MMA Fighting - UFC 308 Post-Fight Show: Did Ilia Topuria Lock Up Fighter of the Year with Astonishing Max Holloway Knockout?

Episode Date: October 27, 2024

Ilia Topuria may have just locked up the Fighter of the Year. On Saturday night in Abu Dhabi, Topuria became the first man to ever knock out Max Holloway, finishing him with punches in the third round of the UFC 308 main event. Following Saturday’s pay-per-view event, MMA Fighting’s Mike Heck and Jed Meshew react to Topuria’s astonishing performance and where this puts him not only in the Fighter of the Year conversation, but in the pound-for-pound mix. On top of that, MMA Fighting discusses Khamzat Chimaev breaking Robert Whittaker’s jaw with a brutal submission and whether that allows him to leapfrog Sean Strickland for a middleweight title shot, Magomed Ankalaev’s workmanlike win over Aleksandar Rakic, the judging controversies that riddled the rest of the card, and much more. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When I got a great deal on a great gift at Winners, I started wondering, could I get fabulous gifts for everyone on my list? Like this designer fragrance for my daughter. At just $39.99, how could I resist? This luxurious will throw for my sister. This gold watch for my partner? A wooden puzzle for my niece? Leather gloves for my boss?

Ooh, European chocolate for the crossing guard? At these prices, could I find something for everyone at Winners? Stop wondering. Start gifting. Winners, find fabulous for less. Welcome aboard Air Canada Rocky's vacation here we come Whoa is this economy Free beer, wine and snacks

Sweet Fast free Wi-Fi means I can make dinner reservations before we land And with live TV I'm not missing the game It's kind of like I'm already on vacation Nice Air Canada Nice travels

Wi-Fi available to AeroPlan members on equip flights sponsored by Bell Conditions apply see Air Canada.com You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. There they are, everybody, the victory horns. And they sound for, in my opinion, and I know other people in this panel's opinion, the fighter of the year in 2024, the featherweight champion of the world, Iliot DeForia, who becomes the first fighter ever, ever to knock out Max Holloway in a mixed martial arts vote.

And they also sound. for Hamza Chimayef, who broke the jaw of Robert Whitaker with a facecrank. Those are the two closing moments of UFC 308. We always say, afternoon MMA is always better, and this was proven as UFC 308 has come to a close. The longest and probably worst press conference in the history of the UFC just came to a close. And finally, we get to react to UFC 308 with all of you. Welcome to the UFC 308 post-fight show. I am Mike Keck and a man who joined me in Command Center 4.0 for all the action now in Savannah.

Jed Mishu joins us on locale with the moon behind them. It looks like. The moon is big and bright as is Ilya Tuporia's future, Mike, because that's the best finding. Freaking world. Yes, and on the ones and twos, you got Mr. sleeves are only optional. E. Casey Liden. There he is. Oh, he's got sleeves.

He's got long sleeves. What is happening? Chile in California, eh? I've been up since 5.30 this morning. So I'm so tired, but I'm excited to talk about violence in a cage. There was lots of violence. There was lots of violence. Most notably in the main event, Jen Michoud,

Ilya knocks out Max Holloway. We got to feel the emotional ride of it all doing the watch party. We got the highest of the highs. We got the adrenaline dump. like 10 minutes later when it was all said and done. But now that you've had a chance to reflect, you drove here from South Carolina back to Savannah, Georgia. How are we feeling about what Ilya to do you feel the same?

Is it even more impressive? Like, where are we at with it? So, Mike, we talked about another watch party. It took me like an hour 20 to get to you. Traffic was really bad, whatever, whatever. Driving back, it should be about 40, 45 minutes. And that's what it took. And it was one of those drives, Mike,

where like normally I like to put on the radio I listen to a podcast, a book on tape, something to just like be with me while I am driving. And I got in my car and I sent a couple of tweets from out in front of your place and then I got on the road and I didn't listen to a goddamn thing. I just sat there and let the feeling of UFC 308

wash over me basically and like what we just witnessed something historic, something unbelievable. When we look back in time and say, man, what is the best years in MMA fighters had? It's like the John Jones run, the four-fight run in whatever, 05 or whatever,

the, not 05, 10, whatever it was, I think it was 10, maybe 11 actually. The Shogun Whoa Pride GP run, like these unbelievable years, it won't get that same love because it's only two fights, but there ain't never

been a better two-fight run from a fighter in a single year than what Ilya Tuporia has done. Ethering the a guy, some people believe to be the greatest featherweight of all time, one of the 10 best fighters ever in my estimation in Alexander Volkinovsky, delivering him his first loss ever at this weight class, just unbelievable performance. And then to do this to a guy, a bunch of people were picking, also an all-time great a guy. many people thought might be a tough style matchup for him. It's one of the best stretches of a fighter career I've ever seen, and he is 20 friggin seven.

And so I just sat on the ride back and thought about all this. I thought about the event in the fight. You know my opinion. He's the fighter of the year. It's not a contest. I am sorry, Alex Pereira. These are different universes of accomplishment between the two of you. But I'm going one further, Mike.

I had the time to reflect on Monday morning in our pound for pound rankings, it will be reflected. Iliate Tupori is my number one pound for pound fighter in the world right now. Wow. You're just bumping Islam, just like that. Look, I got no, you, there is nobody alive who can question my credentials on Islam Makachev. I had that man as the number one ranked lightweight in our rankings for like a year and a half before everyone else finally did it. when he won the belt. I have said many times,

best fighter in the world, but you see something and you just got to go with where it's at and for all the things Islam has accomplished. And if you leave Islam at number one, I won't argue. It is a fine position for him.

And it's not really his fault the way his title reign has broken down, but he has two wins over a featherweight and he has Dustin Porier as his title defenses. Great wins, objectively, still very good wins. They ain't two top 15 all-time fighters.

Maybe not in the prime, but at least close enough for us to believe they're near, if not in their prime. And I just, I got to give him credit for that. Like, if Islam comes out here, and it will change, if Islam comes out here and dummies, Arm and Sarukin, whenever they do fight, sure, he's back to the top of the billing. But right now, undefeated has leveled. everybody he has faced basically or put a whooping on them to the tune of 50, 42 or whatever.

Like you just, you credit where it's due, man. He has delivered the performance. He talked a bunch of shit and backed it up. And I got to give him, I got to give him his props for it. He's going to be my number one, man. I have to have this kind of reflection because my reflection after just like walking the dog and all that stuff. because if you watch the watch party, dude wanted to get outside

and take care of business and boy did he, my thought was, look, Ilya's fighter of the year and it's going to be a fun conversation to have through the rest of the year as to why it's Ilya and not Alex Pereira.

Like, there is a debate here and it's going to be an enjoyable debate. Upon further reflection, what I came to the conclusion of, I'm with you. There is no debate. There is no conversation to be had. It is Ilya.

to Poria by a mile. Alex Pereira has three wins. And I know oftentimes that weighs a lot in these conversations. But Ilya's two wins are way more impressive than Pereira's three. Jamal Hill was not the best light heavyweight in the world. I thought he, I think in our rankings by the time they fought, he was like number five or number six, which I think is incredibly fair. Then he beats Yuri Perashka for the second time.

I understand the short notice nature of it. So that bumps it up a little bit. And then he beat Khalil Roundtree, who nobody believed should have gotten the title shot. Now, the fight ended up being great, and Khalil had a great account for himself and his stock rose and all of that great stuff. And Dana talked about the rankings and one of the big reasons he wants to change the rankings because of how Cleoel performed in that fight. But him knocking out Alexander Volcanovsky and Max Holloway, back-to-back fights, finishing both of them, knocking them both dead, is, just the most impressive thing I've ever seen for a guy who won two fights of the year.

Won the belt. Called both of them, which is even crazier. I will knock Volcanovsky out in the first two rounds. Set it. I will become the first man to knock out Max Holloway. Set it and did it. It's ridiculous, dude.

This is ridiculous. And I don't know if I need to, I don't know if I can pull the trigger on Ilya to Polly being the number one pound for pound fighter just yet. But I can't blame you for it. I can't. He's ridiculous.

He's 27. He's not even close to a finished product. It's so scary to think about. I was about to say, man. Think about where he's going to be in a couple of years. Like, look, like I said, I'm okay with you Evanism. I'm okay with Alex Pereira being your top pound fighter in the world. I think any of those, it's kind of like boxing, right?

Or right now they've got the Olexander Usick Inouye, Bud Crawford, kind of triphous. who have separated themselves out. And you want to pick any of those three? That's to personal taste, in my opinion. I'm comfortable with any of those selections. For me, maybe it's recency bias, but I think the big thing that you said there that really I think has crystallized with me this past hour,

it's not that he won. I was picking him to win. I thought he was going to win dominantly. My official prediction was 49-46 scorecard for him. Like, I thought he was just going to be a classy, performance. Oh, look at him. He doesn't do Iliot-Tupurea things. He leveled up. And he, boy, did he level up. He leveled up a whole different way. Coming in and knocking out, Max Holloway, a thing that I genuinely did not think was possible. That is enough. That is enough extra juice

to be like, hey, man, right now you get the belt. Somebody else comes and wins. Pereira goes in and beats Magma and Goliath, or like I said, Islam gets another defense. We can swap that positioning around. But right now, outside of him undeniably being fighter of the year, I think, because I've seen a lot of internet has come around to this, there was big pushback on this idea before UFC

308 that the winner was guaranteed to get it, the way it happened. I think most people are starting to come to the yeah, it's actually I think people will slowly come around and be like, yeah, this dude actually is one of the three best fighters. And if you have him as number one,

I'm cool with it. And, like I said, that's where I'm going to be Monday. MMA fighting rankings update will go out Monday or Tuesday, and at least one of us will have a first-place vote for Iliot-Dupurea. And it looks like they're going to do Volcanovsky again. And I know we're, I don't even know if it's joking anymore. We're saying, no, Volk, don't do it. Go to 55.

