MMA Fighting - UFC on ESPN 15 Post-Fight Show

Episode Date: August 23, 2020

MMA Fighting’s Mike Heck, Alex K. Lee and E. Casey Leydon break down the top storylines from Saturday night’s UFC on ESPN 15 event in Las Vegas, including Frankie Edgar’s split decision win over Pedro Munhoz in the bantamweight main event. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Alexander K. Lee: @AlexanderKLee Follow E. Casey Leydon: @ekc Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Good evening, UFC Fight Fans. This is the UFC on ESPN 15, Munoz versus Frankie Edgar post-fight live stream. And now your host, Mike Heck. What a beautiful introduction that was, Casey Liden. We're live, everybody, following an absolutely wild car in Las Vegas tonight is welcome you to the UFC on ESPN15 live.

post-fight show for MMAfighting.com. Frankie Edgar just defeated Pedro Munoz in the main event via split decision. We will get into that fight and much more. First off, I am Mike Heck, being joined by Alex K. Lee, E. Casey Lydon on the production side, he will dwell. Thank you to all of you who are joining us right now. If you're watching or listening after the fact, we appreciate that as well.

And, of course, if you have thoughts, questions, whatever, in regards to tonight's event, leave them. We're here to hang out with all of you first and foremost. But AK, I think this card warrants the usual letter grade question to kick off. We saw this card come together. We saw it fall apart. We saw pieces fall into place. We saw some of those pieces fall out.

We lost two fights yesterday at the Wayans, got one back, lost the co-made event just a couple of hours before the card was set to begin due to a positive COVID test for Oban St. Peru. Despite all of these hurdles, AK, this was a lot of fun. How would you grade tonight, all things considered? I have to give it a strong, a less, a light A minus. I'm going to go a light A minus. I was thinking either a strong B plus or a light A minus.

People can construe that however they want. I didn't want to penalize the card for having less fights because I'm in favor of cards not always having to be 10, 11, 12. I think like eight fight cards would be great. Fight nights would be great in the future, like four prelims, four main card fights. I think that would be awesome. So I don't think we're ever going to get that.

So this nine fights was kind of nice. We had some good finishes, some interesting stoppages, to put it nicely. A couple of good fights that went the distance, including the main event. So I'm going to be very, I'm going to go A minus here. I know that sounds like a really high, strong grade. But again, I think I'd like to see more cards constructed this way, even though it wasn't really how they intended to do it. All right. So I'm going to build upon this before we throw it to Casey.

I don't think he's going to be quite as high on the grade as we are. but to me we saw six finishes in nine fights. We saw two fights that are going to be in the running for comeback at the end of the year. We saw the biggest upset in UFC history, according to betting lines, which Sean Adopson defeating Maria Agapova. There we go, John Anick. And there's nothing better in my mind, plus the main event was awesome. But there is nothing better in my mind than a card that everybody scoffs at.

Even I, one of the heirs of positivity, even I snickered at this card a little bit on but man, the action delivered in a big way. And maybe I'm grading on a little bit of a curve here because I went in with okay. This is an easy A for me, A.K. Casey, I don't think you're going to grade it that strongly. What do you think? I enjoyed this card. The overachiever of the year.

How about that? This card exceeded, exceeded expectations. My big thing is just, I mean, we watched outside of the main event, it was a glorified Contender Series card. But it was still a great card. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed the nine fights. I bummed out that all these fighters, you know, had got COVID and, you know, they're missing

paychecks and have to deal with that stuff. That sucks. But what we got tonight was quality and entertainment and great storylines. Great storylines. All right. Well, before we dive into more of the fights as they transpired, We do have the bonuses. They have been released.

They are out there for the public. Fight of the night, no surprise. The main event, Pedro Munoz versus Frankie Edgar. Performances of the night went to Trevin Jones. I don't think that's a big surprise, even though the stoppage was a little. And Shauna Dobson gets 50 Gs as well. Thoughts on that, AK. Did the UFC get this one correct?

Yeah, I can't see any major issue. That Sean Dobson definitely deserved one for what is apparently, I guess, depending which betting site you go to, the biggest upset in UFC, I think I saw some of people saying she was big as a plus 900 underdog, which would have been more than Holly Holie home and Rhonda Rousey and some other notable fights. Even I think Matt Serra, I think some people said was closer to the GSP fight, the first one, closer to plus 800. So and that was like on the on the farther scale of betting odds. So yeah, this might have been, we might have seen the greatest upset in UFC history. Maybe a lot of mentioned such a favorite.

So, you know, that's, that's certainly a quirk of the odds, a quirk of betting, something we see sometimes. We see it in Belty. We see, but they're sort of heading. It did seem like a sensible thing. So, yeah, Sean Adopson, absolutely deserving. Jones will take the interesting stuff, but good for him. Other big, Timor Valley with much more of a name. And of course, Edgar and Munoz.

I think one of the, the, I don't know if it's going to part of it. I think we all know what the frontrunner is there. But, yeah, definitely both. Kudos over. Could be wrong. I think, if I think, fine, performance is not. that Trevin Jones would have to get a

night, but this is a good one. If you want to give it a joke, it wouldn't have been mad at that. And standing rail, you don't see that. Some great performances. Some fun fights and some, yes. So, Casey, what do you think?

Do you think the UFC got this right? I mean, the fight of the night's obvious, but performances of the night, we good with us? But who got the other performance? I'm sorry? There's Jones and Dobson. Oh, so they get the Jones, huh?

Hmm. No, we're not. I give it the Jones. But I didn't... Dobson definitely gets it just because that was... I mean, yeah, that was... The odds of that... And I thought the odds were legit, too.

Like, Shana... Shana? Shana. Respect, respect. Shana Dobson... I mean, basically, I don't think she's a UFC-level fighter. I think she's a very nice lady, and I'm very happy for it, but I just didn't think she was a UFC-level fighter.

and holy crap she just outlasted Agapova I thought and actually I thought Don did just an incredible job in doing color commentary tonight when he basically said Agapova is just

the pace she is setting is just impossible to keep up just impossible and Shana Dobson just had to survive and literally that's all she did she survived in Agapova just looks like to me just passed out during the fight so but 50K. I would definitely given the other 50K to, I think, either Rodriguez or the standing

rear-necked-chook by Seleki, which was just awesome. But yeah. Which Rodriguez? Oh, yeah. Mike. We'll go Mike. Mike? Yeah. There you go. Slow Mike Rodriguez. A big huge win for him. He needed that one badly. Marcin Prachio, I don't know if we're going to see him much more in the Octagon, unfortunately. Heads a lot of success heading in to his Octagon run, but now he's Olin. three and I have a hard time believing they're going to bring him back unfortunately.

Oh, you know what? You know, I totally forgot. Jesus. Why didn't Jordan Wright get a freaking some sort of bonus? He's an 85 or fighting a heavyweight coming down to 205. I mean, he was not. I know. No, that was a legit cut.

That wasn't one of those. Oh, I kind of got you with my elbow. That was like he was putting a hurting on him. And coming in on six days notice to up and weight, yeah, there could have been a lot more bonuses tonight, but one of those nights. Yeah, that was the performance Jordan Wright needed because I think a lot of people had called in the question sort of his strength of schedule getting into the UFC. And, man, he delivered in a big way.

Ikeville in a way of his a tough SOB. He made it happen. I saw a lot of rude tweets about Westport Jordan Wright came up calling him a Ken Crusher because he fought for X up then, which I guess wasn't one of the cool regional promotions with the hipster MMA crowd out there. It's true, yes, I think someone made a good point. He didn't fight anyone, I think, that even had a winning record or maybe any record at all until, like, his seventh or eighth pro fights.

But that doesn't speak to the quality of his skills, right? That's just kind of the matchmaking and could be circumstance. And, yeah, he looked great. He weighed in at 200 pounds for this light heavyweight bout. Again, he only took the fight on three days' notice, so literally off the couch. And good for him, taking a guy, a veteran in Eichloiba. So I'm getting a bonus. Stopperges is rare.

