MMA Fighting - UFC 309 Post-Fight Show | Reaction To Jon Jones' Nasty Finish, Stipe Miocic Retirement

Episode Date: November 17, 2024

Jon Jones made it look easy in the main event of UFC 309 as he dominated Stipe Miocic for 14 minutes before delivering a devastating spin kick to the body that sent Miocic crumbling to the mat, which led to the former two-time champ announcing the end of his hall of fame career. The big question remains: Will Jones fight Tom Aspinall to unify the heavyweight championship of the UFC? Following Saturday's fight card at Madison Square Garden, MMA Fighting's Mike Heck and Jed Meshew react to Jones' brutal stoppage of Miocic, his post-fight interview with Joe Rogan, and Miocic announcing his retirement. Additionally, they discuss Charles Oliveira's dominant win over Michael Chandler in the co-main event and the wild fifth round, Bo Nickal's win over Paul Craig that led to a chorus of boos from the MSG crowd, other notable performances from the fight card, and much more. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Enjoy a Coca-Cola for a pause that refreshes. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Ah, yes, there they are. Finally, we hear the victory horns. And they sound for one, Jonathan, Bones Jones, still the UFC heavyweight champion. He stopped Stepe Meachich in round three. The fight was never in question.

It was not even all that competitive. And John Jones puts Stepe away in round three with a pretty ferocious and nasty spinning back kick to the body. Crumbles Stepe Meichich. Jones walks out of Madison Square Garden, still the heavyweight champion, and Steve A. Mietichich is moving on to the next chapter of his life, one that does not involve being a professional mixed martial artist.

He announces his retirement after his loss to John Jones, and now there's a million questions about where John goes, and we'll discuss that and more here on the UFC 309 post-fight show. I am Mike Keck, and joining me once again, fresh off 8. plus hours of watch partying over the last two days. Jed Mishu. Hello, Jed. Hey, guys.

There are no questions about Orjohn Jones. He was very, very clear about where John Jones will go next. So the end of two wonderful MMA careers happened this evening. And we should celebrate two of the very greatest fighters of all time in their final fight. There we go. So we're going to talk UFC 3. 9. We're not going to do it for very long.

That press conference was, it was a slog. It didn't went for like an hour. Dana went for so long. We got to start capping these bad boys. But yeah, those are tough scenes. But let's talk about it. John Jones, the spinning back kick heard round the world, crumble steep Amyichich.

The fight went exactly the way we all thought it would go from second one. once this became an idea after John Jones tapped zero gone, calls out Stepe, if it happened a year ago, the same thing would have happened, and we just had a wait a year for it all to go down. One-way traffic, start to finish from John Jones, treated Steepa Meitch, 42 years of age coming off of a near four-year layoff,

treated him accordingly, while the interim champion, who has been the interim champion for a year and has defended said title, sat there, cage side, and had to watch Stepe Mietchich fight this man instead of him. So we've had some time to reflect, and a lot of it, what are we thinking here?

John Jones gets the win. What do we have? This is going to be an incredibly boring post show, and I'm sorry to you tuning in right now. Thank you, like, particularly if you're on the East Coast, it's 4 a.m. you're up with us. I would love to come here and give you a fiery impact. fashion speech. But one, I've given you enough of those on this topic in general, I think. And

the thoughts are the same. And realistically, this is going to be boring because what is there to talk about here, Mike? Like, what did we learn? What new thing happened tonight? Nothing. Like, and I know that there is a big segment of John Jones fans who are very happy tonight. And I do not want to rain on your parade. If this is what you want is just to see John perform, and compete because he's arguably the greatest fighter of all time. And you just want to see him fight again. For however we got left, you got that. But for the rest of us, and I am going to paint with a broad brush and speak for many

people, I don't care to watch John Jones compete. I will. I will always watch great fighters compete. I would rather them compete in meaningful bouts. And this bout was simply not meaningful. Once upon a time, maybe it was. A year ago, you could have squit a score. your eyes and at least pretended it was.

But from the opening bell, almost from the start of this, any hope that I personally had, and I think anybody reasonable had that, okay, maybe Stipe actually, you know, maybe we are underestimating Stipe. Maybe, you know, when Stipe says, I'm not going to lose, you guys aren't giving me the respect that. Maybe we're doing that. And then the fight begins, you're like, nope, we were absolutely correct. Sipa is 42, functionally retired prior to this bout, had not competed in all.

almost four years, had not won a fight in over four years. Like, it is, this was what it was. I learned very few things about anything here. And so what I got to see was a functional foregone conclusion. And I'm not unhappy about it. Like, it was legitimately a very impressive performance from John Jones because he pillar to post, won this fight, every phase of it, almost every single moment of the fight. but I don't leave this saying

John Jones is the greatest heavyweight of all time John Jones is the best heavyweight in the world I leave it saying yeah man we all knew what this was happening this is why we didn't want to see this fight I do have questions about John Jones and it seems that they will never be answered and that's okay it's his prerogative

you know he has mentioned I'm sure we will talk more about the legacy what he deserves what he has earned but this was a very underwhelming finished to a monumental weekend. So much happened this weekend. And to end with, I don't even know,

like to end with a perfunctory title defense that was largely meaningless was a bit of a, I don't know, just a drab way to end things, you know? Yeah. And I think there's a majority of the fan base that will agree with everything you just said. And I want to go back to John and his legacy and things he had to say after the fact in a moment.

but Stepe goes in there. I'm sure he made a good bag of money and went out there and just got, he got run over by John Jones. This was everything like you said and like I said earlier that we expected this fight to be. And then as expected,

he announced his retirement. He said, I'm done. No more. Thank God. We're out of here. And Steep A is going to be a first ballot hall of famer. But we're going to talk about John's legacy in a second.

But let's talk about what this fight meant for Steepay Mietich's legacy. Did this have, does this change anything for you? Or is this Stipei just getting the swan song, big arena, big gate against the goat, John Jones, as this was being promoted the entire time, getting that one last payday? Is this what this was? Did it change anything for you? Nope. Just change the bank count. I think Stipe does have an argument to being the heavyweight goat. I do not personally agree. I still have Fador as the greatest heavyweight of all time. I think to me, that it's clear, but I absolutely acknowledge that Stepe has a legitimate case for it. I wrote about this a long time ago at this point.

One of the detractions you can make about Stepe in his career, if you were trying to pick Knits, is that while Steepa was the best heavyweight in the world, for his entire run, there was an idea that John could just come up and take his shit if he ever wanted to. And so perhaps that is now less theoretical and more factual, But ultimately this does not influence steepy's legacy at all. He is the greatest UFC heavyweight of all time.

He is a first ballot Hall of Famer. He is one of like 20 fighters ever to reclaim a belt after losing it. You know, most heavyweight title defenses. Like this guy deserves all the praise and accolades that he gets. And this is, I'm a long time steepe hater. Like I'm, you know, I guess you know this at this point about me. So I don't think this affects his legacy at all. If he had somehow pulled off the win, that certainly would move him up the rung,

you know, up the ladder of all-time grades or whatever. I don't think it would have been massive for him, frankly, just given the context of the bout. But he didn't, he lost, we knew he was going to lose, it is what it is. I super, if there are people out there who will hold this fight against him, you're a very silly goose. Because you, frankly, just shouldn't hold the fight. Like, he's 42 and hadn't fought in four years. Like, you shouldn't hold whatever his performance was. It would be like holding Mike Tyson's performance against Jake Paul against him.

