MMA Fighting - UFC White House Post Show | Reaction to Justin Gaethje's Epic Upset Win, Alex Pereira Falling Short

Episode Date: June 15, 2026

Justin Gaethje did it. He actually did it. On Sunday night, Justin Gaethje closed the show at UFC White House in epic fashion, giving the American fans something to celebrate as he batter Ilia Topuria, claiming the undisputed lightweight title when Topuria's corner threw in the towel after the fourth round. It's the crown jewel in the career of the the most exciting fighter to ever step into a cage, and a performance that will be talked about for ages. Following UFC White House, MMA Fighting's Jed Meshew reacts to Gaethje's epic upset win over Topuria. Additionally, Jed discusses Alex Pereira's failed attempt to become a three-division champion, Ciryl Gane's best performance, Sean O'Malley's return to form, and much more from the rest of the historic action at the biggest event of the year. Follow Jed Meshew: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@JedKMeshew⁠⁠ Subscribe:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ http://goo.gl/dYpsgH⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Check out our full video catalog: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://goo.gl/u8VvLi⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Visit our playlists:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ http://goo.gl/eFhsvM⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Like MMAF on Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow on Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://goo.gl/nOATUI⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Read More: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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has come to a close. Those are the victory horns that you hear. And ladies and gentlemen, hello, my name is Jedmishu and internetafting.com, but you knew that if you were here. And you may notice a couple of things. There's no Mike Heck next to me. My Keck has had to exit the premises for the time being. So I am running a solo post show while we are concurrently running our post-fight presser. So all the fighters coming up to do that. You and I are just going to hang out and chat for a little bit about what we just witnessed

because as I mentioned, the horns they play and they play for Justin friggin Gachie. Shocking to me. And yet it's what happened. The old war horse gets it done. TK.O. win as a corner stoppage of Ilya toporea between the fourth. and fifth round almost got it a little bit before then um as toporia had to lobby to even fight the fourth round and then took a little bit more damage maybe busted a rib certainly got his face jacked up

but that's it man justin gaetie after all these many years is an undisputed ufc lightweight champion on the biggest stage of them all he promised to break iliette duporia to take his o And I'm still in disbelief. Like honestly, I can't. Vibes are through the roof. I wish Mike was here because as we watched it on the watch party, it, you know, I did not have high hopes for the main event. I thought it would be fun because a Justin Gaci fight is always fun.

But I thought DePuria was going to ultimately prove too young, too good. Gachi's last performance while a solid showing is Patty Pimblit did not appear that he had his fastball anymore. But man, he turned back the clock. He found it. Tuporia started. Gaji started pretty strong. Teporia came back.

Had a really big second round. And apparently just blew all his energy in that round. Because after that, he was gassed. They were both knackered in the third. But Gaci just dug deep, broke him down. Obviously, the best performance of Justin Gachie's career. He was jabbing. He didn't kick a bunch, but he was jabbing.

And then sort of did. what I think a lot of people said, you know, theoretically could be done, right? Like he, when Justin Gaei is trying to jab and, and do like a real game and not just be kind of fun, crazy Justin Gagy, he can be very effective. We saw him do that against Hafeel F's Eve, right? But I think everybody thought that eventually he'd get caught. And at points he did, right? That second round was pretty big for Tuporia. But he was able to sort of blend the two assets.

aspects of Justin Gichi. The more technical, measured, jab, right hand, find the moments, uppercut, left hook sort of Justin Gachy, mixed in some takedowns or this thread of some takedowns. And then the, all right, we're just swinging in the pocket, Gachi. Much will be made of this fight. We will talk about it on program after program. We'll talk about it here and with questions from y'all.

But my biggest takeaway from this is it's not even about the fight itself. right like it is about the story of the fight because just engage i mean you know justing gaitie said in the buildup that we were bigger underdogs 250 years ago for america true or false whatever uh his career he is the most exciting fighters ever lived i've been saying it for a while i feel unbelievably confident in that statement you can argue others but he is at the barest of minimums in the conversation. But that's, he didn't get over the hump to an undisputed title. He's a two-time interim champion.

The first person to do that, he was joined earlier in this evening by Cyril Ghan, which we'll talk about shortly. But first person to be a two-time interim champion had accomplished everything you really can in the sport other than an undisputed title and happened to exist at a time when some all-time greats were there. And at 38, you think it's probably not going to be. going to happen for him, especially as Toporia is so young and looks to be so ascending. And then he did it. He backed up everything he said. And some of you are probably thinking I'm

coming here to gloat about Ilya to be very negative on Toporia, not Toporia of the fighter, but the personality. I'm not, because how can you? How can you look at that fight and say something negative about Toporia? Now you can critique the performance or what we can take away and learn from him. But how can you look at that and be like, Leoporio is overrated? It's like, no, man, Leutepore is really good. Maybe the size was an issue tonight. It didn't prove to be an issue against somebody like Charles Olavera, who is very, very good, obviously, extremely good.

An all-time grade himself as a win over Gagee, but stylistically, I think, is just a better matchup for Toporia in that has never been that durable. He will eat a shot and then, I mean, the peak of his career was getting dropped and then people being too afraid to go into his guard that he would be allowed to recover. Gagy has always been super durable. Now, you can hit him and you can hurt him

and you can wear him down to the body. And for a lot of this fight, it looked like that was Tuporius' plan. But he's a war horse, and he's a dog. And he was at his Justin Gagy best tonight. It is, it's not, going to be the biggest upset in UFC history, right? It's not that. But this is absolutely for me, I'd love to hear where you guys think about this, but for me, this is in that Michael Bisping versus Luke Rockhold tier of, you know, it's not the number one, but man, it's one we will talk about

because he was like a four or one, five to one underdog, right? Like, there's no reason for him to win this fight other than he's just a freaking battler. And to do this. And to do this, that at this stage, like this is a genuine Disney movie. To do that at this stage of your career, when most people think, like it is that Biss being, oh, he's past, he's probably not going to get it, still a Hall of Fame or great career. Now

he has the last piece, the missing piece to a total career. He was always a Hall of Famer. This is probably going to be a fight of the year. It is the number one fight of the year right now. Probably will hold up. He is in the driver's seat for fighter of the year right now.

