MMA Fighting - UFC Vegas 89 Post-Fight Show | Reaction To Rose Namajunas’s Win And First Biting DQ In UFC History

Episode Date: March 24, 2024

Rose Namajunas got back in the winning column on Saturday, taking a competitive unanimous decision win over Amanda Ribas in the main event of UFC Vegas 89. But while the main event had the most stakes on the card, it was a preliminary bout that stole the show when Igor Severino became the first fighter in UFC history to be disqualified for biting, when he chomped down on Andre Lima's arm in just the second fight of the evening. Following Saturday's fight card at the UFC APEX, MMA Fighting's Jed Meshew, Eric Jackman, and Alexander K. Lee react to the event, Namajunas's big win and bite-gate. Additionally, they discuss Edmen Shahbazyan's great comeback, Payton Talbott's arrival as a legitimate prospect, who took home bonuses, and Andre Lima's ability to turn getting bit into the biggest win of the evening. Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Follow Alexander K. Lee: @AlexanderKLee Follow Eric Jackman: @NewYorkRic Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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who has now successfully won a flyweight contest in the UFC. But they sound for more than just Thug Rose. They sound for so many men and women today. And for refereeing and for chaos. Because we had a little bit of everything on this card. That's right. UFC Vegas 89 is in the books. And we're here to talk about it, guys.

It's USC Vegas 89 post show. You're looking at me. You're thinking that man has a lot of hair. He's not Mike Heck. Mike Heck gloriously off. So he missed all the fun and shenanigans. But don't worry. I'm here.

We got a whole cast, crew of characters. We have the Prince of Positivity himself. Mr. Alexander Kay Lee. Unmuted. All smiles, guys. All smiles. What a fun card.

What a fun card. I've decided to be, I've decided, I haven't been earning my Prince of Positivity title recently. I feel like I've just been like, you know, I got it and I was like, oh, okay, I can just act wherever I want to. No, this is a title that we treat you with respect. So we're going positive tonight. That was a fine evening. A lovely evening. And we are also joined by Mr. New York, Eric, Eric Jackman as well.

Are you in love with New York, great? Yes. It was fun. Good to be here with you. Wow, look at, look at the vibes, just immaculate vibes. And when we're talking about immaculate vibes, I of course also must mention producer extraordinary E. Casey Liden on the ones and twos. I mean, he's got sleeves so the vibes aren't, aren't as good as they could be, but it's in the evening at this point. Even out in California, it's late. This was a late apex card. We're going to hop into it before we do. Same as always, guys.

We're going to talk about some stuff. Then we're going to take your questions at the end, fire him in the hopper. You know the deal by now. If you want to super chat us, they get priority. And then Rick will, of course, ask you to super chat back in more and more times because someone's got to pay for all that product that goes in his hair. And it's certainly not going to be me. So, boys, UFC Vegas 89.

Our main event, we're going to start there because it's the main event. I don't think it's the biggest talking point coming out of this card, frankly. Let's start at the top. Rose Domi Eunice wins a unanimous decision over Amanda Hebas. Five rounds. Very competitive fight. Certainly, Hebas staged a strong comeback. I know Casey scored the bout for Hebas in the end.

So let's start here. AK, I think we all agree this isn't a robbery, but who did you score the fight for? Yeah, I had a narrow 48, 47 for Rose. I don't say that score with like the utmost confidence. I didn't even think the 49-46s were bad. I guess I assume the score cards were out there. 49-46 would have to be one, two, four, and five rows, right? Because I think round three is when we all thought, like, Hebas kind of started to turn things around.

Look, oh, the cards are up right now. Yes, okay. So it's all 10-9 was the old, sorry, third round, 10-9 was the only one that they all gave to Hebus. So, yes, the other two judges who gave 49-46. Four rounds for it was one, two, four, and five. I don't think that's crazy. I thought four was pretty clear, Hebas, but maybe I'm out to lunch,

maybe out to lunch on that one. Either way, I did have Rose winning. The grappling was effective. There was effective grappling. She did damage in the ground. You would have like seen more on the feet, especially since Hebus landed a lot of clean shots and all five rounds too.

But yeah, I have no problem with that. I think Navajunis' striking was on point. I think some of the on-screen numbers might have messed with people. Jed, I know we were talking in the slack about, But there was like a huge advantage for Hebas in round five. People look at the on-screen significant strike numbers. It was like 30 to 11 or something. And I'm like, I don't see 30 significant strikes for Hebus and only 11 for Namajunis.

So I would always caution people on-screen, definitely the on-screen live scoring, excuse me, strike tally is not to be taken as law. And even after they tabulate, even after they get the proper UFC stats.com significant strike stats, that does not necessarily tell the story of a fight. because a significant strike can range from a light jab to like a cracking haymaker, right? Those are both significant strikes. It just doesn't tell the story. You have to watch the fight.

So I thought all the rounds were pretty close. I would have seen Rose do have more impactful attacks on the ground again. But I thought she did enough on the ground to take the rounds where she closed out, like, you know, the last couple of minutes by being on top. I think that left a good impression on the judges. And I have no problem with the scores. I went 40 or 47, though. That's what I also scored it. To your point, though,

AK, we were talking. I was very surprised by those numbers in the fifth round just because it wasn't reflective of what I was seeing. But, dude, if you want to score, I thought the first three rounds were pretty clear, you know, two for rows, one for Hebas, anything else you want to score after that. I don't have any issues with it.

I was surprised two 4946s, but again, not bad scorecards, just not what I had. Rick, how did you feel about the main, event how and most importantly how did you score do you think rose is the rightful winner yeah i had rose 49 46 but you know there were some close rounds in there i i think to your point like honestly even like round two and and it seems like one of the judges scored for he bus i thought could have gone he bus his way so they were close but i ultimately gave i had the same scorecard as the

two judges that scored at 49 46 um how did i feel about it like uneventful uninspiring um If you're Rosnami Unis and you're trying to make a splash at Flyweight and enter this new division now with a win, you know, after dropping your flyweight debut, like not not thrilled with it. Didn't think it was that great. Also, Hebas is kind of a strawweight as well. Like maybe, you know, at this point, we can kind of definitively say they can float between strawweight and flyweight, but like just not inspiring is kind of my biggest takeaway.

way. I want to touch back on that with the U.A.K. But I did pull up the stats from UFCStats.com. They should stop showing stats real time because UFC stats now has the fifth round as 25 to 24 significant strike in favor of Rose, which is in no way what was on the screen at all for that fifth. So if there's that big a gulf between what they're settling on, that's really bad because it was like, oh, Hebas is outlanding her by a considerable amount mathematically, which like I said, I didn't think was true. And sort of my vision of it ended up playing out. Hebus landed 28% of her significant strike attempts in the fifth round, 24 of 85. So took them a while to tabulate, but there were goes. So the point being close competitive fight of Hebas had won.

it wouldn't have been awful. Rose getting 4946 is okay. But, AK, I want to circle back to what Eric said at the end there about this, you know, the floating between weight classes, sort of where we're at for Rose in her career, this being a bit underwhelming considering who Rose is as, at least who our perception of Rose, the star, the former champion is. How does this fight sit with you for Rose's future ostensibly at flyweight? She's kind of repeated the line.

not going back down. In her post-fight interview, she talked about feeling stronger up here because she put on the weight for this fight, but that she also felt slower. So what are you taking away for Rose as a flyweight contender, I guess? Well, before I give my opinion, we should definitely let people know that they can share their opinion in a poll that I threw up on the YouTube. Is Rose Navajunis a contender at 125 pounds after her win at UC Vegas 89? already within like five minutes

we've got almost 300 votes pretty firmly no pretty firmly no 59% and yeah and I think I was kind of leaning that way even when we were doing the preview show I think I said some to the effect of even if Rose like wows us on Saturday

and takes out Amanda Hebas I don't know if what that means for her as far as being a flyweight contender because again Amanda is a good fighter who bounces between two weight classes if we think size is going to an issue for Rose as I think it did matter in the Menon fight a little bit. I mean, Menon was considerably bigger.