It would be very, very ridiculous. So his legacy is set in stone, you know, the greatest UFC heavyweight of all time. That is not a small accomplishment in any fashion. And on the flip side, by the way, shout out to Steve A.B. And what a career. One of the truly good guys in this sport. And the greatest UFC heavyweight champion of all time. I mean, he holds the record.

He's the only guy to defend it three times in a single rain. He's won at multiple times, had a chance to win it a third time tonight, walks away with a big bag of money and, you know, part of one of the big gate records at the world's most famous arena. So I think it's a top five event. So congratulations to Steve Amy Eitchitch on a wonderful career and making a bag. Speaking of making a bag, that's what John Jones wants next. He is ready to get into negotiations with the UFC.

but he's also willing to walk away, as he said at the Post-Fite Press conference. So we were waiting on the watch party for John Jones to get on this microphone. And Joe Rogan brings up Alex Pereer's name first. Doesn't bring up Tom Aspedal's name first. It brings up Alex Pereer's name first. And Tom is sitting right there. The camera pans to him. And John says, all right, we need to have a conversation.

We need to talk to the UFC, figure out what we're going to do. and if the numbers are what I'm looking for and everything seems feasible, then I will give you what you want. And I truly think that John Jones believes that the vast majority of the fan base wants to see him fight Alex Pereira and not Tom Aspinall.

I think at this point, there is no bigger fight. Heading in, honestly, heading into this, I said on multiple shows that we get this, right? Like, we understand why he's doing this. It is a prize fighter move. Aspinall is the more interesting fight, but Pereira is the bigger fight.

I don't think that's true anymore. I think Aspedal is the bigger fight. I think Aspinall got so over this week, based on being the sympathetic baby face that it helped his cause so much. Nobody wants John. John Jones won the main event. Nobody won more this week than Tom Aspinall.

And all he had to do is step on a scale, made some money, and became one of the more popular fighters on the roster because of how this all went down. Dana White agrees that John Jones versus Tom Aspinall is the biggest UFC heavyweight fight of all time. He has no interest in the Alex Pereira fight because he thinks John will kill Alex Pereira. And I'm kind of feeling like that is a strong possibility as well. and it fell away from the get-go. And then at the press conference, he reiterates this

and says, look, Tom can have the heavyweight title. I want Alex Pereira. I don't want, but he said the words, Jed. I don't want to fight dangerous guys that are on the come-up. I want to fight dangerous, established guys who are champions that will help my legacy out. So at least John is being honest about what he is trying to do. Kind of.

And kind of. And then when he is being asked about Tom Aspinall further, from members of the media, he says, the only way I'll fight Tom Aspinall, and I'm paraphrasing a little bit, but he did say this exact quote, is the money needs to be life-changing, to the point where win or lose,

it doesn't have an effect on anything. And he said the words, I want that fuck you money. I need the fuck you money to fight Tom Aspinall. So you got to hear John during this press conference, you heard what he had to say about Alex Pereira. He is doubling, tripling, quadruple, down that he wants that fight, unless the UFC comes with that FU money for him to fight Tom Asphidal.

What do we think here? Like, did you learn anything from John? Like, it seems like each interview, each statement he makes, there's a new wrinkle to all of this. Where are you at right now with John Jones after the longest press conference of all time came to an end? I have like a billion thoughts. The first one is credit to John Jones, because I want to start with a positive. We'll compliment sandwich him here. Very smart of him to open the door in the most public portion of this. If he had gone right after the fight in the cage with all the people in the arena and just been flat out, I'm not going to, I tried to do what he did in the post presser. That goes over a lot worse. Like the public sentiment there very clearly favors Tom Aspinall.

He's like, I don't want to fight Tom, but Alex Brer get in here. I'll face you. I don't know that the crowd would have reacted to that. And so instead he played it well in the biggest spotlight. He played it to, hey, make the fans happy. To the point, we're doing the watch party, Mike. And people are getting in the comments at me. They're saying, Jed, Jed, what now? See, he did the thing, Jed.

You see, he said he's going to fight Tom Aspinall, Jed. Take back everything you've ever said, Jed. And I was like, he did not say that. That was not at all the words that he said, actually. He didn't mention Tom Aspinall's name. but credit to him because he got that idea out to people, to his fans. A flag went up to his people, a rallying cry. And then much later in the evening, 4 a.m. on the East Coast, when there's just some media

around and it's less popular, it's less in the moment, less people will know this happened. Then he goes back to what he has said all week. The thing that I have repeatedly said, take John at his word. It is, you can choose to believe that what John is doing is trying to pipe up this fight with Tom Aspinall. That is an interpretation of what is going on and perhaps it's right. I would say the more likely explanation is John is telling you directly what he wants and we should take him at his word. What he wants is to fight Alex Pereira. And though he hasn't said these words exactly, he's tiptoed around it paraphrased, you know, hinted at it.

Alex Prayer is an easier fight for similar money. As prize fight and baby, it's a business decision. I don't begrudge him those things. And I, frankly, I am just exhausted of, of the same thing having to be said over and over and over again about why I have issues with it, you know, how this is different from other people's situations, etc, etc. John is not going to fight Tom Aspinall. And I've said this for over a year. year at this point, I think. It is close to. And what the post presser convinced me of, which I've been pretty convinced of the whole time, but just drove it in stone, there is a price because there's

a price for everything in this world, Mike. You could, everything has a price and that price can be paid. But the price is not going to be paid. Dana and his post fight presser says, John has always been, he was asked directly about the things John has said. John's always been well compensated. We're going to make that fight happen. We're going to pay it. Well, somebody asked him point blank. The last time John said these things, it was about Francis and Ghanu. And that fight didn't get happened. And Dana just kind of brushed it off because the truth of the matter is this. John is not afraid to fight Tom Aspinall. He is not afraid of getting into a fist fight with Tom Aspinall. But he is not going to risk the legacy that he has, the undefeated legacy that he has,

anything other than fuck you money, direct quote functionally. And the UFC is not going to pay him, fuck you money, because they don't pay anybody, fuck you money. And so I think it is extremely likely that that was the last ride of John Jones. Maybe in a few years, Henry Sohudo played this card and the UFC immediately moved on, and then he came back. Maybe John does that in a couple of years. Maybe he decides it's worth it.

He gets the edge, et cetera, et cetera. Maybe Tom loses and he can find a way. But John is, I'll stop using the word ducking because, God, some people just hate that one. John is going to, John is lit on this business decision. This is it. I am on this. I will only do this for an exorbitant cash sum. And that, a number that, frankly, the UFC is simply not going to pay them because they never have.

And this fight isn't worth it to them financially to do it. It would be big. Dana says it'd be the biggest heavyweight fight ever. It's not pay John $50 million big. And that's probably the number we're approaching. And that's okay. Because ultimately, Mike, we got what we wanted out of this, right? As long as there is resolution,

as long as John is no longer holding the heavyweight title and not defending against legitimate opposition, I don't give a shit, man. If he wants to just bail on it and go back down to light heavyweight to get the fight he wants, I ain't got no issues with that either And I believe that tonight We have got that

It may take us a little bit Because they'll play the string out But I think that we got the resolution Because John's not going to fight Tom And we'll be done with this In the next month or two Yeah, I got to say There was a lot about that press conference

That drove me insane But I will say this I actually felt a sense of relief When that press conference ended Because I'm with you He would fight Tom Aspinall for an absorbent amount of money, a price tag that the UFC is not going to pay him.

