MMA Fighting - UFC 311 Results & Post-Fight Show | Reaction To Islam Makhachev, Merab Dvalsihvili Title Wins

Episode Date: January 19, 2025

Islam Makhachev delivered against short notice opponent Renato Moicano in the main event of UFC 311 on Saturday night at Intuit Dome in Inglewood, Calif., so much so, that Dana White finally had to admit that the lightweight champion is the No. 1 pound-for-pound fighter on the planet. Following the UFC's first pay-per-view event of 2025, MMA Fighting's Mike Heck and Jed Meshew react to Makhachev's quick win, what could be next, and how Arman Tsarukyan could fit into things at 155 after his withdrawal. Additionally, they discuss Merab Dvalishvili's successful title defense against Umar Nurmagomedov in the bantamweight championship co-main event, where Nurmagomedov goes from his first career loss, the incredible battle between Jiri Prochazka and Jamahal Hill, both fighters' stocks rising after the fight between former light heavyweight champs, and much more. Follow Mike Heck: @m_heckjr Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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But first, there, the last one. Enjoy a Coca-Cola for a pause that refreshes. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Hello there, everybody. We are back. UFC 311 is in the books. It is come and gone. And in the end, the quasi-victory horns here,

they sound for two men. They sound for a lot of fighters, but more specifically, They sound for Islam Makachev, who remains the UFC Lightway Champion after submitting Hanata Moikano in round number one. Did it with relative ease once his fight went to the mat. And also, they sound for the UFC Bannamway champion. Marab to Walsh, Billy. He goes in there and defeats Umar Nirmagamadeov, hands Umar Namauga made up his first loss,

wins be a unanimous decision and remains the Bannamway champion. A lot of other stuff happened on this card as well. We just wrapped up It was a night of and still Yes, we just wrapped up the UFC 311 watch party And now we're back to react to all the action I am Mike heck, that is Jed Mishu

Jedd overall And I know we're gonna have a review And write some stuff about this card What do you grade it overall? It was really good man It wasn't I was so high on this coming in And we talked a lot about it prior to the change

This was a three Meshule and Stark card. I thought this was amazing. Obviously, I think the change takes it down a little bit, but the card mostly delivered on our expectations. The prelims, there were a lot of dull spots. A lot of, maybe it's not the most interesting, but we also kind of knew that was baked in. This was a very main event or main card-centric fight with a really good main card and a couple of other good notes. We still got some really big, surprising, interesting upsets on the undercard in the prelim, and then the main card delivered. Roner de Ritter. Raneer and ran roughshod right over Kevin Holland. It was terrific. That was fun and enjoyable for me as a Ryan and Gertor fan. What was the next? The next bout was Jailton Almeida. That was surprisingly funny.

He's got some hands on him and gets that done in the first round. The fight of the year thus far, very early, obviously. But the fight of the year thus far belongs to my guy, Yuri Perashka, Jamal Hill. He gets the finish in the third round after a pretty insane battle back and forth. Jamal Hill. Terrific fight. Earned a ton of respect. We're going to talk a lot about that fight, I'm sure.

Co-main event, Marab pulls off a significant upset, not a massive one, but a big one. We talked a lot about what this means for him. We'll delve into that more. Really significant. A very high-level fight, not the most exciting, but a good fight with substance and stakes. and the main event, it was the best that it could be given the circumstances, and we got to see the number one pound for a pound fighter in the world demolished one of the 10 best dudes in his weight class.

This is, you know, with the hindsight, with the changes, this is not A plus plus stuff, but we're still looking at a very solid A minus. Like we are in the top tier of scores here, especially if you're just grading on what you paid for, as opposed to the prelims and stuff. we're in the a minus B plus range, I would say. I know we like all in all the pound for pound conversation is silly and it's a little silly. It's a little silly and it's kind of your own opinion and conjecture and all that.

But at this point, even if you are the biggest John Jones fan on planet earth and you want to make the case for him, there is no case right now. Islam Machachev stands at the top of the mountain as the best fighter in the world. And there were a lot of people saying, well, it's a day's notice. will he slip on the banana peel against a wily veteran like canata moikano the answer is no didn't remotely i mean it's just he's so good he doesn't let anything rattle him and there are not there may not be another champion on the roster who would have done what is la machochev did tonight we have seen many champ we have seen champions turn down this and this is not to be a let's bash john

jones like i'm not trying to do that but like john jones in my mind correctly chose not to fight chel son on like a week's notice. Many champions, because there's so much at stake, might, it's such a risk. Like, and for Islam,

this is now the second time he's had a fight week change that it apparently isn't a risk to him because both instances, he obliterated the opponent who stepped in. Bobby Green got run over by a train and Anato Morcano did not make it out of the first round either.

So it was a master class, a performance of, of guns. But to take it. Credit to Moikano as well for being ready stepping in. But like this is this is sort of the ideal what you're looking for. This is he is the platonic ideal of a champion. He can do everything at a very high level. He can attack you where you're weak. He can make adjustments on the fly both in a fight stance and like, okay, now I just have to turn around and I got to fight a totally different dude 24 hours notice with so much on the line. I am unflappable, but a not. annihilate this dude. And then at the end, we were wondering, where's he going? A lot of talk is this going to be his last lightweight contest? He's not in a position to call for a, you know, he wants, he clearly wants to fight for the

Walterweight belt, but he's not there yet. So he says, hey, I like this belt. It's my belt. If you like this belt, come get it. Like, that's, he is doing everything that we say we want from a champion. And he's, and he's doing it while being the best fighter in the world writ large. this was just another chapter in the book of what is becoming a truly incredible career. The one ding I will give to this card, and it's not even like the card's fault,

is that we're not, this thing, we're not going to be talking about the fallout of this for weeks. You know what I mean? Like this thing will, we'll simmer for a couple of days, and then we're just going to just move on. But it's a good thing for Saudi, because this card is really fun. and I think the momentum is in a really good spot that is going to leave us wanting more but in terms of like

this ain't a card that we're going to be like there are significant storylines that are widespread throughout this. Now will there be questions certainly like what happens with Islam that'll be something to watch but we know he's not going to make that decision for several months.

What's going to happen with Marab? He's in a terrific spot right now. We'll get there. What's going to happen with Yuri? We just want to see him fight whoever. Jailton maybe like there's questions we have, but just in terms of like big storylines that the whole world is going to be talking about after this card.