I think Ferguson might have gotten one for a ceremony. I can't remember. Dr. Stopp just usually, I don't know. I mean, I almost knocked him out in the first 10 seconds, man. Almost. You crazy. Almost. But he didn't, Casey.

But he didn't. And we don't give bonuses for almost, okay, in the UFC. And also, what a super nice kid after a very, very staged North Cudesque interview after breaking out all the, all the cliches and saying all the nice things he can. So good for you, Jordan. Right. We'll see you again at 185, I guess. Absolutely. Let's main event.

We've talked about some of the prelims. talk co-main event a little bit. Let's talk about this main event. Frankie Edgar drops to 35. I call Dredger. Both in on the show. It looked like he should have been there for years. And the fight was high level. Like, talk about a wild night and then you cap it off with a main event like that,

that high level chess match with two guys, just giving it they're all. Very close fight. And I was telling you guys before we went live here, there's not a scorecard, in my opinion, outside of like a 50 to 45 for either guy. that's wrong. Like, I don't think anything's wrong. I had scored it for Frankie 4847, AKA, how did you score it? I think I would have gone 4847 Munoz, and I say this, as I think people know, I'm a massive Frankie Edgar fan. I just think Munoz landed the more damaging shots. Again, and it's one of those things that it's hard for us to tell, certainly from the outside looking

in, you know, I guess we just go based on kind of, you know, volume, just kind of eye, how does the opponent react to getting hit? And it is really hard to tell. The striking, the on-screen, significant strike numbers during the fight were very close, at least through the first four rounds. So if people pay any heed to those, then certainly it was a very difficult fight to call. I'm looking at MMA Decisions.com right now. Very heavily favor, heavily in favor of Munoz. I see four scores for Edgar, and I'm just going to a quick count here. It looks to be about 16 or 17 scores for Munoz ranging from 48, 47 to 4946.

our own Jed Mishu went to 48-47 Munoz and was adamant on Twitter that Edgar was getting his butt kicks during the fight and anything besides of Munoz win was absurd. But that's a very Jed Mishu way of putting things. Yes, Jed was quite angry as he normally is on Twitter. Probably from Rons 3 through 5 and then once the judge's score cards were read, I think an LOL was put in all caps before he gave his thoughts on that. Oh, no. Oh, no. So Casey, AK scored it from. Munoz 4847, I scored a 4847 for Edgar.

How did you score it? I scored for Frankie Edgar. Outside of maybe, what would we, beforehand, the fight was so good. Every round was very similar in the sense. It wasn't like one round that someone got hurt. So I'm kind of, I'm already getting the rounds confused, actually, in my head. But I don't remember there being a really solid, like this round, a hundred percent has to go to this guy. Maybe round two, was that, was that?

What round was that? I thought two was a clear Frankie round. Yeah, according to the on screen numbers. Three was a clear Munoz round. Three? He said, yeah, and I thought the rest were pretty close. Yeah. This is one of those fights as like, I hate saying it.

It's like, man, a draw would have been pretty cool. It's like, I just didn't think Munoz, I don't think either guy deserves to lose, you know? But unfortunately, if a draw, neither will, neither guy wins their actual win bonus. So that sucks, too. but I did score for Frankie but it was one of those fights where I legitimately I kind of expected Munoz to win but I thought the

like kind of AK said like it's really just how you judge their reactions you know like if you get hit hard who's got the better poker face and I just think maybe Frankie had a better poker face for the judges in the sense that the shot just he was hiding the limp in his leg like as soon as he got his hand raised

you saw all his adrenaline you saw he was limping pretty bad. So if he had limped during the fight one point, at one point, maybe even switched stance to show the judges that those shots, those leg kicks were hurting, I definitely think Frank he would have lost the fight. But man, Frank he was just so tough and just went like, whatever, whatever. And I think that's what, I just think he fooled the judges in a sense with all the leg kicks, not hurting him. But by the way, shout out to our YouTube comments. MMA ELO. Jed Mishu is the worst score in all the media. So the people,

People have spoken. Yeah. That's not me. That's not me. That's from the comments. I don't say nothing. Jed is my colleague. I have no comment on it.

But that is from the YouTube comments. The people have spoken. Yeah. I think Casey make a really good point that like, look, there's a reason Edgar has been fighting this long and has won so many competitive decisions in his career is he's always in it and he's always busy. If you're always in a fight and always busy, you are putting the judges in a position to have to score against you and it's hard to do because they're like, okay, well, this

guy is he hurt. And he's throwing more. He's still throwing. How can he be losing the fight? So I know the judges are obviously more qualified than us. They should be able to tell the difference, but it's really, really difficult when you're there alive, depending what angle you're getting. It may be a little bit easier in an empty venue or maybe harder in another way. So I don't criticize any of the judges at all, any of the calls they made today, whether it was for Edgar or whether it's for Munoz because, yeah, it was a really, really close fight. And by the way, a really, really great fight. Yes. Excellent fight. Perfect cherry on top of the wild side. Sunday that we had. This wasn't like vanilla ice cream at all. This is like moose tracks with like 17

different crunchy additives to this ice cream. That's what this card was. And then the whipped cream and the cherry was that main event. It was excellent. I would say like when you're watching fights like this, I don't know how it feels for you. But like at some point I'm just hoping, God, someone dropped the other guy. Someone like really hurt the other guy. So I can so I don't have to like judge this round. I just need someone to definitively win because like it was, you know, it was like, oh. I was like, man, I do not want to judge this fight. Because I was, like, I was enjoying it so much. I was like, oh, okay, now I have to actually watch it.

You know, and watching a fight for entertainment and judging are kind of two different things. And I was like, I just want, I just, it was just an excellent fight. Such good MMA boxing and just, I kind of, the only downside, I wish there was actually a little bit more of a, I wish there was some more action on the ground, just make it more of a complete mixed martial arts fight. but it's what it was and it was just a great fight. I'm just, I'm excited that we make, you know, our livelihoods are just watching, you know, amazing fighters do their thing on our TVs. And that was just, I felt, I felt very fortunate tonight. I would agree with you.

I know, AK, we host our weekly podcast onto the next one. We matchmake all these fights coming out of Saturday night. This is a no-brainer. Frankie Edgar versus Dominic Cruz. There is no other fight to make, right? I don't know what you mean. I think with this win, clearly, I'm going to say we're all thinking here. I speak for America.

Okay, I live in Canada, but I speak for America. Frankie Edgar has clearly leapfrogged Al Jermaine Sterling as the number one contender at 135 pounds. This one's for you, Dana White. If you want immediate, this is for the next hype video. When they do book this fight, you'll hear my voice. Man, what a performance by Frankie Adreys still got it. Leaproggins himself right into the number one contenders. spot.

No. I shouldn't have done it. Now it's out there. The clip is out there without, and anyone can take it now without context. No, I, while that would be a very UFC thing to do, to give someone like Frank Yeager, who has received many, many title shots in career

in his career to get another one so soon, I really don't think that's going to happen. I think Damon, Dr. Martin tweeted earlier that Dana White seemed to begrudgingly at least say that he, that he thinks, he didn't say that he is. He thinks Al Jermaine Sterling should be,

next? Things should. It was a very conditional statement. Hold on. We've been upgraded from, I'm not ready to say that to Al Jermaine Sterling is likely next. Likely.

We've upgraded. That's good. Way to go, Aljo. You're in there. You're in there. But yeah, oh, Dominic Cruz, Frank Yeager. That's a dream match.

That's a dream match. Absolutely. Let's go. Book it tomorrow. Yes. There's just no other fight to make. This is what it's all about. This is MMA.

You can put that thing anywhere. Co-made event. on a pay-per-view card. That's a fight-night made event. Easy. Book it. Let's get it done. I'm all excited for it.

There needs to be five rounds. Yes. I would love it to be a co-main event for a big pay-per-view or, you know, just a featured fight on a pay-per-view. But the fact that it needs to be five rounds. That's so it's got to be some sort of fight night. And I'm already excited, so that means it's not going to happen. November, November, December, right around there.

