MMA Fighting - UFC 323: Merab vs. Yan 2 Preview Show | Pantoja vs. Van

Episode Date: December 5, 2025

Merab Dvalishvili looks to successfully defend his title for a record-breaking fourth time in a year when he faces Petr Yan in a rematch in the main event of UFC 323. If Dvalishvili pulls it off, is it the greatest year in UFC history? And how surprising would it be if Yan delivered an upset? Ahead of Saturday's pay-per-view event, MMA Fighting's Mike Heck and Alexander K. Lee preview the UFC's final numbered event of the ESPN era, and the historical stakes attached in the Merab vs. Yan 2 bantamweight championship headliner. Additionally, topics include the co-main event for the flyweight title between Alexandre Pantoja and Joshua Van, how the Brandon Moreno vs. Tatsuro Taira winner factors into the championship discussion, Henry Cejudo competing for the final time, what we'll miss — and won't miss — about the UFC on ESPN pay-per-view relationship, and more. Follow Mike Heck: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@m_heckjr⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Alexander K. Lee: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@AlexanderKLee⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ http://goo.gl/dYpsgH⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Check out our full video catalog: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://goo.gl/u8VvLi⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Visit our playlists:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ http://goo.gl/eFhsvM⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Like MMAF on Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow on Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://goo.gl/nOATUI⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Read More: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Learn more at snapdragon.com slash laptops. Battery life varies significantly based on device, settings, usage, and other factors. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. All right, everybody, we are gearing up for the final UFC pay-per-view, at least for the foreseeable future, everybody. UFC 323 closing out the ESPN pay-per-view era. is a pretty darn good card. I'm looking forward to it. Is this going to be one of those events that draws in a massive casual audience? Probably not, but for us hardcore mixed martial arts fans, for us hardcore UFC fans who don't miss a single event all year round, this is a pretty

darn good card. History could be in the making for Marab de Volusbili, looking for his fourth successful title defense of 2025. He defends the Bannamweight Championship against its old. old pal, Peodor Jan, in the main event. In the co-mate event, Alexander Pantoja, looking for his fifth flyweight championship defense. He's taking on the surging Josh Van, who competes for the fifth time in a 12-month span. And then a pretty darn good main card and some prelims that have some stakes or some storylines. All in all, not too shabby on paper. So welcome to the UFC 323 preview show.

I am Mike Heck and joining me to discuss this event on paper. The significance, what it could all mean is the co-host, the co-matchmaker from on to the next one, the Prince of Positivity, but most importantly, my best friend, the one and only, Alexander Kaylee, aka happy Friday afternoon, my friend. What's all my best friend? This card is so good. This card is so good. Like, the more I look at it, I'm like, damn, I am super pumped to cover this for M8Flein.com. Even if I wasn't, I would definitely include this in the, like, the pay-per-view budget. It we've raised this question multiple times, I think, this year.

I can't remember if I started asking this last year. But, like, if you only had, if you could only buy seven, you know, UFC peer reviews, they do what, 14 a year? So you can only buy half, you know, which ones would make the list? I'll have to do a full sort of accounting and go back and see some of the cards we've had because we've had some awesome paper views. We've definitely had like two or three that on paper we were like, you know, you could save your money.

If you have a budget, you could save your money. I want to say this one would make the cut. Again, I don't know how many I've already said, because if I've said seven already, then, I mean, it doesn't really, not really fair to put this on there, is it? But if I haven't, I think this is such a good card. Mike, we were, we get to give you a little info here. Like, we were kind of trying to do, before the show, trying to figure out, like, what fresh angles can we sort of come up with here? Because we've sort of talked about this fight to death, this card to death. We've literally, we've seen DeVosjeli and Jan fight before.

I mean, it is a new matchup. Of course, we're not the same guys, but we've seen it. We are rehashing a fight from a little over two years ago. It's not like it was ancient history, but certainly long enough ago. We've talked about, you know, how great Pantosia is, how overlooked he is. We've talked about Van, God, an incredible story. His rise to the top from, you know, fighting in 2021, how young he is. Like, we talked about us so many times.

So we'll try and find some, like, fresh stuff here. I have a question. I have a question. And I'll let the fans chime in, too. Let's say this kind of card, it's hard to kind of place these names in a different era. But let's say this was, you know, early, let's say late 2000, early 2010s when UFC was at as like peak sort of selling pay-per-views were like, you know, a bad UFC pay-per-view sold like $350,000, right?

I mean, this was the golden age of UFC pay-a-babby-view time. Let's say we're in that era, and let's say we had Maraub, Pantogh, and a card like this. Mike, how many pay-per-view buys does this do pre-streaming? There's no streaming. It's only pay-per-view. How many pay-view buys this is do peak, peak UFC pay-per-view time? Connor McGregor. Let's say, you know, let's go forward a little bit.

Connor McGregor's around. People are just snatched up to write. how does it do like probably below average what is it below 500 oh for sure this does below 500 no not about it

but it's again it's not it's not because it's bad it's just the big like those big selling pay-per-view cards it was either like during COVID where there's no other sports and you know Mazadol at the time when he stepped in to fight

Usman that was like a really big deal for that fight island card so like that did really well in pay-per-view because mazadol was so over and he took the fight on what four or five six days notice and he had to cut all the weight and there were other title fights and it was like wow this is this unbelievable fight island thing that dana told us about because no other sport no other entity had the guts to put on an event and then you know if we look at like conor habib and like john jones daniel cormier and Connor anybody like those were the the ones that did over that were either close to a million or well over a million and then you have like I guess your GSP's your your Brock Lesners like some of those are big some of them were like you know seven eight hundred thousand and then you know you get some cards like this where you know it's just high level stuff but the lower weight classes typically don't sell particularly well and now you have two of the very best to compete in either of these two divisions as great as they are. they're just they're just very respectful very good fighters and the things that the type of things that sell paper views at least getting it over that threshold or was trash talk or bottles being thrown or slaps in the face or things of that nature and you're not getting any of that here and you also mention the main event is a rematch and a fight that was not competitive it was not competitive at all but yon has done the work to get back to it and barab just is

beating everybody and now he's lapping them a second time because he's already run through the entire division. So it is a card that signifies sort of greatness, not just from the present in some cases the future, but even the past when you look at Brandon Moreno being a two-time champion, what Henry Suhudo has accomplished, and Jan Bahovic was a former champion. And now you're getting sort of the new era of guys coming up and getting their chances like Jan and Tyra and Talbot and Bogdan Goosekopf. So it's like, Jedd sort of laid it up perfectly. This is one of those like perfect end of era cards where it's like the UFC didn't give

you everything. Like you're not getting Ilya. You're not getting John Jones. You're not getting Max Holloway. You're not getting the star power. But you are getting damn good fights. And you're getting a lot of storyline. And you're getting a lot of high level stuff.

So I just think this is one of those like in the prime era, 350,000? like probably a DJ main evented kind of a card sales maybe what do you think? Yeah I don't know I just don't know how much of a draw we kind of danced around a little bit like even if you've become

a fan of Marab and let's be honest Marab I think had to work a little bit to win over the fan base I think people like his personality for sure but he had a reputation for just going to decision all the time just grinding style quote unquote weaponizing cardio whatever phrase you want to use for his style which is not super fan friendly like let's

let's just be real about it even his championship run there's been fights where like you can be impressed with his skill you can be impressed with his dominance but like the first Sean O'Malley fight wasn't like an amazing fight it's not like some fight like oh wow was a fight of the ear can it's like no what Marab did what Marab does and again some people will like it a lot of people will not like it um he's not the only champion to be like this my my goat at GSP I think people forget in his era how many of his title fights were criticized for like he didn't have that relentless Marab base but he certainly had fights where he just was so controlling and so neutralizing.