Not a lot, but that doesn't mean this was a, like this wasn't a successful night for them. Big Gate. I'm sure this did pretty decent on pay-per-view regardless because there's a Makachev's there and some of the other great matchups. Like, this is just a solid start to the pay-per-view calendar year. 312, as we saw two great title fights. The rest of the main card sucks, dude. Sox, dude.

That's a real tough main card right there. But really good night to kind of start things. We got sort of the best of what the UFC can offer. Good fun production across the board. Fun venue. And to it don't seem dope. Yeah. I would love to go there and watch some fights.

If you had to guess right now, let's just say it's even money. Is this a Makachiev's next fight defending the lightweight title? I know he's in the post-fight promo with Joe Rogan. He said, man, here's the belt. It's my belt. Whoever wants it, come try to take it. But he's talked about moving up to 170.

If you had to guess, was that his last fight at 55? Or do you think, do you feel kind of the same way you felt during the preview show where, hey, man, this is a short notice fight. This is Moycano. Like, I did the company a favor, but I want to, I want arm. I need the arm and Siru Kyi and win. And then I can move up. I'll say the same thing.

I've said the whole time. I don't think I've changed my thoughts here. It's 60-40, and that 60-40 is it whether Shafkat wins. Islam has said that he, like, maybe wouldn't be the most excited about fighting Shafkat. There is a little bit of history

way back early in Shavkot's career. He trained under Abdulmanab. Abdulman-up maybe cornered him for a couple of fights, but I think that that's not enough to dissuade him. He won't fight B'Aul-Mahmahad. I think it's 60-40, Shavqat beats Balaal. And if Shafqqqqq beats Balaal, I think that that is his next

fight. I think I wouldn't mind them going back to Armin. I just don't think that's going to happen because of the circumstances. Maybe if Islam was specifically asking for it, then the UFC would be inclined. But in situations like this, we saw Charles pull out of a fight with Islam and that that has never happened since they, if you pull out under these circumstances, as short notice, the UFC tends to make you, you know, sing for your supper again. So I think that we'll be waiting. We're going to wait a long time. I don't think we're going to get Islam until late summer at the earliest probably fall, frankly. And by that time, I would say we'll know about welterweight. And if there's an opportunity, I think it will be Shavkat, if Shabkat has the bill.

If not, I don't know who it will be, but he'll come back to defend his title. And I hope so. I, we were talking about this at the very end of the watch party. I really want to see him stick around at the weight class. I think if anybody has earned a right to pursue a second belt, Islam has done it, and so I won't, y'all know me. I hate, I hate what Ali Tabor is doing right now. I won't buck if Islam wants to exercise a right that I think he has earned at this point in time, but I would love to see him make this unassailable run at lightweight.

If he can put two more Tata defenses, he's the goat, and there's not a conversation about it at that point. So I'd like to see him stick around I think it's 60, 40 Whether that is I won't see his last Because maybe he loses Shafcott returns To his weight cost

But his last for a while Trying to figure out who won bonuses I'm gonna tell you right now You're probably good Jamal Hill This is your fight of the night I'll bet a whole lot of things on that Apparently I assume Dana Probably went to the presser and announced them

But waiting to hear word I will let you know the second I get word. I would also bet Islam gets a bonus. Shout out to Hanata Moikano, too. If you guys missed the end of the watch party, I mean, that's how you lose. Like, he could have gone on,

but he could have gone out and said, you know, man, like, I dared to be great. I took the shot. I knew you were going to do it. He could have done it. But he said, you know what? Joe, even Joe, and Joe gave me out. He goes, she took this on a day's notice.

He goes, it wasn't a day's notice. a lifetime. There was plenty of notice. One day's notice, and it was better than I was. He said those words. He was better than me. I hope I get back here.

He said, I don't know if I'll ever get another shot at this, but I will do everything that I can to get back. That's how you take it out, man. Omar learned. That's how you lose. Yeah. And Ato made a pretty significant payday.

And then he's going to get more of those. He's going to be in for big fights. He's going to be. They're going to give him a friendly matchup, a matchup he's interested in next. Yeah, of course. I'm going to guess Yeri Jamal, Islam gets a performance,

and they probably actually won't give one to Jailton, though it wouldn't be awful to give it to Jailton. Yep, I got him. They could double up Yerey, but I don't think they'll give it to Riner to Ritter. Seems like that would be insane to give it to Riner to Ritter. I'll say Ronor de Ritter Islam and then the fight of the night's

Yirai Jamal Jed Mishu you went 0 for 3 There's no They didn't put Yeri Jamal as fight of the night No they didn't There's no way Fight of the Night

Marad Walsh really That's insane Performance of the night Jailton Almeida Yuri Phrashko that is insane I feel bad for Jamah Hill I feel bad for Jabah Hill

that is that's the worst one of those I can ever remember I have to look at that that is there's no way I'm not calling you a liar but there's just no way that is from my best friend

Alexander Kay Lee there's I don't know that's it no yes no yes I would never I would not lie to you

my best he's tweeting it out how do you feel about this that is fucking insane I'm sorry to demonetize us with with the language but

dude Jamoil year he is the best fight of the year all like maybe it won't be in the top five that fight was bananas I am not here to tell you Marab Umar was a bad fight. It was a good fight. It was a technical fight. The energy in this room very clearly died when that fight was going on because it was not an awesome fight.

It was a Marab fight. This was a great performance. It was a great performance. That is them saying, we want to do this. And so we're going to do it because we can give your performance. That is nuts to me. Yep. So there you have it.

nuts to me. Jamal Hill, you got screwed out of 50K. Chad, chat, tell me if I'm wrong. Put it in there if I'm wrong, but I,

that seems, I was certain of that because it's so obvious what the best fight of this weekend was. So we'll have to, it'll be interesting to watch the Dana Presser, because I'm sure he was asked about that.

But we'll, we'll find out exactly. Dude, one of those fights had multiple knockdowns, and one of them was not. Like, again, it's not a bad fight. It was not. They're not in the same ballpark.

They just didn't, for some reason, they didn't want to give Yuri two bonuses. I mean, I mean, I mean, I'm, I thought you just don't, I just give an RDR one or whatever. I think you deserve it. Yuri, yeah. What is the, you're the best finish the car. Is Chad telling me that the, that I'm wrong, I am not wrong. I'm no, I'm not wrong. That is freaking nuts.