This win tonight does not really remedy that in any way because, again, Amanda is just a straw weight who doesn't cut weight when she fights at 125. I think that's what Rose is too. So I quite enjoyed the fight, and I was glad to see Rose get a win. This was her first win in, I want to say, two and a half years. Most of that due to inactivity, of course,

it's not like she's been on some crazy-ass losing streak. But, yeah, it has been a while since we've seen Rose, seen her hand raised. And when you consider how fast the sport moves, that's like two and a half years is like a lifetime ago. So it's encouraging.

You know, it's encouraging. I think she still has it. Her skills are still clearly there. She's still one of the most well-rounded fighters in either division. But I would not pick her to beat Aaron Blanchfield. Again, I would not pick her to win

a Manol rematch. She kind of called for the winner of the Atlantic City. Is that the main event? Atlanta City main event. It is the main event. It is the main event. Yeah, she kind of called for the winner of that fight.

And I don't think Aaron should have to fight her. I know Rose is considerably more famous is obviously more accomplished so far in her career, but it just feels like Aaron Blanchville has already done enough to earn a title fight, and if she takes care of Mano, having a fight again would just

be straight up absurd. So I don't know where Rose goes. I think she could have a lot of fun fights at 125, and I support her not wanting to cut weight down to 115. It can't be fun. I know I do think it's her ideal weight class. I do think that's where she fights the best. But if she says she's been suffering at

that weight and it's just not worth it considering how much she's already accomplished there, then I can't be glad to her. As a fan, of course, I want to see her drop back down. I want to see her fight Zhang Wei again. She's already beaten her twice. If Zhang has a, you know, strings together another couple of title defenses. Why shouldn't Rose go after her again, right? But again, if that's not in the cards, I totally understand.

Maybe she's just a fun fighter at 125, but I don't see her making a serious run for the title. Even if she gets the title shot, it would be based on name value. I just don't see her having a super strong resume at 125. Rick, how do you feel? Do you think Rose Namu, Eunice, not even can win the title? Do you think she has the ability, from what you've seen at her flyweight at the moment, to make a title run? Title run, potentially.

I mean, I just think that there's opportunities where she can win a lot of the fights against the top flyweight. But I do, I am starting to question what her level is. and maybe this is this is going to feel pretty hindsighty but I'm just looking at the resume in recent years I'm looking at the loss to Manin looking at the loss to Asparza I'm looking at the split decision against Zhang Wei

which I scored for Zhang Wei Li and in either case you could you could slice that that was a close fight the head kick over Zhang great win win over Jessica Andrash he kind of got pieced up in the third round there like bad then you go back to the loss of Jessica Andrash and then you go back to the win over Yawanna.

So like the run's not been great, if I'm being honest. The run's not been great. I'm starting to wonder where Rose Namibunis is at, whether it's at strawweight or flyweight, if I'm being honest. That's where I'm at right now is like, where is Rose Namai Yunus? Because this performance didn't tell me much and it didn't inspire. Can she be a potential contender in each division? Yeah, because she'll get the fights to be a contender in either division.

but I'm less than impressed with the recent history for Rosamunas. I feel that. Like she's still young, but she's got some mileage on her. I think this is her 11th or 12th year of fighting, which is a lot of years of fighting. And I think you guys, I'll say a little more firmly. I don't think she's going to be competitive at 125. I think she can be competitive with a lot of people there. I just

I think that it's not a bad call out to call for the winner of of Manon Blanchfield just because the timeline at Flyweight makes that fight maybe possible she can beat Menon or she already lost to her but that she can win that fight at least theoretically I think Blanchfield will just thump her and I also think Blanchfield,

AKT, to run counter to you I think Blanchfield might just choose to take the fight because she wants to fight and she knows that with Shivchenko and Grasso holding up the division forever at this point in time, if she waits for her title shot, she's going to be waiting until at best December, much more likely 2025. So interesting times at flyweight and women's flyweight. And frankly, we don't need to spend too much more time on this unless you guys got questions.

Remember, get your questions in. We're going to answer them at the back. Look, there's some other fights to talk about. And we can put those on the list. We got to talk about the thing of the evening. On the prelims, a thing happened, boys. And I got to tell you, I've been covering the sport professionally for almost a decade. I've been following this sport for close to 30 years, like 25 years, I think, of a fandom.

And this isn't some stuff I've seen in the modern MMA game in a prelim bout between undefeated prospects, The second fight of the evening, Andre Lima takes on Igor Severino. It's a super fun fight back and forth affair. Lots of stuff happening. It was electric. And then in the middle of a weird clinched position, Lima starts kind of gesturing to referee Chris Tione. I believe it was Chris Tione. I'm not 100%, but I'm pretty sure.

Tione does a bad job of stopping the fight. He just says stop the action and doesn't touch anybody. And then it's finally like, okay, stop and gets and stops. And you're trying to figure out what happens. And what had happened was Igor Severino bit Andre Lima on the left bicep hard, apparently based on the bite marks that were then very visible after this immediately decued. It's a bunch of weirdness.

And I'm not 100%, but I do think that this is the first DQ via biting in UFC history. So that's now a thing, fellas. And Rick, I just want to toss this to you right out of the gate. What just happened? And why did it happen? And where do we go from here? Why did it happen? I cannot answer for you.

I have no idea why in the middle of a competitive fight he decided to bite his opponent. Could not tell you. Just got zero idea. You know what? The best estimation of why is maybe he thought he could get away with it like everything. else. You foul and you foul and you foul and most of the time you do get away with it. He tried and this time he got caught with his hand in the cookie jar or his teeth on the arm, whatever you know, you want to say. His teeth in the cookie jar. He made too much of an impression,

like literally in his arm. He made too much of an impression to the point where it's undeniable how badly he fouled his opponent. But I just like for me the story is just Lima. Like, this dude has taken and run with this opportunity and become like a guy like in the course of a few hours Dana White's you know talking about how much he loves him he got the tattoo of the of the of the bite impression let's explain that let's explain that yeah because what what happened is immediately after the fight Dana White sees lembe backstage Dana white is in attendance at an apex which is not always the case but for whatever reason he was this week uh sees lemma backstage and comes up and and tells him we hear this from garemea cruz our own told us that lima's uh agent or coach manager

one of them uh talked to him and said that dano i was like hey i'm going to give you the first ever you got bit bonus it's uh hour and a half later whatever that timeline is lima goes out gets the bite the bite mark tattooed with you got bit bonus over it dan away puts it on his instagram says it was going to give him 20k now i'm giving him 50k And Andre Lima, who is a hot shot prospect, frankly, a guy who I was super high on this contender series, takes one of the weirder moments in history, in recent UFC history, and turns it into an unmitigated win across the board for him. I just wanted to get that out in case people are watching or listening to this later and don't know what we're talking about, but you're right, Rick. He took this opportunity, grabbed with both hands. He's running with it. Yeah.

