MMA Fighting - UFC 312 Post-Fight Show | Reaction To Dricus du Plessis, Zhang Weili's Dominant Title Defenses

Episode Date: February 9, 2025

Dricus du Plessis made sure there was absolutely no controversy this time around as he dominated Sean Strickland in their rematch for the middleweight championship in the main event of Saturday's UFC 312 event in Sydney, Australia. Now, all eyes are on the eventual championship fight between du Plessis and the undefeated Khamzat Chimaev. Following the UFC's pay-per-view event, MMA Fighting's Mike Heck and Jed Meshew react to the card, du Plessis' lopsided win over the very game Strickland, discuss how big a du Plessis vs. Chimaev fight can be, and where Strickland goes from his second loss to du Plessis. Additionally, they discuss Zhang Weili's one-sided decision victory over Tatiana Suarez, if Zhang had her final strawweight fight in lieu of a move up to flyweight to challenge Valentina Shevchenko for the 125-pound belt, Manon Fiorot potentially being leapfrogged, other notable moments from the card, and much more. Follow Mike Heck: @m_heckjr Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. All right, no victory horns. But we got the victory drums. And they sound for Drickus Duplice and Jean-Wei Lee and still in both title fights. And both champions win in absolute dominant fashion. Zhang Weili dominates Tatiana Suarez, winning four of the five rounds, even getting a 10-8. and drink is duplice, 5045, 5045, 49, 40. It's over Sean Strickland to retain the middleweight championship of the world

as you welcome you to our UFC 312 post-fight show here on MAFighting.com. I am Mike Heck. That is Jed Mishu sitting right next to me here in Command Center 4.0. This is Nelson Mandela, Hero, King, Champion. And there you go. Congratulations. I guess this is in order to everybody. Good night, everybody.

But all right, Jed, we watch it in real time. We just wrapped up the watch party. We do have the press conference stream going on as well. So you can actually have like two screens going on at once with reactions and everything. But just your thoughts on the pay-per-view in general. Was this what you expected at the end of it over-expectations, under-expectations? Or is this exactly what you thought this would be? It was pretty much exactly what I thought.

said all week. Not all of it. Like, I got some predictions wrong, but fights played out like I thought. The whole argument for this card was that the top two fights are meaningful. They are worth your time. And I believe that to be true. I believe that to be true on paper.

It's hard to argue that they are not. It is the champion versus the number one contender in each weight class. And even if maybe they were not as thrilling, as spectacular as other fights you may get, we got a tremendous performance from Drickistu plus C in the main event.

I thought it was the best he's ever looked. Put to rest all doubts about the first fight, whether he deserved to be the champion, et cetera, et cetera. We got to seed growth development. It was, I don't think most people thought it wouldn't be that fun anyway because the first was a good fight, but it wasn't a fight of the year or anything. And we got something substantially similar.

Co-me event I was very wrong in my prediction because I thought Patiana Suarez was going to have a great night. But I was pretty clear. on this fight probably wouldn't be that dynamic. Either Swar's gets takedowns or she doesn't. And if she doesn't, she loses. She didn't and she lost. I did not know that Zhang would look so good.

And so I am, you know, slightly elevated, impressed by how dominant Zhang looked against a person who I thought was frankly going to be the toughest test for outsider was not mutus. And that was the selling point in the card. The other main card fights, we'll talk about them. Certainly, if you guys ask about them when we do the Q&A at the end, we'll probably talk more about them.

but they were what they were. They were not the point to come. This was a very boxing style of, you're paying for the two big ones. If you paid the money, you knew what you were getting into, and so I think you got your money's worth. If you randomly bought this for the first time

and you had no idea what you're getting into, I'm sorry, that's probably not what you wanted, but I think that this is about the card you should have expected and delivered on the expectations to me. We have bonuses. Bonuses. Okay. Let's play the bonus game because I don't know them. Fight of the night, I am going to give it to Crout and Bolato.

No. So then it must have gone to Cody Steele and Wrong Zoo. Correct. Okay. That's also fine. I think I would a favorite Crude Blotto. I thought that if I was really with fun, but nothing wrong with giving it to Rong Zoo and Cody Steele for Friday the night. Performance bonuses, I would be pretty surprised at Talasim to share it and get one. and Quillen, he got it in 10 seconds or whatever. Even though I do think that was a bad stoppage, they were both finishes in the first 30 seconds of the fight. It feels like those just get bonuses.

Yeah. So easy enough. There are your bonuses. Don't have any issues with those. It was pretty straightforward bonuses today. Yeah, definitely agree. DDP just continues to get better and better. This is not a competitive fight at all.

Strickland had moments, I think, in the first round where like things were close and I think it looked very similar to the first fight where Strickland would land some jabs but DDP would just hit him harder and then DDP just continued to make adjustments he kept going to the body over and over again we eventually he just shattered the face of Sean Strickland like it was just kind of tough scenes so we know where DDP is going right we know exactly where he's going he's going to fight Hams at Chimaif next and that is going to be one of the biggest fights of the year for the UFC unquestionably So I guess the biggest question I have for you right now is where does Sean Strickland go?

He's gotten the shot at Israel-A-Sahony, became the champion, lost to DDP in a super close fight. This one not close at all. No controversy, no nothing. There's nothing you could say about this at all that is just not like DDP just kind of put the boots to Sean Strickland for 25 minutes. Where does Sean Strickland go from here? Are we doing Apex main events again? Is he main card fighter? on a pay-per-view?

Is he fighting Adisani a second time? He's never fighting in the apace again unless he is stepping in on short notice to be that guy because he's a company man. Sean Strickland is popular. He's popular all week. Australia loves him.

Like he is a popular dude. He is main eventing fight nights. He is going on the road. He is a main car pay-per-view fighter. The feature bout for that, maybe even a co-main event. I know that his fights do not yield the same result as people probably want, but P is a very, very popular dude.