Go fight Porre. Go fight Charles Olivera. Go do anything else but fight this man again. And there is a part of me that is dead serious about that. This is not going to go well for him. if he fights Ilya again, no matter how talented he is, no matter how long he has a fight camp for. And it seems like Ilya's going to take some time off

before he gets back in there. So Volk's going to have another probably seven, eight, nine months to prepare for Ilya to prepare for Ilya to beat him, man. I don't know if he can't. I don't know if there's a guy. I don't know if there's a featherweight who can. Like I don't even know, I don't even know if there's like a road to take to beat him right now.

Like normally we can put it. it into context and say, well, if this happens or this happens, like, he's got a chance. Like in this fight, he was like, well, if this fight goes long, Max has a chance, maybe he gets steal a little bit of momentum. But coming out of this, like, I just don't see a path for Volcanovsky to win this fight. Unless, like, this is just Illia's greatest performance of all time. And Volk was really off in February. But I just don't think that was true. I just think Ili is that good. He is a transcendent talent. Like, he is a once in a lifetime fighter that we're watching right now.

He is a calamity on wheels, and I am with you. I'm okay with them doing the Volk thing. You know that that's never my preference. I would love Volk to get a win, but I've lost that battle. I understand it. I won't complain about it. We're going to do it, and that's okay.

I am interested in the Diego Lopez fight. Make no mistake, I will be picking Ilyat Teporea, should that happen. But new matchup and credit to Diego Lopez, he kind of has a touch of magic around him, right? Like, his run through the UFC has been so oddly special that, like, okay, maybe, maybe that magic continues. And he's just some cool happens. Casey, I don't know what happened. That was fun as you. Yes, it was.

But, like, I don't know. I will not pick any. There were off the top of my head, maybe three men under 155 pounds, that weigh 155 pounds or less than I would pick to beat Iliot to Port. in a fist fight right now because you can have success. And we talked about this on the wash party. I was in a Volcanobsky won the first round against Dillian Tipper. He had a lot of success. Max Holloway arguably won the first two rounds.

I didn't score it that way, but I saw some people do it. I don't have any issue with that. But it doesn't matter. He is a cataclysm when he gets you to the spots. He wants to get you. If he can do that to Max Holloway, he can do it to anybody. because Max Holloway is uncrackable, and he can do that to him, it is curtains for all of you at 145. So I hope we get to see more of it.

I am already seeing an immediate push for let's do champ versus champ. I think that's insane. I know that we'll pick to Poria to beat all these featherweights. I still want to see it. He needs to do the work to be the champion, but like you said, he's 27. It looks like we have a generational kind of fighter on our hands, and hopefully we'll get to see that play out over the next few years as he builds a legacy to rival.

Featherweight, one of arguably the best historical division in terms of champions. Joseo Alto, into Max Holloway and Alexander Volcanovsky, that is three of the 15 best fighters ever. DePore you can build a legacy in this weight class to now rival those as well and become an all-time great. if he chooses to stay here. A lot of work to be done. Hope we get to see it.

And honestly, I don't care. I'll watch that dude fight anybody because it is going to be destruction when he gets you inside the phone booth. Yeah, he's got a chin on him. He's very hard to hit or hurt or do anything too. And on top of that, he's becoming a star. And not only that, he's becoming like a rare,

it rarefied air in MMA where he just becomes a special attraction. Like people are going to pay lots of money to watch this band fight. And I don't care if he fights twice a year or even once a year. It does not matter. The guy is taking care of himself. He even said the post-fight press conference, which took forever. But he did say, look, I'm 27 years old. I'm in no rush right now. I can go and have my two fights a year and be cool with it. Fight, take some time, be with my family, reflect, get healthy. When I'm ready to go, then I'll prepare for the next one. And people will be excited for that. It's okay if you don't fight three, four times a year.

Tupori is in that just special territory right now. The guy is unbelievable. He's just absolutely ridiculous. And him and Volk is going to happen. And Diego Lopez, probably the biggest loser of the day when it comes to the featherweight division because he weighed in as the backup. He's been on a great run. He was the breakout fighter of the year last year.

He's having a terrific year this year. I was hoping to maybe get the Volk fight, maybe an interim title. maybe even sneak into a to an actual title fight here. He ain't getting it. So he's going to have to fight either probably Mozart of Loia for Al Jermaine Sterling. And that's going to be a tough fight for him. Maybe he gets it and becomes next in line.

But Diego Lopez's road just got a little bit longer. But very, very interesting. Now we go to the other side because, I mean, Dili is just, there's not much more we can say about him. Now he got Max Holloway. Showed up at the press conference Jed. And answer the questions. off, superclass, had no excuses.

And basically he said what we have been saying. Yeah, man, get me to 55 because that, I mean, that's kind of where I want to be at this point, because he gave this as all. And what's important to recognize here, too, Max had a great night. He had more success against Iliate Toporia than anybody else has. I mean, I know Jai Herbert had that one moment where he got, where he kicked him in the face. Dude, I love the Jai Herbert moment because we can see in real time how that becomes the like, well, Gleason T. Bow gets to be like, ah, that one thing that I've been like, that is going to be the hook forever from now. Like, oh, well, Jai Herbert almost got him like, yeah, sometimes that.

I remember for years it was, it was Fador versus Old Ironhead. Well, Fader almost, he got wobbled that one time. I was like, yeah, but he didn't and he killed him. Yeah, Jai Herbert almost, but he didn't. Yeah, it was like, oh, Michael Johnson hurt Khabib and they fought at MSG. No, they didn't. Did you watch that fight? Ask forward to the end of that Jai Herbert fight.

Why don't you tell me who you rather be coming out of that one? It ain't Jai Herbert, newsflash. Where does Max go? Is it 255? Do we, does he help the other guys sort of push for this BMF four-man tournament and just be fun fight max, money, fun fight Max? I think that's honestly where he should go right now. It's not like he's 50.

He's 30, what, 32, 33? He's still very young, but he's got mileage on him. He definitely has mileage on him. Do we just go to 55 and have fun at this point? So I have a few thoughts on Max, and I want to credit Tommy Toll. It's going to pull this up just now to look at it. Tommy Tollad tweeted this, and it's an unbelievable thing.

It took 2,227 strikes over the course of 34 fights. for Max Holloway to get knocked out for the first time. That is unreal. Like, just truly an astonishing level of durability he's shown over his life. And that kind of leads me to one of the big points I thought in the ride home is I've thought for a while that Max Holloway has mileage. Now, there's a difference because people will reflectually think, oh, you're going to say he's washed. He's not washed. But there is a difference between being, you know, at your peak and having,

wear and tear, taking more time, being more prone to damage in ways. And I argued a long time ago that we started to see Max drop off. And he can still have amazing performances. Look at UFC 300. But if you watch that fight, you can also see that maybe he is declining somewhat. He is getting hurt. He got dropped in that fight, though officially he did not. The Dustin-Pourier rematch.

Like, we can see over time that maybe he is slowing down, but he's such an unbelievable fighter. And you've seen this over history with unbelievable fighters. Anderson Silva was out of his peak, like, well into his middleweight title career. And he still defended the belt numerous times because elite, world-class, all-time greats can do that. And I think we've seen that with Max. And this is not to say that he's going to fall off a cliff now. But it is to say that once the chin gets cracked, it's never the same. And it can still be great.

But think to Mark Hunt forever. Mark Hunt had the most legendary chin. in the sport. He took a high kick from Fadoa Emilianenko, flushed shin to the dome, and just like, we good, baby, is fine. But his chin, while still great, even late into his career, became susceptible. There started to become people who could crack it over time. Melvin Man, who famously knocked him out almost immediately, his UFC career. He was still able to have a great, robust career, and Max still certainly can, especially if he moves up to 155, less of a weight cut on him. his brain can probably take a little bit more than what happens to him as he sucks himself out.

But I think this probably is the start of the post-prime, like the official official start of post-prime Holloway. And so moving up to lightweight, I think he's an amazingly good idea for him. He's already a ranked dude there because of the gate you in. He has the BMF belt. Like, I'm a huge fan of the BMF title tournament that has been pitched. I don't know if it will actually come. But I've thought for a long time, Max would be a great lightweight, particularly. if he puts on a little bit of size, compete more physically.

I still think that is true. And his durability will probably get elongated a little. So 100%. He just has nothing left to do at 145. The only thing left for him was to reclaim the belt. And I'm sorry, that dream is dead. The dream could have lived when, you know, heading into this. The dream is over.

He ain't getting the 145 belt back. So go up to lightweight. Maybe you can get that belt. Certainly you can have more. legacy defining fights and honestly we will love the shit out of it because they will be awesome. So let's do it and let's enjoy this. However many years left, we have them. Could be a long time.

Could be a few years. But let's settle in and let's have the most fun fights we can with one of the most fun fighters in the history of the sport. Absolutely. Holloway Porre again, fine with it. Holloway Connor again, fine with it. Holloway Charles Oliveira for realzies would be awesome. Holloway versus Chandler, awesome. Like these are all fun, awesome fights.

