MMA Fighting - UFC on ESPN 12 Post-Fight Show

Episode Date: June 28, 2020

MMA Fighting’s Mike Heck and Jose Youngs break down the top storylines following Saturday night’s memorable UFC on ESPN 12 event in Las Vegas, including Dustin Poirier’s main event victory over Dan Hooker in a Fight of the Year contender, and Mike Perry returning to the win column with a unanimous decision over Mickey Gall in the co-main event. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow José Youngs: @JoseYoungs Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. All right. UFC on ESPN12 is officially in the books and what a wild event it was from the Apex in Las Vegas. And it ended with an all-time classic in the lightweight division in the main event. What's going on everybody? Welcome to the UFC on ESPN12 post-fight show here on MAAfighting.com. I am Mike Heck being joined by Jose Young's. Jose, what an outstanding main event.

The card was wacky and zany and so many different ways. from start to finish. This is the first question I normally have for Alex Keeley when we do these post-fight shows, but how would you grade this one from start to finish? That is an excellent question. In terms of are we grading it in a letter grade? From like A to F, I'd give it a A minus B plus in terms of like I feel like every, I can, I judge the fight cards based on if I can remember every single fight.

Or if I can remember at least moments of every single fight, then it was a good fight card. I'd say A minus is a very fair grade. I think I'm with you on that. I mean, the main event clearly puts it over the top. It turns out of B to an A minus. And I think the word unexpected is a very appropriate word in a lot of cases, but we'll talk more about that later on.

But it was just a lot of fun. But Jose, let's get right to the main event. Dustin Poirier gets a hard-fought decision win over Dan Hooker. What an incredible freaking fight that was. Because, you know, we talk about like the echo from shots landed in the empty arena, and you hear from time to time. But this fight in particular, this is like clapping over and over again. So give us your thoughts on 25 minutes of supreme violence in the apex tonight. It's we, we, if, if Jane Wiley versus, uh, Yawani and Jajik doesn't happen, this is the best fight of the year.

But I feel like that happens, like all of these apex cards have had these, like we've had the Spike Carlyle, Quintillo fight. We had the Shane Burgos, Josh Emmett fight. Now we have like poor AV hooker. So it's like the trend is there where just because there's no fans there in the small octagon, you're going to get these epic wars. And I think all of us agreed leading into this fight. This is by far the best main event we've had in terms of competitiveness of these apex card.

Because yes, Amanda Nunes fought in the main event, Gilbert Burns. Woodley was awesome. But like just on paper, this, we had this circle. Like, I don't care, I'm going to say it again. I don't care if it was in an arena. With no fans or 70,000 fans, I don't care if it was 25 minutes. I don't care if it's five minutes. Dustin Poirer versus Dan Hooker, you knew was going to be just insanity.

It was going to be a buzz saw versus a wood chipper in there. And they delivered with flying colors. One of the best fights I have ever seen. It's not even, like, would you, it's hard to say, like, if it's the best lightweight fight of the year because like Gachy Ferguson was also great, but I kind of put it above that because it was just so close back and forth while Gachi kind of turned the corner at the end

and dominated by the end. So unbelievable lightweight fight and a division that's been so stacked for so long, I think this sits right up there with best fights at 155 pounds. Gachy Ferguson and Poria Hooker, like there's arguments for both because they're both like two totally different fights.

Like Gachi was just so violent in that fight and he was landing so many shots and Tony Ferguson just walked through them all and we're just fascinated by the whole thing. And I'll do you, I'll do you one better. This might not even be, there's arguments that this isn't even Dustin Porreier's best fight.

Like his fight against Justin Geichy, his fight against Max Holloway, like his fight against now Dan Hooker, like Dustin Poirier has cemented himself as one of the most exciting fighters that we've seen in a long time. Like of his generation, Dustin Porre has to be,

one of the most, like he's never in a bad fight, ever. Even if he loses, at least it's like, yes, that shows like the Habib fight maybe wasn't as exciting, but he at least, he showed game in that, he got that guillotine. Yeah, everyone was going to be like, oh, it's a guillotine, it was like, that just shows how good Habib is. Dustin Poirier is one of the most exciting fighters of his generation. So, uh, and Hooker, his win over Dan Hooker is just another notch, uh, on his mantlepiece for just fight of the year candidates.

He's a great fighter and he's an even better human being, which just, it's a full package. Now the inaugural winner of the Forrest Griffin Community Award, I believe is what it's called. And there's no one more deserving of that award than Dustin Porre. And there's no one more deserving of being a co-member of the fight of the night after that incredible fight with Dan Hooker. And of course, in the records, there's a winner and there's a loser. And Dustin Porre was the winner. but this is one of those fights that the stocks of both guys definitely rose. Like Dan Hooker proved that he is an upper echelon guy in a loaded division.