Oh, yeah. Jamal Hill took brain damage for nothing. nothing now. Yeah. Like, I pity the fool who has to go into Jamal Hill's locker room while he is bleeding from getting repeatedly dropped and just gutting through like hard, hard labor in there. And then you're like, hey man, no Christmas bonus for you. It's going to these two dudes who ran a marathon.

Hard shit, great accomplishment. Not the same thing happening in those two fights. Yeah. What a fight between those two guys. What a performance from Jamal Hill. Like, what a take. And we talked to this in the watch party. Jamal Hill, even in defeat, I think his stock rose tremendously with this performance because he fought his ass off.

I thought he won the second round. He took a lot of punishment in round. Oh, wait a minute. Breaking news. Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, that you're not, you are, now you're going to do what I just did and you're not going to believe me. Are you ready for this? Oh, my God. Per Dana White at the post-fight press conference.

Islam Markachev is now the number one pound for pound fighter in the world. Wow. That's right, ladies and gentlemen. It took a full year, but we got it. Dana agrees. Islam is the best pound for pound fighter in the world. Okay. When you hear him say that, what does that mean to you?

Because I'll tell you my first reaction. John Jones is retired? Yep. He's not fighting. You know what? That's not even my reaction. What pray tell? My reaction is he's not going to fight.

fight Tom Asimol. That would be funny as hell. Objectively, it would be really funny if John just doesn't fight Tom but fights Alex after the Ankyloiv or just waits, just like, I'm just going to sit and wait. That to me, like, it could be, could it be because of retirement, maybe. But Dana went into a live microphone in Tampa, Florida, a month ago, it guaranteed 100% that we were getting John Jones versus Tom Asimel in 2025. but something tells me by that statement what he just said that that is not the case i obviously

very cynical man i would agree i didn't so i obviously we're doing this i did not hear the full quote i just see dana admits is um uh i mean there's great performance i don't feel like we we saw dana dig in on this very hill all last year with all sorts of evidence but him tap in wikano is is the straw that breaks the camel's back i would tend to agree but a night of unbelievable unexpected outcomes as dana white sees the light finally and the fact that is the mock and chef is probably the only champion on the roster that would have stayed on the card and fought another guy on a day's notice because he knows how good he is i mean you get just the best the best fighter in the world so um just just wild stuff so great fight from yury and jamaal

I'm sure we'll have some questions and talk about that. But Maradualis, really still the Bannonweight champion, Jednishu. He goes out there and gets the job done. He beats Umar and Amaga Madoff. And yes, Umar's management team has sent the photo of Umar's broken hand to everybody so they get posted on social media. Umar says on the microphone to Joe Rogan, I thought I won the first three rounds. I should have won the fight, but I broke my hand in the first round, which I didn't like at all.

I think it was bad. Even if you did break your hand, like that's fine. That is something you share on Sunday when you share it two months from now. Yeah, you can share it on Sunday. You share it with like you send that photo to one person to be like, just got this photo from Umar's manager. He broke his hand in the first round. But the fact that Umar kind of approached the loss the way he did kind of rub me the wrong way.

Like, I know he's young and he's getting used to all of this and getting used to the title fight spotlight. But just look at the post fight lost speech from Juanato Moikano and compare it to what we saw from Umerna Maga made off night and day, my friend. It's terrible. He's from a camp who knows how to handle this better. What you do is you just tell Dana. You send Dana the phone because there's a photo. His hand obviously does look real swollen and broken. I'm not a medical doctor.

You just tell Dana. So then Dana can go back. can say, man, you know, what you guys don't know, he can say it at the postpresser. Well, you guys don't know is in where Berg's hand the first really competitive fun fight. He'll be back. And you can get that information out there without saying it in a, I lost, but shouldn't. And then also to pair that with the, I don't think I lost, even though I, you can, I think that that is explicable. Fighters really never have a great understanding of how fight is going when they're doing it,

win or lose. So it makes sense to me, even that I think I won. and he even acknowledged, I need to go watch it. All of that was handled exactly incorrectly. Y'all know my feelings on how to do this. Just take your L. You talked a lot of shit. You got to eat it.

Like you got to keep the same energy. You get hoisted on your own batard. You got to do it. And he took not the greatest exit out in that. I hated it. Yeah. Now you call him an old man. You said all the stuff about him.

you thought it to be a cakewalk like this whole thing it's just the hand and marab and shot it to marab man he just went in there he took shit from everybody for me from you from the fans from like literally everybody from the way he handled himself this entire time the one person who really didn't give him shit was casey casey thought everything he did was brilliant and it would have been objectively funny if marab called out mario batista for a title fight or called out like montel jackson just somebody lower just to have fun with this and just take this gimmick to a whole different level. I would have been so funny. But Marab, dude, this was everything.

Like we talked about this a lot in the buildup to this fight, but Rob winning this fight, like the difference between win and loss here is like literally everything from Rob. Because if he lost, never ever sniffing a title shot again, unless he had to fall into it on like a day's notice. to just have to be in town for something. But now that he beat Umar, now that he exercised the demons,

he beat the boogeyman of this division, the guy people, I believe yourself, had ranked as the number one band of lane on the planet. A.K. Lee has been singing it for a year. That's the best bandamweight in the world, especially if the Corey Sanhagen win. Rob just beat this guy.

He just got him out of the way. And now all these big fights, with guys he's already beaten, with way bigger names right now, I guess from a legacy perspective, and favorable matchups are right there for Marab. This is prime money-making season, and now he's so far ahead of the game because of this victory.

I was talking about it in the preview show and the wash party. This was, I think there is an argument. I'd have to really dive in and see that this was the most boom-bust win in UFC history because it's smooth sailing out, Mike. Like, he is, we're staring down the barrel of a Sean O'Malley rematch. It's undeserved. We don't need to dive into that. It's going to happen. It's going to happen. We saw that fight. There are no questions about how that fight will go in perpetuity, frankly. He's going to win that big money fight. Already, like, he has a great resume, but he has a couple of title defenses and his next opponents appear to be rematches with guys he dominated. Okay. There's a very real opportunity that by the end of this year, if not next year, you know, or are they,

next year. He is now, has a compelling case, as the bantam weight goat. He got a lot more money in his pocket. He's got multiple title defenses. And now he's starting to do that. I've cleaned out the weight class.