They're just not going to. They're not going to pay that to Connor. They're not going to pay it to literally any fighter on the roster. No one is going to make the type of money that Jake Paul made last night to fight Mike Tyson. And John isn't that guy either. So he is not going to fight Tom Aspinall. And that's fine.

It is a business branding decision for him that, sure, I'll fight him if you hit this number. They're not going to hit it. The UFC doesn't need to because they're, make a floppy jillion dollars every single day it does not matter they cannot fail and they will move on just fine whether john jones fights for them or not hell they went almost five years without john fighting and they were just or almost four years three years whatever he's fought what twice in five years they will be just fine without him and everybody else and here's the thing

one I just as I've asked the whole time just say that if you were just and he basically did one he said in the post show whatever the yes whatever one of the interviews he was like I want to make that Jake Paul money like Jake Paul are making that money you're saying going to pay him and two and I think here is a bit of the disconnect between me and John Jones fans I'm good with him not fighting it I don't need him to fight Tom Aspinall I need him to fight Tom Aspinall if he is going to parade around heavyweight champion because that is what champions do. This is not, I need to see it or he is a coward and a terrible person. It's like, no, if you're going to be the heavyweight champion, you ought to be the heavyweight champion. That's a job. It's a responsibility. And as people

repeatedly said, as John is thrown out over and over, there's always a next guy. Yes, that is literally the definition of a champion. There is always a next guy. So when you want to hang it up is fine with me. I could, like, that is how this works. When it is time for you to go depart, I didn't say shit about Habib retiring or George retiring when he did. It is fine. The issue is not leaving the sport. The issue is trying to cherry pick matchups when you have a responsibility as champion. If he is going to vacate that, that's fine, man.

Like, then we are, everybody's on the same page. Everybody's happy. But if he is going to continue to be the heavyweight champion, He has to fight Tom Aspinall. And if he only wants to do that for an exorbitant sum of money, well, then this problem solves itself because the U.C.'s not going to pay him. He'll leave and we'll all move on. Yeah. I think we will get one more, John.

I think they will ultimately cave in on the Jones versus prayer idea. But I think everybody's going to get what they want here. I think Tom Aspinall will become the heavyweight champion of the world. He will graduate from interim to undisputed. He's disputed. John even said in the post-fight press conference, Tom can have the belt. I don't care about it anymore. Belts do not define who I am in this sport and does not define my legacy anymore.

I've have enough belts. I've done enough. It's all good. So John is willing to give up the belt. You can still do, let's just say July, International Fight Week, you could do John Jones versus Alex Pereira and a five-round main event with no belt on the line and it will do really good numbers. or you could do it for the light heavyweight title. Alex Pereira is the light heavyweight champion.

John weighed like 236 tonight and was soft. He could make 205 again. Yeah. I mean, if he decides to do that cool. But if not, they don't need to. They don't need to. Pereira can just be like, yo, he can do the same thing.

He can give the belt to make a lie of. Say, if they're going to do that, Pereira needs to vacate his belt. If they're doing that and Pereira is still not defending his title, then I got issues with it. But no, like you and I have talked a billion times. I'm super pro legacy fights. Like doing those, like let, let fight.

Because here is the one thing I truly did learn tonight. John Jones is not his best anymore. He's not peak John Jones. A lot of people had a very rose-colored glasses of that performance. It was a good, consummate professional performance. He absolutely looked older. He absolutely looked slower. Steepa looked awful.

And John, while winning every facet of the game, did not, like, they're pretty clearly has lost a step. And so, you have said, from Jump Street, I'm super supportive of legacy of a champion's tour, et cetera. My issue, the issue that everyone has had who is on this side of Goliol, he has the belt. And that's what cocks it all up. If he wasn't the champion, no one would care. But if you are the champion, you fight the interim champion. And so if they're going to do it, great. If Alex is going to do it, the same rules apply, because the same rules apply to literally everyone with a belt.

This is not specific rules to hate on John Jones. It is to everyone who has a title. These are the rules that apply. So, yeah, do that if you want to. That's fine. And John is correct. Belts don't define him. He does not need the title.

And frankly, neither does Alex. They can both bail on those belts immediately. And it would not affect one buy of what that would sell if they put that on as a show. And so that's fine if that's how we want to do it. Yeah. I mean, the one thing it would affect is Alex going for a third belt. But guess what? If Alex Pereira somehow goes in there and beats John Jones, he could fight Tom Aspen all next and then try getting his third belt.

But we'll see what happens. I fell to sigh a bit of relief. John and Tom aren't happening. So we could just kind of let that idea go because the UFC is just not going to give him what he would want to take that fight. I do think we'll see him fight Alex Pereira. maybe sometime next year. They'll make a bunch of money for one more. Won't be for a belt, which is fine.

They can create a belt. I don't give a shit. And we'll see those two guys fight. We'll get into it. We'll watch. Just do the greatest of all time belt. Sure. The goat title, fine.

Yeah, some sort of legacy belt. I don't really care. That fight doesn't need a belt. Just have it. We've proven that the belts have lost so much meaning over the last several years. But John is a big enough star, and Alex is a big enough star right now,

that that fight would sell without any sort of undisputed or somewhat disputed title on the line. So there you go. Co-made event, Charles Olivera, just dominates Michael Chandler for 22 or so minutes. And then Michael Chandler has his moment in the fifth round and almost finishes Charles Oliver.

been big trouble. He's landing illegal shots like crazy. Michael Chandler has been listening to our shows for four years. There's no doubt about it because what do we always say, Jed? Always cheat. No one's going to stop you. And Michael Chandler cheated that entire fight. Multiple fence grabs. It was brutal. We had glove grabs. Charles Olivera was getting pissed off. He talked about it at the post-fight press conference. And then even in that finishing sequence, there were fence grabs. There were multiple shots to the back of the head. And again, I don't blame Michael Chandler for this because the referee, Keith Peterson, Mr. All the Nonsense,

was looking right at it as Michael Chandler repeatedly is punching Charles Olivera in the back of his head. And then Chandler, with his just another great fight IQ move, decides to stop doing all of that, allows Charles Olivera to get his wits to him and allows him to get to the final horn and Charles Oliverer gets a win and is probably going to get a lightweight title shot

against the winner of Islam Makachep versus Armand Taruki and whenever that fight happens, mostly if Islam Makachep wins. So yeah, fight of the night, Jed, we knew it would be. Is the takeaway more on the Olivera side or the Michael Chandler side at the end of this? Twist ending. Neither.

The takeaway is that Keith Peterson should not have a job because I got to tell you, man. We were obviously, it was like the best part of the watch party was that fifth round. It was insane. It was so fun and silly, ridiculous. Extremely clearly. Michael Chandler cheated his ass off and not just like, oh, here's some fence grabs. Like, everybody grabs the fence, whatever.

He truly should have honestly just been disqualified in that fight. Like, I thought about it on the ride home. after leaving the watch party. I was like, genuinely, every reasonable metric that you would look at for a DQ is there. Like he, it was a legal blow. It was clearly intentional. Like he was just actively targeting the back of Charles Oliver's head

in that up like the wonky little face down position. Repeatedly like 12 of them direct punches and elbows directly to the back of the head. like clearly hurt and affected his opponent in a substantive way. And Keith Peterson was just like, bet. Keep going, buddy. He almost won that fight by directly cheating. And it is inexcusable behavior to allow this is also like, everybody knows my opinion is Michael Chandler.

