MMA Fighting - UFC Vegas 20 Post-Fight Show

Episode Date: February 28, 2021

With UFC Vegas 20 in the books, MMA Fighting’s Mike Heck, Alexander K. Lee and E. Casey Leydon are joined by UFC, Strikeforce, PFL and Invicta veteran Sarah Kaufman to break down the top storylines from Saturday night’s event at the APEX, including the results of the heavyweight main event between Ciryl Gane and Jairzinho Rozenstruik. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Alexander K. Lee: @AlexanderKLee Follow E. Casey Leydon: @ekc Follow Sarah Kaufman: @mmasarah Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Well, good evening once again, ladies and gentlemen. I hope you all enjoyed UFC Vegas 20. The card is officially in the books, capped off by a one-sided unanimous decision win for Cyril Gahn over Jarrazini Rosenstrike, and it is time to react to the card, the main event and everything else with all of you right here on our live post-fight show on MMAfighting.com.

I am Mike Heck, and joining me to discuss this card and answer your questions, react to your thoughts tonight. We have Alex K. Lee, the Prince of Positivity, back with us. Hello, sir. Hello. We have... Nobody cares about me, Mike. We got a special guest.

Keep going. Keep going. Nobody cares on me. Oh, yes. We have E. Casey Liden. The main event... There we go. The main event, Nostradamus.

Casey. And then we do have a very special guest joining us. UFC veteran, Strike Force veteran, PFL veteran, the former Invicta champ. And someone with her phone always. on for that call to get a well-deserved opportunity back with the UFC. Let us say hello to Sarah Kaufman, joining us on the program. How are you, Sarah? Oh, I'm good.

Thank you. I did not know that Alex, his nickname, was the, what do you say, the Prince of Positivity? Yes. I mean, that's, it's not bad. I like it. I don't like him, but I like it. That's all we ask for. I'll take it.

I'll take it. Not bad. Yeah, I'm okay. The nickname is great. I'm like, whatever. Whatever, man. Well, Sarah, it is great to have you here with your expertise. It is needed with this group.

No doubt about that. But let us talk to the main events before we get to the peeps. And for you guys watching right now, give us your thoughts, your reactions on everything in the chat. We'll get to them momentarily. But Sarah, Cyril Gan, big win over Jarrazina Rosenstrike wasn't the most aesthetically pleasing mixed martial arts main event you'll ever. receipt, but Sierra Gond did what he had to do to win. He's 8-0 now, climbing up the heavyweight ranks. First main event gets it done. What did you think of Sierra Gahn's performance tonight? I actually thought it was a really good fight. I mean, in the realm of like crazy fights and

five-round main events, I get that it's not necessarily the fight that the, you know, the general people want to watch for 25 minutes. However, I do think that he did what he needed to do. I thought he looked good. I thought he fought a really smart fight. He stayed busy against someone who is clearly, you know, ready to knock him out, won't touch. So he played it safe, but I think that in doing so, that's actually pretty hard to do with the crowd. Maybe that would have gone over a little worse, because there would have been a lot of booing potentially. But as someone who's involved in the sport, I actually think that it was a smart fight, just maybe not going to gain him the most fans.

I would agree with everything you just said there. A.K., what did you think of Sierra Gahn's performance? 8-0 gets a big win, first main event. How did you think he performed? I thought he was very calm, cool, and collected heading in there tonight. Yeah, it was great, man. I think anyone who's seen Gone fight, even from, like, his third. I think the first time I saw him was when he won the TKO heavyweight title.

And I think that's still available on Fight Pass if you'll want to see that fight. And, like, just see him in his third pro bout, he's like one of the most mature. prospects I've ever seen. Beyond just obviously the athleticism and his other physical gifts, the way he fights is like it's not what you would expect from a guy coming up. He gets first round finishes, but he's not hunting for them. He's not a berserker.

He's highly technical. He's really educated. And you saw that tonight. And he had to be because Rosenstrike is also an experienced, educated fighter. It's just that in this situation, I think Gons' game plan was better. I think he's a bit quicker.

And I think his techniques were just like, which is so on point. And he knew to avoid how dangerous Rosentrick can be. I think up until the fifth round, we all thought that Jarazini could still land a knockout blow, but Gone was just really, really sharp and made sure that didn't happen. So again, yeah, maybe it's not the, you know, the big explosive heavyweight finish that we all like to see.

But it made sense for Gone, and I'm glad he fought the way he did. So a big, big statement for him. Yeah, I think gone kind of set the tone, Casey, about with the way this fight was going to go, because as we discussed in the preview show, Rosenstrike is a very powerful counter-striker, and Gahn wasn't given him any opportunities to counter. He was being patient,

he was letting Rosenstrike sort of come to him and made him pay with those jabs. Anytime Rosenstrike was getting ready to throw a big strike, he had a big jab to the face. And you kind of predicted that this would not be a barn burner that a lot of other people expected. That is how it played out. What did you think of Gahn's performance

in his first main event tonight? From an entertainment standpoint, from Dana White's point of view, that fight sucks. That was a horrible fight. 25 minutes of that was not good entertainment. For Streal Gone, though, wait, yeah. It was a perfect fight.

I mean, outside of winning the 50, he doesn't win the 50K for a big bonus, but he just needed, like, BISBing in the first three rounds, he kept saying, all that matters is winning, winning, winning, winning, winning is what gets you places in this sport. And that's what gone did. Now, toward the end of the fight, Bisbin got really bored. It was all like, he's not going to gain any fans. There were no fans there.

So his, gaining fans was not important for this fight. Because no matter, if he would have knocked out Rosenstreet in like two seconds, it don't matter. It don't matter. He wasn't jumping in front of John Jones. He wasn't jumping in front of Derek Lewis as far getting a potential title shot. So I thought gone did exactly what he needed to do. He fought, he got a W. He's moving up the rankings, still undefeated.

And he's going to fight even a higher, well, I guess, well, Rosen Stry was ranked three. So he'll fight, I don't know, he's one fight away, one fight away from a title shot right now. So, oh, great fight for gone. Crappy fight for the fans. Sarah, how important is, I mean, like Casey said, he goes out there and knocks out Rosenstrike in 20 seconds. Yeah, it's great. And, you know, it's a recency by a sport. Everyone celebrates it.

They're like, oh, let's do this and this and this. But I think Cage experience is super important for a guy like that, too. I mean, he was 7 and 0 heading into this fight. And now he just had his first main event. He gets a win. is just logging that time at this point in his career and doing it in a big spot at the same time. I think having that 25 minutes and having gone the 25 minutes, not gassing out, I actually thought the pace was not, again, like not a lightweight pace and not a flyweight pace, but I thought

it was a pretty consistent pace for the full 25 minutes. There was some, you know, holding on the cage, but it wasn't, you know, minutes and minutes at a time, which I think is especially where you get bored, but also where you can gas yourself out. I thought he still had good speed. He was still using his movement. He was using those front leg kicks a lot and just finding his rhythm, finding the ability to fight a smart game plan, stick to his game plan for a full 25 minutes against someone who's clearly fought many more opponents and also a lot of the best names and the biggest names in the sport.

it's going to help him a lot in the long run. And at the end of the day, he gets a win. And a year from now, people aren't going to remember if it was a one-punch knockout or a 25-minute fight. It's just going to go, as a win, he beat the number three guy. Now he moves up. He gets one more fight, gets the title fight. And, you know, next weekend there's fights.

The weekend after that, there's fights. The weekend after that, there's fights. People will forget whether this was the most exciting or the most boring fight. and just remember that he won. So I think for him, that was a huge step forward. Great for him. Yeah, I mean, you got to mind your peas and cues with a guy like Jarzina-Rosan-Stra. You can't get sloppy in there.

I mean, look what happened with the Alistair Overeign fight. 24 and a half minutes, Alistair Overeign is winning, and then it just takes one and changes the whole pace of the fight. So good win for Cyril gone. It's not a highlight real win, but it's a win, and it's a main event win. So good on him. He's on to bigger and better things. We'll see what happens with Jarsia-Rosent strike.

Of course, A.K. will be discussing what we think could be next for these, for both of these gentlemen on, on to the next one. Magamette Ancolaev gets a decision win in the co-main event, Montana de la Rosa versus Maira, Bueno Silva went to a draw. Pedro Munoz, Jimmy Rivera was awesome. Munoz gets the win there.