And as much as GSP was a huge, huge draw on his day, like he had a lot of his fair share of critics who didn't like his fighting style. So Marab is like that to like another degree. He's like the evolution of that where I think we all admire the dominance. Three, you know, potentially four tell defenses in one year, successful title defenses, 14 straight victories. But it's a hard sell to, again, you're just your Joe Blow, a sports fan. The guy who I talk about it, like he said, like, is only going to buy.

seven pay three half the pay reviews or less is only going to buy four pay per views a year like marab respectfully it's just not making that list is not making that list and um again that's just there's all listen all the man does is win it is not his job to be a balls to the wall entertainer it's a job to win fights and if people like that great if they don't it doesn't really matter because he's keeping himself the top he's getting big paychecks um so yeah you know part of it is not just like um part of it's not just like the division it is the guy who happens to be the champion of the division right now uh i think we can agree of Sean O'Malley were somehow the champion, his fighting style, his personality, the way he connects

with sort of a different demographic. There'd be a broader appeal. There'd be a broader appeal, right? This is just, this is just like just talking numbers here, right? And it's right for Pantosia. I mean, flyweight, flyweight. For some reason, it's just never going to connect the people. But Pantosia's weird because he's such an exciting fighter.

I don't know the last time he had like a super boring fight. I think that, you know, the Roy VAL rematch was definitely a little disappointing. otherwise like pentos is just in bangers man or or the or he's dominating people with his graphic which is also fun and actually finishing so but he's a flyweight he's a flyweight so i guess that means he just can't be a draw which is just absurd so we had this weird mixture of guys the card that's why we keep saying it's a hardcore one because it's if you like if you know you love exciting fighters then you love fantoia but you're not going to sell a casual fan because of flyweight and if you love you know dominant champions like mara but you're not

going to sell casual fans because he doesn't dominate in a you know in the way that people like yeah I mean, like the San Antonio Spurs won a lot of championships, but people watch the Bulls win on the championships because they were exciting and there was always stories. Is this Jordan's last year he's going to retire? Like there's so much casual interest in it or he could watch Greg Popovich coach Tim Duncan and the gang. And you're just like, oh, they're just going to do everything by the book beautifully and win, but they're not just that you're not going to see Spurs highlights on top 10 of Sports Center. It's just pivot step, hook shot off the backboarded in, Colin Banks, all that stuff. And that's what this card is, just greatness personified, plus a potential passing of the torch in a lot of respects. And I guess one of the questions I had heading into this event, especially when it comes to Marab and Yan, and it's kind of like twofold now heading into this because we've sort of broken down everything there is to break down from a stylistic perspective on this fight.

How can Jan win? Can anyone stop Marab? Is this too much? Is four fights at a year and cutting this weight having to hit 135 or less on the dot? going to catch up to barb like we've talked about all of this stuff if marab wins this fight a k if he goes out there and just beats yon again the only year i can really think of that would hold a candle to this in the ufc i know shogun and what he did in pride i think 0405 maybe the greatest year in the history of the sport this is john jones's 2011 aka ryan bader

in february of 2011 six weeks later, he stops Shogun, wins the UFC light heavyweight title. That was March of 2019. March 19, 2011. Then he takes a little breather, comes back in September, finishes Quint and Rampage Jackson,

then he's back in December, and he finishes Leota Machita with a true, a true standing guillotine choking. That in a lot of people's eyes is the greatest year in the history of the UFC. If Maraud de Wallis really beats Peter Yan tomorrow,

in the main event four title defense has never been done before is this the greatest year in UFC history from a fighter I mean I can't get there man I can't get there you just running back like John Jones's incredible year he had

I got a little bit of the gooseys like just remembering how how hype those things were and again I know I know we don't want to say it's all about hype I know we're trying to be objective here and say like well you know there's a quality of the wins equal and like yeah the competition that Mara

beat is just is great like if you want to put omali umar umma oh sorry umar omali san hagen yon over that jones run there's a case to be made like there there is a case to be made it it's it's brought down to a little bit a little bit by these fights being rematches um the the second omali fight like great great by that maraub did even better that time actually finished it he just wasn't a fight anybody was asking for right uh the umar win fantastic maybe the best win of all the fights you just mentioned mike i think the umar win is going to age so well, especially if they fight again, and no matter who wins, if he beats Umar twice or Umar beats him, and that first win is going to age really, really, really, really

well. Sanagan play was fantastic. I just don't think Sanhagen, unfortunately, is held in the same esteem as some of the names that John beat. And then Yon's a rematch, right? Yon's a guy he's already beat. So it's just missing a little bit of that. It just doesn't feel special, which sounds weird because we're potentially about to see a guy defend a YOC title four times in one year successfully, which has never been done before. But I'll also go with Jones above that. I think I think the Jones was so not the best year ever but yeah but the fact that he'll have an argument man I mean good for maraub because again there was that time I still I still remember this time we weren't even sure when he was going to get a title shot al jamein was at the top we all knew marb could

be good do we know he could be this good I don't know Mike pretty down it's free down all right it's pretty wild man like this is this is a sum year and and normally you hear fighters say like oh I'm going to fight all the time I'm going to do this I'm going to fight do you remember we were like in January when he fought umar he's like yeah I'm going to fight three months more times this year. We're like, no, you're not. You're insane. People say this all the time. You're not actually going to do it. And now he's out here doing it, A.K., this is just unbelievable stuff at 135 pounds. But he is facing a Piotr Yan who this week just seems, like, if you watch this Media Day, Piotr Yan, like, I've interviewed him a few times. He's pretty stone cold.

Once in a while, you get a little smile out of him. But, like, he was this jolly good fella at Media Day. You're smiling. I'm ear to ear, baby. This is coming out of Piotrion's mouth. And then, And, you know, Marab tried to ramp up the intensity at the press conference like he typically does, starts yelling and screaming at Jan for making excuses because he had a hand injury. And he did have a hand injury heading into that fight. Just like Marab had an injury heading into the Umar fight, but he won. So, I mean, you can kind of look at it from different directions. And I guess you can kind of understand where Marab's coming from.

But Jan has just been cool as a cucumber, having a good time with all of this. How does Jan win? I guess that's like the question I have. he's so talented and if we look back to where you know 2017 2018 when he was really coming up you know when he was beating your eye and beating jimmy revere and beating all these guys and we're looking at him like this dude is going to be the champion at some point and then he wins the belt and then the whole aljab thing happens and you know it's just been kind of uh he scratched and clawed his way back to this marav fight after getting just ridiculously run over how can yon win

like i and and this is not a disrespectful question i'm just curious What is his path to victory here? Is it just he's just got to catch Marab's, like, sleeping or trying to play around and land a big shot? Like, how does he do this? My best friend, I'm glad you asked. Because I actually like both challengers champions on Saturday. Not so much that I would, not so much that I would pull the trigger on either. I'll be honest with you.

And I don't like Jan's chances as much as I like the van. I think most people would be in agreement with that, you know, fans kind of love more of a wild card. We don't know how good this guy's going to. be maybe he peaks on Saturday and has like the best the best performance of his young life and then we you know we suddenly have this new start 125 I think that's like believable I think people can see a path to that um yon it's just tougher we just saw them we've seen them fight we've seen we know what yon can do we know what maraub can do it feels like maraub has gotten better at what he does it feels like yon has also gotten better what he does but what marab does very often neutralizes

what guys like yon do so that that is the tricky part to making it believable but uh I will say like I think the one thing that's happened during a lot of Maraub's fights is yeah, he's winning rounds, but I think there's, I don't know if people realize how close he is, I think, to losing some of these rounds. There are rounds where he's just totally dominant to smother's the other guy for, what, you know, four minutes.

Clear, clear 10, 9, no issue there. But there are rounds where he gets hit, right? We laugh at Sean O'Malley kind of talking about, like, oh, I won that first five, blah, blah, like, clearly he didn't. But he did realistically point to, like, moments we're like, oh, I kind of had him hurt here, and if I'd be able to land more shots here, It's a lot of ifs, a lot of ifs.

But that's why we do these fights, right? That's why these rematches happen. Because you can see a world where Jan is able to stand his feet just long enough and win the striking exchanges. Again, not as easy to do now. I think Marab's striking has improved so much since the first John. I'm not saying he's as good as Jan, but clearly he's way in striking. The Marab of today would kill the Marab that fought Jan the first time in a stand-up battle.