We don't have to rehash that. But this is also a man who has a long history of cheating, of all. All sorts where, and not, again, not like explicable cheating, you know, of the, I grabbed a fence when he was against the cage. People make that reaction. Dustin Porier hates this dude because he cheated like sin in their fight. Dustin Porrey admitted to biting him because Michael Chandler kept fish hooking him in their fight. Like, this is a dude who I credit to him.

We say cheat. He took that very seriously. but like he it was absolutely preposterous what he almost got away with and almost frankly delivered an incredibly absurd comeback as a result of and so my biggest takeaway is Keith Peterson who has been a bad ref for many years and John Inick dubbed him no nonsense but he is all of the nonsense full of nonsense Keith Peterson he should no longer be employed is my biggest takeaway the other is a fight was funny like I was I was I I somehow that fight won't fight of the night. The fifth round was great. The rest of that fight was not particularly good. It was fine, but it was one-way traffic. But the fifth round was so dynamic and interesting, I guess that makes up for it.

But yeah, the other real takeaway is Charles Oliver, that dude keeps getting better. Like, I don't think he'll ever get the belt again just because the guys above him. And there's a short list, but Armin, Islam, I just don't think he will beat them. but this is a dude who was left for dead at various points in his career even after becoming champion and lost the belt and we're like I don't know if he's going to be able to pull this out and he keeps getting better time in a timeout like frankly looked as good defensively as he's maybe ever looked in the cage

and yeah one of the most exciting fighters ever he's awesome and we have to see him fight Max Holloway next oh yeah I want to see that fight so badly I think he would do it it too. I think you would take the BF title fight and then just kind of see what happens. And I think of Arm and Surrogate wins. Like that's that's a no-brainer fight because they're just going to run that one right back. That one fight of the night, John Jones, Oban Elliott and Ramiz Brahimage got performance of the night bonus. Justice for Jim Miller. Come on. Yeah, Jim. Yeah, Jim Miller probably should have got one.

Also, shout out to Charles Oliver. I mentioned this on the watch party. And it was, in fact, to a first guy, I mean, he's already the clubhouse leader in performance bonuses. First UFC fighter to 20 performance bonuses. You know what, 20 times 50 G's is as one million dollars that Charles Oliver has made in performance bonuses in his career. So shouts to Dobrox. Yes. Bo Nickel got a main card win.

I'm sure we're going to get questions about that because that's where we're going in a second. Viviani Arruzo upsets Crini Silva and ends my fantasy season. here at mvathighting.com and maresia ruffi gets a win over a very very tough uh jam is longtop in the first fight and there were some finishes and it was honestly like it was a fine night it underwhelmed like this is overall an underwhelming event i would say uh i think we expected the main card to be a whole bunch of finishes a lot of heavy favorites uh the aro ujo silvo silvoe was probably the one we thought would go to the cards but bo nico was a the biggest favorite on the card somewhere about minus 1,400.

Ruffy was a minus 1,100 favorite, I believe, when that one closed. And John Jones obviously was a huge favorite. Yeah, it was a fun fight because long time was the worst fun. Bo Nagle fight was atrocious and then he tried to gaslight us and thinking that that was good. The whole event for me, Mike, is I just super don't like being gaslit. And there were a lot of fighters doing that tonight. Yeah. Absolutely. So all right, let's take a few questions from the peeps because we do want to get out of here.

It's been it's been a week, especially for this man that is on our right, E. Casey Liden. What a freaking trooper. At least Casey, I mean, Casey, it's still like 1.30 for you. That's pretty late. Where was it? Where was I last night? Oh, yeah, I was in Dallas and Cowboy Stadium. That was wild. Well, Arlington. Arlington. Yeah, beautiful Arlington. Get it right. Oh, my God. All right. Let's go. Let's go.

All right. A few questions. We'll rifle through a few of these and we're going to get the hell out of here. All right. It's at our superchats. $20.20 super chat from Stephen Dawson. That's a lot of iced coffee. Let's go. Appreciate you, Stephen. In February, I've grown my hair for eight years. Dana talking politics made me want to pull every strand out and never listen to him again. should Araujo's win earn her a top contender fight? Charles, another title shop or top contender? Viviani Araujo, the widely veteran, Jed. I don't know if she gets a top contender fight, but that was a good win.

Gritty performance. The issue for Arrucho is she's already fought like a lot of top contenders. And so they're mostly rematches. I mean, that was a good quality win, pulling it out at the end there. not how I scored the fight. I scored it for Silva, not a robbery at all. I think she is just sort of in that middle tier now where it's like, all right, I'll get a win.

I'll get a loss. This is probably not a definitive enough win to be like she definitely gets to fight up. Maybe she has to fight back. It'll just be a timing thing. But gritty performance, good for her. I'm sorry for your fantasy season. You know, so it goes.

And buddy, as to the first part of it, just is buckle up as the world we live in. It's going to be in next four years. I'll be ready. It is what it is. I, you know, you could be upset about it and I get it because, again, my issue is, frankly, not the content. I don't, you know, spell your political opinions. Fine, me. The issue is that, you know, it is the same people who are, keep politics out of sports.

until it's the politics and sports that they want. I'm pretty pro just taking politics all the way out of sports, but it's not going to happen, particularly not with the new president, I mean, the role the UFC frankly played in that. Yeah, it's going to be part of it. So get comfortable because it's, yeah, it's just here. That is the UFC. Sure.

Yeah. And as far as our Ujja goes, every division has a Neil Magni. She is this division's Neil Magne. if you're going to be someone who's going to climb the ladder, you're going to crack into the top 10 and be a true player in this division. You got to beat her. And if you can't, you got to go back to the drawing board.

If you can, we know you're going to be good. That's why Natty Ice is probably destined for main events moving forward at 125 pounds. She went in there and beat up Viviani Arroogio and beat her. So you beat her. You're in good standing. So maybe you keep her to the stars. Yeah. Maybe she fights like Jazz and Jazz DeVizzias or something.

because Jasmine's trying to make her way up. That could be the next test. That's fine. Something of that nature. Good win. And I think we already mentioned sort of Charles Olivera. If Islam wins and he decides he wants to pursue fighting for the lightweight title again, cool. If not, he fights Max Holloway for the BMF belt because we never got finality in that fight.

They fought before and we got nothing out of it because of the unfortunate injury that Olivera suffered. I think you super should not I know that they they said that this is you know a title contender match or at least implied it that's obviously ridiculous to me and nothing but respect

for Charles Oliver I love him he is coming this is one fight win streak and he will already have lost to the champion and the win frankly is over a guy who has two wins in the UFC so I think he should have to fight again

and the answer is He just fights Max in this late, you know, spring or summer, and the winner of that is next up for the winner of Armand v. Islam. And this is clear cut, dry, no issues whatsoever. Boom. All right. Thank you, Mr. Dawson. Thank you, Stephen. You rule.

You rule. You do. Steven. Super chat from Spencer. Thank you, Spencer. I felt how you guys have with this fight and believe. believe Tom would beat John at his age. However, Jed said he learned nothing.

I learned John has more left than I thought. And now I think closer to a 50-50 fight. Thoughts? I thought the exact opposite. I thought John has less. Not that John has nothing. I still think John could absolutely beat Tom Aspinall. Like that is, I saw the opening odds or the adjusted odds on bet online, I believe, was minus

130 Aspinall plus 110 John. And those odds feel right. At this point, I will absolutely favor Tom Aspen on a fight. I would not bet my house. I would not bet anything of substances matter because we saw what John is capable of still. He is a lights out top position grappler, crafty striker, good defense can do a lot of things. But I thought John had more in the tank, frankly, than, again, Steppe did not look good. Like, I don't know how to say that to anybody who think.