And then Bruce, Bruce Leroy, Alex Casares, gets his fourth straight win over the wild man, Kevin Krum. It was a, it was a good fight. Kevin Krum. It was a good fight. Crash Kevin Krum. We're still waiting on the bonuses. Any predictions for the bonuses here?

We only had one finish tonight from the newcomer Ronnie Lawrence. Stops Vince Cicero in the third round. Another referee letting some things go on. Probably a little bit too long, but it is what it is. Wasn't the most egregious late stoppage of all time. We've seen worse just over the last 48 hours if you are on Twitter and watching crazy fights and all those things play.

If that ref wanted just extended that really late stoppage, you can't have all decisions. That ref screwed it up, man. We had a world record decision card. Has there been a UFC card of all decisions yet? There's been one, right? I think there was one and there was 11. It was in Brazil, right?

There was 11 decisions and it was like crazy odds that it would go to all decisions. There was also a UFC event, I think, called knockout and there was no knockouts on it. I think there was submissions. I think there may have been a couple submissions, but there was a UFC event called knockout that had no knockouts on.

I don't know who, it was from what? It was from a fighter, but during the co-main event, you know, the UFC puts people's Twitter post up. For some reason, they never put mine up. I don't know why. But they put up someone's post and it says, for the co-main, it says, ain't no way this going the distance.

I saw that. I was like, ooh, this is totally going to distance. It's like the ultimate curse. You never say that. Ain't no way this fight going to distance. I think we've learned these lessons by now. But still, good win for Anka-Lyaf. He goes to full 15.

We'll see what happens with him, but a good win for him. Alexis Davis got a nice win. Tiago Moises looked awesome against Alex Hernandez, although Alex Hernandez wasn't a big fan of the decision. I completely agree with it. I thought it was a 30-27 win for Moises. Great debut for Ronnie Lawrence, stops Vince Cicero, and Dustin Jacoby

against Maxim Grish. It was a fun fight to kick things off. Very fun fight. Jacoby gets a decision. Could have gone either way, but I'm not mad about it. Can we talk about it? We have Sarah Kaufman here probably knows Alexis Davis better than anyone outside of Alexis Davis's like immediate family and friends.

You guys have fought three times. I think your second fight was probably one of the best, one of the best fights of that year. So what I want, I think there are some, there are some Alexis Davis questions in there. So I don't want to step over the viewers. But seeing that she was the under, yeah, she was the underdog, considerable underdog, I think, in this fight against such a younger, less experienced opponent. What was your read of sort of this fight going to? Were you surprised when you see, I know Mazel's a very talented fighter, so all the respect to her? Were you surprised when you kind of saw that a lot of people were kind of counting Alexis out?

No. Like, I know how good Alexis is, and I feel like Alexis has always fought, like, her best fights when I fought her, like our second fight. I mean, Esther took one of my favorite fight photos ever from that fight. and so I definitely know how she can be, but I think at 125 specifically, I don't think it was a great weight class for her. I think that she was losing a lot of size. And then she was kind of always seemed to be a little bit behind on the ball,

would get hit a lot, just didn't really seem to able to pull the trigger in a way that I thought that she has the ability to. And then tonight she just found those, the home for those leg kicks. And definitely that changed from that second round to the third round, how that fight was playing out. And then in the first round,

I was a little bit worried because she was getting caught on the end of those punches that Mazzo was throwing on the end range. She wasn't able to find her way in. And I did worry that that's how the fight was going to go, that she would kind of get planted and stuck on the spot

and kind of get pieced apart a bit. But once she got up to the ground, it just seemed like she figured something out, she adjusted her game plan, and then she looked great for the rest of that fight. There you go. Joseph Boza. I wish Sarah was back in the UFC.

she would do well in the women's band and weight division. I think we're all in agreement that she should be back there. We do a bonuses, friends. We got bonuses. We got bonuses. It's got to be double fight of the night. All right. Nope.

Nope. It's a perfect night. It's the perfect night for double fight of the night. All right, then. One fight of the night, one performance bonus. Oh, no. Who would you give double fight of the night? Casey?

I'm sorry? One performance bonus. I guess the one guy that finished the fight, right? Correct. That is. And we know what the fight of the night was. Yeah. Sarah was asking, who would you give the other fight of the night?

Oh, to the 25ers, the lady 25ers on Delirosa and Buenos Aires and Buenos Aires. Yeah, that was a great. That was a great fight. I scored it for Buena Silva, actually. I thought I had 29, 27. I thought she went all three rounds. And at the point deduction giving her 29. rather than 30.

But yeah, I thought she looked great. I thought it was a great fight in general. I agree. She's got a violent clinch that, that Buenos Silva. Good God. I would hope.

Oh, those knees. That was scary. I felt like the entire third round, De La Rosa was like hiding her face because she didn't want people to see, like, as soon as they broke apart, because they were on the cage for a while, she broke apart, and you were like,

whar. I was like, oh, yeah, those knees hurt. I hope that they gave sorry go ahead Sarah I was like I couldn't tell I couldn't tell what in that fight on some of the clinches

whether her hair was getting caught or not or just that she just didn't know how to get out of the clinch because she was reacting to me Deloosa was reacting as if like oh she's holding my hair which sometimes happens

and I mean if you you can get away with it you get away with it but I couldn't really tell and then I just think as the fight went on It was like her escape was bringing her head down, which just got her face into those knees one too many times, I thought. Was Buenos Aires, was she just not, I was, as much punishment as Deloosa was taking, I kept thinking, it's like, is she, is Buenos Aires just not doing something quite right?

Because like those knees seem to be landing super clean to the body into the head. I don't understand how Delozo actually just survived that 15 minutes, to be honest. she's insanely tough. Is it just toughness? Definitely part of it. Is that all it was there? Do you think? I think part of it is that she is very tough.

And I feel like in other fights, she's taken some pretty hard shots and just kind of that wrestler mentality of you just walk through something to just hold on for dear life to try and force that takedown. And she was successful a few times. I do think that a lot of the knees to the face

like glanced off, fortunately. It didn't, you know, she duck her head. down and then a rip her hat to try and get out of the way. And so I think in that way, she kind of managed to avoid some of the damage. But I thought the body shut, the knees of the body were great. And they looked like they did, they didn't feel nice to me. But I think that Delorosis is quite tough.

Yeah, she is a monster. She's very tough. She went 15 with Viviani and decided to like become a striker and a kickboxer in that fight, which is very surprising. but she went in there and did 15 minutes with Viviani Arrujo, who is very, very tough, and De LaRos is very, very tough as well. So if you're just joining us, fight of the night, no-brainer, Pedro Munoz versus Jimmy Rivera, such a good fight.

And the lone performance of the night, newcomer Ronnie Lawrence, guy is a savage. I think he had like nine or ten takedowns and gets the finish. He's just the pace, the back guy puts on is unbelievable, and he looked great in his Octagon debut. And the UFC saved an extra 50 grand too. Well, Casey, do you think there's any chance they gave the 50, the other 50 of Ronnie or maybe 25 each to Pedro and Jimmy?

Probably not, right? Again, I'm being Mr. positivity again. No, that's not unlikely. Yeah. No? The filthy rich, stay rich by just giving money away. That's all it works, okay.

So positive. They got to save on some salaries. I can hope. I can certainly hope. That's a bum. That's just a big bummer. They didn't do double fight of the night. I mean, good for Ronnie Lawrence.

