MMA Fighting - UFC Vegas 17: Thompson vs. Neal Post-Fight Show

Episode Date: December 20, 2020

With UFC Vegas 17—as well as the 2020 calendar year for the promotion—in the books, MMA Fighting’s Mike Heck, Jose Youngs, Alexander K. Lee and E. Casey Leydon recap the top storylines coming out of Saturday night’s event at the APEX, including Stephen Thompson’s dominant unanimous decision win over Geoff Neal in the welterweight headliner. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow José Youngs: @JoseYoungs Follow Alexander K. Lee: @AlexanderKLee Follow E. Casey Leydon: @ekc Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. We're live, pal. Well, no one's walking because we didn't tweet it out. Investigate, AK, investigate. I'm speaking for no one right now. Well, for those of you who are here, welcome to the final post-fight show of 2020. UFC Vegas 17 in the books. It capped off with Wonderboy Thompson, vintage Wonderboy.

sweeps the scorecards, defeats Jeff Neal, the unanimous decision. And with that, the 2020 calendar year for the UFC has come to an end. And we're going to talk all about it right now. Thanks for joining us one last time. I am Mike Peck. Being joined by Alex Keeley. I know he's busy right now.

Jose Young's is multitasking as well. And E. Casey Liden, producer, extorted air. I'm just going to copy. He's got sleeves now. Yeah, sleeves. It's cozy. So different. Got his Randy's donut sweatshirt on.

Just making life look grand. But Casey, let's begin with you. One question first. Casey, do you have a Randy's donut shirt on because you like Randy's donuts? Because he lives next to you. A little of both. Why not?

Okay. That's a good answer. It's right down the street. I can throw a rock at it. On story. Before we get into the fight talk, my dad's, one of my dad's,

like, co-employees, his name is Randy. It had a Randy's donuts poster. on his wall for 20 years and I thought it was a fictional place until the first time I ever went to LA. I like it. Destiny. Everything comes full circle in this crazy life of ours. But Casey, let's begin with you since we got some multitasking going on amongst the diagonals over here.

Stephen Thompson, a lot of people I've been seeing turn back the clock. This is vintage wonder boy. And one thing I did want to mention is this is like a tale of two cards the last couple of weeks. And one of the things that really stuck out to me was last week we were writing obituaries, so to speak, for JDS and Jacare Sosa. This week we got Jose Aldo and Stephen Thompson coming through with huge wins. So before we get to the people, because you guys are going to dictate all of this, since it's the last one we're doing in 2020, your thoughts overall on Thompson's performance to cap off the night and the year, Casey. Oh, and the year. Wow, that's a big question.

For the night, though, the main event, yeah, Steve on the boy, Tom. I was super impressed. I picked Neil to win this fight. I thought his aggression and being in the small cage, I thought that would be a big advantage to him. And, man, Wonderboy was just, he was very impressive. Man, you can tell he did get caught up in the small cage a couple of times. He tripped a little bit.

You know, every time he took, pretty much every time he took a big shot, it was because he just ran out of room to go back. And, but man, just he still got his reflexes. He still hits hard enough to, you know, no to threaten for it to be a significant threat. He's still tough as heck. He had that big cut in his face. His knee was all blown up or something.

And like, and there were moments in that fight where I go, oh, okay, this is the part. This is the part with Stephen Wonderboy. He goes, everything goes downhill. It just never happened, 25 minutes. And man, just great performance. Vintage Stephen Wonderboy Thompson. And man, well, there are a lot of high fives in that. Oh, my God.

I think that was like, oh, let's. Oh, yeah. Okay, yeah. All the punching and kicking was great. there must have been, okay, that had to be the most high fives ever in a fight. I don't know who does that, those significant strikes for high fives, but that was a, I felt like Bisbing was about to kind of flip over his chair. Actually, I felt like, I felt Neil was so annoyed at every high five, and every time he hugged.

Like, I think at the beginning of the fifth round, Thompson came out for a hug, and Jeff Nell just went like, oh, really, man. Let's do this afterward. It was great. A. Kay, I believe you picked Jeff Neal to win this fight as well. I believe in our MMA fighting staff picks contest. Oh, did I? It came down to you and Guillermo and Guillermo and Guillermo comes out on top once again. Jeff Neal?

What? Mike, Jeff Neal, by decision? What? That doesn't sound like something I would do. What are you talking about? That's the only insane person would think that Jeff Neal would win a point battle against Stephen Wonderpoint? Who would?

would predict that. People do not go to mabayfighting.com and check out the U.C. Vegas 17 predictions. Don't. Just don't bother. It doesn't matter. It's in the past. Who cares our predictions at this point? Yeah, I mean, I think obviously anyone who's sane knew that anyone who's sane and has any credibility would know that if it went to a decision, Stephen Thompson was going to win it. So, I mean, I don't even know what we're talking about here. You know, but yeah, look, the cliche, there's levels to this and Neil, man, I thought after the first, first round. I was like, he's got four more rounds to figure it out. He did not figure it out. And Stephen Thompson looked fantastic. Like he was just pushing the pace the entire fight, just

picking him apart. And other than the whatever, there's something going on with his knee, his right knee in the final rounds, he really never looked like he was in danger. So yeah, great stuff. There's up to this vintage, whatever cliches you want to throw out there, they definitely applied to what Stephen Thompson did in the main event tonight. Jose, what did you think? And one of the things that kind of stuck out to me was Casey talked about Jeff Neal sort of being frustrated about high fives. I think he was frustrated by a lot of what Wonder Boy was doing in there. There were definitely flashes where he like turned his back and had her group because he was just like, oh my God.

Like I cannot hit this guy. And every time I throw a shot, he literally hits me 15 times in a row. So obviously, Wonderboy great performance for him. But for Jeff Neal, he's got to take a ton away from this fight. Is he not? Yeah. I mean, it's it was what Wonder Boy Thompson does. It's like watching Stephen Thompson frustrate his.

his opponent is like watching Damia frustrated his opponent. You know what he's going to do and you've seen it a million times and you can say you've planned for it as much as you want, but it's two masters of their craft that have been doing it their entire lives and you've probably been training

in this, you've been focusing on this very specific path to victory that your opponent lays out for probably like what? I'm at most eight weeks. So yeah, Jeff Neal's probably taken, for sure, have taken a lot away from this he didn't get finished uh he got completely out class but as we've heard a thousand times you

learn you learn the most in your losses uh i've never fought wonder boy thompson i probably never will so i can't say what it's like to lose to stephen thompson but it's got to be just a demoralizing experience and i have a feeling that jeff neal is gonna his next opponent's probably going to get decapitated uh just as jeff neal uh unleashes all this frustration out at once yeah it'll be interesting to see how he bounces back and i hope wonder boy didn't seriously hurt his knee because this guy has had a hard time over the last few years getting out of a fight win or lose without some sort of injury that either requires surgery or you know some sort of gnarly thing that keeps him out of action for a little while and

just when wonder boy starts to really get back on track and momentum shifts something always happens coming out of these fights whether he breaks one hand or both hands and now a knee injury hopefully it's just a bruise and something he can get through really quickly so he doesn't We don't have to wait until December of 2021 to see him again. So we'll keep our eye on that. But at this point, let's just go right to the people. Let's go right to the peeps. It's your show.

It's the final post-fight show of 2020. It's the holiday spirit. I'm feeling very generous. That's some earlier. Real quick. What were the bonuses? All three finishers. So is Jimmy Flick,

Marchine Tybora, Rob Font, and then Stephen Wonderboy Thompson got himself a bonus. There you go. So there you go. Go, 50 G's for Wonderboy. Upstate karate, rejoice. The rare bonus for a fighter winning by decision, which should become more frequent, by the way,

but they had no choice, so they gave it to someone who won by decision tonight. But we'd all like to see that more often, I think. Is somebody washing dishes? I hear like, did it. So you? All right. I don't know what's happening right now.

So I saw the question. Jose will start with you because me and AK will, we'll be discussing this on on to the next one. What is next for Wonder Boy after his big win tonight? Well, in this perfect world, Stephen Thompson's knee is fine, and it was just like, I don't know, some sort of freak nerve damage, and he doesn't have to sit on the shelf for another year. But until that happens, my fingers are going to be crossed

because I don't want someone of Stephen Thompson's skill and age to be out for that long again. So he calls the Leon Edwards fight. I doubt that happens, because I'm sure the UFC, wants to book him against Hamzaa Shemaya, but maybe they want Stephen Thompson's to stay ready just in case there's another COVID situation that happens. And he could slide in against Shamaia or Lan Edwards. I know he called out Mazurah.

I can almost guarantee you that won't happen. Not because Manjadol wouldn't take the fight, but just, well, Mazzadol has told a lot of people, including myself and Pizza Carol, when he interviewed him, we interviewed him at his Requiredo launch party that he wants to rematch Damian Maya. He wants to rematch Stephen Thompson. He wants to rematch everyone that's beaten him. But at this point in Mazizal's career, I think he's still looking for those big money fights,

which is, of course, the Colby Covington, Kamara Usman, the Nate Diaz fight. So I know Mazzaal would take it at some point. It's probably right now. So I don't know. It's a good question. Off the top of my head, the Welth to 8 division is like we said at the preview show. Like we were talking about what Stephen Thompson was fighting for,

he's pretty much going to be the only active. welterweight in that upper echelon right now. So stay ready, see what happens, get you need figured out. But I don't really have a name for them off top of my head just because there's so many fights that have to happen first. I was going to you, Casey. You know what? It's not my answer.

It's from our YouTube commenter Sandy Fam. BMF versus NMF. Yeah. That's verbatim what Wonderboy said on his post-fight interview. He said at BMF and MMF. So that's, yeah, I'm cool with that. I just don't think Miles would all take it right now. What does Mazum all take then?

Well, I said Colby. They said he thinks they're just to angling some sort of fight with Colby. Yeah, something like that, which makes a lot of sense. I enjoyed the call-up. I thought it won. It's a very winnable fight for Thompson, which we know because he's won it before. So that's why I'm not sure how inclined people would be to watch it again. Though it was three years ago.

So I think for a lot of people, you know, they have the attention span of like 18 months. So maybe it'll seem like a freshman. matchup for people. Maybe Mazvedal's better than he was then. You know, he's definitely a much bigger star than he was then. So I understand the appeal of it. I'm not, I'm not against that matchup. I'm just, I'm just glancing at the rankings, sort of my own rankings right now. I think the Mazvedal fight is likely because like we said, we don't know if, how long Wonderboy could be out. Hopefully nothing serious with his right leg, but it could be like till the summer, right? We don't know. And by then, Masvedal could be free. And the whole division could look very different.

another possibility another guy who just cannot get a fight I think he's ready Ponziabio I think I think Thompson and Ponziobio why do you shake your head Casey Is Ponzi no even ranked? Is he even in the UFC When is the last time he fought?

