MMA Fighting - UFC Fight Island 7: Holloway vs. Kattar Post-Fight Show ft. Laura Sanko

Episode Date: January 17, 2021

With UFC Fight Island 7 in the books, MMA Fighting’s Mike Heck and E. Casey Leydon are joined by special guest Laura Sanko to break down the top storylines from the UFC’s first event of 2021, including Max Holloway’s dominant decision win over Calvin Kattar in the main event.  Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow E. Casey Leydon: @ekc Follow Laura Sanko: @laura_sanko Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. All right, we are live, ladies and gentlemen. This is the UFC Fight Island 7 Holloway versus Cater Post Fight Show here on the animefighting.com YouTube channel. I am Mike Keck. We have lots to discuss. We're going to give you guys and gals who are watching right now the opportunity to lead the way, so to speak, ask all the questions.

And myself, Casey Leiden, and our very special guest, Laura Sanko, who is here, We're going to be answering all your questions. Laura, great to have you here. How are you? It's good to be here. I'm excited. Man, I'm quite had me on the edge of my seat the entire time. Incredible night. I'm excited to get into the questions about it. There you go. Before we get into the questions and get into what happened this afternoon, kudos to you for your commentary role last night. You did a phenomenal job. LFA, you and Alan Joban did an incredible job. What was that like for you? I know it was something that, you know, you didn't think was going to happen probably like four or five days beforehand.

But you stepped in. You did phenomenal. How was it for you? Yeah, I didn't think it was going to happen 24 hours beforehand. I got that call super simply. It was amazing. You know, as many people or anybody who follows me on social media knows, that's kind of, that's my dream. That's my goal to eventually be able to do that on the biggest day possible.

So to be able to do that for the LFA. was really exciting and I'll be honest, you know, I've obviously called fights for Invicta a number of times now, but that's like a safe place for me, right? That's my home and I feel like I have a good rapport with the fans there. So it's not as, you don't feel like you're putting yourself out there quite as much, but they go to a new organization that's obviously less familiar with me and to be calling men's fights finally, right? It was pretty cool and I felt like Alan and I really had a stride and it was just an awesome experience Yes, you did a great job, and hopefully we could see more of that. But let's get to the questions, Casey, because we've been talking about this for a while while we were waiting for Dana White to get up there.

So there's a lot that came out of this afternoon's historic broadcast for the UFC on ABC. So let's hear what the peeps have to say about this. And Scott, great, agreed. Great broadcast for LFA. You and Alan were fantastic. There you go. All right, here we go. Questions?

We had some good fights to talk about that, so that definitely helps. We had a ton of finishes. So really, the kudos to the fighters for sure. Yeah, absolutely. So, wait, were you in the, like, by the cage doing color commentary? Yeah, yeah. I was doing color commentary right alongside Al Jaban. They had a three-person booth for the first time.

So it was really cool. That's awesome. Yeah, just to be able to get that flow and kind of show, you know, the world does not melt when a woman discusses a man fighting. Yeah. No, congratulations, Sarah. I think, I mean, Sarah, I'm right, Laura. Yeah, I don't know why it's taking so long to have a lady give color commentary to men fighting.

It's, I thought, it's the weirdest thing, but I'm happy for it. That's exciting. You're great, you know, so. Thank you. All right. these UFC fights. Let's see. Charles Strello,

Lorisanko, is Max Holloway officially the greatest featherweight in UFC history after his performance against Calvin Cater? I think you have to give him that. I think he had a reason to be called that before this. You know, the way that he obviously would have said it was

Josie Alta before that, right? But the way that he was able to handle Jose Alta on two occasions, And then just I think what I was thinking about tonight was, and he mentioned a couple times in the first fight press conference, his journey to that first title shot is unparalleled, I think, at least in that division. That guy has earned every iota of success that he's had. And it's interesting to call someone the greatest of all time after dropping fights to the champ, right? but given his route up to the title, given his title reign, unless Alex Wolkenovsky is able to hang on to that title for an longer period, which is possible. He might go on and do that.

But right now, yeah, I'm comfortable saying that Max is always the best brother with. What do you think, Casey? I don't think we ever got your take on this. We know our colleague, Jen Michoud's take on this. He thinks it's Jose Aldo all day. I can see the argument. Laura makes a great point. when you have two guys who are vying for that spot and one guy beats the other guy twice,

you know, I can understand why some people would say Max Holloway, but I could also understand why some folks would say Jose Aldo, because people look at title defenses like it's everything as opposed to other stuff. Where would you put Max in there? Is he number one? Is he 1B? Is he number two? Where do you put him?

I give it a 1A, 1B type thing of him and Otto, essentially. I mean, now, if Aldo would have just, you know, lost his title fights to Max and kind of, you know, you know, generally just kind of not faded away into obscurity, but, you know, all of a sudden he's a number five featherweight. All of a sudden, he's number 10 featherweight, you know, like that. But him somehow, like, against all logic, went down a weight class. And he's a top, at worst, a top five bantam weight right now. So that kind of changes things a bit in terms of pound for pound, just great fighter. So all those, like, career is kind of, it's hard, it's hard because they're kind of doing two different things right now. But Yeah, but Suggesting Max Holloway is Anything worse

than the second Best Feather Way ever is ridiculous It's either him or Otto right now That's about it, yeah I agree Yeah, it's absurd To put him outside of the top two

I would agree at that, so And I know, I don't want to get into this whole cross-promotion thing But man, I wish we had Pit Bull somehow Oh, I know Yeah, just to throw him in there You know, it's like

all these promoters and don't let them fight. This is like, oh, yeah, you know, you know what I'm saying. But it's so good to the ice card. Sorry.

Maybe if we get the, maybe if we get MMA in the Olympics, then we all have these weird dreams come true where people from other pronotions fight each other. I don't know. I like it. Thank you, Charles.

Appreciate the question. I have to be amateur. What am I talking about? You know, maybe there'll be like a, I was going to say, World Series of fighting, but never mind.

Forget, forget that I'm even saying it. No. I'm not even here. Sorry, I lost my comment. I had a comment I wanted to read. All these comments are coming in too fast. All right, all right, here we go. All right, I am not going to answer this question

because me and AK will talk about that on onto the next one. What is next for Calvin Cater? Laura, I'll ask you that question. Mind seeing him. Maybe a rematch was, it was a beat that beat him, right? in most recently.

In November of 2019, yep. Yeah, I wouldn't mind seeing them run it back. You know, man, it's so hard, like, to, right after these fights to immediately, I understand Dana's like constant, like, stop trying to make a matchmake on the night of fights. But that is, you know, it's the next logical question. I wouldn't mind seeing a rematch there.

I mean, we've got everybody kind of a little bit tied up. I'm trying to remember who else, obviously, The announced tonight that Alex and Ortega, yeah, it might be an interesting fight, although I think he might be out for a little bit here. I don't know. I don't know. What do you think, Casey? Taking away any actual damage he took because, I mean, we probably talked about it later how much damage Cater took tonight.

Because that's a whole other issue that I think has probably has a fighter and just someone who cares about the safety of fighters. That was a lot of damage that Calvin Cater took tonight. but assuming everything's he has a little headache he's good in the morning um man what's up with Josh Emmett is he is he how long is he injured for

or he's been out for a while I mean he tore like every this is why I need to have my Google yeah it's you know it's so funny we watch all these fights and you tell me name a fighter I'm like I can't name a single fighter I don't know of any I don't know just

um Emmett had a lot of injury he's coming out of that chain burgos by like torres ACL MCL a whole bunch of stuff so I would say like best case scenario we see him in the summertime yeah you know what is it chance on young chance on junk that's also yeah he's just yeah he's coming off a loss to Ortega and um recently um so he lost that's right yeah so I could see I could see a zombie cater fight that'd be pretty cool I Honestly, when I was watching, when I was watching this, because Ortega had such a superlative performance and Max had such a superlative performance, I kept thinking, man, I would not hate a, and I realize he's pretty books, I'm just, you know, talking about my weird end here, but I wouldn't hate seeing that fight again either because I feel like, I don't know, I felt like Ortega was a completely different fighter. Now Max just upped the level yet again, but I wouldn't hate that rematch. At some point, I realize it's not, you know, coming down the right way. Yeah. I think for Kate, excuse me,

I think McCater, he just needs them. I would, I would think at least three months out of the gym after a beating like that. And, you know,

and by that time, rose around, things change. Volcanowski, Ortego had already happened by then, or around that time. About the exact amount that's scheduled for March sometime,

right? March, March 27th. March 27th. Yeah. So, yeah, I think,

I think, He just needs him rest in. I think about three months. We'll probably throw his name back out there and see how we see what's going on. But man, good thing. I'm happy he has an extra 50K though. That's going to be somewhat nice.