Yeah. But, um, yeah. Sarah, before we go to the questions, I want to ask you, what did you think, like, what, what about Gons striking his footwork, his stance switches, his jabs? What, what, what, what about it made, um, made Gersigno so hesitant just to go in there and just, just attack, you know, just be more aggressive? of, is it just a fear of getting knocked out by gone? Like, or was there something, you see something kind of tricky of his footwork that just

put Jarzino kind of made it, made him hesitant for 25 minutes, essentially? I think there were a few things. I think one of the first things was that gone very rarely stopped moving. He kind of bounced the whole time. So he was on the balls of his feet, and he was doing those little level changes, little stutter steps, kind of covering the distance, fainting, coming back out. he was never planted and when you want to throw with power ideally you want someone to be planted so they can't run away from you because when you do you throw something as hard as you can if they back away there's a good chance you're off balance and you saw that a couple times um i don't remember it was like the fourth or the fifth but uh gone kind of timed rosentstrike coming in and he managed to throw i think it was a left cross and slowed out to his right as rosentrike was throwing left hook and he just like went flying and just ended up on a perfect angle out of range couldn't get hit so i think that that played

a huge factor and that was the first thing and i also think that he stood in that southpaw stance and super like sideways and linear almost which meant that it i think that if roys and struck had thrown a lot of those like low calf and outside leg kicks uh that would have changed how he stood but as it as it was with gone standing with that right foot forward and like really heavy lead. He was able to use it like really effectively to kind of do those like oblique and front kicks just off that front

leg which kept the distance and it made it again so that it was you know a lot of times just that swing and a miss and it just oh Sarah you didn't pay your you didn't pay your internet bill. What's going on? Sorry we'll get her back. It's this can it's this Canada internet

you guys know you guys know I have to deal with it all the time we'll get her back but but people please get your questions in and people step it up with the questions tonight all right because we have a real world champion here okay we have sarah koffman she'll be back with us in a second uh so please please none of this duval stuff that we usually do guys we all we shout duval to be like no no no no no tonight guys professional good question you guys always have good questions but i mean just like step it up just a little okay good see sarah's back am i here still we got you there you go you

you should pay your internet bill you good it's not her fault you It's Canada Internet. It's Canada Internet. To be fair, I only purchased Internet starting in June of last year. And I'm pretty sure I have, like, the cheapest Internet that you can get. So sometimes it's not great. So I do apologize for my $28 a month Internet. Sarah Kaufman being cheap.

Oh, so in brand. You know. Well, anyways, I don't know if you heard. I was just warning. I was just warning and cautioning our viewers to, to, class it up, class it up and have some really good questions because you, look, you were giving, you already, before you got cut off, we're in the middle of giving the kind of analysis and insight that we cannot possibly hope to give. I mean, I take a lot of pride in our work, but the

angle, obviously, you're coming from is much more educated and specific than we can offer. So people, this is the kind of answer. I already see some questions I think directed specifically towards Sarah. So I'm excited. I think. So Sarah, before you got cut off, though, would, do you think Jarzino basically needed to be, basically he needed to punish God? John's lead leg more. Because as far as I recall, I don't think he really attacked. I don't really think he attacked that right, Gons lead leg at, well, maybe a couple of times, but nothing of consistency.

Would that been a game changer if he would have maybe gone after a little bit harder? I think so. Yeah, if he was throwing kicks and if he was aiming for takedowns to try and pick up that leg or do something with that leg, those low calf kicks, those leg kicks, anything attacked in that front leg would have probably forced gone to change. and alter how he was standing and how he's moving in. But the fact that it wasn't attacked, and he was able to just keep using that right foot

to kind of do little taps, punch in, yeah, you know, and then do the little side kicks and the oblique kicks to that front leg, just stop Frozen Strike from closing that distance, and he'd get stopped every time he went to come in, and then didn't make gone change anything. All right. While we're talking about calf kicks, this is kind of segue.

Casey, I'm sure you see a lot of people asking how the cat kicks in the question. So I don't know if you're going to bring one of those up, but there's a lot of people asking. So Michael Bisman, I think he was joking on the, on the, and the pump-elders. They were kind of joking, yeah, about banning calf-kicks because we've just been seeing it so frequently. So kind of two questions. I mean, what do you think of that joke suggestion? And two, like, sir, how new is this technique? Like, for us, it's like, obviously you talk about it a lot now.

We're seeing it in a lot of fight. I think every fight, I feel like almost every fight tonight open with someone throwing calf-kicks. Is this that new or is this something that you've dealt with before and just people are only starting to notice it now? What's your thoughts on that? I think Benson Henderson was definitely one of the first people to really use it consistently. I read somewhere that someone posted, and maybe it was Sean Shelby posted that it was actually someone Wilson Raids maybe back in like 2010 might have used it down with ATT. But from what I remember, Benton Henderson was kind of the first guy who started using it. Everyone's like, what are you doing?

That's dumb. Like, kick them in the leg, make their thigh hurt, punch them in the face, kick him in the face. Like, why would you do that? That's so stupid. And now that people have gotten effective at it and are targeting it's not an accident. They've realized that, you know, one, two, three of those, all of a sudden that whole game plan changes and people can't move. And it is very hard to defend. It's hard to counter off of it.

I mean, your options are kind of like, get your leg out of the. the way. Try and turn your shin over, but if you lift your shin too high, you still get your calf hit. Try and punch through it, which might work, but again, you're taking damage, and you're not usually getting taken down off of it. So when you throw a regular leg kick, a lot of times people catch those, punch you in the face, even if you don't get hit, you lose balance, you fall down, now you're on the bottom. So I just think it's of all the trends, of all the stance switching and the oblique kicks and the shoulder throws and whatever else people have, you know,

over the years has been a trend that they thought the Superman punches that were a big thing. People figure them out and they kind of disappear. But I think more and more with the calf kick, it's just a really hard, a hard offense to stop and to be effective with. It doesn't take much effort to,

to be really effective. So until someone figures that out, I think that they're going to keep being effective. And I think, you know, they're going to decide a lot of fights and change dynamics. And I also think that in some ways, it's now going to force people to work their opposite side a little bit more. You know, I personally prefer to be orthodox almost all the time.

I think fundamentals are so important. But now all of a sudden, if that legs kicked out and you can't base on it and you're worried about someone kicking it one more time and the fight might be over, you might have to go switch stance. And in that switch stance, you need to be working defense and off because it's not,

you spend hours doing one way and maybe once in a while stand the opposite, that I think you'll start to see people developing that second side a little bit more for purely for the reason of saving that leg if it guts hit. I was thinking that one, I was thinking when I was seeing gone being just very light on his feet,

and a lot of time, He was just switching stances for no roke. Switching stances and they're not really attacking. And I think that was just, to me, when I was watching, that was just putting a little bit of hesitation in Jazeo if he was ever intending to attack the legs that have gone. And I also thought that with Jimmy Rivera. At some point, I was like, bro, switch stance.

And I don't think he, I think he did maybe in the final round, but it wasn't really effective at that point. Were you thinking that at some point? Like, once you get a good kick, Like during the Munoz Rivera fight, were you thinking, while you're watching like, Rivera, you got to switch to answer or do something.

What were you thinking, Sarah? I mean, I think that Rivera was so confident in some ways in like, okay, I can put him asleep with one shot. And those, like pretty much any shot that landed in that fight, everyone was like, ooh, ah, you could hear the power, you could see the power, both them were throwing with. And at the same time, he actually, landed a lot of leg kicks on on muno's as well so like pedro's calf i'm sure is going to be sore

because he didn't stick with it and i feel like pedro got a little bit ahead and then just kept chopping at it and whether it's a matter of just jimmy wasn't comfortable switching or if he thought that by switching he wouldn't have that push to drive off that back leg because that left leg was so compromised i'm not sure or maybe he just hasn't tried switching and just couldn't get it in his head that this is a good idea, knowing that you're against someone who's clearly so skilled that if you switch and your defense isn't there, you might just get knocked out. I'm not sure exactly why he wouldn't switch when it was that bad. I think it's either he was not confident or he couldn't because that leg was too far gone

and that he couldn't push off of it. All right. Have we covered calf kicks, gentlemen and ladies? For now, for now. for now for now all right there's always like different leg kick trends

remember remember um it was like John Jones was throwing the like push kick those like push front kicks to the legs and then Wonderboy was eating them from Darren Till and that created like kind of a problem because it like tore

like Wonderboy's knees completely up and he was just like I hate those I hate those things they shouldn't they should be banned and were like you're a karate guy Like, that's like your bread and butter. That's like a kick you through all the time.

So, yeah, and then we don't always see those as much anymore. I was going to say, I was going to say, I am of the thought. I don't love when people just kick straight to the knees. I think if you want to kick the thigh, that's fine. Like, if I want to get arm-barred and I don't tap and I want my arm to snap in two, that's my choice. And that's kind of part of the fight game. But if someone just stomps on my knee and my knee just explodes,

there's no option for me to tap to that. You know, yes, it's a good defense, but in the realm of sportsmanship, it, you know, is potentially career ending or it puts you out for, you know, nine months a year if your knee entirely explodes and blows out and you lose an ACL. So I think that any kind of technique

that's like direct to a joint where you don't have the option to say, I'm out, should be illegal. if other things like knees to the head on the ground are illegal. Like, I would rather have knees to the head on the ground than someone stomped my knee out and in one strike, you know, I'm potentially done. That's how I feel about it.