He should be Why is he not ranked? He should be How long has he been out for? He's not. I don't almost two years now Yeah, two So you're

So you want Ponzenob Ponsonibio over a Mazadol rematch or you're just throwing out I'm just saying we've seen the Mazzvedo fight, yeah. I'm pretty sure Panzinov is tied to a fight against the leech and he's down for it. Korn and Giami Cruz.

Oh, okay. So, okay, wait, did we report on? It's just a rumor. It's a rumor? Okay, I like that matchup. The other one is, I don't know what's going on with this guy, but Nate Diaz? To take away the nicest MFer of the

championship exactly the other night yeah the other nice is emph or Nate Diaz of course

known for his what about um who might as he is fighting uh he is fighting

somebody I don't know who it is but he has said pen has gone to paper and he's very

excited for the fight so I don't know my guess would be Damian Meyer or Neil Magni those would be my two thoughts

but we'll see I like the Maya one I like the Maya one a lot you know too classy, too classy gentlemen, nice clash of styles. I can't even imagine how the fight would look. Such a clash of styles, but, you know, you kind of like to see that.

Extreme crap work for six. What's the Chagney up to these days? These fights everyone. He's wanted the Shemiah fight for like six months. He'd love the Wonderboy fight. So would Keesa. I don't know how much Wonderboy would want to fight Keesa or, or, um. What about, uh, it makes no sense ranking wise, but maybe age wise.

What about a fight against Condit? Yeah. I think that's cool. I think these are the kind of fights that Wonderwell should be going for now. The U.S. He doesn't have been fights that people want, so it doesn't matter. Now that we've said it, now that we've said it, oh, no. I don't know.

I can tell you right now, Wonderboy is pissed you how to take this fight. Yeah. With Jeff Neal. You guys, yeah, everyone's thrown on these opponents that are way behind him in line. And with Wonder Boy's age and everything, like, I only see a Mazeldao fight or Leon Edwards fight. Someone within one rank of him or above him. I just...

Those people would make him happy. Yeah, I can't... Wonder Boys age. Like, come on, he was actually... Wonder Boys actually talking crap and, you know, calling people out now because he's so desperate to get those fights. So, I mean, as cool as, you know, fighting hardest conduct or Ponziabu would be,

because I just, you know, of course we want to see them fight. I just think we have probably only, what, three, you have three, maybe three fights for Wonderboy left at a big stage in his, in his stage in his career. So, well, listen, listen, Casey, I've, I've got a prediction. I've got a running prediction that one of these gentlemen, one of these brothers is going to end fighting inside the octagon, maybe not in 2021. But if they do in 2021, why not have the classy Stephen Wonderboy Thompson welcome Jake Paul

to the UFC? Maybe, maybe that's the big money. I did it. I'm just getting out of the way early. I'm just getting out of the way early. Let's talk about it. Let's talk about it. Tom himself did address it during Media Day and said those guys talking all this crap is ludicrous. He can't, I think he can't believe that. I mean, so many fighters are even responding to these callouts. The word he used was they don't deserve, they don't deserve to even be in discussion with some of these great MMA fighters. They are not worthy is the other word he used. So I don't know. He probably would not want to do it unless one of the policies guarantee a fat paycheck for him, you know, a fat bonus. But others, Again, I don't know what fight. Like you guys said, maybe Mazidol is the one that he called for.

Maybe that's the only fight that would really make him happy right now. Because otherwise, yeah, there's a lot of less appealing options for him as far as what he wants. What if you saw a video of Jake Paul driving by Steve Wonderboy in Roddy school, and he's throwing water balloons at Steve Wonderblood. Yeah, his dad. And he was like, grr. I got you in the oxygen. We got some really good angle.

Thank goodness. we had all these cameras around and got all these angles of that. Oh, running a job. Start it. Did we get good audio on this? Hello, check, check. Wonder Boy would get on the upstate karate bus or the bunch of dodge balls.

Like, that's just how we were going to do it. It'd feel like a dodge ball match. He's Louise. Oh, man. We'll see. I like it. I took it there. I took it there.

John Degnan. The Morano fight was Petis' last fight in his UFC contract. What are the chance? that Pettus tries out free agency, maybe head over to Bellator and join his brother, AKA your thoughts on this? Do you believe that we saw Anthony Pettis compete in the Octagon for the final time tonight?

Oh, why you had to phrase it like that? Because, I mean, answering the original question, I do think it's a super high chance that he talks. He's definitely probably already spoken to Bellator. So I think the talks are there. I enter him a little, some hush-hush negotiations. It just makes a lot of sense for him. look, Donald Seroni, his fight before this one, that was the first time he rematch someone

that he'd already fought in the UFC. So I'm not counting Benson Henderson, of course. They fought WC and UFC. Seroni is the first guy he fought twice in the UFC. He beat him twice. But I think into the back of his mind, there's that thought like, man, now I'm starting to cover ground that I've already covered. I fought a who's who at 155, 170, 145.

He fought Max Holloway. You know, and yes, he knows that the best accomplished, I think, for him is still in the UFC, but there's also fresh options of Belator and very good competition over there. It's a new thing. It's kind of a new stage for his career, of course, his brother is over there. It's a very comfortable fit. I do wonder if he's just looking for something new. So to answer your question, Mike, do I think this the last time he's fought in the UFC?

I'm going to lean towards no. I think the option is there, but I think him and Dana and the matchmakers, I think they work something out, maybe another four-fight deal. Interesting. Jose, agree or disagree? I disagree. I think Anthony Pettis is going to either hop over to most likely Bellator to join his brother. He gets to wear all of his sponsors. I'm sure he can wear the logo of his new fight promotion or amateur promotion, whatever it is, and his new agency. I just think his brother has said it enough times where like he goes to the Bellator. He's already been treated better than he has been in the UFC. He's not lost in the shuffle. His brother's obviously there. He can see he sees all the time. He's said it enough times where like he goes to the Bellator. He's already been treated better than he has been in the UFC. He's not lost in the shuffle. His brother's obviously there. He can see. He sees all. He sees all the opportunities that Sergio is getting. So, yeah, I would put money on him joining Bellator.

Do I want him to join Bellator? I don't particularly care. Whatever makes him the most money, he's a prize fighter. And at this point of his career, he's like AK said, he's fought the who's who. At 155, I selfishly wanted Anthony Pettis to welcome Michael Chandler to the UFC, because I think at some point, they had to have been champions at the same time together. So it would have been another one of those fun UFC versus Bellator fights. It's like, well, it might not have been a fun fight when it happens, but the lead-up would have been fun.

Kind of like when the Eddie Alvers, Anthony Petters fight went down or like the Gilbert Melendez anti-Pedis fight when it was like kind of strike force versus UFC. So, yeah, I'm cool with whatever. If he wants to join PFL to make a run in a million bucks before he hangs it up, that's cool too. But there are more fun fights for him in the UFC. But if he wants to make all that extra money, maybe go to Bellator. So you can wear all your sponsors and all that stuff. Yeah, I don't know if PFL happens just because I don't think I feel like his management team in PFL do not have a great relationship. Citing Brennan Locknain sort of being stuck in there during this pandemic when that guy was looking for fights.

There was talks about lawsuits and all this stuff on Twitter. So I don't think PFL is an option at this point. I think one might be interesting because I think one would pay a lot of money for Pettus. But I think Bell Tor is the way to go. I think he gets a title shot maybe immediately, but at least in the very foreseeable future. It's not going to happen in the UFC unless he wins like 10 fights in a row. But if he goes to Bellator and fights Benson Henderson,

like you suggested on Twitter, Jose gets a win there, he's probably fighting for a belt or getting huge fights from there. If this featherweight Grand Prix is over with and they want to do a lightweight Grand Prix would not be like throw Anthony Peders into that. I'm fine with that too because then that takes the matchmaking out of it. Question. How do you promote a third Henderson's fight without the showtime kick footage, though? How do you do it?

Right? It's hard. It would be hard to bring up, right? Well, you're also promoting a fight where a guy's down 2O, too. And Amy Henderson coming off a pretty good CO knockout. So I just have a lot of questions. I'm sure Mike Goldberg with his. Broadcasting brilliance in 2020 and 2021 will put that over with his,

with just his verbiage. He doesn't need anything else. He's been so good in 2020, right? He would put that over. You don't need any video. I'm very sarcastic. We need him and Rogan back together. I'll tell you something.

That is a, that is a, that is what I want in my broadcast in 2021. Logan wasn't even there tonight. Now we're still talking about Rogan. God dang. I know. He has living,

he's living rent free. He's living rent free up here. What can I say? He's got, you know? Is it a red friend? Signed the bellator. Vacate the belt, little pit bull, and have big pit bull versus Pettus for the 155 title. There you go.

Make it happen. So Casey, so Casey, you think we did see the last of Pettus in the, in the Octagon tonight? Yes, sir. I do believe that. Oh. What if you find? I mean, they put them on the prelims, you know, they put Pettus on the prelims. Remember when Andre Alacki or Lach.

Oh, feature prelim, my bad. That's we featured prelim. So in a way, he headlined. Pettus can fight a wealthy way. Pettus can fight a welterweight in Belator too. You do. Imagine him versus MVP. Oh, no.

I was going a lot of good matchup. I was going Dougie Lyme's versus Dougie Lyme's versus Pettus. Well, I think Lima's probably going to fight Larkin. Okay. And then I think Pettus MVP for number one contender, sign me up. Co-man event. So they all just around each other? Like, you're welcome.

Scott Coffrey. Mike, you think he's going to go on at Belator? Oh, God. I think he's already packing his bags. I think the UFC knows that dude. Yeah. I think U.S. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of Rufus for

signed over to Belator in like the next coming, like the next 12 months. They got a bunch over there already. Yeah, it's going to be interesting. Interesting 2021. Yeah, we're going to see Della Dennis versus Pettus soon. Oh, sure.

So we go. Now we can put Dylan Dennis in the, you know, the headline out. All right. What else we got? All right. What are we got? Bring a fire. Here's the fire.

Here's the fire. It's from the same commenter. What was up with Neil constantly burping during the fight? Oh, they were, you know, they were suggesting it might have been something he drank or something before. But I don't know about you guys. I'm out of shape. So when I try to do any exercise, I get gassy sometimes. Sometimes you get nauseous.

You want to burp. you want to puke. I mean, we've seen that happen to fighters. And Neil is certainly competing in a contest far more athletic than anything I've ever done in my life. So I wasn't surprised at all. I just thought he got a little gassy. I didn't even notice. I've been watching, lately, if I'm not there, if I'm watching the fights, I'm mute with no commentary.

So I didn't even hear it. You're missing the best part. It was very loud. It was. I feel like they had a microphone like inside Jeff Neal's mouth. It was awesome. Maybe that's why Wonderboy was high-fiving him so much. She was just like, oh, good push, bro.