Yeah, we just saw the UFC socials tweet. out the bite of the night. It is official. All the bonuses are official, by the way, so we can talk about that in a second. But yes, they made an extra graphic. There it is. There's the bite of the night, Andre Lima. That's tremendous. I hope fighters are aware that he is the one who was bitten, and this does not encourage them to try and get a bite of the night bonus going forward. You have to get bitten, guys, not be the biter. I'm pretty sure the only thing that Igor Severino got tonight was a pink slip, not any sort of fight night bone.

So, yeah, this was strange. Jed, you were asking before, like, if this has ever happened in UFC history, no, no, I had to go back. I remembered a similar incident on the Ultimate Fighter. This was the very little watched Ultimate Fighter 16 team Shane Carwin versus team Roy Nelson. And it was, where is his name? John Manly choked out James Cheney, but James Cheney tried to bite his. his way out of the choke and later admitted to it. He later admitted, yeah, yep, I tried to bite him.

So there wasn't much controversy because he got submitted anyway. But yes, that's the last time I can think of a UFC, even, you know, tangential fight, having someone so blatantly bite someone else. It was, I'm glad we can all laugh about it. I'm glad that Lima wasn't hurt. It was kind of a freaky moment, man. And for Severino, I know we're all crapping on them. And rightfully so, like, that's a disgusting thing.

We joke all the time that people should, well, somewhat joke, somewhat serious, that people should keep up biting someone. That's definitely crossing a line. I think we can all agree. Some people are like, oh, there's no, like, I saw a few reactions like, oh, there's no warning. And it's like, yeah, there's no warning. You're just disqualified. This isn't a glancing low blow, accidental fingers in the eye. This is not gamesmanship.

This is a guy biting another dude. I'm not even entirely sure why. Like, it was just such a, it was such a weird. He wasn't like getting crushed in the fight. or anything. It was a deeply weird. It was a deeply weird bite because to your point, A.K., you, and Casey, we were talking about this before the show, Casey did not see it in real time, so he assumed, like you

would, that the man was trying to bite his way out of a choke. Because we've seen, like you said, we have seen that. Michael Chandler was famously accused of biting Dustin Porreier, or Michael Chandler was accused of fish-hooking Porier, and then, Porier was like, so I bid him. which is an incredible thing. Like, yeah, it's fingers of my mouth, so I just jumped on him. But that's very different. This was a functionally neutral position and his head is just kind of buried in the arm.

And you can't, to be to be absolutely clear, you can never see the bite happen because of the camera angles, but it is incontrovertible that it did. And it's just an unbelievable story, guys. Like, Rick, did you wake up thinking today's the day? We're finally going to get a bite in the UFC. I was hoping. I was hoping. I was hoping that today would be the day.

No, certainly not. And I think it caught us all off guard. I don't think most people knew what the break in action was when it was first occurring. Like, you know, I thought maybe it was something to grabbing a fence or a low blow or something to that effect. And then we take a pause and credit to referee Christaioni who like, took the pause, figured out what's going on, calls in the commissioners, figures out what the proper protocol is here. They see the replay. They kind of see that there's some kind of bite going on.

He shows the impression on his arm and it's a rap. So I thought it was handled quite well once it was clear what was going on. And yeah, there's no warning for biting your opponent. I think that we can mostly all agree that that's an automatic DQ, but it's a lot of. It sounds like AK's found some savage individuals who are trying to bring that back. AK's not alone. There were a couple because I immediately tweeted out a criticism of Brendan Fitzgerald, who I like, I like Brendan personally. And I also think that he is good at his job.

But he is on the call and was like, they didn't even give him a warning. Like they're just going straight to the DQ. And then even after Paul Felt was like, no duty bid him. He was like, yeah, but like there's been similar stuff. And like, you would just think that they would do this. And it's like, no. this is the most clear and obvious DQ of all time. And I tweeted that out.

And I had some people in the mentions being like, no, like, it would have been fine. Let him go on. It gets just because he bit him and he didn't like cut him open does not mean this works, guys. So easily the second most electric thing that happened this evening or the most electric thing. Igor, I just want to add, Igor, I was, I meant to say this for it. Igor is only 20 years old. He's a young man. Now, by the time you're 20, you should be learning not to bite people.

But I've never been a 20-year-old person. You should be learning not to bite people by the time you're two. I was literally hanging out. Yes, this is true. Certainly by 20. That was on the things we talked about was biting when I was with a two-year-old earth today in his parents. Certainly by 20, you should.

But again, I've never been a 20-year-old in a cage fight. He just, you know, maybe he just lost his sense. He lost his sense. You have to be a little crazy to even become a professional fighter. So he might just went a little bit further over the edge and bit. But I think the release is justified. It's just not a thing that you want your contracted fighters to be doing. And he could still get his way back.

Just behave well for the next couple of years. He can get his way back. He's an exciting fighter. He's a talented guy. I just hope I'll be keeping an eye for his name because, you know, we do miss fists every week. Jed, you know, I have this thing about covering the regional international scene. And if he bites someone again, you bet your ass is going to be the headline of this feature. So, Igor, just behave and maybe we'll be talking about you again soon.

Can we all acknowledge he needs to immediately come out with like the Hannibal Lecter mask next time? Oh, no. To completely lean into the thing and just make it his persona from now on. I don't hate it. It's definitely weird though because the whole situation is really weird. Lean into the skid. I'm usually a fan of. But if you bite somebody else, you're just going to be known as the guy who,

bites people. Yeah. You know of that. Look, nobody else has that gimmick in MMA, so I guess you can have that, but it's not the one you want, particularly because you're 20 years old. You have a window. And I don't actually think we ever stated it clearly, but Igor Severino was released by the UFC within like 20 minutes of this all going down.

And Dana White made some statements to, I think, Kevin Ioli about, you know, obviously we had to let go of him. and he's going to be dealing with a lot more issues because the commissions are going to get involved. And I would be shocked if he is not fined. You know, it's not a great scene. Maybe he does overcome this and this becomes a weird thing because, hey, guys, Mike Tyson famously bit a dude's ear off. And now he's beloved in fighting Jake Paul 30 years later.

So everyone loves a comeback story. Igor Severino, you get yours. And teaming up with that person to sell like. products about biting. So like, yeah, who knows, Andre and Igor could be working on something here. There's always a time. Defenders in cybersecurity are always there when we need them. They should get a parade every time they block a novel threat and have streets, sandwiches, and babies named in their honor. But most of all, they deserve AI cybersecurity that can stop novel threats before they become breaches across email, clouds, networks, and more. Dark Trace is the

cybersecurity defenders deserve and the one they need to defend beyond. Visit darktrace.com forward slash defenders for more information. Support for this show comes from the audible original, the downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. The earth only has a few days left. Roscoe Cadulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored. consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up

to the audible original blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. available now only from Audible. Speaking of great comebacks,

we're not going to talk about the penultimate fight because no one wants to talk about Carl Williams who did get Justin Taffa via unanimous decision in a heavyweight, heavyweight fight. But there was a very cool comeback right before that in the Edmund Shabazian taking on AJ Dobbson fight. We're not going to go through all of the fights on the main car, but this one and one other I do think merit talking about.