Like you're not allowed to hit someone in the back of the head. I also think shouldn't be able to stomp on someone's direct knee joint. Yeah. So do you think it's kind of like almost an unwritten rule amongst fighters now to just not do that anymore? Because we don't see it as much anymore, even though it's super effective. No, I think that people would do it if they think that it's going to be effective, if it's going to work.

But I think when you go, you have to be so confident in throwing them and you have to be so accurate in throwing them because if you miss, people now are you're just getting punished for them. And I think that's what you saw with Holly and Amanda Nunes actually. Holly likes those sidekicks and those oblique kicks. And one of the reason she got knocked out was she went to do that oblique kick from her front leg. she missed, fell to the inside as she stepped out, Amanda stepped over and head kicked her in the face. If you watch that, she actually tries to throw that right sidekick to the thigh. And whether it's Amanda moves or she just misses, I don't exactly remember, but I remember watching it, she slips to the inside, steps out, gets kicked, and that's the end of the fight.

So I just think it's riskier to throw them. I need to rewatch that. See? Yeah. We wouldn't get that kind of insight from Jose Young's. just throw on that out there. We get a lot of wonderful things from Jose, okay, when he's on the show. But yes, this is a Sarah Coppin special right here.

But what anime does Mananuna's like? Okay. What a, what are the peep said? No, we're going to talk, we'll talk dancing shows where we talk anime of Sarah's around, all right? We're not talking anime of Sarah's hair. All right, questions, questions. All right. So let's go to that.

Do do, do, do. Let me buy them one. So it looks like in terms of the three bonus awards, the last time that happened was UFC 208, apparently. And what was that? Do you know who that was? I was there, so what was I have no idea.

I was there as well. That was not the best card ever. I would say, Porier Miller must have got a fight of the night. What was 2A8? What was the main event? That was the pro. Holly Holman and Jermaine Durandami.

Oh, that was the Brooklyn card. Oh, I do not. Yeah, that was a horrible night for everyone. I don't remember. Not for Germain. Germain won the dang title, and I thought that was even a good night for her. Like, that was just, oh, man. I'm trying to remember if there was even a finish on that card. Porre and Jacques, eh, that's it.

Oh, Jacaree, that's what it was. The only finish. The only finish. Before we get to the actual fights, we have this question. When will we see Sarah fight again? Well, this is a tough question because I am pretty much always available and always looking for a fight. Although, I mean, this might be gross, but I'll show you guys anyway. So I actually just had surgery on my foot.

Can you see it? Oh, yeah, that's a foot. Yeah. Oh, wait, hold on. Keep it there. Keep it there. See it again? Oh, sorry.

Hold on. We currently, it's, ugh. Oh, this is like a weird fetish thing. You know, this is probably the most views you've ever had. Anyways. Felice Herrick's mad right now. You're putting in on police Herrick's character. Police Herrick is furious right now.

Yeah, so I, back to fighting it. I just had like a minor surgery to fix some small things that were going wrong with my toe with some bone spurs and that kind of thing. So it's actually, it's only been a couple weeks, but it's already, I did some of light rolling today and boxing. So a couple more weeks and then again I will be ready to go. I'm still at a place where I could make weight tomorrow if I needed to make weight. And I tried to stay in good shape. I stay in cardio shape. I stay in technical, you know, sharpness and work on all my skills. Really, I'm just out here looking for a fight guys. I don't know. No fight me. But it also doesn't help that COVID has kind of shut down a lot of the options. And I know that.

that at this point, 135ers, the main division is in the UFC. In Victor, like I loved fighting for them, but, you know, just didn't really have enough opponents.

Like, I knew that it was a bit of a struggle with experience, you know, with me having now, you know, 27 fights and some of the girls there are only having a few,

just commission-wise, sometimes they won't put those fights together. So, I will fight anywhere for, at 135. ideally I want to be the best in the world and know that I can be the best in the world. And so for me, that is currently in the UFC. But as of yet, no options have come up.

I do think that if I can get a fight before then just to have a win coming off of the loss at 155, that that would definitely help my cause. But I'm always going to put my name, you know, if something comes up, short notice, I'll always put my name in that. And hopefully at some point it gets chosen. If not, then I'll just keep doing what I'm doing and bettering myself as a martial artist and eventually find that opportunity. You know, yes.

Belthor has, I think, teased the possibility of 135. Beltor didn't have 135, but man, if they did a Grand Prix and Sarah Kauffman was not involved, that'd be ridiculous. That'd be straight up ridiculous. So hopefully that happens. I don't know. We need Sarah. We need you at the Mohegan Sun Arena in glamorous Unconsville Connect.

etiquette getting ready for an opening and a grandfrey turn out. I'm just saying it has to be done. So I think that would be a great spot. I know again, U.S.C. of course, like they, I don't know why they haven't called you up, but I think a Belator Grand Prix with you in it would be just awesome. Yeah, Bellator 135. I'm in. Mm-hmm. Hmm.

Okay. We got a Seahawks fan, Seahawks fan 91. Does anyone else know that Alex Kassarer, is on a four-fight winning streak. I find that hard to believe considering his up-and-down career. I will say I knew he was on a four-fight winning streak. I know it's kind of an under-the-radar forefight winning streak,

but it is a four-fight winning streak nonetheless. But Caseras took on a wild man in Kevin Krum. He was crash indeed, and Casas showed that even though he fought a guy with a lot of experience, there's a difference between fight experience and Octagon experience. And Casares has a shitload of Octagon experience as he showed in that fight. So, Sarah, let me ask you.

Sorry, AK, didn't mean to get all New England on you and start throwing out S-bombs. But here we are. Sarah, what did you think of Alex Casares's performance tonight against an absolute wild man and Kevin Krum? Yeah, I enjoy watching him a fight. And some of those, like that, those triangles, I enjoyed that he also admitted that his legs were gassing. And so he almost didn't try to get the finish in some ways, too, because a lot of people would be like, oh no I just didn't have it or they kind of make up an excuse for why they didn't get it as opposed to just being like well honestly I knew that he was going to keep coming and that I needed my legs

and and they were kind of burnt out but I just thought he fought a really smart fight and I mean someone who's like constantly kind of running in and pressuring you know he nearly got the finish towards the end there I like watching a fight but I'm not going to lie I did not know that he was on a four-fight win streak but I also don't know that many people are on four-fight win streaks because there are often so many fights that I can't keep up that if I don't watch them live, I just don't really watch them unless it's kind of pertaining to a friend that I have that's fighting or someone in my division I'm keeping an eye on. So I didn't know that, but I am happy for him and hope that he gets kind of a step up.

Because where's even ranked? The division's just pretty crazy. Like, he's ranked or is he not ranked? He's not ranked? No. I don't think he's ever broken. top 10. Not top 10,

top 15, which you love, Casey. You love time with top 15. It is a thing. It is a thing. It is. It is your number 12,

Casey. It is it your number 12. Yeah. You're number 16. Top 16 is all that matters. Exactly. Exactly. It's all about managing

expectations perspective, Casey. It's funny for Caseras. This is actually his, I mean, technically he had a five-fight win streak a few years ago. It was erased by a no contest.

One of the fights turned to a no contest because he was smoking the weeds, you know, which we don't approve up here in MMAFighting.com for the record. Don't approve that kind of behavior. But regardless, I think it's a little unfair. He technically should have been on a firelight. Are you speaking for, whoa, you speaking for the whole site here? I am speaking for the whole, yes, I am the corporate representative of boxmedia,

espionation.com. We do not approve the smoking of the weeds. So, uh, oh, it seems like you sound sorry. It seems like your internet went down, AK. I'm sorry. Oh, I'm back on. Sorry. Yes, I was trying to, yes, I'm miming,

miming it now. What did I? Oh, gosh, I had a point now. I had a point to make. Why don't you stop smoking that wacky tobacco? Yeah. It's missing with my brain, see? Absolutely.

You said he had a five fight, but then the one fight got taken away because of the smoking weeds. Yeah, the smoking of the weeds, yes. No, no, so, oh, yeah, sorry. What I actually wanted to ask was about Kroom specifically because you mentioned, oh, well, two things. First about Krum was, in your experience, like, did you find it easier or more, and it's not a binary question, obviously, it probably depends who it is, but did you find it easier or more difficult if it was an opponent that you knew was like unpredictable, you know, not someone that was going to follow a specific game plan? I mean, would you prefer that kind of opponent or did you prefer those who you were like, okay, well, I know what this person's like, I know how good they are. but at least I know what they're coming with.

