest of this but that fight bang so I'm super pro that though I actually would also say that's too soon for her sake

like he fought eight weeks before this like that's a quick doing that again after five rounds like you might want to take a little time I think he's going to try to fight in Perth yeah he probably will Steve Ersing versus Middall Cop

Love that idea That's the thing I think if you're gonna have Ersig fight in Perth Then give him a can Just let him Let him rebound I know the UFC doesn't do that

And won't But like That would be my My manage of this I wonder if he would want Somebody highly ranked though You know Like I think he wants

He almost certainly wants that Everyone says they want that But I don't care what he wants Yeah I might not be the smart thing We're like What do I give a shit What he wants

Actually, before we go to Super Chats, I want to talk about this one from Mr. Joseph Boza. Is Steve a top five flyway? He will be in my rankings. I'll tell you that right now. Yep. Let me just take a quick look. I think it's very likely he will move into our flyway top five after, which will come tomorrow or Monday. I would say it's very likely.

He'll be in my top five. He'll be in my five. Yeah, probably. Probably. Yeah. He just had a substantially better fight with the champion than Brandon Reval, who I think is like unanimously top three for us. Not sure yet. Not sure yet, but I have no arguments against it, though.

All right. All right. Super chat from Super Dave, Fairtex. Is this the MMA nerd team? Is the MMA nerd team the team of the future? I like what they're doing They're putting on good fights and winning and also the branding really works They've got a gimmick love a gimmick

A gimmick with DC in the cage with the glasses is perfect Like people are meming it all over it really works Like it can be that simple sometimes So yeah I do think they're they're sitting on something for sure Also they're fighting nerds not MMA nerd team fighting there and they probably would have had a better one too if Gene Silva

hadn't been forced off the guard because Gomy tried to die on the scale yeah and shout out to Kyle Boralia for doing doing the right thing with the microphone

I like the canton air callout that's not doo-doo Mike's not official Mike hey come on you know the rule Mike we don't say that name I said what I said.

I have no regrets at all. But good call. He's booked. He's not booked. That ain't official. I thought he was booked. Someone said he was booked. I thought he was booked.

He ain't booked. I don't know. That's still bad because we don't say that name. We don't say that name. He who shall not be named has reportedly been slated to headline UFC Louisville against Nasherdine Mavov. Well, if it's not, I may fight. You guys know the golden rule.

If it's on MEPfighting.com, it ain't real. So there you go. I'm not saying it won't happen, but it's on our website. That's all we need to say. We continue on. All right. Also, I don't know if you're going to pull this up, Casey, but I saw it at some point in there. Trevor Leggett, 20 months of a subscriber.

Way to go, Trevor. Let's go. You go, Trevor. Oh, I was like. Lazy bed. Why did the ref Diddle Shores leghole? not cool that was super weird

that was a bad stoppage that was a bad stoppage that was a bad stoppage what do you mean what do you mean my dad red bad doctor that was the guy who he said this cut his leg is broken he's not fighting Jack Shore Jack Shore that's what we're talking about right yeah Jack sure's leg cut I thought that was just that was just a bad

and his leg apparently was not broken per yeah some other statement so yeah his dad This dad said no, no damage. They gave him some stitches and sent them home. So it would appear to be a bad stoppage. It doesn't seem like it was a good one. Bad.

That's all. I mean, I saw, I saw a guy shove his finger through the leg of a man, which I haven't really seen before. So. Yeah, but that's superficial. I mean, like, if there's damage, if there's damage, you can, yeah, if you want to shove fingers into open cuts,

you can do that any time you won't. I mean, that's it. There's like a legit bit of hole in this shin. Like it was, but there's not fidesics, Michael. There's holes all over the body. And you can stick.

This is true. This is true. And everything's going to be outside. I honestly, I'm not entirely sure which direction you all are coming in this room from. To me, you're just a medical professional. And shouldn't be jamming your fingers into that hole.

Like, I don't care. about the, like, you can just look at it and be like, that is a hole. You don't need to see how deep it is with your own finger. It's like, that's a hole right there. I'm not a doctor, so I don't know if there's a medical reason to be shoving your finger in there. I can't speak to that part of it. But what I can speak to is if he was not compromised, then what is the stoppage for?

Yeah. Like, his leg was fine. So what was the stoppage? It was weird to, and it was actually cut. It wasn't fine. Let's choose a different word than fine. What was not fine about it? It had a cut.

What was a hole in it? Is that dangerous? No, it's not. It's not. I mean, it's not not dangerous. I don't think it's not. They told him how it's a deeping hole on his head.

The doctor wanted to stuck his finger in his forehead and we're like, oh, geez, I can see your brain. I'm really jamming it in there. I'm not saying this topage is good. I'm just saying choose the word better because his leg clearly isn't fine. His leg was acceptable maybe. Fine is not a fight. It was not a fight stoppage cut. So it was odd.

I think we're all pretty clear on, on. Yeah. What we're talking about here. And the aesthetics from the aftermath either. There was no protest. Let me ask a question. Not for sure. Okay.

He just stood there and was like, okay. Well, I mean, if you want to go like, I don't think that that's, that's no. He was asked if you wanted to continue and said, his team said, I want to continue. Yeah. Well, that's a legitimate question. Let me ask this. Oh, sorry.

Let me ask this because I want to see, because I, this is not me making a point. It's me actively asking a question. Let's say that, uh, Jack Shore, instead of getting a cut on his shin, got stabbed. Like, just like, actually got stabbed. It happened. Like, I don't know what it happened. Are we fine with that continuing? If he's just like, I could fight through it.

Like he got stabbed like Dalton and Roadhouse get stabbed outside the barcase. see this is cinema is his muscle or bone or something structural compromised if not if it's a stab and he has a cut yeah keep fighting keep fighting i don't have any idea what was or wasn't compromised i'm not a medical doctor so right but you're asking i'm just trying to find out if that's okay if there is i understand your argument it is just weird though that someone like a big hole can fight yeah yeah that's just fighting that's what we watch Like, yeah, that's, that's what it's. You're confusion.