Basically, leading up to the Izzy fight, honestly, he was starting to get that momentum in the Pereira fight, got set back. Then it sort of blossomed in 2023 with that spectacular year. I think there are two options. Either way, eat that Reese is either of those two ways. It is either you pull the trigger on the Izzy rematch now because you may not get another chance. I think Izzy is very clearly in a precipitous decline for his career.

And so if you want to squeeze that lemon, boy, you better squeeze it right now. And I think you can. I think the other one, the one that I would go to, the one that I think makes a little bit more sense. And maybe I would say is more likely, you finally do the Robert Whitaker matchup that's been danced around a bit. They were linked. I don't know if they were ever officially booked against each other. I can't remember if they were or not. But it is a fight that was talked about for some time.

It's just the way to go. I strike while the iron is hot on that. if you don't the izzie fight is also there it's not a bad one i kind of want to see both of those guys just fight different guys like i know there it's i would like to that's just not how it worked like like i think anthony hernandez is going to beat brend and allen very convincingly yes in seattle in two weeks if fluffy hernandez does what i think he's going to do like he should get a fight like that like he should fight one of those two guys he won't but he should because middleway he's just going to continue to be, you know, and I understand the risks there.

Like you finally get Hernandez in there and he fights Sean Strickland and Sean somehow beats him or Robert somehow beats them. But I mean, we're just kind of at the point where it's like, we got to move this division along a little bit. Like we've got to find different challenges for DDP right now. And if we match up Strickland and Whitaker, like we're not creating new challengers, right? And this division is at a point where DDP has beat all these guys already. He finished Whitaker. He finished out of sight. beat John Strickland twice. He's fighting Hamzaat Yamai.

If he beats Hamzaat Yamai, is he just done at middleweight? Like, what are we doing here? I'mov and Boralio, but he may also be done. Yeah, one of those two guys. I mean, I'mov deserves a title fight,

no doubt. And if they do, there's certainly been some speculation from fans that makes a lot of sense to just do Imovov Barallo for the winner of Hamzaa DDP. I don't hate that if they end up doing it, and that would be an ironclad bulletproof title contender.

I think because you have, young dudes who are like a new crop of contenders who are there i am less opposed than i normally would be to doing let's recycle the same six dudes in around robin because i am usually super with you on that this one we've just wanted the strickland fight for a while the strickland whittaker fight for a while just give us that one and but i totally get it too like you do kind of want that's why i think the izzie is strictly you're doing it because you this is your only real chance to do it because otherwise I think is he should have to be defending against somebody further back. And probably didn't go very well for him, given how his career is looking right now.

Maybe that's wrong. Maybe it puts it together. But I think we will get Whitaker. I think that that is what I would do if I had the choice as well. And because there are just other guys who don't need the win to get there that, like, in other divisions, sometimes they just need the big name. Nassar Demova already got the big name. He's good.

Like, he can run right into a title part right now. Barrio gets, you know, Barrio getting that fight would be great for him. But if he just gets the Imbov fight, then he's already there too. So I think you can suffer that. Yeah. We'll see what happens with both those guys. I can't wait for DDP versus freaking Hamzaa. That's just going to be a wild-ass fight.

And we'll continue on. Zhang Wei Lee. She's the best women's fighter in the planner right now. She's one of the five best women's fighters of all time. We talked about this heading in. she should be our she won't be because i've seen some of the rankings we have some we have some hipster panelists out there let's just say that uh there are certain fighters that are ranked way higher on this women's pound for pound list than they should be but

you vote for who you want to vote for she should be the close to unanimous number one pound for pound fighter after this performance she may end up being i could totally see everybody coming around i do not currently have her i'll do my rankings up to tonight or tomorrow morning, as we do after pay-per-view events. And I am, my belief is that I will move Zhang to number one. I am not set. I want to look things over a little more, not be hasty. But there was just an unbelievable performance from her this evening.

Again, against the person I picked Tatiana to win. I thought Tatiana would be a very tough stylistic matter for based on what we've seen from John sort of historically. And it was not. The first round was certainly very competitive, touch and go there. there and then it was one-way traffic there she just had nothing to offer after that first round for for jang and given it is still weird with rose makes everything weird because rose at her peak is amazing but also has some really low moments in her career and so the two losses

to rose is a hard thing to parse and swallow but other than that she has been perfect and spectacular and so i think she will end up being my number one pounded down fighter yeah the rose one's kind of weird because she got kind of flashed and the second fight was like super duper close a lot of people thought jang won the second fight uh i believe i scored the second fight for jang um it just didn't it didn't go that way but since those two losses man she has just worked on the things she's needed to work on she has honed her craft in so many different ways and go back to the watch party and watch you and i's reaction to jang just walking out to the God, God.

I was when I knew it was cooked. Yep, that's what we knew. I was like, oh, sweet. I am, all of the bad things are happening right now. I actually thought Zhang won the first round. Like, I know that's kind of a hot take, and I know there was some bias going on because I had a plus money bet on Zhang Wei Li. Shout out to Zhang.

But again, like Tatiana landed the takedown. She had some control time. She did nothing. I thought we were going to get a stand up. Zhang was at least landing some strikes off of her back. Ended up the round on top, landed some strikes. At least stole the momentum. but I'm okay with 4946.

It seems to get the score, but he had... The score just didn't matter. I loved a 10-8 being thrown in there, honestly. Yeah, I think the 10-8 was totally justifiable. The score just didn't matter. As well as fights where you could have stopped scoring because it obviously was not going to come into play pretty early on. One fighter won, and however you want to get to that number, fine.