Dan Hooker, we do the tournament. All those things are fun. No one's going to like be bad at it. These are all fun ideas. Max, if you're a young fighter, you just need to model everything Max Holloway has done. Just to rise up, everything he's accomplished to how you even just face the music when you lose.

Maxing up there, answer the questions. You could tell he didn't want to be there, but he did it anyways. That's just the kind of guy he is. So shout out to Max Holloway. Dude fought his ass off. He looked damn good in the fight until he got hit. I had the big shot in round three once Teporia got close and started figuring it out.

That was a wrap. And Elliott Taforia, featherweight champion, please, Jen. I loved that from Max, too. He said the same thing. He said the same thing. He felt great in there. No excuses. Great camp, wasn't injured.

I felt really good in the fight until I got hit. And I didn't think that it was that bad. But obviously it was. And like, there's no controversy about what, like, that's a finish, finish. Saying nothing to it. Max just, you know, took it on the chin, so to speak. There's, there is no way not to love Max Holloway for what he is given both inside and outside of the cage. And tonight was, you know, exhibit 8,000 that, yeah, this dude is still one of the most beloved fighters for a reason.

And like he said, this is not the end. This ain't a funeral. This may be the end of the featherweight title dream. But Max Hollowey's still got some good years left in him and we can enjoy those with him. Hamzaa Chamaif was the other big star of this event. It takes on Robert Whitaker. And boy, were people just counting out Hamzat Shamaif left and right.

The amount of people that were hitting me up, excuse me, telling me that Robert Whitaker is just going to dust up Hamzat Shemaya. We've had very respected people in this space go out there and say that Robert Whitaker is going to be pretty much, without breaking a sweat, beat up Hamzaat Shemayev. Because Hamzaa ain't the same cat anymore. That was wrong because Hamzat just goes in there,

tackles Robert Whitaker. Whitaker had moments with scrambles, but Hamzat was able to get dominant position and then breaks the jaw, shatters teeth of Robert Whitaker with a face crank. And this wasn't a face crank that was on for 30 seconds. This is a face crank that was on for three seconds. And Robert Whitaker's face exploded

because he got face cranked by Hamzat Shabayev. Jed, I know there's a lot of Sean Strickland fans out there who are going to be really upset that I'm going to say what I have to say, and you're probably going to agree with me. Sorry, Sean Strickland, you ain't getting this title shot. If this is a fair and meritocratic world, if the world is a better place and there's no travel restrictions at all, Hamzaa Shemayev should be fighting Jerkis duplicity next, true or false. That is not even a question. With a lot of been made about Max Holloway getting knocked out for the first time, Robert Whitaker,

First time he's ever been submitted. And I got to tell you, that's a really tough way to take your first submission loss. If you haven't seen it, go to MAPFind.com, but not safe for work. Don't have food in your stomach. Probably don't eat for like an hour before you do it because it is, we've seen similar things before, but it don't get any less disgusting. It looks like Robert Whitaker has dentures that got pushed to the back of his mouth, but he don't.

Those are just his teeth that got shoved out of them like you're popping pills out of a pack. It was disgusting. We were on the watch party. We were like, man, that was a really, really quick tap. Like, maybe broke his jaw. Yeah, I would tap quickly too if my teeth were threatening to go down my uvula. That was disgusting.

And if you were Robert Whitaker, I am so sorry for you, and I hope you recover well. and come back in a year. I don't know how long that takes to recover from. Emotionally, I would never recover from that if I looked at my own teeth and they were that. But if you are Sean Strickland, you just got to take this one on the chin, kid,

because it's not your knight. I got a lot of respect for him as a fighter. Sean Strickland is very, very good as a fighter. Some people believe he beat Trichis Duplice, maybe even many people did. Officially he did not. And then his comeback fight is a fine but unimpressive or exciting win over Apollo Costa,

a guy who is in the top 10, but like, he's hanging on there, you know? Conversely, Hamzat Shemayev just took the guy who has several wins and is number two or three in the middleweight U.S. rankings and broke his goddamn face, and he did it in less than five minutes. That guy is the guy that fights for the belt. The only reason it should not happen, is and not should that it would not happen,

is if Shemayev's issues would travel are too restrictive in the U.C. simply can't work around that. I don't believe that's the case. And I believe based on what Dana said at the post-prite presser, you know, he's a little cheeky about it. Somebody asked him, hey, did Hamzaa jump over? And he's like, well, call me on Tuesday. That wasn't a no.

That was probably, but we'll see how our timelines go. I believe Hamzaa is going to get the first or the next crack of trick is 2 plus C. I believe he should get the next cracket trickus two plus C. And I'm going to tell you, like, sign me the F up for that one. That is going to be just two hosses. Like, you know those fights where you see walruses on like the animal planet and they're fighting over some piece of land and they're just two giant 2,000 ton animal just mashing into each other?

That's Driggas duplice versus Hamzaa Chimayev only with chokes. It's going to be awesome and I can't wait for it. When we were doing the town hall with Don Davis, and he was like, yeah, it's King Kong versus Godzilla where they both knock each other down and they just get up and walk away. Like, this is that fight. This is that. This is awesome. Two bulls just getting after it.

And look, I want to see Sean Strickland fight both of these guys. And Sean Strickland is being a very smart businessman. He's made money. He's probably invested in it as well. You can hang out at what these two dudes fight because just think about it. If Drick is Duplice beats Homs, Samayev, his star power is off the friggin' charts, which means bigger fight for Sean Strickland. And if Hamzaa Chimayev becomes the middleweight champion, they're going to do Hamzaa Chimaya

versus Sean Strickland. And boy, oh boy, if there's a stylistic matchup that I want to see, it's that one. Like, there's no wrong, there's no wrong thing. Like, Sean Strickland gets a bigger fight out of this if he waits a little bit longer. Either it's DDP after beating Shemayef, and that's gigantic. Or he gets to fight Hamza for the middleweight title, which is equally, if not more gigantic. So either way, waiting is a great thing for Sean Strickland. Or, Mike, there's a third option.

Hamzaa Chimayev is not the most reliable dude. Sean Strickland can just be the backup. The man is more than comfortable doing that historically. Just be the backup fighter. If it doesn't happen, okay. Like, oh, if Hamzaat doesn't make it, Bob's your uncle. You're in there.

If he does, cool, you're sitting cage side. You don't need to fight immediately. Like, I'm not saying he needs to go get another fight. I would like him to, but I get that other people won't care about that. There's not a huge, like there are people coming up, but there's nobody really clamoring at middleweight right now. Kyle Barrio and Naserdin, Imov, like they're in the mix, but they're not up next. So be the backup fighter. You got like a 30% chance that being the backup fighter will just mean getting a title shot.

And if not, then cool, then you fight next summer. because Jake is Duplacet is going to defend his belt early next year, seems very, very likely. I know there's talk about going to South Africa, but I will believe that when that actually comes to fruition. I think it is much more likely that DDP is going to be defending within the first three months of next year. Hamzot do that.

Strickland comes in as your backup fighter. Everybody's maybe not happy, but everybody's satisfied, and we can move on with this division and get the guy who should have fought for a title years ago, finally fighting for a title. You know what's better than the one big thing? Two big things. Exactly.

The new iPhone 17 Pro on TELUS's five-year rate plan price lock. Yep, it's the most powerful iPhone ever, plus more peace of mind with your bill over five years. This is big. Get the new iPhone 17 Pro at tellus.com slash iPhone 17 Pro on select plans. Conditions and exclusions apply. Just a tough night for Rob Whitaker. The man has been counted out so many times in this title conversation. He gets to that spot, helps the UFC out, Icramal-Lis-Gariff.

He's got, DDP is saying, I don't care what happens in any of these fights. Robert Whitaker should be fighting for the belt. It shouldn't be Sean. It shouldn't be Hamzot. It shouldn't be anybody else. It should be Robert Whitaker. Robert Whitaker's getting hosed by having to fight Hamzot-Chimai. And you can make that case.

But now he's out of the title discussion for quite some time. He's probably going to be out of fist fighting for quite some time, too, after the injury that he's suffered and get his face mangled up like that. we'll see what happens because middleweight is a juggernaut, and those fights are not going to get any easier for good old Bobby Nux with the Emovoffs and the Boeh-Nichols and the shower of bullets and all these guys coming up right now. It's going to be tough.

I will say this. Of all the people I feel the worst for this card or whatever, it's easily Whitaker. I mean, I know people feel bad about Max because they love Max, and I understand that. Outside of the physical damage Robert Whitaker suffering. for, which again, horrifying, absolutely horrifying. Outside of that, he's in purgatory.

Like, he is fully at Rich Franklin right now, where he's never going to get back to the belt. He's turning 34 in December. That's old in general. Like, not too old, but he's so far back in line now. There are multiple people ahead of him who have beaten him who are more likely to be in this conversation. He's, I think, falling off physically, though it's hard to make that

declaration off this fight. I was actually thinking previously, previous fights, but it's just, I don't know where to go. He has said he can't really make it back to Walterway and that he's too undersized for 205. There's no like late career renaissance that is saving him. There's no salvation ahead. His career is now just, I'll take whatever fun fights I can. I'll keep winning hopefully and can be a beloved figure, but kind of, we know fighters, they want the goal. They want the target. there is, I can't see a foreseeable, a reasonable target for him to aspire to at this point. It's just however many more fights he wants to have and however much more money he wants to make. Yep, completely agree with you. Magga and Aga Laiv gets a big win. I'm sure we'll get questions about that.