Because there were people out there being like, Steepa Leufon's like, no. No, he didn't. He didn't look. I guess if your comparison point is Mike Tyson last night, okay. But like, no, like, Steve-Bey did not look good at all. And John won, no question won every phase of it. But Stepe still hit him. Steve-Pey still, like, had moments of success.

And I got to tell you, the gulf between the athleticism and speed, Steve Amyaich and Tom Aspinall is vast. And that alone makes it an interesting matchup. So I am sad we will never get to see it. I think it would be an awesome fight in the same way that I really wish we had gotten John versus Francis. But MMA has a ton of these matchups that never end up seeming to happen. And I am very strongly of the opinion that this is just one of those. And if I'm wrong, terrific.

That would be great. I don't think I am. Yeah. I felt like if Tom was in there tonight, he finished his steep A in under seven minutes. Probably he finished his steep A in the first round. Yeah. Probably under round. Probably under round.

I was giving it seven minutes, yeah. I am very confident Tom finished his steep. And that, and you know, styles make fights not the same thing. But yeah, like people who think John look good, I think John looked clearly worse than he has looked recently in the last couple of performances. But still, he's at worst, like, the fifth best fighter ever, and he is still close enough to his prime that, yeah, he's a damn good fighter. Like, nobody has ever said anything opposed to that. But, like, he's also 37 have been fighting for almost 20 years. I don't think it's ridiculous for us to be like, yeah, John's probably not, doesn't have his A game anymore.

It's 37, of course. Been fighting for 20 years. This is what it is. Yes. It's okay. he's still one of the five best fighters in the sport right now in my opinion but that's okay it's all good he can go fight alex perera and it's fine there is no more competitive matchup for john jones right now than tom as and all you cannot convince me otherwise maybe francis but

that fight is absolutely not going to happen but i think and i think honestly i think tom is more i think tom is the the tougher fight right now but either way it's not even use of wasting oxygen talking about Francis because it's not going to ask. Or Tom. Or Tom. entirely out of. Tom, at least we could squint our eyes and hope. The Francis one has a 0.00% chance.

Yeah. Great. Thank you much, Spencer. A quick super chat from Chase. Chase. Chase. Is 20 million enough to get John to fight Tom? No.

No. Didn't he ask for 30 million to fight Francis? Yep, and that number is going to be much higher. I'd say, I mean, inflation alone, that ain't the price, but yesterday's price ain't today's price. The price four years ago, because here's part of it, too. John would never admit this for obvious reasons, and certainly there's a big portion of Sandbase

who won't even admit that he looked worse tonight than he has his last four fights or whatever. I think, based on the way John is talking, the things he is saying, John is aware that he does not have his fastball anymore, that he is still an amazing fighter, but that he can feel that he is not the fighter he used to be. And not the fighter he was four years ago

when the Francis fight was first being kicked around. So 20 ain't getting it. I don't think 30's getting it. I think it's five, and a whole bunch of zeros after that five is the price. And that is, I would love to be wrong. I would love to be wrong in the U.S. you to do it. I am deeply, deeply suspicious that they will not pay him $50 million.

He would fight Alex Pereira for, he'd fight Alex Pereira for $20 million. I bet he made close to $15 tonight. But the gate and the pay-per-view buys and whatever his deal is, I bet he made around $15 tonight. He will fight Alex maybe for $20 or $25. He ain't fighting Tom for that. He'll fight Tom for, he said it. I want Jake Paul money.

Yeah. 40 million. It's going to take. Jay Paul made 40 mil. Something like that. Maybe more. Who the hell knows? But yeah, dude.

Yeah, it's going to take 40 to 50 million for him to fight Don Aspinall. And again, not blaming him for this. If this is what he wants, that's being a prize fighter. If he, for that fight to happen, John is going to want this number. The UFC is just not going to pay it because they don't need to. They just don't do not need to pay it. They had their. You will move on without him.

It's for years without John. Like you said, I thought, yeah, you made great points earlier. Yeah, the UFC did fine in those years without him. Just fine. Yeah, they don't need anybody. They will create what they need to create. It's the brand. The brand is the stars.

That's all they need. That's by design. That is by design. That is by. Yeah, dude. UFC St. Louisville. UFC, St. Louisville. UFC St. Louis was Derek Lewis versus Rodrigo Nassimento, was it not?

And at the time, it was the biggest North American fight night gate in UFC history with Derek Lewis versus Rodrigo Nassimento. Then they did Louisville with Jared Cannonier versus Nassardine Imovov as the main event. And that was the biggest fight night event of all time in North America. And then they just went to Edmonton with Brandon Moreno and Amir Al-Bazi. And fly weights, fly weights, with fly weights, and broke the record again. They don't need John Jones. They don't need Connor McGregor.

They don't need Nate Diaz. They don't need anybody. They just need Dana White and those three letters. And they will be just fine. Yep. And again, none of us are mad about it. No. I am more than happy for John to get what he is worth.

I am not more than happy for John to. say, pretend this is something else and be like, well, it legitimately rubbed me the wrong way when he, particularly at this postpresser where he was like, well, your options are either I fight Pereira or I leave, which one do you want? Bye, bitch. Like that's, and then, and then to be like, I don't want to call it a demand. Like, but that's exactly what it is, John. That was funny.

I don't want to call things what they are if they sound bad. But like, it is. Like, that's what that was. Like, I don't want to call it to be demand. And yes, at the bunch by price, because somebody was like, so like, what if they don't meet your demands to give you money? Are you like comfortable leaving? I don't want to call them demands. Like, okay, but you are specifically saying if they don't, if not this, then if not X, then why? Like, that is a demand. And it's, you know, I am fine for you to demand the money that you want to fight because that's how the world works. I am less fine for you to be like, I'm not doing that. I'm going to do this instead or I'm going to take my ball and go home. Like, okay, then. just, it seems like you'd be happier going home. And that's okay, too. That's fine.

Yep. Totally fine. I don't want to call it demands was the funniest line of the presser. I laughed. It was legitimately, because it was right in the middle of John doing the like, going back to the well of the, oh, shucks, I'm such a great guy thing. We're like, because like the, I don't want to call it demands came, I think immediately before him answering some question about something. And they're just being like, and by the way, I want to thank Steve A.

He's a great guy. He's a first responder. I love first responders. I love law enforcement, firefighters, nurses, doctors, all of America. And I'm just so proud to stand up and say that I'm an American champion and I love Jesus. I was like, okay, Hulk Hogan, way to go, guy. What are we doing? Eat your vegetables, kids.

And then she's like, I don't like to call them demands. It's like, okay, John, like we're just living in a whole fabrication of the world you got going right now. Oh, my God. Yeah, that was some press conference. It was all over the place. Is it over yet? The press conference is over yet? It's still going on.

All right. I am going to do, I'm going to use, I don't want to call them demands all the time. My first time. I can't even miss that when he said it. Oh, man. I laughed and then I had to rewind it to make sure I heard it right and then I laughed even harder when I realized that I did hear right outstanding my next time I do anything it's not a demand but if you don't do it I'm not going to do it just don't call it a demand I'm not going to call it something else I'm going to call it suggestions

that have consequences All right, I think he should. Oh, quick, quick follow-up from Chase, another super chat. Super chat follow-up. Chase, clearly worse. He looked way better than in the Santos and Reyes. That's probably the best he's looked since 214. Well, he fought, he fought Steepay.