November, December. Let Frankie get his leg all. squared away and give crews some more time to get all crews like and we'll do this thing at the end of the year. We'll cap it off before we ring into 2021 and I can't wait for that to happen. But you know what, Casey, let's talk to the people. Let's talk to people. I'm sure there's a lot of thoughts. I'm sure there's a lot of thoughts on tonight. This car was so wild that we could just talk about anything at this point. So, hold on. Do you do, do, do. See, I'm going to throw some ones out there while we get some questions coming so we can already say no i just saw that i just saw

that are they not friends i'm i getting am i getting teams mixed up no no no they're not friends that's different different teams yeah i mean i'm sure they're i'm sure they've trained together that's a few times but we're not there yet yeah i'd like to see mara like mara burses makes a lot more sense okay than frankie edgar versus marab you know what i mean because pay i mean moonio's lost two in a row and I know how our viewers feel about booking fights between someone coming off a win versus somebody coming off a loss. But, you know, if we want to move him up in the rankings, I thought Marab versus Javier Al-Sensea was a good fight. But now I'm thinking maybe Marab versus Pedro Munoz is a good fight. But you know, Marab, he would fight next week if they asked him to.

So then really it's a wild card shot for Maraub because he can literally fight anybody at this point. So, I mean, I'd like to see that at some point. I think Frankie is just at that cruise place right now. He's there with, what was Munoz? Six heading into this fight. Number six? Munoz was actually five, I think. There's five.

So Frankie probably jumps right into the top five of this division right away. So he's not going to go all the way back and fight him or Rob. I just don't see it happening. By the way, while talking about the rankings, I think this card, as it was originally constructed, only had two ranked fighter. I think Edgar and Munoz, please, someone correct me if I'm wrong. I believe Edgar and Munoz were the only ranked fighters on this card. I think even the original co-main event, I don't know if OSP was ranked anymore.

The original main event? I thought that was Romero, you're at Hall? Oh, tonight? No, today. Oh, you're talking about the card as it was this morning or the original card? I don't make me. I'm looking at the topology right now. I don't remember.

Yeah, the original card. Was that this card? Yeah, the original car, we had Romero and Hall. And we also had Waterson versus Hill. Okay, okay. But as it turned out, as of, again, before, it lost two fights as of Friday morning before Wayans, yeah, it was a strange card. Only Edgar was ranked at Featherweight and Munoz was ranked at Bantoweight number five.

So I can understand this from maybe the lack of anticipation for this show. We had 11 switchups from start to finish, almost catching the Shabazian versus Brunson card, which had 12. But it had more than the actual fights that actually took place. So there you go. Yeah. Another, another fine record for the UFC tonight in a bizarre way. Yeah. Got a new question up for you?

Ooh. Martin Resendez. Do you think Frankie Edgar could become the UFC Banimate champion, E. Casey Leiden? No, but yes. I mean, it's Frankie Edgar. You know, it's like, I, did I, did I, did I, did I, did I, did I want him to win tonight? Did he win? probably. I mean, he won

officially, I don't know, but I mean, could Pedro Minios, could he be the UFC? Could he be the UFC Bannonweight champ? Does he have the skills to be a UFC band-in-weight champ? Probably. So, if we're going to go probably, then I think

Frank Yeager is probably right there too. I think, actually, Dominicruz said it well on the broadcast. From the champ to at least number eight or nine, I don't know, I can't, all the top rankings in the UFC Bandonweights, I feel like all those guys on the right night can beat each other.

So that's just, I just, I love the UFC Abandonweight Division right now. I just think it's so incredible. It's so good. Yeah, I love it. It's so good. I mean, do I think he could beat Pieter Jan right now? I mean, maybe. I just, I don't see it happening.

I just don't see it happening. So I think Jan would have to lose the title for that to happen, not saying that he could beat Sterling or, you know, we don't even know if he could beat Dominic Cruz at this point. We'll have to see. That was a good performance, good first fight at 35. Could he become the champion? Sure.

He's Frankie freaking Edgar. You can do whatever he wants. But I don't know. Him versus Jan, that's a tough matchup. But we'll see what happens. A.K., your thoughts on... Look, man. Look, Yerai Favre said that he thought he was doing pretty good against John

before he got caught. So Fabor was doing well against Yon. I bet you... I bet you that Edgar, who was a win-over favor, I bet you that Edgar could definitely beat Piotrion. But it's like we said before, he's in every fight. He's in every fight.

The only, I think, bell-to-bell fight where I was like, oh, man, he's just completely classed, like a fight that he wasn't finished was when he fought to Holloway, where I don't think there was a single round where I was like, Edgar was threatening or had a chance

of stealing into the rounds. I remember it was just a very complete performance for Holloway, very commanding performance. So outside of that, though, there's always all these fights that Edgar's in that you're like, man, is he stealing this round? Did he take this round? And again, you add, again, you only need three.

You get three out of five. That's it. You're the champ, right? So absolutely. I think Jan's fantastic. But yeah, anyone, I mean, if we're talking about this is a segue into the strength of the Bantamweight Division. I'm just, again, you know, I've got these notes here.

I think the division has about maybe 75, 80 guys in it right now. And if you just look at every tier of it, there's just so many exciting names. Like we said, the top 10. You've got legends, again, Dominic Cruz is hanging around, your eye favor is hanging around, Jose Aldo's hanging around. And you guys got Marlon Vera, Sean O'Malley, Song Yadong. Man, there's just so many good names at the top Peter, John, Marlon Rice.

And then you go in the middle, you've got, like, Nathaniel Wood. I'm just reading off random names here, Casey Kenney. Brian Keller, Stamman. Martin Jackson. Simone. Holy cow. And then you keep lower and lower. And I'm just looking at it.

And then you go like even lower tier, like Tyson NAMB is super exciting guy. It's a great. Yeah, it is one of the premier divisions right now. And I think people, it's, are recognizing that. Yeah, we're starting. I mean, Adrian Yannas, who came out the contender series, he could be a legit. 35 or two. We're starting to see some of these young bucks come up and get signed and they could do really well in the UFC too.

So I think 35 from top to bottom is the most complete division in the UFC. Like there's some that are like heavier at the top. Like lightweight's ridiculous. Welter weights ridiculous. Featherweight's ridiculous. But I think if we're talking like if we go like through the top 50, I think Bannam weights the best division in the UFC right now. What a take.

I like it. I like it. What a take. You know, and I'll just say I'm talking about Bannam weights. across the entire globe, all promotions. I think, I mean, like, Bellator's got a great band-in-weight division right now with Patchy Mix and Archiletta and Sergio Pettus, rising with Horaguchi and Kai Ascora.

Yeah, it's just, yeah, it's just, yeah, these little guys are awesome. I love him. That's a love him. And honestly, technically, the one flyweight division are actually 1-35ers, so you want to be serious. But, I mean, no, they're supposed, they're, they're flying. eye weights, but I mean, guys like Demetrius Johnson, he is fighting at 135 right now. So if you want to just add that under the pile, then go ahead. But I don't think. Even 25 is getting, getting interesting

now. I can't always good. I never, I'm ready from Manel Cape. Get me Manel Cape. Speaking of 25, here. From a scale of 1 to 10 being the most excited about it, how would you guys feel about Frankie moving to 125 and fighting a contender? I'm sorry, I believe this says from a scale from 1 to 1,010. And if that's the case... 10 being the most excited about it. No, no. That says from 1 to 110. And let me tell us something, Jeremtoro.

110. Frankie, what's 10 more pounds, man? Get your title shot here. If you win it, great. Otherwise, right there. One more. Drop down. Let's go.

125. You know you want to do it. I feel... He looks shredded at 135. Imagine what he'll look like at 125. He'll look like a god. Get down there and get another time. The first man to win in four...