I mean, what was your, you know, what would be your preference? It's, there's always more on the line when it's someone who is unconventional. So it's, if the expectation is that you're going to run through someone, but they have this super weird style, it's definitely harder in my mind because I'm a pretty standard fighter to kind of deal with the craziness of something that shouldn't land but does, as opposed to someone who throws a good fundamental jab or, a hook or a normal takedown, when someone just dives for something, it creates these scrambles. And if they have the conditioning to just be an insane person and just jump on anything

and throw anything from any angle, it often takes a little while to kind of figure that out. And then the goal is always slow them down or just be one step ahead of them and don't let them get to that crazy stage. But I also think, Cindy Dandwa, so she is not the most conventional of fighters, I would say. And yet she's won against so many people who are really good because she just commits to doing what she's doing. It doesn't look pretty, but she makes it happen. And people struggle in that style to try and combat that.

So I definitely think that the wildness and the kind of somewhat spontaneous reactions of people for me are more challenging than someone who is a fundamentally structured athlete. Hmm. There we go. All right. Casey, let me ask you. We'll get to Joseph's question in a second.

AK and I will answer this question tomorrow. But Casares, after the fight, he says, I want a top 15 guy. Been here long enough. I deserve a top 15 guy. Do you agree with him? Should he get a top 15 guy after that victory tonight? I don't see why not. I could see him getting someone, like it's Shane Burgos,

someone coming off a loss who's been out for a while. And I think, yeah, someone like that. I see him getting a top, yeah, someone that's a top 10, top 15 guy that's coming off a loss. I think that's who the UFC should probably match him up with. All right. I also think he's going to get a top 15 guy. Have one in mind. And you'll find that out tomorrow.

Oh, yeah. Joseph Boza is, yes, I'm good at that. I'm like Ryan Seagreb's up in here. Is Magamette, is Magamette Ankleis? I knew Sarah like that one. Sarah like that one. Without the hair. Without the hair.

We'll have the decision right after the break. Is Ankyla has somebody to look out for in the Light Heavyweight Division after his debut? He was probably nervous for versus Paul Craig. He's racked off six wins in a row. A.K., we'll start with you. I think I would say yes. Ankelaif is somebody to look out for in the light heavyweight division. But do you look at him right now and say, this dude can fight for a title sooner

sooner rather than later? All the way, all the way. What I say this year, doubtful, but I mean, I consider sooner any time within the next two years, I would not be surprised at all. I'm so impressed those skills. Joseph mentions the Paul Craig fight. He dominated that fight. He dominated the Paul Craig fight up until the end when he got caught by Paul Craig

last second magic, which he's not the only fighter that's happened to. So certainly no shame in that. But yeah, I mean, even if you take that fight into account, that to me does not diminish, like, what an exciting prospect this guy is. So, yeah, I'm really high in Ancolaev. I thought he would finish Khralov, but Khrlov is really good as well. So, again, it's not like, I think less of Ankalyev because he couldn't get the job done. If anything, the fact that he found a way to sort of neutralize such a dangerous opponent and kind of adjust his game plan. I'm sure he was hoping to get an early finish.

But he got, you know, sort of a more measured Krilov. and he matched him in that sense. He just looks to have the whole, like, well-rounded skill set that we look for in a UFC champion. So I don't know if he can go all the way and win it. We don't know what the 205 divisions really actually the top is even going to look like a year from now.

But could he contend for a title? Yeah, I'd actually, I'll say this. I'll go as far as I'll be surprised if he does not compete for a UFC title someday. There you go. What did you think of Anglives performance, Sarah? I felt like so many of the fights tonight were very well-rounded as mixed martial artists.

you know, you saw like the wrestling transitions mixed in with the striking. You saw like really nice range and distance. And I thought that that that's what he brought to that fight. You know, he stayed patient. He stayed composed. He landed some, when he threw, he threw with power. And then he utilized his wrestling and his kind of jiu-jitsu when it wasn't necessarily fully expected, given how the striking was going, I thought.

So I enjoyed the fight. I thought it looked really good. And, yeah, I liked it. That's all. Is he a future title contender? Do you see him facing? I don't know, whoever's going to be champion. In some ways, I feel like I can't even like really picture who the 205 division is sometimes

because I just feel like I don't see them fight very often. But I know that they do fight. But I just, to me, not a division that stands out in my mind as these are the 205 fighters. Sorry. I think he's very good. I don't know if he'll see him fight for a title, but yeah, he's obviously good. And he can knock people out,

and if he has to slow the fight down and grind out a decision, he can do that, which is good for winning. Not necessarily great for fans that want that violence, but that's smart fighting, and that's what wins the championships. And now that Jones is out of the, not counting John Jones,

he now has the longest, win. Six is the long, he was tied with Groveridge's chair. Now he has the longest win streak at 205. So definitely one to watch. Yes, I think he will be a tough out,

Tristan. No doubt about that. It's definitely a guy to keep an eye on. He's only going to get better. Is he in, like, I think he's in Vegas right now too. I think this is the concern for him now. I wonder if people aren't going to want to fight him. I think he's a bad style of this magic for a lot of the guys

that are in the top 10. He doesn't quite have the name value that probably some of these guys are looking for. And I think he's really dangerous. So this is the only thing that's really going to slow him down is I think some people are not going to be jumping at the chance to fight him. Oh, absolutely not.

Why would you want to fight him? Yeah. Today, I'm still working on how to pronounce his name correctly. That's what I mean? Because he's up and he's, I was like, oh man, I'm going to start saying this guy's name a lot. Like he's, we have lots of fighters in the UFC. I'm like, okay.

you know, they find a finite prelimbs, no, whatever. But like, oh, he's going to be a main card dude pretty soon. And yeah, and the guy's like that next wave, that the new generation of two of fivers, he's part of it. So get used to it. Yeah, but yeah, I don't see guys lining up to fight him. I actually think he's in a great spot right now because the whole top six, every one of those guys, they're booked.

So one of two things can happen. He either gets the loser of like any three of those fights, which, how are you going to say no coming off a loss? Or he didn't take a lot of damage tonight at all. So what's to say somebody falls out? You can slide him right back in, especially if he's training out at Vegas and he's going to stick around for a little while. So I actually think he's in a pretty decent spot right now as opposed to like getting into the number eight spot, which you probably will become Tuesday. And then like all the top seven, none of them have fight books. and they're like, nah, I don't want to fight this guy.

Now you can just slide him in, and he's actually in a really good place right now. So I think the timing is really good for him to make a move at this point in time. We'll see. We'll see. That's smart. That's a smart analysis. Mike, you're a smart guy.

I say, I say this to him all the time. I say, Mike, you're a smart guy. I'm glad he gets to hear it from a pro from someone whose opinion matters to him, because I know sometimes, you know, people like Casey, I can say it doesn't mean anything, but he hears it from a pro. Now it, you know, take, please, Mike, take that, please. Excellent, excellent, excellent. All right.

I'm right. I'm right. I'm right. I'm right. I'm right. Yes. Yeah, yeah, please. Put that out there on social media.

Yes. My wife will be so proud. We're going to frame this clip somehow in the wall. It's just going to loop it. With the foot. With the foot. Yeah, there it is again. You know, and that foot showed up.

And all, we got all these thumbs. up. All the view counts one up is crazy. The foot shows up. Spiked. Spiked. Yeah. What else we got? Thank you, Tristan. Tristan, always, Tristan Gordead, always coming through with something. I appreciate that. You know he's going to be on to the next one, too. Oh, absolutely. Okay. Pedro Munoz calls O T.J. Dillashaw, as every Bannam White has, who wins the Dillishaw fight out of all the callouts? I feel like this is a very popular question coming out of these events because there's always high-level banamweight fights on all these cards. So Casey, now we have another entry into the Dillishaw sweepstakes, one, Pedro Munoz,

the likelihood of him getting that fight. And who do you think is the favor right now to get a fight of that level? I don't think it's Pedro Munoz, unfortunately. It's smart for him to do that call-out. If Dillishal is not fighting for the title next, which if he's not fighting the winner of Jan Aljo, Which I don't think he deserves, I don't think he deserves because of the EPO suspension. The only, the fights that makes sense would be, to me, if you're going to put him at the top of the line, someone like San Hagan,

to get San Hagan still needs that. For some reason, I don't think the fans are still behind him 100% as far as, like, you know, a championship, no main event pay-per-view type guy yet. And he needs to be a guy I did a shot. That's what Munoz realises too. He needs to beat, everyone needs to beat Dillishaw for some reason to become the next, no, Dillishaw type star in Bantanweight Division. So I don't think it's going to be Munoz, unfortunately. But, man, Munoz is awesome.