Yeah. I did notice it. You didn't notice? I didn't notice it. Oh, I heard a good four or five times. Like him just like, bruh. My wife and my son stayed up a little bit later. So they were like falling asleep so I had to turn down the volume a little bit.

So I didn't notice it. Yeah. I think the common jersey, Bisming even talked about it on the broadcast. Oh, yeah. Yeah. They mentioned the drink thing. They said, maybe he drank something weird before the fight. I'm like, I don't know.

I think it's going to get gassy. You exercise. You get gassy. Not that I would know. I never exercised, obviously. All right, moving on to the people's main. Move on to the people's main event. Oh. How'd y'all score?

Michelle Pahatta versus Kass Williams. Good question from Sandy, fam. I'll start with this one. I scored it. I believe my exact tweet was 2928 Paheda, but I'm 1.5% confident in that pick. I had no idea how to score it. No clue.

I had no idea how to score the first round. I felt like the second round was a Paheda round, and the third round was really close. So I had no clue, but just on my gut and what I saw briefly without going back and checking anything out more frame by frame, I scored it for Pajeda. But if you scored it for Williams, I have no issue with that. How did you score it, Jose? I scored for Pareda, but because you guys have all watched fights live, Octagon side, and it just sounds a lot different than watching through your TV. So I just think Michel Pareda was so mobile, and he was just like, so when I think about how these.

fights are scored, I don't particularly think about, like, I have how I would score, then I try to think about how the judge would score, because it's just different being there live. Like, we've seen fights where it just, we're just baffled at how a judge could score. Like, like, you all thought Justin G.C. clearly lost the first round against Habib. But there, a lot of people thought Justin Gage did enough to win, just because we heard all of the punches land and all of the movement around and all of the checks kicks and everything. So it just sounds different. And so I just think the judges being there live, I assumed they would give it to Pereira.

And I actually scored it for Michelle Perrera, but I don't disagree with you if you think Chaos Williams went out. I don't think it was a robbery by any means. It was a very close fight. And as 8K says, not all close fights are robberies. He does say that. That's his thing. All close fights are. Yes, I do said that is why.

As people say, that is what he says. That is why I started the robbery review series. Of course, every time I do a robbery review, you don't even need to read the article. I'm essentially just saying that the fight was a robbery. So yeah, it's in the headline, right? It's in the headline. Obviously, I'm calling every fight a robbery. Yeah, I had a 29, 28 Williams, but I had no problem with the final verdict.

It really came down to that second round. The strikes that stood out most to me were every time Williams caught, was able to catch ahead his leg and land like a kind of overhead, right? Those, for me, were like the biggest shots of the fight. So those I thought were the most impactful. But again, I'm not there. I can't really tell. I'm not feeling it and hearing it.

He was doing good job with leg kicks too. I know I think Paheda did have, I think, even not just the TV stats, but I think if you go to UFC stats.com, I believe that they, he did have the advantage in total strikes. But it was so close. I have no problem with Paheda winning. He really, he really, there was a lot of activity which people like, and I know the second round, some people decided it on that very late choke attempt by, by Paheda. So people thought he maybe stolen the round with that submission attempt, which I guess so. I can't argue against that. Maybe it was one of the most definitive moments of the fight. That joke was in deep, man.

Huh? That choke was in deep. People said, 10, 15 more seconds, it might have just been over. Might not even talk about judging right now, right? So, yeah. So if that is what counts to people, then for sure. But I think there was nothing wrong with the Pajaro. I went with Williams. But again, I'd have to rewatch the fight.

I might see it the other way. It was really close. Casey? I thought it was pretty easy to school. I had Williams winning the first round, chaos winning in a very non-cautic round in round one. And then the second round was very close until that last five seconds when prayer took his back and put a choke in. And basically he was saved by the bell. So without a doubt, he wins that round.

I mean, about a doubt. And then third round, prayer. Close fight. Close fight. However you scored it, and I have no issue with it. Were we disappointed? Yeah, of course. We guarantee some kind of 50K bonus for someone,

and we got... I don't want a kind of gentler, Demolador. Nobody wants that. Nobody wants that. Bless him, he's winning fights in the UFC. That is really the most important thing. Is that what? Other than being a veteran who gets a lot of bonuses.

If you're a veteran who gets, like, one bonus every, you know, two or three fights, you'll be fine. You know, you'll be fine. You're going to stick around if the company likes you. And Paheda could have gone down that road, honestly. I don't know how much security there is. I don't know his relationship with the company. So maybe he could have gone down that road, just being the super action fighter, win or lose, doing crazy stuff.

But I also kind of like him showing a new side of himself. I don't like people doing their same tricks over and over again. And he got the win, which I guess is the most important thing. The same trick being entertaining? Is that a trick just being entertaining? I just mean if you watched his first two or three fights and some of his fights before he came to the UFC, he has the routine. He has an actual, like, tumbling routine that he'll do, which is I think is why when Tristan Connolly fought him, he just like avoided it. Chisholini was just like, okay, uh-huh, all right, yep, okay, good, it's over.

I'm going in. Can we fight now? It's not even a cornerman during that fight. Yeah, that's not right. Yeah, that's why he missed weight. He had, like, no cornerman. He missed weight. It was like a kidney bank over, like, I feel like if Tristan Connolly and he ran it back 10 times,

like, that was like a perfect storm of just off on this for him that whole fight. Yep. But I mean, look. And like, yeah, like Jose said, like there was a lot of circumstances why he, He lost. He lost Fair and Square. Like, no one's arguing that was a bad decision, but there was a lot. I'll go into that.

No, Casey, you're right, though. Anyone who's, there was a lot of people who were giving people crap, even after his UC debut when he won, that amazing fight with Robert. Dan Roberts. What a clown he is. Any of those people, I don't want to hear you complain that. I don't hear any of those people say that this fight was boring then, because you got what you wanted, all right?

You wanted him to show his technical skills? He did. He did. And, again, close fight, but officially he won it. He does really have great technical skills, though. And I think you could even see that in the fights where he was clowning. I mentioned this in the preview. I'm like, underneath all that, you can't do all that stuff unless you have really strong fundamental skills, which he has.

And he's relying on that morning. He fought a really smart fight tonight. And I still think, this guy's, I know he's been around for a long time. He has a lot more fights than I think people think, but I still think he can be a top 10 guy. Believer. I don't believe her. Why couldn't he be? That's huge.

He definitely could. But he throws punches so fast. Like they come from so far away. He snaps your neck back. I don't know if he's going to just dust someone with his punching, but he's for sure going to just cause what, like all of his opponents are just going to be all bruised up at the end of it. I haven't seen this question, but what Jose mentioned earlier,

when Jeff Nill comes back and, you know, fixes up his bruises and all his cuts and everything, you say he's going to decapitate somebody. Michelle Pereer and Jeff Nill. Sure. I'd be into that. That sounds sexy. Sign my ass.

Unless they want to re-book Neil on Neil. Oh, yeah. There you go. Oh, please. Say he gets the loser of Keesa and whoever this mystery opponent is because he's been calling for, he called for Keating for a while too. So I think before we book Jeff Neal, a few fights have to happen first. He wants Pettis.

I mean, he definitely called for Pettis after, but like I said, we don't know if that's even possible. That was a waste of a call out. Waste. hated it. Did not like it at all. What is in two weeks, too? That was weird.

In Horizon. Horizon. I'm going to. Hey, this is a free agent. Maybe we don't know, man. You sign Horizon. I'll take stars and get cut, and then I'll fight you on New Year's Eve.

I dig it. By the way, my favorite visual of the entire night was chaos staring down Pahedas. He was gleeously dancing and then break dancing. That was so great. And poor Joe Martinez, it's like trying not to stare at chaos.

You could tell he, like, could feel the stare. And he's just trying to, like, keep himself busy and look at his card. But he was terrified in that moment, as he should have been. I would be. I wasn't too big in the commentary tonight. But I thought Bisbing made a great point about Williams chaos. I was just staring. He goes, that's very tiring to stare at someone for that long.

I was like, you're not right. Yeah, just like stare someone for like, because like, Perric had took his time, you know, he was, he hugged everyone like five times before getting in the cage and he must have been staring, he must have been staring at prayer for a good, like, about blinking, I don't know, yeah, a good like five minutes it felt like. His eyes were probably starting to water. They were probably like, they put water and tremble. And then like, I think he'd been gone on any longer tears would literally come from his face.

But Michelle Hepahedda, he's only 27 years. I keep thinking he's older than he is. He's only 27 years old. Tonight was his 38th pro fight. So it took him over 30 fights just to get to the UFC. So, yeah, I mean, do I think he can be a contender? Yes, but I see why people might be skeptical, right? I mean, 30-something fights before making the UFC, if it, you know, people would ask if it hasn't happened, you know, why does it take us a long?

He's on that Jordan Mean trajectory at that point. Right, yeah, that's crazy. I want to see, yeah, I want to see prayer versus, keep moving them up. Keep moving them up. There are fun fights that want to have to see, but like, but it doesn't make sense right now for it's clear. Yeah, I mean, Pahana versus anybody I'm okay with. Was the temporary tattoo on Aldo's chest some kind of political message? It was a Navy decal, and it was where he did a lot of his boxing sparring.

So, you know, I don't know if it was technically, I don't know if it was a political statement, but it was at least a shoutout to, because he posted about it in November. Guillermo was tweeting about it, too. So if you want the details on the patch, you can go spot it. You can go scope out Guillermo's Twitter. you know what i'm kind of bummed i thought i thought he's not going to sponsor i was hoping he made i was hoping he made an extra you know extra 25k just for putting a little tattoo on him but well maybe someone else will now you know maybe this is president casey right okay that worked

he got that one there thank you thank you whatever works for it he looked he looked pretty damn good tonight yeah it's a caro man 91 do you think that marlin's durability is gone he took a lot of shots It's a Udo fight and he just seems like he got rocked very easily today. Jose, you are excited. Go ahead. Yeah, I want to start this. And I was thinking about this because, like, I thought when the first happened, I was like, I think it just shows he came back too quickly after getting wheeled kicks by Corey Sanhagen. But then I was doing Twitter reacts and I was like getting like, so I see a lot of what his fellow UFC fighters are saying.