Oh, no, no. Diego Sanchez already did it, didn't he? Four... Win fights in four divisions? Walter way he did middleweight in his like for the ultimate fighter

oh yeah yeah and then he so he got the one out of the week first did he win at 45 he never won at 45 he didn't win eh he competed yeah he might not

he might not actually got to win so frankie'd be the first one to win uh I know you can do it he'd be like zero percent body fat you know he wouldn't he doesn't that that's not that's not that's not really fun I mean he's probably like

he's probably like six percent body fat at 135 I mean that dude he was completely shredded could he do it? I mean, again, he's Frankie, freaking Edgar. You can do it every once, but I don't know. I mean, if he can do it, he could do it healthy, sure, why not? I don't want to see it right now.

I want to see him fight Dominic Cruz and make it run at 35 first, but he should have been at 35 years ago. And now, you know, he just fought for the, he just fought for the featherweight title last year. It's crazy. Yeah, I love Frank. It's just, oh, Frankie Eggress. You know what? I think, like, I agree with you. Frankie could make $125.

I just don't think it's smart for him. I think he's a type of fighter, because he's a high-volume combination fighter, which means you are going to get hit, you know. So if you throw that much offense out, you're just going to get hit no matter what. And I just don't want Frankie getting hit in the head that much with all the water dehydration that would be necessary to make $125. So stay at $1.35. Frankie's like 38, 37. How was Frankie now? He'll be 39, I believe, in October. Okay. That's kind of what we should be more talking about, his age right now.

So I think with the UFC, I know this isn't the question I asked. This wasn't the question that was asked. But with Frankie's age, I think you have to give him one more victory. And then no matter what happens, you pretty much almost give him the title shot after that. Unfortunately, whoever's the other contenders, because just Frankie's, he just, I don't know. He just, that old and that weight class is just, that's Frankie Eager. He's going to fight to his 45 at a high level.

I mean, if he fights Dominic Cruz and wins, he's getting the next title shot. Yeah. This is no doubt about it. Yeah, no matter. Well, I mean, who else could get it? Sterling's the guy. I mean, Stan Hagan's, well, okay, maybe not.

Mariah, I forgot Marius, but Frankie and Marlon. Yeah. So it would be like, uh, who did a better kind of a thing. Yeah. And I mean, Marlon's fighting Corey Sanhagan. That's not, that's not going to be. an easy fight for him whatsoever, so.

But, yeah, 25. Frankie actually, like, wasn't, like, undersized in this fight at all. Like, it was kind of, like, weird to watch. He almost looked bigger at times, which is weird. Which is not what we swan in a fragment. No, I should say. Yeah, yeah, it was like, oh, like, yeah. Actually, like, from a distance, him and Munoz kind of look the same.

You know, it's like, oh, it's the same general shape of a person. This is weird. From the YouTube comments, Jay Bird wed better, Frankie Eggers should drop down to Adam Wait and fight it an evicta. Ah, that's Galaxy Brain. Galaxy Brain thinking we were all, yes, you're one step ahead. That's some camsoda type stuff right there. Oh my gosh.

Guys, we're missing that right now. Yeah, we got to go. No, no, no, keep watching us. But get another window open to Fightcircircum. That's all right. Fightcircust.com. I'm sorry, what do we have here? MMA ELO.

You travel back to January 2012. I love questions that start like this. Frankie is the lightweight champion. Do you favor him versus a 23-year-old Habib who is yet to make his UFC debut? If not, what does that tell you about Frankie's legacy, AK, this is like your kind of a question right now? Wow. No, this is like the worst kind of question. Okay, let me at least have a second people here to glance at where Habib was in 20K.

So this is before, there's a pre-UFC, that's correct, just before 2. Okay, so he made January 2012. He debuted against Kamal Shallerus and won by Rear Nex Show. So before that, he was 16 and 0 fighting on the Russian scene. No really big names on his early resume. Shabulat Sharmalaya is the only one I see with the Wikipedia entry, and frankly, the only name I recognize. I'm looking at some of these names,

and I think for most people that would be the same. What's the question? Is what I favor... Oh, yeah, absolutely. I would favor, frankly, I'd agree to win the fight around that time. Yeah, of course not. No, no. I think as great as Nirmagamatov is,

possibly the greatest fighter in history. I think like anyone there's growing pains. And he was absolutely an outstanding fighter, probably since probably, I don't know, his fifth or sixth pro fight has been amazing. But there's levels of these things. And I think during him in there was someone like Edgar at the age of 23,

just as physical maturity, mental maturity, all these things. He might have a chance, but I think Fredger at that point, Fredger, I think Fredger at that point was really one of the most difficult puzzles to solve. And just a really tough guy to go.

If we're talking like a five-round fight, yeah, I got to go, I'd go to Edgar all the way. but a very cool question. It is a very cool question because there's so many factors that come into it. Like, if we're talking betting odds, Frankie Edgar would have been the favorite. Probably like, I mean, you would have been a big favorite,

probably a three to one favorite. Plus, like in 2012, the sport wasn't consumed as easily as it is now. Like, we would know about Habib. Like, if Habib, like, if we went back in time, if Habib was like 23 right now and came into the UFC, we would know so much more about him that the odds would probably be a little more.

level. But back then, we didn't really know who Habib was. You probably heard from him like on the underground pages and like on the Sherdog, you know, pages like that. I'm sure his name came up a few times. Like, Timor Valley of like, if Timor Valley of debuted in 2012, no one had any idea who that guy was. But tonight, everybody knew who he was. It was a highly anticipated UFC debut and no one really knew who he was. It's just a different time eight years, eight and a half years later that the sport is just consumed in a much more easy way and a digestible way than it was in 2012. But very interesting question.

Casey, I'd love to get your thoughts on this. Oh, no, Frankie would destroy. 2012, Habib, Frankie would destroy him. And that's why those fights don't happen. You know, it's like, yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, yeah. I mean, at that time, Habib was, you know,

he was, you know, grinding out decisions, winning very close decisions against Gleason T-Bowell. Yeah. You know, and it's, I mean, that's what's, That was great. That's what's been great about, Habib. We've watched him grow, has this like prelim almost, he was in the dark fights before they were like, you know, like it was like it was a fight that you can only watch on UFC.com after the pay-per-view was done, you know. Facebook.

Yeah, Facebook fights. True TV or whatever used to be. So fun question. Frankie, time travel, Frankie beats up, Habib. Yeah, for sure. I love that question. That's a between the links. Knock our wrong question.

Before you read this one, I see someone say, is this Frankie Edgar overrated? Okay, so this person's blocked. Okay, sorry, go on. Yeah, that's removed from the comments. I'm sorry, you brought it up. Go ahead. Jedd Michoudnishu's Burner account? All right, you're done.

Could be. Tristan Gordet, what's your thought about Joe Selecki? He made that win look easy. I'm a big Joe Selecky guy. I've been following him for a very long time. He's a guy that's gone through some ups and downs. He's had some, you know, confidence issues over the year. but he seems to have really gotten it together.

Trains at some really good gyms. He's moved kind of his life to North Carolina. So he trains with John Salter, he chains with Jimo at Jim O. So, I mean, he's got some really good training partners. He's about to become a dad. His wife's been like super supportive. I mean, this is hit the story. The Joe Selecki story is really fascinating.

This is a guy who went pretty much all in on the sport, living in like studio apartments around the country, just trying to make this thing work. and his wife was just like, go after it, go get it. And now that he got on the contender series and got a contract, it was like the investment paid off. One of the nicest guys in the sport. And it was really interesting watching the Matt Wyman fight

because Joe Selecki actually talked a little trash in that fight, which was very unlike him. And he even admitted that. He's like, yeah, you probably won't ever see that for me again tonight. But, man, Austin Hubbard is a tough, durable guy. He made, you know, he beat, he basically knocked Max Roshkopf, like one of the highly touted. prospects at 155, knocked him out of the UFC, that guy may never get another shot.

It was just a big win. It was a huge win. Plus he had COVID-19, which is why Max Roshkoff got that fight with Hubbard to begin with. So he recovered from that. Yeah, he's got a lot going on right now. So I think Joe is an exciting guy to watch at 55, build him up a little, you know, keep building them up the way you're building them up, like the Wyman's to the Hubbard. And now we just, we take that next step.