I think he's a very underrated, very, very underrated 135er. I dug the call out a lot. Sarah, what would you do if he had the mighty pencil besides sign yourself to the UFC, which is well deserved? What would you do with T.J. Delosha? Who should he fight in his comeback? he could fight me and then I could just fight in whatever division

you know is available but you weigh the same you weigh the same no I know but I'm saying like you know we could just make a genderless division and then anyone

who doesn't fit into having someone agree to fight them in another division they could just come to our division see the whole time I know it's not no it's not dumb because we're the where I was talking about new weight class I said, oh, we need $165.

We need a $1.995. Turns out we need a genderless division. That was the issue. Thank you, Sarah. Yeah. I'm going to tell you to bring up Dana next time when you talk to him. Yeah, or like an outskirts division. Like, I'm the pale Canadian female that no one wants to fight at 135.

And he's, you know, a former champion who did some steroids because, or EPOs and then wanted to come back. You know, we could just, we could just, we could. be the outliers. Yeah. Or this is like Survivor. You guys are like on Exile Island. This is like your chance to get back to get back onto the island proper as it were. You just have to have to fight for it.

That's right. I would love that. But I agree that I agree that I don't think that he should get an immediate title shot. I think that he lost that right when he made whatever decisions he made. And it's also being a lot of time. And a lot has happened in the division. And that division is amazing and has so many talented people right now. But he should have to fight.

before it. The one fight I don't want to see, I do not want to see Jose Aldo. Yeah, Jeremiah, I agree with you. I do not want to see Jose Alto fighting T.J. Dilloshab because I'm just such an Aldo fan and what

Aldo's amazing, I just don't want to see it. I don't think that it's a great fight for him with all the extra movement that TJ does. I don't want to see that fight, mostly because I'm a fan of Aldo and I don't think that he'd win. But I do think, yeah, I think San Hagan would be a great fight.

San Hagan's, you know, clearly on the app. I agree with Casey. Give him that fight. If he gets the win, then he can challenge for the title. If he doesn't, Corey's in a great place. You know, he's being the former title holder who didn't actually lose his belt. He just had to give up his belt. And then he should get to fight for the title next.

I'm a break of a record here. You know what I'm going to say. You know what I'm going to say. I love that fight. Yeah. There's one, there's only one fight to make. It's Dillashaw versus Faber. That is the fight.

That is the fight. There's heat there. If you're going to do it, you have to do it now. And it's like, it doesn't matter. Like the divisions, like let the log jam play out. Let Dillishaw fight favor. Let the heat go. You can headline any card with that fight.

Dillishaw probably wins. And then do, then do whatever you want to do with them. Just give him one more fight to get his feet wet. Do it with Faber. Get the ratings. Get the heat. Stories there. It's right there.

It's right there for you. you. Mike, I love it. But, go ahead, sir. Yeah. Did FAPR not retire? Did I miss something? Did he retire and come back?

Yeah, he came back. And he's kind of said, after he came back, he's kind of said, I'm still definitely, like I'm not fighting regularly, but I'm more than happy to take, you know,

on a case-by-case basis of certain fights gets set my way, I will definitely, you know, definitely consider it. That's one he would obviously sign up for. I think, you know, the question was asking,

which callout would be rewarded. And I think there's one callout that's still to be done. I wonder if Dominic Cruz would call out T.J. Should he get past Kenny? And that's the one that Dill Shal would definitely be interested in. That's a win. I think he would want to get back. So if we're just talking callouts and I know there's a hypothetical one,

I wonder if Cruz would call him out and then set up that rematch. And Dillishaw would definitely say yes. But Casey, there's a question, which I think you're going to love. I don't know if you saw it from Terrence Leverett about open and scoring. Oh, is it? Oh, God. Did you see this? Well, no, no, that's good.

But we've talked about it ad nauseum. We might have even talked about the last time we had Sarah on like the A-Side or something. It probably has already come up with Sarah. But there's nothing wrong with revisiting it. Very meta. Very nice. Very meta. Terrence Lever, it's asking, in regards to the Alex Hernandez result,

because Alex Fernandez was very surprised that he lost the Moises. I think we all were scoring at home for us watching. We all thought Moises. It was a close, it was a good fight, but I think we most of us stopped Moises 1. He was very surprised. And I know Casey, you had tweeted about how different it would have been if Fanda's this team had open scoring information. So this question, so Terence Lever specifically asking, what does Sarah think of open scoring?

I like it. I think that if you're going to give, you know, most sports, you know what the score is at all times. Now, I get for the fans that you want to be able to have that excitement of like, And the winner is, and there's kind of like that little moment where you're not quite sure because it could be either way. But as a fighter and as an athlete and as a coach, you want to be able to give the most accurate information to the fighter or as a fighter, I want to know the most accurate information. So if it's an option to know what this judge thought, yes, you might get some people coast in a third round if you know that they've won the first two and they might kind of anti-fight. but maybe you implement in that case potentially, you know, almost like a yellow card or, you know, the timidity factor. If someone is clearly not engaging, you know, you can go warning and then, you know, maybe that can be addressed if it needed to be addressed.

But I just think that you should be able to know what these judges are scoring it so that you can accurately change a game plan if you need to. because if you think that you've won two rounds pretty easily, that you're very confident, and then you take it a little bit easier in that third round, now you lose the fight, you know, you're going to be pretty mad that you have no idea. I guess the other alternative is you could just fight for the full 15 minutes or 25 minutes to not try and play the game, but, you know, when wins matter, you know, you're going to play the game as much as you need to to get those wins.

there were two times tonight that were, I think, open scoring would have, I don't know if it would change the outcome of the fight, but I think it would have changed the, at least the strategy for the losing fighter. Kevin Kroom, before he came out for the third round, John Anix, because we don't get the, at least my feed, I don't get the in-between rounds, so into commercial. But they were saying James Krause was telling Kevin Kroom,

James Krause's coach. And James Krause is a very good mixed martial arts coach. He told Kevin. Krum, it's 1-1. But every scorecard had Kasseris winning 3027, so clearly it wasn't 1-1. I just think that sucks. James Krause is great M.A coach. If he wanted to told Crash Kroom, dude, you got to go crazy and just finish this guy.

Otherwise, you're going to lose. It's just the fact that matter. You're going to lose. And I don't know. I just think it's incredibly dumb. I just don't get it. And yeah, so we don't get the hand raise. But there's knockouts all the time and we still watch the hand raise.

It's like when a guy gets knocked out, we don't just go, all right, turn it off. We still want to watch the hand raise anyway, even though we know who won. Well, you still do get a hand raise because you don't actually find out how they scored the last round until the end. So if it's, I mean, if it was like you know the score of the first two and then that same person or the other, you know, if there's a clear decision on that third round, if it's 1-1, you still get the hand raise, but you know. know that you're going to get, you know, a surprise on the handraise. I don't remember the actual scores of your fight, but when you fought Jessica Evil Eye, yeah, you wind up losing the, what was it? What was it?

I know the fight guy eventually got no contest, but what was that, what was the scores or the rounds? I remember, it was. Yeah, so I ended up losing a split decision. And it was like 29, 28, 28, 29, 29, or whatever. but the third round was the most decisive round of the whole fight where it was where I rocked her I out through I outlanded I controlled like there was no way you could score the third round for anyone but me and the first two rounds were like closer

like I was like oh I was pretty confident I had won but I was like oh well I guess I lost on those like someone scored that second round maybe for her and then when you told me actually I think you either you or Ariel told me Oh, actually look at the scorecards, and someone had scored the second round, which was a close round for me, but then gave her the third round. And that's, that third round is what actually caused me to lose the fight. But it was the only round that was extremely decisive. Like, yes, I could have done way more in the first two. But the third round was like, okay, well, that's, that's a gimmy.