And Al-Armaine Sterling made a very good point. But if you look at Marlomere's UFC run, he has a bunch of first. throw knockouts. And then outside of that, he has a bunch of victories that aren't overly exciting or they're very close. And Alzumaine Sterling says, if you don't get crushed by Marlon Murray is in one round, this is the fight you're going to get. You're either going to knock him out later on or it's going to be kind of a boring, close

fight. So he's saying he's very good. He's very skilled, but he's not the world beater that he was. And Alaseman Sterling is on record a few times saying he didn't really take Marlon Marais seriously going into their fight when he got head kicked and if they run it back he would beat him he gives him all the props in the world for for head kicking him and make him doing the dab but he made a lot of good points on Twitter where he goes this is what a Malamore's fight is you're either going to get the fight is either going to end early from either side or is

it going to be a very close fight and it's probably going to be controversial at the end I hadn't thought about it at all because I wasn't really looking back on Malamara's career until until I read these tweets but I thought Alamaine's Sterling made a very very good point when he was tweeting when he was live tweeting this fight in a fight about a fighter that he has a lot of experience training for and being around that because member mom race trained up in the new jersey area for a while so i'm sure they've been around the same training partners a bit too yeah i would agree with that but he's what one in three since he's left jersey now yep yep the numbers do not lie the numbers do not lie Jose you are you are correct uh his

the UFC debut, half a sounsau, split decision loss. His next fight, John Dodson, split decision win. You have three straight first round finishes. Algebraan Serling, Jim Rivera, the Assensau rematch. Loses to Henry Sehudo after kind of gassing out in the third round. And then split decision win over Aldo and then now these two losses. So that's really what Algebra means. Almermans like, if he doesn't beat you in the first round, you're going to get the Dotson,

like a Dotson type or Albo type of fight. But, yeah, addressing the durability thing. Mike, we kind of talked about this. You brought this a bit last week with Ferguson. Like guys who have had these kind of mileage on them, you kind of want to wonder, what if they took like eight months off or a year off? What if they had that luxury that they could do that?

Does it come back to some degree? It never comes back all the way. I don't think. I think when you've been fighting as long as these guys have that, you're never going to be as durable as you were three or four years ago, right? It's just not how it works. But can you get back some of that toughness? Can you get back again, your brain cells and your chin or whatever it is?

At least you're getting knocked out. Can some of that come back? I think it can. So Mike, I don't know what you're doing for our matchup show, but I'm definitely going to at least suggest I would like to see Marlon Muddice take some time off. I don't know if that solves anything. It could be more of a defensive issue than anything, right? Decision making, because I liked his plan in this fight.

I think taking the fight to the ground right away was the way to go. And then once he started going to a slug fest, I was just like, oh boy, oh boy, I don't know if this is a good idea because Rob Fonk can bang. So it might have done to do with the chin, right? It could have been a tactical thing. But I do think some time off would be really good, at least six months, just to recover both physically and mentally and figure out, you know, what kind of fighter he wants to be because, yeah, that was hard to watch tonight.

He got hurt real bad. Yes. And if you want to say that it's a durability thing, not going to argue with you because he took a beating in the Suhudo fight and a lot of people felt like that was kind of like, I'm not going to say that this is exact, but this is a quote I keep hearing, Sehudo stole his soul that night and changed him forever, which there might be some truth that I don't really know. I'm not in the mind of Marlon Marais.

However, I do not want any of that to take away from what Rob Fon did tonight. Bad dude, after a year away, recovering from another major injury. I mean, he's gone, we're talking about Wonderboy going through major injury after major injury. Rob Fon's done this too. He's had like multiple year-long layoffs. And every time he's gotten put in this position with a big opponent and a big name, John Linnaker didn't do very well. Pedro Munoz did not do very well.

Hafiel Sunso did not do very well Gets another opportunity against the number three guy in the world and he put his ass away and did it very impressively so we've been waiting for years for Rob Fon to get that like signature win now he's got it and people are very excited now he called out T.J. Dilloshah everybody called out T.J. Dillashah tonight which I love and I'm hoping that's a question from the people tonight because I have I feel like the Dillishaw thing

became a huge storyline tonight didn't it? it's because his suspension is going to be up i think we were uh it started with corey sandhagen on fight island when even he dropped the name after he had to kicks malmerey so uh tj jillishaw is still a big name his knockout loss was not at bantam weight let's not forget that he never lost his title inside the octagon he lost because he was an idiot and took a bunch of illegal substances and got it taken away from him so uh he's going to continue to talk all that like if you look at his tweets he's like that's still my belt this and that so it's a big name uh he's he's obviously not ranked right now but yeah if you want a fast path to a title shot beating the guy

that technically never lost it is the fastest probably the fastest way in my opinion yeah talk about a guy who i wonder how he was going to look after a long lap again he's his health wise it's probably done in wonders to not have competed during this time right and everyone's still talking about him so it was you never you know want to be exposed as a cheater unfortunately, but I think for him, I'm sure he's like, well, this is the best I can make it, this bad situation I created for myself because I feel good, I'm healthy, I'm still in amazing shape, still relatively young, and everyone's still talking about me. As if I was as if I fought this year, you know, people are calling me out.

So that's fantastic for him. I want to big up your boy, Rob Fond, a little bit more, Mike. He is Mr. December, man. He is Mr. December. December 2016, first round knockout of Matt Schnell. And then his last three fights have all been in December because we said there's been some breaks. unanimous decision win over Sergio Pettus, unanimous decision win over Ricky Simone,

and now December 19th, 2020, first round TKHAO Mal and Rodai. So do not fight Rob Fon in December of Bantamway. So you do not want this, you do not want this man this month. Casey, let me ask you this. Nice. Nice. Casey, I'm going to start with you,

and we're going to go around because if it's not a question, we're going to make it, we're going to get the people fired up here. If you're the UFC matchmakers, and the whole world at this point is calling out T.J. Dilleshaw. I thought Dilleshaw versus Sanhagan was a no-brainer. I cannot believe they didn't make that fight,

although I'm cool with the Edgar Sandhagen fight. T.J. Dillishaw versus Blank. What are you going with? Jose O'Don. I agree. I like the font fight, but I just think Fond's not there yet. That could very well be a fight down the road, but I think you said it best.

He's kind of faltered in those big main fights. up until right now if marlin had won i think marlin versus tj would also be a fun scrap but i think josie aldo is the is the fight to make unless for whatever reason if the u ssie is still gung ho on your eye of favor being a thing uh in 2021 then if they want to book that fight but no i don't think anyone wants to see that in 2021 so yeah uh aldover is still a shaw for a number one contender is uh the fight to make in my opinion i i actually think favor is the fight to make i really do I think that's the fight to make. I don't like, I mean, listen, if TJ, if TJ Dilloshaw comes back and wins one fight,

he's fighting for the title. It doesn't matter who it's against. I think he's fighting for the belt no matter what. Just because he's a name and people feel a certain way about him, he creates some sort of reaction, mostly negative, but there are some people who really like to watch T.J. Dillashaw fight. There is a rivalry here between these two guys that has been going on for seemingly forever. And part of me just wants this shit to end.

Okay. Okay, just let these guys fight. I'm tired of hearing your eye talk about it. I'm tired of hearing T.J. Dilleshaw talk about it. I'm tired of hearing Cody Garbrand talk about it. Just let him fight. Do it now. Let's just get it over with.

People will watch it. It'll be fun. The build to that fight will be a lot of fun. You'll get to see angry Uriah Faber. You'll get to see kind of sarcastic and that that look on T.J. Dillishaw's eyes that people are just like, oh, I can't stand this guy. And that creates viewership. So if you're going to do it, just do it.

Just get it done. Let Aldo fight. Rob Fon. I like that fight. And there you go. That's what I think should happen. I mean, honestly, I think T.J. could fight anybody. Just let him fight Uriah.

Give it a, just, just let's move on with this rivalry for the love of God. AK, what do you think? Oh, I thought you were suggesting, I thought you were suggesting Aldo versus Uriah. No. No, no, Dishol. Pay attention, A.K. Oh, I'm sorry. Candy Lee.

Pay attention, Candid. I hate it on me. I'm on the social. You know, that's why I was raising my eyebrow. I was like, I guess so. I'm on the social media, guys. I'm TikTok in here the same. You know how it is, guys.

You know, I'm, you know, I'm a tick and talking. I'm a tick of talking. That's what it is. That's the kids call it, right? On my smartphone. That's how they talk to. I'll tell you, I, I kind of still want to see this one get run back. If Cruz beats Casey Kenny,

I kind of still want to see Cruz and Dillashog about it again. I'm okay with that one too. That's one that's one that was I always want to run it back. I only want that match if it's a verb belt. You know what? I think that fight, that's one of, when people list their best fights ever, I think that's left off a lot. That fight ruled.

It's a great fight. It's an amazing fight. It's a mesmerizing. It was on Fox Sports 1. It wasn't even on Fox. That's right. That's right. Was that the first?

What beautiful city was that in? What beautiful city? That was in the cold tundra of Boston. I was there. I went with the buddy. I went with the buddy who drank too much before the card and he fell asleep through the main event. At the arena? At the arena.

You had that fight, Casey. Yes, sir. That fight ruled. I was at that. I was, I was backstage for most of it. That was the fight card. Magnetriot's eyeball fell out of his head. I remember that.

Oh, only in Boston. You know what? I remember because I was doing the interviews and I had a cameraman. He was like an old classmate who had never really done M.M.A. And he was like, does this happen all the time? Do people just lose eyeballs and limbs? I was like, yeah, this is what happened. It's normal.

It's not every day, but yeah, a couple times a year. Only the good ones. Yeah. That's why God gave you two eyes, man. Come on. Mike, you made a great point. I really like that, actually, about TJ versus Faber. Because this actually is, okay, if TJ doesn't have a giant ego, you take the Faber fight.

Because you've been out for a while. That's a super winnable fight. You're going to get lots of, you actually probably get more hype and press for that fight than you would to fight freaking Josie Auto, which we know is a much tougher fight at this time. So, yeah, I absolutely think you're right. If I'm T.J. Dillischaw, yeah, you definitely do the, try to do the paper fight because you need a W. You need to remind people that you're a freaking badass. And, you know, and TJ likes talking crap.

So it's a good chance for him to talk crap. So, yeah, that is a fight to make, sir. Pieter Yan beat up in favor and got a title shot right after it. Exactly, exactly. No, no, I believe, yeah. And like you say, you should say, TJ just needs a win. That's all. you know so a win against favor win against auto take the easier one it wins a win that's what

okay says right the wins a win what a what a favor beat him can you imagine that what there you go see see if auto be tj that's cool oh cool if favor meets tj good lord why another title shot for favor one more time one more time oh man all right what else we got all right good win for rob fond though Sorry, somebody behind on these questions. That's where this discussion spawned from. Yeah. Yes. But Fons call out was like, classic font call.

I was like, you know, I know T.J. Dilloshaws there. He's like, I don't care. Whoever the UFC gives me. Like him and Kater exactly the second grade. New England Patriots mindset. Like, if Rob Fond and Calvin Cater get title for shots in 2021, like, good for New England and MMA. Like, they've needed that for a while.

Good questions today. Darren Cesska. So do this main event tell you anything about Jeff Neal's ceiling? Or do you think it's still too early to tell? Who's Jeff Neal? Oh, stop it. Such a stickler. Come on.