No need to bump him up into like crazy top 15 fights just yet. because 55 is just so loaded anyways. There's a lot of different kinds of matches for him. I think put him up, put him in there with another good quality striker that can finish the fight on the feet, see how he handles there. But you look pretty darn good tonight. I would have given him a bonus if we're being honest. I don't know if you guys have your any thoughts on Mr. Selecki after tonight.

Fine, Mike. We will make sure to include Joe Selecki on, onto the next one on Monday. All right, all right. I get it. He's on the main card. He's in it. Your hard sell of Selecki has won us all over. I will say I had picked Hubbard

only because I didn't remember much about Selecky but I shouldn't have discounted a win over Matt Weiman I know again it was I think it was Wyman's first fight in a while and it's not okay it's been a while it's not Wyman in his prime

but again that's an experienced really skilled fighter so for someone to go in there and beat him and beat him convincingly not to be discounted so I definitely overlooked that while making this fight pick yeah a very talented guy

and he looked great and the other thing that was great was that he stood out with the way he won. You know, fighting, taking back control like that and still being aggressive is a really difficult thing to do. You know, back control is pretty much, it's supposed to be anyway, the most dominant, one of the most dominant, maybe the most dominant position you can get in an MMA. But there's a lot of rules that, you know, get in the way, but obviously you can't hit people in the back of the head. So, So, like, he was just really smart about how he attacked from there.

And it was, it was one of the more unique fights of the night because of, he was able to hold that position for so long and just gradually break, hovered down, and eventually get the choke. that's one thing that's really, really important. Not just getting the win and not just getting 2 and O in the OFC, but fighting in such a way that I think if someone not familiar with him, again, even including myself, saw that fight. They'd remember like, oh, that's the guy. That's the guy who backpacked the other guy and beat the crap out of him, right?

I mean, that's huge. Casey, you're a grappling fan. I am. Oh, beautiful submission, beautiful analysis by, beautiful analysis by Dominic Cruz to explain how he was just went step by step by step. almost like as if he had a coach in his ear going okay now do this wrap his leg do this and here's in the way the way dominic explained why hubbard couldn't get out of it or things like that which was just really good and um no i honestly as far as like high level submission high level

finish yeah select he should have gotten a bonus that's i mean but uh can't get bonuses everyone i guess yeah yeah you can yeah you can yeah you can't yeah you literally can yeah but um we're talking about like evenly contested matchups on paper. This is one of the ones that stuck out on the car to beat. This is my under the radar fight of the night. And Slackie delivered in a big way. I thought the fight would be a little more competitive. But Joe said, nope, you know, my wife's supposed to have a baby.

I need to get the hell out of here. So let's go. Yeah, I got really no, really no hard, no predictions on how high, you know, Seleki can go. But clearly he's an exciting fighter and he's UFC caliber. And I'm excited to see what's next for him. some interesting thoughts from Dana White at the press conference. He said Pedro Munoz won the fight without a doubt.

Dana White also said that Tony Ferguson is probably fighting Dustin Pori next. Where does this have been Michael? Oh, what does that happen to Michael? I hope that's on the October card. That has to be on the October card. What about that? What about that Michael Chandler tweet of the little diamond? What's going on of that?

I'm playing the game. Michael Chandler's playing the game. I like it. I respect it. I'm digging it. I'm digging it. I'm digging it should do. while we're looking for another question

Can I talk a little bit about Daniel Rodriguez? Sure. A little Daniel Rodriguez. Yeah, go. I don't think there's going to be any Daniel Rodriguez questions. I just want to say, man, this guy, if he fights again and wins again before the end of the year, it sounds weird because, you know, he's kind of low profile. He's probably one of the, like, in the running for, I would say, like, top five,

one of the best fighters of the year, just in terms of productivity and in cage success because he gets thrown to, like, I would say, maybe a tougher fight with Dwight Grant, The Takashi Stato is very good. But similar style match, another, another striker. And that's a difficult, you know, I don't care who. I know both guys were,

had to change your opponents, but still a difficult scenario. Anyway, but he wins a wild brawl, maybe one of the best rounds of the year, improves the 3 and O in the UFC. In his debut, he submitted to Means, and then he won a unanimous decision over at Gabe Green.

So 3 and O in the UFC so far in the calendar year 2020, that's really, really good. So I think we'll be hearing a lot more about Daniel Rodriguez by the end of the year, especially depending if he gets a, just a slightly more high profile opponent in his next one. I don't want to throw that high up the rankings.

And I'm sure we might talk about them on Monday, Mike. But yeah, everyone, shout to us Dan Rodriguez, man. Really, really impressive start to his UFC career. So he's the second guy to go to three and out of this year, right? Yes. Yusuf Zalal was the first. Who was the other? Yusuf Zalal was the first.

Oh, yeah. Yuselal has got another fight booked, crazy animal. Another, man, another blue chipper. In that case, it's crazy. Yes. Yeah, there's a lot. Oh, sorry. There's a law of Rarwegas.

I mean, I want to say, fight of the year, but at least breakout fight of the year. You know, just like a guy I've never heard of, and all of a sudden, maybe you could have four victories in this year, which is, you know, insane. I kind of was thinking Kevin Holland fight. I know they tried to book that one before. Oh, yeah. I'd love to see that.

I think Holland's got something coming up next month. I haven't been able to get that other name yet. I have an idea, perhaps, but that hasn't been announced just yet. How was the Cam Soda Fight Circus? Ongo. It is ongoing. And I don't have an update on this, but I'm just going to read Jedmishu's last few tweets. Oh, please do.

Man versus woman grappling back with a blue belt versus a novice, or as we most people call it, every single night and any jits gym around the world. What are your preferred pronouns, God or Nighthawk? That tiny shredded dude is going to F this fifth. fat guy, F up this fat guy. And I love that MMA Twitter is watching this carnival show. You don't see us all gathering to watch random jungle fight

cards or whatever, but you unashamedly promote some freak show fights and everyone tunes in. What a magical group we are. Who tweeted that? That's Jed. Those are Jed's last like three tweets. I thought someone criticizing Jedd because I was going to say, sadly jungle fights are not very readily, really readily

available for us over in North America. Otherwise, I would love to watch us. But no, again, yeah, Fight Circus.com. Free people, by the way. This is free. Make sure you have your ad blocker on because I'm just going to want, make sure you have your ad blocker on. And if you have a sensitive palette, be very careful for the imagery that will bombard you when you enter the Cam Soda page.

For anyone who does know, Cam Soda is a adult webcam video company who happens to be helping to promote and host this MMA event. But yes, a lot of craziness coming. I don't know if I mentioned, I think I mentioned on the preview show. that we almost got, according to the Cam Soda VP, we almost got a fighter fighting a wild animal and two women, two women fighting a man. So that was either not allowed or they just couldn't find a wild animal in time

that could and get the medicals cleared. So there you go, there's one, there's a wild animal right there. Yeah, we're getting it. Yeah, yeah, don't change channels. We got animal versus man right here. Circus, too. Fight circus too. But, yeah, Wild Show.

And I always encourage people to expand their horizons when it comes to MMA. So hopefully there's a way to replay the show for anyone who missed it, including myself. I did not get a chance to watch much of it. But otherwise, keep your eyes, guys, on social. There'll be tons of clips and pictures floating around from Fight Circus, and you can live vicariously through that. And just one more warning. If you're going to watch Fight Circus, Incognito window.

Private browsing, yeah. It's simply not safe for work, not safe. if you have a family or children or a loved one or a wife or or husband that you care about, don't let them know you're watching unless they're well aware of your, that you're a deviant who loves combat sports in all its forms. That'll be a tough. No work on. No work on.

You're not watching your work laptop. Yes. Complete history. Like, delete that history. I mean, I get the laptop on the left and I got the other computer on the straight ahead. So we'll go to the straight ahead computer. Switching promotions. The NEMCOFs went over Bader.