Jeremiah likes the idea of Arnold Allen. I don't dislike that idea at all. That would be a lot of fun. Arnold Allen's been trying to get a big fight for a while. And you know Calvin Kater, if they offered him Arnold Allen or Casey Liden or anybody outside of the top 15, he's taking it.

He's putting his end of paper. It doesn't matter who it is. fighting him. So I think he's got a lot of options and it's good when you have a guy like that. But hopefully he can take some time and heal up. But he's the toughest man in the world, like after that. I just don't know how he stayed on his feet. Like it's one thing staying in the fight, but it's another thing like staying on his feet that entire time. I think Matt always said, I had him had him doing the Mr. Robot during the post-fight press conference at different times. So God, what a performance and caters all-time tough for sure.

I want to say real quick, when Max was talking about, you know, giving that beating the cater, how he just wouldn't go down. And Max was thinking, man, I am so tired. I think, man, Max has a great poker face because he never looks tired in there. He never looks tired. I thought the exact same thing. I don't get that. Like, after, like, I hit Mitz for like 30 seconds, I'm like, I mean, I'm still hitting it, but I can't hide that tired. And I see these guys like Max who are like inside their hearts going like 180 a minute, you know, and they're just dying inside.

but outside, they're barely sweating. They're just, you know, pa, pa, pa. I don't, I don't get it. Yeah. His pace, his pace didn't take out. I mean, even the guys who come out and, guys we refer to as volume punchers, Tony Ferguson, great example.

Tony Ferguson is a great volume puncher. But Tony, you know, like most normal human beings, slows down a little bit in those later rounds. And just to see Max do what he did, It was just, man, that guy, I don't know how he trains. I don't know how he does what he does without having any sparring. It's just, it's crazy. Yeah, that's when we talk about Max and his fighting abilities, like, it defies kind of basic fight logic a lot of times.

Do you think so, Sarah? Yeah. I don't know what came. Yeah. Yeah, it just doesn't make, it doesn't make. It's good answer to any name case. Yeah. I don't know what I'm calling Sarah Sanko.

Seriously. I'm just like, I'm just like, my alter ego. I'm like drunk on fighting right now. Same. No, yeah, it does defy logic. I think a lot of the things that he did in this fight tonight defy logic, because it's one thing, is my signal okay now? Like, am I connecting okay now?

You know, your audio's fine, so don't worry if you're going choppy. As long as we're hearing you find it. All right. It's weird because my signal says I'm like full strength, so I'm not sure with the issues. but what really hit me when I was thinking about and just digesting the fight. One thing, I mean, we could be sitting here talking about this superlative performance

just on the volume and pace alone. But there are so many other layers that we could also be talking about, you know, if we just talked about his creativity, so to have the creativity, the variety of weapons, the viciousness, the showmanship all within that context of an absolutely insane pace, sustained insane pace.

You just don't see that. Like it's one thing to be creative when you're throwing a couple of shots at a time. And like you can kind of sit there and think like, oh, I'm going to throw this 360 kick and then I'm going to do something really cool on the end of it. You've got time to digest it, set it up, go execute it. And then there's kind of that reset moment. Max never has a reset moment. And I think it's really what makes a lot of his opponents fall apart because then that means they never have a reset moment either.

And I'm telling you, you can't find training partners to replicate that. You can't, you don't get that in the gym unless you're training with Max Holloway. I just can't imagine how you'd ever prepare for that level of creativity within that pace is just second to none. Plus his defense and the durability because Calvin hit him with some big shots. Big shots. That uppercut, a couple of uppercuts landed super clean and Max just ate him like a turkey sandwich. Like it was nothing. Yes.

It's amazing. It really is. And I mean, we all know Max is tough. It's like every time I watch the fight, I'm just reminded of how tough he is because you're, exactly right, Mike, that uppercut, that's the one that really stuck in my head. And I think I tweeted out back at that point in the fight, like, you know, Holloway performance, but Kater having some moments and people are like, oh, this is a massacre. It was, but like, I'm telling you, Kater had bad intentions on some of those shots. And he was connecting with some of those big shots. And that guy

has got so much power in his hands, which is what, even though it was just an incredible one-sided dominant performance with a guy like Calvin Cater and power like that and accuracy like that, I was still on the edge of my seat all the way to the bell, to be honest with you, because you just never know. And Calvin, Calvin could have pulled it off, but I hope we end up having a little bit of discussion about, you know, thoughts on should the fight have been stopped, all that type of stuff, because it's an interesting one. And it's one that has really evolved for me personally as, you know, I'm tight with Anthony Smith and like I've seen some of these other fights where we just end up having that discussion afterwards, you know, and I think it's one

that needs to be had because it keeps it in the forefront of people's minds. I'm not saying it should happen tonight, but it's worth discussing, right? Absolutely. Yeah. And yeah, Casey and I we're talking about this. And I think it comes on the heels of our colleague Steve Morocco's article about Spencer Fisher that we dropped earlier this week. That is just absolutely unbelievable. If you haven't picked it out, highly recommend you do so. Yeah, I think it broke everybody's heart. But there's one thing that was so fascinating about Calvin Cater because I saw everybody on Twitter saying, listen, Tyson and the team, they need to think about stopping this fight. End of the fourth round after eating 81 significant strikes. Calvin Cater is sitting there with his back

against the cage, a bloody mess, horn blows, Cater just smiles at Max Holloway and says, good stuff, man, gives him like a high five and walks back to the corner. And Tyson Chartier is asking him all these questions and giving him advice. And Calvin's answering him clear as a bell. There's like nothing concerning. Like if you just turn the television on and saw that exchange between Tyson Chartier and Calvin Cater, you would have never thought he got hit 81 times 30 seconds ago. You know what I mean?

Yeah. I'll just see what Max looked like at the post-press conference. It looks like Max lost the fight just by the bruising on his face. But, like, that's the guy that landed like 2,000 strikes, which means that Calvin hit him with, you know, at least hit him with a significant amount of strikes. And I don't get it, dude. I don't get it. It's a wild sport.

They're both just next-level humans, that's for sure. Yeah. Do you think, go, I'm sorry. Heart of hearts, right? Heart of hearts, Laura, do you think they should have stopped it earlier? No, I don't, but I do think, I understand and I think it's valid, and I actually think it's important. I'll go beyond balance. I think it's important that it was at least the topic was broached.

That's the thing, right? Like, at some point, I remember when Duke Griffith stopped the fight for Anthony Pettus. You know, that's the one that really sticks out. I know there are other examples I can think of, but I do think the most important stride that can be, made is to make it less or more socially acceptable to where if you get your fight stopped, you know, you're not automatically a pussy and you're not thinking about firing your coaches because how you dare you do that. You know, I had long, long, long conversations with both Anthony Smith and his corners after that fight. And it was fascinating because Anthony, Anthony's old school, right?

Like he was legitimately angry that that topic even came up. And he was honestly mad at his corners for, I guess, being sensitive to the feedback that they got after the fight. Mark and James were not loving that conversation, understandably. And Anthony's like, I don't know what the problem is, you know, get over it. so people didn't like what you guys, you know, it's fascinating to hear the mindset of someone who, you know, he said, he said, I've had this conversation with Mark where like, I will never, I will never train with you again if you ever stop a fight. I just, it will, it will break my, my trust in you, right? And I do think that ultimately it's the referee's job to keep the

fighter safe. That's the biggest thing. That is, that is what their job is. And the coach's job is to help the fighter figure out a way to win. Now, secondary to that, fighter safety is part of a coach's job, but it's not his primary job. It's the referee's primary job. So I think, and the ref is literally in the fight, right? Literally seeing this, hearing this. So I put a little bit more onus on them. And this goes back to just how crazy, tough cater is. As much as I wanted that fight stopped, and as soon as I'd be like, oh, if I should be stopped, then I see cater throw, just wild hook that that max has to get out of the way of it's not like he just throws the max max is now he's there you know there was an elbow like those like he's like cater's still in the fight

he's still in the moment he's not just you know blind that's what that's what that's what made it that's why i understand herbdine was in a very difficult position was that herbdine was he the main event ref yeah sorry that's what made him uh that's why it was such a difficult position and as long as calvin's head wasn't really bouncing a lot it isn't and it seemed like his his his legs only went out just momentarily in 25 minutes, maybe a couple of seconds. Body language is a big piece of it. And that's why I was actually fine that the Anthony's fight didn't could stop either. People made a big deal out of it.