He fought a 42-year-old man who should not have been in that fight. Santos Reyes, and they're prime, you know. And by the way, Santos had one leg, and John almost lost that fight. He had no legs for a lot of. that fight. He didn't look better than those because, like, competition matters. Yeah. Like, yes, I guess, like, in some weird way, sure, he looked better than those fights.

Those, he was, those fights were less more than this one. But also, I can't stress this enough, Stepea looked really bad. And I think some people don't think it because he looked in shape. Like, he did, but Steve A look, somebody in the chat said he looked primordial. real and I was like, that is a terrific word. Like, he looked low in the air, man. And so, yeah, John, John looked like a slightly diminished version of himself because he's 37. It's in frontly fighting in a weight class that isn't his.

He's not a heavyweight. That, like, he just isn't. He's a big light heavy. He's not really heavy. Yeah. Yeah. This was perfect. This is what, this is, that fight is what we all knew this fight was going to be when

they first announced the fight was going to happen. And especially after it didn't happen last year and the layoff became longer and longer. And Steepay, as we all do, got older and is 42. And he looked tremendous for a 42 year old. And he did have his moments, but he looked like he was, to steal a quote from Damon Martin on Twitter, Stepey looked like he was fighting in quicksand, the entire fight. He looked, John saw everything he did a mile away. sure, steepe still landed some punches

and there was a part of us deep down inside that wanted to laugh hysterically had Stepe somehow pulled this off. But you knew pretty quickly into this fight that he wasn't going to. So, it's just life. This whole weekend was just like, here are the most obvious things

and people just tried really hard to trick themselves into not like, yeah, the 58-year-old dude's going to lose to the 27-year-old. And yeah, the 48-year-old guy who has not fought in four years is not going to be quite possibly the greatest fighter of all time. I guess these were very obvious. Do you know why? They were different than they were. Yeah.

Do you know why? Because members of the commentary team in people who were part of the broadcast and part of the company kept pushing this narrative. Oh, Steve-Bes being disrespected. Oh, John's prime for an upset. Like all these different things That was just ridiculous Like DC And I understand that he's fought

Stepey and he's fought John And you know He can he can have a take or two Like it's all good And it is a fight and you know Maybe John could have slipped on the banana peel And lost the belt It could have happened

But he has also worked for the UFC And it is his job When he's doing these shows Especially when he's appearing on ESPN To sell pay per views It is his job to sell pay per views So when he's putting out a narrative saying like, oh, I think people are completely overlooking Stepe, don't be surprised if he leaves Madison Square Garden with the heavyweight title. It's so you can spend $85 to buy the pay-per-view.

He's doing what he is asked you do. Yes. So, yeah, people bought it. And that is promotion 101. Just like people bought into Mike Tyson possibly knocking out Jake Paul and people being very serious about this that they thought it was actually going to happen. people calling for it they truly believe that my tice was going to go in there and dust up jake paul what an amazing weekend how how how eerily similar both these fights were but it's very very strange it's it's really remarkable actually how this how the it was

what was our what was our what was our thing all week jed what do we say on btl and all the shows leading up to this if this is for you yeah not even that If this is for you and you're into it, cool. And we're not here to, like, be negative nancy or anything. But at the same time. Yeah, it wasn't a bad watch. But what we kept saying in the build was we weren't excited for Friday and Saturday. We were excited for Sunday for this to be done and we can move on with our lives.

We know this needs to happen. We have accepted that this is the reality we live in. But boy, are we ready for a reality where we can talk about UFC Macau. and Peotre Jan versus Davis and Vigureto, because that fight friggin rules, and we can just put this all behind us and move forward with our lives. And now we're here.

And yes, we get to talk about John Jones and what's next on onto the next one tomorrow. And sure, we'll talk about it on BTL a little bit, but by the time, like Friday rolls around and we're doing a preview show from a cow, like we're off. We're off, we're off this. We're on to other things.

And I'm excited. I am too because like truly especially this fight week it kind of stuck me the longer when fight week went on and there's been a bit of this looming but like this was so unnecessary that we were just looking backwards functionally for like for the heavy like we're doing this with maybe the hope that we'll get the tom fight and I guess that hope can still exist if you want to be a truth or believe that that might happen believe maybe you can make it happen with the sheer power of belief. But just, hey, it took us 20 months to get this fight that even at its peak was like borderlines us.

And we're finally through it. And now whatever comes next comes. And that's, that's cool. Because what comes next weekend is actual good fighting that is incredibly relevant and dope. Because Figgy versus Peoria on, like, if Figy wins, and you're talking to me here. You know my thoughts. I've said very clearly my thoughts.

If Figgie wins, he is the most deserving Bannamweight title challenger. He should get a title fight over Umar. And I love Umar and think Umar is the best band of Wayne on earth. But if Figgie beats Piotr-Yon, I think he's an undeniable title challenger. And that's like, to me, that's largely what this sport is about. I have fun, same as other people do with silliness. But I mostly want to see the best guys fight the best. I want to see a relative meritocracy.

We're now going to get to go back to that, even if only for a while. I'm sure we get derailed again by something silly. But, you know, we did the thing. Now we can move. Yep. Completely agree. All right. Let's finish up these last super chats.

Do we? Here we go. Spencer, no, wasn't the fight, but enjoyed seeing John back feel special when he fights was screaming. Achilles himself couldn't beat this man. Killies himself could beat this band after. Oh, yeah. You all notice Al J. versus Mubbos are not on the main at 310 on odd move.

Yeah. Want to know what's even Otter? They're doing two other fights in the same division on the main card. By the way, Nate Landward, Doho Choi should absolutely open the main card. It's a banger. But Bryce Mitchell versus Crone Gracie is on the main card over Al Jermaine. versus Mozart of Lov? What the fuck is that?

That is weak. That makes no sense. It is on a heat check right now. Oh, my God. That is very silly. It is early and they could obviously change it, but. Yeah, they could change. First of all, that fight, that fight itself is weird and silly and makes absolutely no sense

because Crohn and Gracie looked horrendous in his last fight against Charles Jorday. Like, to the point where we're just like, okay, this dude should never get a, another UFC fight because he looked so bad. And now you're putting him on a, you're putting him on another main card against Bryce Mitchell when you have legitimately, like you have a potential, you have a probable number one contender fight here.

Like an on deck fight between Al Jamein Sterling, it moves are of loyiv. I don't, it could change, but yeah, super, super weird. And, yeah, John brings an aura. There's no doubt about it. It is special when John fights. There's a different feeling when he is around, and it draws interest, no doubt.

But yeah, that's it. On the most, I think my guess is that they are going to make that the prelim main, you know, get more eyeballs on it as a potential. I honestly think it would just be better to put Doho Cho and Atlanta there because that fight is going to rock and you get all the momentum in the world heading into the pay-per-view portion. But whatever it could change, we'll see. Yeah, and like, if you're a John Jones fan, I get supporting this fight. Like, and I mentioned this on the watchboard, too, like, I'm not here to cast stones.

There have absolutely been times where I've rooted for a fighter and been like, it would be way cooler if he got to fight this fight because I know he will win. And I just get to see my guy be awesome and that rocks. And like, lobby for that. Enjoy it when it happens. But like, there also has to be a piece of view that. recognize. It's like, this can't be the basis for the sport. This can't just be, oh, I like this guy, nothing but squash matches for him forever when he's

holding the title. And so, yes, John brings an aura. Yes, John, we, you know, this is going to do very well on pay-per-view. I had, you know, people reaching out after, you know, beforehand after the Tyson stuff to be like, hey, John Jones fighting tonight. Like, this is going to do very well. There is that sort of aura. for me, you know, I don't have an emotional attachment to John in that way.