He just looks so much better. So there's a little more confidence there. but I just like and maybe I'm just selling myself on this rematch because I want it to mean you know I want this 2025 we're talking about from Rob to mean more than than maybe it does but I like the idea that hey if yon he maybe he gets taken down but is able to get back up and does has this flurry in round two oh yeah this flurry here around four not even need a knockdown but had this like one defining moment or one round that was super close but could have gone either way two of the judges see it yon's way like this is going to go to the cards right I don't think we're going to going to play that oh yon has a puncher's chance that he needs to knock marab out i don't think that's going to happen and i don't think that's i don't think that's his only path to victory i think there's going to be some close rounds in there and if one of them goes to yon and again and he managed to have some good moments other rounds he could 48 47 this i'm also one's people i'm definitely concerned about the um four title fights in one year three title fights in six months

like and and rob looked great looked great on the scale didn't look uh didn't look that depleted at all but it has to take something out of you so if you're talking yourself to yon like i said those are the reasons. You think he can, again, he just has to win three out of five rounds, which is more than capable with his abilities. And maybe, maybe the Marab that steps in there is, you know, 80% of the Marab we're used again. Maybe that's enough. I don't know. But like I said, I'm certainly leaning towards champion, Mike. But I don't think Jan is like just a complete waste of a, of a challenger at all. No, I definitely think it's going to be obviously more competitive fight at the first time around.

I don't think Marab is just going to like 50, 40 to him, which is how like, pretty sure how I scored that first fight because Yon literally did nothing for 25 minutes, but just got run over by the whatever that was from Marab on that car on that night at UFC Las Vegas, not even at the apex. They actually like went outside of the apex for like a 2,000 cedar because power slap had to take place to the apex. And we missed those days where they got out of the apex and did some fun stuff with at least some crowd. But my money bet wise is on Yon, A.K. It's not like your typical, I'm picking him to win, but I am alternate point spreading the living crap out of him, plus 13 and a half points, uh, minus 200 is my bet. I think Jan can win a

round. I just need him to win one round in this fight, like a clear one round and he, and he'll, and I will cash that. Plus 13 and a half. So, okay, let me, I'm hurting my head here. Okay, so this is, let's do some math. So if, if Marab won every round, uh, let's say 5045 across all the cars. That's counts of what? That's a plus, what that I lose? That's plus 15. Yeah.

So if he 5040, if he gets two 5045s and a 49 46, I lose, I think. So, okay. If you got three. I know. Yeah, 13 and a half. So he just can't get 5045 across the board. So 3.49.46 is you would still cash. I would cash that.

Yep. Interesting. Wow. Wow. Interesting. Don't bet it haven't made people. Don't bet it in May, but I'm just saying. But I do think it's going to be closer.

But I'm not, like, confident. I don't know, like, I don't know if Jan wins two rounds. But I think he win one. Sounds like it, right? I think he can win one. I'm just, that first round is going to be so curious to me. Yeah. Because both guys typically don't win the first round.

Like, Marab got kicked in the face a few times by Corey Sanhagan. Like, he got, Corey had a great first round against him. And I thought that's how the fight might have gone from start to finish. And then Marab was like, watch this. I'm going to start striking with you and almost finished him on the feet. in round two so it's like whoa but marab usually is like kind of a slow starter and then he's as jed likes to say he's a snowball rolling downhill and then it becomes an avalanche and yon usually takes the first round to just kind of gather information and let his brain kind of dictate the adjustments

that need to be made but you can't do that against marab like you cannot lose a you cannot lose the first round to him so do you do you think we'll see a world where yon just becomes like the anti yon and just goes bananas to start this fight? I hope so, man, because I feel like he said that before, or I feel like that's at least been brought up to him in a post-fight press conference. Like, you know, do you feel like you need to be, you know, start faster? And I don't think he's ever committed to just say, like,

oh, yeah, next time I go out there, I'm just going to go berserker and, you know, make sure at least win that first round, maybe have a chance in an early finish. I don't think he's done that. But I hope his team has mentioned it. I mean, look, these two squads know each other really well, right? I mean, he's fought Yon already.

I'm sorry, Marob and Yon have fought already. And Yon has fought Aljo twice, right? much data on Peter Yan that I think for him to just stick to a routine which would be crazy right you don't want to go reinventing the wheel on yourself especially when this could be the last your last chance that you challenge for the title right if you don't win but you have to know that you've guys been playing this long game this long game chess match and everyone has seen each other's moves but now you listen we've cleared the board and and maybe you do something out of the box at the full him so I would love see Jan come up to a faster start if you He wins that first round. Mike, I think your bed is pretty safe. And, again, I think anyone who thinks Jan has a chance, I think they'll be feeling much better. They think they'll be feeling really comfortable.

Like I said, he is, I do not expect him to get 50-45s. And if he takes, like, a close first round because just an activity or on Rob's side or whatever, just maybe on both guys' side, it's really not crazy to see him taking at least one more round. And then after that, got it. And you leave in the hands of judges, who knows. So it's going to be, it's going to be an interesting fight. I almost wish they were closing out with the co-main of him being honest dude. that things will be a little more exciting.

But it'll, you know, well, this will be a fine, technical battle to close out the night. Yeah. Currently, according to our friends of Fan Duol, A.K. Marab, I mean, just a humongous favorite. Mine is 480, the comeback on Peter Yan plus 350. Seems like we're both on the same page here, where Jan is a little more competitive, but it just is not enough to stop this incredible run. Yeah, it's, like I said at the beginning of the show, Mike. it's just been hard to talk about this card in any other way than just going like

Marab is going to make history and he's going to set this record and then we'll look we're almost already looking ahead to 26 right we're almost looking at head to oh could this set up the Marab Pantosha super fight can Umar get his rematch in 2020 like it's so it's it's really disrespectful to Jan but you just can't help it just based on the run that Marab has been on and also that we saw the fight it's so hard to shake off that first right like I said I know it was like over two years ago um where it's quite some time I'm not saying the guys are the same but it is really really difficult to picture this going like completely different from their first fight like i said i think yon can do more and possibly win but i think it's still

going to look similar at many parts and i think for fans they make a bit of a of a deja vu that they're not like super uh excited about have you have you have you gone back and like ever watched that fight a second time not recently it's it's still as bad as i remember it but the weird thing is despite me still scoring a 50-42, I thought, like, Jan, at least, like, from a defensive wrestling standpoint, actually did a little bit better than I thought he did. It wasn't much, because Marab shot 50 friggin' takedown attempts in that fight.

I think he shot 49 and landed, like, 21 of them. But, like, Jan did okay. Just, I mean, how could you... That dude shot 50 frigging takedowns in a fight. That's insane. I just don't see a world where he could do that again. I don't. So I like my bet.

Could I lose it? Yeah, this is a pretty good chance. But I think Jan's more competitive. And this could be his last chance to fight for a belt. So it's a big legacy fight for him. I am, I am certainly intrigued by it, even though I think Marab will win. And then we'll have, like, different conversations to talk about. He will certainly be the fighter of the year if he wins this fight.

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Head to your local CVS or CVS.com to grab the sunscreen that works for you. 2025 was a wild year for the tech industry. AI seemed like it took over everyone's brains. It was the only thing anyone wanted to talk about. Invidia became the most valuable company in the world. We had some huge new video games. The Switch 2 launched a lot of people got it. There was just a lot going on.

And on the Vergecast, we are talking about the best, the worst, the most important, the biggest heel turns, all the stuff that happened in 2025. And making maybe a few predictions about what's going to happen next year. All that and more on the Vergecast, wherever you get podcasts. This series is presented by Jira by Atlassian. co-made events flyway title a k joshua van this man has just come out of nowhere unranked to start the year then goes on this this nice run i think everyone sort of pinpointed this guy is a couple of years this dude's going to fight for a world title he's going to fight for a belt and then he gets the back-to-back wins in like a month's time including the brandon roy vall win which was

probably the fight of the year i think it's going to get a lot of votes for fight of the year and from unranked to title shot he got in with Pantosia at UFC 317 and they did the little face-off and now Joshua Van is a chance to become the first UFC champion ever born in the 2000s AK and he's taken on Alexander Pantoja who has just been absolutely spectacular as of late so your thoughts on this co-main event Josh Van getting his first title shot at such a young age and are you buying into the maybe this is too much too soon for Josh Van sort of

storyline that has been attached to this fight. I don't know. I get it. It's certainly justifiable to

frame it that way because Mike, do you know what Joshua Van was doing? Like, when he made

his pro debut, we're talking October, 2021. At that point, in Alexandria Pantoja's career, he was 24 and 5.