and just a man an all-timer like an absolute all-timer performance and one that I did not see coming at all and Justin Gates you one of my favorite fighters to watch so just transparently like that is awesome like I was man that rocked so I did not get to hear a lot of the post fight I've seen some things on social

but our watch party set up we don't have great audio So I don't know, but man, for Justin Gachie couldn't be a bigger moment. Like when the Justin Gichi movie happens, this is the end. Like this is, and then there'll be the cut screen at Black that's like, Gachy went on to defend his belt against Starm and Zrukian and Luz, or whatever it happens. This is unbelievable, but absolutely unbelievable and just incredible. I cannot say enough good things about Justin Gagee. And not to step on what I'm sure Luke Thomas is saying or will be saying when he does his post-show.

But we've talked about it. He and I have talked about it on air, off-air. He talks about it a lot. This generation of lightweights, it's special, man. It's so, so special. Dustin Porrier, Ilya, or not Elliot to Porier, sorry, Dustin Porier, Justin Gaichie, Charles Olivaara. Habib's not here anymore, but like in that same ilk.

Habib's retirement sort of let this blossom maybe in a way that it wouldn't have because all of these guys got to get their shine a little bit more. Because I think if Habib was still around, you just sort of mowed everybody down and the way Islam sort of has continued that or continued that on. But like, it's special. You don't get a crop of fighters like this who there's, like Justin Gaichie should not have in this fight. He just shouldn't, at this stage of a fighter's career against this kind of opponent, it's not what's supposed to happen. And he finds, like, he finds a way he is the

greatest underdog in UFC history. This is like his 11th win of 14 or something that's an underdog. Absolutely outrageous. He is special, special guy. And for a career as noteworthy as his, right, as important, as significant as his, for this. like to at this stage get the crown and jewel, the biggest piece is remarkable. So shout out to Justin Gachie. That was sick. He did everything he said and he looks like such a genius now.

Like, again, I'm not here to trash Deporia. We're going to talk about him in just a moment. But Gaci all week was like, he couldn't be rattled. And he said it in his post fight. He's like, look, we approached this differently. I told myself I was going to lose. I convinced myself, I'm going to get embarrassed. And so I came out here with nothing to lose.

And he fought like that, man. Like he battled through adversity. He got hurt. I thought tactically and technically, maybe not technically, but tactically among the best I've ever seen him. They clearly had a good plan for a lot of it. And it's a great melding of Trevor Whitman and the team were prepared for specific stuff. And then the just-engachiness of it all took over when things got out of pocket, when things got out of plan. I cannot say enough good things about this, man.

Absolutely unreal performance. So thanks for, thanks for just being here to let me vent that, frankly. As far as Tuporia goes, I take nothing but positives away from this. I have questions about the future of Tuporia, not that it's in jeopardy. I want to be super clear about that,

but he is, this first loss, that's always, it's always interesting to see how a fighter reacts to a first loss. This is a blue, loss. His face was super jacked up at the end of the third round. They lobbied to get him to fight the fourth. He did. I believe he broke his orbital in the fourth. I'm not a medical doctor. I wasn't there, but it sure looked like he sustained even more significant damage. Also look like he broke a couple of ribs from that knee at the end of the fourth round from Geichie. That's why his corner called it. And I want to nip. I haven't seen too much of this,

but just in case, that is a good corner stoppage. That man was was brutalized, he was tired. Maybe a miracle, like, maybe he gets it together, but you protect your guy. And it's not a coincidence that we get corner stoppages more often when a family member is in the corner. But I think it's totally justifiable corner stoppage. And like I said, I have been among the biggest detractors of Ilya to Poria, not the fighter, but the person. And I don't have anything bad to say about him here, you know, like now it's not the time to be like, oh, shouldn't have been talking all that ish.

Like, that man's a warrior. He, I don't think anybody ever thought that he was a week or like breakable. But that man, he battled. And that fight was rugged in a way we've just really never seen him have to do before. I thought he looked great before gassing. He gassed super hard in the second round. I would love in a week or two to get some more insight to see if, yeah, actually the heat and the humidity was something I wasn't prepared for.

If he just got out over his skis because he was swinging, he was swinging for the fences in the second round. And if he's just like, yeah, I just punched myself out. I thought I could get him out of there and I couldn't. You know, that has happened. Famously Connor McGregor-Grenad-Diaz, right? Like that could totally be the case. I would love to hear a little bit more insight.

But before that, I thought, you know, he had a tougher first round before he started to get the ball rolling in his direction. and he's that dude's still hell on wheels Justin Gaichi's just a freaking dog and the fact that like he ate my biggest question for him was like if Gachey does crack him can he eat it? Because like he doesn't have a bulletproof chanen and Gachi hits really hard

but he ate a ton of big shots from Gai Chi and he never quit you can if you're taking umbrage with him okay but I just that just doesn't feel like the fight to me where it's like yeah man now we got to really lay it on. It's like, nah, he lost. Everybody in the sport loses. It's just, it is what it is.

It, it, sometimes you don't have your best stuff and a guy brings his absolute best of the game. And you got to tip your cap to him. He's going to get a fight of the year, pretty sure. It is just, man, he gassed. He absolutely gassed, no doubt about it. but that again, I don't know if that's tactically. Maybe he did. Maybe he comes out and he's like, yeah, I overlooked Justin Gage.

I didn't train it hard. And okay, this is a learning experience for him. Either way, I think he will come back stronger. But it is always interesting to see how a guy who has never lost a fight before can rebound. And especially, like I said, a brutal fight. Like this is the most beat up. He's probably ever been in his whole life. He's going to be out for a very long time.