And I think Justin Gaichy said it best, Dan Hooker deserves a seat at the big dog table, does he not? Oh, 100%. I mean, Justin Gachie said he was going to go get marked. And not only did he not go get marked. He won the first two rounds. We were debating, like, who won what rounds? Like the official scorecards had, it was 2-2 going into the fifth with Dan Hooker winning the first two and then Dustin Porre. pulling out the last three. So it was basically, like Dan Hooker just needed to win one more round,

and we would be talking about how Dan Hooker has emerged as a legitimate contender. Yes, he still is a legitimate tender, but like you said, there are winners and losers. I think Dan Hooker proved a lot of, including myself, naysayers wrong, where I did pick Dustin Porter to win. I knew this was going to be a violent fight, but I was at his fight against Edson Barbosa. I sat sat in that arena in Milwaukee. And Dan Hooker, his body just gave out on. it's not like Dan Hooker wasn't tough like we saw him trying to fight and his body just shut down so I was I was not worried not the right word because he's professional fighters I was I had questions whether his body could handle 25 minutes against a violent fighter of Dustin Porre's calorie because

just Paul Felder is a phenomenal fighter but he is a much more technical martial arts and Dustin Porre is just violence personified so I was I had questions personally how Dan Hooker's body would hold up and my god did he answer those questions with flying colors absolutely and i think we know it should be next for pourier a date with tony ferguson way i love it i love it november december that that's the fight that's we may hopefully at the end of the year five rounds yes hopefully five rounds yeah i mean even even if i don't care if you want to invent another title i'm totally okay with that but dan hooker he's got to have another big fight heading his way at some point but it's going to be interesting

to see how things sort of align at the end of the year when we talk about like the fight of the of the year. Because obviously like Zhang Wei Li versus Yanni and Jacek, that one sticks out in our minds. It's one of those unforgettable fights. But this one is right there. I don't know if it overtakes it, but it'll be interesting to see how people, people look at it at the end of 2020. It was an incredible fight. If I had a hat, I would take it off to both guys. But the co-made event, we have Mike Perry who shut everybody up with a disciplined performance, an intelligent performance. had his girlfriend in his corner. He did, she did exactly what he said he would do.

She shouted out the occasional cheering moment, but gave him ice, gave him water, and Mike Perry's very happy with what she did. He gets back on the wind column, gets a unanimous decision win over Mickey Gall. This fight did not play out the way most expected it to, but overall, were you surprised with how this fight played out? No, not really.

I'd be more surprised that he did so well on the grappling, I should say, I still am in the camp that Mickey Gall is a better jujitsu practitioner, but Mike Perry is just stronger. He's just a physically stronger human beings. So like Mickey Gall is shooting for takedowns and go for these transitions and everything. And Mike Perry was just big brother to it. It's like, yeah, your son could be a blackbow. If you outweigh him by 200 pounds, you could probably still body him around.

Like I don't care what anyone says. Like, yeah, he's going to be a better grappler. But Mike Perry just pushed in. Like, there were moments where Mickey Gall was, like, shooting for a takedown. And Mike Perry's defense was just, I am stronger than you and just, like, would shove him away. So, no, I wasn't overly surprised. I picked Mike Perry to win. I said at the beginning of this, in our preview show, that I just think Mike Perry's fought higher caliber opponents, has seen more in the octagon.

I just think he has more tools to win. And he showed that in here. I am surprised at the adjustments he's made and how having no coach. which didn't really play a factor for this fight. I don't know if it would have, I don't know if he fought anyone else, if he would have had the same success, because like he said in there, at his post-fight press conference, he was lucky to have Mickey Gall because he didn't need advice in that fight.

He just went out there and beat him up for 15 minutes. So, yeah, I wasn't overly surprised with how Mike Perry performs, because he's been in the UFC, his debut was UFC 202 on a short notice too. So, yeah, it wasn't surprised. He's such a wild man most of the time. He's a wild card. He's the definition of a wild card. 100%.

And this obviously will be a fight that Mickey Gall will grow from. You saw leaps and bounds improvements in the striking. He caught Perry a couple of times. He didn't really hurt him a rock or anything. But he was scoring on the feet. But for Mike Perry, I think he showed a lot of things tonight. He showed a lot of composure. He really did.

I thought the post-fight interview with John Anick was fantastic. It was an A-plus. The media scrum was great. And to me, yeah, he didn't have the highlight real knockout that people may have expected him to have. when fighting a guy like Mickey golf. He was going to win. Most people expected Mike Perry to finish him.