I want to get my shot at featherweight, even though I know he and Elliott Teporia, you know, Georgian friendship going, maybe a lot of time between now and then. So this was a monster win, considering how much to gain versus how much to lose the delta

between those two. just enormous. So super, super big win from Rob. And honestly, maybe the most important part, boy gets to talk of shit now. He had to eat it. And he, like, this is the thing. It is the same thing I said when Aljo won the rematch over Pure Jan.

Do your dance. Talk your shit. You earned it. Myself, included, I don't think he's going to win this fight. I don't think he can win, but it's really unlikely to he wins. It's hard for me to imagine it. I was far from the only person saying that this is one of those times. Y'all know me.

I will, I hate a mother effer who's like, nobody believed in me. You were minus 300 favorite. My guy shut the hell up. Nobody believes in you. You weren't the biggest underdog of all time, but you got enough credit in the nobody believed in me game to play that card

and do your dance right now. Enjoy this victory lap. You earned it. Yeah, unbelievable. This guy's going to be the champion for the next three years, probably at this point, unless somebody comes along. I just don't,

I don't really see it right now. It just seems like he is finding ways to get better. He was winning a lot of the striking exchanges against Umar. You could say it's because the broken hand, who gives a shit? He went in there. Winning's winning. Winning is winning.

He won, that's why I gave him the first round. I thought he won a lot of the striking exchanges early. And I think it kind of threw Amar off and, you know, hand injury or whatnot. And Umar's going to be back. Like, this loss stings.

It's going to hurt. But he, has everything he needs to get back. Age, he's not even at his physical athletic prime just yet. He's getting there, but he's not quite there. He's got the last name. He's got the manager that is in great position with the UFC. He is always at worst two wins away from getting a title shot.

And it would not shock me if they tried to throw him back in there with Marab if he wins two more fights. It would not shock me. And I would love to watch this two guys fight again. The other part, like I scored it for one Marab. you did one judge did it also was apparently the best fight of the night so a couple of wins it was not guys it is just insane but a couple of wins um particularly if they're meaningful top wins because the knock on umar marab said it a bunch the umar detractor said he hasn't proven anything you know he's one win over cori sandhagan that's true and now he lost his fight people will come out of the

woodwork say umar was never that good i don't know man like marab is very, very good. And Umar took two rounds off him on the majority of judges scorecards, many fans scorecards as well. So two wins and they get to rematch the fight of the night from UFC 311. And maybe things are different in two years. Mara's a little older. Maybe Umar learns a lesson from this.

But, I mean, that is a future Marab problem because right now, easy street from a man. Yeah. I'm very excited to see what's next for all these guys. and umar i'll be back like i said it's gonna be fine but um maybe figurado i like that idea um just get him back in there try to get him back in there maybe for abu davi do you know he's again

just be smart with how you book him he'll be back and talk that shit marab uh you'rey perashka jamaal hill fucking rocked terrific fight uh jamal hill showed that he is one of the five best light heavy weights in the world, even in defeat. And Yuri Perashka, how about it, man? Didn't need the hands up, didn't need any of that. He just, he's slipping punches. Mahm and Ali in that bitch. She's floating around in terrific shape.

The fight was awesome. If I was absolutely awesome. It was the most fun of the night, which should be the deciding factor in fight of the night. What fight did we have the most fun in? Did everyone watching have the most fun in? It was very clearly that. I'm glad you, Prasca, at least. gets a bonus. I am very sad for

Jamal Hill. That fight was better than I even thought it could be, is my big takeaway from that fight. I thought you were going to win, picked him, bet him. He's my boy. I love him. He certainly showed some wrinkles, right? Like, we started to see that, honestly, against rackets, we saw some head movement.

The most we've ever seen of that by far, to your, as you stated, and well, my big question about this fight, I wanted to learn about Jamal Hill. I have said for over a year now, like, Jamal Hill had an unbelievable performance against Glover Tashira. I would never take that away from him.

Glover retired immediately after. I don't know what to make of that. Was that Jamal Hill had a breakout performance? Because it was also so unlike his other ones. Other than Jamal just killed people and they fell over and died. That was so special that, okay, is he this guy or is he having a Cody Garbrandt dominant cruise moment? And then his next, he gets injured.

He comes and gets killed by Alex Pereira. I had no real concept where Jamal actually fit in at lightweight. I learned a lot. Yes, he lost. Gritty-ass performance. Great performance in a lot of ways. Adjusted on the fly, made Yeri work even when he was losing. Ultimately, the fight was won because I have said for a long time,

Alex Brewer was just a uniquely awful fight for Yeri. And Yeri's going to beat everybody else. That's what he did. But that fight was sick. credit to both dudes. I'm so sorry you don't get 50K Jamal Hill, but my guy is back and I don't know where he goes.

I just want to be there to watch. Yiri Pajka, he's a bonus machine. A bonus is awarded every time that dude fights. Maybe he makes the movie no way and we get D versus DDP.

I want DDP to just fight him at a catch weight. I don't, I'll give you all my money for that fight. It's the only thing. He looked pretty trip, man. I think he can do it.

I don't want him to do it. don't need to see it you're the number two light heavy weight you don't need to cut to middle weight you just need to wait out Alex till he moves up yeah i mean but maybe he doesn't move up maybe he just wants to keep or wait out Alex and see if uncle I beats him if uncle I beats him you're you're right in there kid I mean if john Jones isn't up there like what's the point i mean you could still try to make history and stuff but like i mean go up the point the point is trying to make history that's cool it would be better against john but if alex beats Magamond. He should go fight Tom, try and do it because it would be a unique insane,

an awesome thing. But if Magamad wins, maybe they run it right back with Alex. I could see that. I could also see, depending on the fashion that goes, as that fight was announced today, they say, hey, Yeri, why don't you get in here against old, old Magerman Akalaya, and let's see where it goes. Apparently, Dana White, during the post-fight press conference, confirmed that Armand Saruken will not be getting a title shot. I saw that from somebody being upset on Twitter. What? What do you mean?

What did you? Habib did not get a title shot. Is it your first day here? Habib did not get a title shot after the same thing happened. He had to fight somebody else. Basically, nobody does. Like, again, it wouldn't bother me if they gave it to him. Is it your first day in the UFC?