I know a bunch of fans right now. we're all too high about it, a bunch of people are probably going to be very sad that we have ultimately lost the Tuporia-Machachev fight. I kind of think it's okay, you know? I was always way less excited about that than others because I wanted to see a fight like this. I wanted to see Tuporia fight a couple of dudes up a weight class and not just one because you never know what a different look gives, and we saw it.

But he is 28 years old. He's one of the most talented fighters in the world. Even after this loss, he's still one of the very best fights. in the world. So he will get better. He will come back. And we will get to see where he goes from here. Again, I take, take nothing from him. Take nothing from him on this. Like, that was just, you know, people will have critiques and some of them will be fair. But after a fight like that, how do you do anything but tip your cap to both guys and be like, yeah, man.

That rocked. So that's our main event. Justin Gage, he pulls off the remarkable thing. the co-main event, slightly, slightly less remarkable, but still awesome. Like, still super fun. Cyril Gahn becomes the second two-time interim champion in UFC history, knocking out Alex Pereira, I mean, TKO, I guess, not knocked out, T-KOing Alex Pereira in the second round, which surprised me.

I thought Gond could win. This was a coin flip fight to me, but Gond looked amazing. You know, Justin Gates is going to get a performance of the night. for sure deserves it, but Zero gone was the in a very competitive fight looked unreal. Pereira did not look

too small. I think there are questions whether Poetan was maybe too big, right, that he put on too much, but that just looked like my question heading into this fight was how does this end up playing out? Because I've never seen gone lose on the feet, but Pereira

can chip away his legs take the momentum, the mobility from him. He's He's more dangerous in moments, but Gan just looked like the best version of himself. And Cyril Gan loses fights when you tackle him. That's basically the fights he's lost. He gets tackled. But Poetan was never going to.

And so that did make him an interestingly tough style matchup for Pereira. And we saw that almost immediately. I thought Pereira had a very good opening couple of minutes. He came forward. He was cutting the cage. He was throwing with much more volume than we usually see from him early. but Ghan ate a couple of shots He's got a very good chin

He's able to start to get his rhythm going Chipping away He was He was throwing power shots Much more than he normally does early And the second round I thought gone had really taken the momentum And then

He drops him Poetan Poeton steps in And as he's stepping in Gone hits this stepping jab And it just comes right across the chin Sits Poetton down and I thought it was over immediately.

I thought, I thought God was, because gone hopped on him and started banging, I thought that was going to be it. I think Herb Dean was a referee. He let it go on. Plenty of people are complaining about back of the head shots. That may be true. In the replays we saw while we were doing the show,

nothing looked egregious to me. I am not saying that it didn't happen. It's entirely possible what happened. What I will say is, as I, in real time, 100% I didn't see anything like that. I thought all of his elbows were coming across. And it's not officially how it is,

but it's how it's officiated. And I think if everybody's being honest, it's a fair way to officiate it. If you were not actively trying to hit the back of the head and incidental back of the head shots land during a situation like that, they just allow it because a fighter's head's moving and you're flurrying.

I think anything other than intentionally like, I'm going to put in the base of your spine, willing to give a lot of leeway to. Again, super incredible credit given to Poetan, who managed to keep fighting long after I thought he was cooked. Probably ended up costing him a couple extra punches. But it's a championship fight. You're probably okay with that,

especially for a historic fight like that. And yeah, I mean, this sets up the rematch for Gone and Aspinall. Certainly the outcome of the UFC probably was the least interested in it. Certainly, I would assume the fans were. But Cyril Gahn, when he gets the fight he wants, is a huge, huge problem. So that's your co-main event. Poiton was pretty cagey about what comes next. They asked him, he said, I'm going to do like I did when I lost a middle weight.

I'm going to go back, talk to the team and figure out what comes next. I'd like to see him stay at heavyweight. If he wants to go back down, Carlos Olberg eventually would be good. I do think light heavyweight is his best division, but he's 39. I don't know how much long he's got left. Seeing him have some fun fights in a different weight class might be interesting. So we'll see. Yeah, I'm incredibly impressed with Gahn.

Like H.I. I thought he was the best performance of his career. Again, I think that is a stylistically better fight for him than others, but pretty solid. Support for this show comes from Odu. Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? Introducing Odu. It's the only business software you'll ever need.

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So the first fight in UFC, fight card in UFC history to have all stoppages. It was only seven, as opposed to the normal like 11, 14, whatever. But all stoppages, Sean O'Malley gets one almost out of nowhere. And what was a mostly tepid and kind of the worst version of the fight that we thought could have. happen between Sean O'Malley and Zahabi.

O'Malley ends up finding the knockout in the second round, late in the second round, like fourth, third or fourth minute. He, I won't see he looked amazing for most of that fight. He looked kind of, he was not willing to

commit to too much. Zahavi was simply not doing anything for long stretches of the fight. And so Sean was winning, but he wasn't dunking on him like we saw him do against Chito Vera in their rematch for instance. But ultimately, Zobby gets a little out over his skis. O'Malley cracks him.

And then I think it's an early stoppage. It's not an egregiously early stoppage from Jason Herzog. But he cracked him, followed up with another big shot. Zobby dropped. Zobby was very, very, very likely to get finished in moments. Again, I'd like to have seen it. But Sean also did that thing where he kind of just like walk off. And there you go, man.

He sold it. The theatrics of his walkoff sold it. And it's okay. Nothing wrong about that. Again, I think he was going to win that fight. More definitively shortly thereafter. For Zahabi, I thought he had a great fight week. This was always a very tough matchup for him, and it ended up playing out that way.

You know, he's not going to make a title run, but he's in the UFC game now. He gets merch. I think he's pretty okay with it, and he'll still get to have sort of top ten fights. For O'Malley, he called up Piotr. on afterwards. I think that probably happens, but not next. I do think they're going to do Jan

Davaljevili. Seems like that's playing. Sean maybe tries to wait, but Umar just got booked against Song. If Umar can definitively beat Song, maybe they decide to do that, but Sean is very much in the mix. So big effort for him. Josh Hokit finishes Derek Lewis

in the second round. Primarily a striking contest, Hokit did score take down in the first round. and use a lot of ground and pound. But in the second round, Derek Lewis, what can you say, man? He, I think he's probably past it at this point. He just didn't have anything to offer, and he hasn't looked very good lately.