I got to be honest. Like, we see. Because like, he isn't. He isn't, he's not falling out or anything. No, but we stop fights for cuts. Like typically because there, any of the big gashes that reveal like skull, that's not going to do anything worse. Like, that's not going to kill. The skull's up here.

The legs down here. Yeah, there's a difference. I'm aware of those. Well, that's what I'm saying. You're saying you're saying a cut in the skull. That's not. No, it's not a cut in the leg. No, but why is that different?

Like, that's not any more structurally damaging than a cut in the leg. Yeah. It's just on the head as opposed to being on the leg. Yeah, it is different. It's on the leg. It's like, but no, to tell, I deetically explain to me why that cut is going to lead to much more long. There's different structures and things that are happening here in the face that are not

happening in the foot that are important to preserve, right? Like, the leg is different. permanent there's no permanent like you get there is like permanent like permanent lifelong damage for cuts on the face especially if the eyes and the lips and stuff and you have bad cuts around the face they will stop around the lips and the lips and eyes but otherwise because a lot of times you hear when they do stop it for cuts like that they're like oh this could have affected your eye your vision things that are like important to continue to fight there are those but there are also just ones who are like oh that's just a really gnarly gash and this fight is over most of those don't get stopped yeah i i i don't

Honestly, I just don't give a shit about this one. I'm fine. I do. I do give a shit about it because I, it was injustice to Jack Shore. And I know we don't care about Jack Shore, but I'm just talking. If we do care about him, then I think that sucks for him. It was a bad stoppage. I think it was about, yeah.

Yeah. I mean, I knew as soon as I saw it, as soon as I saw it, I'm like, fights over. They're stopping it. I knew immediately. They said because the dog, and even they said it on the air, they said they did it because they thought there was a leg fracture. It's like he's walking on.

After the fact, though. They said after they read the decision in the post-fight interview was done. Because we found out. Because we don't interview the doctor in the cage that we didn't know. So we had to go through that. But I knew as soon as I saw the cut, they were stopping the fight. Like I was like, this fight's over. They're not letting him continue.

There's no chance. They're going to let this man. Because it was what? Too deep? Because it was just like too bad a visual. It looks like he got shot in the leg. And like that was what it looks like on television. It looks like you got shot in the shin.

And there's a hole in his leg. That's a cut stop. Via gnarly. It was just gross. Yeah, it was just weird. It was like, I don't know. I say it's unprecedented, but how many, like, it pretty much is unprecedented. I think we only found, we don't.

That's why I'm not. Only one other, well, maybe only one other cut I've seen on a leg cut from checking a kick where they've stopped the fight. I can't. There's a couple other, because it's crazy posted about it, but it is certainly not common. Yeah. And this one wasn't bad enough. It was just like, yeah, it looks gnarly, but this is a gnarly sport. Right.

But I just, that's, that's, it's weird. That's what we're doing here. We are beating the crap out of people. You know, that's the sport. So as well, I didn't like the stoppage. And, yeah, that's all. I can live with the explanation that he thought something was fractured. Now, would I like for something to actually be fractured if you're going to make that determination?

Certainly. Like, that just feels like, uh, jump them down on one foot. Cool, legs not broken. You're good. If that's the explanation, I'm not sure. That's how we should test that case. Yeah, maybe not. Maybe if your legs broken.

Your bone might be broken. He was clearly walking. He was fine. We've seen thousands of fights. I was just like, all right. I'm with you. I'm with you. I think it was unfortunate for Jack.

Unfortunate is the right word. Unfortunate is the right word. All right. Super Jets. It's hockey season and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get a nice rank on Uber Eats. But iced tea,

cream or just plain old ice? Yes, we deliver those. Goaltenders, no. But chicken tenders, yes. Because those are groceries, and we deliver those too. Along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. This episode is brought to you by Peloton. A new era of fitness is here. Introducing the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus, powered by Peloton IQ. for breakthroughs with personalized workout plans, real-time insights, and endless ways to move.

Lift with confidence, while Peloton IQ counts reps, corrects form, and tracks your progress. Let yourself run, lift, flow, and go. Explore the new Peloton cross-draining tread plus at OnePeloton.ca. Crimson Chin. Ursa got robbed. Sure should have been able to continue. Brazil crowd sucked.

I don't know if the Brazil crowd sucked. They were way better. than 283, way better than 283. Yeah, it was just, Madonna's in town. What do you want? Madonna runs this town. Herseg.

Hersey, for sure, they didn't get robbed. I don't care about the short thing, sure. And the crowd was not that fun, but also, frankly, good on Rio. Like, I respect you for not just lapping up the dog shit you got fed. So it wasn't a very good card. This was a fine card. We enjoyed ourselves.

this was one of the weaker pay-per-view offerings the U.S.C.'s put forth, and the people of Rio responded correctly. The way that you are supposed to respond to incentives like this. Like, that's how theoretically capitalism would work. Oh, you're providing us an inferior product. We're going to go see Madonna instead. That seems like a better use of our time and energy. And so you get different fans, and it's not quite the same reaction because that's what you've seen bought paid for with this card. Yeah, that's exactly right.

Right. If we're going to compare this to like the cards of the past and how crazy the Brazilians went for it, I would point you to the actual card and then say it's commensurate. Like this was, the crowd was fine because the crowd was three quarters or less full or whatever the final result ended up being because the card wasn't that strong. And they were appropriately excited for that, as Jed kind of said. Like it was fine. If they didn't have Jose Aldo on this card, they probably would have like 4,000 people in the building. Yeah, it was done. Yeah. Yeah.

The last time the UFC went to this arena, it had Glover to Cher, Jamal Hill, Brandon Moreno, Davidson Figurito, 4, or whichever one that one was, was four, right? Gilbert Burns, Jessica Androge, Johnny Walker, Shogun. Look at the difference between those two cards. And that will explain to you the difference in the crowds. Yeah, even like the best of the best. Like previous trips to Brazil have been even stronger than that. So, yeah, this was just.

That's fine. What was what it was? The 283 crowd was like not into it at all because they were pride like most of the fans that would go and make the noise. And I don't know what the ticket prices were for this one. I assume there were far less than 283 was. But most of those people were like priced out of the building. So it just wasn't the same sort of ambiance. There's a little bit more of that tonight.