He had just submitted Brandon Royval on their first fight um he was it was this was sort of the you know he was making his way up and earnest back to the rankings right and it was kind of hard from to get the marino fight oh well he was stuck because marino and um uh uh that figgy were confining each other so many times so pentil just couldn't slide into the equation but he was he was moving up there like so he was in clearly one of the three best flywoods in the world when ban made his pro debut and then somehow their

past have just i mean and then van went crazy he's about 17 times in four years um and he's gone crazy and he's earned this shot let's need he's earned this opportunity um but it's just it's just weird to think about that way and that that is obviously where a lot of the too much too soon thought comes from um we we always talk about man like you know crone man strength and you feel like van is not it's not even near his physical prime yet uh pentosia is a monster he's he is pound for pound one of the probably one of the strongest fighters in all of mama um definitely definitely uh top two top three strongest fly weights maybe i i keep thinking number one i just don't want to you know forget anyone um but he's certainly in the in the conversation he's just so strong as

grappling is so strong um so i don't i don't want to say too much too soon because i like van a lot and like i said i actually kind of like his chances just because his style i think is really conducive to winning decisions um especially in the kind of fights the kinds of fights that like pantosius often finds himself in he gets into some wars sometimes the big question is you know can can van avoid being dominated by pandoja's grappling and i think he really does have a chance there but it's one of those things we'll find out early right we certainly found it early with Kai Sakora. You know, Kai Sakura, I think we thought, oh, this guy's explosive. If you can avoid

getting taken, nope. It's got taken down pretty fast, and yeah, he's got another form on the ground. Kai Kar and France had nothing for Fantosia on the ground. So, like I said, I think Van is better than both of them with the ground, or at least, you know, scrambling, you know, being able to get up. But I could be totally wrong. This could honestly

be a repeat of the last two fights and could end within three rounds, another submission. So it's, it's, I don't think it's too much too soon, but that could certainly once again be the narrative by the end of the night i love van's sort of reaction to all that like what am i supposed to do just like not take title fights because i'm too young so i shouldn't have fought brand roe vall because i'm too young and then i went out there and beat him i think i i don't know what to think about this fight because like everything everything inside me tells me

that pantosia is just going to clobber him that this fight's not even going to be competitive but van is just he like he surprises me every time he fights like i know he's good but he's so wise beyond his years you know what i mean like he is he is so mature as a fighter and he doesn't let any like the BS around him like really get to him he just kind of like takes it and has fun with it but man if if pants gets him down early he is in such trouble like this fight will be over within two rounds if uh if if pants is starting to get takedowns consistently and i'm sure josh and his team have prepared for that daniel panadets did a great job like getting him to this moment but boy oh boy i just i actually feel like this is going to be

less competitive than the main event i don't know and it's nothing against josh and i i don't like to really like go into the you know this is too much too soon but it kind of might be honestly but i would pick pantosia to pretty much dominate everybody in this division so this is not like knock on Josh and I actually feel Josh is I feel Josh is more competitive than Kaya Sakura or Kaikara France are going to be

but this is not a indictment of Josh Van's skills this is just how great I think Pantosia is right now like you can make a truly strong case that he is the best pound for pound fighter in the world and I will listen to you I will listen to you he won't win votes

because he's the flyweight in a sport where the Islam Machachev's and the Iliate's poor as those guys are stars, but I kind of think Pants is just going to submit him inside of eight minutes. And Van's going to try his ass off, and he's going to do his best. I just think Pantosia's that good, man.

And you could be totally right. Like I said, that I think the back-to-back Kai wins are still very fresh in people's minds. And it's hard to, again, not imagine a guy who was less experienced than those two guys, probably like, again, just talking about physical maturity, certainly behind Kai Kar-France and behind Kai Sakura. So how's he going to deal with it?

I don't know, man. You feel exuberance. Like I said, maybe they've got the secret sauce to keep in Pentosha off of them. I'm just a believer. I don't know. I'm just a believer that he has a chance. Like I said, I don't know if I'm flat off picking him, but I am a believer.

Mike, you mentioned Pentosia might be the best pound-fighter in the world. I so, I can't really credibly do it, but I so want to argue that if he, if he put on a dominant performance over Van Doja, whether finishing him or winning like a 5045, 49, 46, something that, he's, I feel like he's much closer to Fighter the Year than people are maybe giving him credit for. I think it's close. I think it's hard because you can't compare Cody Durdin and Bruno Silva to Umar and Sean O'Malley and Cori and, like, just the quality of Morav's wins, so high so that's like that's where it gets you know that's where you lose it but man to beat again

the number two and number one guys in your division and arguably like the pound for pound best fighter in the world would be incredibly impressive so he's he's probably at best a strong runner up two fighter of the year but i will really have to think about if he's somehow if he's somehow just you know cody garbant dominic cruz uh if he pulls that kind of thing off against pantoja i would really have to think about it he's number three if he wins and if he wins and marab wins he's number three you're putting him behind islam Yeah, gosh. I don't know.

It's hard for me with Islam because going up and dominating JDM, amazing, obviously. The guy's unbelievable. But that plus the, like, the Moikana win was such a write-off. And it's not his fault. That's the story of Makachap's career, right? We're looking at his resume. I was like, oh, he didn't do this. He didn't do this.

Yeah, but he was booked to fight this guy, this guy, this guy is not his frigging fault. He's great opponents just keep falling out. It's totally not Islam's fault. But at the same time, that is the luck of the game, right? These awards sometimes go, you know, you're not in control of these things. And I would definitely have him about Islam. But I do think, yeah, Marob's, it's a lot harder case to make. But we'll see.

Again, he has to be Pentosia in the first place. And I just don't know. That's going to happen. And as Jed pointed out, Chefchenko probably deserves to be on that list too. And of course, you know, and the year ain't over yet. My boy, my fantasy MMA MVP, Waldo Cortezza Costa could get one more in. You never know. Could get one more next week.

He is. I heard, I heard he's living at the UFC apex. I heard. I heard he's actually, they've told him to leave. And he's like, nope. He's like, I've got a little cot. He's like, I'm set up. He's like, I think he's going to be under the cage if someone is there,

is it even a heavyweight in that card? No. On 13th? Yeah. I don't know. I'll look right now. Sean, oh,

oh my God, there's three. My apologies to gear, May Pat and Alan Fry and Sean Schroff and all these guys for competing on. God, if any one of those guys fall out, he's definitely fighting. You could see Waldo fight Marcus Puchetcha.

If the cards fall. If the cards fall a certain way, Mike, we can get also if i'm telling you right now and and for those saying there's no chance there is a chance they are literally they are truly trying to get to find a spot for him on that card but i think at this point it's one of these heavyweights has to fall out and then he could slide in there's three chances that's all i'm saying there's three fights i don't know i'm just saying he could do he fights out of those guys he's going to be in and either in 30 seconds and that's just another win so we love we love to see it we love when that happens uh two interesting title fights how surprising would it be

because i i know i know like josh van winning isn't like super surprising to you but like what do you think the overall reaction will be if josh wins do you think people like i cannot believe this happened or how do you think or do you think more people kind of be like on your side where josh is a better chance than most are giving him i think it'll be very similar to the tj borough vibes that's kind of what i'm getting from this is like because t j was well recognized as like someone who could be a champion someday i don't think they thought he would be a champion as early as he did but yeah right right right right right right right right right right team alpha male at the time like he was he was their guy he was their guy was like yeah this guy could become the champion and he's

and then he started making insane leaps and bounds of the striking and um and the brawl fight was thought of as being maybe too much too soon right they were like oh is this he's not ready for this borough has won something 30 something straight fights um and uh dillosh out put on a virtuoso performance that we still talk about to this day it was an incredible performance um so maybe that that to me is what it would feel like it'd be like oh wow we it's not that pentosh is bad but it's like maybe we just saw the emergence of a guy who is going to be a champion and a top five flyweight for the for the next decade right um so that might be the case with van so it'll be surprised for sure but i think it'll also be very easily rationalized within uh within like

48 hours. I think people will kind of figure it out. I'm like, wow. Um, but also, you know, Pentosio will get an immediate rematch. As you should. Yeah. Which would, you know, push Keoggi back a little bit, but I just, I mean, you see pants versus Keoggi at this point. Like, I know, I know. That's, that, that's just, that's, that's big business. That's what we want to see right there. Uh, rest of the main card, pretty darn good. We get Brandon Moreno, uh, against Tetsu Ro Tira. Really like that matchmaking. We had the final fight, at least we think. And I get, let me just be honest. We hope. is the final fight of Henry Sehudo's career.