And so I would like to see John fight real fights that I do not know the outcome of beforehand. That was always my biggest issue. I'll give you my two biggest issues. Is that a demand? No, no, no. It's a suggestion with consequences. Not even consequences. I don't want to call it a demand, though.

So here are two of my biggest takeaways from the entire night. And one of them involves this question with John Jones and feeling special and all that. The amount of DMs I've gotten since the watch party ended, especially when Dana did his press conference, has been wild. See, Dana is going to force John Jones to fight Tom Aspinall. And I'm like, okay, well, are you listening to what he's saying right now? He's saying that John is not going to be fighting anybody else.

I'm like, all right. I was like, you're going to find out something. probably before Dana gets off this dais. And then it happened. Then it happened where Dana White said, and I quote, I mean, if these two guys keep hounding me about it, maybe I'll make that fight. And I was like, there you go.

There you go. Nothing is ever definitive. Dana sees dollar signs with that fight. And rightfully so. He's a businessman. But as soon as he said that, I was like, done so. part, Mike. The best part was that somebody said that to him because Dana was on his, I don't even want to make that fight. John would just kill Alex. So there's no, what's even the

point? And somebody, maybe it was Oscar. I don't know who it was. But somebody was like, well, the point is money. It would make money. And Dana kind of looked at him and it was like, yeah, actually, you're right. It would make a lot of money. Like, it was truly one of the only times I've ever seen Dana functionally admit to like somebody else being right. It was like, yeah, you're right. that would make a lot of money. And so then at the end is when he was like, maybe if they start hounding me, he was like, yeah, you're right.

That would make a lot of money. Because it was. Yes. It was incredibly funny. Yeah. It was great. But there were some gym moments. And it was like,

absolutely, for sure. He just kind of shook his head. He was like, yeah, they'll make money. And then my other, my other takeaway is Michael Chandler is officially the UFC is Nate Diaz where he got he got pillared and posted for pretty much this entire fight by Charles Oliver like Charles Oliverer dusted him

except for Chandler landing a big right hand and that a whole bunch of illegal stuff happened after and he still didn't finish the fight so he lost badly to Charles Olivera even got 10-8ed on one of the cards but he is now literally closer to a Cona McGregor fight than maybe he's ever been. Ben and he still got dominated

and he still got over he still got the ovation he got a bonus for a fight he got just mollywapped in from the beginning and he is more over now than he was heading in and he was not really

all that competitive with Charles Albert at all. That's why you should have been fighting for the past two years I've been fine. Yeah. You get to have picked up like three more paychecks and done the same thing. He cuts the promo and I think Connor probably saw what Charles

Oliver did tonight and was like I'd probably beat that dude yeah I think I need to fight this guy when I come back if I come back I'm fighting him so yeah Chandler is very very much still in the Conner I'm absolutely king just just got wheeled on for 22 minutes and then he gets a promo and like

puts himself over it was just like you know he cheated the whole fight sheated aggressively I was born to just be American chaos or whatever the documentary he said was. Data White compared him to Arturo Gotti at the press conference. Like, it was so good. Honestly, That is honestly actually like a legitimately really good comparison. It is.

Actually, maybe Mickey Ward is a better comparison because Artur Gotti was like a champion. Mickey Ward was only like kind of a champion. But like, yeah, it was. I truly, I'm not sure I've ever seen a fighter lose and then act as if he did it in the post-fights. He's like, he got a post-fight promo that was as if he didn't lose at all. I'm not sure I've ever seen that happen. It was ready to go. How many non-championship fight losers, non-main event, non-champichet fight losers get in the view.

Very rare. Very rare. But like in a five-rounder, sure, you might see it more in a five-rounder. rounder. But the first question is it's always what they ask Steve. Like, how do you feel about the loss, blah, blah, blah? And I don't even remember what Joe's prompt was because Michael Chandler was just like,

I was born to be American and kick ass. Ah. Okay, cool. See you at the top. All right, man. And then he called, I wish I didn't hate him because I would love Michael Chandler, but I didn't hate him.

Like, he is a deeply silly fighter. Like, I should love Michael Chandler. I should love everything about Michael Chandler because he is honestly kind of like a lightweight trick is too much in a lot of ways. And yet I can't stand him, but it's right there. Love and hate.

They're two sides of the same coin. And I would love you. This is really late. And I should be such a fan of what's happening in this, right? Do we have anything else? A couple more super chats. It's just five room. It's fired through, sorry.

Spencer, I am also a big fan of Achilles himself couldn't beat this man. It's a great line. It's a bar. Left lane, out of all the potential go versus champ matchups, which would be the most egregious and what would the odds be slash

who would have had the best chance to win? Go versus camp matchups. I don't know how to think of this. Yeah, it's too late for that. that question. My brain's, let me noodle on it, but I can't.

I'm not even sure with that. Which would have been the most egregious. I'm trying to think of other ones that. I guess we're just talking about like. Brock Lozzer versus Daniel Cormier? That's a really good one. There's a really good one. Honestly,

I'm not sure that there is a better one than that. That didn't happen, but like it was very much going to happen. Yeah, which would be. the most egregious and yeah it would be fadoor versus randy is that is that what we're talking about i'm not i'm not i'm not i'm not i'm not sure the question i think we're talking about uh champions getting garbage fights um yeah that's um that's um like money oh okay sorry sorry i'm i'm misinterpreting

it yeah i mean look like gspfing is egregious it was it was it was a time it remains egregious it is almost identical to what john has done i will say john's move up is better than jordan mad mad user's voice greasy is another one i give a very slight amount of acceptance to that because i was a fan at the time and there was just nothing out they had nothing else going on at that point of time yeah it's true but we kind of knew it's a different era but yeah but uh you uh you Yeah, like credit to John, though, he at least did fight multiple times in the new weight class. Where's George, like, shamelessly just picked a champion. And it's like, I'm going to do this now.

Sneak on in here. Also, very similar. Bisping Hindo and Hand up, I argued for that fight. I'm not all the way proud of it, but Bisping getting a title of defense against Dan Henderson was some shameless shit. Yeah. And if we're being fair to all parties, Fador's retirement fight being against Ryan Bader again. Which I,

yeah, which is like, I don't know. They don't wanted it, apparently. Oh, left lane is now throwing in, I think,

clarification of currently what current goat versus champion fight that feels like what this is happening. He's doing DJ versus Pantoja, Marov versus Cruz. DDP versus Anderson Silva is, is probably the, answer that would be terrible we should not do that Henderson is 45

we do not need to do that you can't do you can't do Habib Islam it's just yeah you don't want to BJ Penn Islam right now if you're putting BJ up there I don't care that would actually be horrifying I actually I think I would not watch that fight I just like I don't need that in my life

yeah All right Illiot Soporia versus Josealdo that would be fun as hell though I mean that was Torio was win though It'd be dope

GSP Bilal be an oddly weird fight I mean I have to assume Belal beats him Yeah which is because of age But yeah Yeah Yeah it's just

All right Thank you left lane 45 year old chend Friggin fight Oh yeah that's just Yeah Yeah we're talking like current age Yeah sorry I'm just

I'm trying to see me But yeah All right start making me think so much this late, left lane. Yeah. All right. Two more questions and we're out of here.