It felt a little more like Rio-esque as opposed to 283, but still not. Not great. Not great. This is a fight night card. like yeah it's a fight it was there was only one top 10 fighter on according to our rankings on the entire card so which is pantosia i mean certainly it seems like urs egg will now right yeah or so afterwards yeah it's commensurate with that but he hadn't done it yet yeah yeah yeah i guess that's true yeah that's and we call those fight night cards although although they're

there were well there were plenty of top 50 fighters on this but yeah yeah yeah top 50s he's on a thing. It's top 10. It's definitely a thing. We ran out. I know. I'm just a top 10. It just sounds better. Top 15. Oh, our friend Achilles Jr. Oh, yay. Do you all see Michelle being a top fiveish contender? Bredo also Rick Suckett, Jed, you have a mullet L. Wow. I love how he asks questions and it's just like mic drop. So let's go. It's usually not. It's usually not. It's usually not mic drop. We usually get like three or four of these and I'm hoping we get a few more. So yeah, keep coming. Yes.

Yes. No. I have no comment on what Rick does. And this isn't a bullet pretty obviously, you idiot. It's not short in the front. My hair is just brushed back. It's just long hair. I don't know what to tell you. Wait, is he, so is Michelle not even ranked?

He's not even like in a ranking? No. He hasn't fought. You're in the top 15. I know, but like, some guys have kind of like not fought anybody and lost two and are still in the top 15. It's kind of weird. I think he could break it this time after this win. Michelle just moved to middleweight and he beat Petroski and Olexeychuk who weren't ranked guys.

Yeah, I mean, he will certainly get a rank. Who you bumping out? Who you bumping out, Mr. Jackman? Do, do, if Michelle's going up there, he bummed. jumping out. Let's see a look at my rankings. On the UFC's rankings, like, like Paul. I don't know, whatever.

I'm looking at USC's because I'm just like. Oh, yeah. Craig's out of there. Good answer. I don't know. Jackramansons leaving my rankings. There's just, it doesn't feel like these rankings are very strong and he's kind of been like on fire at middleweight.

So I would have seen, I could have seen he was in the top 15, but I'm okay with the answer that like he just didn't. didn't do enough yet. Is he going to be top five? Yeah, I don't know about that, man. I don't know about that. He just has a propensity to do such dumb and amazing and wonderful shit. And you just like can't do that.

Don't you talk about my medium-sized adult son like that? It's dumbest, what's incredible, most amazing, like, bow at his feet type shit. And it's just not how you become a top fighter in the sport. Disagree. It's dope. So we're clear When the guy you think was goat was actually good

He was doing insane stupid shit And then he just like I'm gonna jab and poke people in the eyes And be boring as sin Like being crazy is awesome And Michelle Pahara is awesome He's awesome I'm not arguing now

We talk to a billion animal husbandry experts Scientists doctors lawyers Chickens ain't goats The math is real The science is real You don't believe in science I can't stop you. Chickens ain't goats.

Michelle Behear, be fucking nuts because it's way cooler. And my personal nirvana, I've now been calling for this for roughly a year, is Michelle Behaer versus Drickus DuPlessy doing real stupid silly stuff at each other. It would be so much fun. One day somebody's going to make you like stake your reputation on some of these things. Like there's just so much, there's just so much sad. They're like, like Michelle Pereira's top five. I got to worry about, buddy.

Yeah, yeah. That's your point. I've gone a while. I'm Kendrick in this bitch. You can't, I am bulletproof. Fair point. I can't wait to, I can't out wait to match break for Michelle Pereira and onto the next one tomorrow morning because I got the one.

Oh, do I got the one? Is it drink is two plusy? No. No, it is not. Okay, but do we, does Michelle, does he get a giant jump up? Like, does he get like, or do we do this like one step at a time? type thing or just for Jedd. I think you do launch him up fairly high just because you kind of can.

I'm bad about the whole like who's booked against what or whatever because I don't have a podcast where I do that for for living. But it will also kind of depend if they're going to let Barrio get up, right? Because he called for he shall not be named. If they give him that, then also giving Michelle like a huge bump is pretty tough. Um, I don't think of Michelle, the loser of Costa Whitaker. Wow. I mean, that is just such a massive jump, like insanely high jump.

But to the rankings point, like, Hamza beat a welterweight, Kamar Usman and is like 11 in the UFC's ranking. So like, we just had a title fight of a guy who was ranked 10 in the UFC. It wasn't even our top 10 and almost won the belt tonight. So I don't, a giant jump up in competitions, maybe it's time. It does feel like. Whitaker, Wittaker Costa area might be too quick, but I don't know, whatever. I would be pretty down to watch him fight Paula Costa. That would be pretty fun.

If it just goes out, it gets thumped up bad by Sean Strickland, then I don't have a problem with it. Oh, that's right. Sorry, it's Strickland Costa, not Whitaker and Costa. Sorry, what I said? Hattahs at home. Pomp's right. Yeah, no, I give him the loser of Strickland Costa. I don't want him to fight.

I don't care about his like elevation. I want fun fights for DeMolador because he's fun. I got it. Don't worry about it. Listen on. What is? Yeah, that's, you have your own thing. I got it.

I got it. You'll see. It's the right fight. It's the perfect fight. I have ideas too, but. What do you got? What do you got? I mean, the perfect fight is Jerkis.

It's so much. I need, I now need Jikis to lose. the belt so he can just fight for like it would be so silly who would you pick easy what's here yours what's the right one I'm down for a giant jump up in competition

and Michelle Pereira versus Hugh should not be named oh okay so he so Pio who's ranked doesn't get him no he gets someone he gets someone someone

Ohio gets Jackramansen. That's the one. That's an apex main event if you're everyone's one. Honestly, that actually makes more sense. This division is, is. Michelle's cooler than Kai. He's got to deal with it. He is, yes.

That I couldn't argue. Like, certainly. I agree with that. I agree with that. All right. I'm the one I wanted him rank. You guys were like, oh. No, I was explaining why it wasn't.