I think he's done enough. I don't think he needs to do much more. Taking on the young Peyton Talbot, who's on the come-up. We have Jan Bojovich back, AK, taking on Bogdan Goosekoff. And let's do a little fun activity here. Let's run down the rest of the prelims because, honestly, I forgot some of these fights are even happening until this week because of the focus on the main card. Grant Dawson Manwell Torres is the featured prelim

I think people are talking about that We'll talk a little bit about the Chris Duncan Terrence McKinney fight in a moment Because people who like to play the ponies Have obviously been paying attention to what's been going on there Macy Barber's back fighting create a Silva We have Nizim Satticoff versus Foresiam Which is going to be unbelievable I cannot wait for that fight

Marvin Vittori versus Brito Ferrer Who missed weight, A.K. by what three pounds or more three pounds one eight me biggest fight of his career and he misses weight by three pounds and he came in early too didn't he yeah he came in essentially saying like yeah i'm not going to make it absolutely i'm let's letting you all know yeah it's unbelievable i want i need to go rehydrate right now uh jail the jalen turner back from his lengthy retirement uh minus 300 again said some barboza ebo versus ewo the people's main event we have mansar abdul malik versus the poker playing Antonio Tricoli and Myron Santos versus Muhammad Naimov.

I love this card, A.K., the first three fights, I think people are expecting, I think Naimov Santos is going to be a really good, fun scrap. Mansour Tricoli is going to end in like 35 seconds. And Ebo, I think the UFC and everybody else is hoping that ends in like two and a half minutes or less. So, but the rest of the fights, like literally the next 11, 12 fights are all like super interesting, right? I like this card is just it's just so solid there's not a bad fight in this card I'm saying it's not a bad fight there's not a fight on this card that I can't find some level of intriguing um the only ones I would be like maybe my turn out not turn out great is I have no idea what's going on with Marvin and Bruno says now Bruno missing weight he looked so bad on the scale oh my gosh I think Joe I think

Jose was saying because you know Jose could see a blow off to the side he's there in Vegas that like his team was essentially helping him up to the scale as far as they could take him before like letting him yeah he did not and you could just see when he was down the scale look miserable um i think we have him on our front page guys you go to like our mfite.com um just look at the feature image i chose for the way in results he the look in his face he's this is not a man who looks like he's ready to win a cage fight on saturday uh very bad very bad for him from bruno hopefully he's okay would not shock me in the slightest if let's say you're if you got let's say you guys are listening to this uh show tomorrow uh on saturday that uh by the time

you listen to it, the fight has already been canceled or something because I just fanned it did not look good. It did not look good. I'm a little worried about Ewo and Ebo as well. I do think this should be a showcase fight for Ewo coming off the contender series. I should really use her last name. It's confusing. But it is light heavyweight, which we all know, light heavy weight can give you very middle weighty.

And there's a chance one of those fights, just neither guy is kind of able to find the range or pull the trigger. And they're just kind of dancing for three rounds. But that's it. This is nitpicking. This is like the most pessimistic view of some. of these fights i find everything here so intriguing macy barber might actually fight fingers crossed we will see um so some great lightweight action this is this good stuff oh myron sandals

also missed weight by the way so a little bit of a bummer there but that's an intriguing fight that's an intriguing isn't myron wasn't he moving oh no he didn't move up he moved up to lightway just to fight with sadique yeah but he's he might have to go back up huh it feels like that's something he enjoys doing and uh may have to do in the future he's not a huge guy too that's so frustrating for me is i think he does he is a bit stocky I do think there's like a, you know, but height-wise, he's not a really tall guy. It's like he's some towering featherweight.

I'm a little of this point. I feel like I'm sorry, I'm not in myrons camp for anything. I just feel like he can make $1.45 and this is some other issue. Do you care to take a guess who the biggest favorite on the card is? I know who the biggest favorite of the cart is. He's one of the biggest favorites of the year, I think. One Mr. one Mr. Mansour Abdul-Malik. Minus 1300.

What? Minus 1300. Oh, my gosh. I saw like minus 1,000 earlier in the week. I don't know if it's moved or I'm looking at a different book. My God, that is wild. Yep. Big favorite.

So that's great. Like, that's so crazy. Because I know Chocolie, what? Chocoli's own two. He hasn't even won the OEC, right? But like, it's not like Mansour is, I know we like him. I know we all see him as being this future destroyer. But I kind of always say this.

Like, no one with this few fights should be like a minus 1,300 favorite. Like, I think that's just absurd. of course there's something like you know like a bone nickel or someone like coming from another combat sports discipline like a kick or like a kickbox or something like that but i mean minus 1,300 for a guy who's in his third UFC fight I don't know like I said if I was a betting man I put five bucks on chicoly what's chicoly underdog then like plus 730 I mean you still five bucks on two dollars on that right because someone so many things can happen but yeah I'm picking mansor but again if I were betting the two bucks on chakoli yeah mansor it'd be

He's one of those, like, really solid projects that Extreme Couture has right now. And Eric Nixick gets to kind of mess around with, like, just this, like, incredibly solid, like, natural prospect who just, like, has everything that you would want from someone who walks into the gym and starts trading. So, and now it's just trying to, like, mold it all together into a position where you make sure he doesn't go up too fast. I think it's actually really good matchmaking for him. We're getting, like, a little more of a veteran-ish kind of. of a name, but not too crazy. So we're just, like, slowly moving up the ranks of, like, guys, he should be fighting. So whatever Atiba Gautier has been doing, like, this is the exact path, Mancerra Abdulmelech should be on as well.

So, all right, let's go to the peeps. Let's see what you guys all have to say. So I'm touching a lot of this stuff already that I've seen from Joseph. We'll start here. Will Grant Dawson get a top 10 guy if he wins? he is 11-1-1-1 having to fight unranked Manuel Torres. No idea. Lightweight is tricky, man.

Lightweight is such a difficult division to move up in because they have so many guys that they're, so many guys coming into the division that are good. And then you can kind of be slotted into that role of the guy, like the guy testing them. Like that's what's happening with Dawson. He has higher ranked than Torres. I think he has to be higher ranked than Torres, right?

Torres is unranked, supposedly? Torres is not ranked. Yeah, he's not ranked. He beat what he was the Dober? Was it the Dober win? overwin yeah damn that was nasty um so i don't know if they view doston in that way his record looks fantastic of course uh there's no denying um but that's not all that uh lightweight either right i'm not crazy right aren't some of those uh featherweight fights where he like missed

weight and stuff he's not he's not like 11 one and one and 155 pounds i'm pretty oh no no no no he has been i mean he has a good 7 1 and 1 7 1 okay so i got my own notes here which still very good again that division going 7 1 and 1 is freaking crazy and he has been fighting good guys it's not like he's been fighting it's just a lot of top 25 guys in there that he's gone up against so yeah he looks really good i just don't know how they view him and and it sucks but i think when he says stuff and i because i thought it's hilarious when he says stuff like oh i'm just gonna hump this guy and making a boring fight cool funny thing to say matchmakers dana white it's funny sorry they might have a laugh with you but like they're not gonna like they're

not gonna like hearing that so um i i think i will he get if i had to bet if i had a top top 10 person next i'm yeah my shaking i say definitely no um just to give you guys some of the names that's for example like this in the top 10 he's not getting uh i don't think he's getting uh i don't think he's getting um gamrod what is that some these people might be already booked apologies guys i'm just gamrod he trains with so i don't think he's going to get no bsd i don't think he's going to get bsd no maybe maybe that's and that's my number 10 so that's my number 10 in my rankings so that's it so will he get a top 10 guy It's really only one or two possibilities.

And I just have a feeling he's not part of that equation right now. Like, I think Benny would be pretty good. Like someone like Daryush, that'd be like an interesting one. But like, I know he keeps calling for Chandler, but Chandler ain't fight. And Moikano's not going to do it. Fizziv's not going to do it. BSD's not going to do it. I mean, he's probably like maybe fights like Mauritio Hoofee next or somebody like of that ilk.