It was a clear dominant performance from arguably the best-down-fought-in-the-world and the world. And you said it already. I pitched it all this week, basically. I thought if Zhang won this fight, she surpassed, she would surpass you on a jachech as the greatest strawweight in history, uh, take you on a spot in the top five greatest female fighters in MMA history. I think that she has done that now. Uh, and it will depend what she does, right? Like, Zhang talked a lot about going up to 125. We'll see if she does that. I, you know, there's the vienna this is booked, which is weird. I don't know why they did that because Viernav would make sense as an obvious title challenge. She deserves a shot.

She deserves her crack. If she sticks around and says, hey, I'll do one more while I wait for Valentina and Manon to settle up, then I think it will be unquestionable. But she looked amazing and is clearly still in the prime of her career. I don't know how long that will last. 35 at some point by the time comes for us. But she can stack a few more wins. If she does go get a second belt, you know, that she really,

climbs the list of greatest female fighters we have ever seen. Was that her last fight at 115? I do not think so. You don't think so? I just, I think Manor has to get the next title shot at Valentina. And if that happens in May, it's a long time out. And I think that they will want her to run one. Because like, there's just no risk to are fighting vienna.

She's going to kill Viena. So like, you just kill Vina and then set that up for down the road. If she chooses, she says, I'm just out. I don't want to do this anymore. I'll vacate than it will be. But I think that they will come to her and say, hey, do one more, fight Virna. It's the last person you haven't fought. I mean, not the last.

She could fight McKinsey Dern or whatever. But no. And honestly, hell, Dern's coming off when. Maybe they just say, screw it. McKinsey Dern is the best ability. We say it all the time, Mike. Yep. So McKinsey Dern, really, she can kill whoever it is.

She's going to beat the pants off whoever gets in there with her. and then that gives it time to set up because you have to let Manon fight Valentina. Mano has done everything that could possibly be asked to earn it. She gets the shot. Like we talked about it on the watch party, I think that that probably will end up, we're not reporting shit.

Don't say, don't put it in the paper that I reported this. It would make a ton of sense for Valentina Manor to happen in the Montreal card in May. I think that that is what will happen. And so I think Zhang will get one more at 125 before making the move up. So we are not watching the press conference. Certainly not.

We're not watching it. We saw a message in our Slack channel. Oh, terrific. From one of our, I didn't see the message. I'm excited to find it. All I see, I'm not going to reveal names. All it says is,

Man in Fiore is going to cry herself to sleep tonight. I respond, what happened? The response, Dana White basically said he's going to make Jean Wiley versus Valentina next. that's dumb as shit, dude. That's so frustrating. That would be tough scenes, man. It's just so like, I, Menard could not have done anything more. She beat everybody.

She just kept saying yes. She kept winning fights, even fights. She wasn't supposed to win. She had to wait for a year for them to finally do Grasso, Shevchenko 3, just so they could do it at Sphere. And then they're just like not booking her to do this. Like, it would be so disrespectful. full. Like, I get it.

You guys really want to mash your action figures together and play with your toys. There is a clearly discerning contender at flyweight. There is a clearly discerning contend, like deserving contender at straw weight. Just let them fight each other. And then after that, the winners can fight. Seems simple enough.

That'd be tough for Madden, man. That would be such a brutal outcome for her. What is she going to do, fight Natty Ice? Like, she shouldn't have to fight anyone. She did everything necessary to get a title fight. It would be absurd, absurd for them to pass her over.

We'll see. Last question about this fight, and then we'll, you know, a couple quick hits and then we'll go to the peeps. We've talked about Tatiana Sores being the uncrowned champion for years. That was wrong. If you had a guess,

is Tatiana Suarez ever going to win UFC gold after what you saw tonight? I'll still say yes, because Starweets Garbo division and certainly of Zhang is a bad division. It just, it's the same people it was five years ago. Actually without a few. Yohanna and Rose have left or whatever.

And so, especially based on those comments, if Zhang is going to get the opportunity to bounce then like, I mean, I guess if she loses to Shivchenko, then she comes back down and then Tatiana's screw, but she goes and wins. I mean, I wouldn't like

bet the house to feel confident, but but Zhang Zhang also just seems like she has done her comments seem like she doesn't really want to be here that much more for straw weight so I'll say yes but there's not a lot of confidence in that and it's not yes

because she'll beat Zhang in the rematch it's yes because Zhang won't be in the picture and who the hell is going to beat her in this weight class right now yeah it's it's what John Wei against Vanager and Drova betting odds minus 300 higher no it's much higher After that performance, it's much higher.

Yeah. I don't think that's $5.50 probably. Like, it's a lot. Yeah, I don't think that fight's competitive. I do not think it is. We saw the Janjohn-on fight already. Jan gave her the best she could. And even still, that was not enough.

John still dominate her. Almost finished her multiple times. Like, she's in, I just don't think she needs to do anything else at 115. Like, Verna, sure, like, if you just need, like, a stay busy fight, sure. But, I mean, there's just not much for her to do. I kind of want to see her just go to 125. Like, if you want to do the thing where, like, she has to have the belt, like, that's fine. I honestly don't think that matters at all anymore.

Just go ahead and saying, like, just go ahead and just being a two division champion, no matter how it happens. Like, that's, it's not as sexy anymore anyways. Like, you know what I mean? Like, it doesn't have the same appeal. John Jones, like, no one was like, oh, John Jones winning a second belt was less cool because he wasn't the last. light heavyweight champion. It was just like, okay, now we went up to a new division and won the belt. Like, nothing matters.