I'm going to be ranking this one. Probably. higher than I should. Oh, God. Oh, we got one of those rankings. All right. It's like your goat thing. You're, you know, you're taking somebody who's not there and putting them higher.

I get it. Understood. Well, I don't know what to tell you, man. You come back with any scientist that will tell you that chickens are genetically goats. Our sin, but it has been very clearly established to me by the scientific. Well, you're just, you know, you're just arguing why John Jones would not. be goat. You're not really like, thereby proving that Aldo is.

But I mean, that's a whole other. I mean, the sign says it. Yeah, yeah. Got it. Is it? Also, he's been a top five fighter for 20 years. No one does that. John Jones. At that weight class. John Jones is not a real weight class.

Five fighter for 20 years. By the way. We're not talking about John Jones. We're not talking about John Jones. Do you think John Jones is 45? He's not. No, but. So how long has it been?

It's like 16 years. He's still got a few more, but also there was a big gap in there. That's pretty good. He retired because he lost to Dominic Reyes. He did. Yeah. Jose Aldo retired too.

It's fine. That's good. Jose Aldo never lost the Dominic Reyes. It was bad. John Jones never lost. So I watched that. Sure lost it on the Graham. Earlier when you said,

earlier when you were like, you were like, you're like, Who beat who how many people have beat Joe Zealdo? The answer is eight. The answer is actually eight people. Eight people or eight times he's lost because Max Holloway actually did it twice. So he's lost to good fighters. He didn't lose to Dominic Reyes.

Well, John never lost. So I mean, that kind of like put that in the head. I mean, I have eyeballs. I didn't. But I have eyeballs. Just didn't. Didn't lose. I didn't know you didn't have eyeballs.

That's tough. That's a tough team for you. Gentlemen, before we went live, I thought we got on our John Jones out of us. Next question. It's just so crazy. I mean, it's just. All right.

Real quick. We're done. How the hell did we get there with that question? Like, none of those guys are even in the question. Jen said something in the middle and then I went back to it. Pereira versus Deleuze. I don't hate that idea.

Yeah, that could be fun. It probably makes more sense, but yeah. Yeah, all right. Just keep bringing Ehor to Brazil to get lamped by Brazilians. I like this idea. Yeah, that's a good. Yeah, we'll agree on that one. Alex, this time.

Do you were the seats after the Aldo fight, 75%. I don't know. There's still people there. I didn't fit. It was definitely emptied out. It definitely emptied out like a visual, a visible amount. Did it? Oh, wow.

Not like, I didn't even drop back that. Yeah. But he knew that was going to happen. It's, yeah. Josiah out of the show. But I think they were dead, they were dead, dead quiet. for the walkouts and the introductions for the main event. And then by like halfway through the first round,

the crowd started getting up for it because they're like, all right, this could be fun as hell. Cantosius from Rio. So that kind of stinks. I don't love that. I wish it was different. But I mean,

it is what it is. They were there for Aldo. Well, I think this kind of goes back to more on the UFC. And we're talking a little bit on online, on Slack with Kui about this. The UFC just has not created new Brazilian stars that are under 30. they just haven't.

And this is actually, I don't know if it's a problem. Maybe UFC doesn't care, but at least in the Brazilian MMA scene doesn't seem there are just no one. There's obviously lots of talent, but just not stars. Not under 30,

but wouldn't have been amazing if Alex Pereer was headlining this card and, you know, could have made a feel special and more important. That would have been nice. Not under 30, but. Ferreira Hill's main event

would have been amazing. It's been perfect. Yeah. Great. Card would have been so good. All those are just the feature fight instead of the co-main. It's ideal. That's what I scored it.

I don't have any issues with the 4-1 scoring. For Pantoja, I think that's fine. I expected it to be 3-2s Pantosia all the way around. The official M.A fighting score card is 3-2. I'm not married to it, but that's how I scored it real-time. 2-3-4. Yeah, I had round three for Pantosia. Oh, Mike, I think you're on mute.

You go first, though. Oh, you're not. I just can't hear you, Mike. I don't know what happened to your microphone. Now you are muted. Adrian Pereira is not the biggest star in MMA. He's a very big star. He's also not under 30 by like any stretch and was a star prior to coming to the UFC.

So like, just context clues, bro. It's okay. I scored round three for for Pantosia. I certainly like you have to track that elbow and that was. one of the the most damaging strike to the fight, but I think Pantoja did enough throughout the rest of the round that I was okay with scoring it for him. But yeah, big elbow.

Like, no doubt you have to note that. I've been trying to figure that out lately. Go on. I've just been trying, I've been thinking about that lately because like the elbow is functionally the reason. So I thought the round was relatively competitive. Without the elbow, it definitely goes to Pantosia. but like, I don't know, he took a half pint of blood out of him.

That feels like that's probably more damaging than whatever Pantosia did the rest of the round. I think it could be argued. I think that's, it certainly can. It's like, half pint of blood is a lot of blood. I didn't. I don't. Oh, he said, real quick. Mike, is your audio not working?

Mike, can you hear me, Mike? Talking to you, Mike? Yeah, he can. Your audio isn't working because. you did start talking. We can't hear you. What about now? Oh, no. He's back.

I hear you. We're going through the headphones now. I don't know. All right. Yeah. I don't know what happened. Okay. You're good now.

All right, cool. Just check it. Just, I want to get that settled. I don't know what we're talking about. We were talking about a round three. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I thought. Yeah. I thought one, two, four, and five were pretty clear. I thought they were pretty clear rounds. Three was the toss-up round. but I have no issue with Pantosia getting the third round. But I thought the other four rounds are pretty easy to score.