We all, Darren Seska, we all know who you're talking about. I'm sorry. Jose might not answer your question because he didn't spell Jeff Neal perfectly, all right? But I will gladly answer. By the way, we're getting some great questions. It probably helps that this show is happening at 11, just past 11 Eastern Time. and not freaking like 2.30 in the morning. Though for those of us who, those of you guys who are here at those crazy times,

of course, you guys are the frigging best and you still bring it. But these are really good questions. Darren, yeah, I'll say it's still too early to tell. There's just nobody like Wonderboy. There's nobody like Wonder Boy. I don't know. Wonderboy turns really great-looking prospects into, you know, people who, if you were seeing them fight for the first time,

if you had never seen Neil fight before and you watch this performance, you'd be like, why isn't this guy punching more? Why is he having so much trouble? Why is he getting up against him? the cage, we can't do anything there. And that's just how Wonder Boy is. There's just, there's, there's nobody who can emulate that style. There's nobody who can prepare you for that. Even giving 25 minutes to try and figure him out, Neil couldn't do it. So if you want to take something away from that, maybe, maybe he needs to, you know, he just doesn't have the vocabulary,

the striking vocabulary to deal with someone like Thompson right now. And maybe he never will. But that fits a lot of people. There's a lot of people who couldn't figure out Wonderboy. and I don't think that that necessarily speaks ill of their chances of becoming a champion. So I'm kind of teasing the question. I'm kind of on the fence about it. But I'll go with a hard no losing to Wonderboy does not tell us what Neil's ceiling is. I still think it's very high. I still think it's very high.

Let me put that way. But this was a learning experience. I would agree. I don't know. There's not much more to add to that, AK. I thought you nailed it. Casey, go ahead. I'm going to have to kind of go the other way.

I think I was, I mean, unless, okay, I think we did see a silly. with Jeff Neill tonight, unless we got to remember he is coming back from a life-threatening injury. So we just don't know how much that affected his training. Maybe he's a different fighter now. Maybe he just doesn't have the same strength, the stream cardio now. Dude, he was in the hospital. He was in the ICU. I mean, that's a, he didn't twist his ankle.

You know, he didn't get, you know, I mean, he was on, like, on life. I don't know. It was really bad. So I have to take that into account. And if I do take that account, is he just a different. fighter completely is he just not the same guy anymore i really hope that's not true that'll be super unfortunate and just major sucky i'm just hoping it was an off night for him in the sense and it wasn't had nothing to do with the his illness and also um what was the story on his coach um say

say what happened that he was that's what i was gonna bring up yeah because he said he was sick just sick we don't know he just just sick because fourth is him may had a bad night tonight unfortunately yeah true marana also had to yeah i also had to go with no less nice go too and you could tell that the guy whoever was talking to them that's not the normal guy who's just kind of like a buddy going hey man you got to win it's just like you know so i i i there were a couple there were a couple um circumstances with nil that um i don't know so um but if i'm assuming if he was at 100% tonight i i that that was a bit of a ceiling fight for nil unfortunately i think hmm i think not having safe in his corner definitely

affected him. I hope it did affect him in a sense because I was expecting more from him tonight. And how about Alex Moro goes in there, has a war with Anthony Pettis, and then is in the corner of Jeff Neil in the main event. I mean, what a, what a guy. What a man. Incredible. Incredible. He did not, he did not need a minute to himself, as they say in the fight game. Thank you, Darren. Thank you. I lost the question. I cannot find it. But basically the question was,

what do we think about Duran Wynn? Basically, I saw basically like 20 different versions of Dron Wynn, Dron Wynn. He won the fight, but man, I've never seen so much negativity to a guy that won the fight. Jose, we'll be good with you. Your thoughts on Duran Wins' performance tonight and some of the reactions we've seen,

because the Twitterverse has not been very kind to Mr. Duran win. Follow like a guy who probably needed a win to keep his job. So, yeah, like at the end of the day, we say it all the time, like getting these bonuses and getting all this is nice and getting these non-wagon contendor fights and big names. You win, you get the rest of your paycheck. So, A, good on Duran win for getting the rest of his paycheck. Number two, good on Duran win for probably keeping his job,

at least for another fight. Like, we've seen this a million times before. I'm not comparing these fighters, like, in terms of their talent or, like, or about them. But, like, remember when, like, Overeem, like, desperately needed a win after, like, his knockout lost to Bigfoot and his USADA suspension? And he was just not the same type of fighter.

And they gave him all this money. And then he goes out there and fights Frank Merritt USC 169. And then it was just not a great fight. Like, even Dana White was just, like, roasting him in the post-fight press conference. So we've seen this before. You win so you can keep your job and you can move forward. So it didn't surprise me at all.

If anything, it showed Duran Winn was very aware about the status of his career after missing weight and losing badly in his last few fights. So, yeah, keeps his job. Good on him. At terms of the fallout from the fans, as expected, I mean, we just got like the most epic card of all time. in the last week and then Dronwyn is fighting like he did this weekend, which I'm not knocking him like, like I said,

like he knew what needed to be done and he got it done. He just was the most exciting fight. I think M. Mae fans might have been a little spoiled in the last few weeks. But again, he's also a division. He's like a Division I won all-American wrestler and he just wrestled for two rounds or tried to wrestle one round

and then wrestled for two rounds. So yeah, what else can you say? Why was that fight at one? I'm sorry, I missed the news on that. There was a little bit of short notice for Ahoyo. It was about three weeks. So I think it was to help out a hoyo. And also, if you're win, I mean, when making 185 hasn't been particularly enjoyable for him either.

So, but I believe it was to accommodate a hoyo. I think that was the point. Okay. Is Ahoyo normally a middleweight? I think he's normally middleweight. I don't think there's a new. I think it's just because he took on short notice. Okay.

Okay. And we always say, when guys did things on short notice, we wish they would negotiate catch weights more. But I will say he looked, I mean, I think we all know he looked at F. huge in there. So I don't know how we can criticize Duran Wynn that much. He did what he had due to survive against the guy who looked like a foot taller than him

and who was hitting him. That's going to be that's going to be He needs to career, yeah. Duran win was what? 5.4? 5.5. 5.5. 5.6 or something, yeah. 5.6 and like he's in the same weight class as Israel out of Sond. It was like 6.3.

That's ridiculous. He has to, but he just might not have the body type that can make ones. He's talked about it before. It's been asked many times, can you make one seven? And he said it's possible, but it's not something he plans to do. I think he thought he'd have a nice runner winning five first. Like, isn't he the same height as Connor?

Probably. He's very short. But his body, his body just is the body of 180 fiber. That's the problem. I don't know if once. He'd have to have a dramatic body change, which probably would not be healthy. He got to the UFC being a two-o-fiver. Yeah.

He looks like, he looks like, Bradbury at heavyweight. Like he's just. He did what he had to do to survive. If anything, this was a nightmare scenario for a hoyo, yes, he did them a favor by taking this fight on short notice. But he's just had an incredibly bad luck. He's now 0 and 2. He's had several fight cancellations.

This was his first fight since November 2019. He's had a bunch of fight cancellations both because of him withdrawing and his opponents withdrawing. So I hope the UFC would cut him some slack. Again, he kind of did them a favor. But, you know, with all this talk of him pending cuts, and just how bad the fight was, I don't know.

I don't know if a hoyo gets brought back, unfortunately. So it was really a nightmare snare for him. Wynne did what he had to do, but he's probably on a fairly short leash. The next time negotiations come around for a win, he's not going to have a lot of leverage if this is how he's going to keep winning fights. But he did what he had to do, like you said,

you got to get that other check, right? That's all that really matters. I'd be curious how the commentary would have been if it wasn't Daniel Cormier. I was going to say, I think, I think, I think DC did win a disservice tonight, honestly. I agree. It felt like his mom kind of like my mom says I'm cool.

I don't know. It just didn't. Yeah, it was better. For those of you who aren't aware, like when Daniel Kormeer was talking about what it would be like to commentate a Habib fight, like if Habib would lose, like what would it be like? And the person he compared Habib to was Duranwin. He goes, it's hard to call Dronwin fight.

And even John Anick was like, have you ever, like, and then I asked John Anick about D.C. commenting Habib, and John Anick was like, you ever seen him commentate Duran Win fight? Like, it was brought twice. Like, that's how close Duran Win and Daniel Cormer are in terms of their training. Like, there's, if you go to the, I can't remember the YouTube page. So I apologize. I don't plug it. But they do, like, that documentary series about A.K.A. And they're always, like, wrestling day is just all Duran Win and Daniel Cormer. So it's, that's how close they are. I thought Duran's game plan was spot on. I mean, if you've paid attention to Ojo's career to this point, the guy is a monster. He's huge. He's powerful. And most of his wins are very quick wins. But if you get him into the second round,

especially deep into the second round, and you saw it in the Munez fight, he gasses badly, badly. So Deraan was just like, all right, just going to keep putting your ass down and making you get him back up. As soon as you get back up, Yeah, I'll take a shot, and put you right back down.

And, like, midway through the second round, O'Hoyah was done. He was so done. And then by round three, it was nothing he could do. So, Duran would do what he had to do. The guy, I mean, I, there was no one on this card who needed a win more than Duran win tonight, if we're being honest. Like, he was the guy with everything on the line. He lost, he was gone.

And there was no way around it. He knew it. D.C. knew it. Everybody knew it. And he got the win. So there you go. I had no issue with how he fought. It is very strange seeing him compete, though.

Oh, I love that part. That's my favorite part about him. So much hype coming in, too. It's so much hype coming in here. And he gets into a slug fest with Eric Spicely. That fight was so fun. That was the first fight of the night. It was the first.

Eric Spicely never recovered and got cut because he couldn't recover. Then he had a year later, he's like suffering from depression because of concussion since that concussion fallout. CTE. Like, and Eric Spicely, I've said it a million times. He's from Rhode Island. Like where I'm from, the martial arts community, the jiu-jitsu community, put Eric Spicey on a pedestal.

Like, he does so much for that community in that world. So him getting cut was a huge blow for the Rilean Martial Arts scene, and he never recovered. So Dron Wynn can fight. He's a good fighter. You just miss his weight, and he's just not, I've heard, we've all heard it. He's not as, what's the word? Discipline? It's hard to keep him in, like, he has the Johnny.

He might have the Johnny Hendricks type syndrome where when he's not in a one-to-fight camp, he's super out of shape. We've all heard those stories. So if Bronwyn gets it all together, he could be a great fighter. The only detriment is he might be a little too short for the division. The Spicely fight was crazy. I was a little worried watching that fight, though, because Eric Spicely is a good fighter. And he took that fight on super short notice. But Eric Spice is not a striker.

Like, he's not a striker. And he got into a slug fest with Eric Spicely. It was super fun. Don't get me wrong. It was a great fight. That was a short-notice fight, too. That's how he got back to the UFC. Yeah, I think frigid Durant.

Yeah, Durand had like three different opponents for that fight. Then he fought Darren Stewart in Boston. Super close fight. He did miss weight, but it was a very close fight. He didn't get the doors blown off him. Gerald Mirchard fight was a very competitive fight until the end. Bob Cook was not happy after Dron Wins lost to Darren Stewart. No, he was not.