But this is a very, very good night for platinum Mike Perry, was it not? 100%. I mean, he was on two-fight losing streak. He's lost three or four. There is all like, but people like losses are losses. But like look at the losses. Like Vicente Luque was a split. Just beat by Jeff Neal-Ferrin Square.

Vicente Luque was a split. And then Dalcironi taps him. So it's like he's not losing to quote-unquote bombs. And he beat that cowboy Alvarez. and an awesome fight, and he beats Mickey Gall an awesome performance. So Mike Perry, what did I say going into this? Even if he loses, you can't lay an egg. He needs an exciting fight, but he won, and he dominated.

This is exactly, the only thing that could be better than this if you just went there and destroyed him in the first round, Mickey Gallo the first round. Then that would have been the best case to know, but I think seeing Mike Perry fight in there intelligently for 15 minutes will do wonders for him in the eyes of fans. Mike Perry is talking about training with YOL Romero. that can only make you better and stronger in a lot of different ways.

And he said he wants to go up to 185 and fight Darren Till. So of course, we would all love to see this fight. We've all wanted to see this fight for a long time. Is Mike Perry the biggest Robert Whitaker fan right now? Because if Darantel beats Robert Whitaker, they're not going to make Mike Perry versus Darantel. It's just not going to happen. No, well, didn't you hear Mike Perry?

If he sees Darren Till he's fighting. So you say he might be not a big Robert Whitaker fan like, what makes you think Darren Till and Mike Perry are going to be fighting inside an octagon? That's what I have that. That is a great point. So that's your fight? Let's think a little more realistically here.

What would you like to see next for Mike Perry? I think Darren Till would be cool. If they can somehow find a way to make that fight happen, they will. I'd say the chances are pretty slim, unless all these factors just fall into place at the right time. If he wants to stay at welterweight, wow, that is tough.

That's because he's not ranked. So it's not like you can look at 15. I'm trying to look up the rankings. While we do this, because I should have done that before. I got a perfect one that you're going to probably do with. Nico Price. Does Nico Price have a fight?

No, he just fought that he had a, he's coming off a loss, but. I know he just lost in Sancte Lucke. Yeah, in a crazy ass fight. I think Mike Perry versus Nico Price makes, makes perfect sense.

Yeah, I'm 100% in favor for that. Yeah, you're right. That's the answer. That's the only, Now that's the thing I want to see. Yeah, and that's, you know, whatever happens between Mike Perry and Darren Till.

Hopefully, maybe Mike Perry will go to fight Island and be on site. Maybe he'll corner somebody else on that card so that we get to see those two guys sort of meet face-to-face. But there are a lot of finishes on this card tonight. Of course, Poria versus Hooker was the fight of the night. That's no surprise to anybody. Performance of the night went to the 20-year-old Kay Hansen, the youngest female fighter on the roster. and the returning Julian Juicy J. Arosa, 50 Gs for each of them. Did the UFC get this right in your opinion with so many great finishes on the card?

You knew this question was coming. I mean, I knew Julian Arroyo. I had, when we did our post-fight press conference show, I said, Poria Hooker was a lock for fight of the night. I had Julian Arosa winning just for the storyline and how awesome that submission was like the snapdown dars, like the standing dars snapdown to beat Sean Woodson, who was a massive favorite. it. I personally liked Maurice Greens, a submission over Gianvalante, a little more, considering it was arm triangle from the bottom at heavyweight.

If you like stories, the storyline is there too. Kay Hanson was awesome. It was beautiful. Her story is great. I think the fact that she gave props to Ronda Rousey, and then Ronda Rousey tweeted about her, definitely played a fact in her getting a bonus. So I don't want to say they're wrong because at the end of the day, there's really no wrong answer with all these awesome submission wins. But personally, I think Maurice Green's arm triangle from the bottom is more impressive than Kay Hanton's arm bar. When you have a card like this with so many memories that we've all talked about, a lot of fights and fighters, they're going to get overlooked here.

Like Brennan Allen versus Kyle Dawkins, that was an awesome fight. And I thought that fight was lined a little ridiculous. I think Brennan Allen was like a minus 340 favorite or something like that. I think it was that high, but he was a high favorite. I thought that should have been lying closer. And Kyle Doc is tough as nails. That was a really, really good fight. Rosa Woodson was a ton of fun.

Kamaworthy. What a great win over Luis Pena. We were all talking about that one. And then the main card began. And, you know, it was kind of like an afterthought. Unfortunately, he finishes the fight in the third round. submits Luis Pena. Like, who the hell thought that was going to happen?