And it's let's go to Shabazian, AK. We talked offline. You know, you were on the preview show yesterday. Sort of mixed bag around people's views on where Shabazian is as a prospect. He's still young, but his defeats have been so tough. And it looked like he was doing that against Dobson. Dobson came out, jawed him with a great right hand. But he managed to survive and then kind of tagged Dobson with a very weird left hook

and smell blood in the water and finish the drill. Really solid comeback for a first round win. for Shabasian how do you take this performance sort of give me your thoughts on on this fight there's never been any questions about Shabasian's like striking offense we he is blessed with knockout power okay he's one of the few people to knock out Brad Tavares and Brad Devaris has fought in the UFC like 20 something times and I think he's been knocked out maybe twice or if that and Shabasian's one of it was a great knockout too um so his offense has never been a question it's the it's the grappling defense specifically but uh certainly early in

fight, I was worried about just his defense in general, just his chin, just has this guy already taken too much damage less than 10 years into a pro fighting career? Because he's, he's, those losses he had, he's, none of them were like flash chaos. They were prolonged like he got taken down. He got, he kind of gassed out a little bit and he took like poundings. Like those are his loss. His losses in the UFC are ugly and memorable for the wrong reasons. And I was worried that when Tompson like cracked him. I was like, oh man, like maybe this is just who he is now. Like he's just a guy who cannot take damage anymore, even at only 26 years old. It sounds crazy to say, but when you're thrown to the UFC so early, so I'm seeing he made

his debut, he was, so he was like 20, 21, 21 when he made his UFC debut, hence the golden boy. Once you get on that UFC clock, man, it is hard to get recalibrated, you know what I mean? Because suddenly you're fighting like a guy like Derek Brunson, you know, you're fighting Jack Kermaneson, Nassar Diyemabov. These are like three straight losses he had. And clearly, clearly, they're not just a notch above Edmund. They are several knots above Edmund.

It was too early for him to fight those guys. But again, you're in the UFC. You've picked up some big wins. The match wrenakers should really have no choice, at least as far as promoting you, to kind of keep sending you upwards. So Dobson was the right opponent for him. I feel like we've got him back to where we think he should be.

If he had lost this fight, I honestly don't know what direction his career would have gone. I saw people asking at 26 with this is he cooked is he cooked at 26 who loses AJ Dobson clearly not again he won but it's weird in a way I feel like we still didn't have any questions answered because he got hurt he came back in one with his striking which is what he always does and there was some grappling involved actually that he initiated so we maybe learned a little but i think he's still such an unpredictable fighter at least in these situations and i still think if he bases anyone with grappling in the middleweight division,

it's not going to go his way. So great win, prolonged his UFC career, as it were. I have no idea if this should convince anyone that he's going to reach those lofty heist that he was once expected to reach. Jed, you are muted, sir. Whoops. Rick, any thoughts on Chabazin before we move to bonuses?

Because bonuses have dropped. So if you have anything about Edmund, drop it, because I doubt we'll be talking about it much after this. No, feel pretty similar to AK, like, you know, kind of a stay of execution. Like didn't really like put the nail in the coffin, nor did it make me think like, wow, this is a new wrinkle for Edmund's game. Like it was just kind of onto the next. But yeah, I mean, incredible comeback, like bonus deserving as we're about to get into bonuses.

Stay of execution is a fantastic way to put it because they had him walk up the stairs. his head was in the guillotine and then just popped it out at the last minute, terrific stuff. We got bonuses, boys. Have either of you seen them? I have. Okay. Okay. You're out of this.

Rick, would you care to take a guess at what our bonuses this evening were? Can you just give me, do we have only performances or do we have a fight of the night? We have a fight of the night. Okay. Shabazzian performance. incorrect okay tough scenes for him too but incorrect and I don't think it's wrong either

all right um Peyton Talbot performance that is absolutely correct um wait let me try to do fight of the night what do we got here what do we got here if you just look at the card you should be able to determine fight of the night uh was it when and and errands

that's correct Okay. And then so one more performance. Is that going to be, is that going to be Erosa? No, Fernando Padilla. Okay. Yeah. And of course, bite of the night goes to Andre Limo, which is officially on Wikipedia. So shouts to Wikipedia for having bite at night. As it should be.

Yeah. As it should be. Some good finishes on this card. You had some bonuses to choose from, truly. Like, this card delivered, it punched way above its weight for what, you know, the expectations were coming in. I'm not sure I'm willing to go that far because there were also a lot of other fights that happened. But it was not a bad Saturday evening. If you had nothing else going on, absolutely.

Last thing I want to talk about before we pop into the questions, the guy you mentioned, the show stealer of the card in a world where out without biting, maybe the guy who I'd be talking about the most coming out of this, Peyton Talbot beats Cameron Simon second round TKO immediately the second round and he got a performance bonus absolutely deserved it. The best performance of anyone on this whole card is a guy I'm super high on as a prospect, aka how far do we think Talbot can go? We don't have to stay here too long because I think we'll have some questions on him. But what are you taking away from this Talbot performance? Blown away, man.

Blown away. I'm at the point now where it would surprise me if he wasn't ranked by next year. I've seen people are already saying they want to throw him against a top 15 opponent, which would be fun, but not necessary at all. This is an extremely deep division. Again, guys, we are talking about 135 here with featherweight and lightweight, like two wins. I don't care if you're a top prospect, two wins in the UFC. And I think only like eight, I think it's like eight and no or seven and no right now.

He's so early in his career. It would be insane. He can't skip over a bunch of people. It probably wouldn't be good for him to skip over a bunch of people. But a year from now, could he be facing a top 15 or even a top 20 guy and be on such a streak that we give that the UFC puts a 15 or 14 next to his name? I could see it. I could see it. They like them.

They're always eager to find contender series success stories. And so far, he has looked great. I was blown away. I picked Simon to win. Not because I thought Simon is so much better than him. but I thought he'd faced a higher level. He's younger, but he's faced a higher level of competition. I think he's just a little bit more battle tested.

And I thought Taubo looks good at his UFC debut, but, you know, young, looked young. They're both young guys, Talbot and Simon. But I was, I just underestimate his striking the athleticism in size. We know that's an advantage for him, but he's using it effectively. You know, he's, I thought he paced himself well. I thought round one, I was like, oh, man, he's going to punch himself out. but I was totally wrong.

He came out in round two, had a lot of pep in a step, and ended it less than 30 seconds in a round two. So yeah, I thought both guys had the potential to be ranked, like potential. Now I, and I still like Simon,

but he has a little bit further to go now after that's lost. And I think Talbot, again, will have, you know, not, I'm not going to say top 10, but top of Dean by 2025, sometime in 2025,

sometimes 2025, it feels very likely. A hell of a talent. Rick, wax poetic on Peyton Talbot. Yeah, I mean, I don't think I need to. I think the proof is in the pudding. Like there's certain guys you can look at when they step in the cage and see it. Whatever, whatever that it thing is, you can see it.

Now, you know, who knows what the, what the future holds in terms of like, does he have Mike skills? And is there a personality that can people to latch onto? But he's got the baseline foundation for that stardom that could. potentially be upcoming, which is that he can fight. Like this is obviously the first opponent of his, whose name I recognize, who I've, you know, could even recall any of their fights. And he aced that test.