Yeah. Habib had to fight Edson Barbosa, which is not like fighting Edson Barboza in 2025. This is 2017. where Edson Barbosa was one of the five best lightweights in the world. If he pulled out six weeks ago because of injury, maybe, you know, things just probably change. Pulling out on fight week because of injury,

you're just, you're never going to get that bad. Like they're never, you, they won't trust you to do it again because you burn them once. And that may be a little bit silly, but it, that's,

the precedent is overwhelmingly set. And no sport, no sports entity holds a grudge more than Daneway and the UFC. And not an officer. him. It's made him successful, but... Charles O'Levair ain't heading on it. I'm saying, Charles Olaver pulled out a fight with Islam. He has yet to rematch Islam.

He had to fight Armin Sarugan. Yeah. He had to fight Armin Zerugian. While Dustin Poye got a title fight because he beat him off underneath, which is sick and super cool. But like, those are not the same universes we're living in. Interesting stat too that a lot of people have reminded me up. Four fighters entered UFC 311 with undefeated records. All four of them leave without undefeated.

Wow. California, just bad place for the O's to go. Umar and Maga Madoff, Peyton Talbitts, Rinyan Nakamura, Clayton Carpenter. Wow. All O's had to go. We should have known that. They went. When it was three down heading into the co-man, we should have known that.

That is. Ooh. Yeah, man. And then we talked about Jadalmeda, Renier de Ritter, beats Kevin Holland, Pretty easy work. The middleweighty, middleweight champion. Easy work. Forever and ever and ever.

It'll be interesting what they do to him next. It should be Michelle Pereira because that fight would be terrifically fun. It would be really fun. But I want to go to the peeps here. I'm going to love the mic up here. I'll pull up the old laptop and pull up some questions.

Sledo. UFC tried their best to stack the deck against him Rob, and it blew up in their face. I love it. They better let him do what he wants. Well, I mean, he's got to get what he wants now. Oh, yeah, he's getting his thing. I don't get Sean O'Malley.

Yeah, what he wants is the fight that they want in general. They just wanted this fight first. And this was the benefit to the fight. If you are if you are Marab, it was super risky. Risk paid off in a big way. Here he goes. Oh, we're going to do that one. Sorry.

RS 40, how many fights will Grant Dawson have to win to get a top 10 lightweight? He's 12-1-1 in the UFC. Yes, Grant Dawson competed on this card, beat. uh carlos diego fejara it's a good old cdf wasn't the most thrilling fight it was a cdf's a hard dude to fight yeah grant just kind of did what grant does like if he takes you down you're you're done like you're just on your back you have lost the round uh and he did that all three rounds against cdf gets a big win and here's the thing about grant austin the guy understands he gets it uh he is he Not every call it has been good.

Some of them are silly. The Tony Ferguson callout, I even told him to his face. It was one of the worst call at the ball. It was bad. It wasn't very good. He did call up in Neil Derr Ushh after this and did it in a super respectful way. And I thought this is a terrific call. Do I think he gets his fight?

No. But I think it's a terrific, sensical callout. So Grant Dosson did get a big fight. Got a main event at the apex against Bobby Green. And Bobby Green obliterated him in what, a minute? Less than a minute. It was very, very fast. Yeah, very, very fast.

So they've given Grant the chance. So what else is he need to do to get another chance? Because it's not easy to move up this divisional ladder, but Grant Dawson has always had the talent to be a guy who could rise and make some big moves in this division. Oh, he's getting the chance now. I think that this was it. Like, CDF is gatekeeper to the stars, basically.

Also, pretty tough stylistic matchup in some ways for Grant Dawson. He works through it. Um, he has gotten, he is live on the mic. He's had three good performances now. Yes, he had a setback. Those happen at lightweight. Uh, I don't know who. It may not be top 10, but he's going to get a ranked opponent next.

I am almost certain of that, whether it's an apex main event. He's just going to get another Bobby Green, Esch effort. Um, whoever that is, I'd have to pull the top 15 and see. But, uh, my hope is that it's not like Joel Alvarez or whatever, just because, like, let new blood get an opportunity against old blood, but he's going to get a ranked opponent next. I think, I feel

really, really confident. He's just on a good run right now. Breaking news, your favorite fighters broke into silence. Michael Chandler on Twitter, 151 a.m. Quote, I flew to Sue Falls, South Dakota 96 hours for a fight to get 12 injections in my spine, then fly to the fight location, still showed up,

still made weight, still fought. Real fighters do. Is Michael Chandler calling his shot to fight arm in Surruki? because I don't think this is the worst idea I've ever heard from Michael Chandler. Is it though? That's what he's doing. He's going to lose.

He's going to lose. He's definitely going to lose. But if he doesn't. Just go back to calling out Connor. Just do that. But he's not going to fight Connor. Connor's going to fight this year. I'm really confident Connor's going to fight this year.

Also just like a super shitty way to do it. Like, because the truth is you just have no fucking idea what happened. I have thoughts and my thoughts are not kind, frankly, towards Armand Sarukian. like I this is this is not based on knowledge my gut says that he had a bad weight cut and decided discretion is the better part of valor I'm not hurt during the I'm not gonna make weight I'm I'm out but like I I don't we don't know that is entirely me making shit up like you don't know what happened to that injury and also just because you do something doesn't mean it's best for

everybody because I don't know if you know this both of you fought Charles oliver and only one of you got a fucking dump truck by him. So just don't be a turd. Like, you're just such a turd, dude. I guess that's his way of calling for the fight. Actually, it's a smart call, though. I do. He's going to get, he's going to get absolute drop. I think you should have hopes of winning

fights for them to be smart. But also, you know, I don't know shit. I thought Marab was going to lose and I was very, very wrong. So maybe he can win. And it's certainly a high upside call out. Of course. I think if I am Armin, that that is the best

thing that can happen i have to fight once i beat michael chanela i just get back to title fight if i'm iran surrcine i'm literally on the phone my man like sure let's set up michael chan april and miami let's do it let's do it five rounds that can be the co-main event or whatever like i don't it would be the best if i'm armin surrogian that is the fight i'm taking and i'm jumping all over it uh surukian if syrucan is is less than a minus 300 favorite uh i literally i might there's not a world in which he's less than a minus five. It'll be the Schochenko bet if that happens. It's just like, I mean, I guess it's smart in the terms.

He can get the fight, but. You can get it. And if he wins, he will get a title show. I hate him, dude. Yeah, I know. RS40 also says, I feel like Max is a better chance of beating Islam than Ilya does. Matt just make fights. What do you think, by the way, I pick Islam on both?

