MMA Fighting - UFC Vegas 42 Post-Fight Show | Reaction To Holloway vs. Rodriguez FOTY Contender

Episode Date: November 14, 2021

Max Holloway and Yair Rodriguez put on a classic in the featherweight main event of UFC Vegas 42. Where do both fighters go from the battle at the APEX? That question is answered, along with discussions about Herb Dean’s hesitation in the co-main event, the many finishes of the card, and much more with MMA Fighting’s Mike Heck and E. Casey Leydon. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow E. Casey Leydon: @ekc Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love?

The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original, The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian

in this follow-up to the audible original blockbuster, the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, ghosts in the machine, available now, only from Audible.

Listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. UFC biggest post-fight show. I'm trying to get the beat so I can sing. Max, haul away a year, Rodriguez. They fought in the apex. And what a fight it was. All right, I'm not going to sing any longer.

Welcome, everybody, to the UFC Vegas 42 live post-fight show here on M-Afighting.com. I am Mike Hakee. He is E. Casey Leiden. And we're going to treat this post-fight show like we treated the people's pre-fight show. We're just going to answer all your questions. This is the two of us and all of you,

and we want you to contribute to this entire, your post-fight show. So questions, comments, thoughts, what you thought of the event, low-key storylines, whatever you want to talk about. Leave them in the comments. We'll throw them up on screen. We will address them. We will leave Leon Edwards out of this conversation because we spoke about him for 20 minutes on the People's Free Fight Show. We'll focus on Cardo. So what do you got? We can talk about Max Holloway's great win. We can talk about Yaya Rodriguez's tremendous performance after 25 months away. Herb Dean being just turning into a not great referee.

How about since Spencer? Cynthia Calvillo's corner actually doing the right thing. Yes. Chaos Williams being Chaos Williams. Song You Dong, great win. Joel Alvarez could be a fun lightweight. Oh, or 160. Oh my God.

The MMA math they were trying to do in that fight was like, it was insane. Angelie, great performance Shot of Woodson, great performance, Courtney Casey, great performance. Raphael Alva's insane performance. When Jung gets started with the finish, this car was bananas. Oh, dude, yeah,

Jung's knockout was awesome. I'm my, geez, like that was, how quick was this? This card, this card, because of all the knockouts and finishes, that felt this was, it's had to be one of quicker cards. For sure.

How many fights run this card? Only 11, only 11 fights, which is really, reasonable, you know? So, yeah, just a great job, UFC. This is a, I love these afternoon cards. The fighters brought it, lots of finishes. Not the finishes are, meaning fights great,

or decisions mean it's a bad fight, but just, yeah, great fight, great card. Hey, you go with some questions. Yeah, let's go. Let's see, we got. Great performance from Felicia Spencer. She looked great. Yeah, she did look great.

Unfortunately, she is in a division that doesn't really exist because now, what do you do? Like, I'm not going to take credit for this one because Ariel Hawani and our Slack channel threw it out there. He feels that Felicia Spencer would actually be like a good step up in competition if we're trying to build Kayla Harrison into being what we expect that she could be. a fight with someone like Felicia Spencer would be a suitable step up in competition although it doesn't seem like and I want to get your opinion on this because Dana White just talked about it Casey

doesn't seem like Dana White and the UFC are a interested in bringing Kayla Harrison over at this point in time. B, having this featherweight division exists after December 11th at this point is that the vibe you got like Amanda goes out there beats Julianna Pena maybe they try to set up the Schifchenko fight and that's it like are we done with 145

you think? I think Dana kind of said it. It really depends on what Manonan Nunes wants and how the fight with Pena goes. I mean, I don't know who's asking the question. It might have been, I'm not sure what reporter asked a question, but someone suggested that are we just going to do away with the belt? And that sounds crazy to say in any of the division. And Dana kind of didn't even like, what?

What are you talking about get rid of the division? So obviously it's out there. I don't understand why Felicia Spencer, why this fight was so high on the card, if there's no, what's the end game for the UFC as far as putting this fight so high on the card if they're not going to continue to push the 45 division? It was confusing placement in the card that we said before. I thought that it should have gone to Andrea Lee Cavillo, that spot. I thought Andrew Lee Cavio should be in a co-main event, honestly. And yeah, Felicia Spencer, great win for her. Unfortunately for her, she's in a.

a promotion that doesn't care about other way. And yeah, that's about it. I have no shoes. Yeah, if I'm Felicia Spencer's people right now, I'm probably trying to set up a meeting with the UFC brass and I'm just like, listen,

we all know what's going to happen here. I mean, who knows? If Julianna Pena beats Manez, maybe Nunes six around fights of 45, maybe they're just running back, who the hell knows? But at this point, if you're Phileas Spencer, you're just like, listen, we all know what's going on.

Mine's just like, let me out of my contract and go to PFL, try to win the mill, go to Bellator. Go to Belator, yeah. Mike or Cyborg again. Like, try to do something because the future of this division in the UFC, and I know we've been saying this for a while, but it seems at this point, like, there's no effort to bring people in.

They're releasing fighters like crazy. There is like a contender. Norma Dumont, like, if you want to throw in for a title fight, sure, but not a lot of people are going to give her much of a chance, obviously. So yeah, it's just, it's just, the division is just like a slot filler at this point. And it's unfortunate because, you know, these are fighters and they make money and this is what they do for a living. And their careers are in flux being in the UFC right now. So maybe like have an option. Listen, if you want to stay, you could take your chance.