I'm sure everyone. Were you at that? No, I was there for, I was going to say, I was there for that fight. Like, everyone heard. Did you, I'm sure you audibly heard Bob Cook talk. Oh, yeah. Everyone heard of them.

Maybe just, like, laying into him at the end of it. I was like, I don't think you should be doing this this close to the media tent. My guy, like, this is just kind of embarrassed. Maybe it was on purpose. It's embarrassing. Like, good coaches try to embarrass their fighters to get them back in shape. But then, like you said, General Murchard's fight was, looks like a guy who was really short and has, like, six fights against a guy who has

a thousand fights and it's probably the size for the division. And Gerald Mirsharp, he had a big issue with Duran Win heading into that fight, but Mershardt has praised Duran Win ever since. He said he surprised him with how tough he was. I mean, Mirchard got the finish in the end, but still, but it was a pivotal win for him. He needed to get it done and he did.

I actually don't think there's an issue of Wynn's higher and he's not too small for the division. I mean, obviously he's a 185er. He needs to make the weight. He needs to be more disciplined in between camps. he just, like, he just needs more. I was, actually, I was, I was, I was just expecting more from him coming into the UFC. And I don't know if he's hit a ceiling or just like the discipline thing.

But like, him just doing wrestling and ground and pound is enough to go very far in the middleweight division. But unfortunately, he's just doing the wrestling without the ground and pound. Yeah, yeah, that was. Yeah. It's like, we all, we all heard like Casey, I'm sure, because you've been around all these guys forever. we all heard of Daniel Kornay eventually making the jump to MMA even before he was in strike force because he was the Olympic wrestling captain a main training partner with Kane but between when he ended his

wrestling career and when he actually made his MMA debut there was a gap like UFC's in like UFC fans introduction to Daniel Kormnay was probably when he was on Josh Koshchek's coaching staff on the ultimate fighter I don't even think he had a did he even have an anime fight at that point so Daniel Kormonay took time and I just feel like maybe Dronwyn may have rushed into the UFC a little too soon. I don't know. But like Casey said, he needs to do more than just Russell. There are many reasons why November 24, 2018 is a terrible date.

That was the date that Chuck Liddell bought Tito Ortiz for the third time, that Golden Boy, MMA, BS. And the co-made event of that card was Duranwin versus Filthy Tom Loller. And Duranwin dominated the fight. Unanimous decision cruised. And then from there, it was like the Duran win show. Oh, man, this guy is like a super duper talent. And what he was he was 5 in O after that fight. And as soon as that car was over, the UFC like scooped him right up.

I wish that event never happened for multiple reasons. But this is one of them because we got a little more seasoning somewhere else. Like he had fought for Bellator the fight before that. He might have got like a couple more fights with Bellator. maybe with like a Titan FC or something like that and got a little more seasoning. Maybe it would have been on the contender series. Like instead of just throwing him right into the UFC,

I kind of wish he had more time to grow. But I mean, would you get an opportunity to fight in the UFC, 5 and 0, 4 and 0, 35 and 0, you take it. So I don't blame him for it, but I kind of wish he had more time to like get more experience. I mean, the guys he was beating on the regional scene, this guy was 7, 5 and 1, 4 and 7, 3 and 7, and making his professional debut before the Tom Lawler fight.

Yeah, we talk about all the time But man, there's so many fighters We wonder how different could their careers have been If they'd come along differently They got more time in the regional scene I felt that way about Chase Hooper right now I certainly felt that way about Sage Northcut After watching a couple of his UFC fights

I was like man, what if he had a chance to build his resume You know, with six, seven, eight more fights on the regional scene just just blowing by you know Blown through cans or very gradually moving as we have the latter But once you get signed to the UFC It's almost like there's no going back We've certainly seen cases. There's certainly been exceptions of people who have flame down the UFC,

gone back to regionals, want some fights, you know, got some life experience and come back. But it's rare. It's rare. For every one of those, there's 10, 15, 20 fighters who they get that one shot of the UFC and are just never able to get back on the developmental track, if anything, just because it's hard to find opponents who want to fight them when they get back to the original scene. And it's just not worth their or they can't find any comparable pay. And it's just not worth their time anymore.

So Darren Winn, for sure, a perfect example. of guys we talk about so clearly talented has an elite skill which can take you very very far in MMA but um you know again once you go from tom lawler to some of the guys who's fought in the UFC it's it's really hard to go back so yeah very hard to gauge um but what's going to be up with duron win in the future i still think it's too already to tell for jeff delia what's next for greg hardy let's talk about tabura first yeah good uh you and i'll be pop you and i'll talk about it tomorrow, A.K. Yeah, sure.

Yeah. But Jose, I mean, sneaky good, Marche and Taubura. I mean, this is a guy that, you know, had a rough stretch. Now he's won four fights in a row. He's training with Jan Behovic. He's in Vegas from time to time now.

Guy is rolling right now. Finishes Greg Hardy became an instant hero amongst a lot of MMA fans around the world. What did you think of his performance? And where do you see him going after a big win over Greg Hardy tonight? Top 15, I tweeted. I just assumed he was ranked just because the UFC Heavyweight Division is so shallow that just a heavyway with three wins in a row should probably be three wins in a row.

And his most recent win before tonight was over Ben. I'm talking before tonight. Oh, sorry. Three wins in a row. And this his most recent win was over Ben Rothwell. Like I just assumed he had a number next to his name. So when I went to go look and I didn't find him in the rankings, I was like, that's odd. So top 15, probably somewhere in the lower in like the 15.

to 10 range. Maybe I, Blagoi, Ivanov, maybe. I know he called for Curtis Blades or Derek Lewis, but those guys have to fight him. So not someone in the top five, top sevens, but top 15, like 15 to 10. Ivanov hasn't fought in a minute. Arlowski's out there.

He already lost to Sakai, if I remember correctly, so not that fight. So Walt Harris is coming off back-to-back losses, so maybe him too. But yeah, Tyber looks good in the second round. I think we were all in agree. we were completely caught off guard by the first round, but how, like,

Greg Hardy probably looked better than ever until his asthma and his cardio caught up to him. So, yeah, good win. Somewhere between 15 to 10, I would say, just because now he should be ranked, four wins in a row at heavyweight. Yeah, all in 2020. I didn't realize they were all in 2020.

I thought one of those was the end of 20-night. So top five, guys, our fight of year lists are going to look pretty weird this year. It's kind of crazy. Which we knew. We knew. Yeah, we knew. I'm going to ask this.

I'm going to ask this because I tweeted it too and nobody answered me. Is going four and no against four unranked fighters better than going two and oh against ranked fighters? No, no. I mean, it certainly depends. Four no and finishing Greg Hardy. Sure. It depends who those unranked fighters are and who those ranked fighters are. But I mean, obviously, we're just speaking sort of abstractedly.

If we're talking about the headwoods like, like, Overeem has two TKOs in the main event of fights. And as Casey Liden and his rules of MMA are, the higher the stakes and the higher the caliber of fights, the more prominent they're going to be placed in come award season, these fake awards that we give out. So Overeem also had the unfortunate situation of being the first fight back for Wall Harris, which no one, no one wanted that. No one wanted that situation because you're going to, it's an impossible situation.

I doubt he wanted it. No, he was like, yeah, it's fine. Yeah, I was going to say Overim is the pro that would be able to handle that situation. Oh, yeah. So, like, Overeem, to me, is the heavyweight fighter of the year

just because he's 2-0 and 0 with two finishes. But, man, Tibera, I was sneaky 4-0. And also, he looked great against Ben Rathalo. Let's not forget about that. I believe the beginning of the year,

I think I might have been, I might have been the first fight, the Spivak fight. I sweet something like, I cannot remember. It's something like, but Martin DeBurra has X amount of fights in the UFC,

a double-digit amount of fights. And I can't remember anything about it. He's had a couple of good finishes. He had more against for Doom, didn't he? Doesn't he have a main event fight against for Doom? Main event, I don't remember. Yeah, I don't remember. I don't remember.

I don't remember. I don't know. I know you have a better memory than I do, but I'd be shocked if you remember details of that fight. I don't remember anything. I remember he fought in a mattress and got his head cut knocked off by Derek Lewis. He's had a very solid UFC career. It's just the memorable moments, positive moments for him are pretty few and far between.

So for me to say that at the beginning of the year, and guess what? Now he's on a four-fight win streak, which is tied, I think, with Inganu, who's other, it's Inganu and Blades, I think? So. I think I've heard. Does he go in a row? He's one four in a row, I believe, yeah. I think they're all tied for like the best, you know, the best streak right now.

And again, I was making jokes. That's pretty memorable. You know, I can joke all I want. Again, maybe I don't remember all the details of the Maxim Cretion fight or the Sergei Spigabagic fight, But 4-0 is 4-0. Greg Hardy is not very good. I think, let's be honest here. I think today we saw KCU and I are always debating.

How much does the athleticism gap matter that he has between him and his opponents? It still matters a lot. Like I said, it looks like he won the first round. And against a more experienced guy, I think the athleticism plus the improvements he made matter. But we knew Tabura is just such a more experienced, more well-rounded fighter. We knew if the fight got to the ground, it was going to be a wrap. The only thing I was wondering is why didn't he get it there earlier? Probably easier said than done to take a guy like Greg Hardy down.

But once he did, it was over. So to sort of go to the original question. Greg Hardy is a large human. He is gigantic. And again, really fast. Again, he's only fast for one round. Sure. But I'm saying, obviously.

Yeah, he's fast for one round. And that's exactly what an NFL Pro Bowl defensive line is going to be. They only need to be fast for three seconds at a time. Exactly. That's why I don't put that. I put weight, but not like, oh, he was in the NFL. This is clearly going to transfer to MMA. Dude, the cardio is so different, especially for someone to size.

But I don't think he was such a weapon. He has no weapon. How much that helped him to win fights against guys like Jorgen de Castro? Like, Yorgon de Castro is a much better martial artist than Greg Hardy. But guess what? That doesn't matter in an M.M.A. fight necessarily. We're talking a part-time security guard. I mean, security guard fighter.

I mean, Yorin Casual was a good fighter. I mean, that's who Greg Hardy was dominating over it. When it comes to martial arts, he is much more experience in combat sports than Greg Hardy is. Okay, but when you add in the physical gifts that Greg Hardy has, that's how wins, like very convincing wins over guys like De Castro happen. So I'm just saying, athleticism definitely matters, but it can only take you so far. Eventually, there's a skill gap too, and the skill gap between someone like Tabura and Hardy, the experience gap is huge and totally overcomes the athletic gap.

But again, Hardy won that first round, right? So there's one there. What's next for him? Honestly, I don't think it'll happen. But I, because again, I think they still, I think Dana White likes him. I think the UFC likes him. But I wouldn't be surprised. He's also a big ticket item.