But here's the thing about Hokit. His post fight was very Josh Hokkaity. I have genuine concerns about Josh Hokit's long-term viability at heavyweight against the very, very top guys, right? like the top five, he is extremely small and he does not pack a ton of power. He's not without pop, but he does not have the same. He is not bringing the same power to bear that everyone else is in this weight class. And that works when you are quick and athletic and you're fighting the rest of this division,

which is garbage, but against the best guys, I got real questions. But he's very clearly a talented fighter. You cannot take that away from him, right? I thought tactically he was doing some interesting things in this fight. Didn't really need to. It's Derek Lewis at this stage of his career. But he's a good fighter, man. And you can dislike him.

Not a huge fan. I think I'm higher on him than others. But he's a very, very talented fighter. And maybe not very, very, but he's a talented fighter in this weight class. So not much to say about that. We all knew that was going to happen more than likely. If Derek didn't land a big shot early, it was there curtains. And Derek maybe landed like four punches the entire fight.

that might be high. Maricio Ruffy similarly puts Michael Chandler to the sword. Through a bunch of spinning wheel kicks, Chandler kept blocking them and still getting hurt anyway. Michael Chandler probably should retire, but even if not, he has looked increasingly worse over his last several fights. If he's going to still be doing this, it should be age-appropriate matchmaking, just not what ended up happening here.

Still a weird fight because, I mean, I know that they like Ruf. but on the White House car didn't totally make sense, but I don't know what to do with him. He goes, we see. He's obviously a good lightweight, but he's coming off to BSD loss. We got some other things going there. But solid win, big performance.

Bo Nicol gets it done against Kyle Dawkins in the second penultimate fight we'll talk about the sophomore fight of the evening. Scored a take down early, got up, and then just kind of unclear to me if the front kick hurt Kyle or that just landed and then it was the jumping right hand that sort of did it but ends up I think it was a one two if memory serves and just put dockis down it's not too much to say bo-neckel seems to have rebounded from the loss to rdr quite well but

again big favorite a matchup that i was just like he's much more athletic i'll probably win and he won by being much more athletic so i don't know what to take from this but big performance on a big stage good for bow nickel and then the opening fight of the evening Diego lopez uh knocks out steve garcia and somewhat of a classic Diego lopez fight in that steve garcia i thought was winning this fight early Lopez could not figure out the range could not really just figure out the jab like covering the distance in an open space matchup as garcia jabbed and then stayed out put the left hand on him and then midway through the second round uh Diego was just like F it. I'm going to force the issue.

And as soon as he started forcing the issue, he landed much more. And he eventually caught Steve Garcia, clipped him, put him down. Devastating loss for Steve Garcia who's never going to fight for a title at this point. But it still be a fun dude at Featherweight. Diego, I mean, given what Gachie did in the main event, right? And like that everybody did things. Diego, man, he keeps doing the thing. He weighed in twice for this fight card.

Big. there is, if you haven't seen it, check social, there's a picture of him standing on top of the cage with the White House that, I won't share too many of my personal feelings on the White House part of this, but that picture uneniable bangs. And then he goes to the fan fest after, and people give him a raucous thing. He says, I'm trying to go up to lightweight because I know I'm not getting a featherweight shot.

Diego, he continues to approach fighting the correct way in 2026 to be as big a star as possible. So an unbelievable effort from him. And that's the card, man. Some other stuff happened. Tyson Fury, there was a weird situation where he clearly was supposed to announce that he had either signed to Zufa boxing or that the Anthony Joshua fight was happening with Zufa boxing and then nothing ended up happening there.

The production was very unique, very different sorts of different walkout. for different guys coming from different places. White House was in full effect. Everybody was there, Donald Trump, everybody was there. Be curious to see how y'all felt about that. I will say, from my perspective, I kind of forgot about the White House part of it as the fights were going,

and then you would be brought back to it as like something specific happened. But it felt a lot to me, just like a generic fight car, like a good one. But like, I was able to get lost in the action. as opposed to be like thing. We all live. My cat cannot join us.

He had a family thing. His wife and son were flying in from Boston today. They were supposed to fly in several, you know, earlier in the day. But the weather delayed flights. So he had to go to the airport to pick them up because that's just what had to happen. So he got me. That is the full White House breakdown.

And in lieu of me continuing to totally talk unabated, while not really look into chat that much because it's hard to do both. I'm going to go to you guys for questions. We won't stay here forever because we've got other things going, but I will stay as long as the questions are good and we're having a good vibe because

the card is awesome, man. It's Sunday. The fact that so many of you are here with me is awesome. I know there are other choices you could be watching. I know it is 2 a.m. on Sunday on the East Coast, and most people have to wake up and go to work. but man, I was a hell of a show.

So it's worth it. And I will stay and we can talk forever. Fire your questions in. Super Chats get priority, of course. This one just because I've seen this a lot from Mirage, Jed, could that be a career under Frilia? I don't think so because he's so young. But what I will say is

Ilya is the kind of guy that I am the most concerned about taking a loss, right? Because so much of his game is confidence. so much of, not even his game, but like his aura, his confidence to take a loss like that and not even like a tremaya of loss. It's like, oh, I can convince myself I won. He's got to wear that. And perhaps, you know, he has good people around him in general. So perhaps he takes this on the chin and it's like, look, I learned a lesson. I'll get back. But he has been very upfront about being saying this is not a long term career for him. He's going to get in, get paid, get out.

And a loss like that maybe makes you reevaluate some things. I don't think it's the end, but I am fascinated to see how he responds because guys with that much ego and confidence, a loss like that can shake him. And if the confidence gets shaken, does the rest of his game drop off a little bit? Do people just now be like, oh, I can losing the ore? Does that make other people feel more confident in beating him? But he's still super young and incredibly talented. I think he will be back.