It's great. But if you want to go, go. The grass might be greener for you. Go check it out. But yeah, tough spot because there weren't a lot of stakes for her. probably more, there's probably more on the line for Leah Letson. A win for Leah Letson opens up a little more doors for her because she hasn't fought a lot of these girls. She's been out for so long. And Felicia's fought all of them. Felicia's fought like this whole division.

She fought Nunes. She fought Dumont already and lost. Like, what are you going to do? Like, they tried to book her against Danielle Wolfe, which is just unbelievably terrible matchmaking. Like, how dare you? Poor Danielle Wolf. 1-0.0.

Her pro debut was on the contender series. I thought she lost that fight. Yeah, damn, Wolf. Yeah, that's, I got, I forgot by that name. All right. But it was a great performance. She did look very good. And she mauled Leia Letson.

Lealettezen was tough and mauled her. That was, that's the Felicia Spencer I've been kind of expecting for a while. And it showed up tonight. That's, you know what? Unfortunately, Felicia Spencer, that is not the Felicia Spencer that will be Amanda Nunes. That's just the reality. There's just a, Felicia Spencer is obviously a very talented, very good. good, very, very good featherweight.

Unfortunately, the queen is a great fighter right now at this point in her career. And yeah. This is a little... Maybe PFL reached out to EFC, a little trade ski. Yeah, trade skis, yeah, I like that. Trade ski? It's a bit of a what-if. I don't really like answering what-if questions, but if it's do it.

Why not? If they do Holloway Volk 3 and Holloway wins, what's next? Best of 5, 7? Yes, sure. I'll watch these guys fight seven times. Absolutely. Go back and watch that second fight. The first fight, like the first fight I thought it was a clear Volcanowski win.

Very clear. I've watched it a couple more times since then. The fight at 251 is so undervalued. Just because of the card, it was the first one back, the names that were on it. That fight, the second fight between Max Holloway and Alexander Volkanowski was incredible. Really incredible. Both fighters, the whole thing, start to finish, a really incredible fight. Yeah, so I would watch those guys fight seven times.

Absolutely. Yeah. Actually, I'm kind of a big proponent. I know it's just the reality doesn't, it won't work in the reality of how price fighting he is. But when guys are like top five guys, like I always say two out of three or three out of five because, I mean, like, you know, like we watch, we watch enough sports. the best teams often lose game one, you know? And yeah, so I think, yeah,

just book Holloway-Wokanowski 3. Now, if Max loses another, loses another very close fight, we have a lot of more what-ifs. I think Max goes to 55 if that happens, but we're not there yet. Yeah. Yeah, but if Holloway wins,

like you could set up like the only best of seven series in MMA history, like who's going to complain about that? It's not something you do all the time, but. Oh, wait, wait, I can't hear you get a guy. has. At just 29 years old, what happens to Max a featherweight if you lose the third time to Volk? The guy has options right now.

Hallway is a big deal. He's a star. He can go to 55. He would just, like if he loses DeVolk, he's just going to do fun fights. Like he's just going to do fun, challenging fights.

Maybe he fights for the lightweight title at some point. I think his resume, if he moves up, look at Frankie Edgar. Every time Frankie Edgar drop down a weight class, he basically fought for the title right away. Two fights.

Yeah. I think Max actually moves a needle more than Frankie, so I think there's even a better chance. And you already have the amazing Dustin Poirier fight, which he, you know, he lost, but yeah. Yeah. You could do Holloway Porre again. You could do Holloway Oliver again.

You could do Holloway McGregor. You could do Holloway Gauchy, Holloway Chandler. I mean, look at all the fight. If Paul Felder has the itch he needs scratched, you do Holloway versus Paul Felder. I mean, just think Holloway versus Dan Hooker. Like, all these fights are fun. They're all fun.

there is no bad option but is holloway Islam Mahach have a bad option I don't think it is I like it because I know no one no one is beating Max Holloway yeah you know of course he would take it but no one is beaten Max that way

that is not we would think that Islam would have this path to victory so I love that fight just makes one of charts that's what we're here for you know yeah I mean I'm sure he would be happy with that he wanted he's he's wanted the hubby fight he never got it so this would be like the second best thing they yeah they were at the freaking press conference you're

Right. I forget that. I forget how close we were to that fight. And Max couldn't, because of the short notice and his injury, he couldn't make $1.55 at the time, which seems, that was a while of time. That was a while of time. Right. I start going to, like, oh, it just goes on and on and on. Wow. It's a rabbit hole. Yeah. Richard Fitzwell, not a chance the A year gets released of UFC. No, no. But you know what? Of course.

but the talk going into this fight was a lot like this is a set-up fight for a year a year's going to get his butt kicked and the UFC's going to get rid of him because they don't like him because he didn't take the fight of the beat all that kind of not there was a lot I felt there's a lot of nonsense being thrown out there a lot of fake drama being thrown out there for why this fight was booked and you know as critical I am at the UFC often I thought this fight was I thought this was always an awesome fight from day one it was booked I was like yeah this is awesome this isn't a set-up fight for a set-up fight for a set-up fight for a set-up a fight for Yaya to get him out of the UFC, not at all. So yeah, I didn't understand that. And of course that performance, yeah, Yaya year's gold. He's gold for a while. The relationship between Yai Yer and the UFC has been a rocky one.