I think someone told me he made $180,000. He's not in the contender series contract. How about that? He's making a lot of money. And if we're talking about that 60, that magical number of 60 cuts, I would not be surprised if the UFC sees this performance, the kind of way he just kind of rolled over and gave up. He had no ground game, no concept.

You're right, and you guys are right. He's probably just freaking exhausted. Maybe he's kind of a draw. I still don't know if that's proven. They keep putting him on main cards. I don't know how much of a draw he is. Other than the draw, they're kind of trying to manufacture. We're talking about him, certainly.

But, I mean, is that enough to keep a guy who costs six, high, like 180 grand, almost 200 grand a fight when that could sign like 15 contender series guys with that money? I don't know what's next. But if he got released, I wouldn't be surprised. Let's put that way. he ain't getting ready, man crazy talk crazy talk

if anything they'll be like they'll just use this performance and the exact tops way oh he looked really good in the first round that he could get better not that he just became a different fighter it's they'll just point at very specific things that everyone else

use as a detriment and take you think Brock was there got being up for one round and one he's still won I think they go two ways of this. One, they give him a guy like Parker Porter. Yeah. Which would be fun.

And Parker Porter would be all for that. Or they give him a guy like Tanner Bozier, who the UFC like sees a lot in. And it's kind of like a win-win for them either way. Because they still, I mean, they see value in Greg Hardy. He creates buzz, creates controversy, good or bad, mostly bad. That's just what it is. When Greg Hardy's in a card, it's always on a main card and people talk about that. So give him Bozer.

Bozer has a chance to become a sort of an instant hero. I mean, he has the Arlofsky loss on his record. They're both coming off of losses. I'm okay with that. So you either go that route or you give him Hardy a big step back and, you know, give him a guy like Parker Porter or something like that. That's what I think they do. I don't think they give him like a big, a huge name or anything like that.

Yeah, I agree with Mike. Yeah, Tebrer, give him someone, you know, someone top 15. I don't know, whoever. There's no real prime matchup. form to someone good. And yeah, whoever is at the bottom end of UFC heavyweight rankings right now, that's definitely who should Greg Hardy should fight because they're not going to get rid of him. They've invested too much time into him just to get rid of him off this loss.

And a bad loss. And money, I guess. Yeah. They got money. Yeah. But don't expect it. But don't expect to see him in fights with like Juan Espino or Alexander Romanov. Like, you're not going to see any of that.

Like, you know, who's that English cat, that heavyweight prospect? Oh, he's undefeated. Yeah, he's real good. Asphinal. You don't want to. You don't want to hear that for her. I put him in that group of like heavyweight. Like, people talk about how shallow the heavyweight division is.

Like, there's some really good heavyweight prospects out there. Like Cyril Ghan. Doc is too. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I was going to say. Like Cyril Gahn, I think we can all agree is kind of like the peak of these prospects right now because he's kind of broken.

through that ceiling. He's no longer a prospect. There's some awesome heavyweight prospects on the up and up right now. Is this true? For sure. If this guy is still, I think, I don't know if he's officially been cut yet, but if they want to keep this guy around, Greg Hardy and Rocke Martinez, there you go. There's your Greg Hardy match up if you want to see him. If you're a fan of his, you want to see him get back on track, but, buddy, Rocke is really

fun to watch. But I do think that they would think is favorable for Greg Hardy. Maybe they'd be wrong, but I'm sure on paper it would be. I feel a little dirty That would be super interesting because Rocky can take a punch man

He can take a shot And he gets And he's got pretty good cardio Like he gets to a third round He's fine So that would be That would actually be a really interesting fight I feel a little dirty

But I want to see Greg Hardy versus John Belante That was the other I saw I looked at that name too But I don't want them to actually Fight the first round I want them just to kind of run around circles do a bunch of burpees

so when the second round, I want them, like, completely exhausted. I don't want to see full cardio either one. I just want to see two exhausted men. You see how tired Greg Hardy was during the handraise? I thought he was going to heave over and throw up when Tybar got his handraise. And what if they, what if Ovincent Prue hops up to heavy weight? Let's do a couple football players throwing down in there. I like that.

I like that. He would kill Greg Hardy. He would kill Greg Hardy. You would kill Greg Hardy. He would kill. He would just kill. He would just kill. Peru is also like, do you remember,

one of the headlines was against Glover in Nashville, wasn't in Nashville, and did that whole package of him going to like, back to the Tennessee football. He was not anything of the Tennessee Volunteers Football team, and they have him sitting in the locker room and his jersey's up next to Peyton Manning

and then like Todd Hilton jerseys next to him. Like, Ovin's St. Proof. I bet if you went to anyone that ever played for Tennessee, they couldn't name you who Ovin Senior Prue was. Like Greg Hardy was far in away a better football player than Ovin's say proof and OSP is a far and away better

MMA fighter than Greg Hardy. Make it happen. They're trying to make them like the Ron Simmons of the UFC. Ron Simmons had that Florida State pedigree, but he was like an all-American Florida. Yeah. No.

Terry Cruz over in Hollywood. Thank you for the question, Natalie Durand. Thank you for the question. Casey? Oh, you know what? How long have we been, how long have many questions have been answered? There we go.

Thank you. Tristan has been spamming this question in chat. Is this a new avatar, a new user photo by Tristan Gorda? I believe it is. Tristan, are you glowing up, as the kids say? Yeah. Thoughts on Jimmy Flicks flying triangle choke. Let me start here.

I will be an open book. I thought Cody Durden was going to run right through Jimmy Flick tonight. I really did. in the early stage of that fight, I was looking pretty darn good with my thoughts on that fight. But Darden made a mistake. He did exactly what he didn't want to do, and you knew it. Soon as he started moving his spine downwards towards the mat

when Jimmy Flick was falling backwards, he knew he was done. He knew it. It's a wrap. So huge win for Jimmy Flick. He comes through, serious guy, deserved a bonus. A.K., let me start with you. where do we put this one?

Because I think the submission of the year overall for award season, it's AJ McKee and there's like no one really close to that. Right. And in terms of the UFC, where do you rank this submission in terms of like best submissions of the year? That was really good. It was really, I just,

you know, we, and it's great because it's one of those ones that lived up to what we expected, you know? And by the way, Mike, you know, Durdon was winning the fight up to that point.

I mean, Durdon looks super sharp. It's not like, it's not like, it's not like, if Durdens should be disappointed. He knows he got caught. afterwards you could see you could see how mad he was

not in anyone but himself you could see the post fight he was so mad at himself but it was such it was so perfectly executed by flick he knew what he wanted to do he said man this guy if this he could say he was like a spider you know he caught him in the web it's like if this guy catches my leg i've got him and sure enough he throws a kick like it's caught throws it right up a flying triangle very rarely seen flying triangle i believe people said only the third in ufc history the other Pablo garza And Pepe, go to Fredo Pepe. So very rare.

I think it's a top three. I got to admit, my list is a work in progress. Like you said, I don't know if anything was talking to AJ McKee, but I could see making the top three. Recency bias, of course, always huge when we talk about these things. So I'm very high on it. And I just love that. I just love that.

I see Flick as being the kind of guy who has an identity, you know, much like a, I'm going to throw the name out there, like a Ryan Hall. Not on that level, of course. There's only one Ryan Hall. But someone who every time he goes out, but someone who every time he goes out there, cool name, first of all, Jimmy Flick and has a gimmick. People will be like, oh, this is the crazy submission guy. This is the guy who maybe, you know, winterly, you might see an Iminari roll in there.

You might see a flying triangle. We now know that that's in play, flying armbar, something, right? And that's a great place to be. So he made a really big impact coming out of the Contender series. Huge impact on his debut. Yeah, great one. And maybe I think a top three submission when all the voting is said and done of 2020. What did you think of Flick's performance, Jose?

Awesome. I mean, I picked him at the very last minute on our fight Q&A, so I looked like a genius, but I picked that with no confidence whatsoever. But, I mean, I'm always in for flying, fill in the blank when it comes to submissions inside the octagon. If it's submission in the year, probably not, maybe top five, but I would probably put it four or five.

If anything, I still hold Habib's. submission over Justin Gachi in the high regards considering the stakes and it was against Justin Gagey and it was you know Habeeb's last he was 29 and 0 but A.J. McKees I think is a no-brainer. Kellerhurst was awesome. Charles Oliveras over Kevin Lee was awesome just trying to think of some off the top of my head. Dejago Fahedis over Anthony Pettis was awesome. There's a lot of good ones. Al Jalman Sterling putting Corey Sanhagen the literal sleep was awesome but yeah flicks up there i just really have to sit down and think about it but top five top seven maybe i just thought about uh lipsky lipsky yeah thank you i know i said i read jac i think casey channeled that

to us mentally because suddenly the image of that like a thing twisted it's milgerine too yeah i was about to say mackenzie's over ciphers because that was like the four that like i think durn over marcos i thought that was a better one um but whatever but wasn't cypher's a record for like it was like the first legs lock submission and something like that or fast the history. Yeah. So anytime you break a record, I kind of give it a little nod up.

It was a fantastic submission, technically perfect. Just great submission. But not, it might break the top five for submissions of the year for the UFC only. But no, I'm just, but freaking fly weights.

Look at those fly weights. Yeah. So good. So good. Yeah. I'm excited. I just, you know what? I'm excited about Mr. Flick.

Seems like a good personality, exciting fighter, and a welcome addition to the UFC fly weights. Just got to get a stand-up and check, though, if he wants to move up. For sure. He's got to. But that's what I kind of like about some of these one-dimensional guys, though.

Like, you know, it's a throwback, right? It's a throwback to, oh, again, and look, look, we have guys that can only wrestle. What can we? Well, I should know. I know the answer to this question, but it's kind of cool. And it's like some guy just,

you know what he wants to do. This is one route to victory, and sometimes you can't even stop him, right? I think I should get Jimmy. I think I'm going to try to get Jimmy Flick on what the heck this week. Please do. We need to know what's going through this man's head when he thinks to throw a technique like that in his frigging UFC debut. You know what I mean? Savage.

Such a savage world. How long have we been going, Casey? About 90 minutes. Okay. What? Hour and 20. We're one hour and 24. minutes.

Holy crap. All right. We'll do one more question. Then we'll get out of here. One more question. I don't want to be. All right.

I don't want to find a new question. Let me see what we got here. Come on, guys. Give me a good question. No pressure. No pressure on this last. The viewers, you've had some amazing questions tonight already.

So great job. It's all gravy now. You guys have already, you guys have already carried the show with your amazing questions. Some of the comments that I'm reading, a little rude. But, you know, hey,

we keep a real around here. Five for the course. I got plenty of time to cry. I got plenty of time to cry tomorrow, guys. Don't worry about it. I got a whole Sunday. You know, Sundays for crying. That's why I always, that's why I spend my Sundays.