I strongly suspect he'll end up winning a belt again. But it's a good question. Got a bunch of supers that I want to get to here. First up, Slito, 27-month member, thanks, man. Jed, how do you think UFC feels about the Gathe Wend? I think that they are,

did not anticipate this coming, but I think that they're pretty okay with it. Like Tuporia win sets up other things for them, but the Gatjian actually solves a couple of problems. I think the UFC was broadly pushing towards the Toporia-Machachev fight. But that fight, as much as people wanted it, I think that fight won, it does feel like maybe we could, styles do make fights, but I think more people would be like, yeah, Seporia probably just would be too small for his Lomachev. Not impossible, but it'd probably be too small for as a Mockachev.

And now it's like, all right, Tuporia can stick around at lightweight, which is a division that's still in transition. Be awesome. We can have more things. And Islam, there's so many welterweight contenders. So it solves that. And getting just engaged you with this iconic win in this scenario, the Americanness of it all, I think they're okay with that. I think they're never going to be upset that the most exciting fighter alive has an undisputed championship belt on him. So this was a no lose situation for the UFC. But I don't know if this was a win, but I don't think they've lost at all with this. And so I think they are totally fine with what happened here. From Chris LeClair,

how about GSP versus Gagy at 155 pounds? Sounds awesome. I mean, I would watch it, but I do not believe that that is likely to play. But George St. Pierre wasn't a tenant. Stay with Amos a hobby. Yeah, I think we're going to be getting Armin Surukin.

Check tomorrow, Mike Heck. A.K.A. Lee, they will do on to the next one. They're the best for this, but I do strongly anticipate Armand's going to get it, but it's not 100%. Max beats Connor. Armin gets hurt doing too many R.A.Fs or whatever. Charles is right there. We'll see.

I'm interested to see if Gachie fights again this year, because if he took the rest of the year off, I don't think a soul would blame him. But we'll see. Armin's happy the way he made, allegedly made $5 million on the Justin Gagey pets so he'll be okay anyway um from ace boogie $20 a stand man thank you so many angles you can take from that main event shocker here's mine jett i know you don't like immediate rematches but if i'm justin that's what i go for he's a chance

of life-changing money rematch trilogy he'd be set uh no i don't i don't want that at all um I don't, why would Ilya deserve an immediate rematch, you know? Gagee also acknowledged, too, that Tuporia hurt him. He won that fight, no question. He obviously won it. But, like, an immediate rematch is not guaranteed to go the same way, and maybe it's a trilogy.

Like, if Tuporia wins, maybe it's a trilogy, but, you know, I, that would be, I think that would be bad, right? Like, Justin Gage can have fun fights with anybody, and Ilya has done a lot in this sport, already very short career that has been incredibly successful but he has one win he has one or like technically two wins in this weight class and one of them is jai herbert you know like he and also i don't think depori is fighting this year man not after that i think at earliest he's fighting

next year if gaitchie does fight this year timelines don't work like if they do it i will never say no to any justin gaitchie fight but that would not be the one that i am hoping for personally uh from brian whitkowski do you think ilia's personal problems hurt his performance or is it just what justin did right um five dollars from brian thank you brian um i don't think the personal problems played that much into it i would i wouldn't say it's like zero because you know anything can happen he probably hasn't had the best year of training it as he normally would because of what's going on i think i think i think there's a world where he did underestimate Gaichi and that came. We won't know until he speaks and says to it. And even then you take that with a grain of salt. But I think there's

possibility of that being the case. Whether or not that happened, I do, I think that he was clearly unprepared for something tonight. And a lot of that is Justin Geh. Some of that's going to be on him, right? I think to me, watching it, I don't want to watch this fight

5,000 times. It's very obvious that he thought he could get Justin Gehie out of there. much easier than he did. And he didn't come out barnstorming in the first three minutes like he sort of promised the fight week. But in the second round, once he started going, he was throwing as hard as he is physically capable of throwing. And it worked.

And he almost did get Gaci out of there. Gatio was severely hurt to the body. But he gets that takedown. And at the end of the second round, you can go watch our watch party. I was like, he's gassed because he wasn't doing anything on top. He had punched himself out. And so whether that's he punched himself out because the, you know, he was not fighting inside a cool arena, but outdoor humid location, whether he punched himself out because he took, he didn't take his training all the way seriously. Whether he just punched himself out because he has never not been able to put a dude down when he swung like that, right?

Like every we all have this experience. You don't know your limitations until you meet them. And for his career, he has punched dudes in the face and they have died. Iron Chin Max Holloway died. And Justin Gachie, he kept hitting him and Gachi got hurt, but Gachi didn't go down. And I certainly think size is a major factor in that. But there could be a number of things. I put the credit more to Gachi with some.

Yeah, Teprio probably, he probably can look at this and take lessons, realize he made a mistake one way or the other. But Justin, you know, Justin Gitchie made him make those mistakes. he came in prepared for this sort of fight. And it is a beautiful performance from him. From Andrew on this topic, he normally fights patiently. He was forcing the KO.

This is true and not true. Thank you, Andrew, for your comment. So yes, he does normally fight patiently until he doesn't, right? Like, he fought patiently against Volk until he saw the opportunity and then he went and he pushed for it. Same thing against Max, right? Like, and some of that is when he feels a fight starting to slip away from him. And I talked about this maybe on MK, but maybe it wasn't on MK.

Maybe it was on our preview show, one of the two, or both. When he feels a fight starting to go in the wrong direction, that's when he forces the issue, right? Like, he will be like, oh, okay, well, I'm losing, I'm getting jabbed, I'm getting kicked. I'll go boom. I go boom. And that has been such an effective strategy for him because when he goes boom, the guys fall down. And so, okay, yeah, remember,

I think people misremember. He was losing to Max. He was having a tough time with Volk. And then he was like, I go boom. And it felt like this fight where that first round, he felt it slipping away. He's like, okay, my response is go harder. and it kind of looked like that was going to work again,

but Gachie's a war horse man. He was definitely much bigger. And I thought I really looked bigger than he normally does. Like I thought he had put on some weight for lightweight, some muscle. But Gaichi was obviously much bigger. And I said in the preview, I don't think Gage is going to win, but there is a substantive difference between him and Charles Oliver.