Dana White, I didn't really know what to read about that because he was basically asked, do you set up perfectly with all the accomplishments and what you said and then what he said and gets a win. It's a fine win over Alexander Rackett. She didn't blow the doors off anybody, but it was a fine win. And he probably should be next. But what Dana was asked, she's like, yeah, sounds like that could happen. But didn't, wasn't like, yeah, 100%. This is what's, what the deal is. But Magamund Ankelaif gets a victory. Him losing would have been really, really bad for him. And yes, Jed. I'm going to go ahead and say, this was a good outcome for Margaena and Kalli, which I am frankly stunned by. On the watch party, we were like,

Really? Well, because on the watch party, we're like, well, it's curtains. He didn't have, like, I'm not saying the performance was amazing. Good, solid win in a solid fight, a forgettable but consummate professional performance. But, like, based on what our vibes were the thought, I assumed that coming into this postpresser, Dana would maybe not shit on Uncleyev outright, but just be like, I talked to the kid beforehand, told him he needed an impressive win, didn't get it, not going to. the fact that he didn't just outright say, no, that is not a guarantee that Uncle I was going to get there. But I thought he'd be much more in jail than he is coming in off that. And I don't know what the reason is. I don't know if it's just because Dana was way too excited to attack Francis Ngano for reasons unknown.

I don't know if Dana is wanting to just keep his options open for Pereira and where we're going from there and just doesn't want to commit. Because maybe they do ultimately decide that there's enough public interest in this fight building, the maybe they even just looked at and said, well, I can probably beat this guy so we can be less concerned about this. Whatever it was, I anticipated things to be much worse for Ranc Live and that postpressor. And it wasn't, it wasn't a parade. It wasn't kittens and puppies. But it was fine.

And so honestly, he should be like, okay, I kind of snuck away with one there. Let's see if I can make, let's see if I can get lucky and get my title fight. That's a decent point. Or they're like, I think the options thing is a big one. because they could either give him a title fight if Pereira decides to fight John Jones if they go ahead and make that fight because I do believe if John Jones meets Stepe

and he likely will, he's going to call for Alex Pereira and then once John actually says the words, into a live microphone, I think they will do everything in their power to make that fight, which opens the door for Uncleif to either fight for an interim belt or whatever. So yeah, all in all, not horrible for Agamette Ancalaif, good win for Lorone Murphy,

shower a freaking bullet with absolutely insane knockout, the double spitting backfists from hell, the tornado punch, all sorts of craziness. We got a bonus. We got a pause right there after this one too. So I'm sorry, I just want to make sure you're not moving through. We got to talk about that one. Go ahead. Let's do it.

Like, great knockout. You sat next, you sat right here. And you looked at me in my eyes, in my two eyeballs and said, man, that's a great knockout. Is that like, we're like, that's one of the best knockouts of the year. I like, that's going to get some votes. and I was like, manager is my, that's probably, you know, I don't know if it's going to make the top five when everyone votes.

People are going to vote for it. And an hour later, ain't nobody going to remember that fucking knockout because what it's crazy did the Max Holloway? Like, ain't nobody, because it's a cool ass knockout. It is. Backfist to opposite side back fist. That's dope as hell. And not a soul is going to think about that because of the main event.

And that is why this sport is very, very difficult, ladies and gentlemen. win. Yeah. Look what happened with, with Izzo, uh, uh, a,

uh, a lot of, no bonus. My, uh, I can't believe he didn't get a bonus because they only gave three, right?

They gave three performances and they did a fight of the night. Oh, okay. So they gave, what was the fight then? I didn't see that they gave a fight. Oh,

it's, it's, it's, Rebecca Wolva? versus Or Lai. Because that fight was absolutely sick. Absolutely sick. But yeah,

Sharab bullet, Hamzaa Jamiif, and Ilya. get performance bonuses and then the incredible oral buy, Rebetsky. Rebetsky fight gets fight of the night. So let's hear from the peeps. There's so much happening today. It's 7.50 p.m.

where there's Casey. Sleeves. Ready to go. Man is an absolute war course. This Casey lined up super early. We were doing the People's Pre Fight show. And it was darkness behind it, darkness. Like the darkness behind me.

Before we know, the peeps. Casey, Mike and I talked about this a little bit on the watch party. And Mike, if you have more thoughts, certainly add in. I want to know your thoughts here, though, Casey, because I postulated it and I believe this and I've thought about it and I still believe it. Knockout of the year, it will stay UFC 300 for me because of all of the circumstances. It is iconic. It will live forever. It is not the most impressive, which I believe is the main event tonight.

But it is the knockout of the year for all the other parts that go into it. knockout. Number two will be tonight him knocking on Max Holloway, never been done. Unbelievable finish. Number three is also I'ma Tuporia beating Alexander Volcanovsky. Am I crazy that Tuporia now has the two next best knockouts of the year on top of what is going to be fighter of the year award? So Max for a knockout of the year over Gigi, then the second best knockout of the year was

tonight, and the third best knockout of the year was him over Volk. Yeah, that is how my list looks right now. That sounds great. And that's why I 100% agree with you that he is easily the fighter of the year. So, yeah. I think there's going to be less pushback because I thought there would be. I think the fact that he finished Max is really, really wiping away the pushback that would have existed before. Because a lot of people are now coming out and be like, yeah, man.

Like how do you deny him after that? It is unbelievable run. And yeah, just want to make sure I'm not crazy that those two knockouts are also. I'm with you. The best knockouts of the year. You are still crazy. You are correct on that. Yeah.

Four and five might be Pereira. Four and five. Jamal Hill has to be in the top five, I think. Jamal Hill is number four. Yeah. And then the year he was the year one. And the year he one is frigging crazy too. But there have been some other good knockings.

that I could probably move Pereira because we already saw him knockout year the same way. The Jamal Hill one is certainly four and if you want to move that a little higher, I'm actually okay with it. That's the funniest knockout of the year. No,

I got this herb, boom. Oh my gosh. Unreal. What a year it has been? It's been a weird year because like it's this has been a very no gray area year. It's either been like, really great iconic things have happened or it's just like

eh that's fun okay crazy all right Casey what are the peeps saying we'll take some questions all right to the peeps through the beeps and then we'll let people enjoy their night because this is a rarity let's see super chat

I love max this one hurt I wanted to see him against the winner or loser of Charles versus Chandler is Oralby versus Rebekie the fight of the year where do you rent blanket. Let's touch on the last part because I don't know how many questions we're going to get about it. And like you said, Jed, with the Sharra bullet knockout, with everything else that happened, it's almost like Oral by Rebekki is just buried under the pile of insanity that has

happened, even though that fight ruled. Have you had the chance to watch it yet? Are you even able to weigh in on this? Or should I go right to Casey? I haven't had the chance to watch it. I will just say, as cool as, it may be. I have now watched 300 several times over. It will take something very special to unseat 300. I know other people have that wider. I have that tied up going into the fifth round and on multiple rewatches.

I still have it tied up going into the fifth round. Certainly Max was going to win the fifth round before he won the fight. But like, that's just a fight of the, like, to me, that is far and away the fight of the year. And it's going to take something. It is unlikely to beat that. because it's a five-rounder. It's very hard to be a great five-rounder. So I'm excited to watch it because people speak highly of it.

And I could be wrong, but I'll be surprised if it unseats 300. This was not five of the year. It was five of the night. Ed won the rounds of the year, round three being one of the most grueling rounds of the year. Definitely not five of the year. I mean, we had, what was the homeboys that UFC, No-J, the two lightweights. Zelluber and. Yeah.

Yeah, Zaluber was a much. Was it better than the last round of Zell Huber Riebeovich? Because that round was unreal. No, no. It was a great round. It was great. But not as crazy as that. This round, it was different.

This was more of a, we're going to each bash each other's eyeballs in, you know, with ground and pound. It was that type of round. We're like, oh, my God, that guy's dead by just ground a pound and get swept. And, oh, my God, that guy is going to die. But it was a great, it was a great round. It was a great round. It was a great round. But let's go crazy.

Yeah, great fight, though. Tremendous. I just saw a great question. I need to look the answer to. What's the thing that those two fights have in common, Casey? Oral by Revech B. Nal Heuberovich. Lightweights.

Lightweights. Lightweights. Dude, you put two top 30 lightweights together. It's probably going to be a banger. Yep. I mean, you could also say that about Bantamweight. I'm like fair. I get.

Lightweight delivers me. I love that. They did deliver. They did deliver. Yes, for sure. Anything? The second part, the first part, yeah. We'll see.

Yeah, we can't touch on that. But we appreciate that. Here we go. I mean, there's no wrong way to book Max at lightweight. No. Spencer. Live in Barcelona and had to pick 308 over El Classigo today with how Spain backs Ilya and with the personality he has.

Can he be top three pay-per-view star all time, Jed? I won't say he can't. I would not bet on it. But this was one of the narratives after the Vulc when it's like, how big a star can he be? Because certainly in America, people don't understand, like going to Real Madrid and being welcomed by legitimately one of the biggest brands in the world. Real Madrid is among the most popular things that exists on this planet. And they open the doors for him as an ambassador of the nation and their team and et cetera, et cetera.