Christop, the UFC isn't going to pay people that high because of the financial pressure from Endeavor. Endeavor is still paying the billion dollar debt. This is just not true. Yeah. This wouldn't happen either way. Endeavor does not care about the debt.

They do have a carry, but they've paid that carry down substantially anyway because they are literally making like $600 million. a year or some shit, some absurd number. They're not going to do it not because of the debt burden. They're not going to do it because every dollar they pay to a fighter. And this is not, so we're very clear, this is not just for the UFC. This is literally how all companies work.

Every dollar that goes to your employees, you do not keep. And Dana and Endeavor and TKO would like to keep as many of the dollars as they can. So they will pay the employees as little as possible. And they do not need paying John Jones. If they paid John $50 million, it would not, I strongly doubt that that would raise the input of money that they get from this fight. Like it just won't generate that same revenue back. So they're not going to do it. All right.

And even if it would, they won't do it because they don't want to set the precedent. because the entire goal of that company is they are never going to set a precedent that other people can ask for fuck you money and get it. They just, it's never going to do it. Yep,

a fighter will never be bigger than those three letters ever again. Correct. And I just want to hear your, not a super chat, I'm really interested in your opinion on this one. Why is Tom Asson, and I'll still the interim champ,

what's the point? I think we know the answer to this question. It's the same reason Robert Whitaker is the middleweight champion while GSP is the champion because there is a real chance that John Jones is not defending that belt ever again and they need to promote somebody to carry the belt. Tom has a belt and he will be the rifle undisputed champion once John vacates or is stripped or is no longer the UFC heavyweight champion, which I predict is going to happen. He will no longer be the heavyweight champion sooner rather than later.

He'd still go on and fight Alex Pereira and no one will care. hair that there is no belt on the line. When in previous history, you see if John retires, which I'll never like officially retire. So I don't know, I don't know when this ends. When, when would this interim champion thing in? When the fight, when the fight gets made or John vacates the belt. It will be like what happened at light heavyweight, only there will be a belt to, to ascend. Where John's just like, yeah, I'm done.

I'm going to go chase Alex prayer fight. Okay, you vacates, a little send. It is, to the point of the question, this is interim titles should exist and historically have existed. So that when you have the interim, you do not defend the interim. You unify the interim. And so it is always weird when a undisputed champion has a fight that is not against an existing interim champion. But Tom is going to hold it until either he fights John and then it's a unification or John vacates or the UFC forcibly vacates him, which, you know, probably a few months, I would say, they'll let it exist.

They'll try to negotiate. John will price himself out. The U.C. will say no. Like, we've, I can't stress this enough. We have seen what happens. We have seen this exact story. It is literally what happened when John was the light heavyweight champion. And the UFC was like, you're going to fight Dominic Reyes again because he beat you.

And he was like, no. here's my belt back let me fight Francis and they were like okay would you like to do it for $40 and he was like no and then it's just going to be that exact saga only with

a different coat of paint did John vacate or is he stripped to Atreepuress? I believe he vacated he vacated whether he vacated because it was an ultimatum given to a demand was made to him or not I don't know but he

he vacated and was like, I'm going to go to heavyweight. Three years later, he went to heavyweight. Interesting timing. Just saying. And then Dominic Reyes, he's a little shot and got knocked up by Jan Bohovic. So the only times I can remember a interim champion being stripped was Tony Ferguson. Hey, what was it?

Tony, Colby also got stripped. Coble got stripped because they were going to do a unification bell with tire. Yeah, they were going to fight with Tyre. They were trying to do a unification. identification about with Tyrone Woodley and I guess he wanted some demands that the UFC was not willing to do or suggestions as we've learned today not demands and they were just like okay Colby's not the interim champion anymore tyrant's gonna go fight somebody else when they took the belt from Colby really funny because Colby's belt was a sham anyway and then they were just like

that's a fake ass belt and it is it ain't your fake ass belt anymore son yeah so there is precedent obviously with the interim champion stripped but you cannot punish Tom Aspinol in this situation. Yeah. Because Tom will fight who I like Tom will fight. That's the biggest difference. Yeah. That's the biggest difference. Yeah. John said that a bunch of the presser.

I'll fight whoever. I'll fight whoever Agatha says. It's like, no, you just said you won't. You literally just said you won't do that. It's like, I'll find whoever they don't want. All right. We're just, we're just saying words, man. We're just saying shit.

We're just saying shit. And the last thing, um, before we get out. And actually, I think this is kind of maybe one of the biggest things of the whole night that we really have even talked about at all is goodbye steep. Yeah, man. It's just like all this stuff and like one of the greatest, in a lot of people minds, a lot of people's opinions, the greatest heavyweight ever is leaving the sport forever. And it's just like it's like the 10th story of the night it feels like the weekend. It's just, it's kind of, I don't know. You want to talk about someone who has weight lifted up their shoulders and was breathing a sigh of relief?

I don't think anyone breathed a bigger sigh of relief than Steepa being able to officially say I'm done fighting. He is not going to turn down a John Jones fight. Like that was literally the, because everyone's like, oh, what does the Stepey fight time? This is not going to do it. $8 million. Yeah. Yeah, he probably made more than that. He probably made $10, 12 million bucks tonight.

Overall, once the pay-view buys come in and all that, stuff. He was going to fight John or he's going to fight Francis and that's it. Francis left. There's only one man left. And when John called him out, he's like, you can see it on his face. He was like, ah, shit. I have to take, I have to do this. I have to set my family up. But Steppe would have been just fine not fighting John and just being a firefighter and a dad and a husband for the rest of his life. He would have been way happier than doing Fight Week this week. He would have enjoyed life way more. So he was ready.

He's been ready for a long time. He's been ready since Francis beat him, I think. And now he could finally say, okay, there's nothing left for me. I could be done with this. I've had a great career. I've accomplished a lot. I'm still widely considered as the greatest heavyweight champion in the history of this company. And now I could do what I love to do and just be happy.

And Stipe can be happy for the rest of his days. So salute to Stipe. He did the thing. He got a big fight with John Jones. And you get one last big pay day. Now he can be happy Stepe. And Happy Stepe is a happy Stepe. What else can I say?

Yeah. The most Stepey retirement ever. It's like, you know, kind of mumbling. Yeah, he's good. Just one greatest ever. I'm done. Bye. Thank God.

Six words. Thank God. Six words. A wedding. I love that. I want to leave us on this note. What if? Stepe is 42, as we've mentioned many times.

We know there's a young man out there who likes to fight the olds. There's now a retired old. You think Dana might, Uncle Dana might cut him loose to go cleanse us of the Jake Paul issue? I, look, is it silly? I was feeling real good about babies. I am honestly kind of in on Jake Paul versus Steve. Because at least he's big. At least he is a big person as opposed to a small,

whole person. You just made me so sad. I don't know. Little battle of Ohio. They could do it in Cleveland. Come on. Happy trails, Steve, Vichich. I'm glad you enjoyed.

I'm glad you got paid for your last fight. See, look, people are already saying Steve it would knock Jake out. This is the fight to make. You're insane. You're all insane. We don't need this. We, we all, the biggest part of this week was getting through this week. And now you want to set us up for another one?

Who should John fight? Mike Tyson, just swap them out? What are we talking about here? Yes. Good night with everybody. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Unwrap holiday magic at Holt Renfrew with gifts that say, I know you.

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