So that's why this was something in question, especially the timing of the fight, because I mean, if just Holly taking this fight, you seem kind of weird like right after the title fight. Like, you were pretty much guaranteed a title shot. So that's just a gangster move by Max.

And yeah, I mean, it's not, it's a question that needed, like, if Holloway just went out there in 50, 43, yeah, year, we'd be having this conversation right now. Like, we just would be. And it's stupid, but we would be having it. I think anyone, because of the history. Yeah. But there's a lot, I mean, we all, there's like, Arrow talks about this, that, Ariel talks about this a lot. We hear a lot of stuff that we can't talk about publicly because, you know, it's in confidence. And unfortunately for Yaya, a lot of his, maybe you have.

The UFC drama kind of became public. But trust me, there's plenty of drama with all these fighters. Unfortunately, for Yair, he got more public, and that's all I got to say. Yeah, he got freaking released. They released him. And brought him back. But don't be, it's crazy. The UFC also released Kane Velasquez at one point, too.

Before he was, yeah. Don't, don't, don't. Oh, man. Yeah, I know. Yeah. Here we go. I don't agree with this comment, but, you know, someone he wrote it. We'll see.

CSS 172 Max looks sloppy He still did enough to win But yeah you're impressed me I don't know if sloppy is the right word I don't think he's He started off slow But this is this is what we see from Max Hollow

I've seen this many times Look at the Jose Aldo fights He got tuned up In the first round and a half Two rounds of both of those fights And then he turned it on And beat that ass But I mean

Max is a slow starter sometimes He started quick his last couple of fights It's like the second Volcanowski fight. Obviously he started pretty hot in the cater fight, but this is a different kind of fight, a different kind of style. You don't want to get in there and just start winging shots at Yairiair

because you get knocked out. So Holloway took a little different approach. Yeah, maybe at times, not the most technical, not the most technical hallway we've seen over the years. But yeah, I think there's a method to his madness. And maybe the sloppiness was part of the game plan. But yeah, I mean,

the momentum is certainly, changed in round two, two, three, four, and then Yaiyar woke up in the fifth. And I just don't agree, he looked sloppy. It's like, these are like, they're fighters. I don't know what they were looking for. I'm not sure what, I'm not sure what sloppy they were looking for. Especially with like how, especially with what Yai'er was throwing. He was all over the place.

Like, it's hard. You can't prepare for what Yai'er is going to throw. Eventually, you could tell Hallowie got the timing down with the punches and the boxing and some of the body kicks and the leg. kicks, but it's hard to get that timing at first when, yeah, you're storing stuff from all different angles and jumping and flying and spinning and you just never know what things are coming, but he figured it out. A couple years ago, I was actually working out in the UFC workout room for a fight week,

and a year of Rodriguez came in, and he knew one of the coaches, and he didn't, and he wanted to hit pads with one of the coaches, and he had any gloves. So he asked to use, I just hit pads with an MMA coach, and a year goes, how can I borrow your gloves. I'm like, sure. Yeah, you put the same boxing gloves I had on and he was almost wearing like cargo shorts and he just did like 30 flying spin kicks. We've probably

even warming up and I was just like there are levels of this. So many levels. So many levels. And then he handed them back to me as like well, I can't put these gloves on now. These are the these gloves I've just seen. Take them. I'm insulted to put my hands in these gloves.

That's so funny. That's a great fight though. Yes. Black Friday is here at IKEA, and the clock is taking on savings you won't want to miss. Join IKEA family for free today and unlock deals on everything from holiday must-haves to cozy at-home essentials,

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it's up there I don't know if the ranking is but this is just a great card just I mean I don't want my memory's not good enough to do ranking all the best cards but name value insignificance no this card can't be fight at the year just aren't enough fights of importance but every every fight I felt was entertaining and you know there's just a very entertaining card that's all

it's just and the question was it is the question wasn't best fight cut of the year it was it was most violent fight card of the year I thought we got to be there were some nasty finishes on this card

it was up there it was up there it's up there it's in the conversation we'll have to dig deep on this one yeah I you want to talk about violent finishes

that kind of got underrated um Daun Jung how do you say his name Dao Jun Daun John yeah that knockout

over I was like Kennedy Kennedy actually had it blocked But the elbows were so hard Even though it blocked It went through his hands And still concussed Kennedy That's all hard he was throwing those elbows

When he was on the cage That's just that boggles me That's scary You can block a punch Or block a strike And it's still like Oh this sucks So yeah

No issue if you want to call it If you want to call it the most violent card Of the year Fight Night card of the year Go for it Yeah Good win for Jung Flew onto the radar

And Zichucoo's tough man like if you're going to beat that guy especially right now one you just got to beat him now anyways because he's just going to get better and better at this point and two as you've seen in his last couple of UFC fights and Jituku gets better as the fight goes like third round injichuku is like right up there with third round Derek Lewis and second round Derek Lewis fifth round Robbie Lollar so yeah if you're going to get him out you got to get him out of there early and great performance good way to start the card raffia alva's great performance against Marks of Casey,

the big left hand, the flying knee, the nasty guillotine, and then he's hoisting up everybody, is hoisting up doctors, Michael Bisping. I mean, what a day,

what a day? Who was the fight? Maybe it was Josh Thompson that he got a big knockout and he picked up Joe Silva in the cage. I remember one time, that's what it was. I can't remember who it was,

but it was someone, you can tell Joe Silva's like, I do not like being this high. Yes. It was great, really good card, really good card. Good follow up.