I would pick Islam on both. I don't think it's remotely true that Max has a better chance. I have an enormous amount of respect for Max Holloway. I don't think Max would be a walk in the park in the same way, frankly, Moikano ended up being tonight. Though we've qualified that enough. You understand the qualifications at this point. To me, that just tells me that you are still underestiming

how good Ilya Dupore is. My disinterest in seeing Duporia versus Mockacheb is not that the fight is not compelling. It is good matchup. It is that I would like to see, I'm old enough to remember a year and a half ago when people were like, Iliate Tepuri hadn't done shit to deserve a title fight.

He's done nothing in the division. He beats two dudes and suddenly the division is empty. No, there are three men he needs to fight in this weight class. At least two men he needs to fight in this weight class. And still other dudes coming up. You have a job. Do your goddamn job? If you do clean your division out,

then we can talk about this fist fight. But that's all a separate issue. If they fought, I would still obviously pick Islam. He's a much larger man. We saw Jai Herbert give Ilya some issues. That's my biggest thing about that. But strictly by being a lightweight. And Jai Herbert is bad.

I don't know if you know this. Is Lamarajad is not bad. He's in fact the best. So like I think Max can be interesting and, you know, give some looks. But Ilya is a very good grappler. Ilya is a superior boxer. Ilya packs of power that Max does not. That probably, I mean,

we know translates up to light weight to some extent. Um, a compelling matchup. And I frankly think Ilya is one or two of the most likely to be able to beat Islam at this point. Um, him and Armin as, as the guys who could do it. But I,

I comfortably pick Islam over anyone that weighs 155 pounds or less. Maybe even 170 pounds. Cody says, I think the eyepokes may have played a part in that decision. what decision? The bonus? No. I mean, I guess that's what he's talking about.

A year he's the one that got poked. Well, he also poked Jamal, but Jamal took 40 seconds and they restarted. That's true. Also, I- But Jamal was the old double poke. Yeah, I don't think that's like, you can make the argument that the better fight was the co-main event because high-level martial arts or whatever.

That's just never been the standard. by which fight of the night has really been given out of like, this was the two most elite dudes. Like you were just lying to me if you're telling me you had as much fun watching the feature fight as you did the co-main. The co-main event was a good high-level fight. One of those fights had damage and the other did not. I know and the one that did is the dude who got dead.

It is so obvious which of those was the better fight guys. uh at least you had umar lossby at i'm more georgian than you that was bad and and now it looks even worse i thought that that was um weird and kind of bad i was interested to see like how this would play off if they were just trying to keep digging but uh it did wasn't good it wasn't good at the time and it's worse in hindsight uh SWF 24 give adriano martines the next aisle shot let's run it back let's negate the uh let's just do let's do a pay-per-view event where champions can avenge

losses or have significant rematch. I know exactly where you're going, right? John Jones versus Parker Porter, the main event. It's all set up to do that. And then we do Islam versus Adriana Martins. Like, come on. Let's get. Let's do it. I think we should just do

what the UFC's done with John Jones's loss and just be like it didn't happen. They should just start treating Islam as if he has never lost. It's severely funny to me. Let's see what we got here Let's take a few more questions We'll get out of here

Don't you ask questions about my boy RDR or Jailton Almeda I mean I get why you don't ask questions about Jailton He's been the same fighter Since we've known him Dana said a new ranking system Will be revealed in the next few weeks

What are their thoughts? I'm not going to answer this question Stay tuned that's all I can say what I can say is I have had discussions with the UFC about their rankings what I like about them

what I don't like about them I can't get into specifics but I don't know I don't know exactly what's going to happen there's two ways they're going to do this one is they are really truly going to go through this AI thing it looks like that's option one

option two is they do the rankings the way that they've been doing them, but they actually get, you know, knowledgeable people who work in the sports to actually take part in the rankings. And if they actually do this, they want it to be like, like tip top people who understand what's going on. So like when people look at the names and they look at the representation on who is

a part of this rankings crew, they're like, okay, this makes sense. This is like the top of, game. These are the best sites. These are the best people, et cetera. So, again, I don't know, and I swear, I'm telling you the truth. I don't know what this is going to mean. I don't know what direction they have actually going to go.

But those are the two options. It's either going to be like HSA way, like an all-star lineup essentially of rankers or they are going to go with the AI thing. So we'll see what happens. I think it's very dumb because M.AFighting.com has the perfect rankings. There's never once been wrong. you should use those. Yeah.

It's always going to be the best rankings in sport. So they're the only good. They're the only right ones. There you go. Does RDR deserve a top five contender already? I mean, in my heart he does. I don't think he actually deserves it.

But beating, you know, two wins, two finishes in the UFC. Should have gotten a bonus. Just saying, uh, he,

he will absolutely get a ranked opponent. I, I, Michelle Paheda, as you mentioned, I would be super fun and would appeal to all the silly goosebones in my body. I think it is probably somebody different. Who did I say that it was Jackramansen? I think Jackramansen feels like Jackramanson is the, hey, are you a top ten-ish dude? Fight me and you'll find out.

If you beat me, you are. If you do not, you are not. Jackramancing can grapple Jackmanston can kickbox Jackraman can defensively wrestle We'll learn a lot It feels like the fight to make I think that that's the fight they will make

Because they aren't silly geese Like I am You know what I think would be like Maybe the perfect fight They won't do it Because it's too risky But RDII versus Beau Nicol It would be super interesting

Yeah they definitely They won't do it There's no chance It would be interesting for sure but they won't do that. They absolutely won't do it. I love that. The Molador would be so fun.

It would be so stupid. It would be so stupid. It would be great. Dawson versus Patty, they won't do that. They're not going to get Dawson that rub. No. Dawson's not going to get Benny.

I think it's a good, reasonable call out. They owe Benny a favor now, and I don't think Grant Dawson's a favor, frankly. So I don't know what Dawson will get. Grant Dawson is going to fight Joel Alvarez next. That's the one I,

really don't want him to do jalen turner turner maybe b s d actually that's that i think bsd is actually the one i would go with yeah the best chance you would have up in the top ten is getting matush gamroth but they're so they train together so they're oh they train together there you go i was going to say gamrod also makes sense but they've got that whole thing of every every good lightweight trains at at t yeah so they won't don't do that but yeah that's kind of where grant's going to go unfortunately um bsd is is is the one I think that they should do. Winnable fight. Tough for BSD,

back against the wall a little bit, two in a row. I don't need to see Jalen Turner for a fighter wrestler again. I'm just good with that. It would be good for Grant. It's a very winnable fight for Grant. Also,

loseable, very winnable. I think BSD is the one I'd go with. Super Chat. What do you think of Peyton Tablet's performance? It was bad. Dude. One of my early fantasy picks, I felt real good about things.