But like the shots that he was taking on the ground for the most part were somewhat peppering. You know, he's on the ground. They weren't like massive shots. The fight that honestly I think has the biggest argument, at least in my mind, was the Ferguson-Gaichi fight. because Tony Tony was essentially like you could see in his face

that he was no longer he wasn't there right you know he wasn't he was making movements and he wasn't like just wobbling all over the place like he was drunk but you could see the expression

on his face he was somewhere else and he wasn't he was defending and moving but he wasn't defending in a way that we know Tony's capable of defending I would argue that Calvin

while he was getting tagged up relentlessly I kept seeing moments where he was weaving and he was putting his hands in proper position, and then he'd fire back with an elbow or, like, say, he'd fired back with a shot. To me, that's very intelligent defense. So I kept being on the cusp of having that thought, like, oh, maybe they should. And I'm like, no, oh, maybe they should.

No, he looks, no, I think he's okay. And then, as you say, like, in between rounds, Cleary is about answering questions. That's a big piece of it. So I'm not upset that it wasn't stopped. I would also point out in such a high-stakes fight for Calvin and Max, if this was just an amateur fight or a regional fight or guys or just the early fights on a prelims, I think the ref can be a little more aggressive in stopping the fight.

But I think these guys, like Calvin Cater, I think you understand this. He has earned the opportunity to get his ass kicked like that. And because it takes years to get to. that point to get your ass kicked in the main event on national TV. I know that sounds weird, but I think you know what I mean, Laura. I do. Yeah, it's like that he's earned that right to get his butt kicked. So I think, in the end of the day, I think Urbden actually did a fine job. And it was, it hurts, it kind of hurts your heart a little bit, but I think that, I think

the right decision was made by all involved. Yeah, I agree. I would agree. And by the way, I do want to say one thing. I thought Dan Hardy on the broadcast today, was awesome. Like he was, he was an A plus on the broadcast. And I thought he made such a great point in the first round. He's like, Calvin's normally a slow starter,

but you cannot let, and I thought the analogy is great. Like, if you let Max get out to too big of a lead in the first round, it is almost impossible to play catch up. And he was so right. I'm sitting there listening to this. I'm like,

I don't know. It's just one round. But as you saw that first round unfold going into the second, I even tweeted out. I'm like, all right, this round went kind of the way I expected it to, but,

Cater's a second round guy. Like once second round comes, it's like Cater's first round. But Dan Hardy was so right. He was so right, because it just got worse for Calvin after that. I wonder, too, if Calvin wasn't slightly,

taken by surprise by Max's immediate pace. Because a lot of times we see Max come out round one and be very patient, very calculated, almost like he's kind of taking it all in. I say that, and he probably still lands, you know,

four strikes a minute, which if you average out the, you have C is still pretty high rate, but it's low for him is my point. You know, he's a little bit more calculated and more patient often in that first round. And then the second round, sometimes you can see a huge flip the script. He comes out and he fights like we saw him tonight. Tonight, he came out and he had that volume and he had that pressure right from the bell. So I don't know if it was just Max feeling himself or Max feeling like he had Calvin's number,

but I wonder if Calvin didn't have half a second of going, oh whoa I was not prepared for this I was prepared to have at least a sort of patient first round where we could measure each other up and I could find my distance I could find my rhythm because literally from the first few seconds of that fight you could tell that Calvin just hadn't settled in and Max was already like in his groove and flowing out there and then it just as you say the fight got away from Calvin within the first minute of the fight yeah it's crazy it's crazy it's crazy Dan Hardy was unbelievable today. And to see him, like, standing on his feet doing the broadcast was even cooler. Like, just pacing around, like, in his little space on his feet the whole time. They need, like, a longer chord for Dan so he can, you know, have a nice length. You should be able to, yeah, just be, come on get some wireless. Get some wireless headlands.

Yeah, just, he's on the locker room watching, he's walking out with them right next to them. He's got to look in his eyes. He can see it. He's got to. He's like on top with you. Yeah, he's pushing HerbDina out of the way. Cool. I thought, yeah, I thought tonight's booth was great.

I thought, I thought Annick, D.C. and Hardy worked well together tonight. That's not a normal, that's not a normal combination, right? No, I was actually trying to think if I've ever seen Hardy and D.C. work together. And I, I can't say it's never happened, but not that I could remember. And it's a great mix because Dan has such a level of detail in his analysis that I personally really enjoy. And DC brings such great, and he does detail as well, obviously, he quite literally does detail. But he often in fights, does a great job of really painting the big picture. He brings the humor.

He brings the personality. I freaking love it whenever he said big biscuits. Yeah. My new favorite thing in the whole world, these big biscuits out here. Hey, I thought those big biscuits were fighting in the night, to be honest. Yeah, it was a fun one. That was a fun one. Well, apparently there were other fights.

the card too so we might want to i guess we'll go yes the mother fire all right here we're oh that's oh that's really small can you read that hold on oh wait oh man this i can do it i can do it i can do it i can do it i can do it sorry sorry sorry sorry yeah i know my thought is lee is lee jing yang that good of a fighter or is it a case that he got lucky versus santiago ponsonzebio ponsi took off 26 months due to a health scare we could have been talking about talking about him is the welterweight champion. So I guess the question is, Laura, was this a case of really good timing for Li Jing Liang or is he as good as we saw tonight? Oh, I think he is as good as we saw it tonight, but I do, listen, there's not a lot of a fight

that we got to see. So it's hard to kind of analyze whether Ring, what Rust really was a factor for Ponziabia or not. But I tend to think it was. He was maybe a little bit, and explosively aggressive than we've seen him in the past, but you can't take away from Lieging Leon. That was a perfectly placed punch. And, yeah, it's, it's, I always root for these comeback stories.

I'm a fan of the leech. You know, it's not like I wanted him to lose, but I always love rooting for the guy who's trying to scrape his way back. So I was, it's sad to see Ponziadnebio on the canvas like that, but I, you know, I know he'll be back. He's, he's an incredible fighter.

And as, you know, our, as Joseph Boza said, we easily could have been talking about him in that welterweight contention title. He was on a heck of a streak and just unfortunate circumstances. Kept him away for a really long time. But I have no doubt he'll be back and doing big things quickly enough. Casey, we don't like to talk. I mean, sometimes you do. Us positive thinkers like to do this.

But moral victories are hard to find in mixed martial arts, aren't they? And I feel like Ponsonibio, in our own Gearmei Cruz, wrote an incredible story from a conversation he had with Santiago Ponsonibio heading into the fight. But him just getting back and looking as good as he did, the shape he was in. I mean, this is a guy after losing all that weight was actually thinking about dropping a 155 because he lost so much muscle mass due to the illnesses. So just the fact that he got back in here and was on this historic card, although it sucks that he lost, he got finished in the first round. Is that like, can you take at least that with you? Is that a moral victory? I do as a fan.

I don't think he's going to. Right, right, right. You know, it's kind of like Walt Harris, you know, that was just Walt making the walk when he did in back in May, you know, those first few fights back was, oh, my God, talk about emotionally, you know. And then that's a, you want the story to end a certain way, right? You want this fairy tale ending for Walt, given everything that he had been through. So you're right.

As a fan, I'm just, I'm happy that they were able to get back to the point where they could even enter the octagon. But as fighters, entering the octagon is not what we're here for. It's not what we're there for, you know, and you never, I don't know, I don't think fighters take moral victories very often. But as a fan, I see it. It was a crappy loss for Ponsenibio, but I don't think it was the worst loss when he looks back on it. because it wasn't like he was dominated 15 minutes. I mean, that punch, that punch honestly landed. Like, he was, I think it was that left hook and he had his arm up.

And it just kind of either came around, it came around his guard. But it just hit that perfect spot right in the tip of the chin. Right on the tip of the chin. Like if that hits on the cheek, on the forehead, it hurts. You know, but it doesn't take very much on right on that tip of the chin. So it's just one of the, I don't want to call it lucky shot because there's no such thing at this level. a lucky punch, a lucky punch. But yeah, it was a perfect punch.