I wouldn't have had an issue really either way on two. If you give Pantosia 2, I would have been fine with that, which I think KCU did. But yeah, I agree. No, no, I actually, I had one judge. I had 4-1 Pantosia, but I acknowledge that two and three were very. saying like you gave pantosia the second i don't have any issues that with that being that way either yeah then it's fine i think anything from three to two urseg to four one pantosia is totally fine do to do i uh we didn't hop how do you guys choose who hosts what show um we're told who hosts it

and then we show up and host it and it's that simple i mean mike hosts most everything if mike is available and if not it's usually me or sheen yeah and then once in a while like i'll punded on some things like we did for 300 uh killies is back john jones technically didn't lose but you know who did valentina 285 actually actually technically john jones did lose so yeah i don't know that is right that's just like a stone miss oh boy achilles you know what i'm gonna back my boy akyllis here um just spot on. Like, this is what I need you to bring every single time. Thank you. Thank you for speaking some truth. You know who did lose, Habib. Never lost. Yeah, God. And then he walked away after like he finally started having real fights. Oh, wow. No, you should definitely shame a man for walking

way after his dad dies. That's wow. No, don't try and do that. Don't try and turn that into a That's exactly what happened. Yeah, okay. But is that my fault when we're grading him? You know what? His dad got to put some stank on that trash talk. And then he walked. And so therefore, so we give him, what do we give him for that?

10 extra wins? What are we adding to the resume for that? What is the length of time that you're just going to be like, okay, now we just assume that he wins these. What is it? I'm not assuming any of those. saying he never lost. Okay. So then if his career stopped when it stopped, I don't really have

an opinion on why it stopped. He stopped his career and therefore I'm going to judge it based on that. There's nothing to do it. Why? I don't care about why. That's something to him. Never lost. Yeah. Actually never lost. Very few title defenses. Just not even in the combo for goat.

Did never fight a middleweight or a bunch of old people just out here fighting the best side weights in the world in the best division, not a shitty division. where he fought a bunch of middle-weight. And is now currently not to fight. Where's DJ? Where's DJ?

Oh, it's strength of competition, right? I think you're, I think DJ has a very good argument to be go. I think DJ is a very good good. You're questioning the strength of competition for John Jones. Do you make an argument for DJ's strength of competition is quite here? DJ's got very good competition. No, when you, what are we?

What? John Jones's title defenses were there are bad people in DJ and Ron. I'm not saying all of them are. Joe Soto? What are we like what what fights are we like talking about here? Just just so do you not remember any of DJ's wins? Yeah. John Dodson's very good.

Joseph Benavita's very good. Very good. Yeah, there's some good ones. There's also some bad ones. So John Jones has no good ones either. John Jones. No, I have never said John does have good ones. Literally just for saying old middleweights of old men and middleweights.

So none of those are good. true statements. I don't know what to tell you. So, okay. Demetia, look, Demetrius, I love them. I, I, I rate him highly on my goat ranking. Let's not pretend that Demetrius was fighting like a murderer's row of guys in the UFC. It's just not true. I absolutely think he was fighting a very good string of competition. I thought it at the time and thought it was insane that everyone's like, whatever, he's small, so no one cares about him. That's nuts. Yeah. I think, I, I think, I, I think the skill set for those fly weights are just so much higher than most of the 205ers. But I get it.

Moving on. You're fighting the competition that you have. Like, yeah, the 205er is not as skilled as a flyweight. I will grant you that and not even come close to debating it. But the level of competition that John was, like, I mean, do we go back to what I said before the show about Daniel Cormier? Do we want to rehash this conversation? So here's the thing. John's really John's resume

starting to lean real heavily on DC the same way Faders did was like, okay, I know he beat a lot of people like whatever, but he also whipped Nogs ass. It's not just whatever like Shogun, Rampage, Glover, like these are not just like whatever.

I know you're gonna say they're whatever. They're just not whatever. Bichita was a great win. Machita was a great win. Machita was a good win. These are not just like whatever. They're just not. I'm sorry.

They're just not. They're not whatever. That's terrific. That's terrific, buddy. Tell me how the back half of his heavyweight career went. When he hedged out a win against Anthony Smith, who's not good, when he probably lost to Tiago Santos who has two knees and is bad when he definitely lost the Dominic Reyes. Probably lost to Tiago Santos.

Oh, come on. All right. I scored. You know what he didn't do, though? He didn't actually lose. He didn't lose. He won. And that's terrific.

But he had an awful performance. against real bad fighters. Awful performances and winning are better than losing. Yes. I'm sorry. That's how that works. I don't know. Losing is not how you played this game.

That's framed in a very open-ended. I would rather have a good performance against a good fighter and lose than have a winning performance against a shipfighter. Yeah, in a vacuum. When it comes to a legacy resume conversation, your whole thing was just Habib didn't lose. You literally just said that moments ago. That was me just fucking with you.

I'm not putting him. John did lose. John did lose. He lost. Like, I don't know how John people can't. Like, you can feel in your heart that he didn't.

And that's okay. But it is, it's on the scoreboard. And I don't care that it shouldn't happen. This is so crazy. He put himself in a position of taking out. Everybody John Jones beat was old and a middle weight and he and he lost all these fights. Oh, it's just crazy.

I didn't say it was all the fights. He officially lost one. The two division champion. It's just, nuts. I don't know, man. All right. The scoreboard is the scoreboard. I don't know what to tell you. The scoreboard is the scoreboard. And the scoreboard says John Jones beat a bunch of Hall of Famers and never lost. That's what the scoreboard says.

No, the scoreboard absolutely says he lost. I don't know how you can deal with this. To who? Unofficially his scoreboard, Rick. He officially has lost. So your, so your evidence is you're pointing to Matt Hamill. That's your thing. You're like, Matt Hamill is the guy. Here's what I've got. Rick, I've got. you in a box because either it is only the record that matters and then he lost him at ham when you got to wear it or it's not the record it's the vibe and then he fucking lost the dominic graz he lost one of them you can pick which one makes you happier but one of those is an hell

whichever way you want to hang this you can hell he could have lost both and he stole the goat what do you want like what do you want that's fine that's an okay position to have but yeah that's the right position he's fine he didn't lose either of them but you can have it you can have it and he's still the goat. He didn't lose. You can have it. He lost both and he's still the goat. How about that?

Okay. There you go. Absolutely think you're wrong because, again, you still haven't addressed the fact that he's a chicken and the coward and chicken and can't forget us. Well, that part. I got you coming in going,

all I know is there's a interim champion in his weight class and he's trying to fight, you know, there's a former middleweight again. There's a speaker campaign being done against John Jones that I just, I cannot. I cannot get on board with. If you had a chicken, through me wrong, fight Tom Aspinall.