That's tough for you. Golly. man tough people are picking up losses in fantasy which is great because I had one so now everyone's joining the table of losses but I'm telling you right now if I'm Peyton Talbot I ain't fighting this is not going to happen

if Peyton's probably going to take a fight real quick and the UFC's probably going to give him somebody he can ice they're going to real with her but if Peyton is looking at this as like a long-term thing he needs to take like nine months off and just work on grappling work on wrestling take down defense

because say what you will by Hannity Barcelos, he wrote the blueprint on how to beat him. Just tackle him and you win. That's it. Tackle him and you win. Yeah. Any fighter coming against his tablet is, why would you strike with him? He's very, very good at that.

Shoot on him and it appears that I can make hay. I'm comfortable with him continuing to fight. Obviously, should prioritize developing his game out, but this is where I would like him to get a soft touch and for the UFC

to develop prospects by, okay, we gave, this was the fight that was going to launch you into really elevating the letter. You failed it. Now we're going to go back down to baseline level. You're going to nuke some dudes and hopefully you're working on your game in the off season.

Spencer, howdy boys. Love the MK crossovers with Luke on BTL and Jed on the pregame show. Jet on tequila is more dangerous than Yuri. Talk is on Islam all time at lightweight, but what about pound for pound? Is he top 15 all time?

There's a case. I'd have to go through it. My default answer is no, but there's an argument. 15 is such a number that it's hard. If he wins, if he gets to six and becomes the best lightweight of all time. He's undeniably top 15.

If he gets to six, he is top 10. I agree. I don't think I have a single doubt that he is top 10. And it's more as he is, does six put him in the pantheon? If he beats Armist, he's top 15, unquestionably. Even if it's like before the six. I won't say unquestionably is I would just have to write it out. My gut says yes.

Again, like I made this point before with other pound for pound discussions. The problem with just throwing out, like it's easy to reflexively throw out. that dude's one of the 10 best fighters of all time was like Max Holloway, right? This is this is when we're talking about it. It's one of the 10 best fighters of all time. I actually think Max probably is one of the 10 best fighters of all time. But when you think about what that means,

if you are separating male and female, which you really have to, if you're bringing in women, 100%. There's no, there's no room. I've made this point a bunch. There are six undeniable. There is a pantheon of six goats, and they live, they are mustads.

If you don't have them in your top 10 all time, and they aren't the top six, you are wrong as close as a subjective opinion is to being objectively wrong. John Jones, Anderson Silva, Demetrius Johnson, George St. Pierre, Jose Aldo, and Fadoo O'Maio O'Maio. Those six, what they accomplished over the period of time they did, undeniable. I personally think Habib, the uniqueness of his career,

makes him not in the pantheon of six, but sort of the doorkeeper to the Pantheon. He is seven. That's three pieces of wiggle room for a top 10. That's only eight pieces for a top 15. And if you're talking to top 10, Max Holloway, Alexander Volcanovinsky, Israel, Destiny, I've done amazing things.

Kamar Usman, Matt, Matt Hughes, done amazing things. Dan Henderson, like, you start going back to people who have done incredible things in their career. Frankie Edgar, BJ Penn. Like, there's so much of them. It's hard to say top 15 guaranteed, unless I really parsed it out. Islam is certainly in the conversation now for top 15, I would say.

Another title win, I would have kind of default him there. Another two, he's in the top 10 and there's no argument. And is he in the Pantheon? So like I said, I'd love to see him stick around lightweight and really solidify a run we have never and may never see again in the sports premier weight class. That's a good question, though, by the way. Yeah, Desiline Perez, who has won five in a row, deserve a title eliminator at women's Bannamweight. She said in her to scrum, she wants an interim women's band and weight championship by Mikhail Harrison. No.

That's a very stupid scrum. No. I am, I, of an interim title five is very stupid. I'll say this. Give her a shot. Give her a shot at, give her a title eliminator fight. I am, because she's going to be nine. I think Carol Hosa was nine in the UFC rankings.

Yes, that's a big jump up to, like, fight whoever's, like, fight Rocky Pendington, honestly. Obviously, a huge jump up. There is, I am tired of the same six people plus Kayla Harrison now. Macy Chison's coming. Macea Chison is coming, but like, let her, I don't care, Skyrocket. Anybody who's new and on a wind street, fire them up there and see if somebody sticks because there's, it is a desperation to get new blood, even if I don't think that new blood. even if I don't think that new blood is particularly good.

She's on a good win streak. She beat Carol Hosa. I give her a top five woman. And by default, that's a title of limiter, frankly. I'm going to... You know, this is going to be my on-to-the-ne-the-ne-ne-ne-ch-one-pick, but I'm going to pick, or wild-car pick for tomorrow, but I'm going to pick something else.

I'm going back to the same while I went to, like, three fights ago for Aline Perez. Misha Tate, give her that fight. give her the name that would move up the rankings for Misha Tatee yeah I mean Misha's Misha's last performance

her last year it was a while ago she beat the shit out of Giuliavula like Oh that was her last performance I was thinking it was wherever it was before that Oh no that was the last time she bought She before that she She cut to 125 and Lauren Murphy dump

Yeah that's what I was like What are you talking about? Oh she went back to 135 And she smoked Julia Avila like That was a really good win And that was like maybe the best. That was one of the best performances of her career in that fight. And everything I see on social media is like she is,

whether whatever injuries or whatever she was dealing with physically healed up, she wants to fight. So give her that. Like just give her that fight. If she wins that, then we can start talking some of this other stuff. But it's just such a weird division right now. Like who the fuck knows when Julianna Payne and Kayla Harrison are going to fight?

We don't know. Like both those sides like seem. Just with Kail in the way cut. It's now at least not until April. At the very earliest. That's the only, the pay-per-view now next up is April. So that's the earliest it could be. And to me, like, you and I talk about this all the time.