The Ignacio Bahamundez is of the world. like but all they then these are rank guys but yeah it's too bad because like i think a lot of it has to do with his fighting style which is now not really aesthetically pleasing but like i'm trying to like i'm looking at his recent run here so let's see since he got into the ufc julina rosa mike shrizano derrick minner he missed weight by a bunch for that minner Nad Niramani Leo Santos which is the nasty

like end of the fight slam and hammer fist thing with like one second left in the entire fight the drada Ricky Glenn taps Jared Gordon taps Mark Madsen beats Demirs Magulov

good win and he gets colded by King Green in 30 seconds beats Joe Selecki Rafa Garcia and Diego Vajara if he beats Manuel Torres convincingly

Is this, is this his best win? This is best win? Do you think it's his best win? I mean, this is McGulov win is pretty good. That age is pretty decently. But I don't think he fought, did you? That was his last fight in the UFC, was the last degree in thousand. Yeah.

I think finishing Jared Gordon is very impressive. But yeah, it'd be up there. It'd be, it's a good good win, too. See, that's a very good win. But it's not like. CDF five years ago no yeah I mean yeah depending how he finished you know I'll say if he finished him finish him I mean I would like to see him be a little more active too I think the thing that really helped Grant is he just fights more yep you know what I

mean like he's fighting I'm trying to see has he and at no point has he fought three times in a year since he's been in the UFC I don't think and January to December is such a huge gap it's almost like people didn't see you all year right I hate to say yeah like you mentioned the cdf fight i barely remember that that happened in january like that was two fights two fights in 2020 two fights in 2020 two fights in 2021 two fights in 2020 two in 2023 two and this is a second of 2025 he needs he needs he needs he needs a marabia like that's what he needs honestly like this is what gets you over this is what gets you this is what gets you these types of fights this is what get you rising up the ranks this is what

put you on the UFC's matchmaker's maps is like yeah we can rely on this guy because he fights like all the time that's what he needs he goes out there and like wins this fight and then steps in on short notice at like UFC 324 or something boom you got something then maybe you can start getting these fights but and yeah i understand the the ranking hogging thing but despite the record like he people don't view him as like a meaning and and i i he is a meaningful win to like us but going out there and like like patty pimble beating bobby green is like a great win that's how people view like oh that's a really good win for him beating grant dawson is like he's just he's just not there you know what i mean it's just not that he's just not

fighting often enough for people to really like gravitate towards him which is a shame because he is like the low key like funniest dude on the roster like his media day was incredible he was so fun you could pull like 10 reels from his media day and they're all great but he's just again in today's ufc you become a star by fighting a lot and just always being out there yep so he needs something like that to really get him going so we shall see if he could do that and uh it's a good fight it's a i'm really looking forward to that one because manuel is dude is nasty dude is nasty Right now is the AI Gold Rush.

And that means everybody who builds an app, a platform, a piece of software, a gizmo, that somebody, anything, everybody is trying to put AI everywhere. And for two weeks in a series on the Vergecast, we are talking through what that looks like. We're talking to developers about what they're building and how they're building it. And whether AI actually does make sense everywhere or is just going to ruin everything in the process. That's the AI miniseries. on the Vergecast wherever you get podcasts. This series is presented by MongoDB. Race the runners.

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What else we got? What else we got? Last UFC pay-per-view ever. What event slash fight comes to mind when you hear those words, pay-per-view? Gosh, so many. We kind of discussed it earlier. Like, honestly, the, I mean, the guys become a mess. But the Connor Greger era, well, I think of Connor Greger and I think of Brock Lesnar, I think of Ronda Rossi.

I think those people that, these kind of people that just took things to a level I never thought I'd see, like 1.2, 1.3, 1.4 million pay-per-view guys for the UFC. I was like, whoa, and the amount of, like, buzzed up your time by it. Like, those three are, right, really the definition of modern prize fighting, right? You can love them, you can hate them. But they understood the game. They understood the game. some of them have lost the plot since certainly but in their primes boy did they understand the game and uh they're probably underpaid too i let's be honest guys like connor and brock for sure not making as much money they should have been because you saw the massive numbers that the uc was starting to put up um so yeah i think of those guys i think i think of the legit crossover stars there's other consistent draws we mentioned gsp before um chel sonan anderson after the chel sonan fight anderson sylva like it took kind of that few kind of took them to the next level and sylbo was consistently drawing in the 700 800 000 range. John Jones never quite got there. There was like a few grudge matches that did like,

I think, I think, I think 800,000 plus, something like that. So when I think of really, really, really the pair of you stars, I'm talking Ronda, I'm talking Brock. I'm talking, uh, Connor McGregor. It was a, it was a wild time. I still remember just that whole, that whole stretch of stardom that they managed to have. And you can really draw us just such a direct line between that era and where we are now. Like, you can kind of see how it got so big. I mean, I sound like an old kerbudgeon, but it's 2016. When I think of pay-per-view, I think of 2016. The greatest year ever in MMA, the greatest year ever for the UFC, like so many, they did a bunch of million pay-per-view buys events that year.

And this whole, the whole trajectory of the sport changed, like, with pay-per-views that year, with Nate tapping Connor on somewhat stepping in for RDA and, you know, the Misha Tate title win. And then the UFC 200 thing went down and then the sale of the company. And then we had UFC 202 and Connor got his comeback. against Nate, and then the performance against Eddie Alvarez, the UFC 205, and the 206 was like this under the radar, like, and 198, like, we had two underappreciated pay-per-views that were like two of the very best ever, but like get forgotten in the shuffle. UFC 199. There's obviously a lot that happened to UFC 199, uh, beyond just fighting. UFC 206 was like a spectacular pay-per-view that was just sort of like shoved in the middle of UFC 205 and UFC 207, which was headlined by the return of ronda rousey and she just kind of got the ship beat out of her by amanda nunez so like people forget like how awesome 206 was that's where we got the the cubs wants and doho choi fight

matt brown don't seroni was awesome before serrani got that nasty chaos uh the max holloway era sort of continued going uh i mean it was just such a great year i worked the uc event i worked the ufc event for the first ever event that i worked for a company worked as media oh look at Look at this. I should have remembered that. I said to you. Yeah. There's a story is way better than mine.

Yeah. But it's just one of those things where, you know, when I think about pay-per-view, like 2016, it was just one of those things like, because I was trying to like get people where I was living in Western Mass, like super into the UFC. I'm like, you, I'm like, you guys are going to get into this. I'm telling you. Like, do not miss the boat. And I tried like setting up these different like watch parties, these like viewing parties

at like different bars they used to host trivia at. And the first one that I actually like convinced. the owner to do was UFC 200 and i was like you're going to get john jones versus daniel cormier man like this is happening and then he's off the card and we get nunez versus tate is the new main event he's like i remember i remember i brought john howard down when he was still fighting for the ufc he came in and like met people and like people knew who he was um and i remember shout up to doomsday and i remember the owner of the bar like that night was like you son of a bitch you cost me a whole bunch of buddy

because no one came because no one because just john jodes is out of the fight and i remember just like oh damn it jones but then we did it again for ufc 205 and he's like okay okay even my dad came to that one even my dad was like this is awesome i get what you've been saying all these years you were right i had a great time so yeah 2016 will hold a special place in my heart for a lot of that but i got to tell you i cannot effing wait for the espn error to be over the espn app is Crash. It's so bad. I cannot wait to, I cannot wait to cancel that whole entire subscription. I tried to the other day. But then they're like, we'll give it to you for like $3.99 for the next three months. I was like, fine. Three 99. Take it. Take it. You can watch some Bruins games. It's fine. It's so bizarre because, you know, I'm in Canada. So I'm in this alternate world where I've never had to deal with ESPN plus. We don't have ESPN. So like I've just, we have fight pass, which some prelims around there. And then we have it on our cable. So. I've seen people like complain about this for years and I'm like I guess I dodged that

bullet and I'm sure people in the chat from other countries you also can agree they just never had to deal with this this ESPN plus streaming nightmare what happened with the Duncan McKinney re-bedding so you know once in a while on these cards we we get word from people on Twitter about some significant lion movement in a pretty quick amount of time Chris Dunkett This is from a tweet from Uncle Weezy Quote Chris Duncan's money line

Has gone from minus 190 earlier in the week to minus 110 now A ton of money coming in on Terrence McKinney Unusually a large move For a money line on way and day Wonder what's going on there I don't know Because I don't know anything about this

But I think as of right now Let me just take a look at Fan Duel And see if like it has moved dramatically Since I last look at it Like if we see Chris Duncan As like a plus 200 tomorrow We have a problem We probably have a problem on our hands.