It was a perfect punch. Yeah. One shot, yeah. So. And again, he didn't go out cold, Ponzien, but was that right? Yeah, Ponzi Am, was it still, was he arguing the stoppage? A little bit, yeah. A little bit, yeah.

Yeah. So, um, it was a big stoppage. No, it was fine, stoppage, but yeah. All right. And again, another great point, Dan Hardy made, and I didn't even realize this, Li Jing Liang is massive. He is a huge welterweight. Dan Hart is like, look at the legs on this guy.

And I was like, oh, I didn't even notice that his legs are bigger than just massive. This is going to sound weird, but his cranium is gigantic. Like he has a giant head. Now, it fixes his body. I'm not saying he's like some really disproportionate person, but like he's just a big guy. Very big. Wait, Mike, how many fights is, does the league have in the UFC? We talked about this on the preview show.

something crazy. He's a lot. He's a lot. Like 16 fights or something. Like I'm like, I'm like, holy moly. Yeah, it's like, I think we said for, by far he has the most fights in the UFC for any Chinese fighter easily.

Not even close. So he is a very experienced fighter who, who knows. It just took him a while to hit that prime, to get in his stride. Like he just got to the UFC when he was a good, no, a decent fighter. Now he's a good fighter. Now he's on his way to becoming kind of, that great fighter.

Can he be in the elite? You know, so, you know, he took a giant step out, took a giant step tonight. Yeah. For sure. As I said on the preview show, and I don't know if we're going to see this again, any,

anytime Li Jing Liang enters a fight as a massive underdog, take a shot on him because he always comes through. Wes S, what is next for Carlos Condit? UFC Bellator PFL, or is this the end of the road for the natural-born killer? Yes, as he stated on his media day, this is the last fight of his UFC contract, so we will see what happens. But Casey, let me get your take on this, my friend.

Do you see Carlos Cond had said on his post-fights scrum, he hopes to resign with the UFC at some point, not really sure what the price tag is, but he wants to come back? He's got two wins in a row. Do you think his next fight will be inside the octagon, or will it be somewhere else? Well, it's not the end of the road, that's for sure.

There's still a lot of fight left in him. I was privileged enough for Carlos's, when he fought Court McGee, I was in Albuquerque at the time. So I got to watch him train and hit pads and just, dude, watching Carlos Condit hit pads for five or six rounds is, oh, it's beautiful. It's just, you know, Laura, like some guys are good strikers, but some people on the pads are just like, oh, wow. It's like music. Yeah, yeah, it just has a, and then, of course, I had to hit pads right after. that and it was just embarrassing but let's not talk about that but um no um i as much as i love um what he got uh competition and i want i want to see fighters

fight everywhere and you know finding different promotions i think caris con is a ufc fighter and i just i hope i hope he can come to terms and get the proper you know whatever he wants to get paid i hope him and dana can come to a agreement and um i like actually i would like to i would like for him to saying the UFC. And yeah, I like to finish his career in the UFC. And I still think he has a good run still left in him. I agree. I thought he looked great tonight. You know, I thought that the analysis was spot on. I've never seen him wrestle with that much flow, right? Where he was just, you know, he's hitting the switch and he was, you know, getting the reversals. And he looked, he looked really confident in his wrestling. He's always been a well-rounded fighter.

but the wrestling in particular really seemed on point tonight. And it was a big factor in this fight. And in terms of what's next for him, I mean, I think Dan Hardy threw a couple names out there. Of course, the one I'm going to vote for is James Krause, because I think that that would be a super fun fight.

You know, even though they're of slightly different generations, they're not that far apart in terms of generations. And I like, you know, like the fight tonight. That's the type of fight I like. I want to see the fight that we were wanting to see forever. I want to see Carlos fight other guys from that generation of fighters. And while James is just a little bit younger than that, you know, he's right there.

I mind seeing him fight Dan Hardy, to be honest with you. I don't know if Dan is still hot for a comeback because he's so good in this broadcasting career. But if Dan makes it comeback, that would be a really fun rematch. And I don't know, I don't remember when their first fight was, but it was a long-ass time ago. be supposed to see those two scrap again. Dude, that first fight was so close to a double knockout. Do you remember? I was there.

I think it was in Manchester. It was in England. I was somewhere in England when I saw it. But no, it was London. It was an O2. But yeah, that was probably the closest moment I've seen the UFC to a double knockout. Crazy. It's crazy.

So I wouldn't mind seeing those to throw down again if Dan indeed is looking to get back in there. But I think Carlos will stay with the UFC. Just my prediction. It feels right. You know, some guys, you know, you kind of want to see, you know, I want to see him fighting Japan. Just the kind of different environment. But I feel, I think just because Carlos was so close to greatness in the UFC, like he was like, he almost knocked out GSP. He came so close to knock on GSB.

Most people thought he beat Robbie Lawler in that amazing, amazing fight, you know. So it's like you just wanted to get that one more, one more run. One more big moment. Yeah. Maybe you give him Loller and they run that one back. That'd be fun. You know what? That'd be fun.

Carlos did say, I saw in some interviews, he did say he wants to run back a lot of those losses. And Loller was one of them. Loller was one of them. I think, yeah, because I think Carlos, yeah, Carlos is at that point in his career, like, fights that maybe don't make ranking sense, but kind of makes fan sense. I don't know. Yeah. Just bucket list.

It's just stuff stuff you always wanted to do. I mean, you earn it at that point. For sure. This question, oh, going. Yeah, like, don't throw him in there with Miguel Baezza. Like, don't do that. No, I don't care about it.

Do what we're saying, exactly. Crowds him. Listen to us. But, yes, the rematch, the legend tour, that's what I want to see. Cool. Yeah. This question's about the betting, y'aws,

but it's going to just talk about this fight in general. were those some crazy betting odds in the Buckley fight? Yeah, we talked about this in the previews, though. If I was allowed to put money on fights, I mean, and it's not, and I'm not here to hate on Lockheen Buckley because I actually think he's a good fighter, but there's just certain fighters that, like,

the hype train take off down the tracks, and people who have followed someone's career for a long time are like, wait, wait, like, he's good, but let's not, let's not, like, let's not let this train just completely steamroll everything. And if I was, if I was betting or allowed to bet, I would have put a ton of money on De Chirico

because he's a solid fighter and he's been around the block. And again, I'm not here to hate on Wachley. Luckily, he's an incredible athlete and he's got a solid skill set. But the odds should not have been what they were. I would agree with that. Yeah, I think we said going, I think when we did our preview show coming to this fight, I picked DeCherico. And I was like, well, simply because,

This is the toughest. Jericho, when he fights guys better than, it sounds silly, but we fights guys he's better than him, he loses. I feel Kevin Holland is a better fighter. He lost to Kevin Holland. And when Buckley lives in Bellator, the guys he lost two, I feel are just better. And the guys he's beaten, he's better than them. And I thought, in comparing those wins and losses in his past, I thought Jacerico was going to be in the better half. and that's what we saw tonight.

Yeah. I thought if any, I thought if Buckley was going to win, it was going to be a really close decision. Like I thought I was going to get to the nitty gritty. I didn't think there was going to be, he was going to finish the fight by any stretch. But if Buckley were to win,

it was going to be a gritty fight. It was going to be one that he was going to take a lot away from. But never know what's going to happen in this sport, friends. And DeTherico got it done, nasty knockout. And then I thought the post-fight stuff was even better. That was so strange.

That was so strange. So strange. I felt for John in that moment. And I was, and I was putting myself in that position like, oh, wow, how would I tag that? How would I react to that? Like, John is like, congratulations, Alessiona Cheriko. Yay. And then he goes to the back. And John Morgan asked him one question. He does, he goes, I like the win, but I'm not doing this interview anymore because you should interview the losers too. I'm out of here, guys. 40 seconds. His whole scrum is 40 seconds. Yeah. And apparently, I mean, you guys obviously listen to the post fight, but Dana was saying that even when he came over to congratulate him, his whole, his whole team was like, you know, what the hell do you want? Like, I'm sorry. I'm just here to say, good job, you know, like he had a great knockout tonight. It's a very, it's a very interesting. I want to say, it's like it seems like his heart's in the right place. It's just a very strange, it's a strange,

it's a strange hill to die on, I guess. Yeah. I was like, and I was like, well, bro, I, like, I personally love interviewing losing fighters. And I just, I just feel there's more, more story there. But not when, not when they just got knocked out and got hit in the head very hard. Yeah. I mean, yeah. I don't mind interviewing a losing fighter days after a loss.