I need a Yayae versus Giga kicks only fight. Whoa, Jedmishu. But get a fight circus. Jedmishu could like this comment 14 times he would. But yeah, I would say, I would say, Yair could be in line for whoever wins that fight. Would you say... Between catering Giga.

I would think with Yaiers' performance tonight, things have to go right in a certain way with title matchups, but do you think Yaiir is one big win away with the right opponent from actual title shot? considering how close this fight was. I think things would have to play out the right way. Like, I think, I think Ege would have to beat Emmett. I would think Cater would have to beat Chacazze.

And then, yeah, maybe. I mean, if Giga wins and they set him up with the, I think if Giga beats Cater, he's probably the next guy after Holloway at this point. If Giga, the way he's been rolling. If Giga beats Cater, Cater. He's very close.

He's probably getting the winner. I mean, unless they do the best of seven, then, you know, Gig is going to have to wait. I mean, things are going to have to play out in Yair's favor. Like, certain guys are going to have to win. He's going to have to get lucky. Things are just going to have to fall in sort of the right place. But I could see Yai Yer after that performance fighting the winner of that fight.

And I wouldn't say he might be two wins away from getting back there. Sure. Cool. Yeah, a lot of people, you know what? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Eure Ortega, a lot of Yayao Jeter, but I'm seeing a lot of Yayao Ortega. Yeah, that's fun, man. That is fun, a fun fight.

Yeah. But, Oortega, I mean, listen, Ortega took a beating in that fight. And both guys, both guys took a beating in that fight. Could be a while before we see Ortega. Yeah. Real quick, we didn't really talk about this, but how did you score the main event? 48, 47 for Holloway. What rounds, though?

That's why I've seen different things with the rounds, though. 2, 3, 4 for Holloway, 1 and 5 for Yaya. I thought Yaya won the first. Holloway was very close to getting a 10-8 in the second, I believe. You think so? It was close. No, it was close. I had the second round for Yajir.

I think it was the third. I don't know. No problem. No problem. I got you. Yeah. Holloway won the second. I thought Hollywood won the second.

Momentum was changing. It was 1919. Third round was very close to being a 10-8. because Holloway had him in big trouble, dominant. Yair got up, turned it around, landing some big shots, brought it back to a 10-9. Holloway clearly run round four. And then Yair came up, guns blazed in round five,

and won that round. So, yeah, 40 or 47 for me. Can you pull an official scorecard up? Because to me, it seems like what I agree with Bisbing said, it seems like rounds two and five were the swing rounds in the sense that it can gone both ways. I I guess I don't know

Maybe I was just kind of got too caught up in the fight But I thought I thought Holloway won the fifth round But I really could be wrong And at that point I was just kind of watching as a fan to be honest I had it tied going to two to into the fifth round So I'm just kind of curious Yeah Yeah I had I had rounds one and two

For Yaya and rounds three and four for max. I think three and four are very obviously max rounds. I feel most people had round one for a year and I don't know

maybe too. Maybe I was just I was emotional during two and five. I'm not sure. All right, let me pull up the card here. That is the first fight.

Hold on. Let me scroll down all the way down. All right. Derek Cleary gave which was the complete opposite for me. Gave Hollowayor round one,

Yaya, round two. What, he gave hallway, okay, wow. Oh, sorry, sorry. Sorry, go on. I'm sorry. Holloway three, Holloway four, Rodriguez, five. Sal DiMato had Max Holloway up four rounds to nothing

heading into the fifth. And Yaya, round five. So that was 4946. And then Ron McCarthy scored it the exact way I scored it. Yeah, year round one, Holloway, two, three, and four. Yeah, year round five.

So, okay, so everyone scored round five for Yayae, correct? Everyone scored round five for Yaya, yep. That's wild. One judge scored, gave the first round of Yai Year. How many, for round two, how many judges gave one. One judge gave Yerreira round two. Okay, all right. Interesting.

Interesting. Yep. That's wild. Yeah. So there were no identical score cards on all three judges. No. Interesting. Like, I can't.

It's very rare. that we even see that at this point. Yeah. Which is pretty wild. But yeah, I, Brown McCarthy, I scored it the exact same way he did. But so good.

So good. Like, you know what? Like, sometimes, I don't know, maybe it's just me, but like going into the fifth round, um,

I, I just, I had a hard time giving the year because I just knew Max was such a heavy favorite and everyone kind of told me coming to this fight. Oh, this fight's going to be a blowout. So the fact that round five was even close. I see that almost everyone had it for a year

I gave it to Holloway but if yeah that's wow So round two was that seems to be If one if one more judge or or Yeah round two That seems like that was the big round That was a big difference maker But yeah but one judge

Yeah you're just had a great game plan around one He beat up the legs Beat up the body I mean Holloway's ribs were like swollen Like it looks like there was a like an alien Trying to jump out of his stomach at one point. Like,

Yaira lit up his body pretty good and Holly fought through it, dude. But those are just too tough, tough, tough SOB. Obviously, not fight got the point of the night. Yeah, so, yeah, I'm thinking a lot of people had one in five for Yayaeer. And then, but the judges had a lot, two of the judges had round two for Yaya,

which would mean that, you know, if the right judges or the right, whatever, like Yaya wins this fight, depending, you know, how you look at, I mean, just with a different, different set of eyes. I just think is that close. If Ron McCarthy,

See, if Ron McCarthy scored round two for Yair, he would have won the fight. Oh, no. Yeah. You know what I mean. It would have been a split decision. It would have been a split decision. Because you can't give him three or four. Round one for, for Holloway, it was interesting.