And that is a huge boon to him. I don't know how that translates to paper reviews in Spain and Europe. What I can tell you is this guy is very clearly a big star, particularly in Europe. And he has the opportunity to become a big star in America. he won't get to Connemar Greger levels as well. Like that's just no, we should never expect anyone to get to that. But this guy can be the, he can be the stalwart of the promotion in a year or two, if not sooner with the performance he is putting on the gravitas he has, the connections.

Like, again, Sergio Ramos has like a hundred million Instagram followers or something insane and flew out to Abu Dhabi to hang out with him and take a picture in the cage with the belt. Like these things add up in very tangible ways that maybe don't translate to American audiences, but due to a global sport and a global audience. So top three is all time is a very big ask. But this guy is going to be one of the biggest stars in the promotion and has the potential to be like he does have the potential to get there, whether he will or not, offer debate. Do you think he can do that staying at Featherwhite? I think the point's kind of moot because I doubt he will. Um, like I maybe and honestly, yes, because he's already so big.

If he just keeps having great performances, like that builds thing and you become an attraction. But I think, I mean, he has already said he wants to challenge for the welterweight belt one day. I strongly doubt he has more than two fights at featherweight before at least attempting to move up. And the UFC will probably allow it. Yeah, he'll fight Volk. And if Diego Lopez beats Mobsar or Aral Jemaine Sterling, he'll fight. fight him and he gone and that's fine at that point he's beating a lot of guys so let me ask you this just kind of based on this question i'll start with you casey it's hard to know it's hard

to gauge and you can use whatever sort of thought process you have right this second who do you think is a bigger star iliot to pourier or shan o'malley oh oh um well i guess coming out the loss I mean, I'll have to go Elya after tonight. And worldwide, definitely, I would say, Elia. I mean, yeah. Really good question. I'm going to say Sean O'Malley. Certainly in America, I'm going to say Sean O'Malley.

And that is kind of bent towards him. But I would not be at all surprised if I'm wrong and that that's Ilya to Porreo right now. Because I think the question is better put this way, not who's the bigger star globally, because I think that's a different question than what the UFC cares about. Who is the more monetizable star that they have? And with the belt, maybe it's still as Ilya. I would still say they can probably sell more pay-per-views with Sean O'Malley right now,

but maybe not after this Holloway fight. Like, there's a bump common because Max Holloway is a star and beloved. And there is a what he did to Max the way he did it. there's a Toporia bump. So I'm actually talking myself out of this and just saying flat out it's it's Lillia Tuporia. I think for making money, like actually fans that pay for pay-per-views, I think Toporia is the guy.

Amali has a young fight, a younger crowd and, you know, maybe the same Jake Paul kind of crowd that maybe don't watch pay-per-views the, you know, correct way. but I think general worldwide Toporia is definitely worldwide I don't think it's a question Yeah and I think that's what actually is more important Worldwide you know I talk myself into with with the Maxville

Like come Monday morning it's I think it's Seporia Yeah what do you think what do you think Mr. Heck I have Seporia without question okay yeah I actually thought it was Toporia before even no like I maybe it wasn't maybe metric wise it wasn't like quite there but if you know the UFC could hitch their wagon to either Sean O'Malley or Ilya Taboria like back in August they're hitching to Ilya immediately because of what he can do for them they go to Spain dude like they're going to sell they're going to sell like 90,000 tickets to when illiates

It's boring a fight in Spain. It's crazy. You have to go. I do not like. Dana should be on the phone this minute with every arena in the country of Spain, preferably in Madrid, but every arena in the country of Spain. Just be like, how I, hey, I, I, when do you want to fight? You want to fight in June.

You want to fight in April. I got, dude, I got the Bernabal on, on the line. When you're trying to fight, homie? Okay. We'd like to book out every weekend. and we'll get back to you on which one we're actually going to use. Like, the Volk II fight must happen in Spain. If they put that shit in Vegas because they're derelict of ideas,

I'm going to lose my goddamn mind. It is not that hard when you have a local star to build them in this way. They didn't do it with Stepe. They should do it with Ilya. And entirely unrelated to this, but I did think of this and wanted to get it out there. Ilya does have the advantage over O'Malley in this conversation in that, and this tracks back to pro wrestling, right?

you've become a star by beating stars. Sean O'Malley beat Peoria-ish. Peorrean's not a big star. He's a star-ish and the popular. He beat Al Javiermein Sterling, really a star. Illyut Tuporia beat Alexander Volkan Kofsky and Max Holloway. Like he just got, he, it's no fault of Sean O'Malley. He can only beat who's there, but by virtue of fighting against all-time great's big-name,

big star promoted fighters, he's getting a lot more juice than O'Malley ever got in that regard. Yep. I completely agree with that. But, yeah, good question. Yeah. We got to talk about this because people are obsessed about it, and I'm not sure why. They still are. You know what it is.

We have a couple of super chats. Oh, no. We just got to mention it. They're super chatting. They've been seeing it out there. What about the 3027 for the Carlos fight robbery? The 30, look, Jed and I are on the same page with this. Can you guys give an argument to why you could see we're not winning that fight?

Because if damage is the most importantly criterion of judging, that fight was a clear Lial win. Okay. Jed, you and I are on the same page here. We both scored it for Lial 29, 28. I left that fight watching it live and you have the benefit of a rewatch, which I have not done yet. I left that fight feeling, yeah, Leal, I have a 29, 28. Don't hate Ronaut winning. And I thought Daniel Cormier especially was very vocal on that broadcast, making it seem like Carlos Lial beat the living shit out of Vernat Fawc Ratinoff for 15 minutes.

If this fight was not competitive, that it was not close, and that essentially Carlos Liao 10-8ed Renat Falkritinoff every single round. That's how he made the commentary sound. And to me, I was thinking to myself, as I was watching this, and I know you were as well, I don't think we're watching the same fight. Because while I think Leal is winning moments and probably should win this one, Renan isn't getting his ass beat out there. Like he's having moments. He's fighting back.

You could make a case he won the last two rounds. Like very, very clearly you can make a case that he won the last two rounds. at least watching it live, got hammered on Twitter by saying, don't hate we're not winning 2928, but also firmly in agreement that 3027, we're not Falk or Tinoff is one of the five worst scorecards of 2024 without a, beyond a shadow of a doubt. That is one of the worst scorecards I have ever seen.

But I don't hate 29, 28, we're not that badly. You have since rewatched this fight after having the same views I have, and taking the same vitriol from the people that I have, where did you land on the rewatch? Where are we at now? Make the case. Yes, this one's actually really easy. I like you.

When I tweeted out my score to MMA decisions, it was 2928 Lial and I caveated it saying, don't think the commentary was all that just. I could easily see that fight going to or not. 3027 is bad. No if sands or butts about it. I've watched it twice. the first round undeniably goes to Laal.

There's not really a credible way to view that round not going to him. And if you look at the judging scorecard, one of the judges I do not have in front of me, so I don't know who it was, not the 3027, one of the 2928s had the first round for Renot. Objectively bad. That is bad. rounds two and three for Renot is totally fine.

Not how I saw it. and not how I saw it on rewatch. Honestly, I flipped it in live. I thought Laal won the third and We're not won the second. And on rewatch, I actually thought Laal won the second and were not won the third. They're competitive rounds. Statistically, in Casey, you always say, U.S. Stats doesn't tell the entire tale of the fight.

109 significant strikes for Renot. 107 for Laos. Three minutes of control time for Renot. 13 seconds for Laos. Round by round, round one clearly goes to Laos. Round three clearly goes to Renot. Round four should, like he outlands him by four significant strikes. It is, round two was a competitive round,

and round three was also competitive, and you can interpret that in various different ways. The idea that Renot was landing more damage, undeniably did so in the first round, much less convinced that he did more damage in rounds two and three, perhaps, and if you scored it that way, like I did, sure it's not a guarantee and he just wasn't given credit for sticking the jab a bunch and it's just we got to be cool with we got to be comfortable allowing leeway the 3027 looks awful and is bad i'm not

telling you to defend that but the idea that this was a ridiculous fight i just implore you to go rewatch it turn off the commentary you will watch a different fight if you do so because i did the whatever the second fight of the evening is, the hold on, I'll pull it up, the Nerdyev fight. That fight was getting boring and I was getting cooked for my scores online. I was like, okay, fired it up, muted the commentary. I was like, yep, rounds two and three are extremely competitive. However, you want to view this is fine. If you're scoring defending takedowns as points, which in these rules you're not, then yes, Lial clearly wins.

He defended a lot of takedowns. But as the fight went on, Farkardinov landed enough. I don't think it's a robbery. And again, still I scored it for Laos. I am not saying I think he won. I'm just saying we got to be more judicious with calling robberies because that's a bad scorecard, not necessarily a robbery. Yes.

And I had people on Twitter tell me is the worst robbery they've ever seen in fighting. Okay. Have you just started watching the sport? Because there have been worse. Rodd this week. There have been worse. There have been worse cards this year. The last paper view.

Yeah, there have been worse cards this year. It's crazy. Jose Aldo freaking losing to Mario Batista is insane. That is way worse. They get M.A decisions for Pena Pettington. I mean. Not one fighter. Yeah.

And that's another big argument that I always love. Oh, Godem made decisions. Every media member scored her for Liao. Well, every media member scored Raquel Pennington beating Julia in a Pena. Yet I still see people, see people, arguing for Julieta Pena. Well, you can't have it both ways. It's one or the other.

It's okay. If you scored her for Lial, then fine. I'm not going to call you a moron. Guys just got to relax. It's all good. No one is going to care about this on tomorrow. You're going to wake up. You're going to go to church.