Even if they didn't get knocked out or pummel too much. just from a just from an ease of like a flow in an interview i hate doing it because it's so hard to ask polite questions about you know a fight that they lost unless it was really close and then that's kind of a different story i guess but i don't know i don't know i it was just a very strange hill to die i think you might appreciate this story lord so back of the invicta days when i was doing and stuff were Invicta and your fight, actually it was one of the fights you were, your, your fight that you, who did you beat? What was her name?

Cassie Rob. Cassie Rob. Yeah. And so I was actually, I was, remember it was like that big underground? Yeah. Where is it? Kansas City. But, um, I was.

Memorial Hall. Memorial Hall. So I was interviewing everyone backstage. And I wanted to talk some of the losers too, but like, I was like, oh, so I kind of put the camera down. And I always kind of, I was like, I kind of went to the coaches first. like, do you think she would like to talk about her loss? And usually they were like, whoa, you can ask her.

And then I would ask, you know, hey, do you want to talk about it? And like, I think of all those 10 fighters that lost, nine of them were like, yeah, yeah, I'll talk, you know, it's fine. I'm not going to trash you him, but there was one fighter. I asked if, when she lost the fight. And she went, she looked at me and she's like, I don't want to fucking talk about it. I don't want to throw into the bus, but like, I was like, I'll tell you later. I'll tell you later.

I'll tell you later. I was like, but she looked at. But it was like, she would look in her eyes like, how dare you? I'm like, okay. I so wish, because I think she won that night, but I so wish that the story was accidentally about Paige Van Dan. She had this alter ego where she was like, fuck, I don't want to fucking talk about it.

But I'm sure she would ever do that. And I actually think she won that night. I can't remember. But, um, yeah. Yeah, so talking to losing fighters is always, from the, us backstage is always a tricky thing. Because everyone's different.

Every fighter is different. Yeah. Some fighters are, yeah, I got to talk, but other ones are like, yeah. Thank you, Sandy.

Thank you. All right, here we go. Was Carlos Felipe versus Justin Taffa a robbery, Larcanko? I'm not prepared to call it a robbery, but maybe a pickpocketing? A misdemeanor? Yeah, I think it was, I think it was a pickpocketing.

I did have Justin winning that fight, but yeah, I don't know that you can call it a robbery. That was just a great fight. And there were a lot of really close moments. So I can't normally when I think about a robbery, I'm thinking like armed robbery, right? You know, I'm drawing this analogy out way too much in this way. I didn't see. There weren't moments I could point to and say, how could you argue that that was anything but just, you know,

Carlos Felipe winning? So I did have Justin winning, but no, I wouldn't label it a robbery. Casey, what do you think? Was this a robbery or is this like someone saying, do you have $20 I can like have?

Oh man, robbery. So, yeah, this wasn't a full-on, like, assault team robbing a bank. robbery. This is maybe more, you know, go to your local bodega and steal kombucha type of robbery. I don't know. Like, I'm not paying four. I'm not paying four bucks for this.

A handful of Splendipackets. Yeah. I like this dinner play. I'm like, that type of robbery. This is actually one of those fights that I think for fans and like, Laura, you don't understand this too, because we've seen so many fights caged side, how. the what you see on TV often is a much better view than cage side so maybe it's when when there are close fights sometimes you think shots land from where the judges are but they actually don't land or vice versa so so I think when there are close fights like this that you do have a better perspective at home than you do as a judge so I'm like I'm going to give it a little bit of leeway I guess yeah yeah Tava got hoes he didn't

get robbed. Yeah. I don't know if there's a difference between the two, but I feel like Kobe's just a little friendlier than it's been robbed. Okay, here we go. Let's talk about this one. Oh, boy. We, we, I'm done talking about it, but.

BS announcement from Dana about the UFC Lightweight Championship. I mean, like I said, because I'm a positive guy. I'm like, I'm like the corporate boss who gives back. news but like tries to sandwich in like a piece of good news. The good news was I thought they built this up so brilliantly. Like the whole thing was great. Like even from when they walked into the office and Dana like smiled and close the door, like that whole thing.

And then like the Instagram story where it's like Dana on one side and Habib on the other side. And then him doing the video saying 3 p.m. Ladies and gentlemen, when this main card starts in ABC, the announcement comes and it's going to affect everything at UFC 257. You got my attention. you got it all. And then at 302, when there was no Dana, 303, no Dana, 304, no Dana. Then we're doing the promo for Puna Soriano versus Dusko Tadorovich.

And we see them walk down the aisle. Like, I was immediate like, uh-oh, this is not going to be as cool as I thought it was going to be. Sure enough, it wasn't as cool as I thought it was going to be. Laura, what did you think? I know you're in a different position than we are, but. It wasn't quite as cool as I thought it would be. But it's kind of out of his control, right? I think he was fully anticipating a yes or no definitive conversation.

And you know what? I'm going to spin it in a positive way as well. I don't hate it. I don't hate it because it's going to add this whole other level of intrigue when we watch that fight next weekend because the co-main and main event, I think all of us in the back of our minds are going to be thinking, you know, was this enough to, tease Habib out of retirement was,

oh man, is this, you know, maybe Michael Chandler goes out there and does something just absolutely insane, right? And I don't know. Like I, or honestly in a perfect world, Connor McGregor, not that I want Dustin Poy to lose because I don't, but Connor McGregor does something magical again.

And I'm not going to lie, that would get everybody going. It would get me going. the thought that, oh, now will Habib say yes to this? Because I think there's a part of Habib that's very principled. And I think there's a part of him that doesn't want to give Connor that experience again, that shine again. I genuinely think he doesn't have a lot of respect for him, perhaps.

But then by the same token, I think Habib is at a point in his career where he also wants to, he wants to entertain people. he wants to put a capstone on his career and to beat Connor again would be that capstone and it would be a massive payday. So I don't mind it. I don't mind it. We've got an extra layer of intrigue as we watch the fights next weekend. So I don't hate it.

I don't love it, but I don't hate it. Here's the thing. I would, I would, I actually left the door open for some positivity until Dana spoke at the post-fight presser and said that Habib wasn't going to be there. He'll be there Wednesday. but he's going back home after he cornered somebody on Wednesday. If Habib was sitting next to Dana on Saturday at UFC 257 watching these fights unfold, I'm with you.

I'm all in on it. I'm actually all, I would be all in on it if Habib was there, watching it and reacting to everything that happened in those two fights. You know what I mean? I actually, but just seeing that nothing had changed from October when he announced his retirement, it's kind of a letdown, Casey.

Yeah, and it sounds like they're going to, sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt, It sounds like they're going to meet again in Vegas. So then we have like another announcement to get all excited about it. I don't know. I don't know. Announcement 2.5, Casey. Yes.

Yeah. Yeah, I feel like that we're just doing the GSP thing again now. We're like every three months, just become in retirement, you know. It's just this, it's just this thing. It was cute, the decision. Oh, the door shut. What are they talking about? You know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's,

You know, actually, I do want to criticize something, though. No. I want to criticize something, and this is actually a criticism on Habib. Why is it? I know he said he's retired, but has he just said, I vacate the belt? Because Daniel's talking about not holding up the division. Well, one thing I admire about John Jones, when John Jones went the heavyweight, he vacated the belt immediately.

He's like, okay, I'm done of this. And then if he decides to go back to 205, he'll have to fight as a challenger, I guess, for John Jones. for Habib though I don't understand why hasn't he officially vacated the belt because he's not retired oh my bad so I don't know I think he's just going to decide you know if if I think it's just literally a gut reaction if he is moved by someone's performance and and gets that fire lit in him as he's watching um then I think he's going to fight again and if it's just sort of if we see two decisions and two kind of back and forth fights, but more maybe, which I don't think this is

going to happen. I don't know how it could happen, but with the people that we're talking about, but just in some parallel universe, if it's a somewhat boring decision-type fight, then I do. I think he's going to vacate. I really do think it depends on the performances that we see on Saturday. And that was what he meant by not holding up the division. Like, in other words, I'm not going to drag it out past Saturday and past when this, he has this next conversation with Dana. Yeah, I guess, I guess. I'm just like, either, I don't know. You, Habib, I've said you're the best. I think, I think you're the goat actually and all that stuff. I'm like, but you left, dude. Like, let, let, let these gentlemen continue with the

division and let them fight with the belt. And if you want to come back, challenge them. I don't know. Or let, I don't know. But I just wish, because more belt, me, If Dustin wins a belt, if Chandler wins a belt, whatever, all these fights are just going to be just, they make more money. And I want more financial freedom and financial security for these fighters at this level. So that's why I would like the belt available for these men. That's my only, that's my only beef. I wanted the Habib Narmaga made off invitational lightweight tournament announced today, but it didn't happen. I was holding out hope.