So, you know, we've got, we've got steps to go. We've got levels to go. And we've got a road ahead that is going to take some time to get down. But when you watch him fight, it's very obvious, right? I don't think there's anybody that watch that fight that goes, yeah, I still need to kind of see if he's any good. Like, it's clear. It's very clear now.

Now, we're going to have to see him at an increased level of competition. But I'm impressed. I'm paying attention. And I'm excited about his future. As in my, man. I love, I loved him off the contingency. And he is, that was an unbelievable performance. Rest of the results.

And we'll pop to your questions. Yusuf Zalal just kind of beats the tar out of Billy Quarantillo. second round rear naked choke submission. Fernando Padilla Bravo chokes Luis Paolo in the first round. Pauela is going to be a super fun get-or-gat guy and he got got. Trey Ogden defeats Kurt Hollabaw by unanimous decision. Julina Rosa upset win over Ricardo Ramos with a guillotine joke comeback-ish guillotine choke in the first round.

Miles John U.D. over Cody Gibson. The tough members, AK, they dropped for you. I'm sorry. John Irons beat Steve Wynn, UD, Darya Zelenskyakovah takes a unanimous decision over Mansourat Rindon. Maybe it wasn't a great decision, but also just no one will ever care. And then Mick Parkin opened things up with the UD over Muhammad Usman. That's U.C. Vegas 89 in the books. And that means it's time for your question, y'all.

We'll answer the superchats and maybe a few others, but we don't need to spend three hours talking about this fight card. because it was a perfectly fine one, but it's late. We got other things to do. So, Casey, come on in. You're in. I don't know, Jed. We got a lot of super chats. We got a lot of super chats, guys.

We'll answer all the super chats. We'll get to all the super chats. We'll be here forever. At least I will. There could be more to come. Stop encouraging him. I can't keep anyone else, but I'll stay. All right, all right.

Okay, so let's fire it up. Let's let the people have their say about Vegas 89. We got our first super chat from somebody named, a wonderful name of Casey. Mm. Casey. Jedmishu is the goat. How many more for Talbot before ranked opponent? In my opinion, I think three minimum.

When we did, we did kind of answer this. I will just throw out one. Thank you, Casey. I really appreciate that. Two, absolutely untrue. The goat's name is Esther Lynn. So get that one right. And three, I'm with, I'm with.

I'm with Rick, I'm with AK. I don't think they need to rush him. I don't know if the three minimum feels wrong. It'll probably be three. But they're going to do the thing they do. They'll escalate him up a little bit. They may give him one more even opponent. But even Cameron Simon was a step up and like a step up with intention, right?

Simon is another dude who's very young and was a prospect. So now they know, okay, Talbot's our best pantomweight prospect. They'll let him get his feet wet. But I would, I suspect by early 2025, we see him get, you know, Pedro Munoz, if he's still hanging around the rankings, that feels like something they would do. So yeah, and I think he's got a great chance of working well on that timeline. Kid has all the promise in the world. When is it a good time to rush someone?

Because we always say that. I hope they don't rush him. I hope they don't rush him. But what I, I, oh, you're muted, Mr. Jackson. I think it's... You're muted, Mr. Jackman. Sorry. Never am.

When they've got not a lot of miles left, when it's Alex Pereira and the clock is running and you need to get them into a title fight with Izzy, that's the only scenario where you really rush somebody. So that's strictly age, just an age. Miles. Miles. You could be age, but for me, it's miles, right? Alex Pereira's been fighting for a very long time. And so you need to get them there. You need to get them there against Izzy before that clock expires.

So that's the only scenario that I can think. When it comes to like a young prospect, I would say never. You should not, you should not cheat the system. Let them have the time to develop. I'm with Rick on this. Because there were a couple of contender series guys this most recent season who are like Pereira, former glory kickboxers. And so they have miles.

They are older and you're bringing them in. But even if they're young in MMA, they still have a lot of combat experience. I'm more open to being like, hey, we can't slow burn them. Let's find out. Payton Tal was 25. There's absolutely no need. That used to be the U.S.C.'s MO. And for every every 300 you do, you get a John Jones, the youngest champion ever.

And then the rest of them, you burn out and they don't develop because that's not how you develop good fighters. So no is the right answer, 98% of the time. Was Cameron Simon rushed? Was he pushed too fast? He has two back-to-back losses and he just got knocked out pretty bad Well, we got T-K were pretty bad But the losses were against other prospects, right?

It's not like they rushed to me. There's still losses. If you lose against Pedro Munoz You're still getting beaten up. You can lose in the regional scene too. If you lose in the regional scene, does that mean you were rushed? No, it just means you lost, right?

It doesn't mean you were rushed. Yeah. So we are clear. Cameron Simon has not fought anyone with the Wikipedia page. So I don't, I think by definition, he can't be considered rushed because like yeah Christian Rodriguez has proven to be a game gritty fighter but I don't that's not like at the time it certainly wasn't this massive step up and Talbot was a guy with one UFC fight and certainly a guy we believed in but I think that these are appropriate these are just losses you take as you're finding your way I think what Casey's getting at though is maybe they could have kept them separate longer right if you thought that Cameron Simon could be like a blue chip or maybe you you keep them away from somebody like Talbot but I think it's one of those where one was going to get got, and that's just how it broke out.

Yeah, I actually didn't like this fight being booked, especially for Simon, but it is what it is, as they say. So, all right. Yeah. Because of this situation for Simon, because the situation happened. So that's why I kind of say that. One last note of this I'll say is it's hard to put a number and just say three or four fights because this is assuming, like, Talbot State, the fight game is so unpredictable. He might suffer for minor injury or he might just decide. to take like eight months off, like,

so he could win two, like his next two fights, and then let's say he doesn't fight again until December of 2025, then it changes his whole momentum, right? Then it doesn't, he could be like, oh, well, now he needs another two fights to get a ranked opponent, right? It's hard, it's so tricky in this game

because you can go from so hot to so cold if you're struck by inactivity for whatever reason, and so that could be the case atop. So it's hard to put a number on it and just say, oh, well, he wins three fights against a ranked guy because it's not guaranteed, like they don't hold your spot for you if you miss time. By the way, it's not, it's not,

oftentimes these things are thought of as like this like UFC decision alone, but like it's really up to his team and his management to keep him on the right track. And it's not just the UFC. UFC could offer him a short notice ranked guy to save a card and do this and that. It's really a collaborative effort that needs to happen. And his team needs to handle his career carefully because they have somebody that I think a lot of people will say is a blue chipper. So don't, don't blow that, you know.

and it's not just like the UFC could say, hey, I want you to fight a ranked opponent tomorrow and it's up to them to navigate his career properly. So yeah, it's not just a UFC decision. And then you run the risk of the matchmakers hating on you because you turned down a fight.

Exactly. Which is a whole other, that's a whole other matchmaking policy. Oh, it happens all the time. They do. They do rarely hate prospects who turn down. Yeah. So, you know, that's their favoritism is blatant and obvious.

in these things. Like, I really doubt they would be like, unless Talbot turns down like eight fights, which does not seem likely, I doubt they'd be like, ah, screw that kid. They'd be like,

oh, it's fine. You're allowed to do that. We think you're good. Yeah. Yeah. You, UFC would never be petty. That's not them.