Three and four were the most dominant rounds. Also a very interesting part of this fight. We went into it going, who's the better boxer? Who's the better boxer? Yair seemed to win this fight actually on the ground. And it went with the takedowns, with the cage control. And we didn't. Yeah.

That 10-8 round was based on his dominant positions on the ground. It wasn't because Yaya was getting necessarily beat up on the feet. I'm sorry, my mixing names up, sorry. We have all these kind of ideas how the fight's going to go in our head. And then it's so cool when it doesn't go that way, but makes sense, you know, how it works out. And from judging, they say Yai'er broke his foot pretty badly. It looked nasty It was like a blow

Yeah God that I mean that's When you throw that many calf kicks That many leg kicks That's always the big That's always the big risk You're gonna break your foot

You'll break your hurts on your legs So remember I think Fitzgerald mentioned It seems like Yair had As abandoning the leg kicks Well now we may know why His foot was really messed up And that's just

That's the fight game man Bones break And you just got to And I just hope And guys like Max, his bones don't seem to break. They're just made, he's made of something different. Yeah. For sure.

So that was obviously the fight in the night. If you missed it the performance of night, bonuses went to Chaos Williams and Andrea Lee after their tremendous performances. But, I mean, there's just, I mean, there could have been so many, so many people. So many people deserve bonuses. So hopefully they get taken care of a little bit. You know what? Let's just get this out of the way.

I've seen a bunch of variations of this question. Let's just, let's get this out of the way. what did you make of the Herb Dean hesitation unfortunately there's I don't know it's just it's just tough man like you gotta make these decisions now was he

I'm trying to think who the referee was who was the referee in the Tanner Bozer OSP fight remember there was like something fishy going on there that wasn't Herb Dean was it I bet it was um OSP let me see

who is the ref is tell you the ref is I'm looking at the fight on topology but I don't see where it says the I'm like all right hold on all right let me see um oh no it was jason hers oh noirza never mind never mind okay yeah you gotta like herbs had a tough year he's had a tough year two years ago and even like a lot a big chunk of last year

I think I mean this was the gold standard of refs this was all good herb Dean's roughing Like, no worries here. And then it seemed like right after the Dan Hardy situation, I mean, my God, as soon as, like, right from there, Dan, like Dan Hardy called it to our attention. And then it's just gotten, I'm not going to say worse, but just not better. Just bad. Herb Dean almost started the fight. And Bisping's like, bro, your credentials still out.

Your credentials are on? Is it just hanging on? I was like, oh, geez, Herb. he's like like, oh, let's do it. Like,

what are you doing? And I just, I just tweet like, what the hell is Herb Dean doing? Like, what are you doing? Like,

this is the time, like, come out and speak about it. Like, this is tweet something, anything. Just be like, dude,

I made a mistake. Which is fine. I wasn't sure what was happening. Happened quick. Like, that's fine. Like, we'd be like,

cool, dude. Well, well said, appreciate you. Like, the best, Jason, this might have been the fight

I was thinking of, because we probably talked about it. is the best ref in MMA, and he effed up, which is fine. It happens. No ref is going to bat a thousand. We would love them, too, but they're not going to bat a thousand. Herb Dean seems to be really... It was a horrible stoppage.

I'm not sorry, it was a horrible... I don't know what... Stoppage. I guess I were called... DeLima did a great... I don't know. I don't know what that was. It should have been a knockout.

It was weird. I don't know what that was. That was just... You look like you wanted to say. stop the fight, but then it looked like they were swinging hard. He didn't want to get in there. I was like, but has your job as a referee, that's what you do.

When you want to stop the fight, you jump in there. You sacrifice your body. You do like the whole secret, you know, just jump in there. You know, you stop the fight. That's what your job is. And maybe, I don't know, maybe he just doesn't like Ben Rothwell. I don't know. It's just, yeah, Rothwell, you know, he went for the takedown afterward,

but you were already kind of told Denima fights over. So, yeah. It was weird. You know what remind me of? Like, oh, sorry, sorry. He was the, he was the ref for the. Hebas Rodriguez. That's what we're thinking of,

that Heba's Rodriguez. Very similar. Yes. Thank you, Scott. Very similar. What it reminded me of was like, because I have three brothers and we all, at times, beat the hell out of each other and had wars and just started wrestling around and getting in fights.

But like, the way, the way like the fighters looked at Herb Dean in that situation, it was like, if me, and my brother were like fighting and then like my mom came up and like open the door and like we just kind of looked at her like huh like that's how the fighters both looked at her dean in that situation like what are you doing what are you doing you can't say stop stop stop stop stop stop and then be like me you know what keep going keep going like that's exactly what happened like whatever herb like you made him like come out and address it come out and address it and it's over we won't talk about it anymore I would like judges and referees to be more open and honest about stuff.