It is what it is. We got like another week and a half of it and then we'll have our decision hopefully. How much money would you pay to see Dana and Habib's meeting? Would you pay pay pay-per-view money? That's a fun question. What would I pay? To put these two guys in a private... Oh, I would pay good money to see a lot of these meetings.

I want to see Kobe with Dana talking. money. I would love to see the money the money talks between like those level fighters. Yeah. It would be fascinating for sure. If they charged 1995 for the dinner between Dana and Habeeb in Las Vegas, would you pay it? Yeah. If it was just on magically them not knowing that it was being filmed. Because like if they know it's being filmed, then it turns into television and then people are not being as real as real can be. But if it was somehow a magical world where they don't know they're being filmed and I pay 20 bucks to like get the secret tape, yeah, I probably feel like.

Like we're the secret bus boy. We come in like, we fill the waters. Yeah. Yeah. Camera in your bow tie. Yeah. So basically we want to become spies. That's what we're talking.

Yeah. Yes. Yes. we are we are not recommending anybody do that thoughts on stepe versus francis announcements exciting is that official did dana make it official he did he did yeah it was funny because in the prospect press I can't remember who asked the question but

he said yeah it might it might have been mike bond but he said yeah you got you got it out of me good job it's official so yeah that's going to be March 27th as well so that'll be that'll be an excellent card and man I love that fight I think this is a very interesting test for Francis because level of steepa's boxing sophistication of the the angle of the wrestling like stepe a steepe is a 50 fighter who just happened to have a ginormous body like the way that he moves fight IQ the things that he pulls off in there not to say that Francis hasn't been fighting excellent fighters because he has and all those guys that he's beaten have had some

interesting tricks up their sleeves. But if you want to throw a blanket over the entire heavyweight division, it's quite often that, okay, we're looking for big shots and that's mostly what, you know, we need to worry about. Or if you're fighting DC, you're going to work about the takedowns or whatnot. But yeah, this is a big test for Francis. And I'm trying to think of the last, you know, massive horse tranquilizer type punt. But, yeah, this is, this is a big test for Francis. And I'm, I'm trying to think of the last, puncher that Stepe is faced and I don't Francis is just another level. It's probably Francis, right? Well, I would say over-reem and over-reem dropped Stepey, but that's, you know.

Yeah, that's true. And, um, D.C., but he learned his lesson. I know what you're saying. Yeah. And, um, I mean, if you watch that fight, yeah, stepea dominated rounds four through five, but man, we watch round one. That first three minutes when Francis put a beating on Stepe, let's see if... I feel like Francis is a different fighter right now. He's grown tremendously because he was, man, he was so green when he got in and started doing big things. Yeah, so I think that that could play out very differently, but Stepe's got some very nuanced skills for heavyweight.

Absolutely. Casey, I don't know. if you know this, but that night, UFC 220 at the TD Garden in Boston, you and I, we watched that fight in the same room together. Did you know that? I figure we were there to you. So we were in the back, watching the fight?

We're in the back and the legends in the old legend plays. Oh, okay. And we're all in the same boat, like, watching that first round and then watch, just seeing like how intense it was. Like, it was the quietest I've ever seen a media room through those first five minutes

of that fight. Everyone was just like waiting for every shot Francis through, we're like, ooh. And then steep is deprived of it. I like the fight. I think it's super interesting. France is obviously a different guy, but the steepe we saw against D.C. earlier this year,

or last year, excuse me, all ripped up like the cool guy haircut. He's a little more personable now. He just seems like a more comfortable guy. You know what I mean? He just seems like a different cat than he was probably for that first Francis's fight. That first Francis fight, I remember the post-fight press conference.

I asked the first questions to Steve A, he was pissed that night. That dude was angry the whole time. He just, and he refused to let Dana White put the belt around his waist. I remember that. Yes. He was just a dude. He was not a happy camper because he thought the whole thing, all the, the whole build was the Francis and Ganu show. And he was the B side while he was the champion.

That's right. I'm remembering. I forgot about that whole him being irritated on all that stuff. Thank you for the reminder. Yeah. It'll make the lead up to this one even more interesting for sure. Yeah, I remember the whole week, Steepa and Dana, it felt like you were out to dinner for a couple and you could tell they were fighting, but they were just acting like everything

was good, but you're like, you guys hate each other right now. Yeah. That's what it felt like the whole week between Dana and Steepa. I don't know if it's gotten any better, but yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about, Mike. It seems like it's gotten a little bit better. Yeah, the relationship between Stepe and Dana and. DC and Volkan got a little, we're getting a little testy too.

Remember the media day at Fenway Park? They almost got into it at the end of the media day. That was a fun card. I know what Volt can't do. Vote can't beat Daniel Hormier. That's what he said before the fight. I was like, ah, DC, your dad tons. I love it.

Yeah, he's good. I think that was the birth of there's levels to this game. Yeah, there's from that. Where does Charles Oliverer? end up in all this. So here's kind of my theory, and I'll let you guys chime in on this. It seemed just based on Dana's body language of what he was saying, you know, to John Anick and then again to the media, it seems like right now Charles Olivera in the Habib's sweepstakes is on top of the list. Like if Habib were to come back, Oliver is number one. Now can these other four guys, depending on what they do next Saturday, can they leapfrog Charles Olivera? That's kind of how I view it right now. Olivera's performance against Habib's bitter.

rival that he never got to fight, puts him at the top of the list. Now, can any of these guys upend Charles Olavera? That's how I see this. Laura, what do you think? Yeah, no, I tend to agree with you. I mean, they were very particular in bringing his name up every time this discussion happened. So it's clear that Habib must have made a big enough deal out of how much respect he had for Charles O'Levara's last performance, that that name is intentionally being injected, even though we keep talking about the four guys fighting in the two fights next Saturday. So I agree with you. There's something happened in the conversation where Habib made it clear that he was very impressed

by that performance and that Charles O'Levara needs to be in the conversation of whether Habib comes back or another fight or not. And I think you're right. It could have been a conversation. I'm just speculating here, but it could have been a conversation of, like, I would like to fight Charles Olavera, but I want to wait and see because if Connor does something just blow me out of the water spectacular, then, you know, maybe that is the fight. I don't know. So, but I agree that that would be Olavera versus Habib would be pretty fascinating given.

I mean, it's so funny because just even as I say that, even as I say that, what Charles Olaver has done for his career in the last couple months, in the last couple months, in the last year, I'd say, is nothing short of incredible, because there was a time not all that long ago where if you would have asked me to Rachel Charles O'Levara, I would have said, phenomenal grappler, striking really coming along, and he's starting to put together some knockout, but he always had specter of, you know, this question of does he quit in fights? is the mentality, is the heart there to back up this incredible submission skill set and this growing, striking skill set. And to hear, even to hear myself talk about how Habib is eyeing him

as the next greatest challenge is just so cool because I love the idea that fighters are not, you're not stuck. You don't have to get pigeonholed a certain way. You can fight your way out of a reputation for X, Y, or Z, if you put together enough performances that contradict that that reputation or that conversation that has built up around you because I'm sure that we

created that somewhat unfairly, but it's clear that he's just, he's just a different fighter these days. Remember the days Casey Liden and we've talked about this? Remember the days where Charles Olavera would just go out and dominate a guy at 55 and then he would get on the mic and all he cared about was give me

you one more chance to fight at featherweight again. Like, this is a guy who just realized that, hey, we're here. We're a 55er. We accept that. We're happy here. So my question for you is, one, do you agree with that, that Charles Olivera, because I've been saying this for a while, I don't think Habib's coming back, but if there's one guy who might entice him to come back, it is Charles Oliverer if he continues to rack up

wins. But if Oliver is on the top of this list, does this mean, in your opinion, that the fight that Dana White is trying to line up? because he mentioned Nate Diaz, booking him a fight of 55 that we'd all like. Are you thinking Nate Diaz versus Justin Gaichie, since he seems to be the odd man out of this equation right now? For, so you ask me, do I think Gaichi is going to face Nate Diaz? Is that?