One of the three. I understand what you're saying, I got you. One of the three biggest winners of the night when we say Rose Talbot, Zalalalal? No, Lima easily. Yeah, Lima's.

Oh, this is true. The most talked, I mean, the most talked about. I think there's a clear argument, Lima is the top winner of the evening. Yeah. He's the most talk to. I don't think it's debatable. He's number one by far. Dana White knows and likes him.

Yeah. And he's a flyweight. So like, shit, Steve Ursaig's fighting for a title is third fight. Before fight the company. Like, Lima's another good turn away from being a top 15 dude fast-tracked. Yeah, I think he won the night. by a mile. Yeah.

What a great thing. Thank you, Casey. It was super chatting with you. All right. Lazy bed. Lazy bed. Just a staple. Lima with the criminally egregious, eges, fence grabs.

Shaney, you got canned. Scruff McGruff, Severino was just taking a bite out of crime. So we did mention this, but it is true. And I want to make a note of this because I did see someone in the comments call me a hypocrite. I don't think they mean it, you know, meanly. but I say all the time, me and Mike Heck, cheat, just always cheat. Cheating is the best answer always because you're never going to get punished for it. There's a line, people, between cheating and being an idiot, and that line is exactly Igor Severino.

Because Andre Lima was cheating and he wasn't punished for it. That's great. It was great work by him. When you cheat and cheat in a way that is blatantly bad and you leave visible evidence like a bite mark, that's bad cheating don't do the bad cheating do the normal regular cheating

I also don't condone bringing like a gun into the cage because that also would be cheating and is clearly not a good plan do you guys have any thoughts on the fence grabs? Somebody's second amendment I thought it was understood

I thought it was understood when we as we frequently say oh we encourage cheating part of good cheating is not getting caught. That shouldn't need to be said, guys. That is in any, not as an MMA, any sport, any sport. If you cheat and you get away with it, I applaud you. You did something to help yourself win or your sports team win, whatever. As long as you're not hurting on anybody. Again, this was, this was both. This was so obvious that he was going to get caught. And two, like really kind of a nasty thing to

do to someone. And I mean, I know they're doing a lot of things to hurt each other in there, but kind of a nasty thing to do. He bit him. He bit him. So Lima was not getting, look, yeah, you're right. He wasn't getting in the fence grab called. Great, good job, Lima. Sovereino, you got the bite called your fight lost your UFC career over for now.

No, no tip of the cap. No, no clap for you, sir. That was bad. That's bad cheating, guys. That's the worst kind of cheating. I mean, I will say congratulations to doing it in a way that no one could have ever seen. because even the video replay couldn't catch you doing it. But again, you left this, you left evidence at the scene of the crime.

That's not how that works. You know, you got to be. Also, I see what I'm asking. I see what asking. You guys may know better than I do. How did he do it through the mouthpiece? Is it just that I guess the mouthpiece he clamped on with the mouthpiece and just bit down super hard.

And that's why I left kind of like. You have to bite down very hard to leave impressions on the, I assume the top row. Because there seem to be impressions on top and bottom row. to leave impressions on the top row, you have to bite very hard. I'm not sure. I might try to bite myself with my mouth garden later tonight just to see if it's possible. I don't, I didn't think I honestly didn't think you could. You maybe just be able to do it just because of where it is and it's more of a pinching, like, mechanism on that arm piece as opposed to like of deep bite.

But yeah, I mean, like, it, he bit the shit out of him. Yeah. There's just no other explanation for what happened other than he bit the shit out of him. Oh, wow. Didn't think that's where we're going to be talking about this evening, boys, when it started. Fighting just makes you go crazy because that's all, that's the only, that's the only real explanation. He just kind of went crazy for a couple of seconds. It's still so weird, though.

He wasn't losing. Like you, I get it. I don't understand how Mike Tyson's brain goes from. from in a clinch to biting a man's ear off, but I can't understand how that jump is made. He's not like he was losing, but he was not losing by a lot. It was a deeply competitive fight.

Oh, there was a mention of talking about previous bites. Rhonda did technically bite Liz Carmuch. And there were actually teeth marks on Liz Carmush. Did she bite her or did Liz Carmuch's forearm go into her teeth? Hey, it would. Yes, yes. If you want to be. You're really.

Because you can't bite with the top. The jaw is a stable mechanism. You got to bite with the jaw. I'm just saying. It was, there is a photo of Liz Karmouche with teeth marks from Ronda after the fight, but it's just obviously it was a different situation.

But that's why I assume. That's on Liz. Yeah. Rhonda's jaw was not moving. Her skull is stationary. Hey, Rhonda knows how to cheat. Let me just say. She cheated, she did not get.

If they don't call it, it's not cheating. That's just savvy. Thanks, Lazy Bed. Super chatting with you. Boarding from flight 246 to Toronto is delayed 50 minutes. What? Sounds like Ojo time. Play Ojo? Great idea.

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your travel bug, but your taste buds too. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Conditions apply. Because this is a super chat and they pay $2.99, we have to answer this. We'll answer this question. Last one in the biting. Big Daddy Crave, which is more effective? Biting or the oil check?

The oil check is definitely more effective. Just because you can get away with that much easier because there's not physical evidence in the same way that teeth marks is. But I mean, biting is also an effective strategy if you're in like a street fight. Well, there could be some physical evidence. That's why they caught an oil check. I mean, I'm just saying. We don't need to get in details.

It's hard. It would just not be the same to prove that one. Although that one also is much harder, I think, to hide on camera. I just hope this question is not asking, which is more effective if you, you know, did an oil check or if you did biting in the area where an oil check would target, if you know what I'm saying. I hope that is not. You just had to take it to ask. I just have to take it there.

I want to clarify. I don't think that's what being asked. I don't think that's what's being asked. I don't think that's what's being asked. You just wanted to put it on print for this website. I just want to make sure I'm about clarity. I'm about clarity. We need to move on before AK gets fucked up.

Jeez, AK. A couple more super chats coming in. Thanks, to D-Dade, Crave. Thank you very much. Make sure. All right. There's no picture of. Tiger shark diver, that is exactly what we're talking about.

I'm not going to reference that, but yes. From Stephen, Jed, Mr. Ratega is very upset. He wants to have dinner and figure this out. Also, Mr. Chandler is a guest. Please give them fighter advice, advice. I don't want to have dinner with eyes. That honestly sounds miserable. Having dinner with Brian Ortega and Michael Chandler's just there.

Like, he's just over there. Sounds super awkward and weird. My advice is very simple. Brian Ortega should really learn how to defend himself other than just having a great chin. That would be instrumental to being like an actual champion. For Michael Chandler, I don't know. Honestly, I don't hate what Michael Chandler does.

I just don't like him, you know. I actually think he's managed his UFC career exceptionally well. it is deeply funny that he has spent the last year and a half begging Connor functionally, but I don't like I've never once said that's the wrong decision. He's waiting for the payday, which I get. And it looks like he's going to get it now. Hopefully, knock on wood, believe it when it happens. But I don't have any advice for Michael Chandler, just, you know, maybe yell less.

I'd like that. But for Brian Ortega, it's please learn to defend yourself. It's hard to watch you get clubbed around in every fight. All right. Thank you, Stephen. Thank you, Stephen. Real quick. Real quick, this is for Terrence Leverett. Terrence, send me your super chat again.