Dude, I love what I can't do just crying on Sunday. It's my best. Yeah, just thinking about all the comments that I've read about us and just like. While we try to find one more great question, just wanted to shout out the rest of the winners tonight. Christos, Giagos, short notice, three days notice. It's the win over Carlton minus. Tafon and Chukui with a six. successful UFC debut win.

And Chukui was real impressive. Yep. Sorry, Mike, I don't want to stop your run here. But I just want to say he came in with people. He was one of the biggest favorites in the card. So obviously there's this expectation. If anyone saw him was like, oh, this is a guy who's just going to like come out like a truck swinging and be a first round knockout.

And he did that. But also adapted as the fight went on and had a lot of controlled aggression. He looked very advanced for a guy in just his fifth pro fight. So I was more impressed by him going the distance and winning a convincing. decision against a very game, Pickett, but Jane Pickett, actually, I thought, fought really well tonight as well. Then him just coming out some 15 second,

25 second flash knockout. Obviously, that's a great moment. That would tell us a lot as well. But getting this amount of data, 15 minutes, I've seen a prospect of that fight, real, real impressive. So great debut for Jukui. Agreed.

I was really impressed with Tyler Santos as well. Goodwin over Jordan Robertson. Yes. The fact of that fight played on the feet for like 30 seconds of the 15 minutes was unbelievable. to me. And Tyler Sentos just dominated Julian Robertson on the ground the entire

time. She gathered herself in there were some tough positions there, but Santo stayed so composed in those moments. She's legit, man. I think so. I think so. I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, there's, what was Santos is his last picture? Was it McCann? Was that? Molly McCann? Yeah. So that's

two fights in row. And she had trouble making flyweight before? It's, I thought, or, okay, so she's, okay, so she's, So she's not one of those like, well, if she can make flyweight, she's great. No, I like her a lot. She has a lot of potential. I don't know how good she is, but I definitely see her in the top 10. And I think we're going to be, I think she's going to be around for a while. I think she's going to be a contender.

And, yeah, like she, like Robertson was doing great in the ground, was putting her submissions. But yeah, like you said, Santos handled it. She was in submissions. She worked her way out and got out of them and stayed in a dominant position. Very impressive. Very impressive. I was picking Robertson to kind of dominate on the ground.

round and I was wrong. There was a lot of hype around Tyler Santos coming into the UFC off the Contender Series. And then she, dude, she laid, she laid such an egg against Mara Romero Borrella. Like what a terrible debut that was. It was bad. I'm sorry. It was horrible. A horrible debut.

Yeah. She almost stole it. Yeah. She was just like, I was like, what are you doing? What is happening right now? But she seems maybe those octagon jitters are as legit as, you know, Joe Rogan likes to talk about. But, man. she's come back in a big way. The McCann fight was super

impressive. That was an eye-opener. And then to do that to Julian Robertson, she's on her way. She could be a wildcard pick for on to the next one, very easily. Could be. Could be. Do we have anything else, Casey?

Did we have that last question? Oh, yeah, last question. But because we didn't even mention it, my biggest shocker of the night, honestly, was Panny Kinsad. I thought, you think. Oh, Panty Kanzad. I thought, I thought, I thought, you bank's, I mean, I've,

I've always thought U-Banks was very good, and we just, she just kind of, despite her record, she just kind of never hit that potential. And I feel like every fight, oh, this is the fight where U-Banks is really going to, like, show it. And I thought, I thought, and like, I like Panic-Gonzazzo. She thinks she's an exciting fighter, but I never really thought of her as an elite bantam weight. And, man, she just, she works, she's getting better. She's just getting better. And I don't think Panne-Gonzah is going to be fighting for a title, but I thought

she was going to get whipped up tonight, and she did great. I was impressed. Just want to give her a shout out. She learned a lot. She learned a lot from the Giuliavula fight. She got beat up pretty badly. Annie's only lost to like very high level fires in the UFC. Yeah.

Yeah. And her in big debt. Yeah. Her losses in general, yeah. Yeah. Her UFC debut was a featherweight too. Let's not forget. Well, yeah, because you get the whole tough thing.

Ultimate fight area. So last, last question. We talked about Carrera, but did we mention what we want to? next for Chaos? What's nice? Well, this question isn't, because this question says, what's nice for Michelle in Chaos? Oh, then, oh, an edible, one of those edible arrangements?

Elfay, 2021. Yes, that would be nice. Since we probably will be talking about this, AK, let's give the folks a little preview of onto next one. What is next for one Chaos Williams? Because, I mean, I don't think you can go wrong, but anything to stick out to you? I see, I need a little. a lot of research before. No, okay, I'll say. I don't think he like, I mean, again,

he almost kind of won tonight, right? So it wasn't like a bad performance at all. I do wonder how the matchbreakers are going to view him. I certainly wouldn't treat it as a win. We've seen, we've seen matchbreakers do that sometimes where a fight is, if they thought it went the wrong way, they'll say, oh, we essentially book it like a win and move him up. So I don't know if I'd go that far, but I've got, I'm looking at my rankings here. What is up with Songkanon? Where'd he go? I know that seems kind of random. them, but that's, I'm just saying I have them in that, that's general vicinity. That's a, it's a good question.

I want to say he's booked. I think Max Griffin might be interesting. It's a little bit, you know, quite a bit more UFC experience, but I like the matchup, though. I'm just throwing out there. My answer, my answer on the next one show will probably be very different. But again, I'm not, I know people are like, oh, you know, I'm sure they're thinking, I don't know who these people are. Why are you kind of naming these random names?

I think we need to dial it back with Caswellames. I don't, I'm not a fan of someone getting too big. make knockouts or whatever, and just shooting them up the rankings. I know it's fun to do. I know it's fun. It's why, you know, we have a matchmaking show. We should just be picking fun matchups, but let's scale it back. I think there were deficiencies shown in this fight, whether you thought he won or not.

I do think there were deficiencies shown. I'd like to scale it back. I just want to see him facing something a little, you know, a little more closer to him in experience. Pahara was a good matchup. So I'm saying, stick with that. I'm not looking at throwing them in there with a UFC veteran is what I'm saying. Yeah, who, who, they're not pushing chaos.

I feel like that he's got appropriate fights every single time. Oh, no, I'm just saying. I think, again, if you see, like, the responses when we do throw out, like, oh, who's next for Chaoswell? It was after his last fight. People just throw wild stuff. Let's go, like, top 15, top 20 guys. And it's like, settle down.

We're all very excited. He looks like a very, he's a very promising fighter. Let's, let's scale it back to someone again. Maybe a name that's not going to pop off the page, but there's all kinds of, uh, well, it's a very deep division. There's all kinds of people within his range that I think are good, logical matches for him. It's easy because he's on his fighting Max Griffin, March 20th. You're joking, and I just named both of them.

Well, it's easy. I have the answer. I have the answer to this question, by the way. What about? I'll throw it out there, but is, what would you put? Is Brandon Moreno too high or too low for chaos? Brandon Moreno? Not Brandon.

Brandon. Brandon is a flyaway. They are out. Alex Marano. Sorry. You know, we already. Oh, my God. You're right.

They are in Houston. Rematch. That's what I mean. That's what I mean. Chaos is kind of this weird spot where, like, you want to kind of push him back in the line, but Moreno just fought freaking Pettus, you know? So, you know what I mean? Like, he lost, but yet, I don't know.

It was like matchmaking is very odd. Yeah. So, Chaos. Casill was just fought twice. What, twice in like two months? Like, he had a very quick turn around. Like, he got one of the knockouts of the air. And then, like, four days later, he was already booked to fight Michelle ahead on this cart.

So give him some time. Let him heal up a little bit. There is a gentleman who has needed to heal up himself, kind of had a health scare, looks to be turning, coming around. Chaos Williams versus Brian, Brian Barbarina is the fight to make. Oh. Those two, just get in there. Yeah, I didn't.

A.K., you were just talking about don't give him a veteran. That's why. I don't know that one either. I didn't say it. Mike might be my best friend, but I don't speak for him, okay? All right, we have different opinions on things, all right? I don't support everything he said, just those are best friends. You are DMing me right now saying that is a great decision, Mike.

Yeah, like we have a private chatting. You're just like going to like. Jose has a thought. Jose. Save us. What do you like? Save us. Daniel Rodriguez.

Ooh, I like that one too. I like that. They both had a hype. They both lost. They both lost, like game opponents. Like they don't have anything to hang their head on losing. So it's a fun fight.

They both also don't talk a lot. Like they're just too intimidating cats that break, break on people. do it Dwight Grant he didn't he lost to Daniel Rodriguez Is that his last fight He's coming off in L2

Yeah He's got He just lost the fight because of the coach He's supposed to fight this weekend He's supposed to fight today I think Oh last week He's got to diff that one Do we have a non-matchmaking question to go out

Yeah Non-match making We fifted a little bit But again The UFC doesn't make fights that we want Right exactly You can name all the route What is a non-match

I don't want to talk about The gentleman is too many to talk about the lawsuit. I know everyone was like a lawsuit. And there's nothing to say, honestly, there's not a lot to say about it. Yeah, you can read articles, yeah. No, no, not just that.

It's an in-progress case. There's really nothing we can speculate on that's going to give you more information, unfortunately. I did ask Chaos any no-sled it about the James Krause matchup because him and Buckley are teammates. And it seems like the only reason this fight isn't being made is because Krause wants it at 170 and Buckley wants it at 185 and neither seems to be bending.

Chaos is that one-s-sand-eat-eat-eat-eat-event. Chaos is that one-7. why don't you just step in there and do the damn thing? Chaos knows all the he goes, dude, those two have their own beef, ain't my business. Just like you know what I'm like, Mike, just because we're best friends. We're best friends. We don't have the same. We don't agree on everything.

We don't have the same enemies. You know, yeah, we don't fight each other's battles, right? Right, exactly. We're just like Chaos Williams. We're the Chaos Williams and Joaquin Buckley of the MMA media. That's right. Do you have anything else? Are we all good?

Of course. Yeah, I think we're good. I think we're going to have. Yeah, I think we've done. Okay. Listen, we're going to have, we have tons of programming talking about this card. So don't you if we can worry about it. If you have more questions, bring them in, bring them on Wednesday for the A-Side Live chat with.

Thank you, everyone. Thank you, everyone. We appreciate all of you. Lots of post-fight shows. What is this? 24 in a row. 24 Saturdays in a row. We did this.

I think that's right. Yes. Yep, 24 in a row. This was it. Jesus, and it's been an honor and a privilege here in 2020. I feel like we're saying goodbye. We're just saying so long until we, until January 16th, we do this all over again when Calvin Cater and Mack Powell,

I do the damn thing. And that's going to be a hell of a fight. So I'm excited for that. So in the meantime, me and AK will see you probably tomorrow, if you're a subscriber to the podcast network for onto the next one. I'll get it Monday. But for Jose Casey Lidenen, AK, I am Mike Heck. Good night, everybody.

Thanks for watching us for the post fight. show final one in 2020 you're listening to the vox media podcast network