Fight Tom Aspinall. I'm going to take a breath. I'll never, I'll never speak bad about you again. I don't believe you. I don't want to fight Tom. I think he will fight Tom. I think he will fight Tom Aspinol and I don't think you will admit that you

you have to change your stance. I think you will change your stance. I think you'll still find a way to integrate his resume. If you fight some assholes, stop calling him chicken. But what will happen? Just like when he beat Shogun and Rampage, him be like, ah, Tom

if he beats Tom, that would be the best win of his career. You say that, well, but in 10 years, in 10 years, you'll be like, ah, Tom. Tom was just a guy? He was a, was he even a heavyweight? Who knew, who knows? Was Tom even a heavy weight?

That's what we'll be doing. Tom is a good fighter. We know Tom, we know Tom is not past this prime. I also think so about Tom. All right, look, that's Tom. I agree. Questions about Dom. Okay, we get Dom here.

Okay. Yeah, 20 months. There you go, Ter. Listen, BTL, we'll do this. on BTL, we'll just do the whole show about the Go conversation. You guys can do it. I don't want to have it. I'm so, I don't want to have it.

And then we could do pound for pound and then we could do fight, uh, card fight placement. And then that will be the three rounds. Uh, perfect. Yeah, I don't, can the final round be open scoring? Hard fight patient. Yes.

Yes. In fact, it will. What a show. What a show it's going to be. It's going to be like the old show of BTL. I can't care less about open scoring. Uh, Does Aldo get his ranking back?

Odds on the Dom fight. Yes, Aldo's getting ranked out. He has to get his ranking back, right? Yeah, for sure. He will be high on high. I think for us, and I'm interested to see what the UFC ends up doing with him in there. I know their rankings are nonsense anyway, but like he's beating the number 12 guy. And usually it's just like, okay, we slot you in at 11 or whatever, 12 and we bump Martinez back.

But because before he retired, he was like six, I don't know how that's going to track for them. So I don't know. It would be fun to see on Tuesday. Can I ask something that might sour the mood, but like I feel like is a legitimate question? Are we 100% sure the UFC wants to re-sign Jose Aldo? Like, is that a, is that a guarantee? I don't feel like that's a guarantee by any measure. Okay.

Yeah. I don't mean to like put stink on it, but like at the same time, like, the fact that they gave him his final fight without the negotiation to me is like a sign of like, hey, maybe it's not like a foregone conclusion that Aldo is. a UFC fighter because they may not, you know, they may say like, hey, this was great. This Rio thing was fantastic. Thanks for helping us all these tickets. And like now, you know, you can go do boxing. That'd be great and support him in that. So I'm not 100% sure.

I would venture to say that they will try to resign him, but they're not going to pay him a bunch. Because he like the couple of the interviews pre this event, he's like, yeah, he maintains that he didn't come back to save this card or whatever that he was already talking about returning and that it just so happened that this worked out but that they were talking about it before and the UFC wanted to resign him before he came back but he just wanted to fight out and then kind of assess from there so I think they would resign him I don't think they're going to back up the brink struck for him so we'll see how it ends up I think that makes sense yeah okay i would say it's more likely than not he does not return to the UFC but not by like like 55 45 45% would be my guess he's not getting a raise how about that if he wants to resign he's not

getting a raise whatever he got paid tonight will be his new contract who's that who's that behind who's that behind mike right there who's that just an absolute legend there he is look at him k what a legend all right uh we got a few more super chats just roll through these uh we got we still have a lot of shit we get it Yeah. Who is Matt Hamel? Thank you, Achilles. Thank you, Achilles.

There's a movie about him. You can watch. We probably will end up doing it at time. Kill the Villal. Anthony Smith ruined my 13-leg parley at 20 bucks. It was a fan really happy for him. Anthony Smith ruined my perfect night betting. So that means you're all favorites.

You just took every favorite on the card, which I respect, because it was cashing. Yeah, that one in particular, yeah. Yeah, that's wild. I think Andy Smith. Was Andy Smith the only underdog? Oh, no, was Otto underdog too? Otto was an underdog.

Smith and Alder are the only underdogs of cash tonight. Wow. Yeah, Smith, the one doesn't surprise me. Otto, whatever, we talked about that earlier. Otto wouldn't surprise me as being an underdog, but. Richie Elgar had the comments saying Aldo cares about legacy, not money. Oh. Oh, no, no, no.

No, no, no. No, no. I just couldn't be more wrong. Aldo's legacy is already rock solid. Yeah. That legacy ain't paying the ability to improve his legacy that much in this point. Unless he wins the Bannamweight title, that's the only thing that will improve it. Maybe you will.

Because if you're the goat, you can only be so goaded, you know. Oh, God. Okay. Would he only be signing for a Bannamweight title shot at me? Oh, whatever. I mean, that would be it. But one thing to add, actually, Casey, on that topic. So our own Guillermo Cruz said, Josie Aldo said at the post-fighter,

Presser. Oh, sorry. I've stepped away from it. Post-right presser that he has completed his UFC deal, but the promotion still has the option to match whatever offer he gets. So he will sit down with Dana White to discuss his future. So that's interesting. They can match offers with him. But sometimes they wave that.

Sometimes, you know, that becomes a non-factor. He likes the idea. He likes the idea of skipping the line straight for the Bantamweight title. So Jed may get his wish and maybe Josealdo gets, get Sean O'Malley. It'll be a real bummer if he loses to O'Malley, which again, I think I'd probably pick O'Malley,

but it would also just be... Is it going to be funky if O'Malley starts being like, I want Jose Aldo over Marab? That could be... I'm stunned. I'm stunned he hasn't tweeted up. Yeah, I kind of thought that that would be like the first thing out. But like,

also you could just do them both. I know in O'Malley's grand plan, he beats Marob and then fights Ilya. Illia has other business to intend to. So like, beat Maraub and then fight Jose. that's fine too. There was so little interest for this car tonight.

And poor course, they didn't even live forever sad. Yeah. That's a good point, Casey. Yeah. No, because Sean O'Malley was watching. He said something. Oh, he liked the Michelle Pereira backflip.