I think they're going to want it. They want to put two belts on the poster. They want to make it look better. John had left the UFC for four years or whatever, so it's a little different. I think that they'll just want to do it. My stance on this is well documented. I'm sure she doesn't have anything else to do. I just want to see champions rain overweight classes because that's how you establish

greatness. that is historically all of the greatest champions in the history of this sport, they just have a whole bunch of title defenses. And credit to Zhang, I do believe she is the greatest strawweight champion in history at this point. She has four title defenses. That's not in the ballpark of basically all the other elite elite fighters. You know, that's behind you on it in total,

and it's certainly behind you on in consecutive because one of those defenses is split by the rows. So I would love to see her stick around and do it, because people don't appreciate that enough. I get it. To me, the best thing you can do is stick around,

lord over a weight class for years on end, beat everybody who dares come into your zone. And she does have, like I would pick her to beat Bearden up, very obviously. I pick her to beat McKinsey darn very obviously. She hadn't fought him yet. Maybe some things happen.

Weird shit happens in this sport. There's a reason we don't say, well, they would have won. You got to fight the fights because most people, betting wise thought Umar was going to walk through Marab, hand up, I was one of them. And they thought it's not what happened.

So I would like to see her do it. I get her not wanting to. Like I said, I'm still betting we get at least one more before they do it. But I'm less confident with Dana just telling me no, basically. It's a contract here, man. They're going to try to make the biggest fights that they can as quickly as possible. So we'll see. It would suck for Manon if she gets passed over.

but it wouldn't shock me. We've seen far more egregious things than this, but it would suck for Mana Fioro, absolutely, without question. It would just be so brutal for her. When I got a great deal on a great gift at winners, I started wondering, could I get fabulous gifts for everyone on my list? Like this designer fragrance for my daughter. It's just $39.99, how could I resist?

This luxurious will throw for my sister, this gold watch for my partner, a wooden puzzle for my niece? Leather gloves for my boss? Ooh, European chocolate for the crossing guard? At these prices, could I find something for everyone at winners? Stop wondering. Start gifting.

Winners, find fabulous for less. Okay, only 10 more presents to wrap. You're almost at the finish line. But first, there, the last one. Enjoy a Coca-Cola for a pause that refreshes. All right, so we have. the top two storylines who know what they are at strictest duplicacy at chang we lee what's number three that's a really good question dude that's a really good question so

i think the answer is and this is a bit of a cop-out i think the answer is tatyana swore's is the next biggest thing because so much was made about her for so long and we saw it on the watch party people were in the comments i don't think this is a just or true thing because I don't think the story of that fight should be. Tatiana Suarez was overrated or trash or didn't deserve it. I think the story should be. John Wiley is an incredible fight of one of the very best we've ever seen

and looked unbelievable. But I do think the story is going to be, I think that the next thing people will talk. After they talk, Jikis, Wiley, they will talk. Okay, what the Tatiana Swaraz just shouldn't have been here. Her career is never going to be. She is a what if.

What could have happened? happened back in the day. Now she'll never get there. Biggest moment of her career and laid an egg. Again, I don't think she laid an egg. I think Zhang forced her to lay an egg, but I just doubt, I don't, I know, I think I know where you're going to go with this. I just can't imagine people are really going to be talking that much about this when they could instead be hating on Tatiana Suarez. Yeah. Again, and the way I saw it, because the way I saw the fight from the beginning, this is the greatness of Zhang Wei Li. It's not because Tatyana Swars is a bad fighter.

It's because Zhang is really, really good. And she proved it. Like, I just, again, it's just, there are levels to this game. And I know it's such a cliche thing to say, but there are levels to this game. And Tatiana's beat some good fighters along the way. And who knows if she didn't get hurt and this fight happened in 2019 or whatever, might have looked different.

Who the hell knows? But it happened tonight. And this was by far. are the toughest fight of Tatiana Swarres' career. Like, without question, this is like two levels up from all the opponents you face. And I know Just Gunnj is there, but it's not the same Jessica. Yeah, that's old Jesse and Drag. Yeah, that's older.

Just Gunnjadj. So, yeah, it's just so good, man. Like, Tatiana had a decent first round. She got a lot of control time. She got a pretty easy game. She immediately got the takedown, which was like, as soon as she did that, I was like, okay, maybe we're going. And then that was the last takedown she got.

Yeah. She got it instantaneously, the very first one. and then never got one again. Yeah, Waley is just, it's just super duper good. She gave, she gave Tatiana of the respect.

She knew what she needed to do. She spent a lot of her training camp working on wrestling and defensive wrestling and just kind of being a hoss. And she, she showed all of it. So incredible stuff, credible performance.

Me, my top, my, my bronze medal storyline is Alexander Taforia. Like, we wanted to see what this kid could do. Like, did it blow the,

the doors off everybody no did he go out there and finish no but he did everything he said he was going to do he was going to go in there he was going to test the theory that oh if i get taken he's going to take me to deep waters all that i thought he showed flashes of brilliance in the fight dropped colby thickness hurt him real bad made colby real uncomfortable started rip into the body the belly to back suplex was nasty and then the round where colby thickness said this is what i'm going to take him to deep water around three to pouria just tackled him and controlled him and manhandled him around three like this is just the beginning of i i don't know if we're going to see like a meteoric rise like his brother but dude dude impress me man like look good yeah like ilia's debut was it was against us of zalal

he won clearly it wasn't it was wasn't like we weren't talking about ilia tepore after he beat Yous have a lot like, oh, this dude's going to be the next featherweight champion. That was the next fight. So from what I saw, pretty darn good debut. It was good. I had no expectations. I talked about this a lot this week. Like, we just couldn't.