And that Charles Oliver is just not the level of durable Gai Chi is. people can finish gaichi but you usually tap him to finish him or you wear him down because this is a guy who's Dustin porre is a monstrous one punch hitter and gaichi just got battered by him for a long time before we finally went down eddie alvarez got pop in his hands like this is a dude who can take a shot and be hurt and battle and i think when ilia tried went to his bread and butter of oh the jab is is working me over I'll go harder. He kept going harder, and he kept going harder, and Justin just couldn't quite get him out of there,

and then suddenly he didn't have anywhere to go. So I think he forced the issue, but that's not different than how he fights. I think this is just the time it didn't work out for him because of the style. From our buddy Spencer, Rudiminer, $10. Thank you, Spencer. The 2006 Chevrolete Equinox awarded the most dependable compact SUV in the U.S.

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Score the FIFA World Cup 2026. $1. Coin today. Look forward in your change. Ethical issues aside, I have to say I love that whole week.

UFC production was amazing. I also thought they did a great job of making the event feel more pro-America than pro-Donald. Agree, Jedi? 100% on that last part. We don't have to dive into the deep quandary of political opinions here.

I thought that this was very, very likely to be a much, were Donald-centric focused, or not Donald, a Donald Trump-centered event because it's on his birthday. He is the reason it's happening. And they have such a together relationship that I thought that he would just be front-centered. He was absolutely front-in-center. He's the president of the United States at a fight card on the White House lawn.

But they did make a real effort to, you know, do presidential things. And they put Obama on the screen, which I did not. think would happen at one point. You know, they, they did do their best to fulfill the like, this is about the celebration of America thing. Then it was anything specific. We don't have to dive into whether that makes this not political because that obviously it's still an incredibly political event.

But, you know, if you wanted to approach this event, if you, and plenty of people did, and I don't think this is a wrong choice, but if you, it's a choice to be like, yeah, I don't want to think about the other parts of this. I just want to enjoy fights and, you know, celebrate America. I think you could do that without having to, you know, think too hard. Or even if your political persuasions are left-leaning, I don't think watching it was necessarily like, I can't palate this. So as far as the overall production, like I mentioned earlier,

I was surprised at how quickly I acclimated to the White House part of it. And it just didn't, it was just like, oh, they're doing things. and it stopped being so unique very, very quickly for me. I don't know if everybody had that experience, but it is just sort of how I interacted with it. I thought that their production was good. I do not mistake me. I didn't, nothing jumped out at me that was like,

outside of just it is a difficult thing to produce a unique event like that, nothing blew my hair back and it was like, oh man, like that's, I never seen that. That's so cool. Just like, yeah, they pulled this off very, very capably, given the parameters at play. So, yeah, pretty solid effort. Stevie Husker, baby, member for 40 months, Stevie, that's insane. I thank Vegas for severely underestimating Justin.

Monster underdog, man. Monster underdog, Armand Sarucan thanks him more than anyone. Scott McCraed, a good buddy. Remember, 43 months, the highlight baby, he did it. Gore Gagee. He did. He absolutely did, boys. This is the thing that I think was very interesting. The weather, I think the weather was pretty tough in that it was a, it ultimately ended up not affecting the fights, which is the most important thing. But I do think that delay, I am, one of the things I'm looking for coming out of this is how that delay is going to affect other parts of it.

because again this is not a saturday night it's a sunday my friends who were the the friends i had who were marginally interested in this outside of being mama fans they got work in the morning they did not stay up to one to watch justin gage you do work and it maybe still would have gone this long anyway but with the rain delay i wonder how many people potential viewers they lost because it's 8 p.m fights aren't starting by 9 p.m you watch a couple and it's like all right i'm going to bed i'll see what happened in the morning, which is a thing that maybe still happens on Saturday, but happens way less with people having to work tomorrow. So, very, very interested to see if we get, what numbers we get if we can consider that real or not. From RSTD, live music's

way better than can tracks. So that is the one thing of the production that, you know, there were some specific instances where the biggest one to me is Fat Pat and Topstrop, where it's like, it's such a known connected walkout that getting that, getting that, with an orchestra instead of fat pat was like a little weird not bad but uh the live band playing stuff that was genuinely pretty cool um there were some flourishes here they were great and a thing that was awesome i assume this is the most heavily attended ufc event of all time with all the people that were in the fan zone every time they would do the cutout shot to that i was like man that is that's a billion people there watch this so um

there's no way to look at this as anything other than a win on fight night for the UFC. You know, pluses or minuses. Some things maybe could have been better, but it was really, they did a lot of things that were very, very strong there. Also from Spencer, Spenser, man, thank you. Judd, incredible from Justin Gates. You don't know if someone won in their third trial like that before. Him and Sean winning makes you rethink what's possible at the highest level of MMA.

sad for Alex, but gone Tom will be big. So, I mean, I think of the outcomes that the UFC may be hoped, that's obviously the one they didn't want. I don't think it's the worst thing in the world,

but they clearly would have preferred Pereira to win that one. Even with gone winning in that fashion, Tom rematch is certainly big, but Tom might be hard to do business with right now, so we'll see how that ends up shaking out. But, yeah, as far as, I mean, Gae, insane.

Sean, I still didn't think Sean won, but insane that he did it. It is, it's been a real weird year. A lot of bad cards to start. We're starting to get into the thick of some stuff. And some of these are the biggest, like things that could happen this year.

So, absolutely nuts. Let me get a couple more. Old Greg. Jed ultimately did the event live up to the hype? I don't know. Y'all have to tell me, quite frankly, because I feel this whole week I felt very strange about this card.