Phenomenal. Phenomenal. I'm not like, I think I'm going to pass this moron to you guys because this will be heavily discussed on between the links on Tuesday, I'm sure. But I mean, phenomenal win. It was a great win. Not a lot of people saw that coming unless you are really paying attention to Bellator and really paying attention to Bademe Nemcoff and what he's been able to do. that was as exclamation pointy as you could possibly get to become the the 205 pound champion of the world.

Ryan Bader now just the heavyweight champion. All the talk about Bader being the best light heavyweight in the world, maybe he bought into it a little bit too much. But I think, honestly, the one thing I will say about it, I think the fact that he hadn't fought at 205 in such a long time really affected him. Like the cut and getting back down to 205, I think that really took its toll on him. What did you guys think of the performance?

Case, I'll start with you on this one. I picked Ryan Bader to win by decision. Actually, I thought very highly of Nimcoff. I just thought this was such a jump-up in competition that, but Ryan Bader would have to go to kind of the old boring Ryan Bader in a sense that he would grind out that decision victory. But, man, when Bader took Nimcov down and the fact that Bader eventually got up because he just couldn't do anything on the grounds in NMcov,

and Nimcov's jab and the way Nimcov was making Bader move backwards, which I thought John McCarthy did a great job explaining how, like, oh, Bader is an amazing fighter, except when he moves backwards. You make Bader move backwards, and all of a sudden he just becomes a dude. And Nimcoff was able to do that, and when NEMCOB did the Bader, only the highest level guys have been able to put him out like that on their feet. And I don't think Bader was sleeping on NMCO, I just think, I'm just thinking we just got, the world got introduced to another premier A-level great light heavyweight.

That's what happened. Okay. Here's the list of people who have knocked out Brian Bader. Leota Machita, Grover Tashira, Anthony Johnson, and Vadim Nemkov. That is a hell of a list of guys to join. So good for Vadim Nemkov. I don't know if Beltaur could have done a better job of building this guy up. I mean, look, he's from the Fedor school.

He's Fador's protege. So, you know, he's not going to be a big promo guy. He's not going to say any wild stuff. So, you know, you kind of have to just match him up their way and right way and just let him do his thing and hope for the best. But so he goes undefeated in Beltor before facing Bader. And really good names here. Future PFL heavyweight champion, Philippe Bay-Lens.

So obviously it wasn't a big deal at the time, but now we know it's not a terrible fighter, an okay name. Liam McGarry, former champion. he beats him. Phil Davis, former champion. Hafeel Carvalio, former middleweight champion. So they did all the right things in putting this kind of position to be a credible

light heavyweight contender. And yeah, there's a reason that not everyone, like again, I think a lot of us pick Bader, probably the majority of us, because a lot of respect for the champ. But I also saw a lot of people saying Nemcov could absolutely win this fight. It was not like he has no chance thing. This was a very even matchup.

And a lot of people buying into the narrative of whoever wins this fight, whether it be Beda or Nemcov, now that the light heavyweight picture is so murky in the UFC are they the best? Now, I don't know if I'd subscribe to that. He only has two losses and both to good names. He's lost to current UFC light heavyweight now, Yuri Prohachka, who we all love, of course,

and is a future, possibly a future champion. And Carl Albrexson, who's a very, very strong veteran. Those are both in Risen. So he's only lost to veterans. So how would he stack up against the best of the best in the UFC? I don't know, but I haven't seen anything in NEMCO's performances to think that he wouldn't be a top 10 light heavyweight.

and, again, someone who can contend for a title within two or three fights. So if Belator wants to start pushing him as the best light heavyweight in the world, I say go for it. I think it's a fun thing to do. And frankly, at this point, there's no really, you know, tangible way to contest it. So go for it, Belator. Yeah, and then you can fight Corey Anderson and we'll see what happens. Right.

One more. Wait, wait, wait, wait, one more quick. Can we talk about how cute Fador looked as a coach? You just, like, it was just so adorable. And Fador, maybe the greatest heavyweight of all time. he literally looked smaller than Nimcoff standing next to him. So I just think I was just weird. Like, is Nimcoff wearing like platforms?

What's going on? But sorry. Nepcov is also a tank though. Yes. I mean, all these fighters look great at wands, but Nemcoff looked like, looked power. Like he looked at find the, find the pictures folks.

He looks shredded. Yeah. We'll probably roll for like 10 more minutes, I think. Sure. Because there's a lot, but I do want to read this tweet, one more fight circus tweet from a fellow Canadian a.k. you know him very well, Mr. Craig Allen.

The tweet reads, quote, probably just picked up a litany of viruses watching fight circus. My goodness, this is ridiculous. Guy gets knocked out fighting Lethway, getting tended to by a person, and the ring announcer picks him up and puts him in a corner. So that's what you could be watching right now, folks. Ring announcers with playing sort of medical professional here,

announcing the winner and then picking up the losing. and placing him in the corner safely. That is martial arts, guys. That is the heart, the spirit of martial arts. I love it. What else we got? We'll find another question. Got out again, somebody post-fight interview stuff to transcribe.

This is kind of a, someone who's got more of a general broad question. Discuss this while I find some other questions. Please. Most underappreciated MMA champion of all time. He fought tonight. His name's Frankie Edgar. I don't know. I should.

But look at the very next question. Demetrius Johnson. Is Frank Andrew rated? No. I thought I blocked this. Watch the button not working. Shouldn't be hitting it so hard. Demetrius Johnson?

Demetius Johnson's definitely up there. Underrated? Underappreciated? Underappreciated? Underappreciated. Frank Shamrock. Maybe. And a lot of that's the UFC's fault.

Yeah, yeah. We're being honest. That wasn't by accident. Sylvia. Frank Shamrock is it was a great. Tim Sylvia is up there. Boy, and so disrespected now, too, right? Like, it's amazing how much he's the butt of somebody.

Look, look, Tim Silvio was never the most, like, impressive-looking guy. But there was a time when he was a very legitimate heavyweight champion. I know it wasn't during, like, this boom period of the UFC. But he was a very legitimate champion. I remember when Randy Coutour came back, there was a thought, like, oh, Randy, like, it's an interesting fight, but people thought, like, Tim's going to kill him. Like, he's so big, and it had been so dominant up to that point.

And then that's why I made the way to one of the, you know, one of the most inspirational and memorable moments when Randy beat him. So Tim's ever was legitimate. It is a shame that he's become the butt of, like, a lot of jokes looking back, which, again, it's just really, really unfair, I think, to his legacy. The maniac. Yep. It's a good question, though.

That is a good. Did the Talia fight have ended in round one? That's a great question. I'm glad this question was asked by. Pittsburgh Pirates baseball fan can appreciate that. I'm a Red Sox fan, but, you know, power to you.

Should that fight have ended in round one? Wild. I mean, it's hard to say because he kept going. Like, usually when the body shuts down, not once, but twice, that's enough for a referee to say, okay, that's enough.

But the way the fight ends, ended in round two when Taliaf was clearly defending himself a lot better than Jones was defending himself in that spot. He did land a take down at the end of the round, which meant that he was okay and the referee kind of looked like a genius. But the way that fight ended, I'll be honest, part of my French. It sucked. It sucked. Yeah. I'll add on to that for a second way. You can continue, but I just want to say, should it have ended in round one? I don't think so. And my other thing I was to say, maybe it also shouldn't have ended in round two. Correct. Right. Sorry, Mike. Yeah, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, okay, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we got, we got a comeback of the year. We got one of the upsets of the year. So cool. I mean, we got that. But just kind of seeing it, like, at first, I think everybody on Twitter was like, holy crap. Like, I can't believe that just happened.

What a comeback. Come back in the year. And then you watch the replays and you're like, ah, he, he was fine. Like, he was hurt. He was stunned, but he was still fighting. He was getting back to speed. He was through Chris Tione on the ground. He had him wrapped up, right?

to go. I hate it out of that fight ended, but it was a lot of fun. I guess, and good, good for you, Jones. Hell yeah. It's not going to wait from Trevin Jones. No, no, no, no. Awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Good, good. Who's it. I guess, I guess, I guess this, this is kind of, maybe the better question. Who would you pick if they had a rematch? Oh, I don't know. I mean, it's got to be tall. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. Valley, Valia, yeah. The question on the screen on the tell you. Yeah. I pick Valley of, yeah. I, I pick Valley of going in. I, I, I, and And the Valley, again, looked very good in that first round. He looked awesome. Yeah.