You don't need a super chat, but just put it in the comments and... Oh, I see it, Casey. Do you want me to read it? Yeah, go ahead and read it. Okay. Terrence, just a comment, not a question. Rose looks to me like she doesn't want to hurt people no more, kind of like Roy McDowld when he found God.

So, yeah, Rose is pretty open about her media days. A lot of, you know, praise be, glory to God. And a lot of that in her post-fight interview as well. So I don't know. I don't know if we can draw that connection. There's a lot of pretty, you know, Christian fighters, a lot of religious fighters. And I think the majority of them are still doing a pretty good job of knocking people out and fooling them. So I get it.

I see where Terrence's head is at. I kind of understand. But I don't know if that has anything to do with her. not be able to finish Hebas or not be able to finish Menlofiel. I mean, those are both pretty tough fighters to put away, I think. So, yeah, I think it's just a level of competition she's fighting. I would even say that for Rory as well. I know Rory.

I think Rory admitted. I think he himself was that said that, like, it's not quite the same since he became, you know, more religious person. So, you know, that's like self-admitted. But I also think that Rory was just fighting guys that he frankly couldn't put away and couldn't beat at that stage his career. But it's a question to ask for sure. she just has one of the oddest careers in terms of like the breaks and then the movements and then you have weird splits and she just has one of the oddest careers and I don't have a good sense of where she's at it's a very difficult thing to kind of pin down and so I can understand looking for a reason to try to be like well is this what's happening like I completely understand that that inclination because it's kind of inexplainable like her entire career is kind of

very odd. It's just an odd career. So yeah, I get it. I don't think, I don't personally think it's that, but I don't know. She got a little bit,

we talked about this at the pre-fight Q&A. She's a little Randy Couture-ish, where like she's got such clear highs, but also just a ton of lows and weird, like lows that maybe I'm expecting or demonstrably bad lows that, it does make her very interesting. Terrence, I don't think this is a wrong view at all. I don't know that it's true, but I, like Rick said, can understand it.

I would just also say that she's not a finisher in general anyway, that the idea that she is supposed to be finishing people comes from the fact that on the biggest stages in her biggest moments, she knocked out Yowna and Wiley in the first round. Those are the two knockouts of her career. She does not have any other knockout. She's got some submissions, but it's against, you know, Angela Hill and stuff. It's not the same, not the same level of durability.

That was a long time ago, yeah. Yeah, long time ago, not the same. And she really isn't a not, she could be, feels like she has that in her, but that really isn't who she is. So I think the true answer probably is an amalgamation of a lot of different things, right? she's never been like the most committed fighter um and so yeah i i wouldn't be surprised if that was part of it but i doubt that's all of it you know yeah cool um and and her knockouts were kind of just one shot no hit and quit i mean it wasn't like she just had this overwhelming offense

you know it's just i'm going to kill you for this whole round it's just she just found a really good shot like early in a fight and then buried the nails yep all right thank you much I eat doughs. Feed Rose to Natty Ice. Rose looks a bit slow and pillow-handed at 125. Natalia is so much faster than most of these fighters when you watch the tape. Wish we had Mike Eck here because Mike Heck is the number one Natty Ice supporter in all of the land. But in the absence of him, A.K., please speak for your best friend in this hypothetical matchup.

I'm pretty sure he would hate this. Why? If this is just to get Addie Ice over and give her a name, sure. I do not like this matchup for Rose and Abjunis at the stage of her career. I know she's more experienced. I know she's been in bigger fights. I know she's fought better competition. But I think Natalia Silva is a legitimate future title contender.

She is an actual 125er. I would hate this for Rose right now. Again, for whatever the reason is that Rose is not looking like a killer at 125 so far, I don't think putting her in there with the time somebody's going to help that. So yeah, I have no interest in just feeding her as to Natty Ice's this question phrases it. Do people

hate Rose now or something? I don't know. Like, I understand hating any fighter, that's fine. If you have your personal reasons for hating a fighter, totally get it, no problem. But is there something about her performances or how she's handled her career that people don't like her? I'm not sure. Why do we want to see her use as a stepping stone? I think I think she got a lot of bad will from the Carla

fight. Yeah, big time. Yeah, that wasn't great. I legitimately think the Carla fight really shifted some narratives. What about Carla? I guess Carla also got. I guess they both did. I guess you're no one to say that. That fight was horrific, but it was not necessarily the fight itself.

It was the reaction to the fight. It was the excuses that came after that fight that people just are not into that. And then it continued into a real lackluster performance against Manafort. Like, just not, it's not been a good run recently from a quote unquote like PR perspective. It's not necessary like the performances as I kind of outlined I there hasn't been a real like a super impressive one in quite a bit But it's kind of been the the the tenor and tone after the performances that I think has turned people off I've noticed a real drastic shift in terms of her Standing with the fans she was she was a fan favorite and I think that has shifted drastically

I think Rose is just as I don't want to say grown up, but she's just a different person now than when we kind of met her. She's just, I mean, I met Rose at her. I talked, I threw this up on our Slack. I was like, I realized I forgot. I was at Rose's first fight, her first fight in Invicta. And that was the same card that Loris Sanko made her first, her pro debut on.

Like, so I've known Rose for a long time. And we talked a lot back then. And she, she's legitimately is a very different person now. And that's normal, you know, just to go from. 20, whatever. Just 20, yeah. And, you know, no, we, you know, Rose's told her stories about her past. And Rose kind of just, she was just this young lady getting into the sport.

And then off of a sudden, she became, you know, relatively, relatively very famous very quickly on the tough reality show, winning the, but losing the title, the winning the title. She's, she has lived a life that, honestly, no one else has lived on this earth. You know, she has a very unique life, you know. And so these are just, Rose is just a different person. And, you know, if you don't like it, you don't like it. But I'm pretty confident Rose, though, is happy who she is. And I don't think she really cares what kind of we think about that in that sense.

I'm sure she just wants to go out there and win and do the best she can. Nor should she. So it's just, yeah, she's just, she's not the same person that we saw in the tough house. And I think we kind of, the fans need to kind of accept that. her as a fighter and as her as just a human being. So does everybody think, no, I was going to say the one thing I'll push back on with that, Casey, is

I don't think it's that the fans are expecting the tough house because the tough house was like nine years ago. And that's just not the life cycle of MMA fans. I think that, you know, if we assume that most MMA fans are, the turnover seems to be like four or five, six years, right? In the last five years, Rose has one good performance.

It's the Zhang Wei-Lee fight, like the knockout Zhang Wally Lee. Other than that, you know, she lost to Jessica Androge, then she'd kind of be Jessica Androge, but not really the other one. And an amazing fight. That was an amazing fight, though,

the second fight too. It was a really good fight. Yeah, but when you win a fight where it feels like you lost, you never come out of that cleanly. Even though it's not her fault. But like that's, you just get some negative press there. And then I will also say this is judgmental of me, and that's okay.

I'm really confident that other people feel this way. I'm the best works when you're saying it, and then you go out and knock out Yuanianjahechik. Saying I'm the best a bunch and then having a tepid decision went over Mandahibas is a lot harder to tolerate that sort of thing, you know. And that's just sort of part and parcel. So if you've come into the sport in the last couple of years, yeah, the Y-Lei fight is awesome, but then everything since that has been mid, and you're just hearing stories about why people like Stubrow,

oh, stop on rows, but you didn't live that, so you're not going to like her in the same way. All right. I think one major difference with the, I'm the best stuff, too. So sorry, I might be lying. One major difference with I'm the best stuff is not only, you know, is it better when it's done ahead of a highlight real victory, also when it's in an arena, it felt awkward. in the apex, man.