Mark Goddard, very open and honest. I appreciate what that man does. He's come out and interviews about stuff, goes on Twitter and explains stuff. If he makes a mistake, he admits it. If he didn't make a mistake, he explains why he didn't feel he made a mistake. I like that. I wish all officials would do that. It should cause just accountability.

Every single person is accountable for their actions, except for the people who seem to have the most accountability. The most important part, accountability. For some reason, we don't get to talk to them. And that's, you know, that's, and that's strictly a, a production thing or, it's not, it's an MMA thing. Because if you watch enough boxing events after every weird stoppage or whatever, they always talk to the, they always either talk to the commission guy or they talk to the

ref. And if the ref doesn't want to talk, they'll go on air and say, you know what? We want to talk to the ref. The ref declined an interview with us. He didn't want to talk about it. But at least they put it out there that the, the, we tried. I've never heard that.

Watching Bellator, watching UFC, bunch of PFL, I've never heard the broadcast team. Let's interview that ref. And they don't want to talk. I've never heard that.

It's just, I think it's happened once or twice. Maybe the Musasi Wyman, didn't they kind of talk to the, remember that had the weird instant review. I don't know. Was the commission interview?

Maybe Radnor did an interview? Yeah. Like during the fight, during the fight card. Yeah. Very few times was the commission speak publicly about these things, which I think it's just BS. I don't get it.

Do not get it. It's funny because I feel like last year, I thought Christyone last year had one of the worst years in refereeing history. He was just so bad and so consistent from a week-to-week basis. I felt like this year like he's been better, but then once in a while, like, revert back to the old Chris Tione. Like, how many warnings are you going to give fighters? Like, how many times you're going to allow a fighter?

to drill somebody in, you know, in the guys. Like with hard shots. Like, you stop the action once it happens. But after the first one, like, you got to start taking points. Like, accidental or not, you got to start taking points.

That's how they stop. That's how we no longer allow these things to happen. Eye pokes, et cetera. If it happens once, cool, accident. If it happens again, take a point. No, no, no. This is your last warning. No, no, no, no.

This is really your last warning. No, the third one. your absolute last word. It's like, and like, and, and, and, and this is my go-to busing. Oh, that was accidental. It's like, well, they're all accidental. It's like, we, like, we don't, we've never seen a fighter just come out there and like, like, um, like, we haven't seen that yet, you know, or just like straight up,

I'm just going to kick you in the nuts. We don't, you don't know, business means. Like, it's accidental. It's like, it doesn't matter if it's accidental. It's like, it's reckless. That's the word we're looking for. I'm a big proponent of half points deductions, because. because it's official, it stops the fight,

it, no, it reprimends him, reprimands him. But, like, for, like, director, I think there were two eyepokes in the main event, you know, and both felt, both, they were obviously accidental. And a lot of people were, like, there were automatic point deductions, but did they think that in the main event that Year and Holloway shouldn't have got automatic point deductions for their eyepokes?

I don't think either than deserves automatic point deductions. So it's a very- Especially Holloway's, because he, it was a closed fist. There was just the, like, the edge of the thumb witness his eye. But if you thumb, but that's, that's an eye poke. You got a thumbs in.

You know, it's just, I get it. I mean, I get why they didn't. Not what they are. Yeah. I'm waiting for that. Yeah. And there's only one, there's only one defense for that. You just think.

Yeah, three stooges style. Yeah, three stooges style. What else we got? Yeah, her being not a good, not a good showing. And I think he, uh, I think he got off easy in the Dana White department. By the way, I think the tweet of the night was someone because of Dana's coat. Someone posted a picture of Teddy KGB from the movie Rounders and called him Dana KGB.

I thought that was awesome, by the way. I saw one tweet. Is it right? Is it right now, Dan Hardy is in the apex parking lot just shaking his fists. Told you. I told you. Oh, yeah. He read out.

He sent out some tweets right after. Dan Hardy, man. Love it. It's going to be a simple yes or no. I'm going to go. No. Sure. Sure.

Sure. At heavyweight, anything's possible. So I'll say sure, but not likely. I'm going to go no. I'm going to go no. I was shocked that he was so high in the card anyway. What else we got here? Uh-oh.

Jed Mishu should be on every show. So Jed's a busy man. Georgia football's playing. He's got other things to do. Jed will be on between the links this week. His opening round matchup is Thursday. So be prepared for that. Thursday, 3 p.m. Eastern, noon Pacific right here on the NBA Fighting YouTube channel, live,

third opening round matchup. And then the week after that, it's not official, but we'll probably roll the Tuesday after that because you can't do a show on Thanksgiving. You can't do a show on Thanksgiving. What else? Anything else? A bit of a troll comment. Ostruck audio hurts. This do with the glasses.

ability. Half the stuff he says shrunk about the fact he has no martial arts just makes it look, could you catch him? Okay, first of all, half the stuff is wrong, but that means half the stuff I say is right. So, so you're a glass half empty. I'm glass half full.

Half the stuff I say is right. So I appreciate the compliment. Casey does know martial arts. He's been covering the sport for a really long time. Those are my favorite comments. They're like, what are you? You new to this? I'm like, okay, yeah. I mean,

he's, he's, yeah. There's a, what's her name, Gina, who's, uh, has a podcast with like Mike from WoTV and stuff. And, you know, she, what I like about Gina is she's a fan, but like, if she has questions, she'll be like, excuse my ignorance. What is this? Oh, I know you're talking about. Yeah. The Invicta question. Like, who, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm not that familiar with Invicta, like, who are some of the fighters came from Invicta?