I would say call the fight off is what I would go that far. It's like you see you may want to step in now and just say, uh, Fanduil's got Dunkin as mine as a minus 122 favorite. So yeah, obviously that line has moved a bunch, but Terence McKinney is also one of those dudes that like people love and they probably saw him media day and was like, oh, he's fighting on this car. That's a dude like always finishes people or gets in like crazy ass fights. But we'll see.

We'll take a look at it tomorrow. By the time we do the People's Free Fight show and McKinney's like a minus 175 favorite, eh, may want to do a little something. Maybe a phone call or two needs to be made. I would say just stick with a safe thing and just parlay the under. I think no matter what, whoever you think is going to win this fight, it's going to end in under one and a half. Now of seeing this line move, I'm even more confident because if Terrence wins,

it's going to be like 45 seconds. This is what Terrence does. And Chris Duncan can finish too. I could see him either finishing first or maybe making, people sweat a little and early in the second but yeah if you're going to bet on that one i don't know man guys let's look a little fishy right now it's like a fish right maybe just stay away other than uh as far as for picking a winner and just go with the uh go with the round round wager yeah we're going uh wow it's crazy yeah uh what's the i would i'm trying to see

what the uh let me look at this real quick i want to see the over under is on that fight because that's like where you bet at all time uh under one and a half is minus 375 yeah obviously like i said that's that's a part that's a that's a part that's a part that's a part yeah you don't bet that's straight what's the point would you bet that straight yeah don't bet on uh mic and a k how will you remember henry sehudo what moments do you remember the most try to think outside the box as opposed to the obvious retirement uh an incredibly annoying human being i mean just i'm so sorry i'm so sorry All right. Henry, if you're out there, obviously, as a competitor, like, one of the, I think one of the greatest combat sports athletes ever, it doesn't need to be reiterated too many times. But, like, I do think he did, he took so many missteps that could have made him, like, truly one of the most beloved fighters in American history. I think you're talking about a guy who represented the country, the Olympics, always great. Was at one point the youngest, the youngest person to ever win a gold medal in wrestling. So his story going into, and May was already inspirational. And then, but, you know, made it to the UFC pretty quickly.

I think everyone knew, like everyone said, for sure, this guy has all the tools to be a champion. And he showed it. There was some lumps early on, obviously, some issues with making weight. That was a problem. And, you know, he needed to round out his game like anyone, right? The striking wasn't what it is now.

You know, the striking was, he was certainly very advanced for his age, but it wasn't where it was now. He eventually becomes a complete fighter. He becomes a champion, a flyweight. Wins a, you know, fairly controversial over Demetius, win over Demetius Johnson, the greatest flywood of all time. But, hey, a decision is a decision, right? I don't agree with it.

I thought DJ won that fight. It doesn't matter what I think. Two judges said Henry Sehudo won that fight. He becomes a flyway champion. Beasts Tijal Shah later becomes the band-away champion. It's just the retirement, Mike, you have, you have, guys, listen to Mike. Google, Mike Heck and Suhudo, if you want to hear his thoughts, I go on his Tudu's first retirement, which he could, I think you consider one of the worst.

It is the worst retirements. It is the worst retirement in the history of any known sporting entity is the worst retirement of all. It was the worst time ever. It was so bad. he played the uh he kind of played there's so many parts for that are bad one of them was like the clearly like he was leaving because he wasn't getting paid enough money and he was he seemed to think he had leveraged like oh but you know the door's open for your return uh if that cat if that checkbook

ever opens up never opened up stayed coffin shut uh so henry thank you for your contributions goodbye and like he lost so many years of his prime because of that and listen i i hope he spent that time off like happy i know he started a family like great i hope he has no regrets about um you know, his first retirement, because I'm sure he had did many great things during that in his personal life and professionally, like, business-wise, in that time off. But from a fan perspective, there was so many more fights he had. There was so much more resume building he had to do. And he, for sure, could have closed his crew out as one of the five best NBA fighters

all time. He was that good. He was that good. And he just really walked away too early. And then expected everyone, you know, one, be begging for him to come back. And two, to view what he had done already as placing him among the, the greats and it just doesn't work that way there's there's a longevity element to it and he fell so short of that longevity element unfortunately um and then the comeback has just been really

tough to watch despite a really great performance against al jamee sterling but lost a loss right i said a win is a win loss so yeah a little a little disappointing in some ways which is crazy when we're talking about two division champion olympic old medalist and a future UFC Hall of famer but it's kind of kind of how uh how i view it it was so bad like it's just so sorry i brought it up mike i'm really sorry i brought it up Because as Jed beautifully pointed out on BTL yesterday, he beat Dominic Cruz in that fight, who hadn't fought in four years. He was out for four years. And he was coming off a loss. Like that was the wind you decided was like, I'm at the peak of my powers.

I'm done. And you know what's funny? He would have fought Peirder Yan next. And if he had beat Peirder Yan in that next fight, then he could have done it. He could have done it and may have gotten what he wanted. but he did it on that day where the UFC is like trying to like change their entire business we're trying to keep this thing train rolling while everybody stopped and he tried to make it about himself and Dana showed up at the press conference it was like all right cool pureion's

going to fight for the band of white title next against somebody else and I thought it was like the just most ridiculous thing ever and here and and I would have forgiven a lot of that too AK if he just shut up if he just didn't go on Twitter every week after a fly or abandam weight fight and said, I would beat that guy, I might come back. And then three years later, like still didn't. And then finally did after all this time.

And at that point, like, he had annoyed people so much that, like, no one wanted him back. Like, no one asked for him to come back. And it's so, and it's too bad, too, because he literally could just fought one more time after UFC 249.

And he probably would have had, I'm not going to say, like, a ton of leverage. But I bet the UFC would have, like, taken about to dinner on the following Monday and said like let's talk about this as opposed to all right cool pierre on versus the next guy is the next fight we're making we're not even going to like throw henry a goodbye party or anything we're just going to like kick his ass out the door and lock it behind us

like it was just it was this unbelievable and then the annoying stuff on twitter of like trying to come back and maybe i'll come back maybe i won't and it's just so bad and i thought i think he's been great this week honestly i think he's been he's been really great this week and if you watch his like media days and stuff like you you remember like why we always like respected him because he's so deep and he's so analytical on the media day stuff he's so well thought about like well thought out so well spoken a lot of times like he reflects on things so well and then he shows a bit of press conference he's just like ugh but even like the press conference yesterday he was fine like i don't know and jed wrote a mailbag

column and like he laid it out perfectly i think it's not going to be viewed as his career like we look back on it it's not going to be viewed it's not going to age gracefully you know even regardless of the accolades because we can't we can't not think about the first retirement we can't not think about that like that's such a big part of the story and yeah i mean obviously I don't know top 75 like greatest fighters ever maybe less

you can go higher than that but at top 75 is really good I know but I mean considering his accolades two division chip you know all this stuff so the wins he's had I mean you gotta count the DJ win

right whether controversial or not I still don't think it was a robbery like I think there's an argument for I haven't watched that fight in a while I think there's an argument for Henry I definitely scored it for a DJ in the moment I'll never forget that but it's got good quality of wins

top 40 I think top 30 wow okay I'm not arguing against it by the way I'm just I'm kind of curious how like people would would rate him overall it's just such a shame because in addition to the retirement like that he chose to go

the persona he chose to embrace and it's not just him it's not his fault this is a hate you know don't hate the player hate the game situation right the UFC and whatever combat sports I guess in general see you know this past two 20 years seems to reward crap talking and have having a personality that whether it's good or bad, gets people talking.