I don't think it would be reasonable to have expectations based on his career. He beat a bunch of nobodies and looked great doing it. And so, but he looked amazing there. I also want to change my answer, Mike, because the third thing that people will be talking about. and this is super a cop-out, but it's actually that the announcement we got during the broadcast of the Hall of Fame, a fight being inducted into the Hall of Fame this year, Israel Disney versus Kelvin Gaslam, U.C. 236 in Atlanta, Georgia. I was at that one. Legitimately one of the three best sporting events I've ever been to live, one of the five best fights I've ever seen, though I'm willing to say maybe that's because I was there and so I had a different reaction to it as opposed to watching it home, but still one of the 10 best fights. I think no doubt about it. I think that is probably the thing. Though people do love a famous name. Alexander Tuporia obviously is a very famous name, but I think give me the

Hall of Fame induction for Israel, Dissania, even if it's in the fight wing. Yeah, very cool. We just saw some a clip. We have the UFC post fight show like on the background. And they showed Izzy face-time in Kelvin Gasselm and them sharing the moment and all that. And, hoping Israel hoping Calvin will be there in June for the ceremony, but Calvin's about to get into a fist fight with Joe Piper in Mexico City, which that one might not go very well for him. But who the hell knows? I don't know.

I actually think that could go really well for him. Really? Interesting. Joe Piper, his game is functionally entirely hitting people really hard and Caled de Gasom can't die. That's a good point. It was like as far as things go is pretty decent. But we saw what Sean Brady did to Calvin Gasselham.

Well. Sean Brady is very good at a different kind of fighting. I mean, Sean Brady and Joe Piper train together all the time. I don't think it's going to be the same, but we'll see. We'll see. We'll see. We'll see. We shall see. All right. Let's go to the PUC. You do have a couple of super chats. Let's get to those first. I do before we get to that.

I do also just want to shout out because it was the feature bout. It was a very silly feature bout to put a UFC debut tant against a guy who's like one in three in the promotion in the last four fights. Tuson DeShara just blew the doors right on off of Justin Taffa, and he is 26 and a true heavyweight. And I'm genuinely interested. Like, heavyweight, a heavyweight prospect, Mike, is the rarest thing in this sport. It is rarer than gold.

It is rarer than, frankly, a Tatiana Suarez fight is a heavyweight. And we have one. So I am, that's the other guy. That's the low-key hero of the night to me. Also, also the lucky hero is, I don't know if it's Jimmy Krue to Rodolfo Balato. It's probably both of them. You want to know why? Because tomorrow when we do on to the next one, we don't have to match me for either of them.

We could just skip right over that. It makes the show. I didn't even think of that. That's what a hero move for now. Terrific. Run it back. And neither of them lost. It's all good.

Nobody's a loser. They didn't win fire the night, which is a shame for them, but that's okay. All right. Matthew Ravelli, thank you. Most meaningful win for anyone. tonight was way lee in my opinion number one pound for pound active women's m may fighter a lot of people are sleeping on her mostly jed he doesn't know poop okay i was wrong like i i predicted tautiana to win and that was not because i thought wailie sucks by the way it was i just thought

tautianna's going but she did not not even remotely no fight was not close and we knew the death also so we're clear when you say that i'm sleeping on her i'm fairly confident i was the person in this space, not just our website. I haven't heard anybody else talking about. This being the most meaningful win and fight because she would be the greatest, one of the five greatest fighters of all time. That was me. So I'm not sleeping that much. There you go. Spencer, man in the hat, Chuck M compared UFC to the attitude era in WWE right now. A lot of issues with what Sean and others say, but still find them to be interesting characters. Thoughts on that comparison. I mean, this is much more your bellywick.

My understanding of the attitude era is that everybody liked it. I don't particularly care for the pre-speech era parts of things, but I don't know if people didn't like the attitude era. Everybody talks about it as if it was the greatest thing that ever happened in pro wrestling. It saved wrestling, like no doubt about it. I don't think this is saving in the MA at all. No. So if that's the comparison.

Yeah, but we also didn't have. like Stone Cold Steve Austin wasn't cutting for almost like Sean Strickland is cutting promos. He would say ass. Like that was and that was like, wow. Well, the 90s were. And he would, he would fight his boss.

Like that's, I mean, and there were, there was the godfather. I'm just certain that not, not all of it was great because nothing, it's not. It was.

Anything in history has like problems. It wasn't. But I do my understanding of the attitude areas that is fundamentally different. from outright big. It was, yeah, there was not a ton of that. It was Crash TV. It was the Jerry Springer show, but with pro wrestling.

That's what it was. But it was not anything you could maintain for long periods of time. So, I mean, I guess I kind of get it, but we're also at a point right now where literally the UFC can do no wrong. Like if Sean Strickland didn't come on and say the thing Sean Strickland says, this doesn't affect the UFC's bottom line at all. Like, you think Sean Strickland's media day sold one extra pay-per-view? No, it didn't sell one pay-per-view.

On his live chat this week, Luke Thomas had a interesting take that I'm not sure I agree with entirely. I started to think about it, but then other shit got in the way. His position is that really the free speech position from the UFC is it just provides them the most latitude and leeway for their business. Because if they had to police somebody, then maybe that affects a fight down the line. Maybe, oh, well, now a week before a title fight, Sean Strickland says something terrible in Australia,

and now we've got to pull them out. And so if we just say it all goes, we don't have to care of the almighty dollar is the thing in charge. I'm not entirely sure that's true, but I don't think it's wrong either. And that this is not, whereas the attitude era,

to my understanding, was a concerted effort to push boundaries. I don't, I think this is not, an effort to push boundaries promotionally this is them just saying i don't i do not want the responsibility of managing any of this shit yeah and i also think to some extent and i'm not saying this is like right or wrong or that's just how he does things but i think i think there's a part of dana white and his ego that loves getting shoutouts from the tucker carlson's and all them in the world on twitter i was going to go allowing this i was going to go to your other longstanding dana white opinion which

I actually do think is probably more of it. I think Dana found himself in a position and has dug his heels in. Yeah. Like I think reasonably Dana actually does know that there should be a consequence for Bryce Mitchell saying something like that. 100%. But instead he's like, I can, I refuse to walk back a position. I'm in this room.