There's nothing, like, he came in with a lot of hype. There's nothing that happened in this fight. We're like, oh, why was he so, no, if you watched this, like, oh, wow, this is why. Oh, okay, I get it. This is the, he's got a big deal that you look incredible. I've never seen a more effortless question mark kick in my entire life. It was just easy. It's just easy.

He sets it up with, like, kicks of the body. And he's like, oh, yeah, you're going to block the body? Boom. Did he? Like, nothing. It was, like, throwing a jab to him. At some point, I saw he jumped off the cage and did like an elbow or something. I was like, what was that?

And like, in like, I noticed that. And it was like reading a promo, so they didn't even like talk about. I'm like, what? Rewind. Rewind the tape. I was like, what was that? I was like, don't forget the contender series is back this Tuesday night. We got a Superman elbow off the cage.

That was a wild fight. It was, it was. Definitely want to see Timor back in there as soon as possible. want to say, you know, and Jones too. Gridwin for Jones, glad he got the 50 Gs. What a story that was. Coming from Guam on just days notice to take that fight when probably there weren't a lot of people that were going to take that fight. But he stepped in there and did it and got a win. So good on him. We're getting a few questions about next week. So. All right. Let's do it. Well, Rackage, K.O. Anthony Smith next week.

Shaking like the magic eight ball. there is a chance. There is a high-level chance of violence in that fight. That's a fun fight at 205. I like it a lot. I think he's probably more likely to get a KO than Anthony Smith is probably likely to get a KO in that fight. But who knows?

That's a wild one at 205 where this fight can end in 30 seconds or could go the full 15. Who the hell knows? Yeah, it sounds pretty simple to say. If you think if you think Rock Hitch is going to, well, I'll put this. Actually, maybe it's not that. If you think Rockets is going to win, I think that you should pick Rockets by K.O.

Let me put that way. If you think, Smith, I think, has maybe a few more ways to win. I think if you think it's going to be Rockich, it'll be our highlight real Kio. But I do think it is going to finish. I haven't quite decided who yet. But I don't think it's going to distance. I like that it's a three-round fight, too. I know people are kind of p-out about that, and they were like, why is this a three-round fight?

Well, because this wasn't the original main event. And once you sign a piece of paper saying you're fighting this many rounds on this date, it has to stay that way. I mean, we just saw the same thing with Calvin Cater and Zabit in November. They were scheduled to be the co-main event in Boston. When they originally signed, that was the co-main event. So it just carried over to the next month. Was there some tomfoolery there?

Perhaps. I'm not going to say there wasn't. But there you go. That's why that happened. That's why this is happening. They won't need five rounds anyway. It's just like when they say you'll pay for the whole seat, but you'll only need the eight.

You know, that sort of thing. So don't worry, people. It's probably going to end to finish. Three rounds, five rounds will make a difference. Wow. Casey, this is- Casey. Casey.

Let's talk Olivera versus Darius. Who in Oliver's camp thought this was a good idea? Is that booked? Is that official? That's a go, I believe. Yeah, that's a go. Man, I didn't think this fight would get made because I thought of Chandler out there.

Well, actually, I saw this out. I saw this, you know, out on the Twitter sphere. So I thought, oh, okay, Chandler will probably get Poirier or Ferguson or something. But then, yeah, if this is happening, then, man, doesn't leave Chandler too many options as far as the top, top guys. But the problem of Oliver, no one, I don't think anyone wants to fight him. That's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, he wants to continue fighting. And if he's, he's, he's got to take on whoever. Who in front?

When was that time Oliver fought someone in front of him in the rankings? I mean, do you even... Kevin Lee? Kevin Lee, I guess. He probably was ahead of him. Was he? I don't, maybe not. I'll have to, I'd have to look at, I could check my, let me check my nose.

Yeah, Kevin Lee's still nine right now. Was Kevin Lee coming off the Gillespie? Or am I forgetting, am I mixing? Yeah, he was coming off the Gillespie win, but he was at 70 before. He had lost a bunch in a row. Maybe. I don't know. Yeah, honestly, I think this is like the only option.

Yeah, I think all of everyone wants to stay busy. And DeBronk, yeah, I think DeBronk, like, DeBronx is kind of like that guy, like, you could tell me he was the best, he may be, I want to say the best lightweight in the world, but he could be a top three, top four lightweight. I'll be like, okay. I just, we just haven't got an opportunity to see it recently, you know. Olivera was 13 and he fought when he fought Kevin Lee Kevin Lee was number eight.

So just recent. But before that, definitely it had been, I don't know how long before he was just kind of, Jared Gordon was behind him, Nick Lentz, David Tamer, Jim Miller, literally everyone before Kevin Lee during this current win streak, definitely behind him in the rankings. So I'm afraid to say, guys, he might be headed down the Tony Ferguson path where he might win

eight, nine, 10, 11 exciting fights. and every time you watch him, you wonder, why is he not next in line for a tell-o shot? So, I mean, in some ways, that can be a good thing. Look at Tony Ferguson, one of the most popular fighters in the UFC, but also in some ways it can be a sort of a tragic thing. You just never get that undisputed title shot. So fingers crossed, hopefully it doesn't quite go that way,

and he has his success of Tony Ferguson, but gets that undisputed title shot sooner or later. But Darius, yeah, another tough fight. And if he wins it, there's honestly even no guarantees that he rises that much higher. So I kind of agree with the premise of the question. question like yeah is this a good idea i don't know yeah i just think he had no choice just take this fight or we're just not to in any fights really i will say this about charles oliverr what how many

times he's fought in the ufc alex like 20 or something times about 20 yeah about 20 so he's fought 20 times that means i've literally no sat in front of my tv watched him way in interviewed him listened to his post fight interview watched him fight and if you were going to tell you're going to ask me So tell me about Charles. What do you know about him? I know very little other than he wears glasses sometimes. You know, and to me, that's the problem right now of Charles Oliver. Sure, sure.

It has nothing to do of how he fights in the cage. It's just the connection to the fans, like, even to the media. Like, we just don't know him. And that matters. I mean, we talk with Frankie Edgar, like, everyone's like, oh, I don't want Frankie getting knocked out because we have an emotional attachment to Frankie. I don't have any of that attachment to Oliverer. that hurts him right now as far as in terms of moving up the rankings.

And that's what matters in this price fight in game, unfortunately. His next fight will be is 27th UFC. Oh, 27th. He's almost at 30. He'll become like the, you know, eventually like the probably, I don't know, by that time, like the fifth or sixth fighter to have 30 UFC fights. And like you said, Casey, it is crazy that, you know, there's almost that test you make, they say,

about like compelling fictional characters. How long can you go without describing them, with having to mention what they look like. And with him, you might get like two or three characteristics in before you start saying, you know, for you get to superficial things. So, yeah, it is, it is strange that we don't know a lot about him. That's a bad, bad dude.

Yeah, he's on that. That we know. Yeah, he's on that list of fighters where, I don't think he's there yet, but we go, oh, the best, best UFC fighters who never fought for a title or never won a title or, you know, never. But he hasn't even been in a number more contender fight, I don't even think, you know? so like that's what I mean. And to me, the way he's fighting right now and at his age,

he's a Hall of Famer. He's one of those low-key Hall of Famers that would never be a feature, that may never be on a featured pay-per-view, you know? I just think it's, yeah, it's a weird one. Yeah. He's not the case, yeah, for sure. So there you go. He gets a big step up, or Darius gets a big step up,

which leaves my two options from Michael Chandler still very much alive. Michael Chandler versus Paul Felder or Michael Chandler versus Dan Hooker. Both of those fights. Oh, yeah, Dan Hooker, forgot. Scratchy your right, right. I think Dan Hooker might be the leader right now. Yep. All right, we'll do one more.