And so he chose to go the other way. He chose to be somewhat heelish and be annoying. And that's fine. And maybe that did help him, you know, gain some more notoriety. I understand that's very important. You're building a brand. But then at the end of the day, you have to accept that that's part of your legacy. Right?

Oh, Jed. Oh, God. Jed coming in. Top 50 and closer to 50 than 10. Gosh, darn it. But again, the fact that we're having this conversation says so much about how we mishandled his career. And again, the persona is, it shouldn't have so much to do with it, but it does. It does. And he chose that, guys. He chose, I'm the king of cringe. I'm going to,

like you said, I'm going to use my social media and troll all these people and throw out all these childish insults and blah, blah, blah, say all this stupid stuff. And again, if that worked for you in the moment and made you popular, great. But that is now part of your legacy. That is always, you do not get to rewrite your legacy in the future and say, oh, well, I only did it because of this. Really, I, my goal, you know, I want to represent the sport, blah, blah. It's like, no, you put your brand and you put your, you know, whatever trolling behavior over the sport that's okay but you have to accept that you have to accept that that is and that is you that's what you wanted us to perceive in the moment that is how we will perceive

it for the rest of time and again you don't need to love you in this business but if we're talking about all-time greats uh we got a factor these things so i'm i'm higher than you guys are apparently top 30 um but so much was left on the table boy so much was left on the table do you like this do you like this matchmaking i love it only because i just would never never thought of it i would never think to match them up i think no assuming Peyton doesn't just kill him which i'm very i find that i don't i think henry has a really good chance to win he's we just we've said this about a number of matches in this card but we said there's a bentoja and van like there's the grown man strength there's the experience he

has so he has so he has added his wrestling career he has like 50 times the experience of paid talbot which is i want to fight x amount of years didn't look amazing in the song fight for sure if you go watch the song fight there's a lot to look at there and be like imagine if this but someone who's maybe like faster than song maybe someone who can hit harder than song you know then you're really word for henry but the skill gap on paper should be enormous here it should be enormous um but again this is why you fight the fights that's why i find it so interesting like i think they you know they they're thinking exactly what we're thinking is this guy final fight one foot out the door just ready to get hit and just curl up in a ball or

did he take this matchup because he knows like i'm getting this kid way before patent is like you know peak bait and talbot and what a nice win to go out on to say i beat a guy who could be a future you know top 10 guy future total contender like the more i think of it i'm like who else could it be like loke dog i think might have been like an interesting one because he's starting to like get over david martinez might have been a nice one yeah there because he's on the come up like it has to be like a young up-and-comer and i and yeah like Peyton's obviously a guy they they they see something in no doubt about it but Peyton also like just lost a very like similar style fight to hyoni barcelos literally 11 months ago and suhudo is probably

more effective at that aspect of fighting than hyoni is even though hyoni that loss is aging tremendously well every day for peyton talbot so it is interesting a pain just goes out and clover suhudo it's so big like that's such a big moment for him yeah and one thing i will give henry a lot of credit over uh for is something and someone mentioned in the comments, and I'll mention it here when I spoke to Peyton Talbot, Henry has gone out of his way to help other fighters, like, advise them on, hey, this is what you need to look for, don't want people screw you over, this is what you should do, this is what you, you know, if you're smart, you should do this.

He's trying to advise, like, the younger generation of fighter of, like, don't make the mistakes I made. And I think we give them a little bit, you know, a little tip of the cap for that, you know? but I hope I hope that if this retirement sticks and I think it's going to because I think even he's been saying

like Dana will probably just cut me anyways so this is it I hope he just like leaves gracefully and does not do what he did last time where like every time a fight happens at Banda boy he's like I could have beat Marab I could still beat him

I can beat that dude I just I can't stand that shit and hopefully that doesn't happen anymore so do you think he does real american freestyle jose said it was asked during this week and he doesn't sound like super but i think it's because he's maybe not i maybe he hasn't kept an eye on it because i think their real american freestyle is doing some interesting stuff with the way they use ufc veterans well active uc i'm not i'm not i say veterans active uc fighters um some veterans coming up we just saw um what uh covey and uh oh he's an active fighter colby and luke rocould yeah uh isn't he not

at least once right is he not a natural fit for that Yeah. I think you'd be fine for that. Um, sure. I think he does it. Jose said it probably not. I can see him being more like a, uh, I can see him like investing in it and like being a comment on the promotional side. God, do not let him commentate. Are you kidding me? Have you seen some of the names that he would try to have to try to pronounce if we not learn anything from the Eagle FC days? That was the worst it was the worst commentator in the history of sports. It was it was. It was. It was. It was. It was. so we watch just to like make a drinking game out of it essentially he can he can pronounce uh who's the guy belal mohamma's fighting he can't a david car he can pronounce well he can pronounce some of the u s some of the m you know some of the ufc guys well no i don't know maybe not i'll listen at least he's got a podcast you know he oh god oh no we can't yeah that's that's that's that's gonna be tough scenes that podcast is uh has is not doing kamar usman any I can tell you that right now.

I don't know, you mean, Mike. He's about to fight for the Walter Wight Tau, so I think it's doing some incredible favors. Hold on one second. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna slack you. I'm gonna slack you this name and I want you to grade. I want you to grade how well Henry Suhudo would do pronouncing this. I'll just say it.

He would, oh, this is, uh, this is, uh, Mahmoud Kabit. Mahmahabab. Yeah, no, but this is how he would say. This is Mahmoud Mahmoud Qabababab Khadzimamadu. Oh, my God. Yeah, Mahmoud Kabib, Katsimamadu, yeah. Wow.

That's an RF guy? Yeah. Jeez, Louise. That's... Olympan Krasler. Mohamed Katsi Mahmahmahmada. Okay. Yeah, that's a hard one, though.

I mean, anyone of us would struggle with that, but that would be really fun. I would pay, I'd pay pay pay-per-view prices. That's why they got to do it, Mike. I'd pay pay-per-view prices to see him doing that. No, but in all, in all seriousness, like, you know, we'll see what, we'll see what happens. I'm curiously how the UFC kind of handles it today as well. Or tomorrow. Will they, will you get the tribute video and all that?

You have to. I think you have, I mean, if you give it, if you give it to like Carlos Sparza and, like, Michelle Watterson, I think you have to give it to Henry's here at all. Those are so good. You have to, you have to. Win or lose, win or lose. But he better walk away. I think Jose said,

Dana will burn his gloves if they give him a video, and he would burn the gloves in the cage. If he pulls a Jordan Belfort, I'm not, I've been leaving. I'm not leaving. You could see him doing it. If he wins, there's a very good chance. He cuts some sort of promo like that.

I just know it. Chad points out. They gave one to Anthony Smith. They did. The legend. Well deserved. The legend. all right i think i think i've talked about this card enough uh by the way uh i know lazy bed

will appreciate this and others as well uh as easy a z ray videos points out uh karate combat we will be uh jett and i will be we'll be covering said karate combat tonight so we'll be on kc duty uh so stick with us at mayfinding dot com it's a great website uh and we'll be all over it mike i am legitimately interested in sam alvey versus robell like i know everyone's just predicting rebella's to do what he's been doing in casey and win the fight in seven seconds um but you know me i don't know like sam's been around man like i feel like sam i don't know he's gonna win i think he can survive evil fellas rush at least early on no there's takedowns in casey right isn't there aren't there like a limited takedowns you slam people i don't think so

no or there's other there's definitely slam no i mean they've had like grappling matches but I don't know if it's like full-on-M-M-A. I've already kind of had some, like, limited. I swear there's some of it. Not that it will matter because, I mean, Ravels could probably a little bigger than him, so it's going to be very difficult to imagine doing anything. I'm just saying.

I'll take over seven and a half time. Wow. I think Rebellis touches him one time. It's over. I mean, that's how he's been in Casey, man. You could watch it. You guys want to see Rabell's. I'm sure someone's done a super cut out there.

The video is about 18 seconds long of his kid, all his karate combat, yeah. Well, follow along. We'll have you covered. People's Free Fight Show 5.15 p.m. Eastern tomorrow. Join me. We'll get ready for UFC 323 watch party tomorrow night.

It's going to be a good time, everybody. For a.k. I am Mike Heck. Bye, bye. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Support for this show comes from Odu. Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? Introducing Odu, it's the only business software you'll ever need.

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