I'm going to die on this hill. I am curious to see if like if this was the 79th ranked featherweight, if it would be the same. I mean, that's why I thought there would be something. because who gives a shit about Bryce Mitchell? He's 14 or whatever, but it's feathered. It's a division with plenty of good people. They let Georgia...

He was also a Trump's inauguration too, though. Yeah, but... They're running around the same circles. Could be just a little bit of a loyalty play. It could be a favor. Could have been a favor, too. Maybe. I honestly think it is...

I think the simplest explanation to me is that Dana does not want the responsibility to do it and that part of it is him just being stubborn of, you guys really want me to do this and I'm not going to. I'm not going to because I refuse to be controlled. Which is, you know, we can do. He's in charge.

It will also be interesting. It'll also be interesting to see how the TV deal goes. And if the TV partners will allow. I don't know, man. ESPN. Part of me wouldn't say that there could, but ESPN is a Disney-owned company, and they have not given one shit,

which has baffled me, but they sure haven't. Yeah, because they've been, they've made them money. Yeah, they don't care. That's the thing. Whoever it goes. They go to Netflix. I don't think Netflix is going to please them.

Maybe somebody ultimately will, but no. Welcome aboard Air Canada. Rocky's vacation here we come. Whoa, is this economy? Free beer, wine, and snacks. Sweet. Fast free Wi-Fi means I can make dinner reservations before we land. And with live TV, I'm not missing the game.

It's kind of like I'm already on vacation. Nice. Air Canada. Nice travels Wi-Fi available to AeroPAN members on equip flights Sponsored by Bell. Conditions apply. See Air Canada.com That's annoying.

What? You're a muffler. You don't hear it? Oh, I don't even notice it. I usually drown it out with the radio. How's this? Oh, yeah. Way better.

Save on insurance by switching to Bel Air Direct and use the money to fix your car. Bell Air Direct, insurance, simplified. Conditions apply. All right, RS 40. Nobody will talk about it. Shout to Gabriel Santos. Dude looked good.

I thought he beat Lorone Murphy in his debut. Hey, he looked great tonight. You are stone correct RS 40. Ain't nobody going to talk about it. But overcame, getting dropped in that first round, head kick right upside the dome piece. Threatened with a triangle, arguably won that round. I don't think he did, but clearly won the next two. So, yeah, great performance for him.

Spencer, enjoyed all your thoughts on Cruz retiring, Faber Trio Legendary. Still convinced Fabor won the second and deserved a UFC championship. is the winner of Shemai FDP a top five pay-per-view star. Maybe just because they don't have shit for pay-per-view stars anymore. Like right now, it's ostensibly, I'll say Connor, but Connor don't fight.

So if you remove Connor and his non-fighting ass from it, uh, Jones Pereira. Islam, maybe. I was going to say maybe, is he just as a residual? Yeah. Like from being famous. Um, I don't think is.

on, but maybe it's on... I think his on draws more than we think. Maybe. I think Tupori is on his way there. I know that Sean O'Malley is not really nearly as big a pay-per-view star. He's a star in other ways. Social

he is a monster and stuff, but based on all the reports, all the stuff I've heard, his pay-per-view numbers are not like much bigger than you would expect from anybody. So possibly, I do think DDP is on the cusp of being as big of a relative star as you can

the sport right now. So UFC has made a very considered effort to remove stardom. The star is the letter. The star is the brand. You can be a star within the confines of their overall structure, but they don't want anybody to be bigger than the business. And there weren't ever that many people who could threaten that anyway. But really, that's not how it goes now. I think he is pretty close

because Sean Strickland is popular. Is he is popular. Robert Whitaker is popular. These are, all of his wins are meaningful wins over big names. He is care as whether you like him or not. I think he is super good on the mic. I think he is as close as you can get to kind of breaking out into that 600K by thing. I don't think he's there yet. Maybe the Hamzaat gets him there.

Like, because Hamzaat is so popular, that fight will get pushed to the moon. Maybe that is the fight that elevates the winner of that to that sort of tier of star. Yeah. I think the first thing you said was correct. There are no people who are stars. I ain't.

There's just, there's, the thing is there are, but the, the term is different. A pay-review star used to be somebody who could sell 800 to a million.

Now it's, every UFC pay-per-view does 350. If you can sell five, you are a star. Yeah. Or you can sell a little bit over the average. Yep. And it's just,

the UFC, those three letters, and Dana White are the stars. Dana's happy to be the face. He loves it. He loves being a celebrity. Just absolutely loves it. And he's very good at it.

it. In today's society, he's tremendously good at it. So it's just a, it's a weird time in the promotion. That's for sure. Very weird. Definitely. An entirely anecdotal, it does feel like there are fewer stars than I've ever remember being around. The fewer that people know outside of our bubble. Take a few more. Toporia versus Venetius Olivera winner gets to fight Umar. That's way too quick.

Yeah, that's a, it does. terrible idea. I mean, it's kind of a fun idea as far as like if you're just looking in his name, he has to fight other people. Also, I mean, I guess maybe, Loke Dog is a psychopath. He might take it, but Loke Dog deserves better. He deserves done. Loke Dog deserves a ranked fighter.

Yeah, and given what he's done. So, um, look, we don't have to run. He's like 28 or something. He's not hold. We don't have to rush everybody. We can, I promise y'all, instant gratification is almost never the correct way in any walk of life, certainly not in fighting. Do you favor Zhang in the Schifchenko fight? I don't, but again, I was super wrong about Zhang in this fight.

I think Schipchenko is much larger than her, and that size matters. I think Zhang is a big straw weight and clearly a physical specimen. I think Chivchenko spent much of her career at phantom weight, and that is a huge difference. I also think Jean would really, really have a hard time landing on her on the striking. Not impossible, but Chichenko's very good at measuring distance, keeping you away, and she can use that size advantage. And then when they get in close, I think she wins those, just outweighing her by 10, 15 pounds.