That's the easiest, like any dummy who's never watched you, like, that girl won. So, like, unless they confused that, says, both being brown hair, you know, Caucasian, somewhat same height females in fight shorts and black gloves. And we're like, uh, I mean, me, mi-o, I forget who you are. I pick you. You know, unless that's the case, there's just Texas as terrible judging. I apologize. You're bringing up that bad memory.

No, I mean, it's for your people, right, Texas? Yeah, yeah. I blame you. Oh, thanks. Yeah. Texas is a reason. You could have told, here's the thing with Kraus and Kroom, though. You could have told Kevin Krum he was up 20 to 16,

and he still would have come out trying to take Kassar's face off. Like, that's just how he is. He came in marching out there like he was a madman anyways. You could have told him anything. Like literally anything he was going to fight the same way. It doesn't matter. Where's this argument? Then these guys are going to coast.

You know, I don't get it. But not all fighters are like that. Yeah, some people would, though. if you know someone's super dangerous and you're like oh okay I have these maybe not coast but take it like a little bit careful like Saragana? Like okay you know what I'm just gonna pick

Are we calling Surrogana coaster? Because he knew everyone knew he was up So I mean we don't Does that mean he coached? Is coasting just another Another euphemism for fighting smart Because we credit fighting smart Yeah maybe

Maybe fighting conservatively So knowing that like okay well I don't need to throw everything in the kitchen sink at this guy potentially a bad situation, whereas if you know you're down four out of five rounds, you better swing, otherwise you may as well just take a knee and kind of say, well, I'm out if you're not going to actually try and win. So I think that coasting is in some ways like playing it smart.

Like I don't think that Seragong coasted. I just think that he fought well and he fought consistently for five rounds because he was worried about getting knocked out until the last five seconds of the fight. whereas I think other fighters you know if you don't if you're not worried about them having that power you might just play like more of that keep away kind of point fighting style

where they can't really touch you and you're winning or maybe you don't win the round but you don't take any damage either to me that's more of a coasting round than what Cyril did so positive see because she's thought about it all right let's see I'm not going to but I am leaning I lean away

for open scoring. But again, that's my... I'm afraid of the coasting thing. I'm afraid of the coasting issue. But I'm starting to understand. I saw there was an article that came out. Was it this week or last week? The Kansas...

Yeah. From the Kansas City... Or the Kansas... Missouri Commission, Missouri Commission, rather. Missouri Commission, excuse me, yeah. Well, no, it would have been Kansas because it would have been Invicta, right? It would have been Kansas City.

It would have actually been Kansas, I think. No, no. They do their fights in Missouri. The Kansas City, but Kansas City, Missouri. But sometimes they fight in Kansas City. No, it's Kansas. Kansas. Anyway, one of the commission that had, I believe it's Kansas City, Kansas that's been doing.

So I believe it's the Kansas Commission that's been doing. And apparently there were some promising results as far as late finishes and fights that had where people score. Something like that. It's out there. It's out there. There's out there's out to ask for Sarah's foot again after you guys trying to figure out the Missouri-Kansas Commission thing. Because we need to get these viewership numbers back up. Stop, stop.

Show the foot. Show the foot. Oh, my God. Who's... There it is. This makes great since the audio podcast. Who's taller? Who's taller?

Sarah McAughan, or T.J. Dillowellishaw. Well, how talls T.J.? I'm pretty sure. I don't know. Some of these, like, listen. I know. Gino needs to know this. I don't know.

I don't need to know, but Gino needs to know. Well, no, we've been matching them up. So it's good to know. he's 5.6. Very rarely. Well, okay, I'm going to say that I'm taller because he's probably not 5.6 if he's saying he's 5.6.

My record technically says I'm 5.5. I'm like slightly under. But I don't know that he's 5.6. Maybe he's 5.5. Yeah. Yeah. By the way, Jarzini Rosenzeg is not 6.4. Can we stop this?

He's not 64. If Cyril Ghana is 64, Jarzina Rosenzeg is not 64. Jerry Z. You look about as Paul as DC. May a little bit tall than DC, maybe. In one of my fight cards, for whatever reason, I don't remember which one it was,

but it said that I was 5'9. And I'm like, who put this as a joke? Like, I've never written down that I'm 5'9, for sure. But I was 5'9 for one fight, and I felt pretty good about it. Your opponent must have freaked out. It's fine. Sports are hilarious, man.

I remember like when I played college baseball. Like I was probably like 5-11. And my freshman year I was probably like a buck 70, maybe a buck 75. And they had me listed at 6-1-205. And I was nowhere near either of those numbers. But they just put it there because they want to inflate them. I'm like, you'm 35 pounds heavier? You're crazy.

You people are out of your minds. We're at Division III college, for God's sake. I'm not here. I ain't intimidating anybody. All right. So we've been blabbing for an hour. So, okay. Yeah, 611.

6.11. Yeah. Give a take. Give a take. Yeah, yeah. I could see it. I mean, for new foot surgery, you got to be way taller now. I'm sure they added extra foot to your foot.

Yeah. More feet. Yeah, they took the bone piece out. They just added it to the bottom of my heel, so it just raised me up to 6 foot 11. That's amazing. Just to get confirmation, this is true. why are you putting this I saw that why are you putting this comment I have never seen a woman before so well listen this is addressing me Michael let me read this out thanks uh the the don quistador NFFC have you guys never seen before this is so cringe and awkward for many reasons but it's not because we have a great guest like Sarah Kaufman on all right just me hold on you guys watch any of our watch any of our videos I'm cring and awkward like this all the time all right so so Sarah don't feel responsible that we have a special guest that's not Jose uh no I'm like this all that this is This is cool.

I'm pretty sure my foot is the ones made it cringe and awkward, but, you know. Yeah, pay attention. I don't think it's me being feminine. No, I'm not blaming the foot. The foot is, again, like I said, we've got a lot of people watching right now. And I would not be, I would not have to say like 90% because of the foot. I've seen a woman before. Casey, you've seen a woman before.

That came off really creepy, Mike. What? I get the wedding ring on. I've seen a woman. Casey's got Esther in the house. We all know. It's the iconic boys. How dare you, Sarah? Casey, can we get? This is another question of. Ful shit. You give me a nice comment and now, did you just yank it away? Call me a creep? We got to go another 10 minutes. Maybe I have to redeem myself, apparently.

Oh, yeah. What a bunch of BS. Unreal. Well, I see the don quesador seem to like our response. So thank you, thank you for the question, don quistador. We're all having a good time. We're all friends with me. It's a nice. Donchistador.

Yeah. What else? Do we get any more? You know, we're just getting some matchup questions, you know. Oh, that's all for, yeah. That's all for. On to the next one. We're not going to do any matchup questions.

Oh. I'm going to talk about this. Are you like, yeah? Yeah, who do we see next four roses I kind of like it I saw some people mention that on social media right away Well, I said they said Blades for Gone or Rosenzor

I kind of like that Yeah Maybe that blades Maybe that blades recover brain first though Yes Yeah Yeah Sarah would you be in favor of

So it's funny You know when the medical suspensions come out Usually the longer suspensions are more for, you know, that bone-related injuries, fractures, things like that. Knockouts typically get maybe, I think,

I know Blades only got, I think a mandatory suspension, I think April, so two months. Is there, I mean, I don't even know, is there a way like that they can, that they can, you know, address this more like,

not seriously, I'm sure they take it seriously, but more, in a more concrete way. And don't you think, do you think they just start issuing, you know, provisional six-month suspensions

for people who suffer these massive knockouts? I mean, I don't know. Does that even make sense? It does make sense. And I could be wrong here. But in some cases, I think that it's like the 60-day suspension, but they also have to have a cleared, like before your next fight, the commission requires almost every commission requires that if you just got knocked out,

you have a cleared head scan. Okay. So while maybe not every commission does that, but most you, before you fill out all your athletic commission, paperwork and it says what was the result of your last bout and like if it was a knockout a lot of times they require that you have been cleared from a doctor or that you've obtained a new MRI since your last knockout so i think that in that case i would hope that it's making sure that the fighters are as healthy as possible um but to me if we knocked out 30 days ago or 60 days ago

that's supposed to be like before you have contact not necessarily before you have another agreement and another fight because presumably you're going to spar in your fight. So I was, I'm fortunate that I have not been knocked out and I hope to not be knocked out. But if that were the case, I also hope that either myself or my team around me would make sure that I definitely take the appropriate time

to make sure that I heal properly, but then also have a proper camp that's controlled enough and that if there are any setbacks, which there often are with concussion and head trauma, that, you know, that I would take the time to not just want to fight and do it and get the loss off my brain, but take the time to heal properly. And sometimes that takes, you know, six months. Sometimes that takes a year for some people with really bad concussions.