And Casey literally. ran off like every like every fighter ever that competed in the Invicta Cage and it was just amazing and you probably did that in like two minutes just because you were there

for like all the events yeah and I appreciated her her approach to it she was just like I just I'm a little ignorant to it so if you can help me I was like yeah it's like why would you know all of this there's like such a long history like I wasn't there for UFC 3

or you know everyone claims I was at UFC 1 I watched UFC 1 I was like yeah UFC 1 apparently was the most watch card ever according to MMA fans but no I didn't Watch UFC one. I had no idea. My first pay-per-view I ever bought was UFC, whatever the GSP, when GSP got knocked out by Sarah,

that was actually my first UFC pay-per-view I actually sat down and watched. After that, I was like, I should pay attention to this sport. Yeah, I was right. Yeah. Those people on Twitter trying to defend Herb Dean. Come on, those are 300-pound guys that Ben was half unconscious trying to go for a takedown at the same time. Herb tried to grab DeLima.

I don't know how he could have done it differently other than literally double-laking DeLima. Well, there you go. You're the referee. That's what you do. That's literally what you do. We've seen referees, we've seen referees choke, like literally have to put fighters in rear naked chokes to, like, get them off. Like, because they won't stop.

John McCarthy used to rip dudes off all the time. That's what you're supposed to dive in. Herb Dean was a fighter himself. Yeah. Herb Dean's had professional fights. That's what you do. Like, that's what you do. I mean, you actually, in boxing, you see boxing, boxing reps get punched all the time.

because once they're throwing combinations, the bell rings and they have to break it up. And so a lot of times the punches keep coming. They get hit and everything. That is part of the job. I'm sorry. How about this? Should Cynthia go back to 115 and she could do it healthy?

This is a tough one, man. I don't know. I mean, if she can, but I don't know if she can. I think. I don't know. I would say no. and we just need maybe Cavillo and us as fans have to accept that Cynthia just may not be a top five or even a borderline. Maybe she's not even a top 10 featherweight.

I'm sorry, not featherweight, flyweight. And that's fine. There's lots of, there's lots of, you know, fights to make and everything. I just don't, maybe she's just, she's not going to hit that potential that we kind of thought that she was going to get after she beat Jessica I. I think just guys kind of her. Is that her big flyweight win? Yeah. Yeah.

Just, yeah, maybe just. That was her debut, I believe. That was her debut in the main event that a lot of people complaining about. But, no, Cynthia won. Yeah, I guess Cynthia's just not the level. And just get, maybe we just need to give more credit to Andrea Lee. When Andrew Lee came, when she came, she was, she's from Invicta. I remember there was a handful of fighters when I saw Invicta that I was like,

after watching them fight, after they handle her, themselves, I'm like, ooh, this girl is going to be a star. When I first saw Rosedomi Units, I was like, ooh, this girl is going to be a star. Actually, when I first saw a Maverick, I was like, ooh, this girl is going to be a star. Alexa Grasso, you know, people like that. When I first saw Andrea Lee, I was like, she's going to be good. And then, no, she lost

some fights. She got ground, I think, Roxy beat her and Invicta. And, but maybe she just hasn't, Andrea Lee just hasn't reached her potential. And now this is the best Andrew Lee we got. And this is two amazing performances from her. And who knows, maybe Andrew

Lee, you know, two more fights away. She's going to be fighting in Valentina. We don't know. But just give a little more credit to Andrew Lee. That's all I'm trying to say. And maybe caveat. Yeah, a couple things I want to add to that. One, I don't think it has a lot to do with the weight class. A lot of it is just the approach

of the fight. Like, Cynthia is a wrestler and really good on the ground, but yet the last three fights, like I know Jessica Androge, when she hits you, it changes lives. But the Chicagian fight, she didn't go for any takings. or very few that I recall.

This fight, no takedown attempts until late in the second round when she was getting battered. After she started beat up, yeah. Yeah, I mean, like, what are you doing? Like, why are you in there, like, trying to box these girls and trying to kickbox these girls?

Like, you're playing right into Andrew's hands. And to add to your point about Andrea Lee, she is in a great place right now. She hasn't been in a great place in a long time, dealing with everything she's had to deal with, with the ex-husband, trying to get a divorce, custody battles, all that stuff.

She dealt with that for years. She's a mother of two. She probably has so much drama outside of her life that fighting in a case. Her fact that she can show up at her best for one night, you know, a couple nights a year is just an amazing feat in itself, you know? So I'm sorry. Yeah. There's a lot going on Andrew.

Andrew Lee's life. Yeah, she's put all that behind her. I mean, she probably still has to deal with it a little bit, but most of that's behind her. She's with Tony Kelly now. She's in a good place with him. She's just in a good place. And sometimes, you know, you just need that.

Like, you can be great in the gym, but sometimes you need, like, everything else outside of fighting and outside of the gym to prepare you mentally. And here we go. Andrea was competitive in all these fights despite all that stuff going on. She was winning fights with all that stuff going on. She was a win away from fighting for the title with all that stuff going on. And now she's free.