But I'm not opposed to that fight because it's a bad fight. I'm very interested in that fight. I'm opposed to that fight because there are other fights that should happen before that fight happens. why didn't Dana praise DDP and promote DDP versus Shemai if all he did was praise how professional Strickland was. I didn't see it,

so I don't know for sure, but it seems kind of a weird stance to not push DTDGSche. We know that that's happening and that's going to get the full promotional press. So it kind of doesn't, like it would always be a little bit better.

I think Dana, I don't think that there was a reason think Dana was just speaking from his heart of, man, Sean Strickland lost, and given some of the stuff he said recently by recently like three days ago and then he stole the microphone from Daniel Cormier,

that could have gone terribly. And instead it went super well. Like he had a charming post-fight speech. Credited DDP, gave a lot of love to the crowd. So I think that that's him just speaking from the heart because he does not have to promote that fight now. That fight's going to get the full, the full Monty when it comes.

Like I said, I think it's coming. international fight week, and I think that they are going to give it a big press. Jake, how good can Prado be super young? Might be in the wrong way class, but what do you think after that fight? I've liked Prado since he joined up. I picked him in this fight. I knew that he could lose, but I do think he is in the wrong way class, think he should be a lightweight.

He's 22, and he doesn't have that many ideas. He's got some skills, but it's like he, he's just super young. He probably would be better served not being in the association. see right now, frankly, and just developing his game out more. But he is fun. Every time he steps in the cage, he is fun. I think he has a potential to be more than just a fun fighter, but at a baseline, he's going to be a good time.

Interesting, back to backs here from Joseph Bosa. If we get Valentina versus Whaley, does it prove that Dana is desperate in a year where their contract with UFC is up? What would be crazy dumb fights we get this year with the contract up? I don't know. I mean, I don't know that it proves it. I do think it would speak to than wanting to do bigger fights,

you know, trying to make the biggest fights they can. I don't remember what the second part of that was. Like other crazy dumb fights we could get this year. I mean, I don't. Maybe Pereira and Jones, but. I mean, really the big one is, it will speak more to me.

If they do Islam versus Ilya, like next, then that would speak to me. Like, has there been some rumors? If they skip over Volk. Elia's Diego-Li will not be the featherweight champion if that fight had. Yeah, if they skip over Volg and Diego Lopez and freaking Moussar, who all deserve their shot to just make that happen and force Islam to fight another featherweight, that to me would be them just, like, that would be a clear sign of them just selling out to try and make headlines

because people will be interested in that. That fight is... The fact that so many people want that fight is absolutely ludicrous to me. It is unhinged behavior. Like, I want to see that fight. Why should his law market have to take that fight? That is no upside for him in that fight.

He's a top pound pound fight in the world, and the knock on his career is, well, he fought a featherweight twice and then two dudes who used to compete at featherweight, one of whom is on the door to retirement. like it's just you should not book that by any means when he has three dudes that he should fight first at featherweight yeah so if they do that that will speak more than this one to me i mean this would be this would be like islam's choice right like if islam asked for it if islam asked for it then but to pouria

to be stripped of the title if he does this i would also islam has been very vocal of saying no i do not want to fight another featherweight. I would like to fight up if I am going to do something like that. I think it's much more explicable to say they're just, Zhang has been a great fighter for them. They respect, she's accomplished. They want to see her get a shot at.

I think that's a more obvious answer to me. The follow up was, does way they need to move up to fight for legacy or is this about getting Valentina an easy defense? That's crazy. I don't think either. That's true. I don't think it's an easy defense.

I will pick Valentina to win. I would not say it's easy. I do not think Whaley needs to move up to fight for legacy because when y'all say that and I'm not saying you were saying this person but when people say that statement you are presuming victory

it is not she's got to go up to fight because then she can win and be a two division champion that can happen and that is great for your legacy if you lose it don't mean jack shit because how is Alexander Volcanowski's legacy benefited by losing twice to Islam. It is not. It is a net negative for him because he lost one of those.

He got knocked out and then he got greased up. Then his very next fight against Dupuria. Like, it is only good for your legacy if you go up and win. Whereas if you defend your belt over and over and over again, I say it so many times, that age is better. There have been like 10 champions. I think the number now is 9, 2 division champions. there have been five champions

who have defended about more than eight times. It is an impossible thing to do. Your legacy is better served by that. It's also more likely that it is far more likely that Zhang Wei Li can beat McKinsey Dern and Vienna Janjarova and whoever the hell else they drag up at 115 and have an unimpeachable run that exists with the greatest ever

than it is that she bumps up and beats, for my money, the second greatest female fighter of all time who also weighs 10 pounds more than her. She could do it. If I'm telling her, like, you should probably just fight these women, you're going to kill. Sure. I mean, but if she's already cemented the greatest straw weight of all time, then... Yeah, but it ain't none of that.

I mean, she has it, but, like, that is beatable. Because the thing now is it's not to get to it. Now it's to set you apart from the next, from the next people come. Because that's my case for Islam. I think Islam should stay. lightweight. He is, if he is not the greatest lightweight of all time, I don't quite think he is, but he's certainly in the conversation. If he gets two more title defenses, I would bet a lot of money. I will never see anybody put six title defenses up at 155 the rest of my life. Like, he could be

untouchable if he just runs it and instead of wanting to do other things. But nobody thinks that way because that's not the where we live in this sport anymore. All right. I'll take a couple more super chats. We're going to get out of here because we still got a million things to do. on the back end of all this. Chase, if Dana had fighters hitting pregnant people with cars in the year 2025, would he even do anything or are they truly hands off these days?