You don't get over by beating Carol Hosa. You get over by beating Carol Hosa in January, Misha Tate in March, and somebody else in May. That's how you get over. Activity is huge, especially if you're winning a boring UD over Carol Hosa. Yeah. I think Mike is right on what they will do. I would just say screw it and let her fight somebody in the top five

because she's on a win streak and that doesn't happen in this weight class. I'm trying to do anything, but I think you're absolutely right. Yeah. And I don't hate it. Meachita makes sense. When's the Macy Chess on Ketland Vieira fight? When's that happening? I think it's like February 15th or something.

I think it's a February. Stay ready, Eileen Perez. I'll say that. Like one of those ways fall out. If you're available, get in. That I would be okay with. I'll take a couple more we're going to get out here. Everett, how sweet is the contributor wing of the UFC Hall of Fame?

It gets the people going. Jed, thanks for teaching me gambling. I'm happy to teach you gambling. I had a successful night, so that's good. I had a terrific night tonight. Look, the contributor wing is not sexy, and it's never going to land in the same way because the people in it are just not nearly as well known as fighters,

or people with FaceTime, but they deserve their spots. Like pull up the contributor ring right now. I'm trying to think who is, like, I know mask is in there, which is like contributed, but also feels a little, but whatever, it's fine.

Blatnick's in there because Blatnick should be in there, right? Like, if you don't know, Jeff Blatnick was an early color commentator, more or less helped define mixed, martial arts as a sport as like a real sport helped with getting it accepted in places. Who is it's Blatnik, Bob Meyerwitz, Joe Silva, the UFC, the Zufo matchmaker. Art Davy, Mark Ratner.

Art Davy, who functionally invented the UFC to some extent. Mark Ratner, the biggest piece that got it legitimized as a sport commission-wise. And now Craig Pelagian, who was the EP, basically created tough. like all of those people save math lewis no disrespect to mass lewis who actually did like early days of tap out was a relevant part to the growth of uc the other people all did like incredibly tangible things to grow the ufc specifically they deserve to be commemorated even if it's not the same thing as chuckledell or whatever like there's not a human being who should be able to dispute craigieg deserves his spot there so completely agree it just seemed like it's weird Yeah, just there's no way around the pomp and circumstance the way Annick set it up like You throw Anik in that with a blurry background and like the the high deaf cam and like you're expecting Oh shit Frank Shamrock's finally getting in like some big huge moment. It's like I mean he deserves to get in yeah just it's weird that could have been in it's unknowably weird

You you want to do you want to give it the pomp and circumstance because it is still a hall of fame spot not every whole of fit not a whole not a hall of of fame spots are created equal, but you want to treat them as if they are because to the person receiving it, it's still a monumental thing. Uneniable weird, the show goes on. We need Armin versus King Green. No, we don't. I can't think of a fight. I need less.

That will be an absolute mollywobbin. That will be quick, at least. Armand Sarugan is a minus 1,100 favorite. It would be a quick fight. We just saw what Patty Pimblit did to Bobby Green. Armand Syracian is going to do 10 times worse. I mean, if I'm Armand, the Chandler fight, as you mentioned, honestly makes a ton of sense. He should be, yeah, dude, get, get managers or get any move on the phone and make that happen.

You kill Michael Chandler, you go on the mic and say, look, bad things happen. I'm sorry I screwed up. I want my shot at the belt. You said this, if somebody wants your belt come and get it. it. I would like to do that this time. I will wear ice packs on my back. I don't know. Yeah. I think Armand Serukian

has become maybe one of the top five stories to watch in 2025. It gets really interesting now. So weird. It was so weird. Yeah. So tough scenes but all in all, Islam Makachev still stepped up, still did the

damn thing. Behananato. Behaned Antimoicano. Behan the number one pound fighter in the world tonight. Dana White admitted he's the number one pound fighter in the world, which is, which is huge. 15 in a row. 15 wins in a row. So many wins in a row. Yeah.

So many wins in a row. So many big things in a row. Like this. It's the third most ever. Yeah. It's crazy. It's the third most ever. It's insane.

The run he is on. And there are more accomplishments to come for this man and dying to see it. Shout out to Maraud Dwellis, really for getting it done. Shout out to. to Yuri Perashka. What a fucking gangster. And shout out to Jamal Hill, too, man. Like, great performance.

Deserved a bonus. Had a good fight week. Like, had a good fight week. Great performance. Earned a lot of respect in that defeat. I hope he doesn't say something real dumb and make me regret these, these kind words. But terrific performance. My current leader for Friday of the year.

Yeah. We talked almost none about him because he's Jelton Al-Lameda. And it is what we thought. thought it was, though he boxed a little bit. He was nice with these for a moment. Most importantly, he represented the climb terrifically. Of the three people I potentially had his climb bets, I went with Jailton.

It was the one I felt the best about. It was great call because the other two failed. So, really, yeah. Calbot. Go ahead. Go back.

Riny and Acomoro. Actually, you know what? Go back to the... Honestly, Rania and Acoma and Payton Talbot. Just get together, train with each other, learn each other's ways. And if somebody could maybe slap her in the upside the goddamn head, tell him the wrestle. You're a world champion wrestler. And you were just like, nah, I'm good.

I don't know what the hell you're doing. I mean, that'd be smart. That'd be smart. Again, I think Payton should take, like, nine months off or work on an exclusive grappling. But for fantasy purposes, I need him back, like, tomorrow. Yes. We need to get a winner or two out of it. better for you. But we love you guys very much. Thank you all. Guys, we're getting out of here.

Post-fight press conference still going on. So you can shift on out of there. I believe Marab is up there right now. So you'll still hear from Islam Makachev, which is great. And we're already done before that ends. And then AK and I back tomorrow, 11 a.m. Eastern for on to the next one. So thank you all very much. We appreciate you. Jed is heading back to Savannah to get a nap in, finish up his work schedule, get a little sleep, maybe some food after not eating anything yesterday. So thank you all very much. We appreciate you. Love you. Have a great rest of your night. The Vox Media Podcast Network. Hi, I'm Sophia Loprakero, host of the Before the Chorus podcast. We dive into the life experiences

behind the music we love. Artists of all genres are welcome. And I've been joined by some pretty amazing folks like glass animals. I guess that was the idea was to try something personal and see what happened. And Japanese breakfast. I thought that the most surprising thing I could offer was an album about joy. You can listen wherever you get your podcasts. Oh, and remember, so much happens before the chorus.

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