Yeah. And sometimes it has to do with, like, the team that surrounds you, too. Because, Casey, I mean, we were on, you were there for the interview with Tyson Charterier, Calvin Cater's coach. And he was basically like, Calvin wanted to go for a run the next day after the Max Holloway fight. And we're like, uh-uh, you ain't doing any of that stuff. And now they're going to like, they did a CAT scan when they got back to Vegas.

And they said like everything was was pretty normal. It was like better than most of his other fights that he's had. And they're going to go back in March, get it checked again. And then they're going to go back again in June and get it checked again. And if everything's like perfect after June, then we'll start thinking about the next move. So they're basically making Calvin take like six months. off from anything that has to do with, like, contact or any of that stuff until they have three complete scans. So it kind of depends on, like, the people you're surrounded by, too.

So maybe, like, Curtis Blazes coaches are like, dude, that was a pretty ruthless knocko. Like, I know you want to get back in there. You got one fight left on your contract. You want to, like, take that next step and see where you're at. But maybe the guys over at elevation, Sean Madden, who's a fantastic coach over there. Maybe he's like, Curtis, like, let's just slow it down and see where we're at in a few months and go from there. So I guess it all depends. It depends on the fighter, it depends on the people around you. And, you know, look at Frankie Edgar.

You got knocked up by Brian Ortega ruthlessly. And then he fought Cub Swanson, what, like less than two months later? I mean, and he won. Side bead, people are different. It's tough. Yeah. And people, Sarah, you probably know this. And people, I think we get, I think as fans, even media, we get kind of caught up in the big knockouts.

but we forget even the fights that guys win in, they take a lot of times just as much head trauma as the guy that loses, or female that loses. So it's all fights are, there's head trauma on every fight. Look at Munoz. Look at Munoz today. He won the fight. Yeah, he won the fight.

And when he did the interview after, I was, and he's such a sharp guy. He was so lucid. But like, I was just thinking like, man, I want to hear from Munoz. I'm sure he wants to have his camera time. But like, I would prefer if this guy's got what, went right back to the medics right away because I was like, I always likened those kind of three-round fights. And Sarah, I don't know, maybe I'm exaggerating. It looks like it's like being in a car crash.

And it'd be crazy to me for them to interview someone, one after a car crash, and then tell them, by the way, in three months, would you be ready to get into another car crash? That's kind of like, honestly, that's kind of how I see this. And again, I know, Sarah, like you said, you've been lucky enough to avoid any, like, really crazy knockouts. But just from the outside looking in, you know, that's kind of how these things look to me. And like, it's just so, it's so scary to me. But yeah, it's funny case that you mentioned, like how people look after their fights. I agree. And I think in some ways that when you see those like one punch knockouts, maybe that shot was really bad and they have a bad concussion from it.

But maybe it was only one shot and then the fight's over. And they actually didn't have multiple, you know, where your brain's bouncing repeatedly and you kind of get a mini concussion. But then you keep going, you get another one. You keep going. You keep getting it hit. And those ones, I think, when you have the crazy. tough fights where potentially someone takes some of those really exciting hard shots they've taken more damage than the guy who just got hit with one

punch got knocked out and is actually probably somewhat okay in the realm of how much trauma he's taken because it was only the one and so yeah like the that that Calvin fight was that was nuts and as a fighter I get that he wanted to stay in there but as a fan I'm like oh we we could we could end this fight potentially this could carry on and be like maybe that was the pinnacle because you took so much damage in that fight and maybe you're never the same. So it's good to hear that the camp is reflecting on that and trying to be really smart about coming back and not not letting him come back really early. But yeah, those, I mean, we sign up to be in car crashes. That's kind of what we do.

That's why we're fighting. We know the risks. We know that it's the potential. I mean, you also sometimes get bonus money for those fights. So whether, you know, You probably don't want to be known for having the fight of the night. While it's exciting, it's not great on the body, but it's also pretty fun to be in those fights. And so it's hard to kind of shy away from those when that's your style. And, you know, you kind of want to get back in there right away. You sicko.

I know. Mike, before we get out, we don't need to talk about this, but since Sarah won't probably be with us next week, can we get some predictions for the championship It fights from Sarah Kaufman next weekend. Oh, so there's the three, right? Is that more than three? There's just the three.

Adem all. Three next week, yeah. Yeah. So are you going to go main event first? Go for it. Ladies' choice. Okay. So main event is the 205s, right?

It's Adasania and Blackowich. Blakea witch. How do I say his name? Lehovic. Blahovich. Don't help her. Yon. Yon versus Idy.

No, there are two yawns on this card. You can't say yon. Oh, you're right. I know. I can't say, yeah, no. You could say John, though. You could say John. John's?

The main event, Izzy and John, yes. I mean, that's a fun fight. I'd love to see Adesanya do well just because he's coming up, and I like to see, you know, people challenge themselves and come up and do something that, that's kind of pretty extraordinary. But I like that Jan's kind of style is, I would say, consistent and fundamentally pretty strong.

And so I could see him trying to for sure wrestle at Asana and kind of use his size. I think that would be the smart thing to do. So I'd like to see Jan keep his title. I think Amanda Nunes, I think, pretty easily takes the title. I don't think that it's too much of a fight with Megan Anderson. Megan, of course, has great range and has a lot of skill in that striking department. She's tall, she's long.

She is strong, but I think that Amanda Nunes will probably use the calf kicks early, stay on the outside, close the distance quickly, go for those takedowns. I think she'll probably finish her within one or two rounds on the ground. And then the 135 fight, I think, is probably like the most. competitive where I don't really know who to choose. I like that Sterling's finally getting the opportunity to step up and get that title shock because I feel like it's been a long time coming. But Peter Jan is a tough fighter.

I think that he's well-rounded enough that he'll probably keep the title. There you go. Three and stills. Three instills, yeah. Oh, yeah. And stills, I guess. Unless it's not. There we go.

Hedging. Hedging. That's a good hedge. Well, before you sign us off, I will, I want to, I want to,

oh, the music is still going. We will have a special edition of the Great Divide tomorrow and I'm Mayfighting.com by Jed and I breaking down, talking about all 10 fighters competing in the upcoming title bites

and making a case for all of them. So yes, I got, I drew Megan Anderson, and I will have a case for why Megan can somehow beat them Ben and Nunez. So please, we'll look out for that tomorrow.

But thanks, Sarah. Thanks, Sarah. Thanks, Sarah. For being here. Thanks, guys. Yes, Sarah. Sorry about my internet. Oh, you're great internet.

Great internet. Any last words, Sarah? Anything you want to tell the peeps before we wrap this thing up? Well, if I can't get a fight, I think my next career is going to be on the Masked dancer. Yes. So my costume will probably be some kind of full snow white attire. that's who I'll be. That's probably.

There you go. Well, that was great. Killed it. I love it. I love it. You and you and Ken Jong? It's going to be. Touchdown.

Yeah, grand slam. I'll make sure you can see my feet, though, all right? I'll make sure you can see my feet. Oh, God. There we go. Ratings. Ratings. She knows what sells, ladies and gentlemen.

So officially here, the East Coast. It is officially UFC 259 fight week. So get excited for that. We'll have lots of coverage. Jose will be there. So we'll have media days. I think between the links is actually going to be Wednesday this week instead of Thursday because there's a press

conference on Thursday as you saw on the broadcast and then we'll have way in show and pre-fight show and post-fight show and preview shows and all sorts of craziness. So we will have you covered throughout the week. And then AK and I are back tomorrow. Putting a bow on UFC Vegas 20 with On to the next one the podcast.

So look for that. Make sure you subscribe on the podcast network and get it before anybody else does. With that being said, for A.K., Casey Leiden, for our great special guest, Sarah Kaufman. I am Mike Heck. Good night, everybody. Happy birthday. Sorry. Sarah is AK's birthday.

It's not my birthday. Today? Yeah. No, it is not. It's never my birthday. I thought you were the Prince of Positive. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. You know,

Thank you.