You're going to go to IHup. Dunkin' Donuts, get your coffee. And you're not going to give a shit about this fight. Tomorrow, don't worry about it. That's the one that really gets me. And I tweets, I was like, I just didn't anticipate this fight being the one that would get M&A Twitter up in arms. That was more, yeah.

Do we care that much? And, like, I personally don't care that Laos back look like a topological map of the East or the Western United States. But, like, we could talk about a lot of parts of this. Just like, maybe it's not a great decision. Certainly bad scorecards. If you lost money, I'm sorry for you. I get the sense that a lot of this, a lot of pushback.

Not all of it is that, but mostly the optics of 3027 read so badly that people are up in arms. And again, it is. The process was poor. Absolutely poor. Outcome is not that bad. And mostly, who gives the shit? Max Holloway has been defeated. These are the things we should care about right now.

Yeah. Max Holloway wasn't just defeated. He was not dead by somebody. That has never, ever happened before. I'm telling you right now, we're not fucker. is going to be in another fight, probably in the next nine months, we're going to be having a similar conversation. So don't worry about it.

You'll see this again. Yep. I literally have about like seven, eight more comments about this fight. But guys, we're done. Well, they super chat. Put them out. Yeah, put them out. They deserve you.

Yeah, yeah. You really want to get your opinion in there. Like, yeah. Okay. The thing about here, another part to this that I do think is funny because we talked about on a live show. I'm going to pull up the judge's name because I want to make sure I get this right. I thought that the comments would be more, hey, what about this judge? Doesn't he suck ass?

And instead, it's still this fight focused. It's not Hadee Muhammad Ali, who also tonight had the Laurel Murphy Dan Igay scorecard of like also was on the Laurel Murphy won that fight. I thought people would be up in arms. but no, they're just really, really about this fight, which is so long. Yes. Thank you for saying that too, because this was not a case where even the UFC thought this was so bad

that they had to pull him from the rest of the card. Because guess what? They have done this many times to other judges and officials throughout the year if they did not agree with it. The UFC didn't even think that this 30-27 or the scores were that egregious to the point where, they left this man not only continue to judge fights, but judge an important fight on the pay-per-view.

There you go. They ain't up in arms about it, and neither should you. I'm going to tell you, I got a lot more issue with nobody giving a 10-8 to Lorone Murphy, or to Danny Gaye in Laura Murphy fight, then I do, even with that 10-9. Like, I think it is categorically insane that Danny Gay didn't get a 10-8.

in the first round of the thing. It's just wild to me. So, I mean, if we're going to talk, yeah, was it the, was it the third round that, the third round, how we like, we compare like, how is that a 10-9 and that a 10-9? Was it that fight? Yeah, I think like, it's like, because people were coming for my throat for giving that 10-8 to I, just like, I love your buddy, but you can't do this. All your score cards are insane.

You're too liberal with 10-8s. He was winning the. round and then almost killed him. What do you need to see for a 10-8? Why are you so reticent to delineate rounds versus other rounds? In boxing, that is a automatic 10-8. Automatic 10-8. Automatic, there's just no reason not to.

He landed like 20 more strikes and had him on the verge of a stoppage. Why would you say that round is worth the same as rounds two and three? That is so nutty to me. It's like, clearly that round is worth more. He did more. He hurt him more. Per the rules of scoring. You are supposed to score it more.

And people are just like, no. If there's not an out-and-out murder, like, I'm convinced if Max Holloway had been ingested with the spirit of God himself and risen up after getting knocked down, people still would have been like, that's a 10-9. If Ilya had spent four minutes just putting the lumber to him, 10-9, he didn't kill him. He didn't bury him in a grave, so it's a 10-9. Y'all got to come off the 10-8s, man.

Workday knows there are two kinds of people in business, backward thinkers and forward thinkers. And when you're a forward thinker, you need an AI platform that thinks like you do. Built to evolve with your organization, workday reimagines how you manage your people, money, and agents for long-term success. bringing all your most valuable resources

onto one powerful platform so you can add value even faster. Workday, moving business forever forward. I agree. I agree. No, Tron 8, we need more 10-10s. Pull up this comment right now. Trouon, Logan, Casey, all 10-8 should be at near-finish.

This isn't boxing. One, Trouvone, near-finish is actually more of the justification for a 10-7. That's a 10-7. Two, one. I'm a little, let me settle down, because I'm not angry at you. I'm genuinely not angry at you. Why would you think this?

Because the idea of judging is to get a good representation of this fight and how the fight overall played out. So in boxing, 10-8s basically happened because of knockdowns, because a knockdown is adjudicated to be such a significant thing that happened, that it's more significant than a tepid back and fourth round. That makes clear sense if you just think about it because we're trying to get a composition of the fight as a whole. Why would you not want something similar? And we can't do, oh, every knockdown is one, though I actually think there is an argument for that.

But a fighter got hurt substantially more than average in this fight. It is just a better picture of that fight. Leaving that fight, I do not want to be Lorone or Dan I gay more than the other. If I was, you get to be on, but like, I don't know, Lerone got. the shit kicked out of him for five minutes, and then kind of won the last 10 minutes. You should want this, not to be more like boxing, but to just have a better view and encapsulation

of the fight that just went down. In 10-8s, 10-7s, God-willing, we put a 10-6 up there, those are better views for the fight in totality. It seems so simple to me, and people are really opposed to it. Keep going. That's it. I got nothing else.

I think about it all the time. It's just like, why would all rounds be the same, whether it's a murder or not? Yeah, I, I, you wouldn't do that for anything, for anything. This isn't baseball. Like, imagine in baseball, if you won the inning nine runs to one, they were like, that's the same as winning the inning one run to zero. That would, everyone would be like, that's dumb. That's very, very dumb.

This isn't tennis. We're not playing for sets. We're playing a fight. Judge the fight. And, but that's, I 100% agree, but the prompt, I think that the mindset is with so many people that it's not a 15 minute fight. It's actually three separate fights.

And almost, okay, you won the first fight. That's just one fight. And that's just not how it should be. And I 100% agree with me. I mean, and I, I'm even, I'm even fine with it being that way, Casey. But you won that first fight way harder than he won that second fight. I don't this should be so like the they we did a whole rules thing we want more 108s because it's better and nobody does it like we we like every once in a while somebody gets frosty and is like 10 8 ha ha but like it's still more do them more more of them I want more 10 10s too but we'll move on I have a whole separate category that's yeah all right uh thank you um thank you Uh,

Trevon Logan. Uh, you guys more super chats, hold on. Uh, Vinny, you paid us five bucks, but you didn't put a question in.

So, I don't know, maybe I'll get, maybe it's just, maybe it's just, maybe we love you, maybe it's happening. Yeah,

yeah, uh, uh, what do you make of Sean tweet? Should he be nervous? I didn't see the Sean tweet. So let me go find the Sean tweet. I'm assuming this is Strickland.

So, you pull up old, Shawnee Stricks. Understand one thing. I am next in line. It's been said. It's been written. January, February.

Me and Trichis Duplessi are scrapping. Go back to Chechnya and wait a few months. Wait, sorry, UAE. You're not allowed in Chechnya. But hey, crypto scams while you wait. I would suggest Fahim that he should be nervous and he feels nervous because that that is a tweet. That's a nervous tweet.

He just saw his title. shot go, bye-bye. Because the answer would be no if there was no tweet. That's a man who isn't nervous. That's a man who knows for certain that he's fighting for the belt. There's no need to tweet if you know for certain that you have

something. If you're not, that's when you tweet and try to push it over the line. That's what I read from you reading that tweet out loud. He is nervous. He 1,000% should be nervous. But I also understand where he's coming from. Dana's been saying for months and months. He's next.

Doesn't matter what happens. He did not say that at the press conference tonight. And he had 1,800 questions about it. Sure, could have said. Back to back to back. And he could have said it. And he said, we're going to the matchmaking meeting on Tuesday, which means his matchmakers may not agree with John Strickland being next in line.

And what's the bigger fight, Casey? What's the bigger fight right now for the UFC? Is it Dricketts 2 plus C versus Sean Strickland 2 or is it Drickest 2 plus C versus Hamza Chimayev? Hamzat. So it's easy. I completely agree. Hamza. I agree.

Especially we had these governments on that side of the world that will pay you lots of money to make sure that fight is there too in their country. So, yeah. Mike, I got to tell you, I'm coming around to the idea that Turkey might just say, you're coming to Saudi. And I know you got a pay-per-view literally the next week. we would like a pay-per-view as well. Back-to-back-up. I don't care. But we want this fight.

Paper-view it. Let's do it. And they might. Sean, I'm sorry for you. It's been said and written. It wasn't written on a contract that you signed, so that don't mean crap. Like, you are just, and somebody put it in the comments. I'd have to go find it.

Not to blame fighters, but I bet Sean Strickland's thinking to himself, maybe I should have fought Robert Whitaker now instead of being like, No, I'm waiting for a title fight. I deserve it. Well, that's what happens when you wait, man. Not saying it's fair. He could still wait and get one. And I actually think it's beneficial for him to wait and get one.

If he's approaching this like a business man, like I said earlier, DDP beats Hamzot, DDP, DDP, Strickland 2 is way bigger. If Hamzot beats DDP, Hamzot, Sean Strickland is way bigger. That's a huge fight. So it's actually, this might have actually fiscally worked out better for Sean Strickland that this happened. But we'll see. We'll see how it all plays out.