My person, like, it passed the mom test, but not in positive ways. Obviously for an MMA fan base, I think there was some divide because it is such, like, you don't have to like the statement, it is a political event, something happening on the white. White House lawn is a political event by actual definition and an event to celebrate a birth that like the birth of a nation is a political thing.

And given the divide we're at in the country, people felt ways about this. People felt some type of way about this in a way I've never seen for an MMA card, even amongst the MMA fan base. And so what hype it had is hard to live up to. If you don't care about the politics of it or if you are pro, that you know this administration i can only assume that this was five-star gangbusters full tilt because the action did deliver and the production was good right like the production was very good so if if that's your political persuasion i think you'd love this if you are the other side

i have no idea again if you were if you were in the middle and just like i don't really care i'm trying to block out the politics and focus on you know the pomp and the uniqueness and the fights, you also probably like this a lot, right? Like, it was objectively good in those regards. If you were the other side, I don't know. You guys will have to tell me if you're out there because maybe you can, maybe you look at this and like, that was really cool, but I didn't like all the other. I don't know.

So I would also be really interested in a non-American perspective. This is obviously a card for Americans. I know that there are non-Americans all in this card, but it's a card to celebrate the, you know, the 250th anniversary of America. If you're Australian and don't give a shit about the 250th anniversary of America, I wonder if that was cool, if it was weird, how?

So hard for me to know, I think it's varied. I would say probably for most people who tuned in, it did live up, but I could totally be wrong on that count too. Was Movesar or Armin, the biggest winners today? I mean, I think Movesar wasn't the biggest winner today

because they weren't going to give Diego Lopez another shot. So he's sort of, that didn't really change much. Armin's probably the biggest winner because I do think it's going to be Armand Gehchi next. And he's certainly the biggest winner if he did win $5 million, betting on Justin Keachie. But, I mean, Cyril Ghan's a very big winner, beating out for his big.

we're all winners for not having to debate whether Poetan is the goat because he won an interim belt over Cheryl gone. I mean, everybody who won was a big winner, but Armand's probably the biggest winner who didn't fight tonight. That's certainly true. But the big winner tonight is Justin Gage unequivocally. The man, his career will be viewed differently because of this. And his career was always going to be viewed very affectionately

because he is so exciting and beloved. but there's a like there's a tangible difference in where you where you meet out historically like I would have put Justin Gagee above Dustin Pore in historical lightweights anyway, right? It's on question now that nobody can all there is not a good argument that Dustin Pore is

a more historically significant or better lightweight than Justin Gagy. It does not exist because he did a thing that Dustin never did. The most important thing you can do in a weight class. He won a very important thing. valid undisputed belt. Now, there can be a little bit of an asterisk here. He, he has lost to several dudes in the top of this weight class and he didn't beat his Lamakov, but he won, he won a

belt man. So that's, that's insane. Shout out Juicy Jake, 10 gifted subs, baby. We love that. Enjoy the emotes, guys. Um, mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean, this is just the thing. Gachie checked the last box. There's nothing else for him to do in his career. Like, if you are playing the UFC video game and it's what are your career highlights? Yeah, like put title defenses down. But even if he doesn't do that, he's done it all. And Mike asked me in the middle of the thing who's like right after Gates, you, I was like, where does he rank historically?

And I don't know. I'm going to have to think about it. Like historically lightweight, it's not all the time. It's the most exciting fighter of all time. He's the greatest underdog of all time. Those are locked up. Where does he rank in lightweights? Obviously behind Habib, obviously behind Islam, obviously behind BJPin.

I think those three I feel extremely confident putting above Justin G as the all-time lightweights. I'll probably put him behind Charles Oliver as well, who I think is number four. But I think I think people really forget about lightweight is it's such a long history and good division. Benson-Henderson career is, I promise you better than you remember it being. Like, I promise you Benson-Indersen's career is way better than you think it is. and so there are a lot of guys in that mix

but like Tony Ferguson had a great run and won an interim belt Justin Gathe is better than Tony Ferguson is no question about it now he may have just cracked himself into the top five lightweights of all time with that which is not the best way class in a sport that's not a small feat to achieve

um juicy jade you give 10 more memberships if you didn't um shout out to you any Anyway, but if you did, if you have 20 memberships, freaking legend, bro. And then Juicy Jake with a $20 spot, man, Jake, thank you. It's just unreal.

Was not in the chat tonight and had the boys over. U Sesee's back to my casual friends. The whole thing was great. My wife hates Hokit. I mean, Hokit was going to be the most hit or miss. That's sort of the perspective I was looking for, though. Jake, like, how do casual fans care about this? because the appeal of this card is it's so broad,

everyone will tune in. I didn't know if people would. People would fall asleep. If you are, again, if you're just watching the fights, man, it's hard to imagine you didn't have fun watching that. And so, yeah, like, that's the gamble the UFC was making. I'm not the gamble,

but that's part and parcel of this is like, we're going to go broader than we ever have for getting new, like we are making the funnel as wide as possible for who might watch this and we're putting the most exciting stuff we can out here and maybe we'll, maybe we'd catch new fans. Like, maybe your boys watch this for the first time. You said they're back now.

They're like, shit, I forgot how good UFC can be. And there's an apex card next week, so don't have them watch that. But, like, that's the calculus. That's part of play in what they want to accomplish here. We are live. I'm not going to talk shit about how terrible Chandler was. I don't care for Michael Chandler the person.

I have a pretty good amount of respect from the fighter. He's just clearly past it, man. I thought he looked, like I picked Rufi because I thought Chandler looked horrific against Patty. And there you go. I got, let me tell you,

I haven't heard a single person say this. And I don't know that people will say it. And I'm not even sure I believe it in my heart. But at one point tonight, after I was finally done reckoning with it, I thought, Patty Pimble's better than people give him credit for, man. Patty Pimbleau went 25.