He said that was badass, I believe. Yeah. He was out of these watching. Dude, O'Malley Auto makes a lot of money-wise pride. Ooh, wow. Makes more than Marum. Makes more than wrong. Oh, is Aldo that guy, though,

like the like pay-view draw guy? I don't think he's like that. Yeah, but there's a story there. Marab is a story that you see it's not good at selling that story. And I don't know. Yeah. That's what more. I think it's easier to sell.

Paper view draw. Yeah. I feel like to the point, there's a simpler storyline of being like this guy's like a in the goat conversation, not the goat, but in the goat conversation and here's John O'Malley's opportunity to knock off like a real legend. I think that I think that could sell. So maybe maybe a little bit elevated above.

I mean, Marab's been doing a good job selling O'Malley, the O'Malley fight. I feel like there's something there. I don't know. There's something. I think he's going to get it, but it would, I would be deeply amused if they gave it to I know this. Josie Aldo wouldn't get that fight without resigning for a decent length of time for a decent amount of fights.

So it's going to really come down to that anyway. You would have to finish his entire combat sports career. You have to sign a fight deal. Not necessarily. He'd have to sign a six, eight fight deal. But they'd still probably let him be like, I'm retired, let me go box. I'm like, okay, it's fine. Yeah.

They already let him do it. Yeah, but not like boxing on fight pass. He doesn't have really 100% control of his boxing career. It's not like he can jump on. Yeah, but I think he can't jump on a Jake Paul card. Oh, yeah, okay. Well, the, well. I'm, I still don't know how the contracts really work in this regard.

I would be fairly surprised if it allowed them to match boxing deals. And if he can go box Floyd, Mayweather, which is like a thing that was out there for a little bit, you should do that. That would be a better choice for you. They can't, I don't think a boxing deal applies. I think it would be an MMA deal, but they also, there's a matching period, right? So Jose Aldo could theoretically just like, but yeah. Yeah, who knows how long?

And then we're fine. And then he could, I don't know how long that matching period is. Nine months to 12. Yeah, which means they could freeze them for a year, which may, he might just, which would, oh, price fighting business. All right. He's just spent two years sort of frozen, so it's fine. We'll find out.

We're going to find out because it'll play out over the next couple of months. All right. I'll take a couple more. It's a rifle through these. Oralby v. Jalen Turner. Jed, defend your son. He's not my son anymore. We put him up.

We went full Drake and just abandoned him. We can't support Jalen Turner anymore. Drop them off at the fire station. We just had to let him go. I love Jalen Turner, treated him like a son, and all I ever got was sadness in return. So we, unlike, you know, with people, you know, I don't want to say names.

I don't want them to know that I'm disappointed in them, but, you know, former eight-time BGG World Champion, you might know her, I have given up on Jalen Turner. He's out. We can't do what you did against Money Moikano and still be. my boy. All right.

That fight sounds cool. I actually think that fight's not bad. This kind of goes back into it right here. It's kind of a similar question. What do we think about oral by? I think Broke could be serious problems with 155. I'm telling you guys for a hot minute about this guy. Yeah, he's good.

He's a little raw, but still very, very good. Once he puts it all together, it's going to be tough for anybody to beat that guy. He's 26. He's going to. guys going to fight for a belt one day. Oh, say that again?

What did you say? He's going to fight for a belt. He'll fight for a belt. I didn't see that tonight. I just saw a guy who... He's 26. I was going to say, I don't know if I saw that, but I'm also like not expecting to see that, right?

Like, it's way too early for me to feel like, oh, you have to show that in this fight. You know what you saw? Do you know what you saw tonight? You saw a guy whose name you can't spell and who's wearing a funny hat. And the hit rate of people, that Matt's that description and being top five fighters is 100%.

So any outdog Delvis Brenner tonight, which not a lot of people thought he was going to be able to do. Agreed. Like I was a, I was a, I walked away like in actual psychopath. I'll agree with Casey. Like I didn't see like, you know, necessarily future champion, but I'm also not expecting to see future champion in this part of his career. I don't know if he wins belt, but I think he does end up fighting for it. He's only going to improve leaps and bounds from what he was tonight. He's still pretty damn good.

Lightweight just has like a lot of dudes that are waiting for a fall off. Yeah. Like Gagei Poria Olivaira to an extent Gamrock, because he's a little older than people think. Daryush. Like that's the top five outside of Armand and Islam. And all of those dudes are not that long for the top of this weight class. There's just a whole.

But Lightweight also just has all these dudes that are just like not ranked that are like fucking sick. Like they're nasty. Like they're just like so good. Like ridiculous. It's crazy. I don't hate the jail in turn, right? That's not what I would define. I don't quite, I don't want to jump on.

What do you think I like more, but? No one likes. Just because that's a ranked fight. It's his third fight. I'd give him Drew Dover. Drew Dover is the fight for me. I was thinking Dr. Sorry, I was thinking Close.

Same card. He was timeline should line up. Dr. Dr. Kirk Close has got to fight somebody. He seems to be good still. I know no one's excited about Dr. Dr. Carr Close. but no i just there's a still i kind of feel like you're like the upside of that fight isn't like enough right like there's a certain point where it's like that's like that's actually like a tough

dude who it's not going to vault you that that much and then it's almost like you're kind of defeating the purpose you know yeah i'd be good with bomb feme yeah all those are um fiend fought on the car yeah kind of like a top 30ish dude i feel like it's a step back from brunner I don't think so. I think Bonfem is a lot. I had Brenner at like 25 in my rankings. I think Bonfim is a star. Brenner went out and beat the hell out of Guram Kutata Luteu.

Who I ranked very, I put him very high on my list. That was what he did in that fight was unbelievable. Yeah, but that was one of those ones where he just like he was just a dog, right? Like he won by just being an absolute dog in the third round. He's just a little bit, man. He's just a cool box guy. Like those guys are just, like,

Those guys are just, they're awesome. He's really keeping that spear alive and I respect to piss out of it. Yeah. Like just whatever, bro. I've been, I've been giving my ass handed me for 10 minutes. Still here. What you got.

No, not still here. I'm going to be better now. Like, I'm, I'm ramping up now. This is, this is when I'm shining.