Because in an arena, you can almost, I can almost see like, you know what? She is saying this to block out the noise and center herself. And the apex, it's just sounded like she was trying to block out like voices in her head or something. It came off so weird. And everything, she's doing the same thing. It's not that she's doing anything different. It's that the environment is different and the way it's shown in the broadcast is there. Like, it's so, it sounds so lonely.

It sounds like her saying. It just sounds so lonely when she's saying it. So I don't have any problem with that pre-fight mantra, But it is affected by the atmosphere for sure. Is everybody 100% sure this would be like feeding, feeding her to Natty Ice? Like, I don't think I feel that way yet. Like, I don't think so. I don't think it's that.

And I'm pretty high on Nat's nice. Yes. Yeah, I don't think that's how that goes. I don't think it's like, yeah, just knock her off. I'm not sure about that yet. And I'm high on Talia Silva, but yeah, I don't think that's. how that goes necessarily. Yeah, I think we're just really diminishing Amanda Hebes too.

Like, man, it was a good victory. He's a really good performance. It's a really good performance. It's a really good performance. I mean, yeah, it's just, it's just, Rose is weird. This is weird and how the fans perceive it. Weirdest, one of the weirdest careers I can, I can recall. Like, I don't, off the top, I can't think of a weirder one.

Just insanely weird career. The fact of it would call Thug Rose and like that, that idea of what Thug Rose is like, that's not who she is now. That's just, she's farmer Rose now. She's like, no, I love Jesus, Rose, which is great. That's cool. She picked your name. Yeah.

Casey, to your point, she chose the name. So that's what we're going. I'll also add that she did look slower in there. But she even noted that in her post fight, which I thought was good to see. Like she said, yeah, felt a little slow, got things to work on. So look, she's figuring 125 out. We'll see how she does, you know. All right.

Thank you much. I got a super chat here. Another one about Rose, I think. Giovanni Perez. Am I crazy for thinking Blanchfield should already be getting a title fight? Hope it's guaranteed after she beats another really tough opponent. You all know my thoughts on Aaron Blanchfield. She's the best woman's flyweight in the world.

She's probably the best woman's band away in the world if we're being real and the best women's fighter in the world. She certainly already deserves a title fight. It's not how things are going right now, which is unfortunate. it but they made Habib wait for five years when he was clearly the best lightweight Aaron Blanchfield will be fine. Yeah, she would have had it if it wasn't for the second, how the second Valentina Grasso fight played out, right? She would have won the whatever, the fight after that,

and then she would have just got a title fight. So, no, Giovanni, you are not crazy at all. The cards just kind of played out in a screwy way for her, unfortunately. And now it's just a wait because of, I mean, for a great reason, for filming of the ultimate fighter, but still unfair. All right. and because it is very late everywhere in the world everywhere right now. It's our last super chat and it's way off topic, but it's a super chat.

Oh, God. Weidenhoff. What is your take on that Connor's Roadhouse interview with him tweaking? Does Dana know he's not well? And maybe that's why they're not booking him. A.K. is just viscerally unhappy. So I'll say the same thing I said in the pre-fight Q&A when we got this. I just have less feelings than the internet did about this.

It's certainly not a good look by any means, but I also think that there are probably some pretty normal explanations for that interview. There are many other interviews that happened this last week that to me were much more like, oh, yeah, that's less than ideal. That one I'm willing to write that because of the manner and the proclivities we believe or some people have suggested Connor partakes in, that didn't look anything like that to me. That looked like a dude who maybe wasn't all the way there, but also he's been doing a lot, a lot of media, a lot of things this week and, you know, one tough interview. He's done a million

of them. They're not all going to be gold. But Rick, what did you think? Do you try to keep your job? But what did you think? I don't know the timing offhand, but that does not feel like a recent thing that feels earlier in the in the press that i do not believe that that interview happened um yeah that could have been a couple weeks ago easily i don't think that that's recent i don't think that that that's recent even though it is circulating now um so i will just say we've seen him more recently like he was just live in new york um to do that uh press thing and it did not look like that so yeah i wouldn't i wouldn't put too much stock into what we don't know what happened there but i wouldn't put too much stock into whatever it was because we've seen him since.

But yeah, that does not feel recent, even though it's circulating right now. Yeah, a lot of times these are embargoed interviews that they actually shoot sometimes months ago. So because these are entertainment PR junket type interviews that you're watching. So yeah. And I would also just say like I why this is just not something to be concerned about like if every interview was this and okay. but like, I don't know, I've been around problems that people have made the assertion and alluded to, like with friends and family. And it's like, that's not a problem. That's a one-time incident.

If every incident or a bunch of incidents are like that moving forward, yes, but I don't think we've gotten anywhere near a threshold where I'd be concerned about its long-term well-being. I think there's a big recent wave of like this like, is this person okay? can they fight situation? Like obviously the most notable and obvious one right now is Ryan Garcia, who seems to be, you know, at a certain point going off the rails and the focus of this attention. But this is seeming to happen a lot more as people are more public and more exposed and the internet has a stronger voice and the idea of can we determine the context for these things

kind of goes away. Like, as I said, like does anybody know when that interview occurred? that would be useful information for somebody to have, but nobody has looked into it or knows or cares. It just kind of gets spread with like look at Connor McGregor tweaking. So yeah, it seems part of a wave of this idea of like concern trolling almost to a certain degree. And like it doesn't feel like it's appropriate in this scenario. Like I think we're okay on the other side of this.

Yeah, I'll just say the clip was certainly odd. but I don't think you need to, you don't need to base your concerns on Conner's behavior on that clip. I think if you followed Conner's shenanigans over the past six years or more, then you have more than enough reason to criticize certain aspects of his lifestyle. This clip shouldn't make or make or change anyone's minds about like, oh man, Conner, has he really gone over the edge here? and it's like how many guys go to every fighting.com,

how many stories have you written about his stuff he's been up to? It's an amusing clip to look at. But yeah, it's, you guys, you guys. You know his deal. Connor McGregor flew to New York to throw a dolly at a bus and punched an old dude in a bar. That's more concerning. There are substantially more concerning actions in the past decade.

Again, this wasn't great, but. This is not this is better than him assaulting an unarmed old man in a bar. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And that's it, ladies and gentlemen. In less cases, something happened that I didn't know, but it's 2.30 a.m. on the East Coast. I didn't think we're going this long, but you hooligans just wanted to stay in chat about UCVegas 89.

That's what happens when people get bit. So people just, people just want to come on and talk about people getting bit. It's been a ride, fellas. But the ride continues next week. Atlantic City, baby. UFC Atlantic City, another women's flyway main event. We'll talk about that then. For now, that's Eric Jackman.

That's A.K. Lee, that's E. Casey Liden, Best Guns in the Business. I'm Jedman Shoe. This has been the MMA fighting UCVegis 89 post show. We will see y'all next time. Love y'all. Yes. How do you do that? How do you do it?

It's so defined. Oh, it does get balloons. Woo. This is the greatest time ever. All right. Bye. Bye. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.