If we are to believe that Olivera is in the Habib sweepstakes right now. I think Al-Avera has, I think Al-Avera is still one big one more big win away because away from Habib coming out of retirement to face Oliver. I think he still has to be one more win, one more win. I think that's how I don't mean to interrupt you. That's how I felt in my head. But then why I just kept going back to like why was his name so intentionally? I mean, it's clear that Habib really saw something because I'm with you, Casey,

if I would have written this narrative like, oh, no, he needs one more of those like, like, wow. Yeah. But it seems like. Habib really is kind of impressed by him right now. Yeah, I mean, if Fabib, that'd be really interesting, though, because, I mean, of all the fighters, you mentioned Gaichi, Poirier, McGregor, Ferguson, whatever, Chandler.

The one that sells the least amount of pay-per-views is Charles Oliver. For sure. Just from the money standpoint. But Fabib is good on money, and all he cares about is competition and how he looks at how he ranks the fighters. It's not how we bring the fighters. And if he thinks Charles Oliver is like, that guy can beat me. I want to face him.

Yeah. If that's how beep goes. But again, are we hearing this from Habib? I know everything is through other people. So I just... I wonder if... This is just me speculating the 100%. I wonder if Habib was like, I want to come back.

And I like the puzzle, the problem that Olivera presents. But Dana was like, yeah, but the money is Connor. So why don't you? wait and see if Connor does something that lights a fire in you. I wonder if the maybe, maybe let's wait a little longer was kind of the push from Dana. Now I'm just pure speculation on my part. Well, Dana still has to sell the paper view next week before he sells the B versus anyone. So I mean, I know it's a week to week thing with Dana in a lot of times as as far as, you know, what he's promoting. And that's his job. He is a promoter. That's why as much as

I thought the decision was, whatever, we watched it. The fan. Watched it. We're talking about it. We're talking about it. So Dana White's job as a promoter He did perfectly. He's winning. You know, so the fact that we're talking all these things Yeah, that's all a win for the UFC and interest and that's what he won't. Can I just say that The more I actually talk about this the less I hate it Because it's your idea? No, I just like The Ola verified Nothing has changed.

Yeah, nothing changed. We're exactly the same position. But like sometimes and it's very cliche, sometimes if you just talk things out, it makes more sense. I still don't like it. Like I've gone,

I've taken a step up from, I hate this to I just don't like this at all. Like I didn't like it. But I feel a little better than I did you know, five and a half hours ago when we got this, we got this. we got this decision.

The non-news, news, yeah. But to answer your question in the short term, watch by 666, I think Charles Olivera is a big piece to this puzzle. Or could be. Speculative. You think Max is on to something when he said fighters should do less sparring in their training?

That's a fascinating question. Yeah, what do you think, Laura? Yeah, I didn't mean to cut you off, Mike. I'm sorry. I was thinking a lot about that, and I think it really, it's certainly not a blanket answer. I think it really depends on how far you are into your career. And clearly it works for Max Holloway. Can a younger guy, I'll get away with that?

I don't. So I think the younger you are more that you need to understand the way your body reacts differently. The way your brain reacts differently when you're under. an intense amount of pressure. And obviously, there's degrees of sparring, right? Not all sparring is... Create equal. And if you go to, you know, Vanderlaid's gym,

if you go to King's MMA, you're in for some hard sparring, right? And there are some gyms that take a slightly different approach. So, of course, I would agree that the old school... I'm actually having this discussion after LFA last night, in fact, the old school days of, like, the day before your fight, let's get at the gym and let's just try to knock each other's heads off

and that's how we're going to prepare. Those days are long gone. That is 100% dumb and unnecessary. The day before the fight, people were like, let's fight all out before the actual real fight. Yeah, Edgson was telling these crazy stories about like Shogun and I can't remember who else it was. He was telling these crazy like really old school Pride Day stories of like, oh man, you know, like right before they went out. people, you know, sparring so hard in the warm up, that they're almost getting, you know, knocked out back in the day. So obviously that's dumb. But I think it has to be a case-by-case basis.

Clearly it works for Max Holloway. But Max Holloway, as we know, is a special guy. It's not going to work for everybody. And I think part of it comes down to, are you someone who has, who needs an on-switch, or are you someone who doesn't have to find the switch? I obviously had a very short career. So I'm on the side of being green.

And I needed more experience dealing with that level of pressure and finding my on switch so that I could do that in a fight. Max knows himself. So I'm kind of giving a wishy-wash answer, but I don't think it's for everybody. Some people need to spar. You just have to be spar smart. I think that's I think smart sparse smart is the answer remember um and max has been kind of um

no kind of uh very secretive about this but remember the whole situation when he was i forgot who it was um he was fine ortega originally and the week up he had those i guess remember those faintings but oh he was just dizzy and it wasn't from the weight cut yet it was actually just they had basically kind of sounded like he's had some concussion issues and those concussion issues were coming from sparring and it was carrying over to a fight week and uh i think uh i think he just learned this lesson from that and if you remember too when when uh max fought frankie egger and went to the decision and max actually said in the post fight in the post fight interview and in the post fight post fight press conference he said um you know i didn't want to go all out

with frankie in a sense that i wanted to play it safe i didn't want to take any any damage and so that fight was kind of it was kind of boring in a sense you know it wasn't like as crazy as this fight was, but Max admitted, I fought safe. I want to just get it out of there with no damage. And I think Max is realizing that. I think he has children. I think he has a kid. I mean, he has a kid. He talked about having one, he wants more kids. I think he just recently got married and stuff, or he has Beyonce. So I think Max just sees there's life after fighting. And if he's going to take, you know, that brain trauma, you know, he's going to make sure he gets he has paid for it, I think.

You have to... Sorry, go ahead. No, no, I just think he's at that point in his career where he's got all the skills. Now it's just... No, he just... No, he has to get his body in shape and the timing right, but there's no need to punch...

No, punch, punch, in the sense, to get ready for a fight at his level. Yeah, and you have to... You have to know that there is life after fighting, and I know that... Sorry, I know that Dana always gets so much shit for saying that fight got a career, You can take it one way what he means when he says that.

But I think that this topic is what he's talking about. Fighting is a, it's a young man's sport. And you have to enter it knowing that you will not be doing your life. It means that you're going to have, you know, God willing, 30, 40, 50 years after you're done fighting. And what is that chunk of your life going to look like? And I recently, I'm not going to say who it is because I don't. want to offend anybody, but there was a, there's a fighter that's been around the block for a while, and he's kind of got that style where, you know, he gets hit a lot. And I was having a conversation

with him. I hadn't talked to him in a few years. And I was like, as soon as he started talking to me, I was like, I was alarmed by his rate of speech. And like, I don't know, just the, the, the way he was having trouble finding things that we were discussing. and like couldn't, I don't know. It was, it reminded me of the article that we referenced, you know, the top of the show. And it broke my heart because it just reminded, it made me think like this guy has not maybe fully, you can say that you know, of course you know you're going to career, your career is going to end at some point.

But like there's, there's knowing it and then there's, man, knowing it and changing how you approach your career now to set yourself up for success later. And I think Max is clearly a guy who gets it and has done that. And I hope more fighters see that you don't have to sacrifice yourself for the rest of your life for a couple years of glory, even though a lot of them choose to do that. Yeah, well said. And seeing Max Holloway, especially like these days, 2020, 2020, 2021, I wonder if, like, Demetrius Johnson was just like so ahead of his time.

You know what I mean? Like it seems like a lot of things that Max Holloway has perfected at this point in his career, DJ was doing for years before that and wasn't getting the same attention that Max is getting right now from like the video gaming, the way he just like gets better, the cool, calm collectiveness that he is in the Ockton. Like if DJ had a, if DJ had like a 5043 win over somebody and defended the Flyway title, you would not be getting the same attention that Max Holloway is getting right now. I just think Max is such a cool customer,

and the UFC did such a great job, like promoting him over the years. And plus Max is just such a nice guy. I don't know. I just feel like DJ was ahead of his time, and Max is just the same guy. It's not like he was copying DJ, but I feel like the pieces that DJ presented,

Max has just taken and ran with it. Yeah, I can see that. I think Max has a pen to some great one-liners, which always helps to be, you know DJ is a personal guy but I don't know there's something special when Max opens his mouth it's either going to be here and faithful or praised in a certain way that's just sort of blightful he's he's an interesting guy to listen to all the time yeah max is fortunate in sense that he just has a great meet he just has a he's just one of those personalities just

and he's always had it if you look at his old interviews like even before he was a pro I think there was an interview as an amateur like when he's that he still has bleached blonde hair and he looks like 12 years old. But he's still the same guy. I know you're talking about. Yeah, you know what I'm talking about. Yeah, you still see that, you still see that same Max Holloway in there. So, yeah, like even the DJ thing, I think we've all talked to DJ, but then sometimes when the cameras are on, then it's kind of, it's maybe a slightly, this is in the past, a little slightly different DJ, but.