You know, she could start thinking about the belt. She doesn't feel the pressure of it because of everything else going on in her life. She's in a really good spot right now. and she has a dog, her last performance had been huge. She's living up to her potential. Yeah. She's good. We've seen a few questions about this, so I want to just,

I don't really know the answer, but yeah. What's going on with the beat? Can you guys ask Ali or Mark Henry about that, please? Believe me, we have, I mean, if you just watch the press conference, everybody will give you the same answer. Ali's done interviews about this. Mark Henry's been asked about it.

His teammates have been asked about it. It's all the same. Nobody knows. Like literally nobody knows. So, I mean, that's kind of where we're at. When Zabit's dealing with some health issues, I know there's some rumors circulating that his career might be over. Nobody knows anything.

Nobody. The one thing I do know, but Zib, he is still involved in MMA. His younger brother fought in Bellator a couple months ago, maybe three or four months ago. His younger brother had a great win in Belletor. I think he's undefeated. Zabit was there with Habibu. And, you know, we were like, hey, is the beat. You want to talk?

And he was like, he politely declined and everything. But no, but he said he's involved. But his brother said, you know, he's involved in the training camp and things like that. So he's not like, he's not out of the game completely. But as far as being competitive fighter, that's mystery right now. Only he didn't feel like talking about it. And no one and no one around him was speaking for him, rather, you know. Yeah.

Maybe it's not there. Maybe just the passion's not there. I'd rather help his brother right now. We'll see. We'll see. I mean, I'd be a great guy to have back in this division, that's for sure. Yeah, selfishly, I would love to beat back, but like, you know what? If you, if prize fighting and the fame and, you know, all of this, if that's not what you want, maybe, then just, yeah, okay, I'll just, you know, maybe I'd just like doing martial arts, you know.

That's a lot of people, you know. Nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong of that at all. Oh, okay. It's a lot of talent, though. Yeah. Who should Ben Rothwell fight next? Do you guys think you should call it a career?

I mean, that's not our decision to make, but I don't know. He's 40 years old? Yeah, he's 40 years old. He's just hitting his heavyweight prime. He had a bad night, that's all. Anyway, I mean, fun fights. Yeah, fun fights. He lost tonight, but you know what?

If on the right night, that fight still might be going on. Who knows? Yeah. You know, so, yeah, Ben Rothwell, he wasn't knocked out cold. He got hit hard and, yeah, and I think he'll be back. Is he, is Ben Rothwell going to fight for the belt? No. Is he a top 10 fighters still?

No, but I think we'll still see him on these fight night cards. I think Ben Rothera was the great guy to kind of, he's that vet. When you do vets versus prospects, he's the vet. Whoever those young, up-and-coming heavyweights are, these are the guys you put him against. in Rothwell's. I don't want, I don't know, gatekeeper,

like, he's like a top 15, top 20 gatekeeper right now. Yeah, just keep him around. He's an exciting, he's an great personality. Just,

legend's the wrong word, but he's been around for a while, and I think he deserves that, I think, I hope the UFC lets him stay around and lets him fight as long as he wants to. He feels safe.

Right. Take one more. What do we got? Maybe two. Depends what you got. All right. I find some good ones and finds some good ones.

Oh. Let me go back to my collection of them. Herb Dean. We did all the Herb Dean stuff. We did KGB stuff. Did the beat stuff. Then we got a card.

Then we got next week's card. Misha Tate versus Kettlin Vietta. And then a rare weekend off for UFC action. But then, but if you're hankering, if you're in need, we get that Triller, triad

combat card on the 27 so with Mike Perry and Frank Meier and Albert Tuminoff and do and I saw a thing in trailers hosting something a fight between 3-6 mafia and bone thugs in harmony

I don't know what that is it's not a fight it's not a fight it's a freestyle battle they should fight yeah versus freestyle battle what do you think they're going to do you think

you think they're going to have like a like a 10 man tag MMA fight? Is that out of the question? I mean, anything's possible. I mean,

how old are these guys now? They gotta be in their 40s now? Actually, I'm sure they are in their 50s, actually. That was a big bone thugs guy growing up for sure. He's 1999.

Eternal was one of like the first CDs ever bought. Um, oops. Is that it? I think we're good. I think we're good. All right. I think we've maximized this car.

And don't worry. We'll talk more about it. We got BTL, MMA hour, all sorts of fun stuff. Fighter versus Rider. Everything. We got next. We have the sky's the limit. We have a little podcast on Monday and Wednesdays called the MMA Hour with, I don't know,

some era of Wani. you know, parentheses S. Yeah, yeah. Several hours. Maybe several hours. Yeah,

so many, you got lots of stuff. Lots of talked about. Lots of talk about. We might see Max Hall. Who knows? I don't know what the lineup's going to be, but if it's Ariel,

it's going to be big. So get ready for that. We got some interviews coming up. Rob Font's getting ready to main event. I spoke with him last week. And I got to say, I've interviewed Rob Font many times. This is maybe the best Rob Font interview I've ever done

out of like probably 25 or 30. A lot discussed. There's a lot of opinions on Sterling and Jan and Dillisha and all sorts of craziness. So look for that interview this week. And Adrian Yannes will be on We Got Next this week. So stay tuned for that. Lupi Godinez fighting again next week. She is such an animal.

She'll be on We Got Next as well. I love that fight and I hate it because I love, I like, I enjoy both those women. I can't believe one has to lose. But all right. I know. But now we're not going to lose any more sleep. You can go to sleep if you want. Good night, everybody.

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