Yeah. He doesn't certainly seem to think that way. I'm just like this. Yeah, he is so nervous because I'm trying to imagine like a different situation where like when Aspinall, you know, beat Curtis Blades in a minute and then Stipe didn't get online like, hey, Tommy, stay in England. I still got that John fight. Yeah, exactly.

Steepa, Steve knew what was up. He knew what's up. He knew what's up. Steve probably didn't even watch it. He just went out and. spot fires and like hung out this family. He didn't even watch Tom Aspinall fight. That's how certain he was.

He was fucking John. Thank you for him. A couple more super chats. Oh, I've seen. Yeah, I don't know if you know guys know anything about this. I did not. What a grad surgery for a mouth abscess in June? I'm not a dental physician.

So I don't know if that wouldn't. make that more likely. Hard for me to believe that that is related, but you could, you know, if a doctor wants to tell me, it could be. I'm not sure. I would believe him. Yeah, if you had loose teeth,

don't get in a cage fight. Maybe a coincidence. Yeah. I mean, he was cleared to fight, so. Babo here. Hi, from Tijuana. What a great event. Max still rules.

Rob still rules. But this new generation of winners tonight, Yeas, I'm so excited for the next five years. Thanks for today, you guys roll PS. Casey's still waiting. Thank you, sir. Yeah. Back to Spencer.

Jed, your exact words when Ilya won. That's the best effing fighter in the world two times. I know it's not time yet, but who you all pick in a fight with Islam next year. Jed, you still pick DDP over any 185 or after that. So would you pick DDP over Hamza right now, Jed? probably but I don't feel confident in it I'll say yes but I don't feel good about it like Homsok can just big brother anyone

I do I will say we have seen Homsot I thought I honestly thought this fight would look very much like that if Whitaker could survive and get later okay maybe he's got a chance but like my written breakdown everything I've said like I watched DDP Big Brother Rob like Y'o L big brother Robb like Y'all Big Big brothered him but doesn't have the top hold position. He would get takedowns but couldn't hold or consolidate position.

It was never who he was. I was like, I think Hamzaat can do that. And Hamzad is lethal if he gets to those spots. We have seen Hamzat struggle against one, guys who are really super prepared. Like Kamau Ustman, Hamza won the fight, but Usman is a physical hauss himself. So I think DDP can kind of match force with force there a little bit. I like his, honestly, I like his striking better. it's ugly but more effective and I kind of think that he has the advantage going later but

I wouldn't put my house on it but I will still pick DDP to beat him and as to the first question I pick Islam confidently in the fight there are weight classes Islam is a big lightweight and Ilias is not but you know maybe that changes in a year or two or maybe it doesn't because I don't suspect we have that much longer with Islam all right thank you Spencer next question I think Islam might be the worst matchup you can imagine for Ilya frankly just I think like he's a terrible matchup for just about everybody because he's Islam and his abilities are so his game is so well structured and put together but like the thing that makes Islam's game work that people never talk about is he's an unbelievable defensive fighter he just does not get hit in combination ever and so like

ilia's best work comes in combination and so Islam's just never going to let him get to his spots and can just big brother him and i believe ilia's an unbelievable grappler i don't think you're winning that game if you're committing to grappling exchanges with islamakov because nobody ever has and nobody ever will so i would pick that but also he has 15 pounds on him so you know or 10 pounds on him it's like that's not a knock on ilia it's just weight classes matter and that dude is also that he is the best or second best fighter in the world uh there are lines, by the way. I don't know if you guys saw this or not. Iliate Tuporia

minus 350 against Alexander Bolkanovsky. Iliate Tuporia minus 350 against Diego Lopez. Islam Machachev opens as a minus 400 favorite against Iliad Teporea. Wow. Hypothetical fight. I honestly think that's the correct line. Minus 400.

Yep. Huh. All right. Nice 400. Like, Ilya Tabor, like he is going, Islam Makachep, if you thought Max Holloway was going to dwarf Ilya Islam Makachev, like,

Ilya is going to look like a bantam weight compared to him. Big follow. He's a, that's a big, big boy. That's a guy who could probably, that's a guy who's going to have to cut weight to welterweight. How did, I mean, I believe you,

but how did Volcanowski come this close to beating Islam then? I don't actually think he did. I thought he lost. four rounds in that fight was very, very competitive. But look, like, there are ways, there are ways to attack. And I'm not saying, like, I think Ilya. I'm just, I'm not saying anything wrong. I'm just kind of, yeah, I'm just kind of talking.

Part of it, part of it certainly was that fifth round, just having the cardio to do it. He was incredibly well-schemed for that fight. And people came around to this idea more. I suggested it prior to the short-notice rematch. And after what happened and the rematch happened, yes, short-notice. that kind of throws things a little wonky. I think that was just a really bad performance from Islamakov. He had a tough weight cut.

There's the hydration circumstances surrounding at the different time zone. I think it was just a bad performance from him that I still thought he won four rounds of. Like, Tupuria is going to be competitive with anybody he gets in a fist fight with. But I think it would look pretty similar. Islam doesn't get hit and he's going to win the grappling exchanges. So that's pretty tough for, really? When I re-watched the Mokachev-volkovsky first fight, my immediate reaction coming out of the first re-watch,

because I've watched it a bunch times since was, man, Volcanovsky fought almost as perfect as you can against this guy. Unreal performance. Like, and still are. arguably lost four rounds. And because in Islam didn't have his, I don't think Islam had his true fastball either. Had enough to win.

He still had his junk and he had his change up and his curveball working real nice, paint in the corners. He did everything he needed to do. I thought Volk fought almost as, nobody talks about it. He won both phases. If you could,

if you could implement a master class game plan to fight Islam Makachev, Volk did it that day and still lost. Yeah. And that was my fight of the year for a reason. People have done breakdowns on it. Like, folk was so well prepared for that fight. So well prepared.

And it wasn't enough. Like, if Topori is that well prepared, maybe it will be enough. I will never know unless we see it. But I'm going to default to the bigger guy who I think is 1B, the best fighter in the world, if not 1A. Before we jump, hit the other super chats. So we're obviously very high Islam. But is Toporia the second best lightweight? I would probably pick Sarukian over him in the dark,

but I'm open to being wrong about that. I do think he will, I think he would still be unbelievably successful at lightweight, make no mistake. And the way lightweight kind of is structured right now with some guys on the way out. If you told me Toporia killed Dustin Poiria, I'd be like, yeah, I would totally buy that.

I would pick up for you, Dustin. Like, yeah, like there's some old guys still hanging around that I think he could absolutely take advantage of. Like, I would pick to Pira, beat Dan Hooker. I do think a lot of guys, the size difference, Max gave him some issues with it, and Max has never been a big hitter. I think that that will become an issue for him, like against.

Like, I don't think he would at lightweight. I think he could beat anybody on any given night, I guess. I'm not sure he could put together a 10-fight win streak at lightweight, I think is how I'm viewing this right now. All right. Like, imagine Ilya against Jalen Turner. That is a comical difference of human being in there. Like, just truly a gigantic difference in size.

Maybe I could win that. That's tough. That's a tough ask. I would pick of you. But yeah, it's fun though. I want to see it. If he can get takedown, sure. If he can't, he's going to be cooked.

Body shots. All right. Thank you much, Spencer. We've got some more super chats. Oh, this was a super chat from Vinny that he wanted to, he had to tell us. It was very important to pay $4.99 for this. Hey, guys, I think not enough people have been asking if you think the UFC will head to spade it. Do you guys think it'll go to Spain?

I'm thinking they might go to Spain, guys. We need to have like, honestly, you need to have a clock, like for Dana scrums. It pay-per-views moving forward. 20 minutes, hit the timer, go. And Dana will answer as many questions you can. The fourers get two or three tops, and then you're done. And then we move on. 20 minutes are up.

Bing. Out of there. What was he up there for 50 minutes? I was up there for a long time. I feel like we got to ask seven questions, total questions, but like six of them are asked 12 different times. Come on. I say this all the time.

And I don't want to like shit on people. But just because you're there, you don't have to ask a question. You don't have to. if you have like three or four questions that you have listed down that you want to ask Dana and all of them are taken either ask a follow-up or don't ask anything

it's just ridiculous come on not only do you not have to ask questions you really don't have to be like I don't have a question will you take a photo with me or I love you the most can I please embrace you later like you just

I mean the UFC should obviously not allow people to do that, like that you should just not be a credential media member, but just don't, don't come on, guys. Let's, let's be better than that. I thought PowerSlapp was dumb, but now that I've watched one, it's now the greatest thing I've ever seen. That one hurt. That one hurt. Now one hurt myself. I was like, oh, oh, right. It's not enough chapstick in Abu Dhabi, apparently. What else we got? We got a couple more. Super chat here. not about this event but i can see anthony hernandez versus homzat for the middleweight title in

twenty twenty six also what's next for a little rome murphy at featherweight or aleck or allen anthony hernandez versus homzot anthony hernandez versus ddp that's it baby that's what i'm looking forward to and it ain't now i know that but i i'm very excited for both those fights this may be a controversial opinion i may be going out of limb here with the high take. Other than Drickus Duplice, who I'm obviously going to pick to beat Hamzaa Tchamayev. Fluffy Hernandez may be the most difficult fight at middleweight for Hamzaa

Amzha. I would pick Hamzok confidently to beat Israel Dissania, but would probably pick him to beat Sean Strickland. I'm obviously going to pick him to beat Cabaret, O'Aardine Imov, or whatever. Fluffy Hernandez has to survive two rounds. And then just be fluffy. And that fluffy is a good grappler. That could happen.