You're done. You're toast. All right. One quick super chat that's off topic. Um, off topic of this card. but real quick. If Dustin wins next month, what's his legacy?

How do we view it? Oh, man, that changes everything. If Dustin beats Islam Makachev in his perceived prime, yeah, that would be insane. That would like, Dustin's legacy is rock solid right now. He's probably the best guy to not hold undisputed. Like, is there, do we have anybody else who's in that combo that I'm overlooking right now, like, disrespectfully? A lightweight. No, just like, who are the best guys to not hold undisputed gold?

Is he probably the guy? I'm trying to think. If he's not the guy, he's one of those, right? Yeah, he's right there. He's right there. He's probably someone else, but he's right there for sure. Certainly in that conversation. If he gets it, it's game changer.

It's like the legacy looks insane on paper. Like just the level of competition he faced. I don't think he's the second best lightweight ever, but it does bump him up several spots. That's a big, it would be massive for his legacy. like really massive if you if you could do it. I wish I could find it. We did on some, I don't remember what we were doing.

Maybe it was a ranking show something. We started, I just put together a list of the top 12 lightweights of all time, which is an insane. That is just the best people you've ever heard of. And it was so hard. It's like one and two I think are very bulletproof and no one can touch them. Like they can touch them,

but like I think that they're pretty clearly, it's Habib and BJ and then it's everyone else. And then there was just like, six dudes in a tier. And I think that win would definitely elevate Dustin up to either three or four, as opposed to being kind of in the rest of the tier of lightweights. Would he not pass BJ at that point? I'm just looking at the, I'm just, hey, we're talking to number one BJ.

Yeah, I know. You're a BJ guy too, yeah. So that's not for you to say. If he does, like, if Dustin passes him, then I think you have to put Charles above. BJ too. I think I don't have it. I would say that Charles's career is equally as good as Dustin's. Like Josh is so uneven.

Yeah. Charles is. It's tough. Yeah, because Charles has so many. Charles is a weird career, but like if you're just talking his lightweight career, not the featherweight part of his career, just a lightweight career. That's being fair. I think it's better than Dustin's currently, certainly.

And even if Dustin gets the belt, if he gets the belt and drops, it like immediately. If he gets a button to defend, sure. But I think it elevates him. Absolutely elevates him. I'd have to really lay it down to where it is. But I just default to BJ because BJ was the best lightweight in the world for eight years. The prime was insane for BJ.

Yes, certainly. Unbelievable. But like lightweight, lightweight is such a good division that it's hard. Habib is sort of the default number one because he never lost. and that's that like that's a huge feather in the cap. It's fair. Everyone just beats the shit out of each other at lightweight. So it's not like there's a dude who has 10 title defenses.

Yeah. Even for Habib, it's not even the loss is the dominance of the wins, but I completely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's fine.

We can all say that. Where he ranks in the goat combo is different, but like lightweight, like, yeah, Habib. For sure. And then west light one. But it would be huge for us to win it. here. This is quick.

And it would legitimately be awesome. Wilhelmich versus Smith, Pantoja versus La Cive. Cool. And one quick just comment because I like this from Forrest Daniels. Forrest is Carver. From C on paper to a B plus live, Jebushu is an American treasure and an icon of MMA media.

Mike Heck is incredible as well. I love you. Thank you. Much appreciated. I'll accept being called the treasure. I'm certainly not an icon of anything, but not yet. I love you nonetheless, Forrest. Do you feel like American Treasurer?

is below icon? I do. Because treasure is really just a statement of, you know, your vibes. Like, I treasure you. Whereas icon is, you know, like, it's an icon. Like, it is a widely accepted thing amongst the broad consensus of populace. But some conversations I've had in my life, some rank icons, like compare icons to chickens while others compare America treasures to ghosts.

Mike, it's funny you say that. Actually, John Jones is right now on Twitter. talking to people and responding to comments. And somebody asked John Jones, John, what's most important to you legacy-wise? Your impressive win record or quality of opponents? You know, certainly people are acknowledging the quality of opponent here. John says, I would say the quality of opponents.

The majority of my MMA record are title fights. That's what makes it rare. And you know what? It's hard to argue with that, John Jones. Like having every fight be a title fight is an impressive thing. And, yeah, John Jones, the goat. Good answer there from John Jones. John Jones. I like that that happened 36 seconds ago and right as we're

wrapping up for this. And so Jed can't reply. Can you go back to the tweets where he's trying to pick a fight with Alex Pereira, former U.C. Middleweight at heavyweight? You know, it's not. Can you go back to the tweets where he's like, I'm not all that interested in interim champion, Tom? I don't even really think that he's an interim champion. Who cares? It doesn't mean anything. He's just playing the game. He's just trying to negotiate. And Alex Pereira is the guy right now. It's okay. You know, we'll get there. As we exit, look me in the eyes. Do you honestly,

think he will ever fight Tom Asperol? I actually do. I actually do, but I don't think it's like a get. I don't think it's a guarantee by any means. I don't think it's a guarantee by any means. But I, but I actually ultimately do think he will fight Tom. I do.

I hope you are right. But if he wants to fight Tom, he should be trying to fight Tom now and not fight Tom later because he is only getting older. I think it's less about him and more about the fact that I do think Tom will elevate himself to like a tier where it will be you have to do John Jones versus Tom Asperal. I'm very high on. Tom. I believe he will get there. And so I think

Tom needs to get real petty and just start dropping disc tracks. No, he just He's been doing okay. He's all together. He's he's the champion. John doesn't exist. That's how he No, no, that's the wrong strategy. No, you need to coax John into the fight. That's the absolute wrong strategy. Fluck like a chicken at him every time he talks. Yeah, you act like

John doesn't exist in this world. Like, he is not a person. And then that's how you get it. We can leave and we can stop talking with John Jones. He's a person. He's the goat. John Jones. We've been off there for like 30 minutes. No, a joke. Thank God. We love you all.

We'll see tomorrow. We love you all so much. Thanks for staying with us. You're the best. Bye, bye. We did 90 minutes on this card. We love you. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. With Instacard, you get groceries that over-deliver so you can over-share your preferences.

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