I do not, I do not remotely think that he would do anything. I don't think he can. I mean, he can. They still technically have an athlete conduct policy, but they just don't. Yeah, certainly. But after the whole, and look, I don't want to get into the whole

who did what on New Year's Eve. But if Dana wasn't There's no way you can punish a fighter for pretty much anything unless you straight up kill a person. Yeah. And outside of somebody going to federal prison, I do not think that they will ever inflict an enforcement until someone makes them until the outcry is there. It's just not going to happen. And frankly, we can even be honest about this. There were plenty of people at the time argued John Jones should not have been stripped.

I understand that argument. I'm not entirely sure I agree with it. but I do like there is a credible argument of okay he got into a traffic accident it is very buzzworthy to say he hit a pregnant woman and then fled the scene you don't it's not like he was hunting her down in the car a pregnant lady crash run away like he got in a car accident and fled the scene which is bad I'm not defending the actions but that makes it sound worse when you frame it in that way and there is a reasonable argument to say I'm not sure we should strip champions for fleeing like for a misdemeanor crime. And people were making that argument at the time. So I think there's just zero chance anything would happen now. GFrain, do you guys think the Tafas will end up on the same GFL team? I mean, no, because they are not going to hold an event.

That would be a terrific gimmick if they did. The expansion team, the New Zealand breakers or whatever they would be, and the tafas were the heavies. But GFL is not holding an event. So no, I do not think so. And let me also just add on to things. The taffas will be employed with the UFC for as long as they may as well. One, cheap labor, two, they either get or get got real good.

They get got and they get real fun. They don't make the judges work all that often. Yeah. Like Justin Taffa was there for one reason and one reason only. Justin Taffa wasn't there to win tonight. Justin Tafo was there to lose in the exact, way he lost tonight to get over a contender series guy in the exact way he lost tonight and guess what his next fight will be against another heavyweight who will probably do the same thing to him so probably

or he'll kill him and that'll be fine too and that's fine just and tuffa right i know you're watching i know that you love all the enemy fighting content which obviously it's great content we're the best website it's a terrific website but justin this one's for you i want you to look me right here Get rid of the damn beard. Your mustache is majestic and you are hiding it with the rest of the facial hair. Bring that down. Full bar, strong caterpillar, and you will win fights. All of the highlights they showed of you winning in your package before, it was without the beard.

You didn't have any of this. You were just all right here. You looked like freaking Ted Lasso and it was unbelievable. Go back to that little. you'll get back in the wind column, I promise you. Love it. Ryan, why is Dana so focused on trashing Aussie liberal media? Because...

I mean, Dana White is deeply not liberal, so I'm going to guess that has a lot to do with it. Dana White is also pretty anti-media. I'm going to guess that has a lot to do with it. Yes, unless you say glowing positive things about Dana and the UFC, he doesn't like you. And I mean, that's just it. so he wants people who will not be media but partners like the boxing media he sees what some of the

boxing media is like and he wants that he wants nothing but glowing reviews and that's why even though they're killing it and mMA is getting more popular it will never be to the level of the NFL or the NBA or any of those other major sports because of that so it can't be taken seriously unfortunately uh question for you jad would you rather see the volk versus ilia rematch or volk versus dustin porre just for money as dustin's last fight i would much rather see

uh vote versus dustin pori when i say that ilia deporia should fight alexander volkonovsky that is based on how the sport has operated the last several years i do not believe alexander volkinovsky deserves a rematch i do not believe any champion deserves an immediate rematch unless there was something, it was a bad decision,

there was a robbery. I think champions who lose should have to win a fight before they get back there. That has been my position for as many years as I have been on video for this freaking website. I am only saying he needs to fight Volk because that is the fight that they make and have for years at this point.

I would much rather Volk say, screw it, Diego Lopez, it's your time. You go fight him. Let me fight. Let me fight Dustin Porre in a legends fight Up at Lightweight Make a run up here

I can have some fun That is a fight that I would be super interested to watch I think is a fight that is much more meritocratic Honestly if you were asking me to pick any fight I could pick For Volk I don't think that I think that's the fight I don't know what other fight I would be like I would rather see that fight for Bulls like no He's old

I want him to do the Legends tour Dustin Porey has one fight left. I think it would make a ton of sense for Porey as he pitched to do Gachi trilogy in Louisiana. They've done one in Justin's backyard, one in a neutral. They do a closing shot for the trilogy. Absent that, Volk is about as good of a possible retirement fight as I could think of for Porier.

I'm fully on board with that plan. It won't happen, but I would love that to happen. Max would be good too. It'd be fine. The fact that Dustin just beat him. Oh, you mean, do you mean Max for Volk or Max for Dustin? Max for Dustin. Man, the fact Dustin beat him twice and, I mean, I would still watch it,

the two of the six most exciting fighters ever at worst. I would certainly watch it, but, yeah, man, just give me, give me the Volk fight if we're not doing the Gai Chi trilogy. We should really do the Gage. Cole is in Louisiana, so he's been doing a lot of media. He was on with Jim Rome and basically said the O.C.'s going to Louisiana. He said it's not official, nothing confirmed. but based on my talks, I think, I believe his phrase was,

it seems like it seems very likely that I will get to retire in Louisiana. They have not been in New Orleans in like 10 years. Kind of would make sense, honestly. Particularly, I want to do a salad for Dustin. Whoever you put Dustin against would be fine, but I would love the Volkviger time. That would make all the sense in the world to me. Well, stick with us at M.A.fighting.com. And when news breaks about what's next for Bullock or Dustin Poria or I'll let you know about it.

Jake Paul. Jake Paul. Who knows? All the names. Could be anybody. But we're done. We are out of here. You can go watch the rest of the Post-Fight press conference right now. AK and I live 11 a.m. Eastern tomorrow. On to the next one. Matchmaking suggestions. We'll have some fun. For Jed, I am Mikeak. Thank you for watching.

Good night, everybody. I told you all about Elliot. or not alia, sorry, DDP. Love y'all! To the Vox Media Podcast Network.