You know, Patty Pimblit, he's bigger. He's obviously much bigger, but maybe that's where we go. Maybe when Tuporia gets himself back together, we finally do Patti Pimlet versus Elliott Tuporia. But I, you know, Patty Pimbleau beat the crap out of Michael Chandler. I'm just not, Chandler's taking it on the chin enough tonight. I don't need to pile on them.

Is it not weird that it wasn't on CBS from, Blabom Soros? Super weird. Super weird. There wasn't on CBS. I talked about this during our watch party. I talked to several people this week who assured me that it would not be on CBS. I was like, yeah.

I mean, they say that, but they're saying Super Bowl, all these big numbers, you put it on CBS. Only so many people at Paramount Plus. And they were like, they're not going to do it. And I thought they come, when we got closer, they'd be like, guess what, everybody? bam, and they did not. And so I don't know the reason for that. I think that's a mistake. If that's Barry Weiss or whoever's in charge of the CBS programming,

you know, I think they should have put it there. But yeah, I mean, they could have done anything there. Oh, yeah, I mean, huge. I think they could have done it, man. That's right. We can't pity Michael Chandler because he's going to see us at the top. He's going to be there. Oh

Jay, what do you think they do with Sean If Marab wins the rematch Uh Sean probably fights somebody else And they do That's sort of the thing I think Sean O'Malley is a Peyoteerian fan Because if Maraub beats Piotr

In the trilogy Sean's not getting a title fight Immediately Uh, That'll probably go to Umar So maybe he then gets Corey Sandhagan I don't know, we'll see Um

I think Mike's actually gonna be back in like a little bit So I will get out of here Pretty soon because we've been going about an hour get a couple more questions in and then we'll skiddle because we've, this night is not over press is going on right now

I have no idea what's happening at the presser actually I didn't even check do we have bonuses that have occurred here if we have bonuses let me see let me pull up the old Twitter sphere and see preferably like an Aaron Bronzetter who is usually live tweeting stuff is on Makachev last caucus champion

Hmm Bear with me, guys. It would be better if Mike was here to do. Damn, Gachie taking a picture with his two belts in the Oval Office. Pretty nuts. Man, that's... So there is a video backstage

at the White House of the main event of like the guys watch... Like, it's Sean O'Malley, Alexander Volcanovsky, Rufi, Diego Lopez, and they're just watching it. You're just being like... It's nuts. man, this is what I didn't want to see.

Islamyakov has tweeted. He said, he who exalts himself will be humbled. There's levels in this game. Congrats, Justin, you deserve this belt more than anyone. I feel like you don't need to take that shot at Tuporia. He lost. It is. But I said it immediately.

I'm not saying he is the moat, but I don't know. It's hard for me to think of a fighter who deserves that. belt like that win more than Justin Gachie. Just I think about this. One of my top three or four favorite moments as a fan in history,

Justin Gage is one of my favorite fighters of all time to watch. Not to your talk all the time, but to watch. And couldn't have scripted it better for him. So, Juicy Jake, Jake, Jake, you're insane, my guy.

Thank you so much. Tim Mordage from Juicy Jake. They love the spectacle. Some people did not like the politics. Some people love knockouts, but they all enjoyed the ride and everyone loved Justin. I mean, that's sort of the thing, man. That's sort of the takeaway. It's like, Justin Gachie said it in January. When people are you getting this interim title fight, he's like, because I'm the most exciting fighter in the sport. He said, I think it was the first time he'd ever

said that, which is the thing I've been calling for years. He, but like at the press, he was like, this is the start of the Paramount era. They want to put their best football. forward and I'm their best foot. They know that this event will have more eyeballs than they normally get because it's the first one and they want to close the show with me. He was 100% right. He was 100% right. And then the White House card, having Justin Gatesy on the White House card makes all the

sense in the world. Now, I absolutely thought he was going to lose and that was going to be like tough that the American gets slaughtered in the main event. But you put him in there because win or lose, he's going to be fun. And had he lost, had to Puria, rallied in the fought in the fifth and rallied it still would have been epic it still would have been a fight of the year epic the fact that he does this how do you not get romantic about just like how do you not love it's impossible to like fighting and not like justing gaichi i believe that in

my soul um duke mad duck i still think gamart would run through gaiti way better that's the thing it's totally possible and here's the thing justin gachi gets to call himself the number one lightweight in the world. He gets to. That's the privilege you have when you win the undisputed belt. But I said it for Tupuria. I said it for Charles Oliverer when he first won the belt. I said it for a long time. Like having the belt doesn't make you the best in the world. I might rank Justin Gachey number one lightweight just because like this is such a monumental thing. This is a dude who lost to Max Holloway very recently. You're lost to Charles Olivera. Like if he rematch them, I might pick him to beat Max. Maybe not. I would certainly pick Charles

O'Liver to beat him. He could beat either, though. But, like, he was the best guy on the night. And so, you know, there are plenty of dudes in this weight class who could beat him, but there's no dude in this weight class that he can't beat. There are dudes that he might lose to,

but there's nobody he can't beat. And it's insane. It's so insane. I got to, if you think I was doing that, you couldn't be more possibly confused about who I am and what what I'm about. Let's get one more.

He locked in more, bro. Buddy, I have never once. Justin Gachey literally started the family. It was ridiculous. So never done that. All right, guys. We have gone for an hour. And we got so much stuff to do.

This was an unbelievable night. I'm sorry Mike Heck was not here. Could not join us. Actually, he might be home right now. But I'm going to queue up the music and we're going to get out of here. That was, that was awesome, guys. Big week to come. On to the next one tomorrow, everything else.

Until then, Justin Gachie did it, boys. Justin Gage did it. Love y'all. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Hey, y'all. It's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair. Ever order furniture online and wonder. What if?

Like, what if it doesn't hold up? That sofa was four days old. You should have ordered from Wayfair. With Wayfair, there's no what if. Just style you love and quality you can trust. Visit Wayfair.ca. Wayfair, every style, every home.