Sure. One more, one more. We've got some bell at short questions, but we've already answered your bellatory questions. You weren't paying attention. Oh. La, la, la. Yeah. Toppa.

this isn't the question, but I think it's worth talking about. I think we know what the question kind of is. Yeah, his response in podcast, O'Malley, is delusional. Okay, so pretty, I don't know if I was kind of surprised to hear this reaction. Maybe I shouldn't have been. Maybe it's just, maybe I'm just a naive person, aka and Casey, but I was kind of surprised to see that, especially when he went on social media after the loss and said he was humbled. I was like, okay, that's a pretty good attitude considering how that all went down.

And, you know, there was controversy early. And I think a few hours later we realized there wasn't much controversy at all. Marlon Vera got a clean win. And he's doing the media rounds. He was on what the heck. And I thought he had a fantastic interview talking about the win and what he wants and everything that led up to it and the trash talk that O'Malley, not even O'Malley himself. It was O'Malley's team and his coaches that really got to Vera. So to hear him come out and say what he said afterwards,

said, you know, let's look we're going to be at in the next two years. I'm going to be a champion, and Marlon Verre's just going to be a journeyman. I was like, are we setting up a rematch here? Is that what's happening? Are we going to see O'Malley Vera 2, AK? Is that what we're going to see? I hope not right away. I wouldn't mind seeing it somewhere down the road, but right away, let's not do this.

Let's not do this. And regarding the humble thing, I don't know if you, how much of the podcast you listen to or read the transcript of Mike, but he said that humbled post was an effing joke so everyone commenting stupid S word I'm not humbled so even that I do think some of it is part of it

for the show he's doing the podcast he's with his coach and of course his buddy Tim Welsh so you know you've got a friend a little bit you're gonna put on a bit

of a personality like you said Tim it was Tim that was doing a lot of the trash talking that Vera was was not happy about so it's not like

it's not like O'Malley's gonna you know take a more diplomatic approach when they're sort of just chumming it up And again, like I said, just doing their show for the fans. So I think a little bit of it is a front. A little bit of it is certainly immaturity. But and a little bit is that natural sort of fighter bravado that's not going to want,

that's going to want to give just a little bit of credit to their opponent, but not a lot. So I don't know. I don't know if people were disappointed or really upset with his comments. It didn't bother me that much, but maybe because I didn't expect better, as harsh as that sounds. But either way, I wouldn't judge him too harsh on these things he says in his podcast and sort of the reactions after a loss. His first career, a loss, by the way, for a young guy. So I'm not excusing him, his potentially dickish behavior,

for lack of a better term. But I'll also understand people who just see it and kind of shrug it off and go like, whatever is trash talk. So I don't encourage it, but I didn't think it was the worst thing. As a positive presence here, I will say that I don't blame Sean O'Malley for doing what he did because he's actually pretty smart doing what he did coming out and saying that because we were waiting to hear from him. He was smart to do it on his own podcast and not do it anywhere else.

I thought that was smart. And he knew that every single MMA website on the planet was going to write about it. So he knew what he was doing. You knew exactly what he was doing. And now Vera was getting the media shine and it was all about Marlon Vera. And then Sean O'Malley just comes out of the woodwork, does his own podcast like he normally does, reacts to the situation. And more people are talking about Sean O'Malley now. Clickety click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, clickety click.

Thanks, Sean O'Malley. So, as you can see, that's why I'm not going to judge it to harshly. We're all part of the same. We're all part of the same sphere here. People same fight sphere, you might say. Copyright. Oh, no, wait, I can. I burn not.

Hold on, never mind. Okay. Any thoughts on this? It was weird. I was surprised, but, hey, he's a prize fighter. He, he's, I've saw some other clips, you know, they basically admitted this is a persona, you know, or they're playing, or he's kind of playing himself up even bigger. So, you know what?

But I've always said this, too. That's why I love MMA. That's why I love working in this sport because I don't have to like all these guys, but I just love the fact that they're all so different. And there's no Sean O'Malley. There's no other Sean O'Malley. There's no other Cheetos. There's no other Frankie Eggers.

Like there's just so many types of guys in here and guys and girls in this sport that, you know, the amount of personalities never ends in this crazy world and crazy sport. So if he wants to make ass of himself or whatever, go for it, man. No, it doesn't matter. You're still punching a dude for money in a cage, you know, at the end of the day. Yeah, and he was dancing in his weed robe. Leg seems to be okay. I mean, I think he still needs an MRI, but it seemed to be moving all right.

He was doing that dance. What a dick move. I love it, though. I was like, God, what an asshole. That would be like, that would almost be like DC the next day. like at archery range, like, pull at bull's eyes or something. Like, like, oh. The doctor's office reading the letters of his bad eye.

Um, um, um, Molly did make one really great point aimed at, uh, who, who, who said, uh,

he shouldn't have, he shouldn't have taken the stretcher or he should have limped out. And O'Malley was just like, why, if you were injured, why would you, why would you voluntarily limp out of a cage? Like,

take the stretcher, like, why would you even risk, uh, you know, aggravating injury. So I thought that, that actually that comment was very,

It was very accurate. Yeah, that was stupid by Askeran. I don't know what that was about. Well, to ignore that tough guy bull crap. Take the stretcher, all right. It's not a big deal. Geez. All right.

I think we've done what we need to do here. I think so. We've talked some fights. And it was an interesting card. And now we're going to do it again next week. Headlined by Anthony Smith versus Alexander Rackich. I just want to pull up that card real quick because I, honestly, at this point, with what we've seen over the last three or four,

weeks. I mean, this card, you know, when they say like card subject to change, this one is probably subject to change because we've seen it far too often here. Oh, we got Robbie Lawler back. I forgot about that. It gets Neil Magni and the co-main event. Gian Kim versus Alexa Grasso, Magamette Ancalaia versus Ion Kutalaba rebooked. But you know who is? Oh, sorry. Maki Patolo versus the debuting Impa Kisang and I. Mike. We were supposed to. a week from now, we were supposed to be seeing the return of Ryan Hall, okay? Nothing, nothing you say is going to make me feel better.

Okay. I hadn't thought about that until. We're both to get there, okay? Zach Cummings versus Alessio de Chirico. Alex Casares, Bruce Leeuroy versus Giga Chacace. That's fun. Emily Whitmire's back. It's Pollyanna Biana.

Sean Brady versus Christian Aguilera should be a lot of fun. And the return of Hannah Cifers taking on Mallory, Martin. Hannah Seifers fighting for the eighth time this year. Like Mike, oh my goodness. Right? What a war. So we were supposed to have Jeff Neal versus Neil Magh. We were supposed to have Zabit, Magabed Sharapot versus Yayaeur Rodriguez in the main event. And yes, Ricardo Lama's versus Ryan Hall. Oh, watch your mind. And the people's main event. They're still trying to keep Ricardo on the card. I don't know if it's going to happen, but they're trying. Why did you

remind me about Neil on Neil? Ah, I almost got Neil on Neil. I almost got Neil on Neil and Ryan Hall next week. So it's going to be fun. Yeah, we got a contender series. No, no Neil on Neil. We get good contender series stuff. By the way, speaking to contender series, what the heck this week?

We're going to have our first contender series winner on the actual show. Cheyenne Bays is going to be on. I'm very excited to talk to her. I think she's probably been, there's been some great performances, but I would say as far as like who stood out and who got like the most shine thus far, it's probably her after that win on Tuesday. So she'll be on.

We get a lot of female fighters coming on, what the heck this week. So look forward to that. Julia Obulah will also be joining us. So it should be a good lineup. But we're getting out of here. For AK, for Casey Liden, I am Mike Heck. Thank you for watching. UFC on ESPN15 is in the books.

Me and AK will be back on Monday to match, make all this stuff. We'll talk about them between the links on Tuesday. So we haven't officially put the bow out of yet, but at least tonight we are. So we'll see you. Have a good night, everybody. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.