Takashi Sato, the great finish. Tana Bojure with the great finish. Yusuf Zalalal improves the 2-0. A lot to like on this car. What sort of stuck out to you from? the earlier prelims? Well, Cammer Worthy's obviously was a big one. I think I've noticed a trend and he did what the heck, of course,

and then he did the post-fight press comments and Media Day. And I've seen a lot of people become really big fans of Camerworthy, even before this fight even happened. I mean, his interview with you where he's talking about like Black Wall Street and how training, just teaching BJJ to police officers isn't the solution. and then him having a lot of fun at the post-fight press conference and saying, I'm not fighting for the title. Like, yeah, that'd be cool.

But I'm fighting for my family. I'm like, he admits himself, he's like, what, 33, 34, which is old in this game. He wants to have these fun performances. He wants to quote Robbie Lawler, Roy McDonald fight, which is just, if you're that old, if you're that old, and for me, we'll just listen and I'm doing air quotes, because it's old, it's old and fighting. If you're calling for fights like that at his age, like God willing, man, like you are on a, You are on a different spectrum than me.

So Cam Worthy was a big one. Personally, big fan of Yusuf Zalalal, every time I interview him, he has to bring up the fact that he goes, oh, you're going to ask me when we're going to Morocco, aren't you? Because I always ask him that. And he's always like, just say the word, and we'll bring, we'll get the UFC octagon there. Obviously not going to have any time soon. And then Tanner Bozer was a, like, I got a concussion watching that finish, just through the television. So you named a lot of them.

But Cam Worthy was a big one. and Yusuf Zalall personally stood out to me. Just because I've interviewed those guys a million times, and Ken Worthy has emerged as the people's fighter of this fight week. He's always been like that, though. He really has. He was going to his post-fight, all the things he said, I've heard him say before.

Like, after he beat Devante Smith, he was like, he goes, listen, I'm old. I ain't going to be fighting for a title. He goes, yeah, if it happens great, but I'm not going to be fighting for a title. Like, and if Kamaworthy's old, I am screwed. So let's not even go there. But a great win for him.

Yusuf Zalalal. He's only 23 years old. That was a big win over a veteran in Jordan Griffin who made weight twice in a two-week span. So it was just a great night, a lot to discuss. We got to pretty much everything on this 10-fight card tonight. But at the end of the day, we have a weekend off, Jose. We get a little bit of a break in the action, and then we're on to Fight Island. So how are you going to spend next Saturday now that you don't have to cover any fights?

Man, I don't know. It's going to feel weird, especially because I've been on the road. like we had Casey Liding on the scene and I'd tell you what man I had some serious FOMO like watching his work like I'm like I should be there and I knew exactly what he was doing I knew like who was going to be there like it felt weird but I'm glad someone else got to experience it I don't know what I'm going to do I'm probably not going to look at a screen TV computer phone or anything like that probably going to read a nice book in this blistering heat that is Arizona while the coronavirus just sweeps across this state so yeah I

I don't, man, I don't even look past tomorrow. That's, that's my answer. I'm not going to lie. I was hoping, like, a message would come my way from one of our bosses, be like, hey, Mike, why don't you fly to Vegas? We'll get you to cover that event, and I would have jumped on a plane. I would have absolutely gone, but I don't know what I'm going to do with myself either. I actually woke up early this morning, and I ran up a mountain and back down a mountain.

Look at you, man. 16 miles total. You had 16 miles? Eight miles up. eight miles down. That's seven more miles. That's 15 more miles than I can run. Yeah.

I've made it up and I was like, oh shit, crap, this is great. And then all of a sudden we had to go back down. I can't even walk up the stairs now. I was a terrible mistake. But good thing. Good thing your kid likes to run downstairs and hop on the camera. Yep, that's right. And he will.

So, Kamowworthy, you are not old at all, my man. You are good to go. Congratulations on the win. But Jose, any final thoughts on a very, a very memorable UFC on ESPN12 at the apex before they take a month off from Vegas. Not even UFC on ESPN12. The fact that we had all these apex cards and Jacksonville cards, it was a historic couple of weeks, and I'm very much looking forward.

Now that Dana White teased the Fight Island photo on Twitter and Instagram and social media, he had the Octagon on the beach. And he wrote like, this is awesome, fight Island. I am so intrigued. So I can't wait for coverage from that. I won't be there. I don't know 100% from our site who's going, but we'll have someone there.

So I'm very much looking forward to the month of July. And then maybe in August, you can come out to Las Vegas with me and we'll just dominate the cover scene. But let's get through July 1st. Absolutely. So what an event. Hope you guys enjoyed it. It was universally praised on social media.

So glad you guys all enjoyed it. And I'll enjoy your week off if Independence Day is on the way as well. So for Jose Youngs, I am Mike Eck, UFC on ESPN 12. The bow is officially on. We'll see you. Thanks for watching. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.