Yeah. Some things you want, it's like, DJ, where's that guy that I talk to you in private? Give me, give me 30% of that. You know, I mean, just, yeah, yeah. Sometimes I think people just feel like, and it's hard, you know, being in a camera, I know how hard it is to just be normal, you know, even though there's this camera in you. Just be normal, you know, it's harder than it sounds. Okay.

It is what it is. It is what it is. It is what it was. That's what you say. All right. One more question before we have one take a nap. what are you most looking forward to for Wednesday's card? Ooh.

All right. I want to preface this by saying that I know if you compare it to today's card and you compare it to 257, it's not as deep to be friendly about it. But if you really look at some of the matchups on Wednesday's card, there's some bangers on there. There are some really solid fights. Tyson NAM versus Matt Schnell is ridiculous. That is a ridiculous fight.

I cannot wait for that one. So if we're going under the radar, that is my pick. Laura, what is yours? I'll be perfectly honest with you between calling fights for the LFA and then watching tonight. I have not even looked at Wednesday's cards other than the main event.

So I'll just go there. I genuinely think, you know, I wanted to see the Men Edwards-Omsat-Shimaia fight. That fight, I cannot wait for that fight because Leon is such a perpetually underrated, under-hyped individual. And Hamza, I think, still has a lot to prove in my eyes, but that's not on this card.

So I will stop talking about that. No, I think Magni Kiesa is a really intriguing matchup. And they're both long, rangy guys. They're sort of similar in a sense. And I think that this is, you know, a real opportunity for Kiyasa to come out and steal the spotlight. But, man, Neil Magny has looked next level in his last couple times out, and I'm excited for that. I think that one's going to be. I hope they're on the canvas a lot because I want to geek out over some intriguing grappling exchanges, but we'll see.

It'll be a good one. Lord, do you... Oh, actually, there's a fighter debuting on Wednesday's card named Victoria Laredo. Do you remember her from Invicton? Oh, Leonardo. Leonardo. I'm sorry, Leonardo. Yeah, Victoria Leonardo.

Yeah. Yeah. So she's, um, that'll be fun. Tell us a little about I don't, I saw that she's fought and Big Dub. I don't remember her. Do you? Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, no. She's had, she's had some real fun ones. And she, uh, she won her contract on the contender series this last, um, this last season. No, she's, she's solid everywhere. She's predominantly a striker, uh, but has excellent, uh, grappling awareness. And I think has really worked on, on honing that. Um, her grappling has, particularly her control grappling.

Like, she's really good at. getting on top now and maintaining that top position, but she could throw hands. She's just, she's just a solid, durable striker that has had enough time in Invicted to really develop a well-rounded skill set. I think sometimes some of the female fighters can get rushed into the youth FC a little bit more than the guys do. And then we end up with these divisions where it's like the, the queen of the division and sort of everybody else is, you know, like anybody could beat anybody on any given day.

And I think Victoria, given her experience in Invicta, and what I saw in the Contagher series, has a real shot in making a dent and being ranked in that division sooner rather than later. But so we'll see. She'll be, she'll be phone on a watch for sure. You know, I'm excited to see eventually in the UFC or whatever other organization, maybe Invicta. I love Aaron Blanchfeld. Yes. I think she's so good.

How could you not love you? I just, I just, I just, I, yeah, so I'm excited about seeing what's on, so I'm, I got, I got in the whole, the fight finder tapology. Yeah. After last night, because I'll admit, like, a lot of times I get very myopic about the UFC and container series, because I got to really wrap my brain around those things. After being exposed to Loveth Young on, on the LFA last night, holy mo. Holy. That girl is going to be problum. What's her name? Tell me more. For some of the strawways.

Her name is Loveth Young, and she's the Nigerian Terminator. And guys, gals, if you're watching this, go look this lady up. She's got as close to a walk-off knockout as you're going to get at the strawweight division. She went out there and absolutely dominated Kelly DiAngelo last night. I know that we're supposed to be talking about UFC stuff. So I'll quit rambling now, but Loveth Young, look her out. Love it's young. All right. Another good prospect on that card who won last night, got to finish.

Michael Stack. I'm a fan of that kid. I think he's going to be really good. Michael Stack is a super young guy. His story about how he got into the sport is great. We'll let him tell that story when he gets closer. He should be on the contender series of summer for sure. But if you want a good Victoria Leonardo fight to watch, Invicta 36, 2019, Stephanie Galtmacher.

Oh my God, those two beat that breaks off each other. It was awesome. That's a fun one. Okay, last thing on non-UFC fighters, prospects. You know my new favorite fighter actually is? I hope you remember Hope Chase, the Invictive fighter? He's awesome. I love Hope Chase.

She is wild. She is. I don't know who to compare. her too. It's maybe a young Diego Sanchez, kind of like she has that kind of vibes. She has that.

Yes. That's such a good analogy. That's so perfect. She is. She, and I mean this, like with all due respect in a very charming way

we need these people. She has to screw loose and I freaking love it and I'm here for it. She called out every woman that has ever fought in Invicta and then she's

running through the UFC and like she she's a flyweight right or she yeah she's flyweight yeah 22 years old yeah she's called out chris cyborg i mean she meant it right like yeah you see you you you see that in her eyes like oh she like like we're kind of laughing we're kind of like ha ha ha we're like oh wait she's she's very serious and i love that i i i got a lot i i would say got crap but i think a lot of people felt for me in that interview because i think you could see me like trying to stifle a laugh. I wasn't laughing at her. Like, oh, how preposterous.

Like, she was just so, she was so attention. She was like, I'm going to call out, Chris Seymourg. Oh, my God, I'm in and knew that. This woman, wow, I want half of what you're taking. I want half of that. We were just talking about how some fighters, like, when they're on camera, they give us, like, 50% of their personality. When she's on camera, I feel like she gives 200%.

Like, she's just like, whatever she is, when the camera turns on, is just, whew. She's wild. She is absolutely wild, and I love it. And she loves Jesus so much, and she will bring that up as well,

which makes for another fascinating. Live your life, hope, Jace, live your life. God was pouring her in that fight. I'm not mocking that. I grew up that way, I'm not making fun of it,

but like she wears it on her sleeve. And so it's very Diego Sanchez. We'll just, yeah, very Diego Sanchez. It was, um, I was, um, it's,

want to see hope chase versus um what's her name trains with like the diaz brothers are in stockton with chelsea chelsea chalely chalely chanler that's the fight to me that's the fight that's i want that girl and i i always hate saying this because i'm sure it pisses fanning off but i want big things for these women so i want chelsea chanelsea chanler and the ufc tomorrow that girl's attitude she she's my favorite she's my favorite because she is like Like when she fought, now I'm going to forget her name with the woman from L.A. who, like, weighed in a fur coat and was the sunglasses and, like, had the whole thing. Beautiful girl.

And Chelsea just comes out there. She's just like, you know, Diaz, just dripping Diaz and beat the brakes off of her. Anyway, enough of women's been me. Women. Women. Women. Where are we talking about women? They're talking about some bros, some dudes.

That's some bruskees, yeah. Hey, listen, who had the fight of the year last year? Not the men. The women had the fight of the year last year. Exactly. I love seeing them. And there were two men that fought after those women. They just pity padded for 25 minutes.

Come on. Yep. Girls bring it. Well, there you have. There's always been like a little chip on our shoulder about being in there. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think we have waxed poetically on UFC fight.

Island 7, the UFC's debut on ABC. We have discussed pretty much everything in the world of MMA from the decision to Holloways win over Cater, to even women's MMA. We got there at all. Prospect Watch, we did it all. It's music. It's wonderful, right? I can't. I can't. Face the pain. Laura Sanko, face the pain. We're kind of closed the show. We're so relaxed right now. So, Laura, thank you so much for joining us. your best. Anything else you want to get out of your chest before you say goodbye? No, I just need to go sleep. This was a lot of fun. Thank you guys.

And this theme is just, I'm so here for it. I love it. Thank you guys. There you go. So for Loracenko, for Casey Lyden, I am Mike Hack. Thank you for watching. Good night, everybody. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.