That is a fight that I don't know if we ever get, but he may be the most difficult style matchup out there for him. I love this take from you. I think it's an incredible take. And you're absolutely spot on. He is a nightmare for almost everybody in this division. Just because you can't, again, you can't kill him. You can't kill him.

And if you try, you just make him better. It's just a weird thing that he does and he's just nonstop. He ain't slowing down. He ain't stopping. Man, rounds four and five, Chimaev, if he gets into him, he's going to be feeling it. Just swimming through a river of molasses, his fluffy just keeps going. As a tough fight for him if he can't get him out of there early. And maybe he can.

I don't know. That's a hard one for him. I don't know what the word for it is, but like I always say like Conn McGregor when when Conn McGregor, when he's at like 100%, and between like 100% and like 95% energy bar, I honestly feel he may be like one of the most dangerous fighters in the world. Unbelievable. Unbelievable dangerous.

And Anthony Hernandez is the opposite. At 25% and below, you put both fighters just running on fumes. He is like maybe the pound for pound best fighter in that sense. You know what I mean? Like him or Marab. Him or Marab. Yeah.

Like, yeah. That's why, yeah. That's why I kind of love Anthony Hernandez, but yeah, he would have to survive hell to get Homsat tired. He got to make two rounds because that two rounds, I don't, like, it is survival. I do not think Fluffy matches the physicality early. Oh, no. And he has, he can't get his face snapped off like Robert did. But if he makes two rounds, the, the big mo, the momentum meter shifts in a major way.

Yep. you make a homzat Hernandez like sprint two miles do 500 burpees right now and then fight Anthony Hernandez you might have a chance got a real chance you can have a good chance

let's pick him get him have him run through Murf a full Murph yeah yeah yeah basically one of those yeah what do you like next for a little on Murphy Jed

I'll help get my answer tomorrow but what do you like? I mean, it's weird. I did not think he won the fight. I don't think anyone's going to be upset. It's not a robbery, though I really dislike it. That's going back to the 10-8 argument. We don't have to rehash it.

What is he deserves a kick-up? Let's get Chikaze doing. Then he just come off. I mean, that's actually not even a big kick-up. I'd like him to get a little further up. I know he called for Josh Emmett and his podcast. post-fight, I believe. Yeah, I like that.

I think that's a great call-out. We can do that. I love it when people call for fights, particularly fights that makes sense. I think the fight does make sense. Given the fight he asked for no issues with that. Well done the room. Has it been thought since he lost it to Joporja? Am I forgetting?

Did you not remember him absolutely? Oh, the life of Bryce Mitchell. And one of the best knockouts that I've ever seen aesthetically. truly one of the very few times in this sport I thought a man died I've been watching this sport for over 20 years and I have on the I can count the number of times on one hand that I've been like that that person is not alive

and I genuinely thought that Bryce Mitchell was not alive oh scary shit I do like that fight Lorraine Murphy and Josh Jimman good fight all right let's get a couple more Oh, Nathan, in retrospect, what's a more impressive loss?

Usman versus Shemaiah for Emmett surviving Ilya. Probably Emmett surviving Ilya, because that was five rounds, right? Like, I mean, Usman, honestly, big credit to Usman. And, you know, it was a split, right, or a majority. Like, he won some rounds. But, like, Emmett surviving five with DePerea, that's a feather in the old cap right there.

because he got I was there kicked out of him for a lot of that I was there I was 10 feet away from that ass whoopin it was bad

it was tough to watch Cage side because Taboria was just was pouring it on him it was tough scenes but Emmett emma was tough the crowd was super behind him

at the end of it because you just kept getting up kept throwing shots yeah it's probably Emmett yeah last super chat

I'm not sure what this is about but Connor called out Toporia after Toporio fought Max yeah today Connor called out Taperia was there a tweet or something

it might have been I don't know I someone have to look it up I don't know oh yeah I think somebody we were talking yeah whatever Connor calls out something

yeah yeah Connor yeah Connor yeah Connor's smart to like get in the headlines right now let's be perfectly crystal clear

he does not want to fight Ilya I would stay fucking far away from that guy. I would take revolutionary laps around the sun to just get further away from him. I would get on a rocket ship and fly to space to avoid fighting Ilya to pouri of ours, Connor McGregor.

That will not go well for him at all. I will say this right now with absolute sincerity. If somehow that fight happens, it will be the largest wager I have ever placed in my life. I will bet every dollar I can legally acquire on Ilya in that fight. Because Connor, Connor will get money coming in on him because he is Connor and people overvalue him. And he will get dead.

Like that is a public execution. It would not be competitive. Don't do it. I don't care about Connor versus Toporia, but we were kind of talking about this on our pre-fight Q&A, Mike. Are we a little bit closer to this fight? To Conloor versus a warrior? No, Holloway versus.

I didn't see the drop. Sorry. That I can see. Now it kind of makes sense. I still think that would be a really bad idea for Connor. No, no, it's a bad idea. But in terms of just making sense, you know. I think

the MF title I don't think so maybe because Connor does want the stupid trinket it's such a bad idea for him and I would like to believe that he learned a lesson from Dustin Porre I mean like I have a win over

Dustin Porre that's aged unbelievably well I should not invoke the gods by rematching this fight when he's much much better and I'm probably worse and then he did and he got killed and then he got killed again and he broke his leg and everything went to shit

it would be doing the exact same thing like his win over Max Holloway looks great it's not indicative of like where the they were their peaks of their careers at all and if they rematch Max will put the boots to him

so he should shoot or not do it but maybe now it's a little more likely I still think it's not terribly likely I think it might be closer now that we ever have been yeah I saw that come out I was like you know it's like hmm

but I don't think think we're ever really close, but I think we are like a little closer. We're still, on the football field of life, we're on the 40-yard line getting ready to cross midfield with the closeness. All right. One more, maybe one or two more before we get out. Yeah. Mike and Jed, do you think RDA's injury could be a contribution to the end of his career now?

if it's a if it's a fall on tear he's 40 I don't know the injury so it will depend on kind of how that comes back my guess is he will want one more RDA has been out of the like title picture for a long time and just doing me I still like to fight I just want to do this and good at it and make money at it

and I don't want to fight everybody pick my spots I suspect that he doesn't want to go out like this And so if it takes him a year, if it's a full tear, he has to rehab. My guess is we get one more, but you can't be shocked if this is the end. He's already done plenty. He's probably a future Hall of Famer, maybe not like a first ballot, whatever that would mean in this context. But yeah, if I'm betting if I'm putting down a wager and say, we see RDA at least one more time, though maybe it is just one more time.

Yeah. fine you give him the Saroni comeback fight like rematch I don't give a shit like that's it like there's no the Jeff Neal idea was a terrible one we all knew what was going to happen we all knew RDA had less than zero percent chance of winning that fight it was just a bad idea I don't know who's running his career but fighting Jeff Neal you traveled all the way to Abu Dhabi to fight Jeff freaking Neil what are you thinking you gained nothing from beating him and it just wasn't a good matchup for him. So yeah, if you must do one more, you do the legends fight. You do Ferguson or you do Saroni or Joe Lozahn or a Jim Miller, somebody like that. These are the guys you

should be fighting. You should not be fighting the Mick Tebek Oralbys or Batutschke's or the Jeff Neals or the Shopcott Rachmanoffs or any of these kinds of guys who are very good at fist fighting and on the way up. Do not fight any of those people. depending where we're at like a year for now again if that's what it takes for the injury I've heard a worse idea than the tony ferguson rematch i mean i don't want tony fighting but he seems dead set on fighting for a worse ideas or like you said the don'tsoroni one as well like yeah i think and i think we'll get something like that yeah nick dyes like these are the fight like

you just fight legend dudes that's it can we for the love of god pull him out of the uc weight rankings. Just like, it's very silly that he's still in there. So like be done with that. Yeah. Grant Doss is 100% right about that. Yeah.

That it? I think we're good. Yeah, I think we're good too. But guess what? We ain't done with UFC 308. My best friend, AK and I,

we are back tomorrow. 10 a.m. Eastern. We at least get a good night's sleep beforehand. Live edition of on to the next one. We will discuss what is next for. Ilya for Max Holloway

Hamzaa Chimayev for I don't know if we're doing Robert Whitaker he needs a break dead just keep the music going because I have seen some questions our thoughts on Dana's comments

on Francis Singano are that they don't merit discussing because they're ridiculous please continue yeah we'll talk about it on VTL because this shit just never going to go away but shout out to Don Davis he's kept his he's kept his mouth shut

This is very smart. If there's anything we picked up from the town hall, he is learning to not poke the bear because if Don replies, it's just going to get bad. So don't do it. Don't do it. The matchmaking coming up 10 a.m. Eastern tomorrow.

Odds of the next one, and that's going to be a busy week recap in the saw. As we head to Edmonton for Brennan-Mer-Reynob versus Amir Elbaz. For Casey, for Jed. I am Mike Heck. You guys are the best. Good night, everybody. Guys.

did two significant strikes. To the Vox Media Podcast Network. Unwrap holiday magic at Holt Renfrew with gifts that say I know you. From festive and cozy fashion to luxe beauty and fragrance sets, our special selection has something for every style and price point. Visit our Holtz holiday shop and store or online at Holtrenfrew.com.